OneCoin Review: 100-5000 EUR Ponzi point “cryptocurrency”
There is no information on the OneCoin website indicating who owns or runs the business.
The OneCoin website does have an “about” section, however no information about the company’s ownership structure is revealed.
The company does state however that it
is headquartered in Europe with worldwide operations. We focus on core markets such as South East Asian countries, Europe, India and Africa.
Conspicuously absent is the US.
The OneCoin Terms and Conditions suggests that the company is based out of Bulgaria:
Onecoin follows strictly the regulations of the Electronic Commerce Act of the state of Bulgaria.
We are not in the business of selling your personal information to third parties. Where permitted by the provisions of applicable law, Onecoin may though share such information from time to time with the following third parties:
Any government agency or other appropriate governmental, police, or regulatory authority in state of Bulgaria or elsewhere in order to meet legal security and regulatory requirements.
The OneCoin website domain (“onecoin.eu”) was registered on June 23rd 2014, however the domain registration is set to private. OneCoin’s website itself is hosted out of Bulgaria.
As always, if a MLM company is not openly upfront about who is running or owns it, think long and hard about joining and/or handing over any money.
The OneCoin Product Line
OneCoin has no retailable products or services.
OneCoin affiliate are only able to market affiliate membership to the site itself.
The OneCoin Compensation Plan
The OneCoin compensation plan revolves around affiliates joining and then investing in OneCoin “tokens”.
There are five packages on offer:
- Starter – 100 EUR
- Trader – 500 EUR
- Pro Trader – 1000 EUR
- Executive Trader – 3000 EUR
- Tycoon Trader – 5000 EUR
Commissions are paid out split 60/40, with only 60% of commissions paid out being able to be withdrawn at any given time.
Recruitment Commissions
A 10% commission is paid on the packages purchased by personally recruited OneCoin affiliates.
When a OneCoin affiliate joins the company, for their first 30 days they are paid an additional 10% recruitment commission on any packages purchased by newly recruited affiliates.
This commission is paid out after the thirty-day period, on the condition that the cumulatively, the affiliates recruited spent over 5,500 EUR on packages.
After this period, the regular 10% recruitment commission applies.
Residual Recruitment Commissions
Residual recruitment commissions in OneCoin are paid out using a binary compensation structure.
A binary compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of a two binary teams, left and right:
Positions in the binary represent affiliates who have purchased a package.
Commissions are paid out on the volume generated by affiliates purchasing packages, with 10% of the weaker side paid out.
The OneCoin compensation plan does not mention whether this is a daily, weekly or monthly payout.
Matching Bonus
A Matching Bonus is available on the binary earnings of recruited affiliates, payable down four levels of recruitment.
How many levels a OneCoin affiliate qualifies to receive the Matching Bonus on depends on how much they spent on a package:
- Starter – no bonus available
- Trader – 10% on level 1
- Pro Trader – 10 on levels 1 and 2
- Executive Trader – 10% on levels 1 and 2 and 20% on level 3
- Tycoon Trader – 10% on levels 1 and 2, 20% on level 3 and 25% on level 4
OneLife Point Bonus
OneLife Points are accumulated by OneLife affiliates based on how much they spent on their own package, how many affiliates they’ve personally recruited and how many affiliates joined OneCoin after them (globally).
Points are awarded daily, with the OneCoin compensation plan stating that points can be exchanged ‘for attractive items – as unique holidays, luxury watches and other amazing and exclusive rewards‘.
No further specific information is provided.
Aurum Gold Coins
Bundled with OneCoin packages are “Aurum Gold Coins”.
Aurum Gold Coin is a hybrid currency, based in Dubai and a pioneer in the world of virtual currency.
OneCoin claim that
every Aurum Gold Coin is backed up with 1mg of solid gold.
This gold is physically stored in the gold vault in Dubai.
The amounts of Aurum Gold Coins alloted to each OneCoin package is as follows:
- Starter – 50 coins
- Trader – 250 coins
- Pro Trader – 500 coins
- Executive Trader – 1500 coins
- Tycoon Trader – 2500 coins
I tried to independently verify this but nothing in particular came up for “Aurum Gold Coin”. As such, it appears to be a virtual currency exchange scheme within the OneCoin compensation plan.
The notion that there is a third-party company out there backing a virtual currency that OneCoin are literally giving away with actual gold is rather ridiculous.
Joining OneCoin
Affiliate membership to OneCoin is $30.
Affiliates must purchase a package however if they wish to participate in the MLM side of OneCoin.
This adds an additional 100 to 5000 EUR cost to affiliate membership, depending on which package is purchased:
- Starter – 100 EUR
- Trader – 500 EUR
- Pro Trader – 1000 EUR
- Executive Trader – 3000 EUR
- Tycoon Trader – 5000 EUR
The primary difference between the packages is commission percentages paid out and tokens assigned to an affiliate (see conclusion of this review).
Conclusion
There are three primary component to the OneCoin MLM business opportunity.
The first is a simple recruitment-driven pyramid scheme, backed with a residual binary compensation structure.
Affiliates join OneCoin and are then directly compensated on the recruitment of new affiliates, who must spend money on packages to participate in the MLM opportunity.
The second is the whole Aurum Gold Coins schtick, which appears to be an alternative virtual currency to the OneTokens, and are backed by baloney.
The third and most secretive component is the OneCoin token share scheme.
OneCoin is a new cryptocurrency that can be traded on the OneExchange.
Details of the OneCoin token exchange are kept off the OneCoin website, with even the compensation plan only lightly going into details.
In a nutshell, based on how much an affiliate spends on a package, they are awarded a specific number of OneTokens.
- Starter – 1000 tokens
- Trader – 5000 tokens
- Pro Trader – 10,000 tokens
- Executive Trader – 30,000 tokens
- Tycoon Trader – 60,000 tokens
These tokens are “traded” on what OneCoin refer to as the “OneExchange”.
Masquerading as a crypto-currency, OneCoin’s OneTokens are nothing more than Ponzi points, pegged to nothing more than the rate of new money flowing into the company via affiliates:
The more people join the OneCoin concept, the higher the popularity and value of the currency.
The more popular OneCoin is, the higher the value of the cryptocurrency.
As long as nobody exchanges their OneTokens for cash, OneCoin hold everybody’s money. If money flowing in slows down however, OneCoin implement what they refer to as “splits”.
Basically, everybody’s tokens multiply, which drives down the value of an individual token.
OneCoin are quite secretive about their OneExchange virtual currency trading platform, however one can safely assume ther’re withdrawal limits and restrictions on the amount of tokens an affiliate can “sell” over set periods of time.
In this sense OneCoin functions no differently to any other Ponzi points-based scheme, only they pretend to be involved in crypto-currencies.
In the US at least, OneCoin would easily fall foul of SEC regulation concerning the offering of unregistered securities. This is why the company purportedly does not operate there.
Not that Europe is any more welcoming of such scams, only that the anonymous owners are obviously hedging their bets against getting away with it by registering the company in Bulgaria.
Once new investment in packages stops and the completely arbitrary value assigned OneTokens goes into an irreversible spiral, those running the scheme will simply disappear.
Along with what’s left of everybody’s money.
All you need to know about this one is that Rune Fjororft (sp?) is pimping this scam!
It’s probably Rune Fjortoft (Rune Fjørtoft), a small fish pretending to be a bigger one. A small “serial fish” with 12-13 followers. A.k.a. “mlmpro”, “mlmpronews”.
“Rune Fjørtoft is pimping this” should normally be interpreted as “not very successful program” (I have only seen him in unsuccessful, relatively short lived programs).
There is a lot of information already about the owners online about the Onecoin scam. They are already well known more for launching scams one after another – change the team and relaunch:
– Master Distributor: Sebastian Greenwood (Unaico and Loopium),
– President: Nigel Allan (Brilliant Carbon)
Here are some links for further research: sebastiangreenwoodscam.wordpress.com
They create a company every year and close it after 6 months, spend the money and then move onto the next scam.
Other names connected with this, include Bjorn Thomas, John Ng, Dr Lieven and many more.
This is basically – Scammers United.
Best of luck if you want join Onecoin scam.
Thank you, and very useful, However I like to bring light to tunnel, The Actual Owner Whom are a.k.a representing themselves as Marketers, and lawyer and Distributors ,,,,they actually are the owners, and the financial supporter of ONE COIN is a very famous man,,,, here they are ladies and Gentleman;
A) Mr. Sebastian Greenwood from Sweden a.k.a ( Master Distributor)
B) Dr. Ruja Ignatova a.k.a Legal Adviser ,She actually is the one who dose all the company setup, Bank Accounts, Contract, Money Movement Between BG, Dubai, HK, Malaysia, Indonesia and she actually lives resides in Bulgaria for the past 10 years.
C) John NG the famous financier and the previous owner of BIGCOIN HK, whom Ramped up 150,000,000 USD within 2 years in HK for BIGCOIN.
D) Nigel Allan, wow this one is the pure Scum bag 🙂
I have worked fraud for 30 years, smelled this from first sniff.
Have a chance to put some keyplayers in the soup with some serious charges, limit their international travel and place them on the hustle for legal representation to keep their asses out of jail.
give me a shout we can chat.
It looks like this Ponzi scheme is already falling apart. Internal fight between the management has left Nigel Allan without a position.
Allan from his reputation is much smarter than that. He would have been the brains behind the outfit; It looks like he made his money and has left the ship before it sinks. This now leaves the problems in the hands of Greenwood and Ruja.
Included below is the email the company just sent out in the last 24 hours. It makes it sound like Ruja is in control.
So do you have any knowledge of Ruja as well? Any idea if her and Allen worked together in the past?
Nah,
being sneaky, disloyal and underhanded are seen as positive attributes in the scam business.
Nigel will have a new job before you can say “normal behaviour”
You are right littleroundman, Nigel Allan will find another scam soon. Anyone that works with Nigel Allan should know the future outcome.
A youtube video predicted the fall of Onecoin and team within six months.
If you check out the comments on there, you will find that Nigel Allan has a history of scamming his business partners.
Venzcel Gabor looks like a former victim of Nigel Allan’s scam.
I did some investigations and got this info from one of the company’s marketing materials. Thought I would contribute to the discussion:
Dr. Ruja Ignatova is the Founder, Owner and Chief Operating Officer of OneCoin
Dr. Ruja’s Biography:
Note that I am not a OneCoin affiliate, nor am I promoting it.
I was investigating the claim by a friend of mine that it was backed by Gold. Further to my checks, I found out that OneCoin is in fact NOT backed by gold, but they do have a partner program called the Aurum Gold coin, which you included in the research above.
Although the coin is ‘backed’ by 1mg of gold, in Dubai’s vaults. There is no information about the quality nor certification of the Dubai gold.
Was it mined in an LBMA certified mine? If so, which one? Is it 24K 999.9 currency grade bullion? I am still researching.
Thanks again for your article.
Thanks for the additional information CG.
Ignatova sounds like he knows exactly what he’s doing, which makes a scheme like this all the more dangerous.
What SHE is doing. But I found another list of names on WorlLawdirect.com.
Women can be the head of multi-million dollar crypto-currency Ponzi schemes?!
What a world we live in!
i am unable to understand your shock and awe.
if mary jo white can head the organization that ‘stops the running’ of ponzi schemes, why can’t a woman head an organization ‘that runs’ a ponzi scheme. strong management skills are required for both jobs, only the mindset is different.
mindset is a result of nature [genes] and nurture [social environment], it’s the same for all human beings. women just get lesser opportunity to ‘act’ on their ideas, and when a few manage, it’s like, ‘how can women do this! let’s go into shock and awe!’
Don’t they do “irony” in India ???
The reason Dr Ruja Ignatova was heading up the company and not Sebastian Greenwood and Nigel Allan is that Dr Ruja Ignatova had a clean name. Regardless of what is being published outside, they are all involved.
Not having official shareholding or having his name on paper allowed Nigel Allan to get out without being prosecuted.
I can understand that Dr Ruja Ignatova is a better name to use than well known con-artists like Nigel Allan and Sebastian Greenwood.
Next time Nigel Allan and Sebastian Greenwood do a scam they will again use a different name to front the business. They will be “Employed” or “Distributors”. This seems to be their Modus Operandi.
I painstakingly watched Dr. Ruja’s presentation on OneCoin… absolutely flawed.
The thing that struck me the most, is that this woman’s fascination of bitcoin and crypto currency in general stems from the fact that had she bought Bitcoin for $27 in 2010 instead a pair of shoes, she would be a millionaire now!
This is repeated several times, including with the infamous “1000 bitcoin pizza” story, that she tells in horrible detail, saying that the person who made that purchase is kicking himself now…
This is not true, as we know that “Laszlo” has said: “I was learning OpenCL programming and mining bitcoins with a video card so the pizza was a good deal for me.” – bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109.msg5143603#msg5143603
Dr. Ruja is absolutely incompetent in her presentation of cryptocurrencies, and I imagine she has been fooled by the people running this scam! — or she is in on it, and trying to make a quick buck.
Either way, she is digging herself deeper and deeper everyday that passes with her at the helm of OneCoin.
QUOTE: “I painstakingly watched Dr. Ruja’s presentation on OneCoin… absolutely flawed.” from BitcoinNut
BitcoinNut, it is good to read your feedback.
Listen to the end of the presentation (52 minutes in). This is what they say:
Anyone who promises 80x return on investment in 12 months, does not intend to be around when the time comes to collect. How do you think they will give these kinds of returns.
Based on inside information from the top leaders in the company; the company has done more than €50 million in business turnover. This is based on the number of points that they had accumulated in the Binary.
12 months is approaching fast and that is why key people behind the investment scam like Nigel Allan have already left.
I think it is time to contact the authorities and let them deal with this.
hahaha
You do understand that the example with 80x return, is not payment from the company? it’s based on sell/buy with other people on crypto-exchanges. Not a payment from Onecoin them-self. For this to happen, then coin have to be used.
It’s not like buy upgrade, wait 1 year, get 80x back!
You mean the “OneExchange”, which is owned and operated by…. OneCoin.
Basically OneCoin affiliates invest in tokens on the promise of an implied greater ROI than what they deposited. The tokens are Ponzi points, tacked onto a recruitment-driven scheme to market them.
Money doesn’t multiply merely by getting exchanged.
So again I can see where the histories of allan and greenwood are out there. But does anyone have anything specific on Dr. Ruja?
So far it seems like a no. And so far no one has said they worked together in the past.
As was stated could she have been fooled by allan and greenwood? Is that not a possibility if they have not worked together in the past?
I dont see anyone guaranteeing a 80x times payment. Bitcoin is brought up as the prime example. I would think anyone trying to get a CC off the ground would do this.
The criticisms are fair though. Until they open up the mining for third parties to look at and take part in it cant be seen as a cryptocurrency.
No I was talking about exchanges like cryptsy, btc38, kraken etc. Not the One exchange.
And my next question is, if this is a scam, why have the opened big mining farms and 3 offices? Wouldn’t that be stupid to waste the scammed money on that then?
I have close friends that was on site at the farm launch and start, so they have seen it with there own eyes.
No but the value of a thing is calculated after the demand of it.
Will OneCoin be released for public exchange? I agree, it has to be opened up for third parties.
Comedic evidence in its purest form. Have your friends degrees in Information science or mathematics? Did they know what real mining farm looks like?
It is easy to pull wool over your eyes with tech stuff, if you have no idea what real thing looks like.
And do not get started on offices. You can rent office for few days, put your company name over receptionist’s desk and be gone by the end of weekend. It not like it did not happen before in ponziland.
haha maby not degree in science or mathematics, but I trust their judgement. And of course if you want to do a real big scam you have to go all the way,
That will need to be about “demand in a normal market“, and it can’t be used on any type of product. You can’t use that idea on currencies.
Demand in a market will only affect the price. It won’t affect the value. People can accept highly inflated prices, but that doesn’t mean the product has become more valuable.
A gold coin will not be worth twice as much if people pay twice the price for it. It will still be worth exactly one gold coin. So the value of a gold coin will not be affected by the price.
INTRINSIC VALUE
Gold coins have an intrinsic value, e.g. the cost of mining gold, refining it into high grade quality, minting it as coins, sales and distribution costs. Gold has also been recognized as valuable for more than 5,000 years.
A gold coin will not rise in value if you add additional costs to it, e.g. if you recycle it as scrap metal and mint a new coin out of it. Only the necessary initial costs will add any value. Unnecessary costs will not add anything to the intrinsic value.
That’s where Bitcoin will fail. Mining costs are not really necessary for the function of a currency. The value of a currency can be found in its function rather than in the currency itself, e.g. the function as a legal tender.
Intrinsic value isn’t really necessary for a currency. A $100 note will not be “worth” more if they make it twice as costly to produce, it will still be worth its face value.
You have relatively poor understanding of the relationship between price and value. They are not directly related. The price can be heavily inflated or deflated while the value may remain unchanged.
Mining costs will not add any value to a currency. The value of a currency can be found in its exchange rate in a normal market, that you can exchange it for goods or services or other things of value.
The currency itself will normally not hold any intrinsic value, e.g. a $100 bill will only cost a few cents to produce. It won’t be worth more if you increase the production costs either.
correct me if I’m wrong, but I still think you are wrong. The more demand of a currency will make the price rise as a lesser demand will make it go down.
If you take BTC value as a example, when the world started to find out about it’s existens and people wanted BTC, it went up the roof in price.
Equals the more demand the higher value. It’s the exact thing with gold.
But as I said, correct me if I’m wrong. It’s just my thoughts about it.
But of course the whole deflate and inflate of the currency depends of it’s number in existens. It’s like Germany when the d-mark was high but worth almost nothing.
@Chrille
Your friends took the bait. If enough people take the bait it’s clearly not a waste of money.
I do agree with the stupid sentiment though, as applied to both OneCoin and your friends.
This is quite obviously a Ponzi scheme pegged to points that have no inherent value outside of OneCoin. The only artificial value pegged to the points is the investor funds OneCoin choose to pay out.
That idea is a commercial idea. It can work for some products, e.g. people can be willing to pay a higher price for a “highly sought after product”. People may line up in queue to buy Apple’s new iPhone model.
It can work for some investments too, e.g. people were more eager to buy gold when the prices were rising. But that’s a change in price rather than a change in value.
Investments are typically based on expectations, e.g. people were typically more willing to pay a higher price for gold when they expected the prices to continue to rise.
But if you look at it this way instead, hypothetically speaking, if this isn’t a scam and there will be a Onecoin, a real cryptocurrency to useA coin with many of the advantages that bitcoin is missing.
Like its traceability, safety, non open source until all coins are made etc. This in turn can possibly makes the world bank system to recognizes this as a legal currency in which they are willing to use.
From that perspective, the idea of Onecoin brilliant, if it is legit!
The earth will have one cryptocurrency in the future, that are accepted by all the systems, the only question is which and what is required. Bitcoin has too many drawbacks, that makes that it will never be 100% accepted, it will probably never die out either, but I don’t think it’s going to be the big one.
That is possible?
@Chrille
When you establish a business on Ponzi point fraud, whatever you develop is always going to be bogged down with Ponzi ROI liabilities.
You can’t just “look at it this way” and ignore that foundation.
If Bitcoin worked (and no one seems to have a problem with it) then a variation of it will work as well.
Time will tell with OneCoin. If not OneCoin then I will look for the next currency.
Yes the sword is double-edged. The argument is solid. You keep the mining closed so you can control the growth but then others will say that it is just the excuse to conceal the fact that no mining is being done.
At some point the doors have to be opened and that cant be after all the coins are mined.
@Chrille. Have your friends seen the mining operation itself? The servers if I can ask? Have they met the tech guys and programmers?
Not one attached to a Ponzi scheme.
No, the business model will. And it’s rotten.
Anyone who tells you otherwise has already invested and wants your money.
What if a 350 ton, easily recoverable pure gold meteorite landed in Nevada. What would that do to the intrinsic value of every other gold coin and bullion bar in existence?
It wouldn’t have much effect, neither on the price of gold nor on the value. 350 ton is less than 1/10 of the yearly demand, and about 0.2% of the total over-the-ground supply of gold.
It could potentially have brought the prices down 10% for a short period of time, but the long term effect would have been de minimis.
How about a 350,000,000,000,000 ton pure gold meteorite that landed in Nevada. What effect would that have on the “intrinsic value” of gold.
You are talking about price, Before you were talking about something you called intrinsic value. So are you now saying that price and intrinsic value are the same?
Read more: businessdictionary.com/definition/intrinsic-value.html#ixzz3UxrYuNpy
No big ideas that were attached to pyramid/ponzi financing model ever succeed. Not a one.
Also, if idea is great, it would make returns from its implementation in long time, not a short one. So expecting immediate reliable returns from any good investment is ridiculous.
And even best idea made reality would never be able to cover financing cost from ponzi/pyramid attached to it. It does not need to be attached to ponzi/pyramid.
You will always find investors willing to take reasonable high risk on expected high return without going overboard. That why we have established private investment system. And it works great.
That’s more than 200 million times the current over-the-ground supply of gold, a 26.2 km cube. It would have affected both the intrinsic value and the price of gold.
350,000 billion ton / 7 billion people = 50,000 ton gold per person.
I used value and price to show two different aspects.
You can increase the value of something by adding more value to it, e.g. you can upgrade an old house and make it become more valuable. But the price doesn’t need to follow the value, it can be affected by the demand in the market.
How could the gold meteorite have changed the intrinsic value of a gold coin that had already been minted? It couldn’t. Why? Because value is not intrinsic to begin with.
What IS intrinsic to gold is its material properties. Its value is always subjective, just like every other commodity, or currency… bit coins included.
what hoss! are you trying to kill the world this weekend! 🙂
OneCoin is the best opportunity. All current investors will become millionaires in 3 years.
Owner is the business women of the year. She is guiding us forward.
Why you all jealous? Come and visit our mining site in Hong Kong.
Don’t think everything is US is not the only legit companies. It’s poor thinking mentality.
One would think that mining site would locate the hardware where energy and bandwidth is cheap, rather than Hong Kong where it’s neither. Heck, it’s probably cheaper to run it out of Bulgaria than Hong Kong.
So clearly you’re not worried about your admin wasting your money, not to mention a coin nobody gives a heck (except you).
But it’s your money. You decide where you want to flush it.
And nobody would demand it because nobody would use it. The only way you’ll generate demand is by lying about its “potential”, and the potential doesn’t exist without demand. It’s bootstrap at best, fraud at worst.
It isn’t about the value of one coin, but about the average value of over-the-ground supply of gold. 350 ton wouldn’t have affected the average value much, but it could have affected the price short term.
One gold coin will not rise in value if you add unnecessary costs to it. It will be affected by the average value of all the other over-the-ground supply of gold.
Bitcoin will fail there. Mining of Bitcoins isn’t a necessary cost that will add any value to the currency itself.
They are in Honk Kong because it is relatively out of reach from US regulators.
I read recently that even people who were at the heart of Bitcoin rise believe that almost all current Bitcoin mining operations are becoming ponzis. It is also true about other “coin” mining.
And nobody jealous. And definitely nobody is going to become millionaire from your scam except from its owner.
I don’t think we were talking about gold coins as “consumables” (goods or services)?
Gold in the form of bars and coins will normally be seen as an “assets class” more than a “consumable”.
You have derailed from the initial comments (e.g. post #28) about price versus value. I pointed out that value and price could be unrelated to each other, and used gold coins and $100 notes as examples.
Your initial comment deserved to be “derailed” from. You attributed “intrinsic value” to gold coins because there is a cost to produce them, while ignoring the fact that there is also cost to produce bit coins.
In actual fact neither can properly be said to have “intrinsic value.”
Do you know anything about OneCoin before commenting about it?
You all have a feeling that you people in the west are the most genius people alive on this planet. Asian are better than you all.
You can’t use “it deserved to be derailed from” as an excuse.
The initial discussion was about whether the demand for OneCoin would determine its value as an investment object. I pointed out that price and value can be relatively unrelated factors.
The fact that he’s paying something for OneCoin doesn’t mean the coins are worth something. People can be willing to pay for completely worthless items if they believe they can make a profit on the purchase.
well this is a fresh ponzi argument! somebody please update the ponzi excuses handbook 101!
Time will prove you all wrong. OneCoin is the next BitCoin. Our owners are the best.
Time doesn’t negate a business model.
The only effect time has on a Ponzi scheme is to bring on the inevitable collapse.
are you innocent or dumb?
read through all the comments, to get an idea about ‘your’ owners.
tell us, Why your owners are the ‘Best’. c’mon, you can do it!
don’t make Empty Statements.
Whatever it is, if it can be bought and sold for a profit then the item is not worthless.
Do you know what a Ponzi scheme is? You only know to call everything Ponzi scheme Ponzi scheme. That too by using a fake name. your writing is nothing for us. don’t think you decide the fate of every companies in this world. onecoin company will take legal action against you. Asia will beat America soon.
Lot of speculations there. But if that’s what OneCoin had taught you, it is doomed. After all, OneCoin is not HQ’ed in Asia… but Bulgaria.
I was talking about “believing in a profit”.
A virtual currency will be worthless in itself in a normal market. But that doesn’t prevent it from having a function as an internal currency in a business opportunity, where people can invest in it with the expectation that it eventually will become a new Bitcoin and rise in value from a few cents up to thousands of dollars.
In ZeekRewards, people invested up to $10,000 per affiliate in worthless sample bids. The fact that people could make a profit didn’t make those sample bids become “valuable”.
Value can be completely unrelated to the price people pay for something. It can be completely unrelated to profit too.
lol. scammer meltdowns when exposed = always funny.
Huh? Wha? Bit Coin is a virtual currency and its convertible and trading under normal market conditions at $256 fiat. By comparison the Euro is trading at $1.06 fiat.
1 Bitcoin equals
2093.59 Norwegian Krone
So send me all your worthless bit coins, Euros, Dollars and Krone.
Jeeeeeeeeez and you wonder why you need to be derailed?
@Joseph
Do you?
Claiming OneCoin isn’t a Ponzi scheme because “Asia will beat America soon” is cute, but your nationalism is wasted here.
Try addressing OneCoin’s Ponzi scheme business model chief.
I was still talking about the OneCoin currency. It’s traded inside a network, and it doesn’t have any real value outside that network.
Bitcoin has a relatively low activity as a currency, or at least it had low activity when I asked people about it in 2014 in another thread. Wikipedia estimated daily retail transactions to be about 5,000 bitcoins per day (January 2015). That’s appr. $1.3 million per day.
Bitcoin will probably not have any long term value. A currency will get its value from being commonly accepted and being used as a transaction method by a huge number of people. Bitcoin isn’t there yet, and it probably won’t get there either in its current version.
If Global Coin Reserve is not a scam, why do you say OneCoin is a scam? please explain if you can.
Sorry who said anything about GCR?
This article is about OneCoin. Any further attempts to derail will be marked as spam.
Okay sir. I’m sorry.
can you tell me when I will lose my money in OneCoin?
when [or if] you will lose money and how much you will lose, depends on two factors:
– how long the scam lasts
– how many people you recruit under yourself
if you recruit enough people, and the scam runs long enough to pay you, hey! you may be a net winner.
but some of the people you recruit under you [family/friends/coworkers] may lose money TO YOU.
if this is acceptable to you, you may continue with your cavalier attitude.
When new investors stop investing and the invested funds run out.
But sir, there are billions of people in this world right? Company is bringing in more and more people day by day.
And even existing people are investing more. Like, I invested 3 times. So how will it end?
This is a common Ponzi fallacy, as not everyone on the planet is interested in participating in Ponzi scams.
Like I said, when new investor funds slow down and the funds in reserve run out. The same as any other Ponzi scheme.
But sir, we don’t know if it’s ponzi scheme or not.
They say it’s big company and in dubai gold reserve will come and all. Owners are big people.
How can they cheat us? I don’t think it will happen.
Great. Now try to get your money back. Throwing your money away is the easy part.
It’s the Ponzi points model, as used by Zeek Rewards, attached to a cryptocurrency. Of course it’s a Ponzi scheme.
Affiliates invest in points (tokens), and according to how many points they have are then paid out a ROI if they cash out.
This ROI is funded by newly invested affiliate funds, making OneCoin a Ponzi scheme.
What they say is irrelevant. They’ll say anything to get your money.
Look at the business model, that’s all that matters here. New affiliate funds flow in and are used to pay off existing investors.
I buy a dozen soups from a whole seller. If I have to get money, someone should buy from me right? At a higher rate.
If that’s a ponzi scheme, everything in this world is a ponzi scheme right?
It isn’t, and you’re wasting my time.
If OneCoin start selling soup from wholesalers, your derail attempt might be relevant. Seeing as they don’t, it’s not.
No sir, I’m just saying.
I’m buying something and selling it to someone else. That’s simple business right. That’s what happening in this world. People buy and sell, sometimes makes profits, not loss.
OnCoin is a revolution in the global market. People will come and buy it because it will be good for the future. Who knew in 2009 that BitCoin would be so successful?
That’s all very well, but has nothing to do with investing in Ponzi points and getting a ROI on those points, paid out of newly invested affiliate funds.
As per its business model, OneCoin is a Ponzi scam. Period.
Not in OneCoin you’re not. You buy something, then if someone else (recruited by you) buy something you get “commission”. You don’t sell him anything.
At least get your own story straight before you attempt to use it as “rebuttal”, else you end up looking scatter-brained.
You all are very knowledgeable people. Why government taking no action then?
Will we all lose our money? what should we do now? Please tell.
You’d have to ask the government of… Bulgaria is it? Not exactly known for tackling Ponzi fraud.
Of course OneCoin being registered there (even if in name only) is no co-incidence.
Do whatever you want. BehindMLM isn’t here for personal investment advice.
what is the refund policy of onecoin? try asking for a refund.
since the ‘owners’ are such ‘big people’, you refund should not hurt them.
Then why am I paying $9.99 for my behindmlm gold membership?
Shhhhhhhhh. The first rule of BehindMLM gold membership is that you…
OneCoin said from the beginning that the coins were worth nothing just like any cryptocurrency.
No you do not have to bring in any members actually. In terms of the leaders nigel allen was let go and so far on this board no one has connected ruja to anyone in terms of a sorted past.
Even the link on youtube that was referenced has been taken down.
Money can be made with the MLM structure and I have no problem with that.
OneCoin talks about short and long term strategy. Many act as if this has not been discussed with the company.
Other CCs start because they want to be just like Bitcoin so what is wrong with OneCoin saying the same thing.
@Joseph That being said OneCoin needs to open up its mining to outside verification and soon or it will crash and be seen as a ponzi scheme.
@Boris “Also, if idea is great, it would make returns from its implementation in long time, not a short one.” OneCoin talks about a 1-3 year plan.
By convincing people they’re buying something that’s currently worth nothing, and will likely to continue worth nothing… or it may go up a little in value… or a lot.
But who buys into a cryptocoin that nobody uses? At least some merchants take Bitcoin, and exchanges take Dogecoin… and maybe Litecoin. But anything else? Meh.
One to three years is really short-term implementation.
Most startups are hoping just to develop idea to sell it to larger company in three to five years. And this is not even startup.
Even at best, onecoin, is a speculative investment. And in US you can not have MLM with any kind of investment. So money can not be made legally with MLM structure here at all.
(Ozedit: Any further non-MLM related derail attempts will be marked as spam.)
I smell fake Dr. ( Dr. Ruja Ignatova). For somebody who has Dr. degree from Oxford she has almost zero Internet presence other than this “MLM”. How likely is that?
And if you check her G+ page it said she “attended Oxford University”. This is not the same at all with all claims of Dr. degree.
You can take one year undergraduate study at Oxford and legally claim “attended Oxford University”.
If you check her guest German LinkedIn page you will see sligtly more. “Independent Coursework Harvard Negotiation Course at Harvard University”.
Again, possible one course in top University. How to check its validity? Unknown.
Should be she listing her top degree over one independent study course on LinkedIn? Definitely. Could she just taken it online? Somebody with better knowledge should answer.
———————————–
Now I had to seat through her Interview to 34th minute to get the some info.
They are not selling cryprocoins, just the right to mine one coin. So this is “MLM” that has zero product and they are selling speculation that they may once have a product that will have speculative value. So they are selling speculation of speculative investment.
I have zero confidence that her degree is real or she just did not assumed identity of real Ruja Ignatova who has some papers back in 2005, but I have 100% confidence that this is not going to fly with US regulators.
She also have book on personal development. But it is conveniently available in Chinese only.
totally. this woman has too impressive a biography to be true.
she finished her law education in 2 years instead of 5. then she went and got a doctorate [subject not revealed]. then she has studied at oxford. and to keep it fair, she studied at harvard also.
she worked for mckinsey&company, and they fell so hard for her, they offered her a partnership!
moreover she ‘agrees’ with ‘bill gates’, y’know, like how peers agree with each other ! 🙂
and her book! did you say it is in ‘chinese’ boris? i didn’t find that. but if it is true, then a bulgarian/german lady writing a chinese book while agreeing with bill gates, suggests her gene’s are of an alien variety.
there is lot of info on this FB page, along with photos, gushy mushy boggle eyed reportage from her fans:
facebook.com/766500173402431/photos/a.836258183093296.1073741828.766500173402431/905216542864126/
She’s extremely vague about her education and work.
If a part of her story is correct, she may have passed the first “Staatsexamen”.
If part of her story is correct she may have failed her first Staatsexamen…or never have taken it at all.
From the tumblr page:
She never finished her law education. “She quickly realized that she didn’t like laws”, after 2.5 year university education, teaching law, etc. 🙂
Her book?
At least she worked for McKinsey.
mckinsey.com/insights/financial_services/at_a_crossroads_corporate_banking_in_eastern_europe
Basically during her interview, interviewer showed her “book”. It looked Chinese and he said it was in Chinese. But since I do not read Chinese, it may as well being some random book in Chinese language.
rujaignatova.tumblr.com
I am not the one to call for orthographic mistakes, but come on. When you have worked for McKinsey & Company and are a graduate of Oxford, you do not “work for” the banks while you are consulting them, you “work with” the banks. The same way you can not sit in two chairs at the same time.
———————————————————-
Also you want me to believe
cryptoreal.com
This off the shelf script website that was registered less than a year ago belongs to the fund with 100 million dollars?
Or as website explains it is not Investment Trust/Trusts at all. It just represent some Honk Kong cryptocurrency called BigCoin which supposed get to 100 million dollars “capitalization”.
This lady does not know how to stop bullshitting.
@Glenn
Consultant = employee?
Please read the latest on onecoin.eu which in reality owned by Sebastian Greenwood, and John NG, in Fact Dr. Ruja Ignatova is Sebastian lover 🙂
Dubai event is goign to be hosted by our Guest Speaker:
Staffan Liback, Welcome
Fabrice Kerhervè OneCoin comp plan
Steinkeller brothers Vision
Read more at:
(Ozedit: Link to affiliate marketing blog removed) Link to webinar: onecoin.enterthemeeting.com/m/H4BY4CFA Time: 11pm Hong Kong time
So they began to run out of ROI funds, and now are looking to milk Conligus affiliates.
Conligus is a Ponzi/pyramid hybrid in and of itself, and wasn’t it only a short time ago another scheme attached itself to it?
Guess there’s a bunch of Ponzi admins working in cahoots here.
That’s my impression too, but from the MCoin thread (ByXpress MCoin Coinsrace AdOnXpress), and from the LEOcoin post there.
You will probably find a lot of people with positions in multiple crypto currency schemes at the same time, e.g. as “leaders” in one scheme and as “members” in other schemes.
It can be compared to Carlos Costa having a position or an “investment” in BBOM. It doesn’t need to be as an “ordinary member / investor”, but he could still have some type of “position”.
i think it’s high time, that a list of perpetual ponzi players, be made available on the internet, and sites such as behindmlm, patrickpretty.com, realscam.com and a host of other similar sites.
we see some top players going from scheme to scheme shamelessly, like faith sloan, sann rodriques, hitesh juneja, and hundreds of others.
when the public sees these names, in the scheme they are about to join, it will be like a prewarning system – oh sloan is here! surely a ponzi!
we can beat fantano mafioso at this ‘blacklist’ game!
Exactly, Dr. Ruja Ignatova (fake doctor) is leader here, and member of BigCoin scheme that have to caught on yet.
This is a very dangerous game. You can not imagine number of lawsuits, google delist requests and so on against blog that will post such list.
Ponzi players are like snakes. So far they are biting mad when you just point to them. Imagine what they would do if you actually step on them, all of them?
For All of you, I like to share some information with you:
Dr. Ruja and Sebastian Greenwood met up in Indonesia, while Sebastian was COO of Bigcoin that was ran by John NG, former Global Director of Sitealk.
Dr.Ruja was the Master Mind behind helping to hide over 280 Million USD for John NG, in countries like Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, and few other one that If I mention, They would know my Identity.
She also did loads of legal work for John NG, but it get sweeter, Sebastian Greenwood and Dr. Ruja are lovers and that is the reason his wife from Sweden divorced her.
And he actually with John NG are behind the whole operation of ONECOIN, it is a exact copy of BIGCOIN in HK.
Nigel is Sebastian Best friend, and based on my knowledge they have so far gathered over 120 Million Euro from ONECOIN operation and at the present time.
Dr. Ruja and Sebastian live in Bulgaria. this will continue. I will add more post in a very near future, Stand by guys.
In which countries is she allowed to practice law, if any?
Personally from what we saw so far, I highly doubt that she has law degree (maybe in Bulgaria) or any high degree.
More believable is that she made up schemes and used local shady lawyers to cover her illegal activity.
Serial schemers rarely innovate. They just reload the same scam over and over or move it from one country to another under different name.
From what little can be found on Bigcoin, I have to doubt that this statement can be true.
To me it looks like Nigel is still involved in the company…
at least he still is promoting it.
Recently I have found myself researching the legitimacy of Onecoin as my husband and I were contacted by an affiliate via social media and I would like some insite on a few things.
Onecoin claims to be the future of crypto currency because it will be placed on a visa/master card and the simplicity of needing to carry around cash and tons of cards in your wallets will no longer be an issue.
Technology is on the rise and so it would make sense to create something as such.
Is this crypto currency really the future if a group of people truly have perfected the “bitcoin” idea in a way that would not only be successful but sustainable long term as well?
Claims that they are in the process of doing business with well known fortune 500 companies are being made.
Apps like Snapchat have recently added a feature where money is easily transferable from user to user- using card information. Is crypto currency similar to this idea??
@mari123
The concept of a cryptocurrency might work, but not when it’s attached to a Ponzi points business model.
Anything OneCoin tell you serves no other purpose to get you to invest funds, so that an earlier investor can withdraw it.
That’s what separates them fromn otherwise legitimate cryptocurrencies (within the confines of existing laws).
Also, Onecoin claims that within months the value per coin has gone from $.10 to $.50 and is continuing to rise.
I would just like an explanation of what this really means if schemes only increase price rather than value of products.
It means people are still investing in the scheme, and withdrawals haven’t exhausted their reserve yet.
The Ponzi points model encourages re-investment and issuing of monopoly money, this prolongs the inevitable collapse but eventually it will happen.
Commercial value / investment value can be about what you reasonably can expect to sell something for in a normal market.
Liquidity will be about how easy it will be to sell or to “convert to cash” in other ways.
They all claim to be the future of something. They will most likely fail.
The claim about being placed on a VISA / MasterCard is most likely false and misleading. VISA and MasterCard can only handle real currencies, and none of the crypto currencies have been recognized as that.
The part about “normal market” is important.
Your investment will be rather illiquid if you only can sell it to other members of a network marketing opportunity. The investment will be worthless if the recruitment of new investors slows down.
Bitcoin managed to get accepted by multiple merchants because of lower costs and no chargeback options. But it has failed to be accepted by users in general.
Thank you for your valid points and insite @Oz and M_Norway.
@mari123
We have reviewed several MLM crypto currency opportunities. None of them have been about long term investment.
The investment component will simply make it easier to recruit people, i.e. recruiters can use the argument “You don’t need to recruit anyone or sell anything” or arguments about “Watch your money grow”.
UFUN UToken promised 10,000% ROI to early investors over 4 years.
NOLINK://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/ufunclub-review-utoken-digital-currency-investment/
LEOcoin used photos of Danny Alexander MP in marketing.
I tried to use the “Search” function on this website, searching for “Bitcoin mining”. I found at least 2 other virtual currencies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies
Anyone with the right skills can issue a digital currency.
It can be compared to issuing bonds with zero interest rate, no real security behind them and thus no real obligation for the issuer to pay back the amount.
This means that the issuer who succeeds in selling his currency to other users, can earn a great deal of actual money at the expense of his users.
Those crypto currencies are a hype. Look at Bitcoin: wealthy one moment, wealth gone within minutes, because of the insane price fluctuations.
Let’s keep telling each other that it will save you from the downfall of Euro and Dollar and the sheep believe it.
The newest one has just surfaced, Crypto888, online casino with….yea right, their very own crypto currency..
When you’re looking at investments, it can be wise to separate between PRICE and VALUE, and try to identify some “real world value factors” you can identify clearly.
PRICES can more easily be affected or “manipulated” in the short term, e.g. “pump and dump” in the stock market, financial bubbles, the price of products (some products may sell better if the price is high enough to make the product feel more “exclusive” and “less affordable”).
VALUE is the long term factor, e.g. a house can rise in value because of many factors. You can upgrade the house itself. The neighborhood can be upgraded and affect the overall value. The infrastructure in that area can be upgraded.
A house can also decrease in value, e.g. because of lack of jobs in the whole district.
VIRTUAL CURRENCIES
A currency will get its value from being commonly accepted as a medium of exchange and as a method to temporarily store value, and that it has a relatively stable exchange rate towards other commonly accepted currencies.
The “commonly accepted medium of exchange” should preferrably be about normal trade in a normal market. The more limited uses the currency has the lower the “real world value” will be.
BITCOIN
Bitcoin has mostly attracted miners and “speculants”, people hoping to profit from the currency itself. It hasn’t been commonly accepted in trade by ordinary consumers. It has been accepted by some merchants, but not as a primary currency. It has primarily been accepted in “black markets”.
All in all, the “real world value” is currently low. The users themselves have actually lowered the “real world value”, but the price is currently high.
VIRTUAL CURRENCY + NETWORK MARKETING
Virtual currency + network marketing should automatically translate to be a type of fraud. The primary function of network marketing is to pay participants for the recruitment of other participants.
The currency itself won’t hold any “real world value”, its value will be about how attractive it can be to investors on a temporary basis. People can make real money on the currency itself if they can sell it at a higher price to other investors. They can also earn recruitment based commissions if they recruit other investors.
A virtual currency can be sold if you can get people to believe it will rise in price and value, e.g. that it eventually will become a commonly accepted medium of exchange outside the network itself.
“SOCIAL PROOFS”
“Social proof” is about arguments used to mislead people, e.g. people may look at how “successful” something has been in the past and accept it as a “proof” that it also will be successful in the future.
“Social proofs” will mostly affect the short term PRICE, e.g. people can be willing to pay a high price because they expect that others will pay an even higher price when new functions are added in the future.
People can pay a higher price if it looks like the project is being organized by qualified people. Sometimes that idea is correct, but most often it isn’t.
If you can detect many “social proofs” but the “real world value” seems to be low, then you should probably stay away from the investment or product (as an investor or consumer).
But it will be different if you know that you’re joining a recruitment based opportunity and your intention is to recruit other investors or consumers. Those “social proofs” may actually be needed to make other people believe in the investment or product.
The primary function of the OneCoin network seems to be about “operating a network marketing system, where investors can be paid for the recruitment of other investors”.
Virtual currencies can be created out of thin air. It will only require an initial investment in some software to manage some virtual balances and to gradually increase the price.
It means that more money can be invested in marketing efforts and recruitment rewards, efforts to make the scheme grow.
It seems to me that the primary function of the network is to sell cheaply “minted” Onecoins at many multiples of what it cost to “produce” them and it is so profitable that mega incentives can be paid to anyone who brings in new buyers.
Most financial institutions do not classify Bitcoin or other digital currencies as “currencies”.
Money has 3 primary functions:
1. Medium of exchange (in trade).
2. Store of value.
3. Units of accounting.
A company cannot mix virtual currencies with real currencies in financial statements. Any amount stored as bitcoin must be listed as “goods” or “commodities” or other relevant unit, as something that can be sold in the future in exchange for money.
NOLINK://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Classification
Bank of China:
“Not a currency, but a target for investments”.
Financial institutions like VISA / MasterCard or banks cannot mix virtual currencies with real currencies either, so bitcoins or other virtual currencies will need to be traded through “other channels” than financial institutions.
Many of the claims made by companies selling virtual currencies can simply be ignored. It’s highly unlikely that VISA or MasterCard will accept payments in OneCoin or any other virtual currency. It’s highly unlikely that normal merchants will accept it as a primary currency.
PONZI SCHEME DISPUTE
Bitcoin is not considered to be a Ponzi or pyramid scheme, but that doesn’t mean all the other virtual currencies will go clear.
NOLINK://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Ponzi_scheme_dispute
All the network marketing currencies I have looked at have clear signatures of being schemes.
the world bank has opined that bitcoin is not a ponzi, so has the mecca of banking, switzerland. several leading world economists however, hold the view that bitcoin is a ponzi which will collapse to a zero value.
bitcoin is not catching on in the ‘retail segment’, it’s acceptability is still quite marginalized. i think, if it does not ‘take off’ as a popularly used cryptocurrency, it may fade away in value and die?
it’s clear the world needs a strong internationally accepted cryptocurrency, bitcoin may go down in history as ‘the one which almost got there’.
but, onecoin etc are like cheap chinese replicas of the ‘real thing’, and merely an excuse for a ponzi scheme. every second ponzi wants a ride on the crypto currency fad train!
there’s no way such a currency will have any value outside of the participants of the scheme. such currencies need to be filed away, in the round file at the bottom of your desk.
The primary function is to attract money from passive investors and income opportunity seekers.
The cryptocurrency itself doesn’t really have any “real world function” or any “real world value”, but investors can be tricked to believe it will get those functions in the future.
Since the crypto currency only is traded inside a closed network, the PRICE can easily be manipulated to look like an increased value of the investment.
Dr Ruja Ignatova was and may still be affiliated with Kristian Helgesen and Jarl Moe (aka Jarl Adelsten) , two notorious con artists on the run and believed to be in SE Asia.
Anyone want to try and verify her “doctorate?” I tried seeing if we could verify it, but the universities seem to require a form and that the person you are requesting information on will be informed with permission being required.
It’s ridiculous that the universities make it so difficult for people to verify credentials. There should be a roster.
I was unable to find that affiliation?
Jarl Moe and Kristian Helgesen can be involved in many different things, but the information I found was too vague to connect them to Ruja Ignatova.
Sebastian Greenwood was involved in Loopium which recruited Jarl Moe and Kristian Helgesen to be investors, except those two instead of shoring up funds for Loopium, redirected investments into their shell company accounts. During this time, Ruja Ignatova was legal council to Loopium up until the point of liquidation.
The connection is Sebastian Greenwood and Loopium
jarlmoescam.com/jarl-moe-in-the-newspapers/
facebook.com/OneCoin1/posts/555297707937675
@Blue
The information is too thin.
I tried to google “Ruja Ignatova Loopium”. I can find the World Law Direct thread (3 posts), the 3 LinkedIn profiles, this thread, and a Chinese blog. All in all 6 search hits.
The Chinese blog cites WorldLawDirect, so it’s at best a secondary source. Meh. Not much here.
Bloomberg don’t know anything about OneCoin. Must be irrelevant. 🙂
NOLINK://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/relationship.asp?personId=98233704&privcapId=42159034&previousCapId=42159034&previousTitle=Clever%20Synergies%20Investment%20Fund
In 2009 Ruja’s merely a “local business consultant”… Wrote an article that doesn’t say much.
NOLINK://www.mckinsey.com/insights/financial_services/at_a_crossroads_corporate_banking_in_eastern_europe
She was a co-author, IIRC.
Jarl Moe and Kristian Helgesen have probably been involved in many things. One of them seems to have been involved in T5PC “The 5 Percent Community” in the early 2000’s, a Norwegian pyramid or Ponzi scheme.
Other than that, they seem to have been involved in investment scams (but not MLM or NWM), “tax advisors”, Forex trading and potentially gambling. I’m not sure about the last one, the term “involved in” isn’t very accurate.
You may not find a quick Google search on the association of Ruja and Loopium, but there are legal documents with her name and business activity.
You need to pull real files, not just do a quick search.
She assisted in the liquidation process of Loopium through Cyprus, possibly WaveCrest (Financial platform), and the registration of an extremely short lived limited liability company called “Zooperium” (Fees paid by her) which was an attempt at a Loopium rebirth.
Plus, Ruja and Sebastian are linked at the hip anyway. With Sebastian being “CEO” of Loopium, of course Ruja will be around to weasel in some “legal expertise.”
The LLC was out of Gibraltar.
There will come a big cover on Dr. Ruja in Forbes Magazine any time soon
onecoiner When will the article come out? Forbes magazine – I am assuming not in the USA. Is there a Euro based Forbes?
You can not trust everything that her Facebook page says. She is a habitual liar.
Is Forbes really doing a cover story on Dr. Ruja?
Has anyone seen this or know when it may come out?
or if they can fake it on a website that has templates to do that sort of thing?
funny.pho.to/forbes/
I highly doubt Forbes is doing an article (and a cover feature at that).
Did you see those facebook photoshoot pictures? Amateur hour. It would be done in a controlled studio. Think of the humilation Forbes would get if they find out they featured a Ponzi scammer.
She is not revolutionary and every website that exists about her was made by her on free sites with no content; except the same recycled lies about her education and doctorate.
Until someone shows us proof that she did in fact receive a PhD through Oxford that passed the bar (which bar?) and has a legal right to call herself Doctor, then she is just a scamming thief in my book.
I am not one to jump to conclusions or even bash an mlm company. I am involved in some that others may also consider to be scams but for me they are working.
So we can agree to disagree. But I have also been scammed and have had to learn the hard way to make sure to do a better job with my due diligence.
When looking into a company and deciding whether it has potential or not I believe all of the information should be disclosed…good or bad. People then know up front what they are dealing with.
I have been approached with the Onecoin opportunity. Im not here to bash but to reveal what I have found out during the course of my due diligence.
I was also given the Forbes Magazine cover that is being pushed as proof that this is a great company. And Im not hear to say whether it is or isnt… just to reveal what I have found.
I called Forbes and was told that there has only been 3 woman featured on the international Forbes covers. I then specified that I was inquiring about the May 2015 Bulgarian cover. And the Onecoin owner Ruja Ignatova.
The woman at Forbes insisted that she was not on the cover. She then asked me to email the cover so they could verify if it was infact real. here is the response from Forbes:
As you can see from my correspondence with Forbes… Onecoin paid them to write about the company by taking out and purchasing ad space.
Now what Im having a hard time understanding is why they would do that if they were not trying to hype this up. But like I said, I am not here to pass judgement …just to inform others.
Thank you very much for forwarding that correspondence along Jodi, much appreciated.
ONECOIN IS A SCAMMM.. I WAS USING MY ACCOUNT FOR 2 MONTHS AND NOW I’M NOT ABLE TO OPEN IT.
WHEN CONTACTED THEY SAID, IT’S BECAUSE OF TECHNICAL ERROR. 4 DAYS NOW, THEY HAVE SCAMMED ME. SPREAD THE WORD.
Here is the cover for May. It’s Notch (Markus Persson) from Minecraft! Not Ruja.
forbesbulgaria.bg/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Cover_49.jpg
Did you see the cover they posted on the onecoin facebook page? Such a bad photoshop and negative space.
facebook.com/OneCoin1/photos/a.518173371650109.1073741827.500131093454337/649451415188970/?type=1&theater
See it before they take it down!
Hi all, I am Bulgarian and I was approached to join One coin about a month ago.
Well, I didn’t. But I did a research and it did not sound serious to me at all.
I want to tell you that on the 11.04.2015 appeared in the news that Ruja bought a house in Sofia for 4.2 million euros. It is in the news only because the house used to be a very famous restaurant.
Also this “business lady” of the year thing is not serious at all. There is such an event but it is just a PR thing.
how is this different then buying a stock that gains or loses value?
in other words a stock (which is legal to trade) gains value only because people are buying it and loses value when they sell.
@Justin
Stocks don’t take newly invested funds and use it to pay out >100% ROIs, whilst simultaneously claiming not to do that.
Ponzi schemes are illegal the world over for a reason.
So what happened at the super exciting May 15th Dubai Event?
Their facebook hasn’t been updated since the 13th and people are now complaining that the credit card processor on the site isn’t working for about a week now.
The sheeps are now asking when they are going to be able to sell their positions.
I’m going to start making popcorn.
this is what was posted on the official onecoin FB page on may 12th, 2015 :
the beginning of the end , Begins!
Nothing is going to end. Dubai Event marked the beginning of the new phase of OneCoin.
3000 members celebrated with OneCoin success and the birth of the AGC Gold Coin.
OneCoin will be more popular than BitCoin in the coming years.
If BitCoin can be successful, OneCoin can also be. No point in being jealous folks.
yes yes why not.
meanwhile is the payment system upgraded and working again?
just saw the photos on the onecoin FB page. what’s with the shiny suits and golden gowns, i had to put on a pair of safety goggles!
How do you know that?
OneCoin is currently only traded among members inside a network. That makes it similar to monopoly money, a currency that only can be used inside a game.
There’s no significant difference between OneCoin and monopoly money. The only difference is that some people seem to believe that OneCoin has some value, or that it eventually will get some value from something.
We can probably live with it. 🙂
More and more merchants will come soon who will be accepting OneCoin as payment mode. We all will be given Cards to carry our OneCoin and make payments easier.
Ruja is a lady with vision. Scammers don’t have visions. OneCoin will be traded to public also.
You can already see OneCoin is 3rd Position in the crypto world (Ozedit: link to bogus affiliate site removed, do not repost)
Bitcoin isn’t very successful. To be successful, a currency must be commonly accepted by ordinary people as a payment method for goods or services. But that part has mostly failed.
Estimated daily commercial transactions in January 2015 was $1.2 million per day. There’s simply too little normal use of it.
It was “successful” as an investment for a short period of time, some months. But after that it has mostly been unsuccessful even as an investment (the price has dropped 75% from ATH).
Like the other MLM crypto-Ponzies, the only merchants who will use OneCoin will be a token amount owned by affiliates.
Thanks for the laugh.
That’s a Eastern European thing. Big gowns. “Dr.” Ruja has been into that in the many pictures I have seen of her.
Though, the first thing I noticed is no crowd shots of attendees. Also, the shots of Ruja and the other spokesman looks like they held still for a photo rather than a moving shot.
If this was in fact held in Dubai, it looks like a rented meeting room at a hotel.
Haha.. rented room? More than 3000 attendees were there in Dubai. People form all parts of the world.
One World – One Currency
OneCoin will be a revolution. Bitcoin may not have been successful. But Bitcoin is not a Ponzi point. So what’s the point in calling OneCoin a Ponzi?
Whether she has vision or not is not important. What’s important is that she has your money, and you’re unlikely to get it back.
Because, by virtue of its business model, it is one.
As such all you’re going to get are never-ending “will be” hypothesis. None of which will ever eventuate.
Confirmed: 9 out of 10 optometrists agree, Ruja Ignatova has vision.
yeah right, every ponzi thinks it’s gonna change the world.
…and then the ‘management’ takes everybody’s money and runs.
each time, every time.
so, is the payment system working Or Not?
answer the question, and save us the blather.
what! all that Gold didn’t Blind her??
It will be working next week, it’s just a technical glitch. nothing serious. They took our money and gave us OneCoins. So we don’t lose.
And we all are sure that Ruja won’t run away. No way. She is a business women of the year. She have spent years studying about crypto currencies. And she has with her Mr. Sebastian who is a pro in networking.
And for your information – Forbes will not interview a scammer. You people will understand you are wrong in the coming months.
ONECoin is the BEST!
They took your money and gave you Ponzi points. Then the big investors withdrew your money, leaving you and the majority of later investors with nothing.
Dollar for dollar if everyone wanted to convert their Ponzi points into real money, OneCoin would collapse (funds invested not enough to cover Ponzi ROI liability).
They didn’t. Forbes confirmed it was a paid advertisement.
Ruja wrote up some PR friendly questions in MSWord, answered them and then paid Forbes Bulgaria to publish the doc in their classifieds section.
If you’re just going to keep spewing baseless marketing rhetoric, I think we’re done here.
“Business woman of the year” is rather generic. There are many higher quality candidates than Ruja to receive such a grand title.
Let’s just say the reason I am following this is because I had the opportunity for Ruja to grace my path. She wasted my time and my colleagues time while getting free work out of us attempting to figure out fast money. (Payment processing and gateway industry) In the conversations I had with her, she had no clue about Cryptocurrency or anything that wasn’t kangaroo-court MSWord legal documents littered with typos and errors. She only understands talking points and ways to avoid paying people.
What I want to figure out is her PhD and where she passed the bar. There must be some consequence in saying you received a PhD from Oxford when you didn’t. Or calling yourself a Lawyer if you are not. Of course she said she “attended Oxford” and received your PhD. Meaning she could have attended Oxford and bought her PhD online. She’s not wrong! You just didn’t read between the lines! Just like that paid fake Forbes interview. It’s in Forbes! It was an Interview.
Half truths are still lies.
Also Mr Sebastian Greenwood is a relatively known scammer who’s name is getting muddier more and more each day. Look up his affiliations: Unaico, Sitetalk, Prosper, Big Coin, and Loopium.
Why do you think Ruja keeps him hidden since the debut?
LOLOL..He is in front of everything, True leader. He was the main host for Dubai Event. So you are totally wrong.
So it looks like they posted a video of the event. I’m rather impressed if the focus was 100% on OneCoin.
Can anyone else watch that and put in their two cents?
Was this a dedicated event or was it an event on various money making opportunities with OneCoin having a time slot in that presentation?
I did not see all the 3000 people of the Dubai-event on the youtube video Blue linked to?
firstly, i think the applause and laughter was ‘canned’. the shots of the audience did not show any ‘joie de vivre’.
secondly all the talk about ‘private’ one coin exchanges is just baloney, it doesn’t make the scheme any less ponzi.
ruja did not address the question of the stalled ‘payment system’. this is a signature tune of deadend.
onecoin is currently speeding into a deadend.
deadend deadend deadenddeadenddeadend….just like the pink panther signature tune 🙂
youtube.com/watch?v=D1tYijCe6tk
-270,000 members (expects 1.5 million members at the end of 2015)
-140 million OneCoins produced
June 1st:
-XCoinx exhange, limited volume, start price €1.05 per OneCoin
-Internal trade between members
-OneCoin can be used to buy “packages” (upgrade membership)
I don’t believe in the number of members. I believe the 270,000 members can be divided by 10 or 20 = between 13,500 and 27,000 members (I don’t know anything about the “splits”).
On the video from the event in Dubai, i cant see the crowd of 3000 people that was supposed to be there?
I’ve been following this conversation for several hours now and all I can say is that I’m glad that I came across this thread.
Just a small info to my person: I’ve also been involved in this fraud organization by joining Conligus.
At least I was wise enough that I started with a basic package (50€) that I’d have had multiplied by approximately 420 times which makes 21.000€ in just (now hold on) 8 weeks.
I was all hyped up and in the meantime brainwashed that I eventually walked to my friends, relatives and even to my family members and told them full of excitement about this ‘amazing opportunity’ that would have changed my life 4eva.
In fact I could at least enroll 17 people in let’s say about 4 months being in Conligus (applause for this achievement ladies and gentlemen). Time passed by and day by day I lost my motivation and the outcome… (guess what) NOTHING. Not even a penny.
Then Conligus went down or how they tend to call it, they had to freeze all the commissions for a while which would’ve been paid out till the last penny to all the sincered Conligus members. BULLSHIT!!!
I still haven’t received any shit from them (not that I am still believing that I’d receive anything when the time pasts by).
Now all of a sudden the cooperation with OneCoin, which is supposed to be on top 3 cryptocurrencies by the end of this year. What I can say is that I made a mistake but I also gained an experience with this type of scam that probably everyone is being confronted with once in a lifetime.
For a moment I even was thinking about investing in OneCoin and waiting for one or two years until the price per coin raises about 50-100 euros.
But hey it’d have been even dumber if I’d have repeated the same mistake again. Once again my props to you guys for finally opening my eyes 🙂
Cheers
George
if they want to keep the Mining to themselves, why are they mining in the first place then.
Coming up with a complex algorithm with “N” number of solutions (2.1b in case of onecoin) and then spending money/time/manpower/infrastructure on finding those “N” solutions (mining coins) does nt make any sense.
I mean why not write a code that would simply give you solutions at a specific rate or in simple terms generate virtual coins at a certain rate which ofcourse you can control by factors/ parameters (eg. numer of members, ravenue earned etc).
Mining coins themselves and then trading them within their members internally does not make sense. ponzi or not , just not logical to me..
So basically nobody except OneCoin affiliates are interested in their Ponzi points.
Legit exchanges don’t want to get involved in Ponzi points so now they’re launching their own exchange.
As investors rush to cash out their accumulated points the schemes invested funds will deplete and then watch it collapse.
WARNING WARNING WARNING !!! for the sheeple!! (this is the new UFUN)
Being closed source and having a hush-hush member-only distribution is the opposite of what crypto stands for. (red-flags all over – real crypto currency’s are open source)
THE WERE PART OF SCI (NOW KNOW AS saveway.de) AND SINCE SCI IS ABOUT TO DIE, THEY MAKE THIS NEW “COIN” (ITS NOT GOING TO BE A COIN, BUT INSTEAD YOU JUST BUY POSITION IN THERE PONZI SCHEME).
THE COMPANY BEHIND THE COIN IS OPENED IN BULGARIA (BULSTAT 201531600) WHIT 1 EURO AS THERE MAIN CAPITAL.
There is a listing of the 3 highest count token accounts on the OneCoin dashboard landing page. The top account had, as of Feb 1, over 185,000,000 tokens, which would yield over 46,000,000 tokens to just one account.
At the rate that tokens have been adding to that account, the account holder will have over 250,000,000 tokens very soon, and continue to add tokens progressively.
Here is my epiphany:
185,000,000 tokens would cost in excess of 23,000,000 euros.
There is not billionaire investing tens of millions of euros in OneCoin. So, who is this account holder then?
How about the owner of OneCoin herself, Ruja Ignatova. This makes perfect sense and also reveals a potential scam of all scams.
She has over 58,000 paying customers now, who have spent between 130 and 5000 euros for packages in OneCoin. That yields tens of millions of euros into her bank account from all those purchases.
Now the scam part. She is buying from HERSELF tokens and tokens and more tokens out of those funds. She is simply transferring her own money onto her own bank account and claiming ownership of OneCoin tokens. Are you getting this?
Think about this again:
People buy OneCoin tokens with real money.
The funds from those purchases with real money goes to Ruja’s bank account.
She then takes that real money and tells the OneCoin system that she is buying tokens.
She uses funds in her bank account to buy tokens which puts that money right back into her bank account…………
She will end up owning 25% minimum, to an even larger percentage that is truly unlimited, of the 1.2 billion OneCoins to be mined.
Can you say MONOPOLIZE?
Oh, and don’t forget that 100% of OneCoins are to be self mined. There will be no public mining. No open source.
And I highly doubt these coins will ever go to a public exchange – only OneCoin’s internal network exchange, where Ruja, and the other principals in the OneCoin organization, will pump and dump their coins on unsuspecting dupes who will buy into the hype and horseshit the marketing gurus in OneCoin are going to conjure up.
This is going to be an epic scam……………
By the way, they already have over 60,000 paid memberships. Their income from this scam could already exceed 40,000,000 euros.
By the time they cash out on the coins, they might clear 100,000,000……….. Talk about scammmmmmm.
OneCoin’s facebook just referenced xcoinx as their exchange which is already known to be a fraud site. Half the website is in “coming soon” mode.
They claim to be above LiteCoin at position 3.
I took xCoinx to just be a dummy exchange OneCoin set up after no real one would exchange their OneCoin Ponzi points.
I think the plan is to create the illusion of legitimate trading, with the hope that will convince other exchanges to start trading OneCoin.
Look at the 7:10 mark.
Well in the video he was talking from the side lines, he didn’t show his face.
Ruja seemed to be the host of that event clearly and the spokesperson for OneCoin. Sebastian’s name is used sparingly in texts. This is because of his bad affiliations.
Why? It’s a fact man. Just because you don’t believe it, doesn’t mean it is not true.
If i look att the 7:10 mark i see at the most 200 people….NOT 3000 people…
Yeah, you are right about there not being 3000 people.
I am also trying to determine if this was strictly a OneCoin event or if this was a shared time presentation with other opportunities.
The footage also seem to be coming from the “investors” and only stills being made by onecoin.
Doesn’t mean it’s true either.
What will you guys say when OneCoin becomes successful and the best digital currency in the world? I’ll wait for that day.
Chinese government and UAEGovernment will be using OneCoin officially very soon. Agreement is already done.
That it’s a Ponzi scheme, same as it is now.
Lololol. That first surfaced 6 months, you’re a bit late on the regurgitation of whatever whoever convinced you to invest told you.
you’ll be waiting a long f’ing time. hold your breath while you do since you’re so confident. It’s going to be any second right?
“Shit! We missed that opportunity too. Why didn’t we listen to Jerin? He was right all the time”. 🙂
That was one possibility. Another one is five or ten years from now, “Have anyone heard anything from Jerin? He should return the day OneCoin had become the most successful and best digital currency in the world. Is he still waiting?”. 🙂
Don’t hold your breath.
China hates Bitcoin and any Cryptocurrency because it can’t be controlled by the central bank.
China banned any financial institutions and payment processors from processing Bitcoin. OneCoin or any other cryptomoney has NO CHANCE in China.
Read some REAL news rather than press release fiction, for once.
newsbtc.com/2015/03/06/bitcoin-chinese-law/
And this is considerably loosened from 2013 when China banned ALL cryptocurrencies. MyCoin collapse in Hong Kong 2014/2015 affected a lot of people and there was another wave of call for regulations.
You’ve been inhaling too much of Ruja’s helium. You’re starting to sound funny. Read some REAL NEWS instead of that fiction they’ve been putting out.
Yeah, exactly like Conligus did become a revolutionary corporation. That’s their means to brainwash you, try to be objective, make your own research and don’t rely on that what you’re being told by their affiliates.
Now when I looked closer at Ruja I realized what kind of a bitch she is and all the workmanship behind OneCoin.
Better don’t waste your time that day will never come and OneCoin will never go to Public Exchange!!!
agreement is already DONE?? did you see it? can you share it with us? please?
also, let us know when the payment processor starts up this week OK?
Jerin seems to be a shill for OneCoin. He spews a lot of garbage that no common victim would have knowledge of.
“Chinese government already has an agreement in place to start using OneCoin” Yeah right. Give me a reputable source on that.
The is no reason the “Chinese” government needs to use virtual currencies at this stage, especially the obscure and sketchy OneCoin.
Payment Processor is working as normal now for your information.
All you people have closed minds. Why can’t you accept something new? There are so many decentralised digital currencies in this world? Are all of them scams?
Dr. Ruja have spent years developing OneCoin. Why should she scam people when she can be the market leader in this industry in the coming years?
We have out mining pool in Hong Kong and new office opened in Dubai. Our Aurum Gold Coin is backed by REAL Gold. What is backing BitCoin? NOTHING! Still you all trust BitCoin.
I have done my research. So many people are joining One Network now. And we are officially launching in the US on July 4. You sit back and watch the rise of OneCoin.
@Jerin
There is nothing new about Ponzi schemes. The Ponzi points model OneCoin are using was pioneered by Zeek Rewards in 2012.
Only the ones attached to Ponzi schemes.
She didn’t develop anything. Paul Burks and friends came up with the Ponzi points model, Ignatova and friends just whacked a cryptocoin script on top of it.
So OneCoin will likely be shut down in the second half of 2015 then. We’ll be sure to provide full coverage of it.
You haven’t provided anything new. The fact that network marketing based on virtual investments might be new to you doesn’t mean it’s new to us.
You should have said “All you people have closed minds, you’re not open to slightly new variations of old BS”.
You will find several other Ponzi schemes reviewed here. Many of them have been shut down by authorities. Others have collapsed by themselves. OneCoin will most likely be added to one of those groups (and you will probably be added to the group “true believers, promised to come back”).
To be completely accurate, your statement should read:
I thought they had dropped that Aurum Gold Coin long time ago? It hasn’t been mentioned in a very long time. It didn’t fool anyone, so people stopped mentioning it.
To be even considered a cryptocurrency, you need the following:
1. The algorithm (algo) must be known and the method reproducible (open source)
2. CPU Processing power. Since OneCoin doesn’t require you to have a computer to mine, how are they mining the OneCoins? Do they have huge mining clusters in massive data centers? If so where are they?
3. Critical Mass, you need enough people to use it in normal everyday transactions or at the very least exchangeable. Thus, requiring a registration at an exchange. (xcoinx doesn’t count as it is fake)
They claim they have nearly 300,000 members, yet only have 6000 likes on their Facebook and only a couple hundred views on their official videos on Youtube.
The numbers are inflated and there is nothing revolutionary nor innovative about what they do.
OneCoin mining pool is in Hong Kong. Why are you asking this kind of difficult questions to normal people?
Dr. Ruja is doing everything for everyone to make money from this. So we don’t have to know the inner things about this, which is complicated.
Dr. Ruja haven’t scammed anyone before. So why do you say she’s a scammer? She is not going to run away with anyone’s money.
@Jerin
Because ignorance is not an excuse.
is the head of a global Ponzi scheme, by virtue of OneCoin’s business model. Whether you want to marry her or not is neither here nor there.
Ponzi admins do nothing but scam people, and in launching OnceCoin that’s exactly what Ignatova is doing.
xcoinx.com sold for $2295 at crypto domains
a funny thing about this exchange, the volume so far:0….but market cap 165.000.000€.
you wanna hear som “trading limits” whe trading onecoin in it’s own network oneexchange??
open 15.6
max 50 coins a day
and 1.5% of the coin account can by sold daily
mo-fri —– I say happy trading!!
a have mad a review about OneCoin, it will be released this week. (a presentetion to present the company in real fact, not to sell it).
1) Have you heard about Ignatovas IT team?? never!
2) Mining pools is total scam. People really think the are mining.
3) I have real numbers . There is 130.000 members in china, 65000 outside the world.
The number 280.000 is so fake.. The conligus team is a big reason to this. And over 100.000 members joined for free “reserving their places”.
Ugh, not again.
Already asked you: WHY would it be in HK, one of the most expensive places in the world to live?
Latest TIME survey found Hong Kong to be the 9th MOST expensive city in the world to live.
So do you trust me, since I haven’t scammed any one before? Are you willing to give me money if I promise to make everybody money?
If you don’t trust me, why do you trust Ignatova?
That means that many of them simply are email addresses? “Reserve your free spot in the network” won’t need any personal data. It may require a username and a password in some opportunities, but others will simply accept an email address.
Other opportunities like e.g. Unaico / Sitetalk used that method to blow up the member base, to pretend that it had much more members than it really had. OneCoin’s organizers are familiar with that method.
In Rippln, only 6,000 out of 1.3 million “secure your free spot” members converted to become real paying members. People will typically generate hundreds of positions, positions they later can sell to people they recruit if the opportunity becomes popular and successful.
1,300,000 / 6 = 217 = only 1:200 members in Rippln was a real member, the others were either fake members or they had lost interest completely.
Then it doesn’t have any measurable market cap?
Market cap will need to be calculated from trade in a normal market, without any volume restrictions. The price will need to be decided by the market rather than the management.
Trade among insiders at a fixed price will normally not count as a part of the trade. Restricted trade will normally not count. If people can’t buy or sell freely without restrictions then it will be meaningless to try to calculate any market cap.
Volume 0 = no measurable market cap. It doesn’t have any market price yet to be calculated.
It looks like they will try to prevent people from selling OneCoins. Low volume means it will be less costly to manipulate the price (if the intention is to do that).
There isn’t many buyers outside the network. The ones interested in cryptocurrencies will usually avoid MLM based ones.
The “tycoons” get their codes “cheaply” – lot of them
then they give away 20-50 130€ packages for free to people they know.
Then after 3-4 weeks when they think he makes fortune and upgrade..(the hardest to persuade get good discounts of course)
the tycoons say they will make fortune as he does…but they must upgrade first….
Please post the link here. Thank you.
nolink: youtube.com/channel/UCAo7jAnXUNYKvdpx69B9kMw/
Of course.
I’m really busy right now,and try my best.
Chapter 1 is here. On sunday evening there should be chapters 2 3 4
Chapter 5 is almost done and will be published next week.
Hi Ben, Thanks for the research. Putting it on a static website instead of a video will gain more viewers through search engines and be a bit easier to navigate and read. Really appreciate the hardwork though.
Also, I really hope that Ruja and Sebastian can’t escape justice through loopholes.
It’s still a Ponzi no matter how they deceived users. When has a EULA been considered legally binding? I doubt she can say it was all “legal” (especially with the number of countries they run this through) by saying “I was only selling education packages. It’s not my fault they misunderstood!”
Hopefully they will catch her in Malaysia or some other SE country that has a no bullshit justice system with harsh conditions.
i don’t have any web adress. I have chapters 1-4 as PDF.
Ruja will not be popular but rich. i think she has made 40.000.000€ already. (it can be much more)
She sold Pdf:s for 120-160 M€ and as unlimited token holder and noone else who can sell tokens, she get 40-50% of the bonuses that people make.
by the way the tokens can’t be sold anymore 15.6
– the short time target was FAKE -for 80 days the tokens couldn’t be sold, then 1,5% day, but now it’s over)
nolinkp:// tinypic.com/r/25ftxf8/8
@BEN, upload it to Scribd or such where it can be more easily shared.
I have a pdf but this is a kind of Beta. I want first see how people are understanding the document and then improve it to be understood correctly and easily. The videos will be always the latest version. I don’t want to several different pdf to be shared.
I found so far a couple of things that I will soon change.
(no big deal…I have some pages that comes directly from their webpages but people thought I was claiming that)
I improved the youtube. Now you can see the latest videos from this link.
NOLINK:/
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwAe1uM8jRyVGY6cIMw5vdVmR8Mkv4t5e
Hope that it will long run without sceam
Ben, Don’t forget “Fake Charities” in your blacklist such as their “One World Foundation”
maybe it is fake but i pass “charity” for now 🙂
I only know that she gave away profit from selling her books to this charity. 500 books! I haven’t read much about it but it’s kind of funny to build such a charity but making lot of asians only poorer.
————————————————–
Some time ago Dr. Ignatova published a book about finance and personal development – “Learning for Profit”, which is a part of the virtual university for e-currency “Crypto Real University”.
The book was officially presented by Ruja Ignatova during a conference in Hong Kong on 06.06.2014.
All 478 copies of the book were sold during the first two hours. 22 copies from the first edition were given to business partners of Dr. Ignatova from China and Dubai.
It has already started as a scam, as a Ponzi pyramid scheme (recruitment and investment). You can’t expect it to become legitimate.
You can probably expect to learn something from it, e.g. how a fraud works.
One major difference between Bitcoin and OneCoin is how they have been organized. OneCoin has a centralized organization, indirectly printing up the digital coins and selling them to investors as investments / targets for participation fee. It doesn’t have any function as a currency (in a normal market).
that’s so correct M_Norway!!! and yet they are claiming to be better than bitcoin 🙂
———————————-
a nice fact: they claim onecoin is at the same point as bitcoin in 2011 when it hit 1$ for the forst time
1) then: 5M of Bitcoins mined – now 1coins mined: 160M
2) first 1,5 years the capitalazation was 50.000-1.000.000$ -now 1coin (their exchange xcoinx.com) 187M$ /1.05€
3) the price could easily rise because of new buyers who wanted the currency -1coin: at the start 15.6 200.000 sellers with 160M coins who invested a lot already and want some money back
4) then 7000-8000 bitcoins mined daily — / now 1.440.000 new 1COINS EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!
and the waiting time for new onecoins is currently 35 days. 35×1,44M =50.000.000 1coins on the waiting list to come!!
nolink// bitcoinhelp.net/know/more/price-chart-history
(logarytmic scale is better)
Bitcoin has its own problems …
99% of the bitcoins seem to be owned by 1% of the investors
Very low activity / very little circulation
I only checked the first 1000 BTC owners. 38.5% of all bitcoins are owned by those 1000 investors.
I also checked #19,901 → 20,000 on that list.
There’s a few thousand investors hoarding bitcoins, but a low number of real commercial transactions. So bitcoin isn’t being circulated among consumers as it normally should have been.
interesting facts i will check them out.
And i bet 98% of the onecoin “users” won’t circulate the currency either.
they just want to cash out and say goodbye
Folks isn’t there any opportunity to investigate this fraud organization and forward all these proofs to Federal Agencies before it becomes too late.
I mean there must be an end to all this scammers, who take people’s money and disappear all of a sudden without being responsible for their actions to law.
The charity fraud might just be the push needed to get the investigation ball rolling.
Their One World Foundation website is shady. None of the social media icons work, the login is a fake button and the donation link is a direct Bulgarian bank account number. No post transaction confirmation, receipts, or additional information.
They link to “Ceva Canada” who does not mention them or offer a reciprocal link.
Just like the xcoinx site. Everything is in a state of “coming soon” or a placeholder. No reputable company rolls out websites that are only half functional.
I hope their assets get seized soon including “Dr” Ruja’s new 4.2m euro house in Sofia.
The following should be looked into closer:
1. Find out if Dr. Ruja has a real doctorate. She plays with semantics and tells half truths (such as the Forbes paid ad). Though she tries to pass it off as if she graduated from Oxford with said doctorate in law. There are many areas in law, but that is vague. If this can be deemed fake, then people will start questioning the rest of it.
2. Confirm the legitimacy of “One World Foundation” by contacting Ceva Canada and confirming if they actually donated large sums to them or not. There already is a different “One World Foundation” (India) They likely named it the same thing to generate confusion. Same reason they chose “OneCoin” which already exists as an AltCoin.
3. The legality of their OneCoin Vegas online gambing (based out of Malta) in areas where it is banned or requires additional oversight and licensing.
could somebody explain why USA can’t join OneCoin??
we hear all the the time that USA=PRELAUNCH and when Us will open then ONECOIN will become as big there as in China.
in april Ruja said 4.5. then in dubai the launch was set to 7.4
by the way Credit card payments DO NOT WORK for now in Onecoin… for several weeks ahead…. they “update” the system to a better one the “official explanation”
The reason they are not in the USA is because they cannot pass SEC regulatory scrutiny. The US is harsh on Ponzi schemes.
If they actually had a legitimate product or service, it wouldn’t be a problem. They cannot prove their legitimacy because it’s a scam and therefore cannot enter the US market. It’s another one of their “Coming Soons”.
Yeah the credit card processor had been broken for weeks. Then Jerin came by and said it works now. Looks like it never came back up or it went down again.
I think the “charity fraud” is not the most important right now. She can donate 100.000€ and it will be good?
I was trying hard to find out the history of Dr Ruja. he has truly had some jobs but lost them all??
b4bschwaben.de/nachrichten/kempten-oberallgaeu_artikel,-Gusswerk-Waltenhofen-ist-verkauft-_arid,48338.html
then 2012 she joined the dirty mlm world. 2014 she was in “real estate business”?? or trying to get good pr?, looks so fake to me!!!
first four links:
google.fi/search?q=real+estate+ignatova+ruja&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=HzBjVZ2GL4ivsQHaiIHwBw
the most fake can actually be her book. Why only chinese???
tinypic.com/r/2uoj9zk/8
rujaignatova.tumblr.com/
a review of that book would be nice
Has anybody seen Nigel Allan lately?
by the way I have a copy of bulgarian FORBES.
The cover is black with Markus Persson. Then you turn the page and IT IS A HARD COVER AGAIN! guess who 😉
i think when ponzi schemes start making excuses for payment processors, it is evident the End Is Near.
jerin hasn’t reported back on the ‘agreements’ with china and UAE to use the onecoin officially as a crpto currency either, we may not hear from him any further, methinks.
do you think ruja will go the way of DFRF and utoken and start converting everybody’s investments to shares, at some point? ponzi scammers DO tend to think conversion to ‘shares’ is an escape route!
Yeah, the Forbes confusion was cleared up once someone actually contacted Forbes, and they confirmed it was a paid advertisement.
She interviewed herself in that 3 page ad and then again on oneworldfoundation.eu website. Both have unnamed interviewers since it was PR friendly fluff piece written by her.
She even thanked herself for the great interview.
I also emailed Forbes… Their official reply follows:
I doubt she donated anything. The problem is she accepts donations from normal people through the “Donate” link which goes directly into a bank account in Bulgaria.
That’s the mystery. There isn’t a whole lot of background on her.
Most of the websites you find are sites she created on free websites. You can tell because they all say “Business Woman of the Year” and Law and economics degree.
The thing is no one has confirmed her education, if she has the credentials, she would be proud to put that forward.
Probably lost all her jobs to being a pathological liar and back stabbing people. Maybe her education and previous employment credentials didn’t add up when they checked.
I think it was written in Bulgarian and translated to Chinese. Probably because the contents are such a crock she would be called out by Western economists.
He was fired some time back. Ruja said something about him “Betraying her trust.” Nigel has been quiet though, so probably got some hush money.
I suspect that the Chinese and Indian markets are not using the credit card processor directly.
China won’t let them use CUPS (China Union Pay) so they probably accept through Alipay, direct bank transfers, and various forms of wires. Europe is used to using Bank transfer, so having the CC down may not be of concern.
But I do agree that when the processors go, it probably means they got wise. Probably lots of chargebacks happening.
In a discussion in Nigel Allans facebook feed he mentioned that OneCoin is a major fraud.
Now, the post was set to public earlier but now it has disappeared. He probably got too many questions?
It’s still there: “there’s lots wrong with that company and the owners…massive fraud”.
While all these posts make One Coin look bad, it’s too late for me, as I’ve already gone in as Trader, and upgraded to Tycoon.
I didn’t want to find out that it is indeed better than Bitcoin, and overcomes the doubts, and regret not having joined it.
I might look foolish right now, due to all this negative feedback about One Coin, but, if you’re all wrong, I’ll have the last laugh.
It’s disheartening to read all this, yet nothing less was expected, given all the other fraud that has existed so far — am glad I didn’t invest in U-Token, which, with a company name of “Fun”, I didn’t trust, especially since it was wire-transfer only to Thailand, and investors could go as high as $50k.
A few weeks later, those guys all were arrested (thank goodness).
If One Coin is a scam — it’s the most elaborate scam I’ve ever seen!
While it’s true that the members mine the coins, they will be on public exchange – and launch in the US on July 4th.
Casino: Members can play there — only US members cannot play for real money, but can for free. (We can’t hurt the profits of our greedy casinos in the US, now, can we — thus, it’s illegal for offshore casinos to allow US citizens to play online for real cash).
Regarding Dubai: some members actually were in attendance there.
Facebook: not everyone is into Facebook. Just because a Facebook page has only 6000 “Likes”, and even more members, doesn’t mean that they have only as many investors as shown on Facebook.
Nobody is required to “Like” a page.
Finally, when One Coin rises above all of the doubts, we can then say it’s for real — and the doubters can have their regrets. TIME WILL TELL.
^^^ OneCoin’s business model and compensation plan are not unknowns.
The only thing you’re waiting for is regulatory intervention or the inevitable collapse.
Right now a bunch of money has been invested and people are hoarding the coins in the hope of indefinite rises in the perceived value of the coins (Ponzi points).
Quite obviously this is pegged to nothing and if everyone went to withdraw their points right now most would receive less than they initially invested (funds have already been withdrawn by the top investors).
Most of those bitcoin investors probably invested in 2013 (they’re not “hoarding” anything now).
There isn’t much activity among the investors now, they neither buy nor sell any huge quantities of coins. The investment has become rather illiquid for most investors.
DISTRIBUTION OF BITCOINS
– – – – – – Top level investors 50,000+ BTC – – – – – –
3 investors own > 100,000 BTC (avg. 146,927 BTC)
15 investors own 50,000 → 100,000 BTC (avg. 67,419 BTC)
– – – – – –
= 18 top level investors (1,452,070 BTC) 10.32% of total BTC
– – – – – –
– – – – – – second level 10,000 → 50,000 BTC – – – – – –
20 investors own 20,000 → 50,000 BTC (avg. 29,255 BTC)
64 investors own 10,000 → 20,000 BTC (avg. 13,130 BTC)
– – – – – –
= 84 second level investors (1,425,450 BTC) 10.13% of total BTC
– – – – – –
– – – – – – third level 1,000 → 10,000 BTC – – – – – –
117 investors own 5,000 → 10,000 BTC
158 investors own 3,000 → 5,000 BTC
342 investors own 2,000 → 3,000 BTC
964 investors own 1,000 → 2,000 BTC
– – – – – –
= 1581 third level investors
= 1683 investors total (3 top levels)
Fun fact: A friend of mine, who became an Conligus affiliate a couple of months ago eventually did try to refund his money.
We spoke to our up line regarding this concern, he suggested to address this issue to onecoin support as he claimed not to be responsible for it.
Then we wrote the support team asking them to refund his money and guess what they repplied:
It’s never too late. Try to refund your hard-earned money (if possible) otherwise you’ll contribute to make the rich Ruja slut for another 5000 euros richer!
It clearly tell about Dr. Ruja’s qualifications even in 2010. She have not even thought about OneCoin at that time.
b4bschwaben.de/nachrichten/kempten-oberallgaeu_artikel,-Gusswerk-Waltenhofen-ist-verkauft-_arid,48338.html
So your whole question on this is answered now. It’s not made up – it’s REAL!
is thit the page? or another one?
facebook.com/NigelSAllan/timeline
i would really like to see it thanks.
a little test video. check out 7 – “THE FORBES MIX” 😉
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwAe1uM8jRyVGY6cIMw5vdVmR8Mkv4t5e
The members don’t mine any coins themselves?
They pay for tokens, and then they spend those tokens on buying coins via a “virtual mining process” = someone pretending there are some real mining activities going on while releasing OneCoins at a certain rate to the ones who have paid for the coins.
The only realistic way to make money there is to recruit other people and convince them to invest in membership packages (just like someone did when you were introduced to the opportunity).
and ‘earned’ his 10% commission.
nolink:planetpyjama.com.au
the same picture as onefoundedion
@ben
what is the website domain of ruja’s ‘one world foundation’?
One World Foundation is a sham charity. The images are just stock pictures stolen from random websites.
There are no regulatory, tax information, registration numbers or anything else located on the website. Yet on the Facebook page today they say “They are quite transparent” when someone challenged them on this.
It’s not transparent when you are forced to believe what they tell you. They give you no information to research beyond what they tell you. It’s all just “Believe us! We are giving the money to needy children.”
Just put your money in the following bank account numbers that don’t even reference “One World Foundation”. No, you will not get a tax exemption receipt because it’s fake and not registered.
There is already a “One World Foundation” that works in India primarily. They used the same name to confuse and add credibility if you saw it listed on some other charity site!
They are extremely scummy if they stoop that low in reeling in the gullible. No Honor Among Thieves.
back in august, 2014, when nigel allan was president of onecoin, this is the response he posted in the moneymakersgroup [MMG] forum, about why onecoin was not doing business in the USA:
ha, i thought companies could get registered in the US in a couple of hours! and why did allan have a problem with strictly following KYC norms?
someone has said onecoin will launch in USA in july, 2015, but i don’t see that happening because no public exchange has accepted them or will ever accept onecoin.
on the other hand we may see the decline of onecoin and subsequent crash a few months from now.
if this fake so ******* **** ** ********* !!!
HOW THE H… SHE CAN DO THAT WITH BLIND CHILDREN? Now i’m really angry.
another chapter.(?)..bigger list again…this is crazy.
my intention was to put my blacklist already 1.5. but new facts every day…then the fake cover 7.5 (then I was sure it’s going to be a scam)
– i have a new really cool video.. will be avaible in some hours
– i have a blog now. i will put there ALL LINKS ALL INFO ALL FACTS I will find about OneCoin, Ignatova, Parhiainen, Greenwood.
It will help people share info and make own conclusions. and now it will be easier to contact me too. You have new links or something just “ask” me on the blog
Tomorrow I will put an updated 1-4 “pdf” there… I put pictures of the fake cover there. should come in blacklist but this is SO FAKE!
benzmith.tumblr.com
She uses the One World Foundation website to advertise OneCoin and steal more of your money. Read the interview section, it’s just full of the same self-interview as Forbes plus something about her caring.
They say they “support” OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) but every stock image is not even a picture of an actual OLPC computer.
Support doesn’t mean donate. It just means you like it and anyone can say that.
Remember, Ruja chooses her words carefully. She probably made a 10 euro donation to CEVA just so she can say they donate to CEVA.
If they donated large amounts, they would list how much they donated and CEVA would likely have said something in their news releases.
OLPC I believe only costs 100 euro. They probably just bought 1 and now make a big announcement about how “they donated”
No tax identifiers or registration codes on the website, no social media links, non-functioning login.
Just a correction. It’s SEVA Canada not CEVA.
Also I found another one of her word plays. This was on the website “One World Foundation will work closely with SEVA Canada Society”
“WILL” as in the possible future.
She also repeats the words “The Foundation” not SEVA. Donations will be made to the foundation. We will work closely with the foundation.
I’m not saying they didn’t donate. But it is shady when there are no actual donation numbers ,registration numbers, or company trademarks to verify.
Here are the other “OneWorld Foundations”:
oneworld-foundation.org
oneworld.net.in
1worldfoundation.org
There are so many of them. This is why they chose that name.
THIS is ALL a bunch of LIES about One Coin. The Foundation helps restore sight to children around the world. Also, Bitcoin (Ozedit: is not an MLM opportunity and is therefore irrelevant.)
I’m so GLAD I am “Tycoon” — and can’t wait ’til July 4th, when One Coin launches in the US!
I personally know members who attended the Dubai conference, and here is what one told me: (Ozedit: Offtopic waffle that does not address the fact OneCoin is operating as a Ponzi scheme removed.)
I was in Dubai, I was at the office, I met people who were making real money. I had lunch and dinner with Juha and Pehr.
If this were a Ponzi scheme, they would all be going down and potentially facing a lot of jail time….. these are very generous and giving people who want everyone to succeed.
Dr. Ruja is not the type of woman who would be running a ponzi scheme. no way.” BY THE WAY: ONE WORLD FOUNDATION IS: ONEWORLDFOUNDATION.EU
Ring-a-ding-ding.
Based on what exactly? Your man-crush on her? Her shoe size? The alignment of the stars?
A business model defines whether or not an opportunity is a Ponzi scheme. Not you gushing about its staff and repeatedly trying to introduce offtopic comparisons to BitCoin into the conversation.
? did you see that forbes cover?? So maybe she gave you a signed copy?
I’ll publish the real one today. -> benzmith.tumblr.com/
facebook.com/Forbes.Bulgaria
by the way. the everywhere try to avoid her real birthday. is this maybe why it should be easier to confirm her studies and so on?
the real one should be this: 17.7.1980 Ruse
No kidding. We already know that. I listed various other ones that exist to show the name is not unique.
If One World Foundation is in fact helping blind children around the world, give me the registration number for this charity and where they run their operations from.
Where did you get your evidence? The website? Who is the team behind One World Foundation?
It surely can’t be run by one person. No names, no positions. The only thing we know about this is that the bank is out of Bulgaria. They don’t even use the name One World Foundation for the deposit name.
That will be interesting. OneCoin will not pass the SEC sniff test.
this is a educated woman??? watch this!
39.00 —>
41.25 —>
->/www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxHPGmycmhg
Selling something for less than you bought it for is called selling short. You do it to mitigate further loses and is common in any form of financial speculation and trading.
Amazing she can stand there and talk like she understands economics. This is why I questioned if she even has a doctorate or a degree in economics.
Selling something for less than you bought it is called selling at a loss…not selling short.
Amazon shows one book for sale by a person named ruja ignatova. Its a legal treatment of some obscure EU legal code Article 5 (?) written in German.
There is no listing of a book named “Learning for Profits” (mentioned on the One World Foundation website and Barnes and Nobel booksellers does not have anything by a ruja ignatova at all, and yet it is claimed that she is contributing profits from this book to the One World Foundation. Perhaps.
According to the short bio on Amazon.com, ruja ignatova has been working as a business consultant for the last 11 years. A girl’s gotta make a living.
You’re right. I should have said “Selling at a loss”
It’s easy to setup a “foundation”. Any one remember the Wazzub Charity Foundation? 😀 Did they ever donate a penny despite the Wazzub song? Doubt it!
The “mining” of OneCoin is a completely unnecessary part, so it probably doesn’t exist in reality (as she describes it).
Normally people won’t use hypothetical examples like “If it cost you 50c to mine a coin” when they’re talking about their own businesses. The normal way is to recall the information from memory.
Circulating currencies should normally have a low “self-cost”. Bitcoin’s “mining costs” is one of its weaknesses. It doesn’t add more value to the coins, it only adds some unnecessary costs.
Currencies will get value from the fact that they can be exchanged for goods, services or other types of value. Bitcoin currently has the function of a currency (some of them). OneCoin doesn’t have that.
Norway: i’m myself thinking that way. that the mining do not exist.
But currently i think if there is a currency it is a cheap bitcoin copy. Toy can make your own cryptocurrency in 1 day. (there are programs for free on internet)
does anyone know this:
if bitcoin (or whatever cryptocurrency) would be mined by a single person from the beginning how much computer power do you need?
i know that if more people mine bitcoin it’s getting harder to find coins. but if a single person would mine? what about then?
but ignatova has som token difficulty. i doubt it is coded with tokens included. she can increase/decrease the token difficulty whenever she feels for it.
you are mining “automatically” you mine for 6 tokens 4 months ahead, you are not so you can mine some coins for 1 more but then the difficulty can jump up suddenly (so fa 4-6-10 5-7-11)
It doesn’t cost anything to produce the tokens either, so it doesn’t really matter whether people pay 4 tokens or 7 tokens.
People pay money IN
→ money ends up in a bank account
→ money from bank account can be used to pay withdrawals
The monetary value ends there in a bank account. The rest of the system won’t need to involve any money or any value.
→ People get tokens in “membership packs”
→ people use tokens to pay for mining
→ the mining generates OneCoins
→ OneCoins can be reinvested in more tokens
→ people can use tokens to pay for mining
→ mining will generate OneCoins
→ (repeat over and over again)
There’s no monetary value involved in that process. The VALUE is still in the bank account.
I think I am ruffling a few feathers on OneCoin Face book page. I have added a copy of my post & thier reply below:
Me:
OneCoin:
Me:
OneCoin:
they say they do not mention God, but check out this link:
scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/13402_10203634060686540_7807199628912742962_n.jpg?oh=699f9c727c097f8c46888fc699cbcdca&oe=55F8C3DE
666 – ONECOIN TRUE INFO – IGNATOVA COVER (hot) MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUjJ-QJ4kFM&list=PLwAe1uM8jRyVGY6cIMw5vdVmR8Mkv4t5e&index=6
Information about the audit of system blockchain:
youtube.com/watch?v=WAIKyBF4GuE
Hey Ben, It seems OneCoin banned you and removed all your posts on their Facebook.
They don’t like being challenged. Including you calling them out on the One World Foundation picture being from a Children’s Pajama webshop.
@Rockfish, I saw your posts on FB. Why not ask them what their registration number is and who the altruistic team behind the foundation are?
Ask them if you will get a tax exemption receipt and donation confirmation (besides the bank statement saying you made a deposit into a Bulgarian bank account) Such an important organization must have a management structure.
They will probably say no as it leaves a paper trail that can implicate them. Especially tax exemption and charity fraud.
What percentage goes to the charity vs administrative overhead? Usually a legitimate site will list the breakdown.
Here are all the red flags of that charity: No registration information, no tax status info, no names, no donation numbers, non-functional web elements such as social media and login links.
Stolen art assets from random websites, Stock images unrelated to the project such as the OLPC not being OLPC computers (One Laptop Per Child).
Direct bank account wires with no confirmation or address requirement from you.
The Interview section is a OneCoin advertisement. No credit card or various other payment options besides OneCoin. and SEVA Canada doesn’t care enough to mention them with them being one of their “top” donators. hmmm.
Lastly, read between the lines. Ruja tiptoes around words using terms like “The Foundation” to confuse who is getting the money.
Which Foundation? Seva? or One World Foundation? Likely the donation is going to “their” foundation.
Ruja and occassionaly Sebastian seem to be the only two names you see. All their correspondence ends with “The OneCoin Team.”
As for the “GOD” reference, I don’t know how important of a role that plays.
Though her bio does state she was a youth leader for the Christian Democratic Party in either Bulgaria or Germany. So a slip up like that is plausible.
Think of the humiliation and reputation hit that will occur when this thing collapses:
Dian Dimitrov from Semper Fortis (Bulgarian firm) blockchain audit. (Doubt he even knows what a blockchain even is)
Breidenbach Rechtsanwälte (German law firm) deems OneCoin legal. (Though Ruja may have deceived them by not supplying all the information for them to make an accurate claim)
She will likely escape to Bulgaria before it hits the fan and cozy up in her 4.2m euro home.
Bulgaria has low bribery and corruption enforcement and corruption is at a 15-year high according to transparency dot org. You can bribe your way out of things.
Here is a game, what are the likely outcomes? Choose one number and one letter.:
1. Ruja escapes and throws Sebastian under the bus. Pictures of his Tux with his bow-tie half hanging. Yelling “It’s all Ruja, I Swear!”
2. Sebastian escapes and throws Ruja under the bus. Pictures of Ruja crying in her “Fairy gown” now that she is caught. Saying she didn’t know and was a victim herself.
3. Both are apprehended in SE Asia and forced to do the perp walk in front of the media. UFUN style. shirts over heads.
4. Both are apprehended eventually in various parts of the world.
5. Both escape into hiding. Sebastian staying in SE Asia while Ruja keeps a low profile in Bulgaria.
6. Other (Choose your own adventure)
A. All assets are ceased and Ruja gets her 4.2m euro in Sofia revoked.
B. Some assets recovered, but not all can be accounted for.
C. No Assets are ceased.
D. Bribes are paid and they keep some of their proceeds.
E. Other (Choose your own adventure)
Mr. Blue…. Here is my reply to them. Let see what happens:
very impressive, intellectually riveting stuff!
i’m so impressed i did some intellectual research myself and found this!
a poetic overview of rujamama’s life & times:
plumply she swayed, in her golden ball gown
said nothing about the processor being down!
just asked everybody, to invest and invest
cause rujamama’s onecoin, is bester than the rest!
she studied at harvard and uh, oxford too
studied law in Not five years, But only just two!
has a doctorate in ‘something’, that is never revealed
cause rujamama keeps her hot red lips sealed!!
she’s buying a mansion, with all your money she stole
and forbes fake covers, her own genius to extol!
this Ruja Hot Mama’s really having a ball !!
shake it like rujamama, or don’t shake it at all !!
Looks like they removed the SEVA Canada logo from their oneworldfoundation site.
I just emailed Seva Canada for verification. I’ll let you know what they say.
if you scroll down to the bottom of the home page, the seva canada logo is still there.
Okay, maybe just a caching issue with the browser. Anyway I contacted them to see if they are in fact a major donor or a donor at all.
I just checked the physical location of One World Foundation. It is SG Expressbank (Sofia).
They just listed the Bank address as their physical location. “Our office is closed on bank holidays.”
Then I hope you identified the foundation correctly. There are probably tens of “One World Foundation”. 🙂
It may help them identify it more clearly if we use information from One World Foundation’s own website, e.g. how OWF itself identifies its relation to SEVA.
“Helping 1000 blind children in 2015”?
“Some type of ‘partnership’ with SEVA”?
“Among the major donors of SEVA”?
“Work closely with SEVA on projects in multiple countries”?
VAGUE INFO
Additional explanation for why we ask questions.
Its website only contains rather vague info. No legal info, no registration details, no financial info, no detailed project info.
No country of registration, no entity number, no founding document, no CEO or contact person, no board members, no financial reports.
It does have some vague contact info, but registration details are missing.
It has close connections to a network marketing company “OneCoin”. They seem to be organized by the same person or people, and “OneCoin” is actually indirectly promoted on the website.
This was just an example. I can probably identify some more relevant questions than the current ones.
yes i was kicked out from FB. I could make another one but i don’t really have time for those on facebook.
this is worse than a religion. you have to believe and the others are evil.
I was thinking of making such a “game” my favourite would be to lock ruja sebastian and juha in jail around the world.
every 2 months change jail to another one. in all coutries where they sold 500+ “education” packages.
—>foundry-planet.com/ru/oborudovanie/detail-view/11535/?cHash=447805701fd756a6b93843d72973e16d
—>kreisbote.de/lokales/kempten/gusswerk-will-geld-zurueck-2582232.html
what igntova did 2012….
investigate people!!! soon this scum is over!
Get a load of the BS post:
Response: Name the attorney or GTFO Ponzi lies.
Lololol. Creditibility++
a few months ago Ignatova said that the audition would do a very known company like “Ernst & Young”. now the audition was made by a local firm from bulgaria.
they state proudly: we are the only one cryptocurrency who is doing such a audition to show the credibility.
and you probably know why they are the only one to AUDIT BLOCKCHAINS ;))))
@M_Norway
I did receive a response, but I think they misunderstood my request. I’ll have to ask them again.
Here was the email I sent to them:
The Response I received from SEVA Canada:
How should I modify my request. Say that I am a concerned citizen that works with outing scams?
something was being planned by onecoin, for the US market earlier this year.
an FB page belonging to glenn smith of the US, posted on feb 23, 2015:
uh, kevin thompson!!!!
0n april 1, 2015, glenn smith of ‘one coin USA 1’ posted:
in early april, 2015, glenn smith went to bulgaria to meet ruja ignatova
the last post on this USA onecoin FB page was on april 10th. i think as the tie with mastercard and union pay card, didn’t happen as expected, the US onecoin push may have run out of gas?
your email was informative enough, so the response from SEVA canada is befuddling.
yes, try telling them you are a concerned citizen trying to expose the onecoin ponzi, and you could give a link to this article here on behindmlm, so that they understand better?
sabway.biz/
this is so ridicolous
Respond with the information they ask for?
“I’m not representing an agency or a firm. I’m a concerned citizen having a discussion on the internet with other concerned citizens. Relevant parts of your answer will be posted in a forum thread or similar places”.
That last part was about “Only share the information you openly can share, don’t share any sensitive information or secrets”.
They are clearly willing to give you some information, but they will need to know which types of information they can give you. Just make it easier for them to understand your own role (“not an agent or an attorney”).
They haven’t misunderstood your request, but they will need to adjust the answer so they don’t share any sensitive information to the wrong person.
GIVE THEM ACCESS TO INFORMATION?
Refer to or copy details from my post #281, where I quoted directly from relevant parts of the website and provided the address (disabled links) to each source.
“Let them SEE what you SEE” for the parts relevant to them, the parts you’re asking questions about. It will usually result in more meaningful answers if you’re both talking about the same thing.
why? do they have something to hide?
either they are receiving money from ruja’s one world foundation or they are not!
where is the problem??
The answer was a correct response if the intention is to give meaningful answers.
A “concerned citizen” will need a different type of information than an agency or a firm (e.g. lawfirm, bank, etc., or a PI checking something on behalf of a client).
[My guess]
* The facts of the case is probably that Ruja Ignatova donated some money some time ago, e.g. the profits from the sale of 478 copies of her book “Learning for profit”.
* She has probably promised to continue to donate the profit. In return for those promised donations, she has probably been allowed to use some SEVA material on One World Foundation’s website (photos, etc.).
* But I don’t believe it has resulted in more donations to SEVA.
The questions from the concerned citizen probably triggered some alarm bells, e.g. the use of the term “Ponzi scheme” will normally cause some reactions from charities. They should normally try to get more info.
The next step here will probably be to offer more information (relevant to SEVA’s situation).
1. We don’t see it as a SEVA specific problem. SEVA simply popped up because of some marketing statements, e.g. in post #258.
We’re simply trying to clarify OneCoin’s indirect role as a “major charity donator”.
2. The Ponzi scheme logic is that onecoin crypto currency is a type of investment more than a type of product or service. MLM and network marketing should be about commercial activity, not about financial ones.
* Combine that investment with misleading marketing to attract investors (consumers), e.g. simulated profit presented as real profit.
* Combine it with a closed market where the price of the investment units easily can be manipulated to reflect a false profit.
* Combine it with no underlying value in the investment itself, and no legitimate business activity that will be able to generate a profit.
The “profit generating mechanism” is a closed circuit with no money involved. The number of onecoins will grow through splits and reinvestments. The virtual “value” of onecoins will seem to be growing because the price can be controlled to reflect a growing value.
Note that we don’t see all crypto currencies in a similar way. The Ponzi scheme issue is specific to OneCoin and most other MLM based virtual investments.
He didn’t identify clearly why he was asking, e.g. he could have been a PI investigating something on behalf of a client.
The correct response should simply be to clarify his own role. They asked specifically about that.
Blacklist first video
ONE ACADEMY
->youtube.com/watch?v=vTuSLivBo-o
my pdf chapters 1-4
->drive.google.com/file/d/0B4CyzrtK43UvVEVTWlVkZ05HNG8/view?usp=sharing
working links
Blacklist first video
ONE ACADEMY
->www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyk8Xvux08E&list=PLwAe1uM8jRyVGY6cIMw5vdVmR8Mkv4t5e&index=7
my pdf chapters 1-4
->drive.google.com/file/d/0B4CyzrtK43UvVEVTWlVkZ05HNG8/view?usp=sharing
the local firm is sempre fortis and it’s managing partner, Dian Dimitrov, presented an audit report during the may 15th dubai convention.
the audit is available to affiliates who have signed up for the onecoin newsletter and also available in their account backend.
here’s hoping someone will mail a copy of this newsletter to oz.
meanwhile the video of the audit report of may 15th, was released a couple of days ago and i don’t know what sense it makes!
something about onecoin being in the clear, because there are no coins outside the ‘blockchain’. duh who cares.
what they should audit is how onecoin is generating revenue, but of course not, lets just waste everybody’s time with some crap about blockchains.
anyways here’s lookin’ at rujamama swaying once again :
youtube.com/watch?v=UOSStXW9YbY&feature=youtu.be
question : how much investor money did ruja ignatova pay the managing partner of a ‘top ten’ accountancy firm of bulgaria, to travel to dubai for a 10 minute presentation?
@Ben
Maybe the authors should be contacted about her stealing there copyrighted content and reselling it for exorbitant prices.
the audition CAN BE REAL.
why? because she has to deliver it or get to jail in the future.
most probable is that she made a cheapest altcoin that could be made in the end 2014. Anyone can nowadays do an own currency, there are apps for this for free around.
everything you see in the mining (exchange) is for visual convincing that there are happening transactions all the time. best comedy is the blockchain section when there are transactions happening every minute.
this is so stupid. you can google whatever text from the one academy levels and you can get the rest.
try to google “An enduring mystery of market history is that big, key reversal points seem to come out of the blue.”
L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 …oooooooooops Ruja did it again. you can add “level” to the search if you want to
when you have the content (no copyrights there, you know why)
then you can search all the text from there and find the original content. the authors won’t be happy if they get to know it.
That audit is likely not real. If it was real, they wouldn’t have a problem revealing the algorithm or allow exploration of the blockchain by its users.
I don’t know the qualifications of the auditor to fully understand what a blockchain even is. But what I see, is a sleazy looking dude that was probably paid huge sums for the use of the firms name.
the auditor is probably the best blockchain auditor of bulgaria 2014 2012 a new title arranged by Evgeni Minchev von Bul
minchev.com/en/index.html
donwload level 1-5 for free (i guess the lnks won’t work forever)
benzmith.tumblr.com
According to their Facebook page…. The great & powerful & most ittelligent woman ever born Dr. Ruja just celebrated her birthday with a grand party for select friends….
Must be nice to throw a party where price is no object because your cult of followers are the ones paying for it.
The replies and wishes they have posted for her are sickening…. These people are brain washed.
rujaignatova.snimka.bg/
vimeo.com/129359717
fake birthday??
Ben …. Just watched the video of the fake birthday you posted… Now I am nausated…
She is such a piece of crap…. I hope her next birthday is behind bars, where she belongs.
I feel bad for some of the people, but others, if they are that dumb… Maybe they need a lesson. A very expensive lesson.
She is fake. Summar 2014 she made 10-20 free web pages about her just to convince people she is real good with good CV.
Despite her good studies nobody wanted her after 2012. Here is the reason:
There was a withdraw of Christmas and vacation money and 14,5 more hours of work per month without pay.
->foundry-planet.com/ru/oborudovanie/detail-view/11535/?cHash=447805701fd756a6b93843d72973e16d
->foundry-planet.com/tr/news/kurumsal-haberler/kurumsal-haberler/11768/?cHash=a7405643b0169d41f52afcfe04610af1
my next blacklist is about Ruja.
yeah, she was popping out of her dress.
nice to see she knows how to enjoy her investors money!
a little birdie tells me that one’s rujamama’s ponzi scheme Crashes, she wont be posting videos of her burrday pardy’s anymore. she may shift her partying to a basement somewhere!
I just can not beleive no-one can get the real background on this bitch.
She openly brags about being the smartest female ever and how she is single handily will created more millionaires that any company ever….
Why no legal authority has taken it upon theirselves to investigate this bull shit is totally beyond me….
Simple.
In the grand scale of things it’s nothing but a small time pissant penny ante fraud among hundreds of thousands of similar operations and won’t last long enough to make it practical or viable for law enforcement agencies to redirect any of their already limited resources.
Throw in the fact it appears to be based in Bulgaria, a country not known for either its’ enforcement,asset recovery or co operative capabilities, and one has to ask who would benefit from a full scale investigative or asset recovery operation ???
Well…. Guess OneCoin did not like my honest comments on their Facebook page.
All my comment have been removed and I can no longer post…. I tried to open some eyes… But, that cult is too far gone.
WTF… look at what these people are posting about ” Their Company”:
what about this:
registerd members
gibraltar 0 =the company is operating from there
bulgaria 550 = Ruja was born there
uk 300 = she should have hundred of friends there? or maybe they are not stupid in Oxford 😉
germany=1080 she lived there from being 10 and owned Gusswerks Waltenhofen 2010-12
So where do all the other members come from? Or are they just inflating her numbers?
Are the Chinese that stupid? I listened in on their pep call… They are planning on conquering the United States.
I am forwarding information to the security and exchange commission they have really been hard on Ponzi schemes here.
Dr. Ruja plans on coming next month… Maybe they will be there to greet her
the fovourite quote in webinars: USA is “prelaunch” (as always) .
the launch was set to 4.5 but did not happen AND I DOUBT IT WILL HAPPEN 4.7.
this is from terms&conditions. They put USA there in May.
LOL THEY CHANGED IT LAST WEEK:
maybe it looks better now? 😉
“Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, USA” was not so impressive looking.
onecoin.eu/page/details/terms_and_conditions
I did some calculations and here are my predictions:
1) Below 500.000 members
2) Onecoin won’t open in USA
3) Key reversal = 15.7-15.8
4) No more big event like Dubai 15.5
1) This is my weakest prediction. Why? Because you can’t trust the numbers.You don’t even know what the number is telling you. Dr Ruja can make new promotions or a new alliance like with Conligus when we saw a big increase of the members.
2) This is my best prediction. Dr Ruja puts no resources on fighting US Laws.
3) “An enduring mystery of market history is that big, key reversal points seem to come out of the blue” – This is the google search that I made and found Levels 1-5 of One Academy.
A critical event will happen and Dr Ruja and Sebastian decide to cash out. It could be earlier. Difficult to know when you can’t see all the numbers or what the new rules will be. Dr Ruja is the dictator of the company and can do whatever she wants.
4) If This will happen then I’ll admit I was wrong.
There are small groups of investors already here in the USA… I am sure illigally.
They have power calls every night & I have listened into a few… They are basically telling them to go out and recurit like crazy…
They said they did 50-60 million in sales last week, according to some guy named Pher from Sweeden …. All sounds like BS to me.
onecoin does seem to have been doing some groundwork in the US.
they have tied up with ‘MLM leaders’ and prepped them on onecoin, and these guys are recruiting already as mentioned by rockfish too.
onecoin has ‘consulted’ with MLM attorney kevin thompson, probably about getting around USA compliance issues.
as ben has noted in post #315, the onecoin’s T&C has been changed recently to exclude USA from the list of restricted countries.
so, somethings in the air, and ruja ignatova wants to play with US fire.
yesterday they have launched their coinvegas, online gambling casino, where participants can pay using onecoins. can someone explain how this works? where does the money come from to pay the winner?
to me it looks like US is still restricted. the list is the same but written in different style
Coinvegas , if real, is a brilligent idea. It enables onecoin to keep all profits in house.
First they make money signing up members and give their members a few coins. They then offer a chance to play their coins in their very honest casino and end up loosing their coons back to one coin ….
BooHoo member you have to buy more coins from us and start the process all over again.
FAQ is down, but I wouldn’t be surprised if prizes were only paid out in OneCoins…
Also the games they have look like cheap script games downloaded from somewhere… “Santa Spin”, really?
impressive?? NOT! 😉
casinowebscripts.com/cheapest-bitcoin-casino-starting-solution.html
casino-del-mundo.com/
Here you go Ben… one of the leadership calls here in the United States.
youtube.com/watch?v=4eOjkfreFgE&feature=youtu.be
Here is some more OneCoin propaganda:
More USA propaganda:
(sorry could not post the picture, but he said his last weeks earnings were…..DRUM-ROLL….$7148.34
1 billion?? LOL
maybe 250.000.000 but not even close 1.000.000.000!
and they buy the cheapest Crypto Casino they can find for 100.000€?
Don’t over-estimate it. 🙂
It will primarily be used by a very few OneCoin investors, playing video slot machines.
I checked all jackpots >100 CR to find some games that actually had been used by someone, and then I checked “Top 3 winners” for each of those games. I found 3 different user names = 3 people had been active in 4 days (not counting “random activity”)
TOP 3 Winners / jackpots (75 slot games total)
3 * bcool2 “The Great Escape” jackpot 1,012.50 CR
3 * bcool2 “Cool Treasuries” jackpot 2,087.50 CR
3 * bcool2 “The Reel Mob” jackpot 1,657.50 CR
3 * jamte7 “Cleopatra Ancient Treasures” jackpot 376.25 CR
3 * jamte7 “Safari Reels” jackpot 770.50 CR
3 * shaheagle2 “Super Soccer Star 2” jackpot 134.45 CR
3 people have been active in a total of 6 games. Some unknown people have tried a few of those other slot games there too (it may be the same 3 people, but I didn’t bother to check).
Those “online casinos” are not very expensive to buy. I2G Infinity 2 Global had one, but I believe it was from a different “casino software provider”.
License № LGA/CL4/599/2009
Vuetec Gaming Limited
According to their own figures. 350,000 members in 9 months, works out to be approximately 1300 new members a day.
Pretty impressive numbers for only getting a couple hundred likes on their Facebook page. If, they keep growing at the same rate, Walmart should start fearing their ranking as a top income company.
And 3 out of 350,000 members seem to be interested in online casino. 🙂
The real number of members is probably a few thousand, if we ignore people “reserving their places in the network”. Members like that are usually fake ones.
Serbastian Greenwood just did a webnar ( I will post a link later for anyone wanting to listen to their bull shit ) but here is one amazing fact he threw out.
They have 285 members who are making the maximum on commissions.
They are each making 35,000 euro a week. So top 285 combined are takin out 9,975,000 euro a week, and since everyone is makin money they still have 385,000 more members to pay…. So they must be paying out 20-50 million euro a week just in commissions plus they are splitting & doubling everyone’s investment every 90 days….
All this without a single coin being sold on the open market…. They have one hell of a accounting system, but it must be all on the up & up …. Because they have been audited.
How stupid can their people be…. At this rate the top earning 285 will take out over 1/2 billion euro this year in commissions alone…
I really hope the authorities step in quick before too many get burned – and they will get burned.
Too many snakes out there conning people to join this now “to double their money!”. This is how some of these scamming pimps are advertising now, like Rune F on the MMG forum.
That’s 35,000 Euro in Ponzi points right? Are they actually transferring cash yet?
Their eWallet is in a sad state of affairs. wallet.onepay dot eu Checkout the about section!
I am not sure… People here in U.S.A. posting they are getting paid every Monday…
Being points or money…who knows, but who the hell would want points???
hahaha funny joke there is NO about section, you are not doubling your money you are doubling your points.
Anybody with any knowledge of crypto currencies will tell you in 10 seconds this is a scam unless they are trying to sell you in.
They keep comparing this to Bitcoin but the two are completely different in so many ways.
Its sucha scam and most of them know it just wont admit it like most ponzi hahahaha
Why do you focus on their figures? 🙂
The number of members have been explained by “the Conligus team”. Conligus collapsed in February 2015. It probably didn’t generate many new members to OneCoin.
Conligus.org was most active in Italy and Spain. It reached a peak in early December 2014 (active from August 2014 to late March 2015). It didn’t have many real members, it only reached a 20,000 position on the Alexa ranking ( = few active members). It didn’t have any measureable visitors from China, Hong Kong or other Asian countries.
Conligus.com was active (primarily in Germany) from late September 2014 to early November 2014. It reached a 45,000 rank in Alexa = few active members. It didn’t have any measureable visitors from Asian countries.
Conligus collapsed in February 2015. People are usually not very eager to follow an upline into a new opportunity when the old one has collapsed. OneCoin has probably bought a member list with mostly fake members, “to be able to look more successful than it really is”.
OneCoin probably has a few thousand members.
OneCoin.eu was active from late November 2014 and started to collapse in late December 2014. It reached a peak in late December 2014, with an Alexa rank of 35,000 = not very active. In mid January 2015 the Alexa rank was close to 100,000, before it started to grow again.
Current peak in global ranking seems to be appr. 9,000 = relatively active (but not very impressive for an income opportunity).
As a comparison, yr.no (weather forecast) has a current peak in global rank of appr. 1,300 = thousands of daily visitors from multiple countries (e.g. farmers in Sweden, South Africa, Czech Repubic, Poland).
My guess is that the real number of members in OneCoin may be 1 or 2% of their figures = 3,500 – 7,000 real members.
My guess is supported by the fact that they had to fake the number of attendees to the Dubai meeting, showing a photo or a footage of a “huge audience” on the screen, carefully avoiding to show the real audience most of the time.
It’s supported by the low number of casino users, by Alexa ranking and by general online activity and “footprint” of the OneCoin members.
This is a copy of a SPAM email I received just minutes ago. These are the types of people the authorities need to go after ASAP!
@Rockfish — you have to remember, in MLM “fake it till you make it” is treated as the truth, not a saying.
They treat it as self-fulfilling prophecy. Thus, analyzing what they claim to be the truth is often waste of time… it’s what they WANTED to be true.
I post their numbers for one reason & one reason only…. To show how stupid anyone would have to be to beleive them…
Anyone with common sense could look at the figures and realize no business could afford to payout the commissions they say they do, and still guarantee a doubling, not once, but twice of your invesentment.
My post are sarcastic to show their stupidly.
How about starting a list of OneCoin promoters here on this site so there is a record of them for future reference.
It’s time these serial ponzi scheme pimps get the attention and scrutiny they deserve.
In Ponzi schemes, the income claims will usually be about “points” (onecoins).
I can take a look at those posts if you tell me where to find them?
The brain doesn’t know the difference between a back office and a bank, unless people specifically have trained it to detect the difference. So people will tell about what they SEE. In Ponzi schemes, that will typically be about virtual payouts.
The brain can’t see the difference between crypto currencies and real money either. And “get paid” can be about mining, it doesn’t need to be about commissions.
The brain can’t see the difference between “now” and “maybe in the future” either. The expected profit will look just as real as a real profit.
Most investors will mentally “cash in the profit” from the moment they decide to invest, and they will see the profit as already earned.
That’s why you have posts here where people feel they have “seen the light” (that we eventually will realize that they were right all the time).
The OneCoin thread in the MMG forum has 94 posts since August 2014. The low number of posts may be related to that it was posted in the wrong forum cathegory (in “MLM and network marketing”).
OneCoin simply hasn’t been easy to sell. I have seen people trying to market OneCoin in cryptocurrency forums. That didn’t work. People interested in cryptocurrencies will usually avoid MLM versions.
Normally it shouldn’t have been very active here either. This thread was almost dead between September 2014 and February / March 2015.
Summary:
* MMG didn’t work.
* Cryptocurrency forums didn’t work.
* “Fake it till you make it” seems to have worked on some people. People generally seem to have accepted some parts of it.
M_Norway .. this is a facebook post where they claim 285 people making $40,000.00 per week. I think Joe Piper is a USA team leader??
joseph W piper needs more updated info AND FAST 😉
-She bought her titles: bulgarian bw of the year
-She bought an ad- second cover?? I was on third cover yesterday 😉
-She stole text from other books in her second book.
-the education content is crap. Why not mention it?
-“Launch of the First online CryptoCurrency Casino”??
HAHAHA there are already 50 of them.. AND BETTER!
and the audition is fake. Have you seen the report?
Joseph W Piper = a bad fake seller of shit. or are americans THAT STUPID?
“Lock your position” is the same as “Activation Kit”, containing a free ebook “The Richest Man In Babylon”. People signing up for that will be registered as active members for 6 months.
I’m pretty sure we will find many members in that group. 🙂
I tried to google “Onecoin Compensation Plan”, and found a “Millionaire Club Asia Team” blogspot blog with a visitor counter. OneCoin isn’t very active in Asia.
I tried to listen to him for almost 10 minutes, while I had some other useful things to do. He’s really annoying and “pushing”. I lost interest very quickly.
I don’t believe he’s very successful in marketing, but he may attract some people believing in the same “push the opportunity” ideas he believe in himself.
His idea of sales methods seems to be that he will need to convince someone, that he actively will need to convince other people. The only person he will convince with that method will be himself. So he’s probably a wannabe.
He has 4 followers on Youtube. His 3 OneCoin videos have 36 – 36 – 39 views. His other identifiable videos are “Five dollar funnel” and “$20 once can change lives”.
He seems to have been active for 6 months or less in marketing, and active (as a marketer) in OneCoin for 2 weeks. He mentioned something about OneCoin Academy, so he has probably been active for more than those 2 weeks.
Link below is a treat for every thing you want to know about OneCoin. It was a Webnar from the Great Serbastin Greenwood – self titled “Master Distributor” of OneCoin.
They call it “State of the Nation” live call.
youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=GFkxswTLTeI
It has 42 views, some of them probably from this website. 🙂
Finnish “OneCoin 2015” from Tommi Haapalainen has 4,759 views.
Swedish OneCoin videos have around 1,500 views
Official channel “One Coin” has 1,621 followers.
* “OneCoin and Conligus. When two Giants join forces” 1 month ago 4,894 views
* “Coin Vegas” 2 weeks ago 2,699 views
* “Audit Presentation. Dubai Event” 1 week ago 1,945 views
– – – – –
The number of views and followers reflect a few thousand paying members. Finland seems to be the number 1 country, with Sweden as a runner up. Many of the original organizers lives in Sweden.
I believe we should look at the numbers (followers, views, Alexa ranking, etc.) rather than on how “noisy” people are in marketing. “Empty barrels can make a lot of noise, etc.”. Most OneCoin promoters will try to make it look much larger than it really is, and we shouldn’t reflect the same type of view.
I can’t wait for this scam to collapse! I am fed up with seeing the same scamming dirtbags (ie Rune F) stealing from people and getting away with it!
Rune F is noisy but not very successful. Look at post #2. He’s an “MLM junkie”, but he’s not very skilled. You will find 2 programs here started by him. They managed to recruit appr. 15 members each before they collapsed after 1 or 2 months.
He’s sometimes the reason for why programs fail. For OneCoin, he started a recruitment thread in the wrong forum cathegory in the MMG forum, under “MLM and network marketing” instead of “Hybrid programs”.
That last cathegory is where most passive investors will look for new opportunites, where Ponzi schemes usually will be marketed. So he will sometimes ruin the market for more experienced ones, because they won’t be allowed to start new competing threads about the same company.
credit cards still not working:
youtube.com/watch?v=E8axRNj1YFc
Now I see, how nice of Mr. Greenwood to point out that the credit card processors don’t like the way people use credit cards, so that is why they can not use them to pay for OneCoin….
And I thought all along they just did not want part of this Ponzi Scheme…. How silly of me. Serbastin & Dr. Ruja are always right.
What he mean is they got too many chargebacks from customers who suddenly figured out it was a scam or affiliates were using stolen credit cards).
Credit cards offer refund protection for 30-60 days. Bank wires do not.
Either they don’t want to accept cards anymore due to the high volume of chargebacks or their merchant account was revoked due to the chargebacks/suspicious business model and can’t get another merchant account.
What I meant was that Rune F doesn’t personally produce much results.
He may indirectly achieve some results if he manages to recruit other people that are more skilled than himself, e.g. if he “accidentally” have joined a program other people can be interested in.
For OneCoin, he was TS in the forum thread in the MMG forum from August 2014. It means that the moderators there will delete other direct recruitment attempts from others as “hijacking”, making it more difficult for others to use MMG as a recruitment tool.
The thread will become less useful to others, and they will not be very eager to join him either. So he will actually slow down the recruitment if he’s placed in a position like that.
I have classified him as “a small fish, pretending to be a bigger one”, i.e. I don’t really believe he deserves to be classified as a bigger fish.
I don’t believe Joe Piper deserves to be classified as a “big fish” either.
It is so bizarre to just watch & listen to some if their webinars or YouTube videos.
They have them every night and it is always the same thing…. Push, push, push now is the time. Get rid of your friends who don’t think the way you do…. Recurit new friends and and surround yourself with them.
They are still insisting Forbes magazine is real & since so many are questioning it… All forbes editions are going to do a cover story on Dr. ruja because she is becoming so famous….
Forbes Magazine IS real. 🙂
The cover page is real too. The only problem is that it’s not the front cover, but a paid advertisement styled as an inside cover.
I owe one, THE REAL ONE. (how often do you have to point that?)
Any ideas what to do with it? 😉
All they have to do is a search on Forbes site search and see nothing shows up.
So, Ben has a copy…. Maybe a secret admirer of the Great Dr. Ruja
and if I had the false one (could get it from Ruja in Dubai), what would I be then?
Well, if it was autographed, it would make a nice fire starter. But, if you pledged your alligence and promised to worship her…. You may be able to replace Sebastian Greenwood as her lover & master distributior ( whatever the hell that is )
I wouldn’t do that for all the money (and Onecoins + Tokens) in the world >:o
4th of juli is a holiday in the US. I doubt they’ll launch anything in the US.
Ben…. OneCoins are as good as gold… Accounting to them they are backed up by gold stored in a vault in Dubai.
How can you pass this up??? They are going to show how to turn 5000 Euro into 1.5 million Euro in 90 days….
Haha I saw it today On Fb yes. Mynet.
Maybe you have seen this scum earlier?? China members are manipulated strongly. 176.000 of 358.000 should be from China. I’ve seen hardly anyone from China on FB or Yt. The first page over new members show a lot of Chinese new members. But their names are… FAKE?
here are some examples:
yyh7733 xc119 XC110 hl4308 wxz1681122 xxw6666 zgx4085 ll6129 agh3996 lly11188 th790 wangcm678 CYQ18887 gyh7187 xxww vkblj368 rwd5588 tll206265 WJJ333 zfz9533 lj51888 sm83 CJXZJYZZH xxw9999 trz77768 wlq271436 zyx8883 trz77767 zjr1688 gry6661 lp6129 wgl86253 wcy88888 hl1319 ysp7778 zsh67892
tinypic.com/r/359zfrm/8
tinypic.com/r/ir2nmr/8
i62.tinypic.com/k1qj4z.png
Ruja! What the hell do they smoke during your education???
lol. that is some serious scammage going on there.
I have noticed they are now quickly removing any negative posts from their Facebook page.
More BREAKING NEWS…. I just found out by listening to a USA webinar for OneCoin ( on my way home from work ), that just when I thought nothing more could be revealed about the Great Dr. Ruja, today they announced that she is now a member of MENSA, putting her in the top 2% of IQ Worldwide.
They said this will prove that the company has great leadership at top.
best time to write should be now. 0.44 now in bulgaria
Well, I plan a new video .. Best of Dr Ruja (from the webinars) I will name the video after mensa. I don’t think they will be happy to hear how stupid she really is.
by the way, Juha Parviala said that the founder of the Bitcoin is now working with Dr Ruja.
He joined OneCoin because he saw how great Onecoin is coming to be. Maybe that’s why Sweden is hot right now.
I have been banned from posting on OneCoin Facebook page. I did just message the JackAss ( who ever he is ) that is making the USA hangout videos that they put out every night…
He is so sure forbes scam is legit, that he challenges anyone to 10,000.00 USD to prove him wrong. He has a copy right in front of him.
I hope you’re being sarcastic, as taking that as “serious” would have sunk OneCoin for sure.
NOBODY knows who is the founder of BitCoin, who went by online handle “Satoshi Takamoto”. NO ONE has seen him (or if they did, knew him to be Satoshi Takamoto). Thus, it’s be IMPOSSIBLE to verify if he joined ANYTHING.
Any one who more than superficial crap about Bitcoin would have known that. And only scammers would pass that on with a straight face.
“The brain will easily get confused”.
A description like that can probably be used to identify WHERE people are misleading themselves, and WHY they are misled.
People will be confused because they SEE it as money. The reasoning LOOKS rather meaningful, e.g. it won’t trigger any reactions “It doesn’t work that way!”.
There’s probably possible to find a few places there where the right question or comment will trigger some reactions, where people will be forced to THINK “Is it really so?”.
I know that. But he claimed he was from Sweden and he knew him. 1-2 months ago that was mentioned on meetings in Sweden several times.
Juha drinks too much 😉
Do you have a source I can listen to for this? Was it a OneCoin insider who stated that or just some random affiliate trying to gain signups?
Blue,
Try this… I think it is the one, but please do not watch it alone, as I do not want you to fall under his power and then run out and invest your life savings into OneCoin.
youtube.com/watch?v=cqffdAM0_JY
Blue, If you don’t have time to listen to all the hilarious bullshit… He starts talking about “The Great Ruja” about 26 minutes into his video …. Everyone enjoy.
One main reason for why people can fall for a scam like Onecoin is that they already believe in certain ideas about money, value, investment, currencies, Bitcoin, Bitcoin mining.
Many of those ideas are half truths, e.g. the Forbes Magazine story is a half truth. It’s not really an interview but a paid advertising campaign. It’s not really the front cover but an inside cover. It’s a country specific version rather than the international version of Forbes. It’s not what people believe it is but most people can still be fooled by the story.
All the MLM cryptocurrencies seem to rely heavily on comparisons to Bitcoin, e.g. “The next Bitcoin”, “better than Bitcoin”, bitcoin exchange rate graphs, the bitcoin mining idea.
“Better than Bitcoin” is usually about “backed by real gold”, “backed by a reserve fund”, “centralized”.
Investment ideas are usually about how much the value will grow in the future, e.g. when the coins will be publicly offered. “Get in early while the price still is low”. “No risk, the currency can only increase in value”.
HOW TO AFFECT THOSE IDEAS
“If you wish to change how people see something, then you must first identify how they see it”.
That’s plain and simple communication logic, you must communicate their ideas rather than your own.
New ideas will need to be close to the ideas they already have.
Conflicting ideas should preferrably be some ideas they already have, but haven’t combined correctly yet.
EXAMPLE
I used some of those methods in the thread BLGM Better Living Global Marketing (penny auction Ponzi scheme). I used “John’s” own ideas about the transactions. His money ended up in his sponsor’s bank account, while he got some “Hong Kong dollars” in a back office he could use to buy “investment units” with 2000 “bids” in each unit.
Investors like John will usually change their mind if you introduce other ideas they already have accepted as true, their own ideas about truth. So I compared his idea of the value of those “investment units” with other types of investment units, e.g. “units of gold”, “units of orange juice”.
Units of gold (e.g. coins) can easily be sold in a normal market. The market value will not be affected if one investor pay a very high price for a few units of gold.
Units of bids will have a very limited market. It’s only people like himself (members of an opportunity) that realisticly can be interested in buying those units. The market value outside the network will not be affected by the price the investors pay for it inside that network.
Units of orange juice usually have relatively low market value as an investment. That value won’t be affected even if the investors pay a very high price.
Most normal investors will not be very interested if they’re offered an investment of $1,160 per unit of orange juice. Investors simply won’t believe in claims about “imagine the raising value of your orange juice investment, when the orange juice will be offered publicly”.
– – – – –
John already had some ideas about the value of gold, so he quickly disappeared from the thread when I mentioned that, and used the term “market value” rather than “value of investment”.
The orange juice was used to create some “contrast” to the idea of value.
“Entrepreneur of the year in Europe” He is just making things up as he talks. It was “Business Woman of the Year in Bulgaria” and was probably a sham award.
Because Europe is a country, We all speak French here and Paris is our capital.
Yeah that Mensa line. I don’t know where he sourced that. It wasn’t on the powerpoint.
Blue, Their hangout videos are the same thing… Night after night, just made up shit to brainwash their 330,000 made up followers…. Sell,sell,sell we will all be rich.
Their open trading is to begin on the 15th… That will be interesting, as will July 4th opening here in the USA
My previous post was extremely long.
It had 3 elements:
1. Identify the problem (from one specific perspective)
2. Put up some basic solutions to it.
3. Identify some methods.
ONECOIN INVESTORS
To change the mind of some potential or current OneCoin investors, the methods will need to be different.
People generally have very vague ideas about value, what value really is and the different types of value. Usually many different types can be mixed together in one big group called “VALUE”.
People can be willing to pay for something that doesn’t really have any monetary value or value as an investment, but still can feel like “the right type of value” because of their own expectations or ideas.
OneCoin investors pay for those tokens because they believe it has some type of value (as a digital currency), a value that will rise from 100 euro to 396 euro within few months, before they can use it to buy another type of digital currency via mining, and that the other digital currency will rise in value from 0.60 euro to 50 or 100 euro within 3 years, reaching a value of 33,000 euro or 66,000 euro.
The value of the tokens?
The tokens can be used to pay for onecoin mining. It doesn’t have any value other than that, e.g. the investors can’t reasonably expect to sell tokens to people outside the network. The market value will be zero.
Price?
The fact that people pay 100 euro for 1000 token (or 5,000 euro for 60,000 tokens) will not affect the market value. The market value will be zero anyway, unaffected by the price they have paid.
Here’s one of the confusions. People often confuse PRICE and VALUE, they see it as the same factor. They don’t separate between price and value.
Monetary value?
The monetary value of the tokens will be zero. Tokens don’t have any monetary function outside the network. If they use tokens to pay for mining, then the exhange of value will be zero for zero.
One of the confusions is here. The vague ideas people have about value will make them accept ideas that simply are untrue.
“Growth and splits”?
The purchasing power of the tokens will grow, but since they only can be used to purchase mining services then the monetary value will be zero.
Here’s one of the confusions. People confuse that internal growth of purchasing power inside the network with purchasing power in the real world.
One way to attack that idea is to focus on the end result, when all those onecoins have grown in value.
The only investors here are the members of the network. They probably plan to sell the onecoins to each others for that price, so everyone can make a profit on the investment.
“Jerin” in post #246 plans to buy onecoins from “?” in post #258.
“?” in post #258 plans to buy onecoins from “Jerin” in post #246
Then they will both have made a profit on the investment. They will also have the same number of onecoins as they initially had. The profit can be used to pay off the loan they took to buy onecoins from the other, so they will also become debt free.
Today the Hungarian National Bank issued a warning to potential investors regarding OneCoin!
english.mnb.hu/Root/MNB/Sajtoszoba/mnbhu_pressreleases/mnbhu_pressreleases_2015/mnbhu_sajtokozlemeny_20150610
The article is hungarian only, correctly pointing on the fact, that onecoin is centralized and don’t have any real market value, tagging the whole thing as a ponzi.
Thanks for the heads up Bitminer – https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin-investment-warning-issued-by-bank-of-hungary/
Finally governments take notice.
Looking at Alexa onecoin site shows early signs of leveling off.
check out my 3 latest videos… a new bullshitting show, starring OneCoins stars Dr Ruja and Mr Greenwood.
youtube.com/channel/UCAo7jAnXUNYKvdpx69B9kMw/videos
i think i never laughed so loud over a youtube video.
turn the sound up and watch it with the autogenerated subtitles.
“that’s why it’s so bad at bowling at cloyne bed”
Her Oxford english is outstanding!
youtube.com/watch?v=1kYAMG6tvI4
Chatter is going around that OneCoin is suppose to split today, 6/12/15. Do you know anything about it splitting today, or in the future?
Nope. But it will only be the tokens that will split. The money is still deposited in Ruja’s bank account, except for all the money she has already used. 🙂
For some reason, the experienced ones like Ruja and Nigel seem to be more interested in money than in tokens. They will gladly give people tokens if people give them money.
The investors on the other hand seem to be more interested in tokens than in money. They like something that can “split” and “grow”, and money doesn’t work that way.
how does one split ‘0’?
Basic math …. Any thing times zero = zero..
They never really had anything…. Ruja got their money & all they have are memories of their money.
Does anyone really know the educational background of the so ( or self ) called Dr. ruja ?
That’s WHY you can split them. Digital currencies cost nothing to produce, so they can easily double the number of tokens whenever they want.
Money doesn’t work that way. To double the amount of money, you will need some people bringing in more money.
That’s why Ruja tries to attract people willing to pay for tokens. It’s the only way for her to multiply her money.
I thought Ruja terminated Nigel, a falling out?
It’s possible, I’m not updated on that topic. I assumed that he was still a part of the team, but working in the background.
He was “officially” terminated on February 24 2015, according to Facebook, “because he lived up to his online reputation”.
That’s one of the reasons for why people didn’t really believe in it. It seemed too naive to believe that he wouldn’t live up to his reputation. 🙂
facebook.com/permalink.php?id=1474707356148392&story_fbid=1556911947927932
So she gets rid of him for betrayal of trust and says it will be hard for him to find another project, but what about her?
From the things I have read about her, if true, she doesn’t have any room to talk!
Some are saying that this could be a bigger scam than Zeek. I guess time will tell…
Why hasn’t someone gone after her? It’s not like she is hiding.
That was another reason for why we didn’t believe her. She tried to tell people that “you won’t need to search for him on the internet”.
That last piece of information wasn’t really necessary. It would make some sense if she already knew that he had planned a less visible role.
Got it! Amazing! I just found a YouTube video that an investor did yesterday.
He was saying, they are all looking forward to the “split” tomorrow (Fri. 12th).
I haven’t found anything yet, that says it has. Do you know?
It may not even be real, maybe just a marketing tactic to have gotten more people in before today, just a thought?
1.
According to Alexa rankings (visits to websites), it is much smaller than it pretends to be. There’s a lot of fake members mixed in. I analysed Alexa rank in post #337.
Current peak (Global rank) is around 9,000 = “decent enough, many members”. Many members can be anything from 2,000 members to 20,000 members, it depends on what people do when they visit the website.
2.
In 4 days, only 3 of the so called 350,000 members had been interested in the online casino CoinVegas.eu. I analysed it in post #327.
People had only tried about 12 of the 75 slot machine games, 4 days after the casino had opened. It was unchanged the 5th day.
A split in tokens will probably be real.
It doesn’t cost anything to give people more tokens, and it will make some people become more interested (they will feel their money is growing).
Monday (June 15) will be a telling day. This is their announced day for open trading & selling of their Onecoins.
If it’s through that exchange website they set up then it’s not really open. They obviously control that and nobody but OneCoin affiliates are going to use it.
In effect all they’ve done is put the internal exchange OneCoin controlled onto a separate website.
Greenwood – We will create thousands of millionaires in 2015
youtu.be/i6ZfmyvnQP0
Greenwood – Oneacademy future plans
youtu.be/D7Ake4obAEs
I don’t think they are going to be trading on xcoinx. It will probably all be done on the dashboard. The xcoinx site is just for referencing and used for deceit.
They are now claiming to be #2, right under Bitcoin. They were #3 a week ago. (on their sham xcoinx site that is)
They haven’t made any public announcement in 11 days. Also Alexa shows onecoin eu site leveling and dipping. Ripe time for a split.
Does Serbastian EVEN thinks before he talks????
They are going to create thousands & thousands & thousands of millionaires in 2015. Does he know that adds up to billions & billions & billions of dollars?
It’s not supposed to make sense. They are targeting the gullible that will not research or are incapable of doing the math.
They know how to trigger brain chemicals to part you from your cash.
lol did you see my next video in your dreams??
“Sebastian triggering brain chemicals to buy tycoons” Lol but i have a better name already.
Tycoon – the sexiest package we sell.
Heck with forbes ….. I hear Ruja is in Bulgarian Playboy next month
ahahaha 😀 maybe she’s already in contract with Brazzers xD
Someone said Monday the (15th) is when the split is to happen. It was suppose to have happened last Friday the (12th).
Was that all a lie to get more people in? Who owns the xcoinx site?
So……Tragical??? How low IQ you might have if you join after listening to this bullshit? And I mean not only bullshit..
youtube.com/watch?v=J71h3ejng3k
Trere is a lot of and a lot of and a LOT of bullshit in the speach.
look at what the USA facebook minions are posting:
Now…. If it was a VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY good source, then I could beleive it.
Splits occur when signups slow down. The higher the split barometer goes, the slower the money is coming in.
They are giving affiliates an opportunity to get more signups before the split, making people work double time.
Once the split happens, affiliates don’t go into a rush to sign people up as they would have just before a big split. They are prolonging it for this reason.
xcoinx is owned by OneCoin. That is all you need to know. They moved themselves up to #2 now. They are the second best cryptocurrency in the world!
Their demographic are the type to never question anything, they already paid a lot of money to join, so emotions are tied to the program.
They don’t want to believe it is all a lie.
Xcoinx owned by OneCoin, wow. OneCoiners aren’t going to believe that, and will want proof? Where is your proof of that?
A friend of a friend bought a small pkg. believes in it 100%, and said it is trading now, and the split is happening on Tuesday (16th), go checkout xcoinx.com.
Interesting, how I hadn’t heard of xcoinx until reading it from someone’s post here, and then I asked what it was, and now I know.
I don’t think anyone is going to believe what you said, “xcoinx is owned by OneCoin. That is all you need to know.”
Do you think having solid proof would lend some credibility to you saying that, or credibility period, and would maybe get some attention, maybe some hope of waking up some people, just a thought?
Heck, I know it would be for me! This is very sad to me, for all involved, but especially for many that don’t have money, and have sacrificed something for this. Soooo sad….!
NOLINK://onecoin.com and NOLINK://xcoinx.com were both purchased from SEDO back-to-back on March 26, 2015. Like immediately after one another.
NOLINK://cryptodomains.com/onecoin-com-sold-for-11000-at-sedo-dnjournal/
Look at the next sold link.
It is the only “exchange” that even lists OneCoin. It is also the only exchange OneCoin ever advertises.
I’m sure more evidence can be drummed up. Unrelated to the sale, The FAQ section was stolen from Bitstamp and not even changed. Everything about xcoinx is in a port state of development and “coming soon”
Oh, wow! Yes, I see that on xcoinx, “coming soon.” What’s coming soon?
This is just awful! Do you think they will open in the US, even though they announced at the end of May they did, but now it’s July 4th. officially? I thought May was official?
Someone said, maybe in this post, they were cleared with the SEC issue, whatever that was all about?
Do you think any of them will set foot in the US? There seems to be a lot of characters (shady) on stag with Ruja, of course, if all true?
Have have not seen nor heard any chatter of trading… But, if they want to buy and sell worthless coins amongst themselves… So be it.
Why would anyone else want them… You can’t use them anywhere, except their childish casino.
Well, that’s true. So with the casino, if the affiliates use their coins or tokens and they lose, then that gets funneled back into the company, right?
Is the One World Foundation set up the same way, donate and it goes right back to the company, or I should say, Ruja?
It will be interesting to see if there is a split on Tuesday now, (16th). It was suppose to on Friday (12th), that’s come and gone, and today, Monday (15th), soon to come and go too.
You would think this would throw Red Flags, doubts to the affiliates, but I guess not, must be some good kool-aid they are drinking or smokin’ some good stuff.
I try to find a way when people could edit 1 cell (50000). Anybody knows?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dyS9hzrZ0TWqH-tL1-FKWx-JHlSW8OZFmadIKsmfezI/edit?usp=sharing
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-yF5RYYjCnOsfm_aMAz0sP1qFi9jQpRh5yq5gqWo0Dg/edit?usp=sharing
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_7c_Nm3Ys9NpHPExsSLh-zmZPDsreGMwNRJblKwDyZU/edit?usp=sharing
Ben, I looked at your links, and you have invested time in all you have presented on your sites. I like the $100 bill!
I wonder if the split happened today, as projected, and everybody feels rich having doubled their tokens? So now they can go mining for coins? Still not fully understanding all this, maybe best I don’t.
Does anyone have any updates?
For being such a “successful” program, they sure don’t interact with their Facebook much.
Their last post was like 2 weeks ago. Do they communicate more often through the dashboard?
Does anyone know if the split happened with OneCoin on Tuesday?
I have no idea. We don’t see it as important. It can be compared to the VIP Profit Points in ZeekRewards. I didn’t focus on the “daily profit share” there.
“Something” is growing, but it surely isn’t money. People only believe it’s a type of money.
From the MMG forum post #112:
Menu “File” → “Download as”
They can’t edit it online, so the only option is to download a copy of it. I actually tried to edit it online, but it didn’t work.
If your intention was to post an “Online OneCoin Calculator” then you will need a different solution (not upload a file, but upload a solution).
One example:
ablebits.com/office-addins-blog/2014/03/28/excel-online-create-web-based-spreadsheets/
It has the following articles:
Note:
I didn’t CHECK anything there, I only looked for the right TYPE of material.
the split happened yesterday.
postimg.org/image/c6t5gefpj/
50% you mine at once
50% blocked for 30 days
postimg.org/image/h1f4q67ff/
1.05 1.1 The Circus is rolling again 😉
I wanted to see the splitbarometer but it is “for maintaince”
These people here really believe the are the next Bill Gates. They are yakking how they are all becoming Multi-millioniars and are planing on buying yachts, islands, and retiring just by their one single investment.
There are going to be a lot of long faces in a few months.
i m from china and my best friend joined this fu*king game! go to the hell Onecoin!
OneCoin will make thousands & thousands & thousands of millionaires in 2015
A million in OneCoins that won’t be worth anything in real life is the most likely result.
Ross, is it true that 80% of Chinese in China are in OneCoin? I find that hard to believe and really don’t.
Loni… Another new math invented by onecoin. 1 billion people in China, so 80% of that is 800 million, yet membership is only 400,000 ???
Also, if all 400,000 bought the biggest package it would equal 2 billion in assets, yet onecoin is able to create 3000 millionaires equaling 3 billion and still have the funds to triple the investment of the remaining 397,000 members. I have to learn their math.
Ross!
Now 218,000 of 417,000 members are suposed to be from China.
I haven’t seen any single event from China.
I’ve noticed also strange names from new China members. Any reason to such names??
xxw6666 zgx4085 ll6129 agh3996
lly11188 th790 wangcm678 CYQ18887
gyh7187 xxww vkblj368 rwd5588
tll206265 WJJ333 zfz9533lj51888
sm83 CJXZJYZZH xxw9999 trz77768
wlq271436 zyx8883 trz77767 zjr1688
gry6661 lp6129 wgl86253 wcy88888
hl1319 ysp7778 zsh67892
Ben, it could be that they do not understand the Latin alphabet and select random set of letters and numbers, although there is a pattern in some of the naming.
The Chinese signup page could have a built in username generator as well. Just speculating.
Also found more ebook stealing.
The Collapse of the Dollar and How to Profit from It By James Turk, John Rubino €10 (Level 1 Package, Page 7)
NOLINK://books.google.se/books?id=zQxJEJNQXfIC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Add to your tumbler.
Another one:
Rich Dad’s Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver by Michael Maloney (Level 1 package).
the level 3 is also found for free on the web.
dummies.com/how-to/content/why-chart-securities-price-trends.html
funny to see this list growing 🙂
Are you all talking about Ruja’s book “Learning for Profit” or the levels you get when you buy a package, I assume the latter?
The info. is stolen from other books? If I have this right, the levels are based on the package you come in with, and then you get access to an ebook, and some of the material is stolen?
How does one know what is in the levels if you haven’t joined to get access to the ebook to know some of the info is stolen?
Wonder if the authors know, and if they do, is there anything they can do to Ruja? Blue’s link produced only one website on the first page. I will try again.
Loni, the PDFs are accessible directly, they are not locked behind a paywall. We are talking about the education packages you are technically buying when you give them money.
NOLINK://onecoinscam.com/#plagiarism
See the list and comparisons yourself.
Also look at ben’s compilation:
NOLINK://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4CyzrtK43UvY09KY19XeXBQMG8/view
I wouldn’t be surprised if her “Learning for Profit” was full of stolen content. We can’t tell for sure as it’s not in English. Only Bulgarian and Chinese I think.
Ok, thank you Blue! Learning….!
You can buy almost anything on the internet, from fake members to fake Facebook “Likes” to fake Alexa ranking to fake followers on Facebook, Youtube or Twitter.
Donald Trump has a huge number of followers and likes from the Phillippines, Indonesia, Mexico, Malaysia, etc., from people who don’t really care who he is as long as they get paid to “like” him.
It’s not very expensive either. 5,000 “Likes” on Facebook can be bought for $1.80 USD ($0.36 per 1,000 “Likes”), according to one of the sources I checked.
I am just getting ready to start this business but am still a tad hesitant.
The person I am signing up with is someone I trust but he has more money to waste.
He is a very well off, He placed me first beneath him and already placed a millionaire below me and several 5k packages (I know we get paid off the weaker leg so having a power leg doesnt help much in this comp plan) BUT I am still leaning toward this MAYBE a scam, but if that is true why have a few people well known in the bitcoin world just joined with 5k packages.
Is everyone stupid to join this, or is their hope in the numbers and the 500,000 people who have joined are making a new currency?
Thank you for any input. I truly want an honest answer as I am not well versed in cryptocurrency but am well versed in MLM.
For the same reason you’re considering it.
The promise of Ponzi riches makes otherwise intelligent people ignore the obvious and do very stupid things.
OZ.. thank you, that is what I was thinking and if they have one million dollars, 5k is nothing, compared to $500.00 being half of my paycheck.
One other thing– The split did happen and they are doing business in the USA (does this mean anything?).
The ONLY reason I am leaning towards being foolish and doing this is because I do believe the world will move away from cash. and no one thought myspace could be replaced and then came along facebook.
There is a chance a new cyber coin will surpass bitcoin and the power in numbers from a MLM is huge. When there are two million people in this will that matter yes or no?
Thank you OZ for being helpful to a dork (me).
Only that EU recruitment has probably slowed down, and now they’re going after the big Ponzi $$$ in the US.
There’s enough suckers there that probably think OneCoin being based in EU means a regulator won’t eventually shut them down. So it’ll probably work out for them initially.
Then again, given the size of OneCoin and response we’ve seen over the last 12 months, maybe not.
I’m personally in wait and see mode on this one. We know enough about the business model to confirm OneCoin is a scam, this is now the quiet time before the avalanche of regulatory warnings hit (Hungary has kick-started things off but nothing too detailed).
Different motives though. The investment mindset and lack of outside participation in an MLM cryptocurrency will always stall them.
As such the cryptocurrency just winds up being worthless Ponzi points, with talk about getting the public to use the coins only after funds have been invested.
That doesn’t work because nobody’s going to use coins backed by Ponzi investors, who only “believe” in the coin because they think new suckers buying into the coins (Ponzi points) are going to make them rich.
If anything these frauds are damaging otherwise legitimate cryptocurrency ventures, as they’re likely going to be responsible for increased regulation being implemented at some point. All it will take is a major cryptocurrency MLM Ponzi bust in the US for that to happen.
And OneCoin are seemingly positioning themselves to be that catalyst.
OZ< GOD bless you, I will hold off.
By all means don’t just take my word for it. Do your own research, starting with OneCoin’s business model.
Work out where the revenue is coming from and that should be where your due diligence begins and ends, at least as far as investing goes.
Blog coverage will typically extend deeper than that (reader comments are worth reading on our OneCoin articles), but that’s above and beyond what you need to work out as an investor.
If you give your money to someone in exchange for something that doesn’t have any real world value, then you will most likely end up as a victim of a fraud.
Your money ends up either in your friends bank account, in his upline’s bank account or in Ruja’s bank account. The monetary value ends up there in a bank account that belongs to someone else.
You will get a code or a membership package in exchange. It doesn’t mean that the code or membership package have any monetary value. The content of the membership package can be completely worthless.
You will have much better chances if you realize that tokens or onecoins don’t have any monetary value.
The best way to make money is to do like your sponsor does = try to sell the codes or membership packages to other people. If you can’t make money on recruitment then you shouldn’t join either.
Thanks OZ and M NORWAY for your input.. my gut is yelling NO, but my Head is yelling YES 🙂 I am so conflicted lol.
Have you seen this nolinkhttp://b4bschwaben.de/nachrichten/kempten-oberallgaeu_artikel,-Gusswerk-Waltenhofen-ist-verkauft-_arid,48338.html
IT is from 2010 and says Dr. Ignatova bailed out a company by buying it and she is very well respected in the article and all her credentials match (law degree/Havard/etc):
nolinkhttp://www.b4bschwaben.de/nachrichten/kempten-oberallgaeu_artikel,-Gusswerk-Waltenhofen-positives-Fazit-nach-Insolvenz-_arid,109222.html
I haven’t, but I’m also ignoring most of the marketing rhetoric surrounding OneCoin.
Marketing crap doesn’t override a business model. Iganatova could be Mother Teresa reincarnate for all it matters, OneCoin is still just a fraudulent Ponzi scheme.
It’s possible but not very likely.
The value of bitcoin is based on that it can be used in transactions in a normal market, i.e. that you have merchants accepting it as a payment method for real world goods or services.
If people stop using bitcoin as a payment method, it won’t have any value as an investment either.
OneCoin is based on a different idea, on the idea of investors joining an opportunity because they believe onecoin eventually will get some real world value.
It won’t really matter if they are the only ones accepting it.
The value of onecoin will be determined by its value as a currency = what you can buy for it in a normal market. And currently you can’t even buy a cup of coffee for 100 onecoins.
So it doesn’t really matter if there’s 2 million people that can’t buy a cup of coffee for their 100 onecoins.
Oz and M.Norway.. Thank you both so much. I really appreciate your words of wisdom.
@Misty… Do some more research regarding that factory purchase.
The good doctor and a friend/relative BANKRUPTED the company AFTER bleeding it dry and are being sued by the employees for fraud.
Below is the relevant article about the latest developments at the Gusswerk. Basically bankruptcy fraud by the good doctor.
nolinkhttp://www.dkp-muenchen.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=623:allgaeu-krimi-um-das-gusswerk-waltenhofen&catid=35:kategorie-dkp-allgaeu&Itemid=44
What language is your link in? Don’t know how to translate on my computer and not asking you to give me computer lessons here, but I only know English.
I saw under “latest” Finland is now being investigated? Isn’t Juha from Finland? yelp.com/biz/juha-parhiala-kokkola
He’s being living in Thailand for many years now? businessforhome.org/2015/05/juha-parhiala-onecoin-hits-625000-per-month/
Isn’t he the master distributor of OneCoin. Whew, he makes a lot of money from OneCoin!
I think I read somewhere, if true, he approached Ruja with the mlm arm of OneCoin and so it was born? She said she didn’t know anything about mlm/network marketing. I do find that hard to believe, don’t you all?
Someone needs to comply all this info being found, with proof and all the characters involved, been involved and write a book!
If OneCoin is going to open July 4th in the US, doesn’t that mean they have been approved by the SEC? Is there going to be an office or offices in the US? IF the SEC knows already, which I can’t imagine they don’t, why can’t it be stopped before they enter the US.
People have been signing up in the US for quite sometime now.
Is there anyway to check with the SEC to see if they were issued a license and/or document to come into the US?
Does GCR, Global Currency Reserve fall into the same category? It’s an mlm too? They are in the US operating, aren’t they? They haven’t been stopped…yet.
Language of the article is Finnish. Chrome can auto-translate.
The SEC don’t approve MLM opportunities.
If anything happens on July 4th then it will probably be a meaningless token event.
There’s definitely unregistered securities at play with the OneCoin comp plan, so they’ll need to register themselves with the SEC (which doesn’t equate to approval).
That’ll trigger an investigation so they probably won’t do that, leaving the question of what exactly are they launching in the US up in the air.
At the moment OneCoin isn’t really being promoted in the US, but if they start spamming in earnest it shouldn’t take long for somebody to notice.
Here you go Loni. The pertinent paragraphs have been translated to English here:
nolink://onecoinscam.com/who-is-dr-ruja-ignatova/#igmetall
Check under IG Metal scandal.
Got it. Thanks! Has anyone found proof on whether she got a degree from Oxford or bought it online? I think I read that somewhere in this post that she may have done that, but not seen any updates.
Do you think she will come to the US or any of her cohorts? I guess they’d be wise not to, huh?
Has anyone tried to find out if they are registered with the SEC?
Regarding the plagiarism with the educational packages OneCoiners buy at the different levels, does Ruya give any credit/references/footnotes to the author/s of where she stole the info from?
Is OneCoin allowed in China, especially with an mlm attachment?
I wonder if your friend has already received any commissions.. if I am not mistaken according to the comp plan he should have received 10% commission bonus?
Viribusunitis- Thank you, I used google translate, Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
I have heard from a very reliable source that the United States Government is going to vote on a resolution to change the name of the National Holiday on July 4th from “Independence Day” to ” OneCoin” day.
George. Yes he has gotten commissions.
Does Ruju give credit to any of the authors of the material someone said she stole? Is OneCoin in China?
Hi Misty, 2 million people joining is marketing BS.
In ponzi talk they say lots of people are going to join and you are at the beginning so you have time to cash out before it collapses.
Onecoin has ZERO real world value, thats why they want to exchange real cash for onecoin. Onecoin is NOT a cryptocurrency, yes cryptocurrencies are a huge trend but they all have cryptographic models of encryption and mining –> onecoin is a digital token, NOT a cryptocurrency.
Misty you will be exchanging real cash for worthless token/codes that you wont be able to do anything with.
Bitcoin is so popular because it is a decentralized peer to peer currency, onecoin is a centralized currency with no peer to peer trading or even real mining! look on coinmarketcap where you can see real cryptocurrencies.
Misty you want to make money thats good, you see the power of cryptocurrencies thats good also! but onecoin = SCAM.
youtu.be/Sb9H_W4UUV0
More Cover Fun 😉
youtu.be/Sb9H_W4UUV0
“Dr Ruja Paid Forbes to publish her 4xJPG… Stupid people got fooled (thinking it was an interview)… SHOW YOUR PAGES AND COVER NOW?”
Let’s see what he’ll show us 😉
Loni, why would they give credit to stolen material? The point behind those packages was for “economist genius Ruja” to teach you very high-level trading jargon which is unorganized, meangless when out of context, and waaaay over the heads of most of the affiliates.
It’s just filler garbage she sells you in exchange for money as a way of saying she sold you a product and a service, “NOT cryptocurrency.”
She is on the line for multiple counts of copyright infringement with financial gain, which is a huge crime.
Yes, this is common knowledge. They function out of Hong Kong however, a special administrative region that allows them to circumvent certain financial regulations. They even use CUPS (China Union Pay) a local payment form/credit card for the Chinese market.
You asked previously if 80% of China is in OneCoin? Perhaps you misunderstood and they said 80% of OneCoin is Chinese affiliates.
That is certainly possible, but not verifiable. The number of affiliates they claim currently is 422,000. 80% of China would make Ruja the richest most powerful person in the world. So no.
I think something very telling about OneCoin, is that people involved keep claiming they are making so much money from it already, yet if you ask them where this money is, it is in their OneCoin accounts.
So it is a number on the OneCoin singup, and no one has actually seen this money yet!
A big thank you to Ken Labine for getting the word out that Onecoin is making the same empty promises and telling the same lies that utoken did!!!
Backed by gold…double your money with splits….value only goes up..only difference is that when Onecoin fails Ruja will run with everyone’s money and hide behind the fact that she did nothing wrong…she was only selling an education product…. (Ozedit: Link to affiliate site removed)
Utoken failed and I among thousands of others were hurt. …with so many of the same promises do you really think onecoin will be any different????
This loud mouth is so threatened by the truth that he will use any tactic to fool people and build his downline! He is upset and accusing me of being the cause for so many losing millions of dollars because when they see how I contacted Forbes and brought this lie out they stay far away from Onecoin.
This man blames me for doing my due diligence about Onecoin when I was asked to look at this company to join and exposing the lies they were telling about being featured on the Forbes Magazine cover in Bulgaria for May.
He said that I didnt ask about the right magazine, that it was actually Brandvoice… what this fool keeps forgetting is that I was the one who found out it was Brandvoice when I contacted Forbes!!!!!!!!!! I EXPOSED THE ONECOIN LIE!!!!!
They then had no choice but to then change their story and let people know it was actually Brandvoice and not the actual Forbes cover…But they worded it to cover up what they did… still leaving new people who had no idea about the lie to believe they were interviewed!!!
KEN Labine has been harassing me for trying to warn others about this lie… trying to call me out as the liar! What a desperate man!
Has even accused me of being a blogger, having a fake facebook profile and asking if I was given a cut from behindmlm for trying to warn others.
Amazing how some people will never learn from their mistakes… first Utoken.. .next Onecoin…. and Ken Labine..y ou wanted a war.. You got one.
You have harassed me, called me a liar, tried to discredit me with your annoying youtube videos, have twisted my words, and disrespected me all because you have a problem with the truth … all in an effort to build your downline.
Folks… when a man goes on the attack as this one has and presents himself as this desperate… a big red flag should go up. He is an unprofessional newbie trying to make a name for himself and he doesnt care who he drags down in the process.
I continue to stand by what Forbes magazine told me when I approached them… that Onecoin was NOT featured in their Bulgarian Forbes Magazine… that Ruja wrote the so called interview herself and PAID to have it placed in their Brandvoice as an advertisement… sorry if the truth hurts you Ken labine!
Yes…I exposed the Onecoin Forbes LIE….I was the one who forced them to admit it was in Brandvoice and NOT the cover of Forbes magazine…And I have no reason to lie.
You can see the original announcement on my page and see for yourself how they tried to fool people!
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=947626258636807&id=751450324921069
in his backoffice or paid out in real cash?
I wouldn’t worry about it Jodi. All the major Ponzi schemes have their vocal shills who take to YouTube.
Zeek Rewards – David Boozer, T LeMont Silver
TelexFree – Ken Love, that annoying Castilho Brazilian guy
Achieve Community – Rodney Blackburn
They never actually address the business model, so just put them into the ignore bin. That and once the scheme is shutdown or collapses, they disappear pretty quick.
Jodi, are you in the US or overseas? I’ve never heard of Utoken and Ken Labine.
Is he in OneCoin in the US? I’m so behind on all this stuff.
Do you know whose group he is in so I can keep him on the radar and maybe prevent others from associating with him, if all this stuff is true?
What a world and times we are living in now, just keeps getting worse.
So OneCoin is like Utoken or enough similarities to be careful with getting involved in OneCoin?
Both are modeled on the Zeek Rewards Ponzi points business model. All they’ve done is replace Zeek’s penny auction facade with a pseudo-cryptocurrency (VIP points = Onecoins = uTokens).
Hi Loni… I am in the US hun… Let me catch you up what what I’m talking about.
I joined utoken probably about a year ago… after all the same things were being promised that onecoin now promises.. backed by gold… get rich off the splits… value can never go down…
But after being involved for awhile… well we all know what has happened to utoken.
Some utoken members were jumping into this new ONECOIN venture and approached me with it. When I watched the videos I was shocked at all the same promises and comp plan this company was also making.
I just laughed. But then I was sent a picture of a FORBES MAGAZINE COVER… immediately a big red flag went up because it was such poor quality.
ONECOIN was pushing this cover as Ruja and onecoin being interviewed by Forbes and being featured on the cover of the FORBES BULGARIAN MAGAZINE FOR THE MAY ISSUE.
I then decided to do my due diligence and check out this story. I didnt want to see others hurt with all the hype that goes along with this industry… like what this Ken Labine is doing to build his downline.
When I contacted Forbes they replied to me saying that RUJA and her company WAS NOT interviewed by them or featured on the Forbes Magazine… that she was in the Brandvoice that Forbes uses to let businesses pay for advertising space.
So in reality Ruja paid big money to have her ad that she wrote herself placed in this brandvoice. I could not believe how they were using this Forbes Magazine lie to deceive people.
I had been reading other concerns here on behindmlm… so that is where I decided to let everyone know about what I had been told by Forbes.
It was me who disclosed the BIG ONECOIN LIE… after people started seeing what I had found out they began asking questions… it wasnt until then that Onecoin figured that they better admit that it was in Brandvoice…
The thing is they are still calling it an interview… which is so laughable! Because it was nothing more than Ruja writing the questions and answering them…
Since all of this broke right here on behindmlm people are now on the attack. This Ken Labine that I am referring to is so threatened by the truth that he has foolishly accused me of being the sole responsible person for thousands of people not joining and because of that he insists I am the reason they will not become millionaires…
Its really quite laughable because the man thinks that by trying to discredit me he will convince others that I am some blogger or someone who was paid to expose Forbes here on behindmlm… but all he has done is bring attention to the BIG ONECOIN FORBES MAGAZINE LIE… all over again… he’s not very bright.
He seems to be a little wet behind the ears and from what I gather is new to the industry… so right now fellow marketers who are pushing onecoin are probably furious with him…because if that one thing you dont do in this field is get caught out in something like what he is doing….but eventually he will learn the hard way… lol…
He has about 3 youtube videos trying to twist my words and insist Im the blogger and being paid by behindmlm… or at least saying that behindmlm should have given me a cut of whatever money they made because of my disclosure of Onecoins lie…
He has asked me to call Forbes back and to now ask them about onecoin being in Brandvoice… but I really dont understand what difference he believes that will make since I have already made people aware that onecoin was in brandvoice and NOT on the Forbes cover… at this point he will try to grasp at anything to grow his downline…
also.. what the idiot is really doing is trying to get me to argue and engage with him… then twisting my words around… he’s that desperate for youtube views…
from now on I’ll just handle the issue right here and let him fall on his face instead of engaging him… ultimately people are going to make their own decision about Onecoin…
my only concern was that before they do they need to see through the hype and realize whats been found out and said… good or bad… then at least they are fully aware and better informed to make a choice they can live with about onecoin…
I just didnt want to see people hurt… In my case, after finding out about onecoins effort to deceive with Forbes… I decided to stay far away.
People wake-up..
This system is not about dr.Ruja/Sebastian/Juha/Pehr, it’s one big wash machine for the wrong kind of money to be a bit cleaner, mixed by the money of the sheep!
they get paid to facilitate this feature big time and hope. they can keep the money, but if it goes wrong they may hope to go to jail, the Russian’s will find them with a few
phone calls away around the globe to get their assets back.
Nobody wants to be in the current shoes of this people! Call it the “Russian Roulette currency” instead of mlm.
UToken / UFun Club is/was a digital currency based Ponzi scheme that was shut down by Thai police on April 10th 2015, some type of “OneCoin on steroids”. The case is still ongoing, and investors are probably still trying to make it work in multiple countries.
“On steroids”?
* Where OneCoin has one or two “1:2 splits”, UToken promised four “1:10 splits” to early investors (e.g. 6,000 Utoken → 60,000 UToken → 600,000 UToken → 6,000,000 UToken → 60,000,000 UToken).
* Where OneCoin has “Business woman of the year” and “Forbes Magazine interview”, UToken usually used multiple internal or external celebrities (“General Soonpan of the Thai Royal Army”, Malaysian Prime Minister’s son, members of the Thai Royal Family, etc. etc.).
* Where OneCoin has “Audited block chain” and “Aurum Gold Coin, backed by 1mg of real gold”, UToken escalated the backing from gold to 22% backing in “UToken Reserve Fund” (backed by 2 banks, 1 financial institution, “Grade A insurance company”, “World Bank”).
* Where OneCoin had the “Dubai 2015 Event”, UFun / UToken had “Miss Wilayah Kebaya 2013”, plus multiple “signing ceremonies” with real construction companies, mining projects, other types of companies, all worth multiple millions or billions of expected profit.
But UFun Club and UToken never really made it work outside the Asian region (Hong Kong, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.). The style was probably too exaggerated / too unfamiliar for western-minded investors.
“On steroids”
* “Miss Wilayah Kebaya 2013” main sponsor
→ Prime Minister’s son as VVIP guest
youtube.com/watch?v=JngIMmFDp0w
– – – – – –
* “Bina Puri signing ceremony”
→ ordered 300 luxury condos in “Bangkok Marina & Spa Resort”
– – – – – –
* “UToken Reserve signing ceremony”
– – – – – –
* “UFun Tower, Bangkok”
youtube.com/watch?v=S1a0bt4Hlbs
– – – – – –
* Some “Marble Mining signing ceremony”, RM 19.2 billion
– – – – – –
* “Gateway Klang signing ceremony”
→ claimed to have a 30% partnership
youtube.com/watch?v=XpW02iPxeQw
– – – – – –
* “Nickel mine project” in Indonesia.
– – – – – –
Another word for it is “excitement driven”.
Inexperienced investors may be more willing to invest if they feel excited about something, e.g. if they see that others are getting big rewards from the investment.
OneCoin is using the same idea, but without that extra supply of steroids.
True! My wife is from the region and told me that if they scammed the wrong bulgarian or russian or ukranian, they’ll end up wishing for jail time or some other sort of governement protection.
Has anyone done any background checks on the security of their website?
My browser is warning me that their site is considered unsecured. it is primarily a HTTP version and no padlock sign is seen.
Upon further inspection it came out to be semi secured with a gray colored lock icon.
Thanks Jodi! I guess July 4th is still the US opening date, but I thought Memorial Day was the opening date, so kinda don’t get that?
Be safe!
George–yes they are paid in cash (actually a visa card that is provided by Onecoin). the person who wants to sponsor me is making 40k a week (yes a week). I have two friends that are both making 5k a week.
As for Ken Labine he is with nitro (an auto poster program for face book groups, he can easily be found on Facebook. I think this may be his first MLM.
(Ozedit: link to affiliate recruitment site removed)
I did not post the link to recruit anyone but to show who Ken Labine is 🙁 sorry If I violated an rule.
No problems. Know the link wasn’t yours but I remove links to affiliate recruitment sites regardless (unless it’s absolutely vital to the discussion).
Usa going strong!
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ckapn_uXikMHCt2hhX9bDFrn1XPuoUCd02SOhYAvLMA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
in a hilarious video published by ken labine blasting oz for ‘something’ [which is not clear], he lets out the important information that he has signed up his kids to the onecoin program.
his kids look pretty young, so why do they need ruja’s high brow ‘training/educational packages’?
“children your bedtime story today is about japanese candlestick trading patterns!’
the SEC and FTC will really love the way rujamama is educating american kids.
sorry for mentioning anyone’s kids, but ken labine brought it up himself and i’m just sharing his information to show that there’s some heavy duty ‘stacking’ going on in onecoin. why will one family need multiple training packages?
Does he say what package he signed them up with? What age do you have to be to sign someone up with OneCoin?
he doesn’t mention that.
this is what the terms and condition of the onecoin website say:
actually, he says they are on ‘starter packs’.
OK… I have listened and viewed a lot of OneCoin USA bullshit they are posting.
Every night they have these web hangouts and team leadership calls. They are always the same, never really say anything except how well they are doing & how they are breaking records for any company ever created.
What I don’t understand is…. Are the people ( USA Team Leaders ) acually stupid enough to beleive all this, or are they part of the scam?
Does it matter? The net result is the same: co-conspirator.
There are three relevant states of mind here:
ignorance — I didn’t know it was a scam (stupid me)
willful blindness — I didn’t want to know if it was a scam. Never asked.
lying through teeth — Yeah, I knew it was a scam, I don’t give a ****
Some of those promoters are probably at 2. They suspect it’s a scam, but they are perfectly willing to IGNORE any such signs as acknowledging them leads to “inconvenient truth” and cognitive dissonance.
Instead, it’s “ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies” followed by “why are you so negative, asking so many questions?”
People are generally not stupid.
Or actually they ARE stupid if you use the right type of “average person” reasoning, e.g. if you look at how stupid the average person in a population can be, and use statistics to find out that 50% of people must be more stupid than him or her. That’s a huge number of stupid people. 🙂
I have analysed several “business mistakes” and “investment mistakes” for more than 20 years. Most mistakes seem to be related to “wrong types of ideas”, plus failing to realize it soon enough to make corrections.
For OneCoin, that “wrong type of idea” might be about believing in that the tokens are growing in value, or that external investors will come rushing in and buy onecoins in 2017 or 2018 (like it was presented in post #369). Tokens don’t have any monetary value, and the only investors so far are the members of the network.
So there’s 2 factors that are relevant.
1. “Wrong type of idea” initially.
2. Failing to realize it.
Smart people also have wrong types of ideas from time to time, but they will usually try to correct those ideas.
seva.ca/
seva.ca/supporters.htm
Please note: Seva Canada has no current relationship with One World Foundation or OneCoin.
youtu.be/pR59jTbPK-o
wow..SO FAKE!
Your PR spamming is really lame. She’s doing “good things” in her name, using everybody’s money, just so you don’t ask inconvenient questions. it’s basically “hey look, puppies!” tactic and you’re parroting it.
The URL is actually: http://www.seva.ca/supporters.htm
(www required) scroll to the very bottom.
Busted! One World Foundation lied about SEVA Canada.
It actually responded with “complete transparency, all relevant parts” (complete list of institutional sponsors, complete list of partners, complete list of supporting brands, main photo artist, complete list of other photographers, etc.).
Seva was discussed around May 28.
Seva responded to your email in post #288.
I recommended to give them the information they asked for, plus access to additional information (post #292 → #281).
I tried to offer “complete transparency, the most relevant parts” (what the discussion was about, why we were asking questions, the source we were looking at, the context for the discussion, etc.).
“No current relationship” probably means they had some type of relationship, e.g. one donation from One World Foundation in early 2015, plus an agreement where OWF has been allowed to use some photos for the purpose of future donations.
There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s how charitable organizations work.
It means Seva can’t use legal threats like a “DMCA takedown notification” to have the material removed. They must treat OWF as a real sponsor, but they can point out concerns about the specific use of the material (and the fact that they receive critical questions about it from concerned citizens).
Oneworldfoundation.eu hasn’t really changed anything on its website.
I identified some elements in post #281, and those elements are still there.
lets assume it helped 73 children…. 73×50= 3600$
500.000 ONECOINS = 10.000 children who could see soon if they got the money from Onecoin donations…
Ben, Seva says $100 CAD per child. The $50 CAD figure is for Adults. It comes out to $6000 or 1.6 Tycoon packages. It comes out to $7300 CAD, $6000 USD, or 5300€.
She can’t donate anything from OneCoin?
Profit from the sale of 478 copies of the ebook “Learning for profit” will be a legitimate source of income (acceptable to a charity). It would be different if she had promised “1% donations from the sale of OneCoin membership packages”.
“Charity is about doing the right thing”. Donating money from a Ponzi scheme doesn’t qualify as “the right thing to do”. The eyesight of a child isn’t that important, it’s not important enough to accept stealing from consumers as a solution.
Absolutely right anjali…during Labine’s ranting to me he told me this..: that on April 3, too busy watched video April 30, came in trader may 1, tycoon may 14 another trader account may 18ish oh and all 3 of my kids i got starter accounts for.
When I asked him if he has been able to purchase a mansion with his earnings like Ruja has done from her’s and how much money he has made so far this is what he told me:
“530 euro came out, 1500ish went in, plus i have about 6000 onecoins accumulated from this account…”
This Labine guy is completely brainwashed! What really gets me though is this… he bashes me for being involved in utoken and promoting that company, calling it a scam.
Well duh! Why does he think I’m now trying to warn others about onecoin!!!
He is only proving my point!…. That if all of us that were involved in utoken were promised and told the same exact things that onecoin people are being told and it failed… should that not be a warning to those thinking of getting involved with onecoin??? BIG RED FLAG!!!..
Utoken members were introduced to utoken the same exact way people are being introduced to onecoin…” onecoin is doing something that no one else is doing, they are improving on bitcoin, finding bitcoins flaws and improving on them”…thats exactly what we were told with utoken!..
People…do your homework!!! …use your heads!…Think!…All of these warning signs staring you right in the face!…
Don’t get caught up in something the way I did. Look through the hype!
Would just like to get this out here as there has been much talk about Ruja’s charity.
I have a friend who has also been approached with the onecoin opportunity. He has been involved in cryptocurrencies (bitcoin) for awhile and was very concerned when he was approached by onecoin.
So during his due diligence he decided to call Seva… this is what he found out.
I will also be postings any other findings he may come across. I’m just glad that like myself who called Forbes to find out about onecoins claims of being featured on the May cover, that people are actually checking into things better and doing their own research….and thats all I have ever really wanted…
people need to stop listening to the hype and find out things for themselves.
glen smith of the US, further attended ruja’s birthday bash in bulgaria in late may/early june.
he has been promoting onecoin ‘on the road’ in the US and may easily be one of the earliest/topmost promoters of onecoin in the US.
i hope he knows that even if US regulators cannot pick up ruja from her safehouse in bulgaria, they can definitely gun for him, like they did with top promoters of emgoldex.
glen smith has set up a website and an FB page to promote his onecoin activities, dangling ‘yachts’ and ‘high living’ and ‘make money while you sleep’ marketing spiels.
glen smith at rujamama’s birthday bash:
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=989965377704270&set=a.452398624794284.107131.100000724504823&type=1&theater
That didn’t surprise me. I have checked a few cryptocurrency forums, and most regular users won’t believe in the OneCoin idea. They simply refuse to accept it as a “real crypto currency”.
OneCoin promoters generally don’t speak the right “language” (“BitCoin language”). “Language” isn’t about words but about how people communicate ideas, e.g. “precise factual descriptions” versus “vague promises, mostly based on irrelevant factors”.
You can see one specific type of “language” in the replies from Seva Canada (it’s two of them). It’s a “keep it short and factual” communication method.
* It only gives the necessary information in a very few sentences (2 sentences).
* It doesn’t try to stimulate any new ideas and it doesn’t invite to further questions.
A lengthy explanation would most likely have stimulated some new ideas and would have invited to more questions.
July 4th is approaching for the big day for OneCoin’s opening, correct? But I thought it opened Memorial Day, an early surprise?
If Ruja doesn’t step foot in the US, can anything be done with her for the sake of investors? Has anyone found out whether she has a law degree or is that fake too?
Did Ruja give credit to the authors of the books she stole content from? I saw the comparisons that someone did, but I didn’t see any credits given?
I think most of you are from US? I’m myself from Sweden/Finland/ so I will write a post about the situation here in Scandinavia.
My intention was to make the true facts be more vieved in Sweden and Finland. In Finland it was so easy because I knew an influential person who has been writing about this already in February.
I admire him because he posted his posts under his real name (Petteri Järvinen), and I can tell you that it is not a correct way to make new friends 😉 There are hundreds of negative comments following his articles but ha was sure for 100%! Onecoin is a fake cryptocurrency!
See his blog in Finnish:
translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//pjarvinen.blogspot.fi/%23uds-search-results&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
You can search “onecoin” to the right and you should get all 5 results.
———————————————–
In Sweden it has been more difficult. I send my chapters 1-4 to all the blogs and newspapers in Sweden.
Got answer from a blogger who admitted it was a Ponzi but he had no time for this right now. I tried to warn people on Facebook but I was kicked out from FB very quickly.
One dictator in Sweden who has made most money there is
Stefan Sjödin
blogger.com/profile/06653085001529768135
facebook.com/stefan.sjodin.7
coinnewsasia.com/stefan-sjodin-onecoin-will-be-the-big-money-in-trading/
He has currently a full control of the Sweden community and succeed well after Dubai. (May 17-June29)
SWEDEN 3039-5252
FINLAND 4000-5239
NORWAY 503-863
DANMARK 35-48
ISLAND 0-0 🙂
Yesterday(today in US) Sweden surpassed Finland for the first time. Very strange because Sweden and Finland are very similar countries but people in Finland has by far more knowledge than people in Sweden.
You can’t find any article about Onecoin in Swedish, but Onecoin in Finland was on TV, radio, several newspapers and so on. Ruja was also 2 times in Finland. But I knew Sweden would surpass Finland in June.
Stefan Sjödin deletes every negative post on FB in his closed group and he kicks out members who “share some negative info about OneCoin”. He won’t answer any good questions on FB and that’s why it was so easy to get new members there.
Juha Parhiala did help too, by visiting Stockholm and Guthenburg 2 weeks ago. And Juha said: SWEDEN IS HOT NOW.
I try to concentrate my work in Sweden to this “free word site”:
flashback.org/t2546019
You can find my posts on page 6+. I’m Swedish speaking so if you want some help in “sharing true info” about Onecoin i’m here to help. You can contact me on by blog or my Youtube channel.
benzmith.tumblr.com/
———————————————–
Norway. I think it is very similar situation as in Sweden. Juha had a plan to visit Norway which he abandoned very shortly before the tour.
———————————————–
Very strange is Denmark! So few members in the country who has by far the highest salaries in Europe!! 1 salary in Damnark=7-10 salaries in Bulgaria, Rumania.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ckapn_uXikMHCt2hhX9bDFrn1XPuoUCd02SOhYAvLMA/edit?usp=sharing
———————————————–
United States Minor Outlying Islands – Check this… Do US citizens use this country to register (legally) from??
photos of Juha’s “US teams” or whatever it is
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=852530748174080&id=822713397822482
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=851547718272383&id=822713397822482
postimg.org/gallery/1d13hwwee/
Is Finland still being investigated? Some in US have been told that they didn’t do anything or found anything on OneCoin so the investigation didn’t go anywhere.
Didn’t the bank in Hungry send out a warning? Any updates on that?
Is Juha part of this scam too, or he is an innocent victim? I read somewhere of a Glen Smith, maybe somewhere in this post, not sure, but is he a heavy promoter in the US? Never heard of him.
Does China really have 80% of their citizens in OneCoin, and was Ruja on Chinese TV? I find that to be farfetched?
Thanks
Studying the material, which for us is the Police Board delivered and we acquired more material. We ask about the matter will also be (of the company) from responsible people, if such ones can be found.
And when the material is held together, the investigating officer will conduct an evaluation with from talking to a prosecutor, ie above a certain threshold for pre-trial proceedings or not, Karvonen says.
————————————
Maybe I should go to the police and give them Information I have 😉 I think the more info they will get the more clear it will turn out to be. If you are new and will get the information it takes several days/weeks to put the pieces together.
A university of Onecoin was planned in Helsinki but it has been cancelled due to “negative media status” here in Finland.
————————————
Hungary is not Finland, maybe the languages are from the same family but Hungary is not even close to Finland 🙂
And it was a warning. Very good indeed. If difficult to find a crime with so little info, more countries should warn about Ponzies like this.
————————————
Juha Parhiala is the biggest scammer of them all. Hi is on the top of the pyramid, has got free codes from Ruja and he sells them at wholesale prices (-20%-50% depending on how many Tycoons you buy). I would actually call him as Vice President or a big shareholder(or the biggest scammer ;))
Dr Ruja had a vision which she told to Juha when the Bitcoin was as highest. Juha planned ad showed her the MLM plan and here we are!
————————————
My file is dated 13 May.
To OneCoin Members!
This a an official announcement that a Mr Glenn Smith IS in no way related to OneCoin corporate or in anwvay appointed the title ot Operation Manager or Master Distributor USA.
Please be aware that false pretentions ot taking titles that relate to the corporate can bring reputation damage to OneCoin and lead to a closure of the distributor position
With best regards
Dr: Rula Ignatova
Founder and Owner
s10.postimg.org/btis3gend/13may.jpg
This post is gone now?
I have seen pictures of him in Sofia with Dr Ruja. (her birthday party)
youtu.be/KWNiIP45fbk?t=730
12.20-> SEE RUJA DANCING DRUNK! Ruja dances with her husband. (there are other nice looking girls dancing too 😉
13.00-13.15 Our “President of Onecoin Finland”
13.22-13.38 Glen Smith
How much does Glen Smith do for Onecoin in US? I actually don’t know.
————————————
it was mentioned once on TV, but what? I Can’t Chinese 😉 It would be nice to know what they say about it.
80% is 1200 milions people so this is an easy answer 😉
But I can say what Juha is telling to people when promoting Onecoin.
“The Chinese Goverment predicts that 1.1.2016 there will be 1.000.000 Onecoin users in China”
(I have to remind you that Juha said several months ago that the inventor of Bitcoin is now a member of Onecoin, so you know how much is truth when you hear Juha saying something ;))
I think the Chinese numbers are very fake.
China 228321 of 320.000 members are Chinese (counting flags), so 7 of 10 are from China.
And 92.000 members outside China is low? The true numbers we will perhaps never get to know…
more by Glen Smith (NOT BEN Smith 😉 1.59-2.42 (he talks 2times)
youtu.be/KWNiIP45fbk?t=118
well whatever problem glen smith had with ruja, seems to be resolved because he is currently in chinatown posting videos about helping people make 40,000$ a week.
:O
WE WANT NIGEL ALLAN BACK!!! 😉
———————————
“helping people make 40,000$ a week”
Yeah…10 will make some money…1000 will lose it….So much for helping 😀
I’m of course from Norway. 🙂
But I don’t specifically cover that country or region, I only do it when it’s relevant. A few other people cover that region.
Is that the total number of OneCoin investors in each country, or is it his personal downline?
As a total number, the figures for Norway seem to be relatively correct. OneCoin isn’t very big there, but I have seen some failed promotion attempts on the internet. The total number can be anything from 100 to 1000 local members.
Please note that OneCoin is much smaller than it pretends to be, i.e. many fake members. So the numbers can be grossly exaggerated.
Posted by Golden Lion Invest on 14 mars 2015
facebook.com/GoldenLionInv/posts/881097648598611
“I’m of course from Norway”
I haven’t felt so stupid for years 😉
Those numbers should be for the whole countries. But it could be his downline too. I’m not sure what Master distributor 001 means, Both Juha and Sebastian use that.
And yes, the front ticker which is showing currently 429.000 is showing at least 110.000 to many. Counting the flags from the bonus page shows only 320.000.
Last 10 days has been worst for a long time. When the split happened 18.6 the ticker showed 417.000. That is 900 new members per day…before the split it was 5000-15000 new members per day.
I will publish more daily/weekly stats later this week, and which countries are hottest after the split
I have checked that list. Many of those coutries are obviously false. OneCoin has probably bought a member list from Conligus and added all of them as real members. But most of them were probably fake right from the beginning.
OneCoin hasn’t “gone viral” like ZeekRewards and TelexFree did, at least not yet.
Here’s some Alexa statistics for ONECOIN.EU, ONEPAY.EU and COINVEGAS.EU.
The logic goes like this …
Since ONECOIN.EU and ONEPAY:EU are closely related, their Country statistics should normally reflect each other. At least for SOME countries, but the same payment processor may not be available in every country.
27.6% of the upstream traffic to OnePay comes directly from OneCoin = people accessing their ewallets directly from the back office.
17.4% of the upstream traffic to CoinVegas comes directly from onecoin.eu = people looking at or trying the casino directly from the back office. Or it may be a robot (a script) trying to generate better traffic rank.
Compare those Global ranks / Local ranks to behindmlm.com:
* Both Global and Local rank will be affected by “Which program is currently hot in which country” factors. And people don’t need to log in each day here, like they do if they’re active participants in a Ponzi scheme.
** Country statistics will often depend on “Which program is currently hot” factors.
*** Upstream is probably related to people returning from those websites. People here are referring to external sources, and other people are checking the same sources (and then returning to this website).
People here are generally from many different countries. But a majority usually come from the U.S., due to factors like “English speaking country”, “many programs originates from that country”, etc., plus that many users come from other websites where the majority of users come from the U.S. (they visit many similar websites regularily).
“Many different countries” means that you can get a better overview, “see more of it than your own local view”. It also means that you can communicate a local situation to a wider range of people, e.g. “fill in some missing parts of the picture”.
It was particularily useful when we reviewed TelexFree, a $1,8 billion MLM Ponzi scheme from USA / Brazil. We had 5 or 6 users from Brazil posting regular updates for several months. TelexFree is only one example, “local knowledge” will generally be useful in most cases.
ONECOIN, NORWAY
My local knowledge for Norway is that OneCoin isn’t very visible on the internet, but experienced local Ponzi scheme promoters have tried to promote it on cryptocurrency forums. That didn’t work well.
Experienced people will generally not be very visible on the internet. It simply means that they’re contacting people directly (offline or via email). But it also means that they’re contacting the same people each time for each new program.
Since OneCoin doesn’t seem to be a big problem locally, it’s not necessary for me to make it become more visible either. I’m not “campaigning against it” locally.
Norway and Sweden can be seen as “one market” for certain types of pyramid schemes. People usually have connections in both directions there.
Sweden and Finland can probably be seen in a similar way.
Sweden generally have more “local organizers” / more connections to other countries (e.g. Eastern Europe).
Denmark has more connections to Germany and Western European countries. I have seen very few Danish pyramid schemes being marketed in Norway, but I have seen many Swedish ones.
I have asked this simple question to a lot of their members & nobody answers me, so can someone here answer this simple question.
We start a simple cybercurrency company. We have no outside investors so no one beside us members who wants the coins and can drive the price up. All 10 of is lay 100.00 on the table to invest in out coin.
I announce our coin is popular and split & double everyone’s investment. I am also so happy I announce I am paying super commissions to everyone.
Monday is payday, so we all go the the table to take our gains that are now 200.00 plus commissions…. But when we look at our pile there is still only 100.00 each, because there is no outside investment.
In reality there is really a lot less, because I bought a 4.2 million dollar house & my co-Horts bought boats & cars.
So can someone show me how this math works? Can I just say my dollars are now worth 20 dollars?!! Wait till the real world hears of this simple trick to get outta debt… They are going to give me the title of Dr. For being so smart 🙂
Or here is another senerio… I announce PAYDAY.. And the first 4 of my group runs to the table and grabs the 250.00 I said they now have.
When the last 6 of us get there the money wa all taken by the first 4 and we get nothing… WTH?
Math doesn’t work. It only works if people BELIEVE your currency rose, making them put in more money.
FWIW, the MMM pyramid in Russia worked the same way. Mavrodi bought prime time TV ads claiming his stocks are rising fast, 10% or more per month.
And since he’s OTC (not on any exchange) he basically set his own stock prices (i.e. just need some shills buying the stock at inflated prices) and some people were able to ‘cash out’ because other people believed the stock will keep rising and bought them. So from there it just snowballed.
youtube.com/watch?v=7TiRAPxJVKM
Ignatova shaking body…. 😉
Wow Ben…. I heard that Ruja stuffs her bra with money…. Now I can see where all the millions went 🙂
Regarding post #514 Juha Parhiala is the biggest scammer of them all. Hi is on the top of the pyramid, has got free codes from Ruja and he sells them at wholesale prices (-20%-50% depending on how many Tycoons you buy). I would actually call him as Vice President or a big shareholder(or the biggest scammer ;))
My questions:
What are free codes? First I’ve heard of this. Why is that method being done verses just sending someone to your website to sign up? How does that involve the money transaction and to whom? How does that work? Is that just on the Tycoons that you mention, or is that for all the packages? 20-50% is high. Where did you get those percentages from?
From above post:
onecoin: This a an official announcement that a Mr Glenn Smith IS in no way related to OneCoin corporate or in anwvay appointed the title ot Operation Manager or Master Distributor USA.
well whatever problem glen smith had with ruja, seems to be resolved because he is currently in chinatown posting videos about helping people make 40,000$ a week.
My questions:
Glen Smith is or isn’t in OneCoin? He just isn’t in corporate, as Ruja says? What problem, if any did he and Ruja have? What Chinatown?
It’s probably a recruitment method, e.g. “Use this free code and save $30 registration fee”.
It’s much easier to get people to sign up if you can offer it for free, “Let them SEE IT and TRY IT themselves first before they have to make a decision”.
From this review …
Free Members will receive an ebook or something.
Most of the members are probably Free Members. Many of them are probably fake members, “bought” by the affiliates themselves for “free codes”.
It’s easier to sell a position if you can say “I have a few TOP POSITIONS available, you can buy one of them”. Or at least some people will fall for ideas like that.
I’m not sure my answer is 100% correct.
I have checked some Youtube videos from OneCoin-USA.com.
1. HOW TO BUY A ONECOIN GIFT CODE
Gift Codes can be bought using back office funds (“Cash Account”) or real monetary transactions (OnePay, bank wire, Perfect Money, Credit card, China Union Pay).
Prices:
€130 Starter
€530 Trader
€1,030 Pro Trader
€3,030 Executive Trader
€5,030 Tycoon
They can be SOLD to new members for full price (or slightly reduced price if people feel for it).
Source:
How To Buy A OneCoin Gift Code – OneCoin USA
youtube.com/watch?v=y83LBSVG3JI
2. FREE MEMBERS
Joining for free can be done by simply registering a new membership profile (they won’t need to pay anything).
The status of the membership will be PENDING. They must pay €30 to activate it, but they will be registered as members anyway.
Source:
How to sign up to onecoin FREE account
youtube.com/watch?v=Qpf2_rQR-AI
3. UPGRADE WITH A GIFT CODE
It’s about how to use the Gift Code purchased under point #1 to buy a membership package.
Source:
Upgrade Package With A Gift Code – OneCoin USA
youtube.com/watch?v=CcpRd31_yM4
So these gift codes Ruja just makes up, not costing her anything, gives them free to Juha, and he wholesales them out to distributors to give to people, when they buy a package, so it saves the newbie from paying the fee for signing up on the website, which my understanding is/has been a problem with their credit card processor?
I am taking bits and pieces of things I have read and trying to make sense of all this.
Has Ruja been declined from getting a merchant’s license or is it broke, like I have heard?
I recall reading something a while back that she was having problems with getting a license to be legal in the US?
Do you know what that was about, and whatever it was, she must’ve gotten cleared up, because they are doing there launch July 4th? Was that issue with the SEC?
I checked Alexa rankings for perfectmoney.com, perfectmoney.is and chinaunionpay.com to look for OneCoin members in China.
It didn’t really tell anything, but at least OneCoin doesn’t have tens of thousands of members in China that use China Union Pay or Perfect Money.
Note that OneCoin isn’t visible as “Upstream sites” for any of those payment processors. I checked all the relevant links.
Gift codes will reduce the number of bank transactions to and from OneCoin. That may be important if you want to avoid too much attention from authorities.
* New affiliates will pay directly to the recruiting sponsor (or his upline), a monetary transaction between bank accounts. The recruiting sponsor will then pay OneCoin from his “Cash Account”, a non-monetary transaction between internal accounts.
The reduced prices are used as incentives for people to buy gift codes for upgrades, reinvestments or sale to others.
Example 1:
€5,030 – 20% = €4,024 (for a Tycoon package)
→ Can be sold for €5,030 to new members (profit €1,006), or
→ Can be invested in one additional Tycoon package
Example 2:
€530 – 20% = €424 (one Trader package)
→ Sold to new member for €530 = €106 profit (in addition to other commissions)
glen smith is very much a onecoin investor and promoter.he has been on the road over the last several days travelling from city to city recruiting investors into onecoin.
currently he is in chinatown, manhattan, holding meetings in seedy looking restaurants, trying to rope the local population in.
going by the communication of onecoin, it appears they had a problem with glenn smith/his downlines saying that he was master distributor/operations manager for onecoin, USA. his FB page does not imply any such designation.
the problem seems to have been resolved between ruja and smith, because we can clearly see he is peddling onecoin all over the place.
Those “Gift Codes” are not mentioned in the review here (from September 23 2014), so they are probably a relatively new method.
OneCoin more or less “collapsed” in January 2015. “Gift Codes” have probably been added after that, “to fix a problem”.
Note that I haven’t seen those videos before now. My guess is that they tried to add recruitment incentives and reinvestment incentives to make the scheme look more attractive to investors and recruiters.
“Discounted gift codes” is simply a type of “high octane fuel” for a recruitment driven Ponzi scheme. 🙂
That was a very long sentence with multiple elements. 🙂
* Problem with credit card processor? They most like have multiple problems with transactions. Gift Codes can be about that too.
* so it saves the newbie from paying the fee for signing up on the website? That was a guess from my side, before I checked those videos. The videos corrected that guess.
* Juha wholesales them out to distributors to give to people? Juha probably buy them himself, with even more discount. He makes a profit from it in one way or another.
* So these gift codes Ruja just makes up, not costing? Correct. But it’s the system that generates those codes, the MLM Ponzi scheme software. It’s probably a type of “electronic voucher / coupon”.
I tried to find an example for “electronic voucher / coupon”, but I didn’t find exactly the right type. Here’s one type from RetailMeNot.com:
OneCoins gift codes probably look more like this: y83LBSVG3JI
GIFT CODES, FUNCTIONS
Gift Codes will reduce the number of transactions from members’ bank accounts → OneCoin’s bank accounts when they’re paying for new packages.
It will also reduce the number of withdrawal transactions OneCoin → members.
Without gift codes:
* New members paid directly to OneCoin’s merchant accounts (OnePay, PerfectMoney, China Union Pay), member → OneCoin.
* Old members withdrew money from the system directly from OneCoin’s merchants account each week, OneCoin → member.
With gift codes:
* New members pay directly to old member when they wish to buy a new membeship package, member → member.
* Instead of withdrawals from “Cash Account” → ewallet → bank account or debit card, members can use “Cash Account” to buy gift codes for investment or sale. No monetary transaction.
CASH ACCOUNT
The “Cash Account” works just like money inside the system. That’s how monopoly money works too, you can use it inside a game but it doesn’t work in the real economy.
Cash in the “Cash Account” cost nothing to produce and has no real value. It’s simply some “numbers on a screen”, but they use currency symbols to make it look like real money.
If you buy codes you don’t need to pay in/out through banks. Somebody buys a package, he pays you , you buy a gift code and give him that. For the seller it is the easiest way to get paycheck. OneCoin promoted this way of cashing out in webinars.
I was waiting for the option to buy with onecoins. They made it possible last week and set the exchange rate to over 2:1
youtu.be/39v7xYwAFI4?t=701
to->17.30
If you have a pro trader package (1000€) you can use 1000 Onecoins per week (500€ of packages)
start trader =100€=200coins
trader =500€=1000coins
protrader =1000€=2000 coins
start trader + activation=130€=260coins
trader + activation=530€=1060coins
protrader + activation =1030€=2060coins
and so on? or not on….that means you can’t buy exc-tycoons with onecoins? (limit 5000coins/week)
I was warning already for several weeks ago that if people could buy packages with onecoins they could go broke. If every package was bought with onecoins they had still to pay out bonus in cash anyway.
That would be also be a fast way to cash out from Onecoins and THEN we would see heavy discounts for the packages. The market price for the onecoin would be basically how much people would pay for a tycoon.
My guess would be 3500-4000€ very soon…But they realized that it won’t work this way.
A very interesting thing would be to know the stats how many % of the packages people buy nowadays using onecoins.
My friend who has a trader account (500€) after the split he will get 916 coins.
5000/10=500
5000/12=416
If he will sell packages for 430€ (230+200€/week) he pays 860 coins for 460€ he need 920coins (4 short) . But I maybe would buy 4 coins.. why? You can’t sell any coins below 67. But you will get 10% for the direct sells if the buyer puts you as a sponsor. So there is A LOT OF CALCULATING going on at Onecoins “camps”
postimg.org/gallery/2sa2y9dtu/
(don’t forget to check out the pictures below, I set Onecoin pics as adult content for sure ;))
More about Juhas “discounts” next week. I will get new info on friday. But it is not allowed to sell with discounts. (For all but Juha and his friends ;))
Maybe you want to know what happens if you choose the credit card option??? White page. They are still making “improvements” :O
have you seen this?
sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf
I hadn’t, but that’s all the way back from 2013.
investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-ponzi-schemes-using-virtual-currencies
I’m confident we’re going to see a major MLM crypto-currency bust sometime over the next twelve months. It’s gotten to Zeek-level now with how the MLM penny auctions clones were.
youtube.com/watch?v=PMjp67w4ckg
Whoa, seriously, busted within the next twelve months? What do you base that on? Anyone OneCoin distributor reading this, it would seem to give them more fuel to get more people in to make more money, you think?
Does anyone know if it is true of a OneCoin party in Vegas for the US grand opening July 4th?
Who didn’t see OneCoin not holding an event on a national holiday?
Noone…
what happened to onecoinscam.com ? account suspended.
It’s up now, but probably this:
Still suspended.
this is sad. onecoinscam.com had collected a vast body of material on the onecoin ponzi.
whats with web hosts and registrars doing business freely with ponzi/pyramid schemes but clamping down on free speech/citizen journalism?
as far as i know onecoinscam.com had collected it’s information from the internet, from the company’s website and social media and some pdf documents and press reports. how is this ‘doxxing’?
it’s not like onecoinscam.com followed ruja ignatova to her home, and made a note of her address, and released it online!
patrick pretty, asd updates, changs hub pages, behindmlm,ethan valderbuilt, eagle associates etc etc, have all been reporting on ponzi schemes day in and day out, and the ponzi threats never amount to much legally.
however we have to respect onecoinscam.com’s decision to either stay up or wind down, because we do not know what is going on in their lives.
anyway, job well done onecoinscam.com!
It was up for me. Try to “update” the webpage (F5 in Windows)?
ALL FILES FROM onecoinscam.com
drive.google.com/file/d/0B4CyzrtK43UvS0RrclJZeWphRHc/view?usp=sharing
somehow, i’ve had the feeling that the person participating here as ‘blue’ is the person behind onecoinscam.com. i’m not sure at all, just a feeling.
all i’m saying is that this blog is as good for sharing information/opinions about onecoin, as any other individual site.
somehow? you are welcome.
My intention was to start making chapter 5 based on this blog. Have to see what he says first.
WAAAIT!!
So i can buy giftcodes at say 70% rrp then resell them to suckers for full price?
even if i buy them at 100% rrp (represented retail price) then sell them to suckers but get 30% commission is similar to above!
under UK Law, please correct me if i am wrong;
If you are receiving direct payment for the gift code (one coin) into your bank account or with cash, then that puts the onus on you when sh*t hits the fan.
A lot of ppl gonna be getting sued when this goes tits up cos u r to blame for accepting the direct payment, by receiving direct payment for the one coin/gift code the blame is on you and lots of people will be arrested and in serious trouble about this.
By receiving direct payment definately puts you in trouble rather than just being an “innocent ponzi pimp who didnt know it was a ponzi” and sending to pay somewhere else.
Let me know thoughts on above.
Not sure about the UK, but of late we’ve seen several top investors listed as defendants in various SEC Ponzi case busts (TelexFree, DFRF).
That’s why we have Thailand Malaysia, Vietnam in the top? but not Germany, Uk, France and so on?
If you try to pay with credit card, the page will turn 100% white, no info or something….the credit cards are not working at all. And I don’t think it will ever work anymore 😉 (to buy onecoin education)
You can download whole site
—————————————————————————————————
………….ONECOINSCAM.COM – BENZMITH.TUMBLR.COM…………..
—————————————————————————————————
I try to make a list what is worse with ONECOIN than BITCOIN. Just shout out anything!! We’ll make a long list 😉
Nothing changed here by the way…
Did OneCoin launch July 4th?
Last I heard launch had been delayed till July 6th…
I tried onecoinscam.com site again, and it still says, account suspended. I did F5 as someone suggested, but didn’t work.
In regards to # 551 post, distributors or whomever are making money getting gift codes for people and they can get in trouble? Do you have proof of that?
It’s now down on my end too. Looks like DNS propagation has caught up.
I thought you might be behind but turns out your end updated earlier.
In the webinars and presentations, they will show you this list:
——-————————————————————————————–
Top 7 reasons Why Onecoin is Better than Bitcoin
——1————————————————————————————–
More advanced and more secured algorithm (SCRIPT)
3.bp.blogspot.com/-UEXH6vKWYFM/VOXrlomgGhI/AAAAAAAADJc/lllk95YQEDg/s1600/oc%2Bblockchain.jpg
-“OneCoin is not an ALTCOIN? This means we do NOT use the Bitcoin algorithm with small changes. We decided to use a custom made solution, which has elements of script and x11”
-“It was 5 programmers from India who did the coding”
We can’t answer this, when we can’t see it. But to develop such “better” algorithm, the costs are also higher. Why did Ruja choose almost the same looking?? (2,1B vs 21M and both 8 digits???) It looks like 100% altcoin.
——2————————————————————————————–
Smaller denomination makes coin more usable, 2100M vs 21M
-“Bitcoin reached up to 1200 USD, which made it inaccessible for many people and not practical as a currency”
No one thought it could value of ten billions of $. If it had the same amount like Onecoin it would start like… 0.0001. In both of them there are 8 digits so there are no problems using them. You buy always stuff in local currency anyway.
——3————————————————————————————–
Onecoin exchange provides due to its centralization higher liquidity and less volatility
-“Unlike multiple bitcoin exchanges all selling at different rates…”
mlmsites.s3.amazonaws.com/images/hash/06/8c/14/5020365ffa80e340a9c068a1ef.jpg
So a 100% manipulated market and price are better?? No way! This is only visual with heavy limitations to pretend it’s working. This will 100% not work for long.
——4————————————————————————————–
Dedicated management team responsible for strategy, attracting merchants and building
Dr Ruja Ignatova, Sebastian Greenwood , Juha Parhiala. No more comments! 😉
——5————————————————————————————–
Onecoin is mined in mining pools
-“Keeping individual investments in hardware.. etc , minimal”
First, you can’t call it for mining if you mine alone. Secondly, You can’t call it for mining pools. In mining pools you share computer power, electricity bills etc. If you are mining alone YOU DON’T NEED ANY MINING POOLS.
——6————————————————————————————–
Onecoin uses KYC procedures and can not be abused for illegal purposes like Bitcoin
-“Bitcoin was used for buying drugs and weapon on the internet KYC procedures = KNOW YOUR CUSTOMERS procedures”
Onecoin=The first currency which is controlled what you are allowed to buy – Is that better? KYC=more costs. To have KYC means=Go through OneCoin. A new customer have to register at Onecoin, which takes a few days to get KYC?
——7————————————————————————————–
Onecoin is still in an early stage and therefore interesting for investors, while Bitcoin is already very mature
http://www.passing.info/assets/images/Prognose_drei_Jahre.JPG
Current price is 1,15/1,25€ – The starting price for Bitcoin would have been 100€/Bitcoin if it was set so high… But it was 0.1$ in the beginning. That means that ONECOINs starting price is 1000x starting price of Bitcoin. So the price is “manipulated” to 1,15/1,25 and it has 1000x more difficult to rise than Bitcoin.
***************************************************************
Let the list continue, but now why Onecoin is worse 😉
***************************************************************
I and others still can’t access onecoinscam.com site, account suspended. So I’m not the only one.
Since the launch didn’t happen July 4th, curious, was Ruja suppose to be in the US for the launch somewhere? Is she registered with the SEC?
The launch is supposed to happen on Monday, via webinar.
It’s not important enough for them to hold an actual shindig (ala Iganatova’s birthday).
Either that or… y’know, regulators.
I did not even celebrate the 4th….
Today is the day…. OneCoin saves the United States Currency system. This day will go down in history.
Long live OneCoin. Now back to bed.
The Alexa statistics indicate that OneCoin.eu reached a peak in early June 2015, but after that the rank started to decline.
alexa.com/siteinfo/onecoin.eu
Alexa rank is only an indicator, it’s not an accurate reflection of the reality. But it’s one of the indicators we can use.
One indicator is the video in post #175, “The Dubai Event”. It carefully avoids showing the audience (other than when it briefly looks at the Finnish team).
This is the same video as in post #175, “OneCoin Dubai Event”, four different sections showing some audience.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“The Finnish team / audience on a screen”
youtu.be/GgstRAIPyXs?t=2m
2:00 switching to the real audience
2:10 switching back to “audience on a screen”
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“Camera / huge audience”
youtu.be/GgstRAIPyXs?t=3m
3:04 A camera becomes visible from above
3:12 Blurry video showing a huge audience on a screen
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“Zooming in on camera”
youtu.be/GgstRAIPyXs?t=6m50s
6:58 Starting to zoom in on a camera for some unknown reason
7:02 Starts to zoom out again, to show a huge audience
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“Audience on a screen”
youtu.be/GgstRAIPyXs?t=11m
11.13 a camera becomes visible from above, upper left
11.38 blurry video showing an audience on a screen
11:41 someone in the real audience putting up a hand
11:45 it becomes visible that it actually is a video.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
For some reason, the audience looks rather small when you don’t have that camera there.
It’s clearly possible to make a crowd appear to be larger than it really is.
CGI = Computer-generated imagery.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-generated_imagery
Forced perspective can be used to make the room or the scene look larger.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_perspective
Still can’t access the onecoinscam.com site.
Did Onecoin launch in the US today, July 6th?
Dr Ruja is speaking right now (same selling crap again)
(Ozedit: login required, link removed)
7:21 into the video shows the use of a mirror image of the same “hole in the wall” as in 7:12, I believe. At least it’s a mirror image of “something”.
7:02 Zooming out, showing a huge audience
7:12 Shows the back wall, ceiling, audience etc.
7:15 Zooming back in on camera
7:21 upside-down image of 7:12 (partly)
The video has a lot of weird film techniques.
Pehr Carlsson was drunk? He seemed extremly tired when presenteting Dr Ruja. Before this recording somebody said: there’s only 400 people here today…. so there was few people attending.
So what did Dr Ruja announce today? 0, nothing, Nada, Zero. She spoke a little bit about cryptocurrencies.
SO US HAS OFFICIALLY OPENED!! HALLELUJA! DO YOU NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE???
onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=373070381A08760B!236&authkey=!ANhSN27Ld7_blgo&ithint=file%2cmp3
Per Carlsson 4.00-> Dr Ruja -> 40.00 ->Per C
So no SEC registration disclosure?
How totally… unexpected.
Can someone shortly explain what the SEC-reg-disclosure means for a 100% privately owned company like Onecoin ltd in this case?
It means they are licensed to offer securities (which is what OneCoin points/tokens are).
Otherwise OneCoin are engaged in the offering of unregistered securities (real money is invested in OneCoin points/token). OneCoin is pretty quiet in the US at the moment for this reason.
Securities Act 1933 → Sale of unregistred securities.
MLM.com has a simple explanation (from ZeekRewards’ shutdown, 1:45 into the video):
youtu.be/4tSSmsZwVOs?t=1m45s
“Unregistered securities” can be said to be a low level reason for an action, e.g. to halt a scheme partially.
Is there a way to find out if OneCoin is registered?
Edgar database.
if they were registered they would be crowing about it from the tree tops.
Learning and trying to catch up to all this, so thank you all for your time and input to help get the info out to those that will listen.
Any company, public or private that wants to raise cash by accessing the capital markets can file disclosure forms and financial data with the SEC.
The SEC neither endorses or approves of the offering but via a system called Edgar ensures that the disclosures and intent to issue a security are available to the investing public.
This is loosely called “registration,” since a code number is assigned to the offering. The process fulfills certain minimum public informational requirements. Often offerings are underwritten by investment houses and brokered and sold by licensed broker-dealers.
One coin stands out like a sore thumb in such a registration scheme but if Ruja wants to register an offering (whatever it is) then she is entitled to give it a shot. Doing so would invite close scrutiny by regulators and the public.
Its likely better when recruiting to suggest that Onecoin can withstand such scrutiny than actually undergoing it.
I am soooooooo disappointed. Where is all the hoopla & Fanfare here in the USA.
They have been talking & building this grand opening up for months & Not even any of the great team leaders are posting or mentioning it much.
No one has even posted a link to the webnar featuring Dr. Seuss …, opps, I mean Dr. ruja announcing their his to save the USA from finacial collapse.
Any updates since the launch on Monday?
Does anyone know about Coinvegas and if Ruja started it, and is tied to Onecoin? Thanks!
The Message I received:
Is there a package you have to buy like you do with OneCoin, and do you get tokens or credit, if someone knows?
You should buy a package and then you get tokens and then you get OneCoins.
p.s.
So there is OneCoin packages and now Coinvegas packages?
If so, does the Coinvegas packages give you the educational courses too, like the OneCoin packages, which someone found out are plagiarized?
I guess just another way to get you involved in one or the other or both and to get your money for return in tokens. Just amazing! CROOKS!
Yes and read the news.
Pushing now coinvegas packages along with onecoin packages, and all the money goes into her bank account and she gives you worthless tokens, credits, coins… whatever… amazing!
Thank you to everyone who has posted here, in getting info out.
USA going strong last week, but Pakistan grew most.
stats for 8 days 29.6-7.7:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ckapn_uXikMHCt2hhX9bDFrn1XPuoUCd02SOhYAvLMA/edit?usp=sharing
OK
CoinVegas had been operating since 2013, never really got anywhere. Last I checked, it uses Bitcoin and Litecoin.
So unless CoinVegas got a new management, seems the Onesies drank too much Ruja-koolaid.
It reopened on June 1st with OneCoin as the new owner. A few people tried it in the first week. I checked it in post #327 June 4, June 5).
“Top 3 winners” for all those slot machine games only had one winner listed = one person had tried 3 slot machine games, one person had tried 2 slot machine games, one person had tried 1 slot machine game — in 4 days / 5 days after the reopening on June 1st.
I checked all 75 slot machine games, but I only checked the details if they had Jackpots > 100 CR. Most slot machine games had been completely unused (no Top Winner, zero Jackpot).
There is a big mistake they have done, NO EASY RULES OK, they explained how to buy a package, and can win 100.000€ if you buy a Vegas Tycoon. But WHAT NEXT??
1) THE GAMES SUCK
Surely there are some casino games, you can play some black jack, roulette, but I personally have some other games (video slots) as my favorite.
None of them are there, and the slots available in CoinVegas are maybe good looking but beside that they suck and you get tired very fast.
2) HOW TO CASH OUT?
Last i checked i can only cash out in Bitcoins. Can someone confirm that??
3) EXAMPLE 1:
A buy a Tycoon Vegas (5000€-Cash)….
-get 60.000CR?
-The people above me get BV
-I don’t play at all, just wait for the 100.000€ WIN
-Can I cash Out whenever I want??
-Cash out only in Bitcoin?
4) EXAMPLE 2:
A buy a Trader Vegas (500€) with my OneCoins….
-A gift code for this using Onecoin = 1000 OneCoin
(the same as buying packages)
-now they have promotion: you get double amount of CR: 20.000
-The people above me get BV
-I play, play, play, play, and win….so I have 25.000CR
-Can I Cash Out wehenever I want??
-Cash out only in Bitcoin?
So as you can see, there’s a lot of complications, not so easy like normal casinos (Bet365,Betsson,Unibet)
FIRST IT WAS GOLD – Noone knew what they got for Gold Coins, It was 1mg Gold/Coin now there is AGC coins… AGC = 10mg of gold, but you can’t sell it. You have to buy more first(at expensive prices)…
THEN IT IS CASINO: No FAQ, NO easy rules, You have to buy packages,The casino games suck, cash out ONLY in BITCOINS?
THIS IS NO GOOD START FOR UTILIZING ONECOINS. NOTHING SIMPLE, MAYBE THEY SHOULD START ACADEMY LEVEL 6 = HOW TO USE ONECOINS WHEN YOU HAVE ONECOINS 😉
let’s paste their HELP SECTION which is available here:
37.114.77.97/en-gb/support/help.aspx
OH YEAH 😀
Isn’t this just another avenue to keep the money flowing back to her?
Who is the founder of coinvegas? Thought I read somewhere coinvegas came out of conligus or started by one or more of the cast of characters she knows?
The money laundry Ruja Avenue – better name?
A woman who knows how to transfer money, legalize it, or hide if someone wants it. The business woman In Bulgaria has only one criteria needed for a win: To launder so much money as possible 😉
Ruja Ignatova – the most superior winner of all time.
Well put Ben!
Has the onecoinscam.com site been closed down? I can’t access it, still says, account suspended. That was a great site for condensed info.
There won’t be any money flowing back to her. CoinVegas won’t accept money (e.g. credit cards). It will accept OneCoins as the primary currency.
“OneCoin laundering” isn’t illegal. Currently there’s no law against that type of “money laundering”. 🙂
But don’t you have to sign up, buy a package using money in return for credits, tokens, whatever you get? So if OneCoin isn’t illegal, then it is legal in the US?
Is it the mlm side of the biz that is questionable in the US that would get her in trouble in the US then, if the SEC would find something on the biz, even if she gets/has a license or whatever document required to operation in the US?
Can any of you sharp people who know how to do the research in this post find out, get a hold of a legal document?
There is a list of “The Top Direct Selling Products in 2015”.
I marked the list posting as spam. No idea what it has to do with anything and besides, it’s a popularity voting contest that has no basis in reality.
BusinessForHome runs their voting polls to drive traffic to the site, they don’t actually mean anything.
not only the MLM side of the business, ruja’s onecoin itself is a farce.
IMO onecoin does not have registration with the SEC, and has not even registered itself in any state of the US to do business.
onecoin has most probably, entered the US with stealth and undercover, which would explain why ruja and her top guys did not have the guts to physically step into the US.
she is generously leaving all the trouble which may ensue for onecoin, on the table of the sucker US investors and recruiters.
BusinessForHome was also the site that named Dawn Wright-Olivares of Zeek Rewards MLM Person of the Year. Go figure.
Ted used to be really heavy on anti-scam. He was one of the first to bust TVI Express, until his site got hit by a DDOS. No idea why he went soft and cuddly on Zeek and I doubt he ever recovered.
Found this old article about Bulgarian Ponzi schemes.
Ruja is the modern “pharoah”. Maybe we need to nickname her “Cleo”
vagabond.bg/high-beam/item/2117-derelict-bulgaria-part-2.html
OneCoin just had a full packed house– Launch in Florida. USA is building fast….??? They are looking legit, which is confusing me 🙁
Sounds like a recruiting drive to me. The sort of things undercover agents might attend.
The USA launch was the webinar, anything else is recruitment events organized by US affiliates trying to recruit new investors.
Here’s the other Launch Party Events:
eventbrite.com/e/onecoin-usa-launch-party-florida-tickets-17620249641
Another well known MLM Junkie, J. Ryan Conley, is stating that OneCoin is now doing over $50M a week in revenue and has 450,000 reps in 9 months:
facebook.com/j.ryan.conley/posts/10152831549272282
(Ozedit: Please don’t just post links with no explanation)
I’ve go a feeling something is wrong with Onecoin…Juha? Are you sick? Ruja, too many cashing out?
World Stats. 8 days before the USA Grand Opening and 8 days after.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SBb_LVrPhIg6ygGocIFOSV9IROEgeWWSDzUcDig9Orw/edit?usp=sharing
Are people able to sign up on the OneCoin website now, since they launched? If not, what is the method being use?
Is OneCoin a remake of BigCoin that didn’t work? Someone told me that, and I had not heard of BigCoin.
Ruja Sebastian were “involved” in Bigcoin yes. They got the experience from there.
Just that should be enough to predict the future of Onecoin.
Thanks Ben. Another question for you or anyone that would know the answers. What was “Prosper”? Was that like a Paypal, ewallet method of paying with BigCoin? What is it now with OneCoin?
I hear where most people are signing up, not on the site, but through a distributor taking money through a bank wire or Paypal, etc. Is this legal to do? Is the OneCoin site not working to go there and sign up?
Prosper, I’ve heard about it but others know better.
—————————————————————-
That’s why LONI DON’T KNOW SO BASIC THINGS ABOUT ONECOIN!!!! You remove to much here.
The first link was an example of a sign up link, that every member in Onecoin gets. Find some examples:
(Ozedit: referral codes removed)
Sign up whatever account you find on the net, by doing that you become a Rookie and can access the info pages (no exchange) of the company that you can read about in this article:
The OneCoin website domain (“onecoin.eu”) was registered on June 23rd 2014
There you can read FAQ, PDF, News, play a game Gold miners and so on. Very good way to collect basic information.
The most used way of registering is to sign up and paying the distributor money for this. He will buy a giftcode, and you pay him and don’t need to use credit cards (that aren’t working anyway 😉
I’m not recommending to upgrade, if you do, then you are stupid
I removed an affiliate referral link and an unnecessary link to the OneCoin website itself.
This isn’t the place for a “how to signup as a OneCoin investor” tutorial.
Just use a search engine, Search for this company and what you would do. You should get your answer.
But it is a little strange that’s impossible to register through the company. You have to know somebody, and get his sign up link, and he will get provision for all payments you then make.
So if you register, there has to be somebody who will get BV for you. Is this model in other MLM-companies too? I think the company would benefit if people registered directly to the company.
This is typical of schemes that pay on recruitment (which OneCoin obviously does).
It’s the most typical solution. “Get a referral link first”.
Some companies can use a “rotator” and assign new signups (without referral ID) to one of the existing affiliates. That will typically create some suspicion, e.g. “we haven’t received one single referral from the rotator!”.
Some admins just also quietly put all non-ref affiliate signups under themselves…
“The most used way” will usually be the one you used = sign up for the FREE account first, then wait and see if it’s worth paying for. Existing affilates will try to “push” their own referral links onto anyone as soon as they have a chance.
FREE accounts will almost always have tens of times more registered users than PAID accounts.
Some people may create multiple sub-accounts right from the start, because it may be easier to sell an account “close to the top, registered before it seriously started to grow” than it will be to sell a new one.
One question = do you have any referral links yourself? Can you recruit someone / sign up new accounts under your own account?
And some will sell them as “hot leads”, just to make sure they will make some money on them.
9.5 252.000 352.000 236
17.5 272.000 192.000 179
15.7 450.000 350.000 192
they updated once the flag counting system.
9.5 there were 100.000 (rookies?) more people counting flags than the front page ticker.
a week later they “updated the flag system?” and deleted 40% of the accounts.
nowadays how it works, you don’t know but i’m sure that the front page ticker don’t show the real number of users.
-how many of them are blue “rookies”?
-the flag system show 100.000 less than the ticker
-multiple accounts.. I have 3 Juha has at least 6, i know people who has 10+++
-China numbers are really fake. 225.000?? now way!
of course I have. I have 3 rookies below me which I made for testing. So I should have 4 referral links, but you will never see them, that’s for sure.
date/users counting flags/front page ticker/countries – China – USA
09.5 352.000 252.000 236 – 139.616 – 4171
17.5 192.000 272.000 179 – 126.685 – 699
29.6 315.518 425.000 185 – 224.779 – 2558
07.7 330.394 438.800 190 – 235.868 – 3008
15.7 350.000 450.000 192 – 245.730 – 3482
18.7 355.??? 455.300 192 – 248.436 – 3591
Very interesting US numbers
(admin:these are correct numbers please delete the earlier )
(edited 15.7-18.7)
09.5 352.000 252.000 236 – 139.616 – 4171
17.5 192.000 272.000 179 – 126.685 – 699
29.6 315.518 425.000 185 – 224.779 – 2558
07.7 330.394 438.800 190 – 235.868 – 3008
15.7 343.754 450.000 192 – 245.730 – 3482
18.7 ???.??? 455.300 ??? – 248.436 – 3591
It was exactly what I asked about.
In a program called “Rippln”, the ratio between signups and real members was 200:1 = 1.3 million signups converted into 6,000 paying members once the program launched.
But “Rippln” was a special case, I don’t believe OneCoin has a similar ratio.
If a program has free “entry level positions” then the ratio will be more free members than paying members. People will sign up to look at it, but only a small fraction will actually join. People will also create multiple “empty accounts” right from the beginning.
The ratio will depend on the individual program, e.g. on how eager they are to look bigger and more successful than they really are. And Ruja Ignatova is clearly eager to look more successful than she really is.
what do you think the real number of users is??
I think 60-70.000+China. And China?? Nobody knows, but I haven’t seen any articles writen in chinese, youtube videos in chinese have no hits…it could be 10000 or less….But i suspect 90% are accounts made by Ruja’s robot.
Could someone give me examples who had 50.000+++ of users?? MLM companies of course.
I have no idea. I have used multiple methods to try to estimate it, but I still don’t have any clear idea.
Methods I have used:
* checked Alexa ranking (multiple times).
* checked CoinVegas activity (day 4 and day 5)
* carefully checked the “Dubai Event” video for some “special effects”
* checked the MMG forum thread (not very active)
* checked local online activity in Norway (not very active)
* checked cryptocurrency forums (not very popular)
* tried to check Conligus’ activity (February 2014 March 2015)
* asked about your free accounts
* checked the activity in this thread and the other ones
The general activity on the internet has been relatively LOW, indicating less than 20,000 active members. The problem with my methods there is that they all are based on internet activity, so they have some limitations.
What I clearly can say is that OneCoin’s management actively is trying to make it look bigger and more successful than it really is. The system is also designed for that purpose, e.g. multiple accounts is a common practice (even you have 4 accounts, “just because you liked to try it”).
I will check the videos/pictures from dubai event. Based on 2500-3000 attendants there (then the ticker was 250.000, flags 192.000) it looked big..
and 2/3 should be from China. (127k/192k)
* Zeek Rewards had 880,000 members when it was shut down in August 2012. Most of them joined in the last 4 months. OneCoin will not reach that size, it simply doesn’t have that “magical component”.
The “magical component” you should look for is when the majority of people talking about it is quite ordinary people. It will be reflected in multiple posts here, “You haven’t understood the business! Penny auctions are highly profitable!” (or whatever the business pretends to be about).
* Telexfree had more than one million members (2013/2014), but it was actively marketed to quite vulnerable people in low income countries. OneCoin doesn’t match that profile, it tries primarily to attract “opportunity seekers”.
* Empower Network probably had around 50,000 members (2013).
None of those examples will really help you.
GUMP HUNTING
To understand that “magical component”, the concept of GUMP hunting is very close to it.
scam.com/showthread.php?7442-Emerald-Passport-LLI-Coastal-Eventis-All-GUMP-Hunt&p=121974#post121974
GUMP hunting programs will first of all try to attract quite ordinary people, people with relatively little experience from business, “consumer types of people” or sometimes “followers” = people willing to pay for what they believe they will get.
If you attract enough GUMPs then you will also attract the few experienced sales people you need. You won’t need many of them, but you will need many GUMPs to make it become profitable.
The opposite idea is to try to attract many sales people first, and let them go out and recruit “like minded people”. It usually won’t work very well.
Has anyone verified if Ruja actually went to the universities she claims to attended?
We have looked into it several times. Most of it seems to be fake, e.g. half finished studies. She doesn’t seem to be very stable as a person.
I checked something around post #98 in this thread, but we have actually looked into it multiple times.
Post #98.
behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/onecoin-review-100-5000-eur-ponzi-point-cryptocurrency/#comment-334116
The “magical factor” I mentioned is about when quite ordinary people, “not identifiable as belonging to one certain group of people”, can be tricked to believe in something.
Zeek had that factor = most people believed penny auctions were highly profitable “based on common sense”, they didn’t need a lot of explanations to believe in that idea. They also believed in certain other ideas.
They don’t need to believe strongly in those ideas, i.e. they don’t need to be brainwashed. It’s more about “accepting ideas” than about “strong beliefs”.
People CAN accept that cryptocurrencies can have a value, but OneCoin really seems to struggle to get it accepted among the masses of “ordinary people”. So it doesn’t really have that “magical factor” I mentioned.
That “magical factor” is usually a combination of factors in balance with each other, e.g. the idea “Empowering women” + some selfdev program + the opportunity to sell it to others + that it really feels like a real business (it doesn’t trigger any “scam alert” functions in the brain) + that it is recommended by Oprah Winfrey. 🙂
A truly successful scam should contain elements like that. 🙂
The MLM Junkies are still trying to justify why One Coin isn’t a scam:
facebook.com/j.ryan.conley/posts/10152841382317282
Why do they focus on the audit so much? Nobody is arguing the crypto script isn’t doing what it’s supposed to do.
The problem is the mined coins are serving as Ponzi points, backed by nothing other than the rate of new investment into OneCoin.
Whether the altcoin script functioning is audited or not is neither here nor there. It’d be like Zeek Rewards getting the Zeekler auctions audited (in that listing were being made), totally irrelevant.
writing your own email is akin to writing your own ‘press release’. just sayin.
…or your own Forbes interview. BAM!
Why not do an audit to confirm a better and more sucure coding of Onecoin than Bitcoin? Or the other statements?
Anyone can do an own cryptocurrency/do auditions like that to confirm blockchain.
Why not give chance to an independent audition? Not only for a paid one by Onecoin ltd?
—————————————-
OneCoin is a Scam because its whole business model. They do not sell Onecoins/just selling education. Promising future profits because the value will rice? HOW? The Value of Onecoin = AIR
Current sellings are the money from new accounts… NOTHING ELSE.
lol. yep.
I often wonder why, if these non-existent ‘crypto-currencies’ are so valuable, the major players in computing (microsoft, dell, apple, IBM, etc) have done absolutely nothing to take advantage of the perceived wealth just ‘hidden’ out there.
Surely they have the edge on knowing where these things allegedly are right?
Exactly. “Anyone can check a blockchain’s integrity, they won’t need an auditing firm for that”. But they can’t call it “auditing”. They will need to call it “internal control” or something similar.
Auditing firms can offer 3 out of 4 types of services.
1. Auditing work required by law.
2. Work closely related to a required audit / based on an audit.
3. Non-audit services, something ANY firm can do.
4. Prohibited non-audit services.
Blockchain control is a non-audit service, a type of service ANY firm can do. It’s not prohibited to check a blockchain.
The use of audting firms is very common for Ponzi schemes. USFIA / Gemcoin has a report too. 🙂
usfia.1diq.com/15-milliard-de-garantie/
An auditing firm counted 40 boxes of “valuable blue amber rings”, each box estimated to contain 4×200 rings, claimed to be worth $15 billion total, claimed to back up the value of Gemcoin.
usfia.1diq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/10999718_1601441020115541_6777797209189904944_o.jpg
If any OneCoin members make some claims about that blockchain auditing, you can simply show them that “audit reports” are commonly used in fraudulent schemes.
AnyOne some information what happened to Conligus? Is it still alive? People lost any money???
facebook.com/OneCoinOne/posts/1451219005169261:0
onecoin.eu/news/details/conligus_team_joins_onecoin_network
Forecast of our total customers:
2014: 1.000.000
2015: 10.000.000
2016: 100.000.000
after 9 weeks : 50.000 Marketing centers in 160 Countries
do anyone know how far they achevied the goals??
The usual suspect HYIP ponzi forums had it marked as closed and inactive at the beginning of February this year.
One can only assume the majority of members (predictably) lost money.
Question for the board:
Tom McMurrain is pumping OneCoin hard. Tom was also a promoter of Flexkom.
Yesterday, he posted this message (which included a picture of Dr. Ruja Ignatova on the cover of Forbes Magazine) to his Facebook page:
Tom McMurrain claims to be an Internet Expert. If so, I would assume he NOW understands Forbes DID NOT PUT Dr. Ruja Ignatova on the cover. As someone already pointed out on another OneCoin thread after doing the research:
Here is my question: Is Tom aware of this and still pumping for dollars OR is he a bit naive as to what is actually going on?
In my opinion, Tom (and others) are FULLY AWARE and are still recruiting other investors for their own enrichment.
Didn’t people like Tom McMurrain learn anything from companies like Zeek, Flexkom and Achieve?
I would appreciate other board members sharing their thoughts and opinions.
My opinion is, that many of the members have noticed what’s goin on. XcoinX is the biggest reason. Then how their internal exchange is working.
The stupid people just wait for their millions in couple of years, but everyone else who has traded anything, has noticed that this is not going to work properly for long.
I could also make money on this, but I know this is bullshit. I’m not so greedy.
Worst is Stefan Sjödin from Sweden. He knows since April (or earlier) that this will collapse. But he collects bonuses every monday and will do anything to keep this going on.
On FB he is dictator to the Swedish community and not allowing to discuss about “negative info”. He threw away ten of users already from the group…
By the way you can see his article here…He knows what Onecoin really is and write such a crap. What a man!!
coinnewsasia.com/stefan-sjodin-onecoin-will-be-the-big-money-in-trading/
It’s probably possible to ask Semper Fortis (the auditor firm) to clarify what the auditing report actually is.
EU Statutory Audit Directive 2006/43/(EC) (“the 8th Directive”) separates between “statutory audit” and other types of services.
“Statutory audit” in that context will be annual auditing reports / consolidated accounts, and can only be done by licensed audit firms / licensed auditors.
Audit firms will also need to follow some rules about non-audit services. I only tried to identify the existence of rules, and I didn’t focus on any details.
RELEVANT QUESTIONS
1. According to the video interview with Ruja Ignatova, the blockchain audit seems to be a non-financial, non-statutory audit, i.e. not required by law, not regulated by law, not based on financial data from the company’s accounts?
– – – –
2. “Not regulated by any law” means it can be classified as a type of “non-audit service”?
The question tries to separate between “statutory audits” and “non-audit services”.
– – – –
3. Can you clarify what type of “transactions” you were talking about in the video interview / answer to OneCoin affiliates?
* “Not based on financial accounts” should normally mean that they are of a different type than financial transactions between accounts in bookkeeping?
– – – –
BACKGROUND FOR THE QUESTIONS
OneCoin affiliates have referred to that report, and have tried to use it as a type of “proof” in marketing. Those 3 questions seem to be relevant to ask.
I’m trying to clarify this for ordinary internet users (non-professionals), e.g. I’m trying to point out that some of the statements can be misleading.
SOURCES
I have looked at the following sources.
A. Video interview with Ruja Ignatova.
youtube.com/watch?v=gGt9uBuHu6w
B. Presentation during the OneCoin “Dubai Event”, May 15 2015.
youtu.be/v0_4mJ4ag4c
C. Facebook post, citing a reply from Semper Fortis to a OneCoin affiliate.
facebook.com/j.ryan.conley/posts/10152841382317282?_rdr=p
That Facebook source:
hmmm, I’ve been thinking more about the law worldwide and I’m sure that The bigger Onecoin grows, the more governments will get involved. In Us it’s not licensed as far I know.
But in China? I found this very interesting.
lehmanlaw.com/resource-centre/faqs/banking-finance/faq-on-direct-sales-in-china.html
businessforhome.org/2015/07/china-increases-restrictions-against-network-marketing-entering-their-marketplace/
Technically, “chuanxiao” 传销 is “pyramid sales”, though China makes no distinction between MLM and pyramid sales.
It is also worth pointing out that a direct sales license must be issued by Ministry of Commerce and Industry. One cannot engage in direct sales without it. Crooks are often fond of claiming that “it’s pending”.
USFIA, aka 美洲礦业, aka Gemcoin, aka UCCA, falsely claimed to have pending direct sales permit in China, wanted people to buy options and protostocks in his amber biz.
Got chased out of several cities and nation-wide raid of reps in June 2014, leading to 22 arrests. Some escaped to Thailand, but Chinese agents infiltrated USFIA Thailand meeting in October 2014 and got Thai police to arrest suspects to be extradited back to China.
In November, USFIA started up “Gemcoin” and kept on going, except this time they stayed out of China.
It amazes me every time I log into Facebook. The people that are pumping this Onecoin ponzi scam.
I just had to unfriend Lee Oshea, as I could see him publically shaming people who are nervous about investing in this shite.
He is the one that was pumping Ufun a couple of months ago. Posting video’s and doing Skype calls to drag people in. Then posting about how much money he is making.
Of course he is making money at the moment. He is making it from the people who will lose again.
In my opinion, these people are the worst kind of scumbags. Come across as your friend. Get you to pump your money in, then if you get nervous, publically humiliate you.
Depends on how far you want to go, humiliate him back.
Report him as promoting scam, post his HISTORY of promoting scam, report his humiliation as online bullying (Facebook “love” that), challenge his bullying with “So you never matured beyond middle school eh? Grow up, man.”
May not want to do this with your primary account, of course. 😉
The leader in Finland talks in Moscow. 15 people attented:
—–> s29.postimg.org/a2kibbnnr/moskova.jpg
Here his mathematical skills. How much is 1% of countries people:
—–> youtube.com/watch?v=f-QbvlWG88E
The whole presentation here: (english, russian)
—–> youtu.be/TJwMiWWbzec
—–> youtu.be/4sFSJF56-dk
Onecoin 2.0 collapse in Spain, 20 arrested:
(Ozedit: See here https://behindmlm.com/companies/spanish-police-make-arrests-in-unetenet-ponzi-case/)
that Lee O Shea was the one who got a good friend of mine into Onecoin, and I basically had an argument with him via facebook. Such a clueless buffoon
It should be possible to find better questions to ask than the ones I found there. They were “too technical”. 🙂
The problem is that accounting and auditing ARE based on very formal rules and technical procedures. It will be possible to deflect too “non-technical question”.
I will try some new questions, based on a different method.
QUESTIONS TO DIAN DIMITROV, SEMPER FORTIS
QUESTIONS 1, 2 and 3
Can you identify what you haven’t audited, based on my description here?
OneCoin as a business offer an income opportunity to affiliates, where the affiliates can purchase membership packages in the price range €100, €500, €1,000, €3,000 and €5,000.
The membership packages contain 50, 250, 500, 1500 and 2500 “Aurum Gold Coins” digital currency. They also contain “tokens” internal currency, “valued” at a price of €0.05 – €0.10 per token. The tokens will gradually “rise in value” until they reach a price of €0.10, and then they will “split” (double the number of tokens).
OneCoin also sells “package codes” in the range €130, €530, €1,030, €3,030, €5,030. People can buy those “codes” using internal funds (commissions, etc.) directly from the back office.
Those “codes” can be sold to new members they recruit, generating a monetary transaction from new member → recruiting affiliate, but no monetary transaction from recruiting affiliate → OneCoin. They will however reduce the number of monetary withdrawals (transactions from Onecoin to affiliates).
1. Have you reviewed or audited those membership packages, or any of the transactions related to those membership packages?
2. Have you reviewed or audited any financial or commercial transaction at all in OneCoin’s business?
3. Have you reviewed or audited any of those internal transactions, or any of the monetary transactions?
Note that I separated between real monetary transactions and internal transactions in my description.
QUESTION 4
OneCoin’s business model can be seen in many different ways.
* As a legitimate commercial business, selling membership packages via a network of affiliates, paying commissions through multiple levels based on the sale of membership packages.
* As a pyramid scheme, primarily paying rewards for the recruitment of additional participants.
* As a legitimate or fraudulent investment scheme, primarily selling “investment objects” to investors.
4. Have you looked into the business model at all?
SOURCES I HAVE LOOKED AT
A. “OneCoin Audit Report” video interview with Ruja Ignatova and Dian Dimitrov, Semper Fortis.
youtube.com/watch?v=gGt9uBuHu6w
– – – –
B. “Dubai Event May 15 2015” video of a presentation of audit report by Dian Dimitrov, Semper Fortis.
youtu.be/v0_4mJ4ag4c
– – – –
C. Facebook, OneCoin affiliate presenting a copy of an email from Dian Dimitrov, Semper Fortis.
facebook.com/j.ryan.conley/posts/10152841382317282
– – – –
D. A review of the OneCoin business opportunity.
behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/onecoin-review-100-5000-eur-ponzi-point-cryptocurrency/
– – – –
E. Additional sources, e.g. EU Audit directives, some general “Auditing Tools” information websites, Wikipedia and similar sources, forum posts from affiliates, OneCoin’s own presentations.
– – – –
Every question you pose is beyond the scope of the work contracted for.
Had Semper Fortis conducted a comprehensive audit as you seem to imagine they have or wish they would, Semper Fortis would be bound by a non-disclosure agreement and would never answer your questions.
If you want such information you need to cozy up to Ruja, convince her to pay for a comprehensive audit and have her authorize Semper Fortis to share its findings with you personally.
Go for it.
My “questions to Dian Dimitrov, Semper Fortis” had some missing information.
1. I didn’t describe the functions of the tokens.
2. I didn’t organize the information into groups.
3. Questions should probably be made more specific, to make it more difficult to “deflect” questions.
4. “Where can the complete, written audit report be found online?”
I’m not trying to correct his report, I’m trying to correct how the report is being used by OneCoin management and the affiliates. So my questions are relevant from the scope I’m trying to cover.
An auditor should normally be able to answer what he hasn’t covered too. It has partly been answered in one of the videos, but affiliates are using it as a “proof” for more than what it seems to cover.
I have used the information in the videos too. Ruja Ignatova briefly mentions that “We are not accounted” at 4:30 into one of the videos.
youtube.com/watch?v=gGt9uBuHu6w?t=4m30s
I’m simply trying to clarify what that statement means in reality.
Dian Dimitrov says an audit is about procedures to establish whether statements are true, and I’m asking about the details for that — what it doesn’t cover.
Questions about what it doesn’t cover can be just as relevat as questions about what it does cover.
One of OneCoin’s affiliates have published a copy of an email from Dian Dimitrov on Facebook, and have tried to use it as a “proof” for that OneCoin isn’t a scam. The audit report doesn’t cover anything like that, i.e. it can’t be used as that type of “proof”.
It doesn’t exactly cover the “legitimacy of onecoin as a genuine crypto currency” either, or “the strategy of Ruja Ignatova”.
You can’t correct or control that. The audit is paid for and its the property of Ruja. She can put it all over You tube, e-mail it and advertise it in Forbes if she wants.
You can ask any question you like but don’t think for a moment anyone at Semper Fortis is obliged to answer you.
That’s rather obvious. I will usually not post statements that should be obvious to anyone.
“Correct how people use it” simply means I can make it become more difficult for them to use it as a “proof”, by offering the right type of resistance.
The audit report doesn’t prove that OneCoin isn’t a scam or that the coins have value. It simply didn’t focus on questions like that. It actually indicates the opposite = that the mining and the coins don’t have any value that can be recognized in a business — since he DIDN’T need to check accounting.
Transaction history this week: No comments 😉
s21.postimg.org/95ay9rphj/this_week_sales_ONECOIN.png
I’ll guess that screenshot is from the internal exchange?
I tried to check the external exchange xcoinx.com, but it currently doesn’t work for any external visitors “coming in through the front door” (no “register account”, no “log in”, no “News”, outdated FAQ copied from Bitstamp, many “Coming Soon” banners, etc.).
LOL u are funny!!
like Greenwood or Ruja would have said:
“The Only Exchange”
I did,’t know that XcoinX.com is called exchange 😉
It’s more like an Info site for “understanding the value of Onecoin”
The questions are relevant but Semper Fortis will never answer them. Demanding an auditor answer questions about what he did not do is plain silly.
Should he be required to explain to you that he did not calculate the distance to the moon measured in bitcoin diameters. There are an infinite number of things he did not do. What is important is what he did do.
The scope of the the audit was made very clear. It was a blockchain audit.
You want it to be something it isn’t.
I don’t have any problem with that. 🙂
But then he can’t complain either that nobody checked his version first before they started to criticize his integrity as an auditor (“in case I do that”).
I’m not sure I will ask HIM any questions either, or that I will ask ANYONE any questions. I’m still in the middle the process where I’m analysing relevant questions to ask. Many answers will probably be found on the internet.
Post #644: Started to look into it.
Post #652: Tried a different perspective, and I identified why.
Post #654: Made some corrections to post #652.
And I haven’t finished that process.
I think you would be way off base if you did that.
Unless I missed it, he did not endorse One Coin. In fact when asked what he thought of the future prospects of that business he gave a completely non committal answer, as is appropriate given his professional status and the scope of his enquiry.
How the heck would he know if the business was sound or profitable? He wasn’t engaged to audit the business, but the blockchain and presumably that is all he did.
He’s a licensed bean counter for heaven’s sake, paid to do a specific job by a client and you expect him to join in your conspiracy theory and stick his nose in places he is not paid to look, and then go public with whatever upsets him.
That is a great way to lose clients and ruin his career and get himself and his company sued into oblivion for professional misconduct.
Should you decide to call him out on his integrity, he will think you a lunatic.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K4_XnXuTadmW6W7RpSdWKbqiT6sYOlHXRGUPjaANiAs/edit?usp=sharing
postimg.org/image/sj5jokvd7/full/
Onecoin is clearly slowing down.
More comments inside
small bugs/changes will be only updated on the sheet.
The ticker number should be 461.000 (460.000 on the pic)
One thing that should be audited is ONE-EXCHANGE!!!
Have you thought how much money Ruja make on fees/spread??
Can she do whatever she wants?? Or can we make her publish some stats and make the exchange more visible??
Nowadays this market is 100% FAKE AND MANIPULATED!!!
Every trader who will see Ruja’s exchange will laugh out loud how people can be so quiet using this crap. And an audition for this kind of exchange will never happen.
I don’t know how to interpret the spreadsheets you posted. How can you tell its slowing down?
What’s to learn? He’s a thief amongst thieves doing what he does best in this con man’s game, i.e. recruitment based business opportunities.
Tom McMurrain is an ex-con who pled guilty to fraud and served prison time – after he fled to Panama and had to be extradited of course. Links to court docs can be found on Chang’s site.
kschang.blogspot.com/2011/06/who-heck-is-tom-mcmurrain-and-why-was.html
That one was easy. She’s not making any money on it. She’s making some worthless “Ponzi points” from a “Cash Account” or a “Mandatory Account”.
I have no idea which “conspiracy theory” you’re talking about there?
I have seen Dian Dimitrov as one of the sources for misinformation. It’s based on that people actually seem to have misinterpreted something about the blockchain audit.
* It’s based on the Facebook link in post #632.
facebook.com/j.ryan.conley/posts/10152841382317282
* And I have looked into 2 of the video presentations (post #652).
youtube.com/watch?v=gGt9uBuHu6w
youtu.be/v0_4mJ4ag4c
* I have also looked into various “Auditing Tools” sources.
And that’s basically all I currently have looked into. I have no idea what you have focused on here.
Signups per day last 8-day periods
World (flags) 1860-1670-1297
Ticker 1725-1463-1363
China 1386-1233-921
Other w/o China 473-437-376
top 10 countries:
2 Thailand 47-28-35
3 Vietnam 62-60-53
4 Malaysia 27-33-17
5 Sweden 25-31-27
6 Finland 11-16-12
7 Russia 18-12-12
8 USA 56-59-43
9 Ukraine 17-14-10
12 Germany 27-38-41
Thanks. This must show three successive eight day periods then?
What is Ticker?
too many numbers I guess??? 😉
the periods are:
17.5->29.6
29.6->7.7
7.7->15.7
15.7->23.7
The ticker is their own members count from their front page. Right now 462.652. Ruja, Sebastian, all members are watching this ticker all the time. But as you can see it shows at least 100.000 too many users. I wrote about this fake counting earlier here.
Did he lie about something?
Ben, are you the person who signed up with OneCoin as a rookie?
If so, or for the person that did, is OneCoin letting rookies to generate income now? Don’t rookies drop off after a certain period of time, if they didn’t buy a package?
I had heard this, but don’t know how true it is. If it is true, then that kinda says, they aren’t getting people in with purchasing packages, and have to throw an incentive in there to keep the rookies and hope they will eventually buy a package.
That also may mean the ticker numbers aren’t all purchasers?
I’ve got a account from Juha. He drinks too much and if Whiskey is good then he gives away free gift codes to Onecoin. (and he gets them for free from Ruja, what else)
So my sponsor is actually Juha.
No, Rookies should not get any income. The amount you can make per day is the value of your package. 100€ package=700€/week. BUT, I’ve heard already 2 times that Rookies can make some income…but how much and how is unclear to me. This kind of company can have different rules every day.
A tycoon should generate max 35000€/week but recently Tommi Vuorinen in Moscow was claiming it was 50000€. So officially is 35000€ but you never know what tomorrow it can be.
Tommi said also that they will soon offer an ELITE TYCOON for 100.000€ getting 1.200.000 Tokens. He did not mention anything more but IT IS VERY STUPID TO BUY ONE FOR 100.000€ rather than 20 tycoons. It’s better to buy 20 tycoons and sell them to yourself getting over 35-30% back as bonuses. Or maybe someone has a target to make 100.000€ a day? I don’t know.
I know that before they were counting the rookies, but I think nowadays if they not upgrade within 15 days they take away the account??? Try to make one by yourself. Find any Onecoin signup and you can make one with a fake email.
Nowadays, as you can see in my stats sheet, some countries have negative growth. In my network I’ve had tens of rookies since beginning and i haven’t seen any “frozen” accounts so far.
So they began to clean up, that’s why the ticker is not ticking so fast nowadays. But counting the flags you get 354.000 including some rookies. But how many? I don’t know. In my tree 50% are blue Rookies.
So what the real number is and what the ticker and flags are showing, can you only speculate.
When people are talking about income in Ponzi schemes, they’re usually talking about internal payouts of “Ponzi points” to the back office. They’re not talking about withdrawals of real money.
To make €50,000 in a week, he will need to generate an equal amount of “Gift Codes” and sell them for CASH to newly recruited investors. People will need to pay him directly with real money “from the outside”.
It doesn’t cost him any money.
It can actually bring in some money if you recruit someone and buy gift codes from him (if the newly recruited investor buy gift codes from you, and you buy gift codes from Juha).
I don’t think he get those gift codes for free. But he doesn’t pay any money for them. It’s a difference between “for free” and “doesn’t pay any money”, the first one indicates that he doesn’t pay anything at all.
You don’t buy a package from Juha. He sells his own code packages.
For example you buy from him for 50.000€. Then he gives you codes for 60.000-?0.000€ (depending on how much you buy/how much you know him/contacts/how good negotiator you are/if he needs some BV fast).
You get most gift codes for Tycoons and starters but it’s up to you what codes you want to buy. Then you can also sell with small discounts and give away 10-50 starter packages for free to people hoping they will upgrade in the future.
That’s why his networks grow so fast.. because he also offers the best prices.
I think the max amount made by bonuses is 5000/day.
you get 60& as cash, 40% in Onecoins
So far it’s only Tommi who has claimed the 50000€.
————————————-
One big new change was announced last week.
You can send money to your “upline”, or was it to your downline??? Anyone have seen the state of the nation last week ?
————————————-
By the way, their casino SUCKS!! Only one black jack table and the rake is 10%. You bet 10CR you win 18CR. Equal means 9CR back. Another game has 30% RAKE!!!! you bet 10, when you should win 20, you get only 14!!!! THAT REALLY SUCKS!!
Euro in a bank account is a type of money. It can be used directly to pay bills / transfer it to other bank accounts / cash it out through an ATM, etc. – as long as the bank is a healthy one.
Euro in a back office account is a type of “empty promise”. You can’t use it directly to pay bills, etc. – someone will first need to keep a promise and bring in real money from a real bank account before it can be withdrawn to the real world.
If OneCoin had been a healthy company it wouldn’t have been any problem. Healthy companies can use back office accounts to temporary store transactions, e.g. multiple commission payouts can be collected into one weekly withdrawal to prevent too many small transactions.
The “cash” you’re talking about there isn’t really cash. It’s a type of Ponzi points transferred to an internal “Cash Account” to make it look like real money.
The “money” Tommi is making is most likely of the internal type, and I’m pretty sure he will need to spend most of it on the inside (e.g. on buying “Gift Codes”).
That’s very common in Ponzi schemes. People in upline will transfer “internal funds” downwards in the system. In exhange for that, they will get a fair share of new money coming in from the outside (e.g. if you recruit some new investors).
Juha will make money on it if he gives you a €130 or €530 “Gift Code” for free, if you use that gift code to recruit a new member, and the new member later upgrades his account to Tycoon.
It won’t cost him any money to give you a free “Gift Code”, i.e. he won’t need to bring in any money from the outside to purchase it himself. It will only affect his internal accounts.
* If you use it yourself to upgrade your own membership, then he will earn a 10% recruitment commission on it.
* He will earn binary commission on it, and potentially a matching bonus.
* If you sell it to a new member, then you will earn a cash payment and a recruitment commission. Juha will earn something too. It will become profitable if the new investor upgrades.
In short, giving away “Gift codes” for free will most likely affect his income in a positive way.
I have to disagree. The cash account is the amount you can withdraw anytime and SO FAR I haven’t seen anyone to have problems cashing out. But the mandatory account is a joke. It’s only a way to take 40% of the money back. (or paying 40% less depending on the way of thinking)
For a professional net-worker it’s a good way to promote and to start building his own network. The biggest affect he wants to achieve is to make people talk about Onecoin. The more that knows and talks about Onecoin the bigger network he can build.
But what does people use to buy those “Gift Codes”? Which account?
OneCoin has 2 internal accounts:
* “Cash Account” (60%)
* “Mandatory Account” (40%)
None of them contain any money. OneCoin will need to bring in real money from a bank account to support withdrawals, so I’m pretty sure people will use the “Cash Account” to buy gift codes.
You can pay for a package now with China Union Pay?
You have 5 accounts:
1 – Cash account: With this can you buy everything inside or withdraw them any time. You earn them from bonuses, or whe you sell your Onecoins.
2 – Mandatory account: You buy onecoins or tokens for this from the bonuses. So don’t forget that there are buyers if the network is growing. 40% of the bonuses go to mandatory account and they only can buy tokens/onecoins from there.
3 – Onecoin account: The super currency. So far selling converting it to cash is very difficult. WHY? Because this is where the company loses money. Every Onecoin that is converted to Euro is BAD for the company. The euros are taken from the company’s pockets. Buying giftcodes is possible but expensive. The onecoin rose in value 1.15->1.45 but the price is still the same for a tycoon: 10000 Onecoins (14.500€)
4 – Token accounts: Then you have the Tokens account. It’s not so important nowadays. But if there is a daily buy limit for onecoins it’s better eventually to buy tokens, get split, or mine.
5 – Casino account CR: Then you have Casino CR account. The casino sucks. For normal people they can buy ex. a Vegas Tycoon. They get CR, they get tokens but I doubt that any normal people will ever buy this.
They have a promotion you buy 6 Vegas Tycoon, you get 1 for free. And then everyone that has bought a tycoon can win 100.000€ (60% cash,40 mantadory) every month. The next draw is I think 10.8.
But they made somehow good promotion for Onecoin users. And now the fastest way of cashing out is by Casino.
First you have to understand how the onecoins can be used.
Not everyone can yet use their Onecoins. Tee company loses money. That’s why everyones mined Onecoins are escrowed for 80 days. I’m unsure what’s the rule to the Onecoins you bought in the exchange. I guess the same as with tokens, frozen escrowed for 30 days.
So after 80 days you can sell 1,5% per day on exchange or 10-30-50€ cap per day or you can convert them to CR.
You buy for 100CR- you get double bonus now.
100CR->145€->290€->2900CR.
Then you have to play 15x to be able to cash out. You have to bet 43500CR. But Onecoin has thought about everything.
There is high Rake 10-30% on table games. So playing Black Jack you lose money fast. If you bet 10CR and should win 20CR, you win only 18€. Equal means 9CR back.
When you reach 43500CR played, then it should be possible to cash out. But how and in what currency? I don’t know.
————————————————————
As you can see there is a LOT OF RULES that you have to consider and didn’t know about. But I’m sure that many members have difficulties too.
There are not any simple FAQ, no forums and they will tell you to email the support, or talk to your sponsor/upline if you have any questions 😉
But I mentioned already 2 times, they don’t want the Onecoin to be used, make the rules difficult and harsh to understand, and change the rules often to prevent the using of Onecoins.
And one more thing. The split happened 18.6 and those tokens are mined with difficulty 13. So there will be a lot of new Onecoins in 1-2 months time…. Everyone who got the split (200.000 members?) is still waiting for their onecoins.
So I guess you learn a lot today about the real world in Onecoin 😉 It’s not so easy as they tell you in the webinars/presentations.
They use of course the cash account.
The company is operating in a very simple way:
Incomes:———-MONEY IN———-
1: New accounts. They told that 55% go to to the users (bonuses), and 45% go to Ruja Ignatova, the owner. So it’s a lot of money coming in, I count 600€ for every new member. The real number? Only Ignatova knows, and I don’t think she wants to reveal the numbers. But in April she bought a 4.200.000€ house in Sofia.
2: I doubt gold selling/casino generate any incomes.
3: Don’t forget the high expenses for using everything inside and high spreads.
4: Mandatory account: They get back money here, and people have to buy onecoins/tokens. But these onecoins will be sold later, so it’s really giving 2-4 months of extra time. The growth is to small nowadays?
Expenses:———-MONEY OUT———-
1: Bonuses
2: Selling Onecoins and taking out money from the cash account.
3: Costs for the staff, offices, network, auditions, events, casino.
4: The Mining. We don’t know if they use any super computers or a simple laptop. Or if there is any mining at all.
5: They are an education company. Costs for the education: 0€
———————————————————
Two numbers are most important here, and these two will decide for how long Onecoin can be alive:
New accounts —-vs—- Onecoins sold and cashed out
It’s harder and harder to get new accounts and continue the same growth in %, but the number of Onecoins available for selling will grow fast this year, and very interesting, the price will just go up???
None of the accounts you mentioned hold any money or any equivalents to money.
When Tommi and others are talking about “making money”, they’re usually talking about those internal accounts. But none of those internal accounts hold any money.
“Making money” is normally about money we have received or have withdrawn completely from the system.
With a real bank account, you won’t need to “withdraw” money first to an external account before you can use it to pay bills or to pay for goods or services, or to withdraw it as cash through an ATM.
A real bank account will hold an equivalent to money.
OneCoin “Cash Account” is clearly not a bank account = it doesn’t hold any money. It means that withdrawals will fail if recruitment of new investors slow down / people withdraw too much.
You are 100% absolutely right: The cash account is not a bank account.
The Onecoin cash account is like holding money in Betsson Casino account or Pokerstars account.
And there are always risks of holding money like at Onecoin, betsson, Pokerstars. Different risks of course. Remember Full Tilt?
It can take 10 days to get the money transferred from the Onecoin to your Bank. (people reported 5-7 days so far)
You can transfer 10000€ to the Onecoin Cash account one day and cash out next day. I wouldn’t do that, but you can try if you want 😉
But what about those gift codes?
If people use the “Cash Account” to buy gift codes, e.g. a €530 gift code to sell to a new investor they have recruited.
* new investor pay €530 → recruiting sponsor’s bank account
* recruiting sponsor pay from “Cash Account” → OneCoin
* new investor will get a gift code from his sponsor
* new investor will use the gift code to buy a Trader package
The money here ends up in the recruiting sponsor’s bank account. Nothing will end up in Ruja’s bank account or OneCoin’s bank account.
There’s only one monetary transaction there = when the newly recruited investor pay €530 to the recruiting sponsor’s bank account. All those other transactions are non-monetary internal transactions.
They always talk about “Total Bonus Received”, but then I ask how much € they can cash out then they do not talk so much 😉
The only money they are making are those in their Cash accounts.
No limits of transerring money to a bank account so far.
You seem very surprised that there are some real money (€) in Onecoin accounts.
Well, You are right here too. A bank can fail too, but there are some guaranties there.
And I’m 100% sure as you say, people will one day lose their money in Onecoin including Cash accounts. (Conligus)
There is also a legal option.(very low chances) They will let the onecoin value be set by the real demand (market value).
Onecoin will stop defending the value as they are doing now. What the market price will be??? maybe 0.00001€? Or much lower because there will be costs to keep alive this kind of currency.
People cash out what they have from their cash accounts. But the company will not be able to operate. No more revenue.
I can’t really understand why you are investigating gift codes. What’s wrong with it? Best to give an example here.
———————————————————-
Alex, Anna are Onecoin members. Peter is a new customer who wants to join Onecoin (530€). Alex has 550€ in his cash account.
option 1: Anna is recruiting Peter. So he pays 530€ by transferring money to Bulgaria. 3 days later he notice that his account has been upgraded. Alex make a withdrawal and gets the money next week.
option 2: Alex knows Anna, and says he has 550€ in his cash account. He want to cash out soon. She says, give me a code for trader+activation, you will get 530€ today. I have a new customer. Ok then, I get the money today and without fees. Peter gives 530€ to Alex. Anna will be his sponsor and get the bonuses.
In option 2 everyone will benefit.
-Onecoin do not need to transfer money to Alex’s account
-Less job for Onecoin (transfering, registering, not all users send money in a correct way)
-Less currency changes
-Alex will get his money much faster
-Peter do not need to transfer money to Bulgaria
-Peter will be registered 2-4 days faster.(eg start mining faster)
-Anna can benefit if it happened in earlier bonus period.
———————————————————-
So why not use option 2? Gift codes are great for everybody.
No, I’m surprised that YOU partly believe there are some real money in the cash account.
You know it isn’t a bank account, but you still partly believe it contains Euro, i.e. that you can transfer Euro back and forth between “Cash Account” and ewallet.
The reason why you can transfer something back and forth is because none of them are bank accounts, so you don’t really transfer any money there. But you will still need to pay transaction fees, because “someone” (not you) will need to perform a real transaction.
Some of those people don’t make any money at all. Some make less than their own investments. Only a low percentage of them will ever make any profit.
WHAT? I can’t understand you. Do you mean that the onecoin cash account is worthless? Are you so sick man, who can’t believe that some people are making money???
If I had 5000€ in my Onecoin cash account today, that would be 5000€ in my bank account next week. I saw yesterday my friends account cashing out 6×5.000€.
Most of the people I know cash out when the cash account is over 1.000€.
Onecoin sell nothing, but the revenue every week is 5 millions+ every week. So if Onecoin get 5.000.000€+ every week, they can easily pay some cash back.
They pay out 1.000.0000–2.000.000€++ in bonuses every week. I can tell you that the bonus system is a party for professional net-workers. (55%!!!!)
Unfortunately I have to warn people here that Mr_Norway is living in his own world. He can’t stand it if he is wrong. He will try to find anything to prove his is right.
I’m not sick, but experienced. I don’t really believe there’s any difference between OneCoin’s “Cash Account” and Zeek Rewards’ “Cash Available” account, or any other Ponzi scheme back office account.
None of them contain any money. The logical reasoning where you came to that conclusion is incorrect.
That logic is partly incorrect.
1. If you have €5,000 in your cash account today, a transaction to the ewallet will have to go through OneCoin. You cannot transfer anything directly yourself, you can only send a withdrawal request to OneCoin.
2. OneCoin will then need to check that it has enough funds in its merchant account. Your ewallet account is a part of OneCoin’s merchant account, it’s not a real bank account in itself.
3. If OneCoin has enough funds in its merchant account then it can perform an internal transaction (not a transaction between bank accounts). If it doesn’t have enough funds there it must bring in funds from other sources first and delay the transaction.
4. When the funds have been made available in your ewallet account, you can normally withdraw it whenever you like, using the transaction method you prefer.
5. The transfer of ownership to the funds will first happen when the amount is withdrawn from the ewallet. You don’t own the funds as long as it is stored in the ewallet (or in a debit card connected to the ewallet). The funds are “available, but not yet withdrawn”.
6. And then the funds will be transferred to your own personal bank account from OneCoin’s merchant account, a monetary transaction between two bank accounts.
IMPLICATIONS?
The amount you can withdraw from your Cash Account will not only be limited by the amount available in that account. It will first of all be limited by the the amount available in OneCoin’s merchant account = the money coming in from new investors.
The main part of that revenue is probably based on internal, non-monetary transactions, e.g. on people reinvesting internal payouts.
* People use the Cash Account to pay for gift codes. That’s not a real revenue, and it can’t support any withdrawals. It can only support more internal payouts.
* People use the mandatory account to pay for onecoins via the internal exchange. That’s not real revenue. OneCoin doesn’t make any money directly on those transactions.
Real revenue will need to be based on real monetary transactions, on “fresh money coming in through the front door”.
Most of those reward and bonuses are probably based on internal, non-monetary transactions, i.e. people are not really making any money there. They will first make money when they withdraw some of it.
You will first need to check whether the explanation is correct anyway, so you will probably not have time to “warn people”. 🙂
Here’s how affiliates might SEE ewallets, from their personal viewpoint based on what they can see with their own eyes.
Zeek Rewards, Declaration of David Sorrells. Paragraphs 2 and 3 are most relevant. Paragraphs 8 through 11 are relevant too, about the freezing of the account.
Paragraph 11:
He could could log into his ewallet account on a regular basis and could see with his own eyes that the funds really were there, but they were “unavailable for transfer”.
He also received a confirmation from NxPay telling him that his funds would be released soon. Then his account went empty after a few days, reflecting a zero balance. 🙂
The problem was that he had misinterpreted the ewallet account. It wasn’t a personal bank account, so the funds it contained didn’t really belong to him.
$373,375.66 had been made available for withdrawal, but hadn’t been withdrawn. So it was returned to the Receivership as Receivership property.
Logical? Then you are not sick, only stupid.
You said “believe” – that’s all? So your conclusion is 99,9% based on what you have seen on your monitor.
I have an account, I know many tycoons making money for months, I’m very close to Juha (my sponsor) I have many friends who joined this. I know this is scum not promoting it, and I’m trying to share true things about Onecoin.
Conclusion? You believe, I see things. You should not write here, you know nothing about Onecoin, only believing.
So this is my “logical” answer. And that’s it.
I used the term “I don’t really believe”. That should normally be the opposite of believing in something.
I have checked exactly the same question in many other Ponzi schemes, the first time in Zeek Rewards in early 2012 when people received tax forms based on internal payouts. So I know the correct answer to the question.
I can clearly defend my conclusion = internal accounts don’t hold any money, they only hold information about what people potentially can be able to withdraw if a scheme has enough money coming in from other investors.
In January a (now ex) friend convinced my wife to put in 130 euro in onecoin. We didn’t – and still don’t – believe in it, but ok, imo it was more to prove this friend wrong that we spend this money.
With the original purchase and then some bonuses we had 472 onecoins.
Because of the unprofessionality of the site and the fake articles, fake election to business woman of the year etc. We considered our 130 euro as lost. So from the moment on that it was possible to sell onecoins we started to do so.
We then encountered numerous stalling mechanisms: We could sell only 1.5% of our coins per day, it most of the times took many days and angry letters to the site manager before coins were sold, etc.
After a few weeks of selling 7 coins a day, then 6 coins a day, then 5 coins a day, 4 coins a day we finally got there were we wanted to be: last week finally we had around 150 euro in our cash account and asked to bank wire it to our bank account. (150 euro because the ask a freaking 20 euro for the bank transfer).
And it happened! As of today we have our 130 euro back.
Now, do I believe in onecoin? NO
Do I think onecoin will ever work in the future? NO
Do I think lots of people will still lose lots of money on onecoin? YES
You might think “why doesn’t he believe in it? he gots its money back?
I just think I’m lucky to start selling the day it was possible and I only had a very small amount to win back.
The day that people start selling their coins and at the same time nobody buys theirs packages anymore it will be over. But as I said, they have lots of stalling mechanisms and huge fees to pay, so this will buy them some time to go on with their scam.
greetings
SG
You have based your interpretation on what you can see with your own eyes, and have interpreted it in context with your own previous experiences and ideas you already had, e.g. about bank accounts.
That’s how Ponzi schemes will try to trick your brain, by making it look similar to ideas you’re already familiar with, tricking your brain to jump to the wrong conclusion based on assumptions. That’s how magicians and con artists work too.
Internal accounts don’t really hold any money, i.e. they are not similar to bank accounts. They only tell you that money CAN be withdrawn if you follow the correct procedure = you can send a withdrawal request to the ones who control the money and they will hopefully transfer money to an external payment system.
So you don’t really “transfer funds” between your internal account and the ewallet. It looks very similar to a transaction of funds, but it isn’t similar enough in reality.
Do you have access to the newsletters → to the initial (May 2015) blockchain audit report from Dian Dimitrov, Semper Fortis?
I tried to find it on OneCoin’s own website, but got a message that it only was available through the newsletters. And I’m not a member of OneCoin, so it won’t make any sense for me to sign up for newsletters either.
The report should normally be publicly available, i.e. it isn’t a “business secret” or “protected material”. But they have made it more difficult than necessary to find it.
You will need to test the system you’re looking at against external sources, e.g. Wikipedia’s description of electronic funds transfer.
Ponzi schemes will try to trick people to believe in ideas that are not really true, by making the system look similar enough to systems they already are familiar with → tricking people to use the wrong types of tests.
In this case, the “Cash Account” looks similar enough to a bank account to be accepted as “real”. You accepted the idea that the “Cash Account” really holds money and can be used to transfer funds directly to an ewallet (“just like a bank account”).
The final result of a “withdrawal request” and a “transfer of funds” will be identical in most cases = some money will be made available in the ewallet. But that doesn’t mean those two processes are identical.
@BEN
Most people here will separate between “Ponzi points” in an internal account and real withdrawals of money. And the “Cash Account” is clearly an internal account.
The balance held in the “Cash Account” can be compared to monopoly money = it can be used inside the game or system as a payment method, but it doesn’t have any function out in the real world.
The organizers can of course make it look like and feel like a “real world payment system” by allowing people to withdraw some of it as real cash.
That’s how OneCoin does it. People wouldn’t have invested anything if they had been unable to withdraw any profit. Withdrawals from the “Cash Account” simply makes the scheme look more believable to investors, so it does have an important function.
Lucky you! 🙂
I have said that people who joined early (mined auto 4) can make money back selling onecoins. It will be difficult for people who joined April or later after the 2nd split.
I would love to see a “printscreen” of the history of your “Onecoin account”. You can see the mining difficulty and then when you sold onecoins. Could you make one screenshot and put it on postimage.org?
Yuo really suck at this. Find a signup, register and you can download all Pdfs, including the audits. You can register with fake info at everything.
And so do you, so what’s your point there?
I have already looked at that option, but I’m simply not interested enough to sign up for that purpose.
People have also offered me to sign up under them (several weeks ago) in the MMG forum.
THESE 4 PDF’S ARE AVAILABLE IN THE DOCS SECTION OF THE ONECOIN SITE:
drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIJ7_jP3tWibGRoTmlad0JfSFE/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/open?id=0BzIJ7_jP3tWiZTdmQ1JNMm9uU00
drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIJ7_jP3tWiZGpBVEtPYy1DTU0/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIJ7_jP3tWiZGpBVEtPYy1DTU0/view?usp=sharing
GRTS
SG
ABOUT THE BLOCKCHAIN I MEAN
I’m not sure what exactly you want me to show, but I’ll try something and you can tell me if that is what you wanted
This is my onecoin transaction history:
drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIJ7_jP3tWiMWxIUW5PWTUxNm8/view?usp=sharing
grts
S.G
My blockchain audit report question was simply an attempt to get some information about how commonly it was used as a “proof”, e.g. how well known that report was among the members.
And you were the first member I could ask.
One OneCoin member used it as a “proof” in a Facebook post, trying to prove that OneCoin wasn’t a scam.
I don’t see that report as very important. It will only be important if many people are using it as a type of “proof”.
Thanks. I can say that it’s 100% real. So the 1.5% rule has not been removed. Sebastian announced that the limits would be 10€-30€-50€ but As I can see here the limit is still 1.5%.
People who joined in April-May mined at 6-11. They can only sell their first coins (not from the split 18.6 at 13). So it’s 2-3/day (starter) and much slower than you.
The coins from the split 18.6 will be available for sell around 10 September.
I recommend that you keep selling and maybe you can find someone in your upline that will transfer the money for you?
You can nowadays transfer money to your upline/downline. The 20€ fee is so ridiculously high, costs them 0€ (simple account to account transaction.
I don’t know. I never tried to involve anybody else.
Well. I got new info from S.G and I think it’s time for an update.
1) Currently: Ticker 467.500 flags 365.000. China 260.000
The ticker will go over 500.000. Real number of members??? It could be 100-250.000. I think Onecoin will grow 50.000-100.000 users more.(ticker)
2) You read it, you saw it. That was an easy prediction.
3) That was a very tough prediction. Then I haven’t seen the exchange at all. Now I have seen some numbers and understand them much more.
The exchange was delayed several times, we have selling limits, but biggest change was that mined coins can’t be used at all for 80 days(escrowed). Then we had a huge number of new users 25.5-15.6 (mining promotion+split)
So what will happen next? We will have a new split 7-8 september. This will accelerate new memberships for a while.
Then 10 September the new coins from the latest split will be open for selling (they are still mined at difficulty 13). This means the selling will accelerate in September-October. I think Onecoin can operate without problems until 15.9. October can be very crucial.
I said there are 2 crucial numbers that decide how healthy Onecoin is. 1->New members (income), 2-> cashing out money from Onecoin selling (costs). We can only guess the real numbers and speculate.
So my new prediction is: No problems until 15.9. Difficulties cashing out may happen in October. But Ruja can see all numbers, and she is calculating everyday too. The price will rice soon to 1.7€? New limits/rules again? We’ll see.
4) The Dubai event (15.5) was announced 09.03.2015. I haven’t seen any discussion or plans for the next event so far.
4) The Dubai event (15.5) was announced 09.03.2015. I haven’t seen any discussion or plans for the next event so far.
I heard back in June that next big event would be in September in the US with Ruji, but I haven’t heard anymore. Anyone else heard this?
I do not understand the benifits to Ruja & her Co-Horts to try & keep this scam going.
Why not just pull the plug now and keep all the money before they allow people to start cashing out?
Plus, it may avoid any regulators from looking into them and pressing charges. It looks like membership has peaked, so why not just pull the plug & enjoy their riches?
The Us sellers are trying to make a hype, claiming a lot of things. They really suck. Have you seen the Onecoin ATM video?
There is a video which is telling 100% true about what company Onecoin really is.
youtube.com/watch?v=pdn8KsnE8Bs&list=PLwAe1uM8jRyWiaUysGgDSoiRIug9N8oxz&index=9
Tommi Vuorinen… The Unofficial “president of Onecoin in Finland” went to Moscow promoting Onecoin 3 weeks ago. The audience was around 20 people.
He mentioned a few new things what future plans for Onecoin will be. 1,5h video is available on Youtube but I collected the most important things in 12 very short videos.
They help to understand how fake the company operations really are. (link=playlist)
Very interesting and surprising. The price of onecoin is… falling :O
sell/buy (+0.10)
15.6 1.150 / 1.250
13.7 1.450
28.7 1.417
29.7 1.447
30.7 1.440
xcoinx.com/all?currency=EUR
postimg.org/image/x8ievj6bl/
-They must have a reason to “cash out”?
-Maybe it has not peaked? A new split is ahead (kind of promotion)
-Have you seen recently any news from Onecoin? Plans for future? No weekly webinars anymore.
-It can be quiet for weeks, before people start noticing that cashing out is “frozen”. Several hundreds of new accounts daily is a couple of millions € income. They want avoid negative news as long as possible when promoting onecoin.
Most organizers will look for some type of “Exit strategy”, some type of plan that will prevent people from suing them / prevent authorities from prosecuting them.
Conligus merged with OneCoin. That’s a type of exit strategy.
TelexFree tried to use bankruptcy (Chapter 11) reorganizing as an exit strategy.
BLGM Better Living Global Marketing simply continued to operate long after it had collapsed. It stopped paying anything out in October 2013, but it continued with internal payouts for a very long time (it probably still operates in some countries).
TVI Express jumped from country to country for several years, using local organizers in each country. Exit strategy can be “move to the next country” and “don’t have any identifiable central management people can sue” (let authorities or investors focus on the local organizers rather than the main ones).
WGI World Games Inc. was sold to a group of top earners and reorganized under a new name when it collapsed.
The flag stats numbers for last 8 days, are very similar to the stat numbers before. Only China slowing down significantly. (150 less /day 700-750). Other countries no change. (375/day)
Us is total disaster, slowing more and more. (currently 30-35 a day)
People here in India are going ga ga over One coin and think it to be the next big think to produce millionaires in bulk.
Getting impressed when the people earning in One coin give a positive presentation but then I get confused when i refer the net.
Can anyone kindly give me the latest updates on the company. Thanks.
karan, just read the onecoin articles on this site and go through the comments. i don’t think you will find a bigger repository of onecoin info anywhere else.
onecoin is a farce, and wont go on much longer. don’t waste your money with it.
Thanks Anjali,
i did go through the content on the site quickly, but as i said earlier, I got confused as the people showing me the concept had their won justification for all my questions.
they also mentioned that Bitcoin people are spreading false rumors. But I think I should refrain myself in getting conned. Thanks again Anjali.
If you are a passive investor (no recruitment), you should stay away. Very few of the passive investors will make any money at all (in terms of withdrawals). But most of them will believe they’re making money.
Post #703 “S.G.” used almost seven months to break even as a passive investor, by selling onecoins through the internal exchange (max. 1.5% per day). And he started in January 2015. You should probably look at that post.
Most people talk about money they believe they’re making, i.e. they see “something” being transferred between back office accounts and assume it’s real money.
That “something” is similar to monopoly money = it only has a function inside a game, but it doesn’t have any function out in the real world. It will be worthless when the game ends, but you can potentially make a profit on it if you can sell it to others for real money.
1. “Cash Account” = no money
2. “Mandatory Account” = no money
3. “Onecoin Account” = no money
4. “OneToken Account” = no money
5. “CR Account” = no money
“Ewallet” = money has been made available for withdrawal to an external bank account (or other solutions of your choice). The ownership to the money hasn’t been transferred yet.
The reason why people believe monopoly money is worth something is because the brain doesn’t know how to see the difference. We’re not born with that knowledge, it’s a “learned knowledge”.
If it looks similar enough to real money and have some similar functions, the brain will simply accept it as “real” based on those similarities. And once the brain has accepted it as “real”, it will actively resist changing how it sees it.
I heard where the price of the packages have gone up or will be going up? Is this part of getting as much money as Ruja can before she takes off?
US is very quiet, anyone have news on US?
I am not a passive investor. I am in to networking but till now have dealt in health products only.
As you said that a passive investor should stay away but if I am networking (recruiting) then I am fooling people as I will earn on my recruits but they may lose their money.
So I understand that I will not be earning from the company but will be cheating my friends and relatives for a 10 % commission. And the rest of the money will be pocketed by the company.
I am not able to understand such calculations of misleading and cheating my fellow people.
Then you probably know exactly what i’m talking about. Onecoin is a Ponzi scheme similar to ZeekRewards. They have only replaced Penny Auction, VIP Points and Daily Profit Share with cryptocurrencies and OneTokens that can “grow in value”.
You can probably cheat them for much more than 10%, depending on the types of friends and relatives you have. 🙂
Karan, Don’t listen to Norway’s bullshit about accounts. He has lost money sometimes believing things and now all accounts he does not like are “no money”. He has not seen any Onecoin account for a second = only believing things.
You describe Onecoin 100% correctly, you can make money, but by scumming people.
So the goal if you joined Onecoin is to grow the “Cash Account”. You get 60% of bonuses in cash, and to grow it more you have to make and sell Onecoins. (takes 3 months, after that you can sell them slowly).
The money in your cash account you can cash out and within 7-10 days you will get them. The fee is very high, 15-20€.
The bitcoin thing is very funny. Their version of it is that Onecoin is better in every way that bitcoin.
Bitcoin has only one good thing, how the value grew. But Onecoin started at 1000x higher price than Bitcoin. It has the same probability to grow as bitcoin if it started at 100$ reaching 100.000$ 2013.
Why should people buy the Onecoin outside the network? (who are forced to buy it from the mandatory account). The profit goes to Ruja Ignatova who will be able all the time to sell the packages cheaper all the time.
The company has only one goal, tho sell as many packages as possible.
The value of the academy is close to zero, and the value of the coins at market value is close to zero. But they can sell nothing for as high as 12500€. Bravo!!!
I can tell you, people who recently bought several tycoon packages ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS.
a new package for 12,500€ is available. See Onecoins front page, the first package.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11onbvBkfBgdcTLOgxvy1JS-Y5O9mvOgqNecGVC3TX2A/edit#gid=0
quiet, because they can’t sell any packages? Super hype, many videos promoting, but the Usa numbers really suck!
It seems to me the point that Norway has been trying to make is that this company, like so many others does not have sufficient cash (or access to credit) at their bank or payment processor to pay on demand all current liabilities (which include the cash accounts.)
This imbalance is not apparent to individual account holders who very often watch their withdrawable funds increase at the same time the companies’ ability to actually fund company-wide withdrawals is dwindling.
It is only because not all investors withdraw (or are allowed to withdraw) simultaneously that this company-wide imbalance is not revealed and can be perpetuated.
Its confusing and unnecessary to say that there is “no money” in a “cash account.” Everyone understands this. We all know its an electronic ledger account…. but it is still linked in some way to something (perhaps a payment processor account) that permits access to whatever real money the company is willing and able to payout.
There is nothing revelatory in any of this. Every company on Earth must manage their cash flow, however, it is worth noting as Norway has, that a “cash account” balance can not be strictly equated with what can be withdrawn since it really depends on the company’s ability and willingness to fund the withdrawal.
An individual’s statement may show a cash account balance of thousands of dollars, but if new investment dries up and the company becomes unable or unwilling to pay withdrawal requests does the cash account have money in it?
Thanks Ben,
I feel that i don’t want to get rich by scumming people.
I will wait for some Genuine company who wants to Launch in India. I can take a lead and I am sure I can earn money and respect both.
I haven’t lost money in any scheme? 🙂
Why are you making up BS like that?
The brain cannot separate between real monetary transactions and transactions of “internal funds”. You’re not born with the knowledge for how to separate between them.
Someone must first tell you that there actually are differences, and then you must teach yourself how to detect those differences.
The brain certainly cannot detect any differences simply by looking at some internal accounts. It must first know what to look for to be able to detect it.
You can look at your “Cash Account” and ask the following questions:
* Can I transfer money from my Cash Account to an external bank account?
* Can I use my Cash Account to pay any external bills?
* Can I have a standard debit card or credit card connected to my Cash Account, and use it for shopping and similar purposes?
The answers to those questions should normally be “no”. That’s an indicator for that you’re not really looking at a bank account, and that it cannot be used as a bank account either. It simply doesn’t have the same functions.
OneCoin simply isn’t a bank, and your “Cash Account” simply isn’t a bank account. You have no rational reasons to believe it has the same functions as a bank account, e.g. that it holds any real monetary units.
You have some irrational reasons to believe it, but that’s all.
You can believe that some similarities will be enough to make it equal to a bank account, i.e. that it doesn’t need to have all functions in place to be able to hold money.
* You can believe the label “Cash Account” has importance, e.g. “they wouldn’t have called it Cash Account if it didn’t hold any money”.
* You can believe that the currency sign has importance, e.g. “they wouldn’t have used the Euro sign if it didn’t hold any money”.
* You can believe in the idea “since people indirectly can transfer funds to their ewallets, then it must be similar to a bank account”. That’s a difference rather than a similarity, but it won’t prevent people from believing in it.
Please stop making up any BS.
From where did you pull up that idea that I had lost money in a scheme, and that my ideas had been affected by it?
And please give a complete, logical explanation for why you believe the “Cash Account” holds money?
It can look like people can transfer funds directly from their “Cash Accounts” to their ewallets. It has a “up to 5-7 days delay” before the transaction can be completed.
It can look like people can transfer funds directly in the other direction too. That direction probably goes more smoothly, with no 5-7 days delay before the transaction can be completed.
The only explanation I can find is that “it looks real enough” based on some visual appearance?
The “no money” explanation is needed when people DON’T understand it.
It’s not needed if people do understand that a back office account doesn’t hold any money (“electronic funds”).
I clearly specified that none of those internal accounts actually hold any money. They are not bank accounts, and they don’t have the functions of a bank account. They have some similarities to bank accounts, but they are clearly different.
“None of those internal accounts” included the Cash Account. There’s no rational reason to see that account as something different.
The question about whether or not the “Cash Account” actually holds any money was first brought up by me in post #678, when I pointed out that people usually talk about internal payouts when they talk about “income” in Ponzi schemes.
They’re only partly talking about real monetary payouts, and some of them haven’t made any money at all.
It was some type of dialogue about it up until post #707, but it ended there. So it has been discussed, but the discussion doesn’t seem to have been concluded.
Ben decided that he would need warn people against some of my ideas in post #696.
And he did that in post #735.
Now it’s time for him to back it up with some rational explanations.
“Phantom payouts” is one of the core components of most Ponzi schemes. It was the core component of Madoff’s Ponzi scheme, i.e. investors accepted the yearly ROI as “real”, even if it only was displayed in a financial statement and no money actually had been transferred.
It has been a core component in almost every Ponzi scheme reviewed here, but some have been based on false promises rather than false payouts.
Bank accounts don’t hold “actual” money any more than a One Coin’s cash account does. If you are looking for “actual” fiat money go look in your change drawer or perhaps in a bank vault.
You are making distinctions where there are none.
In point of fact, nobody except perhaps One Coin’s CFO can tell us if One Coin has enough funds on deposit at a payment processor (or bank) to cover its current liabilities.
You certainly can’t, so pronouncing that there is “no money” in Ben’s cash account is pure fussiness providing the cash account is linked to a funded payment processor account with a sub-account in Ben’s name.
On a practical level if a One Coin withdrawal request is honored then it is not unreasonable to say there was money “in” the cash account even if payment actually comes from a payment processor.
Yes there is, providing Ben’s cash account is linked to a funded sub-account at a payment processor. This is where illusion meets reality because if there is no funds at the payment processor the scheme unravels.
They hold credits and debits of “money equivalents” = you can use a bank account directly to pay bills / withdraw as cash from an ATM / pay for goods or services (if you have a credit card or debit card connected to the account).
That’s a major difference from OneCoin’s “Cash Account”. People cannot have a debit card connected to that account. They cannot transfer funds directly from that account to any external bank accounts. They cannot use it to pay bills (as in “online banking service”). They cannot write valid checks drawn on that account.
Fiat money is mostly about credit, but most people will actually see it as money. And my post was written for “most people”, I didn’t try to hold a lecture for macro economists.
To avoid the thread from derailing into a macro economical discussion, e.g. “the difference between credit and currency”, I prefer to link to two sources.
1. “How the economic machine work” by Ray Dalio, a 31 minute video.
youtube.com/watch?v=PHe0bXAIuk0
2. What Ray Dalio Gets Wrong”, a Bloomberg article.
bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-11-12/what-billionaire-ray-dalio-gets-wrong-about-money
I have only looked briefly at that last source, and I can’t verify that he has interpreted it correctly. I have no such reservations to the first one, Ray Dalio has identified most of the relevant aspects for a “simple explanation”.
Then we can ask Ben about it?
“Is your Cash Account linked to a funded sub-account at a payment processor?”
We won’t need to analyse it in detail, we can simply ask Ben about it. But you will need to tell him how he can identify whether it is linked to a “funded sub-account”
The main reasons for why I cannot verify that Bloomberg article are:
1. He’s referring to a different source, to a 210 pages pdf rather than to the video.
2. He’s referring to his own interpretation more than to the source itself. The video used “printing of money” in a different context than him.
I linked to that other source to show that not everyone will agree to each and every detail in that video. People can have valid points about “it doesn’t really work that way”.
True. You have illustrated the difference between a One Coin Cash Account and a bank account and I agree that there is no money in a cash account (it is a ledger account… not a bank…. and not a safety deposit box.)
However:
Since I have a cash account at Goldman Sachs and understand that Goldman Sachs deposits its account holder funds in a trust account at Mellon Bank I should be quite excited if Goldman Sachs informed me that I have no money in my cash account, which is to say that most of us moderns realize that financial intermediation is the norm not the exception.
Then there’s no need to specifically ask Ben about whether his Cash Account is linked to a funded sub-account at a payment processor or a bank.
If he has information like that, he can add it himself.
That’s right. Instead I am going to go down to my bank and ask to see the money in my checking account.
So Mr Norway wants everything linked to IMF or Janet Yellen.
So far I’ve seen tens of cashing out from the “cash account” 150€ to 5000€. So how the hell did they success withdraw money from “no money account”???? So I have no more comments about this ridiculous thing.
If I had enough money in my cashing account, I would withdraw it as fast as possible. But now I have only 30€. I think I’ll send the money to my downline…. (upline is only Juha and he said he has made 10.000.000€ this year already)
One thing I have to find out is if there are any charges/fees for sending money in your own network.
When people buy packages, the money is going to an Onecoin account, and then 55% of the money are reserved for bonus payments.
They have enough money to pay out the bonuses, but they will not have enough to pay out money from the Onecoin Exchange when enough people sell onecoins.
That’s way they force people to wait 80 days and then 1,5% daily limit when selling onecoins… (and a cap 10-30-50€)
I have described how the economy in Onecoin is working, and what will happen in September.(split, more onecoins ready for sell). See my earlier posts here or in my blog:
benzmith.tumblr.com/
There you can download also the content from The Onecoin Ponzi scam. (it was removed due to some threats). I recommend also downloading levels 1-5 for free. 🙂
and mrNorway, I can accept “no safe” money account, but “no money” account was definitely too harsh 🙂
I don’t know, but I only believed (for a while) that you did lost some money. 😉
It is the same like you “believe” that the cash account is “NO MONEY”. But many thousands of people have got their money from the cash account so “NO MONEY” account do not make sense.
I have not seen any complain for 6 months. It will be eventually no money account soon, but we can only speculate when. But we are both 100% sure that it will be no money account in the future.
Even if you truly believed it, you can’t try to include that as some type of “proof”. It will be clearly misleading and dishonest. You will need to check the facts first, and then you will need to include those facts in your explanation.
Karan deserves a correction. Karan was the one you tried to mislead. You didn’t mislead me.
I have checked that same issue in several programs, and it has been verified directly or indirectly by SEC, courts, accountants and others. None of your information indicate that OneCoin’s internal accounts are any different.
I can prove that “money” in an internal account can be created out of thin air, e.g. by linking to an MLM software demo.
MLM DEMO (both back office demo and admin demo)
wtksoftware.com/demo
Screenshot of imaginary transactions
bildr.no/view/YUZnZzdt
Transaction #51 in that screenshot is called “Test Credit” = the admin added $1,000 to every account in the demo to make the earnings look nicer.
All the other transactions are fake too. All the users are fake. So even if you can see something with your own eyes it can still be fake
The first screenshot showed the back office transactions from the users perspective.
Then I tried the admin demo and added $500 to the users ewallet OR internal account (I’m not sure which one) as “Gift from management”, transaction #1 in the screenshot.
bildr.no/view/UlNyMTRw
So I have proved that I can create money out of thin air, if people believe “numbers on a screen” is equal to money.
“Gift from management” was clearly my idea, I gave it a description that could separate it from normal transactions.
How do you know this? Someone tell you? Is it written in the one coin ‘contract’?
You don’t need an MLM software demo to do that. I can open Microsoft Excel and start entering transactions +/- that will populate thousands of individual pages (each with a different “client” name. This is well understood.
The point is whether the statement that an investor receives is truthful and accurate or fraudulent. You have assumed that Ben’s statement is completely fraudulent, i.e., “no money” even though we’re told that other investors are requesting withdrawals and receiving real world payments.
Do you see the disconnect?
The important factor in Ponzi schemes is to clearly separate between real monetary transactions between bank accounts and “other transactions” internally in the system.
That’s my primary objection. You don’t clearly separate between internal transactions and external ones.
THE MLM SOFTWARE DEMO
The method I used there was found under “Tools” in the admin demo. I manually transferred $500 to James’ account as a “Gift from management”. I actually tried to transfer it directly to his ewallet, but I’m not sure that it ended up there. It ended up “somewhere” in James’ accounts.
Here’s the Tool I used = “Credit funds to Distributor eWallet”:
bildr.no/view/R2MvbTFl
Here’s how ordinary withdrawal request may look like to the administrator:
bildr.no/view/S3JTRlVt
The MLM software there is relatively inexpensive, but I can easily add fake or real users manually, and I can perform internal transactions in many directions without having to bring in any money. Money from users can end up in my bank account, while THEY can get a Cash Account balance created from thin air.
So if people believe too strongly in what they can SEE with their own eyes, then I could easily have used a software like that to cheat them.
The question remains, is Ben looking at false numbers or not.
Ben?
There is a premium package now, and a 6th educational oneacademy you get? Was it Ben that proved the oneacademy was plagiarized?
I heard Ruju was coming to US in Sept., but now Oct? Can someone confirm this? Has anyone found out if she is registered with the SEC?
That statement is fraudulent. There’s no monetary value stored in that account. All the monetary value is stored in the merchant account.
Transactions of money OUT from the system will be limited by payments IN from new investors + “reserves”.
Zeek had $225 million stored as “reserves” in bank accounts. None of it was stored as “Cash Available”. That account simply didn’t hold any money.
EVERY Ponzi scheme we have reviewed here have paid money out. It doesn’t prove anything, so it doesn’t make any sense looking at factors like that.
Charles Ponzi paid out money too. He used the money coming in from new investors to pay a false “profit” to the old ones. That’s the most typical element of a Ponzi scheme, “rob Peter to pay Paul”.
In ZeekRewards, appr. 80,000 out of 880,000 investors managed to withdraw more money than they had invested. So withdrawals are very common in Ponzi schemes.
Everyone believed they were making money, but the majority only received “Cash Available” (not real money).
An account either holds money or it doesn’t. The account won’t suddenly change from “money account” to “non-money account”.
If an account does change like that it will be because its true nature has been revealed = “it didn’t really hold any money”. It means you will need to correct how you initially saw it.
Since I already have seen that many times before, I can make those corrections immediately. I won’t need to WAIT till until the scheme stops paying anything out.
So tell me…MR Norway how the hell people did receive money from NO MONEY ACCOUNT. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE MAKING MONEY IN ONECOIN. Does Ruja ring your bell at home and gives you the money in your hand?
I said it once, I do it again. Mr Norway is sick when he is wrong, he will try to “fix” it by Demo accounts, claiming believing and so on just to make people believe he was not wrong.
He has put 100++ hours on this ridiculous thing investigating it. Just stop talking to him about it, because it is crap in this thread. People should read more important things about facts than MrNorways crying stories.
———————————————————–
And 55% to bonuses is only a claim done by Juha Parhiala and Sebastian Greenwood (they created the bonus system). I don’t know however how they are calculating, especially if the mandatory account is included or not??? (40% of the bonuses go to mandatory account ->air money)
So it could be 35%-70% going to the bonuses… but 300.000 accounts with an average 600€ it’s still a lot of money.
(my own calculations, do I have to say it all the time that we can’t see any real numbers from Onecoin???)
I said it once, The network is offering so high bonuses, it’s heaven for the pro marketers. They sell nothing for 100-12500€….But the real number to the bonuses??
You have to simulate it, as Juha and Seb simulated it in 2014 too.
You are so stupid, or you have some serious problems in your head. A bank can fail too, a country can fail, so
IF YOU THINK AS MR NORWAY=EVERY ACCOUNT ON EARTH IS NO MONEY ACCOUNT. MONEY=NO MONEY.
I will no more read MrNorways posts. Why? because it’s crap. Is it possible to block anyone’s posts? An admin should remove his posts from this thread. It’s hours of bullshit hardly contributing to this thread, the real facts about Onecoin helping people understanding how this company is. (not forcing people to think that all about Onecoin is evil like Mr Norway does)
Go away make a thread somewhere else. By posting your crap here, you make people miss the real facts, things that otherwise they would have read.
So people…Just jump over MR-Norways posts…Don’t lose your time on what he is believing.
The ewallet is a “sub-account” to OneCoin’s merchant account at the payment processor.
OneCoin will only perform an internal transaction between merchant account and sub-account when you request a withdrawal. It won’t move any money back and forth between different accounts.
The merchant account is where all monetary transactions are performed.
* payment IN from new investors, from external bank accounts
* payment OUT to old investors, to external bank accounts
* internal transactions between merchant and client, no movement of money between different accounts. OneCoin will simply make money available for withdrawal in your ewallet, but it will not move any money.
MLM SOFTWARE
I could easily perform a “payout”, a $500 “Gift from management”, without moving any money. It ended up in user “James” internal ewallet, similar to your “Cash Account”
admin transaction log – bildr.no/view/ellIOEwx
James’ internal ewallet balance – bildr.no/view/bU1keXBO
But since that demo only is a demo, I didn’t manage to perform any real monetary payouts to an external ewallet. I only got a message. 🙂
I have showed how the internal system works by showing screenshots.
* I created a $500 “Gift from management” and sent it to a user’s “Cash Account” without any transaction of money. The different label isn’t really important, it doesn’t really matter what the internal account is called.
* The $500 amount looked just like real money in the user’s account, his balance was increased by $500.
So I have actually proved that internal accounts don’t really hold any money in standard MLM software. I have showed how a transaction will look like, both to the admin and to the user, after the transaction has been performed. I also showed the “Tools” I used to perform transactions like that.
You should normally accept proofs when people show them to you and offer you to test it yourself.
So I will only need to find an understandable description for “how merchant funded eWallets work”, to show the internal transactions between merchant and client.
only 130 views? no people interested in Onecoin anymore?
youtube.com/watch?v=uuzwmjJ9ctQ
By the way. The audition for the Onecoin was said to be done at a monthly basis. This is scum, isn’t it?
We could email the audition company why we haven’t seen anymore audits. Does Ruja not pay for the nonsense anymore?
You have actually asked for some types of proofs yourself, and I have offered some.
The question was about whether the internal “Cash Account” actually did hold any money. You believe that it DOES hold money, but that it eventually will change (but you didn’t explain the logical reasoning for how an account suddenly can change).
You have realized that OneCoin isn’t a bank and that back office accounts are not really bank accounts, but you still believe that they can hold money and that they can be used to perform real monetary transactions to an external ewallet account.
You believe that money will be “moved” from the “Cash Account” to the external eWallet account, as in “money goes out from the Cash Account and into the eWallet account”
You believe that the only way to understand how it really works will be to see it personally, see how the transactions are being performed from a user perspective, all the way from payout of commissions and bonuses via withdrawal request and eWallets to when the money actually ends up in the hands of the user.
Your main “proof” is that people actually can withdraw money from their Cash Accounts. You have seen that with your own eyes and know that it works.
I have pointed out quite different solutions, e.g. I have separated between internal transactions and external ones, “how it really works rather than how a user sees it”.
I have pointed out that there actually are differences between internal accounts and real bank accounts, e.g. you can’t use the internal account directly to pay for anything out in the real world like you can with a bank account.
I have showed that “money” in internal accounts easily can be created out of thin air. It will look just like real money, but it won’t require any monetary transactions. So I have proved that we easily can be fooled by our own eyes.
To do that, I needed to have access to both the admin side of the software and the user side of it, so I used a software demo from a real MLM software for that purpose. It proved that the internal account there didn’t really hold any money.
I have currently failed to find clear descriptions for how eWallet accounts actually work (e.g. the internal transactions). The court document I linked to in post #700 only showed how a user misinterpreted his own NxPay account.
My checking account is but one sub-account administered by a payment processor called a bank. Providing that there is money allocated to my account by the bank there is nothing incorrect in me saying that I have money in my checking account.
If I write a check and its honored then there was obviously money “in my checking account.” By the same token if One Coin honors Ben’s request for his funds then there was money in his cash account.
Can the cash account balance be manipulated and falsified? Absolutley. Can the merchant account be depleted before Ben can withdraw. Absolutely.
Does your insistence that there is never any money in a cash account fly in the face of common understanding and general usage? Yes.
Your understanding that a cash account holds no actual money is of course correct, but it is equally correct (if only by commonly understood usage,) to say one /has had money in their cash account if a request for a withdrawal is/was honored.
Your insistence to the contrary has become nothing short of comical.
@Ben
I have one question about that one = How does an account suddenly change from “money account” to “no money account”?
If you HAVE money in it, then you should normally be able to perform transactions right up until the account is empty / all money has been transferred out from that account.
The account itself shouldn’t suddenly change.
You probably mean that the money it contains will change from “real money” to “no money”. But that doesn’t make any sense either.
I wasn’t talking about “common understanding” there, but about how it actually works. Ponzi schemes use “common ideas” to trick people, e.g. people will usually believe what they can see with their own eyes.
The brain can’t detect the difference between those $500 “Gift from management” I created out of thin air in the MLM demo and real money in a bank account. It may accept both as real money.
If I had added a real payout to it then most people would have been convinced that it was a real transaction of money right from the start. They would have accepted my “internal transaction” too, even if it wasn’t real.
The transaction looked like this to the user:
bildr.no/view/bU1keXBO
If I had bothered to set up a merchant account, the user would have been able to withdraw it to an external ewallet. So it would have worked exactly like OneCoin’s Cash Account.
Your checking account is most likely not a “sub-account”, but a fully working bank account.
Your bank is most likely not a “payment processor”, but a fully working bank.
A bank usually have many more functions than a payment processor (money transmitter, payment gateway). They have different types of licenses (“financial service licenses”), e.g. the bank can accept deposits and create credit while the payment processor only can handle transactions via a bank.
So far 100% of people cashing out got money from NoMoney account. How the hell is it possible??
I should get tel nr to every one of them and send it to Mr Norway. He would have a hell of a lot explaining to those people 😉 What they actually received was No money because the Onecoin cash account holds no money.
postimg.org/image/le7nf9ich
HAHA VILKEN JÄVLA TOMTE HAHA, man har hört många historier om dumma norrmän, men denna måste vara ju den dummaste av alla.
I’m out from this discussion.
You have a lot to learn. Yes its a “fully working bank account,” but its also a sub-account under the bank’s liabilities, which is to say its money that they owe me.
Its not different from an investor cash account which is a liability account within the merchant account held by a payment processor.
Your just floundering around now. Its over.
Ha. Your remark is right on “the money.”
That description wasn’t correct. Payment processors usually don’t have any financial service licenses themselves, they usually operate under the license of an “acquirer”. The “acuirer” usually have a limited financial service license.
BIG NEWS. ONECOIN is manipulating the flag numbers. New stats coming soon!!!!!!
Post 761
There is a premium package now, and a 6th educational oneacademy you get with it? Was it Ben that proved the oneacademy was plagiarized?
I heard back in June, that Ruju was coming to US in Sept., but now Oct? Can someone confirm this? Has anyone found out if she is registered with the SEC?
The money can have been in the merchant account all the time. I described the merchant account as a bank account, and the ewallets are sub-accounts to that bank account.
1. Money comes IN from investors to the bank account, and the money stays there in that bank account.
– – – –
2. The investors will receive “internal funds” as commissions, bonuses, payment from sale of onecoins, etc. to their “Cash Accounts”
3. If people want to reinvest payouts, simply allow them to pay with the “internal funds”. It will make the internal funds look more similar to real money if people actually can use it to pay for membership packages or Gift Codes.
– – – –
4. If people want to withdraw money to external accounts, simply pay money OUT from the funds that already are stored in the merchant account.
There’s no need to transfer money back and forth between the merchant account and some internal accounts.
OneCoin can easily have a system with internal, non-monetary transactions, just like the MLM software demo had. It won’t prevent OneCoin from paying anything OUT via the eWallet system.
I’m relatively relaxed about it.
But it actually means that you too may have something to explain to people, “to live up to your own ethical standard”.
You can’t expect me to live up to it if you don’t do it yourself. That idea would have been completely meaningless.
I will of course blame you. 🙂
“Ben didn’t respond to questions about how accounts suddenly could change from ‘money accounts’ to ‘no money accounts’ after some time”. 🙂
I’m just kidding. I made my initial statements about “no money” long before that question, so “blame the other party” wouldn’t have worked properly.
I have based my statements primarily on existing knowledge about how internal accounts actually work, so I can’t look for someone to blame.
This site is being called out by ken labine.
From what I’ve seen from Labine, he continuously fails to address OneCoin paying existing investors with newly invested funds.
Instead, OneCoin isn’t a Ponzi scheme because BehindMLM is a blog with ads and alot of our commenters have been around for years.
Off the bat you can’t really take someone who thought investing in the FiveDollarFunnel Ponzi cycler prior to OneCoin was a good idea too seriously. I mean right there, that pretty much explains what attracted Labine to OneCoin in the first place.
I’ve also seen him gloss over articles on TelexFree and Zeek Rewards when he “calls out” BehindMLM in his videos. Lots of “yeah I don’t anything aboot that” and “umm, ahh I have no idea what that’s aboot”.
But uh yeah, clearly someone who’s educated in the MLM Ponzi arena.
No doubt regulators investigating OneCoin will also ignore the facts, analysis and flow of money within the scheme too.
Oh and for the record I haven’t wasted any of my time engaging with Labine on any level, despite what he might claim. I’ve got a blog to run.
I have however marked one or two comments bearing his name for offtopic spam, purely because they failed to discuss why paying existing investors with newly invested funds didn’t make OneCoin a Ponzi scheme.
Longtime readers will quickly recognise Labine for the naive “numbers on a screen, I’m rich!” cheerleader that he is. Every Ponzi scheme has its Rodney Blackburns, Gerry Nehras, Carlos Costas, Robert Craddocks etc.
And you all know how their stories end…
LOL. so much crap here, I’ve missed your post!
It was actually Petteri Jarvinen (a known IT blogger in Finland) who found it first after I sent him the Pdfs of levels 1-3.
pjarvinen.blogspot.fi/2015/05/onecoin-koulutusmateriaali-kopioitu.html?
After it I found more as others found more. The free content provided for Free were from 20s-30s.
————————————————————–
The Level 6 is not included yet. I think they will (if anyone buys it) will get the pdf by e-mail.
postimg.org/image/ulhf1x6ud/
————————————————————–
Ruja in USA? LOL for what? 30 new accounts daily? Ruja will visit sooner Antarctic than USA 🙂
Has Ruja visited US earlier? There is only one picture showing her in USA. but IS IT REAL?
postimg.org/gallery/2cb0k2qq8/
————————————————————–
NEW MANIPULATION OF NUMBERS!!
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1icDQWgigr6jS1wFeXjkENjAA_iLVnkODkHWqXBnjffA/edit#gid=1254663653
So what the hell happened last 6 days?
– FROM 363.268 TO 615.075 MEMBERS?? REALLY??
– They do not want people to see the real numbers…
– Because the growth of onecoin network has been slowing down steadly for weeks
– 18.000 members in Italy? So fake! Onecoin had 0 growth for weeks in Italy
– The ticker slowed down to 1000/day
– China only +50K, but others 104K to 305K +201K new users!!
See how people react to this “increase” So sick! 🙂
youtu.be/ngEIgtpj8Fo?t=1093
What you call “internal non monetary transactions” are almost certainly credits and debits in an accounting program capable of tracking transactions in and out, generate investor cash account balances and statements, calculate funds available and handle withdrawal requests.
Generally modules are available that can extend the base program’s capabilities. It would be highly unusual if such a program was not integrated with a merchant account cash management program.
However, it is also true that the administrator can make entries at his own discretion and display as little or as much information to the investors as he/she desires.
Obviously no one but the processor and management will know the true cash position of the merchant account.
Gotta love the use of China as the number one source of investors.
So easy to fudge the numbers when using China as a looming group of investors. Nobody has seen or knows anything about these investors, they have no presence on the internet and any questions will likely be met with “oh but you don’t speak Chinese, they are real though, we swear!”
Alexa currently doesn’t even rate China as the the top 5 sources of traffic to OneCoin’s website. You’ve got Russia (23%), Ukraine (6.3%), India (6.1%), Sweden (5.1%) and Brazil (5.1%).
Russia, India and Brazil? Nevermind their status as MLM Ponzi fraud hotbeds, let’s all instead pretend persons unknown from China are leading the way in OneCoin investment…
Good analysis.
Who is that guy in the photo with her, one of the Steinkellers?
Some news they published for the members:
Is it just me or is there nothing about non-affiliates using OneCoin in that update?
All I can see is blabber about investors trading their OneCoin Ponzi points with other investors, how everybody who is “serious” about OneCoin needs to dump another 12,500 EUR into the scheme and that everybody ROI withdrawals are quite restricted (prolong the inevitable collapse).
Correct. But you can’t draw any conclusions from that alone?
The $500 “Gift from management” I created from thin air was of the same type, but real monetary transactions will be registered in exactly the same way. So you can’t use it as basis for a conclusion.
TelexFree managed to mix both “internal funds” and real monetary transactions in the same financial report, but it had to separate between those two types.
So both types can be registered by an accounting program, but they will need to be separated from each other. Only the real one will generate any real revenue.
A friend of mine knows someone who joined OneCoin at the tycoon level. She is recruiting and has made money, 10% off of each package they purchase, and her coins are in mining and has a couple months to go before getting anything out of it.
Her only money made is from recruiting. Sounds like that is the case with others while they wait for the other to happen, which may not happen, just the hope of it happening.
It is obvious many people are going to get burned in the end. Where is the SEC?!
It was 100% certain to me that some time before “collapse” they will find new “promotions” of making money.
What is next? 50.000€ packages? buy 5 packages you’ll get one for free? For me this is a kind of proof that the Onecoin is almost dead. New investors money has to come from somewhere, and A LOT OF IT.
The biggest problem is, that Dr Ruja will ALWAYS have the cheapest Onecoins to provide on the market. New packages, splits, promotions, new bonuses. So people who want onecoins, will always choose to buy packages before those on the exchange.
The biggest problem that Ruja is trying hard to cover is: Not a single buyer outside network. Do you now anybody who would buy Onecoins for real currency????
One statement from Onecoin that makes people think the will be reach:
If so, that would mean 1.000.000 more sellers. No new buyers. But the members think it will make theirs coins more valuable. But they don’t buy theirs coins, they create new coins ->inflation
Another statement:
Only 15% of Onecoin is created, but Bitcoins already 60%.
And maybe 0,1% of Onecoins can be sold right now…So it’s very easy for us, but for the members?? 1.5 to 3 is like nothing, incredibly easy.
OneCoin just came to my attention, apparently they are selling packages that include a nonexistent cryptocurrency with no functioning blockchain, a full premine (a huge red flag scam no-no in this business), and no exchanges that host it.
They are also related to Aurum, and preliminary Kroll checks indicate they may share the same Dubai banking connections.
My sources tell me that (possibly clueless) OneCoin “affiliates” are collecting cash and money orders from recruits and in numerous cases, carrying these across state lines to deposit in foreign bank accounts to set up new users.
A lot of sloppy moves here, OneCoin people. This high yield investment and pyramid scam is going to on several US law enforcement radar screens tomorrow morning.
One week ago Sebastian announced the special “state of the nations” would happen 6.8. He would only cover the new leadership program. BUT, intstead he talked about the new package, how good it is, all should buy this and so on.
He announced also special promotions. Tyccon? writing this in a hurry??
postimg.org/image/p49v6lstd/
youtu.be/ipEUz-Opy7s?t=515
They probably have the right type of software. So it probably does exist as an “internal cryptocurrency, to be traded inside a closed system”.
He’s probably talking about the “Gift Codes”, but most of the money there will end up in the pockets of individual members.
Affiliates can use internal funds to buy Gift Codes (for membership packages). They can then sell those Gift Codes to new members they have recruited and receive cash.
Some affiliates may have borrowed internal funds from people in upline to pay for those Gift Codes. They will probably pay back in cash. That’s probably the “numerous cases” he was talking about.
That didn’t surprise me. 🙂
I can, and I have. In an undertaking of this size and scope the cash accounts must be integrated into the company’s accounting program.
Data must be shared between it and the payment processor and merchant account. if it were otherwise there would be no way for the company/payment processor to determine and control how much, when, and to whom a real world payment is made.
No admin can possibly manually compute and direct withdrawal requests from tens thousands of investors. The accounting must be integrated and automated .
This in no way implies that the data can not be manipulated and controlled.
So, your conception that the cash account exists independently and disconnected from the payment processor/merchant account and integrated accounting system can not be true.
It might be possible if there were only a few hundred accounts to track, but not when there are tens of thousands over multiple countries. Comprehensive control and feedback loops must be put into operation.
You may rightfully tell anyone that the cash balance can be manipulated, but insisting that it has no connection to the cash distribution process is incorrect.
@Hoss
Check your own logical reasoning. I also mentioned TelexFree in the same post. And we already know that OneCoin isn’t accounted, the audit report was not based on bookkeeping accounts.
The audit report, 4:30 into the video.
youtu.be/gGt9uBuHu6w?t=4m30s
Huh?
Huh?
It was claimed there was an audit of the blockchain. This has nothing to do with a company wide audit of its accounting practices.
Your way off base.
Then we can apply exactly the same logic to ZeekRewards, and see how it works there?
ZeekRewards had “Cash Available” account of the same type as “Cash Account”. Then the “Cash Available” must also have been connected to a payment processor account?
It means the Receiver can extract more money from those “Cash Available” accounts, since the money will be located in some payment processor account? 🙂
All your arguments can be applied to TelexFree, ZeekRewards, BLGM and any other Ponzi scheme we have reviewed here. So you will need to make some corrections.
The new (last) promotions are a kind of proof that it will soon be over. The company is doing nothing for the Onecoin to be more valuable outside the network. The only thing they carry about is to make their pocket as full of (real) money as possible. The last squeeze? But how it will end? I have 3 scenarios.
———————————————————
SCENARIO 1:”The cut off” – Conligus death 2.0
The cash account, becomes “no cash account”. People stop getting money from Onecoin Network. They will find a reason that something went wrong. This will mean more difficulties with the law later.
———————————————————
SCENARIO 2:”Black exchange week”-The price of Onecoin collapses.
The company let the real value reveal, “correct” itself. The site, everything will continue to working. People will still get bonuses, and make withdrawals from the Cash account. But in SEP-OCT will more onecoins fluid the market.
More onecoins will be sold, Ruja won’t defend the value anymore.
It means slow death, people will stop buying packages. They will have a lot of Onecoins. They will be forced to buy packages.
Now you can buy a 100€ package for 200 Onecoins. But that will be cut off, or they will be using the new collapsed market value. (10.000? onecoins for a 100€ package?) People will get the last bonuses from those transactions.
Dr Ruja will claim nothing happened. The market just surprised her, and she apparently miscalculated a little. But she was saying the risks are high when the returns are high.
She sold education, people got education and that’s it.
———————————————————
SCENARIO 3: Everyone will get rich. Dr Ruja will become the most powerful business woman on earth.
Onecoin will reach 10-100€ in 3 years and everyone who joined the onecoin will proudly use their One Payment Mastercard every day. Dr Ruja will be nominated for the Economy Noble Price 2017.
————————————————————
So what do you think? Which scenario is most possible to happen? I feel it will be Scenario 2 with some “cut offs”.
But you are more experienced with MLM. So I really want to hear your opinions.
leaving aside all your Technical arguments, i think any money, credits, debits in your bank account are owned by you. the bank is merely a facilitator. you request for the money and you get it.
on the other hand, any purported money, credit, debit, in a ‘cash account’ of Any ponzi, is not owned by you. the ponzi promoters are not merely facilitators, but the Deciders of how much money will get paid to you. there are rules, limitations, and day by day calculations of how much money you can encash, depending on how much money the promoters have collected.
saying a cash account in a ponzi scheme holds Real Cash just like a bank account is a bit imaginative.
saying that a cash account in a ponzi scheme is connected to Real System of payout is correct, otherwise how will payouts happen?
it’s like saying onecoin may have some real blockchain operation going on, but that doesn’t make the coin any less a valueless ponzi product, does it.
I have no idea of which ideas you have about bookkeeping, but it should normally “keep a record of events that will affect the company’s financial statements”.
That may include non-monetary transactions too, e.g. we can’t make statements like “bookkeeping can only handle real monetary transactions”, concluding that a company can’t keep records of loyalty programs and other non-monetary transactions.
So there is something wrong with your idea there. It doesn’t reflect the reality, the idea seems to be based on theory rather than on how things really work.
TelexFree had two types of records.
1. One showing real monetary transactions between bank accounts.
2. One showing internal transactions between internal accounts.
TelexFree presented both records to various government agencies. It doesn’t mean that those internal transactions were real monetary transactions, it only means they were relevant for some reason for the financial reports.
Scenario 1 will happen sooner or later = people will be unable to withdraw money from the Cash Account.
Before that, you will see many different attempts to reduce withdrawals / stimulate reinvestments / stimulate recruitment of new investors.
You will also see “escalating trouble”, e.g. “hacking”, “payment processor trouble”, any other excuses for why they can’t pay out money as normal. It may only affect a few countries first, “some unimportant countries” where they don’t make any money anyway.
JUHA is working hard…. SO SICK!!!!!!!!!!
Elite trader is coming… a 100.000€ package.
postimg.org/image/p4ksg5fw1/
Company funds on deposit with the payment processor may not be sufficient to pay all outstanding liabilities. If the payment processor’s merchant account is in fact empty it no longer matters what the investors’ “cash available” accounts say as they have become in essence worthless IOUs.
That’s right. Basic accounting is the same everywhere.
Right. “From the cash account,” or via the cash account. Whichever way you need to think of it.
Yes they probably did since both 1 and 2 are important to understand the company and where the money went.
But that theory will reflect my description more than your own.
There’s no rational explanation in support of the theory that money in an account can be “converted” to IOU immediately after a shutdown. The money in the account must have been in place all the time.
In my explanation, money coming in from the investors would stay in the merchant account all the time (except for the fact that Zeek received mostly Cashier’s Checks). Zeek could then use money coming in from new investors to pay the old ones each week (withdrawals).
Only withdrawals counted as “net winnings”. The money people had received to “Cash Available” didn’t count as real monetary payouts.
And it supports my explanation that payouts to internal accounts typically are about non-monetary payouts. They only pretend to be real monetary payouts.
The real transaction of money will first happen when people withdraw money to eWallets (internal transaction), and when they withdraw money from eWallets to external accounts.
It is not a theory. It is basic accounting and I did not say anything was “converted” to an IOU at shutdown.
An investor’s cash account, which shows cash available for withdrawal, is in accounting terms, an asset of the investor (a receivable).
On the other side of the ledger it is entered as a liability of the company (an account payable) i.e., something owed.
There are always two sides to every transaction in modern double entry accounting. The investor’s account receivable (+) corresponds to the company’s account payable (-)
The investor’s account receivable pre-exists shutdown. It becomes a bad debt, or a write off, or more familiarly a worthless IOU when it becomes clear that the company can not pay its liabilities
Your nomenclature confuses the issue because when you talk about payouts, you fail to discriminate between what are actually credits to the investor’s account receivable versus real world cash payments to the investor from the companies’ merchant account.
There are much better ways of explaining what you are trying to say.
The idea that there are internal and external transactions is not really accurate since everything is tied together, (unless they are running two sets of books,) but the investors only see what they are allowed to see.
You tend to call what the investor’s see, internal, but that is not really the case. Double entry accounting ensures that your so called internal entries have corresponding entries elsewhere in the companies’ books.
For every plus there is a minus somewhere though people try any number of tricks to obscure this simple accounting principle.
That’s the whole point. Payouts don’t happen before people actually withdraw money from the eWallet accounts to external bank accounts.
There’s no identifiable monetary transactions internally in the system. All transactions there are bookkeeping transactions = no movement of money between bank accounts.
That’s how Zeek worked.
* People received Daily Profit Share, commissions and bonuses to an internal “Cash Available” account. They could then reinvest it or withdraw it as cash (one withdrawal per week, up to 14 days delay).
* If people decided to withdraw money from “Cash Available”, then the management made money available in the eWallet.
* Some affiliates decided to store money in the eWallet account, e.g. David Sorrells had stored more than $350,000 in his NxPay account when the merchant account was frozen by SEC.
* If people decided to withdraw money from the eWallet, then Zeek simply used the money coming in from new investors to support the payouts.
It worked as long as Zeek had enough money coming in from new investors to support real monetary payouts to the old ones. It started to get payment problems 3 weeks before the shutdown, when it only had $2 million in “profit” (new money coming in $162 million, money withdrawn $160 million).
Correct. It’s money owed, it’s not cash stored in an account.
The Cash Account is an IOU right from the start. It doesn’t contain any cash stored in a bank account.
An IOU is an uncompleted transaction of money.
The first completed transaction will happen when peple withdraw money from the eWallet account. That’s the first point where the company will need to bring in any real money and transfer it to an external bank account.
There’s a weakness in your theory there, in that you’re using theory rather than looking at the realities.
A court will not recognize it as “money owed”, “liabilities”, “assets”, “account payable”. If it had done that, the net winners in ZeekRewards would legally have owned their net winnings. The net winners would have become creditors, they too.
I have clearly identified OneCoin as a Ponzi/pyramid hybrid, i.e. I looked at the realities rather than accounting theories. So my description was correct enough from that perspective.
I have used many different descriptions, e.g. I compared it to monopoly money, “a type of money that only works internally in a game, but has no value out in the real world”.
One reason for using the term “internal funds” is because it will cover all the different types (Cash Account, Mandatory account, Onecoin account, Token account, CR Account, transactions on the internal exchange, all the different commissions and bonuses, etc.).
None of them will require any monetary transaction.
But those transactions can be of the same type too. They don’t need to involve any movement of money.
People can easily use the Cash Account to purchase a Tycoon package for €5,000 in monopoly money. That transaction will generate 10% commission to the sponsor in monopoly money, 60% goes to Cash Account (€300) and 40% goes to Mandatory account (€200).
There’s no monetary transaction in that scenario.
correct. and here is a live example of it from the onecoin official FB page:
They are actually presented as payouts of cash in a Cash Account, and people can use them to pay for Gift Codes and membership packages, “just like real money”. And people can withdraw them as cash via the eWallet.
It will probably become less confusing without accounting theories. 🙂
Accounting has progressed beyond theory.
There’s nothing wrong with accounting rules, it only becomes wrong if you use accounting rules as a primary factor for how to identify it, e.g. if you ignore the realities.
We should normally try to identify potential risks associated with the opportunities reviewed, “provide factual information about it”.
OneCoin most likely uses money coming in from new investors to pay the old ones. It doesn’t have any other identifiable sources of money coming in. So it will collapse when old investors try to withdraw more money than new investors pay in.
Accounting rules will not correctly reflect the risk, e.g. it won’t make any sense telling people that the balance in the Cash account is “money owed to them by OneCoin, a liability to the company and an asset to the investor”. That will clearly be misleading.
It could have made sense if courts had identified it in a similar way. But a court will more likely see it as a part of a fraudulent scheme.
The “no money” statement in question here originated in post #731, when I warned Karan against OneCoin. So the terms used must be seen in that context for whether it was clear and factual enough.
It was a reply to post #727.
And it started like this.
It identified all the 5 different OneCoin accounts as “no money” accounts, and it also pointed out that eWallets are not really bank accounts.
It would only have become much more vague and misleading if I had included any of the accounting arguments in post #814. 🙂
I think post 765 is really much more to the point.
As riveting as this discussion about the merits or otherwise of double entry accounting may be, could someone more knowledgeable than I explain why someone would go to the trouble of setting up a program with the sole intention of defrauding others of hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars, and then stick to normal accounting practices ????
Wouldn’t it be smarter to, you know, simply make s*** up and PRETEND to be employing a double entry accounting system, like the PRETEND cryptocurrency or PRETEND advertising platform you’re using ???
I see it as “poor strategy”. 🙂
if you want me explain something to you LRM, just say it!
even fraudulent businesses need to use accounting systems, to keep track of their money. they will stick to ‘normal’ accounting methods because, why will they create some new accounting method?
how much money comes in, how much they owe out, credits and debits arising from internal fake money transactions etc, they will have to keep proper accounting systems to run their ponzi efficiently.
yeah, because it certainly aint stopping you 🙂
Even the most primitive business software use “double entry” to keep records of transactions, e.g. sale of a product will require one entry for money coming in from customer and one entry for the product delivered.
Without that second entry, the business would have been unable to know when to order new products for inventory.
The answer isn’t in conflict with the second part of your post. You will need a record of transactions to be able to PRETEND, too.
Madoff needed to know how much money his victims had invested to be able to calculate a pretended ROI, he couldn’t simply make up some random numbers each year.
Paul Burks could pretend a Profit Share percentage, but he needed to know the VIP Points balances to be able to calculate the RPP amount each day.
The correct term there should probably be “new products for stock”, rather than “new products for inventory”.
Which would be true, IF we were talking about a real “business” with real “stock” but, we’re not.
We’re talking about entities where the “stock” doesn’t exist, other than on somebodys’ screen.
Run out of “banners ads” or “banner impressions” or “adpacks” or “onecoins” ????
Easy fixed, press a few keys and you have as much new “stock” as you want, along with a flashy new .gif or .jpeg proving its’ existence.
Madoff investments is not, OneCoin / Zeek / AdSurf Daily / My Advertising Pays et al
Your theories don’t match the reality of modern day internet based fraud.
I used that method to create $500 out of thin air, in a MLM software demo program. I used the Admin tools to create a transaction, and then I logged in as a user to check the results.
Here’s how it looked like to the user “James”, a $500 “Gift from management”.
bildr.no/view/bU1keXBO
Fraudsters will most likely use real software to make it look “real enough to fool people”. There’s no need to create a new, non-standard system if a standard system looks more real.
Whether there’s a “need” or not, it’s being done.
There is a “Taj Mahal” package now?
I don’t doubt it. Those two knuckleheads at Achieve with their secret algorithms come to mind.
A prime example of what I’m talking about.
They claimed to be using a “secret algorithm” when, in fact, they were using one of the hundreds of standard “off the shelf” HYIP ponzi scripts available on the ‘net.
WHAT kind of cryptocurrency cannot be openly traded between members and non members? onecoin is a centralized system, completely defeats the purpose on cryotpcurrency.
is onecoin blockchain public? how could someone audit a blockchain? By nature there is no need to audit a blockchain.
Educate yourself on cryptocurrency, utoken and onecoin are digital tokens its different.
REAALLY makes me mad the way onecoin ponzi pimps try to steal peoples money with smoke and mirrors. its completely unfair for the honest victims who are tricked into this.
and WHY is onecoin only listed on xcoin LOL , where is it on coinmarket cap or anywhere else?
The bull**** kind, of course.
Must be inspired by Donald Trump, not the the Indian tomb/museum.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Taj_Mahal
My Company is on track to hit $1 Billion in sales in HALF the time Groupon did it….. would you like a piece of the pie?
Of course not you are too busy working to even think about getting rich…lol – Invest 10 minutes and change your life.
1 billion in sales?
that is: 200.000 tycoons or 480.000 each invested 2080€ in Onecoin.
There is no day that Onecoin does not make me to LOL
ZeekRewards had 10 billion in sales, but only $850 million was money coming in from the outside (from investors). The rest of it was internal payouts being reinvested.
OneCoin sell Gift Codes = one type of sale
Gift Codes can be used to buy membership package = one type
Membership packages contain OneTokens
Tokens can be used to purchase mining = one type
Why would a Cryptocurrency company have “sales”… Unless it’s actually SELLING the coins? Clearly it’s an INVESTMENT, not real sales. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
What is an internal payout again?
OneCoin is not a cryptocurrency company, but a network marketing company
= most money comes in through the sale of membership packages
* containing Tokens that can “grow in value” and “split” (multiply)
* which then can be used to buy mining of onecoins
* which then can be sold on an internal exchange
* which then will generate “money” in a Cash Account
* which then can be reinvested in membership packages
* etc. (repeat over and over again)
I used a simplified model there. People actually buy Gift Codes first, and then they use Gift Codes to pay for membership packages. They also have a Mandatory Account to pay for onecoins in the exchange
It’s a non-monetary payout, “no real transaction of money”.
Zeek’s Daily Profit Share was transferred to a “Cash Available” account. It could then be reinvested in VIP sample bids, which would generate VIP Points for 90 days, which would generate a daily profit share, which was transferred to the “Cash Available” account, which could be reinvested or be withdrawn, etc.
In the internal payout, there’s no real money involved, no exchange of ownership to any money.
I compared it to monopoly money in a couple of posts. Monopoly money can be used as payment inside a game or a system, “just like real money”, but it does’t have any function or value outside that game or system.
I used that comparison because most people already have relatively rational ideas about monopoly money. I don’t think anyone will insist on the idea that monopoly money has any real monetary value, like they potentially can do with a “Cash Account”. 🙂
Monopoly money has some type of value inside the game. It isn’t completely worthless, it does actually have a function inside the game. But it will be completely worthless for real world transactions of money.
Most people have relatively rational ideas about the “profit” they can make in a game of Monopoly. They know that their own supply of monopoly money can “grow” during the game, but they don’t expect to bring that “profit” out into the real world.
There may be no exchange of “ownership” but when a single, or combination of transactions results in an increase to the investors cash balance (or cash available balance) the company’s obligation to pay real money increases as well.
Whether the company can ( or chooses) to pay is a separate matter.
Reinvestment of phantom earnings is not accountable as sales since no revenue is generated. If an investor uses a cash balance to “purchase” a gift code it reduces his cash balance and retires the company’s obligation to pay him but No new money comes into the company, and no recognizable sale has taken place.
Doing it your way greatly overstates sales volume.
I think you’re dead wrong about that. Everyday people post that they have either been able to withdraw funds or they haven’t.
I don’t there is any doubt that they expect/hope to convert their balances to real world money. There would be no incentive to participate otherwise.
‘expecting’ and ‘hoping’ is a bit different than ‘knowing’ that the balance in your cash account can be converted to real cash at any time of your choosing.
the cash account in a ponzi scheme can at best ‘appear’ to be similar to a real bank cash account.
ben has stated in an earlier post that if the cash account of a ponzi fails, then it is comparable to a bank or country failing.
the difference here, is that ponzi schemes Will Collapse on math alone, banks and countries can fail due to bad management, like anything else it this world, it is Not a mathematical certainty.
in short, onecoin’s cash account is as real as the self owned exchange it trades on. it’s all ‘pretend’.
Ben – That’s until it all comes crashing down. We have seen it all before with the likes of UFUN and Zeek.
The cheerleaders like you come out with all this crap. Then all hell hits the fan, and there will be hundreds of thousands of people who have lost money and crying.
Where will you be? Hiding from the authorities trying to claw it all back would be my guess. Look at all the people that made money in UFUN and Zeek now.
All hiding out in far away lands, so they don’t have to give back their ill gotten gains.
If that is what make you ” LOL “, then what can I say?
I was talking about the game of Monopoly there. 🙂
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_(game)
The whole post was about that people have relatively rational ideas about that game. That’s why I could use monopoly money as an example.
Since I don’t know anything about which places you visit on the internet or the posts you’re reading there, I can’t say anything about that. 🙂
LOL, you are new here aren’t you?
benzmith.tumblr.com
He will hiding, not me.
facebook.com/OneCoinOne/photos/a.1386754054949090.1073741828.1386739924950503/1512097269081434/?type=1&theater
You were making a 1:1 comparison between your misnamed “internal” transactions and Monopoly money. Don’t think you can fob off the colors of Monopoly money as an explanation.
The people who participate in these schemes have every anticipation of being able to convert your so-called monopoly money into real world cash when they make a withdrawal request… and why shouldn’t they… when its very clear to everyone that tens of thousand of persons are able to do so.
They are called net winners in case you need to be reminded.
Uh….I am speaking of the people that make such statements on this blog. You know the one’s you respond to every day.
Are you two different people. stupido?
Since there is no outside investments to increase the value of the so called ” OneCoin”… All they are doing is ripping off friends & relatives to get there percentages….
How can anyone call them ” Net Winners”?
The term Net winner was coined by the Zeekler receiver. In filings with the court, those that lost money in the scheme are termed net losers and those who made money are termed net winners.
Net losers are considered creditors of the Zeekler (RVG) estate and entitled to share in its assets, while net winners are being sued by the estate for the money they received from the scheme. Net winnings in this case is money taken out minus money invested….very straight forward. All the fictitious accounting entries and marketing incentives are disregarded.
Net winner is purely a quantitative term and has nothing to do with the character or actions of the person, though perhaps it sounds that way.
Post #846 specifically mentioned in a game of Monopoly.
Monopoly money can only be used inside a game. It does actually have a function inside that game, but that doesn’t mean it has some function or value out in the real world.
The Cash Account is more similar to monopoly money than to real money.
@Hoss
Several of your comments seem to have derailed from the context.
Example 1:
Post #840 my post
Post #842 question from you (about internal payouts)
Post #844 answer from me
Post #847 you seem to have derailed in the second part of that post, e.g. you’re replying to your own post there rather than to one of mine. You’re actually having a heated discussion with yourself there.
It won’t make any sense for me to post any answer to your post #847. The most relevant parts of the ZeekRewards case have already been concluded.
Example 2:
Post #846 my post “people have relatively rational ideas”
Post #848 Comment from you, missed the point about Monopoly game
Post #851 reply from me, trying to correct that misunderstanding
Post #853 your answer to post #851
Post #856 my post, trying to correct that misunderstanding
I’m simply unable to recognize what you’re talking about in post #853.
Some might say that an elephant is more similar to a watermelon than to a pretzel but it does not make it a watermelon.
The cash account is a creature of accounting. It is the investor’s cash receivable. Its no more and no less than that.
I haven’t said anything like that either. It seems to be based on your own ideas rather than mine, i.e. you must point to an original post to make it become more understandable.
The Cash Account doesn’t need to be based on ordinary accounting. It can simply be a stand alone system with no real transactions of money.
I have already pointed out that TelexFree had 2 systems:
1. One system based on real transactions of money.
2. One system based on internal, non-monetary transactions.
So your argument “The Cash Account is a creature of accounting” doesn’t really tell us anything. You must identify it as a “type 1” or “type 2” first before it can make any sense.
I have identified OneCoin’s Cash Account as a “type 2” = it doesn’t really handle any real monetary transactions.
“Type 2” means that it has a function similar to Zeek’s “Cash Available” account, similar to TelexFree’s “internal payment system” (I don’t remember any account names in TelexFree).
We already know the correct answers for “type 2” accounts. When Zeek transferred “money” to the Cash Available account, it didn’t really transfer any money. But people could still reinvest “money” directly from that account, and people could also use it for withdrawal requests.
Oh? What would it be based on?
It entered a dollar denominated credit to their account receivable. Its easily understood and explained.
You are trying to reinvent the wheel when you would be much better served by reading the first chapter of an accounting text.
That’s why I gave you TelexFree as an example. It doesn’t need to be based on any real monetary transactions.
Where did you find that explanation? If it ends up in THEIR “account receivable”, it should normally end up on the debit side. If it ends up in ITS “account payable”, it should normally end up on the credit side.
I believe you’re mixing up bookkeeping transactions and monetary transactions. They are not the same types of transactions.
Accounting can be based on real monetary transactions. It can also accept non-monetary ones. So you can’t use accounting theories as the only argument to establish whether someone has transferred money to or from an account.
There’s a weakness in your theory, e.g. it looks like you’re trying to make the realities match accounting theories = “apply realities to theory”, rather than the other way around = “apply theories to realities”.
The investor’s receivable is increased. Whether that requires a debit or a credit you can decide.
It sure can. For example when the investor requests a cash withdrawal and is paid “real money” his cash available balance decreases, the company’s accounts payable balance decreases, the company’s cash balance decreases, and the merchant account cash balance decreases.
That being said there are transaction types that increase the company’s accounts payable but do not affect the company’s cash or merchant account balances at all, such as when a company accrues liabilities which it never pays.
When Paul Burks at Zeekler manually entered bogus daily profit sharing percentages which in turn increased the investor’s cash available balances it was fraud, but he also permitted early investors an opportunity to withdraw small fortunes in real money while later investors poured additional funds into the scheme.
The interim effect of Burks’ actions was to synthetically increase the cash available balances, but the end effect was to permit early participants to withdraw more money sooner from Zeekler’s merchant accounts.
Whether this was accounting fraud or a game of monopoly will be decided by the courts.
We can try an easier example …
If you withdraw money from your checking account through an ATM, it will be a real monetary transaction.
* Money OUT from you checking account
* Money IN to your wallet
If you do the same in bookkeeping, nothing will really happen. You will still have the same amount in your checking account, and the same amount in your wallet.
Your bookkeeping will show some misleading information about a non-existing transaction. It will not end up as “money owed to your wallet” or a “liability to your bank account”.
You seem to believe that bookkeeping will create a corresponding monetary transaction, but that simply isn’t true. Or you believe that bookkeeping transactions ARE real monetary transactions, i.e. “the bookkeeping transactions ARE the reality, while the other transactions simply are reflections of the reality”.
I have never contended that an accounting entry IS the physical transfer of money. My point has always been that an entry may trigger the physical or electronic transfer of money.
Whether this happens or not depends, in part, on how automated the accounting system is, what its linked to, whether the system approves a request for funds and whether there are funds available.
I have my doubts that when someone says “I have money in my cash account,” they are saying they believe it contains actual money in the first place. but you seem to get off by making the point that it doesn’t.
Debt will normally show up as CREDIT. Assets will normally show up as DEBIT.
CREDIT creditors = you owe them more money
DEBIT creditors = you owe them less money
CREDIT debtors = they owe you less money
DEBIT debtors = they owe you more money
Your theory will need to survive the simple test in my previous post.
The bookkeeping transaction will only create a record of a transaction, real or false. It will not create any corresponding monetary transaction, e.g. your bookkeeping will not withdraw any money from your bank account to your wallet.
You seem to believe that a bookkeeping transaction will create such a monetary transaction, or that a bookkeeping transaction IS that type of transaction?
“Will create” = your bookkeeping program will reach out to your bank account and perform that type of transaction by itself.
Which is exactly what I said.
“Account receivable” and “Account payable” are typical bookkeeping accounts. They don’t hold any money, they only hold records of information. And so do all other bookkeeping accounts, “just to clarify that”.
None of these accounts contain any money (or any inventory, any land, any building, any equipment, any vehicle, etc.):
Nothing will really happen if the company increases a Cash Account balance and reduces a corresponding balance.
The owner of the Cash Account may feel “rewarded”, but it won’t cost the company any money. It will of course cost money later when the owner of the Cash Account decides to withdraw money from his account.
Ponzi schemes will typically try to make many investors feel “rewarded” by paying out phantom payouts to internal accounts. The other method is to make the investors believe in some future profit from the investment.
OneCoin seems to be using both those methods.
I have never contended that an accounting entry IS the physical transfer of money. My point has always been that accounting entries are neccessary to trigger the physical or electronic transfer of money.
Whether this happens or not depends, on how automated the accounts payable system is.
No
Here, an increase in an investor’s cash account would INCREASE the company’s accounts payable. The company’s liabilities are increasing not reducing.
Lets move on.
nigel allen former president of onecoin, who got chucked out by ruja ignatova, and promotes octa coin of crypto 888 these days, has gone on the offensive against onecoin, according to FB reports.
in an ‘interview’ with kent anthony, who self admittedly is promoting octacoin in south and central america, nigel allen let’s loose at ruja:
so, nigel allen who has a history of ponzi scams, had no idea onecoin was scam till his commissions stopped coming!
the link to the above interview has been posted on onecoin’s official FB page by kent anthony, in what seems to be a blatant action to steal onecoin affiliates.
so, will ruja be sending out a little C&D to allen soon?
That seems to be the best idea. Your bookkeeping theories will most likely not survive any “reality tests”.
Survive this.
Capital = Assets + Liabilities
or
Monopoly money + internal transactions = bullshit
Which would you call theory? The one that ends in bullshit or the one that is universally recognized as the basis or double entry accounting.
As far as I can see, that formula seems to be wrong? The result of that equation will be completely meaningless.
Assets = Capital + liabilities seems to be about balance sheet logic. It can be used as a method to check for calculation errors.
* Assets is about the debit side of the balance sheet.
* Capital + liabilities is about the credit side.
I actually have a basic bookkeeping education, but a very simple one. And I haven’t used it since the early 1990-ies, so I don’t remember much of it.
You seem to be putting together random bookkeeping theories found on the internet, i.e. you don’t have enough knowledge to check the correctness yourself and neither do I. So discussing it will be rather meaningless.
The first one is obviously a flawed theory. The fact that you tried to back it up with some bold statements about “universally recognized” makes it even worse.
The second one cannot be interpreted logically. Some information seems to be missing.
I’ll assume your bookkeeping education was limited to sharpening pencils.
I had it as a part of a one year “basic business education”. And I have kept the books for my own business for 3 years + 2 years where I used an accounting firm to do it for me. So I have had the required education and experience for some “low level bookkeeping” (manually kept books).
It doesn’t mean I have the required experience now, but neither do you. All you have done is to pull random theories from the internet.
The basic accounting equation is not a random theory. Its at the core of double entry accounting and used to analyze a business.
Bookkeeping, on the other hand is barely more than data entry.
Your monopoly analogy is inadequate and introduces a false element into any discussion of this subject. Why? Because monopoly money can not be converted into cash…EVER … whereas an investor’s cash receivable often can be.
For this reason neither the investor nor the company can treat the cash balance as if it were only play money. Its more than that.
How much more? Analyze the company with accounting tools and you will know. Grow up and quit playing games data entry guy.
Then check the correctness. You entered the wrong formula, a completely meaningless one. 🙂
I identified the correct one in post #875. You can compare your own to that one. I also offered an explanation for WHY that one was correct.
Correct. Bookkeeping is not about transaction of money, but about keeping records of transactions (after the transactions have been performed, i.e. we don’t use accounting to “trigger events”).
The other type of book-keeping transaction is “internal calculations and dispositions”, e.g. calculating VAT, taxes, interests, “periodic summaries” of accounts, “balancing accounts” against other accounts, etc., etc.
The “monopoly money” analogy was presented in a specific context. It was correct enough in that context.
Correct. OneCoin won’t need to “convert” anything.
I have clearly specified that money can come IN to the merchant account from new investors, and it can then be paid OUT to the old ones. That’s how Zeek handled it, except for the fact that Zeek received most investments as Cashier’s Checks.
Max withdrawal for the whole group of investors will be limited to the amount coming in from new investors plus the amount previously stored in the bank account.
There’s no need to transfer money back and forth between a bank account and a non-bank account. It isn’t possible either.
Then explain logically HOW it can be converted?
If you analyse it properly, you will probably realize that book-keeping entries cannot be “converted” into money.
To pay money OUT to the investor’s bank account, they will need to perform a real monetary transaction from another bank account. They can’t simply “convert” book-keeping entries to money. 🙂
I have already pointed out a major flaw in that “convert cash receivable to money” theory. So you shouldn’t need any further explanation.
@Hoss
Here’s a video explanation about how “account receivable” and “account payable” work.
youtube.com/watch?v=fFgJZ4w-E9I
They are used to temporarily store records of uncompleted transactions, e.g. in situations where one party has completed the transaction of goods while the other party hasn’t completed the transaction of money yet.
The video explains the whole process plus alternative solutions, e.g. the merchant who received the goods can pay in cash on delivery rather than “on account”.
Most transactions between businesses are “on account”, i.e. the party purchasing goods or services will receive an invoice after the goods have been delivered, and the transaction will be completed by paying the invoice.
I disagree. If the company treats the cash balance (or cash available balance) as a debt and pays it, then the monopoly money analogy fails completely.
What do you say when that happens? The cash account had no money but then it did? The monopoly money magically changed into real money?
There is no explanation that isn’t lame.
Why not describe the cash account for what it is and avoid the contradictions and confusion….after all its your credibility that is at stake…not mine.
From the investors viewpoint, the cash account is an account receivable. From the company’s viewpoint it is an account payable.
That’s accurate and true whether the investor gets paid or not and reflects both the potential for payment (and as with all schemes of this nature), the very high potential of default.
Yes, this is exactly the case between the Onecoin investor and the company… at least until payment is tendered or the company defaults.
It was correct enough in the context where it was presented?
I compared the Cash Account and those 4 other accounts to monopoly money, based on a specific idea = “a payment system that only works inside a game or a system, but doesn’t have any function out in the real world”.
If you have tried to apply other meanings to it then it may of course fail. That’s why I have asked you to refer to my posts rather than to your own ideas.
It will first need to happen in reality. I won’t include hypothetical scenarios in my explanations if they can’t be identified clearly as “will most likely happen”.
I have referred to other schemes where we already know the most relevant factors, i.e. my arguments have mostly been based on existing knowledge rather than on hypothetical scenarios.
I have tried to identify it correctly. It doesn’t automatically mean that YOU have interpreted it correctly, e.g. you have several posts where you clearly have referred to your own ideas rather than to my explanations.
Focus on your own credibility rather than mine? 🙂
I have clearly said that investors are being tricked to believe they’re making money, so it won’t make any sense trying to identify it from that perspective?
How the investors see it is a major part of the problem. They will be more willing to join OneCoin and invest money if they believe in the wrong ideas.
* They will be less able to protect their own interests, e.g. they may delay withdrawal of money for a too long time.
* The scheme may collapse or be shut down before they can get any money back.
* They may be more eager to recruit friends and relatives, causing additional “social damage”.
So it simply won’t make any sense trying to “reflect” how misleaded investors might see it. You simply cannot expect me to do that?
There has been a few of them, but none of them are in pre-launch now. OneCoin launched in August/September 2014 = it will be difficult for you to make any profit on it (it will most likely collapse within 3-6 months).
It may last longer than 6 months, but it will be difficult for people to make any profit.
OneCoin “relaunched” in January or February 2015 when Nigel Allan was fired = it “collapsed” a few months after the initial launch. So your prelaunch idea might fail to work, it can lead you to shortlived opportunities “everyone tries to join early enough to make a profit”.
A “good” program from recruitment perspective should first of all be “easy to sell” = it will need to be based on ideas ordinary people can believe in and accept (without too much resistance). Ordinary people must simply be eager to join it / eager to invest in it / eager to purchase products from it.
That’s where most programs will fail. They try to make it attractive to recruiters rather than to the people they should recruit, i.e. you must “chase” people and “convince them to join”.
I am not satisfied that it was.
What about the Zeekler reality? It paid out multi millions and Receiver Bell is attempting to claw back real money. What does that say about the cash account? What did it contain?
We have a real world example right in front of us with Zeekler, which I assume is included in your “existing knowledge” base. There we saw that tens of thousands of investors received millions of dollars in real money.
What process resulted in the so-called “monopoly money” displayed in the cash available account being paid out as real world cash from the merchant account?
Your first relevant post seems to be post #788. I accepted that idea as long as it was a general description with only vague details.
You got a question about it in post #794, plus some additional information.
You replied to that post in post #800, etc. (I’m only trying to identify the first few relevant posts).
SUMMARY
There’s no dispute about the idea that the “Cash Account” can be a part of an accounting system. The initial question wasn’t about that, but about whether an account like that can hold any money.
There’s a dispute about how that accounting program actually can work, e.g. about its ability to “trigger events” and to “perform monetary transactions” (as a result of the “trigger event” argument).
There’s a dispute about my use of terms like “internal accounts”, “internal funds”, “internal transactions”, “monopoly money” (primarily from post #731).
Relevant posts are #727 and #731 (initial post), the posts I identified earlier in this post, plus potentially tens of other posts from #800 — #880 (relevance = will depend on how people see it).
MAIN ARGUMENTS
My primary argument has been that internal accounts in a back office don’t hold any money = they can’t be used directly out in the real world to pay bills or purchase goods.
I haven’t accepted debt as “real money” in that context, but I will accept if OneCoin actually has set aside money in a real bank account as a method to handle those internal payouts.
Hoss will need to explain his own arguments himself. His arguments have mostly been based on book-keeping theories.
I have analysed the “credibility risk” for my own posts. There’s nothing there I can’t handle = most arguments seem to be completely rational.
Most arguments have been backed up by references to external sources / known facts. That will heavily reduce any risks.
You have based your arguments primarily on “bold statements” and “vague theories”, with very few external sources. I see that as a much higher risk.
The weakest point in your theories is that they all depend on an imaginary, very flexible accounting program / business software. It was introduced in post #800, but you added some details to it later in a few other posts.
I see imaginary components like that as a much higher “credibility risk” than the use of external sources. I simply don’t see imaginary components and hypothetical scenarios as “very credible”.
Whether implied or expressed every time Onecoin promises to pay someone additional money its account payable increases…. and this is entirely independent from how much money it has in the bank.
I can incur debt by promising to pay Thor $100 without having anything in the bank, so why can’t Onecoin? The answer is, it can.
You need not accept that Debt is real money. Its not. Its just debt, a liability….a ledger entry in accounts payable.
That is true.
1. Walk into Paul Burks office and tell him you want to make a withdrawal from your cash available account.
2. Paul looks at your account balance and says OK
3. Paul writes you a check
4. You take the check to your bank, hand it the teller, and receive cash in return.
5. The Conversion is complete.
From Wikipedia
There’s no real conversion in that description, other than the one where the check is exchanged with cash?
Paul Burks made many fraudulent payouts of money. And the Receiver has tried to clawback many of them under the NC Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act.
We (most of us) already know that those transactions were fraudulent, and that people didn’t really have any money in “Cash Available”. You seem to believe that they had money there? 🙂
Please note that my initial post #731 was meant for “quite normal people” with no reality distortions. 🙂
By the way if the bank does NOT honor the check then you may rightly say there was no conversion and thus “no money” in the cash account, but you can not not know this ahead of time because it depends on what the bank does.
Its a paradox which these schemes use it to their advantage.
You may predict there is “no money” but you can not know for sure. A naive investor may predict there “is money” but he can not know for sure.
See Schrodinger’s Cat (and its box) for further information concerning the yes/no paradox. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
You can not isolate one piece of the transaction chain. You must consider all if it….from start to finish.
IF the investor’s account shows a cash balance of $100 and he receives and is able to cash the check for $100, which results in his cash available balance decreasing by $100 it is frivolous to argue that money was not “in his cash account” to begin with.
Cashing the check was only the last and most visible aspect of the conversion. Reverse the transaction and maybe you will understand what I am getting at.
Reversal: Investor deposits money ($100 in notes) at the bank which in turn credits RVG’s checking account, which in turn results in the investor’s cash available balance increasing by $100.
If you use the basic accounting equation (sorry for the typo in an earlier post) you will find this is a balanced transaction…. providing, you consider the entirety of it and attribute the credits and debits properly.
I don’t think its false to say that this demonstrates that “the money” is where ever its credited at any point in time.
That being said, if the check bounces the equation becomes unbalanced…with obvious consequences to the investor’s expectations.
The money in your example came from Paul Burks when he wrote that check, it didn’t come from the “Cash Available” account.
* He clearly didn’t take money out of “Cash Available”, to put it into a checking account.
* The check was drawn on a real bank account, not on your “Cash Available” account.
Zeek had either 10 billion or 7 billion in sales of VIP bids. Only $810 million was paid for with real money from the outside. The rest of it was paid for with the internal accounts, and it didn’t really generate any revenue or profit.
So people didn’t really have any real money in their “Cash Available” accounts. Their reinvestments were “worthless transactions” = no exhange of value.
Some transactions were legitimate, based on the fact that Zeek owed money to those investors (not based on “Cash Available”).
Other transactions were fraudulent, based on the fact that Zeek didn’t have any profit to distribute to investors (not based on “Cash Available”).
stop. cease&desist.
when a Real cash account shows money, it means that money is real and creditable to the account. that means some Real financial transaction has taken place, and that credit balance is acceptable to a financial institution or court of law.
the cash balance in a ponzi scheme may be fully ‘theoretically’ accountable by a double entry system, all the figures can balance and match and do the tango, but the Numbers while being ‘Mathematically’ correct do not Relate to Actual Cash.
there just isn’t enough Cash Incoming in a ponzi scheme to make the Double Entry System ‘True’.
you could pay me cash and i can continually buy$sell you plots of land on mars, and maintain my double entry system to within a breath of your onecoin ‘accountancy’. how ‘true’ would that be?
what does SYSTEMS have do with ponzi schemes ?
just because a redline bus can transport a ponzi scammer from one avenue to the next, will it mean anything at all? does the redline bus service become debatable because it is a SYSTEM?
how silly. the night is still young. fear not.
This is all so mind boggling here. Is OneCoin registered with the SEC?
Ruja was to make her presence in the US in Sept, but now, it is Oct. Is this a stall tactic/lie to buy her and her buddies more time to rack in more money?
It seems to be, as they now are offering or will be offering a Taj Mahal package?
My friend’s friend is only making money by recruiting, so I’m told.
I have analysed the whole chain, and it’s clearly broken. It only appeared to be unbroken to the investors.
That’s the reason for why I brought it up initially.
People will support the prolonged lifetime of the scheme if they can get other investors to believe they have real money in their internal accounts, that there’s “no hurry to withdraw money” and that people “safely can reinvest payouts”.
I’m trying to clarify how it really is, so we don’t become a part of that problem.
If people understand how they’re being tricked, it will be more difficult to trick new investors to invest in the scheme, i.e. the total damages will most likely be reduced, fewer people will be harmed, etc.
THE TRANSACTION CHAIN
1. You showed your “Cash Available” balance to Paul Burks, and requested a withdrawal.
2. Paul Burks looked at your balance, and decided to write a check. He probably reduced your Cash Available balance too.
3. You got the check from Paul Burks, and converted it to cash in the nearest bank. That’s the only real conversion of value here, from check to cash.
Paul Burks didn’t transfer any money from your Cash Available account to his checking account. He looked at it, and he reduced the balance. And then he decided to write a check.
He didn’t take any money out, and he didn’t transfer any money between two bank accounts.
Its not even clear what that would mean,(?) The company would not register itself “with the SEC,” it would only submit its plan to offer securities in the US with the SEC. If after review the Plan was approved the SEC would register the security (not the company.)
From everything I have read here it is very doubtful that One Coin has submitted a Plan and even more doubtful that the SEC would ever approve it.
Since registration of a security implies that the SEC has reviewed and approved the offering, any representation that One Coin is “going to register with the SEC” is a dodgy way of insinuating the scheme “will” (or more to the point, “could” pass SEC scrutiny.
If One Coin had (past tense) registered a security with the SEC they would be furnishing EVERY prospective investor with a copy of a detailed prospectus and other documents before accepting funds (as SEC disclosure rules demand)
One Coin + SEC registration does not pass the sniff test.
Anyone from Germany reading this???
What happened in Germany? 25% in 14 days??? WOW!
By the way, now you can see stats from all countries,
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18L1v1VBpbjZxpqZkawEWktQqFaYQ45F758tC960ZusU/edit?usp=sharing
You don’t seem to understand how this works.
Zeek/Onecoin … all of these schemes … are pooled investments …. like an investment fund (that’s why the SEC has oversight)
No investor can take “money out” of an investment fund without going through the fund manager (admin in this case. ) The investor’s cash account is not his personal bank account. It never was and it never will be. The investor simply has money “on account” WITH the company.
When Burks/Zeek/Onecoin writes a check to an investor or initiates an electronic transfer in response to a withdrawal request it is company funds that are being transferred and so long as the check cashes or an electronic transfer is successful the investor will receive the money he has on account.
It therefore follows that whether the investor has money in his cash account, depends on whether Zeek/Onecoin has the money in its bank/merchant account and chooses to pay the withdrawal request.
Something may be broken but its not the transaction chain.
All of these schemes pool funds in a common enterprise. There is also an expectation of profit. This why the SEC often gets involved .
No investor can take “money out” of a pooled investment without going through the fund manager (admin in this case.)
Hundreds of thousand of Investors had money “on account” with Zeek, so as long as Zeek itself had funds “on account” with its bank, the investors had a chance to receive their account balances in real money…. not monopoly money.
What else would you expect? It was a ponzi/pyramid …somebody has to get paid real money if only to create the illusion of profitability for everybody.
A chance to receive != money on account
Zeek shutdown, MLM.com
youtu.be/-mW4OZWyoQ8?t=4m30s
You will need to explain / back up with sources your theory for how 3 billion VIP points backed up with $300 million (10% of the investment) can be seen as “money on account”.
A bank account should be fully backed up by funds / assets. Zeek would have run out of money in 5 or 6 days if every investor had said, as they were entitled to do, “Give me my money back!”.
The fact that a company pays money out to investors doesn’t mean the investors have money on account.
Zeek paid money out with the intent to defraud other investors, so the investors didn’t really owe the money they were paid. Net winnings could legally be clawed back by the Receiver.
How can we know that OneCoin is under-balanced?
1. Zeek had the penny auction website as an “external source of revenue” = a component where money can come in from other sources than the investors themselves. And Zeekler did have a few real penny auction users from the outside.
The only profit Zeek legally could distribute to investors would need to come from that source, just like Paul Burks pretended that it did.
2. OneCoin has the CoinVegas “casino website” as a potential source of revenue, but it only seems to accept CR credits (not money from external consumers). If it has any external customers at all, the revenue generated that way will be de minimis.
OneCoin has a different profit distribution system, more similar to a pyramid scheme. But the only profit it legally can distribute to investors will need to come from external sources like CoinVegas.
“False profit”
Zeek’s relevant income streams:
1. Money coming in from the investors.
2. Money coming in from legitimate sale of retail bids
OneCoin’s relevant income streams:
1. Money coming in from investors.
2. Money coming in from external sources like CoinVegas
Those internal transactions will not bring in more money from the outside.
Note:
I only compared business models / income streams here.
I did NOT analyse law theories, accounting theories, quantum mechanics theories, game addiction theories.
It may, but if investment slows, the odds are it doesn’t.
Oh please. Put away your kindergarten idealism for a moment. The fact is that early investors often DO get paid real money based on their cash account balances and later investors don’t because deposits fail to keep pace with withdrawals.
It was a ponzi. It does not change the fact that Zeek paid real money to the account holders. The clawback action proves it.
You must also consider the tens of thousands who were made whole. Not only did those net winners have money on account but they were paid accordingly. Other later investors were not.
Comparing $3 Billion in liabilities to $300 million in current assets is just another way of saying that Zeek was on the verge of ponzi collapse. No argument there.
Maybe in Bulgaria or Norway… I don’t know, but in the US the schemes are deemed to be integrated and inseparable for such purposes.
No net winner at Zeek is going to get an offsetting credit of 2% because 2% of Zeek money distributions were due to auction profits. Its all or nothing.
It has already been answered.
OneCoin’s “internal system” doesn’t really bring in any money from the outside, other than the money coming in from new investors.
So the pool of money will be very limited.
Well you applied one, and as far as US law goes….incorrectly.
You’ve been hanging around here long enough to know that US securities law provides no exception for otherwise legal activities if conducted within a ponzi/pyramid scheme.
Its straight forward under US law. If you want to sell phone minutes, manage people’s money or run a penny auction and LEGALLY distribute profits, then DON’T attach those activities to a ponzi/pyramid scheme.
From the “Global Currency Reserve” thread.
A small part of that article.
Your response illustrates why both you and El Norteno are needlessly developing indigestion.
Its a misconception to describe a cash account as real (vs. unreal.) An account, though intangible, is created, thus it is always real. The question is whether its accurate.
I submit (again) that if the cash available balance of a PARTICULAR investor indicates that $100 may be withdrawn, and the investor is able to collect $100 in cash as a result, then the cash available balance was accurate at the time of the transaction. This investor did in fact have $100 cash available.
To clarify, the proper use of double entry accounting would immediately expose the systemic imbalances inherent in a ponzi, not hide them. That’s why the investor’s are never shown the whole picture or provided with a company-wide audit and why Receiver’s immediately engage forensic accountants when appointed.
That being said the company usually can and does cover some of its obligations in order to promote the impression that later investors will likewise be paid.
I clearly knew that it could be misinterpreted, so I carefully added that note.
That note was specifically meant for you. “You can’t apply legal theories here, or accounting theories, or quantum mechanic theories, or any other theory”.
I have the feeling that it will become even more confusing if we continue to discuss it, so I believe we should stop that discussion here.
Who cares how they do their accounting…. This company is amazing.
With no outside investors or interest in onecoin it still increased in value 25% overnight and will increase another 100% with a split in the next few days……
This is an amazing feat, apparently Disney is not the only company who can work magic.
You failed to back up your own theory there?
I specifically asked for some external sources, something that isn’t solely based on how you interpret how things work.
You have an explanation in #901, starting with “You don’t seem to understand how this work”, about my broken transaction chain argument.
Then it goes …
Partially correct.
They are generally about “pooled investments”, but they are not “like an investment fund”. Ponzi schemes are fraudulent investments, so people don’t really have any money on account in them.
So my statement “a chance to receive money != money on account” seems to be correct. I won’t really need to analyse the rest of your arguments there.
I backed it up with the explanation from the attorney, plus a simplified explanation.
[Transaction chain]
That is a different question.
I have pointed out that there’s a major difference between Ponzi schemes and investment funds. People don’t really have money on account in Ponzi schemes.
A chance to receive money from a Ponzi scheme shouldn’t be misinterpreted as “money on account” in an investment fund.
MAIN POINTS
* Ponzi scheme back office accounts don’t really hold any money, i.e. they don’t have similar functions as a bank account (the required functions).
* They are not similar to personal accounts in an investment fund either, i.e. they are not backed up by real investments.
* They have a function similar to monopoly money, i.e. “a payment system that only have a function inside a game or a system, but no functions or monetary value out in the real world”.
Please note that I didn’t say they were exactly like monopoly money. I only tried to identify the “inside a game” versus “out in the real world” aspect.
It was a reply to my post post #898, “transaction chain”.
The transaction chain can be broken, in the context we have discussed it, if one of the elements in that chain is of a different type than the others.
A withdrawal request is not a transaction of money in itself. You don’t transfer any money between two bank accounts there, and you don’t pay anything in cash either to Paul Burks.
* There’s no transaction of “money from you to him”.
* The only real transaction of money there is when Paul Burks gives you a signed check, “money from him to you”
Paul Burks accepted “something” from you in a transaction, but that doesn’t automatically mean that the “something” really was money. It can have been part of a fraudulent scheme, e.g. that he accepted his own “monopoly money funds”.
We already know the answer to it, so we won’t need to speculate about WHAT he accepted.
Go tell that to the Madoff investors.
Have you ever had a decompressive craniectomy?
They found out that Ponzi schemes are not like ordinary investment funds. That’s exactly my point.
Bernie Madoff only pretended they had “money on account”, but they didn’t really have it. It wasn’t backed up by any real investments.
You seem to believe in the theory that “since the investors believed it was real then it WAS real (for some time, until it suddenly turned out to be false)”.
I have no idea what you think Burks accepted. Its seems to me he accepted that he owed the investor money, and paid him with a check that cleared the bank. = Happy investor.
From an accounting point of view they are and that is what was being discussed, not whether Madoff was making legitimate investments.
I have a test question …
Do you believe David Copperfield was cut in half in this 29 seconds “Laser Illusion / street prank” video? It’s a rather funny, short video, “worth watching”.
youtube.com/watch?v=rFmlKmEhuv8
Believing does not make it real. However, being paid funds on account is real. It means that the fund manager (ponzi admin) has real honest to god money in a bank account with which to pay the demand. See Bell v Disner.
If you are having difficulty separating what is real from belief then…well ya know there is alway room on Team Wukar.
Your primary argument is “It seems to me“.
With that method, you won’t really need to examine anything for how it really works, because “the reality” always will be found inside your own head — in the ideas you already have accepted.
The main question here was about whether those “internal accounts” (in Zeek and OneCoin) really did hold any money.
“Accounting point of view” should normally require that the personal accounts (in Madoff’s scheme) were backed up by real investments, i.e. that Madoff didn’t simply fake a ROI to the investors.
It doesn’t prove anything about which account the money came from.
Ponzi schemes will trick investors to believe they have “money on account, backed up by real investments”. To be able to trick the investors, the scheme will also need to allow withdrawals of money. Some investors will manage to withdraw a profit at the expense of other investors.
That’s how Ponzi schemes work in reality. You can’t use the withdrawals as a “proof”, e.g. to prove that “the investors really had money on account”.
I never said every account could be paid. I seriously doubt that all could, but any particular investor’s cash account has a chance of being paid. Note the difference.
You have repeatedly said to individuals that their personal account has “no money.” You have no way of knowing if its true.
The money is paid out of the company’s merchant account/bank account. What the hell account do you think it comes from?
Does Norway have a colony on Mars?
Bell v. Disner will tell you that the Ponzi admin didn’t have real honest to god money in a bank account he could use to pay to the investors as a profit.
That’s why the Receiver tries to claw money back from net winners.
So you have probably misinterpreted something in that case.
A chance of getting paid != money on account.
I have backed it up with one external source, the MLM.com video (an attorney explaining it).
You seem to have a “center of the universe” perspective, where everything in the universe will be affected by the ideas you currently hold in your head, the ideas you have accepted or will accept.
In an honest investment fund, the investors’ personal accounts will be backed up by real investments. That “backed up by real investments” seems to be completely missing in your reasoning.
Instead you focus on the payout of money, the fraudulent transaction, and use that as a proof for “honest to god money”.
I believe it’s time to end this discussion. It has started to become completely meaningless.
@Rockfish
Uh, the only reason your Ponzi points increased in value is because someone typed a value into a computer (think Paul Burks with Zeek’s daily ROI percentage).
Without new investment into OneCoin there’s nothing to withdraw, and it’s a certainty that if every last OneCoin was withdrawn right now, the scheme would collapse.
OneCoin, just like any other Ponzi scheme, cannot create money. They can only pay out the sum total of what affiliates have invested.
Irrelevant.
Lack of profit does not prohibit money from being paid to the affiliates.
A chance of getting paid ! = “no money” either.
It depends on whether the company pays. For about 80, 000 Zeekers there was cash available. For ten times as many net losers there was not.
Withdrawals prove that there was cash available which is more than “no money” and something all together different than monopoly money since the withdrawals were paid in cash…the same cash which Bell intends to recover from the net winners by the way.
Its a dirty immoral business but people make money at it. Why are you pretending its otherwise.
@Hoss
I don’t have any legitimate reason to continue the discussion.
You will need to post your own, independent explanation for how you see it, e.g. like you would do if you should explain it to a new reader (like I did in post #731).
My position has been completely unchanged since post #678 / #731. I have only added some minor details to it. Your position has changed multiple times. I don’t think you have any complete ideas here.
….and sometimes they are not.
I can confirm from several users that nobody so far has succeed to withdraw money from CoinVegas.
The CR from the withdraw are gone, but users did not receive any Euros yet anywhere.
If onecoin was scam, their casino is 100x bigger scum. WATCH OUT!!!
They talk about both. I have also covered withdrawals.
Post #731 can be seen as the initial post for the part of the discussion you have engaged yourself in. Your first post was probably #788.
Post #678 can be seen as an initial post for the part of the discussion Ben was involved in.
I made a summary in post #887.
A discussion about whether internal accounts really do hold any money (similar to bank accounts, or similar to investment funds accounts) may have high relevance for Ponzi schemes, as long as people manage to keep the discussion “on track”.
That’s my reason for stopping the discussion. It simply didn’t bring in any relevant information. You must make your own position much clearer for what you really believe in, making less room for new theories.
Leaving Coin Vegas aside for a moment.
Have you been able to withdraw cash money from One Coin?
Leaving rumors and what may be false representations aside, can you confirm that anyone has withdrawn cash money from Onecoin?
What does CR stand for?
Then don’t.
Jan-Jul 100% money could be taken out from the cashing account. I can’t confirm more since it takes 2-3 weeks too cash out.
Cr = The currency inside CoinVegas. So far I have not seen a single withdrawal from the casino.
The support are playing idiots (have you pushed the confirmation link etc.) and won’t tell you where your money currently is.
Credits bought through onecoin network = Zero Value.
I don’t think you will see any clawback litigations for OneCoin, but you may potentially see SEC actions against local, top promoters in the U.S.
The TelexFree settlement is a local one in Massachusetts, between Fidelity Cooperative Bank of Fitchburg and local authorities. James Merrill’s brother had or have a leading position in that bank.
Appreciate and update in a few weeks.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AI6LZkONvsB3_BSLCtNQlFm-SryQvpch5GfRutM9ihU/edit?usp=sharing
As predicted the closer to the split, the number of members is growing faster. Next week 400.000 should be broken.
The price went up to 1.85/1.95…But nowadays I see only orders pending. The limits are officially 1.5%/day (capped at 12-36-60€) but to sell every day is impossible. Unofficially you can maybe sell 1 time/week.
Think about this… Why did the price go up? I could sell all my Onecoins at the old price. Anyone wants to buy 180 Onecoins at 1.45? No fun when I can sell 2 Onecoins/week at manipulated price.
It usually means that many people are trying to sell / few people are interested in buying = few commissions are coming into the mandatory account = the recruitment has slowed down + few reinvestments.
To make onecoins look more attractive / more profitable to own / more profitable to invest in.
Well, New package, new promotions do well. I think Onecoin is reaching top sales again.The most brainwashed members are upgrading proudly to the Premium packages. No surprise if another top package will come soon.(ELITE?)
The Event? They will make money on it. Tickets 200€.. Free for them who sell for 37,500€.. So if they pay only 200€ for 1 night at hotel, they will make of course a lot of money there.
And they know that such events will brainwash the members even more. But what can you do?
Sebastian Greenwood talked at his latest show “State of the Nation”, how STUPID people are if they sell their coins now.
He was talking 15 minutes that such people need more education or they are not fully competent traders. He recommended to read the academy levels, but what can technical analysis or knowledge about CDO:S futures or gold help in trading Onecoins?
You have limits, pending orders for days/weeks, frozen onecoins for 30-80 days etc. But the members are not complaining so why not to continue the scam if new money is coming.
If someone is complaining they are “marked” as negative souls and not worth listening.
Another interesting fact was that Sebastian Greenwood was claiming that he has converted 1700 people to only concentrate on Onecoin as their only job.
And another interesting fact from Sebastian Greenwood which I think is true:
So far the company has not a missed a single payment – (withdrawing money from cash account).
So soon I guess 2-3 id**ts will talk this thread into more trash because they know and believe of course best. I wouldn’t be surprised if some are payed by Onecoin.
Nice tactics to not let people read the most important facts in this thread.
Bulgarian law: Consumer Protection 2005 (revised 2013)
English version: mi.government.bg/en/library/consumer-protection-act-1-c25-m258-2.html
Section 68g, p 14
And people may want to actually *read* what does “Electronic Commerce Act” of Bulgaria actually says… It has NOTHING to do with OneCoin
daits.government.bg/dox/Electronic_Commerce_Act.pdf
That shouldn’t come as a surprise?
You’re looking at one of the most typical characteristics of Ponzi schemes = the fact that they use money from new investors to pay old ones. But you see it as a “proof” for something.
Whether the Cash Account really holds any money is a relevant part of Ponzi scheme discussions, but it will require people to keep the discussion “on track”.
Ponzi scheme organizers will profit from people believing it really does hold money, e.g. investors can be more willing to invest if they believe in certain ideas. So telling people that it doesn’t really hold any money can clearly be defended.
I can’t sell onecoins anymore..the orders expire after a while.
sell 1 1.855 € pending
sell 1 1.855 € pending
sell 1 1.855 € pending
sell 1 1.855 € pending
sell 1 1.855 € expired
sell 1 1.855 € expired
sell 2 1.855 € canceled
The price went up, but I haven’t seen yet a single transaction at that price (1,85-1,95€). The fluctuating price on the chart is only visual.
postimg.org/image/46e4b99tz/
Best to mention another thing regarding the networks “Cash”. If you buy Credits (CR) to CoinVegas with your Onecoins, you can’t withdraw any money after playing the required betting volume.
I have sold 32 Onecoins and got 59.20EUR.
postimg.org/image/p15nexgm7/4d6f1b7f/
postimg.org/image/hiidbxgtb/aa0da44e/
postimg.org/image/so8zdoxin/9944a817/
SELL 32 1.850 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.850 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.850 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.850 € EXECUTED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
BUY 71 1.300 € EXECUTED
BUY 433 1.250 € EXECUTED
BUY 33 1.250 € EXECUTED
SELL 32 1.850 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.850 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.850 € EXECUTED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
SELL 32 1.850 € EXPIRED
BUY 71 1.300 € EXECUTED
BUY 433 1.250 € EXECUTED
BUY 33 1.250 € EXECUTED
Please stop with your self justifications. Your flat earth hypothesis failed the real world test.
So you did make a transaction this week? And tried to sell every day?
Don’t show the links to edit the pictures. You push the first link “copy to clipboard” and use that to paste in forums
postimg.org/image/p15nexgm7/
postimg.org/image/hiidbxgtb/
postimg.org/image/so8zdoxin/
My page:
sell 1 1.854 € pending
sell 1 1.854 € pending
sell 1 1.854 € pending
sell 1 1.854 € pending
sell 1 1.854 € expired
sell 1 1.854 € expired
sell 2 1.854 € canceled
@Hoss
I gave you an explanation in post #930 and #933. You must post a more complete explanation yourself based on your own ideas, so you don’t derail the discussion completely.
If you want to use Zeek as an example, you must first clarify how you see it, e.g. Ponzi scheme or legitimate business. You can’t cover both positions, e.g. you can’t use the fraudulent transactions as a proof for “honest to god money”..
I stopped the discussion when it had derailed completely, when you didn’t manage to give any meaningful answers, when you seemed to “focus on the details but not on the whole”. You seemed to have lost track of the discussion.
Please post more relevant comments, or more complete ones. I have no idea which “flat earth hypothesis” or “real world test” you’re talking about there. Many of your comments seem to be “random”.
Yes, I tried to sell every day and that was my first successful transaction.
You know their casino? COINVEGAS.EU
First I explain how the casino is working:
—————————————————————————
1€=10CR (Casino credits). There is a promotion going on so if you convert your Onecoins to CR you’ll get 100% extra CR. So 5 Onecoin will give you 5×1,85×2*10=185CR. Then you have to bet 21x185CR=3885CR.
After playing and betting 3885CR then you are able to “cash out”. There is only one option availaible: Bitcoins. So you chose the “bitcoin” withdrawal method and check your mail. You should get an email where you have to confirm the withdrawal. You click on the link… and that’s it. The CR are gone and no money.
—————————————————————————
Fantastic fun? So let’s look at a real story from last week:
—————————————————————————
A man from Sweden converted several thousands of his Onecoins to CR. He did bet over 1.000.000CR and achieved the the required 21 x volume. He won 130.000CR and then decided to cash out 13.000€.
He did the withdrawal procedure and waited for the money. He saw that 130.000 CR was gone from his casino account. After a couple of days he sent an e-mail to support to see what is going on. He got an answer:
The Casino Credits (CR) that you buy with onecoins are only for pleasure (fun money). No cash-outs are possible.
Cash-out is possible only if you buy a “CoinVegas package” 100-5000€ with “real” money.
Uh what?
So this guy converted his OneCoin Ponzi points for OneCoin casino Poinzi points, played the games and won some money.
When he went to withdraw his winnings, OneCoin told him that the winnings don’t count, because he used OneCoins to fund his games and not “real money”.
So if you can’t even use OneCoin to fund their own casino, we can safely assume the real world value of OneCoin (as they’ve always been) is $0.
Is there a cited source for this “man from Sweden”, along with the email OneCoin support sent him?
Yes, it’s taken from a private Facebook private group of 950 people. I also know 3 other people who tried the same with the same result.
The most f*cked up thing is the way Onecoin announces the promotion: Get 100% free CR. Then you can follow how much you have left to bet before you can make the withdrawal. If you did it, you withdraw and confirm… and that’s it!
And imagine that they were playing tens of hours to achieve the volume!
the split barometer around 90% now
2500 new members per day now, not as much as before the last split but surely an increase from 1200 last month.
all stats: benzmith.tumblr.com/
Those 2500 members per day have very little “footprint” on the internet. They should normally have a huge impact on Alexa rankings and general OneCoin related activity (forum posts, etc.).
Alexa ranking for onecoin.eu has been relatively unchanged since June 30. That’s why I stopped posting anything about it, “it didn’t really bring anything new to the table”.
June 30 onecoin.eu global rank: 13,600 (post #520)
August 30 onecoin.eu global rank: 11,224
A global rank of 11,224 is a decent rank in itself. But the change in rank is far from impressive.
The second, third, and fourth.
SELL 32 1.848 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.848 € PENDING
SELL 16 1.848 € PENDING
SELL 16 1.848 € PENDING
SELL 32 1.843 € EXECUTED（30-08-2015 11:35:07）
SELL 32 1.843 € EXECUTED（28-08-2015 20:56:33）
SELL 32 1.843 € EXECUTED（28-08-2015 16:02:41）
SELL 32 1.850 € EXECUTED（27-08-2015 15:43:18）
SELL 32 1.848 € EXPIRED
SELL 32 1.848 € EXPIRED
postimg.org/image/3nx0cdbab/
postimg.org/image/wzbs0lmw5/
postimg.org/image/bcqiyjpw9/
There are a lot of negative rumors about Onecoin, and unfortunately almost all are true. Here are the worst:
The biggest problem is the value of the onecoin. Currently 500.000 owners of onecoin who will be able to sell their onecoins.
Only 15% of the supply is mined so far. Their goal is to mine all coins 2,1B in 4 years.
According to Ruja’s calculation the price should reach 100-200€ in 4 years and maybe surpass Bitcoin as well.
(1000€) 2,1B X 100€ then the market cap will be 210.000.000.000€(2x more than market cap of intel) -1000€ then the onecoins will have more value as Apple today….x3.
So let us say we will have 1.000.000 users soon…We will have 1.000.000 who can sell the onecoin…but WHO WILL BUY??
If somebody wants onecoins they simply buy packages from Ruja. She is always offering the cheapiest price, promotions (free packages), splits, and making new packages. (now premium=12,500€, soon elite 25000€?).
So if there always will be an superior seller, who will buy the mined coins?
She does not care, because she doesn’t own any onecoins. But she owns 100% rights to sell the mining options (tokens), as she can make changes to the rules whenever she wants.
Currently the price 1,85€/1,95€ is only visual and to pretend that the value is growing as expected. But you can only sell 1,5% of yuor coins or max 12-36-60€ and 120€ for premium daily.
And do you think you can sell every day? No, 0-2 times a week maybe.
The orders are pending for days/weeks and then expires. The onecoins that came after the last split, will soon hit the market so don’t expect that it will be easier to sell onecoins.
ok, so after having a. new lowered limit on how many coins you can sell daily and b. having a bunch of sell orders expired I did manage to recoup 1,000 euro initial investment and get it to my bank 2 months ago.
Now I have tried again and after a few days the money went back to the onecoin cash account and a message of failed transaction appeared.
I sent them a note and the email exchange is very interesting, they are either very very stupid or they do not want to pay out any more.
they claim my bank info is no good even though it worked just fine that one time (and it is indeed 100% correct). The answers come from many different people and it is comical – the whole email thread is there yet the latest guy answers back that I must log in and correct my wire out bank information. Running in circles.
Didn’t take long to understand this was a scam (at least I managed to get original investment back) BUT now I believe they are running out of money OR just see how easy it is to just keep it for themselves.
This signals that we’re close to the total collapse here. Guess what, they (management) are the bank, the exchange, everything!
No wonder the fake doctor could buy that big house. What a scheme.
That’s normally a sign of an upcoming collapse. It probably has started already. There have been many signs of problems in the last few weeks.
You don’t have any money in the Cash Account. It’s not a bank account, and it’s not connected to one either.
But you probably already knew that.
If you believe it can be of interest to other readers, then post an edited version of it? Remove email address etc., and post the relevant information.
Some readers have blogs themselves, e.g. they can be interested in material for “Signs of a Ponzi collapse” article.
On Behindmlm’s site about Ruja Ignatova’s OneCoin Forbes cover a paid advertisement, post#36 says this about xcoinx.
Can anybody verify that “xcoinx” is “owned” by Ruja? Would be a great help!
100% it’s owned by Onecoin ltd. In Dubai 17May they announced the site….
traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=575&h=235&o=f&c=1&y=r&b=ffffff&r=6m&u=xcoinx.com
The price was 2000-3000$ if I remember correctly
THE SPLITBAROMETER= 87%…HAS NOT RISEN FOR 9-10 DAYS NOW!
s9.postimg.org/aok38e1fz/fel2.jpg
Why? Do they want to prolong this kind of promotion and squeeze as much money as possible from people? Before the split the amount of new registrations is 2-3 times higher than normally. 1200 -> last and this week 2600/day.
Manipulation again, what else.
(By the way what is High: 1.5463 Low: 1.23568 Current: 1.3257 below the chart? Also dow jones, bitcoin, litecoin prices are old. They doesn’t care to update those anymore)
A friend of a friend who is in OneCoin says another split is coming and to consider upgrading to a higher package. Anyone know of this?
And are you going to sue him for lying if it didn’t happen? Or will you simply accept whatever excuses they offer then?
The splits happen every 80 days or so…upgrading from e.g starter to trader means he will get 1 more split for all his tokens. You can split max 3 times, but the new premium package max is 4 splits.
You buy tycoon and get 60000 tokens + 2 rights to split.
Then you upgrade to premium and add 150000 tokens + 2 more splits. 210.000x2x2x2x2 you will have after 250-320 days (4 splits) 3.360.000 tokens. According to Ruja’s calculation the price after 1 year could be 10€… (1 onecoin=100 tokens)
33.600 onecoins X 10€, 17,500€->336.000€, profit 1820% in 1 year. That’s good isn’t it?
It’s time to get money OUT of the system. Only the extreme naive ones will put more money IN.
What happened? Mr Norway finally wrote something that I agree with him :O
Recently Onecoin updated their cash-out required info. They want to make it more difficult to cash out, what else.
Does everybody have a pass? I don’t think so. And how can they check that? Very strange new fields.
s12.postimg.org/guejvgxf1/cash2.jpg
Short list of the biggest countries and how many sold this week 29.8-4.9 and last week 22.8-28.8
Totally last week 18032 or 2576/day
This week 16962 or 2423/day
So slowing down a little.
What happened in Bulgaria? This week they deleted 24 accounts!
(or more if some people joined too)
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EO5WmzyXVVzVToVvOdG0KlN6Nbs079CCx8zltDlinRU/edit?usp=sharing
Really? I thought he was still talking about monopoly money.
you never know 😛
I have said that all the time?
People should not believe they have real money in the Cash Account, they should try to withdraw money away from the system to their own external bank accounts.
Experienced ones will try to get other people to reinvest payouts so THEY can withdraw more money themselves.
* Withdrawals will cause the scheme to collapse more quickly.
* Reinvestments will reduce withdrawals, keeping the scheme alive for a longer period of time, harming more investors.
* Money coming in from the outside can be used to support withdrawals. If investments from new investors slows down then there will only be a limited amount available for withdrawal.
* Reinvestments won’t support any withdrawals, e.g. you can’t ask other investors “OneCoin is running low on cash. Can you put some money from your cash account into the system so I can be able to withdraw cash?”. It won’t work even if they do put more “money” in.
It doesn’t really matter how people see it, e.g. “monopoly money” or “Ponzi points”, as long as they don’t believe they have real money or real investments in the accounts.
The cash accounts are part of what you call “the “system” are they not?
Please explain how an affiliate withdraws money from the system? (as you have advised)
They send a withdrawal request to the management. If OneCoin is low on cash, the withdrawal request will fail, being returned as “unexecuted” or “failed”.
If OneCoin still has enough money in the bank account connected to the payment processor, the withdrawal request will be executed = making money available for withdrawal in the ewallet account.
Note that I didn’t mention any transaction of money here, no movement of money between accounts.
Additional explanation:
You can’t “fill up” your ewallet account with money from your cash account, it doesn’t hold that type of money. And neither do any of those other accounts, e.g. you can’t “fill it up” with onecoins either.
The money will need to come from a different place, typically from newly invested funds “from the outside”.
Discussing where the money comes from is uneccessary.
If the person receives a payment it is fair and accurate to say that the person had that amount of money in his account. On the other hand tomorrow he may have none, because the “system” has none. This, I assume, is why you said…
Fine. Withdraw every penny from your cash account because that is the reference point “the system” uses to approve payment.
No way mr norway. THEY WILL NEVER BY LOW ON CASH. Their goal is to make big profits by scumming people. So they have full control how much money is profitable to leave the system.
If it will be any problems with the cash-outs, it’s not because they are low on cash. They just decide that it’s not profitable anymore to run the scum further.
Don’t forget that they sell education worth 0 and they have sold education packages for 75-200.000.000€ so far (depends a lot on Chinese numbers are real or not). 55% goes to bonuses, the rest to Ruja and her company(or more).
Money will need to come IN from somewhere before it can be paid OUT. The only source of money is the money coming in from investors (“money from the outside”).
Money from the inside won’t work in the same way. There’s a difference between the money in the cash account and the money out in the real world.
Before it has been paid OUT through withdrawals, it’s not “money on account”. It’s some numbers on a screen and in a database.
If OneCoin had been a bank and the cash account had been a bank account, your theory would have been correct. Then you could have transferred money directly to the ewallet account.
But in OneCoin you will need to send withdrawal request, you can’t transfer any money directly. The function simply isn’t there. You can “transfer funds” between internal accounts (e.g. between member accounts), but you can’t transfer anything to real bank accounts.
The first sign of “low on cash” is usually new investment packages / other similar changes — to reduce withdrawals.
Then you have multiple other signs, e.g. change of payment processor, withdrawal delays, failed withdrawals, “hacking problems”, “login problems” and other account problems. It may only affect a few members.
Are you talking about the membership packages there?
Or do people pay extra for “education packages”, with money from the outside?
Post #962 reported a failed transaction, plus some meaningless support messages.
“Failed transaction” will occur when they don’t have enough money in the payment processor account to support withdrawal to the ewallet. It will make the experienced investors become really nervous, even if it only affects a few the first time.
Regardless of how the request is transmitted, as a rule, “the system” will not automatically permit withdrawals larger than an affiliate’s cash account balance. Not even ponzi pimps want to pay more than promised.
Certainly that is true, but you must also consider the case where “the system” is high on cash (as Ben proposes.) There, one or more overly large withdrawals could draw down or wipe out the company’s cash position in a matter of minutes or seconds.
To succeed at ponzi, “the system” may and probably will pay out less, or slowly, but it sure can not pay out immediately, without restriction and uncapped. The affiliate’s cash balance or cash available balance serves as the cap.
So obvious, discussion of it is unnecessary. You need not keep repeating yourself.
He didn’t mention anything about “withdrawal larger than balance”?
The support message didn’t indicate it either. It indicated “incorrect bank details”, a standard PayPal message.
We can probably ask Ben about it? He can probably test a withdrawal larger than balance to see if it’s possible at all.
That’s all any financial record is. What do you think your bank teller is looking at if not numbers on a screen and a database. Its all effing numbers on a screen. The point is whether the numbers on the screen are honest and accurate.
Who cares? You told the lady to withdraw her money and you weren’t talking about monopoly money.
Meaningless comments will not get any answer from me. Check post #982 once again, and don’t derail.
In between nit picking and taking potshots at each other, is it at all possible the focus of posts and posters could return to the subject at hand ???
The phrase, as coined by Owen Platt and used as the title for his book is actually “JUST Numbers on a Screen” where the word “JUST” is used as an an adverb meaning:
“simply; only; no more than.
synonyms: only, merely, simply, but, nothing but, no more than;”
In other words, the phrase “numbers on a screen” when used in connection with fraudulent opportunities is intended to indicate there are “only” numbers on a screen, “nothing more than” numbers on a screen, “nothing but” numbers on a screen
In fact, by utilizing the most commonly used “HYIP” managing program, GoldCoders Script, it is entirely possible (and normal) for a ponzi / pyramid to be run exactly like an online game IOW, with little or no relationship to the “real” world, as in: the game runs to a set of predetermined parameters chosen by the script owner and not by “normal” accounting practices.
little…sure. None….i doubt it. The financial world is too interconnected.
I found the book you mentioned on Amazon. Its old and out of print, only three reviews. Here is one of them….
So, LRM I am glad that you found the book engaging.
I am writing my own book and coincidentally its called Just Numbers on a Screen also ( also: adverb; in addition; too; besides)
Its the fascinating story of how a bank teller determines whether she can pay a check presented to her that is made out to cash (a withdrawal).
Amazingly enough she looks at computer screen, reads the customers cash balance thereon and accordingly pays or does not pay the check. Its riveting and its so “real world” it will make you forget green screens were ever invented.
The current subject at hand is that people should try to get money OUT of the system, not put more money IN.
OneCoin is already showing some symptoms of being “low on cash”, e.g. a failed withdrawal to ewallet plus some meaningless BS from support — quoting a standard PayPal error message about “incorrect bank details”.
It may be that they’re only testing some “withdrawal problems” before they really get some — “test it in small scale first before using it in larger scale”. But it will still be a bad idea to put more money IN.
They still are not low on cash, just high on “cash out demands”. To make it as hard as possible to cash out is of course common in every mlm company.
I thought you knew that Onecoin is in education business. tokens are free bonus for free.
watch the fourth video (no value):
youtube.com/channel/UCAo7jAnXUNYKvdpx69B9kMw/videos
I showed you new fields and I made it clear that was made for more failed transactions. Maybe some info was wrong.
Don’t forget that the main income are new accounts/upgrading. So if people don’t get bonuses for that work they will stop doing it.
Based on the premise I have been advancing it should not be possible.
Not even LRM’s ‘predetermined parameters” and off the shelf hyip scripts should not allow withdrawals greater than a person’s cash balance… for to do so would be a sure way of accelerating the collapse of the scheme.
Splitbarometer up 2% to 89%. It was showing 26thAug-6Sep 87%, so 2% in 12 days!! WOW!
Why not have “close to the split promotion” for months. Then the amount of new accounts is twice as high as normally.
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=883633585063796&id=822713397822482&substory_index=0
test your iq… what comes next? (or at least should come)
26.12 20.3 14.6 …?
I have no idea about where you feel you have been “advancing”? The only thing I have noticed is that you have derailed completely in your last few comments. It isn’t the first time that has happened.
Ben’s post #994 indicates that it wasn’t about “withdrawals larger than balance”, but they have made it more difficult for people to withdraw cash from the system.
Derailing is typically about that you create some new type of “dispute” about something all by yourself = you’re the only one arguing it.
Then, either have not been paying attention or you are unable to understand. i suspect its both.
You posted a theory about “withdrawals larger than balance”. It wasn’t confirmed. You have posted other theories too, e.g. “not low on cash”.
The problem is that you mostly have been discussing your own theories with yourself, and you haven’t posted any conclusions to them. So you can post it now if you don’t want to hear jokes about it later.
“Low on cash”
Withdrawals will fail if OneCoin is “low on cash”, e.g. because of too high withdrawal demand + too little money coming in from the outside.
The “money” people have in cash accounts can’t fix a “low on cash” problem, it will require money from the outside. Making it more difficult to withdraw money can be a symptom of “low on cash”.
“Max withdrawal <= money invested”
The only supply of money has been the money paid IN from the outside by the investors themselves. That will be the limit for withdrawals.
Money doesn’t “grow” or “multiply” inside the system. The total amount available for withdrawal will never be higher than what investors have paid in. And the “pool of money” has already been heavily drained for cash.
I knew, but I don’t call them “education packages”. It will only create a lot of confusion.
It isn’t very common. It’s common for Ponzi schemes near a collapse.
It will make it harder to recruit new investors if they make it more difficult to withdraw money, so most schemes will pay in time for as long as possible.
It will reduce the number of new investors and reduce reinvestments.
and earlier you wrote
WHAT THE HELL? Why are you trying to “educate” what you are calling them? We do not really care!!!
100% know that they sell education packages. So when I wrote how much they have sold education packages for, you was (as always) the only one questioning and educating us what people should call them. And later you wrote that you knew!! +RIDICULOUS QUESTIONS!
Should we call everything in this thread the same way you do? Stop that education now! 50% of your posts here are that kind of education.
Did I wrote paying in time? I just mentioned that they don’t want to turn everything in the account that generate cash to happen fast.
In onecoin, if you have money in cash account it’s not difficult to withdraw that. But converting everything “valuable” in the account into cash is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
And this is common in mlm ponzi.
But I understand your point and that is correct.
is the reason you keep repeating this because you have nothing else to say?
No, I’m making sure that I am clear while you are the vague one. 🙂
But I don’t really have anything more to say. We have mostly been discussing YOUR “new ideas” most of the time for 150 or 200 posts. Most of them have been too vague or too far from reality to have any relevance.
So I don’t really have anything new to add to the discussion.
From my POV, those two questions were quite normal, necessary to make sure we were talking about the same thing.
“I don’t call them education packages” is related to that people don’t really buy them like that. Education isn’t the primary function.
From my POV, what people call those packages isn’t really important as long as they’re talking about the same thing.
this was the old:
So you who like talking about bank accounts a lot…
What could this mean? They used the old one for almost a year.
It doesn’t need to mean anything.
They have changed name from ONECOIN LIMITED to One Coin Ltd.?
I see it as relatively normal for a Ponzi scheme to use multiple bank accounts / company names / geographical jurisdictions.
Ltd is the recognized abbreviation for Limited (it is not a name change.)
The relevant point here is the bank account Onecoin has used to collect money for a year has been closed and a new account opened at another bank… not that the entity name has been abbreviated (which is clerical in nature and not substantive.)
However closing, or being forced to close (?) a bank account may be significant.
Its common for businesses to use multiple banks but it is also not uncommon for a bank to refuse to continue doing business with a company if money laundering or other illegal activity is suspected.
Both the Zeek and Telexfree ponzi/pyramids had difficulty maintaining banking relationships after their initial expansion, and neither of them is still in business today and both were targeted for shutdown by the authorities.
From an investors point of view this bank closure is a big red flag.
I thought so. The reason why I’m wondering is because they SUDDENLY stopped using the old one. There are tens of www-pages that show how to buy packages/pay for it. And many of them show still the old one.
onecoincryptocurrency.wordpress.com/how-to-join/
onecoin.guru/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Wire-Instructions-july2015.pdf
So what happens if somebody pays to the old account? I guess many people have done so. This news came 4th Sep. That was very strange because no popup informed when you log in, like this example today:
Passport ID?? I have talken to some financial people and they never heard about a passport Id required in banks. And many people do not have passports.
The banks and cashing out has worked fine for a year (maybe not the credit cards) but this news is very strange. (new bank, passport ID)
Good question and one not easily answered. In part it may depend on how payment was tendered, whether by ACH, personal check, money order, bank transfer or other.
It surprised me when I read that the Zeekler had uncashed checks worth tens of millions of dollars in their administrative offices. The checks were in boxes, stuffed in drawers, piled on the cabinets.
I imagine it was a scene of disaray and chaos. The checks were worth millions but could not be cashed because Zeek had no bank left that would process them, and yet day after day payments flooded into the offices.
People naturally tried to stop payment or reverse transfers when they heard the SEC had intervened but it was not always possible.
The Zeekler receiver spent considerable time sorting it out with banks all over the country/world and many people were unhappy when they found out that checks became property of the estate when tendered, not when cashed as they expected. Other forms of payment were treated differently.
What happens in Dubai? Why passport numbers? I don’t know.
Juha Parhiala – By far the biggest liar in Onecoin….But people in Onecoin are happy to hear such crap that no-one can really verify.
1. Only 130K outside China, 300K In China(?). The flag counter shows only 430K. And I know people that have tens of accounts.
5000 daily? that would mean 1,7M. last month it was 1200/day. Now before the split 2500. But for Juha? Let’s make it BIG.
2. Oh yeah baby 😀 JUHA JUHA JUHA!!!! So who paid them the 285M? Or do you mean millionaires in Onecoins? That’s a huge difference.
3. And that’s you? You have 6 tycoons and now you maxing out (35.000$) every week?? That is a lot of sales every week.
4. Not so difficult when you are not verifying the user after registering.
5. Billion dollars? Of what, In pretended value of Onecoins?
6. Does the value of Onecoin increase every week? So far it increased only twice since 15.6? And the value is 100% manipulated and with no value at all outside the network.
7. Buying Onecoins means getting? 400.000 with 300.000.000 onecoins increasing 50.000.000 every month. So by joining they get a piece of a billion?
It had an “Event Tour” in late August, including “OneCoin Oslo Event” on August 28. I haven’t found much information about it, only some invitations.
The “Oslo Event” was planned to be held on a sightseeing boat / yacht / similar type of solution. That usually means 30-60 people (if they want to have a private event rather than a guided sightseeing tour).
Maybe they know something in Bulgaria that we don’t know?
“Nr of new members” last 4 weeks in Bulgaria:
+4
+4
-24
-29
left 712
s18.postimg.org/pbq1trpnd/BUL.png
latest stats: benzmith.tumblr.com
I was told there is a Diamond Tycoon and Taj Mahal packages now?
Diamond – 12,950, value 17,360, and Taj 29,400, value 46,267?
That is a lot of money to put out before a possible shut down? Guess this is what happens in a ponzi scheme?
Ben, you are up on this stuff. Is this info correct I was given?
So difficult to mention in what currency?
If a new package is coming it will be called “Elite” for 25000-30000€. Or maybe 100.000€ as Tommi Vuorinen mentioned in Moscow?
s30.postimg.org/ixobxqs75/elite.jpg
Oh, don’t know in what currency. I will ask when I talk to the person again.
What does someone do if they want to get their money out and don’t have a passport? Why a passport?
The cash leaving the network is never good (for them). This passport thing will create some difficulties to people cashing out and taking more time than before.
Why now? A month ago they didn’t care if it took 1 or 3 weeks. But it is apparently a difference now.
For me the Onecoin cash account is no more “real cash account”. Maybe it is still working but I wouldn’t feel safe anymore to keep my cash there. 10.9 most people can sell 100% more onecoins.
Onecoins from the last split from June are available for sell now. There were 2 promotions in June (split+mining promotion) and a huge amount of new members who joined.
They are able now in Septemper to sell their onecoins as well.
After the split new accounts daily will drop 60% or more. Less new money for Ruja. But more and more people can sell more onecoins at a higher price.
Let’s see when the next jump up from 1.85€/1.95€ will happen. At least everybody is expecting that.
By the way Ruja is cheating with the spread. The REAL price is 1.840. I have made all my selling at 1.850++ but always got 1.84X as a final price.
I wouldn’t be surprised if all buying were at 1.86€. WHAT A GREEDY FAKE WOMAN SHE REALLY IS!
I knew we finally would agree on that.
The account is the same as it ever was, except now you don’t believe the check will cash…. and you are probably right.
They want it so they can “pretend” they are satisfying the internationally required “know your customer” banking regulations.
Leaving the question of “why” they want it, if you do send them a copy of your passport or your passport details, you will have given somebody you don’t know a copy of your passport which can be used in all sorts of illegal situations.
The account is the same, the balance stored in the account is the same (same type, not same amount). But withdrawals have been made more difficult. We have also seen some failed withdrawals.
Was wondering why Juha said that the name Onecoin cannot b used in any situation on the internet including Facebook.
youtube.com/watch?t=10m&v=0-pIB0EgTtw&feature=youtu.be
Sounds like the usual Ponzi pseudo-compliance narrative:
“Stop describing our business model online, you’ll attract regulatory attention!”
Doesn’t work, because a Ponzi scheme needs to be advertised by name to continue to solicit new investment. Plus they wind up annoying existing investors.
Sidenote: That video is over six hours long, but the call itself was 12 minutes. Someone at OneCoin needs to learn video editing basics…
A lot of scams use this tactic. Zeek Rewards did, TVI Express did, Wazzub did.
1) A whole bunch of documents from all over the world… identity documents. Imagine what a bunch ID thieves can do with it
2) It cuts down the number of people they need to pay out, as they can arbitrarily kick out people “your papers are not in order!”
3) Delay… as it gives them time to do something else (think of some other excuses) as this will take up MONTHS.
I wrote already many times he is offering ALWAYS the best prices. Maybe a birthday present from Ruja?
1000 starter gift codes? What a nice “gift” to other Onecoin package promoters showing his own wallet is most important…what a true (fuc….) leader he is!
s2.postimg.org/xlfjri4qh/juha.png
On one of their calls the miners were told to not say “buying education packages”, but to say “paying tuition”.
Bit of a pseudo-compliance move that, what when your investors are dropping thousands on OneCoin Ponzi points packages.
Latest news here in USA… is The Great Ruja has purchased a bank and spent a billion dollars on a gold mine. Onecoin is now going through the SEC to get licensed to be legal in the USA.
Who believes this Bulls#!t???
^^ Source?
Here is some guy pushing OneCoin & seems like a lot of bogus info.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts63Wv6RXj8
I think this may be the same guy who said Ruja spent a billion on a gold mine…. But can’t seem to find that info.
That guy was Ken Labine, one of the most active readers here. 🙂
He doesn’t post anything, but he makes some 20+ minutes videos showing the different OneCoin articles, other articles, activity level, users, etc.
Example, 28 minutes video, “worth watching” (1764 views):
youtube.com/watch?v=ngEIgtpj8Fo
He has 3 or 4 videos of the same type. I picked the most popular one.
“That guy is Ken Labine”?
Is he well connected to onecoin ? Would he have inside infor ? What is his back ground & is he creditable ?
I have no idea.
I simply clicked on the “User Profile” in the first video, and then I found the second one.
“One of the most active readers here” was based on that second video. He spent 28 minutes browsing through parts of this blog most people don’t know exist, e.g. page 206 in the list of articles (back in 2009). 🙂
Posting that second video had multiple functions:
1. It had some “entertainment value” for other people, e.g. as a “How do Canadians react to Behind MLM” parody.
2. It had some “marketing value”, a complete overview of this blog showing multiple types of articles.
3. He can’t complain “They won’t allow my posts”. He probably said all he wanted to say in that video.
Prior to investing in OneCoin Labine was promoting Five Dollar Funnel.
That should tell you about what kind of MLM opportunities he’s attracted to.
It had some entertainment value, e.g. “Four articles per day!”, “That guy does this for a living!”, and how he simply hated to bring in more advertising money from his own use (and yet he couldn’t restrict himself from looking at multiple articles for 28 minutes).
He also had some interesting theories about “the same person using multiple user profiles, discussing it with himself just to create some activity”. Anjali was listed, I was listed, K Chang was listed, Oz was listed among those “suspected user profiles”.
A bank and gold mine? Where did you find that? I will have to tell my friend’s friend who is in Onecoin.
Her friend doesn’t have a passport, so other than get one, I guess she won’t be able to get money out of Onecoin. Is that legal?
identity theft certainly would be.
Wow Labine is mostly about exposing the “guy” Ben Zmith, who he claims is running behindmlm.com. Labine is also the same who was on video from post 1026
Yes, I bought this site from the profits I have made with Onecoin.
Too bad Lebine can’t buy higher IQ. It will be fun to watch his videos next year, my favorite I think.
NEWS FLASH…….
Ken Labine has confirmed that rumors about one coin are true: youtu.be/Bl0uYJeQ_pI
This is Ponzi BS until the name of the bank is disclosed and verified.
Ditto 100,000 businesses. It’s all lip-service until it’s verified.
Right now it’s sounding like a third-party merchant network OneCoin are trying to plug into, rather than an actual 100,000 or so individual merchants expressing interest in OneCoin.
If OneCoin are still around mid next year, the fallout between merchants not wanting to get involved in a Ponzi points scheme should be interesting to watch.
Typical of Ponzi culture, a lot of promises but not much substance.
But OZ, Ken Labine confirmed it was true, and he was so excited about the news… So it must be true.
Why would OneCoin lie…. They were truthful about the forbe’s cover – remember !!!
Your sarcasm is best left for a video performance, Rockfish. 🙂 It works rather poorly on the “Interwebs” via text. 😀
Send Ken Labine an e-mail and he will believe anything beyond stupid.
The actual number who want to accept Onecoins: 0 (ZERO). As you already know Ruja doesn’t accept the full value of Onecoins.
Buying tycoon will cost you 10000 Onecoins, Casino will give you only play money.
If the merchants would accept Onecoins they simply want the value in Dollar or Euro to be guaranteed. So doing that someone has to buy the Onecoins.
The Merchants won’t buy and keep onecoins.
The people in Onecoin has only one goal. To convert Onecoins to real currency by any way possible. And that is a huge problem when the onecoin currency is not backed by anything and there are no real buyers of onecoins.
So Ruja will tell you the price and everyone should believe and accept that? OH YEAH!!
I have friends n onecoin that have received A LOT of cash from new recruits (gift codes).
They truly believe their coin is gonna b worth somethin n 12-18 months, but n the mean time they r enjoying the rewards of the MLM side of this venture.
In the future will onecoin b worth somethin outside of the MLM? For their sakes I really hope so. It’s easy to believe when cash is being thrown at u 🙂
I hear Sebastian greenwood is suppose to b n Vegas and possibly ruja herself. Skeptics have said she’s not brave enough to enter the US, but I say one has to know what fear is to b brave.
That was about the July 4th “official launch in the U.S.”.
OneCoin is a Ponzi scheme like any other Ponzi schemes = a fraudulent investment scheme. People can make a profit short term, but I don’t think they should expect any long term profit based on “growth of the investment”.
Ponzi schemes use money coming in from new investors to pay the old ones (money IN from the outside → money OUT to the outside). They will have problem paying money OUT if money coming in < money going out.
So your friends should carefully look out for reduced recruitment, reduced reinvestment, increased withdrawal activity — and for payment problems in general (delays, new rules, new banks, failed withdrawals, etc.).
When your friends sold Gift Codes, the money ended up in THEIR bank accounts rather than in OneCoin’s = it didn’t increase OneCoin’s ability to pay money OUT later (the pool of money didn’t grow).
Agreed! That’s why I chose to pass this time. Been on the losing end too many times to promote something as long term when I don’t believe it is.
To post 1046 M Norway:
Agreed! That’s why I chose to pass this time. Been on the losing end too many times to promote something as long term when I don’t believe it is.
How will this affect onecoin?
zdnet.com/article/bitcoin-an-official-commodity-us-trade-commission/
People who cashed out last week, still no money so far.
So far 5 days was normal. Now 10-11 days…No cash! Others complaining too…
s2.postimg.org/3w8yanm49/cashout.png
s10.postimg.org/f1yispt9l/juha.png
i.imgur.com/EHxZdKT.png
Is that n the US? If not, what country?
I totally get how the mlm/Ponzi is already suffering this way n other countries but not sure bout US.
Was just curious how this news would affect their “crypto currency”. I can only speculate that bitcoin turning commodity would NOT b good for onecoin, eventhough they r pushing it as good news.
Regulations will not b to their advantage.
It won’t.
1. OneCoin don’t market BitCoin, they market Ponzi points.
2. Register under US law? Hahahaha. These jokers are claiming they’re processing tens of millions of dollars a week…
Juha Parhiala has listed himself in the sixth place for “MLM Top Earners” on businessforhome.org — with a monthly income of $625,000.
I don’t really believe him. I have seen income statements from Ponzi scheme participants before, and they will usually include all the “monopoly money” too.
US Internal Revenue Service and US Commodities Future Exchange have now both declared Bit Coin (and all other cryptocurrencies) to be property (a commodity) ….not a currency.
Recent case in California.
techcrunch.com/2015/09/18/reiterating-the-irs-a-u-s-government-agency-declares-bitcoin-a-commodity/
Not that we didn’t already know so, but investment in property + MLM = unregistered securities ahoy!
Correction…the IRS and the The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)
Strange things with Bulgaria numbers: 1 account left.
benzmith.tumblr.com
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g7Pv-BsWwf_N96Qj_UGxngumHWxIqCg4kTOaAh6y5Jo/edit?usp=sharing
Maybe by removing Bulgarian customers they can be assured that Bulgarian authorities wont raid Onecoins offices.
OneCoin pumper, Tom McMurrain has gone silent on his Facebook page for the past two weeks. Interesting since prior to that he was posting a dozen or more items about OneCoin DAILY.
I wonder how many people followed him into OneCoin with their hard earned money and are now left wondering if this is the next Flexkom.
For those who don’t understand the Flexkom reference, Tom was pumping that deal a year or so ago.
From past experience, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot of complaints filed by people who invested in OneCoin. And with those complaints will come the inevitable regulatory investigation.
I heard from a guy that was at a meeting in Juhas house in Thailand that Onecoin is closing down USA!!
Maby that is why Tom dosent talk about Onecoin on his Facebook anymore !!!!!
that is strange, since glenn smith, a top onecoin recruiter of onecoin, USA announced on his FB page on sept 10, 2015:
@ Anjali
So, it is not strange at all as the timelines are the same.
Tom McMurrain made this post to his Facebook account on September 10 at 8:01pm:
THIS WAS TOM’S LAST ONECOIN POST.
RUH ROH!
Glen Smith is still working OneCoin Full-Throttle though. So, I see your point Anjali.
What does Tom know that Glenn doesn’t?
Lee O Shea, another deluded OneCoin f*ckwit, has been very quiet on it, considering he was posting multiple times a day….
but they are and I quote, ‘the first company ever in financial history to have 1 Billion Usd in sales in one year’.
Tom McMurrain is posting again. Looks as tho they r putting $ back into the company because rocket pay and other payment processors r working.
As far as miners being able to withdraw funds because gift codes r not needed, I have no idea.
And Juha is promoting his presence in Vegas n Oct so I doubt he was saying they r closing USA down. Anyone know about withdrawals n the USA?
4rd EU-Southeast Europe Summit
hazliseconomist.com/en/event/Fourth_EU_Southeast_Europe_Summit/agenda
s15.postimg.org/bcwk8tvgb/ruja_expert.png
So she founded Onecoin..and that’s it? Nothing about being the second biggest Cryptocurrency? A billion first year sales?
Very interesting to hear the speach… and if she will participate in the following discussion 😛
So what have these in common where Ruja is involved?
-Bussinesswoman Of the Year: Normally, one would get a prize and tell you why if you win something. Ruja? She had to PAY to “attend”
-Forbes: You usually also get paid for “the time being interviewed” – Ruja? No Interview. She wrote it, send a file as pdf to Forbes and PAID THEM to publish it.
-Fourth EU-South East Europe Summit: The speakers are invited and fairly well paid. But Ruja is there as a “sponsor” and because SHE PAID FOR IT
——————————————————-
But, In what way will Onecoin publish this? They will try to show everyone that she will speak among other top names… because she is also a top “business woman”. They won’t mention too much that she bought sponsorship only to speak there for couple of minutes.
——————————————————-
Will we ever see Ruja as a real economist speaker? Can’t anybody see her potenial?
We have seen similar activities before, e.g. Phil Ming Xu (WCM777) was a 10 minute “keynote speaker” on the SVIEF 2013 event, between Al Gore and Jay Vijayan, CIO, Tesla Motors.
The fourth keynote speaker was Steve Wosniak, Apple co-founder.
Evening keynote speakers were Randi Zuckerberg (Facebook, Zuckerberg Media) and Vaughan Smith (VP Facebook).
SVIEF = Silicon Valley Technology Innovation & Entrepreneurship Forum.
He also paid for a Platinum sponsorship, similar to what Ruja has paid for. The only difference is the type of event, SVIEF is primarily focused on technology investments USA / China.
WCM777 was shut down less than 6 months after the SVIEF event.
200 € a ticket for this show…5000 tickets SOLD OUT!
youtube.com/channel/UCAo7jAnXUNYKvdpx69B9kMw/videos
So people went to Macao…. and got see the price predictions charts again…
onecoin still can’t be used. Not a single merchant announced. So no change at all.
Some new level 1-3 of Oneacademy produced. But nobody really carried.
Maybe they will teach harder to not sell Onecoin too early. That’s not so easy done when using Onecoins is still impossible.
Best galleries you can find tonight…
Macao-CROWD
postimg.org/gallery/lmiw2fso/
Macao-RUJA SEB JUHA
postimg.org/gallery/2kuhhvm1c/
Macao-RANKING
postimg.org/gallery/1ywqj7m8i/
Macao-STAGE-RUJA
postimg.org/gallery/glk9uc5o/
Macao-STAGE-SEBASTIAN
postimg.org/gallery/3gqq6lxj2/
How long can they drag out & milk this split thing? It is just ridiculous that anyone would believe that there is a meter that is controlled by “NO” outside stimulus can affect the value of anything.
Big Rujie Mamma decides when to throw the switch and all her cult followers are in amazement.
CRAZY
My friend’s friend is furious about the split that she was told was to happen on Tuesday but a surprise to everyone that it happened on Monday instead and may have missed out on a split.
People are locked out of their accounts, can’t login even. She had signed some people up and right now, it is one big mess from what I am being told.
Does anyone, like Ben have any info on this?
(Some of the) New updates from the Macao event
Aw what, nothing about the OneCoin banks or US registration? Pooh pooh…
Now it’s working. But all day long it was working like on 90s.
And they announced some military class cloud yesterday. Yeah!
Please vote! Let the Forbes War come to an end!
Looks like some r concerned about xcoinx.com says it’s down for nonpayment.
Also some pretty pissed miners cause they couldn’t mine the split right away (too many people online) and now the difficulty went from 20-1 to 25-1.
The miners I know are still racking in the money big time! I know their hearts are in the right place and they truly believe this is legit.
It would be hard to turn away with the cash they are bringing in. I pray it all works out for them.
What kind of laws and regulations does China have concerning Ponzi schemes?
If it’s big enough, death penalty.
ponzitracker.com/main/2013/5/18/death-sentence-for-chinese-woman-convicted-of-70-million-pon.html
I know very little about China…
my friend is still waiting for his 985€ (1000-15€ fee) since 10Sep.
RUJA! GIVE PEOPLE THEIR MONEY! last week 25000 new account so they are hardly out of money!
s14.postimg.org/lzqp4x5dd/nomoney.jpg
Since the Big guys knows that money is finished for Rujja the new people that gets in pays them Directly in the hand and get a gift code!!!!
That is wy the company dont get any money for the new members and cant send cash to the people that asked for a transfer!!!!!!!
We will see how long it takes before it brakes down totaly 🙁
The money talk continues:
NOLINK://s22.postimg.org/5uqjo4qoh/nomoney2.png
NOLINK://s22.postimg.org/po2ngu429/nomoney1.png
Juha Parhiala’s comment is very idiotic:
Chris. You just cant grab money away from the company without doing anything. You gotta recommend two tycoons or one premium package to qualify for your withdrawal
So unless you get other investors to pump money into OneCoin, you can’t withdraw your monopoly money ROIs…
Uh sure, nothing suss going on there.
Now it’s an outright pyramid scheme: you have to “refer people” in order to get your reward.
CoinTelegraph was not impressed… back in May.
cointelegraph.com/news/114399/one-coin-much-scam-onecoin-exposed-as-global-mlm-ponzi-scheme
Well, things r imploding in the US. Not allowed to use the onecoin name at all. Vegas event postponed.
Ruja supposedly guaranteeing all expenses will b refunded including air (anxious to c where that goes). Leaders saying no regrets cause they have made more $ than ever before.
Wonder how the newbies r feeling right now? Not nearly as calm as those who got n early.
Purh reassuring everyone that their delayed withdrawals will prove successful… It’s been weeks, but hey, keep waiting. It will happen he says.
No one wants to use commissions for gift codes, just want their $. Guess they r not as confident now about bringing n new recruits. Go figure that.
Finnish police will decide before end of this month if they start criminal investigation or not. In that case they would propably arrest most selling sponsors.
source, please.
twitter.com/search?q=%40petterij%20%23onecoin&src=typd
Petteri Järvinen is a blogger, IT-expert, columnist etc.
fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petteri_J%C3%A4rvinen
– A quite unpopular name amongst the Finnish onecoinists. So I would say he’s very trustworthy 🙂
Terms and Conditions for Onecoin’s user agreement copied directly from dating service 15Winks.
source:
pjarvinen.blogspot.fi/2015/10/onecoin-kayttajasopimus-kopioitu.html
Nobody steals your BitCoin if you promote an MLM opportunity.
Either OneCoin is a legit cryptocurrency that belongs to the account-holder, or it’s Ponzi points under the control of OneCoin at all times.
Furthermore, “the authorities” don’t give a stuff if you breach OneCoin T&Cs. It is not illegal to cross-promote MLM opportunities and has nothing to do with them.
This is just more lies from OneCoin corporate.
Hi, im a onecoin miners, indeed money you invested will never ne refunded but being a member of onecoin for 9 months was amazing. I already earned from it and no regret.
@Ann
You didn’t mine anything, you paid $x and received a greater than $x ROI.
That ROI was funded by subsequent investors, making you a Ponzi scammer.
Any? Are there any Onecoin copycats yet so far?
No you’re not. There is no onecoin mining. It has no publically accessible blockchain that can be audited, and any transaction can be CENTRALLY REVERSED (i.e. they can undo any transactions), so it’s not distributed. It’s not even a cryptocurrency in the proper sense.
How long does it take to “file” with the SEC?
Not 6 months+
No one in the US can use the onecoin name until the SEC filing is finalized. Vegas event cancelled, only top leaders still going.
What was the name of that Johnny Mathis song ??
Oh, yes,
“The Twelfth of Never”
SEC has nothing to do with patent and trademark office – who is the oversight for such things.
They did, however, register the name which is what prevents the unauthorized use of it.
tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4810:ynjuv5.2.1
The name is already in use and has been trademarked with the US Patent and Trademark Office.
On the other hand there is no evidence that a securities registration has been undertaken by Onecoin or approved by the SEC.
The likelihood that investments branded as Onecoin are illegal is pretty much a given, so yeah, keeping one’s mouth shut about “onecoin” as an investment is not a bad idea.
I just did a search for any filings with the United States SEC ( Securities & Exchange Comission ) oneCoin said they filed & then had to refile because of changes in how cyber-currency is considered…..
Search results show no fileings within the last 4 years????
That’s because there aren’t any SEC filings, nor will there be.
Registering Ponzi schemes with the SEC = kaboom.
I just came across the document from Germany. The law firm has approving some legal issues regarding OneCoin activity.
They say it is legal… BUT, the subject itself is explained in the weird way. Can anyone translate it into the regular English so we all would be able to understand that?
The document can be found here: dropbox.com/s/m6t8rzm7ykas8df/Legal_Opinion_Germany.pdf?dl=0
The weirdness is related to that he has focused on a specific law, so he hasn’t really analysed OneCoin as a business Venture / Ponzi scheme / pyramid scheme.
The primary component of OneCoin — why people join and invest money, etc. — is the system where tokens can “grow in value” and then be used to pay for mining of onecoins, and onecoins will “grow in value” each month and can be reinvested.
The recruitment system is a secondary component. He focused solely on that part. He compared how similar OneCoin was to pyramid scheme rules, e.g. whether people needed to recruit other people to get paid. And they don’t need to recruit anyone, so he concluded that it couldn’t be a pyramid scheme.
In normal legal logic, we must identify all relevant facts first — and then we can find relevant laws. We cannot start with a law (like he did), and then look at a selection of facts.
People do that when they already have decided which outcome they want, e.g. if the client have asked him specifically to write something in support of the program.
Thank you M Norway for explanation. Can you also explain in the simple English the main paragraph from that document:
I only had a quick look at it in my first answer. I recognized the METHOD rather immediately. I didn’t really need to study the details.
That quoted part seems to be the text of a law exactly as it has been written (but translated to English) — §16 Abs. UWG [Section 16(2) of German Act against Unfair Competition] (advertising incurring criminal liability).
I see that one as a decoy. He’s trying to distract people. 🙂
He has also focused on promotional pyramid scheme law — Rule 14 of something — “creating the impression that compensation can be obtained solely or primarily from introducing other participants into the scheme (scheme with snowball effect or pyramidal structure)”.
I see that one as the main paragraph.
In OneCoin, investors can earn a profit from the investment itself = they don’t need to recruit anyone. So by that standard OneCoin isn’t primarily a pyramid scheme. 🙂
Has anyone watched the so call speech of Ruji-mama at the EU southeastern Europe banking summit? Is it Legit?
She paid for stage-time, how can it be legit?
OneCoin were a “platinum sponsor” for the event IIRC.
Tom McMurrain has stopped pumping OneCoin 7-8 times daily on his Facebook page. Someone finally called him on this only to have their post deleted the next day.
I wonder how many people invested their money due to his pumping? When will Tom admit to the issues with OneCoin?
UPDATE: It appears that Tom is now pumping a new digital coin opportunity!
so, one coin can be called a ponzi/pyramid hybrid.
IMO a ponzi/pyramid scheme will crash faster, because the participants who recruit, will have to recruit enough new participants and bring in more funds to pay the returns of the nonrecruiting ponzi participants too.
the non recruiting ponzi participants are equivalent to ‘free loaders’ who except for their initial investments, don’t really help the scheme along.
well, tom mcmurrain certainly has strong reflexes. not a moment wasted! 🙂
hey, where is behindmlm’s star onecoin reporter these days? i hope ‘ben’ has not received any legal threats.
I watched the youtube 12 minute speech at EU-Southeast Europe Summit. It has an official sounding name, but I don’t think it is a serious event.
But, even if it is, the first 10 minutes of her speech was just about how people in developing countries need a new way to get money, then 2 minutes about Bitcoin possibilities, ending with 10 seconds of “My dream is that my company and onecoin can help”.
Anyone listening would still be left clueless about onecoin.
Actually, researching the speakers and agenda on the Economist website, it was a serious event. Just the fellow in camouflage outfit taking selfies with her, thought it was just her people in the crowd.
After I did watch it. My thoughts were: for it being billed as a high class, distinguished summit, that there was a lot of casual dressed people there.
It’s much like that “US China Silicon Valley” event touted by Phil Ming Xu where he kept harping he’s keynoting with Al Gore.
My issue is that, if she only had 10 minutes to speak, why not say something about the product. Instead of a general speech about how developing countries have needs. Everybody knows that.
It wasn’t so much about promoting Onecoin. It was mainly about exploiting the event.
There are now several youtube videos showing off how the great leader and founder of Onecoin gave a lecture to some very influential persons in Europe.
A fun fact: Ruja emphasized the fact how it is very difficult for people in developing countries to get a bank account because of lack of documents for personal identification.
Cryptocurrencies should of course solve this according to Ruja. That sure is quite controversial to the fact how Onecoin is very needy for member’s passports.
@ Onecapita – Good point about OneCoin telling investors they need their passports in order to withdraw funds. Then, she tells everyone (with a straight face) that OneCoin was the perfect solution for people in developing countries.
Red flag? Well, of course, but this isn’t the first revelation that OneCoin just might be the next Zeek Rewards type money-game.
I hope the regulators go after the pumpers who are hyping the investment side of the OneCoin model. At the very least, they could be found guilty of selling unregistered securities.
Any thoughts?
SWISCOIN!
NOLINK://www.swiscoin.com/Packages.aspx
NOLINK://www.swiscoin.com/
99% the same as Onecoin…is this a kind of joke?
Who is the owner? GLENN “FULL-THROTTLE” SMITH??
NOLINK://postimg.org/gallery/2m407f6om/
NOLINK://www.swiscoin.com/SCPlan/SwisCoin%20Compensation%20Plan.pdf
NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4J9sYEz8Us
the english language used on some slides in the youtube video, is grammatically incorrect. eg:
this suggests that glenn smith of the US, May Not be behind swiscoin. maybe swiscoin is a european creation?
NOLINK://postimg.org/gallery/2pwmbsn7w/
NOLINK://s17.postimg.org/cj3ncnyzj/image.jpg
11.020$ to 12.224.000$ in three years!
this is……..great? WOW?
Glenn gets paid to well by Ruja 🙂 So hardly he will switch the sides.. At least this year.
I have noticed big similarities with another “mlm” cryptocurrency page. The same owners?
NOLINK://swiscoin.com/Default.aspx
NOLINK://bitclubnetwork.com/
and both sites share and use this:
NOLINK://goanimate.com
So, gentlemen, any updates on Ruja’s bank? Where does it exist?
Few days hampering onecoinoids with this question and didn’t get any clear answer. Anyone here knows about that?
hermes bank denied having anything to do with ruja’s onecoin.
onecoin affiliates have dismissed the claims of onecoin owning a bank, as a ill-informed ‘rumor’.
rujamama has kept her hotredlips sealed on this issue 🙂
The story was believable enough, e.g. in the fact that Hermes Bank had a representative office in Bulgaria. Hermes also seemed to be familiar with OneCoin. But they denied that there had been any negotiations.
behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/onecoin-affiliates-lying-about-hermes-bank-acquisition/
Got a question. Could the onecoin coin actually be worth something one day, making the MLM part of no significance in the future?
These people really believe that once it goes “public” the coin will sky rocket. They have many putting all their hope in the coin and not recruiting, therefore not gaining commissions to trade for codes.
A cybercurrency has no intrinsic value. It’s even worse than “fiat currency” which is backed by the power and reputation of a nation (and its fiscal policy).
Chances of OneCoin worth something is on the order of we all got swallowed by a hypermass tomorrow.
The idea that all these currencies want to be the next Bitcoin with huge marketshare.
The problem is its not about the currency but the cash they take in while doing so.
It always going to be bigger better later and so far no digital currency has broken out showing that it is worth anything outside of its own network of members.
I would not bet on it.
@SMH
The general public aren’t going to buy into a closed altcoin pegged to the artificial value of Ponzi investment.
NOLINK://www.onecoin.eu/news/details/onecoin_cloud
Greenwood-the ultimate salesman!!! 😀
Buy cloud for 3030€ -you will get more monopoly money (50€ in tokens)
So why they don’t accept Onecoin as a payment???
For mr Greenwood…it’s only € good for him! He donated 400.000 Onecoins at the Ruja’s Birthday Party.
NOLINK://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FRIgUP8QNWa0zOsMTh6JHlvIBiDFESVXbEBmLiOy6_w/edit?usp=sharing
See how fast they can sell thei onecoins.
If the price goes up I will update the calc. (=it will take much longer to sell them)
In my opinion the best video so far! Ruja’s real skills in economy!
NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsfPdHGX8Dw
Interesting to read all the comments and information.
The way I see it is that nothing is really clear if it is a scam or not. If it would be a scam we would probably see lot’s of people complaining. I understand that this can still happen so time will tell the truth.
If time tells that it’s a scam then BehindMLM will have have even more credit in readers eye.
If it turns out that it isn’t a scam then the credibility of BehindMLM will probably crash. So it will surely be interesting to see what the future holds. 🙂
There’s nothing that proves it’s legitimate too.
Ponzi scheme victims don’t complain until company stops paying and victims got tired of excuses.
Let’s just say BehindMLM has been correct far more often than being wrong. You’re welcome to check how many scams checked here are still around. USFIA, ZeekRewards, WCM777, Zhurize, TelexFree…
By the time you see enough signs to convince you it’d be too late. But it’s your choice.
You missunderstand.
I get how Ponzi scams work. Like I said. Time will tell the truth.
Even if you have 99% right. In this particular case you have to consider that if you are wrong it will surely be something people will remind you of in the long run.
So it will surely be interesting to follow
@Mrno
Other than affiliate investment, OneCoin has no other revenue stream.
Honestly, whose money do you think Ruha is withdrawing each month?
It’s a straight-forward Ponzi points business model, the same as Zeek used.
I’m not trying to convince you or say you are wrong. Just stating that if you are wrong this will surely affect you guys.
All the information I have read are either comments or statements but nothing is really close to any real evidence.
We would probably see a different tone if anything would be backed up with real evidence. Let’s put it this way. Would any information you have hold in a court?
Still not saying you are wrong just trying to get facts.
If a compensation plan is wholly known and you call it out, you cannot be wrong.
Sure. Subpoena OneCoin for records and show that they have no retail revenue, ergo affiliate payments (based on Ponzi points) are simply new affiliate funds being used to pay off existing affiliates.
This is exactly what regulators will do when the time comes.
OneCoin’s business model is not a mystery. There are no unknowns here, it’s Ponzi fraud. Those are the facts as they stand.
If that is the case why aren’t anyone taking them to court. Any EU authority.
I’ve followed your articles and months go by, week and still nothing. The police in Finland investigated OneCoin. What happened there?
With all that overwhelming proof why hasn’t it been stopped?
You guys have the answers so please enlighten me.
EU is pretty hopeless when it comes to Ponzi regulation. They’re often well late to the party by the time they decide to move in.
From memory Finnish police are announcing the status of their investigation mid-week.
Ok so this week we will get information if this is a scam or not ?
Understand that lots of people whom have either joined or not are interested and if you have evidence they would probably take it further. Important here are fact and not comments or statements.
No investigation.
If you have any information or links to the findings of the Finnish police please share them.
Dayum. That’s another big fat fail for the EU then.
Not really. The cycle of Ponzi fraud continues. We’ve been pointing them out for years here.
The victim pool appears smaller when a big scam goes bust (TelexFree the last one), then some unknowns work out a way to twist an existing Ponzi model and off we go again.
Ok so to be clear here.
No investigation from the Finnish police.
No real evidence.
This is the reason why it all continues?
Did I get this correct?
Without seeing an official source, I suspect it’s rather OneCoin aren’t bsaed in Finland and don’t conduct banking operations there.
They use shady financial channels in EU/Asia (specifics are not disclosed by OneCoin).
There’s a reason OneCoin don’t operate (officially) in the US. And that hogwash about SEC registration has been going on for a year or so.
It takes 5 minutes to file forms with the SEC.
Damn, you’re completely correct.
I think you should sell the farm, cash in your parents’ retirement funds, max out your credit cards and buy as many OneCoins as it takes to corner the market.
Just remember us when you’re living it up on the proceeds.
OZ lets do a live hangout together 🙂
Il be nice i promise
Ive wasted to much time fighting you time for us to chat 🙂
ps can you confirm how many onecoin you have yourself?
Also stop talking about sec you sound like a idiot..
coindesk.com/cftc-ruling-defines-bitcoin-and-digital-currencies-as-commodities/
Scroll to bottom you see||
Always some idiot with a stupid comment.
I’m trying to get facts.
@littleroundman your answer really states what most of us think. When pressured no real evidence appears. Just statements and comments.
I’m happy to read, listen to any real information you guys have but putting a stupid answer like that shows how serious this crusade is. I would honestly join your fight but that can only be done having real evidence.
Ummn,
they are criminal fraudsters.
Their whole purpose is to ensure there are no verifiable “facts” available where it can be found by amateur blog writers or researchers
They lie, they forge, they fake – that’s why it’s called fraud.
Unless they are completely hopeless fraudsters, the only real “facts” you’ll find will be from reading the court documents if and when they get caught and prosecuted.
behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin-under-police-investigation-in-finland/
The original source is in Finnish.
So wednesday next week it is then.
Let’s see what the results are.
Here’s another piece of info … in a different thread.
I’m familiar with how to navigate on this website and how to find old information, but you can’t expect that from anyone. You must accept the fact that you came late to the table and only will get some “leftover pieces of information”.
The problem with this line of thought is you’re demanding “prove a negative”, however “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”.
And there are few facts to be had. Which does NOT prove it’s NOT a fraud.
As stated before, Ponzi schemes, by nature, are usually only revealed by its own collapse or outright law enforcement raid and freeze.
indeed yet you keep posting them. can you show anyone one of these mythical coins?
“Next week” will be this week, if I have interpreted it correctly.
We don’t see that investigation as any “major event”. It has been mentioned a few times since July. It will simply be added to all that other information.
You asked for sources and you have got some. Most original sources for that part of the story will be in Finnish, so we will not be able to clarify any details.
The blog “Muropaketti” offer the following OneCoin related stories (in Finnish):
I only mentioned it as an example, among the first search hits for the search string “OneCoin-virtuaalirahan selvityksestä tiedotetaan ensi viikon keskiviikkona #krp”.
We will usually avoid the use of too many translated sources. That’s the main reason for why we haven’t added many for that part of the story.
Found this information.
Use Google translate
iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-1446265310951.html?fb_action_ids=1043578705692493&fb_action_types=og.shares
“It will be added to all the other information”. But it won’t really change anything. OneCoin will still be a Ponzi scheme.
We analyse business models — what the business primarily is about — the main functions of the business, e.g. whether it’s based on commercial products or investments, whether it’s recruitment driven or based on sale of products to consumers.
OneCoin is primarily about investments. The recruitment system is a secondary component. The financial education component is a “pseudo-legal facade”. It doesn’t really have any real business function.
When it comes to laws, we will normally look at U.S. Federal laws. Europe doesn’t have any specific rules for MLM Ponzi schemes, they will typically be seen as a sub-type of pyramid scheme.
We will ignore “pseudo legality”, e.g. all the weird ideas people might have about “we don’t really invest anything, we buy financial education packages, and the tokens are simply free gifts”.
Most people know it isn’t true, so we have no intention of starting to repeat ideas like that. If people like to believe in ideas like that then they will find “like-minded people” somewhere on the internet.
I shared a link with you guys. Didn’t give any conclusions of my own.
I understand that it doesn’t matter if the whole world would together shout out. It’s not a SCAM. You will still go on the same path.
If everything planned really happens, the source code will be released, onecoin will be open for everyone to buy/sell. Just like bitcoin today. If that happens. Will you still pursue it as a scam.
Wondering what would it take for you guys to change opinion?
Hm… looks like this time they have avoided the real persecution. I am just wondering for how long more they will continue.
@Ken
Closed-system Ponzi points are not a cryptocurrency.
You can purchase a cryptocurrency as a member of the general public.
You can use a cryptocurrency to widely purchase and sell goods with.
None of these are true of OneCoin (token merchants set up by OneCoin do not count for obvious reasons).
It’s a Ponzi points closed-system, the value of which is pegged to the rate of new investment.
If one were to account dollar for dollar against every OneCoin Ponzi point, the Ponzi liability would be exposed. Such is the problem when you don’t let the market decide the value of the coin (another reason why OneCoin is not a cryptocurrency).
The CFTC are irrelevant. I invest funds with OneCoin in exchange for points, on the implication that the points will increase in value passively.
That’s a securities offering, which falls under the regulation of the SEC.
Filing with the SEC takes five minutes. You just need to fill in the required forms and disclose the required information.
Disclosure is a Ponzi scheme’s worst enemy however, so here we are.
As to idiots, the only idiots here are those who haven’t learned from history (Zeek Rewards).
VIP Bids = OneCoin tokens
Dumping VIP Bids on email address accounts to get VIP points = converting tokens to OneCoins in the mining pool
VIP points can be compounded == OneCoins can be compounded
Value of VIP points paid out using invested affiliate funds == value of OneCoins paid out using invested affiliate funds
The promises of the general public getting on board with Zeekler == promises that the general public will trade OneCoin (despite no legit exchange wanting to have anything to do with the Ponzi points)
Likely jurisdictional issues, like I predicted.
If a case is brought outside of Asia or Belgium, OneCoin will announce a shutdown in that country, the local affiliates will sign up with fake details and the fraud will continue.
Authorities have to hit them at a management/financial level, which means Belgium, Thailand or wherever they are laundering invested funds through.
I’m going to wait till Wednesday before covering this incase there’s additional information from the NBI.
That coins are being generated via a script does not have any bearing on OneCoin being a Ponzi scheme. What makes it a Ponzi scheme is affiliates investing funds and those funds being used to pay off existing investors.
The second would see Ponzi funds laundered through the general public and the wider financial industry at large. It won’t get to that point because nobody is going to buy into a points scheme with a value artificially inflated by Ponzi investment.
It was accepted as relevant. So I had it translated by Google, and quoted the whole story.
We made some jokes about the “soon to be unleashed beast”, the blogging phantom that should take up the fight against the evil.
I don’t think anyone will question your expertise on idiotic statements. 🙂
The membership packages can be seen as unregistered securities in the form of investment contracts. They have all the required elements in place.
The SEVA attorney accepted my simplified explanation in post #294 about that OneCoin’s membership packages were “more similar to investments than to commercial products”. I allowed him to use his own legal understanding, I only gave a brief description of the realities.
Business For Home News – Two headlines
OneCoin To Launch OnecoinCloud in November
Juha Parhiala – OneCoin Hits $1 Million Per Month
Some affilates can’t access their back office because of the Cloud, from my understanding.
Anyone know about this?
$4,000 per month / $36,000 per year. That’s the price if you want to get positive press coverage of a company on Business For Home.
behindmlm.com/mlm/where-do-you-get-your-mlm-news-from/
The price for individual interviews is $1,500 per story, according to the price list (but you will need to have a story worth telling others).
BFH won’t allow ANY company or opportunity to purchase the first type of “positive press coverage”, so it’s not listed in the official price list. Companies will need to ask for it to get the details about prices and conditions.
So the whole problem is the actual bonus system that bothers you guys?
Going through all the information it sounded before that the cryptocurrency in itself was fake. So now it could be real?
Nope. You missed the point. The Cryptocurrency aspect is not real, therefore the bonus system must be bogus.
You’re just taking things out of context.
The script might be real, with an algorithm churning something out but beyond that it’s Ponzi points.
Numbers on a screen pegged to Ponzi investment != a cryptocurrency.
I could download or have a coder come up with a cryptocoin script. Doesn’t mean BehindMLMCoin is a cryptocurrency just because I run the script.
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed. First and last warning.)
Does it matter if cryptocurrency is real? No.
The “currency” is centralized. Only Onecoin can store, verify, issue, transfer, backup the currency.
The company is owed 100% by Ruja. So she can do whatever she wants withe the currency. She can also change the algorithm whenever she wants.
And welcome to the world of Onecoin, where you can buy things for £$€ and get more free tokens for that.
The Onecoin currency won’t be used because that would be a “cash out” if a opportunity occurs. Good example is One-Cloud where you can’t pay for it in their own currency!! WHAT A JOKE! 😀
Anyone who has bought the One-cloud for 3000€?
I don’t understand why the Finnish NBI seems to drop the investigation of Oneceoin while the scheme is very similar to Global Pension Plan: fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Pension_Plan
– Global Pension Plans was also an international scam not based in Finland. Still it caused a criminal investigation leading to trials and to a verdict for the main scammer in Finland.
Well, let’s see what the official announcement of the NBI says tomorrow though I’m ready for a disappointment.
The Finnish NBI warns about Onecoin and claims that Onecoin’s excessive profit expectations are not realistic.
However the current status of Onecoin does not lead to any further investigation. So they are holding back until the pyramid collapses.
poliisi.fi/keskusrikospoliisi/tiedotteet/1/0/krp_on_selvittanyt_onecoin-virtuaalirahaa_41044
Thanks for the heads up Onecapita (and readers who sent the report in). Much appreciated as always.
Time for some weekend entertainment 😀
NOLINK://youtu.be/C_V4qj6gz8M
It is not clear to me whether OC is trustworthy or not.
One thing that makes me wonder is that they changed bank (where those hudge amounts of money come in) several times recently. What can ly behind a frequent change of bank if much Money comes in (OC does not seem having debts…)?
Furthermore, OC recently changed to a bank in Georgia!!
I have no answer yet is OC moved to Georgia, thus out of the EU, and away from EU jurisdiction. Does anybody know?
It’s a Ponzi scheme. They have a different standard of “trustworthiness”, e.g. you can be reasonably sure that most investors will lose money.
You can also be reasonably sure that it gradually will become more and more difficult to withdraw money from the system
As a business, it doesn’t have any legitimate business activities that can generate any profit to the investors — any external sources of income. The only source of income is money coming in from investors (disguised as “purchasing educational packages”).
This bank in Georgia (Capital Bank) may be the beginning of the end then.
Out of the EU. While gathering bigger and bigger sums of Money for biggr and bigger ‘packages’.
On the other side, being asked to transfer Money to a bank in Georgia may alarm people.
P.s. This bank is an already existing bank, if this is the bank that Ignatova bought is not clear to me.
Not a purchased bank.
That was just pie in the sky dreams in response to other banks shutting down their accounts.
Why where their acconouts shut down, does anybody know that? I found it very peculiar this changing of bank the whole time.
We know very little about OneCoin’s bank relations. We only know that OneCoin suddenly decided to not accept payments to the bank in Dubai (if I remember correctly).
Mashreq Bank in Dubai and JSC “Capital Bank” in Georgia are “corresponding banks”, i.e. they will accept transactions from each other from one country to the other (in two different currencies) — they regularly do that type of transactions back and forth on behalf of clients.
From my point of view, the frequent change of banks can be seen as “relatively normal for a Ponzi scheme”. It doesn’t need to “mean” anything in itself.
It would have been a red flag for almost any other business, but we’re not talking about that here. Most Ponzi schemes I have looked at here have had some trouble with their bank relations (mostly in the United States). Most will use multiple bank relations, often in different countries.
Can anyone post the content of Business Packages?
Please, present them if you have them available. Let`s discuss and see the value of the “investment” in the educational package.
Noteworthy coverage of a legitimate business or paid advertising of a money game?
businessforhome.org/2015/11/top-industry-leader-jose-gordo-joins-onecoin/
Is Ted making money at the expense of others? Or, OneCoin an honest and ethical business worth this type of coverage?
Who is running the asylum?
The primary content is “tokens” that can be used to pay for mining of onecoins.
Tokens are “valued” at €0.05 or €0.10 (I don’t remember which price). They will “grow in value” until they reach a certain price, and will then “split” (1 token becomes 2 tokens, and the price is reduced to half — before starting to grow again).
1 Tycoon package contains 60,000 tokens (50,000 is ordinary content, 10,000 is bonus content). The tokens in Tycoon packages will split twice, from 60,000 → 120,000 → 240,000 tokens.
The cost of mining — measured in number of tokens — will increase gradually (the earlier you join, the cheaper your onecoins will be). Current cost is about 25 tokens per onecoin.
Secondary content:
* “Aurum Gold Coin” — an unsuccessful digital currency “backed by 1 milligram of gold”. I don’t think it’s being traded on any exchange.
* “Financial education” (ebooks). I have only looked at the old versions.
The primary function of the “financial education” is pseudo-compliance = “we don’t sell investments, we sell financial education — and affiliates get the tokens for free as a bonus”.
The green boxes in my post #1192 are from the article, September 23 2014. They may have made some changes, e.g. they have added some discount for multiple packages and they have also added 2 more expensive packages.
PRICES
New packages may be “reinvestment objects” more than “investment objects” — methods to reduce withdrawals rather than methods to get fresh money coming in from the outside.
The first one was introduced when OneCoin had payment problems, when people were unable to withdraw money from the system.
The second one has been introduced to prevent the scheme from being drained for cash in December — to prevent it from collapsing.
NOLINK://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UPuhJAZ_NuEdLJYgtmvQPDbli83YxYGtuLLnrCBasbg/edit#gid=1254663653&vpid=A1
China what happening? 1700 new per day?
Ok, so after reading this article and comments, I have 2 questions:
1.) first comment was at Sep 23rd, 2014. Most of people predicted that the system will collapse 6 months after. Today is Dec 3th 2015. and the system is still “out there”. So those predictions fail?
2.) from within all comments and article, I couldn’t find any argument or proof that this system is a scam. Yes, there are “red flags”, and signs that assume that this COULD be a scam, but doesn’t have any PROOF that this IS a scam. Is there anyone who was scammed by this system?
(I’m not “in the system” or promoting it, I would like to know the facts, not opinions)
Now the Company changed to a bank in Florida. Yet Another country., within 2 weeks…
Can someone (or better that they receive many calls from different people) in US call Tdbank about their new and very suspicious client? I didnt find contact email from their website.
Online Ponzi schemes that gain momentum typically crash within two years. The ones that don’t crash within 6 months.
OneCoin has a bit of momentum behind it, so barring regulatory intervention will likely fall into the less than 2 years category (Zeek, TF etc.).
You invest funds and previous investors withdraw those funds based on OneCoin Ponzi points (tokens converting into OneCoins).
You then hope to withdraw funds, invested by subsequent investors.
It’s the same internal mechanics as Zeek Rewards:
VIP bids = OneCoin tokens
VIP points (converted to cash) = OneCoins themselves
Zeek Rewards = invest –> VIP bids –> VIP points –> ROI
OneCoin = invest –> OneCoin tokens –> OneCoins –> ROI
None of the above is opinion, it’s straight facts.
Hello there I spend 1000€ on this Onecoin (1 month of work).
Im really ashamed of not not listening to my brain. Anyway is there some way to atleast get back something ?
What would you suggest ? 1000€ isnt peanuts for me 🙁
Atleast I learned life lesson.
Still searching for Rujas picture of her studies in England.
NOLINK://benzmith.tumblr.com/
NOLINK://41.media.tumblr.com/cf510b50c64d867a431942305e9eabb9/tumblr_nyx3eqhS1W1uwevrmo1_1280.jpg
Lubo, If one has invested in OC, I would advice to ‘mine’ and get One Coins as soon as possible and try to change them into real cash. That way you might get some Money back Before the system collapses.
Peop0le who have larger packages and who are entitled to more than one split who not do the best thing if they wait for those splits, I Think. Best to mine and try to take out cash as soon as possible.
Those splits are probably just a way to hold on to the invested Money 🙂
I see regularly on this site that what makes OneCoin a Ponzi scheme is affiliates investing funds and those funds being used to pay off existing investors.
There is no payoff to existing investors! Where are poeple getting this?! The only payoff is a 10-25% commission on direct sales which is more than accounted for by mining tokens (the exchange rate for tokens is largely unfavourable)
Could someone explain where the big payoff is?? You can’t sell coins at an 800% profit unless there’s someone willing to buy at that price.
Thanks,
Gar
That’s how a legitimate cryptocurrency works, through publicly available exchangers and traders.
OneCoin doesn’t have any of that. It’s not open to the public and the only way to convert OneCoins into $$$ is through OneCoin (they own and operate the only exchange that exists).
The only money flowing into OneCoin is from new affiliate investment, thus the money being paid out to OneCoin investors converting their Ponzi points is invested affiliate funds.
The reason no legitimate third-party exchange wants anything to do with them is because the closed-loop flow of money from new investors to existing investors is obvious. Participating in the scheme by accepting OneCoin with knowledge of this happening would associate them with Ponzi fraud.
The dream sold is that one day suckers will buy OneCoins, meaning OneCoin won’t have to pay out invested funds to sustain payouts. That’s not going to happen because the general public aren’t idiots.
Nobody outside of the income opportunity is going to buy into OneCoin as a currency, given it has an artificial value set by the company. Nothing backs this value, with there obviously not being enough invested funds to convert every OneCoin point allocated to date for the advertised exchange rate.
Now that! is an analysis. Thanks Oz
I have never used big payouts as an argument for OneCoin. It’s rather “stingy” when it comes to payouts to passive investors (non-recruiters), at least if we’re talking about withdrawals.
People make money from selling Gift Codes to people they recruit, according to some posts here.
Passive investors will typically need more than 6 months to break even, according to another post. That’s high enough ROI to qualify as a Ponzi scheme, but it’s much more “stingy” than many other schemes.
That’s exactly the same thing I have tried to tell people (investors). The only realistic way to make money is to make other people believe it’s a good idea. It doesn’t make any sense believing too strongly in it yourself.
The OneCoin investors ARE “those people” — the ones willing to believe it’s a good idea and willing to pay for it.
dear sir kindly how to bonus points alloted and how to trade money and how to with draw money
1point=
1coin =
OneCoin points are “allotted” based on affiliate investment. Invest more = more points.
1 point = whatever arbitrary amount OneCoin require to obtain 1 coin.
1 coin = whatever arbitrary amount OneCoin set as the value.
Given OneCoin do nothing but increase the arbritary value of the coin, and that top affiliates have compounded to the point of generating millions of dollars in monopoly money each month, it’s obvious that OneCoin’s bank account doesn’t hold enough money if every assigned OneCoin was cashed in simultaneously.
I am a member OneCoin by status Trader, capital growth takes place according to the rules, all % are paid.
About Rouja Ignatova have an article in the Economist and Forbes jornals and about your media, they do not write …
OneCoin don’t base your ROI on “capital growth”, it’s a pie in the sky percentage they make up… just like Zeek Rewards.
Dollar for dollar if everyone traded their OneCoins in the scheme would collapse. Math doesn’t lie, and you can’t pay out more than you’ve brought in.
Yes, paid advertisements written by OneCoin staff. Sorry what was your point again?
ken labine, the over enthusiastic onecoin promoter from canada, has promised to put egg on his face if onecoin is not launched exactly 100 days from jan 8th, 2016. this puts egg splash day at april 18th, 2016.
apparently, 100 days from now onecoin will get accepted by one hundred and fifty thousand merchants across the world.
labine has openly challenged [ahem] ‘bloggers’ that 100 days from now it will be proved whether he is right or the ‘bloggers’ are right.
so, 100 days from now 150,000 merchants will appear from thin air to start accepting onecoin!
also, labine says onecoin is not on a public exchange because ruja is too smart for that. he says there are hundreds of cryptocurrencies on public exchanges and their value is negligible.
but, onecoin remains on ruja’s private xcoinx.com and its value is going up and up!! see how smart rujamama is?!
anyways, i suggest we should all start stocking up on eggs, 100 days from now, labine has invited us to a ‘splash egg on my face’ party.
i mean, if labine wants egg on his face, why not help him out?
April 18th, 2014 – SEC files pyramid scheme case against TelexFree.
How poetic.
in december, 2015 cointelegraph reported:
this article from cointelegraph also exposes the truth about CoinVegas, AurumCoin, and Xcoinx.
for instance coinvegas claims to be registered in malta:
cointelegraph.com/news/115861/onecoin-a-voice-from-inside-is-there-underground-circles-in-bulgaria
Onecoin have now put up so many barriers it’s impossible for most (I guess except the people that fool suckers and drive more business) to get funds out of OneCoin and also to trade as they request the following:
The bank statement is new – after 60 days since I submitted there’s been no response including no response to 10 emails to their kyc email.
This is an amazing scam but even more amazing that the authorities have not put them behind bars yet.
I joined to the Onecoin 3 months ago. I gave them 500 euro. Few days after registration, I sent documents for KYC (even more docs that they were asking for). After 2 months there is still “pending” under KYC.
Of course, you can’t sell “coins” or withdraw any amount without KYC confirmed. I was hoping that this is legit MLM (which is fine with me), but, this is pure ponzy scheme.
So, obviously I lost my 500 euros. If I will ever get them back I will post here, but I doubt it will ever happen.
So, whoever have any thoughts if this is legitimate cryptocurrency, no, it isn’t. You can’t sell (exhange) onecoin anywhere but within onecoin “community”. You can’t buy anything with onecoin.
If your “sponsors” are telling you about xcoinx as a legit “currency exchange website” (that’s the only website on the internet where you can find onecoin listed as a cryptocurrency, with hidden whois info), they are telling you lies.
Try to find (by yourself) if onecoin is listed at ANY of the cryptocurrency exchange platform or websites.
This is the info from the (stupid) member of Onecoin – me.
What a shock !!! But I felt it was in the air !! Greenwood and Ricketts – IMS Funds Transfer from OneCoin I reported before..
Man, these guys have taken poaching to a whole new level.
Screw luring individual affiliates, they’re just buying out smaller scams outright.
PS. What’s the source on the above text?
in 2011 sebastian greenwood was promoting unaico. so he must have helped it to merge with onecoin.
ethanvanderbuilt.com/sebastian-greenwood-promoting-sitetalk-video/
The text comes up as a message when a member wants to login to OPN Back office opn.com.
the SiteTalk website (OPN social network) does not report it.. which is very strange..
I am trying to confirm this from other sources but could this be a hacking attack on OPN back-office ?
Let us know how you go. I did try to verify it myself but came up blank (checked company websites and social media profiles).
They mine cash from sily and greedy people only.
It is the same “System” like UNIACO later OPN. A well proven method.
Guys, this is all true.. OneCoin has merged (actually to me its more like take over) of OPN/SiteTalk..
The OPN event ended after 1 day in one of Budapest Hotels and then bused showed up and took former OPN members to 3 Day Event of OneCoin in another Budapest Hotel 🙂 SHOCKING to say the least.
here is the email OPN sent to its members:
i have no time to translate todat sooo… check the pictures and links..The same procedure will happen to onecoin?
NOLINK://murobbs.muropaketti.com/threads/onecoin-uusi-pyramidihuijaus-krp-rikosta-voidaan-arvioida-luotettavasti-vasta-myoehemmin.1197240/page-128#post-1716703679
Ok, I made my “sponsor” (the man who joined me to the Onecoin) to pay me back my “invested” money and I will give him my account at Onecoin. So, luckily I got my money back.
So, if anyone is still wondering if this is a scam or not – yes, Onecoin is a scam. Ponzi scheme.
As for Onecoin KYC, it is still pending at my account (evene there is 60 days after sending requested docs). BUT, my “sponsor” got his KYC approved even he sent his documents 2 week after I did. So this is what I concluded: KYC in Onecoin is approved to the people who succeed to join larger number of people who will “invest” in Onecoin.
If you will not invite other people to Onecoin (and made them to “invest”), your KYC will NEVER be approved.
There is a logic of some kind – “if you bring me money, I will make you happy and I will allow you to withdraw some money. If not, I don’t need you, you can wait or leave – noone will miss you.”
So, stay back from Onecoin. Again – if it is too good to be true then it probably is.
Hi guys,
I just wanna say a couple of things. I worked for them too. I can confirm everything that has been said in the article.
When I worked for them, I just couldn’t understand the people who were investing in this. I was and I am still shocked by the immenese ignorance of people putting their money on this… hard to believe it. I’ll follow the discussion!
Guys, a very interesting read for all of you here:
onecoinnorway.com/index.php?p=1_40_Who-is-Ruja-Ignatova
just have a look at those diplomas and certificates and let me know what you think
cheers
so what? are you saying that because she has the diplomas that she is above running something that is wrong? way to many lawyers and those with credentials behind bars to pose that argument.
to be honest.. I do not believe in these diplomas 🙂 they are probably fake like fake coins 🙂
It’s hard to sell onecoin.
TRANSACTIONS
SELL 11 5.172 € PENDING
SELL 11 5.172 € PENDING
SELL 11 5.172 € PENDING
SELL 11 5.172 € PENDING
SELL 11 5.172 € PENDING
SELL 11 5.145 € EXECUTED
SELL 13 5.172 € EXPIRED
Contact Dr Ruja Ignatova. She will buy all your Onecoins. She knows the price will hit 50€ soon so it’s an easy trade for her.
Looks like OneCoin Norway got scared off.
The Scandinavian countries protect consumers’ rights good so I understand OC is on its guard there.
I am very curious what the outcome of the police investigation will be!
Interesting. The same thing happened to a Finnish site just recently: onecoin-finland.com
What seems to be the general website (the one that ends on .eu) is still open.
Well, onecoin.eu is the ponzi’s main web page. It would be bad for business to have it off line.
The Finnish web page (onecoin-finland.com) has provided information about Onecoin and the coming events in Finland.
The one(s) updating the web page seemed to be among the top fools of Finnish Onecoin pyramid so it’s strange to have it suddenly gone from the internet.
How about that 🙂
But but but I thought everyone was selling education packages.
Will the value of the education just magically go up on April 1st?
“Stabilise the value of the coin” = we need more ROI funds…
On a corporate level, OneCoin is sounding more and more like the Ponzi scheme it is with every update. Read the update and tell me if it sounds like it has anything to do with cryptocurrency.
here is another good news 🙂 is the end getting nearer ?
As I understand it withdrawals have been denied for a few weeks now. Hardly surprised they’re disabling them altogether for a few weeks.
How does raising package price have anything to do with making a coin that is being “mined” more stable?
Is onecoin in a blockchain?
So when things get worse just invent new package to get people spending more money into the system.
So members are still buying tokens that get converted to unstable onecoin – that no one is spending any place on the planet.
Yet somehow this coin has REAL VALUE
Lets sit back and count the new packages people are spending REAL CASH on! – This is the real magic of onecoin!
The exchange-part of the website already now is not available because of maintenance!
Does anyone know more about the persons promoting One Coin in Svandinavia – Sweden and Norway? Do those persons live in Scandinavia or have they prepared to run a long time ago by officially live elsewhere?
Promotional meetings are organized frantically now.
Been following this circus for a while now and a few things are funny
Ruja or DR ruja i belive her trackrecord are just as much of a scam as onecoin itself,, lets see here
her days must be 72h long as she is still young we can mention christine lagarde as example, shes not probably on FB ,still totally open and easy to find
the top is mostly scum or scambags:
Dr ruja
sebastian greenwood
Staffan Liback (joined in as “CONGLIUS” joined Onecoin)
Steinkeller brothers
latest infusion was UNAICO, SITETALK, OPN and a quick search gives us this:
Geographic data of opn.com main IP address
Surprise mutthafuckas! another eastern europe country, coincident? think not
as of now there are 1.3 million people sending their ID’s addreses, social.sec number, passport numbers, banknotes all to somewhere in eastern europe and without any kind, form or shape of security.. why dont they send their creditcard number too? ID theft are not uncommon you know.
onecoin are to mine 2.1 BILLION coins BUT are still not open source.. in other words, just 1 computer is doing the calculations at a rate of 60.000coins/day (BITCOIN open source miner mines about 0.00058 coins/ daily at curent difficulty.
so i guess Ruja has a cray II supercomputer in her basement, but this is tabu to mention on FB.. i personally think there is no blockchaining going on just numbers being added.
sofar i havent heard of anyone earning big on the coins, only through organisation and bonus… classic ponzi.
onecoin backoffice info.. this is how they push it:
You will never hear of anyone earning big on the coins at all. The packets are set at a fixed number that can be withdrawn. example (say a tycoon pack can only sell a number of coins to equal 50 euro.) That is providing the sell for the coin is even processed as a sell.
Onecoin either changes banking info or some other issue… kyc … or something else every 2-3 months so noone can withdraw or sell coins.
This again allows money to build to push the Scam a little longer. It also prevents many people from withdrawing at all by not honoring the KYC people send or adding additional information needed for people to send to be qualified or re-qualified in the KYC process.
The fact Juha, Sebastian, or Ruja is still able to operate this scam in as many countries as they do right now still amazes me. Being people still buy into the lies with all the info now out on Onecoin is shocking as well.
Here is a summary I posted of all the points I can think of which have developed over the past year with Onecon (with a few revised edits).
I wrote this to the guys who posted the supposed “expose” on BMLM – which really has little meaning or substance, anyway.
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/onecoin-mastercard-merchant-part-of-a-drug-gang/#comment-356592
@Oz – all Onecoin Facebook pages now seem to be getting filled with more people trying to sell their packages at great discounts, numerous others unable to sell coins at all for extended periods of time, and still others desperately spamming on how to sign up with them to subsidize what they recognize is going to be losses), and others pleasing for people to “WAIT! DON’T SELL YET, WHEN IT GUESS PUBLIC….!!!
… And even a few souls trying to earn others either not to sign up, or that they’ve already been ” had. ”
All of this is now happening more quickly than site moderators seem to be able delete such comments – and it is clear that they are trying as about half of the new comments have simply disappeared when you try to open them.
See for yourself.
Merchants are not coming (not one, let alone “500,000”)
The coin being listed on an open exchange continues to be pushed back…
Where is Ken Labine to explain all this and pacify everyone’s worries!?!
At this point, 1,000 new coins are being produced EVERY 60 SECONDS at a new Wizard (Ruja) dictated “value” of $6.43. 1,440,000 new coins minted a day, bringing a supposed $9,259,200.00 worth of “cryptocurrency” into existence DAILY! But no one can sell their coins.
It’s my belief that this ponzi scam may actually and finally be beginning to unwind while the founders bags are being packed, plane flights booked, and the simultaneous last “pump” or so are being very desperately ramped up to dish out the remaining Dixie cups of Kool-Aid that can be served at the end of this final stage.
@ Tim Tayshun, LOl! Must be a scrambling mad house at the OneCoin HQ to acquire new members as fast as possible to pay off the old Koolaid drinking members.
OneCoin got called out by CoinDesk as one of the top ten Bitcoin-related scams under Ponzi schemes hiding under Bitcoin’s legitimacy.
Here is what they are pushing….Seriously IQ over 200
An IQ of over 200 would place Dr. Ruse in the Top 5 EVER RECORDED in the history of the world.
Hey, it makes sense to me. How else can they explain how she “magically” doubles the number of tokens in the account of her “family” on a regular basis.
Yep, OneCon is legit alright. And as Ken Labine, Kevin Foster, Carl Wilt and others repeat to their “families” daily….. OneCon is “too legit to quit.”
Hammer time!
Next week, is the week THEY promised that they would reveal the 500,000 merchants they has ALREADY lined up.
Ken Labine… get the eggs ready. My hope is that these pushers end up being prosecuted for ripping off their friend & family.
attn: anyone following this blog!! TOMORROW at 4:00PM PST I will be debating Ken Labine about Onecon!!
I have been following this scam for almost exactly 12 months now and my ammo is ready.
I will try to come back and announce a link, otherwise will post it, if Labine doesn’t take it down. I have never recorded a LIVE debate, so I am hoping I have the keys to be able to record it LIVE. I’ll keep you all posted, anyway.
You probably want to watch that vid he had Kevin Thompson on.
Labine doesn’t “debate”, he shouts at you and doesn’t let you get a word in. He just goes on and on and eventually you just give up.
Yes, we do, Oz! Please, post a link
I think Labine made the video private. It was pretty embarrassing on his part.
Labine basically harassed Thompson’s family until Thompson agreed to appear on his YT channel. Then he shouted at him for 10-15 minutes. Thompson got about five words in and spent most of the time looking frustrated into the camera.
That’s pretty much the reason nobody engages Labine. Dude’s got issues.
@Oz, I downloaded his three Thompson videos before he made them private. Here is a quote from part 3:
The guy is nutz, simple as that. Nearly as crazy as the people that follow him. But I find him funny in small doses (in an uneasy sort of way).
He just posted a near hour long rebuttal vid. No way was I going to listen to that, but luckily he made idiot boards.
This one sums up his Onecoin fetishism/’blogger’ obsession
i.imgur.com/NdgDzl0.png
(In reference to the XcoinX exchange shut 5 weeks now and counting for “maintenance”.)
Did he explain how using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors isn’t a Ponzi scheme? Or are we still ignoring that and pretending attaching a product to a Ponzi scheme somehow legitimizes it.
Zeek Rewards had a product. TelexFree had a product. Both were Ponzi schemes because they used newly invested funds to pay off existing investors.
Sounds like Labine haven’t even mastered the Gish Gallop.
NOLINK://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop
Guess we’ll have to name Labine’s tactic as “Labine bop”, since it surely ain’t a gallop, like “boppity bop”
NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALyPLJ5iWU
@TimTayshun
My advice is to keep that Mute button ready, cause Mr. Ponzi Pimp Labine will not allow any sort of normal conversation whenever his ponzi is involved.
The Ken Labine Method: “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” ― W.C. Fields.
Ken spends (IMO…wastes) most of his time trying to convince HIMSELF that OneCoin is legit. I don’t think he’s much of a “player.” Is it true that after 12 months his OneCoin group is less than 300?
Oz asks, “Did he explain how using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors isn’t a Ponzi scheme?”
“You can’t defend the indefensible – anything you say sounds self-serving and hypocritical.” ― Diane Abbott
He has already acknowledged OneCoin is his ONLY source of income. He is ALL-IN, as they say. It comes down to survival as OneCoin is ALL he’s got!
As tmfp said, Ken is “funny in small doses.” I find it virtually impossible to watch more than 5 minutes of his videos which are nothing more than pathologically motivated rants.
Ken Labine, one of our favorite Coin Artists.
Stream: youtube.com/watch?v=XeEaI7nklsw
I had to turn it off after 10 seconds. It was literally Ken shouting about “doing videos”. Dunno if Tayshun is still on the line (stream has been going on for two hours), Labine seems to be talking to himself.
Edit (comment on video):
Lol, “Clear Technologies USA” appears to be Tayshun in the comments:
So uh yeah, Labine has been ranting by himself for over two hours now.
This live feed from Ken Labine at least clarifies something: Onecoin is not just a ponzi scheme, it’s also a mental illness.
All I can say is WOW!…. Labine needs some serious mental health help.
After being unable to continue with this man harassing me over exposing the Forbes Cover lie any longer I had backed away from following OneCoin and have been sitting back waiting for the collapse.
Tonight I signed onto Facebook and the first thing that pops up was a link to this so called “DEBATE”…. LABINE ranted and raved for I cant tell you how long and NEVER let Tim say a word.
Folks…. like I have said since finding out about the Forbes Cover lie… Onecoin is a scam… and tonight Labine just proved that by his refusal to let Tim say anything.
Funny how he brought up the Forbes cover exposure again and said that I had gotten it wrong because it was Brandvoice… DUH Labine… I was the one who found out it was Brandvoice!!! OneCoin then had to admit that it was and tried to play it off as a mistake!….
When someone needs to continuously rant as labine does there is definitely something to hide. He bullies people.
I have a question… since you claim to be making so much money from your onecoins value going up Ken Labine…. how about you show us some real money transfers to your bank???
Or wait. Thats right. OneCoin encourages everyone to keep their money invested so they can make even more money!…
Tim, I’m sorry you wasted your time with Labine tonight… but he stuck right to his m.o…. he’s AFRAID of the truth. And tonight just proved it!…. He’s really not that smart huh?… lol
His refusal to let you on the hangout proves what we all here have been saying… and Labine doesnt even see it that way.
Nice job Tim…I give you alot of credit for keeping on this clown…I just couldnt waste energy on him anymore!
LMAO…..I got that same impression!!!…Too funny…so sad!
Mlm motto is “fake it till you make it”
Ponzi motto is apparently “fake it until you are faked out.”
He’s stillllllll ranting!….hour 4??
YouTube’s livestream timer only goes up to two hours. No idea how long Labine’s been at it over that period.
Believe it or not Labine is actually starting to lose his voice at hour 4…lol…He really needs an award from Onecoin…he has got that ponzi down to a tee…..amazing!
“Started streaming 4 hours ago…”
Just briefly tuned in again, Labine still shouting at himself and four or five insults thrown in the space of about 15 seconds… tuned out.
Hahaha, four hours in Labine says “My opening statement is over… where’s yours? He (Tayshun) is not even here anymore.”
I think he thought Tayshun was going to sit through 4 hours of ranting before any discussion actually started.
Now trying to say Tim never showed!…Then started in on me for checking back to see how long he would actually go on and on and on for… what a clown show! I really dont see how anyone can take him seriously!
So desperate to defend this ponzi onecoin he doesnt even realize how unprofessional and crazy he looks!
I see, Labine’s idea of a debate is a filibuster. Funny idea.
No, no, no, it’s called dedication! Hard work! Fake it till you make it! You gotta have the faith! 😀
4 hours long “opening statement” – wow what a “debate”.
Lets face it, that Ponzi Pimp planned to have this sort of monologue in order to play his downline and friends how he managed to “beat” some Onecon hater.
Just look at his comments on other websites where he insulted and intimidated people, called everyone a loser and twisted facts around in order to defend the ponzi. You cant have a normal debate with that kind of a psycho.
What sane person would think it’s reasonable to expect their “debate” opponent to sit and listen to them ramble for 4 hours before allowing him to speak?
Planned monologue or not, the guy is so emotionally invested in OC that a real civil debate would be very difficult to accomplish.
I guess we can bookmark April 18 and see what happens with the whole merchant openings after his comment at around the 2:34:30 mark.
He did say he is completely confident in Ruja and OC, claiming that 100% of what she’s said will happen always happens.
One of his alleged rebuttals was regarding Chris Stone being booted from OC and Stone claiming something about being required to sponsor two more Tycoons.
He went to an image link that Tim provided him imgur.com/gallery/WaG7d but couldn’t stay focused long enough to figure out the connection. He just needed to take a quick look at the FB screenshot there and he would have seen where that came from.
He likes to claim that he actually reads and researches, but failed again when dealing with the whole Financial IT issue….he wanted to know where critics were getting their info that it’s allegedly a quarterly publication.
Well, all he had to do was go to financialit.net/content/welcome-financial-it where it states in bold at the bottom:
Financial IT magazine is published 4 times a year. With distribution of over 2,000 print and digital copies, our magazine is a perfect media vehicle to extend global reach of your print advertisement and brand awareness campaigns.
But honestly, after looking the site over and visiting financialit.net/issues I don’t think Financial IT even knows how often they publish. 🙂 They show 3 issues this year already, but just one last year and two in 2013 and 2014.
If/when OC tanks, I don’t see him handling it very well.
I agree Chris…Labine is so brainwashed by Ruja that he can’t see through the b.s. Imagine having to live with him after Onecoin tanks? His poor wife and family!
That may just be the breaking point for him… which lands him straight into the psy-ward.
I can’t help but to feel sorry for the guy. Sad to say, but just from seeing the way he acts on the videos… this guy has all the warning signs of someone who would hunt Ruja down, take her as a hostage, and blow himself and her to pieces!
Now what a story that will be for behindmlm… I can see the headlines now… “Crazed Onecoin Fanatic Ken Labine Kills Founder, Self, and Others in Massive Standoff”!!!! LOL
Pigeon Chess taken to the extreme… “Hitchcock’s Birds Chess”. 🙂
That was the exact feeling I got while checking into the hangout.
And what I dont understand is how his downline couldn’t see right through that ploy. This guy really isnt that smart… and if his downline fell for his ploy… then no wonder they fell for the onecoin scam as well.
I’m wondering how many people will be after Ken when this is all said and done.
@ ksp7653 (I was wondering….are you related to ksp7652?)
Predictions:
1. When OneCon finally collapses (or gets shut down), most of the Coin Artists will simply move on to the next one.
2. Ken Labine will be in a panic to remove every video ever recorded.
3. The so-called “One Coin Family” will turn against the Top Promoters and demand their heads.
Will Ken Labine finally learn his lesson, stop promoting ponzi schemes and get a real job?
Answer: His online reputation will be shot. Who would hire him?
Well, that was a lovely “DEBATE” we had.
Fortunately, Ken Labine’s lobotomy was apparently so successful that he literally walked through all the points I’ve made (or most) and posted them for anyone who has not had the same lobotomy operation he had.
While attempting to dispute my arguments (conveniently while I wasn’t there to further stack on proof and sourcing), he actually DID bring up major points of contention for anyone who still has half a brain to see that there was a point.
HOWEVER, Labine did slander me and spread libel in stating that:
1.) I am a coward “who didn’t show up (the most obvious, and yet ridiculous point).”
At the end of the “DEBATE” he actually reviews the comments on the video (before disabling them, of course), wherein I was still yelling at him to invite me in over 2 hours into it!
BTW: I tried SEVERAL means of reaching him: I sent him an invite to Google HangOuts (which I had high hopes of recording, because it would have been a public slaughtering). I also tried Skyping him several times. He responded to neither.
2.) He said that I stated that I never commented on blogs. This was a total lie, as what I stated was that, “I have never been a blogger and I have never had my own blog.”
3.) He stated that I deleted some of my comments, and called me a coward for it. The truth is, that I have NEVER deleted ANY comment on the subject of Onecon, EVER!
In reviewing the video, I thought, “what the hell is this nut talking about,” and then I got my answer!
An MLM website called BusinessForHome had written a story about Edward Ludbrook’s recent involvement in Onecon and I had commented.
The author, Ted Nyuent, deleted my comments, as they pointed out exactly how Onecon is a ponzi scam and how the Grand Wizard Ruja is the chief scammer, etc. HE DELETED MY COMMENTS (because the site is in some sort of collusion with Onecon, apparently).
4.) He stated that my “Wheel of Bitcoin” was created to drive traffic to my website and blogs (see #2). I haven’t updated my website since January 2015 (and the Wheel is not even posted or mentioned there).
Ken stated that I give away “pennies to poor Africans” with my Wheel. I was actually hoping to allow ANYONE to spin it live as they commented on the YouTube video “DEBATE” yesterday, to illustrate how easy and quick it is to send and receive bitcoin (which was the point for which I made it).
I have NEVER had less than a $20 Grand Prize while spinning it (and Yesterday for my local CoinFest Event [www.coinfest.org] I had $30.00 on it).
He also stated that I don’t even have a full bitcoin (as if trying to make some weird point). That was true at the time, as I had 0.9235 BTC, but when I first bought bitcoin in 2013, I ended up later selling some of it and opening my own company with it!
I can actually USE bitcoin, and do, on at least a weekly basis.
5.) HE stated that I claimed to be an “innovator in bitcoin,” blah blah blah. I never stated these things either.
Anyway, watching it was pretty funny. He did skip a few parts where he sensed trouble, but actually read many of our main issues, while confusingly circumnavigating the answers or admissions of guilt.
What a cluck that guy.
Let’s just say BusinessForHome is really an advertising-for-sale site.
How much did TN got paid by Zeek to allow Zeek’s MILF get polled as CEO of the Year? Only he knows, but it can’t be much less than that OTHER rag that pimped Zeek. Same thing is happening with OneCoin/Con/whatever.
Telling the truth ain’t profitable. That’s the truth.
@MLM Broken Model
Nope.
I put together a little video about Labine’s ravings on xcoinx. Enjoy!
NOLINK://youtu.be/QUXwnrNNREQ
If he tried to bring me into it he should of at least had a few facts straight.
I never claimed anything about having to sponsor 2 tycoon packages. That is something juha parhiala said on Facebook to me on the OneCoin page. Which I have a screenshot of and then later ONECOIN FACEBook admin took down.
I was actually telling him he was wrong. If it was only having a few tycoons under me that was an issue it never would of been an issue because I had that plus more.
OneCoin is a Scam. Juha, Sebastian and Ruja are the ringleaders of it. I questioned a lot and Finally just stopped doing anything with OneCoin at all once I seen it.
After raising hell about it all at least I got my investment back plus my cash that was owed from the transactions of the coin sells. Everything else was froze and taken.
I don’t really care because it just proved what I was saying all along which is it is and was a scam. Real currency can’t be taken from this so called banking system they have in place with ” E-wallets” as Ruja calls it.
As far as this twit Labine, I don’t know shit about him besides what is said on here and guarantee he doesn’t know anything worth a shit about me.
I do wish though The authorities would lock up these three for the scam they are doing and the people they are robbing. Although that is why Sebastian and Juha live in Bangkok, Thailand because when you have money like they made from this scam they can stay out of prison easily there.
Amusing, but not surprising. Some “debaters” got so worked up about a minor detail they forgot the script they’re supposed to be following. Then later they try to “special plead” their way out of their hole by inventing some crazy “exemptions”.
@OzDelphi, it’d be funnier if you add some title cards at the beginning and end
Beginning: Is XCoinX a real exchange?
Ruja, the inventor of OneCoin, says it is!
Ruja video
But here comes Ken Labine, a supposedly OneCoin advocate, telling critics it’s NOT an exchange!
Ken soundtrack (include date and timestamp)
Ruja video
Ken sound track
Ruja video
Ken sound track
End with: Ken Labine — can you trust this guy’s judgement on OneCoin?
Or better: Ken Labine — is he really a promoter of OneCoin? Or a saboteur?
XcoinX was set up by OneCoin after every third-party exchange they approached refused to carry OneCoin.
No legitimate cryptocurrency exchange wanted anything to do with OneCoin Ponzi points.
I know, but KL had to follow one camp, or the other. He can’t keep his foot planted on both sides. He can’t argue OneCoin is legit WHILE saying XCoinX is “not a real exchange”.
The idea is to highlight how illogical he is that he’s hurting OneCoin, as in “with friends like this, who needs enemies”.
Critics lambasting OneCoin will be ignored. When OneCoin promoters start to contradict Ruja, people notice.
We need to get the word out about THAT, not as “haterz” speech, but as a KL takedown, internal rebellion / civil war, if you will. Get them to turn on each other, cast doubt on ALL of them.
How likely is it that an “expert” in cryptocurrency would make the likely mistake that, “Bitcoin was created before the terrorists … before September the 11th (2001)”
Please see at exactly the 5:15 mark: youtube.com/watch?v=WP7LEBaxOS4&nohtml5=False
I question whether she is ABSOLUTELY cognizant that Bitcoin was first released in January 2009, or that her statements simply fit the narrative for their implementing KYC.
Onecoin was initially developed NOT to be KYC compliant, which gave some small credibility to Ruja promoting the idea of “Banking the Unbanked” and that “Onecoin will be a cryptocurrency for everyone, not just the rich.”
HERE is that evidence: slideshare.net/Onecoinplus/onecoin-secrets-revealed-2015-54053389
The following article explains exactly how and why “KYC” (Know Your Customer) is disadvantageous to accomplishing Ruja’s “feel-good” assertion that they will “bank the unbanked:” bankingtech.com/196622/unbanked-banks-suffer-from-tougher-kyc-rules/
KL right now is looking for the boogeyman (actually strawman) to blast and Tim here served as a convenient target to distract his followers. But debating KL is meaningless. He just rants.
Instead, recast his opinions as anti-Onecoin, which they often are, as he’s so focused on contradicting supposedly Tim’s position he’s gone off the reservation, so to speak.
Casting KL as anti-Onecoin will basically put him in a rock and a hard place: not only it undermines his credibility, OneCoin may decide KL’s too much of a liability to keep around and “throw him under the bus” figuratively.
If KL had to prove his loyalty, he will be pissing into the wind twice as hard. 😉 Getting us more material to roast him with.
This is fundamental psyops… use their own stuff against them.
@Chris Stone:
Check out Labil’s video at 32:32 he created a PowerPoint Slide on you
LABINE ADMITS TO RUJA THEFT:
He admits Grand Wizard Ruja is indeed an Indian Giver and states that Chris deserved to have his coins taken away (is this Chris’ money or are these his ponzi points, Ken? It’s gotta be one or the other. Is this real or virtual theft?)
youtube.com/watch?v=RTgpYLfrGhw&nohtml5=False
In my 4 1/2+ hour long “DEBATE” video with him (of which I was conveniently not allowed to participate), he not only reinforces the above. He references something I wrote to the effect of Ruja claiming they sell “cryptocurrency education packages,” but discouraging anyone from experimenting or even trying any other “crypto” other than Onecon (so, what kind of “education is that, really?).
Ken goes on to emphasize something to the affect of, “If you work for Nike, of course also trying to sell Adidas is a breach of contract (and you should get fired).”
This would be akin to a gold broker confiscating your gold if you also held interest in silver or platiunum simultaneously!
What I like about this video is that you don’t have to listen to his whiny voice since he’s using a PowerPoint Presentation. I hope he makes more like this so I can compress his hour long ramblings into short 5 minute pieces.
FINANCIAL IT “COVER”
At 48:58 he states unequivocally that FinancialIT cover was NOT a paid advert. Sorry Ken, there is no “February Issue” which is why you can download the “Winter Issue” but not Ruja’s.
Again, there are a number of other lies that he is documented as stating in this slide show, as with most of his videos.
On the bright side for those who end up losing all their investment, I s’pose this will all one day be useful against him in the Court of Law. I don’t believe, “I had wax in my ears” is a strong legal defense.
HERE IS THE MOTHER OF ALL BOMBASTIC CLAIMS, APPARENTLY!!
imgrum.net/tag/nextpaymentmethod
and check this:
imgrum.net/media/1213433208741057992_2976472836
“Onecoin will be accepted on Alibaba.com”
Just wow. Certainly this will lead to many more recruits and greater disappointments. Is there no limit to their insanity!?
I just watched that section of his little video. It is funny he states she took her free coins back.
The packets had tokens used for mining. The coins came from tokens mined based upon a supposed token to coin mining rate.
Once the coins were mined they were supposedly the person who mined them coins. Since this is a supposed currency and in the Members E-wallets as she stated in NOLINK://imgur.com/gallery/WaG7d/new to me in an email. Then it would mean she took My money from me out of the “E-Wallet”.
IT is more equivalent to a bank taking your cash account for having another bank.
We all know it is just points on a dashboard not actual currency but it can’t be both. Either it is currency or points.
If it is currency she took money out of my account or “the bank system”, which she couldn’t do. IF it is just points on a board it is a scam.
That was the first time I have listened to the guy but really just that clip the way he tries to explain that piece I think he is the best tool to disclaim Onecoin himself.
Anyone listening to his logic, if they have half a brain, can see the contradiction as he tries to justify something.
@Chris Stone (and EVERYONE)
THAT THERE EXPLANATION is extremely logical, and I believe a very sound Legal Platform (of several) which could be used to prosecute this ring of thieves capitalizing on people’s naivety with the “buzzword” of “cryptocurrency/ hybrid of MLM.
You’re absolutely right!
You can’t have it both ways, and either way is clearly pretty damning.
what do you guys think about that ?
According to a OneCoin press release:
Could they disappear with all the money during this “move”?
And Steve Chen of USFIA had a “mansion” and a “golf course” to entertain people with… So what?
So they waste a bit of of investor money for show… No surprise.
Took six months for TelexFree to even bother getting an office in Massachusetts.
Think about it… WHY would a CYBERcurrency need a building that does not do actual mining? The answer from them is quite simple: “cryptocurrency center to welcome members and guests” It’s a SALES SHOWROOM.
Why would a cybercurrency need a sales showroom? Think about that.
LMAO….Great job!!!
Hypothetically yes. The building can be merely a short-term lease or just an “intent to lease”.
They claim they need to shut down for something and simply never come back up except for the automatic messages.
Y’all probably weren’t aware that One Network Services Ltd (Bulgaria) applied for a US trademark on the name OneCoin. Enter serial 86600104 into NOLINK://tsdr.uspto.gov/.
16/04/2015, application by One Network Services Ltd signed Irina Dilkinska, head of legal and compliance.
19/02/2016 Notice of Abandonment:
23/03/2016, appointment of new power of attorney by One Network Services Ltd, signed Veska Ignatov, Director.
Who is Veska Ignatov? Ruja’s mother?
Veska Ignatov is indeed Ruja Ignatova’s mother.
Wasn’t aware they were trying for a trademark in the US. Thanks for the heads up!
If I’m not mistaken, they just hit 30% coins “mined” this week and therefore have about 36 hours to on-board 500,000 Merchants, which they’ve been talking about forever.
Anyone have an update on that?? All I hear are crickets.
April 18 is the magic date. I guess we’ll see what happens Monday or shortly after. 😉
I know it’s an exciting time Tim, but please be patient.
@Chris – I know, I know. Patience. Le’ Sigh.
I had remembered how much they have been pumping the 30% metric and on this magic date thus reveal that Onecon has in one instant TRIPLED the merchant adoption which took bitcoin 7.5 yrs to build.
BTW: One of the contentions amongst merchants considering adopting bitcoin is the 10 minute block times (although rare, a transaction could be hypothetically “double-spent” by an advanced hacker, prior to the merchant receiving their first “confirmation” from the network verifying the transaction as secure and mathematically legitimate). Onecoin ALSO has a 10 minute blocktime (and EXACTLY 100x the coins, and *will be divisible to the 8th decimal place).
Bitcoin is deflationary with its “block rewards” (reward for pool which solves newest batch of transactions, roughly every 10 min., called a “block”) being “halved” every four years (started at 50 BTC in 2009, in late 2012 became 25 BTC, and in mid July 2016 becomes 12.5 BTC, etc… roughly every 4 years), until the final coin is minted in year 2140. This is a 131 year circulation rate from start to end.
On the other hand, Onecoin doesn’t “halve,” but the tokens required to *mine it split (to simultaneously increase purchasing power, while the “dificulty” based on new members, requires more coins to mine 1.0 Onecoin).
Onecoin is completely HYPER-INFLATIONARY with 1,440,000 coins minted DAILY (which is 1,000 coins a minute!!), with a final distribution number of 2.1 Billion (in 3% the time frame of bitcoins final distribution date).
At that rate, which has been maintained since day one, I believe, if my math serves me correctly, the total amount circulated is accomplished within 3.99543378 years (ie., exactly 4 years).
In January 2015 Ruja assigned the made-up value to these coins at $0.50, meaning that she instantly created a business which began making $500 a minute ($30,000 an hour/ $720,000 a day). She next stated the price would be $1.05 a couple short months later, which essentially doubled the value to nearly 1 1/2 million dollars a day.
Since Onecoin is now arbitrarily created in her most recent imagination to be worth around $6.00 each, she has convinced the Kool-Aid drinkers that somehow these education packages have created a cash-flow of new onecoins contributing to the market cap at a rate of $180,000 an hour ($4.32 MM a day!).
Since this rate of distribution has never (and will never) changed, the amount of tokens needed is the clever way to trick new members into moving quickly before the magic “split barometer” reaches 100% and before the amount of ponzi tokens required to mine the ponzi coins increases.
Really, it is simple in its complexity if you can math. If I have miscalculated, someone please correct me.
The above ideas are so financially perverse and their so logic skewed, it is the core essence of my frustration of not being able to retract the wool from over these people’s eyes.
If you look at some of Ken Lamebean in this short <2min. video of him arguing against his founder, the Grand Wizard Ruja youtube.com/watch?v=QUXwnrNNREQ (thanks Oz), you will see him talk about how he "likes to see"= that bitcoin only has 17MM coins created and Onecon has 700MM…" etc.
THESE PEOPLE THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING!!!! JUST WOW!
ALSO, FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATION:
Onecoin states that bitcoin simply doesn’t have enough units to achieve what is needed to be a world reserve currency.
Firstly, bitcoiners don’t think that will happen any time soon, if ever. BUT, it bitcoin were to increase so significantly in value over time, increasing bitcoin’s divisibility from 0.00000001 to the 9th or 10+ decimal point would be considered a VERY SOFT “FORK.”
In other words, if the smallest increment (a “satoshi”) were to become calued at greater than, say one penny, adding an additional decimal point (or ten, whatever) would easily be programmable into the open-source software and would ABSOLUTELY have the consensus of the network.
THEREFORE, the argument that Onecoin MUST have 100x the coins to achieve this becomes completely invalidated. Period!
@ TimTayshun……huh??
LOL. I’ve never been interested in bitcoin and know very little about it.
Ponzis that attach “educational packages”, “ad packs”, etc. to investment opportunities I am quite well versed in.
I just listened to this week’s (April 14th) OneCoin webinar and they didn’t mention a thing about merchants coming online Monday. Interesting omission don’t you think?
That doesn’t mean that Ken will start to worry but if I were Kevin Thompson I might consider changing my phone number.
But when you think about it, even if you could actually buy things with OneCoin who in their right mind would?
I mean OneCoin is worth twelve times as much today as it was a little over a year ago so why trade OneCoins for goods and services that could be purchased just as easy with a non appreciating asset like fiat currency? It just isn’t a wise resource allocation decision.
Ponzi’s not only give people a nearly irresistible investment opportunity, they also need to make it seem stupid to ever try and withdraw your money.
Check and check.
@ Oz, ChrisStone, TimTayshun, Chris Bailey, K. Chang, jodi dojnia and others
What’s your take on the OneCoin promoters here in the USA?
If OneCoin has yet to “officially open for business in the USA” how is it that Tom McMurrain, Kevin Foster, Carl Wilt and others are able to sell their Investments here?
Tom McMurrain has gone silent on his Facebook page with his last OneCoin post date of Feb 22nd when he had this to say:
On Feb 22nd, Tom went from dozens of posts about to OneCoin daily to NONE!
But wait! He may be silent on his Facebook page but, as his sponsor Kevin Foster points out today, Tom McMurrain is still pumping OneCoin hard, and from the front of the room in Las Vegas (Lost Wages….perfect)!
I just did some “REAL research” myself on the term “Tom McMurrain” and WOW! Could this be the same Tom McMurrain who is leading the parade of ponzi pumpers in Las Vegas today?
I found this Domain Registration for ZeekRewards, a known Ponzi Scheme also covered here on BehindMLM.com:
Is that the same Tom McMurrain who is now one of the Top Pumpers in the USA for OneCoin?
In keeping with Old Saying Day, I pose this question, “Can a cheetah change its spots?”
Offshore shell companies is the usual route. Unlike a legitimate business, OneCoin just turn a blind-eye.
Outing top investors isn’t good for business.
Also wouldn’t surprise me if OneCoin investors were in Zeek. The business model is pretty much the same and they jump from Ponzi to Ponzi.
@ Oz
I understand your point from the point of view of OneCoin. They aren’t concerned with the rule of law.
I should have stated my question better and more to the point.
From a regulatory agency point of view, are their special laws which address selling securities for a company that is NOT even registered to do business in the USA, much less registered with the SEC?
I hear some of the OneCoin promoters residing in the USA aren’t concerned with the US regulators because OneCoin is not registered here. Any legal minds care to comment?
When OneCoin finally collapses (from within or by European regulators), can the promoters who reside in the USA be held accountable?
If so, would this fall under criminal act or civil offense.
Personally, I am sick and tired of these same Ponzi Pumpers getting away with most of their ill-gotten games, only to move on to the next one…..with the same results.
That is my point.
Promoting (offering) unregistered securities in the US is a violation of the Securities Act.
In 2014 civil fraud charges were filed against US-based EmGoldex investors, despite it being a European based Ponzi scheme.
Thanks for confirming Oz.
It’s obvious that a lot of OneCoin promoters follow behindMLM.com and hopefully some of them will consider the potential consequences of their actions.
However, since they don’t care about their own reputations or loss of investment to their friends, it’s highly doubtful they’ll think twice about possible civil fraud charges either.
The Ponzi Pumpers in EmGoldex probably believed they were “safe” too.
Will the Hot Shots who are Pumping OneCoin experience EmGoldex Part Deux?
Stay tuned!
They’re doing it under the table, pretending it’s a franchise, buyer taking over entire positions and downlines, as if it’s a MLM, despite OneCoin claiming it’s not MLM.
Let’s just say the OneCoin pimp Tom McMurrain is confirmed to live in Atlanta, Georgia. He claims to make a living by trading and operates ZenTradingFX, but he will gladly coach you for $$$ on whatever he thinks you need.
Same thing happened when Steve Chen raised price of GemCoin every couple weeks and the Facebook “fan” groups and pimps lapped it up like nectar.
Can anyone tell me how can they claim to have over one million and seven hundred thousand members and only a few people like their page?
Does it mean that the majority do not really believe in the vision of the company? (40,059 Total Page Likes)
@K. Chang – I don’t believe that Onecoin claim not to be an MLM (although I definitely DID hear the Keen le’Bean argue this once. Lol).
@ALL – INTERESTING UPDATE
So, after seeing this post and you guys bringing up his name, I actually decided to try to reach out again to Tom McMurrain and today we ended up talking on the phone for over an hour and a half (!!!!).
I certainly had many preconceived notions about him, BUT I have to state, honestly, he was a nice guy: articulate, had at least some background and understanding in bitcoin, and we actually talked civily, despite our very clear disagreements on OC.
While I am in no way exonerating him for his involvement when this likely collapses, I do feel it relevant to bring up some aspects of our conversation on this thread, since he has only been looked at as a villain, it appears.
It is fair to present both the positive with the negative, so as to not have only pieces of the whole story.
It seemed clear to me that Tom definitely came across as someone who believes in the possibility and vision of OC; sincerely. Our discussion seemed very “honest” and natural, actually (unlike Le’Bean’s and others).
That said, he admits that he is very clear in his videos to members and prospects as advice “not to put in anything more than you are willing to lose.” He says he is 95% sure that Onecoin will pull this off (based on sheer numbers and capital).
Of course we disagreed on the validity of the project at its core.
Nevertheless, I was extremely surprised to learn that he was able to prove to me that he is indeed a cryptocurrency and bitcoin advocate! This is contrary to what Ruja preaches, by the way.
He has a show in which he actually talks about other cryptocurrencies, like bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum, etc. (legit crypto’s), sometimes exclusively, other times with some Onecoin plugs. He has actually helped people and merchants set up bitcoin wallets, and is introducing bitcoin to other business leaders.
In fact, HERE is a short video of him demonstrating how to easily set up a bitcoin wallet (and doesn’t mention Onecoin at all): setupcoinwallet.com
(Oz: Please post link, as I think it is relevant to supporting the claim above that he is not ONLY a “Onecoin pumper”)
Also, in July of last year I had met Kevin Foster at the Onecoin USA (California) “launch” (although it was held in a small office rooom with maybe 65 people in the city of Downey, the outskirts of L.A.).
Again, super nice guy. He had in fact just completed his 6th or 7th (mis)education package on cryptocurrency for which he received a huge round of applause.
In speaking with him after the event (“sign up and become RICH!”), I was flabbergasted that after however many $10K or whatever spent on “cryptocurrency education,” he was unable to even follow my basic conversation ABOUT bitcoin and cryptocurrency, for the most part.
But, both of these guys, in my opinion, DID seem sincere in what they “believed” they were doing.
After negotiating the original conversation in a friendly enough way to proceed with respect to the fact that I know Tom is an OC advocate and that he knows that I have conviction that OC IS an absolute ponzi scheme built on false premises and misleading marketing to bring in new money; we agreed to talk openly about my itemized qualms vs. his support of OC.
Without getting into specific details within a private conversation, Tom acknowledged the extent to which I was familiar with Onecoin history and took the position that he did have some disagreements with their PR, in general.
We actually spoke quite a bit about other Alt-coins, bitcoin ATM’s, cryptocurency in Africa (which I am involved in), and more and he appeared to be generally involved in the space for “the right reasons” (ie., banking the unbanked, and spreading the message about “all cryptocurrencies,” etc.); despite backing Onecoin.
He did admit that most of the issues I take with OC are legitimate questions and was unsure of how to respond or how OC could achieve the banking of the unbanked with current KYC implemented (Note: it would be impossible).
On a final note, He told me he is planning on meeting Ruja soon (in London, I believe) to discuss some of the concerns I brought up and to gain some clarity on a few of the specific instances/ issues in question.
I also asked him if there were anyway I could obtain a copy of the “cryptocurrency book” which Ruja allegedly authored. He claimed to have had a copy of it in his hand last weekend in Las Vegas, but promised to try to obtain a copy of it for me (I will have it translated from chinese, or whatever!).
I offered to pay him in bitcoin if he can get me a copy 😉 So, we shall see.
NOTE: THIS UPDATE IS NOT MEANT TO “REVEAL” SOME “PRIVATE CONVERSATION” BETWEEN TOM AND I, ONLY TO SHARE SOME BIT OF INSIGHT AFTER HAVING SPOKEN WITH HIM, AS NO ONE ELSE HERE SEEMS TO HAVE SPOKEN WITH HIM DIRECTLY.
MY CONCLUSION REMAINS THAT ALL ONECOINERS HAVE PUT ENORMOUS FAITH IN ONE RUJA IGNATOVA AND A CLOSED/ UNACCOUNTABLE SYSTEM. MY PERSONAL POSITION IS THAT IT WILL LIKELY NOT END WILL, AND THIS THREAD HAS BEEN CHRONICLING THESE RED FLAGS AND OTHER EVIDENCE, SO FAR, TO PRESENT.
@TimTayshun
Please see my post #36 here: https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/onecoins-bungled-us-trademark-application/#comment-357889
Your work on OneCoin is commendable, but you are an example of the mark to whom I was referring.
This is not about crytocurrency. This is about scamming. Tom McMurrain is a convicted felon who after serving time has continued his ways. He pimped Flexkom for heavens sake, and now this.
Respectfully, you need to get your head on straight and stop dancing with the devil.
You can’t. It’s unprovable and unverifiable. And they have EVERY reason to inflated it 100x or 1000x because it makes OneCoin sound better and trigger FOMO (fear of missing out) in prospects.
I read Chinese. 🙂 At least I can tell you if it’s bull**** or not if you can just upload a couple pages.
Now that you reminded me, he used to pimp TVI Express as well.
NOLINK://kschang.blogspot.com/2011/06/who-heck-is-tom-mcmurrain-and-why-was.html
Of course he seems that way.
Fraudsters and scammers don’t all wear black masks and hats and sound like cartoon car salesmen, you know.
It’s the very fact they sound genuine, knowledgeable and caring that makes them good at what they do.
Ben Zmith has done a lot of great work covering Onecon. He has a few dozen videos on it, in fact, after seeing his friends fall victim to the scheme.
One story that BehindMLM and Ben Zmith have already covered, but for which ther is new PROOF and SOURCE evidence is the most recent Financial IT Covers (Winter, January and February), the latter featuring everyone’s favorite Grand Wizard, Ruja Ignatova:
Ben Zmith listed the .pdf links allegedly showing both the January (TRUE “Winter” Edition) and the February (Ruja PAID advert)
JANUARY (WINTER): docdro.id/krIV3BT
FEBRUARY: docdro.id/QIWxwsk
I was unable to SOURCE the original Ruja issue ….until NOW!
SURPRISINGLY, OnecoinNorway uploaded the entire (PAID FOR) Ruja issue HERE: onecoinnorway.com/index.php?p=1_58_Dr-Ruja-Ignatova-on-the-cover-of-Financial-IT
It is backed up here, it seems: yumpu.com/en/document/view/55235400/revolutionizing-the-financial-markets
(We will compare this page-for-page to the preceding F.IT issue, momentarily)
However, what I find astounding is that Onecoin has adamently stated that they “earned” this cover and it was “NOT a paid advertisement.” Two things immediately come to mind:
1.) At the bottom of OnecoinNorway’s own page about this wonderful accomplishment, they state, “We would also like to thank Financial IT for providing 13 200 OneCoin members with a FREE issue! The magazines were over (sic) in less than a day! We would like to thank Financial IT for their cooperation and generousity (sic)!
How many magazines GIVE AWAY over 13,000 magazines for “FREE” because some individual or company had an article in them? Do they make it a point to give away 10,000’s magazines to everyone they “feature,” I wonder?
**HINT: “FREE” Magazines weren’t FREE
2.) Here’s a stumper! How many Magazines launch a “January Issue” and then simply reprint that very same issue the following month, but change the cover and add EXACTLY one new two-page story (while removing 2 pages of previous ads to accomodate said story) and call it their next month’s issue? How would YOU feel if that were a magazine you subscribed to? Lol.
**HINT: NONE. It was a paid promotional piece, without question
3.) other discrepancies:
a.) While OnecoinNorway DOES show Ruja’s full issue, the image they feature of the cover shot clearly says “Winter Edition” on their slideshare (which is what Onecoin.eu also promoted). However, Financial IT’s own website shows a “January Issue” (original content) and Ruja’s issue, which is “February” and is an exact copy of January (as described above)
SEE HERE: financialit.net/issues
b.) Curiously, all archived issues (each and every one) enable downloading of full content via .pdf. Except Ruja’s. Hmmmmm. When you click the .pdf link, it becomes clear that you may only view the contents of that (apparently “special”) one by purchasing it for $19.95. I ordered one. Will probably make my first video w/ it.
SEE LINK HERE: financialit.net/node/3313
Amongst all the other documented crapola on Onecon, I brought up this Financial IT controversy to yet another Onecon Team Leader out of Florida, whom I contacted late last week (initials: RM).
He claimed to have over 2,200 in his downline. During our debate, he forced me to watch some of his magic ponzi presentation via PowerPoint, over Skype, which was all snake oil (other than the part about “it is good to invest in gold too”).
YOU GUYS! I saw the “Ruja has 500,000 Merchants ready to be on-boarded now” slide!! IT IS SOMETHING HE (THEY?) USES IN HIS RECRUITMENT VIDEOS! I tried to screen capture it QUICKLY, but failed. My apologies, but this is really a “thing” they are pushing from within, apparently. “500,000 MERCHANTS READY TO BE ON-BOARDED NOW!”
Anyway, the Kool-Aid was strong in this one. After dismissing the Forbes cover as never having been meant to deceive (ummm., sure!), RM was actually the SECOND high level operative/ decepticon whom I spoke with who stated that Onecoin did pay “about $1,000,000 USD” for that Brand Voice cover!!
This comes from two sources now, and that is the exact number that both sources stated, independently. Of course, they both said, “….you know, Brand Voice has a very, very strict “vetting process,” blah, blah, blah (in order to accept a check for $1MM, apparently).
The point of my story is the following:
1.) We have more details about the Financial IT issue, as well as an additional SOURCE reference (on both sides)
2.) Team Leaders are using the “500,000 Merchants” attraction (at least RM and Can Le’Bean, but likely more)
3.) We have 2 Top Sources who independently stated that The FAKE Forbes Cover cost the investors $1,000,000 USD approximately!
Stay tuned! Am hoping to have some really juicy stuff on OneWorldFoundation, the alleged “charity.”
Also, as a reminder, “KYC” makes it IMPOSSIBLE to “bank the unbanked”
AND: “FRIENDS DON’T LET FRIENDS ONECOIN!”
To show what an internet police enforcing, scared-of-losing-the-goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs, Kool-Aid drinker looks like, here is an excerpt from the half video/ half text Skype conversation between “R.M.” and I:
TimTayshun NOTE: Not gonna happen. The truth hurts, donut?
FinancialIT is an advertorial magazine. Pretty much everything in it pertaining to a third-party company is a paid ad.
If only the silly people making such statements realized how completely and utterly clueless they make themselves look when they even “think” things like that, much less say them.
@littleroundman – I think I am safe from libel, otherwise I wouldn’t have posed this, of course 😉
Now, if anyone in the legal field can help ALL OF US build a case to contribute to the Finnish Govt. and others (Sweden, Norway, Nederlands, Estonia, etc), than I think we have enough evidence to show that the lies spread by these decepticon Leaders are enough to assert that “normal people” would NEVER get involved in such a scam unless the lies precluding the scheme were not as proposterous as they obviously are.
These figures are really milking it, and have a bit of new “blood” in their leadership to really perpetuate this scheme in which new recruits pay the older pumpers and eventually (hopefully soon) the well runs dry. this is bad for the crypto-community, and it really needs to stop, without undue regulation being imposed in various jurisdictions.
I’m from Belgium and there’s an idiot of an ex-politician called Laurent Louis trying to sell this scam to his dumb fans community.
The thing is his fans are mostly undereducated and not very rich. But they’re blinded by his supposedly anti-establishment discourse. And he’s trying to sell them that they could fight the system AND making money by entering this stupid ponzi.
I’m afraid that some (maybe even a few hundred) will trust him and give some hard – earned money to be part of this joke…
Despite many warnings that he carefully deletes on his facebook page, he continues to push this.
I must say I’d love to have him ending up with a law suit, but don’t really know how to do it. ..
If you are registered in the USA they won’t allow you to “sell or trade” your coins on the exchange.
They will have you register under another country. Issue then will be your KYC.
Had a few people I registered originally run into this issue once they started this “new verification ” for KYC late in Dec 2015 I think it was. Which locked up their withdraws along with many other people.
If you email the FBI etc on it I am sure they will respond that it is a know ponzi and not to gt involved. That is what my friend said they replied although I have no verification of that but I highly doubt they would respond with anything else.
When you have no conscience you can pump anything and once the people paid you will get your bonus money into your account. Being you are locked in basically for the 3-6 months waiting on splits it gives the people time to get sucked into the “Dream” it will happen.
By that time they likely convinced a few other people by then etc. The main guys will probably be able to keep pulling out their money being the volume they are producing by using a foreign account etc..
They can show “it works” .. Being they have been involved in other scams and have no issues apparently doing it and just claim ” I didn’t know” “Everyone was doing it so I thought it was legit” .. and then they are away with it.
IF the people pushing it in the states were reported to authorities then maybe action can be taken by the US to shut those people down at least. Although if never reported then they just keep doing the same thing.
So they don’t verify any information put in. KYC was bull**** all along.
Well the guys I know also have residence in Philippines and Thailand, so they changed the info to there. Although they still have not been able to withdraw for over 4 months.
So, apparently, it only took Onecoin 1 year and 8 months to figure out how to actually use a cryptocurrency.
According to our favorite vegetable, Kan Le’ Bean, Onecoin is now accepting bitcoin …presumably from bitcoiners …to purchase cryptocurrency education packages!!!
youtube.com/watch?v=dYnEwSrrmkQ
The irony! I guess you can add Onecoin to the list of the estimated 180,000+ merchants around the world who now accept bitcoin! With 30% mined almost a week ago now and with the promise, which began over a year ago, of merchant adoption announcement once this metric was met, they have fallen slighlty short of their goal.
Let’s see ….hmmmm. Okay, I’ve done the math.
The goal/ claim was to announce 500,000 merchants now accepting bitcoin and they missed the mark by ….hold on …..um ….yes! By EXACTLY 500,000 merchants.
Well, remember what the great Michael Jordan said, “You miss 100% of the baskets you don’t shoot for.” Only Onecoin has missed 500,000 of 500,000 for a perfect score of 0.00000000% Way to go, Team!
The downline team Ken is in (which I believe is mostly US citizens) are. OneCoin itself is not accepting BitCoin.
Basically they’re doing what TelexFree did. Affiliates generate credits and sell them to new recruits, pocketing the money paid for the credits rather than payment made directly to OneCoin.
Posted to OneCoin Facebook page today:
I would like to see the OneCoin Pumpers explain this simple fact to their investors.
They would love to explain it…..but they won’t…..because they can’t!
It will be explained by Juha and the rest as ” They are just hate bloggers. ” and nothing will change. They will go on trying to scam more people into it.
If someone making that comment would of changed anything…IT would of been changed back in July of last year …. everyone just breezes by the logic and focuses on the millions they will never see…
you guys dont realise that there are world top network marketing leaders promoting it (not ken labine or some fools like that, but trustworthy men), who would never start promoting a scam.
Why not?
You obviously weren’t around for Zeek Rewards. They held a presentation at a DSA event from memory.
Finally I am out I sold my account for less then half the price I entered!
OneCoin is totally a scam dont join as it’s collapsing in october. Mining time is taking up to 6 months, then they will keep your onecoins from exchange for other 40 days.
No answer from support or they get to you after days telling the same things. Plenty people are selling you OneCoins for 1 euro or less on facebook as Ruja told they will double OneCoin to members in the accounts in october. There’s nothing to back up that pyramid.
If you hope that OneCoin will be on exchange, listen this: ths system is full of lies and people who get sponsored enter without really know about how it works and they cant even escape, too late. You are a prisoner.
Additionally if you dont make your network you will not have privileges compared to who do, as an example with reduced mining time and escrew time.
Mastercard announced they never had an agreement with Ruja Ignatova they are liers.
How all this will benefit OneCoin trustability with all these lies even if they will be in blockchain after 2 years?
In october they announced also a faster exchange? Really? How? System is tremble already and no one is able to easily sell coins in the exchange, who do it is because someone who get 40% commission from network in trade account has to, no other reasons!
I said what has to be said. Now I am free. Never and ever again something like this. A nightmare.
ANMP, not DSA. It supposedly caused an uproar.
So what? Plenty of “top leaders” was pushing other scams.
If you want to talk other scams, it doesn’t come lower than Bernie Madoff himself. He used to be head of NASDAQ and has relatives among the highest ranks of tradings. WHo’d thought he’d run a Ponzi scheme?
Or if you want to talk network marketing… How about Vemma? How many “top leaders” where pushing that? How about FTHM? Equinox? (All were scams stopped by FTC and other agencies).
And just who do you consider “top leader”? Many of these leaders ran old schemes that got merged into OneCoin. They got INCENTIVES for folding in their members.
Don’t validate a scheme by a TINY MINORITY of people it attracts.
And what are the names of these “top network marketing leaders”?
It’s fairly safe to say that almost everyone knows OneCoin (or OneLife) is a ponzi scheme. The only people still holding out hope are those who have risked their reputation and are profiting from the promotion of it.
But just for fun, I’d like to ask any of the top investment advisors (like Tom McMurrain, Kevin Foster or Carl Wilt) try and explain the concept behind the OneCoin (or OneLife) splits.
In the real world……
So, how did OneCoin (or OneLife) manage to break the laws of the financial universe and create DOUBLE THE VALUE out of thin air?
At the same time, the company is paying out Millions of Euros to the people who bring in the most New Investors. Where does this money come from?
And finally, thanks to reporting from Oz and others, we now know that Ruja has spent 30 Million Euros on real estate recently.
How does she drain out such a large sum from the OneCoin (or OneLife) accounts and still have enough money left over to DOUBLE THE VALUE of every previous investor?
Source:
Read more: What is a stock split?
Investopedia NOLINK://investopedia.com/ask/answers/113.asp#ixzz4DJP56Hq9
OneLife announced that they soon beta testing on onecoinforex.
They will announce soon. More ponzi game from one coin?
Any new updates? Heard they had huge 15k conference in September in Thailand.
Click the “OneCoin” category label under the article’s title. You can see BehindMLM’s most recent OneCoin articles at the top of the list.
Amy news on onecoin?
I recently went to a seminar of onecoin in Amsterdam. It was new to me, i came because i was curious, the most of the time they were talking about there experience and what you can buy. Thats it!
I dont trust it at all! Why the police isnt do anything about it?
They only attract people who wanst to get rich fast.
@Sara
If you click the OneCoin category under the article header you’ll get the latest.
Well.. I started a test with one package. It is often said on OneCoin meeting & seminars that internal stockexchange is one way you can make return on investment before official launch.
Well.. see the results after almost one month.. onecoinexchange.blogspot.com
Nothing.. 🙁
It seems they have found a way to keep this thing ticking. Se Ruja explain it herself.. unbelievable, yet they believe it. These scammers just prey on the uneducated, cryin shame.
youtube.com/watch?v=HL-BlvGlQgY
Now they can convert their tokens to OFCs. WOW
Here’s a useful presentation that shows how many new recruitees are needed for selling coins in xcoinx.com: PDF and PNG image.
Ruja’s video has already said that Onecoin isn’t a currency it’s a random OFC type of share that will be floated on an asian exchange one day in the future.
This is garbage. Their product is selling shares in their own company then if they ever go on the stock market they can walk away from their liabilities. this is a perfect scam.
An excerpt from Swedish computer scientist and prominent Onecoin “hater” Petteri Jarvinen addresses the supposed OFC:
Four days ago, the company announced about a new figure: the company is listed on the stock exchange in Asia to one of next year’s second quarter.
The members may change Onecoin-play money in some form Future (ofc Future Certificates) to which the receiver will be in the company.
SOURCE: pjarvinen.blogspot.com/2017/01/joko-nyt-krp-puuttuu-onecoiniin.html?m=1
Why a company printing their own money to the tune of 50,000 coins per minute, worth 392,500€ in *real value (EUR >1 billion every 48hours) should seek “Public Funding” in the form of some OFC/ IPO is not explained by the company.
Outside of the *value of the currency itself – somewhere around EUR 3/4 Trillion (although it has no market, cannot be traded, and therefore it’s price cannot, by definition, be determined), what might the company’s total assets be?
They are a “software and technology company” who have built nothing, hold zero patents, have created nothing of use, other than failed, 3rd party, white-labeled products such as a 60€ tablet (which costs ~7000€ in ONE) and a MAB (Mobile App Builder) which victims …err …IMA’s must pay 1000€ for 1 Merchant or 5000€ for 7 Merchants JUST TO SIGN THEM UP(!!!).
What value is this? What “asset” is a #DealShitter platform to “compete with Groupon” when commissions to the #KleptoQueen become 50% of all EUR exchanged, and with a 1-2 week Escrow period on selling accounts for a *cryptocurrency (more aptly DISCOUNT COUPON) which has zero fungibility for real money through at least mid 2018, of ever?
ESPECIALLY WHEN 100% FREE APPS ABOUND, such as simple to use and popular “LetGo” and “OfferUp” – for which you can even find sellers accepting bitcoin, ironically!!!
If the company is minting nearly 400,000€ a minute (and soon to rise), as claimed; how trivial are such commissions from #DealShitter for Ruja and Company with under 6,000 “Merchants” even using the platform when it launches?
this is exacly what Frank Ricketts did with SiteTalk / OPN.. HE must be the mastermind behind the latest twists in Onecoin: SiteTalk OFC = OneCoin OFC and SiteTalk Deals = Dealshaker !!
it will end badly same like before.. Shares of GDS (Cyprus Stock Exchange) who owns SiteTalk are worth less than 0.05 Euro – this is how to walk away from liabilities.
It worked for them before it will work again.. who does not understand this must pay for his / her lesson.
So whats up when is this scam coming down!
When authorities in EU stop issuing responsibility shirking warnings and actually regulate.
It all over asia now like the plague poor people are putting up their saving cars and houses for this bull shit.
those scamming *unts need to get dealt with its disgusting *these scums need to get their heads cut off for real.
These cons are selling hot air and people flock to em like flies to shit in HOPE of their dreams coming true!
this is the worse kind of creates on this planet. lowest of the lowest no moral no integrity no honor -NO SOUL !
look at them you can see it in their faces and eyes they are not honest or good people!!!
(Ozedit: Over the line.)
when you engage in this scam the only way for you is to deceive sell the dream on to the next and worm in others in order to try and get your own ass covered – you sink lower than dirt ! you destroy your community.
and fellow people around you teaching them lies and deception. you betray their trust! you become a shell of a human being its disgusting on so many levels way beyond belief!
Nothing is real its only an illusion!
Wake the fuck up! stop cheating your own people we need to stick together and PRODUCE VALUE!!!
This biz model only “works” for the top! they have no real trade only shares of empty promises!!
there is nothing REAL to sell or buy with one coin! nothing outside in the real world will ever recognize this illusion and scam!
everything is in their OWN CONTROLLED NETWORK!! it will never work in the long run, never!!
you sheep need to fucking wake up and start producing something of real value!
scums like one coin ceos and partners need to rot up in jail they should be tortured and (Ozedit: Snip, a little to graphic.)
i wish death on these scums and everyone running with them a long and pain full death full of misery and suffering.
Interesting to see this thread opening up again after such along time . I am stunned that
1 OnecOin is till running
2 Believers still believe
3 The authorities are still not cracking down enough on these scammers (yes I see that it is starting to happen)
4 the persistent critics are still persevering
5. Greed and ignorance still prevail
Crazy
Onecoin is everything that is WRONG with today’s society. corrupted sick twisted creatures!
@Joethedoe: I feel compelled to point out that while it may seem that OneCoin is everywhere, in reality only a few thousand people at most are involved in each country where it operates, out of a population of millions. A tiny percentage.
OneCoin has apparently managed to scam a few hundred million dollars, which sounds huge, but if it was a legitimate business it wouldn’t make the FTSE 350, it would be classed as a “small company”. (These are, by nature, guesses, but I’d be happy to put money on them.)
There’s no wider social problem here. Some people are greedy and try to scam other greedy people, but most people are decent and hard-working. OneCoin is, for all its flashing lights and ludicrous puffery, an economically insignificant, pathetic joke.
Assuming you’re not somehow tied up in the scam then my advice is to relax, breathe and not read anything about OneCoin for a week.
Yes I agree chill out as it can seem overwhelming at times but as I said well done for our perseverance . Re-energise and regroup for awhile and congratulations to Bjorn in NORWAY .. Sweden next and let us hope that Karlsson gets jailed.
He has a track record and prior sentences and which I will post the details next week as I am waiting for him to give his reasons for the fraud. No better source than the horse’s mouth.
@Malthusian – Germany’s Financial regulatory authority seized €29M just from German accounts, but more significantly discovered that €360M had gone through these accounts in their country over just 12months. Onecoin has had roughly 2dozen accounts shut downaround the world.
The World Bank was involved in choosing one of its last and longest running accounts at Bank of Africa, Tanzania (also under IMS).
It was revealed in December 17th that “€10’s of millions” had ALSO been frozen in this account. IMS also handled Onecoin funds through an account in Singapore.
Considering the sheer number of international bank accounts and the volume of cash that was seized and presumably accounted for in just two, it’s fairly safe to say that Onecoin has conservatively taken in over a billion euro (>€6.5B according to the numbers of the company – which of course can’t be trusted).
So, no. I disagree with you. This is NOT some small change. It is potentially the largest operating global scam, at present.
@Malthusian
A good way to estimate the amount of money scammed by OneCoin so far is the German BaFin report that said estimated 360 million euros had moved through the three German bank accounts OneCoin had in German banks.
Those banks mainly handled the money of European “investors”. In addition to that there have been over 10 other bank accounts (arguably with smaller traffic) and then bitcoin payments and the current cash-based money gathering.
Most likely the other bank accounts together have routed more money than the German banks so it is not out of the question that the total amount of money scammed so far exceeds 1 billion euros.
OneCoin LIABILITIES EXCEED HALF A TRILLION EUROS!!!!
OneCoin has given out lots of false numbers but what seems to have been the case over the last 18 months or so is that the average OneCoin investor has been putting in about 1000 Euros -that is the thing about large volume averages they tend to keep relatively stable over time.
As there are alleged to be over 3 million Affiliates that gets me to over 3 Billion Euro Inputs and you can take off about 80% of that in commissions and network and money laundering, real estate etc.
I would be genuinely surprised if they have 500 million euro liquid assets as they are not redeemable. But what I do know is that 50 billion coins at 12.45 each is over 600 Billion liabilities -not if you exchange them for useless Vouchers with no value (OFFICIALLY WORTHLESS as there terms and conditions state).
Any disaffected should sue their uplines when this is proven correct -get Dimitri to do an audit -remember him?
It is scheduled to get worse in Ruja’s vision –Ed Ludbrooke’s youtube video (April 2017) shows sales momentum mining of over 100 billion coins by this time next year and if we use a conservative estimate of 20 Euros per coin that is 2 trillion Euros worth of useless coins with little left for circulation after the alleged IPO.
I wish I had been eligible to continue to receive the EDUCATION so I could have worked out that particular conundrum. But I got fired because they couldn’t meaningfully answer any questions.
But hey I can access the PDF’s for free on the net as they are not copyright-how could plagiarised documents be protected (429 pages of rubbish to work through without mentioning OneCoin once).
BEST WAY TO GET THE REAL NUMBER IS FOR PIERRE THE NEW CEO TO TELL US -HE WAS A BANKER.
Does anyone have his email address?
@cryptokill – I messaged him from my premium LinkedIn account, but he failed to respond and then blocked me.
(Ozedit: “ebil gubmint” offtopic derail attempts removed)
@crptokill – JUST ANNOUNCED! Tom McMurrain, Peter Shaw, “Dr.” Mohammad Zafar in Ireland on June 14,2017 at Corkaigh Suite, Red Cow Inn: The Red Cow Complex, Naas Rd., Dublin 22, D22R5P3.
Picket maybe? Report surely?
ONECOIN SHARE VOUCHERS ARE WORTHLESS –OFFICIAL
Member of Dutch Parliament asks Ministers of Justice and Finance about pyramid scheme of OneCoin:
zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kv-tk-2017Z08416.html
Translation:
I’ll update once the Ministers have awnsered the questions.
Oh dear, what’s happened now? I found another “OneCoin”:
share-your-photo.com/img/2260a7b3a5.png
Source: onecoinnetwork.github.io/web/
What us “Raven R”? How does this fit in at OneCoin? Is it still here? Can they gice us back our money?
Thank you
Dawon
Raven R was part of the money laundering ring. There is no money to give back, it was stolen by Ponzi scammers.
RAVENR CAPITAL LIMITED was dissolved on January 12, 2021:
share-your-photo.com/332e071d40
The website ravenr.com has always been extremely informative:
share-your-photo.com/40920e53b0
The domain registration of March 16, 2014:
share-your-photo.com/4b45f453ab
Three months later, eight years ago today, on June 23, 2014, the domain onecoin.eu was registered with an email address from ravenr.com:
share-your-photo.com/d7614622f4
What does former director of RAVENR CAPITAL LIMITED, Gary Michael Gilford, know about this company? He was director of a total of six companies, all of which have been dissolved. He has referred to himself as a lawyer on several occasions. Has he ever been questioned by the police or prosecutors, or are the British judiciary fast asleep?
share-your-photo.com/0113cde92f
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/EMyOYOruwGLIIVOFkk2BB0Zc0lE/appointments
The following photo shows Gary Gilford (left), Sascha Bailey (center) and Duncan Arthur (right):
share-your-photo.com/bdec0a8745
Gary Gilford has also worked for Duncan Arthur:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/new-dealshaker-abandoned-is-this-onecoins-final-collapse/#comment-414449
Gary Gilford’s name has been mentioned many times on BehindMLM. Some examples.
A comment by WhistleBlowerFin:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantin-arrested-criminal-charges-filed-against-ruja-ignatova/#comment-410697
A comment by Semjon:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantin-arrested-criminal-charges-filed-against-ruja-ignatova/#comment-410691
A comment by OneCon Squad Sofia:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/mark-scott-sentencing-delayed-9th-nov-retrial-motion-insight/#comment-443360
A post by Oz:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/onecoin-leaks-hogan-lovells-second-legal-opinion-2017/
A comment by Semjon:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416535
Several comments by Gary Gilford himself:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416709
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416741
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416761
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416764
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/konstantins-testimony-drops-one-onecoin-bombshell-after-another/#comment-416768
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/ruja-ignatovas-warning-underscores-onecoin-mafia-ties/#comment-417026
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/ruja-ignatovas-warning-underscores-onecoin-mafia-ties/#comment-417027
Two very informative comments by Semjon:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/what-happened-to-onecoin-ceos-pablo-munoz-and-pierre-arens/#comment-413584
Gary Gilford in the video Semjon quoted from:
share-your-photo.com/401da40b88
https://behindmlm.com/companies/onecoin/what-happened-to-onecoin-ceos-pablo-munoz-and-pierre-arens/#comment-413633
Gary Gilford on LinkedIn. Now he no longer calls himself a lawyer, but a “Senior Legal Counsel”:
share-your-photo.com/35e79e196f
linkedin.com/in/garygilford/
PS: I believe every lie that this dubious lawyer spreads. My mother said that lawyers never lie…