Polaris Global, Scientology and Facebook (again!)
Earlier this month Polaris Global held their Sovereignty Live event in Whistler BC, Canada.
So far, details of the how the Sovereignty Live event went have been pretty scarce. Naturally then when Polaris Global decided to publish some photos of the event on Christmas Day, I browsed over to take a look (link originally provided by BehindMLM reader ‘Boris‘).
As I browsed around the various photo galleries that had been uploaded last Saturday, I decided to have a deeper look at Polaris Global’s Facebook profile as it’d been a while since I last checked it out.
No further had I gone then their main profile page when I found myself amazed at what I was seeing.
Dead centre of the page was a quote referenced from none other than Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.
Polaris Global and Scientology? Not again guys!
As you can see the Hubbard quote was uploaded by a Lori Moore and as of the 29th December 2010, is still very much publicly viewable from Polaris Global’s main Facebook Profile page.
Amusingly five people have ‘liked’ the quote since it was published less than twenty four hours ago.
The quote reads as follows;
One can feel that things are such now, that it is much too late to do anything, that one’s past road is so messed up that there is no chance of drawing a future one that will be any different: there is always a point on the road when one can map a new one and try to follow it. There is no person alive who cannot make a new beginning”
– L Ron Hubbard
Now obviously Facebook isn’t the official Polaris Global website but their profile is used quite frequently in an official capacity. Links to it feature quite prominently on Polaris Global’s website, whilst a quick glance reveals that it’s used quite frequently by Polaris Global distributors and management to communicate with eachother.
This isn’t the first time Polaris has been linked to Scientology over Facebook either. The first instance was then Executive Marketing Council (EMC) member Shannon Lavenia (now with GiveOpp), publicly called on Polaris Global members to join her for a ‘productivity workshop’ at the Hubbard College of Administration. This was the first ever public link made between Scientology and Polaris Global and with over 400 comments posted and a sizeable chunk of Polaris Global’s EMC resigning before the end of 2009, caused quite a stir.
With the drama that the connection between Scientology and Polaris Global (formerly Polaris Media Group) has perviously caused, which ultimately resulted in Shane Krider, CEO of Polaris Global publicly admitting he is a Scientologist after months of speculation, why Polaris Global would risk any association or alignment with any religious organisation is a mystery.
One can’t help but wonder if Lori Moore was a Scientologist before she joined Polaris Global, or if she decided to join the religious as a direct result of her participation with the company.
Whether the quote will be removed by Polaris management remains to be seen. On its own it might very well be applicable to Polaris Global as a business, but given the company’s history is sure to at the very least raise some eyebrows within the ranks.
Having author and producer of Polaris Global’s product line, Gregory Strom claiming that Polaris’ ‘video and written course products have consistently avoided any particular political or religious belief system as a matter of company policy,‘ is a hard pill to swallow when you’ve got Polaris distributors publishing L. Ron Hubbard Scientology quotes to Polaris Global’s official Facebook Profile.
A friend brought this to my attention so I thought I would set the record straight even though I find it quite amusing. I wasn’t aware I was a scientologist, I didn’t even know who Ron Hubbard was. What even is scientology? Science wasn’t my forte in school bahaha! Yes, I find what you’ve written hilarious!
Seriously though, I am not a scientologist, never was and never will be (remembering the quote “not that there’s anything wrong with it!” It’s irrelevant what anyone chooses to believe in!), I liked the quote regardless of who wrote it and thought I’d post it. I love personal development and the choices we have in life to better ourselves and that is all that matters to me.
I love being part of the Polaris community, a group of positive like-minded people of entrepreneurial spirit who do not judge others on their religion, beliefs, race, colour or sexual preferences for that matter. A community and business that encourages and applauds personal growth on all levels.
Hi Lori,
Uh… you’re seriously claiming you had no idea who L Ron Hubbard was or what Scientology is prior to reading this article?
L. Ron Hubbard isn’t usually someone quoted as an inspiration reference by anyone but Scientologists. If you’re not one (and I don’t doubt that you aren’t if you say so), then where exactly did you copy and paste the quote from?
Whilst this might be true, think about the fact that Polaris is in the field of ‘personal development’. Personal development inevitably covers spirituality and the CEO of Polaris is a Scientologist.
What happens if your own personal development goes against the teaching of Scientology? Do you think Krider is going to compromise religious beliefs in an official capacity?
Everything that Polaris teaches has to be Scientology approved and sanctioned or Krider himself wouldn’t be able to participate. Not much use being the CEO of a personal development company if you can’t participate now is it?
Glad you got a kick out of the article, I too find it hilarious when after everything that they’ve been through Polaris still manage to link themselves to Scientology in one way or another.
And the plot thickens! As of the 30th December, 2010 the Scientology Hubbard quote has been removed from Polaris’ Facebook Profile page.
Wonder if Lori removed it or whether it was Polaris Global themselves…? And more importantly, why?
It’s harder to safepoint suspicious people – and a lot of people would be suspicious if they know an organization is linked to Scientology.
The $cientology link was what drew my attention to Polaris in the first place. Their phraseology and speech patterns reflect the type of gobbledygook emanating from the cult itself.
Once Krider publicly acknowledged his belief in the mad ravings of L.Ron Hubbard it was only a matter of time before others in Polaris were shown to be at least associated with it’s teachings. As Oz correctly points out, the teachings of Polaris cannot, in all credibility conflict with the beliefs of Polaris’ own chief executive. $cientology is a sinister evil cult,
—entertain it at your peril.
Hubbard is a fine sci-fi author, so quoting one of his characters may be understandable, but quoting his Dianetics books and other scientology stuff is just begging for trouble.
This quote is from the polaris global facebook wall. Looks like this guy will head to Tahiti for the 5 day event for two people. The wholesale price is $12,995. I hope he’s not paying retail of $16,245. Just makes me cringe.
Me too Boris. These poor people getting sucked into what we were trying to warn them about. Especially in a context where people are losing so much at the moment.
Let’s hope they are not taking advantage of people in QLD suffering devastation from the floods and looking for a way to make money.
Please do your research before you commit. I wish I had been wiser, but wow was it a learning experience. Am so happy and grateful that my sources of income are legitimate and that we invest in property and other types of investments where I can sleep at night knowing I’m not trying to peddle absolute overpriced crap.
As I’ve said many times before, I am passionate about personal development. Could have gotten turned off by my LLI experience. But I am glad I stuck with it and have been to Tony Robbins’ seminars. Not even close to what PMG/LLI charge and they were absolutely awesome experiences.
Tony Robbins is one guy who knows what he’s talking about and has dedicated his life to learning from people who are masters in their field. Now that is credibility.
Oz and Boris,
Is the Facebook page for Polaris Global ‘globally’ or just Australia?
I am shocked and saddened to see how many Aussies are being named as joining PGM, that’s if they are real newbies and people aren’t just making it up to keep the ‘buzz’ going.
Aussies, beware of what you are getting yourself into. They are talking about the floods which so many people are devastaed by and the person hosting the BFE call has been ‘so inspirational’.
Let me guess “Suck it up people, things could be worse, you’ll be ok, just spend more money on PGM and you’ll be right. How about you go and generate some leads in Brisbane now? We are what these people need”
These people live in a fantasy world and what concerns me is that they will genuinely be thinking they will be helping flood victims to offer them this business opportunity.
Brisbane and flood affected people, stay away from this business opportunity! You have enough devastation and loss to deal with. Don’t go into debt to line the coffers of PGM and the deluded people who follow this cult.
Grammatical/word choice correction, should have said ‘global’ instead of ‘globally’ – whoops! I’m sure you know what I meant!
It really concerns me there is no activity whatsoever from the US and other countries and it’s all Aussies. Shows that Aussies are proactive, gotta give them that, but sad to see they are conning their fellow Aussies into a dream that will come crashing down when the brainwashing bubble bursts.
Get out while you can. Read the stories of people who have lost thousands.
@Carla
As far as I know the company still operate globally and had members from the US, Europe and Australia at their moct recent Whistler event.
The boom they had in Australia back in 2009 has long gone though but Polaris still seem to be attracting enough new blood to remain viable.
You can get Tony Robbins stuff on TED / Youtube easily enough. Not a lot, but it’s free. 😀
Rachel looks either pregnant or both her and Krider are packing on the lbs.
Yeah there’s a baby on the way. Not too sure about Krider though, maybe they’re having twins!
Shane certainly has gotten extremely chubby in the past year. Maybe he needs some personal development programme to help him lose a few kilos. I wouldn’t recommend “Beyond Freedom Evolution”—–Way too expensive.
It is such a surprise to me that people are so interested in writing about things they know nothing about….I was in Liberty League and then Polaris Media Group for about a year and a half. I have since moved onto another MLM, I needed a new direction, but I have stayed in contact.
I know that there are great bunch of leaders there…In the study courses you will see quotes and writings from a number of great Leaders from our past…None of it is focused on anyone religion. Because religion for everyone is different…
The only focus I ever noticed was that we were to focus on our own Personal Development, there were general guidelines to get us started. But the path is different for everyone, we all have different goals. I believe you will find this in almost all personal development courses.
It has been my experience in the past and I could be wrong in this instance, that people who write negative information about others do so because they are jealous of them or are unhappy with their own lives.
@Keri. — Unfortunately Keri, the large sums of money which LLI and Polaris have extracted from sometimes vulnerable people shows that the so called leaders of the companies are much more interested in lining their own pockets than improving the wellbeing of their “distributors”.
This could actually not be farther from the truth. I for one contribute to this discussion out of concern for those I know cannot afford to part with large amounts of money to go “full boat” with Shane and Rachel.
I have reached a very comfortable and contented middle age and have no need for jealousy in my life. I often go to the type of locations, (Tahiti, Thailand, London, Zurich etc.) shown on the distributors clone pages, but without paying over inflated prices to do so.
That being the case then Boris isn’t it time to let it go! You have been denigrating Polaris, Shane and Rachel and all the leadership (in fact anyone that made/makes money) for as long as I can remember.
Your “concern” is misplaced. Anyone that chooses to invest in a business or invest in anything for that matter, conventional or otherwise takes a risk. That’s a fact we can all depend on.
Boris you chose to take that risk when you joined LLI as did I. Had you at least got a return on your financial investment you wouldn’t be bitching, oh sorry…I mean “contributing” here for the last 2 years.
Out of “concern” I suggest you just go live your wonderful life and let others live theirs.
Im with Boris, the fact is that 1-3% make decent money,thats one hell of a failure rate, and yes I know “they didnt follow the system”
Plus who wants to make any money ripping off people…..Lies and scammers…don’t go there people.
@ Truth Prevails you are 100% incorrect. I have never had anything to do with LLI or Polaris. I have never given them a single cent. My first experience with them was when I saw the ad for Rachel Oliver’s company UXL on Foxtel and I smelled a very stinky rat.
I have long been a critic of $cientology and the similarities between the type of hard sell employed by the two organisations were immediately apparent to me. It was only later that the connection between $cientology and Polaris was made public with Shane Krider’s revelations.
If you care to read my earlier posts you will see that I have consistently criticised Polaris for it’s money scamming activities which in fact mirror those of Krider’s self confirmed “religion” / scam.
There is a huge difference being conned vs. joined voluntarily having been made aware of ALL the risk factors.
The “thank you for your concern (don’t you have something better to do)” excuse is an old excuse… and irrelevant. It does not address the cause of the concern at all. It’s basically a politely phrased ad hominem attack.
So Boris it would seem you are obsessed with one man! If this is not the case why don’t you condemn with the same obsessive passion the other MLM companies operated and/or lead by other known Scientologists such as Give Op/John and Shanon Lavenia or Avant/Gene Braxton after all it was Shanon that invited people to attend the Scientology courses.
We are lead to believe this blog is to review and discuss MLM companies not a forum to debate religious beliefs of any sort. I have not observed criticism of Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Satanism or anything else on this blog! Just Scientology!!!
I was with LLI and Polaris for several years as I have indicated previously. I enjoyed the company of leadership including Shane Krider on numerous occasions and not once was the subject of Scientology brought up, I was never asked to join, attend a course or asked about my own personal religious views.
I still maintain close friendships with several people in Polaris and likewise their experience has been like mine where no mention of Scientology has occurred. I find it interesting that you would use this forum for your own personal witch hunt of one man (given that as far as anyone knows, the other members of LLI and Polaris that were attached to Scientology left during or around the end of 09)
You say above “If you care to read my earlier posts you will see that I have consistently criticised Polaris for it’s money scamming activities which in fact mirror those of Krider’s self confirmed “religion” / scam.” Therefore I am lead to believe that as you never had anything to do with Polaris your concern is based entirely on the hearsay of a minority rather than any personal experience or knowledge of the company, founder or products yet you still make reference to “religion”/ “scam.”
Apparently you are an expert on Scientology Boris but it appears not so when it comes to this particular MLM company that you so frequently condemn.
Prove me wrong Boris that this is not a personal religious vendetta based on your own unhappy experiences with the Church of Scientology and if it is please take it to another forum.
@ Oz I am all for exposing corruption but draw the line on any form of persecution. Surely this is a clear case of religious persecution? Let’s get this forum back to what it’s about.
The blogger here at behindmlm.com does a good job reviewing MLMs. And the link between this particular MLM Polaris Global Marketing and Scientology would be a valid concern for many people looking to join a networking marketing company.
The difference between the religions that you mentioned and Scientology is that none of the others were made up by a science fiction writer with the sole purpose of enriching himself. All religions have their scandals, but Scientology in particular is a predatory organization that maintains an iron grip on it’s followers utilizing the same techniques as cults: deception, intimidation, isolation, exclusivism, etc…
Scientology is an organization that sells a product. It’s a shame that they are allowed to claim religious status. And if this company Polaris Global Marketing was founded by a Scientologist, it’s because Scientology allowed it to happen.
It’s not persecution to expose Scientology for what it is – a cult that defrauds people, isolates it’s adherents and destroys families. It’s history is well documented, and the US Govt. begrudgingly gave them religious status. Several other countries refuse to extend that same courtesy.
And it’s not persecution to point out that a company is linked to Scientology…..especially a personal development company.
Scientology maintains such strict control over their adherents that Mr. Krider would have had to gain their permission and input on his venture. Not to mention that Scientology considers it’s products to be personal development, and would in no way allow one of their members to offer a competing product….which means that the product must be inline with it’s doctrine to gain approval.
People that don’t care one or another about Scientology the “religion” would still be concerned to know that their obscenely expensive personal development program was influenced by that same organization, which was founded by a lunatic megalomaniac.
Read more about him here: http://www.ronthenut.org/
I’m not suggesting Beyond Freedom was written by L. Ron Hubbard himself and yes I acknowledge that everyone’s personal development will be different.
What I argue though is that whilst personal development is a unique journey for us all, by following the Polaris program you are (whether you’re aware of it or not) being guided by the personal development principles in line with that of Scientology.
You have to be otherwise Polaris CEO Shane Krider wouldn’t himself be able to use nor reccomend Polaris’ products.
My life has its ups and downs, the same as anybody else. The downs certainly aren’t my sole motivation for running my two blogs.
If anything I wish I had more time to spend on this one, I’ve got quite a backlog of articles to write and I always feel like I’m behind the 8 ball.
Polaris seems to have targeted Australia, the country I happen to live in, so I think it appropriate to comment on their activities more than the other scams. Give (fl)opp and Avant have been spectacular failures as noted previously.
$cientology is the only “religion” which charges exhorbitant amounts of money to reveal the deepest secrets of it’s theology. Bit like Polaris really.
I’m very glad you find it so interesting. That is the whole point. The more people who discover the truth, the more the truth prevails.
97% of those who invested time and money in LLI/PMG might disagree.
My personal experiences in helping innocent people escape from the clutches of the evil cult of $cientology have been extremely happy. And NO I will not take it to another forum just to please the scammers out there.
When I read this pathetic bleating post, I laughed heartily to myself, because there’s nothing I enjoy more than seeing cultists squirm.
@truth prevails
As evidenced by this article, Polaris seem to keep linking themselves to Scientology. This wouldn’t be such a big deal if it weren’t for past events.
How far up in Polaris did you get?
There’s been documented proof of Polaris EMC asking members to attend Scientology courses and ex-EMC Elena Fraga came close to spilling some beans but cited confidentiality agreements that all EMC were made to sign.
I’ve always wondered what that was about…
Your experience might have been different but that discount everything else that went on.
Personally I don’t recognise the Scientology business as a religion so I fail to see any link between criticising it and religious persecution.
I don’t write about about Scientology on here unless there’s a link between Scientology and an MLM company (as is the continued case with Polaris).
I am a marketing student who happened to be looking for work in the industry to gain experience when I encountered Polaris Global.
I do not recall the job advertisement details but it was on gumtree.com – from what I have learned, associates are exhausting all avenues in order to bring in new people. The job listing had little to no detail about the nature of the role and this set off alarm bells in my head.
I was called up by a woman for an initial interview; she was not very straightforward with details but now I know that she was screening to see how desperate I was to make money.
She asked me direct questions about how much I would like to make and seemed unsatisfied over my emphasis on gaining new knowledge to complement my studies. Eventually I was referred to this
http://www.pgoverview.com/pgoverview/Account/PGOverview.aspx
and told to watch the videos and then get back to her. I have not done so and do not intend to. What I suspected was too good to be true and a bad idea has been confirmed by digging around and also by this very informative blog.
Thanks Oz!
P.S If anyone want’s to know more recent info about PGM, just follow the link and log in. The user name is “take” and password is “action”. Have a sick bag ready for all the cringe worthy lines and cheesy upbeat music.
I had a look at the Polaris overview page as recommended by Cygnus and listened to Rachel Oliver expounding on how great “Beyond Freedom” was for helping achieve your goals such as quitting smoking and losing weight. Very ironic really considering how Rach has seldom been seen over the past years without a cancer stick close by and now Shane is piling on the pounds. Obviously neither has done the course.
The overview itself is drivel. Just a rehashing of all the crap peddled by Liberty League.
The second part of the site which is devoted to “Products” is pure $cientology. Just compare the video to those on the http://www.scientology.org website and you will see what I mean.
Polaris is trying hard to flog the social media revolution especially facebook. Those harmed by Polaris and Liberty League have a chance to express their opinions by going to the polaris facebook site,
–scroll to the bottom left and report the page as a scam/fraud. Facebook will take notice.
Thanks for sharing your experience Cygnus.
How the vagueness and fishing to see how desperate tactics employed by Polaris associates actually work on anyone is beyond me.
And I agree with Boris… looking through those videos on the overview page, nothing much appears to have changed since Liberty League!
Keep up the great work of exposing this ‘business’ for what it is guys.
Boris, I don’t know much about Scientology, have actually been learning through this website from people like you who seem to understand its tenets.
I find it very interesting to note those who have outright attacked you on here recently for exposing LLI/PMG. One in particular who talks about the length of time you’ve been on here. How would those people know that if they too hadn’t been following this blog? Hmmm, hypocritical of them?
Those of us who continue to come back to this blog do so to warn people who may be blindly walking into something which promises them the world and seldom delivers. In fact, most people get more than what they bargained for in the form of being fleeced financially and left with a trail of destruction emotionally, financially, not to mention the impact on our relationships when people get the satisfaction of saying ‘i told you so’ when it comes to the ‘too good to be true’ opportunity.
I’m not a skeptical person which is why I was one of those people who got suckered in. Now I’ve been burned I am a lot more discerning when looking at opportunities and that’s a good thing for me.
Boris has simply outlined the fact that a very very low percentage of people succeed in the business and yet PMG are happy to keep operating on this basis. I guess those at the top only like to associate with the creme de la creme of crooks? Yes, traditional businesses have a failure rate too, but I would rather run a traditional business and maintain my integrity and ethics than go out of my way to brain wash people into giving me money.
It seems that a lot of Aussies are joining PMG and that concerns me too Boris, being an Aussie as well. I guess we are easy pickings being a pretty open minded kind of bunch? I am so glad to say I never took advantage of anyone else and didn’t succeed by their definition. Oh man, best thing that ever happened to me.
I think it’s great you keep on sharing Boris. At the end of the day, those of us who are passionate about this issue will keep on doing so and those who are passionate about PMG will keep doing so as well. Yes, we are locked in totally opposing positions, but interesting to note how many have come across from the dark side battered, bruises and sometimes broken from their experience.
Sad indeed…
I am glad I googled Polaris & got onto this blog. I am at a point in my life where I vulnerable having had 10 weeks off work & scepticle about going back. I contacted one of the Aussie reps and have reviewed the products.
I first thought that Yes I could do this. Then I reviewed it all again & religion popped into my mind. When I read your articles & scientology came up, I realised that I don’t need this, I can go on with my life without these products & be happy.
I have found a lot of other info on the web to help me for my return to work and I too feel that the Aussies are going into this in a big way. Many testimonials on the Polaris site are from Australians.
Thank you for enlightening me!!
No worries Wendy, glad you got something out of it.
The above quote is taken from the polaris global facebook page. I wonder how long it will remain there.
Rosana seems to be a bit misguided, Beyond Freedom isn’t about making money (is it?), it’s a personal development course.
You make money in Polaris by getting other people to buy the course itself.
Whatever you do, don’t get involved in this company. It is a scam.
Remember, “A fool and his money are easily parted.”
Also, “When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience ends up with the money and the man with money ends up with the experience!”
I too recently found a couple of ads on a job seeking website about Polaris Global and have since found reference to it in other “work from home” opportunities.
When watching the videos supplied (I’m assuming that Cygnus and I had discussion with the same individual) I came to realise a couple of things about this “business” model.
1. This is not a “be your own boss” home business … you are compensated by the Polaris Global marketing machine for lead qualification and generation.
2. The video talks of “selling product” though I cannot find anyone anywhere actually promoting the home study or seminars as a purchasable item … What is expected is that you recruit others to the program.
3. Unless you purchase (or sell) the program, you are not activated and do not receive any downstream commissions. Ergo, the push for the “distributors” is to recruit … recruit as many people as you can possibly find that have a desire to improve themselves and are most likely to jump onboard and purchase the home study to become activated with the promises future of riches.
Once your recruit purchases the program to “activate” themselves, you see your commissions and look for the next target, I mean “opportunity”.
4. I cannot find any information anywhere on the “A-list” speakers and content of the seminars or the home study … I’m all for personal development and I am currently doing other home study programs, but you at least want it to be transparent with either a breakdown of what the package includes, or a free introductory event etc. to see if it’s right for you before forking out the $$$
I’m all for personal development, wealth creation etc. but I like to know what I’m getting myself into before diving in head first.
Cheers.
D’oh …. forgot to subscribe to future comments
THIS HELP ME HEAPS THANK U BUT I NEED MORE INFO THEY HAVE GOT ME THINKING YES YES YES DO IT BUT I STILL FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS WRONG HELP ME
Keep in mind that your
is how they are going to make their commissions and the only way that you’ll make money is to purchase the system and try and get others to go
as well.
Can you make money? Probably
Will you be satisfied that you’ve added value to the world? Probably not
Gumtree is basically Craigslist type classified for South Africa. It does No culling whatsoever. There’s a TON of TVI Express ads on there as well. I would not trust ANY sort of offering on Gumtree at all (gumtree.co.za if I remember right)
We have gumtree in Australia too. Not sure if it’s the same company but definitely the same name.
@I’m currently being pulled into …
Here’s some help – “GUMP hunting”
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=186771
Scroll to top of page – read post 1 and 2 (the 2 posts by “deadintoit”) – are you a Sam Salesman or a George Gump? This may be the right choice if you are a Sam Salesman (or like to become one). It’s a bad choice for Good Unexperienced Money People.
Polaris Global Marketing‘s previous names were Polaris Media Group (some months 2009-2010), and Liberty League International (2001 to 2009 – when it was declared a pyramid scheme in Australia). Their product line changed for a while to become more legal, but their current product line looks very similar to what they had in 2009.
You will find 49 articles about LLI/PMG/PGM at BehindMLM, covering a period from june 2009 to spring 2010 – some of them with hundreds of comments.
Read the most interesting first, and of course you don’t have to read all of them. I used 3 weeks myself to read most of them (including the comments) in 2009 – using 1-2 hours a day (as a research on Wealth Masters International).
You can predict a company’s future if you look at it’s pre-history. The history tends to repeat itself over and over again. Minor changes in a productline won’t change much.
NOTE: I have not studied their current concept thoroughly, but I checked all the presentation videos a month ago (take + action).
Below is a quote from the Polaris Global Facebook page .
Poor Carlton. If he manages to raise the cost of one of these events, he will have to convince several more people to do the same thing so he can make his money back. I don’t fancy his chances. I’m sure his advisor will try to persuade him to borrow the money.
Can we get the facts straight once and for all please!
M_Norway demonstrates so clearly that this blog is certainly more opinion based than fact based and that very little shared on this site can be taken seriously or as a credible source of information.
As a former associate of Liberty League International I would like it to be known to all readers on Behind MLM that LLI was never at any point deemed to be a pyramid scheme. PERIOD.
The article in the NSW OFT that is so often misquoted stated that – QUOTE “Ms Judge said the promotional material of a marketing scheme known as Liberty League may potentially breach the Fair Trading Act.” UNQUOTE
And later in the article – QUOTE “Ultimately it is for a court to determine if Liberty League is a pyramid selling scheme,” Ms Judge said. UNQUOTE.
Please note the words “MAY POTENTIALLY” and “IT IS FOR A COURT TO DETERMINE”.
As the NSW OFT or the ACCC did not pursue legal action in any form against LLI it was never deemed a pyramid scheme.
Anyone wanting to verify this for themselves can call the NSW OFT or the ACCC.
@Boris
Ugh, nothing worse than hearing about people who don’t have the money try to raise it for things that don’t directly generate them any more money.
After the conference then what? It’s not like going to Polaris conferences instantly guarantees you barrels of incoming cashflow.
@truth prevails
I’d refer you to this (no doubt familiar) artcle and its followup.
The NSW Office of Fair Trading announced in writing that they had received ‘legal advice confirming that the scheme (Liberty League) is a pyramid sales scheme within the meaning of the act‘.
LLI was found to be a pyramid scheme by the NSW Office of Fair Trading, this is simply undeniable. Was LLI found to be a pyramid scheme by an Australian court?
No. But a case never went to trial.
Most likely I suspect due to the Polaris changeover and overall limited scope of the business. Fair Trading most likely decided it wasn’t worth going after the company given the complete overhaul of the business structure (which massively flopped after they legalized it).
If the case did wind up in court though, want to know how many cases Fair Trading have lost against pyramid schemes?
None.
It’s not a term they brandy about lightly nor is it something they follow up in court unless they’re damn sure. In this case they were confident enough to go public and on the record as stating that Liberty League was a pyramid scheme.
Make of that what you will.
Here’s 2 pertinent facts.
No.1 Polaris Global is a pyramid scam, which means that most participants make most of their money from recruiting others to the scam.
No.2 Polaris is run by $cientologists, which needs no explanation.
@truth prevails
My answer was a direct response to a specific part of a comment, not an analysis of the company.
I interpreted this as she was asking for more information.
“Gump hunt” is relevant to the sales process you have to learn. Most people can not close their eyes to reality – they become gradually aware that the vast majority of participants lose money. They become gradually aware of their own expenses, too. You can not think yourself out of such conditions with positive thinking. Most participants will get worse economy because of their participation. I believe it’s more fair if we say this straight forward than if we try to make a positive impression of the concept (as an income opportunity).
The 49 articles I linked to is also relevant. They give a good picture of how this developed in 2009, if she reads some of the comments, too. The comments are from both perspectives. She will find comments defending LLI and comments criticizing it – and some interesting stories from former participants (like “I was one of the successfull participants. I sold for $200,000 in the first eight months, but my expenses was $198,000”). They simply drain people for money – money most of them don’t have.
My description was accurate as a “superficial presentation of the case” – and it was not intended to be an accurate legal analysis. I also used the expression “declared pyramid” instead of “convicted”.
I left it to her to decide what she will choose to read, suggesting “start with the most interesting” – meaning her interests instead of mine.
I have clearly stated that I consider these concepts as a kind of pyramid scam, it means that I am not trying to give the impression of being neutral. I can provide further details about my “lack of neutrality” if anyone wants it?
I mean totally sincere and from a neutral point of view that she will find valuable information in the links.
NOTE:
I write in Norwegian, and use Google translator to translate into English. This means that some words and phrases are not quite correctly translated. It also means that I choose to simplify many descriptions along the way – that I knowingly fails to elaborate on the details. I offer only the most relevant details.
Once again Boris, this is your personal opinion and not fact!
1. Polaris Global is not a pyramid scheme. If it was it simply wouldn’t be operating in Australia. All participants making money make all of their money through the distribution of products.
2. Polaris is not run but Scientologists (plural) but rather one of the 3 company owners follows SOME of the principals of Scientology.
I won’t argue this point with you again as we all know how you feel personally about Scientology and I’m not here to comment on that as it’s of no consequence to me however again you attempt to condemn a business that you have very little personal knowledge.
Anyone reading the posts on the facebook page will appreciate the passion, enthusiasm and positive energy that the Polaris community enjoy, one of the reasons I continue to support them.
If we’re going to make statements to assist others looking at business opportunities as per your comments on previous posts then let’s make those statements honest and true. Your personal opinion on Polaris is old, worn and tired Boris.
@M_Norway, I appreciate that you are translating into English and therefore some statements may read differently than you intended but please be aware that the 49 “articles” you refer to on this site and or Oz are blog posts reflecting largely personal opinion posted by a minority of people.
Oz himself has often caught people out to be posting under many other names attached to the one IP address. I find it interesting that anyone would post their thoughts and opinions here without first hand knowledge.
Your area of expertise appears to be with WMI rather than LLI or Polaris.
@Oz I find so much contradiction in what you claimed in your article regarding your conversation with NSW OFT and the conversations that I had with them.
Either it depends on who answers your call as to what information they’re willing to divulge or it depends on personal interpretation and what you want to hear!
I called the NSW OFT and the ACCC on 3 separate occasions during the period we refer to in 2009 and again during 2010 and on each occasion each officer confirmed that they could neither recommend nor condemn LLI/Polaris as that was not their job.
They could only provide information that was available to them and they could not provide me with any information regarding LLI being a pyramid scheme other than the one document that appeared on the NSW OFT website.
The document that you claimed to have received from them appears to be unique as I was informed that it is not usual practice for them to issue such documents. The last conversation I had with the ACCC which is the higher controlling body, being at the Federal level, was that LLI/Polaris was not under investigation.
To be rehashing all this again does seem to be a complete waste of our time so I’ll leave it with you Oz and Boris to continue your mission of death, doom and destruction to the network marketing industry and it seems all things Polaris!
Being on the wrong side of the globe and all that, I can’t help but wonder what’s TP so worked up about. Or as we Yanks used to say… Who put salt in his tail this morning?
The entire thrust of Scientology, from what I can gather, is a bunch of Dianetics followers who turned self-improvement into a cult.
The problem of a religious cult in control of what is supposed to be a business venture is disturbing in itself (on the other hand, one can say that the Catholic church itself is a huge business, and even has its own state and its own military… sort of)
Furthermore, it appears that Polaris itself is also on a self-improvement path, so the two meshes… quite well.
Why is that disturbing? MLM, with its “network” heavily dependent on person-to-person relationships, and reliance on the upline being a “leader”, is VERY susceptible to cult tactics such as alienation, brainwashing, and so on. An unscrupulous “leader” can subvert the group of downlines into followers of a personality cult.
NOT saying that’s what’s happening here, just saying that any sign of a link to a KNOWN CULT would indicate closer scrutiny than usual.
As for ACCC and all that, they are to protect consumers from being befrauded monetarily, like by TVI Express (which ACCC did slap a restraining order on). They would have nothing to say about cults any way. Their “can neither confirm nor deny” is standard answer. It really does not indicate one way or another.
And TP here is very good at generalizing. From a few links of Polaris to a known cult, he somehow expanded that into “mission of death, doom, and destruction to the network marketing industry”.
Isn’t just that a very polite way of saying “you don’t understand us”?
That’s one of the 13 ways I’ve identified that scammers use to recruit people into pyramid/Ponzi schemes. (Esp. TVI Express scammers, but tactics are universally applicable)
http://hubpages.com/hub/TVI-Express-Scam-Tactic-Analysis-How-and-Why-Do-People-Fall-for-a-Scam
@truth prevails
I’m not an expert on any of these companies, nor the network industry. I’m not an expert in any of the fields I write about either.
I offered information. She must decide if she’ll read it or what she wants to read, and also how she will use the information. I try not to influence on her final choice – if she should participate or not.
Description or opinion?
I consider this to be an opinion:
This is a personal opinion. It is not alleged to be some kind of “expert advice”, either.
I consider the rest to be descriptions.
I would not recommend a GUMP to participate. There are those who lose most of the money. You must make such recommendations yourself if you mean that this is suitable for a GUMP.
So Mr. Krider only does some of the things his $cientology bosses tell him. This means he is bound for failure in their eyes, just as Polaris distributors “fail” because they are unable to fully commit or go “full boat”.
All cults demand total obedience to the “system”. With the threat of failure over their heads, the victims continue to pour often scarce resources into the cult/scam, until they are finally drained, emotionally or financially.
As for the other 2 company owners. Mr Strom has previously been shown to have the ethics of a snake and in my humble opinion to be a complete idiot for his possible blackmail attempt (using his own name for God’s sake) on Oz. And last but not least it’s hard to find anyone as loathed by former associates as Rachel Oliver.
@truth prevails
I wasn’t aware there was Scientology lite. I was under the impression that, like Polaris, you were either full boat or you went home.
I hope you’re not implying that anyone who hasn’t joined Polaris isn’t in a position to publish an opinion or their thoughts on them.
If I did that neither of my two blogs would even exist. Since when do we as people not comment and develop opinions or thoughts we don’t neccesarily have first hand knowledge of.
(Isn’t that one of the Scientology ‘rules’, ‘What’s true for any of us is what we’ve been able to personally observe because we applied a principle and found it true.‘?)
I published a letter I personally received from them, there is no discussion. Regardless of what the OFT have told people I have it in writing that they found Liberty League to be a pyramid scheme.
Whether this letter was sent out by accident or what I don’t know but it was sent out and published. You can’t argue with it or dispute it, it’s there in plain writing.
No doubt the avalanche of calls from Polaris distributors and the company itself prompted some internal policy reviews or some such about what information the OFT release to the public, but regardless the letter is authentic and clearly states they found Liberty League to be a pyramid scheme.
@K Chang…the death, doom and destruction refers to the trail of 49 or so posts since 2009, there’s history there you may not be aware of
@M_Norway…I have no idea what a GUMP is???
@Boris…you really don’t like them do you?!? And that’s your choice. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Australia
@Oz…It’s really all quite good fun isn’t it! The to and fro banter of people expressing their opinions and occasionally rubbing each other up the wrong way!
That’s the purpose of a blog like this I’m sure and you do it well. Point being it’s not a reliable site for anyone looking at this industry to gain a great deal of factual information.
Whilst it may seem like a lot of fun to some it seems to be very damaging to many people who have invested in their various businesses, who put their blood, sweat, tears and $$$ into it only to have the opinions of people with no real experience undermine all that they’ve worked for.
M_Norway is a classic example of the people who often post on here, in his/her own words “I’m not an expert on any of these companies, nor the network industry” Well, guess what? Many people reading this blog think they are reading expert opinions!
In regard to the letter you claim to have I will have to take your word for it but please excuse me if I choose to believe it to be something you or someone else manufactured for the purpose that appears so evident when it comes to LLI/Polaris bashing.
How wonderful that some people have enjoyed great success with LLI/Polaris, past and present, through their own supreme effort!!! I applaud them all and wish them continued success despite what you might have to say.
I’m sure it is wonderful for the 3% of LLI/Polaris investors who have actually managed to make some money from the scam. Not so wonderful for the other poor souls who it seems continue to be suckered by the hype.
Dead right there TP. I have seen the trail of destruction left by $cientology and it’s ilk, so it gives me great pleasure to warn other potential victims about the conmen and scam artists out there.
I am sorry, but the success this group of people is entirely based on the disaster of a group of people which is at least 100 times bigger. If they are going to continue their success, they definately have to bring in more gullible people (GUMPs) that easily can be lured to believe they can make a fortune with Polaris. This is not wonderful, it is really disgusting.
And no, I have no MLM education, never partipated in any MLM or pyramid scheme, and I don’t have any title as an expert in the area. However, you will not find another person on this planet knowing more about WMI without being personally involved with WMI. And WMI is a blueprint of LLI.
@truth prevails
As someone who goes out of their way to thoroughly research (sometimes over a period of weeks) the MLM opportunities I write about, I can’t help but disagree.
You seem to think the only people able to comment on MLM’s are the self proclaimed experts. Most of which have no education or experience in the niche’s they operate beyond joining a company and being in it for a period of time.
Infact this often used as a selling point; ‘I was just a forklift driver, factory worker, something something in the corporate world and if I can do it anyone can!’
If we solely relied on information ‘the experts’ gave us, we’d be doing nothing but reading paper thin press releases and marketing spiel.
That’s where I try to make BehindMLM different, it’s to cater to those who don’t want to be neccesarily sold something or mislead into looking at other opportunities.
You want information on company X? BehindMLM will give you information on company X. There’s absolutely no misdirection or company x is crap, take a look at company Y nonsense on here – something which most of ‘the experts’ heavily rely on to promote their respective MLM opportunities.
I believe anyone is entitled to have a say and the commentary of those not in the industry is just as important as those outside it.
I myself don’t belong to any MLM opportunity and often I find myself going over compensation plans over a period of weeks due to the sheer complexity involved. In turn I try to simplify the convoluted expalantions and business presentations down to what I hope is a level anyone can understand.
Whilst doing this I also try to translate the theory and practices of the business into the real world. Highlighting any deficiencies I see along the way (there’s already a billion marketing websites highlighting the positives for every opportunity out there).
In doing so the reader obtains an objective, non-biased critical analysis of whatever opportunity they’re researching.
You show me an ‘expert’ who’s out there doing that.
To date, the OFT have not denied sending out the letter. A fact I’m sure you’ll note in your own communications with them.
If I just made it up don’t you think they would have outright denied ever sending the letter? It might be unusual or a once off that they did so, but it should be undisputed they did until the OFT state otherwise.
People wanted proof and I delivered.
@truth prevails
You write here too, without regard to those who expect comments from experts?
Most people who write in forums or blogs are not experts. I’m definitely not alone in not being an expert.
To become an “ex-pert” one must first have been a “pert” or something?
@truth prevails
I am not an expert but I have very close friends who have been involved with many MLMs and making a lot of money, guess what they dont care who they hurt, they just want the money the fame and of course the world travel to 5 star resorts.
I have had many a debate with them about the wreckage that they leave behind but they are so totally and utterly brainwashed that it does not and never will sink in.
The reason I still see them is because I can see that they are addicted these scams as a druggie is to his next fix.
The sooner we are rid of this nonsense MLM industry the better.
The above quote is from the Polaris Global facebook page. The technique can also be described a “lie to your prospects about how much you are earning”. —And they talk about integrity!!!
I’ve read just about every single line in this ‘argument’ and I find that a lot of it comes from personal opinion which is fine. However, the negative comments based on and around scientology and Shane Krider have failed to impress me.
If anything, they have done exactly the opposite. When negativity like this is fed through channels of the like above, then it is little wonder one would want to prove the entire argument null and void and absolutely incorrect.
One would, given the determination to succeed, do just that, succeed, And as they follow their own roads to their success, they might just turn and give the argumentor the ‘finger’!
A footnote; negativity makes this planet orbit. Without it, not a soul would be spurred to go forward and live his dream would he?
Interesting piece of philosophy there, Tis Me. After a couple of years, where this blog has documented the failings of the Polaris business model, not a single person has felt able to proclaim themselves to be the fantastic success story which would contradict the opinions expressed here. Rather the opposite in fact.
We have heard stories of loss, desperation and frustration. Those who joined Polaris have felt betrayed and exposed as naive and gullible. But nonetheless they have been brave enough to express their feelings in the hope that others won’t fall into the same trap.
Come on. Join Polaris. Give them your $30,000 for their “products”. And then come back here and tell us all how happy you are to be making the “multiple six figure” income.
Making that “six figure” income should be a cinch for someone like you. So come on, I look forward to getting the finger.
Positivity is also known as foolhardiness, or just plain idiocy.
Let’s give an extremely stupid example: let’s say you’re the first homo sapien on the the plains of Africa. You hear this hiss in the grass. What do you do?
Positivity: it’s just the wind
Negativity: it’s a monster… run!
So assuming you get either a real monster, or nothing, you get four outcomes:
Positivity / real monster -> you get eaten
Positivity / nothing -> you learn hiss = nothing
Negativity / real monster -> you ran and survive, learned hiss = danger
Negativity / nothing -> false alarm, you still live
So what has positivity earned you? You either get eaten, or you learned something that gets you eaten later.
What has negativity earned you? Survival.
Negativity is there for a purpose. It’s called “prudence”. No amount of positivity will making a leaking boat NOT SINK, but negativity will stop you from getting into a leaking boat in the first place.
@Tis Me
Nobody is trying to impress you. If you wish to believe Scientology is full of flowers and rainbows then by all means go ahead.
If you also wish to believe that anything Polaris teaches in personal development can go against Scientology (or is not at some level) Scientology inspired, then also by all means go ahead.
Funny then how you failed to do so. Stating something fails to impress you doesn’t make it ‘absolutely incorrect’.
Yes, because it’s perfectly normal to listen to a well argued position and merely reply with the finger. That’s what all sane rational people do. This sounds suspiciously like the kind of garbage you’d get at some sort of ‘pick me up seminar’ or motivational speaker event.
And I think we can all agree that following the Polaris business model and being
a programmable sheepcoachable and trainable and simply duplicating your uplines marketing tactics (which they in turn copied from their upline) is hardly following your own road to success.Quote from the Facebook page
Sounds like it comes straight from the L Ron Hubbard school of religious money making.
Were you ‘burned’ financially in some way Boris? Is that why you’re so negative? Or is it that you simply cannot focus on the successes of other people regardless of how they found that success?
You strike me as an intelligent individual, however your repetitive comments still do little to impress. I have found by reading your comments that there is something deep seated inside you that needs airing. You’re appearing bitter and rueful.
I sincerely hope I am wrong but I cannot help but wonder.
Ladies and gentlemen, if there was any remaining doubt as to the link between Scientology and Polaris Global, I present to you exhibit A;
For those scratching their heads I suggest they do some reading on Scientology’s auditing process.
Not withstanding the additional Scientology technique employed by Tis Me to suggest that your critics have something to hide.
Who says Polaris Global members don’t slowly turn into well behaved Scientologist drones?
Not at all, Tis Me. I actually own an extremely successful business, which is one of the reasons I am confident in deriding the Polaris “business opportunity”.
Wrong again Tis Me. Every single day, I interact and deal with very well known and extremely successful people. I don’t feel the need to blow my own trumpet, but the multiple “six figure income”, much emphasised by the Polaris scam is reality for me.
Just like Oz, I recognise the hubbard speak beloved of $cientologists. As regular readers will know,it was the similarity between Liberty League/Polaris and $cientology which first stirred my interest in the scam. As time goes by, my original suspicions have been entirely justified, not least by Tis Me’s above comment.
Completely irrelevant to the discussion, standard unethical debate tactic: imply your opponent have personal stakes in the topic with absolutely ZERO corroborating evidence. It’s knwon as “attack the messenger”
This is a standard tactic employed by scams to discredit critics. Here is a full list of “bad debate tactics”:
http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=324134
Polaris is not alone with these insults. TVI Express fans have posted following on my various web pages
So, Tis Me, you just lost ANY credibility you had around here.
Success Is Easy, But So Is Neglect – Jim Rohn
People often ask me how I became successful in that six-year period of time while many of the people I knew did not. The answer is simple: The things I found to be easy to do, they found to be easy not to do. I found it easy to set the goals that could change my life. They found it easy not to do. I found it easy to read the books that could affect my thinking and my ideas. They found that easy not to do. I found it easy to attend the classes and the seminars, and to get around other successful people. They said it probably really wouldn’t matter. If I had to sum it up, I would say what I found to be easy to do, they found to be easy not to do. Six years later, I’m a millionaire and they are all still blaming the economy, the government, and company policies, yet they neglected to do the basic, easy things.
I made an initial comment, not an initial argument. I find the repetition of the comments thereafter, rather tired, tedious and exhausting. Anyone who has as much amunition to continue to condemn while claiming to be very successful, is someone who has a deplorable desire to knock someone else off the rung on the ladder who is climbing to their own position in life. Live and let live. It’s that easy.
That’s a lot of text to say basically nothing.
As for irony…
Scientology remarks, check.
Attacking the attacker, check.
Quote from some random, check.
Completely avoiding anything directed at you, check.
Repetition? If only you knew the half of it everytime a Polaris member joins the discussion…
Jim “Who”?? Tis Me needs to read the “bad debate tactics” mentioned above.This page is about the connection between Polaris Global and $cientology, something which s/he has singularly failed to address in any post. All the ad hominem attacks and special pleading will do nothing to counteract the obvious $cientology influence in the Polaris scam.
@Tis Me, I’m appreciating and applauding all your comments but don’t you see….this site is not here to look at any MLM or network marketing opportunities in an unbiased manner. It’s not here to be subjective and it’s not here to agree with any positive comments particularly when it comes to Polaris.
When the conversation dies away the reader can always rely on Oz or Boris to dredge up something from the past like a 2009 post on a Facebook page (come on Boris you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel now!) Let’s see who “attacks the messenger” hmmmmmm??? Isn’t that what Oz, Boris and K Chang all do?
Expressing their opinions and appearing to be experts when they get the facts wrong time and time again, but they’ll argue that till they’re blue in the face, and as for Scientology, the strongest link to Polaris and Scientology is here on this website!!!
Guys you really do deserve to get a life. It’s getting very tedious but you have brought some new energy to an old and boring topic Tis Me! Now let’s see if we are permitted to bring some balance to this discussion?!?
I’d love to see your “balance”. This website has shown that Shane Krider is a member of the Church of $cientology. Krider is one of the founders of Polaris.
$cientology is an evil cult which demands total obedience from it’s members, so it’s obvious that the principles of Polaris must not run counter to those of the cult.
Polaris stresses the use of social media, so when we see repeated references and allusions to $cientology on their various Facebook pages we can easily see the links between the cult and the scam.
@truth prevails
We point out misrepresentations, obfuscations, and outright falsehoods spread by alleged MLMs and its members.
If you think we made a mistake, point them out.
If you don’t agree with our conclusions, present your side of the story and we’ll analyze/critique your reasoning(s) based on evidence you presented.
But just flatly paint us as “negativity”? You sound like a cult member defending a cult.
OFFTOPIC: Jim Rohn is apparently a MLM pioneer in “AbundaVita”, and taught Tony Robbins all he knew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Rohn
Unfortunately, when you search for AbundaVita, you find either the very scantily dressed European actress, or the Federal investigation in 1953 whether AbundaVita supplements are medicine or not (found in NIH archives). Almost nothing about the company itself, other than how most of the leaders left to a competitor called Nutri-Bio.
And this is way before Amway, before MLM laws have been codified. Thus, while Jim Rohn may serve as inspiration, his knowledge for today’s world is about as practical as Napoleon Hill’s books.
@truth prevails
Applauding what exactly? Criticising Boris for criticising Scientology and Polaris instead of addressing said criticism… in all the years I’ve been writing about Polaris I’ve never seen anyone attempt to balance the discussion with anything more than ‘so which rival company do you work for?!’, ‘you all suck, I’m gunna make MILLIONS! (only to never be heard from again)’, or ‘what’s wrong with you, what are you hiding’ type comments.
I think the best we’ve seen are people who say they’ve gotten something positive out of Beyond Freedom, but then left the company because Polaris business opportunity itself sunk them.
There’s a succinct difference in attacking the message and holding it up to analysis (what usually happens on here after someone new joins Polaris and publishes how great it is and how they’re ‘on track’ to make billions), then there is attacking the actual messenger – which in this instance is what ’tis me has done.
No. That’d be the fact that Shane Krider, CEO of Polaris Global is a Scientologist. Polaris being a personal development company, naturally it follows that all personal development theory taught by them must be in line with Scientology.
That is the strongest link to Polaris and Scientology. Period.
As always, I don’t remove commentary merely because it goes against my views or anyone elses. You’re always free to participate on that level.
As for balance though, publishing random inspirational quotes you found in Beyond Freedom and claiming everyone just has something to hide… yeah, you’re going to have to do a lot better than that.
@Boris – you’re obsessed and possessed and clearly screwed up by your experience with Scientology! So much so that you can’t see that it’s possible for a business community which consists predominantly of Christians, but open to all beliefs, can not be a front for Scientology when the ONLY follower of such is one of the founders.
As I’ve stated from first hand knowledge previously, as a student of the Beyond Freedom Evolution program (utilize it daily in my life) as far as I can tell there is nothing contained in that program that has anything to do with Scientology, there is nothing in the training or events aligned with that and no-one (at least in Australia) has been approached to join.
There’s some info from someone who’s been very closely involved not just with the business but with the people. Go ahead and shoot as many holes in that as you like but that’s how it is. Sorry if it doesn’t fit your agenda.
@K Chang – both Jim Rohn and Napoleon Hill are as relevant today as they have ever been for those who embrace and value personal development. I know that’s not an area of expertise or interest for yourself, Oz or Boris.
@truth prevails — clearly you have reading comprehension problems. I pointed at them both and said they are INSPIRATION, but their PRACTICAL knowledge is not quite applicable today.
Furthermore, I don’t doubt Mr. Rohn’s credentials. I simply doubt his RELEVANCE to Polaris. It’d be like we’re discussing Ford and you brought up Jim Hall (of Chapparal Cars). Was Mr. Rohn involved in Polaris in any way?
So your evidence to support “Polaris is not Scientology” is merely your personal observation, that you observed mainly Christians joining Polaris? Pray tell, how many people have you observed, so we can determine if it’s a viable sample size.
And you based this observation “have nothing to do with Scientology” based on what exactly? What do you know of Scientology? (I please ignorance on this subject, I simply question your… knowledge level in determining what is Scientology and what is not)
Just because the group YOU are involved in are nice people does NOT mean everybody else in Polaris are nice people. That’s a logical fallacy.
What is quintessential here is the realisation for EVERYONE that EVERYONE has a right to believe and to follow the own opinions or Polaris or Scientology. God forbid if that right were stripped away from us.
I’ll just add this, for what it’s worth.
My references to Jim Rohn and Napoleon Hill were simply thus. I appreciate that some feel (contrary to many) these men were not in touch with our future as it evolves. Be that as it may. They certainly had the power to influence and to teach and to bequeath to many, a New World.
If indeed others are adopting such a beautiful approach to life and succeeding in reaping the growth from those seeds they’ve sown, then why would anyone want to deny them? Is it because they feel it maybe too late do something so that they too could reap the successes in life themselves? Or is it they have an attitude that has already damned them?
I have not met anyone who is opposed to wealth and never have I come across anyone who has a deplorable need to rip that success out from under he who has won. I don’t think I ever will.
When someone has found financial independence, happiness and fulfillment then they are to be applauded not torn apart by one who cannot find his direction to that same road.
Mr. Krider is a successful man who took a personal belief and made it real, just like Jim Rohn and Napoleon Hill for that matter. We, each and every one of us possess that same power to succeed and to fulfill and enrich our lives. So what are you doing to enrich yours?
Tis Me..”We, each and every one of us possess that same power to succeed and to fulfill and enrich our lives. So what are you doing to enrich yours?”
Living life honestly suits me, and leaving no wreckage of ruined lives that get caught up in the Pyramid scams of Polaris etc
He may indeed be successful, but his success has come at the expense of so many others who have invested their time and money in his scam, only to realise too late, that have been conned. I’m sure Al Capone was considered a success by some, but look where it got him.
To each his own I guess. You’ve heard of Karma? If what you say is the case, then Karma kicks one in the butt ten fold.
What you believe is your own business. it is when you are trying to convert… I mean RECRUIT people is when it becomes a BIG PROBLEM.
I believe that’s call faith, and we may not see the results in this life (or the next). So, again, some of us prefers to take a more… proactive approach.
By your logic, Hitler should be admired because he has an attitude that had reunited the German people and brought a defeated nation out of the shadow of Allies after World War I, and for that he was tremendously successful.
Yes, that was a nasty shot, but I was trying to make a point: we have no problem against success. It is how that success was ACHIEVED that we have problems with.
This is my opinion based on personal experience –
* Polaris is not a scam but a completely legitimate network marketing opportunity where the company has worked closely with the ACCC here in Australia to comply with all the government rules and regulations at a Federal level.
* The product line is exceptional and of great value (stands alone in the market place where BFE and documentaries are concerned) providing it is utilized fully as with any form of education.
* For those who choose to join and pay their money (purchasing products, paying for subscriptions, advertising costs, travel to events etc – all tax deductable business expenses)they have the same chance of success or failure as anyone else just as they do in any business, course or investment an individual chooses to make.
* There is an opportunity for anyone to make substantial income providing they treat the business in a business like manner and with the level of seriousness and dedication required for long term success.
* The Polaris business model, leadership, products and services do not promote any particular religious beliefs. PERIOD.
As a side note there seems to be great confusion on this page as to what might be perceived to be Scientology VS personal development, something I recall discussing many, many months ago and I’ll remind everyone reading to consider that Scientology is strongly influenced by personal development as far as I’ve been able to discern.
In my years of association with first LLI and then Polaris the only person who claimed to be “introduced” to Scientology was Elena Fraga who as an EMC member at the time (I recall reading this here over 18 months ago?) and she was apparently encouraged to undertake a leadership course at the Scientology school.
This encouragement came from John and Shannon Lavenia who are no longer associated in any way with Polaris but have moved I believe to Wealth Masters along with several other known followers of Scientology so it is with interest that Boris keeps his Scientology hate campaign uniquely to Polaris. It was because of Shannon Lavenia putting out a general invitation on Facebook for people to attend a Scientology run leadership course that Shane Krider eventually felt it necessary to announce his affiliation.
That being said it seems that Boris cannot appreciate that Shane could have certain personal beliefs that do not cross over into his business life and herein lies the whole debate I think.
I believe that if Scientology was being promoted within Polaris in any shape or form then there would literally be hundreds of unhappy ex distributors making such claims here. So far we are yet to hear of anyone other than Fraga so unless we find a few wise guys creating additional profiles to do so I doubt we ever will.
Come to think of it… for all the 1000’s of former distributors out there we have seen a very small number of individual complaints so I encourage all those looking at this for the first time to consider that very fact!?!
FACT as far as we know it, as of now.
OPINION, and that caveat is a huge one.
Good! At least you didn’t make blanket statement like some other idiot leaders (not Polaris) who claim that hard work is all that is required.
I think you just repeated yourself, and slightly contradicted.
AFAYK, that is. 🙂
So here is the big question:
What sort of lessons does BFE teach, and do they resemble Scientology / Dianetics in any form?
As you are obviously a BFE owner/user, I’ll just point to Wikipedia’s entry on Dianetics / Scientology Audit, and you can tell us if there are any resemblances:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics
Be honest, now. 😀
Truth Prevails, thank you.
You have done an exceptional job of eliminating doubt that has plagued me since I began reading the comments, particularly those damaging to Polaris and to Shane Krider.
I want to personally thank you also for putting my mind to rest. It certainly has been a very constructive debate, however, I feel compelled now to go back to the business of living and succeeding in my chosen field as I am now convinced I would be wasting precious time remaining here any further.
For those who have embraced the Power of Positive Thinking, who have chosen to embark on their own Personal Growth and Development, to those who have the unquestionable belief that you can have all that you need even before you ask for it, I’ll leave you with this as I wave goodbye to you all with a very happy heart.
Some people are always grumbling because roses have thorns; I am thankful that thorns have roses.
@Tis Me – I appreciate that wonderfully positive perspective.
Thank you K Chang for the link re Dianetics. I’ll do some research there and get back to you with my observations.
Nearly every Polaris clone website I can find says “Is this MLM? No it is not” So either Truth Prevails is correct and all the Polaris sites are incorrect or vise versa.
I strongly question the value of paying multiple thousands of dollars to listen to what are generally second rate speakers for a few hours, no matter what the location.
This is a downright lie. The early entrants to the scam will always have the advantage because they get to spend the money put into it by the latecomers.
Again, the Polaris clone sites promote the minimal effort required to make big money in the scam. You just have to look at what the clones call themselves. timefreebusiness.com the20hourworkweek.com itsjustthateasy.com befreefromwork.com massivefortunehomebiz.com and there’s many more.
A quote from these sites says, “On a scale of 1 to 10, what is the difficulty level of running this business? With 10 being the most difficult and 1 being the simplest, out of all the businesses we have ever run or owned, we would say for most everyone, it will be a 1.” So again Truth Prevails, either you are completely wrong or the Polaris sites contain a pack of lies.
From many years of experience, I can tell you that $cientology is possibly the most insidious organisation on the planet. They hide their intentions behind many facades, whether it be education, health or personal development. The CEO of Polaris happens to be a $cientologist so his products must reflect the ethos of the cult.
Far from it TP. I attack the cult in many fora and on every occasion I can. As I explained previously, Polaris targets the city and country I live in so they in turn are targeted by me.
So do I. And then they should hide their wallets and start running.
I think one key factor being overlooked here is not the fact that Shane Krider is a Scientologist or religious freedom etc.
It’s the fact that, unlike a lot of other religions you can’t do Scientology half arsed. It’s not like you can disagree with something and just pick and choose what parts of Scientology you wish to follow. They will hunt you down and what’s worse, they know all you’re dirty little secrets to hold against you as leverage.
It’s not a question of whether or not Scientologist beliefs are aligned with Polaris Global’s internal structure, product line or members… it’s the fact that what Polaris teaches you cannot go against Scientology principles.
That in itself isn’t such a bad thing, but have you seriously looked at Scientology and the nonsense they get up to? I mean really looked? Dianetics, Auditing, Fair Game and Disconnect are just just the tip of the iceberg.
And it’s with this knowledge that I’m supposed to trust my personal development with Krider and his company?
If you’re comfortable with that then by all means, go ‘full boat’ and best of luck to you. Just know that nothing they teach you can go against Scientology by merit of the fact that the CEO of Polaris is a Scientologist. If it came down to truly helping you and going against Scientology or just sweeping you under the carpet with Scientology approved methodology, which do you think Krider and co. are going to pick?
At best Polaris Global offer limited personal development and growth bound within the constraints of Scientology principles and beliefs. At worst it’s a feeder program designed to introduce only those who truly make it in the business into the religion themselves.
I imagine it’d be hard to argue that Scientology isn’t for you after you’ve made a considerable amount of money following it’s princples (even if you had no idea you were being targeted).
There’s a reason EMC members are made to sign non disclosure agreements forbidding them to talk about any aspect of the company upon departure. Why have NDAs at all? By the very nature of MLMs members have to know how the business works in order to participate. They need to know exactly where the money is going and how it operates. Hell, this information is provided to the general public as part of a compensation plan – so what exactly was worth hiding and covering up with company wide executive NDAs in the first place?
Due to the NDAs all we’ve heard is a general consensus that people didn’t agree with the direction Krider was taking Polaris Global when most of the EMC quit back in 2009.
What direction do you think that was?
@K Chang – thank you for pointing me to Wikipedia’s entry on Dianetics / Scientology Audit. This is the first time I have read anything of the teachings of Hubbard and although interesting I must say I was overwhelmed with language that left me both confused and bemused and I can honestly and gladly say there is certainly no resemblance between Dianetics and the Beyond Freedom Evolution program.
In my experience of working with the Beyond Freedom program it has been a journey of identifying and exploring limiting beliefs and changing those beliefs to serve me more effectively in reaching my goals. The program has empowered me to take responsibility for my thinking, my choices, my actions and reactions and this has impacted very positively in areas of my personal and business life.
I’m a very satisfied Polaris customer and grateful to have been introduced to the products and many of the people involved, including the company founders.
@Truth Prevails — as I have no desire to spend 2000+ on BFE, I’ll take your word for it that it has helped you as a self-help tool, and at short glance, does not appear to be related to Scientology / Dianetics / Hubbard-speak.
But are they… compatible? Does BFE contradict Scientology or is completely congruent to it? The allegation above, about Krieder, is that if BFE can be pushed by Scientology members, being congruent to it, then the question becomes, just how different is BFE from Scientology?
Please note this is not a condemnation of BFE, I’m more amused at the critics of scientology, as I live about 4 blocks from their local office and there are often protesters there. It’s just that Scientology is such a cult that anything LINKED to it, however peripherally, deserves serious examination, and thus far, there is no serious analysis between BFE and Scientology by third-party to disprove of any resemblance / links. (Yes, I said THIRD-PARTY)
The one from Polaris who ripped me off called herself a life-trainer. I was in a very vulnerable place at the time and she knew it. As soon as I parted with my hard-earned, there was no life training – just her looking for the next sucker.
Of course, if you don’t succeed you “didn’t follow the program”, which consisted basically of ringing in to some teleconference where a bunch of hyped up “entreprenuers” lie about how great everything is and then try to get new recruits sucked in so that they can line their pockets.
You are meant to invite people to these ridiculous sessions) and when I asked how you find these people I was told to contact freinds, relatives and old workmates(which I refused to do any of), maybe place an ad in the paper, leave brochures around, letterbox drops – all at my own expense!
I got sucked in when I asked someone I knew how they were going. She said, “you know, things just couldn’t be better”. In hindsight, I realised that it was a well thought-out lie that leads you down the path to their ultimate objective: PAYING THEM YOUR MONEY.
People, this is not about selling products, it’s about earning a commission from other people joining. The loophole is that every newby needs to buy product – but it’s only for their own use! and it’s crap! Nothing gets bought and sold with margin as in the traditional ways of business, just people making money out of “bringing on” other people who pay to join. The glossy front of the company when contrasted to the truth makes me sick and feel so stupid for being so gullible.
I won’t accept anyone objecting to my comments, as you would be doing so just to protect your own interests. I know how you work and you are all scavengers!
Thank God I ran into this website, had a chance to read through your coments and didn’t get into this shi*.. Thanks guys! 🙂
My friend is sucked in to this brainwashing Polaris global “multi million dollar” industry a year ago.She was going through a rough way in her life that time and to be honest she always was the one who hated the idea of a real job! (no I am not saying she was lazy, she just didn’t want to work:))) )
After a year she is still thinking that this business is the heaven saying to everyone even in her website that she became a multi millionaire.(they doing this to get more and more people in) However for real she has nothing!!!!!
Her family life is broken, divorced and if she wouldnt have a great ex husband with a good job and an even better child support and centrelink money, she would have become homeless. She is not able to afford the rent without the money from her ex-partner. Living in a 2 bedroom (rental)flat with her parents and children and has a car that is around 15 years old.
I am just writing this because this so called “business” is making people loose everything!!!! Please stay away everyone and live a normal life without the instant millionare oppurtunity!!!!
Sorry to hear about your friend zorro.
Sounds like Polaris definitely delivered on their promise of ‘personal development’, just that your friend didn’t read the fine print and see the term ‘negative’ written before it.
This is an eye opener.
Went through BFE web training on their website, still don’t know the ‘products.’
Thanks for the info and a heads up! i was contacted by someone from PMG or ‘Polaris Global’ today. The minute i saw the Video, and realised they wanted just under $2,500 it took all my will power not to crack up laughing at how gullible some people can be.
Not me. My hard earned cash is staying in my pocket, not in someone else’s.
This ‘work from home’ business opportunity is being advertised in the North of the UK.
I was waiting for a ‘call’ today having requested further details. Despite this request, I have been digging around for a few days looking for signs of a ‘scam’ and today, just before the call came, I found this page and believe that my gut instinct was correct.
It’s been a very interesting debate to read through, but for me, those people who have either been involved or know of people who have got sucked into this ‘business opportunity’ have grabbed my full attention!
Needless to say, I will not be joining the toogoodtobetrue brigade and am SO glad that I happened upon this page when I did!
Clearly, The Secret (The Law of Attraction) was working in my favour today today! Thanks to those who posted prior to me. I wish those who have been sucked in well!
I have to say I came across this site and had to read the posts. I cannot believe the rubbish people put on here, knowing nothing about the company. The products are fabulous and as someone stated, when used properly they most definitely work!!!
Google MLM and pyramid and you will realize this is not such a thing. I have no interest in Scientology and I have never been approached or found to be influenced into such a religion- or it even mentioned.
I’m not here to go on and on and I won’t as I have better things to do, but as a part of this company, having met the main leaders, CEOs etc this is a fabulous opportunity both financially and personally, helping relationships, health, and personal self worth.
You say that the products are not worth it, how do you know? It teaches you how to think like a successful person, and can create wealth not even in the business but in a job too. It allows us to make our own calculated decisions, not listen to others and let them influence our decisions.
I have to be honest I saw potential in this business so I signed up and was worried as we all naturally would be. Once I got into the company and started finding out more and the level of support we receive I couldn’t believe my luck. well it wasn’t luck was it? I made a calculated decision based on what I could see and knew I could do this and had vision.
You do not get asked to pounce on family and friends in fact they ask you to not do it. You can sign up at $49 and still run the side of the business and get the same profits, but obviously it is harder to be able to sell the products when you cannot see the value in them yourself.
To be honest, we are serious business owners and do not really want to waste our time mentoring people who are not serious about the business. I mean we have no overheads like a shop and pretty much profits as quickly as you want to get going seriously.. having to buil momentum and having new learning curves on the way takes others longer than others, but what business is profitable that soon anyway.
Isn’t it two years running costs you need to have to start a business as it may take a while to get profits. And how much does that cost?… a hell of a lot more !!
Markie Mark you are talking complete rubbish. And no wonder you never did very well with that attitude. Heard of law of Attraction??? Try reading the secret, or is that rubbish too like Beyond Freedom?
This was your business, they simply gave you the successful tools on how to become a successful Entrepreneur and professional sales and Marketing skills and you simply did not use them.
And you said you had to leave broaches around etc, at your own cost? They are not a charity. If you had a real estate business and needed to advertise your houses, you would have to pay for your own advertising… no???? And leaflet drop???
And with the conferences. If you were a hair dresser, a good one anyway, you go on refreshing courses/ color courses etc which would be a couple of grand in London as my friend does them. This is for your business this is why people invest in their business, to progress- ours are the live events.
We really couldn’t care what you all want to believe. I belong to this successful company and are proud. My family and friends weren’t sure at the beginning either but have now come around once explained properly by myself and have a full insight first hand on what is the potential.
I for one am a good honest person and would not be involved in a doggy scam, etc.
I wont be coming back on here to get caught up in another debate but remember, you all think your doing good by slating an opportunity that certain people would do really well at and don’t go ahead with because of your lies/ misunderstandings. These people are actually in need of personal development to help them think for themselves so It’s a shame you could potentially be ruining their dreams/ reality.
And not once does the mentors/ leaders in the company say lie. In fact they ask you to be completely honest about what you’ve made $$$$ as that person will be joining your team or if your not the leader then your mentors team.
I haven’t found any company that you get paid up front, very large commissions, whilst studying a brilliant personal development course to make your whole life happy. This is our dream business..
HAVE A GOOD DAY.
I think you got some facts mixed up. You don’t get paid unless you sell some lessons to some poor sod just like you were sold the same lessons by your upline. Nobody gets paid “upfront” before a “sale” was made.
As for “brilliant personal development course to make your whole life happy”… If you really believe a mass-market product can help everybody be happy, you need professional psychological help.
Oh no!!! Someone else who has recently joined Polaris and still has the funny glasses on. The Kriders and Strom must laugh loudly when they see stuff like this.
AMP: This “Law of Attraction” is exactly what I’m talking about. Every Polaris “entrepreneur” going around saying “things just couldn’t be better” as if to say; “don’t you want what I’ve got? This is what I was told was one of the methods of “attracting” new suckers.
I guess the saying is true: “If we all believe it then it no longer is a lie”.