Polaris Media Group publicly linked to Scientology
Since I started blogging about Polaris Media Group, one of the more unbelievable claims I’ve heard has been that Polaris is simply a front for Scientology.
Some of my readers have claimed the allegations have been flatly denied by Polaris executives and others claim that Krider and co. don’t attempt to hide their Scientology links when asked.
A thread over at scam.com is a further example of some of the claims that have been made:
The Liberty League “Inner Circle” (most EMC members) and the new owner Shane Krider are Scientologists seeking to climb “thetan” OT levels and obtain OT VIII: Truth Revealed.
Brent Payne and wife (Julia Payne) sold their share to Shane Krider for various reasons, but one main speculation is due to the fact that Shane Krider is only allowing the top trainers of Liberty League International to be trainers if they are trained, pay money, & practice Scientology communication teachings at the L Ron Hubbard Institute.
Personally I’ve refrained from writing about any possible Scientology links as, despite my criticisms of the Polaris business model, the link just seemed too far fetched.
I mean seriously, it’s Scientology we’re talking about here. Sure half the population might not know the ins and outs of the religion, but thanks to several high profile members and a continuous stream of bizarre news stories, most people know to turn around and run screaming when they see anything associated with them.
If you fall in the other half of the population you might want to read this indepth analysis of Scientology that made Time Magazine’s 1991 May front cover.
Although hugely skeptical, I never ruled out the Scientology link to Polaris but instead waited until I came across something concrete.
Today, that something came along.
Tipped off by reader iwonder it wasn’t long before I had the following screenshot in my hands. What you are seeing here is Polaris Media Group EMC member Shannon Lavenia actively promoting a ‘Productivity Workshop’ at the Hubbard College of Administration.
The Hubbard College of Administration is an unaccredited ‘education’ institute that “teaches administration using methods developed by Church of Scientology founder, L. Ron Hubbard.” It is run by the World Institute of Scientology Enterprises (WISE) who’s affiliates have been “urged to recruit for Scientology in exchange for money”.
Not being accredited also means that an external independent regulatory body has ever certified the Hubbard College of Administration’s courses or degrees. In essence a degree from them holds about the same worth as a degree from the OzSoapbox School of Magnificence.
This I believe is possibly just the tip of the iceberg. Best case scenario and Shannon is simply attending the workshop for the information being taught still leaves the thought that one of the inner circle members of Polaris is actively utilising Scientology teachings in her business.
What’s more she’s recruiting others to join her.
Shannon’s husband John Lavenia has also allegedly been promoting Scientology too. Reader Shawn has previously pointed out:
Perhaps the loyalist an doubters that own Lavenia’s book integrity is everything should check the additional recommended readings.
On page 193 where he recommends Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s ‘The Problem of Work’ or where he quotes Hubbard on page 158 or visit johnlavenia.com for more recommended readings where he will sell you and any other sucker a copy of teh (sic) Scientology books he recommends.
This presumably is in Lavenia’s book ‘Integrity is Everything’. While I haven’t confirmed the information myself it does seem to be a tad specific and easily refuted if not true.
Back in August I wrote about the departure from Liberty League of Michael Hamburger and Rhonda Swan. Despite being high up in the Liberty League chain it appeared the two had jumped ship for Lifepath Unlimited (a similar company to Polaris).
Whilst the exact reasons Hamburger and Swan left (I assumed it was to do with earnings and the pending changeover to Polaris) were never made public, the scam.com thread I linked to at the beginning of this post states:
Brent Payne’s sister Leslie (Michael Hamburger’s wife) decided to join Life Path Inc. another personal development Home Business due to the fact that she herself (an EMC member) did not want to become a Scientologist and lead an organization of people down the road of Scientology.
Now on it’s own it sounds far fetched but coupled with Shannon’s workshop and her husbands promotion of Scientology books, I’m not so sure.
Recently prominent EMC member Wendy Stevens also quit Polaris Media. I have read rumours she too has gone over to Lifepath (Update 23/10/2009: this has now been confirmed) and thus far the only publicly available information I’ve been able to find is this press release:
Wendy Stevens, who knows what it’s like to walk on and win, after nearly two years of preparation, is launching her new book, Walk On, and retiring from her full-time network marketing career.
Stevens has signed a book deal with the Resolute Creative agency to launch her next title Walk On, and to pursue her passion to teach, train, coach and mentor individuals to live their best life.
It appears Stevens has abandoned her Polaris business to pursue a solo career in the personal development industry promoting her own material.
Her departure comes just two months after claiming that Polaris was a business she could “really believe in” and “really be passionate about”.
The reason she left?
Well your guess is as good as mine however I do think it’s one of the following two reasons, perhaps even both.
a. The money just wasn’t there for her in Polaris’ new compensation plan. Let’s face it, you don’t just up and leave if you’re truly onto a good thing.
b. She came to the same conclusion Hamburger and Swan did and chose not to be involved in Scientology.
Either reason spells bad news for existing associates as they’re either working towards a path in Scientology or actively promoting a business that isn’t as lucrative or profitable as they might have thought.
The link between Scientology and Polaris Media Group is now concrete. How deep it goes is yet to be determined but the more I scratch around the less crazy the rumours seem to get.
I’m not saying everything written about Liberty League/Polaris and Scientology is factual but there certainly seems to be more weight to the claims then I originally thought.
Scientology teachings don’t exactly strike me as something you can do without any involvement in the religion.
If EMC members are promoting Scientology courses and literature then I can’t help but wonder just how far deep the connection goes within the Polaris organisation.
Welcome down the rabbit hole of the $ci-cult Oz.
It goes deep.
Beware of becoming a target of their “fair game” policy by revealing too much though.
for proof that Steven has jumoed to Lifepath have a look at this
http://www.radiolifepath.com
Hi,
Saw your post. I haven’t dug into Polaris Media Group at all. But when businesses are mixed up with Scientology it is usually through a program called WISE “World Institute of Scientology Enterprises”.
Their goal is to promote LRH Tech in businesses. Execusoft (the maker of diskeeper) is one of the more well know ones.
WISE tries to target small business owners. Especially chiropractors, dentists, mom & pop auto shops etc.
They offer their services as a way to increase sales & profitability of a business. It isn’t mentioned to the suckers that they are starting on Scientology programming.
Down the road in the program it will eventually lead to sending the small business owner down to the local scientology org for some sort of training to deal with personal issues.
They eventually convince the business owner that they need to send all of their employees to either disguised WISE training or out right scientology training programs. Of course those who don’t follow the game plan shouldn’t be trusted & should be fired.
BTW – Good research.
I thought Wendy Stevens was one of the owners of UWS…..why would she walk away from that money ?
Everything is publicly available.
Oz,
Thankyou for posting this.
I am doing some more research, and I persoanlly believe this goes alot deeper.
Shall be in touch..
Polaris Media group banging on about the north star “your one true north”
http://www.youtube.com/user/PolarisMediaGroup
Definition of “Polaris” as the north star
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris
Story from Today Tonight in Feb, stating a recording from L Ron Hubbard before he died. He lets us know that the planet all humans are apparently from is one of the planets of the north star.
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/5300692/none/world-exclusive-scientology-alien-secret-exposed
Crikey…..
So interesting and quite scary. John Lavenia is one of the key writers of the New Beyond Freedom Evolution. So glad to be out of this business ($20 000 down). Feel like a sucker. Trying hard to get my money back! Interesting Wendy Stevens is gone!
I am sure she has her reasons.
Perhaps it is because of the very reason this thread has started?
Perhaps the “money” is now alot less?
Who knows?
This is hilarious. Polaris and Scientology being “linked” by someone who obviously knows next to nothing about either.
I experimented with Scientology about 28 years ago – got too crazy for me real quick. But I learned enough to know that what PMG promotes and Scientology teaches are about as firmly linked as are apples and watermelons.
And I know Wendy personally – the residual income she’d built under the Polaris plan enabled her to retire and pursue something she’s always wanted to do – isn’t that the whole point of a home-based business?
Much like a trashy tabloid, it seems to me that you will find any seed to plant which you can sensationalise to self promote yourself as the savior of all for everything and anything you can possibly build a story around. Regardless of the truth in a matter, you seem to take selective snippets of information, collectively assemble and publish them and suddenly you have an apparently convincing argument. Tom Cruise is a senior Scientologist but does that impact his acting? So what if someone is into Scientology it doesn’t make them less of a person, unless you want it to. Misinformation or only ‘half a story’ seems a common theme here, and that is irresponsible.
Richard, people do not like being lied to.
Had I of known that Polaris was linked to this cult, I would have never stayed on with them.
The same as many many others who are now finding out I imagine…
The proof that Polaris Media Group is now publicly linked with Scientology is not really half a story.
Of course, if you have further to add…?
Shane Krieder told me himself that he and John Lavenia have written the new Beyond Freedom Evolution. This is extremely concerning when people are unaware they are being influence by the beliefs of Scientologists. It is devious. I have no problems with Scientologists but when you are taught there practices in this way it is wrong.
Richard what is irresponsible about being informed with the truth. Obviously you are still under the spell. (I was)
You’re right, being a Scientologist doesn’t impact on his acting.
But, assuming this article is true, being a Scientologist WILL impact on your Polaris Media Group experience and will help you to climb the PMG ladder.
You’re missing the point. The fact that you throw bits of information onto a blog post does NOT make it the truth. The only fact seems to be you create controversy out of very little. People feed of sensationalism, that’s a fact – look at any high ranking news story – the worse or more extreme it is, the more popular it becomes. You are simply creating attention the same as any other news service does – looking for the most negative angle and hyping it up. People act on information. If you control the information, you influence these actions. On the basis you are mis-informing people, that’s irresponsible.
Richard, what misinformation exactly? Be specific.
Have you seen the movie “Conspiracy Theory”. might be a good eye opener….
Someone using a Scientology building, and suddenly thery’re a Scientologist recruiting everyone into it. Firstly – thats inconclusive, secondly so what? Its not illegal.
Getting very defensive there Richard. I guess it’s because your website freedomisit.com forwards straight to PMG’s. Makes sense now 🙂
Of course, I am defending objectivity. You’re promoting your subjectivity with whatever spin you can create. Either you have a personal axe to grind, with PMG or Scientology, or maybe just the next thing that comes along you want to blame for your latest problem. I have been successful in everything I’ve ever done. Perhaps that’s because I accept responsibility, take accountability and do whatever it takes to make it work, rather than search for faults and looking to blame.
“So what?”
Yet another perfect example of the Polaris mentality.
It is all making sense now in regard to why these so called “inspirational movies” that were supposed to be on tv “everyehere” are few and far between, if seen at all.
If the main aganda is to recruit new members….. and the EMC are being compensated by the church Scientology for doing so…. well I guess the recruits making money would be a secondary focus?
If you accept responsibility, accept that you have mislead people.
Accept that the organisation you represent has put hundreds (thousands?) of people into finacial difficulty that will for some take years to remedy.
Accpet that Polaris even if it was not linked to Scientology (which it now publicly is) is an extremely flawed system set up to benefit those at the top of the pyramid only.
Accept that 85% of people in the company YOU REPRESENT end up losing money and not making a cent.
Above all this, I find it very interesting (but not surprising) that someone defending Scientology so much has a site linked with Polaris?
If you want to go on a crusade against Scientology or PMG, then say so and why. Its obviously something you perceive to be negative, but be open with the actual reasons. If someone else is it in to it or anything else, that’s not illegal then why does bother you so much? Sour Grapes perhaps. They have got something you want and you don’t like that?
If you believe that, then you must also conclude that the free market system across the entire world is flawed. The ratio within that system is way worse that the numbers you present. It grinds you that you are in the lower percentile and have to Soapbox your sad story. Sensationalism sells, and that’s all your doing.
I have been watching this debate. It’s great! I do think Richard has some good points. The others seem to be caught up in knocking things rather than a positive contribution.
Ok let’s spell it out for Richard as he is having a little trouble.
People have been misled.
Polaris would have lost many of it’s recruits if they had known of it’s links with a religion (?) such as Scientology (hence the EMC not telling them, and ignoring or deleting questions in that regard).
Also (and this will be the main one for alot of the people who will now leave) – the financial “opportunity” for recruits is NOT the focus now. Which is the reason why most people join- let’s be honest here. It sure isn’t the products..
And you say it is sour grapes when the company YOU represent has hurt so many people?
Richard, you are quite obviously an advocate of Scientology and Polaris, and just one of them would be hard to leave after a serious dose of brainwashing (cash if you are one of the few at the top ripping people off) so obviously this thread annoys you.
And you know what?
That’s good.
The more you write and get defensive, the more you show the link between Scientology and PMG.
Watch it Richard! Your not being a good PMGer as you are told not to debate on these forums! Go do you Beyond Freedom and follow the cult.
Thank you so much Oz. You are making a difference!
I am only defending a holistic purveying of information. I would have to say its the other way around. What will be tomorrow’s blame storm? They are always (at least) two sides to every story. Given you’re seeking to attract public attention you should probably come clean.
@ Richard “If you want to go a crusade against Scientology and PMG, then say so and why….be open with the actual reasons”. Oz has been MORE than open with his reasons for this crusade – every post goes back over the ongoing issues and problems. Read over ALL of them Richard…if you dare!
Seems like you have rattled them oz.
If Richard is genuine in saying that you are spreading misinformation, why doesn’t he correct it for us..?
When one sheep runs they all run. The others don’t know why they just follow. People love drama and sensationalism. The press and media companies of the world use this all the time and so many just lap it up, again and again.
You need to pull the wool away from you eyes and see that taking snippets of information and building them into an ‘intriguing’ rumour to create hype not fact, is the point.
If you form your opinions from this basis you will at best, have half the information. Anyone can be anyone on the Internet, this level of disinformation is easy to propagate & easily absorbed. Its used to be “its true, I read it in a book”, now “Its true, I read it on the internet”. Think about it…..
My name is James Larson and I am on the Executive Leadership Team with Life Path Unlimited. I was a former top earner with LLI and have been with Life Path Unlimited for 11 months. I love everything that I have seen here, especially the products. Life Path gives a money back guarantee on their initial product backed by the company. It is true that Wendy Stevens has joined forces with Life Path Unlimited, she has already been on two of our training calls and plans on taking over the monday night Think and Grow Rich Mastermind. You can go to http://RadioLifePath.com to hear for your own ears.
Nothing like an INFORMED opinion. Thanks Damon.
Richard. Next time you’re prospecting on the phone, please remember your statement above.. it just might save another poor soul from going bankrupt.
Happy to remember this whole conversation. When you’re misinforming them on the web, with hype and disjointed data its easy…..
Wow Oz, you have really rattled the scamming cultists as can be seen by Richard’s pathetic bleating. Here’s Wendy Stevens’ court record for fraud http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tcca/PDF/023/stevensw.pdf — it sure helps you rise to the top of these scams if you have previous experience of fleecing the poor innocents.
What…like Polaris Media *cough Scientology* Group?
Oz- Congratulations on rattling the cages of these people and getting them to feel the need to write on here.
You are making a huge difference 🙂
Hi Richard – gee you sound like your using classic scientology tech = “always attack, never defend”
Richards purpose is to derail the thread – he will never answer a question directly but will turn it around into another question
This is ofcourse only from my observations – I’m sure everyone here with a critical mind can come to their own conclusions — isn’t it great to be able to question things openly without a cult looking over your shoulder telling you how to think !
Oh , PS : don’t you just love those scientology.org ads appearing on the page
Thanks for all your comments, it’s a great help. I responded to a link I saw on an article for home business opportunity and eventually began to receive mails from someone. I was asked to talk about myself to see if I was qualified for the business. I was then sent a mail with a link that took me to the Polaris Media page showing movies. I am to be given a call after I have seen the movies. I wondered about all the secrecy, why was I not told outright what the business was about until I had supplied information about myself? It seems curious to me.
Nothing like punting your business, at the expense of anothers success.
Absolutely. Isn’t that Ironic…. They also appear to selectively avoid commenting on other Polaris type businesses. It does emphasise the whole point about lack of objectivity though.
Is that how they do it. I’ll have to take your word for it. I have little knowledge of their MO.
Seems she forgot to inform you personally about un-retiring
So much for an informed opinion!!
Been overseas for the last month… yes it is possible to travel without subscribing to PMG.. Great work Oz (and all the regulars) on keeping people informed.
Isn’t freedom of speech a wonderful thing!
@Richard Baldock
What exactly have I sensationalised or self promoted (besides posting the article on Twitter)? And I certainly don’t post everything and anything I get my hands on re. Polaris. This was just too co-incidental to ignore and meshed all too suspiciously.
So what did I leave out? Lavenia encouraged people to join her in a Scientology course at a Scientology school. This is not up for debate or refutable, the screenshot clearly shows this happening. Instead of attacking my ability to put 2 and 2 together, perhaps stop and ask yourself ‘why is this sequence of events happening in such a suspiciously co-incidental manner?’
It’s what I asked myself before I started writing the article and is the basis of it.
I don’t create these events or encourage them to happen. As someone who writes about Polaris when I see interesting developments occur I’m going to write about them.
What is the ‘other half’ of the story I’m missing?
It does when it’s a screenshot and clearly shows a link between Polaris and Scientology. One thing I make clear when I write here is the times I’m giving my opinion, additionally when I cite sources I reference them.
And what is the positive angle to be extracted from a Polaris EMC member encouraging people to join her in a Scientology course at a Scientology school?
Lavenia is not hiring out a random church hall to have a table tennis tournament. She’s actively encouraging people to join her in attending a Scientology course at a Scientology school, this is very specific and not open to interpretation.
This argument (which is not really an argument, but rather a detraction from the points raised via character assassination of myself) has been raised by Polaris associates from the beginning and I even wrote a standalone article address it.
Again, how is a screenshot of Shannon Lavinia promoting Scientology courses rumour?
@Damon
…Stevens retired to pursue continuing to sell personald development products? That lifepath blog link floating about clearly shows she hasn’t retired.
Do you actually know her or did you think that by watching a few Youtube videos of her you’re all of a sudden an intimiate part of her life. Either she thinks you’re a rubbish friend or you’re full of it.
keep it up oz, dont let the brainwashed throw you with their cut and paste responses. I thought they were all told to stay away from debating in public?
I’m led to believe that court document is for a different Wendy Stevens and not the MLM woman, although I don’t know her well enough (at all) to confirm this.
Saying ‘Im right and you’re wrong’ is far from debating.
Richards contribution is just the usual pmg rubbish. We’ve heard the same tripe from his like time after time with no real input.
They keep looking for an angle for Oz’s interest and just cannot see that his angle is purely in the interests of informing people of his point of view. The fact that 99% of the readers agree with him seems to evade their powers of observation.
Well this is a hilarious thread. Are people getting to the point of judging people based on their religion? Come on people, look at yourselves? What year are we in? What century are we in?
1- Who cares what religion people practice, I don’t
2- If I invited people to a “productivity seminar” held in a christian seminary hall, would I be put out and hanged?
3- If I practice Islam, and ran a company that taught personal development principles, will I be subject to stoning.
My question is to you all, is why should I care about this?
Discussing the viability of a business venture based on religious belief is really ridiculous guys. I expect better of people.
Mr James Larson,
If Lifepath associates would focus on being lifepath associates, they would make alot more money. Your constant comparison marketing of LLI/Polaris only hinders your income potential.
Look none of the leaders of LLI/Polaris/LifePath have never reached the levels of real top income earners in the direct sales/network marketing industry. No one has developed a consistent 7 figure yearly income in these companies. While there are many consistent 1million, 2 million, 3 million, 4 million, 5 million dollar earners in network marketing, there are none from these companies yet. Why, because of the type of marketing / posts like the one you just posted on this blog.
Marketing Strategy: Catch people who have been through the polaris information process while they are doing research and use negativity to sell your biz opp to them. Profitable approach but not a real top income earner approach. You will be stuck in the 6 figure / yearly range having to rebuild it every month.
As for Stevens moving over to your company: Great, what ever is best for her and her family.
But what really bites me, is people who go make 1 million dollars or 2 million dollars in 5 years and then decide to coach other people. When I never see the real top income earners in the industry (1-5 million dollars per year, consistently) go out and start coaching for a living. Maybe they are just to busy making (1-5 millions dollars per year residual).
Why is that?
I “Lisa Mcpherson” Cross-Examined Scientology and Polaris/North Star On Google and Found this interesting article in wikipedia…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera_in_Scientology_scripture#Coltice
Hubbard said that the following alien civilizations existed or still exist:
[edit]
In 1968, Hubbard gave details on Xenu’s “R6 implants”, which took place on a planet called Coltice. Coltice, according to Hubbard, orbits the star Polaris. Hubbard did not specify whether this means the largest, Polaris A (commonly known as the “North Star”) or the two smaller Polaris stars, Ab and B, in its trinary system. Coltice is said by Hubbard to be a member of the Galactic Confederacy. As with other Galactic Confederacy planets, the people of Coltice’s civilization looked much like Earth circa 1950-1960. Hubbard also spoke of a group on Coltice called the “Loyal Officers”, who sought to protect the planet from Xenu even though it was they who had elected him to power in the first place.[17]
[edit]
After reading this it scared me and I realized that Kridder is deeper into scientology than I thought…
In addition I think that he uses Shannon Lavinia as his front person…
She seems all nice and happy, but she is like the evil underlord of all it with Kridder controlling her brain and speaking through her as they chum it up at their houses in LA as best friends…
Kridder is probably a good man just led astray on a hocus pocus religion after he was cured by scientology practices of detoxifying his body of all drugs he tried after his skiing accident…This made him feel good and better about things and then he entrusted the church of scientology to his life and now practices to become a Thetan OT…
Therefore he was sold on scientology and uses Polaris as his life’s work to push the messages of scientology out to the public with his other “loyal officers”/EMC members…The inner circle…T
The LA EMC are tight knit and controlling, the other EMCers are on the outside…
Beware of being pushed out if you don’t become a Scientologist…
EMC members reading this…What are you thinking really?
Are you that greedy that it just doesn’t matter how you make money?
If you are going to do something with your life that is deceptive do something cooler like rob banks…
Kridder and Lavinia’s/North Star Marketing have doomed themselves associating with a religion that is down right manipulative and scary…
Scientology will be the end of Kridder Lavinia and Polaris.
Because Polaris is a verified front for scientology based on the wording Kridder uses in his speeches, company name, ect… they will be ruined!
You cannot have a personal development company leading to a religion, it just doesn’t seem to work…
Another Rant…
And having a company promoting entrepreneurship, but forbidding you from operating in other online companies selling products…Come on
entrepreneurship does not have a ceiling…Ok so if your a polaris distributor, your basically a glorified employee pretending to be an entrepreneur if your being limited and governed by what you can and cannot sell…I think that your “individual sovereignty” has been taken away…hahahaha “keep it light Kridder”
You cannot forbade people from being entrepreneurs promoting only real estate as to where they should invest- outside of your leases, do you invest in real estate? Some people don’t like or have the credit/capital to invest in real estate…
Shannon’s post above OUTRIGHT proves she is moving people towards Scientology– how blatant is that?
Shannon should take advice from Scientologist and detoxify her body.
Wendy leaving Polaris has obviously brought this whole conversation about and who knows why she left…
She is supposed to be a lesbian and Scientology definitely prohibits the acts performed by lesbianisms…
She probably had better opportunities with people that would promote her whether she is a “thetan meat body” (look up thetan meat body) or not.
In fact Scienblologists do not like anyone outside of their cultish black hat alien conventions…Have you seen the CEO of Scientology…What a piece of work…
Think about it…
If you knew that the owner of your company worshiped the devil, would you work for that company?
Well you know that Krider worships Hubbard as Tom Cruise does in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTKxtMGcvAY&feature=related, so why work for him and lead people on the scientology path..
Is that Krider & Shannon in the audience?
Here’s an Idea…Get Krider in action going to church of scientology in LA…Take pictures/videos and see for yourself…
At the end of the day in Polaris “the trinary star system” where the media group “loyal officers” came from, defenders of x-e-n-u are going to try to get you to understand and practice Advanced Technology that only they know about…
The advancement levels all lead to dirty money & a friendship with the Underground Underlord “Shannon,” who will disown you as soon as you cross her sweet little I mean “big” path and Scientologist activist Shane Kridder,
SO the question becomes, what is Shannon and Shane going to say about these “rumors,”
*they are just rumors,
*wikipedia is not the authority,
*we are simple entrepreneurs helping innocent men and women make I mean loose money as individual sovergn entrepreneurs I mean “glorified employees”…
*Or will they say nothing and act like they are not reading this…
If will be fun to see how they spin this one…they will probably threaten the owner of this site and take it down…
Well the bottom line is they are master manipulators and will confuse you into you not knowing what you just read…
They will call it lies, not comment, and realize that their new company will get labeled as a scientology front forever…And they will never be able to escape that…Ever…
Copy this article cause it may get taken down
Never heard of any of the structures mentioned here, except scientology, but they seem to be pyramid schemes.
Zhe outcome is always the same. The happy few who started them – and a few others that are good at it – make a lot of money out of the newcomers and show it to them as a proof of success. As it is unstainable, people rapidly jump out and start their own scheme.
Feel free to loose your money that way. There are always people ready to take it.
Scientology follows a slightly different model, but it also will help you spend your money in exchange of nothing valuable.
Josep, sorry to be blunt, but you are delusional.
When you ask “Why should I care about this?” …do you stop to think of the many people scammed by Polaris (now publicly linked to Scientology) that ALREADY HAVE THEIR OWN RELIGION?
I think Catholics and Christian members of Polaris – to name a couple of religions- would have a great deal of trouble with the FACT that Polaris in linked to Scientology. One of the main teachings is that God is a MYTH…that only those not enightened believe in God…
Wake up Josep… or, are you one of the EMC ripping people off and scared of losing your disgusting way of an income?
Oz- Congratulations. I have told quite a few people about this site and they are now leaving Polaris.
Nope, not part of EMC.
iwonder- Would Catholics and Christians have a problem with a company linked to Islam? Would Muslims have a problem with a company linked to Christianity? Would atheists have a problem with a company that was linked to beliefs in a God? Etc…
I think you are delving into a territory that you are ill equipped to handle.
and
to delve into your level of understanding—-> iwonder, you’re an idiot.
All of this debate is interesting but the there is a very simple solution to this issue. If I owned a direct sales company that was being linked to Scientology (but in reality wasn’t involved at all) I would come out with a statement unequivocally denying any involvement and state the truth so as to set the record straight. It’s time for Krider to come forth and do this. If he doesn’t, well…that says something too.
Hit a nerve Josep?
Tell you what, go meditate, do your Beyond Freedom, and try not to let Tony Rush find out you were on here…naughty naughty!
(Oh, and in case it isn’t clear for you- The FACT remains that Scientology in Polaris means that the focus is on RECRUITING NEW MEMBERS… not assisting them with personal development/financial gain. Methinks many of the remaining members who have not left yet will not be too happy about that….and I for one intend to show as many people as I can what crooks you are 🙂 )
Interesting idea…
An extremely interesting and disturbing read…
http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/10/church-scientology-defied-coroner-suicide/
josep:
You suggest judging people based on their religion is a bad thing? If you think this, then I believe you’re the idiot.
Religion seems to have earned this special protection from the usual rules of analysis and criticism.
If you don’t think that there are religions out there that are batshit insane, then you haven’t looked very far. To judge a person because they subscribe to one of these religions is absolutely what you should do.
The viability of PMG is highly questionable without the link to Scientology. That link just adds an extra layer of suspicion and sets off some more red flags.
And people of different faiths or those without faith could very well have an issue with companies that don’t share the same world view. I have a lot of respect for any organisation that does good. For me personally, I will almost always favour a secular charity, because, for example, when I donate money to help feed starving people in Africa, what these people need is food and education. Bibles and misinformation to push religious agendas isn’t what they need.
This is my opinion and feelings based on objective reasoning, and it’s naive to think that religion doesn’t play a part in these things, and when the religion is a cult, and let’s not kid ourselves, Scientology is a cult and is recognised as such in some countries, being aware and having the information at hand is absolutely essential.
Transparency is the key, and that only comes from openness, information and rational discourse.
You guys are hilarious.
Awww thanks Josep 🙂
(Must have done his Beyond Freedom today)
It’s not ridiculous at all, and whether you care or not is up to you. If my opinion is people who believe in what Scientology preaches are fruit loops, I’m perfectly entitled to think that. And you’re entitled to agree or disagree with an opinion. You’re also entitled to not visit this site if it’s something you don’t care about…but you do care, hence your replies.
Calling people idiots because they don’t agree with what you believe? And he’s an idiot? Yeah, right.
What century? Scientology is less than 60 years old.
Good news guys- I have posted a link to here on a networking profile of mine, and another person has left Polaris after learning of their links with Scientology and motives.
@Richard Baldock
Er… um… what did *G*F*C* stand for again? Global what?
Pardon me, but I thought we are currently witnessing the biggest, in dollar terms, FAILURE of the free-market economy to be self-regulating, requiring the biggest bailout by taxpayer dollars into private companies, some mind-bogglingly rich and influential, Socialised to stop Wall St imploding – Lee-mans, Bare Stern, Fanny Mac. Then there’s Mad-hoff with the mon-ey.
Seems to me your comment is internally *contradictory*; in a free market what *sells* is *good*, sensationalism *sells*, ipso sensationalism is good pure free market capitalism in action. So what’s your problem? You want *morality* to go with the fries? Some sort of regulation of direction (like they have in China?). You a SOCIALIST or something?
@josep
Is Scientology actually a *religion* (in any meaningful sense of the word), or is it just another scamming space (case) cult dressed up to look like one?
Josep,
I have no problem with people being Scientologists but when they write personal development programmes and sell them to the public who are unaware of their beliefs it is scary.
I know of four people out of Polaris within the last fortnight.
Keep it going Oz. Wish I had found you before i lost $20 000.
The ads on your page are scientology atm.
Co-incidence?
google ads – scientology organisation gets ads linked to any page that mentions them.
IF Shane Krider, Gene Braxton, John Lavenia and Shannon Lavenia are active Scientologists, that is their personal choice and I don’t believe anyone should begrudge them of that.
However, Liberty League/Polaris Media Group produces and promotes PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT PRODUCTS. Ask anyone who has actively participated in their “training and support” and they will tell you that 90% of the “training and support” has to do with mindset and personal development, not practical business building tactics or strategies. This is why so many people leave frustrated – because marketing is a difficult and potentially expensive skill set to learn and there is very little concrete training provided. In fact, the value of learning true business building skill sets is virtually ignored behind an attitude of “get your mind right and your business will fall in to place”.
In other words, the very nature of their business model CREATES the need for their personal development products because failure is placed on the individual, not on a flawed business model.
I think the real issue here is that there is NO WAY for a personal development company run by active Scientologists with a product line developed by active Scientologists (a religion accused by many of mind-control, abuse and secretive recruiting practices) to distinguish between their “religion”, their “business” or their “products”. They will be, by the very nature of the beast, one and the same.
So the crux of the deception, I believe, is that the partnership with The Church of Scientology isn’t fully disclosed. If people want to join an MLM selling personal development products based on Scientology teachings, they are free to do so and we should let them be.
BUT, if people join an MLM selling personal development products only to later discover, after they’ve invested thousands and thousands of dollars, that they’ve unknowingly not only been personally receiving Scientology teachings (either through the products, the company-sponsored “training and support”, or at the live events) but also selling personal development products based on Scientology, well that sounds like deception and fraud to me.
Of course we all know why this partnership has not been publicly revealed or disclosed by Polaris Media Group – because it would kill the marketing and recruiting for the Polaris Media Group business opportunity. Ask any former associate and they will tell you Liberty League/PMG was a tough sell (except for a few talented individuals with exceptional telephone sales skills) without the Internet abuzz about a controversial connection to a suspect religious organization.
With that said, I believe we should let Polaris Media Group off the hook with this one caveat: many Polaris Media Group marketers advertise the business’s connection to the teachings of the book and movie sensation “The Secret” on their marketing pages. Given that the precedent has already been established, I don’t think it’s asking too much for all PMG marketers to be required to disclose, in both their online and offline marketing campaigns, the following:
“THIS BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY’S PRODUCTS, TRAINING AND SUPPORT ARE BASED ON AND ENDORSED BY THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY”.
At least then people would know what they’re getting in to BEFORE they respond to an advertisement.
Full Disclosure: THAT’S what integrity looks like.
P.S. – Ironically, ABC News here in the states is currently running a series on alleged Scientology abuses. Anybody unclear as to why this connection is important to understand should take a few minutes and look at this investigative reporting.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/scientology/
P.S.S. – As far as the ads on Oz’s website go: The Church of Scientology is running either a CONTENT campaign on Google Adwords or a SITE TARGETED campaign on Google Adwords.
The first type of campaign will place their ad on sites containing relevant keywords (in this case it’s most likely the keyword “Scientology”) and the second type of campaign will place their ad on sites they specifically choose, such as BehindMLM.
No, it’s the same Wendy Stevens. She talks about this lightly in one of her videos. She’s a felon.
As far as PMG and Scientology, who knows. Polaris’s basic product is a DVD called “Know For Yourself” which is (I would think) about as much of an anti-cult message as can exist. But I still don’t see the point. Tahitian Noni is run by Mormons. Amway is run by fundamentalist Christians. Melaleuca is run by Mormons. And all of these companies are engaged in “teaching” and “training” their associates. Does that mean they’re recruiting people into their religions? I doubt it. Who cares what religion someone is in? As usual, Oz is just engaging in sensationalism.
John
I beg to differ on this point. I have seen the damage that Scientology inflicts on the lives of people who have become involved, even at the periphery. Scientology and scams like LLI/PMG both leave enormous collateral damage in their wakes. I hate to think what a combination of the two would do.
Anti-cult would be telling people to go read whatever they want and draw their own conclusions based on a number of factors such as credibility and reliability of the information source(s).
Oz,
That is exactly what is proposed on the dvd.
Just an FYI, from someone who has seen it.
The Know For Yourself DVD is more of a “Cult Busting” dvd.
So Shane Krider believes he is a “Thetan Meat Body” and he is from the Polaris Trinary Star System.
Is he?
Does he want you to believe that?
What about the “Meaty Shannon?”
Does she believe that?
Is she a “Thetan Meat Body” or just a “Meaty Body?”
Can we even speculate on this or is it just too far fetched…
Should we laugh about this or try to help them?
I have a lot of questions and no answers…
Really? A dvd that encourages people to dismiss all information not put out by Polaris isn’t cult like? Anti-cult would be telling people to go read whatever they want and draw their own conclusions based on a number of factors such as credibility and reliability of the information source(s).
Scientology’s history provides more then enough sensationalism, all I had to do was take a screenshot.
@RT
Excellent post RT.
To which I would add a reverse-angle view; that anybody *with* those skills would have much the same reaction many have had on first sight – huh? wah? wot? Six-figure income with no work, no selling, no outlay, instantly profitable (but it’s a secret). Bank robbery? Credit card fraud? If you have any practical experience around a real business this has to look and smell like a scam and a cult from the get-go.
In my experience it has been important to build long-term ongoing relationships with clients, even obvious one-offs. With these Personal Development products it seems to me that the ongoing potential with each client is seriously limited, requiring a constant flow of new clients to replace the missing constant flow from existing clients.
“Passing-up” only hides the reality of the need for an exponentially expanding (or at least constantly churning) bottom layer.
@josep
Quite so; and it is a matter of record that the managers of LLI/PMG are telling their associates NOT to read ANY critical material, to make no personal evaluation.
When it comes to doing due research, intending associates will encounter “impartial” reviews of LLI c/f Lifepath (&c) that are actually shills put up by parties with vested interests. This is clearly a deceptive and unethical practice.
An ethical business doesn’t have to defend its operations with a snowstorm of bullshit, as has happened here. I’ve been there more than once, and I’ve walked away a winner by being open, truthful, and playing with a totally straight bat; checkable facts, documents, honest answers.
MLM, LLI, PMG, Scientology, and all the rest of the alphabet soup are just a bunch of New Age business-cultists playing with real money – yer good ol’ Three Card Trick.
Here’s the sales pitch for Know For Yourself:
It’s pretty clear the tone the dvd is going to take.
Tony Rush actively tells associates on his Polaris Ning forum to not give any attention to ‘negativity’ on the internet, and who knows what else is advised non-publicly. Krider even had some words about ‘those blogs on the internet’ at the Supercharged Saturday event back a few weeks back if I remember correctly.
For a further example of company censorship just look at the comment left by CCPRO Corporate this morning after one of their associates (not sure what CC call their ‘entrepeneurs’) started discussing their company.
With all the press releases, social networking, youtube video spamming and whatever else Polaris get up to one this is clear – they don’t want people reading information about the company released by anyone but themselves.
The thing I really don’t understand is why everyone is so vitriolic on these boards. I joined LLI, invested up to the hilt, lost all my money and never succeeded because I couldn’t bring myself to market something that had so financially ruined my family.
But why is everyone so stinking angry here? What’s the point of slinging hateful statements? If anything you guys could help all of us poor saps, who joined simply to help our own families, by starting a class action law suit. At least then you’d be doing something productive rather than saying Tony rush might find out where you were. What is that? How old are you? Do you really communicate like that in real life?
What if there’s a slim chance that it’s not true, are you going to apologize to this Richard guy for his determination in trying to get his money out of HIS business? What good are you doing by bitching him out?
Why not lend a hand! We’ve already been smacked down. Sheesh!
Joy,
Don’t you think these boards help to warn others of the danger of Polaris Media Group. I wish it was up and running when i was first sucked in.
We are also making fun of ourselves and how we were all sucked into this cult-like business.
I do think it is a good idea about starting a class action law suit.
I have been directed by the OFT to take my advisor and PMG to a tribunal.
Has anyone else been successful in doing this?
{I’ll just leave this here}
PARIS (Reuters) – A Paris court on Tuesday fined the French branch of the Church of Scientology a total of 600,000 euros ($902,200) after finding it guilty of fraud but allowed the group to continue operating in France.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091027/ts_nm/us_france_scientology_ruling
I would hope some one from polaris would clear this up. they talk about pouring positive media all over the net. wonder how this one slipped past them.
Why would you even say that John Galt–>
This is a goober statement and confirms the fact that over in PMG: “The Blind Are Still Leading The Blind”
Those companies you mentioned are not personal development companies…
They are selling consumable items…
You are border line sounding like a corporate EMC meat body…
YOU DORK!
Shifting the offensive attack onto other companies like all underground sleuth Scientology manipulators are taught, when your representing a company that is clearly Scientology driven and teaching those principles through their products…
The companies products you mentioned are not education on how to live your life…
PMG claims they are a life coaching company, but the only way you can become a certified life coach/EMC or whatever is to attend the Hubbard School of Scientology…
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME! WAKE UP…You are either duped yourself or duping others…Either way their is no excuse for your stupidity…
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I would not want to be life coached by a scientologist…
Ok so forget about scientology for a minute…Is PMG a viable company?
UHMMMM>>>>>
Well you can’t forget about that MAJOR FACT because it is a personal development/life coaching company run by and teaching values, practices, and beliefs of Scientology…
It would be different if they were selling tangible products like the companies you mentioned…
Or if they just came out and said “hey we are a scientology based company…”
John Galt, what I got from you in that statement is number #1 you are clueless, #2 you are probably an PMGer yourself, #3 You are probably even on EMC, #4 You are a professional manipulator, #5 You are a sensationalist yourself, #6 you really don’t think before you speak…
Sensationalism…Sensationalism is pretending to be a personal development company when you are a scientology company…
Interesting, everyone here is talking about the Scientology link to this company, but no one knows anything about Scientology. Do your research….
Simple google search would pull up the following:
These actions are outlawed in Scientology-
Practicing Scientology outside of the Scientology Umbrella Organization
“145) Organizing splinter groups to diverge from Scientology practices still calling it Scientology or calling it something else.
“146) Organizing a splinter group to use Scientology data or any part of it to distract people from standard Scientology.”
The point is that the link is very weak. As for it being a pyramid, that will never be proven or taken to court. The evidence is just not there. If it was, easy enough to bar PMG from doing business in Australia. In the US it would take 2 weeks. Australia, would be faster.
LLI/PMG and Scientology are just two sides of the same coin. Both aim to separate people from their hard earned money and both are run by unscrupulous and cynical scam artists who prey on those who are often at their most vulnerable. Maybe they are both in the strictest sense legal, but they are certainly both immoral, unethical and possibly evil.
Yeah so is running a pyramid scheme in Australia yet this didn’t stop Liberty League from running here for 2 years. Credibility or religious ethics isn’t something I associate with either Scientology or LLI/Polaris.
Josep a “simple” Google search will ALSO reveal that Scientology uses numerous “Front” organizations for recruiting purposes such as Narcanon, Applied Scholastics, Citizens Commission on Human Rights, Concerned Businessmens Association of America, Prosperity Magazine, and WISE. Each and every one of these organizations lure people in with the promise of “fixing” their problems only to be introduced to Scientology as the answer. Not too big of a leap for them to address the “problem” of money with PMG (i.e. Scientology) as the “solution”. VERY effective recruiting method for Scientology.
My problem, again, is not with those individuals who choose to practice Scientology as that is a matter of personal choice. My problem is that the connection is not disclosed.
Usually in these conspiracy theories there is a money trail to be revealed. Why would PMG be a front organization for Scientology? No money in it, and pmg will never supply enough recruits to make it remotely fruitful for Scientology. Scientology 10 million members and pmg 3 thousand .And from research I have done the 2 business models do not lend to each other, they run parallel to each other so PMG would a be a useless feeder program. What is the pay off?
Again, if you are going to have a good conspiracy theory you must define the money trail. No money trail, no conspiracy. This is fundamental in establishing a link.
Let’s see, the “money trail” would be this:
(1) John Doe spends $25,000 to join PMG, which he believes is a stand-alone, legitimate business opportunity.
(2) John Doe uses the personal development products, attends the training and live events but still can’t generate a profit, as is the case with well over 95% of PMG associates (rumor has it that LLI’s income disclosure calculation only included those individuals who actually sold two Beyond Freedom packages, which would exclude a vast majority of their historical associate base from this calculation).
(3) John Doe is reluctant to throw in the towel so he seeks advice from a “leader” either through personally or through recommendations made on the “leader’s” Facebook profile, book,website or live training calls.
(4)The “leader” then recommends a Scientology front program as the “solution”, the “fix”, the “additional training” that will make all the difference.
(5)John Doe is now on Scientology’s radar and if he bites, he’s now on the fast track for a curriculum that will cost him upwards of $600,000.
(6) Oh, and that referring PMG leader who JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE A SCIENTOLOGIST? They personally get a little piece of that $600,000 action for referring John Doe to Scientology.
THERE’S your money trail Josep. $25,000 to $600,000 in six easy steps.
Joseph you are obviously a scientologist or pmg legal counsel or emc and that is not a simple google search…
The fact remains that the emc are trained as
scientologist and pmg is teaching Scientology
through so called personal development and then
getting phone calls by Scientology recruiter like you
to join the cultish religion…
You are just another master manipulator and
wise ass…
Stop duping people and helping the cover up…
The fact remains people don’t want to be involved or
associated with that religion period and at this point
there is nothing you can do about it.
Josep- why do you care so much?
There is now no doubt that Josep is a scientologist. Only one of them could claim a membership of 10 million for their scumbag religion. The real numbers are a little lower (55,000 in USA and maybe another 50,000 in the rest of the world) as you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Membership_statistics This completely negates his whole point about there being no payoff for collusion between the two scams.
Just thought you all might be interested that Rania from Six figure chicks has also left PMG. Also a couple who were on EMC have gone. People leaving in droves. Yippee.
RT- No payoff, no money trail. 99.99% of people coming into a bizop like pmg does not have or has has access to 600k. The fact remains there is a zero chance that pmg serves as a supposed feeder program.
Lisa- Nope not a EMC. Not a Scientology. Not a meat body. Not legal counsel for anyone. Not a lawyer. Don’t know Shannon, don’t know Lisa. I am not a NAZI either.
Not defending anything just laying out my opinion just as you are laying out yours.
Iwonder- I care about the conversation. The debate. The 2 sides of a story. Be kind of boring just to have meat bodies and distributor drones engaging in these debates Wouldn’t it?
He is either head Scientology recruiter or meaty Shannon told him to come defend Polaris and the loyal officers…
I am guessing he is the guy that calls all the recruits referred to him by pmg or a fact finding thetan trying to publicy defend the freaky alien fire walkers…
Go defend Lisa Molina and her public image which has been ruined
every since her auditing brought out the fact she allegedly
slept with the primary and former leader(s)of pmg and caused a
certain couple a divorce…
She is who needs public defending… guess you gotta hand it to
Scientology for that one exposing one of the “all smiles” sleuths…
I gotta give it to Shannon for not sleeping around
but then again no one probably wanted to.
So how many people did Lisa Molina sleep with?
@josep
Speak for yourself.
I’ve been close enough to aquire the circuit of the wonderful E-meter such as was sold to the French woman for 20,000 Euros, a very unremarkable Galvanic Skin Resistance meter built out of parts costing around $20.
But you tell us all about it (I’m in the mood for a good belly laugh).
@josep
More bunk. There is such a thing as a conspiracy of *interest*. These New Age modalities may or may not have a money element, but they always have a personal power element. Money is not the only motivation.
Connected or not, LLI and Scientology are birds of a feather.
So Josep, after saying a while back that you could see $5 million dollars a year coming from PMG, now you declare there’s no money in it. Make up your mind man.
By the way.. Rania from the infamous SixFigureChicks has just posted on Whirlpool her resignation confirmation.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1206044&r=21341830#r21341830
With EMC members actively promoting Scientology books and courses, how on earth can you say there’s zero chance of Polaris being a feeder program with any credibility?
The following info was provided via email:
With 60% of the Malaysian population following Islam, I don’t think they’re going to feel very good about it at all.
I have also heard that they hope to move into China!!!
I can just see them hammering their little bandit signs into telegraph poles….they would be shot at dawn!
Their next conference is supposedly happening in China. With the link to Scientology and their track record with Liberty League, it will be very interesting to see how the Chinese authorities deal with it.
Shot at dawn…….. sounds like a plan!!
martin,
no money to be made from moving people from pmg to Scientology. Read carefully.
Roly,
The only reason for a conspiracy is money. Money is power. If one does not see it, look deeper, if the money is not there, there is no conspiracy. A conspiracy of interest just means the money trail is well hidden but it is there.
What is boring is your repetition of the same inane tripe.
I tought you were told to ignore this site.
🙂
Josep, really? No money to be made?
According to Wikipedia’s source “Auditing as a Career” (a Church of Scientology publication) “The Church pays members 10% commissions, called FSM (Field Staff Member) commissions, on new recruits they bring in who take a course or get counseling.”
According to the price schedule posted on http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html the current (conservative) total cost for the whole bridge to OT9 readiness is estimated at $365,000 – $380,000.
10% of $380,000 = $38,000
It looks to me there’s at least $38,000 to be made on every PMG associate who also joins Scientology per the “advice” and “leadership” of the top income earners at PMG.
“But most people don’t have that kind of money” you say. According to just one testimonial on the http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/hardsell.html site:
Andrea Catt: People were persuaded to re-mortgage their homes, sell their homes, cash in the policies supposed to pay off their mortgages, borrow against pensions, sell family jewels, borrow from their families, sell their cars. Anything you can possibly imagine that a person could do to raise money, people were persuaded to do to pay into Scientology. […]
Looks to me like it’s not only possible, but very likely.
Iwonder- If I seem repetitive it is because I respond to your repetitive diatribe. At least I give you a purpose and reason to post.
RT- Realistically your scenario is highly unlikely and the numbers of people able and willing to follow such a track are very small. The numbers just don’t make sense. But you are free to think as you wish.
If I didn’t bother to read previous comments I would’ve thought that you were talking about the reality of Polaris, funny how you can say that about Scientology, but can’t realise how the same applies to Polaris.
You could so easily delete ‘Scientology’ from the last sentence above and replace with ‘Polaris Media Group’.
Read carefully Josep … it will eventually click!
Martin and James,
30k and 380k are vastly different in scope. Second people buy into franchises 300k – 1million dollars everyday and the majority of them fail and many remortgage their homes, sell their pensions etc… and end up bankrupt.
That is the way of the entrepreneur. 70 percent of millionaire entrepreneurs have been bankrupt at least once.
Read carefully guys maybe you will get it.
Are you really that naive to suggest that an organisation linked to Scientology, and labelled a Pyramid Scheme can be compared to legitimate business?
I am curious to know how much YOU have made and shelled out for this scam, and in seeing proof.
hmm, no not really.
See the REASON for posting at the top of this thread.
Then go do your Beyond Freedom.
Hey guys, Tony Rush is banging on about the new “NorthStar Marketing System” now….asking people what they think of it.
One comment was that she would let him know when she was able to actually get in with her login.
Ha- “marketing system” what a crock.
Hey iwonder,its a pity you weren’t this focussed when you were an associate.Maybe you would have been a success!!What type of an individual spends all of their time digging around social networks and websites of an organisation that they despise. Move on in your life.
Problem is Josep that many of these people are not entrepreneurs, but everyday people who take many years to pay back this type of money. I know of a single mum who lives in a caravan who took out a personal loan to pay for her conference tickets. She was praised for doing this.
Who is responsible? How would you feel if you signed this person up?
She is now back on the pension.
Got my papers from Department of Fair Trading today. Going to tribunal.
Something rehashed/plagerised that he is flogging off to the unsuspecting no doubt!! Anything to make an extra dollar from his victims. What a knob!
Where’d you pull these figures from? Would sure make interesting reading.
Aha! I’ve got it now:
PMG is a not a Franchise company.
PMG independant distributers are not entrepreneurs.
You’re a very confused person Josep. Too much time on the training/brainwashing calls me thinks.
Edward, Not about being successful in the business but having a conscience. Ripping people off.
@Edward “What type of an individual spends all of their time digging around social networks and websites of an organisation that they despise. Move on in your life” And exactly why are you at this website???
Simple,I like the articles,OZ’s writing style and views on different issues,reading and sharing others opinions etc… I prefer this to mainstream media coverage of events,it just feels more real to me..and I enjoy it..sorry if that offends you..
No offence taken..just curious. iwonder, like may other people on this thread, have been burnt badly, and use available means to follow what those responsible have been doing with their funds…In some ways a healthy response to “Move on with your life” is justice.
In some ways, if people like Oz did stop “digging around social networks and websites of an organisation that they despise” this would not have come out and Polaris not facing the scrutiny it is…
I understand what you’re saying Mezza.
Peace!
Awww everybody group hug!
{you all done with your warm fuzzies now?}
Welcome @/B/oris.
Hi @Joy,
In one of the early LLI threads I made some critical comments, but I also made a clear call for everybody who feels done down by this deal to get together, or at the very least *co-ordinate*. I was generally howled down for trying to start a Movement or something. I was actually thinking more along the lines of justice and recompense.
It should still be there, but I’ll try and find and repost here.
{or maybe Oz can simply link to it? This is the hyper-inter webby thingy after all.}
@josep
Sorry, that won’t fly. Basic one-to-many logic flaw, not to mention…
Martin,
A little insight into franchises.
http://www.moyak.com/papers/franchising-failures.html
Basing your research on 1995 figures says a whole lot about what you write Josep…. I’ll leave it at that!
“To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”
Japanese proverb.
Martin,
Nothing has change in the world of franchising since 1995.
and my opinions and research are based on my success in both franchising and network marketing. Don’t take my word for it, find out for yourself. The franchising industry is what it is…just like network marketing, the number of people who “fail” greatly outweighs the ones that do succeed. Like all entrepreneurial pursuits.
Oh, and I have. Thankyou for your amazingly insightful and wise advice. Ha!
But funny thing is, I can multitask….and do my utmost to expose you as fraudsters 🙂
Question: What do YOU have planned for when Polaris goes bellyup?
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/mad-scientologists-caught-in-a-web-of-their-own-making-20091031-hqqu.html?comments=28#comments
More scientologists scamming!
Was Scammed- Something that just stood out in that artice:
Sounds exactly like the old Liberty League/PMG…they had no problem telling people to ignore unsupportive friends and family.
Great research. I have found LLI is a very “spiritual” group but didn’t understand the connection to Polaris. It seems Brent Payne kept things grounded. Does anyone know whats happened to brent payne?
I found this article about Polaris compensation plan and the link to LLI http://www.lucrativeturnkeybusiness.com/Polaris-Media-Group.html
A class action suit seems to be in order. i am looking into it because when I joined LLI, I was supposed to be in a “money making position for life” with the initial investment covering that. Now with Polaris, I would have to invest more in that. “Sour grapes”… yes a bit, but the techniques are deceptive. Foolishly I fell for it all…my responsibility and my mistake, but the company bears responsibility for what it promotes, then abruptly changes; And must be responsible for full disclosure. Buyer beware. I did not pay enough heed to those warning me about all of “this type of thing”. But all of these that include downline, upline, passups, MLM models are all about the money. We all want to earn good money, but possibly it can be done with less deception and more product consciousness. Maybe in another universe…good lesson and hopefully well learned.
95% of people fail at most things and ALWAYS blame someone else. Take a look around. 5% of the people hold 95% of the wealth because they are accountable.
they are on purpose.
they do not blame something or someone or the system …..bla bla bla….it wasn’t my fault….poor me…boo hoo… WAKE UP to yourselves and stop making up silly childish stories.
Polaris is what it is. A great positive educational company with the perfect business plan.
these soapbox thingies are chinese whispers on the net….. I feel so sorry for the people who actually believe most of the absolute garbage that is written by fools.
Fools believe what fools write.
What a great world this would be if we all just stopped complaining…be positive and attract positive results.
If you have lost your money GUESS WHAT! ITS YOUR FAULT! BE ACCOUNTABLE…You Only Lose if you QUIT….and it seems there are a lot of QUITTERS in the world…..95% of them.
It would seem that they have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Who will buy the package now that it is associated with a bunch of people that believe the Emperor Nazi Goring is going to beam in from the Planet Zorgon and fix all the problems. The scientologists will not buy it as they believe they are the elite of the earth with no problems. They might just as well become Moonies or Hari Krishna’s or at least extreme Muslims as that is a recognized religion not a cult.
More public linking of Polaris Media Group /Liberty League International to Scientology.
PMG/LLI Associate of the Month, Denmark Francisco doing videos in front of his extensive Scientology library.
PMG is not a front for Scientology. It is a company that is recruiting it’s members internally to join the Scientology religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt78bbCxblk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-g0Co08nU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voj2LuHAKC8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsLwmxLP6HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0fqsHe7Fp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVzTauP-jS4
Equally, I would say that if you have ripped people off and have to pay the money back to people in a class action lawsuit- I would say it is your fault.
I get why you are writing, I really do, I was in that same mindset.
I just hope you realise before you lose too much more money.
Best of luck to you.
LL you are so well programmed in the LLI/polaris rhetoric. So convinced of the model and products and their life changing capabilities. Been there, done that and got so bored and tired of the mindless repetitious droning. Sorry LL, know I made a dumb mistake and “owning” it. Right …the “opportunity” is meant for mindless drones that ga ga over each other and whine on about how successful they are for sucking people into the overpriced nonsense. The 95% who don’t continue are all so much less than you programmed “winners”. It would be torture for an independent thinker to be associated to long with this mindlessness disguised as enlightenment, no matter the “huge” income you may be ” attracting” Blah Blah Blah as you whine on and pat yourself on the back. We all deserve what we get.
I guess you would class me as a fool for writing on here about losing $50k+ to LLI. I certainly feel foolish.
If you ever get your head out of your ass long enough, you will see that in life, most people are successfull at what they do… it may not be what they ‘want’ to do, but invariably they are successfull at it.
Whatever happened to the 80/20 rule? Polaris are feeding you bull.
Now you’re just being a knob. The company has been in existance a wet week and you’re telling us how great it is??
Come back in six months when/if you’ve some proven
Mate. You’re stuck in La La land. Good luck with that.
Hi everyone. I am one of the lucky ones( but didn’t do enough home work before signing up) who got out early enough and lost only a hundred bucks or so. I initially got suspicious after receiving this email from my advisor the day after I purchased Beyond Freedom.
“Great hear from you then. I suggest you look at the information regarding the conference tickets – if at all possible – purchase both – this way you will be a the top end of the comp plan eligible to receive all bonuses without having to qualify monthly. Understand it may not be in the budget just see how you go.
Regards,
Lauren”
See how this scumbag is trying to suck as much money out of me funny enough only a few days before the changeover to PMG.
I was honest and explained that I couldn’t afford the tickets and wanted to get started selling beyond freedom asap so I could then afford them. I then didn’t hear from my advisor unless I made contact. After a week with beyond Freedom(I didn’t even bother to open It) I sent it back for a refund.
I am Thankful that I am one of the lucky ones. Does this scenario sound familiar I wonder??
I meant scumbag by the way and I nearly became one myself. So to all of you who have fallen back to reality I hope all of you have apologized to anyone you deceived and ripped off all for Scientology!!
I wans’t with this scam for very long…and of course (like most unknowing people) would have run a mile anyways if I knew the focus was on recruiting Scientology members and not on helping people to make money.
The number of people “signed up” with me was extremely minimal. I emailed information (including this website) to them and told them to run as fast as they could. This was BEFORE they purchased anything.
Yes, they are extremely good at not giving a crap unless you give them cash. My advisor ignored my calls asking for advice on advertising etc, but when I was thinking about purchasing a conference ticket (thankfully I didn’t), he was MORE than happy to talk to me. Day or night. Apologising profusely for not calling me back. I ended up not purchasing the ticket as I said, and never heard from him again- despite emailing him with a few questions about POlaris.
These people are RUTHLESS.
Advice to anyone thinking of giving it a go as it is their last resort- If you are in debt now, how will another 50k or so being in debt help?
I am already pushing a few buttons at Polaris….p*&sing a few ppl off by being open about my findings….I hope that others are doing the same.
iwonder
Keep up the good work/fight. By the way when I finished off my previous message with “I wonder” it wasn’t directed at you rather a figure of speach.
Ha- yes I know 😉 All good.
And thankyou, I am keeping up with informing people about this scam. The EMC don’t like it, but meh- whadda ya do 😉
I think the person to thank here is Oz though.
Without this blog, there would be alot more families ruined by this scam.
Oz- don’t ever forget that! And THANKYOU!!
Jeeez! I must be getting soft…. Twice now in the past few days, I find myself agreeing with you!
(Only messin’ with ya iwonder!)
People such as yourself deserve the credit too. It takes alot of guts to come on here and admit to making some poor descisions. Respect to you for that.
PolarisMediaGroup and their like depend a great deal on people being so embarrassed by ‘failing’ at their scam, that they prefer to walk away, losses included, and forget about the whole sorry experience.
I wouldn’t be expecting a Christmas card from the EMC if I were you!!
aaaahahahaha you reckon?? With Polaris going under due to people now knowing about the Scientology link, I would be checking SEEK and not concentrating on Christmas cards if I were them…
Seriously though, the impact this blog has had is HUGE. The amount of people in my immediate circle as such that have left because of it is amazing.
The sheer amount of both money and mental anguish that has saved people….well Oz is to be commended.
Some are already there…. and Tony Rush is flying off to some meeting tomorrow as well..
I wonder if they charge each other for their internal meetings 🙂
Thanks for the continued support guys.
I’ve heard on good authority that apparently EMC members are being flown to LA for an “urgent crisis meeting” of some sort next week.
Can’t imagine what that’s about.
The only real was to know why Wendy left PMG is to ask her. Has anyone done that? Supposing is just making a very uneducated guess is it not?
Oz Think this is great. Been reading with interest for a while, you have a great blog and some good contributors.
My point………got involved with LLI about 12 months ago. Really only wanted to see beyond Freedom as a product and if it could help me or not, then look at the wild income claims.
My background is corporate…highly successful with the UK’s biggest retailer (and the worlds 3rd largest as a hint)was a big six figure earner and I am relativly young. Wanted my own business and left to set it up (not LLI or Polaris). Business was failing when I got beyond freedom. Started using beyond freedom and my life changed (business and private!)Got rid of the business and was going to have a go at Polaris properly.
Went to Barcelona for the “Super Saturday” and had a fantastic time, was great fun and thought Krider and Levinia were actually really inspirational and took everything I had learned in corporate life to a tangible level.
The problem was…somthing just did not feel right. When you mixed with the EMC they were on their guard. They huddled together alot…
I did speak to people who like me used BF and got some value.
Last point… I don’t really see how it is so much different from any other business. People lose money..fact..people make money..fact. It is how it is explained that is the core issue, I will not be persuing a business op with Polaris anymore…but I will continue to apply Beyond freedom to my everyday life and instead of moaning about losing my money I will use it to my advantage.
Oh…Just one more thing……!
Oz…thanks for exposing the scientology link..if you need any inside info just email me..though I have probably compromised myself giving the same history I do on the BOC calls.
Good luck all
Well said Columbo – I totally agree with everything you said!! I to was part of LLI/Polaris, love the Beyond Freedom product and will continue to use it every day but as you say it wasn’t so much the original products that was the problem it’s the hidden agenda behind it all that is never exposed, the way it is explained etc…. I have left because where there are little lies or omissions there are sure to be huge ones behind all those!!
The curriculum as they call it was written by these people so to say that the curriculum going forward after Brent Payne left has no Scientology aspects to it would be ridiculous. I will not be purchasing any of the new products but as I said will continue to enjoy the classic Beyond Freedom!
The lies from EMC members and Shane himself are overwhelming and that is my issue, but it is all in hindsight, what can you do but move on and know that we now see it for what it is.
As much as I understand what you are doing here with this blog I think bigger action than this needs to be taken if they are to be stopped or at least made to disclose the entire system and business for what it really is and what they actually stand for.
Just out of interest, does anyone know if anyone has actively pursued reimbursement or compensation or a class action suit in Australia against them???
thanks guys!!
I also agree with everything you have said Columbo. I too loved the Beyond Freedom but I am finding it hard to pick up due to being so disappointed in the whole business.
I am now about to begin a diploma in Life Coaching and make something positive out of my experience.
My biggest worry is that the new Beyond Freedom Evolution is being written by Scientologists, (as i have mentioned before).
I don’t think any religious group should be able to write Personal Development programmes without mentioning what their religious beliefs are.
I agree and because we were sold all this under false premise that makes me wonder if there is anything we can do.
She has gone to Lifepath, which I know on VERY good recommendation.
Anthing else?
Yeah she has and I don’t blame her, not that I have any intention of following, but its great to see the “leaders” of Polaris jumping ship to the competition. Just goes to show just how bad it must be at Polaris!!!
I also know that the EMC are all being flown to LA for a meeting, fat lot of good that is going to do them now!! Maybe they can all get together to talk about how much integrity they all have…… pfft!!
isn’t Life path , virtually the same thing , same overpriced products and seminars, just run by different people
Its not the “overpriced products or seminars” that is the problem, its all the BS about scientology and lack of integrity and lies about who they are and what they represent that is the problem.
Joe Neid (LPU) use to be part of LLI quite high up in the ranks and was apparently “let go” because of some illegal stuff – how true that is god only knows given all the Polaris EMC leaving to work with him now and the fact that that information came from current Polaris EMC members, so probably not true at all!!!
I heard Polaris is throwing in the towell and going out of business.
Their Scientology association has created a nightmare for them and something will never be able to escape!
Gotta hand it to Brent for seeing it coming!
I also heard that recent & former EMC members are heading to the Trump Network.
How is Kridder handling that one? Is he laughing about it….hahahahahahahahah.
men and women of individual soverignty are leaving your lrh ass!
You and Shannon can sit around an talk about how we don’t know what we are talking about and discredit all we are saying but we know you read these blogs and know it is killing your internal dynamics.
Sorry but both of you screwed up when you started promoting Scientology…
Are you not proud of your religion?
Why not tell everyone that your scentologist?
Well I guess you can’t cause it would ruin you even more.
Sucks to be you right now!
What is Tony and his side kick Kevin Knecht going to do?
Are they going to claim their real religion or follow the short bus?
are they going to keep preaching everymorning or throw in the towell?
By the way these two have never made any real money and Tony is getting paid a private salary under a secret Non Disclosure agreement he cannot discuss…
How do I know? Cause I know how much the last Obie jockey got paid…
So Tony is totally getting a salary and going against his religious beliefs by promoting the scientologist regime!
That is even worse!
Prentending and posing as someone who you are not!
Can’t get away from these scammers. My sister has just rung and said that there was a least one PMG exhibit at the Festival of the MindBodySpirit at Darling Harbour today. Just emailed the organizers to tell them what the NSW Department of Fair Trading thinks about this organization.
We need to make it impossible for these people who are still deluded to drag in more unfortunates.
As a former LLI/Polaris associate I have to say I am totally appaulled by the link to scientology. I dont have a problem with any religion but I have a problem with a personal development company lying to people about its real intentions to recruit people into a religion. I have only been made aware of this the past few weeks but what blows me is EMC have known all along. I look back and realise how many of us were conned and manipulated by this ‘mind f%^k’ disguised as personal development. I hope the law, associates and the media wipe the floor with leadership that allowed this to happen. Really do they think everyone is stupid and not going to realise that the words ‘polaris’ ‘northstar’ and ‘evolution’ are all scientology words. Not one EMC I asked denied the link but they did try and convince people it was no big deal. EMC and Shane should be ashamed of themselves and as a result of their actions the masses are resigning. No crisis meeting can fix this, people have had enough!
Good stuff- this is EXACTLY the type of thing that needs to happen.
Alerting the organisers of events/media they advertise in etc as to DoFT etc.
Um not sure if any other Polaris people who are actively still involved (and reading this) realise that John Lavenia’s famous words that he lives by and rants at every opportunity – “Be At Cause And Not Effect” is a core principal of SCIENTOLOGY people!!!!
Now I am not saying that is all you need to say someone is guilty of scamming us all, but it does strengthen the “link” between the two, knowing that every bloody black belt marketing call and event he had where he spoke and that I was at this was all he went on about!!!!
Can anyone confirm the rumour that Sue Smart did not win the BMW but only a 2 year lease?
OMFG that is the funniest thing I have heard yet, surely that isn’t true!!! She is selling her other car now, she has an ad on facebook for it!! too funny hahahahaha
Surely a man that is responsible for a book titled ‘Integrity is everything’ cannot possibly be a scam artist??
On another note… anyone noticed how quiet Tony Rush has gone. For someone that usually has an opinion on every topic out there on all the mlm forums, he seems to have suddenly dropped off the planet.
Can’t think what Sue would do with another BMW… maybe give it to her personal trainer, gardener or chef for christmas??
After all she does say she makes $50k a month…
If ‘Sue from sydney’ says its true, then it must be!
Oh hang on… wasn’t Sue told to ‘tone it down’ on the business overview calls ’cause she was scaring off prospects with her over the top testimonials??
As a former associate I totally agree, you should read the sh!^ that I have received from my advisor acting like a dumb ass like she didn’t know what I was on about, stupid b!tch.
I agree with everything you say and to be honest I cannot believe that Today Tonight hasn’t jumped on the band wagon with some sort of story, we all know how funny and trashy that show can be. This is right up their ally!!
Luv it, so freakin’ funny!!!!
Igf you think thats funny… Have you seen Sue n’ Jerrys (former) nowucan2 partner Carmen on the Australian Apprentice?..
She’s been getting some flak from some of the people she owes money to.. http://anthillonline.com/the-real-dirt-on-the-apprentice-australia-or-is-that-pay-dirt/
well I’m no authority on this because I wasn’t at the last conference however I do know that we had this “sizzling summer showdown” that went from May to September (I think it was) where basically the top 10 or 15 advisors (dont remember exact numbers) who sold the most Beyond Freedom Programs/Conferences won all these prizes. The “Smarties” earned/sold the most and the top prize was this hot BMW convertible. That is the basics, again I wasn’t at the conference so don’t know full details. Its piss funny though if it is true about a lease, surely not!!
Yeah I remember seeing that one to. I don’t think they would care that a story was previously done, this deception only came to light because of the change in September and EMC/CCC members not conforming and leaving and spilling the beans, so thank f$%k for them!! This story on 6 figure chicks was run prior to the changes! And in Rania’s defense she had no idea what was going on, she was one of the ones that left just recently when she found out the truth!!
Didn’t Carmen get fired from the show last week?
yeah she did, I would love to hear her story about LLI/Polaris!
Isn’t she lucky to have Sue n’ Jerry as former business partners… they can give her the loan of their old BMW while she’s looking for a job or, better still, give her a job!
http://www.superbiz.com.au/meet.html
Carmens website for anyone who’s interested
You guys care to fill us in on the BMW stuff?
Some of us don’t know the particulars :).
I believe ACA or TT can’t remember which already did a story on Liberty League covering Six Figure Chicks I think it was. Basic angle was about how great it all was that mums were being all independant and entrepenurial.
I guess they won’t be doing a followup as a. it’ll make them look bad, b. up until recently their parent networks (9) were making advertising dollars off of LLI/Polaris and c. it’d emphasise the fact that somebody didn’t do their homework first time around.
OMFG I watch that show and for past 4 weeks have been trying to work out where the hell I know her from…. that is tooo funny!!!!
Oh hang on she says shes lost everything, thats not because of all this sh!t is it?? Thats not cool at all!
I couldn’t let this one slip… from that anthill link:
WHERE DO I SIGN UP?!?
OMG are u serious? I love you Lisa you know everything and have all the dirt lol!!
Lisa how do you know all this???
Allegedly and I quote, this could be hearsay, but the differing sources have confirmed. I will paraphrase in quotes what was told to me at one of our events.
These quotes were brought out by scientology auditing and apparently Lisa apologized to the wives of these men and it was the prelude to Brent’s divorce, but because Michele was involved it did not bother her.
These are direct quotes from high ups at least 5 years ago.
The bottom line is Brent and Shane had a great vision, but they really didn’t know about real integrity based personal development.
They helped create some great leaders, but all of them have left…Why?
Now that Shane feels like he is in real spiritual God Like harmony he is promoting scientology, which was the decision of death for PMG.
Scientology was the worst thing he could have ever promoted.
“Not a big deal” the current EMC are saying…
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
You guys have lost your minds…
THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE IN EMC RIGHT NOW THAT MUST SEPARATE FROM PMG…
PMG WILL RUIN YOU!
Shane is probably now giving his internal speech to himself…
“I will prospect myself if I have to.”
GO FOR IT and start confusing the hell out of people manipulating people onto a path of debt destruction and regret.
Shane I gotta hand it to you for being one of the best manipulators ever!
Heres an article to promote PMG
Join Polaris Media Group Now!
How to loose $50k in 6 months!
http://www.PolarisMediaGroup.com
If you personally want to help save people from PMG, blog about their link to Scientology.
This is their weak point.
They cannot escape this, however you must only do it in Australia blogs, because USA blogs they have their Scientology attorneys onto it and are threatening with Lawsuits to owners of blogs, however they cannot touch OZ’s blog cause he is Australia! At least yet…
Are these people really bad or good people led astray, brainwashed the wrong way by professional manipulators…
Let’s call it what it is…
Professionals manipulated by even better professional manipulators.
John, Shannon, Shane and the other owner (the video guy) are the master blue print manipulators.
Tony, Gene, Carla, Debbie, Rachel, Lisa, Bob and whomever else are just professional loyal followers who really don’t think for themselves.
Sorry guys, but you are all riding the short bus with no windows– a driver named Shane — and a meaty disciplinarian in the front seat named Shannon.
Think about that on your next EMC trip.
Well maybe Shane and Shannon will be separate in a LIMO and you will just get short bus privileges…
Lisa
OMG Lisa that is crazy talk lol but p!ss funny!
Well I have contacted ACCC and given details and Fair Trading NSW because that is where the Polaris Media Group is registered in Australia (FYI!) just a matter of sitting back now to see what happens. Also there has been talk of Class Action, has anyone investigated this further, whats the deal so far on this???
The main key, I believe, is to inform as many people as possible about the true nature of this scheme.
After everyone knows the true motives, and member numbers get lower (as is happening now)- Polaris will be a blip on the radar, and will disappear- just as Liberty League did.
Now, as far as recovering money you have spent, perhaps the best thing to do is to seek legal advice.
If anyone comes back with details of class action, they can of course notify others and it will go from there.
What do you guys think?
I think with the class action, there’s a lot of people talking about it but nothing has been launched yet.
I imagine Polaris would fight any such action and/or just try to palm it off to the distributor/s. This is where I think launching an action against them isn’t as straight forward as taking another company to court.
For those without access to Tony “Delete” Rush’s forum, here’s my favourite at the moment, courtesy of “Steve Smith”:
The “gathering of the gullible”… I love that… sums up Polaris nicely. He should’ve also mentioned Scientology, that would get Tony’s blood boiling.
Hi All
I’m a staff member at the Church of Scientology. A bona fide religion recognized by the High Court of Australia. I find the above insults to be vilification of my religious beliefs. That is now a criminal act. Akin to racist abuse. We have nothing to hide, whether it’s WISE or Narconon or Criminon, or any community betterment program. We believe in making a world without insanity, crime and war.
I’ve got no affiliation to Polaris, but shouldn’t all you cynics read for yourselves the material in question before you form a judgement.
I want to help others do better in life. Do you?
Regards
Todd
@LL and now Polaris winner
Blah blah indeed. Who are you talking to/about? Most of my ventures have been *winners*, but I smelled a rat withing 60 seconds of encountering LLI, and your expression of blind optimism is a good example of why.
I’ll give you a protip for free, the good bits of a business drive you, it’s the bad bits that you have to concentrate on fixing.
It seems that no one associated with these companies wants to face up to simple realities. “Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead” only works in the movies. In real life such macho optimalism is a good way to get blown up.
@iwonder
is right that it is important to keep up a warning flag for potential new victims, but there is also the matter of those already victimised by this scam.
It’s not rocket surgery. Class-action? First there are some prliminaries;
1) Get organised. Who is going to put their hand up to co-ordinate communication between victims? Develop an e-group. Something like a closed by-invitation page where you can freely discuss your options.
2) Get advice. That e-group can then seek real expert advice from someone who actually knows what they are talking about (and some firms like Slater & Gordon will take on class actions pro bono or no-win-no-fee). Is your case a winner, even money, or a no-hoper?
3) Then the group decides if it is willing and able to act on whatever that advice is.
Do it.
???
What are these people on?
Seriously.
Yes- hence this thread and topic, which has saved the sanity and bank balance of many.
Unfortunately Todd, there will always be people who disagree with your beliefs. Of my beliefs. Of Joe Bloggs down the road’s beliefs.
Scientology (as I am sure you know) does attract alot of criticism. Google it. See what you come up with. Then email all of them or post on their blogs if you are so inclined.
The basis here is a group (PMG) which you admit you are not involved with personally, and their deception. I have restrained myself quite a bit in regard to my views about Scientology and I am sure others have done the same.
Never thought I would be hearing and reading all this stuff a year ago after I signed and fell into place. Mind control is a very interesting thing. Some good ideas (Beyond Freedom, Principals of Religion) can really be manipulated. The “leaders” take control and all the followers just get in line. I fell for it but was a good lesson Been checking in on some of the team calls that are still up and there seems to be so much confusion in the “leadership”. Wonder if Scientology will get their attorneys on this. Would be interesting since they are so secretive. Hope more people will really look at the game plan before they start to play. Wish this site was available before I got involved. It was a fair idea to me back in early 2008, but I did not question enough. I can see somehow with the backing of Scientology that PMG will possibly thrive and get more recruits, but they should be told what they are getting into. Wondering how long the connection with Scientology has been in place.
Sooooo you want people to respect your beliefs by claiming their beliefs are a criminal act.
Rightio, let us know how that works out for you. The UN already tried this blasphemy bullshit and failed.
$cientology may have nothing to hide but finding out can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. The front organisations run by $cientology are there to drag the vulnerable into the morass. http://www.xenu.net/archive/scientology_illustrated/intro13.htm This will outline their crazy beliefs and doesn’t cost a cent.
Oops, “preliminaries”
@Todd Omond
“A bona fide religion”? My posterior. It’s one thing to conjecture that we might have alien origins, quite another to claim to have their phone number, then try to sell it digit-by-digit. In private Hubbard must have laughed until he choked.
Inference: the Catholic Church shouldn’t be held accountable for institutionalised child abuse because they are a religion???
I also demand respect for my rights as a Heretic without portfolio to rip into anyone with an invisible friend and a magic book. Bugger Alien-Lib; they don’t vote or pay taxes, so stuff ’em. As non-smokers want a world free of smoke, so atheists want a world free of mirrors.
Next thing will be Scientologists demanding that special cubicles be added to all public toilets with an “X” on the door so the aliens won’t be discriminated against when they want to take a leak (or whatever it is that aliens must do in private).
{Oh yeah, almost forgot; I’m taking advance orders for my SteamPunk re-creation of a Mk-III electrometer, normally $2200 plus shipping, this advance offer on a limited series signed by the builder is being discounted by 10% to a flat $2000 including shipping – for a limited time only! Get in now and secure your unit – never to be repeated offer.}
LOST MONEY IN LLI? THEN LISTEN UP!
One thing you all have in common is a self-image of a get-up-and-go can-do’er.
Well where the hell is your get-up and can-do NOW?
A handful going to the ACCC or Fair Trading individually is ignorable. The same people beating the shubbery as a co-ordinated action will have a much greater effect. Pull it all together in one place you’ve got a multi-million dollar fraud.
The whole fraud is cynically constructed to exploit your “rape shame” to the fullest. It’s entirely your fault you walked down that street, and if you didn’t fight hard enough, you deserve what you got.
@Rod and @iwonder at least have some moxie. How ’bout it guys? Who’s going to give some practical expression to all that “awsome” Personal Development? Who’s going to take the bit between their teeth?
@Roly
Wheels are in motion Roly.
Let the games begin.
I have a career, have done for 15yrs,told you that before.Got a job,own a home,put my kids through uni, Get a life!
Edward- great, fantastic, wonderful, excellent etc etc.
Are you done now?
Back to the matter at hand- more people have left. It seems people that have signed up are now also actively warning others that seek them out on old advertisements etc. Love it!
Keep up the great work guys.
In reference to this ridiculous comment also:
To compare having an opinion about Scientology to racial abuse is mind boggling.
You CHOSE to be a Scientologist.
You CHOSE to represent an extremely controversial organisation that has alot of bad press worldwide.
You CHOSE to represent an organisation that charges ridiculous amounts of money for their “courses”.
You CHOSE to represent an organisation that claims we are all from a planet near the North Star (Polaris).
You CHOSE to represent an organisation that has recently come under fire here in Australia due to the death of a soldier.
People do not choose to be a certain race. Get real “Todd”.
You tell’ em iwonder!
Im sure you’re related to my missus.
aaaaaahahaha….
I choose my battles Martin 😉
Hi all
I have been contacting new Polaris members on facebook and suggesting they do some research before committing any more money. I have had a few responses so far and have been forwarding this sights link. Been careful not to incriminate myself though. Don’t want there lawyers on my case! Also thanks again OZ.
Nice work Greg, you might also want to mention that the Aus BOC’s in the evening are all staged and made to look like there is heaps of associates on the call, when there isn’t!!
No associates were getting on the Business Overview Calls to give testimonials because everyone was leaving Polaris!! So they started a Skype Group to try to ensure they had testimonials to give at each Aus BOC.
Problem was though that this was happening only in the evening which is why the Aus BOC’s were dead during the day because no one was in the Skype room trying to create the “wall of sound”. The advisor doing the call kept putting it down to “technical issues” and people couldn’t “ummute” to give their testimonials, that was BS, there was no one calling in to give them!!
I was part of this group, so I know first hand what was going on. People would get in the group on Skype and they would create a list of who was giving testimonials so the advisor taking the call knew who to call out, so if you weren’t in the Skype group chances of being called out to give your testimonial were slim to none. They were also trying to create that “wall of sound” like there was heaps of associates on the line waiting to give testimonials, when really there was about 10 people total and majority of those are only new to the business!!
Same with the Black Belt Marketing call of John Lavenia’s, when he “opens the lines” for everyone to scream and get all excited at the beginning of the call and pump up his ego some more…… there was a total of 10 people and he acknowledges that and says its a technical issue people are on delayed phone lines or cant unmute…. total BS its because no one wants to listen to his dribble anymore!!
LOVE IT!
@iwonder
Good to hear.
Keep your powder dry, but keep us informed when you can, eh?
Want to make a big impact?
Google has to pick this up front page, when you type in Polaris Media Group.
Here is how you do it…
Use facebook, libertyleaguelife.ning.com, squidoo, myspace, twitter, and find any blog out there and paste this…
Polaris Media Group Is Now Publicly Linked To Scientology.
Shane Krider & Shannon Lavenia Are Actively Promoting All Memmbers To Join Church Of Scientology.
See For Yourself First Hand:
https://behindmlm.com/companies/polaris-media-group/polaris-media-group-publicly-linked-to-scientology/
These sites are fronts for scientology and polaris media group.
ShannonLavenia.com
In the interests of credibility I’d rather people weren’t spamming BehindMLM all around the internet.
I’m sure nearly everyone involved in Polaris is aware of the site already and for anyone doing their own research finding the information here is (hopefully) easy enough.
Google has a way of ranking relevant information and seems to think the info here is alright, we don’t need to go resort to Polaris spam-bomb tacticts to get the info out there.
I do appreciate the thought though thankyou.
Although I am not a member of PMG or scientology I must say that I hate blogs like this. Not so much because of the infomration but the comments.
This is a meeting of the weak trying to be heroes. Everyone is now a guru on why this or that wont work or why this book or that idea is off the mark.
The questions is how much have you accomplished in your life? What impact have you made?
These blogs are filled with the words of low level thinking people “run far away” and “I was scammed” is typical and can be found on every single blog of the sort.
Why would you all spend so much time following PMG? Do you not have your own lives to run?
In addition all of you who “lost money” and want to blame someone else for your greed should take some responsibility for yourself. You joined the thing hoping to get others to pay you and blow there money too. Truth is you are just too weak to do it. But if you did make money we would not see you on this blog, would we?
Who cares if PMG is linked to scientology. Scientology is along the same lines as many books and teachings that have become so popular lately. Metaphysics, psycho cybernetics, ect. It is all based in personal development which you all are oviously not doing.
Blogs like these are the flocking together of low level, low consiousnous people who never take responsibility for themselves, never work hard to get what they want, and are constantly blaming others for their lives.
You buy the magic pills instead of going to the gym and eating properly. You buy into every money making scheme thinking you are going to earn real money working 1 hour a day. You buy all the gimmicks on tv infomrercials.
The very best thing you can do for yourself is not associate yourself with this level of people. You must increase your level.
Why do you think that every company on earth has a inner circle of executives that do not share secret info with you? Because you are not on that level.
Leave people alone to do what ever they will do. What PMG or the scientologists are doing is no more harmful than being an unproductive low level meember of society.
There is no right or wrong good or bad. Leave them alone.
For once focus on your life and go accomplish soemthing for God sake.
Kids in America running through schools with a gun killing random people has become popular too. So what?
Well I’m sure we agree there. PMG is the magic pill and gimmick that promises the world but delivers crap.
Welcome to the real world Philip.
Truth is, if you dont like blogs like this you just need to ‘change the channel’.
‘Lonely’ Rush likes to use the ‘magic pills’ comment too. Actually the whole of your post could have come from Mr. Rush. Actually… Are you Mr. Rush??
Hey Oz
Understand, didnt think of it that way. Will not post the link next time.Got some positive responses though.
No worries Greg glad you got some response.
People getting information out there of their own accord is ok but when we start encouraging others to spam Facebook et al. just for the sake of it we lower ourselves to their level (remember the Polaris launch and call to spam their site everywhere from leaders?)
A while back I had someone sign up to a whole bunch of Polaris sites and use my OSB email, needless to say some associates thought it was me and I had to fire off a bunch of ‘sorry someone’s playing funny buggers’ emails when the associates queried it.
As much as I disagree with the business model behind Polaris I’m not about to start hounding their associates.
found this on Facebook , a newbie asking questions
” hi ya wot do u all do, i mean how do you work, do u have to openly sell products, does it cost me lots to do it? how much do i have to speculate to accumulate, ive had my phone calls and ect but im still not understanding what id have to do please help me out.
“you need to do is to share the opportunity and get them to listen the business overview call. the system does all the explaining.”
9 hours ago ·
give them $25,000 – its so easy and yes they will take it from you – oh and then there ismarketing – that cost me $10,000 in the last 12 months – and of course they love you because the only ones that will make any money will be the EMC – this is a very elaberate scam – there are class actions against them globally
be warned
5 hours ago · you can’t say anything good xxxxx just shut up. you’re not doing any good in this community. just mind your own business
4 hours ago · it is not working for you xxxx you’re doing it all wrong…
3 hours ago · xxxxxx experienced in this and want to ehlp newbies. I am doing nothing wrong at all – I have a free mind – that is a clue
3 hours ago · xxxxxxx you haven’t establish any credibility in this community.
3 hours ago · xxxxxx and what credibility do you have, with respect?
I have been following this conversation to. There is also another lengthy conversation on that wall and this morning the same person who asked “3 hours ago · xxxxxx and what credibility do you have, with respect?” asked if this was scientology and quickly had their question removed. IF they have nothing to hide they shouldn’t be deleting these questions!
hahahahaha…I thought the same thing!
Hey Philip
If I help one person see the light before they are scammed by this fraudulent company, I will be satisfied. I learn from my mistakes and hopefully I can pass on a little wisdom to others.
Thanks to Oz I get that chance.
Yeah Greg I know what you mean, not only that I see that you have either been kicked off the FB page or your comments have all been deleted! Again, if they had nothing to hide they wouldnt be deleting these comments!
Hey Phillip – do you know Tony Rush?
I have been removed also – what a pack of control freaks and reading through the PMG page in BF it is very disturbing to see all the posts from thos poor ppl being sucked
Roger
i think you can still post on Facebook , problems is they will probably delete the so called negative stuff, what the heck , just post anyways , someone will still get to read it, even if it still gets taken down
If the Scientology conspiracy theory you’re spouting is not true, then what you are writing is libel, which there are laws against. So yeah, the libeled party would want to delete that for ya. If it is true, it really needs to be proven by legal, professional investigation and brought to light publicly, which will be more powerful than vigilante expose justice in the form of defamation anyway. You could try “Facebooking” some legal representatives and get them on the case for you instead of posting where your target will only squelch your slander. If you really want to “save” people, why not be bold about it and make an actual, legitimate effort, not just cop out with cheap shots on PMG’s FB. . . “Accomplish something” like Phillip, the talking head for Mr. Rush suggested. Put your actions behind your mouth and see if you’re actually onto something that can be proven in a court of law, then all this blogging actually comes to some good and isn’t all talk. Just a thought . . . who will do it?
As a recently resigned associate I find all of this information both extremely interesting and disturbing.
Interesting because the Polaris community supposedly promotes strong lines of communication, honesty and integrity. Disturbing because, as evidenced by myself and others here, they also discourage communication (don’t network with people outside your direct team line)or just do not provide it.
I personally decided to leave because I could not make the business model work. I personally could not care less whether they are Scientologists, Methodists or Episcopalians. What concerns me is that they have certainly lied to us all.
On a recent Team Down-Under wake up call the question of preferences for religious beliefs was raised and laughed off. An Aussie EMC member in Arizona affirmed online that he was not in the USA for indoctrination, merely assisting with marketing ideas and I for one was prepared to believe him. In fact I really don’t care whether he is or isn’t being “converted” – that ultimately is his own personal choice and good luck to him.
What I object to is the deception and coercion employed throughout the company. I have asked for a refund of my original investment – A$26K – and been told that there are no refunds unless cancellations are/were made within specific timelines. I’m in the process of trying to find out from PMG what these timelines were / are.
I have neither booked nor attended any events and therefore believe that I am entitled to some if not all of my original investment. I am currently seeking legal advice and it is my intention to pursue the matter through the courts. If there is an existing class action I would be interested to have reference to it (or join with it if that offers me and the other claimants an advantage). I have listed my full name and my contact details are available via this site if requested.
Is this sour grapes? I don’t think so. If I had invested money in a profitable venture elsewhere but had decided to recover my investment it would be no different. I think a previous comment that the “shame factor” plays a large part in keeping such organisations out of the spotlight is very true. I for one am prepared to stand up and be counted. I stuffed up, fair call. Doesn’t mean I have to continue to be rooted.
If you’re posting to the Polaris Media Group ‘group’ on Facebook then yes they will have an admin team for the group removing your posts. This is similar to how the Polaris Ning group runs with Tony Rush as a moderator, same sort of deal.
Facebook itself isn’t stopping you from posting or banning you, the Polaris admins of the group are.
Coco – if it were not true do you not think they would
a) say so
b) leave the comments there as proof of libel?
Well I didn’t doctor the Lavenia facebook screen shot nor tell John to promote Scientology books. Given the association between Polaris and Scientology was publicly viewable it’s not like I had to go out of my way to write about it.
Additionally for it to be libel one part of the scientology equation has to be the ‘negative association’. So which is it, does Scientology make Polaris look bad or does Polaris make Scientology look bad?
Oh the conundrum!
@Philip
Same old script yet again from someone who isn’t associated {blahblahblah]. Stunningly arrogant assumptions, and ending with pure nonsense;
You mean that the next time you step into a lift or aircraft you don’t care if the designer, mechanic, or pilot are good or bad?
Apart from being a volunteer most of my life, including bushfire fighting, my critical view of the LLI/PMG pyramid model is grounded in considerable achievements for many satisfied clients in professional relationships that lasted years.
It is exactly this sort of Kool-Aid spray from the faithful that confirms my view of rampant arrogant New-Age cluelessness.
@Coco
This claim interests me. Please explain how associating the Church of Scientology with Liberty League International or Polaris Media Group *defames* the latter?
–
Spotted some “Executive Salary” bandit signs over Caroline Springs (Melb) way yesterday.
@Peter Diprose
Good post.
Exactly. The people at the top are scientologists. If you put two and two together, you will realise that to get to the top of the pyramid (if that’s even possible), you will need to be a scientologist, hence the secrecy. If (most) people knew they’d have to “practice” scientology to be one of the Polaris Media Group leaders, they wouldn’t join at all.
Yes, ans Shannon Lavenia is one of them.
She showed people at “Super Saturday” (read Super ripoff) as she logged into the group via projector.
Also- if this organisation is so great- why are there only 2000 fans in the ENTIRE WORLD?? And why do they all seem to be BRAND NEW??
What amuses me is they leave commets like this (which had a link to a web article at the top)- completely ignoring the questions about Scientology and repeating the same vague crap about what you actually DO:
Stella Morganso: what is the strategy that members of this group use?
Anne Moore: Polaris “has the tools to finance your passions” and the strategy is to provide individuals who have the desire to create a better life for themselves with the education to actually “create their own future”
Stella Morganso: so uts like life coaching, not scientology?
Karen Phillips: i like this article – work smart!
What is even funnier… did you notice the Polaris Media Group that you have to “Request To Join” and can’t just automatically add yourself has only 882 members!!! What does that say! I think this one that has just over 2000 has a lot of people still in it who are no longer a part of Polaris but want to keep up with the dirt like we do!!
Absolutely. The one with 2000 (which is still a VERY low number for something so apparently fantastic and revolutionary) has quite a few people on there just to check out what is happening and warn others who are brand new and caught in the headlights.
They are everywhere people…. just had the TV on in the background while hear working and heard one of the contestants on Ready Steady Cook spruking about her home based in personal development based on The Secret and Law Of Attraction….. they are everywhere!! Hoping they don’t let her talk anymore about it or announce her business name!!
So i’m asking some questions about Polaris on Facebbok eg , how much have you made etc etc …all deleted …what a joke , talk about nothing to hide , so you guys who have lost your money have you gone to A Current Affair , etc etc to complain
ok so im going to ask a really “dumb” question but how do you go to A Current Affair or Today Tonight to complain about these things or tell them that you have a scam/story for them??
the things you wish for…… my husband has just told me he has the email address for the Producer of Today Tonight because they use it for their stories. So anyone on here who is interested in being part of the story or has information they would love to share you can contact me!!
@Cripes
LOL. I hope they didn’t ask her too many questions, she’d might have had to tell them to get on a call :).
These guys can be contacted via their respective websites. Just punch in either name into Google and look for a ‘contact us’ section.
Good luck! A few have tried to get ACA/TT to look at it but seem to have been knocked back. Main reason from what I can gather was TT did a positive story on LLI a while ago and Ch9 is (was?) receiving advertising dollars via television ads (UXL etc).
@Douglas
I’m guessing Polaris run their Facebook site the same as they do their intrapersonal marketing. Answer nothing and get people onto calls so you can wow them with excitement hype and possibly get them to commit on the spot.
Senator Nick Xenophon says Scientology is ‘a criminal organisation’
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26365915-421,00.html
@Cripes!!
You may get more traction with The Age investigation or Insight team, whatever they call it now. Surf their site, e-mail people about it, follow up with phonecalls.
This comment has now disappeared from the page.
Wow, you know what people. This board is just a feeding ground for people who like to dwell on the negative in life and blame all their circumstances on something external. Scientology or not… who cares? The principles of the product work and if those principles help people then that’s good. Some pay for a university education, get qualified then never use their qualification… some even borrow money to do it. This is no different. you are buying a product, an education in personal development. Where you buy it from or who is of little consequence.
All of you on this board should be directing your energies into just having a great day, and making the most of today. Negative energy is just not worth it.
Have an awesome day everyone!
Hey Wendy
The principles of the Beyond Freedom product work, as many people on this blog have attested to. The point you seem to have not grasped is that it is morally and ethically wrong to promote personal development products based on Scientology principles without being up front about it and giving people the opportunity to KNOW FOR YOURSELF before choosing to invest. Those that pay for a university education know exactly what they are paying for. Those that pay for products from Polaris do not.
and you have a great day too!
No, it is a great form of FREE speech- a concept you at PMG seem to have forgotten. It is also a great way to warn people against being ripped off by people such as yourself.
Er…..quite alot of people it seems. Not just within PMG…
Really? Well please see my post introducing my new “religion” The Intergalactic Bullshit Group. I will let you join….only if you give me 20k and promise to “think” your profits into actuality. If they do not eventuate, you only have yourself to blame. Oh- and you will need to sign a confidentiality clause as well.
Please explain- I am all ears 🙂
The following comment is currently on PMG facebook… no doubt will be deleted shortly:
“This Business (if you can call it that) is a scam.Tonnes of empty promises, nothing delivered! They just take your money and run. EMC are jumping ship to other home business’ left right and centre and new associates leaving in droves. I know personally of 60 people who have left in the last week or so.I was at the Puer…to Rico conference in October and it is just a very expensive sham!! The scientology link is another thing all together. But you should check out google on that subject and read for yourself.Look elsewhere for other business’ with some integrity!! They are removing any negative comments ASAP- but hope someone gets to see this and is saved from financial disaster!!”
@Wendy.. if the product and the company are soo good why are there so many people disgruntled? Why are there so many of the EMC bailing out? Why do they delete rather than address questions posted to their social media sites?
You have a really super super awesome day too!
HaHaHa i’m loving looking at the FB page…
Me too! I’ll give it another hour…
someones letting lose on Face book , someone has admitted to following Scientology
yeah, i see what you mean. Could be a fake profile tho…?
Missed that one – but look at this:
The cracks are appearing….
Hi all,
Just received an e-mail from Elena Fraga. She has confirmed that she has left PMG. Sorry OZ had to double check for myself.
I know for a fact (having spoken to former EMC members) that Shane Krider, the Lavinias, the Molinas, Rachel Oliver, Delwyn McKenzie & others are openly Scientologists.
Polaris is a Scientology company, fact.
They don’t provide any real training or mentoring & once you have spent the big bucks they aren’t interested.
LLI was pretty good, Beyond Freedom was great… but Polaris is a sham.
And I know for a fact the reason Brent Payne left when he did, are for the same reasons the Hamburgers and Swans did, didn’t want to follow Shane’s path towards scientology!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
Wow! This was quite a thread! lol As an ex-scientologist I would just like to thank you all from the bottom of my heart for exposing this company.
I noticed the scilons (:)) were doing what they always do…attacking and trying to demean anyone who didn’t agree with them. So typical.
Let me just say a couple of things. Scientology is not in ANY way a religion. L.Ron Hubbard discovered that he could get tax exemption and avoid FDA regulations by using religion as a cloak. I was there when the big push was on to get the IRS to give them tax exemption. It’s all a lie.
Scientologists are infamous for starting AND joining MLM’s. I saw at least 30 of them come and go while I was a scilon. I even got taken by a couple. Scilon’s don’t mind scamming other scilons at all.
One of the scilons on here was bawwwing about those who were scammed taking responsibility for being conned. They want everyone else to take resposibility but just try and get one of them to do the same! All hell breaks loose. The same with their “church”. Anything that goes wrong is the member’s fault, never scientology’s. If a member complains or speaks out about something it’s just because they themselves have crimes according to the “church.” It could NEVER be the “church’s” fault!
As weird as you think scientology is right now…you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Great post Kirk 🙂
Can you shed some more light on these other companies/ MLM’s?
Well, I got involved with a coupon thing, they do tons of vitamin MLM’s, Amway type things…you name it. I’m an old fogey and can’t remember all of them though.
They need a lot of money to get up their little “bridge” so anything that looks quick is what they really love. Get in, get out, leave the poor schmucks with a room full of fire detectors.
And they call themselves the most ethical people on the planet!
It’s me again. Don’t know if anyone else got the email, but Shane Krider has emailed all associates last night and admitted he is a scientologist. So it’s finally out.
………Just one more thing……Does that mean this thread is now dead??
Ok just realised your on to it in a new thread OZ.
And what of it? His email only served to point out how petty all this crap is. What gives anyone the right to sit in judgement over someone else about what they believe in. All you people on this soapbox that are so worried about this scientology stuff should just get a life. Colombo also failed to mention that Shanes email stated that the business was “a business”. Not scientology, but a full fledged business. Anyone of any rank, religion, sex, colour, sexual orientation whatever is permitted in the business. Personal beliefs are not a criteria. So time to get off your soap boxes folks. It’s all old news now.
Yes, and I am Santa Claus.
Ha- Are you serious? Really?
It’s only just beginning 🙂
Ps: I feel for you if you STILL haven’t woken up to Krider and the EMC (are you one of them btw?) ‘s motives. I am not quite sure what it would take to wake you up.
@ Pat – at least everyone now has the opportunity to KNOW FOR THEMSELVES whether or not they wish to be involved in a business run by Scientologists, an exercise some PERSONAL SOVEREIGNITY.
You have got to be kidding!
Do you seriously expect people to believe that anyone who signed up as a distributor for PolarisMediaGroup, fully believing that they were buying into a business based on the teachings of The Secret, are now just going to carry on as if nothing has happened??
Do you seriously believe that distributors are going to keep promoting the products knowing now that most of the proceeds will be channeled into Scientology?
Next you’ll be expecting us all to believe that mankind’s origins involve an alien overlord named Xenu…. think about it… this is what your CEO believes in!!
Krider is insane!! You’re all INSANE!!
The simple fact is that both $cientology and Polaris are methods of parting as many people as possible from as much money as possible. In the process many of the victims are traumatised and scarred for life. Would you Pat, like to find out that your son or daughter had gone seriously into debt to finance their involvement with a so called religious technology, as the McBrides unfortunately had to discover following the suicide of their beloved son and brother. I certainly have a right and even a moral obligation to warn others about these scams. Maybe even a friend or relation of Pat’s will find enough information on these pages to avoid being ripped off as so many others already have been.
Well said, Boris!
@Pat
Who’s personal beliefs do you think are behind the Polaris products…?
They didn’t just write themselves.
And I am a Catholic and I own a personal development business also. We all know Catholics have had their fair share of media spotlight too over the years, so come on people. At the end of the day everyone has a choice as to where they draw the line. One can run a business and not go down the religious road. Crikey, we have a cereal company called Hubbards that is Jehovah Witness. People still buy their cereal. I think it’s time people took responsibility for their OWN actions. It’s common knowledge that most human beings like to blame someone else if things don’t work out for them. At the end of the day though, we all make choices. If you chose to join a business and it didn’t work out for you, then that is a consequence of YOUR choice. A lesson learnt etc It has nothing to do with the religious origins of the founders at all. So grow up and take responsibility.
Shane Krider is admitting he is a scientologist and he owns a personal development business in network marketing.
Enough Said
Hey Norman who are you referring to??
You make a very good point Norman. Yes indeed, if they WERE using the business as a front for scientology as the blogger assumes, then they would indeed have been in scientology first.
Has anyone noticed that all the lies being published on here is from the same person,His name is “Billy Lier”Norman
Did any of you see Lisa’s posting (might be in a different thread), Shane has been involved in scientology for a while, before PMG was made public knowledge. Shane claims that he has been working on PMG for 18 months, that is total BS. He may have been thinking about it for that long and trying to push Brent out for that long because he couldn’t do anything without Brent leaving.
Firstly if he had of been all these teething problems and products would be finalised including his systems and secondly I know for a FACT from people “close” to the source that this is why Brent left, he is just flat out not into scientology. That is why this is all happening so quickly and with so many problems, he could only make the change when Brent was pushed out in May 2009.
Also my advisor, part of the EMC, said at SS that Shane was happy now because he could take the business down a path that was in line with his beliefs and ideals. Little did we know those beliefs were scientology!
You can try and dress this up or down anyway you like but at the end of the day it was deceitful and wrong and I can tell you now the mass exodus is speaking for itself. Peoples feet are telling the story on how they feel!!
How many of you can actually say you know or are friends with scientologists but aren’t one yourselves?? Wont be many because they only associate with other scientologists and there is a reason for that!!
Also did you stop to wonder why Incomes Unlimited was shut down and not UWS??
A couple of other points about the guy blogging on here what is your name, maybe i missed it, Anyway your full of inuendo, Norman.
AHA! Got you on that last one “Cripes” I have very dear friends who are scientologists and who have been my friends for 10 yrs now. They’ve never pushed their beliefs on me ever. The live in las vegas. So you don’t know much at all do you about how they really work at all. It’s because of my friends that I know, Polaris as a business is no threat to me or anyone else. I think the question you need to be asking yourself is “why am I so scared of these guys”
Personally I think, that you are just plain scared of anything you don’t know enough about. You prefer to believe media hype over the years. It’s no different to the media telling us about a murder around the corner from where you live – would that then mean you have to sell up house and move straight away, or that the resale value of your property is going to drop never to come up again. You people are just drivel and that’s why you hide behind a non-de-plum. Grow up!
The Guy Who says he blogged this information is a big Lier”. Listen Lier, This is why Liberty League was not involved with Sciencetology.
originaly Brent Payne Shane Krider had nothing to do with Scienctology, Only recently has Shane Krider has become involved with Scienctology,
You need to clean up your Knowlege,and stop using Inuendo for your unbelievable BS, I wonder if you are with Life Path??????? the company that copied Liberty League????
in the past, To imply that Brent Payne was in Scienctolgy is more of your inuendo BS, Norman.
AHA – you havent got me on anything, if you read my post properly I said “Wont be many because they only associate with other scientologists and there is a reason for that!!” note: Won’t be many, not none at all!!!! So just because YOU have one or two friends that are Sciti’s doesn’t disprove anything I said!!!!
Um I am not scared of these guys at all, disgusted but not scared!! I don’t read the media or watch tv news or anything like that and certainly don’t get caught up in the hype of anything! I have a brain in my head and can certainly make my own decisions to know for myself!!
Did you stop to think that maybe there are some of us that hide behind these names because of legal proceedings are in motion, moron!! Once this is done and dusted will be glad to come out with my real name!
@Oz… I believe it is safe to assume that Krider in Scientology prior to 09/09/09, the official launch date of the new PMG. We in the US were notified of the new company August 31 at the event in LA. Not sure how long this transition had been in the works prior to announcement, but the new company/products had to be developed.
As for the Beyond Freedom program, they are still selling the Beyond Freedom Classic, which was authored by Brent and Shane, until December 31st. Anyone who purchases the new Beyond Freedom Evolution Package (Departure, Decision, Action) is being shipped the OLD Beyond Freedom Classic until the new products are released in January, so they get a DEAL!
I don’t believe the BF Classic was produced under the helm of Scientology, but I could be absolutely wrong. However, the new BF Evolution most certainly is.
from what I understand the split began in Jan 08 when Brent was forced out . A little while later some of the big hitters started to leave. It was definately preplanned – a plan by Krider, Lavenia’s and Braxton. They are all Sciti’s.
Remember that Brent was not at Acapulco. I also dont think Beyond Freedom was written with a Sciti bent – but this next thing – writen by Krider/Lavenia – how could it not be.
(removed at the request of the author).
youre onto it OZ
Yes, and doesn’t that just drive you crazy.
If you cannot understand why this is done, I won’t get into an argument with you about it. No use.
(Oh, and by the way, the correct term is “nom de plume” LOL)
It was my understanding that Brent left this year around May. Something was said at the event in LA that this whole thing (company, Know for Yourself) was implemented in about a 4 week time-frame. Not sure if my memory is correct, but don’t know if I can find anyone to confirm that for me. They didn’t even have a written version of the comp plan prepared. They did a video presentation of the comp plan which was recorded directly at the event and only recently put it in writing and published it in .pdf format in the back office. No wonder we were all confused about it for so long. I think this whole changeover was done more hastily than people realize (it may have been in Shane’s mind much longer, though).
apolopgies OZ – I gave you the wrong yr – that should have reda Jan09
Spot on and then it was go time when BP was officially gone in May this year.
in my mind I see the change in the comp plan – a change in strategy to channel even more money into the “leaders” pockets. It was differcult previsouly to make money with the way it was – now with having to activate to make the higher 40% (lower than previous 60%) will result in even higher failure rates for the newbies – and where does the 40% balance go? I asked Gene Barxton on The GC – it goes into the other “funds” to be handed out to the “leaders”.
Its a blatant rip off.
You new guys reading this – how are you going to get poeple to talk to ? internet? – believe me that is a science! paper advertising? – forget it. You can get all hyped up about the ” Money” – from the EMC and the rest – but in real terms – it will be 200% harder than it was before, then anyone doing any research will find this blogg – being number one in the gooogle serach for PMG and they will be gone . -> the “leaders” will end up with your money – telling you that you “didnt take personal responsibility” or you were not “at cause” .
Get your focus off the BS figures thrown around by Ms Olliver and the like because those of us that are experienced – know that she is telling porkies – in a vain attempt to look after her own pocket.
Details regarding the original “Beyond Freedom” are as such (I’m looking at my copy):
Executive Producer: Brent Payne
Produced and Directed by: Edward Asiano
Written by: Edward Asiano, Shane Krider and Brent Payne
Copyright 2004
I have it on good authority that Shane Krider did not become involved with the Church of Scientology until Fall 2007 at which time he moved his family from Fountain Hills, Arizona to LA. John and Shannon Lavenia left their home in Tucson and followed him almost immediately. Gene Braxton initially declined to become involved with Scientology after learning of the initial $40,000 price tag but apparently changed his mind at some point in time. Bob and Lisa Molina also jumped in sometime during this early rush to the Church of Scientology.
Scientology recruiters were placed in a suite at the January 2008 Super Saturday event and met with many EMC members and top “leaders” at that point in time. I was there. This was when the first rumors of a Scientology influence began circulating and initially it appears most were not terribly alarmed because the Scientology involvement seemed to be fairly limited in scope and influence.
However, with the abrupt departure of Brent Payne, the complete rewrite of the Beyond Freedom program by Shane Krider and/or John Lavenia AFTER their joining the Church of Scientology, the formation/evolution of the new company, and the now public admission and promotion of Polaris Media Group’s fonder’s involvement with the Church of Scientology I find it AMAZING that anyone could continue to entertain the notion that Polaris Media Group’s products, training, support and community are not fundamentally based on the teachings of the Church of Scientology and that ANY involvement with Polaris Media Group is a WILLFUL and now FULLY INFORMED choice to support the Church of Scientology.
To anyone considering joining Polaris Media Group this is the ONLY question you should ask yourself before you make your decision: Am I willing to travel down a road that will inevitably lead me to the Church of Scientology?
If your answer is “yes”, then you should join and “fully position” yourself from Day 1 by purchasing every product and every conference ticket immediately. That’s the ONLY way you stand a chance to make any money at all. Keep in mind, you run the risk that Polaris Media Group cannot withstand the scrutiny created by making their association with the Church of Scientology public and shutters their doors before the conferences are ever held. If you are willing to risk losing that money before you make it back, however, you should definitely join “full boat” today.
If, however, you decide that a Scientology-based business is NOT the right fit for you, then you should shut the book on Polaris Media Group immediately and continue your search for whatever it is you’re looking for.
Here’s what I would say to anyone still in Polaris Media Group who’s scared to death to leave because you’re either afraid of the inevitable repercussions of leaving (NOBODY leaves and remains friends with those left behind)or you’re so far in financially that you can’t help but hang on to the hope that this is the week you’re going to “get it” and begin to make the money “you deserve”: there is wonderful clarity and perspective once you’re out and you WILL take away valuable lessons and experiences that will help you as you escape. Your best days are ahead.
@RT
Wow. Thanks for the clarification. I had no idea it went back to 2007, although I do remember the Lavenias moving to LA sometime ago. I knew nothing about the Scientology association until this forum. If you were there, then that’s undisputable. I assume you were invited/allowed there for possible recruitment as well?
Very well said RT. My sentiments exactly.
@Pat
Did Krider join Scientology before or after 09/09/09?
Beyond Freedom was/is in the process of being re-written as far as I know. The thus released components are new and the ones that haven’t been are presumably still being authored.
Therefore all of Polaris’ exisisting literature was produced under the helm of Scientology. Correct me if I’m wrong though.
Hhmmm………so many lies. It’s getting difficult to keep up. Darned if I could get this Oz up as #1 in the search engines. You need to check your facts first before going public. This blog came up no. 8. pretty low ranking really. Only someone actually looking for it would find it. I typed in pmg as you stated and it didn’t come up at all, same for PMG. Then it only came up 8th when I put in the full name. This may all seem petty but you are all being petty too.
Well sorry to tell you this Pat Lever (BTW if that ever your real name???) it comes up as number 3 for me. Given that google now produce results based on your IP address and locality from that, I’d say that people are going to get differing results depending on where they are. Not to mention that there are also another gazillion blogs and article pages that link to Oz referring to our discussions. I see PMG in my area still isn’t number one, Whirlpool is!! This isn’t the only place or forum that people are discussing PMG.
Also you mention so many lies…. please explain. As you will note when calling people out on their lies here we also back that up with why we are stating so…. so please enlighten us on your knowledge on why there are so many lies here???
@RT – wow and I see you are based in the US so can only assume that you were part of the CCC wanting to become part of the EMC until you found out about all this connection to Scientology?? Whatever the connection, thanks for sharing!!
It’s ok Pat Lever, we understand you’re holding on for dear life.
Krider’s Scientology confession was the iceberg, and now the PMG ship is sinking.
But fear not, Pat Lever…our hearts will go on.
Pat… mate…. problem with spouting this kinda stuff id that PEOPLE WILL CHECK FOR THEMSELVES.
It comes up (as of today) 6th for me, 3 for Cripes, 8th for you. You might want to check the way google works “before going public” as you put it.
Sorry…but are you 11? LOL
I can imagine Krider and Rachel Oliver (or Lisa Molina?) hanging onto each other as the ship sinks.
Just like Jack and Rose.
*tear*
Ah fair enough then. I was under the impression some of the new BF was out while others weren’t.
I love the ‘we were working on Polaris Media Group for 18 months’ claim.
Over at the Arizona business records you can see under the Liberty League file that the name change to Polaris was put through on the 25/08/2009 (under the “ammendments” section).
I was told by Fair Trading that they concluded their investigation into Liberty League in early May.
You can also see the name change document itself under the ‘scanned document’ section listed on the 25/08/2009.
Changing the name and structure of your company and then scrambling to finish a new product line, all one month after being declared a pyramid scheme by a regulatory body is a co-incidence?
I think not.
Jan 08 – Aug 09 does put it at roughly 18 months then.
Perhaps as you said it was eventually planned to happen in their own time but due to the NSW DoFT investigation they had to rush it through early.
This fits in both with their 18 month story and the fact that the products aren’t even out yet.
@RT – was that Jan08 or Jan09?
@Pat… I understand your wanting to continue to believe… been there. Let it go. The writing is on the wall. And, sadly, there’s probably more that we haven’t seen yet.
@Cripes… how can you tell RT is based in the US? Can you see something that I can’t? If so, fill me in… I’m a little scared!!!
@Vince… funny you use the analogy of “iceberg” and “ship sinking”. I had a private conversation with a former LLI leader who used these very same words right before departing. hmmm….
Simple… his/her language used!! they referred to “Fall” not “Autumn”. I could be very well wrong and no biggy if I am I apologise now if that’s the case.
Being in the US, I wouldn’t have immediately picked up on that! But, you’re right!… we do refer to “Fall” rather than “Autumn”!
Oh. pure coincidence though. I never knew about LLI until I read about it on Whirlpool.
oh and guess what Pat…. When you do a search in Google under the “Australia” option PMG doesnt even rank on the first page in my area!! In fact I checked the first 10 pages and the only official Polaris page was their blog on page 3, now that is what I call “pretty low ranking”. And Oz’s site is number 2 right behind Whirlpool and before a myriad of other sites just like these two exposing PMG for what it is!
So while you might not see much of an affect on PMG wherever you are in the world (assuming US), here in Aus it is big and it’s a huge thanks to people like Oz and Whirlpool!!
I quit today and so did Shannon and John Lavenia…
It was just announced this evening that the Lavenias, Tony Rush and Gene Braxton left the company due to “compliance” issues. Wow.
The announcement that the Lavenias, Tony Rush and Gene Braxton left was made on the “Millionaire Mindset” call, now hosted by Rachel Oliver and Lisa Molina — it was formerly known as the Black Belt Marketing Call, once hosted by John Lavenia.
Don’t buy into this sh!t, I was told the exact same thing at the last Super Saturday in August when I asked why the Hamburgers and Swans left!! And look at how that turned out to be the biggest load of crap!!
cripes the i see the morons are criping again Norman
Norman you’re the only moron here mate, you strongly affirmed that yourself for us with all your other rantings that made absolutely no sense!!
oops sorry Norman forgot to sign my name so I seem more credible and you know its me really writing this
cheers, Tits Magee!!
i see this advert is on this site,lol,Church of Scientology
Learn about beliefs, humanitarian efforts & more. Watch online videos
Scientology.org cripes
ah yeah because that is what we are talking about on this page, that is how Google Ads works. Pretty sure this has been established 50 million times on here already for people who ask the same question!! You’re as bad as Pat Lever with your rantings about Google!!
cheers, Tits Magee (just so you know its really me!!)
Just got an email from John and Shannon Lavenia to say that they have resigned from PMG! Also rumoured that Gene Braxton and Tony Rush have also resigned( but I haven’t seen anything official on that)
or what?? your tone really is unacceptable on this blog. We all may have differing opinions but as far as I can see you are the only one threatening people, which I can only imagine people are laughing at just as I am. You do realise that we know who you are from your website posting, so you really do need to cool your jets Norman
And lets keep the postings to the issues at hand, Polaris and Scientology, people don’t get on this blog to read the rantings and attacks from you that you display so often!
Get back to the issue at hand – what do you really want from this Norman, what is your beef with Polaris???
Jeez Norman.. for someone who has been ‘network marketing’ for over twelve months you sure do come across as a complete tool. God help those that you are mentoring which hopefully are few and far between!
I recall Norman was at the Summit Conference in Hawaii, so I expect he has gone full boat and has made little if any money. He is angry at himself for falling for such a scam and has this aggression building up which he needs to displace.
I feel sorry for him, I lost $50k and have been to hell and still not back so I know what he is feeling….
Come on Norman how about a hug…..
Hey Rod – displaced anger is right!! He is coming on here preaching to and attacking the very people who understand where he is coming from and do actually empathise with him and what he is going through (if this is indeed his problem). It makes no sense what so ever to get on here and verbally belt the crap out of people who at the end of the day agree and understand. He can go write a letter to his advisor if he’s that pissed like everyone else has! But I suspect he’s getting no love there either!
Group Hug Norman, Rod ,Cripes!!! We all need a laugh or cry. Maybe the Lavenias will join us.
[QUOTE]
@Pat
What gives anyone the right to sit in judgement over someone else about what they believe in.
[/QUOTE]
Capitalism.
Scientology is considerably less marketable than cow shit.
The *public* has long since made its judgement about Scientology, and Krider and Co know it well, even if you don’t. Even defenders of LLI/PMG in this blog have assumed that making a connection between LLI and Scientology was *libelous*.
Not all beliefs are equal. The rising of the sun tomorrow morning is more dependable than, say, the long-predicted End of Days, or the coming of the aliens.
@Norman
It’s “L-I-A-R” for crissake.
Krider has now stated that he is a Scientologist, so it certainly isn’t “innuendo”. But you do seem to agree it’s not a positive for him or LLI/PMG.
Lifepath? When you get you nose out of your navel you will see the issue is a multi-million dollar FRAUD; it’s much bigger than something trivial like A vs B. Don’t you get it? They are ALL in the gun. You’ve got the dirt on Lifepath? Bring it on!
Protip: the best (only?) way to deal with untruth in a forum or blog is *rebuttal*. Abuse counts for less than nothing.
For marketing internet hot shots you lot seem not to recognise context-based ad’s when you see them. Fish/bike/shaving posts have fish/bike/shaving-related ad’s.
I’ve got them turned off, so why don’t you just do the same?
You ARE what you WRITE Norman.
Ok so now that I’ve caught up from the discussion on here and what people have privately sent me is that the Lavenias and Braxton left with a near identical resignation letter.
Also Rush might be gone but nobody has confirmed anything yet.
So who exactly is left running the ship, Krider and the Aussie EMC?
As an aside I was very pleased to see you guys continue the discussion on new developments without me. Apart from some nonsense from Norm t was great to see you guys breaking news amongst eachother.
I do kinda feel a bit sheepish about missing this news live though. Last time I had limited access Polaris started up, it’s like they time these big developments when they know I won’t be around :).
Anyway I should be back to posting normally from tommorow. Not much point making an entire new post about the recent resignations but we’ll see if anything else interesting happens over the next week or so hey.
My opinion:
Dead weight is gone. Only one scientologist left. Back to business.
Guys i’ve been following your blog for the past few days and it seems you are not impartial. Where are your ratings on any other home business? Fortunately i’m not in a home business however it would appear to anyone with a brain cell that you are PMG’s competition. Now how smart is that and more importantly where’s the integrity in all of it.
Remember the law of attraction – that which you do unto others you do unto yourself. God luck, looks like you may need it!
Seriously Alex – this is excatly what PMG are experiencing – this blogg is all about exposing these Scientologist conartist fro what they really are
@Alex, I am not involved in ANY network marketing/personal development group. Funnily enough, I am very wary of them now. You do however have a very good imagination.
As for your Law of Atrraction comment- love it. I truly believe in what goes around comes around, and the last few weeks have been testament to tha 🙂 Do you even see the irony in your comment?
I have to ask you though- who is going to buy ANYTHING to do with PMG now? Your name is MUD. I feel for you if you have wated money. I do not howver feel for you if you are one of the EMC.
As for not being impartial, perhaps you need to go back and read through all of the different threads to see why. For your own sake, because you are making yourself look rather foolish…
@Norman …. Oh dear. Speechless. I am surprised you came back and posted. I would have expected you to be hiding somewhere licking your wounds, but here you are, back and using the only thing you seem to know how to do: threatening people.
Give it up mate, let it go. You’ve lost your money. Now the true test is to see if you have the balls enough to admit you made a mistake.
Oh dear. Poor Norman.
The Mastermind Underlords are at it again trying to make a buck…
Tony Rush, Gene Braxton, and Shannon Vaneelia…
First of all any new venture they go into will be with Shannon’s north star system and crappy programmer and undeliverable emails will be behind it all in another form with another name.
Second of all Shane Krider will be behind this; secretly funding it because his PMG was a massive failure…
This same thing happened with Glanville’s unveiling of the back offic for LLI back in the day…It was not tested, too many problems, too much hype built round and too much expectation and no infastructure in place…
Now Shannon is going through exactly what Don went through…And now she feels glad her system is done and can either take it somewhere else or put a new company together with her and John at the helm…It wont work in personal development though because she is a major scientologist as well as John…
Shannons options:
Team up with CCP
Team up with Trump
Team up with LPU – not gonna happen though – she has too much pride and too stubborn
Team up with another off the wall company with her system.
Team up with Glanville – no cause Glanville has his own system
Start own company with Gene, Tony, and the systematic removal of other EMC that come aboard with her…With Shane being a part of it somehow…
Third, Shane had a allegedly had a secret meeting with these three undersleuths to systematically shut down PMG and this is the first step so that these three can go out to create the next biggest thing.
Fourth, this is the first step of the systematic shutdown of PMG. If you are still in PMG, they are just playing you right now by using your income to fund their next company/training system they want you to be involved in…
Shane Krider failed when he got rid of Brent Pain and trusted in Shannon Vaneelia…
Bottom line…
Everyone saw it still sees and 10 months later anyone still in PMG is feeling it…
Brent Payne was the entertainment and brought the fun to the party and completed Shane….
Shane’s best move at this point would be to do what he may already be doing and join back up with Brent in another deal or just leave the industry entirely…
Shane is basically a good guy, just becoming a scientologist and then putting that as basis behind personal development company was obviously a bad choice.
His options
Fold
Continue trying to build a failed idea that will never work and only make him around 100k per year.
Fund a new secret company with Shannon, Gene, and Tony at the helm.
Retire and call it a day and travel the world until another idea pops into his brain like the Ski like Brent is doing.
Whatever the case LLI created a ton of great leaders and fun and set the stage for a lot in the industry, but at the end of the day LLI and PMG failed when Shane took over.
Or Maybe Shane could buy a car stereo company…
Hey Lisa… you’ve summed up some of what I was thinking.
It’s all pretty ironic when you think about it…
Reminds of me of BigKidIncome… John McDermott, Beau Reed, Adam Arellano started up to “train your associates” so you wouldn’t have to and could focus on producing income. They set up an affiliate program. Michael Hamburger and Rhonda Swan got involved, only they violated compliance rules because they were still involved with LLI. That was a no-no. Tony, Shane, etc. came out on the calls telling everyone they didn’t need any gurus training their associates; learning the internet is easy; etc., etc….
Now they (Shannon, Tony, Gene) are starting their own training company (something we were told we didn’t need), only they’re doing it right… having resigned first so as not to violate compliance rules.
Let me get this straight… Northstar Connect by Unified Wealth Solutions… is that the PMG Northstar lead management system that PMG distributors are utilizing?
What about Shannon’s marketezee.com? Available for a monthly fee supposedly to do the same thing… train? I found links to scientology on this site… and anything she does from here on out will still be associated with scientology as far as I can tell.
A post by Tony Rush on the ning website:
You Don’t Need a Guru, Coach or Expert
‘ll be brief and I’ll be blunt:
The network marketing industry is full of clowns, charlatans and self-proclaimed “gurus” who — for the right amount of money — claim they can teach you all the “secrets” that your upline and company aren’t teaching you.
Barely a week — maybe more — goes by when I don’t have someone asking me what I think about so-and-so’s coaching program…..or if it would be a good idea to hire so-and-so to show them how to market more effectively online.
Guys, nowhere else is more important for you to simply KNOW FOR YOURSELF.
The internet is full of people who claim the ability to teach you how to do something they’ve never done for themselves. If they actually knew how to enroll 20-30 people per month in a network marketing business…….they’d be doing it.
They wouldn’t be quoting some ancient history account of what they accomplished “a few years ago”. They’d actually be IN THE TRENCHES and doing the thing themselves. After all, you can make far more as a successful network marketer than you can as a “coach”.
But that’s not their message, is it?
No, their message is always one of INVALIDATION:
— if you’re not successful, it’s because your sponsor isn’t telling you something
— if you’re not successful, it’s because your company isn’t giving you the right training
— if you’re not successful, it’s because you haven’t bought and paid for my super-secret training
It’s complete BS. And yet there’s no shortage of otherwise-intelligent people who fall for it.
Someone asked me recently if I took on coaching clients.
My answer: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
When they asked why, I told them that I had no interest in selling my time for money. Because that’s all it is. Someone who says, “I’ll meet with you five times to teach you how to work this business and it’ll only cost you $2,000″ is simply a high-priced employee. They have no leverage. Their situation is no different than a doctor or a lawyer: they might make a decent income but they’re still just trading time for dollars.
So…..if your goal is to earn a passive, residual income that numbers in the multiple six- or seven-figures…..
….why on earth would you hire someone who’s not doing that themselves?
It doesn’t make sense.
It’s a sad fact that network marketing (and personal development) attracts two different kinds of people: people who really do want to move forward in life…..and also some bottom-feeders who want to make their living by invalidating other people and making a fast buck.
So….next time you get approached by some clown who cold-calls networkers to try to sell them coaching, save yourself the time, money and frustration by just realizing one important fact:
You have everything you need within reach to create whatever result you want. But
you will never achieve your best results until you realize that the only guru you need is YOU.
Coaches….”take you by the hand” marketing coaches….self-proclaimed gurus. They’re all just foodstains on the tablecloth of this industry. Treat them accordingly.
Tony Rush
So, who’s the guru now????
Well put nameless.
I was going to stop posting here – BUT Ive decided that this is a very vital medium of assisting poeple NOT to get sucked into this BS. I will not cease at least until the person that “enrolled/sucked” me is back milking cows instead of milking poeple – get your pink gumboots out Delwyn.
@Nameless
Is that a recent quote or an old one?
If old it really shows the lengths some people will go to just to earn money. One minute their telling people they don’t need gurus and mentors and the next this is exactly what they’re offering.
If new, uh… massive contradiction much?
(actually it’s a contradiction whether it’s an old or new quote anyway).
Oz… that was posted on November 3rd.
Shane devoted an entire visionary call on this topic sometime back after the Hamburgers and Swans left supposedly for cross-recruiting LLI folks to the Big Kid Income training program.
Yes, it would seem that the Lavenias, Rush, and most likely, Braxton are going to become the gurus that they’ve said we don’t really need! And they had to resign from PMG FIRST to make it legitimate and to get Shane’s blessing… where do you think all the sheep are going to come from?
So all of these clowns will recruit more people for their circus.., continuously. Its a big planet. Glad my lesson is over. Was destined to learn this as we all do, the hard way. My advise to those who have not jumped in yet, sign up for the minimum, listen to the rants about whatever it is at the moment and observe that all they really get into is the money game. The game they are all good at playing. Stay detached and observant and you will learn a good lesson about human nature. We are all self interested…of course, but some will go to extremes to control you and empty your wallet. They deceive themselves into thinking they are “assisting” people when their own skills are just about greed. Did hear some genuine insights at times, but you can encounter this on your own without spending ridiculous amounts of money to make amateurs more ego centric. Really if the “Alice in Wonderland” EMC and “advisor” set up was not gamed so much for raking in cash, there could be something to this. Instead is just a con game where the deceivers also deceive themselves. Like Also the Truth, I was going to quit posting, but if I can highlight something that will stop eventual pain from even one more person signing up for the loss, its worth it.
good on you HC. Yes the clearity I see now with some distance – stinks of a nasty scientology game. Fairy Tale is a good description of these clowns.
I feel sad about it. I honestly thought that people were good and had my best interests at heart. But as soon as I left PMG some just deleted me from FB and Skype. I actually thought we were friends but it seems I was wrong. What happens to people? I’m mystified… It looks as though the only interest is money. And that is so crass. There is more to life than money. C’mon guys…life is too short. Love & peace to all.
just listened to that recording from Krider – Black Belt Marketing Call. These idiots are so egocentric – living in a deluded state of denial about what they “do” – the “doing” being screwing poeple – who they as Scienotologist believe exist for their own purposes – to feather their own pockets.
I note even Brent Pyne -laughing is “head off” on facebook at the failure of these criminal conners. – all of them , Krider, Oliver, McKenzie …etc
And does this person Olliver really think poeple are inpressed by her rave about her $5000 high heals?
They sound pretty stressed.
hahaha – at their were 2 of them on the call – Krider and Oliver
@Morph – thats what scientologist do – once you leave you are excommunicated – they believe you are a lesser being – not worthy of contact.
@Morph – Yes they sure are a sad bunch – lying up to the last minute, I sunk big dollars into the apparent dream team run by Kaz Spence and Melinda Spence from Polaris Media Group/LLI, up until 2 weeks ago they were telling us how she was making so much money on the compensation plan and oh how I need to re-adjust my mindset, on fire blah blah blah, then wham the same day as the Lavenia’s pulled out – well she did too ( Yes Adrian sick of BS – it does appear her head is up his arse ).
She (they) delivered a phone call stating she was no longer on fire and the compensation plan wasn’t working…..hang on last week you had a different story, well obviously she was just scamming to see how much more money she could get, then to top things off I was told she had moved to a new company selling travel, which really was an invitation for me to follow. I DON’T THINK SO MRS LEVERAGE YOUR TIME FOR MORE $$$$$$
These people need to be made accountable for their actions.
@ Yes – been scammed So sorry to hear that. It’s a tough one. I’ve spent a week adjusting to the reality of it. One thing is for sure though I won’t let this be a set-back. I wish you the best. Love & peace.
It appears that plenty of those that were ‘leaders’ with PMG are moving on to Dubli and/or TVI Express.
Nastar Designs on the Gold Coast (heavily linked to Kaz Spence and LLI/PMG) are now offering templated websites for these new opportunities. Whether or not these turn out to be similar scams, only time will tell … tread carefully if you are looking at these latest offerings.
@martin – Nastar Design in not heavily linked to LLI/PMG or Kaz Spenser. You have incorrect information.
Absolutely.
You know what is scary to hear? Distributors who have made not a cent say they will hang on until this all blows over.
Huh?
Used to be when under the LibertyLeague banner… Spence was always heavily promoting Nastar because Rita James, one of her ‘Team’ and ling time friend, was the owner of it. Information is correct, just maybe a little outdated.
Rita herself was an advisor with LLI, whether she still is I don’t know(edit: see below), some of the templated websites still carry her testimonials.
Heres one http://whybecauseican.com/ and another.. http://thegoldenhaven.com/
Well.. looks like Rita may have moved on from PMG/LLI too: http://anotherincome.com.au/
.. another bit on Rita James: her blog clearly defines the link between herself, Nastar and PMG/LLI. http://ritajames.blogspot.com/ Note the profile pic. Its the same one that appears on PMG distributors testimonials.
@ iwonder I understand that though. the investment is so huge. Not just financial but emotional and time and belief. I have left on principal, so it was an easy choice for me. It would have been harder had I not had such a strong view on not wanting to be associated with Scientology on any way.
the new facebook page for PMG is called “My Heart Belongs to Polaris Media Group”
Wow – should read “My Bank Account Belong to Polaris Media Group”
Hit the page guys
I just dont understand why poeple are so culable and stupid
Has Delwyn McKenzie left too? Does anyone know…:)
Apparently so – her facebook page has gone, she didnt turn up to an extremeteam call and she i uncontactable.
I figure she is either 1. In LA doing Sciti, 2. in hiding 3. back milking cows with her daddy
I believe Delwyn MacKenzie is a Scientologist. I believe her husband Cliff is also.
They have had their heads so far up John and Shannon Lavenia’s arse that its only natural that they would follow thEm to the church.
Delwyn is probably in LA getting Audited because the SCITI Business course was held on Dec 3-5
Rita James, the owner of Nastar Designs is/was? a LLI/PMG distributer… is that not a strong link? Her testimonial is on several pmg websites as being part of the scam.
@Martin – Rita resigned over a month ago and is as much a victum of LLI as the rest of us. She is simply a web designer. She is no longer a “provider” for PMG and is quite angry and disappointed at what had happened.
So she knows the whole thing is a scam yet is still providing new people with templated designs for pmg?? Or has she stopped doing that too?
Would be a bit two faced if she continued with pmg designs knowing what she now knows.. don’t you agree?
@ also the truth..
Sorry.. just looked at the Nastar and DubliNastar sites… I see she has stopped the PMG templates is now providing designs for TVI, Dubli and Lifepath.
Unfortunate career move, but understandable given the amount of people being sucked into all these ‘opportunities’!
Many of the EMC folks from PMG have jumped ship, and yes, running to Dubli, TVI, and Lifepath. My previous advisor was on the EMC, and left PMG this last month, because he went from making a $300k income, to around $100k this year because of the new compensation program. You know, it is interesting that when his income was high, he didn’t seem so bothered about the ‘greed’ factor behind this biz, and that most of his associates were unsuccessful, and that his success was on the backs of many. So now that his income dropped, he sees the ‘greed’ factor of Shane, and leaves. (This info based on a conversation he had with a friend of mine and previous associate of his, with the true nature of the call to recruit him to his next biz…scam.)
Money can be such a great thing if received and used with integrity. It can also cloud one’s vision, as it did with many of the top earners in PMG.
It looks like the Lavenia’s, Tony, and Gene are still linked to PMG? Their new biz is NorthStarConnect.com, but, no info as to what this is exactly, except for you do log in with a PMG associate number. Interesting….
@Lynn I agree we don’t have the whole picture. It doesn’t make sense to me. They have retired/left PMG but yet have the old UWS system reborn in what looks remarkably like PMG! I’m so glad I decided to leave when I did. But I have a feeling that Shane will pull it off. If Scientology can survive all the bad press it gets the he will too.
@Lynn and @Morph
I’m trying to find out exactly what on earth is going on. I cancelled my subsription to the Polaris NorthStar Business Builder System (was supposed to take over from UWS or Incomes Unlimited), on November 24, as monthly expiry was on 29 November. BUT, on checking out my credit card statement I find they have taken more money on 1 December. So I immediately emailed them asking for an explanation, and to reverse the charge.
I get the following response from NorthStarConnect.com:
“We show that you should have been billed by Polaris directly, and not by us, since you signed up through your MyPolarisOnline back office. However, the charge you list below is from our account.”
What!!?? So, are these guys a whole different company, and have Polaris passed on my credit card details to whoever the hell is running this???
So, of course I have emailed straight back – I NEED ANSWERS, AND MY MONEY!!
@J Yes they did it to me as weel – accept when I email them – I heard nothing. A nest of scamming conartists.
@Morph…I agree some what about the success of Scientology and the bad press. But Shane is a smaller machine and does not strike me as really bright.(or even as vicious as his Master at Scientology) If we keep up posting, maybe those who would otherwise be taken advantage of through semi truths will take a second look. You know they are “changing the world” . Not the world I want to support. Those who profit are at the top and always “playing” on dreams of others knowing full well unless they are one of the truly greedy they do not have a chance.
@ J That is useful info. I haven’t unsubscribed yet as they, PMG, owe me money but I will make sure to contact both when I finally draw the line under the whole thing. I hope you can get it sorted quickly.
What exactly is the continued business ties with the Lavenia’s, Tony Rush, and Gene Braxton? Though they officially left PMG, they still seem to be quite tied in together. Something is up for sure!
The sixfigurechick is back in business.. globaldublibiz.com/contact-us.htm
Dubli is one company that people are going to from PMG.
There is also TVI Express.
Also Trump Network.
Lots of people have gone to these groups.
I take it as a sign (another one) that PMG is over 🙂
I presume Dubli, TVI etc are scammers and it will be more of the same old crap.
If these people spent all their time on a “real” business I reckon they would do ok.
I don’t know….I do know however that Tony Rush doesn’t like them, so maybe they’re ok? LOL
(And no, I’m not involved in any. Trust has been a lil’ knocked by PMG)
@ David I wouldn’t assume all MLMs are unworthy of trust. I remain with an open mind. I have met several people within the Bob Proctor network that are making 6 & 7 figures through hard work and dedication and passion. It’s a case of finding the right one and if Trump was Global I would certainly have a look at it. TVI I am doing as it is simple and is travel which I know about and love. Dubli doesn’t speak to me as it seems to encourage spendaholicism and I know people who have a serious addicion to spending and I would not want to encourage it. All the best!
This should help you make your mind up about Dubli-
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1278895
Hi,Its funny when cairns say they have water shortage problems,and they are building a water park,using water from a deep bore hole that could supply the Cairns for the future,so why waste water building a water park for entertaiment?John
come on scientology that’s good,infact great.
I have been reading some of your postings on here and you are breaking the new FTC Guidlines you cant say anything unless it is true be careful,if you are the owner of this site.John
Well bugger me, because PMG will have to then retract all of the misleading b.s. they have been spouting since their beginning in AUGUST.
That has as much chance of happening as Rachel Oliver going back to her natural skin tone.
?
again…. ?
?????
I think somebody has had a lil too much Christmas cheer…..lol
You ever seen a water park without water?? Not very entertaining I would think.
Good point John. For Australian users it is interesting to note that most of the ‘new’ FTC regulations have been existant in Australia for yonks. The ACCC trade practices act-1974 just about covers everything that the ‘new’ FTC rules state. Its also interesting that because of the false claims and testimonies appearing on websites such as those run by PolarisMediaGroup, the FTC have had to change their regulations. Just goes to show how rife these scams are at the moment.
Ouch!!!
I believe you just broke the FTC regulation regarding false and misleading statements. The Feds will be knocking at your door.
Thats what I was thinking too…. same writing style… same nonsense…
?could ?be ?Norm ?back ?again
DELWYN MCKENZIE – I have email from her claiming that she resigned from PMG 6th Dec – and didnt want any part of Shane Krider’s “beliefs” and also stating that because of the changes had “lost everything”. Well she must have either 1. Lied about making $500k last yr of 2. Bought one hell of a lot of handbags … She also callls herself Delwyn Baker now – presumably her maiden name .
Pity about her! Tell that to the hundreds that lost plenty having never made anything in the first place, with this scam.
It seems that as all the ‘old guard’ are leaving, there are plenty of fresh con artists taking over with the hyped up testimonials and living it large lies. Rachel Oliver is still prominent though Rachel’s so thick she probably doesn’t even realise that her ‘co-stars’ have gone!
The latest ‘stars of the show’ (the ones best at lying about their lifestyles) appear to be Gaye Morgan, Yonika Mantle, Simon Haggard, Marguerite Glennon.. to name a few. Avoid these people like the plague… especially if you see their names attached to a ‘business opportunity’.
On another note… seems that registrations for the first PolarisMediaGroup ‘training’ event on the Gold Coast (where else??.. we’re not known as scam city for nothing!) are open. It’ll only cost you US$349!!!! (Wtf??)
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=191827013021#/event.php?eid=191827013021&index=1
Note how there are, at the moment, ZERO registrations. Going well guys??
Ugh- Simon Haggard is running the group.
One of the most arrogant of them all.
from the page:
“Ticket Price: $349.00 USD
Ticket includes:
– Access to the Session
– Boxed Lunch
– Morning & Afternoon Beverage Breaks”
ooo-er! You get a beverage break? That’s worth the 349usd surely…lmao
Note to anyone reading this and thinking of going: I have been to one. Just a chance for the “leaders” (those who haven’t left that is) to big note themselves and suck you in further.
Cannot stress this enough- DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY.
I agree with iwonder – avoid like the plague!
The Boxed lunch would be the key for me…lol!
I notice Scientology Simon has removed the guest list from facebook… must have been way too many names on it to fit on the page…. or not!
Funny how when things get mentioned here, they’re either removed or altered… what’s there to hide people??
Mr Simon Haggard – joke! He apparently attended a Leadership course at the Hubbard Institute in LA recently – Rachel Oliver and her right hand lady (Lynn McFarlane-Smith is no longer favour of the month – wonder what he did) made fun of the Scientology talk on a Team Down Under call recently about Simon being in a cult … the BS and lies these guys say is totally mind-blowing .. Where is the Hubbard Institute?????? What is it connected tooo???? Wake up world !!!!
Those team down under calls are a joke – all this “thanks for your leadership” to people who have not made a cent but who have shown “leadership” by investing $30,000+ and are now desparately clinging on to the remnants of their “dream” in the hope that they might somehow be able to get some sort of return on their investment before it all goes tits up.
And Rachel, tripping over her words at a hundred miles a minute.! Powdering her nose, perhaps?
have Lynn MacFalane-Smith and Bettina Evert left? About time – thought they were too honest to be involved for long
Agree with i wonder. Its all about the “leaders” showcasing themselves…and asking you to pay for that???!!! There is nothing in it for you. …. unless you are striving to be a deceitful crook as well.
have Lynn MacFalane-Smith and Bettina Evert left? About time – thought they were too honest to be involved for long
Nope last I heard Mr MacFarlane-Smith inherted Delwyn McKenzies entire team … what was left of it, if anyone is left behind … ????
@Alex Turner
I’ll give you one point for an imaginative spin on the standard script.
Impartial? Well firstly, this is an on-line forum, and it’s even called a SoapBox. And you expect IMPARTIAL? What a quaint concept.
Promoting the opposition? Another one who doesn’t understand Google’s context-driven adverts.
In my book ALL of these scammers are in the gun, *whatever* they call themselves (and they seem to have more faces than The Hydra).
–
@john
Yanqui much? The World starts at NY and ends at LA, right? The American Federal Trade Commission has exactly zero standing where this Oz (Australian) Soap Box forum is based. I know it strikes a few Americans as an odd concept, but there are OTHER countries in the world, which have their OWN legal structures, and where American laws and Rights simply don’t apply.
Difficult concept I know, but struggle with it.
Merry Christmas to you all! And let’s have an amazing 2010…
In my first ever Christmas outside of Australia, I got back late so spent Christmas eve eating McDonalds and watching ‘Fred Clause’ on HBO.
Nothing else was open!
Today it’s raining and I have to go searching for my phrasebook…. not looking forward to that!
Good luck wherever you are. AND have a special New Year!
I am keen to join a class action and I know a few other people are too. If you find a good lawyer, then maybe Oz will start a thread and we can all join.
received an email from Olliver and the pricks are coming to NZ! – including Krider, Oliver and MacFarlane Smith!!
In my opionion this man is seriously off his trolley. I met him and he was so all over the shop… Just my opinion. LOL
Are you serious? Honest? How?
Hate to say it but I’m glad Oliver will be out of Oz for a while at least….the stench of fake tan was getting a little much.
Overall- The whole thing is now just plain SAD. The only people left (and I honestly can count on one hand the ones I know who have stayed out of the many I knew were in LLI/PMG) are just purely desperate or ill- informed and haven’t yet done their research.
Haggard and Oliver really need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
Lisa Molina has publicly available pics from events on her Facebook. The GC event looks so sad and pathetic.
Michael Berry writes on his Facebook page that he is an ‘honorary Aussie’ – something to which I seriously object.
There were thirty folk who attended the event in Prague! What happened to the massive growth that Team Europe is always banging on about?
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Love it – this comment made my day!
Yeah, and that’s most likely 15 active distributors + guests – PMG’s been a real juggernaut in Europe!
there pushing Macau now, in China , i’ve always wondered why they go to these seminars , knowing the cost , its just you spend $14 grand, so i can get some of it , and the chain continues , and everyone follows the herd
Macau seems to be pretty relaxed compared to the rest of China what with all the casinos and everything.
I’d love to see someone try and push Polaris on the mainland though lol.
Just thirty?
Anyone would think Polaris’ following in Spain was huge. They’ve even got a dedicated spanish blog set up from memory. I guess it’s a far cry from the thousand odd back in the good ol days.
Polaris Media Group overcharged my credit card last year. They made a mistake, fair enough, mistakes can be made. But usually you make good, right? Wrong. After numerous messages back and forth they have now stopped all communication. So they owe me £500.00 plus I ordered some DVDs back in the day and they never arrived – $120.00 I can remember Shane Krider saying that the one thing they could get right was customer service! And I spoke to him personally about this overcharge in Puerto Rico!
If you are doing research on this company and you are wondering whether to join, don’t.
@Oz I heard it was only thirty by someone who was there… and is still in the biz.
I kind of wonder how Polaris keep hiring venues. You need more then 30 guests to hire out the local pub for an event!
Did I just hear that the CEO of Polaris has left his wife? Or did I get that wrong?
I heard the same thing today – AND SHANE KRIDER has been having a relationship with Rachel Oliver!!!
Where is integrity in that, name and shaming Brent Payne whilst he does the same in the background — AND GET THIS .. the same place i heard this (Liberty League Life Ning) it says OLIVER part owns Polaris now …
GOD HELP THE WORLD, a scientologist (who can not keep it in his pants) leading this company — opps wrong word, scam – Oh and Oliver has moved to LA … hmmmm
What? Since when did Krider have a wife?
If he has one she’s done a pretty good job of staying in the shadows!
@soapbox Yes he had a lovely wife called Michelle. She is a quiet kind of person, very demure. He also has a daughter… I hope they are both OK.
@MrBean yup it’s official they are an item! Some folk won’t like some will. I’ve already heard that some think she will be good for the biz… I think she may just have achieved her goal!!!
Rachel Oliver => Scammer and home wrecker?
Scammers really do deserve each other. 😉
Did his wife ever go to any of the LLI/Polaris events?
Not that it matters or anything but I’m just surprised because Krider’s photographs usually all show him as a lone figure or with a group of associates. It’s almost like the family was kept seperate from the company.
This in itself is strange given the amount of people that seem to join Polaris as a family unit.
He has a son, too.
Here’s the call: https://calls.polarismediagroup.com/video_library/audioWindow2.php?audioName=0000-0000_2010-02-24_VISIONA1-111111.mp3
@Joe I didn’t know that! Only ever saw his little girl… And @Oz he did bring his family with him but I think they would quit the events early. I think it is a sad day when a family splits.
I wonder what Cassandra Rigbye –associate of the month May 2009, thinks of her former step mom Rachel Oliver —associate of the month Mar 2008. I bet there could be a bit of a cat fight at the next conference. Would it be worth $15k just to see it? I think not.
It has occurred to me that being caught up in a belief system totally blurs your vision. When I was in that biz I believed the hype, I wanted to.
Now I am out of it I can see it for what it is. I still know people who are plugging away at trying to make it and I know there is no point in me trying to help them see the light. They will only be able to do that when the time is right for them.
By the way the thought of Rachel Oliver being the wife of the CEO is nauseating. PMG is not for the faint hearted it is for people who have lost their authenticity! People who shut down on their gut instinct every day. I know, I did it.
Happily I was unable to convince others to spend the money I did so I have no regrets in that area!
I just listened to the above call. Very “women’s day” stuff. Interesting to hear Shane say that Rachel is responsible for 80% of the business —what does that say for the overall business and the other distributors?
The whole tone of the call became very cultish toward the end when some of the women “honoured” and “affirmed” Shane for his leadership and integrity, and expressed their love for Rachel. It reminded me of Jesus sacrificing himself and Mary supporting him to the bitter end.
I hope Xenu is watching over them all, I suspect they will need all the supernatural help they can get.
@Boris I you have better stamina than me! I started to listen to the call but I just couldn’t stomach it.
I have first hand knowledge of cults, regrettably, and I used to joke that I had joined a money cult. Sadly I didn’t realise that I REALLY had!
If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is a duck! We are the lucky ones, we escaped!
I had a listen and got about half way through. It does indeed sound very girly magazine’ish.
I wonder if Michelle and Krider’s kids are scientologists too? Also what happens if Krider and Oliver break up now?
…and what happened to that dude, the surfer Qld bogan looking ‘boyfriend’ in Oliver’s associate of the month video?!
So many questions, listening to that call was like watching a Lost episode!
Maybe they can put out a weekly podcast with all the goss, I’d pay to listen to that… hell, there’s a legit business opportunity here somewhere.
I assume the dude in the video with the gap tooth smile is Oliver’s ex Tony, for whom she expresses so much admiration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1jnRxh9QEg Will Krider go the same way as Tony? Should be interesting from the girlie mag perspective. When the bust up comes, there will be fireworks. I wouldn’t like to be the object of Rachel’s rage.
I listened to that call last night and I am amazed at how blinded these people are at the prospect of making “easy” money to the point where they can no longer distinguish right from wrong.
This guy announces that he’s leaving his wife and in the next breath admits that he’s already involved with another woman and these idiots close the call by heaping praise on him for his “integrity”? True integrity is honoring the commitment that you made to this person when you exchanged marriage vows. “Integrity” is not bailing on a marraige when it’s not “fun” anymore or because there wasn’t a “spark” anymore.
What Shane and Rachel have done (extramarital relationship as he is still legally married) is nothing new and it’s certainly not unforgiveable and my criticism isn’t really directed at them. My criticism is directed at the people inside Polaris that can no longer see or hear how ridiculous they sound in their excitement that Shane’s marriage is over.
Not one of those people who talked at the end of the call acknowledged the pain this divorce is likely causing their children, and many others. Apparently all they can see is dollar signs in their eyes that this “merger” of Shane and Rachel is somehow going to “fix” everything.
And if they had any kind of basic business intelligence they would realize that that announcement likely just nailed the lid in the Polaris coffin. Shane said he and Rachel “got personal” in December and 2 months later he’s making her a business partner?
What’s going to happen when the “spark” leaves their relationship and they go through a nasty break up? Anybody who listens to that call and chooses to either start with Polaris or stay in Polaris is absolutely crazy.
@joe thanks for posting the audio link. this is a riot and i am still laughing my backside off. shane is leaving his wife for rachel oliver and the sheeple in pmg think it is the cat’s meow. the sheeple love it since they believe this will improve their company and their income.
i just heard days before the krider/oliver news broke that the ceo of lifepath unlimited joe need just left his wife gayle for his executive assistant joy elizabeth. they both divorced their spouses and moved in together a few weeks ago.
is this a trend among the personal development companies? improve yourself and then replace your spouse with a younger, hotter version?
sign me up!
I was scamed and lost 20 thousand dollars. Is there any way of getting back my money.
@Antonia I’m no expert but I suspect the answer is no. I can’t even get them to refund a simple over charge or admit that they didn’t send me the videos I ordered and paid for, not that I want the videos! But I would like my money. They have stopped all communication with me. Best I can do is move on and be a success in every way. It looks like Scientology is all that matters. That was always the problem for me although I didn’t know at the time.
@Morph, you know, I just have to laugh at myself for being an idiot. I went to super charged saturday what a sucker I am, I belived all the crap they served up, and then gave them my money?.
As luck would have it, my husband has a very good income and we are ok. I only wish I had fould this site befor I went. What goes around comes around and they will get what they have dished out, I hope.
Just to let every body know, I felt very uneasy tring to sell there product, I didn’t sell a thing and I’m happy about that. Thanks guys I feel a lot better now.
@Antonia I’m not so sure about being an idiot! Trusting is the word that comes to my mind.
Can you imagine the difference if they were up front about Scientology. I wouldn’t have gone near it, no wayyyy. But it was hidden and remains so at the conferences.
I am sure that Rachel Oliver must be into it and that is what it is all about. And the die hards must be into it too. You’re well out of it. 🙂
Wow! Just listened to recording. Can’t believe Polaris is still going and there are still followers. Thought everyone would have woken up to this scam. Very sad that so many people are looking for more in this world and get sucked into something like this.
Wonder if Michelle Kreider was a Scientologist. Rachel always seemed so anxious and uptight with her chain smoking and talking a hundred words to the minute. We use to joke that she was on Cocaine. Both scammers they deserve each other.
I know there are other people such as myself out there who have invested substantially – not just in the products, but advertising, maybe not working in other employment to concentrate on making the business effective – and who have seen very little return.
I am looking into legal options for recovering my lost money. If there is a group of people who are in this boat and would like to discuss the option of recovering money as a group, please reply to this comment and keep your eyes open for further info.
They are way ahead of you. They have experience in screwing ppl and wont be caught out
My story has been told early on in these blogs, but I thought I might refresh my story.
We lost $50,000 in 12 months with Liberty League. We cut our losses before the change to PMG.
Our advisors (recent associates of the month) urged us to keep going, don’t give up, the only way you fail in this business was to give up, do what the “leaders” like themselves did and step up with conference tickets, your business will explode (more like their wallets), avoid toxic people, dis-own family and friends who are negative, and on it goes.
My initial plan in the business was to just purchase Beyond Freedom and test the water, work from home to have a work/life balance, but I was soon manipulated, coerced, convinced to step up and go “full boat”. There were many ways to find the money they said, and that is what we did.
To this day I still cannot believe it has actually happened.
I would like to recover the conference ticket costs from my advisors, as yet no response from an email I have sent them. I don’t know if they are still active with PMG and how many of their team are still around.
They still have a registered ABN and ACN.
I don’t know what the chances are of recovering monies, we are still in mortgage stress, unable to recoup our debts, so expensive legal action is impossible. I think a class action against the individual advisors with an ABN/ACN would be the way to go, forget PMG direct, IMO no chance from Australia, need to target the Australian entities of the company. If a few associates from an advisors’ team came forward maybe there would be a case.
@Disheartened@Rod
I would love to recover my money, I think a class action against individuals, would be the way to go. I would love to be involved.
Past cases where a class action has been brought up hasn’t seemed to have gone anywhere.
Not sure if people have hit brick walls attempting a class suit but as far as I’m aware nobody’s gone forward yet.
these ppl in this company are like snakes in the grass – hunting for your money with zero concern for the consequences for you.
There are no legal consequences for themselves and it is justifiable to themselves in terms of YOUR failure. They are in all essence criminals.
I have lost count of the number of poeple who have made substantial losses to this – myself included – we are now in serious financial stress – not knowing if we will be able to survive.
I personaly would love see my “advisor” McKenzie somewhere in public – and she knows so has gone to ground.
Received some funny info…they are now giving away Free tickets to the conferences! Do you think that maybe ticket sales are down? Hmmmm, wonder why that could be? C’mon, wake up people!
Looks like they’ve also ditched John, Shannon, Tony and Gene (Unified Wealth Solutions/Northstar Connect)as providers of their lead management system:
Can’t believe they are charging for the marketing platform. Wouldn’t it be in Polaris’ best financial interest to make their distributors as efficient, effective and there for profitable as possible?
Congrats Oz! As Krider is only interested in climbing the ladder within the cult I’m not surprised he charges for absolutely everything. Becoming a thetan is very expensive!
Sadly there are plenty of people looking for an opportunity to make money and what they don’t know, unless they dig around, is that they will also be funding the ceo’s mad desire to “go clear” or whatever the terminology is.
Don’t do it people, it won’t go anywhere good.
LLI always charged for the back office/lead management system. That was not the point of my post. I thought John, Shannon, Tony and Gene left PMG because their outside interest (UWS/Northstar Connect) was in conflict with them being distributors with PMG, and so they could offer their services to all distributors. It looks as though they’ve all been dumped.
They (John, Shannon, Tony, Gene) are marketing a new marketing system that is supposed to work for anyone in any network marketing company. Also, Tony has joined a new network marketing company. I would guess they are all trying to find new streams of income.
and pennyless
Heads up: this week’s Four Corners is an investigation into Scientology. ABC TV, Monday, 8 March, 2010, 8:30pm, AESST
Repeated on late Tuesday night.
Ang
They need the money. Someone sent me this link: http://dev.polarismediagroup.com/events/events.php
108 people registered for their premiere event of the year. Didn’t those 2 ladies say they would cut their hair in front of thousands? Nyssa Haggard and someone else? Typical, lying again.
Look at the registrar; 13 of the 108 attendees are new distributors enrolled with Polaris Media Group, the rest of the attendees are Liberty League carryovers. You can tell by the distributor ID numbers, numbers over 200000 weren’t given out until the switch to Polaris Media Group. Numbers over 100000 were assigned out through Liberty League International.
You know, I would be pissed if I were on that list and everyone had access to my contact info… it’s all on the registrar list if you export it.
Looks like 181 attendees when you count guests. I don’t think they’ll even be able to hire top speakers with that kind of turnout – it will probably be 5 days of Rachel, Shane and the rest of the EMC Scientologists safepointing everyone.
Awesome way to spend $15k and 5 days in Macau.
OMG that is so naff we’re well out of it! I really hope it collapses soon. That Krider ruined a business, such as it was…
Seriously, anyone able to get a refund should ask for their money back. You’re going to feel horrible that you spent so much money to hangout with 100 die hard PMGers and their spouses/partners.
Don’t drink the kool-aid.
Yesterday’s New York Times article on Scientology: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07scientology.html
108 reservations means theoretically 216 people rocking up since each ticket is 2 people right?
Of course more could but I doubt everybody is going to bring 4 guests to make the ‘thousands’ number. Hopefully someone who attends can give us a report on how it goes.
I’m kinda curious as to how this ‘big ticket’ event will pan out with such a low turnout. Bet the atmosphere will be grindingly awkward!
And is it just me or if you click on ‘2010 INFLUENCE LIVE – MACAU, CHINA’, you’re actually able to change the details of the event?!
(note: I haven’t tried clicking the submit button so I don’t know if authorisation is required).
I too had a giggle at the ‘export’ button and personal details (publicly available street addresses and mobile numbers… really?) of every associate registered for the event. That’s certainly some kickarse security Polaris have got going there…
@Joe thanks for this. I read it and watched the video. The woman in the piece cannot truly leave because of her family still being part of the church. This is a trait in cults, they split families up. You cannot see what you cannot see until you see it. Weird or what? But pieces like this in the press can help people to validate their suspicions. Good stuff.
I won’t get into bashing someone’s religion. But one thing that seems cmpletely inarguable is that Shane Krider took a profitable business and ran it into the ground.
The rumor is that the company was so far into debt for their conference call system that Rachel had to loan the company money to pay the bill. And that’s why the company slashed their call schedule by 2/3.
Hey, if she’s got to pay the company’s bills, it makes sense that she should demand to be a partner. Still you have to wonder what kind of person she is to have spent all that time with Michelle in Puerto Rico while she (Rachel) was screwing her husband.
Yeah, this is really the kind of people you want teaching how to be successful in life.
got a mate on Facebbok , who does the Polaris thing , she posted some link about how great the company was , i asked her if she was a scientologist yet (tongue in cheek) Facebook wouldn’t allow the question, as i don’t have permission to ask that , can’t see why she would block me …odd
Uh, Facebook blocked the message because it contained ‘Scientology’ or she pre-emptively blocked you as a user??
nah its ok now , couldn’t post before
I am definitely still keen on the idea of banding together in a class action. I contacted ACA and heard nothing back, thought some media coverage could help.
Also, contacted lawyers in the US currently taking on class action and they won’t help Aussies as it is US-exclusive. Looks like we would need a brand new groundswell and some good lawyers. The people who scammed me are on EMC, would love to see them go down.
Nick Xenophon has realy taken issue with Scientology, it really is a maze of a ‘religion’ – I must admit I don’t have a clue about the whole thing and the PMG members don’t seem to either!
Faith is trusting in the good; fear is putting your trust in the bad
When you look at yourself and feel dissatisfaction about any part of you, you will continue to attract feelings of dissatisfaction because the law mirrors back to you exactly what you are holding inside. Be in awe and wonder at the magnificence of you!
‘I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances’
Martha Washington (1732 – 1802)
‘All the quotations in the world won’t clear your credit card debt.’
– Vince (2010)
‘A person who relies on inspiring quotes from others to get by in life, has serious problems and no personal development will help them’ Rod (2010)
Susan, unless you can contribute to this discussion why don’t you just go away….
lmao
hehe
News just in, their Hawaii event has been canceled. Any quotes for that one, Susan?
@Vince Ooooh I can’t help smiling when I hear that… strange isn’t it as I’m not a vindictive person! As far as staying positive goes that’s ok but it shouldn’t be assumed that those people who speak out about feeling let down and ripped off are not getting on with their lives and having a blast despite the debt etc. I for one am doing just that.
Life is all about choices, you win some and you lose some. My life is on the up not because of LLI/PMG but despite the experience. Shane Krider is a lost boy who has found refuge in a dodgy cult. My take on that is I wish him well and his equally misguided g/f…
It is a real sign of a cult when all someone can do is post positive quotes amidst a sea of former colleagues who are hurting. Get out Susan there are better things to do than helping Shane and Rachel to climb the Thetan ladder!
Battlefield Earth writer apologises for worst film of the decade: http://insidemovies.moviefone.com/2010/03/29/battlefield-earth-writer-apologises-for-worst-film-of-the-decad/
For those that don’t know Battlefield Earth is a Scientology movie.
Hahaha I love the line ‘Shapiro describes how he initially got into Scientology to meet women (because apparently “there is nothing hotter than a girl offering a free stress test”).‘
How the hell do you convince yourself Scientology is the go to place to meet women at!?
The Lavenias have launched their new biz and are recruiting across the globe for leaders! As far as I know they are also Scientologists.
So watch out those of you who are going to join them. A cult is a cult is a cult…
Morph
LifePath Unlimited Breaking News … JOE NEID ADMITS TAX EVASION FOR 20 YEARS!
I heard it from the ex-Mrs Neid, Gail R, today (6/25/2010) myself. Gail, Mr. Neid (Niedospial)’s long time common-law wife (of 22 years) just spilled the INSIDE beans with me on the phone.
It seems Joe dumped her unceremoniously back in Sept 2009. So much for the integrity he so espouses to have, not to mention true personal development and PESONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
For those of you doing the digging, check the Scottsdale Civil District Court (or whatever they call it there) referencing a “common law marriage” between Gail Reidy and Joe Neid.
Joe NEID TESTIFIES on the witness stand that he hasn’t paid the IRS in over 20 years! It’s all right there in the court records. That’s why the IRS is on his tail now.
If only he were a different kind of person, who actually treated people right. He has a history of screwing people over, and I have personal experience.
I’m too busy to do the digging, however, I know there are those of you out there that will. HAVE FUN!
..any one still reading this? Wished I had of known about this website before I fell for the sob story of fellow school student Delwyn and a guy who was a ‘good friend’ (my advisor. Would like to talk further if anyone wants to. I still live in the same town as her. Husband gone she’s got a US boy now.
I still live in the same town as Del her husband went last year and a US man is on the scene now. I went to school around the same time and trusted her words when I asked for advice. I invested over $30,000 all the time she knew it was sinking.
yes Delwyn McKenzie too me for a ride also.
@ another one bites the dust.
Sorry this happened but I have used the whole thing as a learning experience in one way or another. Maybe sounds cheesy but it’s the truth. I just picked myself up and started all over again.
Life is good again and also I will never fall for hype again. This much the whole experience taught me. I seem to have developed an allergy to it.
We didn’t know, we believed, and there is nothing to be embarrassed about that. If I had had one inkling of a notion that they were Scientologists I would have rune for the hills. I take responsibility for not finding out.
Wishing you the best. Morph
Sorry to hear of your loss.
Seems to be a few people associated with Polaris who’ve chopped and changed partners. I know people change partners naturally over time anyway but guess I’ll always wonder if it’s got anything to do with the whole Scientology thing.
I imagine if you’re not a Scientologist then going out or being married to one isn’t much fun.
I’m annoyed at the fact that I am a hard worker who decided to look into running an honest business from home and to come across an opportunity that can only be described as ‘too good to be true’. If anyone is so silly enough to believe that they can make huge amounts of money within the first few weeks without doing the hard work really is a dreamer (sorry).
Meanwhile about Polaris Global – I can not stand people that feel they have the right to earn a living ‘off the backs of other people’. What about the old age saying fair days work for fair days pay????? Polaris Global doesn’t sit comfortably with me – as soon as I got that first call – it felt like secret squirrel business. I had to pass GO before I got to the second round which harboured nothing more than crap music with a feeling of this just feels wrong attached to it. It just smelt of cult!!!!
What sent me off the rail is that fact that this is possibly linked to religion. How dare someone think they have to the right to try and convert me into their belief system. It’s nothing more than bullying. If someone tried that on in the work force the first thing that would come out of the mouths of the innocent would be the Code of Conduct and back off or I will put in a complaint about you.
Folks if you have faith then simply ask yourself this – is it possible that you are closer to winning lotto than becoming rich from this business? Go and buy yourselves a nice book to read and head down the best coffee makers near your home and spend time just breathing in and out. It’s the best money you would have saved and spent! Oh and for those folk that have written about losing huge amounts of money – my friend if only you have known me I would have told you to don’t be a fool and give it to scrum like this!
Yes Ali you are entirely right. These conartists target poeple with a need to make some cash. It is imoral and probably illegal but they have devised a means to hide themselves outside of the country where they live and hide behind the internet and there bullshit Scientology which allows them to rip off poeple without any concious.