Liberty League International: How bad is it in Australia?
It seems in the midst of a global recession advertising has dropped to new lows in Australia. Along with stupid freaking ringtone ads, three hour long infomercials every night and phone sex ads that feel like they’re airing earlier and earlier every year Australians are now increasingly being exposed to home businesses selling Liberty League International.
With increased financial stress comes desperation and rather then business success, this desperation is what I believe is fuelling the increase in opportunists out to exploit the
So just how bad is it in Australia and how are they all connected?
Foreword: I refuse to link to several marketing websites featured in this article. I’ll provide text of the urls of the websites but if you want to visit them you’ll have to copy and paste the addresses into your browser. I apologise for this as I know it’s hugely annoying but as I said, I refuse to directly link to their dodgy marketing sites. /end foreword
The most obvious and common link you’ll find between these programs are that they all are involved in promoting self motivation or self improvement products from Liberty League International although none will openly admit it in the sales pitch.
Don’t believe me?
I recently wrote about probably the most prominent advertisers in the Australian market currently, Sixfigurechicks and detailed what you can expect by signing up to them. A short time later reader Martin made the helpful comment;
heres two more adds on tv at the moment pushing the same company. uxl and nowucan2. Beware…be very aware!!
Using Martin’s comment on my original article as a springboard I’ve discovered that the more I probe at Liberty League International in Australia the more I don’t like what I’m seeing.
The same scammy looking type websites, sob stories and even faces keep popping up convincing me there’s some sort of alliance, partnership or business agreement going on between Australian based associates of Liberty League International.
We’ll start our journey off at sixfigurechicks.com. Six Figure Chicks is the most prominent and widely advertised marketing website for recruiting people into the Liberty League International program. I’ve previously gone into detail about what they’re about so I won’t repeat myself here.
When you visit Six Figure Chicks, you’ll notice the long list of photos of her ‘six figure chicks’. When I first visited the page in doing research for my article I coudn’t help but have a glance at the photos to see if there were any hotties.
I’m not going to pretend it was something noble because it isn’t. I’m a guy and that’s what guys do.
I then went on to visit both the sites that Martin mentioned. Visiting these sites, both of which are advertising on foxtel and free to air tv I believe, I began to notice a pattern. The business models seemed incredibly similar to sixfigurechicks. Not just in that scammy marketing kind of way but strikingly near identical.
UXL.com.au doesn’t mention anything about motivational or self help courses, Liberty League International or exactly what you’ll be doing. UXL seems to heavily focus on what you won’t be doing by attempting to distance itself from the common negatives found in these types of schemes.
A UXL advertisement features a blonde woman who looks awfully familiar.
Go back and have a look at sixfigurechicks.com, fifth row from the bottom on the far right. There she is, her name is Rachel Oliver. She’s also listed on the testimonial page of UXL at uxl.com.au/rachel.php complete with an audio sob story and glowing photos.
The publicly available registry details for uxl.com.au are;
Domain Name uxl.com.au
Last Modified 02-Jan-2009 02:43:27 UTC
Registrar ID Aust Domains
Registrar Name Aust Domains
Registrant Rachel Oliver Enterprises Pty Ltd
Registrant ID ABN 28128761115
Eligibility Type Company
Registrant Contact ID C124461-AD
Registrant Contact Name Rachel Oliver
Registrant Contact Email email@example.com
Tech Contact ID C124461-AD
Tech Contact Name Rachel Oliver
Tech Contact Email firstname.lastname@example.org
Rachel Oliver Enterprises hmm? Here are some other websites Rachel Oliver has set up to draw people in:
nextbigboombiz.com – look familiar? The web layout is practically the same as uxl.com.au. Note: to turn off the annoying audio the button is on the right under the navigation menu.
extraordinarylife.com.au/Rachel-Oliver.html – this is in a blog style format, it links to a contact page where you plug in your details. Note it mentions a ‘group of everyday people’, this along with the mention of ‘contact us‘ and ‘we will telephone you’ on the sign up page strongly suggests this isn’t a one woman operation.
femail.com.au/work-at-home-business.htm – another marketing website created by Rachel urging you to sign up.
Rachel’s put quite alot of work into promoting her business. So what is her business?
Run by Jerry and Sue Smart, nowucan2.com.au is a lot more amateurish but does mention the fact it’s tied into the ‘Personal Development Industry’. This is probably due to the fact that they seem to have developed the website themselves.
The publicly available registry details of nowucan2.com.au confirm the owners:
Domain Name: nowucan2.com.au
Last Modified: 10-Jun-2009 06:28:48 UTC
Registrar ID: Distribute.IT
Registrar Name: Distribute.IT
Registrant: Smarties Investments Pty Ltd
Registrant ID: ABN 94465504434
Eligibility Type: Company
Eligibility Name: Smarties Investments Pty Ltd
Eligibility ID: ABN 94465504434
Registrant Contact ID: DIT-954135
Registrant Contact Name: Sue Smart
Registrant Contact Email: email@example.com
Tech Contact ID: DIT-954136
Tech Contact Name: Sue Smart
Tech Contact Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
The Smarts have been just as busy as Rachel in promoting their business.
homebiztopearner.com/ – this is another site run by Sue and Jerry smart. This seems to be their international marketing page as opposed to nowucan2.com.au which targets Australia.
myjobspace.co.nz/search?EJS_EMPL=55300 – here’s a ton of advertisements on New Zealand job website ‘My Job Space’. They all link back to homebiztopearner.com.
homebiztopearner.wordpress.com/ – Sue Smart even has a wordpress blog setup rubbishing competitor (in the home business market) Amway’s Network 21 system. Having said that I have no idea what Amway’s Network 21 system is and I’m certainly not suggesting what she’s written isn’t true but it’s clear she’s just made the page to rubbish a competitor.
myjobspace.com.au/company/55300 – The Smarts have an entry on the Australian version of My Job Space but curiously no advertisements are listed. Maybe the NZ version is cheaper to list ads?
So once again I ask the question, what are they selling?
I’ll point you in the direction of raisingriches.com/page8.php, scroll down and have a look at the third last testimonial. Look familiar?
Thank you Liberty League! After the experience of four other businesses we love the simplicity of this business.
The fact that we can put people on the calls day and night and have great leaders within Liberty League explain the fundamentals on our behalf is simply outstanding.
This gives us time leverage of which we now spend with our four children. We take full advantage of the calls and they bring great success 11 Beyond Freedoms, 2 Liberty Tickets and 4 Summit Tickets last month!
This truly is Lifestyle. We enjoy being on the calls every night and giving our testimony which fires up our passion for the business even more and makes us forever grateful that we came across this amazing business!
Sue and Jerry Smart
Smarties Investments Pty Ltd
You can also see a listing under honors for ‘Liberty League Rising Star’ (some achievement award Liberty League hand out) on Sue’s Linkedin listing.
I’m not entirely sure what ‘put people on the calls day and night’ means but it sounds sort of call centre’ish. Perhaps they work as a team with others (I told you there was some sort of business deal going on with all these guys) and split the profits from Liberty League’s products?
So that’s two major associates exposed, are your alarm bells going off yet?
At this point in the post I’d like to point out that a hell of a lot of these sites are designed by Dave Heggie’s company DaVE (dave.net.au). You can see his logo on the bottom of most of the associate marketing sites I’ve linked. You’ll not that not one of them is listed in his portfolio though.
I wonder why.
I have no idea if there’s some business deal going on with Liberty League International or the Australian associates of the company have just spread the word amongst themselves but it’s massively suspicious that alot of these sites have been designed by Heggie. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.
Doing a google backlink trace back to dave.net.au I was able to find one more website which I’ll end on, fivestaronlinebusiness.com. This site is run by Yonika and Paul Mantel.
They describe their business as a “North American based Company with a proven 8 year track record and we have now launched in Australia and NZ”. Sound familiar? It should.
What’s important about this website is that it offers a third tie in linking sixfigurechicks, Rachel Oliver and the Mantel’s as some sort of Liberty League International Brisbane based associate group.
Rachel Oliver is listed on the testimonial page of fivestarbusiness.com (fivestaronlinebusiness.com/testimonials.html) as well as Yonika and Paul Mantel’s other site, 5-star-lifestyle.com (scroll down about a third of the way down. Note annoying music will play when you open the second site and can be turned off by stopping the video at the top.
If you have a look at fivestaronlinebusiness.com you can see Yonika and Paul’s photo. Now go have a look at sixfigurechicks.com and have a look at who’s face is to the left of Rachel Oliver’s (fifth from the bottom, second from the right).
Finally go have a look at Rachel Oliver’s website testimonials and see who’s listed as the second testimonial (nextbigboombiz.com/testimonials.html).
These guys are clearly all working together to play the Australian public and I don’t know what else needs to be said other then enter into business with these people at your own risk.
I’m not disputing their making money but these are the people at the top of the Australian pyramid. They got in first so they’ll enjoy the cream of the profit while you’ll come in at the ground level. That’s how it works and that’s how they make the money.
I’ve given you all the information you need to know, what they sell, how they’re working together and the lengths they’ve gone to to spread Liberty League International.
The rest is up to you Australia.
Great article and accurate information, just what we need here in Australia to expose Liberty League International for what it is, Pyramid selling with “3 products” to make it legal.
Just followed a web address that has been posted on traffic poles all over our area, to freedom-4-u , and it seems to have the same “8 years of success in USA, and now new to Aus & NZ” history in its blurb. Possibly another branch.
freedom-4-u.com.au is a bit strange. It’s run by Russ & Maria Longland but they primarily feature Wendy Stevens who runs coachyoutosuccess.com and claims to be the most succesful Libery League associate in the US.
Here’s the spam video from LLI featuring Wendy;
They also call their business ‘Unified Wealth Solutions’ which is actually the name of the company Liberty League associates seem to have some agreement to host their sites with.
Unified wealth solutions appear to be the online prescence for a lot of these associates in that they let them create basic sales pages, host them and link them to custom domains for them.
freedom-4-u.com.au is definately Liberty League International.
Thank you very much for your in depth research. I’ve seen the ads for UXL on Foxtel and you have confirmed what I thought about what they’re selling, which is a whole load of “self help” garbage! They are bludgers using the ‘secret’. And the “Law of attraction” will draw the vulnerable, and their money, into the disguised branch of Liberty League and further hypnotise all suckers.
P.S. I once joined a conference call for Unified Wealth Solutions. IT WAS A WHOLE LOT OF TALK….ULTIMATELY ABOUT BUYING NOTHING EXCEPT A PLACE IN THE ORGANISATION…OH’ SORRY, YOU DO GET A HEAP OF MOTIVATIONAL STUFF THAT COSTS 5 BUCKS TO PRODUCE AND YOU GET MENTORED! GREAT! I think the ACCC should blacklist the whole lot of MONEY SUCKING LEECHES
Someone needs to do a video mashup of all these shite ads.
What’s that going to achieve, they’re all the same!
Just came accross a liberty league forum at http://www.libertyleaguelife.ning.com
I joined as a free member just to have a peak!! There seems to be an awfull lot of members active in the ‘new’ ranks but very very few in the ranks of three months or older.
Theres also alot of people looking to share accomadation to events and enquiring about free advertising which leads me to believe that for those people posting, they are by no means wealthy.
Worth having a look at…. makes interesting reading!
Sounds interesting. The forum needs a NingID to be accessed and from what I can tell they seem somewhat legit, the ID authentication has nothing to do with Liberty League.
Still might be worth seeing if Bugmenot has a disposable ID you can use with them. I’m stuck behind a work firewall so I can’t see if they have any.
The ning id is just a confirmed email address so anyone can set up a ning page. I’ve been reading through some of the posts and some are a little disconcerting. People looking to finance their event costs are openly encouraged to borrow from wherever they can, sell their possessions etc., The administrator is a guy called Tony Rush, a self proclaimed ‘guru’ of marketing. Any sticky requests or questions get shot down and discussions closed… he runs a tight ship!
The more I read on the forum, the more I feel that people are being sort of brainwashed. Part of the personal development course requires you to refrain from listening to or reading any form of media for thirty days …… ???? This mob are dangerous…. steer well clear!
To calrify… a Ning page is similar to a facebook or myspace page and has nothing whatsoever to do with Liberty League. Many small business’s use Ning to connect with their customers etc., etc., so don’t put Ning into your bad egg basket just yet!!
I actually love how people say that they have researched something when clearly they researched the surface. I am a liberty league associate and I will not deny it.
Unlike anyone here i actually spent six months researching it before I decided to become an associate(ps and this is thorough research). I have been involved in other business venture I wont mention it as I don’t like to bag anyone out and did not work out and I did not want to start anything again and waste my time.
Clearly no one knows how the business runs because all the stuff written above does not make any sense if you researched how you market the business you would know what I mean. And the guy that said he joined as a free member I have no idea what he is talking about there is no such thing as a free member!
Firstly there is lots of money to be made in this business and it certainly is not a Pyramid believe me its way off! Sue and Jerry Smart made $77,000 in their fourth month and they started beginning of 2008, so its nothing to do with they got in early. When I say I did my thorough research that I did, I asked to see their bank account!.
Please imagine this if you spent some money advertising on TV and you mentioned Liberty League,you got interested, then someone else also advertised Liberty League on TV and you went ahead with the next person. Why waste your time if this can happen. Clearly there needs to be a differentiation in advertising because once again this is not a Pyramid and if you dont get that then sorry you need to investigate further.
Ps I really hope you post this!
Hi Clara, I’m happy to hear from associates as well as those against the program.
To deny Liberty League isn’t a pyramid scheme and then point out the incomes of one of the entry level players in the Australian market is a bit rich. I’m not disputing the Sue and Jerry make money what I am trying to get out there is if you join now you’ve got incredible odds against you.
I note you mention Sue and Jerry’s fourth month of LLI was the first quarter of 08. Most of these sites claim that LLI has been in Australia for 2 years, which puts Sue and Jerry as starting up in the first six months easily. That puts them at a huge advantage pyramid wise as they got in whilst it was relatively new here.
Think about it, there’s only so many people living in Australia and you’re all selling the same product. I assume LLI (please correct me if otherwise) prohibit associates undercutting eachother so you’re also all selling the same products at the same price.
What then differentiates one associate from the other is how effectively they can convert other people into becoming LLI associates which is cannabilising your own market business wise and unsustainable in the long term.
Marketing wise UWS seem to have a monopoly on associates marketing pages and whilst the option to set up your own domain and site is there again your selling the same products at the same prices. The only way you’re going to get an edge is through SEO and catching people who search for say ‘liberty league melbourne’ or ‘liberty league brisbane’ etc.
Even then there are only so many entries on the first page of google and pyramid marketing sales pages don’t tend to rank well. This is why Sue and Gerry Smart and Rachel Oliver have locally branded LLI under their own business names and marketed under that. They have buckley’s chance of ranking with generic ‘Liberty League’ searches but if they can market Sixfigurechicks or UXL etc. they have a good shot at ranking first for those terms which is their angle.
At the end of the day though they are still all selling the same thing.
Brisbane seems to be a saturated market so I have no idea how new associates plan to stand out and make a living, again there’s only so many people in Brisbane to approach. Sydney and Melbourne appear to be less saturated but I imagine we’re a much tougher market to crack.
As a new associate you’ve got to compete with the existing Brisbane cartel who have cornered online branding of LLI locally and have a national tv presense. To top it off for every dollar you make part of the sale winds up in their coffers because whoever reffered you was referred by someone who was eventually referred by them so they get financially stronger.
Sure it’s not impossible to crack an established MLM market but let’s be realistic, there’s a reason 85% of associates are making less then $35,000 a year.
Thanks for that, but firstly I really want to point out LLI is far from an MLM, believe me I built an MLM for three years I certainly know the difference, this you tube will give you a better understanding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLIN8dF92VI
Also the market is far from saturated, Sue and Jerry smart broke the company’s records last month achieving a level of higher then $200,000 US in the month of june!
Look I understand everyone’s points up there, I was probably one of them at one stage, but I tell you I did 6 months of research. This is also global, so the market is really unlimited and with their products we haven’t seen the begining of its boom yet,.
Again I’m not questioning Sue and Jerry’s earnings, all I’m saying is they got in when LLI was ‘new’ to Australia and thus have built up a large pyramid of associates under them. All they have to do now is sit back and encourage the plebs under them to sell and rake in the passive income.
What do you think happens to some of that 40% you hand over to LLI when you make a sale?
The business model is the same as MLM in that you’re handing over some of the money from your sales to your uplink all the way to the top.
Just because you’re selling the business model as opposed to actual products doesn’t make it any less MLM. Something is being sold and money is being passed up, that’s the definition of MLM right there.
And as for LLI being a global business, apart from countries where associates haven’t broken into the local market do you really think there’s going to be any opportunity or angle that the top of the pyramid associates haven’t already tried in those areas?
Out of curiosity how long have you been in LLI and how much have you earnt? Actual profit, not what you’ve sent to your parent associate.
Hi this is actually my 5th month, the first month I didn’t make anything because I was getting qualified, my second month I only made $1000 US, my third month I made $5000 US, fourth I made $8000, and this months I made 17,000 US woo hoo! I am still in shock over it. And if you like I am more then happy to post my bank details, it will show you the money I made and the money that was transferred to the company, my first two training sales at the beginning were passed up to my associate but from then on after that the wholesale amount goes to the company NOT the associate!
…and how much have you spent?
Like Cara I too joined Liberty League. The first month I spent $10,000 and made nothing. The second month I spent over $1000 and made nothing. The third month I spent over $1000 and made nothing… although I did unfortunately sign up two associates whose payments were passed up to my associate (I say unfortunately as I feel guilty they got caught up in this too). The fourth month I spent $1000 and made $1000… great hey! The fifth month I spent about $50 and made nothing…
By the sixth month of following their system I decided I couldn’t keep trying to seduce others into this business purely so I could recoup my foolishly invested money. And yes I did find myself advertising in the same places as all those mentioned above… who obviously have more to spend and a better success story than mine to attract others.
So I hope more people read this before they decide to join. Yes there are people making very good money in this business, but there are a lot more spending heaps and making nothing, believe me I’m one of them.
So Cara you have made USD$31,000 in five months. Looks like you purchased your Liberty and Summit tickets to achieve that, so you have spent USD$22,485 on all three products. Your “profit” = USD$8515
Now take into account airfares and accommodation you are not in profit at all, and that is not even factoring in ongoing costs such as the LLI backoffice, UWS lead management and conferencing, and the HUGE MARKETING COSTS. Also taxation is not talked about.
I left the company due to financial and MORAL reasons. Most people joining are in financial hardship already, as you can see by the desperate attempts by new associates to get finance to purchase/attend conferences. One “leader” has sent an email listing “creative ways” to get financing, there were a dozen ways to try to get finance after the traditional methods have failed. The only one not on the list was SELL YOUR HOUSE.
I think in this current economic climate, this is nothing short of EVIL.
The email was linked to a team website which was password protected. I cannot access the site now since coming back from the Summit conference, funny about that, That’s when I told my Advisor that I would be no longer active in the company. I am sure Tony Rush had something to do with it. He is the cover up king as you have probably seen in Liberty League Life. Time to go in there and have some fun.
On the training calls there are plenty of suggestions given to newbies on ways to finance your liberty league purchases
– credit cards
– borrow from friends and family
– sell things, including your car
– refinance the house or use existing equity
They just don’t tell you that once you have spent the money, you’ll have little chance of earning or paying it back.
two team sites people can check out are
teamdynasty.info – some info needs a password, which I can provide to Oz by email
BE AWARE – don’t get sucked in by their hype and promises.
hmm any chance I could get a copy of that email? I’d love to tear it apart.
Look. Don’t be too hard on Liberty League members posting on here. Can you imagine having spent the best part of $30k au on some pathetic scam and then see your beloved investment being cut to pieces on a board such as this?? How would you feel?
Take it easy on them.
Oh yeah… Cara, where are those bank statements?
Don’t kid yourself regarding the Smarts. They’ve been in the industry for years and years so fair play if they’ve finally hit a winning streak, allbeit short lived. They are by no means overnight success stories, nor are the likes of Tony Rush… or Michael Hamburger… or Rachel Oliver… or Gene Braxton… or, I would think, any of the top earners. Thats what bugs me about all this. Yes, it is possible (though extremely unlikely) to make money from these types of business models but please spare us the ‘six figure income in six months’ drivel.
There are quite a few in Liberty League who have come from Herbal Life. Rachel Oliver, Pauline & Simon O’Halloran, Kieron & Kristi Atkinson to name several. They have all had experience in MLM, experienced in marketing and sales, huge email lists etc, so they have had the best opportunity in this business.
That’s kind of interesting seeing as Rachel Oliver in particular states a few years ago she worked for a Sydney based large multinational corporation in a sales role making a six figure income. You can hear her below mention this.
uxl.com.au/rachel.php (copy and paste)
Unless of course ‘large corporation’ is a code word for ‘another type of scam’ and used to work is code for ‘that ran dry’.
I dont work for Liberty league,but i have to question you?? Why are you after this company anyway?What did they do to you to get such a Hammering??? What do you do for a living? Rachel oliver earns more than a million dollars a year and many LL people earn hundreds of thousands of dollars each year.Like all business,some people make money and some dont.Pyramids??? Isnt BHP and all companies pyramids anyway? There is always someone at the top who earns the most,right down to the cleaners at the bottom.All companies are pyramids!! They all sell something that people want.FYI Personal development is not only needed today in all this doom and gloom but its worth 100 Billion dollars worldwide.I find forums are a just a base for people like you to whinge about someone elses business because you are not successful yourself,if you were you would not have the time to do all the research and write such articles.No I am not with Liberty league,I am just sick of whingers who have nothing else to do but have a crack at other people.send me your feedback and tell me how much money you earn?? I bet you dont!
I just had to do it. I’ve just gone and filled up at a BP. Cost me $70. I am now happy in the knowledge that within six months I can be earning the exact same income as the ceo of BP. Quick, get on the BP conference call and buy you ticket to financial freedom. Petrol and diesel… everyone has to have it… a 50 billion dollar a year industry..Hurry, hurry, hurry…..roll up, roll up
David, these forums are the only way the truth can get out there to stop more people signing up with this scam. Liberty League covers up a lot on the internet. Negative but factual comments are removed from youtube videos, yahoo answers etc. Mr Tony Rush is constantly moderating discussions on Liberty League Life. Liberty League was removed from Wikipedia as there was factual information added which did not look good for the company, Mr Hamburger kept changing them so wikipedia got pissed off and removed LLI altogether! Oz has done some great research and is factual. I am surprised that any LLIERS are on here at all because they are supposed to ignore the negative on the internet and do a media fast. Oz is ranking on the first page of google for Australia so the word will get around.
Apart from annoying vague sales ads on tv I dislike the fact that Australian’s are ripping off other Australian’s. Just because LLI offers pseudo-products doesn’t mean it isn’t still a pyramid scheme/MLM affair.
Fact: If everyone tommorow right around the world joined LLI nobody would make any money because there’d be nobody working in real jobs to pay everyone’s salaries! The LLI model only works while there’s still people signing up desperate to make a buck on the promise of the top 3% of earners in the company.
As for making money, the difference between LLI and all the other scams out and working for say BHP is that by working for bhp I am guaranteed a wage by law for my work. I cannot go work for BHP under false promises and earn nothing after six months, it’s illegal.
I’ve never disputed LLI’s top earners make decent salaries, I’ve already covered why they do and why if you are a new associate you won’t ever reach that level. Like any of these pyramid schemes/MLM’s those who bring the business to a new market first reap the rewards at the expense of all the other plebs who sign up wanting to earn the same.
My own income is irrelevant, I’m not trying to sell you a business model solely based off what I earn personally. I work 80 hours a fortnight and work on BehindMLM in my spare time as a hobby. It’s something I enjoy doing.
If you’re interested in a topic you’re going to have to do research, just because I’ve done my homework before writing about LLI doesn’t mean I’m not succesful myself in what I do.
So… you’re not with Liberty League yet you know just off the top of your head how much the personal development industry is allegedly worth worldwide. You also appear to be highly interested in comparing my earnings to your scammy mc scam scam business leaders because apparently that’s going to prove something.
Right, so if it’s not Liberty League which alternative scam MLM company selling personal development products do you work for again?
Speaking of experience I came across an interesting leaflet on Sue and Jerry Smart (the couple Cara mentioned allegedly earnt $200,000 in June). It’s an Amway newsletter and it’s dated Dec 2007, just under two years ago.
Look who’s on page 13:
So they were involved with Amway at one point… I wonder what happened there? I guess trying to make it in Amway after it was well established in Australia paled in comparison to joining a LLI at the top of the pyramid as it entered the Australian market.
No I dont work for LLI,and I hate being scammed as much as the next person.I tried Maverick money makers and lost out,maybe you should pick on them too.The BHP thing?Well here is the reality.Whether you are paid a wage or not if you dont go to work you dont get paid! Period! Commission or wages makes no difference.However if you work really hard for say BHP for 10 years how much of a salary do you think you will end up with?Self employed people take a chance,just ask Donald Trump,Richard Branson who all started broke but with a dream.I feel sorry for the lady or people who lost 1000″s of dollars with LL,but instead of blaming them perhaps the job wasnt right for them?Perhaps they didnt do their research?LL approached me,and after looking at their products and compensation plan I said no.Any online business is hard work and requires time and money.What about someone who buys a McDonalds or Subway franchise for $250,000+?Then only to have another store open 2 kms down the road?Who wants to make sandwiches for 10years just to pay off a huge bank loan.The fact is yes there are plenty of Scams out there but sometimes you need to look at the big picture.I spent 5 years working for an ungrateful boss making him millions and where did that get me?I say if you do your research and have the right attitude it can and will make a difference.How many people do you know who invested in Super or the share market?What happened to them last year?I dont see any reports on their losses.As far as I am concerned shares are a scam,just ask the millions who lost out,or the retirees who now have to return to work because their super got eaten up?Now thats a scam!! And no I dont work for LL in fact i think the first product beyond freedom is way overpriced and lacks substance,and stop picking on amway to after all 50years in business means something right?
I rest my case…
If I work for BHP, or McDonalds or Subway for 10 years I’ll have guaranteed $xxx,xxx salary in my bank account. If I work for LLI for 10 years, put in the effort, tell myself I’m a superstar, inject happy medicine to keep up my unnatural positivism up then there’s no guarantee I will have anything in my bank account.
Imagine if every business ran on the premise that 85% of employees would make $35,000 or less no matter how much work you put in or how long you worked for them for.
McDonalds and Subway do fine <2km within eachother in metropolitan Melbourne. When you apply for a franchise the company itself will stop you opening up the same store next to an existing franchisee owner because they don't want their brand to fail.
There's nothing stopping two LLI associates living as neighbours trying to compete for the same local marketshare. The upline associate won't give a damn so long as they get their initial passed up sales.
Attitude and research aren't guarantees to do well in Liberty League, despite them telling you this. It is statistically exponentially harder to make it in the business as time goes on because the people who got in first have been promoting it and MLM schemes generally have a low response rate. That means to be succesfull you've got to expose a lot of people to your advertising, hence the tv campaigns etc. As a new associate you can have the best attitude in the world but if the top of the pyramid has already milked your area you are not going to get the sales. Period.
I'm not a big fan of the sharemarket myself. It's worth noting that the retirees who invested in it did so out of choice and were fully aware it was a high risk investment compared to their other options. High risk works both ways so I have absolutely no sympathy for them if their super crashed.
I think the fundamental difference between the likes of Liberty League and any other business opportunity/share investment or franchise is historical performance. You have an 85% chance of failure with Liberty League but this is not something that is remotely touched upon in all their advertising and promotions. Historical fact… 85% of members will not even cover their costs. Imagine if you had an 85% failure rate with all the other traditional ‘investments’….no, neither can I.
David seems to have an indepth knowledge of the Beyond Freedom programme… is it available in the bookshops? As far as I can tell the only access to it is from becoming an associate…. the plot thickens!!
David looks at U-Tube Martin and everyone,I mean everyone knows about LL products from there.U-Tube the worlds information just a click away.lol
I’m not meaning to have a go at you David but you’re not making much sense there.
My husband and I were involved with LL from 2004-2006. We made a grand total of $1000! We treated this biz like it was our religion. We did everything under the sun to make this work. We were not lazy about this. We followed their “proven system” to a tee! There are a few lawsuits here in the us. Just give it time and there will be some in australia too.
David, I’m one of those who lost 1000’s with LLI and yes I do blame them, as well as myself. I blame myself for not doing enough research and for too easily buying into the hope they were selling me. That is why I am very glad there are sites like this out there so I can share my story and stop others buying into the false hope. The easier it is for people to know the real figures, the better.
I wouldn’t sell a product that was known to fail 85% of the time, and I won’t continue to promote a business opportunity that is known to fail 85% of the time. I did follow their system, I did the 90-day personal development program, I followed their marketing system (I advertised, I placed people on the calls, I did 3-ways), and it didn’t work. I didn’t make 6 figures or 400K, I lost thousands, as most people do. Now the glare of the false hope has dimmed and I can see the reality of what they are offering and what most people are actually achieving more clearly, I’m not prepared to sit back and let the 3% making 6 or 7 figures do so at the expense of the 85%.
For a company that is suppose to be about creating financial freedom and emotional well-being, I can’t see how they (the company and associates) can in good conscience promote the opportunity when they know 85% of people won’t be a success in the business. And this is where I feel good about myself, I have a level of integrity that means I won’t try and sign up others by promoting a benefit (a six figure income, or the 400K that is commonly used in ads here) that statistics show most people won’t achieve.
What really pisses me off about LLI is that they promote financial freedom yet many people are coming out of the business in a much worse financial position, as LLI are very big on encouraging associates to do whatever it takes to buy the products… sell your possessions, borrow from family and friends, use credit. And they seek to get as much money as possible as early as possible by focusing the so called trainings on why its so important to ‘invest’ in the products, ie get the money off them asap before they’ve had a chance to experience the reality.
As for achieving emotional well-being… well it doesn’t tend to go hand in hand with being in debt and losing 1000’s.
So that is why I’m happy to give LLI such a hammering, and will support others committed to exposing the truth of the LLI opportunity!
Exactly how I look at it Jenny, I can tell that you are someone who is speaking from the heart about your experience. I too blame myself as well as LLI. Liberty League will go to great lengths to stop this discussion to prevent people finding out the truth. Congratulations to Oz for starting this, there are not many sites like this that are purely to share experiences without trying to flog off another work from home scam.
Seems there is a bit of ‘wiping the slate’ going on over at Liberty League Life. Members have been told to watch what they are putting in their posts so as not to come across as being negative… as one member puts it “If my prospects reads this first, they’ll never sign up”
Two posts have been closed to discussion in the last few days… one on a poor sod looking to offload tickets to a conference, questioning whether she can get a refund… sorry,refer to head office, discussion closed.
The other one was looking for ways to come up with 25k .. sorry, speak to your advisor privately, discussion closed.
Came across another few posts from members saying how long they’ve been in the business and how much they’ve made so far… one has been there five months, has put heaps of leads through their system and has signed up one person for $49. I suppose she could technically make $99,951 in the next month to achieve her ‘six figure income in six months’!!
A question for all you ex or current Liberty League members… what do you get for your $49? I’m very tempted to join just to gain some idea of what rubbish is being relayed to members.Do you get access to much info at this level or is it reserved for a higher entry level?
Keep posting guys as that’s the best way to keep this thread and threads like it alive.
The only thing you get for $49 is one month of your LL website. I did get a few people started at that level, but they never went anywhere.
Yes, it does qualify you to sell the BF. But, if you don’t purchase the BF yourself, you will need to sell five before you can make money. If you buy the BF, you only need to sell two.
Doesn’t the $49 qualify you to start selling Beyond Freedom too?
The scary thing about all this is there is hundreds (if not thousands) of MLM companies out there. LLI is not the only MLM that is causing people to fork over thousands of dollars for nothing.
I feel sorry for the everyday Mums and Dads who get approached to make millions of dollars and have the lifestyle of their choice, yet fail miserably at these marketing schemes, whilst losing friends, money and time.
There are so many reasons not to join a MLM company, the more exposure these companies get on their negatives the better. Keep it up Oz.
I did it!
I filled in the form on one of the Liberty League ‘cloned’ websites.
I got a phone call within the hour from a lady, actually a lovely lady who was very professional and wellspoken. I wasn’t totally sure what I was expecting but I probably imagined a hard sell approach from her.
Not at all.
She asked me a few questions regarding my current situation, why I was looking to start my own business,what my ideal income would be, what my goals were for the future etc..
I asked her a couple of questions mainly relating to the income claims from her website and in fairness, she was honest with me, saying that she herself was only in the business six weeks and was still in training to become a Freedom Advisor(??)However she did say that her own Advisor was a six figure earner and that in the event all went to plan, this Advisor would be my mentor.
I asked what I would be doing with the business and she said that I’d be doing exactly what she was doing now, qualifying people for the next step. She went on to say that everything would be explained better if I qualified for the next step.
I did my best not to come across as being skeptical and obviously it worked as I have been invited to ‘attend’ a live business presentation overview by conference call tomorrow evening.
I was given a choice of several calls either hosted from the US or from Australia. I chose an Aussie call. I have to dial a toll free number, enter an access code and then a password to get on the call. Apparently its a question and answer format so it should be a bit of a laugh!!
I shall keep you all posted.
Ha, see Martin they are sucking you in all ready with their lovely lady who was all interested in you. First step – tick!! Be very careful… lock up your credit card now.
The ‘interview’ you went through is to make sure that you are ‘positive’ enough to put on the conference call as they don’t want people with ‘negative’ energy on it. If you had been skeptical, they would have given you a recorded call number or a website presentation instead so you didn’t infect the other prospects.
The conference call is mainly you listening to a spiel… word for word the same each time, except for testimonials from other associates. I could probably even guess who they will ‘randomly’ pick out from the associates, as they are the same few each time… got to make sure they get the ‘right’ testimonial of course. At the end there will be a couple of minutes for questions and that is all. Make sure you jump out straight away, loud and clear if you want to get a chance to ask something… ooh I’d love to be listening in. Just remember…. DON’T JOIN no matter how lovely they are!!
No danger of me joining, though I am tempted to go for the $49 job just to see what its all about first hand.
No, this is purely research only but you are right, the phone call was very very enticing .. the script is extremely well written (though it is obviously a script) and the lady was/seemed genuinely interested in ‘helping’ better my current situation. She/they certainly know all the right buttons to push and I can easily see how people are sucked in, as you say.
Any thoughts on a question I should be asking??
Sorry Oz, we crossed lines… If I can access the call via my pc I might be able to record it. I’ll have to have a chat to the technical dept.. the kids!!
Stay strong Martin, stay strong. Seriously though, for $49 you will get access to the ‘back office’ which includes some training info and recorded calls, terms and conditions etc so it would give you more insight into their practises. Can’t be sure exactly as when I complained about something they cancelled my associateship and cut off my access to the site!
You do have to pay more to get access to the full communication centre, which is the full back office website, and you have to pay $99 for 3 months access to conferencing calls to listen to all the live training calls and business overview calls. So basically without paying the extra you can’t run your business.
As for questions… something about what % of associates make over $13,000… or maybe how many associates become inactive in their first year or two as only active associates are even counted in their figures which of course doesn’t include me. Oh you could ask about retailing the products, as no one does that and it is the products that make them a legal operation. If they don’t have an answer for you, they’ll suggest you ‘get back in touch with the person who put you on the call’.
One good thing I’ve found out is that Seek seems to have kicked them off as I just had a look and only found 1 ad. Seek used to be a really big advertising site for them, and how I found them… associates would advertise in the job categories but not any more!
Enjoy the call… I’ve thought about getting back on them myself to have some fun.
Ask if the market is saturated, as you have noticed lots of similar ads. They will tell you that saturation does not exist. Total crap.
Also ask them if they are a front for scientology, see copy of a post i found on reviewpedia.com
The Liberty League “Inner Circle” (most EMC members) and the new owner Shane Krider are Scientologists seeking to climb “thetan” OT levels and obtain OT VIII: Truth Revealed.
Brent Payne and wife (Julia Payne) sold their share to Shane Krider for various reasons, but one main speculation is due to the fact that Shane Krider is only allowing the top trainers of Liberty League International to be trainers if they are trained, pay money, & practice Scientology communication teachings at the L Ron Hubbard Institute.
Brent Payne’s sister Leslie decided to join Life Path Inc. another personal development Home Business due to the fact that she herself (an EMC member) did not want to become a Scientologist and lead an organization of people down the road of Scientology.
Liberty League’s underground movement with people like Shannon Lavenia, John Lavenia, Gene Braxton, Lisa Molina, Bob Molina, Tony Rush, Jessica Rush, Kevin Knecht, Don Silver, Carla Keyser, Debbie Ruston, Michele Krider, Shane Krider, Andy Grant, Sharon Gist, and many many others politically connected to LLI’s underground movement have decided to move towards Scientology as their basis for all teachings in communication and enlightenment.
Most of the people mentioned above with the exception of Gene Braxton, Debbie Ruston, Krider & the Lavenia’s make an average of $5k per month…
– You ever see their name on the leader board
In fact once exposed to scientologies’ teaching these LLI members are being called by representatives of L Ron Hubbard’s institute in L.A. to join and give money to scientology to become a member.
ALL LLI ASSOCIATES SHOULD BE ADVISED THAT SCIENTOLOGY IS THE BASIS BEHIND LIBERTY LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL.
If you are ok with this fine, but at least you are aware that you are being led down a path of Scientology.
SHANE KRIDER IS HIGH AND RISING ON THE SCIENTOLOGY TOTEM POLE.
All or most of the “inner circle” EMC have moved to L.A. to practice scientology.
Liberty League Is NOW a scientology front. It was not when Brent Payne was involved, but now it is!
IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, you are leading people down a path that is not righteous.
If you are a christian, it is your job to lead people towards Jesus Christ and not away from Christ.
You are going into a legit business that has less than a .05% success rate in the United States.
The people you see on the leader board are in Australia and a few in the United States and Canada.
Go to http://www.google.au.com and type in Liberty League
Go to http://www.google.com and type in Liberty league
Whether you like it or not…the masses are affected by media and what others say.
So when you attempt to sell a business you want to have a good track record…
It is enough to have to learn all that is involved in operating and marketing a business, much less competing with an 800lb gorilla on your back (negativity online). Now put that and scientology together you have one hell of a sales job to do…
Some can do it, but they better be the savviest of savvy at manipulation, guilt tripping, brain washing, and scientology communication.
Shane Krider realized that people were not being successful at LLI so he is influencing everyone he can at LLI to go through communication training at the L Ron Hubbard Institute to learn effective communication skills.
If you are a christian and belief in JESUS CHRIST, you should humbly lick your wounds, take what you have learned pack your bags and head into a different company or different way to make money.
The Truth Will Set You Free.
What You Have Just Read Is Truth and none of the EMC or Shane will deny it.
On Liberty League Life there are posts relating to the advertising mediums that no longer accept adds. Facebook, Seek and Career One are seemingly out of bounds at the moment. Hopefully it will be only a matter of time before they are banned everywhere. For some reason they are not allowed to advertise in the Northern Territory… does anyone know the reason why?
Rod AKA The Truth
Might ask them about TV saturation too!
ask if you join the six figure chicks, or
ask about the high cost of tv advertising and that you don’t think you could afford it, or
ask whether putting flyers on cars and signs on telegraph poles is really in keeping with earning a six figure income
I found Anan’s trail of business cards at Kona Airport on the Big Island Hawaii on the mirrors in the toilets, by the way he and the newly crowned emc members on board all travelled economy class.
Don’t know if Rods post regarding the Scientology aspect of this whole sorry group has any substance… if it has, then the shit has definitely hit the fan!!
A quick google search and I’ve come across a couple of other similar postings…. interesting… very interesting.
Squeaky bum time if you’re depending on Liberty League for a living!
I reckon my former advisor will be calling me soon!!!! I am still an associate and receiving emails from him. Seeing how long before I get disqualified. He is still trying to keep me in the business via email, telling me to get to Super Saturday on the Gold Coast this month and bring some people along, huge announcement going to turn the business around Blah Blah Blah. This Super Saturday is a major recruitment session plugged as a training and masterminding session. It brainwashes new associates to step up and purchase conference tickets. We fell for it along with 900 odd in Sydney last September. This one is going to be bigger.
Martin, you gotta ask about the Scientology link… or at least about why Brent Payne is no longer taking an active role in the business. I really think I’m going to have to become a prospect again to get on the calls and ask some fun questions.
Does anyone know if there is a public business presentation along with the Super Saturday? Might be a good place for some alternative leaflet drops.
What have you got in mind Jenny??… I’m on the Gold Coast… might be able to give you a hand.
Dont think I’m brave enough to ask about the Scientology thing..I’d probably give them all heart attacks!!
Here are the details for the Supercharged Saturday
Ripoff ticket price just like the companys’ products
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009
Time: 8:00am to 8:00pm (approximate)
Location: RACV Royal Pines Resort – Royal Benowa Ballroom
Ross Street, Ashmore
Ticket Price: $349.00 USD
Meet & Greet: Friday, August 28
Hydrate Bar (located at the resort)
from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
Oh I’m sure I can think of something…
Its only been the last week that my new hobby has become finding all avenues possible to spread my story of how I lost thousands in LLI, so I’ll have to give it some thought. Maybe Rod and I need to talk about some publicity…
Now its off to bed, I have an appointment with a financial counsellor tomorrow to see just how I should handle my LLI credit card debt… bankruptcy a distinct possibility.
It’s worth noting that when they talk about ‘a few hours work each day’, doing these calls is part of what they’re talking about.
Any chance you can record the call? 🙂
Haha even I’m calling bullshit on that conspiracy theory!
If this is true it seems a little odd. I would have thought if the ACCC ruled them technically not a pyramid scheme then this would have been nationally binding. Sites like Seek et al. choose not to run their ads as a matter of business priniciple, not because of any legal compliance.
If the NT has some kind of seperate law prohibiting LLI explicitly or MLM in general I couldn’t seem to find anything online about it.
As an aside this evening associates Anan and Linda Lashin (highway2wealth.info) attempted to leave a spam comment on this post. It was just a blunt one sentence sales pitch along the lines of ‘Contact us and make lots of money!’ and then a 1800 number.
Oh and if you visit the site be warned: Linda suffers from rising inflection syndrome and the audio sales pitch will make your ears bleed.
Guess we can add them to the LLI Australia list.
A non-stop 12 hour conference? What the hell drugs are these people on?
I wonder if the Six Figure Chicks has any suggestions on how Rod may be able to save losing his house or perhaps how Jenny might pay off her large debt?
It facinates me that she would have an issue with having a call recorded …. is there something to hide?
I’m glad to hear we are becoming a nuisance and let’s hope its having an impact on sign ups into LLI.
Now I’m off to see whether bankruptcy is the best way of dealing with the credit card debt I have after my experience with LLI.
Your right Oz, it isn’t against the law to record or monitor a telephone conversation with prior consent.
The Monday night dialling for dollars call at 6pm here in Australia is a training call where hundreds of LLI associates listen to “leaders” such as Six Figure Chicks calling prospects. They do not announce to the prospect that they are being monitored or recorded for training purposes. Totally in breach of the Telecommunications Act 1997.
Further to Oz mentioning recording a Liberty League conference call… I found a link to one but it is from the UK.
I received another email this morning from Six Figure Chicks alleging that I plan to phone her and record the conversation threatening her lawyers and the Australian Federal Police (lol) onto me.
Apparently I’m being ‘watched from the inside”. The inside of what I’m not too sure of seeing as this is a publicly accessible site but I digress.
I don’t have any intention of contacting Six Figure Chicks by phone but just a note on the recording for some of you, it isn’t illegal to record a phone conversation but you do need to get permission from the parties involved prior to doing so.
Looks Like Liberty League is going Door to Door
(but of course no selling, telling or explaining – just hand out DVD’s)
Just listened to the sales process – step 3, and wow they’ve changed the way they do things… you only have to work 1 day a week now!
But they do contradict themselves, first they say they will hire and train a sales team, then they say they will train you to hire and train your sales team.
So if everyone who joins up then hires a sales team, there is going to be an awful lot of door knocking going on… I think I’m going to be frightened of opening my door!
Well, It was a tad anti-climatic in the end but I went on the business overview call earlier this evening. If anybody wants to know what went on.. just listen to the recorded UK version from an earlier post… its the EXACT same.. word for word! The people are obviously different but the scripts are exactly alike. Even the testimonials are strikingly similar … I would suggest that they are possibly variations of a selection of scripts but I could be wrong. The question time at the end was a wee bit strange.. I had a couple prepared and had myself set to come in and ask but I was beaten to the first slot by a person who asked who the author of the Beyond Freedom programme was…
the answer was pretty vague really as the host said that there were several leaders in the self development industry involved in putting it together… some names were mentioned that I’ve never heard of though I did recognise the Kirder/Payne combination.
Anyway that was it!! They had to close as they were out of time…. one lousy question….What was that all about??
One thing that is glaringly obvious from the live call is that every part of the business is portrayed to be so simple and easy that a monkey could do it. As the host said…
You place an add
You make the call
You pocket the money!
Well we all know from this and other forums that this is far from the truth so in reality the whole call thing is a big con job.
If there were oscars for telemarketing, the Liberty League people on the calls would clean up at the awards night!
I would expect a follow up from the lady I first spoke to tomorrow so I will update with news of that.
Martin, I think they restrict the live questions section as a way of protecting themselves from the questions they don’t want to answer.
I will predict on your follow up call that you’ll be asked to rate you’re interest on a scale of 1 to 10, and if you say 7 or above you’ll be invited to take part in a 3-way call with one of the ‘leaders’ in the business where you can get your questions answered… as long as they are the right questions of course.
If on the follow up call you say you’re less than a 7 out of 10, they will take the opportunity away from you, saying something along the lines of not wanting to waste their time on someone who isn’t able to see the amazing opportunity.
See, they don’t do a hard sell like you’d expect… instead they use more subtle but very successful techniques.
Just noticed that the last LLI ad I can find on Seek has been removed… now I wonder if that is because I reported it.
Now I’m busy on Gumtree report the ads there… seems my work is never done.
I look forward to our first planning meeting!!
Yep… sounds like fun!!
Email me and we can go from there.
“You don’t telemarket, door knock, drop fliers. We hire the right people to do this for you.”
Who are the monkeys they have doing their dirty work for them??
I would seriously like to help you in your campaign against this scummy mob. Oz has my email address which I will get him to forward to you, with your permission of course!!
We could put our heads together to make a concerted effort to become a couple of major nuisances. Maybe we could get some others on board too!
I just recently found this site. I am in the us. I was with LL for over 18 months. I never made a single sale! I spent close to 18k just in ads and marketing. I did this behind my husbands back. I got credit cards in mine and his name. I figured he woulnd’t mind because I was planning on making at least 20k per month in my first 6 to 12 months doing this biz. I called and called and called tons of people and got a lot of leads from my ads. Most people said the cost of the products were just too much or it sounded like a scam. Our phone was ringing off the hook from credit card collection agencies. I finally had to fess up to my husband. He was not too mad, but he wasen’t pleased either. We have since had to file bankruptcy. I know what I lost was just a drop in the bucket compared to what others have spent. I’m just happy my husband has forgiven me and we are still married.
I am lodging a complaint at careerone.com.au, truelocal.com.au and mycareer.com.au about the LLI ads that are listed.
Ok… Having slept little overnight due to Jenny implanting thoughts of a threeway with some six figure chicks …. hey, I’m a guy!!…I didn’t have to wait long for the ‘follow up call’ this morning.
Kudos to Jenny for getting it right. The first question.. ‘On a scale of 1-10 how do you rate what you’ve heard so far?’
Being prepared for this, I rated at 8, as I wanted to keep the interest alive in the hope of getting a few questions answered by the caller, rather than her hanging up.
Straight away, I was asked if I would go to a three way call with her advisor, which I declined, saying that I was about to go into a meeting for the next few hours. Then I said I would only go on the call if I could get a few simple questions answered and I guess, rather than lose ‘the sale’, she agreed to help me as best as she could.
I asked two questions the first being how much money she makes doing this… The answer…’At the moment I’m on target for a six figure income’ I said that was pretty good seeing as she was only at it six weeks…. a nervous giggle was all I got.
Second question was if I purchased the freedom product, what would happen if I didn’t like it… what refund policy was there? As far as she was aware, no one had ever returned the product!! The refund policy was ten days from shipping.
Anyway, outside of the usual chit chat that basically was the conversation. I have to email her a suitable time for a three way link with her advisor and in the meantime she is emailing me a start-up pack or kit(??), and a link to her Liberty website.
I think the key with their system is getting people off of the business overview call and on to a three way as fast as possible,thats where I would think that the hard sell occurs. Not letting you have time to research or sort of ‘think’ about what you’re doing is their best chance of grabbing you. To sum up the experience so far, tread slowly and carefully if you are looking at it.. I, for one, wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole but Im practical enough to know that people will want to make up their own minds. Spend time on libertyleaguelife and you will see that the majority on there are making very little money
and most seem to dissappear quietly after a few enthusiastic posts.
Ok.. better send an email and put this lady out of her misery… I’ve no hankering for a three way today!!
Wow Michelle… I just saw the post. I guess if anything good has come of it all it is the fact that you know you are in a very strong marriage. Take care.
I hid it from my husband because I’ve done other “work at home” type things and just lost money. I knew if I pitched LL, he’d say it was a scam too. I really truly believed I’d make a “six figure” income with LL. I was so brainwashed. LL is banned in the state of South Dakota. It’s sad because I know a few people still with LL, and they have lost way more than I did. They all say that 2009 is going to be the year things turn around. We shall see!
Martin, I didn’t sleep much either… but I was thinking of you… and the that I should have told you about the responses to any income questions. The standard answer if you haven’t made any or much money is “I’m on track to make a six figure income”… translated that means “I still believe in the 6 figure hype, or I want to pretend to you that I do so you’ll join and I’ll make back some of the money I lost.”
In a 3-way, if you show any hesitation or ask skeptical sounding questions, the advisor will probably say something like this “look Martin I thought you were serious about creating financial freedom and achieving your goals, am I right about that? I don’t have time to waste if that isn’t you.”
Michelle, congratulations on choosing the right husband, even if you chose the wrong business opportunity. I understand how you made your decision to get involved without telling your husband. LLI praise you on being positive and taking action, and they encourage you not to talk to others who won’t understand as they haven’t seen the info you’ve seen.
Sure I was taken in and I don’t want people to judge me as naive and stupid, but I think a lot of people don’t understand how good the whole pitch is. The standard websites say you shouldn’t expect to get rich without working, they surprise you by using a soft sell and taking the opportunity away from you if you hesitate, and they praise you for being an action taker who doesn’t listen to negativity… And then when you join they bombard you with positive stories to keep you onboard past any refund dates.
Then when they have your money, the support decreases, and if you complain, you’re cut off and blamed for not having the right mindset.
Their ads say the system is so simple it works for anyone prepared to do the work, but if you say you’ve done the work and not achieved the same results as they promote, they make it clear that of course it’s not the system that isn’t working, its you and your negativity that is the cause!
I am so sorry to hear what happened Michelle. Your post really highlights a very important point, The financial devestation is bad enough, but what about the relationships affected with partner/spouse, children, parents and friends. Ironically the last 12 months working from home has been harder than working a 50 hour week, arguments with the wife, not as much attention paid to my 2 young children. I was at home but “not there” so focussed on the business (3-5 hours a day is total BS). Luckily our relationship is strong and we have each other and the kids, the most important thing. Ironically LLI portray this time freedom and family focus. YEH RIGHT.
Hey there Michelle and welcome to the discussion. I’m sorry to hear you lost 18 thousand but am glad to hear LLI didn’t cost you your marriage.
I’m not having a go at you but I think the fact that you felt you had to hide Liberty League from your husband speaks volumes about type of business it is. I mean how many other types of businesses do people join and feel that they need to hide their employment from their families until they are successful?
Thanks for taking the time to share your sign up experience Martin. It really is kind of amusing to see the ‘proven system that works’ really is a canned almost automated screening process.
For them to say you can work this biz a few hours a day is total BS!! There is no way you can generate enough leads. I did find that LL lifestyle page and read through a lot. If you look at some of the members pages, a lot are not in LL anymore. The link to their site is broken, or it goes to a different biz. On the fourm, some are asking for loans. I’m just waiting for another lawsuit to hit them.
This latest Liberty League press release is total propaganda.
I cannot believe that this company can post these BS “press releases” all over the internet and talk total rubbish. WHAT ABOUT THE BANKRUPTCIES AND FORCLOSURES DUE TO LIBERTY LEAGUE SHANE.
Just looked at the article and noticed the ‘digg it’ link on the bottom. If someone does that can we leave comments on the bottom… like how because of LLI I’m considering bankruptcy. I’ve never used digg it and don’t want to do it if its going to give them publicity without the shame factor.
Google Liberty League and the same press release is under news results for Liberty League and allows you to add comments at the bottom. I am sure they will be moderated.
I read that article. Just wondering how many of those people there were new to LL? I bet over half of them have only been with LL a short time.
Just posted a comment after the press release so hope it gets published and hope others will do the same… then we’ll see the real link between Liberty League and bankruptcy.
Michelle, there appears to be ‘core groups’ of hardline Liberty League Associates in each country they operate in. In Australia the ‘core’ appears to be led by Rachel Oliver with several other ex Herbalife and Amway reps making up the team. Rarely do you hear them stating that they have come from an allready established industry base straight into Liberty League.
Thousands of Aussie mums and Dads out there are being duped into thinking that they can ‘plug directly into the system’ and can start earning money straight away… its just not going to happen.
I keep saying this…. Anyone looking at Liberty League…Do not buy in immediately.
If its something you really want to do, sign up at the $49 level and access the ‘real information’.
I’ve just spoken to ACCC Scam Alert and made an official complaint about why in my opinion Liberty League fits their definition of an illegal pyramid scheme… would be the overpriced products that are difficult to sell, and the fact recruitment is the main aim.
They have advised to get as many people as possible who have lost money to also call them, as well as ASIC. Please, please do this if you have looked into the business and think it is wrong, or you are like me and have joined and have a personal experience of losing money.
The two numbers are:
ACCC Scam Alert 1300 302 502
ASIC 1300 300 630
They want company names to associate with the complaint… I gave them Liberty League as well as Six Figure Chicks and Rachel Oliver Enterprises
ASIC couldn’t find Liberty League as being registered with ASIC, although the ACCC said they were… if anyone knows how to find Liberty Leagues Australian ACN or if you talk to ACCC and they look them up and find it, let me know so I can add it to my complaint.
Please share if you make a call so we know action is being taken.
A friend of mine asked me to check out this forum (or whatever you call it), for a bit of a giggle. After reviewing the articles, I only have one question: how do you people find the time to write all this stuff? Wow! Don’t you have productive lives to lead? Maybe not.
To put it into perspective, I joined Liberty League in June 2008. I bought their home study program – $US1,495. I thought it was expensive but I was interested in the subject matter.
After about a month I decided not to do the business for various reasons. But I kept the product and unlike the whingers, I actually used it. In fact I am about to do another 90 day refresher, and am looking forward to it.
I have found the product to be very helpful. It gave me clarity and purpose at a difficult stage in my life. Sure I could have gotten much of the hard info out of books etc, but that misses the point. When you pay top dollar for something you tend to respect it more and make the commitment to ensure it works. That’s the way I look at it anyway.
People who don’t take this approach, well, I guess they’ll continue to have their pity parties, and congregate with like minded people (who can be found at this forum). It may give them some comfort, but what a waste of negative energy for people who refuse to take responsibility for their lives.
Finally, someone said that LL was saturated in Brisbane. Really? Proof? I would hazard a guess that 95%+ of people in Brisbane have never heard of the company.
If you set yourself up to be an authority on something, I suggest you cut down on the hyperbole, emotion, and deception. Then you’ll have more credibility with discerning, thinking people.
Yes Martin I am putting a lot of time into stopping others being duped by Liberty League. And to be honest, I would rather move on to other more positive things, but I am committed to opening other’s eyes to the reality of this business opportunity. And I know that you get what you focus on, which is great as I’m focused on bringing down the Liberty League pyramid.
I invested $15,000 into the business opportunity, so I did take it seriously, and I applied the 3-step system which they are so keep to promote as being so simple anyone can do it. And it didn’t work, so obviously anyone can’t do it.
Martin Gowers, We need clarification on the various reasons why you didn’t join the business as mentioned by Oz.
I to, like Jenny, are putting a great deal of time and effort into this forum to get the word out there, and it seems to be working, thanks for your post.
Yet another post in support of LLI that doesn’t explain or offer any sort of rebuttal.
WHY didn’t you join the business?
HOW is the product very helpful?
Your guess of 95%+ of Brisbane having never heard of LLI assumes 100% of Brisbane is a valid marketplace. I think you’ll fnd most people will run away screaming (or will get screened out of the ‘prospect’ and/or conference calls for asking questions), from businesses like this of their own accord.
For the rest there’s information put out there by people such as myself which to date has not been challenged with hard facts by anyone who supports LLI’s business model.
There’s a pattern developing here for people commenting in support of Liberty League:
‘lol you’re all wrong, Liberty League is GREAT! kbyenow.’
Vague posts like this do nothing to instill confidence or address the many concerns raised in these articles.
I would suggest that after one month, Martin Gowers had no choice but to keep the Beyond Freedom Lucky Bag as the refund policy is only valid for ten days.
Good to see his post though.. comes from a totally different perspective.
Jenny, let me know if you still need ACNs or any other sniffing-out done.
You seem to be doing a pretty good job all by ur lonesome SB, but I’m good at finding stuff if u ever come up short.
Just finished reading this after seeing one of those companies advertise, (again), on Foxtel and curiosity finally got the better of me.
Just as I thought, they’re selling nothing.
Finding ABN’s is a simple process, (as I discovered when I had need a year ago), and just requires going to ABNLookup, (or type Australian business numbers in google). Type in company name and a whole list appears.
I think this is a fantastic post and even though I’ve not suffered the misfortune of losing money to these schemes, I would dearly love to see them banned from our society.
To everyone on this post, a heartfelt thank you.
I(like Saffy) have just spent over two hours reading these posts after seeing the ads on Foxtel and have been encouraged to do some research. In all honesty I have not researched as much as I should have, Cara, (if you’re still there) but I feel I need go no further.
Without going into too much detail, I myself am a trainer in personal development. I train at risk youth to develop a life of properity, purpose and (to quote Martin Gowers)”A clarity and purpose at a difficult stage in my life”.
Suffice to say, I too have been looking for alternate ways to improve my income, lifestyle, blah,blah,blah which brought me here. I comment on this post for two reasons.
1. To all those involved in LLI, (which until now could have been me) I fail to understand why investing in personal development results in 97% of it’s ‘investors’ losing that which is most personal(home,car,mariage,family, etc).This seems to be, in my opinion, a shallow investment in personal development if money is the only thing that makes you happy,
2. I feel indebted to people like yourselves who, through personal experience or personal opinion, have prevented me from error.
Oz – thank you for being so aware, diligent, outspoken and honest(and most likely for saving me from bankrupcy).
Martin – thank you for your courage and audacity to investigate.
Michelle – Thank you for your honest. My heartfelt sympathy for your misfortune yet at the same time I agree with Jenny, hang on to that husband of yours and move on. You deserve it.
Martin Gowers – thank you for your comments. This forum might be ‘a bit of a giggle’ to you and lets hope that you have reached your six figure income by ‘congregate with like minded people’ but to me this forum has, in your own words, encouraged me to take responsibility not to be fooled by false security and I have not seen any evidence of anyone ‘paying top dollar’ for the truth or ‘setting themselves up to be an authority’ when they they are offering advice through research or personal experience.
In my opinion for those whose choose to be dictated to live their lives by others and be controlled by materialism is most definitely ‘a waste of negative energy for people who refuse to take responsibility for their lives’.
Finally, Jenny – Who has touched my heart. you are , in no way naive or stupid, indeed, an ispiration and have opened my eyes. So yes, this IS making an impact. I thank you.
Oz – as most of these posts seem to be coming to you from the eastern states be assured that you now have, at least, one supporter in WA. Once again, thank you for your insight.
Great post Jim. Yes it is a little ironic that this personal development company is ruining so many peoples lives. Seeing people like you steer clear of them through what you read here makes everything worthwhile… spread the word Jim!
Had an email from careermums… they’re in the process of pulling all Liberty League types adds due to receiving a steady stream of complaints!! It’s working guys… Keep it up!
Thanks for the kind words Jim, getting the word out there is exactly what it’s all about.
Thanks Jim for the kind words, it is nice to know there are a lot of people out there who truly care about others. As Martin and Oz said, getting the word out there is why we are here on the forums daily. Like you I was interested in LLI because it is in the personal development industry and I like helping people improve their lives, and it didn’t take long to work out that is the opposite effect LLI has for many. So now, if I can help others by stopping them making the same mistake as me, it is a good outcome 🙂
Thanks for sharing Jim. It is great to hear your story, and the fact that this site has helped you. I wish Oz was around when i responded to an LLI ad last year.
Finally there is some truthful information available online which has been largely censored up until now.
Oz, keep up the quality research!
I have been reading your comments throughout this site and I would love to connect with you.
Your first comment really touched me because I feel the same. I feel so stupid that I bought into LLI in the first place and didn’t do my research. I am still so angry at myself for the time and money wasted.
I won’t go into my sob story at this point, but I agree with you so much about getting the word out there. People successfully got their money back in the 2006 class action.
Did ASIC say there’s any chance we could too? It really would change my life just to get the money back for my product purchases. It would be fantastic if ASIC could put pressure on LLI to give us that back.
I don’t know how it would work as they’re based in the US whether the legal issues would have to bridge across the countries or they would base it on Aussie laws???
Anyway, it’s unfortunate we’re getting this many people in Oz who are now being effected, but I would love it if we could all unite and fight!!!
I will keep checking back here as I would definitely be in if we could get some kind of class action going. The other thought I have is that we could as a group contact LLI and advise them that we are seeking FULL refunds from our product purchases and if they’re not interested, we will go to the media here in Oz. A Current Affair would love the story, they would absolutely LOVE IT!
If there’s anything I could say to anyone smart enough to research LLI before jumping in (something I wish time and time again that I did) then my advice is DON’T JOIN!
One day I will post my story to give an insight into how it’s effected me.
Thank you for publishing this site and for all the postings. I am in the US, and was involved with LLI for about 8 months. Unfortunately, I did not do my research as I signed up through a friend and went on blind faith. She was successful, so I thought I could do it too. Life had other plans, however. After almost US$40,000, I got clear that this business was not treating me well. I did the Beyond Freedom program, and diligently too, over and over. I went to the conferences, and did not feel that the value did not even come close to the huge price paid. Even the pens/notebooks they gave us were so cheap, the pen fell apart in the first hour!
I did make my first 2 qualifying sales, and they both quit the business, and unfortunately, after about US$10,000 loss. Then, I signed 2 more, 1 quit, the other still in, but has sold nothing. In my heart, I was getting the message that there was too much that felt out of integrity. And, the sad thing is, is that this biz attracts some of the nicest people who really want a better life, and want to be of service. I did my due diligence after the fact, and looking back, what I know now, I would have never joined LLI, knowing that my financial success would be at the loss of so many. The income disclosure says nothing about the advertising, conference, website, travel, and all other expenses to operate this business. If you consider that, then the incomes are not too lucrative. Maybe 6% are making a good living. The conferences attract 800-1000 people, with 2 people per ticket, that is still sizable, and so for every 500, 30 people succeed? Not good odds, and to call it a ‘personal development’ company, and that it is all about personal and financial freedom? Most people will fail, and if they went for it like I did, then financial freedom could be a long way off.
I know that I will recover, and I have become stronger and wiser from this experience. I feel it is important to give it a voice (my experience) in the hope that someone considering this biz will do their due diligence and look behind the facade of this personal development company.
Thank you for creating this site so that people can do their research Ozsoapboz. I only wish I had, but like Jenny and Lynn I went on blind faith and feel so stupid for doing it.
It is so sad to read how many people have been effected by it. It isn’t fair that a possible 6% screw everyone else. That was what ate me up inside during my time in LLI. It didn’t feel right and like Lynn says, alot of people join wanting to help others.
I realised it was a rip off and wished all along I had joined Tony Robbins Mastery University. I guess it has been a personal development journey in itself that I have learned to be more discerning about things. I have also worked very hard to clear my debts and am getting there.
The saddest thing is to see LLIers attacking those who leave and blaming the individuals for their failure. We haven’t failed at all, we were screwed. I am university educated and all the people who have posted on here are clearly educated and really lovely people, it’s not like we’re idiots. I guess we all just wanted more out of life and genuinely believed LLI could help us and those we love. I had dreams of giving thousands to charitable organisations. It’s funny, I never once heard people on the LLI calls saying they gave any money whatsoever to charity and yet one of the biggest teachings of personal development is giving to others and helping those less fortunate than us.
I only wish I could get my money back and that all the people out there like me who went along in good faith wanting to better their lives and make a difference, could get what they lost back. I’m looking forward to a reply from Jenny to see if ASIC said we could request refunds and put pressure on LLI to give us our money back. If LLI had any integrity they would refund our product purchases and then they wouldn’t have had such bad reviews on the internet.
People like Tony Robbins have real integrity, they offer money back guarantees. I would never ever return a Tony Robbins product. I couldn’t believe what I received for the money I paid Beyond Freedom. I joined LLI when it was quite new in Oz and unfortunately the exchange rate to the US dollar was quite high. I just continued to lose money and my advisor Michael Berry (also Rachel Oliver’s advisor) was a completely arrogant and rude person. I would like to say more, but do not want to reduce your discussion board to insults.
The girl I signed up with was nice, but I was so appalled at Michael’s attitude and callousness. He is on the UXL ads on Pay TV aswell. Rachel Oliver definitely suits Michael and Arni Berry’s type, they are birds of a feather is all I can say.
At least those of us who are speaking out may help other people who are considering LLI and you may think twice. I wish I had my eyes open at the time and wasn’t blinded by the facade. Still to this day, I don’t know why I was so stupid.
I was pressured to go ‘full boat’ as they call it and was told that the Beyond Freedom level wasn’t enough and I wouldn’t make much money at that level. Then when I asked Michael for help he was so rude to me and put me down. I felt like an ant and there were a lot of times I ended up in tears because of the anxiety and depression of feeling like a failure and feeling like it was all because I wasn’t believing or some crap like that. They really make you feel like there’s something wrong with you.
Anyway, this post is getting really long and I’m sorry if this is starting to sound like a sob story. It may provide an insight into how this company has really tarnished the name of network marketing and home based businesses. There really are legit companies out there, LLI is just not one of them.
Maybe one day the people at the top will develop a conscience. I wouldn’t feel good about a 500k a year income if it meant I was actively deceiving people and it meant that some people, as aforementioned, could potentially lose their houses. That’s not integrity and that’s not true wealth.
Ok, I will stop now. I look forward to connecting with more people here. Am glad I came across this site. I am continually searching for sites that may offer some answers for how we may seek some recompense for being victims of what is really nothing more than a scam.
I also meant to say it may provide an insight into the impact of these ‘Not MLM, siz figure income potential’ businesses.
I’m not against home based business at all, but the reality is that any business minded person would look at the figures and facts of LLI and walk, rather, run away!
There are plenty of other businesses where you may not make as much money, but you won’t have to outlay tons on advertising to get bugger all leads. I think it’s also about feeling good about what you do. In my current line of work I actually know that I’m doing things with integrity and will do so for the rest of my life, no matter what my career. I will never deceive people just to make a quick buck.
Speaking of advertising, without going into too much detail, Rachel Oliver even went as low to steal people from another advisor for an advertising coop. The other advisor was organising some advertising and Rachel rang all her people up and got them involved in her coop. Is that low or what? I think it’s been mentioned here earlier by someone else, but she also poached a heap of people from her previous company.
Her partner is very wealthy so I would say he put up A LOT of advertising money for her to get to first place on Google. Then later on down the track, after her first 100k month, she stated she had a 40k credit card debt when coming into LLI. With no job and her other business failing, where do you think she got the money for her lovely Brisbane river apartment and to buy all her LLI products and go to Mexico? I’m all for people climbing out of a financial hole, but my point is there are people out there who will stomp on anyone’s head to get where they want to go. They have no compassion and no integrity.
Thank you for sharing your experience Lynn.
I can only do so much in my research and posts, the real value comes from people like you sharing their experience and adding depth and integrity to the concerns raised about this company.
These accounts prove the fallacy of Liberty League in this country and show that there is more to it then just one guy sitting behind a keyboard writing articles.
Thankyou again and as well to all others that have shared their stories so far.
Cara and Lynn, thanks for sharing your stories too. I think one of the key points that many people don’t get, is that a lot of people who are getting involved in LLI are educated, generally sensible people. I have a degree and am normally known for being down to earth, realistic and for having common sense (all of which deserted me temporarily I admit).
I did do some research (though with hindsight clearly not enough) but what I found tended to be LifePath ads and ‘scam alerts’ criticising LLI and then pushing their own opportunity, so I didn’t pay much attention. I wish I’d found forums that were objective or shared real life experiences like this one does, which is why I’m committed to sharing mine now. I also had a friend in LLI and I asked her and she raved about it… just like a good new associate is trained to do. I was also introduced to LLI by a woman with a very successful traditional business, so it didn’t seem dodgy. I guess I wanted to believe it was an opportunity to pursue a business in the personal development field, which I love.
Then over time you find out about the actual odds of success, and you come to the realisation that LLI isn’t a true personal development company that cares about improving lives. And you find out that the products don’t have any real value, and you’re just promoting the opportunity to promote the opportunity.
After spending a load of money you’re faced with a dilemma, try and recoup some of it by scamming others, or leave with a debt and your integrity.
And to any LLI defenders, I don’t feel like a failure or a quitter, I feel like someone with a high level of integrity who real cares about others, and acts that way. I will also happily stand my ground and argue that the easy to follow 3-step system doesn’t work, and it wasn’t just that I didn’t have the right mindset, which is pretty much the only comeback they have.
I feel for those joining the business, and understand how they want to ignore these stories as they’ve just bought into something that isn’t the answer to their dreams.
For the leaders in the business… I have no respect and no admiration, and I don’t want to emulate their success through the LLI business model. Instead, I hope through forums like this we can stop them continuing to exploit the gullible, the optimistic, the naive, the desperate, and the trusting… (or whatever it was that allowed people like Rod, Carla, Lynn, Julie and myself to get involved).
It sounds like there is somewhat of a general theme for the folks attracted to LLI; well educated, generous, kind, love of personal development, open, enthusiastic, and desire to be of service. That is the perfect formula to keep attracting and financing this business. And, I have noticed too, that those who ‘fail’ this business take it on themselves as though there was something wrong with their mindset. The team I was on was quite large, the advisor was a top earner, and I witnessed many associates ‘fail’ and/or quit the biz. There were 3 that I know of who even paid for a conference and never attended and were unable to receive any kind of a refund.
I do accept responsibility for my actions and inactions of researching this business before happily handing over my credit card. When I left, I felt angry, deceived, you name it, I felt it. However, I had my part in it too. I did a lot of self-forgiveness so that I could let go of the anger and blame, and reclaim my power. I did not want to go on by giving LLI my power or holding onto my anger, because it was not helping me at all.
I would like to focus my energy on being a voice for the 94% of those who don’t make it and lose so much, as well as for those considering this biz and would like not to be the 94%, or even the 6%, by offering a perspective of what ‘succeeding’ in this business involves.
And, to Carla, thank you for expressing what you feel, as that is important. I understand and I acknowledge your courage to speak out. It is admirable that you are following your heart and being in integrity with yourself and others. Even through the hard lessons that come in, listening within and following the path of your heart…that is where the freedom lies!
Hey there Lynn.
Fantastic to read your thoughts and opinions. It is so important that people such as yourself post on these type of forums to get the word out there for all the unsuspecting victims that are drawn to the hype of the Liberty League sales team.
Can I ask if you are in Australia or the US?
Hi Martin –
I am in the U.S., thank you for your feedback. And, yes, I hope that this forum does help to get the word out there. And, in the U.S. too, because I somehow found this forum through an Australian search.
Thanks Lynn.. I see that the crew over at whirlpool forums are doing their bit!
Having had my attention drawn to this site by my husband upon discussing an appointment that a collegue had with a party who has paid what I deem to be an enourmous amount of money for something that is not really a product at all, I am appaled to see that there are people such as your self asking what this company or these people have done to gain the negative comments. Let me ask you these questions?? Do you have a concience??? This company does not have an actual consumable product to sell, unlike BHP and the likes of large national corporations. They are taking advantage of people that suffer from issues such as lack of self conciencness, no jobs and like the party above have no income coming in, and are selling confidence in them selves to them selves. How are these people going to feel when that person that they sold to – borrowed the money to get in – cant make the money back to repay the debt and the only 2 people they did sell to – and made nothing off- suffered from a family break down or worst still, commit suiside because they have just put their family into a worst financial position that they were already in – with no hope of gaining the funds back.
Unlike companies – small or large – this is not an actual consumable product or a service. That is the difference between this and BHP.
I am not saying that motivational books, seminars etc and personal development information is not worthwhile. They are!! I started out with the standard Og Mandino book when I was a teenager and have continued to read books and attend various selected seminars – one of my favourites is Kurack Ashley – but there is a difference in selling someone a package of promises based upon selling the promise to some one else with the tool being “beleive in yourself” and you will make lots of money!!
This is MLM and is immoral and unethical in my book. I personally could not live with myself if I took someones money and it casued that person hardship, both financially and emotionally and buyers remorse. Could you live with yourself,
I work in the finance arena and can tell you that I see a lot of hardship and family strain already – and tohave these people preyed upon, is absolutly heartbreaking and disgusting. Our authorities should be able to do something about this.
I say make great money !! Go for it – enjoy it – use it wisely – I am not in the least fased by people that make millions – in fact some of my clients are millionairs – but make it with integrity and honesty and without collateral damage. MLM schemes do and WILL cause financial hardship and family stresses – even Amway did this to families.
Rachel Oliver is Queen Bee because she was failing in one network business as she is a good front end seller and a poor mentor. She can sell and recruit all day long. But she cant keep them. She jumped ship to a direct selling business – of very dubious pedigree – but ideal for her particular skills and attitiude. “Rack em pack em – take the money and run”. A match made in direct sales heaven – if they but had something that was sustainable without fresh meat being needed to keep it alive. A lot of fresh meat. Very very short use by date.
Rachel became an “instant” and highly pulicised success at Liberty League. But what she did was not only unethical and cut throat – it was also something few if any she recruited could copy to achieve the success she did – or in fact anything close to it. They had to discover that bit for themselves- after they had parted with a great deal of money for Rachels Porche fund.
She quite simply – used her profile from her existing network marketing business – to contact and recruit – AWAY from other network companies – AWAY even from friends and close long time business aquaintances in her previous business. In essence – she built her Libery League rocket like success by raping and pillaging other peoples network businesses all across the country. She RAVAGED the Australian network marketing industry – she stole her “instant” team from others. Her “quick” success from that – got her the big Liberty League profile that further ravaged the industry in Australia. So many believed – as they were meant to- they could copy her big fast success. They didnt know what she had done to create the sheer numbers of fresh (disposable) “meat” that got her to the lofty income heights so fast. And if they had known – they could not have copied her. Would most people want to??
The new Get Rich Fast “It” girl. She played it for what it was worth – very deliberately – and without the slightest scruple. Many of the people who foolishly but understandably trusted her and followed her – are now broke. But Rachel has lots of new shoes – and theres always new meat for someone like Rachel – and so the story and the show goes on. For now anyway.
I wonder how many pairs of shoes it takes to make knowing you are a complete fraud with the ethics of an alleycat, bearable. What goes around – comes around. O yeah.:) You could make a fortune selling tickets to be around for that show when it comes.
I seen the add on foxtel this morning and thought I would look into it.
When I googled the web site UXL I found this one and I hope many other Aussies do as well. Very refreshing to see the different perspective on this SCAM. The lass who still has her husband I tip my hat to both of you, as it is fantastic to read you are still together and moving forward.
Hopefuly ASIC & ACCC (who are known to move very slow)will put a stop to all the advertising which is totally aimed at the gulible.
Has anyone approached the so called current affairs programms?
I pesonally have a very substantiale email network and this excelle nt forum has been distributed advising all to read this forum before making a bad mistakes.
Thanks for the feedback yaR and I appreciate your help in getting the word out there.
Various people have submitted complaints to the ACCC and ACA but as of yet we haven’t had any luck. If enough people report it though an investigation hopefully can’t be too far off.
When I spoke to the ACCC the guy agreed with me on all the points I raised and said there was definately some dubious claims being made. Unfortunately he said at that level all he could do was pass it up and make the information i’d brought to their attention available to senior staff in the event they wished to pursue it.
No idea what the criteria for investigating a business is though, I’m thinking complaint numbers?
P.S. I wonder if ACA could help us launch a class action against LLI in Australia. All I want is my money back. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. I’m not asking for 1 million compensation for pain and suffering, just the money that I put in back.
Personally, I don’t know how she can enjoy the money. There have been some people get on here and have a go at us for speaking out, but what they forget is the money that comes from LLI isn’t from helping others, it’s from screwing other people.
Being wealthy is a fantastic thing because it gives the ability to help so many more people. It magnifies who we are. So if you’re a snake, you’ll just become a BIGGER snake. If you’re a good person who wants to help others then you’ll make a BIG and POSITIVE difference in the world.
I don’t know how LLI people can be happy with their money as it didn’t come to them in a genuine way and they don’t care about giving to help others.
Like I’ve said earlier on this forum, I would love to know how much money people like Rachel Oliver have given to charity? What percentage do you think? 0% sounds pretty accurate to me.
They never talk about it on LLI calls, NEVER! And yet they ride on the coat tails of the people in the personal development world who are in integrity and walk their talk.
The real ‘gurus’ give so much to people and don’t expect anything in return. I still can’t believe I got sucked into the whole thing in the first place. It has been THE WORST MISTAKE I have ever made in my whole entire life. My better judgement went out the window that day, but I just keep telling myself that the learning from the experience has made it all worthwhile.
I haven’t become more cynical as I don’t want to be one of those people. But I’ve opened my eyes. I always thought people in the world mostly had good intentions, and now I realise alot of people can swindle others with a smile on their face. How the hell do they reconcile that with themselves?
I just feel grateful that I never ‘got in the mindset’ in other words became sucked into the cult because I would have been swindling people too and when I came out of that coma I would have felt like a scumbag.
Oz, by allowing all comments(apart from blatant SPAM), is doing a great job in warning people off Liberty League.
This is evident from the likes of yourself posting on here. In the past forums that I’ve commented on, have been heavily moderated in favour of Liberty League for whatever reason. We are lucky that Oz hasn’t succumbed to theit threats and intimidation.
ACA are only interested in numbers and would need to see substantial complaints to take something like this further.
Email them at (removed)
every complaint will help.
Oz has my details. Email me through him and I will start putting together a list of those interested in talking to ACA either anon or those who wish to come forward. The same goes for anyone reading this.
If only we had the time to organise it but wouldn’t it have been good to meet at the Royal Pines next Friday with a big banner over our table saying ‘Liberty League’s Minus Incomes group’ or something similar.
What I’ve seen Carla is that people are feeling alot better about themselves by posting their experiences here.. its probably the realisation that there are loads of people in the same boat. Thanks for sharing.
Well if we all band together in contacting A Current Affair then maybe we could make a difference. I wouldn’t want them to publicise my identity though, which I think is understandable and I think a lot of others would feel the same way.
Thanks for looking into it guys. I’m not sure what to write to the email address. Maybe we could brainstorm here so that we’re all sending a similar message to ACA about Lousy Liberty League. Seems they are more likely to look into it if we present a united front and the bigger picture about LLI. My hope would be we would get some money back as a result of the program and that LLI would be derailed in Australia.
It’s so good to see people coming to this site when they are looking at LLI and realising what it really is. We are making a difference. Thanks Oz.
I’m in for ACA, but want to remain anonymous.
I did a google search after seeing the UXL ad on the lifestyle channel and am delighted I found your site. These scammers should not be allowed to advertise and I will be contacting Foxtel to express my disgust they are getting onto the TV.
“It won’t happen overnight but it will happen”,read the quote from Boris on his disgust with Foxtel. Go for it,the more subscribers that complain and threaten to disconnect will make them listen, the people do have power in numbers if they remain strong…
I found a site called Living Scott Free. Home based business telling all to think big while riding his Motor bike on his waterfront driveway on the Gold Coast. His lecture at the start askes you to think BIG , Six figures etc…..Guess what , I had stumbled on to another LLI scam artist. Can these people just start proclaiming these business names or are they all linked back to the mother ship in stealth mode. Needless to say I will not be joining Darren & Debbie SCOTT at Living Scott Free……
Hi there Brett,
Yep, they can just start up at $49.95, get an ABN online, get a domain name and a mass-produced website and you are away, ready to lose some money.
Just wanted to say i am a liberty leaguer and have been doing this business for just 4 months.
I havent made a fortune yet but I have certainly made more than i have paid out.
The personal development program has had an absolutely amazing affect on me and my family. I am a changed person. For my whole life i have suffered from anxiety and depression. I have had near nervous breakdowns. Since I have been doing the Beyond Freedom i am on top of the world. My anxiety is completely gone and I have started to live a wonderful life and noticed all the good in this world.
The $1495US is an extremely small amount to pay when it has this affect on me and my family. It has changed my life. I am sorry that you all feel so much bitterness towards liberty league. I also can tell you all those who have signed up under me are also grateful for liberty league.I cant imagine that any of you who were with liberty league actually used your beyond freedom. Even if the whole company disappeared tomorrow (which it wont) i would be grateful for all that it has opened my eyes too.
My life is wonderful!!!!
First and foremost I’d like to point out i was on a LLI Business Overview call last night.
I was contacted last week by a lady in Brisbane who found my details on careerone, or mycareer or some online job site. I am currently looking for new work as I work in sales and whilst very successful, I don’t believe in the product I sell. Thus, I am on the market. I spoke to the LLI lady and explained to her why i wanted to find new work, and intrigued me by outlining the beyond freedom product.
So I ended up on the overview call. I thought it was too good to be true. Having watched my mother get heavily involved in a MLM (Mannatech, which i have a whole series of observations on how they do business if anyone is interested), and make very little money so far i decided to do research (lucky for me I hate my current job and have no qualms about spending 1/2 a day looking into this). Most sites i found were either obviously Liberty League associate sites, or competitor sites, so i was feeling a little lost finding impartial information. Then i found this site. Whilst Oz is obviously not impartial, I have found reading the comments extremely insightful and I can categorically state that I will not be spending my hard earned on a program that is designed to prey on the needy.
Thanks guys for your insightful discussion into this!
Ellie. Absolutely delighted that you are one of the extremely few that actually make more than you fork out. Good on you.
Just wondering why you think no one actually used the Beyond Freedom pamphlet?
Hey ellie thanks for sharing your success story. I think it’s important to highlight that yes there are people that make money in Liberty League but where does the money come from?
Without a constant stream of new members to the business Liberty League would collapse on itself as no money would be generated. Sure you have repeat customers buying conferences from you but if they are living off the business where do you think this money is coming from?
Somewhere down the line on your sales register are people either working actual jobs or borrowing heavily to sustain your lifestyle. Obviously if you’re comfortable with this well then there’s not much I or anyone else can say that’s going to have any impact.
I don’t have any personal bitterness against Liberty League, but I hope what I’ve written gives people something to think about.
Thanks for sharing your story.
AWESOME NEWS EVERYBODY…………….
After receiving correspondence from ASIC I was referred to the Department of Fair Trading here in NSW.
LIBERTY LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL in NSW has been classified as a PYRAMID SCHEME. Individuals operating the business are liable to a $10,000 fine and business $100,000.
I have spoken to Fair Trading in QLD regarding this finding and the consultant would not release any information. She strongly recommended I lodge a complaint with reference to the ASIC letter I received and Fair trading NSW’s stance.
It sounds like if we get enough people like myself that have lost money with LLI to lodge a complaint to the QLD office then they will follow.
If only this happened sooner, Super Charged Saturday would be an illegal event!!!
Well done Rod.
Hopefully enough people at the supercharged event will be made aware of this before its too late.
Again, well done to everyone.
I will definitely follow up tommorrow with Fair Trading here in NSW to clarify if it is their view or an official ruling. Either way, if a government body such as the Dept of Fair Trading has it on file, is is definitely something.
Hey this is excellent news, I’m glad i decided not to go ahead with it. If someone can confirm the ruling that LLI is consdiered a pyramid scheme in NSW, I would like to send this to the lady who contacted me to join and see what she has to say about it…
Well done Rod (and everybody else).
Is it 100% official? I’ve requested information from them regarding it.
Might give them a call tommorow and see what they say. Be interesting to know when the decision goes ‘live’ and how this will effect LLI in Australia.
That would be so great if LL was classified as a pyramid scheme there! When I was in LL I did raise concerns about all the negative press to my advisors and the only advice they would give me was that all those complaints were made by bitter ex LL’s.
I just found this site and THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU!!!
I have emailed Foxtel at there corporate affairs email address coporateaffairs(at)foxtel.com.au to show my disgust at allowing them to advertise these ads to the general public, who do not have all the information regarding this organisation.
And with the current news of them being deemed a Pyramid Scheme by the Dept of Fair Trading in NSW, it only further adds more proof against them.
So if like me you are a subscriber to FOXTEL let them know what you think!!
Ellie, I am happy for you that your business is bringing in more than you put out…I am curious, does the positive cash flow mean that you have also purchased your conference tickets too? If so, even better for you.
During the time that I was with LLI, I did do the Beyond Freedom program every morning. I also know of others who did as well. But, you see, doing the program doesn’t always equal sales in LLI, as you can see by the percentage of folks who have failed in this business. Of course, I don’t know their daily operation either, but I do know mine. You see, the biggest factor for me that became clear after months into the business, is that I just couldn’t ‘visualize’ my success at the expense of many others. The few people that I did bring on board, lost a lot of money. They were all excited about the business, did their Beyond Freedom, advertised, fliers, yard signs, and more, including being on the training calls. So, the system is not full proof as claimed on many’s websites, otherwise the numbers would look a whole lot different.
LLI Ads should read “proven 3-step system with at least an 85% failure rate.
Yes, that would be more honest!
I have finally been able to bring myself to look at the websites again. The new ones use a lot of multimedia hey, they were a lot dodgier when I first ‘got started’
I just thought of a new catch phrase advert “Liberty League, if you stick at it long enough, you’ll get to screw people just like we do!”
Hopefully these scammers are quaking in their boots right now because their fortune is going to go out the window. Hopefully Fair Trading in QLD declares it a pyramid and it can be shut down for good.
Those who thought they were so far above everyone else are going to have to come back to reality and either pay massive fines and hopefully go to jail or even worse, go back to working for an honest living like the rest of us.
I think being self employed is great, but only if you’re ‘in integrity’ as LLIers like to say and actually helping people and contributing good things to society.
I am now awaiting Fair Trading to get back to me and hopefully Facebook is going to shutdown all LLIer ads. These people may have made their fortunes but I doubt they’ll be able to support their illustrious lifestyle when they fall from grace.
The funny thing is, on their business calls, I bet LLIers are saying everyone else is wrong, even Fair Trading, even though Fair Trading actually has the law behind them. That’s the sad thing about cults hey. I’m glad I never fit into their warped way of thinking and I wish I never got sucked in just because I thought the person I signed up with seemed really genuine and nice. What a sucker I was.
I’ve emailed LLI Corporate to request a record/receipts for all my purchases and hopefully Fair Trading will help us band together to get refunds. You would think LLI would want to keep it quiet and just settle privately and give us our money back, but I doubt they will.
Even after all the bad publicity they’ve kept on going, but maybe ACA or someone will help us. It would make such a difference to the lives of us who have been scammed out of A LOT of money, even if we could get half of it back.
What do you all think? Think we take it further and start putting pressure to get our money back?
Sorry to harp on about it, but I think there’s been a massive victory already through getting it declared as a pyramid. Hopefully this is going to prevent so many innocent people from getting involved.
I know when they did the class action in Australia they were able to get recorded phone calls of being pressured to join and then being pressured to buy the conference tickets. I bet law enforcement would be able to do a similar thing here.
While we have the momentum, I think we take this as far as we can. Would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.
I’ll stop posting for now, have posted over all the threads just cos I’m stoked by what Martin and Oz have achieved in such a short space of time and I hope we can take this further for all our sakes and for those who we wish to warn about this scam which is now officially a PYRAMID!
LLI is operating in New Zealand, I’m keen to see documents from Fair Trading etc, email them to ethicalmartiniATgmail.com
I will lodge a complaint with Fair Trading QLD. Would be great if Martin/Oz, you could email me the advice you received from Fair Trading NSW and I will send that to Fair Trading QLD aswell as my own experience.
Let’s stand up and fight!
I’ve posted everything communicated to me thus far by fair trading NSW. When the document arrives in the mail I’ll make it public.
Hopefully it arrives early next week, I’ll give them a call if still nothing by Wednesday.
VERY VERY INTERESTING, folks!!! And timely.
I signed up in June but have not been able to find the funds to buy products.
We were unable to go to the Super Saturday on The Gold Coast (today) due to lack of funds (we were invited just to network for our current business. Plus, we thought we should put the $1000 it would cost us overall to attend toward the Beyond Freedom pack. We just got an SMS from our leader saying “BREAKING NEWS!!!! Buy all three products yourself TODAY and gain INSTANT QUALIFICATION”, in other words, you can gain instant profit from the sales from now on without waiting for the usual qualification stipulations.
We very nearly signed up there and then (in fact I still have the page open with all the boxes ticked) and then I found THIS site! Just in time, it seems!
We have been in business for nearly 20 years and are now struggling through these tough times. We have had some good times, though and at least I know with our business when we work, we get money. LLI was very tempting, but something in my “common sense” section of my brain just didn’t feel right. I thought it might have been my usual, negative, cautious ways that perhaps have not done me that much good during my life, so I kept my mind open.
My work might not bring in 6-figure profit, but it is tangible.
Our advisor recommend that we contact the bank and put our mortgage on hold for 12 months so we could afford to buy the products. My mother even offered to buy everything for us to help us out of the quagmire we are in at the moment.
I have to say I would rather work my out of it normally than take money out of my home or from friends and relatives.
PS – I was also concerned with MARKET SATURATION. There are at least two others in my area (they both got me into it…one helping the other) and we are in an area of NSW that is not small, but not like Sydney or Newcastle. I reckon saturation would hit pretty quickly here, if not already.
I also thought it was funny that you were required to have a website to have the business run properly. The pictures on the website are supposed to depcit the successful lifestyle you have received from LLI.
Well, how can someone who has just started with LLI have those pictures? I mean that is unless you are ALREADY successful and have travelled the world taking copious amounts of “look where I am photos” for use in the website…all I could use are pictures of my holidays to The Barrington Tops. LOL. Not really depicting 6-figure income lifestyles you should be showing-off on these types of sites!!!
Additionally, my advisor was from a successful marketing career, already earning 6-figures. Hence their photographs reflecting success!! AND their ability to dabble in LLI while retaining a great big income (hence their ability to pay for all the LLI additions you have to buy to run the business!).
As well as getting in reasonably early with this, I think you have to already be reasonably well-off to run it successfully.
In addition to my last post, my advisor would have also had, in addition to her degree in marketing, a hell of a lot of contacts because of her job.
No doubt these things would have helped immensely with her LLI startup leads and advertising.
Rodney. Thanks for posting the info above. I can tell from reading through it all how tempted you would have been by all the hype these people are so good at getting accross.
If your advisor is based in NSW, She will be having a few sleepless nights in the next few days as we await written confirmation that Liberty League is trading illegally in NSW.
Im thrilled you are on of the lucky ones, having found this forum before throwing away your money.
I’m curious. You go on about this Liberty mob, but at the top of the page you’re advertising Life Path????? What tha???
Have you ever heard of Google Ad sense?
The adverts are delivered by goolge based on site content.
A friend who attended the LLI “Super Saturday” yesterday tells me that the big announcement was that LLI is changing its name (at least in Australia) and its marketing procedures and will be selling 23 “products” rather than 3. My dear but foolish friend still seems to believe in this nonsense and I am longing for public confirmation that the scam has been declared illegal. But perhaps that is why the name is changing: LLI may be declared illegal, but the new name and old organization will live on and continue to rip off the naive?
I’ve been researching LLI as a new business opportunity and came across this forum.I haven’t joined the company but know people who have. I’m trying to remain as open-minded as possible, while soaking up all the information. A few points I’d like to add from my own point of view are these:
1. I’ve listened to some calls and recorded audio trainings on an LLI site because I had access to it through a member, and can understand why calls are “scripted” as mentioned in earlier posts. I don’t see this as negative, but rather as giving newcomers tools to use to help them get started with a consistant message and system. Most who join or begin any business are not leaders to begin with but to be successful need to development their leadership skills. One has to start somewhere.
2. I can’t find any evidence that anyone “above” the recruiter receives any financial gain for any sales. It appears that the recruiter simply forfeits the first two sales, which are regarded as “training sales” to their adviser. After that, products or tickets to events are paid for at retail price, with the seller retaining the wholesale price, and paying the company the wholesale price. Therefore I fail to see the connection with an illegal “pyramid” scheme where those at the top reap the benefits. Perhaps I’m missing something. I believe that every business or organisation has a pyramid structure, with the CEO making more than the cleaners blah blah, but there are “illegal” pyramids and legal pyramids.
3. I have seen the Beyond Freedom package which is $1495 USD (I believe – not looking it up for accuracy)but certainly somewhere around that. It seems over-priced, but that’s my opinion. However, I will say that I’ve seen the person who shared this info with me, transform from being a meek, shy young woman to a confident, assured, vibrant individual as a result of her involvement in LLI.
4. I was researching an MLM company called ACN 2 – 3 years ago (I’m not in ACN either) and am aware that they were shut down in NZ for many months while court proceedings took place but the case was eventually won by the ACN company and ACN seems to be a very healthy and rapidly expanding business now, so am not convinced at this point about the NSW decision as mentioned.
5. I have also seen claims that LLI requires just 3 – 4 hours of work per day, 4 days a week, with an hour or so on Sat and Sun. This I don’t believe for a moment. I believe that those people making large amounts of money in LLI are putting much more energy and time into building their businesses. To claim differently is misleading in my view. I also believe that the high income earners are investing considerable amounts of money into the advertising. (How much money does it take to create and place TV advertising? How much does it cost for ever-increasing Google ads?)
Just my 6 pennies worth. I do believe we have to be careful and forums such as this are valuable. Thankfully we have the internet! I was ripped off to the tune of USD $9995 last year as a result of going to one of those “free” internet marketing “seminars” and got sucked into buying (GET IT NOW – SPECIAL SEMINAR PRICE – ONLY 8 LEFT) you’ll know what I mean….by a USA company who took my money and ran, and there wasn’t a damned thing I could do about it. I too, enquired through Fair Trading etc, and because it was a USA co, I didn’t have a leg to stand on. I take responsibility for my silly action, and learnt my lesson.
I’m not convinced at this point that LLI is bad. If it helps some to blossom and believe in themselves, it obviously does some good. However, it probably doesn’t suit everyone.
Gday Stan, if that’s indeed what’s happening you’ve kinda gotta ask yourself why the need to rebrand? Surely if Liberty League was above board and the business model was sustainable they’d be keen to keep the established brand and further their ‘success’?
Sounds like management are trying to avoid top earners inevitably fleeing to other less known scams pre-emptively by changing the company itself.
Yes, she is in NSW.
No doubt the LLI name-change will help her, though.
I am not saying LLI doesn’t/can’t work. I am sure it works for some. But after all I have read here and elsewhere, I am not spending another cent on LLI, or whatever it is called now.
I wonder if anyone asked the question “why the need for a name change?” at the Super Saturday and, if they did, were they immediately ushered out the rear exit by huge men in black suits, sunnies and earpieces in place.
I would have loved to see the reaction and heard the answer!
Let me save you some money.
The Beyond Freedom course is Liberty League’s primary product….Without the income opportunity attached, this course would have very little value.. If you read the book “Think and Grow Rich” you can attain the same information.
I too have been looking into LL, plus a few other similar type products, UXL, what ever it is , 6 blonde girls ??, etc etc , its all similar , dvds, seminars you buy them etc etc
It can be pretty confusing , i have a few friends involved , who have been to the seminars , they swear there doing great, i believe they live by the “Fake it till you make it Philosophy ” that the company preaches , would love to see the Current affair shows look into it , to see what they find , how does a member advertise what they do , flyers , adds in papers , internet ???? my life is pretty good at the moment , sure i could do with some extra cash, but really don’t belive in buying a product for $1800.00 aust dollars , will be any better then reading a couple of books on the subject as for those $13,000 seminars , give me a break , who in their right mind would buy into one of those ????
I lost over 25k and agree totally with Oz that it’s a flawed business model with ridiculously overpriced products. I went to see Tony Robbins for way less money and had the time of my life.
Anyway, joininig LLI has been the biggest regret of my life and I wish that Fair Trading could help me get the money back, same as I wish you could get your 10k back that you lost with the other company. Anyway, if a classs action ever comes about I’ll be in it or if ACA picks up the story.
At least we’re helping people by spreading the word, but it’s sad to read that the snakes are just going to change skins and rename themselves. Let’s hope Fair Trading picks up on it and shuts the WHOLE thing down.
Don’t worry Douglas, I mustn’t have been in my right mind, single biggest mistake in my life.
I would pay good money to attend Tony Robbins but he’s the real deal. Not some dodgy cult that rips people off.
Just to touch on the compensation structure with Liberty League.
The company say themselves that you can expect 30% of recruits that buy the Beyond Freedom pack to purchase a Liberty Conference ticket.
A further 30% of of Liberty ticket buyers will be expected to buy the Summit Ticket.
Lets do the maths…. From reading peoples experiences, not more than one in one hundred leads will purchase the Beyond Freedom, so, paying between $5 to $10 per lead, the one BF sale barely covers your own BF and running costs.
To sell one BF a week you would be looking at costs in the region of $700 to $1000 inclusive of LLI fees, telephone, advertising etc., etc.
Now bearing in mind that three out of ten BF buyers (one thousand leads in an ideal scenario) will purchase the Liberty ticket, it could take you seven to ten thousand dollars to get three Liberty sales. With your pass ups and your own costs taken into consideration you would be well out of pocket and running at a substantial loss for a long long time.
Again, from reading peoples experiences, most that purchase BF do not even bother to continue with the business so the figures will read a lot worse than the ideal.
Part of the deception with Liberty League is for everyone to portray that they are wealthy, showing pics of them living it up in Acapulco or Hawaii when in fact the truth is, they have maxed the credit cards and re mortgaged the house to get to the events, having been coerced into thinking that somehow their business will explode on returning from the conferences.
Now uncomfortably overdrawn on their credit facilities, knowing their business hasn’t at all ‘exploded’ a descision has to be made whether to continue with the lies and deception and the ever increasing debt, or whether to cut your losses and quit.
The sensible ones I feel are those that quit.
Martin, interesting info – thanks for taking the time to work it out.
It didn’t add up for me, either.
My advisor told me she was in a very successful marketing position earning 6-figures and continued with that until LLI made enough for her to leave. LLI must have been very good to her, though…why would you leave such a high-paying job for something that takes ages to build?
Of course, if she was as successful as she made out at her job, she would have had incredible marketing skills and many, many prospects (leads) at her disposal for when she moved to LLI.
Why did she want to leave such a good job? Well, she said she wanted time with her family. Fair enough.
We found out later she also had her own business, as did her husband. So they most likely had a fair amount of disposable income.
In essence, she was already living the high-life, so she could easily display a wealthy lifestyle with pictures of overseas holidays at her disposal for her new website.
My wife’s cousin and his wife have just gone whole-hog into LLI and of course we wish we could tell them what we have learned, but that is not our business to do so and would only come across as being negative to them anyway. They are already sucked into the hype with their pictures displayed enjoying conferences with their advisors on facebook.
I have no doubt my advisor is doing well, but I think it is really from her past life and not necessarily LLI. It is easy to impress possible leads with lakeside mansions that were purchased using money pre-LLI.
They are so darned confident and happy. You can’t help but be pulled into the hype.
Again, I wanted to add that we were advsied to put our mortgage payments on hold so we could invest in LLI. “That’s what we had to do” said our advisor.
But it seems awfully smelly to me: Why would she have to do that when she was still working at her 6-figure marketing job when she joined LLI and had her own successful business as did her husband?
Looking at the figures the average Joe is turning over with LLI, I am sure glad we decided NOT to put our mortgage on hold!
Hey Cushla, I’ll address some of your points;
You have to remember associates generally aim to go to every conference Liberty League host. The tickets for these events are always bought from your advisor as you can’t buy them from Liberty League itself (as far as I know).
Look at it this way, if tommorow selling the Liberty League ‘business opportunity’ was banned and they were only able to sell the products – they’d go broke pretty quickly. Cash is injected into the company by new recruits on the promise of the business opportunity, without this ever expanding bottom layer of the pyramid the company goes bust.
Nobody is paying the prices Liberty League ask for just to feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Can I ask how long this person has been in the business, whether they’ve been succesful and are they turning over a proft? The marketing for Liberty League is strong – the whole premise is to overload people with positivism and self confidence to keep them in the business for as long as possible.
Positivism and self confidence alone aren’t bad, but coupled with an unsustainable business model, overpriced products and incredible financial odds against you to succeed which exponentially get worse the longer the business has operated in your country – and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Sorry to hear about your loss last year. You’ll find a few testimonials from people that have been through Liberty League and lost much more scattered throughout the Liberty League articles on this site.
Oh, the other thing…
The “Associate of the month” video on the LLI site has been the same one since June.
Oh well, I guess they could award that to the same person three months running…
Hi Ellie, I am happy to hear that the first part of the money that you have spent is deemed to be worthwhile as you cant put a price on getting back your confidence and not suffering from depression. Anything that puts a positive injection into your family is a great thing. I have a few questions for you.
What was causing you to feel this way in the first place and have you actually addressed this or these issues or have you just put a band aid on the problems?
How are you going to feel when the person you have just sold to – and you have sent your first full programe up line – comes back and asks you for the money back because his wife wont talk to him for making the investment into the program? You cant give them back the money because you don’t have it?
Could you have gained the information from a $500 seminar?
Is it the extra income that assists with feeling so good?
When the company IS closed down by the authorities – and it will be deemed as illegal and has been in other states – how are you going to feel? Your bubble bursts and you are left where??
Ellie, for your own sake and your family’s – seek help now before your world crashes down. At least if you do this you wont fall so far.
I used to tell my daughter – what the mind can perceive you can acheive. But you need to do it with out hurting others.
Take the benefit that you have received – ie the new found confidence and the new life that you have and use it in standard business practices, not on taking advantage of others as this program does. You will succeed. LL will only lead to hurt and pain for all involved in selling the program.
That is super dodgy that they told you to put your mortgage on hold!
We forgot to touch on the point, as demonstrated above, that everyone in LLI is a pseudo therapist and can help you with all your problems.
Speaking from a professional perspective and the knowledge that it takes years of experience and education to be able to work with people in distress effectively, as a lot of you would know, being clearly educated and switched on people, I find it sczary that LLIers give life advice willy nilly or they just say “Think positive and you’ll be ok!” Or worse “Do your Beyond Freedom, that will fix all your problems.” Dangerous stuff.
I mean above as in previous posts about how Beyond Freedom is the answer to everyone’s problems.
I hope the new named company gets shutdown too. Dodgeyville.
What I think is REALLY dodgy is how a product – that was just this last week selling for $1495 US now sells for just $29.95 US.
How would you feel about that if you – like I ALMOST did – bought that product last week and then discovered this price change.
I would feel rorted, to say the least.
Oz, thankyou for your comment re my post. You asked:
The person I referred to has been in the business 15 months and what caused me to sit up and take notice was that I had access to the back office of LLI (thru my friend’s account, as mentioned earlier) and was gob smacked to see she’d earned $13,000 in two consecutive weeks in one month! This is a young woman who I had known to be quite introverted. She is now so full of confidence.
I hear what everyone is saying, and their concerns about the way this company does business, but having myself paid for and completed the full Christopher Howard course, at the cost of $18k I know that 85% of the people who do his courses (which are intense)don’t open their manuals after they leave.(This doesn’t apply to me, as I’m a qualified NLP Master Practioner, and use the tools in my business and personal life) but for others who didn’t apply themselves, they are a complete waste of money.
I see a value in a 90 day programme for many people, because it suits them better, as seems to be the case in the young woman I mention.
The business model LLI uses does seem to be flawed, as is apparent by your calculations and if by voicing their concern, people in this forum and others have caused LLI to re-think their business model, as may be the case (name change and other changes?)then congratulations to everyone for taking the time to stand up and bring awareness to the public.
Long Live the Internet!
Cushla, if the woman you’re referring to has made a profit against her expenses over the fifteen months then best of luck to her, she’s beaten the odds. Just make sure what you’re looking at wasn’t a lucky week rather then the norm.
If she’s succesful then more power to her – she’s beaten the heavy odds against her. Mind you if she joined fifteen months ago she is in a much better position then someone joining today.
LLI has only been in Australia 2 years and only in the last six months or so has become mass marketed.
I just hope where her money is coming from doesn’t hit her suddenly one day and undo all the self confidence she’s built up.
As for LLI’s business model I’m holding out for the new compensation plan, not sure what they’re doing with that but launch is a week or so away so we’ll see.
What is it with you guys, it is not pyamid, carla has already told you that.Investigate properly before agueing a point that you obviously dont know about with someone that is in the company. Negative negative negative,dont you like to see people happy and making shit loads of money doing minimal hours. Is it jealousy? The company is registered to trade in australia, and is changing the lives of so many people for the better, I’m happy for them, Focus on what you want and go get it people. Don’t worry about the people that are negative, if they dont want to help themselves that’s their problem.
Best get your facts right. What you just wrote is completely false. I was at the conference.
How many times have we seen this rubbish.
What are the facts?
You were there.
Please tell us.
We’re all ears.
So we’re to disregard the authority of the NSW office of fair trading and listen to Carla now? Yeah uh…
Thanks for entering into the discussion Lou but you’ve brought nothing to the table beyond ‘you’re all just negative’ which we’ve all seen before.
Someone else who was at SuperChargedSaturday.
i’ve since been told the $1495 course has broken up in to smaller packages , smaller courses , so your not getting the $1495 pack for $29.95 , they are different packs
I dont know why people are using my name. I never said it’s not a pyramid. I’m happy it’s been declared a scam and wish I never got sucked into the monster that is LLI. It’s a snake pit.
I think you meant Cushla, not Carla.
Neuro Linguistic Programming? Ye gods, more New Age drivel.
You guys need to get your story straight. One lot are asserting LLI ISN’T a pyramid scheme, while another lot are justifying it by claiming that it IS but everything is a pyramid (e.g. BHP cleaner to CEO).
The second lot are half right, it is a pyramid scheme, but they are comparing remuneration with chain of command. It’s like comparing cheeze with bricks, just baffle waffle.
“Is this MLM?
No it is not, MLM is such a great concept but they have no real structure and it is always much harder and takes a lot longer then they say it is. I need instant gratification versus building something that could be in 1-3 years.”
“No incomes are represented or guaranteed in any amount for any participant. Some Associates will earn no money at all in this Program. No person earns any income solely for enrolling others in the program. Any experience shared may be unique to the individuals sharing them and should not be taken as assurances of success for others. Results of participation may vary widely.”
While Im already bankrupt from a previous ‘dodgy’ business decision,the recent saturation campaign on Foxtel perked my curiosity more than my interest.Im one of the most cautious and untrusting people you will ever meet due to previous bad decisions so I read and pick apart the most petty of advertised promises and schemes,and after researching…no not really even researching..just READING the basic blurbs on uxl and nowucan2 I can honestly say the old motto rings true here: “If it sounds too good to be true,it usually is.”
Now to see the comments of people that have been duped here,I am truly sorry for your losses,and I salute those of you who have taken action against schemes.(On a side note,I sent Foxtel many emails regarding these ads,havent heard anything back for a fortnight.)
Finding this site on page 1 on a google search of uxl is a welcome sight,I can only hope that my fellow Foxtel viewers will do the same and read THESE testimonials first before typing in those CC details.
Good Job Aussies.
I changed my Bank a few weeks ago and have yet to advise Fox of my new visa details so when they sent out a SMS about it not being paid i sent them an Email back stating that i refuse to pay my acct till those Ads were off the air and considering i’m on the platinum package as well as getting 1-2 PPV a month (I’m a big wrestling fan) they’ll lose alot of money outta me…. i’m hoping they’ll take notice as they haven’t suspended my service yet and i have not recieved another overdue acct SMS…
Hey! thats a bit of irony there
The new Polaris full membership where you buy the whole shebang gets you to “Platinum” status.
Maybe Foxtel are in on it… lol
I’ve a good mind to cancel my foxtel but the kids would lynch me. I have emailed a couple of times and even phoned up but got put on hold for so long I just lost patience. Good on you for your action and you too SquadB.
I joined LLI, purchased Beyond Freedom and even went to a Super Saturday. I finally canceled my monthly billing for the conf system and website. Luckily I was smart enough not to go to a conference. I also was never impressed with the income earnings of 2008 of LLI. I am glad I am done but I do not blame anyone. We are all responsible for making our own decisions. I do know people made money in LLI but no longer support it. Now they are changing the name to Polaris Media Group. Why would a company that claims to be very successful change their name. WHAT A JOKE
OMG do i have stories for you all. Was almost sucked into this last year… in New Zealand, get over here to Australia and its feral.
My family has been ripped apart from these businesses, one person in particular who we wont name; i want to ring his neck and tell him to get a damn job instead of talking absolute crap all day.
UXL on you tube has removed or comments… LOLUXL are now advertising on Virgin Blue domestic flights…complaint pending.
Can we all confirm NSW ruling on LLI, and also any QLD rulings with ASIC?
there is confirmation from the Dept of Fair Trading on this page
I’m guessing ASIC and the ACCC will be next…
Although I’m not associated in anyway with LLI, so I can’t comment on that. But I would like to comment on a few previous comments, and hopefully I have used the “quote” link correctly.
The above quote has just described what happens in most franchise systems – The Franchisee pays a percentage of their sales/income up to the regional Franchisee, then up to to the State Franchisee, and so on and so on up to the Master Franchisee and then up to the Franchisor.
Also, what has been described above – “you’re handing over some of the money from your sales to your uplink all the way to the top..” sounds slightly different to what happens within mlm. And after reading some comments where it has been mentioned that you have to pass 2 or 5 sales up (depending on if you were to purchase the product)sounds like a ‘2-up” system, which is different to mlm. I’m sure any of the people who were with LLI who have commented can correct me if I’m wrong…
From my understanding, 80-90% of ALL businesses started will fail within the first 5 years, and then 80-90% of those surviving businesses fail within 10 years. So I don’t quite understand your comment, perhaps you could explain why you comment a little?
Again, I would like to point out I am in no way associated with Liberty League. Truth be known I actually found the link to this article on a friend of a friend’s facebook page. I clicked through because I thought Liberty League was a new TV show. Boy was I wrong 😛
Mary. The point is that it is never mentioned with LLI and probably wont be mentioned with Polaris either, though time will tell us this.
The source of your failure rates for traditional businesses would be welcome.. I’d be interested to read this.
Perhaps you would like to read this article where traditional failure rates are listed as less than a third in five years.
Are the people starting up these businesses being told they’ll make huge six figure incomes if they ‘simply follow the script and are coachable’?
As Martin says, these failure rates are hidden away and never mentioned in the marketing. Also a ‘franchise’ as Liberty League is/was marketed as (half the associate sites have a ‘lets compare Liberty League to other franchise startup costs’ section) is slightly different then Joe random opening up a hairdresser on his own.
Then there’s the wholy pyramid scheme aspect of it…
Let’s face it, comparing Liberty League to legit small businesses, whether they fail or not, is just not practical as they are completely different. One’s a scam the others aren’t.
Martin, and soapbox,
Please don’t think I am defending Liberty League, because I’m not. As I said in my first comments – I thought it was a TV.
Anyway, thanks for correcting me on the fail rates of business. For so long it has always been stated that 80-90% fail in the 1st five years etc. And that is what I was basing my statement on – That people buying a liberty league “business”, in that regard, may not have expected a realistic difference whether stated or not.
– Yes. In some cases. I’ve seen ads for some Franchises stating $2K+ per week. And lets face it. When you buy a franchise, (in most cases) you follow a script (operation manuals)
Mary, don’t confuse something like Polaris Media Group with a traditional franchise. With a franchise you are investing in something tangible that can be onsold later on whether you have been successfull with it or not. You still generally own the rights to a certain geographical area that will be worth something should you wish to sell it.
You could work Polaris Media Group for ever but at the end of it all, the ‘business’ is absolutely worthless.
I’m not confusing anything with a Franchise, (except, I thought this entry was about LLI, have they changed name to Polaris Media Group?), I was simply answering the blogger’s question from the quote below, that all…
And my answer to this question is “Yes. In Some cases”
I actually agree with everything you said in in your most recent reply, Martin 🙂
People who come to sites like this to “research” companies before getting involved are… sorry to say… ‘never do wells’. What you’re actually doing (subconsciously) is looking for reasons not to get started as opposed to finding reasons to get started. People who become successful have studied other successful people. They don’t give much time or attention to uninformed outsiders, quitters, complainers, or blame-rs to get “the inside scoop”? In LLI, you can speak to top producers, who have no vested interest in your getting started, who will answer your questions. But in the end, as with any and every endeavor, you are who determine whether you’re successful or not. LLI will give you all the best tools to help you get your mind set toward success, but you have to do the work. Having made a ‘decision’, then you must take firm massive action in order to succeed. That isn’t the easy way though. Yes, it’s less effort and less scary to stay with the herd and cry in your puddle about what might have been. But to get what you really want and be successful, you’ve got to be a ‘Maverick’. You don’t ask ‘herd dwellers’ advice on being a Maverick. If you have a big enough why and clear goals, then breaking free and making the effort to reach your goals while having a community support you in your journey…that’s well worth it. I speak from experience.
Gday Jz, first of all you might want to check with the NSW office of fair trading before claiming me to be a liar.
What if your goal is to rid Australia of scammy pyramid schemes? Is it ok to be a maverick in this field?
I seem to have decent enough support from the Australian community if the response to my articles on Liberty League are anything to go by.
Your web site appeals to and attracts people who are fearful and your sole purpose in life appears to be to feed those fears. You would cease to exist if you were not sitting here trying to take down a good company. Anything, man or animal, which is driven by or operated in fear, doubt, and looking backwards, will not be successful, and that is a Universal and spiritual principle. Everyone with any success, had to push past fear and go for their goals. There are many people who chose not to operate in fear, who went with confidence in the direction of their dreams, who truly followed the simple marketing instructions, who have and continue to benefit immeasurably (not just monetarily) from LLI products and are a testament to LLI company, products, and the opportunity. They are ‘focused on serving people’ and are thanking God that they found it. I would also have to add that your behavior appears to be that of a text-book “Anti-Social”. Anti-social personalities and those behaving as, are what feed fears of people and keep them down, weakened, and stuck in their old boxes, too afraid of what is ‘out there’ to go for their dreams. I’d have a lot more respect for you sir, if you were advertising something positive, rather than you sitting here, like a snare, railing ‘against’ something (LLI & Polaris) that you “clearly” know nothing about. All of your above written assumptions are, at best, misguided. If you want to promote your own business, then do so. Just put all of your energy into promoting yourself in a pure and above board way.
Jz – tell us specifically what comments are wrong.
I was with Liberty League for 12 months and have been to hell and back. $50k debt, mortgage about to default, stressed marriage, friends lost, and living a total lie. The relief when I left was amazing!
The scariest thing is that I am only one of MANY out there in the same situation, some better, some even worse.
There is a lot of TRUTH on this website from former associates of Liberty League like myself.
This site is very positive, it has informed many people and given them some cold hard facts so they can make up their own mind about the opportunity.
Why are you here then? Are you doubtful or fearful?
I have nothing to hide and are here to tell my story and have a mature discussion about this “business opportunity”
Anyway Jz, you have nothing to fear, just ask your prospects if they have heard of Oz, if they say no then you have got a “always do well” type (maybe this question could be added to the script to assist in the qualification process).
PS: Rod is my real name, I live near Sydney, Australia and my advisors were Kieron & Kristi Atkinson based in Toowoomba.
Have a great day!
Rod – He’ll probably say to you that the reason you failed was because you didn’t follow the “system” properly.
He’s a predictable brainwashed moron who can’t think for himself/herself… that is all.
These are the exact same people who bought “The Secret” and look up to it like it’s the bible.
They also loving bringing God and spirituality into the argument, two things they also can’t prove exist.
Here is my last comment for this site… as I said, your site attracts the fearful and the “victim” mentality. There is a saying, “A man convinced against his will, is not convinced even still”. There is no sense deliberating with those who want to continue to blame and take no personal responsibility. It’s clear that none of you read or put into practice LLI’s Beyond Freedom or you wouldn’t speak like this. So, if you didn’t even use the products, how could you be successful offering the products or opportunity to others? No wonder you choked, as frauds should. But don’t blame the company or the product. These principles can also be found (in different format, but same messages) in books like “Think and Grow Rich”, “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”, “Attractor Factor”.
As a Business Consultant and Coach for the last 18 yrs in 18 different industries, I wouldn’t recommend any one here to go into any business, because you don’t seem to have the mentality to be successful. That said, I wouldn’t hire you as an employees either.
LOL. Same old same old.
They keep telling us we understand nothing about the business, so when we ask them to explain it to us, they go quiet.
I was actually up to my fourth round of Beyond Freedom AKA The Kindergarten Guide to Personal Development. When my silicon wristband snapped, so did I, out of the parallel dimension I was living in. Thankyou Liberty League for supplying a crappy 2 cent wristband, It saved my life……
Heres a tip, go out and buy a book called Mind Power into the 21st century by John Kehoe, grab an A4 notebook and pen, and there you have it, your very own “beyond Freedom” (for less than $30).
Thankyou for addressing absolutely none of the questions and just falling back on sprouting the utter nonsense that is the Polaris Media Group partly line when it comes to addressing criticism.
Reader of this site have used the products and have directly addressed your comments and you have competely ignored them.
Hopefully the QLD fair trading act get onto Polaris Media Group before they encourage others to max out there credit cards, borrow money etc.
Well I sure hope your recommendation wouldn’t be to become an affiliate of the Shane Krider Retirement fund. What sort of business consultant are you?
18 years and 18 different industries, sounds like Jz is on sort of merry go round hopping off from time to time but getting nowhere in the end.
seems like he can’t keep a job down, no wonder he’s gone to these Scammers for a pay cheque. Tho probably getting nothing compared to those 18 jobs… i’m a stay at home mum and so glad i have the sense not to fill in any “we’ll contact you” sites… which led me to OZ and WP…
Sorry that was 2 Quote Jz not you B.
And I also speak from experience when I say that what you have stated is not the *only* way to get a business on its feet and going well. You need grit, but that is not ALL you need, and that is the fatal flaw in what LL’ers have presented here. In fact in my line I wouldn’t employ any of the LL’ers who have posted here because they seem to be *blindly optimalistic*, don’t have their feet on the ground, and therefore a potentially high risk factor.
Do you REALLY want to be flown in an airliner, or hooked up to a cardiac monitor, designed or serviced by someone with a blue-sky self-seeking she’ll be right attitude?
I didn’t need loose cannons or one-man-bands, I needed educated clear thinking people who were self-starting and managing, but who weren’t so ego-driven that they didn’t know when to ask for help because they were out of their depth.
Your implicit logic is also faulty. Just because some of the more conspicuous business people are Mavericks does not demonstrate that being a Maverick will bring you success. Simply doing a better job builds a solid foundation.
A core problem with selling a Personal Development Course is that, like undertaking, it is a oncer, a real dead end, and in one stroke these schemes transform clients into *competitors*. Food and toilet paper may not be exciting, but everyone needs some every day. Industrial plant and bio-med equipment busts and needs fixing, renewal, replacement. Forever.
@Jz – September 8th, 2009 at 2:32 am
I can’t speak for anyone else posting here (‘tho I can guess at a couple) but if you knew my situation and background you would eat your shorts, not to mention your words. Fearful? Doubt? Looking backwards? Anti-social? VICTIM mentality?
Dream on sunshine, your total cluelessness cracks me right up. I specialised in the worst of the worst, total basket cases abandoned by everybody else as hopeless, so-called “impossible” tasks. Do you think people said “when all else fails, call Roly” because I was a fearful, self-doubting, anti-social, victim? Or an abrasive no-nonsense can-do type-A personality (with dubious business and interpersonal skills)? That’s why I just got back from a week birdwatching and working on personal projects at my other place up the bush.
What did YOU do last week, eh? How many phone calls did you take/make, prospects did you try to sell, meetings attended, conference pep calls? No doubt running around like a manic hairy goat, while I was out by the creek observing Blue Wrens, punctuated by a languid lunch in an excellent local cafe. Dream on. :))
Dream of clients of decades still beating a path to your door begging you to do work for them, rather than a mob of homeless victims after your blood.
Your story gives me genuine pain and you have my sympathy, but perhaps the really *amazing* personal transformation is actually when the wristband finally snaps and you wake up from the nightmare. 😉
Roly’s reply to Jz really struck a chord with me. I too am a successful business owner who lives the sort of life that LLI/PMG pretends that ordinary decent people can aspire to using their methods. Yesterday I finished work at 2.30, picked my daughter up from school and then I went for a swim at Bondi Beach which is only 500m from my front door. I then paid in full for two business class tickets to Europe and Asia for Christmas and New Year (BKK ZUR DUB LON DUSS HK if you must ask). I went first class last year but business class is fine too. This life is the result of a good education followed by a dedicated and principled business life. The customers I dealt with 15 years ago are still my customers and will be as long as I am around. I treat my employees and suppliers with respect and dignity and my company and I hope myself are highly regarded in our industry.
Last week I was driving on the Pacific Highway around Chatswood when I saw several signs advertising a home business opportunity with a web address. Out of curiosity I looked it up when I got home. Of course it was the old LLI/PMG scam, but it upset me to see that here was a young woman with beautiful young children who was obviously trying her best for her family and I knew in my heart that her dreams were going to be shattered by these ruthless bastards.
What is this whole sorry episode going to do to her self esteem and feeling of empowerment at what should be a wonderful time in her life.
If I have a friend about to get their bank account swiped by Polaris Media Group. What can I do?
Marcus. You could fill in his/her website form anonomously, with a link to this blog and/or a link to the whirlpool forum. Exposure to real stories like the ones posted here are a sure way to get someone to ‘question’ the hype and lies that are being forced on your friend.
I became an LLI aasociate in Jan 09. I thought and researched it thoroughly, and did have persistent misgivings on the fact that I would be selling the business model and not really personal development (seemed rather insincere) – but I went ahead based on my greed.
I stopped 2 months later because:
1. my misgiving related to the insincerity mentioned above wouldn’t go away
2. couldn’t find any associate who would come clean on exactly how to market with fairly consistent success (I thought they were protecting their marketing methods – and the guidance on the website was a group of rambling and garbled recorded discussions)
3. MAIN REASON – couldn’t continue to sound enthusiastic about selling a business model where my audience had so little chance of success.
My issues aren’t whether it is MLM or not because that’s getting into semantics in my opinion – my issue was representing myself sincerly to potential customers – something I could not do selling LLI products.
I’m glad I didn’t purchase any conference tickets.
Thanks for sharing Graeme. Glad you have a conscience unlike other greedy LLIers ( PMGers ). What they cant see is that they are selling the business model and how to be greedy ( and at what expense ) – not selling true ” freedom ” or self help products in their true sense. Others have mentioned cheaper options for ” enlightenment” ( for lack of better word ) and it seems the greedy ones cant see the fact that they can achieve this success or better living by being good to people, having a conscience etc – people would be better of joining a church, or one of the ” new age ‘ churches, meditation etc… instead of spouting the ” loving ” ” confident ” sharing crap by LLI/PMG that is all about GREED.
Just wanted to write a quick email to tell you all that my wife and I just sat through an introduction call which was suggested by a “friend” of ours. My wife is always skeptical of these MLM businesses but it has 100% been this site that has made our decision official. We will be steering well clear of this “business opportunity” and their products.
Thank you guys for being objective, informative and affirmative in detailing the truth.
Best Regards, S & M
I don’t have any intention of contacting Six Figure Chicks by phone but just a note on the recording for some of you, it isn’t illegal to record a phone conversation but you do need to get permission from the parties involved prior to doing so.
A very good point – I have been to many “prospecting calls” when the prospect was not aware that the call was opne to many other poeple – is this illegal?
This is all interesting . IN my yr in the biz – lead were costing me $25 plus each – advertsing through the internet. Before April this yr – it was relatively easy, using a $us100 course to generate lead on Google – now it is very very differcult and unless you are a full time google student – you wont have any luck. Lead of late have been costing me up to $40/lead. Google understands this biz and doesnt like it – it wants tranparency – which is NOT waht this business is about – as so many have eluded to. Personally being involved in this buiness has cost my family $80,000. Dont be sucked -0 they are very cleaver at brinawasting ppl. Give it a miss. I have ot walk away – there is no future here – if you have any sense at all
Yes, it is illegal. You need to make the person aware that they are being recorded and/or monitored. If they agree its ok, but must be given the option of terminating the call, monitoring/recording be ceased or transferred to another line.
LLI/Polaris are in breach of the Telecommunications Act 1997 and/or the Privacy Act 1988.
The “dialling for dollars” live prospecting calls get quite personal so the prospect must be informed that they have hundreds of associates listening in to their life story.
I was aware of this when i was in the
cult scam brainwashingleague but turned a blind eye, amazing what effect it had on an honest person such as myself!
I believe it’s not illegal to have other people listen in, as it’s not illegal to put someone on speakerphone – but if you want to make the call public you need to get permission.
I guess if you’re broadcasting the call live this might be a grey area? I’m not too familiar with the law in that particular circumstance.
The difficulty is that LLI don’t record them. They’re the only calls not recorded and I bet it would be for that reason. That way no one can prove it.
And I think others listening is a grey area, but recording is not a grey area.
Does anyone have the scoop on where Brent Payne is nowadays? PMG say Brent and Shane went their separate ways. Would love to know what that was all about and what Brent is doing now. Maybe he’s packed up and moved to Monaco because of the big storm?
Am thinking about contacting US Attorney General if possible to see if I could join US class action or something. My ex Summit Advisor Michael Berry, most arrogant person you could ever talk to is in the US. Also Rachel’s Advisor funnily enough…birds of a feather.
I had to pay him as the chick I signed up with wasn’t BF qualified. She told me was qualified shortly after that and I found out she lied and didn’t get qualified until months later.
But LLIers are all about integrity! Integrity my ******
By the way, I emailed LLI corporate to get receipts for everything – surprise surprise, no contact! Grrr, this sucks, I wish there was some way we could be compensated. These people are leeches.
Thanks for the info – very informative – so glad i read this site! Is anyone able to advise if Unified Wealth Solutions have any links to either Six Figure Chicks, Liberty League or Polaris?
If you do, what sort of links are there and are they available to the public to view?
Shannon Lavenia claims to be a co-owner
Funny thing is, on their website it claims ‘UNIFIED WEALTH SOLUTIONS, LLC, a registered business in the State of Arizona’
Yet when you check the details at: http://starpas.azcc.gov nothing turns up…..
The other mob at: http://incomesunlimited.com/register.php used to be owned by Michael Hamburger & Rhonda Swan
As we know, they left LLI for Lifepath.
Tony Rush has ‘advised’ everyone to transfer their leads from Incomes Unlimited to UWS, for obvious reasons no doubt.
As far as I know UWS is owned (although you might have to jump through several hoops and tunnels to prove it) by Krider or a subsection of the higher ups in Polaris Media Group. It’s kind of defunct now as everything is offered inhouse with Polaris but whilst Liberty League was running that basic premise was associates paid UWS for a cookie cutter sales page.
Really it was just an additional revenue stream for the owners. I believe there was also a lead generator that was marketed to associates as well which also pocketed profit for the higher ups.
Man, are you guys unbelieavable. Jenny and Martin I tut at you. Geez, anyone can get on one of those calls and you guys are hard pressed to. (LOL) How about you actually signup for Beyond Freedom and the course (I promise) will teach you to actually focus on your own life and your own path instead of trashing others. There’s a tid bit of what the course does and how about this? Once you are focused on your own goals you are more likely to achieve them. You are more than welcome. I am being of service, something else the course teaches. To me you both just sound like angry people who have not found their own resolve in life nor their own direction. All the best to both of you!
I did, along with attending Liberty and Summit and in return I got 50k debt.
Don’t get me wrong, Personal Development is great, That is one of the reasons I joined, I believe in goal setting and personal growth etc (BTW Beyond Freedom IMO is a copy of Mind Power into the 21st Century by John Kehoe, I purchased the book for about $30.
The problem I have is that LLI/Polaris is selling a dream/false hope to the thousands out there who expecting some miracle to happen.
Liberty League International and now Polaris Media Group is not a sustainable business, does NOT operate with integrity, is dishonest by not giving full disclosure on start up and marketing costs (and don’t give me the BS about there is no required purchase and there are hundreds of “free ways to market”).
It is all about lying to potential business associates to get them to join and commit to the conferences, nothing else.
The failure rate with Liberty League International was massive.
IMO Polaris Media Group is failing also, the signs are already showing, yet the foolish are hanging in there.
Ironically it seems that the founding members are now back in the MLM called PMG flogging off $30 DVDS, just what they got away from with Herbalife!!!
BehindMLM has given us a platform to speak from and the LLIERS/POLARITES DON”T LIKE IT.
I responded to a ad on job search engine and, it turned out to be polaris media group.
I became suspicious when the website i was directed to didnt actually tell you anything about what you needed to do to make $$$ . I did listen in on a conference call today but after doing my home work I am staying well away.
Kind regards and best wishes to all those picking up the pieces.
I am yet another hapless fool…I now feel like one of the lucky ones, having “only” blown 18K. Needless to say, this loss has put me under even greater financial stress.
I became aware of the NSW decision that LLI was a pyramid a couple of weeks ago, and I sent an email to my former “advisor” asking him if he had heard about it – his reply was to wish me well in the future…what a creep – he made a lot of money out of me and could not even do me the courtesy of replying.
By the way, for any other Australian residents reading this who have also lost money, I am awaiting a decision from the Commissioner of Taxation regarding an application I have made to allow me to claim my losses as a deduction on this years tax return. I don’t like my chances, but I thought it was worth a go.
Wow. I saw an ad on Fox for some fantastic money making scheme & was intrigued because I knew it was a farce. I googled the website mentioned in the ad & this one came up. I was totally mesmorised reading all of the posts. My gut feeling was spot on! Thanks to those guys who have taken the time to thoroughly research these types of scams & for those who feel stupid for being taken for a ride, dont. It’s human nature to be trusting. I was involved with Amway many years ago so I know how easy it is to believe that spending money you dont have will one day make you rich.
I just wish I would have found this site years ago! My wife and I were with LLI/PMG from 2006-2009. When we first heard the business overview call, we fell for it, hook, line and sinker! It sounded so easy. Just place a few ads, send them to the call and get paid! We brought all three products no questions asked. We thought LL was the best thing since sliced bread! We went to work right away on our BF and started a marketing campaign. We both worked in corparate america, so we could afford a nice advertising budget. We both ended up quitting our jobs to pursue LL full time and that alone was one the of worst mistakes we made. A few weeks went by with no sales. We went ahead and purchased the other two BF for our training sales for other family members. All of them said LL was nothing but a scam and the BF was an ok product, but not worth the price. Our main mission was to prove them wrong. We attended a couple of the conferences and did blogs bragging about the lifestyle LL enabled us to live, even though the financial debt was mounting. We didn’t want to quit because we would have felt stupid when everyone we knew was telling us what a scam it was. In Feb of this year,we just could no longer keep up with the lie we made so many people believe. We were not rich or living a lifestyle of freedom, we were already more than 100k in debt. We cashed in our 401k plans, depleted our savings, cased in stocks we had for retirement and even took a second mortage out. We have since had to file bankruptcy. Even our bankruptcy attorney was stuned that we fell for such an obvious scam. Now my wife and I are living in a small one bedroom apartment. We don’t have kids. My wife had to take a job that paid way less than her previous job. I am still unemployed. I’ve taked with a few exLL’s with simialr stories and most of us didn’t quit because we still held on to the belief that if we just put more effort into it, we’ll be a top income earner. It was just a very costly lesson we learned. I do hope they get shut down once and for all.
Forgot to mention, we were able to get two more BF sales. We did make 2k! Getting those other sales was not an easy task. We didn’t just talk to 100 people to get them. That was after calling thousands and thousands of leads.
I’ve got my story exposing Liberty League to the public of New Zealand up on http://www.tewahanui.info/wordpress2/?p=2519
Would be quite good if you’d go and post a comment or two:)
Hi Cara…I am looking at possible involvement with Polaris. My problem is it was difficult for me to understand what exactly is the product/s that they are selling. The other matter is is the product priced reasonably for the final consumer? I would welcome your advice.
First of all let me thank you all for the time and effort in contributing your views here. i am generally a sucker for this type of scam, while my wife is a lot moore cautious! Therefore, I decided to check Polaris out on Google and I came upon this blog, quite by accident – and I am so glad that I did.
Since I responded to an advertisement that was on MyCareer, that was promoting ‘LifeStyleOne’, I was invited to a conference call last night, which I participated in and what astounded me was the pricing of the product! And I am still not sure what exactly is/are the product/s that Polaris sells! At mid-day today, I received the follow-up call but I was on another call at the time and the lady left a message for me to call her back. To cut a long story short – thanks to this web site, I will not be returning her call.
Also, I checked with NT Consumer Affairs about LL. They said that they started an investigation into the way that LL conducted its business and becasue the investigations were getting drawn out, the Consumer Affairs had handed over the continuing investigations to ASIC.
Once again thanks a lot.
Hi Chandra, you might want to take a look at ‘Polaris Media Group: Analysing the new product line‘.
This is subject to personal opinion. I personally don’t see the financial value in motivational conferences that cost as much as a car but others will tell you they are pricless.
No worries mate glad the info was of use to you.
Wait what? NT Consumer affairs confirmed over the phone that there are ongoing investigations into LLI/Polaris?? What exactly did they say? I was never able to get anything out of them after the NSW press release.
In early 2008 I was having a rough time. I was a single father with a teenage daughter. I recently took custody of my daughter due to her being the victim of an assault from her mother and step-father. Consequently she was very disturbed and emotionally broken. She was self harming and having suicidal ideations. I didn’t know what to do. I was a single father with no help from her mother as she was too busy trying to fend of ‘child basher’ allegations. This of course meant that she was not prepared to contribute financially to helping with the raising of OUR daughter. I was an emotional and financial mess and trying to hold down a full time management position. I by chance fell upon Rachel Oliver as she enquired about advertising through the business I represented.
Basically I was the Qld State Sales Manager for a company who was responsible for coordinating the National Careers and Employment Expo’s which did a circuit around the country stopping off at all major cities. Rachel left a message with my office enquiring about setting up a stand at the Brisbane expo with a view to promoting the ‘next big thing’. I called her back and enquired what it was she did so I could check the suitability of this event against her core business. I told her that this event would not be appropriate however I was intrigued personally.
At this point in my life, I was a very vulnerable man and who had significant problems I was tackling on my own. What Rachel offered would’ve seemed to a level head too good to be true, but to me it was a solution to providing my daughter and I a better life. I followed up with Rachel on my own time and was caught hook, line and sinker. I went into a lot of credit card debt to set up my business and hoped and prayed that what I was doing was going to see us out of the darkness we were living daily. Meanwhile I was taking my daughter to weekly mental health appointments and doing the best I could to not only be an example but get us out of the mess caused by my daughters mother and stepfather. I sincerely thought Liberty League offered what they were saying they could offer – financial independence.
Meanwhile I lost my job as my parental responsibilities took it’s toll on my professional responsibilities. I was now in extreme financial trouble. I had enrolled my daughter in a girls school when she came into my custody as I was aware these were her formative years that I didn’t want to waste . But this came at a cost. I had invested, like Jenny, well over $15,000+ which I didn’t have. I put it all on the credit cards and tried my best to make this thing work. I had no choice but to give it my all.
Fast forward to today, I am now bankrupt and I hold Rachel Oliver and Liberty League responsible. I received no support and was feed deceptive lies. Yes I made the decision to pursue this ‘opportunity’ but the point I want to make is this – at one point in our lives we are, for whatever reason/s, fools. It might be because we were blinded by love, maybe it’s a false self impression of our abilities, maybe it’s the loss of a loved one that renders us lonely. Whatever the reason it doesn’t matter. The reality is we have ALL been extremely vulnerable at one (or more) time in our lives.
I hold Rachel Oliver and Liberty League responsible because they KNOW this.
They KNOW there are people out there suffering and they KNOW they are able to purport to be the answer to people’s problems. They KNOW that a fool and their money are easily parted. If you’re a predator like Rachel Oliver et all and play the percentages, you’re going to do OK because at any one time, the majority are doing it tough and looking for answers/solutions (preferably before anybody else finds out about it so a ‘first mover advantage’ is incorporated into the up-sell strategy).
I challenge anybody to prove me wrong and bestow me with their life of perfect execution.
Rachel Oliver and Liberty League are exponents of despicable behaviour and makes me wonder how they can continue to sleep at night knowing that are the cause for such destruction. This is NOT about self awareness and personal development. This is about self harm and personal destruction. And they KNOW this!!
I now have a job that makes me happy. I travel to work by train and not a week goes by that I don’t receive a flyer in my windscreen wiper advising me of the ‘great new home business opportunity’ waiting for me. Quotes referring to the ‘Secret’ and how I can ‘make things happen’ if I am gullible enough to let it happen. With a wiser head it’s now amusing. Two years ago, it was my life and my passion because as far as I was concerned I ‘believed’ I was going to make six figures within a year. As I write this now I am looking at the latest opportunity that was dropped on my car last week. I feel so sorry for these people.
Stay away from Liberty League people. All you have to do is simply be the best person you can be and by virtue of that you WILL develop. You don’t need to pay anybody for this privilege. We’re human beings, it’s what we do naturally.
That’s quite the story there Steve, sounds like you’ve been through some real lows.
When I read some of these personal experiences I’m simply blown away. I’m literally sitting here reading your story trying to imagine what it must feel like to be in that position and just can’t.
Thankyou for sharing your story. I only hope that with each person that comes forward that everyone elses eyes are opened just that little bit wider.
Text of email from Foxtel regarding UXL;
Thank you for your recent correspondence with respect to the UXL advertisement that has appeared on the FOXTEL platform.
FOXTEL takes your concerns seriously. I can confirm that FOXTEL has instructed its advertising agency to remove the advertisement from FOXTEL’s broadcast schedule.
I trust that this outcome has enabled FOXTEL to adequately address your concerns. Your feedback to FOXTEL is appreciated. However, if you are not satisfied with our response, you may contact the Australian Communications and Media Authority (the “ACMA”). The ACMA’s contact details are available at http://www.ACMA.gov.au.
Should you have any further enquiries, please contact me on (03) 8325 2***.
FOXTEL Customer Advocacy Office
Thanks. It wasn’t the best time in my life and can honestly say that I didn’t think I was going to get through it. Having said that though and in retrospect, human beings are resilient creatures and able to adopt to changing surrounds quickly and respond accordingly when tested.
Fast forward to today and I’ve turned things around and in a happy place. I’m getting married next year and my daughter is doing great. We have a great relationship and communciate very well. She’s aware of what we both went through back then and I think it’s helped her appreciate what it takes to be happy. It’s a shame I had to go through this Liberty League experience to learn more about myself and what it really takes to be happy but the end result is that I’ve finally ‘got it’ and now have better life tools than what is found in Beyond Freedom.
About Beyond Freedom…anybody considering LL consider this – if LL take 2/3 and leave you a third of the retail price, doesn’t that then tell you that it is overpriced from the start? Head Office get 2/3 for what??? Now apply this scrutiny to the entire model and you will start to pick up inconsistencies across the board with this company. Ask yourself questions then try and answer them as though you are running the company. If their answers differ from yours then you’ve found another inconsistency. Use your moral compass to guide you and you will find that being misled is how they get you to a point of vulnerability. That’s when you start paying big time but you don’t realise what it’s costing you because you’re too busy spending the money in your head you’re going to make!
I would encourage anybody considering this ponzi scheme (and that’s what it is) to stay away. The model is sound if you’re into ripping people off and being deceptive. If that’s your thing then you’ve found the right business. Bernie Madoff would back this one to the hilt.
I however don’t operate like that and feel quite passionate about going after those that do. I would welcome the opportunity to be an active member of an advocacy group going after these thieves. Count me in if I can be of any service to anyone.
All the best : )
Thanks for the update Boris, that’s interesting they’ve decided to pull the UXL ads.
Someone previously mentioned advertising Polaris on tv wasn’t allowed anymore so it was strange they were still going (although I guess somebody’s got to pay for Rachel Oliver’s increasingly alarming ever-oranger tan).
Reading this makes me feel compelled to respond. I looked into Liberty League and considered joining.
I actually spoke to Rachel Oliver on the phone after responding to one of her ads. I found her to be a very straight talking, very professional sounding entrepeneur andI found her to also be refreshingly honest and down to earth.
Now the most important word I just used in that last sentence is ENTREPENEUR !! Most people are not entrepeneurial. Most people are opportunists looking to make money quicly, or easily and they want someone to hold their hand.
An entrepeneur knows that business is tough, and requires work and ultimately you are on your own. Those here blaming or complaining about failing are exhibiting the traits of an opportunist, not an entrepeeur or business strategist.
In reality you had no business being in business!! You are more suited to being in a JOB!!
Now ultimately I chose not to join Liberty League. Not because i thought there was a problem with the company, more it was Liberty League was not a good fit with my personal entrepeneurial vision.
I think Liberty League is a good company and has a great compenation plan. I just needed to find something that encompassed the the things I am interested in. Things I am more passionate about.
I am still to this day on Rachel’s mailing list because I see her as a leader and a very good ENTREPENEUR!
It is my belief that our outcomes, success’s, failures high’s and lows are our own responsibility!! WHatever happens in MY business …its MY FAULT !! I take full responsibility for myself and my choices.
I dont blame others. I have failed in the past in various businesses. It was because I didnt educate myslf how to succeed. Once I took responsibility for my outcomes and past failures it was very liberating.
I joined Carbon Copy Pro and got , to my mind, the best online marketing training/education from the top elite marketers on the planet.
This education and training gave me the courage and the belief in myself to take responsibility for my lifes outcomes and enabled me to create my own business.
SO in closing dont bag a business like Liberty League or Rachel Oliver – Rachel should be applauded for being an outstanding leader and business woman. I guarantee she takes full responsibility for her outcomes and doesnt blame anyone.
And to those of you who failed with Liberty League take a hard honest look at yourselves and ask, Did I have any business being in business? Did I have extensive marketing Knowledge? Did I train myself to operate on the fastest moving, changing toughest business environment the world has ever seen–the internet.
BehindMLM looks happy to accept commissions via adsense here though on “work from home” and “online marketing” Adwords
would be amusiing if you were getting commissions from Polaris Media Group ads via Adsense !!
Hi Shaun. So whats Carbon Copy Pro all about??
PMG, Lifepath, Carbon Copy.. They’re all the same systemised networked crap. They all tout like cheap whores that they’re “online” “marketing” and “education”, when in reality, they run similar systems.
Carbon Copy uses a similar “template” structure for sites seen in PMG/LLI & Lifepath, offers similar once-off consumables and, falls in the same pig swill as Polaris/LLI in Australia because it’s marketers (or whatever the hell they’re called) spin the same “no selling” and earn millions of dollars online crap that got LLI/Polaris in hot water in the first place.
Its an online marketing & education platform designed to teach peole how to market either Wealth Masters Int or a product of your choosing.
Martin, click my name/weblink if you wish to see.
I think you’ll find CarbonCopy Pro is indeed a marketing education community. Its NOT a business !! It teaches marketing , and the outcome/purpose of marketing is sales !
Hardly cloak and dagger stuff. Secondly there is nothing once off about learning marketing…its constantly evolving and changing. Take a close look at companies like Sony , McDonalds
and so on. They Market online to drive sales. If you have a business and you wish to venture into marketing online you need to know how.
Judging by your thoughts though I’d say marketing and sales probably isnt for you anyway…and thats ok!
Shaun, PMG/LLI and CCP have the same teaching focus and the same output. They want their downlines to generate sales, not actually educate people. Which is why you see affiliates asking for people on their template milled sites (for either PMG, Lifepath or CCP), not selling actual repeatable consumables. Your website and pitch isn’t original, Shaun. It just looks like every other CCP “template” site out there.
I do also believe CCP falls foul with the “2 up” compensation plan that got LLI in hot water with Department of Fair Trade NSW in the first place. At least according to this review of it:
Shame about that, don’t you think?
Top companies like Sony, McDonalds and the rest employ agencies in conjuction with their own creative departments to get maximum market share for their campaigns. Trust me, I’ve been involved in the Australian media, marketing and creative industries for a decade, dealing with major corporates and how they want their campaigns to be pushed. I’ve dealt with campaign spends into the millions.
Such major corporates do not whore themselves out to small time, home based operators that trade in PMG, LLI or CCP. Therein lies the difference.
So take your “non-original” business which should be classified as illegal within Australia (being 2UP) elsewhere. The only time you will display an original thought is when you stop invading Australia with this crap, preferably when your business attracts the same amount of lawsuits and government watchdog hunting currently following PMG/LLI.
Some good points there Lance.
It appears that Carbon Copy Pro and Life Path have their origins in Liberty with the founders of both having come through the LLI ranks.
That in itself says enough about these scams and how they all operate so much the same.
Some people seem to be under the impression that if you pay a monthly fee to some company, use their templated websites and advertise deceptively, this makes you an entrepreneur.
I must have missed something …. Are they not just dodgy, unpaid sales people? Its an insult to put them in the same bracket as true entrepreneurs.
I’ve never really gotten the fierceful defending of the word entrepenuer when it comes to associates.
I mean fair enough if you’re running your own business, but all the Polaris landing pages request that you are “coachable and able to follow the system”. Tony Rush’s landing page even goes one step further and stipulates that if you’re the kind of person who ‘tries to re-invent the wheel’ don’t bother contacting him.
How is being a coachable sheep and paying a company a monthly fee (the backoffice isn’t free) even remotely entrepenurial?
Lance delve a bit deeper into McDonalds latest ad campaign and the so called “hoax” regarding the frewville macca’s in south australia and their drive thru. it was all over news dot com dot au.
look up the name david thorne and see how long it takes you to put the pieces together. social media marketing. ill give you a hint – reddit.
the world (particularly online is changing) Sony & Macca’s are prime examples of companies using social media marketing and “magnetic” marketing.
I’ve been involved in pitches to try and make up and coming music artists bigger than Susan Boyle with the same viral pull. In all cases, such strategies are not the same teaching taught by PMG, LLI or CCP. Most salepeople and basic marketers don’t provide a correct brand and creative strategy that is truly innovative. (And no, I’m not giving away any of my secrets either on how to make things successful. I get paid the shed to make it happen).
Go back to your home based business, cos you and your illegal pyramid (being 2UP) isn’t worth the time for Australia.
You’re not an entrepreneur. You’re just a SOHO salesman with a “product plan” that is illegal in Australia. I fire guys like you with your NLP, metric light, hype heavy, hard selling pitches daily because of the damage such strategies can bring to a business brand and return on investment.
So when you have something of note, instead of a whiny “CCP education is just like every other viral campaign” (with David Thorne and the rest), then I’ll sit up and take notice.
@Lance Lighten up mate!
Well said Lance.
So let me get this straight Shaun, you didn’t go into business with Rachel but posses such depth of knowledge about Rachel and LL that you feel ‘compelled’ to defend them?!!
I’ve read some of your responses and you my friend are one very misinformed person to say the least. Your perception of CarbonPro is laughable. I know about these guys first hand too and it IS a business, NOT a ‘community’ you’ve said. It is a similar model & principles as LL. But you know all about it don’t you, you’re an entrepreneur!
For the sake of the argument and rebutting to your mindless drivel, I’ll have you know that I am in marketing and have quite a bit of sales experience. The position I held when I was dealing with RO was that of State SALES Manager for an expo company who relied on marketing in every platform to underpin a coordinated strategy and market presence. I was the State Manager in a national strategy. I hardly call my experience insignificant.
As for RO / LL, you don’t know what transpired between myself (and others) and them. The treatment, the lies, the fob offs, the misquoted figures, the embellished emails etc etc. I agree Shaun she is’… very straight talking, very professional sounding entrepreneur [sic] …refreshingly honest and down to earth’. That’s called a ‘pitch’.
Did you know the same players are operating under POLARIS? I wonder why that is??? Tell me what these ‘entrepreneurs’ are up to Shaun? Why have we seen these people change companies or at the very least, apply the same model to a different business name? What was wrong with the old one? Why is Rachel Oliver operating out of POLARIS now?
You sit in your ivory tower and tell people to have a look at themselves to the backdrop of not following through with LL yourself and then feel ‘compelled’ to critique an audience you don’t know anything about while applauding someone you’ve NEVER done business with. Wow you’re a real player Shaun.
Your posts have done nothing for your credibility. When I see your name I think of an easily impressionable teenager misguided by a false sense of worldly knowledge but is too scared to move out of home. It’s a big bad world out there Shaun so make sure you’re really ready before you decide to come out from behind mum’s apron and venture into your first share house. Don’t forget the black permanent marker so you can label your food! Take it from me, it doesn’t feel nice when people LIE to you so they can take something of yours they’re not entitled to.
Anyway I’m going to sign off and wait for your next pearl of wisdom. Hopefully it will be a little bit more challenging than the maccas hoax in SA. Think carefully before submitting your next post, beating the maccas revelation is going to be tough and from what I’ve seen to date, it’s going to be quite a stretch.
“And to those of you who failed with Liberty League take a hard honest look at yourselves and ask, Did I have any business being in business? Did I have extensive marketing Knowledge? Did I train myself to operate on the fastest moving, changing toughest business environment the world has ever seen–the internet”.
The above isn’t personal?
Your critiques are personal and offensive to those honest hard workers who were misled and taken for a ride – regardless of your ill-informed opinion.
At least I agree with you on thing, there is no need for it.
Maccas ‘marketing’ themselves by having a leaked email to the public signaling their intent to blatantly rip people off. Interesting. Shaun, are you the dude who came with ‘iSnack’? I’m serious, are you that guy using a pseudonym?
Lighten up people …your getting personal. There’s no need for it.
Just to clarify the Macca’s “hoax” was orchestrated.
They are questions not statements.
Do you have any proof of this? I wrote about the McDonalds hoax and don’t recall seeing anywhere that it was orchestrated by McDonalds (which is what I assume you’re inferring).
dig deep …. i’ve given enough hints.
Genius stroke of marketing i think.
So in other words you’re just speculating. I know very well who David Thorne is and I’m not convinced McDonalds had anything to do with it.
The email wasn’t leaked, it was doctored by a serial prankster.
Serial Switched on Marketing Geezer would be more on the money!!
Not all marketing consists of bait and switch campaigns with lies by hyped up, brainwashed sheep such as Shaun in order to secure customers, let alone build brand credibility.
Kind of ironic that PMG, LLI, LP and CCP all trade in the former (lies, hype, more lies buried by more hype, trading on people’s thirst for greed) and not the latter.
By the way, you still haven’t adequately demonstrated you’re an entrepreneur. You’ve just spouted marketing hype in order to claim credibility. Might I suggest you rethink your strategy since you seem to be bringing the CCP brand into further disrepute by your own words and actions ?
(And yes, businesses do pay me the shed to rescue their brands when people such as yourself represent themselves in this way)..
Address the legal and business points I’ve raised concerning the legitimacy of CCP in how it interacts with Australian law, or run away.. Your choice.
If you are a PRO member, please contact PRO support in reference to your posts above.
Just for everyones info. Fairtrading are investigating Liberty League.
Ruhroh here come the censors!
found this interesting disclaimer on a members web site
“EARNINGS & INCOME DISCLAIMERS
ANY EARNINGS OR INCOME STATEMENTS, OR EARNINGS OR INCOME EXAMPLES, ARE ONLY ESTIMATES OF WHAT WE THINK YOU COULD EARN. THERE IS NO ASSURANCE YOU’LL DO AS WELL. IF YOU RELY UPON OUR FIGURES, YOU MUST ACCEPT THE RISK OF NOT DOING AS WELL.
WHERE SPECIFIC INCOME FIGURES ARE USED, AND ATTRIBUTED TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR BUSINESS, THOSE PERSONS OR BUSINESS HAVE EARNED THAT AMOUNT. THERE IS NO ASSURANCE YOU’LL DO AS WELL. IF YOU RELY UPON OUR FIGURES; YOU MUST ACCEPT THE RISK OF NOT DOING AS WELL
ANY AND ALL CLAIMS OR REPRESENTATIONS, AS TO INCOME EARNINGS ON THIS WEBSITE, ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED AS AVERAGE EARNINGS.
THERE CAN BE NO ASSURANCE THAT ANY PRIOR SUCCESSES, OR PAST RESULTS, AS TO INCOME EARNINGS, CAN BE USED AS AN INDICATION OF YOUR FUTURE SUCCESS OR RESULTS.”
Oh look, James from Sydney, on the ning forum…the one who was going to “do it all himself”…is asking for financial assistance.
If only I had a dollar for every time someone from that forum has asked for financial help…
So if both ASIC and Fair Trading are investigating LLI, can they order them to give us refunds?
Technically Liberty League no longer exist so I wouldn’t put much faith on anything worthwile coming out of any current investigation. Put your case in writing to them so at least you will have your foot in the door if anything positive happens. Good luck!
Ta, seems doubtful. Ridiculous how they can re-badge they’re dodgy outfit and keep on scamming…
Amazing that Lifepath havent been shown up as well as they are in the same industry with a similar structure and compensation plan with over inflated products and thrive on bagging others for their advertising which is fascinating for a company that promotes personal development but same type of scam none the less. And are ex LLI’ers
There is so much of this. In Michigan, I seen an advertisement in the form of signs in the grass on street corners. It said something along the lines of “Make Executive Level Incomes” from home (or something along that line.
It only had a number to call. The number is: (removed).
So I Googled the number and it led me to MYFINANCIALARCHITECTS. So naturally I had to see what this was.
I knew it was on the lines of an MLM type business. So then I looked at the testimonials and began Googling them and low and behold, there was a pattern and familiar names and faces that were linked to ones many of you mentioned here.
Which when I did my search also found this forum so I thought to put my findings here to inform people as well.
I have tried the MLM’s (That say they are not)and don’t want honest people to get scammed. I lost so much money trying to “build my business” that let me to major credit card debt due to buying product and motivational CRAP!
So if your from Michigan beware..
I seen this link to a man named Mark Wendell, MYFINANCIALARCHITECTS.
I was on Seek recently and came across an ad for a Business Associate which sounded suspicious and intriguing. It was through a well known Employment Agency so I thought it should be legit, but was still doubtful. During a very quick phone call I was told it wasn’t a job but a networking opportunity where you buy resources that help with life fulfilment and then you look for others to do the same.
Sound familiar to anyone??? They ‘weren’t allowed’ to tell me who their ‘client’ was, but I can assure you I’m keeping well away and have alerted Seek to another dodgy ad. Things must be hard all round if employment agencies are being used and worse still, they are taking whoever this company is, on as a client.
This is the job ID, it was advertised in Brisbane in the sales category.
Hmm, Drake recruitment seem to be a legit recruiting company.
I wonder which associate managed to pull that one off (and what it cost them!).
I met Rachel Oliver & Lynn McFarlane Smith at a “free” seminar back in Dec 2008. For supposedly extremely wealthy people people, they rented some crummy room in an office building in St Kilda with no air conditioning and then the “sell” began! The hard push to be a winner not a loser!
I sat and watched the faithful nod their heads (including me) and the smart ones leave… After nearly 2 hours it was over, Yes, they were inspirational! So was Charles Manson to his faithful followers!
The evening was finished up with a Xmas party at a local pub in Albert Park where nothing was on the house.. You paid for everything yourself. For someone earning over a $180,000 US in the month of September alone surely a few bottles of wine and a few beers wouldn’t have broken their banks to thank their downlines who earned them all that money!
As I had to drive I didn’t drink so I sat back & listened to the most vacuous empty headed self absorbed people discussing what they were going to spend their money on! Give to Charity, NO! It was all boob jobs, tanning salons, hair replacement, nails done, waxing and sitting on their asses doing sweet FA! And don’t get me started on what the women were talking about! It was then that the pennies started dropping and bells clanging as to exactly what kind of people LLI’s are. Slick sales people who would sell their own grandmothers soul as long as it got them another sale… Disgusting…
They only answer your calls if you want to purchase another ticket.. otherwise, you’re on your own. Helping people, my ass! Helping destroy marriages, families and people is what my months & months of extensive research has shown me.. Thank you so much Soapbox for uncovering this for what it really is.
I checked out the ACCC website a long time ago, before I was going to give them $30,000 AU and their description of a pyramid scheme fits perfectly with how LLI works and the fine for being a part of it made sure I backed away. Anyone who bags me out and says that it’s all about me being agrieved cos I didn’t make it as a LLIer, I’m glad! Who would want to sprout their garbage!
Well done J you’re a wise man. I wish I was as wise as you were when I was ‘tagged and released’. I suffered enormously as a result however hearing your story has provided a sense of satisfaction and made me feel that by all us sharing our stories we’ve been able help others avoid destroying their lives. Your story means a lot!
Thanks Steve, just a quick word though,I’m a woman and was very lucky that my husband was supportive of me through it all even though he had his doubts from the start.
I was a part of the LLI lifepage made by Tony Rush. When I went on their after Black Saturday saying i didn’t care about making my business explode when I had listened to my friends screaming as fireballs exploded past their heads and I couldn’t care less about directing people to my phone line as people died trying to use a phone to call for help and I saw first hand what it did to people who tried to help them and spoke to people who lost families(being part of the SES).
I was quickly vitrolled by these so called loving group of people to go away and how dare I come on their site being negative… But the upshot was, there were quite a few others who thanked me and were finally honest with themselves and me, how broke, disillusioned they really were and left LLI…
“It was all boob jobs, tanning salons, hair replacement, nails done, waxing and sitting on their asses doing sweet FA! And don’t get me started on what the women were talking about!” Haha!! I love the implication that the men were planning boob jobs….
They are defintely a breed to their own!!
I hope that my words will help others get rid of any shame they may be feeling about being scammed.. Just like victims of horrendous assaults, the feeling that it was our fault is something they thrive on.
Knowing that people won’t want to admit to being vunerable and will keep it to themselves as they continue on their merry path of destruction and taking advantage of people’s weakness about wanting to be financially secure…There is nothing shameful about admitting that you were used and abused!
The strength it takes to be open & honest about being duped is the best way to get over it and the feeling you get from helping someone else avoid going through what some of us have, more than makes up for any guilt you may be carrying! Even if it just one person. For as the saying goes, “To the whole world, you may be just one person, but to one person, you may be the whole world”
I’m glad it never cost me my marriage or my family but I know plenty of people who lost everything…Their self worth being the biggest loss… I sleep well at night knowing that I never cost anyone anything as no-one joined up under me…Keep up the fight to keep this insidious disease from our country!
I’d rather spend my money putting up bandit signs telling everyone to beware and not the ones that the other groups put up trying to direct you to their own schemes! Anyway you cut it, they are all as bad as each other.
LLI,(now Polaris), Emerald, LifePath, Vacations,etc… All a bunch of scum sucking lying filthy greedy &*%holes who’s only intent is to seperate vunerable people from their money and families, just like Scientologists do…
I love your passion J! I agree totally with your sentiments.
We need to kill this cancer before it spreads and overwhelmes other poor unsuspecting victims!!!
if commercial tv won’t touch the story , go to the ABC , 4 Corners, Australian Story , Lateline …… to be honest the commercial guys wil touch the story , some think just because they advertise they won’t , bull , they’ve done expose on Cars , white goods , keep trying make the calls , ring talkback radio
There seems to be a lot of big names in this business but what about the person who bought this dodgy business to Australia? I believe her name is Kaz Spence from the Gold Coast. I’m pretty sure her daughter is in the business too, Melinda Spence. I’m unsure to why the person who actually introduced this business and has costed Australians millions of dollars just seems to fly under the radar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4AxJcV7LzM. I met once – not nice, very fake.
This website is a crack up. Thanks for your entertaining rants. But seriously, are you putting others down to build yourself up?? Everytime I check out your website I am amazed at how easily people jump on the latest bandwagon just to complain about someone, something, whatever. As long as you feel better about yourself I guess!! There really has to come a time when people stop blaming their circumstances on others…
And I am sure that is the reason you keep coming back- correct?
Surely it cannot be because this site is one of the major players in creating a clear and open discussion about PMG- therefore airing all of it’s dirty laundry?
Which would be extremely infuriating for you (if you are in PMG/ Scientology which I am guessing you are by your post)and the urge to look is just too strong…?
This website is actually devoted to exposing those who build themselves up by bringing others down. Similar to undertone of your comments acutally.
To the contrary of your astute observations, the commentary on this site does not reflect anyone trying to ‘build themselves up’ at the expense of others. This is glaringly obvious. There is nobody on this site ‘feeling better about themselves’ by expressing a point of view based on reliving a personal experience of being misinformed resulting in their misfortunate.
I’m glad this site ‘crack’s you up’ however it’s not unreasonable by any mesaure to hold those to account for their devious behaviour, hence this forum.
Your comments demonstrate the same attitude of those exposed here who RELY on being deceitful to ‘build themselves up’. Your motivations are clear and I would say that your lack of intelligent input signals to me that a site such as this is quite threatening to you and your ‘kind’.
Good things happened to bad people and bad things happened to good people. Your obvious subscription to ‘making things happen’ coupled with your lack of compassion will ensure that your karma scale finds equilibrium in due course. If ‘things’ are good now then there is only way for you.
Your commentary cracks me up!
Hey Kim – how many people have subscribed to your”personal development products” only to find they have been duped into a business which is a front for Scientology? Hope that cracks you up!
Rachel Oliver has mislead associates for far too long. Now she is lying everytime she gets on a call about her income, her lead generation, denying polaris has anything to do with scientology. Rachel and her EMC friends (bum suckers) are doing everything they can to avoid legal action being taken against them for refunds of conference tickets. How low people will go to protect there dirty money.
Some people have got their money back, some people haven’t. Seems to be if you threaten them with legal action or an interview with a prominant tv show running a story on Polaris then the refund seems to come back pretty quick.
If you are looking into Polaris run the other way fast! It is a very expensive brainwashing cult. People have been mislead and hurt quite badly. You can not call a cult/religion Personal Development it is wrong wrong wrong!
Tottaly Discusted: You are being very extreme in your comments. You only serve to marginalize more people and create a martyr type feeling for pmg. From the outside looking in, it seems negativity such as yours has reached its peak when it comes to pmg. One of 2 things will happen, pmg will crack or become a bigger stronger and profitable company. Most likely they will become a bigger more profitable company because all the negative stuff that can come out is already out.
6 months from now they will probably still be in business and twice as big. This is the power of bad press and negativity, it is a 2 edge sword.
That’s what I thought back when NSW Fair Trading declared Liberty League a pyramid scheme… that was months ago.
So glad I don;t listen to all this negative crap – do people put things out their to prevent others from success? if your fear prevents you from living the life you dream of, fine, but get over it and don’t stop others achieving huge success.
i have proven this industry and anyone can be hugely successful. I am a 7 figure income earner, and know if I can do it, anyone can 🙂
hats off to those doing what it takes to achieve their goals!
To Your Success!
Yeah sure thing, and I’m Santa Clause.
Oops gotta go I got the Easter Bunny calling me on the phone.
You are a liar… and if you not liar then you are lying thief.
Which is it?
Aaahhh bless! the exuberance of a new recruit….
A seven figure income since 9/9/09?? I seriously doubt it.
Have a super awesome day now.
children settle – the point is that PMG is proven to be a front for the church of Scientology – that is it .
Wow – that’s really saying something. As the Smart’s – the top earners who won the car (apparently just on a 2 year lease) have had to diversify into other ventures, as the one income stream was not enough.
Please do tell…. what fantastic opportunity are they now involved in??
I have to say though that paying for a personal trainer and chef and gardener and nanny and lord knows what else would certainly require a massive income…. then again if all these things are only visualisations… ah well, Sue is the only one who knows the answer to that!
On her Facebook page, someone has commented her about joining Dubli. And I have also heard she has joined 2 others as well – the ones that alot of ex-Polarisites have defected to. I never knew about the chef, gardener, & nanny – yip sure is an expensive lifestyle to uphold. She will be a busy wee thing!
Freedom Rider sounds very like Rachel Oliver – or maybe that was the idea.
Oz, can you explain how the link b/w PMG & Scientology has been proven? I am curious to know how people know this.
Also, now that LLI is no longer and PMG has taken its place, can anyone tell me if I would be entitled to a refund from LLI or only PMGers are getting refunds?
Hey Carla, apart from Krider sending out that email and himself being the author (co-author?) of the Beyond Freedom products there’s also some other evidence. I go into it a bit more here.
Racheal – do you ever stop to think of the hundreads of poeple that you 7 figures come from that are financially scrwed becuase of you predatory delusion?
Tony Rush, John Lavenia and Shannon Lavenia have resigned from Polaris Media Group (used to be Liberty League International).
When ownership of the company split when it became Polaris, I found a connection with Scientology so that’s worth checking it out to see if it is correct.
I was with LLI and subsequently Polaris, I couldn’t stand the hype, I don’t want to be a six figure “chick” in fact I don’t want to be called a “chick” at all.
I found Polaris released a web site that hadn’t been beta tested, it caused a lot of people a lot of stress for weeks and tied up a lot of money that had to be unravelled and to their credit, they did refund … eventually, but it took me 3 months to get mine and as I’d cancelled the order it shouldn’t have been necessary, the goods still arrived but they didn’t want them back (freight costs), so I gave them to someone that could use them.
You need $45,000 to get off the ground with Polaris, I was lead to believe I could work my way up but it’s too painful and in all honesty if I didn’t want/couldn’t lay my hands on that sort of money how could I expect others too.
It can’t be right to lie to your bank manager about needing a nose job to get a loan to pay for a product!
It’s a true story, I heard it on a call from the guy that did just that and he was so proud of himself. A personal development business that causes a person to lie?
You don’t borrow money to join someone else’s business, it’s like borrowing money to buy shares, you’ve got to be prepared to take the loss. A few have found financial freedom with this organisation, good luck to them.
I’ve moved on and I’m grateful for what I learned about business with LLI/Polaris as it has put me on the right track and now I know what to avoid.
Your link goes to DubLi, so I doubt that. From one scam to another…
Glad you went to the link but this is not a scam. For someone in Australia that recently bought a $47,000 luxury car for $1,106.75c, how scammy is that? More like JAMMY!
If you look at any job you’re building somebody else’s dream, let’s not get cynical on this web page just because a business operates a little differently, just let’s be honest.
I know the background of Dubli and what it offers customers and business associates and I know what the outlay is from the very start, there’s no hidden agendas, if there had been then my web site would not have taken you where it did.
I should have also said that Gene Braxton has also left Polaris. Interesting.
A recent article on Dubli
@Rachel This should help you make your mind up about Dubli – forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1278895
As Roly would say…. I’ll just leave this here then!
Happy New Year all!!
This is really interesting stuff. I was an LLI/PMG associate too! I left when LLI changed over to PMG partly due to the MLM factor, but also because I made very little in the 14 mths I was involved, although I ‘positioned myself’ at all 3 levels, approx $40,000 AUD.
Wish I had known better really, I am still in debt today!
I can happily say that I have learnt my lesson! I’m clearing the debt (albeit slowly) and getting my certificate to become a travel agent. Good, honest work!
Alot of us on here can relate to your experience. Good for you that you’re clearing the debt and hopefully this will help rid some of the pain of the LLI/PMG ‘experience’.
Wishing you and everyone on here a fantastic 2010!!!
Most of the people that were part of sixfigurechicks have moved over to Dubli. Very dubious.
Also sixfigurechicks owners had her accounts frozen and was closed down. Beware of Dubli – the sixfigurechicks brainchild’s name is Rania Elzahar and she is in charge of the AU/NZ marketing for Dubli – it will be the same scammy stuff.
I believe they have already started marketing on Foxtel.
There is a new product called “think freedom” that appears to be very similar in substance(or lack thereof) to these scams. Have a look and make up your own mind.
just looked it up , its Polaris , notice how no prices are mentioned on the site except for the el cheapo dvd, if they mentioned the prices of the conferences etc , everyone would be scared off, (well you’d think they would )
This is a fabulous forum, although it has taken me some time to read, I stuck with it because it was fascinating. What a great resource.
I would like the thank all the contributors, for their testy, fun, intelligent and sometimes brave comments. It takes a lot to admit you made a mistake, but what a great deed you do for others when you fess up. I really respect that, and I don’t like the tactic that you get blamed for your failure, that sucks.
Those people who have gone public playing the blame game should be ashamed… there are lots of people willing to give things a go, to be ripped off and then blamed as if it is all your fault, is really aweful.
I do not have a sad story to tell, quite the opposite. I am setting up a company that sells a self development software product that we developed and I was looking at multi level marketing or network marketing as an honest and fair way of distributing our software and rewarding our sales people, who would be selling mainly word of mouth or as part of their already established and compatible self development businesses.
It is a great shock to find that these shonky people are robbing people under the guise of selling self development/improvement product. It makes life for people who honestly want to use network marketing very difficult.
I was going to share 50% of sales price with the sales person. I never saw it as a make massive money quick scheme, just something that could help people and add some income to their business too…. But how hard is my job when there is this sort of shenaickins going on? I really like some of the ideas in mult level marketing, but from what I can see, some very greedy and unethical people have given it a really bad name.
I will continue my investigations and research, and I very grateful to you for exposing the underbelly and giving me anther perspective.
P.S I found my way here after Paul Mantel approached us, and when I researched him, his company website and his name I found you, but you are a long way down the Google listing, what a shame. I am pleased I persisted with my search, there really needs to be more out there, but I guess, it is buyer beware.
That’s hard for some people who may be vunerable.
I a very pleased to say my web site, unlike Paul’s is very clear about the product we are selling and there is no mention of making lots of money or a fabulouis lifestyle. Please remember there are honest people trying to make a living or a part time income, ethically, from MLM.
P.S. These sites are still operating, I thought they were illegal?
http://www.livelifeco.com/ and others like http://www.nextbigboombiz.com/yonika-paul-mantel.html are still out there recruiting and if you fill in the forms they are onto you within 24 hours.
There is another one,
They are advertising on 106.3 FM Radio in canberra.
Yonika & Paul, Lennox Head NSW testimonials.
Dave the web site designer is also based in Lennox Head NSW
Why can’t these people be stopped?
Mostly I think because they’re not mentioning Polaris specifically on their ad and Foxtel are willing to turn a blind eye as there’s money exchanging hands.
On a related note Macau started yesterday, wonder how that’s going.
So what happened to the NSW Fair Trading investigation?
From my end, despite lodging several cases with various government departments in two Australian states, I never heard back from them.
Any attempts to contact them and enquire were met with ‘we’ll forward your case to a higher level, someone will contact you’ replies.
Nobody ever did.
As far as I know to date no government department has made any announcement or released anything publicly in regards to Polaris.
Your guess is as good as mine for the lack of communication on their part.
I found this
I have rung NSW Department of fair Trading and asked whatever happened to their investigation?
As a former lobbyist, PR and Journlist, I think this press release is worded very carefully to give the impression that something is being done, when nothing but “looking” is happening and, this is a CYA exercise. Cover Your Arse. So Minister and Department alike can say, we told you, we warned you, in case the shit hits the fan.
Basically nothing can be done unless some poor sucker, who has had their money vaccummed still has the guts and self esteem to stand before a court, risk further loss and say, these guys are scamsters.
They operate on our complaceny.
It must be very difficult for Government Departments to keep up with companies that move state and just set up a new web address. But there are tell tale signs on the web site
No phone number
No product price
No Free Trial
Lavish lfestyle promises and pictures of goodies and kids…in exotic holiday locations.
YOU on the other hand MUST Leave tonnes of information about yourself….And are carefully processed to ensure you are subservient, compliant and obedient (Coachable they call it). Unless you read this web site you would not realise the testimonials are given by the same people in the last scam business…
The Direct Selling Association of Australia should also be accountable for the rats in the pack and publically name and shame, they would be doing themselves a favour and showing they have the guts to self regulate.
It makes me so mad this sort of stuff, because it is so damaging on so many levels…. yet there is nothing but a sea of complacency, from individuals, government, minister’s courts and industry….so we deserve what we get I suppose.
Anyone up for a real fight?
The above quote is from the website mentioned by Cas above. http://www.thinkfreedom.com.au/positive-media.php
This is typical $cientology gobbeldygook. Just google scientology + at cause, to see for yourself. All hail Xenu!
I managed to somehow get written confirmation that the NSW Dept of Fair Trading examined and decided LLI was a pyramid scheme within the guidelines of the Fair Trading Act.
See: Liberty League a scam in Oz, Polaris Media Group next?
I can’t say with any certainty that my getting hold of that letter had anything to do with the press release but at the time I received it the office was denying any investigation ever even took place.
As for a real fight, so far I’ve just read mostly talk on the subject. From what I gather most people who leave the company are just trying to quietly move on and forget they ever came across the ‘business opportunity’.
Im not Polaris/Libertyleague nor a Scientologist Boris but I wouldnt call that statement “gobbeldygook”. I think its very very true.
What this passage is saying in essence is Being self determined and successful is much better than being a “wage slave”. Bloody helll! …Who wouldnt agree with that !
p.s Im a “wage slave”
Oz , looks like your the one making an assumption. no idea where you pulled the MLM reference from. Im not in MLM. I didnt mention MLM…maybe you have MLM on the brain mate !
Being self determined/successful is generic.
The “wage slave” reference is to infer there are those who are unhappy in their jobs. Its not intended as a sweeping generalisation. To be precise I should have said “being self determined/successful is better than going to a job you hate every day” …Bloody helll! …Who wouldnt agree with that !
also you wrote:
“It’s marketing spiel with the sole purpose of associating all other types of work as unfulfilling slave work for lazy unsuccsessful people.”
yes in this context its marketing but as a statement unto itself its true enough.
i agree with the statement except i think the “at cause ” wording is a little odd although i understand what they are getting at. maybe phrases like “laser focused” or “fully realised”. Actually Bruce Lee used to talk about being “fully realised” in the context of martial arts, to be a fully realised person/martial artist…is it goobledygook from him too?
Actually this is more of a philosophical question than goobledygook
Apparently, the way the system works, someone has to take them to court, prove it is a pryamid and then they are prosecuted. It would be good if all those quietly moving on, got their stories together to present a “case.”
Department of Fair Trading has a complaint proedure which they are obliged to investigate…the more evidence, the better the chances of closing them down. It would be even better if DSAA did what it was supposed to do, and self regulate.
That’s your problem right there. The assumption that anyone not participating in a MLM business is not self determined nor succesful and is simply a ‘wage slave’.
It’s marketing spiel with the sole purpose of associating all other types of work as unfulfilling slave work for lazy unsuccsessful people. There’s plenty of alternative honest rewarding careers out there.
The aim of my post was to show the subtle links which exist between Scientology and Polaris, and which may not be obvious to some people.
On the surface this may appear an innocuous phrase, but in $cientology, jargon is everything. LRH Tech, Sea Org., Witholds etc are examples of terms used by scientology which mean almost nothing to those outside the cult. “at cause” or “on purpose” may appear to mean one thing but in scientology they mean something else.
Check out this link for more info. It’s not an easy read but will go some way to explaining what I mean. Throughout the essay one can substitute “polaris” for “scientology” without altering the fundamental understanding of the piece.
Well I never said you were part of MLM. The quote came from a Polaris Media Group distributor and in the context of the company itself that’s where MLM came from.
No it’s not intended as a sweeping generalisation but it’s intended to ‘attract’ people who are vulnerable and more susceptible to handing over large amounts of money on broken promises and theoretical possibilities.
The success rates in this business do not match the testimonials offered. As of 2008 3% of the company made 45% of the income. The vast majority of associates made less then $35,000.
Yes, being self determined and succesful is obviously better then going to a job you hate but let’s not remove it from the context of the subject matter we are discussing here.
Let’s say 97% of Toyota cars have problems braking. We can also agree that driving a car to get somewhere is more convenient then walking.
That doesn’t mean that driving a Toyota car somewhere is universally the better option.
That’s the connection the self determined and succesful statement attempts to plant in your mind. That the only alternative to working a wage job is to be self determined and successful working for Polaris.
The wording ‘at cause’ is neither odd nor unintentional. There are strong ties between Polaris Media Group and Scientology. See: ‘Polaris Media Group Publicly Linked to Scientology‘ and ‘Polaris Media Group CEO admits he is a Scientologist‘.
The phrase ‘at cause’ is without doubt a Scientology phrase. See: ‘Are you at cause or at effect?‘
I believe it’s continued use underlines the thin veil between religious indoctrination and secular personal development that certain Polaris Media Group distributors seem to be dancing all over.
Mind you, recruiting for Scientology if you’re open about it is fine. Doing so subtly in the guise of secular personal development is something I object to.
The problem is when people who are genuinely trying to Realize their potential are suckered into pryamid schemes with self development products as a front.
Jerry and Sue Smart were in Amway/Network21.
At least Amway has genuinely great products, and it is impossible to loose money. If someone joins Amway, or buys an Amway product and they are not satisfied, there is a 90 day money back satisfaction guarantee(its called integrity and ethics).
A guarantee that I am sure is not available in Liberty League.
If somebody buys a product and uses it a bit and then wants to return it, surely the distributor then cops the loss or if Amyway themselves accept returns then the company takes the loss?
Somebody always loses money on returns.
Can I have a copy of that letter? Please? I am still trying to get details from Dept Fair Trading….
You sure can, I included a copy of it with the original post!
Can’t find it….
The letter features on the article ‘Liberty League a scam in Oz, Polaris Media Group next?‘.
DUBLI DUBLI DUBLI DUBLI, what is the deal with them, love to hear more about it, does anyone know about it, my friend started doing it, he is ex LLI and POLARIS, funny enough does not say too much about that anymore,told him they were crap from the start, thanks ozsoap you gave me plenty of facts and questions to fire at him lol,so is it just the same crap rehashed???
Dubli from what I understand is a reverse auction typre thing. You bet an amount and if your bet is the lowest unique bet then you win the item for whatever amount you bet. I think you have to pay a fee to see the current lowest unique bet before you can place your own.
Dubli’s got nothing to do with Polaris other then a whole bunch of Polaris Distributors seem to have wound up there after the Scientology and Polaris Media story broke.
I’ve kinda got my hands full at the moment between Australian current events, cycling, Polaris Media Group and Taiwan to take some time out and investigate Dubli so I won’t be writing about it anytime soon. Then there’s Brent Payne’s new company too. If Payne’s new company looks anything like Polaris you can add that to the list of topics I’ll try to cover…
Another one to add to the list seems to be Wealth Masters, crappy CDs overpriced functions at “exotic” locations.
for your prompt reply know your busy,
I think a seperate MLM site would be great, as you know, alot of people seem to get douped into them, and exposing them quickly like this seems to be the only way of warning consumers
keep up the good work!!!
Great post Oz and great comments all!
I came here indirectly from this site about Dubli – http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/25/dubli-another-complex-scam
Goes well with the other whirlpool.net.au site the original Martin mentioned above. Buyer beware.
Thanks for the insights and research. I got sucked in when they started talking about the Law of Attraction. Such blatant emotional manipulation!
Hi guys. I have just spent 2 hours reading all the posts, thank for all the info.
I became a “Paltinum” in the Amway business, the same time Jerry & Sue Smart became “Emeralds” in Amway (in 2006-2007) – different lines of sponsorships, and then i heard rumours that they were terminated by Amway because they were involved in another business, that’s what got me searching for reasons (Of why the would look outside of Amway if they reached Emerald level apparently making heaps of money), and that’s how i found them with the ucan2 business.
So, all though i was intrigued with the Smart’s new business model (Thinking it would be a major departure from the Amway model), i have read all the posts above which helps me make an informed decision.
Perhaps someone should start a thread on the con that Amway can be as well, & people’s experiences with that. Thanks guys.
Hey Garp, thanks for sharing your experience.
You might want to check out my other blog, BehindMLM. I’m the sole writer so it’s going to take a while for me to increase the scope of MLM/Network marketing companies I take a look out, but it’s a work in progress.
Heard from anyone who has taken the story to any reputable media groups. Anyone still interested? Seems people like Oliver and McKenzie have gone offshore so the ACAs probably wouldn’t be bothered finding them.
Nope. Any official action seems to have fizzled away into nothingness.
Very sad indeed.