Achieve Community Review: $50 straight-line cycler
The Achieve Community launched earlier in July 2014 and are based out of the US state of Michigan.
Listed as co-founders of Achieve Community on their website are Troy Barnes and Kristi Johnson (right).
On his Facebook profile, Barnes credits himself as a “Bronze” in Skinny Body Care (weight loss). Prior to that Barnes was marketing Empower Network (2-up cash gifting).
This was around 2011, with Barnes more recently (late 2013) promoting Tan Banners (4 tier 2-up recruitment scheme).
Kristi Johnson meanwhile, prior to the launch of the Achieve Community, was involved in Quanta ($25-$495 cash gifting).
was involved in something called “We The People Downline Club” mid last year.
It appears to be a downline builder for various recruitment driven schemes.
As above, the promotional material I saw featuring Kristi Johnson’s name boasted of the creation of 600 affiliates in an Xplocial downline ($29-$100 cash gifting).
Earlier in the year Johnson used We The People Downline Club to push “Pro Matrix Plus”, a $25 matrix-cycler pyramid scheme.
We the People Downline Club is joining Pro Matrix Plus as a group right now.
Join the downline for free and then Pro Matrix Plus for a one time fee of $25.00 and no monthly costs! You will need a Secure Trust Pay account and the fees for that and using it to fund your Pro Matrix Plus membership are usually about $6.00, so your total cost to join up are $31.00.
That’s all you ever pay and the payouts for Pro Matrix Plus grow from $25.00 for your first cycle all the way to one million dollars! You can stay in Pro Matrix Plus forever for that one fee, and continue to cycle.
Then We the People Downline Club builds your downline for you with everyone else in the group, moving you through Pro Matrix Plus. It is a 2×2 matrix, so once you have your two people and they have their two your matrix is full and you cycle.
Going back even further, Johnson was involved with Level 9 App ($7.95 a month + $2 qualifier to earn recruitment commissions).
In going through both Barnes and Johnson’s MLM histories, I definitely was feeling the “shiny new thing” vibe.
Now, with the launch of Achieve Community, it seems both Barnes and Johnson have decided to run their own company instead of joining countless others.
Read on for a full review of the Achieve Community MLM business opportunity.
The Achieve Community Product Line
The Achieve Community has no retailable products or services.
Affiliates join by purchasing $50 cycler queue positions. Bundled with these queue positions is access to an e-book library:
We will have a library of products and training for you with new products every month.
The Achieve Community Compensation Plan
The Achieve Community Compensation Plan operates as a straight line cycler. Whereas your typical cycler operates on a single level however (one commission), the Achieve Community cycler uses a three-tier commission structure.
After an affiliate purchases a $50 position in the cycler queue, after fifteen subsequent positions are purchased they are paid $100 (tier 1).
After 260 subsequent positions have been purchased (relative to the original position), another $100 is paid out (tier 2).
Another 255 subsequent positions and $200 is paid out (tier 3).
At this point an affiliate must purchase additional cycler queue positions if they wish to continue with the Achieve Community income opportunity.
Joining The Achieve Community
Affiliate membership with the Achieve community requires the purchase of at least one cycler queue position ($50).
Conclusion
The Achieve Community is the only place, not only on the internet but in the world, where you can take a $50 bill and make as much money as you want.
No effort, no recruiting… none of that. No building downlines, you don’t have to do anything here.
-Troy Barnes, an Achieve Community marketing video
E-book libraries… straight-line cycler compensation… it’s not easy to see how Troy Barnes and Kristi Johnson’s MLM histories have influenced the Achieve Community.
At its simplest, you’re looking at a $50 buy-in pyramid scheme.
The Achieve Community affiliates purchase a position in the cycler queue and then via the collective recruiting efforts of affiliates in the company get paid when enough subsequent positions have been purchased.
The charade of products being purchased falls apart when one considers that multiple positions can be purchased by affiliates. Marketing videos on the Achieve Community website recommend affiliates purchase bulk lots of up to 16 positions at a time.
Make no mistake, affiliates are purchasing positions in a straight-line cycler queue, with any products or services bundled simply an attempt at pseudo-compliance.
That’s not going to fool any regulators that take a look at the Achieve Community and it shouldn’t fool you either.
As with all pyramid schemes, once the recruitment of new affiliates slows down those with existing positions in the queue will find it impossible to cycle out. This kills off re-investment in positions by existing affiliates, which only adds to the problem.
Unique to straight-line cyclers is also the fact that over time more and more positions are added to the queue, resulting in longer and longer cycle times. This is a natural mechanic inherent to straight-line cyclers which causes them to collapse faster than a regular pyramid scheme.
Eventually what happens is the entire queue grinds to a halt and whatever money is then trapped in uncycled positions is there for the admins to make off with.
Dead cycler queues don’t pay out commissions.
if people would just read the site and see right from these founders own words you have to wait until we recruit enough people for people to get paid.
in their own words from the faq’s if this doesn’t describe a ponzi i don’t know what does, unbelievable.
lol another teambuild BS …
when will people learn…
So they admit to being a recruitment driven scheme. How refreshing.
Kristi was in One24 also
NOLINK://www.ibosocial.com/jkristi
The Achieve Community rocks – made 1200 this weekend (in the bank) from 3 positions from Aug 21.
This is a whole new paradigm – the more positions, the faster is goes – it does not slow down, so will not halt. All these scam searching sites will eat crow on this one.
And who buys the positions? Affiliates.
Quit deluding yourself. Of course once recruitment slows down it will halt. Achieve community, no more than any other pyramid scheme out there, cannot generate money out of thin air.
Right. Because Achieve Community is above the laws of mathematics.
Said thing is as normal they have facebook groups full of cheerleaders. Even when you explain the math behind why these “cyclers” always fail.
Seems they would rather listen to people say how many have been paid even when the person in question has not been paid a dime.
Taking note of the FAQ itself saying that you may not be paid for months means nothing to these people. From what I see so far a great majority of these people are “reinvesting” earned money.
That is what keeps increasing the stats on what has been paid out. Yet these funds have not truly left the system for the most part.
So it’s the usual “HAY GUYS I GOT PAID ELEVENTY BILLION DOLLARS IN MONOPOLY MONEY!$!’ crap…
Yo, idiots in Achieve Community: numbers on screen != money.
Once McDonalds’s stops “recruiting” people to eat their hamburgers, it will “halt and shut down”, they are going to “need new money” to pay off earlier investors (ponzi), there will be no more money to flow up to the “pyramid scheme”.
Wake up, every business needs new and repeat business to survive. Achieve is not above mathematics, they just use new mathematics which includes a triple -algorithm which has a feature that the more positions the faster it goes.
No complaints at Achieve, everyone Loves it!!
McDonalds is not an MLM company. Retail customers purchasing hamburgers for consumption != affiliates participating in a recruitment-driven MLM income opportunity.
Fail.
Put down your copy of scam excuses 101 and spare us the bullshit.
and just like every other pyramid scheme, will collapse when new affiliates stop joining and purchasing positions.
Right. Until the boom-boom.
New mathematics – I remember a program called “The Golden Path” that claimed they had a math genius so the program would never stall or fail and it didn’t last 6 months.
Even if they could get the entire planet buying positions the line is getting exponentially longer. Where will the money come from if everyone is holding positions that have to be paid out?
The hype machine can only last so long before it folds up upon itself. The main winners here are the ones that dumped their funds in first and fast.
A few months from now people will be crying where is my money.
Since when does McD pay people to eat their burgers?
You seem to got the direction of money flow BACKWARDS. Does your brain run backwards too? Black is white and all that?
The algorithm is designed that the more positions purchased the faster it goes.
The irony of Achieve is, they wonder about stalling because of glut – nope the matrix just moves faster. Positions can be purchased with a time-stamp based in a Pico-second – one trillionth of a second. All smart money gets in early, it will be a while until they stall out in picoseconds.
Even if they did, they can start Matrix Two.
Tempted yet boys? They have a wonderful array of products, you can purchase time-based positions for access to the products, when you cycle out of the Exit Matrix, you will earn 800%.
You can put all the time stamps on it. The more positions placed the more that have to be placed to pay more positions placed.
Like a cat chasing its tail – it won’t ever catch it.
The only thing I see is a person trying to convince us he has paid money into something special when really its more smoke n mirrors of the same thing from the past.
Why don’t we time stamp when people are getting paid from when money was deposited. I bet you will see things getting slower and slower. Yet I am sure they don’t want anyone to notice that.
I mean who wants to spend money today and wait for 6 or 7 months. I am sure this won’t last that long.
Bloody hell…
It’s got nothing to do with glut, quite the opposite. Once recruitment dies down nobody new is buying positions. That’s what triggers the collapse.
Yeah that’s great. It’s still a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
Just like any other pyramid scheme… although smart isn’t the right adjective.
The people who “get in early” on pyramid schemes have no qualms about ripping off those who join after them. Shameless.
Pyramid scheme, i.e. each refer 2, grows exponentially too. So what exactly *have* you proven, hmmm?
K Chang, have proven you can label anything a pyramid scheme – all money flows to the top of any company.
In all reality, Achieve is the opposite, 100% earnings are paid to all members equally based on their positions sequentially.
The owners purchase positions like everyone else. It is altruistically created. Payouts as of this morning are down to 61 days now and getting faster.
Think of all that money made by early investors in any company that was successful, and those that lost after the big push. Shame on those early investors!! Ha Ha…your less than phony tone of concern is deeply laughable.
Gee, no one should purchase a position in any company because some will not make as much as others, or maybe they might not make anything.
The the self-righteousness is thick in here. Loven it!!
Having fun with this one..
That has nothing to do with pyramid schemes. MLM affiliates don’t own the company, nor are they employees.
Any further derail attempts by attempting to compare non-MLM companies with MLM companies will be marked as spam.
based on their recruitment efforts. It’s a pyramid scheme.
Only in pyramid and Ponzi schemes do owners purchase positions and compete against their affiliate-base.
Otherwise they’d draw a salary – owners are management, not affiliates.
Again, trying to draw comparisons between your pyramid scheme and legitimate investment opportunities will get you nowhere.
No, just not in pyramid schemes.
There’s nothing “fun” about committing wholesale fraud. It takes a certain type of individual to use the adjective “fun” to describe the ripping off of people in a pyramid scheme.
I seen many people on fb who join every scam under the sun and by scam I mean plain as day the numbers do not add up.
Scams claiming how the achieve community is so great and how they are being paid so much, when in reality just reading the slightest bit about the company makes real honest people, not your people who say everything is a scam, stop in their tracks.
MLM Ponzi/Pyramid Buzzword Bingo. Again.
Notorious HYIP purveyor Frederick Mann of JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid infamy purportedly had an “algorithm.”
Follow-up scams, including some led by Mann, then declared they had “algorithms.”
“Algorithm” in this context is a fancy-sounding term that helps pyramid/Ponzi fraudsters separate people from their money.
Fred Mann had something like this, too. The troops called it the “Restart” and described it as “proprietary,” a buzzword Zeek also used.
Other “programs” that used “paradigm” included Paradigm Shift, Ultimate Power Profits and — who’d have guessed it? — JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid.
There have been many more.
A current “program” using “paradigm” is “Bitlanders,” something with a Bitcoin theme that claims recruits can “EARN 20% OF THEIR BUZZ SCORE REVENUE FOR LIFE!”
The Zeekers used this shopworn and mindless deflection to which they added the shopworn and mindless “Social Security” deflection. History shows neither shopworn and mindless deflection worked well.
These could go in the MLM Stepfordian Hall of Fame.
Another candidate for the Stepfodian Hall of Fame. Former Zeeker and OneXer T. LeMont Silver currently is using this spittle in his post-Zeek/post-OneX bid to line up people to get swindled in a Bitcoin-themed scam.
PPBlog
First JJP 2012
Zeek 2013
Achieve 2014
There is always something every year.
100% commission? Did you forget that credit cards charges fees? So, its not 100% commission.
I bet the owners are keeping a percentage for themselves and for them to buy positions, that is just telling me that the owners are banking off of the people.
We really don’t know how they are handling the payouts because there is no proof that they are paying out on certain positions sold.
There isn’t any matrix ID, but a member ID. So people can not know exactly how many positions has been sold per day.
Its also funny how these people who protect Achieve doesn’t care about peoples money because “they are adults and they make their own choice” type of attitude. One word… deception.
This program will fail because new people will stop joining. The people who got paid will use their profits to re-purchase more positions but that can only go too far, things will slow.
Also one other thing I would like to show you. I want to give an example how this will fail here…
You do the math – Instead of 528 positions sold which is what achieve says… lets pretend the matrix size is 16 and for every $50 we pay out $100 which is 200% payout.
1. Positions 1-16 pays company $50 = $800
Position one cycles out – pays position 1 $100 now company has $700 in bank.
2.New position purchased for $50 – company now has $750 but they have to pay position 2 $100, so now company has $650 left in bank.
3.New position purchased for $50 – company now has $700 but they have to pay position 3 $100, so now the company has $600
Do you see where I am going with this?
So, in Achieve there are 528 positions in one matrix, that = $26,400 in company bank, do you really think they are paying out on 528 positions sold? I don’t think so.
There is some money being held somewhere but they are still down a lot of money since they are paying out 800% per position that is cycled out.
You have no idea what pyramid scheme actually mean except what your upline told you.
Care to do your own research and use your own brain? Or had the zombies got to you already? (HINT: Money flows up in pyramid scheme, but it doesn’t have to be “top of company”, ref: 8-ball scheme)
Go look in a mirror.
Speed of this seems to be greed and that is a very good example of how and why this will start to slow down as people won’t have more money to keep re-investing as they won’t be getting paid fast enough to keep spending it back in. I wonder where Micheal will be then?
As the Naysayers Nay, Achieve as expected, this evening moved into the 60 day payout mode.
The Achieve Detractors don’t understand and never will, the Triple-Algorithm, which causes the system to speed up the more positions are purchased.
The Naysayers are socially engineered into the old matrix marketing paradigm. Since they are locked into these lower levels of understanding, they can only cluck on and on.
800% Earnings in 60 days now and getting faster.
Bullshit marketing woo doesn’t work here.
Affiliates sign up and purchase positions. Those who cycle out are encouraged to repurchase positions however it all hinges on new money coming in via newly recruited affiliate positions.
You can’t fake simple mathematics.
(Ozedit: Offtopic spam removed)
Of course, you fail to mention that every business always needs new money. And with 800% earnings, there is no problem bringing in that new money. Numbers don’t lie, but people do.
Needing new money is not the issue here, it’s where it’s sourced.
New money via recruitment in MLM = pyramid scheme.
You cannot fake mathematics.
All pyramid and Ponzi schemes pay out initially. If they didn’t, idiots like yourself wouldn’t sign up in the first place.
In this case it is different, it is paid into our bank account, and when you make a redemption as it is a new membre. Ce is not virtual money on a back office.
Each payout relies on a fixed number of new positions to be bought by (primarily) new and existing affiliates.
How is this any different to any other cycler pyramid scheme out there? And don’t give us crap about “triple algorithms” and such.
Like all pyramid schemes, you can’t payout more than you bring in.
And where are the 800% earnings from? “new money”, duh.
You answered the question yourself. You just refuse to see the answer in your own head. Pretty sure you won’t recognize it if it slaps you in the face either.
That’s what Zeekheads did right up to the day Secret Service locked the doors on Zeek Rewards office and sent all the employees home.
In fact, the Zeekheads did it for a few days after, keep insisting that everybody just don’t understand Zeek. One Zeekhead even left a sign on the door “we forgive you, please reorganize and save our dreams.”
You won’t be the last to defend an alleged pyramid scheme. Nobody you enrolled will ever let you forget it. For the rest of your life.
I was invited to the FB group but my posts with questions how this “math” was possible were quickly deleted and as soon as i posted a link to this article i was booted from the community 🙂
I guess they did not want the members to read the truth.
In other words, you’re the financial version of a jihadist suicide bomber, as what you describe in these words would, from an engineering standpoint, be a runaway reaction that is going to detonate.
Imagine that! . . TAC advises to take 1/2 of payout and choose to re-purchase what ever you choose.
Once the initial purchase is paid out at 800% it is win-win. Damn, that is a real bummer . . go figure, huh!
Except for those who are left holding the bag when the scheme collapses.
But as someone who “got in early”, you don’t care about that… or them.
. . and I bet you believe the stock market isn’t rigged as well, and that every business is a scam because it wants your money . .
I know that there is risk, hell, there is risk just getting out of bed to go face the day, so should I not venture out in fear of my future?
As I said, once my initial venture is returned it’s win-win . . I’ll take those odds, whether you like it or not.
Whether the stock market and “every business” is rigged or not is irrelevant to the fact that Achieve Community is a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
Whether you are aware of the risks of participating in pyramid schemes is irrelevant to the fact that Achieve Community is a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
Whether I like those odds or not is irrelevant to the fact that Achieve Community is a recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
Any further strawman arguments will be marked as spam.
And your brand new copy “The Newbie Ponzi Pimps’ Handbook of Excuses” will be confiscated
They got it by osmosis through their upline, LRM. Nothing sort of a detox will get rid of them. 😉
I sussed out it is a new copy because nobody but an absolute first timer newbie ponzi pimp would be silly enough to use up all his / her cliched responses in only two posts
An old hand would have spread his / her nonsense over a week, at least.
The admins are the ones making out here, with NO Financials being shown except by Kristi (a simply rude and hateful individual, who is looking out for no one but herself) and Troy (who has jumped from program to program).
The admins started with multiple positions and are being paid often (I guarantee the admins hold 25% + of all positions being paid!!!! (I know how Kristi Johnson works)……..
There is coming a day real soon, as we have seen with all team builds where it comes to a screaming halt. 15 people a day shown getting paid to the group, but 400 people coming in daily.
They will have built a great database though of people wanting something for nothing and you’ll see the admins jumping ship and leaving 3/4 of the people holding the bag (this will be after they start a 2nd and 3rd matrix once the 1st matrix comes to a halt and then they’ll milk the people for more money)……
The good is, it’s only $50, so people can’t be hurt too bad …. Money Blinds People is all I can say!
@Cbrand – $50 if someone only buys 1 position.. some of these people are taking out big loans to buy lots of positions
What happened to all the Pro-Achieve posts – deleted.
The focus you all have to promote is the people, when it is about positions. Does old money from repeat buy new positions? Ha ha.
One shill did nothing but go on about 800% ROIs. The rest of the astroturfers were determined to ignore the facts and spam.
This happens when scammers migrate here from Facebook and forget this isn’t a marketing platform for their garbage.
If you want to call that “pro-achieve” so be it. Spam is spam.
If you can’t separate yourself from your investment/participation fee and discuss a company rationally, this isn’t the place for you.
Has anyone explained where these date time stamps are from when people buy positions? I have been asking around and I think they do not exist.
This would be a sure way of telling how fast or slow things are getting. It would be interesting to note how long this can go on as compared to other such similar programs.
The script they’re using will date stamp position purchases, but all that’s really relevant is how many positions are in the queue before that position was purchased.
As to the accuracy of the data, it can easily be manipulated on the backend. Only the admins and those who bought the individual positions know when they were purchased.
Over time all cyclers blow out, give it a few months and the usual “why is it taking so long” theme will start up.
Starting a new cycler queue won’t solve anything, as the positions in the queue remains unchanged. Sometimes schemes employ a credit type system but that only temporarily puts off the inevitable.
The “restarts” get closer and closer together until the entire thing becomes a joke. Oh, and ultimately you still lose your money trapped in the queue.
Isn’t it possible that this could work if enough people are purchasing and re-purchasing positions?
It’s an indefinite liability that cannot be paid off and only increases over time.
There’s never “enough people” in a pyramid scheme.
Do you have any sources to back you up on this claim?
I would also like to ask Oz where he got his information on the backgrounds of Troy Barnes and Kristi because there isn’t any sources to any of this information which makes any claims irrelevant.
It “works” in the sense that if you get enough people under you you’ll take their money. Just as your upline took your money (and all the people who joined after them) but somebody will be losers.
And you can workout the ratio yourself.
I think it goes as long as “I GET PAID” it doesn’t matter as then its not a scam. Yet as said before. Each position paid for is a spot that has to be paid out on. So buying more and more positions only makes the problem worse even as respends go.
Then you have the holdback rule of not allowing you to withdraw all your funds as this tactic only allows them to pay a few more people with the money being held back. That is if they don’t run off with it to start another program.
@Carl
Google that shit son.
@Terrence
Getting paid is nether here nor there, an MLM company’s business model determines whether or not it’s a scam.
Well, I see some greedy or desperate people are getting caught up in this scheme and getting seduced by this illogical business model.
I have a decent following online and it’s tempting to say something, but people wouldn’t listen; The power of self deception is strong.
Take a look folks at what is happening now in the Achieve community!
Posts in the FB group are being deleted left and right, I think the cat is out of the bag now.
Unconfirmed: Payoneer has just given Achieve Community the boot. They currently don’t have a payment processor.
No word on whether funds were frozen.
Official FB page is a closed group so I’m not sure what’s getting posted in there.
Payoneer says they cannot handle the amount of funds and TAC has to look for a new processor.
From the Payoneer website:
And they can’t handle the transaction volume of a cycler with a few thousand affiliates?
Pull the other one…
If anyone has a copy of the backoffice announcement it’d be appreciated (either via contact form or posted as a comment).
Cheers.
Posted by admin in the facebook group:
LOL
I replied:
How long till it gets deleted?
Look another!
Apparently no financial institution in THE WORLD can handle a couple million guys.
Do these people have brains? Is this real life? Jesus to thread to confirm.
Do you see the minds I am arguing with here? Obviously these people would defend the system, they’re too stupid to see what is in front of them.
That’s exactly the excuse Zeek used a few months before SEC hit them with the banhammer. And look how well that excused turned out.
Writing’s on the wall… if you have the brain cells to see it.
Current companies that use Payoneer:
Amazon (including the Associates Program and Kindle Direct Publishing / CreateSpace)
PayPal
eBay
Google
2CheckOut
Elance
oDesk
ClickBank
LinkShare
ShareASale
GoDaddy
Digital River (OneNetworkDirect)
AvantLink
BuySellAds
Kontera
BUT CANT HANDLE A COUPLE MILLION FROM ACHIEVE. LULRUFKNSRS?
New update:
Intellectual Giants over at TAC.
Is anyone investigating this so called company
Exactly, I don’t even bother commenting in the FB group any longer, my posts were deleted days ago and the thread removed when I compared this to Zeek.
I have never seen such dumb and gullible people in my life.
After an affiliate purchases a $50 position in the cycler queue, after fifteen subsequent positions are purchased they are paid $100 (tier 1).
After 260 subsequent positions have been purchased (relative to the original position), another $100 is paid out (tier 2).
Another 255 subsequent positions and $200 is paid out (tier 3).
So you telling me 530 $50 positions have to be sold before you are fully paid $400 — so $26,500 is paid in to do that?
Someone tell me what sort of madness is this.
Where is the money??
Certainly not in the members’ pockets
@Terrence
It’s not a matrix remember, it’s a cycler (straight-line queue). The positions under that original position receive payouts too, I believe the way it’s set up is that the entire 530 is not per position but as each position is purchased (fractions of the money paid are spread out).
It starts to blow out once there are more than 530 positions in the queue and only gets worse over time.
I hate that there is probably well over 1000 people who have invested their money and will never see a dime. Kiss that $50+ good-bye, lick your wounds and move on people.
Troy and Kristi Johnson are prime examples of everything that is wrong with the mlm community.
They want to sell themselves as “we’re smarter than the other owners of network marketing companies, JOIN US”……Well here is is everyone!!! Now on to to the next greatest thing where you have no product and you have to do nothing, but we’ll pay you a fortune to join!
I promise you Kristi and Troy made their money and we can only hope that someone will force them to have to repay everyone that has their hard-earned money invested before its over…..
You bet they made their money (Troy proudly displaying a go kart he bought for his son using other’s money). Sickening. I hope they go straight to jail.
If enough people complain (at least 20) the authorities may start one.
Let’s not forget the $25 credit Troy Barnes gets for referring each individual to payoneer.
What Is wrong with these achieve drones, they still seem to think that Every thing is fine.
He “earned” it by finding enough people to step on and hand over their wallet willingly.
And to “win” this game you have to be just like him: find enough people to step on and convince them this is actually right and just and they deserved to be stepped on… if they can step on others in turn.
What Is wrong with these achieve drones, they still seem to think that Every thing is fine.
I know, dumbest bunch ever.
Nah, not even close.
Wait until you see the supporters of a HYIP ponzi / pyramid still supporting the admin 4 years after his fraud was busted, 2 years after his first court appearance, 6 months after he finally pleaded guilty and a month after he had begun his sentence, THEN you can talk about dumbest bunch ever.
Until then, these guys are just normal get-rich-quickers doing what get-rich-quickers do
people who have bought into to this are stupid.
It tell’s you it is a matrix. A matrix is a ponzi.
I just sent all the information to the IRS and the Riverview police department. Look’s like he has 5 kids lived with his mother up until he started this scam. And doesn’t have a driver’s license.
DID MY RESEARCH.
Maybe the real reason Payoneer left Achieve is because of this website.
All this website did was point out Achieve Community is a $50 straight-line cycler.
Even if they read this review, it would still mean Payoneer terminated the account due to Achieve Community’s fraudulent business model.
(Ozedit: See comment #33 on the Payoneer article.)
You can also access these “products” by simply having the link so you do not have to even be a member to get them and download them.
I find the website to be extremely basic and to me it offers nothing of value yet they want us to keep saying how great the products are so it does not seem as if we are only buying money.
I think we are basically in a lose lose situations and members are simply too ashamed to admit that it was a scam.
here’s some more research lulu , here’s where troy lives with his five kids :
trulia.com/homes/Michigan/Riverview/sold/22622404-14739-Parkview-St-Riverview-MI-48193
i hope that pick up truck is not his , as he does not have a drivers license 🙂
@ Terrence B
You are really brazen to comment on any scams when you are so well known to promote them. I used to know you and I unfriended you both on FB and skype as I quickly discovered the real Terrence.
How about those so called online programs you owned that you thieved people out of their money? GuardianXL, Global Traffic, Wishing Well and God only knows how many others since I knew of you.
Everyone has the right to their opinions but no one should take yours seriously. Here is a list of programs Terrence either owned or participated in and promoted. Use your own judgement on taking his comments seriously or not.
realscam.com/f42/prosper-integrity-scam-formerly-known-2010-blessings-2164/index6.html
I also took a screenshot of a tweet he retweeted for someone. “Turn $18 in to $500,000″ Seriously Terrence? You are retweeting that for someone?
screencast.com/t/jBa7LVEjKtLp
Are you hiding something – I have nothing to hide from here or there. Seems to me if you unfriended me you probably were doing more harm than good.
I can probably figure who you are just from the comments.
As far as the retweets and my past go – You went back pretty far to pull that stuff up. Why not share what you have been up to lately.
I get a feeling you are losing money in this one too. No need to get upset with the truth here.
What I do now is all that matters. I have not cheated anyone out of anything.
Can you say the same?
@lulu
5 kids and lived at home with mom?!?! I always thought Troy was kind of dumb, but wow.
Are you able to share where you dug that up? I have some friends in TAC that I would LOVE to send that data to.
They need to see the ridiculousness of their “leader”
Why would it matter how many kids he has? Why does it matter where he lives or who he lives with?
I don’t see how those things have anything to do with the level of someone’s integrity. Irrelevant and completely judgmental.
From the top of the “Ready to Achieve” Privacy policy page:
and from the bottom of the same page:
A little bit of obfuscation music, Mr Maestro, if you please
what integrity ? troy barnes has done ponzi before , he knows when it crashes 90% people will lose their money .try telling those people about troy barnes integrity .
achieve has arrived in india too . i see that some of the regular ponzi players have hooked up .
We have yet to see any proof of anything that you are accusing the founders of. Besides, they make no secret of the fact that they have been in many failed programs until they founded Achieve.
The reason they started Achieve was to be able to have something that finally works– taking all of what works and none of what doesn’t.
Haven’t most of us been involved in failed mlm’s? And we live and learn from it?
So… Instead of bashing the founder’s character based on how many children he has, why don’t you really take the time to get a good look at the program and listen to the interviews and videos, you might learn a thing or two about how altruistic the founders really are.
This is a level playing field here, where everyone can succeed — the key here is that it is an exit matrix, there is no top and bottom. If one wants to repurchase, they need to get back in the line– just as Troy and Kristi do themselves.
There are no special privileges here.
@Nope
Well yeah, except y’know their compensation plan and business model.
Hur dur. Obvious is obvious?
“Works” for a cycler is the transfer of participant money to the admin and their buddies who preload the queue and get in early.
Achieve is no different the cycler games the founders have been involved in previously.
As far the Achieve founders go, apparently that owning a cycler scam is far more profitable than being an affiliate in one.
Done and done. Listening to marketing videos and interviews is irrelevant, all you need is the business model and compensation plan.
Horseshit. Those who buy positions earlier cycle faster. Cycler queue times increase over time as less new money comes in and people withdraw funds.
Level playing field my ass.
Positions purchased enter the bottom of the queue. Cycled positions exit the top.
“Exit matrix” is just meaningless marketing jargon.
Yeah. The bottom of the queue.
Talk about directly contradicting yourself…
You can bet your bottom dollar that Troy and Kristi preloaded the shit out of the queue when they started it. They also benefited the most in the early cycling days (when all their close-friend suckers first got on board).
Cycler scams are terribly one-sided in favor of admins and their buddies.
Achieve was only paying out faster.
Payoneer has daily and month caps. We were at the point of hitting million dollar transactions on cards and people were not being able to access the money due to Payoneers limitations.
whether achieve payed faster or slower , is not the issue . the issue is that achieve is a ponzi scheme.
never mind any caps or hats . payoneer dumped achieve because it smelled ‘ponzi’. payoneer is facing some credibility issues of it’s own , so it must be making sure , that nothing further sullies it’s brand.
so , if achieve is perfectly kosher , wait for troy and kristi to announce that they’ve tied up with pay pal or something . payment processors should be coming at them in droves by this time .
The amount of oblivious ponzi pimps praising this scam is astounding!
So the logical conclusion is Achieve is not legitimate enough to ask for the cap to be raised.
But that still doesn’t explain why Payoneer would dump Achieve altogether.
Clearly, you’ve been told a pack of lies.
Why would it matter? Because Troy is a loser. Why would anyone want to get involved with such a loser?
It’s like the guy living in his mom’s basement preaching how to make millions? Is he a success story? Nope.
Wake up people. You’ve been scammed. Time to see the writing on the wall. But people want something from nothing. They are still posting in the FB group and still dreaming. Dream on.
They won’t find a new processor, they got caught with their pants down. Now their panties are in a knot desperately trying to stall members.
They won’t find a new processor because it is indeed a ponzi scheme. I cannot fathom how fools can’t see this.
The Achieve Community is not a scam I GOT PAID…
Whether you got paid or not is neither here nor there.
A business model (compensation plan) defines whether or not an MLM company is a scam. Not whether it pays out those who got in early.
These people that are accusing Kristi and Troy of running scams please give us some solid ground, like what companies are you referring to how did they steal your money.
Do you have proof of these accusations because if not best to keep your foul mouth shut.
^^ Exhibit A: Achieve Community.
$50 cycler.
The compensation plan is all the proof you need.
IGP says “The Achieve Community is not a scam I GOT PAID…”
Oh dear, another lamb to the slaughter. Exactly how does the fact that you got paid prove that its not a scam?
Tell me how a woman, with a history of promoting failed online schemes, can invent a system that pays you 800% every 60 days, over and over again, when the best financial brains in the world seem to have not noticed that its possible?
Don’t try to baffle us with the usual “Algorithm” crap, that word is used by every ponzi scam going to try to convince the sheeple that a mathematics genius is behind it all.
TAC is a ponzi, it can’t be anything else.
I did my research and when I posted my findings…or any kind of negative remark…the comment was immediately deleted and I was kicked off the Achieve FB page…..and I was stupid enough to ‘buy’ a few positions….boy do I feel totally stupid right now.
I even posted a comment on Troy’s FB page and it was deleted and I was banned from accessing it…..holy shit…total scammers!!!
Run for the hills if anyone approaches you about The Achieve Community….
^^@susan
I was stupid enough to buy some positions too. I, however, wrote to Troy (email on their website) and requested a cancelation of my membership and he actually offered a refund. I didn’t take it.
I’ve disputed the charges on my CC instead. They’re in a little bit of hot water now and believe you me, they’re in panic mode (hence the extreme reactions on their FB forum).
Yes, I’ve done my research too and this is scam to the core. Just an FYI, a person can tip anonymously to the SEC (one of the agencies who deals with these types of schemes). The FBI also takes tips as well.
The other agency who deals with this is the FTC, and if you look on their website, TAC pretty much follows the typical model and sequence of what they would consider a Ponzi/Pyramid hiding behind a fraudulent Matrix model and worthless products.
You’re right about running far away from this scam.
Some resources:
sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm
fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/fraud#ponzi
@Imathruther, tell me more about having written to Troy and asking for a cancellation of your membership? May I ask – WHAT membership? In ACHIEVE?
There are no membership dues or montly fees, so what exactly did Troy offer to refund you? Or are you referring to the positions you bought? He offered a refund on it (or them)?
Gullible me bought 10 positions at a total cost of $500. This before the program came to a halt. Should I honestly kiss that money goodbye?
If nothing else I would just like to get THAT money back and quietly step away. Just hoping it’s all not too late.
For those of you NOT in the FB group – it has become a frightening source of brain-washed individuals who seem to have no touch with reality. A lot of *ss-kissing and self-congratulations and praising God for all the Blessings He has bestowed.
Sadly many have maxed out their credit cards in hopes of being debt-free within a year – not to speak of the 100’s of people who expect to become Millionaires within a year.
I’m afraid – – – – very, very afraid………
Johnson’s latest update on their blog says:-
Translation:-
“Just to clarify my earlier updates – we will start up by taking sign ups and repurchases, that will ensure that we have enough money to pay out to a few of the idiots who joined us, thereby conning them into thinking that we are a ‘real business’ and encouraging them to bring in even more idiots.
We will keep on doing this until Troy and I have enough money to do a runner.”
@Kenneth, I too bought only 200 worth of positions, I took it up with my credit card to get a refund. I would do that if I were you rather than wait for a miracle from Troy/Kristi.
It’s incredible what goes on in the FB group. Never seen such gullibility.
^^^^ Exactly.
@Kenneth, take it up with your CC if you can.
I also joined right before Payoneer severed ties with TAC. I basically emailed Troy telling him that I question the authenticity of his business, and I’d like no further part of this and am disputing the charges placed on my CC.
He wrote back immediately stating he would offer me a refund, but I have no interest in having any sort of interaction with him or his fraudulent business. I just wanted out so I handled it directly with my bank.
On another note, the admins have really done themselves in via their actions in the forums and there are many peeved people out there who are tipping the authorities.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Payoneer has done the same too. From the looks of it, this business is on a fast-track one-way spiral headed down, down, down.
Unfortunately, many in TAC are about to get very hurt.
Sorry to be pedantic, but this never was a “business”.
It’s sad to see whats going on with some of these people so sadly brainwashed.
Troy (who i met through facebook promoting several other programs) and Kristi (who I met through another attempted facebook group team build) doesn’t seem to mind jumping from program to program either telling us to jump in now and do nothing and you’ll be rich, have set themselves up for a huge amount of trouble. This is clearly nothing but a money game!!!
I purchased 2 positions in Sept, it got me in to see what was going on and within 5 minutes you see its nothing but a money game.
Payee’s are posting getting paid, and payer’s are blinded and signing up. Never have I seen a promotion on a product at any point!!! Strictly a money scheme/game and it’s come to a halt and alot of people are hurt by it.
Troy and Kristi have yet to offer an apology, nor admitted any wrong doing. They just cast the blame on the payment processor.
Payment Processors have rules and they clearly did not lay it out with Payoneer when they began this. If they had, they would have found it would have never been allowed!!!
Troy and Kristi is 100% at fault here and owe alot of people an apology and refunds!!! Next shame on the people who jumped in and were expecting “something for nothing”. They are as much to blame as Troy and Kristi.
I know Troy and Kristi are holding positions under several different accounts and are clearly getting paid, or they wouldn’t be pushing to continue this. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
The question everyone should have asked themselves was “Is this a real business?”and the answer was clearly “NO IT WASN’T”, so it’s a huge learning lesson for a lot of people.
Troy and Kristi reflects everything that is wrong in the network marketing industry and are a huge part of why Network Marketing has such a black cloud over it.
Hang around for a while then, ELK.
What you’re seeing now is nothing when compared to the nonsense some past HYIP ponzi supporters have been fed and believed.
I was a member of the Achieve FB Page and tried to post a question about how they arrived at the compensation plan. Of course my post was not approved, then suddenly, I received a private message from one of the admins.
She said that only Kristi knows how the math goes. And I thought it is a community?!
IMO, if you are receiving money from people who contribute to your “program”, you should at least be polite enough to answer their questions about how their money is being used.
I am not an achieve believer…The achieve community is a huge scam and unfortunately i was delayed in doing research first before joining and buying 3 positions.
My friend who is an achieve believer talked me into joining and i reluctantly did.. however recently she came up with an idea to create and market merchandise for achieve as a way to get the word out about achieve.
This is what i gathered for the discusssions she and i had about this.. She emailed the owners both Troy and Kristi to ask permission to create merchandise specifically to sell to the achieve community.. bumper stickers and such.. she would receive $1 per item sale as royalty.
Well Troy never responded back however Kristi did and referred her to a member of admin.. LM using initials here..
anyhow, admin member and marketing manager LM told her this and i quote.. no one is allowed to make money and profit off of achieve nor are they allowed to use the achieve logo or the website on any products.. well lo and behold after numerous conversations with LM to come up with a way for her to make a little money promoting her business as well as achieve she was pretty much told NO..here is a message she forwarded to me on fb about her conversation with said marketing manager and member of admin:
okay so here is the twist.. Today marketing coordinators son created tshirts for achieve ) teespring.com/AchieveTees .. Notice here that the site is free to create Zero Cost and Zero fees which means every sale is a profit..
Twist on this.. only $5 per sale is being donated to the achieve community charity which means the marketing manager and admins make $20 per sale off of each sale. thats a whopping amount of money..
they tell my friend she cannot profit $1 per sale when they profit $20 per sale. total monopoly..
money is being generated to pockets of the 31 members of admin within the achieve community group. Achieve community Charity.. haha what a joke.
its admin free for all with members money.. buyers beware and please whatever you do run far away from the achieve community..
The heat is going to come quick on the scamsters because myself and countless other fence sitters have already put in complaints to SEC..
hope you enjoyed this little tidbit for entertainment.. feel free to chime in at anytime.
Thank you for that- yes , total scammers. I do hope more come forward and more complain to the SEC- their *operation* needs to be shut down ASAP.
Today they changed their tshirt campaign to state that all profits from sales go to charity of achieve community choice.. funny they must be following this thread trying to cover their butts.
Elk. I have personally invited a lawyer and a government official to the Facebook group, they sit on the fence and watch/listen. Have also personally been involved with a few fence sitters who have questions and suspicions about the program.
Its only a matter of time because there are a ton of inconsistentcies within that the admins have not figured out and/or covered up as of yet.
With 20,000 members less than half paying admin better be prepared because The clock is ticking. I predict it won’t be much longer before an investigation is launched.
tick tock achieve admin you blood sucking parasites !
Well, all I have to say to you naysayers is simply – we’ll see.
It’s funny how you feel that YOU’RE entitled to speculate – which is ALL that it is – about the ‘undergoings’ of this venture. I’ve been following this post for some time – just like the supposed “lawyers” are doing to the FB group…… but haven’t commented until now.
I’ll be the FIRST to admit that while it’s true that only Kristi knows the mathematical algorithm that “runs” Achieve, I feel like I’m sitting on eggshells due to this “hiatus” (for want of a better word). Kristi has stated that the relaunch will occur on or before November 26th. That is the “plan”.
1000’s of people are counting on this as well as (sadly) counting on this for their future. Many of the stories are very sad. The whole community DOES have a feeling of being ‘brainwashed’ as they go on and on.
I, too, have purchased some positions.. and have not as yet made any money. However, I’m simply taking this one day at a time. Che sera, sera.
For what it’s worth, not only have I spoken with people who HAVE made money, but also to one of the top earners, who has garnered $76,000. Granted, he’s been in Achieve since April.
At this point it would be nice to cycle and get the money out that I put in. From there I’ll watch very cautiously because I just don’t trust the LONGEVITY of this program. But again, time will tell; and we’ll see what happens.
Finally, not to brush Achieve by the side – I’d be curious to know what all of you think about RevShares as a means of online income?
Thanks,
Ken
@ onlinebiznewbie. I’m not a member of Achieve Community, I was invited to take a look but decided that it is most certainly a ponzi scheme, however what I am interested in is truth and accuracy when either attacking or defending a programme.
Your post of 22nd November is a disgrace on both counts. It os neither true nor accurate and does nothing to assist sites like behindmlm.com in warning people aout scams.
Firstly, why should Achieve Community allow a friend of yours to use their name and logo in order to make money for herself?
I own a Company which as taken me 20 years to build to the point where it has many thousands of customers and an established and trusted brand name. Would I allow anyone to use that name and my logo to make money form? Darn right I wouldn’t!
Would McDonalds allow YOU to use their brand name and logo to make money for yourself? How about trying it and see how far you get before they have their corporate lawyers haul you into court!
Also, you have blindly assumed that the manufacturers of the Tee Shirts are going to provide them totally free of charge, well that’s not the case.
If you took the time (a whole 2 minutes!) to use the Tee Shirt design page on teespring.com you would discover that the cost of having 50 Tee Shirts produced with a 2 colour logo back and front and a scannable QR code on the back is $13.45 per shirt. So that’s $13.45 per shirt LESS ‘Profit’ than you were telling us!
Do try to get your facts right unless, of course, you work for Fox News or some other ‘tabloid’ organisation who only publish a story if they can make it sound really dramatic by totally ignoring the facts……. which is precisely what you have done.
Well said, GoldCard! I didn’t have the energy to devote to refuting all of onlinebiznewbie’s allegations. You’re of course 110% right.
I commented earlier – and thought it was this thread – unless the post has to first be approved which would explain why it’s not up yet, but which commented on this whole ACHIEVE thread.
Essentially I’m happy to hear that your main focus is accuracy and truthfulness. So many of the above posts are merely speculation which I originally noted when perusing this site several weeks ago and therefore didn’t even want to bother adding a comment.
Let’s try to separate FACT from FICTION!
With all due respect. This is a public forum and people are entitled to express their opinions with regard to the legitimacy of a company they are involved in whether directly or indirectly.
My point being the only ones getting paid or making any type of profit in achieve are admin and Troy.
Secondly, I am not a paid member nor do i intend on ever becoming one. The business model of this company is that of a ponzi and i will not be involved in it directly or indirectly.
Thirdly, my friend did not persuade me into any type of opinions based on her opinion or experience in and of achieve. Less than 2 days after being added to their wondefully friendly community i decided i had seen and heard enough to form my own opinion.
Also, upon doing my research and due diligence on this company i have read alot of comments in a lot of different forums. whether fact or fiction the history of both troy and Kristi does not paint a pretty picture.
Fourth, the only payment proof i have seen inside of the achieve fb community page has been posted by members of admin and the owners themselves. There have been no other large payments to any other Achieve members.
Lastly, Troy spends quite a bit of money before during and after the halt, posting and boasting about about buying gocarts, puppies etc. Clear indication that Troy got paid.
The wait continues for members as does every excuse in the book how fitting.
@Ken
Matrix cyclers all run the same algorithm. New affiliate money used to buy new positions, that money is distributed entirely or partially to position(s) at the top of the queue.
When the position has enough of a balance it cycles out and the process repeats.
Achieve Community’s compensation plan is not unknown.
That’s how cyclers work. Those who join early steal funds of those who join after. They steal even more if they successfully convince those who join later to continue to reinvest and not withdraw anything.
If you’re recycling new affiliate funds to pay off existing investors it’s a Ponzi scheme.
Thanks @OZ for your helpful comments and explanation.
In addition when I was emailed your comment there were several LINKS attached in the email for me to check out. I am looking forward to doing that and again, thanks! 😀
There was? Huh?
What “speculation”?
Achieve is a fraudulent scheme.
You’re a willing participant in this fraudulent scheme.
The scheme will eventually collapse with most participants left holding the bag … as has happened time and again with schemes like Achieve.
No “speculation” required.
@cbrand
You mean you had to purchase TWO just to see what is really going on? OR you wanted to get a good chance to earn $800 really fast?
A ‘good’ chance? Surely you mean ‘No chance at all’. Lol
Whatever guys – we’ll see where it stands before Thanksgiving. I’ll keep you’all posted. 🙂
BUT – to be honest – I’m NOT holding my breath at this point, after reading all your comments. However my money is there, so it’s out of my hands for now. 😀
Better look up “sunk cost fallacy”, and “wishful thinking” then.
Don’t know about you but that last ACHIEVE update doesn’t look promising.
Here we go on almost 30 days now since the halt and no new processor and nothing really significant to go by and people are getting antsy.
Yeah… but the banners are just around the corner.
LOL @ the banners
Here’s a really simple idea for you Kristi and Troy.
Since you and Troy Barnes are most likely holding onto a LOT of money right now (probably WELL in excess of over $100,000 in cold hard cash), that’s NOT YOURS, and probably stuffed in some mattress or duffel bag or an “account,” why don’t you BOTH come right here on this thread and shut all us “naysayers,” “doubters,” and “critical thinkers” down once and for all.
All we ask of you BOTH is the simple LEGALITY of your business model and entity; and if you’re licensed and registered to do business ANYWHERE in the US, let alone WORLDWIDE?
Are you an illegal ponzi scheme? [YES] or [NO].
So take a real deep breath, grab a couple coffees, grab a couple pencils and fill JUST ONE in. JUST ONE THOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS A ZERO-SHADYNESS/BS ZONE here!!!!! It’s a VERY black or white answer really. Don’t you think Kristi and Troy?
You so cleverly wrap up your words Kristi in your “updates” with such masterful ponziesque subtlety and grace and smartness that you continually put all those achiversheep right back at ease.
Well, congrats to you! You have a real gift of gab there. No doubt.
So why don’t you come here with that same “tranquility fog” that you lay out so THICK and TASTY and PROVE us all wrong, and without a SHADOW of a doubt, that you are, indeed, a 100% LEGAL BUSINESS ENTITY and NOT a ponzi scheme.
I know, and here’s one better. Why don’t you BOTH get on youtube and simply tell us all these answers face to face on video.
We don’t bite.
Hell, we’d ALL love to join you in this Achieve thingy you got going on – if it was all just LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!
A TRUE NO-BRAINIER!!!!!!!!! Right?????
JUST LIKE MAGIC, TURNING $50 INTO $400. So why in the literal hell isn’t the whole damned WORLD onto this thing like white on rice???????
Ever heard of that little thing Kristi and Troy called the past???
Your “program” is NO different than the rest of the failed ponzis throughout history.
You can try and cover it up all you want with as much worthless and ZERO VALUE “banners” and “digital goods” you can muster, which probably cost you both a whole whopping $20 on a CD-R off of ebay.
Achieve is nothing but a very shady money game. Am I wrong Kristi and Troy?
PROVE US WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The processors are going over you RIGHT NOW (so you say) with a “FINE TOOTH COMB” and you say everything’s on the up and up, and it’s ALL ROSES AND RAINBOWS. So you both SHOULD HAVE ZERO PROBLEM with telling us all to go eat shit-laced crow bisque………
Can you?
Whoa. @moreupdates~ angry much ?? That’s quite a statement
@onlinebiznewbie, everything moreupdates states is true. I am so sick of Kristi’s dumb updates. Same words over and over- only she never fooled me.
You can be sure those idiotic moderator drones read this site- hopefully those two who should be JAILED are reading too. Days are numbered, the gig is up.
there supposedly new processor going over them with a fine tooth comb means.nothing to.prove the business will last beyond one payout cycle.
Whoever it is could save themselves a heap of time and grief, forget about the fine toothed comb and just check out their business model.
It.does nothing.to prove the legality.and/or longevity of the program or the business
@onlinebiznewbie, why haven’t you addressed the fact that your friend as reported by you lied about the profits from the T-Shirts.
I use Teespring services and there is cost and a fee for there services, how in the hell could they stay in business if it was not, but you do not seem to be interested in those facts.
I’m not an Achieve subscriber, member or whatever, but I do know this, those of you who are crying and whining about it being a ponzi scheme ought to “SHUT UP”.
You were greedy, and trying to get something for nothing, you agree with what they were doing and the only reason your complaining now is that you did not get your share, not that you’re so moral and honorable.
Knowing what you know right now, if they started paying out again you would take the money as long as you could. You self righteous greedy people kill me.
@MOREUPDATES, how may positions did you purchase? Did you think about legality when you purchased them or just profit?
Those bad people made you give them your money, well boo damn hoo!
Why don’t you all admit you were driven by greed and are really no better than Troy or Kristi, they were just smarter than you to devise the scheme to get your money.
You all are just angry because you either too lazy or too to devise the the scheme yourselves, you just wanted to profit from it, tsk, tsk, tsk…
I feel so sorry for Troy & Kristi. SAID NO ON EVER!! They have ripped people off INTENTIONALLY. If something sounds to good to be true then it probably is.
To me, it was very clear exactly what Achieve is/was all about from the 1st time I heard of it. Im sure a lot of people would have passed their concerns to authorities & I think that Achieve would have been under investigation for a while now.
Even though SO many obvious things about Achieve are dead give aways for it to be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, there are 2 things because of how they are written up, may prove the opposite.
1) You paid $50 for a ‘membership’ which gave you access to training & marketing videos & new ones monthly – regardless of what was included, you had to ‘buy’ a membership & ‘membership’ is classed as a product.
2) For every $50 share you buy, you reciebe an online advertising banner!!! – something else you had to buy.
The illegal schemes generally have no product to sell or to buy but now it’s a very blury deffinition of what exactly ‘product’ is.
I hope an example will be made of this & the 2 behind it, let’s hope they don’t to do it again. What I want more is for everyone who was signed up to be able to identify a scam or at least question
@james if you look the time to read the entire post you would see the answer to yor question but since you overlooked that here in its entirety.
and fyi I have no time to argue/bicker in these forums. Im just staying facts from updates by said owners and what goes on inside the fb achive community group. Here is my prior answer/post
With all due respect. This is a public forum and people are entitled to express their opinions with regard to the legitimacy of a company they are involved in whether directly or indirectly.
My point being the only ones getting paid or making any type of profit in achieve are admin and Troy.
Secondly, I am not a paid member nor do i intend on ever becoming one. The business model of this company is that of a ponzi and i will not be involved in it directly or indirectly.
Thirdly, my friend did not persuade me into any type of opinions based on her opinion or experience in and of achieve. Less than 2 days after being added to their wondefully friendly community i decided i had seen and heard enough to form my own opinion.
Also, upon doing my research and due diligence on this company i have read alot of comments in a lot of different forums. whether fact or fiction the history of both troy and Kristi does not paint a pretty picture.
Fourth, the only payment proof i have seen inside of the achieve fb community page has been posted by members of admin and the owners themselves. There have been no other large payments to any other Achieve members.
Lastly, Troy spends quite a bit of money before during and after the halt, posting and boasting about about buying gocarts, puppies etc. Clear indication that Troy got paid.
The wait continues for members as does every excuse in the book how fitting.#127
@Kayellebee
How you “write something up” doesn’t change what it is. That’s pseudo-compliance.
You paid $50 for a position in the cycler. Membership is not a valid MLM product (recruitment).
Whatever is bundled with a cycler position is irrelevant. Furthermore, not that it really matters anyway, those who got in early didn’t have banners bundled with their cycler positions.
That fact that some people calls fool’s gold “gold” doesn’t make it spendable.
Why? Call spade a spade somehow offends you?
K Chang,
I did go on to give the reason why they should “SHUT UP”…, but you conveniently left that out, you started my quote at hose (those) when I actually said…
“I’m not an Achieve subscriber, member or whatever, but I do know this, those of you who are crying and whining about it being a ponzi scheme ought to “SHUT UP”.” Then I went on to say…
“You were greedy, and trying to get something for nothing, you agree with what they were doing and the only reason your complaining now is that you did not get your share, not that you’re so moral and honorable.
Knowing what you know right now, if they started paying out again you would take the money as long as you could. You self righteous greedy people kill me.”
I did call a “spade a spade” K Chang, the complainers were compilers.
So did we miss the announcement of this relaunch or is nothing really going on with this still?
Since they voted to get things started I wouldn’t want to miss if they really open the doors to respending and all that.
1. Achieve is not a legal company.
2. The only reason old people are upset is because they have money tied up and they joined thinking achieve was NOT a Ponzi and was legal, now they want to get their money back. the only 2 ways are to file a charge back to your credit card or get more new recruits in so hopefully you will get paid but one huge problem the cycler has gone huge and you will be waiting months if not years to see your money back.
3. Achieve has no retail able products or services when you gave your money so it’s NOT legal.
4. No payment processor will take on a Ponzi scheme knowing that up front, they look your website and business over very carefully.
5. No payment processor would turn away any legitimate program, Just the thought of all those fees they would generate would be very attractive alone.
6. Payoneer handles way more than the measly 2 million that achieve paid out. they do that in a day.
Payonner most likely ran a audit of their system and red flags of money laundering came up from achieve bringing in all that money and paying it all out in a very short time. (Ponzi)
7. Achieve is nothing more than a money game, Play it like a slot machine, money in money out if lucky.
I got an email they are up and running (pun intended).
@Terrence B and @ELK – yes, despite all the naysayers remarks above, stating that ACHIEVE was dead – it RE-launched late this afternoon (EST).
I’m not going to bother writing the details of Kristi’s post. I have on fairly good authority that those of you in this forum who have made both insulting and negative comments about this company, really know nothing about it.
Why go on and on beating a “not-dead” horse into the ground with the same old “it’s a ponzi scheme” and “everyone is going to jail cause it’s illegal” – blah, blah, blah. It’s OLD already.
People are not looking to YOU for answers. So stop trying to give them. Achieve is live and well.
To be precise the “you pay us but we don’t pay you” part of Achieve is alive
Makes me wonder why people would want to be part of Achieve.
So, do tell, why the processor that is gladly taking in money, can’t also pay out money?
Or, for that matter, why can’t the good old fashion ‘check’ or ‘bank transfer’ (credit to Lynn) pay people?
any idea about the life expectancy , this time around?
i’m saying you will see a wash/rinse/repeat within 6 months .
The owners have now found a new way to make money. They collect hefty fees off of debit/credit card purchases. Here is a comment from a member expressing a concern about the fee being CHARGED:
THE SCAMMING CONTINUES
The general consensus around here is that Achieve is a fraudulent operation.
Why would anyone believe a word anyone from Achieve says on a receipt ??
Any “clarification” can only come from Achieve itself, so you’d have to ask them.
OOPS
I just remembered, Kristi says she’s too busy to answer emails, so I guess members will just have to live with it.
I agree and that is not mine. Its a comment from the inside. Lol
Ah, my mistake
@onlinebiznewbie
iPayDNA focus exclusively on “high risk” clients, that their fees would border on extortion goes without saying.
Here is another comment from a proud member of the Achieve Community
I just went to that site.. ruiqiushop.com and it. looks like one of those free website surely not a payment processor !
Here is something from the Ipaydna site itself under merchant account.
“Assuming you are trading in legitimate products and services, then it should not be too problematic to open a high risk account.”
So I guess we can expect another shut down shortly.
I don’t think banner credits are products of high risk.
I think many people will be doing chargebacks from the long wait times soon enough.
So fast as they take in “NEW” money they will be sending it out to make it seem like things are back to normal when it will be far from it.
How many positions outstanding would they be at this point in having paid out over 2 million?
(Ozedit: BehindMLM is not the place to solicit personal MLM opportunity recommendations.)
Just to add something to this thread – perhaps what you’all are saying about our current payment processor is correct – nevertheless people have been posting all morning about how they’ve cycled, how much money they’ve been paid etc.
I’m not sure about the “outrageous” fees being charged by the new processor……considering the “turnover”, people don’t seem to mind.
As to it’s longevity this time around – nobody knows. 🙁 Essentially it’s simply “each man for himself” – what happens, happens.
Achieve currently isn’t paying anyone. You’re full of shit son.
If Kristi and Troy admitted Achieve is a HYIP ponzi in the “traditional” mould, round one is finished and this is round two, you may have a point.
But, that is NOT how they represent Achieve. The complete opposite, in fact.
They say it’s a legitimate business that simply hasn’t been paying its’ members for 30 days or more.
Real businesses don’t have a restart button, only HYIP ponzi frauds do.
*our payment processor*. Man, you really must have a stake in this scheme. Can’t see the trees from the forest.
Real businesses don’t have a restart button, only HYIP ponzi frauds do.
Exactly. Time to see it for what it is and has been all along.
Reading the comments here, I wonder why people keep harping on about how much of a scheme and a fraud that Achieve is. If you really think it is simply a scam, then leave a comment and move on. Life is too short.
It almost seems like there is some stake and zealous desire to see it fail. If it fails, it fails. And its success or failure will likely have nothing to do with any of the comments here. That is my opinion anyway.
Oh but OZ I think you should rephrase that..Achieve is paying only its not paying members…im sure all 34 admin plus troy and miss Kristi Will have full pockets for Christmas.
Members have cycled but oops cannot get paid bcuz no processor for payouts though..You should see the fb group total chaos with regard to limits, card , declines..etc..the bogus updates are a joke
Members are in lala land I mean really do these people realize where the money is going oh but wait this is achieve..land of the happy and totally gullible..its magic.. the purchases money is going to a big magical pot at the end of a rainbow for all to share..smdh total fools the whole 20000 of em..minus 36..lol
Just a little tidbit for those who have put money in achieve since the relaunch. Although it has not been officially confirmed there is speculation of tbe processor being located in Malaysia..well several achieve members have had money taken from their accounts after signing up and purchasing positions..here is a comment posted today by an achieve member
I wonder how many folks will end up with their bank and credit card company relationships completely screwed by the time this fiasco comes to an end?
Oh well, live and learn.
lol. and your own leader’s update today states otherwise.
Excellent advice.
Take it.
But yet, that’s precisely why you left a negative comment about comments pointing out the flaws.
Why do you individuals who have no stake in Achieve get so angry about it? You say you don’t care about it, but you’re on here everyday crying about it? WHY?
@jame
Nobody is on here crying about the achieve community i for one am grateful for this site for shining some light on this scam which it is. Not an amazing triple algorithm that you lot believe it is cause someone told you it is.
Just remember when or if you get a pay out that you have taken money off seven other people who may never get there money back karma is such a bitch.
For some people, it’s called “altruism” and, if you need to ask, it’s probably a waste of time trying to explain what it means
@james
Crying ? The only ones crying will be the ones left holding the empty bag of nothing after THEY get scammed out of their life savings by people like you and members of admin.
So.do tell us James how happy you are to scam those 7 people behind you.
I can sleep at night and im very Happy to be an un-achiever
I was actually going to drink the koolaid until the fraud debt of my credit card called and asked if I authorized a charge to a lawn service in Canada!
Kristi posted yesterday the payments are “going thru a cluster of overseas merchants so Achieve can continue to grow”. I admit to being clueless about a lot of mlm practices but this sounds more like laundering money!
There is a ton of money going in but people who “cycle” are just doing so on paper since there is no payment processor in place yet. Has anyone ever heard of payments being made to a cluster of overseas merchants??
Why do people that don’t like getting caught scamming, automatically assume someone against scamming is angry? Who’s crying (other than you about your scam being exposed)?
We’re laughing at the lame excuses and lies and how utterly poor they are.
It hilarious calling people out with questions they can’ answer and we know they can’t answer as that will expose the scam. I’m still waiting for ‘ken’ to answer my very simple question.
Yep, it’s called “credit card factoring”
NOLINK: cardnotpresent.com/library/default.aspx?id=78&__taxonomyid=97
(Ozedit: attempt to take discussion offsite removed.)
Lol can I ask have you tried achieve or are you the type to review something without trying it.
Achieve work fine and does pay out.
Try review things only if you try it yourself because your review is be.
Get a grip and pay just $50 and try it. Once it pays out take your $50 back and reinvest the rest.
Use are saying It’s bs. Try it out and shut up as it works. Get a grip
Nice second-guessing, but no. It was merely an observation.
Why do you care? Why do you come here and read this?
Credit card laundering is a serious problem.
Factoring is legit. It’s basically sell your “to-be-paid-later” invoices at a discount, but for cash, to improve cashflow. Say your “net 30” (or even “net 90”) invoices are stacking up and you need money, like, this week.
So you find a company that does factoring… They’ll BUY your net 30 or net 90 invoices for… 90%. You get 10% less money, but you get your money like immediately. They get 10% gain for 30 or 90 days wait. That’s great profit for them.
Credit card factoring is fraud because it means it’s accepting the card for someone else, and that is against AUP of any credit card provider, since that bypasses any sort of credit check or merchant agreement.
Achieve basically admitted that it cannot accept cards legitimately.
Chances are that any rumors about they signing up a payment processor will be such high fees to be impractical, or it’s just full of hot air.
Here is the link to the Securities and Exchange Commission Whistle Blower program – If enough people file complaints I am sure that the SEC will look into it….save all communications, screen shots of the Achieve FB page, your Achieve Backoffice, any email updates, etc.
sec.gov/complaint/tipscomplaint.shtml
Troy and Kristi – Hope your passports are held up before you make off with all the $$$ you a-holes scammed from people. Have you no morals or scruples?!?!!
This thread is GREAT! I have been fighting the sheeple of Achieve most of who live in La La land or are actually in on the fraud for a number of weeks.
All the common sense questions posted to the community get deleted and the questioners blocked.
Like when a friend of mine asked how to credit check them as he was considering a large investment (sorry payment). The question lasted 2 minutes, was then blocked and he was ejected.
I have a large box of tissues ready for when reality kicks in and the sooner the better. Why does it take so long for the authorities to act and shut them down?
Kristi is VERY quiet today…..hmmmmmmm
lol. not a guess as proven by your post or else you wouldn’t have needed to make it.
@craig
You don’t need to get involved with scams to understand how they work.
Compensation plans are mathematics, and Achieve’s business model is that of a Ponzi scheme.
Much like Madoff rejected money when the provider asked too many questions, eh?
excerpted from Too Good to be true: The Rise and Fall of Bernie Madoff by Erin Arvedlund
I don’t need to shoot myself in the foot to know it’s bad for me.
If you do, you are more stupid than I suspected.
Craig appears to be one of those “it’s paying so it can’t be a scam” desperadoes
By listening to the attached recorded call this is HUGE!! It is either going to be great for a lot of people or it is going to go bad very quick!
I don’t think their figures are correct on some points, I read endless post for two days of people that were unable to purchase due to fraud alerts.
Today FB was quite in comparison so maybe some gave up and moved on. I didn’t hear the call mention how every ones card is going through other merchants like a lawn care in canada, nursery in china, suyingshop, weiwei365. No one can even know who is going to charge their cards.
I’m left scratching my head on this one…guess I will see how it goes in the future. freeconferencecallhd.com/playback/?n=DTNE%2FjJllW
At this point, it is not going be great except for select few who can run away if they are half a brain. For the sheepie it is going to be bad or horribly bad.
that is fair….sorry…:-(
I love their definition of their “business”. In short: “This is a business. We do not have to explain anything. It is what it is and it works. Believe us, it is legitimate. Nobody forcing you to join”.
30 minutes into the call except for definition of their business we learned that “bankers”/”money launderers” are really happy because nobody gave them so much business before.
I can believe it. Money Launderers usually have to pay to get peoples credit cards on black market. Now they get them for free and 10% commission. Those sharks never seen so much free snack.
Constant praise to Kristi “who is so brilliant to design three dimensional algorithm just in her head”. Did she finish high school by the way?
In May they plan big congratulation conference in Vegas. Laughable, but few is eager to go already.
And they are spectacular financial advisors. “Nobody is going broke. We are not financial professionals. Go to computer and crunch some numbers”. If they could crunch numbers, they would not be “cycling”.
Also, those huge International Bankers apparently are horrible at accepting charges because that too much money than they used to. Apparently, they do not know that about half a dozen real huge International banks that already work here.
Question about a “product”. Marketers have zero clues what “products” are or who is in charge of selling them. Switching to “excitement” talk and recruitment lesson. “Just show them you make money. And leave marketing to “professionals”.”
In their conclusion:
“Achieve is already successful.” “We do not need anymore people because we will all make tons of money anyway. If you do not understand, they it shows how great Achieve is”. “We are humanitarians, this is great humanitarian project.”
Also, sad part. From their voices, most of callers are 50+. And they really do not know the game.
Above is basic transcription of their conference call that you do not have to spend an hour on their Rara bullshit.
thanks.
a fresh update a couple of hours back claims :
is that even believable ?
All the more evidence for authorities to hit them with.
Email from TAC
I think they meant to say:
“Hello Achieve Community Members –
So what? Only dozens of achievers out of thousands achieved a cycle? Wow!
I have positions and now I can’t even get into my Achieve ‘back office’…opps…
hummm maybe I got kicked out even tho I got suckered into purchasing positions..:-( Says an Admin has been made aware of it…likely an Admin. kicked me off, like they did on Facebook..:-(
Update:
SOUNDS LIKE MORE STALLING TACTICS!!
I was wondering when one of the owners would:
1. have a relative or close friend die or be on the brink of death and/or
2. be (or have a close friend/relative) diagnosed with a an awful disease or condition.
3. have their, or their close friend’s/relative’s, home destroyed by a volcanic eruption, tsunami, tornado, Cthulhu rising or whatever.
Not to mention the no doubt forthcoming DDOS attack, database hacking, etc. that will cause even more (payout) delays “but which fortunately doesn’t the “processor” through which Achiever’s are able to purchase positions”.
Maybe I’m just too cynical.
Another thing to note…
Earlier, reports are WeiWeishop was charging $509, when Achieve was charging $500.
Normally in a CC transaction, merchant eats the 2% fee.
Clearly, achieve doesn’t consider itself a merchant since it’s taking on that extra $9, and one wonders if it told all its members about that?
Kristi had a very dear friend pass away. Another stall tactic indeed.
In another forum I was accused of being jealous of Achieve…Hahaha in what lifetime am I jealous of scammers and thieves. Smh at the achieve drones promoting this fiasco.
I’m sure the friend died from dengue fever.
I hope none of my close friends or family run Ponzi schemes. Karma seems to be a right bitch.
Wow What a sad bunch! You know if the postings on here were for an altruistic purpose and concern for the participants in Achieve I would have put more credence in the thread but you guys are some mean spirited people.
All the particpants in Achieve are all adults! If greed is their motivation and they get taken, then so be it.
You just seem to be soooo gleeful in seeking the downfall of the effort and the people that it really doesn’t reflect positively on your characters and you as individuals.
If these people are being taken, feel sorry for them, wish them well, stop being so nasty and move on to promoting better MLMs that garner ALL incomes and not just the promoters.
Owning, operating, promoting and participating in recruitment-driven MLM pyramid/Ponzi schemes is illegal.
“So be it” my ass.
So you DO agree.
Yes you should as yours is the only nasty post here. lmao!
That isn’t the main function here? “Altruistic purpose and concern for the participants” will be too hard to live up to in the long run. One of us seem to have misinterpreted something here. 🙂
That seemed to be too hard to live up to, too, “in the long run”. You don’t reflect that yourself either, but you expect others to reflect it?
@ Oz: then report it to the SEC!
@Whip: I don’t agree, but it doesn’t matter, and statements like “Kristi had a very dear friend pass away. Another stall tactic indeed” are nasty as one doesn’t know if it’s true or not
@M_Norway: Not sure what you are trying to say in your repsonse, but I have had my say and now bid you all adieu.
I run an MLM blog. Achieve Community is an MLM opportunity.
Herp derp.
But you do agree. You said: “You know if the postings on here were for an altruistic purpose and concern for the participants in Achieve I would have put more credence in the thread” and that’s precisely what’s done here.
If you don’t like a stall tactic being called what it is, then tell the scammers not to use the excuse. There was absolutely no need for that to be announced other than an excuse.
@Taylor… I am a member of the achieve fb group.for the better part of 2 months I have read alot of stuff in there.. people being ridiculed, called names, being told they are stupid etc. All because they had questions regarding the business model.
All this took place by members of Achieve Admin, the cheerleaders and many big time mlm players…
Should you call a kettle black then please point fingers at the Achieve Community ponzi pushers because clearly they are mean spirited bunch of greed feeding, money hungry scammers running an illegal business.
Most of the people in that group are clueless to online mlms and believe that this is the answer to their lifelong financial struggles. They are being brainwashed and dont even know it.
These ponzi Pimps promoting Achieve mentioned targeting the elderly and members of military to recruit more members !!
Wow, what a potty mouth. Did your mom never taught you any manners?
Potty mouth??? What was said that warrants that comment?
By leading off with the name calling… or do you not read what you wrote?
Very convenient memory you have there.
An “international company” that resorted to credit card factoring… Much like Zeek in its final months when no legitimate bank would touch them.
Better read up on “cockroach effect”…
At worst, I’d use “jaded” rather than “nasty”.
As to why “jaded”, visit any HYIP forum and read through archived threads detailing the history of past schemes come and gone.
The full or partial stalling of payments is generally accompanied by a litany of ludicrous excuses from the owner, and/or the main promoters on the owner’s behalf, along with pronouncements of the owner’s integrity, etc. and assurances that once the bumpy patch is passed, everything will be back to “normal”.
Often one of the above-mentioned excuses will concern a purported illness, of the owner or a relative/close friend, and/or the death of of that relative/close friend.
It works best if it’s one of the owner’s accomplices, explaining that the owner didn’t want to burden, or some-such thing, members with the info … whipping up sympathy and concern for the owner and delaying the “where’s my money” questions for a time.
Seeing this play out time and again through the years can leave one with a rather “jaded”, or perhaps “realistic” or “based on experience”, view towards the excuses fraudulent scheme operators come up with when things start to go south.
And, from an “altruistic” perspective, pointing this out for the benefit of newbies to the web’s fraudulent schemes “industry” who come across this blog might save them from getting sucked into … or remaining in … one of these schemes.
The purpose of this blog seems to me to be to provide an objective review of (in many cases, so-called) MLM companies, rather than “promoting better MLMs” (whatever those might be).
Unfortunately, the so-called MLM companies popping up on the web every day are, in my view, likely to be blatant frauds, whether of a ponzi, pyramid, hybrid or “other” nature. And any objective review will, either directly or “read between the lines” indirectly, reveal this truth.
Understandably, the sociopath scumbags who own/promote these schemes would prefer that there be no objective and knowledgeable reviews that point this out and, hopefully, warn off inexperienced people who might otherwise be gulled into joining a fraudulent scheme.
Yeah, the internet fraudulent scheme “industry”.
I have to wonder how many of the people in the “smart community” of Achievers are fully aware of what “industry” they’re actually in?
Just read on Ponzitracker that a Florida guy got 30 years jail for his 34 million Ponzi scheme.
Wonder how many million will “Achieve”… well, achieve? 😀
This morning Troy posted that his family is going through some serious problems at this time. But please continue to repurchase..
So first Kristis dear friend croaks now troy has serious family problems ??
It figures and im.not surprised. Cant wait for the next round of lame ass phony excuses
K Chang – Excuse me?? I didn’t ‘start off’ name calling anyone, nor did I name call during any of my posts. I did go back and re-read what I posted so who’s name calling now.
BTW – I didn’t see anything nasty being said by any of the posters…maybe you could quote what offended you.
I am not a fan of The Achieve Community, however I do post updates that are on their FB page….just saying.
@onlinebiznewbie
Your curious, whats wrong with this message? Are you pissed because you are not in Achieve and did not make tons of money, but sitting and mouth your useless opinion?
@Susan I think Kasey got you confused with taylor (see comment #224).
rene
Yes we are jealous that we are not eligible to use your magical money machine that prints money by the way of three dimensional algorithm.
By the way, if you know somebody who is interested, I have Brooklyn Bridge on sale.
Latest Ponzi anology from Kristi Johnson:
New affiliate money goes in, affiliates then have to wait until enough new money is invested/re-invested and then they get paid.
There’s nothing complicated, mysterious or “never been seen before” in this.
I think reinvestment angle have not being pushed that heavy and early before.
But then, previous large Ponzis had something like 100%-200% yearly return. This one has more than 1000% yearly return based on their $50 to $400 in two month estimation.
Also, previous successful Ponzis has at least something to cover their asses regardless how stupid or unbelievable that looked (You must post banners to succeed/We are large Forex trading company/We investing in Gold, etc). This one does not even bother with excuses.
Like they said on the call, “We are not MLM, we are what we are, just trust us.”
@rene
That’s funnier than Kristi choking on a mouthful of your purchased positions. Mabye the scamming old hag will croak then they will have a real story as to the stalling of revealing the processor instead of made up ones.
Now move along and continue promting and scamming innocent people.
@rene
Again no one in here is jealous of Achieve. Do please explain to us though how you can “Make tons of money”. NEWS FLASH ACHIEVE IS NOT A LEGAL BUSINESSES ENTITY! FACTS ARE FACTS.
Fact is that your beloved owners of Achieve continue this charade when in reality there is no proceser to payout. ITS BEEN ONE LAME EXCUSE AFTER ANOTHER FOR FOUR WEEKS!
I think what you really meant to say was that we are thankful we haven’t joined achieve to “scam tons of money”.
I thought my “potty mouth” comment was to Taylor? How did you get involved? Now I am confused as heck.
Are you pissed because you can’t live with yourself and thus must live a life of denial and bad mouth everybody armed with truth?
“Sour grapes” is a distraction tactic by scam defenders by ignoring the issues and tries to sidetrack the discussion.
amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/06/bad-argumentsour-grapes-argument-and.html
Okay I think I have now done myself in with Achieve – The Achieve ‘backoffice’ was down for a few…then back up…and now when I tried to log in, it says that it couldn’t log me in because my password is incorrect.
My password popped up automatically before as I had my computer set to ‘remember it’….it didn’t work this morning so I sent a request to the ‘forgot password’ link, and put in my ‘member’ number, which I copied and pasted so I would have it correct and this is the message is received back:
Not sure what to think other than I have been given the BOOT even though I got snookered into INVESTING in positions. (they hate it when you use the word invest instead of purchase – lol)…
Well seems like the crooks are running scared if they are resorting to ‘weeding out the bad ones’….LOL….the ride is over folks!!!
Send a fb message to one of the incredibly smart members of admin. They have the answers to everything
hey!! don’t cross the Line.
be Mean, civilly .
If this really was a legit business, it wouldn’t matter at all if people waited to join since this thing would be around forever, right?
Last time I checked, there’s nothing stopping anyone from buying stock in Microsoft or Apple.
Still waiting for an Admin to either fix my log in information or issue me a new password…..NO WORD yet!!! However, here is the latest update from Kristi:
@ Susan,
what you are experiencing is virtually straight out of the “Ponzi Admins Handbook” and not not confined to just you.
Remove all the huffing and puffing and Kristis’ nonsense updates and what remains is:
* nobody is being paid,
* Kristi herself admits any payments will only be for the first week of September, anyway
* nobody is being paid
* multiple member-victims are reporting multiple reasons being given for why they have been refused access to their account/s
* nobody is being paid
littleroundman – Well then…there is my answer….darn crooks…I can’t believe I actually bought into this…
I really thought I was ‘smart’ enough to know better…obviously I am NOT….oh well lesson learned!!
Sounds like banners broker excuse. Of course, they’ll never catch up. They’ll be stuck in perpetual September
@anjali
You are right..my apologies for being unethically mean.
the achieve mailing address in the terms and conditions was changed recently to an address that doesn’t appear to exist.
This happened after a very similar web site vnetelly was discovered. The vnetelly site had the same mailing address as achieve.
The terms and conditions were now removed from the vnetelly site.
Let’s take into account that one of the big earners (over $80000) and his Achieve maarketing director wife were owners of 5 “failed” businessesr registered in NZ which were “struck off” in NZ.
The main reason company or business Is struck off due to non pAying of taxes.
uh, what ? September 2015, or will achieve be travelling Back in Time to September 2014.
did kristi use her three dimensional algorithm to create a Time Machine ! IMPRESSIVE !!
Still can’t access my Achieve – Backoffice, but I’m not surprised, however I can still get into the The Achieve Community Updates because I dragged the icon into my ‘bookmarks’, so I can just click it and catch up….(hey Admins. there isn’t a thing you can do about it..I know you are following this thread!)…nothing new today.
Also looks like Troys FB page has been removed…one of them anyway. Speaking of addresses I found Troy Barnes at 14739 Parkview Street, Riverview, Mighigan, 48193…I wonder if this is his mothers house or just another fake address.
Susan,he supposedly just purchased the 900 sq ft house at 14739, valued at $30k recently.
The terms section now reads 33115 Warren Rd., Building 2, Suite 211 Westland, MI 48185. this doesn’t appear to exist??
Simple, someone go check the County Recorder’s office.
It’s probably this one instead:
forsalebyowner.com/property/33115-Warren-Rd-Apt-211-Westland-MI-48185/60582822
@jimbo, that address seems to be the Warrenwood apartment complex. There seem to be eight individual buildings running in numbers from 33105 on up (all odd numbers).
He still lives at the address where he bought the house his ex wife name is Kris. She lives in Romulus Michigan.the new address is boggess.
Ha,he is moving the multimillion $ business from his small bungalow to an apartment, nice move troy calling it a suite!
achieve terms and condition address just switched again, back to the 14739 Parkview address, somebody is slimey and sweatty
A refrigerator box is easy to keep moving.
No New Updates as of 12/11/2014 @ 7:00 am PST – This address thing is suspicious…my sister lives just outside of Detroit, where Troy supposedly lives nearby. I am going to send her on a ‘mission’ to look at both the Riverview Address and the 33105 Warren Road address.
There is a city named Warren because I used to live there, but I haven’t heard of a Warren Road before. I’ll get her to take a pic if she sees that scammer Troy….lol
Susan, good luck, the riverview, mi address shows a different owner on the wayne county and city of riverview web sites, suspicious indeed!!!
It’s a FACT that Troy Barnes does live at 14739 Parkview, Riverview, MI.
Thank you Joe, for the reassurance that the leader of the multimillion$ community lives at least part time at a possibly verified address through your joe knowledge.
Can you explain why he keeps changing the achieve address almost daily now?
It makes it almost impossible for people to contact him via mail, doubly impossible for non US residents and extremely difficult to have him served with any form of legal notifications.
And, it’s an extra form of protection should angry members decide to pay him a visit.
I was introduced to Troy early this summer. He gave me his cell number. (Ozedit: number removed)
I might have his home number but I am not home yet. I will check later.
Ease up on the sharing of non-public information.
Domain addresses is one thing, private cell numbers another.
latest update from Thursday
(FORUM??? – I can’t even access by backoffice and not ONE ADMIN responded to my numerous requests to reset my password!!
Now I guess in this new ‘forum’ you can say ANYTHING you want about Achieve – I don’t get it..plus I wasn’t invited into their little forum..:-( LOL!!
The minute I met Troy I knew he was a crook. I hope he goes down.
it’s ALWAYS next week…..geez…more stalling tactics.
I wonder if they are working on ‘processing’ their passports so they can get outta Dodge!! Lol
How many week had it been already? ;D
She means her and the admins are going to have big payouts next week that crook.
I seen that her admin have been deleting post of members trying to help each other get into their back office why would they do that? unless they are hiding something.
Did anyone look into turning in Kristi and Troy?
Wow, Achieve may have gone too far, as an (alleged) old woman who’s already sick with heart disease and with 86-yr old ailing husband was on the training call touting she trusted in God and put money into Achieve because she needed money.
And was told “you are exactly the type of person that Achieve is built around and for…”
WTF?!
patrickpretty.com/2014/12/12/federal-prosecutors-have-no-immediate-comment-on-achieve-community-call-in-which-senior-citizen-with-86-year-old-ailing-husband-was-told-you-are-exactly-the-type-of-person-that-the-achieve-comm/
Yes they have been reported I know a few people who have turned them into SEC.
A quote from trusted admin of Achieve in the Achieve forum
apparently the over zealous admin are at it again with the bullying..I though this was the place where anything can be talked about the achieve community.
so much for the anti spy system ( forum )..i have 3 friends who are paying members who tell me everything that goes on with achieve.
another bullying admin in the forum
on the conference call one of the hosts answered the question of receiving a 1099 tax forms for the first caller.
the host was specific in saying members would receive a 1099 MISC.
No Update as of yet: – Seems like the Admins are getting a tad testy with their rude and shouting comments…maybe they are getting scared of what they got themselves into with that Troy and Kristi….birds of a feather….;-)
Since when did being forced to face facts become having a “losing attitude”
I’m losing interest in these Achieve crooks!!! Nothing new, same crap updates, stalling tactics, and now the Admins are just acting like pure assholes!
Maybe they are pissed that not enough people are purchasing positions in time for these scam artists to make THEIR Christmas purchases and screwing up their holiday plans to faraway, exotic places….I sure hope that the authorities get on this one soon.
I dont understand why people are so mad about achieve. Let them do what they are doing. If you don’t think it will last ect then let it die out.
There are many more things you can do with your life then sitting here upset about achieve.
Okay – I have tried so many times to get into my back office to no avail…. plus I managed to get back into their Facebook site and when I posted a comment regarding the Admins overstepping their boundaries with their rude comments…
I received the message that my comment was ‘pending’ and then poof…I got the BOOT AGAIN!!! WTF?!?!…..
No way to connect with these people at all.
Guess I will hit the ‘send’ button to the SEC for the form that I have already completed, along with tons of information on this racket!!!
@Dr.
Why? So you and your buddies can rip off people quietly?
just like we don’t understand why scammers are mad we are helping people not lose their money.
Who is “mad” ??
a post from an apparent unhappy member of the facebook forum
here is another, so here you have it achieve believers…
according to the private fb forum a former cheerleader expresses his/her concerns regarding the achieve business
lol. after those 2 posts, seems ‘Dr. Bone’ is complaining on the wrong blog.
He wants to enjoy his “juicy steak” (ref: Cypher in The Matrix), “ignorance is bliss”, and all that.
lol. that’s awesome.
Has anyone seen ANY company that has used a “payment processor” that has lasted more than 2 years? Seriously, If a company can’t setup simple CC processing of their own it is not a company at all. Using a payment processor is just as idiotic as send money via Western Union. WHO does business like that? I have never seen a dumber bunch in my life.
Maybe i should just hate achieve to so i could fit in here. The whole thing is gonna crumble, the only people who make any money is the people at the top.. How did i do?
Pretty poorly. Although a lack of understanding of how a Ponzi scheme works is a characteristic of Achieve investors.
Nobody with a basic understanding of mathematics is investing here, other than those intentionally hell-bent on scamming people.
Note to Achieve investors: I get your mounting frustration. You invested and are slowly realizing you’ve been had.
This however is not the place to redirect your frustration and throw hissy fits. BehindMLM doesn’t have your money, Troy and Kristi do.
Depends on whether you believe it or not.
The only thing to come out of this is it’s been an very good litmus test of which people to NOT do business with of any kind as anyone who passed this off as legit is a guilty as the ones at the top who created it.
Got quite a list going of such idiots that I actually used to think were good people.
what i don’t understand is.. why all of you achievers, simply don’t just.. CHARGEBACK!!… just go to the bank, place a chargeback, and get your money back. that will cause payment processors to go ballistic on the achieve leaders, and everything will crumble down…
chargebacks people, it is their ULTIMATE FEAR. notice how on the sign up page in achieve, at the monet of payment, they specifically intimidate you against doing a chargeback.
you want to stick it to these peole? simple. CHARGEBACK
I did a chargeback weeks ago when Kristi’s stalling tactics wouldn’t stop…lame excuse after another so I did do a charge back almost right away…figured the longer I waited the less of a change I would have in being successful.
Payoneer is probably going ballistic all right… Who gets screwed when you are successful at doing a charge back… Payoneer or Troy and Kristi or everyone involved in this fraud?
Rather sad reading all these derogatory remarks about Achieve here….for what it’s worth the Achieve Community has delivered everything & more. My humble $50 gave me a return of $400 which I was able to cash out at my local ATM..that for me was a first!
If you don’t like Achieve leave well enough alone or get a day job.
I was thinking about joining achieve. Nobody that has put money into achieve has saw any profit except people at the top rite?
i think @OZ is better suited for that answer.
@Caron
For you perhaps, meanwhile there’s purportedly thousands still waiting for new investors to dump funds into the scheme so that they can steal from them.
Good thing your hip pocket has no bearing on whether or not Achieve is a Ponzi scheme or not.
But they aren’t paying out now so they can’t “delivered everything and more”. That’s a lie.
And you need people with real jobs to steal that atm money from. lol
Oh, c’mon.
You’re already in Achieve and/or promoting it and are just trolling … and not doing a great job of it … this blog, the way ponzi scum tend to do on sites that publish accurate information concerning whatever fraudulent scheme the ponzi scum is pushing.
On the slim chance that I’m wrong, if you’ve read the original review and related posts and are still dumb enough to put money into this thing, I don’t think anyone here cares one way or the other.
After all, as ponzi scum like to say “we’re all adults” and as such you’re entitled to make whatever foolish financial decision you want.
Actually, you have no proof of that. You only have their word that they did, plus some testimonials that you can’t verify, and maybe you got paid, which is ONE datapoint out of bazillion AC participants.
So what that proved is you take their words as fact, and everybody else’s as bull****, no evidence needed.
How does if feel to be so… gullible?
kristi update dec 15th:
who are the morons who continue to Pay In, when there is no date yet for the Pay Out processor?
bewildering?
Since Achieve’s cash is tainted and will likely be seized or confiscated once law enforcement makes its move, it’s clear Achieve’s most valuable asset is its client roster.
Furthermore, there are now enough data points that the roster could be sorted into various subgroups, ranked by their future value (gullibility). Clearly the most valuable subgroup would be those who have purchased after the relaunch.
If I were a Ponzi scumbag, I would pay top dollar for this list. Anyone willing to buy into a crumbling 8x cycler after its been halted for a month and has no payout capabilities is an Incredibly Special Breed of Idiot.
Achieve can bring $$$ IN, but can not PAYOUT???
Going on over 6 weeks now of “please continue to purchase/repurchase’…just hang on a bit longer for our payout processors to be in place”..yada, yada, yada…..lame excuse after another and people still think this is the ‘real deal’…
Yes DT7 that list would be awesome to have if you were a crook like Kristi and Troy.
Notice how Troy seems to have ‘disappeared’ from all sites…wonder what happened to him….maybe collecting bottles for the $$$….LOL!!
this man is preaching up in here XD
Check this out…
forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=64803
and this…
manta.com/c/mryjgt5/ultra-carpet-cleaning
I thought Payoneer was holding on to funds for just this reason.
Well if they are taking in money from assorted merchant accounts they probably do not have those fund in their hands at the moment.
Yet if they did why would they need a processor?
Just something to think about…
the money laundering merchants gives them an out to say ‘we never got the money’ and not pay out anything which is what they intend to do. There will be alleged ‘pay outs’ but that will be about it.
Self-selection, DT, self-selection, much like the King Solomon and the baby question. 🙂 Or why Nigerian spam sounds so stupid… Victims have to be stupid enough to click them.
Good work Joe, Did you ever get paid back for the pool cues?
Jimbo – they were not my pool cues. Someone posted this on google looking for Troy Barnes. I just searched his name and this came up.
Has anyone contacted a local news company to see if they will investigate this company? It says he is WWTB Inc. but is he really incorporated.
Fox2 News has a Hall of a Shame scam news reporter.
kristi update 16th,dec:
i think kristi has a bachelor of science degree. apparently someone has taught her some incredible math, about a cycler sustaining itself without new members investing continuously.
and ahem, don’t miss the accent on ‘products’ because no one is investing anymore, they’re buying banners and advertising to themselves!
So it seems that Achieve just got a payout processor according to their latest update: Global Cash Card.
I wonder if they get some kind of commission from them since they are adamant that no one should go and sign up with them on their own:
They don’t want GCC to know it’s for a scam.
@Spike
To me it sounds like they’re going to import an affiliate database and hook them up with Global Cash Card accounts. This is for outgoing funds only.
Achieve are likely earning commissions on funds coming in via iPayDNA.
I think the volume of transfers between iPayDNA and Global Cash Card to pay out members will set off money laundering triggers. iPayDNA operate using Chinese bank accounts but Gobal Cash Card are US-based (California).
i saw some1 in achieve just bought a position. Despite all we do an say here, its failing.
This just in from Kristi. Troy has dropped out of Achieve.
So what, he cashed out, bought some stuff (a house, a go-kart), paid some medical bills and now poof?
Guess he finished his Christmas shopping!
Didn’t see that one coming…
Barnsey’s taken your money and run folks. As I mentioned weeks ago, the admins and top investors encourage their downline to reinvest while they secretely withdraw.
Wanna hedge your bets as to how much Barnes reinvested back into AC?
And guess who’s going to be left holding the bag when the authorities come calling?
Something spooked them. I wouldn’t be too surprised if there’s a demand for information filed on them already under seal by AG or some other agency. This thing may live past Christmas, but it’s walking dead.
@Oz
Perhaps there is no actual relationship with Global Cash Card. Maybe it’s just another stall tactic.
For weeks Kristi has been calming the masses with a story of a massive programming project to integrate the backoffice with the new unnamed payment processor.
Today we learned this was a lie when she introduced GCC, a processor that requires no backoffice integration — GCC mails the payment cards directly to the members.
By naming GCC as the payout processor, the members are no longer expecting some kind of UI change in their backoffice. They won’t require a backoffice integration as proof that things are moving forward. There will no longer be a moment when they sign up with the new processor, thus confirming the establishment of a tangible relationship.
By announcing GCC, the members just take Kristi’s word for it, and then sit back and wait for the cards to show up in the mail.
When the cards never show up, there will be plenty of parties to place the blame. The members entered their address incorrectly. The postal carrier lost the package, etc…
Hello Everyone
I, so far, like Achieve. Yes, I’m a little disappointed with the amount of time it’s taking to get our Global Cards and starting to get paid, but “Hey”, why not just wait and see what’s going to happen.
Most of us have been in many many failed programs, which have nothing to do with Kristi, nor Troy. So this is just another program that we’re hoping will do better than all the others we’ve tried.
I’m a willing participant. I’ll mostlikely get negative comment(s) from naysayers on that, but that’s fine.
Some may listen to the negativity, but it would be nice if everyone things for themselves, and make up their own mines.
My mine is made up. I want to be around to see what happens. I’d like to be one of the positive participants. Everyone will always have their views and comments – in all things. That’s fine also.
Why would I kill something that I’m participating in? If it doesn’t work, it won’t be because I helped it fail, but discouraging others not to participate or to get out (jump ship). However it goes, I pushing for Achieve.
Wait? You have no choice but to wait if you have invested funds. Yet to ignore the facts you are in yet another failed scheme is just plain foolish.
Experience by now should be telling you to get out and fat away from this maybe before you or anyone else wastes their time energy and money on this. What will it take to wake you up.
The problem is with the sort of attitude star66 exhibits is it ignores the fact that any money he / she makes comes out of the pocket of someone who joined after he / she did.
It’s all very convenient to drag out the usual HYIP ponzi fraud players’ excuses just like star66 has i.e “we’re all adults, we can make our own choices” and “never invest more than you can afford to lose” or “focus on the positive” and “naysayers are all dreamstealers”
The problem with that reasoning is it overlooks both the illegality and extreme immorality of schemes such as Achieve.
Maybe star66 doesn’t mind living in a world where it’s perfectly OK for the smart to rip off the naive, gullible and desperate.
Where the rule of the jungle applies and only the “strong” should survive, and the only consideration for the elderly, gullible, naive and trusting is an admission they make better victims and are less likely to retaliate.
Good luck in that kind of world, star66.
So I guess that means you will be off to jump into the next new thing that comes along.?
With hope you got in early enough to be paid before it goes bust.
We come to remove me a 22-euro payment by the site SUYINGSHOP.COM it is who?
or perhaps you just haven’t gotten through your own head that there is no easy money, and you’re making money through recruiting.
In other words, you have FAITH, not facts. You believe in Achieve because you want to, no evidence needed.
That’s not a business. That’s a CULT.
and like such, they take advantage of:
(jim jones anyone?)
this is why we have this blog, to be the voice of warning, to all those elderly, gullible, naive and desperate people.
Have any of you guys been to Las Vegas? or bought a lottery ticket? smh
@Dorothy
What does vegas and lottery tickets have to do with Ponzi schemes?
Put down the copy of ‘Ponzi excuses 101’ and try again.
update:
What does facebook have to do with the processors and i thought they already had processors?
Why did Kristi go on to say if the fb group continues they will have trouble getting processors to work with achieve if they already had processors as claimed previously.. does anyone else see that this latest update as contradictory ?
Any legit payment processor wouldn’t give two shits about what is or isn’t published on Facebook about one of their clients.
The smoke and mirrors meter just went through the roof…
they are setting up the excuse for collapse to distract from the real excuse of running with the coin.
The forum is a joke..its a ponzi pimp free for all
I don’t play games where I don’t know the odds. Or have the rules change on me in midplay. If you do, well, speaks for your judgement.
BULL****. They got kicked off Facebook for spamming is the far more plausible reason.
More lies from Kristi and troy. They are hiding and covering up the fact that they are washed up as a program. More stalling and lies.
Meanwhile people are doing charge backs like crazy, expect the feds to be on this very very soon.
Before they get arrested … just make sure Troy gets engaged to another woman from Mars or Venus.
Such a big fake show on his Facebook profile
I got a ‘ticket confirmation’ back from the SEC indicating that they are investigating this Achieve and also referred to me another govt agency that they felt would also be interested.
I hope they keep me informed as to how much shit Troy and especially Kristi will be in….I hope they spend a lot of time in the slammer!! Fucking scammers!!
@Susan
US regulators don’t confirm or deny MLM company investigations unless the company discloses it first.
They might have sent you a confirmation they received your correspondence, but I wouldn’t read too much into it.
I just entered the matrix I’m getting paid just like Kristi and Troy said…. it is not a scam lol.
I purchased my positions just a few months ago its working for me. Have no idea what you people are talking about.
Without a payment processor set up yet?
Go oooooooooooooooon…
*waits for “but the numbers on my screen are money rite?” followup*
I purchased some positions and all is good I went through the matrix no problems and I’m still repurchasing.
The matrix is doing what Troy and Kristi says it does.
While you guys sit here and go back and forth on this chat string I will have made $14,400.00 LOL.
So keep talking people..lol
Ah, there it is. Well, at least you’re being honest now – in that you’ve made dick.
Keep the faith though, I’m sure there’ll be an endless parade of suckers from you to steal from.
I’ll tell you what,
you take what you will have made plus 50c to Starbucks and you still won’t have enough for a coffee.
If you have repurchased positions then you haven’t really made any MONEY? You have made some additional “positions” in the matrix, 2 months after the scheme stopped paying any money out (other than to a few “insiders”).
@ OZ – Your right – this is what I received
More lies from scammer Kristi
Until it’s in your account all you have is some random numbers on a webpage. Don’t laugh too early.
the above department , called LARA has a state securities division, under its umbrella.
not sure, why the SEC says they only look into federal securities violations, because ‘achieve’ is clearly a federal matter, crossing state boundaries. or maybe the SEC are not outing any info, at this point.
it would be a good idea to address complaints to the securities division of LARA. the size of the scam [not very large], may have something to do with involving state level securities investigation.
Just in looks like more lies for the ponzi acheive… They still don’t have a payment payout processor which tells me this ponzi is done….
I cant believe I joined that thing, and that i am loosing tons of money…
I feel the dummest person in the whole world! Never again 🙁
Sounds like any Achievers who haven’t been paid yet can kiss their money good-bye.
No surprise there.
Lucky (for Kristi) that the “payment in” processor is apparently still happy to work with Achieve.
Some people, eager to “make back” what they lost, joins even MORE suspect schemes.
Beware the temptations.
troy left with a sack full of money, and kristi was just running a collection center for herself, this last month.
restructure indeed! liar liar pants on fire.
kristi will clear out the bank, and show everyone the finger.
achievers, well done, you’ve been had.
Who’s laughing now?
well, congratulations…you managed to destroy the dreams and even the very lives of several thousand very dear people, whose only dream was to find a way to live in peace on the internet and use it for a way to do collective commerce of some sort…
yeah, it was an experiment…the kind of thing that should be on the web, helping people form bonds and try to work together to do commerce and change the world…mostly good people, honest people, many disabled or elderly or homeless who have given up all hope now.
these were basically friendly people that wanted things to work and to be fair for all somehow…instead of destroying it for your own satisfaction or greed if you had any decency perhaps you would have tried to find a way to help them make an honest business together instead of spreading lies and false accusations against the innocent and fear mongering and name calling of all sorts and illegal slander and libel, not to mention just plain bigotry.
i hope you are proud and i hope you got good traffic from your drama and satisfaction and profits…. you are not people, you are cartoon characters, bent on the destruction of any new idea you come across and for what…to sell your fear and hatred of all and to get a few lousy clicks and to spew hatred.
you have destroyed lives… kristi was a nice person… yeah she got in too deep too fast and maybe did not know what she was in for and neither did the rest of us. you destroy, people are hurt. they wanted something different. they tried. what did you do for anyone? nothing, absolutely nothing.
the people at acheive were real people and they actually helped people. you are a nothing. i will die now. i hope you are happy.
by the way… they never sold any securities… so the sec would have been the wrong place to complain if you had any complaints about their perfectly decent product… an incomplete product, but certainly better than the garbage you folks put out, which is nothing but hatred and libel.
scammers looking to steal money from suckers who invested after them.
Sounds like a job well done and highfives all round!
Note it was Achieve’s Ponzi business model that did them in, hence the rejection from legitimate payment processors and need for “restructuring”. Not to mention the basic mathematical fact that paying out 800% ROIs is unsustainable.
Ponzi schemes cannot be made honest. The only decent thing to do is to call them out for what they are.
Anyone who’s life was destroyed by investing in Ponzi schemes like Achieve made their own bed. Now it’s time to lie in it.
You can either be a drama queen or accept that you got scammed and move on with life. Harsh, but that’s the world we live in.
Full of gullible idiots such as yourself who will defend the scammers who stole from them, right to the bitter end.
so, if kristi is a nice person, and dint know what she was doing, ask her to refund the money you invested.
she’s nice, so she’ll send you a cheque.
why blame behindmlm, when kristi has the power to solve your problem?
predict exactly what was going to happen, right down to the timing of Achieves’ eventual collapse.
We didn’t do anything except pointing out it’s a scam.
We take no joy in being right. In fact, we are sad for all of you to have to learn such a harsh lesson, but if you had listened to us…
One can’t destroy what wasn’t real in the first place. You’ve been paying into a mirage all along. Aim at the right target: the ones who defrauded you, not the ones who told you you’re being defrauded.
Ponzi schemes have been around for a hundred years. It’s not new. Only government can create money out of nothing. AC’s claim to magically multiply your money is just gobblygook to trick you. There is no magic. It’s just math.
Yeah right, and TelexFree and Zeek Rewards “never sold any securities” either. And who said the SEC had acted? You’re just barking up the wrong tree… on the wrong street.
But, but, but … Kristi said:
Doesn’t sound like she thinks Achieve has been destroyed.
Don’t you trust her, lol?
This doesn’t seem to be Kristi or Troy’s first trip to the ponzi/pyramid scheme rodeo … though perhaps their first as owners … so any suggestion that either they … or anyone else heavily promoting Achieve … weren’t aware of the ponzi scheme reality is ludicrous.
I don’t know who comprises the “rest of us” you mention however, any U.S. Achiever who wasn’t aware of the nature of the scheme, e.g., got sucked into it by a friend who claimed it was legit, and was subsequently defrauded, might … given your concern that the SEC isn’t the appropriate agency to contact … want to use the contact info below to discuss the matter.
secretservice.gov/field_offices.shtml
This agency has previous experience with similar schemes, such as this one:
secretservice.gov/press/GPA16-08_ASDRelease.pdf
And don’t forget to mention Kristi and Troy’s name … and whoever promoted the scheme to you … when you call.
There are all sorts of resources available on the web for those looking to start “an honest business”. There’s nothing I can see on the BehindMLM “About” page that would indicate this site to be one of those resources.
Re: “lies”, I’m not sure what you’re referring to as I haven’t come across anything that suggests to me that Oz is “spreading lies” on this blog.
But on this topic, a “big lie” spread on the web is that there’s an easy, or “passive”, route to wealth that is “achieve(able)” to “anyone”, regardless of their lack business knowledge/experience, education, money, work ethic, etc.
Schemes like Achieve profit from promulgating this “big lie” and sites like BehindMLM can help someone to avoid being victimized by those who, for their own profit, push this “big lie”.
Seems to me that if anyone has destroyed anyone’s “dreams”, or perhaps “delusions” is closer to the mark, it’s the folks running the scheme and the heavy promoters. Go cry to them, assuming you’re not one of them.
I mean, I’ve got a pretty good idea of who a judge would hold accountable, and it ain’t Oz or any non-ponzi pusher commentator on this blog.
Anyone see the latest updates from Achieve? Processor says they are not doing business with Achieve and admins were aware. This a day after update from Kristi blaming Facebook members for payment processor issue, while at the same time continuing to take new members money!!!
This woman is SLIM and its time someone teaches her a lesson!!!! I hope the 20,000 members file a lawsuit against her!!!
Oz covered the news yesterday in this article:
behindmlm.com/companies/achieve-community/achieve-community-in-crisis-no-processor-not-compliant/
Here is a resource for individuals feeling extreme distress. You’re never alone.
twitter.com/800273TALK
Maybe it was best for all happen so. The love of money is the root of all evil and moreover the man must live the sweat of his face as the Bible says.
Maybe it was best for Kristi and Troy happen so.
The love of money is the reason Troy bought a new house from all the money he stole from everyone in achieve, and Kristi gets new cars and luxury shopping excursions, and glorious trips around the world.
And moreover the man and his fake wife along with Liar Kristi must live the sweat of his face in federal prison for running a Ponzi Scam inside the usa to defraud others.
You do of course have proof of those claims Secwatchin?
I’m not defending Achieve in any way, but wild accustions made with no evidence whatsoever don’t help any investigation by the authorities.
Yes, just as I thought Secwatchin, you made up those accusations and have nothing at all to back them up with.
I am just wondering why everyone kept saying it is 800% ROI. It is actually 700%.
(400-50)/50=700%
BREAKING NEWS
CONFIRMED achieve is NOW UNDER SEC investigation in state of Colorado…. Can JAIL be in the forecast for scammers Kristi and Troy?
patrickpretty.com/2015/01/22/urgent-bulletin-moving-colorado-division-of-securities-confirms-achieve-community-investigation/
@Just
Ponzi convention holds that we don’t subtract the initial investment when calculating a Ponzi ROI.
I don’t know who came up with the standard (Charles Ponzi himself?), but I just go with the flow as it makes things easier when reporting.
Hi does anyone know the latest on achieve it seems to be continuing and kristi and troy just paisting feel good things on fb everyday while people keep investing.
Achieve will continue to pay out starting this week. It’s all good Achieve is back better then ever. You guys need to get a life you all are pathetic. So sad!!
wow you are out of the loop. They haven’t paid out since Sept.
you are not getting paid. But you already knew that and is why you are here.
Will be a matter of time soon that Kristi and Troy get arrested.
Are you happy now.
There’s nothing “happy” about people getting scammed out of millions of dollars.
Nobody was being scammed. Everyone was getting paid in their turn. I know because I did get paid when my turn came.
A few people who got removed from the facebook group were so upset that they decided to get the authorities involved to “investigate” Achieve.
Kristi left because of not being able to take the pressure. She did not leave with any of the members money. It is all frozen at the moment.
The program was working very well, but since some people were kicked out of the FB group due to their own negativity, they decided to make all of these false accusations and begin unwarranted investigations. So yes, Are You Happy NOW!
Based on what? New investor funds coming and suckers re-investing what they stole?
As per the mechanics of a Ponzi scheme, as liabilities increased those who invested last were going to lose out. The number of these investors grows over time, with earlier investors withdrawing the lion’s share of invested funds.
All Ponzi schemes pay out initially, so that’s neither here nor there. Thankfully this one was shut down before it wreaked too much damage.
As for the rest of your waffle, it’s fiction. As I understand it both Achieve Community admins are facing criminal charges.
That’s why Johnson has maintained radio silence. Barnes was in denial, but due to things escalating even he can’t plug his ears with his fingers any more.
I’m going to let the regulators take the lead on this one, so stay tuned for updates from them.
It has not been “shut down”. The site is still up. The funds are frozen because of the investigation started by your petty crying because of being removed from a fb group. Really???
Don’t give me your “expert” crap on ponzis. Like I said EVERONE was getting paid in their turn until you assholes started complaining because you weren’t getting paid fast enough or you were kicked out of a fb group — not because they were proven to be a ponzi scheme.
Do you even know how a Ponzi scheme works? Each invested position requires X amount of new investments to pay its $400 ROI.
Over time, X increases exponentially until the Ponzi scheme collapses. Come on son, this is basic elementary-level mathematics.
The funds are frozen because an investigation by Attorney Generals across two state lines. Ponzi schemes are illegal in the US.
You are free to call up an Attorney General’s Office on Monday and let them know you were kicked out of a Facebook group. Let us know how long till they hang up on you.
Man, people getting scammed out of millions isn’t amusing but some of the bullshit Achieve Community’s investors come up with sure is.
Like I said, your watered-down ponzi description does not even come close to describing all of the elements of what a ponzi scheme is composed of.
You can make yourself sound like you know what the fuck your talking about to the other people that read your crap, but you I see right through your nonsense. You were pissed for being locked out of the FB group and you can’t man up to that fact. Period.
And now you may just have ruined for many families what was a legit source of income for them. You’re continued spewing of crap just emphasizes your lack of shame.
The fact that you’re saying something or believe in something doesn’t make it true in itself?
Achieve Community stopped paying money OUT in early November 2014, when Payoneer terminated its services because of too high risk. Achieve may have paid out some random amounts after that to a few selected people, but most people have been unable to withdraw any money.
I haven’t followed the Achieve Community case, so I’m not sure my version is 100% correct. But I believe my version is more correct than the one you presented.
@Barnui
The five stages of grief and loss:
DENIAL
ANGER
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
@Barnui
and as with every scam like this…….not one mention of a product in all these scammers excuses.
Sounds like you’re an insider in AC. Care to enlighten us? I’m sure Colorado and Michigan would LOVE to hear what you have to say.
(Ozedit: This is not the place for religious mumbo-jumbo. God doesn’t like Ponzi schemes, neither should you.)
Definitions of a PONZI SCHEME
1) usually offers high investment returns with little or no risk (ie: “we promise to turn your $50 into $400”)
2) usually are unregistered investments, meaning there was no background information of either Kristi Johnson’s or Troy Barnes’s company, services, management or their finances,
3) are usually unlicensed sellers, meaning that the Achieve Community was selling a service and as such, should have been licensed and registered with the SEC
4) usage of complex strategies such as a “Matrix” or “3d algorhythms” to which an investor could not understand nor was it explained
5) usually has difficulty in allowing payments or withdrawals (ie-investors given the many excuses that processors were not intact or programers working 24/7 to correct problems).
While these are some of the red flags of a PONZI SCHEME as related to the Achieve Community, there are others as well.
There were, of course some payouts, as all PONZIs do cunningly show, but this is usually to attract additional investors or to give hope to existing ones, that the idea to keep “repurchasing positions” will allow the program to sustain itself forever.
We now know this to be false. As much as an investor wishes it to be true (for whatever reason) will not make it so and all PONZIs do come to an eventual end, usually to the detriment of the investors.
Regardless of how this thread actually happened is not so important now as is the reality that both Kristi Johnson and Troy Barnes are at the mercy of a Federal Investigation for their part in what, as described above, is a legitimate PONZI SCHEME/SCAM.
Seems like the SEC has an open investigations on Achieve as well as Barnes and Johnson….assets have been frozen until the SEC has finished their investigation.
I only got suckered for $50.00….I charged the rest back…$350.00. I will never get snookered again…I feel for the people that ‘invested’ more….:-(
Seems like Barnes and Johnston stole around $3.8 million…one of them withdrew around $141,000 while the other (not too sure which one of the scumbags) withdrew slightly less for their personal use…wtf!!
It is clearly a scam!
I work for an international law firm and I can assure you this is a proper Ponzi Scheme. Whenever you are paid for someone else subscribing, well, this is a pyramid scheme!
And they’re not honest people at all! They managed to deceive a lot of people with their easy-going, friendly behaviour, but they definitely knew what they were doing!
We managed to collect investors’ money in some cases, especially when there are a lot of people involved and interested in having back what they “invested”. And everytime it was the same Ponzi scheme!
Beware of those who promise easy money…
I remembered reading the transcript from a YouTube video involving TAC “triple algorithm” and “3-D matrix.”
It was worded something like: “one night it just came to me, a 3D matrix. It is so complex I can not describe it!” Triple Algorithm to me = triple shell game, and 3D Matrix = 3D pyramid. The Achieve Community was a Ponzi scheme.
I am not a math whiz, however I know a Ponzi schemes is a zero sum game. No money is made and no money is lost in a zero sum game.
I believe a money pyramid structure is possible where nobody loses more than they’re principal pay-in, infact recieves a ROI because a pyramid/ponzi scheme is a zero sum game.
If the money is shuffled correctly, I believe mathematically a pyramidal money structure can work, meaning nobody loses.
Uh, that’s what also happens in a Ponzi scheme…
With the advent of online scams people are “paid” monopoly money on a screen until they cash out.
Far too often they’re encouraged to re-invest, but when they scheme collapses all they lose is what they initially invested.
You can’t create money out of thin air, Ponzi or pyramid people are going to lose money.
I don’t think you understood what you said but clearly you are not a math whiz.
No matter how you shuffle the money around someone has to lose.
Zero sum game means no one wins or loses. This is never the case with these money games.
How do you think a casino works. They make money from the losers not because everyone wins.
The big diffence here is In Achieve and other such programs everyone goes in thinking they will be the winner. The result is always the same. More losers than winners.
So start with a pile of money and when there is none left. You have many people crying they didn’t get paid.
The money does not grow – it is just handed out on a first come first served basis.
If you play late in the game you won’t be paid but they will gladly take your money. There is no structure possible that will work unless people agree to lose their money.
Which is gambling.
Your zero sum game would be – a person pays $10 and gets back the same $10. They gained nothing and lost nothing.
There is no other way to play that game. In order to gain someone must lose.
Math doesn’t lie.
great theory,
on paper.
what relevance does it have, though, when participants don’t know it’s a “game” and, instead think they are participating in a real business and making donations to charity, and, to make things worse, the so called “game” is itself illegal ???
– no ‘net’ money is created or destroyed in a zero sum game. a static amount of money, just changes hands.
zero sum game:
– yes, in a ponzi/pyramid scheme, people may not lose more than their principal pay in, but how is this Right to you?
– only a few people at the top, will receive an ROI, the majority [over 90%] will receive nothing. how is this Right to your non math whiz mind?
– not go off on the, ‘its like gambling or lottery’ track. pyramid/ponzi schemes are illegal the world over.
Math is right. I forgot to add in this sentence “[I believe] if the money is shuffled correctly, I believe mathematically a pyramidal money structure can work, meaning nobody loses.”
OK, a pyramid money structure where all participants get pay-outs more than pay ins isn’t mathematically possible. People between my posts are right.
Could a pyramid money structure be engineered in a “Gold, Silver, Bronze” fashion, where nobody has to lose? I believe a pyramid money structure can work when the pay-outs get exponentially smaller as participants got exponentially larger.
To simplify what I articulate a three tired “Gold, Silver, Bronze” entry structure. People who get in Earliest get the “Gold” (highest) pay-out tier, people after the “gold” tier, the “silver” tier, same process for the “bronze”.
I believe a pyramid money structure can be formulated so nobody loses through tapering pay-outs & participants.
However you set it up, you can’t pay an affiliate more than they put in without someone else coming up short.
And any hypotheticals that require infinite cash injection are a waste of time.
why will people join at the bronze level, where you offer them exponentially smaller payouts, for exponentially growing participants?
they will go to your friendly neighbor ponzi organiser, and join his scheme at the ‘gold’ level.
then how are you going to run your scheme perpetually, with no one ever losing money, since no one will join you at lower levels ?
could common sense trump your theoretical math? theoretically you can keep decreasing the payout, to infinity, but what does this mean in practical terms? gobbledygook.
Yes, and it has been done by crediting the participant 100% infinitely for ANY sales that occur in the organization with no cutoff in depth.
This is sustainable by capping incomes at a low threshold. If you want make more money you have to re-enter a position UNDER your existing organization. (this is NOT the same as reinvesting).
Its about supporting the people who supported you so there is no “top” and no “bottom”.
Thats part of how the Binomial marketing system was setup and the MAJORITY of people (95%) have been making money with it for over 20 years.
Many companies have tried to copy bits and pieces of it, but they wind up injecting the greed back in with bonuses and other methods to funnel all the money to the top anyway, and turn it right back into a pyramid or MLM.
They call themselves, Binary plans. They are an offshoot of how the system was SUPPOSED to work.
Thats why I cringe a little when I hear people call a plan “binary”. There is only ONE company that has a Binary (binomial) plan, and that the one who created it.
your ‘binomial marketing system’ seems like weasel words for ‘Cycler’ to me.
everybody keeps moving up your vertical system and gets paid. then they reenter/repurchase under their team, and get in line to get cycled out again.
since people make profit without any real sales, new joinings will always be required to keep the binomial cycler going.
if everyone repurchases positions below, and the ROI is kept low, it can be kept going for some time, without depending fully, but nonetheless requiring, new funds. like a cycler in slow motion, or something.
troy and kristi talked about ‘re purchasing positions’ all the time, but with an 800% ROI they were spinning into a quick abrupt death. binomial marketing system is just a fancy title for product based ponzi/pyramid.
i know which company you are talking about, it’s plastered all over the net, they are just a bigger, more complicated, better dressed up version, of achievecommunity.
Zero sum game means “one participant win, the other participant lose”. It doesn’t mean “nobody loses”. The whole group of participants will always lose because of expenses.
The system as a whole will never be able to pay out more money than the participants pay in, so the group as a whole will never have any profit.
You didn’t support your theory with any math. You only supported it with a statement “math is right”, and a vague theory about “if money is shuffled correctly”.
DEFINITION of ‘Zero-Sum Game’ A situation in which one person’s gain is equivalent to another’s loss, so the net change in wealth or benefit is zero. A zero-sum game may have as few as two players, or millions of participants.
Which is to say that if one person/group wins the other person/group MUST lose (by definition)
It is non-sensical to believe everybody can win in a zero sum game. It would not be a zero sum game under those conditions.
Ha ha, I can see where you would think that. In the context of this site I would think the exact same thing.
This is not cycling positions. its opening up another business. The income comes ONLY from product sales.
The Company is 23 years old, BBB torch award, A+ rated, has done over $7Billion in sales and has paid out around $4Billion in Commissions. They have never had a down quarter of growth since inception. (92 consecutive growth quarters) Never had a legal issue and never will.
Out of the 53% of the distributors in the company who are on “autoship” 49% of them are making an income above operating expenses. Again, all based on Volume. There are zero recruiting bonuses. Definitely not a Cycler 🙂
How much of that was retail?
OK, let’s ask oz to do a write up on this ‘perfect’ binomial cycler company and see how the chips fall.
psst, You ask.
You are correct that a ponzi is a zero sum game, but you misunderstand what a zero sum game is. Expressed mathematically a zero sum game looks like this; +1 – 1 = 0.
The final position of the participants in the game is winner (+1) and loser (-1)
If you want a zero sum game “where no money made or lost” it must look like this; 0+0 = 0 (and that is a very fruitless endeavor).
“49% of 53%” isn’t the same as “95% of the participants”. It will be “26% of the participants”.
47% of the participants were not on autoship. You didn’t say anything about them.
If a product purchase is REQUIRED to earn commission, it will be an “operating expense” for the income. 100% of the purchase cost will need to be deducted from the income as an expense.
Personal consumption can’t be added to revenue or be subtracted from expenses in business. Personal consumption may be TAXABLE as income for the owner of the business, but that doesn’t mean the owner has made any money on the consumption. Consumption isn’t a “profitable activity”.
If a TLC rep order a $1,500 startup kit plus 11 months autoship of $40, the whole amount of $1,940 plus shipment will need to be deducted as operating expenses. Any tax liability for personal consumption can’t be seen as an “income” for the business, e.g. the owner can’t use personal consumption to pay bills.
Autoship is not required to earn comissions.
49% of ALL reps who have been in at least 12 months, earn a comission above operating expenses.
I AM including autoship as “operating cost” BUT, if the products on the order are products you would be buying from the store ANYWAY, it really shouldnt be.
I took some liberties is saying that 95% are successful because being on an autoship has benefits beyond volume. If a rep is not taking advantage of it then they are not taking the business seriuos. Either way, 49% is still 40 to 400 times the success rate that most MLM’s have.
What does TLC have to do with what I am talking about?
first of all, why does your ‘perfect’ company not have it’s compensation plan on its website? a 20 year old company, is not confident enough about its ‘magical’ plan, to allow public access?
it’s all yak yak yak, but hello, people don’t want ‘paragraphs’, they want to see and study the ‘compensation plan’.
now how will oz do a write up?
No but he can use personal consumption to avoid paying bills so it amounts to roughly the same thing, (taxes not considered.)
First of all.. This is not about me or my company. Someone said why cant the math be changed to make a fair comp plan. I said ‘it has’ and gave an example. It should have been left at that.
With that said, I addressed your comments anyway and showed where you were not accurate in your assumptions. The best you could come up with for a rebutle is this changeing the subject nonsense?
Second: I dont think you even know what company I am talking about. If you did You would have seen the comp plan on its website as plain as day along with other performance highlights.
Third: If thats the case, I have lost all respect for you coming on here and chiming in on something you havnt even looked at.
Our track record speaks for itself. Dont need reviews.
Retail/resale profits are not considered in the income disclosure. The number I am referring to is commissions alone.
We have people earning 6 figures on product sales alone, regardless of commissions or the presence of a sales team.
Our top retailer last year did somewhere in the range of $400,000 in personal sales.
Customers are not in the pay plan. We have 3 million customers that purchase on a regular basis and another 3 million casual customers. We have roughly 80,000 distributors on “autoship” which averages out to $120/month give or take.
80,000 X $120 = $115M
We did $650M for 2013
Does that answer the question Oz?
Not really.
Sales revenue can be affiliate autoship, customer autoship, affiliate purchases and retail customer purchases.
You can’t cite affiliate autoship figures and assume the rest is retail. Reason being that non-autoship affiliate purchases might dwarf out retail.
Earning commissions on product sales alone means nothing if affiliates are the only ones purchasing said product.
We have 3 million customers whos purchases average over $500M/year. That is sales on the company branded products. Sales of affiliate partner store products are not included in the sales figures.
Our #1 selling product (out of 2000+) does over $2M a week in re-orders from customers.
Personally I have about 180 customers, I have roughly 30 of them that order company branded products every month and another 30 or so that do it occasionally, and I have one customer on autoship.
I would say about 120 of them order fairly regularly through partner stores. You would probably want to call the partner store’s “affiliates” but we do have direct contracts with them.
These are all rough numbers, just going off of memory from last years report. Its a private company, but we still publish a full finantial report and balance sheets each year that is independently audited. The report for 2014 should be out any day now..
Im not here to brag about my company. My only intent here is to show that something fair CAN actually be done in direct sales.
Nothing is perfect. BUT, I would say that an overall, per capita success rate of people making an income above operating expenses, that is at lest 40 to 400 times higher than the averages (40 for product companies & 400 for service related companies), coupled with an actual customer base, means we are doing SOMETHING right.
We have retained 73% of every rep that has EVER come to work with us. Not 73% measured over one year…. EVER!
Again, Not perfect but its better than anything else out there in networking. Surely you can appreciate my actual facts and figures rather than the usual rhetoric and meaningless themes that are typically presented here?
The IDS reads like this.
Out of ALL the reps, active/inactive or whether they got a check or not:
51.38% made between $1 and $1000 in commissions
16.51% made between $1001 and $3000
6.55% made between $3001 and $5000
9.31% made between $5001 and $10,000
5.24% made between $10,001 and $20,000
4.06% made between $20,001 and $30,000
3.8% made between $30,001 and $80,000
3.15% Made over $80,001
* this does not include retail profits or distributors that have been enrolled less than 12 months.
I would also add here that the average weighted earnings is over $63,000/yr.
“weighted” = distributors who are filling out their sales reciepts and accountability paperwork and showing that they are actually participating in business development.
The only other thing I would add is that the #1 rep only does about $1.3 Million per year. With the dollar volume we do, and the fact that any earners over $3000 have almost the exact same success rate as each other, what does that tell you?
Usually we are talking about income INequality in netwoking with the top 1% making 90% of the income. HERE, for all practical purposes we get to talk about the opposite.
Believe it or not 🙂
When you say “customers” are you talking exclusively retail customers or are you including affiliates who purchase “company branded products” (via autoship or otherwise)?
So somebody has to lose in a zero sum game, if somebody “wins”. I still believe a Ponzi/pyramid/cycler scheme could be formulated where nobody involved loses more than they’re principal pay-in.
While I have pondered over pyramidal money structures that do not earn any profit, I have a theory about a pyramidal money structure that earns actual profits.
How about a “Ponzi-lite” scheme where there are actual profits earned, but some money is shifted to earlier participants? I know that as long as the Ponzi-lite scheme had more money coming in than the Ponzi-lite was paying out, it can’t collapse.
Well sure. People invest and the scheme pays back everyone their own money.
What’s the point?
Both Zeek Rewards ($850 million) and TelexFree ($1.8 billion) had token retail activity taking place.
They were both on the verge of collapsing when they were shut down and hundreds of thousands of people lost money.
What you referred to as “Ponzi-lite” is just a regular Ponzi scheme in its initial phase. Eventually ROI liabilities kill the scheme.
You can’t beat mathematics…
Ill see if I can answer some of the subsequent questions too 🙂
Customers are customer’s. Distributors are distributors. They are completely seperate. Customers are NOT in the pay plan.
There is no membership’s, terms, conditions, or charges for customers. A customer is simply anyone that has purchased a product who is NOT in the pay plan.
A customer is considered a customer when they register with us. They can register with just their email address. No CC or personal info is required.
A customer does NOT even HAVE to register to make a purchase or view the products. Registration is totally optional. Registering will give them cashback and other bennefits so there is an incentive to do it, but it is certainly not required.
Also, The company retains no customers or sales their own. We boldly show up on search engines as offering products that people are searching for and have millions of unique visitors per month.
Any sales or customers generated by those corporate efforts are given to the engaged distributors on a rotating basis.
Fair enough, let’s leave it at then (seeing as we’re wildly offtopic).
ha ha.. agreed 🙂
With minimal or nonexistent additional revenue source, all the scheme does is transfer money around, so for someone to win, others have to lose. A scheme with no losers is a scheme nobody would join, as there are no winners either.
Yes
Don’t think to hard on that. A full blown illegal ponzi has every intention of stealing no more than the principal that investors pay in….which is to say, a ponzi’s purpose is to take every bit of principal someone is willing to invest and redistribute to others.
You don’t have to reinvent this wheel… its already been done.
Well, now we are approaching June 2015 and know that Troy and Kristi ripped us off and are on the outs with each other. We know they have been investigated.
So my question is to all of those who defended and supported them to the end, ‘WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?’ Why did you defend their character so long while they were running away with your money?
I’d love to hear a response from one of those who were die-hards believing that Troy and Kristi were honest and would make a come back.
lol. FAIL!
Still holding out for that processor…