World Consumer Alliance reboot due to scam reports
Just days after the Zeek Rewards collapse Blaine Williams and Paul Skulitz launched Wealth Creation Alliance.
Accepting investments of $2 and guaranteeing a ROI of $3.25 per investment made with the company (an effective 162% ROI), Wealth Creation Alliance managed to rack up an alleged 20,000 investors in just three short weeks.
Somewhat abruptly, a few days ago it was announced that Wealth Creation Alliance would be changing their name to ‘World Consumer Advocates’ due to “scam reports”.
Considering Wealth Creation Alliance’s blatantly obvious Ponzi-like business model, turns out there’s somewhat of an irony to the scam reports WCA are running away from.
The Wealth Creation Alliance call referenced in this article was recorded on Monday night (10th September) and features company CEO Blaine Williams. You can listen to the call in full at the conclusion of this article.
On the call, Blaine (photo right) explains the alleged reason behind the name change to World Consumer Alliance:
We started using Wealth Creation Alliance and we started getting text and email that there was a gentlemen on the internet named “Chuck Hughes”.
Now I don’t know Chuck, I’ve never had any relations, don’t know who he is. But he has been running financial planning seminars of some sort and has had a lot of scam reports on that.
And it kept coming back to us, kept coming back to us and we talked to our legal counsel and the decision was made with that guidance that, it’s in our best order right now to make the change before we move forward into the next three or four months, especially to our launch [24:07].
Having to change the name of your blatant Ponzi scheme because some guy used the same company name a few years ago to run some other scan? Priceless.
Williams then went on to introduce the new company name, “World Consumer Advocates”, which is notably different to the new name that appears on the WCA website, that being World Consumer Alliance.
I’m not particularly sure which new name WCA are going to settle on so for now I’ll go with the name on the website, ‘World Consumer Alliance’.
Getting back to William’s reasoning behind the name change, I too have no idea who Chuck Hughes is but note that the cited abundance of scam reports behind the name change to be somewhat ironic.
When WCA first launched, they did so guaranteeing a 162% on all $2 investments made with the company:
Shortly after I reviewed the opportunity and wrote it off as a blatant micro Ponzi scheme, the verbiage on the WCA website was changed, with all references to the 162% ROI, maximum allowed investment amount per member and 65% forced re-investment having been removed.
The business model however remained the same and was left untouched.
Today the World Consumer Alliance pay plan information reads as follows:
Our goal is to make the average business owner successful by giving them the tools and the knowledge to become successful.
Our company profits go into a Affiliate Global Profit Pool which will be shared with all the active affiliates who purchases advertising banners and text impressions!
They will automatically earn a percentage of these company profits depending on their participation level.
“Company profits” is still just money invested by members and “participation level” is naturally just “how much money affiliates invest”. Mechanically not much has changed other than the removal of specific figures revealing the nature of the 162% ROI World Consumer Alliance pay out.
Again despite this, Williams claimed upon launching WCA, that he ‘didn’t even know what a money game was‘ [10:08] and conveyed his confusion over why World Consumer Alliance was being ‘painted in the same brush with what is called a HYIP program’, claiming ‘that is the last thing on the planet that we (World Consumer Alliance) are‘.
He even goes so far as to claim that, despite World Consumer Alliance offering a guaranteed 162% ROI that
we (WCA) are not taking investments (and) we are not offering high rates of returns on money [10:26].
Sound familiar? It should, it’s the same linguistic pseudo-compliance acting COO Greg Caldwell was pushing over at Zeek Rewards, prior to the SEC shutting them down for being a Ponzi scheme.
Just like Zeek Rewards’ “Zeek Squad”, which appears now to have been nothing more than Robert Craddock, acting on behalf of Caldwell, running around the internet trying to erase critical information and analysis on Zeek Reards, World Consumer Alliance has something called “WCA Marshalls”.
We are going to be absolutely to the line when it comes to compliance, number one, and to also policing the internet.[19:30]
There is a lot of people who have migrated to WCA that come out of the money game mindset, and are posting lots of stuff up on websites that are claiming incomes, that are claiming money games, they’re using terms like “investment” and “return on investment” and are making absolutely incredulous statements about the gains.[20:08]
Every single one of those must be taken down within the next 24 hours.
We have deputized a group of, at this point, around 25, and that number will expand to one hundred, WCA Marshalls. And they are going to be going out, these are technically competent people, and they will be going out to the internet and they will be finding these postings and these videos that are being put up.
And if they’re up there and we find them, there will not be a lot of liberty in this. We are telling people now we will communicate by email “take em down, do not use our name, do not use our image and do not make claims.
It is against the law and we will not stand with you when it comes to backing that sort of thing [20:33].
How describing taking in $2 investments and paying out a 162% ROI paid out money invested by members as a HYIP is illegal is beyond my understanding, but I’m sure WCA’s Marshalls will get to the bottom of it.
In any case, they might want to start scrubbing WCA’s own testimonials page, where the following company-approved WCA member testimonials are currently viewable:
For those of us who followed the Zeek Rewards Ponzi scheme the similarities between Zeek and WCA leave little between the two opportunities, other than the MLM niches they operated in (penny auctions and advertising respectively).
This isn’t coincidental mind you, as Williams clearly states WCA was rolled out only after the SEC shut down Zeek Rewards:
We made a decision when the demise of this last company took place in August that we would go to work and bring something out [7:25].
Just like Zeek Rewards, World Consumer Alliance has plans to expand their current passive Ponzi offering to include a business directory where WCA affiliates will be able to give advertising spots away to businesses that they themselves have purchased.
Our product is advertising for the small business community in your local city around the country and around the world [13:05].
You’ll be able to make available, as complimentary advertising for them, to get them engaged in our system.
Much like companies give free products away as samples, we’ll be doing that. Just like the prior company (Zeek Rewards) gave away free bids to give to people out [13:28].
So you’ll buy those ads, in blocks or units, and you’ll be able to give them out. But you will also be able to resell them to those clients in the marketplace [13:46].
Money wise of course all that’s happening is affiliates are putting money into the system and then earning a ROI directly proportionate to how much money they themselves have invested in “advertising units or blocks”.
This didn’t work for Zeek Rewards (0.25% of the penny auction bids given away were actually used) and at the end of the day 98% of the money the company paid out as a daily ROI was simply newly invested affiliate money.
Currently 100% of the money WCA pay out is newly invested affiliate money, and if Zeek Rewards is anything to go by, if they ever do launch a business directory it will have little impact on the actual source of revenue being paid out.
Amazingly, despite the SEC shutting down Zeek Rewards for being a Ponzi scheme, Williams refers to Zeek’s business model as a “radical movement” and declares it to be
the most hyrbid interesting model that (he’s) seen in network marketing [6:10].
Williams simply brushes off the Ponzi business model Zeek Rewards was using as “deficiencies” and “challenges”, stating that
on August 17th that company (Zeek) took a, I don’t think it was a fatal blow but they took a pretty serious blow [6:35].
Not only that, but after declaring that ‘network marketing as a whole has failed people‘ [5:42], Williams even goes on to justify the Ponzi points business model Zeek Rewards used:
According to our compliance attorneys right now, we’ve been told that if you give the advertising to them and you pay for it, they qualify as a bonafide retail customer [13:59].
I have no idea who World Consumer Alliance’s compliance attorneys are, but if they’re suggesting that affiliates buying a product and giving it away is the same as the person to whom the product is being given away to purchasing it themselves as a retail customer, might I suggest that they themselves might be delusional.
Again similar to Zeek Rewards, other future plans for the WCA business are also mentioned, including
- an online shopping mall
- something about a “WCA university” offering training courses and education
- daily coupon deals
Currently only offering a shallow investment scheme hiding behind the facade of members purchasing advertising credits, quite clearly the intent here is to push the notion that much more is just around the corner.
That it very well might be but unfortunately for Blaine Williams and the rest of the World Consumer Alliance team that doesn’t negate the past three weeks and current state of the WCA compensation plan.
If I joined WCA today, all I’d be able to do is invest with the company in $2 lots, kick back and wait for them to pay my 162% ROI.
Where does that ROI come from? New investments made by newly recruited or existing affiliates.
Whatever WCA’s future plans might be, as long as that mechanically remains the core of the their compensation plan (dressing it up with a shopping mall, giving “sample” advertising away and everything else doesn’t actually change it), the company remains a Ponzi scheme as it existed the day Blaine Williams launched it.
As proven in the Zeek Rewards Ponzi scheme, hiring people to “police the internet” and forcing your members to not use certain (accurate) words to describe the opportunity ultimately means nothing, with your business model being all that’s relevant.
Here we have a business model that affiliates alone contribute into and thus receive a payout over time directly proportionate to how much money they themselves put in, and/or convinced other members to put in.
It didn’t work for Zeek Rewards and ultimately it’s not going to work for World Consumer Alliance either.
Ad Surf Daily model, revision 1.11
Read up on Ad Surf Daily, then decide if that’s an accurate description of WCA (whatever they change their name to).
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/scam-study-ad-surf-daily.html
He needs to sit behind bars for awhile and think about how many people he has hurt over the years.
Thank you for all of the updates and opinions. I have been looking at that company for about a week now and have seen the returns people are getting on their initial purchase/investment.
There is a conference call tonight that I am curious to see what they talk about on. Are there some specific questions I could ask Blaine in reference to people getting screwed over on money and how that can/will affect this new company?
Well there doesn’t appear to be any uncertainty with the business model, so other than WCA management insisting it’s not an investment Ponzi scheme when it clearly is I don’t think anything needs to be clarified further.
All the information is out there regarding WCA so people are wholly able to make an informed decision when conducting their due diligence.
I suppose you could try to clarify the “Wealth Consumer Advocates” vs. Wealth Consumer Alliance” name thing if you wanted.
Ask him how he rests at night knowing what he has done to people for so many years and if this is a practice he will carry on until his grave and how he plans on paying everyone back.
Wow, thanks! Is there ANY company that has a legit business model where advertising or selling advertisements online is there product/service, or is that concept not even legit in itself?
I missed the conference call last night so I cant update you on what was talked about but it is listed on there site in their “back office”. Thanks again fro being a resource.
Selling advertising via MLM isn’t the problem, it’s the offering of guaranteed (implied or otherwise) ROIs on alleged purchases, which in reality function as investments.
Inherently the problem is advertising on websites nobody is visiting except company members checking their daily earnings is worthless, and therefore has buckleys chance of attracting a genuine retail market to it.
Even members wouldn’t buy advertising if they were paid true percentage commissions on the sale of advertising so instead these guys offer a ROI to encourage money to flow into the scheme. Trouble with that is a >100% commission (ROI) ceases to make the purchases purchases, but rather investments.
Advertising as a product using a traditional compensation plan isn’t really viable in MLM. Non-valuable advertising space + MLM commission liabilities to affiliates don’t really go together.
Doesn’t stop people from trying again and again though…
I haven’t seen one yet, Ray. Nor have I seen a traditional affiliate program where you sell advertising for a company/website.
The “we sell advertising” gimmick has been used by numerous past and present ponzis like 12dailypro, ASD, YMMSS, JSS Tripler, etc.
As Oz mentioned above, the advertising product itself in these schemes is utterly useless to legitimate retail establishments.
The only people viewing the ads are biz opp seekers looking to make easy money, not retail shoppers looking to purchase goods and services.
If there wasnt a guarantee fixed ROI but rather a variable ROI with advertising purchases then it seems it could be possible?
How does a company like Banner brokers still operate as they seem to offer the same Ponzi like ROI (FYI I am not in BB). I could see these other programs that talk about traffic exchanges having the same issues.
I have been studying internet marketing for about 6 months and havent quite found what Im looking for. As always I appreciate any insight and this forum being available to discuss these companies.
Nope, because then you’d be looking at an implied guaranteed ROI (ie. members only investing on the proviso they’ll make a x% ROI, despite it not being officially guaranteed by the company).
This was one of the problems with Zeek Rewards, in that they had an implied ROI guarantee to pay out enough money that members could replenish point balances over 90 days with 100% re-investment.
As far as these advertising Ponzis go, the implied guarantee is >100% of the invested amount, regardless of whether or not a guarantee also exists on the time in which the ROI is to be paid out.
The same as any other Ponzi scheme, the cash outs haven’t exceeded the newly invested/re-invested money yet.
No. Advertising “purchases” is a thin margin / no-margin business and cannot support MLM comp plan.
Think about it. How big is Google? How many services do they offer? How about Yahoo! or Facebook? They have bazillion eyeballs already that they can display ad to.
Any one who needs their ad displayed is going to go to Google / Double-click / AdChoice or people like AdMob (owned by Google, for mobile devices) and such ad networks. Nobody is going to go to no-name “ad networks”, no matter how cheap they are.
No clients, no profit, nothing to be shared. Thus, only revenue is from those who “pay in”. Andy Bowdoin’s ASD did the SAME THING. Where does the profit come from? He never said.
These folks are essentially BORROWING the success of a real business genre to cover their Ponzi-ness. They *say* we are like “them”. Are they really?
@ Ray
I guess you could say that most ponzi “close” on their own without any help from the authorities. There are simply too many out there for the various authorities to get to.
The typical ponzi only runs a few weeks to a few months before it collapses.
Ponzis that last as long as Zeek, ASD, JSS, etc. and get that big are relatively rare in comparison to the sheer volume of smaller ponzis that come and go daily online.
As far as internet marketing goes, you need to learn to sift through the hype if you’re looking at MLM type opportunities.
You need to look at both the product/service being offered and the comp plan.
Technically speaking, Zeekler had a product that is hot right now with penny actions, so that made it seem legit.
But when you analyze the comp plan as Oz does, in addition to how you see it being marketed, things start to appear a bit off in the realistic expectations department. 🙂
If you see people being paid outrageous sums of money for doing almost nothing, you should know there is something wrong.
@Oz, @Chris, @ K. Chang
Thank you again for the incite. I definitely have been “introduced” to 100s of companies in such a short period of time that its laughable.
I was just about to get into zeek heavily after putting it off for like 10 months because it seemed “to good to be true” but it seemed legit and EVERYBODY I talked to from different sources was making money.
The robbing Peter to pay Paul concept makes sense, I was just unsure how viable banner/text ad space was in reference to internet marketing for a start up company.
Do you think you think the traffic exchange concept is similar? After the zeek thing it seems a lot of people are looking for or creating similar models but the validity of the actual product/service and customer acquisition seems to be where 95% fall of. I Appreciate it.
The JSS, now ProfitClicking ponzi is/was supposed to launch a traffic exchange. But the same problem exists with the guaranteed ROI.
If you are referring to the more traditional and established traffic exchanges where you are surfing for credits, the main problem with these is that everybody is doing the same thing.
Just as with safelists, the time spent versus the results achieved is rarely worth it.
Those that have the best success with TEs and safelists are people who create good capture pages that get visitors to enter their email info so you can start building a mailing list to market to.
Most TE surfers have multiple tabs open surfing multiple TEs at the same time, so if you’re lucky, you have a split second to get their attention before they click on to the next site.
Personally, I lean towards traditional affiliate marketing through ad networks like CJ, SAS, LinkShare, GAN, etc.
For whatever reason, I’ve kept my toe in the MLM waters, but the fact that there is so much damn hype rampant throughout the industry keeps me from doing much recruiting.
The best advice I can give is figure out what the hell you want to sell, find decent products to market, and start building sites targeted to those products/services.
Anything that can make you money online is going to be competitive, so you can’t expect overnight success and you have to understand that most people will never, ever make significant money.
Thank you! Good advice, but I’m a believer that averages only apply to the masses. lol 🙂
I will find my niche, Thanks!!!!
Well, whether you succeed or fail, your results simply contribute to the averages.
Just avoid crap companies like the one in this post that we’ve taken way off topic. Sorry Oz.
Unless you intend to belong to the criminal element of the masses. 😉
Sorry Oz, thanks Chris 🙂
My Zeek buddy just introduced me to his latest mlm/ponzi. WCAREV.com. I am shocked that the people who lost the most are still losing, losing money, losing friends, and most importanly, loosing thier abitlity to spell corrctly!
Damn shamefullfull if you ax me. Just sayin.
You guys have no clue what your talking about. I started with this company 4 weeks ago and have already made back all my money and alot more, and am getting paid multiple times a day.
And as for advertising ads on their site for other affiliates to see is basically target market for your other website links, because this is what we do, and the traffic is guaranteed.
So stop hating when people are starting to make money. If i shown any of you guys on this forum how much i made in 4 weeks you would all sign up, personally i think alot of you are allready on there right now making money.
When MLM Watchdog Rod Cook says it’s a scam, it’s a scam.
http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/MLM_Watch_list.html
Nobody lost any money with zeek (until the gov seized all the money) and so far nobody has lost any money with wca, so what is your problem?
@Alex
You getting money does not change the business model. A business model that takes investments from members and then pays out a fixed 162% ROI over time, paid out of new investments by other new and existing members.
Irrelevant and only confirms the scheme is only being funded by affiliates.
Again, irrelevant to the business model. Sigh, ‘look at all my money!’ Blind greed 101.
@Bob
Irrelevant to the business models, which were/are both member funded Ponzi schemes.
You seem to be swimming Robert Craddock koolaid – Zeek Rewards was on verge of collapse, as all Ponzi schemes eventually find themselves.
WCA is a much more simpler Ponzi scheme, but with it has the same fundamental sustainability flaws.
If you can’t see the problem there that’s fine, but it doesn’t change the facts as they stand. Claiming nobody lost money in a Ponzi scheme so it’s legit is amusingly naive.
‘Yeah I was trying to kill him but I missed. No harm no foul. I mean cmon… nobody died right so how can it be a crime? Highfive!’
Drug dealers and many other criminals make a lot of money as well. I have no interest in joining their businesses either. 😉
All you are doing is stealing from the losers at the end.
Same tired, old arguments ponzi after ponzi after ponzi.
This is another ponzi scheme I joined to make fast buck. I have yet to make $25 which they say is the minimum to withdraw. The site faq says minimum as $20.
I expect this site to run for the next 12 months as it is a new site.
I observed that every 3 hours or so .02 cents are paid for an investment of $2.
Well,
I have been watching WCA for a little over a week now, and even put some money there. There is one thing I disagree with, when you guys talk about a guaranteed ROI of 162%.
If it takes different time for one ad unit of $2.00 to be used up (it represents a certain number of clicks or displays), how can you talk about a fixed investment?
Time is critical variable here, and from what I have noticed, these ad units mature at different speed!
At internet ad companies like Google Adwords if you put the same ad and set a limit of 1000 clicks, and it will be displayed over various internet sites, the time to reach this number of 1000 displays or clicks will be different, and it depends on many variables like i.e. the amount of traffic at the destination internet site, the reach among the proper target group etc.
So, setting a ceiling of $3.25 like you said is nothing else than puting a price per click in these ad units at $0.0325 and it has nothing to do with a guaranteed ROI because the company (WCA) cannot guarantee the amount of time required for one ad unit to be used up.
Time is irrelevant because the only variable is the amount of new money coming in. The faster new investment money flows into the scheme the quicker members earn their ROI. It’s not a time guarantee but a ROI guarantee.
At the end of the day whether it takes 2 minutes, 2 hours or 2 years it’s still a fixed 162% guaranteed ROI, subject to the Ponzi scheme sustainability flaw.
Adword comparisons are irrelevant as the merchant has already paid for the campaign.
After carefull inspection of all mlm/pyramid models, with my limited intelligence, it seems to me they’re all destine to fail unless unlimited recruitment is the order of the day.
Attrition is inevitable owing to fact that most distributors and participants are operating on a false assumption, that they make money by participating. They PAY to play these little games. Sad, really. Later.
WCA is a SCAM! I invested some money, but after few days my acc show ‘zero’ balance. Wrote to support but no response after 48hrs.
Finally, I have to charge-back my Payza. Beware !
I looked up Ponzi scheme
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
They are calling some online businesses a Ponzi scheme because they are using money invested by person A to pay person B, and the money invested by person B to pay person C etc.
So far as I can tell every business I find on the net operate the same way.
In product based programs a member is told they have to meet certain requirements to be eligibile to reach different levels within the business. You have to buy their product-
(Ozedit: This comment was cut short because it was overly long and didn’t make much sense)
@Robert
I cut you off early because in your opening paragraphs you failed to acknowledge the primary difference between legit opportunities and Ponzi schemes, despite mentioning it. Thus the large paragraphs and commentary after these statements were irrelevant.
The key concept your missing is that Ponzi schemes are not product based (membership alone is not a product in MLM, regardless of what’s bundled with it). Also in product based MLMs members can sell the product, rather than purchase it themselves.
A product purchase or sale of a product is not the same as an investment, whereas in a Ponzi scheme money is plonked down with the expectation of a fixed ROI (guarantee implied or otherwise).
And before anyone craps on about advertising credits, these cannot be bought without participation in the compensation plan thus are not being bought and sold. WCA members are investing into the comp plan with the expectation of a fixed ROI, this ROI is paid out of new investors money thus making it a Ponzi scheme.
I resent the subjective, fragmented, judgemental statements presented in this article. One day, very soon, their will be regrets for having published these misconceptions…hide & watch!
I have NEVER profitted from purchases, the way I have with World Creation Alliance! Three weeks with WCA has changed the way I view my future! Criticize & condemn all you want…I’m headed to the bank!
The freshman class has arrived.
Will it help if I ask Oz to place a warning in the article?
“Unstable view of the future” was logically deducted from the statement “Three weeks with WCA has changed the way I view my future!”, while the medication suggestion was only a guess (it just came out as #1, based on a limited set of information available).
I agree Texasgal There were a lot of negative things said about Metaluca, Vemma, Skinny Body Care and many other businesses who are very successful today.
As I have said before if Zeek was a Ponzi scheme then every other penny auction site is a Ponzi scheme. In fact if you believe all you hear then every online business is a scam, fraud or a Ponzi scheme.
The people making money in a program are not posting negative posts about a program. Most complaints come from people who did not do what was required to be successful in whatever opportunity they joined.
Everone has heard the statemnent..”The ones who make all the money are the ones at the top!” I agree. That is why I get in at the top. People who do not take risks are the biggest losers in life.
They are the ones saying “I wish I had done that!” If they put as much energy into what they joined as they are putting about complaining and boo hooing I am sure they will have a much better life!
You haven’t “lost” any money because you haven’t taken it out, and Zeek doesn’t *have* enough money to pay everybody back. So all you have is a bunch of empty promises to pay you back (with money they don’t have).
Thus, your logic is bogus.
Bull****. here’s one exception for you: eBay charges transaction fees for their service. They don’t “pay” person C for person A bidding / buying things from person B.
Clearly, your Internet experience is limited to HYIPs, i.e. Internet Ponzi schemes.
Yet you have nothing to disprove everything presented here…
And EVERY scam that was investigated… Zeek, TVI Express, and others like the Ad Surf Daily ponzi, have supporters that said the exact same thing: “Just you see!”
Ah, the infamous “I get paid so it must be legit” fallacy.
Why don’t you go look up Ad Surf Daily ponzi before arguing from your personal ignorance?
The perp, Andy Bowdoin, have arrived in a Federal jail serving multi-year sentence.
The arrogate responses explain the ignorance of the article. I present my comments based on 25 years in the direct sales industry. I am humbly, proud to celebrate several million dollars, in monies earned, Mary Kay & John Maxwell, are just two that would call me friend.
Much more is going on, behind the scenes with World Consumer Alliance, than you could even fathom. Hide and watch!
Experience means nothing when you can’t prove your point with logic.
I know plenty of other people who claimed decades of experience in legal, MLM, and other areas have endorsed Ponzi schemes and such. Just take Gerald Nehra and Keith Laggos as prime examples: both have previously pointed at Ponzi schemes and said “that’s not a Ponzi”… more than once.
I also know of another guy who “reviewed” a pyramid scheme and said it’s a great opportunity. He also claimed decades in MLM, top level in several, written books…
Your experience means nothing unless you can explain WHY.
Thank you for making my point K. Chang eBay is charging people for the service they are providing. They do pay their employees from the profit they make from their service. They are telling you to give them money and they will give your money back plus a profit.
If I tell several people to give me $1000 each and I promise to give them back $1500 in a week. Then the next week I give each person $1500 because I was able to talk other people into giving me money so I could pay the first people in line and so on. That is a Ponzi a scheme.
In fact our Social Security system in the biggest Ponzi scheme going on today. If you cannot see that then you do not know what a Ponzi scheme is.
Chang you also remarked to Texasgirl:
Tell us who is this other guy and his books so we can become as educated as you. If I post something about an opportunity that is positive or negative it is because I joined, upgraded and I am posting from my from my experience with said opportunity. I do not post because I read this and that about a company.
Besides if you read their FAQ and their TOS will give you enough info to make a decision. I have had opportunities that really looked good, Then I changed my mind not to get involved after reading their TOS
You also made statement
Will you explain to us the WHY your experience means something. I do not understand that statement. Thank you for your time and input. Much appreicated.
Millions earned in direct sales, but you apparently had a bleak outlook of the future until some weeks old ponzi scheme came into your life.
LOL, something doesn’t fit. 😉
I don’t know anything about what you have said before, but Zeek was shut down appr. 6 weeks ago as a Ponzi scheme. Not because of the penny auctions, but because of the investments (“purchase sample bids”) and the Retail Profit Pool.
Zeek wasn’t a penny auction business. The penny auctions was only a disguise for a fraudulent investment scheme, where they mainly used money from new affiliates to pay the old ones (but everyone got some “payments” in virtual points).
Zeek was in the business of “Make people believe something is very profitable, and make them invest money and recruit other investors, while you give them false and real proofs they can believe in”. Short version = SCAM.
So people who received “proofs” > their own investments were scammed, they received money that can be exposed to clawbacks. People who received less than their own investments were also scammed. Some people were scammed to pay taxes on money they never had received.
“Biggest loosers” (in Zeek) were probably the delusional ones, the ones who strongly believed in some ideas that didn’t hold water. It was more about “being in contact with reality” than about risk taking. If it HAD BEEN about risk taking, then the risk takers would have come out as “winners” (but they didn’t).
@ M_Norway Say what you will, I got in Zeek about 6 weeks after it came on line and I made some serious money. Remember It uia the people at the topwho make the money. Also Ido not care what you read.
If you read the definition of a Ponzi scheme you will realize Zeek does not fit the profile of a Ponzi scheme.
(Ozedit: removed spam)
If that was about my response, it was only a standard response I use when people acts like “Drama Queens” (when they have an exaggerated focus on their own feelings, rather than the topic they are writing about).
The response wasn’t arrogant in itself, it was only a method to tell people about “That style won’t work very well here”. It will also indirectly test something, e.g. whether or not people are using the style as a strategy.
“Arrogant response” is about personal feelings, not about clarifying something in your own arguments. That style will probably work better in a “protected environment” than here.
But Zeek has already been shut down as a “fraudulent investment scheme” (Ponzi/pyramid hybrid). It will have to be finally decided in a court, but the status so far is “shut down as a Ponzi scheme”.
It’s a little bit early to focus on yourself as a “winner”, or to focus on the “early in” method as a recipe for success. The only method that seems to have been a success in Zeek was to avoid it completely, or to make money indirectly on it (e.g. offer third party services).
A “recipe for success” isn’t worth much if it has flaws, e.g. unexpected clawbacks, tax claims or criminal charges. Your plan seems to need some additional points to work, e.g. “keep myself and the money I make away from negative side effects”.
Your example makes no sense. eBay Employees are paid for their work FOR eBay, not for handing their money over to eBay.
Investors who buy eBay stock do indeed hand money over to eBay, but they are protected by FINRA, SEC, and other regulatory agencies.
Go look in the “About” section of this website. He tried to flash his experience when Oz called out one of the schemes he backed. First name is Marc, and that’s the last word on this subject, as it’s NOT related to WCA.
I never said anything about my experience.
I did not say eBay paid their employees for handling their money. I can see my comment makes no sense. DUH I meant to say People who are running a Ponzi scheme are telling you to give them money, not to buy a productand they will give your money back plus a profit.
Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Great, a founder’s club member! What exactly does that prove?
So by that logic, you should NEVER join such a scheme since you can never be “at the top” esp if someone is inviting you (clearly he’s on top of you!)
Oh, really, how so? But can you PLEASE take it to the Zeek topic? We’re supposed to discuss WCA here.
And you have “looked further” than all the POSITIVE stuff you’ve been reading? Apparently not.
Then you haven’t seen a “product-based Ponzi”.
Go look up “Pigeon King International” in Canada.
You said to Texasgirl Your experience means nothing unless you can explain WHY. Why would you make that statement to her when you do not know her. Then what did you mean by that statement.
I have experience as a cook. Why?? Because I was a cook for over 40 years.
Will someone tell me how they get a persons comment highlighted in green is a reply.
She was claiming that her experience in MLM made her an astute judge in income opportunities. I replied that experience is worthless unless you can explain WHY.
Put [blockquote] HTML tags around the section, or highlight a section of text and hit the QUOTE (which does the same thing, essentially)
Yep you are right. I did not know about that. People will try to get away with anything and everything.
There is a difference between a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid. Interesting. When I read about a pyramid it seems 99% of the opportunities on the net are pyramid, because you have to recruit and get others to buy what you are selling.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product-based+pyramid+schemes
http://www.amquix.info/product_pyramid.html
If you want to contribute to the discussion keep ontopic (World Consumer Alliance). If you want to criticise that’s fine too but publish specifically what you think is wrong.
“I’ve worked 957 years in MLM” does not validate your claims, establishing what they actually are does.
You don’t recruit retail customers.
If there are none, it’s usually a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, or possibly a hybrid combiniation of both. Like World Consumer Alliance.
You are right A persosn does not have to recruit anyone is all they want is the product. but you have to sponsor people who upgrade if you want to make money with the company.
I have not worked 957 years in MLM Oz ,but I am a member of WCA and I am in profit and have nothing to complain about.If you are not a member WCA (Which I am sure you are not) what gives you the right to claim you know what you are talking about.
(Ozedit: removed spam)
That “person” is called a retail customer, and they should be the cornerstone of any legitimate MLM business as they bring in non-affiliate money into the company.
World Consumer Alliance has none.
Irrelevant. All Ponzi schemes continue to pay out as long as new investments are made.
Because I had access to the business model. A business model defines whether or not something is a Ponzi scheme, not if you’re a member and not how long you’ve been in MLM.
The “I got paid” and “but you’re not a member, you just don’t understand us” fallacies of Ponzi scheme defenders is just that, fallacies.
Which is why when and if schemes such as WCA, AdSurf Daily and Zeek Rewards are prosecuted, the terms “pyramid scheme” “ponzi scheme” and “endless chain recruiting scheme” are used only descriptively while the charges themselves are more likely to include “fraud” “wire fraud” “money laundering” and “conspiracy”.
It is a deliberate distraction to introduce the old “is it a pyramid or a ponzi” argument into a discussion centered around what’s actually taking place within an “opportunity” and makes no material difference to the outcome WRT potential recruits looking for a legit. business.
The ONLY reason I referenced my experience in direct sales was due to “Hoss” stating, ” Welcome to the freshman class.”
(Ozedit: removed spam)
I believe Hoss was referring to the typical initial stage of Ponzi participants, in making the claim that because they’re getting paid the scheme they are participating in is legit.
Next comes ‘but the government is a ponzi scheme’, then ‘all businesses are pyramid schemes’, then ‘you just don’t get it’, then ‘you’re working for one of our competitors’ and then come the adhominem attacks.
It’s straight out of typical Ponzi defenses 101.
In that sense your claims to have been in direct sales for so long and participating in an obvious Ponzi scheme are an abysmally woeful reflection of your MLM career.
With WCA, I have a valid product to sell ( soon to be numerous products ), I invest time, effort and experience to sell, and for my investment of time, effort and experience, I receive compensation. e
How does that make WCA a ponzi?
Nothing can be bought from World Consumer Alliance members on a retail level. Members join the company and then make investments, with commissions paid out to existing members each time a member makes an investment.
Whether advertising credits are bundled with each investment is irrelevant. WCA don’t offer refunds on the purchase of unused credits, confirming that the money is an invesment and not the purchase of advertising credits as claimed.
Furthermore the money is invested with the expectation of a guaranteed ROI. Product purchases don’t pay out a ROI, investments do.
When the ROI is from new member investments, you’ve got yourself a Ponzi scheme.
And please don’t waste my time with “future plans”. That’s also from the Ponzi excuses 101 handbook.
We need to write the Ponzi Excuses 101 handbook. 🙂
Yeah… that and a comment FAQ (“how do I write in green boxes?”).
Someone needs to start a MLM company selling time already. I’d sign up in a flash.
I can’t believe it the (social security) S.S. ponzi lame excuse sails again. Don’t throw out the US goverment makes the shape of a pyramid, please that one is even lamer.
Robert & Texasgal please do your selves a favor and read through the other comments before just falling on the sword, zeek would be a great place to start. If either one of you are habitual HYIPers you need to arm yourselves much better.
Please read through some zeek comments and learn how the pro’s go up in flames. Robert if you truly were in zeek; comment in that topic I’d love to hear your point of view and challenge you to post up when the claw back comes.
But do you see the differences between MLM, pyramid scheme, and Ponzi scheme? NOT the dictionary definition.
In a pyramid scheme, you pay to join, then you get PAID by recruiting others (who also pay to join). Little if any actual goods were sold to non-members.
In a Ponzi scheme, you pay to join, then you get paid (from money paid by others who also paid to join) for doing almost nothing.
In a MLM (which is legal), you are paid for SELLING THINGS, and get paid for things SOLD by your downlines.
Ponzi schemes are often disguised by moving products instead of actual money, esp. “virtual” products, like “ad units” (such as Ad Surf Daily) and “bids” (such as ZeekRewards).
In case of WCA, it works virtually IDENTICAL to the old Ad Surf Daily ponzi. (ASD’s ad units are $1 each, 50K maximum, no mandatory reinvestment though highly encouraged to “roll over”)
Definately a ponzi, and now they are stealing members positions and cash, many are complaining of lost cash and positions…stay away from this one.
More fool you if you think its legit and earning profit share from ad views, new members pay old members
Hey Polar,
(Ozedit: removed spam)
Yes I was in Zeek and made some serious money. If I took the time go through my bank statements and other records I would be able to prove I was in Zeek and the serious money I made. I will not do that. I donot have to.
So all of you on here can go ahead and bash WCA all you want and I will take my Ponzi scheme money to the bank.
I am already in profit in WCA so your telling me and Texasgirl and others how stupid we are is letting me know most of you are losers and will remain losers. This will be my last post and the last time to this visit here.
Think punky be punky. hahahahahahaha
And that’s the bottom line.
Just like any other criminal, as long as you make money, who you hurt when the ponzi scams collapse is irrelevant.
BTW, nobody asked you for proof.
So you made money as an early bird in a ponzi scheme. Now that’s something to be proud of.
One day you can tell your grandchildren how you made your fortune stealing from the poor, naive, and desperate without getting your hands dirty.
Such a shining example of humanity, lol.
Thanks for your confession that you *know* it’s a fraud, and you are an accessory to fraud.
Gentleman…on both side of the isle, please understand that I believe it to be a scheme on whatever level you proclaim, but I truly believe that I can sell the ad units that WCA is offering to use in the context of promoting a business’s product. In your opinion would that considered a scheme?
Like others, I’m waiting for my buy-in to be posted. The $100 buy-in for these ads is not refundable because I’ve made a purchase not an investment. And for this purchase I’ve been given 1,000 banner and text ads with which to present my product (the ads) to business owners and how it will draw customers to their business and partake of food or buying clothes or even get hair cuts. Is this considered a scheme?
The software given as part of your buy-in and the training that they are boasting is yet to come because I’m not yet posted. This and more are part of the opportunity. Is this considered an scheme also?
While Blaine Williams and his comments are less than desirable and at the very least, this opportunity is a “rob Peter to pay Paul” there is some substance here and a smarter person than Mr. Williams could make this thing work.
This is why I was going to treat this as a legit business plan. MY ONLY CONCERN IS…how can get the business owner who will purchase his ad units to promote his business, that he will receive revenue from his BUY-IN? A true paradox!
Respectfully,
You can’t sell the ad units because they’re not purchaseable, they are bundled with each investment (can you buy credits without participating in the ROI investment scheme? No). There is no retail side to the business.
What kind of silly logic is this? Millions of people around the world get refunds on their purchases every day.
The reason you don’t get one in WCA is the second you make an investment they use your investment to pay off guaranteed ROIs owed to existing members.
Logically if you’d infact purchased advertising credits and didn’t use them, there’d be no issue in giving you a refund. Can’t do that though when you’re “robbing Peter to pay Paul”.
That’s because it’s not worth the effort, with the admin knowing full well bundled software and training doesn’t legitimise a Ponzi scheme anymore than bundled advertising credits does.
As with all Ponzi schemes, the more people that make new investments the quicker existing investors get paid.
Well, Robert, as a Zeek affiliate on the bottom of the rung who made nothing myself but find out that my INVESTMENT was going to morally corrupt people like you is disgusting.
How about you drop in to behindmlm in a year or however long it takes for clawbacks to hit you and the Founders Club scums and let us know how that worked out for you.
This whole thing has been such an eye opener for me to the sewer of MLM. I do know for sure that had I found the guys on behindmlm before I INVESTED my money, I wouldn’t have. Why? Because their analyses are factual and their credibility has been proved over and over apparently in due time when these crazy schemes fall apart.
What I have found amusing in this thread is the fact that the WCA Koolaid drinkers can’t stand the heat here. Why? Because their arguments don’t hold up.
Thank you to the “regulars” of this website who expose these scams! No telling how many people you are saving from problems associated with these criminal activities.
Amen, Chris!
OK back to WCA…..WCA have started scamming and thieving before they started, many people are complaing of lost cash and positions, support ignore all requests to investigate, they dont even address this on their conference calls.
I just listened to a call and I had to laugh at this statement “dont let nuthin stop you going forward” Ha, well stealing cash and positions is stopping people going forward, this scam needs to stop right now…
I wrote on scam.com yesterday and today I find I was banned from scam.com and the post had gone, Who has given these scammers the right to remove legit posts from scam.com… anyway if anyone is interested here is the latest BS conference call
https://www.freeconferencecallhd.com/playback.asp?n=-17-65-67106-17-65-671238880-17-65-67-17-65-67-17-65-67246596-17-65-67-17-65-6714;1NzAzOTY4OTA=1
You’re missing the point. *YOU* are buying the units. You’re not selling them. Thus, any “theoretical” scenario you choose to pose is… simply irrelevant.
Anybody can write anything on scam.com… unless you get too… rowdy. However, plenty of people make up **** on Scam.com, enough that you have to wade through load of crap to find the real info.
That’s why there’s a competitor out there called “realscam.com”.
I have not accumulated $25 to withdraw and test this site. But this site is playing hide and seek for the last four days.
I see earnings for $2 at the rate of somewhere between 0.04 cents to .10 cents per day.
They do lots of bla bla bla. Have to test the first withdrawal to know what this site really is.
well i am in WCA and i have to say it is starting to look like a scam. i have money in it and when and if the site comes back up i will not reinvest any more money.
Also Banners Broker i am in it and they have been going for 3 years if it was a scam they would have been shut down by now. There is big money in Banners Broker but it will take a couple of years to make it.
Not saying WCA is a scam but its starting to look like it.
WCA conference call last night was a joke.
it did not address the site being down issues just stated how big they are going to be.
Guys. A big thank you to you all. I only found this site a couple of hours ago, and it’s helped me to confirm what I was beginning to suspect.
I only recently got back into the NM & MLM arena in August. I got badly burned in the late eighties/early nineties (pre-internet), and swore I would never get sucked in again.
I have a heart and a soul, and I couldn’t sell family & friends or anyone, down the river, knowing that they would be working with ever decreasing circles (unlike certain other contributors posting on here!).
However, I thought I would take a look see, after all, surely things must have changed for the better. Not so. First off, I got involved with W4A, only for them to pull the rug on that one a couple of weeks ago.
They keep promising money back, but keep shifting the goal posts, waiting to re-start their new “Genesis” program. Obviously hoping the desperate, needy and gullible existing members will re-sign.
I did sign up with WCA (last week), and fortunately, I have not yet “invested” (purchased ad units) any money in that, and I’m not likely to either.
I had already decided I was going to swerve it, after listening to BS conference calls (not too dissimilar to recent W4A calls), proclaiming that they were going to be as big as Amazon and eBay LOL.
Come on!!! What do they take us for. Niaive I may have been for trying again, but stupid! Uh uh. I like to think my brain hasn’t caved in on me that much yet.
The main purpose of this post is to thank you folks for being here, and putting ordinary folk on the right track. Please keep up the good work. If it’s ok with you guys, May I put the link to your site on my blog. The more people have this sort of information the better. Once again, thank you.
And then they have egopay processor. Why on hell this processor is being used when egopay has looted many peoples money by blocking their account without any reason.
All ponzi schemes I think divide the loot with egopay.
@Paul
Thanks for the encouragement, and I have no problem with you linking to BehindMLM from your blog.
Latest update… I see a steady income being generated as of now on this site. Alexa traffic had a surge in September and is on a level now.
Age of a scheme is NOT an indicator whether it’s legal or not. Remember, Bernie Madoff ran his scheme for like 2 decades.
Are they “real” though? Did an accounting firm audit them? Is the results public? Or is it just some number on a website THEY control?
Alexa rating is NOT an indicator of legitimacy. It simply indicates site “popularity”, nothing more.
HeHe,
stick around the HYIP ponzi scene a little bit longer and you’ll realize the very best Alexa figures are generated just after payments slow down or stop.
THEN you’ll see an almost overnight quadrupling of visits to the website.
That’s something else you’ll soon learn.
Increased website traffic does NOT necessarily mean “increased revenue”
In fact, on the contrary.
When it comes to get-rich-quick schemes and HYIP ponzis, it quite probably means the complete opposite as members desperately seek information and/or reclaim their money.
W/d increased to 5-7 business days. Not looking good.
Well praise when its due, i got paid after 5 hours
They got the scipt for cheap bucks from yourfreeworld.com and can alter the earnings with the cron feature which explains why we are all earning less now with more positions
Ken ponzi pimp Russo is being paid by WCA to post ridiculous earnings of $1000 a day in the ponzi forums also, normal working day for him though
wtf-in this day of age with so many rules and regulations can a group of con artist so blantly start up these passive income schemes.
Why not make any internet base virtual business submit a bussiness plan to meet approval of not being a ponzi venture. how many people and how much funds have to accumulate until the sec decide to take action.
you have to admit people are making lucrative amounts of profit if timing these countless scams and call it being diversified instead of facing any real punishment or concequences.
I wonder how many of the apprx 80k wca members are zeek affiliates looking for a new home. Went from posting free ads through text,banner and what not. To making a 165 percent return on selling ad space. Simply retarded.
hey guys, i am with wca and this is just like zeek rewards, what i recomend to everybody is to put some money let it grow and everytime you get 25 bucks withdraw it.
this company is gonna be around for about a year and half to rwo years, by that time yoy guys would have made a lot of money, thta is what i am soinf because i losr over 2000k with zeek and i am defimetly making my money back with thia company.
Uh…
Looks like they shut down the pay to all affiliates and are going to re launch soon… We’ll see lol…
Who thinks they are going to pull off the magnificent seven and be successful? I have so many people telling me this in BIG. Ya a big PONZI…
They are making some foolish decisions as far as the withdrawal is concerned. They should agree for despatch of cheques through mails instead of the debit card.
That debit card instead of giving it free they are charging 30 dollars.
Looks like the “soft launch” phase is over, now they’re on to the “pre launch”. You gotta be kidding me!
Then it will be a “stealth launch”…
The new site looks very professional! They should learn how to use Microsoft Word… Can you find the mistake? OOPS! LOL…
Hmmm sound familiar?
Translation: the more you invest, the more you earn.
Giving stuff away to people doesn’t make them “retail customers”.
Buy stuff, give them away, earn money.
Sounds like ZeekRewards, doesn’t it?
Very well said!
how can this people get to jail,they are conmen
THEY HAVE TAKEN AROUND $100K FROM THE FEW PEOPLE I KNOW.
I’m in WCA and pretty disappointed to say the least. The earnings have stopped and they are encouraging members to participate in this Field of Dreams. $50-$100-$200 a month.
They just had a pow wow in Sarasota Florida, everyone excited and some fainted, for what?? You can’t make a living on a few pennies a day.
I tell you what, they are very good at hype and getting you excited, but I don’t see it with WCA. oh and the Official Launch is pushed to March 8th now.
-Disgusted member
Uh, people were fainting at their company gathering? Oh my…
And March 8th? After the Zeek bust up seems we’ve entered into a never-ending pre-launch era. So many companies have been in pre-launch now for such ridiculous amounts of time.
Fainting and crying at the Event listening to “Field of Dreams” must have been a hella of a seminar.
Maybe they’d just been informed of how much money they’d lost?
Please tell me the fainting was captured on videotape.
One almost hates to laugh, but this is funnier than when Phil Piccolo told the troops it was their moral obligation to pitch his mortgage-reduction scam, which was running concurrently with his offshore “resorts” scam, his cell-phone scam, his magnetic-shower scam (purportedly to prevent limb amputations while helping tomatoes grow to twice their ordinary size and dairy cows to produce more milk) and his license-plate recording scam (purportedly to help the AMBER Alert system).
Man, if old Phil finds out that fainting “works” in MLM, he’ll have shills passing out left and right the next time he pitches one of his scams in public.
I’m not sure what the world record for prelaunches is. The new HYIP model, though, is to sell unregistered securities to a Founder’s Group for a period of weeks or months — and then the Founders sell unregistered securities to the ordinary folks until the scheme collapses.
Old Phil once advertised a launch, which turned into a prelaunch on the advertised launch date. The prelaunch then turned into an actual launch. Several months after that, Phil asked the troops to imagine they were back in prelaunch.
PPBlog
Or how much money they’re NOT going to be making.
what pisses me off is thay promised the field of dreams cutoff would be the 12 of dec now they extended till the 18th. also we were supposed to get a check by xmas.
yep this is starting to look like a big ponzi sceem. they have never met a deadline yet.
Robert Hamilton Says:
Robert I am amazed that you publicly are announcing that you are a scammer! Shame on you. Then again thanks for confirming that all those dummies at the bottom make squat!
I looked up WCA today because a girlfriend of mine was telling me about this great “new” company, how no one in our area is involved and how much money there is to potentially make. All of that sent up red flags to me right away.
I have started and run several businesses and have learned over the years that NO legit biz comes easy! My friend who brought this up seems to get suckered into things once a year on average.
Thanks for putting the truth out there, hopefully she hasn’t put a lot of money into this nightmare yet!
Alot of members are pissed because they were expecting money for Christmas shopping from there commissions of the Field Of Dreams and everyone got alot less than they purchased.
WCA encourage people to come in at the $200.00 level, but those folks are angry to say the least. A Glitch in the system ? Time will only tell.
yep people paid between 50 and 200 with promises of big payout and got 10.00 for there troubles. this is a Hugh ponzi sceem.
and they want you to pay this every month. they said 10,000 people joined this so they stole over 1 million from the people.
where the hell is the goverment when shit like this is going on.
(Ozedit: government ranting removed)
Probably concentrating their efforts on the hundreds of thousands of the even bigger pseudo-MLM frauds out there on the ‘net.
The latest WCA update mentions a guy by the name of Dale Bohnet working on the training for the Banner/Text Ads.
At least they are consistent with the type of people they surround themselves with. It seems as if Mr. Bohnet was in some hot water in the State of Washington back in 2007.
dfi.wa.gov/sd/orders/S-07-006-07-SC01.pdf
They said that WCA has be compromised now so the site isn’t working. How the hell can a website be “compromised” ????
“Compromised” or “hacked” is Ponzi code for “the admin did a runner”.
WCA keeps announcing the “Bombshell” updates coming…I have seen the light and I know they are paying members with members money in the FOD.
I just want to thank Oz and the rest of the forum contributors for opening my eyes to these ponzi schemes. HYIPS included.
I don’t know why our government haven’t crack down on the HYIPs I get a new one in my email every 2-3 days.
In general, going after bigger fish. 🙂
Remember, HYIP is like cockroaches. Now you see them, now you don’t. 😀
Look what goes on in a WCA chatroom. One member “canyouseemenow” speaks out and wants the truth.
yes wca 1000% scam my investment is $400 but they not paid penny…………….big scam don’t invest in wca
They’re not kidding! Pity about their affiliates though.
Oh well.
zeek rewards paid like clockwork the jury is still out on wca
i wonder if this is the same thing as addwallet? does anyone know? thank you very much.
WCA is truly a scam. I invested $80 since August 2012 and have yet to gain up to $10.
I so regret signing up to WCA. People beware. He who wears the shoes already knows where it is pinching
I was wondering if its the same as HRS Hourly Rev share?
HRS is an HYIP i.e. internet Ponzi scheme. Give them money, do nothing, watch it “grow”, and hope you can take more out than you put it before they disappear with the money.
HRS started out strong like all of them. they were paying 2 a day when they started now you can only ask for money on tuesday.
it will take 9 dsays to 2 weeks to get paid now. they still look good. when i get paid i will be even money with them.
i have learned get your money out first no Mater how much it hurts i am tired of getting burned by these fly by night. HRS is getting big enought it is having trouble keeping up now.