THE FACTS: Dissecting the Zeek Ponzi apocalypse
Zeek Rewards was first reviewed here on BehindMLM way back in September 2011 and just two days after my initial review (in which I struggled to see the attraction of retail customers to the business), I wrote a followup exploring the passive investment nature of Zeek.
What has followed over the past eleven months can only be described as a communal firestorm of critical analysis and exploration of Zeek Rewards, its business model, money trail, compensation plan and commissions structure from every angle imaginable.
20 something articles later and thousands of comments exchanged between fellow analysers, blind cheerleaders, cautious profit seekers, harsh critics and a host of characters, today saw the conclusion of that analysis finally put to the test.
Often dismissed for “not having the facts”, today we look at just how accurate the discussion and analysis here at BehindMLM was in deconstructing and analysing the $600 million dollar Zeek Rewards Ponzi scheme.
Filed as a complaint in a North Carolina District Court, the following facts and figures are taken directly from an undercover SEC investigation into Zeek Rewards, Zeekler, Rex Venture Group (the parent company) and Paul Burks (CEO and owner of all three).
An investigation which yesterday, culminated in the shutting down of Rex Venture Group’s entire operations.
Funds Raised
Exactly how much money has been raised by Zeek Rewards has been a source of fierce debate, mostly due to the fact that under the belief that mostly affiliate money was being used to pay affiliates, how much of this money was raised would indicate the viability of the business.
In total, the SEC claim
Since approximately January 2011 through the present, the
Defendants have raised more than $600 million from approximately 1 million investors nationwide and overseas by making unregistered offers and sales of securities through the ZeekRewards website in the form of Premium Subscriptions
and VIP Bids.
Presumably so low was the revenue generated by Shopping Daisy, Zeekler retail bids and the FSC Store, that the SEC didn’t even bother to include their figures in their complaint.
The irrelevance of Rex Venture Group’s other properties in terms of revenue generation has been consistent. With a complete lack of retail customers evident, it was obvious that all of Zeek Rewards’ revenue was solely being generated by affiliates’ purchasing VIP bids.
The daily ROI “proprietary secret” percentage of affiliate money being paid out to affiliates
One of the strongest criticisms of analysis into whether or not Zeek Rewards was a Ponzi scheme has been the constant claims of “critics” ‘not having all the facts‘.
Despite mountains of evidence from affiliates, observations of the mechanics of Zeek Rewards payouts and tracking of commissions paid out to thousands of affiliates, claims that Zeek Rewards were paying out a daily ROI that consisted of mostly new affiliate money, were often dismissed.
Zeek Rewards was queried multiple times on this very issue and every time the response was always the same:
That information is proprietary.
Infamously, Zeek Rewards’ Official Training Consultant Troy Dooly even went so far as to stop then COO Dawn Wright-Olivares answering questions on this very topic, claiming that Zeek would be “out of compliance if they did so”.
More recently, when left to her own devices, Wright-Olivares made the claim that unless Zeek Rewards affiliates deposited more money into their e-wallet accounts, the company would be unable to pay commissions (“what goes in can come back out“).
Following this announcement in late June, Wright-Olivares seemingly disappeared off the face of the planet and was publicly never heard from again. She was replaced by Greg Caldwell as COO in July.
So just how much affiliate money was making its way into the company’s daily ROI payment to affiliates?
Approximately 98% of ZeekRewards’ total revenues, and correspondingly the purported share of “net profits” paid to current investors, are comprised of funds received from new investors.
Zeek Rewards was paying existing members Ponzi returns made up of 98% investments from new affiliates.
Zeekler’s penny auctions were a “cash cow”
Often compared to non-MLM penny auctions like Quibids, affiliates and supporters of Zeek Rewards often claimed Zeekler’s penny auctions could easily and continue to easily cover the daily ROI paid out to affiliates, based on their success.
This, according to the SEC, was not the case:
In 2010, Burks created Zeekler.com, a penny auction website offering items ranging from personal electronics to cash.
The penny auctions were not particularly successful until Burks launched ZeekRewards in January 2011.
After Zeek Rewards launched of course affiliates started investing in VIP bids to the tune of $10,000 a pop and well… $600 million dollars later here we are.
But hang on Oz, $600 million in bids? Surely that’s evidence of Zeekler’s success right?
Wrong.
Almost none of the VIP Bids given away by Qualified investors are actually used on the Zeekler penny auction website.
Of approximately 10 billion VIP Bids purchased by or awarded to investors, less than one-quarter of one percent have been actually used in auctions on the Zeekler penny auction website.
Yet a quarter of one percent of VIP bids actually being used in the auctions was more than enough to observe the ridiculous prices Zeekler’s penny auctions were closing at (often hundreds of dollars above the retail value of the item being auctioned).
So what happened to the rest of the bids? Well, with Zeekler requiring no customer email verification both affiliates and “Zeekler customer vendors” simply created thousands upon thousands of dummy accounts for affiliates to simply dump bids onto.
With 98% of the daily ROI coming from new affiliate investments in bids, what happened to the bids was ultimately irrelevant to the commissions structure of Zeek Rewards.
Or as the SEC put it, ‘the VIP Bids do little or nothing to actually promote the retail business‘.
Zeek Rewards affiliates are paid to advertise the company
One would think 98% of the daily ROI paid out to affiliates would clearly show that affiliates were indeed not being paid to advertise the company, however in forcing members to spam the internet once a day to qualify for their daily ROI payout, thus Zeek Rewards claimed it was so.
Given that this was on all company marketing and training materials, over the eleven months Zeek Rewards analysis has featured on BehindMLM, that meant that during this time we’ve had a steady stream of affiliates trying to justify Zeek Rewards’ daily ROI payouts on the claim that they are indeed “paid to advertise”.
The reality?
The requirements to become a Qualified Affiliate constitute an investment in a common enterprise and require little or no investor effort.
Earning daily dividends also requires that affiliates place one free internet advertisement daily for the company, but that exercise requires little or no effort.
Affiliates may merely copy and paste free ads – created by Defendants without input from affiliates – from a company-sponsored program, which the ZeekRewards website boasts should take no more than five minutes per day.
Affiliates also may employ a third-party program to generate ads automatically for them; affiliates must simply verify that they’ve placed the ad by submitting an internet link to ZeekRewards.
Placing more or better ads does not enhance an individual’s share of profits.
The size of the each Qualified Affiliate’s daily award is dependent
solely on how many Profit Points that investor has accumulated, and is not based on rendering any significant service to ZeekRewards.
“Qualifying” for your daily ROI had nothing to do with publishing ads and instead was simply tied into how much you’d invested.
Over the months I’d easily lost count of how many times I’d refuted the ‘we get paid to advertise” claims with the fact that the entire process could be automated and publishing replicated ads on crappy little free classified websites nobody visited did not generate business for Zeekler.
A fact that was largely dismissed by affiliates and supporters of the scheme.
Due to point expiration, the Zeek Rewards daily ROI was sustainable
Suspending basic mathematics, it was often argued that due to points expiring after 90 days in Zeek ROI scheme, that this somehow rendered payouts sustainable.
At the heart of the Zeek Rewards business model however was of course the guarantee that affiliates would be paid out a large enough return over 90 days, such that they’d be able to re-invest it and wind up with more points than they started with, irrespective of how many points retired on any given day.
With point balances increasing indefinitely, this meant that so too would the amount of money from Zeek to meet this implied guarantee. Failure to do so would result mass cash outs and withdrawals from the scheme which, once initiated, would be impossible to recover from (such is the nature of a Ponzi scheme).
without new investor deposits (in the form of VIP Bid purchases and subscription fees), revenues would dwindle substantially as less than 10% of daily revenues come from actual retail sales, and the scheme would likely collapse immediately.
So, what was Zeek Rewards’ bid liability when the SEC shut them down?
As a result of the compounding effect, Qualified Affiliates now have nearly 3 billion Profit Points outstanding. Based on the ZeekRewards current outstanding Profit Point balance, the company would be obligated to pay out approximately $45 million per day if all Qualified Affiliates elected to receive their daily award in cash.
$45 million a day huh? So how much money did Zeek Rewards have then?
Defendants currently hold approximately $225 million in investor funds in approximately 15 foreign and domestic financial institutions, and those funds are at risk of imminent dissipation and depletion.
A 5 day reserve. When you consider that
the company’s actual daily revenues in July 2012 averaged approximately $5 million per day.
and that
the company would quickly become insolvent if more Qualified Affiliates elected to take daily awards in cash from the Retail Profit Pool rather than converting their awards into ever increasing accumulated Profit Points,
it’s evident just how close to the bone Zeek Rewards were running their Ponzi scheme and why the authorities stepped in when they finally did.
Evidently the much touted launch of the Zeebates affiliate shopping portal on August 22nd wasn’t just to boost non-affiliate revenue in the daily ROI payments, it was a last-ditch attempt to inject some much needed funds into a Ponzi scheme that was teetering on the brink of collapse.
ZeekRewards’ current investor payouts are approaching, and may soon exceed, total incoming revenue. In July 2012, total revenue for ZeekRewards was approximately $162 million, while total investor cash pay-outs were approximately $160 million.
$45 million a day and rising out and just $5 million in? Ponzi sustainability mathematics at their finest. Or simply “proprietary information” as Paul Burks so loved to go around telling anyone who dared to ask.
Zeek Rewards pays out 50% of the company’s net profits each day
After Zeek Rewards launched it’s Ponzi scheme (or “the compounder” as it was known then), it wasnt long before people started to notice that regardless of auction volume or other events (such as holidays and website downtime), the daily ROI paid out always seemed to average out at about 1.5% a day.
After a series of blunders in the daily ROI paid out, which were quickly fixed in the proceedings days with a manual intervention to the ROI percentage paid out to affiliates, suspicions ran high that Zeek Rewards were just “making up” the daily ROI percentage paid out to affiliates.
As with everything else suspicious about the company that was analysed, this was also true:
Burks is solely responsible for determining the amount of “net profits” to share in the Retail Profit Pool.
Defendants represent that daily awards are calculated by dividing “up to 50%” of daily net profits by the number of Profit Points outstanding among all Qualified Affiliates.
This calculation results in a daily dividend paid to each
Qualified Affiliate that consistently has averaged approximately 1.5% per day.
In fact, the dividend bears no relation to the company’s net profits.
Instead, Burks unilaterally and arbitrarily determines the daily dividend rate so that it averages approximately 1.5% per day, giving investors the false impression that the business is profitable.
Zeek Rewards CEO Paul Burks was simply cooking the books. Not at all surprising when you consider the impossible regularity that Zeek Rewards continued to peg it’s supposedly variable daily ROI at, yet that didn’t stop countless people from arguing the system was legit.
Zeek Rewards don’t use future money to pay out affiliates daily
Although the numbers didn’t add up when analysed, that didn’t stop an article written by then COO Dawn Wright-Olivares appearing in Keith Laggos’ The Network Marketing Business Journal (Vol. 27 Issue 4 dated April 2012), claiming that
all Commissions are paid out of current sales revenues!
Zeek Retail Point Pool consists of nothing but its current daily net, without absolutely nothing obligated from future revenues.
Once again, the reality of what was going on painted an entirely different mathematical picture:
Although to date ZeekRewards has paid out nearly $375 million to Qualified Affiliates through the Retail Profit Pool and the Matrix, the company has only approximately $225 million in deposits, which is insufficient to satisfy future awards based on outstanding Profit Points and Matrix commissions and bonuses.
At the time Troy Dooly heralded the paid journal article as ‘the legal and compliance foundation needed to prove once and for all Zeek Rewards is not being run as a pyramid or ponzi scheme‘.
Meanwhile Keith Laggos, a paid Zeek Rewards consultant and owner of the Network Marketing Business Journal publication, at no time disclosed in the magazine or to readers that he himself was a Zeek Rewards affiliate.
Conclusion
Given the scope of over a million affiliates involved, the fact that critical analysis has been made ready available to prospective investors in Zeek Rewards since September 2011 (here at BehindMLM at least), the rabid cheerleading by pillars of the MLM community reassuring members that the program was solid and now the ultimate fallout and truth behind the Zeek Rewards Ponzi apocalypse having been revealed – it is only now that perhaps the true toll on the MLM industry can begin to be measured.
It was only last week that Zeek Rewards COO Greg Caldwell reassured affiliates and prospective investors that all of Zeek’s critics were “unprofessional” with ‘no standing in the professional community‘, doing nothing more than publishing ‘completely false information’ about the company.
Troy Dooly himself seemed to quite enjoying the denouncement of critical analysis because “critics don’t have all the facts”. Many a time Dooly would insist he didn’t believe Zeek Rewards was a Ponzi scheme because he’d “spoken to people” and had “access to information the critics didn’t”.
In retrospect now that the SEC have laid bare all the facts surrounding Zeek Rewards’ business operations and they all only serve to confirm Zeek Rewards was a Ponzi scheme, I’m not sure what “facts” Dooly was referring to.
For those that have been following the coverage and analysis of Zeek Rewards here at Behind MLM you’re well aware of who has said what in this long and drawn out journey.
At the end of the day as I have always maintained it doesn’t matter what lawyers you hire, what you tell your members they can or can’t say and who you hire to cheerlead for your company. Ultimately all that matters is the business model you use, how it works and what’s possible within it.
This is the core principle I use when conducting analysis of any MLM company that features on BehindMLM.
Looking forward, as I write this questions are already being raised asking “who’s next?” and “where to from here?”
Regardless of what is written about BehindMLM or myself as a result of the fallout of Zeek Rewards, I maintain that the purpose of this blog is to share information and analysis of companies that operate within the MLM industry. In doing so I hope to encourage open and transparent discussion which ultimately leads to greater accountability and with any luck overall success and legitimacy within the industry itself.
As for what’s next, having been awake now for more than 29 hours ensuring that those who need it have access to and are able to discuss and share the information as it’s come to hand, I’m going to retire and take a short nap.
And in the long-term, for as long as I possibly can I’ll strive to offer up the most comprehensive and detailed information on the MLM industry any single person is capable of (with as much help as I can get from readers along the way).
I’m not infallible and I will make mistakes from time to time, and thankfully that’s where you the readers come in. There are far too many to thank who have contributed information in one or another to our ongoing coverage of Zeek Rewards here on BehindMLM.
Thankyou for reading and here’s to many more years of unprecedented and truly unbiased MLM industry coverage, news, reviews and commentary.
To the MLM industry and those of us who refused to set aside our morals, ethics, common-sense, succumb to raw greed and suspend belief in the most basic of mathematical principles, I say cheers.
Never let them shout you down.
Bravo, Oz. Bravo!
Also, I should add:
– Thanks for BehindMLM being online the past 48 hours when other sites including Troy’s MLMHelpDesk were down. Oz has a ‘real’ web server.
Oz, thank you for your persistence in helping to expose the truth about this ZeekRewards scam from the beginning. As with some others, I joined reluctantly and at a low level due to prodding by loved ones who had “friends in it”.
Fortunately, I did not put much money in it and never really fell for the bait. When my upline sent me the infamous spreadsheets showing you could be a millionaire in a short time I started to realize the ponzi nature of the company.
When I first attempted to do “due diligence” on Zeek, the web was filled with Zeek ads and people running websites asking if Zeek was a scam but basically pro-Zeek recruiting sites dominated everything.
After some more digging, I finally happened upon this site, and after reading I quickly decided to end my involvement with Zeek and got what little money I had in it out safely. Also, thankfully I did not recruit anyone else into it so I could sleep soundly at night knowing I was not helping to promote a scam.
Oz, thank you for the good work you are doing here! I continued to follow the events on this site daily for months hoping this day would finally arrive when the Zeek monster would be put down and people can get back to honest work and investments.
I am not much of a fan of MLM, but you can be assured that should I ever need to investigate an MLM company, I will be checking here first rather than anywhere else, because I know I will find the truth and an honest discussion rather than the spin and lies out there on other “review sites”.
Really appreciate your diligence in seeking out the truth.
Great job, and this should go in a Wikipedia article somewhere for future generations!
Been following zeek on BMLM since March, the day after someone tried to recruit me. I dont know if I would have said no without this site. Thanks Oz! You kick ass!
Now the real question is, what the hell am I gonna read about now?
Great point Jimmy, this was the only website on the 1st 10+ Google pages that spoke the truth about Zeek. I came across this site when a friend asked me about Zeek a few months ago. You guys saved him 10k!! You rock!
So does anyone know how to try to get our initial money back?
I lost my job and so did my wife we took our only money and put it in Zeek, we made a little and I took that and immediately put it in for my Mother who is 70 years old and still working cause she has no money.
I was going to surprise her with a check this CHRISTMAS to help her out…Now that’s not gona happen
This really sucks, I’m in tears right now Zeek saved my home and us from starving, and was going to help my mom to not have to work at her age, I mean she struggles at 70 to live, now I don’t know what to do
Is there a process we have to do to try to get money from them that u say they are going to pay out
I am very, very thankful I found this site and took the time to read the valuable information & analysis posted here. You guys really saved my bacon.
Thanks Oz & all contributors.
Thank you! always followed the news of this site. in Brazil, many are crying.
kkkkkk
Nice work Oz! I feel like we just won the super bowl! I’d like to buy you a fosters someday!
It will take a while for you to get money back under your mother’s account, since she presumably is not in profit. How much you’ll get back depends on who else is owed, who submits claims, etc. and that can take 1-2 years.
For your profits, it is possible it will be clawed back. Meaning you’ll get a letter in 1-2 years that says you need to pay back ill-gotten gains.
This is why Ponzi’s leave a trail of destruction. It isn’t easy money and the whole “Zeek is changing people’s lives” mantra is all BS, unless you consider the 1-2 year worry from now on whether you’ll get money back, or whether you’ll get money clawed back, is “changing people’s lives”.
All the critics tried to warn others, including Troy Dooly. There are hundreds of comments on MLMHelpDesk and all the critics were right after all.
You will have to wait. If past case, like ASD is to go by, the Feds will announce a program where all victims can prove they were members of Zeek, and after the registration period is over, they’ll disburse what they got.
Don’t expect any points. You’d be lucky if you get back half of what you put in (i.e. initial bid purchase)
Thanks, Oz, for all your hard work, not just the past 29 hours, but in the past several months for shining the light of truth upon Zeek.
I remember back during the “affiliates have to put money into NXPay before we can pay affiliates with NXPay because it’s like McDonald’s and Burger King” problems Zeek was having that I theorized that they obviously must not have had enough cash on hand to fund their NXPay account.
Now, reading the SEC affidavit, it appears I was closer to the truth than I knew. They were operating on a shoestring budget like all Ponzis do very close to the end.
Man I hate hearing stories like this because this just shows how destructive ponzi schemes can be. People putting their life savings into Zeek, even reports of people mortgaging property or getting loans to throw money into the scheme.
A lot of people are going to be hurting for a while until they can get something back.
I don’t want to say “I told you so” at all, but the first red flag which made me skeptical of the whole Zeek investment scheme was the idea that you give them money to “buy bids” which are given away, and you get “points” in return.
So basically you give them money, and they give you something which you can pretend is money.
Great job on all of this Oz and everyone that participated in the conversations around the numerous articles.
You should even give kudos to the defenders who participated as they help keep it interesting.
Thank you Oz for all you have done here. Thanks to KCchang, Jimmy, e, and some others for bringing this whole stupidity and callousness into the limelight.
I am sure this helped bring an earlier end to Zeek and saved countless more that would otherwise be sucked into this cesspool. We need more of such websites that do critical thinking and provide an unbiased analysis of the business model, not just the cheerleaders and Troy Dooly types.
A simple suggestion, you may want to include other pure HYIPs in your analyses since many of them pretend to operate as MLMs and a lot of people would not be aware of the very nature of HYIP and consider it as an MLM.
Having said that, every MLM needs to be taken more critically until it is proven to have a legitimate, saleable product that consumers (you and I for that matter) would not mind spending money on.
A job well done.
Yes, I wonder how many of them are laughing all the way to the bank now. Oh I know, it’s <0.
@Jimmy
Do you know if a “clawback” was done in ASD. I personally hope that happens with Zeek. People who got in early should suffer too being today their touting how they didn’t lose anything and made money.
They still can’t see how it was their downline’s money that they made. Pretty much making them guilty of “receiving stolen property” which is a crime. You don’t have to be the actual person who stole something to be guilty of this, you just have to have it your possession.
So Troy Dooly actually knew this was going down last night.
From the SEC affidavit:
Does anyone know the names of the banks and where they’re located? Just curious about this bit of information that Zeek deemed proprietary. I know the “foreign financial institutions” would probably be in part the e-wallet providers.
People were flashing checks, displaying spreadsheets, and showing Troy Dooly youtube clips to sell this ponzi.
Troy is also responsible for the trail of destruction.
Hey Troy – mind sharing what the NDA was that you had with Paul Burks? I mean, it’s not like you’re protecting anything now.
I can’t believe that Troy is still defending Zeek as not a ponzi scheme.
Who’s to say there won’t be? Perhaps Burks is cooperating fully because he knows it will probably go easier for him if he does?
If Burks isn’t guilty of running a ponzi, then why did he agree to give up control of all Zeek’s assets and pay $4 million? If he were innocent wouldn’t he just demand his day in court?
How can Troy still sit there and say Zeek wasn’t a ponzi or there wasn’t any intent to defraud anyone when everything in the SEC’s affidavit was the exact same thing we’d been saying here for months?
I have $96 in my NxPay account that I want to withdraw to my bank account. Lo and behold, I log in to my NxPay account, go to the page where you request a withdrawal, and the “Withdraw To” function is no longer clickable.
How much Zeek Ponzi scheme money is NxPay running away with as well?
NxPay is complicit is this Ponzi scheme.
I would say all Zeek related accounts at all eWallet sites are frozen as well. Don’t be too quick to blame NxPay.
My own hub’s traffic has gone through the roof. It was getting 1000 hits a day before, it got 6000+ and it’s still going up.
People are out there PANICKING, but only a handful are leaving comments.
Took my friend over a month to lure me into ZeekRewards i was skeptical but the allure of look how much i made got me. I put $100 in and sent $300 more to nxpay.
In my due diligence i happened upon this site. An was sure you guys were hater’s but none the less it was always in the back of my mind, as to who was telling more of the truth Troy Dooley or BehindMlm. i thought you guys were more Con and Troy was more Pro.
In retrospect you guys were right on point on behalf of many people that may had lost much more then they did if it were not for BehindMlm I thank you.
Now to try and figure out how to get the $300 that I sent to NxPay and never forwarded to Zeek. I logged into Nxpay and tried to look for the option to send $ back to my bank but its not there, Not sure if its because the Feds have frozen the funds.
Technically I just transferred the money from my bank to Nxpay but never told them to load the money to Zeek. So my thinking is i shouldn’t have any problems getting it back. Is my logic flawed? Any one else in the same boat? and what did you do or how have you solved that.
I talked to a neighbor today who had invested 5000 4 months ago, he said he had talked to his upline and this was just temporary and it would be back shortly.
They do not believe ZR is actually gone. I cannot fathom this kind of delusion!
I actually had a few affiliates think I personally caused the SEC to shut down Zeek. I really could not believe what I was hearing and it was a little shocking. I wish I had that kind of power over my dog.
Of course Oz and the people on this blog played a large role and the many complaints filed with the SEC and NC AG. Thank you all again for your diligence and analysis, I really appreciate it.
Troy Dooly is an absolute delusional loon in my view, he is just as bad as any of the other Kool-Aid drinking ZeekBots.
He is to proud or to stupid to admit he was so very wrong and led many people to their ruin. He doesn’t understand why no criminal charges have been brought?? Were you born yesterday Doodly?
Wait the criminal charges will be forthcoming in the coming weeks or months I am sure.
Remember this video from Troy:
@Troy – maybe now you’ll listen to “the critics”.
+ There IS a law that says fraud is illegal.
+ There IS a law that says a Ponzi is illegal.
+ There IS a law that says credit card factoring is illegal.
WE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PENNY AUCTIONS … THE ISSUE IS THE PONZI, HELLO!!
Yes i could not believe it, i mean zeek will be really open the business as soon as possible.
why was it happened on today ? how can we get our money back if the situation go wrong? we were living at malaysia why have to choose today?
Is there not a solution for zeekrewards ?
if they find around USD 100-150 million to put them in a blocked account (for people who want to stop commission and take back their money instead of paying bids again). AND they change their compensation plan so that, the win money correspond a real income. It can be safe, and zeekrewards can continue.
The main thing is if the CEO wants to save Zeek… Perhaps i’m wrong ?
You dislike Oz that much ???
Spend a few minutes on the “usual suspect” HYIP forums and you’ll realize you’re condemning Oz to a lifetime of pushing excrement up hill.
Better he remains doing what he does best.
Everyone else seems to be talking about the fraud except for Troy. Troy has only reported on that there was a CID, that Zeek ‘voluntarily’ closed, that it is just a civil investigation by the NC AG and it is ‘exciting’ (because the NC AG would give Zeek a clean bill of health).
Everyone in the world including main stream press is covering Zeek’s Ponzi and fraud.
Troy promised to cover it. You’d think he’d be the first in line to tell the distributors what’s going on, since he does everything for the distributors.
Does anyone really believe Troy’s site isn’t working because of to much web traffic? I mean he’s had almost 48 hours to resolve the issue. Not buying it.
I can’t believe a huge MLM guru like Troy Dooley was not compensated BIG money from Zeek to cover up their Ponzi scam! I am no MLM expert, but everything about Zeek looked like a scam to me.
If he didnt see this from the get-go, then I must be the MLM genious and not him. Or possibly after his first concerns were cleared up by Zeek owner with $$$$$$, his tune sure changed quickly!
Hey Troy, you were once respected by many in the MLM industry. You mind as well close your doors just like Zeek because know one and I mean know one will ever listen to your meaningless BS again.
Shame on me for following your lead into this bottomless pit. I was so skeptical about this from the beginning and your were the one voice that put me all in for $10,000 .
We all trusted you and you turned on everyone in the industry. Your the one that has to wake up every morning and look in the mirror knowing that you were a huge part of this deception. It’s pretty sad buddy!!!
Troy has zero credibility when it comes to Zeek. I’d say that he was getting paid by Zeek to be a cheerleader, but now that Zeek is kaput I have no idea why he keeps defending it since it’s obvious he wouldn’t be getting paid now. It may just be personal pride, but I think it goes deeper than that.
I mean, for f–k’s sake, the entire world is reporting how the SEC shut down Zeek for being an illegal ponzi scheme, and Troy is still sitting there nitpicking every tiny detail trying to prove that it’s not a ponzi and putting every positive spin on this he possibly can.
I don’t see how Troy has any credibility left. He’s always been a Zeek cheerleader, and a year from now he’ll probably be among the people claiming that the government illegally shut it down like people are still doing with ASD today.
Troy has a mentorship/subscription service and private forum. It may be worth paying the $70 just to see what’s going on in the private forum.
Troy made money indirectly. How many Zeek affiliates out of the 1+ million plus any others that did research but didn’t join now follow Troy’s blog… or joined his mentorship program?
Even 1000 new members out of 1+ million candidates is good money. 10k new members and he’s doing great. The ‘compensation’ is often indirect for these cheer leading arrangements.
Endless Gratitude for your analysis, OZ, KSChang, and everyone else that kept on MAKING SENSE here.
I was as close as one could get to sending my $10K cashiers check in last Thurs. when I was signing up as a Diamond member w/ a recruiter and Zeek’s site kept responding w/ “ERROR”.
Later that nite I Googled Zeek to try again and just below Zeek … BehindMLM appeared, which also led to KSChang’s site. That was $10K I could not afford to lose … it would have been devastating in many ways.
I feel for those that did not do their due diligence and got stung by these deceptive criminals. I was very fortunate indeed to have stumbled onto these sites. Thank you … Thank you … Thank you, to everyone that had the intelligence and guts to reveal the truth about Zeek..
I thought Troy never had much credibility long ago when he said he didn’t think Zeek was a ponzi… when all the information was widely available here and on other sites.
When it was quite obvious that there was no way the revenue from the cheesy penny auction site could keep up with the points balances of affiliates. When it was quite obvious that Zeek followed ASD’s business model and many high-level Zeek players were old ASD members.
When Zeek’s business model was doomed to failure anyway because it relied on infinite growth.
Yeah seems odd Troy Dooley site is down along with zeeks at same time.
Well, He did seem like a spokesperson. He was so much about zeekler and zeek rewards I find it hard to believe he was not getting paid.
Nope, I’m not buying it at all here. How do you say hiding under his Help Desk.
He’s probably shooting some epic long 30 minute video and will continue his optimistic spinning.
He’ll probably avoid talking about the RPP which was central to the fraud and easily detected by us as an anomaly, but since it was a “proprietary secret” no one “had the facts,” therefore, it wasn’t anyone’s fault for not knowing it was a scam. Never mind all the other indicators.
Then he’ll talk about “acting like you’re in network marketing” and not realize that the vast, vast majority of people who joined Zeek never were in MLM before.
As several others, including myself (pat pat) have said, Zeek will do more damage to the MLM profession than anything we’ve seen in recent memory.
If Troy believes in his mission and that of the ANMP, he should sided WITH the critics, not against them. Remember that Troy and the ANMP were all prominent features at Zeek’s Vegas event as well as Troy at the Red Carpet Events.
Agreed Jimmy. I just want him to post an apology or make a statement to those who got screwed.
I bet there are people know Zeekrewards is a Ponzi Scheme, and still joined them because they know they are the first seeds. They started their recruiting, and hoping they can get as much as they can before the whole thing blow up.
My Question is, can we get them behind bars? If they were a members of other Ponzi Scheme like ASD. They are not the top branches, but somewhere close to it.
I mean, People shouldn’t be in a Ponzi scheme more than one! Especially MLM. After 2 record, it tells me something; that person need to get away from the society.
@David
Yeah.. I’m sure Dawn has 150 mil hidden under her cape somewhere. And change the compensation plan? Like anyone would have joined if they weren’t paying out 1.5% a day.
I have been following this blog for about six months. And i want to commend all who have contributed to bringing this life changing scam to an end.
To all the zeek affilliates who have made money at there downlines expense why not offer to give it back? Just a suggestion lol. Behindmlm job well done!
I readily admit Zeek was my virgin voyage into MLM Jimmy. I read what was posted here, listened to Troy, saw Troy turn totally Zeeked-out in June, but it wasn’t adding up.
I did some math, read some math here, and then realized Troy flunked math. Plus he’d ramble on about Alexa traffic (totally Zeeked), deflected you guys tough question on his site. Like was said, it was not that stupid penny auction but that RPP, those phony customers, etc.
I heard the bells ringing and got my cash back. But yet, Troy droned on & on about compliance, voluntary closure and total nonsense.
Once again Dooly is outright lying.
The SEC CANNOT prefer criminal charges, just as it CANNOT agree to an agreement preventing criminal charges.
The SEC action is a CIVIL action.
Any agreement Burks has IS WITH THE SEC and only includes what is contained within the civil agreement.
You’d think Dooly would have learned by now to keep his silly mouth shut.
The SEC action stopped Zeek in its’ tracks, just as it was intended, thus making sure none of the criminals can take of with the evidence or the money and no more victims are involved.
Please, do NOT, for one second believe the crap being spread by the likes of Dooly.
The SEC asked for “emergency relief” and they got it.
Now all the other agencies involved can take their time gathering evidence to make sure they nail the scamming bastards to the wall.
One thing I’m curious about. That pic of the SEC guy interviewing people in front of the 803 W. Center St. building… What kind of information could they possibly be looking for from them?
Dawn, here is how it works. A claw, like a crane machine, is going to find the accounts you have been stashing away money, and it’s going to “clawback” the money in your account, and drop it down into the government account slot.
I believe Dawn lied to attempt to cover up that “clawback” term usage in her blunder describing e-wallets. I remember when Dawn so quickly condemned the person who had used the word “investment” and threatened to yank her account if she had the name.
And her fake annoying laugh on the pow wow calls where she scolded affiliates like a school principal-the same people who were feeding the 98% into the payroll. I believe she contributed in the writing of the NMBJ article that she ordered thousands of copies of.
I did not like her the moment I watched the interview with Troy at the first Holiday Inn gathering, wrapped up in a snuggy, with rattling bangles and annoying body language, and the fake cackle. “Yea, yeah, burgers, yeah yeah” She looked more like gaudy new-money redneck than a corporate leader.
The first time I saw that photos on Troy’s website of the “red carpet” meeting of hayseeds sitting around with paper plates, an IT kid in shorts, scruff and tats like he was at the Applebee’s bar, and not one leader dressed in a tie or suit, Troy in a silly looking beret and yet another tacky swirly T-Shirt that looks like a UFC fighter, Santana and Ed Hardy all vomited on, nodding like a bobble head while tossing softball questions at Dawn in the baby blue blanket cape- I thought, “Oh Dear!”
If Burks withdrew 11 million, how much did she take? What actions were taken by her when the CID was issued on July 6? My gut tells me she is where the heart of deceit lies. Where is she right now? I’m guessing it’s not Arkansas.
Let’s be very clear here. You were never involved in MLM. You were involved in a fraud made to look like an MLM.
Forget all the nonsense you’re hearing about pyramids and ponzis, MLM and penny auctions. They’re all part of a deliberate campaign to confuse people. It was, is and always will be “FRAUD” pure and simple.
I would love to throw the term “investment” at Troy Dooly DoDo’s face like a rotten egg.
I found my way here after getting in zeek and not being satisfied with the answers I got from my up-line. I read seen and believed behindmlm until I talked more with my up-line and listened to troy, coupled with need to accomplish something in my life I never got out.
I did further research and found out that in network marketing or mlm according to the laws not all of the money has to come from the outside, in fact a small portion. With troy’s videos out there and the things he had said led me to believe that at least 40% was coming from outside.
I had asked my up line if zeek had enough cash to cash out all of our affiliate pt values and was told: If your asking if zeek can cash us out the answer is yes!
I wanted to believe in troy’s statements (like the other day on a video saying it was legit, and after I sent everyone I knew the link saying “zeek is legit by troy dooly and a cid by nc ag.) I wanted to accomplish something.
It felt like you guys didn’t realize all the income streams and Troy knew the inside numbers. It felt like zeek was a long overdue blessing and I was going to stay 100% invested until I reached an income of about 4k a week at the 80/20 rule.
I know mlm help desk had it at a high risk but I guess I finally got tired of reading the debate (nobody to actually debate it with) and finally got to where I could only see the good.
Thank you all so much for being here. It seemed like the only transparent company out there with all that has been written and at the same time being the most secretive by our company.
WTF, zeekhead cultists still posting crap on the NC AG Fbook page….heres a few within 2 hours…..
On and on and on….there is a huge post telling everyone they were shut down and other people posting they were shut down.
I swear Paul Burks and Dawn O should go to south america and mix up some kool aid…
lmfao
Thats hilarious
What makes you think he’s from the SEC ??
From Oz’ article above:
The Secret Service are involved.
I’d be confident betting the same President’s Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force which took down ASD is involved.
The FFETF includes representatives from the U.S. Attorney’s Office; Federal Bureau of Investigation; Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigation; U.S. Postal Inspection Service; local law enforcement agencies and state attorneys’ general.
IOW, this ain’t no common or garden variety slap-on-the-hand-and-don’t-do-it-again operation.
Something strange about dooly’s site if you click on zeeks breaking news it doesnt open but when you click on breaking news from other companies they open. Humm Mr dooly come out come out where ever you are. Its ok we all know except you that is.
Noted Littleroundman.
SEC guy don’t wear badges on their belt. That’s a Secret Service special agent.
what im about to say is a little off topic but you all do know that there is hundreds of mlm companies that have no real product work on monthly fees and distribute earnings of these fees.
This is not to say that this company is in the right but whats next are they gonna take all of them down or just becouse those companies are small its ok whats your guys thoughts on that?
Unlike Zeekheads who paint with a broad stroke, we analyze each business individually.
Thus, your “fears” about “are they gonna take all of them down” is completely unfounded.
MLM is thus far, legal, if you do it correctly. Whether it has chance of success is something else. This leads plenty of critics (us among them) to point out potential risk in each variation… and in my experience, vast majority of MLMs are DANGEROUS to novice participants who are simply NOT aware of the risks and thus easily… con’ed.
Zeek is a pyramid and Ponzi scheme, that had some MLM aspects… to people who are looking for a MLM. Remember the cliche: to a hammer, everything looked like a nail? If you are looking for MLM, you’ll FIND a MLM in Zeek. Confirmation bias.
I personally just want to thank you OZ you saved me a lot of money too late for some family members and I can honestly say you have long term supporter here where the conversation is always of interest.
Also K Chang and Jimmy you guys have been instrumental in digging the dirt on these scum bags and want thank you also. Here’s to more interesting conversation in the future!
By the way did Dawn ever get that special MLM award ROFL!
you missunderstand me its not a fear is your gonna take one down take them all down is where im coming from but i truly dont think that will ever happen
You’re comparing apples with oranges.
Zeek NEVER WAS an MLM and it never was a penny auction penny auction.
IT WAS ALL FAKE.
We never got in contact with Gary Bessoni over at Z Customers, and a clarification on their relationship with Zeek.
Bessoni is kind of like the forgotten character in a long caper movie. “Oh yeah, what ever happened to that guy!”
OZ, Chang, and whomever else worked behind the scenes to shed light on Zeek, thank you very much.
One issue that all humans have it the ability to become quickly blinded by the possibility of achieving monetary success that far exceeds our daily potential, and that is acquired by minimal work or education. Been there, done that myself a time or two.
When you discuss issues like this, especially with individuals who have little funds and/or little prospects of “striking it rich” their, shall we say fantasy clouds their clear thinking.
The company, you pick one, that promises them immense profits, and the company that has pep rallies and other motivational stuff usually is able to trump common sense.
Considering politics in the US today, regardless of your affiliation. The speakers get fired up and try to tweak your emotions so that you get out your checkbook and otherwise promote candidate such and such. Oh, and we all know many retirement schemes are also, technically Ponzi schemes.
Anyway, I would like to give the Kudos to both of you for your objective, non emotional analysis of Zeek and other questionable MLM companies.
Thank you very much!
Thank you for all facts and truth about this failure company. I wish I could have found your website before getting into this business. I had too much believe in my best friend that’s how I, my family, friends got into it.
Since I reside in Asian country not in the States. I’d really appreciate any advice on the process of how and what to do to get our money back.
Where can we get the application form? to file a petition at the attorney office or else? to request for our initial investment back. Or we just have to wait until Sec or Feds can track our address from this stupid Zeek database and refund our money back.
Thank you very much for informative answer, from one group of victims from the far east.
I truly will always come to this site from now on when I am researching a business model. Thanks so much to Oz, KsChang, Jimmy, E!!! I will never believe Troy ever again.
I am so glad I started cashing out in May and got my investment back. I will forever be thankful. Now do you have an article on Vitel?
I was introduced to the whole Zeek thing not that long ago, and when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
Listen folks – you cant make money like that from free air or real products being made and sold. Winners in these businesses come from the poor people further down the food chain…its no more than a transfer of wealth!
It didn’t take much effort to do a bit of due diligence and realise there were more than a few questions hanging over the whole Zeek operation. Full marks to Oz and others on this forum for his many valuable insights.
I was not interested in joining and wrote the following email as an ‘outsider’ to a relative who was involved…
COPY OF EMAIL (3 weeks ago):
Hello guys, thanks to all the free thinkers here who went against the herd and gave me the tools I needed to make an informed decision and request my $3,500.00 back a few months ago. Many of you may have seen my Ripoff Report, “Zeek took my $3,500.00” that I posted a few months ago.
Here is my story from 4 months ago or so, my neighbor here in Orlando FL came to me and told me about this really cool thing he was doing, but he wouldn’t give me any details at the time, a month later he brings it up again and decides to tell me about it, it was Zeek Rewards.
He told me how he was approached buy a guy who took him to another guys house, at the house he was shown checks and this guys account with Zeek. The guy was making 15K per week and was pulling out tens of thousands of dollars.
My neighbor who is very skeptical decided to put in $1000.00 which was up to nearly 1600 points by the time he told me about this story. I immediately sent in $3,500.00 and waited.
To make a long story short I was very unhappy with the customer service response and couldn’t get any answers as to why my money was taking so long to post to my account, it was a red flag to me that the service was so poor so I pulled all of the stops to get my money back.
I made the Ripoff Report and then contacted a local detective who took interest in my story and drove down to meet Paul Burks within 1 hour of me calling him for help. Paul then personally called me up to offer me a full refund plus $500.00 for my troubles.
I gotta admit I wanted to tell Paul to keep the money and just open my account but I didn’t. He was very convincing that I was going to watch my neighbor do very well in this program, I just told him a story about how about 10 years ago a friend of mine who I was in the USAF with had this investment deal with similar returns, that deal was called Learn Waterhouse and the owner Randy Treadwell was currently serving 30 years in federal prison.
When I told him this I did detect his demeanor changed, the vibe on the phone clearly changed. In the end I got my money back and I made $500.00 so I am happy.
My neighbor came over about 2 weeks ago and was clearly happy that his account was up to 7500 points, I told him I hope you get to cash out, and he just replied everyone he knew was getting checks with no problem, all of the banking issues were fixed and things are back on track.
I know he got some friends involved from up north so hopefully they didn’t get taken for too much. Whenever I spoke to my friend about Zeek it was a sore subject because I told him it was a Ponzi scheme from the beginning and he thought I was going to sit back, hope it failed so I can tell him “I told you so”, those were his exact words to me.
So I avoided the subject when I was around him. I think he is upset today as he didn’t answer my call or message sent to him on Facebook. Oh well. Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!
Well done Adam, happy for you!
I too (in Melbourne Australia) was approached by a friend like this; “OH Gabby you must come see me you will thank me all your life you will never work again” What is it I said, But he wouldnt tell me, he just said I must visit and come to a meeting with the promoter.
I never did visit and a few days later he told me what it is, ZEEK. He had put 10k in. Ok, so thats when I started doing research. First thoughts are it’s a pyramid then starting looking about ponzi’s, Then I saw PP’s blog, then here, then real scam etc etc.
I never put a dollar in but I did spread the word to many on a different forum about zeek being a ponzi. I Learnt alot from you all and really cracked the nut on this website with Oz, MNorway etc, we all concluded it was a ponzi structure.
I hve to thankyou guys for your discussions it has been fruitful and enjoyable and at some time frustrating. There will be big losses from this, many will lose their initial as those who cashed out already with extra and done well will have cashed out with other people’s initial investment, unless it is clawed back, in either way it is going to be painful for many.
Keep up the good work Ive added you to my favourites.
Interestingly, about 2 weeks ago I received an email welcoming me to Zeek rewards and giving me free points, followed shortly afterwards by another email congratulating me on my first customer.
I’ve never had anything at all to do with them.
A last desperate (fraudulaent) attempt to avoid the inevitable?
BTW…Troy Dooley…he’s a good salesman. So sure of himself and the business in front of the American flag.
Maybe more than a little vested interest there I assume. If Zeek collapses completely (which seems the most likely outcome), anyhing he says in future will have zero credibility.
Maybe the flag flies inside US prisons too?
I’m believing Troy may have been severely duped by Dawn. Troy made various statements that he was convinced of the sustainability with access to inside proprietary information. If Troy’s endorsement was genuine, then the data he saw had to be cooked.
I am still intrigued by the July 6 CID. (This is the same day Paul wrote the “all is good in ZeekLand letter”). Troy HAD to know about it. Is he going to say the non-disclosure prevented him from disclosing the CID was underway.
If the CID was “exciting” and a healthy procedure for Zeek as he spun, then why would he sympathize with Zeek withholding this information from the public? Panic prevention?
Troy supposedly did not know the RPP was on the fringe of collapse, so what was he thinking when the company did not disclose the CID? He could not have reasonably thought the new qualifiers and ZeeBates would beef up a 98% affiliate fed payroll.
And why did the AG office leak the information via FaceBook? Was this a mistake or by design because they knew at this point the SEC was coming? Once the public knew about the CID, Troy suggested he “predicted” this would happen.
The Aces show was the first time I began to question Dooly’s motives and what he may have known: When he interrupted to prevent Dawn answering the retail customer question, and when he was asked if he was compensated by Zeek, he dodged the question by proclaiming, “As an affiliate ?” which of course was not the question.
However, it is not logical that Troy knew how close the RPP was to collapsing, and he would continue to cheerlead. Troy was commenting that the worse case scenario of the CID was that the RPP would be dropped, but that he did not think it would be dropped.
Again, he had to be duped. And yet he defended Paul’s character after the SEC announcement. In the later stages of the game, I do not recall Troy making positive statements about Dawn.
She mostly dissappeared into the background afte the e-wallet blunder, and Douglas had “personal” issues in late July. I’m thinking…duped by the blanket cape family. And Paul was a tool.
Make no mistake.
It already has.
I’m surprised that some on here still think Troy is somewhat of an independent 3rd party. I remember Troys 1st video’s on Zeek and they were not at all in support of the Zeek business model, then something happened and he became a Zeek cheerleader.
I feel 99.9% sure he got paid to shut up and cheerlead. I would bet my house on it. I mean the guy was censoring a Q+A for the COO of Zeek. What company COO would allow a critic to sit right next to you in a interview and allow that critic to censor questions?
The guy was hired help, I’m sure he is going to be involved in the criminal charges coming forward against the Zeek clan.
This takes time, I think it took 2-3 years to lock up Randy Treadwell of Learn Waterhouse. They are all going to the federal prisons, and with the fed’s you do nearly all of your time, no early release there!
The Zeek Rewards ponzi was 6x BIGGER than the Ad Surf Daily scam. Watching some of Troy’s old videos and blog comments really makes you wonder.
Agree 100% Adam, he’ll end up doing time, the guys 100% full of horse %^it. Wouldn’t trust Troy Dooly with a barge pole. He was playing poker with double sided cards and got burnt big time by a royal flush on the river.
Games up Troy and you’re through, done, nothing! All the more reaaon for everyone to avoid his son’s MLM Vital like the plague. Con artists and very pathetic at that.
@Adam
I do not believe Troy changed his tone on Zeek simply because he was paid “to shut up.” To cheerlead, yes. But paid off to shut up is not logical to me.
His career has shown principle. Was he hypnotized, mislead, duped, naive-maybe. But a conspirator just is not logical when you lay out all the facts.
Troy turned when Zeek hired a compliance team and built a course.
I believe Dooly knew the RPP was very weak, and I believed he really thought it was going to be beefed up with the new qualifiers and ZeeBates. I believe he was naively sold on Paul and “the horse manure crisis of 1894” analogy they were going to transition into something more sustainable.
His statements are not logical if he knew anywhere how drastically absurd the RPP was. It all compounded so drastically fast towards the end. Even if it was instituted, it is obvious now that the ZeeBates would not have saved the RPP.
I still contend he was duped on some level.
may I just end your sentence with “up until he met with zeek and began promoting a fraud publically”.
Madoff had a distingquished career also before he started a fraud. Greed is more powerfull than past behaviour. I say rot in jail Dooly.
I wish I could say that I was one who read your analysis and believed you, but I can’t.
I read everything I could get my hands on, and while a bunch of things did not add up, I was seduced by the returns and by the fact that my father-in-law (and sponsor) had gone from $10k to $60k in about 3.5 months. Greed numbed my logic.
One point I’d like to make is that the SEC’s complaint points out that Zeek did not conduct due diligence on its investors, to ensure that they had the means and the experience to invest in such a speculative venture.
Of course not, since Zeek was ever so careful to insist that this was NOT an investment; they obviously struggled with what kind of thing it was, and insisted on the term “income opportunity”. But the very sad outomce is that there are obviously thousands of investors like the commenters above who were out of work, etc, and REALLY needed the money.
Very, very sad… there is alot of personal damage going around. This isn’t Bernie Madoff stuff, where investers had a few million to spare.
I don’t know MB. You don’t have to much more than 5th grade math to figure the model was unsustainable over time. He had to of known, I think he used his reputation to gain employment and compensation.
We’ll find out soon enough if he was on the take.
He was definitely compensated. He has admitted this a long time ago. We just do not know how much beyond paying for travel, and accommodations.
I would speculate he was paid well, but not paid off.
First I would like to thank Oz K chang Jimmy and every one that aided in this sites research. I found this site and decided not to join.
My question is what will happen to the top affiliates especially the ones that were at ADs that came to Zeek and are probally at the next questionable business model scheme.?
PAUL Dawn and Troy are the public images. What about the quiet ones that got rich and might of known more and has moved on?
The big question for me is- what has happened thus far is civil. Can other gov’t agencies still file criminal charges in the future against Paul, Dawn, etc for fueling the Ponzi and people like Troy for promoting it?
I am not an MLM comp plan expert at all but after over a decade in the industry, it was pretty easy for me to figure out that Zeek sure looked like a Ponzi pretending to be an MLM. There was no way this thing was going to be sustainable. Troy had to know that- he’s not that stupid.
And the IRS will be carefully scrutinizing tax returns!
I keep hearing about the ‘clawbacks’- how likely is that to happen? Frankly I hope it does. There are a lot of people I know who told me they knew Zeek was a big risk- that it would probably collapse within 2 years- but they were going to make as much money as they could.
They didn’t care about all the people who would get hurt when the Ponzi collapsed. SAD!!!
He “promoted a fraud” is based on the fact he knew it was a fraud. I have been a huge skeptic on this site since April. I have been a skeptic of Troy.
My skepticism was dismissed by people on his own site, even with ad hominem attacks. But logic presents a more complex path other than he was simply paid off to promote a fraud.
One thng that really bugged me was cleared up by your article above. I threw in $2k, and began watching the company very carefully, to determine whether I should go all in.
I was actually considered setting personal and Llc accounts for both my wife and myself, which would have meant a 40k investment. But as soon as I started listening to Dawn what-ever’s calls, it was clear that something was very wrong.
I mean, she was an idiot. She was clearly not even close to being qualified to serve as Ops Exec for a global company like this. I actually could not make it more than 5 or 10 minutes into her conferences; I’d just hang up.
As well, the massive number of iCustomer Service issues, the shoddy programming, etc etc all signalled that the company was run by goofballs. My observation was that chimpanzees could do a better job.
I capped off at $2k, I’m releived to say, as did my downline. But I couldn’t understand WHY someone like DW-O was in that exec position: your article led me to this hypothesis: I don’t think Burks-the-Scammer could afford to have anyone really smart in there. He could keep her on a leash.
Maybe she really was too dumb or dazzled to really get it.
You’re hinting he didn’t know it was a fraud? I disagree, he knew exactly what it was and because of his knowledge of MLM , profile, blah blah blah, he put himself at risk of negligent contact should the thing explode as it has.
Can’t have your cake without putting on a few kilos and Troy swallowed a big one when zeek had a quiet word with him, now he has to suffer the consequences of that.
Adam and MB: let’s just call it. Dooly was a schill. In some way, he was being paid to be so rah-rah about Zeek.
I just sent this to Oz, but it wouldn’t go through. This question goes to anyone else out there who I have read on here has made legitimate money on the internet.:
I’m not hinting. I believe he was shown cooked numbers. Don’t get me wrong, I’m offended and angry. He was a cheerleader when even skeptics with far less experience and knowledge were shouting on rooftops.
Compensation would be a logical reason, of course, to dismiss skeptics. I just do not rationally accept he was simply paid off and was a conspirator, that he knew everything, and knowingly encouraged victims to the cleaners.
I am sure there will be a massive class action law suit against Zeek. Troy Dooley has lost credibility as an impartial reviewer of MLM companies.
He is a clown who may have also committed fraud. He should also be included in a class law suit.
Concerning Mr. Dooley, I have personally never been but am almost positive the Kool-Aid does not taste nearly as good in prison. Anyone with a college education should have known this was a ponsi.
Furthermore, anyone that watched one of Troy’s videos knew he was and is completely full of shit. The best compliance attorneys in the world can not make up for the fact that Zeek’s business model was completely unsustainable.
When the well ran dry what was going to pay the more than one million affiliates? I can assure you that it was not going to be Mr. Dooley’s positive thoughts and fairy tale assertions.
People that benefited hugely from this Ponsi (and there and plenty) will continue, as they did last night on a conference call (will refer to you as Leith Kacey), to blame the downfall of Zeek on over zealous regulatory committees instead of a ridiculous business model, and for those I hope the claw of justice scraps every profitable penny from your bank account.
I usually do not find it necessary to say I told you so, but …
Anybody want to start a business with me? We’ll help people get their money back from Zeek. We’ll offer people differed levels of help in the form of subscription packages (i.e. silver, gold, diamond, etc) and the higher fee they pay the more help they will get.
Of course they’ll have to pay for our “Zeek Refund Compliance Course” as well. We’ll advertise our services by placing just 1 Internet add a day that will take less than five minutes. Regardless of how many people join our business, we’ll split all the profits 50/50 or 50/50/50/50/50/50. Any takers?
If I hear the phrase “my heart goes out to all those zeek members” I think I’ll puke.
My heart doesn’t go out to any of them. They were stupid enough to believe you can place one ad a day and get rich. Pure stupidity and greed.
Playing dumb won’t get them off the hook! Everyone is so sad that their friends lost their opportunity! What about the people who just invested in the last 90 days!?
Question? If you bought and paid for a ticket to the Red Carpet event being held on the 22nd have you tried to get a refund? I paid for 3 tickets via Paypal,went there yesterday and the email that was given to me was savagetraders@hotmail.com. That email is no good…Anyone know anything more about this..
So this is it? After writing to OZ back in September last year asking him to review zeek I’ve been besotted with this site, zeek and all the drama. What will I do now?
Anyway, here’s a story I was going to tell you sooner, only I thought they might shut me down before I’d finished and well…they kept paying me.
After I’d got all my initial money back from zeek in April, I decided to start testing what I could get away with. I began just posting the same ad link (actually I never placed a new ad after about February) every day, then making up Facebook pages and eventually sending random links, including to this site.
Yes, I put a link to some of the less favorable stories re zeek you’d written, OZ.
I also signed up a lot of fake customers using the email addresses and names of scammers i’d accumulated – such as those who write to you saying you’ve won the lottery etc. I wonder if any of them ever used the free bids?
I was one of the dummies that fell for this scheme. I hope that Paul Burke doesn’t walk away with a slap on the wrist fine and millions of dollars in hidden accounts.
Further Dawn should be prosecuted, she worked for Burke for twelve years and had to know this was a ponzi. Dooley should be investigated too, he was the deciding factor in my bad decision to invest more money.
Not a surprise Colsta.
Paul Burks did nothing but lie to people about how Zeek actually worked.
@john
In addition to this nice discription I must ad the self-discription from Troy on Facebook:
In Germany we have an old saying (trying to translate): !If someone have visions he should consult a doctor!!
That means he is even more responsible for not bringing the truth. If he was not allowed to talk, then why he is still defending, cheer leading and all?
Going by the communication he has been having even after the SEC seizure of Zeek, he still seems defending and pretending Zeek, Paul and co. He is still saying it doesn’t look like a ponzi to him as if wanting to recruit some more into it.
Paul Burks, Paul Burks whatcha gona
Whatcha gonna do when the SEC, NC AG & Secret Service Come for you tell me whatcha gonna do.
Dawn Olivares Dawn Olivares,
Watcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
Zeekheads Zeekheads,
Watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do
When they come for you
When you were eight
And you had bad traits
You go to school and you learn the golden rule
So why are you acting like a bloody fool
If you get hot you must get cool
Zeekheads, Zeekheads
Watcha gonna do whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
You chuck it on this one
You chuck it on this one
You chuck it on mother and
You chuck it on you father
You chuck it on you brother and
You chuck it on you sister
You chuck it on that one and you chuck it on me
Nobody naw give you no break
Police naw give you no break
Soldier naw give you no break
Not even you idren naw give you no break
Troy Dooley, Troy Dooley
Watcha gonna do whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
Why did you have to act so mean don’t you know
You’re a human being born of a mother with
The love of a father reflections come and reflections go
I know sometimes you want to let go
I know sometimes you want to let go
All you greedy people deserve what you get…you are all losers..
People have only etheirselves to blame, and folks without scruples like Zeek Mgmt, and TROY FOOLEY … If many would have shed their cult mentality and taken an objective stance to read the work this website provided… Many wouldnt be so hurt….
Dont put your faith in money, and follow people blindly!!!
Troy, get off your high horse and stop acting like some wise sage feeding us your morality lessons on how we should treat people.
Who do you think you are to talk down to us? You still don’t even recognize who the real victims are. Your arrogance is overwhelming.
That isn’t about BELIEF, it’s about VIEWPOINT. It means I can believe something else, but I don’t have enough facts to support it. It can also mean I believe he’s innocent, but I don’t have facts to support that belief, either.
Choosing a rather neutral VIEWPOINT prevents me from chasing my own theories and beliefs, and wasting time on them when they really are not that important to me. I can instead focus on other parts of the case.
I’m a salesman by profession, and will usually have to handle different viewpoints on a daily basis: My boss’ viewpoints, my own viewpoints, the customer’s viewpoints, the viewpoints of any other involved.
As a salesman, I’ll have to balance between all those viewpoints to make a functional deal.
So this isn’t about my personal beliefs. It’s about using professional methods, and one of those methods is to change focus from on area to another. Whether Troy was paid or not is NOT that important to me. It’s a professional skill when I avoid spending too much time and efforts on that issue.
Well done, Oz. I am grateful to you and the SEC for exposing this ponzi. Having seen it from the inside, I was sickened that it could be allowed to continue.
And when I tried to expose the elements I could with direct evidence, I was attacked by their rabid fans wo had no interest in looking beyond their own bank accounts to realize the fraud and potential danger.
This business will not come back. The fraud was too pervasive and I would not be surprised if Paul and other execs eventually do receive criminal complaints. These people clearly knew what they were doing.
Dawn’s own mouth said they needed more affiliate depositor money or the thing would blow up. I am thankful the SEC has limited the downside for the million affiliates. At least nobody will have lost everything and I hope some of those at the top do get hit with CLAW laws so the little guys get back more of what they put in.
I’d like to present this award for best journalistic and investigative reporting to Oz and Behind MLM.com for their coverage of income, business, and MLM opportunities.
(Ozedit: Thanks! But I’m not sure whose bandwidth that is so I’ve removed the trophy image link.)
Honorable mention goes to the visitors of BMLM for their comments and contributions positive, negative and otherwise.
Here’s to you, Oz.
Cheers!
If it looks Like a PONZI SCHEME and it SMELLS Like a PONZI SCHEME, well……….. IT IS!
People, Find a Legitimate Networking Marketing company, Go to work and live your dreams!
Network Marketing is an amazing industry;it’s too bad that Deals like these give it a Bad Name!
This was not MLM/Networking Marketing; this was a GET RICH QUICK PONZI SCHEME.
There needs to be a facebook for ex ZEEK affiliates. Let them pour out their sob stories. They used Zeek money to pay off mortgages, college loans, medical expenses etc.
Now they are faced with clawback. They are in a bigger financial mess.
I, like others, don’t feel sorry for them. They had the same access to this site. Yet they ignore this site and followed the self proclaimed MLM expert Dooley. I (LUIZEEK) got banned from posting on ZEEK facebook for showing negativity.
The least the zeek sheep could do is admit their stupidiy, and let the world know how zeek changed their life.
Living the Epic Adventure.
Rock solid, healthy, growing business was said by the coo who knew the numbers.
I would appreciate comment or insight into “what happens next.?”
Will the SEC action lead to criminal charges? Generally, the DOJ will get the file after the SEC has combed through the records.
In the action, SEC alledges that Burks maniuplated the payouts. Did he and others know that the scheme was unsustainable and structured like a Ponzi? Was there intent and thus fraud? SEC uses the word fraud. What will the Dept of Justice see?
Secondly, will there be any consequences for the people (affiliates) who profited from the scheme? A la Madoff, the receivers report and the authorities can take action to recoup the money made by the people who profited.
They have the database and accounts. Again, like Madoff, this can take some time. But proceeds of illegal activity (crime) are on the table, I believe. The receiver collects this cash for distribution to the victims.
Months ago I told a number of friends to get their money out fast. Some did, most didn’t. Again, like Madoff.
Troy, come on man. Are you going just going to hide forever? jfc. Get your website back up and post that apology you know you need to post to all those that listened to your constant hype.
Admit you were wrong or duped. Then come over here for a while, we have questions.
That’s not to say people don’t make mistakes, but you were more than that. You were complicit. It was obvious. Maybe you were just enamored with Red Carpet treatment, liked to hang with the blanket caped spinstress, whatever.
Just because in May Zeek tried to delete the word invest from the vernacular, act like ROI had nothing to do with Zeek, hide the spreadsheets, and buying phony customers had to spoken buying or signing phony leads, nothing changed.
I’ll give you the ZeeBates didn’t get rolled out. But, tell me you know it would have done nothing but add another layer of smoke. Affiliates would still have been paying affiliates. Ponzi.
Tell me you knew what the game was. I’m not a Mensa member, but figured that one out.
Chatter is that Paul should just pay the $4 million fine, and get Zeek back up and running…uh okay, Paul get on it.
Hey i have a great question. EVERYONE PLEASE GIVE YOUR OPINION
You mentioned that the SEC confiscated $ 225 million or so and that Paul Burke was only going to have to pay a $4 million penatly
well, if he was taking the other 50% of PROFIT, and its now known that he RIPPED US ALL OFF…
….the why in the HELL dont they take HIS 50% and add it to the money the SEC confiscated and use ALL OF THAT TO PAY ZEEK AFFILIATES BACK?
why should he get to keep any money at all ?
if you scam someone and you get caught why would you be allowed to keep any of the money? it was made illegaly !
So if they dont take his money too, SHOOT IM going to set up the next BIGGEST SCAM and who cares , at least I get to keep MILLIONS and im set for life, so what i pay a 4 million dollars penalty….I GET TO KEEP a FEW HUNDRED MILLION….who wouldnt want that….hummm , wait for it…..
….wait for it…. OH YEAH PEOPLE WITH SOULS, GOOD PEOPLE who work hard and when the believe in something they get their family and friends involved….
i dont care about your LIFE PAUL BURKE and I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS like TROY was trying to defend you….
…..what about ALL THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE YOU SCREWED AND NOW THE SCREWED UP RELATIONSHIPS YOU …YES YOU…NOW CREATED FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILYS AND FRIENDS.
TROY, YOU ARE WRONG ! Blame you …HA ! where does that get us, how does that fix relationships between people who got thier mother to join who didnt have any money and put her last dollar into Zeek in hopes to have a future.
And how does it take away anger and betrayal feelings from friends who you showed and introduced to Zeek that were reluctant at first but you got to join through the proper compliant methods , that now just put 10k in 5 days ago and now its GONE!!
Paul Burke you deserve NOTHING , YOU deserve my Boot up your Ass! and a LOT OF TIME in jail. A year for every persons life you RUINED and FLIpped upside down.
im sorry people but this was no ACCIDENT..oh ooops !, i accidentaly didnt tell anyone that Zeek had investiagtion problems back on JULY 5th. Oooops, i took another $162 MILLION after i knew the crap hit the FAN.
why ? cuz your a scumbag and wanted to rip everyone off.
people dont be fooled , someone should be held accountable, how about the MAN, who is walking away with Hundreds of millions of OUR…thats right…..OUR MONEY..NOT HIS, since he never had real customers and LIED about us being paid back by money from the auction sales, and that OUR new members we signed up were actually paying the OLD ones….HOW IN THE HELL, is that anything but OUR MONEY.
SO, thank you PAUL and Dawn and the rest who blatently lied to us and stole our money. Thanks for destroying the MLM WORLD , i actually think you officially are going to shut the industry down.
When the authorities discover that Troy Dooley was on the Zeek payroll or otherwise compensated financially outside of the normal affiliate payouts, and are able to prove that he was complicit in the extensive fraud involved, he is going straight to jail.
I think you’ve misunderstood, daniel.
There was no “other 50%”
EVERYTHING was faked.
Burks and Zeek “said” they were 50% profit sharing with members, but they weren’t.
That’s the whole reason they were shut down.
IT WAS ALL LIES.
Daniel, Paul and cronies may have spent a good deal of it living the high life. This is just the beginning of the investigation.
He’s not going to get off with lot of money to go on and live his life in luxury, perhaps he will go to jail, and most likely the authorities will be looking for the money he raked off, or things he has bought with the money.
They might auction off physical property to get the cash to help pay off the victims.
Lexington, sounds familiar? The legend Mr. Ponzi lived in Lexington (Mass). So, next time – I am sure will be next time for some of you – avoid places with this name.
GREAT JOB OZ!
ViTel is hitting it hard, as are many others, like vultures over the kill.
Other penny auctions are scrambling and sending out emails to assure that they are NOT like Zeek. LOL
Troy Dooly will never admit he’s wrong. He’s also never going to admit getting kickbacks from these companies. Whether he is or not I don’t know but for some reason he has a track record of seriously backing and supporting very bad companies.
Yes, he’s nice to good companies too. He mentions them here and there. But he does serious positive reviews of very sketchy deals. He was very supportive of that Randy Jeffers guy (former Destiny Telecom founder which was shut down by the feds) with the Liberty International or Wow Mobile.
He gave him all kinds of positive endorsement. Then that company split without paying anyone. He’s backed all kinds of companies that are now gone.
It doesn’t surprise me that his character is being questioned. How can you not?
Just to settle SEC charges.
It is NOT KNOWN if other agencies will pile on ADDITIONAL charges such as mail fraud, wire fraud, and so on and so forth.
The 50% profit was FICTION ALL ALONG. There is NO PROFIT. In July their “profit” was like 1.5%. They took in 162 mil and paid out 160 mil according to the indictment.
You’ll just have to wait. Receiver/trustee will be appointed soon. He’ll get back all the money from the eWallet places, nail down any asset and liquidate them, initiate any clawbacks (if he deems it necessary), then announce a restitution / payback program where you all register as victims and get your bonafides verified.
THEN you’ll get paid. This will take 2-3 years.
Some of those ViTel people are the worst of all. It’s disgusting to see them doing what they’re doing.
Same sort of denial-ism sprouted by SpeakAsians in India.
Burks already signed over all of RVG’s assets to the Feds. It’s OVER.
SavageTraders is one of the companies ran by Dawn and Alex aside from their Zeek jobs. It’s probably gone too. There has been NO reports of where they are.
Paul will be banned from this industry. They won’t let him come back and do anything, and he still might go to jail.
For those who need a summary of what went down here goes:
http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/ZeekRewards-shut-down-by-SEC-as-600-Million-Ponzi-Scheme-What-happens-now-and-what-should-you-do
I’ll probably add a Q&A section soon.
Good report K. Chang
Perfect Kasey, good article.
I filed a report against Zeek to the SEC back in January of this year. I wonder how many other reports they got?
It is safe to “invest” in Zeekrewards now?
@jaden…yes, send me your money.
@Erin
I’ll guess we can consider “the tax issue” to have been “solved”, in that the IRS probably will automatically be involved in the case. So I don’t think there’s any need for the individual taxpayer to do something.
The “Cash available” was clearly NOT supported by money, so it shouldn’t be taxable nor deductible when it was reinvested.
Troy Dooly (#1 scammer-my opinion) is a great great saleman. He stand/sit in front of the American flag and preach about the bible.
@e. lol
Nice work Kasey.
@Kasey
If possible, it’d be great if you could address the money side of things and investigation from here on out.
I analyse MLM business models and comp plans, the legal fall outs of Ponzi schemes is something I’m not familiar with and have no idea on (it falls way outside of the scope of BehindMLM).
Troy recently sent me an email seeking clarification on some points regarding the SEC complaint. While I can accurately compare what they wrote to what we’ve thus analysed, despite attempting to answer his questions I concluded I probably wasn’t the right person to be asking about it as it’s not my field.
A lot of people are wondering what happens money wise now and it’d be great if as a collective some answers could be put up (in Kasey’s Q&A for example).
Well, I just posted my thoughts to Troy on his RVG Closes Doors post that he posted yesterday. Waiting for approval and his reply.
I really need to stop giving a damn about people.
@Ben
I *think* my email server issues are resolved for now. Will test it again later.
I think I can state with confidence that this never happened.
BehindMLM doesn’t exist to help you make money. I analyse business models and compensation plans and publish news, reviews and commentary on MLM. Readers are free to engage these articles and discuss (relatively) freely within the scope of what’s published.
What you do with the information here, pertaining to your own financial situation or otherwise, is entirely up to you.
I’m no advocate and I’m not here to hold your hand. Please don’t try to redefine what I do here to fit your own personal needs.
Just a question ….
How long has Troy Dooly been a “trusted advocate” by 1000’s? about anything
If ASD’s anything to go by (and the similarities are uncanny) this is what will happen:
* the receiver/trustee will get all the money back into the US (supposedly Burks already surrendered all RVG assets), and maybe issue some clawbacks (execs? top affiliates?)
* receiver/trustee will start a restitution program where victims can register their names and ID to be verified through Zeek records, with amounts and all that. Victims will probably need to provide some proof of losses suffered… in this case it’ll be money they put in, not any sort of “gains”.
* when the restitution registration is over, the receiver/trustee will distribute the funds available to all who registered in the proper proportions.
The process takes 2-3 years. ASD was shut down in 2008, though final restitution didn’t happen until 2011. Longer if the receiver decided to do some clawbacks.
I joined in December of 2011 with 2k, I seen checks from others and thought WOW, I will put in 3K more. I never tried to sell anyone to join ZeekRewards, and the past few months I thought this was not looking right.
I was near 30,000 points, but I was not going to draw any money out for another year, to give time for all the possible truth’s to poke it’s head.
The person who got me in was drawing 40K per month, and I told him what was happening when this began it’s crash a few days ago. It probably does not matter to him, because he has pulled out a big stash of cash. There has to be a lot of affiliates who have made big bucks on this, but in reality, that was our money paying them.
I am not going to do anything, I consider it a high risk the day I joined, and have written it off as a “stupid mistake.” Hopefully this will pass for others, I am very saddened for those who have lost monies.
@Ben This is what is most sad about Zeek… there are people out there looking for a legitimate way to make money, to have their own business, and one where they can help people… not hurt them.
I’m sure some of those people got suckered into Zeek thinking they were doing that, however, if they had looked at Zeek critically, and listened to Oz, K.Chang, and others here, they would have made a better decision. Now, they have wasted a lot of time and damaged their relationships.
The NEXT “business” they get in, they are going to have an even harder time succeeding in as they will be full fledged members of the “NFL club” (no friends left) and people they already know will be unwilling to take their advice or follow their lead.
I run a business networking organization, and have been self employed for years in areas related to taxes, finance and sales. I had SO many of my members who approached me about Zeek.
Some I told straight out I thought it was a Ponzi scheme, some, because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings or insult them, I told that I had promised a friend I would sign up under them instead, and for a couple, I just kept dragging my feet, figuring that this day would come.
Because ALL of these people I knew to have good hearts, I didn’t want to make them feel bad, and it was too late to stop them getting involved.
For those that were not involved yet, I did caution them and even mentioned that, if Zeek was a Ponzi, that any profits might ultimately have to be paid back. Some of these people were people I approached about a legitimate, sales related, business opportunity, however it was not a “get rich quick” scheme and, therefore, not as attractive as the “free money for placing one ad” proposition with Zeek.
Sadly, many people COULD have been working a legitimate part time job, or legitimate business opportunity all this time. Heck, buying a $200 lawn mower and mowing the neighbors yards for them would have produced better results than what many people will now see with Zeek (if they have to pay their profits back).
With a legitimate job or biz opp.. they would have been earning money. They would not have to worry about the possibility of having to pay it back (clawback) and, they would have been establishing beneficial business relationships that would serve them well into the future.
We should all remember the old story about the tortoise and the hare. “Slow but steady” can ultimately win the race and there really are no shortcuts to true success. This is part of what “BehindMLM” is really trying to tell people.
@Ken L
Those who profited, especially if they live in the US, may be in for a rude awakening in the future when the claw backs begin. I know some who have bought houses, cars, went on expensive trips, etc.
Some churches and non-profits put money in Zeek through various means, and some of that money which has been used will get clawed back.
The “trail of devastation” that Randy Schroeder was talking about is exactly this.
I remain convinced that the $11M is only part of what Burks took.
Many of those people lined up around the building in Lexington waiting to invest brought CASH. Do ya think all that cash made it to the (foreign) bank?
Forbes pointed out an fact that has been largely overlooked:
This is the largest Ponzi scheme EVER in terms of “number of victims”, at over 1 million.
Dollar amount it’s peanuts compared to Madoff or Stanford Ponzis, but number of victims? This is the worst EVER.
A lot of those are free affiliates that did not put in much.
How many victims were there in Speak Asia?
“Zeekrewards is a legit company”. From all videos by Zeekrewards affiliates. lol
Jimmy,
I cannot even fathom how many people joined Zeek, and how much money is lost. The people that I know who joined were hoping in big payouts.
The reality for some came to pass temporarily, I am sure it is going to be ugly for many, especially those who were signed up by close friends or family members.
1.6-1.8 million according to the company. The EOW pegged it at 1.2 million or so from memory.
The All India SpeakAsia Panelist Association recently held their 1 year anniversary event. Around 50 Speak Asia members turned up.
“Shortly”? lol.
Okay, largest Ponzi in the US ever. 😉
It’s official: Ken Bell has been appointed Court Receiver for RVG assets.
http://www.ponzitracker.com/storage/order.pdf
I can’t believe I joined the largest Ponzi scheme in the US EVER!!!
I posted on Troy’s blog, on his video from yesterday. I was replying to another comment, but the post speaks for itself:
Anybody know what the first step is to try and get money back? Who should we contact to find out where to start?
You might want to leave that off your resume. 😉
Chris B,
My wife doesn’t even know yet, I might not even get to the resume point.
Well, he had deactivated his new comment system and I had made a comment on a different post.
But he apparently turned the new comment system back on and my comment is gone. I think I’ll wait to see if it reappears.
BTW, very well written Jimmy.
@Chris,
Troy’s old comment system is back, meaning you don’t have to register you can just reply like most blogs.
LOL, not where I’m at.
The old system was there earlier and now I see the new system.
Worse yet the credibility that you DID have with some of your leaders who now are questioning if you even really know the facts.”
Troy also set out a serious of challenges. He was so hard on Randy, Oz, KS Chang, and many more but is he accepting his HUGE role in promoting Zeek along the way as a $600 million ponzi scam?
It is not like critics did not try to warn him but to no avail even as the Titanic was sinking and most of the ship was under water. Troy really needs to man up on this soon.
None yet. Receiver “Ken Bell” has been appointed. You wait until he starts the restitution registration, then you get verified, and wait. This will take YEARS. Remember, there’s like a MILLION of you.
I invested in Zeek, I tried to look on the web to find out more and only found positive sites. I still wasn’t sure so I called the Attorney Generals office and ask them and they although I don;t remember the exact works but they did not have a problem.
A local television station did an article on them and they too called the AG and said it was legit. I do not know anything about MLMs but if you do the math on penny auctions it sounds feasible so I put in a small amount.
I also dont know much about the advertising on the internet so it did not sound like a Ponzis. The only reason I foundthis site was a friend who has been in MLMs for a long time sent me the link.
Most of the people I know who invested were just like me and those who were doing well were really working hard at it, it was not free money they were putting in long hours. I am glad most of you here were aware of the down side but we were not and if the AG said it was ok………
All I can say now is that I’m glad I finally don’t have to listen to any more secondhand check flashing in the form of “________ is making $4000 a week.”
I let a comment on Troy’s post from Friday afternoon where he was still in great denial.
All those guys who were receiving $20000 a week checks for there 15 minutes of work a week and paid off there houses may want to start looking into remortgaging! What goes up must come down!
Dawn should take the money she stole and be trying to book herself a seat on the next trip to the red planet.
hello – just another person saying thank you to your site. I was approached about 2 weeks ago by a friend asking me to join Zeek. HIs sister (his upline) was cashing out $1000/wk according to him.
I immediately asked “is it a ponzi scheme” and he answered no. So, I got online to start my research. Watched his recruitment videos, then googled. Thankfully your site came up and I read and read and read.
I probably wouldn’t have been suckered into this anyway, since I hate selling anything, but I am glad that your site made it so clear that Zeek was what it was. Thanks for all your hard work and SEO stuff!
Thank you K Chang for giving us Ken Bell as the receiver for this loss.
Just curious…..with something this huge, how/why did it take so long to be uncovered?
Some of my friends have pretty cavalier attitude about this…comments like “it was fun while it lasted!” or “I put it all in savings…on to the next thing!”
I think the government should go after those banks accounts of the distributors.
Time for some new friends.
Yep, I hope they are tracked down as well.
Has anyone heard from Troy Toy? Im really looking forward to his next video!
Dollies son is involved in this telecom opportunity high up the ladder in that apparently. FREE sign ups for ZEEK Affiliates what a load of BS another lets bleed the affiliates dry, give nothing back BS.
Im begining to think the bigger the con man and crook you are better you get on in life, have nice holidays, drive great cars whilst the hard working idiot puts in money they can not efford to lose gets ripped off time and time again.
Zeek Rewards tele converences so bloody annoying aload of lying bastards, talking shit, cackling like drunk fools talking about burgers and french fries. To be honest what I thought was going on with Zeek was they were taking our money and putting it JBP.
The rewards % was a joke, if this so called auction was running how was it week in week out tues, wed, thurs, fri you’d about 1.8% sat, sun, mon it would be 0.8%. I could gtee what % you would get, this so called business growing so quickly how come the daily profits never increased.
I am past caring now ive lost a heap of $ with this BS company, wont happen again thats for sure once bitten twice shy.
All I can say, is how terribly sorry I am to those that invested into this and lost money. I was thankfully not one of them, but I lost just the same.
When I quit, they withheld a large sum of money due to me and made statements to other clients that determined they did not want to work with me because false statements made against me by Dawn and her posse.
I lost my car, got behind on my house, etc. But, you know what, everything eventually got better and it will get better for the good people who have lost in this event too.
Being a GOOD person and doing the RIGHT thing is HARD and it is often thankless. But at some point, someone will want to work with an honest web designer/marketer. And at some point the GOOD people who got taken advantage of here, will have learned an important lesson and get something back through the SEC.
And those that took advantage knowingly or out of ignorance (and I have to chalk it up to that – because there was enough info out there to learn the truth!) will get punished either through their own guilt or a clawback.
Dawn/Alex/Dan/Darryle need to be pursued with the same vigor as Paul. I also think Troy/OH/Keith Laggos/Kevin Grimes need to be investigated. There is no way these people did not know what was going on when a lowly tech consultant like myself did.
I live in NC, not too far from Lexington, NC. They showed Paul Burkes home on the locsl news. It is a 2 story home, a step above a starter home. I was expecting a palacial estate with all the money ZeekRewards was touting.
My husband had some money in it, thank goodness not very much. He decided he would not put more in than he could afford. Feel bad for the people who had put so much much into it.
ASDupdates.com has all available court documents online already.
https://sites.google.com/site/asdupdatesfiles/documents/other-asd-cases
Find “Zeek Rewards” (there’s a space) on the page to jump to it. There’s a LOT of legal stuff related to Ad Surf Daily, and now, ZeekRewards.
you know who should also should be looked into? The CFO, accounting firm and other back office employees as well as Paul’s extended family.
There is no way the CFO, accountant, bookkeeper etc did not know funds were co-mingling or that “profit” payouts were being paid form new subscriber monies not profits.
Although I do know Dan knew this as he often did those manually. Also, its inconceivable to me that Paul’s daughter did not know being as how entrenched in the daily activities of the company she was and how greatly she profited form the whole affair.
I’m totally sickened that Troy tries to tug on people’s heart strings that Paul has a tough life. How tough could it be – he siphoned off millions of dollars from unsuspecting investors in his ponzi scheme?
Nobody should feel sorry for him – either he is a crook or an idiot and truthfully, either way he doesn’t deserve the money he took or is living off of.
Forbes Magazine has actually been covering it pretty closely, and all the docs. are there as well.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2012/08/18/feds-halt-alleged-600-million-zeekrewards-ponzi-scheme-how-it-happened-and-whats-next/
I’d bet that crossed her mind. Or, somewhere very, very far away.
Wow, have you guys looked at the North Carolina AG’s Facebook page lately? The believers are still claiming it was all honest, legal, “compliant”, etc. and that the AG and SEC should have “looked at the business” and “understood the business” before they acted.
If these people have read the SEC court filing and still think the SEC didn’t understand the “business”, these people are brain dead. That Paul and Dawn sure spun some serious brainwashing on this one.
K Chang! Thank you – that is some good reading – Paul agreed to pay his $4million dollar fine within 10 days. You know what that says? This guy walked away with a whole heck of a lot more than 4 mil.
That is so despicable. Where’s Dawn’s fine? Where are the penalties for the rest of those complicit. I don’t think that goes far enough.
@Pat
Facts aren’t positive or negative. BehindMLM has been on the first page of a “zeek rewards” search for months now.
What you meant to say is you ignored any information that wasn’t what you wanted to hear about Zeek Rewards.
They’re exact “works” were that “they couldn’t advise you whether or not to invest in Zeek Rewards” and to do your own due diligence. They never said anything about not having a problem with Zeek Rewards.
This was false and retracted within hours.
Getting a 1.5% daily ROI for doing nothing (lol posting ads to sites nobody visits (except to post ads nobody reads themselves because ZR told them to)) didn’t sound like a Ponzi to you? Riiiiiiiiiight.
Investing money and finding new suckers to invest money is not “working hard”.
Considering that never happened and all of the other BS you posted, you get no sympathy from me.
@H
It didn’t, I called it in September 2011.
As for the SEC, they’ve also clearly been investigating for a while now. In stating that the Ponzi was on the verge of collapsing, I wonder if they had to cut short their investigation prematurely.
Analysing a business model and following the money is one thing and what I do here. Launching an investigation to collect evidence to present in court on a Ponzi scheme with one million plus members is something else entirely and takes a lot more time.
This of course was pointed out repeatedly to affiliates but was often simply met with ‘LOL GUYS, NO GOVT AGENCY HAS STEPPED IN SO 100% GUARANTEED ZR IS LEGIT11!!1′
Thank god all I invested was $500. But i feel sorry for the people who invested money and know they couldnt stand to lose it
@GZ
They’re the same people that will also tell you the SEC need to take the Zeek Rewards compliance course again and “learn and understand the business correctly” too. So do the Secret Service, myself and anyone else who doesn’t just shutup and “get it”.
Complete looney tunes.
How can we get the money back from the receiver that court appointed?
While Troy hasn’t posted an updated video yet, this exchange on his most recent video on his blog over the last hour is probably a good indicator of how Troy will respond:
Troy replies – note the jab at Keith Laggos:
Local news report from Lexington:
Three federal agencies? The SEC, SS and…?
OZ-KCHANG-JIMMY-E-GENBENZ-MNORWAY. I always skipped or read your post the most. Why. You are true men of character thats why.
Zeek-sheep dismissed this site as full of misinformation. Now they come here to seek information on how to get back their money.
@lee
COMPLETELY AGREE – Oz has had these affiliates backs since the day he started reporting. He was a thorn in Zeekler’s side and I knew when I had info to share it was through him!
I’m sending everyone contacting me (the same people who called me names and threatened me before) here to get the information.
These people either really think Zeek will be back, the SEC got it wrong or they will be able to get all their money back quickly.
It is a sad state of affairs and I sincerely hope that it gets resolved and the monies distributed equitably among those affected.
I even have compassion for those that worked hard for a year to recruit others into this and may be hit by clawbacks.
I think many people owe Oz an apology and others gratitude. I know I was grateful to have someone that had a voice get what I knew out there. So, a BIG THANK YOU TO OZ.
-SOURCE (real name: Mary McKnight) I was only afraid of Zeek and their affiliates, no need to be anonymous anymore.
Bravo, Mary McKnight! Bravo!
-Al (real name: George Hummel) I was only afraid of Zeek and their affiliates, no need to be anonymous anymore.
Yup, same here. Thanks Oz and everybody else!
When some friends of mine at work pitched Zeek Rewards to me I did some research on the internet and thanfully I landed on this site. It confirmed everything I was leary about to begin with.
My friends told me of some people who invested the max of $10,000 in this scam. I really feel bad for the people who lost a substantial amount of money and I wish they could have seen the info that this site was providing months ago.
Great job BehindMLM.com! Keep fighting the good fight!
What is all this bravo and cheers pomp and bull****. I’ve been a whistleblower for months too but you sound like a bunch of heartwarming pansies.
I sincerely appreciate Oz and all contributors but the emotional pageantry is silly. I threw 20k at this scheme, and misjudged, I’ll make enough 20 somewhere else.
It’s been intriguing, Informative, even amusing, but good grief!
@ MB, only 20k? lol . Bravo, Mary, Bravo!
Whant to know Dawn???
http://www.hippiedivamemoirs.com/
No I also put in money for a few friends lol
Probably more like 22k
pansies
@MB, are you a thief? lol
Troy Dooly, I know you come to behindmlm very often, so I’m going to ask you for the last time.
Is Zeekrewards a legit business? Is Zeekrewards a “ponzi”? Is zeekrewards an “investment” deal? Take your time Mr. “I am an advocate”.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the fools who invested in Zeek, including myself. There were plenty of red flags and skeptics with analysis before I joined. Unfortunately, many of the victims seem to be not very educated or non-business owners.
My experience knew better and I understood the risks. I was an active contributer in warning others. But the sec was on this like flies on ****. I’m not joining in the sentimental “bravo” bull****.
@mb: I don’t have any sympathy for those who responded to my anti-zeek posting on zeek facebook. I (LUIZEEK) got labeled as a trouble maker and showing negativity. One person in particular (CJ) was always ready to jump on any antizeek post. So how’s the growing pains working out?
Where did all the zeek-sheep go with their mea maxima culpa? Are they lined up at Troy’s doorstep waiting for the next Epic Adventure?
I started taking money out of my zeek rewards account on the 6th of this month and the first payment was going to be sent tomorrow.
Does this mean i won’t get that money because they shut down?
@Norway Probably no 1099’s coming out for this year, but it will be interesting to see how this get handled tax and IRS wise. I can keep you guys posted on what happens to people who did make a good amount of money in this.
I wanna thanks behindmlm for their analysis and for all the efforts they’ve made. It has saved me and also many others from investing in this ponzi scheme. Thank you Brother.
No ros no money is coming your way
Yes, this means any payouts you previously scheduled via your back office will not happen. Any money you put into Zeek is GONE. You might get a refund after a few years depending on how much the receiver can retrieve.
Many were not getting paid for the last 2-4 weeks. So even if you requested a payment earlier in Jul or Aug, it likely would not have been paid anyways.
Many of the Zeek cheerleaders on the ZeekSupport forum who were telling those complaining about missing payments started to complain in the last 30 days. It was quite ironic to see these top affiliates who were getting paid and being so condescending to others having problems all of a sudden not getting paid their $80k, $100k, $200k payments and complaining about it on the ZeekSupport forum.
The justice system will make sure justice is done for the top execs in Zeek. The receivership will go after the pay affiliates for sure with the claw-back provision… we’ll have to wait to see how far down the profitability list the receivership reaches.
Who I am interested in hearing from are the employees who were also affiliates, but were only making modest income and not the 5 figures monthly income that Laggos and others were making (or the 6/7 figure monthly incomes that Dawn and Mr. Douglas were making). Do they feel lied to? Were they in on the scam the whole time? They must have tremendous anger and guilt shouting down the skeptics and deleting posts in the name of “doing their job” when the skeptics were 100% right the whole time.
Will one of them be brave enough to come on here and tell their story?
I just heard that Paul and Dawn are trying to sell Zeekler.com and Zeekrewards.com on Flippa for 150 Mil. LOL
A day after I was told about zeek in March, I found BMLM. I told him that he joined a ponzi and would lose his money and I didnt want to join.
He kept trying to get me to join and I would just change the subject. Over and over he would say how much he was getting each week and how I should just try small and go from there. Again I changed the subject….
Then Thursday happened…
I waited until it progressed because I knew it was more than the NC AG. Friday came and I told myself I would wait for him to bring it up but I couldn’t wait and called him that night.
He acted like it was no big deal and he was gonna get his money back. He had no idea on the details like the 3 billion outstanding VIP points and that it was all over the news totaling $600 million.
Then he said “But jut think if I had joined earlier….” Made me grind my teeth think this guy has no integrity at all.
So for all you ex-affiliates saying:
“Where can we go to get out money back?”
“I just wanted a little extra income…”
“I was working hard at my home business…”
You are all full of shit, lazy, brain dead fools that have zero integrity and I hope if you did make more than you invested that it’s all taken back.
All these sob stories are BS, plain and simple. Get a job, hell get two jobs. I worked 8-5 on my saturday but I dont have a penny in debt except my home. /rant….
@lee
Yes. Many will join another scheme. I have been attacked too. Who gives a ****. It is great news that the fraud was halted. Oz and Chang personally has hours and hours of work. Jimmy and Norway were very informative. Information here helped detract individuals from falling prey. That is and acknowledged and congratulated. However, I mock the rah rah bravo cheers because it connotes that “they” were taken down by “us.”
What happen to all the employees on the zeeksupport and chat staff?
Their reputation is shot. Not even the Butterball Turkey hotline will hire them.
They had support staff and chat staff?
@darrell
good point! Think of all the wasted time holding on for hours on phone and chat support and then be feed a bunch of bull_hit answers.
I have watched this site for over a month now. Heres my 2 cents.
As Dooley states Judges , Attorneys Investment groups etc. were all fooled. Frankly I was too and I have an accounting degree. It is pretty obvious as stated on the site ad nauseum that to pay out even 1% revenue share on net income generated from advertising is a pipe dream.
What business can even pay an ivestor (lol- I can say that now) 30% per month? Zero is the answer. If you find a public one that is required to show documented proof you’d have something.
Now on to the hypnotic like state many Zeeksters like me fell into. I’ve seen multipe 30k-100k eve 200K in profits from realestate closings/I’ve seen some crazy other ways people earn big money. Look at the facebook story the ebay story , the yahoo story. People are just looking for their way to make it in the world.
To make there mark. And yes if its too good to be true it probably is. But some of the posters on here who want to call zeeksters stupid or greedy or unethical etc. need to chill the f out. Taking joy in other peoples pain and celebrating a debacle that will hurt hundres of thousands people is gross.
Not as gross as Paul Burks and that rightous Dawn Olivares lying cheating and stealing but still gross. And Troy while I like your personality and style I have to say you had alot of people warn you about your endorsement. I think its gonna be really hard to stay disconnected from this as an outsider when you really became the face of the company sorry. I hope you can recover.
My recommendation is to come out admit you were wroing. Admit you were conned and allow the NWM community some time to admit you back in as an expert. Currently you are not sorry… I will say this forum has been therapeutic for many and want to thank Oz and whoever else manages “the site that never went down”.
I urge you all to pray for the many thousands of people whose lives will be devastated by this illegal ponzi. I wish everyone well.
You were right. Got most of my people out in the possitive but have to reimburse a couple of friends to come out clean. Guess I was lucky. Thanks again
OZ, I saw your comments about what I said and I have a full time job and 4 children I am caring for. I did spend several hours on looking at the internet before I invested.
Yes my friends were trying to find other to buy into this but this was no different than the last MLM venture they were in and that one was and still is legal. I put $1000+ in that one and I have not gotten anymore back from that than I will from Zeek.
This is my last attempt. I invested only a small amt and I would only sign up silver ($10) so I could watch for a while. I am glad I did. You may think all of us out here were just trying to get rich we were not some of us were just trying to make ends meet.
I am not dumb and I have an advanced degree but you couldnt keep up with me in my world and I don’t know this one.
I don’t want you to feel sorry for me (it is obivious you don’t). I am just wanted to say all of us who invested had no way of knowing the penny aution was not working and the AG office can not advise anyone but they had to be investigating when I called and could have at least thrown out a hint. For someone like me we depend on offices like that to help.
You know the funny thing is the DOJ site makes the statement that we should call them when cosidering a business venture, a lot of good that did me.
Holy shit….where did you get your degree? I have a high-school education and I’m a network marketing millionaire.
1-2% a day…you’re an accountant. You should switch professions.
I spoke to customer service chat, email, phone numerous times because of the many issues zeekrewards was having. I actually that the employees did not like their jobs very much.
There was times I was number 125 on the calling list to be hung up on when my time came. I made purchases on the Auction, and the items I purchased were all delivered by Amazon, that was surprising.
I cannot tell how many times I watched the live auctions to see how items sold, and there was for sure something wrong with the operation. I was a Diamond Affiliate since Dec 2011, and I seen many things along the way that said, hmmm, and I just waited and watched.
I spoke to my upline about what was happening, but he was getting 40K a month or more, he never said how much he made, but I know he was making a nice amount of cash. And the person that signed him up was probably making a whopper sized amount of cash.
This is surely an eye opener to me, my first MLM venture, and probably my last. I lost 5K, along with the 99.00 monthly fees, and all the time I spent getting people to go to Zeek. I had over 15,000 visitors to my site from my invitations, and only had 1 person sign up as a silver, then went to FREE.
I never tried to sale it to people, I just posted mega links across the web, spending some nice cash along the way.
I guess posting it on websites was actually trying to sell it, another mistake I made during the past year. I hope others can get some money back, I am not sure really what to expect, I guess not much.
Well done mate, you must feel pretty good about yourself? Calling people who joined zeek rewards “lazy, brain dead fools”.
I know someone who joined zeek rewards who had a “highly classed” job and worked 7 days a week, does that mean he’s lazy and brain dead? NO! so maybe get off your high horse and have some respect for all the people who didn’t realize that zeek was a scam and lost money due to the dishonesty of others.
Some people are going to lose friends and have a lot of finance trouble due to this website and here you are rubbing it in people’s faces!
Look at the unemployment rate in America. Do you really think that it is so easy to just get a job? maybe that’s why some people joined zeek, to get some income to pay for their child’s schooling fees or even just to put food on the table so i highly doubt the “plan is simple”.
Surely you must have something better to do that to sit on your computer putting others down? who are most likely having a really bad time at the moment…
I have a great idea for you to “make ends meet”:
1. Put all 4 of our children to work
2. Have all of them give you their paychecks
3. Have them log into the home PC and each dollar they give you, give them a “family fun point”
4. When any kid wants to buy something, give them money over 90 days
5. When you have to pay the mortgage/utilities/clothes/hookers/blow you drop the “family fun point multiplier” and their points fall off a cliff
6. have them invest more money….
Nobody is taking joy in the average former investor’s pain, but there was a LOT of hostility from quite a lot of supporters directed toward anyone who questioned the multitude of red flags.
I personally, do not feel sorry for them.
Hey there, friend of the site all the way from Pakistan. Appreciate all the hard work you guys (Oz, Chang and the rest) put in. I’m glad Zeek has bit the dust.
I never bought into Zeek BS despite many of my close friends trying to convince me, the biggest red flag to me was their eerily consistent 1.5% daily ROI, what company gives out a daily 1.5% ROI?
Anyways, now that it’s all over, my friends have pretty much wised up and since none of them put in any significant amount, they can just chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.
What’s awesome (read: infuriating) to me is that the most of the upliners who’re responsible for bringing Zeek here in Pakistan are STILL insisting that this is a momentary setback and that the company would be back in a day or two and at the same time have already moved on to the next get-rich-quick scheme, called (Ozedit: this is not the place to bring up other opportunities).
Now I’m no expert but this seems to be the most blatant pyramid scheme I’ve ever seen. I guess greed just blinds people. Anyways, keep up the good work.
Love ya.
I am so glad I found all you guys who were so right. I have never met people who were perfect before, and never made a mistake.
Geez good luck on that search. Come back and let us know if you ever find them.
No, Zeek SAID “Judges , Attorneys Investment groups etc. were all fooled”
Big difference. Read the SEC complaint. It was ALL a fraud.
As an accountant, you know “due diligence” does NOT mean accepting someone elses’ word an event has occured, ESPECIALLY when the “someone else” stands to gain from you believing what’s said.
Zeek was smart.vIt didn’t have to con millions of people. All it had to do was con Troy Dooley and he did the job for them.
Hopefull after this, there will be hundreds of thousands of people who will never again believe something is “true” because someone they’ve probably never heard of before “said” it was true.
Think about it. 6 or 12 months ago there were thousands of people who had never hear the word “ponzi” and didn’t know Troy Dooly existed. Yet, today they’re out there a whole lot poorer and saying “but Troy Dooly said”
It would be a pretty clever fraudster who could pull off a multi million dollar online fraud WITHOUT lying and without providing false testimonials, wouldn’t it ??
Which “judge”
Which “attorney” ??
Which “investment group” ??
Really Al. Seems like e is a pretty righteous jerk to me.
I got my accounting degree from North Eastern University. I own a couple large companies and again I admit I was fooled.
How? Because like I stated if you read the rest of my post instead of posting your “you cant get 1%. You cant get 1% rant” and then insulting me… was this I have seen some ridiculous money made easliy in for example real estate transasction where you bank 50K for 1 month of work and a flip. Or a business that takes off from scratch and does 100k by month 2.
So it does happen and 1% a day is nothing in those scenarios Mr “genius”. So my point is that people were conned that PENNY AUCTIONS were very profitable and since it was a relatively new concept it was concievable that the profits were substantial.
So again people trying to find the big win or people trying to make a few extra bucks ignored the red flags, ignored the experts (although we thought Dooley was one) and in many cases got into denial like the Laggos firing. But your attitude is so hateful.
People will suffer and people will suffer big from this mess. Just because a person was conned doesn’t make them stupid and you a genius. Frankly with your attitude I’d be surprised if you pull in 6 figures. Anyway. Get over yourself.
Neither do I feel sorry for 99% of them. They were so hostile, pigheaded, cultish and vindictive to anyone who questioned anything about Zeek.
I personally was subjected to arrogant, snide and venomous retorts to simple questions I asked on Zeek community forum. I was banned everytime for asking anything about where the money was coming from, what about what Laggos had said and so on.
I had to resign up under another sponser just to get back in the cult forum to try and open your blind closed eyes and mind.
Not a single person on that forum was receptive to any type of critical questioning. You just ganged up on any naysayer and got them banned. You only wanted to stay high on your saviors kool-aid and wanted no part of anything that wasn’t part of the zeek fantasy.
In my books you deserve NO compassion, no help (remember you wanted no constructive criticism 3 days ago) and no help in getting your money back. Go to Fooly’s kool-aid stand if you want help.
Everyone of you zeekers (remember how you all liked to call yourselves that cultish name) would still be hating on this site and anyone critical of Zeek if Zeek and Lord Burks were still operating.
You deserve no compassion, and if someone here who is nicer than I gives you some, be very thankful and realize you do not deserve it.
The most ardent Zeekheads are recruited as “employee” but no salary (I guess) for acting as forum mods.
Please tell me this is the same “Chris” from MLMHD? If so, go puff on Troy some more ya babydoll.
GTFOH. No one cares about you and your degrees, businesses, or how much zeek rammed it in you, cry baby cry.
Yes. I rest my case. Education has nothing to do with intelligence. You’re a moron, blinded by greed. Thanks for validating.
OK Al what due dilligence did you do.
I know Kevin Grimes and spoke to him. (more to follow on that)
I vetted Dooley by calling several players in the industry who gave himm rave reviews.
I call the Attorney General who at the time had only 1 complaint.
I vetted the ownership of Rex and found their statements to be true.
I investigated Penny auctions by talking to a friend who was trying to launch a Penny Auction and couldn’t due to under capitalization. He thought Zeek was brilliant and informed me that Penny auctions were a gold mine.
I googled every corner of the net and found a scarce amount of negative.
I spoke with over a dozen 6 figures earners in the industry and 9 of them were in Zeek already.
I put in a measly 1,000 and to put in more time for that seemed a little silly. So again all you geniuses who didnt get in and want to pat yourself on the back.
Let me know your due dilligence other than you cant make 1% duh crap. Guess what ya can. You can make 100 percent in a month on the right real estate deal. You can make 50% or more on the right equity position in a start up.
So now let me here the due dilligence (other than reading OZ and K Chang that you did to dismiss this ponzi. enlighten me…
And frankly, it doesn’t matter. The problem is most of them did not follow the #1 rule of investing:
If it’s too good to be true, it probably is.
They simply SELF-DECEIVED themselves into thinking that they found the “exception” to that rule. As the posted of Fox Muldar said, “I WANT TO BELIEVE”. They WANTED to believe, because they trusted someone ELSE when they should not have. They did not analyze the facts, but analyzed OTHER FACTORS (like friendship, family relations, etc.) that turned out to be IRRELEVANT.
And just which judge, which attorney, and which investment group was Dooly talking about? If he meant Nehra, Nehra’s judgement on suspected Ponzis can’t be trusted after ASD, nor can Laggos.
This is nothing but attempting to spread blame, i.e. “I was fooled just like everybody else.” Well, many of us were NOT fooled.
What did we do different? We did not get as close as he did.
@Chris
With all due respect, reading Oz and Chang was plenty. How many more places do you need more than one? Quine same questions were posed over and over. The same questions were avoided over and over. ( I personally lost over 20k when the red flags were glaring, wah)
@Chris
Sounds like you did everything except look at the Zeek Rewards compensation plan and follow the money.
That should have been the first thing you did when conducting your due diligence on any MLM company.
To give you an idea of just how important analysis of a MLM company’s compensation plan is, I don’t even bother reviewing a MLM company if they don’t offer up their compensation plan to the general public.
That in itself is just too much of a red flag to ignore.
99.9% there’s only one reason a company hides their comp plan – they don’t want you to know or attempt to work out how money flows through the business. Zeek Rewards were kind enough to provide this information openly on their website – and still people ignored it when conducting their due diligence.
Words to participate in the MLM industry by: 99.9% times a compensation plan is all you need to evaluate and conduct your due diligence on a MLM company.
It’s a damn shame so many people have now only realised this too late. I’ve been banging this drum for years and despite all the claims of “negativity”, “bias” and working for competitors and associated nonsense, is the heart of each and every review on BehindMLM.
This approach to due diligence on a MLM company hasn’t let me down yet.
Whilst I appreciate the thanks people have expressed, let me stress that what I do here on BehindMLM can be reduced to one man’s “open-book” due diligence on every company reviewed here. There are no secrets, I don’t know anything more than anyone else and I don’t have any super powers (I think).
I’m just a guy with a keyboard and if I can do it, anyone can.
I was never on a community forum and futhermore I never knew there was one. The only reason I am taking time here is because I have been dumbfounded about all this.
For all the claims of telling everyone about the problems with zeekler I never heard anything negative. The only thing I ever heard was “is it legal” and as I have said before all I could say is “according to the AG it is” .
So I never spoke to you and never heard your “constructive criticisum”. Your compassion of lack of is not going to help some of the little old ladies some have signed up (I didnt sign up any old ladies but I know of some who did)
Ah.. e so now because you avoided this Ponzi your more intelligent tham me… lol.
No I never posted on MLM help desk and here is what I think should go down. Burkes shoud be brought up on some other criminal charge (like it said in the filing he can be either criminally or civilly).
The attorneys should be sued because I believe they knew (some level of complicity).
Dooley should have some liability because he became the Face. And Dawn Alex and the other Execs should do jail time.
So I have no allies that back Zeek. But I do know people who were conned and many of them again bought into the possibility that Zeek really was profiting Big on Penny Auctions.
If ya think all the million people who got in are stupid than thats your opinion but remembers opinions are like (ya know) everyone has one. Congrats on your genius in following Oz’s lead and restating his accuracy in the facts. Reading and reposting must put you at a 160 IQ lol
How can anyone be fooled? With over 1,000,000 affiliates pulling down 2% per day, not even the most profitable company in the world (Apple) would last very long.
I mean come on guys.. I watched my neighbor turn 1K into 8K in 4 months.. if that.. so in another 4 months he would be at 64K, 4 months later.. 500K or so, 4 more months.. 4 million, 4 more months 32 million…
Are you guys stupid? This is just one person with a $1,000 investment, what about the other 999,000 people? This was clear as day to me, it was a Ponzi.
Yes their will be a major hit to many. I feel for those who had their rp set at 0% !
I would imagine some folk who will be clawed back will have paid for their rent, food, bills with the money from zeek. It WILL send people BUST, no doubt about it.
Anyway I hope people get as much back $ as possible from this scum and for that to happen all those high flyers will need to be clawed back, every last cent, interest and all. Gonna have to sell lambo guys OW NO!
I had reported them to the SEC in late June and many others did before me too. I also hope Troy FOOLY gets locked up with a 7ft (Ozedit: ok let’s not go too overboard there!).
@Pat
The NC AG have never stated whether or not they believe Zeek Rewards to be legal or not.
Why were you running around spreading this false information?
It was only in operation for about a year & a half. Two years is stretching most ponzis. The poorly run obvious scam ponzis might run a month or two, while Bernie Madoff’s ponzi ran for some 12 years or longer.
I don’t think this ponzi would have lasted very much longer if the SEC hadn’t stepped in. From reading their affidavit, Zeek was almost broke.
Hence why I said 99%, the 1% I would have compassion for is for the little old ladies who were signed up by one of the cult affiliates.
I don’t know how you could not have seen a negative review or comment, did you never google Zeek Rewards, there were a number of critical websites which show up on the top of the search results, this one included.
Why did you think 350-700% interest a year was probably legal? Did that not raise any flags in your mind? If it didn’t then you should immediately turn over control of your money to an accountant or someone else who has some critical business reasoning skills.
You know what they say, “A fool and his money are soon parted” I researched Zeek when I was thinking of joining and had no problem finding critical reviews of it.
My due diligence: The first time someone presented Zeek to me, I told him immediately that I recognized it as a Ponzi and I wanted no part of it.
In other words I didn’t let greed and blind disregard for my fellow man supersede my God-given common sense, discernment and sense of how to treat others.
Oh also, we don’t know how long the SEC was aware of Zeek and investigating.
Oz of course I did that. And honestly I did question the internal consuption question.
You left out from my post that 9 of the 12 6 figure earners were in Zeek. That weighted heavily. I believe in a multitude of counsel and when I brought up the question of percentage of Affilliate purchases going to the profit 9 out 12 were convinced that it was nominal.
In retrospect I did question it but like I admitted I was fooled. And I cant share the conversation with Grimes but I will say point blank it was not negative.
Heres my main point. Many businessmen and even some leaders were fooled. Sure for some maybe even many they were greedy , no doubt, but the theme of some of your posters is that anyone who participated was an ittiate and unethical and my stance is that while that maybe true for some, that the majority of the participants are victims.
This experience will be a hard lesson. I have reccommended this blog to many zeeksters, in fact to anyone I know who was participating in Zeek. Some pulled their money, some never joined, and some ignored your post.
I took out my money and will reimburse the only 2 i referred who lost. Thats the best I can do. I don’t have one ounce of sympathy for Burkes the staff Grimes, Laggos, Dooley or anyone else who played expert and in most cases flat out lied to induce particpation.
For the large group that bought in and put faith in friends and family and lost big I do.. But thats me… This “here” is your show so you do as yo please…
I would say yes to that question or because he was not blinded by greed, one or the other, I lean to the first one.
Yes, I actually do have an IQ in the genius range, so bight me. I’m more intelligent that you.
Lol, Due diligence: I did the math, I watched red flag after red flag present itself. I got out.
As for your resume, who gives a rats azz?
@Darrell…thanks.
@Chris
You own 2 business and it STILL wasn’t enough for you? Gee. Sometimes greed gets in the way of rational thinking, integrity, and intelligence.
Oh add to that I suggest authories lock up entire seek company including Dooly, then force TD to sign out of his mlmhd for good with “promoted an epic ponzi” or even “going to do time in an epic shithole”
Just for the record I never got paid a cent, on not one. I didnt loose much but for Gods sake I know of one senior citizen who put in so much more than she could afford to possibly help her fixed income. She could be dead before this is all settled.
I can assure you she did not insult Darell. She cant turn on a computer much less post on a forum. I had no idea so many were putting money in or yes it would have been easy to see it was going to fail. All this is not cut and dry there are as many stories as there are people who have been duped.
So if you are not aware of how many are coming in and you think the penny auctions are doing well then yes it could have been possible to make a lot of money fast.
And Oz I will consult your blog about comp plans in the future.. for real
Did you not pay attention Pat to what I said??? I said I have no compassion for 99% of the zeekheads. I saved 1% for the little old ladies who were duped!
1% of 1 million affiliates is 10,000 affiliates who maybe deserve compassion. I figured 1% or 10,000 would cover all the innocent little old ladies.
@Pat
So who preyed on her then? You cannot sign up, deposit money with e-wallets, set daily reinvestment amounts, give bids away to fake customers and spam the internet if you have no idea how to use a computer.
Someone (along with Zeek Rewards) gamed her and should be thoroughly and utterly ashamed of themselves.
Chris, BTW, “Northeastern” University is one word, not two (“North Eastern”). You should probably take the time to learn how to spell your fake alma-mater.
I suspect Kevin Grimes was NOWHERE AS CLOSE to Zeek as Zeekheads thought he was (and Zeek portrayed him as).
I’ve always predicted that Kevin Grimes only supplied his generic MLM compliance course, at mlmcompliancevt.com to Zeek. ANYBODY can buy that course. And if Zeek promised to buy like 10000 of them, he’ll probably appear on camera or at particular RCE, esp. when Zeek pay for the plane ticket and hotel.
I don’t know what exactly you and Grimes talked about, but I seriously doubt he would have told you “Zeek’s fine” or “Zeek’s scam”. Zeek paid him, he performed what Zeek paid for. He confirmed he performed something for Zeek. END OF STORY.
Zeekheads then spun that into “Kevin Grimes would never associate with a scam, therefore Zeek’s legit.” That’s “association with authority” fallacy.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/bad-argument-association-with-authority.html
ANYONE can be fooled. Even him. WHY did he say he thinks this business is legit? Don’t rely on experts. Experts CAN be and often ARE wrong.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/05/when-experts-fail-appeal-to-improper.html
Lack of complaint doesn’t mean lack of problem. That’s appeal to ignorance fallacy.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html
You investigated the wrong part. you investigated the leg of the elephant, not the whole elephant (using the 3 blind men feeling an elephant analogy). Or to use a Batman example, you investigated the light side of Harvey Kent aka Two-Face, and didn’t bother investigate the dark side.
And those inside are not exactly going to say anything NEGATIVE about it, will they? Sunken cost fallacy and all that? You should have asked the 3 that did not join WHY they didn’t, and those who did, if they have any doubts, like “it’s too easy”.
Not enough skepticism
Not enough critical thinking to look PAST biases
Not enough knowledge about fallacies to look past deceptions and cover stories (deliberate or not)
You had conditioned yourself into ignoring the rule: if it’s too good…
You deceived yourself. You did just enough research to satisfy yourself that it “seems” legit. I posted the link to TED video before, but here it goes again:
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_the_pattern_behind_self_deception.html
Nothing personal, honest.
I found most of your comments to be accurate and informative. This whole thing with Zeek Rewards frauding people is disgusting. However, remember that hindsight is 20/20.
I researched Zeek for a week before joining and I never really put that much money into it. It’s good people were out here warning others about it but who would know what behindmlm stood for unless it was explained to them.
I searched all the negative comments I could find about it but only found one or two and it was nothing as revealing as I have read here. Just one or two people questioning the Zeek system and giving opinions. So don’t tell someone who really had no clear idea of what they were getting into with Zeek how stupid they were and they deserved it.
At the same time I’m glad to see that some people found this site and others like it or from their own experience avoided this load of Zeek BS…. Many people reguardless of what others might believe got involved with Zeek not knowing it was a scam.
So to those of you who like to gloat and rub salt in people’s wounds… remember how it feels the next time you make a mistake and somebody tells you that you deserved that… There hasn’t been a person on the Earth who hasn’t been made a fool of or made a mistake at some point!!!
Hey Al , If you can master reading I posted where I got my degree cuz e questioned it in an earlier post not to resume up.
But your I did the math hmmm. And what math would that be. Lets hear how a genius calculates an undisclosed figure to come to this conclusion. And oh ya got out. Ah so you were in Zeek and got out. So ya did the math When?
I got out too Al. So what. Again you insult without a basis. I posted the due dilligence I did cuz I was questioned. So How are we different Al. We both got in as you admit and we both got out when we saw the red flags. If you did the math then why did you get in?
Heres the difference. I don’t hold myself up as a genius cuz I got out. I admit I was conned and defend the majority who also were conned, drank the koolaid, joined the cult whatever… To assume they are all a bunch of unethical hucksters in not intelligent.
It’s a condescending gloating that isn’t any better then then when the cult followers bashed you. I don’t support them either. Just not a people basher. But I guess condesension and rightousness is my hot button.
This just in from Troy Dooly (he’s gone back to IntenseDebate so I can’t link the comment):
Every Ponzi has an elite club, a group of people that sit at the top and assist management every step of the way. The ‘founders club’ of Zeek Rewards was theirs.
In exchange they receive special perks and commissions the rest of the affiliate base do not and in most cases, are not even privvy too. That list,(along with executive management affiliate account details, is the key to fund recovery as it reveals to who most of the money paid out through Zeek Rewards went to.
Let’s hope the authorities are on top of things.
My guess is her grandaughter did not “game her” she like me thought is was a good thing and she was trying to help her. We were duped.
Yes you were right but if I dont know you or anyone like you, and if I dont have time or resources then all I can do is listen to others like our AG and those making money.
If they are not forth coming or not telling the whole story then I get fooled. Sorry we all are not all bad nor dumb just fooled and more broke.
@Chris
If you did and analyzed the information, then you simply made the wrong call. I made the wrong call. I don’t think I was stupid. I have made many good business calls, and other bad calls.
At the time I joined I thought the website was hokey, the RPP was mostly all affiliate internal consumption, and even the penny auction industry in and of itself was suspect for regulation or deemed illegal gambling.
My risks were measured based on the possibility the company would transition the model into something viable. In addition my father had presented it to me and I did not mind doing something with him. I invested 20,000, two accounts, knowing full well of the red flags.
However, although nobody wants to lose any money, this investment (I love saying it) was not a big financial risks for me. As a matter of fact I sort of approached like this. I bought a baseball card thinking the card convention might be coming to town. I.e. I actually considered it an INVESTMENT and considered the compliance lingo bull****.
To enforce people not to use a specific common word was a major red flag right here.Turned out the baseball card was fake. Lol
The turning point for me was when I bought $400 worth of leads (200) from Z-customers as an experiment that produced zero retail customers. It was obvious hokey ads did not create sales on a penny auction website. Endgame.
There were plenty other red flags that were clearly pointed out on Behind MLM. Even if you thought BehindMLM was some rogue hub of bad information or slander, you had the opportunity like me to weigh the facts out. But I don’t believe everyone who decided to join was stupid.
Speaking of, OZ, our good buddy Gary Bessoni. How many leads of the approximate 10,000,000,000 (10 Billion, May as well say kazillion) were bought at Z-Customers, and how do we now consider their relationship to Zeek.
For the people who said they did not or could not find anything negative about Zeek before they invested, I will tell you what my first red flag was. It wasn’t searching for a negative or critical review either. It was sitting down at my desk, turning on my calculator and grabbing a pen and paper.
I then proceeded to figure out what 10,000 dollars would turn into in 8 years basing it on an average ROI of 1.4%. I figured this would tell me if this company is self sustaining and long term.
Just like all the others on here who did this, I found out I would have over several trillion dollars between my 8th and 9th year. And yes that was taking into consideration the 90 point expiration.
I then knew this was a short term ponzi based on that alone and was doomed to certain failure, 100% guaranteed. That is when I took to the web and searched for other critical reviews and to see if my math was wrong. So all it took to steer me clear of this ponzi scheme was 5th grade math.
You weren’t doing a real estate deal and you weren’t buying an equity position in a start up.
Being an affiliate of a company isn’t even a remotely close comparison.
Truthfully, nobody needs to read anything more than a 1%, 2%, or whatever per day ROI claim to wrap up their due diligence on these things.
Sure, there are opportunities to make those kinds of returns for a short period of time with some investments, but you know that type of ROI can’t be sustained.
These scams are promoting the ability to do this indefinitely and for everyone involved.
The amount of “effort” required to qualify for the RPP was also a tell tale sign that this was a ponzi.
Oh well, lesson learned for you I hope.
K. Chang … now thats an intelligent response thanks.
Can’t get into details here but it was NOT negative and I was direct with him. I pay him ya see. Thats all I can say.
Think you are right about the closeness issue but he did allow the company and the dupes to use his name and the compliance course was a confirmation. I think he is going to have some liablity. But your point is well taken…
I think your pretty spot on and I am going to review your links. Thanks for teaching and not bashing. I will be more prepared to review in this arena next time I am approached..
I did actually listen to the 3 naysayers and quite frankly they were also pitching me on their deals so I wasn’t confident in the objectivism.
(You deceived yourself. You did just enough research to satisfy yourself that it “seems” legit) This one I need to ponder. Maybe I did. Maybe I got caught up in it. Fortunately I went small but Ya got me thinking.
I am going to review your links Mr Chang. And thanks to all who responded. I Love learning through debate..
The signs are there.
They tried to inject more revenue streams (Zeebates, mandatory video, mandatory training, etc.)
They have various payment problems, with the eWallet folks holding their cash as collateral (a bank wouldn’t do that, but no bank in the US would deal with them)
Laggos’ solution of going to foreign card processors may have got them out of FTC’s radar, but brought them under bank’s radar, credit card company’s radar, AND in turn, SEC’s radar. Not to mention all those “foreign” transactions, huge amounts, just SCREAMS “ASD clone”. All those blocked transactions raised alert levels at all banks.
And the company started to go after critics… such as me. They can’t hit patrick or Oz here, as they got their own domains, but they can hit me because I use Hubpages. But they can’t use their lawyer (who’d have told them everything I wrote was legal), so they got this Craddock guy who wrote something that resembles what a lawyer would write but made tons of mistakes.
HP, in their caution, turned off my hub while this is resolved. Craddock thought they can intimidate me, but I didn’t budge.
The mood of Zeekheads are getting ugly too. One actually claimed that someone may visit me, while the other basically hope to see me as victim of a beatdown reported on TV news. I don’t know if they are real Zeekheads or shills (Zeek employees using shill accounts). Those who read the comments on my hub will see the comments preserved.
It was ugly, and it’s beginning of the end for Zeek.
@Pat
It’s ok, you don’t need to use compliant terminology now, that nonsense is over.
What you meant to say was her granddaughter signed her up and raped her retirement fund, for the sole purpose of earning referral points to increase her own share in the daily ROI being paid out.
That’s exactly what happened.
No OZ I am not saying that at all if you knew these people you would be so sad for them. This grandaughter is devistated it is so sad.
Dont you egg heads get it people who did not know or understand were fooled and hurt, I am only glad it has ended before it happened to others.
I forgot who mentioned the term first, but they are the “judas goats” of Zeek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_goat
If you think these people on this forum who saw this ponzi train wreck far in advance are “egg heads”, then WTF are you, one who wasn’t even as smart as these egg heads who did see it?
It’s not sad in the slightest, you joined thinking up magical fairy tales of 1.5% daily compounded interest. Use that “advanced degree” next time, egg head.
@Cast
Well good thing the Ponzi nature of Zeek Rewards was called eleven months ago then.
25+ articles and thousands of comments. Yeah, no worries champ.
The SEC complaint put hard numbers to analysis and review of a compensation plan was evaluated and called out for functioning as a Ponzi scheme (passive investment) 11 months ago.
The hell have you been?
Stocks go up and down… Some make, some lose… just wondering if there is a plan to assist consumers who were involved in this to recover any of their losses. Who do you contact?
I hear there are frozen assets which should help. This is a “First Post” for me folks…
Granddaughter perpetrated fraud by diverting the retirement money into non-retirement purposes, did she not?
She mentally justified it as “it’s just sitting there, I can grow some money then put it back…”
And now she’s lost control of it for years, and may get back only a tiny portion of it.
Of course she’s devastated… but NOT *that* devastated as it’s NOT HER MONEY.
Yes, I’m being a little snarky here.
I hear ya Chris. So ya feel if its never been done it won’t be. And that there are no affillate programs that can earn you 1 to 2 percent a day. Again I respectfully disagree. Having made a few bucks with Clickbank I will tell you that I have had a couple winnners that would top that.
I agree with you on the effort issue. It certainly took more than 5 minutes a day and a deposit to earn returns from the Click Bank affilliate programs. Again thanks. Like K Chang said with his Batman analogy I shold have looked at the dark side.
Again with only a little of skin in the game perhaps I did due dilligence light. Seems like more than many here though like you Chris.
You spotted it, killed it quick, good job. If I am faced with a too good to be true, I will debate it first. and once fully educated be able to influence my contacts to pass when appropriate…
Thanks
Yes you can – ONCE.
You CANNOT do it day after day, week after week and you CANNOT do it so hundreds of thousands of people make 1% a day.
You forget, even IF had Zeek made massive profits on THEIR investment, it was paying out ROI based on the amount of the MEMBERS contribution.
If what Zeek said was true, and it was sharing 50% of ITS’ profit per day, and members were receiving 1% or 2% PER DAY, Zeek must have been making AT LEAST 2% or 4% PER DAY on those days.
pick a subject.
Any subject about which you know little or nothing about, other than its’ name.
You know, quantum physics or nuclear medicine or the role of bacteria in the digestive process, whatever is relevant to you.
How much “due diligence” would you be prepared to do if:
1) it was going to cost you money
2) it wasn’t
How much “due diligence” would you advise:
1) an elderly relative
2) a struggling family
to do ??
If you controlled a family trust upon which all the members depended to survive and were liable for any losses, how much “due diligence” would you do ??
As with all things, the level of “due diligence” is strictly your own choice.
HOWEVER having made those decisions ( including finding out exactly what “due diligence” involves) you then forfeit the ability to then shoot the messenger and/or post smartass comments deriding said messenger.
There are genuine victims of this Zeek fraud, for sure.
IM(very)HO, you ain’t one of them.
You didnt read very well, I dont want you to feel sorry for me, Ill be ok but there are othes who wont. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.
I didnt do full vetting I called the AG and searched the internet for a couple of hrs. I made a mistake in thinking our AG would let me know if it was a problem company (I live in NC). Some of the people I know who signed up just did not know.
It ain’t hindsight. Oz first reviewed it back in November 2011, and I published my own review in April 2012. (I could have swore I had it earlier than that, the Hubpages listed it as April 12, 2012)
Chang she is not like that, she really thought she was doing a good thing.
Then she needs to work her a** off and pay grandma back, with interest
@Pat
Yeah, big mistake, do you think the AG knows every business and what they sell? If I start a business tomorrow called Weeds & Seeds and you call the the AG of my state, do you think they will have any info on me automatically?
So the AG says we don’t have anything to say about Weeds & Seeds, nothing in our files, so you go ahead and order 10 bales of pot from me and then are shocked when you get arrested and your happy weed confiscated.
Surely you are brighter than that.
So she thought ‘the ends justify the means’? Like it’s okay to steal, as long as I put the money back?
I know it’s tough language, and I’m being emotionally insensitive, but that’s why I’m a skeptic. I keep emotionally detached from the things I analyze.
Emotion is one way scammers gain hold over their victims. There’s a whole slew of fallacies related to “appeal to emotion”.
Even after reading SEC memos, SS investigation, NC AGs involvement, and everything else associated with this ponzi, people like Troy Dooly are still defending it. Hope he gets his due share of legal scrutiny.
As for “regular” zeeksters who are here reading all the comments, I can’t believe they are still accusing Oz, KChang, M_Norway, e, Jimmy and many other true critics – who have shouting from the rooftops all along – of not having heart, compassion, understanding and in between.
Those really hurt are the ones who did/do not know that behindmlm exists, and if they did, they are not accusing these critics for anything.
A majority of these “regular” zeekseters who are here now and accusing the site and the critics are more interested in making quick bucks and moving on to the next big ponzi/pyramid the moment they see it.
Exactly, and at a rate of 1.4% per day compounded interest (because remember that is not out of the ordinary) until it is repaid in full.
Sure, you can make that type of ROI for a little while with some things, but it’s mathematically impossible to sustain 1-2% growth per day, every day, for everyone.
That’s what these scams are selling.
A few years back when I was marketing wireless products via PPC ads, I was generating a 150% ROI each month. My goal was 125%.
But there would be no way in the world that I could perpetually increase my profits to infinity.
That is the bill of goods that these ponzis are selling you.
Like some have mentioned here, all you have to do is crunch the numbers on the insane amount of money that it would equate to just a few years down the road.
You couple those unrealistic numbers with the 30 seconds of work you need to do to “earn” that income and you have your answer on the legitimacy and sustainability.
LOL Darrell. Absolutely
So you dont love anyone because you are a skeptic, not your grandmother or mother, yes I might agree if the emotional ties wern’t already there.
She invested her own money too and lost big. To some of you 10,000 isnt much but in my world it is so much money. She was not at all emotionally detached she was wholly engaged and she was scammed and unfortunally so was so many others.
I am glad you are analyzing things and in my profession I have to become detached sometimes too but there are human stories here and a lot of pain, I hope that dosent make you happy because if it dose then you might need to analyze that.
Taken from troy’s site
What a complete dink, boob, shill, thief, cheerleader! The down right sliminess of this man is unbelievable.
Zeek is great, zeek is great, get in quick, trust me I’m a expert. While promoting zeek, he’s getting payed! Complete looser! Take down the flag Troy its disgraceful.
@Pat
It is a huge amount in my world also, which is why I made sure it was legit before I threw money down a shithole.
I did a little number crunching and a few minutes researching and sure enough Zeek Rewards turned out to be a shithole ponzi. I kept my money.
@ Chris: Didn’t you say you have a degree in accountancy from North Western? If so, you must know how to put formulas on a spreadsheet like Excel.
Do yourself a favor and spend 15 minutes doing it. Put 1K on day 1 and compound that for 1 year, 2 yrs, 4 yrs, and 8 yrs. Make sure to retire points earned on Day 1 on Day 91, Day 2 on Day 92, and so on and so forth. I am sure this will give you an answer about how much you would be make after a given period.
Note how much you would be making and think about thousands, hundreds of thousands or million of others just like you putting that 1K and growing it to infinity. I am sure you know the symbol.
As for me I simply trusted a friend and put some money without realizing or trying to understand enough about Zeekler side of their earning potential (or lack there of).
This zeekler has, of course, hoodwinked many a good folks. If you are one of them, like me, just accept the fact and realize your mistake instead of rationalizing your action.
They had bad teachers. I had classified MLMers into 6 types, and even some subtypes.
They were taught by the “recruiter-type” MLM Stars, and aspire to be recruiter-type themselves because that’s how they believe MLM should run. They are wrong, and most of them will just wander from one scheme to another, always looking for “the big one”.
http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Six-Types-of-Network-Marketers-which-type-are-you
I don’t consider emotion when I analyze something that demands LOGIC and EVIDENCE.
And spending up to 10K, which is not “easy money” for any one except maybe the “one-percenters”, definitely needs to have an emotion-less due diligence performed.
This grandaughter may have the good intentions, but was deluded by “wishful thinking”. As the cliche goes… the road to hell…
@Chris,
K.Chang covered the logical fallacies. To take a more practical approach, I prefer to use the ‘common sense knowledge’ method of analysis.
1. Using math, one would conclude the 1.5% daily compound rate is unsustainable. Math below at bottom for just one account, let alone a few 100k or a million accounts all compounding at 1.5% per day.
2. Using business knowledge, one would conclude that it makes no sense to pay an affiliate so much for placing a daily ad, when it could be outsourced to an ad firm, full time employees, or outsourced contractors for a fraction of the cost.
3. Using internet marketing knowledge, one would conclude that the spammy classified ads are useless, produce virtually no click throughs, and suffer from over-saturation anyways (what could 10k spammy ads on one site achieve that 1k spammy ads could not?)
4. Using finance knowledge, one would conclude that if Zeekler were that profitable, why use affiliate investments in the first place? Why not get VC’s or just a straight bank loan?
5. Using internet research on Zeek’s, one would conclude that Zeek operated as a straight up investment & Ponzi until Aug 2011, and had a nearly identical business model and compensation plan and commission structures as Ad Surf Daily and a dozen other Ponzi’s.
6. Using knowledge of IT or website design, one would conclude that a poorly designed site running on outdated ASP technology, and having Adsense blocks on the main information portal means the business must be running on thin margins.
7. Using due diligence and a spreadsheet, one would have concluded that it was impossible for the penny auctions to have generated more than a few small % of revenue based on the ending price and number of auctions per day. When it was shared in May that the top 12 affiliates were making over $1M/month, it should have been 100% obvious then that the auctions could not support Zeek Rewards pay out. Up until that data point, all we could do was estimate based on the 2011 IDS and some data shared on the leadership calls.
8. Using knowledge of history, never has any business opportunity or investment ever offered > 1% daily compounded ROI and not been a Ponzi (thanks RealScam.com for this insight).
None of the above is “hindsight” as all of it was analyzed in real-tie here at BehindMLM.
This was the “math” in #1:
I wish NE4aPonzi would drop by to weigh in..
I’m still wondering if the Facebook reply that Al made Oz aware of was intentionally or accidently leaked by the AG because Zeek chose to continue to not disclose the ongoing investigation.
Why would they announce the investigation before the feds moved in. Oz wrote the article, then the AG office confirmed the CID, and the SEC swiftly moved in and brokered the deal.
41 days went by between the day the CID was issued, and when the office was shuttered.
DR K it was North Eastern. But if you read my posts you would realize I’ve done what you ask. I’ve accepted my mistake and admit I was fooled. I did many a spreadsheet. And yes the numbers got crazy. However the unknown variable of profits; awas “proprietary” threw me.
I have seen companys grow fast in my life. One of my associates built an empire (not NWM) in 3 years that paid 20 30 50k/ mo to thousands of people so….zit happens.
Heres my bottom line. I started posting to just to put my 2 cents in on having a little compassion for the victims. ONe of you posted that I was not a victim. you are correct I got out in time.
I am not defending my due dilligence light… I was wrong… I was conned etc. K Chang and Oz not surprisingly have schooled me here today. But again you can debate without the rightousness and insults i love the engagement.
Personal attacks and that gos for the zeeksters show weakness. Like when politicians resort the the mud slinging. So again love the intelligent debate but I am for laying off the victims a crucifying the criminals.
Per the SEC document Burks knew exactly what he was doing. He set the return rate manually himelf. Point the anger at him. Please.
@ Chris
No, they weren’t fooled. They were greedy.
@Chris – it is refreshing that you are open and honest, and quite intelligent obviously from the conversation. Self-reflection is always important and you are not in denial. It seems like you are just ‘talking it through’ with others here and that’s healthy.
I think there are still some heightened emotions by some, especially the Zeek critics who felt many months of hostility. The discourse should improve as the facts come out.
I think many are waiting for a cathartic release from Troy when he posts his next video Mon or Tue. I personally don’t think they will get it, and we’ll see another 500 comments hit when that happens. But, hey, better to talk than not!
@Jimmy Good stuff. Heres the rub. I did fantasize that they had profits from other areas as they stated (due dilligence light), I also believed that since the 1.5% was not guaranteed that the company would reduce it to .5% or .25% or whatever was necessary to sustain it.
So theres my somewhat impotent answer to your math. Points 1,5,7,8 and your table. And again the Alexa rankings and other somewhat effective window dressing did influence me.
Point 2 and 3 you’re spot on and I really dont debate except for the teeny perception that perhaps they were directing advertising money to help the little guy and save the industury blah blah blah (lol I know naive).
As for point 6 I am uneducated in websites. I do know that their are many great websites that look like a million bucks where the companys are bs so I guess I applied the opposite a little. that the company couldnt keep up with the growth and wasn’t trying to fake a look to impress.
Again good stuff Jimmy and like I stated earlier. I will no doubt be consulting this website before ever participating in a network again…. Thanks
Blanket statement. Thousands involved. Many greedy, many fools, many smart, many stupid.
There were so many fools here and on Hub Pages, when someone once gave Chang a formidable debate on HubPages, it was so refreshing, it was a reminder there were a few rational folks out there.
Exactly, wishful thinking. You convinced yourself.
Many people who had private reservations about Madoff’s scheme kept it private. Many thought he was “pre-loading” the trade orders to shave off like quarter of a point in trading and profiting off that.
They convinced themselves Madoff would have to be crazy to do a Ponzi scheme.
Thanks Jimmy You are right. And I guess some of the early insults to my post are a results from the cult like behavior of some Zeekers. It seems to have dissapated a little and yeah I guess ya wanna bash back a little when people are so stubborn and wont listen to the facts laid out.
Emotion plays a huge role in these games and I believe we havnt seen the tip of the ice berg on the devastation we are going to see from this. I have seen small networks crumble and have it destroy lifes. I hate put word on negative but I believe people will lose their homes, jobs, family and perhaps even suffer serious health problems.
As for Troy – Troy I have to belive you are following this Post. Contrition, full disclosure and an absolute and complete awakening is your only chance to salvage your reputation. All the Name dropping of Grimes, Burke, Your other good friends who know these people only sends you deeper into the association.
If you really want to be a NWM advocate the go after the criminals not the naysayers (who were right by the way) Focus on how you were conneded and go after them. If you are who you seem to be you were tricked into trusting flat out con men and woman. They knew it. Read the findings.
It was not a golly gee I did’t know I was running a ponzi. The only way you can stay in support of them now is if you support a flat out ponzi. No accountant or accounting program in the world can unwind 162 million in from new reps / 160 million out. NO ONE.
So pick a side. Black and white. You seem Troy like a real guy who picked the wrong horse. I hope its true and you completly aplogize and admit you missed it because if you dont worse things can be assumed. Like you were complicit.
With or without money this company however they did it got you to be the face. Like said in earlier posts. Man UP. I am praying for ya.
This is classic irony.
Zeek’s Facebook page which was taken down is still in Google cache. The last Zeek motivational parable posted on 8/16 was this:
I wonder if Paul, Dawn, Alex, Darryl, Keith, and the 200 founders who will get clawed back are using this wisdom as we speak?
I did not not Yogi Berra was in Zeek
@KChang Agreed (with a little help from the con). No guaranteed return, 190 on Alexa, 15 year old company, next Google, fastest growing direct sales company (several websites) #1 Penny Auction blah blah blah.
But yes ultimately we all sell our selves. Just call me sucker.
@MB Agreed
@Jaden. First Impression Yes. I had someone call me and a corporate team from Bidify is doing a webinar claiming they are not like Zeek and they can document the profits justifying that they pay from real profits.
My reply was yeah but what if he’s lying – lol . I am sure we will get analysis soon if not already done. Refer me to the analysis if done. Thanks
The area I live in has a very high unemployment rate, and jobs in this rea are scarce. I was approached by well meaning friends about this “opportunity” with zeke.
When I was told about the amount of return, I commented, “Really?”. The response was, “It’s not a Ponzi or a pyramid”. First red flag. A couple of days later I was told how I needed to get on this because one friend had just made $250 online by only doing two hours work. Second red flag.
However, I knew these friends were honest hardworking people. One had been laid off and hadn’t been working for a year. They had pooled their money to become “affiliates”. They kept asking so I decided to attend a meeting.
Three hours before the meeting I went online to conduct a little “due diligence”. Most of the websites I saw were all positive about Zeek and the great amount of money to be made. A little too positive. Then I ran across a scam warning website. I had never read so much hate directed toward someone who had posted a negative review of Zeek and Zeekrewards.
Then I read a post from K. Chang and Oz on this website. Big ol honkin’ red flag. Another post led me to the Attorney General’s site. I finally decided to check where I should have started, The Better Business Bureau for northeastern north carolina. Over 30 complaints in less than a year for Zeek and Zeek rewards.
From that website I found the name of Rex Venture Group, Paul Burks and his wife. I also found the many other pyramid websites Mr. Burks has. He may have a home in North Carolna, but his principal residence is in Las Vegas Nevada. He has lived elsewhere and appears when things go south, he closes shop renames the company and starts again
I did not tell my friends, though I wanted to. I knew they would not believe me. Instead I told them I’d attend the meeting but might have to leave early.
Well, it was a packed house. The leader played a “webinar” explaining about Zeek and Zeek rewards, the “Matrix” the “Daisy”, and the kitchen sink. This time I was trampled by the bull charging at the big red flag. I excused myself after the webinar.
That was Tueday, got invited back for Thursday…well we know what happened then.
Long winded way to say…true due diligence pays off. I do feel sorry for my friends. They meant no harm, just trying to make ends meet. They lost at least $2000. Making easy money fast and making money for doing nothing is true only of people like Burks,Burks wife and family, Dooley (yes he is in on it, I have no doubt), and the top “affiliates”.
When you’re WITH a cult, it’s self-reinforcing. You seek out those like you, and you in turn become more like them.
There’s also the “mob mentality”, when a mob will do things no individual would dare do, because you can’t “punish” a mob, which has no ‘face’. Add that to a bit of anonymity on the Internet, and you can be “lead” into very very stupid things.
Go look up “Steven Hassan”, cult expert, and his BITE model. See how many of these techniques were used against you, accidental or deliberate.
I do a similar thing with HYIPers and ponzi players:
1) “Insiders” Most of whom we never hear of or even suspect exist.
2) “Playas” who aren’t fully “inside” but know exactly what they’re doing and do most of the “grunt work” including much of the cheerleading, most of the disseminating of false information.
They are usually indirectly rewarded with some inside info, including advanced warning of negative events and higher referral commissions.
3) “Players” who also not on the inside, know what they’re doing and whose main purpose is to maximize their own return from the ponzi “game” and self describe themselves as “gamblers”
4) Greedy bastards who know EXACTLY what they’re doing, that what theyre doing is both immoral and illegal as well as the risks, but just don’t care as long as “they get theirs”
5) Genuine “victims” who are the prime targets for the fraudsters themselves
Something I learned a long time ago is, it doesn’t matter one iota what “I” think or what stupid/naive/deserving/idiotic/uneducated labels others apply to them, there ARE victims, there ARE large numbers of them and NO ONE has the right to profit from them.
It’s FRAUD and NO ONE has the right to carry it out.
Too bad most of those “rational” Zeekheads are full of logical fallacies, or are guilty of examining only one part of the story. One was trying to convince me “profit-sharing” is legal (except he can’t prove there are profits), while another was basically using all the pseudo-science tactics like no true Scotsman (moving goalpost), disclaimers, and so on and so forth.
This is a followup to Gen3benz comments on MLMHelpdesk earlier, which despite my best efforts have not been able to get to the bottom of (short of contacting Troy, because I believe this is something he has to go public with himself):
In the now infamous June “the answer to that would put Zeek out of compliance” Aces Live Radio show, the following exchange took place between hosts Troy Dooly and Jim Gillhouse
Today, the following exchange between Gen3benz and Dooly on MLMHelpdesk:
The July RC day was held towards the end of the month and the Aces Radio Live show was broadcast before the June RC event. What am I missing here and did Troy just admit he’s been financially compensated by Zeek Rewards?
Did not having “skin in the game” just get redefined???
The immediate deflection to Laggos is somewhat reflective of the gravity of such a revelation, given gen3benz never asked a 3rd question or brought Laggos up himself.
For the sake of the MLM blog niche and out of appreciation of Dooly as a fellow blogger, I sincerely hope this isn’t something that we will have to wait to see in a future regulatory complaint to get the urgent and explicit clarification on it needs.
@Polar @Gen3benz1 – Wow – Ok Troy you were paid. Guess you need to disclose that now cuz the feds are in it. Hmmm. Gonna be a long road back. A long and dark road.
The good news is people like to see contrition. I think even Swaggart got back on some level. Bad news the money thing is big. I think you may never recapture the trust.
Then again alot of your rise came from Zeek so maybe you can settle down pretty close the the pre-Zeek level. Again come out humble brother cuz if ya don’t I fear your gonna get a pretty big stompin.
@Chang
At least one, you remember, maybe the only one, with the two part post. He ended up wrong of course, but at least intelligent, engaging and formidable.
Got an editorial from kevin thompson that’s worth a read, and I really like the quote he used:
http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/08/zeekrewards-closing-down-the-mlm-attorney-speaks-out/
Now this is good stuff to say the least. Below is a portion of an entry written by Dawn Blanket Cape W.O. Back in 2010 on her site HippieDiva memoirs regarding the BP oil gulf spill. Just fill in the words “BP” with “Zeek”
I think Troy made more off his mentorship/coaching program than whatever Zeek paid him. Think about how many hundreds of thousands of people who learned who Troy Dooly was but never knew of him before? Remember Zeek did a plug for Troy and vice-versa, and lots of cross-selling with ANMP.
Someone should pay the $75 to see the members only portion of mlmhelpdesk. What are the members who are in Zeek saying behind closed doors?
Regarding the ANMP, between Laggos and Dooly, and Troy’s previous “coming clean on Zeek” video, you have to wonder what the ANMP is thinking now?? If it was bad enough to fear lawsuits when Troy made the “coming clean on Zeek” video, think about what that fear is NOW?
@Oz
Troy admitted he had been compensated and signed a NDA back in his comments when he released that lengthy video explaining he was not for sale and that he would not compromise his values ( my wording)
@Mitch
Sidestepping from Dooly’s payment arrangement with Zeek for a second,
Forget Dooly and Laggos, the Association of Network Marketing Professionals was neck deep in Zeek Rewards money. From ‘Zeek Rewards Exposed: OFAC, DDOS and compliance‘:
The Executive Vice-President of the ANMP was on Zeek’s payroll… Dooly is just a committee member.
Too little, too late? If anyone would recognize the Ponzi nature of the business model, Kevin Thompson should have.
Kevin is not shy confronting MLM’s publicly and has filed class action lawsuits on distributors behalf against MLM’s.
So why didn’t he warn others before? Why are people holding him up like some brilliant analyst after the fact when so many of you here called this thing from a mile away.
I nuked Kasey’s comment because the article at BusinessForHome was just a rerun of Thompson’s own blog post, which had already been linked to previously.
That said,
Guess who Bidify’s lawyer is…
Thompson’s recent seemingly strong stance against ZR is quite honestly a bit of a mystery. Bidify also offer members a daily ROI with a point system. Members are also able to re-invest their daily ROI in more bids to effectively increase their share of the daily ROI paid out.
More from HippieDiva:
@Oz
Speaking of Peter Minglis, this entry is on Hippie Diva memoirs back in May of 2010:
On Troy’s website he still has an ad saying, “Join Zeek Here.” Too funny.
Kasey’s link did have something Kevin Thompson’s original blog entry did not… open comment system including Facebook plugin. Just saying… it was a repeat, but had some value for me to read the comments.
Troy five hours ago on his blog:
Something is just wrong here don’t you think?
I just thought his quote was funny. 😀
But honest, I’ll even venture a guess to why… It’s not his job.
Lawyers only do things for billable hours, unless it’s pro bono. Reviewing a business doesn’t do that, unless it’s more of a self-advertisement, which that blogpost / repost on Ted Nuyten’s website, is.
You’ll notice he kinda mentioned his own role in the whole thing (lawyer for Bidify) but kinda glossed over it.
It’s not a lawyer’s job to review other businesses. He may be employed by that business later, or run into the principals later. He may know the law, but unless you’re PAYING him for advice, he’s not going to volunteer any. IMHO, of course.
He’s, uh… what’s the American version… Tail end Charlie. yeah, i think that’s it. 🙂
This is where it all started. From HippieDiva memoirs:
(Playing amateur psychoanalysis…)
He’s still in denial, and defensive due to all the people calling on him to confess his sins or something.
You guys need to offer him some carrots, to get him move past those 5 stages of grief (anger and denial), and get him toward depression and bargain, and toward acceptance.
IMHO, and since I’m not a shrink, my opinion’s worth nothing. 😉
Wow softballs on mlmhelpdesk. Cmon. I mean Im forgiving but Troy saying he Didn’t sell it and said he wouldnt join.
The First exposure I had to Zeek was him all excited about the NMBJ article. They played it at a meeting. He was clearly selling and excited. To quote ” and look at this guys” 25 to one customers to reps” blah blah blah.
Is he censoring posts? Cuz I got a bit to say to him but don’t wanna waste time. If he really believes he will escape culpability he is in a denial greater than the facebook posters. Is he censoring?
@Chang
A better approach would be the 5 love languages
Quality time: Gen3benz, keep visiting the helpdesk with questions
Words of affirmation: Sympathizing affiliates, keep posting how great Troy still is
Gifts: ANMP Give Troy some compensation to make up for the red carpet cancellations
Acts of service : Oz, buy a security guard for Troy’s house
Physical touch: Chang, uh…never mind
@Jimmy
Fair enough then, re-instated.
Not to the best of of my knowledge and your comment should eventually go up. I dunno if they’re split-testing or what but sometimes I get IntenseDebate comments and others the regular platform.
IntenseDebate is intensely annoying and I’m not a fan of the threaded comments system for larger comment numbers so I haven’t commented there in a while.
I know that he does hold every comment in a moderation queue though so don’t be surprised if your first comment takes a while to show up.
Troy rarely censors as long as the comments are civil. One thing about Troy throughout his entire Zeek coverage is that he does allow the critics a voice on his blog, even if he always disagrees and doesn’t accept the critic’s logical reasoning.
Since the NMBJ article was brought up again…
Troy, of course was on better terms with Laggos then. But how to you possibly wave that paper with giddiness, and not disclose that it was an info ad written by Dawn, produced by and profited by Laggos, who was being paid as an affiliate, and consultant. Even if he did not know about the entitled 200, it was misleading . Even if he had not signed a NDA yet it was ethically questionable. Even an affiliate in my upline who at the time was taking $20kto $30k a weekly was sending out that article by this distinguished journal. When I brought up the Laggos connection, the defense was that “moms have always done that.”
Moms supposed to be mlms
Correspond a real income? Don’t you get that there was no real income? 98% of the profits shared were from new investors. Who wants to split the 2% that is real income with a million affiliates?
In other words, THERE WAS NO REAL INCOME. Just reference the articles here on behindMLM about how the penny auction site was really more of a liability than an asset.
Why in the same line of thinking, why didn’t the feds let Maydolf come up with a half a billion dollars or so in case someone wanted to pull out and change his compensation plan? Is this line of reasoning simple enough?
From SEC complaint
DisregardIng compliance and the RPP %, If he was simply making up a number, why would he not reduce the % some, add the qualifiers, before it got so close to the brink? The most logical reason is fear.
If he made too drastic of a move would create panic and 0% bid repurchase. All top earners should have been capped as this is where the compounder put them on the brink by July.
Why were they not capped? Logic points to pressure and greed by the minions at the very top.The implosion happened at the 200 club, and their immediate downline.
Because all of the top earners were insiders and members of the “founders club”. They had to have known it was a ponzi but just played along.
If he cut them off, they’d throw him to the wolves.
But… no one is paying Kevin Thompson to comment on Zeek post-shutdown. The conditions that “prevented” him from editorializing about Zeek BEFORE the collapse are the same AFTER the collapse:
– no one is paying him
– it is not pro-bono
– is not a self-advertisement (or if you think it is, it would have been one before the collapse as well)
If I could have been Gillhouse, when Troy said ” as a rep,” I would have responded,” as a rep, a monkey, a circus clown or ANY reason. Does Zeek pay you representing yourself. If not a rep, what do they give you money for to do?
And if Gillhouse were not such a wussbag, when Troy interrupted Dawn, Gillhouse should have said let Dawn speak for herself, and please use an answer without the word “burger”
AdSmartz just billed my credit card $9.95 which is slimy.. They are trying to sneak in one last payment on a Sunday at 5:30 AM Z-Customers simply shut down people’s account.
Background – Never posted in a forum like this but need to vent, Hope I posted this right.
I’m a former Zeek affiliate who should have known better…but I’m over it. Stupid…I’m over 60 years old, should have known better…but oh, well.
I’m writing because I cannot beleive the cult like behavior that exists in MLM’s. I’ve gotten emails from folks in my upline asking us to pray for Paul Burks and this morning, “Do you think Paul Burks should go to jail as well as face civil charges?” Well, here I go…
Oh, yes, Paul Burks is really a stand-up guy, isn’t he? Should he go to jail? Are you kidding? Read the SEC Complaint, specifically Paragraphs 40-45. He knew from the get-go what he was going to do here….he’s the mastermind behind it, manipulating daily profits, etc.
Ad Surf Daily is written all over this thing when you examine the principals, including top earners. I only hope the authorities intervened soon enough to find others to hold accountable for this crime.
Not only should Burks do time, but I can only hope that swift justice will come to the leaders of this company who were responsible for perpetrating this crime! Hey, maybe Dawn should start shopping for a shawl that has nice shades or orange to match her orange jumpsuit in the next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It still irks me to think of that conference call I was on where she was scolding everyone for making so many phone calls…distracting them from running the company. Yeah, you mean your REAL business of finding banks to hide the money offshore!
Call my husband and me naïve but it is what it is. We are certainly old enough to have known better. But given we have a failing business on our hands due to the economy, we thought, “What the heck!” We will be fine, though, particularly in light of the fact that we may be getting some money back. If not, oh, well.
I just want to wash myself from the sleaze that I’ve been witnessing and move on. MLM folks are way different than we are used to in everyday life. We are farmers and deal with good, honest folk every day. May not be rich financially, but spiritually and morally, truly great people.
I guess there will always be folks drinking the Kool-Aid of the next company that’s out to bilk investors and sacrifice integrity in their cults. (Yes, Zeek, I’m calling it what is, an investment, despite your pathetic attempts at compliance to teach us otherwise.)
Instead of Kool-Aid, I will be satisfied with a tall drink of water in the fellowship of good, honest, hard-working folk with dirt under their nails. We have our priorities straight.
Hats Off to Behind MLM! All of your “Zeek Guru” critics are now Eating Crow.
For anyone looking into an MLM company – or into any type of “investment” program where you can put money in and “get paid without sponsoring anyone”, I highly recommend first consulting this excellent resource – where the facts are separated from the hype and laid on the table for all to see and evaluate for themselves.
What happened to Zeek’s Tax Expert Howard Kaplan? He couldn’t see Zeek was a Ponzi?
I wouldn’t hire him to keep the books on my kid’s lemonaid stand.
Oh come on dude, dont you know Dawn is rated the best MLM expert in the world?
Says it all about the industry as a whole IMHO.
Simply laughable, dear oh dear!
I see others are having trouble posting on Troy’s site. I tried to do a version of my post above because I know it’s visited a lot by Zeek affiliates…and THEY NEED TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES! But I wasn’t able to post…keep getting all kids of error messages.
The site is down a lot. Is it usually hard to post there? I guess he’s just getting a lot of traffic. ????
There are some amazing people on here and we all owe you a huge round of applause for sticking to your guns and giving everyone a heads up.
I have a friend that is always chasing the next get rich quick sceme and he got into Zeek about a month ago. He’s been pitching it to me and others he knows as usual.
I’m not an experienced MLMer and don’t have the experience you guys have here but when I look at anything as a biz venture (especially MLM) I look for reasons “not” to do it. If it passes that test, I will “consider” it. Basic common sense approach and never with dollar signs in my eyes.
He said he went to the home office and that convinced him to join up after “fighting” it for a year. He went to the people that had the biggest reason to lie to get convinced. I went to a scam site. Go figure!!!
He pitched me for an hour and I listened so I could have a basic understanding to investigate the plan. It didn’t take long. I list what I saw.
1. The bidding. I looked at Zeekler and saw how the biding worked similar to other sites. My first thought was who in their right mind would at retail pitch in a dollar at a time at this? It’s like wadding up dollar bills and pitching them into the Grand Canyon.
I’m in sales and think like a customer. I would never waste a dollar at a time like this seeing how the bids jumped all the time. Totally fake concept for sure. Big red flag.
2. Bidding again. There were items selling at 3 to 5 times their retail. That did it for me. It had to be an auto-bidding process to spend the Ponzi “new dollars” in from new suckers. How could anybody not see this?
3. The Draw it out scheme. You are encouraged (or maybe have to) leave your money in for a while and even when you start drawing it out you ar told to keep most of it in to maximize your earnings potential.
This is a perfect setup to prolong a Ponzi for obvious reasons. Tell people how much is in the bank and if they leave it there it will in time maximize their earnings. Brilliant in plan, obvious in scheme.
4. This site. I put in “Zeek Scam” in Google and found this and other sites. End of story.
I have a close friend that is a high level accountant that was the first to pitch this to me. I am shocked he bit the bait because anyone with business savvy and common sense and a numbers mind would see this is a scam.
Just my thoughts. Thanks again to the great minds on this site.
I’ll prefer to watch that process from a distance, rather than close by. I can imagine that process going on for months, where someone gets involuntarily involved in the process. 🙂
Einstein’s philosophy:
“To solve a problem, you’ll need to involve other parts of the brain than the parts that created the problem in the first place.”
I’m not really sure it derives from Einstein. For me it derives from some selfdev book I read more than 20 years ago.
I will clearly prefer a faster method than the anger and denial –> depression –> bargain –> acceptance. I can seriously imagine the feeling of being involved in that process when I’m trying to post a “normal comment” there.
I have seen comments on here saying Zeek was not allowed to cash bank cks after July 6th, does anying know whether that is fact or fiction????
Mr. Dooley should seek good legal counsel at this point. I’m pretty sure they would advise him to keep his big mouth shut. Some of the things he has posted since Thursday may come back to bite him.
I want to say first of all you were right and I was wrong. I read the reviews here and listened to Troy Dooly and allowed his analysis “out weigh” the statements and reviews here.
I am not one of those poor affiliates who put everything they have in the company and will worry about paying my mortgage, putting food on my table, paying bills, etc. My heart goes out to them. They were the worst of the victims. I can recover even though the money lost is going to sting quite a bit.
I have learned that you should always listen to that inner voice when it comes to your money and investing your hard earned money for the promise of financial freedom. There were several times that “voice” tried to scream at me.
The first time was when Dawn posted on Zeek news that you had to put money into Nxpay so that it would have money to pay out.
I posted a comment to that stating I was confused, that we were not being paid by other affiliates money but through the profits of Zeek Rewards and Zeek Rewards was suppose to be sending the requested cash out to Nxpay and the affiliates that put money into Nxpay should be going to Zeek Rewards to purchase bids so why would we have to “load up” Nxpay with our money?
My comments were NEVER published nor any subsequent comments, they always were “awaiting moderation”. I think I was banned from any comments from there on out good or bad.
The second time was when someone, just a few weeks ago, got on the support site to report a problem and their title was something like fraud on zeekler. The complaint was there were several “people” on the penny auction site that were using several different usernames and bidding on numerous items but they were the same person and someone needed to check on that.
The post was up long enough for me to see it but was taken down within minutes because I thought I would go back into it and print it out, it was gone.
Like many others I think I wanted to believe too much that I could make money with this “opportunity” of a lifetime. If we had concerns we would ask our upline and was reassured everything was fine and he truly believed that as well.
I was one that also thought behindmlm was a hater and Troy knew more than they did, why did I believe this? I have no idea now. It was really stupid of me now that I look back on it.
I am thankful this company has not taken everything from me, I did keep my job which I love and am thankful to have and have a way to pay my bills, many do not have that option this morning and are very desperate and I have read many many comments from depressed affiliates.
I truly hurt for them and they do not need to hear you were stupid, I told you so, you should have known better. How does that help anything? It doesn’t, it only adds to their shame, disbelief, and depression. NOT ONE PERSON ON EARTH WANTS TO HEAR I TOLD YOU SO.
It takes a compassionate person to say, I am sorry this has happened to you, this is the fault of the company that deceived you and you can recover with some hard work.
Heartless people have gotten on websites, that are solely for the affiliates to support each other and discuss the events, and have posted cruel, mean comments, and poked fun at and have called the affiliates disgusting names. Why would such people get entertainment from that?
I even had one to tell me to get off Welfare and get a job. However, there have been compassionate people that have expressed sorrow for our situation and offered prayers. This type of event I suppose brings out all types, those that are gloating and those that are truly sympathetic.
Thank you for keeping us up to date, the only “news” we can get is from each other and there are still those affiliates who are holding on to anything they can hoping Zeek will come back and blaming the SEC for the mess. I hope they can finally see that the fault lies with Paul, Dawn, Alex, and all the other employees who worked at the head quarters and knew what was happening.
Regardless if this thing was sustainable for several more years, it was illegal! It could not have lasted forever and there were going to be more victims once Zeek went under and there would have been NO money for anyone to recover.
And the affiliates would never have known what happened as there was NO communication coming from the corporate office. We are LUCKY the SEC stepped in.
Anyway I humbly concede, you were right, I was wrong and I hate it, not because of pride but because financially I wish my head had not been in the sand.
Troy is still saying we dont really know what % of earnings came from affiliates…is this guy actually even trying to keep up with the facts?
Does he not know where to find or how to read SEC Civil Action?
@Jimmy WOW – I never did the math to that level nor would I have as the math I did do said this this was a scam. But wow – you really crystallized for everyone right there. TRILLIONAIRE (that is enlightening).
As for those of you that say nobody every warned you or you did due diligence but never found anything grossly negative. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY!
The information was out there and the AG never advocated for this. You only read and heard what you wanted to hear.
As for Troy/OH/Keith Laggos – it is clear these people were not industry watchdogs or expert – they are noting more than paid spokespeople.
I know they are paid because I was there when they were handed checks or discussed their compensation.
If Britney Spears drinking Pepsi doesn’t make you want to drink Pepsi, then Troy Dooley drinking the Zeekler cool-aid should not have caused you to invest in it.
Now, since Troy holds himself out to be unbiased – you have to look at his motivations – he and his family are affiliates in many MLMs – he does not go after the ones he makes money from.
The trust the industry placed in him, Keith or OH needs to be dialed back and you all need to see them for what they are, celebrity spokespeople.
The SEC did the right thing – they investigated the company and once it was clear it was nothing more than a ponzi, they took emergency action to shut it down so that losses can be contained.
And yes, most people in this will be losers. They will get back some of their money and those that made money will probably be subject to clawbacks to make the distribution of receivership funds equitable.
@Rich
Rich, that is what I was told by someone in my upline – not sure how true it is but…………. worth a shot and the only way to find out is to call them or stop in and check it out.
Hopefully it is true – will help a few people anyway including me!!
I was told the banks know about this and are being helpful – BOA is one who is not quite as helpful and you have to say it was lost or stolen. Again, this is NOT GOSPEL – just what I have been told and thought it was worth passing on to anyone who joined after July 6!
Rich, that time frame I believe is correct…I was new then and wasn’t getting paid yet so it kind of went over my head, although it did seem odd.
It was odd, not because they were switching to third party payers but odd from the practical level. I mean if I wss going to close out a bank account, I wouldn’t do so until all of the checks I had written had cleared, give it another 30 to 60 days, and then do so. But I bought into the explanation that there would be less fraud if third payers were involved, ie STP, Payza, NxPay.
Made sense to me till I tried to get set up with them. Nightmarish! In fact, on my list of things to do is go in cancel all credit cards, NxPay, Solid Trust, Payza accounts and change the bank accounting that was associated with them.
Don’t trust these scum bags not to sell my identity for $5.
Also, I think I do need to clarify something…for those of you who are so quick to call those of us in Zeek stupid, etc., I own it. But I’m sure there are other people who are not as thick-skinned as me and in our defense, I will say that all of the people I know who are in it are not MLM’s.
Only one person in my upline that I know personally has been and he is a very reputable man, the reason we came into Zeek. I normally am cynical, believe it or not, but because I saw the money he was making I bought in.
You have to keep in mind all of the people I know, with few exceptions, are struggling business people who have no free time on our hands. I was working 40 to 50 hours a week, still am, at my biz…my husband works 70 hours a week.
The Zeek stuff is what I did at night, weekends….so I barely had time to keep balls in the air, sometimes posting my ads at the last minute. (Got my son and daughter into it, too, and was doing all of ours some nights).
So, none of the people I know are stupid…in fact, I’d like to see sone of the folks who sit around and do nothing but blog all day, accomplish what we do in a day.
We are all just plain old hard working, hoping that we were on the ground floor of like Amway. So, try not to judge. “Judge not lest ye be judged.”
Well said ZeekNoMore.
A lot of us work and just wanted a little bit more money to survive……. not greedy – just to be a bit comfortable in this lousy economy of ours!!
@Zeeknomore
With all due respect in any given week I put in 70-100 hours a week on my blogs. These things do not research, write, publish and moderate themselves.
I know a lot of people think running a blog is like having a Facebook account, but that’s simply not the case.
I might hold Dooly’s feet to the fire as part of my ongoing analysis and commentary on the Zeek issue, but when it comes to blogging I cut him slack with the blog over the last few days because I know the immense pressure anyone who blogs about Zeek over the past few days has been through.
BehindMLM alone has served over 250,000 visitors in the past 72 hours alone and even now my email server is still buggered (I think my server has temporary blocked emails originating from the blog due to too many coming in at once).
The gf has had it up to here these last few days with the time I’ve pumped into the blog but appreciated that this was simply something that had to be covered “for the records” in the years to come. As it stands I’ve had roughly 8 hours sleep in 3 days.
Mind you, I do what I do because it’s what I love doing and I have a passion for it, so I don’t expect any sympathy or what not and I’m certainly not complaining – but please don’t attempt to trivialise the running of a blog by portraying it as something so diminishingly easy.
On the plus side I’m going to sleep like a baby tonight now that things have died down! Next week is a new week and there’s always plenty of stuff happening in MLM to blog about!
Revisiting Troy’s Response:
This answer bothers me. He’s not saying he believes Zeek is a ponzi…he’s saying he believes the SEC believes zeek is a ponzi.
Very subtle, but I see right through it. He’s still trying to protect his image. Here’s a couple more deflections he made to me in an email:
Troy, you are still living in denial. We do know the math and we know the truth. You’re not going repair your credibility by going down this road.
Man up and say you f***ed up! Those 2 arguments above are rediculous!
Does anyone know what month in 2011 Zeekrewards started having affiliates? My upline tried selling me in August/September and I am trying to find out how close he is to the top. Thanks
Thank you “ALL” for taking some of your precious time to be concern for society. Gives me faith that there are still so many awesome people in this world.
Oz, Chang, Jimmy, e, Chris, and so many others deserve and award. My award to them is paying it forward. Love to meet you oneday. May god continue to give you strength, courage, and kindness.
Maybe you ought to get some sleep since you seemed to over react a bit to my comment. It wasn’t directed at anyone in particular and if you haven’t called anyone stupid, then the shoe doesn’t fit. I applaud and thank you for your hard work.
I in no way minimize your contribution…only wish I had found you before. But I didn’t know enough to know I didn’t know. My apologies if I offended anyone who truly contributes here.
It was my frustration and own defense mechanism at work to not stand by and make my point about the fact that we are not stupid…again, apologies…
I’m still waiting for another video from Troy Dooly about Zeek… Looks like the last one came out before it was called a ponzi and shut down… I see him answering comments… that’s about all.
Not Official but there may have been a sighting of Dawm in Ecuador hiding in a palm tree behind some coconuts counting her profits.
On another note I just cashed in all my zeek points on flippa to purchase both zeek sites. If I win the bid I may offer up to 3% daily profit.Wish me luck.
Here’s another Troy reply to one of his victims:
I’m not sure how you can stand by all the reporting you had done on Zeek? All of those victims stood by your reporting too.
I read in a report on Forbes I believe, zeek was making 5 mil a day…..off of what!? Definitely not affiliates?
I know they were shitty at taking those monthly fees too, I put in $10 in April and there has never been another payment taken out, also never sent them any bid money, after seeing that calculator I knew there was no way they could keep up…
23 mil in 2 years? Yeah right…lol!
Let me start by saying that this “Behind MLM” web site is a good as it gets. I’ve been coming to this site regularly for the past six months. This site is heads and shoulders above the MLM Watchdog web site and all other MLM news sites for industry advocacy and news reporting and investigating.
My hat is off to Oz and the work he does. Good job, Oz!
I’m reading all of these postings, and found it interesting to read that a few ANMP big wigs (like Troy Dooly) were being paid by Zeek. But it’s not surprising. Not surprising at all.
ANMP (Association of Network Marketing Professionals) is total B.S. Any network marketer who gives ANMP and it’s leaders any credibility is an idiot. Joining ANMP is a total waste of money. ANMP all smoke and mirrors, it’s all “buddy buddy” crap.
The ANMP is like a bunch of dogs all pissing on the same fire hydrant, then all saying how wonderful it smells.
For example, after the 2011 ANMP “convention” was held, some of the top ANMP people wrote that “if you didn’t attend [the convention] you were wrong”. Those same ANMP leaders wrote on their blogs and websites that “the top MLM leaders who attended the ANMP convention represented over 3 million distributors from around the world”.
So from reading the hype, one would think that the convention was a huge success.
It’s all a lie. The group photo of the event shows that only 62 people attended. And all of the other photos presented just validate the FACT that only 4-5 dozen people attended.
I even made a call to the company that filmed the event and they said it was less than 70 people attending. The guy who did most of the videoing said, “IT WAS BORING” and that he almost fell asleep many times.
Those same photos show that VERY FEW of the MLM industry’s true top earners did NOT attend the ANMP convention in 2011. In fact, by my count, at least 25 of the arrogant assholes who did attend the ANMP convention aren’t with any company at all.
The photos of the 2011 ANMP convention are very telling. Looks like a bunch of lounge lizards all getting together with their plastic and styrofoam sippy cups to slobber on each other and tell each other how great and wonderful they are.
Check out the photos and try not to laugh.
https://plus.google.com/photos/101833046541118763521/albums/5581363993827124529?banner=pwa
Any one want to bet that soon after I post this, that those photos of the 2011 ANMP convention are taken down????? Ha ha ha!!! I’m surprised that the photos were even put up, as the photos tell the truth about ANMP and it’s rinky-dink pathetic convention.
FURTHERMORE if the ANMP convention really was attended by those “top leaders” who represent “over 3 million distributors”, then logic dictates that those top leaders would have told their downlines to “check out the photos” of the convention. But the counters on the photos show that only 30-70 people have viewed those photos.
There should have been THOUSANDS of people viewing the photos if indeed the distributors attending represented over 3 million distributors.
So the point is that the 2011 ANMP convention was sparsely attended, and then afterwards some industry leaders flat out LIED about how big it was.
So to promote the 2012 ANMP convention, the same hype was used before and then after the convention. It was all lies and bull shit.
I would LOVE to see some photos of the 2012 ANMP convention, but haven’t found any. I’d bet a million dollars that those photos would show that only few people attended, just as in 2011.
I can’t wait for the false hype that will be used to try to get people to attend the 2013 ANMP convention. What a waste of time and money!!!
It all boils down to the fact that ANMP is just a bunch of cronies. Troy Dooley is one of them. And starting today and forever, don’t believe one damn word that comes out of Troy’s mouth. And don’t believe one thing that comes out of ANMP. All those assholes are in bed together, and that’s a fact.
Check out Dooly’s video to invite people to the 2012 ANMP gathering. It’s a joke, as is Dooly.
http://www.theanmp.org/anmp/index.html
Network marketers . . . you are on your own. Use your own good judgement and common sense. Just because a guy like Dooly puts up a web site and calls himself a “leader” and “advocate” and puts an American Flag behind him doesn’t mean he’s honest, wise, etc.
Avoid ANMP like the plague. It can’t do one damn thing for you to help you with your business.
There’s some honest and trustworthy leaders in the industry, and Dooly and his buddies at ANMP aren’t among them.
ANMP should fold right now. Just shut down. And Dooly should disappear and find some other industry to schmuck for a buck. That ANMP would have Dooly on its board tells you just how pathetic ANMP really is.
Think about it . . .
Out of curiosity, their seems to be a lot of victims outside of the U.S. Do U.S citizens or residents get priority over them in recovering losses?
I just found out about this Zeekler after it was shut down and reading everything, I am shocked that people could be fooled, but I know desperation and greed can blind people.
Oz and K Chang tag teamed on Zeek Rewards like in a world wrestling match …
ZW and Dooly swing for the fences. The crowd cheers. Oz and K Chang duck under Zeek and Dooly’s arms and double kick Zeek, while Dooly runs under the ropes and out of the ring to taunt ZW’s opponents.
Oz and K Chang beat the crap out of Zeek while Zeek extends a hand out to tag Dooly in. Dooly tags Zeek’s hand, jumps in the ring, and gets double leg kicked out of the ring again by Oz and K Chang.
The crowd roars.
Then out of Nowhere comes the SEC and Secret service from the dressing room to the loud screams of the fans.
K Chang runs behind and squats behind Zeek, Oz bounces off the ropes, runs across the ring and cracks Zeek with a flying double leg kick, the SEC and Secret Service each grab Zeeks legs and apply a painful figure-4 leg lock, as Dooly extends a hand for the tag back in.
It’s too late.
The ref counts Zeek out at 10 as Zeek bangs the canvas and screams for mercy.
It’s Over! And the crowd goes wild!
Beer, chairs, soda pop, cell phones, nuts and hot dogs fly into ring as a fight breaks out amongst the crowd.
Zeek must be escorted out of the ring for its own safety.
Briefly, Dooly is nowhere to be seen.
@Doug K
I belive victims outside the U.S. has the same rights as victims inside the U.S., but they will have to send in claims and documentation.
The reason why people could be fooled?
“Zeek didn’t FEEL like a scam. It felt real, like real money being paid to the backoffice each day, and where you could see your money grow from day to day”.
So it wasn’t easy to detect when you were right in the middle of it. It was easier to detect from the outside.
There’s STILL some people believing it was a real business, and that it will come back with some “minor changes” in the compensation plan. 🙂
Admittedly when I first posted a few hours ago (never usually do this but finding it good catharsis), I didn’t read Oz’s analysis or in fact didn’t even know who was running this forum. I just wanted to have my say and couldn’t get on Troy’s site so found this one.
Since I was corrected by Oz in an earlier comment that I kind of blew off blogging, I realized I needed to read/explore further. First of all, thank you, Oz, for what you are doing to try to make the world a better place!!!!
I’m blown away by your analysis of all the facts about Zeek in the last months. While I was in lala land posting ads to earn nonexistent RPP points, you were doing the story behind the story.
Thanks to the rest of you as well who have stuck to your guns, despite intense criticism. I have gone through a similar fight…different set of circumstances but I get it. I know the courage and conviction it takes.
So, you can count ZeekNoMore as an ally when you are speaking the truth.
I was reading some sites, and they seem to claim that people where never promised the VIP had any value, that their was no 1.5% return promised, and that they knew it could go to 0, and the points would earn nothing and be worth nothing.
Technically that’s true. I’m friends with the person who signed me in and he was honest about the fact that there were no guarantees. But we all knew it was an investment…that part was kind of implied “nod and wink” stuff.
Like who really reads the fine print of legal disclaimers? They’re everywhere. I mean, none of us would buy anything if we read all the fine print.
It was a risk..I was willing to take it. Thank GOD the only people who signed in under me were people I was totally honest with and knew it was what it was, no guarantees. We were on the ground floor of something big is what we thought.
Best and most Honest assessment!!!!!!!!!!!
There are some people still boasting about the Zeek in their emails and postings. Hope they will be compelled to spit the money out. Here is an example from an upline named …. to a down line named …. This is copied from that upline’s email as part of downline’s blog post. Here are the snippets:
Source: ibosocial.com/unclejohn/blog.aspx?blogid=127354
“Wordsmithing”. Someone probably believes people joined Zeek for the pure JOY of buying sample bids and give them away, and the income opportunity wasn’t important at all. 🙂
Zeek didn’t sell BIDS. They sold the dream of making money with little or no effort, with a plausible story connected to it, something people could believe in as a “money generator”.
It was a scam, with fake money paid to the backoffice each day, and very little real money to support it. And the real money they had came 98% from the affiliates themselves.
We’re not trying to make the world become a better place, getting rid of poverty around the world, solve national debt crisis nor discover intelligent life in the Universe. 🙂
We’re trying to deliver information, where parts of it derives from the users themselves, and deliver a platform for “sharing information”. (Or something like that, I’m not running this blog).
So usually it should be relatively boring to read, unless you’re looking for exactly that kind of information.
Since they knew the return could go to zero, and since their are no profits, then the returns are zero. So they lost nothing then. They got what they paid for worthless points.
So when do the SEC begin paying money to the innocents? What happens to the tax stuff now? No records, no nothing. No documentation. No 1099. Zeek is gone.
In the end, no one really got hurt from Zeek because SEC gonna pay everything back to the innocent anyways.
Too many people had blind faith in their upline…in Troy Dooly, in the Dollar…and were unwilling to be objective…
My faith is in Proverbs 24:19 – 21 Do not fret because of evil men or be envious of the wicked,for the evil man has no future hope, and the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change.
What is their to pay back, apparently these people knowing bought worthless points. They don’t deserve anything back, they got what they deserved.
The executive staff of Zeek, those top earners who turned a blind eye, Keith Laggos, Troy Dooly and Peter Mingels are, in my opinion, a disgrace to those of us who build legitimate MLM businesses.
What is really sickening is that the latter 3, all well-respected in the MLM world (although maybe not anymore), led many sheep-les into Zeek because of their endorsement of this Ponzi pretending to be a legitimate MLM.
These guys are not that stupid and we (at least some of us!) are not stupid enough to believe that they didn’t know fully well what they were doing. GREED!
Oz, I am grateful I found your site shortly after being introduced to Zeek about 9 months ago. My red flags were up when I looked the first time and after finding BehindMLM, I told everyone who approached me about Zeek (and there were at least 20) about this site and that I believed Zeek was a Ponzi.
Frankly no one wanted to hear what I had to say. Some said they didn’t care- they were going to make a bunch of money while they could. Others said I didn’t understand this new business model.
Having had over a decade full time with legitimate MLM companies and pretty astute at identifying good companies, that didn’t even factor in to their decisions to move forward with Zeek. GREED!
One guy I know made over $40,000 with Zeek (I saw his back office) and he moved over to another up and coming penny auction where he told me you could make even more money (he got started there at $25,000 or so he said).
I asked him if he was concerned about this other company being a Ponzi- he said no- the company was not based in the US and by the time the Feds figured it out, he would have made a boatload and be long gone. GREED!
I am not normally a vindictive kind of person but I sincerely hope that all of these people will have their ill-gotten gains taken away by clawbacks from the gov’t and that criminal charges will be filed if deserved!
The gov is going to need the money- there’s going to be a lot of man-hours and big bucks invested in sorting out the potential claims from over one million affiliates. We the US taxpayers got screwed on this deal!
But now he can criticize something that’s over and done with. Tail-end charlie, cleaner-up after the fact and all that. 😉
There’s only 225 mil in RVG’s accounts with 1 million members. You do the math.
And Feds have all of Zeek’s computers. So they know exactly how much money you really put in. Not the fake points.
That’s great Smart, but I thought we kept religion out of these discussions, if you need to quote verses from your specific holy book then do that at your church as not everyone shares your specific beliefs.
Zeek Rewards forum was FULL of people spouting off about their christian religion and intertwining it with Zeek , look how that turned out. I saw many people thanking Jesus for Zeek, and how the christian god was guiding Zeek, what happened and why didn’t Jesus warn you that you were in a ponzi?
Posted on Troys newest article….
1. Why did you not see anything out of the norm, when so many critics did?
2.RVG failed the howey test badly, has your mind changed on this yet?
3. RVG is not a legit business, have you changed your mind on this yet?
4. The SEC would disagree, do you still feel this way?
5.RVG was operating well outside the norm, do you believe that now that the SEC shut them down?
6. Have you said ” I am sorry” to everyone for cheerleading RVG for so long now that is has been proven a ponzi/pyramid?
Correct. Once you started, you can’t stop. You can only keep going. There’s the analogy of riding a wild bronco. You either hold on for dear life and see how far it takes you, or get tossed off.
The amount of money they spent on “compliance” dressing, on bringing that “new staff” and all those window dressing cost money. All those IT issues and stuff cost money. If they reduce the RPP people will go 0% repurchase (i.e. cause a “run”) and it’ll be over even faster.
He’s hoping his pivot and more cult-indoctrination talk will bring in enough revenue so he can gradually reduce the RPP to a more… sustainable level. Unfortunately for him, the Feds knows about his books probably better than he does.
Darrell, you have absolutely the right to YOUR beliefs..as they did to theirs…but my point is they put blind faith not in religion but cult like group whose focus was money.
And the reason for my quote is thats what I believe in…so when people come with promises of riches from Zeek Rewards, I just say ‘Oh well, and good luck.”
Envy is what drives most MLM…folks try to get you envious of them to join their group…Envy is never a good sign religious or not…
You forgot the time I got tossed out of the ring (my hub knocked off the net for a week with a sneak attack from one of their “consultants”). 😀
First, of all, thanks to oz and k.chang, I did not got into what my friends were trying me into. Now, few points….
1. I think it is much bigger than 600 million, the reason, they have 275 million and have paid out 375 million, that comes alone to 600 million. They are running this operation since January 2011, where all costs including, bribing to marketers, advt, legal fees, payroll, 3rd party comp etc gone. One of my friend said it is over a billion.
2. Sec has only charge the co and paul for civil liability, what about the criminal charges surely this was a fraud looking to the law suit filed.
3. How come Troy and others are still not taken on by sec.
4. Why Sec waited this long? To me,,,These departments are headed by people who are not smart enough. When I first read through this website a month back, it took me about an hour to read everything and found at least 100 proofs or evidences to start the investigation.
If million people could be approached and fooled and sec and other authorities were unaware? I am also bleming AG of NC, who should be sacked and investigated for not doing his job.
5. I believe, everyone who got paid wil be liable for civil case, as they got money from some one else. For example, if you got 20,000 for your investment of 5000, you should be defendent for $20,000 and will be plaintif for $5000, where you will be in que for getting the % payout of the outcome.
OZ…..K.Chang….please give your input on these points.
I thank this site for saving me.
Pretty much why I asked him straight up, but I didnt get a straight answer.
If any money is refunded, my hope is the SEC will give $ back only to those who had not requested cash and not to those who had already earned a boatload.
I guess Paul Burk’s “stellar reputation” was less important to him than fleecing his customers.
As far as I know, restitution has no “priority”, but all business must be conducted in English. We’ll know more when the restitution program comes online.
I am confused if the RRP is set to 0, then no money can be taken out right? Since a 0 RRP means their are no earnings from the points, and therefore nothing to cash out.
Is there a list of the 200 insiders? I want to steer clear of anything they promote in the future and make sure they are not welcome in the company I represent.
I am definitely steering clear of anything the people named associated with Zeek represent or promote.
On another note, what happens to the money that was deposited by Zeek into NxPay (one of Zeek’s on again off again eWallet) but NxPay not honoring that money by allowing the members to withdraw?
Will the SEC be clawing that money back from NxPay? Can NxPay run away with it?
The “caveat emptor” fallacy.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/bad-argument-caveat-emptor-disclaimer.html
Then you can expect LAWSUITS. 😉
I asked him a straight question, expecting a straight answer. He will not say zeek was a ponzi
Doubt they can keep it. It legally belongs to Zeek/RVG. eWallet folks are keeping the money as hedges against chargebacks.
Now that there’s no more chargebacks (nobody’s paying Zeek now!) The receiver will be withdrawing the money to a US bank soon. It may take a week or two.
He wasn’t hired to advise members on legality of Zeek. He was hired as a tax celebrity to offer some carefully worded vague advice on how to prep taxes.
If you pay enough you can hire anybody.
In the pre-Internet days, Bob Eubanks was hired to do an ad for a 1-900 singles hotline. He thought he’s doing a regular TV infomercial, and he pocketed like $15000 for a couple hours.
He never realized the people who hired him used that video to pitch the idea to investors to put in money, something he never agreed to. The stuff failed.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/bad-argument-association-with-authority.html
@K Chang and @DrK – I believe having read the SEC documents that that should be an asset of Rex Ventures and subject to the receivership.
Therefore, the receiver will put that money into the rest of the funds he accumulates and once all the money is accounted for distribute it fairly among the victims.
On another note, I just left a comment for Troy. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know Zeek was a ponzi as he may not have been privy to the financials or overheard any mentions from Dawn or Paul that monies for payouts came from new subscriber monies.
I said I’d be available to speak with him if he wanted the truth from someone who was there, heard it and saw Dan make payouts that seemed suspicious.
I hope he takes me up on the offer. I hate to think he truly knew this.
@smart
I would consider blind faith in anything to be a bad thing.
So I am not sure what “blind” faith is but it is not something I would think would be a good thing. Anytime you are making a life changing decision about finances, religion etc. I would think you would want it to be supported by proof and evidence.
NC AG fbook site, STILL being posted on by zeekhead cultists….
Living in denial….pathetic minds at work…
Troy Dooly is a silly and not-so-bright fellow who has been shlepping in the MLM industry, passing himself off as some “expert”, while making a few bucks here and there. If he didn’t know Zeek is a ponzi, then he’s a fool and an idiot. Of course he knew, but with Zeek putting money in his pocket, he sure wasn’t going to say anything.
Watching Dooly speak is comical. He’s not good at what he does, and it’s always amazed me how much credibility people have given him.
Since MLM is all about “word of mouth marketing”, then every one should mouth these words: “Troy Dooly is not to be trusted. Ever.”
It would be great for the industry if Dooly left and went elsewhere to try and make a buck. I suggest he get into the fish bait industry, as it’s a slimey and stinky business where he’d fit in well.
Another good thing for the industry would be for the Association of Network Marketing Professionals to shut down. It’s a do-nothing group of ego-driven ass-wipes who all think their shit don’t stink.
So many of these MLM experts are nothing of the sort. They are NOT experts. And they do NOT know everything. And so many of them, while claiming to be “honest” and “religious” folks, are as crooked as they come.
Again to Oz . . . keep up the great work. As you’ve continually exhibited throughout this site, you are to be trusted.
Comment on Troy’s responses.
I personally don’t think it’s evasion, but attempt in his mind to work out the conflict between what he believed (Zeek is fine), vs. the reality (Zeek is scam). He’s at the “bargain” stage of 5 stages of grief/loss. However, you can bounce between phases before hitting “acceptance”.
Playing amateur psychoanalyst again… I think his somewhat evasive response to “Do you believe Zeek is a Ponzi”, the “According SEC complaint”, is an indication that he no longer knows what to believe. It’s a phenomenon called “cognitive dissonance”.
http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/f/dissonance.htm
If he’s still in denial, he’d have replied “SEC is wrong.” I think he moved past it already. He’s probably more angry at himself and he’s trying to bargain with himself.
He probably *thought* he came clean before, and he thought he’s free of bias, but he’s still biased, he just didn’t see it. AND he was hoodwinked, if he didn’t know about “founder’s club”.
In other words, he was a “judas goat” too, and a REALLY brightly-painted one.
YES… I would love to see a list of the Top 200 posted somewhere. People need to keep in mind that those involved in Zeek only fall into a few categories… Crooks, greedy opportunists who didn’t care who they hurt and innocent, but NAIVE people who had no “business sense.”
I’m sure no one would consider any of them a credible “visionary,” “thought leader” or whatever the buzzword of the day is. People should know who they are so as to know who they should NOT be blindly following.
Don’t get me wrong… many, I’m sure, are kind hearted people who had good intentions…. but you know which road is paved with THOSE.
I don’t think such a list is available anywhere, but I’m pretty sure the ex-ASD folks, like Disner and Gilmond and Napier and so on would be on the list.
Perfectly said Pat. 100% agreed!
The latest interaction on Troy’s blog…
gen3enz1 asked Troy:
Troy replied:
Troy seems to ignore the part about the 1.5% daily compound profit rate being simply made up. Ignore the 800-lb gorilla in the room. “No, that is not an elephant.”
Unbelievable. Well, not really based on Troy’s denials to date.
I personally see four types, from worst to least:
1) Head scammers: Burks and company (Darryl Douglas and probably Dawn Wright-Olivares, who helped him come up with this compounding plan)
We knew this is wrong, but we’ll take it as long as it can run, and make MILLIONS in the process
2) Shills: first-tier, founder’s club, top affiliates
We knew this is a fake, we didn’t start it, but we’re willing to go along for the ride and make a bundle
3) Judas Goats: second tier
We don’t know this is fake, but we believe our upline (shills) and we’re making money
4) Sheep: bottom rung
We don’t know this is fake, we believe our upline and put in our own money, but we’ve yet to make any
@gen3benz…I hope that all those petitioning the SEC and NC AG saying that “they don’t believe Zeek was a scam and please let them operate”…I hope those people that signed that petition don’t get one red cent paid back to them!
Them taking that money would make them hypocrites.
If Troy did not know about Founders Club, then he did not know. He apparently was not privy to substantial inside council or numbers to make him qualified to defend Zeek as he did. Unless he of course was shown cooked numbers.
If he did not know about the club then in actuality he was at the minimum mislead by Paul regarding that issue along.
No need for that. He appears to have already accepted taking money from Zeek. Moreover, he had even stopped Dawn the then COO from answering a simple question, in the name of compliance, which would have revealed it’s ponziness to all, even the biggest of the zeeksters.
Furthermore, he has claimed to have the access to the money flow, customer:affiliate ratio (wasn’t it he who floated the infamous 25:1 ratio), and all the other internal workings.
There is also an amazing story to tell about the behind-the-scenes SEO efforts. One of my brethren in the SEO wars against Zeek had posted about it yesterday but I think it was spam blocked due to the anonymous proxy he was using.
I will see if I can re-post the story…
TROY…”Why Does the Network Marketing Community Shoot Our Wounded?”
Answer: Because they’re not “our wounded”. They are the “wounded” from the ponzi world and not a network marketing company as we’ve been telling you for almost a year.
I’m not shooting credible networkers, I’m shooting naive, greedy, ponzi participants that are all guilty of ripping people off.
The 200 Founders have to fall into the first two categories … probably the first.
I think it’s possible as my brother in law and I sent checks shortly after that date. After being with zeek only a month we both called our banks to see if we could stop payment on our checks.
They were able to stop the payment because the checks were never cashed by zeek. So my advice to those out there looking to get money back specifically for those that joined recently. Call your bank an see if they can put a stop payment on the check. It’s a cashiers check so u have to call the bank.
We bank with Navy federal and they stop the check immediately, the funds were back in our accounts instantly.
How can you still see a legit business with 2% supposed auction sales. The auctions were apparently not even functional. I’m questioning even how the 2% was derived.
If the Return Rate was set to ZERO, could people actually pull any money out, or cash the points in?
I pulled mine out, the payments were usually late though.
From Troy Dooly:
I have no prior experience in this other than the info I have found here (thanks btw), but don’t the actual numbers disclosed by the SEC PROVE it is a Ponzi (the percentage of $ being from affiliates, the amount in/out, the outstanding points balance exceeding by light years what could actually be paid out).
Court ruling is irrelevant, correct? Those numbers mean it IS a ponzi — the same as if there were a high resolution video of someone, face and all, walking to a store, breaking the window and walking out with stolen goods.
The court may find whatever they find because of technicalities, or however all this works, but do these numbers not make it a FACT that it is a ponzi, regardless of any legal happenings/rulings?
If that is the case, you can say noone has convicted them of being a ponzi but there is undeniable proof that they were in fact running one.
Is this the deal?
More garbage! The few affiliates who spent bids on auctions spent very few because the auctions had terrible product and basically did not work.
They struggled to get paid or even to pay, do you think many really paid $45 for a $25 Subway gift card!
Troy is the Queen of Egypt:
You know what, Troy? No court of law has “proven” OJ committed murder either. Troy Dooly = Johnnie Cochran.
Also curious that if Troy found it was right to apologize to Randy Schroeder who warned his team that Zeek was a Ponzi… why hasn’t he apologized to “the critics” who were warning the WORLD that Zeek was a Ponzi?
Yes, but there is one other big factor, the daily profit share that was completely invented!
In other words:
1. If the bids were being used it would be personal volume.
2. And then profit had to be paid on actual revenue from the bids.
Troy is focusing on #1 for his “personal volume” and “bonus pool” tests while conveniently ignoring #2 which is that it was all a scam from the get go.
Yes!
Can someone explain how cashing out the points work with the 90 days expiration?
If you purchase 10,000 points, after 45 days can you cash out those 10,000 points for $10,000? After 91 days I assume you can’t and you lose all of those 10,000 points?
Well, maybe Troy will be called into court as an “expert” witness to testify as to how Zeek isn’t a ponzi.
Wow – I commented on Troys blog and he immediately said I should watch what I say because I would be criminally liable for being a part of the ponzi.
Hmmm…I never wrote code for Zeekler’s applications only did their graphics and helped with marketing efforts until I saw suspicious behaviors. Then I quit, then I reported what I knew to both the NC AG and to OZ.
Oh right, and I never was an affiliate, invested money or made money from Zeek. I’m hard pressed to how I would liable for anything other than actually trying to let people know what I saw and suspected.
The only money I ever received from Zeekler was under $10K for design and marketing services rendered between 2010 and May 2012.
I am more than happy to be forthright with anyone about what I saw and what I know and I do not consider it insider information as I was not insider – I was literally just a tech consultant.
The server guys from Miami were also there for that meeting. Are they insiders too? As soon as I suspected something fishy I went to people I thought were unbiased and they all proved to be very biased – they said I had no proof, all I had were suspicions and it could be sour grapes.
It’s like you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Note: “not my experience”.
Sure he can. Unless he also becomes a defendant.
Do Not trust anything Troy Dooley says, he’s already led enough people off a cliff. Take notes of everything you have done and know, and leave it at that. Y
ou could NOT be held criminally liable unless you were actively involved in deceiving…designers and coders are simply contractors.
They could manage to pay for 5-7 days.
The math:
3 billion VIP points * 1.5% = 45 million per day
$225 million in banks / 45 million = 6 days
@SOURCE – Troy doesn’t know what he’s talking about here. Trust me, I have a legal background. You aren’t liable for anything.
Furthermore, if the Feds contact you at all, it will be to testify for the prosecution. Usually, contractors and support staff simply sign affidavits and the prosecution uses that as part of the “weight of the evidence” and rarely are support staff asked to testify unless they were the only eye witness to a critical piece of informtaion.
And if anything, you saved more people from joining this fraud by the nature of asking questions and Zeek management blackballing you.
Think about it, if Zeek had actually taken your advice, and they made the back office, UI, and web design changes, just think how many more victims they would have sucked in with the slickness of the site? The fact that they ignored you and left it ugly looking means fewer victims. A bit of a twisted view. 🙂
But if they set it to 0% Then 3 Billion VIP Points = $0 per day, and after 90 days the 3 Billion Points go to 0 Points, and they are still around.
The way the system works, you CANNOT cash out points at all. You bought bids, and those “points” act as shares to profits. 1.5% would give you, say, $150 for 10000 points. You then choose how much of that $150 you give back to Zeek by “repurchase of bids”. Say, you repurchase 80%, or $120, then you now have $30 in your “cash” account at Zeek, and 10120 points. If you repurchase 100 percent, then you have 10150 points. If you do 100% cashout, then you keep 10000 points, but you get $150 in Zeek’s cash account you can request withdrawal later.
If you repurchase 100%, then your point balance would build up quickly, but no money would leave the system. Points have 90 day expiration, so on day 91, 10000 points just go “poof”.
Yes, the critics know exactly how the system works.
Well you can never draw out the original amount. The original amount is good for 90 days to draw your daily interst on. So if you invested 10,000, then on day 2 you would have 150.00 based on 1.5% for that day that you could sweep to your e-wallet if you didnt want to reinvest it.
Day 3 you wold have another 150.00 if the daily rpp was 1.5% and so on.
Most people kept reinvesting the daily profits and compounding them. Yes the original 10,000 would drop off on day 91 but if you had reinvested you would still have approx. 20,000 left on day 91.
Probably didn’t explain it very well but I am not high enough on kool-aid to explain it properly.
In that case, I’d suggest contacting the SEC investigators immediately and offer to testify for the prosecution. 🙂
@Jimmy
Once I read the damning word “arbitrary” in the complaint, all other arguments have no merit. Endgame. Illegal
He does know it’s illegal unless he actually believes the SEC is incorrect about an arbitrary reurn. No way he will answer this with his controversial relationship in the middle of an investigation.
Troy is probably speaking for himself, not you. In other words, that is why he is not admitting anything, because he could be held liable in lawsuits for leading people into this thing, so he is making sure not to admit anything publicly.
Will someone please clue Troy in to the fact that this was never about penny auctions and that Zeek’s penny auctions were merely a cover story for the massive ponzi investment scheme?
Nobody ever questioned whether penny auctions were legal or not (though it appeared there were lots of shady practices in the Zeekler auctions with bid inflation and possible bots bidding). This always had to do with the pyramid/ponzi scheme behind Zeek Rewards.
@K Chang – I contacted the NC AG, the SEC never contacted me. I don’t have nay information they do not already have.
I was nothing more than a consultant. I never was an affiliate, nor did I make money as an affiliate. i was clearly paid for services rendered on a contract basis.
The AG was aware of me as they were of the many other people who complained. I am sure if I had info they needed, the SEC would have contacted me. And they are still able to.
I would be more than happy to testify for the prosecution if they ever called me but the fact Troy acts as though I could in some way be responsible for the ponzi is outrageous and laughable.
As if someone (a contractor) noticing something suspicious and reporting it is proof in and of itself that they were involved is exactly the reason why most whistleblowers do not come forward.
It really just shows exactly what type of people you are dealing with here. These are people not interested in truth but rather only interested in perpetuating the “truth” they helped create and the “truth” that protects their own interests. Very sad.
There was no UPSIDE for me in telling what I knew yet I did it anyway. I did it because it was what I thought was right. And I am completely open to anyone from here or the SEC or the AG to contact. I’m not hiding. If they need me they will call me.
So if they lowered the return to 0.5% a day which they could, then after another 91 days your account would only have around 11000 points left, and after another 91 days it would only have 6500 left.
So what I am understanding from all this is that there was never any global bidding happening on actual retail goods generating a significant portion of money to Zeek’s accounts?
Chang is right…and I have the same question as Troy, you knew about this crap and said nothing to the authorities?!
Straight from Troy Dooly….
It is kinda of funny. Oz reported the FBI locked the office. The reality is it was Greg Caldwell wearing his Florida Association of Private Investigators (FAPI)shirt with the badge on it.
Did anyone ever question how complex their math was? That should have been at least one of the tip offs this was fishy.
I mean, I have a Harvard degree and I was always baffled by the math. I can’t tell you how many times I questioned if I must be stupid that I couldn’t follow their math or I was stupid for not investing.
I guess in the end, it came down to common sense. None of the sense in this enterprise was common at all.
@Iktomni Luta – please read my comments, I did, as soon as I suspected contact the NC AG. They have my info. Of course when I had suspicions went to 2 top leaders in Zeek, then to NC AG then to Oz.
So, if the SEC needs me, I am available and they know where to contact me. I did all that I thought was necessary.
Back in May, it never occurred to me this was an SEC issue so I only contacted the NC AG, but if the SEC contacts me I can certainly provide them with what I suspected, why I suspected and whom I suspected.
Source, I have just now read your thread of posts. You are very brave indeed. Thank you for doing the right thing. I’m unclear as to whether you have officially contacted the SEC, FBI or whoever else is involved in the investigation but if you are willing to do that, no doubt it would helpful to make a case.
It would seem to me that you should be careful about making details public as far as names and specific examples of wrongdoing for several reasons. First, the prosecutors don’t want the Defendants to know all about their case until discovery has to be made.
Second, if these people are as diabolical as they appear to be, you may want to consider some of them may try to retaliate in some way. I’m not trying to scare you but this is big stuff. Just watch your back.
If indeed this proves to be the biggest Ponzi to date as published in some news articles, then you can be sure publicity is only beginning. It won’t be swept under the rug like some of the smaller ones. It’s thanks to whistle blowers like you that many people are spared further hurt. Thank you!
When you waved the NMBJ article without disclosing who Laggos was, and that Dawn wrote that article, You WERE NOT BALANCED. You compromised your values, Sir.
If you have convinced yourself that this was fair to unaware viewers, you again prove why the mlm culture is about as credible as a “grimy” Grit magazine tossed by the suckered newsboys.
When I was a kid I rode a bus from East Tennessee to St. Louis for an AL Williams convention. They were throwing T shirts and singing the Flintstones like a much of goons. I may as well been riding a bus to watch a televangelist in a white suit, or headed to Waco, or Tom Cruise’s house.
I was only in 6th grade and I saw through the siiliness. Most of those giddy and mostly redneck people went back to their mundane lives within a few days and never made money in insurance. MLM was vastly tabloid then; it is now.
By the way, Troy. Wear a damn tie to court.
@zeekNoMore Thank you. I did contact the NC AG, but will reach out to the contacts listed for the SEC on Monday to make sure they have my statement as well.
I’m not sure how much more I can offer them in that Paul already took a deal but I can provide them with whatever they think would be useful.
I also want to state that I have had the chance to converse w Troy on his blog and I actually have come to believe he was taken in by Dawn and Paul but not a knowing participant in the fraud.
He may just be a loyal kind of guy that believed in these people like the rest of the members did.
So, regardless of if he was compensated or not, he probably did not know they were using new subscriber/subscribers monies to pay old subscribers/investors.
When I was there – there was so much I saw that was suspicious that it was hard to separate the ponzi from other illegalities.
I knew they were lying to affiliates about where money from payouts came from but I can’t say I connected that with it being a ponzi.
And they were lying to the affiliates about so many other things too that it was really hard to pinpoint what kind of fraud they were committing – I just knew there was fraud.
@doug
I am not sure your understanding the comp plan. Basically at 1.4% compounded daily ROI you will double your money every 90 days EVEN with the 90 day point expiration.
Even at 0.5% per day which is 182% a year, and then figure in compounding on top of that, that also would have been completely unsustainable.
Biggest ponzi in what way? Geographically, demographically, mlm?
Madoff scheme was around 64 billion. Zeek 600 million.
Madoff estimated actual losses $18 billion. Estimated losses in Zeek?
0.5% per day would collapse the program because when you add in 90 day points expiration, everyone’s points would move towards zero and no new investors would invest.
The sad truth is even with 3 billion outstanding VIP points, at 0.50% and 100% cash out, Zeek would be on the hook for $237M in payouts after 30 days, and eventually $748M in total cash outs if left to expire.
So all of those Zeek supporters who think you can just lower the RPP rate and everything would be just fine, Zeek couldn’t even support a drop to 0.5%.
If Paul Burks was “honestly” calculating the daily RPP, it would have dropped below 1.1% long ago and the Ponzi scheme would have collapsed long ago. He had no choice but to maintain an artificially high 1.5% rate to keep new investors pouring money in.
All of Troy Dooly’s analysis on the RPP is irrelevant when he refuses to recognize what the critics have called out from DAY ONE – that there is no possible way the RPP daily rate of 1.5% can be ANYTHING BUT A FRAUD.
Zeek takes the crown as largest number of victims at 1 million.
Estimated losses in Zeek is about 375 mil, I think.
i did, it was a timing issue
My primary computer crashed so I don’t have my special spreadsheet, but 0.5% is not enough to offset the expiration of points, so either they get rid of 90 day expiration, or peole would optimize the plan so they get money out before 90 day expiration is up.
It ain’t sustainable either.
Is there any tie that would not clash with his t-shirts?
And the American flag is not to be used as clothing.
My math was wrong above. I based it on buying in with $3 billion, need to account for point expiration on day 2 since these are existing points for the most part are not in their first 90 day window. Will recalculate.
@Chang
Zeek gets the sucker crown. Zeek may end up being a reference for logic and reason debate for many years, as much as it will be for business and schemes discussion.
And the Leaves that are Green Turn to Brown…MLM penny auctions
(An Open Letter to BehindMLM.com from Jeff Babener)
© Jeff Babener
Oz, MlmLegal.com, congratulations to BehindMLM.com on your investigatory skills and continuing analysis on MLM penny auction programs.
For a non U.S attorney, you have demonstrated keen insight into issues of Ponzi, Pyramid and Securities. We have represented leading direct sellng companies for more than 25 years, and we recognize “your journey”.
Apart from some potential lottery issues, can a MLM penny auction service be properly marketed through MLM/Network Marketing? Yes.
However, the revenue stream for payment of commissions should derive from bid sales to real retail customers, who in turn use the bids.
On the other hand, a program fueled by reps, who pay $10,000 for so called sample or giveaway bids, and recruit other reps to do the same, from which the commission pool is paid, is really not the marketing of a service… Rather it is payment into a pyramid scheme.
Ponzi and Pyramid schemes are, by case law recognition, viewed as unregistered passive investment securities offerings that carry deserved civil and criminal penalties for active promoters, whether they are company organizers or merely conflicted cheerleader media publishers with financial interests.
Such schemes really have nothing to do with Network Marketing, Mlm or Direct Selling. Hiding behind terms of legitimacy is a great disservice to a global direct selling industry that markets in excess of $150 billion in real products and services through 90 million plus direct sellers.
Such programs taint the recruiting environment and siphon finance and talent from “real” direct selling companies.
In an era when NY Stock Exhange companies, such as Herbalife and NuSkin, face short seller challenges in explaining the legitimate Network Marketing model, scams and schemes that parade as Nework Marketing merely confuse global markets as to the legality of legitimate Network Marketing companies.
Hiding such schemes behind terms like “freedom”, “entrepreneurial spirit”, “the American dream” or “free market capitalism” is an unfortunate high jacking of a truly major indigenous American business marketing model.
Unfortunately, too many MLM penny auction models may fit the illegitimacy tests:
1. Pyramid: Large upfront cash investments by distributors, who realistically pay for the right to recruit others to do the same….with a hope and prayer to make money off the subsequent recruits.
2. Ponzi: Payment of promised investment rewards to old investors with money from new investors.
3. Securities: Inducing passive investments with the expectation of return arising from the managerial efforts of the promoter or third parties. In addition, pyramids and Ponzi schemes, by definition, are also securities.
You have a story to tell to corporate owners of existing and startup companies. On behalf of MLMLegal.com, we invite you, at our expense, to speak at our next national conference in Las Vegas, October 25, 26, 2012, “Starting and Running the Successful MLM Company”.
It is the 61st such national conference sponsored by our law firm, Babener & Associates. Please let us know. Over the years we have started many global companies, including U.S. operations for Nikken, Usana, Melaleuca, Amazon Herbs, and advised major companies such as Avon, NuSkin, etc. Many such companies have started at this conference.
We will follow up with a more detailed analysis of MLM penny auctions at mlmlegal.com
Jeff Babener,
Babener & Associates
I wonder how much Dr. Keith Laggos knew what was going on? He certainly said alot on his call several weeks back.
I wonder why people haven’t given him hell as well. I think people who were is Zeek should be furious with the man.
Source, we study MLM, so it was very easy to spot Zeek as a ponzi. My first clue was their product (penny auction), I was ask to study it and it was clear that it was a joke.
It meant money was not produce by their auction. It meant the company was supported by its affiliates. So Troy as a MLM expert had no excuse for not seen it.
Source, I do appreciate your comments, except do not excuse Troy, because he is guilty. Troy for defending Zeek, put down the MLM industry. He was not taken by Dawn and Paul, the koolaid was not so strong, unless they put some tequila on it-).
He was question by us on this website. My opinion, he should step down from the MLM industry.
?!?!
What choo talkin bout Willis?
He’s talking about his assumptions again.
He’s assuming that the ‘database of customers’ is worth something. I seriously doubt it’s worth anything as it’s far more likely that everybody just dumped bids on fake “customers”.
Wonder if ZCustomers is gonna get a subpoena? 😉 After all, they have a lot of $$$ arrangements with Zeek.
Madoff was in the investment industry. Zeek claimed to be in the MLM industry. This is about Zeek taking advantage of the little people. You can’t compare both of them. One hurts the investment industry and Zeek hurts the MLM industry.
This is about the leaders in the MLM that blindly sponsored people into Zeek. I blame any leader that got involve in Zeek, because of them, Zeek took advantage. The MLM is about people caring for other people, and that start with the LEADER.
I took a look at Zeek. My conclusion was that I would not invite my family or friends, then it was not worth my time or reputation.
According to Troy, if Dawn “let’s say” gets charged Monday, she will likely make the SEC prove its case in trial.
Any kind of restitution would be delayed even further. It is difficult to conceive how several will avoid criminal charges by one or more entities.
@Abelyn I can appreciate that. I do not know the MLM industry at all. Never been in one. I was just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I can say the math always looked fishy to me but it wasn’t until I was at Dawn’s house I actually suspected something fraudulent.
Personally, I run my own non MLM business on the side of ethical caution. As a non MLM person I saw something very suspect so as an MLM expert, I would expect anyone holding themselves out as such would have been concerned.
I am sincerely hopeful that some of the people involved really did not know. Clearly, Paul and Dawn knew. Dan kicked off the payouts so he must have known and Alex lives in that house with dawn so he had to have known.
The math alone should have told anyone on the outside it was impossible. I have no skin in this game – I was never a cheerleader or an affiliate and I am no longer a contractor so I have no place in excusing anyone but I do sincerely hope that some of these people did not knowingly invite new affiliates in knowing it was a scam.
Either way, they have all had their reputations, expertise and overall ethics impugned. And while that may not bring comfort to those that lost money, I hope it prompts them to do the right thing from now on.
@Abelyn
You can compare them. Both had suckers. Both had fake investments.
This is more about individual responsibity than MLM.
@Source
Do yourself a favor and do not use the term ” skin in this game.” This legitimizes the fact you Unfortunately had to work around those crooks, and that you must be credible source! 🙂
Just got an email with this headline from Troy Dooly: “Breaking MLM Penny Auction News: Zeek Rewards aka Rex Venture Inc Opening In Europe”
@MB got it – I only meant that I had no money invested in the MLM because I know nothing about MLMs. I never invested (and believe me they tried to get me to) because it never made sense to me.
I didn’t mean in the way it could have been interpreted. Sorry. I only meant I had nothing to gain or lose from exposing any of it. I hope that clarified my choice of words.
And I honestly had no idea there was anything amiss from the time I started as a contractor in October until I was in her home in May 2012.
I mean, as a tech/marketing contractor how often d you question your client’s business practices or models?
I’ve never worked with any other company that I even looked sideways at their practices.
@Source
Just teasing you
Oh Oz, if you are trying to catch up on your sleep, wake up and bring some vomit clean up dust, because I just hurled on my computer
I wonder if the “Zeek opening in Europe” thing is more “Zeek is coming back stronger than ever” wishful thinking from the true believers.
I thought Paul Burks relinquished all ownership of Zeek to the SEC, assuming that the SEC seized all assets. I would think that it’s way too early for anyone involved in Zeek to contemplate restarting the ponzi.
I also don’t know what the laws against ponzi schemes are in different European countries, but I would assume that authorities there would be smart enough to know about a ponzi scheme shut down in the U.S. and would be keeping a very close eye on the same business if it tried to relocate there.
Troy, this is absolute bullshit. You know everything I have typed was referring to the ponzi comp plan, just keep spinning.
You’re right there is no intelligent conversation with you. No need to post on his dumpy site anymore. Troy if you read this you’re a punk and I hope you’re happy with drawing people into a ponzi.
Hmmm… thinking about this more- where did Troy Dooly get that Breaking News info from? Anonymous phone call, note on his door, email, Fed Ex delivery…? Couldn’t have been Fed Ex or the PO- they don’t deliver on Sundays! LOL
Is he trying to be the hero here and save the Sheep-les this time around, so he looks like a good guy? Hmmm….
I am going to speculate ahead of time that some knucklehead, nobody substantial or credible, posted, even planted this goofy information somewhere, and it gave Troy a chance to posture that he’s with the government and for the people by golly!
This is so ridiculous. It’s not even worth discussion, but it is entertaining. He really must be feeling the heat.
I agree with MB. I think someone is just yanking the chain of the Zeekers, either just playing with them by giving them false hope, or possibly to run an actual scam by getting Zeek victims to give them money.
At any rate, I’m sure it’s totally bogus because it says “We have paid the Fines and Penalties and We are shutting down Business for a few days and shifting our Main Office to Europe.”
I’m sure we can all see that the SEC isn’t just going to let Paul Burks pay a $4 million fine and let anyone with Zeek just go back to business as usual, albeit in another country.
Yes, Troy, this may indeed just be a rumor. If I were Troy right now, I would simply apologize that I called it wrong, and announce I’m taking a break for a few weeks, and just shut up.
Frankly, I can’t find any reference to Zeek reopening in Europe anywhere but Troy’s site, and another site which just references Troy’s site as the source. So I don’t know where he got this information, but again it’s hardly credible and probably really not worth commenting on.
I’m surprised Troy even bothered to put that bull**** on his blog without additional verification.
Given that the amount of BS he had been fed in the past year, he’s… I dunno. He’s digging a hole for himself to China.
So what will the clawbacks mean for those members who made a profit. Will they be obligated to pay every penny back? Do they go after the heavy hitters first?
I read a previous post..sorry if wrong but I believe it was K. Chang….. I know that is in the receivers hands just wondering the receiver determines who pays what.
BTW I was a member duped in zeek. I had made a profit….albeit a tiny won….and I am embarrassed of that fact. I humbly confess the errors of my ways.
I look forward to heeding all of your advice on this site in the future. Wish I listened sooner…
@notgreedy
From what I understand the SEC don’t handle the criminal side of things. The Secret Service and NC AG and supposedly one other federal agency are still investigating Zeek, so we’ll have to follow what happens there to see if any criminal charges are filed.
It’s one thing to analyse a business model and conclusively determine it’s a Ponzi scheme. Agencies are firstly reactive in nature and then once they start investigating have to start collecting evidence to back what they find.
It’s not like the SEC can just file a complaint in court alleging anything and everything, if they wan’t to convince a judge they need to be able to back it with facts grounded in evidence. This takes time to collect.
Thanks for the encouragement but please never blindly trust what’s written here. I always publish why I come to various conclusions in analysis and that’s so people can absorb and think on it themselves.
Often this leads to an expansion of understanding and analysis and we truly get to the bottom of things, othertimes it leads to corrections as something might have been misunderstood (and I don’t mean in the “but Zeek is not an investment because compliance said so” type way), which then needs to be corrected.
Never put your trust in anyone, always evaluate what they’re saying for yourself (everything published here is usually verifiable unless I’m using a protected source, but that usually won’t be analytical information in itself). Trust without verification is what got a lot of people into this mess in the first place, all they had to do was dig a little deeper.
I knocked that one back, not because I don’t sincerely appreciate the effort but because I’m not entirely sure I understood the methods details that were used (I’m not privvy to the specifics of what was being done, which is probably a good thing).
Google are pretty strict on a lot of their stuff and I wouldn’t want to risk being seen as endorsing anything as a site that I shouldn’t be. They’re a bit grey on what exactly they consider “manipulating search engine results” but they’re very clear that they don’t tolerate it.
Again, I’m not suggesting that any manipulation was done (SEO doesn’t mean blanket manipulation) but given I myself wasn’t familiar with alot of the terms described and that SEO is out of my field of interest, I thought it best not to take any chances.
Pretty much. Zeekler’s wild success was all bullshit. 2% of the daily ROI paid out to affiliates was non-affiliate money (FSC, shopping daisy (lol) and retail bids purchased with non-affiliate money…).
Troy Dooly is at least FUNNY. 🙂
1. Look at the picture:
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120817/NEWS/308179988&tc=email_newsletter?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar
2. Compare to Troy’s statements:
He forgot to mention the gun, but other than that it can of course be Gregory Caldwell signing up some new affiliates outside Zeek’s HQ, as a last attempt to get some money in before next payday. That story is highly believable. 🙂
If zeek tried to relocate it would be in Russia.
Has anyone listened to the Tom Chenault Show today? You should hear Troy. I can’t believe he is still in denial. He said he thinks the SEC’s numbers are wrong…GEEZ!
I really believe he is trying to protect himself since he lied so much. I think Troy new exactly what was going on.
http://www.gcnlive.com/mediaPlayers/odPlayer.php?program=tomChenault
If Troy was on Zeek’s payroll, is it possible that he could be brought on any type of charges?
Is there anyone with IT, web-design, database skills that could come up with a website that lists the principals of ponzis, ponzis acting Like MLMs, HYIPs acting like MLMS, and the founding circle, such as the founding 200 of Zeek…
Companies like ZeekRewards, Ad Surf Daily, PlexPay, Megaplex, Bidify, Bids that Give, Juugo and names like Paul Burk, Dawn, Are Vinje, Thomas ‘Andy’ Bowdoin, Keith Loggos, and psuedonyms such as Strosdeqoz, Manolo, Dirson Eduardo Jimenez Santana… preferably ones already convicted or proven…. unlike where I just mentioned ones likely to be proven?
Troy, if you were not a flat out conspirator, and were duped, then apologize you called it wrong by waving the NMBJ, and for all the defense you made while under a NDA and supposedly with access to inside data.
Then go hug your wife, forgive yourself, and go on a break for a few weeks. We are all only human, but don’t dig your hole deeper,Sir.
You really believe that? Come on.
I feel Troy Dooley has lost credibility in the MLM world and rightfuly so.I think he was not honest with the public. Did he get paid by Zeek to lie.?
First off, I was a member of Zeek and a Zeek supporter.
Not anymore. I was wrong.
I never was in big and didn’t get anyone else in big, but tried to help everyone I could.
The main problem, in my opinion, is not being discussed enough:
The SEC alleges that Paul Burkes arbitrarily determined the RPP award percentage everyday. It wasn’t based on 50% of incoming revenue as stated, or anything else for that matter. It was simply MADE UP.
Had it been run correctly, each and every VIP Point in the system (be it from bids purchased with external funds or those repurchased) should have been backed up by a real dollar.
However, the SEC states that with over 3 Billion VIP Points in the system, the company only had $225 million remaining. Even if you assume the company took no profit, Paul was knowingly paying out 13X what the revenue supported each and every day.
I believe the compensation plan itself was fine. Sure, we could argue that more outside revenue should have been generated (the SEC stated just 10% came from Zeekler), and that’s a valid discussion. However, that doesn’t change the fact that it was doomed from the start simply because Paul faked the RPP numbers.
Not running the business as your compensation plan states, and which your legal team and compliance officers have signed off on, and purposely putting the business into an inescapable deficit should be considered criminal. It is primarily his fault, not the compensation plan’s, that so many people are now out of money.
Also, by paying out 13X what the revenue would have allowed, it is nearly impossible that they’ll have enough money to cover everyone’s refunds.
Sad for what could have, and should have, been a great program.
John : I agree with you Mr Dooley knew better and should have known better.He is no longer a credible person.
Oz and others here thank you. I found this on Reddit from a Zeek Rewards affiliate, this absolutely shocked me:
Read it and tell me what you guys think:
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/yhagt/iama_dishonest_person_part_of_a_600_million/
I think paul burks should go in jail, for someone who is 65 years, he should enjoy his senior life instead of scamming people, now he can relax his life in jail.
I hope he looses everything. According to the court file, he needs to make sworn statement on all his business assets and personal assests, also lists all of his former/present employees, accountant, attorney, consultant in 10 days.
The court also requires him to make sworn statement on his accounting book and his income tax returns from 2010 to 2012. For sure, he will go to the jail.
Since zeekler’s daily average actual revenue is 5 million, the government should continue let zeekler run till all of harmed investors get their initial investment back.
@John
Dooly signed a Non Disclosure Agreement with Paul Burks. Yes, Dooly has admitted to being compensated, but we do not know how much he was paid, nor exactly what he was paid for.
Troy makes no sense. Seriously, Troy Dooly has gone over the deep end even AFTER the SEC laid out all of its findings for the emergency civil action.
– Troy is still banging his head against the gray area of “unique bid auctions with compensation plans.” Troy can’t separate the issue of internal consumption from FAKED PONZI INVESTMENT RETURNS.
A penny auction that pays commissions based on actual sales (whether the bids are used or not) would not fall under an unregistered security nor a Ponzi. It could have some pyramid ramifications based on % of external revenue. Troy can’t separate these two fundamental issues.
– Troy has never adequately addressed the issue of insider knowledge and its conflict of interest. He’s given some lip service to it saying that insiders should wait until all data is disclosed to the affiliates before acting, but left it at that.
This should have been an issue he called out form day 1. Dawn, Alex, Dan, Darryl all know what the revenue and payouts are, and can maximize their return at the expense of others.
– Troy won’t acknowledge that the RPP was 100% faked. That one issue alone, regardless of any other revenue streams or ratios or compliance training, is all the government needs to convict multiple Zeek execs of fraud. The only question is if the other execs other than Paul Burks have any plausible deniability or not.
The RPP and Ponzi rate of investment was what we called out here from day 1. That’s the only issue you need to focus on. Everything else is just secondary.
Interesting! When I first posted the link about Troy’s Breaking News and Zeek’s European expansion (HAH), there were 8 comments in response to Troy on MLMHelpDesk.com – 5 were negative towards Troy.
Those negative comments are now all gone.
Latest from NC’s WGHP Fox 8:
If you’ve paid a money order or cashier check into Zeek after July 6th, you probably can get your money back. Zeek was so backed up, there was a 30-45 day delay in cashing out money orders and cashier checks.
Any Zeek Rewards affiliates should check to see if their money orders or cashier checks have been cashed. If not, you can request a stop payment or refund through your money order carrier.
@Jimmy
When the millions in their coffers are exposed, plausibile deniability will be severely damaged. Arbitrary payouts, and family members on the back-end equals zero accountability.
@Matt
Had it been run correctly, each and every VIP Point in the system (be it from bids purchased with external funds or those repurchased) should have been backed up by a real dollar.
I believe the compensation plan itself was fine.
Zeek affiliates needed to be paid enough of a ROI to grow their point balances over 90 days. Otherwise the business doesn’t work.
Paul Burks was sitting in an office and making up the daily ROI %. At 98% new affiliate money being paid out to affiliates, this equated to a 1.5% daily ROI.
You’re going to assert that “had it been run correctly” things would have been fine!? Are you shitting me?
98% of the money being paid out as a ROI was from affiliates because there was not enough retail money coming in to support the daily ROI payouts!
There was no legitimacy to the compensation plan, it’s a pure Ponzi. Jesus Christ….
Having seen your Facebook postings (Matt once dismissed the bullshit closing auction prices on Zeekler due to Ponzi scheme bid inflation as “lol, that’s just Zeek!”), I know you’re used to publishing bullshit scenarios, excuses and explanations on Zeek’s Facebook page, but you’re going to have to do a lot better than that on here.
There is nothing legitimate about a Ponzi scheme paying out a daily ROI made up of 98% new affiliate money, regardless of whether or not the daily ROI numbers were fudged or not.
Does anyone know what the deal is with Burkes turning over the company and the 4 million he has in the bank?
They mentioned he did this in exchange for admitting no guilt. Is he still open to prosecution? It seems unthinkable he is turning all the stuff over and not liable for prosecution.
“They” have it wrong,
The way that civil complaints work is completely separate from and different than criminal charges.
Burk hasn’t “turned over” anything.
He’s agreed to settle the CIVIL complaint by returning the $4million the complaint alleges he took for himself, as well as agreeing to Zeek forfeiting the bank accounts, etc.
The SEC CANNOT prefer “criminal” charges.
The whole point of the SEC action is to stop everything dead in its’ tracks AND, most importantly, stop anyone from doing a runner with the money and/or destroying evidence.
It’s like everything is now frozen while the rest of the investigation and prosecution takes place.
The exact same scenario took place in case of the AdSurf Daily ponzi, only it was the Department of Justice which handled the civil portoin of the case.
The objective was the same, however.
Make sure no more harm can be done and protect any remaining money and assets.
IM(very)HO there is absolutely no reason to think this case will be handled any differently than that of ASD.
If anything, I would predict the authorities will come down harder on both Zeek and the insiders.
IOW, after the very clear message delivered by what happened in ASD case and the fact the President’s Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force is again involved there can be no mitigating factors in Zeeks’ favour.
The ASD case was a warning, yet Zeek chose to ignore the warnings.
What can you say ??
@Oz
First off, I never said the closing auction prices were “just Zeek”. There are many penny auction “strategies” that advocate power-bidding on some items (even far over retail) as to create an image that you’ll bid a lot in order to win other items cheaper.
Second, I think we all agree that there was a huge overabundance of ‘free bids’ in the system, and not many ‘free bid auctions’, so we often saw those ones go way over the retail price. Why people paid over retail for free auctions I can’t say, but that’s not on Paul Burks.
Lets blame him for things he could control:
When I assisted on Facebook answering questions, none of us knew Burks was simply making up the RPP awards. To me, that is the biggest thing that makes him guilty.
A “profit-sharing” venture of any type needs sales, and continued sales, to work. I also never disagreed that more revenue from outside the compensation plan was important, but we had been promised Zeebates and other things that would raise it.
If I would have guessed at the time, I would have said 80% of the revenue was affiliate money, which would have been better at least. Get it down to 60 or 70% with Zeebates and it might just work. Fake the numbers completely and pay more than you have everyday, and it doesn’t even stand a chance.
Zeek’s lawyers, consultants, and compliance teams may have signed off on the compensation plan. They did not sign off on Burks faking the revenue and pumping millions and millions of points into the system when the revenue wasn’t there. If nothing else, it was the most shocking of the SEC’s finds.
The SEC report also states that 90% of the revenue was from affiliates (whereas stating 98% of the payouts). Not sure of the discrepancy in those two numbers or if it even matters, but that was interesting as well.
As a last comment about my support efforts, it was just that – support. I had a small downline of two friends, and didn’t use the facebook page as a promotional tool.
Though it’s clear now that they’ve told other lies, I don’t believe the overwhelmed Affiliate Services was one of them, so I tried to help out a bit. I know you can’t go back and read the posts now, but there were no bullshit scenarios.
Heck, it was mainly the same 5 or 6 questions over and over again. Most were based off of tech issues that were covered on the conference calls. Since most people didn’t attend them, the answers were simply what Zeek had told those of us who did.
Anyways, the profit-sharing model may not be revolutionary, but do you really think that’s why the government stepped in?
Had the real daily RPP percentages been used (based on revenue) the drastic difference between VIP Points in the system and cash on hand wouldn’t have existed.
So, in my opinion, Burks purposely raising the daily return (and bankrupting the company in the process) had a ton to do with this.
I’m not arguing your point that (much) higher customer-based revenue was necessary either though. At one point Dawn stated that they were looking to increase the auctions by 10x, but that never happened. It was supposed to happen next month (after the big ticket auctions this month) along with a redesign.
Troy Dooly stated that the company didn’t start making these suggested changes until after the NC AG had already issued the CID. If that’s true, then that’s completely on management as well.
Made a mistake with Zeek, but I don’t feel I made a mistake by helping people. For now, it’s time to help people recover, work to receive funds back, and hopefully find something better down the road.
As a final thought, nice job on your reporting.
@Jeff
Thanks for the kind words. I will however have to decline your invitation as I believe I’d be getting into the murky waters of being a consultant.
At the end of the day I’ve always maintained I’m just a guy with a keyboard and I’d like to keep it that way as it lets me get on with reviewing and analysing the MLM industry at large without distraction.
Thankyou kindly for the offer to speak though and I hope the convention goes well.
@Jaden
No, I did not. Read the breaking news article again. I made it very clear what was unconfirmed and what wasn’t.
We have been saying the RPP was a scam since DAY ONE here. We’ve questioned the unsustainability math behind the RPP, the uncanny consistency despite IT issues, web server maintenance, holidays, Zeekler promos, payment processor & eWallet problems.
We’ve asked questions everywhere we could – Facebook, ZRN, ZeekSupport forum, to ardent distributor supporters like Troy Dooly who promised several times to get answers but never did, or to only come back with pro-Zeek fluff responses.
Zeek responds by moderating all non-positive comments and locking out the support forum, and instituting “no negativity rules” threatening a cultish beatdown of anyone asking a question that didn’t paint Zeek in the best light.
We even tracked every auction and did the math on Zeekler revenue and under the most auspicious of circumstances figured it didn’t cover more than a few % of actual revenue. All this analysis was done here, in real-time, with multiple contributors and open to anyone to add their viewpoint.
None of the above was a warning signal to you?
Thread number 500, submitted by “Kelly”, just appeared. Am I the only one who has noticed it? That’s a very damning and powerful thread I say!!!
Had the real RPP % been used, Zeek Rewards wouldn’t have attracted any affiliates. The business would be DOA.
We’ve also analyzed here, real-time, on the idiocy of the spammy free classified ads and how the “work” was just a cover for the Ponzi. It was blatantly obvious.
We’ve covered other affiliate business models where you get a % of sales, such as what you can get from all the top penny auctions, or from Amazon.com or Target.com or a Walmart.com or Sears.com etc.
We’ve covered how Zeebates revenue would be insignificant and discussed affiliate shopping portals in some depth (as far as it relates to MLM and customers lack of motivation to get rebates for a few %).
Some posts go into the moderation queue, including first time posts, posts with too many links or blockquotes, certain key words, IP addresses from spam black lists, etc.
Oz has to approve them which is why the count may change, as the timestamp on the post is when the author submitted it, not when Oz approves it.
Also note that Oz is very liberal here and lets all viewpoints that are on-topic. He probably filters less than 1% of all posts, and usually for being off-topic or actual spamming.
Contrast this with what Zeek did on all their “community” properties and any other Zeek supporter site.
For all the criticism that Zeek critics like Oz and kschang receive, they all far more comments (>99%) than any other site discussing Zeek.
When you have truth and logical analysis on your side, you don’t need to suppress the comments!
I see, thanks Jimmy. I am surprised there hasn’t been any comments on that thread yet.
@Jimmy –
I’ve only been in Zeek for a few months, and spent a ton of time on Zeek’s conference calls, and answering questions (on the facebook page + hundreds and hundreds of private chats) that I rarely visited many forums.
I did watch all of Troy’s videos, but that’s about it. As you can imagine, I’ve had a lot more time to read things the last few days (after the initial onslaught of messages, of course).
My sponsor didn’t really know how the program worked, and had me sign up, buy $10 in bids, and post my ad everyday. What I learned, unfortunately, was off the ZeekRewards site, recorded conference calls, and current conference calls.
It was enough to understand how the program worked technically, and how it was supposed to work monetarily (auctions as revenue streams). That obviously didn’t paint even close to the whole picture though.
If anyone joined because of my question-answering and lost money, then I definitely feel bad about that. The vast majority were already members – some of which had met Paul Burks, lived in Lexington, visited the home office daily, etc. Lots of positives about a management team that turned out to be so crooked in the end.
@Matt
Bullshit son, I saw it with my own eyes. You were responding to someone making a query about why the closing auction prices were so high.
“That’s just zeek lol! (smiley face)”
Yet less then one percent of a quarter (0.25%) of bids given away were even used (because they were primarily dumped on fake customer accounts to increase Ponzi ROI earnings).
Burks created, owned and operated this Ponzi monster that permitted the above to happen. Of course it’s on him (and anyone else involved in management and promoting this scheme from the upper echelons).
“Raise it” is not good enough, nor does it negate the past eleven months. If you murdered someone do you think if you told a court “you should have used a smaller blade” would make a difference?
A Ponzi scheme is a ponzi scheme and if you launch one, whatever you do after the fact does not matter.
I believe one is the percentage of affiliate money paid out through the daily ROI, the other is money going into Zeek Rewards.
Yeah, but neither would Zeek Rewards because there wouldn’t have been enough money paid out to sustain point balances via the daily compounding of people’s ROI payouts.
Of course it is. All the other bullshit is just noise. Fundamentally you had a Ponzi scheme attached to a whole lot of smoke and mirrors but at the end of the day that’s what brought them down.
Even if the SEC didn’t step in, there was no way an affiliate shopping program was going to change those in/out figures which clearly showed Zeek Rewards was on a one way road to Ponzi collapse.
Great, so let’s leave it at that and agree it was a Ponzi scheme.
Increasing auction numbers doesn’t matter and does nothing to address daily ROI liabilities over time (higher point balances require more real money to sustain over a rolling 90 day period).
No matter how many auctions they might have added, revenue does not grow exponentially, unlike point balances.
Zeekler was a failure on it’s own anyway, as the SEC noted it wasn’t until Zeek Rewards was in place that any significant revenue started to pass through it. That revenue was affiliates buying VIP bids, of which 0.25% were ever used.
The problem was a complete lack of retail money coming in, never how many auctions there were.
Any attempts to divert attention away from the Zeek Rewards Ponzi scheme by trying to claim legitimacy of Rex Venture’s other operations is pointless. We’ve been dealing with this kind of crap reasoning and excuses here for months, and even after they’ve been shut down and the Ponzi figures are out there for all to see it continues.
Didn’t work then and won’t work now.
Then please don’t waste any more of my time arguing Zeek Rewards wasn’t a Ponzi scheme until you’ve read every article here on Zeek Rewards since September 2011 and are up to speed.
A lot of people read this site by clicking on “recent comments” on the right off the main page, so sometimes older posts that get approved later are missed, until someone replies to it and people say “woah, what did I miss?”. That’s when I read it.
I also IM my other “Zeek skeptic” buddies and then they contact their buddies, etc. The best comments get cross-posted to other places such as RealScam and PatrickPretty. I try to raise awareness by “bumping” the right topic with relevant new information. Oz has quite a dynamic community here and the information flows quite well.
But you are right, the one minor issue is some comments get buried between post-time and moderation-queue-approval-time, where only some comments enter the moderation queue.
This also was the main problem of the AdSurfDaily Ponzi scheme. In February 2009, more than three and a half years ago, the U.S. Secret Service exposed this problem in a document originally filed under seal.
The Doc is accessible in the Editor’s Note here:
http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/06/10/editorial-a-friday-evening-in-mlm-radio-la-la-land/
On a side note, the ASD case started as a CIVIL case with a parallel criminal investigation. The civil seizure of 15 ASD-related bank accounts by the Secret Service occurred on Aug. 1, 2008.
The grand jury that indicted Andy Bowdoin did not begin to meet until May 2009, 10 months after the seizure. The indictment itself was not unsealed until November 2010, basically a year and a half after the grand jury was empaneled.
It is clear from both the civil and criminal documentation that ONE of the Feds’ goals was to expose the wink-nod nature of these schemes.
No situations such as these have existed in the whole of human history. They are dangerous beyond measure. In the earliest days of these schemes, victims were counted in the hundreds. Then it grew to the thousands. ASD and Pathway To Prosperity took it to the tens of thousands — and now, we’re over a million with Zeek.
The largest sports stadiums in the United States no longer are large enough to accommodate the victims of a single HYIP scam. Basically, Zeek could fill the Rose Bowl 10 times over.
The implications to national/international security are UNTENABLE.
It is the kind of thing that causes Presidents to pick up the phone to speak to Prime Ministers.
PPBlog
@Oz
I believe the person who made the “that’s just Zeek” comment was the other guy who helped with support – Firee Starterr. I rarely gave one sentence answers, and wouldn’t post if it didn’t provide some sort of substance.
Be it right or wrong, I gave the same explanation I gave here (too many free bids in the system and/or power bidding occurring), along with a disclaimer that I’m not really sure.
I’m not arguing it wasn’t a ponzi scheme either. There’s no way to argue that now. The numbers are out. I’m assuming the facebook support stuff just makes you not like me, but I think we have very similar opinions at this point.
I’ve read all the articles you’ve posted over the last few days. Obviously I came to the party too late, but once again great job reporting.
@PPBlog,
Your comments above are indeed a very eye-opening perspective. You’ve made similar observations in the past – I found this one very moving and well written (you are a talented journalist):
http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/08/07/august-donation-post-why-the-pp-blog-does-what-it-does/
Your perspective on why PPBlog does what it does is one of the factors that have motivated me to stay on top of the Zeek story and “do my small part” to get the information out there and share data with other “anti-scam skeptics” (as Troy would call us).
@Matt
It wasn’t a standalone comment but part of a larger reply where you addressed some of the other concerns raised.
In any case, you can disagree it was you and I’ll assert it was you. Zeek’s FB page isn’t coming back so let’s leave it at that as it’s offtopic and not constructive (I know I initially brought it up, but it was to provide background as I recognised the name and avatar).
@Matt, hope we can be FB friends again… 🙂
@Oz – Works for me. Either way, it was only one sentence out of probably a few thousand. Don’t think I wrote it, but at this point wouldn’t testify saying I didn’t either.
@Al – not sure who you are, but if we were Facebook friends, then we still are. I haven’t deleted anyone (though I was somewhat selective in who I accepted just due to the sheer volume of requests).
Guys, to anyone who sees this, there have been reports that credit cards are willing to reverse charges to Zeek (or any of the payment processors). It’s definitely worth a shot if you made any purchases recently. Everyone can probably do it for the $29.95 marketing package.
There’s also been talk that a lot of cashier’s checks that were credited to people’s accounts weren’t actually cashed, including those sent up to 60 days ago. So go ahead and see if there’s still a chance to cancel those as well.
Good luck guys.
@OZ, that post was from Troy Dooly.
Which is, in itself, another not often mentioned scam within the scam which is referred to as the HYIP ponzi “industry”
Since the days of 12 Daily Pro HYIP ponzi player “insiders” have been blatantly using the credit card companies charge reversal policies to convince recruits that playing the “next big thing” HYIPs can be done virtually risk free.
IOW, they encourage people to make sure to deposit via credit card, do it in small monthly increments, keep the receipts and therefore be covered when the inevitable happens.
IOW, their maximum exposure is 1 months’ deposits.
The “usual suspect” HYIP ponzi forums are today filled with zeeklers openly boasting they are in profit and are in the process of covering any losses via CC chargebacks.
@littleroundman
Up until today, I didn’t know it was still an option. I figured frozen funds meant we couldn’t get anything back until all the legal stuff was settled.
I haven’t done any reversals yet, but lots of people who legitimately were hurt and had no intentions of scamming Zeek or anything like that have.
Are you recommending people do it, or is there some reason that this wouldn’t be a good idea?
Also, since it seems that I’m the only one who isn’t quoting posts in green boxes, could you advise me on how that’s done?
The CC companies should deny such charge backs. I assume no CC will allow a charge back of a deposit made months ago?
I completely agree with you, they “should”
On the other hand, I’m enough of a realist to know we’re talking literally BILLIONS of dollars here and an underworld whose only God is money.
It’s what they do.
Very little happens accidentally in the world of HYIP ponzi players.
Multiple accounts, inside information, friendly webhosts, staggered accounts, offshore payment processors.
I promise you, the general public has NO idea.
How much effort would YOU put in for a share of a lazy few billion bucks ??
Just wanted some more thoughts about this. Thanks for posting it Kelly
I’m merely pointing out what “is”
My main objective in posting is in the hope that the many silent readers of this and other warning sites come to realize they’re not dealing with a few good ol’ boys tryin’ to make a few bucks on the side.
This is big time, heavy duty fraud on a massive scale here and NOBODY is safe.
We haven’t even touched on the fact Zeek and its’ “offshore processors” have had access to millions of email addresses and millions of bank and credit card details and goodness knows what else.
Please believe me, this ain’t just about a few bucks
These guys are bloody gangsters
I’m not sure if the reddit “confession” can be trusted (comment 501) I have doubts about it.
It fits what we know, but it could be embellished and constructed from what we already know. We are not SEC so we don’t have like “secret details only a perp would know” test details.
FWIW, I got an e-mail from Kevin Thompson. His firm is gauging interest from Zeek victims to come up with a plan to “maximize payout”.
I have no idea what it means. I am not posting the URL until Oz says it’s okay to share. It’s a Google Doc web form and already on his Google Plus feed.
A bit of ambulance chasing, but only a little. 😉
Mr. Thompson has gone after MLM companies before with class action lawsuits, but the distributors rarely got much back. The settlements included lots of legal fees and diddly for the distributors who were screwed.
Maybe this time it will be different…
If this man is telling the truth, and that is a BIG IF, would he likely see any claw backs or face any criminal charges.
This might sound cruel, but if he telling the truth, he deserves to go to to jail with the rest of the founders club, and the people running it.
I’m not sure that I’d put too much stock in that reddit article either.
“some of the best investments are the ones you don’t make”. I should have taken Mr Buffets words to heart. I am so irresponsible for putting money into this ponzi scheme on 8-8-12.
My question is this: I wrote my significant investment not to zeekrewards but to an individual in my up line. It was a personal check. Do I have any grounds to stand on in recouping that money?
She funded my zeek account with money in one of her ewallet programs, although I don’t know how that was done because my investment showed up in my account the next day. I thought there was a turnaround time for the ewallets to find accounts.
This person was very high up in the organization. A few days later, zeekrewards was shut down. I’m wishing I would have done it through the bank because I hear people might get stop payments on their cashiers checks if it was within last 60-45 days. Please help
I agree it is unfounded and he didn’t leave his her name but it seems to me that a scam like this would down that way. Also using the phone, as was stated, would probably be recorded.
Different kettle of fish.
This is fraud, fraud and, more fraud NOT MLM.
I also was also scanning the Internet looking for a picture of Paul Burks. None were listed so I went to dawn wright oliveras my space page. There he was! Wouldn’t let me copy/paste on here
Then Kevin Thompson is not the attorney you want.
My point is, he is an ambulance chaser and he uses his ‘reputation’ in the MLM industry to get enough distributors to sign up for his class action lawsuit. This gives him leverage
1) against the company – MLM or not, and
2) in negotiating with other class action lawsuits or to position himself as head of the class.
Two bits of ancillary knowledge:
The Israelis got a news article up: apparently Zeek blog in co.il is still up
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/sec-shuts-down-600-million-alleged-online-ponzi-but-apparent-israeli-offshoot-still-functional/2012/08/19/
And the Lexington “The Dispatch” explains how they got the article to publish one day before the shut down… They had actually been doing that article for weeks.
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120818/COLUMNISTS/308189994/-1/sports?p=2&tc=pg
Got multiple reports that Zeek affiliate’s NxPay eWallets are frozen.
Any reports on STP and that third eWallet company? Are they frozen too?
STP cash outs are working fine AFAIK. I cashed out a few hundred bucks just yesterday and other affiliates have initiated cash outs without incident so far.
NxPay had a special arrangement with Zeek – perhaps that is why the cashflow issues were so intertwined. STP and and AlertPay are independent eWallets who deal with many HYIP’s and their model non-US location also helps in this scenario.
STP and AlertPay function like a true eWallet, albeit with scummy merchants and high fees. When $ is transferred in STP or AP it is actually transferred. NxPay’s low fees may be because they don’t actually deduct funds from Zeek’s account until it is withdrawn.
I have a feeling that NxPay set up the affiliate’s eWallets as ‘subaccounts’ to Zeek’s primary eWallet, instead of truly independent eWallets you can pay any one.
Not sure if this ever came up.
I was looking over some old comments when this name jumped out at me: Chris Molinari
https://behindmlm.com/about/#comment-22234
Didn’t this name also appeared many times on ZeekRewards as a trainer?
I understand what you’re saying.
HOWEVER, now is NOT the time to become involved with ANYONE offering to get money back /sue / facilitate / petition / replace / and whatever offer-du-jour is out there at the minute.
Ask anyone who was around at the time of this same scenario happening with AdSurf Daily and Andy Bowdoin and you’ll quickly discover the same thing happened after ASD was busted in the same manner.
The next few months are likely to be filled with all sorts of caring and sharing people offering to help out. (for a small fee, of course)
DON’T DO IT.
DON’T SPEND ONE MORE CENT ON ZEEK.
The mould is made, the die is cast, the wheels are in motion.
Learn from your experience.
Don’t believe the B/S.
Yep, he was one of the “Key Zeek Personnel and was the author of the ZeekRewardsPost on WordPress, which is still up:
http://zeekrewardspost.wordpress.com/author/zeekpost/
There is a “Chris” on Troy’s blog that was a frequent kool-aid drinker & Zeek critic basher, including this. Troy was siding with Chris. Morten was asking the same questions asked on BehindMLM.
Chris:
Morten:
Troy:
Morten:
Chris:
We are giving the same advice, but form different perspectives. I am saying the distributor is likely to get very little in a class action lawsuit given KT’s track record. Therefore, don’t do it.
You’re saying let the justice system do its thing and avoid throwing good $ after bad or letting the ambulance chasers milk more money from affiliate for less than likely what the government can recover on your behalf. Therefore, don’t do it.
Yep,
In my experience, it’s all about harm minimization from here on in for anyone in the least concerned with the true victims of what’s happened
Chris Molinari (female) is a PR hack hired by MLM companies for online PR – chrismolinarimedia.com
I’ve locked horns with her before on LiveSmart 360 back in April 2011 – https://behindmlm.com/companies/livesmart-360/is-mark-mccool-the-ceo-of-livesmart-360/#comment-23058
Photo – http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-molinari/19/b01/405
I believe Molinari was hired by Zeek Rewards (her name appeared on one of their blogs as the author, referenced by Dawn) and was an affiliate.
She subscribes heavily to posting diversionary bullshit that fails to address whatever it is she is criticising. This is often the author themselves, rather than the content posted as evidenced by her replies to the LiveSmart 360 article.
After I called her out on her PR bullshit she fluttered off into the wind, never to be heard from again. I next saw her name pop up on that Zeek Rewards blog and figured they’d hired her.
Thankfully she never turned up here again to spout her nonsense.
Google remembers her:
ZeekRewards – About Us
zeekrewards.com/aboutus.asp
About Us. Zeekler and ZeekRewards are owned by Rex Venture Group LLC, … Key Zeek Personnel (listed alphabetically) … Chris Molinari – Blog & copy writer
Maybe Chris Molinari could teach us more about clawbacks.
Troy has alluded in his terse responses on his blog that he does not believe Zeek is a Ponzi, and that he does not believe the SEC complaint.
Now he has confirmed it, in this response:
The response – trimmed for emphasis (the rest of the response is nothing new from Troy):
Troy dooly had told me personally in his blog that he retired from mlm many years ago, but yet, he is running around cheer leading for zeek and getting compensated for it.
This old man with a left earring is so loaded with donkey shit.
I tried to make a reply to exactly that comment, but the comment system there is really annoying, showing “ERROR. Your session has expired” and “Try to log in”. 🙂
I’m posting it here:
Skilled advisors in general are meant to be CLEAR.
Qualified people in general are meant to be able to handle different “conflicts of interest” within their own “core values” themselves, by assigning priorities to the different values in each and every situation.
By using arguments like “innocent until proven guilty in court”, he is placing himself outside the 2 groups I mentioned — “Skilled advisors” and “Qualified people”.
He has not trained himself properly to fill the role he’s acting in from time to time, he’s only ACTING in that role. Branding yourself as an expert in something is a bad idea if you’re not able to deliver the real thing.
“Morten” is me, in case anyone haven’t guessed that. “M_Norway” is related to the first situation where I posted on OzSoapbox, in a thread about Liberty League International in 2009, where the main audience was from Australia (and I used “Google translate” on my own posts).
So SOME “mysteries” can have a relatively normal explanation, but some unsolved mysteries can of course add some excitement to the situation from time to time. 🙂
Easy to figure this one out…
Troy has admitted to getting paid by Zeek for things such as dinner and hotels etc. What he is not going to say in public is whether he got paid thousnads of $’s for lying to the public.
This of course could have been done under the tsble very easily by Burks.
Oz,
I have seen many people post in various forums that those affiliates who made money with zeek would have to give their profits back.
Can you say with certainty whether or not this is true. Can you give an example to prove your reply or opinion? Thank you for all you do here.
michael
For an ACCOUNTANT, that’s pretty damn embarassing! You don’t even have to be an accountant to have heard of Enron or Madoff. And as an accountant, probably knowing full well what happened with Enron, you should be EXTREMELY EMBARASSED to remotely even THINK this was legitimate.
When someone refuses to divulge revenue/profit numbers and tells you that information is “PROPRIETARY”, is that *NOT* the biggest red flag among the sea of red flags?!?!
“However the unknown variable of profits” So you tossed your money in ***NOT KNOWING*** the profits, which is what they told people they were paying them with?!? Damn, just when you think you heard it all.
Your other DD was a complete waste of time because noy knowing the profits, and the company’s refusal to divulge that information claiming it was “propriatary”, should have sent you RUNNING, not walking, RUNNING away form this scam.
To quote the CEO of Enron, when asked during a conference call by a market analyst why Enron couldn’t produce a Balance Sheet along with it’s Earnings Statements: “Well, thank you very much, we appreciate that . . . asshole.” LOL!!!
I just went to my local bank here in High Point, N.C. to ck to see if my Bank cks from 5-30 and 6-12 had been cashed by Zeek, They had NOT been cashed…They were each for 5K…Just info for you..
@michael
Not at this point. The legal side of a Ponzi being shut down isn’t something I’m familiar with.
I have had a few discussions with “Chris”, but only a few. She has relatively poor fighting skills, so she will usually “disappear” if she meets resistance (… lurking around until the threat has disappeared, and the situation feels safe enough to return).
I’m pretty sure she felt her innocence was abused when I started to ask about paying customers, or some similar feelings (… I won’t analyse THAT too deeply). 🙂
Then again, the “Chris” who was posting on Troy Dooly’s blog can of course have been someone else, someone with relatively similar “symptoms”.
What I don’t understand ishow do these so called top money makers get to go from one program to the next? The top line heavy recruiters I mean.
If a scam is discovered and investigations ensue, how on earth do they make a profit to move on? From what I have read on this forum there were participants in both ASD and zeek. If they are required to return the profits then how? why?
Clawbacks from winners are not unheard of in recent HYIP ponzi prosecutions.
* The appointed receiver in the Colon End Parenthesis (CEP) prosecution sought and obtained funds from what he referred to as “winners” in the ponzi scheme.
see here for details: http://www.wfperkinsforcep.com/
*Likewise, the receiver in the McKnight/Legisi ponzi case also sought and received “clawbacks”
The Legisi case is notable also for the fact one of its’ major promoters, Matt Gagnon of “Mazu” was also penalized to the tune of some $4 million
See here: http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/03/28/urgent-bulletin-moving-legisi-ponzi-scheme-pitchman-matthew-j-gagnon-ordered-to-pay-more-than-4-2-million-in-disgorgement-penalties/
* Clawbacks were and are being made in the Trevor Cook ponzi: http://www.patrickpretty.com/2010/07/24/clawback-actions-begin-in-trevor-cook-case-receiver-says-millions-of-dollars-of-preferential-transfers-to-investors-occurred-after-sec-paid-surprise-visit/
Generally such clawbacks are sought mainly from “insiders’ and big winners, although there has been a noticeable change in policy in recent cases.
Someone was successful in getting a payment to zeek from STP 8/16 reversed this a.m.
I tried to reverse it also and I got this response:
I found this info on Troy’s site. Believe me, I am not falling for any of the propaganda on there but as an affiliate concerned for me and my handful of friends that are in this, I want practical information.
Like Oz said, trust no one and verify. Oddly enough, I’m by nature not usually susceptible to these things like Zeek. But failing biz, deperate people do desperate things.
I am only trying to provide info that may help other affiliates. Not sure how true this is…I went there…am taking steps to close all third party accounts, NxPay, STP, Payza.
The little $$$ I have in there isn’t worth the risk of more shennanigans in my accounts…closing bank account associated with them…and calling credit card company to report compromised card and trying to get credit for recent subscription fees, etc and the useless compliance course. last way to get more money out of us.
Anyway, go here…you decide…
http://paymentsystem-journal.com/new-problems-for-solidtrust-pay-illegally-processing-in-the-united-states/
Also received the Kevin Thompson email from upline this morning. Thankfully my paranoia/suspicious antenna are working fine again…I felt it my responsibility to forward the email to my friends…but told them DON’T DO IT!!!!!
After reviewing your comments here, looks like my gut was right. The vultures will be circling us for a long time…let’s not be stupid and stupider….
Easy,
they’re professional criminals who use false names, multiple untraceable accounts with multiple offshore payment processors, throwaway email accounts and use every trick in the book to avoid detection.
Newbies don’t stand a snowballs’ chance in hell.
Don’t believe me ??
Read this Letter from a scammer.
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-143765.html
Forbes has updated their article and is reporting that Paul Burks is being represented by Noell Tin.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2012/08/18/feds-halt-alleged-600-million-zeekrewards-ponzi-scheme-how-it-happened-and-whats-next/
http://www.tinfulton.com/Bio/NoellTin1.asp
On August 17 before the SEC news hit, I received a list email from Len Clements, Founder and CEO of MarketWave, Inc.
He said
He was in the process of writing a Zeek review. For what it’s worth (since he didn’t think Zeek was a Ponzi!), here’s a link to his review: http://www.MarketWaveInc.com/docs/ZeekRewardsReview.pdf
To Chris and those responding to Chris:
This whole Zeek scam is a study in psychology even more than it is a study in finance.
One of the fundamental problems Chris and others have is the fact that they believe “consulting” with so-called “experts” and asking other peoples’ opinions constitutes “due diligence.” Who came up with that idea, and why are others giving them a pass on it?
Chris makes statements like “I talked with the lawyer for Rex Ventures and he was very positive,” “I talked with 10 high flyers [people who have made big money] and they all spoke glowingly,” “I looked around on the internet and some ‘respected’ people with reputations said positive things.”
Hello? Since when is any of that “due diligence???” Your so-called respected people and people with reputations, and people with opinions didn’t turn out to be too reliable, did they? Including that obvious paid stooge, shill and liar Troy Dooley.
Maybe you should pull your head out of “the wrong place” and realize that because a person has somehow managed to make money in the past (on who knows what scheme) doesn’t mean they are ethical, intelligent or reliable. The same goes for a person who has managed to self-promote themselves as someone who supposedly knows a lot about the “industry.”
The fact that you asked for their opinions doesn’t equate to doing “due diligence,” so stop saying that it does.
As Oz said above, “due diligence” means looking at the compensation scheme: i.e., where does the money come from, is it legitimate income, and can it keep coming in?
What happened here is the Zeek people decided right from the start to keep secret the answers to those questions because they knew they were operating a fraud. As soon as you saw that, you should have known there was a problem.
They are keeping you from you from being able to do true due diligence, so walk away right then and there. Their bogus spin line for keeping you from doing true due diligence was to say “that’s proprietary information.” Sorry if you believed that one.
But what did people do when confronted with Zeek’s decision to prevent them from doing true due diligence? Instead of walking away, they decided, “hey, I think I’ll ask around for other people’s opinions instead.”
What the the Zeek people, and most scam artists, knew was that most people don’t think for themselves; they just do what they think everyone else is doing. So your first objective if you are a scam artist or even a legitimate promoter is to convince people others are doing it.
Just watch advertising on TV, music videos, or anything else you want, and you will see that the main thrust of brain washing is to convince people that “everybody is doing it.”
It’s well known that people make decisions based on what others are doing, not based on their own rational analysis. KChang and the regular posters on this site are obviously people who are the exception to that rule because they think for themselves. Thank God we have such people, and thank God they are attempting to spread the truth.
I came to this and other sites a couple of months ago when a deluded family member was pushing me hard to join Zeek, and one line of discussion that particularly irked me was the repeated statements of the Zeek pushers that “Zeek has hired some of the top attorneys in the country, the best MLM lawyers in the business, etc., to make sure they are in full compliance. Surely this shows they are a legitimate operation.”
What a load of crap. Once again we have people who have decided that since they can’t do true due diligence, they will look to bogus factors, like who has the company associated itself with, as if that association serves as some type of stamp of approval. Just idiocy.
Being involved in the legal business myself, I looked up these lawyers, put their address into google maps, and found their offices were in some nondescript little strip mall some place in suburban Idaho or Utah.
When’s the last time you saw supposed top lawyers in the country operating out of such offices and representing clients like Zeek that are pulling in hundreds of millions, yet their “headquarters” is some shitty little window storefront? Take a look at some of the top law firms in NYC, DC, LA, etc., and tell me if you see any difference (not to say those places can’t and don’t have their own sets of liars).
What really bothers me about this Zeek scam is that since the scam was being run so publicly and out in the open, the perpetrators — Burks, Wright-Olivares, etc. — had to know full well that this day was coming, that at some point they would be shut down and charged civilly and potentially criminally for fraud, yet they pushed forward. What does that tell you?
I can tell you what it tells me. It tells me they calculated that they would make so many millions along the way that whatever fines they had to pay would be less than the money they kept.
So Paul Burks has agreed to pay 4M in fines. So what? Do you really believe all he, as the architect of the entire scam, received along the way was $4M??? On a business that has paid out $375M to others and had $225M in banks when it was shut down??? Please.
How many people in this country or around the world would be willing to be shut down, pay fines, or even possibly spend a few months or years in a minimum security prison if, after the dust cleared, they and their family members had millions left in the bank allowing them to live out their years in the lap of luxury with never a care in the world?
Not sure if I did the highlighting thing right about an excerpt from roundman…but in response to the above, I really didn’t know this.
Well, all this brought me back to my Plan B, which was A till I got distracted by Zeek in March, getting back to a business venture that has no upline, sideline or downline…run by three people, me, myself and I!!!!
I am swearing off any MLM, any free offers in the mail…I’m done! Our blood sweat and tears built a biz that has lasted four generations…failing because of the economy not because of fraud. I can do it again…on my own!
We can’t play victims here…just get over it and move on or you will die in your anger and grief. Off soapbox…
I’m a first time poster on here, and haven’t paid close enough attention to determine if this blog is put up by Oz or KChang, etc. Whoever it is deserves much credit for all their efforts, as do all contributors who joined in in the same vein (but NOT the Zeek cool-aid drinkers).
Troy doesn’t seem to understand that this is why he’s a laughing stock with zero credibility. While everyone in the entire world seems to know that Zeek was a ponzi scheme, only Troy is out there trying to say that it wasn’t.
I know that everyone’s innocent until proven guilty, but we all know the SEC won’t take the action they did without having some facts to back it up. And again, if Paul Burks was 100% innocent, then he should have just denied any wrongdoing, lawyered up, and told the SEC to stuff their agreement.
They kind of remind you of Saul Goodman, a.k.a. Better Call Saul, from the TV show “Breaking Bad”. LOL!!
Forbes is reporting Burks has cut a deal and will not do any jail time.
This “Chris” character’s style of speech and the arguments made are remarkable similar to the ones made by the “Chris” of the so-called “212 Team.” Hmmmm…
You can use a different strategy, writing a relatively “empty” article about the topic, and let the users add information currently unknown to you.
I have similar limitations when it comes to the aftermath of a Ponzi scheme, so my strategy would have been trying to attract information from someone else.
People are usually willing to contribute with the information they might have, but only if the conditions are the right ones — an audience interested in exactly that topic, and where the contribution adds to a main topic (not being “drowned” in other subtopics).
It means if people HAVE some valuable information about clawbacks, chargebacks and similar topics, they will probably prefer NOT to have it drowned in a discussion about Troy Dooly or Chris Molinari. 🙂
I have used similar strategies most of the time, “adding other people’s insight to my own”. It means I will have to START to analyse something, showing clearly “here is an audience interested in exactly that topic, but without the insight needed”. And usually it will pop up some qualified answers after some time, whether it is about “Zeek tax issue” or about “Supreme Court’s jurisdiction”.
As an example here:
Lynnette “Lynn” Edgington has some information on her website, but I will spend too much time looking for that information, quoting, linking, etc.
It’s probably easier if she identifies that information herself, what she believe can be of interest (for former Zeek affiliates as the main target, but for other readers too).
I’ve added a hub on how the shutdown would probably be handled, the aftermath, and all that.
http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/ZeekRewards-shut-down-by-SEC-as-600-Million-Ponzi-Scheme-What-happens-now-and-what-should-you-do
The Reddit is getting interesting, as the person there is still reply to posts. Here’s a particularly interesting one:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/yhagt/iama_dishonest_person_part_of_a_600_million/c5vtiuw
Remember, completely unconfirmed, from anonymous source, etc. etc. Reliability is low, circumstantial corroboration… pretty high. AND the main post/confession’s removed.
@M_Norway
Empty would be the correct term to use in the literal sense of the article would empty because I have no idea :).
I’ve always differentiated on the legal and practical definitions of a Ponzi scheme, solely focusing on whether or not a MLM company is a Ponzi scheme in a practical sense based on their compensation plan and money flow.
My gut tells me it might be best to leave the legal side of things to people like Patrick Pretty who are well versed in the study, analysis and reporting of such matters.
Nonsense.
The SEC can’t do deals
Believe me, you really, really wouldn’t want a kiss on the lips from Lynn Edgington.
HIS stubble would probably rip your lips off.
M_Norway: It’s Lynndel, a guy. 🙂
We read the plea deal already. Already linked to it. Where have you been?
https://sites.google.com/site/asdupdatesfiles/documents/other-asd-cases/12-cv-00519-zeek-rewards-sec-case
He only settled against the SEC. Don’t be surprised when Postal inspectors, NC AG’s office, and others hit him with CRIMINAL charges.
Troy Dooley, You like to quote the bible and Paul Burkes did as well. Perhaps you missed this one;
Thanks for being there waving the red flag about zeek. My boss invested in this company several months back and has been hard at me to sign up.
It was the info I found on this site that kept me skeptical. You saved me some money as it turns out.
Some swimming in the Kool-Aid pool emails still circulating. Funny, stupid and sad at the same time. First stage denial, or just delusional? Close call at this point.
Although I do believe they might be realizing now that it’s not coming back. One step at a time.
My in-laws had been pretty quiet about Zeek around me since Friday, and finally I talked to them last night about it. I think they were pretty humbled after how they’d treated my skepticism about Zeek and all the “____ is making $$$ per week” gloating.
I emailed them a link to Kasey Chang’s page about what victims should or should not do now. They seemed shocked at the idea of the government coming after those who made a lot of money in it. I also informed them that it may take two years to get any money back and they may not get all of what they put in.
I didn’t ask but am curious as to how they feel at signing so many people up, even after I voiced my concerns that it was a ponzi scheme. Not once did I say “I told you so” or take that attitude, and I think they respected me for it.
I think I have a bit more respect from my wife who often chided me for “being negative” and my skeptical, non-enthusiastic attitude toward Zeek.
I told her not to be dismissive of my skepticism again and hope this is the wakeup call to not join the next MLM or investment scheme that comes to town even though her parents are enthusiastic about it. At least with Zeek she was just playing with $1000 of her dad’s money and we didn’t have any invested ourselves.
I think it’s a combination of denial and desperation from people who realize that the money they invested and their “sure thing” money tree are long gone.
Some people invested money they couldn’t afford to lose, so now they’re just clinging to any & every hope they have that they’ll be able to get it back.
I asked my husband (nicely) if he thought he should mention I was right about the Ponzi and maybe apologize for thinking I was nutty, he mumbled about not being sure what it was. (Didn’t read a thing I emailed him with the facts).
However he is looking a little more deeply this morning into the other Ponzi he’s in, since I told him that was one too. However I think by tonight or tomorrow he will convince himself it’s probably okay.
I would have appreciated a “We’re sorry we were so dismissive of your concerns. We should have listened to you” from them, but maybe they’re still in shock that they lost money.
I really do think they should have looked into it a lot more than they did but I think they were blinded by greed.
And especially the IRS!!!!!!!!!!!!
But if I had 5K or more invested…I would have my civil suit filed today against Zeek, naming all those at the top and including Dooly. The net would be wide!
I expect your in-laws will be on to the next shortly. I believe for my husband the addiction is the initial “high”, the excitement of this is the one, where money just falls on you.
Zeek filled that bill for quite awhile, a lot longer than most. He’s been doing this stuff forever, he’s not new. Ponzi, mlm, gambling systems, you name it. And he really really believes.
When the excitement fades, must go on for the next high.
We need a support group for spouses/friends/family of get rich quick schemes LOL
If he profited from this ponzi, is he aware that they may be coming after that profit?
Yes, I did mention that Chris. He says he’s not giving it back…but he won’t have to. They take what they want.
I’m working today to separate personal money from Zeek money, just in case they freeze any banking accounts.
I’m not doing anything to try to prevent any clawback, they can have it for all I care. I just want to have personal money separated.
Here is some useful information for anyone reading who may have recently put money into Zeek Rewards.
I sent a Money Order to Zeek Rewards on 7/26. The bids where credited to my account on 8/8. In the wake of last week events, I took the receipt for my Money Order to the bank that drew it earlier today (8/20).
As I suspected – Zeek had never cashed the check. The bank usually requires a 30 day wait before issuing a stop payment, but they are aware of the Rex Venture/Zeek situation and were able to issue the stop payment early for me. I was able to recoup all that money today.
I also contacted my credit card company and was able to receive credit for membership fees I paid.
Just passing the word. If any of you find yourself in a similar situation, I suggest you try and see what you can do! Good luck!
I knew this was coming…obviously. Tried to be very organized with records, etc.
Let’s just say he’s in slight bit of denial himself. And since apparently half of his info came from Troy Dooly, both of their credibility are in doubt (but in different degrees)
If history is to prove and serve as any indication to many, one can pretty much assume that, sadly, this is not the first nor will it be the last attempt by certain people at duping other people out of their money in a huge way and succeeding at it.
One can’t blame too many for succumbing to the human tendency for easy work, high pay opportunities. It’s one reason why gambling and other games of chance with a monetary reward still exist, in my opinion.
As has been mentioned many times before, most people want to believe it is possible to earn a large amount of money in the least amount of time. Albeit, most are expecting their involvement in such schemes to be of the legal and legit kind.
The positive thing about all this is that a lot of people will have learned a valuable lesson and will serve as guide posts to others in regards to situations of this type.
But again, many will heed the warnings to the contrary and many will not.
Such is life.
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120820/NEWS/120829997/1074?p=3&tc=pg
Here’s an article published in The Dispatch, Burks’ hometown newspaper. It says affiliates should expect to get info from the receiver online in the next few days…receiver is Kenneth Bell out of Charlotte. Not sure if this is correct info but passing it along…
On a lighter note…a few days before the crash I remember reading in one of the zeek affiliate forums that Dawn had planned an awesome masquerade ball for the Nashville Convention.
At the time I thought it was kind of odd…but knowing what I know now, don’t you think ‘MASQUERADE” is pretty ironic????
I just want to warn all the true believers that there will be a new attempts to separate you from even more money.
A trial balloon has already be floated about the possibility of Zeek relocating to Europe etc. Some scam artist will tell you Zeek has moved elsewhere and re-opened. They will tell you all your points and everything else you have with zeek will also transfer.
All you will have to do is pay a transfer fee that you will need to send to some foreign account using only Money Orders or cashier’s checks made out to the transfer agent who is in actuality the scammer.
They will quote a whole bunch of fake laws saying things like Belgium requires any transfer to take place within 30 days so you have to hurry. They will also say your payments can’t start for 90 days because the Belgium Government wants to fully certify the business before operations begin.
Any offer structured similar to this is just that, a scam, as is any offer to continue Zeek in any way. Zeek is dead and gone and ain’t coming back.
Also be aware of any offer to file a claim against the trustees that does not come from the US government. Especially avoid any that require upfront fees.
Criminals see Zeek participants as ripe for the pickings. Don’t get defrauded again. Don’t throw any more good money away chasing the money the Zeek fraudsters stole from you.
If you have ever seen 3 card monte, the guy that wins in the beginning is partners with the dealer.
In zeek rewards Paul Burks is the dealer and Troy Dooly is the winner.
I will say last 10 days before the closing I was receiving 2- 3 txt msggs a day from people trying to get me into Zeek….Now no one’s answering any txt….
I don’t know. The last MLM they got involved with was probably about 10 years ago. But I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point in the future they tell us about the next big thing.
K Chang- I agree 100%!
Clements said he was waiting to finish his review until a promised ‘exclusive’ interview with Burks and Grimes that never happened over the past month (3 cancellations on their part). It’s easy to be ‘right’ about Zeek once the SEC announcement is out!
I already thanked Oz for his research and K Chang- I want to thank you as well, along with M. Norway and others who have posted regularly on this site. You guys didn’t need an ‘exclusive’ interview to figure out that Zeek was a Ponzi.
Clements gave Zeek the benefit of the doubt. That’s unfortunate since he has a wide following and a lot more people might have been ‘saved’ from the disastrous outcome.
Comment from Troy’s site:
They’re really having trouble letting Zeek go, aren’t they? Nor can they seem to understand that Zeek wasn’t a penny auction site with a ponzi attached, it was a ponzi using a penny auction site as a front.
Frankly, it would be financial suicide for anyone to revive the Zeek or RVG names in business, because all the information about the Zeek ponzi are on the internet forever.
Regardless, there are already a bunch of penny auction sites with shady comp plans attached. If they really want to revive Zeek, they should just look at investing in Bidify (whoops, can’t do that any more) or Bids That Give, or any of the others which patterned themselves after Zeek.
How do you make the green boxes appear? I had one appear above in an earlier post, but I don’t know what I did to make that happen!
Have some fun with them. Ask them how much money they’re making in Zeek now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she were wearing a disguise these days.
As for the Nashville Zeek convention, I guess my father-in-law will have to change his vacation plans now.
If you want to quote someone’s post, just click the “quote” next to their name. If you want to post text from other sources, use <blockquote> in brackets before the text and </blockquote> in brackets after. I’d show you here but it would just think I was trying to block quote text.
Thank you, Joe Mama! I got it, I think!!! Will have to save that in a Note for future reference.
I smell a rat, a BIG RAT. Troy Dooly’s latest video warning of a European Zeek start up is nothing more than a PR move for him to try to resuscitate his reputation.
Time for him to own up to his roll and his unwavering support for Zeek. Most of Zeek’s affiliates joined because of his love and praise for the company.
Now he sits at his computer mocking ZR affiliates by saying “did you read the editorial to my video”, ” What Ponzi?” and “I think the SEC acted to soon”. What a POS that guy is.
@Dan
What are you talking about? The only companys required to disclose profits are Public Companys. There a plenty of large companys that dont disclose profits. So your argument is moot.
Again Al not him and not familiar with that group.
Dan really, if you knew anything about the industry Grimes and Reese are one of the biggies in the industry. Maybe not after this but your Google Map search resulted in a faulty concusion
Zeek Rewards members who have been a part of the system for a while and actually saw payouts should beware. The SEC has a copy of all that Zeek Rewards has paid out and to who beyond the “investment” portion. They have your name, address, phone number and tax ID on the printout/electronic file.
The SEC will come after all of you with a court order to return the funds paid to you under the ponzi scheme as it’s “stealing money” from investors. The SEC has the authority to go after your bank accounts where you are hiding the money.
So be careful of co mingling or spending this money. The feds will confiscate whatever you put buy and sell it to provide the funds to pay back the investors for the initial investment.
Its sought of funny that your due dilligence on attorneys was Google maps and you chide me on what I already admitted was due dilligence light.
I agreed with OZ and KChang and others that ultimately I had to sell myself. So you can keep calling others who made a mistake stupied , ittiates etc and engage in childish insults but the bottom line is 1,000,000 people got conned.
Just because you passed on this does not make you a genius and the 1,000,000 people stupid. So if you want to continue intelligent debate great,but as I stated before personal attacks show weakness.
So if you want to enlighten me how a google maps of an attorney is tantamoutn to due dilligence? hmmm?
Agreed MB what you did with 20k I did with 1K. Made a bad choice. BTW it really didnt warrant much more than I did for a grand.
The constant clucking and insults because of a bad choice, faulty analysis or lack there of serves no purpose other than perhaps adding to this “event” coined as the Apocolypse and how people degnerate into sand box comments cuz they have no other value to add to this very education sharing of ideas.
But if your best shot is that I left out or added a space or mispelled something than all I can say is lmao. Cmon bring some value to the discussion.
I just off the phone with STP. I got $3,450 back from zeek made on 8/15 and 8/16. You must wait for hours to talk to CS. Do not send in support ticket. You will get form letter stating the the zeek account has been frozen.
Good luck.
stp 705 731 0908
fax 705 731 0341
I can’t believe this letter that is circulating. This person clearly does not understand what a ponzi is and that paying participants with other participants is illegal. This person claims zeek is not a ponzi but basically admits its a ponzi later in the letter.
PASS THIS ON… ZEEK WAS NOT A PONZI… ZEEK WAS NOT FINANCIALLY IN TROUBLE… ZEEK COULD SUSTAIN ITSELF…
The rest of you need to help us get the word out so send our ZEEK UPDATES out to every ZEEK PERSON YOU KNOW!!!
To be added to our list just e-mail your request to: zeekdiamondupdates@gmail.com
Please post this communication on facebook, blogs, talking boards and any other online sites available to you.
IN THIS COMMUNICATION
Summary of two hour Legal Option Call…
Last night at 7pm with several legal minds and about 25 zeek rewards leaders including myself discussed ZEEK REWARDS AFFILIATE OPTIONS to hire a legal team, to form a 1000 person march at the North Carolina Federal Court House and why the 22 page SEC document that allowed them to freeze funds, close down Zeek was full of innuendos and mis-information especially when claiming that ZEEK was a PONZI.
We discussed the possible cost in retaining a WASHINGTON DC & NC SEC Law Firm to represent all the 1 million affiliates. We have an e-mail into Kevin Grimes to see if he can share any insight or recommendations on the matter. We all agreed that Paul Burke is innocent but was possibly scared into his quick no contest type plea.
We all agreed that action must be taken quickly if we are going to have any possibility of getting Zeek back open and salvage our business. We do not think the powers that be understood that they were shutting down a company that has been 15 years in the making. If they did not agree with the penny auction system why did they shut down my free store portion of it. They have interrupted the privately own businesses of over 2 million people and only a professional team of LAWYERS
RETAINED by ZEEK AFFILIATES will PROVE THIS TO THE COURT AT HAND.
Within 48 hours after some Legal Due Diligence and with the LAWYERS PERMISSION we will set up a ZEEK LEGAL WAR CHEST FUND WEBSITE and go to battle. It will be an argument by The Private Zeek Rewards Affiliates Business “VS” The SEC. We believe we can raise over 1 million dollars quickly and put this argument before the courts THIS WEEK. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. PLEASE GET THIS WORD OUT!
Another note the SEC said that if everyone went to 100% pull out of funds and did not re-purchase that ZEEK would have had to PAY OUT $45,000,000.00 (FORTY-FIVE MILLION A DAY)… NOT… It was always known that ZEEK would pay out up to 50% of GROSS SALES.
So yes if everyone pulled out 100% they would of had to pay out 45 million maybe on that day. But the next day because of no re-purchases the payout as the PLAN CLEARLY DESCRIBES would have only shared up to 50% of the NEW PURCHASES. So it may not have been as much in fact it would have been a fraction of such. ZEEK was quite capable of sustaining itself for the long term of the business until the penny auction and who else knows what Paul and the leaders would have brought to the company to make it very profitable…
What is sad is how the Government screams FIRE where there is not even smoke and so many people are ready to crucify Paul and wish bad things to happen to him. I on the other hand is saying especially to all my CHRISTIAN BROTHERS and SISTERS to come together and PRAY for PAUL and his family and to get ready to come to this HONEST MAN who never did anything wrong in his 40 years of being in business and with what 8 SATISFIED COMPLAINTS from almost 2 million agents over 15 years in business. SHAME ON THE GOV’T…
Oz, thanks so much for all your work. You take the time to research and give us very helpful facts. So a lot of my friends were part of the Zeek ponzi, they lost lots of time and money…and now, there are ppl trying to make them join Global One.
All those companies just sound the same to me, and I am worried my friends are gonna repeat the same Zeek experience. In your oppinion, is Global One another Ponzi?
Please let me know what you think. It just sucks to see people trying to take advantage of a terrible thing like the Zeek Fiasco.
@lee
$3450 for two days? That must be profit beyond your initial bid purchase. If it is, those funds should be be going to the people who got in late and have received less than their original purchase.
BTW are you familiar with “claw back”? It’s not going to feel good when the FED Gov comes calling for those funds.
@zeekblows
They forgot to invite Troy Dooly.
I just got done reading that on Troy’s site. Nothing but a bunch of incorrect ranting assertions with no basis in fact.
Give up, Zeek is totally and officially dead.
I was amused at the 1000 person march on the NC federal building, though.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Troy wrote it himself.
I wish I could say that the letter surprises me, but it doesn’t.
Amazing that these people can’t seem to grasp the simple fact that in order for Paul to maintain the charade, he had to pay out almost 99% of the ponzi revenue in July.
It was only a short time from completely imploding.
As Oz and others have mentioned numerous times, as soon as the RPP percentage dropped to the point where members points would be expiring faster than growing, people would have started cashing out more and more.
Scene: NC federal building
Aide: Sir, there are about a thousand people here with a written statement demanding to shut down all prosecution of Zeek Rewards and to let the business reopen because they say it’s not a ponzi scheme.
SEC Investigator: What? This is an open-and-shut case. We’ve been following it for the better part of a year. We have loads of evidence which shows that members were being paid primarily by other members. This was a pure ponzi scheme, through and through.
Aide: But… their statement is written with random words in all caps…
SEC Investigator: This changes everything.
My favorite part of the letter:
Lol they fail to understand that 50% profit sharing was a hoax, the rpp was a hoax and paul manually entered it, and the auctions made next to nothing or are they talking about the sale of sample bids to affiliates in which case it would make it a ponzi anyways.
Zeek averaged a 1.5% roi REGARDLESS of what the auctions made which WOULD mean they would pay out 45 million a day which means they would dry up the 250 million in offshore accounts in a little under 6 days time.
Not sure if it has been mentioned here yet but according to Tom Chenault, Troy has offered to resign from the Association of Network Marketing Professionals. Tom doesn’t want him too though.
Seems like there are not a lot of former affiliates here..only people debating who did what to whom and when. Anyway, I’m only posting news that I get to pass onto former affiliates.
I got another update from upline saying that if anyone bought bids in the past 45 to 60 days, chance are that the checks were not cashed. Not sure why this is…perhaps there was a freeze on monies none of us has heard about.
Contact your bank with the pertinent cashiers check info, etc. and see if the check can be cancelled. May or may not work…worth a try. I’ve called all the people I know and emailed them. Haven’t gotten word yet as to whether it worked.
I posted that STP refunded my payment to zeek made on 8/15 and 8/16
Just for info…. I did go to my bank today after work and the check had NOT BEEN CASHED. So they did put a stop payment on it but did say that if it was cashed in one business day the Bank would not be responsible.
I was the 7th person there today with the same story (who would have thought) lol.
Another friend of mine went to his bank and they put a stop payment on his money order but also said that they had been notified today by the SEC that they were handling things and no more stop payments on Cashiers checks.
My bank never mentioned that! So guess there are conflicting stories. But for now, I am relieved!
Oz, kchang, m_norway, jimmy, e, al, realscam crew, et al…
The author of one of the Forbes articles, Jordan Maglich, is looking to talk to “Zeek critics” to do a story on the backstory. He has followed some of the drama from the last few months and can be reached at ponzitracker@gmail.com.
You can search for “Jordan Maglich Zeek” in Google to see his Forbes and Ponzitracker.com stories.
Great on the payments being stopped. If anyone knows a site where we former Zeek folks can go to share practical info on this nightmare, I’d appreciate that info.
I don’t want to go somewhere, however, where they are having pity parties and/or drinking the Zeek Kool-aid. Just no nonsense, it happened…let’s move on…how can we help each other from a practical standpoint.
I really feel like I’m kind of in the way here because technically our posts are off topic. ????
Hello fine people 🙂 (sounds bewitching doesn’t it?)
Has anyone here recovered money invested in Zeek through Payza by filing a dispute in their resolution center ??!
Daniel,
YES, possibly you may be able to get your money back, and for anyone else:
Many of the money orders and checks that were mailed into the NC office were NEVER cashed! Check with your bank or wherever you got your money orders. You have to have your receipt.
It’s very important you use careful wording. Tell them that your money order appears to be lost. (I know this works because I did it this morning and got my money back that I sent on July 15th. Many other people within the team I was on have gotten theirs back as well, some that sent the full $10,000 even!)
Your bank can check to see if your M/O was cashed – if it wasn’t, tell them you’d like to put a ‘stop-payment’ on the m/o or check – you may have to pay a fee, but the fee is worth getting your $$ back.
The fee just depends upon your bank and what type of accounts you have with them. I didn’t have to pay a fee, so it just depends. DO NOT TELL THEM THE SEC CLOSED DOWN THE COMPANY! They may very well give you a hard time; you can still get your $$ if you tell them, but there’s specific wording you have to use, and it’s too lengthy to go into this post.
I know of people who’ve gotten their $$ back from checks they sent in June. Even if you sent them $$ in April, May or June, I would still check and see if my check was ever cashed.
I wish you all the best in getting your $$ back Daniel, and everyone else who reads this post as well. Time is of the essence, so I would do it asap.
Also…for the monthly subscription fees, if you paid by credit card, you can dispute the charges. You can go back at least 90 days, possibly 6 months. Some of the credit card companies are aware of the SEC filing and they shouldn’t give you a hard time at all.
After joining just last month and sending $500, plus the “Diamond” subscription and the $29.95 compliance (what a JOKE!)/website fee, I was able to get ALL my money back today.
Good luck to everyone reading this…spread the word among others you know too so they can try and recoup their $$ as well.
Thanks, Kui…will go there later.
QMark – I was able to request a check in Payza today. Seemed to go through just fine…check is supposed to be here this week. I won’t hold my breath but hoping…wasn’t much but just want to close everything out ASAP.
Kui, I subscribed at that site to the news letter and received the update. It’s information that is still from Friday. It seems there are practical things unfolding that we could help each other with that would be best accomplished on a blog site.
For instance, because I read online either this site or Troy’s earlier in the day I found out about the cashiers checks possibly being held and the possibility that they could maybe stop payment. It may save a friend $10,000….stuff like that.
If any of you experienced bloggers have any suggestions, please let us know. I’m new to all this so am clueless…thanks.
@Mitch
I think it’s great that the media are finally taking an interest in Zeek Rewards, now that they’ve been shut down and scammed millions of people through their Ponzi scheme.
Can’t say I’m impressed with the timing though. Where have they been since January 2011?
That said I’ve been thoroughly impressed with The Dispatch’s efforts. Good on them for putting the legwork in and not just regurgitating what comes down the press wire. You can see an example of their thorough coverage above.
That said I’m not about to go chasing reporters just to get my name in a paper. I’ll be where I’ve always been, right here covering MLM as best I can.
ZeekNoMore – thanks. What exactly do you mean by request a check ? I was referring to a chargeback of my money transferred from Payza to zeek… Using their resolution center and filing a dispute. Wondered if anyone had used this option in regards to zeek.
Here’s the latest from The Dispatch concerning the newly appointed receiver and frozen Zeek Rewards funds:
QMark – Sorry. No, mine had nothing to do with a chargeback. Mine was simply withdrawal of all Payza funds via check through mail which was free vs. other delivery methods that were too expensive for the little I have in there.
I have a suggestion for dooly. Since he continues to rant about the fact that this case isnt going to court so we will never know the real truth concerning the ponzi issue, he could launch his own site modeled after zeek with no changes no tweeking exactly like zeek when it was shut down.
He could call it troys epic dream and when the sec knocks on his door he can just thumb his nose at them and say i want my day in court. Then as he sits and listens to the guilty verdict he will know first hand what the outcome would have been.
“It’s a process,” Bell said
A 3 year one. For those sitting around still hoping the government is going to rescue your money, don’t. Put your energy into making money.
@ZeekNoMore
BehindMLM is all about sharing relevant information so I’m happy for the discussion to continue on the topic of money recovery outside of the court appointed receiver’s efforts.
With over a million members this is obviously going to be at the immediate forefront of a lot of people’s minds so any help they can be offered the better.
I myself not being a member nor going through the process won’t be of much help but I’m sure those sharing their experiences will be of some benefit to others reading.
mlmhelpdesk has a new entry. There’s a recap of the ZEEk follies as seen by Len Clements.
Zeek victims need to exercise caution when attempting to reclaim money.
The Court order contains the following:
(highlighting mine)
FYI, under US postal regulations cheques already mailed or in transit are the property of the the sendee i.e. Zeek and are therefore subject to the freeze and the property of the Receiver.
Some of the ASD folks tried to organize a “million-member march” on Washington after the seizure in 2008. Never came off.
In the “3 Hebrew Boys” Ponzi in South Carolina, some people actually did show up to a march. The “3 Hebrew Boys” later were sentenced to the longest Ponzi terms in South Carolina history.
At least one of the “3 Hebrew Boys” declared himself a “sovereign” being. Didn’t work.
Among other things, the “3 Hebrew Boys” acquired a Gulfstream jet and a party bus.
In the Botfly LLC Ponzi caper in Florida, someone actually ponied up $50,000 to pay for the Ponzi schemer’s defense — this AFTER he flew to Europe on his victims’ money after Florida brought the charges. He later came back to the United States and ensconced himself in a swanky hotel overlooking Central Park in New York City.
Over time, the ASD case devolved into a situation in which there was a call for a “militia” to storm Washington. There also was a call for a federal prosecutor to be placed in a torture rack. The judge was declared “brain dead” and on the take if she didn’t rule in ASD’s favor.
PPBlog
The most anyone could have lost of their initial investment is $10,000 per account, plus any credit card purchases they may have made such as initial membership of $10 to $99, and $10 month ad “autopilot” fees, or maybe a few “leads” for $2 a piece. Most people did not inject near that much.
My point, big deal, go sell some Krispy Kreme donuts, mow some yards or something before you fret about the mistake you made, and dwell on wondering if the government will return any funds.
Stop payment on any checks that did not clear, dispute any credit card charges, and be done with it. As things fall out, you will register for restitution, and might see a check of some amount in a few years and you will have some unexpected Christmas money.
That is DEFINITELY not good advice.
There is a court ordered asset freeze in place.
See my post #654 above.
You’re doing it again.
You’re believing what you’ve been told by Zeek WRT account sizes.
Doesn’t your common sense kick in at some stage, or have you not read the SEC complaint documents ??
There were members cashing out $35,000 a DAY at times.
Do you honestly think Zeek was running a scam in which hundreds of millions passed through its’ accounts, yet, it was going to hold someone to a $10,000 account limit ??
I simply cannot imagine anyone at Zeek telling someone with 20 grand plus in cash in their hand desperate to deposit “No, sorry, you can only deposit 10 grand”
From what I read their are people who set up 1 account for them, one account for spouse, and one under an llc. So they lost 30,000.
I received this by email with the author wishing to remain anonymous so I’m just passing it on:
@littleroundman
Your taking a generalization and running with it. By and large you were not allowed to buy more than $10,000 of initial bids. I definitely would not bet against you that that rule was broken by some, but By and large a small percentage of people threw $10,000, and lost the entire amount.
However I can congratulate myself with a dumbass trophy as I invested $10k in two accounts and got zero back.
Highlights from Troy’s latest video:
– Zeek is not a Ponzi
– Zeek may have $500M in funds and SEC will find profit share was paying as promised
– An international ponzi ring of organized criminals was responsible for infiltrating Zeek
– Expect RICO charges
– He apologized to Monavie family but not for being wrong on the Ponzi, but for not calling them out privately. He says Randy was still wrong to call Zeek out publicly, even after the SEC shutdown proved Randy (and us) correct
Official email from nxpay, under order to freeze all assets affiliated with Zeek. Accounts will be reconciled to figure out which funds came from Zeek and which belong to the account holder.
First look into the hubbys Payza account. Fees to receive the money from Zeek are quite substantial. I wonder how they will handle that, gives me a bad feeling right there.
Bank transfer/wires are unavailable. Check option seems open, but seems better to leave everything alone at this point. Also a boat load of payments to Zeek in there, lots of $10 and $100. Some say subscription, some just say payment to.
Not sure why there are so many payments out, but I hope they take all that into consideration.
I don’t mind giving it all back, but I sure don’t want it to cost me.
@Oz
The story you shared is what I was referring to in my post. It has been posted that there were several months of checks sitting unopened.
Littleroundman, thinks this is bad idea. I understand his point, but you could be damn sure I would stop hold that check if I were in that situation.
Not strange at all.
Google “Suspicious activity report” then “MANDATORY Suspicious Activity Report” and then do the same for “bank secrecy act”
Unfortunately despite the best intentions of those trying to point out the reality of SARs and the BSA, particularly after Zeek had its’ US bank accounts closed, it was simply drowned out by all the happy, crowing Zeeksters.
The guy who signed up my husband in Zeek, pushing vitel on his downline already. This guy has some balls I have to say. Not even a few moments of guilt?
All this is really getting beyond belief.
Re. Troy’s latest video:
He keeps going on about Ponzi organisations infiltrating MLM companies but maintains that Zeek Rewards is not a Ponzi.
Troy seems unable to detach himself for the legalities and examine the Ponzi nature of Zeek Rewards from a practical viewpoints (following the money), which is ironically primarily what caused him to lead people down the garden path with cheerleading (“a court hasn’t ruled it’s a Ponzi, so it might be a hybrid…”).
“Ponzi organisations” can’t just infiltrate legit MLM companies and run a Ponzi scheme within them. A MLM company has to be using a Ponzi scheme business model in order for Ponzi players to participate in a Ponzi scheme.
As much as I want to, I can’t run down to McDonalds and get them to fix my car. They sell hamburgers and are not mechanics.
Similarly if a MLM company is legit and is using a sales based compensation plan that favours retail sales over internal consumption, there’s no way for anyone to join it and work it like a Ponzi.
If someone or an “organization” of people was/were able to join Zeek Rewards and “work” it like a Ponzi scheme, then Zeek Rewards itself was a Ponzi scheme. Period.
Why Troy is insisting otherwise I have no idea.
So, how many examples would you like before you believe there were an enormous amount of members doing it in one way or another ??
Oh, and I like your Zeek-like use of the qualifying “per account.
Apparently you’re still in a Zeekster mind frame where you nit pick those trying to warn others, while simultaneously believing Zeek wasn’t all lies, they restricted people to $10,000 accounts.
Here I’ll say it so you can make yourself “right”
MB is right, the most people could lose with their initial deposit is $10,000 PER ACCOUNT.
There are, however, thousands of people who had multiple $10,000 accounts, including a large number of households where 2 or more members of the household lost $10,000 EACH
@ littleroundman
That is terrible advice!!!!! I think anyoneone who has mailed a check to rex venture group after July 6th should check their bank to see if the check has cleared. I checked my bank today and it hadn’t cleared.
I put a stop payment on the check and it was all back in my account by this afternoon! I am soooooo excited! Lesson learned! Best wishes to all zeek victims, you are in my prayers!
exactly, i know a guy who lost $100K.
And to top it off, Troy Dooly’s son is in Vitel and Troy talks openly about that and his MLMHelpDesk site links to his son’s site as well.
A lot of affiliates purchased retail bids using a fake, family or friend account. The sum of these purchases exceeded $10k for some affiliates.
This was for the 20% commission + matching VIP points, and the convenience of using a credit card which Zeekler accepted for retail bids.
Recovering money under someone else’s account will be difficult.
Defending the claw back amounts will be difficult as well “but I didn’t make any profit, I bought in for $10k but $9k was using other people’s credit cards”.
This is MY money I used to buy bids. Just as if someone sent in a check with THEIR money and the check was not cashed.
From The Dispatch article I linked to earlier:
epic /facepalm.
Just figured out how to get the geen box 🙂 I don’t care what the court order says, Zeek didnt cash it and it’s mine again! What are they going to do, fine me?
@Oz
Troy seems to believe that if the company was in the transition of taking an experimental model that was failing absurdly, and robbed of ample time to beef up the RPP.
He seems to believe they were not giving the proper time to adjust, which of course is asinine. He further seems to believe that 98% is in error because they are not counting auction use “purchases” by the affiliates which is delusional. If the payouts were arbitrary, all other legal technicalities are a mute point.
Besides I’m still betting we are going to find the auctions themselves were grossly rigged or did not even function.
It seems to be he would be scared to maintain his “not agreeing with the SEC” stance when potential criminal charges will be exposed in the near future.
I read of a family who put 40,000 in and lost it all it seems, unless they are able to get any recoveries.
Seems this was all of their savings. I couldn’t help but think if you put all of your savings into something like this, then perhaps you deserve to lose it.
Hey, he made more points then he has in his life! Don’t tear him down.
@Jimmy
Those were cheaters trying to cheat crooks. Those don’t count under my generalization.
That’s not advice, that’s the law.
Please don’t believe me, ask a lawyer
So if I made 20k in 2012 and had no freakin idea it was a scam ( everytime I asked a question I got a big everythings cool, auction is making big bucks, just place your ad )I payed off debt with that money I had know idea I was ripping off someone, there gonna come after me !?
NOBODY deserves to be robbed by criminals.
EXACTLY MB! littleroundman you can’t tell me you wouldn’t put a stop payment on your check if you were in our situation, get your money back now or in 3 years?
I put in 5k along with another 1k for subscriptions, the fake “compliance course, and the “buying of customers.”
I do not expect to ever see a penny of it, but I sure want to see others get some of their losses back.
I also would like my Recruiting “FRIEND” to call me and at least apologize, or even try to explain how he can live with the 40K a month, and whatever his wife made???
I have been friends with them both for 20+ years, and now I really wonder what kind of friends I have…..This is a real “EYE OPENER” for me.
Good luck to everyone that got taken by someone they knew.
5 of my relatives were able to put a stop payment on their cashier’s check, they were at the bank first thing Saturday…thanks to someone who posted here, kkat or something…a few of us were not so lucky, our cashier’s check were just cashed Monday last week.
@littleroundman
If you don’t get to the post office before 4:29 PM and 30 seconds, they will shut the door in your face every time. I stood line see the National Archives last year for 20 minutes and the security guard closed the door in my face, and I had to go back the next day. Your point is taken. I believe this generation is plenty indoctrinated about fearing the government. As for me, if that check is still unopened, it is rightfully mine and I would cash the damn thing.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mKLizztikRk
It’s easy.
The receiver contacts all banks and advises them they need to reverse any cheque cancelling after the date of the court order, the bank does so and the money is automatically taken out of your account.
Same as if a cheque you’ve deposited bounces AFTER you’ve accessed the funds. The bank simply removes the amount from any remaining funds.
Zeeklers can argue until they’re blue in the face, that’s how it works in the real world.
It happened in the ASD case and, I’m in no doubt it will happen here, too.
In fact, gazing into my crystal ball, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised f the receiver was a lot harsher this time than receivers have been in past ponzi fraud cases.
@MB
Paying out a daily ROI with 98% newly invested money isn’t an expermimental model though, it’s a Ponzi scheme (regardless of whether it goes to court or not).
Affiliates purchasing bids is internal consumption (affiliate investment). Anyone arguing otherwise is deluding themselves because (to the best of my knowledge) courts have already differentiated between internal consumption and retail (Burnlounge and their 3% actual retail revenue).
Affiliate money is not retail.
Zeek didn’t care about the law, why should I? I’m not ripping anyone off, I’m just getting MY money back
. Not scared!
Len Clements’s Zeek review may be too little too late, but it is a good read. He does call out some issues we have been harping on forever here including the banking oddities “we moved to a bigger bank on our terms but you have only 4 days to cash outstanding checks” non-existent OFAC sanctions.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103379852/MLM-Analyst-Len-Clements-Reviews-What-Happened-To-Zeek-Rewards
Clements is not convinced it is a Ponzi. Troy Dooly is using this ‘expert opinion’ to back up his own view that Zeek isn’t a Ponzi.
Umm… Mr. clements, even if Zeek lowered the % rate, they still wouldn’t have enough money to pay it out. And the scheme would have collapsed as no one would invest for negative ROI. HELLO.
See, it’s not about me, or what I think.
What I’m saying is a completely pragmatic reporting of what “IS”
Nothing to do with me.
ITS’ THE LAW.
It’s one of the consequences talked about when they say for the victims of fraud, it’s not just about the money.
You CAN be asked to refund profits
You CAN be asked to return cancelled checks to the receiver.
Cheques “in the mail” ARE subject to the freeze order
DON’T BELIEVE ME ASK A LAWYER.
@Almost burned
I don’t think you really meant it that way. We have to follow the law.
My point to littleroundman is although his advice is valid, I personally would be a “good citizen” and expedite the process more quickly instead of waiting on them.
If there are consequences I would be willing to take this risk personally for what is fair and common sense and without fear of the government, who is supposed to be on my side.
What money? It’s in an offshore account, LOL. I’ll deal with it in 3 years! Thanks for the advice though!
Ok. I get it. But at least it is my hands for now.
I stand corrected, THANKS!
Yep, I am a very honest person and would never intentionally break the law, good thing I read this blog AFTER I got my money back 🙂
Now I feel a little guilty….but not guilty enough to hand over my money AGAIN! Why is it I feel guilty? It is a sad world we live in!!!
Just watched Troy’s video. I’m nowhere near as smart as you guys/gals who are experienced here and have great analytical minds. I’m just trying to get my head around what he’s saying.
Seems he thinks it’s not a Ponzi model…that bad Ponzi guys infiltrated and somehow messed up the business model. How can that be? If there were never customers to create revenue, then of course money was being paid out to the little Founders Club with investors’ money down the chain? Duh! I mean it’s basic.
And then about Dawn in July, last month, a year and something into the business venture, acting all dumb about the need for customers. Troy, this is way more than mismanagement. HELLO!!!!!! Hey, we have a family business…no customers, we’re toast.
One more thing that is irking me…the little commercial for Thompson and Burton! It’s way too early for we ex-Zeekers to make any decisions. Here he goes again…making recommendations he shouldn’t be making.
@LRM – What about checks mailed FROM Payza TO affiliates postmarked say, 8/13~8/15? … Checks that affiliates might have deposited already but haven’t cleared their banks yet?
Clements uses a lot of analysis we produced here. For example, I was the first to use “bid inflation” AFAIK.
Lots of other tidbits taken from BehindMLM and other sites.
Clemens has some details wrong on how the bids being given away works, free vs. retail, and doesn’t mention the act of affiliates buying retail bids as their own customer.
You would think he would’ve picked up on that since he did “borrow” a lot of analysis from BehindMLM and we’ve done nothing but talk about that… but then again, maybe he didn’t read through all 5000+ comments either.
I was talking a while back to a therapist that I know and asked her about the mindset of serial killers and those that torture people and animals. She said that they are psychotic and have no empathy for others so they feel nothing.
Interesting analysis and when it comes to money I see the similarities.
It’s interesting, as an outside observer, to see that the latest ones to get into Zeek are just trying to get whole again but some of the ones that have made a lot of money don’t care how they made it and want to sue to get Zeek going again and to start making it again.
It really shows their mindset of greed and a total void of ethics. I hope the clawbacks claw deep into the users of others. These people are as bad Burke and his cohorts and just as guilty.
J Clark, it’s the definition of a sociopath. No remorse, move on to the next thing and keep the game going.
I hope so too!
Qbids might want to consider getting toilet paper with a pic of Dooley’s face on it and see how well that gets bid up.
Len, this doesn’t make any sense.
The % rate would have to drop SIGNIFICANTLY in order to not completely bankrupt Zeek. In fact, it would have to drop so significantly the company would have gone out of business – not to mention live through 90 days of uproar and outrage.
Let’s assume:
– Averate daily rate of 1.5%
– Starting balance of 974,399,142 on day 1
– $162 million was purchased on 7/15/2012 (day 60). We use 7/15 to approximate the average of $162 million in revenue in July. We have to put this money in July, rather than on day 1, because it affects the 90 day points expiration.
– 3 billion VIP points in circulation as of 8/16/2012 (day 91)
Using the above, day 91 shows a VIP point balance of 3 billion and factors in the 90-day point expiration.
Now… here is the important part! If beinning on 8/16, if all affiliates switched to 100% cashout, factoring in the 90 day points expiration and the VIP point balance of 3 billion on 8/16, here are the results:
In other words, even if you dropped the average rate from 1.5% to 0.15% (cut it by a factor of 10), Zeek would still go bankrupt after 90-days.
In conclusion: reducing the % rate only results in a collapse of the system, NOT sustainability !
Is anyone willing to publish a list of names of the top scammers in the Founders Club? Is there a web site where people can post who they know were in at the top?
I know, risky to their lives and all that, and I hope there is a RICO investigation and criminal prosecution … these people do not belong in our industry.
My advice, and, IANAL, nor do I play one in a TV series is to ASK before you do anything.
As in, contact the receiver in the first instance.
@LRM – That makes sense. Thanks.
@Melody, if there is one, or if one comes online, I’d sure like to know about it. I know three that either were in the founders club, or are right below it.
In either case, I know that they knew full well what they were doing to the hundreds of people they personally recruited. Not sure if they’re still laughing about it though.
Unfortunately, Clements is going to find out the hard way NONE of it makes any sense because NONE of it is true.
It’s a TV series, without cameras.
IT’S ALL FAKE.
It’s nothing but computer programs designed to make it LOOK LIKE a penny auction.
How much more proof does he need than the words of REAL experts, the SEC.
Less than 2% of revenues came from penny auctions.
Which means 98% didn’t.
What, is Lenny implying 2% vs 98% of $600+ million leaves any room for doubt it was fraud ??
It never was MLM, it was ALWAYS a fraud dressed like an MLM.
I’ll agree with you 10%.
It’s easy for us critics who viewed the scam from the outside to proclaim it as a scam.
If you’re INSIDE, then you will be swept up by the emotions, the groupthink, and so on to skip all the common sense and due diligence, and affected by every trick in the book like confirmation bias, foot-in-door technique, Sammelweis Reflex (all of which are real, go look them up) to stop asking questions.
That’s why I only agree with you 10%. Yes, they *could* have known better, and *should* have known better. But they don’t DESERVE to be scammed.
Hey OZ(and anyone else for that matter).
Does anyone know if adsmartz (who provided the robot to place ads at $10.10 per mth, even after we were told by the zeek nazis we had to to it ourselves in july) were run by anyone who is associated with burks,Olivaries or others from zeek?
When one tries to sign in there they say they wont even return cash to anyone who has a yearly subscription and they wont stop charging till the 21st, this tuesday.
Hope the SEC looks into those guys to see who runs that.The ads they placed were a joke as i tried so many times to tell people in zeek or affiliates. They just didnt want to listen.
Restitution website will be up later in the week.
http://www.walb.com/story/19325266/us-district-court-appoints-kenneth-d-bell-as-temporary-receiver-over-rex-venture-group-llc-dba-zeekrewardscom
What’s really pathetic is there are STILL supporters of Zeek in lexington in denial
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120820/NEWS/120829997?p=5&tc=pg
I’m learning a lot about cult psychology from following this story … your posts are very educational. Thanks for staying with it.
Is Dawn hiding in your basement Oz??? 🙂
I’ve been talking with my associates in a real product-based, commission-based company who keep saying really “good, ethical” people were fooled, and that does not make them bad people who will act unethically in our business. But they were cross recruiting for a scam!
Some were at the top of my company … I say that it is impossible that they didn’t know if they were near the top and taking out large quantities of money.
MAYBE they were not Founders Club insiders, but how could they believe such an obvious and easy to prove scam? I know, psychology of deception, cults, and all that. Obvious to us, not obvious when you are deep within and it’s working.
@Melody, I certainly respect your thoughts on the matter, and I’m sure a good many of such associates were indeed hoodwinked. But not the three guys I’m thinking of…
Troy answers the “how much did you get paid” question and points fingers at Dr. Keith Laggos yet again:
Posted on MLMHD, hasn’t been approved yet
Classic Dooly deflection
Troy on why he didn’t call out Zeek as a Ponzi and a scam even though Oz & gang did from the beginning:
Troy sure is upset about the deal Paul Burks cut. His view also is Burks threw the rest of the employees “under the bus” by lawyering up with criminal attorneys.
NCDOJ warns all Zeek victims not to fall victim (again) to Reload scams:
http://www.ncdoj.gov/News-and-Alerts/Alerts/Watch-out-for–reload–scams.aspx
Thanks for the compliment. I learn by reading… a lot. I’ll refer you to some more links on this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-hassan/main-street-bubble-of-mul_b_816996.html
http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php
http://kschang.blogspot.com/2010/08/tvi-express-has-some-cult.html (disclaimer: this is my blog)
A question for the knowledgeable people here.
I have been having a ‘discussion’ with my (former) upline regarding Zeek, who says the people who made large profits will never have to pay any back ‘because they can prove it came from the previous days sales’.
My initial reaction is that this is nonsense, as I don’t recall such figures being anywhere?
I know this is just probably further denial at work – just after some second opinions. Thankfully whilst I didn’t do enough due-diligence when I joined (3-4 months ago) – I retained enough common sense to only put a small amount in ($400-500).
Rest assured I will be extra extra super careful in the future 🙂
BH
Nope.
There were no “previous days’ sales”
What there was, though is “previous days members fees rebadged as previous days’ sales”
That’s the whole thrust of the SEC complaint.
98% of all income came from members fees and only 2% came from the auctions/sales.
“CLAWBACKS” are a fact of life in receiver appointed fraud cases.
Ask the charities involved in the Madoff case who were asked by the receiver to pay back what they (the charities)considered to be legitimate returns, but were, in fact, proceeds of the ponzi.
Ask Matt Gagnon who was penalized $4.2 million for promoting the Legisi HYIP ponzi fraud
Harsh, yes, but the reason I’m an advocate for more severe punishment of the “Andy Bowdoins”, “Bernard Madoffs” and “Paul Burks” of this world.
Your upline is still in denial.
SEC complaint put it very plainly: 98% of revenue is from affiliates (buying bids and such). only 2% of revenue is from auctions.
There is no “profits” from “previous day’s sales”. It’s other affiliates’ money.
Ill-gotten gains through fraud are to be coughed up for restitution. Paul Burks already coughed up 4 million (and may face MORE clawbacks in the future, albeit not by SEC).
Heck, even Laggos, the consultant, had to cough up over 10000 he received when he was caught several years ago helping some scammers do a pump-and-dump by publishing some fake news in his newsletter (NOT NMBJ) without disclosing he was being PAID to publish those news instead of real news.
That’s what I figured, thanks LRM. I do agree entirely with you regarding harsh penalties for the folks who start these things.
I wonder what will eventually happen to Paul, Dawn etc if any criminal charges are brought.
BH
I personally haven’t looked at them, and I don’t think there are. I’ve seen “firms” that supposedly post ads for Zeek affiliates MONTHS ago, and supposedly they’ve been around 2011, as soon as ZeekRewards started.
However, I have suspicions that Bessoni’s ZCustomers is far more involved than “lead generation”. How else are they able to create customers in Zeek’s system?
Proof? No. Suspicions? Definitely. And I said that when they’re first mentioned here.
Oz commented on this previously, see this comment (with screenshot): https://behindmlm.com/companies/zeek-rewards/peak-usa-llc-lead-generator-linked-to-zeek-rewards/#comment-79914
Reading back at some comments… it’s kinda funny some people don’t see writing on the wall.
http://kschang.blogspot.com/2012/06/checking-up-on-ex-tvi-dave-kettner.html
Mr. Kettner sure was right about breaking records. Gotta give him that.
@mac
Not a chance!
I would just like to clarify that I reviewed Zeek Rewards, not the people running it.
Guilt is a legal term, I focused and only focused on the business model. Any mention of the people behind it served only to reenforce this position.
I never got caught up with the people behind the Ponzi, I didn’t know them when I initially reviewed Zeek Rewards and in the interests of impartiability kept it that way (and just to clarify before anyone asks, at no point was I reached out to by anyone at Zeek Rewards).
You cannot remain objective when you have skin in the game. And it’s worse when you’re running around telling people you don’t have skin in the game when you do.
What I am trying to get my head around is how far will the claw backs reach?
I mean say you were an affiliate started at 10,000 and withdrew a total of 40,000 obviously a lower earning affiliate considering some of the ridiculous figures withdrawn by others are these people safe?
Say they used payza and paid it into their real world accounts anyone have any thoughts? (They may have spent it ?) What if they live outside the US ?
It was my understanding the top people were the ones that got done and everyone else is considered a “victim”
People who run it are irrelevant, except in taking a guess on their FUTURE direction.
Take Yahoo for example. Is Yahoo in trouble? Absolutely. Hiring Marisa Meyer doesn’t change that. It simply provides hope that she can change things around Yahoo.
Thus studying the executives instead of the business itself is simply bogus.
As for innocent until proven guilty…. This ain’t court. We’ve gone over “it ain’t crime until convicted” fallacy many times.
Troy has been going on and on in his last video and in replies to comments on his blog about his belief that an international Ponzi ring has infiltrated Zeek and they are, at least partially, responsible for transforming Zeek into a Ponzi.
I’ll ignore that discussion for now since Oz and K. Chang have covered it above.
What I wanted to address was Troy’s insistence on this tidbit (emphasis is mine):
This is classic Dooly taking one small tidbit of information and extrapolating into something that is unlikely (he did this with other tidbits and reached the wrong extrapolation: OFAC sanctions, banking situation, NC AG CID, voluntary shutdown, SEC’s civil complaint).
If I were to put my expert analysis hat on, I would simply apply Occam’s Razor and conclude:
Maybe the SEC worked with its Canadian counterparts not to bust an international Ponzi ring, but simply because…
…WAIT FOR IT…
…WAIT FOR IT…
SolidTrustPay and AlertPay (before they became Payza) are based in Canada! The SEC needed to see both sides of the financial transactions, obviously! They can access data for Zeek’s US banks and NXPay as they are in the US.
To complete the picture, they needed access to SolidTrustPay and AlertPay transactions. What easier way than to engage the SEC’s counterpart in Canada?
Isn’t that a MUCH simpler and more probable explanation than an international ring of organized Ponzi scammers that somehow took over the Zeek comp plan by force and RICO charges are forthcoming?
I’m just an amateur, if I can figure this stuff out…
No one knows for sure.
Having said that, it is entirely possible that the receiver comes down hard and heavy this time.
Many observers noted the AdSurf Daily ponzi prosecution signalled a change of strategy by the authorities and predicted the task force would handle the next big HYIP ponzi fraud differently.
BTW, Nxpay announced today it is co operating with the receiver and complying with the freeze order, which puts to rest the claim that online payment processors are a safe way to avoid detection.
IM(very)HO, it will come down to the receiver balancing the cost of chasing down “winners” against potential returns for the receivership.
With the amount of Zeeklers openly boasting about $30,000plus “winnings” I can imagine the receivers’ parameters of who’s worth chasing will be a lot different than previous ponzi prosecutions.
What if you recieved money today from STP ? What to do with it now that we know it was ill gotten ??
Take the money out of stp. If the SEC request it back, then you give it back.
Agreed K Chang . Everytime you post I have homework lol. This Thread will create doctorates in Ponzi Scheme identification for those who check out your supporting references- thanks
Epic facepalm here too. I really believe that when affiliates were coming here and other places claiming they were making X amount of dollars and making more money than they’d ever made in their lives, they were actually talking about VIP points and not actual dollars in their bank accounts.
When I was a kid I used to rack up a lot of points playing Asteroids in exchange for my quarters. However I was never naive enough to expect to cash them in for money. But in reality they’re worth exactly the same as Zeek Rewards VIP points.
Just talked to my nephew last night for the first time in a long while, and he said that he and his mother (my sister) had invested in Zeek. She got in in late July and he got in a couple weeks ago.
She had invested $1000 and convinced him to put $1000 in, which as a 19 year old college student he could ill afford to lose. Well luckily he said that he’s going to be able to get his money back, and my sister as well.
This is the same sister of mine who got involved in an MLM called Syntek Global selling fuel treatment. I guess that went bust for her so she decided to join Zeek in hopes of recovering her losses.
She’s still in denial about Zeek being a ponzi as I was sitting there while my nephew talked to her on the phone. Apparently she claims that the government shut down Zeek because they were making too much money(!) and not because it was an illegal ponzi.
At first my nephew also said it wasn’t a ponzi because people were getting paid, but after I explained how ponzis work he was convinced. It’s amazing how far the tentacles of Zeek spread. With around a million victims, there are going to be lots of people who know someone who was involved.
Site set up for infor on the zeek reciever, pposted on the NC AG fbook page. Dont know if this has been posted yet.
http://zeekrewardsreceivership.com/Index.html
@Joe Mama,
Could please share with us how your nephew & sister managed to get their money back so quickly?
Have been following your thread since the announcement of zeek shut down. A couple shared this opportunity with my husband in January 2012. He brought it to me and I was not at all wanting to dive into another MLM. MLM’s are a lot of work and my plate was full.
Well in Feb, I said o.k. Went in as a silver. As my husband and myself were learning the business, we had tons of questions. We would ask and then the answer was never given.
Example, why is the sky blue? Answer, well, you see the grass it grows at a rate of 1 inch per…blah blah bla.
We never invested! We were invited to a group on FB and I could not stand the kummbya feel good crap. Never took the compliance test, etc. I was done.
Now to anyone who did take that test, did you not find it strange that someone wanted to censor your language? I mean! And no, I did not know the first thing about a ponzi.
Thanks for all the info and your hard work. Have learned from here. Oh, and no one told us to invest 1.000. Guess we asked too many questions!
These cultists are very dumb,ignorant, or sad. I dont know which one best describes them.
Reply to me on the NC AG website:
Yeah, just more denial. I think the splash pages on the zeek websites are giving these people false hope.
My sister also threw out the “no criminal charges were filed” line. But I really don’t think the largest ponzi in US history is going to go without criminal charges.
I think she and a lot of people have false hope that Zeek will get off by paying a $4 million fine and will reopen with business as usual.
Responding to some of the posts that are a bit old because I’ve been busy and just catching up on reading.
Melody – if you find the list of Founders Club members, I’d love to know where to find it as well. May answer some questions that have been rolling around in my head. For starters…
Chang – You know players…just wondering about Kettner who seemed to be shall we say a wee bit arrogant in that thread you posted…typical for these guys. I have a feeling he’s pretty far at the top because all of our updates came from him and Disner (already know his history…just found that out the day before the crash when I was already suspecting a lot of fishy stuff).
I discussed it with my upline friend on many occasions about lack of communication from corporate, and we were both very frustrated that we couldn’t get questions answered by corporate. We had to rely solely on these guys to feed us crumbs if they weren’t gallavanting off to Hawaii and who knows where else.
I’m sure they were both pretty far up the ladder because they were the contact folks.
Chang – Thanks for the URL for the restitution siteinfo. I’ve decided I’m relying on no other former Zeek affiliates I don’t personally know because I don’t know who’s who in this thing.
Got what appeared to be valid info to we affiliates from an upline who I know is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I read it with a grain of salt…seemed to be good info for us…but I read it thinking, “Oh, look who’s trying to help we poor little stupid victims…victims who have padded your bank account for who knows how long. Well, guess what, you may have to cough up some to give back to me, jerk!”
Conversely, I trust you guys here. Thank you again for having integrity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chang – About ZCustomers…I smell a rat…will post more on that later from personal experience in the last few weeks. Questions, questions, were starting to crop up. Now they all add up.
Little Roundman – Hope you’re right about the harsher penalties after AdSurf. I think perhaps the Founders Club members maybe ought to be thinking about hiring bodyguards.
There are alot of people who once they get through the mourning process of what they’ve lost are gonna be really mad and be looking for someone to take it out on.
I think the other Ponzis in the MLM industry were sort of contained within that world. This one is going to have far-reaching effects because there are so many who are not MLMr’s like myself…which also may lead to more far reaching consequences than the sleazes are used to suffering.
You mention a change in prosecution strategy after AdSurf. I so hope you are right!!!!!!!!!
just like i told otis…..grandma pyle always warned us about ill-gotten gains!
Strictly my opinion, but, given the amounts being thrown around, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a rash of civil suits seeking compensation being taken against “uplines” .
I stand to be corrected, but if my understanding of US law is correct, anyone who received compensation for introducing others into a fraud automatically places themselves into a different category WRT liability.
IOW, sponsors have an obligation to ensure what they being paid for via referral fees was legit.
If the deposits made by some people were in the tens of thousands as has been reported, it then becomes financially viable to institute civil action against the referrer/s.
It will be interesting.
And another thing, (sorry, but gotta get it out) my husband would ask if he needed to buy bids. this to direct upline. They would say no, everything is good etc. It was a red flag. To me, in my gut, they knew it was a ponzi.
Of course they wanted us to recruit. I refused. I could not nor did I have the heart to bring someone into the, as they put it, growing pains. It would have been cruel. How could anyone in their right mind rationalize and say they were trying to help people and bring them into that mess?
I guess in the end it was pure greed. Sick, sick sick!
From Payza:
Just got off the phone with my wife who is working on figuring up how much my in-laws lost, and it’s somewhere around $6600 between funding their own account, my wife’s, and my wife’s cousin. Plus there’s some $2000 in credit card charges.
As far as action against uplines, this is another spot I’m fearful for them because they recruited A LOT of people. I believe half our town was in Zeek, a lot of them under my in-laws. This is of course not to mention the friendships and family bonds that will be strained or terminated.
I just wish they’d have listened to me when I told them it was probably a ponzi scheme.
I feel weird now… I’ve been waiting all summer for this to happen, and now that it has, I can’t even bring myself to gloat at the big dummy who alternately insulted me and tried to get me to join.
Some of the choicer insults were to call me a “moran” (sic) and (my personal favorite) “your a retart” (sic). Now it’s just kind of sad. Dude actually apologized to me. You could have knocked me over with a feather!
His upline (George, I think, I’d have to check my old e-mails for the last name) was such a big jerk that he actually started trying to CHARGE people at the door to listen to his stupid, cultish Ponzi presentations. And he was a check-flashing, back-office-points-bragging mofo, too.
And Todd Disner… now THAT horse’s ass knew EXACTLY what he was doing. After the ASD debacle, his downline should file a suit against him and his HYIP-playa butt. Scumbag.
I think that Zeek’s shutdown humbled a lot of people who, prior to the SEC’s action, were being very arrogant and smug about how much money they were making and what a great company Zeek was.
that is awesome!
Just a heads up-
The last week we realized the RPP was behind and when we asked our upline they told us to go into the Bid Give Manager and manually give away our bids. When we did this we realized the customers we had bought from Zcustomers.com had very suspicious names.
The day before the shutdown we logged in to manually give our bids away and one of the customers was our daughters first & middle name (which is not very common) & another customer was a name that happened to be a password in one of my online accounts. All the other customers were a name with a number at the end, these 2 were written out differently.
We are very freaked out about all the info we have blindly given all these companies access to: names, address, credit card numbers, STP: pictures of DL, utility bills, blank checks.
We are discontinuing our debit/credit cards and even switched banks. Who knows who these people are and what they could do with all the info they have. Just wanted to give anyone who is willing to listen a heads up.
He’s at the “bargain” stage of 5 stages of grief/loss.
He’s trying to “explain” the difference between his perception and the reality, and right now he’s trying to bargain the reality by adding an explanation on top of it, by blaming external influence.
The thing that really got me was how these people in Zeek would drop names of people and expect me to think that because those were in it was alright.
I finally told a friend I didn’t care if Barry Obama was in it that didn’t make it legal.
I wonder if Quiznos is going to have a new special… Sucker Sub with Ponzi sauce? That would be a version of the lobster salad sub, because fake pollack lobster is the closest his downline can get to real lobster now.
Maybe a Chocolate Fraud Brownie for dessert?
Folks, I just don’t understand Troy Dooly as all. He still thinks Zeekrewards is not an “investment or Ponzi”, but yet, he apologized to the president of MOnvaie and congratulating Oz for investigatory skills.
Is this old man still in denial?
Marley, I don’t get the Quizno comment. Did I miss something?
Todd Disner is one of the owners of the Quiznos chain. According to Wiki, “It is the second-largest submarine sandwich shop chain in North America, after Subway.”
Oh, wow…and he’s a big MLM’r, too. Gee, when is it enough for people? Greed, greed, greed…
Oh one thought that came to me: With the current vultures flying around trying to get Zeek victims involved in various new investment schemes, I think it’s not out of the question at all for victims to start receiving Nigerian scam-type emails purporting to be from a government agency offering to get victims their money back.
I’ve already seen such emails from Nigerian scammers offering to get funds back to victims of Nigerian scams (such irony), so I expect that if the news of Zeek’s shutdown hits Nigeria we can expect to see this happen.
The scam would typically offer reimbursement but require victims to pay various “processing fees,” etc. in order to get reimbursed, and keep stringing them along with promises that their refund is forthcoming.
They’ll probably even ask for CC#’s, which would open up victims to identity theft. This scam would rely on desperate people willing to pay to get whatever money they could returned.
In case you didn’t know, The Dispatch also has a forum. A different audience than here:
http://forum.the-dispatch.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3314&sid=f1b3b85ce2622a4df27557d091ed2626&start=20
Now that it appears Burks and Company will need a CRIMINAL attorney, Troy Dooly has just announced they have hired the “best of the best” MLM has to offer.
Jimmy – went there…it’s a bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacking. As a former affiliate who fessed up to my shortcomings and tried defending why my judgment lapsed, the last thing hurting people need right now are gloaters and people who like to make themselves feel better by putting others down.
The sociopaths at the top of the ladder of Zeek (bottom of the food chain, I might add) deserve what they get. Monetary success in Zeek was not exclusive to the Founders Club. I personally know people who did wonderful, awesome things with their money…humanitarian generous stuff.
So, if people have an ounce of compassion, please refrain from your insults. Think of the people that just need guidance and way out, a light of the tunnel right now. That’s why I like this forum…the judgment is almost nonexistent.
Instead I have found a lot of really smart people who have been able to distinguish between the scums at the top and those who may have done something stupid. Believe me, they are all paying for it in personal grief.
I’m finding that getting good information is helping me to cope and to share whatever positive and good information I can pass along to others.
So you just take their word? Pretty sad DD.
I know enough about the Ponzi scam industry not to get involved. I never made a Google Maps search, you have me confused with someone else.
Where are the US zeek-sheep of zeek facebook posting now? The NC AG facebook seems to be 98% foreign affiliates posters.
KC thanks for the heads up on Tracey Gilmond and adsmartz. I presume the SEC is monitoring this site. I will pass that info on to the people who need it anyway. I dont see why any parasites that were sucking on the belly should be allowed to keep feeding.
If any other affiliates have signed into the robot (adsmartz) they will see what i mean. If you have payed a annual subscription make sure when you make your application for some of the pilfered cash from your pockets the liquidator/arbitraors know about these bottom feeders tactics as well.
Thanks K. Chang. I actually read almost all your posts regarding zeek in May.
one of my best friends tried very hard to bring me into zeek since feb.2012. your posts and other posts here in BMLM, plus a phone call to BBB, i said “no” to my friend.
There were definitely inconsistencies in the way customers were found for our bids, something that put up red flags for me several weeks ago.
I didn’t deal with AdSmartz but bought “customers,” at least what I thought were real customers at the time, from the companypool.com (to be distinguished fron Zeek’s company pool that had been the source of customers for everyone up to that point in time.)
In retrospect, now I understand why their “fake customers” that I was silly enough to buy at $3 each had a different notification system to me as an affiliate (nonexistent notification system, I should say) than when I had posted new real customers, a few neighbors and friends myself.
I think all of the companies that our uplines told us we could buy customers from when we needed them in the future ought to be investigated. Betcha they were another way for the Founders Club to scam us.
Funny how hindsight is 20/20…
i agree. thanks choi for your response. i was asking myself (and still am) those same questions. Who are all these “experts”?
talk about a calculated snowjob!
Those who found BehindMLM early enough at least got to see us discussing these red flags, such as the when the 5cc was giving customers using male anglo-saxon Christian names followed by 3 digits. Yeah, that wasn’t a dead giveaway.
Thanks kc,oz and others for helping us lemmings.
I dont aim to leave things here with just the immediate zeek mob getting investigated. My aim is for the benfits of other australians who are getting duped by “serial ponzi opportunists” yes, thats right the ones who continually get involved in these schemes early, get their profits out while they are still actively recruiting others to pay for them.
I have a group in Australia in sight (and have hold of the tail of one) and some well kept records. I have given him and his group a short time frame to come clean on profits derived from zeek and other ponzis they introduced me and others too (and i did some research and exposed the schemes).
Those profits they will need to show me how and when exactly they will redistribute back to their downlines or I will be giving all that evidence to the ACCC and taxation office here …who take a dim view of tese form of parasites.
Thank Oz. He dug it up.
The problem is many of the recruitees end up in “cults of personality” where the upline simply use them as money trees, moving them from one organization to another, sending them out to recruit more… affiliates, while s/he propers at the top doing nothing except “inspiration”.
I know people who seem to still have no idea what has happened!
Sorry guys for nudging about this… But since so much is at stake… I’m wondering, I am trying to save the money I transferred to zeek from my Payza account by filing several disputes in their resolution section.
It says that the disputes are escalated since te “seller” has no funds, but in that case how can they retrieve my funds ?! If the SEC froze all company assets then there’s actually no chance for getting a single dime back, right ?
Btw, my escalated dispute requests have been pending for 4 days now…Would greatly appreciate any advise.
Thanks !
Upline: Join my new “program”!
Downline: But… but… I just lost money the last time!
Upline: Yeah, but if you keep following me from scheme to scheme, then maybe, MAYBE, I’ll let you in early on the next one. You’ll be RICH beyond your wildest dreams of avarice!
Downline: {with Igor voice} Yeeessss maaasssterrrr…
There do seem to be a lot of clueless people out there. Many of them are still in denial about it being a ponzi *cough* Troy Doofus *cough*, some claiming that Zeek is just going to pay a fine and go back into business soon.
BTW Troy should change his slogan from “Living an epic adventure” to “Living in epic denial.”
Troy just posted Greg Caldwell’s response to the Reddit IAmA. While Caldwell insists it’s all false, the reply he gave seem pretty sparse on details. You’d think he’d have a TON of data to prove that ‘confession’ false.
Troy’s YouTube embedding HTML isn’t working at the moment, but you can view the 10:28 video on YouTube, and read the comments with Troy’s highlighting of what Caldwell claims to be ‘completely false’ on Troy’s blog in red.
Interesting Caldwell is only really responding to 3 lines. Why can’t he say “this affiliate has NEVER EVER talked to Dawn before… show me the phone records, because I can GUARANTEE this never happened.”
That would be more convincing than pointing out some technicalities around the banking and NXPay. What about replying to the allegations about the Founders Club?
IMHO, you’re not going to get any money that way. All three eWallet providers have frozen ALL accounts associated with Zeek, from reports I got all over the net. All affiliates are affected.
I *guess* they are doing this in case they have to do any “clawbacks”.
You’ll just have to wait.
Frankly, I “feel” what Caldwell’s going through. He just got there a few weeks ago, and all of a sudden he’d been pushed into path of an oncoming train by no less than head of the company.
Those allegations are almost impossible to deny as they are sufficiently vague and *can* be constructed by someone who studied the scam from top to bottom AS WELL as someone who was truly on the inside.
He also have to watch what he says to Troy as anything he states to the public is gonna end up in SEC’s dossier on him when charges are brought forth. He may accidentally say something he may regret later.
Say something, and he may regret.
Don’t say anything, and appear to be hiding.
His life really sucks right now. He’s probably wandering why the f___ did I jump on this sinking ship?
Can I add created “experts” to that list?
IMHO, still a very weak response. It’s like someone accusing OJ and OJ responds “this part of the story is completely false, I did not buy a knife in May 2012”. Deny the major charge, or give no response. Responding and denying minutiae is classic PR blunder.
As far as Caldwell and the SEC, considering that he is new, he has the most plausible deniability of anyone. If anything, he should be a witness for the prosecution when criminal charges are brought up.
Jimmy, for all of you that were prophets in the wilderness for a time have certaIinly been vindicated by those who now have their blinders off.
I would like to think that had my questions not been answered real soon, I would have done a REAL due diligence and found you guys. I’m just thankful I didn’t bring anyone else down with me…yes, I lost more money than I can afford at this point in time…but I couldn’t have lived with myself if friends were now suffering because they trusted me.
You guys will never know how many people you saved from misery. Thanks on behalf of them!
so true!
Sorry to hear that thought K. Chang, but thanks all the same.
I should think that the least they could do though is inform me of the status of the dispute, or if the funds are currently frozen state that fact somewhere on their site. Thank you again.
Note: This comment is 100% hypothetical.
If I was the Receiver what I would do to recover as much $ as possible is setup an amnesty program. Something like:
– If you profited less than $50k (or some other amount)
– You can send the Receiver a check for 50% of your profits
– And be relieved of any clawback litigation
– Otherwise, you might be served with a clawback civil lawsuit
– If you profited more than $50k, expect a clawback civil lawsuit
They would recover funds a lot quicker this way than if they went through traditional clawback process.
Then again, maybe focusing on those who profited > $50k yields such a large % of funds that it’s not even worth it to offer amnesty.
After the 5cc was no longer available I called my upline to ask how to get customers. Personally I thought we were using our ads to get our customers.
It was then I began paying to get more visitors to my zeek sign in pages. My upline which had connection to someone in the upper crust informed me how to buy customers. So if he made 40k a month he must have been buying a boat load of customers to give 1000 bids too.
It was those kind of things that really started to show me Uhh Ohh. I was getting calls from friends asking to sign up under me because my upline was telling them I signed up, I refused to sign them up telling them I only put in 5k and the money was something I would not miss if I lost it.
Those people are so glad now I said no to them. It is going to be a rough few years ahead for my upline, especially being they signed up family, friends, and a lot of church members.
I wonder how you can preach to those you just took to the bank?
Good idea Jimmy.
“But I think I only made a couple thousand and didn’t keep very good records”
NCDOJ is having a hard time fielding complaints from all the Zeek affiliates trying to cancel checks. Apparently NCDOJ told all banks to NOT accept stop payment requests if the checks are paid to Zeek as it will interfere with the receiver’s court order to take over Zeek assets.
NCDOJ backpedaled slightly, now says it advised banks of the Federal court order as to responsibility of receivership and it’s up to the bank on how to comply. 😉
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120821/NEWS/120829990?p=1&tc=pg
IMHO, if you had sent a check, it now legally belongs to Zeek, even if it had not been cashed. it was received by them, it’s theirs.
Just watched Troy’s latest video.
I don’t believe the supposed “confession” by a Zeek top level affiliate is valid either.
However, regarding point #2, about the eWallets, aren’t Greg and Troy missing the point of the supposed confession?
They weren’t saying that people were trying to draw money out of the eWallets AFTER the accounts were frozen. They were saying that the reason they moved from paper checks to EWallets was because they figured some people would be confused on how to set them up, and therefore, less money would have to paid out by Zeek.
At least that is what I thought the point was when I read it.
Feds have great records… they have Zeek’s computers (including the servers).
I’m trying to figuer dooly’s motivation for insisting the SEC has it all wrong, from his red herrings like burk took only a small amount of the 600m (just 11m) to burk didn’t admit guilt, to the part where dooly says this investagtion was based solely on information from burk’s attorney.
These baseless statements are not worth contradicting, dooly is just confusing people with his “extensive experience in legal issues” his words.
I’m starting to consider the idea that dooly is just trying to cover his ass when criminal charges come his way by saying look at all my b.s. I have posted, I thought it was for real. When I look at dooly’s comments an his vids, his expert analysis doesn’t make any sence but when looking at it from a “cya” perspective it does.
At this point regarding dooly’s motivations, stupidity can’t be the cause; read his reply’s, although unsupported an unfounded they are not written by a idiot.
Thus my conclusion: dooly is a arrogant shill that thinks the more he keeps pushing the “i didn’t know idea” the better he looks among the zeek faithful and the prosecutor.
I hope dooly gets his in the end, I really think that depends on exactly how much money is listed under dooly in zeek financial statement or if his rhetoric is perceived as insulting to investigating agencys (insulting the AG, secret service and the SEC regarding there investigative skills, always a bad idea)
NCSECU seems more sympathetic toward Zeek victims…
Well, just found an answer to my eWallet question… To anyone who was wondering if he could possibly independently retrieve any money from his/her Payza or STP account… Here is the link to the receiver court order which unfortunately gives a definite nay to that possibility.
Look for the 3rd page – the chapter on “Asset Freeze” near the end of the paragraph :
http://www.zeekrewardsreceivership.com/pdf/Order.pdf
(more hypothetical ponderings by me – but I think this is a serious model the Receiver should consider)
Hah ha! The way it would work is the Receiver would send you a bill showing your profits, and a discounted amount you could pay to avoid civil clawback litigation.
Many would just send a check rather than take their chances. You can challenge the bill and say your profits were less (say you bought bids with a retail customer account), much like you would challenge an IRS or property tax assessment.
I’d like to see the numbers in a chart. If you look at all profits over $50k, what % of the total withraawals does that cover? In other words, how narrow or wide is the “pyramid”.
@Oz
I saw you have been invited as a speaker on “Starting and running the Successful MLM company” conference? 🙂
Jeff Babener, post #467:
I’ll guess that is a little outside your core area of interests, but it can be wise to give a meaningful answer, anyway. Communication with other organisations will probably become more important than it have been till now.
I can try to analyse it briefly and try to “read between the lines”.
The first part is an ordinary “congratulation”, theres’s nothing between the lines there (other than he starts immediately with identifying the professional role in it). This is clearly business related.
The second part is about their viewpoint, what they consider to be legitimate and sustainable penny auction MLM. I’ll guess he has one or more clients in that business.
In the third part he’s focusing on the problem in general, and how it affects the direct selling industry. Rather neutral, but he is clarifying his own professional viewpoints there..
The fourth part is the invitation. I can skip he last part, since that is about his company.
If there is anything between the lines here, it’s something like this:
A: “Congratulations. We are basically on the same side, but within certain limits.”
50% of the letter was about clarifying their own professional viewpoints, mixed with how big they are.
B: “We prefer to be on the same side, or at least have an open connection for future dialogues. You’re probably welcome to become one of us”.
I used a relatively “free interpretation” here, but I kept it in contact with the ground. You’re a new player in the same playing field as him, and he hasn’t been able to identify your position yet, how you will fit in with the other players.
I have tried to see the “between the lines” part from HIS viewpoint rather than your’s. He lives in a quite different world, figuratively speaking, where most of his clients and connections are on a corporate level, and where most of the people have relatively “normal” carrere goals, etc. — relatively easy to identify (and you’re not).
The “between the lines” method is about trying to identify what people REALLY asks about or try to tell you, and WHY they do it. It doesn’t have to be 100% correct, but I have seriously tried to see it from Jeff Babener’s viewpoint rather than my own.
I will probably have to correct it several times, but it should work as a starting point.
And then we can focus on an answer after a while. We can of course analyse it from the viewpoint “do you really have a story to tell?”, and from other viewpoints, too.
Babener was one of the lawyers featured on Dooly’s site too. I think the circle is only so large.
I think he’s doing damage control for the industry. kevin thopmson beat him to it though with that WTF happened essay.
I agree that we are essentially on the same side, albeit we are far closer to the center, as MLM skeptics / critics, while they, as attorneys, are MLM supporters.
I think they need to acknowledge that HYIPs, Ponzi schemes, and Pyramid Schemes can EASILY be disguised as MLMs… or perhaps, the dividing line that they want to draw is actually a pretty wide gray area.
I’ve written several essays on this viewpoint. 🙂
Just watched Troy’s video…He’s so obviously biased in favor of Burkes and the Diva…said more or less, “You critics who didn’t give Dawn any credit for having brains are now saying she and Paul pulled off the biggest Ponzi in history with the assistance of 7 bumbling local yocals in North Carolina.”
Therefore, they are not guilty, Troy? Because the critics said she was dumb? NEWS FLASH – They did pull it off…for a while.
It’s pointless how many administrative assistants they had in Lexigton. What’s more important is they had a more than willing “sales force” of the faithful Founders Club that accomplished it for them.
And for goodness sake, who cares where Darryl Douglas is now? We’ll find out sooner or later. If Darryl is MIA, unless I missed something, isn’t Dawn MIA, too? Or maybe Troy knows where she is.
Their whereabouts right now is not the point, Troy. Their role in all this is what’s important. Keep an open mind, Troy…it’s really not that hard to figure this one out.
@K.Chang
Not knowing the guy, he lost any and all credibility in my eyes with the ‘all out critics are unprofessionals acting on false information’ comment. In the capacity of a COO that was just too much. Especially when just a few weeks later the SEC blew it wide open and confirmed everything with hard figures.
I didn’t take Caldwell’s comment personally as the track record stood for itself but for an “expert” to come out with that… well let’s just say you can come out with that but you’re never going to recover from it. Caldwell will always be known as the guy who rubbished his critics declaring any and all criticism of his company was “unprofessional and false”.
I just cannot bring myself to trust or take anything Caldwell says with an iota of credibility.
While I’m at it, ditto Laggos and the rest of Zeek’s legal team and paid consultants. That said, out of all of them at least Dooly hasn’t shirked off into the shadows, although whether he can himself can recover from the stain of Zeek remains to be seen.
It’s not just the affiliates who walk away with their careers in tatters. Spare a thought for the next MLM company that touts any of Zeek’s paid consultants in an attempt to cement their legitimacy.
Thanks for the analysis M_Norway.
It’s worth noting that I received an email, allegedly from Babener, requesting a possible website partnership that was apparently going to be mutually beneficial a week or so back before Zeek went down.
The email requested I reply back to an AOL email address. After visiting the MLM Legal website I noted they were using a different email address (using an AOL email address when representing a law firm naturally made me suspicious).
In anycase, I wrote back only to request they contact me again from an email address listed on their website so I could at least confirm it was from Babener (I didn’t address the proposition or suggestion of one).
Immediately after sending a reply to the AOL address (which the email stressed I use to reply to), my email server notified me it couldn’t send the email (bounced for invalid address). No idea what the story was there so I just left it at that.
I knocked back Babner’s invitiation in the comments here (I assume he’s reading as he left the initial comment), primarily because it would detract from what I do and I don’t see any benefit from it other than a personal one ‘Well I spoke at blahblahblah so I know what I’m talking about‘(which I couldn’t care less about).
Blindly following people on their reputations and what they’d previously done is what got a lot of people into the Zeek mess in the first place, rather than evaluating what they were actually saying.
As for having a story to tell, between me and MLM there really is no story. I don’t have a history in MLM and I really am just a guy with a keyboard.
No fancy MLM qualifications, no fancy MLM connections, I’m not friends with everyone in the industry and I don’t have any track record in MLM analysis other than what’s been published here over the past three years.
Yeah, that approach would put those who made a small profit in a difficult situation – especially for the American former investors.
If you want to sent me the full email headers I’ll analyze it for you. 🙂 Learn it during spam tracking days. 😀
He’s using his own playbook: strong refutation. He needs to appear confident to appeal to his own masses, and say what the crowd wants to hear. Standard propaganda technique.
IMHO, there’s two ways he can play the critics angle: strong refutation, or beg for mercy. They can’t do beg for mercy, so strong refutation it is.
Either that, or we have to give him an award for knowing that the whole things a sham and he’s just there, captain at the helm of sinking ship, faithful to the end and all that.
Sorry but I still haven’t figured out to highlight in green..but in response to Oz’s remarks:
That is precisely why you have credibility and why many are listening to you now!!!!
@Kasey
Not too fussed with the emails so we’ll leave it for now, thanks for the offer though.
Re. Caldwell, whatever the reasons if he at some point pulls the “I only joined late” angle I won’t be having a bar of it.
When you’re a consultant in MLM (of all places) you had damn well be investigating who you’re going to consult or work for, or represent. Executive management? Even more so!
Other industries don’t accept this garbage and it’s high time the MLM industry held itself accountable. You want to put your name to a company and have them run around proclaiming their legitimacy? You bear full responsibility and take the credibility hit when they turn out to be one of the largest Ponzi schemes in US history.
There is no such thing as “they paid me so I rocked up to consult/represent them”. I mean hell, if the leaders of this industry aren’t doing their due diligence just what the f’ are they doing?
And “I decided Paul Burks was a great guy when I shook his hand” is not due diligence!
told ya so, told ya so, told ya so-Grace’s mom…LOL
It does prove one thing about the M.L.M. “industry” that many observers having been saying for a long time, though.
It’s entirely possible to spend thousands of hours, fill squillions of column inches and gain guru status while justifying and rationalizing something that really never existed in the first place.
The real tragedy is still to unfold. Many friendships and relationships will be destroyed by this Ponzi Scheme.
I never got involved, yet I have lost friends due to my insistence that I was not interested.
I had one friend (former friend?) storm out of my home cussing up a blue streak because I had to nerve to tell him that it looked like a Ponzi scheme to me. I know of several people who have gotten their entire family involved and the sad fact is most of these people didn’t have the money to lose.
The personal and emotional toll is going to continue long after the finances are settled. It is a shame that people couldn’t take a step back and spend 5 minutes looking at what they really were supposed to be selling, which was probably the world’s worst penny auction.
Anyone who only looked at the product and ignored the rah rah hootenanny sales pitches about everything but the auctions would have seen there was no future. With talks of clawbacks and lawsuits it’s going to go from grim to ugly real quick.
I saw some mention of Trudy Gilmond but couldn’t find the source of this comment. She told me just a few weeks ago that Zeek is the “real deal.”
Her “testimonial” on her calls each week are about her early relationship with Dawn, and she was now making over six figures a month. Her Facebook page is gone.
She and her partner sent out an email letting her “team” know they were investigating their next move and to stay tuned, and also to be cautious about who they choose to “sponsor” them in their next business.
Really? Really? Appalling actually, that there seems to be no remorse at the depth of this deception.
Yep,
The fallout from a fraud of this scale is way more than just about the money.
The effects on the lives of hundreds of thousands of real people is incalculable
Terralyn Hoy
Todd Disner
Dwight Owen Schweitzer
Jerry Napier
Trudy Gilmond
are all refugees from Ad Surf Daily ponzi.
http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/06/14/did-zeek-give-puff-piece-to-rep-who-signed-petition-for-u-s-senate-to-investigate-adsurfdaily-prosecutors-and-u-s-secret-service-agent/
So here is a thought, why coldlnt zeek have a product that every affiliate has to buy and it costs $100 dollars and is mandatory to buy by everyone each month and every month. no matter what level your at, since everyone says we have 1 million affiliates, well that means zeek makes an extra 100 million a month to pay towards payouts.
There r a few other ways to make this work too, like say having a cap on how much you can pull out every month, say 20k max and that’s it.
How about these ideas, I’m not an MLM expert but I think things could b done to make this work
What do u guys think
@Daniel – that wouldn’t work because affiliates who don’t stand to profit wouldn’t pay the $100/month. Money doesn’t come out of thin air… if you “put in $100 million per month” to pay off the account balances, you still have to “pay back $100 million per month” later.
Remember there are lot of free affiliates and those who put in less than $1k, the vast majority have put in less than $1k. Look at the median earnings from the 2011 IDS as a starting point, granted we are now 8 months past the 2011 IDS.
Mandatory self-purchase would get them labelled as pyramid scheme by the FTC. FTC requires significant portion of revenue to come from sales to NON-AFFILIATES.
And the result is the same: you are getting paid with your own money.
Like I said I’m not a professional scam MLM artist, just a thought the point was couldn’t there be something along these lines, of course free affiliates don’t get paid anyway so why would they get $ back, anyway……so if every idea that I have read is a scam and makes all of these pyramids, then why doesn’t the govt just shut all MLM down.
Point again, u would think there would b someway to make it work….I say this bcaus I know some moms work…..at least for a little while….
I give up, I look like a dick to all my friends and I let down my mom who is 70 and I was trying to help her so she doesn’t have to work, if MLM companies.
When teetering on edge of being pyramids leave so much destruction then why don’t investigation occur sooner and why don’t all mlms have to be reviewed in the beginning by the sec?
Maybe some hope on getting some or all of your money back!!! I work with a Zeekhead who told me today he was happy cuz a guy he enrolled in early June is getting all his money back.
He joined by mailing a cashiers check issued from his bank and inquired about the status today and found it was never cashed by zeek even though he was all set up and had an active zeek acct. I believe it was a few thousand but he put a stop on it and has his money back.
This gent may have just slipped through the cracks but it’s worth a shot. You are not going to know until after 90 days of purchasing a cashiers check if it was not cashed unless you inquire beforehand….so go for it!!
As I recall the NC AG started the investigation around that time so make your own conclusions.
Now as for my Zeekhead buddy at work…what a pain in the ass he’s been for the past 8 mos. He recruited almost everyone at our office and they all lived and breathed this BS which caused some serious divisions in the work place. It was like dealing with a cult every day!!
I have never seen such a scam turn seemingly well adjusted,intelligent people into comeplete morons void of any critical thinking of how this business model worked…
Lol the day it shut down they were freaking out then Bob got word from his upline that this is normal for all online businesses that are under investigation to shut down for a few days and get things straightened out and that a large group of zeekers were misrepresenting the business in Fl and that was the main concern…
also “We have to stand together as the team we are and Zeekler is gonna come out of this stronger than ever”…then some stuff about already being the most compliant online biz in the industry lmao.
Work has been great so far this week. Everyone workin harder than ever and focused on their job! Not a peep about Zeekler like someone boasting about having 100k pts or marginalizing me for being a skeptic.
Bob is feeling pretty low right now cuz he thought he was gonna quit a 60k/yr job in a few months. He showed me a printout of his daily payouts last month and his acct had over 300k points and about 5 pages of people he was getting commisions from in his downline and claims he never took a dime!!!
Thanks for this site cuz it helped me stay grounded in that environment and armed me with questions that couldn’t be answered by the zombies at work.
Had to get this rant off my chest cuz feel too sorry for my coworkers to rub there faces in it.Those of you that put money in the past 90 days should get to your bank and check out those cashiers checks. Best wishes, James
1) People need to complain first
2) There’s no guarantee that a company will CONTINUE to use the business plan filed… or just file a fake one.
@james anderson –
You’d think they would have googled “Zeek Rewards” or “zeekrwards” at some point and come across BehindMLM.
Or maybe they did but just ignored the analysis here, and now they are in shock.
Remind them that there may very well be clawbacks. It is so ironic that Dawn used that word for the checking issues.
Officially you can’t stop payment on a cashier’s check until 90 days, when it’s considered “lost”.
The bank may have made an exception.
Well, then at least he won’t receive a clawback lawsuit from the Receiver.
But he’s probably kicking himself for not cashing out some of that money. There is a chance that those who profited below a certain threshold won’t have those earnings clawed back, but no one knows yet.
There will be a lot of people on pins and needles waiting… it’s almost worse than waiting for IRS decision on a challenge to an audit.
You didn’t break the law by stopping payment on the check. If that were illegal, you wouldn’t even have that option. See, the feds don’t usually let banks offer services that are illegal.
Now, the feds could tell you to give it back until they get this mess straightened out, but that doesn’t mean you broke the law by stopping it.
Chang, my wife works for Bb&T as a branch manager. I know you may have read that in that Dispatch article in the statement by David White regarding the UCC code. However, I am aware of several situations where an official check was stopped before 90 days.
K.Chang..I don’t know all the deets on how he got his money back cuz I’m goin by what I was told…You are correct that after 90 days can consider “lost” then stop payment. The issueing bank may have made the exception if he proved Rex Venture Group was shut down by the SEC.
I did some searching online and found bank may stop payment on cashiers check if payee is being investigated by law enforcement. It’s at their discretion but this seems like a good case for them to stop payment.
Also one needs to sign affadavit and notarized. I will ask friend how he did it and post if/when I get answers.
I’ve personally had a certified check stop hold before that had nothing to do with fraud.
Maybe the policy is official, I’m just saying exceptions have been made. I’m sure banking policies are changing continuing and increasingly more stringent .
From my perspective, it’s not a matter of who is or isn’t breaking the law, it’s all about harm minimization and educating people as to what CAN happen.
Once they have the information people can make their own choices, just as they can choose whether or not to believe posters warning them about the realities of playing HYIPs.
Reversal of the cancellation of cheques carried out after a court ordered asset freeze is a reality and the people concerned probably won’t even be notified it’s happened.
It will be done by a simple computerized ledger reversal.
I believe creating the escrow is the proper way for a bank to handle the situation and good business
Reversal of the cancellation of cheques carried out after a court ordered asset freeze is definitely a possibility with our government because it would cause further delay and expense, and not be in the best welfare of the citizen.
Our government does not have a sound track record for financial effectiveness or common sense.
@ Chang
It appears this is not an opinion but fact. However, IMHO, you might feel differently if you personally had $10k or $20k sitting in a box uncashed.
I know people who already have had big sums back in their hand. I would rather be in that position realizing the possibility of the receiver reversing it again, which would be absolutely absurd but typical government at work.
Oz,
thanks for the kind words in response to the invitaiton to speak. I understand that you wish to remain a mere “reporter” with a keyboard.
I did note some comments on your blogs questioning the source of the post from me. Our website, mlmlegal.com, is a hosting an posting website…we don’t use it for communication. so I can assure you that you are hearing from me. And I can assure you that the invitaiton was sincere.
We have represented leading global companies in the direct selling arena for more than 25 years. we don’t represent any of the “so called” mlm penny auctions and we don’t represent pyramids, ponzis or securities schemes. All of my writing is intended to be educational and we are routinely cited as a proper source in this field.
so that you may verify the source of my email, you are welcome to visit our websites blog post on mlm penny auctions that was posted yesterday.
regards,
jeff babener
(Ozedit: removed spam)
As to the reversal of checks, thankfully my friend got his $10,000 check reversed on Monday, and another friend is going to his bank today. I told him on Monday when all this was unfolding….before all the discussions on how it could be reclaimed by the receiver.
We’ll see what happens. I’ll be sure to tell them that the possibility exists for the reversal. Still, a bird in the hand is worth ten in the bush. Since we seem to be in unchartered waters at the moment, who the heck knows?
MB – totally agree with you on our government screwing things up. So, if it makes logical sense to do it one way, if it’s something that’s going to create yet another bureaucratic agency, well, then we taxpayers have another one to support financially.
I’m wondering… what’s up with all of the uncashed checks, anyway? I mean, if they were pushing the extra “compliance” courses, etc., for a quick cash injection to keep the Ponzi afloat for a little while longer, wouldn’t they actually WANT the money that people were apparently sending in hand over fist?
Some people’s accounts were apparently credited with the points that the checks conferred, so it wasn’t just an administrative backlog with tons of unopened envelopes.
Had they actually deposited the checks into one of their 15 foreign bank accounts, but the SEC had insiders keeping those from being credited to Zeek?
Was the person who was supposed to deposit the checks instead delivering them to investigators?
Plus, it’s not like you can go to your local Wells Fargo or whatever and deposit into a Seychelles account. How were the cashiers checks being liquidated into the foreign accounts? FedEx? Scanning & sending electronically? Wire transfers?
LOL, I guess that’s why I’m not a money launderer. This all kind of befuddles me.
As to many friendships and relationships being destroyed…and at the end of WatchOutbyPete’s remarks “This will get ugly real quick”…sadly, that’s true.
Just found out last night that the person who is several levels up from me, just the nicest guy, the one who has done the most to help people in a ministry he founded (don’t want to give too many details because I want to protect his identity)…so far he has received three death threats.
Unfortunately, people like him are going to receive the wrath of others simply because he is the closest to lash out at. Which is why I hope sooner rather than later somehow or other those at the top could be exposed so that the wrath of others (I don’t mean to imply death threats are okay, obviously) can be directed at them.
Perhaps use petitions like the AdSurfDaily folks are doing for Andy, but in a reverse manner. Sign petitions so that the Judge at sentencing will give the Founders Club guys/gals the maximum mandatories…and then some.
It’s so heartbreaking….
Well, I’ve been wondering the same thing. Of course, Troy implies that it was Zeek doing the right thing. (Yeah, right!!!!) Greg Caldwell was probably setting them aside just in case.
Like you, I have no idea how money laundering works…but the most believeable scenario is yes, they got posted to the accounts by the administrative folks because these were the secretaries, data entry level folks who had to do their jobs. The appearance had to be given that things were proceeding as planned.
Probably the folks processing that money on an admin level then turned the checks to whoever was responsible for that. Who knows what the chain was….but ultimately, Paul, Dawn, et al could have been saving up to put in some account somewhere for themselves.
I think it all “went down” faster than they anticipated so they never got to deposit them into whatever account was going to fund their getaways. Just a theory…
What are the tax ramifications? Will these people recieve 1099’s based on their point totals?
If so, will the IRS allow them to claim an investment into an illegal ponzi scheme as a loss?
I’ve no idea why this scrupulous confession doesn’t make you all stir in pc chairs because I am getting shivers all over !!!
A lot of floating pieces of this mysterious puzzle look all the more logical to me all of a sudden, and being first generation of a mega affiliate myself many patterns, claims and cult like answers which we all just drank up as long as the money kept coming on time, makes me believe that this apostles story, unsettling as it is, may have a core of truth.
Showing checks and RPPs to lure us and then stopping on grounds of compliance. Having direct communication with Corp then “losing” it because they became “unavailable” as affiliates questions and issues grew at a scary pace.
The same alluding and evasive answers over and over again and the all knowing attitude that everything will fit into place very soon, the prepaid card, the new direct sales site… All the things that were made to give the impression that everything is going according to plan.
I am awe stricken with this and don’t exactly know if I should make my suspicions known to my downline.
My above remark is not related to the top quote but to this reddit article :
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/yhagt/iama_dishonest_person_part_of_a_600_million/c5vtiuw
Most leaders are really nice people! however greed drove them to this scam.
If this nice person would it taken the time to study zeek business model, maybe it would got a hint that this was a scam. But most of the leaders all they did was talk about all the big numbers and how much you were going to make and they didn’t pay attention to all the red warning signs, like fake customers, a bad penny auction and all the problems with zeek mismanagement.
Same here. I spent 3 days glue to my laptop, studying everything. I spent a lot of time on the penny auction, I took notes and made my research. Thats when I realized that it was a ponzi.
I told my friend, who is a leader in the industry, that it was not good. She put a lot of money and a lot of people, however not even once she took the time to study the company. So thats to show that a lot of the leaders in the industry don’t take the time to study the company.
Absolutely you should tell your downline…not only is it right but you will be able to live with yourself later.
In fact, if you know who the key players are in this and you have names, specifics, you ought to consider contacting authorities and don’t do it publicly obvously on any blog site.
The ball is now in your court to come clean and help any in your downline through this awful mess. They need people with integrity to help them along the way here.
The vultures are circling – lawyers, Koolaid messages from uplines (yeah, I’m still getting some even though I told them where to put their stupid emails.)
Confession is good for the soul. Obviously the FC group have none.
It’s not a situation where any sort of “normal” logic applies.
For example, when AdSurf Daily was busted, the task force found boxes and boxes stuffed full of cash and uncashed cheques in the ASD office.
One of the main problems facing US based fraudsters is the fact US banks are required by law to file “Suspicious Activity Report” (SAR)for a variety of reasons one of which is transactions over $10,000.
Shifting amounts over that size offshore is both difficult to do and to hide, leaving the fraudsters in a bind.
Personally, I am in no doubt the compulsory filing of SARs by Zeeks’ US based banks to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network contributed hugely to Zeeks’ eventual demise.
For whatever reason-Troy did wrong advise here. He look bad and he needs to stay away for a while and probably give an apology to the industry. However that people join zeek because of him, I dont bite that. It is every person responsibility to do their due diligence.
A leader can be earning 100k a day, and to me it doesn’t matter, because only I make my own decision. So everyone needs to own their part.
The warnings were here and Troy is not responsible for people joining zeek. He is responsible for bad advice because he “represents the industry”, no more.
This is going to be a big issue with the IRS, which is one of the reasons why I didn’t join zeek. Even Sandy Botkin didn’t give a clear answer on how to handle this. He knew better.
When you listen to that training call, Dawn interrupted him with her injection of koo-laid blah blah. And he kept quiet. Its simple logic. The company recieves cash from you, and then they give you monopoly money-aka points, where the big motivation was for you not to take the cash out and a big 1099.
You are responsible to the reporting to the IRS. So Zeek don’t worry about taxes. That looks like money laundering. Thats an issue of the “PATRIOT ACT”. People here in the US have no idea how strict this is.
The guy that tried to recruit me is a “Serial Network Marketer” and always chases get-rich-quick schemes so it was no surprise he got in. If anyone is going to put their money into an investment, you don’t do it if you see obvious things that trouble you.
That feeling in your gut is real and usually based on something that smells like fish and makes you queezy. After he told me about it it took me about 10 minutes to decide not to do it. How?
I punched in “Zeek Scam” on Google and found this site. I read about 5 comments. Done.
Decision made because the people on here are sharp know their stuff and really investigate (thank you is way too small a comment).
In addition:
-Bids on the site way over retail.
-The insistance that the “investment” is really not an investment. Hmmm, does that not make you wonder before you get in?
-Never answering basic questions such as, “What percentage of revenues come from actual retail bidders?”
Easy money is a drug especially when others around you are making it already.
Last comment. I just saw a news report and they mentioned possibly over a million victims. Victims???????
Thank you zeeknomore for your remark and insights. However if I act upon hunches with no substantial proof… I mean, that super affiliate who admitted to being this con artist he is on reddit.com hasn’t identified himself so it could still just be someone wanting to add some oil to the flame.
I could be slandering an innocent person.
Don’t forget the “no criminal charges have been filed” red herring. Of course not, it’s not quite been a week yet since Zeek was shut down.
When Zeek was running strong, affiliates were using the “if it were illegal, the feds would have shut it down.” Now that they can’t use that argument any more, they fell back on “no criminal charges have been filed.”
When criminal charges are eventually filed, they’ll have to revert to, “Well, Paul, Dawn, and Darrel are innocent until proven guilty.” When they’re eventually found guilty, I guess they’ll have to rely on “Well, that jury was just wrong. Paul is such a nice guy.”
I think you’re onto the truth. I think he really knew what was going on, mainly due to shutting down the question as to affiliate money vs. retail profit as posed to Dawn.
He knew that kind of question pointed to the ponzi nature of Zeek, and Dawn was likely to say something stupid like her later “you have to fund NXPay with purchases before we can pay you” comment. Now playing dumb is his only defense.
Like I said, the entire world except for Troy and a few Zeek diehards knows that Zeek was a ponzi.
I do agree with you that this blog is a fantastic resource and probably saved hundreds if not thousands of people the nightmare others are now going theough. Thanks to K.Chang, Oz and too many others to name who endured all the hate but persisted in calmly analyzing the facts of Zeek biz model.
However, IMHO nobody deserves to lose their money to the crooks who ran Zeek and the affiliates who knew what was going on but recruited people just to line their own pockets.
There are lots of people who just are not equipped to evaluate this thing properly, who got in on the advice of a good friend or relative. There are others who should have know better but were blinded by the money. Even this group doesn’t deserve to be ripped off by criminals.
Then there are folks who retired early or quit their job because they thought zeek was the answer to their prayers. Many of these folks made money and may face clawbacks, and their only option will be to sell their homes or declare bankruptcy.
We can call these folks idiots and say they should have know better, but personally I feel very sorry for them and get very angry thinking about the people who knew what they were doing all the time and couldn’t have cared less for the nightmare they were creating for so many people.
Maybe this is why Troy Dooly keeps saying he thinks the receiver is going to find a lot more money than what’s listed in the SEC complaint.
Perhaps, in regard to management/operational challenges caused by high volume (and possibly before the shutdown), someone has told him that there are boxes and boxes of unprocessed payments sitting in Zeek’s offices.
What made me instantly suspicious of Zeek was when I first heard about it, I googled “zeek rewards scam” and found dozens of websites which, when you read the titles or headers seem to be warning people of the possibility of a scam, but when you click on the link it was a glowing recommendation to join.
For example, you might see a title of “Zeek Rewards scam? Before you join, READ THIS” or “Zeek Rewards Exposed, the truth behind Zeek.” Of course when you click on the links they were nothing but sales pitches telling you how legitimate Zeek is and how much money you can make.
They obviously wanted to drown the internet with positive sales propaganda in case anyone searched for information about it being a scam.
The funniest was the Youtube video by the guy playing the harmonica telling people to just ignore all the negative stuff on the internet about Zeek. The video is of course now gone.
It takes a true skeptic to venture beyond page 1 of Google results!
Regarding Trudy Gilmond and even her partner Kayla…both were a couple zeekheads who never wanted to hear ANY concerns.
The funny part is, there were a group of us who DID ask questions frequently, got thrown off the “official” Zeek skype group and formed our own where we shared info on other businesses opps, concerns about Zeek with our downlines and such.
Heck, we stopped recruiting last winter and advised our downlines to do the same when it was apparent they had so many problems that weren’t being addressed. The Zeek people always amused us…because I can’t tell you how many times someone told me if only I was positive I would do so much better in this, etc.
Was even told my one upline that I could endanger the whole thing if I complained to the authorities. I replied that if they weren’t doing anything wrong, what was the problem? No reply to that one.
As for Troy D. Just add him to the list of scoundrels, fakers, and con artists because that’s very obviously what the guy is!
Anyone hear the rumor that the top 200 earners bank account have been frozen ?
I’m starting to think that the Reddit poster is messing with people… one of the subsequent posters on that thread pointed out some pretty obvious Photoshopping on the screenshot of the back office.
Yeah, it’s not looking good for Troy, IMO. The more that he obfuscates and deflects, the more deniability that he thinks that he can claim, perhaps.
The bitchy remarks about Laggos actually amuse me… he’s admitted to taking “consulting fees” *cough cough* to the tune of about $18K, but downplays that with the disingenuous “But… but… Laggos took MORE! HE’S the one you should be yelling at, not me!!”
He actually seems rather put out by the fact that Laggos raked in so much more than he did. Sour grapes much?
From what I have seen of theses delusional Zeekheads the last week, I am not surprised at all they were too stupid to see it was a ponzi. They can’t see it now even after everyone with a brain has told them and the SEC has laid it out for them.
For the most part they are delusional bible thumpers, they like to inject the bible and christianity into their posts, littering their post with bronze age superstitious nonsense. They are not clear thinkers and I for one AM GLAD THEY LOST THEIR MONEY AND DREAMS, THEY DESERVE DUE IT TO A LACK OF FUNCTIONING BRAIN CELLS!
They gave thanks to their magic man the whole time for Zeek, but magic man couldn’t see Zeek was a ponzi either. Wonder why???
Because magic man is fake also.
@Chris
Just for further clarification, not all “Public Companys” (sic) are required to disclose profits. Public companies trading on the over-the-counter exchange, specifically the “pink sheets”, have no obligation to file quarterly/annual reports with the SEC.
The pink sheets are notorious for penny stock scam artists who are trying to sell shares when there’s no revenues/profits, many will lie and tell you how great their doing via PR while giving no proof, just to get you to buy shares. Sound familiar?
There’s a reason most investors stay away from it, the majority of people trading on that exchange are get-rich-quick dreamers hoping their “investment” goes from $0.0001 to $1. At least they know they’re making an investment. LOL!
btw, many of these pink sheet companies, like Zeekler, are incorporated in Nevada. There’s a good reason for it, it’s like the “wild west” and they can get away with a lot more B.S. than the other states. So my argument is not “moot” when it comes to doing your DD on the profits.
Most companies that refuse to disclose this information are usually scams that are hiding something from you. “I’m a private company so I don’t have to tell you that, just trust me” doesn’t pass the smell test.
@Darrell, Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make them one.
Indeed, it wasn’t until I discovered behindmlm that I started learning the truth behind Zeek.
Something to ponder fellow zeek victims: If the receiver is going to do clawbacks (which I hope they go after all the top earners) shouldn’t the Treasury Dept. be included in they clawback of funds.
After all there probably was alot of money paid to the Treasury in the form of taxes from affiliates last year.
Also, I really don’t see how anyone who never took any money out of zeekrewards (like myself) should even have to file a business tax form for this year (which will cost hundreds of dollars) since the earnings we were being paid was actually just “virtual” money.
It was only real money if you took it out. Our point totals were nothing more than numbers on our computer screens giving us false hope that we were actually building an account.
I think a lot of it has to do with true believer syndrome. The thought patterns behind a religion or a get-rich-quick scheme are very similar. Surround yourself with like-minded believers, keep dreaming about the good things to come, and don’t listen to the negativity.
In fact, the “I’m going to be laughing all the way to the bank while you’re working in your low-paying job” statements sound very much like “I’m going to sitting in eternal paradise while you’re burning in hell” comments.
I also think a lot of MLM’s and pyramid/ponzi investment schemes also come off like personality cults. Look at how much support Andy Bowdoin has, and even now Zeekers are running around saying what a great guy Paul Burks is, even though most likely they’ve never met him.
That’s the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
That would be justice if true … I hope to hear that in the news from the SEC … until then it’s only rumour.
Im thinking bible thumpers who use religion to spread things like this and bible bashers who want to put down peoples religion are very simular. They like to play on peoples emotions.
If you enjoy using God to rip people off or you use Christian bashing to intimidate people you both are wrong.
One issue I haven’t seen touched on by anyone yet is the fact that Zeek — now charged as one of the largest fraudulent operations in American history (by number of victims, if not in dollars) — has collected the names, corresponding social security numbers, bank account numbers, credit card numbers, addresses and email addresses of hundreds of thousands of “affiliates” (a/k/a duped victims), not to mention the email addresses of all the people to whom the “affiliates” would send bids.
I understand this because a duped family member became an affiliate and wanted me to provide the same information (SS# and credit card #) to sign me up.
I also saw a post somewhere by a Canadian who lamented that she might not be able to sign up because Zeek wanted her SS# and Canadians don’t have social security numbers. Presumably Zeek accepted other forms of personal identification, banking and credit card information from victims outside the U.S.
As everyone knows, obtaining someone’s social security number is the holy grail to identity thieves, who not only can find out an incredible amount of information on the owner of that number, but can use it to establish all kinds of bogus credit and other accounts, which will ultimately be used to obtain money/services that will never be paid back, and ruin the credit of the person whose SS# was compromised.
Of course, similar stuff can be done with names, bank account and credit card information. Even just obtaining genuine email addresses is valuable to spammers, who pay to obtain such lists, then spam the hell out of the owners.
At post 575 above, littleroundman said that the people at the top of these operations, the ones who conceive of and operate frauds like Zeek, are highly sophisticated and organized international criminals.
Littleroundman posted a link to a letter allegedly written by one of them detailing their methods, which are all based on establishing false identities, international bank accounts, transient websites, etc. I suggest everyone read it.
I personally believe, without having direct proof, that littleroundman is absolutely right and that zeek was conceived of and run by such an organization. When my family member (from the US) set up the zeek account, the credit card was charged an extra fee for an “international transaction.”
Why did little ol’ Zeek Rewards, supposedly headquartered at that quaint storefront in small town, North Carolina, need to send her payment to some international bank?
The SEC has already said Zeeks funds were located in both US and overseas banks. Zeek has foreign versions in multiple other countries, as pointed out above by KChang, who provided a link to the Israeli version of Zeek (which is apparently still operating).
I suppose Burks set up all those international operations and banking accounts in his spare time after he finished calculating everyone’s net profit participation every afternoon, LOL.
Olivares, Dooly, and all the other public faces of Zeek are, in my opinion, total, obvious simpletons who never could have conceived of and executed the international operations, the massive public disinformation campaign that spewed out an excuse or counter-argument to every legitimate question or suspicion raised, and the computer programs, websites, bogus affiliate services, etc., that included the bogus back offices, the fake daily profit points calculations, the bogus webstores, the bogus ewallet accounts, bogus penny auction, etc., etc. — all of which ultimately netted Zeek $500 million or more.
(B/t/w, since the SEC reported Zeek brought in $162M in the most recent month alone, does anyone think the $500M figure might be low?)
I see it even reported above that Dooly, in an apparent effort to save his skin, is now saying he thinks Zeek was “infiltrated” by an international organization of criminals. That might just be the only partial truth that every came out of his mouth. How convenient.
Was it “infiltrated” after it was already established and running, or was it set up by them in the beginning, after which they found some local stooges willing to serve as front men and women for their operation, some local yokel, awe shucks types who were needed as a public face to suck in the unsophisticated in America and elsewhere?
Did they need some stooge who was running an unsuccessful business for 10 or 14 years to agree to let them use it, so they could then say how it was a “rock solid company that had been in business for 10 years,” thus sucking more people in?
A stooge who agreed to take the heat, the fines, the penalties, etc., provided he, his family and associates walked away with millions after the dust cleared?
Getting back to the social security numbers, bank account numbers, credit card numbers, corresponding names, addresses and emails: Just imagine how valuable all that information is to a sophisticated group of professional criminals operating internationally. They can use it for the fake identities they create themselves, and they can sell it to any number of others who need it for their own purposes.
The Zeek rewards scam may have been a money maker in many ways.
People may think the only thing they lost in this scam is the money they put in. They may find out they end up losing a lot more. How about the effort and expense of closing bank accounts and credit cards to prevent them from being misused?
How about paying for identity theft protection services designed to provide alerts if your SS#, banking info, name, etc. is being used for illicit purposes and wrecking your credit? I see Lifelock and other companies are charging about $200 a year for such services.
This is one reason I must politely disagree with a post by KChang (for whom I have only respect) in which he opined it really doesn’t matter who was behind the scam. I think it may matter.
Let’s hope it was just these dopes everyone is talking about: Burks, Olivares, the people everyone knows about. But I suspect it’s possible there may be bigger fish to fry — fish who are disappearing in the night as we speak, won’t ever be fried, and are probably laughing as they look at boards like this full of people talking about “Paul,” “Dawn” and “Troy.” Good luck, Zeeksters.
P.S., since my last post, I see that it is Oz who deserves credit for the public service of setting up this site and trying open people’s eyes to these scams.
This was a HUGE red flag for me too. I thought any company that worked so hard to block negative sites by flooding the internet with ones of their own was hiding something. And I mean flooding, it seamed like every site I found (with the exception of this one) started out with some sort of “Zeek is a Scam, but wait…”
I even got that vibe from mlmhelpdesk.com. Was this a strategy taught to new affiliates to advertise this way?
I never got involved in Zeek but several people close to me did. I remained the skeptic reading this blog and warning them right up to the end.
You mean if someone says they are a christian but doesn’t believe just like you do then they are not real christians, I know, I hear christians use that excuse all the time, so did I when I was a deluded person for over 35 years. I know all abouut it.
@Joe Mama, I agree 100% with your analysis, it is what I would have said if I could put my thoughts into words on a page. Thanks
@Choi – I really hope you can get this post to law enforcement, and that they read it. Thanks.
@Fullplate
About what you said “just because someone says they are a christian doesn’t make them one”
Do you know your bible and what it says regarding this exact issue? If you know your bible then you know that statement above is in direct violation of your new testament.
Before the Zeek Rewards investment ponzi collapsed, I saw no posts on here trying to inject religious beliefs into the analysis of Zeek, after the investment scheme collapsed and all the zeekheads came here, totally different with many posts containing bible verses and prayers for this and prayers for that.
I wish we could stick to discussing Zeek and leave out all the mythical superstitious bronze age magic man mumbo jumbo. Remember Zeekers, that is what got you in trouble in the first place, noncritical thinking.
Amen.
Look up through the posts over the last few days and tell me who ALWAYS starts injecting religion into Zeek posts. Not me ever! Bible thumpers did and do.
No thumpers=no bashing, once they open the door to talking about their nonsense, then I respond.
Well said Pat. People who are atheist, agnostic, or believers arrive at their conclusions/beliefs through many paths. There are unfortunately ignorant and offensive people in each of these categories.
Comments and debate about the existence of God and religion are better left to other blogs.
PPS to prior post:
Does anyone think Zeek had a legitimate reason for asking for SS#’s in the first place? They knew they were a scam so they didn’t need anyone’s SS#’s, so why were they asking for them?
Did anyone who was an “affiliate” in the year 2011 and took out money actually get a copy of a year-end statement issued by ZR to the IRS reporting profits received??? I’d like to hear.
The difference is atheists usually arrive at their conclusions through rational and critical thinking.
I agree, leave religion talk to the religious forums, as long as christians can leave out the bible verses and prayer talk here, great! I too would love to never see another thing about this, as we already have enough nonsense to talk about in Zeek Rewards.
A couple general comments:
The Israelis are apparently investigating as well. Local papers says there may be up to 20K Israelis with money in Zeek.
http://www.haaretz.com/business/purported-ponzi-scheme-said-to-have-signed-up-20-000-israelis-1.459131
As for the religious people… It seriously depends on what their message was.
If it’s to denounce “evil in the hearts of men”, no problem.
If it’s to denounce “lack of morality in the general public and thus everybody needs to be more religious”, problem.
The difference is subtle. The former is “defeat evil through religion”. The latter is “promote religion by trolling through victims for recruits.”
I think we are smart enough to tell who’s doing what. Being agnostic or atheist or skeptic or whatever had nothing to do with it.
In the US, if a company pays you, they need your social security number so they can report amount to IRS, and give you a W-2 or 1099 at end of the year. And yes, many did get a 1099 for 2011.
I was not an affiliate but I do believe people received 1099 forms for 2011.
@choi
They sent out 1099’s for 2011. Based on “points” you had at year end, not actual cash withdrawal. My husband had withdrawn no real money, but did receive 1099 with a pretty hefty sum on it.
Everyone who was an affiliate with zeekrewards did get or will get a 1099 earnings statement whether they took any money out or not.
That is also the reason peoples SS# was required.
The primary reason was to further the illusion that they (Zeek) were, in fact, undertaking the requisite legal requirements.
The logic being “if it were a scam, they wouldn’t need our SS number, would they”
A similar situation arises WRT IRS 1099 forms.
They’re all just part of the illusion Zeek was legit.
After all, “if it were a scam, they wouldn’t be sending out 1099s, would they”
That, BTW, is just ANOTHER problem yet to be faced by Zeeksters.
The 1099s aren’t worth the paper on which they’re printed.
I think the evil is using religion (any one) as a tool to gain people’s trust to do them harm. It’s gives people the false sense of thinking a religious person wouldn’t do them bad. Just another tool in the arsenal of scammers.
Wonder who’s in control of Zeek’s twitter account? That whitehouse.gov petition is on there.
twitter.com/zeekrewards
The 1099s are all B/S.
They’re not legit and are as made up as everything else.
They’re designed to reassure people Zeek was legit.
People MUST consult a tax professional.
I’m NOT saying all religious people that recruited are scammers!
I have never seen such a scam turn seemingly well adjusted, intelligent people into comeplete morons void of any critical thinking of how this business model worked.
The scam didn’t “turn them into” morons…it merely exposed them as the morons they already were!
It’s called “Affinity Fraud”
The SEC gives affinity fraud its’ own page: http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/affinity.htm
And that’s the problem, isn’t it? Didn’t that also give Zeek huge imaginary write offs?
Yes they did. Mine read on line 7 – 48 thousand some odd dollars, I made around 7k in commisions,and got a 76 page print out of every ad I posted, every bid I gave away with an e-mail address they went to, a break down of how many bids I gave away at 1.00 value.
I filed a Schedule C with my return, wrote off my initial ” investment “, membership fees, payed advertising and broke pretty much even. This year will be a whole new animal, my accountant said to claim any money I earned, write off membership fees and any other costs ( advertising and buying fake customers and leads )and pray.
Betty I hope by year end it will be clearer and how to handle the taxes. If there are clawbacks, then that’s a whole new game, tax wise.
Hopefully that is known by tax time, so there won’t have to be amended returns after that.
LRM The 1099’s with “point” balance written as real dollars didn’t do anything for me but solidify my thoughts at the time that this was totally bogus.
It might have reassured some, but I’m not sure how.
You may not intend this but your comments sometimes suggest that you think belief in God = non-critical thinking.
This sort of (over)reaction (or perhaps misinterpretation?) to Fullplate’s comment gets a little scary…
as for your claim “not me, ever!” with respect to injecting religion into the discussion, what about #856 and #857 above? Doesn’t seem to be a reaction to any specific comment, just you getting some anger off your chest about your past delusions for 35 years?
sorry meant #858 and #859
People who recieved 1099s in 2011 were also advised to offset that income by claiming the bids they gave away was marketing expenses.
It is very likely that the IRS will rule those bids were worthless, hence they have no value to offset the income and people will owe income taxes on the full amount shown on the 1099. I highly doubt the IRS will let the 2011 taxes returns that used that methodology stand.
At the very least, those filers will need to file amended returns complete with sworn affidavits and will probably face interest and penalties if they claimed those marketing deductions to offset actual cash recieved.
People who got involved in this scam are really going to get the experience of swimming in the deep end of the cesspool.
Update on the check issue:
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20120822/NEWS/120829914/1008/SPORTS?p=1&tc=pg
If everything was fake (vip points, points or bids repurchased ) that would be on zeek, how could you owe taxes on something that was not worth anything ?
Cash yes, worthless bids no. Am I missing something ?
Speaking of 1099s, did anybody notice that shortly before the zr site went offline, in the back office, there was a ‘2012 1099s Beta’ link?
I’m thinking how would they know our year end numbers in August? So I checked out my numbers and they were as if they applied an ( x / 7mo. * 12mo. ) formula to my points balance. Don’t know what that could mean, if anything… Or whether it could possibly mean to the receiver…
Remember all those tax experts on Zeek facebook who stated that bids are deductible expenses ? These are the same experts who thought getting 1.5 % was a sure investment.
The SS # issue is a great concern. I cancelled credit cards associated with Zeek, am going to change the checking account associated with all of the third party payers next week.
My husband have had Lifelock for years…I renew every year at the regular level. I’m going to upgrade to their highest level of protection where supposedly everything is covered, checking accounts, etc.
Still, we all better be looking over our shoulders for quite sometime.
Huh? I wasn’t replying to Full Plate with the “not me ever” comment. I was replying to Bouncin betty and Pat. It was in regards to who starts the talk about religion, and is “Not me ever” Get it?
Look who always injects religion into these discussions FIRST, it is the christians and not I .
global one is even better than zeek you don’t have to place a bogus add to earn your money. as a matter of fact you dont have to do anything accept try and rope other people in who will pay their monthly fee isnt that A-mazing. you earn big money every 6 days for doing nothing!!!!!!!
Ask any people who have had the privilege of paying global to be a founding member what you need to do to make money and they cant even tell you.
All we no about global one is the very impresive bio that scotty evans wrote about himself ( i dont know if i should laugh or cry) not saying its true or not only time will tell. But lest see some info about the many businesses and partnerships he has done and is doing?
Check out scottys career A Definitive Entrepreneur:
It gets better look at all his accomplishments..
it gets better.
What has he actually done with walmart and cotsco?
LETS NOT FORGET
Business Innovations & Patents
-Submitted and awarded multiple patents
-Several products and inventions in development stages which qualify for patents
it gets better. Scotty evans is actualy a multi billionaire
so the first thing he should be doing is suing forbes for keeping him off their 2012 global list of billionaires. What an over-site by forbes…..
So for whats its worth and im a knobody, my analysis is these zeek copycats have taken $23 from probably thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people before they have launched and will ask for monthly payment once they launch.
so they have plenty of money to do a zeek and start paying people according to their 6 day bogus matrix that i dont even think they understand so these people can show other people how the system works and they are making money to lure more people into this pay per month business. beautiful all in the name of humanitarianism.
did u know that scotty started skype according to one global pushers blog? yet Wikipedia makes no mention of him. cud somebody produce a tax receipt of this billionairs many charitable contributions?
CAN ANYBODY TELL ME A PATENT NUMBER FROM US PATENT AGENCY INFO ON ONE OF THESE PATENTS. PLEASE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS AND GET INVOLVED WITH GLOBAL ONE
Has anybody ever heard the phrase from the bible By the sweat of your brow will you have food to eat
unless behind mlm endorses a company stay FAR AWAY
(Ozedit: BehindMLM doesn’t endorse any company)
People at behindmlm did a fantastic job to expose zeek . Kudos to them. Otherwise that $230 M that got saved would have been wiped out in another 60 days.
The question is to see that all these scum eaters at the top of zeek chain don’t try to cash out more from the $230 million assets that SEC sized. They may try to do so by hiring big gun attorneys.
As zeek affiliate it is our responsibility to see that zeek’s management Darryl Douglas , Dawn Olivares, Paul Bruks, Alex de Brantes and others top zeek affiliates associated with this should face criminal investigation and punished if found guilty for duping over 1.2 million affiliates.
Lot of affiliates called the banks to inquire when those cashiers check (which they sent at time of joining) had been cashed. We saw that in last 5 months as early as march that there was lag of anywhere between 2 weeks to 6 weeks form the time when the money was entered into our back office to the time it was cashed by zeek.
This is itself enough proof that this was a scam to begin with. Imagine a bank that starts giving you interest before it deposits your money into there account. It seems they were just putting the checks in the system in 3-10 days max from the time they received the checks.
This could have been done to create hype and secondly to avoid any red flags. So all those delusional fools who think that zeek was doing things right need to wake up and complain to AG office at ncdoj.gov to start a criminal investigation against the firm.
Otherwise million Paul Bruks will have incentive to keep on creating such schemes and duping people.
This crisis is a good check to see who actually cares about their down line. If you never heard back form your upline or they never called you for whatever reason , it shows that they were never there for you to begin with.
I will not join any of these suckers into another network marketing schemes, otherwise I am sending them a signal that they can get away with it every time. Be vocal about them and expose them so no one else gets hurt in another of such scheme.
It seems few people at the top new something was wrong 2-3 months before as they were cashing big checks and withdrawing more than 30% – 100% every week. I am sure when the receivership looks at the data they can figure out from the check cashed who had insider information and who was cashing out more than usual amount in last few months.
One can see the pattern of withdrawals and figure out who had insiders info . That will prove who was involved in this scheme to begin with.
I heard from inside sources that since SEC has got all social security or business tax ids of all affiliates, every affiliate who received money will be audited by IRS.
I would be very cautious to whatever Troy Dooly report as he seems to have an agenda for everything His son is in Vitel MLM and just the day Zeek crashed, Vitel was announcing that they will give all zeek people who join Vitel the same level they had in zeek.
These vultures have no shame. They want to make use of an opportunity to suck people into another one. It seems this is the work of crafty Troy Dooly. Trust no one. All people who lost money are very vulnerable and should just take time off and reflect on all this and learn from it.
Always trust your own intuition. It always tells you the truth. BidMaverick
My last word on religion on here: Earlier this year there was a Christian ponzi scheme that either was shut down or collapsed. This guy was targeting people in his church and Christians in general. The lesson being don’t just trust someone because they act like a nice, decent person and they’re in your own social group.
That’s why they’re called confidence games. They gain your confidence any way they can. Which is why I have to laugh at all the people who are still saying what a nice guy Paul Burks is, even though it’s quite apparent that he was just coming up with a daily percentage for the RPP out of thin air and lying to people by telling them it was all profits from the penny auctions.
@darrell
Yeah, I get it but you need to read my comment more carefully. I didn’t say you were replying to Full Plate with your “not me ever” comment. Full Plate’s comment and your response are in the green text box.
I know you were responding to Bouncin Betty and Pat with respect to the “not me ever” comment. What or who were you responding to whe you said:
Was this a reply to another specific comment or was this you injecting religion into the thread?
Yeah, I noticed that, too. I thought it was kind of weird and out of the blue.
@ Erin That was my point.
Follow up on my post #823. My friend tells me this man in his his downline positively got all his money back from stopping payment on cashiers check.
Also mentioned this guy was the only one whose check was outstanding and the rest of his downline that enroled since early July found their checks all cashed on the same date…..8/17!!
Don’t trust “words from friends”. Friends is what got you into this mess in the first place.
Remember Reagan’s words; “Trust, but verify.”
It’s obvious there’s a lot of raw emotion going on from lots of folks and understandably. While I never shy away from a fight if I think it’s an important one, I’ve learned to choose my battles which is why I’m staying away from some of these very mean-spirited comments as of late.
Until today I’ve found this site to be a great source of information and now it seems to be bogged down with childlike bickering about religion and who’s right. Please stop it already.
Of course, there are some people who just plain old get off on arguing, so I’m wasting my fingers on the keyboard and I’m not even talking to you, so just move on to the next message. If you want to respond with your cursing and insults, have at it. I really don’t care. Life’s too short for me to give a rip.
But for those of you who really care even an ounce about those of us who are ex-Zeek affiliates I’m going to offer perhaps a very simple explanation of why we “stupid morons” got involved in Zeek.
The general observation I’ve made over my six decades on this earth is that there are two types of people, with of course varying degrees of blurring due to various personality types.
There are left-brained folks and right-brained folks. Left-brained folks are adept at critical analysis, make sound business decisions, are quite proud of the fact that they do so. I admire them greatly.
They have an ability to understand things that I simply cannot comprehend nor usually want to bother figuring out. Downside – they tend do be a bit lacking in people skills….not always, of course. I’m just speaking from personal experience.
Then there are right-brained folks like myself who are not intellectually inferior…we are just wired differently. We tend to be creative in different ways and because we like people, tend to be more trusting.
When it comes to critical analysis, I only can spend so much time thinking and analyzing and more thinking and analyzing before I just say, “Go with my gut.” Which sometimes hurts because the gut can be wrong.
Still, it’s just the way I do things on a subconscious level. Can’t help it. Just is what it is.
Of course, personalities also come into play making some of us more susceptible to falling prey to things as well. I’m not trying to give any psychology lessons here, and I’m sure Chang is finding my comments elementary. I know he could analyze this so much better.
The fact of the matter is – left-brained folks are never going to get me, and visa versa. So rather than nit pik comments, it would be way more constructive and mature to stick to facts here. Because believe it or not, we all need each other as human beings..at one time or another.
I’ll close with an analogy, albeit a probably silly one – In November I’m going on a cruise for my 62nd birthday (I can say that because this is anonymous) with my very best girlfriend…we live to go on cruises. I thought this one was going to be funded by Zeek money but I guess I’m going to have to have a few garage sales between now and then…but I’m going.
We are both right-brained, outgoing and don’t know a stranger. Let’s say we are sitting poolside, listening to Reggae, sipping an adult beverage, having fun in the sun. We are sitting with our newly found girlfriends we made during the week.
Life’s good…until the ship lists suddenly (happened on my last one…it’s not funny).
The girlfriends we met at the disco the night before are totally useless because they are airheads who have freaked out. Thankfully we have a smidgeon of left-brained going ob, so we at least decide sort of what to do next.
No longer are we thinking about how much fun we are going to have dancing that night. Then it’s, “Find me a critical thinker! I need someone who can figure out where we go from here. What should I do?” Let’s say we find Mr. Critical Thinker who then figures out the best way off the ship.
“Thank you, Mr. Critical…you were there when I needed you, but I’m outta here.”
Now onto the lifeboat. Well, the lifeboat is full. So now, to heck with critical thinking, what I need right now is a strong swimming man that can help me swim to shore. To heck with left brain, right brain, critical thinking and having a good time…all I need right now is pure brawn.
Thankfully Mr. Brawn has gotten us all to shore…all have been rescued…I like happy endings. Well, now is when we right-brained gregarious grandmas come in handy, giving everyone big hugs and tending to very minor injuries.
I know this may sound stupid, and I’m not trying to make light of this desperate Zeek business, although I have found a sense of humor to probably be my best emotional tool in life. But it just shows that we are all in a world where we all need each other at times.
If you don’t think so, well, wait until your next time of tragedy, I mean real tragedy. Losing money is definitely not a tragedy. But when that time comes, I can only hope that you’ve been a person who respects each person for who they are and not make judgments because at the end of the day, you just may need that person who’s not like you to get you through.
Enough already! I promise mo more stupid analogies!
OMG, zeek vultures have my phone number now.
909-217-7417 just called to tell me “Hi, we heard you were with zeek rewards, if you were happy with them, great! If not, press 1 to find out how you can make $2k~$3k/week. Etc., etc.”
Here are a couple of interesting articles:
http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/08/21/article/zeek_rewards_scam_includes_local_victims
http://madisontaylor.freedomblogging.com/2012/08/22/zeeks-rewards-just-desserts-and-begging-for-information/20427/
Oh, just great…now add to my list of things to do this week – changing phone number in addition to already closing credit card accounts, bank accounts and signing up for Lifelock Deluxe.
These people are parasites. Thanks for the tip on the phone #…I’ll be sure not to answer.
Yes it was in response to reading one too many posts about believers and them praying for each other so this Zeek thing turns out ok.
I must have snapped for a second. I just get tired of people always having to inject bible baloney into every damn thing, especially when we are talking about business matters here on this forum and we are trying to deal in facts.
Now I won’t say anything else regarding religious matters until a bible thumper/zeekhead starts it.
@darrell
ok no worries. You can only help people to see things rationally if they are open to rational arguments and logic. If not its just not worth getting all worked up over.
I should have listened to my friends. They told me zeekler is a scam and I got mad at them for stopping me making good money.
The money I see in my account is only on paper, not cash value, I am too blind to keep reinvesting back with the hope to become a millionar one day. They took me to Vegas with red carpet treatment, the blow me up like I am already a millionar.
I though I am 1 step away from millional. It’s just bubble. It’s only money when you have it in your pocket. I should have listened to my friends……Stupid me!
To solve a problem, you’ll have to involve the opposite part of what you used when the problem was created. Normally, the best solutions can be found within those parts.
Here we will usually use the left side, the logical one. It’s needed to make something become understandable for most people, but it may also make it become more boring.
I used partly the right side when I pretended to be a recruiter from Zeek on Troy Dooly’s website, showing how the VIP balance would grow with 100% reinvestment for 1800 days.
“After 1500 days, your VIP balance will have grown to around 500 million VIP points, and you can withdraw $1.5 million per day with an 80/20 plan.”
“If you continue with 100% reinvestment for a few more 100 days, you will be able to buy all the farmland in the U.S., ExxonMobile, Apple and all the other stuff you always have dreamed about but never could afford.”
So I am able to use both parts, but it’s usually difficult to be on the same wavelength as other people if I use other parts than they do.
I used the visual parts to “see” how parts of Zeek worked, rather than using logical thinking, e.g. to identify the “Cash available” as worthless points, and to “see” where the different streams of money came in there.
I see…I think. Thanks. All I know is any type of “opportunity” that comes along, I’m running for the hills.
As far as the 1099 issue for 2012, it will be questionable if we will receive them. Typically the totals would not be computed till year end, unless Paul or Dawn sneaks into the computer files and complete the process, or maybe they had them in envelopes ready to mail, and that was the boxes Troy seen them carry out the back.
Get real folks, if any 1099’s were going to be issued at this point, they would have to come from one of the investigating offices.
The investigation will be looking for the payments in and the “money out”, which is the biggest concern at this point, I can’t imagine the government agencies sending a 1099 for the bogus points earned.
It would be a useless process to go beyond seeking the “real” cash movement, and the ones doing the moving.
I really don’t think the government is going to send out 1099s for an illegal ponzi scheme.
I don’t know if anybody expected to receive one for 2012 or not. But remember they know how much money you have received, if you are someone that did.
We will also have to wait and see what/if gets clawed back in order to determine tax liability. Remember people, keep your paperwork in order! Whether you got money or not.
It does look as though Troy has lost his crowd to a large degree. His blog is near dead if you’re counting the last several days comment post tallies on his last several entries. As posted here by many and said many different ways, he’s lost all credibility.
Troy’s attempt to defend the indefensible regarding Paul Burks, the voluntary shutdown and not understanding the SEC evidence of Zeek being a ponzi has been even more torturous than Dawn’s burger ridden eWallet analogy.
Not to mention dismissing the overwhelming evidence that has been presented on this site (and others) for months now.
It does seem for now as though the dreaded tee shirt clad MLM advocate has had his 15 minutes of fame. Maybe? We have yet to witness the roundup of criminals & accomplices or seen what charges will be pending nor exactly who will find themselves in the drag net.
Troy may just find himself thrust back into the spotlight.
You can solve it partly if you’re able to identify which part the salesman / politician or whatever tries to communicate to.
Showing screenshots or checks clearly is directed towards the right side, the emotional and visual one. And that’s a red flag when you’re about to make an investment.
We can’t run for the hills all the time, either. See it for your inner eye, at the age of 70 you have probably spent 10 years of running, and has got “running” as a part of your nickname. 🙂
The tax issue:
I “saw” the tax issue rather than analysing it, so I organised the discussion to one specific thread and kept it alive there from time to time.
But that discussion had some missing points. The facts about “Cash available” and similar stuff will require some actions from the IRS rather than the taxpayers.
I tried to direct a few people towards Howard Kaplan’s general advise “Keep your own track here”.
1099 for 2012 can become a problem for some people. The amount received is taxable even if you don’t receive any 1099, AFAIK.
When it comes to solving tax issues for 2011 or 2012, I can clearly imagine the chaos when all affiliates tries to send in sworn affidavits, each of them using their own individual methods and logics. It’s probably easier if the IRS can find a better solution, e.g. publish some info on their website.
The receiver should normally take care of that part. RVG is “under administration”, just like they do when a company is bankrupt and can’t handle its own problems.
It isn’t owned by Paul Burks anymore, all its assets is owned by the receiver, on behalf of the creditors.
@ rdb
I think Troy’s blog has slowed mostly due to issues with his comment system and the fact that it’s not exactly user friendly for any posts that aren’t on the front page.
And the fact that Zeek is dead, so you won’t have the regular defenders posting anymore.
I will be discussing with my CPA about the required filing, I put money into into Zeek, but received no monies back.
I believe the points I earned would be considered a “phantom” income in which I would claim the total as income, then subtract it in the next line as a “Fraudulent 1099 in connection with Scam.”
I will also wait to see if there is special wording that can be used for the IRS considering the ZEEK Ponzi. I will continue to post my findings this year.
Yes, you are missing something. The IRS is a tough cookie. They will very likely just disallow any deductions for points and then assess taxes on the entire amount shown on the 1099.
It will then be your responsibility to prove the 1099 was in error. The IRS moves quickly on anything that is in their favor, such as disallowing deductions and moves at a snail’s pace when making rulings that cut their revenue, like adjusting a 1099 amount downward.
And what is 100% sure is those 1099s just won’t vanish like a thief in the night. People will have to deal with them.
Taxes will surely be owed on any cash you received over and above your initial investment. You will need to prove your initial investment and provide proof of your cash withdrawals.
The whole process will be complicated by the fact that many people used cashier’s checks and money orders to buy in. Many of those people will have lost their receipts, and consequently, their necessary documentation of their original investment.
Add to that the number of people who opened accounts in other people’s names such as their children or friends. When the IRS comes for the taxes due from little Johnnie, how are the parents who set up that account going to react?
It won’t be bad for everyone, but there will be people who will get caught up in an IRS nightmare.
Agreed on both points Chris. Many defenders now have their eyes wide open.
If you estimate that for every poster here, there may be 20 lurkers only reading here, then we might could guess everyone is here now.
And yes, his site is really messed up now.
“After 1500 days, your VIP balance will have grown to around 500 million VIP points, and you can withdraw $1.5 million per day with an 80/20 plan.”
“If you continue with 100% reinvestment for a few more 100 days, you will be able to buy all the farmland in the U.S., ExxonMobile, Apple and all the other stuff you always have dreamed about but never could afford.”
YaY!!!!!! /
wait a minute..is there even , like, that much money in the whole wide world??? 🙂
@Chris Bailey
Troy does an OK job in some areas, e.g. when he acted as a middleman between affiliates and Zeek to solve some problems. He’s clearly functional in roles like that one.
But he also has serious flaws in his “belief set” (or whatever), something that clearly makes him dysfunctional in some areas.
I don’t believe HE will be able to solve it, but WE can (solve our own part of it). One method is to identify clearly and in few words the areas where he is functional, and do something similar for the other areas — without spending too much time or being too detailed.
And since I already have described where he was functional, I’ll guess someone else can fill out the other list (max 500 lines about where he is dysfunctional). 🙂
Just remember your CPA is very experienced in dealing with real income and real expenses and probably has no experience dealing with fraudulent enterprises. They will probably be as befuddled as you are.
You are going to be paying a hefty fee for them to research all the ins and outs of this mess. It may be more cost effective to just put them on notice this mess is occuring and postpone any filings until the SEC receiver and the IRS start making their positions known.
It also wouldn’t hurt to be sure you have some liquid cash available to feed the wolves if the IRS and Clawbacks come after you.
Actually, Mr. Clements biggest failure in the “I think Zeek’s not a Ponzi” analysis is that he played a strawman.
His reasoning was that if they lowered the RPP it’s not a Ponzi.
Well, they didn’t, so he’s discussing a completely theoretical scenario!
That’s about as relevant as a defense attorney for a murder said “if my client didn’t pull the trigger…” when all evidence says they did!
Here is a link (IRS) to read concerning Ponzi Schemes and offshore tax evasion legislation.
I will be discussing this with my CPA for 2012. Hope this helps those who have lost money.
No doubt about that, my CPA needs a heads up.
There will be no clawbacks coming for me, if I have to pay taxes on the 28,000 points, so be it.
I will be sure to add the expenses I put into Zeek, ending up with about 22,000 (bogus points income).
Now my up-line will have to show the 500K along with his wife’s amount, bummer for him…… but he made money…..
Zeek is dead. RIP
Anticipating the criminal roundup and the fun that will be coming in print has me percolating.
Okay, I’m sadistic. Fun won’t be had for all involved. Oh harsh me. Those ensnared will not be having any fun.
Hard to believe Zeek would allow personal information like tel #s of affiliates to be disclosed outside the organization. Surely they’ll be more careful with SS, credit card and bank account #’s….
The article states nearly 3 billion in profit points. If 1 point = 1 dollar, that’s 3 billion dollars. At an avg. tax rate of 20%, that’s $600 million in taxes. The IRS is getting involved.
If an affiliate chose to purchase additional bid, points, whatever instead of taking the cash, doesn’t matter it’s still taxable income. No different then if you would have recieved a check, cashed it and then bought the bids, points, whatever.
IRS doesn’t care if you chose to buy something worthless.
That isn’t any problem. I guessed the IRS would be included automatically in the investigation when Zeek was shut down.
In case they haven’t been included automatically, ONE person can send them a message about the problem — a short description — and tell them that the problem affects ALL the 1099’s from Rex Venture Group for 2011.
So if they feel for correcting something, they will probably have to correct the income too. They SHOULD correct all those tax returns.
IRS does give a break if you are a victim of fraud.
What Zeek did is pumped up their figures, by generating fake transactions, but in reality no money ever left the system. Zeek’s on the hook, not the individual members.
It’s those who actually got a real PROFIT from Zeek that has to worry, both about clawbacks… AND IRS audit.
Any one who tried to deduct “expired points” is gonna be for a severe shock: Kaplan was WRONG in stating that it’s deductible. He cited a line that’s NOT USED in the current tax year.
Been thinking about this call you got. Unless you subscribed to an MLM opp online or have a history of being associated with one, then it would seem to me that whoever called you should not have had that number….unless it originated by someone in Zeek who has given, possibly sold our info to some in the Founders Club or whoever.
If that is true, would this happening be something investigators ought to know? I mean, maybe in some way it will lead to someone ratting on someone else.
Luckily for me I did- just in time too. It saved me my dough and my reputation.
Once again, I want to say great job to Oz and everyone here for your work on covering this and being so accurate from the start. It is really greatly appreciated!
And I second that!!! Thanks for all the great info – has been helping tremendously!
I wonder if they will find the Blanket Cape & ole DD hiding under the same rock, or two different rocks?
BehindMLM used to rank on page 1. It also has some links from a YouTube video.
All the recent news stories have pushed to the top of Google, pushing down the skeptic sites in search rankings, but when they fade, BehindMLM will climb back up.
Now that is a great idea. I sure hope what I read from one very informative post comes to fruition- that anyone who signs the petition to keep Zeek alive shall not get one “penny” of their “investment” back.
At this point, they are the ones who truly deserve to lose their investment.
Kudos to this site and the very informative info. Keep up the good work.
Just for a laugh, I watched one of Troy Dooly’s videos yesterday, where he was finally acknowledging some of the SEC’s facts and had mentioned Oz or behindMLM and said “Uh, it sure would have been nice to read this stuff months ago”. HA!
No wonder he shut down his comments or made them difficult to find or access.
Troy Dooly is DONE… prison or not.
I can say without a doubt that it was somebody from ‘212team’. Fwiw, it’s a skype number…
What is “212 team”?
It was a large group of affiliates of which I was once a member…
@k. Chang
I seen your great comment on the recent Forbes post. “People trolling victims for MORE OF THE SAME ought to be prosecuted.”
What is this other website (zeebates/zeekbates) all about, can’t they just quit by now??? Thanks.
Most people are going to be truly shocked if and when they find out the extent of the frauds within frauds within frauds which made up the Zeek saga.
In among the reported “million” members there are who knows how many people who inadvertently revealed phone numbers, addresses, bank account details, credit card numbers and all sorts of personal details to who knows how many criminals posing as fellow Zeek members.
For example, contemplate the reality of what can happen to the thousands of people whose credit card and/or bank details ended up in Cyprus at Zeeks’ recommendation.
Having phone numbers revealed is going to be the least of their problems.
At the risk of repeating myself, people have no idea what they have got themselves into.
These people are professional criminals.
NOTHING is sacred.
Any and all affiliate or network marketing programs REQUIRE a SS# or EIN# before they ever send you a check. So it is usually requested upon sign up.
No red flag there, but I wouldn’t trus the people in THIS company …
That’s my whole point.
The question to which I was responding was: “what is the logic in Zeek asking for SS numbers, if it was a fraud and didn’t need them”
Legit affiliate or network marketing programs require SS# or EIN# and Zeek was pretending to be a legit MLM company, to fend off any queries regarding its’ legitimacy.
That would have been relatively harmless in itself, HOWEVER, in the world of fraud and fraudsters such details are like gold, as are membership lists, CC numbers etc.
It has now been proven the whole Zeek experience was one big criminal conspiracy and it would only be a supreme optimist with absolutely no experience of the fraud “industry” who’d ignore the dangers to which members have been exposed.
Some of the income on those 1099s was correct. People did take money out of the scam, and that will be taxable at the very least and subject to clawback at the worst. The rest of it, value of points purchased etc. will be determined only after a lengthy review by the authorities.
The IRS will not be issuing a blanket cancellation of all of those 1099s. There is going to be a lot of hurry up and wait.
Wow. Actions have consequences…lessons I have always preached to my kids…shame on me!
The problems with the IRS will not be confined to this years’ returns for some people.
People who, for example, believed and acted according to what they were told WRT expenses, point, claims and 2011 issued 1099s when they submitted last years returns are now involved as well.
We now know NOTHING about Zeek was what it seemed.
Strictly speaking, much/most of the information Zeek supplied information members included on their 2011 returns is simply not true, regardless of what they may have believed at the time.
Just another potential mess in which Burks and Co have left their victims.
Here’s a problem, the 2011 breakdown of activity for the 1099 had listed the bids we bought for a 1.00 each, then we gave them away to earn them back as VIP points.
It listed who we gave them to and a dollar value, like buying product and giving samples away, it’s a right off, that’s how it was explained. I know it will be difficult to explain to the IRS, hopefully when Burkes spills his guts it will make sense to them ?? Zeek was righting them off ? a so where we ?
This is making me sick.
Not to sound harsh, but people who fall for this same scam over and over again deserve to be left broke and penniless
Are you *sure* you didn’t make your Zeek membership public, via websites, Twitter, Facebook, and so on and so forth, and one of those have your phone number?
Scrapers nowadays are pretty powerful and merge info from multiple sources. If you EVER solicited info from any of those get-rich-quick schemes (capture pages) you’ll get merged too.
There was a very good article on VERGE about how Internet Scammers use high pressure tactics to scam lots of people, and there’s conventions for them too. I can’t find the URL right now, but you should have no problem finding it.
Anyone have information or care to speculate on where Dawn, her inept minion tool relatives, and Daryl Douglas are crouching, and how long will pass before we see criminal charges pressed against them.
Dooly interestingly mentioned there was bad blood thought to be between the Burger Queen and the Mrs. Fields Cookies salesman. One rumor was she is in Nepal, although I do not know where this information was sourced.
That may have been a fabricated guess based on the fact she mentioned her travels to Asia and specifically Nepal in past blogs. As far as Daryl he disappeared in late July.
I want to see their cash out figures, particularly after the CID was issued on July 6. The same for each of the Founders Club members. I’m also hope we soon find out more about the relationship between Gary Bessoni and Paul Burks and the fake leads from Z-Customers.
I suppose it’s possible, but I really don’t see how, as I never left my phone number… I’ve filled out a few capture pages but sure don’t recall any of them remotely related to any kind of get-rich-in-quicksand schemes…
What I really think is that it’s a veiled warning from 212team not to turn over information to the authorities, as if I already haven’t, and 5-10 other people also already haven’t.
Anyway, not worried about it, more so about the SS and CC numbers..
Let’s play “let’s pretend” for a moment.
Pretend this whole mess was a conspiracy as many have proposed.
Let’s pretend everyone, or nearly everyone “at the top” involved was part of the conspiracy and shared information.
Over the 2 years Zeek was active, how many members could have given “someone” involved with Zeek a phone number, bank account details, credit card number, street address, real name, location, place of employment, drivers’ license details, email address or any other means by which someone criminally inclined might benefit.
Now imagine technology advanced sufficiently to allow 10, 20 or 30 or 3000 so inclined people to collate and share such details and what the ramification could possibly be if such a thing occurred.
OOPS
And so it begins…
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20120822/WIRE/120829854/1083/ARTICLES?Title=Zeek-affiliates-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-company-CEO
THis a good interview Fox did on the class action lawsuit and a family that invested 7K for their daughter
As explained before, talk to a CPA.
You’ll need to get the checks or eWallet transfers and whatnot proof as how much you sent to Zeek, and how much you got back as proof that the 1099 you got was bogus.
Talk to a real CPA who knows how to report “losses due to fraud” as write-off. Just beware that if you wrote it off, then any disbursement you get 2-3 years from now counts as income. 🙂
When discussing this topic, my friend said he would be getting an email from the government to deal with getting his money back.
This sounds as crazy as everything else. What do you guys think?
It is not logical that Burks would just make up a number each day all the eay to the brink without some kind of extremely pressing, maybe sinister influence.
Look at his lifestyle, clothes, house, origins, and current health situation with his wife. I’m predicting that because he threw in the towel so easy with the Sec, he will throw other company people under the bus.
Email and/or a letter. But the big question is how much you will get back. 75% of investment? 50%? Less?
Lots of variables, including how much they can clawback from the top affiliates, how many people make claims, whether they will refund just VIP bid purchase from the back office or also customers who bought retail bids for the matching VIP points.
Imagine if you invested $1000 initially, then purchased another $4000 on credit cards buying retail bids to get the 20% commission + matching VIP points + convenience of using a credit card. You have “invested” $5000 but the Receiver may say you are only a victim of $1000, because the other $4000 was retail volume and under someone else’s name (whom you then reimbursed).
A lot of people may get screwed this way.
@ Jimmy
I read about the lawsuit on the Dispatch. What’s interesting is the number of $10k investors in the lot.
It’s hard to guess what any one’s motivations are. Perhaps Burks wanted to allow his family to keep whatever money he had distributed and that is his motivation, knowing that he and his wife are in their later years.
For example, look at Bernie Madoff. There are some that believe his children and wife knew more than they let on. Madoff’s cooperation may have been in part to guarantee that some finances from the family are not part of the criminal case. That doesn’t protect the family finances from civil lawsuits, of course.
One of the duties of the receiver (NOT the government) is to contact as many victims as possible to keep them appraised of the situation.
That will more than likely include contacting as many members for whom he can find legitimate email addresses.
He will also post updates on the website.
They (the members) will then be asked to provide proof of participation and verification of their transactions.
IM(very)HO, it is highly unlikely members will get ALL their money back, but, obviously no one can possibly know if, when and how much in these early stages.
If it were me, I most certainly wouldn’t be factoring ANYTHING into any future plans.
Most experienced observers in the AdSurf Daily ponzi case predicted a delay of around 2 years before refunds were issued and around 4 years before Paul Burks’ equivalent, Andy Bowdoin was jailed.
Predictions which, BTW, turned out to be largely accurate.
HOWEVER, the Zeek ponzi appears to be about 5 or 6 times larger, both in terms of amount involved and numbers of members, so, who knows ??
I guess we might want to apply for a new identity, does the U.S. allow that? LOL. I cannot imagine all the personal info I gave to them.
I stopped my bank card Monday, and now I am thinking I should change bank acc #. As far as SS and DL# I will just have to monitor that. Thanks zeek you just took a big s… On us all!
@ Jimmy
Would a person be asked for bank acct info for deposit of funds? Would this letter and/or email come in the next few weeks?
Just trying to help a friend see fact from fiction. Things seem very blurry for them.
How gracious of Fox8 to pinpoint Burks’ home to be at the corner of W. 2nd Ave. & Park Street.
@ Jimmy
They sure had a wide spread, from less than $200 to $10k. And a hundred lashings to the reporter for violating Zeek corporate compLIancE policy by using “invest” more than a hundred times. :\
Now that this story is out, I imagine that counsel’s law office is about to be inundated with calls.
If my credit card is stolen, I don’t panic because I am only liable up to $50. Any above is protected from the bank.
If I forget my drivers license and it takes 10 minutes to turn around to get it, I don’t because if I get a ticket my fine would be $25 more if the officer gave me the citation.
My bank accounts are protected by fraud. Why do people make such a big deal about personal information? Are there risks I am unaware or naive about?
You can imagine people gonna picket the place with signs “shame shame shame” and worse. 😉
Possibly. It varies from person to person, upline to upline and payment processor to payment processor.
The problem is, it is entirely possible for someone interested enough to collate information from 5 or 6 places onto one database.
Please believe I am NOT trying to be a scaremonger, but I HAVE seen it happen WRT similar scams and I have absolutely no reason to believe this one is going to pan out any differently.
In fact, if I had to guess, I’d say this one has all the signs of being worse than previous ponzi frauds
IM(very)HO, it is unlikely to be in the short term and, if it is, it is more likely to be by way of explanation and update, but DEFINITELY not refunds
Unfortunately, that’s exactly how it’s going to be for quite a while.
Try and imagine how much work and time it will take to make some sort of sense out of 2 years and at least $600million worth of transactions AND be as fair to everyone as is possible while coping with the fact a large percentage of victims want it done as cheap and fast as possible AND the receiver will have a whole heap of angry people and HYIPers out there watching his every move, many of them claiming he and the government are ripping them off.
No thnaks.
Abso-bloody-lutely.
FYI, it’s a multi billion dollar industry in the U.S.A. alone:
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/fraud/websites/idtheft.html
They can sign contracts in your name, making you liable.
Imagine this scenario: with all your info, they got enough info to buy a house, or a car, or even open a credit card… all in YOUR name.
Let’s pick a car. They bought a 50K MB. Then sold it to some chop shop for cash. When no more monthly payments are coming, the creditors go after… you.
Just make sure it’s not a fake. You can be sure every ****ing phishing scammer is salivating over the prospects of squeezing money out of the Zeek victims by asking them to ‘deposit money’ or ‘application fee’ or ‘advance notice fee’ or something of that sort.
Exactly, if you have something – there is always someone who wants it – that is what zeek just accomplished. It is better to be safe at this point then say, oh well, I can take care of it later by refusing charges to my c/c company.
It does not take much to hack accounts, and if you have money in your account, it can be zapped quickly.
Geez, I find myself with some spare cash on hand. Now that the Zeek bubble has burst and it is time to stop counting those imaginary points and close the door on that episode, what am I going to do with this money?
Any suggestions? Only ones which don’t include scamming friends and neighbours, placing bogus internet ads and saying happy, happy, joy, joy fifteen times each day will be considered. Thank you.
Yep,
stand under the shower while ripping up your money and flushing it down the drain.
You’ll end up as broke as the Zeek members, but, at least YOU’LL feel clean.
Haha @ littleroundman. I was hoping for something more innovative and challenging.
Maybe someone can build an app for affiliates to get up to date information in the coming years.
Simple. You could set up an on-line company called ZeekReeks and allow others to purchase one or more bags of 100% pure bull shit, to be be delivered and thrown into Paul Burks’ yard…while he’s playing Hide and Zeek
Easier to register on the receivers’ website.
One of the functions to which he agrees when accepting the receivership is keeping victims appraised of the situation.
You will see lots of misinformation in the coming weeks and months from vested interests claiming conspiracy and ripoff and all the receiver is doing is feathering his and the governments’ nest and yada, yada, yada
In reality, all 11,000 legitimate victims who registered with the AdSurf Daily receiver received a 100% return of their losses.
Wow there seems to be many Kool aid drinkers over here I’d imagine it’s tasting a little off right now.
I told you so just doesn’t quite do it justice.
“Let’s pick a car. They bought a 50K MB”
Pretty witty Chang. But if I’m buying a Mercedes fraudulently, I’m going with a $100k S class. Btw, you can call me Mr. Benz : )
Identityforce, which is an identity theft protection company like Lifelock, advises the following on its website:
If any of your important documents or information has been stolen, act quickly to minimize the potential damage:
Close credit card or bank accounts immediately.
If your Social Security Number has been compromised call the toll-free fraud number of any one of the three major credit bureaus (Experian, Equifax or TransUnion) and place an initial fraud alert on your credit reports. A fraud alert can prevent an identity thief from opening new accounts in your name. It is only necessary to place a fraud alert at one of the bureaus since the alert will be shared among all of them.
http://www.identityforce.com/Consumer/faq
Somewhere above a question was asked as to how much people might get back. Of course the correct answer was already given that it is impossible to say.
But one thing worth noting is that those lawyers rushing to file lawsuits first — in obvious hopes of being designated as the class action attorneys for all the other thousands (or hundreds of thousands?) of plaintiffs yet to file lawsuits — aren’t working for free, and almost certainly aren’t working on an hourly rate paid by their clients. They are working on contingent fee, probably one-third, with eyes on that juicy $225M pool of funds sitting there, so say goodbye to potentially a nice chunk of everything they recover…
which also sets up an interesting issue as to how things will be battled out as between the receiver, who on the one hand is apparently asking people to register their claims for possible reimbursement through an administrative process, versus the lawsuits already filed and to be filed in who knows how many courts, wherein claims for reimbursement are being sought separately through the court system.
I’m sure they’ll work out a solution, but there may be a few — ahem — fees incurred along the way. Stay tuned.
Buy a cargo van, a small generator, a computer, and a large format color printer with appropriate media (probably printable vinyl), with plenty of ink, and park near the Burks house with signs on the van that says “Buy your protest signs here”
Also, buy up the local supply of bullhorns, with a sign on the van that says “bullhorns for rent, $5 per hour, deposit required”
AND a decent amount of “sticks” for holding up the signs. Don’t forget a good supply of poster boards.
Actually a better sign for the van would be “Make your own protest sign here”
Don’t forget a good supply of thick Sharpie ™ permanent markers, assorted colors.
I’m off to the local dollar shop to stock up. Refreshments for the protestors would probably not go amiss either. dare I say it, ah go on, I know I want to. Kool aid!
Apparently, high demand over recent months has left supplies of KoolAid particularly low, so you may have trouble setting up your stand.
Where can I sign up?
Too bad “Surf’s Up,” the old ASD cheerleading forum that came to life after ASD was accused of operating a massive Ponzi scheme and trading on the name of the President of the United States to sanitize itself, went down for the count.
The Surf’s Up cheerleaders once sent packets of Kool-Aid to Bill O’Reilly of Fox News to see if they could get him on board the ASD Ponzi train.
And there was a plan to lobby AARP to see if they could get it to lobby for Ponzi schemes. Coinciding with that was a plan to see if they could have then-Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum brought up on charges of Deceptive Trade Practices, apparently for having the temerity to accuse ASD of operating a pyramid scheme.
Meanwhile, there was a letter-writing campaign to Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, to see if he would lobby for Ponzi schemes.
They also wanted the Senate to investigate the U.S. Attorney General, three federal prosecutors and a U.S. Secret Service agent, apparently for holding the view that wire fraud, securities fraud and selling unregistered securities is against the law.
False liens allegedly later were filed against a federal judge, three prosecutors and a Secret Service agent. This allegedly was done by purported “sovereign citizen” Kenneth Wayne Leaming, now jailed near Seattle after an investigation by an FBI Terrorism Task Force.
My view of the Zeek case is largely the same as my view of the ASD case: A major attack occurred on the U.S. financial infrastructure, making Zeek a threat to national security.
By and large, the wealth of local communities was transferred to a select few (in the grand scheme of things), and Lexington, N.C., now has become the new Quincy, Fla.
There basically is no difference between the theft template Zeek used and ASD used.
PPBlog
Choi: Thank you for your helpful advice. I had forgotten about registering with Experian, Equifax and the others. Gonna do that today. I already am receiving those updates quarterly via my Lifelock membership, but I will be making an alert registration and checking my info as often as possible, daily, if I can. Great advice!
Also, about the class actions – exactly. I used to work for attorneys and in the legal field, so I do know how all that works, which is why when Kevin Thompson sent out the first email and Troy endorsed him sometime over the weekend I think, I went, “Not so fast, buddy.” This is way too early to make decisions.
First of all, we have a lot of time on that one…in fact, I suspect we who lost a considerable amount (myself unfortunately in that group) will be in a fairly good position of lawyer shopping.
I’m not usually in favor of class actions because people abuse the system when they knew there was a risk involved. But in this case for me it’s not about the money, but hopefully wiping out as many folks at the top as much as we can…and making it at least a little bit harder for these scums to put out their biz opp sign so easily.
May be wishful thinking…but would like to think I can make a difference for others in the future!
As for me and my group of seven, all close family members and good friends, we are not relying on anyone, not even the guy who sponsored me for information. I told them to totally ignore any emails, calls, letters, etc until we share information.
Thankfully, one of my group put in $10,000 but he was able to stop payment Monday. I know the pros and cons of doing that, but still I’m relieved. A bird in the hand is worth ten in the bush. The others were all relatively small because I was a reluctant sponsor.
In fact, my friends joked about it. I kept saying, “Are you sure? Are you sure? Now, you know this is risky because of the penny auction thing.” I really thought that was the big risk.
Anyway, I guess that’s why I have so much peace over this. I lost money. So what? I didn’t lose friends or family members. So glad my gut was right in the end days. I turned away signing in several people…one guy, knowing nothing but trusting my husband me, wanted to “put in” $5,000 and had five friends ready to do the same.
I said, “Slow down..some things I’m not sure of right now. Let’s wait.” Wednesday before the crash, one of the friends I signed in wanted to put in $1500 more…again, by then, though I really smelled a rat…said, “No way!” So, the other part he lost, he’s not even thinking about. Just glad he didn’t put in more.
So, my side of the street is clean. I’ve always been a crusader of sorts, so I guess this is my current one. And for all of you who are contributors to this site, thank you so much.
I’ve said this before but it cannot be repeated too many times – YOU GUYS ARE DOING SUCH A PUBLIC SERVICE! It’s not easy standing up for what’s right in the face of a world that’s all about corruption, scamming people and narcissism on steroids.
KUDOS TO THE BEHINDMLM TEAM!!!!!
I put in about 4000, (notice how “compliant” I am by not saying “invested”), but never recruited anyone, and most likely never would have.I could list all the reasons why my common sense completely failed me, including my dream of being able to find alternative methods of treatment for my grand babies, who have serious medical issues and have had multiple surgeries.
But when all is said and done, it was the fact that all I could see were dollar signs, clouding my ability to reason and see the reality even when it was right in my face.
Now I am wondering why my sponsor is being so very quite. He will not keep me up to date on anything, and when I email HIM , his responses are more brief bursts of more BS.He has never divulged who his upline is.
The guy has done internet marketing for 15 years, so it is hard for me to believe he did not know what he was doing, especially when he would immediately go into his spreadsheet to blind me with the numbers whenever I had a question.
Wow, hadn’t even thought about that fallout. Those poor people that were probably not only employed by Zeek who were out of a job overnight. Bam!
I’m sure local businesses have been hurt greatly. I mean, these Red Carpet events were drawing hundreds if not thousands of visitors monthly, people who needed hotels, restaurants, everything. People came from miles just to make bid purchases…lines around the block at times.
These people all needed local goods and services. Business owners probably expanded/planned accordingly. Oh, these bad guys have to be brought down some way some how. Sometimes because I’m so close to this thing, I just break down and cry…not for myself but for the carnage left behind.
We can only hope that there were less than 100% willing top level affiliates who have at least a bit of conscience left that will start turning people in.
I am a believer in “What goes around comes around.” Maybe it’s not always payback in like for what you’ve done. But if you do the right thing as much as you can (a really hard thing in this world), you will be paid back in things that matter…good friends, peace in your heart, things no one can ever take from you.
And those of us who do at least try should get satisfaction that the folks who seem so successful in life, don’t even know what that is….
I would be pretty leery of a random, unsolicited email asking for bank account information in order to get reimbursed.
Like I said earlier, we can probably expect to see Nigerian-type scams where identity thieves get bank account info or try to string victims along having them pay “administrative fees” or whatever to get their money back.
FOX8 in High Point, NC’s archive of all their coverage of Zeek Rewards:
http://myfox8.com/tag/zeekler/
If I had to bet on it, he knew. No way could anyone have been in the biz and not known. In my case my immediate .of two are people we’ve known for years…totally trust the guys. They are just plain old overwhelmed right now.
The reason I’m not relying on them is because every single update is from an upline person and not far from them, only a couple of levels is one of the big players here. So, I’m treating that info like a salad bar ridden with salmonella. You should too.
Rely on yourself. Initially I sent my upline updates…that was way too exhausting. Hey, the ship went down…I’m looking out for my group, period.
About your grandkids’ situation, I’m very sorry. It’s not about the money, is it? It’s what we could have done with it to make our families’ lives better. My dream involved my kids and grandkids too, but certainly nothing like yours. Hang in there…
Thanks for the info on uncashed cashier’s checks. Glad a few were able to get their money back. I will try with my bank.
I haven’t seen info on recent deposits made by credit card or bank account through 1 of the 3 e-wallets.
Rather than attempt resolution through my own trial and error process, can affiliates (who I am sure have tried everything already) share what they have tried and if it was successful? Chargeback or dispute the charge?
Or can the experts on the forum offer advice?
Me again…sorry…but just opened an email that’s kind of strange…would like to have one of you super sleuth’s confirm its authentic.
Two days ago we cancelled one of the Zeek cr card transactions. I still have to go online and verify that the credit was made with the credit card company. But just opened an email confirming a successful credit card refund.
What’s odd however is the email came from “dcolivares@gmail.com”. Gmail account? Dawn Oliveras at gmail? Seems odd to me….
@ ZeekNoMore
Nope, not about the money in and of itself…me, I could live in the desert with nothing but the essentials. It is FREEDOM, and the safety and wellbeing of my loved ones.Thank you, and you hang in there aswell..
Alex de Brantes post on Facebook, for whatever it’s worth. Says he and Dawn are in the U.S.
https://www.facebook.com/adebrant/posts/143074495833260
Dawn’s probably working at McDonald’s and telling customers that they can’t use their Burger King dollars there.
I’m gonna throw up…
It seems than ALL nxpay accounts are frozen. Even non zeek related monies cannot be withdrawn. Thus if you deposited new money into nxpay, it too is frozen.
From nxpay:
Solid Trust Pay accounts are now also frozen.
Which puts to rest yet another HYIP ponzi players’ myth – that your money is safe in offshore payment processors.
About bloody time, too.
Whoops, just washed my keyboard and I can’t do a thing with it.
My post should read: The Zeek Rewards account/s at Solid Trust Pay are now also frozen, so there can be no refunds or reversals.
@little
can you point to the documentation regarding zeek and stp.
I was able to do reversals on 8/20. I’am waiting for the check to be sent.
I hope they won’t freeze that transaction.
It’s from an email being circulated on the usual suspect HYIP ponzi forums:
@little
Thanks. I do know that people that called STP on 8/20 were able to reverse transactions for 8/15 , 8/16. But if you sent them email, you got the message that the zeek monies were frozen.
It could be that is the email on file with the CC processor for Zeek?
@Wanker Everybody who worked in the office had to know that this was a ponzi. Ask Alex why was it that cashiers check that were sent by affiliates were put into the back office before they were cashed. That clearly shows that this was a scam.
Whoever dosen’t believe it, should call their bank, give them their cashiers check number and ask them when it was cashed and you will notice there is a time lag of anywhere from 2 weeks to 8 weeks from the time they were entered into back office to time when checks were cashed.
Open your eyes, zeek was a scam and even much bigger than Bernies as it affected more investors than Bernies scam. BidMaverick.
It’s being reported that there are several class action lawsuits being filed. My Question: As a victim, should I get in on one of these lawsuits or just wait to see what the SEC receiver says.
I really don’t want to sign up with a “ambulance chasing lawyer” but I don’t want to have the people they are representing go to the head of the line to try to recover losses all because they have a lawyer. Confused what to do at this point. Any suggestions?
I sent an email to info@zeekrewardsreceivership 2 days ago and never got a reply. Trying to get a reply out of them is just like trying to get an answer out of zeekrewards when it was still in business. Impossible!
I don’t know about “everybody”… I work with a lot of people that do what they do without any clue at all about the bigger picture.
Not trying to defend anyone at Zeek necessarily, but a lot of people at low-level jobs are more focused on simply getting through the day than worrying about the company’s business model, profits, or anything else.
Book checks and dump them in a box? Yes sir. Hey, who’s goin’ to the bar tonight?
Not sure who you’re speaking to in the above quote. I’ve always been aware that this was a scam, and I was never a Zeek affiliate.
I just noticed the FB post from Alex and was passing it along for informational or entertainment value.
Not a chance of that happening.
Please do NOT, and I repeat NOT throw one more cent at this.
Kevin Thompson was trying to get people to sign up so he could represent them. He stated that because he was a top mlm attorney that he would be able to have direct access to the receiver. Or something along those lines.
IMHO, you wait.
WHY? Because victims in ASD Ponzi didn’t need one.
Indeed, the only “lawyer” got involved sued the judges, prosecutors, and agencies for malicious prosecution. You may recognize his name: Schweitzer, one of the top affiliates in Zeek.
Won’t happen. Receiver just started taking over the case on Monday, sheesh. Told you it’s gonna take YEARS. This ain’t no credit card refund. This is gonna be a FULL INVESTIGATION, civilian style.
Receiver’s gonna take inventory of every penny RVG still has, track down every penny paid out to affiliates, transfer everything back to the US into the court appointed bank accounts, figure cost/benefit analysis on whether it’s worth it to go after some clawbacks and for what amount, give each enough time to reply (and cost of chasing them down as well), open the registration to all the victims, verify each of the victims and amount they put in (domestic AND international), close the registration, handle any “lawsuits” from the likes of Disner and Schweitzer, minus their own fees for handling the case, get everything approved by a judge, and finally pay everybody.
With 1 MILLION potential victims (some of which not so innocent), this will take TONS OF TIME.
Sheesh, their e-mail box is probably full already. There ain’t gonna be an official reply other than that “press release” they put on on Monday or Tuesday. The court order even says the RVG/Burks have like 30 days to turn over all assets or something.
This takes time. You’re NOT gonna be notified for every minutiae. Think about the logistics!
Patience, man, patience!
I am QUITE sure he did NOT say that. He may have IMPLIED it, that as a lawyer he has better access to the receiver (who’s also a lawyer) than you average Joes. That’d be… stretching the truth somewhat.
I have NO OPINION on Mr. Thompson. On one hand, I know him to be a man who points out failings of the MLM industry (try reading his blog… it’s a mix of MLM cheerleader articles AND several criticisms of the industry’s weaknesses) , but then, he IS a MLM attorney and it is in his personal and professional interest to help the industry.
The receiver will bring in his own team of lawyers and accountants to handle the duties of receivership. Mr. Thompson’s firm may be able to “help” by providing a little bit of logistical support, like “here’s a list of people we’ve compiled. Does this help you?” but then it’s nothing the receiver himself (or his deputies) can’t do.
IMHO, just wait. You can always join up LATER. Remember, lawyers don’t work for free. Receiver is gonna charge a reasonable rate for their work. The more lawyers join the feeding frenzy, the less you’ll get collectively.
You can put a fraud alert here with the credit agencies.
http://www.experian.com/fraud
This part will get interesting:
If the court grants discovery on the class action before waiting for the Receiver to complete his job, this would mean the top affiliates (however that is defined) will have to get their own lawyers to defend the law suit.
Keep in mind that the class action can focus on liability beyond just the monies distributed in the scheme. In a law suit you can allege that the top affiliates knew it was a Ponzi and recruited/promoted anyways.
You as the victim could have spent a lot of other costs than just the Zeek investment. You could have spent money on sales & marketing, you could have left another MLM and claim the lost income from that move, since it was based on fraud and the top affiliates knew that, makes the top affiliates liable for that lost income.
Lots of potential issues here above & beyond the money in the Ponzi itself. What did Randy say… “a trail of devastation”. Oh, Troy (and all Zeek supporters), you should have listened to the critics from day 1.
No need to go name brand. Generic equivalent would do. Remember, those people are in economic straits. No need to fleece them.
I actually read that on Facebook. Gotta love it when the scamees are so stupid that they believe the scammers are the ones being persecuted by the government.
Heh, Jim Jones actually used the off-brand Flavor Aid.
Cheap bastard.
Might want to make it lemondade. I’m betting the last Kool Aid they drank left a bad taste in their mouth.
K. Chang…Joe Mama
Very clever & Too funny.
have anyone seen this lost video of a Paul Burks meeting?
I agree the lawyers will take awhile, cost alot and do have a daunting task ahead of them. I read somewhere the reciever must acoount the funds to a judge within a year timetable.
AS far as logistical support wouldnt access to zeek file with everyone info from their backoffices make the task fairly easy on redistribution of funds. Its all the fake accounts that would make me want to have some tylenol nearby if trying to sort this fiasco out.
Yeah, but remember how sloppy the records they kept are. I know one lady who inexplicably received an extra $2,800.00 commission payment via STP a few months ago… we’ll see what happens with that.
That would be charity for someone like you.
Here is interesting story about Aunt Weber so called Joanne Weber who should be in the famous list of 200 never to work with in MLM.
She had more than half the affiliates under her ( more than 500,000). I am sure she knew that Zeek Rewards was going down as she stopped retuning calls in last 45 days. She said she knew Paul Bruks for over 14 years as she was also invovled in his previous firm FSC .
I got a recorded audio call from a source who is thinking of putting it on youtube . You can hear her say
1. Zeek just opened a 27,000 sq ft warehouse in NC
2. Zeek will soon increase their auctions from 300 a day to 1000 a day
3. Zeek is so profitable when it comes to Penny Auction
4. Zeek is not a ponzi, they make so much money selling Retail Bids.
5. Peoples money is so safe and secure as zeek keeps it in separate bank account
She was so full of BS and she gave newbies misleading and false information. She should also be investigated. If you want to be lured by her in another MLM ponzi scam, google her. She should get the award for building the biggest downline in the biggest Ponzi MLM scams in history .
All these oldies such as Todd Disner, Dwight Schweitzer, Joanne Weber, Paul Bruks use their charm and influence to lure people into such scams and then when it goes down they move away to another scam and care about no one. Stay away from anything they have to offer.
Here’s the latest Dispatch article…
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120823/NEWS/308239979/1005?p=all&tc=pgall
@kschang,
Has Troy Dooly or Len Clements given you an explanation of WHY they think Zeek was NOT a Ponzi? They make those claims in their various blogs/articles and videos for Troy, but I have yet to see an explanation.
I know you’ve had some email conversations with them so am curious if they have given you any details, or perhaps we can encourage them to make a public post about it.
It’s one thing to say “I don’t think Zeek is a Ponzi” and quite another to articulate your position using business or legal rationale.
The 30+ page “report” is on Len’s website marketwave.com or something like that. There’s a section (quite short) on why Mr. Clements think it’s not a Ponzi.
Can you give me your sponsors initials ?
Troy Dooly just put up a video I’m currently penning an article on. Will be published later today. Rather than dissect it he’s just linked to it, which is a bit irritating.
“JC” initially published the video as a comemnt here around 7 hours ago but it was held for moderation. When I saw it, I decided it deserved its own writeup. I’ve gone through about 3/4 of it and will be publishing in a few hours.
Brief synopsis: It’s a video dated late 2011 between Paul Burks and presumably some top members. In it, Paul Burks admits Zeek Rewards is a Ponzi scheme.
Please refrain from discussion on the video till the new article is up, or we’re going to have confusion and most likely duplicate discussions going on over this and that article. It’ll be up in a few hours (the video is an hour long and I’ve almost finished timestamping it).
(Ozedit: and we’re live – https://behindmlm.com/companies/zeek-rewards/ceo-paul-burks-admits-zeek-rewards-a-ponzi-scheme/)
Too bad all these were discovered AFTER the whole thing went down, heh?
Ok first of all enough of the religion crap that has nothing to do with any of this
Secondly, the 1099’s are Bogus they sent me 3 separate one many months apart telling me they made a mistake and corrections, I went through with my tax attorney and it made no sense on what they were saying were actal monies to be taxed
Third everyone stop blaming each other it’s Paul and dawn and those dicks that caused this mess and intentionally, u think they give a crap about any “damage” they caused
And lastly, around the the end of zeek both bank cards I used to make subscription payments all of a sudden triggered my bank to call me with Fraud. deprtment.
I looked in my account and there they were charges in Ireland Oregon, Canada, and UK. All within a few days……hint. I live in FLORIDA, wasn’t me, and my other cards were fine no problems.
So people watch out yes I believe identity thieves are part of this, I believe Paul and dawn and other zeek management sold our info for even more money
@ Bouncin Betty
LS
My heart does go out to people who lost money, but I think that they should look to the affiliate that signed them up, and that person should man up, take responsibility and pay their down line back.
The worst part about this is people have got family and friends involved, because they were easy targets.. shame on you all.
@Aussie – My sentiment exactly.
Ooooooh boy a new article 😀 Haven’t been this exceted since a week ago….when zeek died haha.
Lets see GMT +8,its 1pm there now
I suggest that affilates ignore on getting their money back because then they would have to deal with the feds and IRS.
Zeek is gone, and so many members in this joint. Its prob impossible to track how much everyone have put into their pocket. Affilates may be safe this year on reporting their earnings
I’m waiting for the ‘Insider Trading’ charges to be leveled against the execs, especially if they started cashing out early while the rest of the affiliates kept on compounding.
I asked Troy about that on a few comments, as did others, and he seemed to say “the insiders should not do that, it’s not fair to the distributors” but he didn’t seem to think it was serious.
Well, he doesn’t think Zeek is a Ponzi either, so we should probably start with the 800-lb gorilla in the room first before we call out the lions, tigers, and bears.
Not mine, but sounded just like em.
@Daniel, glad you brought this up, my husbands card too had fraudulent charges, soon after the first charge came from Korea for a Zeek transaction. The fraud charges appeared to be coming from our state, although not anywhere near where we live.
Someone had a good time going fishing and buying sporting goods, maybe a cell phone too. Since it was in the same state, I wasn’t sure, and still of course am not sure if it had anything or not to do with Zeek. Just interesting though.
Anybody else?
Another consequence of fraud card use is that the merchant who accepted the card gets burned…more unintended victims.
@Internet Insider:
“There are lots of people who just are not equipped to evaluate this thing properly, who got in on the advice of a good friend or relative. There are others who should have know better but were blinded by the money. Even this group doesn’t deserve to be ripped off by criminals. ”
Insider I totally agree. The friend who recruited me and the people who attended the “affiliate” meetings knew nothing about basic accounting principals, business models, or federal laws regarding investing/trading. They lacked even basic knowledge of how to use the Internet to conduct research, several did not even have internet connection.
This local group were recruited in an area of high unemployment, low rages, and high percentage of high school dropouts.
My friend fell under all these areas and genuinely thought zeek was the answer for him and others to finally get their heads above water.
I was hired as an in-house investigator for a national company that unfortunately found itself on the wrong side of the Department of Justice. For over 10 years, my job was to investigate every allegation, searching out the facts, finding witnesses, and noting if the company was out of compliance on certain federal issues.
All this under scrutiny of Department of Justice selected monitors. Certain allegations took weeks to research and investigate. At times what seemed to be an open and shut case ended up involving dozens of people and taking months.
I never heard of these penny auctions until now, but through this site, the BBB, and the NC AG, and the NV AG, I am being well schooled.
Thanks to everyone commenting on this blog. Thanks for setting up this blog and doing the research. I know that those posting who were true victims of zeek have learned a painful but valuable lesson. My hats off to you for having the courage to come forward and admit it.
As I advised my friend I am advising you: instead of investing a $1000 into someone else’s dream/vision, invest it in your self first. There are many community colleges that offer legtitimate certified classes for $1000 sometimes less in bookkeeping, medical coding, entreprenuership, photography, web development, CAD, etc.
Of course, these require hard work and self promotion, but each does have the potential for true unlimited income.
Hey Oz, when i try to view the video, I get a script that says, “This video is private”. ????
Looks like ‘soljaboy2006’ decided to pull the upload. I’ll redirect it to Dooly’s feed, same timestamps.
I’ve got my own copy to upload if it goes down again.
Thanks amigo
@The Brute
Thanks – its nice to hear from those with some compassion for those who were taken in by these crooks. There is alot of great analysis from most of the regulars on this site, and their honest search for the truth has saved many from this nightmare.
I believe this is the greatest demonstration of compassion one can offer.
To those who post here to boast how intelligent they are for having avoided this nightmare, and how stupid anyone else is for having gotten involved? I guess you gotta feel good about yourself someway/somehow, and for some that means stepping on others to raise yourself up.
But its really not necessary of you already believe in yourself.
Not sure what you mean by that? You appear to be making a lot of assumptions based on very little information.
What do you guys make of this?
It was on the receivers website in the FAQ section:
I know several people that stopped payment on Cashiers checks
Depends on how hard receiver wants to complete the process. He could even start clawbacks with those cashier’s checks if he wants to. Though I think he’ll do eWallets first. Those are easy.
And, it is also down to the bank and whether or not the cheque was drawn on an account or paid for in cash.
It is entirely possible that when word of the seizure/receivership filters down to the bank, it will simply reverse the refund transaction in the account AND the accountholder will have to wear any costs, including overdraw fees if the reversal puts the account into negative territory.
Not theory, it happened during the AdSurf Daily receivership. The court order is very clear WRT the financial institutions responsibilities.
The court order came into effect immediately and NOT when the financial institutions finally heard about it. Yet another hole in which Zeek and Burks put their “loyal members”
The receiver doesn’t have much other choices than to cancel the cancellations (collect the money). Each investor have similar rights, depending on which “class” they belongs to. He can’t let any of them collect their own money on the expense of others with similar rights.
If he let ONE member of a class cancel a cashier check, then he must let all other members of the same class do the same. And it isn’t up to the receiver to decide it either, it has to be decided by a court.
The ones who have stopped Cashier checks are the first ones to face a clawback. But stopping a payment isn’t a bad idea in itself.
Both the people who stopped the checks and the banks had serious reasons to believe an action like that would be the correct one, and both of them acted responsible.
So when in doubt about a payment, STOP IT to prevent potential loss. But be prepared for a situation where you’ll have to pay it anyway. There’s nothing wrong in an action like that to prevent a potential fraud.
Cashier checks that haven’t been added to the “pool of money” CAN become a class of its own, with special rights. But it will be up to the receiver and the court to decide classes and rights.
Im guessing that there is a high probability that they wont get the clawback done in 90 days. My cashier check was received by zeek on 7/18. My bank gladly returned the $$. Ive got 50 days to go.
It takes years for this to be sorted out. If there are really 2 million investors it will take at least 5 years if not more.
I knew of a ponzi that had 1000 investors, the DOJ sent checks out for 50% of investment 3 years later. Anyone hoping for a quick return of cash can forget it, you might as well right this one off.
If you get anything you might be able to take your family out to dinner at Applebee’s
Not sure if this might’ve been posted already, but if not, would anybody care to chime in?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2012/08/27/up-next-for-zeekrewards-ponzi-scheme-victims-clawbacks/
Which is exactly what happened in previous ponzi prosecutions.
If you go to the website set up by the receiver in the Colon End Parenthesis (CEP) HYIP ponzi case, you can see exactly the steps the receiver took to recover monies from the “winners” and insiders, including court approved negotiated settlements http://www.wfperkinsforcep.com/
If I were the receiver, I’d get those clawback negotiations out soon and give the top affiliates a chance to settle THIS calendar year.
Think about the tax implications. If you made $100k on Zeek and have to pay taxes this year. Then you settle or get a claw back next year, you might come out at a NET LOSS because your tax deductions for 2013 won’t cover the taxes you paid for 2012.
Plus top affiliates who spent money on their business, such as buying fake customers, advertising, hosting parties, dinners, taking prospects out to lunch and “living the Zeek life” etc. spent all that money against what they thought were profits.
Zeek is changing lives, indeed.
All the Zeek supporters claiming the SEC has just got their facts wrong need to read PatrickPretty’s recent news article that reveals:
Did you see that? HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOCUMENTS.
Yeah, the evil SEC came in on a whim to steal the business….RIIIIIIIGGGGHHT
Newest update on Troy Dooly impersonator very funny in this time of feeling upset with Zeek. You will laugh I promise.
better than snl scits in a while.
They really got his mannerisms down, along with his cell phone going off in the middle of videos.
Yeah, if you get past about :33 in that first one and aren’t laughing, you’ve either never seen a Troy Dooly Zeek video, or you’re dead.
“I have an American flag behind me, I must be right.” LOL
“Troy Dooly. I mean I’m just a great guy”.
This guy probably stole that line from a real Troy Dooly video!!!
In the end of the story all the poor people will lose their money, in the best case they will get five cent on 1 dollar, the attorney firm who got the case will eat up 80% from the 225 millions and will get extremely rich , Mr Burk goes to jail, case closed.
What absolute nonsense.
Tell us, Nagy, how many ponzi receiverships have you studied ??
The verified victims of the AdSurf Daily HYIP ponzi scam got back 100% of their deposits.
What’s more, the receiver is now giving anyone who didn’t claim the first time another opportunity to make a claim.
80% fee for the receiver.
What absolute B/S.
And based on what did you make this prediction? Or are you a pessimistic person by nature?
Here’s one for all you zeeksters…..you will just die!!!!!!..I was just emailed proof (PROOF) that one of the zeeksters who deposited a counter check into zeekrewards to as to purchase sample bid credits was just defrauded by whom ever has control of the Rex Venture Group assets….
I personally saw the front of two separate copies of her original counter check executed in July 2012…and the very same check submitted in 10 12 2012….i saw that who ever submitted the item completely defrauded the bank, the zeekster, rex venture group AND the American public…remember the assets are supposed to be in control of the receiver….what kind of receiver would allow such a thing to happen????
i cannot wait for the complete investigation of how much this receiver is billing out against the assets…. follow the money kids…if you see a skull and bones on that flag flying over the top of the receivers office…you will have a clue…..as to what this is all about.
Feel free to forward on this “proof”, otherwise this’ll just get chalked up as more Robert Craddock style bravado.
It’s well known that Zeek Rewards were sloppy cashing cheques, and that the receiver most likely found a bunch of them sitting in a “I’ll get to this stuff when I’ve finished convincing everyone how much of a harmless great guy I am” drawer in Burks’ office.
If the cheque was mistakingly drawn twice (faxed in, photocopied in etc.), all the owner has to do is run off to the bank and show them the “evidence” and it’ll get rectified.
The problem of course isn’t with the receiver, it’s with the sloppiness of the Ponzi operators behind Zeek Rewards who kept such shabby records and bookkeeping.
Storm, meet teacup.