Polaris Media Group: Analysing the new product line
The biggest problem with the Liberty League sales model was that everybody knew nobody was paying those prices without the pyramid scheme business opportunity attached. Effectively you weren’t buying retail products, you were buying the right to resell the business opportunity you were buying into to others.
What this meant was that if you got in early and signed up enough people, you could effectively sit back and relax as qualifying products were sent to you as the bottom level of your sales pyramid attempted to resell the opportunity to others.
With Polaris Media Group we’re apparently going to see a shift away from the business opportunity and instead more focus on the products.
After having a look at the new lineup of products, I can honestly say I’m not convinced Polaris Media Group is going to be any more sustainable then Liberty League was.
The reason?
The underlying problem is still fundamentally the same.
To understand my conclusion it’s important first to have a look at the new line of products. Prices have recently been released for the Polaris Media Group line of products, they are as follows (in AUD using current US-AUD exchange):
1. Know for yourself – $29.95
Know for yourself is available as single dvd for $29.95 or in a 10 pack for $299. At this point it’s not entirely clear whether there’s 10 separate components of the product that are also bundled in a ten pack or whether the ten pack is ten copies of the one disc in a bulk buy resale pack.
Polaris Media group are marketing that they will be selling a range of 20+ products at launch so it could very well be 10 individual components.
The development of the personal computer and the explosive growth of the Internet is one of the most significant events in our history. However, living in “the information age” does not guarantee the information is true or unbiased. Learn how to Know For Yourself in this confidence building DVD.
The wording of this sales pitch is very important. Have a read over it again and you’ll see that it does two things:
- It asserts that information from Polaris Media Group about their own products is guaranteed to be true and unbiased.
- It places emphasis on the fact that after using this product, you will have better confidence (in the rest of the products).
There’s a reason Know for yourself is priced at $29.95, the sole purpose of this product is to allow Polaris distributors to fend off awkward ‘but I saw on the internet’ questions from prospective buyers.
Know for yourself is cheap enough for most people to just throw down the cash without too much hesitation (as opposed to the previous entry level Beyond Freedom’s $1495 price tag under the Liberty League model).
Know For Yourself is essentially the ‘media blackout’ component the old Beyond Freedom program, but in a much more affordable package.
Would you buy a marketing product from a company in any other industry that discouraged you from conducting your own research and presented itself as the only guaranteed source of true and unbiased information about its products?
2. Beyond Freedom Evolution: Departure – $875
Beyond Freedom Departure is the next product and is the first breakdown of the old Beyond Freedom program. It comes in three parts and can be bought as a whole for $875 or seperately for $350 each ($1050 total).
After watching Know For Yourself, Polaris distributors are counting on the fact that you now believe any information that isn’t put out by Polaris Media Group is negative garbage. It is now with Beyond Freedom Departure that the grooming begins.
Departure is your next step in your Beyond Freedom Evolution™. This three-phase multi-media learning system is your launch pad to self-reliance and personal freedom. Here you will learn vital distinctions which separate successful individuals from those stuck in a rut.
Departure is marketed as a learning system. Whereas previously you would be coached by your advisor, the abolishing of the training sales means naturally they don’t have the time to train teach you anymore.
With no training sales to pass up, by the time you’ve coughed up they’re too busy trying to sell the products to the next customer.
Again the marketing spiel is carefully selected to target those who feel they are ‘stuck in a rut’. These are the people most likely to subscribe the program and slowly work their way up to the larger ticket items.
Utilizing data from studying successful people, the Departure program will help you to dramatically increase your ability to Know For Yourself™, and help you gain confidence through examples from real-world achievers. Order today.
The second half of the marketing spiel is more obvious. The ‘succesfull people’ mentioned are the top earners under Liberty League – Polaris Media Group will attempt to sell you the idea of making it based off the success of those who started the Liberty League pyramid scheme eight years ago.
So now Polaris have convinced you everybody else is full of crap, you’re stuck in a rut and can be like the top earners if you continue with their program. So what’s next?
Note: Total investment at this point is $1174 or $1349 if Departure is bought separately.
3. Beyond Freedom Evolution: Decision – $1575
The second part of Beyond Freedom Evolution also comes in three parts and is $1575 bundled or $1785 separately.
Aptly named ‘decision’, by this stage Polaris figured you’ve invested enough to continue and if you’ve gotten this far in the program are pretty much willing to believe anything they spoonfeed you.
They’re cleverly crafted the image of success in your mind (and you thought you were getting a bargain at $29.95) and now it’s time to commit.
In this three-phase series, you will learn the values of decisiveness and what it takes to make personal choices resulting in improved self reliance and certainty. See for yourself how your past decisions are impacting your life today.
In business and in life, leaders and entrepreneurs are decision-makers. Learn how to be a leader in your own life with new found self confidence in decision-making.
“In the past you’ve made bad decisions and look where you are, you’re not one of us earning six figures now are you? Let us convince you to make the decision to be one of us and *mumble muble something something* income disclaimer *mumblehgnngngng* WELCOME ABOARD!”
BFE: Decision is nothing more then a fluffed out three part series with the sole purpose of convincing you that you’re making the decision to commit on your own. I mean if all these great top earners made the decision to commit and made millions of dollars the next day surely that could happen to me…right?
4. Beyond Freedom Evolution: Action $2240
So you’ve decided to commit and then here comes the ‘action’. Beyond Freedom Action is again a 3 part program and bundled is $2240 or sold separately for $840 ($2520).
Action is the bridge between philosophy and results. You will learn the keys to managing activities and getting more done in less time leading to more personal freedom. Learn true prioritization and how to overcome procrastination that is influencing your decisions.
‘Action’ is buying into the program, ‘philosophy’ is the brainwashing training you’ve received from the previous products and ‘results’ are the dollars you now think you can earn.
‘Procrastination’ is everything else you do in life when you’re not buying Polaris Media Group products.
Here, you will develop new habits which help make you achieve success. Once completed, you are on your way to achieving success and be prepared for the Beyond Freedom Evolution™ advanced courses.
Note that we’ve long since abandoned the prospect of gaining confidence and enriching your life, now it’s all about the sell. Polaris Media Group will “make” you have success and the only way how is to keep buying our products.
The marketing spiel at this point doesn’t need to be as flowery as it was when you were paying $29.95 a disc. Let’s face it, at this point you’ve invested just under $5000 into this business.
You’ve long since forgotten about the self help component of the products, now you’re in it for the business opportunity.
5. The Conferences
Polaris Media Group have distanced themselves from Liberty League’s infamous conferences and now call them ‘live events’. This is no doubt just one component of the overall strategy of shedding the business opportunity image in favour of the ‘helping people for $29.95’ mantra.
5,000 into the business and determined to be a top earner this is what you’ll be coughing up:
a. Foundation $2,373
b. Sovereignty $13,993
c. Influence $22,743
Under Liberty League the most expensive conference, the Summit set you back $16,628. As you can see under Polaris Media Group that higher end cap has now jumped by over $6000.
The people behind Polaris Media Group have been doing conferences for eight years, how drastically different do you think the Polaris conferences are going to be? You’ll still go there to hear people speak, they’ll probably throw in some ‘life-changing’ activities for everyone to do but at the end of the day the message is the same.
Get out there and sell as much of this crap to as many people as you can.
Now that you’re familiar with the products Polaris are offering, here’s why nothing has changed. At the end of the day for the company to be successful people have to be making money. With the training sales pyramid scheme abolished, Polaris distributors will have to rely on their products to make any money.
With the exception of the conferences, none of the training products are re-occurring consumables, you buy them once and that’s it.
Now the conferences, where I assume like Liberty League the real money will be made, are re-occurring consumables in that they are one off ticket events. Given the price tags, with the possible exception of the Foundation conference (which is about 1.5 times the original Beyond Freedom price), how many people do you think are going to outlay $14,000 and $22,743 annually just to feel better about themselves?
We’re not talking chump change here we’re talking $36,743. That’s a years salary for some people.
In light of this I believe Polaris are going to have the same problems as Liberty League did, conferences filled with people selling the business opportunity.
The lower priced products certainly aren’t going to be pulling in six figure incomes for anyone and they all progressively lead to the conferences.
You don’t go to the expensive profit generating conferences unless you want to emulate the success of the top earners and resell the business.
See the problem here?
Polaris Media Group has the exact same problem Liberty League had, all they’ve effectively done is lower the entry point to hopefully catch even more people in their net.
Along with this they’ve also raised the top level product by over $6000 to try and compensate distributors for the lack of profit in the lower priced products.
Need more proof I’m not just making this up?
The just released Polaris Media conference call tutorial posted by Rod is clearly aimed at targeting people who might have previously walked because they couldn’t afford Beyond Freedom’s $1495 price tag.
Remember, it’s never a lack of money that prevents someone from getting started. It’s either that they are unable to see beyond their present time problem enough to believe they can have achieve a better future, there is something they don’t understand or they lack motivation and really were not a qualified prospect.
So, don’t buy into it being about money. With Polaris, anyone can get started. They can get started with Know for Yourself, as well as Beyond Freedom.
Note the language. On the outside Polaris Media market their products as tools to help people enrich their lives through personal development. Internally however prospects are still encouraged to ‘get started’ on the road to becoming a distributor.
This is where the profit comes from and in that sense nothing has changed from Liberty League.
Here’s even more proof, after reading everything I’ve explained to you listen to this training call from Polaris themselves and tell me it’s not about recruiting people under you.
Selling ‘retail’ products or suckering people in with a $29.95 dvd the premise remains the same, you need people under you to make money in this business.
The last point I’ll leave you with is the actual marketing of Polaris Media Group as an exciting new fresh opportunity.
The simple truth is it’s not.
Liberty League started it’s sales pyramid organically. The company, as CEO Shane Krider loves to point out started in a living room with a couple of people and began it’s infestation from there.
Eight years later those who got in early were used as posterchildren for new associates to aspire to despite the fact that this was nigh on impossible in a country with an established Liberty League marketplace.
Polaris Media Group is starting over again but this time it’s not organic. The official launch is next Tuesday the 9th and this time from the get go distributors are going to be competing with even more fierce competition due to the lower price point products and lack of training sale profits.
A pyramid scheme only works when you’re one of the first to introduce it to a new marketplace. Rebranding an old pyramid scheme and introducing it again into an already saturated market simply won’t achieve the same level of ‘success’ for those who believe they are getting in at the top.
These reasons are why I simply believe Polaris Media Group, like Liberty League before it will simply inevitably just collapse in on itself.
After reading all that, I’m starting to think that it would be cheaper to become a Scientologist…….
At least I’d have a chance at meeting Xenu then….
Argh whilst reading this article the Nowucan2 Ad came on….(Note to self 6.25PM Foxtels 111Hits during Home Improvement) Anyways great work Oz(as always) hopefully the Govy depts take notice and stop this scam once and for all before more peoples lives are ruined…
Good stuff Oz.
I know that PolarisMediaGroup affiliates from ‘tin’ level membership right up to the ultimate ‘platinum’ membership absolutely detest hearing the word ‘average’.
Thought they might like to have a look at the stats for their ‘new’ mlm sector;
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/ausscience0802.htm
Foxtel are at risk of being prosecuted by the office of fair trading if they are still promoting Liberty League International.
…I’m sure a $100,000+ fine might make them take notice?
Make sure to go to youtube and check out Tony Rush’s videos. Then flag as many of them as you can. The flag button is just below the video and allows you to give a reason for the flag. Hold the curser over spam and you will get an option for scams/fraud. Click on this to make youtube aware that this crook is using their product to rip people off. Hopefully they will then remove all his crap.
Is Lifepath Unlimited the same as LLI/PMG?
Maybe. Still probably need some government authority to step in and give some direction, tho.
Considering both systems have been in a fight with each other for a while (prior to Oz and Whirlpool stepping in with DoFT stuff), it wouldn’t be too much to assume they are fruit from the same tree.
Just like Yahoo and Google, same deal, different companies.
Forget average, those figures represent a below mediocre income.
After a long conversation with Fair Trading NSW, anyone in this state who participates will be open to a $22k fine. The are currently building a case for the Supreme Court to outlaw it. Problem is…it takes time. I think the group is trying to make as much money as they can before this happens.
You lot need your heads read. For one thing any job you work in is a pyramid and try knocking the boss off the top! For another thing a pyramid is legally defined as you buy product and sell it to the next person for more and so on. Pyramids are illegal and there are NONE in Australia. So if people are making so much money as defined on the leader board in the back office, how come anyone needs to recreate a scam before the NSW court closes it down. Get a life the lot of you and if you respond to this you can be sure I won’t be reading it so don’t waste your negative breath expecting me to.
LOL
I wish they would get some new material.
Well it certainly should… these two businesses are interchangable if you look at their own actions.
I just had a listen to one of their business overview calls.
http://pmgnorthstar.com/boc/au/
This is what they say…
The “Know Yourself” dvd is ‘widely acclaimed’ and a ‘fast growing phenomenon’ that is ‘making a real impact in people’s lives’. Not sure how that can be true when its only just been released.
There are ‘testimonials’ on the call from people who state they found Polaris a year or two ago. One had a best day in business of “$26,000”, another states he has made over “$200,000 in this business” and then we have “$500K in sixteen months”. Now as Polaris only launched this week, I find that hard to believe… would they perhaps be talking about their Liberty League experience. If so, surely that is a blatant misrepresentation as the Polaris opportunity is structured very differently to LLI.
Maybe they have gotten around the illegal pyramid classification, but the words SCAM and BLATANT LIES still come to my mind!
Whether PMG is legal or not. The fact is LLI is illegal in NSW and it is still trading until 8.9.09. This is simply against the law. When and if a ruling comes down, everyone who participated in LLI has broken the law.
Oh yes you will, is it Val Howard???
Excellent news. I’ll try to get further clarification on the supreme court case and hopefully a final answer on whether LLI’s classification carries onto Polaris like it did in South Dakota in the US.
Hi grandma, you might want to read ‘Liberty League a scam in Oz, Polaris Media Group next?‘ and reclarify your stance.
I know you said not to waste our breath responding to your thoughts but seeing as I typed this with my hands I thought it’d be ok.
Cheers.
They haven’t launched yet, still in prelaunch till 09/09/09.
Although having said that they’re still operational and functioning, the pre-launch seems to just be for the backend to get their shit together.
tried to make a comment on the polaris You Tube video , asking about the costs of seminars , it wouldn’t load or accept ????
Yep, only truly positive comments allowed. You could try and hide a link back to here or the Whirlpool thread via a tinyurl, but my guess is that it would be found. Can’t have us naysayers spoiling the party can they?
Oh and QLD Grandmother….. thanks for sharing….
errr… does that mean that all people in Australia are working illegally?? Make up your mind.
If your ‘new’ company are direct sales why not have your products on the $2 websites that we all see everywhere?
It wouldn’t have anything to do with getting people on to the seduction calls now would it?
Direct sales companies have no need for the ‘see if we have a match’ crap. They sell products not false hopes.
We all know that the business is still all about recruiting suckers to make YOU money, not about helping people lead a better life. The back office leaderboard (obviously true figures!)only tells me that the same dozen or so people, month after month, are better at scamming than 95% of those already scammed.
I hope you’re not scamming any of the other grannies at the bingo…. now that would be low.
After writing this last night I promptly sent an email to foxtel with the information, they emailed me back straight away this morning. This is what the email said…
Dear Rachel
Thank you for your email to FOXTEL.
I appreciate the time you have taken to contact us regarding the advertisements for Six Figure Chicks, UXL and nowucan2.com.au screened on 111 Hits, 3 September 2009 at 6.25PM. I understand your concerns regarding this advertisement and we take your concerns very seriously.
We are in the process of reviewing the advertisements mentioned in your email to make certain they meet The Australian Subscription Television and Radio Association Codes of Practice (the “Code”) which is available at http://www.astra.org.au. Once this review is completed I will be in contact with you to discuss the outcome. Please note that this process may take some time and your patience is appreciated.
So that I may document your concerns on your FOXTEL account, could you please provide me with your contact details including your home address and telephone number?
If you are not satisfied with our response you may contact the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). ACMA’s contact details are available at http://www.ACMA.gov.au.
If you have any further concerns regarding this, please call me directly….
I was givin a direct line number which I can call him on but won’t display it here pretty much for the same reasons oz won’t give out the DoFT details.
Most likely your comment is being held in a moderation queue. Can’t have the general public asking questions that aren’t screened first now can we.
Anyone though about writing with all the DoFT info to the International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network? They are about to do a sweep of all finance scams etc….
Can’t believe the negativity here, knowing what I know and what you don’t know makes me aware that all of you need to get a life that fulfills you. Spouting this drivel over a company that wants to make money and help others to make money and to attain a lifestyle that obviously MOST of you don’t have and are resentful of the fact that many people know how to make money and live a life of joy. My joy comes from seeing the happiness in the faces of people I know who are now living a life they could only dream of in the past. I feel sorry for all of you who can’t see past your own negativity and are stuck there.
Queensland Grandmother, You seem an avid fan of MLM and believe in its uses and merits.
Everyone is privy to their own opinions and comments until those actions and comments are proven “illegal and immoral” (there is M’s, L’s and I’s in those two words).
MLM and LLI is illegal. Employment funny enough is legal. what Polaris Media Group and its previous subsidiaries, all the advertising for the individual groups, and all its participants will one day learn that. I only hope it does not ruin too many more lives than it already has.
I wish you the best, if i see your sign up on the lamp post advertising executive income i may even leave it on the ground so you can take it home and use it for a TV dinner tray. Cheers
Dito for Dont believe
Obviously you are in TOTAL DENIAL. You are only seeing the success as you have been trained to block out the negative.
Have you seen the Income disclosure? What about the 85%, and before you start with “It was their own fault for not putting in 100%, not following the system, not doing Beyond Freedom blah blah, remember that these people that did not succeed may of put in their heart and soul, worked the business, were part of the crowd, went to the conferences, even people that you connected with. Even I could of connected with you at some point.
There are FAR MORE stories of debt, financial and personal ruin created by Liberty League than there are positive.
Zedex, MLM is not illegal. Pyramid selling is illegal. MLM and pyramid selling are not the same thing. There are lots of legitimate MLM schemes around – Tupperware, Avon, Tri Nature to name a few.
One clue to deciding if something is an illegal pyramid scheme is to ask “can the last person to join still make money?” If the answer is NO then it is likely to be a pyramid scheme.
I personally don’t have a problem with LLI products. I purchased their Beyond Freedom product for the sole purpose of helping me to improve myself (as it states it will IF you follow as they suggest). I had no intention of doing the business so didn’t buy the next stages. The Beyond Freedom Product helped me to find my passion in life and now have a very successful business that has nothing to do with LLI or Polaris or personal development.
I agree with Mr Nader that there are plenty of MLM businesses out there that are fine but you woudn’t just join them without having a look first. If you are not passionate about Makeup why would you sell Avon? Same goes for Liberty League -if you are not passionate about Personal Development why would you try and sell it? You alone are the only one who knows what you are capable of, so make you own decisions about a business based on your own understanding of yourself not what someone tells you is possible.
Beyond Freedom may be helpful to some people, but why pay $1,500 when you can get the same information for $30?
I just want to say I was a part of LLI and making a bit of money.I think I couldve made alot more but I know I wasnt doing everything I could and I also didnt have a lot of money to advertise.I think LLI was a great biz op and I have to say the beyond freedom product is truely amazing and has changed the way I think for the better and has helped me through some tuff times BUT I have to say Im not happy with the changeova to polaris and I cant believe ppl are getting on the business calls sayn they’ve made this and that and polaris is great when polaris is only new.I mean I know its same/similar products but comp plan is different and there is no proof yet that this new biz model even works.
I came into LLI to help other ppl who are just like me and make money I think polaris is extremely misleading and I dont know how these ppl on the boc calls can sleep at night, they are outright lying. I will not be continuing on with the new system simply because Im a genuine person and this just doesnt fit right with me.
Thanx for reading.
Vince,
I already had read /listened /watched heaps of stuff that cost $30 but was always left feeling like there was something missing. Beyond Freedom took it further and made everything clearer and didn’t leave you wondering “how” like lots of the other stuff such as “The secret”. So for me, it was well worth the money.
How do u know it is the same thing?
http://www.audioacrobat.com/play/WmJTGrlK Polaris Media Group Q&A recording
Are they making this up as they go along?? Talk about confusing.
Exactly what I was thinking. Shane “make-it-up-as-i-go” Krider is supposed to be the big leader? LOL. He doesn’t even know how his own business runs.
Sounds like they’re getting a mafia team together..
Shane ‘make it up’ Krider,
Tony ‘delete’ Rush,
Rachel ‘the shoes’,
Rahnia’ the chick’,
‘The Awesome ones’
Commonly known in the underworld at the ‘fake-it-till-you-make-it mob!!!
Ok.. I’ve taken my pill… I’m fine now.
The blind leading the blinded!!!
Wow for something that has taken 18 months to implement that’s a hell of a lot of shoddy planning right there. At some points Krider makes it sound like he’s just the spokesperson and the real strings and ‘meat’ of the operation are fleshed out by unseen people.
Just a heads up the call goes for 94 minutes. I had it on while doing some stuff on the couch and I fell asleep twice (!) so if you can’t sleep… well this might be the ticket.
@Queensland Grandmother
Here we go again. This is seriously ingenuous. First it’s everything is a pyramid, next nothing is. The name “pyramid SCHEME” is applied to a particular type of business, such as Liberty League. The fact that the chain of command, or even a pile of sand, has a similar shape is a big fat red herring.
@don’t believe
The sad part here is that you now know that what you are doing is illegal (not to mention unethical) but it seems you will persist until you face court for fraud. I wonder if you will wake up even then, or try to rationalise it as some sort of conspiracy by mediocre minds, or will you finally realise you have been duped into being cannon-fodder?
I was looking into the whole work from home thing and came across the success beyond freedom thing on line. I have been communicating with Scott Fisher who is claming to be a Platinum Founding Member & Director – Polaris Media Group. (I guess first one to join and make money off others). I have asked a few questions and have received rather evasive answers. I did ask how do I earn the money and what am I selling, I haven’t received a full answer for that yet! It’s all rather deceitful; I have no intention to try pushing this on any of my friend, does that mean I will not make any money??? And what’s with the phone calls?
All I can say is I’m just really thankful that I have been doing my research and come across this before I joined anything! The concept seems rather cult like.
It seems the new Polaris Media Group’s income disclaimer is identical to the Liberty League’s income disclaimer for 2008.
http://www.polarismediagroup.com/default/pdf/incomeDisclosures.pdf
Amazing, considering PMG didn’t exist a week ago!
People please do some research before making verbal fools of yourselves. Polaris is the next evolution of LL and a fantastic opportunity for everyone to better themselves with “Personal Development”. By striving toward self improvement the whole world will benefit. The majority of people are scared…of what? they do not know. The attitude of kill it first then ask questions is a huge human fault. Polaris has evolved to eliminate fear and make people think for themselves instead of being sheeple. Wake up and THINK…you’ll be better off.
Please post some non Tony Rush links that you would recommend for researching PolarisMediaGroup.
Hey Colin, welcome to BehindMLM!
As for the rest…….
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…….
I’ll send one of the others to deal with your comments directly. I can’t stop laughing long enough to do it justice….
Bahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahhaa!
Umm. Yes, that’s why we’re here. The length and depth of research against PMG/LLI is of a significant magnitude more than whatever trollop PMG comes up with. Fake, circlejerking positive thinking isn’t the same thing as running any form of bricks and mortal business.
And the reason it had to evolve was to dodge the extensive lawsuits chasing it, either from government or consumers.
It’s not our fault PMG still doesn’t have any real products until late 2010. So you’re selling a year on promises.. exactly like a pyramid scam.
Umm, since you’re speaking up, doesn’t that you’re violating the gag order issued in conjuction with Wilkinson PR ?
The only fear here is within PMG. They had to outlay extra costs to get black hat SEO spammers in order to rescue PMG on Google (and failed), they had to outlay for Wilkinson, and they’ve had to outlay to ship Shane Krider over here to keep the peons in line and paying up the funds to ensure “credibility” in Australia.
After all, the only reason for a National Australian EMC tour is to try and stem the bloodflow from the mortal wound that is PMG/LLI busted as a scam.
I guess you missed this part on the Corporate website (last Q&A)
https://www.libertyleague.com/admin/start_dates_and_website_launch_dates.pdf
Mr Rush is going to be very dissapointed with you.
Please tell me what is illegal. You can join Polaris and make money on the products without buying any. No sales are passed up ever. Polaris is NOT a pyramid scheme. However Life Path is I believe… Hmmm. I see you are all still silent on that point, yet you allow the ads to run OZ. The transformation from LLI to PMG has been nearly 2 years in planning. That doesn’t sound like running scared to me. Life Path was started by LLI defecters with a copy cat program, now they are running scared. When are you going to truthfully expose what is really going on here? Who are you trying to help, honestly?
I’d like to see some evidence of this unsubstantiated claim. Everyone here should know, there is no substance to this claim and this smear campaign should be stopped immediately untill someone can provide some concrete proof. This site should be shut down, but not before a very public appology to all those who may have been adversly affected at the very least.
@Simon
The first part of your paragraph makes no sense to me.
The ad content has been explained elsewhere, bike topics get bike ads, goldfish topics get fish ads and so on. But I don’t see them anyway because I have them turned off on my computer.
The second part contains an interesting prespective into how LLI is splitting up, LifePath on one side, Polaris on another; old school, new school. But it’s a distinction without a difference.
As far as I am concerned they are all children of the LLI scam and now tarred with the same DoFT brush until shown otherwise.
There is also still the little matter of illegal operation *prior* to 9/9/09 approx. The operators of these new operations can’t simply abandon this baggage no matter how positively they think.
What is going on here is an OPEN forum where ALL views are being represented. If you are used to a (cough) more heavily moderated forum this may come as a bit of a shock.
My personal aim here is to warn those who can’t afford to lose a wad of money that many others have already done so (WHATEVER the reason) in the LLI scheme. Currently it looks like 85% of Associates end up $25-50k poorer from their involvement with LLI.
I can’t speak for @foolish one, nor what they have learned directly from DoFT, but it’s perfectly consistant with the DoFT presser,
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/About_us/News_and_events/Media_releases/2009_media_releases/20090904_pyramid_schemes_alert.html
[quote]
and is being monitored for any evidence that it is active in NSW.
“Ultimately it is for a court to determine if Liberty League is a pyramid selling scheme,” Ms Judge said.
[/quote]
LLI has already been *determined* to be a Pyramid Scheme by the DoFT (that why the presser in the first place) and is being *monitored* for activity in NSW, clearly with a view to testing that determination in *Court*.
There is some old saying about not singing like a bird when you are up to your neck in manure.
LLI, or any other entity, has the right to take legal action against this site to have it closed, or extract a public retraction and apology. But you at least have to have a case first.
I have seen for myself messages on MLM sites dismissing the DoFT, utterly failing to see the significance of attracting the unfavorable attention of the Government regulator, even appealing to US rulings that have no weight at all here. Not real bright.
At least you didn’t delete my comments this time. So much for an open forum. If you don’t like what you hear you don’t let anyone else like it. Here’s a spin, we all know you will write a worst case senario on the compensation plan. Why don’t you see if you can do an alternate article with the outcome of all the good points. At least then you would be giving yourself some credability. 20% on the first sale, 40% after that. Up to 60% profit depending on how much you sell.
Yeah, like mine 🙂 which was true, but useless nonetheless.
The fact is, Simon, we have the facts and figures. 85% of Polaris Media Group associates average around $13,000. Not only is that BELOW the minimum wage, it doesn’t take into account the money spent building their “home business”.
Therefore, 85% of you who claim this is the best business ever are full of crap. In fact, I’d even say that’s closer too 100%, as I imagine the top earners wouldn’t bother posting here.
So, who are we trying to help you ask? Anyone who wants to learn. These are the figures, and we’re sharing them, whether you want to hear it or not.
Go for your life Simon.
Tell us the good points.
Explain to the rest of us how PolarisMediaGroup works. Tell us how much you make and how much you spend. Lets hear the costs involved.
Explain the compensation plan to us and how one would go about making money without purchasing anything.
Also could you explain the Doft ruling or are you of the belief that the NSW government are associated with your opposition?
While you’re at it, you might explain your take on the massive lawsuits in the US against LibertyLeague/PolarisMedia and maybe we can all get a more positive feel for your ‘new’ company.
Oh yes, and before you’re done..
You might explain to us how people who have followed your simple system to a tee, ‘invested’ tens of thousands of dollars into the belief that they would be mentored in their business by ‘leaders’, have put their heart and soul into it and …
have just about lost everything?
How can your ‘mentoring’ leaders allow this to happen?
Explain the advice you would give in this situation. Is it the standard “attend a conference and your business will take off”? or “Put your mortgage on hold for a year”?
…have Polaris come up with something new for that one?
Go for your life Simon.
I’m yet to do a writeup on the compensation plan, but from what I understand Polaris distributors need to either purchase a product themselves or make a sale.
If distributors make a sale to qualify, the commission is then passed to their upline as they aren’t qualified for the product until after the first sale.
So you either buy the product yourself to qualify for it, or make a sale and pass your commission to your upline.
I’m happy to be corrected on these points but as far as I know that’s how it works.
Really? You want me to apologise to all the people who were financially ruined because of Liberty League’s pyramid scheme structure?
Good luck with that one.
The only time I’ll delete feedback is if it contributes nothing to the discussion, usually these are just insults rather then tackling the arguments.
To claim this isn’t a relatively open discussion is a bit rich, there’s plenty of comments from both sides.
The reason I don’t do this is because Polaris already flood the net with press releases, google searches, twitter and facebook with all the supposed greatness of the company.
The information here is highlight the not so great side of Polaris without the financial pressure to join and allow prospects and the general public to ask questions and be informed.
I note you didn’t correct my assertion on the passing up of products and having to purchase products yourself to qualify. I’m glad you agree that to suceed in Polaris you need to pass up profits or make purchases which was the point I was making.
And as for you and others asking why he doesn’t discuss Lifepath, get over it. This is BehindMLM, not simon.com. He’ll talk about whatever he wants… you do have the option on not reading it you know.
If you want a blog entry about Lifepath, go create your own website and talk about it all you want.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU. I just got off one of these ‘CALLS’ and had to do some research for myself. Thank you for making this information available. I have been checking out a lot of these home businesses and they all are the same. I am just grateful that I can find out the real deal from those looking out for others! Can I post this article on Facebook?
No worried Mindy glad to help.
You can certainly post the article to facebook. If you’re posting the text I’d only ask that you link back here, cheers.
Hi guys,
I have been reading all your comments for about 2 weeks now, and thank god you’re here. I feel so lost about what is happening with LLI and Polaris…i don’t know who to turn to. I can’t believe what’s happening and most of all i can’t believe that my so-called Leader/Advisor is not answering my questions nor replying when i asked for my investment back. Yeah right, i know, keep dreaming.
I am so mad at myself for trusting the “system”; i feel that i am waking up from a brain-washing session. Do you know if anyone has started a legal action towards LLI?
Why dont you have a look at every business model, governments,military etc which are all pyramid schemes as you call it. You just dont have the b…lls to admit to yourselves that your “jobs” keep you in denial and away from what you could have. Especially the Oz editor and followers or whoever is leading this BS. What about christianity?? isnt that the biggest pyramid scheme on the planet? How do they get away with recruiting people into the church and then get them to part with their hard earned cash week in and week out….AND DO YOU SEE ANY PRODUCT CHANGING HANDS? Perhaps you should cry to the ACCC about that. I suggest you grow up, get the facts and leave business in the hands of business minded people and not mere bored EMPLOYEES!!
With businesses, you make money by selling products. With Polaris, you make money by selling the business/franchises to others, i.e. a pyramid scheme.
I think it’s a scam too, but they get away with it because it’s a religion, therefore making it legal. God needs your money. Never enough money money money!
…why? First of all the military or government aren’t even a business to begin with and regardless, you sign up to serve or are employed based on an agreed salary which is legally bound to a contract.
You don’t join reputable business’, the government or the military on the promise of imaginary riches backed by an 85% failure rate.
Are you suggesting Polaris Media Group is some kind of religion?
Once again, by deflecting the questions and facts revolving around Polaris’ questionable compensation model you’re not disproving or even challenging the fact that it’s not sustainable in the long term.
I just read this forum top to bottom. I’m commenting not to enter the debate, as I don’t land strongly on either pole, but to share my experience.
I’m a month into being a Polaris distributor. I bought the launch package of personal development curriculum in order to activate myself to earn commissions and to know the product I was representing.
I must say, that I was skeptical about whether it was worth the price, but now I can say first hand, that it is a remarkable product and has really changed the quality of my life for the better–this is priceless. It was worth every penny, it’s not like any other personal development product, and I would never have tried it if I wasn’t motivated by making money, so I’m grateful that Polaris has done me this service that some may see as a scam or trick–if I was tricked, I was also blessed by it.
I wish everyone could know for themselves the effect of this product–whether they pay for it or not–because it truly is transforming. I don’t have as many great things to say about the business side. I think I would be more fulfilled if I was representing a business of my own creation, which I’ve started to do as a result of using the motivational products and being part of a community of entrepreneurs which has given me an entrepreneurial mindset–again, Polaris really has improved my life for the better on many levels.
If I make no money here, I will never feel like I lost any because I’ve gotten something very valuable for my investment, regardless. As for selling a business opportunity and lifestyle to people, well, I want to make money and have the ‘dream’ be real, but while Polaris is not technically MLM, this element makes it feel that way.
It’s true that enrolling others and building a team who buys and sells the products really is the only way to make big money here (though there is no pyramid structure) unless you can successfully retail the curriculum products that are expensive and hard to describe because the result is so PERSONAL and not tangible. And I don’t think anybody would buy a Polaris conference (the real commission maker) unless they were a distributor and invested in being part of the community.
I believe in the Polaris vision and I know that positive media and personal development is something I want to stand for and have a hand in promoting because that undeniably IS an inspiring a positive influence on the world. I just wish I could “help” with this in a different format, frankly.
Still, I am enjoying the whole experience and the community here is amazing–nothing like what you sense on the Business Overview Calls. I hate those!–another reason why I’m not a huge fan of the business here. Good/bad–there’s both in every situation. That’s why there can be a debate about this–and anything else.
its a shame Coco , those seminars are way overpriced , but that’s how the big money comes into it , so whats the cost again ???? for these seminars $13 grand a pop for the main one
@ bob
You need some new material mate… been through this allready on this blog.
@ coco.
Enjoy the BF if its something that benefits you… but say no when the pressure comes on to purchase the conference tickets… give it time and the pressure will be applied… just give it time!
From memory it’s 18 grand AUD now for the major one, 13 is the 3 day I think?
Hi Coco,
I also loved the Beyond Freedom. It changed my whole outlook on life.
My worry is that the new Beyond Freedom Evolution is written by Scientologists.
The orginal Beyond Freedom was not solely written by them. The company is full of deceit and
I am extremely concerned by the existing company.
I wish you all the best
I am going to go out on a limb here..
The Beyond Freedom was great for me…
BUT
I think it was a heady mix of alot of things, and not the product. If I listen to it now, all I hear are testemonials from people…and a journal that in reality, you can do yourself with any other self help book.
I think for me, the feeling of complete freedom( financial and personal) was amazing.
And THAT was why I thought Beyond Freedom was the bees knees.
Unfortunately, I have now come out of the haze a few thousand dollars lighter.
@coco … I agree with Martin, if it is working for you -great. But just be very wary of the ways in which they will coerce you into buying a conference ticket. They will make you feel left out if you dont, tell you you are not “stepping up”, ignore you and give attention to others who buy their tickets.
I am sure you are smart enough to do this, but as you can imagine, seeing many people lose alot of money, I want to warn you as much as I can.
All the best.
I too have found a lot of value in the Beyond Freedom product, and also attended one of the extremely overpriced LLI conferences. Whilst the speakers and content were excellent, the 5 day conference consisted of a welcome dinner on day 1, 4 hours on days 2 and 3, a “free” day on day 4, and 4 hours and a farewell dinner on day 5. I felt short changed, and when I queried this at the conference, I was told that Shane Krider, in his infinite wisdom, was giving us time to connect with others and share our insights! Great – but he is charging me for that???
I was also very surprised to note that out of the 1000 or so attendees, 85% were from Aus/NZ – the new kids on the block.
Obviously not going so well in the US then.
I didnt attend the recent Puerto Rico 3 day event, but was told that the format was very similar, welcome, 3 speakers, and goodbye. So why the big difference in price? So I can have a “free” day for an extra $5000?
Be careful Coco – its easy to get hooked in by the positive community all having so much fun and changing the world etc etc, but the links to Scientology are evident and undeniable, and although I have raised the question several times I have had no response.
I encourage people to beware. Polaris is very deceptive about their real agenda which they call ‘Personal Development’. I recommend googling the word Polaris, Northstar and Evolution and see for yourself the link to scientology. The inner circle of leadership are scientologists which is why people are resigning in droves. Also google Polaris Media Group Scientology. Its obvious that they are not trying to hide the fact that the company is run by scientologists when they call themself Polaris.
I have no problem with any religion inlcuding scientology but when you call a business opportunity Personal Development and it is really a religion then that is wrong wrong wrong! Very deceptive.
Hi, i’ve been doing some research into Polaris as I responded to a Seek Commercial ad about businesses for sale.
I was due to attend an instructional due dilligence tele-conference this evening but thankfully missed it. Decided to do some research online and found this forum and a few other sites which outlined exactly what this business is – scamming vulnerable people who want to change their lives.
The ad i responded to was from Mindset Movers and you don’t find out until you make the call or put in an enquiry that they have anything to do with Polaris, or really what the personal development products are that they’re trying to sell.
Thanks for all your comments explaining exactly what these low-lifes are all about.
I understand that all the people who’ve commented on this portal are skeptical but.. life is about making money, isn’t it?
If you can make money and lots of it by doing this than why not? Make the effort to go out there and make some money.
Some people are just to scared and stuck in their comfort zones and some are just plain lazy. Get over it and find something else to whinge about!
I know people, like you and I in this business who are lovely and are living like kings. What does that tell you.
@lisa
> life is about making money, isn’t it?
Oh you poor, poor child. No. Life is about *contentment*. Money is only useful so far as it serves that end. You are confusing the map with the territory.
> If you can make money and lots of it by doing this than why not?
1. it appears that you have about a 1 in 10 chance of making a lot money, and about a 9 in 10 chance of making a huge debt, losing your home, marrage, &c.
2. it’s unethical and illegal. Even armed hold up is more ethical than fraud.
> Make the effort to go out there and make some money.
I have, honestly and ethically, and retired early to watch birds on my country estate.
> Some people are just to scared and stuck in their comfort zones and some are just plain lazy. Get over it and find something else to whinge about!
> I know people, like you and I in this business who are lovely and are living like kings. What does that tell you.
What it tells us is that you can read the LLI/PMG script – same old same old.
Life is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I’ve generally found those that solely focus on the pursuit of money tend to be lacking something other people less narrowly focused on have.
I make enough to live comfortably and I’m happy with that. I’d certainly never entertain the idea of ripping off other people to advance my bottom line.
That they bought better hiking boots then the rest of us to climb those pyramids faster?
Every industry is a pyramid, there is a boss up the top, the big boss makes all the money and the little fellows follow behind cleaning up the mess and not getting any respect or gratitude and paid little money in comparison to what the big boss gets.
With Polaris there is the potential to make big $$ for EVERYONE who joins. What you put in is what you get out, in every business.
I can understand that we are each entitled to our opinions and we all have our own ideas. But I think that Polaris is great, there is a lot of negativity (Including war in the world, recession, crime and media which reflects on all of us. And Polaris and their products help us to be positive and give us that motivation to keep us going through life.
A boss in your every day job doesn’t do that you don’t even feel like going to work. Not all of us are content with our lives or ourselves. And yes, it isn’t just about the money it is about choices, some will some wont!
And an armed holdup is not ethical AT ALL!!! what is ethical about holding a gun to someone’s head and threatening them? Everyone at Polaris has a choice – no once is forced into it or told they have to stay and spend money. But if you commit to buying any other business for say $350,000k and it goes belly up – you could lose your house – life is about choices.
Some of us make good choices and some of us don’t, we are all different as individuals we are each suited to different things what we decide to do with our lives should not be up to other people in the community to judge and Criticize.
Correction, Lisa. Every industry is not a pyramid. Yes we are programmed to work for the man, but the man will pay a sum for our labor.
Your “pyramid” hypes so called great products and outcome and asks for a large investment to participate. Your claims are that if you work hard enough, and follow a prescribed system you will succeed.
The truth is: it is not about hard work, it about convincing yourself along with those you scam in, that if you are greedy enough you can get others to believe the lie.
“Personal Development”??? No, it is all about the money and giving up honesty to get that 1 greedy colleague out of the 10 you bring in, 9 of which will not have the heart to scam others. You have no real and useful product.
If you were really interested in personal development and higher integrity behavior, you would not be a part of Polaris. The personal development ‘Industry” is proving itself to be the antithesis of just that. You are assisting others to gamble their money and likely lose it because you have convinced them there is really something to Polaris.
There are many better and real books, cd’s and teachers that you can access for a fraction of the money if it is really personal betterment you are seeking.
If you want to make money and that is your primary focus, get into insurance, financial products or another opportunity that is more honest about the design for prosperity. Do not fool yourselves into thinking that you can make money by twisting time tested philosophy and new interpretations of age old wisdom for profit. It is contradictory.
Many of us are posting here to keep others from getting caught up in something that turned out to be a lie. With the best information, a person can make a better choice.
Please don’t compare Polaris Media Group to everything else out there. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: with a business you generally make money by selling “products”. With Polaris Media Group, you make money by selling the “business” to other people, who then make money by doing the same, and so on… aka a pyramid scheme.
I’ve just been channel surfing and ended up watching the Australian Christian Channel on Foxtel for a few minutes. A kiwi guy called Brian Houston was literally bouncing around a stage doing an imitation of Shane Krider. The whole brainwashing technique seems to be alive and well and inhabiting a citadel in Sydney’s west. Apparently Brian and his wife are pastors of a very profitable operation, which allows them to have the lifestyle others dream about. Acreage and mansion on the outskirts of town, plus another beachside pad for the weekends plus business class airfares to “conferences” around the world. Sound familiar???
Of course I Googled Brian, and apparently he preaches “prosperity theology” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Theology There’s a bit of a dynasty going on (Kim Il Sung style). Brian’s daddy Frank (later defrocked for messing around with young boys) founded the business and now Brian’s 3 kids are helping run the show. Makes the whole Liberty League / Polaris circus look like a bunch of amateurs.
L.Ron Hubbard once said “You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
Praise the lord, I think I’ve cracked it.
Are you still keeping tabs on Polaris Media Group? I came across your site after noticing that dozens of schemes being promoted on Linkedin had pages with a common theme, none disclosing anything about the products and their costs, yet a few mentioned the Polaris Media Group.
How did you get the details and do you know if they are still current? Has anyone asked the NSW or any other state’s Department of Fair Trading to declare Polaris Media Group to be a pyramid scheme?
Hey Stephen, I certainly have but I’ve since moved discussion about Polaris over to BehindMLM.
As far as I know the Polaris Global compensation plan hasn’t changed significantly since I reviewed it, but admittedly I haven’t looked at it in a long time.
Their business model has remained relatively unchanged though. Sell people on personal development dvd course + get them to enrol and go to expensive conferences is pretty much the gist of it.
Despite the obvious nature of the business, I believe technically with a self help course product and the current compensation plan they are legal.