Life after Polaris Media Group – Where are you now?
News filtered down through the grapevine this week that Polaris Media Group CEO Shane Krider and Rachel Oliver, one of the few older EMC members left in the company, were now romantically involved.
Whilst this in itself isn’t such a big deal it did get me thinking and slightly curious as to what the rest of the original EMC were now up to.
Having not looked into the Polaris Media Group world for a while now, I decided to spend an evening researching what some of the old EMC members were up to.
Tony Rush
Tony Rush was arguably one of the most well known EMC members of Polaris Media Group. He was often cited as the ‘mouthpiece’ of the company and charged with policing the internet and countering any negative information published.
Late last year he quit Polaris Media Group with fellow EMC members Gene Braxton and Shannon and John Lavenia.
Shortly afterwards it was announced that the four of them were forming an MLM training company, Northstar Connect. I have no idea how successful or non successful this venture has been but it’s apparently not been successful enough to provide a full time income.
Recently Rush announced his involvement in the Numis Network. From the brief research I’ve conducted into this company, they are in the business of selling numismatic collectible coins.
The problem with mass marketing collectibles via MLM is that the more people that own something, the more it’s collectible value drops.
Then there’s the fact that people seem to be selling the same coins on eBay Numis are offering it’s distributors but for cheaper. This begs the question as to whether the Numis Network opportunity is about the coin products themselves, or simply about remarketing the business opportunity to new prospects.
Tony Rush is currently flogging the Numis Network business opportunity on his website, rather then the companies retail products themselves.
I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from that.
As an interesting aside, in Rush’s marketing spiel for Numis he mentions that some of the people visiting his page might have
had the rug jerked out from underneat of you by a company whose owners might not have been as ethical as you’d hoped.
I couldn’t help but wonder if this was a not-so-subtle parting shot at Krider and Polaris Media Group.
John and Shannon Lavenia
The Lavenias seem to have gone a bit quiet following the launch of the Northstar Connect system.
John Lavenia last held a conference in Melbourne Australia in December. Tickets started off at $700 and something US, then dropped to $297 and then a week or so before the event dropped to $0.
That’s not a typo, the tickets were given away for nothing.
Following this event I don’t really know what the Lavenia’s have been up to. A software platform they seem pretty heavily involved in, Marketing Pro Plus, seems to have been launched, relaunched or updated recently.
The Lavenias have been pimping it out and seem to have made a new promotional video for it.
The Marketing Pro Plus website is ‘powered by Unified Wealth Solutions’ which I believe is owned by the Lavenias.
Marketing Pro Plus is also being advertised via Twitter by Tony Rush so I’m not sure if it’s got something to do with Northstar Connect or is just the Lavenia’s work.
Gene Braxton
Gene seems to be the only one out of the ex EMC members who has not left a trial of wanton destruction splattered all over the internet.
I’ll be completely honest and admit that I’ve got no idea what Braxton is up to these days. Unless a reader is able to shed some light on what Braxton has moved onto post Polaris Media Group, your guess is as good as mine.
2009 saw the peak and fall of Polaris Media Group and it wasn’t without it’s fair share of casualties.
Some of the people who profited off these casualties appear to be getting ready to do it all over again under a different banner.
Some seem to be diversifying their marketing portfolio trading on the names they’ve made for themselves over the last few years. Others still appear to have disappeared completely and gone underground.
During the height of discussion on Polaris Media Group on OzSoapbox we had a fair share of pro-Polaris commenters and those who were against it.
Of note were the number of pro-Polaris who were openly involved in the company as distributors. With reports of only 30 people rocking up to Polaris’ latest event, one can only wonder where all these people have gone.
What are they up to now and how have they moved on?
Now that the dust has somewhat settled I’d love to hear from some of the more staunch supporters of Polaris Media Group. Those that stood by the company until the bitter end.
What happened and where are you now?
This post isn’t about pointing fingers or naming and shaming or ‘I told you so!’ type replies. The top earners stories post-Polaris are relatively easy to piece together but there hasn’t really been a platform for all the smaller stories out there.
I’m aware this post might not work but I really would like to hear from people as they’ve moved on from Polaris.
Share your story, be heard.
What a Joke PMG has become . In October we were all in Puerto Rico and now in March the arse has fell out of it all.
Puerto Rico where Rachel Oliver was smoozing with Michelle Krider while she was screwing her husband. Shane Krider has no integrity and PMG is a big joke I hope him and Rachel the home recker are happy together and when PMG goes down they will too.
Karma is a bitch.
P.S. Hey krider I want my money back that you still have .
still got some buddies on Facebook, pushing the cause.
That last seminar, they made out was a good crowd on the gold coast , does anyone know?
I wanted to send him a few comments re this site , but don’t now how it would go down. He makes these posts like ” gee another day today sitting by the pool , check a few emails , then spend time with the kids etc etc etc , this is a great business etc etc ” he’s obviously trying to plant the seed.
I have no idea how he’s going …… but seeling overpriced seminars , seems like and probably is a giant con to me
I know that Simon Haggard is still promoting it.
Being “randomly” called out on conference calls.
I have no idea how much money he is (or is not) earning, but I imagine it’s less than the 100k/150k/270k earned last year(figures he has quoted for the one year and tripped himself up with lying).
As for myself, I am now earning a very good income with a REGULAR JOB (shock horror) that I enjoy.
And as we know, Krider and Oliver have now publicly announced that they are sleeping together. yawn.
As for Braxton, I do remember getting an email from Rush a while ago, quoting a letter from Braxton and promoting some forgettable piece of rubbish.
I will forward it to you Oz.
Their silence speaks volumes. I’m hearing that there’s been another wave of defectors after Shane’s announcement regarding his personal relationship with Rachel. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you realize all the naysayers were right and that all your well-intentioned defenses were foolishly naive.
For all you ex-LLI/PMG-ers hung up on a class action lawsuit you’re wasting your time and energy. There’s simply not enough potential settlement money for an attorney to take on the case pro bono.
That’s why most class action lawsuits are against pharmaceutical companies, car manufacturers and tobacco companies. They have deep pockets and the attorneys know their fees and cut of the settlement could net them millions.
A class action lawsuit is a calculated risk. The reward has to be significant enough for an attorney to be willing to take the risk. PMG just isn’t a big enough player.
But if you have unauthorized credit card charges contest them with your credit card company or your bank! If you have documentation from your LLI/PMG advisor promising you certain results if you bought conference tickets, remind them of their promises to you and offer to settle the issue in small claims court (or the Aussie equivalent). And if you can’t/don’t get your money back take from this experience what you can.
Who knows, maybe the lessons you learned here will serve you well in the future. Not all network marketers and direct sales companies are bad. But this one was/is.
MLM may not be the path for you or for me, but at least we found that out and can now move on with our life doing what it is we were meant to do. This is what I have learned.
Don’t be cynical, but if it looks like sh*t, smells like sh*t, and tastes like sh*t, it’s probably sh*t. My very own BS detector finally works!
My dad was an avid coin collector for many years. If someone is really serious about coin collecting, go to your local coin store and buy something.
My dad got a lot of his coins from auctions. The value goes up and down. We sold one coin he brought back in 92 that he paid $780 for $4200 a few years ago.
Wonder how long this biz will last? I did read about Shane and Rachel. I do know a few people still involved with PMG, but never really say how they are doing.
I was involved in LL for 6 months back at the end of 2008 and even then I struggled to make a sale due to bad press in the media. Most of my smart leads did their research and Google got in the way everytime.
My leader wanted me to, go “full boat” as usual, but I wanted to make sales on the BF before I committed more money. I am not bitter at the experience but am amazed at the unfolding of events and how such a company with people I admired has come undone.
After marketing hard for 6 months and spending lots of money I folded. I initially followed some other leaders to Lifepath and did their program for a month but was not inspired by the energy of that business and felt like it was just LL in different clothes.
My lesson has been to trust my instincts and I am grateful I did pull out when I did. The other gem I have walked away with is learning to practice discernment when picking mentors.
I am now less likely to put people on a pedestal and in turn my own self belief has risen. If these people can make a substanstial income while being so self serving then a genuine value aligned business will be supported in much bigger ways.
I am still yet to find my new focus but like any experience I believe that LL was a necessary learning ground for me to go through to reach more understanding and to prepare me for what is to come.
Gene Braxton, John and Shannon Lavenia, and Tony Rush are all involved in Marketing Pro Plus. They are close friends and Scientologists.
They lost their contract with Polaris Media Group after their Northstar Connect system bombed. It didn’t do anything that it was promised to do. Marketing Pro Plus looks like a redesign of that system.
I believe that most of the AU EMC members are still involved with Polaris Media Group: Simon and Nyssa Haggard, Lynn McFarlane-Smith, Bettina Evert, Yonika and Paul Mantel, etc. I’ve heard that like Rachel they’ve all joined the ranks of Scientology.
Americans Michael and Arni Berry are still involved, and joined the ranks of Scientology too. And what’s with Arni? Is she drunk ALL the time?
Suzanne and Roger Curwin from the UK/Spain left after Shane admitted to cheating on his wife with Rachel Oliver.
Former EMC member and convicted felon Wendy Stevens is now part of Lifepath Unlimited. Convicted of fraud and forgery, no less: http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tcca/PDF/023/stevensw.pdf
A lot of former EMC members joined Lifepath Unlimited, run by Joe Neid, real last name is Niedospial. He claims that he was CEO of Liberty League International, but he posted this testimonial where he listed himself as COO (small but telling difference): http://www.scottsdalecomputerrepairservice.com/testimonials.html
His history of integrity includes GPG, he was one of the corporate officers for this company where most leaders were busted for tax evasion. I heard he was able to skate by turning on his friends and coworkers and providing info to the authorities, in exchange for immunity.
Joe Neid also recently left his wife for his executive assistant.
Lifepath is hosting an event in Sydney this weekend. Don’t get suckered.
I just wanted to say be careful about what you post – crack Scientology investigator Steven Drabin is monitoring these blogs. I’ve heard that some PMG distributors were sued to keep them from speaking out.
And you guys have heard of knowforyourself.com? Where so many people ordered th Know for Yourself DVDs and got those cheesy rings? Well, “know yourself” is a Scientology term. Your PMGers are being “safepointed.”
You gradually accept more and more about Scientology without knowing it, then Rachel or Shane or one of the EMC will ask you to be audited and you’ll say yes because you admire them. Next thing you know you’re holding onto tin cans and blathering you’re life’s story to a complete stranger.
Don’t want to join the church after that? Well you just gave them some leverage, didn’t you?
Thanks for sharing your story LPC. There seems to be a lot of people that have gone through LLI/Polaris and despite losing money feel theyv’e come out the other end better off as a person. Ironically due to the fact that they feel they lost so much money.
I can’t help but wonder if this is some sort of perpetual inside joke within the ‘personal development’ industry when they say they help people.
That is very funny Oz! They certainly did help me! In a way I realised I had my sails pointed in the wrong direction and my focus was off course. When I ‘failed’ I had to do some serious re-thinking about my motivations and values. Failing is not always a bad thing.
@I wonder … been reading through the older posts and saw how you were brave and admitted you had been scammed.
I must say, I have SO MUCH ADMIRATION for you after you had the balls to come back and come clean. That’s what helping others is REALLY about, even if you have to eat some humble pie.
I hope the future has a lot of wonderful things in store for you.
Yes a true and ironic quote.
Somehow I feel that network marketing is the first step in financial education for novices. It was a lesson I had to learn and signed up 2 years ago today. (March forth on March 4th I thought and was excited about it). Really believed that the “leaders” knew something that I did not.
After the Bahamas, a Summit conference I felt I really had to attend to “know for myself”, I realized those “leaders” were actors and quite confused themselves. Fast forward to today and I am at peace with all of it.
Lost thousands in $$ and more in time, but so glad now I did not get anybody else involved. Life is sweeter with this lesson learned and things are starting to really look up again financially as I work on what are my real gifts and talents.
The financial loss I am working on, but I never allowed the deception to really own me. Network marketing may be of some value long term, but the products must have value. My experience has taught me about sharks, wanna bees and overvalued products.
Warren Buffet taught me that “Those who won’t fill your pockets will fill your ears”. Grateful for that advice now that I learned it the hard way….do not believe in “failure”. Its just about learning if you are willing to face up.
Joe is dead right is his assessment of the impact of $cientology on the people involved in LLI/PMG. The whole aim of $cientology is to grab as much money as it can, and it tries to do this by sneaking under your natural defensive radar until, like a parasitic worm, it has it’s victim hooked and squirming.
$cientology’s greatest weapon is fear. Fear is created in the victim because during the “auditing” sessions one usually gives up one’s most intimate and personal secrets to the auditor.
These are all recorded and as in the case of Edward McBride, shipped to the U.S. for possible use against you later.
Anybody considering involvement with PMG should be keenly aware how dangerous an organisation $cientology is.
I cant beleive Rachel oliver is shagging Shane Krider. Now everyone can see that she had more than money as an incentive to scam Australian Associates. I think he gave her a little extra on the side to be so damn positive.
What kind of example in personal development is this?
I tell you I am doing a lot better than Rachel Oliver and her whole entourage of puppets who call themselves leadership since leaving.
I beleive in Karma intentionally. Rachel, Lynn, Bettina, Shane the whole lot of you make me laugh. What a pack of wannabe religious leaders.
I feel so sorry for Michelle Krider and for all who trusted EMC.
Hey Oz, so weird considering I’m reading up about all of this MLM scam stuff … just got an e-mail from the ATO warning against online scams in general! (It is a legit warning, my address is registered because I use e-tax).
Must be a lot of scammers out there pretending to be ATO agents and phishing for people’s details.
Can forward it to you if you like, you have my e-mail address.
Tam
Hey Tam,
Sounds like the ATO are getting in early before the end of the tax year. Most people should be aware of internet scams but I guess old people and the technologically incompetant need to be made aware too.
Check out this site where an ex PMGer has gone http://www.soarlikeaneagle.com.au/ – they are sprouting the same crap as the other biz, but this one ‘apparently’ educates you on health, wealth and personal development. It’s pretty much the same layout as LL.
These people I know for a FACT live in a crappy run down house, they are living up to their eyeballs on credit cards – What a joke!!
They do manage to suck gullible people in with their promises and guarantees though, but nothing comes of it. They leave these people once they have banked their money! They are putting every single cent they scam off people back into their marketing.
They should be on the list of scamming conartists too!!!
Yep, know it for a fact! Somebody I know got an email and told me about it! And what lifestyle? They don’t have one! They are living a lie and one day will be caught out for sure! Karma’s a bitch!
Uh you sure the Lashins left Polaris?
I remember watching their cheesy videos linked off the Whirlpool forums last year. If they have moved on it begs the question why they’re still using Rachel Oliver’esque quotes and promoting their lifestyle from when they were in LLI/PMG.
I admit I don’t know a lot about Scientology, but if this is what it’s all about and people like Rachel Oliver are its proponents, I am definitely running in the other direction.
I studied at uni for four years and have a few years postgrad experience in working with people and there is soooo much to learn.
It is worrying that people who really don’t have a clue can do ‘therapy’ or whatever the hell they think they’re doing with peoples’ lives. I find it alarming they have the arrogance to interfere and propose to know the answers.
Life is one big journey of learning and as demonstrated above, wow LLI/PMG is a helluva learning curve! I wish I never had to go through it, but have come out the other side a stronger person and also successful in alot more ways than I would have been had I been brainwashed.
Seems the people who ‘failed’ like me and a lot of the people on here are the people who think for themselves and have strong values and identities. We have still been able to draw meaning and positives from what at the time was a soul destroying experience.
Good thread Oz – thanks!
I’m running, too. I actually had a good time for a couple of years but the proverbial s**t has hit the fan and the company is a shadow of what it once was. Not even making Rachel Oliver a partner saved the Influence Event in Macau… if anything her energy took away from the event.
Not what I expected at all. Terrible waste of money. I spoke with an EMC member who felt the same way.
Yip, Tony Rush & Gene Braxton are in some marketing thing together. Here’s a copy of an email I received today:
Last week’s live “role-play” call was a HUGE success.
As promised — Tony Rush and Gene Braxton
are back on Tuesday to offer you another opportunity to
hone your prospecting skills!
It doesn’t matter if you’re in Dubli, TVI, Polaris Media Group,
Trump Network, Numis Network, Monavie, etc….
….it’s still all about creating conversations with your prospects
that cause them to WANT to know more about you and your
business.
So, if you’re not enrolling as many people as you want in
your busines….this call is for you!
NOTE: this is an INTERACTIVE call. You’ll be invited to
play the role of a prospect…OR Tony & Gene will be the
“prospect” and you can “call” them. This will give you a
GREAT opportunity to get personal coaching on your
prospecting!
TUESDAY NIGHT (Wednesday morning for Australia/NewZealand)
PHONE: 1-712-432-3100
PIN: 729187
TIME: 5pm EST (New York Time)
Also, the PowerProspecting video will be taken down this
week. If you haven’t watched it, click here to get that info now
before it’s gone:
Click Here To Watch The Video Before It’s Taken Offline
See you on the call!
To your IMMEDIATE success,
Gene Braxton and Tony Rush
ALSO, the Lashins are now in Wealth Masters International along with the Smarts.
@J
Yeah from the emails I’ve had forwarded to me it seems Rush is primarily promoting Numis whilst Braxton works on the marketing side of stuff behind the scenes.
Not sure of the extent of the business relationship of these two but it’s clear they’re working together. I kind of find it hilarious that they do prospect training using themselves as prospects or marketers. It’s not like they’re gunna be biased and blindly agree to anything you say right?
if a person is focused on illness then they are inadvertently attracting more illness to them. On the other hand, if a person focuses more on health than illness, then the law of attraction must obey and produce health.
The principles of the law of attraction are a powerful tool to summon the healing power within us, and can be used as an aid in total harmony with all of the wonderful medical procedures that are available today.
Remember that if there were no healing power within us, nothing could be healed
What a total load of claptrap. If this is true how do you explain leukemia in young children or diabetes in the mentally handicapped? Susan, I’m afraid you display a complete ignorance of basic science akin to those who think that homeopathy can possibly cure you of any illness.
Welcome back Susan,
If the “law of attraction” is so powerful, explain why you failed with Liberty League? Did you not attract the right people into the business, did you not attract wealth and prosperity? did you not visualize the people you wanted in your team then the telephone magically ringing???
No they aren’t.
You can’t will illness onto yourself, what an absolute load of crap.
Who is this law of attraction person, some magical being with genie powers that must obey the will of people? If I’m dying of inoperable cancer no amount of donations to Scientology, reading Polaris self help books or focusing on health is going to cure me.
Until we have a cure for it, I’m dead.
The body has this thing called the immune system. When it or another part of the body is compromised it gets to work trying to fix us. It’s got nothing to do with made up “powerful” laws or feelgood “i’ll touch yours if you’ll touch mine” circle jerk off sessions.
By your reasoning being asleep, in an induced coma or under anesthetic would result in the complete breakdown of one’s biological repair system.
Nyssa Haggard has returned to her previous job so it appears they finally need to earn some real money to pay off the life-that-you-deserve credit.
They still have their websites up and inspirational bull shit but must have decided that a least one of them needs to bring in some cash. I guess that will be the end of the highly entertaining movies…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8To3WPI93g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FndpCfCsRgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heS30yVC_OQ&feature=related
Wow more success stories, does that mean they’ve resigned or are they still will Polaris?
Argh camera shake!
They can still produce the videos, they might just have to be a bit more realistic about them.
‘Do you want a six figure income that will allow you to go shopping, travel the world and buy all the luxuries you deserve? Well then get a real job, like I had to.
Make it a great 2010!’
cheers guys for making it easy for people like me who was actually considering of becoming part of PMG to have the opportunity of going in another direction
John and Shannon Lavenia are starting some new MLM thing Oz – no one can find out bout it without signing a non disclosure document .. geeez must be good to be so ‘secret’ !
Grab a coffee Oz. New job for you.
Have you seen Gene Braxton’s latest website? http://www.TheTopEarner.com .
go to ten seconds into the video.
Quote — “For nearly a decade I’ve shown thousands of people all over the world how to earn huge incomes from home.”
Gene is in Numis. Along with Tony Rush.
Their claims seem to slightly overinflated.
Perhaps the Numis Network is a category worthy of air time over on BehindMLM.com .
Here’s the video you’ll receive when you opt-into Gene’s website:
http://www.thebest7minutes.com/movie.html
Some of my favorite quotes:
“The most powerful network marketing plan in HISTORY” – Tony Rush
“Guys, I’m not exaggerating.” – Tony Rush
“A single mother on welfare can find a way to get started.” – Tony Rush
Is this the representation of Numis that the founders had in mind?
I’ve been aware of the Numis network for a while now. I’ll get around to having a look at them in good time.
The Top Earner domain is pointed at ‘thebest7minutes’ site which is currently down. Not sure if it’s a technical problem or if its been pulled.
I was with PMG for 6 months and sadly I was one of the ones believed the dream and lost a lot of hard earned money. Thank GOD I didn’t borrow money or apply for loans to pay for the “products” like some people did.
It took me a long time to write something here, Oz, because they said you were the “negative” guy don’t listen to you! It took me a lot of courage to admit to myself that I had been stupid and You are the good guy!
My wake-up call came from the most recent “big event”.
Influence life in Macau March was an absolute biggest joke in my life! Before the event, they had all topguns from USA,Canada,UK,Australia came onto the call to promote how good the event was and everybody should be there. I was SO looking forward to meeting these “leaders”!
When we got there, only the Aussie EMC and one from Canada were there! I was SO disappointed and it made me wonder what was going on here. And unfortunately we all got “brain washed”, we were all saying amongest ourselves “just concentrate on the ones that are here, don’t worry about the ones not!”
The most funny thing was, at least 80% of people attended were aussies! I was thinking,Gee, it was expensive for all of us Aussies flying half way the world to meet each other!
But, thank God finally my basic instint tells me something is not right here. My last draw comes in early April,when I got an email from my second upline promoting something bigger than facebook calls “yournitelife”? I think. Sounds just like MLM, you join and invite your friends to join etc etc.
Then my direct upline who was the top 10 income earner last year with PMG, rang up promoting the same thing! Then I said oh, so and so has already invited me. My upline was so angry with her upline! I could smell blood!
So that was it for me! It’s like waking up to a dream. Once awake, I could see everything was a LIE, beautiful lie! How I didn’t see it’s a pure scam was beyond me! I cut my losses and cried my heart out blamed myself. It was the worse time in my life!
I have learned a lot. Unfortunately, I didn’t listen to ” if it sounds too good to be true, it is!” advice and learned a very big and hard lesson!
I felt so much better the day I decided to leave PMG. I don’t have to hide anymore! When someone asked me what I do for a living, I don’t have to “hmm, ahhh, it’s a personal development business”! I am going back to a JOB, which I can proudly tell my family and friends!
I am glad I didn’t sign up anyone in this! I couldn’t have been able to sleep peacefully at night if I had! Now I know why I failed dispite following “all the systems” including “full boat”, was because I just don’t have “be, do have” or “fake it until you make it” quality!
Thank you for reading this however I am not looking for sympathy as I don’t deserve one. I just want to unburden myself the final time and now I am finally ready to move on.
Thanks for sharing your story ‘Finally…’ Insights from ‘the other side’ always make for interesting reading.
You only get a glimpse of this sort of stuff from the outside. When people ask me how I can write about things without experiencing them firsthand it’s experiences like yours I point to go and say ‘that’s a pretty good reason why!’
Thanks for all the info. I was rang 2 days ago and was considering joining.
I thought I would do some personal research off the Polaris site and came across BehindMLM.
After reading all this info, there is no way I will be joining and when the person rings me back I will be directing her to this site in case she is really unaware of what is going on. Thanks again for saving my money.
Oh, my GOD, I thought I am finally free from Polaris, today came an email from ” Melinda Spence” on behalf of “Brent Payne”, thought I post it here before I hit the “delete” button! It just proved that I have made the right choice to leave!!
“I am contacting you on behalf of Brent Payne. You were formerly associated with Liberty League and we want to make you aware of a very special opportunity. Brent has just launched a new company called Avant. Our mission is to provide practical and inspiring educational products and a fulfilling income opportunity.
Right now we are in Pre-Launch ~ you can get started in Avant and be fully qualified at all three product levels from day one for only $29.95! No product purchase is required. This means as soon as we launch you will be in position to earn the full retail profit of $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000 on our three products.
In addition, as part of being a Lead Associate for Avant, if and when you do decide to purchase our products, you will only pay the wholesale cost saving you thousands of dollars. There is also a powerful residual income component to the compensation plan. With Avant, you will be able to earn the significant upfront profits while building a substantial residual income. Unlike Liberty League, there are no pass up sales so you will be able to make money right away! Plus our signature product Elevate carries a 100% money back guarantee (refunded from the company, not your commissions.)
I invite you to go to http://www.weareavant.com/melindaspence. Spend some time going through the website, product information and videos, enjoy the video under about/awareness to see where this company is going, we are not just a Personal Development company, we are also an Awareness company. Be sure to watch the two compensation videos in the Income Opportunity section which give a detailed overview on the many ways to earn an income here.
To hear Brent describe the Pre-Launch Opportunity, click here:
http://www.weareavant.com/mediafiles/audio/calls/avant_boc.mp3
Our official Launch date is set. We are launching at 12am Eastern time USA (2pm Australian EST) on this coming Monday, May 31. The Pre-Launch window is closing fast! Be sure to let everyone know that they need to be enrolled as an Associate by this time on Monday in order to take advantage of the Pre-Launch Opportunity. “
Just one More thing!!!!
I got involved when it was LL. Soon changed to Polaris and I never got the link to Scientology……Silly I know.
Only ever went to one event in Barcelona and it was magic!!… but I could smell a rat eveywhere.
My point is this… The prouct is as good as anything on the market.
It can change lives… as it has mine.
I was fortunate enough not to “go full boat”.
I feel there is an ethical way to distribute “similar” products or even “better” products.
Discuss………
Just one more thing…
OZ..try and keep neutral… it’s your thing.
Sometimes you just…….drift away…..
Chair the conversations…..
Just a question on Brent Payne’s new company “Avant”, does anyone know the REAL story on why he cut ties with Shane Krider and co. before the changeover to PMG?
My understanding is he didn’t take to their Scientology beliefs and where they wanted to take the business. I know the LL compensation plan was far more effective for distributors than PMG which is a plus for his new venture as they aren’t too dissimilar.
So, does anyone actually have the real story on what happened between Brent & Shane prior to PMG? I mean, we never saw Brent at any PMG events, even as a guest did we?
And does anyone have a reliable source/weblink to back this up? I personally think Brent’s intentions have always been good whereas I can’t say the same for Shane and co.
In a recent Avant back office call Payne stated that he ‘sold his company in early 2009‘, no reason was given though.
There’s a lot of speculation and rumour out there on why but as far as I know Brent Payne himself has never publicly given a reason.
Watch out for the snakes in the grass Georgie.
I am sad to say that I was one of the LLI’ers. Joined LLI in 2007. My husband kept saying that something was not right from the beginning and went ahead as I was completely brain washed. I SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO MY HUSBAND.
Got a loan for $30,000 went full boat after a year, spent all our savings on marketing and leads. Anyway, when I went to Rome in 2008 for my first conference, I was let down BIG time. I was thinking “Man, this information was not life transforming, useful or applicable and it certainly was not worth $14,000, Plane ticket, and hotel room”.
I did not qualify for the two big ticket items while my advisor was one of the EMC’s. Common, if he was making five figures, don’t you think I would have qualified within a month and would have made my money back? Yeah right I ended passing two liberties and two summits. So I was disheartened, and began to feel that maybe 97% was not making the money they said they were making as I was still not qualified even after a year.
When I came back – myself and another LLI’er whom I met in Rome started talking and I raised my concerns and she said the same, so we decided to call it quits.
I have to say thanks to LLI as it raised my curiosity about internet marketing that I went back to school to get my masters in it. I am so much happier as I have my own e-commerce store and love working for myself.
I did not give up on my dream of working for myself, anywhere, anytime. LLI was not the avenue for it. I sell my own products, keep the 100% of the profit and spend a lot less money than I did with LLI and make a lot more than I did with LLI.
To this day I regret my loss, but thankfully we are not broke.
I made something out of my failure.
ONE MORE THING: You want to learn personal development like Bob Proctor and Tony Robbins just get a certification from NLP. It is a lot cheaper than these conferences and hey may be you can get paid to go and speak in this conferences. It will only cost about what 5k or so. You will hold the master keys to success. Just a thought.
to add to the above comment. Last year I checked I still was not qualified as liberty adviser nor summit adviser and did not attend the Liberty Conference and never got a refund either. They said I cannot get a refund.
wow what sad, sad stories….you really are on your soap boxes and have victim mentalities.
Take responsibility for your lives always…it’s not for every one!!
Have a great life guys!!
I just just join Polaris, I am scare, I use my Husband’s Visa card. US2800.00. What do I do now?
Please help…………….
Stella.
Hi Stella, if you’re really worried, first port of call would be calling your credit card company up. They’re the ones that authorise payment on your behalf.
It’s really not rocket science people! Success ain’t for everyone. If you aren’t going to ‘put it out there’ in anything you do in life you will not create the great results you want. PMG would not have the backing of so many outstanding athletes and celebrities if it were a scam, seriously?? Yes it has won 2 international telly awards for recent documentaries.
This is not a pyramid scheme, have a good look around you, most people work in pyramid schemes everyday of their lives but we do not call it a pyramid (CEO at the top) because we have been programmed to believe it isn’t and it is sanctioned by those who want to keep you stuck in the humdrum 9 to 5 buzz earning sweet FA and those at the top of the pyramid are the ones makin the most mulah!
WAKE UP! The only way to go is to get out and try another way. This is a legit business and any network marketer worth his salt will tell you it is never about the product or the service you are offering, it is always about YOU and the belief YOU have in yourself to achieve great things in your life. Most people are too damn lazy and do not want to do the work required. They want a quick rich and a quick fix scheme. The only reason people fail at anything is because they give up, period!
If you do what’s easy life will be hard, if you do what’s hard life will be easy!!
Advice for Stella, what a great start NOT! Personal development is about learning to have integrity and being transparent….’how you do anything is how you do everything.’ Using you husband’s visa without his knowledge is real DUMB, it’s theft and you should stop payment through Polaris you have 10 days to do so. I would not want someone like you in my team, you do not have what it takes to be a leader going by your dishonest actions…it’s a no brainer, seriously!
@Maggi0
Uh, are any of them actual distributors backing Polaris or have they just been in the documentaries? There’s a difference between committing yourself to a company and starring in a documentary a company foots the bill for.
Not that I agree working a ‘normal’ job is a pyramid scheme (and this has been discussed ad nasuem on here as it’s the first thing new MLM members sprout off, particularly those from Polaris), but how is replacing one pyramid scheme with a CEO at the top with another featuring the CEO of the MLM company at the top any better?
If I get a regular job I’m guaranteed a paycheck, none of thise 1-3% success rate nonsense.
Good points Oz.
Oz,
I gotta say a big thankyou to for these threads about LLI/PMG you really did help alot of people. I was once a LLI’er and a PMG’er but not to a great extent thankfully, i did lose a couple grand on advertising, etc.. but I did learn a huge lesson. If its too good to be true, people, it probably is. I could never ethically sell any of LLI/PMG to anyone because I myself questioned the integrity of it all.
I then quit the system (gee they make it hard to quit) and had to fight to get some money back from the months they still had me subscribed when i TOLD them via email I quit. Im fairly sure I did get some money back which was good.
I recently recieved an email from Tony Rush about some stupid product he was trying to hack to people. I think replied to him advising him to stop selling people “Bullsh*t”. Well I can tell you he wasn’t entirely happy with my email and we had a few emails back and forth, with him saying that (in so many words) im a failure and go ahead and live my mediocre life lol.
Sounds like I touched a nerve with old Tony? If you dont cave to their bullcr*p they get offended it would seem lol :O Poor Tony. Poor LLI/PMG…hahaha. Oh Also, I had Rachel Oliver as my “leader” and I can tell you, one of the most condesending, self involved, unhelpful people I could of ever come accross – and I wondered to myself “If this Banshee Woman is up here, whos running hell?” (Thankyou Van Wilder for you wise words).
There were so many warning signs from the start, I wish I was wiser, but i NOW am. Thankyou again OZ, you really made people wake up to it all.
Kind regards,
Ad C
No worries Ad, hope things are now on the up and up for you.
I have found all of this absolutely riveting reading and want to thankyou all for sharing – I just wish I had read this before I joined early this year and saved myself the money and the time and the anguish of feeling like I was not committed, or believing or visualising enough !!
Fortunately I couldn’t drum up the cash for the ‘full boat’ thankgoodness – but did get to meet Rachel & Shane – and Simon & a couple of Leannes (not sure which ones….) who all welcomed me with open arms but made me feel very guilty about not “committing” to the full product line!!
Do you know that on their training calls when they call prospects – people are listening in to that poor unexpected person and then we are told how to and what not to say – they say don’t mention the name of the company on the first call as they don’t want people to find out anything before hand – how much belief is that in the company you work for??
Fortunately I kept my real JOB (which I nearly quit) and didn’t borrow the money to go full boat – which is what Rachel will tell you at every opportunity that she did in the beginning.
Lastly – as I know this a bit long, but this is very difficult to do if you want to keep a real JOB and fit this in around it – unless of course you don’t sleep, don’t interact with your family, live on the phone so no-one else in the house can use it and generally give up doing all the other stuff you need to do to keep a family & household functioning. a couple of hours a day – phffff rubbish!
Of course now Rachel & Shane are pregnant so that will really up the anti now.
and lastly… I didn’t actually think my life was That bad beforehand ..
Thanks for sharing your story 9-5.
This doesn’t really surprise me. In public Polaris (and other MLMs) claim that the reason for this is to ascertain whether or not prospects are right for the business. In reality they are trying to guage whether or not the prospect is likely to believe their claims vs. their own independent research after the company name is revealed.
Polaris’ Sovereignty Live conference is due to kick off soon and it will definitely be interesting to see what the turn out is like.
Dear 9-5 worker.. This email will probably be blocked because I’m Rachels’ mother. I know, at every opportunity Rachel would tell you & everyone to borrow money to go full boat because your money fills her coffers.
Don’t interact with your family, live on the phone so no-one else in the house can use it and generally give up doing all the other stuff you need to do to keep a family & household functioning! That’s been Rachels’ attitude from her early teens. She was a Drama Queen as a toddler, and has matured into the Queen of Con Artists.
9 to 5 – thanks for sharing.
I went through a similar experience with LLI, but unfortunately had gone full boat. Worst decision of my life, but a helluva learning experience.
Anyway, all behind me now. I have an amazing life, a partner who is my best friend and an awesome man and a great family. We have legitimate investments in property which we have built up through good old fashioned hard work. I can sleep at night knowing my income comes through honest means.
When it comes to borrowing money to buy into a business like that, that is the worst advice someone could ever give. When you say Rachel borrowed the money herself and she has said that time and time again, remember, that money would have come from her partner at the time – Tony. The man she raved about when she was in LLI and funnily enough, dumped pretty quickly when she became a ‘self made millionaire’.
I would have it a guess that Tony was also paying for her Brisbane River apartment while she was struggling with her Herbalife business.
And again, she soared to success in LLI by poaching people from Herbalife. Something which newbies could never have done.
In my opinion, you can’t call yourself a ‘self made millionaire’ when your fortune has actually been made by taking advantage of others and treating people like dirt along the way. A ‘selfish made millionaire maybe’?
The real entrepreneurs, the ones I have respect for in our society, are those that gain their wealth in a legitimate and legal way and then pay it forward and help others.
If you hear someone calling their own self an entrepreneur, the alarm bells should start ringing there and then.
But I guess we’re all pretty familiar with the arrogance of LLI now PMG members. They are sooooooooo much better than us!!! Good luck to them. Looks like their -100 member events are really pumping.
Karma is a biatch.
I know someone that is currently still with Polaris Global.
This person paid over $11000 AUD for the 3day conference that they encouraged to put you in the positive frame of mind of success.
At the time, my friend borrowed the money against her home, lost her job when she fell seriously ill. He didn’t worry to much because she had joined LLI.
Finally when she qualified after making her 2 qualifying sales and loosing the profits to her person above, the company changes names and changes the rules where you dont have to qualify. So thats 2 sales she could of had.
She never made a profit and she put her heart, soul and whole believe in it. We all thought she was very obsessive to be honest.
Now after 2 years, she is still serious ill, and never attended her 3day $11000 AUD trip. She always contacted the company advising she could not go as flying in her condition was life threatening and which fine with the company.
Recently, she was in a devastating position where she could not afford her medications she needed, was about to have the bank re posses her house and she could not work due to her condition and was not making any profit in Polaris and was incurring monthly costs instead.
See asked if Polaris could re-fund her money for compassionate reasons as the Financial Stress made her condition worse.
Polaris Global, Denied her pleas. You would think they would help out one of there own wouldn’t you.
What sort of company kicks there own when they are already clearly as low as they can be.
SO I WOULD WELCOME advise from anyone.
Where can my friend go, to report Polaris and what they have done to her so she can get her loss back for her 3day course and 2 qualifying sales.
I know that this will her for her medical expenses and keep a roof over her head.
NOW besides the initial joining and monthly fees, the company is making all their people pay an annual renewal fee of $89.95USD.
MY FRIEND WHO BARELY KEEPS UP TO DATE WITH EXISTING MONTHLY COSTS, NOW HAS TO PAY THIS ANNUAL FEE.
It just gets worse the longer she stays with them and she has been hopeful that one day her business will boom.
She has been with them since 2008, you would think she would have given up by now.
Thanks for listening.
A Concerned Friend.
Hi concerned friend,
thanks for sharing your story, it can’t be easy watching it all unfold from the sidelines.
Personally I think your friend is going to have to come to the realisation that the business clearly isn’t working for them on their own. People choose to get into network marketing and ultimately it’s got to be their own decision to decide when to stop.
Having other people suggest or tell them what to do removes the onus of personal responsibility from their subsequent actions and the last thing you want is to be blamed for their lack or apparent lack of success.
I don’t think Polaris are entirely to blame for your friends circumstances. She’s clearly got some hope that the system will provide her with a solid income yet and I think that until she’s broken that mentality, pursuing any actions that paint Polaris in a negative view aren’t really feasible on her behalf.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do but I think this is one you’re going to have to sit out from the sidelines.
Tony Rush and Michael Hamburger were busted trying to rip down comments about the Pyramid Operation called Liberty League International which had to change its name to Polaris Media after getting shut down in Australia
Rush and Stevens were pushing EXTREME LEADS (as in EXTREMELY crappy) which was part of the three “companies” that LLI owned and operated via Glanville and his partner in crime Lavenia ..
They are nothing but low life scammers and funny to see Stevens on the rush with her lies of leaving Trump to write a book … hell … anyone know if she has ever read one?
Also been contacted by that parasite Melinda Spence re Avant or whatever it is involving Brent Payne – she also contacted me prior to this latest ‘venture’ with another golden idea involving selling time at resorts or something.
I have reported her to the ACCC and more people should do the same re the person who sucked them in and took their money whilst in Polaris or LLI or Polaris Media Group or Polaris Global or whatever they are calling themselves this month – BE WARNED – dont go near anything if it has hers or her mothers (Kaz) name attached to it – they are all PARASITES.
And MaggiO – wonder if you’ll have the balls to repost when you find yourself in the same position as the rest of us – Reality Check you extreme idealist with zero morality…. There is no winning or recovering from time spent in this company – the longer you stay, the more you lose – fullstop.
Sad thing is you have fallen for it all -hook, line and sinker. Your post below demonstrates why you are currently fitting in so well:
Advice for Stella, what a great start NOT! Personal development is about learning to have integrity and being transparent….’how you do anything is how you do everything.’
Using you husband’s visa without his knowledge is real DUMB, it’s theft and you should stop payment through Polaris you have 10 days to do so. I would not want someone like you in my team, you do not have what it takes to be a leader going by your dishonest actions…it’s a no brainer, seriously!”
Demonstrating your own integrity (I am so sick of that empty and meaningless word) by demeaning others – calling someone dumb and a thief and condemning them as not being fit for a role as a ‘leader’.
Yep MaggiO – you have the Polaris dialogue and modus operandi mastered – Suck them in with your bs and promises, take their money and then abuse them, belittle them and demean them – sounds a little SCIENTOLOGY to me….
Bit of advice MaggiO – You might wanna watch your back ..
Wow – Victoria – you are Rachels’ mum????? That must be terribly embarrassing for you…..
Good on you for posting to warn the rest of us. I have met Rachel firsthand on more than one occasion and seen her in action in PR and I have to say, she is truly the most artificial, cold, hollow person I have had the displeasure of meeting in years….not to mention her latest venture into covert affairs and home wrecking.
And all under the banner of INTEGRITY – it is maniacally COMICAL indeed.
You must wonder where the hell it all went so wrong – if I were her mum I would be seriously tempted to deed poll….
Rachel is out there wracking up enough karma to last a million lifetimes. And it seems Shane doesn’t mind planting the seed anywhere – pregnant hey – may be a longer term solution to bumping up dwindling Polaris numbers…..
Hi Little One,
Indeed I’m horrified by Rachels’ absence of honesty, integrity & immoral covert, home wrecking sagas. You’re so very correct, I do wonder “…where the hell it all went so wrong-“!
I reverted to my maiden name & decided to have no connection with the Oliver Clan many years ago.
Criticism from several, obviously Dr. Phil couch potato pseudo-analysts, that haven’t yet progressed to Judge Judy, did NOT appreciate my honesty.
In fact, I’ve given no examples of Rachels’ many cons/scams!
Ignorance is bliss to those who don’t believe in karma. What goes around eventually comes back to bite the deceivers 10 fold when they least expect it.
Thanks for your support Little One. Best wishes to you & yours, Victoria. X0
Thanks Victoria – nice to have an ally who is in the know first hand. Your darling daughter and her cronies left me over $30K lighter and nearly cost me my sanity. Thank God for supportive partners, as I don’t know if I would have coped otherwise.
I am still not finished with them….best of luck to you and yours also. x
Little One, So sorry you lost over $30K & verily grateful your support group assisted in maintaining your sanity.
My “darling daughter” lost all conscience at 15. Several specialists attempted to psychoanalyze her problems without success.
Her behaviours did send me off the deep-end. To regain my sanity I did a Social Science degree. Social Science incorporates psychology and sociology. I’m unable to print my findings – USA liable laws re: compensation – whether true or false are limitless – hope you get my drift.
The universe has mysterious ways of working: Keep positive: Pursue your goals with honesty and integrity in order to be compensated for your enormous financial loss: Don’t let time stop you from regaining what Rachel Oliver and her cronies took emotionally and financially from you.
Coincidence or Not: A light hearted piece of privy info:
Rachels’ paternal grandfather (A. J. Oliver – deceased)- always referred to me as “Little One”! Obviously we’ve a universal connection. Remember KARMA – stay focused. All the best to you and yours. X0
I really am alittle surprised at all these comments after everyone was envolved with personal development….But we all have a right to our own beliefs and oppinions.
Yes I joined LLI in 9-2009…yes I put money into the business..no I didn’t make any money…But I wasn’t promised that I would, like a few of you here were (if I understand you all correctly).
I will tell you what I did gain from the course….A belief in myself and what I can accomplish….That I am a good person and that it doesn’t matter if anyone else agrees. I believe all things happen for a reason…and I don’t look at it as an loss when it comes to the money….I look at it as an investment in myself.
Im sorry that so many of you had a negative result in being involed with the company. I choose to take the possitive results out of my experiences there.
No it didn’t pay the bills….the bill were like that before I joined, that did not change. But my out look on life and my happieness has changed for the better. So everything that I went thru was well worth it….
Hey KJ,
So sorry you refuse to believe that losing money promoted personal growth! You “don’t look at it as an loss when it comes to the money….I look at it as an investment in myself.”
Congratulations KJ, Relieved you’ve managed to turn a negative financial loss into personal gains.
Please spend your money more wisely in future.
Regards, Victoria
Sorry KJ, but these two assertions are self-contradictory:
and:
So you invested your money (presumably in order to increase your financial security) but you ended up effectively losing money. So somehow you see your obvious lack of financial acumen as a personal “accomplishment”?
Most people I’m sure would view increasing one’s money as an accomplishment, rather than losing it. I can see why LLI/Polaris exist when a fool and his money are so easily parted LOL.
Sorry Victoria…..I don’t look at my experiences with Liberty League as a negative because of what I recieved from the program……I got to see places and meet great people and learned alot in the process! 🙂
Sorry ausGeoff….I did not go into the business to just make money…..I was very interested in their Personal Development Program. So this is one of many reason I don’t take my experiences with Liberty league as a loss.
I would agree with your comment about fools, if I did not recieve anything in return for the money I spent. Both my Husband and I did recieve alot…We will always remember the places and people that we met on our trips and we also learned a great deal from our time spent with Liberty League!
Keri,
You must have made a decent amount of money to have made alot of friends.
My friend who did not make anything but a loss in money was ignored at the one event she attended. All the big money makers stuck together and dis regarded the no money makers like they did not exist.
Funny have people are blind to seeing what really is.
Hey Keri…
I understand and that’s cool. But… unfortunately most people go into these programs simply to make money, and, as you’ve acknowledged, one doesn’t necessarily make any money at all. And because of that, these sorts of programs are still a trap for the unwary.
And at least you took something positive away from the program, whereas there’s a gazillion stories illustrating quite the opposite for many, many people. (As you’ll see if you Google LL.)
My wife gambled it all and LOST it all.
Winner of a rising star award.
What good was that?
Liberty League, Polaris Media Group, and now Avant…
How is it that BRETT PAYNE, WENDY STEVENS, TONY RUSH, MIKE HAMBURGER and the rest keep getting away with economic murder?
Good question…
One of the reasons is because of lax policing by government authorities in countries such as Australia. Such as our ACCC, AFP, ASIC and all the other acronym soup entities that should—but aren’t—doing their jobs properly.
Time and again the Paynes and the Hamburgers (LOL) of this world slip under their radar, and go on to become millionaires… Google ‘Alan Bond’ or ‘Geoffrey Edelsten’ or ‘Rene Rivkin’ for example of convicted criminals with 9-figure bank balances.
Ned Kelly had nothing on these guys!
Spot on ausGeoff,
Ned Kelly had a relative Robin Hood conscience, compared to PAYNE, STEVENS, RUSH, KRIDER, & Rachel OLIVER (my daughter).
Convicted criminals with 9-figure bank balances Bond, Edelsten & Rivkin didn’t have access to the new-age WWW capabilities. When authorities get too close these scam companies change NAMES & GLOBAL BORDERS.
Though painful, being a woman of compassion, integrity & morals, I chose to cut correspondence with Rachel many years ago. Rachel was a sweet, loving child: She became a monster when all denied her drug taking started @ 15 years.
My attempts to help by engaging three Psychologists & a Teen Psychiatrist consultations until she turned 19 failed.
During these 4 years I completed a degree in Social Science attempting to understand where I’d failed as a parent. Again, another stalemate.
To regain my sanity I did a Social Science degree. Social Science incorporates psychology and sociology. I’m unable to print my findings – USA liable laws re: compensation – whether true or false are limitless – hope you get my drift.
Despite achieving high distinctions in my Bachelor of Social Science University Degree, I am still unable to make sense of Rachel’s abilities to RIP-OFF people who dream of financial security.
Rachel is a bad seed: I’m truly sorry for all ‘economically murdered’ by Rachel Oliver.
Shane Krider & Rachel Oliver now live in Mazatlan MEXICO.
Their daughter LEIA looks angelic (as was Rachel): visit http://www.racheloliver.me/ for updated info if interested
or Email: (Ozedit: email removed) to question her.
Kindly note Rachel is self-centered: Both web site & email addresses are ‘me’: directed to ‘me’: which supports a self important personality.
Rachel’s very disappointed mother again apologises to all who lost money by her acclaimed “self made millionaire” STATUS.
Rachel sold too many hard working dreamers an impossible dream. She never involved family members or personal long-term friends in her dream to make them potential millionaires (see previous interviews).
Information, prior to joining Liberty League Rachel was employed by HERBAL LIFE (Please check). She recruited most HERBAL LIFE team members to join her new found path to wealth – LIBERTY LEAGUE. Her claim to fame with LIBERTY LEAGUE came without any personal expense, if my information is correct.
Most honestly, I believe above information is accurate.
Victoria Vance
Hi
I joined polaris global. I actually didn’t join to make lots of money I joined as I believed I could do with some personal development and learn how to run a business on line.
With in a short period of listening to the morning training calls I felt that something wasn’t right. It was always the same people talking about their success.They also use to go on about how people weren’t committed enough or working hard enough >or not committing to the whole package.
I had manged to recruit some people and was finding it hard as they were not having any success. I had a lady interested but rang me back and informed me about liberty league. I rang Belinda Byfield and she totally lied to me and said it wasn’t true.
I also found that she came across all sweet and innocent But she isn’t she was rude to me and when I pulled the plug because I couldn’t keep going knowing that people will not make money. She totally ignored me and never replied.
Has any one else dealt with her? She is very successful in Polaris and obviously doesn’t care about recruiting people knowing that most of them will not make money and loose a lot.
Belinda along with Pauline O’Halloran and the Wheelers seem to be the ruthless core of what is left of Polaris.
They will do just about anything to get your money. They seem to take their inspiration from Rachel Oliver/Krider’s relentless pursuit of the dollar at any cost.