If the EMC can’t sell Polaris, how can distributors?
By now the news of John and Shannon Lavenia, Tony Rush and Gene Braxton leaving Polaris has well and truly broken and anyone in Polaris Media Group should be aware of it.
Some people have suggested that this might be a simply re-branding ploy or an attempt to distance themselves from the Scientology link that has now plagued the Polaris Media Group business name.
After sleeping on it and going over what has been written I’m taking another approach. I do believe Lavenia, Rush and Braxton have left Polaris but it’s not because they’re rebranding another seperate direct financial opportunity.
It’s because indirectly they’re admitting the pyramid scheme business model that should be visible to anyone with half a clue is ultimately unsustainable.
Let’s have a look at the last few months of Liberty League/Polaris Media Group.
First back in May the NSW office of Fair Trading concluded their investigation into Liberty League and stated they’d received legal advice that LLI’s business model was indeed a pyramid scheme.
Within a few weeks it was then announced that Liberty League would be changing it’s name to Polaris Media Group, complete with a “new” business model.
Due to the rush to beat news of the NSW DoFT announcement going public, Polaris was hastily launched without any of new retail products.
Unfortunately for them, due to what I believe was an unintentional leak I was able to obtain a written copy of the May investigation and went public with it. This happened just days before Polaris was launched.
In just two short months of Polaris Media Group we’ve seen mass resignations of management and the a huge shadow of doubt cast over the degree that Scientology beliefs are being represented in Polaris’ products.
New distributors have also been duped by income testimonials based on Polaris’ new business model which has not been proven.
The resignation of Braxton, Rush and the Lavenias tells me one thing: That they were unable to recreate the incomes they were enjoying under the pyramid scheme model of Liberty League.
At the end of the day if they were making money, why would they leave? This departure further strengthens ex-EMC member Elana Fraga’s comments.
Almost All Top earners (except those working in the main offices) are Gone.
I personally went from making a substantial income to close to zero income (well, $900 in 2 months working 80+ hours a week) helping everyone, without tools.
I got into financial uncertainty, just as most of you guys there.
I was recently asked that if all this was true, then how was the company still in business. My response was that I believed the reason the company was still trading because people were simply living off their previous Liberty League incomes.
Obviously this wasn’t sustainable in the long term and I believe sometime over the last week that dipping into their savings hit breaking point for Rush, the Lavenias and Braxton.
Of course this is something you won’t ever hear from them. Primarily because they are no doubt bound to confidentiality agreements and because of their future busines plans.
Having failed marketing Polaris’ products, instead the group are going to focus exclusively on the marketing backend. In a recent email to Polaris distributors the group stated:
Our resignation from Polaris Media Group to pursue our passions of training, speaking and educating, does not affect nor diminish our commitment to you.
It does extend our reach in the industry so that we can help more people advance towards their goals within the industry.
Under North Star Connect, Rush, the Lavenias and Braxton are hanging up their direct selling boots and instead focus on encouraging others to do it.
Nothing screams credibility then training others in marketing products and services you yourself have not been able to market successfully enough to stay in business.
North Star Connect will be available to all MLM marketers and I believe is a last ditch attempt to salvage the success UWS had being offered both to Liberty League associates and the wider MLM community.
A guaranteed monthly subscription from MLM marketers sounds a hell of a lot better then getting out there chasing leads every day.
The email communication also mentioned a new company name, NorthStar Global Marketing LLC, but I couldn’t find any information on it over at the Arizona state business records. This indicates to me that it’s a new company, although I’m not sure how if the online records are far behind in updating.
As per usual in the MLM industry it’s the people on the bottom end of the pyramid who are going to be the most vulnerable.
The people that have been hanging on hoping that big break is just around the corner are going to be the most vulnerable to this type of marketing.
To put it more simply imagine a football team that has lost every game for the past 2 years under the same coach and captain.
All of a sudden the coach and captain announce they are resigning and promote two existing team members to be the new captain and coach.
The now ex-captain and coach now tell the team that because the team has been so wildly successful they are going to take their teaching experience on the road and offer their services to other teams too.
Oh and they also want every existing team member to cough up a monthly subscription fee to hear the great coaching tips that led the team to such heights of success.
Look at the developments over recent months and ask yourself ‘how many ‘new’ top income earners has Polaris Media Group created?’
Not only should that tell you why Rush, Braxton and Lavenias left but also it should explain why they are refusing to directly marketing the products themselves.
Just received an email stating that Lisa Molina will be hosting some calls….subject?
“As the wind blows, my feet are firmly planted”
Ah yes, something blows, and it aint the wind. It’s PMG.
Hears an example of their integrity – they “terminated” beginging og last month – but have deducted 2 payment from my credit card for associate fees!!
@ also the truth
Can’t the bank reverse that?
sorry OZ – will post that on one of the other boards
LOL – any takers?
I’m afraid Vince is 100% correct
You only have to look at Rush’s youtube channel to see what a sleazy conman he is. The fake leery smile and holier than thou attitude are the typical hallmarks of someone who is trying to shaft you. These guys are middle aged now and know no other way than the scam way, to make a living.
Shannon Lavenia was pushing this alot recently http://www.marketezee.com It’s probably where they’ll park themselves ’till the storm clears. There are a few familiar faces in the members profile box!!
http://www.7figurealliance.com/ Some more familiar faces???
These guys will continue to scam until they’re dead or in jail, whether it’s PMG or something new. It’s the only thing they know how to do. Could you imagine them applying for a real job with their reputation plastered all over the net?
Google “tony rush” without pressing enter, and the first suggestion is “tony rush scam”. The same applies for Shannon Lavenia, Gene Braxton, Rachael Oliver, etc…
When Polaris is history (shouldn’t be long now), the next chapter will begin. But, I’m sure Oz will be right onto it when it happens.
oh noo i have already signed up with polaris media group, but i dont know how to unsubscribe i cant figure out how to do it. please guys if you know how just let me know straight away. i dont think i want to pay a bunch of scammers.
Tony is up to no good again!!! Below is from his website:
“After working fulltime from home for the last 14 years, I’ve never been more excited than I am now.
And here’s the funny thing: I don’t have a business opportunity to sell you. I’m not writing to tell you that you need to join a network marketing company.
This is just a simple letter from me to you: what I’m about to announce is the most exciting project I’ve ever been involved in. And I GUARANTEE it will make a huge difference in the amount of money you can earn by working in your own home-based business.
I’ll be announcing the details in a few weeks. If you’d like to be on the “Early Bird” list and get the details before the general public, fill out the form below to be added to my mailing list and I’ll make sure you get the FIRST LOOK at what’s coming.”
Can’t wait to see his next scam!!!
I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens then.
I still think they’re trying to go the marketing route and cut out having to promote products themselves.
Other then Lavenia’s talks I don’t see them producing and material to market.
Exactly Oz !!! Liberty League was a blatant pyramid scam !!! For all their lies about “INTEGRITY” and “POSITIVE THINKING” and “there only being 2 tiers so there is no way that it is a pyramid” and “even when you google Mother Theresa you will find people saying she was a scam” and “all your friends and family are just negative thinkers” …
I was in a hospital bed, recovering from a near fatal road accident when I was fed all this BS !!! Unfortunately, due dilligence phone calls to Fair Trading & ASIC & ACCC back then, which was only a few months ago uncovered nothing negative ???
It was when all the AMAZING changes from Liberty League to Polaris Media Group were announced which made me come out of my coma … While people were cheering and jumping for joy at the RIP OFF Gold Coast Event, I smelt a rat and lots of them !!!
Then after supposedly “18 months of planning” there were no new products ready and no compliance guide and only half a website and a lot of BS … They were just making it up as they went along to try and beat the Pyramid Scheme ruling which they had lied so hard to avoid !!!
I have found more truth and INTEGRITY on this site than I ever found in Liberty League or Polaris Media Group so thank you all so very much !!! The people who lied to me know exactly who they are and they can live with it til the day they die and they will go on to continue to lie and steal again and again !!!
Now the Scientology story is just the icing on the cake !!! The roller coaster ride I have had since my motorcycle accident has been so much wilder than the accident itself !!! Thank you all again for telling the truth and everyone everywhere BEWARE !!! A lot of professional BS artists are about to start looking for new scams !!!
At the end of the day, it will be the same grasping losers who sign up for these new scams that got sucked into the last lot of pyramid scams, Amway, Golden Sphere, Liberty League and the like.
As PT Barnum famously said, there is a sucker born every minute, and I think he was underestimating things.
Someone once said you can’t sell shit because no-one wants to buy it; well they MLM’s have given to the lie to that statement, they have been selling $19.95 paperbacks for $2000 and people are lining up.
Notice one of the featured videos on the page is “The Way to Happiness”… google this and you will find that The Way to Happiness Foundation is a scientology-related company. The 21 precepts the foundation promotes were written by L. Ron Hubbard.
Whatever the Lavenias do from here forward, one thing to remember… they’re still Scientologists. And whoever follows them, must be okay with that.
@ Matt – are you the guy in the “testimonials” attached to Lavenisa website – advertising his now free workshop inMebourne this month. ?
if you are – Id demand he remove it
Since I have uncovered the truth about Liberty League & Polaris Media Group they have cut me from all correspondence via their websites or facebook groups or otherwise so they better not be using me as their poster boy after feeding me so many lies ???
Oz if I can ??? I should point out to any of your international readers (and I hope that there are many as Polaris Media Group are now targeting Europe and Asia knowing that the US and Australia are on to them) that a BS artist as referred to in my original post is a bullshit artist or a con artist if that word is not appropriate although it certainly should be in this case !!!
youd better have a look – testimonials in the johnlavenialive.com site
well – they are screwed, the Sciti cult business front called Polaris Media Group, and I am happy to have helped. My veiw is that you cant trust any online business – there is no copability and it is just a breading ground for conartists.
I’ve enough – after 4 weeks of intensive blogging to help expose these scammers – now it time to get on with my life – BUT I will be helping the NZ authoraties with their enquiries – no need for any more anonomity – take care everyone ..
Just emailed to Robyn Ashleigh (who sucked me in to Liberty League) and John & Shannon Lavenia … “The following has been posted to as many scam websites as possible … I now hear that I am being used to promote some free seminar in Melbourne, probably to announce the next scam … I better be removed from everything immediately or I will take everybody down … I don’t think you realise who you have fucked with !!!” (followed by my original post as above)
I am demanding full refunds from Polaris Media Group for every cent which they took from me through lies and deception and I am happy to name all of the con artists and liars who stood up on stages or got on calls and lied about the money they made especially when it was renamed as Polaris Media Group and yet they still tried to mislead people with income statements from Liberty League which was a completely different compensation plan and really opened my eyes to their lies and I am more than happy to be a part of any class action and more than anything I wish to warn especially anyone in Europe or Asia who are now being targeted by this scam !!!
Good luck Roger and thanks for your dedication on this topic (that goes for everyone who’s contrbuted over the last few weeks/months).
Writing about Polaris has certainly kept me on my toes and over the recent week has nearly become a fulltime job in itself!
I have no idea what’s next for the company but I don’t really see their conferences happening next year at this stage. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Out of curiodity Matt what are you referring to when you say you will “take everybody down”?
Matt, you poor person. Obviously ANOTHER business adventure that hasn’t worked for you. I dare say that you will be hearing from a few lawyers shortly. Blatant defamation constitutes a $250K fine in this country, so good luck with that… but i am sure you don’t have the money so fat chance of anyone getting their money from you. Our records show that you were infact enrolled under another party within PMG other than my client above mentioned. Perhaps you should articulate the true facts and stop wasting everybody’s time on this forum. Additionally, testimonials given at events are an obvious wavering of rights on your behalf – from the footage it seems that you were extremely happy to be at the event and to be obtaining the information – what went wrong? From our records, it seems that you attended drama school and were an aspiring actor. Matt Towner, ex Showgirls Promoter, Ex Filth.com promoter, currently under prosecution for unconsentual intercourse with a minor male – named and shamed!
I am looking at Lifepath and Polaris and did look at Libery League earlier this year. Lifepath looks similar – is it or is it ridgy didge?
Uh oh!!! I think I have made a terrible mistake….
@ S Lashbrook
You are typical sciti… those sorts of threatening tactics dont work – go back and play with Xenu
to everyone else out there – if you are not convinced as to the depths that these scienologist will go to get there own way – or that in fact Polaris Media Group is in FACT a scienology front – the indesputable evidence is contained in the post above from S Lashbrook – somne idiot nohoper from the Church itself – Oz you should make good of this
What a crock of horseshit.
Wow, how very Scientology of you.
I hope everyone is paying attention to how you are treated once you leave the
So all of you had a gun put to your head and were told to join the company and pay the fees and go to the conferences. I see a ton of people not accepting their own adult personal responsibility (more like adult babies) crying, moaning, drama, etc. how they were taken. Claiming the product does not work -when several of you indicated they never opened the product. Live your own lives, accept responsibility and move on. Apparently OZ, you have nothing better to do with your time. The newspapers have to pay for what they say when they make inaccurate statements about people and companies and so should the 100’s of people like you who write statements about a company and people wherein you do not have all the facts.
Have you spoken directly to everyone in the company who actually is grateful for several reasons they joined or just one of those negative people who focuses on what is wrong, as opposed to using your positive energy talking about gratitude, love, kindness, beauty, etc.
How about writing a blog about Home Depot, Walmart, Biglots and obviously people would say online that those companies are scams too.
If you don’t like the company, your job, what you do for a living, go find something you do love and earn a living from that.
Who cares what their beliefs are, it is their belief and they have a right to it – Scientology or other beliefs.
Some of the people in the business have bad reputations due to the seed of a few bad apples.
There are plenty of great people who I have met who I still remain friends with and who have assisted me a great deal take hold of my personal responsibility.
Any fees that are due and charged without authorization, I do agree should be refunded. Keep persistent until you obtain the refund and then move on to what it is really want to do to earn income.
Best to all of you in your future endeavors.
@ Lashbrook – “enrolled under another party” – ? for anyone who doesnt know, the Liberty League system required an associate to pass up their first 2 sales to their advisor in order to become qualified. Of course Matt was enrolled under another party!! This clown’s post are just the ramblings of a shit scared delusional.
Forget what I wrote in the last post about having sympathy for you.
I honestly hope you stay with PMG for as long as possible, whilst the ship sinks.
Thankyou for publicly showing your true nature and objectives. Your integrity just took a MAJOR nosedive.
Wow again…just wow….
Oh dear…I think someone needs to explain Law and how it works to poor “S” …
Though I suspect, being a Scientologist and PMG’er they wouldn’t know what that was anyways..
Have you joined? Contact your advisor and demand a refund- asap.
Anyone know who Robyn Ashleigh’s advisor was?
Wow what lies from a pretend lawyer !!! Exactly Oz … I hope everyone is paying attention to how you are treated once you leave the (religion) company !!!
One of the major issues with $cientology is that they continually threaten ex members and I see that Polari$ is no different . There is a reason why they seek to delve into your innermost depths and I think the McBride family will be only too keenly aware of how the cult will do anything to stop you from trying to hinder their activities. I have had an interest in $cientology since my first nasty contact with the bastards in 1987, but little did I know that when I googled UXL after seeing the ad on Foxtel, that the slimy trail would lead back to them. Well done Oz for a job well done. I am sure that you have saved many people from a fate that could have been like Ed McBride’s.
“If there will be a long-term threat, you are to immediately evaluate and originate a black PR campaign to destroy the person’s repute and to discredit them so thoroughly that they will be ostracized.”
— L. Ron Hubbard, “Handling Hostile Contacts/Dead Agenting”
I read this on the following webpage. A direct quote from the Scientology leader (ex Science Fiction author also).
People reading this who are looking into Polaris Media Group- check out the link and Know For Yourself.
Hi Matt do you know who Robyn Ashleigh’s advisor was? The EMC member?
Oh dear…not another one with blinkers on…
Im sorry…what? lol- that is THE most vague bullshit (sorry Oz) comment I have heard in a while.
Care to enlighten us to “the facts”?
Care to enlighten us to the untruths on here?
All ears Coleen.
I, for one, have, and I will also enjoy making it extremely hard for you to rip people off.
How about you realise that these blogs will go on and on and on until PMG goies under, because you are all crooks?
Delwyn McKenzie is Robyn Ashleigh’s advisor … Does anyone have the name and contact details of the appropriate lawyer please ???
Just checked and there is no “Lashbrook” in the PMG online group.
The reason I asked Matt, is that I got from that post that the person was the advisor of Robyn, and not a lawyer.
Anyone else get that?
@Matt- I don’t know enough about it sorry, but Roly on here may, and there was another person trained in law….Oz, can you shed some light on who I am referring to? Cannot remember his name?
so you proposing the McKenzie is Lashbrook – yes she would be stupid enough 😉
Well….that’s just how it reads to me… lol…
She is stupid enough to dye her palms orange with fake tan trying to be like Rachel Oliver (her words), so yeah, she definately would be “stupid enough”
@ Matt – I would be contacting a lawyer locally asap if you haven’t already. Read the excerpt from a Scientology site I posted above.
They are evil mate- you need to put a stop to their games and soon.
and Racheal Oliver would have told her what to do as she threatened me with legal action a while back also.
If you read her post above she says-
“Our records show that you were infact enrolled under another party within PMG other than my client above mentioned.”
Could she be THAT stupid? To slip?
Rachel Oliver? Meh- she bores me to tears. And she needs a biscuit. LOL
Just a thought… If you wanna take on Scientology, one thing to do is air your own dirty laundry, and that way it leaves no material for them 🙂
I mean a solicitor for both the class action and now a defamation case as per their lies above please ???
I remember some time ago a mention of solicitors whom had already been contacted about a class action and would therefore know some of the lies being told and tricks being played ???
This last thread is one of the best things has happend on this forum to show what Polaris Media Group is really like. It shows their true colors and the power that this forum is having this is why they are so scared of this forum. It gives people a chance to here from otthers that the “business” has not worked for, not just the propaganda that they here on from the distributor and the phone calls.
What gives this forum so much power, believe it or not, its not OZ, its not all the awesome posts from everyone on here.
It is simply the fact that when people want to find out any information on Polaris Media group or Liberty League they come across this forum. How do they come across this forum? We all know this. They use the search engine that is responsible for 80% of the worlds online searches, Google. If this was some back water 30th page deep in a Polaris Media Group search on Google no one would care. Its the fact that anyone searching for any information on Polaris Media Group comes across this site in the top 5 (even higher) search results and can see all the real life information stated on here from people who have been involved with the company.
So how do we keep it up there? How do we give it more power to act as a beacon of information when some does a search for Polaris Media Group on the worlds most popular information gatherer?
Easy, two ways.
1 – When I want to come to this forum, I actually type in Polaris Media group in Google, and the link it throws up for this forum I click on. This tells Google that when someone does a search for Polaris Media Group, this is what they are looking for and Google will keep it very high in the results the more people do it.
2 – You will notice from all of my posts, that I always write “Polaris Media Group” the full wording when referring to them. This tells the Google spider that this web page has LOTS of information on on it about Polaris Media Group and when someone does a search for Polaris Media Group to throw this page up high in the search results as it has lots of information about the words searched.
THIS IS WHAT IS GIVING THIS FORUM TRUE POWER.
Keep it up people. May the force be with you 🙂 (xenu joke)
Excellant post Fred.
‘know yourself’ or ‘know for yourself’ would be a better Xenu link… appreciate the joke though!
@Matt… They’re full of crap Matt just don’t fall into their ‘slandering’ trap. I’m sure they’d like nothing better than to have you mouthing off (justified or not) publicly.
@ Colleen.. sorry.. but you’ve been sucked in to all the hype. The people proclaimimg success are the ones that are now bailing out quicker than a fart in a bathtub or are the core scientologists that are bound to Krider by some sort of Xenu-like infatuation… or.. as in your case.. in so deep financially that you are terrified of failure.
Success with PolarisMediaGroup is dependant on how quick you can get away from them and recover from the brainwashing… get out now before it completely destroys you and your family.
@ S Lashbrook.. you’ve just proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Beyond Freedom Program is a heap of shite. $2000 for a self development course and you go and attack Matt like you have just done???
Oh.. and have a super awesome day!!
Know Yourself …. Scientology
Know for Yourself … Polarismediagroup
Buggered if I can see any similarities there!!
So does anyone know what went on over the urgent team member phone call in Australia last night?
That’d be Ralph Nader, although he hasn’t posted in a while so I’m not sure if he’s following the thread still.
Just as an aside if you’re after legal advice I’d be going and seeing a proper lawyer, despite people’s qualifications information given over the internet in a public forum isn’t legal advice.
This just in (by me :P), the Polaris Media Group ning forum has been renamed to
“Network Marketing Network”
to quote the ungreat Delywn MacKenzie “…just believe……..”
and give us your money..
Lashbrook isn’t a lawyer. How many times now is it that various people have made legal threats on this blog to various people?
A lawyer would have done research on the viability of the case and gone for the jugular by now (if the case was at all viable, that is), without spamming various threats in the comments.
My guess is that the PMG downlines (apart from the head scam artists like Rush and Lavenia) are making so little money that they can’t afford a lawyer, either on retainer, or for a single case/instance. So they are reduced to giving armchair threats against people.. in order to make themselves bigger.
Polaris Media Group: The only business you can clear lube yourself up with Xenu.
Even with the rebrand of the rebrand, Network Marketing Network, they are fighting against the tide. There’s 150 million or so pages already on the Net, which should relegate the Rush, Lavenia and Krider show to a lowly backwater.. or even better another round of company/downline resignations.
Well so much for not trying to steal/recruit members from PolarisMediaGroup! Tony Rush now has all the people that thought they were a part of the PMG ning community, getting fed all sorts of bs from the ‘great delete’ , under the new guise of Network Marketing Network.
He will be back to flogging useless affiliate systems and links that have “helped me achieve my multiple six-figure income”.
@ning members… This guy is one serious dimwit. Don’t all be idiots guys.. he’s having a lend of you.. tell Rush to shove his ning page up his proverbial!
I’m not sure if all these people are quite switched on though. You’d think that having 3 different names in 3 months (Liberty League International, Polaris Media Group, Network Marketing Network) would smell trouble, but to some of these people, maybe not…many (brainwashed) will still be there defending all the “negative talk”.
Just to clear things up here.
Tony Rush owns the ning page that has now become Network Marketing Network (was libertyleaguelife.ning then polarismedia.ning).
By just changing the page name he still keeps all the members in his listing.
By all accounts Tony has now left PMG (or was sacked??). He now still has a certain ‘control’ over those that are members of his ning page… mainly PMG distributors.He’d be able to bulk email/spam all the members.. advertise to them whatever he likes etc., etc. You can see where this could lead..
Sort of doesn’t seem quite ethical to me… not much ‘personal development’going on in that mans head!!
I’m still there, so am happy to post ANYTHING he puts on that group on here for people to look at objectively 🙂
I feel so apologotic on one nand but so powerful on thbe other … PMG needed exposure but some many have lost their dreams – BUT it would have happened anyway – so get it touch
A big wave to Tony. Whi is he kidding? He checks this site REGULARLY himself…lol
Translation: The last 4 1/2 years have been awesome as I have been able to not work whilst taking your money, sitting on my rear and eating all of the burgers I can get my hands on. It’s been a blast!
Translation: It’s great at the top o’ the pyramid! Look at me up here!
Translation: Please keep in touch. I have a new scam I am working on, and it will be easier for me if I have a network of suckers to get it started. You deserve it!
Translation: I couldn’t give a rats a%$e what you do from now on, but if it involves earning money that you can give to me- keep in touch! Know for Yourself! You deserve it! etc etc to fade…
Funny…. thats the way I read that email too!!
Keep us posted on whats happening at the ning forum.
shall do Martin.
“Blatant defamation constitutes a $250K fine in this country”
You think nobody here will call you out on that?
Utter drivel. Quote the Act or STFU.
“testimonials given at events are an obvious wavering of rights on your behalf”
Pardon? More utter drivel. Judge Judy would be apoplectic.
Then you end with an outright defamation yourself.
Is your statement true?
Did you know it to be true when you made it?
Was publishing it in the public interest?
On this last point you are in serious trouble in the overall context of your posting. It is clearly off-topic and shows malice, leaving it open to a court to award damages even of true. Again, given that it is published world-wide, not just overheard in the local coffee shop, those damages could be quite considerable.
Do you know what putative damages are?
So apart from whining assertion, where is your rebuttal and correction of the “facts”?
Your implication that websites are somehow immune from the normal operation of the law is simply wrong in fact. I would also point out that you have a Right of Reply you will never get from any paper publication. It’s up to you to use it wisely.
“Who cares what their beliefs are”
The key point of course is that a connection with Scientology is a marketing BOATANCHOR, a MILLSTONE, Cotton Candy made with real cotton, a foghorn made with real fog.
It’s not a matter what Oz or any of the poster here think of Scientology, it’s what the potential client base, Albert and Alice Aussie, thinks of it that make any such connection marketing poison. And well you know it.
That’s ‘Ralph Nader QC’; I had to study defamation law once, but I am certainly not a lawyer ‘tho I have tried to generally pay attention when writing forensic reports and giving evidence.
The best legal advice I can give you is, get a real lawyer.
The only suckers here are on the ones who fall for the BS in thi site.
It’s called “Punitive Damages” and yes, I do no what they are.
One can only be sued when they have taken money from someone and not delivered a product or service.
So, all of you do not have the adult mentality of taking personal responsibility.
Again, I am fully aware of those that have pulled out and really do not care.
For those who do want to know:
Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.
I will agree that there are some people who are in business still have a lot to learn when offering other services and continue to tell others to take personal responsibility and usually my response is “Okay, I take responsibility for hiring you and paying an unethical business customer service person who does not return funds as promised.”
Those people still have quite a bit to learn.
My point is that I do know several people that I talk to regularly who are grateful for joining the company, as I am grateful. Some have left, some are still in it.
It is their choice.
So with that said. Go put some diapers on, as your will need them to carry your crap around on a daily basis.
have you read the posts from those that feel the have been ripped off??
They were initially sucked in by the advertisements that promised untold wealth with a simple three step business system where they would never have to sell anything, work 10 to 15 hours a week, never have to explain what they do.. etc., etc.
That, was complete and utter shite.
The commomn testamony here is of having to spend 10 to 12 hours a day trying to build your business, often producing hundreds of leads at massive costs, generally producing zero to no sales over a period of months with sweet bugger all help from the original sponser.
Most, if not all of the posts here regale us with testamonies of having been pressured to ‘get positioned’ by spending yet more money on stupidly overpriced conference tickets, only to find that, again they were being ripped off.
Again, most, if not all regale us with testamonies of being shot down when they questioned why the were not getting the success that was so blatently guaranteed by the leaders.. most of them being publicly ridiculed as being failures because they were not following ‘ the system’.
In all fairness, Coleen.. get real.. you are completely lost here. When 99 percent of posters to an open forum are telling you that they are being ripped off, its a fair (to say the least) indication that indeed, they are most certainly being ripped off.
Polaris deliver crap all when it comes to a product (have they actually got a product apart from a $2.99 DVD?) and deliver even less when it comes to a service.. unlesss you step up and ‘position yourself’… freakishly scientoligist’ist (is that a word?). ‘Step up’ to what? FFS?? Another $30 grand of stupid debt??
I fear you may be the one that needs a diaper as anyone in your position must be seriously shitting themselves at the moment, as is evidenced by the mass bailouts occuring from management level down!
Oh.. and one more thing.. to say you do not care about all the hundreds of ordinary people that have been ripped off by this scam only further cements the fact that your personal development programmes are utter drivel!
Have a super SUPER awesome day!
@ Coleen – is this Bettina?
The only suckers left are the ones still in PMG.
1. How will You generate leads to talk to? Marketing in so much more complex and expensive than it was.
2. Once they have someones interest – how are they going to convert them? – they will search the net for PMG and will find this blogg and be gone .
3. Noone really want to get involved with Scientology.
4. Additionally this rediculous Compl Plan is unworkable – the only ones to benefit would be the top poeple – BUT they have even seen the light and moved on.
I know for a fact that the Jan Events are not going to take place – its over.
The only ones who will need diapers will be poeple like yourself when you realise what has happened/.
There is only one Coleen in the ning group and I quote the page:
“I am a former Paralegal who found this opportunity at a turning point in my life, decided to make a change and through the Law Of Attraction, without realizing it, Liberty League, now Polaris Media Group arrived at the perfect time.”
Is this you Coleen?
If so, Coleen may well be familiar with the law, which will hold her in great stead for when she has to dodge it with Scientology. Though I guess she knows that already, as her biggest ambitions are to “take inros to a live call, be an EMC member, win a rising star award”. You do know that you have to be a Scientologist to be in the EMC right Coleen? How does that sit with you?
Tell me Coleen (if this is you), it says on your profile that you have been in the “business” for 1-2 years?
Why haven’t you won a rising star yet?
You really should do your beyond freedom more, be “on purpose” and “know for yourself”.
from the same Coleen in response to a post in a forum:
“I, of course, did have some thoughts of going and every time I mention it, it does not feel right to go, thus my gut is to stay and keep promoting the best thing that has happened to me and my initial beginning in the Network Marketing/Direct Sales Industry.”
Seems to me that someone is on the fence…
and this one day ago from Coleen in response to getting assistance with phone calls to prospective suckers..
“Ben, You are always welcome to call me for a 3-way, however, be advised that I am working, so evenings after 7 p.m. I am available. I am still with PMG, got a little off track and working on multiple streams of income to really burn the boat of the JOB.”
Seems to me also that someone isn’t earing that much at at all as they still have to work that j.o.b. (a favourite quote of the EMC).
I have nothing to hide and nothing more to say as everything is now in the hands of solictors … The outright slanderous comments posted about me above were also sent from my email and facebook accounts to friends and family and business associates by illegally hacking in to my accounts ??? Please feel free to join my event on facebook called MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED … An event which will end in court and my case is rock solid !!! Thank you for your support … I am feeling stronger than ever and I will take this whole scam down !!! They have messed with the wrong guy !!! Have a great day & best wishes to you all always !!!
the sick bastards
Shane Krider on the monday call officially annoucing the resignations.
Seems fairly rattled be it, but has to add his 2cents in taking a hard line against cross promoting.
Funniest part is when Rachael finally stops talking and no one’s there to take over!
Know Thyself – Socrates
Scientology was around back then?
Socrates probably went to the same prep school as Xenu??
“Know nothing” Whats your point??
“It’s called “Punitive Damages” and yes, I do no what they are.”
Putative ain’t punitive. Google: Malapropism.
The question was actually directed to @S Lashbrook (unless you are one and the same).
So we can take it then that you do not “no” (nor even bothered to Google) putative (sic) damages. Your knowledge of defamation law is incomplete. Ask a real lawyer. You might also get an opinion on what a false accusation of child rape on a web site is worth in putative (sic) damages.
“One can only be sued when they have taken money from someone and not delivered a product or service.”
Where do you get this rubbish from? You really do need to brush up on your law. It’s worth noting that The Age bought an associate of mine a nice house just for the word “jailbird”.
Still with the insults and no specific rebuttal of some vague “BS”.
I repeat; apart from whining assertion, where is your rebuttal and correction of the “facts”? Or do you only have a differing *opinion*.
After reading @Matt it would seem my previous comments about defamation may actually get tested. I didn’t fancy @S Lashbrook’s statement even if true, but if they have identified a real person and the statement is *untrue* @S Lashbrook is neck-deep in very serious odure.
In the case outlined by @S Lashbrook it’s also Sydney to a brick that there would be a Supression Order from the court, and naming someone could find you charged with contempt and *literally* explaining it to the judge. If you imitate the Human Headline you could well end up in the dock beside him.
In any case I wish @Matt the very best with his new house, car, boat, air con, etc.
I have just listened to half of the call made by Rachel Oliver, Lisa Molina & Krider, mentioned by phife above. I couldn’t take any more than half, cos it was such a load of drivel interspersed by nervous laughter and lots of “you knows”. I began to notice early on that at least two common $cientology terms are used repeatedly by Oliver & Molina, but interestingly not by Krider. These are 1)”at-cause” –In Scientology, failing to be “at-cause” is tantamount to a sin. If you are not “at-cause” then you are either wilfully perverse, or pathetically ignorant, and either way you need copious amounts of “auditing” to put you right. A very negative interpretation in both cases. 2)”on-purpose”–according to the Tone Scale, Hubbard’s list of the emotional “vibrations” of humans, if one was a staff-member, or a Sea Org member, one was either “On-purpose”, or “Off-purpose”. In the segment I listened to, the phrases were repeated about nine or ten times.
I just listened to the Monday call recording and my stomach has turned.
For how long is EMC leadership going to put on this act that ‘ everything is great in polaris’?
When will Shane realise that he is creating a followers factory not a leadership factory.
The real leaders with real talent have all left.
Does anyone else notice that after listening to a few of the calls that a common characteristic of them is that after if one of them goes on for a bit everyone else dissapears?
(presumably they get bored and wander off to go do housework/look after the kids/whatever).
Then when the person stops talking and asks who’s still there you get awkward silences… and then a few minutes later the others rush back to the pc to check lol.
I’ve heard this happen on a decent percentage of the calls I’ve listened to.
it amuses me how Oliver says that she joined Polaris a couple of years ago – absolute rubbish as PMG didnt exist 2 years ago.
But we all know that – perhaps someone should tell her – but they probably wont be able to get past her security.. she must be one worried bimbo…
This just posted on the ning page from Tony Rush
(after people there were like deer in the headlights after he buggered off):
“For the record, this site is still operating according to the exact same standards and policies as it was prior to my resignation.
As long as no one uses this forum for selling other network marketing opportunities, anyone is welcome to participate and have conversations about their PMG business.”
The hypocrisy is palpable.
Yes, and the calls are now being grouped together as “worldwide”.
Correct me if I’m worng, but if your business is “expanding”, would you not need to create MORE calls for the various areas around the world to cater for everyone?
Making the calls “worldwide” is just an (albeit celever) attempt at deflecting the FACT that they are going under.
I for one am happy to keep posting etc until they do 🙂
I am ALL OVER Polaris.
Watching and waiting 😀
@iwonder — and Im right there with you on that !
NEWS JUST IN: RUMOUR HAS IT THAT DELWYN MCKENZIE HAS RESIGNED!!!!
where did you hear this ?
@ also the truth
An associate was told that she had resigned, and if they had any quesries, to contact Shane Krider directly.
Lets not encourage harassing people just for the sake of it guys.
Oz if you are talking about the harassment which I have received, I just wish to confirm that the only charges on any record for me are a speeding fine or two so the defamation on this site and illegally sent from my email and facebook addresses are the sort of harassment which will see someone in court or even jail but again points out to all readers here the disgusting levels that these people will go to !!!
Just heard that wake up calls and Black Belt calls have been cancelled and TONY RUSH left because his last salary check bounced!! Delwyn McKenzie has done a runner – noone can contact her – noone in her loyal team.
Its over ! About bloody time!
Indeed. And I know Tony reads this blog, along with others.
I told you to get your crap out of this country, Tony, but as expected, you didn’t care. We probably can’t do much when you’re operating your shit in America or other countries, but the second you (or the others) try that again here, we’ll be back, again 🙂
@also the truth
Bounced? Oh Ho Ho Ho, merry x-mas.
Now that IS interesting.
I wonder if Delywn Makenzie left as well? I can’t find any info on that. I will be interesting to see if it’s true. I’m just wondering when Rachel Oliver is going to bail out.
@Colleen…. Breathe, slow down and pay attention. Wish I had taken my own advise. A company cannot bring people into an “income” program under particular promises LLI and then quickly change products and compensation plan and not be accountable. Get your brain working and your diapers ready because you are full of —-.
Again most of you are very misinformed. I find it interesting how you guys are at baited breath waiting on any news for polaris. And if any if these people do leave, what difference does that make? People leave all the time in these types of businesses. Serious guys, lets see some intelligent commentary here and stop the BS.
Sooner or later you will realize that this company will not only survive but will flourish in a few months time. The more useless commentary there is on this , the more credibility you add to this company. You actually start to look less credible and more ridiculous than the company you are bashing. And then comes the turning point, where you start looking like the bad guys and then this barage become just another conspiracy theory / crazy people thread on the internet. So, unless you have something of value to say or discuss, keep your words to yourself.
Mark this post and revisit 6 months from now.
If you try to contact her, you will be told to go to Shane Krider as she has resigned.
Oliver will bail when she realises she has bled everyone dry and not before.
As I have previously stated – I know that the January Events are not happening – so that will be the definative end of it – mid Jan. They are hanging out till then to “cream” as much as possible before then . “INTEGRITY” my butt.
Oh how you you would like Oz to abdicate the field. Fact is, this blog has been effective in upsetting the little scam waggon, and this is only possible because LLI/PMG stink to high heaven. Every time something happens like the DoFT determination or the Scientology link we are told we have got our facts wrong. Ask yourself why a *legitimate* business would have any part, or need, of pathetically vacant legal threats and vile defamation.
Your problem really is that this blog continues to be on the money.
And don’cha just hate that? :))
I think most of us can recognise totally over the top lashing out. It only demonstrates the lengths they will go to to silence critics when deprived of a ‘delete’ button.
Hey Matt, it was more in reference to the comments encouraging people to call up Polaris associates without business intentions.
Do you have any idea who’s writing about you on here or who accessed your account?
@the truthbeknow – the bad press in the US a few years ago seriously effected the preformance of LLI. This blogg and others will/have devistated LLI/PMG period. Do you condone the crap that Krider is promoting? How are you finding the new compl plan? – is it working for you? I very much doubt it. It has only taken 3 months for most of the associate base and “top” earners to have left. How on earth can you imagine that this company will survive. it will not.
truthbeknown sounds a lot like Tony Rush. And, if so, he has a vested interest in PMG succeeding since he, Braxton and the Lavenias are now Northstar Connect. Where do you think their primary customers are going to come from?? PMG, of course.
What is also ironic… I remember Shannon Lavenia saying on a call not long ago when asked about Unified Wealth Solutions… she said that she was a network marketer and that the UWS system was only started to provide a service to her team; that she never had any intentions of going into the lead management business. Of course, that was before the recent fallout over PMG.
Isn’t that part of what Northstar Connect is? A lead management system? Oh, and they’re going to train you to be as successful in network marketing as they were. I guess they’re going to now come out and give you all their marketing “secrets”…. hmmm… I thought you said “the secret is… there is no secret”.
Well their primary customers have come from PMG – and one’s who have already cancelled their subscription as well! Appears I’m an unknowing customer, and my credit card details have been passed on!! Check out my post on the other thread. My blood is boiling …
Nope, I am not the Rush man.
I find the new comp plan to work.
All these supposed top leaders leaving, that is a good thing– they could not adapt to a business model that rewards people who know how to help other succeed.
As for this blog affecting the business, I feel it has only made the company better by getting the dead weight off. So I love this blog and what it has done for this company. So I thank Oz. But I look forward to people keeping the debate on a high level. Intelligent debate can only help everyone involved in the discussion.
The changes that Krider has done, had to be done, the previous chapter of the company of LLI had run its course and required to evolve. As for the Scientlology stuff, I feel the products will speak for themselves and will not be what you expect.
The company being devastated? I think it’s a better company without these people (“leaders”) dragging it down with their BS business practices and overstatement of incomes. Finally a fresh start.
As for the events not happening, this company has a history of booking stuff at the last minute , so not unusual. Its their DMO.
Hi all, Thanks for all your info here. I left Polaris recently when I found out the truth after doing some long overdue research.
I didn’t make more money than I invested but at the same time did not really work the business as advised and had planned on launching myself into it with full commitment towards the end of this year.
I have left because once the blinkers came off the deceit became very apparent and once I saw the statistics about how many have success, I could not bear the thought that if the failure rate was 85%, that any success I did have would come partially from people who were trying, and then not making money themselves.
@ also the truth – how do you know the January event is not going ahead?
I would be glad to hear that it isn’t but having said that, recent announcements include that it will be at the Royal Pines resort and that the speaker is Scott Burrows and registrations have opened (I received an order for it from a team member as Polaris have failed to delete my email address out of the system) and the Royal Pines are sending out booking forms to people who ring to book accommodation.
If they cancel after taking all of these bookings and accommodation deposits there will be allot of very very irate people trying to claim a refund.
The disgusting defamatory lies made about me on this site and illegally sent out by hacking in to my email and facebook accounts are currently being investigated by the computer crimes division of the Australian Federal Police who have been alerted to the whole situation …
I’d bet my last dollar that @truthbeknown is none other than Shane Krider himself.
Of course he does! He’s making a killing off monthly website subscriptions and teleconferencing subscriptions alone. The only game he’s playing is to keep people subscribing. Do the math, monthly subscriptions alone are enough for him to make a nice living. If he can create an atmosphere where “quitting = failing” and keep those monthly subscriptions rolling in, his business has succeeded.
Anyone who has yet to make a profit deserves to understand this! He makes very little money (if any at all) on those conferences and the profit margin on the physical products is relatively small once you factor in the commissions. It’s the subscriber base that feeds the beast!
Excuse me? Many of the “supposed top leaders” were on the EMC. If you truly believe what is preached @truthbeknown, you would realize the fatal flaw in your argument. Remember, “the secret to success with PMG is …. there is no secret” because you can “only lead by example” and also “the highest level of leadership I can provide is to make as much money as I can as fast as I can.” If the EMC were making money, they would be doing everything the company preaches to lead others to success. I have to infer from your argument that the “supposed top leaders” were simply not making any money with the new compensation plan and that is how they failed to “help others succeed”.
The circular arguments this group puts out amaze me.
I remember hearing this same argument once when someone jumped out on a call and asked where all the people featured in the Beyond Freedom video were and how come nobody ever heard from them or saw them anymore. They were a “cancer” the caller was told, and the company only gets stronger when the “cancer” is removed. They have used this argument for years to explain the massive attrition. If just once they had publicly acknowledge that they sure hated to lose someone, maybe the “dead weight” or “cancer” argument would hold some truth but it appears in their warped world, 100% of the people who are no longer active PMG/LLI associates are “dead weight”.
So let me get this straight: All the departed EMC members were “dead weight” who either couldn’t or wouldn’t help others succeed. Nice mudslinging @truthbeknown.
“…. the products will speak for themselves”. Again, I’m curious. How can product testimonials exist when the product has not yet been released? Unless it’s based on Scientology technology. Who are those people in the “Know For Yourself” DVD? Let me guess? Scientologists!
With all that said, I still don’t believe John Lavenia, Shannon Lavenia, Gene Braxton or Tony Rush have cut ties with Polaris Media Group. It would look like they’re taking a hit for the company with the implications that they were terminated over compliance issues and they’re sending a strong message to the remaining subscribers that even they’re not above the law of Shane Krider. Whatever they’re up to now, I’d bet it’s still connected to Shane and the Polaris Media Group infrastructure.
If I understand the posts correctly regarding billing issues with Northstar, it appears they somehow received credit card numbers through Polaris Media Group. That would indicate to me the two systems either remain connected or there is some serious fraud taking place.
If you’ve been billed after you cancelled your subscription you should go immediately to your credit card and dispute the charge. Credit card companies don’t like mass disputes and will freeze or terminate their merchant account if they aren’t a clean operation. Do Not Wait on Polaris Media Group or Northstar to correct their billing errors. Go to your credit card company with your facts and dates in hand and tell them you suspect fraud if you are being charged by another entity!
Finally the truth from @truthbeknown. That would explain the dismal quality of the speakers who show up only to hawk their own stuff in the back of the room. It’s always great to show up at a conference you’ve paid thousands to attend and be told the “rest of the story” is for sale in the back. Guess that’s what happens when you can’t afford to actually pay the top notch speakers.
We’ll just trust you on that shall we?
truthbeknown…you are living in lala land.
I can’t imagine that the Lavenia’s, Tony, and Gene were dead weight with PMG. For one, the Lavenia’s and Shane were, and I imagine still are, BEST friends. They wouldn’t have been ‘let go’ for compliance issues, because they are too tight with each other. Makes no sense. And, yes, you can bet that they are linked together in growing PMG from many different directions, which, in time, will be more clear. Many EMC members and top earners have left because of the new comp plan, as their annual earnings dropped significantly, for one in particular, a 1/3. That is HUGE! This particular person also got to witness first hand, the greed of Shane…of course, I believe that to be a top earner, there needs to be a bit of greed, or complete unawarness present, and to be somewhat disconnected from those people that are recruited into the business and fail.
RT – You would lose that last dollar on that bet. I am not Shane.
1- The comp plan is far superior to the previous plan for those who actually build a business instead of a churn and burn shop.
2- The “leaders” who left where holding the company back. You may have seen these people as the top performers, the gurus or the top earners, but others did not. Many people left in the past due to these people having such a big influence on the company.
3- If you feel just because some of these people made significant income that this also made them great business builders/people, then you are mistaken. All the practices, tactics and “quotes” you reference came about because of these people and how they ran their businesses.
4- Testimonials on the Beyond Freedom Product have no bearing on the expanded versions of the Beyond Freedom Product? You are misinformed— The original Beyond Freedom Product is a component of the Beyond Freedom Evolution Product so the testimonials apply. And all the testimonials I have heard reference the Beyond Freedom Program anyway. As for income testimonials, the front end of the compensation plan has not changed much, (large upfront commissions) so the income testimonials would still apply. Its like a Herbalife distributor not being able to make an income testimonial because herbalife decided to expand their product line, rebrand themselves, and expand the compensation plan. (that is what herbalife did). A name change is a re branding move.
5-You want proof that most the EMC members that left were not business builders–easy– the company is still up and running and will be more successul without them
6- Labeling everyone who leaves PMG/LLI as dead weight is a tactic developed by the people who just left. Because plenty of people left in the past because of these people BS. So everyone who leaves is not dead weight, but this last round of “leaders” were.
7- no mudslinging just truth. The hypocrisy of some of the people who have left is disturbing but not surprising.
8- Finally a breath of fresh air.
My guess is ‘truthbeknown’ is Simon Haggard or Kieron Atkinson!!!!! Sounds like their BS!!
yeah you may be right
The compl plan will be good for your “oldies” but BS for the newbie.. What assistance are you going to give them with
1. marketing 2. scientology
That sigma will never go away now and ppl dont like it
1- oldies or newbies – both will do fine.
2- marketing is a function of just taking the time to train people for once.
3- The only people talking about Scientology are people on this board. This will become irrelevant when the products are launched. People aren’t stupid. If the products, events and trainings have nothing to do with Scientology, the majority of people will see how irrelevant it is.
4- The people who practice Scientology and drag it into their business affairs are all gone.
5- You definitely sound a like person who was part of a “churn and burn” shop. I am sure your upline “EMC” or “Leader” is also gone.. Seeing a pattern?
6- Sometimes your observations can be correct but your perspective can have you looking at it all wrong.
7- Do you think it was good when the other founder was around . Trust me, he is mister do not rock the boat, keep the cash coming in no matter how ridiculous it gets. It had to stop.
I am not Simon or Kieron. Sorry to disappoint you.
the only thing I can say is ..yeah right….
I think youre buggered…you wont be able to salvage it
The products were written by scientologists and contain scientology phrases and what not; are you going to rewrite them all yourself?
@truthbeknown So all those powerful and highly acclaimed “leaders” were just “churn and burn” Really…do you believe this nonsense or are you just a complete liar? For months I listened to the acclaim and BS from all of this drama squad. Rush and all the oversell on the calls, marching up on stage at the events with over praise. Its all about money and those who left were not making it. Actually its kind of fun reading your comic book posts and knowing I am free of all the manipulation. Glad I do not ever have to meet you in person. There is something slimy going on in the background with all of this, but you cannot get away forever with over-hyping crap. Anybody still involved is surely either an idiot or not sleeping well. Funny how things changed so quickly. Top brass is now just relegated the caliber you and they all loved to dis. Greedy and self deceptive with nothing to offer. How hypocritical!! My purpose in posting here is to enlighten others to do some serious research before they fall prey to this dangerous game. SHAME!!!!
truthbeknown fails to recognise that the complete business model as practiced by LLI/PMG is immoral, unethical and indefensible. If the remnant rump of PMG continues in existence, then the fact remains that more people will continue to be scammed. As a student of the evil $cientology cult for over twenty years, I see many of it’s traits being exhibited by the leaders of PMG and their henchmen/women. The simple fact is that PMG offers fairly basic “self help” products, which are of questionable value at the best of times, for exorbitant amounts of money. At the end of the day, a rip off is a rip off is a rip off.
Whatever bells and whistles you are adding, the fact is that you’re still selling a lie.
The ‘business model’ ..for want of a better description.. is unproven as the income disclosure is based on a totally different system that was.. umm .. unproven (85%+ failure rate)
You’re still hawking worthless products. Products that don’t exist cannot have any value, can they?? The only one that does exist is a $3 dvd full of Kriders Scientology bull sh… Its all one big huge scam in an industry based on selling your scam on to someone else to sell the scam on to the next victim.
Herbalife is no different… if it worked you would still be with them along with Rachel and several others that she originally scammed in to Liberty League.
The fact is that this crap has run its course. Liberty League had to change its spots to survive and fortunately it looks like the new leopard that is PolarisMediaGroup is dying.. slowly but surely.
I hope you feel well pleased with yourself for all those people that you have ripped off in the past with your false claims and ridiculous ‘living it large’ photos that you all put on your equally ridiculous $2 websites.
Krider himself is no better than the rest of you.. he is constantly writing articles implying that PMG is connected to the success of individuals that have in fact absolutely nothing to do with the scam. Check out his blog .. absolutely unbelievable.. all lies.. whether implied or not.
The biggest bs artist of them all is still happily spouting the deception that you are saying is now gone… Rachel Oliver. If PMG wer serious about taking a new responsible direction, she would have been the first to be shown the door. The truthbeknown…. nothing has changed.
You’re all still full of crap.
boris- what leaders are you talking about? They are all gone. Unethical business model, why – elaborate on this Boris. The pricing on the products vs value? That may be your opinion but many would disagree.
hc- you do not have to believe this. That is the way it is.
Interesting how you are almost defending these people now.
Yes it is always about the money…but why did they stop making it? Was the new comp plan not rewarding their usual churn and burn practices?
Vince- what if the products are not written by anyone in Polaris or anyone who practices Scientology? Then what.
Martin- no false claims here-no ripping off here- no lifestyle BS photos either. Explain how Rachael is spouting deception.
85% failure rate, not in everyone’s organization. Polaris is actually getting better everyday.
This is a network marketing business so some things are just part of the industry. You may not like network marketing but it is here to stay.
Come to think of it – 15% success rate is pretty good. I thought it was less company wide, thanks for the statistic, have not seen that disclosure in a long time.
But that statistic that is right in line with people who start conventional businesses and even franchise businesses. The only difference is startup money.
I don’t live by what IF, I live by what IS.
You obviously don’t know Rachel as well as you think! Apartment on the Brisbane river?? ..she lives on the Gold Coast.
Multiple sixfigure income??.. outside of the few good months she had this time last year(when she sucked in all her herbalife devotees) she would be lucky to be made a hundred grand this year.. and she’s supposed to be the top earner??
She lies about where she was born, constantly contradicts herself… evil on two legs!!
I have to agree with you that network marketing is a sound business model and is certainly here to stay. Your scam is not true network marketing .. in fact your leader Krider encourages you not to engage with outsiders and not to engage in forum discussions.
Why all the deception on the scam websites?? True network marketing offers full disclousure up front.. i.e. ‘this is what we do and here is how we do it..this is what it costs’.
Any website can have this information on it.. except your mob..why??..
.. because your scam is all about getting people on to the overview calls where they are sucked in by all the false/exagerated testimonials and BS stories, which are actually based on a totally different compensation plan!
Yes.. you may be the one and only true network marketer amongst the usual cloned drivel but we’d have to see your website for that to be determined.. A true network marketer would be more than happy to share their website link.
So your saying that you are happy for 85% of your downline to be failing. You are happy to take their money knowing that the overwhelming majority will not profit.
The fact that you’ve not seen the disclosure in a long time leads me to believe that you don’t share the disclosure with new victims?? How thoughtfull of you.
We’ve seen this argument here before. A conventional business will have some value, whether a success or not.. your scam is worthless as a business whether successfull of not. Put your business up for sale and see what you’d get for it?? Even a franchise with debts is worth selling on.
Your ‘business’ is worthless no matter how much money you throw at it, no matter how much money you might make, no matter how many years you give to it…. so sorry to burst your bubbble, but No, the start up money is one of many many differences.
In relation to the authors of the (non existant??) products.. why not tell us who wrote them?? Do you know?
Please.. feel free to share, or is that not your MO.. being a network marketer and all that.
Your posts are absolutely mind boggling.
To sat that it (PMG) is “just getting better” is the most amazingly inaccurate statement I have heard.
Tell me- how did you measure that?
Did you manage to scam a couple of extra people who had not yet researched you and your scam? They will leave when they research it. You may have the odd few stragglers that stay who are a: desprerate as they have spent money already or b: lonely people in dire need of personal development but unfortunately for them, they came across your webpage.
You must know in your heart (?) that this “company” is complete and utter b.s.? Or are you that ingrained into the culture of trying to get something for nothing that you are willing to do ANYTHING to get there.
We certainly have. Perhaps these people need to read all of the posts?
There are still some EXTREMELY dodgey “leaders” in this business. lol….I find it amusing that you ignore the Scientology courses the EMC attended. Why is that? Or are you AGAIN going to mislead people by telling them that they didn’t exist?
By claiming income figures from a comapny that is not PMG, nor is it even in operation. You know….LLI…the one that was labelled as a scam. The one that RACHEL OLIVER HERSELF said wasn’t, and that the NSW Office of Fair Trading didn’t know what they were talking about.
PMG will go under. Not because of this site. Not because of the EMC who have left. Not because of the ruining of people’s lives. But the very simple fact that the business model DOES NOT WORK.
You mate, are delusional.
If you check my post of Dec.6th above you will see how both Rachel Oliver and Lisa Molina repeatedly use scientology terms on their calls.
I don’t need to elaborate on the the ethics on something that to any normal person is completely unethical.
Paying multiple thousands of dollars for books, dvds and courses that are really worth a fraction of that amount, is that good value?
“churn and burn” – what an apt phrase!
Let’s see if I’ve got this right; the fantastic marketing gurus who were teaching associates how to make six figure incomes in six months with no work, are actually “dead weight”.
Peacock one day, feather duster the next. At least they are consistent in eating their own.
[15%] But that statistic that is right in line with people who start conventional businesses and even franchise businesses.
You got a source to back that up, or are we supposed to just take your word for it? With bistros and cafe’s the failure rate is about 30% in the first year and falls rapidly after that.
What trust can be placed in people who’s motto is “Fake it ’til you make it”?
My my granma, what big teeth you have.
As for “products” the primary stock in trade of LLI/PMG, and Scientology for that matter, is HOT AIR.
PMG is getting better and better because the people required to leave are leaving and the people required to take the company in the right direction are staying or returning.
As for Rachael – since I do not know her personally , I give people the benefit of the doubt. She is a woman and her privacy maybe a concern, but if she is being this way to deceive people, she will not last much longer.
LLI is PMG- PMG is Polaris. Name change and ownership changes that is all. So same company, same products.
As for LLI being labeled a pyramid scheme by NSW, that was an opinion not a fact. This would have to go to a court of law to determine this and if it ever did, it would not be found to be a pyramid scheme.
There are many more people whose motto is not “fake it til you make it”. “Fake it til you make” never works long term. So why do it. You’ll make more money if you don’t.
As for my website– I don’t have one –here is a process.
Place an ad, get a response, have a conversation and direct them to a presentation, if they are interested in moving forward I then answer any and all questions, and I direct them to this blog and I address every concern they have.. and they make a decision for themselves. Let me tell you this site saves me a lot of time. People are not stupid, all they want are real answers so they can decide for themselves. Total transparency is always the better route.
As for the value of the products, many people see the value in them including myself. So the $3 dvd comment is your opinion. I may feel that 25 dollars for the Transformers2 movie is a total rip off but that is my opinion. Millions of people buy movie dvds everyday for 25 or 30 dollars. I feel the Know For Yourself DVD is worth more than the 30 bucks.
Martin- That was one of drawbacks of the previous business structure of the company, nothing to build that could be sold for any significant amount. Although some did sell their business for double the startup cost. Some people just faded into the background because of this. But now there is an opportunity to build something that could be sold.
This is my opinion from the sidelines at the time. Hey for me they were not “Peacocks”.
Stats- That is why I never really paid mind to the stats because they can easily be manipulated. Look I have owned successful franchises and have sold unsuccessful one in the past. From personal experience franchises have a 80 percent failure rate with in 5 years, but you will never see this stat because when I sold my unsuccessful franchise to another person at a loss, that location/business is not counted as a failed operation, even though it was. The franchise will just pass from person to person until someone can make it work. So stats really mean nothing. So 15% success rate in a business/industry with no barriers to entry is too good, so the stat is suspect.
The point is that failure rates mean nothing in the world of business. For example in the stock market if you can be right only 25 percent of the time you can become wealthy with the right money management strategy (be able to take small losses and let the winners run)
The comment that “the business model doesn’t work” is funny. I guess we’ll see as the months and years go by what the result will be. But money is not made on hindsight.
Thanks for the engaging conversation, but let me get out visit some sites.
If truthbeknow doesnt know Ms Oliver personal – he is a newbie – spouting the same out BS that has been spouted for years. He seems intelligent enough – but obviously not enough for being sucked into this. At the end of the day this is a Sciti biz with no integrity. The company changed the whole structure of itself with no warning and charges its associates a shit load on money just to attend a product launch. It is obvious to those of us that have been around a while that it was due to the heat the oz govt was putting on it. The new compl planis rediculously unworkable as has been demonstrated by all the ppl left. As for Lavenai/Rush/Braxton – their leaving is a BS attempt to restructure their involvement. Il sick of the BS and repeating the FACTS again and again and again.
Also by the timing of the last post – this person is in the USA or even Europe.
@truthbeknown – you will fit right in – you have the arrogance and that critical sense of self delusion and lack of concern for your “victum”. However you still wont make any money in the company and you’d better get your Xenu hat out.
I urge people researching this scam to check out the following link from the NSW Department of Fair Trading website. Dated 9 Sep 2009, declaring Liberty League International a PYRAMID SCHEME.
The people at the top of the Pyramid (especially in America) seem to not think our Department of Fair Trading is anything important. As you can see, @truthbeknown is no different.
Intertesting, seeing as I was advised to do this by a current member of the EMC. Are your business practices so poor that you cannot even organise the EMC? Differing views of course are to be expected, but something as blatant as saying “fake it til you nake it” or “be a good storyteller” are quite ridiculous views are they not? Very clever though, as it gets your minions into the loop of feeling like they are surrounded by millionaires (which is also untrue, but feel free to prove otherwise @truthbeknown by form of a bank statement). My previous advisor was forever getting their earnings mixed up. One day it was this…the next it was less….the next it was 50k more. If they were going to completely lie you would think they would have the foresight to write it down. LOL
Well we do agree on that. Except the thing is, I actually care about the wellbeing of people. You, on the other hand, are quite happy to lead people into a “business” that has little to no chance of working. One that most of the more intelligent for lack of a better word, have since left.
All that is left is people like yourself, who seem to be very clued in to the processes used in Scientology to brainwash people into believing a blatant lie.
Thankyou for that. Although you are attempting to rattle people here, it is extremely transparent.
You seem to forget how intelligent people are.
They will keep looking.
And this means they will look into the EMC…yourself….your business practices….and you won’t hear from them.
The amount of people that have left is staggering.
And utterly brilliant.
Nice try at deflection @truthbeknown though, 20 points for that 🙂
Have a super aweome day @truthbeknown 🙂 🙂
@iwonder – youre a poet.
Did you also know that the BBB.com in the states also classes LLI/PMG as a pyramid system
@alsothetruth No I didn’t, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I remember when I started and it just didn’t sit right with me. Trying to explain it to friends and family (all the while told by my “advisor” that I wasn’t to say anything at all) and them looking at me like I had gone mad when I said it wasn’t a pyramid scheme.
The new comp plan is no different. Only has a more confusing structure with supposed “retail benefits”. Of which, by the way, a few people still in the scam have not yet been paid, or paid far less than what they were led to believe.
It would be a good joke if it wasn’t so damn unfunny.
Oh- and to people reading- I have posted the link to the Department of Fair Trading site, it is just waiting for Oz to authorise.
So we are back to square one with ‘truthbeknown’.
Back to the same old rehashed mindnumbing drone that each and every one of PolarisMediaGroup distributors come up with on here. Nothing of significance is addressed as per usual.
Same company… does that mean the millions of dollars of lawsuits have been carried over to PMG from LLI?
Same products.. Now you’re just taking the p..s! What products? Lets hear what they are.. who wrote/produced them?? Who are the speakers at your ‘events'(what events??)? What do you get for your money?
Can you not see the point here?? If you had a legitimate company this information would be readily available. Legitimate companies present the product information up front. Why the need to direct them to a presentation???
Just the way Liberty League/Polaris Media do. They only include ‘active’ associates in the stats. If they included the hundreds of ‘inactive'(failed) associates the failure rate would be nudging the 90% mark… more than likely higher really.
My accountant will love this one!! Where do we sign up.. I soooo want to learn from your knowledge and leadership.
The standard scam artist retort to this is that the BBB is an independant service and has nothing to do with official regulatory bodies!… Yeah..ok…. so this means that they are making it up??!!??
Similar to how Liberty League classed the Dept.of Fair Trading in NSW….
Just about sums up their whole mentality.
‘Anything negative is made up/lies. Anything we say is right’
Know For Yourself.
Link to the DoFT page (again for truthbeknown)
truthbeknown just keep it going. You are strangling yourself with all your blab. You slipped into some bad energy and are trying to justify complete illogical nonsense. Wake up from your bad dream and crack open your brain. You are directing people to this blog???? Bet they are signing on in droves. Oh yes…people are smart enough to figure things out when given real information. For those directed here by truthbeknown: Wake up. There is much deceit. They will take your money and may restructure next week to something else and you will be left holding the bag.(your empty wallet) They will tell you that you did not read your compliance agreement. They will tell you that those who write on this blog have failed and are just experiencing “sour grapes”. The will tell you that there are negative posts about all successful companies. They will tell you they are “leaders” and “accountable”. They will tell you the products are superior and change lives. Well they have changed lives by taking much money and offering NOTHING REAL. They are amateurs in personal development, but are expert in manipulation. DO NOT BUY INTO THIS.
NSW can only state their opinion, this would have to be settled in a court of law. The NSW states this very clearly.
BBB in the states is no way related to a government entity. It is a for profit operation that gives a opinion based on money exchanged.
Most people that I direct through this process including this site have appreciated the transparency and several have made the decision to move forward.
Your accountant would agree with that statement 100%.
Same products- all 3 original products are still there. Beyond Freedom, Liberty Conf(Sovereignty), Summit Conference(Influence). The only other products are the DVD (already here), the 1 day event and the expanded version of the Beyond Freedom Program which both will launch beginning of Jan. But these are new products, the old ones are still there. The conferences were just rebranded.
Every network marketing company direct people to a presentation to get the details. As for upfront– the polaris website goes over the whole product line just like every other network marketing company.
“Same company… does that mean the millions of dollars of lawsuits have been carried over to PMG from LLI?”- Ofcourse they would come over a name change would not stop that process in the least.
You feel people have no chance of succeeding. I do not agree. I feel people have same chance at succeeding in this business as starting any other endeavor.
“Very clever though, as it gets your minions into the loop of feeling like they are surrounded by millionaires (which is also untrue, but feel free to prove otherwise @truthbeknown by form of a bank statement)”.- Precisely why these type of people had to go. Who do you think invented this “surrounded by millionaires” garbage? They are a couple of marketers who are millionaires because of LLI/PMG (and didn’t spend it all), but probably not the people you think.
HC– what bad energy are you talking about? The discussion on this blog is required. Without discussing the “negativity” (in the open, the company would not have evolved so quickly. So I welcome the “negativity”.
The compensation plan was changed to allow people to get started at any level, versus having to pay for the original, entry level product (Beyond Freedom) at a price of USD1495. Now they have the option of “buying in” at the Departure level or, at a minimum, buying just ONE unit of the Departure program. What I don’t see happening is a retail customer buying into a personal development program that they can’t afford at $2855 (Beyond Evolution Retail price) by purchasing each unit (3 units) of each module (3 – Departure, Decision, Action)…which will end up costing them more money in the long run, unless they become distributors.
Basically, the only customers you are selling to are going to be those who decide to become distributors who “buy in” in order to qualify to sell that product. And the distributor is still required to purchase the conferences in order to qualify to earn profit from those sales. In that respect, the new comp plan does not differ from the old comp plan.
God I am so over all this BS. It is a real shame that these idiots have done the whole subject of “personal development ” such a bad name. Conferences – what a crock of shit – I paid $us4000 to heard some guy for 3 hrs – I heard the same guy in Auckland recently for $us50!!
Its a con – a very elaborate con but still a con – no honest person would do this – and this is why so many of us have left and have an active interest in helping others not to be sucked in as we were by these production numbers – circus acts! My call is that they are still fleecing ppl until mid Jan – to move sideways into the Lavinea/Braxton/Rush scam that is being set up as we post. It STINKS
truthbeknown is obviously very adept at self delusion. It’s difficult to believe that s/he actually thinks the pmg way of doing business is anything other than a scam. Anybody falling for it, despite all the warnings, would need to have their head examined.
You still cannot dismiss that they are of the opinion that LibertyLeague/PMG is a pyramid selling scam.
Yeah.. failure rates mean nothing in business??? What are you on??
Failure rates, statistics, historical trends, projections etc., mean a hell of a lot in business. Grow up ffs.
Actually.. No it doesn’t. All you get is a brief description of nothing really. Still none the wiser as to who contributed to any of it. No event dates, locations, speakers. All smoke and mirrors designed to get you on the overview call where the hard sell starts.
Only the scams do this.. the ones that really have nothing to sell apart from garbage like yours.
I’ve often dealt with possibly one of the largest direct sales companies on the planet, a true network marketing company, what you see is what you get is what you pay for…. Dell. No overview call to participate in, no business presentation.. just a product described entirely down to the last component. You like it, you buy it…oh and guess what.. you get a twelve month guarantee on their product.. a full refund too should you be unhappy with the product.
What is your refund policy again??? Please tell me this one as it is seriously funny. Please, please tell.
You are quite good at deflecting away from actually providing answers to anything.. maybe you should consider a career as a politician.. you certainly have enough of the bs to be one!
What a load 🙂 I can just see it now:
New Recruit – “So the company is totally screwed, its made its profit from lies and ripping people off, there management and leaders are leaving in droves?”
truthbeknown – Yeah, its really cool, you should join!”
New Recruit – “Where do I sign up, can I pay cash!”
You’ve got to be joking, (in fact I think your lying) anyone you get that dumb, should join, infact send them my way, Ill just simply ask them for thousands of dollars, they’ll probably hand it over.
Again just truthbeknowns constant presence here shows the power this forum has over them.
truthbeknown.. place several hundred adds at a significant cost. Get ten responses, five of which are looking for a job and have no money, two of which provide a wrong contact number, two of which are foreign students who cant speak english and one that goes on to the business overview presentation and you never hear from them again… truthbeknown!
In the meantime you’ve wasted a whole 90 hour week either on the phone and/or placing adds.. your phone bill looks like your phone number.. your partner is wondering what the hell is wrong with you (you used to spend so much time together when you were normal) Your friends have stopped calling or dropping round.. the house is a mess.. the kids are gone feral…
truth be known indeed!
You guys miss me already. Funny how someone comes here and state a position contrary to yours and is instantly labelled delusional, a liar or naive. What do you think objective people will see when they read this thread? They will begin to understand who you people are and decide, “do I want to base my decisions on people who think and communicate this way”.
I am here to stay so I will address your comments later when I have some time.
Well that 90 hour work week would be a killer on your free time!
I just like spending my days with the family. Sorry but you’re not invited.
I have a couple of questions for @truthbeknown:
Can I deduce from this statement that you were a distributor earning a profit prior to the transition from Liberty League’s compensation model to the Polaris Media Group compensation model and that you are now a distributor generating a higher profit with Polaris Media Group? If so, I’m not asking you to reveal numbers, I would just like to know what kind of percentage gain you’re talking about here. Net Profit. I believe this should be a number easily extracted from your Profit/Loss Statement and your Balance Sheet.
This statement has me curious as I am deducing that you were actually around when Brent Payne, the “other founder” you reference was still involved in the company. You speak as if this statement is fact. Not your own personal opinion. As you might recall, the publicly released statement when he failed to show up at the conference in Acapulco was that he was taking a break to pursue his musical passion and ambitions. You’re talking as if you have first-hand knowledge of the closed door dealings involved in pushing Brent out of the company. Please clarify @truthbeknown, were you personally involved in Brent Payne’s removal from Liberty League, or are you just spreading rumors?
If you are indeed speaking first-hand of the facts surrounding Brent Payne’s departure (and not from rumor and innuendo) I would assume you were an active marketer when Brent was involved in the company, otherwise you would not have first-hand access to that information, which was only available to the EMC at the time. If were an active marketer generating a significant income stream, thereby granting you access to the facts surrounding Brent’s departure, how is it that you do not know Rachel Oliver personally?
“If I were marketing today I wouldn’t even have a website. I’d just place a bunch of newspaper ads and fliers.” Shane Krider
Are you kidding me? Liberty League’s most explosive growth came the year marketing moved to the internet. You, Shane, made a lot of money from internet marketers pushing your company. @truthbeknown please explain where you “place your ads” if not on the internet, which would require the use of a website/internet presence. Please, for the benefit of the skeptics on this site, please share with us the exact training and methodology you use to generate leads without the internet and also please explain to us why all the “top income earners” (like Lisa Molina and Rachel Oliver) are actually using the oh-so-unnecessary internet in their businesses? Better yet, please give us the name of one distributor generating at least a six figure income who has no internet presence. Just one name.
@truthbeknown, I am really confused now. Let’s see if I can add this up:
1. Shane Krider, Brent Payne and Ed Asiano write the original Beyond Freedom.
2. You state “You are misinformed— The original Beyond Freedom Product is a component of the Beyond Freedom Evolution Product so the testimonials apply.” I interpret this to mean that the original product written by Shane Krider, Brent Payne and Ed Asiano still exists and will continue to be sold in a modified or expanded format.
3. Shane Krider releases a formal and public statement acknowledging that he is a member of The Church of Scientology.
4. You state that the “products will speak for themselves” and “will not be what I expect”.
I’m confused @truthbeknown. In one statement you indicate the products are essentially the same as the testimonials for the old product and the new product are still applicable and relevant. And yet, you go on to state that the new products “will not be what I expect”. Except I own the original Beyond Freedom so I know what to expect, unless the new product is vastly different from the old product. And if that’s the case, how can my testimonial regarding the old product be applicable to the new product?
It’s also been made public that the new products were written by Shane Krider and John Lavenia. Are you stating that the products have been rewritten since the departure of John Lavenia to exclude any possible Scientology references, terminology or technology? Or is it possible that the new rewritten products will now be attributed to ghost authors in order to avoid the now public connection between Shane Krider, John Lavenia and The Church of Scientology?
Would you be willing to have the product line publicly examined by someone familiar with the teachings of The Church of Scientology in order to stand by your claim that they have not dragged the religion in to the business?
I will also deduce that since the original Beyond Freedom is still a component of the new Beyond Freedom product lines that royalties will still be paid out to the original authors Brent Payne and Ed Asiano.
Thank you, @truthbeknown, for your response.
I don’t think answering questions with actual answers is part of his/her mo.
Good post RT.
Matt, is this you?
RT are you an attorney?? Great questions. Truthbeknown put himself/herself on trial and cannot answer without a convoluted programmed responses
Truthbeknown, you did not take my advise to crack open your brain. I posted BAD energy, not negative. Educate yourself in some Science or Logic. Positive and negative just exist. Amateurs in personal development, like those training you, use the term incorrectly as you did. The BAD energy you are caught up in is about manipulation and deceit. Personal development must include kindness, conscience, and the realization of community (that its not all about you). Beyond Freedom was on the right track and then the founders got caught up in ego and money, money, money. We all want to prosper, but calling yourself a “personal development/leadership company” when all the calls are mostly about $$$ is very transparent. Certainly not a product driven company. Overpriced, overhyped conferences that were supposed to bring one into the company of high integrity millionaires (“mastermind with millionaires” constantly hawked) could not produce because there were no masterminds there. Plus they could not even serve high quality food. Again if you are one of the prospects truthbeknown is directing to this blog,(if his/her earlier claim has even a shred of truth) keep reading….if you get involved you deserve claiming truthbeknown as a leader.
As for LLI being labeled a pyramid scheme by NSW, that was an opinion not a fact. This would have to go to a court of law to determine this and if it ever did, it would not be found to be a pyramid scheme.
Are you REALLY that disconnected from the processes of Government in this country? The *determination* by the DoFT is not something that can just be shrugged off. This is not Choice magazine saying it’s poor value for money, it’s an arm of the AG Department formally stating that the LLI business model is unlawful in this country.
The apparent response by LLI was not to take it to court, but duck and cover, followed by denial and drivel, vacuous threats, followed by character assasination, pathetic dirty cyber tricks, hiring a PR firm, drivel roboposters, you name it; anything except being right up front and centre for the simple reason that the DoFT is right.
So the $3 dvd comment is your opinion.
I took this to mean the item cost, which is about right per unit for a short run of perhaps 500-1000 CD’s or DVD’s including case, and often includes a simple liner if you provide the camera-ready artwork.
Peacock? Okay, Turkey. Or maybe Goose. How about Galah?
Interesting points about franchises.
and them looking at me like I had gone mad when I said it wasn’t a pyramid scheme
It would be a good joke if it wasn’t so damn unfunny.
You’re far from alone here. The mind has a very curious capacity to be coldly logical in one part, and filled with utter balderdash in another, often without the two colliding.
the kids are gone feral
ROFL – very graphic :))
Mate, don’t hurry back.
I am sure you feel the need to comment on here as this site along with others has severely altered your lazy way of making a living.
I’m sure you are very busy scamming people (or attempting to) to bother yourself with trivial minions like our good selves. LOL
PS: How much does it suck that your “revolutionary” idea hasn’t worked? LOLOLOLOL……
I really wanted to hang out with a person with no moral grounding today..
I guess I will have to find something else to do… *sigh*
Can’t wait for you to address the questions above 🙂
Wow…..all I can say is pot…kettle…black.
Are you that naive or have you missed the fact that PMG does this daily?
Perhaps you need an education in how your “company” operates?
Feel free to ask for advice 🙂
I appreciate the numbering of your questions. I will attempt to answer them the best I can: (excuse any grammatical errors)
Q1- On the front end of the compensation plan the net profit is the same. The lower upfront commissions are made up by more volume of the lower price options not available before. So on the front end of the comp plan is the same. In LLI complan I experience 1000% return on my advertising money. So 1 dollar/pound in – 10to11 dollars/pound out. The same for me in front end of the new comp plan. Now on the back end of the old comp plan, there was never really any backend unless you were a churn and burn advocate. If you qualified people yourself, no pass up sales. So now, in the new comp plan, one receives overrides on everything your organization does, repeat purchases etc… . I would require a few more months to quantify that. But that is pure profit with no advertising outlay. So there is more income to be made on the new plan.
Q2- All I can say about this is that it has been my personal experience that his vision was never about making big changes that would rock the boat no matter if it was required for the expansion of the company. Its about risk, and making big changes is risky. And putting your butt on the line when “you don’t have to” is a challenge.
Q3- Rachael is relatively new on the scence. And I stated before, many people just faded into the background because of the culture and practices of some people involved in the company before her success.
Q4- Not having a website does not mean you cannot use the power of the internet. Aside from their being many other mediums outside the internet to generate leads. The “old” school principles you learn from Dan Kennedy, Jay Abraham, Jeff Paul etc… work extremely well with or without the internet. I can place a editorial type ad on a internet site and direct people to call me directly or to a 800 number or call in service to get there information. I can place a simple classified type ad on the interent and direct people to a 800# where they can request a report to be post mailed to them and follow up with them a week later. Post card mailings to very specific demographics that lead them to a 800 number that leads them to a special report that leads them to calling you. Where this ad or adcopy is placed is irrelevant, they all can be done and from my experience should be done without a website, no competition. People are bombarded with information on their fingertips all day long, it is refreshing to have a slower paced process with a real person on the other end not trying to hard close you from the onset of the process. All this is reviewed in detail in materials authored by the people above. I also do personal contact/referral marketing, 0 cost – pure profit. Newspaper classifieds, television, direct mailing of sales letters,etc..
Why didn’t the emc or other leaders do or teach this? They actually did and most of the income records a while back where made outside the internet. But overtime as people started coming from the internet the perception grew that the outside of the internet was difficult and internet was easy. And most are not very good at marketing anyway because you do not have to be.
There have been multiple six figure producers with no website, I will not mention them out of respect of their privacy and not being the focus of this conversation.
The path of least resistance gets the most attention. The website on the internet route started getting the most attention opening up opportunities for others in other mediums.
1- yes: i own a few copies myself
2-my understanding is that the beyond freedom evolution will be the original beyond freedom program broken up into 3 parts and expanded into more detail in each part. The original bf is like a summation / overview- the evolution will be a in-depth look of these principles.
3-Yes he did.
Was there a public announcement that the products would be written by them or just an assumption? What I say about this does not matter, just wait 3 weeks for the program to come out and see for yourself.
Royalties- would not know this information.
The only products in question is the Beyond Freedom Evolution program and the one day event(which will follow the same principles of the other conferences which have not changed) all the others products are available. Have the Know For Yourself DVD evaluated.
I would be willing to have the product line publicly examined by an expert in Scientology as long as it was also publicly examined by experts in the Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist faiths. Scientology does not own the universal principles of happiness, prosperity, etc..
FYI. truthbeknown The universal principals of happiness do not need to be examined by any religion, nor does any one religion need to claim ownership. Those principals can be learned and experienced by anybody directly without a guru or “advisor”. …and really the only way is to “Know for Yourself”. An atheist or agnostic may also choose to have the experience. Its one we were all born with, it really cannot be “sold”. Good Luck!
Its funny when we in Australia NEED WATER THEY ARE BUILDING WATER PARK IN CAIRNS.
Congratulations @truthbeknown, you are truly the most arrogant person on here in quite a while.
Q: (seeing as you can’t seem to keep away I am sure you will be able to answer this)- If this website is having no impace…why are you here so much? Just you? All of the other “defernders” of this Pyramid Scheme (yes our NSW DoFT does matter, however much “leaders” in the USA like yourself ignore it) seem to have disappeared?
Please let us know how well PMG is doing now, as I am sure you would have access to all of the figures would you not?
And are you going to supply some proof of your income, or conveniently ignore the question like you did last time?
Have a great day 🙂
Oh, please excuse spelling errors @truthbeknown, and have a super awesome day scamming people and blatantly lying 🙂
News just in: Another 2 aquaintances have just left. Great to see this webite along with others is continuing to open the channels of communication which PMG does not allow.
Pound? 800 number?
Now I think I see why you don’t see the DoFT statment as seriously bad news.
I would be willing to have the product line publicly examined by an expert in Scientology as long as it was also publicly examined by experts in the Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist faiths. Scientology does not own the universal principles of happiness, prosperity, etc..
Your absurd and unworkable conditions are noted (as SoP).
Mind you, it might be quite interesting to hear what experts in each of those faiths had to say about the *personal developmental* and *ethical* aspects and values expressed in the products.
Christ tended to be a bit Bolshie about mammon, Islam might see ‘passing-up’ as forbidden interest (and issue a fatwah). A Buddist might think Associates have their noses in the dirt with their total self-absorption in the material world, paying only lip-service to the spiritual. A Sufi might say that your greed has got you by the balls.
Maybe the reason the the DOFT statement isn’t ‘seriously bad news’ is that it clearly doesn’t ‘declare’ LLI/PMG as a pyramid scheme. Go read the statements again. All of it. Not just the bits you want to read.
“Ms Judge said the promotional material of a marketing scheme known as Liberty League may potentially breach the Fair Trading Act.”
May and potentially, two perhaps words in one sentence. Definitely not a declaration.
And in case that wasn’t clear;
“Ultimately it is for a court to determine if Liberty League is a pyramid selling scheme,” Ms Judge said.
Same thing can be found in the letter Oz received. Right under the sentence where they have received legal advice – again not a declaration – they said they do not act as a legal something or other and to seek your own counsel and contact ACCC (not to sure, it seems to be gone now).
Great discussion, just seems that LLI/PMGers don’t seem to be the only ones with blinkers on.
And James Arthur Ray is not the author of ‘The Secret’.
Yes it does get a little difficult when things aren’t numbered.
I was nearly convinced that you were genuinely a business person until you made this freakishly thick arrogant statement. You should apply to the guiness book of records as I feel you may well hold a world record there.
If you need a few months to quantify this then how can your statement be true
How is there zero cost in personal contact? Time is money?? follow up costs?? What is your advertising spend per month??
Don’t forget your 1000% profit figure……
Why on earth would you need to own a few copies??
Sounds like you’re selling something that you’re not quite sure about.. is that not fraud?? Who wrote the evolution series that doesn’t yet exist but is being sold by you all??
Where and when is the next one day event and who are the speakers? What about the next conference? Location? Speakers?
No.. they just think they do!
@moniker ……. why bother
Truthbeknown: Keep up the positive affirmations. Its a fact if you keep telling yourself it will work your brain will believe it. We will be here when your world comes tumbling down.
Who knows? Why bother polluting a well formed argument with facts?
Just seems if it’s as bad as it seems, there’s enough legitimate factors. No need to use inaccurate statements to prove your case
Actually I meant why would the DOFT bother to mention LibertyLeague at all if everything was rosy with them … you need to stop assuming what people are saying and get your head out of your ass.
Sorry it was hard to draw that from two words. Given your obvious stance on the situation I took the best guess I could. My head isn’t in my ass, cheers for the advice tho. Mature.
I’m not saying everything is rosy with LLI or PMG, (that’s an assumption on your part) just pointing out that DoFT has never actually declared them as a pyramid scheme like has been said numerous times. It gets in the way when it keeps getting thrown into the conversation.
Maybe their standard procedure for when they get a lot of queries regarding a certain company, like they would have from this blog, is to issue a statement and a general warning. Or they could be looking at some stuff behind closed doors, no idea, that’s just guessing again.
It seemed to me like the doft’s stance was maybe it is, maybe it isn’t go take it up with someone else. oh, and stay away from pyramid schemes they are bad, we will slap you big time.
Only way to get a better answer would be to take to the recommended authorities.
Ooops.. apologies.. should have read what I wrote before submitting comment!
You can leave your head where it is for now.
Abother delusional one. sigh.
Who cares if it isn’t proven in court that it is a Pyramid Scheme? The fact that it has been labelled one would put off any SMART entrepreneur…hence why it is going to crap and people like yourself are posting here.
If something is labelled a Pyramid Scheme, by an official body, SMART people will avoid it like the plague.
This “business” is so unbelievably shoddy and cheap….the events are an absolute joke from what I have heard from the poor people who attended (now literally). I attended Super Saturday or whatever it was called….An overhyped event set to showcase the new Scientology movement, with speakers who are mostly now long gone. Crappy cheap lunch….extremely poor content…leaving many confused but still buzzed by the hype until it wore off. Much like a clothing store where they play dance music in order to lift people’s mood, but then you walk out thinking “Why did I buy that???”.
Shane Krider has buggered up bigtime and he knows it. He is now being laughed at by people from LLI. Literally.
Poeple will be angry if you sidestep and push YOUR “religion” on them. Fact. Wake up and smell the coffee.
You are just another arrogant PMG’er who does not care about ripping people off. Seen and heard it all before.
That’s where “moniker” seems to do all of their thinking.
Well put 🙂
On a general note: Heard a great comment the other day:
“You cannot argue or reason with a Scientologist, if you could, there would be no Scientology…”
@iwonder – yes you are so right about the conferences. I went to the Bahama for a summit. The first day I just got angry – listening to Racheal Oliver stand in her $5000 boots on stage say “I love you guys..” yeah right – should have been “I love you guys money” Joe Dispenza was awesome however – BUT I apid $us12000 for the conference – excluding airfares and accomodation and meals – so Joes day was $us4000. IN Aug09 I paid $nz70 for the same presentation. Im not wanting to deminish Joe at all- he is brilliant – but this speaks for itself. As for the Liberty in Acapulco – the speakers were crap – I wouldnt have paid $70 to see either of them.
Supersaturday Aug just pissed me off – I got so angry I walked out before the end of it – the part where “leader” the ungreat Delwyn McKenzie was showing yellowed hands from a Oliver look alike attempt. The only amusing thing the whole day was Lynn MacFarlan-Smith offer to her of pink gloves. It wasnt a conf at all – it was a product launch and we got taken in to pay $350 to be there – what a bloody con. I knew then just how much I had been taken in – the rest of histroy. We did however enjoy the trips to Mexico and the Bahamas with my family – but as it turns out this “business” has taken a far greater toll on my families longer term financial stablisity than the benefits of the travel.
another seminar , crikey they’re expensive!@!!!!!!!!
“Foundation Live is an inspiring 1 day motivational workshop with inspiring presentations on how to succeed in life, in relationships and in business. For many, this event is the first time they meet the people they have learned from and worked with on their Beyond Freedom Evolution™ journey. Held regionally, attendees gain confidence and self reliance while making new like-minded friends. This event could be the best investment you ever made for yourself and your family.
oooops meant to say this ones at the Gold Coast in January
speaker is Scott Burrows
what a crock – who is going to do this – some poor suckers who are all keyed up by these conartist flash talk …I feel for them……….
Because ……, why bother? is such a descriptive sentence. I can see now by re reading it, makes perfect sense.
And iwonder, that’s the point I’m making. it hasn’t been labelled by a government body. It’s been said it MAY be. quite different. That said a government body saying something MAY be a pyramid scheme is enough to send people running.
Pretty much everything else are valid points, which is why I don’t see the need to keep referencing that it has been declared/labelled a pyramid scheme by any sort of australian authority, when it clearly hasn’t. There’s so many more points which are true to use.
And the head in ass comments, calling me delusional… If someone claiming the side of LLI were to do the same it would be called scientology tactics, attacking the other party, etc.
@Moniker – having you defend this scam makes ppl angry.! You are so blind you cannot see the truth,. Whoever charged you up to this, and they are very good at it, has pulled your blinkers down. I guarantee you will be taking a quite different stance in under six months. So ferk off and be flenced – you will get no help from this forum.
So what? Do you really need the government to tell you what’s right and wrong? You can’t work out for yourself what’s going on?
If after reading all these comments you still think it’s a good investment, then you deserve to lose your money…which is exactly what will happen. Have fun!
Far out. I don’t need the goverment to tell me, I don’t come here for help, and I haven’t defended the company that you all love to hate.
All I have said is that the government has not declared it a pyramid scheme. Which is true.
And the reason why I’ve said is because there is people saying it has been declared, which is not true.
As vince says so what? figure it out for yourself, good advice, but if half the comments are using the untruth of that instead of the other obvious and true ammo laying around the place doesn’t say much about the arguments.
I didn’t say anything the first twenty or so times it got used, but who are you trying to convince by pretending the government has declared it a pyramid scheme.
Know for yourself
Liberty League International RIP 08/09/2009
Moniker – I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything…I’ll sleep fine either way. I’ve already said that anyone who reads all these comments and still decides to invest in Polaris Media Group will lose their money, and they will deserve it too, regardless of whether the Government has officially declared it a pyramid scheme.
I might also add that when people DO realise it’s a pyramid scheme, only 1% of them have had the balls to come back to this website and admit they were wrong, which is why you hear little about it from people involved who been burned.
I’m not good at reading it seems, can you bold the part in that where LLI is declared a pyramid scheme?
ferk LLI and ferk PMG – this is all a bloody great waste of time and effort – IM over it 100%.
These scammers will continue acting like irresponsible conartist which is axcatly what they are and ppl will be sucked in to their own destruction
That is simply the truth
GOOD LUCK TO ALL
Its the head in the ass thing again!
The whole statement is in bold and it should be clear to anyone with their head in the right place that Minister Virginia Judge views Liberty League as a pyramid scheme.
As I said… know for yourself… if you cannot see the warning here you are beyond help.
The fact that Liberty League and their business model was shutdown almost overnight might be another clue.
You really have to concentrate hard now……
@truthbeknown, while I appreciate your thoughtful responses, I still must point out some significant gaps in your rationale:
I just can’t help but deduce that while you may genuinely expect the new Polaris Media Group’s compensation plan to work out for you, you have no hard and fast financial data as of yet to prove it. We’re coming to the close of the 4th quarter 2009 and the new compensation plan was launched in September 2009 which means nearly 1/4 of this fiscal year has passed since the new compensation plan was introduced. You should have a clear financial picture by now that would enable you to compare your financials from first, second and third quarters 2009 with 4th quarter 2009.
You must understand that without proof, you are merely presenting paper profits and that true business people tend to shy away from speculative returns being presented as fact. I believe Bernard Madoff is spending the rest of his life in jail for just that type of fraud.
So, without hard numbers you must understand that the rest of us will simply take your claims that the “comp plan is working out for you” as just more of the same hype we’ve come to expect from Liberty League and Polaris Media Group over the years.
Even if all the “dead weight” is gone, it would appear that their MO of hype and inflated claims is still alive and well within Polaris Media Group.
Please, please, please tell us who wrote the new Beyond Freedom products? If not someone in Polaris or a Scientologist, who wrote them?
Because Shane Krider, one of the original authors of Beyond Freedom, has openly declared himself a Scientologist. If the Beyond Freedom product has changed so little that the same testimonials given for the original Beyond Freedom product would still apply, I do not understand how Shane’s input could have completely stripped from the product in order to support your assertion that Beyond Freedom Evolution has not been written by anyone within Polaris or Scientology. Please explain.
I do understand that you genuinely want and need to distance Polaris Media Group from Scientolgy. After all, most people looking deeper at getting started with a business opportunity are usually looking for a reason not to get started and the Scientology connection is a pretty good one for a lot of people.
I’m a car guy, so let’s put this comment in to a context I understand. Let’s say Beyond Freedom is like a Jaguar XJ8. I happen to be in the market today for a 2010 Jaguar XJ8. Do I go to Consumer Reports or MotorTrend magazine for a review on the 2004 Jaguar XJ8 when I’m doing my research on the 2010 Jaguar XJ8? Absolutely not. Why? Because the reviews on the 2004 vehicle are not applicable to the 2010 vehicle even though they may share the same name.
You can’t have it both ways @truthbeknown. Either the 2004 Beyond Freedom is the same product and the reviews/testimonials still apply, or the 2010/2011 “model” of Beyond Freedom is different/expanded/broken apart (however you want to put it) thereby making it a whole different vehicle and the testimonials/reviews do not apply.
It really would appear Polaris Media Group and the remnant of loyal distributors are actively picking and choosing what they like (old product testimonials and income testimonials from a compensation plan that does not exist anymore) and ignoring the uncomfortable bits. Really you must understand, @truthbeknown, we’d all have much more respect for the lot of you if someone there would simply acknowledge that Polaris Media Group is a whole new company with a whole new compensation plan and a whole new product line and simply state “we sure hope you make money and you like the products but, honestly, we just don’t know yet”.
“One more thing. We want you to become a Scientologist too.”
Now that would be speaking the truth.
I understand your urge to cast the net wide, but you’re missing the point. To the best of my knowledge you must pay money to actively participate in the auditing and courses required to be considered an active “member” of the Scientology “religion”. I do not believe any of the other religions you referenced require money to be paid upfront in order to participate in worship services or classes. Sure, many of those religions exist because of donations so there is certainly an exchange of money involved at some level, but I do not believe one can participate in Scientology and climb the ranks without spending money, while you certainly can participate in the other religions you referenced without an outlay of cash.
You fail to understand why this is significant for Polaris Media Group and its product lines. Most religions give their theology away. Scientology makes a fortune charging for it. Polaris Media Group also stands to make a fortune by feeding its distributors in to the Scientology machine. That’s why it matters if the content, principles, technology and teachings of the new Beyond Freedom are rooted in Scientology.
If the products are examined and proven to be “clear” of any Scientology teachings, technology, lingo, etc. then there should be nothing to worry about.
I’ll admit it. This comment shocked me.
If a Polaris Media Group distributor doesn’t have to be good at marketing, exactly what skillset do they have to acquire in order to be successful?
Because I would contend that the #1 reason associates/distributors leave Liberty League and Polaris Media Group over the years is because at least 95% of them never made a profit and the reason they never made a profit was because they couldn’t generate enough leads. And because they couldn’t generate enough leads they weren’t able to book enough prospects on the conference calls. And because they couldn’t book enough prospects on the conference calls they couldn’t make consistent sales pop out the other end. And because they couldn’t make consistent sales they wound up with a net loss in their business.
So, I would deduce that they would up with a net loss in their business because they couldn’t really master cost-effective marketing in order to generate leads.
And the reason they couldn’t really master cost-effective marketing is because Liberty League didn’t teach it and apparently, thanks to @truthbeknown’s response on this site, they still aren’t teaching it because “you don’t have to be good at it.”
Here is my assessment, @truthbeknown. You are so committed to guarding your belief system and your “energy” that you cannot consider that this argument is unwinnable because those of us you are arguing with have a completely different perspective. MANY of us have been in your shoes before. We saw the Liberty League opportunity. We heard the income testimonials. We heard the product testimonials. We were told “just place a few pre-written ads and call people back and you too could make a six figure income working from home”. We joined. We spent thousands of dollars on the products and the conferences. We believed. We were excited.
But then something happened. I suspect it was something different for each of us. A net loss in our business. Shady backroom dealings. Inauthentic leaders. Hype. Lack of integrity. Crappy conferences. Double standards. Whatever our experiences were, it caused each of us to stop and look at the other side of the coin. And that makes all the difference. You see, you are only looking at Polaris Media Group and its predecessor Liberty League from one angle or viewpoint. We have all seen it as you see it (“I’m your #1 Fan!) but we’re now also seeing it from the outside, another perspective. We have the benefit of observation from two angles or viewpoints. Apparently you only have one. Until you can consider and openly acknowledge the validity of the concerns that have been raised on this, and other forums, blogs, websites, etc. you will continue to operate with only 50% of the complete story.
So what can we say contributes to your reading comprehension and assumptions of Minister Judge’s position on the company? And of course LLI rip 8/9/09 tends to happen with a name change. More like LLI change to PMG 8/9/09. Not as dramatic tho I spose.
To me know for yourself doesn’t mean Read what you want to read and draw conclusions about what you don’t.
Commendations to RT, nice post and questions without resorting to personal abuse.
Exactly. What I see is Minister Judge warning people off Liberty League International. What you see maybe something different which, in my opinion, means you need to get your head out of your ass. Just my opinion though.
Yes.. nice post RT. Wise words:
Absolutely spot on RT.
I suggest truthbeknown come back in six months and let us know how they are travelling with PMG.
Excellent post RT – you pretty much described my experience with LLI/PMG!
1- Like I mentioned above the front end of the current compensation plan is the same as the front end of the previous compensation plan as for net profit. With the back end (residual) part of the compensation plan I prefer to provide numbers based on business acquired after 9/9/09. That would provide a more accurate picture. The new customers and distributors during this last 1/4 would be making their first time purchases and a longer time frame is required to capture the numbers on how repeat purchases of products and duplication of distributors will be. So the first 1/4 of the new complan would not be an adequate time frame to truly give you those numbers. And I feel it would not be a fair representation to bring out fiqures of my current customer and distributor base, established before 9/9/09.
2- All the testimonials and reviews are all on the Beyond Freedom Program, which is still being sold. There are no testimonials or reviews on the Beyond Freedom Evolution Program or its parts. Please direct me to any that are not for the Beyond Freedom Program. This seems to be a source of confusion.
3- As for the Beyond Freedom Evolution product having anything to do with Scientology, the best approach to answering this question is to wait until the product is launched . In the meantime, from my first hand experience and the experience of specific people very familiar with Scientology, having reviewed the DVD and attended the 1st Sovereignty Conference in Puerto Rico – I don’t see any relation. The people very familiar with Scientology don’t see a relation. On the contrary, the basic principles are in direct opposition to the principles and mindset of Scientology. Totally different approach on many aspects.
4-You do not require to be a great or good marketer to succeed in a business like this. You can be a mediocre marketer who markets consistently with some common sense money management and make a consistent profit. The information is in the numbers. I define a great marketer who can generate a consistent profit with a business that has an customer lifetime value of under 150 dollars and can leverage that into a multimillion dollar business with volume and then consistently figures out a way to increase the lifetime value of the customer. The lifetime value in LLI was 4k on the conservative side, with no real residual. So, inorder to make a profit your acquisition cost had to be under 4k. That is a lot of room for a marketer. 400 dollars per acquisition was very obtainable. For some it was less for others more. Even at 1,000 per acquisition, you are looking at a 400% return on your advertising dollar.
5- As for my viewpoint. I have had a few viewpoints.
1.as a new person
2.as a successful person
3.as not being a fan of the company due to changing culture and decisions at the time
4.as an observer
I can only speak from my experience about your concerns. The reason that I am here sharing my views is because I feel people’s concerns should be addressed.
6- I am a business person, I have had many concerns. I chose to get my concerns addressed in a different way.
7- Rod’s suggestion of coming back in 6 months to see where we are at is a good idea.
Yeah right. What a load of shit!
Let’s be serious here…the average person attracted to the idea of Polaris couldn’t spell to save their life, let alone know anything about marketing. This has been proven time and time again on this website and other forums.
These are the same people who are completely irresponsible when it comes to handling a credit card, not to mention being gullible enough to believe that they can generate a 6-figure income sitting at some beach working 20 hours per week, with no marketing skills. Polaris Media Group preys on these people to keep their wallets full.
The only people who succeed in this business are scum of the earth like Rachael Oliver who would steal from/lie to/defraud/dupe their own family and friends just to get ahead in life.
truthbeknown- you’re full of crap.
Re 2 – Listen to the testimonials on the Australian business presentation calls – they consistently refer to Beyond Freedom Evolution
Any chance of telling us the authors of Beyond Freedom Evolution? Anyone know?
Let us know when you address some of them.
Truthbeknown: “you do not have to be a good marketer to succeed at a business like this” You are right . You have to consistently spread your word and you will catch what you need to feather your nest. The 93% who figure out that there is really no viable product to interest others or cannot consciously continue in a business that really offers nothing will fall by the wayside with their wallets much lighter. You will continue without conscience to market and catch more naive or gullible fish and trick yourself into believing that those who left are “negative” or “failures”. Eventually if you stick around until the company finds another front, you will have to do it all over again in the next “opportunity” after the “dead weight” is eradicated. There really is not any long lasting opportunity here. You are most likely to burn out or become very transparent making it harder to get others to believe you. Or if you are a completely unscrupulous “business” person, you may find yourself in a position like Bernie Madoff. It can work for a long time, but eventually it WILL catch up. Things that have no value always do….in time.
Yeah right. What a load of crap!
Let’s be serious here…the average person attracted to the idea of Polaris couldn’t spell to save their life, let alone know anything about marketing. This has been proven time and time again on this website and other forums.
These are the same people who are completely irresponsible when it comes to handling a credit card, not to mention being gullible enough to believe that they can generate a 6-figure income sitting at some beach working 20 hours per week, with no marketing skills. Polaris Media Group preys on these people to keep their wallets full.
The only people who succeed in this business are scum of the earth like Rachael Oliver who would steal from/lie to/defraud/dupe their own family and friends just to get ahead in life.
truthbeknown- you’re full of crap.
Plenty of good sense in your post, Vince. Despite truthbeknown’s long winded pseudo philosophical attempt to justify the scam, the simple fact remains that this “business” has been created to line the pockets of those at the top of the pyramid, at the expense of the newbies. Madoff’s enterprise did exactly the same thing to people who should have known better. Madoff stole millions, but the thousands of dollars stolen from lots of Australians scammed by the likes of Oliver and McKenzie mean just as much to their families this Christmas.
ah – the two blond bimbos – Oliver and McKenzie
Speaking of McKenzie, here is a comment by a concerned polarite on the ning network:
Matt – I would join a class action to get my money back from LLI if you have identified a lawyer who is prepared to take up the case.
I contacted LLI before the changeover to PMG and they never got back to me – dodgy dodgy dodgy.
Rachel Oliver barely finished Year 10 – I am not sure how much she knows about the law??? She sure as hell shouldn’t be threatening people – hypocrite!
Oz, apologies for multiple posts. Have been reading back over the hive of activity your site has generated and subsequently have more and more comments to make! It’s been awhile since I’ve had the chance to check back and it’s well and truly my bedtime.
You have successfully helped to prevent more people from getting scammed with LLI/PMG, I just wanted to put some other names out there to steer away from:
* Michael and Arni Berry – wish I could sue the pants off them
* Kaz and Melinda Spence – sucked me into the whole thing in the first place
At the time I joined LLI, Rachel and Delwyn were rising the top. I’m glad I woke up to myself like so many others and got out. Am so glad I never ripped anyone off and that my integrity won out over this ‘cultish’ organisation.
Now that all their leads and naive newbies coming through are fast drying up, how are they going to even be able to make an income now their names are tarnished? Rachel will have a hard time getting a waitressing job with the name she’s created for herself.
Am so glad I have gone down the road of real integrity and gotten my life together after what was the worst time of my life – being in LLI – and my life is better than ever! I have a great job and am starting a legitimate business – note the word ‘legitimate’ not some dodgy pyramid – and life is on the up and up.
Truthbeknown – your comments seem so drone-like to me. Are you going to fess up and come clean about your connection to PMG and who you are? I don’t know much about Scientology, but I know most people in PMG ‘at the top’ – I don’t call them leaders because they’re not – are downright hypocrites! It’s so scary how you purport ideas like robots, but have no integrity or compassion for people whatsoever. Rachel, Michael and Arni amongst others are just downright nasty, selfish people who have A LOT to learn about basic integrity and treating people with respect.
Someone mentioned that it’s sad PMG has given personal development a bad name and I agree. However, personal development is alive and well, it just doesn’t have to be about money solely. I still work on personal development every day and aim to become a better and better person all round. Doing ‘whatever it takes’ (gotta love that LLI/PMG slogan!) is not about personal development, it’s about fleecing money from people.
Those ‘at the top’ of LLI/PMG would have to be the least genuine people I’ve ever come across and it’s sad I’m less trusting of people after getting caught up in it all – biggest regret of my life!
It’s sad LLI/PMG had to copy all their quotes from personal development greats, but those of us who truly love personal development will hold onto the true meaning of those wise words.
Ok, enough said for now, sorry again Oz for three posts and this essay.
One more thing – Matt, I am happy for Oz to give you my email address if you think there is a class action case likely to happen? I couldn’t find your Facebook group – does it still exist?
Night all, keep spreading the word, only wish there was something out there like this when I got sucked in. Main thing is we’re helping others who are as trusting as we once were…
Yes it appears the Kaz and Melinda Spence dream con team strike again. She on the move looking for more victims to support her fancy lifestyle and cars.
Yeah.. looks like PolarisMediaGroup is sooooo lucruative that she is having to move on to plan B. Poor Kaz!
Looks like Mel has the same plan. Note her bio where she is making out that this ‘new business’ has funded a lifestyle of travel and adventure eventhough she’s only been in this scam a wet week.
Looks like somepeople don’t want us to know their affiliate links to TVI Express…. wonder why advertise it on twitter then Kaz?? twitter.com/wildlywealthy
Talking of Michael Berry – As an ex PMGer I received this hillarious email from the above mentioned … talk about trying to rub it in .. I know of people who are not even on his team getting this email … how desperate are they!!
I”ve got some very exciting news to share with you. This has been the most fantastic 2 days of my life. Yesterday the private screening of Kids with Cameras, which was absolutely awesome. Autistic kids will be looked at in an entirely different way after viewing this movie. PMG is making a hugh difference in the World.
Now for the second part of my exciting news. Last night some of the EMC (those of us living in LA or staying over after the screening) were invited over to Shane’s house for a first ever look at Beyond Freedom Departure. All I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW it’s incredible. No one has produced anything like this in the personal development business. Don Sliver put it best when he said Departure makes things like The Secret and even our Beyond Freedom original look like the dictionary and Departure is the Encyclopedia. If someone does not learn how to truly depart from the masses after watching this they never will. I almost feel sorry for the people that have left the company. I have never been so excited in my life. A thought just occurred to me. My comparison of everything and I do mean everything that has been produced so far in the personal development arena is the Sketch and Departure is the Blueprint. Can’t wait to get my hands on it.
Thank you Shane.
Happy Holidays to all of you. Let’s make 2010 the best year in your life so far.
2010 absolutely will be WITHOUT PMG in business!!
It looks like plan B has failed miserably too (what’s plan C?) as I get an “ERROR – No Affiliate Site Found with that ID” ID for Melinda and Kaz’s planB pages.
All I can say is I’m glad I have a box seat (BehindMLM/Whirlpool) of seeing PMG crash and burn.
Mr Bean , it Merry Xmas , not happy bloody holidays , at Xmas time there are holidays why ???? to celebrate the birth of Christ, thats why there are xmas holidays , so everyone say after me
“Merry Xmas ”
you can shove the this happy holidays crap ………
@douglas – not everyones buys into the Jesus born at Christmas story. Its a Solstic festival – more merry due to to much of a good red ….
Yeah.. looks like Melinda and Kaz aren’t ready for us all to know they’ve gone to TVI Express yet…. maybe they’re waiting ’till they get their Christmas bonus from PMG before oficially announcing their departures?!?!
Happy solstice everyone!
I haven’t posted in a while and thought I would pop by and check out the news…
Loving the writing all over the bandit signs. Well done whoever that was.
On the note of advertising- I have seen very little plastered over the net? ie: Social networking sites etc.
Seems to me that people are plain embarassed about being involved.
My advice is to eat some cement and own up to the FACT that you made a very very poor decision. I have.
Then move on and stop being so freakn LAZY and get a job!!
(This comes from frustration at people in PMG that I know who are leaching off the government whilst waiting for their business to “take off”. Ah hello- it’s been a year I don’t think its gonna happen.)
I realise that these types of people will just go on to the next scam and lose more money, but its still slightly irritating.
I’m an ex-LLIer and I want a refund from the scam artists Michael and Arni Berry and Melinda Spence who all sucked me in!
Matt – If you are still around can you hook me and others up with the lawyers too so we can all join a class action.
Oz, I wouldn’t want to get you in any ‘hot water’ but could you start a new thread centred around class action against LLI/PMG? Then those who want to be involved could put their hands up and we could all connect.
My concern is I want a refund from LLI but they don’t exist anymore – what can I do? Where is Ralph Nader QC when I need his advice?! Can those of us who joined LLI now PMG join with those who were scammed by PMG? Surely joining together would make our case stronger?
Any suggestions would be much appreciated…
Hot water aside, I’d need something to go on. OzSoapbox is a bit different to a forum in that I write articles as opposed to creating threads.
Due to the format of the blog I can’t really just create a thread about a class action without something more to go on.
I’ll join you guys as well. I’ve also requested a refund on ALL loses and intend to take this further if I do not receive a response. Carla would be great to get in contact with you??
Just to let you know, I’m an ex LLIer so we are all entitled to refunds. I’ve also contacted the Fair trading department in my state. Keep in touch guys. How can we get in touch with each other???
They had another conference the other day at the Gold Coast wonder what the crowd was like
Hey Anonomous2010 I’ll forward your email address to Carla later today. My internet is a bit flaky at the moment.
Can’t have been much of a success as there are practically no references to it anywhere. If SanFrancisco (supposedly 50 people in attendance) is anything to go by then the event would have been a total disaster.
Happy Australia Day everyone!
I wonder how all those people who wrote about how 2010 was going to be massive for Polaris and that things were only going to get bigger and better are doing.
I remember reading comments as late as early December last year about how the 2010 conferences were going ahead as normal full steam ahead.
Have you requested a refund? I am ex LLI too. Oz has started a great new thread about ACCC going after PMG. Maybe if we all band together they can enforce refunds.
Difficulty is, they’re a US based company and so were my Advisors – grrr!
Maybe that’s another reason why they came to Oz – knew they could bleed us dry with very little consequence.
I hope ACCC can/will help us.
I hope that everyone sees Today Tonight last night (Thursday) as follows & the story about Scientologists lodging dodgy AVO’s on people who expose their business practices as has happened to me as well as having all my computer accounts hacked & disgusting messages sent to over 8000 people and lodged on this site …
I can not comment any further as this matter is now in court but I am then also happy to be a part of any class action … So thanks again for all your support !!!
Would love to get in contact with you. I have requested refunds also.
Here is a post on the former Liberty League Life ning forum, Network Marketing Network. A PMG associate/distributor called Dan wants answers. Lynn Macfarlane Smith’s partner Bettina gives a scathing liberty League style answer and Tony “delete” Rush has gone all soft now and hasn’t deleted a thing, funny about that.
And Tony “undelete” Rush’s comment:
Looks like the Leader Board is back (monthly not weekly):
Thanks for the latest on that Rod. I just logged back on myself, and the forum seems to be running quite hot.
It’s quite entertaining from the “outside” now!
Boy, oh boy – how can people still keep going along with this rubbish, and want to still be involved with Polaris Media Group??
Back in the day when Tony was part of Polaris, these would’ve been deleted within hours, but now it’s almost like he’s enjoying watching Polaris crumble to the ground
Wow Mr. Rush has come a long way baby. Feels like only yesterday any time anyone tried to have an open discussion about Polaris on the Ning site that the censorship hammer came down pretty fast.
What a complete 180 degrees.
SINGAPORE BEWARE: this is a scam company!
AFTER DESTROYING AUSTRALIA POLARIS MEDIA GROUP ARE ON THE MOVE
Found this on facebook today … off to fleece another country so Oliver can
maintain her lifestyle with twin Yonkia in tow … I hear they are are in USA living
now … maybe avoiding the thousands of angry people they have fleeced here in Australia
and New Zealand …. they have gone to ‘SORT’ out the company rumor says … and to do there scientology studies no doubt!!
POLARIS TO VISIT SINGAPORE…
A FRESH HOME BASED BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY IN SINGAPORE!
Looking For ….
Time & Freedom?
Time To Live An Extraordinary Life?
Learn The Secrets Of Successful Entrepreneurs…..
Come and hear from CEO Shane Krider, in person
EMC Members & 2009 Top 10 Income Earners
Rachel Oliver & Yonika & Paul Mantel
Bring your guests
Thursday, March 11th, 2010
Singapore CBD (full details will be emailed to you once you have registered your attendance)
Light refreshments provided.
Please Register Your’s and your Guests Interest now by sending an email to Simon Haggard at info@WealthBeyondFreedom.com.au with subject line –REGISTER FOR SINGAPORE EVENT and submitting your Name / Email address / Contact Numbers & also include your Guests name/email in the body of the email.
Alternatively, please register your interest by visiting http://WealthBeyondFreedom.com.au
Scientology Simon Haggard – Beware of this one!!
You will be notified of event once registered.
Anybody reading this BEWARE!! Polaris is a scam and the only ones who make money have no conscience or lie to themselves. The products are overpriced and overhyped. Save your money and do not get involved! They are dead in the US, stole from AU and NZ and now they are apparently after other naive markets. Anybody who has been scammed should contact the Arizona Attorney general to get them shut down. The more complaints, the more notice that busy office will have and will need to take action.( azag.com Arizona Attorney General’s office)
They’re at it in Europe too, despite the pathetic turn out at the Prague event. http://www.pmgteameurope.com/audios.php -this link is for all their recordings login= team password= europe You will have heard it all before.
People telling how much money they are making and how easy it all is. One guy in Dublin swears that bandit signs are wonderful and that he even got somebody to buy something from him (poor sucker).
We all know it’s bullshit, but they are in the usual position of having blown their investments and so having to lie to try to recoup some of it.
Howard Hughes—how’s that for a name???— uses Rachel Oliver as a shining example of someone who makes $1 million a year with Polaris. If only he knew!!!!
The latest publicity stunt:
This leveraging the business on the back of charity organisations seems to be a trend. If they’re not doing it with their ‘movies’ then it seems to be fundraisers.
Uh what? Are they planning on trucking in rent-a-crowds?
Some of them may read this and think…”What a great idea!” Those who will stop at nothing to enrich themselves on the backs of others and then find a way to call it “integrity” are ever present.
WARNING – John Lavenia and wife and Delwyn McKenzie have surfaced with another con – somehting called GiveOpp. I dont know what it is about – but it will be the same crap – different package. I wasnt going to pay the $us60 for the mentoring package – before they give you any detail. Will keep posted
The Lavenias have put a new biz together yes – and so has Brent Payne!!!! When do they stop? Well they don’t cause they’re making a packet out of all the unsuspecting people and also out of all the ones who just don’t learn from the first or second rip off…..
yes they are text book leachs – praying on good meaning poeple who believe their deceipt under the false image of “helping”. It makes me sick!