Is the ACCC going after Polaris Media Group?
Over the past few weeks I’ve been in communications with various associates (ex and current), the QLD and NSW office of fair trading and have suspected that something has been building behind closed doors.
I can’t prove or confirm my suspicions at this stage but I thought I’d put together what I’ve observed and heard as together. Curiously they all seem to point to the same thing.
Have a read and perhaps you’ll experience a little ‘know for yourself’ too.
Yesterday the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) chairman Peter Kell announced a crackdown on online scam sites.
Working with over 40 international consumer groups the annual crackdown aims to “uncover and disrupt fraudulent websites”.
Whilst the article doesn’t specifically mention Polaris Media Group, I couldn’t help but notice the criteria Kell cited fit the company remarkably well.
They will inspect thousands of websites using terms such as ‘guaranteed income’, ‘get rich quick’ and ‘work from home’ before flagging any that appear suspicious for further investigation.
To illustrate I decided to use the cookie cutter Polaris Media Group site uxl.com.au, which co-incidentally is still being advertised on Foxtel.
This is a business that generates a substantial income. The difference here is this business because of its immediate high cash flow will pay for all of your expenses.
Your first year potential is massive given you do EXACTLY what I say and follow the system.
The system works perfectly as long as you follow it exactly.
A system that works perfectly with immediate high cash flow? Massive substantial income if I just do EXACTLY what you say?! Despite the income disclaimer tucked away at the bottom, it sure sounds like a guaranteed income to me.
So guaranteed income? Check.
Get rich quick:
ONLY the ones that want to realistically change their financial status immediately should call.
I need instant gratification versus building something that could be in 1-3 years.
Why would you want to get started in a business if you couldn’t make a ton of money right out of the gate?
Tons of money right out of the gate? Instant gratification? Changing your financial situation immediately?
Get rich quick? Check.
Work from home
Work from home in your boxer-shorts.
Your success will be achieved with personal mentoring by myself and other entrepreneurs who have already achieved financial success while working from home.
Are you willing to take advice from those who have come before you who generate executive level pay every month from home?
Work from home? You betcha, check.
As you can see the criteria laid out by Kell fits your standard Polaris Media Group website like a glove. And UXL is just one site, there’s literally hundreds if not thousands of them out there.
The first sentence of Rachel Oliver’s testimonial “After losing my job to corporate downsizing” returns 61 google search results. Some of the US players’ testimonials are literally on thousands of websites.
Additionally Mr Kell urged caution when it came to websites that asked you to
provide personal details: Ever seen a Polaris Media website that doesn’t have a form asking you to leave your personal details? Yeah me neither.
send money overseas: …well the founders of Polaris live in the US, that’s overseas right? (I know this is mostly referring to ‘deposit’ type scams and doesn’t really apply to Polaris)
or that required immediate action.
Again from UXL:
If you’re ready to embark on an adventure that will change your life then contact us immediately.
Are your pants on fire yet?
The ACCC announcing a crackdown isn’t the only thing that piqued my interest however. The week after I went public with the NSW office of fair trading’s written confirmation that Liberty League was a scam, was mostly spent two’ing and fro’ing over the phone.
My request was simple (or so I thought) “does the Liberty League classification automatically carry over to Polaris Media Group?” My request was continually passed up the ladder after the representative that originally was handling my enquiry abruptly advised me one day she’d been told she ‘could not comment any further’.
I went to her manager, to her manager’s manager and finally was advised that I my query would be handled by an “investigator”. To date I have not received a phone call.
One gentlemen I spoke to during the telephonic ping pong match did advise me that if Polaris Media Group was essentially the same thing that yes, the classification still stands.
A week or so ago now I attempted to dissect the Polaris Media Group compensation plan and found that the business still isn’t profitable unless you have a constant stream of new associates underneath you. What’s more the much touted game changing residual income plan actively encourages this.
Shortly after exchanging this information however I was met with the same ‘I can’t comment any further, I’ll have to pass your case to someone else’ routine.
Ralph Nader QC (not a QC, but an actual lawyer) from Whirlpool shared his explanation of this sudden restriction of information:
I think you’ll find that is normal practice when there is an investigation afoot. Telling you, a stranger, could compromise their investigation. After all, you could be a 6FC/LLI stooge or passing info on (which you are in fact doing by going public as you receive information).
Of course, if they aren’t interested in investigating, they might take a similar “head-in-the-sand” approach. But given the media release and alleged legal advice, I doubt it.
In addition to this the case I opened with the Brisbane office of fair trading the day after receiving written confirmation from the NSW office was immediately handed over to the ACCC.
I acknowledge receipt of your complaint regarding Liberty League International.
In reply, I would advise that as your matter appears to fall within the ambit of legislation administered by the Australian Consumer & Competition Commission, I have forwarded your letter to that authority for consideration with a request that a reply be forwarded to you direct.
To date I have not been contacted, again suggesting that perhaps internal investigations are still pending.
Whilst I myself have received the cold shoulder following the public statement on Liberty League from the NSW office, in contrast Polaris Media Group associates have informed me that after lodging their own enquiries, the NSW office had actively sought them out and asked some interesting questions.
Dear Mr XXXXXXXXXX
I refer to your correspondence dated 1 September 2009 regarding Liberty League International.
The Office of Fair Trading can provide assistance to you regarding your complaint. You will need to provide the details of who has signed you to this scheme and to whom the payments were made.
You also have the option of seeking a refund through the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal. The Tribunal provides an inexpensive and effective means of settling consumer disputes and is capable of making enforceable orders. Please see the Tribunal website for more details.
Applications can be lodged at any Fair Trading Centre, Tribunal Registry or online at www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/cttt.html. Alternatively, you may choose to obtain your own independent legal advice.
I trust that this information is of assistance to you.
In addition to this the associate received a followup email and three phone calls requesting the details of the person who had signed them up to Polaris Media Group. Co-incidentally persistent?
According to another Polaris Media Group associate, CEO Shane Krider responded with ‘hopefully at least one person will get our compensation plan after this’ during an EMC tour around Australia:
Shane Krider the CEO chewed gum the entire time he talked at the conference and warned people not to listen or buy into the negativity that is being generated from the internet or NSW. He assured us to stay positive and that they are definitely not a Pyramid scheme until the courts rule.
The courts, who said anything about the courts!? Is it possible Krider has been given advanced warning something is up?
Interestingly another associate mentioned ‘that blog’ also featured in the recent EMC Australian tour meetings;
They didn’t mention the name, just said “have you seen that blog, you know the one…” followed by “we are going to stop them in the most spectacular way” insert roars of laughter.
Is OzSoapbox about to be spectacularly stopped some time soon? Reader Lawfirm2 doesn’t seem to think so:
I can tell you from first hand experience as the attorney for several LLI defectors that LLI’s scare tactics so far have been nothing more that the proverbial paper tiger.
While anyone can write saber rattling letters, it is an totally different matter to follow up on them–frankly I don’t think LLI even has the resources too anyways.
These could all of course just be hugely co-incidental but the overbearing cynic in me thinks otherwise. A regulatory department all of a sudden goes quiet, another regulatory department is seemingly gathering as much information about Polaris Media Group as possible and the CEO is talking about letting the courts decide if his company is a pyramid scheme.
Maybe I’m not being cynical and it’s really all quite simple.
What are your thoughts?
haha me thinks that shane krider is about to pack up and head for the hills. What a tool, chewing gum while talking at a conference, wow so professional! It makes me feel so much better that this company is being run by such a moron. Haha and i gotta say i love how u caught them out with the no drawing circles to explain…lol. They would need about 100 more circles and about 5 hours to explain their overly complicated and frankly idiotic compensation plan. I am an ex liberty leaguer and polaris media debter, ive lost overall around 1k on this piece of crud and I thank god that I got out when I did. Oz, I thankyou for exposing these people for what they really are and I hope, like you have helped me, you are helping many more people. Thanks again.
Also, and im not to sure, but why are there advertisments of Home businesses on your site? Im fairly sure some of the are polaris media scum? If ur fighting a cause against them you probably should try to remove these ad’s if you can lol 🙂 Thanks.
I would encourage all Liberty League and Polaris Media associates to report their experiences to the ACCC. In order for the ACCC to take action, they will need as many examples of real experiences as possible to be convinced that this scheme is a scourge on society and is not merely a small operation that is affecting only a few.
ps. Ralph Nader isn’t my real name and I’m not a QC, but I am a real lawyer with a background in Competition and Consumer Law. The name is the one that I use on whirlpool and I am reasonably well known over there. further, Oz knows my real identity and if necessary can (I hope) vouch for my bona fides.
OMG are they that DELUSIONAL – They didn’t mention the name, just said “have you seen that blog, you know the one…” followed by “we are going to stop them in the most spectacular way”
“we’re so awesome, we’re so cool, insert roars of laughter.” do they think they’re invincible, do they not realise the trouble they could be in” I’d love to see ALL the Active members bought down… What a sweet sweet day that would be for all of us…
“we don’t draw circles on a whiteboard” hmmm especially when they represent a PYRAMID (scheme)
They are Google Ads, and are targeted to the content of the page you are reading.
For instance, if you are reading Oz’s post about goldfish then you are bound to get goldfish ads; cycling and you are bound to get cycling ads.
Good article, thanks for keeping on PMG’s case and keeping us citizens updated.
I’m happy to vouch for Ralph. I was actually going to mention the quoted response from the article was from a lawyer (and obviously state that it wasn’t official legal advice), but wasn’t sure how incognito you wanted to be!
I don’t think LLI will eradicated on the basis of being Pyramid because they can easily reinvent to avoid it. The issue for me has always been the insincerity and poor ethics – you can’t legislate against that when it’s borderline, – the public just needs to not get into get-rich-quick schemes, i.e. they have themselves to blame if they let their greed win out – sorry, that’s life, it’s an imperfect world – Soapbox should just keep getting the message out to warn people.
As I said, in regards to these marginal businesses, you can’t eradicate them by legislation – it’s ultimately up to each person’s good judgement (and public word-of-mouth forums like Soapbox).
well done oz
The fact of the matter is, even if one wanted to “sell” this business, you might get the prospect on the initial concept but it’s human nature to be cynical and fairly high on the due diligence would be a simple internet search of the company. Bingo…you would lose them in a moment. Or worse…they invest and then do the search and all of a sudden you, not the wealthy emc are in the firing line for a refund. That does not sound like a nice lifestyle to me.
unless you target a “fresh” market
Thanks for that info. I’ve also discovered that if you go to UWS main page – http://unifiedwealthsolutions.com/ – and click on ‘Sign Up’, about half way down under ‘Advisor Information’ it says to go to the Liberty League Online Business Center to find out who your advisor is. So it’s obviously linked in some way.
Here’s one of their typical pages that they set up once you join – http://dream2reality.unifiedwealthsolutions.com/
Yes, i know… it SCREAMS scam… but anyway..
Note the disclaimer down the bottom:
“Disclaimer – No incomes are represented or guaranteed in any amount for any participant. Some Associates will earn no money at all in this Program. No person earns any income solely for enrolling others in the program. Any experience shared may be unique to the individuals sharing them and should not be taken as assurances of success for others. Results of participation may vary widely. ”
Interesting that they’ve written “no person earns any income soley for enrolling others in the program”.
I wonder if this is how they will try to get out of being classed as a pyramid scheme?
If the government thought LLI/Polaris was Pyramid or some other illegal business, they would have banned them after all our complaints – but they haven’t. I never saw LLI as Pyramid because associates recieve remuneration based on sales made to non-associates and further remuneration when the non-associates becomes an associate and purchases conference tickets – the balance of the commission goes entirely to the owners of LLI/Polaris.
The big problem with LLI/Polaris is that it is immoral (to me and anyone I have discussed this with) to enlist new associates without explaining that:
(a) you have to spend $2,000 per month on marketing (because existing LLI associates get most search engine traffic)
(b) new associates have about 1% chance of making $150k+
(c ) the big money only comes from associates selling conference tickets to associates (after the initial sale to the non-associate)at hugely inflated prices
All other issues (such as business tie-ups between associates and UnifiedWealth) are are not illegal and occur in most industries.
My question is ‘Why has no mainstream media eg A Current Affair, exposed LLI/Polaris for what it is i.e. legal but shonky’?
Advertising dollars I believe. Sixfigure chicks (or highlymotivatednow) were (are still?) advertising on channel 9 who run ACA.
UXL and some other Polaris associates advertise on Foxtel of which News Corp own a 25% stake. NewsCorp own foxtel who supply a lot of shows to channel 10.
Channel 7 have a 50% stake in Yahoo7 along with Yahoo. Yahoo run their own online advertising site Yahoo Publisher Network which no doubt features Polaris associate ads. This relationship is probably stretching it however.
I think ultimately it’s a numbers thing for them, most people will go ‘Polaris who?’ (remember people don’t find out it’s Polaris until after they’ve responded to an ad be it a television commercial or bandit sign etc.), if they ran a story on them whereas they don’t need to be company specific when doing a story on dodgy builders or con artists.
As people burn out most of them probably don’t want anyone knowing their past involvement in the company as I imagine it’s kind of embarassing to publicly own up to. Having said that given the increasing feedback from people who are involved in the company, have quit or are teetering on that grey area between the two I think over the next twelve months we’ll see a steady increase.
It’s not going to be thousands but at least their experiences along with the information I’ve provided can hopefully serve as a balance to others doing their own research.
Either way as far as regulation goes I’m leaving that one up to the relevant authorities. My purpose was to get the information out there which I think has been achieved.
It’s pretty hard to miss both sides of the fence when doing your own research into Polaris, which is a change from the usual practice of burying anything negative with the flimsy online marketing tactics Polaris employ.
julia – UWS is a lead management system independent of up set up by some of the LLI ppl – if you are going to comment on here – how about at least doing some basic research so you dont go off half cocked. There are a lot of ppl been scwreed financially by these prick – waste of space poses here just discredit the real issue
it seems a lot of the poeple making comments here are really just “going off” with no real understanding of the way it is with this company. unimformed comments really just deminish the real objective of this forum and make me think – are these genuine issues. Personally I have been in this company for over a yr – and have been burn in many way – false “selling” promises, lies, extreme lack of leadership, back stabbing and basically abuse by the “leaders”. I have made money but this fairy tale lifestyle has cost me so much more. It is definately cultish and I do believe has now a directy sceintology association and for very many Kriders latest premediated change in the comp plan was worked to fruther advantage the TOP. Technically a pyramid system – I dont think that one with stick – Immoral ? – some of the poeple involved appaer to be genuine – but must admit after a year – the number is greatly deminished in my eyes.
My “leader” and “mentor” has all but snubbed me – just when I guess now more money was ot be made from me. So any one who is reading this and still considering the “opportunity” – take you rose coloured glaases offf and maje sure the one that is “selling” you is a real honest and genuine person – d let me know if you find one.
To assess the business ethics of LLI/Polaris and its key associates, you need to take a big picture view of it (e.g. what’s its real purpose and mission), mixed with a fair bit of experience in the business world. In a nutshell, the LLI/Polaris owners and leader associates have a money-making system which attracts and deceives the greedy and/or ignorant looking to get rich quickly (personally I fell into the ‘greedy’ group).
I ask all the unhappy ex-LLI associates who read this: Which group do you fall into ‘greedy’ or ‘ignorant’.
That said, I found it a great learning experience – I learnt (a) a few marketing skills, (b) not to be greedy, and (c ) to not get sucked into get-rich-quick schemes.
To ‘Also the Truth’ – I had difficulty understanding you mesage (above), although you seem to be advising people to only consider LLI/Polaris if the seller associate is honest and genuine – if that’s your message, I disagree; I advise all people to avoid LLI/Polaris.
Can anyone give any advice on if anything would happen if we started naming our advisers on here? Don’t want to get this forum removed in any way. I would like to see who had the same adviser as me and there experience with them.
Sorry ‘also the truth’, but your not making sense mate. I’m not defencding Liberty League or Polaris, i’m simply trying to find out more information about them and if there is a link between the two companies.
Hey Fred welcome to the discussion.
I don’t believe there’s a problem naming advisors but as for personal information, unless it’s publicly available I don’t think it’s a good idea to publish it.
This includes internal email addresses that belong to Polaris employees.
I would suggest that it would be best not to identify individuals. Rather use initials or first name only (so long as it’s not so unique that it can only refer to one person).
to identify people clearly is to risk accusations of defamation. In a defamation case, the onus is on the person making the claim (including the blog that publishes it) to show that the statement is true, fair comment or honest opinion. Underpinning all that is that the facts must be right.
Two things stand out to me:
1. There are numerous allegations that LLI/PMG are pyramid schemes and thus illegal.
2. Naming someone as being associated with LLI/PMG and in fact promoting the scheme is to allege that they have engaged in illegal activity.
To this point, no-one has actually proved that LLI/PMG actually breach the pyramid selling scheme provisions of the various fair trading acts and the Trade Practices Act. If a named person so wished, they could force the “accusers” to prove their case. this will be a costly exercise and at this point in time, not exactly a given that the proof exists.
So, I urge caution, if not for the poster’s sake, but for Oz’s.
to see how crazy this compensation plan is and how it is so geared towards the EMC have a look at http://www.pmgcompensation.com
username – compensation password – showme
OK … “Truth” … here’s a video just for you … you may be surprised to learn that in EVERY industry … the people at the top make the most money. It’s not just P M G, M L M, or ne t work mar ket ing.
The argument that ‘in every business the people at the top make the most money so Poalris is ok’ has already been debunked numerous times on here.
Do the people in every company make their money with the requirement of those beneath them constantly recruiting new employees?
What real company advertises and sells there own company on the premise that the people they sell to will sell the company as well?
All legit company’s have a product range to sell, where they can get repeat customers and move a product or service. No Legit company advertises for you to come and let them show you how to make a company exactly the same as there’s so you can be in competition with them and sell the same company to other people who then have to sell the company to other people who then have to sell the company to other people etc etc all in competition with each other.
And don’t even bother trying to go down the line of “oh but Polaris Media Group / Liberty League / Scam Central sell personal development products”.
We all know that 99.9% if not all of them are reselling the business as this is the only way to make money with the scam and in all illegal pyramid schemes.
Want proof? Check this out – Copy and paste the following frase into Google:
– Previously I was working for an oil company and after suddenly losing my job through to corporate downsizing, I started my own business. I ran my previous business for a little over 4 years and pretty much lost all my money. When I found this incredible –
You will now have a list of thousands upon thousands of Liberty League / Polaris Media Group websites. I would suggest to you that NONE of them are there to sell the bizarre brand of personal development products (that was written and narrated by guy that has now left the company) that Liberty League / Polaris Media Group sell, they are all there to on sell the same business that has been sold to them.
Now lets not forget, as stated by Liberty League, 85% of them will make no money and I would think (know) that after paying for the exorbitantly priced “Personal Development” (cough “Scientology” cough)products, they would actually loose money.
I just Googled the following as suggested by Fred. Previously I was working for an oil company and after suddenly losing my job through to corporate downsizing, I started my own business. I ran my previous business for a little over 4 years and pretty much lost all my money. WOW— at least 39,000 that’s 39thousand pages with those words. I never knew Rachel Oliver was so popular or famous. If this does not convince those who think Polaris is legit that it is in fact a pyramid scheme then I know they are living in LaLa Land.
i just googled it to , hmm there’s alot out there, i still know some people who swear by it and are off to Porta Rica, oh well , what can you do
The people who “swear” by it are the people who are delusional, the people who spent tens of thousands of dollars to pay for some major rip off conference overseas. If i spent that much, I would want it to be real and I would swear by it too. Douglas buddy not having a dig at you, but the writings on the wall. Listen to people on this site, they know what they are talking about
Great news my persistence has paid off and I have my money back for my Beyond Freedom purchase. Note I did send it back outside of the 10 days. Also note it is 10 days after receiving delivery not the purchase date as quoted by Lilia Harms at PMG .”You have 10 calendar days starting from the date of delivery to return your Beyond Freedom”.
I am thankful that I didn’t invest in anything else apart from my sign-up. I am one of the lucky ones. I feel for the people who purchased the conferences, promotional material etc. I still urge as many of you as possible to at least contact the ACCC as I have done.
Hopefully this will give hope to some of you who realise in time this business is a scam and is unethical.
Contact Lilia. She had no hesitation in directing my advisor to refund my purchase.
(Sorry Greg but I had to remove the email address, it’s not publicly available from what I can see -Oz)
no worries Oz but I did get it off your site originally.
Whoops, it’s been a busy week on BehindMLM and I’ve probably let some things through I shouldn’t have.
This is a difficult one for me, on one hand I’m glad this Polaris representative is willing to help people but on the other hand I have to respect her privacy unless she makes her information public.
That’s ok oz. I am sure we all appreciate the effort you put in to your site. Thanks mate.
what a load of nonsense. This is the most exciting industry that we have ever been in.
Its also very funny to see comments from people that haven’t even been in the business for 2 weeks… come on!
This business is for people that are taking Action for their life, results and future, and not releying on other’s for hand outs
I am glad to be apart of Polaris, and its show’s that alot of people here could REALLY benifit from the 1st class products that we market.
Its also funny to see what other products are marketed here on this page!
This is mainly directed to Ralph QC — Can you please tell me are we within our rights to ask to see a copy of Polaris Media Group Legal Opinion about their dealings with OFT.
They are refusing.
You can ask, but they have no obligation to show. If you want to see that sort of stuff, you need to become a director of the company. (and not a director in name only, but a director of the corporation, if you get my meaning?)
I’m not surprised.
I find it telling that a lot of the Polaris/LLL supporters cannot spell to save their lives…
Yet another ‘NANANANANA THIS IS CRAP NOT LISTENING NANANANA!’ response.
How is it nonsense?
I agree with Julia about the people in Polaris / LLI / Big Ass Britches … essentially they have NO finesse or class. And they definitely can’t spell, let alone manage an event. They’re just a bunch of uneducated yobbos with delusions of grandeur and even bigger egos.
Who else feels strongly that we should claim back our AU$475 for a day’s “motivation and training” at the Gold Coast? It was a product launch, dammit! And you don’t usually pay for product launches because “they” pay you for being there in the hope that you’ll rush out and sell their products. Yet it was marketed as a day of motivation and training that would change your life and your business forever – like all the other stunning SuperCharged Saturdays to date. What a joke! At least the EMC (John and Shannon Lavenia, Tony Rush, Gene Braxton, Rachel Oliver, Delwyn MacKenzie, et al) laughed all the way to the bank: they got AU$700,000 for a day of strutting around on stage while all that Associates got was seriously confused. Most still are!
In fact, I’ve never, ever, ever been to such a shoddy product launch. Having worked for multi-national companies in Europe and thus familiar with professional presentations, this was quite laughable*: not a goodie-bag, not a pen with the new logo, not even a pad of paper other than that provided by the hotel.
When I mentioned my disappointment to another Associate, she said, wide-eyed, “But we got nice plastic name tags on a string!” I rest my case about the kind of people this company attracts.
* I’d be laughing if I hadn’t wasted AU$475 on this pathetic excuse called SuperCharged Saturday.
NOTE TO ANDREW (see his comments above) – if you really want to Know For Yourself, do some research. The material for the “1st class products” is plagiarised, there is NO link with Bob Proctor, at least one of the Summit Advisors makes porn movies and markets them on You Tube, Scientology is the cult of choice, integrity means nothing despite the title of John Lavenia’s book, and most of the Summit Advisors are lying about their incomes, how many hours’ work is required, and the extent of their expenses. Oh, and you need spelling lessons.
Polaris works! Ive already spent $10,000 and ive made $20! If i keep on giving them money I will be so rich, just you guys wait!
wait holdup WHAT! Youtube does porn now?!?
you guys and gals are hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment.
so who’s the porn star ?????
Would probably be tarred and feathered if I “dropped the balls” … I’m after PMG for a refund, so am not looking to tug on Superman’s cape! A bit like spitting into the wind, right? 🙂
PS Here’s a clue: it’s somebody who is NOT making a six figure income via PMG’s personal development program!
Come on Liz, that could be anybody 😉
I just got back from Puerto Rico. I happened to be staying at the very same hotel as all of the participants whom were attending the sovereignty conference there.
They had 1000+ attendees. Poor schmucks travelled from as far as Australia and New Zealand. From my observation, a lot of the people would have rather been enjoying their time in Puerto Rico doing other things.
Instead, then they had to listen to a bunch of boobs on stage for 3 days to get them pumped up to sell this crap.
They were playing the Polaris Media Group infomercial dvd on the hotel channel 24/7 for the 2 weeks we were there (and probably still are)
Anyway, it seemed very fishy to me. Everyone was so freaking happy and openly talking about how successful they were. It was almost surreal.
Lets just say after having drinks with many of them (and having already saw all the scam sites on my laptop), I then had some VERY interesting and candid conversations with many of the associates.
Whether it be widgets, ‘motivitational literature’, or conference tickets , the bottom layer of a pyramid ALWAYS gets hurt.
Polaris is not a new company. It’s a rebranding of an established company (which was recently legally realized to be a PYRAMID SCAM/SCHEME).
You know what they say, “a sucker is born every minute”.
We asked one lady, “What is this conference?”. She answered and then quickly added, “I work and manage an extremely lucrative home based business”. When this lady then said she would be our mentor, I almost laughed out loud. Her using the word lucrative was an immediate red flag to me for some reason.
I asked one young guy why he was wearing jeans on such a beatiful day. He said it was freezing in the auditorium and they only had a 1 hour break. He of course was now sweating heavily in the sun. I asked if he will be able to enjoy the day or be able to see some sites while in Puerto Rico. He said “No, I can’t afford to stay any extra days!”
One guy from New Zealand was piss drunk, approached me and gave me 2 different earnings numbers within a few minutes. First he told me he makes 30K a month. A minute later he told me that he made 100K a year, that he was about to settle a 4 thousand dollar bar tab and that he flew all over the world going to these events.
He was bigger than me and kind of a redneck, so I didn’t say anything. You can bet that I was doubting how he can afford to jetset around the world going to these conferences, blowing 4 thousand at the hotel bar, even though he only made 100K.
Oh we got a number of business cards and I had a number of other laughable conversations. Now that the conference is over, a couple has reached out to us already. I’m tempted to take them up on the offer for a discovery call.
Really, I would like to just ask if these people know that Liberty League (now PMG) was found to be an illegal and unethical company/scam.
If so, I’d like to then ask them if they:
A – Know they are NOT HELPING and NOT GIVING ANYONE MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITIES, BUT instead are most often taking advantage of vulnerable people and are simply implicating these people into the pyramid scam.
B – Know they are vulnerable people themselves whom have clearly been takin for a ride
Quite interesting that you were there Rob and got to see it firsthand without all the pressure.
Care to go into any more detail over the conversations you had? I imagine it’s not all smiles and sunshine once people have had a few drinks and tounges start wagging.
Because you can tell it’s not their real persona. They’re brainwashed into thinking this is how you must talk and act to be rich…that this is how “rich people” talk. Tony “Delete” Rush discusses all this on his forum, and they all fall for it.
Thanks for sharing that Rob. It’s always ineresting to see the ‘real’ faces behind associates, so to speak.
You’ll have to forgive us if we (or I) don’t immediately believe you are Rachel’s mother, but damn I’m hoping you really are.
And if you really are, I’m sure there are hundreds of people out there who visit this website who are more than willing to assist you in exposing the life (lies) of Rachel Oliver.
Sounds like she has destroyed a lot of lives, and I’m sure they would love to return the favour.
Not sure that this is the place to be debating your own personal family issues but of course that is for Oz to decide.
I do appreciate and welcome your thoughts though (as I’m sure most of the forum participants would).
It must be devistating to have someone you love making up stories about their Mum just to gain some sympathy from potential victims.
Again, thanks for your thoughts.
To Whom It May Concern.
Rachel Anne Oliver, born 28/12/1974 entered our world from my womb in Wollongong Hospital: she is a proverbial liar. I’m NOT & have NEVER BEEN an alocholic.
View her website. I’ve sought legal advice: matters pending.
Rachel Anne Oliver, chosen as an Oz success example by the USA Company Liberty League, provided fraudulent claims on her website in relation to her birth place. She was NOT born or raised in Sydney!
She did leave home aged 16 years for about 3 weeks. Rachel lived with all insundary folks of her choice. She constantly returned home and left when she chose.
I’ve much more to information to expose my second daughter, Rachel Anne Oliver, as the proverbial liar that she’s become
Most Honestly & Sincerely sent with great disappointment,
Rachel Anne Olivers’ Mother – Tori Vance
Sounds like we are making some progress. My goal would be for ACCC to get all of us at least partial refunds. I like the sound of this and am going to apply.
Not sure whether Tori was being a bit ‘tongue in cheek’ so to speak, but if you have a look on Google, Tori Vance was crowned Miss Teen Arizona:
Bit of a funny coincedence?! Seems like someone posted the above just for a bit of fun. Would be bizarre for Rachel Oliver’s mother to come out all of a sudden out of nowhere.
Rachel’s story about her mother hitting her was quite convincing. It’s very sad if she did lie about stuff like that as there are a lot of people who really have been through those things and it’s not fair for people like her to tell stories like that just for some publicity.
Ralph and Oz – can you give any advice/help as to the best way to explain things to the Consumer, Trade and Tenancy Tribunal in order to seek a refund?
If ACCC are investigating LLI/PMG, do you think they would demand refunds for us?
I’d start from the beginning and just give them the facts. Leave emotion out of it (ie. I’m so angry I etc.) and just try to convey exactly how your dealings with the company went.
That alone should be enough.
Have you been in touch with Fair Trading or ACCC lately? I am wondering if they would consider creating a file/investigation where we could all provide our details and experiences and we could fight together to take LLI/PMG down and at least get some form of compensation.
Would be great if you could update us with regards to this thread when you get the chance.
If A Current Affair were interested to do a story on all of our experiences, who would be keen? I think if we got some media coverage, this would spur the ACCC/Govt to do something!!!
Sorry for multiple posts, have been doing a little research.
Have you seen this? Not sure of the outcome, but would be great if we could get AG over there to hel!
PHOENIX (CN) – Liberty League International took more than $5 million in a pyramid scheme that promised its “members” could make up to $181,000 a year working at home for less than 4 hours a day, according to a class action in Federal Court. Liberty said it would cost just $49.95 to join the sales program, then pressured its “members” to spend another $22,400 for “conferences” and a “personal development course,” the class claims.
Liberty advertised on its Web site that the only purchase needed was a $49.95 start-up kit – then the company pushed its $1,495 personal development course, $7,995 three-day conference and $12,995 five-day conference, according to the complaint. The only way around purchasing the products – for $22,485 – was to sell other people five of each, the class claims.
Liberty promised that its members could make “multiple $1,000 profits daily,” working for one to four hours a day, the class claims. And it claimed that many members made as much as $181,000 a year.
The class claims Liberty fails to tell them that to make a profit they had to recruit others into the program and get them to buy its products.
The class demands an injunction and damages.
Also named as defendants are Beyond Freedom Publishing, Brent Payne, Shane Krider, Liberty League Holdings, and Big Ass Britches Holdings.
The class is represented by Andrew S. Friedman and Patricia N. Syverson with Bonnett, Fairbourn & Friedman and David Brower with Brower Piven of New York.
You’re going to waste energy trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. go after brent? brent was run out over a year ago by shane and his scientologist pals when he refused to join the church.
Payne’s sister and brother in law were the first to abandon ship while it was still liberty. Seems they knew something the rest of us refused to believe and were not willing to be part of the scientology parade.
Since then, shane’s scientologist pals john lavenia, shannon lavenia, gene braxton and tony rush abandonded shane. Last i heard the lavenia moved from los angeles to tucson. Rush & braxton are still status quo living off the uws crap. I cannot imagine they have much of a client base left.
Now shane is broke. You have a better chance of having a meteor hitting you on your head than getting a penny out of krider.
All the big hitters have moved on and shane is a total joke. Seems that his old employee Joe Neid has the latest personal development scheme going with lifepath. He is in business with patrick combs who spoke at the old liberty events. It appears to me it is the same liberty league garbage born again with a new lifepath label.
Lavenia, rush and braxton are now selling internet training and affiliate crap all over the internet. bad bad people. Wendy stevens the criminal is at lifepath. Big mouth robin firestone and rhonda swann are at lifepath. Elena and tony are at trump and all over facebook being tacky as ever.
Shane has nobody left other rachel oliver and than the recent “scientologist leaders” simon haggard, kevin and melisa knect, don and carla silver, bob and lisa molina, andy and amy grant, mike and arni berry.
Maybe for the next training day they can have all of them waiting on the aliens to enlighten them, just like shane enlightened there wallets
Not recently, they never got back to me despite having open cases with a few of the government departments. I’m unlikely to follow up the cases now as I’m based in Taiwan.
Don’t know if it’s still ongoing or what the outcome was, but you can bet this was the reason for the heavy handed compliance guideline changes that occured. In particular ‘thou shalt not promise incomes and you must have an income disclaimer’.
I have been in contact with one of the law firms who is representing clients in the current US class action and they won’t help Aussies – only US based people.
Wow, and now they have changed name YET again, I wonder what the ACCC stance is? No wonder Rachel Oliver took off to the US!
So Sorry, Belated Replies,
Vince (Nov 30, 2009): Rachel’s antics destroyed many lives.
Martin (Nov 30, 2009): Believe me Rachel devastated not only her own family but many other folks with her convincing acts, instantly produced tears, lies flow from her tongue easily.
Carla (Jan 31, 2010): To be crowned “Miss Teen Arizona” is impossible given I’m 61 years old & live on the south coast of NSW Australia. Tori is short for Victoria: Vance is my maiden name – I didn’t want to be an Oliver when my marriage ended. My comments were definitely not “tongue in cheek.”
Believe it or not Carla, I am sorry to say I gave birth to Rachel Anne Oliver in Wollongong Hospital Dec 28, 1974. She has been an extremely good liar since age 7: Counseling exhilarated her ability to blatantly lie, tears streaming down her cheeks – she’s been able to bluff experts for years.
If you view her LLI videos: note the classy black dress, her hair dressed up immaculately for her year 11 formal. I made that dress & turned her straight blond hair into a movie star creation. Rather grand accomplishments for an alcoholic as fraudulently by Rachel, you’d have to agree!
Rachel & her siblings received boundless support & unconditional love from me. Their father was seldom home: he was married to work – not family.
I’ve never hit Rachel, Carla! Her lies do make for great publicity angles, public sympathy appeal, & let’s not negate her catch-cry, ‘Anyone can make it to the big time’ – or something to that effect. She is a lying drama queen that used every con antic for self-benefit.
Until tonight I wasn’t aware of followup comments.I’ve ticked the box so feel free to ask questions please.
Oz, sorry I didn’t respond to your “unblock technology” question. Having been blocked from responding to many of Rachels’ websites, I Googled this problem.
To unblock a website is simple if one pays for the service and follows the instructions.
Hope I’ve clarified my authenticity.
Sorry, I am Rachel Olivers’ mother.
Tori (Victoria Vance)
I am proud of you Tor, because your standing up for the people and offering them information on the now owner of Polaris (aka) Liberty Leauge.
As your friend and neighbour, I thank you also as I do not wish all MLM Company’s to get a bad reputation or stigma because of this pyramid scheme. There are some out there believe it or not that are legitimate, and do play fair.
Don’t give up on all of your dreams people keep looking and you will find what your looking for. I have and it is nothing like this Polaris nonesence. A Real business, real people, real products and most importantly – realistic affordability!
So once again Tori, Thank you. See you for a cuppa in the morning! xx
Hello Vince, Sorry to reply so belatedly. I truly am, I’m ashamed to say, mother of Rachel Anne Oliver. Her constant, believable lies have destroyed too many lives.
Hello Martin, I didn’t know about ticking the box below that enabled a reply. Sorry my reply is so late.
Indeed it was devastating to hear my daughter fabricate and recreate her privileged life into one of hardship, to gain sympathy from vulnerable folks.
Rachel is a pathological liar. Specialist Counselors were unable to discover why Rachel self-induced illicit drugs at her boy friends’ home the day after she & I returned from 2 weeks holiday in Bali!
Most sincerely Martin, I hope my honesty saves further victims from my daughters’ atrocious deceits. Spending any money Rachel Anne Oliver / Shane Krider cons & scams is throwing money away.
Hi Carla, Believe it or not: I am embarrassed to admit that I gave birth to Rachel Anne Oliver.
It’s impossible for me to be crowned ‘Miss Teen Arizona’ because I’m 61 and live on the south coast of NSW Australia.
Tori is short for Victoria Carla. I converted to my maiden name (Vance) for personal reasons.
Rachel has always been a convincing liar: she can turn on the water-works (produce tears) before you can blink.
As for me allegedly hitting her – it didn’t happen! As for my alleged alcoholism – this made Rachels’ make-believe, recreation & fabrication of a disadvantaged upbringing so believable – didn’t it? The poor kid made it from skid row to the big time – by cons & scams!
Nothing offered to Rachel was ever enough to satisfy her desire for fame & notoriety.
More bizarre coincidences have occurred before Carla.
Where, all of a sudden did I come out from? Surfing the net isn’t my forte. I just happened upon my daughters name!
I’ve proven my authenticity beyond reproach & am terribly ashamed to admit Rachel Anne Oliver is my daughter.
Uh, I think someone might have led you down the garden path regarding this. There’s no such thing as ‘unblock technology’.
I think you might have had your IP address blocked but to get around that would be as simple as going to a local net cafe (although that wouldn’t do much if the site in question had comment moderation turned on).
Are we talking MLM here or some other business venture?
I started addressing the IP address block but lost all type. Perhaps you’ve received it – perhaps it’s lost in cyberspace – just joking!
Too old to visit net cafes. The genera of my previous emails to Rachel (before being blocked) were related to her grandmother – too personal to expose!
THANKS FOR YOUR INFO.
Hi Oz, Yes my business is a MLM company. There are hundreds of them out there on the Net! It’s a matter of finding a MLM that pays commissions for the amount of help that you give others. Not on the amount of help you give yourself!
Commission should be paid in small percentages until such times as you have helped those below you make money!
My business for eg. pays a small % commission for your first level, then increases the % on the 2nd,(as you help your first level grow) then back up a little after that and so on!
So to sum up when your downline starts to create their downline then you start to earn more money! This all happens with support and a team effort! Your website comes with joining, and the only thing you have to buy other than the products which are for your Health,(around $200p/m) – is a small advertising payment p/m.
I have found that most people searching the Net for other ways of making money are mostly doing that because they have children, or are struggling finacially, who are sick of the 9 – 5 and helping their boss’ get richer and richer off their hard work! Most do not have much money hence why they are looking.
MLM is for people that wish to work from home! It is not a fee ride. You do have to work, just as in any other job or business! The only difference is that you work from home. A little bit more affordable don’t you think! Oh, and you can in a few years from now still become a Millionair!
I looked into Polaris way back (LLI), and was told that I would find the money, Get This – If my dream was Big enough! Hello! My dream is very BIG, but that did not make $2000 start up fall out of the sky. And there was NO money that would come back to me until (Drum role)…..I invested more just to earn a third of my initial investment. Then convice some other poor shmuck out of his or her $2000. OMG! How rediculos.
The drepression you will suffer going into debt over your head will control your life.
MLM is a way to be your own boss and for the average person to become finacially free. NOT to make the people at the top richer and richer, while you sit at the bottom of your bank accounts and see that you cant find any one else to be as stupid as you were!
In my opinion, MLM should not be there to make the people with the GIFT of the GAB be the ones who benefit! Not every person can convice people to take out huge loans and nor would i want to. I need to be able to sleep at night, without my conscience giving me the third degree. Imagine a world where the interest rates, rent, petrol, electricity, a car, education for children or food on the table were easy and not a struggle any more!
I wish all those out there searching to find what they are looking for. Always do your Due Diligence!
Hope that answered your question OZ!