Manoj Kumar listed as co-founder of Mister Colibri
Back in early December of last year, I was contacted by a Brazilian national who was concerned over the MLM company ‘Mister Colibri’ and the similarities it appeared to have with the AdMatrix.
The AdMatrix being a scam run by Seven Rings International that paid members to watch Youtube videos and paid out commissions on the membership fees of new members who joined the company.
Being an obvious ponzi scheme, once the new memberships dried up and the company was no longer able to operate, the AdMatrix collapsed and management went into hiding.
Upon looking at the Mister Colibri scheme and comparing it to the AdMatrix, I found that the websites (even so far as to share the same source-code), business model, marketing material and basic layout of the two companies was near identical.
Perhaps more interesting than all that however, was the fact that unlike the AdMatrix, Seven Rings International were listed as the creators of Mister Colibri.
To my surprise, a Mr. Manoj Kumar popped up as an investor into Mister Colibri and was named by Mister Colibri members Lilian Oliveira (alias ’Lilian Matias’) on her blog ‘ColibriMakeMoney’.
Within 48 hours of going public and exposing Manoj Kumar as an investor of Mister Colibri, Oliveira removed any reference to Kumar from her website.
Less than a week later, the entire website was pulled off the internet. Quite obviously, “someone” over at Seven Rings International was unhappy at their involvement in Mister Colibri being exposed.
Why?
Manoj Kumar is none other than the CEO of Speak Asia, an Indian ponzi scheme scam that also comes under the umbrella of Seven Rings International. Amongst other things, Speak Asia are currently being investigated for money laundering.
As far as its Indian operations go, Speak Asia have transferred over a hundred million USD out of India and essentially cut and run, abandoning their Indian business operations.
As it stands now, the entire publicly known management team of Speak Asia have fled. The only real presence Speak Asia has left in India are lawyers the company employs to engage its legal battle to legalize running ponzi schemes in India.
The significance of Manoj Kumar investing in a near-identical scam in Brazil, strongly suggested that Seven Rings and Speak Asia’s money laundering efforts would thus be trackable by the authorities.
Indeed, after being tipped off by a Speak Asia panelist, India’s Economic Offenses Wing, who were already investigating Speak Asia’s money laundering efforts, began to look closer into the Speak Asia –> Seven Rings –> Manoj Kumar –> Mister Colibri money laundering operation.
After three weeks of conducting their own investigations after the link was exposed, the EOW went public and announced that there was a strong enough evidence linking Manoj Kumar and Seven Rings to Mister Colibri.
Investigations had shown that SpeakAsia used AdMatrix (registered in Holland), and another company, Seven Rings International, to launder money abroad, and that several people on boards of all three companies were common.
When contacted, Additional CP (EOW) Rajvardhan told Mumbai Mirror:
“We strongly suspect the SpeakAsia people have laundered money from India to Brazil to start this new venture. We have already established links between AdMatrix, Seven Rings International and SpeakAsia.”
The EOW went public with this announcement on December 23rd, 2011 – which (perhaps not so) co-incidentally was also roughly around the time the Mister Colibri business opportunity effectively went dead.
Shortly after the EOW went public, a popup appeared on the Mister Colibri website announcing their servers were ‘down for maintenance’. Weeks later, this message is still present on the Mister Colibri website and now members are starting to worry.
Only a few days ago, Paulo Cesar wrote
My concerns have increased the end of this year when the site undergoes maintenance for several weeks, not being able to watch the ads and therefore it is not possible to make money.
The management claimed that the servers are changing to meet the growing demand of users (60,000 +) but this suspension coincided with problems in India.
Those familiar with the AdMatrix scam will note that this is pretty much what happened when Seven Rings decided to wind up the company too. The AdMatrix website still loads but business operations ceased and those running the scam at a local level fled.
Before we get into one possible reason for Seven Rings to suspend their Mister Colibri business operations, it’s important to note that on the public record, Speak Asia CEO Manoj Kumar has vehemently denied any involvement in Mister Colibri.
A few days after the EOW went public and confirmed they were investigating money laundering links between Kumar, Mister Colibri, the AdMatrix, Seven Rings and Speak Asia, Kumar put out a YouTube video statement, in which he stated
They say that I have invested in Colibri, if they have worked so hard, why can’t they go to the ROC of brazil which can be done on the net also and they can easily find out that who are the promoters of the company. I am surely not the promoter.
They are local people from Brazil; I have no investment in the said company, not even a single naya paisa.
We’re not entirely sure who “they” are, but seeing as the investment link was confirmed by a Mister Colibri member’s website, we can only assume Kumar is talking collectively about Mister Colibri members.
Whilst Kumar claims to have no investment in Mister Colibri, the evidence against him clearly proves otherwise.
First and foremost, Kumar is publicly listed as being on the management team of Seven Rings International.
Linking Seven Rings to Speak Asia, is the fact that the Seven Rings website is hosted on the same server as the Speak Asia website. This server, currently located at IP address 113.197.34.99 in Singapore, is a private server and not open to the public.
Meanwhile linking Seven Rings to Mister Colibri, is the listing of ‘Seven Rings International FIZCO’ when new members pay their membership fees to Mister Colibri.
Mentioned here on Facebook by a Mr. Dirceu Marcal:
and also here on a screenshot of the membership payment screen of the Mister Colibri website:
As you can see Seven Rings, the company Manoj Kumar is on the management team of, clearly owns Mister Colibri. But ok, maybe Kumar only has a vested financial interest in Mister Colibri through Seven Rings…
believable, except for the fact that Mister Colibri members keep naming Kumar as a major investor of the company.
The first instance of this was on the aforementioned ‘ColibriMakeMoney’ blog (click to enlarge),
where Kumar is listed as one of the creators of Seven Rings, as well as having provided
the initial capital (millions of dollars invested in this project) for creating this platform (Mister Colibri) and the marketing strategy.
With ColibriMakeMoney pulled offline within days of Manoj Kumar being exposed, the above screenshot is currently the only proof left that this website ever even existed.
Naturally, despite most likely being responsible (through his involvement in Mister Colibri) for ordering blog owner Oliveira to remove any and all references to him on ColibriMakeMoney, Kumar claims
I have myself checked the site nothing of this sort appears or as ever appeared on this site.
Given the Seven Rings International links and fact that readers of BehindMLM saw the ColibriMakeMoney page when it was online when the story was first published on December 2nd, Kumar’s claims border on outright lies.
I say border on because it’s a half truth. With the ColibriMakeMoney website pulled offline, indeed mention of Kumar’s investment with Mister Colibri no longer appears on the site.
But ever? The screenshot clearly proves otherwise.
With ColibriMakeMoney offline, the only thing that could prove Kumar is lying would be his name surfacing elsewhere in connection with his investment into Mister Colibri.
Ladies and gentlemen, Exhibit A:
The above screenshot is from a Mister Colibri business presentation and under the title ‘FUNDADOR DA MISTER COLIBRI’ (English: ‘co-founder of Mister Colibri’), lists Manoj Kumar as being
Sócio do milionário indiano Manoj Kumar.
Fundador da Tulsient focada em soluções web para a Europa, Oriente Médio, Índia;
Fundador da Our Free Phone e da DMA;
Fabricante de dispositivos XD e WiMAX Móvel
Presidente da Confederação de Indústrias da Índia (CII)
or in English,
Member of Millionaire Indian Manoj Kumar.
Founder of Tulsient focused on solutions web for Europe, Middle East, India;
Our Founder of Free Phone and DMA;
Manufacturer of Mobile WiMAX devices and XD
President of the Confederation of Industries India (CII)
The Mister Colibri business presentation naming Kumar as a Mister Colibri founder can be viewed in full from the website ‘colibribrasilia.com.br’. Looking at the PDF information of the file itself, we can see that it was created on the 29th November, 2011 – two days after the Colibri Brasilia website went live.
Colibri Brasilia is the website of Mister Colibri member Paul Henry F. Moraes,
Name: Paul Henry F. Moraes
Location: Brasília – DF, Brazil
Tel: +55 (61) 3369-7647 (GVT)
Cel: +55 (61) 9212-6910 (CLEAR)
E-Mail: paulofmoraes@live.com
Mister Hummingbird ID: PauloMoraes
Since Affiliate : 01/07/11
Colibri Brassilia went online on the 27th November 2011 and the domain is registered to a one ‘ALVARO LUIZ CHAM JORGE’.
The relationship between Alvaro and Moraes is unclear but it appears, beyond his membership to Mister Colibri, Moraes has nothing to do with Seven Rings or Manoj Kumar.
With absolutely no motive for Mister Colibri members to name Manoj Kumar other than it being the truth as told to them by the company itself, quite clearly the use of Manoj Kumar’s name as an investor/co-founder of Mister Colibri and his management status at Seven Rings proves without a shadow of a doubt Kumar is heavily involved in the scam.
Given this, there is no other logical conclusion to draw other than that when Manoj Kumar appeared in a Youtube video on December 27th denying any and all involvement and investment in Mister Colibri, he was lying through his teeth.
With what appears to be the collapse of Mister Colibri in Brazil (the company cites server upgrades to cope with growing membership – but what, at worst that’d result in a few days downtime?), one can only wonder if it has something to do with Speak Asia promising members in India to be able to pay.
Obviously with only 60,000 members the funds Seven Rings and Kumar made from the Mister Colibri scam doesn’t even come close to the 30,000 crore INR ($1.5 billion USD) Speak Asia currently owes its panelists (as reported by the EOW after analysing Speak Asia’s backend database).
However, the funds from Brazil could explain the lavish legal representation Speak Asia, the company’s officials and associates along with AISPA have enjoyed since the company’s legal troubles started back in May.
Note that whilst the above is just a theory I’m putting forth as the timing of the Mister Colibri downtime seems way to co-incidental and exactly mimics the demise of the AdMatrix scam in India, the link between Kumar as an investor/co-founder of Mister Colibri is not.
The evidence proving Kumar’s involvement in Mister Colibri is overwhelming, whereas to date the only refute presented is Kumar’s verbal denial…
…in a Youtube video
…uploaded by an anonymous dummy account
…from an unknown location.
Kumar did claim to be at a Speak Asia Singapore office but at the end of the day all we know is that he’s standing next to a Speak Asia sign.
Kumar has very obviously lied about his involvement in Mister Colibri and use of Speak Asia’s panelist’s funds to kickstart Seven Ring’s Brazilian business operations through Mister Colibri – so really, who knows what else he is lying about.
I guess when you’ve been running ponzi scheme scams for as long as Kumar has, sooner or later your lies catch up with you.
Today marks the return to the Supreme Court of Speak Asia in the Solomon James writ 383.
As the matter is heard today, I wonder if it weighs on the minds of Speak Asia’s faithful members that not only was some of their membership money directed to Brazil to rip off unsuspecting Brazilians, but that any funds appropriated as a result of today’s hearing is probably going to be tainted with at least some of the proceeds from Seven Rings’ scam operations in Brazil.
With some Mister Colibri members who now they themselves have lost money to Manoj Kumar and Seven Rings wondering where their own money went, I guess perhaps a more pertinent question to Speak Asia’s members would be to ask if they even care.
this is really as fake 1.. his photo just copy and paste.. u behind mlm u dont have any work idiots.. every time fake or old story u publish… every time i see this i laugh at ur article.. so silly…
if thy wanted to run away thy would have gone long time ago.. but still thy r fighting in suprime court still EOW has not got any evidence to prove..
Still 8 months over but EOW or any other still invesrtigating.. if thy had got every 1 would be in jail perhaps u have forgot that..
speakasia Rock if company comes out from guilty free i will invest the money for sure.. ha ha ha… speakasia ROCKS behind Mlm SUCKS
Based on what? ColibriBrasilia and ColibriMakeMoney are owned by Mister Colibri members. Why would they lie about Kumar owning and investing (Speak Asia money) into Mister Colibri?
8 months isn’t all that much, especially when you’re talking an international scam involving multiple countries with those running the scams hiding from the law.
An investigation into TVI Express just recently wound up and was ruled on in an Australian court and that took 18 months to conclude.
@ashik
It’s not easy to run away when you have 3 businesses (or more) still in the country? Or when you need to renew your passport from time to time, or have your family still in the country?
Usually we can’t just “run away” to another country as a long term solution. Most of the time we’ll have lots of interests in the country we leave, and running away is only a short term solution.
I don’t see they have any other options than to fight the best they can, and continue to fight for as long as they can?
The fight isn’t about SpeakAsia, it’s about all the other businesses they own. If they loose the SpeakAsia fight they may loose a lot more than this single fight.
The situation in Brazil may have created a fresh money trail, possibly leading to Podium Ring International on British Virgin Islands – the real owner of SpeakAsia Online in Singapore.
As far as I have understood, the money collected in Brazil was sent to Seven Rings International FIZCO in Dubai (or Abu Dhabi)? They may have sent some of the money to other places like BVI, or maybe returned some money to India.
The hottest lead now seems to be Seven Rings International FIZCO.
Talking through his hat. Poor fellow!
I guess perhaps a more pertinent question to Speak Asia’s members would be to ask if they even care. -soapbox
NOPE
manoj kumar is a bloody smart man.
he robbed us and started colibri in brazil.
then he robbed brazil to pay legal fees in india [especially aispa’s] .
he can further rob australia to pay legal fees in brazil.
he is an international bandit who flits from country to country in his baleno car.
he stops at airports and puts up a saol signboard and records mysterious you tube videos.
hello,the relationship between seven rings, tulsient, haren ventures and saol is clearly explained in documents provided to the courts along with all financial exchanges between them.
if you all can step out of the wonderland soapbox has created,
the real picture on the ground is that the eow has finally rocked up to the supreme court today [took their time dint they?].
also the mumbai high court is very upset with the eow for continuing investigations into saol even though the supreme court has ordered a mediation settlement.
if someone somewhere in the word puts something on a blog post ,our courts are not in the least interested.
does the brazilian govt registration site list manoj kumar as an investor or co founder or delivery boy? no.
by picking something off the net soapbox tried to prove ashok bahirwani was a millionaire.is it true. no.
so children ‘www’ searches do not prove anything.
do not believe ‘www’ searches ,believe our courts.
Lol ^^ This is what happens when your daddy involved in a worldwide scam.
Clinicial denial.
I wonder how deeply involved in the scam you need to be to be ok with running from country to country ripping people off.
Bahirwani listed his own business as being worth millions, as well as being a sole trader. If your dad is running around the internet lying about his diamond business, well hey – that’s not my problem.
One thing … Manoj Kumar was never President of CII.
Only top business men or people of high caliber from India are chosen as Presidents. Here is the link : http://www.cii.in/CII_Past_presidents.aspx
On some other websites, they mentioned him as IT Chairman… and that position doesn’t exists.. LOL
@anju
What exactly are you fighting for in this case?
SAOL is only a company, so it has to be something more important than SAOL?
The business model used by SAOL has never worked, and will always create lots of problems for people involved. I don’t see this is worth fighting for?
Fighting for the interests of some people involved may be worth doing, but fighting for the business itself or the business model doesn’t seem to be worth it?
“Fighting for the right to believe in something” seems to be pretty irrational, when the “something” is a business or a business model? Especially when the business model involved reminds more of a scheme than of a real business.
Sick to find this MLM website becoming more of a Oz /chang/norway vs anju/sandeep/saol loyalists. This post is an old one and I didn’t find it exciting except for the day chosen to be posted all over again. I suspect an obvious motive.
The good news is, finally the Supreme Court of India managed to pull the proxy guys.Finally EoW representatives arrived at the court for the hearing. While the biggest dilemma of our country unfolds, we need to trust our establishment. We need to keep all information intact and wait for the decision that matters.
The court wouldn’t be able to give a green signal to a wrong company..likewise, behind mlm wouldn’t be able to stop speakasia if it has been correct in its business ethics. If SpeakAsiaonline is such a wonderful and morally correct company then BEHIND MLM and our MEDIA will have a real tough time to cope with the future.
Vise-versa imagine what happens if they were so right about a ponzi scheme all throughout???..but ..but ..but none of us have a right to conclude before it gets an official confirmation right from the premises of our court.
For whatever reason, anju seems to have gotten quite irate of late and her replies are increasingly degenerating into insults and threats… that’s the stuff I’m not publishing.
I think with all the nonsense flying around the Speak Asia facebook groups for now it’s best to ignore it all and just wait for the orders to be posted either way.
That includes ignoring Anju’s rants. In the longrun I think it offers us better coherency.
A lot of the information was simply redrafted to support one new point I hadn’t seen before, that being the naming of Kumar as co-founder of Mister Colibri in an official Mister Colibri presentation.
Co-founder is a step up from investor I’m sure you’ll agree so I thought that alone warranted a mention. Remember, these Mister Colibri members have no reason to lie… there’s simply no motive.
This is a MLM blog, let’s not overstate it’s purpose and what it is capable of.
@Parveen Dabas
The motive for posting this article today is probably related to the new information received yesterday. He received more detailed information from a couple of the readers from Brazil.
Sorting the information related to Brazil makes it easier to answer any questions. I had some problems when I tried to link between comments related to different articles a day ago.
All information posted here may not be intended to excite you. We may have to post some information related to other audiences from time to time. 🙂
SpeakAsia was stopped already in May 2011, when a news team revealed some information about faked clients etc., and when some Government agencies decided to investigate it. The outcome of the case will eventually be decided by the court system.
if speapasia returns from all hurdles i would like to become its first client and would like saol to conduct survey for my company, i am very much impressed by its new trend of participative advertisement the future of advertisement,as this was a very new kind of a concept in the market it may have some sorts of lacking due to which saol got in trouble.
I hope in the meanwhile as the problem is being fought on the saol management team would be working over the problematic lacking things and i am sure they will come out with the solution and rectify their business model so that they dont face similar odd situation in future- good luck to speakasia
According to a Colombian newspaper, Mister Colibri members are saying that this downtime is a side-effect of the expansion of the company to Russia
http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/colombia/noticias/nueva-piramide-alza-vuelo-traves-red (Spanish)
The newspaper also says that Coca-Cola and BMW deny any relation with Mister Colibri
A quote from the article:
I don’t think the money earned in Brazil was meant to pay anyone in India? This sounds too good to be true.
The EXIT-option was divided into 3 groups:
* Those who haven’t earned nothing – refund $220 ($120).
* those who have earned a little – refund $220 minus what they have earned.
* those who have earned more than original investment – “Welcome to continue in SpeakAsia”.
They only offered to refund the “subscription fee”, and that is $120 for standard panelist and $220 for Premium panelist, 26 week and 52 week subscription.
I don’t think the 30,000 crore INR can be correct?
* 30,000 crore INR = 300 billion INR = $6 billion USD
* $6 billion / 2 million = $3,000 USD per panelist
I believe this amount must include:
* Money invested initially by each panelist
* Reward Points reinvested in Panels and Subpanels
* Reward Points owed to panelists
Hi Brazilian
Thanks for the news link, i used google translator and here is the translation for everyone what has been reported in the colombian newspapers
Mister Hummingbird/Colibiri also does not have clients like SpeakAsia?, both companies whose advts they are showing and graphics they used on their website as their clients have denied any association, exactly like speakasia
But would someone from BRAZIL know that? Hmmm?
Do SpeakAsians repeat everything said by the company without verification? Quite often.
So Brazilians repeat everything said by MisColibri without verification? Quite possibly.
Cheers for that article Brazillian. I can’t really follow the non-English news so your updates are appreciated.
Is it just me or replace ‘watch
Youtube videosadvertisements’ with ‘do surveys’ and you have the exact same business model of Speak Asia?Wonder what it is, seeing as you essentially pay $300 to watch Youtube videos…
Well hello. I wonder if that means Manoj Kumar is now going to hold a press conference in Brazil and apologise again for lying.
Quite obviously this is just a simple reboot of the Speak Asia scam in Brazil but using Youtube videos instead of surveys (you have to pay someone to come up with fake surveys, Youtube videos are free).
@M_Norway
Either that or it’s being used to pay the lawyers in India or if this Russian expansion isn’t just more lies, it could be the investment capital for that.
@anuragtamrakar
Are you serious?
2 million panelists x $10 USD = $20 million USD
And I have not included any profit for the company, or panelists having multiple panels and subpanels, or the prospected goal of reaching 10 million panelists within the end of year 2011.
They will have to do a lot more than changing their whole business model to make it work for a real client.
pyramid schemes/mlm’s may have similar structures .
admatrix is similar to colibri and humming bird
pyxism is similar to global tour company
there will be examples galore ,though i am not aware of this market in depth.
that a PART of the speakasia model resembles the revenue structure of other companies is not remarkable in itself.
saol was using this mlm structure for the purpose of market aggregation for a fixed time phase at the end of which it was launching products.
products have already been sold in goa by burning RP’s.panelists were given swipe cards with their RP balance on them to buy products.that’s past proof.
soon after the company was shut down ,BEFORE it could repeat the goa success in different parts of the country.
the company’s new website showing products was ready and put up on the site.
products are lying with the customs. that’s future proof.
the company has held over 3000 trainings all over the country covering over 500 000 people, to train them on their upcoming product line.
so after the initial similarities between saol and other
mlm’s saol takes a different track.where these schemes end saol begins.
so you can argue that saol was running a ponzi scheme in it’s second phase. untrue.
in saol it is not necessary to induct new members.the eow having the website can easily confirm this, because many many panelists have no downline and were interested only in survey income.
so you can argue that saol was running a ponzi scheme because all the money paid out was from member subscriptions only.untrue.
saol has clear avenues of income but for this, wait for the supreme court matter to come through .rest assured it is there since it’s been provided to the supreme court.
the 16 th of jan is a very important date with two important matters.
castro writ in which we expect the mumbai high court ruling.
solomon writ in the supreme court
soapbox ,if you’re sensitive to insults like’ shut up ‘maybe you should do some introspection and reread the profanity you submit us panelists to. illiterate villagers comes to mind.feel free to say sorry whenever you like.
We’ve been over this.
You can’t run a ponzi scheme for a year with the excuse of ‘oh but we’re going to change our business model later’.
Criminal liability is criminal liability and ponzi schemes are illegal in India, regardless of future intent.
That’s the main reason the fluff business model Speak Asia submitted to the court was irrelevant – because it differed from the actual model used that the company was being held accountable for and investigated on.
One can only wonder, that if these additional avenues of revenue, which the EOW didn’t find despite being given full access to the entire Speak Asia website and backend, are to be revealed in court – then why on Earth have Speak Asia themselves never mentioned them beforehand with any specific clarity.
Don’t bother mentioning survey clients, the EOW have already established that was lies and Speak Asia themselves have apologised for lying. This has been further evidenced by the lack of clients backing AdMatrix and Mister Colibri.
In the absense of an order being published by the Supreme Court regarding yesterdays Solomon James writ hearing, from what I can tell the court ordered the Lahoti Court be distributed to all parties involved.
Should be interesting to hear what the EOW and other agencies have to say about it next Monday, y’know… given that none of these agencies have to date reported anything positive about Speak Asia in the process of investigating the company.
read my post again.
not ponzi because-
1]recruitment NOT compulsory
2] provable revenue stream outside of subscription money [not panel sales].
again you’re going by a press report, and i dont care if you say that they are quoting the eow. the eow’s lies are now quite evident even to you ,because their latest round of press statements have been proved false.
we have dragged the eow to the high court and now the supreme court.left to themselves they were happy just arresting people and getting the lower courts to extend their incarceration repeatedly.
let them say in our courts that there is no source of income and it’s a ponzi scheme.our lawyers are well prepared
exactly.
should be interesting to hear what the EOW and other agencies have to say about WHICH LAW saol has broken.
…recruitment doesn’t have to be compulsory in a ponzi scheme.
The EOW’s official recorded revenue generated by Speak Asia is almost a 1:1 match for membership fees.
Yet this hasn’t been proven anywhere. For the period of May 2010-May 2011 no additional revenue streams other than membership fees have been proven to exist.
Manoj Kumar, yourself, your dad or anybody else sayign there are additional revenue streams alone is not proof.
Sorry what…?
Anju says the EOW are lying so that means their announcements have been proven false.
…
…I’m not going to bother discussing this as it’s largely irrelevant, given that these cases haven’t even been heard properly yet.
What I will say though is that these same courts repeatedly denied bail to the EOW’s suspects because of the evidence the EOW had on them, that was submitted and verified in court.
While we’re on the topic, are Dandekar and Crasto out of jail yet – y’know, considering you said they were granted bail almost a week ago…
More ‘paperwork delays’?
They’ve already said it… money laundering and running a ponzi scheme. Where have you been?
Also don’t you think it’s a bit presumptious to decide that the contents of the Lahoti report are wholly positive for Speak Asia?
Well I hope they’ve got a better defense than ‘here’s a business model we’d like to submit that we never used’.
EOW: As per their business model, Speak Asia are a ponzi scheme!
SAOL Lawyers: No they’re not. Here’s a business model we never used proving otherwise.
EOW: Yeah, so Speak Asia never actually used that business model.
Judge: Wait, you never actually used this business model?
SAOL Lawyers: No, but it proves that the ponzi scheme business model we used between May 2010 and May 2011 wasn’t a ponzi scheme – even though the model itself is.
Judge: How so?
SAOL Lawyers: …
Judge: Yes…?
SAOL Lawyers: …uh, didn’t you see that Manoj Kumar YouTube video?
The law doesn’tsay “you can run a Ponzi Scheme for a period of time in order to raise money to start a legitime business”. You can’t run a Ponzi Scheme even for a second. If, for a single moment,the company worked as Ponzi scheme, it’s illegal
@Anju
So finally Anju has agreed that Surveys were not their products. The products were supposed to be introduced at a later date. And that confirms that Speakasia was running a PONZI.
Anyway even if they launch product at a later date, then the amount due to its panelist would’ve been in 1000’s of crores. And to recover that amount of money, they would have had to sell monstrous numbers of electronics. Also considering the fact many members would’ve had items like TV’s Fridge, etc. And remaining people joined SOAL purely for money (remember that they say its all about the economic empowerment of 20 Lakh members)
riffraff
the ezine is the product and surveys are the ‘work’ availabe to the panelists uptil now.
the upcoming electronics will be both a product for self consumption and ‘work’ to sell and earn money.
these products under the brand name YUG will be available to panelists and non panelists.
apart from this the company will regularly have ‘gen next’ trade fairs all over the country where leading brands will be invited to participate.the panelists can burn their reward points here as well.
before people were selling subscriptions to an ezine and earning ,now they can sell products and earn .
surveys will continue because the company will have to know at all times what the mood of it’s market is ,and also to get feedback on the products they have introduced.
i ‘THINK'[ not sure at all] in future the survey income may not be completely encashable, but a portion of the rp’s may be reserved for product purchases.
all in all still a very good deal.
and who doesn’t need household electronics,that to at killer prices?.look at the number of brands in the market.this is a dynamic market, for every new tv bought there’s an old one that conks off or needs to be upgraded.
the company will further introduce insurance products and tour packages and mobile telephony at hugely discounted rates.
i think people need this stuff more than overpriced soaps and herbal pills and juice.
This contradicts with what you stated earlier? Also no one joined SOAL for EZine. They all joined for money.
If that was the case, then SOAL could still mail copies of ezine and relax. Why fight it out in court?
Well Anju.. if company pays 500 Rs per survey.. irrespective of whether its useful or irrelevant. I may be a deaf person and still could fill surveys on audio system and SOAL will pay me (They recruited panelist left, right without any screening).
So basically in current scenario, it’ll be 100 Crore per survey (Not including the infrastructure cost involved). Imagine how many products they’ll have to sell to break even?
And considering the competition, margins and logistics involved, do you think they would be able to recover the 100 Crore and still make profits??
Welcome to
banging your head against the walltrying to discuss Speak Asia with the Bahirwanis.Anju’s in here telling us about Speak Asia’s ‘MLM structure’ and Ashok’s pumping out the AISPA updates swearing that Speak Asia ‘is absolutely not MLM’ till he’s blue in the face.
And that’s only the tip of the iceberg these last few months.
@anju
I’ll guess the basic scheme still will be illegal, even if you add a lot of legal MLM to this scheme?
The basic scheme in SAOL is to promise income and return of investment, if people participate and invest money into the scheme.
Investments are
* buying subscriptions for an ezine ($20 per year)
* buying Main Panels ($200), max 3 per ID
* buying Sub Panels ($200), max 9 per Main Panel
Investments are limited to appr. $6,000 USD per ID. Some panelists seems to have bought additional IDs, too. Most of these investments have probably been made by reinvesting Reward Points, buying additional panels.
You can’t expect this illegal part to become legal?
This has been the main (only) sources of revenue for SAOL for more than a year, until the scheme was stopped in May 2011.
And as a last point, there has been very little of the “hate to break your heart, norway” lately? It seems like you have a limited range of “weapons” to use in your daily discussions? 🙂
@anju
I don’t see why SpeakAsia and the business model is worth fighting for? “Steal from the poor and give to the rich” isn’t usually within the range of ideas people are willing to fight for?
SpeakAsia have basically lured people to invest money into a scheme, with promises of a return of money that greatly exceeds their original investments, and additional investments that will work the same way.
Some people have earned a lot of money, but the majority of people has lost most of their investments. I don’t see why this is worth fighting for?
@anju
SpeakAsia’s business model:
To be able to pay for surveys the company will need real clients that pays the company for the work done. They can’t use money from the panelists to pay for work done.
Most companies won’t need 2 million people to participate in a survey, usually they will only need a few thousands. This means that SpeakAsia would need hundreds or thousands of clients each week willing to pay for surveys. These clients would have to be willing to pay more than $10 USD for each survey.
This also means that each panelist should be limited to having only one panel, and the panel should preferrably be for free. Usually we don’t have to “invest” money to do some work for a company, other than some “starter kit” or something in MLM – sold to a price close to self cost.
I have done surveys (as an interviewer) for a professional survey company in Norway in 1997. The price they paid for each survey was around $2.5 to $3. Each interview lasted 3 to 5 minutes, and the total number of interviews was limited to 6,000 or so, within 2 weeks. They also paid for some expenses, like the use of a car to travel to different places to do the interviews.
I believe the price in India in 2012 should be lower than the price in Norway in 1997. Most companies won’t spend millions of dollars if they don’t have to.
As far as I can see, SpeakAsias business model has been flawed right from the beginning. Doing fake survey for non-existent clients isn’t a sustainable business model. Recruiting panelists and selling panels / subpanels to them isn’t sustainable, either.
I believe SpeakAsia’s management soon should be focused on other ideas than saving this company. They’re at risk of loosing a lot more than this single company and the money extracted from it.
@M_Norway
In other words you are telling ‘Run away’. And this is surprising that why is speakasia chosing to remain and fight, to you. While some competitors have already understood the model anju is saying and want to make damn sure to destroy this company.
I don’t see competitors freezing bank accounts and assets, filing money laundering cases or launching criminal investigations – only the Indian authorities.
Oh wait, you were talking about Speak Asia panelist’s ‘everybody is lying and against us’ conspiracy theories.
As you were.
You people have again started going round round in circles. The only thing which you people are not understanding is that may be speak asia is a ponzi , may be the methods employed to gather panelists be illegal, may be the cost of start up very high and the investigations and the way your blog is hell bent on justifying this as a scam, things have started looking a bit rosy.
Let me explain why?
1) The new articles coming on BMLM on speakasia has reduced. Whatever is coming is only a cut and paste of some users’ complaints on one of the articles and response is converted to articles.
2) Every respondent involved in Solomon Jemes case was present in the court to respond. This was very surprising yet a positive move
3)Even if the speakasia’s current business model may be declared ponzi, a hope has already gathered that the money put in by the innocent people (Greedy People as you might say) will be recieved back.
4)Never in the history of Supreme Court cases we have seen such a fast track hearing – There are bound to be reasons for us panelists to cheer
5)Personal Accounts of some Franchizees have been defrozen, this is sign of good things to come.
But None of the above will capture your attention as the same is for the benefit of panelists. Everything has pros and cons and have to be fought on those points.
This is the first time in case of a fraud (If any) that the hopes have been raised to recover the money fully. There has been an instance where the government backed Unit Trust of India also went bankrupt.
As it was unable to pay the mastergain unit holders the promised returns. The government was unable to help the poor and innocent people in that case. So many fraud cases have been registered but has any fraudster paid any of the victim his money back ? No. Not in my memory..
Here there is a company which is supposed to be fraud but still have been brave enough to face the courts. There has to be a merit in this case otherwise a simple and straight case of Ponzi Schemes as you are hell bent on saying would not have seen the light of supreme court and the fast track pace at which the supreme court is hearing it is unprecedent in the history of Indian Courts .
Time has come to cheer for the panelists atleast and the company too will be cheering soon.
@Sanjeev
Because this isn’t a blog dedicated to Speak Asia. When are you people going to realise this? There is no war, there is no us vs. them, there are no paid agents, I’m not working for the EOW… this a blog about MLM.
I don’t have to regurgitate whatever is pasted on Facebook every few minutes or copy and paste Bahirwani’s updates like the other cheerleading sites, the MLM industry extends far beyond the scope of Speak Asia.
Ponzi schemes are criminal matter. The Supreme Court action is civil.
The legitimacy of Speak Asia’s business model cannot be decided in civil action lawsuit. Not unless they broaden the scope of the petition itself.
Short of hearing what they have to say next Monday, I really don’t get this logic.
EOW state Speak Asia is the largest ponzi scheme they’ve ever investigated.
RBI put out a cautionary warning banks of the consequences of doing business with companies like Speak Asia that are being criminally investigated.
The ED claim Speak Asia is guilty of money laundering.
The IT dept claim Speak Asia is guilty of tax evasion.
The CID case (of which we know little about) is presumably so damning Speak Asia are fighting to stop their investigation in the Supreme Court.
How exactly is the participation of these agencies a positive for Speak Asia and those who believe the Supreme Court is going to legalise ponzi schemes in India?
Don’t bother replying with the ‘everybody is lying’ conspiracy theories, the above are what the above agencies have made public and there is nothing positive in any of it.
We’re not discussing the accuracy of the allegations made by their agencies, just looking at what they’ve all thus far said and wondering how on Earth that can be construed as being ‘positive’?
A common complaint of ponzi scheme participants is ‘why didn’t the government do anything before we lost all our money?’
A Hinstudan Times article out today highlights a large problem regarding the pro-active policing of ponzi schemes like Speak Asia:
Unfortunately the people that sign up to these scams continue to assume that a company paying out (until it collapses) equals legitimacy in the business model.
What they forget is that of course ponzi shemes initially pay out, it’s when they get too big and collapse that is the problem (new member’s membership money winds up being less than the money owed to existing members).
Now of course supporters will look at those figures and go ‘see, we’re all united – hurrah!’, but who is pushing this line? AISPA, senior panelists/franchisees and company management…
Why? They know full well if people start talking it’s only going to increase the speed of the police investigations into Speak Asia.
5)Personal Accounts of some Franchizees have been defrozen, this is sign of good things to come.-sanjeev
But bhairwani tells otherwise in his latest update. He tells that its a rumor…
Some guy on Facebook heard his upline had a savings account defrozen and decided that meant all franchisee’s bank accounts were being defrozen.
I think that’s why Sanjeev stated ‘personal account’.
Sanjeev is being honest, but he’s basing his stuff on “hearsay”, which is a fundamental mistake.
@ Sanjeev
Is this Sanjeev or Anju..even though you both post blogs here in different names..the maddening thoughts are one and the same..you are comparing the Unit 64 problem to SAOL..hahaha..
pls use your brains..Unit 64 was a Govt. of India Scheme and hence it liable to be taken care of by the Govt. Saol is not run by Govt.. hence don’t even think that the Govt. is going to bail out and pay Rs. 30,000 Crore from its pocket..hey…wake up..stop dreaming and come back into reality..
its no rocket science to understand that Rs.2300 crore cant make a payment of Rs.30000 Crores..and even then it is no longer Rs. 2300 crore.. the amount left after all this fiasco is a minuscule..
the reason SAOL is fighting this proxy war is that the original promoters/management are all from India..they just cant move off..to another country to hide..more ever usually in a Ponzi scam..the actual promoters are never revealed and just the front men are caught or exposed..
in this case 90% of people responsible have come into the limelight ..they have their bases, family,Assets etc. here in India..they just cant fly off..even if they do..they know it wont be possible to come back in this lifetime in their own name..too much to lose fighting..
hence the strategy is till the panelists are with them (and they have successfully managed to do that)..keep on creating confusion and hype on the matter…hope something definitely comes out of it..And they are spending your hard earned money on the most expensive lawyers..
be logical and rational..give me the names of some Companies..local or International who will spend Rs 100 Crores for a five minute survey of about 2 million people..now multiply that by 52..
now imagine..the same Company..let us assume it is Samsung..gets a survey done by Saol panelists..why will it pay once again for a survey from the same people where the actual no. of panelists will be much less..(a person cant give more than one opinion on one particular product..who goes to see that an actual honest survey was done..most of the Panelists are not qualified to do such surveys)..
now assume the Panelists figure reach 1 crore..so now..cost of getting one survey done from SAOL Panelist becomes Rs 500 Crore for the Company..(we are leaving the Binary Income of recuritment and RS 50 per survey done by your downline aside)..now multiply that by 52..wow..even the Fortune 500 of this World cant afford to get surveys done here…the cost is too great..
What SAOL thought they will do..strategy/business Plans is irrelevant..TV Stations/News Channel/Shipping Line/Opening a Restaurant on Moon/building Planes, Submarines etc..is simply Bull****. The sustainability of the Model is impossible..
I sure was impressed by the video I saw in the 3rd week of May..where the SAOL Management with the Press..trying to convince ..the South Indian Bald guy making a solid presentation..with his fancy English and Difficult words..wow I was sure eyewashed..till the truth hit me that this all looks good if you have Companies who will actually pay..where are they??..
At this point the NDA agreement they were talking about does not hold value if the very existence of the Company is at stake..they (SAOL) should have revealed the names of at least one good Client..to help them out of this mess..NAAAAa.(you sign NDA, we tell,)..
I am sure lots of Journalists/Eow guys will be ready to do just that..just go ahead and ask them..if EOW verifies the same and declares publickly that SAOL does have geniune client..everyone will believe them…end of chapter..start the business..voila…did you get it?
@viniben
The surprise to me is that they include “SpeakAsia will rise again”, when they probably should focus on something more important.
The ‘something more important’ stuff may be to limit the damage caused by this case, or to reduce possible damage. For some people involved this case may also cause damage to other of their interests, making them loose more than necessary.
“SpeakAsia will rise again” doesn’t seem to have the same importance anymore. In management you can’t continue to play the same card over and over again, unless it’s realistic that the card you’re playing has real winner chances.
I would have started to introduce other possible cards to play long time ago, cards that don’t include “SpeakAsia will rise again”. I would have introduced more realistic cards to play, including cards people wouldn’t have liked.
Anju’s idea of introducing more products will not make the basic business model more legal. The problem is within the basic model here. Introducing more product will only make this “an illegal scheme with lots of products attached to it”.
I am ok with all that you people are saying and I also understand the same. Thanks for the responses Mr. Y, Chang , Oz and M_norway.
Obviuosly your statement that basic model of speakasia to recruit people by paying them is a ponzi. But I would say that the idea of recruiting is ponzi sure but it was never a compulsion to do so by the company. yes People have been lured by the incentive they were paying on recruitment. Hence all this mess has been created.
I am right now in office and would surely respond to every one’s query in detail.
By the way Mr.Y , I am different from Anju. And would request you to please post by your real name, it will be highly appreciated.
@ Sanjeev
Sure it was not a compulsion to join SAOL..and as you say the incentive was so great to keep on recruiting..such was the lure that people recruited people right and left..imagine..35000 people were joining every day in May 11..
just imagine what would have happened if that guy Gautam of SAOL had not blurred in the Goa fest about their clients and the rest is history..
imagine if this all had come out in Dec,11 with over a crore of Panelists..what then..they took away Rs 900 crore then out of India..they might have taken thousands of crores in Dec,11..and if really this scheme proves to be as the EOW makes it out to be so..Thank God it happened in May and not in December.
You know..people who recruited friends,familiy and aquatints are not able to show face to anybody..what good is such money where you earn curses from your own..
just keep on reading the blogs on different websites and you will understand what I am trying to say…someone committed suicide as I read in one of the blogs some day ago..it might have lead up to more of that.
Honestly I do not understand why Panelists keep on saying that this is all a conspiracy by rivals along with EOW to stop SAOL from being a market leader..a Company who genuinely wants to help the poor people of India and gives them food and livlihood..
have they ever stood to reason out what possible gain will EOW and Media have to speak about SAOL in such a negative manner all these months.Nothing..there must be some reason they keep on arresting people related here, there must be some proof they have and believe in that they are doing what they are..
anyways all should be clear in some days when it is all out in the Supreme Court..I just pray that the Panelist’s hard earned money be given back to them and let them get on with Life..
As far as restarting of SAOL.. even if permitted by the Authorities..( in a refined way of doing Legal Business) do you think there will be enough moolah for everybody the way it used to be before..it might just become a portal where you can buy and sell cheap Chinese electronics..would you buy one for yourself or sell the same to your friends and Associates??..
taking the Survey angle out of SAOL along with the lucarative recruitment Commissions and other binaries..the pulling effect to the masses will go away..it will just become just another website..
Again, I just pray this gets over quickly so that you all get on with Life and be Happy.
Note: As I am not a Panelist, nor EOW or any other Authority,neither a Journalist nor a paid blogger of “Rival Companies” .. I think it is irrelevant to know who I am.
Just think of me as a Citizen of India who cares about people. I am an Financial Accountant and a Planner..
So ultimately it IS SpeakAsia’s fault, yes?
sanjeev
if the model was ponzi the company would not be fighting in the supreme court.
when the matter of the rajmani pil in the mumbai high court was going on, the saol matter would have gotten over there itself, in a couple of hearings.
think. why was the eow coming to mumbai high court making a plea for time and going away?
why did they not turn up in the supreme court after two notices. why did they turn up for the lahoti commitee only on the third notice?
why is the eow in the supreme court now? because it has NO choice.
the eow cannot PROVE that the company ran a ponzi scheme.
so it was avoiding courts and trying to shut down the company by arresting people to scare away the panelists who have initiated these cases.
it was repeatedly putting negative reports in the media to scare away the panelists who are the actual power behind this fight.
melvyns family have been told to convince him to withdraw his writ. think,why is he not free even after getting bail?
it is not difficult to prove ponzi schemes .the eow has been dealing with ponzi schemes for a long time and wouldn’t be avoiding court if they had a solid case in their hand in the saol matter.
i hope you realize, that if you think saol is ponzi that it can somehow be redeemed and /or get a chance to correct itself or be allowed to pay it’s panelists. not a chance. the supreme court will never engage with ponzi scheme runners and never be interested in retuning money to participants of ponzi schemes.
do you think the supreme court of india will set up mediation committees for ponzi schemers,my friend?
the supreme court heard the business model ,the eow did not turn up to protest because they had nothing to say, and so the supreme court set up the mediation commitee.
when we stand for something we should be clear what we’re standing for.i for one ,wouldn’t stand for a company i believed was a ponzi trying to reform itself.that doesn’t happen in the real world.
but the good news is we are at endgame now ,so no matter what our reasons for supporting saol ,we shall all be equal recipients of good news.best of luck to us!
Thanks Oz. Yes I know it is not a war but pure and healthy debate but some of the persons here just post for the sake of posting which some how keeps me off this blog from writing.
See what I was trying to say here was that now since everyone was present in the court, chances of this settling out soon have brightened up. Settlement would go at least towards one side and we will not be kept lingering on.
Positive doesn’t always means that case is going to be solved in our favour. Positive here is that the case is going to settle sooner than expected.
Yes that’s the point I wanted to highlight here as well. See when the companies get registered in India with RoC , they have to submit their memorandum and articles of association to Roc and get their business certified. Then the businesses have to obtain the Sales Tax / Service Tax Registrations to sell their goods/services. Again when the remittances are made to foreign country the RBI Specified form has to be submitted by the companies to take the money out. I can keep on listing much more areas where the government can easily nip these companies in the bud, but No they wait till an official complaint is registered … WHY? Isn’t it the duty of government agencies to authenticate the documents which are being submitted and the actual purpose those are being used… People believe on the government registered documents and get trapped. Why always the victim is the innocent public. Here Speakasia was neither a registered company nor was it having any sales tax / service tax registrations but the remittances were being made and received left right and centre. Isn’t this the RBI’s responsibility to control these transactions. Why do government authorities wake up late??? This is my pertinent question.. But We are standing by Speakasia just because this company also could have run away as did the other Registered Companies of India , but it did not. As somewhere quoted by Y that the promoters here have an Indian Base and they can not simply run away. I will come to this point specifically in my next comment.
I am not saying that the model is ponzi, I am just assuming that in case it is ponzi even then my replies will be the same as I have mentioned. Sorry if I have hurt your feelings Anju Ma’m
If I am basing my stuff on “hearsay” then on what basis are you commenting . “Copy paste” 🙂
Very true but why will this be taken out at all. Surveys would remain there but obviously the way they are distributed to the panelists may get altered. Like : same could be scattered amongst the various panelists according to their demographics at the first level itself rather than segregating the same after the responses are received from the panelists and then exchanging those panels on the panel exchange forum. or something even better than this We are just waiting for the final outcome now which should be there pretty soon.
I am also in the same boat.
If you are unwilling to share the identity, I will not force you.
I will differ here. The promoters are from Singapore as has been mentioned so many times. Yes, the management might be from India but that doesn;t make it a case that these people will not run away because they want to have their base in India.
They had transferred so much money as has been mentioned repeatedly on this blog, that they would have got a hiding in any country of their choice.
There is something else to this game, which is yet to see the daylight , let’s keep our fingers crossed for Lahoti’s Report contents and then we will debate further.
@Sanjeev Khanna
As far as I know these are the following active cases in the court system:
1. PIL / Lahoti Committee / Supreme Court – a case about money and Public Interest.
2. WRIT before the Bombay High Court – a case about human rights or something?
3. The Crasto / Dandekar case, involving some criminal charges.
4. Criminal cases against SpeakAsia (as a company) haven’t reached the court system yet, they are still under investigation by different Government agencies. Charges here may be for running a Ponzi scheme (or something similar), money laundering, tax evation, and maybe some other charges.
* There may be some individual cases related to this case.
I believe panelists waiting for their money will need factual and unbiased information about most of these cases, all the information they need as individuals to evaluate the situation.
I don’t think it’s wise to treat them as “one big group of people” any longer, and use “motivational speeches” that works for a group of people.
* They’ll also need factual information about the money, like how much money was frozen in India and related information.
At some point the “group feelings” and “group loyality” will be reduced, and I’ll guess most of them are more concerned about their own money than of “SpeakAsia will rise again”.
********
The current plans for “SpeakAsia will rise again” seems to be:
1. Some ruling by the Supreme Court will clear them of all criminal charges.
2. Adding products to the business model will make it legal.
3. They will be cleared from most of the charges in the High Court.
I don’t think these plans are realistic, but they may be worth specified as part of the information to the panelists. People should be offered a chance to evaluate information themselves, instead of being “served” only parts of information.
It means I don’t see any need for trying to “sell” this information as “more valuable” or “more trustworthy” than any other information.
Bahirwani’s favourite method seems to be to deliver “motivational speeches” to groups of people. I don’t think this method is useful anymore. I believe it will be better to start treating people as individuals, and release them from some of the “group loyality” that have been used before.
********
In general, I think it’s wiser to deliver factual and correct information rather than emotional statements. Most people are usually capable of handling their own feelings, and they’ll get confused when other people are trying to handle it.
@anju
Isn’t Crasto and Dandekar free yet?
They were granted bail on Friday (late), and today is Wednesday. It may look like some “Sorry, but the paperwork takes a lot of time, but it WILL be finished sooner or later.”
“Confidence is high that you’ll be out of jail before Christmas”, if the prison is run by a former “Top Networker and World Leader”.
By the way, it was nice to see that you finally seems to have recovered from the hangover following New Years Eve. You seems to be back to normal now, and maybe in the right mood to break my heart?
M_Norway : I am aware of all this and am also hoping that some new facts come to the limelight soon.
Hearsay: Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated; rumor. — Merriam-Webster
As all you have was some unsubstantiated post on Facebook, “hearsay” is exactly what you got.
I didn’t say ALL of your stuff is hearsay. I said that part about “account unfrozen” was hearsay.
So what… it’s been a week now since Crasto and Dandekar allegedly got bail and they’re still in EOW custody?
Riiiiiiiiiight.
I think it’s time to start questioning if bail was even granted in the first place.
What’s the bet “someone” thought last Monday’s Supreme Court hearing would be final and figured there’d be no harm in prematurely announcing Dandekar and Crasto had been granted bail on the Thursday beforehand – regardless of whether it actually happened or not.
The problem with SpeakAsians, and indeed, with almost ALL gullible people, is that they prefer to believe in hearsay (which I have defined above) instead of real substantiated information, such as those printed in newspapers and such.
They were encouraged by their leaders to treat real info as fiction, and hearsay as truth. Such is the tactics of a cult, in what is sometimes termed “reality distortion field”.
Bahirwani’s right hand man Aman Azad posted this on Facebook:
I guess somebody forgot to tell Bahirwani that the EOW didn’t have to give him notice if they wanted to interrogate him. No chance to go into hiding this time…
I wonder what will become of it.
Meanwhile Crasto and Dandekar are still in EOW custody, despite allegedly getting bail a week ago.
(thinking out loud here: Maybe Dandekar and/or Crasto gave up dirt on Bahirwani and the EOW didn’t want to release them whilst Bahirwani was still at large as they figured they’d rush to warn him and Bahirwani’d just go into hiding again, perhaps for good)
MoneyLife report that the EOW are establishing and investigating what we’ve already known for a long time. These cheerleaders on Facebook, AISPA and the various blogs are all in on the scams and work closely together:
This is the same EOW that senior panelists are pumping out updates on Facebook claiming they are going to rock up to court next Monday and sing the praises of Speak Asia next Monday in the Supreme Court…
Here in Brazil, when someone gets a bail, the lawyer picks the document signed by the judge in the court, takes it to the place where his client is arrested, and the person is immediately released.
Yeah that’s what happened when Bajpai and everyone else was given bail.
Perhaps the fact that they all went into hiding meand Crasto and Dandekar’s bails are not so straight forward. They can thank Bajpai and friends for that, seeing as the EOW appear to be taking no chances over the bail release of these two.
More thinking out loud: With Bahirwani’s interrogation, it’s no secret that the EOW have wanted to bring him in for over a month. He only came out of hiding (after being on the run for 6 weeks) when his lawyers got the court to agree to a 72 hour warning prior to his arrest.
Presumably if the EOW were looking to arrest Bahirwani they had dirt on him, as they’d have to present that in court in the same manner they did for Dandekar and Crasto in order to get a judge to deny Bahirwani bail.
Perhaps this interrogation by the EOW is them letting Bahirwani know what they have on him and seeing if he’ll come along quietly.
Crasto and Dandekar have been in custody for ages now, so who knows what beans they’ve spilled and on who.
Disclaimer: the above could be totally wrong, it’s just me thinking out loud and trying to make out why the EOW have brought Bahirwani in for questioning.
They used to have a similar system in India, too.
It worked well until people suddenly started to disappear. 🙂
Actually, a bail (like any other judgements) can be appealed to a higher court. It may have happened in this case.
castro and dandekar got bail one week ago.
this can be checked on the net too, but i don’t know how or where.
maybe someone reading can help.
its amazing that their ‘paper work’ is taking soooo long.
the eow is tooo busy to sign on the dotted lines.
and soapbox says the media or the police, is honest and upstanding because they are ‘answerable’ to …[who?]
The citizens of India, of course. The same ones buying their papers and paying their salaries.
Welcome back, anju.
It seems like you’re in the right mood to break my heart? 🙂
Or at least in the right mood to start planning how to do it?
There has been too little “action” in the last few weeks (or maybe days, but I have felt them like weeks).
Back to topic.
Haven’t any of them been released yet? Neither Crasto nor Dandekar?
Paperwork doesn’t take that long time, so I’ll guess EOW may have appealed the bail? That will keep them in custody for at least some days, until the appeal is handled by a higher court.
@anju
Search for “crasto dandekar court bail” or something similar?
Speak-Asia-fraud.blogspot[dot]com has some information for how to find information.
The link should lead directly to a search page.
* District name: Mumbai (menu)
* Court name: City Civil Court Mumbai (Criminal) (menu)
* Police station: 115 E.O.W. (menu)
* FIR number: 60 – Year: 2011 (input)
Status of the case: ORDER
But there was no specific order registered there, so you won’t have much use of this information.
At least you now have the chance to say “thx, norway, I really love you” without sounding too romantic. 🙂
And don’t blame me for any frustrating experience using the court search system.
Cheers Norway, I didn’t know you could search the bail stuff.
From your info I’ve located some more relevant information, so I’ll update the Dandekar and Crasto bail application article with it.
@Oz
I know there was some other information there. I was browsing through an actual court order for one of the other cases, from November 2011 (a PDF).
Anju seems to be more interested in this topic than I am, so here’s your chance to impress her (by your factual information, willingness to help, your personal charm and charisma, etc.). Never miss a chance to make a good impression. 🙂
I think the expressions “turning a blind eye” and “falling on deaf ears” may apply soon… 😉
Anju’s probably got her hands full what with the EOW picking up her father last night.
Apparently Ashok was released sometime last night after his interrogation but as of yet still no idea what it was about.
I imagine at some point today Anju will try and convince us all it was just to discuss the weather or some such.
Just a thought…
Many have asked… why did SpeakAsia fight instead of disappear like a scam “should”? Perhaps they were inspired by the Russian MMM ponzi scheme…
@Oz and Chang
I know that you soon will be asking yourself “What kind of ‘magic’ is he using? She has never been so nice before?” 🙂
Of course, this may still take some time and some further “action”, but …
@Kasey
…so what you’re saying is…
…
…Manoj Kumar and Harendar Kaur are going to be the next President and Vice-President of India!?
Yay!
Manoj Kumar’s company Tulsient Information System Pvt Ltd. was managing speakasia (TOI date:13-9-2011). May be Mister Colibri also?
This was written on this blog before we knew Ashok was in hiding from 2 months.
You’ve missed Mister Colibri. (And admatrix – Actie Index Ltd)
Also Podium Ring International while we’re at it.
Here are some of the other “court info”.
WRIT Petition 3210/2011
“SpeakAsia vs. State of Maharashtra”
“WP-For Quashing – F.I.R.”
Last date: 05.01.2012
Next date: 17.01.2012
***bombayhighcourt[dot]nic.in/
WRIT Petition 3211/2011
“SpeakAsia vs. State of Maharashtra”
“WP-For Quashing – F.I.R.”
Last date: 05.01.2012
Next date: 17.01.2012
I had to delete the direct links, since they looked like a mess in the preview.
@M_Norway
These WRIT are same as petition filed by speakasia in Andhra High court and was rejected.
@Andy
“Next date 17.01.2012” according to documents from “High Court of Mumbai”.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Here are some of the cases from Supreme Court.
NOTE: I have disabled the links because they lead to temporary textfiles.
Supreme Court Writ Petition Civil 383/2011
“SOLOMON JEMES & ORS. VERSUS UNION OF INDIA & ORS.”
Last date: 09.01.2012
Next date: 16.01.2012 ?
I have also found another case before the Supreme Court, but I’m not able to identify the case here. The order mentions “proxy counsel” for one of the parties involved.
Case Number:
7509/2011 and 7510/2011
“SPEAKASIA ONLINE PTE. LTD. VERSUS STATE OF A.P. THR. CID, HYDERABAD & ANR.”
Last date: 12.12.2011
xxxx date: 07.01.2012
Next date: 21.02.2012
Source:
****courtnic[dot]nic.in/supremecourt/temp/sr%207509-751011p.txt
I picked up most of this court information from “Speak-Asia-fraud blogspot com”. Most of this information were already known, but some of the methods for finding the information are new.
Just for the information:
TheAdMatrix FAQ
Mister Colibri FAQ
and one unknown post on April 7, 2011
@Oz (and Chang, Andy, other interested)
“FIR no. 60 2011 – City Civil Court” (as explained earlier)
The case against Mr. Dandona, dated 17. November 2011, contains a 17 page court order, with lots of details from investigation and judgment.
* Manoj Kumar Sharma seems to be “the Big Boss” (even if they don’t specify it)
* Sanjeev Sarvanath Dandona seems to be heavily involved as accountant and financial advisor.
* Tarak Bajpai seems to mostly have played a role as an important person, in the daily operations of SpeakAsia.
* and so on and so forth
The document may give some insight into how the court system works, an insight that may become valuable in later work here.
http://court.mah.nic.in/courtweb/orders/citycriminal/orders/203601018692011_1.pdf
I think EOW has given sock treatment to Ashok, thats why no speakasian is coming here today.
I may agree, since I’m not familiar with the different treatments offered by Indian police. 🙂
They may have offered some shock treatment, too.
@M_Norway: nice find, the PDF contains a trove of interesting info, including:
norway,
read the judgement carefully before even attempting to understand the system.
Love it. I’m sure we all remember little miss Anju on here assuring us all he was innocent.
Meanwhile here’s what Bahirwani at the time said:
Yes, yes… no longer involved – sure sure.
Here’s Dandona’s actual role within Speak Asia:
Basically Dandona advised Speak Asia on how to break the law and best launder their money.
Although the judge found it difficult to accept this in court (instead just accepting that it was the Kritanj Management responsible as a seperate legal entity), it’s pretty obvious what was going on here.
I hope the court regrets letting Dandona out on bail on the basis of those more directly involved then him had already been granted bail, what with everybody running away and going into hiding.
Guilty as sin.
What’s Bet there’s a similar “chart” linking Crasto, Dandekar and who knows what other members of the AISPA committee to Speak Asia’s payroll too (or one of the associated sham companies set up to handle payments).
@Andy
Whatever the interrogation was about Bahirwani and friends don’t want anybody knowing. This much is clear from the silence of AISPA and lack of updates from his mates on Facebook.
Like always, the panelists are kept in the dark by the ringleaders when something important happens that reflects badly on said ringleaders.
Apart from YUG brand, there was one gift voucher in Speak Asia’s so called future Business Model :SpeakAsia Gift Voucher of Provogue. Product Code : 11026. Offer Price : Rs. 1000.
Given below is the extract from the link http://amanazadpost.blogspot.com/2012/01/franchisees-defreezing-confusion.html
Translation: Hi Friends today i had went to SGS Mall, Pune. Approached to Provogue shop and asked seller if Speak Asia deal still exist or not, they said that SPEAK ASIA deal has been cancelled and they also mentioned that SAOL won’t start now, it is closed now……
now you my friends tell me what to do, who should we trust, i don’t understand whats happening???
There was something of interest (for the panelists) in page 14 – 15 in the court order, in relation to Lahoti Committee and the Supreme Court:
They don’t have to fear money being seized as taxes or fines, but they still have to fear how low their part of the money will be?
* 134 crore INR was frozen in India (as far as I remember)
* 460 crore INR was traceable to different foreign accounts, but that was in May or June 2011.
Still, this is very good news for the panelists in general, since most of the court system seems to mean that the money isn’t seizable.
Parts of the money involved may still be seizable as tax or fines, but largely they consider that the money belongs to the vitims of the fraud.
Thanks M_Norway. This was a useful link where in we are able to have a good insight into the courts minds.
@jp
I’m familiar with court systems from many years ago, but I will usually avoid “studying details” or acting as a “hobby lawyer”. I’m more interested in the general principles than in the details.
* being released on bail from judicial custody is the rule, not the exception.
* equality (parity) before the court, if they have released person A they should also release person B.
* the general principles in why they didn’t release Mr. Dandona on bail in this case.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The court system wouldn’t allow SpeakAsia to do any “voluntarily payments” on their own, like the use of the EXIT-option and similar solutions. They seem to think that the money will be better handled through the court system than by people involved in SpeakAsia.
They’re treating SpeakAsia more like a bancrupted company (or a criminal entity) than as a company that will rise again.
norway
the court clearly also says that they did not see any documentary evidence showing dandonas role in saol directly.
the court will not involve itself in the actual handing of payments. the courts role is more of that of a facilitator,it will instruct the rbi to amend it’s circular and it will ask the eow to return the site back to saol.
the payments will happen as before directly into panelists accounts. this in no way shows saol as a bankrupted or criminal entity.
it merely shows the supreme courts interest in helping saol pay it’s participants.
if the court saw saol as criminal it would not be involved ,it would be left to the eow to investigate and prosecute and freeze all monies and properties of the company in india. in india participants of ponzi schemes never get their money back. the money is seized by the govt as being money used to commit fraud.
think,if the supreme court saw saol as criminal, it would say
‘nothing doing.we will not allow you to pay.first come back to india [manoj, haren] and face the music’.
Ashok Bahirwani is gone for good. Now the real relationship between AISPA and SAOL will come out in public.
One more guy EOW should look upto is Aman Azad of website speakasiaonline.mobi It was evident from the beginning that AISPA is floated by SAOL itself to misguide the ongoing proceedings and panelist with the help of long time friend of Manoj Kumar Adv Abdi.
AISPA has misguided panelists right from the begining with the help of another website speakasiaonline.mobi run by some uneducated and unarticulated fellow Aman Azad by manipulating the court proceedings and presenting it in front of panelists which is then again a crime.
Ashok and aman believe in themselves as playing a very heroic role but actually they are just acting as a puppet of SAOL.
All the look alike domains of speak asia are being contested by SAOL through their legal company Ak Singh & Co,delhi (http://wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2011-1317) except http://www.speakasiaonline.mobi
why? you know it better.
It is learnt that there is a close proximity between acting COO of SAOL Ashish Dandekar and AISPA president Melvin Crasto. These 2 people are acting on the behest of Manoj Kumar, and these are the only two who have been directing updates to Ashok and Aman Azad.
This is the reason why AISPA has failed to accomplish anything as of yet rather than being a blabbermouth and will never be able to do anything for the benefit of panelist.
Another thing saol, aispa is trying to do now is to avoid franchisees and left them to face the heat of EOW,CID as they were the direct collection agent.
All the higher officials like tarak, rajeev,ashish, melvin, dondona are out and manoj and haren are on the run so the only ones left now of the front line are the saol franchisees and it seems that in future the blame of saol scam will be on the heads of these franchisees.
EOW had clearly given that hint by starting their proceedings against franchisees who are nothing more than the victim. Think you getting arrested, you don’t have phonex, ponda, abdi on ur back and definately you are not in touch with company, where will you go??..what will you do??
Your whole life will get over visiting courts proving you are not a scamster and a victim. The only thing that can save franchisees getting arrested and implicated, is to take legal remedy through supreme court and join investigation as a victim in the writ petitions before supreme court instead of sitting as ducks feeling that they are safe.
Anybody heard of people getting arrested who were involved in Solomon James writ..no..why..because they are already into supreme court.
AISPA’s online advocate anju has gone on record stating that franchisees are not the headache of AISPA, now you can imagine what does that mean. All know scam has happened and there is someone to be blamed..who will be they??
saol officials on the run or franchisees here who are helpless..history states that only innocent people get sentences in our courts and not the richer ones…nice work phonex legal..you are doing your part very cleverly and that is saving your client SAOL.
Whatever good has happened for the betterment of panelist till now has been done only by Solomon sir and his writ petition who are nowhere involved with SAOL management and so they act independently and unbiased largely for the interest of panelists.
This shows who is on whose side…beware
@M_Norway
Agreed. The fact that they don’t just order Speak Asia to pay speaks volumes about the legal credibility of the company and its business model.
There’s two issues here, getting money to people and establishign the legality of the company.
The Supreme Court appears to be caught up in a dance in trying to find out the best way to pay people, without letting the company restart business operations whilst it is under criminal investigations.
@AJ
Would love to know why Speak Asia aren’t going after Azad and the .mobi domain.
Yet another damning piece of the puzzle linking those that claim to be innocent panelists to Speak Asia corporate.
Favourtism and turning a blind eye towards Azad and his domain is obviously no co-incidence.
@anju
You forgot the important part “thx, norway, I really love you”. It seems like you’re missing all your best chances here? 🙂
You also forgot to thank Oz for “his factual information, his willingness to help, his personal charm and charisma, etc.”
The Supreme Court doesn’t seem to allow SpeakAsia to do any “voluntarily payments” on their own, because SpeakAsia doesn’t have all the money they need to pay all panelists in full.
It is more like a bankrupted company, only able to pay a dividend of what they owe to each investor. Paying some investors in full will harm the interests of other investors, so the court won’t allow any such payments.
And of course, I love you too (or three or four or five). 🙂
I donno if this is true or not, but it says Ashok Bahirwani has been arrested… http://www.speakindiaonline.com/profiles/blogs/aispa-secretary-ashok-bahirwani-has-been-arrested-by-eow-mumbai
@anju
Sorry to hear if the information is true. And I really mean it.
Interesting!
It looks like these people playing each other! Just now I got information that a guy named Manas Robin arrested in Guwahati for spreading FAKE (manipulated) NEWS Regarding Ashok Bahirwani’s Arrest…
See, both of them showing some photos also (closed faces)..
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2869649695406&set=o.193526570679578&type=1&ref=nf
Interesting. Guess Anju can’t confirm or deny the allegation?
The scene is funny, specially because of the pink pillowcase being used as an improvised mask
The picture’s falsely attributed. That was one of the Mumbai terrorist attack suspects arraigned.
.
The picture was too ridiculous to be true
And here’s the proof.
http://murderburger.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/terrorists-subdued-by-colourful-new-season-fabrics/
Wonder who that guy is and why is he posting fake photos to boost his rumors?
(That’s why you don’t take ANY news for granted, even one that you’d like to hear… I used TinEye on the picture and it came up with 4 hits dating back to 2008)
It makes him look “guilty as hell”?
“Why is he trying to hide his identity?”
“There must be a reason?”
Of course, it may be a “standard” used by the police or something, to protect people from being identified when they’re arrested. Except, a pink pillowcase doesn’t seem to be very much “standard mask” in any country (as far as I know).
Then again, they may have some “local solutions” in India (and I’m glad they don’t try to spread these solutions worldwide).
I checked that blog too…its clearly written there that pictures are not actual and used for representation only…but i am wondering why there is no official update on http://www.aispa.co.in about ashok bahirwani and everybody is turning a blind eye
Nobody in aispa is denying it..nor even anju is denying it..so i beleive that ashok bahirwani is arrested and gone for good
mobi club quoted that the admin is arvind…who is he?? personal assistant or virtual assistant to manoj kumar, ashok bahirwani or ashish dandekar?
They (speakindiaonline) have added “(pictures are not real pictures, and are used as examples only)“.
They have also added link to the original source – “The Bhaskar” – well known for made up stories presented as news.
The pictures used made it look more like a practical joke and “just for fun”, and some fun can sure be needed from time to time.
I think speakindia has nothing to do with it as it is only a social networking site.The blog post was posted by some guy named Manas Robin of Assam.
Still no news of ashok bahirwani on AISPA site and he has given updates on facebook like manoj kumar using youtube..i smell something fishy
This all happened while I was out and looking at it retrospectively, I can’t really see what Bahirwani has to gain by lying about being arrested.
On the other hand this all happened a few days ago, so the lack of updated speaks for themselves. Indeed, it was only after whoever published this information did that Bahirwani decided to say anything.
And even then, how hard is it to get a relative or friend to login to a Facebook account and publish something, but I digress – I can’t really see the point of this as sooner or later if he was arrested it’s going to get out.
Final food for thought, this was published by Aman Azad on Facebook on Thursday 12th January:
Azad didn’t mention if the notice was regarding interrogation or pending arrest and 2 days back from Thursday afternoon means if it was an arrest notice the EOW could arrest him from Friday afternoon.
It could just be entirely co-incidental that this news broke on Saturday the day after, but at this stage who knows.
Regarding the notice, as far as I know the EOW didn’t have to give notice for interrogation, only if they wanted to arrest Bahirani. So this notice Azad is talking about would probably be a notice informing Bahirwani of pending arrest or some such?
All of this is only strengthened by the fact that Bahirwani merely promises a detailed update at a later time. I mean really, how hard is it to spend 2-3 minutes detailing what transpired in a ‘cordial meeting’.
ashok bahirwani has not been arrested.he received a notice to appear in the eow office for interrogation,he spent the day there, had a cordial conversation and that was it. it goes without saying that the saol matter being subjudice he can share details only with his lawyers.
thanks norway for your concern.
some fellow manas robin ,who a few months before tried to rake up trouble ,is back from the dead it seems. he is an attention seeker and mud raker who is desperately jealous of the goodwill earned by people like bahirwani and solomon james.
he is active on speakindia run by ritesh pal. ashok bahirwani was banned from this site.
aispa is a panelist association. franchisees have a different legal position and cannot be represented by aispa.
our moral support is 100% behind saol management and franchisees. in august when the franchisees were called for interrogation around 2000 speakasians had gathered outside the eow office as a show of support.
did you not know this or are you pretending not to know? it’s fun to create controversy isn’t it?
well, it’s a little late in the day to start politics among the panelists.
the writs in the mumbai high court and the supreme court will bring this matter to conclusion very soon.
don’t forget to thank us.
What details about the ‘cordial’ interrogation could Bahirwani make public that could possibly effect legal matters regarding Speak Asia?
Furthermore, don’t panelists have a right to know? Y’know… seeing as they’re allegedly being represented and all (and Speak Asia are funding their legal appearances with panelist money).
soapbox, the panelists who are desperate to know can speak to him personally .
you are crazy if you think details of interrogations can be published online while the matter is in the courts.
And what’s then stopping them from publishing the details, assuming they don’t just get the ‘it was a cordial meeting’ line.
Hell, give me the details and I’ll publish them. Unless of course that’s not the reason and you’d prefer information wasn’t circulated.
Awesome, so the interrogation definitely has something to do with the matter before the courts and releasing any information could influence or affect the current proceedings.
I think we can all work out what the implication here is regarding Bahirwani’s involvement in Speak Asia…
@anju
Thank you, anju, for your clear and factual information, and for your tolerance with us uninformed people, and for [fill in something you like, or something from my earlier comments?].
The pictures they used made it look more like a joke than a real news-story, and this is also reflected by most of the comments here.
the above sentence stems from your poor understanding of the indian way of thinking. there is a wisdom in our culture and people seem to know when to speak and when to shut up.
there is so much info shared on a word of mouth basis that never makes it to internet sites.
sorry soapbox ,after this is over, i’ll fill you in on the details okay?
aispa update!
What? No thanks to me for being first to point out it’s fake?
Interesting, so Bahirwani no longer claims that Hon. Lahoti had ordered a blackout? Or does he think that blackout no longer applies now that Lahoti had turned in the report… almost a MONTH ago?
chang
when a document will become a public document is as per court rules and ashok bahirwani is not in control of this.
All updates from speakasia (AISPA) can be summarized like this
or
Repeating same things mentioned above. Precision marketing? Hah!
@anju
There’s something missing in the ideas? I have read Bahirwani’s updates, point a b c and the related topics.
Using the EXIT-option should normally be illegal to use as an option to pay some of the panelists, if the company has more debts than assets?
Paying some of the panelists will harm the interests of other panelists, so a court system shouldn’t normally allow such solutions.
The EXIT-option also only covered a few of the panelists, mostly newly recruited panelists with investments 6,000 INR and 11,000 INR (subscription fee for standard and premium panelist). Panelists who have invested more money will loose money if they use this option?
And YES, I have studied the EXIT-option as it have been presented on SpeakAsia’s own website. They specifically use the expression “subscription fee” for what they are willing to pay. For me it seemed more like a method to trick people into dropping their claims than a real solution.
@M_Norway
Seriously have you find anything new in those updates? It is almost always are distorted facts, no clear or precise information.
@Andy
Reading them makes me feel more sane when I return to normal conditions. And as you can see from some of my comments, it seems to be needed. 🙂
It’s interesting to note the Bahirwani-logic of the RBI involvement in all this.
The RBI to date have never investigated Speak Asia, they said themselves they couldn’t do it because ‘because it is a marketing-cum-chit fund company’.
This is the reason they’ve been to most of the legal hearings and what not that they were a party too – they have no criminal investigation into Speak Asia.
Yet you have Bahirwani claiming that
The clarification he’s talking about?
We’ve known this for how many months now, so how does it ‘pave the way’ for anything? What kind of bizarre logic do you need to subscribe to draw the conclusion that a regulator that never put the brakes on a scam because it is out of their jurisdiction stating so, means that the banks will do business with a company under criminal investigation?
There’s no connection between the banks blocking Speak Asia’s attempts to bring money into India because the RBI never mentioned Speak Asia in its cautionary ‘or placed any restrictions to pay any money to the panelists in accordance to law.’.
Anju today even went so far as to claim ‘saol got RBI clearance!!!!!!! This comment in its entirety was marked as spam as at this point, it’s clearly nonsense.
This is the same anju bahirwani who in the past has claimed:
After the EOW interrogation the otherday, her father Ashok’s update once again stresses:
We’ve known for months the RBI cautionary never mention Speak Asia because the RBI said so themselves. Yet so much importance is put on the RBI’s involvement in this all – honestly, what planet are the Bahirwanis living on?
It’s refreshing to see after Bahirwani’s last AISPA update that a fair few panelists on the various Facebook groups are calling him out on the whole ‘RBI have cleared the way with their support’ bullshit too.
Pay particular note to the quotes from Chander Jaireth, for those wondering (I’m quoting an ‘Anslem Tomas’ here), Jaireth was ‘present in the meetings tht took place between Lahoti ji and other Govt. agency..’
If he’s making these public claims and statements about Bahirwani then it’s obviously not without good reason.
don’t know pretty much about speak india but ashok bahirwani was banned from every other forum except his own website aispa for posting links to his website for personal gains, manipulating court orders and misrepresenting facts in front of panelists which is a criminal offence (or in his own words..contempt of the courts in the highest degree)
panelists recruited at earlier stage later upgraded themselves to become franchisees, they have no different legal position other than being a victim of saol scam.
More than 130 crores frozen by cbdt/eow is franchisees hard earned money which they earned as commission and not the panelist’s money. saol never gave credit to any franchisee and all the panelist’s money for subscription codes has been paid to saol’s master distributor sanjiv dondona’s kritanj management
your support (not moral) is behind saol management and vice-versa. that is truth and everybody knows it…but both aispa and saol management has left franchisees alone to face the wrath of eow..
each franchisee was handling a varied team of 10,000 to 50,000 panelists so calling in 2000 panelists for support is no big deal and can be done merely by two local franchisees only..
you wont understand it as you or ashok has never done anything substantial in mlm industry and are just a blabbermouth, you people are disillusioned that whatever you speak is fact and other just create controversies..funny..isn’t it?
Well it’s always good to take a safe stand and for you people standing for 12 lakh panelist sounds more fun than backing 150 franchisees who are the direct target of panelists and investigating agencies both.
Conclusion: I think its high time for all the franchisees to get united and take a legal remedy from supreme court by joining investigation as victims with the help of writ petition before it gets too late and they are implicated as main culprits in saol scam, as the whole management is absconding now…
everybody knows that scam has happened and someone has to be a culprit..phonex legal is doing their best to save their clients that is saol management only…so don’t be a fool and join investigation as soon as possible…its better to be safe than sorry
@anju
I don’t understand the sudden change in ashok’s attitude that he can not disclose the details of investigation done by PI shelke when on the contrary he always go on publishing each and every minute details (adding spice to it on his own) of investigation he gets on saol.
Is he scared?
That was NOT what I was referring to. I was referring to Bahirwani’s attitude that the meeting CANNOT be discussed while the meeting is in progress, and for a month AFTER the meeting was over.
Then all of a sudden, with no explanation, he did a complete 180 degree flip in attitude: let me tell you all about the meeting!
Got any inside information on the “attitude adjustment”?
hello chang
the interim lahoti report and the latest rbi letter have been filed with the mumbai high court to support the aispa writ.
once documents are filed in courts they become public documents and could be shared with the panelists.
the rbi ‘s initial cautionary circular ‘cautioned ‘ banks doing business with companies like saol which “MAY” be involved in money circulation.spaekasia was mentioned by name in this circular.
the latest letter by the rbi says it has placed no ‘restrictions’ on saol bringing in money or paying panelists.
translated it means saol is free to bring in money and the rbi will not protest. this is not my interpretation but the interpretation of senior high court lawyers like mr abdi.
banks will not refuse saol accounts on the basis of investigations by mumbai eow. they can see the rbi stand and the fact that the supreme court has set up a mediation committee.
Well duh, they’re not and never have investigated Speak Asia. They first publicly stated this back in June 2011…
Yet that’s what they’ve been doing and continue to do since mid 2011… go figure.
Uh, no. Once documents are PUBLISHED by the courts they become public. Until then they should still be sealed. Your logic holds no water.
Is this an OFFICIAL Bahirwani explanation? Or did you just invent it?
Yet that’s what they’ve been doing and continue to do since mid -soapbox
yes that’s what they’ve BEEN doing but will NOT be doing in FUTURE.
Is this an OFFICIAL Bahirwani explanation? Or did you just invent it?-chang
ashok bahirwani is not a lawyer. if any post of his contains legal matters he always clears it before aispa lawyers first.
court is running out of time.
the two saol writs which are at number 47 will hardly be heard today considering case no 19 is being heard now at 5.15 pm.
badluck.
Nothing’s changed, so why would they all of a sudden start letting money into India via Speak Asia’s known accounts?
The EOW are still investigating and the circular hasn’t changed (in that it had nothing to do with any of this)…
edit: The Solom James writ 383 in the SC has been given a new hearing date of the 6th February, 2012. No order or further information has been uploaded.
@anju
Central Banks doesn’t “instruct” other banks, but they “supervise” them in some areas. The “instructions” are usually found within different bank laws.
It means RBI never has placed any restrictions on the banks. The restrictions are found within the laws. Adding your own or Mr. Abdi’s “translation” to this doesn’t make much sense?
A “cautionary letter” is just what it say it is – “We remind you of the different laws related to …”.
It’s too bad you refer to some interpretation done by a lawyer, and don’t allow anyone to check his interpretation? It seems like RBI has the same stand as it had months ago, and nothing has really changed since then?
RBI can’t make any decision on how the laws should be interpreted, but the Supreme Court can. Thus it seems like we’re missing lots of information here, and are served unimportant information rather than important? The important information should be some decision from the Supreme Court on how they interpret different laws, or how they interpret the “rank order” between different laws.
Other important information could be Mr. Abdi’s interpretation, in his own words and not “filtered” through your own opinions.
You don’t need to “translate” information before you present it on this site. Translations are only needed when you present something to a big group of people, and the people here are more like “individuals” than “a group”. Any translation will usually make the information feel “misleading” rather than “informative”. That’s why most of us prefer to refer/link to sources if the information is important.
At the current state it seems like Mr. Abdi has misinterpreted something, and wasted time and money for his client?
It was nothing but a joke posted to sooth down the tempers of the members. You people!!! I don’t know how much serious you are.. You just read the post, don’t read the followup comments on that I suppose..
is the supreme court matter over yet?
this is the rbi saying again that it had merely cautioned the banks and has placed no restrictions on saol money.
the lahoti interim report clearly states that though the cautionary circular was not aimed directly at the company it LEAD to the stoppage of saol banking.
so hon justice lahoti has taken the view that the rbi is to blame for the closure of saol bank accounts and via his report has said this to the judges of the supreme court.
next step? saol lawyers will ask the supreme court to order the rbi to either take back it’s circular or issue a new one.
the rbi can clear the confusion created by it’s circular.
soapbox about the eow investigations don’t worry.between the high court and the supreme court our lawyers will stop them.
@Sanjeev Khanna
They hadn’t posted any comments yet when I read the blogpost. They hadn’t added the information about the pictures “being used for representation”, either.
The first comment there is probably posted late Saturday evening in a different timezone, and the first comments here are posted slightly after midnight (Saturday/Sunday), or 21:30 – 22:00 in Saturday evening if we correct for different timezones.
The joke was good, and we have already made a few comments related to it.
@anju
The circular merely highlighted existing laws and the liability that goes along with them. The circular itself isn’t law, nor does it tell the banks to do anything.
How are they suppose to change it?
‘Hey guys… we’ve reconsidered and if you do business with companies under criminal investigation, we’ve decided that despite what the law says, you’re now not liable’?
The cautionary circular is just that, a cuationary warning against doing business with companies under criminal investigation. That warning is common sense, and the retraction of the circular doesn’t change the law or potential financial liability that has meant the banks want nothing to do with Speak Asia for the last 7-8 months (or whatever it is).
There is no confusion seeing as the law and liability was the same before the cautionary and will be even if its retracted.
Not withstanding the court backed CID freezing of Speak Asia’s financial assets, which had nothing to do with the RBI cautionary.
Why would you want to stop an investigation? So we’ve gone from ‘we’re doing everything to assist the authorities (by hiding overseas and lying about our business operations)’ to ‘how dare you investigate us…’
Only criminals hide from the law and investigations.
I had translate your comments with google translate!I need help!I need knowledge about the mlm company “mister colibri”.
Is it a scam?or not?I ve don t understood all your posts about speakasia, manoj kumar, SAOL and EOW.i just want to know if mister colibri is a great opportunity for make money!
THANKS
@mister x
I suggest you to check this link(in Spanish), from a Colombian newspaper
http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/colombia/noticias/nueva-piramide-alza-vuelo-traves-red
Te sugiro que cheque este link(em espanhol) de um jornal colombiano
http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/colombia/noticias/nueva-piramide-alza-vuelo-traves-red
@mister X
The biggest credibility hit Speak Asia took in terms of establishing it as a scam was when every advertiser named by the company publicly denied any association with it, thus meaning 100% of their commissions being paid out came from membership fees.
Shouldn’t be too hard to do the same with Mister Colibri. Despite it being obvious the company is just showing members YouTube videos, approach the companies these Youtube hosted advertisements belong to and ask them if they have any advertising agreement with Mister Colibri.
Most likely they’ll deny any association with the company, which ultimately means Mister Colibri is also paying out commissions from membership fees and is a scam.
@Mr. X
Mister Colibri is a scam.
It’s not a great opportunity.
Mister Colibri is a pyramid / Ponzi.
Mister Colibri has been shut down (or have terminated their operations).
Proof Manoj Kumar and Harendar Kaur are in hiding from the Andhra Pradesh High Court:
Fugitives the lot of them, and no wonder the criminal investigations are taking so long with the games these people are playing.
This from the company that claims to be assisting the authorities with their investigations in any way they can.
What a crock!