Ashish Dandekar and Melvin Crasto’s bail hearings
Ever since the arrest of AISPA President Melvin Crasto over an unexplained $3000 payment from Speak Asia, a big question mark has hovered over his actual involvement in Speak Asia.
At a time when panelists are engaged in Supreme Court action to recover what they can after Harendar Kaur siphoned off over $100 million USD in panelist’s money to Singapore, the fact that Crasto, a mere panelist as AISPA President Ashok Bahirwani continues to profess, was receiving payments from Speak Asia raised more than a few eyebrows.
Despite proclaiming Crasto’s supposed innocence and insistence by Bahirwani that he is not ‘a promoter of SAOL’, the EOW presented enough evidence in court to convince a judge to deny Crasto bail and remand him into their custody.
After a week of further interrogation by the EOW, Crasto’s supplied information then led to the arrest of Speak Asia’s acting Chief Operating Officer (COO), Ashish Dandekar.
Before we get into Ashish Dandekar’s arrest, it’s worth noting that as per Ashok Bahirwani’s 3rd December update, ‘Melwyn asked to meet our counsel Adv. Ahmad Abdi‘.
Given that Crasto had requested no legal representation beforehand, it’s pretty obvious that in light of what the EOW had against Crasto, ‘I’m just a simple panelist and I have no idea why Speak Asia paid me $3000’ was clearly not cutting it.
So what did the EOW have on Crasto?
Well, according to one source:
Police say Crasto has received 23 lakh ($43,217 USD) in his Bank account directly from Speak Asia
Police say Crasto is like a promoter of Speak Asia as he is one of the first panelists and certainly knew that there were no customers for the surveys.
This revelation certainly accounts for the Mumbai High Court continuing to deny Crasto bail. Could it be that on December 3rd Crasto sought legal advice as to the ramifications of having received over $40,000 USD from Speak Asia despite claiming to be a simple panelist?
With business operations effectively ceased since May 2011, how many of Speak Asia’s other regular panelists have received $40,000 in kickbacks from the company over the last few months?
Certainly, Bahirwani’s charge that Crasto’s arrest was an ‘atrocity’ and a mere ploy because ‘the EOW does not want the panelists to be suitably represented before the Hon. Mr. Justice R.C. Lahoti’ appears to be questionably motivated.
By all means profess Crasto’s innocence but in addition to that, Bahirwani and AISPA much publicized writ petition (writ 3611) has been rejected now twice in court.
In the first scheduled hearing on the 9th December, before a judge dismissed the petition because it was invalid, AISPA’s legal counsel pleaded with the judge to ‘be permitted to amend the petition‘.
A judge granted this within a deadline of three days and once again the writ petition was heard on December 14th.
In it’s amended form AISPA name the EOW and an unamed party the public prosecutor argued that
1. the petition should be dismissed because ‘the complainant (Navniit Kkhosla) has not been named as party-respondent‘.
For some reason, despite seeking to quash the FIR he first lodged with police, Kkhosla’s name was absent on AISPA’s petition.
AISPA appear to be under the impression that they can just quash a member of the public’s FIR without the complainant being heard in court… thankfully, the judge is having none of it.
2. ‘the petitioner No.1 (AISPA) is not a registered association and has not been named as accused in the FIR or even thereafter‘.
In the matter of AISPA not being a registered association, this I’m assuming the EOW are using to cast doubt on the representation claims by AISPA that they legally represent all of Speak Asia’s panelists.
This is interesting as if it means something, as the EOW seem to think it does, AISPA representing panelists at the Lahoti Committee meeting should therefore be legally be invalid.
That’s a side issue as far as I’m concerned though, what’s more interesting is that for some reason AISPA are not the only listed petitioner in writ 3611.
The petitioners in writ 3611 are listed as ‘All India Speak Asia Panelist Association & Ors.‘
‘& Ors.’ of course referring to other party(s). But who, other than AISPA would protest against the arrest and interrogation of Melvin Crasto in the capacity of being the President of AISPA?
One clue is revealed in the prosecutors very specific wording,
(AISPA) has not been named as accused in the FIR.
The public prosecutor is effectively arguing that because AISPA are not directly involved in the EOW’s criminal investigation into Speak Asia (nor subsequent of Melvin Crasto), they have no legal standing to interfere in it.
To date AISPA have only ever publicly mentioned Mr.Ahmad Abdi as acting on their behalf. Writ 3611 however states the petitioners representatives as ‘Mr. Dinesh Mathur, Sr.Advocate with Mr.Ahmad Abdi & Mr.Satyaprakash Sharma i/b Abdi & Co. for Petitioners‘.
Satyaprakash appears to be working with Ahmad Abdi for Abdi & Co., but who is this Dinseh Mathur fellow and more importantly, who is he representing and who is paying his appearance fee?
Facing dismissal of their petition again, as the primary petitioner of writ 3611 AISPA once again begged the judge hearing the case to ‘for leave to amend the petition‘.
This was agreed to, but only on the following conditions:
Learned Counsel for the petitioners (AISPA and unnamed party(s)) submit that the said petitioner (AISPA) is competent to pursue the present petition.
We are not in agreement with this submission.
If the petitioner No.1 (AISPA) is an unregistered association, it is not competent to pursue relief, more so, for quashing of C.R. to which it is not a party.
We, therefore, direct the petitioners to delete petitioner No.1 (AISPA).
The removal of AISPA entirely from the writ petition they so-claimed as their own.
Additionally, there is no mention made of a petitioner no 3., and with the court noting that
petitioner No.2 has not been named in FIR. Yet the said petitioner was arrested and taken into custody and is presently in judicial custody,
it’s pretty much confirms that petitioner no. 2 is Melvin Crasto himself.
AISPA appears to have made these changes to ‘their’ writ petition and the matter as set to be heard again on Thursday 22nd December.
As it stands, if I’m understanding everything correctly, Melvin Crasto is to be named primary petitioner #1 on a writ petition, a petition arguing the invalidity of his arrest as a result of a criminal investigation into a company he recently received over $40,000 USD from.
Yeah, so I wonder how that’s going to work out for him?
One final direction from the court mentions
the petitioners to file additional paper-book to be supported by affidavit to place on record complete compilation of Writ3 3611.11
Petition (Civil) No.383/2011 filed before the Apex Court before the next date of hearing.
Petition 383 is the Solomon James writ that is currently being heard in the Suprme Court. But what this has to do with AISPA I’m not sure.
Why do AISPA need to file an affidavit to be included in the Solomon James writ 383 in relation to a writ regarding Melvin Crasto’s arrest?
Perhaps AISPA’s unconfirmed application to implead itself as a representative into the Lahoti Committee hasn’t gone as smoothly as they’d have hoped.
Furthermore, given the Mumbai High Court’s refusal to acknowledge AISPA as a body with any legal right to representation in petitions regarding Speak Asia, does this not mean the same applies to the Lahoti Committee?
Question’s I’d love to hear AISPA President Bahirwani address, but am not holding my breath to hear answered.
Getting back to Ashish Dandekar, who was arrested on information provided to the EOW by Melvin Crasto following his interrogation, another big question mark has fallen over Dandekar’s actual level of involvement in Speak Asia.
Following the arrest of Tarak Bajpai, Dandekar was made acting COO as Bajpai was unable to perform his duties.
To date, Bajpai remains in hiding and has not appeared on behalf of, or in any official capacity for Speak Asia in public since his arrest on the July 29th. That and unless anyone can prove otherwise, Ashish Dandekar has never actually been stripped of his capacity to act as COO of Speak Asia.
But what about before Bajpai was arrested… was Ashish Dandekar’s role in Speak Asia really just that of a Regional Manager?
This extract of the minutes of a Speak Asia board meeting held in Singapore on the 15th July, two weeks before Bajpai was arrested, seems to suggest otherwise:
CERTIFIED TRUE COPY OF EXTRACT OF THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD MEETING OF SPEAKASIA ONLINE LIMITED HELD ON 15 July 2011 AT Ubi Crescent, #07-68, Ubi Techpark, Singapore 408564
“Resolved that Shri. Ashish Dandekar born on 7 march 1976 s/o Mr. Vijay Dandekar, resident of (address removed) is hereby authorized to represent us in initiating and following up all legal actions instructed by us in writing, including filing of Writ Petitions, suits, Criminal petitions etc in India against any or all actions in relation to our distribution business, to engrave Advocate/s/lawyer/s/counsel to represent us before any court (Civil or Criminal), authority, tribunal, RBI, to sign petitions, Plaint, Appeal memorandum, affidavit, applications, give statements, evidence etc on our behalf.”
Resolved further that we hereby authorize Shri. Ashish Dandekr born on 7 march 1976 s/o Mr. Vijay Dandekar, resident of (address removed) on behalf of M/s Speakasiaonline Pre. Ltd (SAOL”) represent and safeguard SAOL in initiating all legal action w.r.t :
1. Criminal Contempt by Star News and
2. Defamation suit against Star News and its employees and related group organizations as necessary;
To file appear and follow up applications related to the defamation suit against Star news and related entities in Hon’ble Bombay High Court on behalf of SAOL.
Place: Singapore
Date : 15/7/2011
Sd/- (Signature reads Harender) TRUE COPY
Sd/- DIRECTOR FOR PHOENIX LEGAL
Round Seal ADVOCATES
Now given that this was a full two weeks before Bajpai, the alleged public COO of Speak Asia, was arrested, why on Earth would Speak Asia and their legal team be giving Dandekar, a mere regional manager, the authority to act on behalf of the company?
I mean, surely this matter was worthy of the full attention of the not yet arrested COO Tarak Bajpai wasn’t it?
I think from this a clear picture can be painted as to Tarak Bajpai’s actual involvement in the day-to-day running of Speak Asia and his effective role within the company.
That of course being to smile for the cameras and tell Speak Asia’s panelists everything is going to be ok, whilst Harendar Kaur quietly siphoned off over $100 million USD of panelist’s money off to Singapore.
This perfectly explains Tarak Bajpai’s complete absence from the public eye following his discharge from hospital. Behaviour to date never officially unexplained by Speak Asia, despite it being highly suspicious.
With Dandekar pretty much confirmed to be acting as COO from at least July (and who knows before that) for Speak Asia, it’s no wonder he’s become an important figure in the EOW’s investigation into Speak Asia. It also explains why the courts are refusing to grant him bail.
Much was made of Tarak Bajpai being released on bail after his arrest, but if it turns out he was just a frontman who infact did know nothing much of importance, it’s no wonder the EOW couldn’t hold him.
Dandekar on the other hand seems to be a different matter entirely, with the EOW obviously able to produce damning evidence enough in court to ensure Dandekar is remanded in custody until the EOW are finished with him.
With Crasto still in custody it’s obvious the information he provided to the EOW under interrogation led to the arrest of Dandekar. But unlike Dandekar, as of yet a clear picture of Crasto’s involvement with the company hasn’t surfaced – beyond the fact he’s received over $40,000 USD in unexplained payments from the company.
As of yet the fruits of Dandekar’s interrogation and arrest by the EOW haven’t surfaced but it’s easy to see that there aren’t too many stepping-stones between COO and any remaining India-based operators of Speak Asia.
As the EOW close in this no doubt is the reason Dandekar and Crasto are being denied bail – as at this stage, the stakes are simply too high to risk them disappearing upon release.
Looking forward, Melvin Crasto’s next bail hearing appears to have been set on Friday the 30th December (unconfirmed).
Ashish Dandekar had a bail application heard yesterday with the EOW presenting the evidence above that Dandekar was not merely acting as a regional manager for the company.
The court has reserved judgement until tomorrow, Monday the 19th December.
What’s interesting to note is that it appears the EOW’s investigation appears to have progressed beyond having to prove that Speak Asia are a ponzi scheme. Now the mere association of being involved in the company at a management level is enough to hold someone in custody whilst the investigations continue.
I’ll update this specific article with any news regarding Crasto and Dandekar’s respective bail applications and in the meantime I’ll leave you with the following thought:
When an investigative agency starts closing in on management of a company they’ve been investigating for months, that usually means only one thing…
Update 21st December 2011 – Ashish Dandekar had a bail application hearing yesterday.
Dandekar’s bail application was rejected solely on the basis that proof was presented to the court that clearly showed Dandekar was operating at a management level for Speak Asia.
It appears the criminal investigation has progressed beyond establishing that Speak Asia is a ponzi scheme, to the point now that the mere involvement of individuals in India at a management level within the company is sufficient for a court to deny them bail after arrest.
The court has withheld its order until today, so hopefully that is made public sometime in the next 24 hours. /end update
Update 23rd December 2011 – The AISPA writ 3611 is still in ‘pre-admission’ and has been postponed until the 16th January, 2012.
From what I understand AISPA have been removed altogether from this writ and Navniit Kkhosla, as the complainant behind the FIR AISPA and Crasto are questioning the validity of in their petition, has been added.
With AISPA’s removal of the writ it appears a precedent has been set to remove entirely any involvement the association seeks to have in the legal proceedings involving Speak Asia.
The judge noted that AISPA are not a registered association and as such are not able to pursue, defend or contribute to legal matters in court regarding Speak Asia – at least not in any official capacity.
This just leaves Crasto listed as a named petitioner on writ 3611 (hereby referred to as the Crasto writ). Effectively we have someone arrested who was refused bail after the police presented evidence enough in court to show his involvement in Speak Asia, presenting a petition in court attempting to stop police investigating him.
Nothing suss about that. /end update
Update 30th December 2011 – Apparently both Crasto and Dandekar are up for bail hearings today in the Mumbai High Court, so we might get to see whether the EOW are done with them or not.
In the meantime the December 22nd order from the AISPA writ 3611 (hereby referred to as the Crasto writ 3611) is up.
AISPA has been completely removed from the writ as ordered by the court and ‘Melwyn Crasto’ has been named primary petitioner along with ANR. (legalese for ‘another’).
Anju Argarwal has claimed this ‘another’ is none other than AISPA Secretary, Ashok Bahirwani.
AISPA was previously ordered removed from the Crasto writ 3611 on the reasoning that they were ‘not named as accused in the FIR or even thereafter‘.
With Bahirwani also not being named accused in the Kkhosla FIR, it stands to reason that at the next hearing, the EOW will simply move for Bahirwani to be removed from the writ on the same grounds.
With the EOW currently wanting Bahirwani for questioning, his decision to include himself on the petition appears to be a weak attempt to stop the EOW from questioning him. Why Bahirwani is afraid of being interrogated by the EOW remains unclear.
The Crasto 3611 writ was scheduled to be heard on the 22nd December but ‘due to paucity (a lack) of time‘, was not heard.
As it stands the Crasto writ 3611 names Melvin/Melwyn Crasto as primary petitioner, arguing that the FIR filed by KKhosla is invalid, therefore any subsequent criminal investigation (including the arrest of Crasto for ‘unexplained’ payments by Speak Asia) is therefore also invalid.
Quite the absurd scenario to argue that because they think the FIR is invalid, that an entire police investigation into criminal activity is invalid (given that the FIR was about non-payment to panelists).
The case has been next slated for hearing on the 16th January, 2012. /end update
Update 13th January 2012 – Whilst we wait for the 16th for the Mumbai High Court case, it does appear that Crasto and Dandekar were granted bail on the 5th January 2012.
I can’t directly link to both bail applications within the District Court website, but you can enter in ‘Mumbai’ for District Name, ‘City Civil Court (Criminal)’ for Court Name and punch in either ‘Crasto’ or ‘Dandekar’ as the Petitioner/Respondent to see the applications yourself.
Currently there are no orders posted for the 5th of January hearing so the outcome of the hearing remains unclear.
As far as I know at time of publication both Dandekar and Crasto are in the custody of the EOW, so there appears to be a holdup in the finalisation of the orders and any possible bail conditions imposed by the court.
One final point of interest, whilst Crasto is being represented by a ‘Sandeep R. Karnik’, Dandekar on the other hand is being represented by none other than ‘Phoenix Legal’.
Phoenix Legal of course being the same allegedly expensive lawyers Speak Asia are using.
One can only wonder why Speak Asia have ordered their expensive legal team to represent Dandekar in court… what does he know they don’t want getting out? /end update
Update Wednesday 18th January 2012 – The Crasto writ had a hearing yesterday on the 16th January 2012 and has been listed again for hearing on the 25th January.
In the meantime Melwin Crasto has been released from jail on bail but as it stands the bail conditions and exactly what went on in Monday’s hearing are unknown.
As far as we know, Ashish Dandekar remains in jail.
Sometime in the last 24 hours the orders of the 6th January hearing in this matter were published by the court and amongst other things concerns the matter of arrest of Ashok Bahirwani.
We learn that Ashok Bahirwani had the matter produced early ‘on the basis of the apprehension that the Investigating Officer may take precipitative action against Petitioner No.2 Ashok Bahirwani‘.
Precipatative action of course being arrest in connection to the criminal investigation currently underway by the EOW.
When asked if this was their intention,
The Public Prosecutor on instructions of the Investigating Officer has stated that as of now the Investigating Officer is not contemplating to arrest the Petitioner No.2 – Ashok Bahirwani, but the said petitioner has been called to the police station for the purpose of interrogation
Rather than be interrogated, Bahirwani instead chose to go into hiding and evade the authorities.
Not withstanding, the Public prosecutor did however state that if ‘and when any incriminating material comes on record (the EOW) may proceed to arrest the Petitioner No.2.’
If this were to happen, the court directed the EOW to ‘give 72 hours advance notice to‘ Bahirwani.
Whilst it is interesting to note Bahirwani’s fear of being interrogated by the authorities in connection with the matter, and the implication that he is by far much more involved in the criminal matters the EOW are investigating then he lets on (‘I’m just a simple panelist who never made any money’), more interesting is the difference of opinion on the Solomon James writ 383 between the parties involved.
Ashok Bahirwani asserts that ‘the entire dispute between the private parties has been referred to the Mediator by the Apex Court.’
Whereas ‘Respondent No.3 appearing in person contends that the matter referred to in the criminal complaint is not the subject matter of the mediation.‘
Interesting choice of words there from Bahirwani… personally I wouldn’t call a criminal investigation a dispute and it’s quite clear the two matters are seperate.
To date nobody has suggested the James writ and the Supreme Court are making any judgement on the criminal liability of Speak Asia running a ponzi scheme for a year until they were shut down, nor the tracing of hundreds of millions of US dollars laundered by the company – and this appears to be the focus of the EOW’s criminal investigation.
You can read the full order published by the court here, and pending the publication of the order from Monday’s hearing – the matter will be heard again on the 25th January 2012 around which point I’ll update again. /end update
Update 18th January 2012 #2 – Order is up for the 16th January Crasto writ 3611 hearing.
Dunno why they bothered listing it for hearing but it was deferred as per the petitioner stating that ‘ that the mediation proceedings are still in progress’.
The next hearing has been set for the 25th January but I imagine it will just be deferred again as it’s before the next Solomon James writ hearing date, which is February 6th.
Of interest is the last point of the order that ‘The learned APP submits that, he would like to file (a) reply affidavit, which can be filed on or before 23rd January, 2012‘.
Not sure what the specifics of the affidavit is in relation to but I imagine the EOW want to perhaps file a reply or statement that they want on the record regarding the petition.
You can read the full January 16th order for the Crasto writ 3611 petition here. /end update
There are some important observations regarding SAOL’s Board Resolution dated July 15, 2011:
1. SAOL’s name has been wrongly stated as SPEAK ASIA ONLINE LIMITED instead of SPEAK ASIA ONLINE PTE. LIMITED. In India, nobody uses the abbreviation ‘PTE’ for Private Limited company. It is not surprising that it is missing from the company’s name as stated in the Board Resolution. This serious error invalidates the basis for authority for claiming damages amounting to Rs 500 crore.
2. Ashish Dandekar’s title is stated as ‘Shri’ while his father’s title is stated as Mr. Shri is used as a title in India, mostly by government / public sector officials. No private sector company in Singapore will use Shri as a title.
3. Although Ashish Dandekar is a very important employee of SAOL, next only to COO Tarak Bajpai, his designation is not mentioned in the Board Resolution.
It appears that this Board Resolution was fabricated after the arrest of Tarak Bajpai on July 28/29, 2011 and at the instance of the persons based in India preparing the legal notice to Star TV channel.
The original fabricated draft Board Resolution probably stated “Mr. Ashish Dandekar, Acting COO …s/o Mr. Vijay Dandekar”. At that time in August, Ashish Dandekar was announced as Acting COO, but this designation could not be predated to the date of Board Meeting (July 15, 2011).
Hence, someone changed it to “Shri. Ashish Dandekar, Acting COO …s/o Mr. Vijay Dandekar” but forgot to change Dandekar’s father’s title also to ‘Shri’. There is no need to put a full stop after ‘Shri’ becauuse it is not an abbreviation like ‘Mr’. The full stop was left over because only ‘Mr’ was replaced by ‘Shri’ and deletion of full stop coming after ‘Mr’ was forgotten.
Harendar Kaur’s circular announcing Ashish Dandekar as Acting COO was probably issued as an enabling provision for him to sign the documents to pursue to defamation claim against Star TV channel.
But there was a more sinister motive behind this move. Ashish Dandekar did not realize that he was being kicked up (promoted) to be offered as another sacrificial lamb (after Tarak Bajpai and Melvin Crasto) to EOW in order to save the mastermind. Remember, Melvin Crasto was also given the ceremonial post of Chairman of AISPA.
What ever it may be, we want our hard earned money paid to speakasiaonline, without any further loss of time.
@Mohammed Bhai
You want your hard earned money repaid to you or speakasiaonline?
@Observer — interesting observation. Is the original announcement viewable somewhere so one can validate your hypothesis?
@Mohammed Iqbal — there are two ways you can do this:
1) fight the government and hope somehow SAOL can come back
(IMHO, not very likely, not with EOW keep arresting people and the fraud keep getting bigger)
or
2) help the government get to the bottom of this fraud, and hope to recover some $$$ from what’s left of this mess.
IMHO, you are NOT likely to get your reward points redeemed. It had always been largely… fictional. You may be lucky to get back SOME of the “subscription fees” you paid. But you may not get it all back.
i still have the same question…where is that circular which says Ashish Dandekar has been promoted as the COO of India operations….if you have it then please show it or else just shut up n stop misguiding people!!!!
@anuj
Had there of been a circular put out, you think the EOW would have had to have spent months investigating the money trail and then arresting and interrogating Crasto?
The EOW presenting evidence that that Dandekar is more then just a regional manager in Speak Asia is the reason he has had his bail denied. With any luck what the EOW learn by interrogating him will lead them further up the money trail.
Keen in mind these are scammers we’re dealing with here, they don’t go around publishing the details of information they are trying to hide deliberately.
The Speak Asia Board minutes from mid July should be enough to convince you, but here’s some non-official talk amongst Speak Asia members around the time of Bajpai’s arrest widely circulating what was public knowledge (but not, until the EOW investigated) recorded on paper and proveable in a court of law;
1. Speak India Discussion
2. Facebook Discussion
If you want further proof, ask yourself what exactly has Tarak Bajpai done in the official capacity of being COO of Speak Asia since his arrest.
Then ask why Bajpai was released on bail (because he was just a front COO) and Dandekar is being denied bail till the EOW are finished with him.
Also be sure to ask any senior panelists about this… they won’t deny it because it’s true. And if they do, they’re lying to your face about it as the whole EOW arrest and continued denial of bail hinges on Dandekar being proven to be senior management of Speak Asia beyond a regional manager or whatever his official title was.
@Anuj — when the OTHER SpeakAsians affirmed it, it’d be pretty hard for you to claim it didn’t happen.
If anyone’s being confusing, it’s your fellow SpeakAsians.
RANDOM COMMENTARY — this is part of 13 scam tactics… “just deny it, it did not happen”. I’ve had TVI Express supporters came onto my blog and articles claimed I must be mistaken about the arrests in China. So I showed him even MORE arrests (than I first reported), and he never came back.
Either he’s a shill for TVI Express or he’s genuinely ignorant of the facts.
Lol, with the EOW circling in and Speak Asia’s court cases being adjourned left right and centre, this is what passes for a Senior Panelist update these days:
Hilarious! …well, unless you’re a Speak Asia panelist wondering where you’re money went.
Mr. Oz,
Oh my God., i think you might be knowing all the news regarding Speak Asia after the management, it seems wherever you find Speak Asia news you might be reading & collecting the information, that was great!
it seems you are also having special interest to follow all the proceedings happening with the company both in & out.
There might be some reason or purpose for that, without a reason & purpose no one will do that work, if you say it is public interest to comment on a particular MLM company then it is simply unacceptable for Speak Asia case, because of the only reason that the level of approach & number of articles & those number of comments what you are giving which relates to Speak Asia can’t be matched with any other articles, posts, comments, etc.
Surely, there might be some reason & purpose for all the work what you are doing. Even after we see that company not operating in India but so much of news coming around from you against the company shows some strong opposition is there for this company from outsiders.
Among those category of people who talks about this company & who writes about the company in the blogs, one might have involved with the business & expecting for the money what they have given AND other category might be induced by outsiders to write against the company with some purpose or reason.
That’s for sure!
this following news hasn’t come outside anywhere except from your artcile..
You also mentioned as according to one source.
I won’t ask you from which source?
Because you might have got the news directly from the court or secret agent or news agency, whatever it may be – only thing i can tell you is.. if EOW is reading all your articles surely it’ll be easy for them to finish the case within a day.
You have almost finished all the findings in Speak Asia case by sitting in a corner of the world (in front of a computer) by using your powerful assumptions, predictions (which you say is full of correct logic) which EOW also failed to identify and come out openly and say openly in the court.
and if EOW discovers all these things, immediately they can hang those Speak Asia management people in jail within a single day. No need for them to tell one word, one sentence then & there to selected group of journalists.
Whatever it may be, everyone of us needs quick response since all of the members waiting eagerly for the final verdict. If you are getting some secret news directly from EOW which no one knows outside, then it might be easy for you to help EOW by giving all your research & findings and you can also recommend them to finish the case as early as possible which many people considers as one of the real public interest.
One thing i can finally tell you is even if company comes out clean tomorrow by fighting & winning the case with the Govt. surely you people won’t stop writing, you can say they have cheated Govt. & also they have cheated the court and come out clean wrongly. At that time, along with this company you might be start writing against court & Govt. of India also.
Waiting for as usual response for each & every question of mine above..!
The reason is simple, this is a MLM blog and Speak Asia is the biggest MLM fraud in the history of India. Why wouldn’t I write about it?
It’s certainly quite interesting to watch the scammers squirm with the police as they hunt them down. The cultish following from its members is a bit disturbing, but equally interesting to observe.
From someone inside the court hearing itself. It hasn’t appeared elsewhere because it’s really quite damning. Speak Asia and it’s senior panelists don’t want their regular panelists knowing that they’ve continued to pay management all along.
You have it arse backwards. Without the EOW’s investigation there’s a lot that i would have failed to identify.
Are you privvy to the EOW’s investigation? You sure sound confident about it.
As for the rest of your rant, the EOW are in the middle of a criminal investigation and know far more than I currently do about the Speak Asia scam. Like everybody else I can only wait and watch to see what they uncover next.
Of course not.
1. Speak Asia by their the business model used between May 2010 and May 2011 is a ponzi scheme.
2. BehindMLM is not just about Speak Asia. It was here long before Speak Asia started and will be here long after they collapse.
If by write you mean ridicule and then move on, sure. The Indian govenrment would have to be complete morons to bugger this slam dunk case up and the evidence they have against the company.
India would become a laughing stock of the business world if they allowed the largest ponzi scheme they’ve ever seen to restart operations (under the same business model) without prosecutions and fines.
This would probably be one or two articles at best and then I’d get on with the job of covering the rest of the MLM industry as best I can.
Dear Oz (soap for washing hands after toilet in India and box is useless in toilet) Yesterday (19-12-2011) there was a mediation meeting done with justice Mr. Lahoti and good news that the EOW team appeared this time. Hopefully we will get to hear some good news very soon.
JAI SPEAKASIA.
Yeah… because the involvement of the police dept that said Speak Asia was the biggest MLM fraud they have ever investigated and currently holds two management suspects under arrest obviously means ‘good news’.
Honestly, where do you pull your logic from?
Oz – But powers had already confirmed this news that EOW came to mediation meeting. You have been openly saying that this would only be a waste of time…
Now what are your comments on this presence of EOW in the mediation meeting.
Unless someone is going to publish the outcome, who’s to say the EOW didn’t simply rock up, say they’re still investigating and leave?
That’s pretty much what I said would happen if they did attend… so unless you’re going to confirm what was discussed, the EOW’s investigation is still taking precedence over whatever happens in the Lahoti Committee.
Now it looks like SpeakAsia is going to come back & start it’s business activity with newly changed & altered business plan..
Surely, old business plan is a Ponzi, everyone knows that, now let’s wait & see, as I have told already in my earlier posts like if company comes back “surely I’ll participate”, again I maintain the same.
If company comes back through the court surely huge numbers will participate, but still chance is 50-50.
Oz, what you have told is correct..
Speak Asia has to pay its penalty for running Ponzi business all these days than only they can start its newly changed or altered business model.
Why would ANY Indian join a business that was fraudulent to start with, and only PROMISED reforms but not delivered it?
It “promised” to be income opportunity. Instead, AFTER getting investigated, it claims to be “consumer empowerment”, which means they want you to SPEND money instead. THAT IS FRAUD IN ITSELF.
It has NO credibility in what it claims to be its business model (which keeps changing).
Its officers are on the run or in jail (or out on bail). Furthermore, no one really knows who’s REALLY in charge.
No, SAOL needs to die. Its name is is forever associated with scam.
If Indians would not join a business being run in India , will the foreigners like you come and join it…LoL!!! 🙂
If any thing was promised and was not delivered, it is not because the company didn’t want to operate but because it was not allowed to operate and prove that the same can be run successfully.
Let a fair playing field be given as was given to other companies who got registered but went away hiding or packed off their bags. Was speakasia allowed to get registered? No not yet.
Please ask your source, may be you may get some information. As per my understanding, this is a closed door meeting and the proceedings are bound to remain confidential and hence nothing could be made public. But it is for sure that Speakasia has moved one more step further towards victory .
At last a subtle hint that Speakasia is near to victory. Please take me along, may be I can analyse the other businesses much better with you than Your Lovely friend K.Chang. (read n instead of v in Lovely)
Is this your personal animosity with the company. Why should it die if it gets cleared by the highest court of India? Are you against the MLM or against the success of MLM as an industry which could start prospering after proper rules are formulated to run the same.
@Anti-SpeakAsian
Normally you cannot “restart” a scam after it’s been stopped by authorities, even if you change the model.
It seems like they’re alredy have similar projects like Speak Asia, anyway, so there’s no need to restart Speak Asia.
Website similer to Speak Asia:
* dgibusiness.biz (India)
* myabitads.com (India)
These two websites was mentioned in another thread here, the one related to “Manoj Kumar investing in Brazil”. I haven’t checked if they have any activity.
@Rana Ravinder Singh
Popularity in India is only temporarily, unless people from India really prefer other parts of the information here. Under normal circumstances, most readers are from the U.S.
I believe the Speak Asia stories have increased the number of readers here by 11 percent or something, mostly from India and mostly interested in Speak Asia.
I don’t think “popularity” is a main concern here. This site would have been even more “popular” in India if Oz had written some “motivational speeches”, like those you’ll find on other websites. 🙂
It’s an observation based on SAOL’s PERSISTENT PATTERN OF FRAUD (which most SAOL supporters refused to acknowledge)
I don’t speculate on things that have not happened (and in my opinion, is extremely unlikely to happen).
My stance on MLM itself has been posted several times here. Clearly, you didn’t bother to read it, and SpeakAsia is not MLM, but a pseudo-MLM scam, as it doesn’t sell anything (and still have to yet to sell anything).
Mr. Chang & Mr.OZ & Mr. M_Norway, have a look some fellow start writing against BehindMLM
Md Michael’s Blog (OzEdit: link removed, let’s not waste our time…)
And this observation is supported by what exactly? That empty space between your ears?
Clearly, the guy who post it did not read the ABOUT section.
WHY Oz don’t post his address is clearly explained there, but it’s worth a repeat: who he is or where he lives is NOT relevant to the information and analysis presented here. He’s not promoting any business over another.
It’s only the people who got a negative review that claims to have found dirt.
If Oz had used his reputation or experience in denouncing a certain company, like “I’ve been in something just like this, and this won’t work”, then who he is and what he did becomes relevant. But that is not so.
Simple and lame ad hominem attack. Been there, done that, got the scars. Plenty of people tried to do the same to me when I bust the TVI Express scam. Where are they now? Hmmm?
He’s not in India, and for your infantile insult, here’s the REAL definition:
“A thing that provides an opportunity for someone to air their views publicly.”
Which you happen to be doing, no matter how moronic it appears to be.
Why is that “good news”? You don’t know what’s said in the meeting. More blind faith on your part, yes?
Blind faith in hope won’t get your money back.
@Sanjeev Khanna
The Supreme Court is only handling the money issue, as far as I can see? They’re not “clearing” or “unclearing” the company, but they do handle an important question for the panelists.
* “Can the Government agencies seize money as fines and taxes, or does the money belong to the panelists?”
This question is related to the case (as a Public Interest case), but it isn’t the actual criminal case against Speak Asia.
A case normally goes like this:
* Investigation by different Government agencies
* Low court (Quila Court) in less serious cases. Most cases will be handled and judged in the low court, some of these cases may be appealed to a higher court.
* High Court. The Speak Asia case will probably go directly to the High Court. The small parts of the case that involves judicial custody have already been handled in the High Court in Mumbai.
* Appeal to Supreme Court in some cases. Appeals can be dismissed by the court.
Supreme Courts usually don’t handle the actual case, they handle questions about how the case has been handled in the lower court system. They’ll also handle questions about how laws should be interpreted in specific cases, and thereby creating “standards” for similar cases.
Speak Asia is currently under investigation (and people have been arrested and sentenced to judicial custody, recently).
* The case will eventually be handled in the High Court of Mumbai, some time next year.
* The Supreme Court will only be involved in the case if some of the parties decides to appeal the judgement from the High Court.
I was totally against Speak Asia & still I was against its Ponzi scheme activity from May 2010 to May 2011, when I start writing regarding the restarting of its operations or business activity with changed or altered business model, all of them in Behind MLM (supporters of Behind MLM) getting tensed & showing their opposition,
I can’t understand why all of them (supporters of Behind MLM) getting tensed & showing their opposition, now it’s the work of judiciary Or judicial system in India.
They know better than anyone else, they know better how to handle this situation and how to save all the members who totally depends on their hardly earned money what they have put in this company which ran fraudulent activity or Ponzi scheme all these days.
I will accept if higher court of this land and also Govt. of India takes the decision of restarting this company’s operation in a more legal way or legal format with new regulations or regulatory laws which suits this country only after asking the company to pay its penalty and also pay its total liability in advance to finish its due or pending payments to all its members.
First, all pending payments Or liability of the company has to become Nil, then only anyone can think about restart of its indian operations.
I hope all SpeakAsian members will be supporting for this since they are getting back their hardly earned money which has been put in this company towards the subscription.
If a person standing against that, might be not in need of the money what he or she has already paid towards subscriptions OR he / she might have got money already from some other persons who wants totally to stop the restart activity of this company also they were asked to write against the company i.e. opposing the company and it’s activity in blogs and posts.
In my view, most of them who writes totally against the company in the name of research, opinion & also mentioning company should not restart or company will not Or should not pay to its members Or company going to sell only chinese products to all its members for their reward points might be from Non-SpeakAsian groups i.e. who came from outside as rightly mentioned by Irfan below.
Till this date I was against to the company and after knowing present scenario of this company I have decided to stand in company’s side even though I’m opposing many things.
What company did is a fraudulent activity for which company has to pay its heavy penalty to Govt. of India & for the sake of lakh & lakh of its members Or panelists they have to come back & start it’s business activity legally.
@Ass Kay
I checked the blog belonging to “Speak Asia MD Michael”, and I even tried to write a comment answering his questions. He only allows other bloggers to comment, since he don’t offer any other profiles (like “Anonymous”).
I can post the comment here:
And Michael, please enable a profile like “Anonymous” if you like answers posted in your own blog. I don’t have any of the profiles you offer, since I don’t have any blog myself. You can’t expect me to create a blog just for posting an answer in your blog? All the profiles you’re offering seems to be related to blogging.
@Anti-SpeakAsian
Speak Asia didn’t have any real business model at all, they only faked to have it.
* surveys done by panelists wasn’t a real work, it was fake work – used to make the scam look more like a real company. The money they paid for this work was the panelists own money. The work wasn’t needed in the business, but it was needed to fool people to believe in the business.
To make it “real work” they need customers that will pay for the work done, and also pay a profit for the company. This means they need real customers that will pay at least 12 million USD each week (if I have calculated correctly).
1.2 million panelists * 10 USD = 12 million USD (and how many of the panelists have more than one ID?)
You simply can’t expect this company to be “cleared”, or to be “re-created” or “re-structured”. No parts of the business model was real/legal. Their only revenue was payment from the panelists.
Do you really want to join a company where you have to PAY 200 USD per year, where you only get E-zines in return? They can’t pay you for doing faked surveys, and they can’t pay you for recruiting, either, if they want to run this as a legitime business
@Anti Speak-Asian
If the company abolishes recruitment commissions and comes back with a product based business model, you can’t assume huge amounts of members will sign up. Selling products via MLM is hardly a new concept, nor revolutionary as AISPA and Speak Asia claim.
The only reason Speak Asia was growing so fast was because of the paired binary and direct recruitment commission.
Then there’s still the issue of generating revenue to cover survey commissions as well as the fact that Speak Asia have no survey clients. They is already a massive discrepency (28,000 crore) between what they took in and what they owe, so where’s the money going to come from?
And finally, even if the business model is changed, there’s still the criminal liability of running a ponzi scheme for a year. This isn’t like a parking ticket where you pay a fine and get on with life, this is corporate fraud… which means prosecutions and jail time.
Just how delusional do you have to be to think the EOW rocking up to the Lahoti Committee is a good thing for Speak Asia?
These are the guys who currently have the two highest publicly known management figures of Speak Asia under arrest (Dandekar was again denied bail just yesterday on the EOW’s evidence against him showing that he is management), and have publicly declared Speak Asia to be the biggest MLM fraud they’ve ever investigated.
They rock up, say their investigation is continuing and go home. Back to square 1 with the committee.
Furthermore, the Lahoti Committee’s only charge is to ‘explore the possibility‘ of payment to panelists.
1. Speak Asia don’t have 30,000 crore
2. No bank will do business with them until the criminal investigations and any resulting court action is concluded.
The Committee has nothing to do with the criminal investigation and/or deciding if Speak Asia should or should not restart business operations. The writ petition it was formed on is a civil complaint by a panelist demanding money owed to them by Speak Asia. Nothing more.
Regarding the dates, I moved some articles from OzSoapbox on Liberty League International authored in 2009. That’s why they appear here before the domain BehindMLM was registered in 2010.
No big mystery and that will be the end of entertaining Speak Asia’s members desperate conspiracy theories against this site.
First of all, you’re mixing issues.
Issue a: should company get “restarted”
Issue b: should company pay its members
Issue c: should company sell Chinese TVs and whatnot
Issue d: what happens to the “reward points”
You’re clumping them together as if they are all the same issue, when they are NOT the same issues.
Issue B: Nobody is saying the company shouldn’t pay. We’re talking about the company’s ABILITY to pay. EOW have seized, what? a few hundred crore? Is that enough to return the subscription fee to all 1.2 million “panelists”? You do the math. You really expect Harendar Kaur and Manoj Kumar return some of that money that went to Singapore back to India? No, you have to make do with what’s left!
Issue D: if there’s no money to even refund all the subscription fees, you can forget about redeeming any of the reward points. Even if you sell all those TVs sitting in Customs.
Issue C: if there’s no TV to sell (that’s a part of Speak Asia’s assets that must be sold to repay the panelists) then there’s no business, is there?
Issue A: if there’s no business, then there’s nothing to start, is there?
Why support a company that had ALREADY LIED TO YOU, as you ALREADY ADMITTED?
What I meant to say is there are some VERY LOGICAL reasons to NOT support “restart” of SpeakAsia. Thus, any one who must resort to “conspiracy theories” like “you must be employed by a competitor”, is simply AVOIDING logic and reality.
Updated this article with information on Ashish Dandekar’s Tuesday December 20th bail application (it was rejected).
@M_Norway
I’m nuking further discussion on it as it’s just a waste of time.
Sanjeev Khannna tried to bring up this blog a few weeks ago (suspiciously almost immediately after it was created) to detract attention away from the Speak Asia here.
Given that the nonsense there is easily disproven I don’t think it’s worth even addressing or entertaining.
Discussion on authors of articles and comments on BehindMLM has no bearing on the information here, so let’s stick to dissecting and discussing the information before us.
Panelists are free to discuss their wild theories about this site and those that comment here elsewhere.
Suppose a company having lots of people’s money (like public listed) is being investigated for Narcotic Drugs. Now upon facing investigation company says we want to change our business model and we will produce medical drugs.
Are you suggesting to allow the company to operate with it’s *new* business model?
I have said before that EOW was present in this matter 7-Sep-2011 and this is not the first time.
And the comment of Mr. Shelke is on AISPA or it’s members.
Interesting that Shelke’s comments from September show that even now in December, the EOW have their doubts about the petitioners.
(This is the AISPA PIL that was withdrawn because of the Solomon James writ wasn’t it?)
The EOW rocked up to last Monday’s Lahoti Committee hearing and stated that ‘the petitioners’ credentials need to be checked.’
@Oz, K. Chang
I wonder if senior members can also be included? They may not be employees but must be deeply involved. This is a general question no need to answer in context related to speakasia. I mean you guys have studied so many MLM frauds what could be the outcome for people like senior speakasia members.
After all the scam operators usually don’t get caught and people have no direct link with them. While the senior members are locals who may suffer the most.
They most likely can as promoters of the scheme but it needs to be legally established as an illegal ponzi scheme first.
That’s not going to happen till charges are filed in court. At this stage the EOW are busy interrogating Crasto and Dandekar and no doubt following up on the information gleaned from them. Where that leads remains to be seen.
So as per your view, you guys have given all the Logical reasons to NOT support restart of SpeakAsia…
By the way i can sum-up what you believe on SpeakAsia and what you are expecting finally from SpeakAsia management:
1. You believe SpeakAsia is not having enough funds with them to pay all of its panelists.
2(a). One group among you says, even if they have enough funds with them they should not pay to get good name from the panelists.
2(b). Another group among you says, even if they have enough funds with them to pay all its panelists, they should pay all the money that is., distribute the total liability to all its panelists and they need to shut down their business immediately and get lost.
3. Everyone among you talks about Speak Asia going to sell Chinese products and it’s Ponzi scheme, money circulation, etc., but no one talks about its other business part with selling of high class branded products which they have promised and showed up in Goa in the month of May 2011 along with their own branded (YuG) chinese products (as you say).
4. The need for you to talk louder and act against this company & write against this company up-to this level seems to be – surely a competitor employs you Or you must be employed by a competitor.
5. If you say Speak Asia is a fraud or Ponzi scheme with logic & reality I too can say you are employed by a competitor Or a competitor employs you to do all these works from which each one of you were paid – it’s also with pure logic & reality.
6. Further I can say how & why –
a competitor employs you? (Or) you are employed by a competitor!
(i) there is no need of any private agency to show its strong opposition like this constantly and regularly so often from the day company went in problem.
(ii) there is no need of any private agency which is not connected in any activity with the company which still wants to keep on writing all its opinions, predictions, assumptions, views against a company.
(iii) there is no need of any private agency to keep on trying to pull company’s panelists to read all their views, opinions, predictions, assumptions which you say is full of logic & realities.
(iv) there is no need of any private agency to divert the attention of panelists by giving negative views, opinions, predictions & assumptions to a very worst level only for the purpose of making them or trying them to divert their attention & level of thinking totally to a new & negative circle.
(v) it is very clear that by using the medium called Behind MLM which you are telling as it was created out of a genuine interest in the MLM industry and a desire to provide the public with relevant and accurate MLM information, news and company reviews “without getting even a single penny from outsiders” seems to be totally a big lie by the way everyone looks at the discussions, predictions, assumptions, opinions what you have given for Speak Asia till this date.
People understand so well about your actual face & your original role in this drama! Don’t try to cheat the public to getting the money & publishing in the name of true logic & realities.
“Now everyone can understand the true face or the true colour of yours…”
Ugh, another Speak Asia shill…
You cannot pay your way out of running a ponzi scheme. This is a crime that results in prosecutions and jail time.
Because it’s irrelevant to the current case. Promised is the key word there. You can’t negate the criminal liability of running a ponzi scheme just because you promise to do something later.
Yawn.
Yawn.
You seem to be surprised that a blog about the MLM industry features articles on MLM companies… are you surprised often by revelations such as this?
I can only imagine the jaw dropping spectacle it must have been when you realised a newspaper contains news, a hospital contains doctors or a carton of orange juice indeed is full of orange juice.
Only those directly involved in Speak Asia would wish their activities to go unnoticed. What problem do you have with the discussion of all of the information before us.
You seem to favour the censored positive hype that borders on cultike behaviour found on Facebook and Speak Asia’s cheerleading blogs.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there is nothing positive to be said about the largest ponzi scheme India has ever seen. You’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
In that you just made all that up and quoted out of your arse, sure it is a lie – on your behalf.
I’m not going to entertain fictional quotes and attributions. The content on BehindMLM speaks for itself.
Exhibit A: The deluded mind of someone caught right in the middle of the Speak Aisa cult.
BehindMLM was around long before Speak Asia existed and will hopefully be around long after.
Sorry Irfan, did you have anything of value to add to the discussion or can we chalk you as yet another brainwashed panelist with nothing useful to contribute other than wild speculations and theories about the author of the information here, as opposed to addressing the information itself?
I have. I don’t know about Oz.
Okay, go.
The amount frozen by EOW has been published in various newspapers. I believe the figure is about… 400 or so crores. Someone can double-check me on that. Divide that by 1.2 million panelists, and that’s… about 3300 rupees each.
Given that you pay 11000 to join, you’ve lost 70% each, even if every penny can be distributed (and you won’t, since Phoenix legal needs to be paid)
Even if EOW was able to suddenly discover another 600 crore worth of money, that’s STILL not enough to repay all the subscription fees to every member. Do the math yourself.
Who said that? I certainly didn’t. I said they can’t.
But they can’t pay. The math is clear. And a fraud cannot be allowed to continue.
Because this alleged business model was NEVER IMPLEMENTED, and it was NEVER MENTIONED until AFTER Star News expose. In other words, IT DID NOT EXIST UNTIL THEN.
Sure, there’s supposedly a piece of paper that says there’s some TVs sitting in a container in Customs. Those TV’s cost at best 40 crore. So? What exactly DOES that prove? Nothing.
Given the previous lies told by the SAOL management, such as admission by Manoj Kumar that there was no survey clients, this alleged business model should be considered with extreme skepticism, and you want us to consider it as the truth when there is really no other corroborating evidence. Nope.
I’ve already told you that there’s plenty of LOGICAL reasons. So why do you persist on adding a “personal angle” without proof?
It’s NOT logical because there are PLENTY of possible reasons to say SAOL is fraud, the most obvious of which is, of course, because it IS fraud.
Yet you are somehow fixated on this alternate explanation for which you have NO PROOF, when there’s PLENTY OF PROOF for the OTHER REASON.
Thus, you are not being logical.
By your logic, I can say you must be an accomplice of Harendar Kaur and Manoj Kumar and all the other fraudsters because that’s the only “logical” reason you have to attack the critics of SAOL, yes? I have no proof, but accusation makes sense within context of itself.
THAT is the mind trap you’ve fallen into.
And NO, I am NOT accusing you. I’m merely using you as an example to point out problem in your logic.
That is because you come with an ASSUMPTION: that SAOL is innocent. We have no such preconception.
Wrong. It means YOU can’t think of a reason. Don’t assume your own viewpoint as universal.
Besides, this website is named BehindMLM, and SAOL is the biggest MLM fraud in recent years.
Again, you refuse to acknowledge there are other perfectly valid reasons to do what you consider to be “odd” behavior.
Do you Indians read no report on Bollywood actors or actresses? You only read one review and that’s it? You don’t care about what happens later? Of course not. You do care.
Same here. Oz cares about MLM, and I care about busting scams. So he keeps writing about it, and I keep commenting on it.
“pull company’s panelists to read all their views”… You mean we are ATTRACTING SAOL panelists to read Oz’s analysis?
Again, you fail to consider the much simpler explanation: people want to read Oz because he doesn’t care about the official “all is well, trust us” SAOL message. He gets info, he publishes info, and he publishes his analysis of that info, and people read it because it’s better than the void from Bahirwani and the rest.
What exactly is there to be “positive” about SpeakAsia, except self-delusion? Name one positive thing that has happened? How is it Oz’s fault if all the news indicate that SAOL is scam and fraud?
Again, you came in with an assumption, that SAOL is innocent, and your presumption has caused you to miss many facts, such as this website had been around long before SpeakAsia existed. Each of your “points” is caused by your particular blindspot and post-facto justification of your presumption.
The truth is you are here because you support SpeakAsia, and therefore any critic of SpeakAsia is your enemy.
Unfortunately, all this “logic” you claim to have that “exposes” Oz and BehindMLM is quite laughable. They all stem from your presumption, and none of it is supported by any evidence other than your presumption.
It can be summed up as circular logic.
@Andy
This may differ from country to country, but they usually don’t prosecute ordinary members in a pyramid/Ponzi. They may prosecute local leaders if they’re heavily involved in the scam, more involved than just being a local leader.
I consider it to be a greater risk of “penalties” for tax evation. This may include prosecution for a few, but tax penalties are most often handled outside court.
I have studied a few court cases in Norway, and a few court cases in the U.S. Usually there is very little risk of being prosecuted, unless you’re very close to the top of the scheme, and are heavily involved in some criminal activity. The police are more eager to prosecute organizers than other kinds of leaders.
I haven’t studied how Speak Asia was organized, but I believe some people must have been involved in money laundering? I’ll guess the money laundering was done by Manoj Kumar or something similar – a central person instead of a local leader.
NOTE:
I haven’t studied laws, but I try to make “qualified guesses”. These guesses are never very accurate, but usually I will be able to identify some “main points”.
@M_Norway Thanks for the response.
Actually what I believe is that without local support you cannot operate a fraudulent scheme and surely cannot cover masses. So if someone joins such scheme in the beginning, knowing that it will fall apart in the long run but they will earn enough than their motivations are questionable. May be they will stop joining such schemes and luring others if they know the *risk involved*.
My intention is mostly to stop innocent people getting robbed by cheaters. I know innocent is not the proper word here because most of the people join by greed to earn free money. But at least we try to educate them and save a few.
The question is… what defines a “senior member”?
That’s the saddest thing about pyramid schemes: participants are turned into scammer’s ACCOMPLICES! (And it is a VERY valid criticism of MLM in general as well, but that’s for another day)
Any way, I think Observer called them ‘Apex Panelists’.
In the US and Canada, usually only people at the VERY TOP are nabbed by police. The rest are usually considered as victims. Usually the very top is limited to a dozen people or less. We’re basically talking about the “board”, the CEO, VP, and so on. The executive council, so to speak.
However, EOW seems to have tipped their hand in claiming that at least one of the so-called “panelists” are in fact getting A LOT of money directly from SAOL, and thus is far more “senior” than he appears to be.
Yes, I’m referring to Crasto, but one wonders… are there more? Who else may be getting money from SAOL under the table to drag out the investigation as long as possible?
And how do you go after these “fake” panelists? EOW’s doing that… by tracing the money. It is their specialty, after all.
is anybody feeling sorry for the eow yet?
in the mumbai high court rajmani pil hearing all the eow could splutter up was -boohoo the petitioners are the ‘management ‘of saol.
then they get their asses kicked, by first the magistrate in melvyn’s bail hearing ,and then by the judges in the aispa criminal writ in the mumbai high court, and are finally FORCED to appear before the lahoti committee.
once again they go -boohoo,the petitioners are management of saol.
at this rate the eow is going to have to prove that the 1.5 million people who are standing behind the company are all MANAGEMENT.
i bet the supreme court will take them seriously.
the rajmani pil is gone ,dismissed by the judge, as the petitioners refused to withdraw it .
so now the eow is investigating saol on the basis of a single fir registered by a person of questionable character
as was brought out by saol lawyers [ponda] in the matter of ashish dandekars bail hearing.
on the basis of ONE fir how long can they keep on arresting people not EVEN mentioned in the said fir.
this anarchy will soon be stopped because we refuse to stand for it and will fight it, in the court of law.
judicial processes just take time that’s all.
for the benefit of speakasians i would like to say,[though i’m sure everybody already knows this] that the 43000 odd dollars in melvyn’s account are the survey income and RP’s he en-cashed upto the closure of the banking channels.
apparently, as the eow keeps telling the magistrate, they do not understand why saol was paying melvyn.
anyhow ,now that the eow will have to drag it’s ass to the supreme court, our senior counsel will explain to them once and for all, WHY saol was paying money to melvyn and 1.5 million other speakasians.
and really, ALL the eow really needs to do is PROVE saol is a ponzi scheme.all this time and energy wasted in crying about the petitioners was really not required.
but if they have NOTHING more in their bag then god hep them.
@ Anju Agarwal,
I think you feel EOW has EGO clash over the issue and they are not accepting their mistake, Am I right?
Also, you can tell there might be someone behind this issue, many people feel there is a strong political background behind them. Let us wait & see now how things get in shape & finish..!
@anju
Speak Asia has had everything they’ve filed adjourned till next year. The Lahoti Committee appears to be useless and AISPA have been forced to remove themselves
Not withstanding the fact that the President of AISPA is a paid shill of Speak Asia’s – proven in court as it’s the reason Crasto is still behind bars.
I think the EOW are going fine. They’ve clearly progressed beyond the question of whether Speak Asia are a ponzi scheme or not as a judge continues to deny bail to acting COO Ashish Dandekar based on evidence presented that proves he was management.
The status of the FIR is now irrelevant to the criminal investigations by the various authorities. The EOW and other agencies willnot withdraw their investigations into Speak Asia over the status of the FIR. They’ve found evidence of fraud and as such the investigations stand on their own merit.
AISPA had to throw themselves off their petition because the judge said they had no authority in the matter. Last I heard. Additionally all the parties required to be served haven’t as of yet – without which AISPA are walking into a dismissal of their move to quash the FIR tommorow.
Meanwhile Speka Asia’s attempts to stop police investigating them was adjourned till when, Feburary was it? They sent in a proxy lawyer who was effectively useless and failed to even serve the EOW properly.
Sure sure… this is why a judge continues to deny him bail over it. Crasto is guilty of receiving kickbacks as charged and will remain in custody until the EOW are done grilling him.
That’s not speculation, that’s what’s happening.
are jerks and greedy people want to earn easy money
Nothing to do with character of the party who filed the FIR. Yes it is questionable but you have to prove everything to the court and then also it doesn’t mean that the FIR will not be investigated.
At present it is not remained the case due to one FIR. Multiple departments of government are involved with other matters wiz tax evasion, illegal transfer of money, illegal imports of goods, and many more I guess.
$43000 survey income will require more than 500 months as per the speakasia business model otherwise it is just recruitment income. And yes it was before the banking channel was closed as you have mentioned if it was the case (I don’t know when the payment was done).
Only people who believe everything spun by AISPA, whose allegiance is now suspect with arrest of Crasto.
Great! So our suspicion is correct, now confirmed by Anju! That was indeed what EOW presented to the court!
And it is a very valid point: can someone sue themselves?
But apparently Anju considers that question hilarious.
Nope, just those who had taken SAOL money under the table, and thus is more then mere “panelists”. Didn’t you say at one time there were no “senior panelists”? Or did I mistaken you for someone else?
And you can prove this, how?
Now, now, now… Don’t be so hasty. I’m sure many of there were merely… mislead by the various leaders and cheerers (hey, I see one over there!) 😀
@Andy
I believe some of the Senior members may have been recruited through Seven Rings in 2008 and 2009, presented to them as “franchise”. But I don’t have much information about Seven Rings’ operations in 2008 and 2009.
for single panel and about 50 months for 9 panels (The maximum allowed I guess)
@K. Chang I don’t have any problem with any members of any scheme. It’s just Anju she constantly avoids direct questions and posts all nonsense without any proof or logic. She is just wasting everybody’s time and does not contribute anything to a healthy discussion here.
I am telling all this logic what you claim is laughable but you were telling vice-versa. Everyone of us going to see whose logic is laughable? whose logic is serious?
First.., let them (EOW) prove Speak Asia is a Ponzi scheme with their evidence in the court. Till then whatever we keep on saying or sharing here will not be valuable or useful. Everything you claim will be allegations against the company. Similarly everything what EOW claims will also be allegations against the company which should be proved in the court.
Money Circulation, No clients, Money Laundering, Ponzi Scheme, Pyramid Scheme, Biggest Scam – whatever they can say.. let them say.. when they want to prove that in the court? Why they are not proving in the court? why they are keep on delaying like this?
Everyone respects judiciary in India at the same time everyone knows what is mean by political power, political influence, bribe in our great nation.
Time will tell the correct answer to everyone!
melvyn poor guy has just been done in by our judicial system which is very slow .bad luck that’s all.from what we hear he isn’t being questioned so much as being threatened instead.
his family is very very brave.
adjournments by courts is normal procedure and is in NO WAY a reflection of the merit of the matters under consideration.
the winter vacation and the fact that courts are bogged down with huge case loads ,lead to long gaps in hearing dates.we know matters take time in our judiciary and this does not ruffle us.
the andhra matter quashing in the supreme court was attended by a proxy lawyer ,because saol knew that the matter would not be heard ,as the notices had not been served.we got the supreme courts help in serving the cid,andhra and now saol lawyers will try to pin down corporate frauds watch and serve them.why do people avoid being served?
the eow PP actually had the audacity to say in the high court that the eow had not been served by the supreme court in saol matter.
when the judge asked them to put this in writing before the court, they balked and changed their stance and duly turned up for the next lahoti committee meeting.
it seems our judiciary has to FORCE govt agencies [remember rbi] to come out and say what they have against saol.
if they are left to themselves ,the agencies will just keep mumbling about saol’s illegality, but will never venture into the courts to prove their allegations.
no problems with the rbi ,mca and IT,now the eow can come to the supreme court ,and like the delhi and chennai eow’s understood saol ,i’m sure mumbai eow will come around too.
what about referral income?
on what basis have you calculated the survey income ,on one panel?
what about income when your referrals fill their surveys properly?
how about growing some neurons?
how about quitting complaining about me to your boss?
@anju
As evidenced by the EOW rocking up to the Lahoti Committee, stating they’re busy and toddling off – the EOW are clearly giving precedence to the criminal side of things.
How many bail applications of Crasto and Dandekar have been rejected now due to the evidence the EOW have against them?
Crasto received over $40,000 in kickbacks and Dandekar is management of what their investigation has already concluded is a ponzi scheme.
The RBI never investigated Speak Asia, they said so themselves. The MCA are waiting on the SFIO report and the IT (and ED) have already publicly stated that their investigations have revealed that Speak Asia are engaged in money laundering and tax evasion.
Last warning anju, back up what you say with facts. Baseless rants will be sent to the spam bin.
@anju
Read this first
Does you referral income is recruitment income? Because speakasia don’t have any product or service as of now.
@Andy
Yes, anju is talking about recruitment income. Referral just makes it sound less ponzi-schemeish.
PS. If you entertain the idea that the payments were made before Speak Asia shut down, no matter how you cut it, the bulk of that $43,000 is from recruitment.
That said, why would a judge continue to deny bail to Crasto if the payments were made before they shut down? Crasto wasn’t the only one making money with Speak Asia before May.
Answer: The $43,000 is kickbacks from Speak Asia, that’s why Crasto is sitting in jail right now.
really? prove this or put your own baseless rants into your spam bin.
that would be a refreshing change.
The EOW were at Monday’s meeting and along with questioning of the petitioners credentials (which they’d done before in September), they stated their investigation was ongoing. As far as I know that’s all they contributed to the Lahoti Committee.
I have no reason to question my source(s) as they haven’t been wrong or inaccurate thus far.
If you want proof beyond my sources, get AISPA, Speak Asia or Solomon James to put out a public statement saying it’s not true. Or… given that you’re in bed with Bahirwani and most likely already know what was discussed on Monday, publicly deny the information is correct (on behalf of AISPA – as they are your source) yourself here.
Further discussion on where the information is sourced will be nuked (unless it is proven false) – as always, let’s stick to discussing the information itself.
You started with a presumption and your subsequent points are derived FROM that presumption. As that presumption is not supported by facts, therefore your entire argument is, as you say, laughable.
Sure we can, by sticking to FACTS and ANALYSIS of such facts regarding SpeakAsia. You haven’t presented us with any. All you have is various insults and insinuations against Oz and his website.
You are assuming something is true only if presented in court.
The only thing that’ll be determined in court is CONVICTION of SpeakAsia as a scam guilty of violation of various indian laws (or declared innocent, as some are fervently hoping)
That does not change the FACT that SpeakAsia’s business model had been one of Ponzi scheme, yet presented with enough technobabble (“empowerment” and other buzzwords) that you all actually “believed” it.
It also doesn’t change the fact that there was no client (admitted so by Manoj Kumar himself), and an ever-shifting explanation on what the company actually do. First it’s survey, then it’s e-zine publishing, then “consumer empowerment”, then “e-COmmerce”.
If you ask any regular person off the street without mentioning SpeakAsia, and give them all these facts above, they’ll probably tell you this is suspicious business. Yet SpeakAsians, who no longer have this “objectivity”, no longer sees any suspicion.
Furthermore, they, such as you here, want those people to SHUT UP about their suspicions.
Frankly, you can choose not to listen, but telling other people to shut up only points out how lame your position is.
@anju agarwal are you anyhow related to Ashok Bahirwani? Besides speakasia. I mean business relations or family member?
Because in that case your comments counts nothing here.
Anju “helps out” at AISPA, in the same manner that Crasto and Dandekar “help out” over at Speak Asia.
If you consider that matter of fact & analysis what you have with you is true, you need to prove it in the court since the matter has come to judiciary.
Simply, if you keep the facts & analysis personally with you (which you consider as truth) without going & proving it in higher courts, then what is the use?
All your allegations has to be proven, then only it will be considered as truth, till then it is an allegation.
Even if you write all your facts & analysis (what you consider as truth) in Behind MLM, nothing will happen, judge will not give punishment to the culprits by reading Behind MLM & by seeing newspapers or TV channels.
Don’t ever tell me all truth is not necessary to be presented or proven in the court. It has to be presented & proven in the court…
@Irfan
Speak Asia did or did not pay out massive commissions based on recruitment alone, whereas the survey payments were fixed at $a maximum of $20 a week for a premium panelist?
Speak Asia did or did not to date ever have any product for sale other than membership to the company?
Speak Asis did or did not ever implement a business model that was product based. Not promise, but actually implement it.
That’s all the proof you need right there. The EOW are currently following the money trail before taking anything to court. They’re not investigating the pyramid scheme nature of the company – they appear to have finished that when they announced Speak Asia was the biggest MLM fraud they’d ever seen.
So?
BehindMLM isn’t an activism site, it’s a blog that covers MLM. Stop looking at Speak Asia as a panelist who’s lost money and start looking at it as part of the MLM industry at large.
No it’s not that. I have posted this some time ago and now I think she is not the correct anju agarwal.
So let me correct myself in case of anju agarwal .
Gunjan Gems
http://propertyinpune.blogspot.com/2007/10/6want-to-buy-plot.html
http://mtnlmumbai.in/index.php/3g-prepaid-plans/125-directory-search – 24457160 – is registered to A AGARWAL with same address.
As you can see both Anju Agarwal and Ashok Bahirwani shares same address and phone numbers.
One more thing Oz can confirm the email ID of anju if it is correct.
@anju agarwal By the way
Thanks for the advise.
I can confirm the email addresses are one the same.
That blogger comment was left by an account named ‘Ashok’;
As in Ashok Bahirwani?
So from the looks of it, Anju is either Ashok Bahirwani or someone living at the same address as Ashok Bahirwani and using the same mobile phone number.
Busted.
I’ve been sending anju’s emotion filled rants to the spam bin the past hour or so, but I’ll let “her” respond to this.
“She’ll” probably tell us we need to prove it in court…
oops! i just put my response in your spam bin.
Not funny! 😐
For jokes please go to speakasia powers they are always playing with jokes.
As usual, when we’re talking Speak Asia or AISPA – nothing is as it seems.
These scamsters will plunge to any depths. Is it any wonder the EOW are taking their time to follow the money laundering trail?
andy you’re such a great investigator.
use your skills to prove saol is a ponzi scheme.
like the eow you continuously derail yourself from the topic.
you know ,the gang out at speakasia powers[ 3000 management shills ] laugh and joke and are positive unlike you ,who has sold his soul to his foreign bosses.
More proof Ashok Bahirwani isn’t all that he seems:
This petition lists
That mobile number 9892212367 and “Ashok Bahirwani” return 8 Google results.
9892212367 and “bahirwani” returns 80 results.
With AISPA President in jail for receiving kickbacks from Speak Asia and AISPA Secretary Ashok Bahirwani pulling identity fraud on the internet, how deep does the relationship between AISPA and Speak Asia go?
Looks like Bahirwani is discriminatingly racist too. Amusing seeing as Manoj Kumar (Bahirwani’s boss) is in bed with the Italians over at Seven Rings International and is using Speak Asia panelist’s money to fund overseas scams.
Now read back these comments from anju with what we know now:
1st September 2011:
September 20th 2011:
September 26th 2011:
When you attempt to build your credibility on a foundation of lies, sooner or later you undo yourself. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that’s what we’ve witnessed here today.
I wonder how much Speak Asia are paying the Bahirwanis… or perhaps it’s the other way around.
Gunjan Gems, the Bahirwani family business:
Gunjam Gems lists a turnover of ‘US$ 1-10 Million (or Rs. 4-40 Crore Approx.)’, maybe they’re Speak Asia investors.
This multi million dollar business owner is the same guy who begs Speak Asia panelists to contribute towards paying AISPA’s lawyers…
Here’s a link between Bahirwani’s Gunjan Gems and Dubai:
Where is Manoj Kumar hanging out again?
Furthermore why would the owner of a multi million dollar business randomly join Speak Asia to make no money?
I wonder how many panelists own multi million dollar businesses? Think about that the next time Ashok Bahirwani tells you to not to ask question and wait.
It’s all very well for Bahirwani to deny Speak Asia is a pyramid scheme and lead panelists along, he’s literally swimming in diamonds and who knows what else. No wonder he was worried about being picked up by the EOW.
@Oz and Andy …
That is a fantastic work… the Anju Bahirwani lid is blown off..
Bahirwani could’ve used the pseudo name Anju among the alleged 800 fake IDs at Speakasia…
Bahirwani also appears to own a shop called ‘Mystique Gifts‘ and in 2008 was involved in a hotel resort building project;
This is the multi-million dollar businessman who expects you to believe he just joined Speak Asia as a regular panelist, has made no money with the company, is the public spokesperson for an association he mainly set up, and devotes his time and money to it with no hidden agenda…
It just doesn’t add up now does it.
Getting back to this comment from anju:
Here’s a bio on Bahirwani:
It appears the entire Bahirwani family is in on the scam, and they all joined just 2 weeks before it collapsed and have been defending it vehemently since. The Bahirwani family has multiple businesses worth millions…
Fishy fishy fishy…
@anju
Unless you’ve got something non-spammy and intelligent to add, don’t bother.
wonderful work.
work the net, find snippets and weave a masterful tale around them [as is your style].
thankyou for calling ashok bahirwani a rich man.
nobody noticed up until today.
thankyou ,thankyou ,thankyou.
ashok bahirwani is out at the moment ,taking a spin in his private jet.
anju he has publicly posted your mobile no be careful
No, chang. We read OZ just to be aware of what else is cooking in your minds and that becomes an entertaining stuff because if we have blind faith that Speakasia will restart.
You have a blind faith that this is one of the many scams. But it seems you would be proven wrong. I have full confidence now.
@anju
Yeah… so if you didn’t want people finding out your phone number, you probably shouldn’t have plastered it around all over the internet.
Nothing here has been revealed, it’s all been taken from publicly viewable and linked to sources.
@Sanjeev
…based on what? On what other than blind faith are you basing this?
That the EOW showed up to the Lahoti Committee? We’ve already been over that. We know what the EOW think of Speak Asia and they are arresting what’s left of Speak Asia management in India.
That’s a good thing how…?
Oz,
I think you are treating Ashok Bahirwani, Anju Agarwal like gangster top heads, it gives a feeling like your creativity seems to be going beyond your imagination, my persoanl suggestion: please control yourself Oz, i feel this is too much.
I may be right or wrong, i don’t know, you know better if you sit & think about their personal privacy, Easily you can do that if that person is a multi-millionaire or crorepathy… I don’t think it might be like that… Any have carry on with your proper analysis.
All the best!
Let’s wait & see who is right and who is wrong?
They published the information online, not me.
Regarding its relevance, the EOW has AISPA President Melvin Crasto in custody and a judge continues to deny him bail based on the evidence they have against him.
Ashok Bahirwani is the President of AISPA, and as proven here is somewhat of a fraud. Multi million dollar business owner (per his own words) joins scam company in the 11th hour, makes no money and then vehemently defends it?
Please.
It doesn’t add up and casts the entire AISPA organisation into doubt. No wonder the EOW questioned the petitioners credentials in the last Lahoti Committee meeting.
AISPA is a sham.
So OZ – at last you understood what I want to say. Confidence is a feeling and how do I translate those to words. I know I am blind. But some times it is good because that allows you to keep your focus intact.
Like this: Blind faith.
Blind faith is not based on logic or reasoning of the facts in front of you. Blind faith will not magically make the EOW investigation go away or remove Speak Asia’s criminal responsibility in running a ponzi scheme for the past year.
Blind faith will get you nowhere. Time to open your eyes and smell the horseshit.
Stop being a blind pawn on the scammer’s chessboard and take some control of your life.
Oz – I have a lot many things to do beside MLM business and have full control on my life. I have put my hands only on two opportunities first it was AMWAY and now it is SPEAKASIA here.
I got confident on the products when I did AMWAY and remained as a faithful and was equally confident on SPEAKASIA when I joined speakasia.
Why I was confident then and why I am still is because I got this as an opportunity which never forced me to recruit any one to earn money. Of course referral become one of the hot cakes on this business but referral was never on my mind . I just took this as an interesting opportunity to earn a handsome amount sitting online without having to venture out for finding customers or people.
May be you understand this small little thing. Otherwise I am not bothered with what you understand. I am just responsible for what I say and not what you understand.
That’s EOW’s jobs.
So you deny that Manoj Kumar admitted that there’s no clients?
Or are you just ignoring the fact that it’s NOT ME that said he, but rather, Indian newspapers, quoting EOW and so on?
Again, you seem to miss the OBVIOUS difference: the court is there to either convict (or prove innocent) SAOL. The FACT that SAOL was a fraud was not in doubt. Kumar himself admitted so when he admitted there was no clients, and that is already enough proof that it’s fraud (one among many).
But of course, you don’t see that. You think once Kumar and the rest made an excuse, the rest of us somehow lose the right to talk about it, as if that fraud no longer existed.
You mean you have blind faith, but thanks for your clarification nonetheless.
Oz didn’t say Bahirwani and family is head of the SAOL. He said it doesn’t make sense for Bahirwani to be defending SAOL such, and to form AISPA for the express purpose of doing so, given Bahirwani’s background as easily available online.
It *could* just be a giant coincidence, but with Crasto STILL sitting in a jail, it is increasing likely that there is something rotten within AISPA itself. And EOW’s stance appears to be of that angle as well (confirmed by Anju herself!)
And Bahirwani is the head of AISPA, so there’s something not quite right there.
I will personally say the link of Bahirwani and the rest of SOAL is pretty darn thin right now, but you had to admit that Bahirwani, being a millionaire making a comfortable living, really needs NOT to join SpeakAsia. He doesn’t seem to need the pittance of an income SpeakAsia provides. So why join? Only he knows (and maybe Anju).
Oz’s uncovering of public info linking Bahirwani to Dubai is interesting, but absent other corroborating evidence, linking Bahirwani to SAOL, beyond that of a mere panelist, is, as I said, “thin”, but it is there. There are a LOT of Indian businesses with links to Dubai, I’m sure. By itself, doesn’t mean much of anything.
A better question: what links Manoj Kumar to Dubai, if he’s still there? Why there, and not somewhere else? Does he know people in Dubai? And all that.
If there’s no commonality between Kumar and Bahirwani in Dubai (same contacts, etc.) then it’s a mere coincidence. Right now, we don’t have enough to go on.
How much can you earn with SAOL with NO recruiting, only doing surveys? The figure I got is about $20 USD a week, as a premium panelist. is that right? So, $20 * 52 = 1040 a year. Let’s just say $1000 USD a year.
Since you paid $220 USD to join (that is the subscription rate for premium, yes?), your net profit is about $800 USD PER YEAR (if you want to be exact, $820)
Is that what you consider to be “handsome amount”? Because that is exactly what you said.
Yes Chang – this is a handsome secondary income when you already have your primary source of income. But greedy people like you made it just a referral business to earn lots of money in short span… That’s why investigations are on…
FYI, “per capita income” of India is roughly $1412 USD, according to Wikipedia
$800 per year income would be.. above the poverty line. Lower middle class, perhaps.
Oh, I can see why it’s so “attractive”, Sanjeev. You sound like an honest man. You tried to play it fair (no referrals).
So what was your reaction when Manoj Kumar had that press conference where he admitted there were no clients (which means your survey income was basically paid by other member’s join-up fees)?
And one more thing, Sanjeev. What was your INITIAL reaction to SAOL’s compensation plan, when you saw it was so heavy on recruitment, but you think you can “play fair” by doing ONLY surveys, and not recruit any body?
Were you, at the time, expect SAOL to actually have clients paying them for the surveys?
Hello, when Mr. Manoj Kumar admitted that there’s no clients for Speak Asia? Can you prove it?
One minute.. Which Manoj Kumar you are telling? I hope it is not Bollywood actor Manoj Kumar?
I hope you are not taking any Bollywood film with the help of Behind MLM,
Good Script, Screen Play & Direction..!
A Film by Behind MLM & Team!
Ha ha ha…!
Sanjeev, if everyone sat back to earn money only by way of survey in SOAL, still one question remains, which company would pay 100 crore per survey which contain opinion of just 20 Lakh ID’s (12 lakh actual panelist)? Does it make any business sense?
And lets say even if lets say some company did buy it, wouldn’t they make any statement that they did business worth few hundred crores with SOAL?
And even if they had clients, why don’t they get their audits done by some top companies like KPMG, etc and publish the certificates?? Instead of hiding in Brazil, Dubai & Singapore???
I pity on your understanding… These type of opportunities are always a secondary source.. we are not dependent on this. I have a professional qaulification degree which helps me earn my living and I am very satisfied on that account. When people try to make these as their primary source of income, that’s where this causes a problem… I hope you understand now.
Singapore accounts are already audited and posted on the Singapore government website. OZ/Chang – Can you please tell the name of auditors after searching from there. (You are pretty good in searching the internet.) :’)
Yes Chang I entered only for earning from my own efforts. Because I hate sponsoring people. I just got fed up of it while doing AMWAY.
There are pure mathematical logics available on this topic somewhere in this site posted by me. Kindly go through that. May be chang would help you locate that.
@ Sanjeev, the scam happened in India, so why Singapore Audits?
SOAL could hire top lawyers in India.. but not a good CA?? LOL
Nope, your “Indian CEO” Manoj Kumar. Don’t tell you you forgot about him already?!
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-05-19/news/29560262_1_ponzi-money-laundering-collective-investment-scheme
I laugh at your short memory.
I pity you attempting to stay true to your conviction by NOT recruiting in SAOL when it’s clearly the PRIMARY income source, and you having to “make do” with this “second opportunity”.
@Sanjeev, BTW, you didn’t answer the other two questions.
I am responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
Because the company is yet to be registered in India.. Just don’t comment only for commenting. Go and get your facts right first. (may be your own name first should be corrected)
Question No. 1
yes I had confidence and I still have that. My postings of June 2011 on facebook could be seen for a proof.
Is this your question no. 2?
Irfan has already answered this and I am fully with him.
@Sanjeev
Irfan only cracked jokes about there is a much more famous Manoj Kumar in India. Do you need a photo to remind you which person I’m talking about? (No, NOT the actor)
I understand you perfectly. You chose NOT to use the “recruitment” side of the compensation package, believing that there are genuine income derived from surveys commissioned by the big companies.
What I want to know is why do you believe him, and continue to do so, even after he apologized for using companies names without their permission, thus admitting the surveys are fake, were NOT commissioned by the companies, and thus, clearly, were NOT paid.
As SpeakAsia have no other documented source of income, the revenue paying you and other survey panelists must be from other panelists’ join fees.
Proof? His own press conference.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/market-research-agency-speak-asia-under-scanner/1/138467.html
You are telling a news what Speak Asia’s CEO Manoj Kumar hasn’t told anywhere. Only for that I asked you which Manoj Kumar you are saying..?
Yes – I do agree, he apologized for using ICIC Bank’s name. Does it mean he is not having clients?
Clients were very important in this business model, which Speak Asia is telling openly in Press Conference that they do have more number of clients as more than we all expect but can’t tell / reveal about them in open forum because of agreement issues. Only by signing the Non-disclosure agreement, list of clients can be seen. If there’s no clients, purely this business comes in Money Circulation Act as soap and you tells..
See, here the problem is: Speak Asia is telling they do have clients & willing to give that list of clients only to the top level of people in Supreme Court. But you people yourself start to tell Speak Asia has no clients with them.
Now, this problem can be solved only through proper talks and without the help of mediation there’ll be no solution. Speak Asia can’t show their clients openly to you as you expect. Even after reading this if you people come again with the sentence “Speak Asia has no clients..” then there’ll be no use of talking or discussing the matter further with you. Waste of time..
EOW can book SpeakAsia in Money Circulation Act & Money Laundering Act also, can submit their report to the higher authority, after studying the case along with the documents what they had – higher authority of Supreme Court will decide with expert team – is this case comes really comes in Money Circulation or not. Then, they’ll decide. Not Behind MLM..!
Finally, i want to tell only one thing – all this discussion from the start comes only from the issue of Clients. Without wasting time by writing useless scraps like this in your articles do something else effectively for the people which will be called as real public interest. Don’t write scraps like this which you use to tell yourself as facts & analysis.
I will tell you this important thing & basic psychology of readers: you can tell any direct lies easily to the readers but for making them to believe ‘it is not lie what you have told..’ even after you have uttered a lie really requires some skills. You people are really expert in that skills. Don’t show your proofs only with the paid news coming in the media.
Indian Media is filled with many mistakes, hope you would have read Justice Katju’s remarks regarding that. Many paid news are there and it use to come in newspapers, TV channels, Magazines, etc., Simultaneously, i will not say all media news is like that.
Everything is driven by commerce today and so is the media. Because nothing comes free. A newspaper or a TV channel cannot run doing social service alone. The print and the electronic media need commercial advertisements to sustain themselves.
Advertisements themselves cannot sell. A good media is one that intelligently combines commerce, content, news and information. And this way the media delivers and achieves its objective. But what is the role and purpose of media?
Is it just to gather news and communicate intelligently, increase circulation, or function as a watchdog of the society? Looking at the way the newspapers and TV channels are competing with one another it seems they are more in the race to gain one-upmanship over the rest of others than being a watchdog.
First analyse the news – particularly between the wrong one & right one.
We’ve been over this, but lets assume they do have clients.
In order to prove they aren’t a scam (with the majority of revenue coming in from membership fees), Speak Asia need to have raised at least 19.8 billion rupees from selling surveys between May 2010-May 2011.
This is roughly 3.8 million USD per survey, assuming Speak Asia sells 2 surveys each and every week.
Who is paying 3.8 million USD for a survey in which one respondent can reply up to 10 times? And why to date has no company shown any support to Speak Asia by publicly announcing they have used their services?
Surely someone willing to pay at least 3.8 million USD for a survey would stand by the company they are commissioning?
Furthermore why do the EOW have a signed confession from Khandor stating Kumar contracted him to make up surveys from Wikipedia and free article directories?
Any why not? If they were doing a good job they have nothing to fear from losing their clients.
Furthermore they’ve previously announced clients, all of which turned out to be lies. The fact that they have none is the only reason this list is not made public. Getting people to sign a NDA to view the supposed list is just a preventative measure to stop people publicly announcing the companies on the list (because said companies will just publicly deny it again).
The court can impose criminal liability and judgement, we’re merely analysing the information infront of us.
If the information is flawed, by all means refute it and put forth your position. Telling critics to shutup is as Kasey puts it, lame.
I’ve said this before to another panelist (can’t remember who), but welcome to democracy and free speech.
False. Speak Asia has no products to retail. Additionally to date the only recorded revenue stream (from any department who have analysed Speak Asia’s books) is from membership fees.
Lies are easily caught out. Just ask Anju Bahirwani.
If you’re going to imply lies, then prove it. Otherwise stop trying.
As a Speak Asia panelist, sticking your hands in your ears and shouting ‘lies, lies’ just makes you look amateurishly embarassing.
Didn’t bother reading the rest of your crap. The media are accountable for what they publish, and unless you’re going to allege a giant country wide media conspiracy involving multiple independent news organisations who have reported on Speak Asia (which is hilarious) – you’re wasting our time.
Mystique Gifts, Gunjan Gems:
I believe these are grossly exaggerated, if he claim they’re multi-million businesses.
Source: http://www.indiamart.com/gunjan-gems/
Usually, Sole Proprietiorship is used for very small businesses with revenue less than a certain amount, and usually no employees except the owner, or only a few employees. This “company” only has one product, too, and they don’t need tens of people to handle one product.
I found another Gunjan Gems in Jaipur, Rajasthan. This looks more like a real company.
Source: http://www.indiamart.com/company/1067290/
He never admitted to having any clients. He chose to hide behind “my list is secret” excuse. he also apologized for falsely using names of a lot of OTHER companies too.
The big issue here is: does SpeakAsia have survey clients?
Possibility 1) There are no clients, it’s all a lie
Possibility 2) There are clients, but they cannot be revealed
You believe in Possibility 2. So answer this: WHY would a company getting survey results from SpeakAsia have a clause in their agreement that says “SpeakAsia, you may never reveal that I ever contracted you for a survey”?
Getting survey results, or market research, is perfectly legitimate. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
Thus, there is NO LOGICAL REASON for such an agreement to exist, which then means Possibility 2 makes no sense.
Thus leaves Possibility 1.
Thus, the ONLY evidence of such an agreement is Manoj Kumar’s statement.
Entire article is written in a biased mode & the writers’ intention is to indoctrinate to brainwash other individuals (particularly innocent members) & his intention to get people’s awareness writing some biased report. Wow!!
IRFAN, I acknowledge the donations of words en route for media like Kasey chang’s media who has transported unsubstantiated information just to boost site rating & too other propose (writing fused article seasoning 24/7 in his mainframe meant for source of revenue so-called his line of work).
Kasey Chang is very famous journalist / playwright inside his dot com space but not come up to scratch to prove his work in matter-of-fact type. He has before now done a number of slip-ups in his round-table:
1. In advance critique he published EOW never participant in civil matter & it’s utterly waste of time & at the end of the day he supposed Oh! They make attendance in front of mediator for amicable settlement & submitted the reports to give values of time.
2. Previously he has draft the an extra expose concerning it is useless & takes 10-15 yrs to examine mode of subject from beginning to end mediation process & finally he bound to write quick conclusion of meeting (Ooops ! meeting over and done with).
3. He has also declared no body get paid back dues owing to unavailability (or hijack) of funds on concern account of Speak Asia & let see anon he will in print Oh, they have ample (or unscrew seize amount) of funds & refunded back all hard earn money at least subscription amount to his members.
People really don’t care if scavenger attacks others with untrue stories. They figure if you don’t want to get hurt, you shouldn’t have filed for office. They figure whatever happens to us, our lives will be better than theirs.
If subject and reports don’t stimulate our brain with Educational and cheerful thoughts, after the first couple of words move on, we do-not waste our valuable time & we should wait for judgment of Hon’ble Supreme Court not Kasey chang’s court !!.
No, He admitted to have clients. When journalist asked about client list he told Non-Disclosure Agreement was there, kindly put signature on that after attending their lawyers and get the information regarding clients.
The list is only secret, it can’t be made into public. It can’t be given even to EOW.
Yes, he apologized for using certain name of companies publicly that does not mean he is not having clients for the business.
Yes, i do accept it is the big issue in Behind MLM & also among those people who thinks wrong about the company.
Possibility 1. is wrong & false.
Possibility 2. is right & true. It’s correct, they cannot be revealed in public.
Any issues, you can scribble anything in your blog or in your online portal since it is yours personal opinions, suggestions, predictions, assumptions, who cares Or else you have to shut-up & contact the court..!
First thing if you do – there might be no solution till the end, second thing if you do you can get a solution but not immediately, it may take little more time.
it’s okay if the hon soapbox and hon chang write up biased and transparent lies on their conveniently self moderated page,which allows them the last word on everything.
it’s okay if they claim they’re mlm warriors out to publish ‘their version’ of the truth with no ulterior motives.
but if ashok bahirwani decides to lead a fight for the welfare of 1.5 million indians, OF COURSE he has ulterior motives.
ashok bahirwani is just the opposite side of the coin you twerps.
he is doing something positive while you’re just trying to destroy things with your willful lies and half truths.
the best way to counter the criminal lies published here is to just ignore these rascals.
@norway
ashok bahirwani was born in jaipur. oops !theres a gunjan
gems there too ! more mystique added to your potpourri !
lets have a world wide web search on the true identity of
somesh goyal. is he manoj kumar in disguise ? is he the
puppeteer ? this is your homework for today.
I’ve been busy today, so my previous comment about “Mystique Gifts” and “Gunjan Gems” was related to some links 40-50 posts earlier in this thread – Ashok Bahirwani’s different businesses.
This comment is related to a link in the same area of this thread, where Oz googled telephone number + bahirwani.
Have AdMatrix been restarted again in August 2011?
As TheAdMatrix?
**** speakindiaonline[dot]com/forum/topics/the-admatrix-launch-got-the-big-response-from-leaders-like
And welcome back, anju. We began to feel too comfortable here during the last 10 days or so, with all the peace and quiet.
@arvind
Any perceived bias is a direct result of Speak Asia being a blatant ponzi scheme. There is nothing positive about ponzi schemes.
Indoctrinate or brainwash them into what exactly?
I’m not selling or promoting anything. Did you just freudian slip out what Speak Asia does to its members?
Uh, at the time of publication the EOW hadn’t attended the Lahoti Committee. They only attended three days ago and only to question the credibility of the petitioners and state they were still investigating.
You’re going to claim that articles written before Monday were inaccurate on the basis of events that hadn’t occured yet? Lol.
I maintain it’s a waste of time. The EOW told the committee hearing they were still investigating, which Lahoti will have to put in his report to submit to the Supreme Court, who in turn already knew this was the case.
Given no bank will let Speak Asia transfer any money through them until the criminal matters are concluded, tell me – what has been achieved by the Lahoti Committee?
Lol, where are you pulling this crap from?
Speak Asia have a publicly recorded revenue intake of 2,200-2,400 cr whilst they owe panelists 30,000crore. Both of these figures are from the EOW who have, as alleged by Speak Asia themselves, complete access and control over Speak Asia’s website and backend (which would contain banking information and revenues etc.)
Then why did you bother commenting? Everything published here is verified by at least one other source (opinions aside) – yet you have provided nothing to back up any of your claims.
You can employ all the cheerful thoughts in the world, it doesn’t change the facts about Speak Asia as they stand before us.
Horseshit. Manoj Kumar publicly apologised for Speak Asia lying about the companies they named as clients, but only after said companies denied any and all involvement with the company.
This is exactly what happened and it’s documented on video.
Yes, yes – the police authority investigating Speak Asia cannot receive a list of supposed clients. Makes complete sense.
Speak Asia: LOL we have clients, but you can’t see them – so we are INNOCENT!
EOW: Oh… okay then.
What absurd reality do you live in?
The signed confession from Khandor (which you are conveniently ignoring) states otherwise. Every publicly named company by Speak Asia has denied involvement, ergo there are no clients.
You can but without solid reasoning, evidence and logic it’s not going to be taken seriously. Why do you think Speak Asia’s cheerleaders get so incensed at this blog?
Hell, we’ve had numerous panelists even complain at the level of detail Speak Asia gets analysed here – yourself included (‘how dare you analyse the company!’)
You can write any old bullshit on the web true, case in point – all the pro Speak Asia blogs and Facebook groups who live in lala land basing their entire arguments on blind hope and suspension and total disbelief of the reality before them.
Good luck with that.
Unless you can clearly and concisely explain what the owner of a multi-billion dollar business (Bahirwani’s words) is doing running the association for a ponzi scheme and defending it in court when he hasn’t made a cent and suspiciously only joined the company 2 weeks before it was shut down, the suspicion of ulterior motives remains valid.
Just look at Bahirwani’s mate Melvin Crasto and his $40,000 + in kickbacks from Speak Asia… AISPA is tainted and full of frauds to the core.
And what lies would those be? And before you answer – again, long ranting paragraphs that go nowhere and are not substantiated are spam and will be treated as such, leave that shit on Facebook.
All I see is a whole lotta hot wind out of someone who has been exposed as having heavy biased towards Speak Asia and AISPA via family relations. And a questionable involvement at that.
@anju
I was analyzing the statements about business model, revenue and employees. Where the business is located wasn’t really a point.
Sole Proprietorship (Individual) is usually a small business, with no employees except the owner, or a few employees. I believe some of the statements are made up?
You must have mistaken me with someone else. I haven’t written any articles for BehindMLM.
As you started wrong, the rest of your bogus conclusions are also wrong. So I’m not bothering to comment on the rest.
@ soapbox
um, what exactly has been exposed ?
haven’t i always been completely biased in favor of saol and aispa? did i leave any doubt in anybody’s mind regarding that?
is there a gag order on family members of speakasians?
why should i willfully disclose my identity here ,you protect yours pretty closely,maybe you have something to hide [like your true intent ].
thankyou for calling ashok bahirwani a rich man [multimillionaire].
everybody loves a compliment now and then.
don’t worry about speakasians ,they are indians ,and can separate the wheat from the chaff in seconds ,and know exactly what to believe.
but i like that you think he’s rich.
as for your lies ,the list is long and the most immediate one is your lie about the events in the final lahoti meeting.
you say -my source is right and that’s final!
hardly unbiased and unbullyish-don’t you think?
well we got a different report .it’s just your source against ours and everybody knows how THAT looks.
anyway all our predictions are coming out pass and your theories keep getting fail. study hard. keep good company. be righteous.ta ta .
don’t assume, they do have clients and all real clients with them. That’s true, One hundred percent true.
Because they comes under Non-Disclosure Agreement, they were not supposed to show it or publicly announce it.
Mr. Khandoor’s company (Brand Saloon) had been hired by SpeakAsia to carry out the tasks of SEO and adapting the content and language of the surveys that were uploaded to suit the Indian environment.
Since, you are very close with EOW, can you publish the confession letter what Khandoor has given to EOW? It’ll be very clear in that. Don’t give new meaning for that…
For previously announced clients – Mr. Manoj Kumar apologized publicly. Do, you think without having a single client a company’s CEO coming & sitting in-front of media persons and answering all the questions raised by the media. Do you tell me which company of this category has done this type of Press Conference publicly? Can you name any? Don’t you think something was there with them which is so strong to move forward & come into public boldly?
All the papers & documents along with in-ward & out-ward were properly presented to supreme court & mediation committee, now nothing else is needed.
Source of money, purpose of money, inward & outward everything is there which is already presented to the higher court of this land.
Contact the court for details. No need of other things..
@anju bahirwani
You shouldn’t, unless you’re going to parade around here like you’ve got Bahirwani’s dick in your mouth and question everybody’s elses credentials.
I’ve already stated I’ve got nothing to do with Speak Asia, withholding that you’re Bahirwani’s daughter and have a conflict of interest in looking at Speak Asia and AISPA objectively is dubiously intentional on your part.
I have no financial interest in Speak Asia or any of the other companies featured here. My identity is irrelevant. Being a member of the company and related to the founder of AISPA by family nonetheless, you on the other hand are different. Stating this association is not revealing your identity, merely stating your conflict of interest openly.
Which was what?
You can’t pull the ‘Lahoti told us not to say’ shit now because the mediation process is over.
If your next comment is not a detailed description of this report (any other type of nonsense reply will be nuked) the only logical conclusion is that you are lying (again).
Unfortunately, you are relying on an assumption: that Manoj Kumar is NOT lying about the client list.
The ONLY proof you have favoring Possibility 1 is Manoj Kumar’s word. There is no proof that he’s telling the truth.
Thus, your reasoning is flawed. This is called “hearsay”, and hearsay is not admissible in court as evidence. You can’t use hearsay to prove something.
@irfan
On what proof are you basing this?
Here’s the proof against Speak Asia having clients:
1. A signed confession from Khandor stating Manoj Kumar commissioned him to make up surveys.
2. Not one company to date owning up ever having contracted Speak Asia.
3. A recorded revenue stream that only accounts for membership fees.
4. The fact that even in legitimate market research, no company on Earth pays 3.8 million USD for a single survey.
Not according to the EOW:
Nothing about SEO or any other crap there.
Sorry what, you’re asserting there are clients because they held a press conference? They had to hold a press conference to address the issue because every company named by Speak Asia as a survey client publicly denied any association with the company.
The press were answering questions and Speak Asia had to go into damage control. The press conference doesn’t prove either way if there are clients or not, only that Speak Asia lied about any and all cients they named.
Not even one was involved with the company.
The Lahoti Committee and Solomon James writ have nothing to do with establishing whether or not Speak Asia is a ponzi scheme. The details of Speak Asia revenue are being investigated by the EOW as a seperate matter as part of an ongoing criminal investigation they have open into the company.
Your failure to grasp the narrow scope of the James writ and Lahoti Committee only highlights your lack of understanding of the finer aspects of the various court cases and investigations into Speak Asia. I suggest you do some more reading.
Hey
Anju Agrawal is on the friend list of Ashok Bahirwani and she has only 2 friends, Aman Azad that speakasia panelist and Ashok Bahirwani.
She has been actively posting links to another MLM company
http://www.prelaunchaustralia.net
Here is a post on facebook from Anju Agrawal who is in the friendlist of Ashok Bahirwani.
https://www.facebook.com/bespeakasian/posts/145080048915684
Another post where he/she advertises Pre Launch Australia
https://www.facebook.com/bespeakasian/posts/149648621789403
This person has not put any information or photographs on the profile, so that no one know who the person is. The last post this person has posted on facebook is on September 5.
The landline number posted above searched little info on google and found these pages
http://www.phunwa.com/phone/22/24457160
It shows A Agrawal has given same address as Ashok Bahirwani’s Mahim Address on that page.
Phone: 022-24457160
Name: A AGARWAL
Address: PALM LANDS G,MORI ROAD,MAHIM,400016
Location: Mumbai (Bombay), India
I think this person Anju Agrawal is a professional MLM business person.
Thanks for sharing ! Above mlm is also a scam.
So you are telling: my reasoning is called as ‘hearsay’ and that ‘hearsay’ is not admissible in court of evidence. Can you tell me Which court of evidence? Is it Kasey Chang’s Court..? Yes, i’ll accept i can’t use ‘hearsay’ to prove something in Kasey Chang’s Court.
What are you talking? Coming to the point, If you want to get a solution for this matter. Two things can be done from both side..
If you feel there’s no client for Speak Asia, go to court and prove them as fraud company. Tell the court to ask them for clients, court will ask them & let you know, if there’s client they will tell yes, no means ‘No’.
Don’t ask who are the clients to the court, they will not provide it, if they are not providing it, again don’t tell Speak Asia has no clients, they have cheated Supreme Court of India also… if you do like that, we will decide you are completely mad, now we are thinking you are a semi-mad.
If Speak Asia wants to prove them as genuine let them go to the court themselves and submit the list of clients to the court along with balance sheets, audit sheets, all the required papers & appropriate documents along with in-ward & out-ward – source & purpose of money to supreme court for which they will set a committee to read the matter and will announce the final verdict. Till then you have to wait!
Ok., now start preparing / typing answers for all my questions chang & soap. Come On..!
I know your search is completely within the internet and also few friends in EOW who can help you by giving internal information directly..
Poor readers of this portal, getting confused..! I feel pity for them, you also trying to manage by doing so many glitter work by giving nonsense in the name of facts & analysis and also you can attach newspaper write ups as proof & evidence.
If you take this to the court & give as evidence & proof by showing Indian Express has written this, Times Of India has written this and Star News has showed this, simply they will throw everything.. And they’ll say – what hell is this..?
@Irfan
The Supreme Court cases have nothing to do with establishing whether or not there are clients or not. One is Speak Asia trying to stop the CID from investigating them and the other a group of panelists petitioning Speak Asia to pay them.
The issue of clients relevancy falls under the EOW investigation, as the absense of clients is one indicator that Speak Asia is just a ponzi scheme. The EOW have gone on the public record that the company has no clients and has a signed confession from the man responsible for making up fake surveys for the company.
This is not debateable, these are the facts before us.
Unless you can provide the names of companies who paid Speak Asia at least 3.8 million USD per survey, the evidence before us suggests there are none.
It’s a simple request.
I know very well you will ask this & also repeat the same thing again & again…
Ozedit: …and I’m going to cut you off there;
Why they would like to bring to an end ?? How it is possible to stop, if Speak Asia is just a Ponzi Scheme (as you say) ??
So, you’re the chief reporter of California US & rest is your additional reporters of India & you have given your dot com space (bench) to others in lease basis ?? Thus, Why you bounce to succumb curved criticism in other feedback ??
That’s your habit; if you’re not capable to digest then perceptibly you will vomit alike.
No, I’m telling you that your “reasoning” is hinged on one assumption, and you can’t use an assumption to prove a theory. There is a very good reason courts do not allow hearsay as evidence, and this is exactly why. (And you clearly are not seeing it)
Again, I don’t write for BehindMLM. I don’t have a dot com space. Thus your random accusations (without proof, I may add) is rather amusing to me.
I don’t bother debating with someone who can’t even present fact coherently.
@arvind
Ask Speak Asia why they launched court action against the CID in the Supreme Court and don’t want to be investigated, I don’t know. Forget about defending charges, Speak Asia don’t even want the police investigating them.
On one hand you have panelists shouting about the company’s actions proving they are innocent of any charges and then you have the company fighting in court to stop the authorities even investigating them.
This case was last heard on Monday 12th Dec and it was adjourned till February 2012 because Speak Asia failed to serve notice to the CID to attend.
Speak Asia sent a proxy lawyer to the hearing who knew nothing and couldn’t even act on behalf of Speak Asia… they were just wasting the court’s time.
You can read more about the finer details here – https://behindmlm.com/companies/speak-asia-online/speak-asia-court-case-roundup-mon-12th-dec-2011/ (Speak Asia vs. CID).
Even today AISPA are appearing in court trying to stop the EOW from interrogating and holding AISPA President Melvin Crasto in custody.
This despite a judge granting custody to the EOW of Melvin after they showed evidence in court to suggest Crasto was receiving ‘unexplained’ sums of money totalling over $40,000 USD from Speak Asia.
I read it & keep it Xerox copy of comment’s page written by Irfan. It seems you don’t have any concrete counter to pull the leg of Irfan. Keep it up, we don’t mind !!
@arvind
Irvin is wasting our time arguing if he can’t produce a client list. You are too if you’re going to suggest there are clients.
Proof has been given to the contrary, to date no proof has been shown to suggest Speak Asia have clients.
Unless you can provide said proof, end of discussion.
OZ, Read here you’ll gets you answers: NDA: Non Disclosure Agreement that every company signs with every online market research company before giving them their research work.
You will never see any client name on any online market research company (except advertisements) check http://www.toluna.com. Surveys are done by companies to understand public orientation, mindset and various other information’s for achieving their certain objectives. Surveys are designed to meet these objectives.
There are various type of survey the one called branding survey which Speak Asia did for their clients Bata and Cafe Coffee Day, Panelists who participated got paid and free vouchers from both companies. http://www.facebook.com/iamspeakasia?sk=app_11007063052
The NDA is irrelvant and proves nothing. It was only introduced after Speak Asia had to confess they lied about their clients and does not adequately address the EOW’s charge they have no clients, Khandor’s signed confession and the question of what company in their right mind are paying at least 3.8 million USD per survey.
Additionally Speak Asia attempted to disclose clients and were caught out lying, following this why the sudden shift in policy?
One would think proving they had survey clients in the face of being the largest ponzi scheme in the history of India would override the so-called protecting themselves from competitors.
I mean it’s not like competitors can’t just approach companies themselves. To date, not one name has been released.
As you note, Speak Asia handed out vouchers from said companies upon completion of a survey Speak Asia created.
There is no confirmation that either Bata or Cafe Coffee Day commissioned any surveys from Speak Asia.
Think about it, if they did, Speak Asia would be trumpeting their names from the rooftops as proof they had clients and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Oz.,
Pls. Leave it, kindly avoid asking for client list, how these people know the client list if it is not there, you also asking all of them repeatedly, even if clients were there I feel they won’t show them openly as Irfan tells, we had to understand his point also, so let’s stop discussing in that regard and focus on court’s verdict.
Unnecessarrily we are taking the matter so seriously with high tension in a more debatable fashion. You also not a member of Speak Asia, I’m also not a member in Speak Asia, why unnecessarily we want to fight or create debate on the topic of ‘cleints’ in front of lakh and lakh of members whose money is left inside this company.
Please focus on some other topic, it’s really boring with these Speak Asians and also your repeated answers for them. So many people have lost their money who’re sitting outside and watching silently. They don’t know what to do with this situation.
For them, someone has to come forward and give back their money what they’ve lost in this fraudulent scheme. May God help!
I concur and I’ve said as much.
This makes no sense, because Speak Asia already divulged a client list. They were just stupidly naive to think that the companies they named wouldn’t take notice and deny any association with them.
Having learnt their lesson, to date Speak Asia haven’t publicly lied about anymore companies it claims bought surveys off them.
As it stands, the EOW have gone on the public record with a signed confession from a man who states Speak Asia hired him to make up the company’s surveys.
Unless anyone can provide a client list there are no clients. Further discussion on this without concrete proof there clients will be nuked.
Then you have NO IDEA what NDA is.
NDA is used if confidential information is presented, and should not be disseminated.
For example, an entrepreneur, with a unique product or service, would request prospective investors to sign a NDA so the idea cannot be stolen.
While a company may request a market research company to sign an NDA, as a company may provide some confidential data to the research company, the fact that company works with the other company is NOT covered by the NDA. the PRODUCTS OR SERVICES are what’s covered by the NDA.
For example, if Tata provided some data on a new car not yet on the market to SAOL, and ask SAOL to get some surveys done, the data on the new car is covered by the NDA.
But there is no reason for Tata to keep secret the fact that it has commissioned a survey (for ANY company, not just SpeakAsia). It’s NOT worth keeping a secret about.
Well Speakasia first openly disclosed that they did surveys for Bata, Nestle, etc etc… then denied… and when asked for names of client now, they state NDA reason…
Why? NDA was not in place when they fraudulently took names of Bata, Nestle, etc??
Ritesh, the problem is his point makes no sense.
Let me give an example.
Let’s say… I ask you a deeply personal question.
you gave me a reply, and you told me “don’t tell anyone else I said that.”
Perfectly understandable, yes. That’s NDA. (Don’t tell anyone)
However, if anybody else asks you “Do you know Chang?” (NOT asking about the secret) and you said “I can’t tell you.” THAT IS A VERY STRANGE ANSWER.
This is what SAOL is doing.
Why? Why is the fact that SAOL has clients a secret?
Thus far, the ONLY explanation given was “Manoj Kumar said so.”
That’s hearsay. That’s uncorroborated statement. It’s NOT proof.
And some people are getting mad because we’re pointing out this makes no sense.
Why keep a client list secret? There are no reasons to do so. the NDA angle doesn’t hold water.
(And without paying clients, the whole thing IS a Ponzi scheme)
Also if the Audits of SOAL are clear, then the client names would be out in the open. Since they would have to show from whom they received the money, etc??
Ofcourse the details of the agreement between SOAL and client could be held outside the prospect of general public.
Also there is no proof on the actual owners/investors of SOAL. Its all linked to British Virgin islands and cayman island.
And to all those WHO claim that SOAL has clients who paid 100 crore per (useless) survey, have they signed the so called NDA with SOAL?
Earlier StarNews repeatedly (around 22days) asked Bata, Nastle ect denied, Speak Asia has no client & AajTak copied same news & Headlines, Zeebusiness ect almost entire print,digital media enquiry about clients & caravanning during the period of April -August 2011 saying No Client, No Client, No Client (Haha).
Now each one keeps quite expect adopted overseas media “behindmlm”!!…… Did all media catch the client list beforehand??? No. Easy to pick up lists you can walk off towards various court & start outcry their rather than encoding here with old keyboard & mouse.
For what intend, you were replicate same queries again & again?? Hope you were desire for documentation of all individual’s feedbacks to make documentary film of Speak Asia. Let’s hang-on…….. You’ll get entire list from court & we will retrieve our invested amounts !!
I’m sorry, was there a point there Arvind?
You admit Speak Asia lied and seem to be laughing about it.
Nobody is asking for a list, even one client would do. To date no company name has been released by Speak Asia that wasn’t found to be lies.
It makes no sense that they only whacked on a NDA once their lies were exposed. One minute they announce their alleged clients themselves, and the next they demand people sign a NDA?
Scam.
This 3.8 Million has got frozen it seems in your mind. Let’s take forward your hypothesis and assume that the panelist base has increased to 6 Million . Now if the surveys be commissioned based on the number of panelist a company has, this figure of 3.8 Million will increase to 19 Million . How will the surveys be commissioned in this case. Your views invited…
@Sanjeev, thats what we are asking? Speakasia claims that they sell the surveys to clients. The amount made by the surveys is what is distributed to the panelists. The amount 11000 you pay is purely for ezine magazine.
So in simple terms, if you pay 500 rupees for each and everyone’s opinion, means with the current membership base they have to make atleast 100 crore per survey to break even (20 Lakh x 500 = 100 Crore). Which company would pay for opinion of just 20 lakh people?
And remember, not all 20 lakh would be relevant. Say for eg, a automobile company conducts surveys for cars, tell me how many of these 20 lakh members would be well read and experienced about cars? and for this you want us to believe some company actually coughed up that much money???
My point of starting this debate was also this. If this is such a plain simple logic then this company would have already run away. There is still something which is not being seen by us and hence let’s debate further on this issue. Because what I feel is that even a layman can understand this simple logic
But I fail to understand why this company openly challenged all the authorities to investigate its operations and give a clean chit.
There is something…..which is not yet visible ….
@ Sanjeev, who says company is openly challending authorities??
Haren Kaur -> No idea where she is
Manoj Kumar -> Absconding
Tarak Bajpai -> Absconding
Remaining Members are either absconding or in Jail.
So basically the entire top line is absconding or in Jail.
Now they know that as more and more FIRs get registered, the seriousness would increase and various agencies would be pressurized to the core, so they would have to increase speed of investigation. So Speakasia is simply filing various cases either for quashing FIRs or for settlement of payment with some 100 odd crores in bank…
Basically speakasia is doing playing delay tactics, in this way many would loose hope and move on and they could easily defend few FIRs.
Finally defending itself in court doesn’t mean they are innocent or pure. They are defending themselves, else their promoters/directors etc would be sent to Jail. And remember running out of the country is not an option for everyone
sanjeev you are right .
the above calculations will automatically fly in the face of logic.
you are right that there is something which is not yet seen by many of us.
there is a whole different angle to the surveys and to the question of saol’s revenue stream.
even if saol is compressed to half it’s size or expanded to double ,it will remain viable.
but since matters are subjudice this cannot be outed on open forums .
Thanks Anju. I just want to avoid this debate but somehow or the other they just throw such a useless and baseless logic that my conscience doesn’t allow me to keep quite.
Your memories are very short.. Speakasia first declared its such intentions in the press conference and later on through a publicly released letter to RBI. Was that not an open challenge?
I have not seen any company asking government to understand their business (unless they have a very solid legal footing). You seem to forget that there was even a high court order which stated that RBI should allow proper hearing to the company..
And by the way no one is absconding. They are yet to be summoned by the authorities. Unless and until they are summoned and they don’t appear or refuse those summons they can not be called absconding.
Why will the FIRs be registered. Company never defaulted on its payments until the banking operations were frozen. Just come out of your self acclaimed notions.
@Sanjeev,
RBI Company laws doesn’t come under RBI’s preview. Its the work of SEBI and other regulatory body.
RBI is purely related to Banking & Finance related stuff.
Also when its clear that RBI didn’t ask banks to freeze accounts, why speakasia is still not opening banking channels? The reason is that EOW, SFIO, etc are still investigating and gathering evidence. Now don’t tell me that EOW & SFIO is influenced by some rival, cauze such powerful rival (if any) could have even influenced RBI, wouldn’t it?
riffraff
the world has progressed.
just because you cant see the people named by yourself, does not mean they’ve disappeared from the face of the earth.
they are fully in charge of the situation.
you think saol lawyers work on autopilot?
tarak bajpai is in mumbai under the gaze of the eow.nobody is running away.they’re fighting hard and except for the time component, which feels like an irritant, are making all the right moves to wards the goal.
riffraff and party need to make up their mind about fir’s.
when i say the eow needs lots of fir’s ,they take the stand that the number of fir’s is not important.
but to prove their own point right they can fall back on many fir’s means faster more multi pronged investigations.but then they change their colors according to the flavor of the day so who cares.
the company is paying only because it wants to restart.
if they thought they would not be able to restart they would have kept shut and not offered to pay.
the money is out ,manoj is out ,haren is out -they’re home free.
why bother about business associates like tark and dandekar,
they can easily be sacrificed for such large sums of money.
when the company gets clearance from the supreme court to pay they will move money back into india ,they just want the green signal of the court.
as we can see ,payment of exit optioners as a priority will definitely happen and pretty soon.
this reassures me that the company will restart too because they’re not fools to bring in money if they were not absolutely SURE THAT THEY WILL RESTART.
Wrong! See for yourself
This is interesting: Bizbasket explains how much panels a single person can buy?
Remember the persons asking for payment are proud speakasians. I really don’t understand why you have to buy panel(s)?
Link like this are generally removed as we know.
one last thing
the banks are not cooperating ONLY AND ONLY due to the rbi cautionary circular.
which is why explaining the business model and financials of the company to the rbi was of utmost imoportance.
agreed the rbi does not have the authority to approve the saol business model ,but their own understanding of saol’s stand at least put their misgivings to rest.
if the lahoti commitee comes out with a favorable reoport then i’m sure rbi will take suitable action to ensure saol has access to banking channels.
as i see it i believe we should get a favorable report from justice lahoti.
goodnight.
I agree with you, Nithya Ritesh. Spending too much time discussing a few “technical details” isn’t worth it. It’s possible to sum up these points from both viewpoints, and then “agree to disagree” on them.
Most of these people would manage the situation better if they realized that most of their money is lost, instead of reading and listening to “motivational speeches”. They don’t protect their own interests by accepting these speeches.
Speakasia’s crisp and to the point answers. 🙂
norway
what part of this repetitive debate have you missed out on ?/?
the lahoti committee mediation is over.
in early january the supreme court will make it’s ruling on the matter.
i don’t see the supreme court disallowing payments to exit optioners as the company is willing to bring money in.
mr ritesh you will be amongst the first beneficiaries.
instead of complaining a nice thank you would be pleasant, seeing that speakasians have been fighting for your rights, and even going to jail for you .
compensation in 2010
compensation in jun 2010
@anju
“Confidence is high that everyone will get paid before Christmas.”?
It’s a famous expression used in scams. You’ll just have to adjust the payment date to some other date in a not too far future, like “before the end of January”. In the middle of January you can adjust the date even further, to “in the middle of March”.
They’ll just have to wait until the company is ABSOLUTELY SURE they can restart? 🙂
@anju
The “technical details” I was talking about was whether or not Speak Asia had any real clients, some companies that actually PAID for the surveys. It’s possible to agree to disagree on something, rather than discussing it in details.
By the way, welcome back. We began to feel too comfortable here.
Cheers! Anju, Thanks for giving breakfast to all challengers, good night to you but we should say good morning to Chang & OZ as they breathe from reverse position (might be from US).
Their intelligence also stirring in the opposed movement, that’s why they (adopted Media) are powerless to assimilate soft news & every time they require to convey tough (gossip) news to deliver quick verdict from his bench.
norway
every step of the judicial fight has been in full public view except for the closed door lahoti committee meetings.
the court dates have been up and out for everybody’s consumption.
you cannot blame us if judicial processes are slow and it should be obvious even to the slow minded that at least the first step of allowing payments to exit optioners will come to fruition soon.
the rest will follow more speedily after that.
it’s really nice of you to keep welcoming me back ,but there are certain uncouth uncultured dehumanized blokes here who need thorough lessons in etiquette.
well,it seems arvind wants me to sign off now so that you can enjoy your boys only party.
have fun .
@Sanjeev
Exactly.
This is one reason why the Speak Asia business model is a scam. With no products to sell membership fees will always be their primary source of revenue. Or only source as it stands now.
Of course they are. Anju herself admitted Speak Asia’s lawyers have told management to go into hiding so as to avoid the authorities.
With no known address (Kumar and Kaur are hiding overseas don’t forget), how is anyone to summon them?
@anju
and you shitkickers in the downline are left holding the bag. This is how scams the world over work.
The real tragedy here is you think you’re going to somehow get past this… and worse still, that a simple ponzi scheme is going to miraculously avoid criminal charges and be allowed to restart operations.
Seeing as the RBI never advised the banks to not allow any transactions from Speak Asia (as per their own admission), this is false.
The RBI circular points out nothing that is new, that Speak Asia is known to be under criminal investigation and by helping them they are potentially liable.
Pity the Supreme Court has no say in the matter seeing as it’s not a bank. The banks won’t do business with Speak Asia until the criminal matters are concluded.
Yet another Speak Asia related court case not to be heard until 2012: AISPA’s silly writ has been delayed until January 16th.
Although I suppose we can’t really call it AISPA’s writ anymore seeing as a judge ordered them to remove themselves from it because they lack any official authority.
Hereafter we’ll call it the Crasto writ. Crasto is petitioning the EOW to stop them investigating him, lol.
well soapbox ,we know how to go with the flow .
let it not be an ‘aispa ‘writ and let it be a writ on behalf of panelists if required.
will that change the nature of the relief we have pleaded for ?
technicalities do not change the soul of the matter.
aispa is fighting for all the panelists ,aispa is not looking to win the padmashri medal.
as for the delay in hearing the matter i’m sure you know the reason.
the vacations are one reason and you know the other.
we have always known that time is both a enemy and a friend and it does not deter us.
what’s in a date ? it will come as surely as today has come .
since you brought up the matter of castro, i would like to bring up the fact that melvyn, while in the custody of the eow, chose to sign a writ petition against the eow.
guts anybody?
if melvyn is the only person in a room you probably won’t notice him.
he is so simple and an unassuming and barely talks.
when all other leaders refused to give their name to this fight ,he , a senior panelist without a thought came forward and even gave his residential address as the associations address.
for about a month before his arrest he was continually advised by ashok bahirwani and other active speakasians to retire from the scene for some time .
his response ? why to run? whatever has to happen will happen.
simple people who have nothing to hide are the worst adversaries because for how long can you pick on them?
the truth will prevail finally.
god bless everybody with a backbone like melvyn’s.
before you go to bed tonight say a prayer for melvyn and his lovely family.
So your logic basically is: they are innocent because they are fighting.
Which can be summarized as:
A: SAOL is fighting
B: guilty party do not fight
therefore
C: SAOL is not guilty
Since B is patently false, your logic holds no water. Add to the fact that Manoj Kumar never came back to fight, and it’s clear you’re holding an illogical position.
i heave read allthe conversation here.Speak asia ia 100% fraud ans a ponzi scheme.Now onlything we have to see how the indian Govt handles it honestly.
Why cant they areest haren and in singapore and in dubai and if yes why they have not done so far.
@anju — same thing I told Sanjeev would apply to you too, it seems.
Apparently Melvin Crasto trusted in Bahirwani and SAOL too much for his own sake, it seems.
@anju
1.
In your own words, I believe most of the panelists can be sacrificed, too?
It should be a lot more easier to sacrifice most of the panelists, rather than trusted associates?
2.
I was about to add “Some noise makes the peace and quiet feel even better, when the noise stops”, but I decided to drop it. 🙂
Personally, I’ll prefer some differences in opininons, so you’re welcomed and accepted by me. Usually I don’t bother to get involved in those discussions, anyway.
By the way, we usually don’t “teach people” from our own viewpoint, we teach them from their viewpoint if we wants to succeed in the teaching. Teaching from your own vewpoint reminds more of a need for expressing your own viewpoint than of teaching.
This means, if I want to teach you something, then I’ll have to accept some of your ideas first. I don’t have to agree with them, but at least I’ll have to accept them. I’ll have to do some changes in my own mindset first if I want to succeed.
I believe you’ll need to make some changes in you own mindset before you’ll have any chances of success?
3.
I haven’t studied the exit option, and how panelists have been informed of that option. Most of the information I have read on Speak Asia’s own sites have been “motivational speeches” with little valuable information. I have actually tried to find information there, on a few different sites.
I’ll believe if all panelists use this exit option, the company will have less than 5 percent of the money owed in “Reward Points”, to cover the claims? This includes both the money frozen in India and the money siphoned abroad.
If I could just bring us back to this line from Sanjeev Khanna:
Funny he should mention that, the TOI today quoted the Maharashtra government, specifically Home Minister R.R. Patil, stating
Speak Asia and it’s absconding management are used in an example by the Indian government when discussing absconding offenders.
I also like how the Minister cites Speak Asia as a prime example of criminal fraud. Alleged only because, due to the difficulties in carrying out a criminal investigation into an international money laundering fraud, the criminal case is still underway before charges are brought forward.
But it’s not even that, Melvin Crasto is the only signed petitioner on the writ now isn’t he? It’s a one man writ trying to stop police investigating said lone petitoner.
Imagine every criminal petioning the government against arresting and investigating them… what a joke.
Actually a judge has ruled precedent that AISPA have no legal standing in court to represent anybody but themselves. AISPA were kicked off their own writ petition.
So what exactly, other than running around begging for money to fund Melvin Crasto’s legal defense, are AISPA doing?
Sure, same reason everything else is being delayed: The EOW’s investigation is more important.
Of course he was urged to dissappear, just like the rest of Speak Asia’s management. Crasto was receiving kickbacks from Speak Asia, naturally the EOW were going to catch up with him sooner or later.
As for being a hero… everyone knows he’ll dissappear upon bail – why do you think a judge keeps denying Crasto bail?
You need a pretty rock solid case to go applying for international arrest warrants. The EOW as evidenced by the arrests of Crasto and Dandekar are slowly making their way up the top of the Speak Asia management chain. We’ll just have to see what they uncover.
The EOW have already publicly stated numerous times that they want Kumar and Kaur in for questioning, but they continue to hide overseas – knowing that for now the Indian authorities can’t reach them.
Typical behaviour of, as the Indian government puts it, ‘white-collar criminals‘.
@sg
Arresting a foreign citizen in their own country is more difficult than arresting your own citizens.
* I believe Haren is a citizen of Singapore, and have been so for several years? I believe the only possibility is if she comes voluntarily to India. She can be investigated in Singapore by the police there, and also be prosecuted for any criminal activity (including activity in foreign countries).
* Manoj Kumar is an Indian citizen, and I believe he is currently in Brazil or in Dubai. It’s possible to arrest him if they use an international arrest order, involving Interpol. NOTE: He will have to return to India sooner or later, anyway, before his passport expires.
* Elia de Prisco and Antonio Grasso is Italian citizens, I believe. I don’t know if they were directly involved in something related to Speak Asia.
Each country will normally investigate and prosecute their own citizens, unless they’re arrested in a foreign country, and also depending on how serious the crime is. It will also depend on if the countries involved have signed agreements with each other.
It’s possible to get a Norwegian citizen arrested in Brazil, for crimes that have occured in Norway. It’s also possible to freeze bank accounts in Brazil, and also to seize property in Brazil belonging to the criminals. I have studied one actual case where all this happened.
Because Indian police have no jurisdiction in Singapore or Dubai or whereever Manoj Kumar is. They have to basically petition the other country’s courts to arrest the person (who will have a chance to contest the arrest), then extradite the guy back to India. It gets murkier if there are NO extradition treaties between the countries (i.e. I promise to hand over prisoners if you will do the same).
Just to cite a famous example, Julian Assange, of Wikileaks, was arrested in ENGLAND for a warrant out for his arrest in Norway (or is that Sweden? I kinda forgot), where he’s accused of rape. His case was tied up in courts for months where he’s alleging that US put pressure on Norway to come up with these charges, which he claimed are bogus.
FYI, Dubai, part of UAE, had an extradition treaty with India since 1997. I haven’t had a chance to verify this, but it seems legit.
http://uaeprison.com/extradition_treaty_india_uae_legal.htm
Interestingly, Brazil and India signed extradition memorandum of understanding in 2008.
http://news.oneindia.in/2008/04/15/india-brazil-ink-mous-extradition-treaty-1208233800.html
But it’s not even that, Melvin Crasto is the only signed petitioner on the writ now isn’t he?-soapbox
since aispa’s registration process was not compete ,the judge advised our senior supreme court counsel mr mathur [ a very smart move by mr abidi] to remove the word aispa and make it a petition by panelists asking for relief for themselves and all panelists.
there are clauses in the law that actually allow that even an unregistered association can appear in court ,but seeing the helpful mood of the judges ,our counsel decided not to draw on these clauses and simply run with the judge on his advice because it really made no difference to our case.
the writ is signed by melvyn and ashok bahirwani but the order ,whatever is passed will be applicable to all panelists.
Sure, same reason everything else is being delayed: The EOW’s investigation is more important.-soapbox
it’s really laughable that you think the courts are keeping an eye on the eow’s investigations and giving dates accordingly.
the judiciary is completely independent of whatever goes on outside of it .
court dates are given as per administrative rules, case loads and availability of the counsels from both sides.
mr mathur is tied up in the supreme court after the vacation and our counsel mr abidi thinks it’s prudent to wait a
little and take the benefit of mr mathurs expertise.the date is our choice.
the rest of your allegations don’t deserve an answer.
nobody is stupid to come and stand in front of the eow and say -please harass us.if they havent got enough material from company management and computers and sites and what not, they cannot in their frustration start picking up
panelists ,just to feel better.
once the company starts payments who can accuse them of cheating or breach of trust ? only the matter of the pcmc act will be left and under that act the police can call people for interrogation but cannot make arrests.
@ OZ.. Norway..
The only reason I think why EOW is delaying filing a charge-sheet against the bigwigs of SAOL is that the cover up is too big and the set up is too elaborate ..the web has been spun up so intricately that they are not finding the prime persons responsible any where..namely the PAL brothers and their friend..the Master mind of the scam..
hence if they move in and call Interpol with red corner notices for Kumar and Kaur..the birds..(Pals) will simply slip away in oblivion and never get caught..they(EOW) will never throw caution to wind and do anything hastily.
Until they have a solid watertight case against Pals/Kumar/Kaur they will not move in.
As whereas the question that arises constantly in mind.. why did SAOL did not run away when they were exposed by STAR Tv..in May.. ?? Normally a scam runs for about 18 to 24 months and then scamsters simply disappear.. with the money..
also the sum involved is about $50 to $100 million ..this one went out of hand and that too very fast..the jump of recruitment of “Panelists” moved up from 5000 a day to 35000 a day..and the management must have thought (read become greedy) to let the ball roll a few more times before quitting from the game..
but then this “Unfortunate incident ” in Goa of that Gentleman blabbing about Icici Bank, Nestle etc .. being their clients came out and then Hell broke loose.. .
Majority of the money got stuck here and they had to come in front for the Press Conference and hence in limelight..Henceforth it became more difficult to simply vanish..Kumar and Kaur barely managed to escape and Tarak got stuck behind.. the only visible link that could have lead to Kaur and Kumar..hence this fightback and delay tactics of all sorts to cover up the tracks in all ways..
like spending tons of money on Lawyers etc.. they thought that if enough support from panelists could be garnered up it will definitely slow down/tone down (the birth of AISPA)..the investigation by the Govt. Agencies…and they succeeded in doing that..$100 Million siphoned off due to error in judging of the scam by the Authorities..Job well done..
( I honestly still ponder why did Eow move in to arrest Tarak in India wherein Kaur/Kumar were still abroad..I mean the case would have been over if any one of them had been caught..Oz/Chang..can we have your thought on this..)..
Could it have been that they were tipped off before..but could not pull Tarak out as he was watched over by Authorities.
The proverbial Axe started falling on the First Group of Panelists ..(Lot more look to be on line..with EOW getting more breathing space..till Feb,2012.)
December has been rocking till now..Wish all of you Guys a Smashing Christmas and looking forward to a Very Good New Year for all of us..(specially the panelists..praying to God they get back their money)..God Bless us All..
@anju
No. The order dated 14 December from the judge clearly states:
AISPA are legally unable to represent the panelists as a whole, so being able to transfer over a writ petition in the name of all panelists makes no sense.
People need to sign a petition to be a part of it, AISPA can’t just decide that because they have to remove themselves from a petition that all of a sudden 1.2 million people are the petitioners.
Furthermore the writ petition is against the arrest of Crasto. The EOW are holding Crasto on evidence presented to the court that he’s not just a mere panelist. What does this have to do with all panelists?
I think best we wait till the new orders are posted from yesterday (if they are at all). Your intel makes no sense.
Tell that to the EOW. How many hearings have they not bothered to rock up to now?
Yes, yes. One day ‘the courts are bogged down and things have to move slowly’ and the next it’s ‘we’re choosing to wait 3 weeks because our counsel is busy’.
Whatever excuses fit Ms. Bahirwani.
We’ll see when and if the order is released what happened.
@Mr Y
If you look at AdMatrix, that was what was supposed to happen with Speak Asia, but didn’t. As for why? Only Kumar, Kaur and whoever else is in hiding knows.
My theory on Bajpai is that he was just a showpony frontman and as such no effort appears to have been put into keeping track of him. The EOW have Dandekar now who appears to be the actual COO of the company… and they don’t appear to be letting him go till they’re done with him.
What intel the EOW get from Dandekar is yet to be seen.
Personally I believe given that Kaur appears to be just a money woman, management were stuck in India and/or unable to leave. This might have been due to family commitements or what not who knows.
Kumars family is stuck in India whilst he’s hiding in Dubai… that’s something to think about.
And as the EOW investigation continues I’m sure they’re putting together the India level management structure if they don’t already have a decent enough picture of it by now. Being a criminal investigation we don’t get to see any results till they make their moves.
I guess whilst Podium Ring/Seven Rings still have enough millions to justify trying to legalise a ponzi scheme in India they will. Dunno how much longer it’ll go on for though, 6 months of lawyer fees must be eating into the money Kaur ran off with.
How many times this person Anju will keep lying or twisting stories. This is what she writes about the AISPA writ
=======
since aispa’s registration process was not compete ,the judge advised our senior supreme court counsel mr mathur [ a very smart move by mr abidi] to remove the word aispa and make it a petition by panelists asking for relief for themselves and all panelists.
==========
And this what the judgement says
The order dated 14 December from the judge clearly states:
If the petitioner No.1 (AISPA) is an unregistered association, it is not competent to pursue relief, more so, for quashing of C.R. to which it is not a party.
We, therefore, direct the petitioners to delete petitioner No.1 (AISPA).
======================
This is what people in Pyramid schemes do, keep telling lies and make fake positive news.
what is the court order saying?
aispa is not registered so it cannot be a party .aispa cannot ask for quashing of the fir as it is not registered.
did they dismiss the writ -no.
under law even a single person who is affected by the said fir can approach the law asking to be protected and asking for the fir to be quashed.
if an order is passed that this panelist requires protection from arrest ,then every other panelist will be protected because they share the same legal status.
this is what our lawyer says but of course you know better.
the eow can avoid and delay but sooner or later the law will catch up with them.our courts have the power to stop an investigation if they find the fir faulty.
when ashish dandekar gets bail i’m sure you’ll say that he too was just a show pony and you’ll transfer the crown to the person freshly picked up by the eow. tarak bajpai also spent 45 days in jail.
Yes, yes. One day ‘the courts are bogged down and things have to move slowly’ and the next it’s ‘we’re choosing to wait 3 weeks because our counsel is busy’.-soapbox
well soapbox we won’t be arranging court dates for your entertainment value.
the first date offered was 9 jan but mr mathur was not available so he took the next available date of 16 jan.
simple ,no big secret here.
by the way how do you know that kumars family is still in india?
sameer if you dont know how to read legal documents it’s entirely your problem.
the court order said delete aispa ,amend the writ and thats what the lawyers did and the next hearing is on jan 16.
@anju
No.
The court order is stating ‘if the petitioner No.1 (AISPA) is an unregistered association, it is not competent to pursue relief and ‘more so, for quashing of C.R. to which it is not a party’.
The judge ordered the removal of AISPA from the writ altogether because they are not a party to the C.R., the fact that they are not a registered association only further strengthens the judges position – that’s to what ‘more so’ use in the judgement means.
A C.R. (if I’m understanding correctly) is a ‘Criminal Habeas Corpus‘;
By reasoning of the judge in forcing the removal of AISPA from the writ, Crasto’s arrest has nothing to do with anyone except Crasto and the party that arrested him, the EOW. Anyone else is ‘is not a party‘ and ‘not competent to pursue relief’.
Please don’t attempt to twist the judge’s exact order, it’s right there in English for everybody to see.
Suggesting every panelist is on the writ (or Bahirwani for that matter) makes no sense. I’m tempted to say it’s a bald faced lie, but in the absense of a transcript of the court order I’ll refrain.
As for the FIR, multiple agencies have accused Speak Asia of crimes so no court is going to just make all that go away. Furthermore today you had Home Minister R.R. Patil
The EOW’s investigation is top priority at the moment, everything is just action launched by Speak Asia and its associates to prevent investigations from being carried out against them and waste time.
If Speak Asia were serious about answering its charges Manoj Kumar and Harendar Kaur wouldn’t be in hiding. They’d be in India answering any questions the authorities have on Speak Asia.
Instead we have idiotic cases in the Supreme Court launched by Speak Asia against the CID trying to stop them even investigating the company…
Thankfully the court keeps pushing these cases further and further back so they effectively mean little whilst the EOW carry on their investigation.
@ Mr. Y
SAOL’s Chief Marketing Officer Vivek Gautam had been publically uttering all these names of fictitious clients for more than a month prior to the Goa bash during May 8-10, 2011.
In a press conference held in Gorakhpur on March 31, 2011 as reported in Amar Ujala on April 1, 2011, he stated that SAOL was doing surveys for more than 600 companies including ICICI, Bata, Nestle and Airtel and the panelists were being paid out of survey income earned by SAOL from these 600 companies.
In an article dated April 13, 2011, Moneylife commented:
Obviously, Star TV Channel was also hotly pursuing SAOL’s alleged clients for their confirmation/denial regarding commissioning of surveys through SAOL. Probably Star TV received messages of denial from these ‘clients’ of SAOL, well before the Goa meet was held.
Star TV would have prepared its explosive telecast well before the Goa meet. All they needed was to corner Vivek Gautam at Goa repeating his lies in front of Star TV reporter’s camera and simply add this footage to the famous telcast released on May 11, 2011 which derailed SAOL.
congrats soapbox you have given an entirely different direction to OUR writ who’s copy is on my desk.
our writ asks that the panelists be given protection from arrest by the eow .
our writ says quash the fir as it is bad in law.
but you naturally must be right [that is a preordained truth].
so you go right ahead and fight ‘your ‘case all you want, meanwhile we’ll just fight our ‘fictitious’ case .
Given that it’s not “your” writ anymore, I really don’t care to hear about what you have until the order is released.
A C.R. is very specific and I’ve provided an explanation below.
If the judge actually ordered what you’re saying, it’ll be interesting to see their reasoning. Till then, what you are saying makes no sense – I’ve already given my solid reasoning backed by the judge’s own words so I’m not going to repeat myself.
If the judge actually ordered what you’re saying, -soapbox
the judge hasn’t ordered anything yet ,i just told you what our writ says.
yes ,your copy paste of ACR is perfect but unfortunately has nothing to do with this writ.
No… of course it’s not relevant. That’s why the judge mentioned it specifically in the last order demanding that AISPA be removed from the writ petition they had filed seeing as they had nothing to do with a C.R. between Melvin Crasto and the EOW.
And of course the judge ordered something, seeing as a new date was fixed.
Despite the judge’s comments, your alternate reality is fast shifting from comical to rather sad.
Till the order is released there’s not much point discussing your alternate reality with you but I’ll leave the discussion up as is for everyone else to read.
They can verify anything I’ve written themselves as per the judge’s last order – as usual you’ve provided nothing to back up your claims.
i am sitting with a copy of the writ petition and i’m living in an alternate reality.
that’s rich .
yes yes yes aispa has been removed from the writ but there the fact ends and your story begins.
you are now creating high court cases with your imagination.it’s spectacular and stunning.
anyhows please keep your FANS informed about castro’s ACR or whatever case.we are just depending on his bail hearing on the 30 th dec.
by the way the judge ordered a new date to allow our lawyers to amend the writ –ie–delete aispa and let the writ stand on the signatures of castro and bahirwani.
also another respondent had to be served.
the eow PP fought bitterly to have this writ dismissed and a certain gentleman was physically removed from the court for being an irritant.
however the judges maintained that they saw MATTER in the writ and wished to hear it.
the writ has been accepted by the high court after the amendment and due serving of notices , and the next hearing is on 16 jan. when’s yours?
Oz and Anju Ma’m – The thing I can infer here is that AISPA as an association has been removed from the Writ . Now whether it was removed on Judges Orders or Advice , I think that is irrelevant.
Secondly till the time AISPA is fighting in its own capacity or on behalf of panelists, the fact still remains that the court has admitted the same for hearing.
That’s all.. Nothing is more important than the gist of the thing. All other things discussed above becomes irrelevant.
@anju
I believe you on this …
You seems to have the right experience in being physically removed for being an irritant, “fighting bitterly” and all the other experience needed. 🙂
sanjeev
right said bro.
norway
i hate to break your heart but i wasn’t there.
@anju
I wasn’t thinking of “there”, either. The comment was related to “here on this blog”. And I liked the expression “being physically removed as an irritant”.
It’s also a bit early to care about breaking my heart. We haven’t reach this stage yet, we haven’t even been dating. 🙂
ha ha ha
nice on Norway
@Oz
Some days ago I have posted this. Now I think “EOW” removed the page.
Update: Dandekar appears to have once again been denied bail based on the evidence the EOW have on him. This is from his latest bail application earlier this week.
The EOW aren’t letting this one slip through until they’re done with him, and they appear to have more than enough evidence provind Dandekar’s involvement to have satisfied a judge on multiple occasions now.
Guess we’ll find out if they’re finished with Crasto yet on the 30th. Meanwhile, the Crasto writ being heard in January seems largely useless now. By then surely the EOW will have either filed charges against Crasto or gotten rid of him as they’ve learnt all they can from him.
Finally I have it on good authority (not officially confirmed though) that the EOW have attempted to contact Bahirwani twice now to bring him in for questioning.
Apparently he’s not answering his phone… anju will deny this outright being Bahirwani’s daughter but well, we all know she still thinks Bajpai, Kumar and Kaur aren’t in hiding either.
The buzz is that being scared of EOW catching up with him, Bahirwani has remained underground since last few weeks.
Oh, I can see where AISPA’s writ is written… (following is merely conjecture on my part)
Bahirwani/AISPA: the court, please don’t arrest AISPA members as they are victims!
EOW: Victims? Not all of them. We have enough to show that some are taking money from SAOL beyond that of a panelist which makes them co-conspirators to the top of the pyramid.
Judge: so how do you separate the victims from the conspirators?
EOW: We need more time, your honor. We need to trace the money. Also, AISPA, which claims to represent “all” panelists, cannot be separated as per above, so they cannot be a party in the suit.
Judge: agreed
Oz
In Criminal Writ Petition 3611 of 2011 the Bombay High Court has asked the counsel for the two remaining Petitioners Melvin Crasto and Ashok Bhairwani to amend the Petition and make me a party as I am the original complainant in FIR no. 153 of 2011 renumbered as CR no. 60 / 2011.
On instructions of the Court I have been served a copy of the amended Petition 3611/2011 as well as a copy of the copy book in Civil Writ no. 383/2011 in the Supreme Court. It contains the replies of Tarak Bajpai for Speak Asia and an affidavit of Harender Kaur. Very interesting.
I was served on 21.12.2011 at about 11.55 am and from the record of 22.12.2011 it seems the case was adjourned to 16.01.2012 without a hearing as I was not present at 5.00 pm but was there at 3.00 pm.
@ Anju,
Many people believe that Speak Asia is a money chain company. As of the simple reason that they don’t sell any product, services.
Most of the Promoters also admit that problem with business replica is that it looks like money chain company. But some of them argue that it is different. How is it different? Speak Asia itself never answer this question.
Yeah, Mr. chang ! You are correct, money chain & money laundering Mechanism like SpeakAsia mechanism should be disallows enduringly & all apex promoters, supporters should migrate to the Tihar Jail without delay.
You think Bahirwani will be issuing statements via video much like (now deceased) Osama Bin Laden and Manoj Kumar?
Maybe Anju would know. 😀
https://behindmlm.com/companies/speak-asia-online/speak-asia-ceo-manoj-kumar-investing-in-brazil/
Same News which has come in (Times group) Mumbai Mirror dated today 24th Dec, 2011.
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?page=article§id=15&contentid=20111224201112240225226865f45d65d
Great work by Oz.,
Oz
Your mister colibri news has come on front page of Mumbai Mirror owned by The Times of India, and how it is linked to Manoj Kumar.
Eow has named Behind MLM who got in touch with them and exposed mistercolibri as company linked to speakasia, admatrix and seven rings.
Here is the link.
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/15/20111224201112240225226865f45d65d/After-duping-23-lakh-Indians-SpeakAsia-resurfaces-in-Brazil.html
@K. Chang
Now you have to slow down a bit. Haven’t you noticed that Anju hates to break my heart, and that I have suggested that first we should meet on a date, before we reach the stage of breaking my heart?
It’s rather hopeless for me to create the right mood when you hang around here. You don’t contribute very much to create a romantic atmosphere here. 🙂
You had the chance to play your cards right, you too, but I decided to do it rather than think about it for too long. 🙂
norway
there are doctors for infantile hormonal aberrations.
but shush now.
nobody should EVER rain on the parade of a bride on her wedding day.
I think there’s a gene for gullibility too… Apparently Anju has it, and it’s inherited.
Oz
Criminal Writ Petition 3611 of 2011 has not been admitted.
The High Court website clearly records that:
STATUS: Pre-admission
website – http://www.bombayhighcourt.nic.in
Maybe the remaining petitioners – Crasto and Bhairwani are in for a nasty surprise when the matter is heard on 16.01.2012.
The EOW have shown that they want it dismissed at pre-admission stage!
@Navniit
Yeah I dunno what anju is talking about as it clearly states it’s in pre-admission.
Given the judge booted out AISPA on the grounds they have nothing to do with the FIR or Crasto’s arrest, I don’t see how Bahirwani or the claim from anju that all panelists have been added to the petition can be.
I too think that whilst AISPA might have sought leave (for the third time) to rewrite the petition, if Bahirwani is signed it’ll just get knocked back again for the above reason.
Until Crasto is the sole signed petitioner I don’t see this petition going forward. Crying about the EOW arresting him is a matter between himself and the EOW (and Kkhosla as he filed the FIR that AISPA seem to think if they can invalidate will somehow erase Crasto’s Speak Asia kickbacks and halt investigation into the company…lol).
@anju
I had some difficulties interpreting the last part, so I selected a small part from Barbra Streisand’s “Don’t rain on my parade”.
But then, my infantile hormonal aberrations went absolutely wild, so I’ll have to slow down for almost a week, I’ll guess. 🙂
@Oz
My off-topic stuff in this thread is finished, except for maybe one answer to something.
I’m trying to create some solutions to different “signs” from some readers, about this website being a group of people with nearly identical interests – to attack Speak Asia and other people’s interests.
It’s possible that I will introduce some additional topics in an old thread, the one about Carbon Copy Pro. They will be more related to this website’s basic ideas than to the thread itself.
Maybe we can post under the “MLM theory” topics, or have Oz create a new topic like “how to complain if you think you got scammed”
K. Chang
The topics I consider to introduce is more in the range “conflicts of interest” and general ideas in business and sales.
I don’t write “recipes”, “articles” or “guides”, so any thread will do as long as it’s pretty old and inactive (so off-topics won’t bother any). CCPro created some major conflicts of interest in 2009, and this means I will have an example for some of the topics right in front of me.
The expression “conflicts of interest” isn’t related to any of my own interests. It’s more related to identify interests in general, and to find solutions to avoid/reduce some of them. One of the specific conflicts that has triggered my instincts is the one where people feel this website is in major conflict with their own interests, in how to recover money from Speak Asia. I don’t have any solutions, but I will try to identify some.
“Conflict of Interest”, as in unethical behavior?
Like a CEO pretends to be a regular member? Or withholding information from the general membership?
The 30th December order is up for the Crasto writ 3611 petition.
Here’s what Anju said happened:
Here’s what actually happened:
1. AISPA was removed from the writ.
2. Bahirwani added himself because the EOW wish to interrogate him. There is no mention of ‘panelists’ on the writ as Anju claimed (ANR stands for another (Bahirwani), if there was a remote possibility that all panelists had been added, they’d be a party and ORS. (others) would have been used).
3. The matter was not heard, nor the writ formally accepted in its present form (it has just been submitted, as it has been twice before).
The matter was postponed due to a lack of time till the 16th of January, upon which the validity of the petition in it’s current form (previously ruled invalid twice before), will be determined.
I’ve updated the article with the relevant information.
Dandekar and Crasto’s bail applications apparently ran out of time on Friday, will be continued and ruled upon on Tuesday the 3rd I believe.
Meanwhile, according to AISPA the EOW investigation has led to another arrest:
Man, even on NYE these guys are still working away. Dunno who this guy is yet or what they’ve charged him with – hopefully we get more details tommorow.
Facebook Powers:
Ritesh Pal = Ram Sumiran/Ram Niwas Pal’s brother in law?
Looks like the noose it tightening… wonder what the evidence the EOW have to charge Ritesh Pal’s father is (doesn’t he have a name of his own?)
Still a complete blackout on the Ritesh Pal arrest, but it appears the EOW are done (for now) interrogating Dandekar and Crasto with both allegedly getting bail today.
Not sure what the conditions of bail are yet.
Correction: Nope, no bail today but the hearing was completed. Order will be handed down by the court on the 5th January (no idea if this has anything to do with the Speak Asia vs. EOW 5th Junuary court cases in the Mumbai High Court).
anju agarwal – bluffing about someones character
his father Ashok Bahirwani’s updates: 5th January, 2012
As bahirwani says Kuljeet Sharma is called for questioning but not for being a panelist as bahirwani says. He posted some offensive material on some bhaskar site, that’s why he was called. He has not just shared a story he made up the story and published it on internet.
Again and again it is not against a panelist but against who tried to defame a person using abusive post.
Guys… lets wait and watch…
The people in EOW and other organization aren’t fools. Sometimes they don’t oppose bail pleas to accused, but this is usually to use that person as a bait and track down other accused.
Or other reason could be that they’ve got all the information they needed.
So lets wait and watch…
Article updated with information regarding the 5th January 2012 bail application hearings.
Crasto and Dandekar remain in custody (as far as I know).
Interesting to note that Dandekar is being represented by none other than Phoenix Legal, who are Speak Asia’s lawyers.
What does Dandekar know about Speak Asia that the company is willing to send their own personal legal squad in to protect?
@Oz
In your update January 13 2012, I believe you have used the text from a ‘standard helpfile’ and interpreted it to be the actual court order.
An actual order will appear in green text a few lines below “History of Case Hearing” – under the section “Orders” – leading to a PDF.
Ah yeah, right you are. First time I’ve used the District Court website so lesson learnt.
Pretty much means that apart from seeing there’s no future date listed and learning that Dandekar was represented by Speak Asia’s lawyers… back to square 1 wondering what happened on the 5th then.
edit: The links I included both were temporary sessions that have now expired by the court website too, going to have to link to the search instead (useless website!).
I note that there is a Lower Court listing that is identical on both Crasto and Dandekar’s applications:
Interesting that they’re both involved in the same Criminal Case number 60/2011? Pretty much proves whatever the EOW has on these two is definitely connected. One would assume Bahirwani is involved too somehow if they’re interrogating him about the same matter.
Can’t seem to find any further information about what this case or what the decision or any orders relating to it are though.
@Oz
From your previous post
Ah, well that explains why Speak Asia, Crasto and Dandekar are going so hard against this FIR then.
The Kkhosla FIR was about non-payment from memory, wonder what Dandekar and Crasto (the “innocent panelist”) have to do with that… and more importantly what evidence the EOW have presented in court to implicate them both.
We know Dandekar was pretty much acting as COO the whole time but Crasto’s involvement remains a mystery.
I guess Speak Asia and Phoenix Legal figure if they get the Kkhosla FIR quashed it will follow that the investigation into the company and Dandekar, Crasto and whoever else is connected will just dissappear then too.
Good luck with that!
The order from the 6th has been published by the court, so I’ve updated the article with what we know at the current time.
Order from the 16th has also been added!
the above is the most important line from both the orders.
I missed that little tidbit, cheers.
So what, Lahoti’s original report achieved nothing and they’ve pulled him out of retirement again for a Lahoti Committee sequel?