Is Polaris being run by Scientologists a bad thing?
Recently the CEO of Polaris Media Group, Shane Krider came out and publicly admitted he was a Scientologist. Whilst Krider is certainly free to practice whatever religion wants, what concerned me was the large question mark looming over the involvement of Scientology in the business side of Polaris.
In his statement to Polaris Media Group distributors, Krider knew this concern was at the core of people’s interest in the correlation between the two organisations and thus was one of the points he addressed.
Polaris is purely a business opportunity. We focus on helping people be the best they can and live a great life.
Simple and to the point, only I wasn’t convinced.
When Polaris Media was trading as Liberty League one of their products, the original ‘Beyond Freedom’ as billed as having being authored by the co-founders of the company, Shane Krider and Brent Payne.
This claim can still be seen on the old Liberty League International website:
Beyond Freedom is a 90-day, multimedia personal development program produced by Company founders, Brent Payne and Shane Krider.
Brent and Shane have constructed a thorough system that works from the inside out.
The impression given is that the co-founders of Liberty League sat down and came up with this personal development program together.
If we fast forward past the NSW Office of Fair Trading declaring they had legal advice indicating Liberty League was a pyramid scheme, Brent Payne leaving the company and Liberty League quickly changing its name to Polaris Media Group, we arrive at the present day.
Like Liberty League before it, Polaris Media Group still offer the Beyond Freedom program although now it is somewhat broken up and titled Beyond Freedom Evolution.
The program is still billed as being created by Krider himself:
Beyond Freedom Evolution is Polaris Media Group’s flagship product. Produced by Company founder Shane Krider.
Now I’m not suggesting Krider authoring Beyond Freedom in itself as a person has any negative implications but lets stop for a second and think about what Beyond Freedom is.
Beyond Freedom is a personal development program filled with somebody’s on ideas on how to better yourself via personal development. These ideas came from somewhere and if Krider is authoring Beyond Freedom then presumably the ideas came from him.
So where does Krider get his own sense of personal development from? I’d argue that all religions in some way are a form of personal and spiritual development. Scientology in particular is widely recognised as having a strong focus on personal development via the use of the internally developed technologies utilised by the church.
Here’s how About.com describe Scientology.
Scientology is a personal development movement. It acknowledges that the abilities apparently possessed by an individual is only a fraction of his or her true potential, which include improved health, greater mental clarity, heightened perception and awareness, and a high level of personal integrity.
To suggest that the author of a personal development product, who is a member of a religion seemingly heavily invested into the personal development of its congregation was not at all influenced by his religion when creating his personal development products doesn’t seem to make much sense.
I mean if true then where did the ideas and concepts that are found in Beyond Freedom Evolution come from? And more importantly then why did Krider choose to ignore his own personal beliefs and development and draw inspiration from elsewhere?
I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he didn’t turn his back on his religious beliefs when creating Beyond Freedom. Although I still have no answer to his claim that “Polaris is purely a business opportunity.”
If Polaris was about selling soap, televisions, home loans or some other non-religious commodity then sure… separation from business and religious beliefs is certainly believable. When you’re talking about personal development however it’s a lot harder to claim the two are independent of eachother.
These lines are further blurred through the use of Scientology related phrases in Polaris Media Group advertising. Here’s a screenshot of a Polaris Promo that was used heavily during the company’s launch back in September.
To be ‘at cause’ or ‘at effect’ originated from Scientology and is one of the religion’s core principles. A more indepth explanation of being either at cause or at effect can be found here.
Then there’s the phrase ‘Know for yourself’ which is the name of the entry level Polaris Media product. Priced at $29.95 it’s designed to be the entry point into the business for people new to the company.
Above you have a the Scientology version and then on the right the Polaris equivalent. You don’t need me to point out the similarities in marketing slogans between the two organisations.
Finally there’s the financial link and the inescapable fact that to advance in Scientology costs money and that money has to come from somewhere.
With courses costing thousands of dollars and donations looked upon favourably (as they are with any religion) I think it’s more then fair to suggest that a percentage of every dollar raised by Polaris distributors finds its way into the church.
I’m certainly not suggesting this is perhaps a large percentage but given Polaris is being actively run by Scientologists I don’t for a second doubt that some of the money is donated to the church. At a very basic level Polaris management draw an income from the business itself, by being members of the church some of their income will be spent on Scientology courses and/or training programs.
This is where Krider’s defense of the association, real or not, based on religious defense falls apart. Krider stated:
I do take issue with people who discriminate on the subject of religion and confuse it with my business activities.
That’s like saying you won’t do business with someone who is Jewish or Muslim. Or refusing to buy from a Protestant or a Catholic. It’s just wrong.
Again this might be true if we were talking about a business selling non-religious commodities but we’re not. Polaris Media Group sell personal development products authored by member of a religion heavily invested in personal development. No matter how you dress it up or how loudly you cry religious persecution there’s just no way around that fact.
Would you hire an obese person as a fitness trainer?
Would you take public speaking advice from a stutterer?
What about financial advice from someone who was dead broke?
These are all of course negative examples and I’m not in any way trying to convince anyone that the connection between Polaris and Scientology is pre-determinately negative. I wholeheartedly agree that it’s up to each person to do their own research before deciding whether or not they are comfortable with this.
Having said that what these theoretical questions do illustrate is that as individuals when we take personal development advice, whether it be on health, confidence or financial related issues we want to believe whoever is giving us the advice has found success in this area. This success should be based on the principle of following the advice that is now being given to me.
There doesn’t need to be any further speculation on where Krider draws his own personal development strengths from as he’s admitted as such where his beliefs in this area originate from. It follows on therefore that it makes absolutely no sense to suggest that, as the author of many of Polaris’ products, Krider’s personal beliefs have not influenced in some way the personal development products offered by Polaris Media Group.
What you need to ask yourself as a Polaris distributor is are you then comfortable applying this belief set to your own life and attributing any success you experience to it.
This is something each individual can answer only for themselves.
Perfect
agreed! what more is there left to say???
Even if Polaris wasn’t a personal development company, it makes me shudder to think that any of Shane’s profits might ultimatelyend up funding Scientology.
People boycott companies for political reasons which are often completely unrelated to the actual physical products. I don’t think religions/cults fall outside of this scope.
We all need to be careful and avoid unwittingly putting money into the pockets of the kooks who are fucking up this world with their irrational dogmatic beliefs.
Who the heck is he to tell people what’s right or wrong?
If I refuse to do business with someone from a certain religion, that’s my choice, and I’ll decide whether it’s right or wrong. And I wouldn’t be trying to impose my belief on others…perfect example of Scientology behaviour right there.
If I had received that email, I’d definitely be replying telling him what he can do with his right/wrong morals.
Actually, I should probably rephrase that from “do business with someone from a certain religion” to “join a business with a boss of a certain religion”.
Obviously refusing to serve someone from a certain religion is discrimination, but I have every right to join or leave a company if I don’t like what I see, although according to Mr Krider, that would be “wrong”.
Good article Oz – sure summarizes all the recent developments with PMG.
I still feel sick to my stomach about the level of deceit and brainwashing going on. I had no idea “at cause” and “at effect” were actually scientology terms, and I started getting in the habit of using them myself! So many others still in PMG, are unknowingly getting indoctrinated too.
Let’s hope this message gets out to as many people as possible.
lifepath have had a history of bagging LLI but frankly now i know why…. LLI have been screwing poeple for a long time. At least LPU have product emphasis and no alligned to some dodgy idiot sciti crap. Norman – go hard – you will not make any money with PMG – they are all but screwed now themselves – what has gone around has come around.
Norman I think you are missing the point somewhat. If you are happy to be pushing products based on the ramblings of a Xenu loving freak, disguised as some personal development crap then go right ahead and do your thing… just let your victims know beforehand what they are going to be exposed to.
I hope you and Shane have fun on the spaceship that is polaris media group… maybe one day you will meet your intergallactical lord and master!(Beam me up Scotty!!)
Se 2 more comments i have notivced you must have been with Liberty League as you know some of the people there i am into Scienctology,So dont tell lies actually you can contact me 1 on 1 see what you say then.
i not into sciencetology,Norman
not intereted in discoverying what pills you are on – if light speed DC8’s and ray guns turn you on – up to you – but in the real world ppl dont want to know and dont trust that rubbish..have you been drinking ?
If it is he has gone to a lot of trouble to make a Facebook page! If you click on his name in his very first posting it takes you to his website http://personaldevelopmenttopearner.com/ he is part of PMG. Down the bottom is the Social Network pages he has.
Norman – just because you put your name after every post doesn’t make you any more credible than someone who doesn’t!! Are you serious when you suggest that??? Also no one is interested in LifePath so you can stop the deflection to the competition! You sound as if you just started with PMG saying that you had friends who joined when it was LLI and changed over to PMG so, with all due respect, how the hell would you know what lies have been told on here, to quote you – “There has also been some very big lies told on here from people who i would say are working for the oposition or just intrested in Bullshit”
cheers tits magee!!! (do I sound more credible now??)
Norman I don’t know if you are typing to fast and your fingers can’t keep up with your head or what but you are making no sense! Or have you been drinking, because it is 8:30pm over in NZ after all 🙂
Hi, People the stuff posted on here, some of it true some B.S. I actually dont care If Shane Krider is into Scienctology the main thing is does this business opportunity work?
For me at the moment i dont know, I have friends join this business just a few months ago when they started it was called Liberty League,and now polaris Media group.
I know this these people did not Buy Polaris they bought Liberty league, its like thinking you bought a “ford” Car and when you go to pick the car up its a “GM”. So i can understand some of the Critisisum, that’s where i draw the line.
There has also been some very big lies told on here from people who i would say are working for the oposition or just intrested in Bullshit.
There is a company who leaned on Liberty League’s “Back” they Are called Lifepath. They used to be comparing themselves with Liberty League, in fact the founder used to be in Liberty League.
So LifePath the is the same set-up as the orignal Liberty League, and a lot of Liberty League people went with Lifepath.
This LifePath was always online Talking Liberty League “down” and talking there company “up”, saying what a better deal they give against the orginal company Liberty League.
So if you are going to talk about how bad a company is make sure you tell the real truth, i have always been told to be cautious when saying stuff, True or false.
So to finish if you got a real gripe and you can prove it take them to court,and stop talking like some negative winging nob with bulshit lies and do somthing about it. Norman.
it’s going on 3 a.m. in the US… maybe Norman has been drinking all night!
nope he’s from NZ, I have checked out his site, Facebook and Twitter (which is actually his wife!!). He’s from NZ!!
Posted on TR’s new fan page:
Mr. Rush… This is what you said about Wendy Stevens, Robin & Jack Fireston…”In other words, not all departures are problems or indicative of problems. Robin Firestone, Jack Firestone and Wendy Stevens are all people who were either suspended from EMC or under probation for various problems they’d created. As such, …there is not a single person in leadership who is sad to see them go. Elena is another matter. I see her as someone who really got led astray by paying attention to people who feed her lies and mistruths. ”
Perfect , they all received a copy of your offensive comments….Now tell me about Pat, Is He also a problematic person??? or is that he, like all of US, saw the END in Polaris and also the other issues posted at Oz as you know.
November 18 at 2:02am ·
by the same poster:
Scientology is BAD STUFF…Remember what I said in July…Is all happening… I had all the truth by then… Projection is Polarais is over before the end of the Year… Sorry but there are so many people hurt and destroyed by a guy that is not a Leader, is just a mechanic!!! You have to WAKE UP… If you really believe in GOD… Run away !!! Let those other no brainers stay …
November 18 at 2:07am
I find the contradictions in this business truly amazing. There truly is no in between with them, if you don’t do as they say or do what they tell you to do or have a differing opinion they automatically attack you. I would like to know what “Know For Yourself” all means because from my first hand experience when you try to know for yourself and it isn’t in line with PMG then you are attacked. So from my understanding if you are to know for yourself it is only a one sided story with you being fed all the info that you need from PMG and no one else….. is this correct???
That seems to be the case.
I was told directly (won’t say by whom) that Michael Hamburger “left”; I was told directly by LLI (won’t say by whom) that he was terminated. They could have just taken the high road and said he left to pursue other endeavors.
I was also told that the recent “departures (no specific names were mentioned, but it was before the Firestones left) were attributed to either (a) they left because they disagreed with the company, or (2) they weren’t making any money. Either way, it was implied that they were just disgruntled.
As for the Firestones’ departure, I was told why directly (won’t say by whom) and it was not due to any suspension or probation.
Amazing.
Norman, you need to chill man. Anyone would think this is your own personal company being attacked. Chill out!!
Damn, who IS this dude???
Check my post a few up, his website is in that. Will tell you everything
I understood what you typed! Now, Norman on the other hand….
cripes!!! (sorry!)
Notice how Norman Kennedy has failed to provide specific examples of which parts are BS.
And as for his spelling…nothing to say…it speaks for itself.
I agree and he is only attacking one person on here, I have asked a few questions and had no response. Sounds to me from his earlier posts that he is quite new to PMG. Maybe he has answered me but Oz is yet to moderate some of his responses!!
I’ve just had about eight schooners down at the Bronte surf club and they were delicious. I recognise a fellow lush in our friend Norman who has gotten fired up after a few beers and is slowly coming to the realisation that his investment in LLI/PMG/$cientology is going down the drain,(hence his obvious irritation). No need to be too hard on him. We all know that nobody posting here is in the LPU scam, but he has to clutch at straws. Hey Norm, the facts are staring you in the face, you just need to rise it up from the sand.
Mr ‘Normal’ Kennedy has been with lli and now Pmg for well over 12 months and (at an educated guess) I’d say he hasn’t made diddley squat money with them.
Forgive his twaddle on here, but the poor man has to be demented from giving this sham of a scam the last year of his life only now to find out that he is basically screwed! The man has to be/is totally frustated.
How was the conference Norman? Waste of money or what?
I think I could understand that if his arguments leaned towards what you are suggesting but he seems to be arguing against those of us who see it for what it is…. i’m confused!!
You’re confused… imagine how poor Norman feels??
He says he’s not into Scientology yet his website is all about pushing Scientology (Krider) based products on people.
He says we all work for LPU yet none of us appear to have any link with any other organisation.
He quotes ‘Billy Liar’ (Nz version is obviously Billy Lier) frequently yet I haven’t seen one post from such a person!
As I said before, the man must be half demented by now, so he is more than likely clutching at straws to try and justify, to himself, that his business is still viable. Sad really.
@Norman Kennedy
I would be interested in you referencing the posts you suggest are a) lies, and b) promoting Lifepath. I’ve been following this blog since day one of the LLI story and your suggestion is quite wrong.
Billy Lier
{It was a cute concept that worked in the book, play and film (can’t say for the musical or series).}
You can rant all you want @Norman (and who is to know, or care, if you use your real name of nom-de-net?), but you are what you write.
If you think there is wrong information, rebut it with facts.
{And how is it that none of these 6-figure dudes can afford a spellchecker?}
–
Oz,
“Is Polaris being run by Scientologists a bad thing?”
For Polaris, it’s self-evidently a very bad thing. Scientology appears to be only slightly more marketable than child abuse. What we have seen is first a leak at the suggestion of a link, growing to a massive stampeed. At the same time the number and quality of pro-LLI/PMG/LP robo-script-posting has fallen.
Go talk to Pagans and Witches and you will generally find them right up front and willing to talk your leg off about it.
I wrote a while back about firms having disaster recovery plans, and how LLI optimalistically didn’t seem to have one. Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, …
This is another brilliant example of seriously crap management, with the right first response coming *far* too late. “Yes I’m a Zoroastran – SO WHAT?!”.
–
Does it matter more generally if people believe things that aren’t actually true?
Again I think it is self-evident that the best results flow from having your head exactly where your arse is at.
When a man flying a full airliner thinks he is going to Heaven and crashes it into the sea, then we have a serious issue to consider. Tolerance of religion allowed horrific and systematic child abuse to occur both here and in Ireland. Waco and Jonestown left many more dead, again including children and infants.
The Salvos do great work on the streets, but few people realise that demon possesion and exorcism are part of their beliefs, and led directly to the death of Joan Volmer in Victoria.
It does matter that “dominion” is read as licence to trash the planet, and that climate change and peak oil are *ignorable* (true or not) because we are (still/again) at End of Days and the Good Guys will be Raptured up to a white hot Heaven while the rest of us do Groundhog Day in one of Idi Armin’s five-star hotels.
Unfortunately, none of you are up for intelligent discussion on the subject matter and therefore you attract people like this. This guy is only a reflection of the comments that appear here. I mean the actual blog post is quite fair in representation but the comments are just a waste of time.
How about discussing the fact that PMG continues to exist and why?
Has the negativity grown to a point that the only way from here is up?
Your disagreements with PMG over the religious views of the founder seem to border an extremist type of mindset. These types of views always cause the exact opposite to happen.
I am calling it on this comment– Just like the stock market, there is so much negativity about PMG already priced in at this point that 6 months from now – (summer of 2010) they will double or triple in size.
Maybe I should join this company now, probably the best time to do so.
Unless the quality of the comments, arguments and discussions increases, you are only providing the fertilizer for them to grow even bigger.
Yep.. sounds good.. lets not make any more comments and they might eventually go away.(now that’d be funny!!)
Whats a forum without comments???
A blank page.
Why did Liberty League cease to exist? Because of comments (good and bad) here and on other forums.
PMG are dead in the water, thanks mainly to all the comments from ordinary everyday people on these pages.
I for one can not, in all fairness, get my head around the fact that Scientologists are pretending to be a religious group and are actually getting away with it.. Xenu my arse!
Just wanting to share and experience about Lavenia – in Acapulo when walking to the event in the morning with a bunch of poeple – someone ran past and stopped to a walking pace a little ahead of the group. It was John Lavenia – not wanting to talk to anyone obviously. This is the guy who wrote the book about “Integrity”. How are those leadership skill!
Re ;- Racheal Oliver’s mother – on the video that was on the old LLI site – Oliver herself talks abotu her mother being an alcoholic and about not having had contact with her for a long time. I wont what impact having an alcoholic mother had on her?
This REEKS of an EMC member.
Is that what you are telling all of your poor unsuspecting schmucks now?
In the past it was:
“You have to get in and get your conference ticket NOW NOW NOW!! So you can make more money!! I am only saying this for YOU!!!”
or
“You have to step up NOW!!! People respond to leaders!!! So yeah….buy your conference ticket!! I’m saying this for YOU!!!”
or
“I earned 200k in the last year!!! YOu have to buy your conference ticket NOW so you can do the same!! I’m saying this for YOU!!!”
Matey…we have woken up to your various methods to get people in.
Shame “Norman” has already signed up though- that guy has “sucker” written right across his forehead. LOL
No Norman, it doesn’t.
Neeeeext!!! LOL
Me not like Scientology either.
LOL!!!!
Please by all means start us off in some intelligent discussions………
doesnt this “the main thing” sound just like one of Krider pet phrases?
iwonder – you are toooo funny!!!!
Unfortunately, when one has limited abiity to see things for what they really are, one will resort to repeating what they have heard. Parrot fashion.
Poor Norman.
@Oz… Polaris touts that it is all about positive media and releasing it into the world. Okay, I’m all for that. But produce some of your OWN. Which brings me to something very interesting…
At the announcement in LA, we were shown a snippet of a documentary about a comedian who takes his comedy from the comedy clubs to the streets and the halfway houses, etc… very inspiring young man… and funny, too. We were told that PMG “produced” the documentary and to look for more of this type of positive media in the future. This documentary has yet to be released (sometime in 2010)… PMG’ers are posting the documentary’s website link on Facebook to drive people to it as a PMG product.
I went to the website… go there and view the trailer (www.comedytheroadlesstraveled.com). I see no reference to Polaris Media Group anywhere. If you want to host the movie, you have to fill out a form. If you want to SEE the movie, you are requested to fill out a form advising how many people you will be bringing with you (release dates and locations to be announced). They have a support center with an address and phone number in Cerritos, California, should you have problems purchasing tickets or registering your “church” for the movie(?)… The only link to Polaris seems to be that I see PMG’ers comments in the Fan Comments section.
You can follow the comedian himself (Michael Jr.) on Facebook and Twitter. Wonder if he is a Scientologist???
A search reveals that the comedian owns the domain name. Again, there is no mention of PMG being responsible for producing this documentary… though they proclaim they did and are promoting it heavily.
Things that continue to make you go hmmmmm……..
@ nameless
I think he is a Christain.
http://www.funny-business.com/index.cfm/Comedians/Christian/86/Michael_Jr./Details
My question would be- does HE know that he is now linked to Scientology?
Also- on his website, there is absolutely NO mention of the program Polaris are on about…
http://www.michaeljr.com/behindthemic/behindthemic.php
@Michael… thanks for providing a website on Scientology. I now see another connection. In LLI, we were taught the Be, Do, Have principle. In recent calls, I have noticed the shift to a new term… “beingness”, obviously a Sciti term. How about “doingness”, Michael? Is that one also? Tell me we were not being indoctrinated….
I just wish I had found this forum before I wasted my money on going to LA…
beingness: the assumption or choosing of a category of identity. Beingness is assumed by oneself or given to oneself or is attained. Examples of beingness would be one’s own name, one’s profession, one’s physical characteristics, one’s role in a game-each and all of these could be called one’s beingness. See also conditions of existence.
direct from http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/dictionary.htm#B
cause: could be defined as emanation (something coming forth from a source). It could be defined also, for purposes of communication, as source-point. See also communication.
check this one out
Homo Sapiens: A mest body. When made clear it is called Homo Novis
So they become a different species – what morons!!
@Truthbeknown
I believe the main reason for this is people living on their financial reserves. Some of these people have been with the company a while now and I imagine have saved up enough to get through what they believe is a rough patch.
How long this will last is anyone’s guess.
Ok I’ve cleaned up the comments that weren’t contributing anything to the discussion so hopefully it doesn’t read like a bit of a trainwreck now.
I have no idea who Billy liar is so unless someone explains that I’m just going to delete any one line comments going on about him. It sounds like a generic term old guys in cardigans might have used in the 1800s to namecall liars?
(edit: Just read Roly’s explanation… 1956 hey, seems I wasn’t too far off with the cardigan comment)
Also on the Pat/Tony Rush thing, I don’t believe this to be the case. I’m not 100% sure but I believe this is Pat’s Polaris page – http://freedomkiwis.unifiedwealthsolutions.com/
Also I’ve sent an email to the person claiming to be Rachel Oliver’s mother. I have no way of verifying the information posted but if the person is in fact Oliver’s mother then she certainly deserves to have her say.
Unfortunately whoever it is has posted under different email addresses which has made me a bit suspicious. I’m not saying it’s not Oliver’s mother but just that I think for such a big claim and I feel to be fair to Rachel, I should be reasonably sure that the person claiming to be her mother actually is her mother before permitting further contribution from her.
I’ve temporarily unapproved the two comments left till I get a reply back from her.
If anyone’s keen to see some Polaris deception in the making, check out twitter and do a search for ‘Polaris Media Group’.
Recently the company account has started twittering misleading comments in this format:
They’re tacking ‘via Polaris Media Group’ on the end of a whole bunch of ‘inspirational’ type news stories. Obviously the idea is to trick people into thinking those people did the things they did “via Polaris Media Group”. There’s a recent whole bunch of them.
If that’s not blatant misrepresentation I don’t know what is.
I matters not one wit a persons religion and discrimination on the basis of it is also illegal.
To object to the abuses that are currently occurring in the church is quite correct and we strongly voiced about these abuses long before anyone took any notice. But it is a separate issue to the basic tenets which are sensible and valid. To generalize and say, It is all bad over there, is simply a mark or ignorance by people who cannot discriminate. like saying all women are bad or all Jews are bad. Now where have i heard that one before?
No it isn’t. Women or being a Jew (race) isn’t a religion. The Godwin’s Law reference you are making was related to the race, not the religion Judaism.
More accurately it’s like Toyota saying their cars run on kisses and hugs and me saying they are full of crap.
Just thought I’d add that for those without (or lost) access to the LLI/PMG ning forum, it has been dead quiet ever since the Scientology announcement…so nothing to report there.
add to that, no uploaded recorded calls in the backoffice since the announcement too.
When they made the movie it must have been the 60’s ’cause Billy had a cheap stove-pipe suit and the girls were all bouffant and twinsets. Even by then cardigans were already geeky on guys (but still okay on girls), Cliff and the Shadows ‘Summer Holiday’ must’ve been the last cardigan gasp.
Billy was a young fella who was in his first, clerical and likely dead-end, job out of school who had a bad dose of the Walter Mitty’s – a compulsive and kamikaze liar, e.g. late for work, his aunt has a leg amputated. So his life gets very complicated.
“Billy Liar” is a curious allusion since the work is not that well known here.
As a contrast there was a very funny play not long after based on the counter idea of a husband who had to tell the absolute truth for 24 hours.
–
[QUOTE]
@Michael
But it is a separate issue to the basic tenets which are sensible and valid.
[/QUOTE]
An invisable friend and magic book, a belief in miracles that are by definition “impossible” and for which there is no evidence, is “sensible and valid”?
This is a use of the word “sensible” with which I am not familiar.
My generalisations are based on a fairly wide experience of various kinds of theists, and I’d like to hear about the other side that justifies featherbedding delicate sensibilities.
Theists even have a word for jamming their ideas up the noses of non-believers – prozletising.
@Phife
There are recorded calls in the Polaris back office, but no longer in the LLI back office.
There have been no new calls uploaded since the 25th when Krider made his Scientology admission.
There’s like a dozen calls a day listed on the schedule, but nothing uploaded. Are people asking too many questions or have they dropped off?
Someone I know who knows the inner workings of PMG suggested RT is in fact Tony Rush – attempting to come clean about it all? What do you think. Is it really you Tony – if it is I will forgive you for being an insulting arrogant idiot yank…..?
Oops… all of a sudden 3 new calls in the back office from the 26th
Saturdays Team down under call
http://bit.ly/7CQizO
Mondays call
http://bit.ly/74UA9J
Sorry! That would have been an interesting twist though. I’m curious as to why someone would suspect that other than our intials are reversed which I just noticed and is a total coincidence. I don’t have access to the calls or websites so now I’m curious, has Tony dropped out of sight too?
@also the truth, did your PMG contact confirm the timeline too?
Signed,
MOST DEFINITELY NOT TONY RUSH
Doesn’t surprise me at all about this. Every time something is mentioned on here about them it seems to change or be deleted straight away. They are absolutely reading this!!
Tony Rush (TR or RT backwards) maybe it is maybe it isn’t, interesting though I must say!!
I would just like to say a big hello to the EMC reading this.
How you all doin’ today? Good?
@RT I knew you weren’t Tony Rush because you display empathy and consideration. Tony Rush was born without these/had them surgically removed.
@RT – pretty much on time line . Your date of Jan08 – is thatb right – or was it Jan09?
This just in… emails received announcing the Lavenias’ and Gene Braxton’s resignations from PMG to pursue their respective entrepreneurial endeavors!
Apparently Tony Rush has left also!! How true this is I don’t know but I do find it amusing!
If in fact they resigned it will make me sick – those filthy rats Lavenia & Braxton deserve to go down with the ship. THEY ARE DISGUSTING Standing in front of thousands of people at SCS (stuffing dirty dollars left, right and centre into their pockets)announcing grandfathering and knowing about the scientology connection, they do not deserve any respect. Hopefully they keep their entrepreneurial endeavors AWAY from OZ & NZ
I am excited!!
They indeed, are scum- but the fact that this is proof of another step in them gong under brings a smile to my face.
Not to mention that this may well bite them in the behind when it comes to future ventures…
But will save the champagne for when I see the actual email…
Is anybody here entering into any class action lawsuits against PMG? If so, could you please let me know? I’m not sure if I want to deal with the hassle, but know so many people who are really suffering after being told a pack of lies by the ‘leaders’ and would appreciate receiving even a portion of their money back!
Shannon posted this link on her twitter account. It says that she and John gave their resignation to Polaris.
http://www.aweber.com/b/bK8w
To give people out there an idea of the lengths that these Polarisites will go to, here in an excerpt from a forum question in the PMG group:
“Has anyone signed anyone up in Ethiopia, or sold any products in this country? We are wanting advice on issues with the Ethiopian Government regulations on sending money out of their country and import/export limitations (if you have or haven’t come across this). Any advice would be great please, as we have a very interested prospect. N*** & A****”
Ethiopia?
You would think that people there would have more interest in oh…i dont know….EATING!!!
@also the truth: jan08
As far as the Lavenias, Braxton and Rush leaving I have to say I’m suspicious. If they were to come out and publicly condemn the backroom dealings at Polaris Media Group and denounce their Scientology affiliations I would believe they had truly cut ties and were moving on. However, leaving to “pursue other entrepreneurial endeavours” (if that’s what their email stated) makes me think they’re just shutting down PMG and the whole lot of them will go underground and form another entity entirely and attempt to keep their involvement a secret. They’re smart enough marketers to know the bad publicity and the Scientology connection has killed Polaris Media Group. Without a frank communication from them as to what these other “entrepreneurial endeavours” are I will continue to suspect they’re just busy reinventing Polaris Media Group and I sincerely doubt they’ll name it “Polaris Media Group II”. I’d hold off on popping any champagne corks just yet. If anyone has that email could you please post it?
Yes, I would like to see it as well.
here is the email from the Lavenias….
Hello,
As your team leaders, we have been proud to serve you and the Liberty League/Polaris Media Group Community for the past 7.5 years. It has been our honor to help you achieve greater levels of success and to provide an example of what is possible with integrity, focus and inspiration. We thank you for the outpouring of love, respect and admiration we have received during this time.
Today, we presented our resignation to Polaris Media Group. Our goal is to help the greatest number of people to achieve success and experience prosperity in their lives. It is time for us to move on. We have spent many years as marketers and company developers. We LOVE this industry and want to expand our reach beyond just Polaris Media Group.
Our departure allows for us to help many others in Network Marketing by sharing what we know. Most importantly though, we will be able to do that with traits that many profess to have but unfortunately lack (I trust you’ll agree with me on this one)… Experience, Longevity, and Financial Results!
To eliminate any false data or rumors, we are not joining another company in this industry. We have completed our time as marketers and to join another company would simply be a lateral move. We are expanding our focus on John Lavenia events, MarketEzee Technologies and additional ventures with our business partners.
You can count on us to bring you the best resources, training and education available. You can sign up for our newsletter at http://www.ShannonLavenia.com and follow John at http://www.JohnLavenia.com.
We look forward to our ongoing friendships and to hearing about your future successes. For questions about your team leaders, please call the corporate office at 480.xxx.xxxx. (number removed by me)
With great respect,
John and Shannon Lavenia
(name and address removed)
copied and pasted from actual email received….
from Gene Braxton’s email (notice it reads almost verbatim as the Lavenias’ email)….
Hello,
I would like to inform you that I have resigned from my position as Corporate Liaison and Distributor for the Polaris Media Group agency.
Thank you for the professional and personal development that you and this company have provided me over the last 6.5 yrs. I have enjoyed working with all of you and appreciate the support you have given me during my tenure with the company.
It is time now for me to move on as an entrepreneur. I have spent many years as a marketer and company developer. I LOVE this industry and want to expand my reach beyond just PMG. My departure allows for me to help many others in Network Marketing by sharing what I know. Most importantly though, I will be able to do that with a trait that many profess to have but unfortunately lack (I trust you’ll agree with me on this one)… Experience, Longevity, and Financial Results!
To dispel any rumors and or false data that may come as a result of my decision, let me be clear: No, I am not going to another company, I have done all I can do in this industry as a marketer. Switching companies would be a lateral move for me. Lastly, I have nothing but wonderful regards for PMG, Shane, its leadership, corporate, and the field.
I will keep you posted as to my next chapter as an industry trainer. Please know that my door is always open for support.
I wish you and the company all the best.
Much Love
Gene Braxton
my post of the Lavenias’ email is awaiting moderation by OZ
Thankyou “nameless”
I am …speechless…and happy…and angry…
Can you have that many emotions at once??
Wow – new developments are occurring daily. It sure is hard to keep up!
yep…. you’ve just been “POLARIS’D”
I feel so violoated. LOL
so violated that I cannot spell anymore, obviously.
Norman Kennedy? You still there champ?
Was just thinking the same thing!! Oh and Pat to…….
this email from Braxton is suprisingly like the one from Lavenia . They are regrouping and will work together and resurface .
Too much champers perhaps??
Can’t wait to see how Mr Rush will fob these resignations off .. his favourite seems to be that they were in violation of the company code of conduct!!!! Pot/kettle/black…
Wow! I have not been tracking this site for a few months, and in a curious moment, logged on. There is a part of me that is overjoyed about PMG, that it is heading into a downward spiral quickly. A sadness for my own mistake of ever having joined when it was LLI and that I am paying off the credit card debt from the costly decision. I recognize my own greed within, thinking that I could have made 6 figures in my first year without ever having done so before, and working only 20-25 hours per week (as quoted from the website), no selling, blah, blah, blah. The difference, however, that I am proud of, is that I walked away before being the conduit to any more people losing thousands of dollars that they probably could not have afforded to lose in the first place. The 4 people that I did sign up…one couple, it put them into tougher times without much left in their savings and now are doing their best each day. The others, they are fortunately doing well with other endeavors. Not one of them stayed on after learning more about what this business is about, how it is really just about enrolling financially desperate people into buying the conferences which is where the big money is made, and under the pretense that it is in the name of personal and financial freedom.
I know that we make our own choices in life…and I am so grateful that this site is here for those who are doing their research.
Pushed the send button too quickly!
If you look on PMG fan page on Facebook, there are no admins left for the site. It appears that many people have removed themselves from that fan page as well.
You sound like you have Rachel Olivers problem!!
Welcome back.. I though you’d defected to another blog
http://en-gb.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQ3mYJzvgde5OWPGHj06wcawAAAAn7NBQurmtXbrKvV5D8UQDF&size=normal
Looks like Tony has finally met Xenu!!
Hey guys I haven’t had internet access for the last day and a half or so. Looks like I’ve got some massive catching up to do, my email inbox is about to explode.
Thanks for all the head ups and bear with me while I catch up!
@Lynn… the admins are still running another Polaris Fan Page, you have to join though. You’re right, the old Polaris page has no admins left.
@iwonder… I feel violated, too.
Now off to work here in the States…
Did Tony Rush resign as well? I haven’t seen any news on this. On Tony’s ning site, there is nothing new. The last entry on the fourm page was dated nov.20. I’m curious to see how all this is going to turn out.
Tony Rush was terminated due to “multiple compliance issues” after being on EMC probation.
@IWonder
From violated to vindicated, just like that.
Ahhh, LLI … it feels so good when you wake up.
@Lynn
Good on you.
But don’t give up, just get realistic. There are many businesses that make a reliable living and can be enjoyable to establish and build. Just don’t expect huge instant rewards for no input.
This from the “big Arse” herself this morning –
“Gene, Tony, John and I have resigned our positions with Polaris to pursue our passions of training and educ ation. We are not affiliating ourselves with any other network marketing or direct sales company. There will be no cross-recruiting or attempts to recruit you or your associates to any other opportunity. Nor do we advise you to look anywhere else but the opportunity you have chosen to call home. If anyone says anything to the contrary or attempts to use our resignation as an attempt to recruit you, please disregard this and notify us at pmgnorthstar@gmail.com so we can handle this false information immediately. We honor and protect your decision to work with the company of your choosing, without distraction or disruption.”
They must think they are superior and everyone else, not sciti, are stupid – they are simply repositioning themselves in the same biz !!!
Apparently it was announced on the Millionaire Mindset call which as of this week is now replacing the Black belt Marketing Call John use to do. Someone has posted it on the other thread on here
SJ
December 1st, 2009 at 4:35 pm (Quote)
The announcement that the Lavenias, Tony Rush and Gene Braxton left was made on the “Millionaire Mindset” call, now hosted by Rachel Oliver and Lisa Molina — it was formerly known as the Black Belt Marketing Call, once hosted by John Lavenia.
Muse: What is the REAL upside of being caught up in LLI/PMG/Lifepath/etc?
(tl;dr – it’s great when you stop beating yourself up.)
The downside of course is that you feel like a real dill that you were sucked in, and can’t understand *yourself* swallowing what you did, ignoring those niggling too-good-to-be-true doubts that turned out to be right.
Well apart from being ripped off, you have been well and truly SPUN (as we see a stream of koolaid drinkers such as @Harold still spinning here).
This mind spin aspect of LLI is straight out of the “How to Run a Cult Handbook” and common to most New Age cults. Anyone who reads up on the Hari Krisnas, Rajneesh or Scientology (just for example) will recognise the general process of targeting selected susceptable individuals and subjecting them to initial “love bombing”, “group hugs” and “warm fuzzies”, and also the cold exclusion caused by any questioning – “just ACCEPT” (the load of dingo’s kidneys brain worm I’m trying to slip past your critical faculties).
If this is ringing bells it’s because it’s basically how all these mind-benders work – and they are NOT doing it in YOUR interest chum; they are a threat to your *sanity* as well as you bank balance.
Your brain has been played with and manipulated in a similar way to an unexpected dose of LSD, and it’s going to take a while to recover.
Oh, and IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT (well, maybe just a little bit, but…)
YOU WERE TARGETED, passed through a filtering process to find the susceptable. It was a carefully refined and controlled process were prospects were groomed, where their unrealistic return expectations and lack of real business experience or acumen could be played upon and up-sold to “full boat” (and again that echo of the Rajneesh “Golden Aeroplanes” pyramid scam).
And in some cases (and this is getting close to the bone I’m afraid) they are looking for people who feel UNLOVED, in need of reinforcement. This is their magic doorway; they offer you unconditional love and acceptance without reserve, PROVIDED you just give yourself up to them. For some reason youngish women, perhaps returning to the workforce after a couple of kids, appear to be over-represented in LLI, as they are in cults.
–
But if there is one thing that stands out from the posts in these threads it’s that the REAL moment of Personal Growth is when you wake up and realise that you have been sold a pup. Catching up with the threads it’s sometimes like watching a garden bursting into flower after a cold winter.
Those of you who are going to go on from this and run your own businesses have been presented with some very valuable lessons in what NOT to do, and NOW, post-partum, is when you should be pondering them and really learning something real.
Risk = Return; Return = Risk. The bigger the potential return, the bigger the potential risk. In business that’s gravity – it sucks, but you can’t ignore it. What has been exposed is that for all the anti-gravity blather LLI followed this rule too; a 10% chance of making six figures, and a 90% chance of a five-figure debt. While that’s better than Lotto it’s about the same order as trying to make a living out of playing the pokies or following the horses.
For all the money and effort many have put in they could have (e.g.) bought a small coffee shop or bistro and built it up with *four times the chance* of making a nice living and overall profit on-selling after 3-5 years.
Those of you who turned away from LLI for *ethical* reasons, who didn’t like what you were doing to your clients/friends/family, should rejoice that when the rubber hit the road your upbringing was vindicated – you are ethical where it gets difficult and really matters. This is something to be really proud of, and maintain. All the crap about negativity is just sour grapes; you are real winners out of this fiasco.
–
Here’s a radical idea – there is an *optimum* level of wealth; enough so you can do what you want, but not so much that managing/protecting it becomes an occupation in itself – it’s the *means*, not the *end*.
There are many kinds of owner run business that will make you a living and give you satisfaction. The thing to remember is that you can’t optimise for two variables at once, and more money does not automatically mean more satisfaction.
Pick something everybody needs all the time like water, food, soap, etc; combine this with something you are already good at; be prepared to do long menial hours unrewarded for two or three years; and if you ***make your client’s problems your own***; always give full measure; admit errors and stand by your skills and products; then there is a very good chance that you will prosper just on word-of-mouth.
There is a saying that you can have it cheap, quick, or good, but you can’t have all three. You can get rich quick by robbing banks. You can get rich slowly by building up a business over years.
{Free business idea: people are always dumping household items on the roadside. There is clearly a basis for a scavanging/recycling/referbish/op-shop/tip-shop business here to compete with Councils. (1% of the gross will be fine)}
{A pair of very wet Crimson Rosellas happily scarfing the wattle seed pods during the soaking. Creek’s full for the first time in … um, several years anyway. Spurwing Plover’s liked it. And I’ve got a UFO, speckled b&w with yellow wing flashes and a fluffy face. tba}
@Roly – Man what you been smokin ?
If only you could bottle it … now that’d be a good business .. “Roly’s Magic in a bottle”
In fairness.. a wise post from the legend. Onya Roly!
Excellent post Roly!
The 2IC of Scientology will be on Sunrise (Seven) shortly this morning.
xenu junior?
“Letters/Emails to Xenophon were unsigned”
“Hubbard was one of the greatest humanitarians ever known on earth”