Cloud 2×2 Review: $125 matrix entry pyramid scheme
There is no information on the Cloud 2×2 website indicating who owns or runs the business.
The Cloud 2×2 company domain (‘cloud2x2.com’) was registered on the 7th June, 2012 with the domain registration information set to private.
In Cloud 2×2 training videos however, Todd Hirsch is named as a co-owner and co-creator of the company. No other co-owners or co-creators are named.
Todd Hirsch was a member of the recently stopped $600 million Ponzi scheme Zeek Rewards and is also a self-described “top earner” member of Bidify. Hirsch currently claims to be the “#4 top earning” affiliate in Bidify.
Bidify, a penny auction (Bidsson) attached to an MLM business opportunity had a similar Ponzi points compensation plan to Zeek, which was immediately changed following SEC action against Zeek Rewards.
Hirsch (photo right) recently claimed in a video that he was involved in promoting Zeek Rewards and recruiting new investors knowing full well it was a Ponzi scheme.
Hirsch also recently claimed on Troy Dooly’s MLMHelpdesk that he is a member of the suspected Ponzi investment scheme, ‘Banners Broker’.
Describing himself as a “program jumper” on his blog, Hirsch claims he’s
in about seven different programs at this time and (that he’s) joined and been apart of maybe over 50+ programs since (he) started in online marketing in early 2010.
In non-official company marketing material, I came across Cloud 2×2 members mentioning ‘Mike Lavoie’ as being the other co-founder and owner of the company.
Back in 2010 Lavoie previously launched “Revolutionary Matrix”, a now defunct 2×2 matrix recruitment dependent MLM opportunity.
In 2011 Lavoie launched a similar and also now defunct matrix opportunity called “Social Power Network” (the Social Power Network domain now redirects to something called “ricishares”).
Averaging the launch of one matrix based opportunity a year, Cloud 2×2 appears to be Lavoie’s 2012 MLM matrix company attempt.
Read on for a full review of the Cloud 2×2 MLM opportunity.
The Cloud 2×2 Product Line
Cloud 2×2 has no retailable products and services. Rather prospective members are only able to purchase membership to the company, which Cloud 2×2 refer to as “e-pins”.
Bundled with each Cloud 2×2 membership is
- ‘xSky’ email marketing suite
- advertising credits (where these credits are redeemable is not specified)
- access to a cloud-based data backup service
None of these products or services are available for purchase via Cloud 2×2 members at a retail level.
The Cloud 2×2 Compensation Plan
Cloud 2×2 use a 2×2 reverse matrix system to pay out commissions to their members.
A 2×2 reverse matrix has seven member positions with new members to the matrix being fed into the bottom:
The basic idea is that when the matrix fills, the person at the top (indicated “you” in the matrix illustration above) earns a commission and the matrix splits. Effectively the two member positions on level 2 of the matrix form the level 1 of two new matrices.
This clears the bottom level of the matrix with the members still remaining in the two new matrices then seeking to recruit new members to fill the bottom levels again.
Under this matrix structure there are five levels of matrices in Cloud 2×2. Along with their respective payouts they are as follows:
- 1st Matrix = an e-pin and entry into 2nd Matrix
- 2nd Matrix = $500, an e-pin and entry into 3rd Matrix
- 3rd Matrix = $1000, an e-pin and entry into 4th Matrix
- 4th Matrix = $2000, an e-pin and entry into 5th Matrix
- 5th Matrix = $7000, an e-pin and re-entry into 5th Matrix
In order to qualify for commissions on the 1st and 2nd matrix, Cloud 2×2 members must personally recruit at least one new member into the matrix before it fills. Failure to do so I believe results in re-entry into the same level matrix with no commissions being paid out (e-pins, cash or otherwise).
Note that an “e-pin” is an entry ticket into the 1st Matrix, however it’s not bound to the member it is assigned to. Whilst a member can use the e-pin they are assigned to personally re-enter the 1st Matrix, they can also sell or give it to another person to use.
Cloud 2×2 also offers a recruitment commission of $25 per new member signed up and a 10% matching cycle bonus on these members (you earn 10% of the matrix commissions paid out to anyone you personally recruit).
Joining Cloud 2×2
Membership (an e-pin for matrix entry) to cloud 2×2 is $125 with a $10 admin fee.
Cloud 2×2 claim that they’re members are ‘paying for Software & Advertising‘ however it is impossible to actually purchase software and advertising directly from Cloud 2×2 or its members.
This is evidenced by the company’s refund policy, which states:
NO REFUND can be given because that would leave a dead spot in someone’s board with no one inviting.
If members were indeed purchasing software and advertising, refunds would be wholly possible on return of said software (or cancellation of a license key) and unused advertising credits.
Rather the only thing purchasable in Cloud 2×2 are membership positions which, when analysing the compensation plan, amount to nothing more than $125 buy-in matrix positions.
“E-pins” not being attached to members simply means they can be used as a marketing tool to rope new members into the scheme, however this is problematic in that they themselves haven’t contributed any money to the scheme (Cloud 2×2 has no revenue source other than members buying matrix positions).
To get around this the company requires members to recruit at least one new member on the first and second matrices, which I believe have to be paid positions and can’t simply be e-pin giveaways.
Note that this recruited member must cycle the first and second matrices before the recruiting members is able to cycle into the third matrix (this can happen simultaenously if the recruited member is in a second level matrix with their recruiter and the matrix cycles).
Thus each member entering the scheme, whether they pay for their initial entry or not has the requirement of bringing in at least one new member into the scheme, to cover the cost of their initial e-pin payout upon cycling the 1st matrix.
Sustainability wise this is nothing more than a Pyramid scheme that is dependent on new members. E-pins will sustain the scheme but ultimately Cloud 2×2 members are still going to find themselves running out of new people to recruit and fill up the 1st level Matrices with.
Once those matrices stall the effect trickles up and the scheme collapses. The giving away of e-pins will stall this process but not for long, as e-pin entry members still have to personally recruit to advance in the compensation plan.
With no retailable products or services being sold by members, Cloud 2×2 winds up being nothing more than a shallow 2×2 matrix Pyramid scheme that like all pyramid schemes, will fail once members run out of new people to recruit.
Additionally all Cloud 2×2 members must consent to receiving spam from the company and its members:
By signing up for the Cloud2X2 program, Member is opting-in to receive other special offer emails fromCloud2X2 (sic) and its Cloud2X2 members.
Cloud 2×2 doesn’t elaborate on what this spam is, but given the email marketing product bundled with membership and non-specification of how members use their supplied advertising credits, I suspect members can redeem their credits to
spam market to the existing Cloud 2×2 memberbase.
Prospective members would do well to take Cloud 2×2 founder Todd Hirsch’s own advice, as published on his personal blog:
There are a lot of programs that do not last very long. They are called a “flash in the pan”.
I do not recommend joining those types of programs.
Wise words indeed.
Ironic how he has police sirens on his site.
The intro video for Cloud 2×2 was narrated by Wendy Slafka aka angelrose of the now defunct cash gifting program “Connecting Us All” (which was just a rehash of the defunct “Elite Activity”).
There really isn’t much difference between cash gifting and these stupid little cycling deals, hell they can be prosecuted with the same sets of laws.
Todd Hirsch has been around the industry for a long time and in the process has managed to con 1,000’s of people as well as steal downlines for his own profit.
BEWARE of this con artist! He is a perfect example of what gives this MLM industry a bad name. Go push a broom and clean some toilet bowls Toad, you would do the world a favour by doing so!
First of all, get your information right. 1. Members joining Cloud do not “get an epin to join”, ONLY another member of cloud that has completed a cycle is rewarded an epin, it is then their choice to bring in a new member via an epin.
2. The product you receive for joining Cloud2x2 is xsky software, that is a product sold through click bank, that Paypal honors. Along with xsky software, members also receive many other valuable products for marketing etc.
Cloud was designed for average marketers/newbies to finally see a return. To address another comment, that is NOT Wendy Slafka narrating the video on Cloud 2×2, you folks need to get your information accurate BEFORE you try to slam dunk a great opportunity that is designed to help people.
Todd Hirsch has a heart of gold and has created a fantastic opportunity to back his own mantra up with. I for one praise Todd for his unselfish efforts to actually do something positive for the Industry, its about time!!
First off, in response to the person who says the intro video is narrated by myself, this is totally false. I have never narrated anything on the Cloud 2 x2 site although I have a team build in the program and am just a member like anyone else who has joined.
There are several false statements in the article.
Only one referral is required to advance in the company. NOT TWO. Your only referral must follow you on the gold board to cycle on that board which is the only referral you need.
I believe the xsky software is a product which costs $27/month on Clickbank and you do receive it as part of membership in Cloud. It is true you cannot retail or sell it but it is a product.
I have no opinion really on Todd as I have not ever been involved with him or any of his other programs. I happened upon this and thought it was a good business venture. He does claim to have the approval of the Ga. state attorney general.
Please get your facts right about a person before you go commenting on them.
AGAIN, I am not the narrator on this video on the site..
Also about CUA, I was just a member of that program and lost money in it. So I don’t know what you are talking about in associating me with the administration on it. Many others were members of it also. Much to some regret on my part.
We have all been members of programs that were not good investments.
Sure they do. They just have to use it themselves first time around.
e-pin = matrix entry.
What you receive when you join Cloud 2×2 is irrelevant. All that matters for the purpose of analysis is that you are paying to join. Or more specifically, purchasing matrix entry.
people who like to participate in pyramid schemes with no retailable products or retail customers.
is running a pyramid scheme.
Your perogative. Although given the circumstances and inevitable fact that pyramid schemes always leave someone left holding the bag, perhaps a bit misguided.
Let me guess though, you got in early. F’em right?
Only one referral is required to advance in the company. NOT TWO. Your only referral must follow you on the gold board to cycle on that board which is the only referral you need.
The company compensation plan states
They don’t state anything about the same recruit beng re-useable, I read it as one direct signup on matrices #1 and #2.
Fair enough call though and I’ll update the article, although Cloud 2×2 might want to clarify things in their comp plan explanation as it’s kinda erroneous as it stands.
Not a retailable product as far as Cloud 2×2 as an income opportunity goes. Thus leaving membership the only thing able to be purchased and, when recruitment commissions are taken into consideration, means Cloud 2×2 is using a pyramid scheme business model.
Given that AG’s do not make a practice of recommending companies, if what you say is true then Hirsch is running around telling porky pies.
You don’t seem to have done any due diligence upon arriving at the conclusion Cloud 2×2 is a “good business”.
Cloud 2×2 said: “Cloud was designed for average marketers/newbies to finally see a return”.
I say this sums it up that the average marketer never earn anything worth bragging about except perhaps a few dollars here and there. The industry is flawed and bound to fail if it requires you to recruit new affiliates.
The only one who might walk away with some money in his pockets will be Todd laughing his way to the bank.
I would like to add the next investigation, if it helps you to get more information:
The web site was made using a Joomla! CMS template called yootheme and looking at the source code.
However, the registration form uses a different web site, and in the source code in such page it says at the end: “Powered By MLM Developers India”.
This could be made by this company: gcoupon.com/view/employee/3237/Mr_Mahendra_Maheshwari.html
I went to the root of this other page for the registration: cloud2x2.com/business/
It shows a login for an administration page. I also look at the source code for the website and it says in the title: User Login – joshiinstitute.com
I didn’t find any connection between those companies, probably it was a copy-paste of a code, because you can find the same registration page at joshiinstitute.com/business/
This was very simple to get in this login form, just go to: cloud2x2.com/business/login_check.php
It shows the Cloud2x2 dashboard for a guy named Shawn Roberts in the Gold level, do you see the same?
But it didn’t happen the same for joshiinstitute.com/business/login_check.php
Do you want to know how many users cloud 2×2 has?
I looked again at the source code after login, and I noticed that the profile picture is stored at a folder in the website, so I went to that folder in my browser and it shows all the profile pictures, some of them are repeated, probably they keep previous pictures after changing it and there might be some users that dont use profile picture. So more or less 99 users.
You can check this out at cloud2x2.com/business/profile_images/
Yes, same user page for me, Shawn Roberts.
I also tried what appeared to be “menus” to the left, but all they did was to change the direction of the arrows? The “products” led to a products page (mostly training material).
I’m not a web-designer / programmer, but it appeared to be alot of temporary programming work in the parts I visited.
It didn’t appear to be very active, so I won’t spend much time checking it. It has launched, attracted a few users, “and that was that”.
Haha interesting talk about a shoestring budget with terrible security to boot.
Checking Google revealed that there was a Christopher Shawn Roberts (username ShawnRoberts) in Zeek
Which seems to be this guy on Myspace:
Wow.. we have MLM haters and hackers on this thread….
First of all… Cloud2x2 has paid out over $200,000 to the members.. We have a nice size membership base.
People more than get their money worth even if they never cycle with the best marketing software that works with Skype for internet marketers. xSky Software! A REAL PRODUCT!
You forgot to mention also that we pay a $25 fast start bonus for every sign up someone gets. Cloud2x2 is paying out the highest % of any program like it ever made.
Have a wonderful day and stay positive =)
Pyramid schemes aren’t MLM. Hacking…?
But not sold at a retail level through the scheme, so also irrelevant. All that’s sold through Cloud 2×2 are matrix positions.
No I covered that, that’s what makes it a pyramid scheme.
LMAO at all of you.. Apparently in the MMO niche, and wasting time here bitching about a program your not even going to join.
I am not here to argue the fine point details on whether Cloud2x2 is an MLM, a Pyramid, or what it exactly is. Almost EVERY corporation is a pyramid scheme, the guy at the top gets paid the most because he owns it.
They do offer products in the back-office, and I got a code for xSky and am using it for free (because of my membership in Cloud)?? They have a few other things, including training. Training is something you can package up and sell as an individual product or as a service… So adding even just training, removes the technical “pyramid/ponzi” scheme as they do give you a product or good.
On top of that, Neither Todd nor Mike live in the United States. The USA laws aren’t the only laws of the Internet! The laws that govern them are different from yours. So if it is legal where they reside, then tough shit and STFU!
Here is the deal with the system in regards to design, anything broken, and security.
I did not create or design Cloud2x2, however I am a programmer and have been hired on to clean things up and fix stuff needing to be done for them. Also, I too am a hacker (99% of programmers are by knowledge!).. and your little security hole in the login_check.php has now been patched!
I did not write the script/system, it was made (as mentioned above) by some MLM creator company from India. Unfortunately for Todd, they are not the best programmers in the world. They have just taken the time to design the 2×2 board system.
Something I can do too, just a pain in the rear and no sense re-inventing the wheel. After being in the code, yes it was full of holes, programming errors, typo’s.. you name it. That is why they have hired me to help fix the holes and make it better!
For the record, I AM NOT a member of Cloud2x2 and I AM NOT part of their staff. I have been hired on, project based, for programming and that’s it. It is not salary (which would make me staff), it is project based. Nothing bad about them, I just don’t want people getting the wrong idea and spreading false claims about me as well.
This blog post is evident of how anyone can claim anything, and they don’t have the check their facts. Such as claiming some lady made a video, which she didn’t, claiming someone owned a site (or was staff) when they were just a big member recruiting just like normal affiliates…
Last point: Get over yourselves.. You act like your the saint of the internet. Stop worrying about everyone else and their endeavors, and worry about yourself. Check your facts before making claims, and stop spreading lies like 12 year old little girls.
Which you only gain access to once you’ve joined and become a member.
Members shuffling money around relies on new members coming in and = pyramid scheme. “Training” is also only part of the membership package, so fail again there.
Either way you look at it, selling commissionable positions in a compensation plan is not a legitimate product in MLM.
Who said anything about laws? Laws do not change a business model, of which “pyramid scheme” is one. An obviously unsustainable one but a business model nonetheless.
Laws and legality are up to the courts to deal with.
Oh and you state:
Except that it isn’t, because every claim is backed by analysis of the company’s actual compensation plan.
Your claims on the other hand… well, see above.
And here you are bitching about our alleged bitching… Who’s more pathetic?
So you’re here to make excuses for them instead, by demonstrating your ignorance of pyramid-shape organization vs. pyramid scheme. Job well done!
What stunning “logic”
Here’s the thing.
I’m not going to jump off the roof of my house anytime soon, BUT, I can warn people they should think very carefully before attempting to do it themselves.
Just as it’s entirely possible for me to be able to warn people about the potential pitfalls of joining any “program” in which it’s possible for members to engage in “endless chain recruiting” WITHOUT having to join said program myself.
Todd Hirsch has ran off with the money!! He sent out a email while on a trip in Hong Kong. Members have NOT been paid in 2 weeks.
Oh where oh where is Todd now?? The site is up on the outside but inside is empty. Great program but a greedy low life owner.
Hi “Cloud Member”
I have paid all the withdrawals in Cloud2x2 and even though Payza has a hold on 10% of the money, I still made sure everyone was paid that cycled and made fast start money.
It is sad how some members will turn on the owners, even some that have made money in the program… I however am a firm believer in Karma and I always make sure I do what is right when I own a program or marketing a company.
Everoyne that made money in Cloud2x2 has been paid and the program is a decent success.
2013 IS GOING TO BE EVEN BIGGER for MLM and our ventures!
It’s amazing the number of new MLM business ventures that pop up every year. The owners such as you Mr. Todd must really love it.
With your knowledge of building new sites and placing your close friends at the top of each venture, I can only imagine the tremendous amount of money you can generate for yourself and your buddies within a few short months.
I am not sure how all this MLM stuff works but when it comes to declaring your taxes every year, I was under the impression that if a business operates under a MLM “pyramid scheme type model” that it would not be wise to declare the earnings. Or would it? I guess this could be a whole different topic all together.
Todd Hirsch, owner or co-owner of Cloud 2×2, is not paying many of the affiliates and attacks them when asked to pay.
He owes lots of us and that includes sign up bonuses. The board is impossible to win on. Each time you get another person the board keeps breaking making it all but impossible for your team to work together and advance. All the money goes to Todd.
When I hear his self righteous talk against Troy and Zeek I am amazed and wonder at his gall. Many of us feel scammed in Cloud 2×2. He knows we have not been paid. And the pay company knows it as well.
He is in the Philippines now? Out of the US? Ever wonder why? Its easy to talk big when you are not present to face the music.
Todd should be ashamed but he is not. Knowing how many lost in Zeek, he recruited to Cloud 2×2 so he could cheat them again. We all have learned a lesson. Now we have to be sure that no one else gets ripped off.
He has another business beside Bidify and Cloud 2×2 that everyone talks about. He needs to be stopped.
“Where you go,there you are”…Todd Hirsch
EVERYONE IN CLOUD 2X2 HAS NOT BEEN PAID. Todd said that he paid to Solid Trust Pay. I know at least 5 of us that checked after approval and we have not been paid.
He accused at least one of trying to scam him. He is not honest. Do not believe a word he is saying. I have not been paid including fast start bonuses and I signed 7 or 8 affiliates.
He did not pay my sponsor or others in her team. He is not telling the truth!!!
Wade you also could have just made up all the bull you just spewed out. We can warn anyone we want! Period.
I can prove that all the legitimate cash outs have been paid. So not sure what you are talking about Lanette.
There was a team from India that did cheat the system and got in the program without paying for their spots. Those are the only people that were not paid and STP and Payza know about them. I have paid 100% of the legit members.
The compensation plan in Cloud2x2 is actually more fair and honest than many mlm plans. Any mlm program takes work to make money in it.
I wish you the best and I hope you can find a new positive and productive attitude for 2013 and beyond.
If you must know why I moved to the Philippines… I am getting married here and my move here was already planned way before I ever even started making Cloud2x2.
The wonderful thing about internet marketing is that you can live pretty much anywhere and still make a good living and not be chained to an office building, a boss, and a commute everyday.
I do pay my taxes every year on my earnings and I am a legitimate business owner with different LLC’s
I also paid my taxes on the money I made in Zeek… did you??? I know many have not.
If you think you are owed anything in Cloud2x2 or anyone in your team please email me. All the cash outs have been paid, but I will look into your claims.
Thanks and have a wonderful day!
Cyclers are just glorified pyramid schemes any way.
Todd, this may sound insulting, but… Filipinos are very vulnerable of being scammed. It seems that TVI Express, a scam long since kicked out of multiple countries, is STILL going on over there.
So, I sincerely keep your nose clean over there (if it’s clean in the first place).
Todd you are very sure of what I am talking about…would you like me to post your emails to me?
You have not paid me one dime and I have asked many times. I put my people in your game and I was in there not two weeks when you changed the amount that could be taken out from $50 to $100. That way a person would have to sign 4 people and not just 1 in order to get paid from their account.
The bonus for signing affiliates of $25 was never paid out. You know it and so do all the others in our group. You keep using the word legitimate as if we are all crooks. We paid $135 to get on the board, not $125.
My Sponsor is a wonderful person and I know some in her team and all in my own team. You are the only scam artist. None of us are crooks and you have not paid a dime. I have checked with all of them. You approved the payments and then said you sent them to Solid Trust Pay but you have not.
We have all contacted Solid Trust Pay to check. In addition we have all copied our back office and have proof. My bank shows my payments as well as other things. You have the nerve to even try and blame your employee.
You are a real piece of work! Where ever you go…there you are Todd Hirsch!
and Chang… you just gave this guy his big incentive to keep up the scam work he does so well!
Now you are using the distraction of taxes. I did not mention your taxes. I have no problems there so don’t try the threat.
And yes… I am sure that you planned to marry and move to the Philippines. That sounds about right!
Many mlm’s have a minimum earnings holding tank before any payouts can be made. The business owner also knows that most people cannot recruit more than 1 or 2, therefore the monies stay in the pocket of the owner once the scheme collapses or the affiliate quits.
It is just another sad reality of this mlm business where the owner walks away with your money through your hard work. You do all the work, the owner profits. The higher the holding tank is, the less of a chance you will have to pull your earnings out.
It is always a good idea to verify the fine print before joining any business. If a business owner changes the holding tank to a higher amount after you have already paid as an affiliate, it usually is a good indication that the owner is trying to screw you over knowing that 95% of affiliates will not be able to withdraw.
By rights all money in your holding tank should be yours, you earned it!
The more folks speak out about these shady mlm scheme business practices, the more folks can protect themselves from future dealings with these corrupt business owners.
In the cloud2x2 terms, looks like Todd reserves his right to cancel or suspend for any or no reason anyone’s account. He also can cancel any earnings from anyone for any reason. Now that alone is a sure indication of a HUGE RED FLAG.
They also state that they can send you emails re: other offers, this is another indication that the program also uses your info and that of your team to potentially sell them into other programs.
It is sort of like paying Todd and providing him with your own leads so that he can later pitch them on his other programs.
I hope Todd will do the right thing and pay you and your friends earnings Lanette. I guess we will see if Todd is a straight shooter or not.
Dear Concerned Citizen,
I appreciate your homework here. I should have read the fine print. I don’t blame anyone buy myself. However, I don’t want to see him get away with what he is doing.
When we realized the con he is, we met and my people moved their $25 to my account so that they could be paid. Some I paid in advance from my pocket once he approved the amount. That approval was weeks ago and some people were even before me.
As I have said, he never paid a dime. No matter how many times he says so. He keeps talking about Payza…there are two other modes of payment on the site and Solid Trust Pay is one of them. Notice he only speaks of Payza.
Hirsch is a con man! Don’t put any money if he is there. He milks and moves on to the next set of victims.
Doing just 30 minutes of research online, it is actually very scarey to read all the crap Todd has been pulling over the years. He certainly comes across as being someone who takes advantage of people through his numerous ponzie schemes!
I would find it very hard to actually believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I am even more amazed that anyone actually still joins any of his progScams.
If anything else, exposing him to the world might help others from getting shafted!
Sometimes Karma’s “payback” can be a real bitch!
It’s worth mentioning that if you click on Todd’s name from his most recent post the link leads to a website called rocketcashcycler dot com. While that site’s registration is set to private it’s currently using Toddhirsch dot net as it’s name server.
It looks like rocket cash cycler is the short lived little pyramid money game Todd is setting up to replace the short lived Cloud 2×2.
Warn your friends.
Uh, can you two provide a bit more, uh… proof? Any corroborating evidence, like screenshot of your whatever? (Obviously blank out any personally identifying info)
I do have proof which I have hesitated to post while trying to resolve things.
Notice he speaks of proof but does not show you any and only refers to Payza.
Since this post others have confirmed his not paying. I would not post a thing before being assured that I am protected and within my rights.
I would love to post once clear of any liability for what I have exposed to the public. I only want to reveal his lies not be held liable for doing so. Its being looked into now.
Well after reading all commits and doing some digging on my own, my thinking is Todd @ the Cloud is a scam and now is behind RCC poor people