NBS push for Norway FSA Towah investigation
It’s hard to get a sense of what happened between Bidify and the payment processor Towah. Starting around mid to early 2012, Bidify affiliates began reporting problems with getting their money out of the payment processor, who cited some investigation that could take “540 days” to get resolved.
The details of this investigation are sketchy and I don’t think Towah have ever actually clarified what it entailed. At least not in any great detail.
Regrettably the current situation between Bidify and Towah is rather extensive and due to sensitive information, there is unfortunately a limit to the amount of material we at this point can go public with.
Nonetheless what we are able to inform is that this is the result of two substantial incidents with Bidify;
The first being the changes made to the Bidify compensation plan, which led to a series of dissatisfied members who approached their banks and claimed to be victims of scam.
Shortly thereafter the second incident happened, where Bidify suffered a massive fraud attempt by the usage of multiple fraudulently credit cards.
The severity of these two events led to all accounts with our Cooperating Bank and Business partners to be frozen, and in the worst case scenarios it will be frozen for up until 540 days.
Thereafter a mistake was made in which allowed Bidify to keep running their compensation on paper, however the bank kept and still do keep the funds frozen, which in real terms means members are not able to use their existing Towah Funds.
Unfortunately we did not foresee the severity of these situations, and where therefore late in putting an end to the compensation payment made from Bidify to Towah Club Accounts.
Meanwhile Bidify affiliates were effectively cut off from the funds they’d invested into Bidify, as Bidify simply handballed the problem off to Towah and attempted to carry on business as usual.
Fast forward a year and a half later and other than Bidify changing its name to MyCenterBid, not much has changed. Echoing the furstrations of Bidify affiliates, now a British bank has also had enough.
The Newcastle Building Society bank (NBS) was approached by Towah to provide its customers with prepaid debit cards in 2011. By March 2011 problems began as Towah had failed to pass on money affiliates had deposited with the ewallet to the bank.
NBS contacted Towah and were told the company had ‘sent the money to the wrong account‘.
Another irregularity was Towah’s use of a single account to store affiliate money, which prompted NBS to send another email on the 7th of June 2011. NBS advised Towah that ‘in accordance with UK law, seperate, segregated accounts‘ were to be used to store affiliate money.
As of the 17th of June Towah had done nothing. The requested segregated accounts had not been setup and neither had the deposited affiliate money turned up in Towah’s account.
This prompted yet another email from NBS to the company, who at the time were starting to feel concerned considering they themselves had funded the 3 million Euro ($4.04 million USD) Towah’s customers had withdrawn from the NBS account.
Whether Towah responded to NBS is unclear, but to date the bank has not been reimbursed for their funding of Towah’s business operations.
Likely as fed up as Bidify’s affiliates with a lack of communication on matters of money, NBS have now petitioned the Norway’s Financial Supervisory Authority (FSA) to investigate Towah. Responding to questions from Norway’s “Dagbladet”, NBS spokesperson Angela Russel said that ‘the petition has gone in our favor‘.
Dagbladet contacted the FSA about their investigation and were advised that
Towah does not have permission to promote or conduct banking business (including the issuing and administering means of payment (credit cards)) in Norway.
What exactly, if anything, might come of the FSA’s investigation I’m not sure. Those more familiar with European law might be able to offer some more insight in the comments below.
Of note are the allegations made by former Bidify CEO Albert Liske, who claimed
Towah and Bidify have a much closer relationship then anyone might acknowledge publicly.
In fact, Frode Jørgensen and the owner and CEO of Towah Tor Anders Petteroe have a well established friendship going back to Plexpay and Frodes other failed Ponzi schemes.
Recently Frode bailed out the owner of Towah from another MLM failure they were involved in. This saved the processing accounts Towah had. This enabled Frode to use this service and it’s payment processing completely unchecked.
With only $100,000 in the Towah account it is NOT POSSIBLE FOR TOWAH TO REFUND YOU as this money was already taken to cover charge backs.
The Towah problems are a cover story your reps are using to hide the real story.
$100,000? One can only wonder where the other $8.9 million USD went. NBS certainly have no idea.
Liske signed on as Bidify’s CEO but resigned after just a month. He never retracted the above but did apparently reach some sort of settlement with Bidify shortly after making the above claims. Liske claims that in this settlement “nothing of value was exchanged”.
Meanwhile Towah boss Anders Petterøe, who has a long association with pyramid scheme scams in Norway, has thus far been unavailable for comment. On a recent Towah conference call however Petterøe claimed Bidify was responsible for Towah “losing” 50 million Krone ($9 million USD).
Where exactly that money went is a mystery.
Petterøe’s friends over at Bidify have been a bit more forward with comment, publicly pondering why nobody has been interested in depositing money with the company since they abandoned the US in June, then changing the company name to MyCenterBid two weeks later.
There’s a lot of holes in the Bidify Towah saga but I can think of at least 9 million reasons as a start…
The reference to dates back to 2011 are about Towah, not about Bidify. Dagbladet is covering NBS’ version of the story, for the relation between NBS and Towah dating back to 2011.
Bidify is only indirectly a part of that story. Bidify is briefly mentioned in the part where Dagbladet.no is linking back to 3 older articles. The rest of that article is mostly about NBS’ version of some older problems with Towah, dating back to 2011.
NBS’ claim against Towah is €2.6 million euros, dating back to 2011 (March 2011, June 2011). That amount comes in addition to Bidify’s claim against Towah.
It’s about 2 different claims, and NBS is only involved in one of them. Towah used a different bank in Gibraltar when Bidify was a client (I believe).
NBS’ claim against Towah:
€2.6 million euro, dating back to 2011.
Estimated Bidify claims against Towah:
€4.4 million euro, owed to Bidify itself.
€2.0 million euro, owed to Bidify’s affiliates.
Those amounts were estimated by Tor Anders Petterøe himself in a recorded telephone conference with Bidify’s Larus Palmi Magnusson.
The dagbladet.no article is a little vague on some points, e.g. it doesn’t clearly separate between the different claims, different Towah companies, and different banks.
Towah used a different banking service provider in 2012, IDT Financial Services Limited, Gibraltar.
BIDIFY WAS A ZEEK COMPETITION PROGRAM
While the flea’s are feasting on Zeek Rewards Bidify starts up and Kevin Thompson joins convicted Frogie Jorgensen to assist that the Bidify Program is legal and spurs on a massive wave of recruiting, to the point they think they are winning the penny auction race…then Zeek gets investigated.
KEVIN THOMPSON WERE ARE YOU NOW ??????????????????????
KEVIN YOU ARE BIDIFY’S LAWYER REMEMBER ????
KEVIN HELP US GET OUR MONEY OUT OF TOWAH PLEASE!!!!
I am sick of you trying to be the advocates of legality when you ate many steak dinners on the cash mountains
Thanks for the clarification M_Norway, I’ve updated the article with your input.
You only mention Bidify here, i can tell you a lot of other companies where caught up with Towah. Towahs problems started long before bidify came on the scene. We had free and clear funds in our accounts way before bidify entered the scene.
Yet Towah was a complete shambles to deal with.
Myself and many other have 10’s of thousands owed to us by Towah, even before the Bidify debacle.
Towah has now used bidify as an out. 5 different cards i received from towah all stopped working only weeks after receiving them. Endless excuses from Towah and then finally the bidify bump. I wonder what would have happened if Bidify didnt turn up, what excuse would be used next by Towah.
To this day i have never received any official explanation as to why we cannot withdraw our money.
Hey guys… i see you are catching up! If you need any details please email me with your questions and i will answer!
Kind Regards
Frode
Can you name some of the companies, or name the one that initially was part of the problem in 2011? I’m simply trying to fill in some of the missing details.
NBS sent a warning letter to Towah in March 2011 and June 2011. Towah already had some problems back then. Up until 2011, it looks like Towah used Newcastle Building Society as the registered bank responsible for the prepaid debit cards. Then it switched to IDT Financial Services Ltd.
I’m trying to fill in some of the missing details from 2011 and 2012, e.g. which company / companies were involved in the unfunded withdrawals in 2011.
Some corrections to the article …
The amount there should either be “close to €3 million euro” (reflected in Dagbladet’s headline), or “€2.6 million euro” (reflected in the information from NBS). Google sometimes translates to random currencies, and here it has replaced euros with NOK (Norwegian Krone).
That petition was about bankruptcy for Towah Group Limited in the UK. Any investigation will be about the company / companies in the UK.
The Norwegian Financial Supervisory Authority (Finanstilsynet) stated that it didn’t have the correct jurisdiction to supervise Towah. That part was a little vague in Dagbladet’s article, but the statement from Finanstilsynet said “Towah doesn’t have the licenses required to promote or offer banking services (including payment services) in Norway. As a result of that, Finanstilsynet doesn’t have the formal jurisdiction to supervise it either”.
I should potentially try to get a better answer from Finanstilsynet, but the NBS part of the case should normally be handled locally in the UK.
Dagbladet’s reporter have asked wrong types of questions to the wrong type of authority, and the replies to those questions were rather confusing. I read fluid Norwegian, but that article caused a lot of confusion. 🙂
M_Norway & Oz.
As always you are very good in your research. You often write harsh about me as a person, but thats fine. I guess i have to get used to my past following me!
Those who want to learn the truth can always get the info they want direct from the source instead of making it up by themselves, i have never been hiding anything i have done!
However, many times you have been wrong but some times you have been nailing it, and because of that i know you are good in your research. i also read your site daily, as you are always writing straight from the hip, and often have good info, as you are not PAID reporters, as many of these other blogs!
Sometimes I wish we could have communicated directly because there seems to always be a lot of misunderstandings and mix ups… Plus im always linked to all kinds of companies i have never heard of! I guess that whats happen when your name is Frode. My heart is always in one place though!
I see you are head on with the Towah case, we are on the same war path, as i too want the truth to come out there. I have been getting a lot of blame for what has happened, when in reality, neither i or the company i work for have anything to do with whats going on!
Yes, i have a history, but that does not mean im a bad person! And i have no close relations to any of the guys in Towah, whatsoever.. as it seems to be funny to link us to all kinds of shitty companies.
I have never been big in neither WGI or any other company these guys have been involved in. I did one mistake in my life, and that was when i started Plexpay… The big mistake was to not operate within compliance and neither did we have the legal advisors in place. I was sentenced, did my time and have moved on.
I paid hard for that mistake!
Bringing the past back might cause amusement for you guys, but for me thats history, its gone! I remember, but have moved forward! If i had not, it would have been eating me up from inside.
History cannot be changed, unfortunately, but one can learn of previous misfortunes and experiences.
I did an interview with Kevin Thompson straight from the heart when we started Bidify, and i did not hide anthing there either:
Maybe you should tag this Towah instead of MCB… As i dont see the connection really.. as MCB never have worked with Towah!If you want to do a review on MCB, you are welcome! We are doing good and i dont recognice your BS about Penny Auction Niche having a tough time!
Just check out our Auction Site and you will see that there is alot of things going on. But also do check the amount of closed(WON) Auctions since we opened in June! Right now: 3703 closed auctions, all with surplus!
Contact me directly if interested, i guess you can get my email from Oz!
Im still waiting for Feedback from you guys, but as of now, nothing….. utterly silense… Maybe thats the way you want it to be?
“Success is not something you buy, it’s something you achieve after HARD work!”
Frode J
Well, Frode, simple question… how much due diligence do you do on the companies you work with?
I know it’s a pretty open-ended question, but let’s say something specific… Do you require them to hold a big amount as “deposit hedge”, like those pay processors did to Zeek?
So if there are payment problems, would it be YOUR fault, or THEIR fault? Or is that part of the operating agreement, that you can’t say?
I have included that in at least one comment, something about “relatively low risk for identity theft and similar types of related scams”, i.e. describing you as a network marketer type of organizer. I could easily have exaggerated a different type of message.
I have tried to correct that in post #8. The Dagbladet.no article is about Newcastle Building Society and Towah, about a situation in 2011 and the more current results of that.
Try to replace that slogan with something about VALUE rather than hard work. Long term success revolves around how able people are to generate something of value and deliver it into a market for a profit. I’m talking about monetary success here, generated from some value people are willing to pay for.
Money can be exchanged without the exchange of value, e.g. people can be willing to pay for different opportunities simply because they want to believe in them. Ideas like that can only work for a short period of time, and it typically will involve some long term disadvantages.
Any true recipe for success will need to include the idea of VALUE. That’s what people are willing to pay for. You didn’t pay Kevin Thompson for his TIME or for his “hard work”, did you? 🙂
Hey K,
We do a great deal of diligence with all companies, and we did the same with Towah.
We did not have a huge “holdback” percentage on CC processing with them from our end. Problem was that we also used them as “Pay Out” solution for all our affiliates, as they offered E-Wallet solutions.
Towah operated a e-wallet system similar to Global Cash Card or Payoneer.
These systems require you to have money on a master account to transfer to cards. Thats also where money were transferred in advance to keep a balance to be able to constantly pay commissions out upon requests.
As we paid our affiliates out their commissions to their e-wallets an Prepaid Mastercards and suddenly they closed down all their systems, it led to thousands of affiliates claiming we did not pay them… when in fact we did. Monay is still there, and now we are working to get it back/available for members withdrawals.
What happened would be like Global Cash card or Payoneer suddenly closing down all members accounts in a flash… and then just hiding, sharing BS info to stall time.
So i my eyes.. Id we have transferred millions to that account and it suddenly get closed, or if all the members accounts that have received money get closed… what does that have to do with us, and what could we have done to prevent it?
Actually nothing… we could not have done anything to prevent that other that NOT working with Towah.
Always easy to be clever after, right…..
Frode
And the lesson:
Get several separate processors, settle to your corporate bank account, then get a Pay Out solution that works and transfer funds frequently to the master account there, to not end up in the same situation we did!
Using processors to store money to save money is not clever, EVER!
But you can never be sure that the “Pay Out” solution you choosed suddenly close doors or even gets shut down… Thats if you’re using a wallet system though…
Maybe best to go back to writing monthly paychecks from banks.. oh i forgot.. they are closing down and going bankrupt as well these days…
Difficult yeah!
All we want to do is pay peoples commissions!
Then the answer is simple: disclose that fact, with proof, that it’s not your fault. Transparency is the best course, yes?
What fact do you mean that the company need to disclose? i cannot disclose anything myself..
What are you looking for?
Dislose facts that its not our fault that Towah dont have money?
I guess thats have to be disclosed by them…
all i can disclose is the amount of money we have there… but thats tricky here since i cannot upload any images…
and its a bit more than 100k euros… as someone previously claimed…
I’m sure you can put in on imgur or such places…
Well, i dont really need to prove anything, but for your amusement….
http://imgur.com/8Q0s4do
And maybe you know understand the frustration…
Thus any problem regarding not paying out is technically the fault of your payment processors’, and you’re suing them for fraud? 🙂
Exactly!
Talk Later 🙂
Now lets go back to business !
Towah Group Limited, in liquidation:
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/towah-group
Frustration is generally not a good strategy.
@M_Norway
Thanks for the further clarification, I’ve updated the article again.
You’re telling me. Even with the foreign language reports corrections are rare, I’m on my third or so revision here I think!
@Frode
Very well. Let’s start with why did Albert Like and Chris Robinson resign after a month? And what was the agreement in its entirety between Bidify and Liske that led to him pulling his whistleblower website offline?
My interest piques from Bidify affiliates randomly asking where their money went. In all my years of covering MLM I’ve never heard of so much money just disappearing with no forthcoming clear explanation by the parties involved. Least of all companies that are still in business!
See above for context. If Bidify hadn’t of used Towah leaving its affiliates wondering where their money went I probably wouldn’t be covering the story.
Come on now, when has auction activity ever translated into “success” in the MLM penny auction niche? How much new money is coming in from affiliates?
I believe it can be wiser to ask about Towah than to ask about Bidify. Bidify was only a “side note” in the dagbladet.no article. The reporter’s main focus in the different articles was about Towah / “The Pyramid King”.
Dagbladet’s team of reporters have probably covered other pyramid scheme cases earlier, e.g. World Games Inc., T5PC and others. From THEIR viewpoint, the former WGI “World Leader” Tor Anders Petterøe is the main part of the story. The articles needs to be interpreted from that viewpoint.
*******************
The different sources, chronologically sorted “Newest first”:
1. October 31 2013 (the source for the article here):“British big bank rage against Pyramid King: Claims 20 million NOK has disappeared”. (slightly modified translation)
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/10/31/nyheter/towah/utenriks/tor_anders_petter/pyramide/29687410/?www=1
That article will lead to 4 of the other 5 articles about Towah (and Bidify). A link to the translated article should make it easier to get an overview.
************2. October 14 2013:
Father and son Petterøe gave eachother salary of 80,000 NOK per month. (€10,000 euro per month)
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/10/14/nyheter/towah/tor_anders_petter/utenriks/29592109/
************3. October 13 2013 (April 30 2011):
Pyramid King splashed out when baronesses were on the ball.
– A great opportunity for us to meet key European contacts, says Tor Anders Petterøe.
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/10/13/nyheter/towah/utenriks/tor_anders_petter/pyramide/29602425/
************4. October 6 2013:
Pyramid King settled bankruptcy. Here he arrives in the super-Mercedes (about the bankruptcy in Norway)
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/10/06/nyheter/towah/konkurs/innenriks/tor_anders_petteroe/29527263/
************5. October 5 2013:
Pyramid King aims towards China. But angry customers are waiting on the sideline. (modified translation)
World Games Top Tor Anders Petterøe invested in new, lucrative hunting grounds.
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/10/05/nyheter/tor_anders_petteroe/towah/kina/taiwan/29022920/
************6. August 19 2013:
Pyramid Top bankruptcy again
Link:
dagbladet.no/2013/08/19/nyheter/tor_anders_petteroe/pyramide/konkurs/innenriks/28694177/
A lot of background information can be found in that article.
TEMPORARY CONCLUSIONMoney has disappeared from the system Towah Group Limited / Towah Norway AS, while Towah 42 seems to have become much more profitable. The owners have also rewarded themselves.
Some of the money can probably be found in Towah 42.
And some of the money can probably be found in Towah Members Club Ltd., founded in 2011.
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/towah-members-club
Towah Members Club Ltd (UK) is a 100% shareholder in Towah 42 AS (Norway)
My logic goes like this:
* Towah Group was already in trouble in March/June 2011, but it was kept alive for as long as possible until the bankruptcy in 2013
* The new company Towah Members Club pops up a few months later in 2011 (incorporated October 31 2011).
* The same year and the year after (2011/2012), Towah 42 AS became much more profitable, selling IT services to Towah Group (and potentially to SOME external customers).(post #9)
This has also partly been answered in post #11. “People buy VALUE, their own ideas about what’s valuable to them”.
People are literally paying for the REFLECTIONS of their own ideas about “value”, typically about ideas they already have accepted themselves as “valuable”, partially about ideas reflected by other people in their own environment.
That’s one of the closest descriptions I’m able to give for WHY people are willing to pay for something. Some people even accepted to pay MORE for “meet the leaders” tickets than for ordinary Red Carpet Event tickets in ZeekRewards. 🙂
Frustration is not a good strategy in business.
The best strategy is normally to collect information, a.k.a. “Remove the Fog of War”, until you have a clear enough picture to make partial decisions about something.
companieshouse.gov.uk lists Towah Group Limited as “in liquidation”. Liquidation details:
Bidify has either been listed as a creditor to Towah Group Limited, or it hasn’t.
Towah seems to have moved the payment processing operations to the two other companies (Towah Members Club Ltd., and Towah 42 AS), in 2011 or 2012.
TOWAH COMPANIES LISTED IN THE UKOne interesting part is that Towah Group Limited listed itself as a bank, but I was never able to find any banking licenses / agent licenses.
Another interesting part is that Towah Members Club Limited is classified as DORMANT. That probably means the payment processing operations currently are being organized by the company in Norway, Towah 42 AS. Tor Anders Petterøe may of course have some other Towah companies in other countries, but I’m only trying to identify where the operations are being organized.
I’m pretty sure Tor Anders Petterøe is running Towah from his home in Fredrikstad, Norway. You will potentially find some Towah companies in other countries too, but they are probably only empty shell companies.
First let me say i appreciate that we can stick to the purpose of this post and not talking about other things that have nothing to do with the theme..
Secondly, as far as we know from our research, Tor is running the business from Malaga, and any other country he might visit. Especially now since Norway office is shut down!
And there is not a few towah compnaies around… in fact there is a lot of Towah companies in a lot of countries around the world…
US, China, etc…
Thirdly, frustration is indeed not a good strategy in business, thats no secret, but its allowed to be frustrated sometimes. Strategy wise related to this case we have done a lot of background research, spent a lot of time and money…this is something we just cannot let go, its a HUGE amount of cash, both company’s and affiliate’s.
We now know so much more than anyone can ever imagine. But i hope you guys understand that this is not the correct space or place to publish/share such information at the current stage.
This is heavy stuff that involve police and investigators in various countries, and im sure when its publicly available you will get the info.
Anyway M_ im sure you can figure out my email as i work in centerbid….
Frode
Here are some of the companies….
Towah Entertainment Ltd
Towah Group Ltd
Towah Members Club Ltd
Towah PLC
Towah 42 AS
Towah USA Inc.
Towah Sweden AB
Towah Norway AS
Towah Finance Limited (BVI) Company Number 1626036;
Towah Hong Kong Limited
Towah Entertainment NUF
(post #9)
The easiest way is probably to just DO IT (communicate), rather than wishing you could be able to do so. 🙂
From our viewpoint, Bidify was a ZeekRewards clone, a Ponzi / pyramid hybrid heavily dependant on money coming in from new investors to be able to pay the old ones. It wouldn’t have survived anyway, but the problems with Towah have clearly contributed to worsening the payment problems.
You can’t expect us to believe in ideas about how “profitable” affiliate funded penny auctions are. We’re able to separate between BIDS and MONEY, i.e. we know you can’t count bids as a monetary value (e.g. use statements like “monthly revenue was around 2 million bids”, or use logic like “since each bid is worth 1 euro, …”).
Post #31 contains a few basic ideas or principles. One of them was about REFLECTIONS (of OTHER people’s ideas). “People will believe in something (or buy something) if it REFLECTS their own ideas”.
Ideas like “The only problem was compliance” may reflect your own ideas, but there’s no way a lawyer can be able to “fix” a Ponzi or pyramid and make it become compliant. That idea simply doesn’t reflect OUR ideas.
THIS ARTICLEI have identified the story in dagbladet.no to PRIMARILY have been about Towah, one of 5 different articles primarily revolving around Towah’s problems (bankruptcies, potential investigation in the UK, claims from NBS, Bidify’s problem with Towah, etc.).
In short, I have identified that part relatively correctly.
REFLECT PEOPLE’S IDEASIf you want to reflect people’s ideas, the typical ide here is “factual and unbiased information”, i.e. add some factual information about the primary topic or any of the related subtopics. Fill in some of the missing pieces?
Another type of identifiable idea is the ideas some of those affected might have, i.e. the people who experienced payment problems and are still waiting for some solutions. If someone bring in information they’re interested in, they will probably pop up from all around the internet.
I know that this has been your viewpoint all along. We are still here, not going anywhere…
Our business is solely based on CUSTOMERS bidding in the auctions. And not on affiliates buying bids. Bid purchases pays nothing unless bids are used.
Recently this has shown more and more on our site since more and more customers have started to get attracted to our auction, buying bids and bidding at auctions.
Affiliate driven penny auctions are no more profitable than any other penny auction out there at the end of the day. It all has to do with how many bids are used in the auctions every day. How much profit can be made, how much does the products cost etc.
I 100% agree tha the Zeek “finger in the air” model is a ponzi. Our model however has always been driven of actual bids used, and not a “wannabe” revenue!
The affiliate part will drive customers to the auction site, since affiliates have a benefit or referring people to the auction and earn commissions. At the same time the company can use a portion of the daily profits to pay these affiliates since they are marketing the business, instead of using traditional marketing channels.
I know we might disagree to a lot of things related to our model, but sometimes we do not rcognize ourselves in the way our concept is presented.
I have no problems commenting our model, but this post is not the right place for that.
@Frode
You said:
So I said:
And you replied:
Oh Frode, how disappointing.
Guess we can “ask the source”, but only if it’s something the source wants to talk about.
@Frode
Come on Frode… affiliates buy the bids, dump them on fake customer accounts, use them and get paid.
It’s a bit of effort over simply getting paid to dump the bids and that’s why you haven’t attracted the masses. Still an affiliate-funded scheme though so let’s not beat about the bush.
The important part is who are BUYING (and PAYING for) those bids, the customers or the affiliates? Affiliate funded bid purchases can’t be profitable for the affiliates.
The main topic in this article can be defined to be Towah, Towah’s bankruptcies, and payment problems related to Towah. Or it SHOULD be the main topic, after I identified the current source to be one of 5 articles about Towah.
It’s probably wise to cover that part first, i.e. it will be what readers will be looking for and will expect to find.
CLARIFY SOME DETAILS?I identified the 5 different articles in post #29. One of them is about Bidify’s problems with Towah. It has 2 different verions of the story, Frode’s version and Tor Anders Petterøe’s version. In the last version, Bidify was partly a cause of the problems. Can you clarify that part?
ADD MORE INFO?I have identified some of the Towah companies:
* Towah Norway AS, in bankruptcy 2013
* Towah 42 AS, more profitable in the last 2-3 years
* Towah Group AS, in liquidation 2013
* Towah Members Club, founded 2011
Can you add more information about Towah companies / how it has been organized? I was trying to identify where the money potentially could have ended up. There has been all sorts of rumours, e.g. about problems in China. But the Petterøe family seems to have enough money to reward themselves, according to the Dagbladet articles.
It may be a big difference between money frozen in China and money routed through the Norwegian company Towah 42 AS to some Petterøe family accounts.
Here’s some additional information about the Towah companies, found in the articles in post #29.
1. There’s a Towah company in Spain too.
Towah Group Europe SL (Spain)
– CEO/owner Tor Anders Petterøe (lives in Spain)
– owns the Mercedes ML63 AMG
2. Towah Norway AS (Norway)
– founded 26.01.2011
– registered 04.04.2011
– CEO Michael Andre Petterøe, from June 2012
– insolvent from January 2013 (payment problems)
– filed for bankruptcy in July 2013 (debt $250,000)
– 12 employees (e.g. support)
3. Towah Group Limited (UK)
– registrant for towahbanking.com
– registrant for towah.com
– in liquidation September/November 2013
– claims €2.6 million from NBS
Towah’s cooperation with UNAICO in China is stated to be one of the causes to the problems.
Thanks for all the information you did!
And also thanks for @Frode it is you who chose this damn payment processor which made me have been waiting for my frozen withdraw for almost fucking 13 months.
And now I am still confused where is my money, both of bidify and Towah always reply me the same bullshit, and also you said that you couldn’t give me the more information, but i am the victim, why I don’t have the rights to know the truth?
And Why I still not received my winning auction in Bidsson since last year? I almost forget what I won.
Hey, would it make any difference if it was any other processor.. Grow up, and act like an adult! How can this be my F***** Fault! This company is not run by me alone.. Whoever might think so are VERY WRONG!
It should be pretty clear in this post what we are trying to achieve! We have been working on this for a long time, lets see how it all turns out!
I have no idea?
We ship products out every single day… can there be an issue with you address etc? Have you tried contacting support regarding this?
Another thing, you sound like you have lost your money, when in fact you have not! Maybe let us try to do what it takes to get you access to it before you start chopping heads! After all, we are on your side, and not working against you!
i have no idea what have caused this problem, but we are getting more and more details every day in our own investigations.
Towah have been hiding behind som CC Fraud that occured in September 2012, but that was nowhere near the amounts we are talking about. Also those payments were never processed.
We have been working closely with the processing bank since January 2013 to follow up on all these cases, and they have NOT blocked such amounts at all. It seems like this is an excuse to buy time from Towah’s end!
You are doing a great job M_Norway, very good research, i think the answer might be in Spain and Sweden.
Looks like the Swedish company had som increased revenue…
Still i cannot understand how they can be serving new companies.. They will all have huge problems in a short time! As the story seems to be repeating!
@Frode.Sorry for the insults to bidify and you but what I said is true, you can’t deny it.
Thanks for you still open this website to help us know what is going on now.And we are in the same boat, our enemy is Towah, we members of the old bidify just want to get our money out.
And this program it seems they receive the money from Towah. Can some one find it out ?
iriscall.com
You will probably need to look at the compensation plan from another viewpoint? If I remember it correctly, the compensation plan will reward the recruiters at the expense of the passive investors. Most passive investors will actually lose money if they continue to pay the monthly membership fee.
You will also need to recheck your own ideas about the “profitability” of people spending bids in auctions.
HERE’S AN EXAMPLE
If the bid cost is €1.00 per bid, a new affiliate investing in e.g. 1000 bids will pay €1,000. That’s the ONLY monetary transaction from that affiliate (if we ignore membership fees).
* When the bids are spent in an auction, that’s NOT a monetary transaction. People don’t pay €1 EXTRA when they use bids in auctions, the monetary transaction was fulfilled in the initial purchase of bids. You can’t add BIDS to revenue, revenue and profit are about MONEY.
* Fake customers can’t replace real ones. Affiliates can’t replace customers. An affiliate funded penny auction will not be very profitable for the average affiliate, it will actually drain the system for money.
* When people are reinvesting something from the back office, that’s not a monetary transaction. Payouts to the back office are “numbers on a screen”, a type of non monetary internal balance.
You can’t add that to the revenue. The main purpose of reinvestments is to prevent people from withdrawing too much money too fast, but it will not add anything to the revenue.
* The COST PRICE of €1.00 per bid is way to high for an average consumer in most markets. I seriously doubt Bidify / MyCenterBid have any external customers.
You were rather VAGUE on the customer part of your explanation, you focused on whether or not the bids actually were used. That’s not important at all.
The above points are the reasons why I recommended you to focus on the Towah part of the story, rather than trying to defend Bidify / MyCenterBid as a business model. You will meet a much tougher audience here than in an average BizOp forum.
If you believe in those ideas yourself, it will be an indicator for that you don’t run it as a real business, e.g. you don’t really have any control over the financial part of the business. Your belief system will fail when it meets resistance, e.g. logical questions about customers and payment for bids.
The fact that you believe in something doesn’t tell anything about the realities, e.g. the idea you have that the use of bids is important. Your belief system will not survive a logical test. The way you have described that idea was rather vague.
SEPARATE BETWEEN TOWAH AND BIDIFY / MYCENTERBID
We can probably accept that Towah is the main part of that specific payment problem, the one that was initiated sometimes in the second half of 2012. The Dagbladet.no articles points in that direction, along with the other information available (e.g. WHEN new Towah companies have been registered, changes in how profitable some of them have been).
But Bidify / MyCenterbid probably has its own problems, other problems than the Towah problem. You should probably separate those two problems from each other, they will need different types of solutions.
MyCenterBid isn’t a solution to the Towah problem. MyCenterBid will reward people with a downline at the expense of the passive investors. That won’t work well in reality, you will get a majority of dissatisfied affiliates who feel cheated. A solution like that will actually add to the total problem.
THE TOWAH PROBLEM
The Towah problem can potentially be resolved, i.e. people can potentially get SOME of their money back. But it will need different types of solutions than a compensation plan can offer.
That problem should have been “freezed” immediately = freeze payouts and conserve information, to prevent messing up the problem further. That’s how a legitimate business would have handled that problem. It would also have released factual (no marketing BS) information about it.
You can’t change how it actually has been handled, i.e. “how it SHOULD have been handled if …” will not make any sense.
A few parts of it may still make some sense, e.g. a legitimate business would have tried to identify the problem correctly (WHERE the problem is located, WHAT it is about, the AMOUNTS involved in it, HOW it will affect the members, WHEN it can be expected to be resolved, etc.).
Marketing BS can’t replace factual info when it’s about handling problems. Marketing BS will create confusion, it can be used to DELAY the reactions to a problem for a period of time. But it will also lead to that people will look for other sources for information, they will stop believing in you as a source.
CONCLUSION?
Identify the problem correctly, e.g. try to separate the Towah problem from the whole, e.g. in how it has affected the members.
MyCenterBid will NOT be a solution to that problem. It will first of all be all the passive investors that will be dissatisfied with that solution = the majority of the affiliates.
Zeek’s shutdown changed the realities, e.g. people are less willing to believe in MLM based penny auctions and profit sharing after Zeek’s shutdown. When the realities have changed, the solutions will need to change to.
Most passive investors will not feel very comfortable if they will need to recruit family and friends into the program, when they already have been affected by problems themselves.
Your ideas of a solution won’t meet the majority of the market. You have listened to the few near the top rather than to the majority. What THEY see as a solution (the few near the top) will not work for the majority.
I don’t have any solutions for you, but the idea “Identify the problem correctly” should normally be a part of ANY solution in itself (you will need to understand the problem before you can put up any good solutions to it). That’s where some of your focus should have been, on identifying the problem correctly rather than on putting up temporarily solutions to it.
The general idea of separating problems into identifiable parts (rather than mixing them together) can also be useful. It MAY be possible to find solutions to some of them if they can be clearly identified.
That was a wery good mail M, Just to let you know i will address it, and all your bullet points.
It seems like you still havent understood the MCB compplan. Seems like you have a twisted mind about how it really works! Talking about things i cannot identify myself with.
It has nothing to do with Fake Customers people investing money. And if someone buy bids, of course its revenue! Bids are the product!!
And nobody are paid until the product is consumed! Thats a new one, not even AmWay say that you have to use the shampoo before you get paid!
Basically what you are saying is “if you buy a Big Mac it cannot count as revenue at the store because someone told you to buy it”!
I will answer all your points, just gimme some time, im on the airport right now!
But back to the real issue of this post:
The fact is that these money have already been paid out to the members Towah accounts. It’s not like we are are paying people through Towah as we speak.
The company are the biggest hurt part here, but affiliates have lots of funds locked in their Towah wallets as well! We are talking about millions of euros, not pocketmoney.
Nevertheless the company are still going strong and managing our daily operations, and as of today we haven’t missed a single commission payout day!
Problem is those who was paid thru Towah back then…. As we are not using the defunct Towah anymore our payouts are running smooth every Friday!
We have separated the Towah problem one year ago! They haven’t kill us, and they never will. BUT, that does not stop us from going after the money that dissapeared and they stole from us!
For us, every day is business as usual, New revenue, Auctions are won, commissions are paid, products are shipped… every single day!
For them it will be hell, trust me, been there done that!!
(attempt to take discussion offsite removed)
“If someone BUY bids, it’s revenue” isn’t 100% correct. The correct statement should be “If someone is PAYING for the bids with real money, it’s revenue”.
It’s the TRANSACTION of money that generates revenue, not the PROCESS of buying/selling bids. Without that transaction of money (from external accounts), it won’t generate any revenue.
It will be like any other purchase. If you pay for a product with monopoly money or a “free product coupon”, it won’t generate any revenue.
We can compare the back office to a glass of water. When the company pay out commissions or profit share that way, it fills more water into the glass from an unlimited supply of water.
If people use some of the WATER to pay for bids, it won’t generate any revenue or profit. The water won’t be “converted” into money in the process of buying bids, it will still be water.
If people pay for bids with WATER, their supply of water will be reduced. Water is consumable, i.e. the company won’t earn any water from the transaction (it will simply be consumed in the process).
If people pay for bids with MONEY, their supply of money will be reduced. Money is a monetary VALUE, so it will generate revenue for the company.
Bids are consumables. If people are spending them in auctions, the bids will simply disappear when they have been consumed. They will not add anything to revenue, i.e. it won’t suddenly pop up some money from thin air when people are consuming their bids.
Purchase of bids by outside party generates TWO entries… 1) income / revenue, and 2) a “virtual liability” as such bids can be used (for bidding) (which may or may not generate *real* financial liability, as it depends on whether the purchases win something of value)
By counting it as revenue without mentioning the other part, Frode basically did “all of the good, none of the bad” routine. 🙂
I’m trying to simplify my bid purchase explanations, making them easier to understand. The problem is that people already have ACCEPTED ideas about the value of bids, and accepted the back office payouts as real money.
I will need some short statements (IDEAS) people can ACCEPT, e.g. “Bids are CONSUMABLES, similar to orange juice. The bids are CONSUMED when they are used in an auction”.
People know perfectly well that they can’t pay for anything with orange juice. Most people also know that money won’t materialize out of thin air if they consume a glass of orange juice. Most people actually have relatively rational ideas about orange juice.
in MyCenterBid, people seem to belive that if they pay €200 for 0.2 litres of orange juice, that orange juice will be worth €200, and it will still be worth the same amount if they give it away to a customer. When the customer is consuming the orange juice, money will materialize out of thin air and add €200 to the company’s revenue.
I will need to describe it in a way like that to be able to ask the right questions. I’m very interested in learning more about the process where consumption of orange juice makes money materialize out of thin air.
Your metaphor is almost zen-like, M_N… 🙂
I’m trying to find methods to COMPETE with people’s own ideas about “bids are WORTH €1 euro” (or whatever they feel the bids are worth). I’m TESTING different methods.
The logical idea is to try to use OTHER ideas people already have accepted as true, in “competition” with the flawed idea that bids are some sort of monetary unit they can use to “pay” for something.
I’m trying to find similar methods for explaining payouts to the back office. I have tried “monopoly money”, “internal currency”, “numbers on a screen”. Now I’m trying different sets of ideas.
The need for trying NEW ideas can clearly be explained in all the lengthy discussions I have had with people about bid values in many different threads. People will be heavily affected by their OWN ideas.
In a discussion, they will stop analysing ideas, they will rather REPEAT the same ideas over and over again in some type of “idea battle” against their opponent (and typically that opponent is me).
Is there something new about Towah need to be revealed? Pls share with us Thank you.
If I hear anything it will be published. Spamming this article with requests for non-existent updates doesn’t benefit anyone.
Hello folks.
Same question here as well – any news about Towah ? Let me describe, what I am worried about:
– I created account by Towah Club Account service, all stuff done, because I found that it should be fine to have some reserve account for money (I put there 30€, so in comparing with other people, “nothing”)
– this year I realized I am not going to use it anymore, and until today I am hunting for details, since I want to delete accounts in Towah
– my worries are that I am still charged for fees on Towah Club Account, and few days ago I realized that I am not going to be able to pay next fee (3€ if there is no longer inactivity)
– in fact, even if I would want to charge money there, looks like, based on this article, I am not going to be successful
– somewhere in FAQ of Towah Members Club I found that I can cancel my accounts, however, there were 2-3 email attempts to Towah Support… with no response
– also, there is a part in T&C, that if I fail to pay fees, accounts are going to be cancelled – with that I am okay actually
So I am wondering about one thing – in case I will fail to pay fees, I am going to be processed somehow in Towah (from “court process” point of view), or I am actually a victim of system, and I should wait for what is going to happen (if something) ?
Curiosed,
Peter L.
If Towah is charging you for fees, e.g. monthly fees charged from a credit card or bank account, stop that transaction by contacting your bank or the credit card company.
If you have an online “My Account” or something similar, you can probably stop automatic payments from there. The same “Pay bills” section where you allowed for automatic charges should also offer you to disallow them.
Towah is in different types of trouble, but it’s still operating normally for SOME of the members.
If you stop paying monthly fee, you have effectively terminated the account. Towah can’t charge you for more than you already have paid.
Actually, there are no transactions to my account on Towah, nor transactions out to my bank, there is simply no money traffic.
Actually, I am monthly charged by this type of fee:
It is stated somewhere in T&C, that this will be fee if account is no active for more than 3 following months. Actually I have there 1.92 €, so I am wondering if I am going to fall to debt, since there are no 3€, or I will be charged by this amount and account will be cancelled ?
And as I said, I am not going to attempt to transfer money there, if plenty of people on Towah FB page are complaining about stucked transfers I/O.
Thank you,
Peter L.
So in the end! Does that make towah a scaming online bank or is it the companies reason for loosing money and blaming towah? And if towah is a scam how is mastercard still in a deal with towah O_o
It’s probably about BOTH. And BTW, Towah isn’t an online bank, it only pretends to be something similar.
When a payment service is designed to primarily serve people with “special needs”, e.g. people who can’t use normal banking services or short lived network marketing companies, it will eventually cause some trouble.
I didn’t find much trouble when I checked Towah’s reputation (in that type of market) in late 2009. It was mostly about peoples’ opinions about the owner, about the fact that he had been involved in WGI as a “World Leader”, and about the type of people he did business with.
Towah itself doesn’t have any agreement with MasterCard or VISA. It stated a banking license number belonging to Newcastle Building Society on its wesite when I checked it in 2009, the same company that is suing it now. That will allow it to sell debit cards as a merchant, but it will not allow it to handle any banking services (deposits, e-money, etc.).
Last time I checked (a year ago), Towah stated a banking license number belonging to IDS Financial Services Ltd, Gibraltar. Towah itself wasn’t registered for any types of financial services in UK (where it’s registered).
Towah is probably classified as a “merchant with sub merchants”. A merchant of that type CAN organize SOME parts of the payment process for other merchants, e.g. it can act as a gateway between a group of merchants and a bank. It will require SOFTWARE that can communicate with bank software.
When Liberty Reserve managed to operate a payment processor service, it shows that it isn’t that difficult.
Ok i understand! But something about short lived mlm companies? Now its dealing with wenyard, dont know if you have heard about it!
It sounds promissing, and actually it has a service which you can make money out of so you dont only nake money out of the recruiting! And the service was launched on the date it said it would! What do you think about wenyard then?
If it doesn’t sound promising, nobody would sign up, duh. 🙂
(BTW, Wenyard was already reviewed)
Oz wrote a review in early December 2013.
https://behindmlm.com/companies/wenyard-review-stock-market-trading-game/
Most of the rewards are paid out as stocks in a virtual stock market = worthless in the real world, but they can be sold internally to other members for something you potentially can withdraw as cash.
Wenyard had very little momentum after the first few weeks. Last time I checked (late December), they used some fake it till you make it marketing methods. I haven’t checked it in the last 3-4 weeks.
If you have any information, you can post it in the correct thread. Factual and neutral information will usually be of interest for other readers.
Just a reminder Towah was not paying out well before Biddify came along. We had no end of problems with them getting any money out.
Now it seems Towah has just got away with it, without explanation or consequences.
Re Bids. Buying Bids is like getting casino chips at the casino. You know what usually happens next.
Is there any chance of recovering cash from my TOWAH account?
Mr Harald Ekker was the owner of Towah Payment solution with Sitetalk.
Stole USD 14 ML from sitetalk members money was founder and owner of network marketing Wenyard, which was the biggest scam took place in Norway.
Now is in Germany make another Ponzi schema trap. If you know the location please tell me here.
It appears this is a dead issue and no governing agency to help return our funds and these guys don’t even go to jail?
If we find the scammer Harald Ekker we find the money.
I know Harald Ekker i am a victim to, is in Germany now make another trap for stupid believer like me.
Unfortunately, we don’t really know how many people believe in this scammers, he pretends to be a friend to make money in my back.
Make sense between Towah frode and Harald Ekker is hard only the follow investigation can make it clear. How Did We Get Into This Mess?
Like Pat Fanning say they must go to jail.