Pro Travel Plus Review: Seth Fraser & travel recruitment opp
There is no information on the Pro Travel Plus website indicating who owns or runs the business.
The Pro Travel Plus website domain (“protravelplus.com”) was registered on the 12th of January 2015, however the domain registration is set to private.
Further research reveals Seth Fraser credited as the CEO of the company. Why this information is not available on the Pro Travel Plus website is not clear.
Fraser’s past MLM ventures include Freebie Force (2007), That Free Thing (2011) and Uneeqlee (2013).
More recently Fraser (right) was credited as a “Field Leader” in Kannaway.
As per a Kannaway News blog post dated October 15th,
Seth Fraser: Why I Sold My Company and Joined Kannaway
I’ll admit it. I never really cared enough about a true “product-based” relationship marketing company to join one before.
And here’s a weird twist to the story:
I had *never* joined any relationship-marketing company as a distributor before.
One of the things that always held me back from joining ANY company as a distributor…….the trust factor.
When you’re no longer “the guy” that makes the decisions, one of the most difficult things to do is have faith and trust in the people you are working with side by side, and I wasn’t sure I would ever find a working environment that was suited to me for that reason.
Evidently those trust issued appear to have prevailed, with Fraser ditching Kannaway earlier this month.
When we were in our pre-launch phase, we had a very unique person fly in to town, a gentleman by the name of Seth Fraser.
He had launched a few different relationship marketing companies and had a strong team of leaders that came to the table with Kannaway.
After spending some time getting to know him, we made the decision to bring him in to our corporate team. The results of that decision helped us to create a strong team that has helped provide the BEST product line ever created to the masses!
We appreciate the efforts that Seth has provided toward creating this life-changing movement that is helping improve thousands of lives.
Seth has been offered a position as the CEO of another company and we wish him the best in his new venture.
That “other company” is of course Pro Travel Plus.
Interestingly enough who offered Fraser the position has not been publicly disclosed. Who owns the company remains a mystery.
Of note is that a recent Pro Travel Plus presentation was co-hosted by Fraser and Lee Friedman.
Friedman’s position within the company was not disclosed, but his name appears as the owner of the domain “ptpmember.com”.
This domain is used to provide services and bookings to affiliates through the Pro Travel Plus backoffice.
Earlier this year Friedman was promoting Nerium International on his Facebook profile. Whether or not he is still a Nerium affiliate is unclear.
Read on for a full review of the Pro Travel Plus MLM business opportunity.
The Pro Travel Plus Product Line
The Pro Travel Plus website details no marketable products or services, retail or otherwise.
A recent Pro Travel Plus “launch presentation”, hosted by Fraser and Friedman, provides some actual product related information:
What we’ve done is we’ve actually partnered to be able to offer to all of our Pro Travel Plus members, an exclusive opportunity to book condos worldwide.
What we’ve done is we’ve packaged a program that allows our members exclusive access to over sixty-two hundred resorts worldwide.
Other discounts shown in the presentation include airfares, cruises, hotels, rental cars, entertainment and “travel essentials”.
Other than bundling access to third-party discounts with affiliate membership, it’s unclear whether or not Pro Travel Plus actually sells anything itself.
The Pro Travel Plus Compensation Plan
Pro Travel Plus currently do not provide a copy of their compensation plan on their website.
The following analysis has been put together from various Pro Travel Plus affiliate presentations, citing compensation plan material available in the Pro Travel Plus affiliate backoffice.
Most of the Pro Travel Plus compensation plan revolves around recruiting new affiliates, with how much they spend dictating their earnings potential:
- 1 Star – $69.95 and $34.95 a month
- 2 Star – $269.90
- 3 Star – $469.90
Alternatively, 2 Star and 3 Star affiliate membership can also be earned via recruiting new affiliates:
- 2 Star – maintain at least 10 active affiliates in your downline
- 3 Star – maintain at least 100 active affiliates in your downline
Direct Recruitment Commissions
When new Pro Travel Plus affiliates are recruited, commissions are paid out to existing affiliates via a unilevel compensation structure.
A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate on the top of a unilevel
Commissions are paid out via a unilevel compensation structure, with every personally recruited affiliate placed on level
How much of a commission is paid out depends on how much a Pro Travel affiliate paid to join the company, or the size of their downline:
- 1 Star – $15 per affiliate recruited
- 2 Star – $25 per affiliate recruited and $5 per affiliate they recruit (level 2)
- 3 Star – $30 per affiliate recruited, $5 per affiliate they recruit (level 2) and $3 per affiliate recruited into level 3
Residual recruitment commissions are paid out via a “Powerline Bonus”.
This appears to be a straight-line queue commission, paid out of monthly affiliate fees.
How it works is not entirely clear, with Pro Travel Plus affiliates claiming everyone who joins after you is placed on level 1 of your powerline.
Here’s the official corporate marketing spiel on the powerline:
In fact, as people are placed below you in your team, YOU WILL GET PAID on a full five levels of members in your powerline REGARDLESS of who enrolled them!
That means as soon as someone in your powerline becomes a member, YOU EARN A COMMISSION!
The bonus pays out down five levels, but what those levels are is not clarified.
If it’s recruitment, then logically everyone who joins after you makes up level 1 of the unilevel, affiliates they recruit make up level 2 and so on.
Mathematically that makes little sense though, as everyone earning 3% on everyone who joins after them each month doesn’t work.
One affiliate’s monthly fees can only pay out 33 affiliates before them (at close to 100% of the fee being paid out as a commission), leaving the other four levels of the Powerline Bonus unexplained.
Pending further clarification of the Powerline Bonus, I’m putting it in the”doesn’t make sense” basket for now.
Residual Recruitment Commissions
Residual commissions in Pro Travel Plus are paid pays out of the ongoing monthly affiliate (irrespective of whether the fees are paid monthly, every six months or annually), via a 2×14 matrix compensation structure.
A 2×14 matrix places an affiliate at the top of a matrix, with two positions directly under them (level 1):
Those two positions branch out into another two positions each to make up the second level of the matrix. Level 2 positions branch out into another two positions to make up the third level, and so on and so forth down a total of fourteen levels.
Using this matrix structure, commissions is paid out based on how much a Pro Travel Plus affiliate spent on their own affiliate membership, or the size of their downline:
- 1 Star – 2% on levels 1 to 4, 2.5% on levels 5 to 8 and 3% on levels 9 and 10
- 2 Star – 2% on levels 1 to 4, 2.5% on levels 5 to 8 and 3% on levels 9 to 12
- 3 Star – 2% on levels 1 to 4, 2.5% on levels 5 to 8, 3% on levels 9 to 12 and 2% on levels 13 and 14
Matching Bonus (Matrix)
Matching bonuses are paid out on the matrix commissions earned by recruited affiliates, paid down six levels of recruitment.
How much of a matching bonus is paid out is primarily determined by how much an affiliate spends when they signed up, or the size of their downline:
- 1 Star – 15% match on level 1 (personally recruited affiliates)
- 2 Star – 25% on level 1, 10% on level 2 and 5% on level 3
- 3 Star – 30% on level 1, 15% on level 2, 5% on level 3, 3% on level 4 and 2% on level 5
- 3 Star Elite (maintain at least 500 active affiliates) – 50% on level 1, 15% on level 2, 5% on level 3, 3% on level 4 and 2% on levels 5 and 6
Joining Pro Travel Plus
There are three affiliate membership options for those looking to join Pro Travel Plus:
- 1 Star – $69.95 to join $34.95 a month
- 2 Star – $69.95 to join, $199.95 six months prepaid
- 3 Star – $69.95 to join, $399.95 twelve months prepaid
The primary difference between these options is income potential through the Pro Travel Plus compensation plan.
Conclusion
Pro Travel Plus continues the tradition of MLM travel-related opportunities having nothing to do with travel.
Commissions wise all that’s happening here is ongoing affiliate fees are being paid out as commissions. Any attached access to third-party travel related discounts can be ignored entirely.
This dependency on affiliate recruitment, with nothing being marketed to or sold to retail customers, qualifies Pro Travel Plus as a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
Given that affiliate fees also have an impact on earnings potential, there is also a strong “pay to play” element within the opportunity too. This element exists irrespective of whether or not the same ranks can be achieved via recruitment.
As with all recruitment-driven schemes, once affiliate recruitment dries up, those at the bottom will stop paying their fees.
When that happens, those above them stop earning commissions and eventually stop paying their fees too.
This means those above them stop getting paid, and as this effect trickles up the company-wide genealogy, eventually an irreversible collapse is triggered.
At that point anyone who has paid more in Pro Travel Plus affiliate fees then they’ve earned in commissions loses out. Statistically this is the vast majority of affiliates in a recruitment-driven MLM opportunity.
This has SCAM written all over it!
This Fraser joker and his little group of followers absolutely SUCK and will pimp anything for their next dollar!
I hope this collapses in Fraser’s scamming face and his little followers finally end up behind bars for pimping all of Fraser’s scams!
Scammerssuk,
Your allegations are quite serious. Especially because I am one that takes scams and taking advantage of Independent Reps very seriously.
Please repost your statement again and this time please reveal your name. Otherwise, no one will be able to take you seriously with your claims.
Sincerely,
Bret A. Matheny
MLM Ambassador
ANMP Board Member ~ 7 Years (Active)
TAMM Board Member ~ 2 Years (Active)
MLM Ambassador hey? Now you’re in some deep shit son.
No one ????
As in: not one person ????
Do you need a special permit to speak for everyone, or does being on boards give you super powers ??
you know ole lenny’s feelers are hurt over that one. LMAO!
Is that the same ANMP that supposedly had a fight about endorsing Zeek?
As far as I can see, Bret Matheny is a video producer, so you can’t ask him difficult questions like that. 🙂
More interesting questions you can ask him:
WHERE did they teach you that posting under full name will be essential in order to be believed by other people?
“Exactly WHAT did they tell you?”.
Perhaps Mr. Matheny could look at some of the previous companies Seth Frazer ran to try and understand why he’s held in the esteem he is here.
Perhaps it would be more productive if he took a look at Pro-Travel-Plus and if he doesn’t share the same concerns expressed in this article he could be so kind as to explain why those concerns are unfounded.
it’s definitely the sam TAMM that fellate each other and give themselves all kinds of good feelers awards.
My take,
1) Since I am a Video Producer, I lack the mental capabilities of knowing and assisting in protecting the image of our profession.
(Score: 1 to the unknown name with simpleton accusations)
2) We fought about ZEEK on the Board three years ago? No, not true, but we did have some mature conversations in how some of our Board Members mismanaged their support of the organization. We took aggressive action and learned from the experience.
(Score: 1 to the unknown character who uses a circumstance from three years ago, which by the way where the ANMP has had a complete leadership change since then).
3) I agree 100% I was wrong with my statement that “NO ONE” will take you seriously. Verbage 101, never use an absolute when attempting to make a point.
(Score: 1 to the individual with a fictitious name who actually speaks the truth about my comment)
4) @ GlimDropper: I find it fascinating that accusations are thrown about by fictitious names. If a mature conversation is to take place, then someone will be willing to stand behind their claims as an individual who can be identified.
What’s obvious here is if someone wanted to screw with someone’s reputation and credibility, all they would have to do is make up any name and throw the mud and hope it sticks. Where is the credibility behind that?
Oz, it’s a pleasure to meet you. I have heard good things about you from reputable people in the industry.
Bret
Bernard Madoff
Andy Bowdoin
Paul Burks
Gregory McKnight
Charles Ponzi
Your point being ???
Well that was a nice diversion. Can we get back to Pro Travel Plus now?
Mr. Matheny, sidetracks and screen names aside did you come here to defend Seth Fraser and Pro Travel Plus or not?
MLM companies with no (or almost no) retail sales to customers outside the comp plan move cash from one affiliate to another in a manner with no (or almost no) practical difference from a pyramid scheme.
So when we see a MLM company with a product set and comp plan which could still pay someone without selling anything to anyone (other than affiliate memberships) we comment on it.
Particularly when the person heading up the company has three or four previous “no need sell, just recruit” companies under their belt as Seth Fraser does.
You could rail against screen names or you could engage in an actual discussion. Just sayin.
Seth Fraser has been screwing people for a long time along with his band of merry ponzi pimping followers that somehow ALWAYS get the top positions in each and every one of Seth’s scams! I am not going to supply any more details for Mr Righteous Matheny
I have no idea where you got that “mental capabilities” idea from, but I believe anyway that we should try to bring this thread back to topic (Pro Travel Plus or Seth Fraser).
GlimDropper asked a relevant question “did you come here to defend Seth Fraser and Pro Travel Plus or not?”.
That question was more relevant than my two questions.
Someone has probably taught you that use of name is important for some reason, but they seem to have failed to explain it properly. I simply tried to get some more information about that.
@Bret A Matheny
When it comes to the use of real names versus nicknames, the important factor should normally be “Which method is most functional?”.
If you look around you in the posts here, you will find that most people use nicknames, and you will find that some people use their own names.
So we can probably let people decide for themselves which method they prefer to use, since both methods seem to work properly anyway.
It will be rather meaningless to change that existing practice.
From the article …
Here it is:
protravelplus.com/payPlan
protravelplus.com/ranks
It has been correctly identified in the review. People can BUY those “2 Star” and “3 Star” positions directly by paying for 6 or 12 months.
The only new factor is the “3 Star Elite”. It will only affect some Matching Bonuses.
The descriptions are crap, to be honest. On 2-star it says “must have a total of 10 active reps”, yet in the 1-star description it basically implied that 2-stars (and higher) can be bought.
Maybe they meant that UNLESS they buy a long-term membership they CANNOT advance beyond 1 star? In that case this would literally be a pay to play and rank-based-on-recruitment hybrid system.
Correct. But it becomes understandable if you look at Seth Fraser’s previous projects, e.g. That Free Thing. It “collapsed” (more or less) after 3 months when people had to pay renewal fees.
He know people will lose interest rather quickly. That’s why he’s trying to induce them to pay for 6 or 12 months right from the start.
“More profitable and more active”
* It will bring in more money ($199.95 for 6 months is more than 3 x $34.95 for 3 months, and $399.95 is much more).
* People will probably stay active a little longer (since they have paid for 6 or 12 months, they will be less eager to drop out). In TFT, most people quit when they had to pay renewal fees.
* If they don’t stay active for 6 or 12 months, it will look like they’re active anyway (e.g. there’s no unpaid renewal fees). The business will look more “profitable”.
“Designed for sale to a third party?”
* I’m pretty sure his intention is to sell the members to another company when the recruitment slows down, just like he did with TFT. TFT was sold to LifeSmart 360 when it had started to collapse.
* This time he has probably already found a buyer in the MLM Travel Club niche (before he started PTP). PTP was probably designed for sale to a third party right from the start.
I can back that up with other details …
INEXPENSIVE MLM SOFTWARE
The website seems to be based on inexpensive, standardized MLM software. I found all functions in a $179 software when I tried to google “network marketing software”. I didn’t find exactly the same software, but I found one with exactly the same functions but a different look.
NO PRODUCTS = NO INVESTMENTS / NO EXPENSES
The travel products come from a third party “partner”. PTP doesn’t have any products itself.
NO ADDITIONAL SERVICES = IT CAN EASILY BE TERMINATED
MLM software will typically offer services like “replicated, personalized websites” (among other services), to give people the feeling that they have received something of value in exchange for the money they have paid.
Services like that can’t easily be transferred to a new program. Additional services like that will only make it more difficult to sell PTP to a third party.
Services like that will usually be stored either as
* subdomains (e.g. username.protravelplus.com)
* or as “folders” (e.g. protravelplus.com/username/)
It will be cheaper to avoid additional services like that, i.e. it will reflect his personality.
HOW IT’S ORGANIZED
The search method “site:protravelplus.com” only shows 8 hits.
“site:ptpmember.com” gives 43 search hits, but most of them seem to be about deleted material from 2012 (6 months of updates of some type, deleted).
The active pages will require login.
Some examples:
CONCLUSION?
Pro Travel PLUS isn’t designed for any long term activity. It’s simply an online back office for members, with no real business functions (other than the back office functions).
These allegations are not true, its obvious this is another Network Marketer trying to bash another, How unprofessional.
Analysis of a compensation plan is not an “allegation”.
Are all of Fraser’s cronies dumbasses or just you? (how’s that for unprofessional?)
Nice review…first time here..looks like the pre-enrolls and first on board will make some money…but like any MLM w/out a real product when interest falls off so does the money…
Thank you, you saved me some money today..
Who died and assigned you ARBITER OF ALL THINGS TRUE (OR NOT)?
And, if a few of his facebook posts mean what I think they do, Mr. Matheny is also a Pro Travel Plus member.
Someone pointed out to me today that Charles Vest, former HempMeds PX employee and Kannaway field leader has left Kannaway and joined Seth in Pro Travel pyramid.
There is too much Kannaway back story to shoehorn into this topic but this did get me to check on a bunch of mid level Kannaway promoter’s facebook pages and it seems like a not in anyway insignificant number of them followed Seth at least on some sort of “plan B” basis.
Mr. Matheny, you are a board member of an association which claims to:
And you have dubbed yourself the “MLM Ambassador.” When you read these words (and you will) please confirm or deny that you are a Pro Travel Plus member and if you are please tell us why you think this isn’t a pyramid scheme.
You are after all a true Network Marketing Professional with all that implies. What I’m wondering is, in your case, what exactly does that imply?
I’ve been looking for some information about this company as I have been given a deadline to join tonight.
Thank you M_Norway for doing so much research. I definitely won’t be throwing money away on yet another scheme.
A company that won’t reveal who they are, with no products? Clearly people are desperate to just earn some quick cash at another’s misfortune.
I do MLM but not this way. Loved Oz comment to Monique!
Any company using a google voice number verse a published number with someone on the other end is sketchy at its best (858)218-6540.
How many more times Is launch going to be post phoned and why is travel port link viable
Google their phone number and you get 311 W. 3rd St. Carson City, NV 89703 as corporate address.
3 bedroom 1 bath box house. Thank you Google street view.
So uh, Pro Travel Plus just went Ponzi:
“Company monthly profit” = affiliate membership fees.
Paging Bret “MLM Ambassador” Methany for comment. Do the ANMP approve these sorts of business models?
Excluding the income opportunity, what else do you get for your monthly contribution?
I have been offered this opportunity and thankfully will not join but I am interested to know what you get for your membership fee.
Access to third party discounts, which of course is not an actual product or service in and of itself.
Interesting read. While I cannot positively say PTP is a scam I can without any hesitation say Charles Vest and his buddy Seth are liars.
Yes 110% LIARS back by undeniable proof! Or at least the AG says such.
They lied to get me to join which subsequently led me to lie to family and friends to gain their participation. Additionally, Charles Vest’s moral character is without question very “loose”.
Charles, if you are reading this you know whose writing it.
Even though I think you are a worthless piece of shit and would welcome an opportunity to catch you in a back alley I offered you an out that wouldn’t tarnish the company and you but mostly to avoid problems it will cause for your wife and kids.
You were arrogant enough to test my reach. This is just the very basic little baby step. You should’ve taken the buyout request you worthless coward.
Just so you know…I’m coming after PTP, your practices and yours and Seth’s personal reputations.
So, that team of Attorney’s you say you have (what a joke you coward)…. let’s see how good your make believe Attorneys really are…soon.
Oh yea… little ole me I only have 1 Attorney so hopefully my connection to the AG will help little ole me.
Here’s the title you should use:
Charles Vest
Liar in his professional life.
Cheater in his personal life.
NOT a true founder of PTP.
Should’ve taken the fair offer lard ass… go stuff your face with some donuts in your fat nervous frenzy after reading this.
Me again!!!
I forgot to mention the recording I have with Charles Vest and his founder buddy saying the did in fact lie…AND….the can, have and will manipulate the positions for family and friends and mine to make more money (basically trying to buy my silence). Mind you guys I’m one of first 15 or so to join PTP.
Help me bring Charles Vest and his lying organization to the attention of every AG in the USA.
Stay tune for more….
Seth Fraser’s opportunities generally score low on the harmfulness scale, if we compare them to many other opportunities.
M_Norway… the score on the “harmfulness scale” should be zero for any business. I own several and the harmfulness scale never even comes up in any conversations.
You need to rethink “generally accepted business practices”… there is no such thing as a “harmfulness scale”.
The fact that one describes a business according to such a ridiculous scoring system is NOT good for the business or individual in charge.
Thank you for unintentionally supporting my view of the liars, cheaters (Ozedit: Offtopic) and overall cowards. Next??!!!!
pro travel plus has shitty website, no mention of the management or compensation plan, sells third party products of some unnamed travel company, and have recently gone ponzi according to post#29.
so, what was going down on may 15, 2015?
troy dooly was posing with charles vest and todd falcon:
so why is troy dooly hanging out with charles vest/todd falcone and pro travel plus, which is clearly a recruitment based pyramid scheme? is todd falcone the founder of pro travel plus?
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205587190552200&set=a.1732756651834.91780.1626062036&type=1&theater
Pretty sure it was an ANMP convention. Lots of MLMers with lots of pictures of each other on lots of timelines. I wouldn’t read much into it.
yes, your’e right it was the ANMP convention at the intercontinental dallas, texas.
i got the photo off charles vest’s FB page which did not mention it was at the ANMP.
this is what charles vest posted on may 20th, 2015:
according to FB posts when seth frazer left kannaway he carried a lot of reps from there, to pro travel plus.
here’s the answer guys, this is why bret MLMambassador methany, isn’t showing up to answer questions:
um, he is the MLM consultant of pro travel plus? and according to oz in post #29, PTP has taken on a ponzi avatar.
is this what bret MLMambassador methany brought back from the ANMP convention he attended in mid may !!??
That Kannaway situation is a little interesting.
Charles Vest worked for the HempMeds subsidiary of Medical Marijuana Inc. (MJNA) before working for Kannaway. HempMeds sold Kannaway their CBD oil and may well have been acting as their product formulators (or at least as middle men).
Kannaway has been a tumble weed town for quite some time, I saw some documents which indicate that last year’s holiday promotions (separate from normal auotships) likely accounted for not much more than $10K in sales.
When Fraser left he did take a significant chunk of what was left of the fields with him to PTP, if only on a “plan b” basis. As of today the last post in the Kannaway private facebook group was made on April 12th.
Does this mean that Kannaway is dead? I don’t think so.
The original owners of Kannaway was a company named General Hemp which is basically a shell for Micheal Llamas and Stewart Titus.
Llamas directly and through other shells owns more shares of MJNA than anyone else and would be CEO except he’s facing criminal fraud charges in California. Titus was recently added to MJNA’s board of directors.
Late last year General Hemp sold Kannaway to MJNA for one hundred million dollars worth of MJNA stock.
That number of shares was almost enough to double the number of shares outstanding and all to purchase an on life support MLM company which lost almost $100K last year and who’s revenues have been declining since July of last year.
But if Kannaway is allowed to die of natural causes I can see a very strong argument for a share holder class action lawsuit.
Llamas and Titus (and Michelle Sides) functionally control MJNA’s corporate decision making and gifted themselves almost 900 millions shares of stock in exchange for a near worthless MLM company.
There are some “priority criteria” for the agencies or regulators. “Harmfulness to the consumers in general” will be one of those criteria, i.e. they can’t waste resources on unimportant cases. They will need to make independent decisions, they can’t simply respond to each and every opinion.
We will need to look at that reality. We can’t invent a different reality.
PTP is probably a “pretend to be bigger than you are opportunity”, a low budget travel club based recruitment opportunity. It will most likely not be very successful, and it will probably be sold before any agency will have had the time to investigate it properly.
PTP doesn’t match the definition of a Ponzi? It’s more similar to a pyramid scheme.
Those profit pool shares are closely related to recruitment of other participants. They’re not related to investments of money, or to reinvestments of virtual profit.
Ponzi schemes will pay > 100% ROI based on people’s own investments and reinvestments, e.g. “you don’t need to recruit anyone or sell anything, you will earn a profit anyway”.
The profit pool shares described in the announcement is simply an additional recruitment reward incentive.
They have probably felt it necessary to add some additional rewards. The original compensation plan simply wasn’t very “exciting” or “attractive”.
• Bret A Matheny – you should be ashamed of yourself throwing your letters around while consorting with …. And on top of it Joining PTP.
• Monique what makes you so sure any allegations are not true? Are you so certain the allegations are not because you joined and don’t want to believe it , where is your proof they are not true? I would say that your statement without proof would be very unprofessional.
• PTP Travel deals are not deals? The Seth Fraser Travel Portal launch.. His random searches for the Travel Deals were rehearsed and not random. There maybe some deals but not nearly as many as implied.
I searched several travel deals and every time PTP price came up as more expensive with the exception of Condo’s but why rent a condo and pay plane fare plus food and beverages when you can get all inclusive packages at 1/4 of the price.
500 Travel Rewards, scam – all they appear to be are supposed discounts. You do not get to use the Travel Rewards the way you would like…
As implied. The supposed discounts on all the rest would appear to be a glorified Groupon type deal.
• Official Spiel on the Powerline: In fact, as people are placed below you in your team, YOU WILL GET PAID on a full five levels of members in your powerline REGARDLESS of who enrolled them!
• That means as soon as someone in your powerline becomes a member, YOU EARN A COMMISSION!
You are not paid a full five levels of members in your powerline, you are paid a total of $5.25 for 5 members in your powerline. Ha ha yup 5 bucks! Very misleading
• M_Norway – hard to tell which side of the fence you lean on – you seem to be caught between the devil and the deep blue sea …..
M_Norway…thank you for the comedy of your responses.
Actually your content is worthless…that’s not where the comedy comes from. The comedy comes from your wanting to add something substantial and a bit of wanting to be the voice of reason but the only thing that is evident is you do not respond to the actual allegations.
Here is some help for you…
Your remark about the AG’s office…shut up! “Priority criteria”…the quotations you used in this context mean you are quoting the AG’s office.
No such verbiage…seems you might be challenged by the truth as is Vest and friends.
Here you go let me help you… texasattorneygeneral.gov/cpd/what-to-do-if-you-have-a-consumer-complaint.
(BTW – where does ones personal connection to the AG’s office rank on your whatever scale?)
You want to respond and want respect then you have 2 routes…shut and bow out or remark to the following which you are avoiding…
You’ve never remarked about them lying to me to gain participation?
You’ve never remarked to the manipulation of positioning I’ve accused them of saying?
You’ve never remarked about to them trying to buy my silence?
You’ve never remarked on the proof I have or even asked what it is?
You my friend are sticking your nose into something you know nothing about nor know or care about the impact of the lies told.
Do you know how many people I lied to as a result of the lies told to me? Do you know how much money I brought to PTP based on the same lies?
No you don’t because you have not asked. Inside you know exactly your selfish mission of being heard and not the content of what is occurring.
As to the family I live by this…you F with my family and it’s no holds barred.
You are not my moral barometer and I guarantee have not given or helped strangers anonymously anywhere close to me if at all.
(Ozedit: Offtopic, do not repost.)
This one is especially for you M_Norway… Listen/read to understand and not to just respond.
If you have any other opinion then you’re free to post it.
I have posted these points:
1. Seth Fraser’s opportunities have generally not been very harmful. People feel cheated, but their financial losses have generally been low compared to other opportunities.
2. Agencies will need to use a priority list. They don’t have unlimited resources, and they must use those resources where it will be most useful.
3. PTP doesn’t match the definitions of a Ponzi scheme. It’s more similar to a pyramid scheme (e.g. it will fail the Howey test criterion for “little or no efforts”).
4. PTP will most likely be sold / close down before anyone will have time to investigate it properly.
Most of your “comedy” comment seemed to focus on something else?
You should normally have pointed out that Seth Fraser’s opportunities generally are extremely harmful, agencies have unlimited resources and they don’t use any priority lists, PTP matches the definition of a Ponzi scheme exactly, and PTP will be extremely long lived and continue to cheat people for a very long time.
Absolutely correct. I haven’t posted anything about that.
It may belong in a personal complaint, but we will normally focus on the opportunity or scheme as a whole. So I had the correct focus in my comments. You can of course try to dispute that?
We can compare that to ZeekRewards, whether PTP’s profit pool shares will match a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.
ZeekRewards had both components.
1. A recruitment based reward system (“the Matrix”). Secondary component, most payments in and out of the system were related to other parts than this one.
2. An investment based system (“the Retail Profit Pool”). Primary component, most payments in and out of the system were related to this component.
The Matrix was based on monthly subscription fees ($10 Silver, $50 Gold, $99 Platinum). PTP’s “profit shares” are based on exactly the same type of payment as the Matrix, a $34.95 monthly subscription fee.
PTP’S PROFIT SHARING
* It isn’t marketed as an investment. It’s very clearly marketed as a recruitment reward.
* It doesn’t have any typical “passive investment” function. It could have been different if people could “invest” in multiple positions in a matrix.
When something doesn’t quack like a duck and doesn’t walk like a duck then it probably isn’t a duck.
I’m not leaning on any side of any fence. I didn’t even know there was a fence here people should lean on. The focus here (on this website) is normally on factual information.
So if you’re looking for people leaning on a fence, then you won’t find me there. 🙂
M_Norway…again nothing about lying….hmmm…maybe it’s because you condone the lying.
Whatever the case maybe with that and the other stuff you fail to acknowledge. You are talking in circles. No need to continue any conversations with that leave of ignorance. I’m done with you.
To everyone else who wants to know more…stay tuned here and other places on the internet for the truth and proof of the ways of these fools.
Thanks all.
Tex, may I submit you might be reading M_Norway the wrong way.
I agree with him that the 1% profit pool thing isn’t a ponzi, it’s just a piss poor addition to Pro Travel Plus’s pyramid payout scheme. Which isn’t to say that I don’t understand why Oz assumed it carried a ponzi like aspect.
You see, we don’t march in lock step. Conformity isn’t a requirement. If you don’t think someone is doing it the right way, point it out to them sure but don’t waste time mired in argument about it, go out and do it the way you think is right.
Scams like Pro Travel Plus will be defeated by their own malfeasance and mathematical unsustainability. We can add to the sum total of warnings against it and you’re welcome to help.
It doesn’t hurt that we can add “distinguished” ANMP member Bret “MLM Ambassador” Matheny to Seth Fraser’s rouges gallery of part time pyramid players. This company wont last to the new year yet it’s still an important addition to Matheny’s resume.
The ANMP and DSA hold prayer meetings to industry accountability yet never task themselves check who’s pockets their members are picking.
The people worth arguing with are the “three monkeys” schoolmarms of MLM self regulation. They are the ones who can’t seem to summon up any indignation over all the “reps in the field” victims that schemes like PtP are creating, as we speak.
I haven’t even looked into that part. It seemed to be about something personal. And I have already covered it in post #45.
I had the correct focus when I focused on PTP as a whole.
There hasn’t been any disputes about it either.
Then we’re done. You didn’t respond to any of my points, and I didn’t respond to any of yours.
I believe it will be more effective to identify it as a “junk program” rather than as a harmful one, “a program where people will lose interest rather quickly” (if they don’t have some very specific interests, e.g. people married to Seth Fraser should probably see it as “God’s Gift to the World”).
We will need to see PTP in context with the other programs reviewed here, rather than in context with what some individuals may feel about it.
So I believe I have identified it quite correctly (as some type of “Seth Fraser’s personal downline builder”, based on standard inexpensive MLM software).
This is something I will disagree about. Compared to TelexFree (1.8 billion), uFun (1.2 billion and counting) or Zeek Rewards (bit under $900 million) will Pro Travel Plus be “Harmful”?
I guess that gets down to who’s time and money you’re talking about now doesn’t it.
Pro Travel Plus is a pyramid, not ponzi scheme. Looks like about $400/year (depending on how rigorous PtP is in enforcing a one account per person policy) is about all most people stand to lose here.
So yea, Pro Travel Plus is less harmful than some of the bizz opps that are even worse than they are.
What pisses me off is that Seth Fraser is a repeat offender at running this exact type of scam, we are just a few months away from him making a final cashout by selling the mailing list to someone every bit as greedy and seedy as he is before closing up shop and starting over.
I’ve been building my own list of former mid level Kannaway field leaders who at least in part jumped ship for Seth’s quick hit cash grab. All of these aspiring “servant leaders” are feeding their downline into a meat grinder and none of them have any excuse not to know it.
Oh wait, they DO have an excuse. Bret “MLM Ambassador 7 Year ANMP Board Member” Matheny is consulting for this company. Surely HE wouldn’t sign off on a company as douchey as we think Pro Travel Plus is.
History will in fact show, even if Mr. Matheny doesn’t have the guts to.
I was primarily talking about financial losses, “harmfulness to consumers”. PTP will not cause the same degree of harm as many other programs we have reviewed here.
It may cause some emotional harm, e.g. people feeling cheated or people feeling they have wasted time on something.
My comment was primarily about PTP. I see it as “junk” more than as a “serious threat to consumers”.
Experienced ones looking at the compensation plan may see it in a similar way, e.g. if they calculate some payouts. So I have tried to cover how people might see it if they’re looking for something to join.
Seth Fraser’s programs usually don’t pay out much, they will only trick people to believe so.
The program pays out a one time $30 recruitment commission on the $69.95 membership fee. The rest is mostly about “peanuts”, but presented so it might look more attractive than it really is.
People must have several thousand people in downline to make a living out of it.
what is the ‘out’ you offered charles vest, that he did not take you up on? was it a ‘refund’or ‘settlement money’?
if charles vest had obliged you on your offered ‘out’ would that have calmed your obvious anger, and let PTP carry on with their ponzi/pyramid scheme?
you’re letting your anger spill over to norway, who is just stating a factual position without responding to your ’emotional anger’. the thing is, ponzi/pyramid schemes and their cheating ways are daily bread here, and don’t evoke an emotional response from ‘old hands’.
but, do keep your anger alive, it will help you expose PTP for the hucksters they are. i hope you bust their ass. do keep us posted!
In That Free Thing, non income opportunity seekers generally felt they got some value for their money ($25 membership fee, 3 x $9.95 monthly fee). But 3 months was more than enough, people lost interest long before that.
The ones who felt cheated were the local top recruiters and local leaders. They felt they didn’t get paid for their work long term (residual).
TFT simply didn’t pay out much (other than the initial $10 recruitment commission). It felt more like a “poorly paid short term J-O-B” than a long term opportunity.
I actually made several jokes about the incomes in the local pyramid scheme forum.
TFT collapsed locally in Norway after only 3 months, with about 1,500 local members total.
That Free Thing would most likely have passed the legality test in Norway. The Norwegian authority Lotteritilsynet would probably have seen it as “too unimportant” (payments were too low, reasonable doubts about consumer value).
Residual income example for TFT March 2011 (matching bonus included):
People will usually accept low amounts the first month. $250 recruitment commission plus $131 residual commission can be acceptable enough in a starting month.
Comparing TFT and PTP:
– – – – – –
One time membership fee $25 / $70 = increased 2.8 times
One time recruitment commission $10 / $30 = increased 3 times
– – – – – –
Monthly fee $10 / $35 = increased 3.5 times
Monthly residual commission = relatively unchanged ?
– – – – – –
Yearly cost (calculated) $145 / $470 = increased 3.2 times
– – – – – –
My prediction is that members will lose interest rather quickly. The one year prepaid subscription fee will disguise the fact that there actually will be a member flee after a few months.
People will need to have 30 – 40 members in downline to cover their own monthly $35 subscription fee.
Thankfully I was able to read through all of the insults and find some accuracy and answers about PTP. I have many Facebook friends who are promoting this, and I genuinely hope it works out for them.
One other thing I would like to add about how PTP is being promoted is that you can earn $2000 to $25,000 a month without recruiting. This is sucking people in like crazy…
No doubt travel is an extremely lucrative industry, and I am grateful I am part of a travel company that is founded on integrity and experience.
Thanks for the insight because I was almost among the ones who got sucked in!
That’s not true?
You should ask ONE question = “What is the max amount I can earn per month from the Powerline Bonus?”
It only promises “straight line, 5 levels deep”. Normally that means 5 people, that you can earn $1.05 * 5 = $5.25 per month ($63 for 12 months), if 5 people join PTP after you have joined it.
All the other commissions are recruitment based. They don’t pay out much money they either, you must have a huge downline to make a living.
Sadly that is how they are marketing this. “$2000 a month with no recruiting!”
I pre enrolled this morning to find out more, and was almost tempted by my 35 paid members and 900+ pre enrollees…
Once again, I’m glad I found the truth to this. Thanks for all the info.
I have looked at this video presentation (link disabled):
youtube.com/watch?v=vCoysJyeOUM
Produced by Cindy Buchanan / uploaded by Glenn Brooks.
[1:35] She’s rather vague in her explanation of the Powerline Bonus, but I’m pretty sure it only pays out $5.25 per month.
[6:10] The second way to earn money without recruiting will be from spillovers from upline in the binary matrix.
THE MATRIX (using a spreadsheet)
Level | People | People total | $ Payout | $ Payout total
1______2______2_________1.40________1.402______4______6_________2.80________4.20
3______8_____14_________5.60________9.80
4_____16_____30________11.20_______21.00
5_____32_____62________28.00_______49.00
6_____64____126________56.00______105.00
7____128____254_______112.00______217.00
8____256____510_______224.00______441.00
9____512___1022_______537.60______978.60
10__1024___2046_____1,075.20____2,053.80
11__2048___4094_____2,150.40____4,204.20
12__4096___8192_____4,300.80____8,505.00
13__8192__16382_____5,734.40___14,239.40
14_16384__32766____11,468.80___25,708.20
– – – –
30 people in downline will give a monthly residual income of $21.
126 people in downline will give a monthly residual income of $105.
510 people in downline will give a monthly residual income of $441.
1022 people in downline will give a monthly residual income of $978.60.
according to linkedin lee friedman is a Broker Associate at Keller Williams Commercial.
he is promoting PTP as:
^^^ doesn’t sound like the owner.
meanwhile today this is how seth fraser and charles vest have announced themselves:
i think seth fraser has launched PTP??
“Look How this company in Exploding!” is probably based on similar numbers as the ones presented by Jenna = “35 paid members and 900+ pre enrollees” = only 1 out of 30 is a real paying member.
“Look How many have joined after me!” is partly based on all those “top positions” he has pre registered himself, which he later can sell to others (like he’s trying to do now). Others do the same, so there’s a lot of empty “top positions” in PTP.
In Rippln, only 1 out of 200 pre enrollees became paying members, 6,000 members out of 1.3 million pre enrollees. Most pre enrollees were fake. But Rippln is a different type of story, people lost interest because of many delays.
“I have 1 Top spot left you need to email me ASAP” will make sure that the most impulsive ones will react and sign up without asking any questions.
“You can earn up to $25K with no recruiting!” will attract some people, while others will stay away.
People will actually receive some minor payouts without recruitment. The monthly membership fee has probably been calculated exactly for that purpose, to make PTP look nicer in marketing. “Everyone earned some money, it wasn’t only the top few”.
The problem is that when people are talking about “earning money”, they’re not talking about having a fraction of their own payments refunded each month. That’s more similar to a discount than to “earning money”. Half of the people will experience that situation.
I have looked at the Alexa rank for protravelplus.com. It isn’t exactly “exploding”, but the Global rank currently is around 30-35,000 (“decent enough”). It has been on that level the last 14 days = it grew initially , but slowed down rather immediately.
My guess is that we will see yet another pre-launch within 6 months, or a partnership or some other changes (something to create new momentum).
The IDEA here had some “interesting factors”, e.g. the $5.25 “powerline bonus” to all members was “interesting” (some people will accept it, some people will feel pissed).
The term “interesting” was used because it can have both positive and negative effects. People will fall for “lock your position now” and “everyone will make money, they won’t need to recruit anyone or sell anything”. So it does have a function in the initial momentum.
This is the biggest SCAM of 2015! I was stupid enough to join this steaming pile of feces based on the no recruitment claims.
Even though I did promote heavy and had a couple of people sign up, it does not have the momentum this Psycho MLM Scam Circus claims it has.
One guy is even using his mom to promote this pile of crap.
Seth Fraser doesn’t even list himself and the partners on this powerline scam. They know they are running a thinly disguised Ponzi scheme that could send them straight to jail.
The travel deals aren’t that great of deal with exception of the one they promote heavy. My worst nightmare of a vacation would be spending it with 400 of these brainless morons.
There was a guy a few years ago using this same powerline scam that did end up going to jail. People are sucked in by hundreds of people signing up and then you are told if you get in ahead of them, they will be in your downline.
I’d like the AG to take a look at the mechanics of their back office to see if this is indeed true. T
here are some good network marketing companies out there but this isn’t it. Don’t get sucked into spending $400 or even the minimum monthly payment! You will regret it!
“People will fall for it”.
You can’t expect to make much money here if you don’t recruit anyone. You will only get some of your own money back, $5.25 per month.
The people who falled for the marketing are probably quite normal people.
The ones making money here are probably part of an “inner circle” of experienced people.
From my understanding of it, the powerline bonus will pay out 5 × $1.05 = $5.25 a month residual commission to almost ALL members = $63 for 12 months.
“Straight line, 5 levels deep” should normally mean 1+1+1+1+1=5
“Binary, 5 levels deep” should normally mean 2+4+8+16+32=62 positions
“Matrix 3×5” should normally mean 3+9+27+81+243=363 positions
@John
The one guy using his mom to promote is Austin Zulauf, a well known MLM Junkie.
Kannaway must not be working out too well for these guys.
What a joke.. and this seth frasier guy looks like a damn clown. Its just another PYRAMID SCHEME!
When i tried to ask for more info, and how it really works, they sent me to some bogus video of some cindy girl who does NOT EVEN EXPLAIN IT!!
Don’t fall for this, you will not be making any money. The “discounts” are really not even discounts.
Do Seth and Charles not care that they are going to jail? Is this really worth it to them? It’s all going to blow up in their face.
They think they have all their bases covered. But they left 1 stone unturned. Can you guess what it is?
They are in TROUBLE,And I will be the first one in the courtroom. Finally, The end to their MLM scam careers.
They’re all in Dallas TX right now at a PTP pep rally according to Austin Zulauf’s Facebook Timeline.
They are doing damage control.
Protravelplus dot com’s Alexa numbers are trending downward again. The interesting thing is that 20.3% of their web traffic comes from Kazakhstan.
Now Alexa doesn’t track total site view numbers, they track traffic from computers equipped with their browser plugin and then estimate total numbers based on that.
There is a small problem with that methodology.
If you find a country with enough internet access and a low enough standard of living you can literally pay people to sit in an internet cafe and copy and past URLs into a browser from a list and artificially inflate Alexa numbers for a modest fee.
I mean there really isn’t any way to prove Pro Travel Plus is paying to inflate their web stats but ask yourselves if you think Seth and Charles are too ethical to stoop to something like that?
Then ask your self if there’s another good reason why their website would be the 621st highest rated website in Kazakhstan?
Donald Trump has a huge number of “Likes” and followers from the Phillippines, Mexico, Malaysia, etc., from so called “clickfarm countries”. But he truly believes in ideas like that. 🙂
Pro Travel Plus may have found a market there? “Something in the idea is speaking directly to the soul of the Kazakhstanian people”? 🙂
Here’s the “Kazakhstan” Alexa ranking, showing that ProTravelPlus.com’s popularity in Kazakhstan is rapidly growing.
* Up from 20.3% to 21.7% in 24 hours.
* Up from 621st place to 553rd place in 24 hours (up 68 places).
ProTravelPlus is still very popular in Kazakhstan, but slowing down a little. 🙂
* Up from 21.7% to 23.0%
* Up from place 553 to place 516 (up 37 places)
The MLM Junkies are convinced that Multi-millionaires will be made:
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207355312349135&set=a.1861569587072.2110307.1475913659&type=1&theater
He probably believes in “Talk it into existence” ideas, “if you focus strongly on something then you can make it happen“ (or something similar).
It’s partly true, mindset can probably affect results. That may be the reason for why ProTravelPlus almost immediately lost its momentum. 🙂
Austin Zulauf will probably find a new “THE vehicle” within a couple of months, where he “WILL grow a team of 100,000+ members within 12 months”.
He’s right about one thing. “NO ONE has any idea of the MAJOR impact he and his partners are about to make on the world!”. I have absolutely no idea. 🙂
Here’s a few of the comments there …
They are clearly affected by something there. 🙂
“Think – Act – Do” sounds like some type of selfdev idea.
“Just WAIT til u see their faces …”. He has probably visualized some imaginary enemies there, e.g. “how shocked they will be when they discover his true genius, how easy it was for him to overcome the temporary lack of momentum”.
ProTravelPlus seems to have run out of “high octane fuel”. 🙂
That’s one plausible explanation for the “Multi-millionaires” speech. Austin Zulauf is probably trying to add some new fuel, focusing directly on “current motivation” via “pep-talks” (to make people feel more excited and enthusiastic about the opportunity).
“TFT Syndrome”?
They have probably experienced the “That Free Thing syndrome”, the disappointment people feel when they see the reality of their own paychecks (e.g. the $5.25 Oneline Bonus, or the $21 for 30 people in downline).
TFT lost momentum because of the paychecks. They didn’t reflect people’s expectations. People simply hated being brought back to reality / having other people making jokes about it.
“Higher fall height”?
I would most likely have used the opposite strategy. He’s creating a much higher “fall height” when he’s trying to make people feel excited about future results (not yet produced, not very likely to be produced). I would more likely have tried to reduce that feeling of excitement.
The paychecks in ProTravelPlus will never reflect the expectations people initially had. People have simply misled themselves.
Someone suckered me into this one because the way they LIE, I mean promote it, I ONLY joined because, No recruiting required. LIE LIE LIE.
From the moment I got in, all your hear and see is RECRUIT. I put in work, and still make less than the 5.25 PL Bonus on my matrix. JOKE.
I’m disgusted lying now when trying to recruit, I just quit recruiting.
How can you sucker anyone in, if you have NOTHING to show them after months, to get them enticed. Even the big recruiters paychecks are small, when you think the would be huge.
THE TOP MLM veterans are the only ones making money. Austin is one of them because Charles and Seth set him up with his position.
They are pushing the mlm vets to paint a Positive Picture about PTP. Hyping it up because they lost almost half of the paid members.
Joel constantly shows his back office and how many enrollees he has. What he does not show is the LOSS of almost half his team and the numbers are showing new ones he suckered in, to REPLACE all the ones he lost.
He is just spinning his wheels, back to square one,making up loss, not getting ahead.
They want to say business is Booming , people are joining left and right. The word and truth is out now.
They are all trying to save face. The top leaders were called in by Seth in a desperate plea to say and do whatever they can to keep members, and get new ones.
We’ll train you, you won’t be alone.Your income growing will be the only thing, left alone and empty.
Can’t even promote the Travel Portal because it SUCKS SO BAD. No good deals. You an google deals for the same amount for free.
Correct. The direct recruitment bonus ($30) is fair enough, so people will usually make some money initially if they manage to bring in other people. But the residual income really sucks for most people.
People THINK “This will be huge! We won’t need to recruit anyone or sell anything”.
The ones making money here are all part of an “Inner Circle”, people he have known for years through the other programs (TFT, etc.).
They know how these programs work and which sales pitches people will fall for. You must first become a part of that group before you can make real money.
Relatively unchanged popularity in Kazakhstan, but reduced popularity in the U.S.? 🙂
And Russia seems to be “up and coming”.
Alexa ranking:
It’s probably 4 days since I checked the rankings.
* Russia +1.3%, increased popularity (-5,198 local rank)
* Australia +0.6%, increased popularity (-390)
* Kazakhstan +0.2, slightly reduced popularity (+6)
* United Kingdom -0.3%, slightly reduced popularity (+117)
* United States -1.3%, reduced popularity (+1,220)
Note that Alexa ranking is about the website’s popularity, it’s not about Seth Fraser’s personal popularity. It only looks like that, e.g. “the longer the distance the more people seem to accept him or it”.
The reduced popularity in the United States may be related to those “mindset ideas” mentioned just recently. 🙂
The website DID actually get more visits from Russia, but it doesn’t seem like he has DONE anything (in that #CRAZY! weekend).
I may have misunderstood the “next weekend” idea. It may simply be a “mañana method” (“we fix it today, or tomorrow, or maybe next Thursday, or definitely before Christmas!“)
Looks like Austin Zulauf is trying to fix the damage. On the training call he sounded programmed. He did not even want to be on the call. Anyone else feel that?
He was Careful to let people know you should recruit to make money. They know people are no longer standing for their hyped sales pitches that were misleading.
I also know that he and Joel S are in a battle with other mlm leaders. Joel, wants sobad to show his rivals they are doing good in this company.
Everyday he constantly shoves in peoples faces what he is making and how many he recruited. Not caring about his team. Just himself,and flashing his money.
Austin put all his eggs in one basket, gave up everything on Seth’s promises to him when he placed him in a “special” role. So he refuses to lose, and will make this company with Seth work at any cost.
I haven’t listened to any calls. I don’t follow Austin Zulauf as a person, he just popped up randomly in a post here.
I tried to check the “MAJOR impact my partners and I are about to make on the world!” results, but I didn’t really find any results I could identify as that.
That’s the problem with “marketing tricks”. They work for a very short period of time, but after that they may have the opposite effect.
Pro Travel Plus was primarily based on marketing tricks. It worked exactly as they could have expected it to work = for a very short time.
Life doesn’t work that way. We can’t “refuse to lose”. All we can do is to refuse to give up, “demand ourselves to do something about a situation”.
And we can of course produce motivational speeches too, “recruit, recruit, RECRUIT!”. That really helps keeping up motivation. Blaming others will also work, it always feels good if we can blame other people for a failure. 🙂
The only way to make PTP work will be to “add some value” somewhere in the system, something people genuinely can be interested in.
* If “discounted vacation offers” didn’t work then they will need to improve it or add something to it, or make it feel more attractive than it currently does.
He will need to change his own ideas first before he can make it “work”. It obviously won’t work as an income opportunity (for more than a few) based on the current concept.
He will need to check whether it CAN WORK first before he can decide to MAKE IT WORK. We can’t fight against the reality, the reality will always win fights like that in the long run.
If it can’t work as an income opportunity (for more than a few), then they shouldn’t pretend it can work either.
I would more likely have tried to protect the income already earned from chargebacks or complaints, before I had produced “motivational speeches”.
DISSATISFIED 3 STAR MEMBERS
As a dissatisfied 3 Star member, I would probably have requested a full or a partial refund based on “dissatisfaction with the product or service” (be specific about it). It’s easier to get and more difficult to dispute a partial refund, e.g. 10 months × $34.95 = $349.50 (or $399.50 × 10/12 = $332.90).
“MUCH BIGGER THREAT”
Dissatisfied members will be a much bigger threat to his income than the “current lack of growth”.
We can’t ignore threats like that, “pretend they don’t exist”. Potential threats are just as real as potential income, they may materialize and become real.
Saw this in one of the PTP Groups:
(5.25 not free, you paid for it with your membership fee)
(choose to do something, yea recruit like a mad man)
BRAVO Jesus Rosario. The 1st one with guts to tell the truth within the brainwashed cult.
Everyone in that group just sucks up like idiots saying sappy positive stuff, when they know it’s bull. Trying to stay motivated and hoping.
They same handful of suckups not making money but trying to impress the leaders by showing they are so positive, and going to work at it and try harder. ( Puke)
Everybody on his team did make money, majority $5.25. Cmon !!!!!! The only ones who made money are the veteran mlm industry leaders who came in the 1st week. Making everyone thinkthey too one day will be there, NOT !
I’ve talked to a LOT of them. No money besides the 5.25. And their membership fee is, how much? 34.95 a month. way to profit.
All the new enrollees idolizing the money makers are going to be singing another tune, like us when they wake up and realize, unless you bring in 80 people that bring in 80 people a piece, you will never see the money that the leaders are throwing at you like bones to a dog to make you hungry to RECRUIT and make them more money.
like any other mlm, only top 3% and you are likely to NOT be one.
Yea, I’m pissed, came in April 28th, recruited and still have not seen crap over $15.00, except the one time 20. for each person I brought in to suffer this embarrassment.
What residual, lousy 5.25 PL bonus, that I paid for myself.
That’s probably “the right mindset”.
I’m not very impressed by the false positive mindset. Sometimes it’s much better to identify it exactly as it is.
The “excitement” probably had a function for a very short period of time, but people have probably lost that feeling long time ago.
* Recruitment won’t help. They will only get many more dissatisfied people to deal with later. I did some calculations in post #60 for the Binary Matrix commission, and people will need around 30 people in downline to break even on the residual monthly income.
* Improving the service could help. People feel more satisfied if they see some value or “usefulness” in the service offered.
* False positivity won’t help. People will gradually become more and more pissed if they will need to pretend they’re happy with the situation.
* A new prelaunch isn’t a very good idea. PTP has already been too visible as a “short lived program”. People probably won’t fall for a new launch.
* Refund could be a solution. It may prevent people from using “other methods” (“whatever that might be”). For some people, “other methods” may be about chargebacks. It may also be about “organized complaints”.
We should normally try to reduce risks like those “other methods” when we run a business. Most business people prefer risks they can identify relatively clearly and calculate.
John Drake I applaud you. He put the link to this truth site, in some of the PTP Groups.
The few vultures in the groups attacked him for speaking the truth and wanting answers. Of course, Joel Santiago had him deleted, blocked, erased all his posts and the link to here. PTP is about to crumble.
One of the heavy recruiters has went on to do another business opportunity after stating all they would do is PTP. The other leaders always commented, liked posts they did.
Once they starting advertising this other opportunity, not one like or congrats to them from PTP so called leaders. Why the fear?
I just hate that PTP preys on the foreign countries that know no better and are just looking for a better way of life and then get pulled into this Pyramid scam.
Yes, it is a Pyramid scheme. John drake even put the link to what a pyramid is. PTP fits every point on the check list and what the video states.
Look. I understand a business and it takes work, BUT DON’T prey on inexperienced network marketers ( the average person) , who hates recruiting, and tell them this is different and you don’t have to recruit. Yes. you make money, what? , 5.25 a month for not recruiting.
Do not spin it as ,you make money. And insult people and their intelligence. I can make more as a business, selling cookies to people on the street. Any body can have a business then.
Even if your matrix does not fill, you have to have a LOT under you to make at least a 3rd of the cap out for your level. I understand marketing, but don’t prey on average people who would never have entered an MLM, until you presented your LIES.
As the others stated above in this post, Seth and Charles are LIARS! They NEVER have Q&A sessions, and when you contact their customer service you get VAGUE, run around answers and you get cut off quick.
I did my research, seemed pretty fair, until I got in, and you SEE the true explanation of what they” meant” to really tell you.
You think the Matrix is based when you come in and you are placed. They say they don’t manipulate where you are placed. LIE!
I saw first hand for a fact, there is manipulation and unfairness. You get a rude awakening of what the matrix really is once you get in and nobody lets you know where you are on it. I wonder why.
All those thousands of people supposedly coming in, and I, and a LOT, A LOT, of others I talked to,have not yet received even 1 spillover person, and I have recruited some and came in a whole month BEFORE the official Launch date June 1st!
Yeah, this is a SCAM ! SCAM written all over it !!!!!!!!!!
I looked at refund as a potential solution here, in post #87.
3 Star members have paid:
$69.95 joining fee (may be negotiable)
$399.95 yearly fee ($33.33 per month). 10 months may be refundable.
“May be refundable” is based on my experience of what people can accept, what I believe Seth Fraser and Charlie Vest can accept if someone gives them the right ideas.
The reason for 10 months instead of 12 is because they already have paid commissions for 1 or 2 months. Seth Fraser will put up a lot of resistance if he will have to claw back commissions (he simply won’t accept it).
“Give them the right ideas” is about that I must add some substance to it, show them that it actually can be acceptable as part of a solution.
Seth Fraser & Co. will be the ones paying out money = I will need to find some solutions THEY can accept first. The other group that will lose some income are leaders with “huge” downlines (if there are any).
PTP simply hasn’t worked like they planned. It worked for a very short period of time before it lost all its momentum. From my perspective it will be better to offer a way out of it than to try to make it work.
I have to be a “told you so guy”, but the fact that they tried so hard to tell you “no recruiting required”, yet their objective was to recruit you, was it not?
So clearly, there’s a bit of “see monkey do, not hear monkey say” cognitive dissonance there.
K Chang, You are right.
As a matter of fact, I did ask, and You know what they said, “It’s really to help you out, thought this would be good for you. You won’t have to struggle anymore and you can be your own boss and have income to do what you want. We help each other”.
Sounded good at the time.
I’m a a barbecue today, took a few batches of chocolate chunk chocolate chip cookies, did a mock bake sale, (“recruited” tasters to sell to) and would have collected $75. (reasonable price, few hours), did not have to beg for testers, the cookies sold themselves with no problem.
And PTP is giving me 5.25 a month, I bust by tail end to dang near beg people to join (and they don’t, you get worn out trying to convince them), and try to sell them on a travel club membership they can get the same results for free if they just google it.
So PTP 5.25 a month, exhausting effort with no takers, as opposed to baking cookies, which I love to do, no effort at all to move them and everybody is happy. Cookies win!
I was hoping to earn money from PTP to open my own shop. Met someone today who is going to partner up with me and we are going to open a small shop on our own.
This is worth the work and investment. So,at least something good came out of this. Me and 5 others that I know of are NOT renewing with the PTP pyramid SCAM.
SMH.. And this is going on within PTP:
Mlm junkies, who have made their money, used up PTP, now going onto other mlm opps. This conversation ended before it got heated and they started outing each other and the dirty deals that went on to make Austin money and leaving his team behind.
Austin does not care about anyone but himself. He was secretly, greedy, ready to go elsewhere. But then decided to suck up to Seth and Charles, because he knows he owes them for GIVING him the position and money he has in PTP.
Looks like PTP dirty leader scam was starting to rear it’s ugly head and expose the scam of living off the backs of poor unsuspecting recruits that have no chance of making good money in PTP, and only to fund the scum who came in the 1st week of April.
At least Tashenia is real. Unlike FAKE Austin. He knew to shut up just in time before he and the Seth camp got EXPOSED.
People are nervous and running scared. This is only one group of leaders that got into it at PTP. Others have got into it too over the same issue of going elsewhere and taking 100% from PTP.
They have a right to do what they want, why get upset because PTP is not #1 in their life. Losing more people PTP?
NOW and only NOW they are making sure you know your HAVE to RECRUIT A LOT to make money. Build your own team . It’s about time you started telling the truth of the only way to make money in PTP.
Company going down? Why are your top leaders who have insight, going on to other opps after saying PTP was it for them?
Do they know something you are not telling everyone. YES, and you know it. Desperate to hang on to the end(here is the conversation just a few minutes ago):
Current Alexa ranking (top countries).
There’s a long term trend here … but I prefer not to post it. 🙂
And finally Kazakhstan seems to have had enough “pro travel”. 🙂
Alexa ranking (countries):
The current changes may reflect Alexa’s own corrections, a change in Alexa’s methods.
More Alexa country statistics …
It’s the first time every “Top 5 country” have reduced popularity (rank).
I had expected some type of “relaunch” or “new component”, i.e. something they could use to create some new “excitement”. But it seems like they have decided to drop ideas like that.
Scam Artist Sankie Beukes from PTP thandatravel to steal from poor Africans.
Her Sister Daniella Le Roux is the CEO . Trudie Englebrecht is the money. They use mandela coin scam to fund the project.
Check out ThandaTravel, a scam spin off Sankie Beukes and Daniella Le Roux have made.
So apparently Seth Fraser has committed suicide.
Teary video from serial scammer Ryan Conley about it – youtube.com/watch?v=UgSaEwVVJbk
Don’t think it’s worth a standalone article as it doesn’t appear to be directly related to any one MLM company.
You think it’s true?
If Ryan Conley says water is wet, I’m still going to double check.
Mein Gott…that video, even for a crackpot, scammer, professional BSer like Ryan that was pathetic.
He said he heard from Troy Dooley. Same guy involved/fined in Zeek scam?
Can’t confirm but it’s not something people typically joke about.
Oh wow. Conley’s tears dried up pretty quick. Next thing you know he’s rallying against financial fraud regulation so “parents can stay at home and support their kids”.
What a manipulative weasel.
Yup, even for a crackpot, scammer, professional BSer like Ryan that was pathetic.
Yes, it’s true. I knew Seth a lifetime ago, long before this whole mlm mess. He took his own life earlier this week.
Oz,
Seth’s passing was just news to me today. Seth went through something so horrible, you cannot even imagine it. Any negative karma he accrued if he made decisions that weren’t perfect in his life has been paid.
It is a shame what happened to him. Sometimes, we don’t know what we don’t know.
-Dave