Revealed: The GiveOpp.com business opportunity
A couple of days ago, reader Kat left a comment regarding a supposed new MLM business opportunity start up involving John and Shannon Lavenia of ex-EMC Polaris Global fame;
Heard John and Shannon Lavenia are raiding the Polaris nest also with some new business they are launching this week Oz ..
everything is secret about it with anyone wanting to know details signing Non Disclosure Forms.
Since then a bit more information has trickled about but mostly everyone seems to be in the dark over just what this new business opportunity involves.
So far it’s been alleged that giveopp.com has something to do with travel, involves the Lavenias and is/was linked to their friend and business partner from Liberty League International Don Glanville.
Armed with nothing more then the above seemingly unrelated bits of information I decided to do some poking around and see if I could piece together anything.
Here’s what I found.
The GiveOpp website domain name was registered on the 15th October 2009 through hosting company ‘Retro Hosting’. The domain has been registered privately so information about who exactly registered the domain is not publicly available.
Retro Hosting however is currently in the process of being trademarked by none other then Don Glanville. An application for trademark was put in on 21st January 2010 but as of April 19th, 2010 the application status is ‘Non-Final Action – MAILED’.
This means that there were issues raised with the trademark application that need to be addressed. A copy of these issues has been sent back to the owner for review and they have 6 months to take action.
Retro Hosting isn’t Don Glanville’s first web hosting venture. Glanville owns ‘Quicklister’ which back in the day provided web hosting for Liberty League Associates, similar to United Wealth Solutions.
Quicklister itself seems to be defunct (on the page of ‘our members’ scroll down just over half way to see John and Shannon Lavenia’s testimonial), but the trademark for Quicklister is still registered to Glanville.
Interestingly the quicklister.com domain appears to have been transferred over to Retro Hosting on the 20th April, 2010, the day before Glanville applied for a trademark on Retro Hosting.
So thus far we know that ex-Liberty Leaguer Don Glanville’s hosting company is the domain provider for giveopp.com. So what about the giveopp business opportunity itself?
Currently the GiveOpp website is a login page for existing GiveOpp members. The GiveOpp logo at the top of the page tells us the opportunity is in beta and that GiveOpp is trademarked.
An application to trademark Give Opp was put in by none other then Don Glanville on November 12th, 2009. As of April 13th, 2010 the application is ‘Published for opposition’. This means that for 30 days from April 13th, ‘any party who believes it will be damaged by the registration of the mark may file a notice of opposition‘.
Details on how to become a member of Give Opp aren’t known at this stage, presumably it’s by invite only.
With the GiveOpp website being useless for actual company information for now, my efforts then lead me to the now defunct domain stageup.com.
Stagedup.com was registered on 13th October, 2009 (2 days before giveopp.com was registered), by a John Stalvey. Not surprisingly John Stalvey is involved in the MLM industry and lists himself as a ‘Programmer at Numis Network’. The Numis Network is a MLM company that markets numismatic coins.
Stalvey’s landing page for Numis is 15kprofits.com, which was registered on 17th September 2009. I wasn’t able to find an exact date but I assume this is around the time Stalvey joined the Numis Network.
So what does John Stalvey and stagedup.com have to do with Give Opp I hear you ask?
Currently the Staged Up domain is parked and is just showing advertisements. Prior to that however it was a landing page for a business that gave you the opportunity to ‘to make the income you want while giving back to people who are less fortunate‘.
This information was lifted from the google cache of the ‘Join Us’ page of the Staged Up domain when it was active (working 29th April, 2010). Note the title of the page is ‘GiveOpp’ and it’s also apparently trademarked. At the bottom of the cached pages is also the copyright information ‘Give Opp (c) 2010’.
The registration information for GiveOpp.com was last modified on the 11th January 2010. I’m not sure if Stalvey still owns the domain, or if he’s sold it but still kept the registration through his Retro Hosting company.
Presumably if he’s off selling the Numis Network he’s sold giveopp.com to whoever is launching the current business opportunity. It’s unknown whether Stalvey was involved in GiveOpp directly when it was running through Stagedup.com (which is still registered to Stalvey).
The cache for the Staged Up ‘Privacy Policy’ page also provides two direct links to giveopp.com;
We have set our software so that your browser will only return cookie information to the domain where the cookie originated (giveopp.com).
For questions or concerns, please send an email to: privacy@giveopp.com
I’m not sure if stagedup.com was redirecting to giveopp.com or viceversa. It doesn’t make any sense that the two websites would be online in tandem though.
The source code of the cached StagedUp privacy policy page reveals a Facebook account for Give Opp which appears to be active. The cache date for the privacy policy page is dated 25th February 2010 so presumably the Facebook page was running whilst GiveOpp was still using the StagedUp domain.
Note that the Facebook account logo for GiveOpp is the same as that featured on the GiveOpp.com webpage.
The GiveOpp facebook page finally reveals what the GiveOpp business opportunity is about;
GiveOpp Permaculture provides communities with sustainable agriculture, water resources and social well-being. An amazing mission!
Permaculture is
an approach to designing human settlements and agricultural systems that mimic the relationships found in natural ecologies.
The intent is that, by rapidly training individuals in a core set of design principles, those individuals can design their own environments and build increasingly self-sufficient human settlements.
How marketing permaculture to the third world translates into a business opportunity I’m not sure but it does explain the ‘travel’ comments people were bringing up.
The Facebook states that the Give Opp prelaunch was last Tuesday which co-incides with reader Ty’s recent comment the day after;
They had a call yesterday, sounds like some kind of Scientology travel scam. Don Glanville was the scam artist behind the Reverse Funnel System, and John and Shannon Lavenia were instrumental in launching Polaris Global.
I don’t know what the connection between permaculture and a MLM business is yet as the only information provided on the Facebook page is vague;
We want you to be an active catalyst for cultural change while you develop financial stability for you and your family.
As for the Lavenias involvement in GiveOpp, the screenshot on the right shows Shannon Lavenia has ‘liked’ the GiveOpp profile. Whilst this doesn’t mean she’s necessarily involved, it’s a strong indication the Lavenias have got something to do with the company.
Why GiveOpp revolving around permaculture needs to be under a non disclosure agreement I’ve got no idea. If anyone else finds anything else out feel free to share the information below with a comment.
The Permaculture aspect is interesting. John and Shannon Lavenia are rabid Scientologists, and the Church of Scientology has a series of “Planetary Betterment Campaigns”: http://www.freedommag.org/planetary_social_betterment_campaigns
GiveOpp sounds like a way for them to “help” communities while at the same time safepoint them for Scientology. So a distributor is “active catalyst for cultural change while you develop financial stability for you and your family”… and help out Scientology in the process.
John and Shannon Lavenia are definitely a part of GiveOpp – they are hosting the calls.
People that know and have worked with Don Glanville and the Lavenias know that this will be another scam.
My only query with a Scientology link then is given that it appears the current owners have bought the business idea from Stalvey, what was the original intention of the MLM idea?
Also does that then mean that Glanville is also going down the Scientology path?
It’ll be interesting to see if there is infact a Scientology slant on things once GiveOpp release more information.
I believe John Stalvey has worked with Don Glanville for years. If I remember correctly, there was a Chad Stalvey that answered some domain name queries after Don left LLI.
I’m not sure if Don is going down the Scientology path, but the Lavenias are entrenched and you can still see Hubbard School of Admin links on their various websites. My take is that they will do whatever they can to further Scientology. I’ve heard they were the ones who introduced Shane Krider to Scientology.
I’m interested in hearing more about GiveOpp, wonder why all the secrecy if they’re already hosting calls?
You have to wonder why these guys are such a secret ?
http://giveopp.com
I know a few people who paid their $59 and are upset as nothing works – they’re not able to login to their backoffice for example. Another BS prelaunch, another company collecting money for stuff they don’t have a la Polaris. Another Scam.
How do you even get on the ‘you need to pay $59 to join our company’ list?
Doesn’t seem to be any way to apply at this stage.
This site has nothing at all to do with MLM, it seems like you post a comment on something that you know nothing about, and hope for the best.
Why would this guy Don be going down the Scientology route, and who the hell cares if he does or doesn’t, I am not at all religious, a total atheist in fact, but anyone else’s beliefs is none of my business, if we looked at life like that, none of us would deal with anyone, lets face it, most Catholic priests are Pedophiles, and a high amount of business owners are catholic, why do you not “have a go” at any online business that is run by someone who is Catholic? You know that is true, as they are trying to get the Pope into a courtroom as we speak, and they have apologised for it.
You could dig the dirt on anything in the world if you look for it, but this post is just total rubbish, it looks like you are simply trying to show people how clever you are at finding domain name owners, who gives a shit?
I am nothing to do with this business at all, to me you have proved that your blog is total rubbish and unfounded.
Do a post on Sir Richard Branson, and his MLM business, he has been in court more times than most, and Trump, in court all the time over his career, shit happens in business, any business, get over it.
Why don’t you call the people you have a go at, and ask them your questions straight out, and get the other side of the story, instead of getting a group of people you know nothing about supplying you the information.
Hi there. I’m going to assume you’re new to all this.
If they keep their beliefs to themselves then yes, it is their business. If they start to promote their religion via a supposedly impartial business opportunity then something is wrong. This has come up in the past with Polaris Media Group which some of the people involved in GiveOpp have been involved in.
That’s where the suspicion comes from.
Right. So you just happened to stumble across an MLM blog without any personal interest in MLM. Good one mate. After replying to this I’m gunna go find some blogs on topics I have no interest in and go leave some comments too.
I won’t get into the Catholic vs. Scientology detabe save to say Catholicism requires nowhere near the amount of personal investment that Scientology demands. Nobody is going to come looking for you if you stop making payments and/or don’t totally commit your entire life to the religion.
Also Catholicism is being held to the fire over their alleged crimes, Scientology on the other hand…
Who owns what is important. Go have a look at GiveOpp’s homepage, doesn’t tell you much does it. If I’m thinking about joining a business opportunity I want to know who’s running it and what it involves. That’s the entire point of this article.
Domain ownership is a pretty strong indication of business ownership.
The first rule of network marketing is not to discuss network marketing. Let alone with someone who you know is not remotely interested in joining your downline and making you money.
Part of a blog is community feedback. If people can provide information that can then be verified by others either once apart of or still in the business then that validates the information. Regardless of where it originated from.
The interactivity aspect is one of the stronger points of the blog style of communication. I’m certainly not going to discourage it. And for the record, I undertook all the research for this particular article myself.
‘Domain ownership is a pretty strong indication of business ownership’
yeah well how come your domain ownership is so well hidden you hypocrite! The ‘what a load of rubbish’ is right ; this is all twaddle and you peddle in bs and gossip
Hi Susan, thankyou for finally replying with some of your own comments rather then just publishing the regurgitated quotes you’d been throwing up on OzSoapbox.
Because I’m not trying to sell you a business opportunity masked in secrecy. There’s quite a lot of personal information made available about me in the articles over at OzSoapbox over the years.
You know I live in Taiwan and don’t work in the MLM industry, that’s all that’s really relevant. What’s knowing my name going to achieve?
I’ve supplied links for any paper trails that I’ve followed. Care to point out what exactly is ‘bs and gossip‘ in the article? Or are you just going to continue to carry on like a Scientologist and continue to detract from the information presented by ‘attacking the (supposed) attacker?’
Looks like Susan Shaw is a former PMGer who’s jumped from Scientology frying pan (PMG) into another (GiveOpp).
All of you people WAKE UP!
GiveOpp is an insider’s deal that will build “credibility” by having its “top earners” sign each other up over the next 2 months. Then they’ll release income claims “I made $10,000 in my first month and I’m saving the world at the same time.”
Please, Susan! Give us a break.
Why is everyone a Scientologist who remarks on this blog, I have done some research too, whoever Susan is, she has not “attacked” you here.
The plain and simple reason for you making this blog, and a very good business idea too I might add, is the monetization of it with Google, I challenge you to permanently take off the advertising, you are great at ranking up the search engines by planting a few seeds to your 6-10 regular followers on a subject that affects other peoples livelihoods.
You have also started campaigns on some other companies I see, to bring in more revenue for you, these companies will always have losers and winners, and the unfortunate people who did lose some cash will always come and shout about it.
That is life, even though they were silly enough to start in a business with no business acumen in the first place. You will also always have rogue distributors miss selling different opportunities, as in the sales industry, and any brick and mortar business out there too. One always gets sold on the possibilities of the business, whatever industry it is, the funny thing is that, offline businesses never get pulled up for it.
A friend of mine is very high up in Subway, 100k + to start in business, very few of them make money, perhaps you could start a Subway page, but I want half of the money, and I can give you a hundred other businesses as well.
The bottom line Oz, Drop your advertising, permanently, you do have adverts on this site from opportunities that you are asking people to avoid, that is not right.
You are good at what you do, blogging, but your info is to one sided, and I have followed the links back too, the trail, mostly rubbish.
You are here for the money, nothing else, I hope you are sharing it with your loyal base, because without them, no blog.
Have you found out what Give Opp is yet? do what I did, and get them on the phone, simple really! you could record it, real facts.
Welcome back, and with your reply way to adress absolutely none of the previous comments directed at you.
Probably because of comment replies like yours. You originally left a comment, I replied and now you’ve replied addressing absolutely nothing that was directed at you and instead criticising the author by claiming I’m just here for the money, nothing else.
Whether you are a Scientologist or not is inconsequential, you do however realise that in avoiding criticism and instead drawing attention to what my motivations may or may not be and questioning my character based on your preconceived answer instead of addressing any of the information presented, that you’re pretty much textbook channeling Scientology’s attack the attacker policy?
What or how would removing advertising in any way effect the information presented in this blog? Would the information suddenly become any less relevant or less truthful without advertising?
This site was started after I wrote about Liberty League International nearly a year ago on OzSoapbox. After some articles topped over 400 comments I figured there was a strong demand for independent information about MLM companies.
The internet is quite self regulatory, if you write rubbish people won’t read it and this is evidenced by the thousands of garbage press releases for companies like GiveOpp that get published on the internet everyday. With nothing more then the sole purpose of creating weak backlinks to people’s own personal financial interests within various MLM companies.
BehindMLM stands on its own merit and that of my work put into it. Contrary to popular belief blogging and the research that goes along with it is not easy. If BehindMLM ranks in search engines it’s a testament to the demand out there for the information I provide.
Care to back any of this up with statistical evidence? Or am I just expected to take your wild claims as fact. If Subway franchises were so unprofitable I sincerly doubt there’d be so many of them around worldwide.
I assume your talking about the links featured in this article. What exactly is rubbish. Like you know, specifically? Or can I expect another follow up reply with more author bashing that doesn’t address anything relevant?
On one hand you claim my alleged business model is a great idea, then you tell me that I’m great at but that I should drop it, permanently. I really hope your entrepenurial skills are better then your business advice.
Listening to some marketing crap over the phone isn’t my idea of finding out what a business is all about. That and I imagine i’d be hung up on if I told them who I was or asked any difficult questions.
You see the difference between the MLM industry at large is you can come here and criticise and challenge what I’ve written – and you know I’ll respond in a timely manner.
Go try level some questions or criticism at your nearest MLM company and watch how quickly you’re ignored. There’s a reason there’s a demand out there for information I put together.
Why is everyone a Scientologist who remarks on this blog.
Oz
Reply
So everyone who disagrees with you is using some religion are they? as I said in my earlier post, I am an atheist, end of story, spin how you like, if I disagree with you, like anyone else on your entire blog, I am a Scientologist, Is that the case with all business people who are trying to protect their business, all politicians who tell lies, all people who have a right to answer their critics? are they all Scientologist?
Oz
Reply
Take it off then and we will see if you are using the blog to make money!
Also, the ads you are making money from, are in some cases the businesses that you are having a go at, or trying to. check them out, that is as Susan Shaw said, hypocritical.
You show the people on here that you are totally impartial, not earning a living by trying to dig dirt on companies, as you know, you will always be able to find dirt, there are very few companies that have NOT been in court for some reason or other.
Oz
Reply
Not true, people will read rubbish, they read newspapers everyday, you rank solely because you have a go at business, people in those businesses have put a lot of time and effort into them, they will react to your comments and create a conversation, some people answer without thinking, like me sometimes, and you take that as gospel and refer to it in other posts, to further rank your own blog and make more money.
As I said, you are good at it, but better if you were not doing it for financial reasons and purposely trying to ruin their businesses. People will always defend their business, those that can not handle the crap you throw at them, leave, those that reply to defend, get called a Scientologist, you can be the only winner here, they do not have a chance.
Oz
Reply
Sorry but I can not put my friends name on here, he used to work for me back in the day.
He is responsible for new openings now, and opens them all over the country, they have a big list of potential buyers constantly, that are ready to step in to a franchise, he personally had to operate his own shops in order to get the post of new openings, but he had to move his 4 units on, sell them, because he made no money, and was open all day and night, do the maths.
100k minimum, that is a hell of a lot of sandwiches to pay the 100k back, then the ongoing franchise fee, plus the normal overheads, rent, gas, electric etc. leaves very little indeed, take a look at their site for the costs. I am not linking it for you.
Oz
Reply
No, not this article, links work, but very boring, really, who cares.
Oz
Reply
Finally, we are down to the nitty gritty, this whole blog is a business, and well done, I really don’t care for MLM, but there are people here that you should think of too.
I am not talking about this specific business, because I don’t understand it at all, but this blog, you claim to be posting because you actually care for people, but you try and wreck peoples business, on one hand you say you are trying to stop people making a mistake, on the other you are trying to ruin the same people who have just started in business.
Oz
Reply
The business presentation would be marketing crap, I agree, unless you wanted to hear it of course, but it is not rocket science to answer an ad and get to talk to someone you want to, you never know Oz, they might actually be some nice people, regardless of religion or if you are not into this type of business.
The bottom line for me Oz, You may be the nicest guy out there, or not, but I am not going to make that decision because we have never met. I am not hear to bash the blogger, I simply think it is unfair to run people down that you do not know, then when I see you have set up other companies to do the same, that is just not right, Post on American Airways, the ex staff will always put the boot in, true? any subject, that is the case.
Lots of respect Oz, thanks for the chat,
The Atheist
ps, start being nice, with your skill, you will get a lot more back, but I am not sure if there is enough profit in it for you lol, take care.
Oz is a genius. If he can make some money which allows him to be free to dig deep to get some answers and/or uncover inconsistencies … well that is just pure genius.
Of course not. Just appreciate that by not addressing any of the information presented and going after me you’re not discrediting the information. I could be a hobo on the street or the owner of a multi-billion dollar empre, the information I present stands on its own.
The Scientology sentiment is a follow on from Polaris Global (formerly Polaris Media Group). Some of the people involved in GiveOpp are confirmed Scientologists and were involved in Polaris Global. Over the course of writing about this company I and anyone reading OSB/BehindMLM have seen time and time again the ‘attack the attacker’ policy in action.
Regardless of your religion however, it’s a general rule that dismissing information as ‘rubbish’ and creating unrelated strawman arguments isn’t really productive. If person A claims XXX and you counter with ‘ah, that’s rubbish. What about topic YYY?’ you’re not really challenging anything.
The ads on the Adsense network will remain on the network whether I have Adsense running on BehindMLM or not. Does Adsense make money? Of course it does. Am I going to retire, buy a McMansion and sip chardonnay for breakfast every morning any time soon?
Probably not.
My passion is in the writing, any money is a bonus.
I still fail to see how removing Adsense would in any way affect the legitimacy of the content I produce.
So what then, this kind of stuff simply shouldn’t be written about? Bury your head in the sand because everyone’s going to court over shifties? No thanks.
Anyone is free to contribute to the discussion here. Whether this is refuting the information presented (which mind you despite 1000’s of comments spread out over BehindMLM seems to never happen), sharing your own experience or whatever you choose.
People involved in the business written about aren’t the only ones who participate in discussion on here. You claimed yourself you ‘don’t care for MLM‘ yet you called up GiveOpp to ‘get some real facts‘.
Calliing up MLM companies to get real facts is a little strange for someone who doesn’t care for MLM.
I never stated you were a Scientologist, only that you were using their methods of rebuttal, which by and large are useless in countering a viewpoint as they deliberately address nothing.
I also don’t set out to ruin anyone’s business. If a topic of interest catches my eye I’ll put some time in and do some of my own research. If I find anything of interest I’ll write about it. Wouldn’t ruining these businesses be counterproductive to my own alleged business plan if I cared so much about making money?
No MLM companies = nothing to write about.
Also if I can handle sifting through the countless pages of spin garbage ‘these people’ throw up on the internet when conducting my research they can put up with a little criticism if it’s valid.
Sounds like someone didn’t do their proper research before getting into the franchise then. If only there was some information available on the financial statistics of running a Subway franchise…
…Oh wait there apparently is, Subway’s own website.
I kind of don’t really know why you’ve brought Subway up, to highlight your friend’s lack of research?
Thankyou. So you don’t actually disagree or refute anything written here. Just that it’s ‘all rubbish’. Welcome to the bulk of criticism that occurs via the comments system. 99.9% of it goes along the lines of
‘hey I don’t disagree and am unable to provide any proof that what you’re writing is crap but…. HEY LOOK OVER THERE Oz is making millions off his blogs, he also works for every competitor we have out there OMG HE’S A MLM TERRORIST!’
I permit it as I think it adds depth in showcasing a side you won’t see of people when you contact them about their business opportunity.
I wouldn’t be confusing basic blog monetization with running a business. I’m not some kind of Mother Teresa figure either, I find information and I write about it – the process is simple. If it helps people make to make more informed decisions in life then great!
These poor defenseless people are welcome to refute any of the claims made at any time. They won’t though because I don’t just go and make things up. If I provide an opinion I’ll tell you it’s an opinion and show you on exactly what basis I’m forming it on.
Case in point this article. You can’t refute it because I’ve provided the sources of exactly where the information has come from. That’s why we’re discussing my grand business plans and supposedly ruining people’s lives instead of GiveOpp itself.
If you think talking to someone on the phone while they read out a marketing script their upline supplied them is ‘getting to know someone’ then you have pretty shallow standards for knowing people.
In a business context analysing people’s online actions when they think nobody is looking has proven far more effective in getting to know people then any marketing phone call would have. I prefer to judge people on their actions, not on the spin they’ll try to feed me verbally.
My work is a reflection of what goes on in the MLM industry itself. Being nice or not personally has nothing to do with it.
Attack the attacker hey? , you all do it.
Looks more like a critique on the launch testimonials we might see when GiveOpp launches then a personal attack on Susan.
Did the Lavenias get a divorce from Gene Braxton and Tony Rush?
Have you seen Gene Braxton’s latest website? http://www.TheTopEarner.com .
go to ten seconds into the video.
Quote — “For nearly a decade I’ve shown thousands of people all over the world how to earn huge incomes from home.”
(A decade? LOL)
Gene is in Numis. Along with Tony Rush. Their claims seem to slightly overinflated. Perhaps the Numis Network is a category worthy of air time over on BehindMLM.com .
Here’s the video you’ll receive when you opt-into Gene’s website:
http://www.thebest7minutes.com/movie.html
Some of my favorite quotes:
“The most powerful network marketing plan in HISTORY” – Tony Rush
“Guys, I’m not exaggerating.” – Tony Rush
“A single mother on welfare can find a way to get started.” – Tony Rush
Is this the representation of Numis that the founders had in mind?
I’ve got serious doubts about the long term validity of a business that relies on the exclusiveness of a collectable item but at the same time requires mass producing said item to be succesful.
Presumably the value in a Numismatic coin is in it’s rarity. If they aren’t rare then surely their demand price will approach the value of the silver the coin is made out of.
Tony seems to appreciate this and heavily pushes the $100 recruitment angle. Wonder what happens when everybody’s finished moving over their downlines over…
I’ll go into this in more detail at a future date.
I also don’t think the relationship between the Lavenia’s and Braxton has soured. Braxton’s landing page is powered by Marketing Pro Plus. Shannon Lavenia is credited as being ‘ in the principal management of Market Marketing Pro Plus‘ and is set to speak at a conference about it next week.
Still got the adverts on here Oz, what ever you say, its all for the money, and how do I know that the posted comments are not simply you answering yourself just to rank on Google and make more money.
Prove you are not only looking for the money, and take the ads off the blog for good. We do not want to hear that adverts do not affect the blog, of course they do when you are trying to get a higher rank and make more money, as I said before, you are a great blogger, and great at monetizing your blogs, but we can not take you seriously when you are only here to make money buy creating controversial posts to rank higher solely for the dosh.
Take off the ads and stop avoiding it!
Now you are going to reply that it makes no difference with advertising and your heart and soul is in it, and then one of your pseudonyms will also make a post to say that you deserve to make the money because you save the world, and you saved them, and Oz is the best thing in the world,
you are good good but not that good, lol
OMG, Oz advertises on his blog! Can’t trust him!
Get a grip; it’s very common for blogs to advertise… its even built into a lot of the free blogs like blogspot.
Sounds like someone is trying to divert the topic of this thread…. who cares about the adverts on the pages,, I sure don’t and frankly haven’t even noticed any.
Seems most people on here take Oz very seriously, perhaps just not you. Though you did say “we” are you sure you’re not speaking on behalf of this business?
You’re truly psychic!!
I don’t know much about the really technical stuff on advertising and Google ranking, but if ads contribute to a better ranking I hope Oz never takes them off.
What a load of rubbish – If what you say is true, then taking ads away would have the effect of decreasing a blogs Google ranking. If this blog can’t be seen on the first or second page of Google, that would be better for your business I imagine. A bit of a self serving challenge.
People, do your research and due diligence for any MLM business. Research everything you can on your founders and key leaders. Then trust your instincts very strongly.
If whatever I say you’re going to insist ‘it’s all for the money’ I’m just going to tell you the ads are here to stay. Deal with it.
I’ve been supporting OzSoapbox for the better part of a year and a half and I’m not going to change just because some random thinks these blogs will shutdown if advertising doesn’t appear on them.
And yes, all the comments on here are just me replying to myself. You heard it here first.
(why are people in the MLM industry so paranoid?)
Who is we?
If I am looking for the money this doesn’t change the validity of any of the information posted on this blog. Prove how using adsense has any effect on the information presented here.
I don’t care if ‘we’ don’t take me seriously just because ads feature here. People can do their own research off the back of my work and confirm what I’ve written themselves. Or at the very least ask questions they might not have thought of.
Additionally at any time anyone is free to publicly critique, challenge and correct what I’ve written about.
Rubbish is obviously linked here with GiveOpp. “Let’s attack the attacker.” It’s very concerning to see a business being built by Scientologists and run behind the scenes by someone like Don Glanville based on his track record.
To ‘What a load of rubbish…
In my opinion- (and thats all it is- my opinion) Oz throws his blog out there, provides some research to back up what he is saying- and leaves it open for comment…
??
Whats your problem?
To be honest- i haven’t paid attention to any of the ads on here- wouldn’t be able to tell you one single product/ company that has been advertised on this site. Frankly- i don’t care what/who they are. I come to this site- and Oz to read the article, comments, blogs- whatever they are called.
How can u explain the independent ppl like me- who post on here with our own ‘real life’ experiences- which quite often- supports the article or question initially posted by Oz? Do u think we are paid too? Do you think we are all trying to incriminate certain opportunities- to drive ppl to something else?
If thats the case- u are WRONG!!
I am not involved with any MLM/ network marketing/ direct sales company. I have a full time job- but i’ve previously been involved in Polaris. Before- i woke up to myself!
i comment on these posts because i think ppl deserve to hear from those that have gone before them, instead of just the hype by company ‘leaders’.
What those ppl, who are researching joining a biz, do with the information they read is out of mine, yours & Oz’s control.
ppl could very well read stuff on here and still sign up- and if they do- i wish them the very best and hope they achieve the results they deserve- but for you to come out and attack oz- well- really- that attacks all of us ‘everyday joe’s’ who contribute as well…
Take a breathe buddy- we are not out to get u personally- just let us have our say too- and if u dont like it- dont visit this site again! easy!!
Masters of Deception
May 16th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Rubbish is obviously linked here with GiveOpp. “Let’s attack the attacker.” It’s very concerning to see a business being built by Scientologists and run behind the scenes by someone like Don Glanville based on his track record. (Quote)
Read from the top, Linked to Give Opp? How on earth did you get to that conclusion?
Most of what you say is cool, at last, I too am not involved, in MLM, I came across this thread and noticed it was having a go at people and a company from the start, when there was nothing known about it, and that Oz had no idea about the company either.
Why would you start off a blog on a subject matter that you know nothing about, and it became apparent to me, that it was for the money, from the start, not the subject matter.
If you look through the posts on here, apart from a few people that felt mistreated by another company, there are no relevant posts, and all hearsay, you for instance, do not know what GiveOpp is about, nor do I, I am not attacking Oz at all here, just pointing out that he has another agenda.
Which he does, he is in business, and fair play, and people should also know that with all of us not posting under our real names, then we could all be Oz too.
What a load of rubbish you obviously have no understanding of this blog.
The main reason why we are all worried about this new business is that some of the scammers heavily involved in Polaris are now in this business so we are trying to warn others that this could be another MLM to watch out for.
Most of us who write on this blog are trying to warn others of the dangers of these businesses. I just wish Oz was around when I started in Polaris.
yes I thought your passion was teaching children? that is what you say elsewhere about being in Taiwan? why are you there?
what a load of rubbish has hit a chord and you dont like it; you are just in it for the money.
Don’t think I’ve ever mentioned anything about having a passion for teaching children. I do it because until my Mandarin has developed there’s little else I can do in Taiwan legally.
I was writing before I started teaching and I’ll be writing when I’m done with it.
This is the very thing that what a load of rubbish is talking about Oz. where on this blog does it say that Glanville has a dubious track record? You didnt say that in your opening piece of so called info’; it has suddenly been invented by a guest here.
Then you have ‘ was scammed’ crapping on when she made money in liberty league! She wasn’t scammed at all! Your bloggers talk rubbish and make up stuff and you say nothing.
You claim :
But you dont; any one who refutes you is ‘a poor defenceless person” eh? well dont you dare call me that : I refute you because you talk such rubbish and allow others to gossip on your site.
an example of this;
so who cares what Tyler thinks ; opinions are like assholes – everyone has one.
you said :
well i have given you bs and gossip. see above!
I am a roman catholic and proud of it so stop calling me a scientologist just because you cant stand the heat of criticism. And once again why have you moved to Taiwan if you cant do anything legal there? Very odd indeed and smells very bad!
The only thing that smells here is you trolling and attempting to take each blog post off topic.
If you don’t agree with what’s been written, say your bit, then move on. And then leave the rest of us to discuss.
No one will try and twist your arm either way. In fact, I strongly ENCOURAGE you to sign up to GiveOpp. Most of us here have worked out what the deal is with Shannon Lavenia, and if you disagree, please sign up and prove us wrong 🙂
I await your return with your new business and millions pouring out of your bank account /sarcasm
Oh and according to an “article”, the launch date is July 4.
Are you insinuating that people cannot form their own opinion on BehindMLM? Yeah, how dare they.
I don’t speak for ‘masters of deception’ but a lot of people, myself included view Liberty League International as nothing more then a pyramid scheme scam. Glanville was involved in Liberty League, ergo his alleged ‘dubious track record’.
Nothing is stopping anyone from going out and doing their own research into Glanville’s track record and providing their own opinion. Nothing has been invented. An opinion however, based on some facts presented in the original article (and possibly additional research on ‘masters of deception’s behalf), has.
Why do you have such a problem with this?
What does ‘masters of deception”s opinion have to do with ‘was scammed’ making money in Liberty League?
If all it took was someone to make some money for a business to not be a pyramid scheme scam, well then there wouldn’t be any scams would there.
Um, if your comprehension level is that low that you cannot process someone’s opinion I’ll leave it at that. You seem to have appointed yourself as the anonymous spokesperson for anyone written about on BehindMLM, hence the ‘poor defenceless person’ title.
Nearly all (every?) article is based on informaton direct from the companies I write about otherwise a hyperlink to where the information was sourced is provided. You seem to be confused on differentiating blogger with reader.
I write articles and participate in feedback, readers comment. The whole idea of a blog is to share opinions and experiences. Welcome to the internet Susan.
Again, people are free to form their own opinions and share them on here. A blog is an open platform for relevant discussion.
None of your reader commentary quotes have addressed anything in particular that was written in the article. The passage you quote clearly states ‘Care to point out what exactly is ‘bs and gossip‘ in the article?‘
I never called you a Scientologist, I asked if you were going to continue to carry on like one.
Susan I’m not sure how succesful your business is but can I ask that if you’re turning a profit you put some of it into further education. I’m seriously starting to question the value of your contributions on here, purely due to the sheer amount of comprehensional errors in what you’re reading and the feedback you attach it to.
It’s honestly not worth my time continually pointing your mistakes when they are as simple as you reading something and not comprehending it accurately.
Case in point, I never said I can’t do anything legal in Taiwan. I clearly stated;
If you cannot comprehend that properly then that’s your problem.
I ask that you read, read again and then read again anything you’re going to reply to. If I see another massive long winded reply that’s full of you reading something and not understanding it properly and launching into irrelevant discussion based on what you think you’ve read people say I’m just going to nuke it.
I might teach English in Taiwan but I’m not here to educate you on basic English comprehension.
The topic being Give Opp: Can you believe this stupid you tube video?
… wow they are already sleeping and making ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS overnight.
What a load of rubbish… these people are unbelievable. Hey ping pong boom bounce bounce, it’s so easy fun fun wahoo, easy peazy blah haha.
Oh but its OOKK cause we are helping da planet. What a joke.
And Susan Shaw is just trying to detract from the topic with her babble.
This video is pure rubbish. This business has not even launched. All of these people are old Liberty Leaguers who were part of the Extreme Team or old EMC. The comp plan favors all of these people in the video because of the pass-ups.
The income testimonials are stacking one leader under another. No real sales. No real prospects. Money game. Money game.
In this video it’s all money money money. What about the Give Back part? Oh. Wait. All of these Liberty Leaguers need to pay their mortgages. That is the charity here. Please help support McKenzies, Lavenias, Grants, Atkinsons.
Opportunity to really shine with excitement? I didn’t know you could polish bullsh*t.
what a load of S**T – same thing different scam. These poeple are rofessioanl conartists – I know as I know them personally. Delwyn McKenzie has already screwed me for $30k.
Just a pathetic remake of Liberty League or POlaris – same talk, same lines and same bullshit. DO NOT GET SUCKED
lavineas, don silver, delwyn mckenzie – all ex LLI
I have posted an occasional comment on the LLI/PMG Youtube videos and have just tried to comment for the first time on a giveopp video. I got the following response -“You have been blocked by the owner of this video.”
Make what you will of that.
I have also looked at as much info as I can find on giveopp and it is uncannily similar to the type of stuff coming out of $cientology’s “volunteer minister” programme.
Google “voluneer minister” for more.
Don’t forget Linda and Anan Lashin, Kieron and Kristi Atkinson and Andy Grant among others…..
I think they will all find it a little harder to make money this time around with all the facts coming out.
Audio link to GiveOpp presentation:
http://www.audioacrobat.com/playweb?audioid=Pbfd257cf601d671a0717e99a4bff2162YVp4QlREYmRy
hahaha listen to the first callers they take, they’re all so fake and scripted lol. You can tell they’re reading off a script.
Anyone who falls for this probably deserves to be scammed. I thought PMG was bad; this takes the cake… and then rubs it all over your face.
I don’t know them personally, but I did at least do some homework on GiveOpp, I might start, to report back here if I have time.
What I have found so far, there is one product which costs $2999 and the guy said I did not have to buy it, and that I could start at $49.95 and earn $500 for every sale I made, and if I decided to buy the product later, I could start earning from my team sales, that was it, 2 choices.
Not sure how that is a remake of what you were involved with before?, I will try and call someone else to see if I get the same answer.
@whataloadofrubbish
Any “scheme” that relies on any form of pass up sales, like this, is a scam. Its all designed as a pyramid with the first in making the money – promoting money making scheme and will ultimately fail because it is not sustainable.
It is not legitament – and these poeple, McKenzie, Lavinea etc know this…. they have no moral fiber at all – simply work one con, with all the impressive infrastracture, shows and deceipt that they are so good at … take poeples money and move on again to the next one.
Lavenia’s have done this 3-4 times with different “opportunities’ I know these poeple personally – they the ultimate ego centric arrogant liers who probably have realised they cannot get honest employment anywhere else.
DO NOT DO THIS – it is rubbish and you will loss your money.
“What a Tangled Web We Weave When We Practice To Deceive”
As for me I am going to stay far away from all this secret scientology scheme…history has documented the destruction these people are causing….very bad energy here…stay away!
These GiveOpp videos are heaps of rubbish
I made $1000 while sleeping
I enrolled 6 people in my first day
It’s all about the money
These are old Liberty Leaguers calling their downlines and enrolling a few out of hundreds who are willing to buy the dream for $3000 when no company even exists yet.
Don’t really see anyone talking about the giving back.
I found this site searching for info on GiveOpp and I am so glad I did. I am always wary of MLM/network marketing opportunities but got drawn in to the giving and social thics stuff.
The person who attracted me kept giving me links to so called information but there never was any concrete information on the product the company supplies. I am being hassled to sign up and pay $59 but $59 for what? to reserve my place in a prelaunch matrix selling something.
No thanks.
I just got a link to a page with GiveOpp on it and decided to search because they’re just not giving any concrete info at all. Its been a real education reading this and I’m now unsubscribing etc. to get rid of the scamming liars.
Thank you Oz.
BTW
This is the last email they sent.
Hi Born again Satanist,
So your links above seem to lead to Briony Pettigrew and she owns this site… liveliketom.com
This is most amusing, does she mean Tom Cruise? And she states she intends to achieve her goals by hook or by crook.
Be very careful about the crook part.
Seems you have already cottoned on, well done. But it must be really hard to pass up the opportunity to work with John Lavenia. Oh well.
Briony Pettigrew seems to have quite an interesting pedigree. Her association with the mini $cientology cult Avatar, as shown on her own website, should ring alarm bells for anybody thinking of giving her their money. http://www.avatarcult.info
Be careful by assumptions and perceptions….
‘by hook or by crook’ derives from the custom in mediaeval England of allowing peasants to take from royal forests whatever deadwood they could pull down with a shepherd’s crook or cut with a reaper’s billhook.
It’s very interesting to see the origins of some of the sayings we still use to this day. They can change drastically in meaning over time though.
I’m not sure that Ms Pettigrew had the original meaning in mind when using it.
I think the modern day interpretation is that you will do what ever it takes to achieve what you want to. The reference to crook was simply a play on words ie. “theif”.. might take your money?
@born again satanist
One of the reasons I started this website is to provide as much information as I can about the various MLM business opportunities going around.
I understand it from a marketing perspective why it’s in the individual business associate’s advantage to keep prospects in the dark but from a greater business perspective I think it’s unneeded.
I mean there’s plenty of businesses out there competing that advertise directly what they are that haven’t closed up shop. For some reasons secret marketing and MLM or network marketing seem to go hand in hand.
@Boris
Uh avatars, wizards, light bringers and excorcism… what the crap?!
It’s becoming increasingly difficult to seperate or believe that people’s personal beliefs would have no effect on their business practices.
I mean cmon.
‘So what’d you do on the weekend?’
‘Few beers, went out clubbing… you?’
‘I performed an exorcism on a level 42 light bringer wizard….
…but that was the weekend. Right, let’s get onto business’.
@LC
I don’t know about thievery but yeah that’s how I took it. ‘By any means possible’.
Some inside information re Briony Pettigrew from someone who has known her for some time. Briony is a well respected Television presenter who has worked alongside some well known personalities- Hugh Rimington, Ben Dark (Getaway), Alison Langdon (Channel Nine) to name a few. She worked as presenter for the ABC Darwin and Channel Nine presenting her own 6 part TV Series in 2004 in Australia. She has studied at Griffith University undertaking her Bachelor degree in Communications and still freelances her work today in the media.
You can see her work at http://www.SunglowFinance.com.au. She has no interest in “ripping” people off, in fact quite the opposite and one of the most generous people I know. She is an amazing woman and is more interested in wanting to make her life better and be an inspiration to others who are wanting to do the same.
She is far from being associated with any form of religion-my goodness. Avatar (http://www.avatarepc.com) in fact, is a way for people to learn to remove the limiting beliefs that hold them back from reaching their full potential and to have more compassion for others. Seems like that is needed here.
@ Tully in regard to Briony Pettigrew. I’m sure you are right in saying that she is an amazing person, however the same can be said for most of the distributors of the LLI/Polaris/$cientology scam.
They are people, who in trying to do the best for their families have been suckered into giving sometimes more money than they can afford to the parasites who run the scam. These people in turn need to recruit others into the scam/cult so that they can try to recoup their losses. Unfortunately, giveopp is just another incarnation of the pyramid scam and is indeed closely associated with rabid $cientologists Shannon & John Lavenia.
There is simply no defense for the avatar cult which is really “son of $cientology”. One only has to check out the wiki for avatar’s founder, one Harry Palmer, to realise that the claws of Hubbard etc. sink deep into their pound of flesh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Palmer_%28author%29
yes John Stalvey was the guy we were told by the extreme team/ including Glanville, ran quicklister and that Glanville and others made no profits from it since it was for the team growth.
What a load of BS! Jay Kubbassek caught on to their BS including the Lavenias who JK outproduced most months but that was not to be broadcasted. They kicked JK out and now look at them all trying to be where JK is today. Rather they are grasping at straws.
JK knew that most people failed and tried to increase their odds of success. These others will stop at nothing to fool people time and again to take more of their money from them until their plan fails again and they move on to the next scam. I call these fakes “modern day snake oil salespeople”. For these profiteers there will be many losers.
Stop following these people like puppets. Do something you can be proud of and then share your 10% with the poor, if you so decide. These scammers want you to think that you are getting rich while doing something great for the world—wake up stupid! They are lining their pockets with your money and they count on your greed for money to guarantee their success.
Do you want to become like them? Its your choice and I hope you and your kids are happy to see that you make money from the stupidity of others even the ones who have trusted your guidance for worthy goals.
As for John Lavenia, all you do is crap out the same words and ideas that can be found in our local library. I guess you found a way to get paid by regurgitation. Well sure beats diesel engines huh? You claim to be so wealthy, so why not retire and work your magic to poor and underprivileged people instead of taking more advantage of fools. Don’t let those ridiculous compliments that your sheep give you, blind you forever.
Here’s a quote from John Lavenia on GiveOpp’s Facebook page:
LMFAO – its hilarious when dumbasses try to appear smart. John Lavenia, self published author and dictionary rapist.
I’m still trying to figure out if GiveOpp actually does anything more than talk. It’s interesting to me that Brent Payne’s Avant has planned a trip to the Gulf Coast to do hands on charitable work, while GiveOpp does nothing more than talk about charitable work and being “green”.
GiveOpp posts “inspiring” stories and YouTube videos on their Facebook page that have nothing to do with their company – it’s like their trying to take credit for other people’s creativity and goodness.
Good point, Frank. At least Brent is in action. And he’s willing to offer a money-back guarantee on the product he’s making.
Lavenia and the followers are offering a pyramid travel deal and talking about how they will help. Talk. Talk. Talk. 100 people so far have signed to GiveOpp according to Don Silver’s video. 20 people on that video of the “leaders” all excited. Which mean the average leader has enrolled 4 in 2 months.
I can’t imagine a real prospect actually paying $3000 to save money on travel. All of the insiders are here now. Let’s see how they do enrolling real prospects.
haha… i can just imagine Shannon Lavenia getting down and dirty with the community folk, turning the dark soil, donating time and seedlings which will eventually turn into a luscious crop for them to harvest, the poor community folk can then make a minimal wage which will allow them to feed their family and to buy their children shoes…. NOT NOT NOT!!
Shannon Lavenia wouldn’t even know what charitable is. However- She would be able to give you a good description of betrayal, manipulation, decietful, greedy, cold, heartless….
I was involved with $cientology for many years. They are very good at creating attractive lures to hide the hook. Their ‘social’ programs always hide a different purpose. The non disclosure and secret stuff is typical of them.
They are very much a military type of organization and their followers are led to believe that any actions are OK if they forward the $cientology cause.
Thank you Oz for revealing the GiveOpp connection, even if it is not directly $cientology operated, the money that is scammed will almost certainly be used to pay for the outrageously expensive $cientology ‘services’.
All I can see on this page is speculation on GiveOpp, because nobody actually knows anything, and a handful of people who lost money in LLI/POLARIS that are very bitter, I spoke to the guy at GiveOpp, and as stated above, there are 2 options, earn $500 per sale or earn $1000 per sale, and that is it, the interesting thing is, no one on this wall commented on that, apart from one who then started on about passing up, There is no passing up of sales, that is it.
I am in Forums for all sorts of MLM businesses now, (not in MLM myself, but I sell to MLM’ers as well as any business owner)
It strikes me, that any business that has any member/distributor in it, that have in the past been involved in LLI/POLARIS is going to get a hard time by you guys.
Mike Dillard is one of the biggest internet marketers out there today, ex LLI, Jonathan Budd, ex LLI, are they on your list?
This is what I see when reading through all the comments on the site, It looks like the majority of you were in business with LLI/POLARIS, some of the ones who did not make money are on this blog posting, not many of you at all( and as OZ stated, you are using multiple names to post extra negative comments, that was a good thing to highlight btw Oz).
The majority of people have moved on with their experience to try something else, live and learn, and the guys who did make money with LLI/POLARIS are branded a con artist, by you, It is funny how the people in most businesses that do make money are con artists, even when they are just a distributor like the others.
No one was dragged down the bank at gunpoint to pay their $30k in LLI/POLARIS, You guys will find ex LLI/POLARIS people in every opportunity on the market today, some that did well and some that did not.
There are high LLI/POLARIS earners over in TRUMP, does that make TRUMP a CON? of course not, but some people will loose money there, and start a blog about how the top earners there are con artists, that unfortunately is the world we live in, loose out, and it is always someone else’s fault and never our own.
It looks to me that LLI lost it’s momentum when it changed it’s name and pay plan, before that, everyone was there to make money, including some of you guys.
Bottom line, you guys started in LLI to make big money, to be the top earners, that is why you parted with your money, had it worked out for you, then you would not be here today.
What a load of rubbish” – you are very nieve – you must be young. Go ahead and and join GiveLaveniaOpp – blow your money and we’ll see you back here in 6 months 🙂
All these schemes are pure scams runs by the master themselves who have been scamming for years – in fact that is all they know what to do.
If I was learning to fly I would listen to learn off those experienced in it – not some idiots selling “learn to fly quick scheme for just $$$$” – the internet is full of them.
The guy you talked to in GiveOpp will tell you anything you want to hear to get your MONEY. This is what they do.
And Roger Peters you are very angry. You were on Facebook spewing venom about Scientology. You have been angry for a long time.
The person you should be angry with is YOU. You blame everyone for your lack of success. Your anger has been blocking you for a long time. You enjoy picking fights with anyone that has a contradictory view to yours. Who made you the judge? What makes you the expert?
Not your results.
You lost your traditional business. You sucked at LLI. You blame your Advisor. Your Advisor Delwyn did the same business you did. Why is she a scam artist and you are a victim? You’re either both ok or both not ok.
I guess you sucked and were just a shitty scam artist or Delwny is a shitty victim. I think the latter is the case.
Let’s not leave out that following LLI and your awesome results, you joined TVI, the biggest scam of the decade. And now you sit back like some guru. Get some results and understand how a business works before you believe your the kingbee judge.
This is one of the problems I have with contacting MLM companies. First off they don’t want to just give out information, they want to add me to their marketing lists.
This is evident in the fact that people report getting contacted by company associates months, even years after they’ve left. Often by people they were never directly under and worse still, by associates from companies they never joined.
I refuse to hand over my personal details (at the very least an email) to a company just to obtain information about them. Part of the reason I started BehindMLM up was to counter this secretive culture that has developed in the MLM/Network marketing industry. I’ve actually got this very topic on my list of things to write about so I’ll put up an article on it at some point after going into it further.
I just wanted to clarify that it was only one or two people doing this as far as I can tell. The overwhelming majority of commenters are unique individuals expressing their own opinions.
how is Roger Peters ?
an experience guru thanks
you must be feeling the heat Delwyn
🙂
in fact there was only a handful of poeple make any money in LLI/Polaris – these poeple willing to sacrifice any and all “integrity” and sell themselves out in the name of their own pockets….hey Delwyn
PS. Lavenia’s book “Integrity is Everything” made good fire starting material but hell did it STICK
get results? is that what you got Delwyn McKenzie
–let me ask you this – of the poeple that supposedly gave you an income of $500k in 2009 – how many made any money ?
NOONE
I doubt Delwyn is reading any of this Roger. I’ve also read your rants on FB and have you blocked now, your anger comes through loud and clear and something I do not relish to expose myself to much more of.
ha a double assault – fellow EMC gone to GiveLavenaiOpp?
nice try – didnt work.
I hear a rumor that Delwyn has had to leave the country – was it the IRD or Internal Affairs ?
wonderful quote; Roger Peters is a very angry man; what is his problem; he made money in LLI so why isnt he grateful? his life is clearly a mess. how many of these blogs are his?
All of them. Oz is Roger Peters.
what the ferk? OZ ?
I dont think so – he is simply a man who cares for poeple and detestes the way that conartists ripe poeple off with scams like LLI, Polaris, GiveOpp, LIfepath – any of these 2 minute wonders.
Gess Oz these idiots must be hurting to come to this forum to try and save there scamming “business”.It worked before with the demise of Polaris and it will/is working again.
Go and get a job you scammers and stop your predatory ways.
to all you scammers out there, I suspect just maybe 2 who are involved in this discussion attempting to discrete Roger Peters – you have used the internet to rip off others – the internet will be used to stop you. 🙂
Just giving Susan what she wants.
Can i join in too?
Susan, GiveOPP is an amazing opportunity. Do not listen to all the negative talk here. You will be making heaps of money and helping people at the same time. It’s an incredible opportunity that you cannot let slip by.
“Life is 10% of what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it”
“Whoever does not try, does not learn”
You are your own destiny, Susan, go get em!
P.S. LOL.
Sure. But I dunno how you’re going to top the fact that I’m still based in Australia.
yes Susan – bet “at cause” and “just believe…..”
and I remember Racheal Olivers favorite “Love you guys…”
I guess Roger loves Amway then, cause they are not 2 minute wonders they have been around for 30 something years- hey Rog?
@rogering – there is an immense difference between a MLM like Amway that actually sells real products with value for small sums and a LLI/Lifepath type “biz” that really sells nothing but “feel good”, for rediculous amounts of money, and dreams and is absolutely proven to be unsustainable.
This sort of “business opp” is a pure conjob – dressed up in a fancy production number to suck their victums in.
I wouldnt myself get involved in Amway myself however.
So where’s the launch?
Yeah I was sniffing around yesterday last night after giving them the entire day to launch. Doesn’t seem to be like anything’s changed.
I’ve got a writeup good to go but I figure I’ll see if anything happens today before I publish.
i stumbled on this blog by accident – yes it happens ocassionally – and all i can say, if you like being scammed, flush your money down the toilet – cheaper.
interesting to know about mike dillard. didn’t know that. may regret this but just wanting to know is he a rip off merchant or not? i can’t quite work it out and i didn’t know he was involved with lli/polaris.
oz i don’t know anything about you and don’t even know where you live/what you do/don’t do, but the ads were the first thing i noticed on this blog and am wondering are you advertising how bad they are on one hand and promoting them on the other. the travel club one that has got me very intriqued and am wondering how legit are they.
was tried to be conned with the coins but didn’t fall for that one. may have though lost some money on some of the internet marketing things because i never knew this blog existed, how involved those from lli/polaris/scientolgy are in these networks.
The ads served on BehindMLM are through the Google Adsense program. Any concerns or queries regarding the quality of the ads shown on their network should be directed to the Google Adsense team.
Numis?
This blog isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to MLM company research but over time I hope to make it a substantial resource for those looking into the various MLM opportunities out there.
Thanks for reading, glad to hear your finding the site useful.
Andy Phelps (A giveopp pre-launcher former LLI) video on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpIvLGkZpqM
Toward the end of the video he mentions that “John” (gee could it be Lavenia?) has pocketed $120,000 so far in pre-launch.
$3,000 to buy a travel package to save money and save the world.
And the Lavenias.
$120,000? Wow life at the top is good.
just remember these scammers will say anything to convince their “devotees” to part with there cash. They have no morals.
I just found this site today by typing giveopp into Google because a good friend of mine is on the beta team for this new GiveOpp company. I’ve known this guy for about 4 years now. He’s the person who attracted me to the Reverse Funnel System via a craigslist ad.
Now I’ll confess that I never made any money, but I didn’t have much of a clue about IM in general at the time and consequently didn’t put in much effort due mostly to overwhelm of promotion options and lack of focus and self confidence.
My friend, who I’ve grown to know quit well in 4 years however, made about 90K in six months in RFS and ONLY used CL. Had he known half of what either of us know now, I’m sure he would have done even better. I know for a fact that he was neither anywhere near the “inner circle” nor is he even close to any kind of scam artist.
RFS was a mktg.funnel for Global Resorts Network. I still own the GRN/Gold Crown Resorts travel product that I spent 3K on, so I can’t say I got ripped off, although I have recently seen a newer version of just about the same thing on Clickbank for much MUCH less money. So there is certainly room for debate about the rip off part, and knowing what I know now, I would have to say that it IS a bit scammy to sell anyone something for 3K when they can get virtually the same exact thing for around $200. But people pay far more for all kinds of products everyday, than they can be found for elsewhere and if people aren’t wise enough to do their due diligence than they are at fault also, but I still find it very hard not to fault the price gougers far more.
As for the MLM industry in general, there is plenty of both good solid properly structured companies as well as total scams and rip offs. But then there are good doctors / bad doctors, good lawyers / bad lawyers, good cops / bad cops, good used car salesmen / plenty of bad ones. Just the world we live in.
As for the the term “pyramid scheme”, I get so SO sick of hearing this term so heavily associated with MLM / network marketing. If you stop long enough to look at the structure of ANY company, it is usually stuctured basically like a pyramid and so are law enforcement, military, and government organizations. You have a chief or commander and chief, or a CEO at the very top who will always make more money than anyone below him and as you go down through the org. it gets wider and wider with more workers making less money at each level all the way down to the entry level positions.
If you went to work for IBM or Ford Motor Company today starting in the mail room, how long would it take you to advance to a six figure income, or to surpass the manager that hired you?
If you join a PROPERLY STRUCTURED MLM / network marking company and you work your butt off, you can not only pass the person who brought you in, but also hit a six figure income withing your first year or two. So for anyone who thinks all MLM Companies are evil scam artists, …PLEASE…put a cork in it. You obviously have NOT done your homework.
With that said…HELL YES there are plenty of rip offs and scam artist in the industry. Then again, you’ll find such people in almost any industry, it’s just the world we live in. The only difference is that few industries offer anywhere near the income potential right out of the gate. Seems to be the money that makes all the difference in the ranting and raving.
It’s been well documented in studies done in both wealthy and poor countries alike, that most people would rather end up with nothing than to see a stranger get more. They sat 2 strangers at a table with a hundred dollars. One got to decide how they would split it (keep in mind this is totally free money for both and in some of the poor countries, even $20 is a couple days wages) and the other got to decide if it was acceptable or neither got any. In almost every case, once it hit about 70/30 the 2nd person would turn down the free $30 just to prevent the other from getting more than they got. Seems to be an ugly little quirk in our human nature.
I bring this up only to highlight the vengeance that most have (usually unconfessed) towards others who make out far better financially than they do.
Most of us have all heard that 90% of the wealth in the world is in the hands of only about 10 – 15% of the population. EVER WONDER exactly why that’s been so for centuries????????? As well, most are familiar with the common IM phraseology referring to “The Top 1%” of income earners. So I ask you… is 10% of the world running a scam on all the rest of us??? Or is it possible that a large majority of us are just not Donald Trumps when it comes to business and success, and when we get notions of wealth and financial independence / freedom then fail, we want to fault anything or anyone but ourselves, and will go to GREAT lengths to do so.
As for this site, I think this is a great idea and is certainly not only needed, but bound to help clean up the ugly side of the industry.
As for ads on this site, like Oz said, it’s Adwords people! Google decides which ads to display NOT the site owner, so again I say… put a cork in it.
As for Scientology…thanks for the heads up about a possible connection, because that is a cause I most certain do NOT wish to contribute to or be associated with.
As for the notion that a blogger who’s intent is to provide helpful / valuable content, and they put many precious hours into their effort, why the hell shouldn’t they make good money for it. Just because something is on the Internet does NOT mean that effort to help others should not be financially rewarded. Try that one on your dentist or chiropractor, or marriage counselor. So quit getting your little panties all in a wad because someone is actually making money at what they do online.
As for pedafiles…of ANY brand or denomination, as someone who was sexually molested as I child myself, I think they should all just be shot in the head on the spot. And that’s the kindest thing I can think of. The trauma and devastation to ANY child is far FAR worse than a bullet.
The inside info that I have on this “new version” of RFS,(GiveOpp) is that it will launch within a week or two. In all good conscience, I not only don’t see getting involved myself, but am also trying to break the news to my friend that he should look much more closely himself.
Thanks Oz! I like your site and will be bookmarking it.
Jeff in Oregan – a delight to read your post – it is not full of BS, anger or finger pointing like most on this site! thanks!!
@Jeff
Hey Jeff, thanks for stopping by and commenting. I just had a few points of yours I wanted to comment on.
Whilst based purely on salary alone, statistics wise it can look like a pyramid, the operation of such companies and organisations is vastly different.
Law enforcement, the military and government organisations employees are all paid salaries. MLM associates, members and distributors are not. There is also zero financial risk in being employed by any of these organisations and no financial incentive to recruit others. You also don’t directly profit from recruiting others either, nor from the work they do.
These aren’t minor differences, they’re fundamental to the difference in operation between MLM companies and ‘traditional businesses and organisations.
This cannot happen in MLM unless they become inactive and/or leave the company voluntarily. You might earn more then them but you will always be part of their downline and thus they will make profit off you and your downline.
You will never be in a position of ‘management’ with your upline, so to speak.
A common statistic thrown around is that only 1-2% of members of any MLM company (sometimes far, far less) actually make any money. Income potential is non-existant if it’s not backed by a decent achievable percentage rate.
That’s like saying the lottery has great income potential. I mean sure it does, but probability wise is it even remotely achievable?
With a traditional business in most western countries you are at least guaranteed the wage you signed on your employment contract.
Hmm interesting. I wonder what launch is now? From what I understand GiveOpp were in beta before, did they launch into alpha on July 4th? I’d have thought if they were launching (relaunching?) they’d be making a big press release hoo and haa about it like they did their July 4th launch.
To throw some extra confusion into the mix someone emailed me the other day stating they’d heard that GiveOpp actually launched properly on Facebook. What that means I have no idea? How do launch something on a third party platform and still maintain zero online presence?
Thanks mate, glad you got some value out of it. I haven’t been updating here as much as I’d like to due to a crazy work and lifestyle schedule at the moment.
Still, one by one with each article written I hope over time I contribute something towards cleaning up the MLM industry. Thanks for reading.
I’ve been a succesful business man for several years. If this business is related to Scientology, I’m in. Anyone against it, is against humanity and find it difficult to see others are doing or will do well. You can say all you want, you just don’t get it, and probably never will. Any philosophy working for the betterment of the human kind should be respected and supported even if you don’t belong to it. If anyone tries to make you follow their beliefs, it’s up to you to decide, unless you’re so stupid that you can’t control your power to decide.
The way I see it, Giveopp is about helping others. To help others money is needed. To raise the money, they combine two important things, extra income and quality time with your loved ones. The base here is to help people. This is ONLY for those interested in helping people. And the $3k, you can make them with your commissions. No need to ask for a loan or risk your savings. $3K is a lot of money, but that’s money that will help people. Those $3K are more than business. They are meals, water, education and plus, you can enjoy quality time with your family or just go to help people in need with your own hands. That’s where you’ll see if doing a business that thinks about people is worth it, or not.
It’s too soon for supporters and non-supporters to say anything about the results. This is like saying that your newborn child will be a failure or a success based on your personal experiences.
Many of the people in this blog are focusing on destroying an idea that is just beginning. I’ve made my money, and I’ve built my businesses by not hearing people like you guys, by ignoring them and just following my instincts and by observing, by looking. I can see a good business by how is attacked. The more is being attacked, the more I’m attracted to it. Even at my age, that’s still key to my success.
So, stop telling others what’s good and what’s not. Just encourage them to do the necessary research by themselves and feel good because you’re doing the right thing. A business could not work for you, but that gives you no right to give an opinion. Everyone has an opinion, keep it to yourself.
Boys and girls, take responsibility for your loses and wins, live and let live. Anyone blaming others and trying to find the weaknesses of others still need a lot to grow in terms of business. So far, you’re not an example at all.
If you don’t like this business, don’t do it and shut up. If you like it, do it and shut up. If you think you should do something against a possible scam, go to the proper authorities.
Typical $cientology crap
Everyone except you, right?
Please don’t refer to Scientology and helping humanity in the same paragraph… the two couldn’t possibly be any further apart. Scientology itself would have to be one of the biggest scams of the past fifty or so years.
GiveOpp and many of the others are just a branch off the old Scientology scam tree. By the way, that’s my opinion, and I ain’t keeping it to myself.
yeah right Ive heard all this before – if fact Im sure I recognise the style – feeling the heat John Lavenia?
Hi there! I am with GiveOpp….and absolutely love it! It’s nothing to do with scientology…and I AM NOT A SCIENTOLOGIST! But I do believe that people are allowed to be whatever they want to be.
Why is it that you have to do so much scare-mongering? It’s a sad fact of life that we all have our own opinions…but those opinions should not be allowed to cause others harm. I personally love opinions…because as Clint Eastwood said…”Opinions are like ass****s, every one’s got one”…and differences of opinion allow us to look at things and situations from a different perspective to our own, which in turns allows us to make more informed decisions for ourselves.
My only advice to anyone listening to all this stuff, is…at least go to the site and see for yourself before forming an idea about something that doesn’t exist. It is a fantastic company model and we are helping to make our world a better place for all.
And just for the record…I was one of those who were with Liberty League and Polaris…and yes I failed terribly & lost a lot of money. But I am so happy and successful with this business that I wake up in the mornings bouncing off the walls. I love knowing that my efforts help to feed familys, supply fresh drinking water, help animals and assist in the conservation of our planet. I believe in what I do….passionately!
Sadly…this gumph of trying to put a Scientology slant to it is very sad. I’m sure that if you did a survey amongst those involved, you would find all cultures and religions. In fact, I think I would even be able to say – without having done a survey of my own, that Scientologists would rank very low in percentage. There is good and bad in all…hence the saying; “The sinner lives within the saint, and the saint lives within the sinner.”
Please be careful with how you paint people and their efforts, because at the end of the day, there is one fundamental truth…What you sow is what you reap. It would be very sad if you reaped a whole bunch of unhappiness and bad experiences, for nothing more than wanting to vent an opinion…and that based on nothing more than your own assumptions.
Assumptions are the mother of all cock ups, as we all know. So please all you readers, look a little further than what you are being told here…it’s not true at all. If you would like to have an insiders look at the company feel free to contact me at info@debbiewilsononline.com and I’d be happy to give you a more balanced view and let you decide for yourself…based entirely on the facts.
Wishing you all the most fantastic experiences that life has to offer. With love and light…Debbie:-)
Debbie again…I now see that my comment is awaiting MODERATION??? What’s the point of posting a comment…if it is going to be changed??? Sad….very, very sad! What a pity!
@Debbie – oh dear – its called the honeymoon period – the state of excitment, based on the lies you have been told of the money you will make and life you will save – then reality will set in – and you will realise that they screwed you – plan and simple.
Then you will get angry and come back to this forum and contribute – UNLESS you loss all sence of reality and self respect and become, as the “leaders” are – just another internet scam liar.
@GoodTech
Sounds a bit worrying that you’d so readily join an opportunity just because it’s related to Scientology. What about research and investigating the nuts and bolts of the business?
Anyone against
scientology, uh I mean giveopp is against humanity? Hmm, sounds a bit fair game policy don’t you think?Note I’m not suggesting GiveOpp is Scientology, but I’m find it hard to distinguish whether you’re talking about Scientology or GiveOpp in your reply.
GiveOpp is a travel club with the proceeds of each trip you take going to a charity of your choosing. Charity is hardly it’s primary focus, which of course like any MLM is rolling in those commissions.
However as it stands GiveOpp is cleverly being marketed to this effect.
Well that’s a wonderful way to choose business opportunities now isn’t it.
‘Hmm, people are criticising this business so without any further research I’m interested. What’s that… they’re related to Scientology too?… OMG SIGN ME UP YESTERDAY!’
Or I could do the research myself and feel good anyway. Much more beneficial then directing people towards the annoying reverse funnel marketing system GiveOpp are using.
A world in which nobody shares any information or exerpiences… sounds to me like a scammers paradise.
@Debbie Wilson
Opinions are subjective, what might harm some might benefit others. If everybody worried about potentially harming people with their opinions nobody would be discussing anything.
Well, that would be great advice if GiveOpp weren’t utilising the reverse funnel marketing system. A quick visit to their website reveals absoltuely nothing about the business opportunity unless you fork over some money.
Much easier to have a read of ‘GiveOpp: The product, compensation plan and review‘. I’ve done all the homework for you.
Well shouldn’t you be all the more aware of the speculation about Scientology and GiveOpp then? Whilst now it appears that the two aren’t related, prior to information being extraced and published about GiveOpp they weren’t giving anything away unless you forked over some money. The only public faces we had of the company where John and Shannon Lavenia, who might I remind you was caught peddling Scientology courses to Polaris Media Group members.
Then there was the whole alleged demanding Polaris Media Group EMC members attend Scientology courses. Is it any wonder with so little information being presented by GiveOpp itself that people were speculating?
If you want to be mysterious and attempt to maintain a tight lock on information about your business opportunity, you can’t expect to be taken seriously when people attempt to make educated guesses on the nature of your business based on your past performance in other companies.
Or you could simply read ‘GiveOpp: The product, compensation plan and review‘. It’s got video footage, the product, what you’ll be selling and information on the compensation plan – all the stuff you actually need to make a viable judgement on the GiveOpp business opportunity itself.
Having to pay $50-$60 just to find out basic information about a business opportunity is a farce.
Comment moderation does not automatically mean that comments will be changed. Moderation exists for a number of reasons on BehindMLM, primarily to stop people flooding the site with spam crap. To date moderation has prevented over four thousand spam comments from going live.
Having said that, I do edit the punctuation of quite a few of the comments that appear here to make the site easier to read. 99.9% of the time though that’s done without editing the content itself. Also depending on some criteria I’ve set, most people’s comments go live without any moderation.
Moderation and blog comments have been around for years, welcome to the internet.
I have been a member of GiveOpp for about four months and have found the business and the leadership to be 1st class.
Roger, what you have been saying is the most furtherest thing AWAY from reality!!! PLEASE reconsider what you have been saying. I know it’s 2 months old but your whole LIFE & HAPPINESS depend on it!
‘This honeymoon period state of being’ could also be called ‘bliss’ and you actually know that you came from bliss? Before you were born you were in bliss and after you die you will return to bliss.
That’s why people love love. Love is the most amazing thing this universe has to offer. And you thinking that she is delusional is actually you being delusional and wanting to be right.
If you had any self-respect you would listen to your emotions and listen to what they have to say.
They tell you that wanting to be right all the time causes stress and stress causes disease and disease causes death. And that’s why there are so many people dying on this planet.
For nothing.
Because they don’t know how to live, they only know how to die…they do it every day, they die the slow death and don’t even notice…
I have compassion for all those poor souls who don’t recognize the beauty of life…the beauty within a flower, the beauty of the wind blowing through hair…the beauty of a child smiling….the beauty of a sunrise…this makes me cry, to see you in suffering and not being able to do anything but to stress out just like you do.
I’d perfer to be called ‘just another internet scam liar.’ than die poor and unhappy…because I believe in abundance I have no problem with other people not believing in it 🙂
Yeah that’s right you tell them!
The smell of coffee in the morning…the sun shining on ducks in the local pond…the sound of rain at night… oh wait, what the f- does this have to do with a business?
You sir, are Exhibit A B and C when it comes to finding suckers online.
Shannon Lavenia is going to enjoy draining every last cent from your bank account, and then some.
Oh wait, what am I on about? Shannon Lavenia is the most caring person on Earth. She’s giving back! It says so, right there on the internet, so it MUST be true!
I’m not having a go at ya for your intentions, I understand you mean well, and that part’s all well and good. But being naive to online MLM scams is just pure stupidity, and not only will you not learn the hard way the first time, you’ll jump right into the next MLM scam to come along, won’t ya?
Actually, come to think of it, others usually see people like you as good people who don’t mean any harm, but just get caught up in all the hype and brainwashing… but I disagree.
What usually happens after you realise what a bad business decision this has become is you still try and get others involved – scaring away all your family and friends – almost knowing that their chances of success is very low, should they be sucked in. And that, in my opinion, makes you a sh!t person, not a good person.
Good luck with all that.
I… really don’t know what to say. I did think about writing a post addressing your article as the penultimate in naivety but… I’m going to restrain myself as I’m not sure you’d be able to take the criticism.
I will mention however that just because someone writes a book and calls it ‘integrity is everything’ doesn’t magically equate to them in no way possible being able to manipulate people or conduct any other deceiving behaviour. If by virtue I renamed BehindMLM ‘Thisistheblogof100%infallabletruth’ would that cause you to have had any less of a negative reaction to the information contained therein?
A book title is a book title, nothing more – it’s certainly not a guage of one’s character or personality.
I guess if you’re happy for now then that’s all that really matters, good look with your uh.. vortexes and love.
Wow Phil – I have certainly “hit the nail on the head” – “exposed a raw nerve”….
I was once where u were Phi, or at least who you are pretending to be – reality had long since tought me a hard lessson.
The biggest regret is the fact that this sort of scam has had a very negative association with a very real philsophy
Others seem to know who you are – so get real Shannon Levinea and get a real life …
Roger
NZ
You guys are funny xD actually I’m just teaching now what I should be living, so please apologize my lack of self-discipline…Critizism is the WORST thing you can do!
his is how we have been raised: “You shouldn’t do this” – “You are inappropriate in this and this way” – “YOU WILL FAIL AT LIFE” – “…oh just because you did?
Just because I have dreams, or we have dreams I should listen to you? Someone who put his life in a garbage can and cut the dreams out of his/her life when he/she was 5?”
I know it hurts to be raised as a child on this planet (and please consider that most people run around with a hurt-child-mentality ALL DAY not even THINKING of healing themselves) but our past doesn’t have to equal our future.
Do you know the power of your statement?
Quote: “What usually happens after you realise what a bad business decision this has become is you still try and get others involved – scaring away all your family and friends”
This is a self-fulfilling prophesy of a reality NO-ONE wants to live. You get bad karma for that…lol.
You live in lack…just your thoughts of “Shannon Lavenia is going to enjoy draining every last cent from your bank account, and then some.” expresses that you believe that there is a ‘pot of money’ and if she gets more than her fair share then she deprives everyone else of their piece of the cake… and I can tell you that this is not how it is in reality.
Infinite abundance is the reality. Every desire any person has, has the ability to turn into manifestation.
If you believe otherwise then it’s not because there is a pot that is empty…it’s only because you believe that there is a pot that is empty. It’s that simple, duh o.o
Instead of bashing the industry that has created more self-made millionaires than any other industry why not make the best of what’s available on this planet?
As long as there is no system that allows everyone – AND I MEAN EVERYONE – to be a millionaire I’m happy with the one we’ve got and just learn the most from what we have.
It actually doesn’t matter if you start with MLM, Franchising or write a book and publish it or become a singer. You can become happy, fulfilled and abundant in any way, there are millions of ways…so why are we fighting? xD
what a crcok of shit. Its not an industry it is pure scam.
Millionaires..? like who…..Delwyn McKenzie, John Lavenia, Shane Krider …I doubt any of these poeple have an connection with reality …they simply have lost themselves in the “talk” deep in the sientology trap and live by lying and stealing of their poor excitable nieve victums.
I dunno what kind of upbringing you had but I certainly wasn’t raised with the mindset of being inappropriate or failing at life. Having a critical mind and failing or being inappropriate do not automatically go hand in hand.
Infact there’s little to no relation between the two (or three) concepts.
uh… there’s a certain amount of people on this planet for you to market to with a fixed amount of money sitting in their bank accounts.
That’s a cold hard fact and stating the world is full of infinite abundance is simply a lie.
Even the single most thing we have in abundance on this planet, hydrogen, is still not infinitely abundant.
There is no system that allows everyone to be a millionaire otherwise everyone would be a millionaire.
@oz – youre a person of undying patiance Oz – to continually point out the most basic of things to such poeple – good on you Oz.
Then please tell me, do you ever worry that someone else might get all the air and you will run out of air because someone else used it all up? Do you carry bags of air with you in the fear that there might not be enough in where you are going?
I don’t know how much you are creating your reality by design, so I cannot talk about that with you.
Do you think there is no such system that will allow everyone to become a millionaire or do you think that it just hasn’t been discovered yet? The technology to fly has existed before flight existed, which means that man didn’t ‘invent’ flight, he discovered it, he stumbled upon it.
“there’s a certain amount of people on this planet for you to market to with a fixed amount of money sitting in their bank accounts.
That’s a cold hard fact and stating the world is full of infinite abundance is simply a lie.”
That’s exactly what I’m on. I’m telling a lie, because I don’t like the reality, I’m changing reality, I’m not just fixated on WHAT IS. And that’s why I’m telling a different story. I’m not telling the story that is ‘true’, the story that has been manifested for a long time and no-one liked, I’m telling the story that no-one dares to tell, but everyone wants to live…
What you are doing is like turning on the TV and happen to land on a channel you don’t like and then someone asks you: “Why don’t you change it?” – “And you say, I don’t know, it’s on… My mother has been watching this channel, my father has been watching this channel, it’s just what we do here, we watch this channel.” – “But do you like it?” – “No.” – “Then why don’t you change…?”
I think the biggest hang-up we are having (like most people nowadays on this planet)is that we are trying to agree. And I should be smarter because I know that we don’t need agreement in order for us to live happily together as co-creators (even if you don’t believe me xD)
Never focus on something ‘because it’s right’…today I made that mistake and I almost lost 2 friends. Because I wanted to be right, instead of having a good time. Wanting to feel good, wanting to have a good time is more important than wanting to be right (at least for me now).
So yea, just because you see alotta shit in MLM doesn’t mean that it will make your life better to point it out and tell everyone about it (just my opinion)
loving,
Phill
There are two kind of life lessons… the kind that kills you, and the kind that you learn from.
If a poisonous snake bites you, and there’s no anti-venom nearby, it’s “hi to next life”. No amount of positive thinking will save you, though positive thinking may get you to last a wee bit longer until help arrives.
The other kind, a very painful lesson, is when you try to pet a snake, and the snake bit you. Fortunately it’s not poisonous, but you’ve learned how NOT to handle a snake.
Or you can be TAUGHT how NOT to handle a snake and skip the painful lesson.
There is a difference between putting people down (i.e. ego-bashing) and criticism. Criticism in general, is constructive, and is aimed at the weak points, with the intent to improve. It’s sometimes known as “constructive criticism”.
Back to the snake example… there’s a difference between
“Don’t get close to any snakes or you’ll get bitten.”
vs.
“To handle a snake, you have to know them by ID them by sight, then you have to have the right equipment, like those pincers on a remote arm, and you have to grab them as close to the head to prevent them from snapping back at you. And have a dark and sturdy sack to hold them…”
The former is negativity, the latter is constructive criticism.
Don’t dismiss ALL criticism just because they sound negative. Without pain, you will not learn. Your life is a sum of ALL your experiences, not just the positive ones.
I detect a rant in progress.
There’s nothing wrong with positive thinking, switching to half-full view instead of half-empty view, but only when it is BASED IN REALITY. About a glass that contains 50% of capacity in H2O, both views are equally valid.
As the world is NOT infinite, and the population is NOT infinite, AND the actual wealth in the world is NOT infinitely, by definition the market CANNOT be infinite.
You can expand the market by dropping the prices, improve distribution, but you cannot make it infinite. Not even the government can do that. They can print more money, but that’ll just create inflation (i.e. the money will worth less). The only way to create wealth is through trade, which adds value
So tell me Phill, because I want to understand, tell me more about this business.
I already know about “giving back”… what else is there? How many people on your “team”? How much money you making exactly, without answering “I’m on my way to making heaps of money”? How much money have you spent? What work are you doing exactly? How many hours? If it’s so good, I wanna know exactly what’s so good about it. Tell me what I’m missing out on.
Thank you for the information regarding “giveopp”. It just confirmeds the suspicions I already had, which is how I came across this blog.
I broke my own rule by giving my contact info to them even though the advertisement gave no information what-so-ever about what they actually do. But they put up a good Ad and it caught my piqued my interest. I Submitted my email and seconds later I got a call from John while I was still on their site.
I then received an email from them (which was my free report for checking them out) which contained nothing of any really value. It was a really lengthy PDF that said nothing new at all, standard positive thinking type of stuff.
The next email I got from them (the Lavenias) contained a link to their website that would tell me all about the opportunity. The website contained the usual Red Flags for scams (fancy cars, property, money, and exotic places).
By this time I had already suffered through to long Ads or presentations that still left me wondering what the product was. I got a little more from this site, but it still left me not exactly sure what their product is, and not at all informed about how I would make money from it.
But first, I was put off by the inconsistencies with the first Ad that I saw which touted that it was unlike anything else, and that it was NOT MLM, and also that they had been in the business 5 years and gave mention of how much SOME were making per year.
Well, its seems to be exactly like other “models out there, like the “make a wish” foundation where the telemarketers are made to feel good about their jobs because a small percentage of the money donated actually does go to the childrens foundation; and also those companies that have people (people they round up from the homeless shelters) standing at the entrance ways of stores (walmarts, walgreens, cvs, grocery stores, ect) and ask for money for the children.
At the end of the night the can hold gets a percentage of however much they were given, and the rep from the company takes the rest away back to the office to divvy up between the company and whatever charity they say they are promoting.
Same business model for all.
Then they say that they are a new concept, a new business starting up, but in the previous Ad they stated a number of years they had been around, and ref’d the incomes that SOME were making per year with this business. No matter how they defend those statements, it was still intentional deceit in the first Ad I saw .
I think its selling TimeShares, or maybe just buying one TimeShare at a very hefty price tag (for todays economy ), but extremely discounted being a member of “giveopp”and all.
Before the product was introduced, I sat through quite a few minutes of being shown how much I could make via multiple levels of marketing. The first promised commission that I would make would be HUGE as far as commissions go, but the 2nd level commission would be even more (double in fact) after I bring someone else into the company and they make a sell, and on and on.
I’m not sure if the “GiveOpp” rep just buys one package for themselves to get into the company, or if they just keep selling the packages to others, just bring others into the company or a combination. But I’m fairly intelligent person, at least as intelligent as the next person is, no problems understanding, so the fact that I’m still not sure what they do or how they do it even after watching their provided material is exactly my point. And its their shortcoming, not mine.
I’m looking for a business opportunity, not a bunch of dots that don’t seem to actually connect at any point.
So I first buy a package, then I sell a package and get a commission, the company takes of cut of that sale, the company then gives a cut of that same sale to one of their partner organizations in philanthropy who then “feed the children”. Somewhare along the way, I sign some other people up for the business opportunity because that’s how I make my “larger commissions”.
Another thing that turned me off right off the bat was that the first Ad I saw stated that “while most businesses will put out a disclaimer saying that these results are not typical, the results that he was showing in his first Ad were VERY typical”, but then when you get the “all about the opportunity” video the first thing he does is mention the disclaimer that not all results are typical (he tries to cover it by saying that announcing the disclaimer is a mandatory business requirement or something like that. (thats outright, intentional deceit, if the disclaimer is necessary then he shouldn’t be making a point of stating the exact opposite of his disclaimer as a selling point). The disclaimer is also displayed at the end.
I would strongly suggest that anyone considering the “GiveOpp” opportunity or any other opportunity read those disclaimers thoroughly. They are comical the way they repeat the same thing over and over, that the results are not typical, that the claims are from individuals and have NOT been verified for accuracy or truthfullness, and that some persons might NOT MAKE ANY MONEY AT ALL with their program, and how background, education, experience, and determination play a big role in your individual outcome.
At the beginning of the sales pitch it was “easy, fast money, little or no education or experience needed, anyone with a desire can make “sic” money as he put it.
I say read it, because when you go back to them later wanting your money back they are certainly going to reiterate it to you.
Thanks for sharing your experience with GiveOpp Ms Kay.
There’s some very detailed nuggets of information there that will no doubt be very useful to those researching the opportunity.
Entrepreneurs make up a large chunk of self made millionaires, but that doesn’t mean they were all involved in Network Marketing.
The top 3 industries with self made millionaires are:
* Software and Technology
* Media and Entertainment
* Real Estate
Which non-profits does GiveOpp work with?
Most, if not all, MLMs donate money to charity or support specific causes, and you can usually find a page on their website stating that. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
After reading into this post and doing some simple internet research, I get the feeling that this company GiveOpp and it’s founders are exploiting people’s goodwill for their own personal gain.
It’s that they charge people money to learn more….you just don’t see that with legitimate companies. And they appear to be secretive, another red flag. And their website says that they’re still in prelaunch? But this post is about about 9 months old. Poor management and attention to detail, which is another red flag.
Words on a website should be easy to change, I mean I’m going to click a button in a few seconds, and my comment will be on this website.
See? It worked.
Looks like the Give Opp team has finally found the “system” that will make this thing go “viral”.
http://www.viralincomesystem.com/jvguy/?a=Suzy
I don’t usually allow affiliate style links but there doesn’t seem to be any other way to view the linked video.
Seems like the ‘humanitarian’ message of GiveOpp has all but dissappeared and the message is now simply ‘it’s all about the money’.
I’m actually surprised it took this long for GiveOpp to drop their charitable marketing spiel. All along it’s obviously been just a smokescreen to detract away from the fact it’s simply a recruitment based matrix based compensation plan.
Not sure how relevant this is now (5 years after this review), but John Stalvey is now running TravelAuthority.net
Looks like it is most likely a recruitment based ponzi scam.
That domain is coming up 404 on my end.