MMM South Africa bank accounts frozen
An investigation into MMM Global by the South African National Consumer Commission appears to be making progress, with news yesterday of investor’s bank accounts being frozen.
MMM South Africa is the name of the MMM Global Ponzi scheme’s South African branch, with our review of the scheme noting that
as of September 2015, it had spread rapidly in South Africa with a claimed 1% per day or 30% per month interest rate scheme.
In South Africa,
the Consumer Protection Act describes any scheme that offers returns 20% above the repo rate (6.25%) as a “multiplication scheme” – otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme.
The Reserve Bank of South Africa is in charge of regulating securities in South Africa, with Capitec bank licensed by the regulator to offer banking services.
Claiming to ‘protect our clients and comply with the rules and regulations of the SA Reserve Bank‘, the bank has frozen accounts of suspected MMM South Africa investors.
Capitec said it could not comment on specifics, as it would not be in the best interest of clients affected.
Previously, in discussing its fraud prevention technologies, Capitec noted that its systems act on suspicious transactions.
In these cases, dubious transactions through accounts could result in a “soft-freeze”, until more clarity is obtained about the origin of the transaction.
The freezes are likely the result of MMM South Africa investors tripping money laundering filters at the bank. As a precaution banks typically freeze accounts and submit suspicious activity reports with the appropriate regulator.
Whether the Reserve Bank of South Africa themselves are investigating MMM South Africa however is unclear.
Disgruntled MMM South Africa Ponzi investors have purportedly taken to social media to vent their frustration, with BusinessTech reporting;
users of the scheme say the scheme works just like a stokvel, and that the banks should not get involved in how they spend their money.
“Capitec bank should stop freezing people’s money. This is our hard earned cash how we spend its none of your business. It’s our decision to donate to each other to reach our goals! Capitec hands off our accounts,” one client said.
For those unfamiliar with the term, a “stokvel” is a communal fund, wherein invited members deposit funds which are redistributed out to individual members over a set time period.
The concept differs to MMM Global and MMM South Africa, as participants are not promised a ROI greater than the total amount of funds invested.
Earlier this week Chinese authorities issued a warning against investing in MMM China, a local Chinese chapter of the scam.
MMM China purportedly collapsed late last year. Owner and operator Sergei Mavrodi, a convicted felon, remains at large.
MMM didn’t force its way into RSA, the are legalities which are beyond bank control, how many debt free people now?
The standard of living is upgrading. Banks (Ozedit: are irrelevant)
MMM is doing a protected stokvel and its only interrupted by the so called “world order”.
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator.
We don’t pay people by new members but new members pay themselves by donating/investing the money they need.
Sorry Banks (Ozedit: are irrelevant)
Whatsapp (Ozedit: is also irrelevant)
^^ MMM Global’s business model, QED.
No new members will “donate” unless they expect bigger payback. That makes it an investment, and financial investments are regulated.
Your willingness to repeat this excuse means you’re nothing but a parrot mouthpiece, probably because you already have money in it. Look up “sunk cost fallacy” and “IKEA effect” if you wish to learn about your current afflictions.
if they need money, why are they giving it to anyone?
Whip: to make money, you need to spend money. Exactly like business or an investment. You dont go empty handed to an investment institution saying you want to make money. They will ask you how much you are willing to invest. Same here.
K Chang: Myself, I do have money in MMM, but I am aware it might collapse sometime, however it is a risk I’m willing to take.
As we speak, I am paying off my bond in 4 months. So it works for me. If it gets closed by the government, there’s not much we can do, but hopefully after we have paid off our debts.
As for CAPITEC: Eish, sorry for them, they were too forward and didnt discuss this with other banks. Now they are paying the price by losing clients that are moving their accounts to other banks.
They were supposed to lobby other banks so they peak in one voice. Now the same banks that are in the same industry as Capitec are taking their clients. This is business.
So you are counting on the authorities not coming after you for money realized in this scheme. Is that correct?
Hopefully the money you received didn’t come from people near you. Else they may come after you personally.
Stockvels have been around in South africa for a longtime. There is nothing wrong with MMM.
It’s hightime people got free from the shackles of the white monopoly and the corrupt goverment.You cannot claim to be free if youre not financially free.
Why don’t you investigate (Ozedit: If you want to discuss the government and lotteries, do it elsewhere)
Hands off Mmm and Sergey Mavrodi. He is the hero of the world.
please hands off MMM, Its pays , we are happy, and we donate the money we earned very hard, for you capitec you can freeze acounts at your own peril, we will contineu parcitipate capitec or not.
myb it a low percentage of loans applications we dnt know, TOGETHER WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD.
Wow, sounds like there’s a special breed of Ponzi stupid in South Africa.
Hook, line and sinker.
Funny, that’s what TVI Express followers said even after your Hawks police units arrested the local “owners”. A year or two later, the head perp was arrested in India.
Maybe you should ask what happened to those people, or is that too much negativity for you?
@ Oz You havent got a clue of the financial situation in South africa.
kchang You cant compare Tvi and Mmm.These are completeley different things.
You can’t compare stokvels and ponzi schemes either.
They are completely different things.
But, you knew that already, didn’t you ???
Don’t see what that has to do with Ponzi nutters there.
I am comparing the exact same ATTITUDE the participants have… Both were touted by participants as “ways for the little people to get ahead in life” (not exact quote) via things they don’t understand.
They see money going in, they see more money coming out. They don’t ask where are the extra money coming from.
And it seems you are quite familiar with TVI Express. Are you *sure* MMM is not a scam? Or did you convince yourself that this MMM **must** be completely different?
Are the same people promoting it? Perhaps… even you? Did they use the same selling points? Did they appeal to the same kind of people / victims? Is it, as the joke goes, “deja vu all over again”?
Or perhaps, is your brain now screaming at you, stop reading, stop questioning, must not question MMM, MMM is the greatest?
Are you brainwashed without you even realizing it?
That may explain the psychological state of the VICTIMS… they are especially vulnerable to scams who promises the sun and the moon, with stars thrown in for free… If they pay up.
But that makes the crime that much more despicable. It’s nothing to cheat a couple thousand out of a millionaire. It’s devastating to cheat a couple thousand out of someone who makes 15 thousand a year.
So I offer you this thought… If this is such a good way to make people, why didn’t the rich oligarchs in Russia like get behind it so they can make more money? Where they make in a day more than you make in a lifetime?
Why does MMM need YOUR money? In countries with some of the poorest populations?
What is MMM not telling you?
Oops, that should have read “if this is such a good way to make money”, not make people. 😛
My question is….Who need a license to donate money to other people he/she wants to give? And do I need any license to receive donation from other people?
Why don’t we look at the positive side of MMM rather than negative only? If I have money to give to other people as to help that person, then where is the issue here?..
MMM is just like other website that connects people, just like facebook and other social networks, but the best part of MMM is that it connects people who wants to provide help to the ones who needs help, and expect to get help when they need help….
So in other words MMM has revealed to us that It Is Possible To Get 30% interest if the banks were fair to us…..a Bank (Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed)
its only a fool who have a problem with MMM because a fool does not understand the basics of successes….UNIT is what we need in order to move forward in country of South Africa…Media is bias, why are they not reporting the positive sides of MMM? Its always the negative side….
Mavrodi is called a fraudster,who was jail and this and that……we have leaders who were jailed for more than many years, does that mean they were jailed because they manipulating people or they jailed because of their honesty truth?
How many people who owe banks today? How many people who are in serious debt and others even their houses and cars have been repossessed by banks?…..
You’re not “giving” money to anybody. You’re investing in Mavro points on the expectation of a ROI paid out of subsequently invested funds.
That’s a Ponzi scheme.
False. I can’t invest in Mavro points through “Facebook and other social networks”.
You’re not getting “30% interest”, you’re stealing funds from new investors, who hope to steal funds from investors who come after them.
Greater the fool who invests in a Ponzi scheme. And greater still those who try to justify fraud.
MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme, if you wish to rage against the finance industry do it elsewhere.
Donation is giving money or good or value with NO expectation of getting ANYTHING back EVER.
You are NOT donating to MMM or any participants. You are merely playing word games. Stop lying to yourself would be a good start, as a liar never prosper.
I donated R50k and received R18k in after 4 days. Wow! What a foolish investment by me… account hate it.
They have been brainwashed by their high standard of education. Banks are scared and this reminds me of the stupid 4 bitcoin I bought few years back.
I took the risk n got paid over $600 for each just after 2years. Power To The Poeple!
I only learned about this scheme last week when a colleague enticed me to join it. It sounded ‘too good to be true’ from the onset.
I told her I need to do a background check first on the scheme. I approached her with all that I had found on MMM (pending investigations).
Still, after all that revelation, she went to a bank to take out a loan and took it to invest in MMM.
In another branch of the company I work for, more than half the staff have invested in MMM after one colleague confessed to the ‘miracle’ workings of the scheme.
For me though, I refuse to be part of such. I would feel awful knowing the money I’ve just received comes from a hopeful ‘investor’ who, in case the scheme collapses, might lose all their hard-earned money.
So you’re still 32K negative?
Reminds me of Robin Hoodwink. Steals from the masses and gives to the gullible.
The bank accounts mentioned were those of MMM members who had bitcoin funds sent there, not MMM who have no such central accounts or any at all.
As far as I know bitcoin is sent between members only and bypasses the banking system. No money is sent to MMM. Id welcome any correction or any other information about this if there is any.
So Mavrodi is doing it out of the goodness of his heart, is he ????
Littleroundman, you make a valid point. No one can argue with that. Either he is doing it for that reason OR he is getting paid from somewhere else.
I do know there is no central MMM fund which is paid directly. Members are only paying other members. So maybe he is just a member like everyone else making his 100% a month till the tipping point. I really don’t know.
If there are any more comments this is the place to make them. There are some good brains here. I’m merely commenting on the mechanics.
…through MMM Global.
MMM Global affiliates don’t just magically know who to send money to, it’s all coordinated by Mavrodi.
I’d be willing to bet Mavrodi has multiple accounts attached to the scheme.
It’s just cash-gifting “mesh” (not even a circle). I’d imagine there’s some sort of backend and MMM is getting some sort of a cut (either through membership fees or some other mechanism). It’s still a Ponzi scheme though, merely decentralized.
It’s actually a combined pyramid / ponzi scheme.
The cash gifting and endless chain recruitment components make it a pyramid scheme and the paying of “old” members from new member signups a ponzi scheme, with the “giving” and “stockvel” labels providing cover for the obvious illegality.
There are no membership fees, and since there is no central MMM account – as in a program, then if Mavrodi is making money himself it can only be as another member.
Although there are also referral bonuses too. Yes, ‘decentralized’ is the word, although it is regulated from various members from within. That is the purpose of the website.
It seems to have taken on a life of its own with Mavrodi just making a few nominal comments each week.
Oz mentioned…’MMM Global affiliates don’t just magically know who to send money to, it’s all coordinated by Mavrodi’.
That’s about as near as I can get to figuring this out, assuming he is directly involved and cashing in himself. You might call it ‘the bleedin’ obvious’.
Or maybe he IS doing it all out of the goodness of his heart. He is a mathematical genius after all. :-} Ok guys thanks for the comments.
Arrest those running the website (Mavrodi and friends) = RIP MMM Global.
Decentralized my ass.
people are fighting here LOL…. my comment is: I like the fact that people are aware that they are donating and (Ozedit: Nobody donates in a Ponzi scheme, it’s a fraudulent investment model. Offtopic derail attempts about “the banks” and “insurance” removed.)
And since he controls the whole thing, he could be as many members as he wanted.
Same as any HYIPs out there with purported “payouts”… Who knows how many positions are real and how many payouts are real?
HaHa , heard all of it in Russia, during MMM-2011.
Not a single bank there even noticed clients dissapearing , in fact they even were thankfull to get rid of all “mavrodi’s witnesses” cult members so not loose their license due to money laundering and assistance in financial fraud.
I am getting paid so what!, if it collapses its ok as all businesses do, The fact is that I have achieved a lot of things since I joined it that I could not do with my salary, mind the unprofessionalism on its wap site and that doesn’t matter anyhow. I am getting paid directly on my account.
before you can say anything- complain about (Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed)
Yeah, fuck the victims you steal from!
You are a terrible person.
Oz, shut the hell up! You need some education if you want to know what stealing means.
Stealing means you took something frome someone! Thats not the case with MMM. in MMM you pay x amount to someone and someone else will pay y back with that interest. That is not stealing!
So what if that extra interest come from someone else. as long as new AND existing members give money MMM can last as long. If it colapase the blame os the greedy goverment.
If you really want to know who is stealing. Just (Ozedit: If you wish to discuss the government do it elsewhere.)
…because “extra interest come from someone else” = stealing from new investors.
Geez there’s some dumb fucks in Ponzi land.
Mathematics dictates that you cannot continue to pay out more than has been invested, which is essentially MMM Global’s business model.
MMM Global collapsing has nothing to do with the government. Victims will blame scammers such as yourself, who shamelessly recruited them into the scam with false promises of wealth.
Who paid “interest”? Does that mean everybody joining later pay more than you did? Does your explanation even make sense to yourself?
NO! You are wrong! Stealing means money taken away from you!
I never heard MMM member claimed MMM ROBBED my money or whatsoever! So shut up! People in MMM knows these money come from other people just like stokveld.
So how do people make money from stokveld. Very simple from other people. Does that apply the same to you? I guess not. Shut up if y dont know what y talking about!
(Ozedit: Offtopic waffle about the government, casinos stock market and who knows what else removed)
You’re pretty new to this Ponzi stuff hey.
You invest, those funds are used to pay off earlier investors. You then hope new suckers invest after you, from whom you steal from.
Nevermind the fact that every Ponzi scheme ever has left a trail of victims, that not enough for you?
The scheme hasn’t collapsed yet dumbass. Only when all of the newly invested funds have been stolen will you lot complain.
Dunno, don’t care. MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme and you are a scammer.
Well, if national MMM’s and MMMGlobal weren’t enough, I see that lucky investors can now make 100% a month with MMMUNIVERSE!
I’d think that the profitability for the admin comes from the conversion into Mavros, which only have a value while the ball keeps rolling.
Their magic appreciation in ‘value’ only makes the final mandatory “Provide Help” amount bigger and then the screen goes dark.
When that happens is anyone’s guess however, everyone and their uncle seems to be pumping it at the mo.
Eightlaps, we know YOU don’t…so take your own advise.
So you “gave” away the money, nobody have to ever pay you back, right? So it’s not “stolen” from you, correct?
I know Ponzi schemes but this MMM ia not the way you describe. Yes you invest and pay of the earlier investors but what y are forgotinf that the old and EXISTING Members are also investing.
Its a freaking repeat of bussiness just like when you need to buy a soap when the existing soap is finished. Its keep on repeating repeating and never ends! Plus both parties made a AGREEMENT to exchange money with MMM.
Thats NOT stealing plus you are acting as if MMM existing or new member think they wont lose they money! Ofcourse they are aware of that! Its called a fucking risk for fucking sake shut up!
Wow im so suprised you are fucking dumb. Like i said MMM Members and NEW members are aware they can lose money. It state on they website!
Again and i repeat again if you are so clueless what im saying Its called a RISK willing to take!
Nothing much to add here. It shows you have zero clue what even MMM is. I suggest (Ozedit: Offtopic waffle that has nothing to do with MMM Global being a Ponzi scheme removed)
ksp7653, Who cares what y think. I talking from knowledge and expierece that oz doesnt know jackass what he is talking about.
Always thinking negatieve side of MMM and so do y too. Keep on bitching while MMM Members are getting paid.
Y can google yourself hence even visiting MMM members that ppl are getting paid every day. MMM is only 4 years old. More to come!
…which makes it a Ponzi scheme, exactly as I described.
Yeah, this has been going on in Ponzi schemes for a while chief. Existing affiliates re-invest, those funds pay off existing investors and they get paid with either re-invested or newly invested funds.
What makes a Ponzi scheme such is the recyling of newly invested funds to pay off investors. Newly invested funds can be sourced from new and existing investors.
Existing investors re-investing only prolongs the inevitable collapse. It has no bearing on determining Ponzi scheme status.
Reinvesting into a Ponzi scheme != repeat of business (for obvious reasons).
Whether victims of Ponzi schemes agree to have their funds stolen, is immaterial to the fact that existing investors are stealing newly invested funds. Such is the nature of Ponzi schemes.
Risk or no risk, MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme – which is all that’s relevant here.
That should be enough for most people to stay well away. The only people making excuses for the fraud are those who’ve already invested.
It’s a Ponzi scheme, you admitted as much in your opening sentence. Glad we’ve cleared that up.
All that makes you is a criminally-minded scammer, who’s fully aware they’re stealing newly invested funds from victims.
Mathematics is all you need to understand the mechanics of a Ponzi scheme. Over time the number of net-loser victims increases exponentially, until inevitably the scheme collapses.
But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
K Chang, Why do i have to explain to y too? I suggest do some research on MMM and how exactly it works. Like i said to the annoying guy of oz its a risk you are taking.
I got paid last month which proves mmm is not a scam people like oz make out to be. Test it t self. Put R100 and see it for y self!
There is a support in MMM who take away dishonest people. If someone doesnt pay y back t report them and MMM will block these fraud scammer dishonest people! Simple as that!
Al t have do is think think and think like a pro and how to overcome when such situation happens. I would never comment here had i not got money from MMM.
Whether you successfully stole funds from new investors is immaterial to the fact MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme.
The recycling of newly invested funds to pay off existing investors makes MMM Global a Ponzi scheme. Not your success as a scammer.
I know exactly how it works. It’s you who choose to talk in Ponzispeak that pretends to not know by misrepresenting points, such as:
“it’s not stealing” because every participant “agreed” that they can lose money… What utter bollocks. It’s fraud to misrepresent a scheme’s risks to the participants. Merely knowing “you can lose” is not good enough. Not to mention the scheme is illegal pyramid scheme in virtually every jurisdiction in the world.
“I got paid last month which proves mmm is not a scam” that only proves that it’s not a scam to you… yet. You’ll be screaming just as hard when your check stop coming, and you never know when it will stop. If you feel like playing chances like that you may as well go to a casino. At least casinos are regulated and the games have mathematically calculated odds (unless you went to a place that cheats). With an scheme that’s illegal you will NEVER know if you will get another check…ever.
Maybe that’s why you’re so happy… and you have to be so other people join… so you can keep getting that check.
Who give a shit if its a Ponzi scheme or not. (Ozedit: Aaand we’re done. MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme, making excuses for it being so is irrelevant.)
Like i said we will talk again if the scheme does colapase and its not a criminal when both party made a agreement and is fully away they can lose money anytime.
I am very thankfull that bad luck hasnt happen yet but bless to the MMM that it hopefully continue forever. MMM changed ppl lives and y like to say bad things about it.
Also ever hears of multiple pasive income streams? There are people who teach and train ppl to do multiple project so for example mmm is a starter you make money and you transfer that money to other project.
So if mmm collapase you still have money growing in other projects. This is the future. Sleep well moaner.
Ponzi schemes are illegal the world over. Whether you signed some pseudo-compliance agreement acknowledging your role as a scammer is neither here nor there.
Offtopic comments about casinos, the banks, multiple income streams and other irrelevant nonsense removed. MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme and by participating, you are a scammer.
There is no justification for financial fraud, red herrings, strawman arguments or otherwise.
You want to educate yourself? Go read up on Mavrodi’s failed Ponzi scheme history.
You don’t need to wait and see if MMM Global will collapse, it’s already happened.
Well fellas, whether MMM is a fake, a Ponzi or a what have you, name it whatever. If it basically works for the involved participants and they are all satis then why stress yourselves educating them (us) because I’m a participant as well.
And when I was introduced into it I basically ticked that I understood all the risks involved. I joined witk a 10 000 rands and its still growing there despite the risks mentioned earlier on.
Faith and goals one wants archive in future are solely the reasons we are doing this MMM.
Even well established businesses do crumble, what befalls shareholders if say the company is liquidated or is insolvent? So the same goes for MMM. It’s gambling but full of faith. Adios Amigos
That’s a big assumption. And when it comes to Ponzi schemes, a big part of the fraud is lying to new investors.
Your personal experience cannot be assumed to be the experience of everyone. And even then it seems you were mislead.
Ponzi schemes are nothing like gambling or holding shares, it’s financial fraud and mathematically guaranteed to collapse.
First… MMM is very clear about the fact that it is a ponzi. It states right on the website that you could lose your money at any time. In fact, it warns you quite a few times.
In my mind… a scam is something that deceives people. It is something that tricks people into believing something that is not true.
When people are fully informed about the risks and how things work… they should be able to do anything they want with their money.
It is a risk… If people want to risk money and put it into something like this, they should have that right. As long as they were not deceived into making this decision.
If nothing else, I see MMM as something positive as people take a stand for freedom. This includes being able to put their money into something like MMM if they want.
No government should be able to make laws around what people can and can not do with their money. The government fears anything they are unable to control.
Whether it’s clear or not about being a Ponzi is entirely irrelevant.
Can you imagine a murderer in court getting off because they acknowledge they committed murder?
Like MMM Global telling affiliates bullshit waffle about “helping people”, when all they’re doing is using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors in an unsustainable Ponzi scheme?
Whether investment in Ponzi schemes is risky or not is neither here nor there.
There’s nothing positive about ripping off new investors just so you can take a paycheck home.
Spoken like a true Ponzi scammer. “Waaah, the government won’t let me scam people waaah.”
Here’s a tissue…
If people are fully aware of how it works and they have been told that they could lose the money they put in… Maybe you can explain how this is a scam?
In addition, the money is not just coming from new people coming in. It is from existing participants putting money back into the network as well.
A scam is when people are being deceived. I think MMM is very clear about the risks involved.
1. using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors is a Ponzi scheme == a scam and
2. You cannot represent that each and every MMM Global member is aware they are being scammed before investing. Not withstanding that whether they know or not is irrelevant to MMM Global being a Ponzi scam.
Either way, you’re still using newly invested funds (new investment or reinvested is still new funds entering the scheme), to pay off existing investors == Ponzi fraud.
Irrelevant to the fact that MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme == scam.
The definition of a “scam” is something that is dishonest and deceiving people. From what I see on the website, it seems completely honest to me.
It says a number of times that you may lose your money. It is also clear about where the money is coming from.
So… it is ponzi. That said, there is no deception whatsoever from what I can tell. So how are people being scammed exactly?
If they were lying to people about where the money was coming from, I would agree on the “scam” part. I just don’t see it.
Yup, and nothing justifies Ponzi schemes.
You might consider a trip to optometrist if you don’t see the inherent scam.
And you’re really going to insist that you personally know the pretext each and every MMM Global investor was pitched on?
You are right… Most ponzi schemes are deceptive and would be considered scams.
But no. I am not seeing where MMM is using deception. From what I see, they are being completely honest.
If you can explain how MMM is a scam, please enlighten me.
No I don’t know how people were pitched. By that logic, I guess most companies (Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempt removed)
And can we be honest about what an accurate disclaimer for a Ponzi scheme like MMM Global would look like?
I’m not talking about the “everybody helps everybody now lets hold hands” kumbaya bullshit either.
An accurate MMM Global disclaimer, acknowledged and read by every single MMM Global investor in their native language, would read something like this:
I can’t see anything like that on the MMM Global website, can you?
Representing MMM Global, a Ponzi scheme, via some horseshit about a community that helps eachother? Therein lies that elusive scam you won’t recognise.
Strawman argument. MMM Global being a Ponzi scheme is already relevant here.
Somebody acknowledging they are about to be murdered doesn’t justify a murder. The same is true of getting scammed in Ponzi fraud.
So quit representing you do. You have no idea how MMM Global is pitched to victims.
By using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors, making it a Ponzi scheme.
this statement in itself is deceptive as you need new marks to get your money back.
Since you can’t identify with being a scammer, how about ‘criminal’?
You say it’s a Ponzi. Ponzis are illegal – making you a criminal by participating in a crime.
Can we agree on that?
Wrong… A great deal of money is coming in from existing members putting more in. Also, most members are the bulk of the money in.
Ponzi schemes were made illegal because they were deceiving and scamming people. Where is the crime in being honest and transparent?
Sure… a ponzi scheme that is scamming people should be illegal. But if people are not being deceived… It really isn’t a scam.
There are plenty of examples of “ponzi schemes” that are considered legal. Of course, they are legal because the government gets a cut.
Which is exactly what MMM Global does.
See disclaimer above. MMM Global markets itself on “everybody helping everybody” bullshit. They are not transparent about being a Ponzi scheme and ripping the majority of investors off (mathematically guaranteed in a Ponzi scheme).
Well Oz, you can say all you want. But unfortunately you cant control human choice. This is a ponzi scheme, you are right, down the line someone will lose the money, yes, yes. People will smoke even if they know it will kill them. But you cant bar them from making those mistakes.
Its called free will, and it has consequences. But free will is free, whether we like it it or not. Fighting free will in a futile exercise.
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed)
Its just that you are highly charged against ponzis to exclusion of everything else. Ever asked yourself why?
I’m not trying to. The world is full of idiots and I readily accept that.
Ponzi schemes are financial fraud that are designed to steal funds from a large number of victims, on the false premise of legitimate investment. That’s why I have a problem with them.
Perhaps the more pertinent question is why you don’t.
That is of course a rhetorical question; we both know it’s because you’re a scammer.
Nope, the entire point of intellect and morals and civilization is to fight and control the base instincts rather than power to the strong. Free will is always limited by something, be it law or religion or morals or social conventions. Your logic is bogus.
You say free will is limited, its funny (Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts that have nothing to do with MMM Global being a Ponzi scheme removed)
You say my logic is bogus, but watch what will unfold and play out in reality. People will deposit fund into MMM inspite of all your wise words and genius.
The more you criticise it, the more the energy is directed in it, and where attention goes energy flow.
This is very esoteric and try to think about what I am telling you. But you also have an option to be offensive to me, use vulgar to hide your refusal to think through this. Either way I am not affected in any way!
MMM Global is a Ponzi scheme because it uses newly invested funds to pay off existing investors.
It is by definition a scam and by participating, those who make money are scammers.
If you wish to discuss free will or any other nonsense justifications for Ponzi schemes in general, do it elsewhere.
The sooner you realize BehindMLM is an informational site, the easier this becomes.
People are free to invest in scams and deal with the consequences, we’re just here to provide them with information.
Nowhere on the MMM Global website do they disclose that mathematically the majority of investors are guaranteed to lose money. Nor do they categorically state they cannot pay out more than is invested, despite that premise used to lure in new investors.
What will happen in reality, is the scheme will either be shut down by authorities (again), or it will collapse once withdrawn funds exceeds invested funds. These are not unique outcomes to MMM Global, they are shared inevitable outcomes of every Ponzi scheme out there.
Best of luck with the scamming.
May I ask why you feel so strong about MMM? Ever wonder? Let me think, you are a public protector? I feel deep inside of you there is something intrinsically good, and you dont want exploitation of your fellow brothers. Is that it?
But your approach to understanding the problem of Ponzy scheme is limited, until you understand and think hard on why people do what they do, you will remain on emotional level and never scratch the surface.
The people in MMM dont care about morals and impact on their fellow human family.
Something fuels this feeling, so long as this source is being criticised without being understood Ponzy schemes will exist, and the type of energy you bring to it only fuel it further. Use your head OZ.
I don’t. It’s a Ponzi scheme, I review hundreds of them every year. Welcome to BehindMLM.
The problem is simple. Ponzi schemes engage in financial fraud by using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors.
I couldn’t care less about the excuses investors come up with to justify their participation.
And can we cut the reverse-psychology bullshit?
“Oh don’t report on Ponzi schemes, you’ll only encourage them…”
You’re about as transparent as a brick wall.
Oz, dont give up so easy. Let us think together. Did you notice that nowhere in my comments did I ever denied that this is a ponzy scheme.
If I have not articulated that very well let me try, if you take 30% (worse 100%) as a rate of return for 24months for 10 million people, and compound that, the future value results are astronomical, mathematics proves that MMM can not and will not deliver those result.
Especially given the fact that MMM does not create value, it simply re-allocates cash to certain individuals from other individuals.
As it grows toward my hypothetical 10 million people, the probability of it crashing is nearing 1, or it is becoming certainty. So MMM will self destruct, thats easy maths and probability.
My issue on the discussion, is not proving the easy part which is the Maths, but psychology. (Ozedit: Then seek out a psychology related platform to discuss this further)
To all MMM members reading this, MMM is a ponzy scheme, but it challenges your core morality.
You dig your head in the sand and pretend you dont know you are taking from other members, they in turn take from others, your insurance is that you will leave the system just in time before it self destructs.
Mavro knows this, and somehow you know it too. Thats is why you dont care who he is, or where he is. Its all about what is deposited to your bank account.
What is it that has made us so uncaring and opportunistic? Has the money system being unfair, or is it all the unfairness of our financial systems?
You try to justify something you know its not justifiable. Do you do that to clean your conscience?
I have seen human free will at play when money is its centre. What have we become?
Its all about money, and screw it we dont care where it comes from, who is impoverished by us. Are we that angry? that mad? Just asking?
So will fraud / murder / drink driving / slavery / whatever the h*** you want to nominate.
Not “talking about it” is pop psychology B/S at its’ worst.
Everything we do as humans is psychological, because we use the brain. This is a psychological platform, you just dont see it.
Obviously psychology comes into play if you want to examine why people invest in Ponzi schemes.
Within the context of BehindMLM and analysis of a Ponzi scheme’s business model however, such examination is irrelevant.
Through review I only seek to identify Ponzi schemes. Acknowledging greed and money as universal motivators, I otherwise couldn’t care less why people are investing in them on an individual level.
Everyone has a sob story…
Oh, I “see” it alright.
What I also “see” very clearly is someone attempting to justify and rationalize the existence of, and participation in, an illegal ponzi scheme in which he fully intends to profit at the expense of others.
I came across this article after reading about the MMM Global collapse in the South African media and am left shaking my head at these comments (I promise, Oz, not all of us South Africans are as foolish as these sad ponzi nutjobs).
The crazy justifications people come up with for this scam leave me cringing. There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance afoot when individual scammers point to corruption as a counterpoint to their actions.
Perhaps because SA has a history of regulated stokvels (these are more akin to communal saving than investment in my understanding), the investors are just not seeing that they are in fact stealing from new members.
Also, I’m not sure where the line between victim and co-conspirator lies with these type of pyramid/ponzi schemes – perhaps at the same point where the scheme reaches its tipping point?
Either way, I’m interested to watch how the collapse plays out; I have a feeling that the people defending it so proudly will also be among the most vocal when their investments disappear.
Glad to hear not everyone in Africa is pro-Ponzi Mona_K, it certainly feels that way sometimes given the nutjobs we get on here.
From a regulatory standpoint it’s typically top investors who stole substantial amounts of money and/or insiders of the scheme (those who helped run it).
From a claim standpoint anyone who stole more than they invested is a net-winner, everyone else is a victim.
Sadly that’s usually the case, although you won’t hear from them here. Typically the pro-scam crowd disappear when they finally realize they’ve been scammed.
Seems like sustainability is a huge concern for mmm. Many people didnt join coz in the back of their minds they feel that mmm will eventually fall.
This does have a level of truth in it but i cant see whether that is definately so coz lots of the people that joined mmm r from the working class and are always able to add funds into the system provided they remain employed.
As well, how does life insurance work coz u pay maybe R500 per month and when you die, get terminally ill etc somebody will get a large amount of cash. looks quite similar to mmm. Crowd funding is key in this place. However u dont have to be sick to get the mmm cash.
was thinking about joining mmm but am a bit sceptic now with all this bad publicity. And truth be told, banks (Ozedit: have nothing to do with MMM Global being a Ponzi scheme. Offtopic derail attempt removed.)
SA has lots of poverty and thats y people will do the mmm thing coz it provides quick cash
Right, cuz people are complete dumbasses and will continue to plough money into a scheme they are sustaining heavy losses in.
Right, cuz insurance is totally like a Ponzi scheme. Invest in it, sit back and collect a 30% ROI a month.
So long as you’ve got no qualms about stealing from people who join after you. Have at it.
Realistically though at this late-end stage you’re probably going to be the one losing money.
I haven’t joined but I see people around me are making a leaving from MMM so I will take it as Lotto its either you Win or Loose.
Is MMM going to be in busines again in SA?
For a while. Once they run out of new suckers to recruit, kaboom.
Yellow peeps. I am one of the people who joined MMM and had that notion that what i want here is to benefit, whoever was, is going to loose out…
I ddnt want to think of it. Some two-three weeks ago MMM Global crumbled… tht also came to affect the local MMM in that those M.M Global participants were thrown to join RSA members for a 30% interest per month from the then 100% Global interest pr month.
Now my issue here is where is the money to pay all these united MMM members… Where is the money that previous members contributed into tjis community?
I assure you that something is cooking… this MMMis sooner or later going to the Doldrums. To be cont…..
Guys what’s going on with our mavŕos…. I’m scared.
You should have been scared long ago knowing who is running this side show should scare anyone!
So of us we can not live without MMM so lo Capitec ngathi basizela ngobuso so MMM must come back.
Life is about taking risk so we are willing to take risk. we dont care whether MMM is scheme but what we know thin we are rich now because of MMM VIVA MMM VIVA.
@sifiso Didn’t you get the memo? MMM Global collapsed, Mavrodi did a runner with your money.
But uh yeah, keep telling yourself you’re rich.
for how long does Capitec bank freeze peoples Account coz some of us are not in this MMM thing but my bank is been frozen.
As I understand it there’s a SA regulatory investigation going on. The freeze is likely connected to that, with the outcome of the funds tied to the outcome of that investigation.
Don’t bank on getting your Ponzi funds back (no pun intended).
Six month is not over yet I think we must be patient. Mavro he is still a hero so we must be strong I thing to look forward that thing we ll help us.
It is not easy to cliam the mountain.
Bit sad to see the penny hasn’t dropped in some quarters yet.
This MMM is growing rapidly in Nigeria now. I want to if the same fate of south Africans is what awaits my fellow Nigerians.
Also who has control over the website should incasenit gets shut down. Are we sitting on the keg of gun powder?
What’s the situation like in south Africa concerning MMM?
Of course it does. You can’t go on paying existing investors with newly invested funds forever.
If it existed before MMM Global collapsed, probably someone in Russia.
If it was created after MMM Global collapsed, probably top Nigerian MMM Global investors who created their own clone site.
How long can it be sustained and what can precipitate it collapse?
For as long as new victims join the scheme and invest funds into it.
Oz,whats is the situation like in south Africa as regards MMM now. Will it be wise if I try to notify EFCC ,a govt agencies that run after financial crimes?
What tips can u assist me so I can help millions of innocent Nigerians so as not to fall prey to this scheme. Its spreading like wildfire. We have over 300k participants now
Beyond alerting the local authorities there’s not much you can do.
From the comments we get on here there’s far too many people in Africa, Nigeria in particular who have yet to learn about the perils of investing in scams.
thami how long did thy tek to unblock your account?im in the same promblem.