CopyProTraders Review: Crypto trading securities fraud
CopyProTraders provides no information on its website about who owns or runs the company.
CopyProTraders’ website domain (“copyprotraders.com”) was privately registered on October 17th, 2020.
Further research reveals CopyProTraders affiliates citing Antione McBay as founder of the company:
Rather than just be upfront about company ownership, on LinkedIn McBay refers to himself as CopyProTraders’ “servant” (cringe) and Chairman.
Antione McBay seems to have made a name for himself in the early 2000s and 2010s promoting Max International and Momentis.
McBay’s Facebook page has him “from Dallas, Texas”. His LinkedIn profile cites him in Vietnam.
It appears that although McBay is a US citizen from Texas, approximately three years ago he relocated to Vietnam.
McBay’s move to Vietnam saw him get into cryptocurrency fraud, via promotion of BitAnex and E-Platform 365.
BitAnex is some ERC-20 shit token. I wasn’t able to ascertain if there was a separate income opportunity attached to it. I did note it was promoted alongside E-Platform 365.
E-Platform 365 was a daily returns Ponzi scheme operating under the guise of cashback.
After E-Platform 365 collapsed I wasn’t able to ascertain whether McBay continued to promote crypto scams.
At some point he joined QuiAri and was part of “Quiari Team Vietnam”.
McBay was still promoting QuiAri into mid 2020, which leads us to CopyProTraders’ end of year launch.
Read on for a full review of CopyProTraders’ MLM opportunity.
CopyProTraders’ Products
CopyProTraders has no retailable products or services, with affiliates only able to market CopyProTraders affiliate membership itself.
CopyProTraders’ Compensation Plan
CopyProTraders affiliates sign up and place cryptocurrency under the control of CopyProTraders. CopyProTraders executes trades on the affiliate’s behalf, on the expectation of passive returns.
Each CopyProTraders affiliate is charged $99 a month for access to passive returns.
CopyProTraders takes this fee and uses it to pay recruitment commissions.
Note that CopyProTraders withholds commissions until an affiliate has “earned at least $600”.
Recruitment Commissions
CopyProTraders pays recruitment commissions via a unilevel compensation structure.
A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of a unilevel team, with every personally recruited affiliate placed directly under them (level 1):
If any level 1 affiliates recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 2 of the original affiliate’s unilevel team.
If any level 2 affiliates recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 3 and so on and so forth down a theoretical infinite number of levels.
CopyProTraders caps payable unilevel team levels at seven.
Recruitment commissions are paid on every $99 affiliate fee paid across these seven levels as follows:
- level 1 (personally recruited affiliates) – $21
- levels 2 to 7 – $7
Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus
CopyProTraders takes $10 of every $99 affiliate membership fee and uses it to pay a Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus.
To qualify for the Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus, a CopyProTraders affiliate must recruit and maintain 15 personally recruited affiliates. Each of these fifteen recruited affiliates must have recruited five affiliates themselves.
The Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus is $10 paid to the first qualified upline affiliate.
I.e. if the recruiting affiliate isn’t Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus qualified, the system will search further upline until it finds a qualified affiliate.
That affiliate will receive the $10 Top Affiliate Infinity Bonus, monthly recurring as long as membership fees are paid.
Joining CopyProTraders
CopyProTraders affiliate membership is $99 a month.
Note that while they are calculated in USD, all CopyProTrader membership fee payments and commissions are paid in bitcoin.
Conclusion
After relocating to Vietnam and getting his scam on promoting E-Platform 365, Antione McBay tried to go legitimate with Quiari.
That didn’t work out so here we are with another MLM crypto scam – except this time McBay is running the show.
CopyProTraders combines securities fraud with pyramid scheme recruitment.
Everyone signs up as an affiliate and pays a $99 a month fee… in bitcoin of course because good luck getting your money back.
Anyone who hasn’t earned $600 is locked out of commissions. Seeing as you can’t earn commissions until you’ve “earned $600”, presumably this is $600 in passive returns.
Just so there’s no confusion, here’s the exact copy from CopyProTrading’s marketing material:
AFFILIATE: Any person that chooses to participate in the Copy Pro Traders Compensation Plan and has earned at least $600.
CopyProTraders’ securities fraud takes place by way of automated trading.
The Copy Pro Traders service may result in trades in on your behalf.
You should understand that is highly speculative and that you could sustain significant losses exceeding the amount used to copy a trader or traders as a result of the following:
It will involve automated trading execution whereby trades are opened and closed in your account without your manual intervention.
For the “bUt ThE cRyPtO iS iN mY eXcHaNgE aCcOuNt!” crowd, here’s the Howey Test definition of an investment contract:
The U.S. Supreme Court’s Howey case and subsequent case law have found that an “investment contract” exists when there is the investment of money in a common enterprise with a reasonable expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others.
Whether your invested crypto is stored on an exchange or not is irrelevant, it’s pooled under a common enterprise (CryptoProTraders).
And this is done solely on the ‘expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others’ (trading activity).
Antione McBay’s game-plan seems to be hide out in Vietnam whilst committing securities fraud, namely in the US.
As I write this, Alexa estimates 80% of traffic to CopyProTraders’ website originates from the US.
For CryptoProTraders affiliates in the US, know that promotion of securities fraud is also illegal.
Failing the SEC or regulators in Vietnam taking action, the other outcome of the “cRyPtO iS iN mY eXcHaNgE aCcOuNt” model is rigged trades.
The most recent example of this playing out was iQuandex’s exit-scam.
In addition to securities and pyramid fraud, CryptoProTraders is also violating the FTC Act.
The “our traders” section of CryptoProTraders website provides grainy photos of individuals and fluffy bios.
No verifiable evidence or trading data, with respect to alleged trading for CopyProTraders is provided.
Nor does CryptoProTraders provide consumers any historical trading results, or information about who exactly is behind their automated trading software.
These are all potential violations of the FTC Act with respect to marketing disclosures.
In addition to losing cryptocurrency through rigged trades, the majority of participants in MLM pyramid schemes are guaranteed to lose money.
Be it trading or pyramid recruitment, only a select few are making money in CopyProTraders.
Be wary of CopyProTraders promoters dismissing/ignoring securities fraud, and representing they are in profit over the short-term.
Update 13th September 2022 – CopyProTraders has collapsed. Antione McBay has rebooted the scam as Liberium Crypto.
Great, been waiting for this one.
These guys popped up and became the De-facto for many MTI shills after that little exit.
This is the latest “tHiS iS tHe ReAl DeAl GuYs, HoNeSt” scheme promoted by serial scammers Wes Garner and Lisa Marie Holt.
Don’t go anywhere near.
My rule of thumb with these schemes is waiting to see if they’re still around a year or more later.
Usually with six months, they start exit scamming to avoid the authorities and run off with everyone’s money.
Spotted a ~12year old gifting circle scam, never underestimate the level of stupid in the world.
Glad to see this, I’m a Wes Garner and Lisa Marie Holt ‘fan’ and have been following their scamming for quite a few years.
Struggled to work out the scam with this one, I’m not an expert though knew it must be a scam.
I did find their current top trader on Facebook though. Had rather a few companies he’s with listed on his profile, gave me MLM vibes though I didn’t check them out. None were crypto.
A handful of very recent posts about his crypto trading, he smokes a lot of pot and him being a top crypto trader appears to be a VERY recent thing, past month or so.
I still cannot understand why people are following Wes Garner and Lisa Marie Holt from scam to scam while losing money every single time.
Copy Pro Traders is being touted as a way to recoup the recent losses their followers suffered from Wiseling.
I tend to view that gifting scheme as the exception rather than the rule.
Apparently, no one or very few have filed complaints claiming they were scammed out of money by the gifting outfit.
Else, the authorities would’ve stepped in long ago to shut them down.
I am aware of one gifting scheme which has been around for several years named Ecosov.
There are so many inaccuracies in this review it is absurd.
No commissions are paid on trades.
Company never ever can touch my wallet to withdraw my crypto.
There is no gifting.
Even if the company goes belly up, closes doors or gets shut down it would only affect affiliate commission, not an individual’s wallet.
Recruiting is not required.
Product? The product is my membership subscription for professional trades made automatically into my private crypto wallet. Back office and reporting software…..access to the affiliate program is optional..
to date my crypto balance has skyrocketed due to this platform…..
There is so much strawman in your comment it is absurd.
The review doesn’t state there are.
They can if you’re using the automated trading. See linked iQuandex exit-scam.
The review doesn’t mention anything about gifting.
Required or not, 100% of MLM commissions are tied to recruitment. Everyone is an affiliate.
Affiliate membership is not a product.
Is there risk? Sure, as there is with a lot of opportunities…. (Herbalife, Advocare, ETCETC……..
YOUR INCORRECT ABOUT THEM ABLE TO TOUCH YOUR WALLET. all they are provided is an api code to make trades………not going to debate this…….
I brought up the zero commissions on trades to substantiate my point that 100% of profits and losses are all that is taken out and that amount is not controlled by copy pro but by the market.
I brought up gifting because other reviews have stated that…..(noted).
Your correct AFFILIATE COMMISSIONS are tied to referring others into the platform and affiliate opportunity.
Strawman.
Sounds like you don’t know the company you’re in.
as a strawman.
as a strawman.
Thank you for acknowledging CopyProTraders is operating as a pyramid scheme.
Did you even bother to click the link to the iQuandex endgame report Oz did? It’s right there in the article you’re commenting on: the future foretold.
Do you not realize you’re just the lastest in a very long string of idiots (or scammers) who rocked up with the “ThEy CaN’t ToUcH mY wAlLeT!” claim? It’s really simple: direct access is unnecessary when the scammers can execute rigged trades where they are on the winning side and the affiliates are the losers.
Then they’ll blame it all on: a) an anonymous over-eager insider who violated company guidelines and has now been fired, b) an unexpected market move/volatility, or c) “HaCkErZ!!!”
Of course, all trading will be suspended while they redress the issue. At least, that will be their cover story while they do a runner.
Lmao,,,,,,,,,, cya bashers……..waste of my time.
No wonder you’re a low-level Ponzi victim, terrible wordsman, and worse salesman.
Rather than actually selling us on the best opportunity since the last scam 20 minutes ago, you spew flaccid insults.
Amos_N_Andy, now you have done it. You have been called the dastardly “basher” word by that brilliant wordsmith, command of the English language, and critical thinker Greg s.
I am just overwhelmed with his in-depth knowledge and grasp of facts that he posted in rebuttal to your comments. Still trying to wade through them all there were so many.
I’m sure Greg s thinks his blistering chastisement he gave you that you are sulking in a corner sucking your thumb holding your blankie for comfort.
Don’t you just love Ponzi’s pimps like Greg s that cut and run when they can’t dispute facts
Will no one come and comfort me in my time of sorrow and pain? I have been cut to the quick by Greg s’s rapier-like wit!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe!
It should now be clear to all that “Greg s(hit-for-brains)” is a perpetrator; not a victim.
This is what a scammer backed into a corner looks like. Reader beware.
Add Frank Calabro Jr. to the list of those pimping Copy Pro Traders.
Hi Guys, whilst I understand your desire to protect the community online from scams – this time I think you’ve maybe missed the mark. In fact, many not all of your points in the article are incorrect.
Before I start I want people to know that I am not or have I ever been employed by CPT & these are only my opinions based on what I’ve read above… next I will say that I have been around this industry for decades & seen many very bad companies come & go in the crypto space – therefore I totally understand peoples desire to be 100% informed & do their own due diligence when looking at companies in the space.
I chose to work with CPT after that same due diligence & joined them based on that information including many of the points raised in this very article…
After my research I found answers to many of these questions & my opinions are being used below not the companies.
Let me address each piece of information (or potential misinformation) individually:
1.
– So this statement needs clarification & is 100% incorrect – affiliates do not market an affiliate membership – they market subscriptions at $99/mth to access technology that links traders to a copier (the subscriber) – they market a “social trading technology platform” – therefore customers are paying for a software subscription…
these customers DO NOT have to be an affiliate to use the software but can choose to promote optionally to create a secondary income alongside their trading income (which is real).
2.
– This is not entirely accurate & needs clarity – A CPT customer signs up & places their cryptocurrency in their own exchange —>> links to the social trading platform via API – with no withdrawal access & yes (then & only then – of their own volition) their chosen trader trades his or her own account & the copiers account executes those trades through that API taking the same trades – which by the way is the whole point of the program… & 100% a customer choice to do so.
In fact there are other platforms that do exactly that – they aren’t the only one.
3.
– Again, only part of the picture & the language is incorrect (very important – CPT’s (chosen trader) executes trades for the “customer’s” (who DOES NOT have to be an affiliate to participate) behalf, on the expectation of “trading returns – not passive returns” based on the chosen traders results…
(None stated as passive – this is clear in all company presentations that there is a risk in trading & participants should never trade funds they cannot afford to risk – like any other trading) – also there are never claims around passive – just handsfree via copy trading.
Unlike the HYIP exit scams out there – CPT never claims a daily passive return & are clear about the fact that not all trades will win & it’s a long term (potentially risk driven strategy) strategy.
Also, if a customer doesn’t like the trader or the traders style they can change at any time or in fact close the trades manually & delete the API.
4.1
– Firstly, CPT do not claim to pay passive returns & are not charged $99 to receive any such passive returns – they are charged for the subscription as a customer.
4.2
– They absolutely do not pay commissions for recruitment.
– For clarity CPT takes the customers – $99/mth software subscription & pays customer sales commissions to it’s optional affiliate program just like all other legitimate product based network marketing opportunities… Please try to use the right terminology.
– As stated earlier customers have the choice to promote CPT or not – until then they are customers only.
5.
– 100%, no longer true… Commissions do not need to reach $600 to withdraw & can be withdrawn immediately after they have been confirmed on the blockchain (which I have personally done – including days after I started). Please fact check before stating for public consumption.
6.
– Correction CPT customer subscription for access to software is $99 a month – affiliates pay nothing extra & commissions are paid on sales of a subscription not on an affiliate fee. Please get it right…
7.
– This is a genuine opinion from hearing him speak… Would it not stand true that if someone themselves has experienced the downside of the Crypto scam world – would it not stand to reason that they may look for or try to create a better solution & one that isn’t like all the scams you describe?
8.
– This statement is incorrect as they are not providing trading services, advise or doing the trading for you – they are just linking & facilitating via software the link – which is actually being done by other legitimate companies outside MLM with no recourse.
9.1
– No they don’t as stated above you are not signing up as an affiliate – you are signing up as a customer with the option to be an affiliate for FREE. Again please get your facts straight.
9.2
– There is no reason why you would want to get your bitcoin back that you are paying for a product/service.
That’s like asking for your money back after drinking your Isagenix shake – really?!?
10. “Anyone who hasn’t earned $600 is locked out of commissions. Seeing as you can’t earn commissions until you’ve “earned $600”, presumably this is $600 in passive returns.
Just so there’s no confusion, here’s the exact copy from CopyProTrading’s marketing material:
AFFILIATE: Any person that chooses to participate in the Copy Pro Traders Compensation Plan and has earned at least $600.”
– As previously stated this is in fact no longer true. Commissions for sales referrals are paid instantly.
11.1
– The funds are not invested in a common enterprise & ARE IN FACT in your own exchange… I’ve looked over the Howey case & it doesn’t actually seem to apply here (not a lawyer of course).
11.2
– actually it is not pooled under a common enterprise. The traders are not employees of CPT & there is not only one trader trading.
In fact nowhere in the Howey test does it state this “Whether your invested crypto is stored on an exchange or not is irrelevant, it’s pooled under a common enterprise (CryptoProTraders).”
you’ve made it seem like an extract from the case which isn’t fact. It would only hold true if the funds were in fact pooled under a common enterprise which they are not.
11.3 “And this is done solely on the ‘expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others’ (trading activity).”
This is only relevant if it’s done with a common enterprise…
12. CPT’s securities fraud takes place by way of automated trading.
– Where on the SEC website does it actually state this – the only reference I can find relates to bots which CPT do not use…
13.
– This would only be true if there was no product or service on sale here & as mentioned above there is in fact a product & service…
14.1
– In fact there is verifiable evidence & trading data in your exchange & is available in your back office… I have plenty in my account – so I’m afraid you are mistaken.
14.2
– Yes they do as per 14.1 & on company webinars frequently updated. You can jump on one as my guest sometime 😉
15.
– interestingly enough there is more evidence of people making exceptional returns on the trading that’s actually being done than you say – including myself plus for those wanting to promote a real product that actually delivers on what is stated on the box – this is the one place I would actually say people are making very good money from both trading results & promoting the product/service – see income disclaimer below…
(Ozedit: derails and mareketing spam removed)
(income disclaimer: none of my statements are not meant to represent how well you will do, or guarantee, expressly or implicitly, your success as individual results will vary.
No income claims are guaranteed or implied. Independent distributors, reps and or affiliates work on commission, therefore your success is based on a number of factors, many of which are within your control, such as work ethic, persistence and dedication, while other factors may be outside of your control.)
Calling affiliate membership a subscription doesn’t make it not an affiliate membership.
Access to MLM income opportunity = you are an affiliate. Bundling a product/service with MLM affiliate membership doesn’t not make it affiliate membership.
Which is just another way of saying “CPT affiliates sign up and place cryptocurrency under the control of CPT.” So the statement is in fact correct.
Which is just another way of saying “CPT executes trades on the affiliate’s behalf, on the expectation of passive returns.” The statement is entirely accurate and doesn’t need clarity.
They don’t need to. The only reason anyone is participating in CPT’s passive returns opportunity is because they expect daily passive returns.
Those expectations stem from CPT’s marketing. Whether they explicitly state “daily passive returns” is neither here nor there.
Can I get access to CPT’s passive returns without paying $99 a month?
No? Then CPT affiliates are being charged $99 a month for access to CPT’s passive returns.
Getting paid to recruit affiliates = getting paid commissions for recruitment.
Not interested in meaningless pseudo-compliance. I’m only interested in facts.
The FTC and SEC aren’t interested in pseudo-compliance either.
If you sign up as an affiliate you are an affiliate irrespective of whether you recruit or not. For clarification of this refer to FTC v. Vemma and FTC v. Herbalife.
Glad to see someone at CPT read this review and made that change.
That said, it’s still present in CopyProTraders’ official “Affiliate Plan”: copyprotraders.com/pdf/CopyProTraders-Affiliate-Plan.pdf
Sorry what facts? This was quoted literally from CPT’s own marketing material (live at the time of review publication).
Whether it does or doesn’t is irrelevant to the fact McBay is committing securities fraud through CPT.
I sign up as a CPT affiliate. I hand them control of my money (the investment) and CPT generates a passive return for me.
CPT “doing the trading” for their affiliates is literally what happens.
What kind of dumbass statement is this?
If I want a refund I want a refund. Whether I paid in bitcoin or some other currency is irrelevant.
Yes, really.
Source: isagenix.com/en-us/isagenix-compliance/return-and-refund-policy
No legitimate MLM company denies consumer refunds. In fact the FTC has gone after MLM companies for this very reason.
The Howey Test doesn’t make any exceptions as to how the funds are stored. CPT is the common enterprise funds are put under control (on the expectation of a passive return).
See above.
If you want to make claims about CPT’s traders provide legally required audited financial reports. This is an SEC requirement.
This is from CopyProTraders website:
Anything automatic with respect to trading = bots.
With respect to MLM, any passive return = securities offering (investment contract).
False. It is entirely possible for an MLM company to violate the FTC Act if they have products and services.
See practically every legal complaint filed against an MLM company by the FTC ever.
This is not verifiable evidence. What’s in your backoffice is marketing spam.
Verifiable evidence, as required by the Securities and Exchange Act is periodically filed audited financial reports.
Backoffice content is not a substitute for legally required audited financial reports.
Even Madoff’s Ponzi scheme could be made to look profitable if you were selective about what data you cherry picked.
The fact remains the majority of participants in pyramid schemes lose money.
If CPT are delivering what’s “stated on the box” and can do so indefinitely via legitimate means, perhaps the biggest due-diligence question of all is why then is the company committing securities fraud.
The second biggest question is why, instead of demanding CPT register with the SEC, provide all legally required disclosures and financial reports and operate legally, affiliates such as yourself are here making excuses for securities fraud.
As a final note normally I let readers leave whatever URL in the comment field. You attempted to sneak in a recruitment pitch in your comment body itself and so I’ve removed it entirely.
I really don’t like the idea of affiliation, because it does lead to a pyramid scheme. H
owever, I have a friend, a real one, who have signed CPT and is really getting good earnings.
I’m only concerned whether if this api link CPT would be able to, somehow, withdraw his money.
what an absolute weapon ALICE is for one, ive been watching wez and Lisa, but cant put my hands on this one, well name the rest. (Ozedit: derails removed)
Not directly but it can through rigged trades. This is the “but they can’t touch our money!” trading bot exit-scam model.
If you want to prove Alice is a “weapon”, provide legally required audited financial reports.
No reports? CopyProTraders is just another exit-scam waiting to happen.
Cedrick Harris says Trust me …. Trust me …… That is ALL i need to hear to figure this out …..
Cedrick Harris. What an ego. Self-proclaimed “expert” who lives off his “fame” from MLSP so he gets all of those followers to follow him into a “deal” for 90 days.
He gets paid. They lose money. He does it again in 6 months.
Living his lifestyle off the backs of those who don’t know any better until it’s too late. Great guy!
**NON AFFILIATE REAL EXPERIENCE HERE**
Quit a few non truths in this article, which I don’t think are deliberate, but have come from a biased perspective. For Antione Mcbays unfortunate dealings, he’s also been involved in very successful projects. Unfortunately, maybe due to his own lack of due diligence, he’s paid the price of some poor decisions.
That said, here’s my experience with Copy Pro Traders.
I’m not an affiliate. I’m just an every day guy, who lives in Perth Western Australia. I lost my job due with British Petroleum due to the Covid impact, so decided to look around to see what I could do with my redundancy.
I was referred to CPT by a family member and decided to look into it. Eventually I joined, just to tentatively feel it out.
I’ve now had several months. And while it still has it teething issues, it’s been nothing but positive.
There are no lock in contacts. If it’s not for you, just don’t pay the next month. Simple.
Do they have access to your funds? No. The program only has the ability to view the available balance of USDT and determine if there’s enough for the trade. They cannot withdraw or alter the account on the exchange linked to their program.
I myself have two accounts on Kraken. Both accounts are linked to CPT and follow a different trader.
Both traders I have been able to meet via Zoom and Facebook, talk to and watch on YouTube. They are real people, who often demonstrate to their followers how they use their own strategies.
My monthly returns have been close to 10 percent. That’s profits, in my exchange, that I can withdraw. And have done so.
10 percent is great. Past success doesn’t guarantee future success, but it’s an indication.
The affiliate program is not a pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme funnels money upwards through the levels.
THIS. DOES. NOT.
It is, as actually stated in this article, a uni-level compensation plan. That is VERY different. It is not required to be able to participate. It is an option if desired. End of story. Full stop.
People can simply recieve a portion of a persons subscription if they have signed them up. It’s a reward for bringing a new customer.
THE $600 dollar eligiblty mentioned. Perhaps it was an early stipulation. It is not anymore. As someone who was referred by a family member and the only person they ‘recruited’, they were immediately credited with the $21 reward, despite only being with the site less than a month and only having earned 5 percent return on a $1000 dollar portfolio. In other words, while 5 percent is healthy enough, they’d barely cracked $50 in earnings.
And let’s not be naive. Almost all exchanges implement similar reward programs and reward existing customers if they bring new people on board.
If done correctly, as this is, it’s an exceptional marketing tool as people will happily refer family or friends IF IT WORKS FOR THEM.
And ongoing rewards can only continue if the people ‘recruited’ are satisfied with the program and wish to continue. Which means results have to seen.
And while CPT is a pathway that mirrors a traders moves to your own account, you still have full control of your exchange. As I said, mine are with Kraken. I can buy, sell, withdraw and do whatever I wish.
If a trader buys, I can chose to sell it myself if I wish to.
If I chose to not renew my subscription with CPT, my account with Kraken is still my account. My funds, coins, eveything is still mine to do with as I please.
As I said, they cannot touch your funds or alter the account in any way.
The API link used is created within Kraken. Not CPT. This means it is managed by Kraken.
Which includes its settings. As a result, you manage the settings yourself, removing any risk of funds or assets being adversely impacted or dissapearing.
As for bitcoin being the only payment option for subscription. Atm yes. But LTC is coming within the next few weeks, with other coins to follow.
The article says ‘good luck getting your money back’.
What money? The 99 dollars worth of bitcoin? If you’ve paid a subscription, you’ve paid.
You don’t get that back.
And as for over payments, I’ve been through that. The options provided when I contacted them? I could put the excess towards the following months subscription, or provide a wallet address of my liking for the refund.
I chose the following months subscription and it was done.
It’s also mentioned that only a select few make money. Wrong. Incredibly so. Literally thousands of members have joined forums and social media pages to discuss CPT and share experiences. You cannot hide issues such as that amongst a community of users from all corners of this globe.
Instead of writing articles about a product you’ve never used and clearly never tried, why don’t you actually trial something out.
And give people what they actually deserve.
A proper insight as opposed to what amounts to nothing more than a skewed view based on a negatively biased opinion.
CopyProTraders has no retailable products or services. You’re an affiliate.
And? McBays is still a serial Ponzi scammer. It doesn’t matter what else he’s done in his life.
Here we go, someone who lost their job and is desperate. Now, after “several months” they’re here to school us on MLM compliance.
If a third-party can trade on your behalf they have access to your funds.
Social media is not a substitute for regulatory disclosures.
A pyramid scheme pays on recruitment. An MLM pyramid scheme pays on recruitment “upwards through the levels”.
As far as commissions go, this is exactly what CopyTradersPro does.
Not by merit of it being a unilevel alone. Using a unilevel comp plan doesn’t exempt you from running a pyramid scheme.
I’m not aware of a single exchange running as an MLM opportunity, so this is a false statement.
See here – https://behindmlm.com/companies/iquandex-collapses-pulls-technical-error-exit-scam/
Can’t withdraw or do whatever you want if CopyProTraders pull the ol’ rigged trades exit-scam.
API = a vehicle that gives third-parties access to your account.
Your twisted logic is asserting a Ponzi scheme isn’t a Ponzi scheme because they use PHP to code their backoffice.
The money you’ll inevitably lose when CopyProTraders goes tits up, same as every other “lol can’t touch our money” trading scam before it.
You don’t need to participate in securities fraud to identify it.
Instead of coming on here and making excuses for scammers, how about you learn those who’ve seen this business model collapse over and over again.
Lol Non-affiliate.
You’re paying a subscription to an MLM,you’re an affiliate,whether you recruit or not.
Daft turd.
Interesting, might be an idea to actualy get the owners right ….
Also whilst I understand different views on mlm type businesses Do you not think it unprofessional to be so uncouth such as ‘ Daft turd.’ & ‘ “Greg s(hit-for-brains)” etc…
I fuly understand wha you will think of my post, hoerver I joined this company, I have a small investment in my own private exchange, I have several winning tradrs, my monthly $99 service fee is nearly covered, 4 friends have joined with me, they have also earned money fron the trading.
not a penny is taken fron our trading profits, …. As you know the 99 is commisionable, which helps to cover the cost, so I’m trading free.
the company dont have my money…like others do, nothing taken out and no CPT withdrawel fees , it all seems rather good to me…………………
regarding all the people mentioned above who are ‘promoting’ it …………te still only get 21$, so they are not encoureged to make people invest higher amount for higher commisions ……….. its only ever 21 ………………
I read your posts on here and very much agree on many companies…………. but , guys , they are not all bad, ………….I just dont understsnd your persistant brow beating.
such a shame
Sorry about my speling pooreyes
Whether you understand securities fraud and pyramid schemes is neither here nor there. It is what it is.
Everybody loves BehindMLM… until we review your opportunity.
Thing is, the methodology doesn’t change.
Tell you what, Nick, point out one MLM Oz has called out as a Ponzi that didn’t turn out to be one. Then get back to us. In the meantime, we’re taking Oz’s word over yours, mmkay?
Amos. Dear Amos….
Over ten years agk I (Ozedit: derails removed)
With copyprotraders… I’ve yet to find a single person unhappy with it….. Apart from non members on here….
I hand 47 closed profitable trades. Plus. About 14 open at present…. Not a single person has lost a penny in any…….
Securities fraud is illegal. Whether you’re personally OK with fraud is neither here nor there.
Says anyone before the “bad trades” exit-scam.
If CopyProTraders was above board there’d be no reason to commit securities fraud.
Look over at the fields of adoring fans and see how many fucks are given at you and your friends happiness.
None.
It’s illegal and theft, just because you are in early enough to profit doesn’t change that. Just makes you a dirtbag.
Go play in the street you common thief.
What a pleasent way you have with words about you AntiMLM.
exactly what am I stealing and where is the theft taking place ?
what has being in eaarly got to do with earning a & from trading with my own money.
I am opren to you explaining to all the readers how I am a DIRTBAG, AND COMMON Thief.
This doesnt show you in a very pleasent light does it.
CPT seems very similar to the forex copy trading services. Pay a monthly subscription, link your forex account to the trader, and your account mimics their master account.
Yes, there is a risk of blowing the account because of bad trades and high leverage.
You seem to miss the whole point. It’s an illegal programme, it isn’t registered with any authorities.
So you can reply as much as you like how happy people are with it, it still doesn’t make it legal!
When you sign up to a Ponzi scheme the people who joined before you steal your money.
You then steal money from those who came in after you. When the scheme runs out of new suckers, it collapses and those who came in last lose their money.
“Your own money” is irrelevant. It’s long gone. Any money you withdraw is stolen from those who came after you.
People only sign up to schemes which openly break the law (by offering securities without the legally required licence) because they want the chance to steal money from those who came out of them.
None of them care about “tRaDiNg”. If they did they’d just sign up with a legitimate stockbroker and trade securities legally by themselves. (They’d probably lose money, but at least it would be their own money.)
Brent. We do not do forex therfore we don’t have forex accounts to link to anything.
Jonathan… Seems your answering a different question…. I asked. What has being in early to do with anything?
Malthusian… I find your answer even more bizarre… Nobody stole my money…. And I haven’t stolen anyones money…..
I personally have bought trading signals… About 60+ so far.. All giving me great returns…. As it has for others….
My income is from my own money in my own exchange which is sent trading signals which then trades for me….
I keep 100% of my capital…. There are no deductions so I keep 100% of my trading profit…..
Nobody above me receives anything from my trading and I receive nothing for anyone under me…..
You while post regarding steeling is just silly.
I must say. Whilst you are all entitled to your opinions… The way you speak to people is very disrespectful…… Absolutely no need to be so unpleasant….(Ozedit: derail waffle removed)
** Another Non Affiliate Member Experience Here **
I can say 100% that CPT is not a “scam” as such, and the way the API is set up, there is no permission to withdraw or touch the funds, just to execute trades. So, have a cookie for not being a ponzi.
However….
MANY people (in fact, nearly everyone in the program) have experienced SIGNIFICANT LOSSES to date.
The “Pro Traders” were not able to protect the membership from the May 2021 Bitcoin plunge, and indeed were caught with their pants down.
Most are now stuck in losing trades bought at the peak, hoping that Bitcoin will go up to 60k again.
In the meantime, we are still expected to pay the $99/month fee with no USDT available to take any trades until the losing ones can be closed.
The censorship in the official Facebook group is BRUTAL – it’s happy clappy all the way or you’re banned.
And you are not allowed to complain you are “losing”, you have to say that “the market is currently down”. Any posts about losing are now being deleted.
CPT is a poorly conceived (and executed) idea. It’s a stone cold loser in a bear market, it doesn’t seem to work at all well in a rangy one – the ONLY time it shows results is in a bull market.
But wait, I can buy a basket of major cryptos and ride a bull myself – without paying $1200 a year extra for the privilege. That money could be better spent stacking crypto, if that’s your thing.
The only people that keep talking this program up are the affiliates, especially the two mentioned earlier, who want those commissions to keep rolling in and are in damage control mode, urging people not to cancel.
Sorry but CPT SUCKS. 10k account down to 6k in 6 weeks – thanks a lot.
Sorry Nick,till you can provide proof actual verifiable financials for the company to confirm the trading profitability and their financial services registration you are shamelessly promoting an illegal company with no legal backing and certainly less than 0 recourse.
And if they do make an ACCIDENTAL or ON PURPOSE fuckup ANY money you “earned”, and any money “earned” and “lost” by the people you referred, as well as “losses” by people reading your obviously biased opinion will be on your shoulders – but you’ve made it clear you don’t care about any of that as long as you made money.
That makes you a pretty scummy individual
And no you can talk about me or call me what you like,my conscience is clean, I don’t knowingly support illegal activities for personal profit. You on the other hand?
If y’all left bagholding at ~$60K then you definitely got scammed.
As per CopyProTraders’ website:
Any moron can “trade” when tether pumps the number up. If volatility left you bagholding then you got scammed with false advertising.
Traditional obvious ponzi perhaps not,but we’ve had fake Copytrading used to wipe people’s accounts, so this is not immune to tomfoolery.
Rigged trades + bitcoin going down to ~35k = bigly profit for scammers.
Hey Oz I’m on your side, CPT should be avoided like the plague but no-one is rigging trades here. Why would they do that as it would spoil the MLM side when people leave.
The whales (Elon Musk in particular) crashed Bitcoin for their own purposes and the “Pro Traders” were left scratching their heads and locked in multiple positions at 60k.
Unless you’re executing trades yourself, you can’t prove that. No audited financial reports because securities fraud.
Because money. You’re all bagholding their $60K bags and the MLM side isn’t spoiled. Or is it?
I’m not taking any sides. Any side can criticize on semantics. Like I posted before, CPT appears to take on the characteristics of a forex copy trade service. Pay a monthly fee and get signals (copy trades). I’ve seen it all.
Most forex brokers are not registered with the SEC, however they are accessible to US clients. I’ve gotten major payouts from those brokers.
Forex.com is registered and their leverage is 50:1. Most oversees unregistered brokers have a leverage of 1000:1. With forex you can blow an account with one trade. CPT you can’t. There is no leverage.
There’s no exit scam blowing the account like forex. I’ve seen people who have had forex account managers with 100k then down to $0 the next day. They used high leverage and the account managers broker.
They were scammers. They only used their specific broker. Once they had enough clients, they purposely traded in losing trades to make that broker money. Then they closed shop.
Don’t trust any trader that uses their own broker that hasn’t been established! Nor use a trader that asks for your money to trade in their own account.
Yes, the affiliate fees are constructed like a pyramid scheme in the traditional fashion. As long as they keep performing percentage wise for their clients then I don’t see a problem with their structure.
$99 is not a lot in comparison to the big scheme of things. Withdraw profits every month if it’s a concern.
People who can’t afford to pay 99 a month and have 1-2k in their crypto account should not be taking the risk anyways. Just hold, pick a coin and hold.
Securities law isn’t “semantics”.
If there’s autotrading it’s a passive investment opportunity (you pool funds under CPT’s trading). That’s a securities offering.
MLM + passive forex ROI = securities offering. “Everyone else is doing it!” isn’t a justification for fraud.
Sure there is. Not you manually trading? CPT can do whatever it wants on the backend.
Whether you’re fine with fraud is neither here nor there.
Like I said, I’m not on anyone’s side. Just seem angry and/or argumentative.
I’m comparing forex brokers which I use that are unregulated with high leverage. Also crypto is not under the SEC regulations.
I still get payouts with that company even though I use a forex copy service to trade for me. I pay a monthly fee. I’m taking a huge risk because one trade can blow my account with leverage. With crypto it is almost impossible unless it goes to zero.
There is no leverage in your account with CPT. I’m no member of CPT.
People can be high and mighty on what they pick and choose to obey the law. If people can’t take the risk of trading with their service then don’t do it.
How would they blow their account without leverage? Please explain? Unless they have their own fraud broker that they control you aren’t blowing account.
If kraken (which CPT uses) is in their pocket then we should be reporting them for fraud. Let’s go after them.
I look at it this way, I’m paying 99 for a service. They trade for me with no leverage and no control of withdrawing money or coins.
I put in here what I can afford to lose. Not a big deal if I’m down 99 in a month. That’s where I’m at.
People are in different places in life. Take a risk. Could pay off or get recked. Thank you for the conversation and points of view.
There are no sides when it comes to securities fraud.
Nobody said it was. MLM + passive ROI = securities offering.
The vehicle used to generate the ROI doesn’t matter.
Every trade has someone else on the other end. When the time comes to exit-scam (“blow an account”), that someone else in MLM trading schemes is the MLM company.
This is why every MLM crypto trading scheme doesn’t register with financial regulators and provide legally required audited financial reports.
You have no problem with financial fraud. Got it.
Trader strikes deal with shitcoin x,dumps all your holdings for shitcoin x. Welcome to bagholding. All automagically because obtuse idiots don’t understand basics
Could you show the Audited financials confirming this? Or is it “magic dashboard numbers” #trust wheeeeeeeeee.
Uh, you are a member, you’re paying them,whether you recruit or not isn’t relevant to membership.
Yeah you clearly prove that you cherrypick legalities to suit you.
You’re promoting it, take some responsibility like a man for your actions.
Damn you are new.
I’m bored now. (Ozedit: Cool, bye. Dummy-spit removed)
That CopyProTraders affiliates find securities fraud acceptable and “boring” should be of concern to potential affiliates.
Nownow Nick,you can definitely not try to pull any kind of legitimacy claims with the amount of Snake-oil and horsecrap you’ve peddled through the years.
Affiliate Marketer lol.
https://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/f2s-fund-review-150-in-55680-out-btc-ponzi-scheme/#comment-438995
I agree with you that nobody is forcing anyone to join CPT. The whole point is that what CPT is offering isn’t legal if they don’t have a securities licence.
If you choose chips or rice, you are doing so in a shop or restaurant which is licensed to sell them to you.
You also have a choice to purchase prescription medication or diesel fuel. If whoever’s selling them to you doesn’t have a licence, they are breaking the law.
Offering asset management in se isn’t illegal. Doing so without a licence is.
Aww, Nick, you never got a chance to answer my question:
You dodged it pretty well, but never responded. Good-bye, and please do let the door hit you on the way out.
Lmao!! I have not joined. I’m giving a different perspective of what I’ve been through and experienced.
AntiMLM is making aggressive intimidating statements with no substance. You seem angry to anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Is kraken (Ozedit: derails removed)
I’m not new at all to any of this. I use overseas forex brokers (Ozedit: derails removed)
I can bag hold all day and never lose my whole account in crypto. Different story with forex. If this were forex we were talking then I would know the risk and assume it.
Leverage will kill your account especially with high lot sizes. (Ozedit: derails removed)
If you wish to discuss non-MLM topics (crypto exchanges, forex brokers etc.), do it somewhere else.
There is only one perspective when it comes to securities fraud: it is illegal.
Whether you’re fine being left holding the bag or not is neither here nor there.
Rigged trades are a thing with these “bUt ThEy CaN’t ToUcH mY mOnEy!” opportunities:
iQuandex collapses, pulls “technical error” exit-scam
omg
WRONG NICK WOOD …………thats NOT me lol.
Rightio, the Nick Wood show has run its course. Anything further is offtopic.
The churn rate must be horrendous on this. The trading results are getting worse as Bitcoin continues to slide.
So I actually put some money in kraken account to try it out. Paid my $99 in bitcoin. I want to see if it will work or be a good investment or scam.
So far I’m down 250 in my kraken account. I will keep updating if you guys want.
Don’t start attacking me because that’s what this whole blog is about.
I’m trying to see from both sides. Not going to give my affiliate link or advertise. Just educational.
Make it clear. I still have coins. So no trades have closed in the negative.
Sorry for your loss.
When you inevitably decide to acknowledge you’ve been scammed, perhaps you’ll also accept there isn’t two sides to securities fraud.
Credit for being honest but this was always going to happen.
Let’s just be optimist because it’s my spare money, lol. I don’t want to argue. I’m doing it for my own education also to keep others from loses.
I’ve taken many loses with scams. Not so much MLM scams. Trust me, if I can save people’s money and educate then that will be a win for me.
I invested, listed and learned through the years. Lost money. It only takes that ONE time you are right to make major money. I’m a risk taker. But don’t want to see others doing the same.
Thanks for convo OZ.
Whether you’re optimistic about securities fraud is neither here nor there.
Not arguing, these are statements of fact.
Seems like you haven’t learnt much if you’re still investing in schemes openly committing securities fraud.
God!!! You are so angry and a miserable person!! A normal person will respond with, “good luck bro! I pray to god you get your money back. Let’s keep in touch to let me know how it goes”.
I clearly expressed that I have free money to invest. I want to help others to determine whether it’s a scam.
Seems like you want to argue or put down anyone that is not 100 percent what you believe. Whether they are neutral or not.
All I here is securities fraud, “here nor there” every time. “Here nor there” is not a response anyways, “it is, what it is”. Hope that makes sense. Because it doesn’t. Lol
Nah fam. I have nothing invested in CopyProTraders inevitably scamming people.
And whether it’s free money or not in your particular instance, that doesn’t take away from CopyProTraders being a scam. This isn’t a review addressed to your personal situation.
Come on here with your “tHerE’s TwO sIdEs To FrAud!” bullshit and I’m going to call you out on it.
Fuck your beliefs, fraud is fraud. I’m only interested in facts. What I gave you credit for was owning up to the fact you lost money in an obvious securities fraud scam.
If you were expecting a pat on the back for coming on here to defend scams and then promptly losing money, you’ve come to the wrong place.
There’s lessons here but you’re evidently too much of a rIsK tAkEr to waste time with that.
Best of luck with the next scam.
Lmao! You are so (Ozedit: abuse and derails removed)
I have kept it civil with respect to your views on securities fraud. And you’ve done nothing but strawman at me as a person over and over again.
This isn’t you vs. me as individuals. This is you being told CopyProTraders is a securities fraud scam. Investing anyway and losing money.
There is nothing to argue about. I think we’re done here.
What!? You told me,”to fuck my beliefs”. That’s not coming at me as a person.
No it isn’t. It’s fuck your beliefs regarding securities fraud as stated.
Beliefs have no place in a discussion about securities fraud. What you believe or don’t believe about securities fraud doesn’t matter.
It wasn’t directed at you as a person, the sentiment applies to everyone.
I am not interested in discussing your feelings any further.
They aren’t feelings. Im actually helping to prove your point but you don’t see that.
I told you I’m down money. Don’t you think that I will report what I go through? Yes, I will. Education and knowledge is power.
You just see what you want to see. You don’t want to hear anything else. Whether, it will benefit you or not. (Ozedit: derails removed)
Evidently except when it comes to securities fraud. Then it’s all about investing anyway because you’re a rIsK tAkEr.
Eh,no,you’re confused so let’s enlighten you a bit here:
Whether you get money out or not is entirely irrelevant and proves less than nothing,anecdotal proof has been used as proof by scam proliferators as long as scams exist. If they didn’t these scams would collapse within days.
So,you adding money to it does not confirm anything except that you don’t care about the legality thereof. So cool thanks for confirming that.
Will be waiting for those audited financials and proof of registration to provide financial services,and securities registration worldwide now if you’re actually interested in proving anything that matters thanks.
PS. fuck your opinion and beliefs and anybody else’s as they have no basis in provable fact. There is one fact here,CPT is illegal until proven otherwise.
PPS. bUt i GoT pAiD is not proof.
PPPS. bUt i GoT pAiD will never be proof.
PPPPS. bUt i GoT pAiD is not audited financials or securities + financial services registration.
PPPPPS. bUt i GoT pAiD is not an excuse in a court of law.
@Brent:
I’m not sure why you think you’re being helpful by doing what you’re doing. Obvious securities/pyramid fraud is obvious; no one needs you to toss your money at it and report back.
First of all, what happens to you and your money is of no value. There are two groups in these fraudulent schemes: winners and losers. One person ending up in one group or the other proves nothing.
Secondly, what you are doing is not morally neutral. Turning money over to people running a scam is supporting them in their scam. Look at one of the biggest scams in recent history: OneCoin.
People lost billions, and it happened because millions like you said, “Hey, it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll work out.”
And as more people “invested,” the criminals running OneCoin had more working capital to grow the scam. They traveled the world, rented out large venues, bought advertising in Forbes, and roped in more victims by spending money they stole from earlier victims.
People who “win” in schemes like this do so by stealing from others. Whether they do so directly by recruiting victims or passively by letting the scammers do the “work” is immaterial; theft is theft.
No one here is going to give you a verbal slap on the back and wish you well. If we did so we’d be saying, in essence: “Hey, good luck stealing money from other victims, buddy!”
So yeah, Oz opined “fuck your beliefs,” because it’s beliefs like yours that keep these scams running.
You say it’s money you can afford to lose, but so what? Whether you can afford to lose it or not, your money is supporting a scam.
Generosity. So they have given everyone a few free days added to their subscription because most are in loss still.
Value about 25 dollars. Peanuts compared to some people’s losses. I don’t know how anyone can promote this with a straight face.
Who actually cares?, its a scam, nobody gives money away for free.
Yawn moving on…
Huxley
I joined Copy Pro Trader with a $800 investment. After fees I ended up with $674 in my account.
I was receiving trade notifications and decided to document my progress over 1 month.
First when I started out I was excited, I dont need to do anything but update my progress.
However…
After watching my Kraken account I noticed something peculiar…
My account balance never goes up…
What I mean is, I got all of the trades, but my account never grew.
It only went up and down when the market fluctuated.
The only time my account ever went up was when Bitcoin went up $10,000.
And once it dropped so did my account.
It appears to me that all of the trades arent even going to my account, and my account is only moving because of the market.
I’m going to provide some numbers now below.
Something is seriously wrong.
$800 – Fees = $674
674 Invested –
Total trades for my time on Copy Pro Trader: 258
Total $: $156.39
Percent %: 23%
Now to my Kraken account.
My current balance as I write this is: 599.02
$674-599.02= 74.98 loss on original balance.
Based on my trade results my account should be at: 830.39, 103.7% Roi.
Its not…
74.8% is my Roi since being on Copy Pro Trader.
My conclusion: Get your money out of there if you dont want to lose it.
I think the trades are rigged and don’t really go to your account.
1 You can’t make money out of fresh air.
2 You still can’t make money out of fresh air.
3 it’s all a massive scam.
Mike
Any update about this crap?
Securities fraud is securities fraud. It doesn’t change over time.
Hi Oz, can you explain this concept better? if the api key have the option to deny withdrawals, even if they made rigged operations and therefore losers I lose my money on my Binance but it certainly does not end up in the hands of scammers because they cannot withdraw my money from Binance .. so how does the scam work?
I am not in this business but I am asking you out of curiosity because I do other types of business that work with api key on my Binance.
Sorry if my English is not perfect but I am Italian and I am using the translator.
They don’t withdraw directly from your account, they exhaust anything allocated to the bot through rigged trades in their favor.
You don’t own the bot. The bot can be changed to do whatever the owner(s) want at any time.
Thanks for the reply. If I understand what you mean, you are referring to the fact that when no more new customers come in, they simulate a hacker attack or something like that to burn all the accounts and make the exit scam .. is that correct?
Because otherwise I don’t understand the meaning, since as we said my funds are on Binance and if the capital is burned with false operations, however, it is not money that they can withdraw because the API key is not enabled for withdrawals, this thing it would make sense if my funds were on the scammers’ site.
You put $x worth of whatever under control of a bot you didn’t code.
Scammers can do with $x as they wish through rigged trades (trades in their favor).
They don’t need to withdraw the money if they can command your account to buy–at an inflated price–some shitcoin or NFT that they own that’s near-worthless.
Your wallet hasn’t heen emptied, it’s just filled with zero-value crap.
That’s an example of a “rigged trade.” No withdrawal necessary, but your money is gone anyway.
Thank you very much for the explanation, even though I have been working online for 7 years and a similar situation has never happened to me.
Maybe I’m wrong but I think such a scam is more likely when the funds are on the scammers’ own site or on a broker who is complicit with the scammers, more difficult if the money is on Binance because the scammers could be traced.
And when you find out they’re hiding out in Dubai with all their scammer friends, what good does that do you?
Read this review for how the exact same scam model worked out for investors:
https://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/iquandex-review-bitcoin-trading-bot-securities-fraud/
Be sure to read the follow-up, linked at the end of the article.
And then?
please pay our money back sir
*Laughs in scammer* Come at me bro
I was referring to the fact that they risk ending up in handcuffs.
Pretty low risk, especially for such small fish.
Not if they’re in Dubai. They welcome scammers with money. Dubai authorities even make excuses to not act on international arrest warrants. (“We looked into it, and these guys seem OK. No, it’s not like they greased our palms or anything…”)
There are several other countries where MLM scams are simply ignored. The most they’ll do is issue a warning. OneCoin was run out of Bulgaria. It ranks as one of the biggest Pinzi schenes ever, and they still have an office in Bulgaria, operating right out in the open.
The only thing Bulgaria did was let the German authorities come in and sniff around that office a little; they never did close it down.
Don’t think for a minute that fear of handcuffs enters into the minds of scammers. Don’t think, “Oh, they’d never run a scam that way; it’s too easy to trace.”
Bullshit. They have the mindset that they are untouchable, and they use elaborate money moves to cover their tracks.
I’m not implying those measures work, mind you, I’m just saying most scammers think they’re smarter than law enforcement.