WCM777 Ponzi scheme “closes” US operations
WCM777 first popped up on my radar back in June of this year. In formally reviewing and analysing the WCM777 business model and compensation plan, I discovered the company offered affiliates 100 day ROIs over five investment levels.
With invested affiliate funds the only source of revenue on the MLM side of the business, quite obviously WCM777 was operating as a Ponzi scheme.
Based out of Hong Kong and officially registered in the British Virgin Islands, a known tax-haven, WCM777 expanded operations into the US around the same time I initially reviewed the opportunity.
On Monday the 17th of June WCM777 held a “grand opening” at the Pacific Palms Hotel in Los Angeles, California. On their website WCM777 claim that over 500 affiliate investors attended the event, with twenty of them being given awards for their financial contribution and recruitment of new affiliate investors into the scheme.
The company also claimed to have ‘received great support from the California government‘, accepting a “Certificate of Recognition” from the City of Walnut.
Fast forward five months and WCM777’s offices have been abruptly shutdown, with rumours emerging that suggest an FBI investigation was behind the decision.
While I personally can’t confirm the existence of an FBI investigation into WCM777 at this time, what I can confirm is that last week the company did indeed decide to suddenly abandon its US operations and retreat back to Hong Kong.
In an October 4th announcement published on the WCM777 website, the company advises
The USA operation is closed. The company’s US customer service center, City of Industry office is closed.
The company’s US customer service phone number will remain the same, as will the email address.
No official reason is given for the unexpected retreat back to Hong Kong, however WCM777 do state in the announcement that their
global legitimacy strategy is to set up different system in each county to abide by local laws.
Ponzi schemes are of course illegal in the US and would explain WCM777’s sudden termination of their US operations.
Whether an investigation by the FBI (or any other US regulator) has been opened remains to be seen.
Seeking to target new affiliate investor markets, WCM777 also advise that the company will be ‘setting up foothold in Dubai to bless (the) Middle East‘, and that they’ve ‘already purchased (an) office there‘.
Meanwhile one can’t help but draw similarities between WCM777’s pulling out of the US and the now infamous Ponzi scheme GoFunRewards.
GoFunRewards operated a Ponzi points style compensation plan, combining it with a number of front businesses it hoped would mask the investment scheme nature of the business.
Just a month before WCM777 began targeting the US, GoFunRewards announced that, based on “advice from legal counsel”, they were ‘ceasing operations in the United States‘.
Like WCM777, GoFunRewards retreated back to Hong Kong where they were primarily based.
The modus operandi of these shady schemes appears to encompass a launch in the US under the guise of guaranteed legality, the taking in of as much US investor funds as possible and then, without notice, to abruptly flee the country.
As demonstrated by both GoFunRewards and WCM777, this is done within a timeframe unlikely to attract action from US regulators – but with more than enough time for the US’ top Ponzi players and those they recruit to get on board and invest large amounts of money.
As it stands now one last major Hong Kong MLM investment firm targeting the US remains standing, that being Better Living Global Marketing, who offer what are obviously unregistered securities via the Ponzi points compensation plan mode Zeek Rewards pioneered.
Will Better Living Global Marketing soon also follow suit and take their stolen spoils with them back to Hong Kong?
Stay tuned…
I want to thank all those who have posted negative things about WCM, or ghost blogs, etc … THANK YOU FOR OURSELVES ADVERTISING … (One of the biggest rules of marketing is that bad publicity, it is still publicity) Thanks to you, our check increases day by day … From heart! THANK YOU!
^^ Geez… how deluded do you have to be to go ahead and post something like that.
Welcome to the Ponzi underbelly of the MLM industry folks.
WCM777 affiliates are pissed (from the company’s Facebook page):
Good luck collecting your check from China!
Exactly which marketing rules are you talking about here?
Bad publicity CAN have some value, e.g. if you have a marketing team prepared to handle that type of publicity. But that doesn’t mean ALL bad publicity is “good”.
“One of the biggest rules of marketing” is probably from a book or something? I’m sure it made some sense in the context where it was presented initially, but out here in the real world it sounds more like a method from brain washing (“repeat it over and over again until your brain has accepted it as true”).
Bad publicity can be illustrated by the fictional story of a Scotsman, “Angus the …”:
“I have built all those 10 houses you see over there, but do people call me ‘Angus the house builder’? No, they don’t.
I have been a member of the town council for almost a decade, but do people call me ‘Angus the town council member’? No, they don’t.
But more than 20 years ago, when I walked home from a bar on a late Saturday night, took a shortcut over a field with some sheeps, and decided to …”.
I seriously believe you should adjust your ideas about how “good” negative publicity can be. Some types CAN be handled correctly, but you clearly haven’t identified how to handle it.
What’s really sad is I came across a posting in WCM dated 2012… They are telling people in China that they can help Chinese families emigrate to the US (as an investor immigrant), if they hand over $530000 USD (five hundred and thirty thousand US dollars) to them as “pre-IPO investment” into Ming Xu’s company 1and300 that will go IPO in the US in 2014.
Or to put it even more plainly: I’ll help you buy US Greencard for your entire family for 530K USD.
Devout Christian indeed.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/10/wcm777-went-for-long-swim-abandoned-us.html
“It’s in Chinese. Go find someone who can read it for you”. 🙂
Here’s the gist of it:
http://www.worldcapitalmarket.cn/wcm/?p=1115
I did manage to screw up a couple names, but the general meaning is correct.
The term 美国开泰集团, or US KaiTai Group, is a sound-alike of an investment group in Shangdong, China.
Furthermore, the term KaiTai is also used along with WanTong 万通, but 万通 is the Chinese name for MassMutual insurance. Thus, Google translate often end up rendering it to MassMutual everything. ANOTHER sound-alike shadiness!
Now we have 美国万通开泰控股集团 US WanTong KaiTai Holding Group
Which is what’s displayed on Gideon Business Society, yet another Ming Xu creation, with virtually identical language: almost guaranteed EB-5 greencard in 9-12 months.
http://www.1and300.org/index.php/immigration/eb5/189-topacific-im.html
But there’s no doubt the whole thing refers to WCM itself.
Are you kidding me? WCM777 has not closed down. It’s still in business. There is no FBI investigation. I’m in my back office now and everything is fine. I use my cloud product every day.
I spoke with the CEO yesterday and it’s business as usual. It’s amazing how people react to RUMORS. If rumors were real, I would be a millionaire from the Iraqi Dinar.
Be careful what you post. I believe the word is slander. If I was this poster, I would remove it right away.
See this warning from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services on fraudulent investment scams that exploit the Immigrant Investor Program, also known as “EB-5.”
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=73a1bf3b58471410VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=e7801c2c9be44210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
PPBlog
So WCM777 are lying about closing down in the US on their own website? Interesting.
So there’s no FBI investigation… because you can access your backoffice. How… conclusive.
Well, except for the whole shutting down in the US and running back to Hong Kong thing. Did you ask him why?
Did you fail reading class? It says WCM777 Closes US operations. Here’s their own admission:
wcm777.hk/en/news/20131004en.html
He failed reading class but got an A+ in “Selective Reading 101”
I prefer “cult-induced spot blindness”.
WHEN I FRIST WAS APPROCHED WITH THE OPPORTUNITY WCM777 I HAD A FEELING THAT ITS WASNT RIGHT. HOW DO YOU BECOME A BILLIONAIRE AND NO INFO AND WHAT THERE IS KNEW SOMONE WAS LIEING.
HOW IS IT YOUR LIC SUSPENDED IN CAILFORNIA O MAYBE NOT THIS MING OR THIS WORLD CAPTIAL MARKET IS ITS TWIN..
http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/
See what happens when you drink too much Kool-Aid ?
Eventually the tide level rises and obscures your vision.
Oh, it’s definitely him:
typed in this though and this came up wcm777 record of an entity.
@jk
Interesting. It would appear that sometime between filing that on September 25th and early October Ming Xu and WCM777 decided to flee the US.
Heat too hot?
YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CANT HIDE FROM THE INTERNET THE DAY I LEARNED GOOGLE IT MY LIFE CHANGED NO MORE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ME NOT KNOWING AND TRUSTING THERE WORD..
In my reviews, it’s more likely that many are running their own cult/ponzi schemes from the teachings of their great leader. They will push the blame off on the parent corporation and pocket lots of cash from unsuspecting folks who buy into this type of garbage.
I also enjoyed researching the wcm777.hk privacy policy, which was completely lifted from Intersections, Inc Consumer Privacy Policy.
Guys- I am sure you read what is posted here, for your next trip into scamming people, search/replace is your friend, but the wayback machine (archive.org) exposes your past frauds. Phil Rockefeller? Really??
I heard WCM set up a physical office literally on the same street as Better Living Global Marketing in HK. Apparently, the founders of WCM were Better Living affiliates who decided to branch off into their own thing. Luke Teng has disavowed them, mostly just for stealing his ideas and being worse at not getting caught.
Wouldn’t surprise me. It’s obvious the two of them came from Zeek given both WCM777 and BLGM are essentially clones.
@Stop Ponzis #24
Stop Ponzis,
Better Living Global marketing affiliates are oblivious to all these events>…. recruiting is increasing!!!!!?????
Found this photo, supposedly dated June 2013 in that SoCal hotel
http://i.imgur.com/iF6MeV7.png
Seems a lot of the pushers speaks Portuguese… Another scam aimed at Brazilians? Any familiar names there?
Ming Xu definitely has a hard on for Brazilian investor funds, this (hilarious) video was cut back in June.
It’s also interesting that they call themselves WanTong Chiji 萬通奇跡, or the WanTong Miracle. Here’s a video of that “global launch event”, courtesy of a “Johnny Robson”.
The problem is WanTong is the Chinese name of “MassMutualAsia”. So they are, essentially, misleading the public.
Compare their event name, vs. the real owner’s… Same characters, except the real one says US WanTong in Chinese.
http://corp.massmutualasia.com/tc/default.aspx
Obvious fraud?
Who’s that “That 70s Show” token white guy I see with Xu in every photo op?
Ozedit: NVM, he mentions his name in that video Stephen Huntsman, Exec VP of WCM777.
Nothing pops up for this guy within the MLM industry outside of WCM777 (nothing online pre-WCM777).
Can US affiliates still join?
I know that as of last week US residents were being recruited, so, yes, I would imagine so.
Check this out:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=525829760838103&set=a.491980727556340.1073741831.491917764229303&type=3&theater
The Chinese guy (owner) posted a picture on facebook saying he got a “certificate of recognition” by the state of California, for helping support the development of the state… But if you read what’s in the photo, it’s actually issued by a golf course…
The certificate actually says:
It’s not for developement. It’s for “nice of you to buy a golf course”.
Apparently it’s not the only one they bought, hmmm…
http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/lake-elsinore/lake-elsinore-headlines-index/20131010-lake-elsinore-summerly-golf-course-sold.ece
Wonder which corporate entity did they use to purchase, as World Capital Market Inc is suspended?
Though someone claimed it’s re-registered in Delaware. Hmmm…
Maybe that was the plan all along. Launch Ponzi in the US, buy golf courses and then flee back to Hong Kong.
Perhaps Ming Xu just really likes golf… or maybe there’s seven golf courses with seven golf courses in California with small hills on the property. Mountain-like almost.
You’re joking? Its not at all what’s printed on the certificate shown on Facebook.
It is not issued by a golf course.
It has nothing to do with buying a golf course, much less two of them.
The certificate is signed by California State Assemblyman ED CHAU (Chinese American) in whose District the Glen Ivy Golf Course sits. The golf course reopened recently, and apperntly both Ed Chau and Dr. Phil Ming Xu, along with hundreds of others attended the grand opening. This is a “thanks for attending” letter and nothing more.
It recognizes that DR. Phil came out, probably had a cocktail, some conversation and maybe played a round of golf. Doubtlessly, Assemblyman Chau mails thousands of these certificates out every year in hopes of generating support at election time.
except there’s no evidence that anyone or thing connected with Dr. Phil ever bought a golf ball much less an entire golf course.
Before it was exposed in 2009 as a massive “green” Ponzi scheme, a Mantria Corp. subsidiary known as Mantria Place announced “the recent $17.5 million acquisition of 5,500 acres in Middle Tennessee (Sequatchie County) and plans for the nation’s first carbon diversion power system. Tennessee’s largest master planned community, Mantria Place, will boast two championship golf courses, two lakes/marinas and over 2000 acres of green space.”
Ponzi schemers have been known to trawl golf courses and country clubs to line up new suckers. Ponzi schemer Allen Stanford sponsored a PGA Tour event and some pro players.
One of the interesting things about Mantria is that it had a boatload of subsidiaries or entities (at least 55) that were affiliated in some way, making it a considerable challenge to follow the money.
State and local officials and entities such as the Chamber of Commerce always are interested in economic development. From time to time, Ponzi schemers have invaded this world, much to the embarrassment of those officials and entities when a person they’ve touted as a champion of development proves to be a Ponzi schemer.
Andy Bowdoin of AdSurfDaily infamy, for example, was touted by the local Chamber as a jobs creator and economic-development leader. The good news is that the Chamber later contacted the FBI after ASD’s story didn’t ad up.
Mantria became infamous for trading on the name of former U.S. President Bill Clinton. There’s even a picture of Clinton standing alongside Mantria’s Troy Wragg at an awards ceremony.
When the SEC exposed Mantria in 2009 and reporters emailed Wayde McKelvy, the key pitchmen, they received back autoresponder messages urging them to join the Trump Network.
It is not uncommon for Ponzi schemers to seek to curry favor with development agencies and politicians. It sets the stage for a scammer to blanket himself in an aura of credibility while he picks the pockets of people who show up at the golf course or at a Chamber event or charitable function.
Perhaps the most infamous of the Ponzi schemers who functioned in this way was Fort Lauderdale’s Scott Rothstein, the now-disbarred lawyer who swindled more than $1 billion.
John A. Mattera, the recidivist Boca Raton swindler, also operated in this fashion. Like Mantria, Mattera pumped out press releases touting his civic involvement.
Recent WCM777 press releases include these titles:
* WCM777 Limited Announces Office Relocation
* WCM777USAHOLDS LAUNCH PARTY AT GLEN IVY GOLF COURSE
* Dr. Phil Ming Xu Named to Mayoral Inauguration Committee
* World Capital Market Acquires Glen Ivy Golf Course
* WCM777 CEO Mr. Tiger Liu Visits Quanzhou Chamber of Commerce
As a Comments thread at BehindMLM.com shows, at least one WCM affiliate appears to be trying desperately to pass off a press release as a story in the Wall Street Journal.
https://behindmlm.com/companies/wcm777-review-cloud-services-investment-returns/#comment-179684
With the apparent sudden closure of WCM777’s U.S. operations, well, this may be Red Flag City.
PPBlog
I don’t think he’s fleeing. He just doesn’t operate WCM777 out of US. World Capital Market, the part that sucks Chinese money (through him) to the US for EB-5 visas is apparently running fine.
Apparently they’re going to hold some sort of China-USExpo this week in LA, and they apparently invited every mayor in nearby cities, most so-cal assemblymen, and even GW. Bush
24tk.org/tlistdetail.aspx?id=316
china-usexpo.org/
But that expo’s contact address is also listed as World Capital Market
zoominfo.com/p/Angel-Wang/1911649991
Wonder who’s getting duped… the Chinese, or the Americans?
Apparently Phil also operates a 1and700, where it’s advertised as “kickstarter for Christian projects”, and takes a 10% cut. None of the projects on their homepage was funded more than $30 bucks before it “closed”. 😉
Here you have a real (clearer) one from Ed Chau:
http://www.morganstanleyfa.com/public/facilityfiles/mssb255688/a2a7ae60-6088-46c3-a6bc-5991037885db.pdf
It contains a lot more text than the Phil Ming Xu version:
Phil Ming Xu’s version is probably Photoshopped, due to the lack of text and how blurry the picture is.
Yes this one is much clearer and shows the source very well. I poked around a bit and found the certificate that Roundman referenced and also some promos by and dealings attributed to an entity called World Capital Market.
Judging from what I saw Phil Ming Xu is, or claims to be, the CEO of WMC and a company called WMC did, or claims to have purchased one or more golf courses, so my apologies to Chang and Oz. It appears possible that Xu has played a part in the purchase of the course(s) and that Ed Chau is acknowledging that.
WCM777 Ponzi scheme “closes” US operations??? Just did a search on kepler.sos.ca.gov and it is ACTIVE, so, is it closed or not???
Entity Number: C3607080
Best
@VC
According to WCM777 themselves, yes they have closed their MLM operations in the US. No idea about the business registrations…
Just as an illustration… here’s a whole list of “awards” “appreciation” “recognition”, and so on received by an apartment developer. They are from everybody… Assembly, Senate, Congress, High School, City, and more.
http://www.tsahousing.com/awards.aspx
So they don’t mean TOO much…
You’re a couple days late with that realization…
behindmlm.com/companies/wcm777-ponzi-scheme-closes-us-operations/#comment-181163
But this is their own announcement… What do you think?
wcm777.hk/en/news/20131004en.html
The certificate appears to be genuine, I just have a problem with the FONT used for Xu’s name.
In almost all the cases of the certificates viewable online, the name’s in Italics in the same font as the italic text below for the “reason” of appreciation. Somehow, Xu’s certificate uses a completely different font, NOT italicized for his name.
Not saying that would invalidate it, just that it’s a point of suspicion and question.
As long as their state licensing fees are current they will show active with the SOS.
They hand them out like after dinner mints.
And a little more for the people who like to dig around in the old stuff on the web —
domains – (still finding / checking)
topacific.com
yalecare.com
pacificclubs.org
1and400.com
1and700.com
quanfuhui.org
1and300.net
1and300.org
1and700.org
topacific.org
ceodc.org
969tech.com
mannasource.com
mannatv.net
themanna.org
wcm777.me
wikiagency.com
omtz.com
mybeijing2008.org
chinaglobalmart.com
thechinainvestor.org
mingdata.com
affluen.com
smalldistance.com
worldcapitalmarkets.com
emails used – (list still finding / building)
infostates@yahoo.com
topacific@hotmail.com
More fun stuff but I must rely on google to translate. Perhaps someone else has more skill in this area. This link appears to be complaining of fraud in China by our buddy Phil back in 2010.
http://www.nybbs.com/thread-35352-1-1.html
Interesting. If the date can be trusted, this predates WCM777.
I’ll do my best to give you a translation:
美国万通投资银行是骗子,
US WangTong Investment Bank is a scam (NOTE: 美国万通 is MassMutual’s tradename, this is fraud already)
美国万通投资银行家徐明伪造身份非法集资,
US WangTong Investment Banker Ming Xu uses fake identity to illegally gather investments.
此人貌似神通广大,伪造自己是投资银行家,在美国拥有自己的公司,
This guy claims to be well connected and powerful, claimed to be investment banker, have many companies in the US.
现在中国到处花言巧语宣扬自己可以投资赚钱稳赚不赔,
Went back to China and used flowery language to claim he can invest and return plenty of profit with zero-risk.
徐明其人给人印象出手阔绰,生活光鲜亮丽,
Ming Xu gives the impression of a high roller, and big spender
先后在哈尔滨,大连等地找公司及个人非法集资数千万元,
Had previously raised funds in harbin and Dalian and raised tens of millions from companies and individuals
很多人都抱着希望他能带领大家一起投资获利,等待其好消息,
Lots of people had hopes that he can lead everybody to profit, and wait for the good news
有些人甚至房产都赔上了,很多人血本无归,
Some even mortgaged their house and many ended up with nothing
他在美国与中国十年间流窜做案,现曝光,
He had been scamming his way across US and China for 10 years, and now he’s exposed
特提醒大家警惕投资陷阱,不要人云亦云,小心上当受骗!
Special wanring… don’t fall into the investment trap, or you’ll be taken for a real ride!
1.他在海外所有分公司都不存在.
His “overseas” companies do not exist
2.他的业务在中国基本上都是从中骗来骗去。
His mission in China is scam everybody
Phil Rockefeller Ming Xu/洛克菲勒.飞利浦/徐明先生
已经代表上帝来到中国开始挽救我们了,听说谈的都是要帮助我们造大飞机的上百亿项目!
He represents God to come to China to rescue us, and he talks about helping us to build big airplanes and some hundreds of items!
但是他还连基本的车和住房也付不起,衣服和鞋子也是我们这些需要挽救的人提供的。
But he can’t even pay for his room and car. His clothes are shoes are provided by us, the people he’s trying to save.
Thanks –
I also have this link ..
http://topacific.wordpress.com
The timeline described is interesting and there are mentions of the defunct sites I’ve listed previously and have verified using archive.org / wayback machine..
Wow, this is getting better and better. I foudn another link, this leads to Ming Xu faking the Olympic Committee, and even faked Chinese Embassy endorsement. The original Chinese is here:
http://www.sipo.gov.cn/mtjj/2007/200804/t20080401_361337.html
And this is OFFICIAL Chinese government website. I’ll translate the juicy stuff:
就在北京全民迎奥运活动组委会的书法征集活动在秦皇岛受阻、灰溜溜地撤出北戴河后不久,闹剧却仍在继续——这一次,该组委会的名字又悄然出现在了美国。
After “Beijing All people welcome Olympic Activity Organization” illegal fundraiser was stopped in ChingHuan Island, and quietly left the BeiDaiHo region, hilarity continued, as this group managed to reappear in the US.
据中国日报(Chinese Daily)发自洛杉矶的报道,5月17日,北京全民迎奥运组委会美国分会暨百万华侨迎奥运筹委会的发言人徐明表示,将开展公益活动支持北京奥运。
According to Chinese Daily out of LA, May 17th (2006? 2007?) Bejing All People Welcome Olympic Org, US branch and Million Overseas Chinese Committee spokesman Ming Xu said he will start fundraising advicity to support Beijing Olympics.
该报道称,徐明发起的中国奥运基金会中,已经接收到了最少数十万美元的捐款,其中包括一家叫康瑞的企业提供的50万美元现金或等值商品,以及一家叫国际爱福仁信用卡公司年利润的1%。
According to report, Ming Xu started this Chinese Olympic Fundraising Committee had raised at least 100000 USD donations, including one KangRei 康瑞 provided 500000 cash or equivalent merchandise, and 1% annual profit pledge from International AiFuRen Credit Card company 国际爱福仁.
据记者调查,徐明是注册在美国加州的美国万通投资银行的董事长。于是,记者来到该公司中国代表处,见到了万通网站上所说的中国区首席代表赵昂,不过赵昂表示:“名为首代、实则朋友关系,我们不是靠他们供养。只是徐明多次向我提出要求,我才把他的公司牌子挂了出来。”赵自己是银信中联(北京)投资顾问有限公司的总经理。
According to reporter’s investigation, Ming Xu is CEO of “US WangTong Investment Bank” registered in California. Reporter came to the US office, found WangTong Website’s “top representative in China” Ang Zhao. Zhao however, replied “First rep? Just a friend. I’m not employed by him. He asked me and asked me, and I acquiesed, and put his company name out.” Zhao himself works for China Galaxy Investments.
赵最初说,北京全民迎奥运活动组委会美国分会是美国华人自发的活动,是在美国独立的活动,与北京的组织没有任何合作。
Zhao said, US branch of that org was started by Chinese Americans. It had nothing to do with the organization in Beijing.
后来,赵昂又改口称,春天时徐明收到了全民迎奥运活动组委会的聘书后,在美国发起了这个活动,并且有意发展到中国,“当时我很郑重地告诉他,在中国落地必须要经过奥组委的同意。之后他的活动也就停止了。”
However, later Zhao changed his story. Apparently in Spring Ming Xu got some sort of a delegation letter from Beijing authorizing him to start it, so it can link up with Beijing later. Zhao said, “At the time, I told him he really need to get permission from the Beijing Olympic Committee. Later he stopped.”
然而,杨光明告诉记者,对这个美国分会他一无所知。杨声称,那是在他本人毫不知情的情况下,美籍华人徐明在美国冒充了全民迎奥运活动组委会的名称,“在海外进行圈钱活动”。
However, MingGuang Yang told reporter, that he knew NOTHING about this US branch. Yang said this American Chinese Ming Xu is an imposter using the Beijing All People Welcome Olympic organization to steal funds.
关于徐明手中的聘书——徐曾向赵昂展示过“北京全民迎奥运组委会”给他的一份聘书,杨的解释是,是由“一起干事,自封为全民迎奥运组委会主席的王宏明(音)发给徐明的,我也是看到他们的网站才知道的,根本就没有我的授权,也没有征得我的同意。”
As for what is that authorization letter froming Ming Xu, Yang’s explanation was issued by self-titled “chairman” by the name of HongMing Wong. I only know of it when I saw their website. It was not authorized by me in any way.
记者试图联系这位王宏明,不过杨表示,他也联系不到此人了,“溜了,打电话他也不接”。
Reporter asked what happened to Wong. Yang said he can’t find Wong either. “Ran off. Won’t answer his phone.”
接着,记者通过种种渠道找到了捐款企业之一美国康瑞集团的总裁刘帜在中国的手机号码。
Later, reporter, through his channels, was able to find one of the donator, KangRei Group’s manager Qi Liu’s mobile phone number in China.
“是不是问奥运的事情?”记者尚未发问,接电话人反问记者。但他声称自己并非刘帜本人。
“Are you going to ask about the Olympics?” Even before the reporter asked a question, the answered asked back. However, he claim he was NOT Mr. Liu.
接电话者表示,50万美元的实物都捐给了中国奥运基金会,跟“北京全民迎奥运组委会美国分会”没有任何关系。
The answerer claimed that his 500000 USD donation went to China Olympic Fund. Had nothing to do with Beijing All People Welcome Olympic Committee US Branch”.
然而,在康瑞美国网站的一条新闻中,却明明白白地写着:“北京全民迎奥运”活动组委会、“百万华侨迎奥运”活动筹委会、中国奥运基金会于5月17日举办新闻发布会,刘帜先生在会上宣布,康瑞企业将赞助“全民迎奥运”活动50万美元或等值商品。
However, this was directly contradicted by KanRei US website, where it clearly stated that he was a part of Beijing All People Welcome Olympic Committee Activities Group, and so on, and KangRei will donate 500000 dollars of equivalent merchandise.
更蹊跷的是,记者翻看捐赠企业和万通投资银行的公司简介的时候,发现二者的业务存在着很多的重叠;而国际爱福仁信用卡公司在一则招聘广告上留下的Email地址为ian@worldcapitalmarkets.com——world capital markets就是万通投资银行的英文。
What’s even more interesting is the reporter check the list of donors, he found a lot of overlap with WangTong Investment Bank. Furthermore, 国际爱福仁信用卡公司 International AiFuRen Credit card company left a contact address for hiring… address of WorldCapitalMarket… or WangTong Investment Bank.
(EDITOR NOTE: By this time, it should be clear that 国际爱福仁信用卡公司 is Kingdom card LLC, another Ming Xu creation)
万通中国首席代表赵昂证实,徐明在美国的活动搞起来后并没有筹到资金,目前所谓的捐款“应该都是内部的操作”。
WangTong China first rep Zhao confirmed that Ming Xu’s activities in the US have raised no funds. All such funds raise are “should all be internal operations.”
据上述接电话者称,中国奥运基金会是在美国加州当地注册的,是通过中国大使馆资质认证的合法机构。而杨光明的说法是,该基金会是徐明通过伪造证件,骗取大使馆的批准成立的。
According to the phone answerer, Chinese Olympic Fund Committee is registered in California, through the Chinese Embassy’s approval. Yang however, stated that this Olympic fund was a fraud perpetrated by Ming Xu, with fake documents on the Chinese Embassy.
记者随后联系了中国驻美大使馆,新闻参赞王保东明确表示,所谓“海外百万侨胞迎奥运筹委会”曾与中国驻美使馆联系并得到允许的说法纯属捏造,中国驻美国五个总领馆也不会与上述筹委会有任何联系
Reporter then contacted Chinese Embassy, and press secretary BaoDong Wang clearly stated that “Million Overseas Chinese Olympic Fund Committee” such had NOT gained any sort of approval or endorsement from the Chinese embassy, and any such news are lies. None of the any other Chinese embassies would endorse such committees either.
2007? For just how long has this guy been running his various scams?!
It’s like a freaking investment onion… layer upon layer of dodgy Xu Ming schemes.
Great work K. Chang-
sometimes it just takes people willing to dig a little more who have the skills. Unfortunately there are people who will still fall for these scams.. Just makes me wonder how deep this trail will lead (and to whom)
Correction. AiFuRen is Affluen.com, registered by Ming Xu himself.
And KaiRei is Careux.com, no longer registered on the web.
Here’s Sina.com’s copy of the same news:
http://finance.sina.com.cn/Olympic2008/news/20070918/11103989452.shtml
from the wayback machine (Careux.com Sept 25, 2008) Contact us info..
626-552-3278 is also the number used by our buddy for the contact info for “TheChinaInvestor.com”
Now here’s where things get interesting..
markhound.com/trademark/search/MncWxdPHT
I wonder who Ian is..
and more stuff from our friends regarding the H-1B scam (Contatct Tiger)
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/JobMarket/20432801.html
Siemens Taiwan issues press release disclaiming ANY relations with WCM:
http://www.siemens.com.tw/release/pdf/20131016_110123e.pdf
LB Ian is “Ian Zhang”, who’s also Ian@worldcapitalmarket in that article I translated.
Careux is a part of Ming Xu’s various shell companies. From their About page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20081004194530/http://www.careux.com/company/company1_sc.htm
康瑞企业由美国万通商人投资银行投资孵化,和美国万通国际是姐妹公司。
CareuX Enterprise is invested and incubated by US WangTong Commercial Investment Bank, and is a sister company is US Wangtong International.
美国万通投资银行 is the Chinese name for World Capital Market.
Clearly, this is yet another shell game.
With as often as these clowns show up at various places, you would think they would be locked up by now. It didn’t take long for a few geeks to get several levels into their scams.
Oz, thanks for cleaning up my posts and for giving a home to the fun of the investigation as well =)
I will keep digging
guys, I found a link in chinese website.
http://comments.cnmo.com/comments.php?kindid=7&articleid=172
(Ozedit: Below is a translation kindly provided by reader Kasey)
我一直没搞懂中国万通非法集资和美国徐明万通有什么关系。
(Ozedit: “I never understood what relation is “China WangTong Illegal Investment” and “US Ming Xu WangTong””)
more news I got from Baidu search:
http://www.fcx110.com/dachuandongtai/16104.html
(Ozedit: Google Translate below)
Tiger leads out to Vantone international, which connects up Stanley Stephen Huntsman
http://www.linkedin.com/in/globalhuntsman
You will notice from his linkedin profile photo, he is the master of ceremonies in the video from post #29. He also mentions the Attorney who is claiming all of these clowns are operating in a legit manner.
Vantone is registered to a David Tan, no idea if he’s related to Ming Xu other than it’s in El Monte, CA (not the same as that other El Monte address).
Here’s something funny… Remember Marc Barrett, the guy that tried to flash his MLM history around as if it entitles him special treatment, but he can’t even spot TVI Express as a scam?
He’s posting about WCM777 on twitter
https://twitter.com/mlmsuccesspro/status/394553213094879232
Aw hells no. I’ll translate Spanish and Portuguese as best I can but Chinese is where I draw the line! Inaccurate Google Translate all the way baby!
@KaseyLol I remember that guy. September of 2011 he first came here and posted in the “About” section. If anyone’s after context – https://behindmlm.com/about/#comment-33785
He was butthurt over BehindMLM’s TVI Express coverage at the time.
Entirely not surprised he’s jumped on board with WCM777.
@Oz, you have to stop using that Google Translate as is. It keeps doing “WangTong” as “MassMutual” and it’s killing the translation.
First one:
If you’re happy to translate them I’ll substitute yours in. Otherwise I’m not sure what to do. Not a fan of leaving stuff up that I can’t understand myself, even if it appears to be solid information.
The Spanish/Portuguese stuff I can work with but Chinese is on a whole other level of broken.
Our friends at the wayback machine put the pieces to put Vantone to Tiger, etc
Tiger Liu also lists Vantone on his LinkedIn page..
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/tiger-zhi-liu/4/611/592
from wcm777.me
Wow, that news from Fcx110 says Chinese authorities have ARRESTED WCM777 group in ShengYang! I’ll translate in a moment…
That Fcx110 article is dated 19th of October 2013. If they’ve arrested people in ShengYang, the hell are the Hong Kong authorities doing with their thumbs up their arses?
If China is collapsing no wonder Ming is pushing so hard in South America.
Turned out to be news from 2012: ShenYang WangTong used the bait “buy our stuff now, use points to trade for US company stock when we IPO” to push locals to buy stuff at vastly inflated prices.
http://www.legaldaily.com.cn/index_article/content/2012-07/25/content_3728452.htm?node=5955
That FCX article was a reprint of some Forum posting. I searched for the actual source. I’ll post the other translation in a bit.
Sounds like the precursor to WCM777’s profit points system. “Invest with us and spend 20% of the investment on profit points, which we’ll convert to shares at a later point when we go public”.
If it’s dated 2012, I’m guessing there’s perhaps some jurisdictional issues between HongKong and mainland China?
I read the other day that Hong Kong triads were hitting up Michael Bay for extortion money in public while he was filming Transformers 4… no wonder guys like Ming Xu have based their Ponzi business operations there.
Guys, right now I have not seen the real correlation between Shengyang Vantong and US Vantong. There are so many companies called Vantong in China.
WangTong is apparently literation of Vantone, OTCBB:VNTI, and it was a matter of huge fraud in China in 2012. Someone check if Ming Xu’s linked to that? He’s definitely flying the WangTong flag.
@xianzhong — if you look higher, Tiger Liu was with Vantone as per research by @LB and Tiger Liu is now head of WCM777. That’s a direct link.
K. Chang, the vantone(VNTI) is a different company from the Chinese Ponzi Scheme one.
Here is the link for biography of Phil Xuming
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_67bfab070100orzy.html
He was consulting 沈阳帝杰, the ponzi scheme that was metioned in earlier post by me that is also Shengyang Vanton. He said he was duped by 沈阳帝杰 and backed out.
Also he said the other side lied during the olympic fund raising.
Also 沈阳帝杰’s method of raising money is selling shares that will appreciate 10 to 100 times. In 1and300.com fund selling website, it promises at least 10 times.
Interesting read.
World Capital Market staff as of Jun 18, 2004:
Board of Advisors:
Our Buddy Steve Huntsman appears in 2005
Board of Advisors:
MingFinance.com Appears in Jun 2006:
Sometime in 2011 We are introduced to Phil Rockefeller Ming Xu:
I highly recommend trolling the wayback machine =)
Vantone Tax Certificate (Orange County CA):
Not according to the VNTI stock symbol… Zhi Liu is involved. At the minimum, Zhi Liu is the US figurehead of Vantone.
http://www.legaldaily.com.cn/index_article/content/2012-07/25/content_3728452.htm?node=5955
Ming Xu is laying down the smack on Twitter, wants to meet Kasey face to face!
Maybe Xu will bring his “mafia boss” buddies along to crack some heads:
Awww yeah, fake school founded by “ex” mafia boss missionary now tied to Ponzi pimps. Fuck me you couldn’t make this stuff up.
https://twitter.com/CNPEG
According to LinkedIn, the only two claiming association in the US with Vantone are Steve Huntsman and Tiger Liu. The phone numbers for each report back to other business entities owned by Ming Xu.
Vantone’s address goes to an industrial park (shops with roll-up doors looks more like self storage units)
Tiger Liu
Chief Executive Officer
Zhi Liu
Principal
If there is real interest, I will work out some type of a database (all of these guys move around alot and share phone numbers) Ultimately they all lead back to Ming Xu, but with all of the shuffle long ago, I’m going to need to go to paper and a flow chart (or maybe di it on vizio)
You should check my reply to him. 😀
Priceless – I would be more than happy to have him come meet with me at my office and discuss things =) I’m not far from San Francsico either.
I’m sure he’s pretty happy with the running thread here.
I want to see how he spins his way out of this one.
Should be
And now we know… Vantone in the US eventually morphed into WCM, but they kept the Chinese name WangTong because it’s the same name as MassMutual to confuse people.
Yeah, that was in that LegalDaily article. The boss in China, lastname Yu, originally operated DiJie 帝杰 out of ShengYang 沈阳.
Then he bought a shell company, according Chinese cops, called Vantone International Holdings, apparently arranged through Ming Xu and his buddies Zhi Liu, traded DiJie stock 1 to 1 with Vantone stock, and close DiJie, and operated Vantone as the scam.
If DiJie was 2007, that’s right at the time where Ming Xu allegedly did that illegal fundraiser for Olympic in the US. Timeline seems to fit.
I’d invite him to George Gascon’s office. 😉
(For those who don’t know, George Gascon is the current SF District Attorney, and former SF Police Chief)
What is he gonna do? Make me an offer I can’t refuse? 😉
I just realized this “US Wangtong International” is Vantone International Holdings (OTC:VNTI).
Standard “Not my fault” spin. Can’t really trust any of it.
Let’s face it… how many successes have they had, and how many “bad people” did they run into over the past… oh, 10 or so years?
Either they’re the worst scam-magnet in the world, or they’re in it all along. Or somewhere in the middle.
Add religion, and you have a mess.
Phenomenal background work you guys.
His rambling biography reminds me of Mien Kampf (My Struggles)
Bruno Caporrimo sure looks like an ex mafia boss, and he has also wrote a book called “From Mafia Boss to the Cross”.
Mr. Xuming will speak after Al Gore. I am confused. Either he is legitimate or he fools everyone. http://www.svief.org/2013/english/index.php
He’s a paid sponsor of the program. His having stage time doesn’t give him legitimacy (as has been well argued by other commenters). I doubt very much he was invited to speak about love and the seven mountains.
Anyone going? I would be interested to know what he does talk about and what the overall reception is. I’d really like to a
from wcm777.me website:
So now we have Xu Ming linked to Carlo Bruno Caporrimo..
Carlo can be found here..
http://drbrunocaporrimo.net/film.html
World Capital Market is in the same building (Suite 900). Carlo is apparently the new founder of “Joseph Global Institute” which is owned by Xu Ming.
Joseph Global and Galilees.com (also a Xu Ming domain) once shared hosting on the same machine.
This shits getting weird..
Carlo’s church (everlasting CHIP ministry) is at echipministry.org and from there you can contact the Manna Church International, another Ming Xu hangout.
And there is a little more..
Pack up the kids and load them in the RV – It’s time for the annual Kingdom Economic Summit! (Nov 5-10, 2013 at Big Bear Lake)
kingdomeconomicsummit.com
WCM, Kingdom Card and Manna Source are sponsors..
Hee, hee! My favorite is: “Snake in the Glass’ to study fermentation two page report in essay form.”
The purpose of the Kingdom summit seems to be to tell people that it’s divine to invest in whatever scheme they are running.
They’re pretty good at cherry-picking common phrases from (mostly charismatic) evangelical christianity — just enough to make it sound like it’s actually spiritual–before they thrown in something about jumping into a business relationship because God wants them to. I know financial scams and religion go together like Cheese and Macaroni, but there just seems to be no limits with this guy.
From another evening of digging in the wayback machine.
2002site:callingsaving.com
https://web.archive.org/web/20020806125403/http://www.callingsaving.com/
This marks the beginning of Ming Xu’s earn points buying my calling cards and spend them in my store (the next ebay)
2004Site: sccpa.us
Oldest known photo of Ming Xu found to date. This is from 2004
web.archive.org/web/20041015153058/http://www.sccpa.us/putluck/DSCN2531.JPG
and another from the 2004 banquet which was posted later..
web.archive.org/web/20070403050600/http://www.sccpa.us/photos/dinner.jpg
2006Here we find MingFinance.com (Where he claims partnership with xinhua news.
web.archive.org/web/20060719043952/http://www.mingfinance.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
2007From mingnetwork.com we find all sorts of tidbits, including mingwireless.com mingtv.com youngalways.com mingnews.com and mentions of 1minpost.com callingsaving.com and mingfinance.com.
more to come..
More ming sightings – While digging for ANYONE else in the free world who may have a copy of the Harvard Photo he released, I came across this recent tidbit..
http://www.amazon.com/Way-Prosperity-Phil-Ming-Xu/dp/0988808366/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383192442&sr=1-1
Now he can credit himself as an author to boot. I’m sure he worked closely with the former mafia boss to get his book self-published.
About 4 hours in and I still can not find a record of the HBS class/conference taking place, but noted the dates run through a weekend (which is odd for a 1 week program)
Harvard business school update – I received this email in response to my inquiry about the photo from the school:
Thank you for contacting Harvard Business School Executive Education. You are
correct that we require written authorization from the individual in question in
order to verify attendance in our programs.
That said, I am able to confirm that a session of the Private Equity and Venture
Capital program did run
10/30/2011 to 11/03/2011.
I still don’t believe is on the level by any means, but could have POSSIBLY paid to hang out there for a few days.
wcm777.com still in “website upgrade” status as of now..
Am I missing something here? How do you “graduate” from something that ran for a whole five days?
For “Graduated” read “Satisfied the attendance requirements”
…I just graduated from eating dinner. For reals.
They ignored the photo I sent them allegedly from Ming Xu.
Not that it proves anything. You don’t “graduate” from exec ed. You “finish” executive education.
Guess I’ll have to be better cherry picking anti-scam messages from the Bible to hit them back. Watch me on Twitter. 😀
Looking forward to your responses…
I “graduated” from a 2 day “Forklift truck” course several years ago. It was 1 day theory and a few hours practice, but it actually led to a “forklift truck driver’s license”.
Phil Ming Xu’s 5 day Private Equity and Venture Capital graduation probably led to something similar.
For businesses, the purpose is not to educate people from scratch, but to upgrade them when needed.
They look more like “mantras”.
“Mantras” are something people repeat for themselves in order to create spiritual transformations, e.g. “to pump up self confidence”. They are typically directed towards the person himself rather than towards the outside world.
He’s using MANY methods to convince himself about the realities he WANT to believe in. The use of “mantras” is only one of those methods.
Then I’ll have to pick some that cast doubts, like “beware of false prophets, for they are wolves in sheep’s clothing”
Colombia announced investigation into 20 pyramids, including WCM777
http://www.eltiempo.com/justicia/ARTICULO-WEB-NEW_NOTA_INTERIOR-13146634.html
Either it’s a quiet day or those scammers won’t respond to my Bible quotes…
All that in ten minutes? Oh my.
Dear: K. Chang, I found this webpage when I browse for registration page to WCM777. Before I purchases the golden eggs, I just want to know if you know someone who was involved in this company before and speak out their scam? I’ll appreciate if you send me their link.
Thanks!
You want people who are trying to convince you to invest so they can get their ROI to “speak out their scam?”
Good luck with that. You’re probably better off purchasing those golden eggs if the business model alone doesn’t set off alarm bells.
what I meant is do you have any testimonials of people who have been scammed by this company? I have passed a lot of quick rich scammers by just reading about their good and bad comments.
It’s a Ponzi scheme, those who invest earlier scam later investors.
I suggest you read WCM777’s compensation plan.
There are reports in Chinese newspapers that both of its leaders are connected to scams in China and in the US.
But if you mean WCM777 itself, no. It’s too “new” to have reported “victims”. It only “launched” a few months ago.
I’ve always found the request for testimony from people not getting paid by still operating Ponzi schemes amusing.
A bit like trying to determine if a suspected murderer is indeed a murderer by seeking testimonial from the murder victims confirming they were indeed murdered.
Nobody complains in a Ponzi scheme until new investor money dries up and the scheme collapses.
It would be a mistake to assume Xu is a true believer. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but there have been many, many faith-based scammers who didn’t believe what they preached.
The thing is, from my own experience with Ponzi investors, they are actually reassured by this kind of talk. Some people choose certain Ponzis over others when they learn they can make money for doing nothing AND the CEO is a “christian” (or insert faith here).
Post hoc justification. They decided to participate, then they had to justify why so the latched onto whatever characteristic that catches their eye.
I find it a better metaphor to invoke the Matrix: Is Neo a “victim” before he got “flushed”? Would he know if he’s a victim before then? Would asking him before then help you determine if the Machines are real?
Generally, everybody know the plot of the Matrix (well, except the Mom in “Matrix according to mom” youtube video…)
And more evidence of the crap these guys are spreading.
They claim a corporate alliance with Cray Research (a company I am VERY familiar with).
Cray Research was merged with SGI (Silicon Graphics) in 1996 and became SGI.
Xu Ming states repeatedly in his own bio that he founded WCM in 2003.
Cray was quite the powerhouse in it’s day, but was on the decline for some time before the merger.
How did Ming Xu conduct a $20,000,000 transaction with a company closed 7 years prior? Maybe it till exists on one of those 7 mountains?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68882351@N06/
has the list of their transactions. How many fake ones can you find?
I checked Wikipedia. Cray was brought back to life as a trading name when SGI sold it to Tera Computer Company in 2000 (Tera was renamed Cray Inc. after the merger).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray
Cray Inc. and Cray Research do still exist as company name / trading name. Cray is listed on NASDAQ. Revenue in 2012 was $421 million, employees 929.
The rights to the name still are around, but it has not been used as “Cray Research Inc.” for anything legitimate since the initial merger. The rights to the name are kept alive by the family for trademark issues. (At least that is my understanding – info from the remnants of IBIS).
The current Cray isn’t Cray Research, and the logo WCM is using is not the post merger logo which was only used for a couple of years. I have the SGI era logo on a coffee cup from just after the merger. The logo they are sporting is the old one.
I can not speak to Cray but don’t be misled by the large numbers. It is very possible that World Capital Markets Inc. participated in the fundings, however the $ amount of their participation could be any percentage (above zero) of the total raise.
That Flickr list you provided is mostly a lot of show. WCMs actual portfolio companies, about a half a dozen of them are little internet stores than could be run out of a basement.
i just invest three week ago.. and i cant open my back office.i hope some one can help me.
The thing about those slides is that in fine print on most of them it says WCM’s principals acted as Financial Advisor. It’s the affiliates that are making it sound like WCM is involved in the actual lending.
I am reading this post in the last few days and trying to figure if you guys are right or not.
Does someone have any info about Ming Xu speech in SVIEF ?
svief.org/2013/english/index.php
Under “Agenda” section in that page i found this:
And there is a picture with Ming Xu and Steve Wozniak in that event.
A video of his ten minute address is viewable on this website.
The video clearly show a 10 minute speech, so it’s at the main stage.
He wasn’t listed as a keynote speaker initially in the official agenda. He was added to the agenda on Monday before the event for some reasons, as a solution to a problem or something. WCM World Capital Market was a Diamond Sponsor to the event, and the photos are simply a part of the sponsor package. The 10 minute speech ISN’T a part of that package.
You will find the 10 minute video in the following link (under the user name SVIEF2013) leading to one of the other WCM777 threads. It should lead directly to the correct comment (if you’re lucky):
He doesn’t fit well into the role as a keynote speaker. He starts well with plain and simple ideas, but most of his speech is difficult to understand for common people. I believe he was speaking on “auto pilot” during most of his speech (the type of speech you get from people when they have that “out of body” experience, and words come out of their mouth by itself). But he STARTED well.
That’s a part of the sponsorship package. “Photo with VIP persons” (1 photo with each of the VIP guests).
You’re going to want to READ through the comments here and on the initial review.
Just for grins, check out a new Twitter account… @NOTCNPEG
I am grinning.
Actually i did, and there is a guy who said back in this topic that he was calling authorities to arrest Ming Xu in this event. Im not doubting or anything, but did he get arrested?
I am asking all of this because one of my friends invested in wcm777 and the payouts are all ok. So he is tempting me to affiliate in the network. I don’t want lose money so..
And if WCM was kicked out from the US, how do they allowed the company to be one of the SVIEF sponsors ?
Sounds to me like you’re fine with Ponzi schemes and are just looking for an excuse to join.
Ming Xu getting arrested shouldn’t be a primary factor in deciding whether to invest in WCM777.
Nope. But the fact that SVIEF and US government allowing WCM to sponsor the event sounds like they are fine with Ponzi schemes in your point of view..
And I’m not looking for excuses, this is one of the topics in the internet that people are serious discussing about WCM. I’m looking for info. And I don’t mean to offend anyone here, sorry if I did.
Never happened.
You must look below the surface.
Then do not be tempted to place your money in ANY scheme that promises such high returns.
WCM has not been “kicked out.” That is a misconception. WCM paid to advertise at the SVIEF convention.
I won’t risk my money while this is not very clear, thanks for the advice Hoss.
But SVIEF accepted Ponzi’s money that is not good for the others but is good for them??
This is very strange in my point of view. And do you guys have any idea how this event will help WCM to get even more affiliates.. The official page is being replicated over the internets with Ming Xu pict as a speaker. US government is the one helping spread the WCM network right now.
@TheOneSkeptical
You mean fine from your point of view. I don’t equate the private sponsorship of an event likely to be under a different company name than WCM777 as government endorsement.
The business model alone should tell you everything you need to know about WCM777.
You are assuming that SVIEF and the government know that WCM is a ponzi. Its most likely they do not. The burden is on you, to protect yourself…
Do not rely on SVIEF to be your policeman. Do not rely on BIG Government to tell you what you can invest in. You are the captain of your own ship. Sail well.
You have to keep in mind Ming Xu has multiple layers. WCM777 closed in the US. WCM is still active in the US (separate layers). He has a dozen (or more) companies registered in California, Delaware, and Nevada.
Thanks for your answer K. Chang. So reading all of this, and in my understanding, the only reason to not join the network is immoral matters.
I mean, if someone affiliate today he will participating in a Ponzi scheme, which is wrong, but will not losing money or be arrested since even Ming Xu was not.
And what about others countries, if the person lives in Africa or Australia, will this person have trouble or something?
Of course you can lose money. You’re the sheep in this story line.
Just Wow.
You get that it’s “immoral” because you’re investing in nothing, right? You’re giving money to someone who gives you nothing in return, and IF you get your money back, it’s coming from some schmuk who did the same thing.
When the schmuks go away, you stop getting your money back. It’s not a sustainable business model because it’s not a business.
Whether or not you get arrested shouldn’t be your primary concern before getting involved in a Ponzi scheme. Your primary concern should be that it’s a BAD INVESTMENT. You might as well pile your money (with all your friend’s and neighbor’s money) in your yard and light it on fire.
SVIEF accepted sponsor money from WCM, not Ponzi money from WCM777. It may or may not be the same source of money, but we don’t have enough information to identify that clearly.
“Will not be losing money”? That’d be false. There’s a GOOD chance s/he will lose money when WCM777 suddenly decide to ban all US participants. And what are you going to do? Sue them in a court in Hong Kong? Then they’ll say they’re really a BVI corporation. Then what?
As for arrested, probably not.
But if the MORAL reason that you’d be taking someone else’s money is NOT enough to stop you… Well, may whatever deity you believe in (or spirit, or whatever) preserve your soul (if you have one).
Sorry but i dont see any evil on WCM.
I just want to be sure here if this is not one of those:
“US can cap money all around the globe but when someone else try let´s ban them.”
And are you guys sure about this Ponzi thing, because looks like US is jealous because someone oversea is making money and Madoff can’t anymore. The economy in China is growing faster..
Ah so you’re just looking for an excuse to invest in Ponzi schemes, someone to tell you “it’s all going to be alright”.
You should have just opened with that instead of tiptoeing around it, would have saved a lot of time.
If you want investment advice head on over to one of the affiliate’s promoting the scheme. I’m sure they’ll he happy to assist in reassuring you that your money is safe in Ponzi schemes. Note that when give them your money they’ll probably hand you a bucket filled with sand in return – that’s to bury your head in.
You’ve been warned. See ya sucker.
To a blind man, an elephant can be a tree trunk, a python, a soft warm blanket, or a sharp horn.
Perhaps you’re just fixated on the portions you CAN see, and ignoring the portions you CANNOT see. Much like an iceberg.
But the only ones talking bad things about WCM are you 3 guys..
I don’t have money to invest in WCM right now, and i’m not posting here for excuses.
The point is that you 3 say is wrong to join the network but my friend is making good money, so I still don’t understand why not affiliate.
The main topic here should normally be WCM777 (not WCM), its business model and “related topics”. WCM belongs to the last group.
A business model and a compensation plan is relatively straight forward to analyse. You will get most of the answers from that part, the most important ones.
All the “related topics” are less straight forward to analyse. They will fill in different parts of the picture, but also lots of confusing parts. The confusing parts are often related to people’s OWN ideas, not to the facts themselves (e.g. some facts can be rather unimportant in themselves, but people will spend time discusssing them anyway).
IMPORTANT PARTS
Ponzi scheme isn’t about WHAT people are investing in, i.e. whether or no there are some products or services attached to the investment, or some work opportunity. Investment is about WHY you pay money in to someone, what you expect to get in exchange for your money. Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent type of investment, where money from new investors are used to pay the old ones.
LESS IMPORTANT PARTS
Whether the payouts are paid out as “points” or money isn’t really important. “Points” or “internal currencies” are actually one of the main signatures of a fraudulent investment scheme.
“Ponzi OR pyramid” isn’t really important. Both are illegal. “Ponzi AND pyramid” isn’t really important either, i.e. most fraudulent investment schemes will be a combination of many different models.
The SVIEF sponsorship or the SVIEF speech are mostly important for marketing purposes. Phil Ming Xu is using MANY methods like that. It looks like he’s trying to “outweight” negative attention in the market.
If there are any problems in the sponsorship or the money used to pay for it, SVIEF will need to handle that situation themselves.
Lawfirm Barnett & Linn will need to handle their own situation. They gave a very incomplete analysis of WCM777’s business model. That’s a legal risk they’re taking, but they will need to handle that themselves.
The situation in Colombia is “upcoming” = we don’t have enough information about it.
Whether or not your friend is making money isn’t really important. Ponzi and pyramid schemes will always pay out money as long as new investors are paying enough money in. You should probably look at some of the clawback discussions here to see WHY it’s not important.
Your friend will make MORE money if you invest, potentially at your expense. If he’s a good friend and you want to give him your money, you should clearly do so. He will make money from anyone you bring in too, potentially at THEIR expense (the people you bring in). If that sounds like a good idea you should clearly do so.
Most of the different companies and websites (e.g. MannaTV, Joseph’s Global Institute, etc.) are unimportant. Most of them have very limited commercial functions, i.e. they are not really businesses.
@TheOneSkeptical
WCM777 is a Ponzi scheme.
Your friend has taken the bait. He is getting a taste so that he will invest even more.
You have to understand that they are planting dreams into his head so that he believes there is an EASY way to earn money. But that is not correct. Eventually the promoters will set the hook and your friend will be just another fish caught by his own greed.
Lets try this scenario –
Step 1.You have a friend who is making great money supplying guns to a group of people who rob liquor stores. He provides the guns to the gang, and then in turn repay him a portion of cash from each of the robberies.
Step 2.Your friend has limited access to more firearms and wants to “bring you in to this wonderful opportunity”. He introduces you to a few gang members that could possibly deal guns, but the kicker is you have to give your friend in Step 1 a cut of the money you get from the commissions of the robberies group 2 is doing. (Your friend in step one is making even more money.)
Step 3.Your supply of guns is running low but you know a better buddy that has even more guns than you that they could supply for this business venture and you bring them in as well. Now you take a have friend 2 in business, and take a cut off his profits, to pay friend 1 his kickback.
As long as there are liquor stores to rob, everything will be going great. There is constantly new gangs who are interested in the business of robbing people, and everyone is making money hand over fist. The guys closest to the top are getting paid HUGE the bigger this thing gets.
Until the Police come along..
Now if you are higher up in this lovely venture, most if not all of the assets you “EARNED” will likely be seized by the authorities (notice how most of these ventures also entice new recruits by saying how all of this can be done avoiding taxation)
Now if your Moral Compass did not go off after any of the three steps listed above that “something is not right with this” I would have to imagine you have no soul, sense of morals or personal ethics.
You knew from the start people, people whom you don’t or possibly do know will be losing cash and goods from their liquor stores. In that sense, there will be a lot of hurt. Sure you might have a few extra dollars you would not have had the opportunity to make, but at the expense of the lives involved.
Any business man will tell you there isn’t an safe, easy, quick way to make money. Making money is accomplished through compensation for skills/goods or tangible work.
Would you walk up to your best friend and punch him in the mouth and take his wallet? Probably not.
Knowing the likely scenario that people you are recruiting and below run a high risk of losing everything wouldn’t sit right with me.
But, if you have ABSOLUTELY no moral alarms going off about joining something like WCM777 after reading what is here and the other sites, Can sleep well with the knowledge you are building a high chance for an associate to lose everything – I suggest you implement the above listed scenario.
These plans go after peoples greed and tendency to be dishonest on one side, then attack the next market of people with religion and associations with important famous people (the smart ones) to convince those who can sense something’s wrong, but can justify it to themselves it’s ok because someone has a picture with WOZ or Al Gore (inventor of the internet) that it’s legitimate.
We are the people who see through the crap, and feel sorry for the ones that don’t. We are the people who don’t want to see others get their money taken from them, even if it’s just one cent, by a crook.
We are probably better “Friends” to people we don’t know just by placing this information out there to let people know the risks. We are the people who are confident enough in our computer skills to research claims that do not seem right. We are the ones who caused Siemens to issue a press release calling out the lies being told by the head of the group to the investors in his downline.
We are the ones who discovered the connections to other frauds ran by the same people (Vantone, The Olympics, Immigration Visas). We are the ones who have done the leg work to clearly show WCM777 is not a revolutionary new business model, but the same used Buick with a new coat of paint and some sharp new rims.
Everyone here should be thanking Oz, Hoss, KChang mNorway and every other author here for at least giving you the facts, not just as they see them.
I tried to separate between “important” and “less important” in my post #166. I should probably have used a different description, e.g. “What others will need to take care of themselves, before we can be able to identify it correctly”.
* Siemens have handled a public situation quite correctly. WCM777 used Siemens in marketing arguments, as a method to add “credibility” to the opportunity. Siemens have handled that situation correctly, the public part of it.
That situation was easy to identify, i.e. people could ask questions directly about marketing statements and get relatively straight answers from Siemens.
* SVIEF’s situation is much more vague. If we start to ask questions to SVIEF it will probably generate confusion. The agreement there is simply a normal sponsorship agreement with some minor adjustments for that specific sponsor = not illegal in itself.
That part isn’t easy to identify. It doesn’t make much sense asking any questions either.
* Lawfirm Barnett & Linn potentially deserves to receive some questions. Their “Legal assessment” is published on the internet, and is probably used in marketing to defend the legality of the WCM777 program.
Barnett & Lind can be asked general questions about how their “legal assessment” is meant to be interpreted by a general audience. It’s also possible to ask some detailed questions about it, but if I’m able to identify those questions correctly I will normally not need any “external answers”.
* Most other of the “less important parts” are simply too vague. They are “fragments of information found on the internet”.
If the SVIEF photos had any significant importance, it would have been documented by more than photos, e.g. if Al Gore’s handshake was meant to be a personal recommendation of Phil Ming Xu he would probably have written a letter about it.
E.g. “Here’s a photo of me and my business friend Phil Ming Xu. The photo itself is meant to be interpreted as my personal and unconditional recommendation of him and his business ventures. This statement is valid 1 year from date. Al Gore, 45th Vice President of the USA”.
If Phil Ming Xu didn’t get a letter like that, the photo is probably not meant to be interpreted in that way either.
And Colombian news media, which called WCM777 a pyramid scheme. AND that lead to the Colombian president recommending his National police chief to start a investigation in WCM777
AND various other South Americans who noticed the news and the warning signs. I’m sure you can find them on Twitter.
You are analyzing it wrong. The NUMBER of people saying things does not make things true or false. The FACTS AND LOGIC of what was said is what makes things true or false.
I said it before. If you don’t care about the possibility that 1) you CAN lose your money, 2) if you do make net profit it’ll be MONTHS later and 3) if you really do there’s a GOOD chance it came from other people like you, making you an accomplice (i.e. receiver of goods obtained through fraud)… then by all means, join, and take your chances.
I forgot. Go look up Wikipedia for “Judas Goat”. How do you know your friend is not one? How does he know he’s not one?
There are ponzi schemes, and then there is this:
At what point can we just call WCM777 a cult?You can call it a cult now. It’s not proven to be a destructive cult yet.
Someone’s acting.
Remind anyone of a guy named Jim Jones??
Has anyone fainted yet?
https://behindmlm.com/companies/world-consumer-alliance-reboot-due-to-scam-reports/#comment-131165
PPBlog
Probably, but only because they were moved by the holy spirit.
Meh. I agree with K. Chang. They’re not destructive…yet. Just a financial scam with a big personality leading the scheme. When they start moving into bunkers to prepare for the “Kingdom Economy”, then we can make those comparisons.
That said, Xu posted a picture on his twitter on 11/9 of “the ending time” that was borderline build-a-bunker territory.
Or better, any one died and brought back to life yet?
Xu’s twitter account is Ah – may – zing! He is just a fount of never ending B.S. (is there a Bible verse about that?)
I LOVE that he thinks he can threaten Siemens with libel! I seriously hope their attorneys are working on more than a Cease and Desist letter.
Sounds like a plan to me.
People have been waiting for years for one of these loudmouth fraudsters to follow through with his / her threat and take somebody to court.
Can you imagine the headlines and media interest ???
^^ Why I think he may be getting dangerous. He’s starting to buy into his own B.S.
It would be extremely entertaining to see something get to court from him though. Just by his own admissions to being involved in previous scams, domains he has purchased, Foundations he has started, phony claims of degrees earned, companies he has claimed to work with, etc it would be great!
Screw it Phil – I think (all of the companies whom you have used their name to misrepresent your trillion dollar company) they have more of a libel case against you for claiming “your” companies have assisted/worked in cooperation with them.
Oh and where did “Tiger” take off to? Running the home office back in China, or still running his own scam in the USA. The good news is most of your bullshit claims are archived forever in the Library of Congress.
Good luck with your lawsuits, Douche!
Just tossed that back in his face, something about ordained minister, being humble and all, shouldn’t need to “save face”, and where was this “receipt” for the last month? Hmmm?
(the video in post #173)
Did I hear it correctly? Was he INVITED to move in with the cult at around 3:30 (3:00 – 4:00) into the video? 🙂
She was talking about “top floor of this building, a penthouse suite that will cost $10,000 per month to rent”.
You can tell by that sweet drum kit and all of the work that goes into maintaining the walls in that building that the penthouse suite is probably pretty plush, so $10,000 is probably about right.
Yeah, which bible says if someone calls you out on a lie, sue them for libel?
Yes, lol!
Well, the Christian God has always been pretty clear that only the rich survive the end times, so it makes perfect sense. #sarcasm
Anyone want to forward this to Siemens? It was published on November 13th, 2013 –
(auto Chinese translation is not 100% accurate)
Reverse SEO attempt? Looks to me to be an effort to plant a seed to be pointed back on at a later date – uploaded only after WCM777 and Xu were caught out lying.
http://wcm777.cn.roowei.com/news/newid-732885.html
It’s obvious he’s reading here – Hi Phil! =)
I asked about where Tiger has been, and BANG – Photo of Tiger and Phil having dinner comes up on twitter.
Where has Elaine Zhao been these days Phil?
Colombia published name of 34 suspected pyramid schemes… in addition to WCM777. Fortunately, none seem to be global like WCM777, except maybe one or two names on the list that looks mighty suspicious… Cuiros.com?
http://www.diariodelhuila.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42247:alerta-por-operacion-de-mas-de-34-piramides-ilegales-en-colombia&catid=35:noticias-destacadas
Why does Phillip Xu not use his middle name “Rockefeller” outside of China? 🙂
Ok, I screwed that one up =) Hope he doesn’t get mad and sue me.
I was hoping he could tell us all about..
Winstone Ventures, Inc
Keiko Clean Card
Subei Business Development
MassMutual Investments
CallingSaving.com
Always Young(youngalways.com)
dvd688.com
Etech Securities
careux.com
LSG
mingmoney.com
mingfinance.com
mingtv.com
mingnetwork.com
galilees.com
onetravelnet.com
1minpost.org
Harmony Investment International
China Fuhua New Material Holdings, INC.
Leading Asia Pacific Investment Limited
Unitech International Investment Holdings Ltd
Andy Wang
If he could clear those few things/people up for everyone it would be great!
Oh, I can tell you about Mass Mutual. 🙂
The following is a bit fuzzy on the details, take the years with plenty of salt.
In 2004-2005 ish Phil setup this company called Vantone International holdings. He picked the name WangTong. Whether he knows if it’s the same as Mass Mutual’s Chinese name is unknown, but there’s no doubt who’s got the better claim to it (not him). And he started calling his org Vantone Investment Bank (even though he doesn’t own a bank) There are a couple variations, but it’s same idea: Vantone Bank.
Then in the time frame of 2010 or so, Phil was touting his “bank” with his stock buddies in China, claiming to help local companies get inc’ed and listed on Chinese exchanges, when he found some guy in Shengyang by the name of Honggang Yu, who ran a local company called DiJie. Apparently he doesn’t like the name and want only only to get listed in China, he want to get listed in the US.
What happened next is Phil sold the name Vantone International Holdings to this Yu guy, so this guy then convert his DiJie company into Vantone (China), and Phil put his buddy Tiger as head of Vantone Intl Holdings (USA).
So this Yu guy then made Vantone into a pyramid selling scheme… selling a water purifier for 8 times market price and so on, and claimed that any one who bought stuff can BUY options to company stock a merely $1 per share. And enjoy HUGE profits when the IPO goes through. He got arrested in 2012 and the whole thing died.
What’s interesting is Phil then setup “World Capital Market”, but kept using the Vantone name… but ONLY IN CHINESE. The MassMutual miracle? “Vantone Miracle”.
It’s not hard to reconstruct the timeline if you search VNTI, and read some Chinese. 🙂 AND access the Wayback machine.
I’m sure Phil will let us know how far off I was by threatening to sue me.
Phil sure has been toned down lately. Even his twitter seems to be automated drivel. Dr Carlos Bruno also seems to be diving for deeper waters, well below radar
Its now called kingdom777. I say its a scam! I already reported to FBI to investigate while still in action.
Does anyone know if this Avi Rapaport guy is the guy in Switzerland now?
Can’t imagine that’s a common name.