WCM777 Review: Cloud services & investment returns
World Capital Market (of which WCM777 are supposedly the marketing branch) claim to be based out of the British Virgin Islands. The company launched in 2013 and held a “grand opening” on June 17th in the US.
On the WCM777 website (“wcm777.com”) a “certificate of incorporation” has been uploaded, with the date 8th of May 2009 given as the incorporation date for World Capital Market Inc.
Specifics on WCM777 and where and if they are incorporated anywhere are not provided, with the company only stating in their Income Disclosure Statement that:
WCM777 is a direct selling e-commerce company legally registered in the United States.
A lot of information is provided on the WCM777 website about World Capital Market but nothing specifically on WCM777.
Management wise the Founder of WCM777 and World Capital Market is Xu Ming. Ming’s WCM777 corporate bio states
Xu Ming (is) a devout Christian, an active angel investor, private equity fund investor, M&A expert and investment banker in China and the United States.
He is a strategist in doing optimal allocation and integration of resources globally.
He has successfully taken eight companies public and has sold one of his portfolio companies to a China state-owned large enterprise in China with a value of 400 million RMB.
Dr. Xu has the proven ability and track records to do capital multiplication.
Dr. Xu Ming has a master’s degree in communication management from the University of Southern California. He graduated from Harvard Business School PEVC (venture capital and private equity funds program), and also was educated at UCLA and the University of Chicago in finance, mergers and acquisition, and Wall Street strategy.
He also has a PhD in Theology from Joseph Global Institute.
World Capital Market Inc., founded by Dr. Xu Ming, is one of the 100 greatest international investment institutions selected in 2008 and he was honored as one of the world’s Top Ten Outstanding Chinese Investors of the Year in China.
Dr. Xu Ming is always actively involved in social welfare undertakings and in contributing to the community. His vision is to be united by love and reclaim the 7 mountains, building the city upon a hill.
Ming clearly appears to come from a finance and investment background, whether or not he has any MLM experience is unclear.
WCM777’s CEO is named as Liu Zhi with his prior involvement in the MLM industry again unclear.
Read on for a full review of the WCM777 MLM business opportunity.
The WCM777 Product Line
WCM777’s product line are a series of cloud-based services, marketed under the brand World Cloud Media 7 (WCM7).
Cloud-based services WCM7 provide include gaming, ebooks, music, video, storage, gambling and a social network.
At the time of publication most of the services advertised on the WCM7 website were still “under construction”:
The WCM777 Compensation Plan
The WCM777 compensation plan revolves around affiliate purchasing and continuing to re-purchase positions in the company’s compensation plan.
The WCM777 compensation plan revolves around affiliates purchasing positions in the compensation plan. Each of these positions generates a passive daily ROI for 100 days, paid out as follows:
- Junior Distributor ($399) – $4 a day ($400 total ROI)
- Supervisor ($799) – $8 a day ($800 total ROI)
- Manager ($1199) – $12 a day ($1200 total ROI)
- Senior Manager ($1599) – $16 a day ($1600 total ROI)
- Director ($1999) – $32 a day ($3200 total ROI)
WCM777 pay out referral commissions on the purchase of membership positions by affiliates. WCM777 do this by using a unilevel compensation structure.
A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of the structure, with every personally recruited affiliate placed directly under them (level 1).
If any of these level 1 recruited affiliates go on to recruit new affiliates of their own, they are placed on level 2 of the original affiliate’s unilevel. If any level 2 affiliates recruit new affiliates they are placed on level 3 and so on and so forth down six levels of recruitment.
How much of a commission (paid out as a percentage of the Business Volume (BV) and profit points generated) an affiliate earns with each membership purchase, is determined by their own affiliate membership purchase amount:
- Junior Distributor – 20% on level 1 and 1% on levels 2 to 6
- Supervisor – 20% on level 1 and 1.5% on levels 2 to 6
- Manager – 20% on level 1 and 2% on levels 2 to 6
- Senior Manager -20% on level 1 and 2.5% on levels 2 to 6
- Director – 20% on level 1 and 3% on levels 2 to 6
Level Differential Bonus
Expanding on the referral commissions offered above and again based on how much money an affiliate spends on membership, the Level Differential Bonus is an additional referral bonus offered to WCM777 affiliates.
The easiest way to explain to the Level Differential Bonus is to imagine each of the WCM777 affiliate membership positions as being able to earn a maximum percentage on referral commissions between levels 2 to 6:
- Supervisor – 2%
- Manager – 3%
- Senior Manager – 4%
- Director – 5%
How the commission works is that if an affiliate receives a referral commission and they fall on levels 2 to 5 of the standard referral commission payout, their upline, if they purchased a more expensive membership option, can earn an additional percentage commission on top of their standard referral commission.
Directors for example earn 3% on levels 2 to 6, however if a Junior Distributor was on the level before them, that Junior Distributor earns their standard 1% with the remaining 2% being passed up to the Director (for a total 5% commission payout).
If the Junior Distributor was say a Senior Manager, the passup percentage would then only be 0.5% (Senior Managers make 2.5% of the 3%), resulting in a 3.5% net total referral commission for the upline Director.
This pass up is named the Level Differential Bonus and is available on all referral commissions.
Residual commissions are paid out in WCM777 using a binary compensation structure. A binary compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of the structure with two positions directly under them:
These two positions form the start of two sides, with volume generated by each side matched up to create a commission.
When 360 BV (generated via the purchase of membership positions by affiliates) is matched up between the two binary sides, the WCM777 affiliate at the top of the binary earns a $20 binary commission.
Binary commissions are calculated daily and capped at $10,000.
WCM777 use a 2×15 matrix to pay out membership position commissions, based on the amount of membership positions affiliates in a downline purchase.
A 2×15 matrix places a WCM777 affiliate at the top of the matrix, with two positions directly under them (level 1). In turn, these two positions branch out into another 2 positions (level 2) and so on and so forth down 15 levels.
Practically speaking, a 2×15 matrix looks exactly like a binary, however a binary is not restricted in depth.
Commissions wise WCM777 pay out $6 per affiliate-purchased position in a matrix. How many levels an affiliate is paid out on depends on how much money they spend on their own membership position:
- Junior Distributor – 7 levels
- Supervisor – 9 levels
- Manager – 11 levels
- Senior Manager – 13 levels
- Director – 15 levels
Global Buying Bonus
Whereas the above commissions are all tied into an affiliates own downline efforts or that of their up and downlines, the Global Buying Bonus is a 3×7 matrix that is company-wide.
Membership positions bought globally within the company are placed into a giant matrix, of which each affiliate-purchased position receives a 3×7 matrix inside of.
This matrix operates in the same manner as the 2×15 matrix above, but instead has three positions on the first level, nine on the second and so on and so forth down seven levels.
WCM777 pay out $7 per position purchased which is added into an affiliates 3×7 matrix.
Profit Points are issued with each membership position purchase, with WCM777 claiming that the points ‘will be turned into stock when WCM goes public on NASDAQ‘.
In addition to points generated on the purchase of membership positions, 20% of all WCM777 affiliate’s earnings are held by the company “to purchase profit points” with.
Affiliate membership to WCM777 appears to be free, however affiliates are required to purchase membership positions in order to generate commissions.
Product wise I have no idea why WCM777 list WCM7’s cloud-based services on their website. The cloud services have nothing to do with WCM777’s compensation plan or commission structure.
The idea that affiliates are somehow purchasing access to WCM7 cloud-based services fall flat when you consider that affiliates can purchase multiple positions in the compensation plan. Re-investment via repurchase of positions only makes any such claims even more absurd.
Compensation plan wise WCM777 pretty much resembles that of your typical Ponzi scheme. Affiliates put in money and the more money they put in the more money they get out.
Affiliates join the company and then pick an investment level they wish to invest in at. Upon doing this WCM777 pay them a passive 100 day ROI, with additional commissions paid out if they recruit others who make investments with the company.
The WCM777 website attempts to pass off the supposed legitimacy of World Capital Market Inc. as itself somehow legitimizing WCM777’s business model, however I fail to see anything not indicating that WCM777 simply take in new investor money and pay it back out to existing investors over 100 days.
WCM7’s cloud-based services don’t even appear to be up and running, further strengthening the probability of affiliate money being shuffled around within WCM777 to pay everyone out.
I did see some waffle about a Kingdom Card and merchants, but this was touted as “coming soon” and similarly appeared to have nothing to do with WCM777’s current business model or investment returns they are paying out.
The Profit Points was interesting, with WCM777 withholding 20% of earnings to convert into these points on the promise of a later public float of the company.
Let me blunt in saying this is never going to happen with the current Ponzi scheme themed WCM777 business model. Additionally, whether WCM777 have registered themselves with the SEC is not clarified on their website.
Additionally the registration of World Capital Market in the BVI pretty much gives the game away.
WCM777 create huge liabilities on each position purchased far beyond the 100 day ROI they guarantee. Once matrix, binary and referral commissions are factored in, the sustainability of the scheme hits truly astronomically ridiculous levels.
And of course underscoring this is the time-tested flaw all Ponzi schemes suffer from, that being that once affiliates stop purchasing membership positions, those 100 day “guaranteed passive returns” aren’t so guaranteed anymore.
In order to abide by the specific rules and regulations of different countries, WCM777 has not entered into the Chinese market.
Any agent who joined WCM777 through a third-party country or the internet must comply with the local laws and regulations, and legally operate abiding by the relevant laws of the host countries.
Should there be any violation of laws, the agent shall be fully liable for the consequences. WCM777 assumes no responsibility for any charge.
Simply put, whether they are indeed registered in the US or in actuality China (which the above text from WCM777’s Income Disclosure Statement suggests), WCM777 as an MLM business opportunity isn’t going to end well.
Many Many Many Zeek/Profitable Sunrise/ Telexfree and the Chineese CBSomething168 money game scammers have been calling and promoting this ‘bucket’ of bloodsport project to me…
It was pitched as an ‘offshore’ program where the feds couldnt get their grubby hands on what was developing…my response was/is… yes!…but they CAN get you!
I watched the iWowwe marketing video just a minute ago…what the heck has been happening with our beautiful ‘Next Best Chance for the Average Person’ industry…
Those two scruffy boys have done a pretty good job of being ‘Bad-Assed Marketers’ and they seem like OK enough guys but the trends lately are that emerging deals like this turd of a deal at WCM777, iWowwi, PS, Telex, Zeek and the CB?168 deals all have a bit of an ‘edge’ component to them…
This edgy-ness is so very underwhelming and greasy…..
Is it just me or is wcm7 / wcm777 websites are down?
It’s not just you and neither website can be pinged, either.
hi, the new URL wcm777pay.com/
They were down intermittently for me too whilst writing the review.
Not exactly the hosting you’d expect for an allegedly massive investment firm.
Interesting: the most of “visitors” of zombie website is from Brazil and China:
Brazil living the boom of scams. Incredible!
Notice Telexfree.com on this list… From Alexa
Which sites did people visit immediately before this site?
Site Percent of Unique Visits
1. facebook.com 13.4%
2. google.com 9.4%
3. youtube.com 5.7%
4. google.com.br 4.7%
5. telexfree.com 3.3%
6. worldcapitalmarket.com 1.4%
The website simply looks like cheap scam = “social proofs” stacked onto each other, no real business functions, no real business language, minimalistic content (“News” and the 6 links on the front page leads to the same popups).
* 45 hits for “site:wcm777.com” = practically no content
If the website reflects the organizers, they’re clearly unprofessional.
Sounds hm unbelievable. I think they also misspelled “Siemans”.
There’s absolutely no “business logic” on that website, other than the product presentation. It looks more like random “fill” or “demo stuff”.
Business logic = “Why would anyone visit our website, and what do they expect to find? And how can we help them to find it?”, and similar ideas.
A business man would normally not expect that people will want to look at photo galleries “News” and “Events” (3 samples of each, one of them is “Merry Christmas”). 🙂
The website is probably set up to confuse people. “Under construction” would have been less confusing.
BTW, it has a clone wcm-777.com, a similar site.
Why do they say this “Xu Ming (is) a devout Christian,” This scares me. Your faith is unnecessary to state if and when you’re operating a legit business.
Imagine that, christians running ponzies!
facebook.com/Wcm777 – “WCM International” – from Brazil.
the holding web:
So I was right, they are based in China.
Only Ponzi schemes are quite illegal in China with some rather harsh penalties, hence the offer only outside of China and business registration in the BVI.
WCM777 is not a MLM company. It’s a social capital company, with the high goal of building a global community trust and love. The first Internet revolution is led by Google and Amazon; the second Internet revolution is led by Facebook and Twitter and etc.
It’s all about reducing transaction cost and creating prosperity. The implicit here is all about relationship. WCM777 is leading the 3rd Internet revolution by building a global community trust and love. Like Jesus, coming into the world but be of different of the world.
WCM777’s cloud products and Kingdom Card are open to all people, not just MLM people. MLM is like promotion strategy for the company. Its existing promotion has time limits.
The company’s strategy to compete with time and grow big fast. One of its products is unlimited cloud storage, only charge $5.99 a month, much cheaper than Dropbox and Google Drive.
The founder, Phil Ming Xu’s strategy is to be united by love and reclaim the 7 mountains. God gives him the vision of ending time. It’s time to build the storehouse to prepare the 7 years famine like Joseph in Old Testament.
The Babylon system will collapse inevitably as revealed in the Revelation of Bible. It’s time to build a Goshen place for Christian by building a transitional kingdom before the tribulation time and Millennium Kingdom.
Right now, the company is BVI registered and operates offshore. USA is a service place. The company haven’t really open USA market. The company is planning to register with MLM association while promoting in USA.
Most of members are now from China and Brazil. Its English sites are being polished and updated.
MLM compensation plan? MLM company.
That’s all very well, but it has nothing to do with the compensation plan or how affiliates are paid out.
Affiliates invest money in WCM777 and earn a passive daily ROI.
Yeah good luck with that.
The SEC don’t give a rat’s arse about Phil Ming Xu’s religious philosophy or how it supposedly justifies running a Ponzi scheme. Neither do I.
The company’s products are open to all people, not just MLM people. Thus, it can’t be defined as MLM company. MLM is like promotion strategy to scale and globalize its products.
Also it’s not passive return, it’s like products rebates.
Lastly, the promotion has a time limit and it’s not a Ponzi Game. The company operates at a loss in the beginning in order to grow big fast.
Amazon operates at a loss for 10 years.Now it’s a multi billion dollar company.
“MLM people” is not a race. MLM people participate in MLM business opportunities. WCM777 is an MLM business opportunity in that it uses an MLM compensation plan.
Nah. It’s a passive return.
The “but we’re buying products” argument falls short when you consider affiliates re-invest their ROI into multiple positions (someone needs thousands of copies of the same cloud-based services? Riiiiight).
Just because you set a limit on the number of days the ROI is paid doesn’t make it any less of a Ponzi scheme.
There is no justification for Ponzi schemes.
does not use an MLM style compensation plan and is thus entirely irrelevant.
I pay WCM777 $x, they pay me a specified return (implied guarantee) of >$x over 100 days. Where does the money come from? Other affiliates. It’s a Ponzi scheme.
I buy a product for $2000. The company pay me back $1600 in 100 days. It’s kind of product rebates. Because I still paid $400 for the software products. That’s exactly WCM777 is doing.
Also the company has new products also like anti-cancer herbal. It’s still in early launching stage.
It’s too early to say a Ponzi game.
WCM777 pay out >100% over 100 days though. That’s not a rebate, that’s a ROI.
>100% rebates? Please. Where does that >100% revenue come from?
Right here, right now I pay WCM777 $x and they pay me back >$x guaranteed over 100 days. Whatever is being planned is irrelevant.
Footnote: If you wish to continue to participate in the discussion please stop changing the alias you are commenting under.
Oh, nice. Inviting investigations by the AG’s, the SEC, AND the AMA.
Have the principals of WCM777 consulted with the proper and legal professional advisers, or are they just taking a gamble on “a pretty cool idea”, hoping it works? Because it sure sounds like the launch of a “big money grab and disappearance” in the making.
I made a comment about the confusing website, the lack of normal business logic used on that site. Can you explain it briefly to the audience, e.g. an explanation starting with “The website is organized …”?
THE FRONT PAGE
The website has a menu system, e.g. “Home”, “About”, “News”, “Events”, “Affiliates”, “Contact”.
The upper part of the front page is totally covered with a revolving picture system, a system that later can be used for marketing banners. That’s OK, but it completely dominated the screen.
The lower part of the front page is organized in a similar way, but with “menu choices” rather than pictures, in 2 different groups each with 3 choices (leading to “articles” or “galleries”).
* “News” (including “Merry Christmas”) 🙂
THE MAIN IDEA?
Please explain the idea here?
The website seems to have been put up as a training object for a website programmer, for the purpose of testing different functions from several demo scripts found in a “Programmer’s Forum” on the internet.
The only potential business function I found there was that people could log in as affiliates.
Most of the material revolved around the idea “build up a story about Xu Ming as a successful business man, by showing pictures from a few events”?
* The idea is probably that visitors will enter the website, look at the pictures and draw the conlusion that Xu Ming is a successful business man? Is that really necessary?
The other material revolved around “Siemens”, “Certificate of Incorporation” and “Merry Christmas”.
* The first two can be used as “social proofs”, e.g. showing people that the company actually is registered somewhere.
* I had trouble understanding the “Merry Christmas”? 🙂
If I have interpreted it correctly, WCM777’s PRIMARY business idea is “Let affiliates log into the system”. Is that correct?
Its SECONDARY business idea seems to be “Confuse potential enemies”. Is that correct?
The strategy seems to revolve around a “filter system”.
* let the lowest of the “low hanging fruits” pass through
* filter out anyone else, by wishing them Merry Christmas in July
OMG are the comments on the pump and dump funny! This money game is a clear money grab bucket, this one will swoop in and grab the greedy with the promise of they being ‘positioned’ first thereby profitable at the expense of the followers….
There already appears to be the same old knuckleheads in this deal, from the calls and emails I’ve received it looks like a brand new freshman class has been recruited into the college of hard knocks
Seems the Brazilian guy on Facebook used “investment” quite heavily. Yep, definitely smells like a Ponzi scheme.
There was a photo or two about a launch meeting in Brazil in Palm Resort? I thought I saw a couple familiar faces? Looks like some TelexFree folks, but then I’m not that good with faces.
I don’t know if there are former Telexfree leaders in WCM777, but I know that a French guy, who has worked in FFI and Colibri before is now on WCM777:
this is b.s. if returns like this were being handed out, there would be no need to give a recruiting bonus…people would be in line with their life savings ready to go…and word would spread faster than anyone could recruit…
the sites technical and administrative contact email addresses are free hotmail accounts…when was the last time you saw a big baller company that said contact me at hotmail.com…lol…this shit is stupid
People get daily reward points, not money. can’t be claimed as Ponzi Game.
Oh right. So nobody is earning a daily ROI based on how many points they have invested and re-invested in? Pull the other one son…
The website didn’t contain any business logic at all = “What will people be looking for when visiting our website?”. So it actually contradicts the story about Xu Ming being an experienced and successful business man.
In addition, the website seems to be a failed project that never managed to launch properly. It has randomly added new pages, often with several months between them.
My guess is that one of the TelexFree top earners from Brazil has set it up as a “Plan B”, and that WCM777 is his first attempt to launch his own program. It clearly reflects that he has very little real business experience, but that he has managed to pick up a few ideas about how to pretend he’s running a business.
And what *can* you do with those rewards points, and why would people WANT them? Hmmm? And are you calling those who say you get money liars? Perhaps you’re just skipping a step, the ability to withdraw those points from an eWallet?
I DON’T GET A GOOD FEELING ABOUT NITHER TELEXFREE OR THIS WCCM777.
THE SAD PART IS AT THE END OF ALL THESE PONZI SCHEME ARE IDUSTRY AND SOME NOT ALL INNOCENT PEOPLE STAY SCARED FOR YEARS OR EVEN LIFETIME, THATS WHERE THE FAME THAT MLM IS MANY LOSE MONEY (MLM).
Many scams fly the MLM banner, but that does NOT mean all MLMs are scams.
Just a commentto explain some reviews. I am a member and I understand and agree with some things in previous comments.
However when presented this to me it was made CLEAR that this was just in start-up phase, especially in US and many of the program, products website info, etc, would not be available right away, and no promises were made as to time frame. With any new group, this may happen.
Also the wcm777 site is different than the member website which is wcm7.com. One being for product and one services, member support etc. and also another web 1and300.net, which has more info about other monies and products. Many of the review comments were from uniformed people looking at an incomplete picture.
Yes I am wary and have been in MLM before!
There is no “get out of jail period” for the running of Ponzi schemes. You are either running one or you aren’t, regardless of what “phase” of the business you are in.
And evidently you have learned nothing. Stop making excuses for your participation in yet another blatant Ponzi points scheme.
Sounds like Ponzi due to they used the words “Investment” and purchasing of more positions.
This is going to be check by FCC soon. They sealing securities..looks good but smell to good. This is NOT Network Marketing
So the websites that pops up in search results aren’t the real websites?
My comments were about the websites I FOUND, not other websites that may exist somewhere on the internet. I found WCM777.com and a clone to it when I searched for the company in early July.
My comments were absolutely correct, the websites didn’t reflect any experienced business man’s ideas.
So the story they told me about Xu Ming being a highly successful business man shouldn’t have been a part of the story?
They started develop the website in the second half of 2012. It looks like someone has tried to start his first MLM company ever, but haven’t been able to finish his initial plans.
Exactly my conclusion too. This is a completely new group, and for some reason they must have thought the Xu Ming story would be something that would attract investors.
It’s basically a new group of people, pretending to be something (for some reasons). It will probably come as a big surprise to people when they reveal who they really are.
I can accept that idea, “WCM777 is some type of surprise party”.
(Ozedit: offtopic comments about investment banks and Bernie Madoff removed)
If WCM wanted to violate SEC laws, don’t you think it would have been a-little easier to do it with Securities markets or lending or something a-little closer to home like that cush little Mutual Fund you buy with your residuals you earned from your downlines?
The same old questions that have probed and plagued MLM co’s in regards to SEC investigations are not going to change anything. That has to do with the nature of direct sales and relational marketing and how the government is trying to deal with each and every one of them.
The marketing material is exactly what it says it is. The idea is to build-up and not tear down the economies and markets that were affected by recent hits both in the meltdown of the dollar, the collapse of housing and lending markets and every other economic crisis that is currently plaguing America and the world.
(Ozedit: offtopic remarks about banks removed)
There is a transaction cost involved and a direct product consumption with the WCM777 compensation plan and its Affiliate base. This generates significant profit on a financial statement.
The product is real and tangbile although it is not fully launched albeit the cloud product has a way to go before you can viably assess its value on a balance sheet or cash flow statement. The Social Capital platform is the only platform that really provides the MLM industry with a platform to participate in a otherwise closed finance deal.
Sure WCM and its partners stand to reap billions if the IPO launch of its clients come to pass but what is important to understand is that WCM and its partners stand to lose much before they can recoup anything back, let alone its initial investment that was stipulated on its term sheet with the development stage co. with which it chooses to represent MLM’ers too.
That’s why the person above alluded to Google’s technology. Google did not see a return for years, even after continuous injections of VC money. In this case here, the investment is not in the product or technology, it is in social capital, that means the MLM team! YOU!
Look at Google now, who can you name that is positioned better than them in their market and industry! In the case of 777, the offering is to the Affiliate rather than the VC firm and you enjoy the reward of a advanced profit-share while helping to capitalize a up-start co.
Yeah so I don’t really know what the above comment has to do with the blatant unregistered securities WCM777 are offering their affiliates, or the obvious Ponzi scheme they’ve got going (oh they have a tangible product but it’s not even launched yet? Nothing suss).
I had to remove alot of the waffle as was crapping on about Bernie Madoff and investment banks, then there was the bit about blaming “us” for the banking problems of the US.
I suggest some background reading on the SEC’s interaction with MLM companies who think they can offer affiliates ROIs paid out of new affiliate investments and promises of IPO shares.
Spoiler: It ends badly.
Securities law makes that illegal. You can’t solicit money from random people off the street to start your business except as donations, not investments. Random Joe off the street don’t know the market, don’t know the risks, etc.
Go research the laws before you come back and harp about how unfair it is and all that. Specifically, SEC disclosure laws, “accredited investor”, and all that.
Frankly, I doubt any of this is in any official presentation, and you just invented most of it. I’d love to be proven wrong though.
What happens after the 100 days ? Is your ROI
100% or minus 20% ? What happens to your initial investment?
Your initial investment is used to pay off existing investors, so it’s gone the second you deposit it with WCM777.
So, who is this Dr. Phil Ming Xu on his website he appears with the Mayor from L.A. and if you google him he seems to be a successful investent banker Mnmmm…
Let’s see how long this lasts. There are people all around me that are forking over $5000, $7,000, $10,000 into this ponzi WCM777. These are working-class people that don’t have a lot of money to begin with. Greed and a quick return is what motivates these blind people.
There is another scammer in Rowland Hts., CA that is posing as a Christian Pastor, and an investment banker. His name is Tony Ing and he is a Chinese con artist. If you ever meet him….run away! He has a blind following of cult members that give him huge amounts of money and property (real estate), based on verbal promises (no documentation).
It is pure “bull-sh*t”. Why educated people will pour money into a Chinese off-shore company, based on a cheesy website is beyond me.
There is an old saying in America, “A dumba$$ and his money are soon parted”
And also, “Documentation beats conversation”
I don’t get what the fuss is all about. Based on the review and the comments about this business, it makes one to actually want to find out what the real deal is. So, I put down $2000 to test the business.
I don’t get why some people are so against making money by calling it “greed and a quick return is what motivates these blind people”! M. Bareng so let me ask you this because you obviously have invested money with your bank to make money, now who calls it greed and you a blind man, huh?
Of course, you will deny it saying you aren’t greedy and that banks don’t make you quick money! However, what you mean to really say is that banks won’t likely make you the kind of money you wanted to begin with but will certainly loose your money, money you didn’t want to loose!
Banks won’t make you rich if you aren’t rich to begin with! Why, so to make you, a good income earner, rich only for them loose? HA!
Got be rich to become richer with the banks buddy! You offer bank gold on your plate and they offer you gold in return. Try offering them peanuts on your plate and they will rip you off! Now WCM777 offers through its business model an excellent way to create wealth!
And the best of it is that you don’t have to be rich to begin with so that you become richer! So, if I were to choose between banks and WCM777, I choose WCM777! If what they offer is true then so be it!
So to summarise:
I ignored the fact that WCM777 is a Ponzi scheme and invested $2000 anyway. To justify my participation in WCM777 I rage against banks.
Cool story bro. Still doesn’t change the fact that WCM777 is operating as a Ponzi scheme. If you’re fine with that than that’s a separate issue entirely.
You say that so, let us smile together for life’s awesome! You have a marvelous day Mister!
So what? The scammer Andy “Ad Surf Daily Ponzi” Bowdoin got a medal he claimed was awarded by then President Bush (it’s not, it’s for donating money to Republican party).
They are true believers in the “Bigger Fool Theory” = they believe there are many more “Bigger Fools” out there in the real World, eager to act exactly as they have acted themselves. And sometimes they’re right about it, there IS actually a supply of “Bigger Fools” out there.
That explains the “Merry Christmas” message in July. It will simply act as a “magnet” on all the “Bigger Fools”. Since they’re unable to see any meaning in a message like that, they will ASSUME it’s about some type of super smart business idea (rather than about a lazy programmer).
The “Bigger Fool Theory” is about exactly that, about people’s own ASSUMPTIONS and IDEAS, and how attracted people can become to them.
The “Bigger Fool Theory” is typically about getting rich, by using a “strong belief system” rather than rational ideas. A “strong belief system” will work for a period of time but will eventually fail.
It works in a different way than rational ideas, by reflecting people’s own belief system rather than the realities, e.g. the idea “If it pays it’s not a scam!”.
The theory will give lots of “affirmations” until it suddenly stops working, clearly showing them that there’s nothing wrong in the idea itself, they have just become victims of “poor management”, “evil gub’ment”, “rogue individuals among other participants”, or other factors outside their own control.
Scam is growing in Brazil…
Wow! I just found out that a close friend of mine, a Filipina nurse, just pumped over $100,000.00 into this ponzi scam. Oh…..my…..God! What makes this even more sad is the fact that she was also in Zeek Rewards (Zeekler) and apparently did not learn her lesson. Before that Gano Gold or Gano Excel coffee.
What makes this even more astonishing is that she has a college degree. You would think that this type of MLM scam would only appeal to those of the lowest common denominator.
Several red flags regarding WCM777:
1) No corporate address (where are they located?)They show an address in California: 1218 John Reed Court, City of Industry, CA 91745, but this is an industrial area. There is no “Suite” number or letter mentioned, so where at this address is WCW777 actually located?
2) These are the listed phone numbers: Office +1-626-600-3500
Fax +1-626-600-3508. I called the office number and let it ring for 5 minutes. No answer, no message, no voice mail.
Thier phones are VoIP internet phones, run by CF Communications, LLC, DBA Telekenex (horrible reviews).
3) No actual documentation that can be verified via a 3rd party.
4) A devout Christian? Really. You need to post that on your website to get people to join?
5) WCM777 does not ask for your social security or tax ID number when you sign up……ugh, how is WCM777 going to 1099 your income at the end of the year?
6) Registered in the British Virgin Islands. Ok, so now my money is leaving the country and going where.???
I find it absolutely amazing that the same people that will not pay $249.00 to join a legitimate MLM company, will willingly pay $1000, $5000, $50,000 to join a scam. How hilarious is that?
I went to whois.com to research the website and domain. This is what I found:
The main server is in Henan Province, China. Another RED FLAG!
Ladies and gentleman, and potentially stupid greedy people running to invest in MCM777, I have discovered something!! I actually drove to the WCM777 address listed on their website: 1218 John Reed Court, City of Industry, CA 91745 (I only live about 8 miles from there).
Guess what, there is nothing there! It is not a valid address. I then went to main post office for the City of Industry, and they said that is not a valid address! I called UPS, again this is not a valid address.
The address listed for WCM777 is a “ghost” address that leads nowhere but to your wallet and checkbook. Wake up people, this is another scam and you are all going to lose in the end, just like Zeek Rewards and Zeekler last year.
One more thing, all the supposed “cloud products” and “kingdom card” are not part of the compensation plan. So in other words, you don’t make a commission from the sale of products and services, you can only make commission from signing people up.
This is a classic Ponzi Scheme.
Address is valid, but there are multiple addresses registered at the SAME EXACT address. Google says it’s there, but likely a virtual office (i.e. mail drop).
M. Bareng people is not investing people are buying and service. And 100% of people is making money.
I can see from far away that you are afraid cause I’m sure you in the mlm business. so stop hating bro and join the team lol by the way the company moved to Hong kong so go look for them 9ver there.
Purchases don’t generate a >100% ROI, investments do. Fail.
Oh dear, no the “you are critical of my Ponzi scheme, you must be afraid” argument. Fail.
Mykobra, most people that join this type if MLM ponzi scam do not research the company to see if it is even real. All they see is $$$$$$ dollar signs in their eyes.
READ THIS from the website:
The address for the “Joseph Global Institute” is 150 S. Los Robles Suite 900, Pasadena, CA 91101
Also, please visit the “Joseph Global Institute” website at: josephglobalinstitute.com
The whole website is written in “Chinglish”, meaning very poor spelling and grammar. Fake website = fake Dr. Ming.
Well, the address is also the same for this guy: a Chinese electric light company and importer.
So, what the hell is that?????
Here is another address for “Joseph Global Institute”
This address according to Google Maps is a “house”. It is not a university or a collage.
So Dr. Xu Ming has a PhD from a fake collage that does not exist. Wow…..it gets better.
Dr. Xu Ming DOES NOT have a degree from Harvard. All he did was take an executive course for a few months. Did he attend Harvard for a short time? yes. Did he graduate? NO….
So far, it looks like “Dr. Xu Ming” is completely full of sh*t.
Don’t try to argue with me….I have the Internet and I an not afraid to use it 🙂
The website, josephglobalinstitute.com/ was only registered January 11th, 2013. So the website has only been up and running for seven months…….funny.
So how much did Xu Ming pay for his fake PhD from this fake university?
100% of the people WERE TOLD they’re making money. Whether they actually are remains to be seen.
Perhaps you just have too much trust in the company?
Apparently before 2013 they were on a domain called “thejoseph.org”, which is now expired domain.
I’m finding a Mr. “Richard Chai” linked to the school, as linked by the ISP
And the school itself seems to have joined a certain “US immigration investment association” as a sponsor (along with a couple other schools with Christian sound names)
Wow, this does not look suspicious at all……
Same crap, just different web address.
Ha, ha, ha! I found out where Dr. Ming got his “Harvard Degree” Ha! Ha! This is just too funny.
He took some courses from “Harvard Global Institute” Ha!
The more I dig, the more ridiculous this WCM777 becomes.
I should start a website called, “www.yalegi.org” so I can take a course and get a PhD from Yale.
Or how about “www.princetongi.org”? Anyone want a degree from Princeton? I’m selling them cheap. Oh, by the way, it’s MLM as well…….
I’m starting to have fun with this…….
Well, I “found” the Kingdom Card website. Hosted in China, but with the California address. Strange…..
And then there is this….Dr Xu Ming is now Ming Xu. His name is reversed for what reason? See below….
Ok, now it gets weird…
What makes all this so very disturbing is the fact that almost everything has a “religious” feel to it. The Bible is mentioned over and over, along with Biblical names, but the message is wealth, money, power.
Using words like “Christian” and “Christ” to make themselves millionaires and billionaires make me a bit nauseated. That seems to be the trend right now in MLM….just mention the Bible in your profile and suck in the money as fast as you can before you get shut down. For whatever reason, the easiest people to take advantage of are “Christians”.
The “US Immigration Investment Association” which uses the great seal of the United States on its website to make it look “official” is owned by no other than: Mr. Ming Xu (why is the name backwards?)
WHOIS information for usaiia.org:
Read this if anyone has time. It is quite extensive…..
If anyone finds anything else that looks strange or utterly impossible to believe, let me know.
Well and rightly exposed. Good work
Man those duplicate “university” logos are hilarious.
I think those doing their due diligence definitely owe a tip of their hat to you Mr. Bareng.
Great! Another Ponzi Scheme to plague Brazil.
Lots of people here are inviting me to this company even after so many schemes were shut down. I guess some people never learn.
Nice going, Mr. Bareng. Glad I was able to help you pin the tail on the donkey, so to speak.
As for why the name reversal, here’s the explanation. The guy’s surname is Xu (pronounced “Shu”) with first name “Ming”. So technically in Western form it should be Mr. Ming Xu. However a lot of Chinese names were written with surname first in Western media. Like that guy on trial right now? Bo Xilai? Surname is Bo.
Yes, thank you Mr. K. Chang for the head’s up. I just followed the bread crumbs to all the multiple 3-page websites that do not contain any information.
Just to let you know, I went back to the address for WCM777 at 1218 John Reed Court and I actually found the office. Not exactly what I would call a multi-million dollar business. The front door is locked, with a message that there is a side entrance.
I went to the side, and inside is made up like a church, with religious books and such, and a pulpit. Even had a donation box, though I doubt that they are a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.
I met a guy inside that said that the “Kingdom Card” division is up front, and the WCM777 is in back, inside the warehouse/ garage area.
I’m sorry but I must say I was a bit disappointed. I really expected something a lot more “glamorous”, and “ritzy”. I expected marble floors and granite walls, with fountains and an indoor Starbucks or something, like a Cafe. Instead I felt like I was inside a hastily built, cheaply funded front for a money laundering ring.
I asked the guy inside about where the money goes when someone joins WCM777, and he said Bank of America. I heard that it was “E-Wallet”. He then said that the money then goes to China. Great……just what I wanted to hear.
He also stated that Dr. Xu Ming is moving EVEYTHING back to China. So the world headquarters will be moved to China, along with everyone’s money as well. Now that WCM777 is flush with American cash, they can go purchase a glorious building in China somewhere. Stay tuned for a “new” corporate address in Communist China very soon.
I have a feeling that this so-called church may be more like a cult. We will see.
I have pictures of the muulti-million dollar WCM777 headquarters in California, so how can I post them here?
I noticed on several websites, a mention about “reclaiming the 7 mountains”. For those out there that do not know what that means, I finally found a video posted by Xu Ming. Watch the video and tell me what you think…..
A quote from Phil Ming Xu:
Also, somebody take a look at this link and tell what Xu Ming is talking about regarding “exit strategy for MCM777 members”
You can send them via the contact form (accepts attachments).
Contact button is on the top right of every page.
As provided by M. Bareng, here is a photograph of ‘the multi-million dollar world headquarters of WCM777 located in the City of Industry, California, USA’:
Simplest way in the future is upload them to imgur.com. You don’t really even need to register your own account (those pictures may be deleted as needed) if you do register you can upload into your own permanent albums.
You can interprete it from many different viewpoints, but to make any sense you will first need to identify its connection to WCM777.
* scammers often hide behind religion, without really being religious at all. Phil Ming Xu (the name he’s using on Youtube) can be a scammer hiding behind religion, or WCM777 can be scammers hiding behind true believers.
* religion often evolves into scam, or “the goals justifies the methods”. WCM777 can be one of the directions for reclaiming the mountain of business.
The video was clearly religious, and disturbing in itself. I will normally try to analyse LOGICALLY the TYPES of audience “marketing efforts” or propaganda are designed for, what TYPE of people it is trying to attract. But that video is designed for an audience outside my “field of expertise” (business in general).
It’s probably designed for a religious audience, e.g. someone already in a religious cult or someone looking for “the true meaning of life” in religion. That’s clearly outside my area.
“Scam or religion?””
That video was “the real thing”, based on a real idea and a real vision, rather than scammers hiding behind a facade of religion. I can identify logically WHY I came to that conclusion, but so far I have only focused on the main conclusion.
“Outside our scope”
We will normally try to avoid too indepth discussions about something that only is of interest for “experts” or “true believers” in something, e.g. detailed discussions about nutrition products or whatever other topic only a few people strongly feel are their own “favorite topic”.
Religion is outside our main area. A few posts about it can help clarify something and allow people to add more about it later (if they have factual information). Too many posts about that specific topic will simply derail the discussion.
We should try to keep the discussion inside a certain area, and prevent it from derailing into other areas.
What was your impression / interpretation of it?
You have mostly used logically based methods, so a video like that should normally feel “disturbing” or “unwanted”.
Some logical information can be extracted from the video itself, e.g. the logical ideas and the people behind it. Some logical information can be found by looking at the list of other videos offered by Youtube at the end screen, i.e. they all seems to be about religious videos.
* YWAM Loren Cunningham (2 videos)
* Apostle Bill Johnson, “Never Let the Devil …”
* Matthew Stevenson
* “Lance Wallnau preaches …”
* “SaharaReporters interviews Pastor …”
Try to ask more SPECIFIC questions, i.e. build up the logic behind the question first.
You did it partly, e.g. by identifying the “7 mountains” idea found on different websites and where your own research leads (to that video). But there’s still a lot of information missing for the TYPE of information you’re asking about.
“Build up the logic”?
That’s typically about WHY you’re asking and WHAT you’re asking about.
I can find some “WHY” higher up in this thread, e.g. “Wow! I just found out that a close friend of mine, a Filipina nurse, just pumped over $100,000.00 into this ponzi scam.”
The logical idea behind a WHY like that probably goes something like this: “This potential scam is targeting people I know personally. I want to find the facts in this case, and eventually try to find methods to prevent it from causing harm to people I know personally”.
I can find another WHY in the same post as the video, e.g. something like “My research of the 7 mountains idea leads to several websites, and I found this video on one of them. Can some of you post something about your IMPRESSION of the video, so I can compare it to my own?”. Or any other type of logical question.
The logical idea behind a WHY like that will normally be about that you want a second opinion on something locally within the same post.
“If you receive wrong types of answers, try to improve your own questions”.
My question, “tell me what you think”, is exactly that. Tell me what you think about the video. Good? Bad? Total rubbish? Religious hog wash? Pseudo-science?
I have absolutely no interest in quantifying or qualifying the question posed. I believe it would serve the audience best that instead of criticizing my query, simple state “your” opinions regarding the 7 mountains of whatever…..
My opinion is this: I fully believe that there is a certain part of our (meaning the world) population, that has a propensity towards believing TRBS (total religious bull-sh*t). These types of people are the ones that join, or belong to “cults:/ Be it religious cults, or cults of money. The worst being a religious cult of money, like WCM777.
The people that join WCM777 are either: 1) Greedy 2) Ignorant 3) Weak-minded 4) Spirituality weak 5) all of the above.
Mix TRBS with an opportunity to become filthy rich at the expense of someone below you, and you have the perfect WCM777 affiliate.
Since I could use some extra money, perhaps I should start an MLM based on Christianity, God, and Jesus…….oh, wait a minute! There are many already. They are called “TV Christian ministries”
Kenneth Copeland has an 18,000 square foot mansion in north Texas, and owns several Lear jets. He is the pastor of a mega-church in Texas.
Here is a link to the incredible wealth of people who fleece God’s believers: inplainsite.org/html/tele-evangelist_lifestyles.html
That being said, Dr. Phil Xu Ming is just a Chinese version of the “God loves you give me money” culture that is prevalent in America today.
I’m not criticizing, I’m telling you about how to get better answers. Ask better, more specific questions.
My opinion about the mixture of religion and scam is either that they are hypocritical or “disturbing”. Religion is a scam in itself (from some viewpoints), but that wasn’t the topic here.
It’s less “disturbing” if a Ponzi scheme hides behind fake or real religion than if religion extends to organize Ponzi schemes, e.g. as a method to finance the religion.
Normal scams will typically focus on individual motives, e.g. greed. Religion will often use “mass suggestive methods”, e.g. make people act as part of a group with higher set of values than the individuals. “It’s the cause of all evil” in some cases.
THE METHOD I USED
I looked at the video, looked at the question, it was too vague, I decided to set up one criteria about connecting the answer to WCM777, then I analysed “scam or religion?” for the video.
Then I pointed out that too detailed discussions about religion would derail the main topic WCM777. We’re analysing business models and stuff related to the companies reviewed here, e.g. ongoing legal trouble. But factual info of any type will normally be “within topic”.
Then I asked about your impression of it. Your answer mostly focused on the religious aspect of it, while I tried to analyse it within the context of WCM777. And then I picked up some logical info at the end without analysing it further.
In the next post, I pointed out the “ask better questions” idea. “Tell me what you think” can be about almost anything (within the context of the video).
I think what M_Norway meant, Mr. Bareng, is that instead of asking what people think, and hope they come to the same conclusion as you did (i.e. this is just a lot of stupid gobbledygook with religious words disguising a stupid pyramid scheme) is you should just TELL THEM then show them bits that prove your point.
Or perhaps, as M_N said, ask the “leading” questions and “lead” them to the conclusion you want them to reach.
Relatively close, but my method “ask better and more specific questions” is more precise.
I could have answered something like “That was absolutely one of the most inspiring and professionally made religious videos I ever have seen”, and still operate within the limitations of his question (“What do you think about the video?”). Since I never watch religious videos, the answer would also be true.
The short answer “It was very long” would also make sense. Comments about graphical details would also make sense, e.g. “the third mountain didn’t look like a real mountain, but other than that the graphics were quite okay”. 🙂
I did identify something important = watching religious videos as a part of analysing Ponzi schemes really feels “disturbing”. Religion will typically use “visions” and “symbolism” rather than logical descriptions, i.e. it’s directed towards a different part of the brain. That will normally feel “disturbing”.
My impression is that the video had that “disturbing” effect on you. I pointed out a similar effect. I had the feeling of watching some “mad scientist’s guide to World domination” ideas, or other types of “evil genius” ideas.
But I was probably less affected by it than you were.
The answer is “religious motivation” / “religious brain wash”. That’s the closest I’m able to identify it.
The video clearly reflected the “mad scientist” / “evil genius” idea I was talking about, the idea of World domination. It was based on a 38 year old vision about 7 mountains, where the mountains simply are symbols for some key areas of Culture (Government, Education, Media, Arts and Entertainment, Religion, Family, Business).
The vision was about “a list of things that needed to be done to reach America and the World for God”. The 7 mountains act as symbols for 7 areas that need to be reclaimed by Christianity (“to ensure World domination” added by me).
The whole idea is disturbing in itself. Religion will first of all try to protect its own interests, i.e. be the “main objective” for something. It doesn’t make things become better, it makes things become a tool for itself (for the leaders supporting it).
Phil Ming Xu repeated several “7 mountains” related quotes partly out of context with the other material. The symbol “777” was also a dominant factor on the website I criticized. My critique was about the lack of business logic on that website. “A brainwashed cult” can partly explain it.
Ok, now that we got all that cleared up…lets get back to the point. Dr. Phil Xu Ming is using religion, mixed with hype and unverifiable credentials to get people to throw money at his ponzi scam.
Did I mention that WCM777 is being moved in its entirety back to China? That should be a real BIG red flag to anyone thinking about investing large sums of money into this “business”.
I’m sorry Mr. Norway, I responded before reading your post. I agree with you on all levels.
And yes, the video did have a “disturbing” affect on me. Disturbing in the sense that there is a certain element of human society that will watch that video, and fully 100% believe it without researching ANY of the subject matter, the authors, the writers, the actual people in the video…….disturbing indeed.
Dr. Phil Xu Ming already has established a cult-like following, with the added attraction of becoming filthy rich.
After reading this post, I would like to know achievements and expertise in the MLM industry from those that are so outspoken about this so called “WCM777 Ponzi Scam”.
In order for me to “believe” your comments and observations, I need to be assured that this is not just another blog of unsuccessful, MLM haters…that would be like letting the blind guide my next steps.
So please, tell me your achievements and successes. I want to know what business opportunity is really working for you judging by your success.
Heads up, nobody cares if you “believe” anything. Verify the information yourself and go from there.
It’s not like WCM777’s compensation plan is a secret.
You may want to read my article “When experts fail”, since you are obviously a fan of “experts”…
It’s impossible to predict anything about this program. It doesn’t operate very LOGICALLY or RATIONALLY, it’s rather based on a religious belief system.
It has some type of “Exit strategy” in place, where your money will be converted to shares or something. When the recruitment dries out, you will simply get shares in the company. The money will be reinvested in other companies, and the idea is that those other companies will generate profit for the investors.
The “successful business man” Phil Ming Xu will simply release up to 300 new business ideas that all will make money, and make the investors filthy rich within 2017 when the company goes public.
RELIGION AND SELF SUGGESTION
We have discussed some religious parts of WCM777, e.g. the fact that the project seems to be based on a brain washed belief system rather than real business ideas. I made comments about “lack of business logics” right from the start, e.g. in post #11.
Sometimes it looks like a group of people using methods and ideas from a religious cult, combined with selfdev ideas and self suggestion methods.
Religious cult = all the symbols and visions, all the different “mantras”, all the visual effects, the lack of logic. You will find something in post #17 from “Dr. Phil”, “an insider”.
Self suggestion methods = all the repetition of symbols and “affirmations”, a method to trick the brain into believing something is real (you only need to help it a little).
I’m not sure I have identified it 100% correctly, but this program really is weird. It’s reflected in my first comments, e.g. when I visited the website and didn’t find any business logic.
Top half of the website was dominated by a “777” symbol (picture of nature / “harmony”). The lower half of the website had 3 + 3 articles, most of them were “affirmations” about Ming Xu being a successful business man. One of them was “Merry Christmas” (in July).
Business doesn’t work that way, but religion and self suggestion does. You will find several “religious mantras” repeated over and over again mixed in with more normal stuff, e.g. “reclaim the 7 mountains”, “build your house on a mountain” and a few others I don’t remember.
THE BUSINESS IDEA
So far the business idea have mostly been about convincing investors about Phil Ming Xu’s role as a “highly successful business man”, and the idea that cloud based services will be the next big money generator on the internet.
The ideas currently only exists inside Phil Ming Xu’s own head, where they are being repeated over and over again until they feel “real”. He has some people helping him make the ideas sound more logical and less like a belief system, e.g. to make the symbols look like rational business ideas.
We don’t operate like that. You’re asking for something you can apply to your own belief system, a “proof” for that this website isn’t simply about MLM haters wanting to harm the “good guys”. We just don’t operate like that, you will need rational ideas rather than a belief system to have any use of this website.
You’re also asking for someone who can “lead” you to success? We surely won’t lead you to anything. This is not a religious cult, the ideas are more rational than that.
If you’re looking for someone to lead you, you will surely find many of them on the internet. You will indirectly find many of them here, too. You can try almost ANY program reviewed here, and they will be filled with exactly what you’re looking for.
Each and every program can promise you success. They are filled with highly successful people eager to lead you in the right direction. You can become all you want to be (or wannabe), since it’s already a part of your belief system.
I’m not very interested in having you as a “follower”, so I won’t tell you anything about all the “huge successes” I have had in MLM during the last 25 years, or about all the secret “success formulas” I have used.
I have been in MLM for over 30 years, and I have also been involved in a cult, called The Remnant and Outcasts Church with a Chinese pathological liar for a leader, a Mr. Tony Ing, (or what ever his real name is).
I know EXACTLY what Dr. Phil Xu Ming is doing.
The mission statement for WCM777:
Just in case some of you savvy investors missed it:
June 19 2013
WCM777 is an e-commerce company legally registered in the United States of America. In order to abide by the specific rules and regulations of different countries, WCM777 employees legal council to advise said company in all of it’s activities. WCM777 is not registered in China at this point. Any agent who joins WCM777 through a foreign country or via the Internet must comply with their own local, state, national laws and proper judicial regulations. Should there be any violation of the law, the independent agent shall be fully liable for their own consequences and furthermore responsible for any taxes, fines or legal actions incurred.
Ok, now that you have read the above message, do you see where it says that YOU, the affiliate, is responsible for any taxes, FINES, or LEGAL ACTIONS incurred?
You may ask why? Well, it is a ponzi scam….also there is the fact that MLM companies are illegal in China. That is the reason why WCM777 is operating here, and not in China (as stated in the WCM Disclaimer). Please see the article below:
I have read all these post with awe and amusement. Thank you very much for the information.
I have friends who are in WCM and some getting in now. Most are not blind and realize it will not last (WCM) but are strictly out for the money. You would be shocked to hear of the amounts being made by the company and some individuals.
They do say ‘Phil’ Ming is very charismatic and great at selling his vision/snake oil. I passed at meeting him at his office. Sorry now, I would like to add more info for you.
This review is old and they hadn’t even launched yet. If Behind MLM could please review again would be great
Taken from the WCM777 website:
Sounds to me like they just admitted their current business model is a Ponzi scheme (illegal in the US). One would hope they don’t try and pull a JubiRev, combining the Ponzi points investment model with products in the hope that works, because it doesn’t.
Will update when they actually put some new information up, for now the above is all that’s available.
Latest update. It seems that no one can get access to their funds right now. Is it possible that Dr. Phil Xu Ming has enough money now to retire comfortably in Hunan Privance? Time to shut down and and pull the plug?
Greed and stupidity go so well together……
IM(very)HO it’s a mistake to assume the people behind these endless chain recruiting / ponzi schemes are looking to make the big kill and retire.
In my experience, it’s far more likely their expectations are far more modest.
IOW, a couple of hundred thousand here and a couple of hundred thousand there is a far more likely scenario and easier and cheaper to accomplish than trying to skim off multiple millions from one “opportunity”
Has anyone heard anything negative about 777? Who has lost money? I only hear about people making money.
That’s how most Ponzi schemes start out. You only hear about people losing money when they eventually collapse.
It’show they suck people like you who haven’t invested yet in.
Even today there are people who will try to convince you Ponzis like Zeek Rewards were going to continue to pay out infinity money forever, despite their books clearly showing they were on the verge of collapse.
Once the withdrawals exceed newly invested money, kaboom!
By the time you hear anybody losing money, the whole company would have gone kaput. Just look at how Zeek went… EVERYBODY who joined voluntarily just put aside their suspicion because everybody else did. It’s worse than tulip mania (go look it up) and nobody suspected a thing (except us critics) until secret service changed their doorlocks one day.
Do NOT use that sort of research to guide you. It’s NOT reliable. Legality of a company is NOT a popularity contest.
We want to hear the testimonies of people who have gone into this business and finally discovered that this company called wcm777 is a scam. Not the story of people who are outside trying to black-paint the image of the company.
The fact remain, if you have not tested something who can not judge it.
The fact remain, if you have not tested something you can not judge it.
You appear to be approaching analysis from an investor viewpoint looking to be reassured you will get your ROI, wherever the money comes from. That’s not the purpose of this review.
You do not need to invest in a Ponzi scheme to determine whether or not it’s a Ponzi scheme. You only need to analyse the business model and follow the money.
We have tested something. You don’t need to JOIN something to test it / evaluate it. You don’t need to join “Hell’s Angels” to find out what it is about. You don’t need to personally visit Africa to find out that lions potentially can be dangerous.
It’s about using your own brain from time to time. There’s probably more than enough information available from the outside. You’re influenced by something else than the need for information, and you have convinced yourself about some weird ideas.
That’s a red flag in intself. If your own ideas have become irrational, you’re probably heading in the wrong direction. You can’t expect to become what you want if you’re confused by your own flawed ideas.
You will believe me if I tell you that lions potentially can be dangerous to humans. You have relatively rational ideas in that area, i.e. you won’t ask me any questions about “Have you TESTED any lion personally?” or “Have you ever joined a flock of lions?”. I haven’t, but I don’t need to do it either. I already know people have rational ideas about lions.
When it comes to opportunities found on the internet, there’s NOTHING I can do about people’s ideas. People have ALREADY decided what they want to believe in before they start looking for information, or before they start asking questions or posting comments.
What I CAN do is to point out WHERE and WHY their own ideas sometimes are flawed, to make them stop posting more ideas like that. I can also PUSH THEM in the direction they already want to go, but I can’t push them in any opposite direction (that idea would have been rather ridiculous).
Your ideas about lions are relatively rational. They will help you in the right direction if you ever meet a lion out there in the wilderness.
Your other ideas will probably guide you in a direction you’ll need to go, into undiscovered territories reserved for the “few chosen one’s”, the ones who have IDEAS and BELIEFS they will need to discover. I’m pretty sure WCM777 can become a solution to that.
My lion example was a gift. If you strongly feel an idea is “right”, test it against something else before posting it on the internet.
Would you make the same claims if we had discussed whether or not lions can be dangerous to humans? “The fact remains, if you haven’t joined a flock of lions you can’t judge whether or not they’re dangerous to humans!”.
If you wouldn’t make any claim like that, you shouldn’t do it either. Your own brain should prevent you from doing it.
What utter ridiculous concept. Catching a cold doesn’t make you an expert on cold or confer you any ability to judge cold remedies objectively.
What you call fact is actually “anecdotal fallacy”.
Already explained to you why demand for such is a waste of time. By the time you find any the company would be collapsing or already collapsed. Do you actually bother READING what we wrote? Guess not.
Your demand for story of people who’re INSIDE trying to “white-wash” the image of the company by demanding facts that doesn’t exist is just as dumb.
Unfortunately, most peoples rational is this:
1) I know people that are in WCM777.
2) They showed me their ridiculously huge paychecks.
3) It must be a good company because people are making ridiculously huge paychecks.
4) I will join too because I want one of those ridiculously huge paychecks.
5) I don’t care if it is legal or not; I just want to make ridiculously huge paychecks.
6) I will throw rational thinking out the window because all I can see is the money.
7) I will “justify” my actions and thinking by defending this company till it explodes or implodes. I just want the money. I don’t care if I lose friends or lose my credibility, or even risk legal action or lawsuit in the future. I may even lose my a$$ in this venture, but it’s ok, because all I see is the money.
Ok, I think that just about covers most people…..
M. Bareng you have done amazing research and I completely agree with your posts. Friends are really pushing WCM777, and I thought it sounded like a Ponzi scheme and stayed away.
Their web site and written information were way too unprofessional. Then I found these comments and am happy I stayed away. Thank you for your diligence.
Ummm… sorry to burst your ignorance, your highness, but WCM777 is not a scam! Real companies such as Global Payout Inc do not partner up with scams.
Their lawyers do their homework before another company wants to sign up a deal with them! In this case, that’s exactly what Global Payout Inc has done!
Says who, you?
You don’t get legitimacy via association. The legitimacy of an MLM company is granted solely on the merit of its compensation plan and business model.
Analysis of WCM777’s business model and compensation plan reveals it to be nothing more than a Ponzi investment scheme, paying out existing affiliates with newly invested affiliate money.
“We’re legit because we have a payment processor!” Please.
“The legitimacy of an MLM company is granted solely on the merit of its compensation plan and business model.”
Thank you for proving the point. You have just contradicted yourself! That “merit” is determined on the basis of legal compliance. It is the job of the lawyers to ensure that such compliance takes place!
“Analysis of WCM777′s business model and compensation plan reveals it to be nothing more than a Ponzi investment scheme”
Are you a lawyer? I beg to differ! You probably just work in a field other than the legal field. I too could analyze this business model and conclude Ponzi just because it sounds like Ponzi to me.
“a Ponzi investment scheme, paying out existing affiliates with newly invested affiliate money.”
Can you give an example of a business that keeps generating money for its partnership base without continuous invested money from contributing partners? To my knowledge all businesses require a continuous stream of money to be long term sustainable.
In the case of WCM777, money isn’t just passed around, a product is purchased which value generates long-term equity, the financial aspect being one of it.
And if you ask me “why should one make money from a product he buys” well, you should ask the same question from an investor, why does your investment make you money from having purchased shares in that company?!
By the way, you should look that up on Yahoo Finance via Google “Global Payout Inc WCM777 payment gateway”. I included the link for Yahoo Finance in the Oct 9 posting but apparently the admin omitted the link because it would blow up his whole Ponzi case against this WCM777.
Come on, do your homework and then tell me, ok? And if the admin refuses to post this message, it proves that this blog is nothing more than just garbage.
Yahoo Finance my arse. Do not waste my time trying to quote spammy “press-releases” and try to pass them off as credible.
The fact remains, legitimacy by association is a fallacy, or garbage as you put it. Every online scam in history has had a payment processor.
Well considering Ponzi schemes are wholly illegal, what an utterly stupid argument to make. Yeah, your lawyers can tell you how legally compliant your Ponzi scheme is but don’t expect me to buy their psuedo-complaince BS.
If your business model and compensation plan reveal you to be a Ponzi, what lawyers say does not matter. This has been proven time and time again (ASD, Zeek Rewards and every other scam out there that has been shut down by US regulators).
Beg to differ all you want. The analysis of WCM777’s business model and compensaton plan is up for all to see.
It is not a question of sounding like a Ponzi scheme, either it is or it isn’t. Follow the money.
Sure, any MLM company that generates revenue via retail sales.
Do not waste my time trying to enter non-MLM companies into this discussion.
Yes, this is the pseudo-compliance mantra of all Ponzi schemes, “we have a product!”
The reality is I invest in WCM777 and I then go off and masturbate in the corner while I collect my 100 day ROI, paid out newly invested affiliate money.
Oh and they’ll also pay me to recruit new investors too, also paid out of newly invested affiliate money.
You’re really going to try and draw a comparison between Ponzi scams and legitimate investment returns?
Yeah, good luck with that chief.
Yes Oz, as you said, Yahoo Finance your arse! To let you know, The Wall Street Journal has also ran the same story. So I guess that you got more credibility than Wall Street Journal!
Why don’t you then contact Global Payout Inc and The Wall Street Journal to verify the story published about them? I guess it’s too humiliating an experience for you but you know what, what’s humiliating to you is delightful to others!
And for me to make money off of other people (which is what is actually happening out there in the way our society operates) is an absolute honor and delight! I am thrilled to be able to suck in millions and even billions off of others’ pockets into mine so to experience what real money does versus what employment check doesn’t do!
WCM777 is here to stay and to grow and I will make the most of it to my enemies’ disgust! Ciao!
No they didn’t. Some deadshit clown uploaded a spammy PR spin press release.
Do not try to pass off your marketing spam here as a credible source of information.
No doubt. It takes a certain breed to participate in Ponzi schemes knowing full well where their ROIs are coming from.
WCM777 and it’s spin doctors are fond of referring to Liu Zhis’ “Presidential Champions’ Award – gold”
What is the “Presidential Champions Award” you might ask:
Let’s ask Wikipedia, shall we ??
Shades of Andy Bowdoins’ “Congressional Medal of Honour”
Yeah, right, sure you do.
What happens when you stop dreaming and wake up ???
Do you still have “billions” or even “millions” in your pajama pockets ??
Global Payout is a C corp. They are listed in the pink sheets. Current market none. Last trade 4 cents. They obviously need clients. They are hired by WCM777 (maybe they are even partners)
Have any Wall Street Journal readers have ever heard of WCM777 or Global Payout. None. Do any of them care. No. Do any reporters or anylyst covers them. No. Global being a C corp is as much entitled to issue press releases as is Exxon Corp. or Apple, but who cares if they do and what news outlet will waste the space to print them?
None, until Global hires a PR firm who then pays a fee for the publication of the press releases. Bumpkins like you think this is news.
Don’t forget your battery operated light saber.
The Wall Street Journal ran no such story. In fact, what you call a “story” is a press release attributed to Global Payout Inc. Moreover, the Wall Street Journal includes these words at the bottom of the press release you’re calling a “story.”
BTW, the AdViewGlobal Ponzi scheme tried early on to pass off press releases published on the sites of reputable publishers as “news stories” by those publishers. For example, some of the AVG pitchmen tried to pass off a press release through a PR service as a “story” in Forbes.
At one time, an advertorial paid for by the MLM industry appeared in the Wall Street Journal and was clearly marked as paid advertising. And yet the MLM Stepfordians tried to pass off the advertorial as a story by the Wall Street Journal itself.
That’s what you’re doing — and it is absurd. It makes MLM look ridiculous. It makes WCM777 and Global Payout Inc. look even worse.
It really does, and less independent from each other.
So Ozzy and the tribe, got balls to contact The Wall Street Journal or Global Payout Inc to clarify the story instead of talking real non-sense? Thanks!
Magic MLM dust and a magic MLM helmet also would be handy in case the NESARA ship carrying the reptilian aliens arrives outside the Bilderberg grounds and a chummy lizard announces that today will be the long-awaited day in which the banking and journalism conspiracies against “revenue sharing programs”, with magical ROIs and a confluence of magical commission schemes, will be exposed and the magic MLM spigot will gush and gush in perpetuity.
Has participating in Ponzi schemes damaged the goods upstairs?
This person, “Start” seems to be in denial. What he seems to not understand is that there are good legitimate MLM companies out here, and then there is WCM777, that on it’s face, looks, acts, and smells like a PONZI scheme.
What “Start” does not see, is that all the huge paychecks are being generated by people joining and “investing” large sums of money. There is virtually NO commission from the sale of products.
If people stop joining, then the whole house of cards collapses. That is when the lawsuits start flying, families are broken up, friends are lost……perhaps Start did not read the disclaimer that states that all members of WCM777 are 100% liable for any pending litigation, fines, or legal prosecution.
So WCM777 assumes absolutely NO LIABILITY is the $hit hit the fan. All members are on their own…..no that is pretty scary stuff.
So “Start”, go join, invest your hard earned money and when the party stops, I hope you can get your money back, or at least pay back all the people you took money from. Because your friends WILL BE LOOKING for you.
PRNewswire is for press releases that nobody reads. Here’s a few more of them:
– Stupid press release of the day
– Stupid PR pitch of the day
If you’re actually read the source you’d have known that. You’re just searching for **** to patch your own (fast sinking) position.
It’s a combination of various factors:
* personification (I am taking this insult PERSONALLY!)
* sunk cost fallacy (I am invested, I *have* to defend it!)
* anecdotal fallacy (I believe my own senses more than ANY other information. I cannot possibly be scammed!)
* self-bias (I have COMPLETE confidence in my own ability to detect a scam! Don’t you *DARE* challenge my self-esteem!)
* Ikea effect (I participated, I “own” my success!)
* Spotlight effect (I insist MY facts are *more* factual than your facts!)
* Appeal to association (X is affiliated with Y, and Y can’t be dumb enough to be a victim of X like I could be!)
And probably a few more I don’t recall at the moment.
There are rumors today that WCM777 has closed its US office, after the FBI started investigating it. The closure of the the US branch seems real. The FBI ivedtigation, Im not so sure. Does anyone has more info?
I can’t confirm an FBI investigation but WCM777 has indeed shut down their US operations.
@siemens_press has quite a lot to say about WCM777 this week.
Gotta’ love twitter for getting right to the point.
Got them from website, kepler.sos.ca.gov/
Search Type: Corporation Name,
(they are all from the same location, 150 S LOS ROBLES AVE #900)
Got another one: AXM Global.
There’s also a “WCM Fund LLC”, I think.
I am also finding a “Genesis Franchising”, at that same address, which is a part of Genesis Holding Group. However, that looks far more legitimate than the 7 mountains crap.
I’m starting to wonder about those hotels, as This Genesis Holding owns “Evolution Hospitality”, which manages various hotels. Is there a link? I don’t know.
Found this ad posted by ToPacific in Chinese classifieds back in 2011: office for rent, on top of Hilton Pasadena, $100 for mailboxes, $500 for a cubicle and desk. If you’re a good business you can get investment and use the office for free.
Phone number is same as ToPacific, WCM, etc. Wonder if he’s using his own services a bit too much?
150 S. LOS ROBLES AVE., STE 900 is a suite in the HILTON OFFICE TOWER
You’ll find a large number of businesses showing the same registration address, including:
GLOBAL HOLDINGS, INC.
Director – RUDOLPH D CONTRERAS
President – XIAOHUA GAO
Director – XIAOHUA GAO
Secretary / Treasurer / director – JIN (JAMES) WU
Director – MING XU
Call me cynical but all I’m seeing is layer upon layer of black holes for funds to disappear into.
Ming (Phil) Xu claimed he will be talking to Al Gore.
Interestingly, the agenda by them: http://www.wt580.com/upLoad/news/month_1310/201310202252325408.jpg
is mismatch with the event’s agenda: http://www.svief.org/2013/english/Agenda.php
Somehow, WCM managed to sponsor the event.
They’ve inserted Ming Xu into the agenda?
Hahah, if you click “download agenda” on the Svief site you can see Xu has
photoshopped“bumped” Al Gore off the speaker list. Lol!
Honestly is this some sort of weird SEO public relations by association attempt or what? What happens when someone rocks up to this forum and Ming Xu is nowhere to be found…?
How could such an event allows a SCAM company to sponsor?
Ming Xu also claim that he sponsored Agape Hospital and put up website: http://www.agapehospital.com
After realize the address can be Google Street Viewed, they quickly pull it down.
808 E Valley Blvd, San Gabriel, CA 91776
Go take a look at Google Street View. It’s funny! Massage center!
Everything you ever wanted to know about WCM777 but were afraid to ask:
[sarcasm] They must be legit, they have their own WordPress blog [/sarcasm]
I gotta say, the “profit sharing compensation” and “bonus plans” about a third of the way down the Business Opportunity Review page http://globalwealthaccess.wordpress.com/wcm777-business-opportunity-review/ are so enticing they had me reaching for the debit card
The one I am looking at inserts him BETWEEN Al Gore and the CIO of Tesla.
He appears to have been given a ten minute slot.
I think WCM paid enough in sponsorship fees to grab a few minutes of on stage face time and Ming is the spokesman. “Welcome Chinese Americans. We are proud to sponsor….etc…and get off stage.
WCM holds itself out as a Chinese money sourced investment bank so this is not inconsistent, its just that so much of the rest is not.
Not on the Svief site, dunno what you’re looking at.
The official PDF has Gore at 9:30 to 10:30, Vijayan from 10:30 to 11 and then Wozniak. Xu isn’t anywhere on the list.
Edit: Oh wait right… bumped off should probably read “eaten into his time” or some such :).
The Chinese language site is the one I am referring to. It shows him coming on after Gore for ten minutes.
They pay a fee?
Your logic fails here:
You’re looking at the Chinese website rather than the original source.
Of course I am looking at the Chinese website. That is the one that indicates he will be speaking.
Events usually don’t do more than a cursory check for legitimacy, as long as the check cashed. Besides, Ming Xu *sounds* legitimate and may be bringing real Chinese dollars.
The official website should normally be more reliable than the Chinese website. You should check that one first before putting up any theories.
He only shows up on ONE page:
I’m seeking verification.
But that WT580 has quite a bit of PR spin. Apparently there is a certificate issued by John Chiang, state controller, and Judy Chu, both are “congratulations on buying the golf course”
What’s even more disturbing is they don’t just claim to be working with Global Payout, they claim they BOUGHT AND MERGED Global Payout
WanTong Card (Kingdom Card) USA successfully purchased/merged credit card transaction processing company.
Which can ONLY refer to Global Payout.
But even MORE hilarious is a message, source unknown, posted on WT580, that basically says “never mind what other people say about us. If we believe in God, then we are righteous.”
I checked them both, but I assess it differently than you. You assume the Chinese language website contains a forgery. I take it at face value.
The Chinese language link on the right hand side of what you call the “official” reliable website, presents IN BOLD (after translation) the following …”Xu Ming, chairman of stage presentation, the dialogue and the U.S. Vice President.”
Check it for yourself.
I can not prove that he will speak, but neither can you prove that he won’t. Either way I expect to see a picture of him in the company of Al Gore sometime in the near future.
….and you will say its photoshopped.
Slight clarification. WT580 may or may not be an official WCM website, despite flying the WCM logo.
The WT580 website’s full chinese title is “WanTong Miracle Financial Mananagement Trust Alliance” and domain’s registered to someone in China.
As explained before, WanTong is the Chinese name of MassMutual, and this may be a case of sound-alike.
What’s even MORE confusing (and potentially fraudulent) is they claimed to be WanTong Investment Bank in some slides. In others, they claim to be WanTong Investment Bank Holding Group
And of course, they are all headed by Ming Xu.
Oh, sorry, got cut off. WT580’s site though just promotes WCM777, which gives a 7 step process that roughly translates to “register, wire transfer some money to WCM777, wait for money to roll in”.
I think Wt580 is a fanboy / recruiting site. IMHO, of course.
That long series of slides in Chinese is even more interesting PR and potential evidence of fraud.
Kingdom Card, which was supposed to be a product of WCM777, is also presented as “WanTong Investment Bank” on one of the slides, but flying a 1and300 logo (orange hued instead of bronze hued) The 1and300 logo (bronze this time) made an appearance later as Gideon Business Society.
The whole slide’s title is “WanTong Investment Incubator”
Agape Hospital is mentioned.
One more bit of data: You’re not going to find much on Ming Xu, which is also name of a real big industrialist in China, owner of a soccer team and all that. (Once made it to No. 8 richest guy in China on Forbes’ list) Another “sound-alike” swindlering?
Someone tweeted at Dennys why is their named used in WCM slide as “one of our partners”.
That long series of slides at WT580 contains some sort of claim that WCM helped sell shares and riased a bunch of capital, but slides are too small to read details. As Denny’s is listed in the US, I’m going to assume this is in China?
But Denny’s has NO PLANS to franchise in China at this time.
WTF?! Somebody’s fibbing.
The problem is the official website contains a disclaimer that says agenda can be updated at any time or something to that effect. So it neither proves nor disproves the WT580 version.
However you want to play it, but his picture and a lengthy bio are included on the “official” and “reliable” event website at svief.org/2013/english/guest/xuming.html
Click on English or Chinese language links and you will find him on the left side lower along with snapshots of about 25 others who are listed as speakers.
Simply identify it correctly.
You have 2 different sources:
1. svief.org, where Phil Ming Xu is NOT listed
2. wt580.com, where Phil Ming Xu is listed as a speaker
There isn’t any logical reason for assuming that the Chinese website is more reliable and trustworthy than the original svief.org website. If you should trust only ONE of them, trust the original.
Photos won’t prove anything, not even the real ones. A Norwegian scammer (arrested in the USA for selling Justin Bieber rights to an investor) was photographed as a guest at the Royal Family in Norway (crown prince Hakon Magnus’ residence, among 20 or 30 other guests), when he operated another scam as a gründer / inventor / business man.
Some types of scammers will do almost anything to be photographed close to celebrities. Phil Ming Xu is of that type.
It can be updated on site, e.g. in case someone suddenly can’t attend the conference. But the list is updated for the agenda as it is currently known.
Phil Ming Xu is NOT listed as a speaker, neither on the website nor in the pdf.
Go Here svief.org/2013/english/Agenda.php
Click Mandarin, English or Cantonese link and look at long list of speakers their pictures and their bios.
Do I explicitly have to tell you that this is not the wt580 website but are pages directly connected to your reliable and official SVIEF.ORG website.
Don’t word me man, just get it right.
He most certainly is, except in the one place you CHOOSE to look.
What’s it called when a person ignores all evidence contrary to a preconceived notion?
The plot thickens…
I wonder if he’s going to get up and start blabbing on about the 7 mountains like he does in all his other videos, that should go down well.
(PS. I edited out your link to the agenda page for a direct one to the bio, which is linked off the Svief “speakers” page)
Copy of the bio incase it disappears
But that page is not linked by any other page, except one?
I am sorry but on my computer screen the agenda page (schedule of speakers and times) shows a link to Cantonese, Mandarin and English follow on pages which show pictures and bio of all the speakers.
Sorry, isn’t he under “speakers and guests”? I also find him under VIP guests. Does that necessarily mean he’s going to speak? For all I can tell, he’s going to have a booth in the exhibition hall or something.
Yes and that is what I was referring to. The only way I know to reconcile this is for someone to call the event organizer’s contact number and ask. The numbers are on the SVIEF website or you can e-mail them.
Out of curiousity I will do likewise.
“Official source vs unofficial source” IS normally a part of the evidence. Normal logic will require you to give different types of sources different “weight”.
I will follow “normal logical rules”, I will not only look at the material but also the TYPE of sources.
He may be a speaker in the “Afternoon Session”. That part has both “Cloud Computing” and “Investments” on the agenda:
That’s why I told about the Norwegian scammer, currently in jail in the US. He managed to fool “Innovation Norway”, the Royal Family (the Crown Prince), and different types of investors in different countries.
He played the role really well for nearly 2 years before he was exposed (an investor wanted his money back). The trick is to select an area where YOU can be accepted as the expert, where “they” don’t have more knowledge than yourself.
Some types of scammers will do what they can to look successful and get “visual proof” for it, typically photos and videos showing them among celebrities. Phil Ming Xu clearly has the same personality type as the Norwegian scammer (except for the religious part of it).
He is listed among Speakers and Guests with pic and bio in all three translations of what you insist is the “official” and reliable website. He is described as stage manager on the RT580. He is shown as a 10 minute speaker on the RT580 website’s schedule of events. WMC, the company he is presumably the CEO of is one of the listed sponsors of this Chinese American event.
There is no immutable Norway’s law that says that the schedule of speakers may not be adjusted to make room for a a short address by a Chinese speaking sponsor, which since the audience will doubtlessly contain many Chinese speaking persons is reasonably appropriate. Or Ming may speak in small room during the afternoon, or he may have a booth or he may sell Won Ton Soup in the parking lot, but he also may address the audience for a few minutes on the main stage as the RT 580 website indicates.
My money says he will.
As a matter of fact he is shown in the “Speakers” column on the left, third from the bottom. He is also shown in the “Speakers and Guests” column (both on Norway’s “official” and “only” reliable website,) so it appears he will be “officially” be speaking somewhere even if its in the parking lot.
I sent an image copy of the amended (forged?) schedule to the organizers and may hear something back.
to cindy, Irislei99, info
Dear Sir or Madam.
Can you confirm or deny that Mr Ming XU will be addressing the attendees as indicated in the image below.
Thank You, Very much.
Can anyone translate this You Tube video:
Appears to be a news report on WCM777.
International Pyramid Prwsents its Business in Columbia
A News One camera was at the release of an alleged investment system that would allow customers to multiply their money in a matter of days. Like the Pyramids of history they use the pyramid to explain how earnings accumulate as each affiliate brings in more members. They claim to be the subsidiary of a Chinese bank that has no public record.
Anyone know if having wcm7 move back to HK alters Xu Ming’s upcoming talk?
Presumably those behind WCM777 have taken stock of US laws and are no longer recruiting or signing up new members in the US. Does that mean that WCM777 has retreated back to, or is contained in Hong Kong? I don’t think so.
As the Colombian video suggests WCM777 is an investment scheme that can be promoted just about anywhere (like a franchise) and everywhere all at once (via the internet.)
If he shows at the event in Silicon Valley I wouldn’t expect him to openly promote WCM777 to a US audience. Instead I would expect him to promote Capital Markets Inc., which by appearances is an “investment bank” using China sourced funds to set up, fund and buy businesses in the US.
By appearances World Capital Markets is looking to put funds to work globally. They appear to have acquired one or two golf courses in the US.
Were Chinese-sourced funds made available by World Capital Markets Inc. used to start up and sustain the infrastructure of the abandoned WCM777? I speculate that they were.
If so, would it make sense to put the existing WMC777 organization and infrastructure to use in other countries such as Columbia where the “investment” environment might be a little more hospitable?
Could anyone witness the flow of the agenda during the event? I’m pretty sure he won’t be the keynote speaker. He would probably pick a slot where sponsor allow to talk in separate smaller room.
Being a keynote speaker will draw too much attention to public and question his business legal stand.
The RT 580 website indicates he will appear on the main stage at 9:30. Surely, as you say he will be in other rooms at other times.
99.999% of the attendees will not have heard of WMC777…. and its worth mentioning that WMC777 has by all appearances ceased to operate in the US…. so what does WMC777 even have to do with his appearance and why would he even talk about it? He is the CEO of World Capital Markets, not WMC777.
I doubt if he is a keynote speaker in the way you and I would define it, but his supporters and business partners will get a charge out of his appearance if he can get on the main stage even for a thirty seconds since “sharing a stage” with the founder of Apple and a former VP is a excellent publicity.
That by definition that would be a key moment for him, his business partners and for his RT580 community if not for anyone else.
Thanks @Hoss. This is all new to me after my mom informed me she had purchased a “unit” for me…I immediately went ahead and started investigating, and it all just seems wayyyy fishy. And repulsive, the way he’s manipulating people to invest, correlating it with some end-times apocalyptic vision.
I’m afraid my parents are already heavily invested and would truly appreciate any help I can get in order to inform them better.
Has anyone been able to confirm, outside of those pictures of certificates, that any golf course acquisitions actually took place?
I couldn’t find any evidence on the club’s website of any affiliation w/World Capital Market. It seems odd that such a huge transaction went down, and there’s not a single independent press release or business journal article (I’m not counting anything published directly by WCM).
I’m starting to doubt whether any of the business transactions are real at all.
I did find an article from local press that mentioned the gold course was acquired by World Capital Market.
I have no doubt this guy *could* have sucked millions of dollars from China (with EB-5 as bait) to buy US golf courses and whatnot. It’s just that there’s nothing in their own literature that says anything about investing in golf courses. The money allegedly is going into 1and300.
This thing is like a babushka doll… layers in layers. They’re probably going to say Wcm777 is only one of the outer layers and the core’s still intact. And 1and300 is yet another outer layer and an “investment group” run by them.
Let me guess… Chinese American? 😉
The Course at Glen Ivy is in Corona, CA., Riverside County. The County Recorder’s records are online but charge a ridiculously high price of $6 per search. I was not interested enough to start paying money to find the answer. The pro shop would know if the course was sold and who purchased it.
Here’s another article.
I’m not very familiar with WCM777 myself. I checked some details initially, and a few details more randomly, but that’s all. So I can’t add more than the other article.
From my personal viewpoint (e.g. if my parents had invested in something suspicious), I would probably have tried to “buy some time” (make them delay further investments). I would have tried to GET information from them, the factual parts of it.
I actually HAVE parents investing in something over priced, but that’s more about “collector interests” than about “suspicious investments”. The correct solution to that is simply to accept it.
There isn’t much you can DO if they already have invested money, other than make them delay further investments and try to get some overview yourself.
That seems to be a distinct possibility.
If a Chinese citizen placed his money with WCM, and WCM intended to invest in the US would that necessarily mean their payment was misused? If the great bulk of the money was earmarked or actually invested in the US might not his clients qualify for a visa and get exactly what they hoped for?
If you look at the roster of employees for WCM it looks as if there are too many employees for what the company purports to do and they all seem to be managers of one thing or another. All chiefs and no indians.
I doubt very much any employee or officer would divulge any information about ownership or business transactions over the phone. Not if they wanted to keep their job.
Interestingly, the Summerly seller (McMillin Communities) told the Press Enterprise that they couldn’t disclose the purchase price due to an agreement with World Capital. Guess no such agreement exists for Glen Ivy. I’m just wondering why the Glen Ivy people have been so quiet about it.
K Chang’s right about the layers here. Phil Ming Xu seems to be a bottomless pit of shady businesses.
I would only ask if it was sold, when and to who. That should not be top secret.
This is a typical agreement in such transactions for competitive reasons. The County Recorder transfer tax shown on the deed will often allow for an investigator to determine the price paid. The property taxes which are publicly availabe in CA are also indicative since they are based on the purchase price. Where there is a will there is a way.
I am convinced that WMC777 is a pyramid but that has been shut down in the US. As far as the rest of it goes the jury is still out with me. All the activity out of the Pasadena address is not encouraging, but then people do start small and grow into their dreams. Wait and see.
The problem here is what’s on the paperwork… It can’t be World Capital Market, a California Corporation. That was suspended. It will probably be the Delaware corp.
Wonder if the 3 gents who issued certificates of appreciation would still be happy if this was revealed?
@M_Norway: thanks. I’ve been looking at that web article too. These two are the ones that finally provided some rational skepticism to the whole thing. Especially (most of) the comments.
I’ve managed to delay my parents purchasing me the unit and actually talked to my mother about it today. She stills wants to believe, but I’ve informed her of the risks. Please, please, please keep posting information as you discover it. Much appreciated!
It could be many things. It could be a Delaware or Nevada corp or an LLC or a Trust or or dozens of other forms of ownership from any state, or it could be an overseas corporation doing business in California. The possibilities are practically endless.
The ONLY way to tell for sure if the property was sold and to whom, is to check the grantee/grantor index at the County Recorders office, then at least you will know when it was sold and the legal vesting name of the buyer. There is no other way to know with certainty. This is why we have Title Insurance Companies.
If I said Chang bought it, then you would understand that there are virtually endless permutations of Chang. Which Chang? The same holds true with World Capital Markets X of which there could be dozens
New article published now:
It’s mostly about news you already know, organized as an article. It’s primarily about Colombia.
I posted something about a Norwegian con artist. Phil Ming Xu can be compared to the Norwegian con artist, but on steroids. 🙂
CNN article and 8 minute video about the story:
What I’m doing here is to build up some additional sources to help understand the organizer Phil Ming Xu better. The Norwegian con artist shown in the video will probably reflect some similar type of personality, e.g. the attraction for being recognized as “successful”.
Being successful in reality isn’t important for him (Waleed Ahmed), the important thing is that people BELIEVE he’s successful and he can get some “VISUAL PROOFS” to show people. He’s extremely focused on “visual proofs” (even fake ones), and so is Phil Ming Xu.
Waleed Ahmed is ONE person (plus a helper). Phil Ming Xu has a whole organization.
Additional sources are good, but facts are better.
Here is a response I received from the Administrator at the Golf Course at Glen Ivy, Corona, CA
So there you have it…NOT World Market Inc.
Now the question is….What state is World Capital Market, LLC registered in and who is the Managing Member.
World Market Capital LLC is not registered in California. I have not checked any of the other 49 states. other States.
Kingdom Capital Markets is not registered in CA.
Agent is a well known “registrar”.
There are multiple listings for Kingdom Capital Market in Delaware as well. Can’t tell which one.
It’s interesting this guy is following the Tarun Trikha (TVI Express scam). NEVER engage the critics directly, but release dribbles of information through affiliates and let THEM release the info to provide plausible deniability.
Found his alleged Harvard photo, released through Facebook of a WCM affiliate, except HBS thus far has NOT authenticated it. Even if it does, it doesn’t really prove anything.
Except Tarun Trikha never engaged the religious angle.
WCM is pretty darn big in South America, where they got into some church and the church is now pushing this crap. I’ll update later.
I am not saying that it isn’t, but there is no evidence that a Delaware LLC bought Glen Ivy. Your research shows there is an Delaware LLC named World Capital Market and that only hints at a connection. It does not prove it.
In addition to which it would not be unusual for a parent company such as WMC Inc. to purchase land or property through a single asset LLC such as WMC LLC to protect the parent company from liability.
This is a dead end until the legal vesting name of the buyer is known,including which state its registered in. That is a matter public record at the County Recorder which charges for the search.
This is known as the agent for service. A Corp must have a real person to accept legal service in the state.
I suppose you would have said so but were there any members or a manager listed for this Delaware LLC?
Additional sources is about comparing cases. Waleed Ahmed and Phil Ming Xu have relatively similar types of personalities. darKnight’s parents may be able to recognize some similarities in the video.
Both of them are actually more than willing to spend other people’s money, whether it’s about buying a golf course, sponsoring SVIEF, buying a Porsche or buying clothes for $10,000, as long as it makes them look successful and gives them visual proofs for it, and helps them convince investors.
If I know that fact, I can simply start to ignore it. I don’t need to check each and every detail that pops up if I know WHY they’re doing it, e.g. if I know something isn’t very important in itself.
Phil Ming Xu is not investing in business projects for financial purposes. He’s buying “proofs” that can be used to attract money from investors. Waleed Ahmed did the same, and he switched to real proofs when his own stories met resistance. He tried to outweight potential bad publicity (doubts about the realities in his projects) by buying new and better proofs.
I can predict that we will find much more “proofs” than what we already have found. Phil Ming Xu has probably spent money on improving most of his other “proofs” (e.g. better websites, better marketing, real offices, real employees, etc.).
Wcm777, which they were claiming to be a subsidiary of WCM is based in Pasadena CA. Ming Xu goes to office there.
I have bought a unit from them for the amount of $1999. World Capital Market 9532 Olive St #205 Temple City 91780 and Manna Holding 150 S. Los Robles Ave #900 Pasadena CA 91101. Ming Xu #626 539 4177 Customer Service 626 600 3500 he comes in and out of these offices.
I am not sure if these info helps.
We already have a lot of information indicating that the main function of his businesses is to attract money from investors / other types of people (religious motivated donations, fund raising, immigrants, etc.).
A golf course isn’t very profitable as a business (some of them CAN be, but “Glen Ivy” doesn’t exactly look very profitable). The opposite idea will be that “Glen Ivy golf course” was bought because of it’s profitability as a business or as an investment.
The cloud computing idea is rather “thin” as a business idea. It may be an upcoming “next big thing on the internet”, but currently it isn’t. People hardly know what it is, but it has actually been around for several years. I don’t believe in the idea that people join WCM777 because of its cloud computing offers.
I’m simply looking at the big picture rather than the details. When we first started to check WCM777, their strategy focused heavily on marketing the idea of Phil Ming Xu being a highly successful business man, e.g. with websites loaded with “social proofs”.
But they didn’t manage to reflect that idea. WCM777.com reflected “poorly planned idea, with no real business function at all”.
I believe they simply are trying to come up with more believable “social proofs”, e.g. by improving or replacing some of the first ones and adding new ones.
The opposite idea of “big picture” will be to look at the details, and interpret them one by one.
Interesting, that’s actually registered address of 1and300, not WCM.
That’s the address provided to California Secretary of State, which is also shared by another 4-5 entities, including WCM.
Originally allocated to MetroPCS (budget wireless phone provider in the US only)
That’s the primary contact number for WCM.
Really? What would it look like if it was profitable? How do you tell the difference?
Wouldn’t the biggest proof be if the cloud services either didn’t exist or were non-functional? I would think the foundation of WCM falls apart when it turns out the cloud services aren’t a viable product. Any operating businesses (golf courses) at that point would either be a front or, at best, irrelevant to the issues at hand.
Given that the claim is that Siemens actually developed the technology, my guess is that the issue of whether or not the cloud technology exists will be answered when Siemens releases its official statement.
I saw something in all my Googling yesterday that Xu wants to introduce the Kingdom Card to golf club members. The Kingdom Card seems to be intrinsically linked with the Ponzi. How’s he gonna’ get away with that?
I suppose it would prove that WCM777 and the cloud business is a scam but that was proved when Oz analyzed the comp plan nearly six months ago.
Things have progressed, New allegations, broader in scope.
He has officially making his way to the stage. SVIEF agenda updated with his 10-minute slot.
SVIEF has dirty its event purpose by allowing scam company to go on stage.
This is what he claimed:
WCM777 cooperated with Siemens to launch a series of personal cloud service products
This is what Siemens official statement:
Official statement regarding claims made by the World Capital Market company
Time to go to the local TV stations. 🙂
There’s no way he can cover all 7 mountains in 10 minutes, let alone unite everyone by love.
The dialogue in post #173 – #180 may actually have affected the situation, and made them put Phil Ming Xu into the list as a keynote speaker.
Phil Ming Xu wasn’t listed as a keynote speaker in the official program BEFORE people asked questions about it. He wasn’t even specified as a speaker in any other parts of the agenda, but he was listed as a general speaker.
When the SVITEF organizers receive conflicting information, they will need to check it with their own list. When he’s not listed there, they will need to assume that they potentially can have made some mistakes themselves, and try to correct the situation.
The corrected list now show Phil Ming Xu as a keynote speaker. SVITEF can have made those last minute changes BECAUSE OF the requests, rather than because he actually was listed initially.
The requests for information can actually have misled SVITEF to place Phil Ming Xu as a keynote speaker.
That seems unlikely, unless they’re really disorganized. You’d think they’d simply respond to the email. Why change the agenda instead of just answering the question?
I sent SVIEF an email with the Siemens public statement. Pretty sure it won’t make a difference, but I thought they should be aware.
You should ask them to comment why does Ming Xu think people in China (where he came from) are more morrally corrupt compared to Americans, according to his blog in 2011. 😉
It’s funny you say that, because I recently came across this editorial: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/opinion/china-corrution-lijia-zhang/ which basically says just that. Still, the idea that Ming Xu was constantly falling victim to Chinese scams is laughable.
(Re: The CNN OpEd: As far as I know Xu Ming and (Phil) Ming Xu have no connection, other than Phil tried to use Xu’s identity to sucker people into thinking he was in the Forbes’ list of richest Chinese.)
I am pretty sure he never said that. It’s the gullible South Americans who can Google but can’t tell Asian faces apart that made that mistake. OTOH, I’m pretty sure this Ming Xu didn’t try to dispel that either.
Tarun Trikha of TVI Express tried something similar. He chopped up a quote from Warren Buffet to make it seem that Warren Buffet invested in TVI Express when Warren Buffet actually said he liked some MLMs.
Then the “distributors” went hog wild claiming **** like Warren Buffet owns TVI Express along with Sir Richard Branson. Did Tarun Trikha tell them to stop? Heck no. He’ll just claim “some distributors were mistaken”.
Speaking of bull**** affiliates… Vemma recently issued an edict directly from Boreyko that people must STOP saying NBA vetted and approved Vemma. And Dr. Oz does NOT endorse Vemma, and a bunch of other “thou shall not says”. (And that’s the last time Vemma will be mentioned here, go read the Vemma thread)
“Just answer the question” doesn’t make much sense if you’re an organizer. Would you have handled it in that way?
If BOTH lists show exactly the same, they can give you a straight answer.
If one of the lists show something different, they have a problem they will need to handle first.
There’s not a PR person / spin doctor on the planet who would allow that to happen.
It’s the old “just ignore it and hopefully it will go away” defense.
These days, “The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” is reserved for television.
Now Xu Ming replied in his twitter @CNPEG an hour ago saying he has JV agreement to prove his Siemens connection. Let’s see what he can show… and I’m hoping Siemens to comment at the same time.
Mayor Eric also not responding to the tweet asking him to confirm if Xu Ming was named to the 2013 Los Angeles Mayoral Inauguration Committee.
More to exploit.
A warning to Al Gore about the possibility Xu Ming will take advantage of the picture of him (possibly shaking hand) to make headlines in his WCM network to attract more people into the scam. Unfortunately, Al Gore is not replying too.
No, It is you who made the mistake and only you. You claimed that the RTF580 website falsely represented the speaker’s agenda. It did not and that is all there is to say about this.
It might, and as we understand it, it should, but unfortunately if this guy’s company is closing on golf courses, then that trumps everything. The perception that will be fostered and promoted at SVIEF is that WCM has cash to lend or invest.
That is what the attendees are going to hear, and that is what they want to hear. A few might pause to wonder where the money is coming from but self interest will rule the day.
Well it looks like somebody thinks it will be profitable even our resident golf expert disagrees.
They were organized until people started to ask questions about their official agenda, but then they made some changes to it.
People asked wrong types of questions, either too specific questions (too specific details) or too unspecific (they didn’t tell the whole story).
“As indicated in the image below” showed something different than their official agenda. The image below showed Phil Ming Xu inserted between Al Gore and the next keynote speaker.
A more general question would have been much more fair to the organizers, e.g. “I see Phil Ming Xu is listed as a speaker at the event. At which part of it will he be speaking?”. A question like that could have been answered straight from their own updated agenda, with time and other details.
If you mix in potential misleading information as part of the question, you will need to tell the WHOLE story, with all the details they need to know (WHO you are / WHY you’re asking, WHERE you have found that other information, and so on and so forth).
The yes/no question will only work if BOTH sets of information show exactly the same. If they don’t show the same information, SVITEF has a serious problem (from their own viewpoint).
FROM THEIR VIEWPOINT
WHO are you? You are probably one of the invited guests (each sponsor will receive a number of guest tickets, including some VIP tickets). The people most likely to ask questions about the agenda are the ones planning to attend the event. You’re most likely an invited guest or VIP guest
WHY are you asking? You have probably been invited to the specific keynote speech highlighted in your image. You have probably checked the official agenda, so you’re asking questions about it when you didn’t find Phil Ming Xu listed there.
SVITEF’s organizers have few other options than to try to clean up the mess. Most likely it’s someone in their own organization who have sent the incorrect agenda (they can’t assume their sponsor have faked it).
You might actually have helped Phil Ming Xu cheating them. He was NOT listed as a keynote speaker BEFORE you started to ask questions, but now he is.
Its not necessary to flap on for a half page. The only requested answer was yes or no. The answer is evidently yes.
Try to see it from SVITEF’s viewpoint, i.e. try to place yourself in the role as an organizer and try to answer the question?
The Chinese website listed DIFFERENT type of information than the official agenda. The official agenda wasn’t changed before people started to ask misleading questions.
Would you have handled it in that way as a professional organizer? YES can be handled directly, but NO will indicate a serious problem they will need to correct before they can give you an answer.
Nobody asked misleading questions.
I asked you to analyse it from THEIR viewpoint as a professional, not from your OWN. Analyse how you would HANDLE the question in case of a “no”.
If you analyse it from your own viewpoint, you will only be able to come up with exactly the same answer as before.
The question only gave one valid option for an answer. “No, Phil Ming Xu is NOT listed as a keynote speaker from 10:30 to 10:40” is not a valid answer from the organizer. It simply CANNOT be answered with a “NO” directly.
There is only one answer. You may listen to Phil speak on the Main Stage at 9:30
Just forget it. I asked you to analyse it professionally from the organizers’ viewpoint, e.g. using some type of experience to see it from another viewpoint than your own. If you don’t have any experience like that (as an organizer for an event, or similar experience), that method won’t make any sense.
In short, your question could be easily answered with “YES” if both sources listed him as a keynote speaker. If only one of them listed him as a keynote speaker, the situation would need to be HANDLED before they could give you an answer.
Did you receive any answer?
Yes I did, but not directly. The answer is on the SWIEF website. It indicates that yes, Ming Xu is scheduled to speak from 9:30 to 9:40 just as the RT580 website said he was.
That’s really all there is to it Norway. Its handled.
She didn’t reply to your email? That indicates a situation that couldn’t be answered directly, it had to be HANDLED first.
Business people will normally reply using the same method as you have used for the question (unless you have agreed on using other methods). The reply should normally have been sent the next business day.
If you receive a reply, please tell us about it?
Here’s another indicator for that they are trying to handle an unexpected situation. All other keynote speakers have been confirmed except Phil Ming Xu.
Honestly Norway, I’m afraid I’m thinking horses, not zebras. The far more likely explanation is that they’re getting 100 messages a day and not answering all of them.
You’re assuming that a) the contact people for the event also control the website; b) no master agenda exists that is easily accessible; c) they couldn’t and wouldn’t want to alert someone to possible fraud (this, by far, seems the most zebra-ish) and d) they have any assumptions about their email senders.
Here’s the thing, they probably get communications from people complaining that Al Gore is speaking. They probably have mountains of email from people making bizarre requests. You’re just making a lot of pre-suppositions that seem a little far-fetched.
The far more interesting conversation is that Phil is claiming on the Twitter that he has a document that will prove that Siemens is wrong. Given that it’s hard to substantiate most of his CV, I’m going with forgery.
Also, in his twitter feed he compares himself to Jesus, and uses the common tele-vangelist phrase: “bless me and you will be blessed”. Sigh.
Don’t hold your breath.
The answer is on the SWIEF website. It indicates that yes, Ming Xu is scheduled to speak from 9:30 to 9:40 just as the RT580 website said he was.
Of Course. You are correct. I, like you sent them the Siemen’s link along with some other very “interesting” things that have been uncovered. I do not expect any response and what they do with the information is up to them. Its their party.
Don’t overthink it.
a) The SVIEF Committee should normally have control over the website updates, directly or indirectly. Iris Lei, Executive President, SVIEF Committee has direct or indirect control. She’s also the contact person and organizer for both US and China.
She doesn’t need to ask anyone for permission to update the agenda, but she will need to inform other people in the Committee about unexpected changes.
b) = wrong type of question. It won’t produce any meaningful answer. The “master agenda” should normally be the one posted on the official SVIEF.ORG website. But they will need far more than ONE single “master agenda”.
c) Exactly WHAT did you ask them about? “Couldn’t and wouldn’t want to alert someone” will normally require you to point out a potential fraud, rather than asking a question about the speakers at the event.
d) Correct. People WILL assume something if you don’t give them enough information. That’s exactly how people are. I pointed out the MISSING information in post #237.
That’s partly correct. In the last few days before the event, they will probably receive 100 emails per day from attendees, speakers, sponsors, and so on and so forth. They will probably reply to EVERY question that need an answer (within some limits).
In business to business relations, replying to an email is the rule rather than the exception. If the question had been plain and simple, you would have received a reply the next business day.
Have you received a reply?
Wow; you’re right. I must have seen it on so many affiliate marketing videos, I did assume it was coming from Ming Xu.
did you notice that the guy near the beginning of the comments defending WCM’s alias name was Dr. Phil? Cute, but it’s prob just the actual “Dr” Phil Ming Xu trying to cover the facts about his own bullshit company. lolz
The event is coming. SVIEF has no response on that at all.
Siemens has officially denied the cooperation, but Xu Ming claimed that he has Joint Venture agreement, but don’t dare to show.
SVIEF is such an idiot event to promote scam. We should spread the words. Hopefully the attendees can be witness and expose his fake identify at the event.
WCM is a Diamond Sponsor, with all included in that (photographed with VIP guests, etc.).
He doesn’t fit in as a keynote speaker. I’ll guess he’s only temporarily listed, until they have clarified the situation. But Diamond sponsors will get a 5 minute presentation or something similar at the start of the event.
He has a 1 hour speech in one of the “workshops”, Partner Seminar: Investment Opportunity in US (Additional Pre-register Only).
They probably prefer to handle it internally. They can’t easily replace a Diamond Sponsor in the last few days, so it will probably be handled after the event.
Now your catching on.
Xu Ming, @CNPEG, just mentioned Goldpoint Holdings Inc is 100% owned by WCM.
From the record, Goldpoint established on April 25, 2012, by ZHI LIU, which is the CEO in WCM as you can see from the top of this page.
He claimed that the agreement is between Goldpoint and Siemens Ltd., China.
Let’s see what Siemens say about it.
Which is NOT between WCM777 and Siemens IT Services, as promised in the news report.
He basically admit to at the minimum, “fudging”.
Not to mention the piece of paper doesn’t say anything about “agreement”. It’s just two names and one stamp. No date, no wording. NOTHING.
Goldpoint has the SAME address as Vantone International, that scam in China where Zhi Liu was the US side of.
If you want to inform Siemens or SVIEF about something, focus on the big picture rather than the details. And let them handle the situation themselves.
Siemens have already handled the situation, by identifying clearly that the subsidiary was sold already in 2011, the subsidiary that was used to indicate some type of partnership between Siemens and WCM.
If Goldpoint has an agreement with Siemens, it’s probably a normal business deal.
The big picture was about WCM777 using Siemens to add credibility to its own investment model. Siemens have already handled what they CAN handle there, i.e. you can’t expect them to check each and every subsidiary of WCM, CNPEG or any other known or unknown investment company owned by Ming Xu or associates.
If you communicate “details first”, only the few “informed people” sharing similar ideas will understand you and identify it correctly.
Siemens HAVE checked their own part of it, i.e. whether or not they have any partnership with WCM or WCM777. They have released the correct information, and they have also clarified some details.
“The big picture” isn’t about the details we currently see right in front of our own eyes, but about how the other party see the situation as a whole.
WCM and WCM777 used Siemens name and brand in a misleading way, indicating a “partnership”, to attract money from investors. But the information about Goldpoint’s agreement is simply a photo showing a small part of a contract, used to indicate an agreement between Goldpoint and Siemens China. It must first be used in a misleading way before they can do anything about it.
“The big picture” in that post was the conclusion, not the arguments leading up to that conclusion.
The conclusion was that they can’t easily replace a Diamond Sponsor in the last few days before the event.
The arguments have probably been published earlier in this thread, starting from somewhere around post #150.
The thread is about WCM777. One of the current topics have been about SVIEF 2013 (WCM’s role as a sponsor, Phil Ming Xu’s role as a speaker). The conclusion in that post has to be identified within that context.
SVIEF can’t easily make any major last minute changes to the agenda, so they won’t do it either. They don’t have any reasons for doing it either, i.e. other people’s suspicions about something isn’t enough to make any decisions.
I retract my previous statement. Your “conclusion” is so silly it hurts.
“Yeah so WCM777 didn’t have any agreement with Siemens and we got caught out, so now we’re taking our BS down.”
Meanwhile the WCM777 website has been down for “Website Upgrade…” for over 24 hrs.
That communication method didn’t make much sense. You’re too much focused on your own feelings, you’re communicating them rather than the topic itself.
I identified the “big picture” in the comment = in which context it had to be interpreted and what the point was about.
SVIEF can’t easily make major “last minute changes” to the current agenda. Do you believe they can do that, e.g. easily replace one sponsor with a new one?
You’re wasting space.
The controversial part isn’t about whether or not they have any agreements with Siemens, but about how it was presented and for which purpose.
WCM777 was trying to sell an investment and recruitment based income opportunity, poorly disguised as MLM with cloud computing as the main product, where Siemens was used as the second most significant part used to show “credibility” (Phil Ming Xu himself was the most significant part, Siemens was the second).
The issue wasn’t about AN agreement, but about THAT agreement they pretended to have, a type of “partnership agreement”. “We have AN agreement” is simply a poor defense strategy.
Siemens have handled the PUBLIC situation correctly. They have publicly denied that type of agreement or any similar type of agreement. How they will handle it internally or how they will handle the other party will be up to themselves.
Would anyone be there to witness his “on stage moment”? I’m interested to see how he is going to promote his ponzi scheme!
Bullshit statement from a scam company!
I doubt he even mentions his association with WCM777 and his short keynote address should play to the theme of the vast possibiities of joining Chinese technical expertise and manufacturing with Silicon Valley innovation.(not exactly anything new, but regardless Ming sees himself as a visionary of sorts)
The venture capitalists will be there looking to invest. Entrepreneurs will be looking for financing and Ming will be there trying to get WCM inc.(or at least himself) a piece of the action.
He’s going to mumble something about how great an investment opportunity the US is going to be for Chinese investors. He’s not going to mention WCM777 or his own EB-5 sales.
And then you can look forward to a few more new logos where he claims to have “advised” another dozen ‘strategic partners’.
Does Al Gore have a logo….or just a bobble head?
The result photos of the SVIEF 2013 conference didn’t exactly impress me.
Phil Ming Xu got exactly what he was promised and paid for as a Diamond Sponsor …
1 photo with him and Al Gore (45th Vice President)
1 photo with him and Steve Wozniak (Apple founder)
1 photo with him and Jay Vijayan (Tesla Motors CIO)
1 photo showing him as a speaker in a relatively small conference room (4571 sq. ft / 453 square meters). “Relatively sall” is compared to the main stage Exhibit Hall C (20,000+ sq.ft / 2000 square meters).
A couple of other photos, e.g. the sponsor banner wall.
Its too bad they were not able to get a decent photograph of him giving his keynote address (such a big room and all)
Just another fine example of how money talks, and now with photos with Woz and Gore, there will be a whole new market of people to exploit (every Apple fan in the world).
But hey, they were all paid a hefty fee just to come there and talk, so I’m pretty sure they would have posed for photos with Chairman Mao as long as the check cleared.
That’s because it’s NOT a keynote speech, as it’s NOT delivered in the main hall.
When Mavrodi of the MMM Russian pyramid can get himself elected to the Dumas (Russian lower house of Congress) appearances mean nothing.
Oh, and let’s not forget China…
With all due respect, the picture, as shown neither proves or disproves whether he spoke in the Main Hall.
The picture neither proves or disproves
Even the itinerary on WT580 says it’s in the VIP room, does it not?
But it’s not important. just wrote a blogpost on how con man will get their way to pose with anybody to further their scam.
Any body heard of the case of “Bobby Thompson”, who actually got to shake hands with GW Bush, Boehner, and possibly McCain?
Or the pork barrel queen of Philippines, who got her daughter posing with President of Philippines as well as Justin Bieber?
Or David Murcia Guzman, the Colombia Ponzi king who got the Panamanian vice president to pose in his office?
Pictures prove nothing.
The photo is from the second floor conference room, if I have interpreted the room plans correctly.
The Main Stage was in Exhibition Hall C, and was probably covered by hundreds of photos. If he held a keynote speech there, the photos will probably pop up within few days.
Exactly. It neither proves nor disproves anything, it only adds something to the confusion.
Phil Ming Xu wasn’t mentioned as a keynote speaker either, e.g. by one of the reporters covering Al Gore’s speech.
It does, and if you want to take that as gospel it also says that he would deliver a ten minute keynote address on the Main Stage as well.
Does it mean that, he didn’t actually go on stage for that 10-minute speech, but instead the breakout session?
I was tempted to post this picture in response to his “meeting with Al Gore” picture…
I want to know if he actually told Al Gore that building “a global community of love is the solution for the sustainability of humanity” because that is my new favorite phrase.
“A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.” Proverbs 19:9
We can look at other photos from Exhibition Hall C and compare them to Ming Xu’s photo(s).
Congresswoman Jackie Speier has 5 photos posted on Facebook.
People should normally have remembered him if he had delivered a memorable keynote speech immediately after Al Gore, before Tesla’s CIO Jay Vijayan and Apple’s Steve Wozniak, a 10 minute speech about reclaiming the 7 mountains and building a city on the top of a mountain. People should normally have remembered that.
Nice of you to provide the link but there are FIVE pictures on the Congresswoman’s Facebook page, one of which shows without a doubt that she is speaking from the same stage, from the same lectern and using the same microphone as was Ming Xu.
You may note that the same chair and microphone stand are visible behind both she and Ming Xu Same dark curtains. Same light projection to the left, people seated and visible in chairs to the back etc etc. The pictures were even taken from approximately the same angle and height, though from different distances.
Ming definitely spoke from the same lectern as Congresswoman Speier who herself was scheduled to speak on the MAIN stage just as were Congresswomen Judy Chu, Chinese deputy consul general Gang Bi, director of California governor’s office Kish Rajan, Tesla Motors CIO Jay Vijayan, and Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak.
Case closed. Ming spoke on the Main Stage just as he said he would. The pictures prove it.
Phil Ming Xu wasn’t mentioned in direct Twitter updates from the event either, but neither was Tesla’s CIO Jay Vijayan.
Reverse chronological order = newest first:
The “SVIEF 2013” Twitter account.
And you assume they only have ONE chair and microphone stand, and that other conference rooms will have completely different types of curtains? 🙂
The conclusion may be correct, but the logic is flawed. You must back it up with pictures from the other conference room showing completely different solutions during his speech there.
Based on the pictures you provided Ming and the Congresswomen were speaking in the same room. You can decide for yourself what room they were in, however the two pictures show the:
Same chair position
Same microphone position
Same large circular clothed tables
Same projection on curtains
Same location of seated persons (behind the stage)
Is it the Main Hall?
-Tall Stage light tower (visible in Ming picture)
-Large Room Video screen (visible in Ming picture)
-These two items are consistent with the Main Stage, the Keynote speakers and a large audience, not a Second floor Meeting Room.
Which photo(s) are you looking at? They are numbered 1 to 5.
1: Jackie Speier and Al Gore
2: Jackie Speier’s speech
3: Al Gore’s speech
4: Steve Wozniak at the table
5: The audience (tables, chairs, the ceiling, etc.)
The Phil Ming Xu photo is simply of too low quality to see anything clearly. You have probably compared the picture to itself to be able to come up with a conclusion.
I found a couple of other photos from Al Gore’s speech here:
Speier at the podium (the same one Ming is shown to be standing behind in his picture)
This is nonsense. What kind of fool compares a picture to itself. You have to look closely and compare many aspects of the two pictures. There are lots of details that are viewable. If you are going to close your eyes to it then of course that is your business. You may want to be willfully blind or maybe its something else, but its there.
Yes. You can see very clearly on the RIGHT side of the photo the “Big Screen” onto which Gore’s face (and also Ming’s were projected.) This confirms in yet another way that Ming was on the Main Stage.
If you can not visualize this or conceive how the various pictures blend into the whole then of course none of this will make sense to you.
You need to compensate for lighting, distance and angle effects.
Look at what they are speaking into. Its the same microphone, in fact it is the one that the empty microphone stand held before they picked it up.
Its the same chair and its sitting in the exact same place in both pictures. Again adjust for perspective and use a photoeditor to enlarge the image if you need to.
This should have said microphone STAND position. In each picture the microphone is being used and the empty stand is next to the chair behind and beside them.
In any event the big screen, stage left, displaying first the image of Gore and then of Ming should remove all doubt. They are speaking in the same room, and so was Speier. They are all on the Main Stage.
Any further misgivings should be quieted by noting that same lighting tower and Big Video Screen are seen in both the Ming and Gore photographs.
In house services:
Edlen Electrical Exhibition Services – Electrical Services
PSAV Presentation Services – Audio/Visual Services
Smart City Networks – Event Technology
Spot Focus – Dynamic Advertising Media
The only thing that potentially can be used to identify a specific room is the ceiling, or the SIZE of the room if a photo clearly show the size.
Any equipment you see can’t be used to identify anything. The same goes for any temporary installations, e.g. the light tower and the projector screens, or the podium. The SIZE of the projector screen can tell something about the size of the room.
Oh, I see. Edlen Electical set up a duplicate room on the second floor of the Convention Center especially for Ming so that he could appear to be speaking on the Main Stage. That’s pretty wild. Do you actually believe that?
Most convention rooms have identical layouts any way.
I can’t see how you came up with that idea? I showed a few of the different in house service providers to help you separate between “room” and various “temporary solutions” (like furniture, lights, curtains, podium, projector screens, and so on and so forth).
The CEILING is a part of the room itself, and can be used to identify which room. All the other parts you mentioned are “temporary solutions”, standardized solutions that can be sold as different “packages” (e.g. defined by the size of the room, type of event, other methods).
Here’s some photos of different “temporary solutions”:
Have you even looked at the floorplan of the Santa Clara Convention Center. If you had you could not possibly make such a preposterous statement.
The place is able to be reconfigured, so he is correct. Ever been there? I have on multiple occasions and the place is able to have the same layout on multiple floors.
I don’t think it’s worth questioning if Ming was there or not or if he spoke or not. He has the fuzzy pictures the company needs for it’s credibility campaign. For all we know, they may have had a puppet show going on the same or 2nd floor. Doesn’t really matter at this point.
How different can a convention stage be?
Stage in front
Podium on stage
Some screen behind stage
some cloth backdrop beside the screen on either side
VIP tables up front
Behind which are the regular seats
It ain’t my first time in a convention center. They ALL LOOK ALIKE because they ARE all alike except in size and equipment available.
I’ve been to keynotes AND side presentations. I’ve been to Oracle OpenWorld and various other professional presentations in Santa Clara Convention Center AND Moscone Center and other convention centers up and down the SF peninsula.
Not that proving he spoke on main stage or not adds or subtracts to a scammer’s credibility. “Bobby Thompson” got on newspapers, even shook hands with GW Bush and various Republican big wigs due to his “US Navy Veterans Association”, but he’s a crook.
SVIEF 2013 WCM Ming Xu’s speech:
what a crock of crap! Let’s all unite! Send me $2800 and you’ll achieve prosperity and the world will be at peace. What rousing applause at the end…NOT! People were like…WTF was he talking about?
He wasn’t there to talk about his investment opportunity, he was there to get his picture taken with people to help perpetuate his scam. (At least thats what I think)
Holy shit, the guy actually got up and delivered his Ponzi speech.
Hats off to the balls required.
Kingdom Card: Credit backed by faith, love, trust and puppies!! It’s not currency, but it will give you eternal life. Also, every time you use it, an angel gets its wings.
Seriously, though, what’s this dung about the Kingdom Card “incubating companies”? Most of the companies on that list, that he’s incubating with his love-credit, are his, but eBay caught my eye.
Can Harvard make a claim against a fake institution calling itself Harvard? Are there any laws about misleading educational institution names?
Yeah, I thought that at first, but if you heard that, knowing nothing at all about WCM or Ming Xu, would you have a clue what he was talking about? Would any of that make sense?
Oh no doubt most if not all of the people there had no idea what he was talking about, but still – to actually get up there and deliver the speech with a straight face… I’m speechless.
BEHINMLM 0 – 1 MING XU
yeah… he really got balls. some audiences might start looking for information about his WCM company.
the more we spread the words, the higher chance he will get caught. (e.g. Siemens’ official statement)
dun think the world is stupid!!! the scam will collapse eventually!!!
True. I did think that he would do something banal about World Capital Market and lending, but, nope, he went the full crazy.
I’m still not sure if he’s a true believer, but he’s certainly got no qualms about sounding like a cult leader in public.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
He who laughs last, laughs longest.
Pride comes before a fall.
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
Do not cross the bridge till you come to it
His scam engine gonna run full speed now!!!
Self delution combined with or initiated by a lot of other factors. He used the last few days before the event to cite rather random bible quotes.
People are able to follow him through the first parts when he talks about “the first and second internet revolution”, but from there he starts to get vague and blurry, almost like he’s talking “on auto pilot” and have lost contact with his own body. The speech have obviously been prepared inside his own mind rather than on paper.
“First and second internet revolution” is actually a very good start. He illustrated them with well known examples people are familiar with, e.g. Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Twitter.
He also combined the idea with other ideas, e.g. that the revolutions led to increased productivity and reduced costs = more prosperity. But from there it went down hill or right out into the wilderness.
Please point out YOUR idea of where he scored the point?
I have identified the first part of his speech to be rational, the rest of it to be rather irrational. I have compared his goal to this Youtube video “unbelievable own goal assisted by the wind”, or to “Bjarte Flem” (a 1988 keeper blooper).
They could get an injunction, but it appears that won’t be necessary. See video at 8:58 showing a rebrand to JOSEPH Global Institute.
He said he would speak on the Main Stage for ten minutes and that is exactly what he did. In this instance at least it gives him more credibility than you. Point for Ming.
I think Joseph Global Institute has been around for awhile. The “Harvard” website is still up too.
Agape Hospital as advertised in SVIEF is actually a massage center. Check post #145.
That’s why I linked to the Youtube video. The keeper clearly scored a point in that video. “He said he would kick the ball and he did kick the ball”.
People will normally have some INTENTIONS with what they’re doing. Ming’s intention with that speech was to “ignite a spark” of some type. I don’t think that “spark” was about whether or not he would speak?
If his intention was to prove to himself that he actually was able to hold a 10 minute speech, he has clearly scored a goal “somewhere”. If his intention was to confuse the enemy, he has succeeded in that part too.
If his intention was to get photos and other “visual proofs”, he has paid for them rather than scored them.
If his intention was to show the world how skilled keynote speaker he is, he has failed in most parts of the speech. If his intention was to promote his own companies to the audience there, I don’t think it worked very well (but I haven’t seen his other performance either). The message in the speech was far too vague and “blurry” for a general audience.
His intention was to get more credibility than me ??? 🙂
You are right and he also included the Harvard Global Institute in another graphic he used, entitled:
Which surprisingly included Ebay. That must have raised some eyebrows in the audience if nothing else did.
Don’t confuse intention with results.
I didn’t. I clearly specified intentions = the types of ideas we have BEFORE we do anything.
A speech can be analysed logically for intentions, e.g. whether the intention is to INFORM, EDUCATE or ENTERTAIN people or a combination of any one of them, or if the intention is to move people to make decisions and do something.
Phil Ming Xu’s speech started quite okay, by identifying early what the speech would be about (something on behalf of the humanity). “On behalf of the humanity” entertained me, but I don’t think it had the same effect on the audience there. But the IDEA itself is okay = “tell people what you intend to say, then say it”.
“First and second internet revolution” made some sense, if the intention was to “warm up the audience” and “build a bridge from known ideas commonly shared by the audience, over to the ideas you like to introduce yourself”. That part actually worked quite well.
“The third internet revolution” started as an understandable idea when it first was introduced. People COULD see a connection between the initial ideas and that idea. But the logical arguments needed to back up that idea were vague and “blurry”. He simply didn’t deliver what he indirectly promised to deliver.
It can be compared to Rippln or Wazzub. They both looked promising right from the start, but they didn’t deliver what they intended to do.
People can test the speech on themselves, e.g. does the idea of building the third internet revolution on trust and love make any sense? Is it an idea you feel comfortable with (e.g. if you should repeat the idea to an audience)?
Will anyone here make his ideas become their own, e.g. in posting statements like “I believe the third internet revolution will need to be based on trust and love, on network marketing and on an internal non monetary transactions inside a community”.
Apparently Ming Xu wants to start the third revolution all by himself, as most of the companies funded by WCM are his own.
I noticed that. What is the third revolution? Fraud? Procreation? Double rainbows for all?
Siemens updated their official statement and claimed his JV agreement was a letter of intent.
I’m sure they can’t wait to sign the agreement with WCM777 after Ming Xu’s plastering of a fake agreement all over the internet…
And his claim that they had actually developed a cloud product together — which some affiliates go so far as to say they are using on a regular basis.
Revisit the news:
The letter of intent signed on September 27, 2013. Nearly a year later? (This is only a letter of intent, not Joint-Venture (JV) agreement!)
The company was sold in 2011? How to JV with WCM a year later in 2012?
Due to the closure, Mr. Wang Haoming, http://www.linkedin.com/pub/haoming-wang/18/a80/832, founded Beijing top cloud innovation Co. Ltd.(top1cloud).
Goldpoint is WCM subsidiary, NOT Siemens’ agent!
Some people felt an need to embellish their stories. As the game of “telephone” proves, tales got taller as they got retold.
Doesn’t matter. As long as they claim to be “leading” it.
Tesla CFO states that his picture was used without his permission.
Actually, the revelation brings up an very interesting question… Is that “letter of intent” even real?
If this Wang guy was “Director” (read: supervisor) in Siemens IT before it got sold (and he got laid off) with fiscal responsibilities, and authority to sign stuff, he may have one of those company stamps, which are used in addition to signatures in China.
Here’s a likely scenario: Ming Xu originally only intended to publicize that the cloud stuff only uses technology derived from those developed at Siemens by former Siemens guy. However, apparently that didn’t sell well, or it got “telephone” morphed into “WCM777 uses Siemens tech” and it got stuck.
We’ve found before that Ming Xu embellishes whatever he got involved with. He had a friend in China Galaxy Investments (in that Olympic fraud story) and voila, China Galaxy Investments appeared on his list of “700+ strategic allies”. This is another one such embellishment.
Then the story got away from him, when everybody else (presumably, the South American reps) started repeating it, and made up slides and whatnot. And he had to make up stuff to “explain” why he said so, esp. when his own face is on the line as he made his own video stating “relation with Siemens is real and solid”.
Now he had to come up with something to “prove” the relations, and there goes the letter. It may be “real”, in the sense that it’s in Siemen’s files, but I doubt any one at Siemens actually had a chance to study this intent. it may have been “backfiled” through a friend.
Actually, I think Ming Xu and this Wang guy were schoolmates.
Ming Xu’s LinkedIn says he attended Beijing International Studies University
I suspect this is the same school as UIBE, or University of International Business And Economics, which Wang attended.
Different year, but they may have connected through alumni associations or other business contacts.
He’s going to ask them to remove because they are a “good and responsible company”.
Btw – I think he is actually the CIO.
Just got this today from Vons/Safeway:
Guess they aren’t associated with Vons/Safeway either.
Good work guys in your attempt to crack down these criminals! Can’t believe they are still walking free taking peoples money everyday. When will they get put in jail?
From the Kingdom Card website:
Could this be the beginning of the end?
Like all pyramid and ponzi schemes, WCM “began” to “end” the day it paid out its’ first payment.
Experienced observers of fake MLM “get-rich-quick” scene would classify this excuse for non payment as being yet another pointer to what appears to be the rapidly approaching WCM777 collapse
Does anybody REALLY think any money laundering laws restrict international payments to $2500 a day ??
That sort of obvious B/S is really playing to the naivete of WCM investors.
“Yo yo yo, money laundering’s ok – just keep it down to $2500 a day per transaction.”
But DR MING XU is a christian! He wouldn’t lie about anything. He’s obviously a more savvy business man than any of the people here (He went to Harvard after all) and wants to be certain at all times that WCM777 is on the up and up.
I am most certain he had to implement this after he and AL GORE had their meeting. I’m thinking Al asked him to do this to prevent Al-Qaeda from being able to exploit this excellent opportunity to be able to raise unlimited funds for themselves. Al probably didn’t want them to know that, so he asked Dr Ming Xu to explain it this way.
I’m sure the good Dr will show us the Joint Security agreement he signed with Al setting this ball into motion.
The hell does Xu need to worry about Al-qaeda for? Haven’t you seen his big ass god sword?? It’s damn near taller than he is…
Xu Ming has removed Siemens from WCM777 website.
Guilty as charged!!! LOL
I have a friend who “invest” a big chunk in this WCM777 and keep telling me to get in while it is still hot. For he knows this is a “hit and run” game. Should I get in ? Any thought?
Say, if I hit and run with a loot, would uncle Sam come after me?
I think this is a game of “musical chairs”, and you’ll be left without a chair.
He has the disciples and the prophets as bullet sponges. They’ll protect him (according to him)
You’re thinking Zeek’s hamburger analogy?
You’re thinking Zeek’s hamburger analogy?
Not familiar with Zeek. I was just thinking the $2500 limit might be an early sign of the eventual withdrawal freeze.
I have a friend who “invest” a big chunk in this WCM777 and keep telling me to get in while it is still hot. For he knows this is a “hit and run” game. Should I get in ? Any thought?
Say, if I hit and run with a loot, would uncle Sam come after me?
You should go right in. Invest a lot “while it’s hot”. It’s the evil souls like you that I’d like to see getting burned rather than the innocent people getting into it WITHOUT knowing it’s a scam.
Has anyone contacted Walnut city councilman Mary Su, whose “endorsement” was used by WCM777?
There are lots of thoughts. Scroll up and read.
And there it is. It’s a Ponzi scheme. Uncle Sam shouldn’t be your first concern.
Patrick Pretty is reporting that the State of Massachusetts has halted WCM777 in Mass.
Read the full report on Patrick Pretty.com http://www.patrickpretty.com/2013/11/15/urgent-bulletin-moving-massachusetts-halts-wcm777-says-it-was-selling-unregistered-securities-and-targeting-brazilian-community/
Thank you littleroundman for sharing the breaking news. As I said, this is the beginning of an end, which we are watching in slow motion.
I have a friend who “invest” a big chunk in this WCM777 and keep telling me to get in while it is still hot. For he knows this is a “hit and run” game. Should I get in ? Any thought?
Say, if I hit and run with a loot, would uncle Sam come after me?
Jose, sorry for being rude in my previous response. Here’s my cool response: it comes down to what you believe and guess what: COURAGE. I believe I should do the right thing and not partake in any evil schemes.
I have the courage to not join WCM777 knowing I may very well double my money in 100 days and cash out before the scheme collapse. I have the courage to do the right thing and believe I will be given godly opportunities elsewhere and prosper.
Note: godly opportunity does not equal an opportunity advertised by someone claiming he is a devout christian. In fact, I can say Ming Xu is not a true christian.
WCM777 held their opening ceremony in Walnut. Those politicians generally don’t do background checks much, they just want their money (not bribes… contributions to local economy!)
Hopefully California will follow.
The more reason any and all victims should write to Kamala Harris, CA AG, now. I doubt she’s aware of what other states are doing, but her job’s to protect Californians.
Good advice. Unfortunately the California people still seem to be enjoying their honeymoon.
Colombian Goverment orders to stop all operations of WCM777 and to freeze the assets of all the people promoting it in Colombia.
Dr. Ming will explain, but it will probably be from China 😉
He’s still posting crap on Twitter though.
Sometimes bull**** like that just *have* to be trolled. 😉
I read a lot of comments and I will give you my relationship with wcm777. I joined about 3 months ago paid the 2000, I have also borrowed 3400 from a friend who was already making 5800 monthly from wcm777 I was able to pay back the 3400.00 in a 7 week period from money earned through wcm777.
I now own 3 units and have also generated another 1000 in which I will re purchase the 3 units at the middle of dec. I will also have the 2000 per unit earned 1200 I will still generate from earnings (cash) and the 1600.00 in the reserve for each unit……
I will be withdrawing my first 2000 in jan, wcm777 has been working well money transferred to the kingdom card and then to the bank acct has been working well for 2 people I know personally………….IT IS WORKING WELL
So you invested and borrowed real money to invest, and “paid back” your lender with monopoly Ponzi money. To date you haven’t actually made anything other than numbers on a screen.
And it will continue to work well as long as people like yourself invest and borrow to invest in it. That’s how Ponzi schemes work.
I have red a lot of comments, it seems that all these investments are just numbers. has any body got his money back?. with real money on their hands no just numbers
I already got 600 back in my hands, but what I like the most is the nice working cloud system, few weeks back I saw some glitches but now is working pretty smooth, and the music APP has a wide variety, although many of the songs are chinese. To the moment no need to invite anyone to this “pyramid”.
Fact of the matter is, nobody is investing thousands into a cloud system.
You invested on the promise of Ponzi returns, nothing more nothing less.
I am impressed. How much has the $600 cost you.
Be honest now.
If there is a “cloud system”, it’s certainly not new technology, and it most definitely was not created by WCM. My guess is that if you’re seeing an actual site where someone inexplicably uploaded Chinese songs, it’s some knock-off placeholder for WCM to pretend there’s a product.
I have invested $10.000 in 5 units in Mid September. I have already received back over $8000 cash in hands, by January, I’ll have my investment back and at least 4 units paid for.
I haven’t seen any one complaining that has lost money. Only outsiders that are afraid to risk. It’s what I always say, if you’re are afraid risks. Don’t get in, keep on your comfort zone watching others succeed.
Well I paid 2000 dlls for a unit, and I got 600 dlls in return so far, may be this whatever closes tomorrow like any other model of bussines (or scam).
I am just saying, in an attempt to aport something to the forum, that some of the apps work just fine, same for the no new cloud tech (cloud powered is the flagship campaign of the new xbox one, if you know what I mean).
Some people pay “to much” for stay the night in one place.
That’s because a Ponzi scheme continues to pay out until the new investors stop investing, duh.
At that point people like you come on here and complain about how “nobody saw this coming” and why didn’t the authorities do more.
I like oranges.
You’re still only investing on the promise of Ponzi returns, cloud services are neither here or there.
I’ll be the first one to come here saying it’s a scam, IF I see anything happening to me or anyone else I know. But until then, I’ll will keep making money while people keep whining…
For those thinking about joining WCM777… I have one thing to say, I was very skeptical at the beginning but now I’m very glad I did… My brother in law, has already got all his investment back + 11K in revenue in less than 4 months.
The company is less than one year old, it’s not likely that anything bad will happen in at least 1-2 years, so there is still time to make money, that is IF anything go south, which I truly believe won’t. But I can’t know for sure. So the earlier you get in the better…
Hey if you’re comfortable with the idea of how a Ponzi scheme works and where your money comes from, go nuts.
It takes a certain type of person to be perfectly fine with the idea of blatantly ripping people off.
And / or a person with absolutely no idea:
1) How HYIP ponzi/pyramid fraud works
2) No sense of history OR a desire to gain one by researching
lol, It’s so funny how sarcastic and judgmental you sounded, coming from a person that might be a person type “saint” perfect most holly… kkkkk and even has followers like littleroundman #382
Oz and littleroundman. The fact is, you guys talk about what you don’t know… You are outsiders, people that don’t have a clue about the reality inside the company, only collecting scattered information you can find online.
If you guys had just posted your opinion here, even if opposing the business but with respect to other’s options. I would’ve respect for your position and would understand it. But to just judge peoples’ personality without knowing them and the organization based on history and other’s failure, that’s just too weak and childish.
I won’t even waste my time with judgmental, ignorant people like you guys.
To others reading this, I’ll be honest with you. I’m totally impartial on this. I’m not saying WCM777 is fully trustable or isn’t a scam. But I have done a lot of research from people that are with the company since its beginning and I have decided to experiment it. only time will tell the truth, so far I’m very satisfied with it.
I’m also with a clear conscience before men and God, that I’m not ripping people off as accused by littleroundman #382.
So be the judge of your choices and self, not of others and you might end up in a much better position than the outsiders that do not have the courage to judge or face their own fears nor can risk and believe anything else other than their small minds.
Whatever helps you sleep at night chief.
A Ponzi scheme is a Ponzi scheme and your money comes from victims who invest after you. Sooner or later someone at the bottom is going to lose all their money.
Well, it’s not lost – you took it.
You’re also somewhat misguided if you think your respect means anything to me.
You sound unbelievably stupid. Don’t quit your day job.
How does pointing out a blatantly obvious HYIP ponzi / pyramid fraud morph into being unable to “face their own fears”
How on earth do you know what “fears” posters have ??
Ja ja you are just blind, the cloud service is real, expensive or not, do not open your mouth in things that you simple ignore. Maybe it´s a scam with a great workin cloud service, I give you that.
I can operate my own cloud service in about 30 minutes with an open-source turnkey package if I have the bandwidth and the servers. So what?
Does it also include password cracking and the launching of attacks against those who use the purchased the services?
Couldn’t happen right?
This is a Ponzi…Massachusetts agrees with that statement. Joe and his ilk are taking money from “suckers” and will profit because the last suckers haven’t lost their money yet.
Isn’t this ripe for clawbacks anyway? Doesn’t the government go after people’s ill-gotten gains if this is “proven” to be a Ponzi? I know Zeek-fools who are panicked as they spent all their “profits/booty”…and now somehow have to see the Ferrari to pay back…that’s a “bitch” as it were.
Sell the Ferrari…and try to hide the money somehow…I see real “fears”, not imagined from stealing from people.
That remains to be seen. Joe is still in the sucker hole.
It appears you are the one who is blind. If you read what I said, I said the service was “neither here nor there”.
You can attach a cloud service, ice cream cakes, bags of dog shits – whatever you like to a Ponzi scheme. It’s still just a Ponzi scheme.
That’s what I thought.
This Lapintek seems to think that WCM invented the web.
No, just that Ming Xu was next to Al Gore when he invented the “Information Superhighway”. 😀
Wow, I will hire in my next endeavour.
Really? I’m afraid am dealing with way too smart people here.
I understood that WCM777 has been halted for the reason of selling unregistered securities in November. May I know what is the progress of it or is there any relevant news regarding to this issue?
Banned in Massachusetts, with no further action from US regulators.
If I had to guess I’d say they’re probably building a case against the scheme or working out how to best nab Xu (who’s in the US) with all the Hong Kong money laundering going on (no doubt funds are routed all over the place).
WCM777 is being banned in Massachusetts, then how about in other countries? Seems that there is no any negative responds about WCM777 in the rest of the countries. Am I correct?
No. You are wrong.
Just go to page one of the internet. Its explained there.
Ponzi schemes are illegal the world over.
Wow, brand new CEO, Andrew Pan, due to the experience of Mr. Pan, now is running a Ponzi! LOL! Go warn him!!
Just google the word SARCASTIC hoss, its explained there.
WCM777 isn’t a Ponzi scheme because of who is the CEO, it’s a Ponzi scheme because of its business model.
the examples given in poperpoint show package director which is 32 x 100 usd = 3200 , which 1600 can wdraw and another 1600 in the b -wallet. How about small package 399, ehich member can get only 4usd , so 200 can wdraw and 200 more in b -wallet, so member need to add more 200 in order to sustain the bonus.
Here, not many people can afford to join with capital 1999 usd! this is crazy! anda people always misslook this
It’s banned in Peru and Colombia. But you don’t need to include those 2 countries in your “rest of the countries” list.
It’s not banned in Antarctica yet, and it probably won’t be banned there either.
Thank God for the WCM777 Cloud. I couldn’t google sarcastic without it.
Wrong again dummy, need to PAY 2000 US dlls to use it.
Who would pay $2000 to google sarcastic…except you…dummy.
Wow the TV app looks fabulous and works perfect, National Geographic TV among many others channels…buddy.
I cant´n believe it, the ponzi are giving us tv channels before they run with our money!! Bastards, hope they burn in hell!!
Whatever you add to a Ponzi scheme doesn’t negate the fact that it’s still a Ponzi scheme.
The business model defines it as such, not what it’s attached to.
What!? tv channels right there in the WMC 777 Cloud?! They must have an internet connection or something!
Ja ja, you guys really make my day, I´m reading this hilarious comments while watching HBO HD in my WCM7 TV Station.
You are totally right, to good to be true.
Too good to be true? Uh, *whoosh*?
would like an urgent solution wcm777 as the blocking of my accounts about 2 months since I joined the company.
I’m disappointed with the wcm777 since realized the payment correctly and still continue my bills bloquedas. I’m a doctor in Brazil and thought the WCM777 was serious business.
I want a quick solution to this issue or my money back!
I just got an email alert from this site that said one of the promoters was gunned down yesterday, and truth to that?
Bad translation, Dan. Blame Google Translate.
Yeah I nuked the article, read it back and the “recorded” translation made more sense than the “shot” one. I didn’t pick it up because both verbs fit the sentence (dude was recorded promoting WCM777 vs. dude was shot promoting WCM777).
Only article I had to nuke last year due to translation issues (seeing as him getting “shot” was the whole article itself). Apologies for any inconvenience (and thanks to Kasey for picking it up).
Yeah, blame my high school Spanish lessons. 😀
“Grabar” is an odd verb in Spanish. It literally means “engrave”, but in the 20th century it picked up the meaning “record (verb)”, and since you can record both video and audio, it can also be translated as “photo’ed”, “recorded”, “taped”, etc.
They do have a TV station… “The Way TV” and “Manna TV” in Southern California.
The Way TV insulted Muslims worldwide last year by helping “Sam Bassille” produce “The Innocense of Muslims” I have a photo of Ming Xu standing next to Joseph Nasralla, head of “The Way TV” tweeted by Ming Xu himself.
My mom is stupid enough to burn $8000 us dollars into this shit. I’m so pissed off. I’ve warned her that there’s NO FREE MONEY awhile ago. Oh well, didn’t listen and she told me after a more than a month after she thrown out the money.
Is there anyway to reveal this scam to the public and crush it down? I know it’s impossible to have any money back, but I just don’t know how to destroy my mom’s dream.
WCM777 was halted in Massachusetts, and has been banned or is under investigation several other places (Peru, Colombia, etc.).
It has recently re-branded itself as “Kingdom 777”, in an attempt to openly re-enter the US and other markets.
Here’s a list of WCM777 articles:
Those articles should be more updated than I am, I haven’t focused on WCM777 in the last few months. A quick look at some of the headlines should give you a brief overview.
PatrickPretty.com may have some other details, because of slightly different focus. You can try to google:
We will normally reveal scams to the public, but we’re analysing the companies as “business models” rather than as “scams” = more neutral viewpoint, focused on certain factual parts. We will also cover legitimate companies in a similar way.
Now that Better Living Global is “delaying” their payouts for over 3 months (the end is surely near), NEXT UP…WCM/Kingdom 777. Same phony business, same ponzi scheme, lots of the same people defrauding others in this scam.
Wake up people…these are obvious frauds and though some people have made BIG money…they may have to pay it ALL back (clawbacks…Government MAKES you pay it back)…and you could be liable for fines, legal fees, and even JAIL.
Even if you “didn’t start it”…you are still responsible for people losing a lot of money and the handcuffs you’ll have around your wrists are just as cold as the ones Phil will feel someday.
My mom is just dump, and still planing to repurchase because she hasn’t been able to cash out any amount but 100 days over. She doesn’t listen to me…….we all know it’s not delayed. there’s no actual funding running the “company”.
Buzzfeed News are running a series of articles about major banks facilitating money laundering for criminal organisations.
According to today’s published piece ‘HSBC’s Hong Kong branch allowed WCM777, a Ponzi scheme, to move more than $15 million even as the business was being barred from operating in three states.’ and ‘the company’s owner used the looted funds to buy two golf courses, a 7,000-square-foot mansion, a 39.8-carat diamond, and mining rights in Sierra Leone.’
Yeah I just saw this. Going to see if I can get a copy of FinCEN files and see if there’s any other SARs that pertain to MLM fraud.
edit: Ooh, just saw there’s some OneCoin reports. Give me a minute.
edit2: Damn. ICIJ isn’t providing the full reports for download, only spreadsheet summaries. These are pointless without the corresponding data to identify what the reports were filed on.