TVI Express hires lawyers to ensure compliance in US
About a week ago now it was revealed that TVI Express had been ordered to cease and desist operations in the US state of Georgia and possibly Hawaii. The reason for the cease and desist was because TVI Express was allegedly non-compliant with US state law regarding MLM business opportunities.
Turns out these orders are not only very real but serious enough that TVI Express has hired lawyers Grimes and Reese (who count Monavie and the Trump Network as clients) to ensure full compliance in the US.
In a recent update sent out to his downline, TVI Express Presidential member Don Traurig wrote
Hi Team,
We obtained some big news today from Grimes and Reese, the law firm working on making TVI compliant in the US. They are the premier law firm to represent network marketing companies in the US.
We spoke directly to Kevin Grimes of Grimes & Reese Law Firm on the phone this morning (Tuesday, Sept. 7th). He confirmed that TVI Express is one of their clients and that Grimes & Reese is currently working with TVI to make them compliant in the United States.
I know its hard to be patient but most great things in life do take patience and knowing that Grimes and Reese is working on making TVI compliant with the laws of the US is monumental news to us!!!!!
Meanwhile I would have thought the monumental news to TVI Express distributors was that TVI Express wasn’t compliant in the first place but hey.
Additionally, it’s interesting to note that whilst TVI Express’ non compliance has sent some founders like Patrick Dejour running, others seem to be somewhat excited at the prospect of TVI being made legal. Y’know, this after working the business for in some cases over two years or more.
I had a look at the TVI Express opportunity a while back now and one look of their compensation plan was enough to convince me it was just a money game.
Whilst it’s great to see TVI Express appear to be actively doing something about their US non-compliance (as opposed to absolutely nothing against the pyramid scheme charges laid out against them in Australia), lawyers or not there’s a fundamental flaw to their business plan that prevents compliance.
I’m not a lawyer nor do I carry the weight of the FCC… but here’s a tip guys; you’re never going to obtain compliance when you’ve got the following information prominently displayed on your website;
Do I need to sell any products?
No. You don’t need to sell any products.
How TVI Express was permitted to trade in the US for two years I have no idea. Best of luck to Grimes and Reese, you’re going to need it guys.
Or as I would put it… The only way to “fix” a scam is to shut it down. 🙂
First of all, let me say that I am very happy that TVI has obtained the law services of Grimes & Reese. If U havent seen the cease & desist order, it named Patrick Dejour as the primary along with Sorrano.
Secondly, TVI Express has only been in the US for just over a year now. Thirdly, U and K Chang mentioned a problem with TVI’s statement found in their online FAQ”s. “Do I need to sell any products? No, You dont need to sell products.”
You stated that U looked at the TVI oppty. Where did U see products on TVI website? There aren’t any products on TVI’s website.
Briefly, TVI only sells memberships to their travel club. The travel club is a part of the Sabre company who owns Travelocity.
If you look at the Travelocity site and TVI travel site, they are basically the same site. I can go on that site right now and book a cruise if I want. That’s what I paid my $250 lifetime membership for along with the oppty to market TVI membership to potential customers and/or agents. THAT’S IT!
Another point is I can sign up anybody with their permission of course, and market memberships for them and they do not have to make a single sale.
They will make money and I will make money. Been there done that!
TVI Express is correct. You dont have to sell any products. TVI has paid all of their members who cycled according to my upline and I even got paid. What’s going to hurt TVI here in the US is not the plan, that’s working.
It’s the promise of free 7/6 nights vacation causing a false advertising situation in which the attornies are going to have to deal with.
That’s the non- compliance that’s going to hurt them. Thousands of people that have signed up in the US are still waiting to take advantage of TVI’s promise and that includes myself with 7 vacation vouchers to use.
Have a great day and I hope that helps.
The travel membership is the product.
See the problem here, you’re marketing memberships which are what TVI Express’ actual product is. You’re selling memberships to a business opportunity, rather then products that have the option for customers to enquire about a potential business opportunity in retailing them.
Are you kidding me? Since when was it legal in the US to market an opportunity that is nothing more then a recruitment money game? Sure it might work and commissions get paid out but due to the reliance on new recruitments it’s classified as a pyramid scheme.
These are most certainly not legal in the US and a whole host of other countries.
It’s not about the non-existent travel portal, it’s the fact that at the business core is a recruitment driven model that is nothing more then a pyramid scheme!
Why do you need lawyers to fix a travel portal? Just hire some programming monkeys to get it up and bam your compliant. Fixing the core of your business (the plan) on the other hand is something you need lawyers for.
Actually, I am not kidding. One thing U r wrong about is that you r not selling membership to a business oppty which tells me that U dont understand TVI Express.
When U sign up, U have a choice of whether U want to be in business or not. I do not have to become a business agent in TVI Express, I can just enjoy booking travel, airline tickets, etc for life and that’s it.
When U join TVI, U automatically are placed on the board. Membership is lifetime $250 and U get a 7/6night vac anywhere in the world plus if U took your vacation within the US and U flew, TVI Express would pay for your air return trip home.
That was TVI’s pitch. Now U tell me how much would a vacation to Las Vegas cost along with free air fare home?
Way more than the $250 lifetime membership that was paid.
People did not have to sell TVI Express to get that. They could just enjoy the benefits of going in their back office and buying what they need, should a member decide to travel somewhere.
Now I would haved to sell 32 memberships personally to make my first $500 commission, but the point is, I could just sell memberships to TVI Express and no one had to get into the business part, although I would be working my tail off doing it.
That takes away from your pyramid scheme U talking about. I got too much law in me.
Take for example, Amway, Mary Kay, even Bon Voyage 1000, I can join and just used the products, I dont have to become a business associate and still enjoy the benefits of saving money on buying for myself. Same principle with TVI Express.
Like I said, TVI Express lost credibility when vacation offer wasnt honored.
TVI made a contract with it’s members when they advertised the vacation offer on their website. It was a binding contract between their members and business agents.
Contracts must be honored. Especially here in the US, then when it’s not honored it becomes false advertising. U know that.
Those attys are going to be dealing with that too. Not only that, it’s hard to challenge a company that’s in another country. And U r right!
TVI could have hired some programming monkeys, but I dont think they wanted to. It dont take that long to fix a vacation portal.
It’s not hard to challenge a company in another country. The Australian Tax Office, along with other Australian government bodies, have done quite well prosecuting MLM’s that do their primary industry in Australia, yet are written on paper as an overseas company (Hong Kong, Switzerland and USA come to mind). Just look at the history of a company called 1Cellnet.
TVI like other MLM’s I’ve seen just offer the “retail” side of things as a way to help dodge litigation as a pyramid scheme. The real question to ask is where is the best return on investment to be made? Retail or the network? If retail sales margins can equal the network, there should be no foul. If the margins favour the network and getting people into the trees, then obviously it’s open to interpretation by the regulatory bodies.
Uh, doesn’t sound like I’ve got much choice there at all.
Face it, the travel backend has been down for months – who else but those looking to make money off the business opportunity are buying TVI memberships?!
Given that you get vouchers for signing people up (cycling out of the boards), why on Earth would you bother buying them retail either?
TVI Express didn’t bother fixing their travel portal because quite simply it didn’t matter. The $$$ kept rolling in via commissions to distributors and the company owners because simply put the product (membership/vouchers) has absolutely nothing to do with company payouts.
It's all tied into recruitment which is why they've been issued the cease and desist. Yes having a portal that doesn't work is dodgy but the fact that none of the travel services offer tie into distributor commissions kind of makes it irrelevant distributor wise.
By far the more pressing issue for authorities is the recruitment game I'd imagine.
Clearly Tony had already drank the koolaid and is hooked, so the following explanation may not get through, but I’ll try.
Tony, in the US, any MLM have to sell a product or a service. This explanation is straight from Gerald Nehra, who was head legal counsel for Amway for 9 years, and you can read his own words at mlmatty.com. Furthermore, MLM must only pay commission on actual sale of products to seller and his/her upline, and by FTC guideline, this commission cannot exceed 30% of a distributor’s income. If the company pays on recruitment only, it is ILLEGAL in the US. Even Amway and Melaleuca got hit by this at one time to another.
TVI Express pays on recruit, and since you have to sell nothing, and are not rewarded for doing so (heck, you can’t even tell what the product is!), there is no incentive to sell ANYTHING, just to recruit. Thus, it is ILLEGAL in the US of A. No amount of lawyering is going to change that.
If you bother to look it up sometime, you’ll find that TVI Express’s operation also violates EU’s law (and thus, Cyprus law) on pyramid scheme, and India’s law on “money chits” (same idea).
Oops, bad explanation. That 30% figure should be “compensation for recruiting”. 70% of income must from from actual sales (either from downline or sale by him/herself), and 30% from recruiting.
This is called the FTC “Koscot” rule, as it was created as a part of the FTC case against “Koscot Interplanetary”. There are other rules, but this is one of the easiest to explain.
And sorry about one more message:
TVI Express’s membership is WORTHLESS. The website is just a clone of Travelocity, which is FREE to use. The 7-day 6-night vacation is impossible to redeem and the only lists of hotels available were all in India as per TVI Express announcements, so it is worthless as well, since you need to pay ANOTHER $150 USD to redeem it!
So the ONLY THING your $250 (or whatever) buy you is your board slot, which qualifies you for eventual $10000 USD payout. That proves it is a pyramid scheme. Again, no amount of lawyering will fix it. You need to fundamentally dismantle the system.
After all, what sort of “business opportunity” can TVI Express be if it sells nothing?
Tony wrote: “When U sign up, U have a choice of whether U want to be in business or not. I do not have to become a business agent in TVI Express, I can just enjoy booking travel, airline tickets, etc for life and that’s it.”
The booking portal is TRAVELOCITY, and that’s FREE to use. So you just wasted $250 for something that’s FREE. You call it a benefit, I call it FRAUD.
Tony wrote: “When U join TVI, U automatically are placed on the board. Membership is lifetime $250 and U get a 7/6night vac anywhere in the world plus if U took your vacation within the US and U flew, TVI Express would pay for your air return trip home. That was TVI’s pitch. Now U tell me how much would a vacation to Las Vegas cost along with free air fare home?”
And you took their pitch at face value, but did you know their own announcements only named 130 or so hotels available for booking, and they are ALL IN INDIA? Did you know they only admitted to “thousands of people” using their vacations? Did you mention it now costs extra $150 as “processing fee and taxes” to even book the trip? And the redemption process was only working intermittently for WELL OVER A YEAR now?
You claim it’s a club: a club that offers something available elsewhere FOR FREE, and a trip that’s impossible to redeem AND requires additional money, and cost $250 USD (plus fees). Either you enjoy paying something for nothing, or you’re a moron, or both. I haven’t decided which yet.
Just found something else interesting… On the SAME website of that announcement, there’s another message, allegedly from Tarun Trikha:
http://increasemymonthlyincome.com/tvi-express-ceo-tarun-trikha-conference-call-september-92010-news/
2. Mr Trikha also confirmed again that his attorneys in the US are currently working on compliance but also asked for people not to send emails or make calls to them since it ties up the attorneys and their office.
Trust me, do NOT try to verify my words.
Can a travel club offering a large digital library as well as valid vacation certificate, and personal booking agent be considered a pyramid as well?
It depends on what the membership buys.
Technically, a “travel club” is not a pyramid, because people don’t join a club to make money, nor would a club promise its members “opportunity to make $10000 a week”. Nor would a “club” have any use for “uplines” and MLM. You can ‘refer’ someone to a club and get a small bonus, like 1 month free, but there’s no reason make him a ‘downline’.
In the case of TVI Express…
$250 does NOT buy you the vacation, since 1) it’s virtually impossible to redeem 2) it costs extra $150 in “processing fees and taxes” to redeem, and 3) all announced hotels available are in INDIA
$250 does NOT buy the online booking agent… Because that’s just Travelocity.com, which is FREE TO USE.
Clearly, the only thing $250 buys from TVI Express is entry into the matrices, which “qualifies” you for $10000 if you cycle out of both matrices (i.e. have over 200+ people under you). That means it’s a pyramid scheme. The booking agent and vacation certificate are merely disguises.
You did not name any compensation plan that I can examine, so based on what you’ve given, the answer is “not enough information”.
@Michelle
Depends if the booking agent is the MLM member or an actual booking agent, if the digital library has anything to do with the company’s other products and ultimately whether or not one is able to join said travel club and earn an income solely from recruiting others and not paying attention to the product line.
I purchased a few memberships for me and my family member last year I have yet to be able to use them, I have tried using all of them 1 of which was a gift for my niece.
Has anyone actually taken a trip using TVI, I know alot of people involved and none of them have been able to book any travel or get a hold of anyone, I am still waiting.
I stopped being invloved, because I feel its a scam!!
Jean
Hi Jean, In Indonesia, its so simple to book hotel with tvi, our leader will assist us. we only pay 10% tax for pay hotel. I think we must include in group to success with tvi, not only to save our money when traveling but also get our reward when our friend or family join.
Its easy to get $500 or $10000, our leader will give cash money directly, in front of me…and use it to pay your holiday cost.
I don’t know where is Mr K Chang get this conclusion, whether this is a personal experience or simply on the basis of statements of some people?
because so far as I know, here (in Indonesia) booking hotels through TVI is very easy, if we can not do it online, we can do so through the leader group. Based on experience, we only pay the hotel tax just 10%.
As i know, joining TVI promised benefits, both for people who just want to enjoy free hotel facilities and various promo discounts, or for those who want to lead the business. But we must understand the system before joining. And you must join the group with a competent leader.
Source of company profits that provide facilities to its members (such as TVI Express), of course comes from the addition of members.
Is this illegal? of course not, because a lot of similar companies who only benefit from the addition of members.
When companies make profit, of course, that company must share it, if he has employees he must pay it, or if the company uses only the other members as an agent, of course, the agent should also get the benefit.
But how? with the profits-sharing system agreed by the members. With our joining into TVI, mean we have agreed how they share the profits.
Do you think TVI illegal just by looking at how to they are treated badly in some countries? I do not think so, it could be happening locally, because the members run the business is not as it should.
This is where the need for a kind of “Boot Camp”, Seminar, training and so forth. To train the leader how to run the business in TVI properly and correctly, so that the leader can lead their members about how to run this business or simply make hotel bookings.
mr. K. Chang…
Let us do the counting, how many companies benefit from the addition of members. I believe you are already know, like what TVI membership scheme.
to make 1 person at the highest level in a traveler boards fly, it would require eight new members means the 8 x $ 250 = 2000 – $ 500 (for members who fly) = $ 1500. Members who out of the traveler will go to the board express. On Board Express will also need 8 people coming out of the board traveler for 1 person with the highest levels on board express fly. So total revenue TVI 8 x $ 1,500 = $ 12,000 – $ 10,000 (for members who fly from the board express) = $ 2000. The outbreak of Express board forced the company to spend $ 500 to register a member who fly back to the Express board, so the total clean profit is $ 1,500 from total income $ 16,000 (8x8x $ 250) or less than 10%! This does not include residual income gained members after they get $ 10,000 (gold member get 5% of each additional member in the group). I strongly believe, that they founded the company TVI is intended to maximize our resources in order to get a worthy life with the help of people that we known. If their goal is not that, then we can make it into like that.
@deone
TVI doesn’t provide facilities to it’s members, it provides membership which then in turn provides access to third party services.
Members are only rewarded upon recruiting others to the business. There is no commissions awarded for booking travel or using third party services through your TVI membership.
Yes, this is illegal in many countries.
‘everyone else is doing it‘ doesn’t make it legal.
No. TVI is illegal because commissions are only paid out upon recruitment of new members. This is ultimately unsustainable as a business model.
Why do you need a bootcamp to ‘train’ other people to go out and recruit new members. TVI hasn’t run into regulatory problems due to the actions of individual members, they’ve run into trouble because of their business model.
Companies don’t have members, they have employees.
As for more members = more benefit, yes but in the context of MLM, if the only way for a distributor to gain a commission is through direct recruitment of new members, then it’s nothing more than a pyramid scheme.
So you’re saying is you are getting a BETTER deal than what TVI Express promised? That you do NOT have to pay $150 USD for taxes and processing based on THEIR OWN announcements?
I guess this proves that TVI Express only cheats non-Indonesian TVI Express members! Thanks for your evidence!
I thought your holiday is free? or are you paying taxes out of that too? Why does TVI Express announcement says you need to pay money into “taxes and fees” eWallet, and you CANNOT use your regular eWallet to do that?
Why you Indonesian TVI Express members get to bend the rules?
Hi, K Chang, I don’t think TVI do cheating, but we just didn’t know how to do best deal with they rules.
Besides Hotels, we must eat etc right?
They had rules, and we just find the beast deal with it… be smart my friend. Because of that we here in Indonesia happy do business with tvi 🙂
@Deone — I was NOT talking about food. Please do NOT change the subject.