Polaris Media Group in denial over Liberty League scam
With the recent NSW Office of Fair Trading press release going out yesterday there’s been a bit of an awkward silence over at the Polaris Media Group camp.
You’re trying to sell a scam that’s worked previously but now even random prospects are starting to ask some very uncomfortable questions.
So what do you do, how do you answer these questions and still get the sales?
The following is an actual query that was raised by an associate over at the ‘Polaris Media Group Network’ forum run by Polaris EMC member Tony Rush addressing this very issue.
I guarantee you the answers given will leave you shaking your head in disbelief.
So a prospect has done some research of their own and you need to nip it in the bud immediately. Your advisor is too busy making money to help you out so you turn to your follow associates within Polaris Media Group.
What sayest thou?
Really…?
New South Wales is a state of Australia… how the government operates doesn’t seem to have any relevance to the link and whilst I’m not a scientist, generally speaking websites that end in .gov.au are real government websites.
…but none of that really matters?
Last I checked the Australian government was running Australia and decided what was and wasn’t a scam in this country.
I don’t know what imaginary land Polaris Media Group distributors are living in but when your government declares your company to be a scam – that generally matters.
Infact it matters a lot.
The reply continues;
…so if a company has been trading for 9 years and has massive growth, that automatically means there’s no way known it could be a pyramid scheme?
Obviously this associate has graduated from the backyard school of business.
I wonder if that’d hold up in court?
‘We think Liberty League is an illegal pyramid scheme and you’ve been selling it to Australians for the past two years, how do you plead?’
‘Well, Liberty League has been trading for nine years and has wonderful products so it can’t possibly be a pyramid scheme. I plead not guilty.’
‘…’
‘…let’s just save some time then. So which flavour of anal lube do you prefer, peppermint, strawberry or pillowbiter?’
Uh, I hate to be a stickler but if your prospect has taken it upon themselves to investigate the company themselves and query this government information, isn’t that ‘judging for themselves’?
And yes, you’re reading the rest of that correctly, the Polaris Media Group associate is actually telling a fellow advisor to tell their prospect to disregard the information and advice found on an Australian government website.
Again with the sticklering but isn’t the fact that all the Liberty League top earners exhausted their various markets with Liberty League’s pyramid scheme the reason the company had to rebrand itself as Polaris Media Group?
You know, to move away from this unsustainable pyramid model?
I’m totally with you on the jail part though, can a brother get an AMEN!?
The second reply the associate received was even more alarming:
Um the advisor in question is unavailable. That’s the entire reason the question is being asked publicly.
The advisor is too busy swimming in their pool of money, buying shoes or flying around on their private jet.
Cmon, advisors don’t have time to answer stupid questions like this.
Again, the associate is being advised by their co-workers to disregard the information and advice provided on an Australian government website.
Further to that how do you become more informed about Polaris Media Group?
Oh you meant go watch more Youtube videos and listen to some more conference calls. Well gee I’m sure that’ll make the legal problems go away.
Like this one time, I was being sued because this company because they didn’t like the fact I was outranking them on Google search results.
So I fired up Youtube and just watched videos all day and then all of a sudden-somethingsomething* incomedisclaimer *mumblenothingtoseehere-SIX FIGURE INCOME!
Repeat after me:
THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT ARE LYING.
THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT ARE LYING.
THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT ARE LYING.
Mindframe change complete, you may now resume your day to day activities.
‘Hi I saw this press release on a government website stating your company is a pyramid scheme, is this true?’
‘…hey watch these youtube videos and read these press releases.’
‘Yes but you didn’t answer my que-‘
‘WATCH THESE FREAKING YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND READ THESE PRESS RELEASES!’
‘but… how does that answ-‘
‘THAT’S IT, NO SIX FIGURE INCOME FOR YOU!’
With the NSW office of fair trading currently monitoring those involved in promoting Liberty League International in NSW over the last two years and advising other Australian states and territories on the scam, it is quite alarming to see these sorts of answers being given to associates to relay to new prospects.
Alarming but not surprising.
Internally similar deception is being used on prospective associates in order to convince them to join the company.
This recording was edited from a publicly available conference call dated Friday 4th September 2009.
Currently Polaris Media Group is in pre-launch. The company is set to officially open next Wednesday 9th, September 2009.
Despite the company not even being launched yet, somehow associates have been successful with them for 2 years?
Section 52 of the Trade Practices Act states that:
A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.
Does someone want to explain to me how using testimonials from a previous company to market the merit of a new company isn’t misleading or deceptive?
On one hand Polaris Media Group are trying to distance themselves from the Liberty League scam ruling by claiming to be an entirely new company with a new focus.
Yet their marketing calls seem to make no distinction between the two companies and offer seemingly impossible testimonials.
So which one is it guys?
wowwy…
I cannot believe these people are so stupid?? Do they realise with providing such statements can have them personally charged???? …”I’ve been with polaris media group for the last 18 months” …? the company has only existed since the 4th of September 2009?
Why mislead the public? Why can’t you tell the truth and advise “we have been with liberty league for 18 months which is now ‘polaris media group’ ”
Trades Practices ACT will be all over this … do not ever think your
Polaris Media Group will be shut down PERIOD. Each excited AUSTRALIAN liberty league member needs to face REALITY, accept it and start looking into another legitimate business venture.
You have been played… don’t you get it?
Liberty league management knew about the the proceedings from Doft NSW and bc Australia makes up a large portion of their sales they prepared for the ‘BIG solution’ just weeks before the formal announcement to the public (liberty league a SCAM) hence the creation of ‘Polaris Media Group’… The backend system are not ready to be used for a reason and thats bc they are currently being programmed (frantically).. don’t ask me how I know!
I wish every poor sucker who joined liberty league the best and remember if you are endorsing the product to another… this makes you the biggest sucker of them all. GET OUT before its too late as ACCC is all over it.
If you look at the PMG backend, it’s using Exigo.
Though I did find this through Rentacoder:
http://softmarket.ro/freelance-jobs/auction_details/529158/familiar-with-exigo—need-programmer.html
Considering the timeframe is equal to the current PMG building date, it would PMG are/have outsourced their coding work overseas for the cheapest rate possible.
Cheap work always means more security issues 😉
Tony Rush has deleted those replies and closed the discussion!!!
This poor associate has joined the discussion to get some advice on what to do and Tony “delete” Rush has come in and wiped the slate clean. I am very surprised he has not deleted the question or changed the link to a polaris propaganda video or BS media release.
This shows the heavy handed moderation happening over in Liberty League/Polaris land.
Lies and deception go hand in hand with these operators and new-comers are none the wiser….
Pretending that Liberty League are/were legitimate because of their supposed success over nine years is some load of gob.
How long were the likes of Alan Bond, Christopher Skase and numerous other ‘legit’ operations around before they went belly up along with investors money?
I find it hard to believe that any of the ‘leaders’ offering the advice as outlined by Oz, are actually the full quid. The advice is mindless, dangerous and most likely illegal… insane is a word that comes to mind.
Good article Oz.
Not surprising to me, because he knows if he were to delete it, another would pop up soon after. What he’s offered now is a libertyleague email address to send your concerns to. WOW, how thoughtful…like you’d receive an unbiased reply lol.
I’ve kinda figured out that it isn’t so hard to make six figures or more with this company if:
– You have no conscious.
– You’re good at being consistent when it comes to talking shit.
– You find after-midnight lame American infomercials intriguing.
– You can master the art of crying for your employee-of-the-month video.
– Your name is Rachael Oliver, or Tony Rush.
…the list goes on.
from a Polaris member
“Imagine if you were given the opportunity to invest in Microsoft before it launched. Would you have taken up the offer not knowing the future??
We are already a worldwide organisation in pre launch and we are taking off on the 09/09/09”
should be interesting to see what happens , re Fair Trading , maybe Polaris have changed the criteria and are now legit ????
Douglas,
You are delusional and brainwashed.
Did the ‘Microsoft’ analogy come from the top? or the spinner queen herself Rachel Oliver???
Let me tell you Polaris Media Group will NOT continue to operate in Australia. You can spend thousands buying into it and say whatever you like to help you sleep better at night..
By the way.. SixFigureChicks are changing their name. The Australia Government weren’t too impressed…
Please explain… All he is doing is quoting what he has seen a Polaris ASSociate has said… He himself is not one…
Can I change the subject and ask if anyone has heard of Carbon Copy Pro?
Thanks Rachel, yheah chill out marie , i;’m quoting a Plaris member …sheesh
and yes Brian i’ve heard of Carbon Copy Pro…….another “i don’t know what to make of it” scheme
ooops sorry about my spelling was sitting in the dark
Im not happy with the change over to PMG and want out. However i want my money that i invested into this. I never asked for the change so there fore should be entitled to my money back. All of a sudden the advisors dont answer your emails? SUPRISE, SUPRISE. Oh no, is this classed as negativity, or should i say there way of getting out of this and not responding.
Gday Keelan, can I ask why exactly you’re not happy with the change?
I wouldn’t rate your chances of getting any money back due to goodwill on behalf of your advisors any time soon.
Since the company has changed over to PMG, everyone who was with LLI, should be entitled to a full refund. People dont be scared to share your views as you have done nothing wrong. Im discusted how they can hold Business Overview calls for people to hear the opportunity and say theve been with polaris for 2 years and so on. PLEASE. Polaris is only just launched. What a joke. This definately woke me up!!! Oh and the testimonials that are heard are the same ones shared all the time. The so called leaders…
Not unlike alot of Polaris ASSociates…. in the dark that is!
Usually in a business, when there is a buyout / sell off to another business that usually means change of contract for existing customers.
There is no contract for transition, is there? And since all that’s happened is a name change, people should still be dealing with the same organisation essentially (and legally).
So, from a business contract perspective, you should be able to to request refunds for monies outlayed. It’s all in the fine print (and how much they want to scam you) as to whether or not you will actually recieve a refund.
This, again, is where the Department of Fair Trading comes into play. If the advisors (in Australia) aren’t responding, take them to court to retrieve your monies. If you paid on card/credit, approach the bank in question for a chargeback.
HAHAHAHA thanks for all the free advertising Oz. You couldn’t be more wrong about Polaris Media Group and you’re about to find out! Did you go to SCS to hear what the changes are? NO! Maybe you should have, so you could be spouting some truths on your little “soap box”.
By the way, yes they are.
Hey Simon, welcome to BehindMLM. No problem giving free advertising, although, I think you’ll find this kind of advertising a little negative, and may in fact, dry up your well of potential victims.
Now, about the changes, would you care to enlighten us? Or are you a typical LLI/PMG ASSociate who has been brainwashed to the point of death? Please, this has been the main goal of the topics here and the thread over at Whirlpool. To get to the truth.
Oh, and by the way, you are contravening your ASSociate agreement by posting here. All media and interviews should be done through the Wilkinson Public Relations Group. Mr Tony “Delete” Rush would be most disappointed in your behaviour.
He expressly told all ASSociates not to engage with “media or bloggers”. You’d better watch yourselves, or you might find yourselves kicked out of the BIGGEST AND BESTEST COMPANY EVAH!!!
@keelan
Sad to say I think you are lucky if you get out now before you lose any more. Scammers tend to blow it all on expensive undurable trivia like cars, grog or drugs (or donations to their favorite cult, or charities such as the Tuson Grayhound Rescue Service – truly!) so it vanishes like water into sand.
I’d plan on doing without your investment for the next five to ten years, and if you eventually get any sort of settlement, consider it profit.
Carbon copy Pro is the new scam WAKE UP PEOPLE
This is the first time i have heard of PMG and am confused…this sounds very similar to the US company Quixtar except for the fact that even though all the views of PMG are of “illegal” activity or plain moral injustice and existed for a TOTAL of 9 years,how is it that even of all the blog sites,all the legal battles,all the scrutiny,so called “bad practices” they are accused of can a business like Quixtar/Amway last for 50 years,be registared with ATO(AUS.Tax.Office), classified as a legitimate business,and on top of this be one of the very few LARGE businesses that have lasted through resession after resession after resession?
My conclusion as a third party observer:it truly DOESN’T make a difference how much turbulence people will create in regards to these businesses because some people will join,some won’t,who cares.Because its obviously oblivious to people that its much easier to point the finger at something that has created jobs,whether it be 9 or 50 years, and even in some cases…made people free. Thats not a government issue rather than a lack of life planning issue. I know most of you wont accept what i say but hey:some will,some wont,who cares. Because you must live your life,not looking in the review mirror, otherwise the oppurtunity/message will pass you by in an instant. Instead why aren’t we looking or better,DOING the things in life that WE want to do?in fact you know what…Im going right now to do those things!
Adios
Hi Rod, welcome to the discussion.
Is Quixtar and Amway the same company?
If so the comparison is invalid, Amway sell consumables and therefore is a sustainable business without mass recruiting people to onsell the products.
Polaris Media sell once off use dvd courses (you can re-use them but the sale is once off) and then conferences that let’s face it, nobody but people interested in joining the company themselves are going to pay to attend.
Why would someone pay to go to a Polaris conference just to hear about how succesful the top of the pyramid has been with the company if they weren’t interested in joining the company?
In summary, whilst what you have written may be applicable for Amway, it’s irrelevant for Polaris.
Tony Rush and Polaris Media is a scam.
Many thanks for this webpage. Browsing the job-ads today I stumbled upon an ad for: Marketing Executive / Sales Professional. Because I have a brain, I checked the picture with a magnifying glass and started searching for some info (the job ad does not disclose the company name) – and voila! – all the info I need right here on your page. I’m in New Zealand – this must be the new fishing waters….
Seriously wise up people, from the Government, work, schools, everything is a pyramid scheme, get over it thats life.
This is not a scam in anyway shape or form, they are selling products, FULL STOP!
Why caqnt you see this as a business opportunity rather than a scam, How do you think most of the people at the top got to where they are?
Do you think that the richest people in the world pay tax?
Do you ever consider that you are helping people rather than hurting them?
Do you realise that those who fail miserably at the business are a failure to themself and deserve to loose their money?
How can you not see that making money takes time and effort, you put in what you get out!
Bad news for all the bitches on here, but liberty league, polaris and many others are still trading, does this not suggest itself that it is not illegal?
Its not like their information is disclosed, so why the difficulty in shutting them down?
Open your eyes or shut up and get on with your 9-5, your just another broke hater!
Poor sucker John.
Even polaris’ own website shows that the vast majority of people who get involved with this “business” will never make any money and quite a large number will actually lose substantially. The people at the top got there because they were prepared to rip off those who joined later.
All the positive comments about Polaris are absolutely correct and all the uneducated negative comments are …well… uneducated and negative.
Liberty League…now Polaris Media Group is THE BEST group of positive, caring, business savvy, wonderful human beings we have ever been involved with. The business model is perfect and if you follow the very simple system you can’t help but make a very goooood living. Those who seem to have a problem with Polaris obviously are not following the system and then blame the system. The 9-5’s will always blaim everything apart from themselves as they hate where they are in life but are to afraid to change and therefore everything out of the norm is a scam. Thats ok… we entrepreneurs will employ them….aint life grand
Also….I’m quite surprised how many stupid people can voice an opinion without even a hint of knowledge or a thread of evidence, just heresay, on this subject….and how many other stupid ones believe them…. its chinese whispers on the internet…. LOL
I went to the ACCC website and searched Liberty League and Polaris Media Group and …..search result…0 (zero)…make you think about some of the previous rash comments
Hi Colin why did you change your name to Mr Abundance and ask the same questions you’ve already had answered?
Did you mange to get your lamborghini unbogged, it’s been a few weeks I was starting to get worried.
The very same comments were made when I before I broke the Fair Trading letter, and we all know how that wound up.
Colin (Mr abundance) and his Lambo live in delusionland. I’d love to see a photo of the car with him behind the wheel and Rachel Oliver draped over the bonnet. I bet it would be a cressida with a cheap lamborghini sticker on the front.
On second thoughts, maybe we could see Colin draped across Rachel’s porsche. Judging by the photos on his clone website that would be more interesting.
I did find it strange the lamborghini doesn’t feature on his website. I mean you’d think a sports car worth more then your house would be worth featuring on a page you’re trying to project an image of wealthy lifestyle onto.
Just a little something I found:
Those bureaucrats are the ones protecting the Australian public from this junk. For a business (and this was on an Aussie MLM business blog) to say this is very telling for the business itself and how it deals with Australian trading law.
Found here:
http://thishomebiz.com/blog/polaris-media-group-update/
I wonder how many people actually believe you can make a 6 figure income by sitting on the beach and playing with your kids all day????? People involved in this must be one step up from shonky used car dealers !!!!!! I saw an event advertised to happen on the gold coast in January… only costs $1695 to attend, anyone who pays that to attend a conference on self esteem and entreprenurial skills must be either brainwashed beyond help, or just plain dumb.
“Be a person of Value not Money” – some intelligent person
So reading back on my email that I sent you 3 in the Ante Meridiem, I do admit that my confusion on this issue was displayed.
It was almost like being hit by a bus, I felt sick to the core after realising that I may have spent so much of my family’s money. And yes $2500 odd dollars is a lot of money to my family for one person to absorb. I feel disgusted after coming to terms with the fact, that someone could so grossly neglect their duties towards mankind and engulf and persuade a person into such lies.
I am truly a grateful person to have escaped narrowly burnt, I am so disappointed in myself to have placed my trust in what I thought was successful, young vibrant person like you. I have received Robyn Ashley’s phone calls along with the voicemail. But I am so emotionally drained not to mention having finally slept at 7am that I am unable to even listen to her reasoning’s. I am a God fearing person and I would never do anything that would constitute breaking the law or most importantly have another human being’s trust in me under false pretences. And why should Robyn Ashley have to defend your negligence? I was not enticed into the business by her; it was your success story. Which I have to acknowledge was exceptionally clever marketing on your behalf. You targeted all 6 prime motives of a human being love, gain, duty, pride, self-indulgence and self preservation. If the opportunity was real, I do not doubt for even a second the success I would have achieved. I am the person who writes peoples resume so they can achieve more success. I do not blame anyone for my situation and I do not have anything to be upset about further, except for the load of washing that I neglected to do earlier because I was so caught up in this BS. Oh yeah… and also that I now at least for the next month cannot give my opinion on anything because it most likely would be stupid, but at least my husband’s bravado has returned and the fact that I had such poor judgement on this issue, I won’t even attempt to challenge him.
And have you ever personally thought about the longevity of this business? If the NSW Government shuts down the operation of the business, what then? And do you think it is ethical to portray for a newbie to claim that they have achieved a six figure salary, which I would have to have done to lure other people. Anyway, whatever, the outcome may have been this is reality… This is probably the most unprofessional letter I have written in my life and it may be grammatically incorrect in most sentences but I hope the message is clear quote unquote back the F@$% off!
And I kid you not about my husband working for Channel Seven. And I will take this to the media, today tonight if you or anybody from your organisation attempts to contact me again.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!
Have a Great Day! You TRULY deserve it!
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
It is 30th November I got sucked into this scam last week! After reading the threads on here and the press release by NSW governemnt I was convinced of this scam! this is the email I have just sent to my enroller. EXUSE my french! PLEASE BE AWARE OF THIS GROUP
You would not believe the BS I received under the line ” in my defence”
Read this – if your hubbie is in the media, I really hope that he is able to get the word out there and bring these scumbags out in the open so they get shut down quicker and no more people get burned the way we have been.
And if it makes you feel any better, it’s been years since I got sucked into this crap when LLI first came to Oz. Am so glad I saw the light and got out before I was guilty of putting anyone through what I went throug, but I still feel like a prize idiot for being so stupid.
We live and learn I guess and I sure as hell learned a lot!
Oooohhh!!! I think I saw a little piggy fly past my window! Oh, no it was that little leopard who suddenly changed his spots overnight. Yeah right!!!!
LOL bazel. Man, Polaris Media Group has come and gone… it’s dead. You’ve missed the boat. Most of the leaders have moved onto other scams, and will continue to do so for the rest of their lives.
I’ve read just enough here to get that if someone says something positive about LLI or Polaris… they are labelled “brainwashed”, so basically, all that is allowed on this site are negative things. You aren’t really interested in the truth. But I’ll also say, you sure attract alot of people who are angry and negative.
I’ll just be going now and you can talk negatively about me. Anyone who isn’t a “victim mentality” would see the bias here. Victims will suck this stuff up and believe it as truth.
I know one thing… there was and is “no selling” a person to join either company. Company policy was to allow people to get their questions answered by a third (disinterested party) and then a person decides to join or not.
Lots of people want to make money… but not everyone follows instructions and then those same people complain that they aren’t getting results. They’ll have the same story no matter what company the hook up with. Where ever they go… there they are.
They most definitely won’t see themselves in this post and if they do, they won’t like it. Oh well. Bitterness causes arthritis, cancer, heart attacks and strokes… so good luck.
Oh please. The very fact that you could read positive things about Polaris on BehindMLM totally negates your assertion. Only the spammiest of spammy comments don’t make it past the comment filter.
You sound like a relatively new associate so I guess we’ll see you again in a few months after things haven’t worked out. Well either that or you’ll just dissapear quietly into the night and try to forget the whole ordeal.
Best of luck with your ventures.
Vince and Oz- Polaris is still going strong. Lets check back in 6 months. The blogs has done more good to Polaris than anyone one or anything else. Funny how the more stuff you guys write the better it gets.
There is another seminar this weekend Gold Coast, the ex usually goes , her hubby is back to his normal job , they aren’t going , when you look at the whole scheme, selling really overpriced seminars , sounds a bit rude to me
So John…how did the event go in San Francisco??? I am getting email solicitations from ex leaders (Tony, John, Shannon, ELena, Gene) of LLI /Polaris to join up with their next “opportunity”. At the same time all the hangers on with Polaris have disappeared and are no longer sending their email offers for phone coaching on how to be successful with the “fabulous” Polaris opportunity!! Are you dreaming??
I am just back from o/s and wondered how John Lavenia’s Melbourne seminar on Dec 12 went. It was the one which kept dropping in price til eventually it was free. The link is still on his website http://www.johnlavenialive.com/
John’s brilliant book “integrity is everything” is for sale on amazon. It has had 37 reviews, 36 gave it 5 stars and 1 gave it 4 stars. Nobody gave it 1, 2 or 3 stars. This is a really amazing result for John.
Anthony Robbins, who I would guess pitches to a similar market as John has had 308 reviews of his book “awaken the giant within”. 196 gave it 5 stars, 38 gave 4, 21 gave 3, 17 gave 2 and 36 gave 1 star.
Tolstoy’s “war and peace” also received a broad range of reviews.
I suppose it shows what a fantastic author and man of integrity John is.
Hello, after reading some of the comments here, its got me all skeptical over PMG. Ive decided to stop my membership, but I went online to find the cancel form and I can’t find anything.
I’ve sent an email to my advisor, and I;ll have to wait for her response. I’ve only paid for registration but not bought any of the products. I’ll admit that I got sucked in by the advertising and phone calls, but doing something about it now before its too late is the best thing I can do.
I found out about this company through the Seek website, and got really excited about the prospects. Now I just want out. I’ve learnt that researching before jumping in helps.
Az
CarbonCopyPro?
I have read most of the articles about LLI/PMG, including all of the comments. I wonder if you have some similar threads about CarbonCopyPro and Wealth Masters International?
I know you don’t want to make this blog into an “anti-MLM” or “anti-scam” blog, but some of your readers and contributors seems to be interested. CarbonCopyPro may be “the next LLI” or “the current LLI”. The founders of CCP and WMI was “educated” in LLI prior to 2006.
Threads like these ones are very effective to slow down recruitment, as long as they presents FACTS at an early stage. I can add some of these facts from Norway? They will also need to show up early in Google-search, but they usually don’t have to be “manipulated” to this position.
I do NOT have “inside” facts or information, but some of the information is close to “inside”. I have had lot of dialogues with distributors on forums, discussing if this is a pyramid scheme or not. Technically it IS a pyramid scheme, but it seems to be difficult to prove. I can add some more info later.
Contributions from Norway will make your blog more “worldwide”. 🙂
I put Carboncopy Pro in the same basket as Liberty League. Without having researched either I’m not in a position to state confidently what I think of either.
At this point I don’t have the time to conduct the same level of research that I put into LLI before I started penning articles on them. I’ve moved overseas and most of my spare time is spent learning Mandarin and exploring Taiwan.
My home internet is also unreliable and not really useable, hence the majority of stuff being posted are articles I can write at home with no net research required and then upload later.
I haven’t ruled out writing about either Carbon Copy Pro, Wealth Masters International or Lifepath at some point in the future but for now I’m concentrating on making life here work. Later on in the year I might be in a position to look at them in greater detail and pen my thoughts.
Having said that the initial reason I wrote about LLI was after seeing an ad on television and looking into it myself. By writing my thoughts on different companies I run the risk of turning OSB into a MLM resource which, as you acknowledge, isn’t really something I want to do.
I’ve never been involved in the industry and my interest in the various companies doesn’t really extend beyond creating a platform of awareness if the masses are being exposed to this stuff.
I don’t know if you’ve got Dubli in Norway but from what I gather they seem to be the ‘next big thing’ etc. I’ve had a lot of people contact me about looking into them and giving my thoughts. I think if I did put some time aside for MLM rsearch I’d probably start with them.
It takes a lot of time and effort to read as much as you can on a subject and then analyse and write your own thoughts. Unfortunately I just don’t have the time spare right now.
Oh deary me…
HOW is it better?
Dictionary definition:
“better-
adjective
more satisfactory, suitable, pleasant, effective, or of higher quality etc”
PMG isn’t satisfactory as most people including the ‘leaders’ have left. Same for suitable.
Pleasant? Well….it would be funny if they weren’t such damn scumbags.
Effective? Everyone knows that the shift to PMG was a huge mistake and has seen a mass exodus. So if you mean effective in getting it on the road to closing down..then perhaps.
Higher quality? In the words of Oz- where are my trigger cases? Lol… I forgot, it’s a ring now right? Alot like the “mood rings” you buy from cheap souvinir shops on the Gold Coast….hang on….
Yet another “worldwide”:
When the top earners was leaving LLI they were looking for TOP POSITIONS, in what they HOPE WILL BECOME “the next LLI”. Top earners don’t join a scheme that is alreday “overcrowded”, or where they don’t find any positions near the top. They will certainly try to MAKE Dubli “the next LLI”. Dubli is practically UNKNOWN in Europe, but we probably have a few “Dublidiots” in Norway too. Their claims of success in Europe seems to be bullshit.
http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/25/dubli-another-complex-scam/
I’m not in the MLM-industry. My first contact with CarbonCopyPro and pyramid schemes was in early August 2009, when someone presented it on a supportforum: “How do I get more visitors to my website?” – linking to a website advertising for CarbonCopyPro.
I researched it for 2 or 3 weeks, and found it to be “suspected pyramid scheme”. Initially the research was mainly done on websites in USA to get an “overview” in an established market, but I used a LOT of other methods during the first few weeks. These kinds of research are extremely timeconsuming, at least in the beginning before you know what you are looking for.
I used the comments for a paid review in a blog as a “temporary workstation” during the research, asking difficult questions about the legality and pyramid laws. Someone who has convinced himself that he is a leader tried to answer the questions. He didn’t convince me of anything. “Of course this is legal, the authorities would have stopped it long time ago if it was illegal” isn’t very convincing if you know how authorities work. They are REACTIVE and not PROACTIVE, and they use a lot of time before they react.
I sent a message to both the CONSUMER- and LOTTERY-authorities in Norway August 18th 2009. Consumer-authorities handles “suspected illegal marketing”, but they don’t handle “suspected pyramid scheme”. Mentioning “pyramid scheme” was a BUMMER, it’s more easy (and FASTER) to handle “deceptive marketing”. Consumer authorities in Norway doesn’t handle anything if a company is “suspected pyramid”.
Since then the consumer authorities have released a “general warning” about “get rich scams” on internet, using CarbonCopyPro as their main example. In Norwegian:
http://www.aftenposten.no/pengenedine/article3291989.ece
A “general warning” from the lottery-authorities was released January 12th 2010 – “Warning norwegians about companies in the greyzone”. They mention CarbonCopyPro “very carefully”, but they focus mostly on a different company named Enigro. They say “these new network companies seems to be well aware of the new law (2006)” and “we haven’t decided anything yet”. In Norwegian:
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3460010.ece
I didn’t expect any warning so soon. This “prerelease” probably means they will use a lot of time. I sent them another email shortly after, linking to “LLI declared a pyramid in Australia” and some additional facts.
I moved to my next “temporary workstation” August 22nd 2009 – webforumet.no – joining an existing thread initially created by one of the leaders in CCP Norway. The thread was #2 when I searched “CarbonCopyPro” in Google, and this means someone is reading it when they research CarbonCopyPro. I have posts 12, 14 and 17 as “Unregistred” in this thread, and a lot of others as a registred user. In Norwegian:
http://www.webforumet.no/forum/generell-business/4127-carboncopypro.html
14000 views since August 22nd 2009 (it was 1400 views when i started), and it has STAYED at the top of the searchlist since August. I believe it has slowed the recruitment down by at least 50 percent or more.
“Public awareness” was one of my intensions for the research, but I also use it to get some experience or “insight”.
And YES, this is also a “temporary workstation”, but at least I’m asking WHERE and IF it fits in. I don’t add any new subjects where they don’t fit in.
I learnt a lesson with LLI too, i am thankful I didn’t get any ‘prospects’ signed into it so it was only myself feeling a bit stupid for losing around $1700. I take total responsibility for myself in this.
Interestingly, my Advisor confided her own doubts, and was shocking at supporting me on a call – now, I am grateful for that, I would not have enjoyed knowingly being part of a reason for others to lose money.
I too, embarrassingly, got sucked in & lost money with LLI in 2008/9! If that wasn’t enough, they onsold my details to cheesy spammers.
I still receive 100’s of emails selling Viagra, penis enlargement drugs & more scams!!!
Sorry to hear you lost money Cheri.
Are you sure LLI sold your details on? These days it’s quite easy to get onto a spam/email list if you’re not careful about where you plug your email address into on the internet.
Melinda Spence told me about the practice of buying & selling leads. Based on my personal experience with the integrity of LL upline & leaders, I did make an assumption.
I had not received these emails prior to leaving LLI, and did get them soon after. I also received an email notifying me of your question today, closely behind a Polaris one from Team Dynasty! I would like to be rid of them!
I would like to thank you, Oz, for this space. I let my experience with LLI go very soon after I ditched it and chose to move on, but I did wonder. Many questions have been answered in the past 24 hours.
I can’t comment on Polaris or Team Dynasty but the only time you’ll get an email from my site is if you’ve subscribed to the comments of a particular article. This means that every time a new comment is published you’ll receive a notification email, it helps people keep track of discussions.
No worries. I suspect there’s quite a few people over the years who will be curious. Glad the information here gave you some closure.
Fascinating reading; being in the business of money for half a lifetime before retiring, I was often approached by those who felt that I was a good prospect for entrepreneurial opportunities. Surprisingly, some of these promoters have done exceptionally well and have retired many years before myself on, I am told, well endowed residual income packages.
I am pleased for them. Many others I had the opportunity to speak with in the course of my employment became the providers of this income by being the foot soldiers who paid their dues, bought the products and paid for expensive conference excursions.
Albeit, they eventually left the service dismayed and disgruntled. They saw the light and, at least, started putting their money into basic bank accounts which attracted some dependable interest return.
Very few of these foot soldiers ever received any return at all, except perhaps for use of the product received; expensive product at that!
I am all for small business entrepreneurial activity; Oz needs this as these entities become the employers of ordinary people. It the basis of ‘commonwealth’. And we are the ‘Commonwealth of Australia’.
Have you ever really thought where the majority of the money earned in these ‘opportunities’ goes… offshore perhaps?.
I can recall just over the last few years; Skipe?,Liberty League, E-Verge, Global Verge,Carbon-Copy Pro and Wealth Masters (? promoting a US financial planning package that I think ASIC would be most interested in), etc. Some of these are mentioned in this forum.
I have had clients do well in some the standard MLM’s such as Amway, Herbalife etc. these appear to be well run and do appear to provide a beneficial product.
The reason I am in this forum at all is that I became interested in an ad on SEEK some time ago which turned out to be Polaris in one of it’s forms.
I am interested in forums that are motivating and progressive. I have used SMI (Success Motivation International)almost religiously for many years now and continue to gain great value from this old package. Not an MLM etc… you buy the programme, one time only.
My basic research has brought me to this site. Whether this group (Polaris-LL) are successful in other countries is immaterial to the fact that it is, or is linked, to an entity that is deemed to be unlawful under the NSW laws. End of Story. If it unlawful there, I feel sure it will be so under other Australian jurisdictions. Do not go there.
Look at established opportunities that are lawful. If in doubt, be as prudent as you would be in any other business purchase decision, go to your accountant and to your solicitor for advice. After all, any business that earns $250k per-annum will need their services eventually (Tax Time?).
Sorry for being long winded. Hope my thoughts are of value.
Disclaimer; I am not a legal practitioner; this is not advice; it is a personal opinion within a public form.
Some info about Carbon Copy Pro. I am a member – I had a student membership for 6 months from August 2010 which allowed me access to all the marketing training calls and webinars, but without any ability to actually use the system as a business. This cost me $49 per month – a bargain I felt.
This gave me ample time to asses the company and it’s ethics. And all I can say is I was very impressed, and so I became a full member in February 2011.
In November 2010 CCPro announced a Partnership with David Bach (for the Australians amongst us he is the US equivalent of personal finance expert Paul Clitheroe – but obviously because he is in the States he is somewhat more well known!)
David Bach is the author if the ‘Automatic Millionaire’ book series which are all New York Times best sellers, he was a regular on the Oprah show and is on the US Today program every week, along with many other regular media appearances.
He and Jay Kubassek (CEO of CCPro) joined forces to create the Automatic Millionaire International (AMI) program which was launched last November. Wealth Masters International then cut ties with CCPro as they thought there was a conflict of interest, and have forbidden their members to use the Pro marketing system.
My reason for posting this info is really just to set the record straight on whether CCPro is a scam. A person with the
profile and reputation of David Bach would not risk his life’s work and multi million dollar empire to go into business with a company that is a scam.
There are very many people who have succeded in creating the lives of their dreams with Pro and also many who are still struggling – as in any other business.
Pro does not make any promises, it is a very transparent company. I realised after 6 months of what I count as due diligence that this was the company that I wanted to represent and I am very proud to be doing so.
All I suggest to anyone is that they always do as much research as they can before spending substantial amounts of money. But at the end of the day there is always going to be a leap of faith – I took it and I’m very glad I did!
As per the last contributor – sorry for being so long winded, but I hope I have offered some value.
Hi there Hilary, I’ve done a full analysis of Pro U & Automatic Millionaire over at BehindMLM and concluded that you need to subscribe to Automatic Millionaire to unlock the decent commission ratios to make any money.
With a course price tag of $39,980 annually recurring, that’s one hell of a buy in cost to the opportunity.
As someone who’s in the Automatic Millionaire program, I’d love to hear your thoughts on ‘Pro U & Automatic Millionaire: The $39980 opportunity‘.
Wow… Bach has been on Oprah!
Unfortunately, in the real world that most of us inhabit, David Bach is noted more for the voluminous bullshit that pours from his glib tongue than for any true entrepreneurial skills.
I quote from his book “The Automatic Millionaire” where he talks about leverage in the property market…
Let’s say you are buying a $250,000 home with a down payment of 20 percent. What this means is that you’re putting in $50,000 of your own money and borrowing the remaining $200,000 from a bank.
Since you’ve put in only one fifth of the purchase price, you’ve got five to one leverage.
Now let’s say the value of the house increases over the next five years to $300,000. Given that you’ve put in only $50,000, the $50,000 increase in value means you’ve effectively doubled your money. This is the power of leverage.
Uh… no Mr Bach; you most definitely haven’t “doubled” your money. Basic schoolboy maths will confirm that. And What about the payments that you’ve made every month over those five years? A quick calculation shows that by the end of five years, a $200,000 mortgage (at an average 6% rate of interest) would cost about $58,000 in interest alone.
In fact, for this particular scenario, if you sold the house after five years, you’d be making a substantial net loss.
I’m assuming that Bach is living in this hypothetical property himself, as he calls it a “home” rather than a house. He also assumes that this home is guaranteed to appreciate by a certain minimum amount, but to rely on that alone for leverage in the property market is a risk not worth taking.
This gave me a good chuckle too Hilary. Thank you.
3am last night, filling in some questionnaires, and of course I’d love to work from home with flexibiliity around my family needs, so I fill in another quick questionnaire for homebusiness-finder (see advertisement on this blog/page) and today I am contacted by Polaris Media Group….
So now I’m confused, this page is ANTI Polaris, but the Advertiser is promoting them?????
PS. Thanks for the info, I’ve changed my mind on them already!!
Google Ads will adjust the ads to the topic you’re currently viewing, and to your previous search history. It will try to deliver something to match individual taste. 🙂
This article is from September 2009, when Liberty League International plagued Australia. The program itself hasn’t changed much, it only has changed name a couple of times after the collapse in 2009. The name change in 2009 was because of bad publicity / pyramid scheme warnings.
You will find a list of all Polaris Global Media articles if you click the link right under the headline in the article. Very few of them have been updated with new comments = PMG isn’t very active, it’s mostly active in Australia.
This TYPE of program was more popular before the financial crisis in 2008, around 2004 to 2006. The situation in Australia in 2009 was mostly a “local problem” affecting Australia and New Zealand.
LLI / PMG is the Great Grandmother to seminar based pyramid schemes, founded in 2001. It has an older ancestor, but I don’t remember the name there.
PMG’s business model is “deceptive by default”. Even if pyramid scheme cases can be difficullt to prove, it will fail to meet the other unfair trade practice rules. But it has slipped under the radar since 2009 due to very low visible activity.