TelexFree Court Status – 25th April 2014
The 25th saw the hearing in Massachusetts for a preliminary injunction against TelexFree Faith Sloan, Santiago De La Rosa, Randy Crosby, Sann Rodrigues and Steve Labriola. Further objections and notices were also filed in the Nevada Chapter 11 bankruptcy case too.
As of April 25th, here’s where we’re at.
Motions Filed
1. Objection to Application to expedite hearing of TelexFree’s TRO objection (SEC, April 25th)
TelexFree filed an application to expedite a hearing on their “certain parts of the TRO are void” motion filed yesterday (see #1 on the “Motions Filed” list for April 24th). This motion was filed ex-parte.
The SEC have objected to this application on the grounds that, by virtue of granting the TRO, the Massachusetts court has already nullified the argument that the TRO will ’cause irreparable harm to (TelexFree’s) business operations’.
They SEC are asking a hearing be set as per normal scheduling, so that they might be given adequate time to reply to the motion.
2. Application for expedited hearing for DoJ’s request that a Chapter 11 Trustee be appointed (United States Trustee (DoJ), April 25th)
The Department of Justice have requested that an expedited hearing be set for their application that a Chapter 11 Trustee be appointed in TelexFree’s bankruptcy application. You can read more about the specifics of the DoJ’s request here.
The shortened time is necessary because of the serious nature of the allegations of securities fraud and gross mismanagement contained in
the complaint filed by the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”) against (TelexFree).
The DoJ are asking the motion be heard on May the 2nd, a hearing date already scheduled during which a number of other motions and applications are to be heard.
3. Objection to TelexFree’s proposed interim orders (United States Trustee (DoJ), April 25th)
The Department of Justice has filed an objection to a number of recent applications and motions filed and/or granted to TelexFree. There’s a few interim orders they’re objecting to, so I’ve listed them below along with the DoJ’s arguments against them.
Order Authorizing Joint Administration of Chapter 11 Cases
In this order the DoJ are objecting to the recently made joint administration order (see #3 in the “orders” list for April 24th updates).
This order contains the following statements:
- finds that the Court has jurisdiction over this matter pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 157 and 1334.
- this is a core matter pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 157(b)(2)
- (the) venue is proper in this district pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1408 and 1409
- notice of the Motion and the Hearing were sufficient under the circumstances and that no further notice need be given
The DoJ argue that according to audio transcripts of the First Day Motions hearings, the Court never actually found any of the above.
Interim Order (I) Authorizing the Debtors to Pay Prepetition Income, Franchise and Similar Taxes and Regulatory Fees in the ordinary Course of Business, and (II) Authorizing Banks and Financial Institutions to Honor and Process Checks and Transfers Related Thereto
In this order the DoJ are objecting to the following statements
- finds that the Court has jurisdiction over this matter pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 157 and 1334
- this is a core matter pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 157(b)(2)
- venue in this district is proper pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1408 and 1409
- notice of the Motion and the Hearing were sufficient under the circumstances and that no further notice need be given
- such relief is necessary to avoid immediate and irreparable harm to the Debtors’ business and estates
The DoJ again argue that according to audio transcripts of the First Day Motions hearings, the Court never actually found any of the above.
Interim Order (A) Authorizing Debtors to Pay (I) All Prepetition Employee Obligations, (II) the Independent Contractors’ Fees and (III) the Contracting Agencies’ Fees and (B) Directing the Disbursing Bank to Honor Related Transfers
In this order the DoJ object to the following statements:
- and the Court having jurisdiction to consider the Motion, and the relief requested therein in accordance with 28 U.S.C. §§ 157 and 1334
- and consideration of the Motion and the relief requested therein being a core proceeding pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 157(b)
- and venue being proper before this Court pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1408 and 1409
- and due and proper notice of the Motion having been provided; and it appearing that no other or further notice need be provided
The DoJ argue that the Court never actually found any of the above.
Interim Order Approving Motion of the Debtors Pursuant to Section 105(a) of the Bankruptcy Code , Bankruptcy Rules 1007, 2002(l), 2002(m) and 9007, Local Rule 2002 For Entry of an Order Approving Notice Procedures
In this order the DoJ object to the following statements:
- it appearing that this Court has jurisdiction to consider the Motion pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 157 and 1334
- and it appearing that venue of these Chapter 11 Cases and the Motion in this district is proper pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1408 and 1409
- and it appearing that this matter is a core proceeding pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 157(b)
- and this Court having determined that the relief requested in the Motion is in the best interests of the Debtors, their
estates, their creditors and other parties in interest- and it appearing that proper and adequate notice of the Motion has been given and that no other or further notice is necessary
Again, the DoJ argue that the Court never actually found any of the above.
All four objections are supported by a declaration by Anabel Santos, an employee of the US Trustee, who reviewed audio recordings of the First Day Motions proceeding held on April 17th.
In place of the orders being made, the DoJ are asking that they be made interim orders, to be heard and ultimately decided upon at the May 2nd Nevada bankruptcy court hearing.
Orders
1. Granting of expedited hearing for TelexFree’s objections to the TRO (April 25th)
TelexFree’s “Certain Portions of the TRO violate the automatic stay that comes with a Chapter 11 filing” objection (see #1 under “Motions Filed” in the April 24th Update), has been granted.
The motion is to be heard on May 2nd 2014, along with several other motions, applications and objections.
2. Granting of expedited hearing for SEC’s request to move bankruptcy application to Massachusetts (April 25th)
The SEC’s request for an expedited hearing on their motion to change the venue of the proceedings to Massachusetts has been granted.
It will now be heard on May 2nd, along with several other motions, applications and objections.
3. TRO Interim Orders (April 25th)
A hearing was held in Massachusetts to decide whether or not a preliminary injunction should be granted against TelexFree, Randy Crosby and Santiago De La Rosa. The court has taken this matter under advisement, with an order expected to be made on April 30th.
The court has urged the SEC and Crosby and De La Rosa ‘to resolve the matter’ before the 30th, failing which a decision will be made.
The issue of a preliminary injunction against Faith Sloan and Sann Rodrigues has been moved to May 7th, on which a hearing has already been scheduled to decide whether the same injunction should be granted against TelexFree, Carlos Wanzeler, Jim Merrill and Joe Craft.
Important Upcoming Dates
- April 30th (Massachusetts) – Expected decision on a preliminary injunction against Randy Crosby and Santiago De La Rosa
- May 2nd (Nevada) – Mammoth hearing to decide on SEC’s request to move bankruptcy proceedings to Massachusetts, DoJ’s request that a Chapter 11 Trustee be appointed, TelexFree’s objections to the TRO, the final First Day Orders and ‘whether the interests of creditors and the various debtors are better served by the suspension of all (bankruptcy) proceedings in these jointly administered cases‘
- May 7th (Massachusetts) – Hearing in the SEC case to decide on whether a preliminary injunction will be granted against TelexFree, Carlos Wanzeler, Jim Merrill, Joe Craft, Faith Sloan and Sann Rodrigues
- May 22nd (Nevada) – First meeting of TelexFree creditors
- May 28th (Nevada) – Hearing to decide on TelexFree’s motion for employment of their lawyers
Final Thoughts
The cases and back and forth between the parties and the courts is getting quite complicated, but I think it’s safe to say May the 2nd is shaping up to be a big day of decisions.
As I’m reading it, the Judge is piling up every emergency motion for this date, upon which the DoJ, SEC and TelexFree are going to battle it out in court.
My prediction is that either the SEC’s “venue-change” motion or DoJ’s “appointment of a Chapter 11 Trustee” request are going to be granted. Both of which effectively nullify TelexFree’s use of the bankruptcy court to negate their liability for running a Ponzi scheme.
A third possibility exists, that being a Judge suspend the proceedings altogether. According to the Judge, this is to be decided based on whether or not the bankruptcy proceedings are in the best interests of the creditors. Ignoring the fact that it’s monopoly money that doesn’t exist, how victims of TelexFree being told to suck eggs (if TelexFree are granted Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection), is in their best interests is beyond me.
The outcome of the discussion is far from certain however, as the Judge also mentions the best interests of the debtors (TelexFree). Naturally bankruptcy proceedings are in the best interest of the company as it absolves them of both liability for their Ponzi scheme and the $1 billion dollars in ROIs they promised their affiliates.
One other interesting point is the separation of Randy Crosby and Santiago De La Rosa from the other defendants in the SEC preliminary injunction motions. I initially thought this might be due to a lack of co-operation but according to declarations filed, both Crosby and De La Rosa have refused to hand over financial information and co-operate with the SEC (as previously ordered by the court).
Faith Sloan didn’t sound too co-operative in the same declarations (she hung up on the SEC when they called her), and there’s been no word on Sann Rodrigues. It could be the other way around, with these two co-operating with the SEC, however given TelexFree’s determination to abuse Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings to get away with securities fraud, this seems unlikely (Rodrigues and Sloan have been grouped together with TelexFree, its owners and inner-management).
One aspect of the problematic nature of so many motions, objections and applications being filed can be seen in the request for an expedited hearing on TelexFree’s TRO objections on April 24th. The SEC filed their objection to the expedition motion on April 25th, with a Judge later that same day approving TelexFree’s initial motion.
Whether the Judge saw the SEC’s objection before making the ruling is unclear (there’s no mention of it in the order). That means there’s a possibility things might change early next week.
Things are getting a bit messy but hopefully today’s update will make the current situation a bit easier to follow.
Telexfree keeps breaking the law, now getting in trouble with IRS. Telexfree sending 1099 with false incomes of victims.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/04/25/telexfree-inc-sends-alleged-victims-parting-shot-potential-tax-liability/zIIHhlnVMxAaNGEBwzodhJ/story.html
How annoying. I’ve hit the Boston Globe 10 articles a month limit. I imagine I won’t be the only one this month.
(Ozedit: Chrome incognito seems to get around the limit)
Looks like the Dominican Republic has some competition in TelexFree management’s escape plan..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/telexfree-alleged-pyramid-scheme-shut-down-in-u-s-sets-up-in-canada-1.2622163
I knew it would come the day to blame it on Canada!
LOL 🙂
They have more lives than a cat.
That’s because they are clones.
I declare May the 2nd, as May Day for telexfree.
The more time the indicted and their inner-group have, the higher the possibility they are shifting money around. Given the fact that all these legal proceeding will likely take months (a la proceedings in Brazil), they might all be buying the time they need to escape.
Brazil has no extradition policy if Brazilian citizens go back home. Unless other criminal charges are filed on each individual and their immediate network, these guys will like walk under BK law (chapter 11) and retain enough money to make the company legal under MLM laws and then fold because they have no real marketable product to sell anyway.
Then the close the doors, creditors in the U.S. get a little money back, affiliates will see ZERO money, or 1 cent on the dollar max, and the ringleaders walk away with their money and retire.
Hopefully there is more dirt to uncover that pin the culprits with felonies, tax and wiring fraud, conspiracy against the U.S., immigration violations, money laundering, tax evasion, while collar crimes, organize crime, theft by deception and other charges, otherwise, they will simply slip away when all this court stuff and the lawyers have battled it out.
This is very amusing, looking at Anabel Santos declaration with transcripts from the 17th Apr hearing at Nevada, we can now understand what generated the “news” being spammed everywhere later that day by Telexbots. It seems “his neighbors dog who has fleas that supposedly attended the tax hearing” actually was there!
Just compare the hearing with the spam (e.g., telexfreecanada.net/tag/telexfree-hearing/).
This actually is true. In the transcript you can perceive the judge being generally favourable to TF, with TF lawyer even saying to the judge at some point that he went “his way”.
We now know that more than the eye has caught was decided in that 17th Apr hearing. Specifically, they were authorized to do some payments, subject to the SEC TRO (and recommended to meanwhile “find a way out of the [SEC] wood”).
Indeed, I could count 9 emergency motions filled by TF 13 Apr. Of those, it seems quite possible that 5 have been effectively addressed by the judge at this 17 hearing. This was initially misinterpreted by Telexbots as “against Telexfree”, but corrected in later versions of the spam as requests from TF (with each of those 9 points being described in a fantasious way).
From Anabel Santos transcript, we can see that TF tax payments were actually discussed, and that the judge approved a number of tax payments by TF, stating his concern with the additional problems and complications to the company that would arise if they are unable to pay them (being currently under the TRO).
This seem to have been misinterpreted by Telexbots as some “ops, sorry Your Honor, we forgot to pay those, we’ll never do it again, promise!”
These tax payment approvals were quickly interpreted by Telexbots as “See? We are legit! Only legit companies pay taxes!”. Quite a ludicrous consideration, given that the reason Al Capone went to prison was precisely tax evasion.
The weird tale about five judges deciding 3 against 2 Telexfree is not a Ponzi scheme is hard to explain, but it may possibly root in something like
It seems to me from seeing the figures being posted here that Telexfree had enough money to at least pay their promoters back when they filed for bankruptcy. There are many people who got on early in this that made their money back and then some, plus others who made a lot of money.
So the questions is – why couldn’t they have paid the promoters who didn’t recover their investment in TF, not the ones that did and continue doing business ? I understand that millions came into the company just before they changed to the new comp plan, surely they had enough to at least pay their investment back.
Or did they do this only to escape SEC fraud charges that were imminent and seek protection that way. I’ve also wondered how TF was getting fresh money when most promoters were signing people up from their BO with money they had already made. In this case, you can see where the scam was probably going to fall apart as the early promoters were owed a ton of money by TF but they were cashing out as new promoters came in but TF wasn’t seeing any new capital coming in, hence the Chapter 11.
There’s probably some truth that they were running out of money but they knew that it was going to happen anyway at some point. The chapter 11 parachute was in place and ready to be executed at any time. I think in their crooked brains and under the disguise of “restructuring” they’ve found a graceful way out of the mess and in the process come off to their promoters (victims) like they were really trying.
Because all those recent millions had come precisely from “promoters who didn’t recover their investment in TF”. Millions come, millions go, the balance is zero.
Therefore you have a zero balance respecting all those recent millions, but you still owe many millions more to the people who joined/invested since January or so, many of them with total loss. There’s no way out of a Ponzi scheme.
No they don’t.
Think about it. 2 years, only sold over 1 million in VOIP. Let’s be generous and call it 2 million. Let’s even say DiskAvontade gave VOIP service to TelexFree for FREE. 2 million profit. (all ridiculous, but… wait)
How many million do you think have been paid out already to all the promoters? We know at least 1 million went to Sann Rodrigues (unless you think he was lying all along “First Millionaire TeelxFree”)
Do you think other people for months BEFORE 2014, have recieved at least one million altogether?
Of course they did. They got a lot more than 1 million.
That means they were paid with money from OTHER promoters.
If they gain money, other must lose money. Money don’t grow automagically.
So far we can only account for maybe 50 million (or so) of TelexFree assets. Plus or minus ten or twenty million.
That’s out of 300+ million paid in by promoters, according to SEC. It’s not hard to guess that the rest of the money had already been paid out to the early promoters. There really isn’t much left of TelexFree.
A typical Ponzi scheme will often payout 50% to 75% of income to the promoters to encourage them to talk up the scheme and recruit even more people to join. Some even enjoy backroom “commission” if they recruit more.
Oz and Chang.
I refound the Chinese (?) characters I previously mentioned finding in the KCC Telexfree Bankruptcy Press Release.
I downloaded and then opened the Press Release file with Adobe Reader,(not Microsoft Reader or some other) checked the properties and saw that the PDF Producer is in Chinese characters.
Press Release no longer available on their website.
Want to get a screenshot? I can tell you at least if it’s just garbage or actually mean something.
For the first time, this weekend, the Canadian media publishes a story about Telexfree opening an office in BC-Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/telexfree-alleged-pyramid-scheme-shut-down-in-u-s-sets-up-in-canada-1.2622163
The response of the affiliate website “Telexfree Canada” was almost immediate, and it has been shutdown: telexfreecanada.net
Telexfree Canada facebook page is also frenetically deleting all negative comments, which have appeared following the story, and trying to play the “we are only victims” card:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=266608940187941&id=147904882058348&stream_ref=10
@Kasey
Uh?
http://www.kccllc.net/telexfree/document/1412524140413000000000005
I’m using whatever the default Win8 reader is, no properties options so I can’t confirm.
Sent to Oz via “contact” link. Hopefully he will forward to you.
Apparently it contains information about the engine that produced the file.
I was referring to the fact that millions came in the last 2-3 weeks before the plan changed on top of the millions they already made. Sure they had enough to at least pay the latest promoters. It takes 14 weeks to get your money back. They had at least that long to figure out how they can continue to do business without filing Chapter 11.
This is what many people thought they were going to do as TF announced 2 weeks prior, pay back all promoters who haven’t received their investment amount yet. Not the ones that already made a profit.
Don’t forget that it takes 3 weeks to be able to draw money from your positions, so all that money that came in before the new plan changed is now with TF. They didn’t pay out one cent of all that money.
If they really wanted to they could’ve found a way to keep it going at least for a while longer without attracting the attention of the SEC and DoJ with their bankruptcy filing and the damage to their name with all the negative media. They could’ve shut down on their own and restructured if that was their true intentions or cut a deal with W. Galvin about paying back all promoters. According to TF, the new comp plan was 100% legal so all they had to address was the old comp plan.
My point is that they had enough money to keep it going but decided to go this route which was their plan all along.
Monies from new investors are used to pay old investors. The “14 weeks reserve” is extremely hypothetical, it doesn’t reflect the reality.
Maybe you should take into account that Brazil froze bank accounts containing about eleventy million dollars of Telexfree/Ympactus money almost a year ago. Whoever supplied those funds has not been paid back.
To suggest that Telexfree should have made whole Massachusetts residents, or those in the United States, at the expense of their Brazilian, (Rwandan, Madeiran, Dominican) counterparts is a political and legal non-starter even if Telex had enough free cash to do so.
I think you have put the cart before the horse here. In my view this bankruptcy filing is the financial fraud equivalent of a medieval thief dragging himself into a church and hoping for “Sanctuary!”
The SEC and Massachusetts were well aware of Telexfree’s methods (hard to miss considering what’s been going on in Brazil) so to me it looks like TF filed bankruptcy primarily for the purpose of preempting, disrupting and thwarting the impending SEC/MA actions.
That’s the SEC/MA view as well, according to Court filings.
I don’t think the DoJ and SEC were involved before the filing. It was the SEC of MA, W. Galvin that was after them. You could say that it was reason enough to do what they did but it would’ve been easier at that point to negotiate a deal without the “now” nationwide negative coverage of TF’s filing.
Now with what they did, they look real guilty whereas before they only were exposed to the people who knew about TF, not the general public. It’s out there big time now, cat’s out of the bag, genie’s out of the bottle and any other metaphor you want to use here.
I think they screwed up doing what they did, now they looked much worse than before in everybody’s eye. If you ask any promoter who lost money in TF, they’ll tell you that they would’ve taken any other deal, maybe a 2 year payout or anything else to recover their money instead of this.
And like I said, maybe this plan was in place all along, who knows…
The Bankruptcy was file late Sunday night April 13 and both the SEC and Mass filed complaints on Tuesday April 15th. On the same day the SEC obtained a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against seven or eight individuals as well as Telexfree and its affiliate companies.
The TRO was filed under seal (not made public) in order to keep the principals of Telexfree unaware so to better secure assets that were identified in 31 (!) different banks.
The TRO was filed under seal and was not made public until on or about the 17th. After obtaining the TRO on April 15th officers of Homeland Security of the FBI (not Massachusetts Troopers) raided the Telexfree offices and surprised (as they intended) CFO, Craft who tried to steal away with $37 Million in cashiers checks and a personal computer.
Those are the facts as per filings with the Court. Based on that it is virtually impossible for me to believe that the SEC was not tracking Telexfree for an extended period of time. A TRO can not be obtained without substantial credible proof.
If the shoe fits…
Actually they are. You forgot that Bill Galvin stated specifically that other agencies asked him NOT TO ACT so they can continue tracing the assets. When TelexFree declared bankruptcy, he can’t wait any longer.
I can’t find the reference now, but I know I read it.
Found it
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20140415/News/140417784
Of course they would but its not in the cards. The SEC indicates they have not yet been able to trace the whereabouts of $300 Million. How is Telexfree supposed to pay anybody back in two years with that size of hole in their balance sheet. If the SEC can’t find it, can you really convince yourself that Telex intended to pay back the investors with money that was hidden that well? Even in a hundred years?
Given that TelexFree only took in 1.2 mil over TWO YEARS on sales of 99TelexFree, and that’s revenue, not profit, and you know VAST majority of people will have left so revenue will be drop like a rock off a cliff…
It’ll be a DECADES if they can get back their money if TelexFree can be, overnight, turned into a “real” and “legitimate” company. And I’m not even talking about the Ponzi payout of 1 billion.
Telexfree leaders in Brazil (UPLINER’s) are panicking because of the form of the SEC (Massachusetts)… Lol!
They are not only the leaders of Brazil and Brazilian’m not put the link on my page on facebook leaders in the United States aki ta all crazy I have had death threats for y’all have notion.
They are spreading all over Facebook and their blogs that people should not fill the form because it is a “trap” and that SEC is not to be trusted. LOL!
And it IS a trap… To catch those uplines. 🙂
Does anybody know where can we find that SEC form? Is that one of kcc “proof of claim”? We want to inform as much people as we can.
Thanks for this page, it is the only trustable place where im finding true information about telexfree.
Who is going to go to prison or deported after all is said and done? How deep is the scam under EACH indicted promoter?
No doubt San Rodrigues is the ‘head’ behind TelexFree. I bet that he is at the top of each new country opened and most downlines flow directly to him at the top.
Top Brazilian promoters have already bailed out of TelexFree and are promoting other MLMs.
I found some information here:
patrickpretty.com/2014/04/25/bulletin-massachusetts-securities-division-issues-telexfree-complaint-form-commonwealth-secretary-william-galvin-publishes-brochure-on-how-to-steer-clear-of-pyramid-schemes/
Here’s the direct link:
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/InvestorComplaint/telexfree.aspx
It is true that a generic Bankruptcy Proof of Claim Form may be downloaded from the KCC website. However, it is NOT an SEC form and the website is NOT run by the SEC. So what is KCC?
KCC is a private company that provides claims processing and noticing services for bankruptcy proceedings all across the United States. Why is this relevant?
Its very possible that this private company will NOT be handling the claims. They DO NOT have final approval to do so. What should you do?
Slow down. Don’t spread misleading information. Wait for confirmation. The last thing you want to do is “file and forget it” with the wrong company.
This link is NOT for making a claim for lost investment. Its designed to collect the personal experiences that investors had with Telexfree.
Here’s the questions from the form:
They’re asking for information about the investments, VOIP use or sales, your position in the network, other info.
I can specify some examples for that “Other info”, but people must use their own brains there.
* If people had multiple accounts, identify it.
* If people generated fake customers to qualify for binary commission.
* If people paid directly to sponsor, rather than to Telexfree.
* If people reinvested some of the payouts, buying more AdCentrals.
* If people paid internal invoices from the back office (VOIP, AdCentrals)
* e-Wallet transactions?
I’m trying to identify the flow of money here. SEC already know that those details exist, but it wasn’t clearly described in the complaint. I’m trying to separate between INTERNAL TRANSACTIONS and real monetary transactions.
Multiple accounts can probably be described under “Which types of packages?” rather than under “Other info”.
Reinvestment and internal payments are partly about the same, i.e. people used payouts to the back office to generate new accounts and buy more AdCentral.
Fake customers and internal payments are partly about the same, i.e. people generated customers to qualify for binary commissions, paying directly from the back office.
I gave him the link to Galvin’s complaint form, not the KCC proof of claims.
i.e. don’t call the cops!
And what was it about them having before, said that the government in the US was so good, so much better than the US, eh?
OOps, that should have been “so much better than Brazil”
He asked about an SEC Form and the bankruptcy proof of claim on the KCC website. The link you provided has nothing to do with either of those things since it links to a State of Massachusetts complaint form.
The SEC form is probably the Galvin form?
I interpreted it in context with the other posts here, where other people were talking about a SEC form. Post #29 pointed in that direction.
Post #29:
Telexfree leaders in Brazil (UPLINER’s) are panicking because of the form of the SEC (Massachusetts)… Lol!
Post #31:
They are spreading all over Facebook and their blogs that people should not fill the form because it is a “trap” and that SEC is not to be trusted. LOL!
Post #32:
And it IS a trap… To catch those uplines
Post #33:
“Where can we find that SEC form?”
“Is that one of the KCC proof of claims?”
“We want to inform …”
The State of Massachusetts Division of Securities (“MA”) has filed a complaint asking the Court to prohibit Telexfree from selling unlicensed securities in the State. The link M_Norway provided connects you to the Secretary of Massachusetts website. It permits you to provide information that may be used as evidence by Massachusetts. It is NOT for filing claims for loss of investment.
The United States Security and Exchange Commission (“SEC”) “seeks a permanent injunction and disgorgement” based on Telexfree’s “fraud, deceit, or deliberate or reckless disregard of regulatory requirements, which has resulted in substantial loss….to other persons.”
Should the SEC get what it seeks, Telexfree may not be afforded bankruptcy protection and in that event KCC might not remain the claims administrator. So wait.
Your interpreted it wrong and your just going to confuse people.
Not even close.
Remember a strong factor in the Madeira connection is the thought that TF was a taxfree income as many people here think tax is the government stealing from them (though they are not calling for cuts in bloated gov services), so they are not shouting about their TF losses for fear of drawing the taxman’s attention
There is little doubt that Massachusetts is collecting information with a purpose in mind but there are a lot of jilted investors out there who will want to file complaints. Naturally the petty promoters do not want anyone to complain and report the bullshit they have been pulling on people. F%K ’em.
Note that the form is about INFORMATION, not about “proof”. You can post information relatively safely, but it must be TRUE.
If it had been about “proof”, they would also have asked for documentation and some specific details about transactions.
The information will most likely be used to stop the bankruptcy case, e.g. to show that TelexFree didn’t have any significant VOIP sale. They have just “cooked the books”.
They’re asking for phone numbers to be able to contact people. Some people may probably be contacted and be asked for a signed statement.
It’s better to give them GOOD information rather than recommending MANY people to post info. I tried to identify some points.
Of course Telexfree’s lawyers are expecting to get their piece of the pie. They have already let the court know what the bill is for now and it’s alot of pie.
If bank accounts etc… of all the ponzie punks have been frozen then how do they pay “their” lawyers? Or bills, or mortgages or even groceries?
“You’re going to confuse ME” is probably more correct than “confuse PEOPLE”?
Gon didn’t specify which SEC form he was asking for. The only SEC form mentioned in the comments was the Massachusetts SEC form. The same SEC form was mentioned by Patrickpretty (a link to it).
It’s clearly about investigation, not about proof of claims:
It will most likely be used to stop the bankruptcy. SOME people might be interested, so it isn’t really important if I have misinterpreted the questtion. The focus should be on whether the information is RELEVANT.
The document in .PDF format can be viewed here: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2014/comp-pr2014-79.pdf
The SEC Litigation release can be viewed here: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2014/lr22974.htm
Will the lawyers have to wait to be paid?
Please quit arguing out of ignorance.
There is no Massachusetts SEC. The SEC is the United States Security and Exchange Commission headed by Chairman Mary Schapiro.
On the other hand Massachusetts has an Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, SECURITIES DIVISION headed by Secretary Francis Galvin.
The link you pulled from Patrick Pretty is to an electronic Massachusetts Complaint form. It has nothing to with proofs of claims, the US Bankruptcy Court proceedings, KCC, or the SEC.
That’s an interesting question. The BK lawyers have already received a huge retainer and if they can defeat the SEC action and keep Telexfree in BK will be able to draw their compensation from the gross assets of the estate.
If this gets tossed out of BK it will be because the SEC has virtually won their case. At that point I think the BK lawyers would have to disgorge most of their retainer and the defendants would capitulate to a permanent injunction and disgorgement of whatever they have.
If there is a criminal action the opinion you cited implies the defendants could pay their attorneys with “untainted” funds. Where untainted funds might come from here is hard to say but my gut tells me that someone out there has enough “untainted” money to supply a gift to their friends in need.
Document 2 pretty much tells the story perfectly. After reading that, how can the SEC or DoJ not seek criminal charges and put these guys in jail is beyond me.
Your link is to the SEC COMPLAINT…. NOT a “form” For God sakes men he is asking about a proof of claim form and thinks its something that comes from the SEC instead of the Bankruptcy Court.
Explain that to Citizen in post #29, to Diego and Old Man in post #31 and #32?
They were probably talking about the same.
NOTE:
I didn’t focus on small details, e.g. “there’s no Massachusetts SEC”. I tried to identify what the question really was about, and tried to give an answer to that. Very few of us are actually using “Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, SECURITIES DIVISION” in normal dialogues.
I do apologize, but you have to realize I’m perhaps not as clairvoyant as you apparently are.
My reasoning was, there is no point linking to a “proof of claim” document when there has not yet been any declaration of bankruptcy, ESPECIALLY when said “form” is a generic document which eventually may not be applicable anyway.
A point I would have made, once the post linking to the documants was released from it’s “waiting for moderation” status.
All that is known, with any certainty is what is contained within the SEC and Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth,Securities Division documents.
Everything else is complete speculation.
Telex filed for and is in bankruptcy… but even so I agree with you that it is premature to file a proof of claim because the bankruptcy may get dismissed within a short tiem and there may be a completely different claim process than what KCC anticipates.
Still it is true that KCC has placed the Bankruptcy Proof of Claim on their website and people seem to know about it and want to take a look.
What they may not know is that the Form is generic and used in bankruptcies in every case and court throughout the US and there is nothing unique about it. They can get it by doing a google search or visiting any federal bankruptcy court website.
Unless and until the claims period opens they should not be able to file a claim even if they had a form.
You were answering Gon.
The claims period seem to be opened, the Court declared it was accepting Claims of Proof until 90 days after 22 May, and they should be sent via mail post to KCC.
It has not stated anywhere that they should be sent after some given date, as far as I know. Indeed, there’s already 1 PC waiting there. It was filled 15 Apr., just one day after the bankruptcy filling was made public (Apsan is innocent on this).
I wonder if submitting a Proof of Claim before the 22 May creditor meeting entitles you to be present at that meeting as Telexfree creditor?
That’s why you rarely know what you are talking about.There is a MAJOR difference between the SEC and the Mass Securities Division.
One has national and international reach and the other is basically local. One obtained a TRO, seeks an injunction, and disgorgements, sent in agents and is actively contesting the Bankruptcy and the other is putting up a website that really only applies to Massachusetts residents.
If those are small details then you have the brain of a colossus.
When that “Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, securities division” uses material hosted in “www.sec.state.ma.us” , it is easy to understand why people refer to it as Mass SEC. If it is correct or not, I don’t know.
Why do you say it only applies to Massachusetts residents? It even has a field to fill the State, and I presume they accept from outside US as well.
Isn’t it fair to expect that such investigations can and will be escalated to federal SEC, or joined with the ones already in course, so that it’s worthwhile for Telexfree victims outside Mass. to fill it?
“sec” in this case is an abbreviation of “Secretary” not “Securities”
LOL thanks for confirming it, I feared it was just that as soon as I’ve hit the “add comment” button. But it confused me, indeed. 😀
So Gon would have used “Office of the Secretary of Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Security Division”, if he really had asked about that?
The point was that the others used “SEC (Massachusetts)” and “SEC”, not which post I was responding too.
Your ideas are too “constructed”. None of us can know for sure what he really was asking for, since he didn’t specify which SEC form.
I made a qualified guess, supported by those 3 comments before his post, supported by search results (Facebook). I prefer my interpretation rather than your’s. But you can clearly keep your own interpretation.
It beats me how someone could hear about the Bankruptcy no earlier than the 14th (Telex filed late on the 13th) and then mail a proof of claim that was received by the 15th. That’s pretty fast work. I think the entry is a dummy for test and set up purposes but who knows. Personally I would not file until I was sure this whole situation was going to stay in Bankruptcy because I would not want to do everything twice.
I am sorry I have not seen this. I only saw that the claim window ended 90 days after the first Creditor’s meeting, which has been scheduled, but which may be rescheduled or extended, or not occur at all under certain conditions.
Creditor’s meetings are open to all creditors. You need not have filed a proof of claim to attend.
Maybe it doesn’t. I am sure anyone can chime in but my guess is that the Secretary is looking for the saddest most exemplary tales of woe and deceit among all the various Complaints, He will then compile them as exhibits in evidence for the court.
Since he represents the citizens of Mass I assume that he will be most interested in information supplied by Massachusetts residents and would prefer testimony by them over all others.
I don’t think it needs to be escalated as the SEC is already on board.
News article indicate that Mass was asked not to file against Telexfree because the SEC was busily doing their own investigation which included aspects that Mass could never have handled on its own (tracing international money flows for example) They did not choose the timing but both filed on the 15th because TF filed BK in Vegas on the 13th.
If you are suggesting that information gleaned from filing a Massachusetts complaint may find its way into evidence presented by the SEC then yes it could happen. If you believe that the state of Massachusetts is going to be piecing together a picture board showing the organizational structure of Telexfree then I suppose it could happen.
In the end I think there will be a few “choice” stories culled from the many thousands of complaints that will be used as exemplars in the SEC case.
Because pursuing both cases simultaneously seems redundant, I would expect Mass to cooperate where appropriate (supplying evidence and exhibits) but let the SEC do the heavy work. Mass may mostly file joinders in support. (What are known as “me too” filings)
You can piddle off in any direction you want.
I’m pretty sure they will accept information from others too. But the complaint form is about investigation. The focus should be on giving correct and useful information, about investment vs. VOIP sale/purchase.
People shouldn’t file the complaint if they don’t feel comfortable with the method. I BELIEVE it will be used in the bankruptcy case, but it will probably be used for other parts of the case too.
I found some “Terms and Conditions”, but they seem to be some “standard T&C” posted on every page.
There is no SEC form. Haven’t you figured that out YET?
So you believe people have panicked because of a non existing form, and that Gon was asking for the same? Your ideas have gradually become weirder and weirder, that’s why I decided to stop the discussion.
“Does anyoneknow where to find the SEC form?”. You can try to tell him that the form doesn’t exist, people have simply panicked for no reason.
“Is that one of the kcc proof of claim?”. You can decide the answer there yourself.
I don’t know what panics these people. I did not reply to them. I replied to Gon and I gave him my best answer. Your Massachusetts Divsision of Securities is the same as the SEC bullshit just wasted space.
Ufffff guys so much information! Thx a lot to all…
Well what i was looking for was some way to recover money invested in telexfree if they loose the trial (is it a trial really?) because nobody really knows whats gonna happen.
Last i heard was they established in BC canada but who knows what are they planning to do. Thanks for this page again, have to tell you guys the info shown here may be the most trustable right now…
Show me the SEC form. Link me to it..
If you can’t do then STFU
c’mon .. calm down ladies…
What are you? the middle child.
In May 2nd? No, no, it’s just an hearing. But they will decide a lot of important things there, like:
-No more bankruptcy court?
-Bankruptcy court goes to Boston?
-No more Wanzeler, Merrill, Macmillan and Craft running Telexfree?
-Is SEC TRO invalid? (LOL good luck on this one…)
-Can we (Telexfree) please void all contracts we currently have with our promoters?
and some other smaller things.
What people call “Massachusetts SEC form” or “SEC complaint form” or “SEC form” is this one:
sec.state.ma.us/InvestorComplaint/telexfree.aspx
It’s the same link I posted in post #35, and copied parts of into post #38.
Your link is not to an SEC Form. STFU.
Hoss and Norway: you guys are becoming bloody annoying. Stop hijacking the comment section.
While the justice system decides what to do with the crooks:
I wonder how much this is going to auction for.
I agree Totally sick of this BS
Here’s something factual.
Note on the claims form, the court ordered nothing be filed until after the creditor meeting.
From the 24th April court update:
I don’t get why such a fuss is being made over the form now.
i am trying to fill my prof of claim. i had 9 packages shall i make a claim for each package or just one? thanks
I haven’t looked at the claim form but I imagine if it was under 1 account you’d claim all the packages under that account.
At some point all of this information is going to get cross-referenced with TelexFree’s database in any case, so I wouldn’t worry too much.
I think its because there was an idea going around that creditors needed to obtain an SEC form on the KCC website so that they could file a Bankruptcy Proof of Claim with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Security and Exchange Commission.
Apparently this panicked some promoters on Facebook who recognized a “trap” when they saw one and urged their downlines not to file complaints online.
Now you know as much as I do.
You should not even be doing this yet. You’ve got more than three months before the Claims Bar Date. Are you in a rush to be the first one to do it wrong? Wait, there may be instructions.
Well by all means file the Securities Division form (the SEC already has access to your TelexFree information, so there’s nothing to hide).
The notion that any of this is a “trap” meanwhile is rather absurd. TelexFree aren’t paying anyone back, so there’s nothing to trap anyone on. Anyone suggesting the SEC needs additional input from affiliates to build their case obviously hasn’t read the complaint and subsequent filings.
I’m not sure to what extent the direct sales between promoters, which constituted the vast majority of money transactions outside of the US, and at least to some extent inside the US, are visible in BO data. I’m not sure if SEC can really know this reality without the complaints…
I’m not sure how the shadyness is going to play out yet. I don’t think a claim form that can’t be independently verified (you bought investment positions directly from your upline) will result in anything.
Maybe if they can verify it by checking the movement of positions through the backoffice, but then they still need to recover and verify the money was paid.
It’s a nightmare either way and I certainly don’t envy the SEC. All the more reason meanwhile why the penalties here need to be severe.
As for the forms to fill out
There are current 2 forms
A) a Bankruptcy claims form at KCCLLC
and
B) an information form at Massachusetts Secretary of State
Regarding A)
Do NOT fill it out yet. Bankruptcy is NOT EVEN FINALIZED. There are NO INSTRUCTIONS. If you fill one out now you’ll likely do it wrong. You can afford to wait a few more weeks.
And this is going to Bankruptcy agent, NOT to SEC or Mass state.
Regarding B)
This is going to Mass State only. If you have information, you may as well fill it out now, and yes, it will be used by law enforcement to prosecute the perps.
They probably need it for some reason, or else they wouldn’t have bothered to put it up in the first place.
I mentioned some factors in post #38:
TelexFree / Joe Craft have probably “cooked the books” to come up with acceptable statistics for VOIP sales, to slip under the regulatory radar.
Input from real users will show THAT it has been done, HOW it has been done, WHERE it has been done, etc.
TELEXFREE CLAIMS
TelexFree claims to have “millions of VOIP users” (or hundred thousands of active users), “millions of VOIP minutes”, “millions in revenue from VOIP sale”, etc.
THE REALITY
Most VOIP customers were fake customers, generated on a monthly basis to qualify for binary commissions from sub accounts / downline.
Most VOIP purchases was done by using internal funds (Ponzi points) to pay for the invoices = no monetary transaction = no business revenue or profit.
Many AdCentral purchases were paid directly to the recruiting sponsor, while the sponsor used internal funds to pay for the invoice = no monetary transaction between new promoter and TelexFree = no REGISTERED business revenue or profit.
That system was highly ORGANIZED to benefit people high up in the system, e.g. they could transfer internal Ponzi points downwards in the system and get real money in exchange from newly recruited promoters (via the downline).
THE REALITY – CREDIT CARD TRANSACTIONS
CC transactions IN to TelexFree August 2012 – March 2013:
202,000 transactions AdCentral Family, ~$287,500,000
48,000 transactions single AdCentral, ~ $13,872,000
26,300 transactions VOIP subscriptions,~ $1,315,000
Note:
The amounts are my own calculations, based on the SEC complaint page 21, point 50.
THE BANKRUPTCY CASE
Credit card transactions alone isn’t good enough evidence to get the bankruptcy case denied. The court will need much more solid evidence than that. Input from real users are actually needed.
TelexFree has cooked the books and manipulated data to prove real business activity based on VOIP sales. They have also concealed revenue generated in the system.
INPUT FROM REAL USERS
There’s a need for factual information, e.g. about how people have paid, what they have paid for, when they paid and to whom (TelexFree or a promoter).
People should separate between internal purchases (invoices paid using back office funds) and purchases paid with real money.
The Mass-Sec doesn’t ask for information about payouts or withdrawals. People shouldn’t add that information either, other than to clarify what the internal purchases are about.
BACK OFFICE FUNDS != MONEY
Back office funds have NEVER been about real money. It doesn’t matter what the payouts are called, e.g. “Commissions”, “profit share”, “Hong Kong dollars”, “TelexCredit”, “$ US dollars”, “€ Euro”, “JubiBuck$”, “VIP points”, “Bonus” or whatever. It will always be NUMBERS ON A SCREEN rather than real money.
It doesn’t matter how the funds are being stored, e.g. as a “withdrawable amount” in a back office, in internal e-Wallets, or if the funds are invested in “contracts”, “AdCentrals”, “Units”, “VIP points” or whatever they can be invested in or stored as.
THIRD PARTY E-WALLETS == FUNDS MADE AVAILABLE
Withdrawals to third party e-Wallets generates a taxable event. You can be TAXED for the amounts you receive to an e-Wallet, but you haven’t received the money yet. The funds are only made AVAILABLE for withdrawals, but they’re not in your possession.
If the funds are made UNAVAILABLE again during the same tax year, it’s no longer taxable. That rule should apply to assets freeze cases, e.g. to third party e-Wallets frozen by a court order.
People should separate between the different types of funds / payment methods / investment methods.
THE MASS-SEC FORM
How much money did you invest? Only real money.
When did you invest? Separate dates if more than one.
How many packages did you purchase? Only the ones you paid for
Which types of packages? Here you can specify details
What is your user name? MAIN user name, if more than one account
Did you use the VoIP program? Yes or No
How many VoIP programs did you sell? Only the ones SOLD, don’t include the ones purchased by yourself here.
Who introduced you to TelexFREE?
Other information.
Some additional info to the Mass-SEC form …
DATE SYSTEMS
Americans use: Month / Day / Year mmddyyyy 04-29-2014
Europeans use: Day / Month / Year ddmmyyyy 29-04-2014
Military date: Year / Month / Day yyyymmdd 2014-04-29
The differences between American and European date systems will typically cause confusion. The military date system doesn’t cause the same type of confusion, it will be identified and translated correctly by computer programs if entered into a form.
Try to avoid confusions, but HOW people do it will be up to themselves to decide.
haha someone is PMSing..
I have tested the Mass-Sec form, tried to put in data for amount invested, when invested, types of packages purchased.
Here’s one example:
********************************************
How much money did you invest? $7,125
When did you invest? 2013-12-21; 2014-01-14
How many packages did you purchase? 5
Which types of packages?
1 Adcentral Family, main account, 2013-12-21, wire transfer, $1,425
4 AdCentral Family, 4 sub accounts, 2014-01-14, Credit Card, $5,700
1 AdCentral Family, 1 sub account, 2014-01-21 (internal funds)
1 AdCentral Family, 1 sub account, 2014-02-07 (internal funds)
1 AdCentral Family, 1 sub account, 2014-02-21 (internal funds)
1 AdCentral Family, 1 sub account, 2014-02-28 (internal funds)
Total: 9 AdCentral Family
The initial $1,425 investment was paid directly to my sponsor FastCash21’s bank account.
**********************************************
I have simply tried to identify the different purchases correctly. If people have paid directly to sponsor, they should identify that too (to avoid misunderstandings).
What did you put in this box?
Other information
Please provide any other information that you think may be helpful to the Securities Division:
I didn’t put anything there, I focused only on the investment part.
I can produce an example:
People must use their own brains anyway. I managed to put the most important information about my hypothetical investment in 9 AdCentral Family under “Which types of packages?”.
Separating real money and internal funds actually made it much easier to sort information.
I was wondering, how would Telexfree continue doing business if ipayout has stopped doing transactions for them? (that is if everyone loses there mind and lets them continue doing business)
Also, will we hear more about ipayout and if there is an investigation into their relationship with Telexfree?
OMG – just checked out a FB page and there are people posting in the last few hours who believe that Telexfree will still be in business on the other side of this.
I know that people don’t like facing the truth, especially when their money is at stake, but I am shocked that people are still in such denial.
Based on past experience, long after Telexfree is permanently closed and those behind it prosecuted, there will STILL be people hoping and praying it re opens and reminiscing about the “good ol” days when Telexfree was paying.
@Oz … what would be the reason for TelexFREE to be online and available for access to tb BO if they can’t operate?
is the TRO still up? put in simple ..
is anyone getting a dime from TF ?? Sorry it may sound stupid, but i cant see a reason for having the website up (faking business activity) if you cant conduct business…
…
“The Debtors (as defined in the Motion) entered into various enrollment agreements with over 700,000 parties allowing these parties to utilize and/or promote the Company’s services. A vast majority of these Counterparties are located overseas and have not provided Debtors with a physical mailing address, making traditional mail notice virtually impossible by Debtors on a timely basis.”
Therefore:
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that when the Debtors are obligated to notice the various Counterparties pursuant to the Bankruptcy Rules, the Debtors shall be authorized to serve the Counterparties via (a) electronic mail at the email address provided to the Debtors and/or (b) through the Back Office.”
Got it! thanks man!!
Hey guys!
The court just granted the Ex Parte Motion of the United States Trustee for Order Shortening Time for Hearing on the United States Trustee’s Motion for Order Directing the Appointment of a Chapter 11 Trustee.
The date and time will be… Yep, you guessed it: May 2nd at 9:30 AM.
kccllc.net/telexfree/document/1412524140429000000000001
My personal experience is that the telexfree website is up, but when I log in, I see the bankruptcy notice and cannot proceed any further to the Back Office. So, that is basically useless to me.
I’m curious if others are actually able to access the BO and how. At any rate, I seriously doubt that anyone is getting a dime from TF (except for the money that is being stashed away by TF management and top promoters).
In addition to having the website up for communicating with affiliates as stated in comment #107, I think that another possible theory is that TF is allowing retail activity (ie. sales of VOIP) to continue to show that this is their main focus.
But, in reality, as you say they, I think TF is just faking business activity and continuing to do its usual shady practices (which nobody really minded 3 months ago when they were making money).
In terms of the TRO, I am curious myself. I know that there were some extensions of the TRO that were granted, but I don’t know what the latest is on that topic. It is a little confusing since the defendants are doing separate defenses.
@Dark
Wow your fast. : )
Thanks for the new news.
I’m not sure if that counts as a “dime”, but people can activate their VOIPs in their client BO, as it is. So, yes, they are still conducting business, but not breaching the TRO, which was only about the Ponzi part.
Yeah. The slimmed down version of the TRO is that named individuals and the company can not sell or promote what the SEC alleges are illegal securities…. and the company can’t spend or access funds.
VOIP is not even mentioned.
The SEC is attempting to convert the TRO into an injunction which if approved will apply to virtually ALL promoters everywhere. In addition to enjoining sales and solicitation of the alleged securities, the SEC requests the Court order all earnings in the promoter’ s possession be immediately returned to the registry of the Court until final determination on the merits of their case.
Those who say the SEC has been ineffective or slow do not understand the burden that is placed on the government. They have to make a compelling showing to get the TRO, an even stronger showing to get a preliminary injunction and then be prepared to win a full blown trial to obtain a permanent injunction.
New cookie at KCC… Seems that grotesque Telexfree motion trying to void the Boston TRO in the Nevada court possibly will not even make it to May 2.
Citing a pre-1998 law to make their case? What do they took that Landis judge for, an UniversoMLM team member? Seriously, what were they thinking? :O
As a result of the Warrant, the Debtors’ business operations were temporarily
halted. Thereafter, the Debtors quickly utilized their IT department to rebuild the Company’s
servers by utilizing the “cloud” and certain servers located outside of Massachusetts. See id.
26. Due to the Debtors’ immediate efforts and the servers located outside of
Massachusetts, the Debtors’ VoIP service, website, and Back Office3 are operational on a limited
basis and the Debtors are proceeding with business operations and continuing to proceed with
their reorganization efforts.
I don’t understand who in their right mind would want to pay 49.90 for a piece of crap VOIP service, specially now that it does not contribute for their ponzi ROI.
I have found some more info about the Mass-Sec complaint form. The info is general, for all types of investor complaints forms. The information was too general to be useful, but I copied 2 of the points.
sec.state.ma.us/InvestorComplaint/
(posts #100 and #102)
None of the information I tested as examples were really “sensitive”, so I would have ignored the second point if I had to send in a complaint form.
“A complaint must be true, complete and absolutely accurate”.
I partially ignored that in my description of VOIP purchases, I used “appr. 36 VOIP subscriptons”. I’m pretty sure that would have been accepted, because that information wasn’t about anything important.
Important parts
Important parts are all those which involves monetary transactions. That’s why I clearly separated and listed the different TYPES of transactions so they could be identified as different types.
* Wire transfer, paid directly to my sponsor’s bank account.
* Credit Card, paid directly to Telexfree.
* Internal funds (non-monetary transactions).
Important additional information
The complaint form was clearly focusing on 2 specific aspects:
* AdCentral investments
* VOIP sale
It’s generally a good habit trying to answer what people really are asking for, so I included some information about my personal (hypothetical) use of the VOIP service. They didn’t literally ask for it, but I used my own knowledge about the program to include it.
The form didn’t ask for detailed information (e.g. bank account numbers), so I didn’t include any either. It’s not a “proof of claims” form, so there’s no need for that type of information.
People must use their own brains anyway, so I didn’t try to come up with any exact methods.
This Stu Macmillan declaration certainly has a lot of new data…
Via PPBlog: Montana issued cease and desist to TelexFree
http://patrickpretty.com/2014/04/29/bulletin-montana-halts-telexfree-state-says-firm-supplied-incomplete-inaccurate-information-and-continued-to-operate-after-claiming-it-had-pulled-out/
For only $70.000 and 34 promoters they issued a C&D… And here we are in this disgrace of a country with tenths of thousands of promoters and millions $$ scammed, and the government completely oblivious to this case. 🙁
I’m going through the new docs now, will have a 30th update out soon.
Where have Carlos Costa and Steve Labriola been?
MIA already? LOL
Yes, Montana has a pretty low threshold for issuing these C&Ds. Zeek hit a bump in Montana first, IIRC.
The interesting thing is to note the dates:
* July 2013 – TelexFree sought for registration.
* August 2013 – Montana asked for complete information.
* October 2013 – Montana received very incomplete information.
* October 2013 – TelexFree informed that it had ceased operations there.
The restrictions didn’t completely prevent TelexFree from operating in Montana, they only made it more difficult to operate openly. But they did it 4 – 6 months before Massachusetts launched a probe.
somebody have an epiphany?
You can’t expect the same question from me. I will only ask questions people realisticly can be believed to be able to answer. 🙂
I have always identified it as a complaint form, e.g. in post #39 (“I gave him the link to Galvin’s complaint form, not the KCC proof of claims“). It has probably been repeated several times, directly or indirectly in many different ways.
I don’t expect any “Eureka! I’ve got it!” this time either.
It’s more like “I cleaned house, like they hired me to do (and what the court would probably want me to do. Can you let me continue or must you appoint someone to do what I’m going to do any way?”
Labriola’s still there, and there has been no attempt by TelexFree to distance itself from the promoters charged thus far.
IMHO, MacMillan is just going through the motions of “I didn’t know they were such crooks, not my fault”, and he’s covering his own arse as he don’t want to be accused of aiding and abetting alleged criminals.
He has to say he opposes the government’s move of venue and appointment, though IMHO, bankruptcy trustee is almost a certainty, given MacMillan’s actions. The question is will it be in Nevada or Massachusetts.
Of course, there’s also the possibility that “firing” of Wanzeler is just an act and this is just elaborate charade for the court and SEC and Mass SecState, to oppose the trustee appointment and change of venue.
Probability, IMHO, is low as that Runge guy and MacMillan are unlikely to ruin their reputation by participating in this sort of behavior for little gain. Both have already receive their pay and can rightfully file a claim against the estate for services rendered.
There is little reason for them to attempt to restructure a Ponzi scheme.