Talk Fusion terminate top ranked affiliates, lawsuit filed
Before we go any further, I’m just going to go ahead and say it: paid video communication services today are entirely redundant.
I mean really, $125 plus $20 a month ($365 annually) for video email? Is this some kind of joke?
Quite obviously, nobody is paying Talk Fusion thousands of dollars for video communication services. Considering what’s available today for free in this niche, not even by a long shot.
–BehindMLM Talk Fusion Review (August 2013)
Meet Minh Ho and Julie Campagna. Together they own and operate MJ Rich Media Corp. and joined Talk Fusion in 2007.
During their time with Talk Fusion, Ho and Campagna achieved the rank of “Presidential Blue Diamond. Not an easy thing to do, considering they claim to be the only Talk Fusion affiliates “out of millions” to ever qualify.
Earning roughly $2 million annually, Ho and Campagna were suspended as affiliates on October 10th.
Talk Fusion terminates distributors based on the selective and arbitrary application of the one-sided, unfair, vague, and unenforceable terms and provisions contained in the Policies.
On December 10th, Ho and Campagna’s affiliate status with Talk Fusion was formally terminated.
Now, in a lawsuit alleging fraud and injustice, the gloves have come off. And if Ho and Campagna are to be believed, how Talk Fusion is being operated and managed is cause for serious concern.
Filed in the Eight Judicial District Court of Nevada on the 22nd of December, Ho and Campagna’s complaint challenges the termination of their Talk Fusion affiliate membership.
Of note is that the complaint was filed despite Talk Fusion’s Distributor Policies and Procedures demanding that, in the event of ‘any controversy or claim arising out of relating to the Agreement, or the breach thereof‘, that Talk Fusion affiliates ‘waive all rights to trial by jury or to any court‘.
As the couple put it, Robert Reina (aka Bob Reina, right), Founder and CEO of Talk Fusion, terminated the couple after they failed to provide a business loan to Mark Genovese.
In the complaint, Genovese is described as a friend of Reina’s.
On or about October 7, 2014, (Ho and Campagna) decided to seek counsel regarding their rights with respect to Reina’s most recent efforts to extort payments from them.
One of Reina’s friends, Mark Genovese, a falsely placed high-ranking Talk Fusion distributor, was supposedly in default on his home mortgage in the approximate amount of $20,000.
Reina demanded (Ho and Campagna) pay Genovese’s mortgage all without any agreement from either Reina or Genovese that they were to be repaid for doing so.
Rather than relent to Reina’s demands, (Ho and Campagna), on or about October 7, 2014, provided Genovese with a written loan agreement specifying the terms under which they would be willing to lend him money to pay his mortgage.
A copy of the written loan agreement was also subsequently provided to Reina.
After Reina became aware of (Ho and Campagna’s) intent to have Genovese repay any loan they may give him to pay his mortgage, Reina … shut off Plaintiff’s Talk Fusion account and suspended their business.
After a series of letters requesting that (Reina and Talk Fusion) activate (Ho and Campagna’s) account, lift the suspension on their business, reimbursement for all the loans and other expenses paid on Talk Fusion’s behalf, and reimburse them for income lost during the suspension, Plaintiff’s were constructively terminated on October 24, 2014.
In terminating Ho and Campagna there was no mention of Genovese or the loan, with Talk Fusion instead accusing the pair of violating the company’s Policies and Procedures. Among other thing, Talk Fusion claimed Ho and Campagna were cross-sponsoring and making income claims.
Ho and Campagna assert these allegations are “false”.
Furthermore, they claim that the loan to Genovese was only the latest in a long-standing series of requests made to them by Reina.
Over the years that (Ho and Campagna) were distributors at Talk Fusion, Reina unilaterally decided to force (Ho and Campagna) (and many other top distributors) to make payments to other parties on behalf of Talk Fusion, including Talk Fusion’s lease payments, and travel and marketing expenses.
Additionally, Reina and Talk Fusion forced (Ho and Campagna) to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various charities and to make loans to Reina’s friends who never had any intent to repay the loans.
These various forced contributions, made under duress and the threat of termination, total over $600,000 and have never been reimbursed to date.
I don’t know about the whole “forced to donate to charity” angle (let’s not pretend any such instances weren’t likely milked for marketing), but using your affiliate-base as a piggy bank for personal loans and covering company expenses isn’t on.
As the above claims being made under duress, here’s apparently what happened to affiliates who dared challenge Reina and Talk Fusion’s requests:
When (Ho and Campagna) and other distributors would protest (Reina’s) actions … (Talk Fusion) would modify the distributor’s compensation plan … in such a way that it would reduce the distributor’s income, often moving other distributors to ranks unearned and manipulating downlines to benefit Reina’s friends.
Delving deeper into the Talk Fusion rabbit hole, Ho and Campagna go on to provide another example (in addition to Mark Genovese), of another of Reina’s friends receiving preferential treatment within the company.
Talk Fusion’s representation to the public and to its distributors … that it follows the Policies and Procedures is false.
Any distributor who asks Reina about Talk Fusion’s Policies at any time is faced with the prospect of having his or her entire downline income cut-off.
An example of this is when Reina decided he wanted to elevate Cedric Penn, a new Talk Fusion distributor and Reina’s personal friend, to the rank of “Grand Blue Diamond”.
This was accomplished by moving approximately half of MJ Rich Media’s downline that (Ho and Campagna) worked hard to build, to Mr. Penn, thus elevating him to a status rank above hundreds of thousands of Talk Fusion distributors.
Upon questioning Reina’s conduct, Ho and Campagna allege their account was suspended. Only after agreeing to surrender control of their downline, claiming the decision was made “out of fear their distributorships would be terminated”, did Reina restore Ho and Campagna’s account.
While the core of Ho and Campagna’s complaint revolves around the October incident that lead to their account being terminated, the pair also directly challenge the official reason(s) Talk Fusion claim they were terminated for.
Labelling Talk Fusion’s Policies and Procedures as “one-sided, unfair, vague and unenforceable”, Ho and Campagna argue
Talk Fusion terminates distributors … based upon the selective and arbitrary application of terms and provisions contained in the policies.
The policies are an unconscionable contract of adhesion. They are unenforceable in their entirety because of Talk Fusion’s overwhelming bargaining power (and) they are not freely negotiated.
Despite (Talk Fusion’s) prohibition on income claims, Talk Fusion practices the opposite and employs a custom and habit of violating its own policies and procedures by making income claims a standard practice on its website, in magazines, at conventions and in advertising.
The non-compete provision of the Policies that Talk Fusion relies upon to summarily terminate distributors constitutes an unreasonable restraint on trade in violation of the clear public policy in the State of Nevada.
Not only does Talk Fusion assert illegal restraint on trade provisions to control its distributors, but it unilaterally modifies its policies on a periodic basis to diminish the commissions of the distributors and to impose ever more restrictive provisions against the distributors.
The modifications to the policies are done unilaterally by Talk Fusion without the knowledge of consent of the distributor and without any consideration paid to the distributor.
This has the effect of lowering the monies that the distributors were promised when they first joined.
If a distributor complains about this Talk Fusion practice, he or she is summarily dismissed and his or her income cut-off.
No specific examples of this are provided in the complaint, other than Ho and Campagna’s own personal account of the events leading up to the termination of their Talk Fusion affiliate account.
Citing eight causes of action, Ho and Campagna ask that the court
- declare Talk Fusion’s policies unconscionable, unenforceable and void in (their) entirety
- order Talk Fusion to pay compensatory damages in excess of $10,000
- enforce any applicable statutory penalties on Talk Fusion
- order an injunction prohibiting Talk Fusion from engaging in “offending conduct” as outlined in the complaint and
- award any additional “exemplary and punitive damages”
Noticeably absent in Ho and Campagna’s complaint is explicit proof provided by exhibit. There’s a lot of claims made but nothing substantiate to back any of them up.
Ho and Campagna simply present what they’re saying as fact.
Should the matter proceed, one would hope they have documented evidence of every one of the claims made in the complaint, complete with supporting exhibits.
That aside, what a mess!
On one hand you’ve got a company clearly out of control on the management side, wheeling and dealing to the detriment of their affiliate-base at large.
Testament to this is the fact that the only reason I know about this lawsuit is because a BehindMLM reader reached out to me about it, expressing that they were ‘worried about my business if these kind of things are taking place‘.
The kind of garbage Ho and Campagna are accusing Bob Reina and Talk Fusion of should not be going on in any MLM company.
Worse still, Talk Fusion are a certified member of the Direct Selling Association.
Talk Fusion is more than just a mission statement. It’s a business philosophy that actually includes ethical business practices (almost unheard of these days).
Talk Fusion is one of the select few MLM companies granted membership in the prestigious US Direct Selling Association (DSA).
Where the hell has the DSA been in all of this?
On the other side of the fence you then have affiliates Ho and Campagna. Yes, they’ve apparently been through a lot of bullshit but the timing of their lawsuit speaks volumes.
By their own admission,
Talk Fusion uses a pyramid style downline.
Talk Fusion entices distributors to join its sales force through the offer of the “MLM Promise”.
The MLM Promise is a representation that if a distributor works hard and builds his or her downline, after a few years the distributor can enjoy a carefree lifestyle by living off the residual commissions generated by his or her downline organization.
Talk Fusion knows that this representation to lure in distributors is a ruse.
Noticeably absent is the mention of retail sales, begging the question – out of the $2 million Ho and Campagna claim to earn annually, how much of that was earned via the sale of Talk Fusion products to retail customers?
And further still, would they have filed this lawsuit had they of not been terminated? Or would Ho and Campagna to this day be engaged in the promotion and operation of what they themselves all but acknowledge is a pyramid scheme?
I mean seven years, really?
With Ho and Campagna’s complaint only recently filed, a reply from Talk Fusion has yet to surface.
Considering Ho and Campagna are the company’s top affiliates, granting them intimate knowledge about the company’s practices and behind the scenes conduct, Talk Fusion’s filed response should make for one heck of an interesting read.
Stay tuned…
Update 13th October 2017 – Under some pretty suspicious circumstances, Minh Ho and Julie Campagna’s lawsuit against Talk Fusion was withdrawn and dismissed in mid 2016.
Interesting. We have long suspected (and confirmed in some cases) that a lot of “top affiliates” are basically inserted near the top of the reverse tree (“falsely placed” according to complaint here) and even Kevin “The MLM Attorney” Thompson picked up on that… 4 years ago. Apparently nobody has listened, and this has the potential of blowing this fraud wide open.
KT’s video can be seen here:
Ho/Campagna are going for big money here. They are basically betting on Talkfusion will pay them to go away quietly with a couple hundred K under the table. TalkFusion can’t afford to have them airring all the dirty laundry in public, or this is going to ruin MLM and DSA’s “reputation”
TalkFusion can countersue for defamation as well as make up some trumped up charges of fraud (i.e. Ho/Campagna did something to ‘game’ their commission fraudulently) for leverage. But I doubt they’ll do it. It’s easier to make them go away quietly with some hush money.
If this drags out in court and discovery stuff is made public TalkFusion is pretty much done for, and DSA is going to get tar and feathered.
last year in russia, talkfusion filed defamation charges against VKontakte which owns russia’s most popular social network of the same name, which hosts an audience of over 40 million users daily.
talkfusion alleged that VKontakte blocked accounts of affiliates promoting talkfusion on it’s social network, and called the company a ponzi scheme.
the court threw out talkfusions case.
does the DSA know about this, and did they try to do some diligence, as to whether talkfusion is legitimate or not?
looking at the products of talkfusion alone, one has to wonder what it’s doing under the DSA umbrella.
rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20130605/267677089.html
And he specifically mentioned when “Top Earner joins company xx” is being marketed on Ted Nuyten’s website, when companies are trying to build up some false “aura of momentum” they don’t really have. 🙂
Pretty safe bet here. The binding arbitration clause is the usual rug these issues get swept under but the lawsuit brings the policies and procedures contract into question.
That and other claims made (forced loans) probably fall outside the scope of that agreement. Unless the allegations are whole cloth fabrications Talk Fusion would be foolish not to settle before trial.
And just to amplify Oz’s point made above, Minh Ho and Julie Campagna took offense to how the company treated them but had no qualms in profiting handsomely from what they admit was a “pyramid style” “ruse.” Perhaps that’s why they’re leading their “Power Profits Team” over to Dubli.
Depends on how much dirty laundry they think Ho/Campagna have on them.
It’s possible TF will claim the two events are completely unrelated and this is an “extortion attempt” by Ho/Campagna.
There are and always will be companies that are having bad people behind them.
How in the world can you trust company that would cut your hard earned commission out just for not doing what they want you to do?
Once you make million in commission they are looking for any way to cut you off. What a scammers.
I can’t speak on the validity of the allegations but having been a member of Talk Fusion, I do believe there could be some truths amongst their allegations. Especially the ones about false promotions.
What I do know is Minh and Julie Ho were two of the hardest mlm workers I have ever seen.
The courts hates these type of cases. Move on both parties.
Talk fusion was a good enough company to pay them over 8 millions dollars commission.
They have some fault here in this case it’s called cross recruiting should have just communicated and kept ego in check.
Why are all the commenters here pretending or thinking this is the first time something like this might happen. All MLM companies hide behind the P&P’s as well as arbitration clauses giving them the opportunity to screw you at will.
This is one of the main reasons that MLM is NOT a business for the distributor – just the company. The DSA backs these crooks and so does many others, wrongfully so though.
Tens, if not hundreds, of the top leaders in this company – Grand Blue Diamonds, Blue Diamonds, Diamond Elites, left in 2014. All for the same reason – company’s cheating on the Compensation Plan, positions sold to newcomers, personal pressure on how to conduct their business!
Let alone how many TF associates got their credit card info stolen sometime ago and when complained had their accounts terminated. The future of this company is at least uncertain…
It was a case of “Lost in Translation”.
Let me explain, in Russia there is no term such as “Ponzi scheme”, it is almost not known. The correct translation of “Financial Pyramid” would be in fact equal to a “Ponzi scheme”.
MLM/recruiting – product based schemes are called just “pyramid”. The word “Financial” applies to ponzi ones.
The term “Financial Pyramid” came to wide used after 1994, after the collapse of massive MMM ponzi and hundreds of other banks and investment funds which were pure ponzis.
The law in works which will give harsh punishments to organizers and promoters is called “The Act on Financial Pyramids”.
i worked in the corporate office of Talk Fusion in Brandon Fl for 2 years as an It help desk technician. There’s soo much more shady things going on the Minh and Julie have mentioned in their lawsuit.
For instance Bob’s fiancé Charlotte was given an account with a large doe line that had been inactive for years. A clear violation of the policies and procedures that state you cannot sell your own business or transfer it.
Also in 2013 the servers were hacked and hundreds of thousands of associates personal data including socials and card numbers were compromised. We were told to deny deny deny for months until we were given a statement approved by Bob’s lawyer and even then we were told to deny to all foreign associates.
Until this server weakness came to light myself and 7 other it help desk technicians had access to view every associate and customer’s social security number home address and mother’s maiden name, whether those accounts were active or not we had access to this information.
I should also mention that at least 3 of the IT HELP desk technicians had criminal backgrounds. I have witnessed Bob Reina screaming at and demeaning top leaders including Minh and Julie.
A point brought up in the article questions how many of Minh and Julie’s sales were retail sales. I can tell you that retail sales are almost nonexistent in Talk Fusion.
Last I checked Minh and Julie did not have a single active retail customer.
@Anonymous
I suspected as much. I wonder what it would take to trigger a regulatory investigation and confirm as much then.
I spoke to the owner of Talk Fusion several years ago about ripping me off and he proceeded to threaten me with what he was going to do if I didn’t stop with me many requests for a refund for terrible service and marketing lies.
The guy is a piece of work, and I hope he is indicted and convicted for wire fraud.
MailVU is free works well and simple to use with no strings attached
Well, Penn is not a new distributor to TF.
He came on in ’10, flopped made rounds at other companies- who weren’t buying, eventually making his way back to Reina, presumably because Reina had already given him ramp-up, and I’m guessing, may have threatened suit.
Also in ’10 is when Ming & Julie started blowing thru the ranks. Mark Robinson was, at the time, touted as being TF’s front runner, however it was M&J who began receiving all of the publicity once TF implemented “instant pay” around October of that same year.
At that time, M&J stated that they had just lost everything and were starting over. It sounded convincing and reasonable considering the economic times.
The allegations in M&J’s complaint sound on point. I would have to agree with the commenter who questioned whether the loyalty and silence over illicit double standards remained with M&J had their down line not been cut.
Yes, I would presume, however, Penn is known for -as his victims call it- “stealing” downlines (historically Zija). I do question why M&J would agree to provide loans to Reina’s friends, instead of Reina providing them himself.
Did he blow his excess donating $500K to the human society or animal rights organization? And doesn’t TF own the building that houses the company- like Reina alleges? No!
M&J’s ax is a Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice over the balcony, shakedown .. or rather, a Cedric Penn shakedown via BR.
I imagine he told Bob to “get them outta here!” On the otherhand, Reina’s mindset may be that you have to pay the piper to play.
He has boasted how- while on the force (oh, you didn’t know he was a cop?), he and his partners would sell their MLM pills out of their cop car trunks and they would make their detainees purchase their products in order to buy their freedom.
I guess we’ll see how this plays out, but a word to M&J .. I would restructure quick- like another recession is about to hit because this is a wrap.
Do you think that- even after a ruling in your favor, TF would ever welcome you again? And further, why would you subject yourselves to that treatment?
And here’s another tip: Don’t ever give these companies personal info like your social or mother’s maiden name.
WTF do they need your mothers maiden name for? .. unless some nosey CEO is background checking and possibly soliciting your info to enforcement agencies.
Instead, set up an TIN with the IRS so that you may legally use it in place of, and to keep your personal & confidential info just that! If you share it with everyone, its no longer p&c.
Additionally if you can, set up a postal mailbox to use for your business correspondence and deliveries.
These simple adjustments will add a couple of layers to assist in protecting yourself (ID Theft)- you know, in case their systems are mysteriously hacked again!
Retail sales? ha ha
I bought the product intending to use, was promised I could learn how from the tutorials. Tutorials were so old, they were totally useless. I was ultimately told “train yourself”.
They would NOT refund my money, but reversed all upline commissions. Now the bastards HAVE sued me.
Reina will burn in hell for how he cheats people. (And it would not surprise me if a disgruntled employee or cheated customer put his soul there pretty soon).
Mildly interesting, Talk Fusion Grand Blue Diamond Cedric Penn filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy last month. Among the debts he’s attempting to liquidate are a $50K loan from MJ Rich Media Corp. (Mihn Ho) and a $170K breach of contract claim from Jeunesse. Both appear to be in active litigation.
Also listed among unsecured creditors is Sisel International for what is described as a July 2015 “Writ of Garnishment served on Talk Fusion Inc.” for $588K. Why this would be listed as a personal debt of Mr. Penn is unclear.
But we do have documented evidence that MJ Rich Media Corp. has given loans, coerced or otherwise to at least one of Bob Reina’s friends.
scribd.com/doc/291995592/Bankruptcy-Filing-Of-Cedric-Penn-Of-Talk-Fusion
So uh what, they gave Penn a Grand Blue Diamond position and he naffed it?
Hardly surprising seeing as the position wasn’t earned but still, sucks to be caught up in the mess as an unsuspecting downline.
I PERSONALLY ENTERED THE FIRST 1500 or so applications into the computer sitting right in one of the offices at Talk Fusion corporate.
Was there from the very FIRST MEETING… PRE- LAUNCH… so many true stories I can tell from the times we were locked into the office for meetings we were forced to attend or lose our position many of us often reduced to tears we would be locked out of our back offices if we disobeyed the almighty Bob’s wishes…
we were forced into courtrooms hitting the distributors against one another costing many of us valuable friendships that some of us have just now begun to repair.
Later, my entire inside leg was stripped from underneath me probably given to the gentleman being referred to in this ad as Bob’s good friend.
I had over 1,200 distributors in my downline every single one of whom I had personally spoken to, done a three way call with, or help to set up their system in their computer over the phone.
I even remember talking to Peyton Manning who was not in my downline helping him set his video email up over the phone.
I was often there to help other people because I was very good at the technical part of it when it was new. We all ran webinars in fact I created the first one and then they modified it and made it a corporate thing.
Bob like being in control of everything and quite obviously still does.
When my inside leg was stripped away from me it was put in a different part of the company entirely to benefit another person. The growth of that leg would have completely paid out my Pay leg.
That money was stolen from me.
Because I had chosen not to participate on a daily basis and in those required training sessions any longer due to the fact I was not making the money I should have.
I am NOT shy and saying that I work harder than or as hard as any distributor in that company especially in pre launch and for the first couple of years.
I made a combined total of $22,000. Yet I was considered one of the top ten distributors in the company showing the plan all over the east coast including trips that I paid for myself out of town to build this company.
I gained nothing in the end. Oh boy could I tell you some stories I saw it all from the inside.
I don’t know if it is too late, but I’m MORE RHANHAPPY TO HELP WITH THIS LAWSUIT.
OH… don’t know if it is relevant, or if he’s even still part of the company, but STEPHEN MAROFSKY and his ENTIRE downline were moved from my inside leg to promote someone else’s growth.
I don’t know because as soon as it happened, I blocked Stephen from my contacts, and just moved on figuring one day, someone would go after this guy who is basically just running mlm the way it suits him best, as if there were no laws or guidelines.
But they are still repping TF in Vegas right now so wth is going on here??
Still “Repping”….please explain…
I worked at Talk Fusion corporate office for less than a year between 2013-2014 and holy shit the horrors I witnessed while I was there you wouldn’t believe!
How Bob Reina is not in prison and how that company is still in business is nothing short of a miracle!
That place is a loony bin run by members of what can be described as a cult. I hope someday that abusive psycho son of a bitch Bob and his minions get what they deserve!
I am currently dealing with this man and his family. I knew something was up but I was not sure what until I began a search online.
Now that I know who I am dealing with, it explains a lot…I am glad I left when I did. BTW he has a new MLM called QuiAri.
Not new, BehindMLM reviewed QuiAri in 2019: https://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/quiari-review-maqui-berry-shakes-and-energy/