Clarification: Limitations of the Lahoti Committee
From what I gather many people have been trying to get in touch with former Justice Lahoti due to the fact that details about the process have been kept secret by all involved.
When you’re dealing with 1.2 million members, the largest ponzi scheme to ever hit india and hundreds of millions of dollars, tensions often run high and there’s a lot at stake.
After allegedly voicing his disapproval at being contacted by Speak Asia panelists, the company’s senior panelists and AISPA demanded Speak Asia’s members cease all attempts at contacting Lahoti.
Subsequently since the November 28th four-hour long sitting of the committee, little has been revealed about what actually went down.
Due to his standing as the person who filed the first First Incident Report (FIR) which subsequently prompted a whole host of government agencies to launch investigations into Speak Asia, Navniit Kkhosla was able to recently speak to Lahoti on the phone and clarify a few things.
Kkhosla was also gracious enough to share what he and Lahoti discussed with us. The following is Kkhosla’s own transcript of what he and Lahoti discussed over the phone (in green), along with my own commentary and analysis.
1. The matter before Lordship is mediation between the petitioners and Speak Asia and only the parties in WP (Cvl) 383 / 2011 would be permitted to participate in the proceedings and no information about the proceedings or the dates of hearing would be circulated publicly.
The important message conveyed here is that, due to reasons that still remain unknown, Lahoti is part of the restriction of information regarding the hearing not being circulated publicly.
From his standpoint I can’t really see a reason why Lahoti would care either way, and I can only speculate that it remains in the best interest of Speak Asia and the other parties involved to suppress information about the Committee meetings.
In the absence of any reason he himself stands to benefit from a closed-door committee hearing, for whatever reason Lahoti seems to have gone along with this.
2. That any body interested in being impleaded would have to go to the Supreme Court for the same before he can attend the mediation proceedings.
This doesn’t really mean much apart from the fact that last I remember Bahirwani mentioning AISPA was looking to get impleaded into the Lahoti Committee.
This no doubt not co-incidentally seems to co-incide with Bahirwani publicly asking for financial support from Speak Asia’s memberbase.
Whether AISPA has approached the Supreme Court as of yet I don’t know.
3. The mediation process before Lordship is in no way connected to the present criminal investigation being carried out by the EOW, I Tax, ED and there is absolutely no bar subsequent prosecution.
This is the big one out of the four, as it clearly clarifies that the Lahoti Committee action in no way affects any of the criminal investigations nor subsequent criminal legal action taken against Speak Asia.
I’ve been saying this for as long as I can remember but due to an absence of common sense, Speak Asia’s senior panelists have been pushing the line that the Supreme Court action and Lahoti Committee will somehow abolish any standing criminal investigations and/or pending criminal action as a result of those investigations.
4. The present mediation proceedings are for the panelists who have filed the case and all the related matters would be examined.
Not as important as point 3. but interesting nonetheless as just yesterday Solomon James (a panelist involved in the Lahoti Committee) put out the following update on Facebook;
GOOD EVENING FRIENDS,
ONCE AGAIN I WOULD LIKE TO REFRESH YOUR MIND THAT THE SUPREME COURT WRIT IS NOT ONLY FOR 235 PERSON BUT FOR EACH REGISTERED PANALIST (sic).
Now if I’m reading Lahoti’s clarification properly, he’s clearly stating that the mediation proceedings are only going to affect the panelists involved. Whereas Solomon James is reassuring everyone that the committee meeting is for ‘every registered panelist‘.
These two positions are naturally at odds with eachother and both men are involved in the committee itself. With Lahoti ultimately running things though, I’m going to go with his clarification.
Seeing as none of the parties involved currently represent every panelist and the action is civil, how the Lahoti Committee outcome affect everyone?
Even if AISPA were to implead themselves into the Committee, it is only they themselves that claim they represent every panelists. They certainly don’t in any official capacity that can be put down on paper and certified (nobody has taken a census of Speak Asia’s 1.2 million members have they?)
As it stands, the Lahoti Committee outcome serves only the interests of the 234 panelists recorded on the Solomon writ.
In light of Lahoti’s clarifications, some people have begun to ask me what’s going to happen next.
As always, I can only work with the information infront of me and as it stands, Kkhosla mentioned that Lahoti confirmed that the ‘ EOW, ED, IT and RBI, etc’ (CID, MCA and SFIO?) are now party to the Lahoti Committee and will participate.
Given that we’ve received concrete clarification that whatever goes on in the Lahoti Committee and its ultimate conclusion will in no way shape or form affect any criminal investigation or legal action by the above named authorities, we can gauge what their involvement will mean by looking at what they’ve already publicly stated about Speak Asia.
The EOW have stated that Speak Asia is the largest MLM fraud they’ve ever had to investigate and called it a multi-crore fraud. They’ve also stated that the company made about 2,200-2,400 crore but owes panelists a total of roughly 30,000 crore in reward points.
The ED have stated they’ve booked Speak Asia for money laundering and intend to file criminal charges.
The IT have claimed their investigation has revealed that Speak Asia is guilty of tax evasion.
The MCA have stated that when their investigative branch, the SFIO, hand down their report on Speak Asia (due sometime this month), they intend to ‘nail’ the company in court by the end of December.
Now, keeping in mind that the Lahoti Committee is a completely civil affair solely dealing with payments to panelists, how could the inclusion of any of the above government authorities, given their stance on Speak Asia, prove in any way positive for the 224 panelists being represented at the Lahoti Committee?
Common sense has led us in analysis up to this point and common sense would point to the inclusion of these authorities as being a disaster not only for the panelists being represented, but for Speak Asia itself.
Not withstanding the fact that until now, Speak Asia has gotten away with presenting to the court a business model they never even implemented or used, and passing it off as one they did.
How is it then going to look when these respective agencies attend the Lahoti Committee and explain that the business model Speak Asia submitted is not the one they have been investigating Speak Asia under, because it’s one they never used between May 2010 and May 2011?
Look at it from Lahoti’s viewpoint, he walks into the next meeting and one by one these departments lay out their accusations against Speak Asia, which are all a result of the ongoing criminal investigations into the company.
Now if you were Lahoti, what would you report back to the Supreme Court?
Oz,
Hon’ble Mr. Justice Lahoti has an impeccable reputation and we should never worry that he will let Speak Asia or its drummers pull wool over his eyes.
I for one am satisfied after speaking to Lordship and have published the gist of the conversation so that the investors in the fraudulent survey scheme of Speak Asia are aware of the true facts and do not harass Lordship by trying to contact him.
They may also group together and get impleaded in the mediation process to actively look after their interest. I would like them to contact me on speakasiainvestors@gmail.com
An update from Speak Asia Powers regarding Melvin Crasto’s arrest;
Just so we’re clear here;
If public prosecutors are now involved this means the court is going to announce tommorow whether a criminal trial goes ahead (can anyone clarify this or am I misunderstanding?) I wonder what crime the EOW are accusing Crasto of and whether they’ve officially charged him or not?
Sounds like the Prosector made the EOW’s case against Crasto today and the court has taken another 24 hours to decide whether to release him on bail or back into the custody of the EOW or to keep in JC.
Either way… it’s quite obvious Crasto isn’t just ‘an innocent panelist’. Prosecutors don’t get involved unless there’s a case involving criminal charges to be heard.
@Oz
Well done! I think outside the close coterie of SAOL masterminds, only you have fully understood the big picture of global ramifications of SAOL scam including extension to its illegitimate child (Admatrix) and grand child (Mr. Colibri) and you have also been providing micro level analysis at each crucial stage as this bizarre drama is unfolding.
I think it will be extremely beneficial for 2 million panelists if your feedback is made available (through persons like Kkhosla) to help the investigating agencies involved in quickly cleaning up this mess which may otherwise drag on for an indefinite period.
As such, the main scamsters have moved away and their lackeys like AISPA Chairman / Secretary and cheerleaders are merely flogging the dead horse to keep the false hope alive among 2 million victims of this largest Ponzi pyramid scheme.
Developments reported at BEHIND MLM site need to be closely followed by all the agencies involved in unearthing this scam.
Incidentally, today some one posted a copy of your article “Speak Asia CEO Manoj Kumar investing in… Brazil?” on Speakasian Powers Group on Facebook. This post was quickly deleted by Admin.
I can foresee that one day you will write a book on Speak Asia scam.
Oz,
The Public Prosecutor (PP) is the advocate of the state and in India every criminal court has a PP. He speaks on behalf of the State – EOW – in this case.
I suspect that they wanted to extend the police custody but the advocate for the accused may have opposed the same and the Hon’ble Magistrate may also not have agreed.
An application for release of Crasto on bail may have been submitted by his advocate and the PP has sought one day’s time to file his reply as he may need the help of the EOW for this.
Normally this is not done but only in serious matters this is done. I do not know the charges against Crasto. I suspect they may be serious. Pending the reply he has been sent to judicial custody for a day – means he has been sent to jail and will be produced in Court tomorrow at 3 pm when his bail application will be considered.
Police will not get his custody but whether he will be released on bail or sent to further jail custody will be decided tomorrow.
(And not a single word from Anju…)
No doubt release of Crasto, if it happens, will mean he’s the new savior of SAOL… (yes, that’s sarcasm)
Either that, or she’ll claim Khoosla is a lying SOB. But then, we know what sort of bull**** Anju is capable of conjuring, yes? She claimed SpeakAsia does NOT publish e-zines, claims that Supreme court “routinely” combine civil and criminal cases… and so on and so forth. Wonder what story will she come up with this time?
What we really need now is a clarification from Solomon Jemes on what exact did he mean by “registered panelists”.
To regular SAOL readers it means EVERY SAOL panelist.
However, to a legal pro (attorneys and aides) it may mean something different, such as registered as part of a party in the lawsuit. After all, a PIL needs to know how MANY people it covers (i.e. defining the “class” in class-action suits)
Does any one have an actual copy of the writ of the Solomon Jemes case? It will clarify just who does the PIL cover.
We all have confirmation bias, and we want to interpret words to conform to our world view. However, reality may indicate otherwise.
@K. Chang
You have to be careful, and not ruin your own chances here.
She has been very active here for the last 4 months, so I’ll guess there is something attracting her to this blog. 🙂
* It can’t be me, because I haven’t been very active.
* You and Oz have been very active. 🙂
* It can’t be the ‘JAI SpeakAsia’ either, because they use to hang around other places than this one.
Of course, there can be other reasons, too. Some people like to make some noise whereever they are. 🙂
I’ve survived the Mannatech / Sugarmum guy. I’m sure Anju won’t be too much of a problem. 😉
@Oz
You tried to look at the situation from Justice Lahoti’s viewpoint in some ares here. Do the same in other areas, too?
Chain of command
The Lahoti Committee works on behalf of the Supreme Court, ‘ordered by the Supreme Court to do some specific work’ or a similar description. The Committee will first have to finish their work (write a report) and deliver it to the Supreme Court. It’s up to SC to decide and handle any information to the public.
Justice Lahoti doesn’t work on behalf of any other than the Supreme Court, and he shouldn’t leak any information to the public about the actual work done there – unless the Supreme Court tell him to do so. We have to respect the chain of command here.
@K. Chang
I wasn’t thinking of the problems, just the possibilities (if you play your cards right). 🙂
And remember I haven’t analyzed the situation fully, yet. I identified both you and Oz as two possible reasons here, and I also mentioned ‘other possible reasons’.
I would have survived the Mannatech guy, but I was too busy counting the posts and analyzing the statistics. First he posted at dates near full moon or new moon, just like werewolves, but after a while he changed to ‘rapid fire’ posting. I wasn’t prepared for the ‘rapid fire’.
@Oz
I believe Solomon James is right, that ALL registered panelists are covered by the case. Or else it wouldn’t be public interests, only the interests of a little group of the public involved. It shouldn’t be necessary to register a million people or more in a PIL.
The Lahoti Committee should be able to write a report from a neutral viewpoint, just stating the facts and maybe something more. I don’t think two different business models will be much of a problem at this stage, since the Supreme Court only deals with the civil part of the case.
You have stated these above 4 points ….what proof you have that this is true and why not these authorities have proved their points inside the court….
You people here on behindmlm are just raising your TRP’s and earning incomes with adds given on your webpages and Nothing Else…
Please stop befouling innocent people… and mind your own business….
@Navniit
Ah yeah, I read Vikas’ english wrong. The prosecutor has asked for a day not the court.
Today that day is up so I guess we’ll see what happens.
Regarding the representation thing, perhaps all panelists are represented in the Writ, but not the Lahoti Committee. I presume Lahoti knows what he’s talking about regarding the committee he’s in charge of.
And AISPA claiming they represent all panelists carries as much weight as me saying BehindMLM does.
@M_Norway
Why would the Supreme Court care if information reagrding the Lahoti Committee was made public. Obviously Lahoti is under no obligation to circulate information, but the same can’t be said for the senior panelists and AISPA if or when they get involved – not if they’re claiming to represent every panelist don’t you think?
What proof? How about they said it.
Because they haven’t filed anything yet. The financial investigators (ED, IT and MCA) appear to be waiting for the SFIO report and the EOW investigation is still obviously continuing. Perhaps today we’ll find out what they’ve formally charged AISPA President Melvin ‘just an innocent panelist’ Crasto with.
What’s a ponzi scheme and its operators worst enemy? Being exposed.
@Oz
The chain of command argument also includes members of a Committee, not only the leader. It is the whole Committee that produces some kind of report on behalf of Supreme Court.
I was under the impression that Lahoti was working towards a resolution, which he’d then make a reccomendation to the Supreme Court to action.
Whether that reccommendation is what panelists want though is the question. I’d argue with the inclusion of the authorities and their respective view points, probably not.
As far as I know it’s Lahoti alone submitting the report to the SC, not all parties involved.
I have read a few different reports from ‘Committees’, like different kinds of ‘Creditor Report’ when a company is under litigation or shall be dissolved. I’ll guess they’re somewhat similar to a report from the Lahoti Committee. They follow very specific rules, what the report shall contain and how to write it. It’s a very formal report, divided into sections, points and subpoints.
A Creditor Report will usually contain a recommendation.
Since a litigator produces reports both for courts and creditors, I believe they’re somewhat similar to Lahoti Report.
EOW and the respective agencies have stated so to the press. If you have a problem with their statement, take it up with them. Maybe sue them for defamation, if you actually think you have a chance at all.
You really think a few dozen mad SpeakAsians is going to add much revenue to this little blog? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
According to EOW, it’s SpeakAsia that should stop befouling innocent people (panelists). And they are indeed minding their business: chasing down economic offenders.
If my thinking is right, your revenue increases by the number of hits your page takes and when you talk about speakasia it is bound to make your hit counter move fast. Because even if baseless comments, people will always come and read those..
Only a dozen want to respond rest all know how good you and your comments and your intentions are…
@Sanjeev
Indian traffic is worthless. So there goes that theory out the window.
@OZ
Now now..Oz..that one was unwarranted and below the belt..you cant ..on the basis of comments of one person brand the whole country..you no doubt will have to admit that these SAOL matter has increased the viewership of this site..I believe this is the most honest and impartial analysis of SAOL business on the net..and utmost respect for you guys for your uncanny deduction skills and intelligence ..pls..a request to refrain from this..
Sanjeev, as if SpeakAsia’s intention were good when they were lying that Airtel, Tata, ICICI were their clients.
As if SpeakAsia’s intention were good when they lied again saying blah, blah, blah, we will go to supreme court against UOB bank who stopped their accounts.
As if SpeakAsia’s intention were good when they lied they will open Escrow account in Singapore and make payments.
As if SpeakAsia’s intention were good when they claimed YUG products that they are going to sell to speakasians were mede by German technology and it turned out to be cheap chinese crap.
As if SpeakAsia’s intention were good when they changed the FAQ and stated they dont guarantee anyone a X amount and panelist earn reward points andd they have to use reward points on purchasing products and services, and that too a panelist will shed out more money around 80 percent cash and 20 percent reward points.
And your speakasia bosses intention was very good when they transfered 600 crores in July when court allowed their bank accounts to function and they transfered that money to singapore.
And your boss Manoj Kumars intention are quite good that after transfering that money he ran away and you and your team dont even know where your good intention CEO is, and he is busy in Mister Colibri admatrix scheme in Brazil.
Better contact your boss and tell him you want to also become Proud to be a Mister Colibri, actually very proud. LOL.
Where is your good intention Haren Kaur and Tarak Bajpai……..
@Mr Y
Uh, Indian traffic is widely seen as pretty much useless in terms of global online advertising revenue.
That’s solely in terms of revenue, which is the context it was made in. Obviously I’m not suggesting Indian traffic isn’t welcome or valuable here in any other context.
As the links between senior panelists, AISPA and Speak Asia are exposed, these guys will try to direct attention away from their financial motives by claiming that’s why I write about Speak Asia. Given that Indian traffic isn’t worth much, I was just stating that theory is bogus.
Senior panelist update:
You heard him, stop discussing everything immediately. Everything is going to be ok… remain calm and if you feel the need to panic just have faith in the management team you haven’t seen or heard from in over 6 months.
Here so many points are made(On this blog). Please try to answer some of them first
Your operations are closed not ours. You have taken 11K from peoples not us. You have stooped paying(for whatever reason)not us. You are defending yourself in Supreme court not us. EOW arresting your OPERATORES not ours.
@ Oz..
Your reasoning is okay..I only mean to say that us Indians are very sentimental and this is just a request..you can always rephrase your comments..No offense..meant..carry on the good work..It is honestly now hard to believe that with millions of us Online more and more..Global advertising ..uh?/
Anyways I understand that in desperation and panic more and more SAOL top panelists will try to instigate you and your websites to write like this.. .they have put a clampdown on most of the sites speaking against SAOL and this is the only fair one left.
As I have mentioned before that more & more SAOL panelists visit this site to get a clearer picture and reasoning of what’s going on.(As they are getting nothing from their Up-lines/Top Panelists)…the more panic sets on the top panelists as they can’t answer their questions..hence this planned attack on you guys..
First of all, I’m not Oz. I’m not even on the same continent.
Second, you have too much faith in how much Google Adsense pays. Even at 1000 hits a day, you get PENNIES. Just a few cents. That’s not enough to buy a cup of decent coffee or tea around here.
Thus, your conspiracy theory is worthless, and you can’t attack the facts and analysis already presented. First SAOLers claim we’re employed by other MLMs. Then it’s “it’s just to drive up the traffic”. By your logic, AISPA’s website should be making oodles of $$$, since it obviously got much more traffic than this one due to all the SpeakAsians (well, until the admins gave orders NOT to discuss things). So why is Bahirwani begging for contributions, hmm?
I would have to agree with Y here. That net was cast a bit too wide. Instead of replying with one barb, you replied with a nuke. 🙂 Talk about collateral damage! 😀
Now maybe if you say “SpeakAsians”, that would be more on target. After all, that sort of demographic desperate for a few reward points… not really the sort that click on ads, are they?
Dear Navniit Khosla , please prove here you are the same person who file the FIR , i think ur id is fake
The size of the economy is more important than number of people online.
Bigger economy = more spend for advertisers. China has the largest internet population but unless you’re in bed with the Chinese govt it’s pretty much worthless.
Anyway we’ll leave it there as we’re getting off topic (which is exactly why Sanjeev brought it up).
Comment 1) He knows too much to be fake.
Comment 2) And why would he fake being one of the most hated persons by rabid SpeakAsians desperate to believe SAOL will be exonerated?
Nope, you simply want to discredit him instead of the information he provided. You somehow think that if Khoosla is not real SAOL’s problem will go away. It won’t.
Still no word on Crasto’s bail hearing…
Senior panelists are too busy trying to divert attention away by flooding Facebook with silly Happy Birthday Sanjeev copy paste photos and messages.
Edit: apparently the hearing is still going.
@ Chang..
Tx..
AISPA Chairman Melvyn Crasto’s bail hearing over. Order is reserved for tomorrow 1pm.
Dear
Reading this website for 2 months now.
Spkasia & its drummers trying to prove it right . on the other hand ,Oz & folks proving them wrong at every step.
very intersting, i am also one of the victim and i believe i have lost my money but i am now addicted to these websites in favour & against spkasia.
Another day? Far out.
Do we know what he’s been charged with yet? Also what does the order reserved mean? Is this something that happens usually?
I know Dandekar is due in court tommorow too, any reason they’d be looking to sandwich the two together on the same date?
.@Oz
“Also what does the order reserved mean? Is this something that happens usually?”
It implies that the Judge has heard detailed arguements from counsels representing both the sides and needs some more time to make up his mind and announce the verdict.
This is quite common as the Judge may need to refer judgements in similar previous cases and also to firm up his detailed reasoning which may be scrutinised / critically reviewed if the verdict is challenged and referred to higher courts.
Sounds like the EOW have kicked it up a notch. Certainly not a slam dunk release like anju et al were toting.
Anybody still think Crasto is just an ‘innocent panelist’?
@Sanju
Which are the other worthwhile websites for and against?
Where is Speak Asia covered in Facebook for and against?
Love to hear from you
Hi Oz
These panelist many of them with little knowledge of English are being fooled constantly by the senior panelist.
Take for example a panelist who posted how can speakasia pay 20 lakh panelist who do a Rs 500 survey every week as it amounts to Rs 200 crore per week.
The answer he got was this is marketing research and thats why companies pay a huge amount.
These people dont understand a marketing research does have 20 questions that too just click and select answes which ends in less than 3 minutes by someone who is fluent on computers.
They feel that Rajmani PIL being disposed EOW will not arrest anyone and EOW shud close proceedings.
They have also been told now matters are in supreme court commitee and no one can interfere.
They are now confused as what is happenning and why Crasto is still in custody.
They have not been told that the Justice Lahoti commitee will only look at disbursement of payment to 235 panelist as per the writ petition.
What i feel is even Justice Lahoti is unware that Solomon James is pushing for payments of 20 lakh panelist and when he comes to know, he might ask foe registeration and proof of 20 lakh panelist.
Whatever happens Justice Lahoti will not blindly go after the 20 lakh figure and might end up digging deep in this business and result will be bad.
Wasn’t Speak Asia’s e-zines in English?
Here is a news of a guy Abir from north india who used her sisters money without her knowledge and invested in speakasia and lost the money
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/abir-admits-he-lied-about-rs-8-lakh-robbery-had-removed-money-from-sisters-locker/876574/
Hi Oz,
Yes the e-zine was in English. But there are panelist who are uneducated and just learnt how to login and do click and finish survey.
There are some who are little educated but did not have any computer knowledge.
If they govt agencies would not have started investigation speakasia would have kept enrolling and even cooks and maids without any knowledge would have become Research Marketing Panelist.
@ navnit
ebiztoppers,speakasia.mobi,speak-asia-fraud.blogspot,bizbasket………..
3 pages of fb..i.e.
true panelists,local business nad speakasian power.’.
these are all related to spkasia and none other than greatest website of behindmlm
@Sameer…
Many speakasians were never good in english.. but remember… Each and everyone joined Speakasia for money. Also thats how they promoted, until their cover was blown off….
Now, now, we really don’t *have* enough evidence to speculate. Could be that the judge is just swamped with paperwork. 🙂 Maybe! 😉
Sad story indeed, but hardly unique. In every scam, there are the people who are con’ed into “sure thing”, and they want so desperately to make money, they will take OTHER people’s money, with the idea of “I’ll pay you back when I make it.”
The double-sad part is such a person then refuse to believe he was deceived, and believe the anti-government propaganda launched by other SpeakAsians (and as evidence increasing suggest, shills paid by SpeakAsia itself pretending to be SpeakAsians).
This is no surprise, really. I’ve pointed out several times before an even larger scam in Colombia several years back. Grupo DMG had once boasted SIX MILLION members. When it was finally shut down by the government in 2008, DMG followers rioted in the streets, and some conducted hunger strike demanding government allow DMG to reopen so they can earn money. They even chanted “We believe in God and DMG” in demonstration rallies.
One more lie
In above pages where is your activities (e.g. surveys filling, product referrals / sales, advertising based surveys, self development training programs ) it seems to be purely membership based Ponzi scheme.
If so then why admin login in India and Bangladesh
http://sabackoffice.speakasiaonline.com/login.aspx
Which is yet ANOTHER level of fraud, this time perpetrated by senior panelists instead of SpeakAsia itself, but clearly encouraged by SpeakAsia.
After all, the tests and surveys are fake, just randomly click on answers, anybody can do it. This flies in the face of any such “market survey” legitimacy, when “panelists” must be in a certain demographic category. Just the idea that you can buy “subpanels” is insane. If you can be panelist in more than one category, why would you have to PAY to do so? This is called “stacking” in MLM, and is a severe RED FLAG sign of illegal pyramid scheme. There is no logical reason for stacking.
You should thank the TV station who did the expose first. Without them doing investigative report government may not have taken action.
Though I believe I may be the one who prompted Oz to take a look at this mess, even BEFORE the TV expose. I knew it was a pyramid scheme when I first saw the comp model.
Come to think of it, didn’t Anju claimed that AISPA got so much traffic on their website that Google came begging to place ads on their website? 😉
@K Chang,
Anju might say that AISPA didn’t opt for Google Ads.. as they found asking/begging money from already looted members a better option… LOL
@Sameer
So not only were some people submitting 10 replies to the same survey, but then you also had people who couldn’t even understand them just clicking away and submitting answers.
And these are the surveys Speak Asia wants us to believe companies were paying a minimum of 3.8 million USD for each?
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
@Kasey
And that was before it was even functional!
@Kasey
If Crasto is granted bail today, watch the instant procolmations of ‘see he’s innocent!’ blasted all over by Speak Asia’s members. They’ll even use the mere fact that he’s got bail to mitigate any criminal charges laid against him and declare proof of his innocence.
@ Oz..
In lieu of the above the Anjus of SAOL will also proclaim that as Crastro was released..the Supreme Court has given a “CLEAN CHIT” to SAOL Operations and they will start soon along with the all time favorite EXIT options open to all.
What these bafoons don’t realize that if even if by a miracle SAOL is let off lightly.. there is no one of the top level Management left here in India to restart the operations.. (Revised Model..where there wont be definitely no more surveys business but operating on the basis of E-Bay..where you can buy and sell online..etc..honestly I dont know how many people will remain interested ..as Income flow will be peanuts compared to before..no more easy money ..no longer any Tom, Dick or Harry can enroll and earn at random..)
I remember speaking to one of the better performing Panelists some months ago and he had said that this whole bait of offering so many goodies to millions of people was to create a database for future operations like E-Bay etc..I don’t know how much of it was true.. but even then you cannot lure more people into a ponzi scheme even if later the intent was good.
The “Management” now is busy playing their Ponzis Internationally and they won’t risk coming back to the wrath of millions of people who lost their hard earned money…. Again if the intent of the Mnagent was good..they should be besides the Crastros, Bhaiwanis and Dandekars right now..
I still wonder there the SAI BABA, TIGER (Tarak) of SAOL is right now.. Anju.. have you or any of you spoken or met him after he was released..have you asked why he is not standing up besides you …to ..fight????.. Anjus?????
I think hereafter no one will talk or give their comments in support of Speak Asia in Behind MLM, all Speak Asia drummers have gone home and only people who support Behind MLM comes here & give comments, that itself is a big Success of Behind MLM.,
Who were Speak Asia drummers?
Who supports Speak Asia and writes their comments in support of Speak Asia, drummers should not be encouraged anywhere, Speak Asia is a scam and fraudulent company which has done crime.
Whoever supports the company should also be considered as fraud, scamsters & also criminals. Because of the only reason that Behind MLM has discovered that Speak Asia is a scam and fraud company who has done a crime in India.
Behind MLM has done the work of Supreme Court of India without wasting much time. Supreme Court of India should take all articles of Behind MLM as a proof against Speak Asia fraud and immediately order Police to arrest all Speak Asia officials and also all persons whoever earned money in this fraudulent scheme.
Behind MLM will keep on writing against Speak Asia until the criminals of the company (top heads) get punished. Behind MLM will not stop its activities of writing against Speak Asia at any stage (even if Speak Asia comes back – which is now not at all possible even for 1%).
We as a Anti SpeakAsian, very happy to know that Speak Asia has come to the stage from where they can’t come back again. Many Anti SpeakAsians were eagerly waiting for this stage or situation. Wonderful work by Behind MLM with Money-life & some of the news channels which exposed Speak Asia from the month of May.
@Mr Y
This is an argument we’ve been coming back to on here for months now. Moreso after Speak Asia submitted their made up business model they never used to the SC.
Basically like you said, Speak Asia and its supporters believe running a multi-million dollar ponzi scheme for a year was fine because they allegedly had a plan to offer products sometime in the future.
Of course legally this is horseshit but we can’t seem to get Anju et al. to understand that submitting business models you never used in court is not only perjury but also does not legally absolve you from running a scam in the first place.
Look mr chang , saol will win and definetly win , you people stop spreading bullshit news against saol , mr khosla is a person who is having many cases against him already so stop favouring him
See Mr Y, each time we point it out we get a reply like Manish’s above – ‘saol will win and definetly win‘.
It’s quite amusing really.
@ Oz..
@ Manish..
Looks like the Anjus are resting or too busy chalking out strategies to release the Castros of SAOL..so she sent Manish here to poke you which is her usual habit..Pls..Manish…Pls..for Gods’s Sake..stop chanting the “Mantra” – ‘saol is bound to win and definetly win‘.
You guys are quoting it like a Hanuman Chalisa (A prayer) ..it is as if God himself came down to enlighten you bafoons with this mantra..whcih is good enough for Salvation..I know a couple of idiots who have pasted this on their bathroom mirror and look at it first thing in the morning..amazing..naa..
It is simply HAMMING..start talking logic and not emotions ….GROW UP ..
Now you have problem with Indian Judicial system.
Why you people trying to quash the FIR using WRIT? Courts can’t work without investing agencies like EOW. They are the eyes and ears for the judicial systems.
One thing is sure that you will not be able to stop EOW or other investigations. Trying to do such things will only extend the time taken to solve the matter.
As I said before it is up-to the court to grant bail to accused or extend police remand. You can not convince court for any of the matter by saying right or wrong you have to produce enough evidence to support your claim. So neither Speakasia(AISPA) nor EOW can TELL the court what to do, you have to prove it.
After today’s hearing most of the things will be clear in Speakasia’s case.
This is from Speak Asia Powers on exactly what’s going down today;
No mention of Dandekar although I assume his thing is at 1pm or close to it too?
Still you believe chances are there for Speak Asia to make a come back, i don’t think so, K. Chang & Anti-SpeakAsian both of them seems to be correct.
It seems that already the game was over for Speak Asia, now if they bounce back it has to be real miracle or something special or extra-ordinary thing with them if they have something to prove in the court which Oz, Chang, M_Norway, Mr. Y., Andy, Sameer and other Moneylife folks won’t know personally / not aware of / not having knowledge regarding that!
Oz. & K. Chang.,
Do you think chance is there, Oz. & Chang? I don’t think so.!
@ Ritesh,
There is no way Or no chance for Speak Asia to come back. We can say that happily joining together with Oz, Chang, Y & other money-life folks (as you say) with 99% confident.
In case (strangely or rarely) if they come back it’ll be one of the biggest miracle which could happen in this country, at that time everyone will come back including me to support the company since they might be fighting with higher court of this land with some suspense stuffs what no one knows outside…!
I hope there will be nothing like that now.. So we have to stop dreaming & focus in our work!
And your proof of this is what exactly? Faith? Did SAOL become a religion for you?
All of these news are published by Indian newspapers and directly sourced from Khoosla. If you have a problem, complain to them. In fact, didn’t I say that already? Yes I did. Clearly, you need a hearing aid, or is that reading glasses?
And your proof of this is what exactly? There’s no ‘favoring’. Unless you can produce court case records that prove your point, you are just a bull****er.
Who says Speakasia will come back? I guess you are not following through my comments on this blog.
What I think is that court is going to reject the WRIT P from AISPA and Speakasia.
I think Ritesh misunderstood the comment, you all sound like you’re arguing the same thing :).
If Indian justice system is “just”, (and I have no reason to suspect it is not) SAOL was doomed from the very start. The only ‘surprise’ is that it dragged out for this long.
A scam that was “exposed” by TV would have packed up and left town immediately (much like AdMatrix, a fellow scam) instead of needing people to go to court and even supreme court and hiring lawyers and whatnot.
One wonders: WHO is paying Phoenix Legal’s fees, given that most of the assets (all?) of SAOL was frozen by CID? As Sanjeev and Anju have said, those lawyers don’t come cheap. I imagine that somebody put down some money? Or is Phoenix Legal going to file a lien on some of SAOL’s assets if they lose?
If so, that would be even LESS money for the panelists when they are “refunded”. In other words, every day SAOL fight in court means more money for lawyer, less money for panelists.
Maybe the masterminds behind SAOL know they won’t get the money out, so they’re just spending it and see what happens, just to **** the panelists even AFTER they lose.
I am following Behind MLM from sometime and AFAIK most of the people comments on this blog are not opposing or favoring anybody or any scheme.
People always try to share their opinion with available facts; and don’t want anyone to agree with it. So if you can’t provide facts and logical reasoning keep your mouth shut.
Clearly, he’s siding with SAOL, not the panelists he claims he’s representing.
As I mentioned before, there are TWO ways for panelists to get money
a) help EOW / CID / whoever finish the case, arrest all involved, seize their assets, and redistributed under Lahoti or whoever.
b) help SAOL fight the government and somehow hope SAOL will be declared innocent or somehow allowed to resume operations.
Logical analysis of SAOL’s REAL business model (not that drivel they presented in court) shows it’s a pyramid scheme. That and all the previous lies they told (no survey clients, no real surveys, etc.) means choosing b) is sheer insanity, yet that seem to be what Bahirwani and AISPA chose.
There are only two reasons: either Bahirwani is insane, or he has a deep dark secret he’s not telling us that made him chose that path that for the rest of us is clearly… illogical. As for what that secret is, only he would know.
But arrest of Melwin Crasto and that extra $3000 seem to hint at where that may lead. Again, it’s merely a vague hint.
Andy, he’s welcome to make a fool of himself. 😉 Anju did so many times and have provided us plenty of funny incidents.
This is called post-facto rationalization. Once they picked a side (i.e. sided with SAOL), they decided that looking stupid by presenting bogus arguments is not as bad as looking stupid in front of their peers (i.e. SpeakAsians). They’ve been brainwashed into siding with the group even when logically it makes no sense. Their logic has been bent into a pretzel (what’s the Indian equivalent of a pretzel?)
As Oz tells i misunderstood Andy’s comment “After today’s hearing most of the things will be clear in Speakasia’s case”. He clarified that he was thinking like today court is going to reject the WRIT Petition from AISPA and Speak Asia.
Well, now coming to Chang’s comment – i do accept everything what you told Chang, a long time before everyone had a thought on that point of fees for lawyers, that too highly paid lawyers.
I want to ask you again why they are fighting till now? They would have chosen the path of other companies (like Ad-matrix did) who were running away immediately once they decided, you also mentioned it is a ‘surprise’, for me it is a big surprise!
Write down your assumption, why they are fighting still..? Why EOW also not finishing the case soon? For me it seems both these matter would have so many links..
Your say on this Oz & Chang?
Actually their plan, i mean SpeakAsia’s plan was to first collect money thru Pyramid model, once they have huge money they could buy chinese products very cheapily bargaining for a huge numbers as they would have a huge database and become a product based MLM. It was like use peoples money to start a business.
But before they could become a product based MLM they were caught by the star news expose.
And the reason they are fighting is maybe they have people like Tarak Bajpai and others who they want to save. Maybe these guys might end up against SAOL if they dont hire lawyers and fight.
And the reasoning for this is Manoj Kumar. He is a indian with indian passport hiding and staying abroad. His family is here in India and he would or will want ro come back. He cannot live his whole life running away from authorities.
But even if they manage to exit those who gave complaints against them and save themselves thru the Lahoti commitee, will the remaining panelist keep quite if they dont get the money for their RPs, because most people join for survey income and they will end up having to sell products.
Most likely because they never planned on Speak Asia getting this big. These types of scams (all run by Seven Rings) are supposed to reach critical point and then dissappear. With too many people getting involved (1.2 million members) this got way out of control (you can’t pay out 30,000 crore with 2,200-2,400 crore).
Too many people know too much and the only thing keeping them quiet is the promise of a business restart. I guess as long as the management of Seven Rings has still got enough to retire on they’ll keep the courts busy and hope time erodes their tracks.
Like Kasey pointed out, Speak Asia’s only revenue stream was from panelists’ membership fees, and its with this money the company is paying lawyers… to a point.
Harendar Kaur took out over a hundred million US so that’ll buy quite a few court appearances left and still leave enough for Seven Rings management to share around yet.
Money laundering across six countries, employees not willing to co-operate, members being led to blame them and obstruct the investigation any way they can… it’s not an easy task.
Unlikely. Electronics are available anywhere, and existing importers already exist and order in even bigger quantities than SAOL. MLM sales of electronics makes ZERO sense.
IMHO, the TVs were a delaying tactic. They know they have to give something back to the panelists, but there’s NO WAY they will pay every RP as if it’s real money, not with the various banks shutting doors in their face. So someone came up with this hare-brained “buy some cheap TVs and give them in exchange for RPs instead of $$$” idea.
They’ll spend a couple Crores (I estimate the TV’s at no more than 40 crores) and can be sold for a profit all over. They will likely make panelists pay half in real $$$ and half in RPs, which means SAOL won’t really lose much money, and that’ll confuse more of the critics while they atay busy burying the money trail and transfer more money to Singapore (and Brazil)
@Oz
“Write down your assumption, why they are fighting still..?”
The biggest beneficiaries of SAOL scam are Pal brothers and the other top panelists who have siphoned out more than Rs 1000 crore. All these people are in India with their families.
The Indian legal system is very slow and long winded. All these scamsters will try to keep the court cases delayed indefinitely.
Some of them may also try to change their identities and move to safer havens abroad.
@Kasey
That and look at how many of their members are making such a big deal out of losing the $200 USD membership fee. Some people are even crying suicide over this.
How are these people going to afford electronics?
The only people who are going to buy electronics are those who recruited hundred or thousands to Speak Asia. Except with the product model their recruitment commissions are gone and then how are they going to afford all these electronics?
Ah, but that’s interesting part. If my guess is right, (I’m not familiar with Indian prices, so I’ll just name a figure in USD). NOTE: FOLLOWING IS A THEORETICAL SCENARIO, AND IT IS PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART
Let’s say the TV is worth $300 in some electronics store.
SAOL, being the importer, got it for $200.
SAOL will then offer the TV to the panelists: this TV is worth $300, but you can get it for $150 by using 150 RPs.
SAOL is out $50 per TV, but as long as SOME people take the deal (i.e. accept the fact that they won’t get RP’s changed into real money, may as well get something, maybe they can sell the TV for $250 on India’s Craigslist) that will keep the $$$ keep coming in and use THAT to pay more panelists.
There’s clearly NOT enough money to pay all the RPs, but this diversion will hopefully cut down on the number of RPs that need to be paid with real money (basically, the “profit” from selling the TVs is used to absorb the expense of paying RPs.)
They can always limit the redemption of RPs at some point if they ran out of TVs, or invent some bogus excuse to stop redemption altogether, like “fraudulent panelists” or something.
And with the TVs sitting in a container it makes a great propaganda tool: government don’t understand us, nor do the critics. We SAOL knows best.
@Andy
The basic idea of this blog is to write unbiased reviews about MLM-companies and related stuff. To write about scams is not a basic idea, but scams are a part of ‘related stuff’. Usually, this stuff is only a followup for a company already reviewed.
A balance between different opinions may be just as valuable as ‘neutral’ and ‘unbiased’, and ‘personal opinions’ may have some value, too.
A mix of different styles seems to work well. It may be less interesting to read if too many share the same viewpoint, or follow the same set of rules.
My personal favourite here is Michael Hamburger’s message to Brent Payne on Facebook:
“WOW, we’ve already made the first page of behindmlm.com.’ 😛
@Kasey
And then longevity wise, where does the company go when RP’s run out?
There’s no revenue model? (unless Speak Asia want to become some sort of weird electronics MLM).
I know none of this is going to happen but I’m just following this particular route to it’s inevitable conclusion :).
@ Chang & Oz.,
No lawyers will work on credit, company needs to pay to all lawyers before, EOW can easily track from where these lawyers were getting their fees & immediately can stop the transaction.
Why EOW is not doing that?
You are telling it is public money, If they do that, easily they can save public money also, Why they are not doing this?
Like arresting Melwyn they can’t arrest lawyers, it’s not possible, but they can track where the money is coming for lawyers? right? Your say on this?
@Ritesh
The banks are blocking all of Speak Asia’s official channels, so the money is most likely being sent from dummy front company accounts.
Harender Kaur has 25+ companies in her name, who knows how many Kumar and everyone else (including Podium International) has.
Seven Rings could just turn around and say it’s Mister Colibri money… and don’t forget the EOW can trace the money trail out of India but until they file charges they can’t approach international banking channels to freeze the money overseas (as per my understanding), only in India – which they’ve done.
So far they’ve said they’ve tracked it to Holland and Singapore, Podium Ring are in the British Virgin Islands so we can include them, Seven Rings operate out of Italy and Mister Colibri in Brazil.
Then there’s the individuals…
@ Ritesh,
Do you know that ‘EOW don’t know from where these SAOL lawyers getting their fees?’
Have EOW told you personally that ‘they don’t know that source of money for the lawyers?’
They know everything, “There will be no money back if their account is drained”, may be they might be trying for draining SAOL’s account and after sometime automatically they will stop fighting legally, anyhow it’s already decided no one is going to get even a single penny from this company..!
It was a good idea to stop giving the payout as well as not bringing back the company!
There is no longevity. It’s a DELAYING tactic. They don’t have enough money to pay out all the RPs, so they change the game. instead of paying RP as real dollars (let’s call it “1 to 1”), they pay RP in TVs and electronics, which they can get cheaper. Let’s say, 33% cheaper, so they die 33% slower.
Then they can point at that and claim they *do* have an income source that’s NOT only membership / subscription / blahblahblah.
@Ritesh and Anti-SpeakAsian
Fees to lawyers:
In a criminal case the Government usually guarantees for the fees, I believe?
In the U.S ‘you have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law; you have the right to an attorney; if you can’t afford one …’.
In Norway the court will automatically guarantee for the lawyer’s fees in criminal cases (at a standardized, lower rate than normal fees). The Government will pay because the prosecution of a criminal case is THEIR choice, and you can’t make any other choices like ‘It’s too expensive for me, and I’d prefer to solve this case outside court’. In civil cases you have such choices.
But, in some cases the expenses of the prosecution can be included in the verdict, so it isn’t absolutely free. I’m not very familiar with how common this is, or in which cases they use it.
Both the Indian and Norwegian court systems have derived from the English court system, so I believe they have a lot of similarities. The only difference I have seen so far is the use of PIL and Supreme Court.
Jesus Christ how serious are the charges against Crasto, he’s in custody again till Monday. Senior panelists still aren’t revealing what charges he’s facing (if there are any?)
He was originally up on bail on Wednesday, then judicial custody wed/thurs night and now again till Monday. Must be a hell of a EOW case against him.
That and Tarak Bajpai’s instant marathon sprint and straight into hiding after his hospital release seems to have made the courts reluctant to give people connected to Speak Asia bail.
Dandekar must also be up on some serious issue (if not the same dodginess Crasto is involved in), he’s in custody again for a week.
Still waiting on the AISPA and Speak Asia ‘you can’t investigate us!’ hearing details.
Meanwhile Bizbasket are reporting the Lahoti Committee is finished and will be handed to the Supreme Court by Lahoti on Monday (didn’t see that coming).
With the EOW supposedly participating in the Lahoti Committee’s last meeting, perhaps theres a link as to why Crasto is continually being held in court custody (I know the matters are in different courts, but the EOW could be a link between the two as they’re supposedly involved in both).
Note that BizBasket haven’t credited a source at this stage.
‘In custody until Monday’ doesn’t sound very serious, and neither do ‘in custody again for a week’.
Extended custody are usually related to investigation issues, but the length of the extension can usually tell something about how serious a case is.
The court usually extends the custody to prevent
* risk of tampering with evidence (investigation isn’t finished)
* risk of influencing witnesses
* risk of fleeing the country
* risk of further criminal activity
The extension over the weekend is a minimum extension, meaning the case isn’t very serious. The court have only allowed to keep him in custody until the next day in court. The use of custody and extension of custody differs from country to country, but ‘minimum’ should be the same in most countries.
The one week extension is a ‘normal’ extension, but it may be related to investigation issues rather than to how serious the case is.
Oz
I was in Court today and orders on the bail application of Crasto have been reserved till Monday by the Hon’ble Magistrate.
EOW has been given further remand of Ashish Dandekar till 15th Dec by the Hon’ble Court.
There were not too many Speak Asians in Court today.
The Public Prosecutor has submitted in the proceedings in the Qila Court, amongst others, that Ashish Dandekar has signed a notice on behalf of Speak Asia sent to Star News claiming Rs. 500 crore as compensation for defamation, loss of business, etc. Dandekar was, it seems, authorised to sign the notice by virtue of a Board resolution of Speak Asia Online. Wow! Holy shit!
EOW needs to investigate this urgently. That this means Dandekar may be the new acting COO of Speak Asia in India and of which we had no knowledge! Seems reasonable! What do you say?
Can someone get some documentary record of this? There has to be a Board resolution passed by Speak Asia and a copy of this resolution will reveal lots of things.
It will help in further establishing who is actually heading Speak Asia in India now.
@Navniit Kkhosla
Soon after the arrest of COO Tarak Bajpai, a letter signed by Harendar Kaur was posted on SAOL supported websites announcing appointment of Ashish Dandekar as Acting COO.