Mark Scott OneCoin case in limine motions reveal desperation
Both Mark Scott and DOJ have filed their respective motions in limine, in preparation for Scott’s November 4th trial date.
Perusal of the motions suggests Scott’s defense will rely heavily on suppression and straw clutching.
Mark Scott’s defense motions in limine was filed on October 18th.
In summary, Scott (right, with his wife) put forth the DOJ
- should not be allowed to refer to OneCoin investors as victims;
- should not be permitted to introduce evidence pertaining to OneCoin investor losses;
- should not be able to call witnesses that didn’t personally invest in OneCoin;
- should not be able to introduce evidence pertaining to how Scott spent the money he received in exchange for laundering OneCoin investor funds;
- should not be able to call a money laundering expert witness.
The last one in particular is hilarious, considering Scott has been charged with money laundering.
As to the rest of Scott’s demands, its clear his attorney hopes to minimize Scott’s role in OneCoin. Not withstanding him being a central figure in the laundering of ~$400 million in stolen investor funds.
Take, for example, this amusing snippet;
even if OneCoin was a scam and a particular investor was in fact a “victim,” the investor is not a victim of Mr. Scott’s.
Because y’know, being the money guy responsible for laundering investor funds has nothing to do with OneCoin victim losses.
With respect to introducing a witness who decided to not invest in OneCoin, the angle Scott fears here is just how easy it was to ascertain OneCoin was a Ponzi scheme.
The Government has represented that it will likely call a witness who decided not to invest in OneCoin after reading Internet postings suggesting it was a scam.
Such testimony is entirely irrelevant and is clearly offered for the improper purpose of suggesting that because this one individual decided that OneCoin was a scam after Internet research, that Mr. Scott did or could have done such research, and therefore potentially came to a similar conclusion.
The implication being that Scott knew OneCoin was dodgy as hell, he just didn’t care.
“Show me the monay so I can spend it on nice things! But also don’t mention that at trial…”
Mr. Scott purchased a boat, property, sports cars, watches (and) luxury goods during or after the period of the charged offense.
It’s obviously hard to walk Scott’s role in OneCoin’s fraud back, and so we have all the “suppress this, suppress that!” nonsense.
Based on his motion, “hide as much from the jury” pretty much sums up Scott’s defense.
The DOJ’s motions in limine seek to prevent Scott from trotting out defenses that have nothing to do with him laundering OneCoin investor funds.
The DOJ has requested Scott be prohibited from offering evidence pertaining to his “state of mind”.
Specifically, the Government moves to preclude (1) evidence or argument concerning the defendant’s family backgrounds, health conditions, ages, or any other personal factors unconnected to his guilt or innocence, and the potential punishment he faces if convicted; and
(2) evidence or argument concerning the defendant’s prior commission of good acts or lack of bad acts.
Looks like Scott intends to put up some whopper sob stories at trial.
Of note in the DOJ’s motions filing is reference to a “cooperating witness” (CW).
The DOJ identifies the CW as “a leader in the OneCoin fraud scheme”.
The Government also expects to call the CW to testify at trial.
During the CW’s testimony, the Government expects that the CW will testify about conversations with co-conspirators that were made in furtherance of the OneCoin Scheme.
In particular;
statements made to the CW immediately following Scott’s arrest to protect and continue the charged conspiracies.
As to who CW is, my mind immediately went to Sebastian Greenwood.
Scott was arrested in September 2018. Greenwood at the time was still at large, until his arrest in Thailand in early November.
By the end of November 2018, Greenwood is believed to have been extradited to the US. Since then he’s disappeared into an information black hole, which fits if he’s cooperating with the DOJ.
I might be wrong on this and there could very well be some unknown player we’re not aware of from the Sofia office.
Whoever CW is, the DOJ are being awfully cagey about it.
But honestly, I can’t think of anyone else Mark Scott would turn to in a panic, that is high up enough in OneCoin to continue managing the money laundering… and someone the DOJ has access to.
Conspicuously, Greenwood has also not been publicly charged by the DOJ.
On the other hand if the DOJ has flipped Konstantin Ignatov, won’t that be something. It still begs the question what on Earth happened to Greenwood though.
Guess we’ll find out either way at trial.
One final thing I’ll leave you with is this insight of life at the top of OneCoin;
The jury will hear that the participants in these conspiracies were extremely concerned for their physical safety, and took measures, including hiring bodyguards, and driving in armored vehicles, to protect themselves in response to threats of violence, and actual violence.
These threats and violence were directly connected to the conspirators’ involvement in the OneCoin Scheme, including the handling and movement of large amounts of criminal proceeds, often in cash.
The evidence at trial will also show that because the conspirators were engaged in a criminal scheme, they were unable or unwilling to report these threats or incidents of violence to law enforcement authorities, and chose instead to protect themselves through other means, such as by hiring bodyguards.
Pending a published order on Scott’s the DOJ’s motions in limine, stay tuned…
@Oz
Behind MLM is mentioned in these papers, BTW.
NOLINK://twitter.com/OneCoinInsider/status/1186388144146599936
Oh, I noticed it was already in the comments of another post. nm then.
“…suggesting it was a scam…”
The past tense is misleading. It is still ongoing. Just this last weekend I was not so subtly reminded by a “leader”.
The office in Sofia will open this morning, Valkova will channel her inner-Ruja and people will buy.
A very biased reporting i must say. Even lawyers whom are learned will not juxtapose a case with such wordings used in this article knowing fully well that the matter is still in court, so why dont u let the court decide instead of giving a mis-informed opinion?
Full of balderdash that doesnt work in the usa legal system. So what is the case against konstantin again? Why focus on only Scott only? What is the legal parameters in line with his fundamental right of movement, liberty and the rule of law?
The USA aint got nothing on there two. They will be set free, of course behind mlm wont report it and the haters will bury their head in shame.
It never fails to amuse me how the word investment keeps appearing when this has always been presented to me as an opportunity with no guarantee of any financial gain but simply education which can lead to financial gain.
Furthermore I get the feeling that the word money luandering is also being misrepresented.
Certainly in my experience of onecoin I never saw any money laundering infact quite the opposite, they are quite strict on KYC & AML. But then I don’t live in the USA.
I just wonder where the righteousness of the dollar sits in all of this. I guess the SEC dosen’t have anything to hide.
@Barr
Because I don’t live in some backwards country where people can’t speak their minds. And regardless of whether I have an opinion or not, the jury will decide the case.
Because this is a filing in Mark Scott’s criminal case. Konstantin is a separate criminal case.
This is the only bias here. Burying your head in the sand might work for you but don’t expect everyone else to follow suit.
@Dave
How many times was OneCoin presented to you? Not that it matters, because you can’t *winkwink*education products*nudge nudge* your way out of running a Ponzi scheme.
How long are you going to ignore the fact that emails between Ruja and Sebastian clearly lay out the intent to defraud? Education package bullshit came after the Ponzi coin concept was rolled out.
KYC was only used by OneCoin to prevent withdrawals. It had nothing to do with laundering hundreds of millions of dollars through shell companies and lying to banks to get approval.
None of which you’d have seen unless you were upper management, which clearly you were not.
Whether they do or they don’t has no bearing on the DOJ going after OneCoin scammers.
The reason why DOJ wants to introduce as evidence the fact that a loaded semi-automatic handgun was found from Scott’s car, is interesting:
Scott was living gansta life — OneCoin style. 😉
And the info about CW is a little puzzling to me because I thought that Sebastian Greenwood was arrested and extradited before Scott was arrested in September 2018, because Scott’s Search Warrant document, dated in August 2018, contains the same messages between Ruja and Sebastian that were in March 2019 Konstantin Ignatov Criminal Complaind document.
If CW is Sebastian, then I guess DOJ got the private messages from some other source than Sebastian directly, because this (completely redacted) section headline implies that CW was at large when Scott was arrested: “Co-Conspirator Statements Made to the CW Immediately After Scott’s Arrest”. Sebastian wasn’t anymore publically involved in OneCoin in 2018.
I think this quote indicates that Scott continued the money laundering activities after his arrest — with the CW:
The fact that CW was communicating with Scott even after his arrest, raises the likelihood that CW is in fact Konstantin Ignatov.
Oz
I know everyone is entitiled to there opinion here and I am only giving it from my personal perspective but I really get annoyed when people keep using the word investment.
As I have said b4 I have used the education within the packages I bought to enlighten me on Crypto Currencies.
(Ozedit: derail removed)
And right now I am convinced who are the biggest crooks and liars but I will leave that discussion for another day.
I am reminded of a famous saying,
“you can fool some of the people all the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.”
Now I really am not sure how this is going to play out but I am hopeful that onecoin will eventually succeed worldwide, regardless of the court case in the U.S.
The coin already has value on dealshaker, There are over 100k merchants. And even now more people are joining worldwide.
I am extremely grateful to be part of this project and there are many like me.
Dave
This makes the case that CW is Konstantin even more probable (page 5 of DOJ in limine document):
In this context CW is in addtion to Ruja and Sebastian and other redacted individuals (one of the must be Gilbert Armenta, IMO)….
I’ve been following BBC podcast. Why Igor , Duncan & so called whistleblowers not getting arrested???
They made millions & now presenting themselves as victims too. How pathetic….
@Dave Smith
Couple of points:
– Ruja herself said that all members who have coins are investors. See here: youtu.be/g-q75O9Ve8I
– You can get all the crypto education you ever need for free and in MUCH high quality content from true crypto professionals, there’s no need to pay OneCoin anything.
– There’s not 100k active merchants in DealShaker. There may be over 100k registered but not active. The web counter never decreases, so it can’t tell anything about the active merchant amount in DealShaker.
Obviously when there’s under 20k active deals (flea market mostly), there can’t be over 100k active merchants.
– DealShaker has very moderate traffic, considering all the hype. According to the statistics, only around 15.9k unique visitors visit DealShaker daily.
That is LESS than how many visits for example BehindMLM daily which is about 23.7k unique visitors.
See here: hypestat.com/compare/dealshaker.com/behindmlm.com
@Dave
I’m not interested in opinions when it comes to OneCoin. I’ve been putting up facts since late 2014.
On November 4th you will have your first taste of the legal ramifications of running a global Ponzi scheme.
Spare us the marketing garbage. We’ve been through Zeek Rewards (“but we’re selling VIP bids!”), and TelexFree (“but we’re selling VOIP packages!”), and Traffic Monsoon (“but we’re selling adpacks!”) to name a few. And we’ll still be here covering whatever happens after OneCoin.
OneCoin is and only ever was a Ponzi scheme. It collapsed in Jan 2017. What’s left is a shell of a pyramid scheme.
Whatever bullshit was built around OneCoin’s Ponzi points investment model doesn’t matter. I only hope when the penny finally drops it doesn’t hit too hard.
Really surprised on Duncan , after travelling first class all around the world , staying in five star hotels promoting Dealshaker on victims expenses & now for him it’s a scam only coz he promoting his own coin bycoi.. wt a lowlifer he is!!!
Now that the OneCoin promoters can buy gift codes with 100% ONEs (hilariously with rate 1 ONE = 0,5 EUR), doesn’t that make the more ponzi nature of the scam re-appear, because this way they can more directly “cash out” their coins/ponzi assett?
Wistleblowerfin
I am only giving the facts as I have recieved them.
(Ozedit: feel free to address the evidence as presented to you. Just because you received some bullshit marketing information doesn’t make them facts.)
Oz
My question for you is why have you been trying since 2014 ?
Dave
Feel free to respond to the information presented to you. Namely Ignatova referring to OneCoin affiliates as investors. And the Ignatova/Greenwood emails detailing OneCoin as a fraudulent investment scheme from conception.
Regurgitated pseudo-compliance marketing points will be marked as spam.
Trying what? This is an MLM blog. We cover MLM companies. OneCoin is just one of the hundreds (thousands?) of companies covered.
Dear Oz, as you have no doubt realised, the game plan has changed. It used to be that your site was to be avoided at all costs by the network upon pain of Ruja frowning. They’re so spooked they now that they attack you on your own forum!
“Poin poin”, “Dave Smith”, and surely many more to come, are the same person, or avatars controlled by them, their spelling and bad grammar is revealing.
If they keep it up, I’ll name them and the ridiculous attempts they’ve gone to hide their identities.
As a footnote, there is no pleasure in promoting DealShaker.
I wouldn’t actually mind answering everything possible what any of the OneCoin scammers/believers can throw here.
The network ‘s own tactics, of restricting information makes them very ignorant of the whole picture. We can easily destroy them with real verifiable arguments 100-0.
But it seems Oz is tired of seeing their BS.
My, I think warranted, hunch is that DOJ has now both Sebastian and Konstantin co-operating.
If this is indeed the case, DOJ is probably saving Sebastian for the later court proceedings (for the possible criminal proceedings of Ruja, Veska, Dilkinska, Valkova, Armenta, Ricketts, Ivanova, Abdulaziz, Taki and/or a bunch of unknown names, like Mobilopay/Aldratech principals) because Konstantin is more valuable and pertinent witness to the Scott’s case.
This is because the Phoenix Investment Fund connection is pretty central to Scott’s case — and there are indications in the DOJ court documents that Konstantin controlled and/or was a beneficiary of the Phoenix fund in the period after Ruja’s disappearance, for (account opening) documents and correspondence (“fffff in Ascot”) regarding the “UAE Fund” was found from Konstantin’s phone.
I think it would make sense that if they have Konstantin snitching, they’ll parade him in the Scott case instead of Sebastian.
Sebastian’s only publically known more direct personal connection to Scott was the (possibly faux) Madagascar oil field deal whose money trasnfers Scott facilitated, but it was “only” about xx millions whereas the Phoenix was about xxx millions.
Armenta and others Monely Launderers likely played much more crucial role from 2014-2016 — i.e. the “OneCoin Golden Era” (or, AurumGoldCoin era 😉 ), and the era before Scott, in which Sebastian was the key mastermind.
That’s why Seb might be reserved for the later use — namely for the vast criminality that happened mainly before 2017.
Btw, In this 2015 official OneCoin Macau 2015 event video, one can see flashes of the early Money Launderers.
At the 1:02 timemark Gilbert Armenta is in prominent position, sitting in table next to Ruja and Sebastian. At 1:50 one can see flash of the tattoo-armed Dilkinska cheering with Sebastian:
youtube.com/watch?v=vs2orYsq_UA
I don’t mind OneCoin scammers defending the Ponzi but when we get to:
*facts*
Yeah but I only ever saw educational packages, dealshaker etc. etc.
*facts*
Yeah but I only ever saw…
While you address their points, they don’t do the same in return. It’s non-constructive and adds nothing to the discussion.
Best to nip those types of spammers in the bud.
I’m not sure if this news or not, but the licence of the company running DealShaker doesn’t have a licence — and DS during its existence never had.
From DS T&C:
If you go to uaqftz.com/type-licenses/ and type the licence number 827, you discover:
DS was launched in Jan/Feb 2017, so during the whole time of its operation it has been run by an unlicenced company. Not only is the Belizean company behind OneLife Network struck off, but there is also this… Incredible illegality!
I agree. Time to start holding ALL people accountable for joining MLM schemes. ANYONE who recruits another person into the “business” and collects commission bears responsibility and should be penalized – net winners and losers alike.
The stolen amount would determine the size penalty for their crime; but ALL are guilty if they recruited, and they deserve a civil or criminal action on their record.
The burden of due diligence before involving others, and “should’ve known better” lies directly with the participant. If no one joins and no one recruits, the MLM scam dies.
@Semjon, Now you have done it. You’ve just shot down Dave Smith and Bar JAR’s “FACTS” of OneCoin being legal.
I only hope the both sign the petition to free Konstantin. They need their signatures.
As for DealShaker, that fantastic ecosystem that is going to change the world, Amazon does more transactions in one hour than DS does in one month. Real worldwide first-class shopping mart that DS is don’t you know.
Dave Smith,
In all seriousness you claim that you did not invest in OC but you said and I quote:
So let me ask you how many education packages did you purchase and which ones? Then tell me why you spent the amount of money you paid for the “education material” you bought. I look forward to your reply.
@Semjon
Good find, I haven’t seen that before.
Absolutely unbelievable that DealShaker’s operating and owner company has been unlicensed the whole time..
Everything in this scam scheme simply screams illegality.
Tweeted and notified the BBC.
Pack a bowl of that up for me! I haven’t been able to get dope that good since I let Panama.
The dog in the pic looks scared. He probably doesn’t know whether he’s going to be shot by a random gun in the house with toddlers, eaten (look at the two of them!) or scammed
According to OneAcademy itself only a fraction of the educational material is about cryptocurrencies/digital currency.
What comes to the financial education you have purchased from OneCoin, I think it’s safe to say that it was total waste of your money judging by the fact that you still can’t even recognize OneCoin as a scam.
You don’t even have to know about cryptocurrencies to come to the right conclusion. All you need is basic knowledge of economics. – I believe that’s the level 1 of the ScamAcademy education “Introduction to Finance” by Angel Marchev.
And like said countless times before, OneCoin has never been about selling education. It was started as a scam and it will die as a scam.
@Ari
I will try to make this my last post on this thread. It is in regard to the word “scam”.
I find this most offensive in my experience of onecoin it has never been & never will be a scam.
I can’t address all the issues people may have in regard the to onecoin, but I can address this one from my personal perspective.
I bought an educational package because I had already experienced the power of mlm.
This however gave me something extra, i.e. the information about the power of Crypto verses the devaluing value of the dollar, via Q.E.
Obviously virtually all world currencies are connected to the dollar, which makes it likely to effect world politics if it loses value.
Then I dicovered the importance and history of how against the initial remit of the dollar from the founding fathers of the U.S. it had disconnected from the Gold standard during the reign of Nixon.
I began to learn of all these world implications during my education with onecoin.
So it is fair to say I have been paid in full for any money I have put into the project regardless of any future development just on the basis that information is power.
(Ozedit: offtopic conspiracy theories removed)
@Dave
OneCoin copy and pasted everything in their PDF files from Wikipedia articles. And all those conspiracy theories you mentioned are no more than a YouTube search away.
Nobody paid OneCoin hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands of EUR for PDF files stuffed with plagiarized content.
You invested in points, with the expectation OneCoin would increase the value of the points – thus allowing you to cash out more than you invested.
With returns disabled since Jan 2017, it is a simple matter for you to come on here now and, in hindsight, claim otherwise.
You’re not fooling anyone.
More to the point OneCoin’s education packages, like everything else added to the core investment opportunity, is irrelevant.
OneCoin wasn’t even a Crypto Currency so how did you get educated on something OneCoin was pretending to be?
If anything that should’ve educated you enough to know it was never a Crypto Currency.
@Duncan
I think this site is doing a great job identifying the scammers.
My point is why ppl like u pretending to be a victim now ven u been promoting this shit for many yrs enjoying the lifestyle on victims expense. You should be held accountable as well.
I agree. He sent me a pathetic email to go with his coin I was stupid once. Not this time.
Quit it Duncan Arthur. Your too pathetic and should be aprehended as well including your cronies.
Finnish OneCoin leader Tommi Vuorinen is a rare kind of OneCoin promoter because there are not many others(only Simon Le?) who has been in OneCoin since 2014 and are still around to promote the scam.
Tommi is also of a rare OneCoin pokemon, because he is such a blabbermouth. In Finnish webinars, he and other Finnish leaders talk very openly about things that are normally kept secret from ordinary members.
(Perhaps it’s the Finnish democratic mentality that overrides the more “kafkaesque/mafia/soviet/secret society -like” modus operendi demands from Sofia. 😉 )
Muhammed Adeel and some other leaders have only teased/hyped that some major announcement is coming soon, but Tommi and others may have revelead it already. Here are some things from the most recent Finnish webinar:
– In near future (within 1-3 weeks) “the Company” is going to launch an exchange Road Map, including the launch date.
– “The Company” will update the DealShaker (NewDealshaker 2.0?), and the update will go hand in hand with the exchange opening — they’ll probably launch on the same date.
– “Master Distributor” titles will be terminated and be replaced by “Regional distributors”. E.g. there will be a “Regional Distributor” for Nordic countries, and the distributors will have a direct link to “the Company”. So there is going to be a restructuring of the OneCoin secret society hierarchy.
– “the Company” has been granted three licences: exchange licence, EU licence, and remittance licence…
– No detailed info about the Cenrtal Bank will be given, because of the haterz — same with the licences too.
– “The continuous provocation by the media against the company” has caused a great deal of trouble even within the Company: three OneCoin employees have been fired within the previous month and fourth is “on the trigger” because they are suspected of having leaked sensitive information to the outsiders!
– Great negativity surrounding “the Company” makes it hard to hire new employees, which may further delay things, according to Tommi. But everyting wil be fine. OneCoin is just living “a trasition phase”.
– Finnish OneCoin promoters trying to sort out things with the Tax Office, but to no avail. Confusion about tax issues remain. One promoter fantasizes about the future where taxes could be in ONEs to the Finland Tax Office. Tommi says that some other country will probably do it before Finland. LOL!
– New comission and fee policy coming to DealShaker. Black Diamond Reima Liukku says that the upcoming change was proposed by Peter Hjelte, and Sofia agreed to it. 25% “Ruja Tax”/Adverstisement Fee on sales in fiat will be lowered to 2-8%, or something like that.
– Liukku also says that a new DS platform is in the making, as a response to a comment on why even a simple feature such as country based product search isn’t working on the current platfrom.
– Liukku (with Hjelte) has been in contact with Veselina Valkova about trying to integrate Klarna payment method in to DealShaker.
(Source: youtube.com/watch?v=w9AvE7Av734)
As someone who came across this website (and what an excellent website it is!) when looking for more on the incredible, and ongoing, Onecoin saga, I thought I’d add the following hopefully helpful observations.
I thought this information might be useful when looking into lots of other scams as well, especially for onlookers from elsewhere in the world.
(It is quite common among all kinds of frauds operating elsewhere in the world to somehow drag “Europe” into their web of deceit.
Bernie Madoff for instance, when investors wondered about his conspicuous lack of options trading activity in the US, which was supposedly a pillar of his investment strategy, explained it away by claiming he got his options “in Europe”.
He even maintained a completely superfluous office in London to keep up that pretense, and counted on nobody among his American clients going to the trouble of looking further into European options trading, where he was of course equally non-present. Loads of other American fraudsters have used “Europe” in similar ways.)
An “I am not a lawyer” disclaimer applies, but I have had a long-standing interest in all kinds of scams and frauds, and I am fairly certain what follows is correct.
This claim, or rather three claims, simply makes no sense whatsoever. It’s just hot air. I’ll try to itemize the problems.
1.
When it comes to any kind of financial service licensing in Europe, we’re not talking about the EU, but about the EEA, the European Economic Area, which is the EU plus Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein (Switzerland has complicated, separate arrangements with the EU, which for most practical purposes duplicate the EEA situation of the other three countries mentioned).
Now of course when one is speaking informally one might say “EU” when actually meaning “EEA”, or “the EEA plus Switzerland”, but still, when dealing with specific financial regulatory matters, it’s already a warning sign that someone might be being economical with the truth.
2.
There is no such thing as an “EU license” or “EEA license”, for any financial services. All there is are licenses issued by individual EEA member states.
Most of these carry what are known as passporting rights, which means they’re valid everywhere in the EEA (there are certain kinds of financial licenses without passporting, but they don’t concern us here). The idea is that all member states are applying the same rules, and their regulatory agencies should operate equally efficiently.
But when someone claims to have an “EU license” or “EEA license”, for anything, they must be able to specify which member state they got it in, of course be specific about exactly what kind of license it is, and provide some link to the relevant regulatory agency where that claim can be checked.
If they can’t, or claim they got it from some EU agency directly, they’re scammers (or so completely clueless that they don’t really understand the facts about their own company, which is of course possible if somebody is only a salesman of some kind).
3.
I was somewhat puzzled when I first noticed the term “remittances” in Onecoin propaganda, as one important promised future activity of the company.
I only knew that term as a designation for money earned by people working in a foreign country, but sending a large proportion of their earnings back to their country of origin.
What would a cryptocurrency company (or in Onecoin’s case, a company pretending to have a cryptocurrenty) have to do with that?
As it turns out, “remittance” has a specific technical, and legal, meaning. There is such a thing as a money remittance license, with EEA passporting rights.
It is the easiest financial license to get, as it only requires a small paid-up capital of €50,000, and it only allows you to do exactly one very simple thing: take money from person A (who is the remittance company client), and transfer it to person B (who isn’t a client) in some way.
That alone makes it strange a cryptocurrency company would be interested in such a license, since cryptocurrencies aren’t money.
Also, the activities allowed with a remittance license are extremely restricted. (a) If the money involved is payment for goods and services, the remittance company may not be involved in any way in providing those goods or services.
Therefore, even if Onecoin set up a subsidiary with a remittance license, it couldn’t handly any Onecoin or Dealshaker related payments at all. (b) There can be no kind of system of accounts, for either the senders or receivers of the money.
The remittance company must get the money from the client on a transaction-by-transaction basis, and hand it over to the recipient directly. (c) The remittance company can only keep the money in their possession for a maximum of three days (I presume that means working days).
IOW, what’s the point of having a remittance license, valid only within the EEA? Anyone who wants to transfer money within Europe can just use the much simpler method of direct bank account to bank account transfers.
(This is what in the US is still called a “wire transfer”, very expensive and only used for large sums, but the standard everyday method of payment for most everything in Europe, and essentially free to anyone with a bank account.)
All you need is the recipient’s IBAN account number, it doesn’t matter which country they’re in. Going through a remittance company is only needed for people without bank acccounts, a vanishingly rare breed in Europe. That market is already very well-served, by large remittance companies operating worldwide, not just within the EEA, Western Union being the best-known one.
Their customer base is almost exclusively migrant workers, sending money home to countries where many people don’t have bank accounts (the people sending the money usually do, since almost no legal employment is paid in any other way than transfer into a bank account).
So, what on earth would something like Onecoin want such a license for?
The only plausible reason is that they know that on its own it’s a fairly easy license to get, and that they hope having one would give them a veneer of being “licensed in Europe” for other activities as well. But as it is, I seriously doubt they have even applied for one anywhere, since getting one would be pretty much impossible for a company involved in lots of other activities as well.
4.
What an “exchange license” is supposed to be, I’m not even going to try and guess at.
@Passing By – I learned this week that, apparently, over 800 ‘Exchanges” have been opened JUST THIS YEAR in Estonia. Sounds like its THE place for anyone and everyone to jump on the bandwagon.
Also, in terms of Remittance, the idea of cryptocurrency is that you can send it at any time, to anyone, anywhere in the world, directly peer-to-peer (wallet to wallet).
In real crypto’s case, P2P, it is also completely permission-less and without restriction. Of course, Onecoinists wouldn’t know or have experienced ANY of that, but that is how it works.
No license required …until you bring in custodianship via centralization.
#Weird
Good luck with that. The “new Dealshaker” could not get even paypal integrated as the whole business idea was based on selling goods for Ponzi points.
French (scammer) leader “Julien Zerbini” admitted in his webinar than the “company” won’t go in exchange because of the difficulty and the politician behavior against crypto currency, also because of fake news and haters;
So the “GREAT NEWS” is, the Onelife company will create his own bank (one bank to rule them one …) and of course that will take a lot of time. He promise direct onecoin payment credit card and a lot of other fantastic stuff, it’s beautiful …
Check this; youtube.com/watch?v=mvVUoE4dn2o
and also from the same dumb french youtube channel; you can see a fresh video from “Kralev car”, has always with a nice retarded music; youtube.com/watch?v=NaILUA9LgVI
The CW is almost certainly Velizara Ivanova:
twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1188894966975811584
Dumb question: In an exchange, wouldn’t you need buyers as well as sellers? Just who plans to buy OneCoin?
My impression is that everyone has been waiting to sell them. They are so wrapped up in getting an exchange, have they even thought about who will buy their coins?
(Of course this is hypothetical as there are no coins because OC isn’t a cryptocurrency. It’s just another stupid MLM scam.)
I have asked this from some scam victims and I believe I have also asked this directly from some top scammers (GLG and Inner Circle members). No answers. They all go silent when asked difficult questions.
It has been suspected that many of the members don’t exactly know how an exchange works. They might even think that they can just use it like an ATM to cash out their possessions.
Not in OneCoin universe.
To the cultists the “Exchange” is a place where one currency can be switched to another. Like that booth at the airport.
OneCoins go in, euros come out.
I doubt they have ever asked themselves where the money comes to the booth (or where the euros would come to the exchange).
EDIT: Ari managed to beat me to it. Well nice to know I’m not the only one who has come to this conclusion.
@Char
I’ve been bringing this up since 2014 “we’ll go public when xx% of coins are purchased” BS.
Scammers don’t need to explain who is going to buy the Ponzi points. Just the notion people will be able to put in sell orders is enough to stop people from reporting to the authorities.
By the time unfilled sell orders have piled up the scammers are long gone. This is otherwise known as the public exchange exit-scam model.
@Ari
Or they’re gullible enough to think OneCoin is going to pay out withdrawal requests ala xcoinx.
@Timothy Curry – that’s of course part of why Konstantin Ignatov truthfully said that Onecoin would never work with smart people.
They’re going on about things that are simply irrelevant to what it is they pretend to be doing, hoping to deceive the gullible.
Of course Transferring Onecoins between users, i.e. sellers and buyers on Dealshaker, should be possible at all times without any intermediary let alone any kind of license being needed, anywhere in the world.
For any transfers of real money, if what they’re doing is legitimate, all normal, legal, easy ways of transferring money are available. So why would anyone need a license of any kind, either for a cryptocurrency per se, or for conducting transactions using it?
A cryptocurrency is just a distributed database, in which data that is meaningless outside that particular database system is stored, it’s not something that provides regulated financial services.
As for “exchanges”, I also don’t see why those, in the present state of legislation, would require any kind of license, that is if all such an exchange does is put people wanting to swap cryptocurrencies for other cryptocurrencies, or for real money, in touch wich each other.
There are people who run “exchanges” where virtual objects that only exist within online games (including in-game “currencies”) can be swapped, and bought and sold for real money.
They don’t require licenses, I don’t see why calling such virtual objects a “cryptocurrency” or a “coin” would make any difference.
That there are so many supposed exchanges being set up in Estonia isn’t all that surprising. For years, it has been trying to profile itself as the best place for online business in the EU, and it makes it extremely easy for foreigners to set up businesses of any kind there, without requiring any physical presence in the country.
Inevitably, this has also attracted large numbers of shady operators. I’d treat any online business which happens to be recently incorporated in Estonia, yet clearly isn’t run by Estonians, with lots and lots of, to use a polite term, due diligence.
@Semjon – “Integrating” Klarna into DS is yet another fine example of Onecoin just throwing out a buzzword which they think sounds good.
Much like they go on about “mining”, which is complete nonsense in their case, as anyone with the most basic understanding of cryptocurrencies would know.
Even if Onecoin were a genuine functioning cryptocurrency, it was never presented as anything other than a centrally-issued one.
So why would there be any need for mining? The issuing company can just decide how many coins there will be, and create them all at once, for zero cost. Mining them is hogwash.
In the case of Klarna, that isn’t even really a method of payment, it’s a credit provider, which allows online sellers (or maybe bricks and mortar ones too, I don’t know) the possibility to offer an outsourced “buy now, pay later” option.
The twist is that the buyer doesn’t pay the usual interest for that credit, if they pay on time that is, Klarna gets a cut from the seller instead.
This makes sense for the seller as long as having this option generates more in extra sales income for them than they have to pay Klarna. Obviously Klarna is only going to sign a contract with a real company, selling real products for real money, since their business is extending credit in real money.
For which they are no doubt properly licensed everywhere they operate. Even if DS was based on payment in real money, it would be each of the individual sellers on there who would need to have a contract with Klarna, since DS itself isn’t doing any selling, unless I’ve seriously misunderstood how it’s supposed to operate.
(Has anybody, ever, genuinely bought anything they need on DS, anyway, include the Onecoin pushers?
It looks like a badly-done fake marketplace site, like something that might be put together to be shown on a screen for a brief moment in a TV show or a movie, because they don’t want to show a real Amazon or Ebay page.)
@PassingBy, I want to thank you for “passing by” to post and sharing your knowledge. Hope you continue posting to educate the OC members, as well as us “haters.”
It’s perfectly obvious that a lot of the Onecoin members don’t understand the concept of a crypto exchange, which is hardly surprising since they don’t understand the concept of a cryptocurrency to begin with.
Part of this may also be due to a problem with translation in the non-anglophone world.
In other European languages at least, the generic word “exchange” is often mistranslated into something that specifically means “stock exchange”. I’ve seen quite a few OC-related examples of this in both French and German (sometimes even journalists make this error).
A lot of the OC scammees generally clearly have the notion that being listed on a crypto exchange is the same thing, or at least a very similar thing, to a company getting a stock exchange listing, and see themselves as shareholders of a company before it goes public, who will automatically cash in afterwards (they probably don’t quite understand that process either).
This misapprehension is clearly fostered by Onecoin itself. If you listen to Ruja’s sales talks for instance, in what they now no doubt think of as the good old days of Onecoin, if you didn’t know any better you’d have to assume that this Bitcoin she kept talking about is a company, and the market leader, and that she was addressing a meeting of shareholders of a different company which saw itself as the up-and-coming challenger, taking market share away from Bitcoin.
That this makes absolutely no sense when talking about currencies, real or crypto, clearly didn’t bother the audience. (Ruja herself is no doubt intelligent and well-educated enough to know better.)
@passingby
You are correct in regards to klarna, (klarna is wery popular in sweden and expanding, the reason why the dumbshit peter hjelte brings it up is becuse hes is a retard,)
Dealshaker is in the world of online buisnes a travesty . Its a ”takes deeph breath” a couponmarketingen international classifiedads site…..(caah, ponzi points our crypto our klarna….dosent mater)
Its truly uniq in the same way that a ”sub of the day” filld whit dogshit would be, noone wants it, ecen tough it could easily be made
Not only do they not understand how an exchange works, they think because One would be traded on an exchange it makes them legal.
For all the hype about the OneLife Educational material and how wonderful it is (cough, cough), it does not talk about how an exchange works or for that matter about crypto-currency.
When OC launched in 2014 they promoted it as a crypto-currency backed by Aurum Gold. That lasted for about 6 months. Then Ruja declared OC was a financial services company.
Then in mid-2016 they realized they had to drop that and that is when the plagiarized educational material was pushed and they were an educational company, not a crypto-currency company. It has been one lie after another but the minions bought it hook, line and sinker.
One of the important elements of Mark Scott’s trial is that OC has denied that Mark Scott ever did business with OC/OL. His trial is going to expose that lie. But I know how OC will excuse away Mark really was working for OC.
They will claim that us “haters, Bitcoin lovers, and the Banks” fabricated information and documents that law enforcement used in a conspiracy to destroy OC. They will continue to deny that Mark worked for OC and the trial was a sham.
But Xcoinx didn’t work because Chinese were sleeping when Europeans were trying to sell. – Not kidding! Ruja herself was explaining that sale orders were expiring because of the difference in sleeping cycles.
Here: youtu.be/VT1zTQJd3YY?t=499
– However, Ruja forgot that the sale orders were usually pending for several days until expiring.
The same excuse was also used by Juha Parhiala. However, he used it to fool onecoiners in Thailand:
…
Source (starting at 21:50):
youtube.com/watch?v=gq83mJXWpYw&feature=youtu.be&t=1311
@Ari
Unless my memory is failing me xcoinx initially operated as a withdrawal portal. Affiliates put in withdrawal requests (bullshit sell orders) and the company paid them subsequently invested funds.
This collapsed when OneCoin stopped paying withdrawals (or in the months leading up to it), prompting all the timezone excuses rubbish.
@Oz
No, it really was introduced as an exchange. Quoting the official newsletter:
”This is first step the toward making the OneCoin cryptocurrency PUBLICLY TRADED! The state-of-the-art currency exchange platform, which allows users to buy, sell and exchange cryptocurrency. Open 24 hours a day, 5 days a week, xcoinx meets all the needs of users, willing to delve into the innovative world of trading.”
– Of course no one was interested in buying coins so sell orders were usually expiring. I believe the company used some of the commissions (the mandatory 40 % that was directed automatically to a ”trading account”) to cover at least some sales. However, they couldn’t cover the massive amount of sell orders so xcoinx was closed soon.
They never really dropped any claims, they simply piled them up.
Their website still prominently claims they’re a financial services company. As well as an education company. As well as a cryptocurrency company. And a forex trading company too (anybody ever heard what OneForex supposedly does?).
The opening page claims that “we give instant access to financial services”, and the About page opens with: “OneCoin Provides Borderless, Accessible and Affordable Financial Services”.
Of course, nowhere on the site do they explain which financial services those are, or how anyone reading that website would go about obtaining that instant access.
With one curious exception: they claim to have a remittance service – but then go on to vaguely describe something that doesn’t sound like remittances in the legal definition of that word.
In response to the normal “how can anyone possibly fall for such a load of obvious flimflam?” reaction most people have to something like that, one sometimes hears a theory advanded that clever scammers deliberately make themselves look like total idiots, and obvious scammers, to weed out anyone with any kind of critical thinking skills.
They only want the ultra-stupid and ultra-gullible. If that is true, OneCoin would be a fine example. Because surely, someone with a genuine PhD in law, like Ruja, could come up with something more plausible than what there is on that website? (Personally, I think the explanation in most cases is that most scammers simply aren’t very smart themselves.)
I remember xcoinx initially being the internal exchange. Maybe they just renamed the internal one and it flopped.
It’s been that many years I’ll go with your research.
So who are actually the principals running the one coin scam right now?
They obviously have all access to the complete database!
If you can’t follow the money trail because it is buried too deep, you can surely follow family.
@Oz, @Ari
You both have it a bit wrong (and a bit right).
As someone who has followed this scam for longer than what would be healthy, let me sum up the OneCoin “exchanges”:
– Initially (2014) the scam launched without any actual means to sell the coins.
– A web page “xcoinx.com” was set up. It had no means for trading coins, it was just a facade where one could check the current made-up value of the coin.
In general the OneCoin seems to have set the website up as follows:
* copy coinmarketplace front page.
* add Onecoin to the list with a fake market cap.
* done.
– June 15th 2015 (if I got the date correct) the “internal exchange” opened. It was integrated to the onecoin.eu backoffice (remember that the Onelife branding did not even exist back then!) and operated as follows:
* Investors could set a sales order for some amount of their coins, for a price set by the company.
* Anyone with cash in their cash account (recruitment bonuses or earnings from coin sales) could choose to buy a suitable sales offer.
* 40% of recruitment bonuses were put to a cash account that can only be used for buying OneCoins from internal exchange (creating the necessary cash flow to the internal exchange).
* max 50 coins or 1.5% of the coins in an account (whichever is less) could be sold a day.
* Open Monday to Friday
– The internal exchange was a place where most of the selling orders expired, since even with all the restrictions in place there were not enough buying orders to satisfy the demand.
– In Coin Rush London event (2016) Ruja announced the OneLife and OneCoin brandings and incoming blockchain 2.0 (with coin doubling).
The internal exchange was closed, awaiting new and improved exchange.
– The xcoinx.com website was modified to suit this purpose and launched as “external exchange” after the coin doubling of October 2016 (I believe the newsletter Ari quoted is from this point of time).
At least the general message was that xcoinx.com was NOT set up by OneCoin but and independent exchange.
Like the previous internal exchange, sales orders were limited, price was set by company and only buyers were the ones with forced bonuses to be used for buying.
– When the plans for IPO were announced (early 2017), the xcoinx was closed “until IPO takes place” and has been closed ever since.
@PassingBy
Back in the days when Kari Wahlroos was still on board he was instructing the members not to waste time on people who would be asking too many questions:
”We are not here to convince people. So if they don’t understand… Next!” ( = Move to the next victim!) “There’s seven billion people in the world. 5 percent of those will join like this (snaps his fingers) when you just talk to them. So it’s the amount of people you talk. So you don’t stop to convince anybody!”
– quoted from one of his training sessions
WOW gold has a single use, to be used to buy stuff in World of Warcraft. It’s not a means of exchange and not a currency.
(Nor will it ever be as it is generated by the game’s code on demand. Blizzard can dump a trillion WOW gold coins on the market by pushing a button.)
Cryptocurrencies are, in theory, a medium of exchange. I can use my Bitcoin to buy goods and services without changing it into something else.
(Albeit using Bitcoin as a currency is much less common than Bitbot rampers claim.)
A website which allows you to trade money for WOW gold or any other game currency is not offering a financial service; a website which allows you to trade money for another means of exchange is, same as any other bureau de change.
Any time someone says “we don’t need to be regulated because crypto” they are probably trying to scam you.
Sorry but I can’t resist as the analogy is so obvious:
OneCoin has a single use, to be used to buy stuff in DealShaker. It’s not a means of exchange and not a currency.
(Nor will it ever be as it is generated by the OneCoin Ltd. on demand. OneCoin Ltd. can dump a trillion OneCoins on the market by pushing a button.)
The frightening part is that this is all true.
@Otto
You are like the encyclopedia of OneCoin. 😀
I had a vague image of that first “exchange” in my memory but didn’t mention it because I really didn’t remember much of it.
I found this screencap from the early 2016 of some members discussing about it (reminds a lot like the later xcoinx):
tinyurl.com/y2dx6s4w
And like you said, xcoinx.com first existed only for the sole purpose for the members to check the current made-up value of the ponzi coin.
As an exchange xcoinx.com was launched somewhere in late 2016, probably in November.
I recall xcoinx was running maybe 3-4 months, being under maintenance every now and then until suddenly put in the everlasting under maintenance mode.
In May 2015 Dubai event (youtu.be/RDJrVeh_6dw?t=250 ) Ruja painted Xcoinx as a small independent start-up company “like us” that trades other cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin and Litecoin mentioned) as well.
OneCoin’s collaboration with XcoinX was supposed to be some kind of first small step to expand OneCoin outside the network, and to convince the bigger exchanges to eventually list OneCoin.
Ruja lied that she had talked to big crypto exchanges but they turned OneCoin down “because the sophisticated IT community looks down on us”, but luckily this heroic start-up Xcoinx agreed to list OneCoin.
Perhaps listing on a crypto exchange was the first version of a fable about OneCoin “going public”.
Xcoinx fable was put on hold until late 2016 to give a way to the second version of the fable which was to hand out OneCards loaded with OneCoins to people outside the network, as Ruja said in her late 2015 Stockholm presentation (youtu.be/iPPhX8j5CkY?t=1691).
Remember that Ruja’s original vision was to connect OneCoin to payment cards. IPO was the third version of the fable. ICO was the fourth.
“Coin offering” (not a real ICO) was the fifth. The current Veselina’s central bank exchange is the sixth.
It’s funny that this small, supposedly independent start up company closed its operation to wait for an IPO of a separate company — OneCoin.
Perhaps OneCoin bought Xcoinx because in Macau 2017 event Ruja listed Xcoinx as one of the sources giving value to OneCoin shares on a stock exchange (youtu.be/dMUxAfbAy1M?t=828). 😉
Even more funny or pathetic is that when OneCoin cancelled the IPO (I think around the time Ruja disappared), Xcoinx never re-opened.
They had no longer any reason to keep it closed. But hey, nobody should pay attention to these details — Ruja’s vision and dream is coherent and beautiful! 😉
Sorry for this long reply, but I don’t have the time to be brief. Since there are so many crypto-based MLM scams around these days, I hope it’s on-topic in a general way.
The same is true of any real currency, where the issuing central bank can do exactly that, and true of any cryptocurrency that is set up in this way.
There is nothing in the concept of a cryptocurrency which necessitates there being a preset maximum number of tokens, or there not being a single authority that can create them at will.
Bitcoin was created with such a set limit, and without a central issuing authority, because of its ideological inspiration, it’s not a defining characteristic of all cryptos.
All that is required is that there are tokens which cannot be duplicated, cannot be produced (or destroyed) as part of normal transactions, which only one person can have control of at any one time, and which can be transferred between owners directly.
What you’re talking about is merely a swap, a barter transaction. There is no medium of exchange involved.
Imagine I’m an amateur painter. Imagine also I’m a regular customer in a coffee shop, and I’m friends with the owner. He’s seen a painting I’ve done, thinks it would be a great addition to the decor of his shop, and wants to buy it.
I agree he can have it, in return for a month’s worth of free cappucinos.
You could therefore say that he has bought a painting, and paid for it in cappuccinos, without changing them into something else.
You could equally well say that I have bought a certain number of cappuccinos, and paid for them with a painting I’ve made, without changing it into something else.
Now replace “cappuccinos” with “bitcoins”. Or “a painting I’ve made” with “a bitcoin I’ve mined”. It’s exactly the same thing, legally.
People exchange goods and services for things that aren’t currency all the time. (Let me point out that I only use the term “cryptocurrency” because that is the term generally used for such digital constructs, and one doesn’t want to attach a “but they’re not actually currencies” disclaimer every time.)
Something is a currency if there is a law saying it is, and which lays down a lot of rules about how it is to be used, including a lot of rules which make its use mandatory in a lot of circumstances.
Not because a bunch of private citizens keep repeating it is, and trade it among themselves the way other hobbyists trade other collectibles.
If I were to start engaging in a large number of deals involving cryptocurrency tokens on one side, and either real money or items of considerable value on the other, at some point the tax man will notice, and will insist a monetary valuation be put on the non-monetary items involved, including those tokens, for tax purposes.
There are existing rules for that, just like there are for valuations of non-monetary inheritances for instance. But that doesn’t mean those items themselves have legally become money.
It would only be a bureau de change if there were jurisdictions in which cryptocurrencies are legally classified as foreign currency. As it is, as far as I know those don’t exist, and there isn’t a single currency exchange in the world which deals with cryptocurrencies, just as they don’t deal in in-game “currencies”, which as you say are actually bought and sold in real money.
There was an item in the news just yesterday about the owners of some major online game, I can’t remember the name, shutting down their in-game exchange, because the trade in their play money had become a vehicle for major money laundering operations.
Anything you can buy for real money at one end, and then sell again for real money at the other, in an untraceable way, can be used that way. Including of course cryptocurrencies.
That doesn’t turn the thing in between into real money. Because they’re so widely used for money laundering, the EU has recently come up with a legal definition of what a cryptocurrency is, so all member states use the same one.
That common-sensical definition very definitely does not equate them with actual currencies, or make them subject to foreign exchange trading regulations.
Actually, many claim the exact opposite, and pretend to be “licensed” in some mysterious way, or invoke the names of regulatory agencies or trade associations.
Very often, they claim they are in the process of obtaining licenses or permits, or membership of such associations, which always seem to be just a moment away from being granted, sometimes for years on end.
They often do this without being specific about what kind of license that would be. Onecoin is just one example of that. Their latest addition is that they pretend they’re going to get a banking license somewhere.
Simply buying or selling cryptotokens is no more or less regulated than buying or selling Monopoly money (which you can actually buy for real money online). Especially since absolutely anyone can set up their own cryptocurrency and start selling (or simply giving away, or allowing other people to create) their own tokens in a matter of hours, and thousands have already done so.
Unless you want to make that a regulated activity too, perhaps. Which would be rather difficult, since the currency is just a distributed database.
Crypto-related MLMs have barely got anything to do with selling tokens (that’s what exchanges do, which of course aren’t inherently scams).
Since a currency, whether a real one, or a pretend cryptocurrency, is not a way of making any money in itself, which is what MLMs are all about. Owning some euros, or some dollars, or some Bitcoins, doesn’t make you any money.
What crypto MLMs peddle are almost invariably things that legally qualify as securities, which are claimed to be somehow crypto-related, and which definitely are subject to all kinds of regulations, everywhere.
Absolutely anything can be used as a basis for securities.
The legal definition used in the US for securities arose from a case in which a company was selling real estate (in particular, plots of agricultural land with orange groves on it) as securities. That doesn’t mean that anybody selling land in the US is now subject to securities regulations.
I walked into that one. There is however still an important difference between WOW gold and fiat.
Central banks can print money but generally don’t if they can help it. If they do the currency depreciates, the value of existing fiat-based assets and income streams is reduced, and it becomes more expensive for the government to borrow money in its own currency.
Sometimes they do anyway but there is always a cost to the central authority when it exercises its ability to expand the money supply.
WOW gold is generated constantly by the game. I whack an orc, the game’s code spits out 10 new gold coins out of nowhere and expands the money supply.
The value of existing WOW gold is reduced but the central authority (Blizzard) has no reason to care.
Blizzard doesn’t value WOW gold, only WOW players do. When fiat currency falls in value the central authority (the central bank) does care.
The people who bang on about the possibility that the central bank might decide to print an extra trillion dollars are usually trying to persuade you to give them your (supposedly worthless) dollars in exchange for something that has much more substantial risk.
E.g. shiny metal that fluctuates in value dramatically from year to year, or crypto tokens that will be worthless once the attached Ponzi collapses.
As it happens I would agree with you, but advocates of Bitcoin claim it’s a medium of exchange.
No, a currency is a fungible means of exchange and store of value. What you’ve described is a fiat currency.
Most of your post I agree with. We only disagree on pedantic points of terminology.