FHTM pyramid scheme fined $169 million
Launched in 2001, Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing was shut down by the FTC in 2013. Unfortunately this was before I got around to penning a BehindMLM review of the company.
Described as “one of the most prolific pyramid schemes operating in North America” by Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway, FHTM is a familiar “lack of retail” MLM story. FHTM
claimed to have 160,000 independent representatives selling products and services including Dish Network subscriptions, vitamins, cosmetics and security systems.
Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing (FHTM) defendants (deceived) consumers by claiming they would earn significant income through selling various products and services if they signed up as FHTM representatives.
Participants were required to pay substantial start-up costs and monthly fees to retain their positions with the company.
To the extent that Reps can make any income,this income results primarily from recruiting new consumers to become FHTM Reps and not from the sale of products or services.
After conducting its own investigation, the court-appointed receiver determined that FHTM’s main business was recruiting new members and not selling products and services as it claimed.
More than 81 percent of the payments to participants were based on recruiting new members and not for the sale of products or services.
Instead of selling products and services to actual retail customers (external to the income opportunity), most, if not all of FHTM’s revenue was sourced from its affiliates. No doubt products and services were attached to the fees affiliates paid, but that wasn’t enough to absolve FHTM.
Roughly a year and a half after the FTC filed charges against FTHM, the case has now concluded:
The operators of a Kentucky-based pyramid scheme, which enrolled more than 350,000 consumers throughout the United States, Puerto Rico and Canada in the last four years, have been banned from multi-level marketing under a settlement with the Federal Trade Commission and the states of Illinois, Kentucky and North Carolina.
The settlement also requires the operators to surrender assets totaling at least $7.75 million, which will be returned to consumers.
The order imposes a judgment of more than $169 million, which will be partially suspended when the defendants have surrendered certain assets with an estimated value of at least $7.75 million, including assets of the deceased defendant Paul C. Orberson’s estate.
The full judgment will become due immediately if the defendants are found to have misrepresented their financial condition.
Oh, and for anyone following the TelexFree SEC case, this should certainly sound familiar:
The court subsequently halted the deceptive practices, froze the defendants’ assets, and appointed a receiver over the corporations pending a trial.
Ditto this for those following WakeUpNow:
According to the lawsuit against FHTM, its “complicated and convoluted compensation plan” ensures most people make little or no money.
I reviewed WakeUpNow in early 2013, concluding that
WakeUpNow’s membership options and clear distinction between retail customers and company members are a strong plus for the company.
That said, the complexity and extremely poor manner in which the WakeUpNow compensation plan virtually overshadows this and drags the whole thing down as an income opportunity.
A year and a half later, I’m still unsure of what WakeUpNow’s retail figures actually are. And from the looks of it, without a regulatory investigation and subsequent publishing of their findings, we might never know.
Troy Dooly, a paid consultant of WakeUpNow, only yesterday published a YouTube video in which he claimed
[14:05] Something I want to hit right now… is “retail sales”.
I don’t know why critics get “hyet” (high?) on retail sales, because none of the regulators do.
Despite Dooly’s claim, just late last year the SEC issued an investor alert that mentioned the importance of retail sales in MLM:
Recently, the SEC has sued the alleged operators of large-scale pyramid schemes for violating the federal securities laws through the guise of MLM programs.
When considering joining an MLM program, beware of these hallmarks of a pyramid scheme:
-MLM programs involve selling a genuine product or service to people who are not in the program.
-No demonstrated revenue from retail sales. Ask to see documents, such as financial statements audited by a certified public accountant (CPA), showing that the MLM company generates revenue from selling its products or services to people outside the program.
Whether or not WakeUpNow management similarly believe retail sales in MLM are irrelevant is unclear.
Update 31st July 2021 – The video referenced in this article has been marked private as of July 2021.
As such I’ve removed the previously available link to the video.
“None of the regulators do”?
I guess SEC didn’t talk retail with him then.
Lookout ACN…. World Ventures…. Ignite… Ambit… your day is coming. These companies are huge and are operating on the same premise FHTM did. There is change in the air.
BTW OZ… would love to see your review of ACN. Its FHTM X 10.
ACN is on my list (of older companies to review). I get around to that list less than I do the newer opportunity list!
Troy Dooly is so disgusting. It’s bad enough that the so called “legitimate” mlm branch likes to pretend this site doesn’t exist, but this guy goes above and beyond that to attempt to discredit you and help obvious frauds swindle more people, while claiming to be looking out for the little guy.
What other “critics” would he be talking about? This is like Lyoness all over again. He’s just a mouth piece for anyone who gives him enough money. A pyramid scheme or ponzi owner is the organ grinder, and he’s the little shill monkey that dances to their tune.
The worst thing about this is that it benefits literally everyone when half assed pyramids and ponzis are called out as such. If the “legitimate” mlm sector got together, with their respective amounts of clout, all of them together saying nay to a scam would be like throwing a wet blanket on top of a match. Smothered.
If a scheme can’t get recruits, it means can’t get traction, and so it dies a quick death and fade into obscurity. The thing that can be said with absolute certainty after the collapse of dozens of these things is that any mlm without a viable retail product = unavoidable and guaranteed collapse.
It’s totally obvious when you look at this site’s review history and you see all of these generic, copied and pasted scams, most of which don’t even have a real product, much less one that people (who aren’t involved in the business) actually want to buy, and what happens to them a few years down the line.
On a side note, it reminds me of when Todd Hirsch showed up here and whined about how you called his cycler out on being an obvious pyramid that was destined to collapse.
It did, and then 3 months later, he came back here again and claimed it was a “reasonably successful program.” Well for him, maybe, because it’s obvious that the only person he wanted to help was himself.
What’s very obvious though, is that Troy Dooly is a liar, he’s a fraud and he ignores the facts in favor of getting paid, to the detriment of the people who trust him.
It’s a huge slap in the face to anyone who stood by this man after Zeek, then to see him go around and pretend TelexFREE had any legitimacy, when it’s probably going to be in the top 10 of the biggest ponzi schemes in history.
And then he actually has the nerve to call you out and pretend like there isn’t a reason to be massively concerned with a pyramid scheme that’s hemorrhaging like it got jumped by six men with knives. Apparently a business losing more money than the vast majority of people will ever see in their lives a year is nothing to be concerned about.
Of course Wake Up Now is in decline! The two year mark is when practically EVERY pyramid scheme starts to fall apart! Most never even make it this far or get this much money involved, and the only way they survive is by breaking into other markets and recruiting more people.
You know, like Herbalife and how they target the Hispanic community. Which doesn’t actually fix the problem, but at least keeps them going for a little while.
But he doesn’t know why “critics” care about retail. The regulators don’t. And he tries to pretend like he’s one of the “good guys.” He just tells people what they want to hear so they dismiss any doubts in their minds.
You remember when these things at least pretended they sold stuff to people? They don’t even try anymore. Imagine if this site didn’t exist and nobody was there to call these people out on their bullshit. It’s very telling how people in the industry attempt to demonize this site, and yet say nothing when career criminals make their livings off the backs of the hopes and dreams of anyone they can exploit.
People like Dooly will be your best friend in a heart beat, if you pay them enough. Evidently there’s a lot of them.
I followed FHTM in great depth. The Reps have gone mostly onto Zija and ACN and a few to Arrix and Veema.
The one’s that went to ACN and Zija still defend the FHTM model and its creators with a passion. One conference call had top people in FHTM saying that “we know we will never find anything as good as FHTM but we decided that ACN was a close second so that is where we are going” (doesnt say much for ACN does it?).
They ALWAYS claimed that FHTM was the highest paying comp plan in direct sales.. Not sure how 1/4% on slim margins from services is better than 20% of margins that are 1000% higher from products, but that is the mentality you are dealing with here.
I talk to people on a weekly basis that still have Paul Orberson, Tommy Mills and select others as GODS.. If that thinking doesnt cross the line, it certainly borders on some SERIOUS mental issues.
I mean seriously, The guys knowingly reported grossly false numbers to the feds, the DSN and everyone else including their own people and straight up LIED to their faces and they still worship these folks and their company.
Tommy Mills got off easy, He should be in JAIL along with the rest of the people that came to his defense and still do. I will respect the death of Paul Orberson but if he was still alive I would have some pretty harsh things to say about HIM too.
If you ever meet an X-FHTM rep, that still defends that company you will see what completely clueless douschebags they still are.
Sorry to get personal here, im just soooo sick of these BS deal’s and the people they create. Its not all their fault, they were taught to follow the leader rather than to think on their own and become one. They have NO CLUE how to compare one company to another.
95% of them could not accurately draw out their OWN pay plan if their life depended on it.
When you publish it, get ready for the blowback from the conspiracy theorists who plant the seed evil Democratic politicians are behind attacks on ACN. You’ll also perhaps hear from the “Birthers.”
Without having studied FHTM in great detail, my impression of FHTM is it’s a cult of personality centered on Orbison, who managed to create various clones of himself, in his “disciples”. This would not be that bad if Orbison hadn’t picked a pyramid scheme (with very few of its own products, mostly added late and few if any heard of) and it also attracted a bunch of recruiter/profiteers who had even LESS morals than Orbison. (You can argue how much he has later).
Cult is an understatement. They had “prayer meetings/groups” at their events. The used God in most of their recruiting seminars and trainings. Seriously, the best they could come up with on teaching people how to build a business was getting them all excited and telling them not to quit.
When they did their “dont quit” segments (which made up most of their “training”) it was just a series of rags to riches stories frought with “GOD spoke to me” and “GOD gave us this program” speeches.
“Are you willing to go home, look your children in the eye and tell them you want to quit on GOD?”
The rags to riches stories, we know now, were flat out LIES because we saw what these people were ACTUALLY making.
I spoke to several of the “top earners” who were DIRECTLY asked to lie about their income. One, even has the conversation on tape. There were inarguable and egregious, felony level, criminal activities going on there on a LARGE scale. Backed by “GOD”.
Thats why the bulk of their distributor base was located in the US Bible Belt. OR Because they got traction in the Bible Belt it became a cult in every sense of the word. I dont know which came first.
Joe Isaacs is what ruiened FHTM. I blame him for it all. Paul and Tommy were good people who cared deeply about their reps. I am so sadden by this news and witch hunt.
I followed Paul to Zija and I am Zija for life. Yes I did hold prayer meetings for FHTM and Paul because they are good people.
I am sick and tired of “Common Sense” attacking these good people.
Witch hunt? Oh please. Your idols were pyramid scheme hucksters, get over it.
We promted real products and services at fhtm that people wanted. I earned 3 cars (2 lexus and a bmw and was a member of Ring of Honor). FHTM changed my life and blessed many people like Zija is doing now. God bless Paul and Tommy!
All I am saying is many people don’t feel FHTM was a scam. We consider Zeek the scam. Zeek was what was hurting FHTM and the easy money they got at Zeek. We worked hard for our money at fhtm promoting products and services.
There’s no feeling regarding a business model and revenue flow.
FHTM was paying out primarily on recruitment. What you or anyone else feels is irrelvant.
Promoting products and services exclusively to an affiliate downline still qualifies the company as a pyramid scheme.
The laws should be changed then. Many of us reps would have bought the fhtm products even if we were not reps they were that good.
If FHTM weren’t interested in retail sales using MLM, then they should never have deployed an MLM business model. They should have used a single-level affiliate compensation plan.
They are the problem, not laws prohibiting pyramid schemes.
If FHTM is not a legit model then how can ACN be answer that question because they are fhtm on a larger scale. They only went after Paul for his belief in Jesus Christ.
FHTM was nothing but a fraud. I lost a lot of money in FHTM trying to build that business.
I listened to people like Todd Rowland on how to build and how much money he was making. I even went to his big house that I think he lost.
FHTM was a scam and a lot of people were hurt by it.
Sean, I can guarantee Jesus Christ does not believe in scamming others, which is EXACTLY what FHTM was doing.
The FHTM settlement is good news and bad news. The FHTM saga is over, as they have settled out of court for $7.75 million. That part is the good news.
The bad news is the government apparently didn’t go after any “net winners,” which means these people not only profited, but those who lost money will get pennies on the dollar.
It appears YOU are one of those people, Sean. There were 350,000 who were dooped in the past 4 years alone, which means they each get an average of about $22.
Haven’t looked at ACN so no idea.
Regardless, this is about FHTM, what ACN do or don’t do is irrelevant within that context (deflection).
Yeah, that’s obviously it. Couldn’t have been the giant pyramid scheme.
The reps were not scamming people just building what we thought was a legit business model. This is not a rev share no one should get their money back. You choose to lose your money in fhtm by not working the business.
Oz, it seems that there would be alot of interest in an ACN review :).
Hope you can find the time… I know the new companies are popping up like crazy and that keeps you hopping…. Thanks for keeping them on your list, and I will look forward to that review when you get to it.
Ha ha.. And heeere they come. ha ha. See what I mean about the totally bizzare mindset?
Todd did not OWN the house. It was a Rental. It was rented on weekends and paid for by the company to perpetuate the fraud. I can put you in touch with the owners to verify this.
Its pointless to relive this BS all over again but seriously. This company operated on Fraud in its most pure and blatant sense. The only reason ANYone made money is because downlines were being shuffled around. In part to try and throw off the regulators. If you were in any kind of senior position this would have happened to you.
The comp plan was changed no less than 20 times, also to throw off the regulators. They stole money every time, called it a RAISE and you dumbasses believed it without ever bothering to run the numbers on your own.
Paul had a position in Zija at least 2 years before all this became public. Some leader, wow.
How is ACN still operational? Good question. Perhaps because they dont try to sue their own people and drag them through the court system to the point they have to fight back and blow the whistle or lobby for investigations.
The company was under serious investigation LONG before Joe’s case came into the picture (as made clear in the full report that the FHTM wierdo’s never bothered to read) but I am sure he helped it along. Kudos to him.
Common Sense you seem so upset about fhtm and a hater why? If you are in the know where you getting your facts from? I never want see Todd Rowland ever again. Zija is a good company and stop attacking it. People are allowed a mistake or two in their life.
Todd’s house cost him 60k a month get your facts straight Common Sense. You are not an FHTm big short. What was your rank?
I was never in FHTM. I know how to do 3rd grade math. BUT, I CAN get Todd and the owners of the rental property on the phone with you right now to set the record straight if you would like. OR you can just look up the tax records like any other idiot can.
Mistakes are one thing. I can appreciate that. Lies and denial are another thing completely. If you say FHTM was not an illegal pyramid deal, when that is EXACTLY what it was By EVERY DEFINITION, then it goes WAY beyond “mistake” my friend.
Common Sense why are you being such a hater against fhtm if you were not in it? Todd rowland should be in jail along with the others that went to Ariix.
They were if 100% or close to that of their income was derived via recruitment.
Given that FHTM’s income was 100% or close to that derived via the recruitment of affiliates, they above statement is true for most of FHTM’s affiliate-base.
Given that there’s nothing legit about recruiting people in MLM and getting paid for it, this is just the “we knew nothing!” excuse.
When “working the business” equates to recruiting new suckers into the scheme, your logic falls apart.
If you read the FTC’s original complaint (2013) against FHTM closely, you’ll notice this in paragraph 23:
So, in the FTC’s view, FHTM had been advancing a fraud for 12 years.
Next, think of how many times you’ve seen the Ponzi/pyramid apologists trot out a line such as this: “if Opp XYZ was a Ponzi/pyramid, the FTC (or SEC) would have acted against it long ago.”
The ASD crew said it. The Zeek crew said it. The TelexFree crew said it.
FHTM explodes that dangerous myth, sometimes known as MLM “training.”
Plenty of people have noted plenty of times that Madoff operated for 30 years or so without getting caught. Like FHTM, Madoff exploded the myth.
Regardless, the serial hucksters don’t care.
I’m afraid that’s a standard “the system worked for me so I don’t know why it didn’t work for you; my best answer is you’re one lazy SOB” excuse.
You have no idea why the system failed for anyone else or succeeded for you. In fact, you probably don’t even know what are the chances of success in FHTM as defined in income disclosure statement every year. It’s MUCH MUCH lower than you think.
Feel free to declare all of the low-earning people as lazy non-Bible-thumping SOBs, if it makes you sleep better at night.
In a recruitment driven opportunity, a certain percentage of the particcipants are GUARANTEED to lose.
In a whole downline, the average participant will manage to recruit exactly ONE new participant. That average result will always be the same. Your entire downline will have exactly as poor results as any other downline.
I talked to one guy, His best month was about $20K if I remember right. After chargebacks the “residual” or income from product sales(consumption) was less than $800 of that. The rest was from recruiting. He had 16,000 people in his organization.
He only had one or two months like that. He was one of the fortunate ones that did not get his downline moved to someone else “temporarially” (so they could promote someone else and “show success) But regardless, he only did that a couple times.
He said his average “residual” after chargebacks was less than 1/8 of a percent on the MARGINS of product sales. That is NOT 1/8% on total product sales Thats 1/8% on the PROFIT from them which is less than 4%. They got paid 1/8% of 4%. THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE TO SELL A PRODUCT.
The average pay per month for his last year was less than $2000 with Most months being around $1200 TOTAL with 16,000 people on the team. He was “asked” to tell everyone he was still making $20K/month and offered a small bonus to do so. Thats when he developed a shred of ethics and quit to join Zeek Rewards. ha ha. Some people you just cant help ha ha.
Oh, yeah and he qualified for the car LEASE too. He got a couple of them. The company covered 3 whole payments for his FREE CAR’s. ha ha.
Sean, I don’t know when it is going to happen, but some day you are going to wake up to the idea FHTM was shut down because it was clearly operating illegally. What part of “illegal” do you not get?
Why is everyone ignoring the “net winners” and paltry settlement in the FHTM scam?
Also, the headline is VERY misleading. FHTM has to pay only $7.5 million, NOT $169 million, unless they lied about their financial status.
I believe it says the judgment was $169 which should more or less reflect the damages they caused. They can afford to pay only $7.5 Not much to cheer about.
I think the 7.5 mil was all they had left from all they could seize. Properties included. The only asset the company had was paul’s house.
The corporate building was just rental space. They didnt even occupy the whole building. Their wharehouse and shipping dept. was smaller than my garage. Obviously they didnt have to worry much about product storage or shipment.
Much of the profits were skimmed off the top as reflected in the report. (again, that the FHTM, in-bread, freaks are to blind or scared to read) I think it was about 40-70 million if I remember right. 169 million is probably all the company ever “made” in its 11 years or so. Thats probably where that number came from.
Clearly “Common Sense” is Joe Issacs. The guy has had vendetta since he got into FHTM.
No one puts a gun to your head to sign up. You sign on the dotted line, pay the enrollment fee…and then here is a novel idea… YOU WORK THE BUSINESS!
All of these people who are angry clearly signed up and thought it was “easy money”…guess what, you have to actually DO SOMETHING.
(Ozedit: derail attempts removed)
Why didn’t they go after the net winners for more money, as they have done with other MLM scams?
I think it might be the timing FHTM went down. We’ve only really seen action against net-winners post Zeek Rewards (2012).
Not to beat a dead horse, but it’s a business. Like any other. You must WORK IT. It is based on recruiting new sales people and selling PRODUCTS–which is what makes it legal. A pyramid scheme ONLY recruits.
FHTM had products and sold them and paid on them. I know, because I have the pay checks to prove it.
(Ozedit: offtopic derail attempt removed)
From the FTC:
From the SEC:
Congratulations, you’ve just passed SCAMMING 101. That’s the same BS on every scammer textbook, along with “everyone who does not join our company are envious, negative people”.
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempt removed)
And FYI part of the problem is the MLM law is so gray…it’s ok for this but not ok for that or this ok in this state but not in this state.
I assure you FHTM was legal. And if they found out they were not in compliance they fixed it. (Montana, NC, etc… See every state is different!). However, they were used as a skapegoat, an easy target. Mark my words. America is changing. And NOT FOR GOOD.
Only 1/2 of the government is liberal…cough..Democrats..cough, but doesn’t make an excuse to participate in a ponzi. unless you like losing money, ripping people off and or having a chance to go to prison. 😉
Both the FTC and SEC have federal jurisdiction. You’re full of shit.
IF you think FHTM was legal, then you need some compliance course training, now required by the FTC. Focusing on recruiting rather retail sales is illegal. “Check Flashing” AKA Income claims..illegal…etc
I’m not gonna stoop to lack of vocabulary where I must resort to foul language. So with that I am done. Clearly I will not change your mind, nor did I intend to.
I know the truth. And I’m ok with that.
Good luck Joe.
It’s not changing his mind Jane, its looking at how and where the money is made. If its on product sales, then your fine.
you’re quoting “YOUR” truth, not “THE” truth.
“YOU” may have concentrated on retail sales, but the authorities proved in court that was not true for the great majority of participants in FHTM, making it an illegal pyramid scheme.
It’s not about changing anyone’s mind, it’s about facts and the complete distortion vacuum FHTM affiliates such as yourself live in.
You’re a bullshit artist, straight up.
Exactly, the truth as you know it.
Which is only ONE PART of the complete truth.
This is known as the “fallacy of composition” and/or anecdotal fallacy, i.e. whatever you experienced must be the ENTIRE truth, even though it’s actually just “truth to you”.
Kevin “The MLM Attorney” Thompson have a full list of MLM related legislations in all 50 states, as well as Federal, but the truth is if you follow the Federal guidelines then you are safe on the state side.
Did your upline even bother showing you that? Or is that a standard retort “I don’t know what’s legal so I don’t care about the rules”?
Your assurances mean nothing, actually. It’s merely your personal opinion, backed up by your personal observation, which by its nature, is limited to what you can see and experience, which is likely to be an extremely sanitized (by you or your upline) experience. There is such a thing as self-delusion, you know… Or wishful thinking: like “I don’t see that as illegal, therefore it isn’t”
Or to cite Stephen Colbert… Jane’s citing “truthiness”, not the truth. 🙂
I don’t know what you mean by the “timing.” Going after net winners is an old concept, it was used with Madoff, several years ago.
In the MLM sphere…
I doubt these lawyers are only familiar with MLM and unfamiliar with the broad legal concept of net winners.
Can’t answer that.
All we’ve got to go on is history, and pursuing net-winners in MLM Ponzi and pyramid schemes only seem to have taken off post Zeek Rewards.
I’m not saying it’s your fault, I’m asking about why the government didn’t address the net winners.
Clearly you have not gotten any smarter since the FHTM days. I see this all the time. ANYONE that has anything bad to say about FHTM must be Joe Issacs incognito ha ha. After all according too FHTM reps he made up thousands of screen names for his vendeta right?
Every negative comment on FHTM was Joe pretending to be someone else. It couldnt possibly be any one else, because FHTM was such a pillar in the community.
I mean seriously, you only had (at least) 1.5 million people that quit after they realized they got scammed, during the companies tenure. It couldnt possibly be some of them.
Yes, if you signed up you had to “work” and by that you mean sign 20-30 people a month up because 97% of them are going to quit in 90 days once they realize what they signed up for. Not ONE of you can read and interpret a comp plan.
All you know is that Paul is a GOD and its so great you are doing backflips and you cant sleep at night. The rest doesnt matter so “SIGN HERE”.
If it was so great you would probably have more than 1 person out of 20,000 that made a 6 figure income (not including the ones that quit) Mind you 98% of that income would have only been based on recruiting.
You people are so BLIND its unbelievable. You dont even know because you have never compared it to anything legit. You just blindly follow the moron ahead of you. No class, No ethics, No integrity. If you made anything at all you still had NO ONE on your team EVER creating any significant ongoing income.
You DID NOT READ THE RULING. You DID NOT read WHY Joe Issacs had the Vendeta. You CANNOT think for yourself and you will NEVER have any meaningful success until that changes. EVER!
That’s up to the FTC, SEC, and whatever other agencies that are involved.
Though SEC and the state-level SEC equivalent are really hammering away in recently years. California (under Jerry Brown) kicked Zamzuu / YTB hard. Then it’s Montana in the headline for a year or two. Now it’s all Massachusetts. 🙂
I find it amusing that you chose to give so much power to one man… Joe Isaacs, the boogeyman of FHTM! The man that haunts Orbison even after Orbison’s death! Muahahahaha!
But really, what exactly *had* he accomplished? He complied with every cease and desist order FHTM whipped up (after protest) and he publically claimed to be the reason FHTM died, but few people who really knew the truth believed him. See Quatloos and Realscam when his story got taken apart instead of at face value (like you did).
If you really attributed FHTM’s death to Joe Isaacs, you’re actually HELPING HIM by bolstering his image, which seems to be the exactly OPPOSITE of what you intend.
And *that* would be tragic.
I usually never bless any one on these idiodic forms of media with my two sense but I find it necessary.
First and foremost Jane Doe is totally delusional.
Second of all I appreciate the comments of “Common Sense”.
Thirdly K. Chang has been bashing me since I took down FHTM years ago. Give credit where credit is due – I was the catalyst that took down the Orberson gang of criminals. In spite of what your pea brain might think, they NEVER beat me in any lawsuit!!!!
I am however very disappointed that the FTC only recovered 7 Million of the 40 Million Orberson & Mills took in the few years before their demise. Orberson was far from a God and I am sure he has nightmares of me in hell.
For all you losers that thought FHTM was legal – you need a good spanking.
Arguing with Joe Isaacs is a waste of time. I am pleased to say we don’t live in the same delusional world that he does but his world is connected to ours by internet.
His inability to speak the truth about even things he can be proven wrong about is exceeded only by his grandiose visions of self importance. I don’t know how many times he was banned over at the Q but I’ve dropped hammer on him over at RS at least twice so can speak with confidence that Oz will not tolerate this thread becoming another Joefest.
For anyone wanting an example of why the anti-scam community writ large will have nothing to do with this guy, Joe starts posting as “FHTM” near the bottom of the first page of this thread:
I’ve spoken to Joseph Isaacs on the phone on a few occasions and read his book. Your link merely proves he was focused on taking down FHTM. Unless you’ve interacted with him as I have, then you have NO idea what you’re talking about. LOL
Bashing you? Hah! Nope, I just got tired of you spamming Realscam using the handle “FHTMClassaction”, I think that was. Or was that Skapegoat? Or both?
Never heard of you until I ran into the Quatloo forum by accident.
Stick to running your ISG Telecom, Mr. Isaacs. And pick better clients than TelexFree next time.
For the record, I mentioned Mr. Isaacs exactly 5 times on my blog… 2 as a victim of FHTM’s reputation management, 2 of him helping TelexFree, and 1 of him apologizing for such.
If he really thinks I’ve been “bashing him… for years”, it’s yet another sign of him inflating his self-importance or pretend paranoia.
Since we’re not talking FHTM, I don’t see that as relevant.
“Bashing him for years” is relative, e.g. naming him as a “FHTM victim” can feel like “bashing”, and “2 times” can feel like “for years” (if you have touched the right nerve).
You have to remember he calls himself “skapegoat”. it’s even name of his book, IIRC. Of course he’s an FHTM victim… unless you’re suggesting he’s a masochist…
Nope, I just analysed whether his interpretation was exaggerated or realistic. “2 times” can FEEL LIKE “several years”, if someone touches the right nerves.
Sometimes, M_N… I don’t know if you are being sarcastic or you’re just naturally low-key’ed. 🙂
Get a life guys, like Mr. Isaacs has. You havent a clue. Be glad he hasnt turned his wrath against any of you.
After many conversations I came to realize he hates Ponzi schemes and will help in any way to eliminate them. His ISG clients are of nobody’s business in this forum.
Damn these freaking parasites! Sticking to the flesh of sociaty, gorging on money not ment for them!
That Paul character clearly is one hell of fat intestinal parasite! He even suckered his kin and gorged himself on the spoils!!…….f**ing parasites…
Well, at least they are not a hedge fund! :/
Get serious. Isaacs was not only a victim of the FHTM ponzi scheme but also a victim of FHTM’s delusional lawsuit that did nothing to stop them from being shut down and losing everything.
Mills & Orberson should have paid Isaacs years earlier and they would still be in business screwing the world. Doesnt anyone here have anything better to do then this BS?
FHTM is gone, the principles are banned from MLM and they have lost their remaining assets while Isaacs enjoys his grandiose lifestyle in retirement at a young age. Ha Ha Ha!!
@One who knows
I simply analysed whether his feeling of being bashed for years was exaggerated or realistic.
That was never in doubt. The doubt is how much of a role did he really have in the downfall of FHTM.
By this logic, we can’t attack Nehra either, since his clients are nobody’s business either, eh?
But Joe apologized, and that’s enough for me. Just wish he applied the same sort of diligence he did to FHTM to all his clients. Less for us to talk about and more talk about scams.
So uh, why was he helping TelexFree set up their bogus telecommunications network then?
That’s a funny sort of retirement.
I asked the same question of him recently and this was his answer. TelexFREE contacted him last year to get them an FCC international long distance license and then again earlier this year to get VoIP licenses in various jurisdictions.
He was told that TelexFREE was a VoIP company and NOT AN HYIP Ponzi Scheme. After doing extensive work (sometimes clients beg him for his expertise and he agrees) he realized, as with FHTM, that they were NOT a VoIP company but an MLM that ran a pyramid/ponzi scheme.
TelexFREE lied to Isaacs just like they lied to everyone else. This caused him to run out the back door as soon as it was discovered.
On the other hand, unlike the work ISG did for them, Gerry Nehra helped TelexFREE create the legatees for the ponzi scheme and knew what type of business they were running. Nehra should be prosecuted just as much as Jim Merrill and Carlos Wanzeler will be.
Most consulting companies take their clients for face value until it is discovered they are full of shit.
If you would have actually investigated that you would have realized he was the main catalyst that got the FTC, all of the attorney generals and the media involved in exposing FHTM for the crook they were. Its not too hard to get that info. Everyone on the net knew it except the losers from Quatloos.
You asked everyone on the ‘net ???
Oh I’m not trying to lump Isaacs into the same category as Nehra, that’d just be unfair.
I was more curious about the retirement thing.
Oz, you do a great job of keeping folks informed about scams on this blog when you stay on topic. Digs at Isaacs shouldnt be tolerated. He semi retired at the age of 45. He has been 98% retired for the last decade or so.
Glad you are not lumping Mr. Isaacs into the same category as Nehra. If you want to know about Isaacs retirement, FHTM or TelexFREEE – why not contact him directly. His email address is firstname.lastname@example.org and I am certain he would love to fill you in. 🙂
Semi-retired sounds fair enough. We’ll leave it at.
Frankly, YOU brought up the premise. You are supposed to prove it. Instead, you brought broad declarations with no evidence. In fact, you are using the same tactics that FHTM and other scams did: “everybody knows that…”
However, I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with you or your allegations about Joe Isaacs’ role in downfall of FHTM. It is simply IRRELEVANT: FHTM’s dead.
Then send Isaacs a thank-you for eliminating one of the most prolific pyramids of the 21st century and move on!
There, fixed it for ya.
No need to thank me.
He was the ONLY ONE who caused their demise, not one of many. Your are extremely confused.
Ah, I see. Isaacs possess the power of self duplication and he can also change his form: everyone who was involved in bringing down FTHM was Isaacs. The attorney general, investigators, everyone in the FTC who worked on this, all Isaacs.
He’s likely also the judge and the court appointed receiver, making sure people receive justice even after he single handedly killed FTHM.
I don’t know who to despise more: the ones who were mislead into every ill of FHTM came from Joe Isaacs so he’s evil incarnate… or those who believed the same except Joe Isaacs is paragon of virtue.
Frankly, both are pathetic, IMHO, of course.
I’m pretty sure it was FHTM’s business model (compensation plan). Unless you’re going to claim Isaac’s wrote that.
If Isaacs and Yvonne Day hadnt worked feverishly for 2 years to get the investigators, the FTC, the press and the AG’s to listen they would still be in business. Their business plan sucked and their were illegal, it took Isaacs and Day to make it happen though.
Isaacs had nothing to do with their business plan. Oz, I am disappointed in your last comment. Business plans dont shut MLM’s down (or their would be none). Its aggressive honest people that bring the shortfalls of those illegal plans to the attention of the right regulators.
Why dont you all rejoice in the fact that FHTM is gone and they no longer have the ability to f**k the world out of hard earned money already, instead of worrying about how much Isaacs played in the role of their demise? Seriously, get a life!!
Are you kidding me?
Anyone would think there had never been regulatory action against a pyramid scheme prior to FHTM…
Jane Doe brought up the name in post #40. Common Sense responded to that post in post #63. People generally ignored Joe Isaacs as a topic / wasn’t interested at all until someone (guess who?) actively started to post comments about him.
That same pattern seems to repeat itself many other places on the internet, but I didn’t bother to check any details.
I think in the interests of readability we’ll leave the topic of Isaacs with his being credited as someone who may have provided information to regulators regarding FHTM. I think it’s rather asinine to claim anyone but the FTC shut them down.
It’s offtopic from here on out.
I was involved with FHTM for nearly 12 years. Turns out they were all liars and scam artists!
The likes of Todd Rowland, Ken Bailey, Chris Doyle and others were professional bonus buyers.
I witnessed it first hand when they were spouting that Orberson was going to appear on Oprah! (The lies were really getting out of hand). B
ut as a National Sales Manager, they would put up the money for all new recruits. And why wouldn’t they? They invested $99 to $199 and made nearly $350 per.
They are all with Ariix now and bonus buying their way to the top there, too. Rowland had the audacity to say in a recent Ariix training video that everyone from FHTM was cleared or exonerated?
They live in a fantasy world and these scams let them live there. They all should all be shut down, imho.
Never happened. Have you got a source for this video?
Oz. You are a fucking clown. And yes it was a major scam. Josh may was a top member and many I know went through him.
The finally got caught and you still try to back them in 2020? You are a fucking clown.
So, comprehension not your strong point then?
Suck my c$#% says:
Mein gott…If you got THAT out of his article & comments = you are WAY to stupid to play the money/ponzi games.