Bitcoin Economy Review: Bitcoin made simple?
Bitcoin Economy is currently in prelaunch with an announced launch set for February 3rd 2014.
The company’s website domain is registered anonymously (“bitcoin-economy.com”, registered 29th November 2013), however the Bitcoin Economy “Terms and Conditions” indicate that the company is registered in Seychelles (a known tax-haven):
This site (excluding third party linked sites) is controlled by the Company from its offices within the State of Seychelles.
Both you and the Company agree that the statutes and laws of Seychelles shall apply to any actions or claims arising out of or on relation to this Agreement or your use of this site.
The Bitcoin Economy affiliate agreement appears to contradict this, stating that
the formation, construction, interpretation, and enforceability of your contract with Bitcoin-Economy as set forth in this Affiliate Agreement and any incorporated documents shall be governed by and interpreted in all respects under the laws of the Netherlands without regard to conflict of law provisions.
Adding more confusion to the mix, the Bitcoin Economy affiliate agreement goes on to state that affiliates are entering
into contract with Direct Selling Global News, Ltd., doing business as “Bitcoin-Economy.”
I couldn’t find any specific information on Direct Selling Global News Ltd., but in the Bitcoin Economy FAQ the company discloses they use Hong Kong based banking channels:
Direct Selling Global News Ltd.
Account number: 848-535290-838
RM 2106 21/F Lemmi Ctr
50 Hoi Yuen RD
Kwun Tong KLN, Kowloon, Hong KongBank info:
HSBC Bank
Head Office, 1 Queen’s Road Central
Hong Kong
SWIFT: HSBCHKHHHKH
Named on the Bitcoin Economy website as CEO of the company is Martin Bylsma (right). On his Bitcoin Economy corporate bio Bylsma is credited with having worked at Vemma (Managing Director, Europe), Agel Enterprises (“GM” for Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Iceland), ACN (Director of Field Support, Europe) and Amway (General Manger, Europe).
On his LinkedIn profile, Bylsma lists himself as operating out of Amsterdam in Norway.
Bitcoin Economy don’t explain why they are using Hong Kong based banking channels, however they do state why they are registered in Seychelles in their FAQ:
Why is the company holding founded in the Seychelles?
As most other classic offshore companies, a Seychelles International Business Company (IBC) is a tax-free corporation designed for engagement into all forms of international business, with no reporting and minimum record-keeping requirements, and comprehensive confidentiality features.
A Seychelles IBC, by the definition of the law, is not subject to any tax or duty on income or profits. It just did not make sense to incorporate our Internet/ Bitcoin company in the USA, Europe or Asia.
Read on for a full review of the Bitcoin Economy MLM business opportunity.
The Bitcoin Economy Product Line
Bitcoin Economy offer a subscription based training course that they claim results in the participant becoming a “Bitcoin Certified User” or “Bitcoin Certified Expert”.
In this course we teach how to learn and earn with Bitcoins. You have your certificate and you have the “WOW” factor, you are an innovator!
According to the Bitcoin Economy, subscribers of the Bitcoin Certified User course will be able ‘explain in a smart way your friends and family what Bitcoins is all about‘. Subscribers of the Bitcoin Certified Expert course will ‘learn how to earn with Bitcoins‘.
The Bitcoin Certified User course retails for $25 a month and Bitcoin Certified Expert Course for $95 a month.
Note that Bitcoin Economy only accept Bitcoin for product subscriptions, meaning the above prices are floating variables.
The Bitcoin Economy Compensation Plan
The Bitcoin Economy compensation plan revolves around the sale of the company’s two subscription courses ($25 and $95 a month).
Commissions are paid out using a perpetual 1up style compensation plan. In Bitcoin Economy’s 1up based compensation plan, affiliates earn commissions on their first, third and fifth sale and pass up their second, fourth and sixth sale to the affiliate who recruited them. Thereafter, every fifth sale is also passed up to the affiliate who recruited them.
Each subscription plan is treated as a separate pass-up system, with Bitcoin Economy affiliates being required to buy into the two levels in order to get paid:
100% of the funds paid in subscription fees either kept by the affiliate who made the sale or passed up to the affiliate who recruited them.
In turn, an affiliate who recruits new affiliates also receives pass-up commission from their second, fourth and sixth (and every fifth thereafter) sales.
Joining Bitcoin Economy
Affiliate membership to Bitcoin Economy is $20 a month, or $199 annually.
Note that Bitcoin Economy state that affiliate membership fees (excluding the $199 annual fee during prelaunch) must be paid “in Bitcoin”, meaning the above prices are floating variables.
Additional affiliate costs include the purchase of both subscription courses ($25 and $95 a month), which without a purchase the Bitcoin Economy compensation plan states affiliates can not earn commissions on (see Bitcoin Economy compensation plan above).
Conclusion
You understand the volatile nature of Bitcoin as a currency. Bitcoin-Economy is not in the business of providing investment advice.
-Bitcoin Economy affiliate agreement
Here’s my problem with Bitcoin Economy from an MLM perspective: No matter how you cut it, the company is offering advice to subscribers on converting real money into Bitcoin, something, something, everybody makes money.
Something, something? Investment advice. Or more specifically, from Bitcoin Economy’s “products” page:
How to earn Bitcoins in a massive way, investments, Bitcoin exchanges, Bitcoin Forex and more!
Yet tucked away in the affiliate agreement, Bitcoin Economy warns subscribers
You understand the volatile nature of Bitcoin as a currency. Bitcoin-Economy is not in the business of providing investment advice.
You’re going to “teach” people how to convert real money into Bitcoin and then earn money via “investments, exchanges, Forex and more”…. and you’re going to do it without giving investment advice?
Cut the crap guys.
There’s no way around the simple fact that making money in Bitcoin involves the conversion of tangible currencies. You’re offering investment advice because that’s real money going into Bitcoin, which you’re then “teaching” people to convert into profit.
Not only that, but you’re also trading in your own virtual currency on top of Bitcoin:
When you sign up, we create an internal bitcoin wallet for you.
This “internal wallet” isn’t pegged to anything but Bitcoin Economy itself, with the company stating they convert funds in the wallet by taking ‘the average $USA price of 3 major exchanges‘.
There’s nothing wrong with providing Bitcoin investment advice on its own, but as an MLM product? And trading your own virtual currency with affiliates to boot?
On the Bitcoin Economy FAQ page, the company writes:
In our operations we look closely to the USA (MLM) law and we strive to be compliant with all international business laws. Our MLM lawer is from the USA.
Why would an “MLM lawyer from the USA” advise Bitcoin Economy to register itself offshore in Seychelles and use Hong Kong banking channels?
I can think of one three letter reason… combined with Bitcoin Economy’s own provided reasoning: “no reporting and minimum record-keeping requirement”.
On the compensation side of things Bitcoin Economy doesn’t fare any better. The company forces affiliates to buy in at two levels, pay a fee to participate and then earn 100% gift payments from those they recruit.
Despite talk of retail customers on the Bitcoin Economy website, the fact is the company itself doesn’t retail anything… except affiliate fees. Affiliates and customers pay affiliates 100% of the money they put into the scheme, designating the affiliate fee to nothing more than permission to participate in effective gifting.
Pay your $25 a month and receive $25 and/or $95 monthly payments from those you recruit. If they pay $25 they too can do the same, and they’ll also gift up certain payments to you too.
I’ll say it again, any claims that anything other than affiliate subscription fees are being bought and sold is negated by the fact Bitcoin Economy themselves do not charge for their training.
At best the company gives it away when those participating give money to those who introduced them to the scheme.
At the top of the scheme (and gifting payments chain)?
The company is founded by a group of 20 international bitcoin “Die Hard’s”, multi level marketing professionals, compensation plan and accounting experts, and top-level business people.
Those familiar with the MLM industry at large will note Bitcoin Economy’s compensation plan is similar to Empower Network (who the industry can thank for this current gifting resurgence). $20’ish affiliate fee with “educational” subscription-based courses fronting the transfer of money between affiliate participants.
Not at all surprising when you consider Tissa Godavitarne serves as Bitcoin Economy’s “Chief Sales Officer”:
Back in February 2013, BusinessForHome’s Ted Nuyten “welcomed” Godavitarne to his Empower Network downline on his website, “TrafficWithEmpower”:
And a week ago a Bitcoin Economy advertorial appeared on BusinessForHome, laced with an affiliate link (“topteam”):
Whether or not the affiliate links belong to Nuyten or not is unclear (they don’t belong to Godavitarne as per the Bitcoin Economy affiliate links on his own website), but if they do – from one MLM blogger to another I hope you know what you’re getting yourself into Ted.
These are some increasingly murky waters you’re wading through. Ditto anyone else who thinks paying money to receive money from other participants under the guise of an offshore MLM company providing Bitcoin investment advice, is a good idea.
Footnote: I’m well aware the combination of Bitcoin and MLM is new territory for the industry. That said, any comments attempting to superimpose the legitimacy of Bitcoin, Forex and/or currency exchange onto Bitcoin Economy, whilst simultaneously ignoring the company’s MLM business model, will be marked as spam.
And what exactly is there to learn about Bitcoin that you can’t find on Wikipedia or the official Bitcoin websites?
They may as well replace Bitcoin with “Thingamajig” or “Unobtanium” or “NextBigThing”, and the biz will be exactly the same. They picked Bitcoin because people has heard of Bitcoin, but not sure what it is.
Just like the Nigerian Letters… or Spanish prisoner scams… It relies on people having *heard* of some such things, but not know enough details about it to detect fraud.
This needs to die a quick death.
From what I understand thus far, Bitcoin Economy is not part of Bitcoin the e-currency company, but is a separate company/entity offering information about bitcoins with an mlm comp plan attached to it.
Much like someone starting a company offering information on how to use PayPal and attaching an mlm comp plan to it.
Would that be a close enough assessment? Or am I way off on this one?
Bitcoin Economy is its own operation. Although they might have affiliate deals with currency exchangers to push onto you when the time comes to convert $$$ to Bitcoin.
Your Paypal analogy sounds right to me. Offering currency trading and investment advice as an MLM product is like shooting a flare into your nearest regulatory office and waiting to get stomped on.
That’s what I was afraid of. They’re riding on the coat tails of Bitcoins’ popularity for the moment. Thanks, Oz.
Can you guys discuss Bitcoin the currency. I’ve been researching this and seems it’s nothing more then a currency that was formed out of thin air. Because people have paid money BitCoin now has a value, but it seems like a ponzi as if everyone dropped out the scheme would go down completely.
What I am not understanding is how so many big company names are starting to accept it as payment and are getting involved. Zynga (FarmVille creator) is talking about taking payments, Richard Branson seems to be accepting BitCoin.
Looking forward to hearing some responses, in the next 4 months this company will grow dramatically no matter what as its the next big thing in MLM coming.
You’re talking apples and oranges.
Bitcoin the cryptocurrency has nothing to do with MLM. People jump on it because it’s anti-establishment, NOT backed by any government, and virtually anonymous. But it’s very risky as its value relative to common currency is fluctuating heavily.
It has nothing to do with this company that purports to charge you $$$ for lessons you can get from simple Google searches.
“The next big thing in mlm”…
What person doesn’t say that about their opportunity?
Well, DSD claims to do that with eBay instead of Paypal… 😉
I’m poorly updated on that topic. I have mostly read comments from gold & silver investors, and I will normally do the opposite of what they recommend = I will not buy BitCoin as an investment (they are mostly attracted to bubbles).
I have read a few comments in a computer forum, and they had different types of arguments. But I mostly found very one sided viewpoints from promoters there.
From my personal viewpoint, I don’t do enough transactions on the internet, so I won’t have much use of BitCoins as a transaction method. The arguments people used about “10 minutes transaction time”, “no chargebacks”, “very low transaction fee” won’t have much effect for me.
I don’t have that TYPE of transactions either (but I don’t remember all the arguments people have used there). People compared it to Western Union for price (compared to immediate transaction, where Western Union charged 10%), and to PayPal for transaction time, chargebacks, money held hostage, user being banned, etc.
The people who recommended BitCoin seemed to have very much trouble using ordinary payment methods. VISA and MasterCard were also used as examples, e.g. when they banned transactions to WikiLeaks.
Most of the arguments used to promote BitCoin in that computer forum missed me completely, they were typically focused on “special needs and wants”. I’m really not that interested in sending money to “Jose in Venezuela” anonymously, even if it only takes 10 minutes transaction time and can be done from a mobile phone app.
Thank HEAVENS Paypal has it’s filters and steps to sniff out scam. It is sometimes the first real indication a person has that what they are dealing with is not kosher.
I don’t know anything about BitCoin either.
Actually, DSD shows people how to sell tangible items on eBay a certain way and to accept payments via Paypal when the transactions are fulfilled.
Bitcoin appears to be treading in “investment advice” waters which is likely to attract regulatory scrutiny.
I meant Bitcoin Economy.
AND has a MLM pay plan. Which is why it was discussed. 🙂 If they went strictly direct sales I had no problem. It is that “member recruiting member” that I had some reservations about.
Chris, this is exactly what I and many others asked. What is Bitcoin I don’t really understand it? That seems to come from 99% of people.
Heck, I know people online who don’t know how to copy and paste a document!. So I can see some mileage in Bitcoin-Economy and how it could help people understand with their training platform.
Yes, like lots of things online, you can find out things for free, however, rather than spending hours online surfing, some people like to get information quickly and in one place. I know I do!
As for the MLM compensation part, whether it will stand the test of time, not sure. Anyone that sells a product/service that has a fee, people promoting the product/service needs to be rewarded. Until the products are live no one knows the true value of Bitcoin – Economy.
Also, as for Bitcoin being formed out of thin air, isn’t that the same as paper money! Governments print from thin air, at least Bitcoin isn’t owned by anyone.
Time will tell. No one has the answer on this one, not even “OZ” 🙂
For the record, I completely understand Bitcoin and the technology behind it. I also understand how it is traded and exchanged.
That’s a separate discussion as far as I’m concerned. The issue here is Bitcoin investment advice as an MLM product. I’m not buying it (no pun intended).
The short of it is there is NO stability in Bitcoin because there is NO government backing it.
People know that US Dollar is good because the US government backs it. NOBODY backs Bitcoin (other then people who are willing to pay $$$ for it, and other people willing to accept it as valid currency).
Thus, to understand “Bitcoin investment”, you have to track the global market of bitcoin, status of individual exchanges down to the second (when Mt.Gox went offline Bitcoin prices plummeted, same when Mt. Gox money in the US was seized). And again when China banned it.
Thus, there is NO POINT in “Bitcoin investment”. You cannot reliably invest in it as the market is EXTREMELY volatile. This would be worse than investing in the “pink sheet” penny stocks… It’d be closer to investing in the pink sheet penny stocks on the other side of the world where you don’t even speak the language.
And that concludes my rant about Bitcoin and people trying to profit off that general ignorance.
As much as I see the potential and belief that the MLM industry has for certain products/services and people, I don’t prescribe to the belief that OMG MAKE EVERYTHING MLM…Bitcoin falls under the “No” category.
IMHO, direct/network marketing is only suitable for products that can a) be readily made “unique” through marketing, b) sounds vaguely familiar/scientific/impressive (except to skeptics who fact-check) and c) have huge profit margin, over 50% is virtually required.
“Bitcoin training” only fits B and C, but not A.
Forgive me K Chang. But Bitcoin has already been around since 2009 (5years). Even Sir Richard Branson And Lamborghini is taking Bitcoin payments.
Neither you or I have a crystal ball. But I would rather listen to Billionaires like Sir Richard Branson that have vision, rather than an opinion shot from the hip 🙂
And how exactly does that make Bitcoin a valuable investment? he can afford to lose a few bitcoins, even if they fall to worth zero. You can’t.
And if you’re talking about Lambourghini Long Beach, the dealership made the customer convert into Dollars before taking it. You’ve been mislead.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/6/5181864/lamborghini-dealership-starts-accepting-bitcoin
Correction… Virgin Galactic takes Bitcoins. And you know how much does one of their tickets cost? $250K USD (or equivalent in Bitcoins):
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/22/5133362/richard-branson-endorses-bitcoin-says-virgin-galactic-will-accept-the
Go try buy a Virgin Atlantic ticket with Bitcoins and see how it goes for you.
Branson take Bitcoins for VG because it’s free publicity for him. Maybe he believes it personally, but that doesn’t mean he accepts it at ALL of his businesses.
But “they” don’t tell you that, do they?
K.Chang, I’m a little confused here. Who is talking about investment? Bitcoin is a currency (that has value) more and more companies are using them.
You seem to be confusing the “currency” with “investment” on here anyway.
You assume I’m in the USA. And talking about Lamborghini Long Beach. Nope, I’m not from USA I’m from the UK.
Lamborghini is taking bitcoin payments here in the UK, yes it is good publicity for Sir Richard Branson but still takes them, Pubs in the UK are taking them for Beer. I can list many Companies that are taking Bitcoin.
Cut the “investment” part out, look at it as a “currency”.
Just seems funny how people are going off on “investment” instead of the possibilities Bitcoin can be used for.
Since May 23 2013. Pembury Tavern in Hackney, east London – as well as its sister pubs in Cambridge, Norwich and Peterborough.
And they started to accept BitCoin for marketing purposes (publicity), not because it was convenient to use in transactions.
It has some marketing value being among the first ones, or even being on the list of companies accepting BitCoins. Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic clearly seemed to use it for marketing purposes.
Other brick and mortar company owners will accept BitCoin because they see it as an investment, e.g. they want to get in early before the rest of the investors. I mentioned some of them in post #9:
That’s the reason for why I decided to check a computer related forum rather than an investment oriented forum. I was trying to get a more balanced viewpoint before posting (but that idea didn’t work very well, I mostly found the same type of arguments).
If too many people PRIMARILY see BitCoin as an investment rather than as a convenient transaction method, then it will become less useable as a payment method. The PRIMARY function of a currency should be commercial transactions in normal markets (the many rather than the few).
This quote reflects a rather typical set of motives, similar to some of the motives I found in a few Norwegian forums:
* He’s a BitCoin investor himself.
* It gives his business positive publicity.
* Competition motives.
You will rarely find a similar set of motives for any other currency. You will find similar sets of motives for accepting gold and silver coins.
Then we both are off topic as this is about BitcoinEconomy the company that allegedly offers “training on Bitcoin”, and one does not need training to use Bitcoin as currency.
Sorry Jane, but you’re not REFLECTING your own statements. You’re not really using BitCoin PRIMARILY as a currency yourself.
People won’t normally refer to where they hypothetically can use it as a currency if they actively are using it themselves for that purpose. You were posting “marketing statements” rather than your own use of BitCoin as a currency.
You were posting something you have read on the internet, something you have googled, something you have been told by other BitCoin users.
If you had been an active user of BitCoin, you would not have needed to post statements like that. You would have had your OWN experiences from using it as a convenient currency. Your PRIMARY focus would have been on your OWN experiences, rather than on Richard Branson and a few pubs in the UK.
Real users will not post “marketing statements”. Real users are the ones who PRIMARILY are using it as a currency themselves. You didn’t REFLECT that. You acted more like a “true believer”, or a “newly converted believer”.
REFLECT IT, RATHER THAN TELLING IMAGINARY STORIES
You can compare your posts to my post #9. I didn’t have any personal experiences with BitCoins, so I posted the experience I HAD = “I have read about BitCoin in a forum, but I’m poorly updated”. I even specified the TYPE of forum and the TYPE of users there, and my own viewpoints about it.
To update myself, I checked a different type of forum and the arguments posted there. The arguments mostly reflected “marketing statements” rather than real users. They reflected a very limited use of BitCoin as a currency, e.g. people had mostly “tested” the use of it to see how it worked.
My post #9 clearly REFLECTED my own experience, the limited and indirect experience I had. That’s what people NORMALLY will reflect if they’re discussing something based on personal experiences.
M_Norway. H’mmm, I am using Bitcoin, I have a number of Bitcoin Wallets and been involved since the beginning of 2012. I have bought and sold Bitcoin. I’ve also bought and sold items using Bitcoin.
This topic is about Bitcoin-Economy K.Chang. You speak to everyday people in the street and mention Bitcoin. See how many people ask what is, and how does it work.
Whether Bitcoin-Economy is good, bad or indifferent, people still want information, training etc. And people will pay for it.
How many e-books are sold online? You see subjects, topics where information is freely available, but people still pay to download information, either to get it in one place, to get it quickly, or they just don’t have time to search.
Nothing wrong with that!
If they were selling information (instead of running MLM) I doubt we would be having this conversation.
Whether we like it or not Bitcoin is a hot topic. It will either take off even bigger than it is now or die off. At this point in time, no one knows 🙂
Most often it will be your OWN ideas and beliefs that causes the confusion.
VALUE is about MANY different sets of ideas (theories about value). If you’re talking about value, you should normally be able to vaguely identify the TYPE.
The normal type of financial or commercial value should be about “exchange value” = what OTHER people can be willing to give you in exchange for the commodity or currency you have, in a normal and relatively stable market (a bubble will reflect PRICE rather than VALUE).
You also have some theories about “intrinsic value”, “production value”, “labour value”, “energy value”. The amount of energy/labour used to produce something should normally be reflected in PRICE and VALUE, but that rule doesn’t apply to currencies.
You also have some “user value” theories. I have mostly been able to find marketing statements from true believers, reflecting BELIEFS rather than REALITIES. Your own posts didn’t reflect personal use as a primary motive.
You also have some “liquidity” theories, e.g. how easy it will be to exchange it with goods, services or other currencies. If it can be DIRECTLY exchanged it will have a higher user value. A house can have high intrinsic value, but it’s not very liquid, the user value will be about something different than liquidity
You also have some “volatility” theories, how stable the currency is. Speculators will typically be attracted to high volatility when the prices are rising. Most arguments I have found on the internet have reflected investment motives and peoples’ IDEAS about value.
CONCLUSION
BitCoin is reflecting EXPECTATIONS (about rising value, about its future position in the market) rather than any real value.
* It has low intrinsic value, but that will also apply to other currencies.
* The intrinsic value is “constructed”, i.e. the mining of BitCoins on the internet doesn’t create any value in itself. It will generate COSTS rather than VALUE.
* It has mostly attracted “wrong types of people, with wrong types of motives”.
* It’s currently not very liquid outside a system. It can suddenly become highly illiquid and worthless.
Currently, the real value of BitCoin is low. People are simply paying for their own beliefs and ideas. Where they should have reflected “Richard Branson accepts BitCoins, and I bought my first space flight with it”, they’re only reflecting hypothetical use.
Ok M_Norway….
Well Overstock.com is another one taking Bitcoin. So it can be as volatile as it likes.
The fact is, Companies are taking payments in Bitcoin,
http://www.overstock.com/bitcoin?TID=PRODPG:Bitcoin
You can’t get away from FACTS lol
Bitcoin seems like tulip bulb to me. Just sayin.
Doesn’t really matter what anyone says here lol
Facts: Companies are taking Bitcoin
It has been around 5 years already, so who knows whether it will be still around in another 5 years. But if more and more Companies take it and more customers use it…
And every illegal enterprise attaching itself to Bitcoin brings it one step closer to being shut down by any one of a dozen governments.
Whether you believe in Bitcoin or not, anyone who thinks governments of all political persuasions are going to sit on their hands while Bitcoin related crime increases daily is deluding themselves.
Bitcoin Economy is only one of the obviously fraudulent Bitcoin attached companies which will bring it down
The rule definitely applies to currencies. It simply takes longer for that to reveal itself. The idea of fiat currency (currency backed by nothing) is nothing new, and thousands of them have gone to zero before.
In a study done of 775 currencies:
20% were destroyed by hyperinflation
21% were destroyed by acts of war
12% ended through acts of independence
24% ended through monetary reforms
23% are currently in circulation
In the case of bitcoin and other digital currencies: you are right…they have no intrinsic value. Therefore, it is worthless long-term to save bitcoins. However, at least they don’t have a trigger-happy central bank standing by to print more of them.
You didn’t REFLECT that. All your initial arguments were hypothetical arguments. You were simply REPEATING information found on the internet.
Your current arguments goes like this:
WHEN = since 2012
WHAT #1 = several BitCoin wallets
WHAT #2 = bought and sold BitCoins
WHAT #3 = also bought and sold items
WHY = it’s being reflected in WHAT #1 and #2
HOW OFTEN = poorly identified / vague
It seems like you PRIMARILY have been setting up accounts, and have used them to buy and sell BitCoins? Your regular use of BitCoins seems clearly to be about that.
“Also bought and sold items” doesn’t indicate any regular use. Maybe you should add some information about how often you have bought and sold items, and for which types of purposes (commercial / consumer purposes)?
It clearly does, or else you wouldn’t have posted anything yourself. You’re not REFLECTING your own statements.
If you want other people to believe in the usefulness of BitCoins, you should probably try to reflect it rather than repeating “marketing statements”.
The confusion you feel you have detected is simply a reflection of your OWN confusion. You haven’t properly analysed your own motives for the use of BitCoin, and it makes you confused when other people are trying to analyse it.
Phew M_Norway, I wouldn’t fancy going out for a drink with you. You would bore me to death lol
And isn’t about me is it! It is about Bitcoin-Economy.
Have a great day. M_Norway (psychologist).
Bored you to death? You would probably have been busy trying to deflect all those indirect questions about job and income, savings accounts, other assets – the questions where I’m indirectly trying to find out whether or not you can afford to support my expensive “hanging out with the guys” lifestyle. 🙂
“Guys! They’re only interested in ONE thing! Money!” will normally sound “deeply frustrated” rather than “bored to death”. Especially when it’s followed by “I spent the whole night desperately trying to avoid all the indirect questions about my own finances!”.
Thanks, Jane, and the same to you (great day). A psychologist would probably have analysed it differently, e.g. have looked for some causes in your early childhood and have recommended group therapy. 🙂
I’m analysing the sales arguments people are using, and I know most types.
Your arguments could have worked on a different type of audience, but here they only brought you into trouble.
Got any source for that? All I can find with “bitcoin lambourghini uk” got me that US dealer story (covered by Daily Mail and such UK news sources)
Bitcoin was accepted by “A” Newport Beach USA dealer as payment for a Tesla Model S, which has absolutely no connection or relevance to the fact the Bitcoin Economy company has disguised the investment advice activities and shady compensation plan behind Bitcoin.
No, just some crazy bitminers willing to dedicate million bucks on server room full of mining rigs, leading on ignorant noobs who’s asking why aren’t they getting any results with a Pentium D and some Rasperry Pis mining. ;D
Compare that to “full faith and credit of the US government” backing the US Dollar… 🙂
If you have Bitcoins, you can spend them. You don’t need faith in a currency to spend it. You simply need faith in currency to KEEP it (i.e. invest in it), and that, again, has nothing to do with BitCoinEconomy the company that really has very little to do with its name.
I found what I believe is the ORIGINAL source for that. It has some misinterpretations, but information doesn’t need to be absolutely 100% correct to have some value.
Links disabled (it’s off-topic for Bitcoin Economy):
dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id=00405 (source)
dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id=00107 (hyperinflation)
A misinterpretation was that the Norwegian currency in circulation was misdated to 1905, rather than to 1875 (Scandinavian Monetary Union).
*sigh* Let’s just get back to the Gold Standard #RonPaul2012 🙂
I am no expert but what “intrinsic value” does any form of fiat currency have? Its just paper or electronic blips at a central bank that can be exchanged for something else.
The premise of bitcoins is no different than any other currency and so long as people trust it as a storehouse of value then it will be accepted and used.
Contrary to your statement that the long term saving of bitcoins will not occur, there is a hoarding phenomenon occuring. You may say this is speculative but it may also be because bitcoins are expected to maintain value vs other currencies.
One does not need to look farther (but could) than the United States to comprehend that multi-trillion dollar deficits will in due course cause fiat money inflation.
I think people are interested in bitcoin, the same as they are in gold, as a hedge against monetary controls and central bank manipulation of the money supply.
Once established Bitcoin may prove to be a better storehouse of value than national fiat currencies. Add in the speculative aspects and freedom from state control and its no wonder people have an interest (some would say need) to understand this alterenative to “government backed” and government controlled currency.
This is just setup to take your money but what do you expect from bs artist Godavitarne.
Tulip bulbs for sale, cheap! Any takers?
As soo as the writer said you can “gift” up your $25 you should have known he was a network marketing hater.
There is no gifting. You get paid for referring people who pay the monthly subscription fee of $25.
As for the volatility of bitcoin? You purchase $25 worth of bitcoin that goes directly to the company. $25 is $25.
The wonderful world of the internet makes everyone feel like they are experts.
As to finding info and learning about bitcoins online? Yeah…go ahead and try and find the truth and opportunites with bitcoin. Thank God there is no misinformation out there.
Oh, and by the way? When you refer someone to YouTube to learn about bitcoins, how much is YouTube going to pay you for referring people to crap info?
Get real….
Sometimes, yes. That’s how X-pass-up commission system works.
But not all the time. You may want to re-read the comp plan.
Yes, even you. or the founders of BitcoinEconomy. Or even Oz here, or even me.
Who’s got more facts, and who’s merely got innuendos?
That entire fee goes to the person who did the recruiting (or their upline).
Nothing is bought or sold, with the only thing taking place being the transfer of $25. That’s cash gifting.
Otherwise you tell me, what’s the difference? Cash gifting schemes shuffle 100% of the money deposited between participants. Same deal here.
Really??? Where did you come up with that crock? Certainly not from the Bitcoin Economy site.
The commissions will come from the sale of info / training products, not for simply recruiting. Nowhere does the site say that there is no charge for training.
There will be 3 products for sale and the the comp plan is exactly the same as that of the Empower Network, a proven model.
As of now there are no products available for sale or review because the company is in pre launch. The first of the products will become available on Feb. 3rd.
So nobody is paying $25 or $95/ mo. for anything yet. The only option atm is to get a discount off the monthly affiliate fee by getting in early and paying annually.
If you are going to review something at least try and get your facts straight.
Affiliates paying affiliates means nothing is being sold by the company itself. Sales generate revenue, if affiliates pay affiliates 100% of what they deposit, it’s gifting.
If you’re going to comment, don’t waste my time with future promises of legitimacy and incorrect assertions.
Right here, right now Bitcoin Economy’s business model resembles that of a gifting scheme. Participants pay eachother with nothing sold by the company itself. Bundling a service or product with affiliate payments to eachother doesn’t make it any less of an effective cash gift.
Why are Bitcoin Affiliates participating? Because paying their gift to their recruiter qualifies them to receive the same from those they recruit (and their subsequent downline).
Oh and ditto EN. Bitcoin “training” is to Bitcoin Economy what WordPress and the new inferior blog platform is to EN. A front for affiliate gifting.
Wrong again. Participants do not pay each other anything atm. An affiliate fee is paid to the company in order to make commissions from the resale of products which will soon become available.
Obviously there is no sales revenue atm, as I said the company is in pre launch and the first product will be available for purchase and resale on Feb.3.
Wrong again. The recruiter receives nothing for recruiting. As with EN the recruiter will only receives commissions from the sale of the products according to the comp plan. Why is this so hard to understand?
My assertion is not incorrect, yours is. And if you are calling EN comp plan and products affiliate gifting as well then I guess the other commenter was correct in saying that you are a mlm hater. No point wasting more of my time on this discussion.
“At the moment”? Does it matter? Are Bitcoin Economy going to change their compensation plan?
Have they been misleading the general public and their affiliates up until this point?
Resale? You can’t resell what you don’t own. Affiliates don’t own the rights to the training. Anymore than EN’s affiliate’s “own” WordPress or their blogging platform.
Affiliates pay eachother and Bitcoin Economy throws in some training. They’re not selling it because they nothing off of it.
They do if the recruitee pays them. Which they will, making it a defacto recruitment driven gifting scheme.
Affiliates paying affiliates 100% of the money they put in != sale of any product.
Mine is based on the actual flow of money within the company, or more specifically the lack of flow (affiliates paying affiliates. Yours is based on the non-existent sale of a product.
By all means, if it makes you feel better. Here’s a tissue and a cookie. Aw hell I’ll even throw in a lollipop.
Meanwhile facts are still facts.
What’s the difference between a cash gifting scheme and Bitcoin Economy?
And don’t say “products”, every modern gifting scheme in which participants pay eachother attaches products to the gifts. It’s well travelled psuedo-compliance path that does little to mask the flow of money, which is what actually defines the scheme.
Laws are about realities, not about constructed law theories. You won’t find support for your theories in any law.
Some states use the definition “bona fide sale to end users”. As an affiliate, you CAN be an end user of a retailable product, but then the product also needs to be retailable.
“Bona fide sale” is about sale of the product WITHOUT the opportunity attached. It’s primarily about distribution of goods or services.
“Recruitment” is sale of the opportunity with some product attached. It’s primarily about distribution of money upwards in a system.
You don’t separate between your own beliefs and realities. EN got a similar conclusion here.
FWIW… Bitcoin exchange BitInstant’s CEO arrested by Feds for operating illegal money transfer… AND supplying users of Silk Road with bitcoins, thus… money laundering.
http://gizmodo.com/report-bitcoin-exchange-ceo-arrested-for-running-illeg-1509842040
From the Justice Department’s press release:
They also had some wise comments to that article …
“Conspiring to commit iPhone laundering” and “operating an illegal iPhone transmitter” is clearly something to worry about.
Thanks for this post. I was invited to this scam a few days ago and like K Chang say’s above this needs to die a quick death, so many innocent (or is that ignorant and greedy?) people will lose money.
I’ve already seen two ads on Facebook promoting this and the person who I initially signed up under, to check them out, sent me a FB message without me knowing him before.
The appeal in bitcoin, like others have said that some real quality companies are offering bitcoin payments now, is in the blockchain, which is a public record of all the transactions in the network.
Just like smtp, tcpip and http (the protocols that allow us to send emails, browse the web and send instant messages) bitcoin is a protocol to send payments without the need for banks, central banks and governments with their policies to interfere.
You become your own central bank. It allows for true innovation in a global economy that’s monopolised by the American Fed printing $65 billion (down from $75 billion, as announced by Mr Benanke) in his latest and final speech, which isn’t creating real jobs, or innovation enough for young people to find a place in.
We’re poised at the beginning of a true revolution people and bitcoin-economy.com and such likes will be outed for the scam artists that they are and regardless of the regulators that should be knocking on their doors, they’ll be outed by the community.
It’s not a question of “either, or”
As with all these things there are culpable, innocent, ignorant AND greedy involved.
The questions are, should society ignore the situation because SOME of the participants are ignorant or greedy and judged by some as being deserving of being ripped off and how to separate the “innocent” from the “ignorant and greedy”
Mainstream investors are noticing that some folks are doing “pump and dump” on altcoins (competitors to bitcoins).
Maybe that’s the sort of advice that BE may be teaching? 😉
http://valleywag.gawker.com/wolves-of-bitcoin-figured-out-a-nice-little-pump-and-1513537598/@sarah-hedgecock
Mt. Gox on the verge of collapse?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/business/apparent-theft-at-mt-gox-shakes-bitcoin-world.html?_r=0
Heck, I was just about to come and post this… 🙂
Entire website has disappeared and Twitter account post has been wiped.
It’s toast, man. Watch Bitcoin worth drop like a rock for next week.
@M_Norway
Inside job?
PatrickPretty is reporting another BitCoin bank, FlexCoin, is shutting down due to theft of 600,000 BitCoins.
http://patrickpretty.com/2014/03/06/spammers-push-bitcoin-themed-reload-scams/
The story itself is about reload scams.
I was reading today that the founder might have been unmasked.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/mystery-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-named-as-dorian-s-nakamoto/story-fnda1bsz-1226847589471
Still not 100% convinced, looks kinda hoaxy to me.
Just in, CEO of Bitcoin found dead. http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/03/05/bitcoin-firm-ceo-found-dead-in-suspected-suicide/
To be completely accurate, Autumn Ratke was the CEO of one of the many Bitcoin Exchangers, and not of Bitcoin itself.