Bidify scrap Ponzi points compensation plan
Following the aftermath of the collapse of Zeek Rewards, much attention has now been focused on the MLM penny auctions still standing.
With the money rolling into Zeek it didn’t take long for a slew of copy-cat competitors to spring up. Grab a penny auction script, engage some drop-ship suppliers (or just use Amazon) and off you went.
The MLM penny auctions in the article above are all currently in pre-launch and following recently development, it remains to see whether they will indeed proceed to launch. I have read a statement from Global One for example reassuring their members that they are going ahead with their point based compensation plan, regardless of what happened to Zeek.
Looking at the penny auction MLMs that have already launched, Bidify has undoubtedly received the most attention. I myself continue to receive email requests daily asking for a review on Bidify, despite the fact I already published one back in late July.
As a points based MLM penny auction that fundamentally works in the same manner as Zeek Rewards, I have no doubt that the same Ponzi scheme mechanics exist within Bidify.
Having kept track of the daily ROI the company was paying, I’d observed that after kicking off with an initial 5+% ROI pay out, this steadily decreased to regular payouts in the low 1%s, with the daily percentage rate even dropping to as low as 0.8% over the last few weeks.
Naturally the first few days of Bidify members investing in new bids shortly after launch skewered the daily ROI rate average but by all indications, even with 120 days to recover their bid purchase investment, the continuously dropping daily ROI rate wasn’t painting a pretty picture.
In any case, any planned analysis of the ROI Bidify was paying out are now dashed with the company informing members that they have scrapped the points compensation plan they were using.
Initially (as in within 24 hours) Bidify announced they were reducing the maximum investment US-based affiliates were able to invest down to 5000 EUR.
Quite obviously with this having no impact at all on the whole investment style points compensation plan, I saw this as nothing more than the continued cosmetic dressing of a Ponzi scheme compensation plan we’d witnessed over at Zeek Rewards for months.
Indeed this of course appeared to be nothing new to Bidify, with the company previously announcing the scrapping of their “Mandatory reinvestment account” for affiliates, which ultimately wound up being nothing more than a name-change to a “frequent sales credit account”.
In their announcement scrapping the points sytem, Bidify write
We understand that many of you want to know specifically
what factors distinguishes us from Zeek.Well, for starters, we’re not lying to you about the numbers. We publish our earnings daily. Those earnings drive the daily profit rewards.
Mechanically, despite the fudging of the Zeek Rewards daily ROI percentage by Paul Burks constituting fraud, of far more greater concern was the fact that this money was 98% affiliate money.
In their press release Bidify fail to address the question of “how much affiliate money are you paying out”. A moot question now that they’ve scrapped it, but one that if they provided the answer to, would have proven without a doubt they weren’t just running a similar Ponzi scheme to Zeek Rewards under a different name.
Second, our bids are actually being used. With Zeek, it has been alleged that only 0.25% of the bids purchased were every used.
It clearly shows that the bid purchases were merely token purchases designed to conceal a money transfer from late investors to early investors.
On Bidsson, the bids are actually being used.
Now this I have a problem with. I initially took Bidify at their word that bids had to be used but after publishing my review, it wasn’t long before Bidify affiliates contacted me to confirm that they were being awarded points in the daily ROI pool upon giving the bids away (the same as Zeek), as opposed to the customers they were giving the bids away actually using the bids in auctions.
I’m not 100% certain if this had since changed but after publishing a correction prompted by affiliates claiming they were not being given ROI points upon the use of bids but rather upon giving them away, nobody has since requested any further corrections. Given the attention Bidify has received, I can only assume that despite Bidify’s claims, bids being given away converting into ROI points was still the case right up to Bidify scrapping the daily ROI.
Looking forward, Bidify are claiming that because ‘there’s so much profit generated on the penny auction side of the business‘ and ‘after having countless meetings between management and our legal counsel‘, that they will be working towards ‘a new bonus plan based more on a traditional MLM‘.
Under this new compensation plan, Bidify will create a much smaller bonus pool (most likely made up of a percentage of the company’s profits), and distribute shares in this pool according to their members existing ROI points. These shares are capped at the point balances available at the time of the termination of the ROI points-based compensation plan, and there will be no way to increase an affiliate’s share in this pool.
Whilst I applaud what appears to be a shift towards a more traditional (why Bidify even bothered to entertain the notion that capping the initial investment amount affiliates could make changed anything I have no idea), I’m not entirely sure their suggestion that their penny auctions are so wildly popular are grounded in reality.
Zeek Rewards had 1.2-1.8 million members (depending on who you talk to) and their penny auctions were garbage revenue wise.
Bidify identify that
no matter how hard we try to force affiliates to move sample bids to customers, it’s going to be nearly impossible to prevent people from promoting the program as an investment,
however, and I’m repeating myself, the problem with a Ponzi investment scheme isn’t what your members are calling it, it’s the fact that your running a Ponzi scheme itself.
And regardless of how succesful they claim their Bidsson penny auctions are or whether they award points for customers using bids or not, at the end of the day if they’re paying out a daily ROI largely consisting of affiliate money, like Zeek Rewards they too are ultimately running a Ponzi scheme.
If we disregard Bidify’s provided reasoning of ‘we can’t stop people calling our scheme an investment’ as mere smoke and mirrors, that only leaves the conclusion that, like Zeek Rewards, their penny auctions weren’t/aren’t bringing in enough revenue compared to affiliate investment in bids to convert into investment points.
Of course Bidify can’t themselves admit this (not right now as the implications would cause an instant implosion given recent events surrounding Zeek Rewards), and I suspect that the deliberate non-addressal of claiming they paid out more retail revenue in their daily ROI as opposed to affiliate money confirms this.
Without further clarification from Bidify I of course might be wrong, but hiding behind “we can’t stop our members calling it an investment” seems a pretty weak reason to shut down a compensation plan. In fact it’s pretty much just more of the same psuedo-linguistic compliance Zeek Rewards was full of, that ultimately constituted two fifths of bugger all when the maths and figures behind the scheme were revealed by the SEC.
Pending the release of their new compensation plan (which will of course be reviewed in full), it’d be prematurely unfair for me to assert with any certainty that the Bidsson penny auctions will not be viable without an attached ROI affiliate funded Ponzi scheme model.
Infact, one of the major changes in eliminating the Ponzi points investment scheme will be that Bidsson no longer has to provide projected continuously increasing revenue to cover affiliate’s ever-increasing point balances.
Assuming Bidify will re-launch with a compensation plan that involves affiliates selling bids to customers and earning a commission on the sale of said bids, that would mean should Bidsson be a flop on its own, it would mean that it did so because affiliates weren’t earning commissions not because new members stopped investing, but because they were unable to sell bids to customers.
Affiliates buying bids en masse daily would of course no longer be viable because in scrapping the Ponzi side of the business, Bidify would no longer be offering an implied guarantee over 120 days that they’d pay affiliates more than the money used to purchase the bids to begin with.
Despite the claims of penny auctions being so wildly popular contrasting with the SEC stating Zeekler’s revenue was insignificant until they attached a Ponzi scheme to it (‘in 2010, Burks created Zeekler.com… the penny auctions were not particularly successful until Burks launched ZeekRewards in January 2011‘), it seems that one way or another we’re going to be given an answer to the question of profitability in a penny auction attached to a retail sales based MLM compensation plan.
From what I understand, Bidify’s daily ROI percentage payout plummeted well below the 0.8% I quoted earlier (that was the lowest official figure I’d seen prior to Zeek being shut down). One would think if Bidsson’s revenues were as wonderful as Bidify are claiming they are, that what happened to Zeek Rewards would have little to no bearing on the penny auction side of things, begging the question as to why the daily ROI percentage paid out suddenly plummeted.
The only logical answer I can come up with is because new members stop joining and investing. Bidify thus saw the writing on the wall and subsequently pulled the plug.
Bidify’s announcement on the scrapping of their points based compensation plan can be viewed over at the company website.
As we discussed with Zeek Rewards from the beginning, if a penny auction were that popular, or that “staying power” in that the cost of customer acquisition could be high knowing that the customer will stay and bring in more revenue long-term (i.e. look at poker room matching bonuses, and note PA’s have higher margins than poker rooms), then there is no need for an MLM (or Ponzi) compensation plan.
If real demand exists, then just use traditional affiliate marketing using Commission Junction or similar affiliate aggregator and pay out a straight percent commission on sales, where 20% is typical for the penny auction/gaming/gambling space.
The affiliate who refers a customer gets commissions for the life of that referred customer. Many real affiliates have done well with other penny auction traditional affiliate programs a few years back when PA’s were all the rage.
OZ, it seems as though this new form of ponzi is that of a company creating their own forms of currency, i.e. bids (backed by nothing but faith in the company). Seems like Lyoness has their own form of currency also.
Am I wrong in this line of thinking?
Offtopic and I don’t want to go into it too much here:
Lyoness are slightly different in that it’s a lump sum investment and you are paid a ROI after a fixed number of people invest after you.
Lyoness don’t have the same variable daily ROI payout pegged to how much new investors invest. They guarantee a fixed ROI based on a fixed number of investors making an investment after you.
Like I said with Zeek, if they really needed to attach an MLM business with a penny auction, then they should treat the bids as actual products like regular MLM’s. Make the affiliates buy the bids at, say 50 cents each, then have them sell them to auction customers at $1 each.
Then they can go out, find actual auction customers, and move product, making business for themselves and for the company.
Of course, there’s no real reason any affiliates are actually needed since it would be far easier for the penny auction company to advertise their site and sell bids on their own. Adding in an MLM to distribute bids among customers just makes it a bit more complicated for customers to buy bids.
I’m sure this is nothing more than covering their ass so they don’t get shut down like Zeek did.
Oz don’t you think that its entirely possible that the reason the roi percentage plummeted in the two days following zeek’s shutdown is because they actually started basing this percentage on the auctions profitability where as before they supplemented that percentage with other affiliates money making them seem more profitable than they actually were?
In other words bidify like zeek was fudging the numbers of the daily roi but were a little smarter about making them look more variable but when zeek crashed they stopped fudging the numbers and the true numbers proved to be alot lower then before.
The most important question is . . . “What does Troy Dooly think about it?” 🙂
It depends on how much they pay for his advice.
Yah im waiting for him to jump all over this one as well. LOL
Well, he put out a video about them back around March of this year: [1:12:51 PM] Paul Schlegel:
So now you know what he thinks of it.I dont get it….where was all these top-notch lawyers, attorneys, etc when the SEC rolled in?
He probably doesn’t think Bidify is a ponzi either… after all they hired a lawyer to make sure everything is in compliance.
oz, i went into zeek rewards with you a few weeks back and feel ashamed for defending it. i know this is off topic but i feel i should apologize and thank you for warning about this.
(Ozedit: Thanks for the support John. I want to confirm though that I was never in Zeek Rewards. I can only assume john is meaning “discussing” Zeek Rewards on here previously before the shutdown.)
This is my first post.
First off, thank you Oz & company for all your hard work and investigating to uncover the truth regarding Zeek. To “dream the impossible dream” was just too hard to resist for sooo many.
Second, the majority of the posts here are just “opinions” of others that have done no investigating at all but just want to get their 2 cents and their jabs in. (except for the true contributers that have similar blogs or do similar investigative reporting)
I’m happy that most here never joined Zeek. I never did join Zeek either despite having many in my social circle joining from over a year ago to last week. The insanity just kept getting worse! I’ve become the bad guy who just kept trying to ruin everybody’s party.
When first approached, Zeek was in its original form and I tryed to show people that it was just a clone of ASD. 6 months later I was still trying to be talked into it.
I listened to leadership calls with members and still said no way. I never believed in the ridiculous spreadsheets, the motivational leaders were as see thru as cons as I had ever seen and from always following your site and similar sites realizing that most of the upper earners were all old ASD players. Sorry, not for me.
I did however learn to believe that the penny auction industry was a profitable one and maybe if done legitimately it could have merit as an income opportunity.
Although I didn’t join during pre-launch, I followed Bidify for 3 months prior to their going live and became very impressed with their leadership and leaders. It was always about their Bidsson penny auction which didn’t dissapoint when they went live.
I continued to follow your findings here but decided to join their program the week they opened. A few Zeek heads from my circle joined me as they were starting to see what I had been arguing for a year.
Now although I understand all the red flags that you and your crew have pointed out I have found their management to be open, transparent, kind spirited and most important pro-active” rather than reactive.
The fact that they immediatly responded to the challenges Zeek has created and have put their full trust in their attoney, Kevin Thompson to create a “real” compensation plan speaks volumes to me on their integrity.
As of this post I do not know what the changes are but I believe in their management and legal team to do what’s right. Until everyone knows what that is then all we have are more “opinions” and “assumptions”.
In the end I just want to belong to something that is legal, real and has a true opportunity to build a business.
As always, I loved your fact filled post on this but it’s a shame it’s always follwed by the over-opionated rock throwers and know-it-alls who aren’t involved nor do the due diligence of you and your true team of investigators who also have their own blogs and sites.
Thank you for your forum, it is invaluable for so many of us.
Let me ask a question. Have “top notch lawyers” becoming a disguise that business is legal or what? What are they doing in these companies?
And if they have not been given all the infor. they need to fix a company, they should let everyone know or something. Seems like that is what happened with Kevin Grimes and Zeek. Top notch lawyer and then business is closed. Doesn’t add up.
e i agree with you this is just a new trend people should watch out for……..the penny auctions are not good.
@Mr Steve
This is a hard question to tackle as lawyers themselves don’t have control of the business. Ultimately it’s up to the business owners/management whether they implement any recommended changes.
In the following example,
that regardless of what the lawyers’ advice was or did, it’s easy to ask wtf are they doing when the company took their advice on board and largely ignored it.
Without the lawyers involved weighing in on Zeek Rewards, we have no idea if this is the case or not. Mind you, if criminal charges are filed and said lawyers rock up to court arguing that Zeek is not a Ponzi scheme, they deserve to be publicly exposed and evaluated on those statements.
It’s one thing to advise a client and have your recommendations largely ignored, it’s another to defend a Ponzi scheme in court.
(note I’m making a distinction between representing the accused and defending a Ponzi scheme, as I believe even Ponzi operators are entitled to fair representation in court).
this is confusing me 🙁Oz,
Lioness seems to be the same thing specially when you call it an investment you have to be careful. Plus it is on future purchases that you never cash in? What the heck.
I would love for you guys to do an indepth review as well. It sure seems like a ponzi to me….. Not based on true goods and services bought and sold…
@Tbone
This is the last comment I’ll allow here for discussion on Lyoness.
https://behindmlm.com/companies/lyoness-us-review-cashback-and-investment-returns
Please use the search bar people.
(maybe I need to add another one under the navigation menu on every page too?).
Pretending there are lawyers and accountants involved is stock-in-trade for fraudsters whose target market is largely made up of people who have never had dealings with lawyers or accountants, who generally fear them and base the fear on what they’ve seen on TV.
Straight out of the “Be Your Own criminal fraudster 101”
1) Grimes and Zeek is under attorney-client relations and cannot make any comments or else they’ll face censure from the Bar.
2) Kevin Thompson’s role with Bidify is to help Bidify obey all laws in the US, including incorporation. He had hinted that as soon as he heard about SEC and Zeek he told the Bidify head “change it now”. And looks like they did.
That’s positive news, at least. of course we’ll have to see what they come up with.
I’ll discuss Zeek related stuff over on Zeek topic. Feel free to take your question over there.
No offense to lawyers, but a lot of people seem to automatically assume that lawyers all have good intentions, or that somehow they always follow the “spirit” of the law.
The truth is that they are simply people with specific knowledge “of” the law, and that knowledge can be used in many different ways.
Yes, it can be used to make sure everything is done legally, but it can also be used to skirt the law, find loopholes, and exploit “gray areas”. I really don’t understand why so many people blindly accept the phrase “top notch lawyers” as some kind of certification of validity.
(Please remove old post and repost this one as I have corrected a few mistakes on the old one)
What Bidify did by changing the comp plan is a joke and totally unethical. They need to refund the money to affiliates. Affiliates put in money into business based on a certain promise and the firm has not been able to live upto it.
Bidify was saying all along they copied zeek model and made it better. SEC documents clearly show that zeek model was flawed as only 4% revenues came form Retail Bids(Penny Auctions).
In last 60 days since Bidify has got lot of money from affiliates and not much has been taken out . Now they are sitting on this big pile of cash and have changed the rules so we can’t withdraw the money . This is a joke.
All the leaders in bidify are trying to tell us future will be better. Why? Because they don’t have guts to tell the truth, they know inside they are all screwed but they invested so much time and money so they still want to live in illusion that it will be ok.
You want a proof. Listen to the call between Kevin, Frode and the top leaders in Bifidy . From their voice ( top leaders) one can feel they are not being authentic. Come on have the ethics to be truthful to your people. Have the courage to stand up and say what the firm did was wrong.
I am looking for one leader who has the guts to fight for their affiliates. Why is that we are so afraid of these firms. This is America. We have to fight for our rights.Frode already has been convicted of running ponzi scheme in US and I wont trust no one.
Zeek clearly proved that company, its management, the attorneys, the compensation experts and reporters like troy cant be trusted . These people don’t disclose upfront the conflict of interest when they are consulting or act as affiliates. They are being unethical.
There are lot of people who depended on Troy for his reporting but he has lost all credibility . His reporting is full of holes . If in Bidify things are transparent like the top leaders want to make us believe they need to show their affiliates the following.
1. Audited statement that shows , how much revenues came for Retail Bids in last 60 days. Was it as low as 5%.This will also prove what will be the success of the firm with its newer business model.
2. A statement that shows that Bonus Pool percentages were not made up but actually true.
3. Before creating this fear that affiliates need to be in compliance these firms need to be in compliance themselves and give hard proof that they are not running a ponzi scheme.
4. Give affiliates the refund for the principal amount they invested in Bidify.( principal amount) . SEC shows that this was an investment an they need to return peoples money when they invested in Bidify
5. Stop saying that they will become like Qubids. That is a fantasy that will never come true. Qubids is a professional run firm that has a professional management, technology and financial resources. Bidify didn’t even have enough money to start the firm, They did so by getting money from investors by selling so called Founders position . They did so without filing with SEC which is again illegal.
It’s a joke in the industry that so many firm have started using Founder positions to raise money for the own business. That is illegal an unethical and violation of SEC laws. You can raise money till you file with SEC. The SEC case SEC vs Rex clearly proves that fact. Please read the SEC vs Rex document and learn form it.
Now is the time not to live in fear but get together and be strong and raise our voice and get out money back and see that no one else looses a single Penny in these MLM Penny Action models.
The Penny Auction game is over. These companies need to know that if they don’t follow rules, then all affiliates can get untied do a class action lawsuit against these firms. Please educate yourself , spread the word and read the SEC documents. BidMaverick.
Next time read the policies and procedures before signing the affiliate agreement.
I have read it and my lawyers are also reading it as we speak. Why don’t you go and read SEC rules and regulations first. For starters ,start with SEC vs Rex Case.
Then I hope you find what you are looking for.
I was suprised to see that their website is still down for “maintenance.”
It remains to be seen how long it will take them to re-do their comp plan, but the longer this takes the more nervous their members/affiliates will become if new updates are not made.
I received an E-mail this morning asking me if the feds had moved against bidify too. They were worried because their site is still down. So Zeek has a lot of people spooked right now.
Can you imagine if they were down due to the feds shutting them down what kind of message that would send to all the Ponzi programs? I AM NOT SAYING OR IMPLYING THE FEDS MOVED AGAINST BIDIFY.
Comp plan won’t do anything as long as new money coming from new affiliates is being used to pay ROI for the existing ones.
Furthermore, as long as there is ROI for the initial and existing money or the principal, it will remain an investment no matter who the lawyer is, what the stupidity of compliance is, and what the linguistic mumbo jumbo is.
If Bidsson is so profitable and lucrative, why have Bidify to give away the money earned from Bidsson? Why not just shut the Bidify aspect of the business down or not pay that ROI at all.
Or why not provide some other incentives for those affiliates bringing in the new customers, not the Bidify affiliates, who would then be bidding on Bidsson and create profit?
I can imagine Jorgenson and Thompson burning up the phone lines coming up with a comp plan that they think will NOT resemble Zeek but still look attractive enough to the affiliate.
To me, the comp plan is simple: let the affiliates sell bids, offer a straight up commission: you get this much commission per bidpack you sell.
Provide a mechanism to give away bids, but DO NOT COMPENSATE affiliates for it. That’s idiotic. if affiliates want to give away some bids, it should be affiliate’s expense.
In fact, provide several different incentive packages. BOGOF (buy one get one free), volume discounts, etc. Different amount of commission.
Then offer group volume and goals and whatnot. THEN you’d have a traditional MLM.
Then you’ll also have a penny auction that offers poor value relative to the top penny auctions, which means no one will use it, which means there are no profits to distribute.
If you do all that, then nobody would join. Particularly on the heels of Zeek collapse.
That’s what I said about Zeek not long before it was shut down. Of course few people would join because then selling bids becomes work and isn’t the easy money passive investment scheme that people want to join.
Also, having affiliates sell bids is totally unnecessary because you could just as easily sell bids directly on the website. There’s really no reason to have any kind of MLM attached to a penny auction site unless it’s a ponzi like Zeek.
Technically, there is no reason to attach an MLM comp plan to anything.
It’s just another avenue to drive traffic like standard affiliate programs.
Given the profit margins that a popular, well run penny auction can have, I don’t see a problem with attaching a legitimate MLM comp plan to one.
At that point, it would just suffer from the regular problems that so many MLMs have trying to get more people focused on generating sales instead of just downline.
Bidify Zeek you can call it what ever name you want. The only way a penny auction to work in a mlm comp plan is to change the bids over to PV (product volume ).
Here is what the SEC AG OFFICE WILL LOOK AT IS A BID A REAL PRODUCT. Thats the BIG ??????
If the sec or ag office can say a bid can be a product or service then the penny auction mlm comp plan can work and folks can sell bids and make money by doing so.
AGAIN BIG ??? CAN A BID BE A PRODUCT OR SERVICE
A bid could be considered a product if you actually intended to use it in the penny auction. For example, if you go to a legitimate penny auction site, you have to buy bids in order to play. So in that case bids could be considered a product.
In Zeek’s case, the bids were basically just snake oil, something to “sell” affiliates in exchange for points. The affiliates might as well have just bought VIP points instead of so-called auction bids, because nobody ever really cared about the bids.
They were just something to give the whole scheme an air of legitimacy. Affiliates just dumped the worthless bids into fake customer accounts, and maybe played in the auctions once in a while in order to try to win something.
Nobody really cared about the auctions, they just wanted to see their points balances grow so they could tell people they were “making money.” If Zeek had simply had affiliates buy points, the system would have run exactly the same, except they wouldn’t have had to buy fake customers.
That, and the SEC probably would have stepped in sooner.
@Frode Jørgensen
You won’t be able to solve this situation. Bidify was 100% dependant on Zeek, the fact that enough people could believe in Zeek’s model.
If you try to fix it with a lower payout, nobody will join. And seriously, I don’t believe many will join anyway after Zeek’s collapse.
And I can’t imagine you will be able to fix it with customers, either. In Zeek, I was able to identify 2 customers in 8 months, asking 50-60 affiliates about it between January and August 2012.
You can close Bidify down and run away with the money, paying only the loyal ones, the original founders. But then you will probably get and addition to your nickname, e.g. “Runnin Fraudy”.
You can try a refund solution, paying people money back from what you have left. A solution like that won’t be popular, but people will probably accept it (“shit happens”). You will probably have to do clawbacks on some of the payouts or something.
All I know is that you will need a different strategy now than what you initially had. Bidify won’t be the money making machine you imagined it to be. You’ll need to switch to an emergency modus here (and I don’t mean panicking).
Your best options seems to be RUN or PAY. Both will require to shut Bidify down, unless you’re actually makes some money on Bidsson from REAL customers. “Some money” will of course mean “more than enough to cover expenses, and generate a profit”.
Your second best option is to try to drive some real traffic to Bidsson. You can’t expect your affiliates to do it for you, since they are only trained to recruit people and put money into a scheme.
Your worst option is if you don’t know what to do, and run out of money or have your business being shut down by authorities, something similar to what happened in Plexpay.
As of August 22 9:48 pm MST, Bidify is back online, with changes.
I agree with M Norway. If Bidify and Biddson management has any ethics and Frode wants to prove he is not a ponzi schemer and he actually learnt from his previous mistakes and his jail sentence for running a ponzi, he should refund affiliates the money they put into this business. It is the most sensible thing to do . It requires courage to do so. I don’t think the management has that courage because businesses are run to profit shareholders and not distributors. They don’t really care what happens to the distributors.
There are lot of pissed distributors out there who wont mind doing a class action lawsuit. You cant change the model 360 degree and ask distributors to follow suit. You need to give them an option to quit or to stay. It seems you are like those bunch of crooks who saw that the money safe was going to get empty and before it could, you changed the lock code so everyone’s money gets trapped and they cant take it out. Smart move. These distributors ain’t willing to speak because they may be afraid of your compliance whip. But believe me, I and my team don’t mind loosing all our money in Bidify but we will see to it that justice is served and all of us who put in money get their initial amount back. If you believe in your new business model then you should have no problems giving refunds as let others join the business based on the merits of the business.
I challenge the Bidify management especially Larus Palmi Magnusson and Frode Jorgensen ( and not leaders) to come to this forum and defend themselves and answer these questions.
I see a pattern that all these penny auction ponzi schemers keep on coming with new innovative ponzi schemes that can legally pass the test. That is what the attorneys are paid for. Its high time that such culprits be pursued and punished so no another ponzi schemer can even dream about another one.
We are going legally all the way to get our justice even if means contacting the house of representatives, better business bureau, the attorney General office, Department of justice, SEC, media outlets, local senators, online media news, MLM attorneys , etc
Business lesson 101. To create a long term sustainable business, you need to answer the question, what value are you creating for your customer, who plays the Penny Auction?. I don’t think you are creating much value . SEC documents for zeek rewards clearly show that even though 1 million affiliates were posting ads and their Alexa rating was 170 , they had so few customers that only 3% of revenues came from Retail bids .Tell us Frode that in last 60 days, how much of revenue was generated by Retail bids being bought by customers not including the affiliates who were forced 20% of retail bids down their throat.
Now is the time for all distributors to be vocal. Please express yourself before its too late.
BidMaverick
I’ll have a review out tommorow on the new comp plan. Not enough time today.
I had a quick look. Looks like they did go “normal” MLM, none of the passive stuff.
Primary commission is PV and GV only.
PV is your own bid purchase, or bid purchase by customers you referred.
GV is bid purchases by your downline, or by your customers and your downline’s customers.
There’s a bonus where it pays down multiple levels, but you need to have enough PV and/or GV to qualify for share multiple levels down, else you share shallow levels.
There is still a 10% retail bonus, and frequent sales bonus.
Not bad, I’d say, from legal compliance viewpoint. But who’s gonna join this now? 🙂
@BidMaverick
I tried to find ACCEPTABLE options, and from HIS viewpoint. So I included RUN as an acceptable option.
Bidify/Bidsson hasn’t been the money making machine it was intended to be, for anyone included the founders. It means everyone will have to face losses in one way or another, either directly or indirectly through their downlines.
Trying to continue will probably increase the losses. People know very well by now that affiliate driven penny auctions don’t generate much profit. So he should at least try to decrease potential losses.
So the real question here is “How do we distribute the losses among the members?”. And “How do we prevent damages?”.
I’ll guess this situation will show us how qualified Kevin Thompson is in the next few days, how valuable he is for his clients. He hasn’t exactly impressed me when it comes to damage control.
He seems to be much more useful as a marketing tool than as a troubleshooter. “Specially designed to increase credibility, when your business really needs it during a startup”.
I would probably have freezed payouts immediately, to make it possible to get an overview. But I would also have communicated WHY that is necessary. And I would probably have tried, within some reasonable limits, to get all the skeletons out of the closet at the same time.
It means I had only told people what’s important for THEM to know, and not ALL the other details. There’s a difference between being open and incriminating yourself. “We are in deep shit” can cover for many of the details.
@ Chang, I agree, Who is gonna join?
To quote, MLM attorney Jeff Babener, a program fueled by reps, who pay $10,000 for so called sample or giveaway bids, and recruit other reps to do the same, from which the commission pool is paid, is really not the marketing of a service… Rather it is payment into a pyramid scheme.
Ponzi and Pyramid schemes are, by case law recognition, viewed as unregistered passive investment securities offerings that carry deserved civil and criminal penalties for active promoters, whether they are company organizers or merely conflicted cheerleader media publishers with financial interests.
Such schemes really have nothing to do with Network Marketing, MlM or Direct Selling. Hiding behind terms of legitimacy is a great disservice to a global direct selling industry.
Bidify raised 1000 euros for founder positions and then later collected anywhere from 100 to 25,000 euros from each new distributors at time of signing up. This was all clearly disguised as passive investment securities offerings and that is a crime and those monies need to be returned to the affiliates.
After the SEC ruling in case of zeek rewards, Bidify got all worried and changed the policies. But what they did in last 60 days was not legal. They were not complying with the law. Either they should return the monies or face criminal and civil penalties.
Same seems to be the case with ” Bids that Give” and Ultimate Power Profits , two upcoming MLM penny auction model where the firms raised money by selling founder positions without filing with SEC. All these founder positions are more like investment securities offering that cant be offered till the company has filed with SEC .
And why couldn’t those attorneys and whatnot say this many MONTHS ago, hmmm?
For them to say it now is basically “lock the barn doors after the cattle escaped: too little, too late.”
Bidify HQ are based offshores so can the SEC shut them down? I mean they are off shore, is it legal to shut them down?
Seems like Bidify plan to pay out every Monday with no expiration point and no need for customer to qualify for rewards. Only old members tho
No feds, ag or secret service can shut down company that is over seas. They can shut down a company with in us territory. Freezing their assets like they did to Zeek and since president Obama signed executive order they can freeze your personal bank accounts too.
I’m not saying that Zeek was legal because it was illegal but it happened in past when sec shut down a company froze all assets people lost their money and after a year sec said oooppppssss we made a mistake.
That’s why some companies don’t want to open up a business in us because of all the regulations.
When, and to whom did this happen ??
Why doesn’t Bidify just change the compensation plan for US individuals to protect them and still allow the old one for those international.
For Zeek so who is going to get all that millions that the SEC is froze? SEC of course not the members.
@polyman
Because Ponzi schemes are unsustainable. Had the SEC not stepped in, ZR was on the verge of collapse anyway.
That would make them popular in the U.S. — “You will have to recruit 10 customers each per month, while people outside the U.S. can share half of the profit”. 🙂
Even if ZR was on the verge of collasping they would most likely have come up with something that would be mandatory to take in extra money.
There were many things ZR could have done to substain longer if the SEC have not stepped in.
How would the SEC figure out whom everyone that particpated in Zeek and withdrew? There were thousands people cashing out weekly. Would they really determine that in time and every single affilate that cashed out???? Thats a bit insane
When did Obama signed the order?
Uh, can you do your Zeek thing over in a Zeek topic please? Thanks. — Not Oz.
@hi bye
No.
No matter what you force people to invest, sooner or later a Ponzi collapses due to sheer mathematics. End of story.
Because they have access to Zeek’s records.
Same reason they can publish figures on Zeek’s financials (and also why the ‘waaah we’re gunna sue the SEC’ court cases are amusing).