How similar is Brent Payne’s Avant to Liberty League?
Yesterday saw the pre-launch of Brent Payne’s new company Avant. At this pre-launch stage the products have been announced along with two compensation plan videos. One detailing the regular compensation plan and one the temporary pre-launch bonus compensation plan.
Upon initial inspection it’s plain to see that Payne hasn’t lost his roots. Anyone who’s remotely familiar with Brent Payne’s old company, Liberty League International, will instantly gain a sense of familiarity. This familiarity extends both into the Avant products as well as the compensation plan offered.
The big question this raises is will Avant have the same regulatory problems Liberty League International had? Let’s have a look at the similarities between the two companies.
The Avant product line
The original Liberty League International offered 3 main products. A personal development course ‘Beyond Freedom‘, a 3 day ‘Liberty’ conference and a 5 day ‘Summit’ conference.
Avant looks set to replicate this product line although they’ve ditched the 5 day conference for a 4 day one.
Elevate
Avant’s first product offering is ‘Elevate’ and is apparently ‘backed by the latest discoveries made by scientists and doctors‘. Although Avant doesn’t reveal what these discoveries are or who the scientists or doctors who came up with them are either.
Elevate is slightly shorter then Beyond Freedom coming in at 72 days to Beyond Freedom’s 90. The premise however is the same. Elevate is a do-at-home personal development course that comes on a DVD with a journal and notebook.
One key difference this time around is that Avant backs Elevate with a 72 day money back guarantee. Presumably if you’re not happy with the product for the entire duration of the course you’re free to return it. It’s unknown at this stage however whether the associate who sold it to you wears the refund cost as per Liberty League International, or Avant itself.
Transform
Transform is the equivalent of Liberty League’s 3 day Liberty conference. One major difference between Avant and the later Liberty League conferences is that accommodation is included in the ticket price. I believe Liberty League initially offered something like this but the conference cost was later changed to cover only attendance at the conference itself.
Speaker wise you’re looking at ‘an opportunity to meet other community members and a very special guest appearance‘, indicating there’s only one outside speaker at the event.
Transcend (discontinued January 2011)
Transcend is Avant’s premium offering and is the equivalent of Liberty League’s Summit conference, sans one day.
Transcend is billed as the be all and end all of personal development,
This incredible live event combines inspiring presentations with ground-breaking participation in scientific studies, physical challenges and break-out study groups that will prove you have really reached the top of the mountain.
Having reached the top of the mountain I don’t know why you’d then need to come back for more but presumably the next Avant conference will have a higher metaphorical mountain for you to climb. And the next one higher, and higher again and so on and so forth.
The Avant Compensation Plan
The Avant compensation plan is incredibly similar to Liberty League International’s original compensation plan. Although Avant have reduced the qualification requirements and added a ‘residual override’ pool, the basic feel and requirement to either purchase products yourself or pass up a sale to qualify remains.
The pricing points for Avan’ts products are as follows;
The Elevate 72 day course retails for $1595, $595 goes to Avant and you pocket $1000.
The 3 day Transform conference retails for $9495, $4495 goes to Avant and you pocket $5000.
The 5 day Transcend (discontinued January 2011) conference retails for $16495, $6495 goes to Avant and you pocket $10,000.
The retail prices are similar to Liberty League’s product line prices of $1495, $7995 and $16495 for Beyond Freedom and the Liberty and Summit conferences respectively.
Note: In January 2011 Avant scrapped the Trascend conference and introduced a new one day conferene ‘Empower’. Additionally they also slashed the prices of Elevate and Transform.
I’ve kept the original products and prices here as a record but you can read about the new pricing structure in my article ‘Avant’s new prices: Reflecting the true product value?‘ /end note
The commissions structure at Avant revolves around qualification. In order to start earning commission on the sales of products you need to be qualified. The qualification process involves either purchasing the Avant product yourself, or making a retail sale of it.
Like Liberty League however this brings in the dilemma of marketing. Would you spend thousands of dollars on a product that the personal selling to you hadn’t personally used?
This is likely to lead in an almost guaranteed purchase by a new associate, not only to qualify but to say that they’ve used the product. This is the reality of what is most likely to happen however technically due to being able to qualify via an initial retail sale, Avant can claim that no product purchase is required to qualify for commissions.
The main difference between Liberty League International’s old compensaton plan and Avant’s is the introduction of a residual override. This is a money pool which is topped up each time a product is sold.
As a qualified Avant Advisor you’re able to make a residual override commission for each sale made by other Avant Advisor’s you’ve enrolled. This payout runs four levels deep from Avant Advisors you’ve directly enrolled underneath you.
The residual override payouts for each sale are $50 for Elevate, $250 for Transform and $500 for Transcend.
One strange aspect of Avant’s compensation plan is that they quote ‘historical data’. This historical data is referenced in estimating that 40% of people who buy the Elevate course will go on to purchase Transform, and then that 75% of people who purchase Transform will go on to buy tickets to Transcend.
Given Avant is in pre-launch I have no idea where they’re pulling this ‘historical’ data from. Presumably it’s from old Liberty League International but this isn’t mentioned or disclosed anywhere. This in my opinion is misleading.
My Thoughts
When it comes to personal development and MLM, the main problem is the lack of a recurring consumable product. This was evident in Liberty League International (now Polaris Global) and seems like it’s going to be an issue in Avant too.
If we look at Avants product line, Elevate is a once off purchase and the conferences are a one use item that don’t have a frequent recurring possibility. Like Liberty League International I very much doubt there’s going to be a sizable retail customer base for the big ticket items.
The hard fact is that without an interest in the business opportunity, why would you pay thousands to attend a personal development conference? Traditionally Liberty League’s conferences were all about ‘exploding your business’ and this was seen as personal development in itself. From what I gather there was very little in the conferences for someone not interested in joining the company.
From a regulatory standpoint it’ll also be interesting to see if Avant can avoid the problems Liberty League International ran into towards the end of it’s business life. In my opinion the need to constantly recruit new members is still there and this is what got Liberty League into trouble in the first place.
You can’t sustain a stable income without continuously having to recruit new members who are interested enough in the business opportunity to pay the thousands needed for all three of Avant’s products. These new associates in turn will then need to set out and recruit new members of their own and the cycle simply repeats itself.
Like with Liberty League, in reality the retail market is simply non-existent.
From what I can see, despite being billed as a new company, Brent Payne’s Avant appears to be more a reloading of the original Liberty League International before Payne left the company.
I might have missed it but as far as I can see a launch date for Avant hasn’t been set yet. With key elements that got Liberty League into trouble with the authorities still prevalent, it’ll definitely be interesting to see how Avant goes in the MLM marketplace.
When will Elevate ship? When is the first Transform conference?
At this stage as a prospective associate I think it’s kinda more important to know when Avant will actually launch!
I’ve just had a look at the Avant compensation video, and no matter how you analyse it, it’s still a pyramid.
1,4,16,64,256,1024 are the magic numbers for you to be a successful “entrepreneur”. Kaz Spence, the Australian founder, who is based on the Gold Coast will have her work cut out for her and daughter Mel as she tries to find 1024 people to fall for the scam and rescue her from the debt collectors.
I notice Brent has started to cover up all the tatts. Is he afraid people will think less of him if he puts them on display.
oh man.. i’m so confused… i cant keep up.. the ‘ol liberty leaguers are stirring up a whole lot of MLM/network marketing crock in their pots lately…
any chance of a where are they now on behindmlm Oz?
an updated version from Oz version?
brett payne- Avant
+ kaz spence
lavenias- Giveopp ? is this the same as planetopp?
+ lashin’s ?
+Delwyn McKenzie?
+Andy & Amy Grant?
http://www.free-press-release.com
http://www.viddler.com/explore/sjlavenia/videos/1/
Kieron atkinson, mike cameron- Yournight??
http://www.yournight.com/home.php
Kevin khenct- ?? no idea what this is… http://richdadrichmom.com/
Gene?
Tony? http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150168995335531&ref=mf
Roger & Suzanne Curwan- trump network
Lisa Molina-? still in polaris ? have her and Bob split? she appears very solo these days on her website…
mantels?
lynn & bettina?
Same idea, different face. Someone to purchase these products without intention of setting up their own Avant business would have to be an idiot. Why would one pay $9495 or $16495 to attend a 3 or 4 day conference with one speaker, a few dinners thrown in, the cost of hotel, and nothing else?
My experience of having attended the LLI conferences was that the speakers only had one 1/2 day, maybe two, to get their message out. The events were not about the speakers and what they had to share, they were about mingling with the leaders to learn how they had made their money, so said the leaders. Though, talking with most of the leaders, what they shared is that this business is all about what you believe, not the marketing.
So, why on earth would an outsider want to attend these events? Very misleading to potential recruits not familiar with this kind of business.
Not much in the way of social media support with their pre-launch:
1. a few posts on a free wordpress blog last month:
http://weareavant.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/what-is-personal-development/
Does Brent and Rachael both know that for minimal costs, they can have it not look like a free blog?
2. Twitter posts, 3, and 4 followers, following no one:
http://twitter.com/weareavant
And, on the first page of a google search of ‘weareavant’, this site!
Kieron Atkinson is with GiveOpp.
The Knechts are with Wealth Masters. Would like to see an article on the Wealth Masters International conspiracy group, Oz.
Tony Rush is with Numis. Gene Braxton, too.
The Molinas, Lynn and Bettina, and the Mantels are still with Polaris Global.
I know a lot of former LLI’ers that went to Lifepath Unlimited, but most quit and went to Trump or other MLMs. Said the energy at Lifepath was similar to Polaris – ugly, controlling and snide.
I don’t think GiveOpp is the same as PlanetOpp. From what I understand GiveOpp sells a travel deal, with some of the money going to charity.
Right now they’re just focusing on the charity aspect of it, and that’s a red flag if you ask me. They’re conning people into joining by letting them think they’re doing so much for the world. Most MLMs and other types of corporates donate to charity – its an easy way to give back and get tax breaks at the same time.
It might seem weird to Don Glanville and John & Shannon Lavenia, but I give to charity without being part of an MLM.
Oh, but I don’t take advantage of it and try to earn a profit off of the goodness of others.
@over.the.lies
Probably not worth doing it until GiveOpp and Avant launch. With the founder(s) of GiveOpp and Avant once so closely tied to Polaris Global I wouldn’t be surprised if we hadn’t seen the end of some shuffling of familiar names.
@Lynn
Maybe someone from Avant heard you, they started http://avantgardeblog.com/ a few hours ago. The blog still has the default WordPress about page.
Social media presence is going to be ridiculously hard for Avant. There’s already a whole bunch of established businesses using the Avant company name on the search engines.
@Oz
That is interesting that they are using avantgarde as their blog name…yes, it will be lost in the sea of that combination of words already in use. Their use of weareavant in their website, and then a different blog name seems a bit scattered. Maybe they are doing that intentionally?
Stay tuned I guess!
Take it easy guys, they’re in “Pre-Beta” . I think that means they’re almost ready to test the business to see if anyone will sign up. So far, 43 “likes” on Facebook and 8 followers on Facebook. 4 YouTube subscribers.
I don’t know about pre-beta. All the Avant promotional videos and material I’ve seen are labelled pre-launch.
I know a pre-beta stage can still be technically classified as pre-launch but traditionally speaking pre-launch is what happens right before a company launches.
Pre-beta is something like what GiveOpp are in. They are keeping a tight lid on everything so far. I’d say Avant have well and truly pre-launched by going live.
Crikey what a mess , surely the market is saturated with all this garabge , why on Gods name would someone pay that much for a seminar and holiday , its a pity these guys who push this tripe , aren’t grilled in front of a tv camera about what they’re up to
Douglas- they are all so used to lying- they’d prob be willing to give it a go- wouldn’t it be good to see them squirm tho! Esp since they are used to running & hiding when the pressure gets turned up! PLus- they are used to having a group of adoring sponges just suck up everything they say- so it would be great to have a real professional journo do the quizzing!!
I’m seriously suprised that these biz’s keep churning out and that ppl are still buying- gosh they must be finding some real suckers who are so desperate, not only is the market generally saturated- they are still pricing themselves out of the market with crappy products.
I was talking to a former LLI rep a few days ago who was supposedly behind the scenes during the transition from LLI to PMG.
What she told me was that, the main reason for the pay plan change is because, in Australia, the ACCC says that if someone signs up to be a distributor, then they must be allowed to purchase products at the wholesale price. After all whoever heard of a “distributor” who pays retail?
So, LLI dodged the bullet by changing their pay plan to something where distributors get paid on wholesale volume.
The reason I bring it up is because this applies to Avant, too.
On the surface this might not seem like a critical issue but it si. Because the whole concept of the “pass up” pay plan means that most of the money being earned comes from RETAIL profits to DISTRIBUTORS.
That’s a no-no. And if Avant had a corporate attorney who understood MLM they should have known that.
I don’t know if Avant will be a success or not. But I figure that they’ll have to change their pay plan if they expect to be big in Australia.
John Galt
Interesting how a lot of ex-LLIers and even ex-PMGers are getting phone calls and emails from Avant in the last few days. Rumors are flying around that Brent Payne offered members of the PMG Head Office cash for downloading the database which he apparently now has.
Looks like Brent may need another year of hibernation to learn a little more about some ethics when it comes to running a company. Should be a hell of a launch on Monday as this word spreads.
I don’t really see the PMG Head Office selling their own distributor base. Wouldn’t it be more feasible that existing uplines, whether they’ve left the company or not, have their downlines informaton on file?
I don’t imagine there’s any way to enforce uplines destroying their downlines information if they’ve kept it in a seperate offline database.
This would explain the targeting of ex-PMG members as their old uplines still have their records.
More Polaris Global paranoia? If one of the employees sold the database then should any current Polaris Global distributors trust a company when Shane can’t even control the “head office”? Which, BTW doesn’t exist since they slunk out of their office like thieves in the night, reneging on their lease agreement.
And where is Decision? May is just about up… if Polaris can’t afford to complete their flagship product, then how can they afford to hold their events?
This makes more sense, and is very common in the MLM industry.
Rumor has it ‘Decision’ is shipping in mid June…. I’ll believe when I see it.
What is interesting too, is that Shannon and John Lavenia, who are part of the GiveOpp MLM start up, also are the co-founders of Unified Wealth Solutions, which provided generic website templates and database for people with Liberty League.
Those sites are still in tact, and I imagine that there are/were tens of thousands in that database that the Lavenia’s are able to also tap into. So, the race is on to grab up people from Polaris and recruit over to GiveOpp or Avant.
OH BOY, what can I say….lots and lots of these schemes coming up from ex LLI/PMG which one is right or wrong?
Then there is ebay and others copying that and the list goes on and on, are they scams? Just people out to make money.
It doesnt matter what is said about anyone, it could be true or not, no one really knows for sure, the one thing is , who the hell has time to sit commenting on these sites, go and get a bloody life!!!! including me! I actually know Kaz and Mel and they are not the only ones out there, so go shit on the others also.
I was in LLI also and everyone of them were full of it. Personal Development? well they only practiced that in public or on calls.
So at the end of the day……..do something that will make you money independently of others peoples money.
And Don Glanville provided that same type of system to LLI before John and Shannon did. Don’s Advanced Marketing System was pure junk, but looked prettier than John and Shannon’s UWS. I know someone that sat in on the meetings at the time, and John and Shannon “convinced” Shane to drop Don Glanville’s system so they could sell their’s. Don quit LLI soon afterward, but now they’re all in bed together again.
From what I understand John and Shannon had to beg Don to let them be a part of GiveOpp… it wasn’t even their idea. That makes sense to me… basically they just latch onto other people’s ideas and projects.
John Lavenia touts his book, well anyone can self publish a book. Then you grab your associates and friends and have them give reviews on amazon.com.
Let’s not forget the “product” : $2995 to buy into a pyramid that “passes up” to the most “qualified”. $1000 and $500 and $500 payouts to all of the people in that crazy video. Make money while you sleep. And you get travel vouchers. Which you can buy anywhere. For a lot less.
How many people really need to buy $3000 of vouchers to “save” on their vacations?
There’s been a few people publishing comments using a different username eachtime and after thinking about it for the last week or so I’m going to ask that we all stick to a single username. Or at the very least the same email address so that the Gravatar remains the same each time you contribute (I don’t care if the email address is real or not).
I’m not particularly fussed what username you choose to publish a comment under but I do believe it aids in constructive dialogue, especially when referencing who’s said what at what time.
I can see IP addresses which is fair enough but readers cannot. I think it’s a bit confusing to have a series of comments published by the same user under a whole host of different reader names.
The thing is – most of us have been ripped for a lot of money by consistant BS from these names – we know it is a con and these poeple are conartist.
I have a desire to get a balanced perspective for others NOT to fall into the same trap that we did – costing us about $80k total. I will be continuing to follow this and post here and other placed because it doesnt take a hell of a lot of time and is particularly damaging to these predators and their scam.
They are the ones that should get a life.
yes – the “product” could be anything to use to promote the “opportunity” which is just another pyramid. The rest of an production number in an attempt to make it look real.
They did this in Liberty League, Polaris, TVI, and all the other internet scams under the name “network marketing”.
Hi all,
I was an ex-PMGer who joined LLI 1 week prior to the changeover.
We took a leap of faith and fell very hard. We ended up living on the street as a direct result of our mistake in joining this company and giving everything we had. We are still in tremendous debt and living hand to mouth.
I do not share this lightly. This company and this type of business is very, very dangerous and they have ruined our lives. If you are reading this and thinking of joining any of these schemes, please, PLEASE be very careful, get legal advice, and don’t spend any more than you can afford to live without. If it means risking losing more than you might gain, it is not worth it. And keep your job to fall back on.
This week, I too received the email regarding the opportunity to join Avant during the ‘Pre-Launch Phase’.
Firstly, Oz, on your comment in your above article re the 72-day refund policy. Apparently the refund comes from the company, not from the distributor. My feeling though is, after a certain amount of time (lets say that no sale is made to replace the lost income) the refund will be eventually sought from the distributor who in the end will be out of pocket, unless they continue to perform.
Secondly, the email I received came from someone who was NEVER in my upline, downline, or otherwise. I have replied incognito that I am interested in the opportunity, but can he please let me know where he got my details. I have a lot of experience with databases, and with company rules and etiquette as to what can be legally shared or retained.
For the record, I am clearly not interested in repeating the lesson I learned in the last 9 months.
I just don’t see how this guy could have my details. I was only 3 under Rachael and all of my upline are still with PMG.
If/when I receive a reply I plan to post it here.
To you Oz, thank you for providing this service. Because of your site I have been able to realise the funny side of this nasty business. I have been reading the comments for months and wouldn’t have learned about the Fair Trading bit otherwise.
Cheers,
Nickers
What about “Yournight ” another Facebook type site , they are spruiking for people to join the “business” any one know much about it
I had a look at YourNight a few weeks back but haven’t gotten around to penning anything yet. From what I saw it appears to be a Facebook/shopping hybrid.
I don’t really see it ever taking off. The internet has too many shopping portals as it is.
Oh Please! Shane continues to humiliate himself over and over
Now it’s official. Avant is Liberty League II because Tony Rush has signed on and started with his claims already. Gene Braxton is in, too.
No product yet. No one’s seen it. But apparently people are already making over $20,000 marketing a product they haven’t seen. The first conference won’t be until 2011. Where do I sign-up?
Oh Ok – In a couple of last years Oz Soapbox postings it was brought up that they may regroup after taking people for massive money on the LLI/Polaris change over. Well here it is!
So everyone will have Gene Braxtons useless rants scrawled while on the plane to read – or better still they can take some advice he dished out while in LLI “Send people to your website and tell them its time sensitive and will only be online between 7pm & 8pm”. Nice one Gene – advising your team to lie with a pathetic line.
I know Rush mentioned Avant on Twitter but is he actually committed to the company?
Wonder if he’s going to ditch Numis or run the two side by side. He was actively engaged in discussion about Numis just a few days ago.
Every dog has it’s day and once when we resist greed, truth appears. There is no such thing as being blinded by truth.
That Rachel Oliver is very sexy and I do believe sex sells. I wonder what her parents think. BTW Rachel I own a certain company that turns in significant profit and was wondering if you could pay me a visit. I am sure its worth the risk. You will have to find out I guess.
silvertoungue
^^ Wow that’s not creepy at all.
hell mate – you should see her close up, without the 2 inches of makeup and without a cigarette in hand – believe me no longer sexy
and then there is a fake tan thing and facial hair …
hey Roger, totally agree with you and can’t she do something with the stragly hair? Then there is the gangly body/skeleton. but hey who is laughing here, she has the money!!
Hey lets keep it above board fellas. Oliver’s looks doesn’t really have anything to do with MLM.
Every business requires recruitment of new people and continuation to keep current customers, so if these are a scam, what about major business that sell cable, phone, internet services offering reduced plans for new customers and do not offer the same to current customers. Restaurants, grocery stores, auto dealers, credit card companies, mortgage companies you name all need customers and they run ads to recurit new customers, because unsatisfied customers leave.
Do best to stick to the facts people and Avant is claiming that they will cover the costs of the refund, not the associates, which I believe is a good thing.
Not affiliated with any company at this time.
The whole thing with these businesses that is a major issue I have is the non-disclosure of what it really will cost with monthly fees for staying in the company, building a web site that is not like everyone else has, the monthly cost for lead generation systems, web site hosting, marketing etc and that is one of the major key issues why people fail. Along with the fact they tell you no selling, you have to learn how to connect with people and there is selling involved.
Also, the continued plug to buy products from some leaders in the association who tell new associates that marketing is not an issue, it is mindset and that when you are not generating enough leads, you are focused on lack, no it is called asking for help to learn new ways to market. When you pay someone that kind of money, they better have the decency to stick with you until you are actually earning money as well and still be there for questions even after the fact.
It does not mean hand holding, it means working together for a purpose and helping does include sending people links to learn new marketing from what the leader has already learned.
That is my input -take what you like and leave the rest.
My personal experience with Delwyn McKenzie, of Liberty League, Polaris and Now GiveOpp – is that she, and I am aware most of them, will support you to a point where they cannot possibily make any more money out of your activities and then you are gone …. no support, not contact not even on any “team” email list etc.
Its all bullshit. Total immoral and deviate sort of behaviour for which these poeple and these sorts of pyrmaids cons are well know for
A major problem in the personal development end of MLM such as Polaris, Lifepath and now Avant is that the “leaders” are all self appointed. They have gotten onto the pyramid at an early stage and make all their profits from the distributors / agents / consultants. It really is impossible for those coming into the business at a later stage to make real profits.
Take Avant’s Transcend conference for example. It costs US$16,495 for four days in a resort where you will be inspired to be more entrepreneurial. The vast majority of attendees will be there because they are Avant’s distributors who wish to improve their ability to sell Avant’s products. Unfortunately experience shows that most participants will never cover the conference cost.
In a few weeks I will be flying to the Middle East and Europe on business for 12 days. Business class flights and nice hotels in Abu Dhabi, Dusseldorf and Zurich will set me back about A$10,700, but I will definitely make a lot more than that from the trip. Avant’s offering seems to me to be exorbitantly overpriced in comparison.
Sorry what?
If my business has 15 staff who are capable of serving 100 customers at any given time and we don’t exceed this customer number, why the hell would I have to keep recruiting new employees?
As the business grows sure, I will most likely need to employ more staff but that’s where your analogy falls apart. In some MLM companies the business is the recruitment of others. So in turn yes, you do need to recruit more to grow the business customer wise.
See the difference?
In all those examples we’re talking about retail customers who, unless the company is publicly listed and they have shares, are not going to financially benefit from the company’s success or failure.
MLM recruitment is different because for the most part your ‘customers’ are recruited into the business as employees (yes every disclaimer says your not an employee and you run your own organisation but you and I both know how little control you actually have over your organisation).
True retail customers in MLM appear to be far and few between as mostly everyone who gets into the industry is sold on the profit generating possibilities of MLM, rather then the standalone retail products on offer.
This page is crazy!
Why is everyone acting so surprised that Avant products are over priced? Let’s be REAL! It’s not about the product; it’s about the MONEY!
People join because they want to make money; not because of the miracle juice, exclusive getaways, educational or inspirational products… they join because of MONEY!
You want get scammed or you want scam anyone if everyone kept it REAL.
This is how you work Avant – Don’t pay for the product and pass up your first sale, then buckle down and start making more sales. There are thousands of people who spend thousands of dollars of stupid unnecessary stuff ALL the time, and if you don’t believe me just turn on TV.
By the way, I’m not involved with Avant or never been a part of LLI, but I am looking for a mid-to-high ticket opportunity that have some type of residual income attached to it. Can anyone help because I don’t want to join Avant only because you guys are giving it such a bad rap.
I think most high ticket MLM opportunities are going to suffer from the same problems as you mention with Avant. The problem with offering high ticket items via MLM is that you increase profit margins and commissions paid out. Normally this wouldn’t be a problem in conventional business but in MLM it means people easily lose focus on the core of the business and just chase those huge commissions – at any cost.
I’m not one for reccommending MLM’s but good luck in your search.
Thank you for the feedback Oz; however, I’m still looking and really having a difficult time. What about WMI? I know that they been around for a good minute, but what are you guys thoughts?
I haven’t done a writeup of WMI yet but from what I understand it’s more a system you can utilise with other opportunities (I think?).
They’re on my list to research and write about so I’ll get around to it eventually.
Can I ask as an aside why you’re specifically targeting big ticket item MLMs?
Why Big Ticket MLMs?
Well, I have been involved with small traditional mlm opportunities in the past, and they have great products, management, and compensation plans, but here’s the problem:
1. I need more control – the best part of the lower priced mlm’s comes from the backend… you have to depend solely on duplication to have a true walk-away-income.
2. I need serious partners – people walk away from the business much quicker when obstacles cross their path when the start up investment is extremely low. I may can inspire a few dozen people, but if they can’t inspire anyone it’s a waste of energy and time.
3. I need a realistic opportunity – traditional mlms paint a perfect picture situation in reference to making a lot of money, but the chances of that actually happening AND sustaining in far in between.
4. Big ticket mlms are not saturated – it’s a slim chance that my neighbor is involved with a high ticket program. You can find super juices, miracle candles, and makeup kits everywhere… everybody is promoting that stuff.
5. Big ticket programs have a higher perceived value – most professionals perceive expensive programs/products much different than if I was approaching them with a get-rich-with-$20 bucks idea.
6. My time is valuable – I rather prospect, talk, sponsor, and work with 10 people and earn $10K, than to prospect, talk, sponsor, and work with 50 people and earn $10K, because the 10 people will most likely take their business more seriously than the 50 people that joined for pennies on the dollar.
7. Life is too short – I would like to EARN big money fast as possible and earn a moderate passive income that can grow on the backend.
OKAY… I’m going to stop because I think I’m repeating myself, but hopefully you understand that I’m not money driven; I’m “Lifestyle Enhance” driven. My time is limited, valuable, and complex. I don’t have time playing the little distributor man.
I’m looking for a high ticket program with a fair residual backend, along with a very affordable monthly overhead, so I can focus on just a marketing budget and not just consumed on “I need to pay my program opportunity bill”. They also have to be a company of vision, purpose, and people driven.
I heard that there is such a thing as MLM Real-Estate, but I haven’t seen it. It may just be big enough for you. 🙂
The former Liberty League high flier Tony Rush has a new video out encouraging those who are short of cash leading up to Christmas to join him in his new venture -Avant. http://couldyoumakeit.com/ Hopefully nobody will believe the lies but his false sincerity and hero worship of himself is nauseating. Tony jumped from the sinking ship “Polaris” onto the liferaft “Avant” via the coin scam “Numis” so it seems like he knows no honest way of earning a crust.
…that is disjustsing..
..there is no depths that this perso will leave untaped…
..and he is the most passive aggressive abusive person I have ever had the misfortune to meet .!
The problem with MLM or pseudo-MLM fraud is they target vulnerable personalities, who just kept on joining one after another hoping to find the “end of the rainbow”, so to speak.
Even if you bust one as scam the leaders just set up another one and blame the “system” or the environment as “bad for MLM”
Proof that Avant’s business plan is not working and that their products are overpriced …
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/01/prweb4993094.htm
Looks like Avant is in desperate straits. Reminds me of John Lavenia’s pathetic attempt to sell his Melbourne event, even to the stage of giving tickets away for free.
I don’t think anyone showed up in any case. Another epic fail from the personal development/mlm industry. Thank goodness, it seems not too many people have been suckered.
Now that Avant has lowered its prices by 60%, let’s see if Tony Rush and Gene Braxton and Brent Payne do the same for their overpriced marketing system that every Avant member buys from them every month.
The associates just took a 60% pay cut so they can’t afford it anymore. And what about people who bought the first product for $1600 when it’s now available for $495? What a disaster, Avant.
See Your Night’s website is no more , another one bites the dust
Looking back after probably 18months out of the Liberty league hole – it was sad time as we allowed ourselves to be drawn in to something that in all intents and purposes is basiaclly evil.
I remember when I first looked at it reading a thing about Lavenia being in a heavy rock band and someone had transcribed some of the words of the stuff he was into – quite evil. Having meet the person and having watched a wake of destroyed lives from it, maybe that is a bit strong – but the old word that is banged around “integrity” is absoulte crap.
Thanks you OZ for taking to time and basically caring enough for others to produce and maintain this blogg.
We have moved on now but the constant stress of the $70,000 we blow on this rubbish is still with us.
All the best – and anyone rading this blogg – avoid these evil poeple like the plague
@Douglas
I imagine this is how most MLM based social networks will wind up. There simply isn’t a market for them.
Seems YourNight is being rebranded as Zing Social Network due to too much of an emphasis on network marketing and ‘making money’ with YourNight.
@Roger
No worries. I actually find it quite interesting to follow this industry in the small capacity that I do.
agreed
All the best
This guy is the ultimate crook. Run as fast as you can.
What is happening with Avant now? What and where has the Australian branch Kaz and Melinda Spence gone with all this?
Of course it is crap but interesting to follow the suckers
As far as I know Avant are still bumbling along as a company.
No idea on the size or success of it though as Payne and co. seem to keep a pretty low profile. Although I suppose that in itself could be a reflection of any inherent success of Avant.
I got involved in LLI after they had been around a few years. I didn’t have any experience in that industry at all. I made a lot of money there and a lot of people that I recruited did as well.
Anybody that says it’s like a pyramid and only those at the top made money are dead wrong and don’t understand that type of compensation plan at all.
As far as products being overpriced, I think you need to consider other factors. For example how much do you think it costs ford to actually product a car? How much does it sell for? Why such a huge difference? Pretty obvious isn’t it? There are advertising costs, sales commissions, overhead at the dealerships.
So let’s look at any network marketing product. They company creates the product, the members pay all the costs associated with selling the product. So while it might seem as thought the product is way overpriced because the member gains a large profit you have to account for his or her expenses in advertising and such.
I’m not a member of Avant but I have since marketed various products and opportunities online. From my experience the most lucrative of the past decade was indeed LLI. There were lots of people that made a great living with LLI.
I attended their conferences and have attended many other personal development conferences since. I would say I enjoyed the LLI Liberty conference more than any of the others.
Yes there were people that failed at that business but that is true with any business. It’s the exact same opportunity for everyone. The top income earners there varied greatly. Some were in at the beginning and others several years in. Generally they weren’t people that came in with a huge following. Most often those top earners were in their first ever network marketing opportunity.
If some succeed and some don’t then I can’t see how you can hold the company accountable. As with all network marketing companies it’s up to the individual.
Racheal is that you…nah sounds to intelligent – must be another one that is trying to stimulate Polaris BS.
It is was clearly a pyramid – just ask the Aussie authorities. They made the ultimate call.
@Former LLI
Rightio.
Please, LLI used a basic two up model. They had no retail customers and everybody had to pass up their first two commissions, which is what kept the company reliant on new recruits to continue business.
It’s not like their comp plan was complicated…
As far as LLI went, it was to pay the large commissions to their members. There are no other factors. The company itself didn’t advertise, its members did – and the product was created inhouse by the founders.
Please. The top income earners who made it a few years into operations universally only did so as they were promoting to new untapped countries (think Rachel Oliver bringing LLI to Australia). You could of course claim that Michael Berry did this but how many Australians did he recruit other than Oliver?
Every other top earner that didn’t bring the opportunity to a new country where LLI wasn’t marketed was in near the begginning.
Case in point, after the US was exhausted, how many top earners were there who weren’t just making the bulk of their income from their downlines marketing in other countries?
Because ‘some succeeding’ doesn’t negate the compensation plan used by the company, which inevitably relied on new recruits pumping new money into the company. There was nothing to resell other than the conferences and the only people attending them were those interested in the commissions attached to the tickets.
To pay for those tickets people had to constantly recruit new members on the promise of they themselves being able to earn large commissions by selling tickets to new members they recruit themselves.
Of course you can blame the company for using this model, it’s illegal (and why LLI got rid of the two up system and rebranded as Polaris Media Group).
The thing that really gets me is that the “top earners” knew only too well that 90%+ of their downline would make no money at all – yet they kept promoting it – and lied about it continuously.
This is immoral and has lead to the overwhelmingly general conclusion that they are predatory conartists – which is exactly correct
I can’t believe people would fall for this crap (again). I’m a former LLI insider and I can tell you for a fact Avant is an LLI retread. Payne, Hamburger, Braxton, Rush…they’re all back. And others will follow.
These people don’t believe in “work” they believe being CONS. At LLI only a few people at the top really made significant SUSTAINABLE income. Payne’s goal is to rake in as much money as he possible can as quick as he can so he can continue to pay for his leased Bentley and 25,000 sq ft home.
Do you think he really owns that stuff? It’s all part of the facade. He wont let anyone stop him “friends”, “Family”….he’ll screw you over in a second….oh….and for several Liberty Leagues that was literal. Ask Brent how many “friends” wives he committed adultery with.
If you get involved with Avant you deserve what’s coming which is so ironic because that’s exactly what you’ll be told by Payne “You deserve it”. Dont be a Lemming !