AutoProfitMachine Review: auto-income? Yeah right.
When you visit the AutoProfitMachine website you aren’t really told much. There’s a video that starts playing where some guy called ‘Max’ tells you a story about how he had an idea to generate massive profits on auto-pilot.
Max says that in order to get this out the masses he hunted down some programmers and set the system up. AutoProfitMachine is the end result of Max’s masterplan to make everybody rich on auto-pilot.
Too bad it’s all a lie.
Read on for a full review of the AutoProfitMachine MLM opportunity.
The Company
Apart from ‘Max’ in the video you see, AutoProfitMachine do not share with you who is running or owns the business. The AutoProfitMachine domain was registered on November 15th, 2011 and the opportunity went live a few days ago.
Although the company don’t wish to share who’s running things with you, if you look at the source code of autoprofitmachine.com, you’ll see that it pulls a video from the domain ‘crazydailycash.com’.
At this domain you’re presented with yet another video with a sob story, this time presented by Max Stiegemeier.
Does his voice sound familiar? It should, it’s the exact same voice on the autoprofitmachine.com website.
Warning: If you start watching the CrazyDailyCash video on the website, be warned it runs for 24 minutes but is still worth a watch as it’s quite amusing. It’s full of your usual ‘don’t listen to all those gurus and their crappy stories’, and then Stiegemeier hits you with his own ‘I cracked the code and entered the secret society of internet marketers’ guru story.
Hilarious.
Before CrazyDailyCash, it appears Stiegemeier ran yet another similar recruitment scam called ‘ExtremeCashRobot’, which appears to be an capture page generation system.
Note that on the ExtremeCashRobot website you can see yet another video from Stiegemeier where he tries to get people to sign up.
I wonder exactly how many times Stiegemeier has launched and relaunched relaunched his little membership opportunities?
Conclusion? Max Stiegemeier is the owner and admin of AutoProfitMachine. Although why he doesn’t want you to know that should raise some alarm bells.
The AutoProfitMachine Product
As I mentioned earlier, AutoProfitMachine do not share much with you unless you sign up on their website. There’s a video to watch and then AutoProfitMachine demand your personal information before telling you anything else.
Again if we look at the source code of ‘autoprofitmachine.com’ the first thing we notice is a bunch of references that look like this:
autoprofitmachine.com/templates/ezygold/
‘EzyGold’ is a MLM script which has been around since 2007 and serves as the backend for membership MLM opportunities.
Given that AutoProfitMachine runs on EzyGold and doesn’t seem to have any product available until you join the company, it’s pretty safe to say that membership to AutoProfitMachine is the product itself.
The AutoProfitMachine Compensation Plan
The AutoProfitMachine opportunity is powered by the EzyGold MLM backend script. This means it’s a membership based opportunity and in turn pays out a commission when people join the business.
When you join AutoProfitMachine you are given a replicated website. Each time someone joins AutoProfitMachine via your replicated website you earn a $25 commission.
The gimmick with AutoProfitMachine to keep people interested though, and to differentiate the business from a straight forward ‘recruit people, earn money’ opportunity is that everybody’s replicated website is on a percentage rotator.
This rotator is split 70/30, which means that 30% of visitors to your replicated website is redirected randomly to other member’s websites. The idea is that you give up 30% of your website visits, but make it back with visits from everyone elses websites.
Note that these are just visits to websites, and are not necessarily signups (which is where you earn your commission).
In addition to the recruitment commission offered by Auto Profit Machine, the company also pays out a residual commission 5 levels deep;
- Level 1 – $25
- Level 2 – $5.95
- Level 3 – $1.95
- Level 4 – $1.00
This means that if someone you’ve personally recruited sells an Auto Profit Machine membership, you earn $25. If the newly recruited member makes a membership sale (your level 2), you earn $5.95 and so on and so forth.
Joining AutoProfitMachine
Joining AutoProfitMachine requires a one time membership fee of $50.
Conclusion
For whatever reason Max Stiegemeier doesn’t want to be publicly associated with AutoProfitMachine and that’s probably something to do with his last venture, CrazyDailyCash.
I’m betting CrazyDailyCash operated in much the same manner as AutoProfitMachine, in that members were simply paid out commissions based on how many new members they recruited into the system.
Naturally this system falls apart when new members dry up, and given that we’re over six months into CrazyDailyCash it appears that’s exactly what’s happened.
So what does Stiegemeier do?
He restarts the exact same opportunity under a new name, AutoProfitMachine, and hopes for the best. Note that wheres CrazyDailyCash membership was $197, this obviously didn’t work out to well as the same system is now going for just $50.
Even with the price drop though, no doubt 6-12 months down the track the exact same thing will happen again (no recruits = no commissions) and he’ll start again with yet another program powered by EzyGold.
Who loses out? You the member.
Recruitment scams just don’t work, fundamentally because there simply isn’t an unlimited source of new recruits in the world. Eventually they all hit the brick wall of nobody signing up and when that happens, scams like AutoProfitMachine fall apart.
Within the introduction for AutoProfitMachine Stiegemeier pretty much lays down a fictional story to hook you in and get you interested. To cut a long story short, Stiegemeier has put up a website powered by EzyGold and is trying to pass it off as some miracle profits story.
The CrazyDailyCash video pretty much gives you an insight into how Stiegemeier operates. I mean really… it’s a nice long story but it’s just that… a story.
This guy is just another run of the mill scam operator. And his system?
The 30/70 split of website views might differentiate AutoProfitMachine from the other basic pyramid scheme automated income systems, but ultimately it’s still a recruitment driven scheme itself.
People pay membership fees, Stegemeier takes his cut and pays you the other half. That’s it.
Honestly folks, this is just as much of a scam as any other recruitment driven opportunity not using the 30/70 split. No wonder Stiegemeier doesn’t want to put his name to it.
Footnote: There also appears to be some security flaws with the system too. What I believe is the signed up but not paid up member list is was available here>, and a list of paid members (ones who have paid $50) is was available here (along with the admin page under ‘admin_f’).
These basic mistakes from a guy who claims to have been on the internet since 1999 and internet marketing since 2002.
Sure thing Max, sure thing.
Update 7th December, 2011: After I highlighted the glaring mistakes of Max Stiegemeier, he spat the dummy and has since plugged the AutoProfitMachine vulnerabilities so I’ve removed the links.
Stegemeier put out a member update recently claiming that ‘2,000 Members PER Day were signing up to AutoProfitMachine.
Kinda funny when you consider that the unpaid member list only has a total of 1664 names, and the paid list is just 1600 or so strong too.
On the 28th Nov, 202 members upgraded – well short of 2000.
Stegemeier also claims his 70/30 rotator is ‘patent pending technology … that I created‘
Really… you can patent a 70/30% rotator now? And AutoProfitMachine runs on the EZYGold script, Stegemeier is patenting that too, even though he doesn’t own it??
He must mean ‘sign up for spam… I mean mailing list.’
So have you actually signed up and tried the system or are you just talking from inexperience here? Because I find that until you have gone through a system you really don’t have the right to tell others it doesn’t work.
Plus, just because Max’s name doesn’t appear on the whois info (like the admin of the website means nothing) All my domains have whois guard in place too and it isn’t because I don’t want to put my name behind it. It is because I work out of my home (probably like Max) and I don’t want everyone knowing my home address.
Furthermore, so what if it falls apart in 6 months? If people who have nothing make money then why put it down? People can at least make money to help themselves for now. That money might even save their life or keep them from going homeless.
And their actually is a products in the back office in the form of webinars which have taught me more in one hour than stuff I’ve spent a lot more money on. I have made my money back in just 48 hours and only placed a couple ads.
I think you are hurting a lot of people by writing this article. I just hope God has mercy on your soul for influencing all the people who need this that now may not do it when it was placed in their path possibly as a answer to a prayer.
Right Joan R. That’s what the purpose of this blog seems like now. They are yet to say that a new concept is worth trying. Because they themselves don’t try for some obvious reasons. They are here only to criticise MLM and nothing else. (BTW – I have not yet seen how this new venture works. could you please throw some light on this.)
@joan
What a load of crap. Do you need to drive a car to know that petrol goes in one end, is burnt and runs the car?
Do you need to ride a bike to understand that the pedals power the rear wheel?
Do you need to join a pyramid scheme to understand how it works?
Of course not.
Forget whois Mike’s name doesn’t appear anywhereon the site, other than his first name verbally in the video. If you’re going to sell things on the internet (even recruitment scams at least be open and honest about who you are).
So use a PO box or whatever. And again with the WHOIS – if you’re selling something on the internet you can at least put who’s behind the opportunity on a simple about page.
People want to know who they’re getting into business with, it’s all about trust.
Because for everybody that makes money in a ponzi scheme, someone has to lose it (unless they recruit others who then lose it etc.) Do you even understand the simple mechanics of this scam?
Can I purchase them without joining the company?
If not, it’s a simple pyramid scheme.
And the suckers whose membership fees you made money on now have to recruit more suckers who then have to recruit more suckers until someone (or a large group of people if this gets too big) is left holding the bag who makes no money at all because there’s nobody left to recruit.
Want to know what real financial hurt is? Invest your life savings in a ponzi scheme and get back to me.
@Sanjeev
Do you realise how silly you sound rushing to defend an opportunity when you don’t even understand how it works?
There’s no mystery or ‘new concept’ here. You just recruit suckers, earn commissions and then they have to do the same.
Seriously, did you even read the article rr are you just going to jump on any opportunity to promote your pro-ponzi scheme agenda, no matter how much of a moron it makes you look?
Want to know what real financial hurt is? Invest your life savings in a ponzi scheme and get back to me.-soapbox
wow!that hurt feels personal.is that what happened to you soapbox?is this why you vent?
To date I have never been involved in or lost any money in a MLM company or ponzi scheme.
I’ve never had an interest in joining either. I was merely addressing the implication that nobody gets hurt in the running of ponzi schemes.
Sanjeev et al, keep the Speak Asia cheerleading crap out of here. This blog isn’t about Speak Asia.
If you want to discuss BehindMLM as a site, do so in the ‘About’ page.
I do see a way a person could create a system like this and end up so most of the money is theirs but I don’t feel that he is doing that.
All I can say is that if you don’t see the opportunity then fine..go live your life somewhere and do what you want and leave everyone else alone.
For those who do, click on my name and join me because I am having a blast and this is no ponzi scheme it is a brilliant idea to help people.
No one I know is pissed from joining because no one is losing money, they are only making money.
We are not talking about investing a life savings in a ponzi scheme, we are talking about $50 for Heaven’s sake and you will probably get it back in 24-48 hours without doing anything.
People, check it out if you want to use the power of the internet to change your life forever. If you don’t like it, go do something else and leave everyone else alone.
No one is trying to get anyone to invest their life’s savings…just $50. And the reason Max doesn’t have an about me or contact page is because he isn’t interested in getting people to click all over the place.
This is a business opportunity and for him and others and if you know about business you’ll know that you just want to keep people focused on the objective which of course is to join up so we all make money. Watch the video and go with your gut instinct on it.
Believe it or not, there actually are people out there that are trying to help everyone. You just don’t think that way, so you can’t see how others would either..
Analysts every day are analyzing companies and determine if they are worth investor’s money or not. Your logic holds no water. it’s just a cute way of saying “you don’t understand us” and trying to create a “us vs. them” mentality.
Thank you for admitting that it’s just a FEELING, NOT FACTS.
@Joan R.
I watched the video, and my instincts still told me to stay away from this scheme. How many times do I have to watch it before my instincts will accept it?
The “terms and conditions” was impressive, though. I tried to read them before I checked the box “I have read the Terms and Conditions.”
I don’t think I will trust Max Stegemeier with any of my “life savings”, not even $50. I’d rather prefer the risk of being homeless. I don’t think he is the correct answer to any of my prayers.
Why do I have to pay him, if he wants to help me to make some money? It seems more like I am helping him to make some money this way?
For those who have faith, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t no proof is possible.
If you don’t believe…. that is fine. But I have joined and I have made money and so has others I know. I will never be able to prove anything to you because of the way you think. And I don’t care to.
If you want to join, then join. If you don’t want to join….then don’t. No problem…but just let others do what they want and quit saying things when you have not experienced it. I have and so I can talk about it.
You haven’t so don’t try to talk about it.
The way it works is this: Once you join (for free) and activate your link (for $50), you get a link that you can advertise and basically you get a site like mine.
Now, as people place ads and drive traffic to their sites using their links, 30% of the time it will come up as some other username besides mine or whoever’s link it is. In that way, we share traffic. So even if you don’t do anything, your link will be seen because of someone else’s traffic.
Of course, it is to your advantage to get your link shown more so that is why you would want to advertise it. Go to the site, view a 5 minute video and once it is over, a big yellow button will appear. Click on it and there will be a form. If the sponsor name says jmrgo and you sign up, I will be your sponsor.
If it doesn’t say that and you sign up then someone else will be your sponsor and they will get the money if you activate your link.
When someone joins and ACTIVATES their link, you get $25. That is your level one person. When that person gets someone in and they activate their link you get 5.95. You get paid on 4 levels. (1st level,$25, 2nd level $5.95, 3rd level $1.95 and 4th level $1). This can add up fast and you can make a lot of money.
So when the last person gets in (bottom level) does he get screwed? No, because he gets traffic to his site even if he does nothing or can’t get anyone to sign up and ultimately he gets sales even if he does nothing. That is how it works. If you have learned something here and would like to sign up check it out.
That’s funny, since that quote was from 1925, from a book called “Tragedy of Waste” by Stuart Chase. This guy also said, “Common sense is what tells us that world is flat.”
Clearly, you got the wrong message from his quote. He’s talking about confirmation bias, and you thought he’s talking about faith.
Thx for the explanation.
I’m not very attracted to schemes like this, but maybe some others are. I don’t care about the money involved, either.
There is obviously a lot of faith here, too, but it’s difficult to identify the faith as part of any religion.
Jesus Christ Joan, what is this the twilight zone?
That’s the textbook objective of an illegal ponzi scheme.
The objective of a MLM company should be the sale of products and/or a service. Auto Profit Machine is just the sale of membership, which is an illegal scam.
When they started a $10 ponzi scheme, I did nothing.
When they started a $50 ponzi scheme, I did nothing.
When they started a $1000 ponzi scheme, they asked me why I did nothing.
A ponzi scheme is a ponzi scheme and scams of all sizes need to be stamped out.
I didn’t ‘believe’ my analysis of the compensation plan. Nor did I ‘believe’ my conclusion that AutoProfitMachine is just an online ponzi scheme.
You want proof? People join for $50 (or activate or whatever buzz term you want to use) and someone gets $25. Then, in order to earn any money this new person has to get someone else to join the company for $50. Yes they can rely on the 70/30 split, but all that means is someone else got someone new to join for $50 – the recruitment still took place so the point is null.
So you advertise the opportunity, rather than any product and the only way you can make money is if someone else joins the opportunity and pays $50 right?
Then the only way they can make any money is if they (or someone else in the company) recruits a new member who pays $50 to participate… right?
Scam.
You know this whole activation thing is just smoke and mirors right. Can I earn a commission without paying $50 to activate? Effectively the activation is the membership you are buying, and signing up is getting past the ‘viral marketing’ to see what the business is about (recruiting other people).
At the end of the day you pay $50 to join the company and recruit others to earn a commission.
Scam.
Only if others in the company are still recruiting new members – who then need to do the same. Anytime someone earns $25 in AutoProfitMachine that means someone new just joined the company (there are no products to purchase retail).
Any MLM opportunity that pays out the majority of commissions on the recruitment of new members is a simple scam. AutoProfitMachine pays out 100% of its commissions on the recruitment of new members.
It’s 100% a ponzi scheme scam, no matter how you try to dress it up with your ‘activations’ and rotators.
here is my two cents On autoProfitGlobal, auto profit machine. They are both run by Max Stiegemeier he tell us who he is max is also available to help & I personally have done very well in these programs. He always pays on time and in full.
APM & APG are both Poweful & Profitable. Dont waste your time listening to these jerks who are just using the auto profit name to grab your attention & lead you to their crap.
Did you make any money with Auto Profit Global and Auto Profit Machine without simply getting new members to sign up and pay a membership fee?
Whether Max pays or not (and on time) or if he’s available to help is irrelevant to the above simple question.
Seeing as BehindMLM doesn’t directly advertise anything, what crap would that be?
I made money by recruiting, I made money from downline sales, I made money from downline builder & also from private advertising sales, I also won cash prizes for sales activity.
You people that write crap like this about all theses people and companies have an angle. You are not writing this out of the goodness of your heart to make people aware you are trying to sway people from joining this one & maybe the next review will be stunning on another program where you get a kick back or something
What a JOKE, this is like me telling everyone how great the new BMW is when I myself have never had a BMW I got a mini-van LOL Maybe You are just jealous of maxs success too.
Ponzi scheme.
Downline sales = your downline recruiting new members. Ponzi scheme.
Download builder = the system recruiting new members with the rotator.
Advertising what, the opportunity? Recruiting.
‘sales activity’ = recruiting.
I agree. 100% of Auto Profit Machine’s commissions come from membership fees and the recruitment of others. Total ponzi scheme.
You must be new here…
Hey OZ,
Just because you recruit (introduce other people) to a business doesn’t mean the business is a ponzi scheme.
Just because the owner of the business wants to compensate a person for introducing others doesn’t mean it is a ponzi scheme.
All this is, is a membership site with a four tier affiliate program. It is no different that any membership site that has an affiliate program. If I have a product to sell and I say to you, if you advertise this product, I’ll give you a commission and if you tell others about this business opportunity and they sell it, I’ll give you commission for that too.
What is wrong with that? Nothing. No one is losing money..in fact, you are getting money the owner wouldn’t have to give you… You people (who think that just because a business rewards people for telling others about the business)are so far gone, you will never be able to make money of any amount unless you yourself work for it because you don’t believe in paying people to help spread the word about your business.
But then you are the type who work for others not the type who create the jobs. Haven’t you ever recommended a restaurant or a movie? Well, this is the same thing only this company rewards you for doing that.
There is a product…it is internet training on how to market any product, service or program on the internet and that is one of the most important skills people need to know in this day and age if they want to survive because the internet is where everyone is going to buy products and information.
It does if recruitment is the only method of commission generation, as all you’re doing then is shuffling around membership fees of new members to pay existing members.
This is exactly what happens with Auto Profit Machine is it not?
Call it what you want, it’s MLM because it pays out on multiple levels. And it’s not an affiliate program because there’s no product. Membership is not a product.
So what product are you advertising with Auto Profit Machine? Can I buy the product at a retail level without joining the company?
What’s that, ‘no I can’t’?
Ponzi-scheme.
If recruitments stopped company wide, meaning nobody was recruiting – those who joined last and failed to recruit anyone or get rotator signups would lose their $50.
The key point there is ‘if recruitments stopped’. That’s how a ponzi scheme works.
Oh I believe in promotion, but if all you’re doing is paying people to advertise the opportunity itself and there’s no retail product and it’s impossible to purchase anything from the company without joining – you’ve got yourself a ponzi scheme!
So by your own admission, it’s nothing like reccomending a restaurant or movie because I don’t get paid for doing it. Nor do those I reccommend the movie or restaurant to have to sign up and pay money just to join some club to watch said movie.
They can just buy a ticket, watch a movie and that’s as far as their interaction with the business goes.
With Auot Profit Machine you have to pay membership to join the company – you can’t buy anything at a retail level. – Ponzi scheme.
Can I buy it without joining the company? Tell me how much it costs and where can I buy it from without paying membership to AutoProfitMachine.
Yeah, that’s obviously why Max has to reboot his scam every few months with the same ‘100% of commissions are paid out membership fees’ model…
OZ, first of all, recruitment isn’t the only method of commission generation because even if you don’t recruit, you can make a commission.
You say there is no product. That is a lie. There are products. There are webinars, videos and trainings that each internet marketing. That is a service or teaching and a product with actual videos, webinars, etc.
And no, you can’t buy the product at a retail store, but are buying the product at the retail level because it is only one price.
You can’t buy many products at Wal-Mart because the owners choose not to market their products to the clientele that visit Wal-Mart. Every company has the right to market their products and services how ever they want.
You say that if recruiting stopped company wide that the last people in would lose their money. No they wouldn’t, it has a money back guarantee. If you get in and you don’t make money in the first 30 days, you can get a full refund.
People here get paid to advertise the membership site. Just like a gym, you have to have a membership if you want to use the service. That is how business works. I don’t know any business who will give you their product without you paying for it.
When you pay for a membership, you get internet marketing training and if you choose, you can also tell others about the site so they too can purchase a membership to get internet training. You ask if you can buy it without joining it?
When you buy “it”, you are buying a way to get into a website that has internet marketing materials and you get a password to get in there. Therefore you “joined”…just like when you pay for a gym membership, you get to come into a building a use their equipment and services.
No one is saying you have to recruit people into the business, you can just learn the information and not do anything else and you still have a chance to make money.
Keep in mind, that when a person pays $50, they get something for their money, (the internet marketing training). Even if they didn’t have a chance to make money by telling others about it, they would still have gotten their money’s worth.
Being able to get their training for free by telling others about it, makes it even sweeter. And on top of it all, you even can get your money back even though, you got the product which means you would have ripped off them, by getting something for nothing.
I really have no time to educate you idiots about business. If you are so concerned about a ponzi scheme then, go talk to the FEDS and the Social Security administration. They run the biggest ponzi schemes around.
If you’re talking about the rotator, all that means is that somebody else recruited.
Whether you recruit or somebody else does and you get the signup is irreleant. Recruitment of others is still the only method of commission generation.
Can I buy these products at a retail level? No.
These are commonly referred to as sham products, included with membership of ponzi schemes in an attempt to make them appear to look legal.
If you can’t buy the products independent of membership and/or there are no commissions tied into the sale of said products, it’s a ponzi.
Membership is not a product.
Who said anything about a store? You can’t buy the product retail from Auto Profit Machine or its members at a retail level (without joining the company).
You are buying membership to Auto Profit Machine (case in point: you are here talking about products without naming anything specifically, what is marketed is the opportunity, ie. membership).
Don’t believe me? Google Auto Profit Machine and look at the marketing. Nobody is marketing the product, everyone is marketing the opportunity (membership).
Irrelevant. Walmart is not a MLM company.
Except that’s not what Auto Profit Machine is, it’s the marketing of the opportunity itself. If it was product sales, I could buy the product without joining the company.
If 1000 people joined Auto Profit Machine tommorow, 2000 people would need to be recruited (by anyone) at a minimum (assuming all new members were mapped to existing members, which doesn’t happen).
Note that you need to recruit 2 members to break even, 3 to profit. $25 on one sale is still a loss, and you’ve made money thus negating the guarantee.
Either way, since when did anyone take the guarantees of ponzi schemes seriously?
Except that in a gym, I can pay for a casual visit and not join the gym. This is a retail sale.
It doesn’t matter what you get, you’re paying for membership and there are no retail sales – 100% of commissions are paid out of these membership payments. Don’t you get it? P-O-N-Z-I!
‘a way to get into a website’ = membership. P-O-N-Z-I!
Whether you directly recruit or someone else does via the rotator – the fact stands that it’s still recruitment generating 100% of Auto Profit Machine’s revenue.
Yeah, membership!
From the FTC:
That’s a literal explanation of what Auto Profit Machine is to a ‘t’. As a member of the general public I can’t purcahse any of Auto Profit Machine’s “products” without ‘joining the structure’.
Ponzi schemes aren’t businesses, they’re scams.
@Joan — Let me put in a few words regarding this…
Membership *can* be a product… If it’s sold BY ITSELF. After all, member-only buyer’s clubs like CostCo / Sam’s Club exist.
However, APM is NOT that, because what you actually have are TWO SEPARATE MEMBERSHIPS mixed into one.
There’s membership in that you get ads and whatnot. This is probably legal.
There’s membership in that you join and you get paid to recruit other people who also pay to join. That is illegal pyramid scheme.
The two memberships are inseparable. Thus, the WHOLE THING IS ILLEGAL.
Ok, so let me ask you guys a question.
If you happen to know a lot of information about something say like how to use a computer, or build websites or how to market online and you build a site where people can pay to get access to this site to learn these skills (this is what we call a membership site). Are you saying that this is a ponzi scheme?
If I offered a commission program that paid out on the recruitment of others to the membership club and nothing else, you bet it would be.
What is being offered is irrelevant, it’s the fact that commissions are on offer and 100% of those commissions are generated from membership fees (no retail sales).
I don’t understand what you mean by “paid out on the recruitment of others”. So if you have a membership site, you teach stuff, you charge a one time $50 fee. People pay it so they can learn.
Some people just want to learn and not market the membership site and others do. So when someone markets your service, (your membership site), of course the money you pay them is going to come from the $50 that the customer paid to get that membership. That is how it works.
If I have a sales job and I sell vacuum cleaners, I sell one for $100. The company pays me $25 because the vacuum cost them $50 and they split the $50 with me. So how could a company afford to pay you if you didn’t sell the vacuum cleaner or (membership site)? I think you complicate the hell of this. This is so simple.
There is a product. It is contained in a website that needs a password and you can’t get the password with paying for it. That is what we call paying for a product or an equal exchange of energy.
And this is fine.
The problem is when you attach an income opportunity to it that consists 100% of membership fees (ie. you reward people for getting new members to signup and pay membership fees).
That’s what Auto Profit Machine does and is a characteristic of ponzi schemes. Membership fees from new members are used to pay commissions to existing members. There are no other sales generated (such as retail sales) within the opportunity that exist outsie of this framework.
1. Membership is not a legal product in itself.
2. The person buying the vaccum cleaner has no connection to you or the company they just purchased from. Your commission is paid out on the retail sale of the vacuum cleaner. There is no membership on the customers part (tied into your commission).
‘needs a password’ = membership.
Auto Profit Machine’s “product” cannot be bought without joining the company, so you are paying for membership and not the product. There are no retail sales thus it’s a ponzi scheme.
@Joan,
Exactly, but the business mixes them together. If you ONLY want to learn, then the business should be about selling the “learning site membership”, NOTHING ELSE. The fact that you have to JOIN to sell the membership means the two are mixed together.
Let me quote a MLM lawfirm:
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/Primer.htm
In case of APM, you pay $50, and you get paid $25 when the person you recruited, manage to recruit someone else (i.e. sell a membership). So you are paid indirectly for enrollment of other participants into the program. It IS a pyramid scheme.
The fact that they can also sell legal product on the side is merely decoration and is designed to confuse you. It’s basically a disguise.
Show me the law that says memberships are illegal.
I have no problem purchasing a membership to a gym or even to site that teaches me something. I AM advertising this as a way to learn not just a way to make money (you said earlier no one was).
I do not want anyone telling me I can’t join a program that allows me to learn and also allows me to market that service.
You say, “Membership fees from new members are used to pay commissions to existing members”. Well duh…how else could it work?
Just like the profits from the sale, are used to pay the saleperson.Of course they are, where else would you get the money.
The money people make is generated by the sale. No one that joins APM has any reason to feel cheated.
First of all, they get products (or services depending upon what you consider education) and if they so choose, they can tell others about it and get a commission.
What is the big deal about selling a service and getting a commission?
I don’t get what you guys are all up in arms about. I mean I joined, I am not pissed. I don’t feel cheated at all. Others who have not made any money yet have told me they also don’t feel cheated because they learned so much about internet so far.
They feel they got $50 worth of education and really more than that because they can take what they learned and make more than $50, plus if they want, they can even get their money back. It seems like the only people who are pissed about this are people who have not joined.
You guys who have not joined are saying that there is no product, but you can’t even possible know because you haven’t joined. I have joined. I know there is a product.
I have no problem with paying $50 for education and also marketing that educational service. Anyway…as long as you see this the way you do, you will never see any opportunities. I can’t even imagine what you must do for a living.
If you work for someone and do a job, they pay you. Someone has to sell something though so you get paid.
Whether they sell a service like snow plowing or whatever, someone sells the service or the product and so that you can get paid to be a factory worker or a laborman or whatever. There is no shame in selling education and getting a commission for doing so.
Oh dear… really?
From the FTC:
‘recruiting others to join their program’ = membership.
Auto Profit Machine generate 100% of their commissions by getting existing members to ‘recruit others to join the program’. This isn’t just ‘primarily’, this equates to entirely.
Pyramid schemes are illegal in the US.
Didn’t bother reading the rest of your justifications, people have been trying to justify pyramid schemes for decades.
If you can only make money by recruiting others and there’s nothing to purchase from the company other than membership, it’s a scam. End of story.
@Joan, why don’t you read that link I gave, from MLM Attorneys Grimes and Reese? It explains exactly what is legal and what is not legal.
Their business is to protect MLM companies, so when they say how is something legal and illegal, that is what you should pay attention. Please read it THEN come back (or not).
Right now you’re arguing from ignorance: you don’t know it’s illegal because you don’t deal with the law on this issue. Please go educate yourself and THEN come back.
Again, you are mixing up two memberships. There’s a membership which provides service, which is legal. We’re talking about the OTHER SIDE, recruiting for money. The two are mixed together, but one’s legal and one’s illegal, so now the whole thing’s illegal.
I had paid for their private advertisment and have not gotten any results from it. It cost me $200 dollars. I have been trying to get my money back but they refuse to refund it back to me.
It almost had been 30 days with no result. Is their rotator broken?
I also had paid for their guaranteed Globel system and have not gotten any results. It also cost me $200 dollars. Wow, they are starting out right.
@Winnie
Not so much that the rotator is broken, as just not working.
Having a rotator and all is very well, so is a ‘guaranteed global system’ but when your commissions structure relies on people signing up and paying a membership fee, if nobody signs up you don’t get paid.
Inevitably new recruits stop joining and that appears to be what’s happened here (as it does with all recruitment dependent opportunities).
Chalk it up to lesson learnt. Refund guarantees rarely mean much when we’re talking recruitment scams.
To all who have bought into the APM. I did too. Spent the $50.00 membership fee and did everything that was suggested in the back office by promoting ads on my websites, FB, Twitter, and I even made a video for You Tube.
I put up with hysterical phone calls, allegedly for bonuses, but was an upsell to Max’s special, ever changing numbers, email list, and constant text messages. The upsell to the special list was $200.00, but my “sucker instincts” kicked in before I bent over to get screwed again.
It took no less than a dozen emails to in their support, and nothing but rude and nasty responses were received from Tim W. the person manning the support desk.
FINALLY, I filed a claim with PayPal to get my money back. APM stalled until AFTER the PayPal incident claim date ended. I got my $50. back, but I spent weeks and plenty of hours fighting with APM to refund.
I noticed that their promotions have “dried up” for APM and Max is now promoting APG for the next round of suckers. It should be a tougher sell since he bombed with APM.
Poor Joan, as deluded as I was, still clinging to her denial that APM is nothing but a PONZI scheme. Thanks to others on this site for helping me as well.
I learned a lot from posters Oz and K. Chang for the education that they took time to research and post here to help the rest of us.
Kat,
When I got in, I made money within hours and all I did was put two ads on Craigslist.
Actually, my sponsor paid for me to get in because I didn’t have the money or else I wouldn’t have gotten in and I didn’t ask him to pay, he asked me if I wanted to make money and he set it up.
I did make close to $400 with this system, but once Max came out with APG and the price was $200, I wouldn’t promote that because he didn’t have enough value to justify selling it.
I also noticed that my downline wasn’t getting signups and then Max raised the price of APM, so that was it for me.
I actually had only ended up promoting this for a few weeks and then I spent my time trying to help my downline and didn’t promote. I too will not promote APM or APG anymore. But, it really could have worked.
There is nothing wrong with what Max created at first (other than he really should have had more value already there), but he screwed it up by coming out with APG and by giving everyone the ability to promote a direct link which meant less sales from the rotator.
I too am fed up with these programs but at least I made money. I just wish Max would have done things a little different so we could all have benefited.
I know others said they too didn’t make money with the $200 advertising and my brother and friend are still waiting for their refunds and I am still waiting for a commission that was supposed to already be paid and this commission came from someone who signed up for free but didn’t upgrade till now.
Bottom line is…a program like this could work but it requires the belief in the system and belief in one self to help create it and it also requires that the person who is running the show be honest and true to their word to refund or whatever.
Max appears to have money, he should just give refunds to everyone who asked for them and pay everyone who is owed commissions and then just close the doors on this one.
@KAT — thank you. Your instincts will guide you, and you trained yourself out of gullibility. All it really takes is a healthy dose of skepticism.
It is surprising how much of this is a combination of confirmation bias, and sunken cost fallacy.
confirmation bias: I believe in “this”, therefore I disbelieve anything that contradicts “this”.
sunken cost fallacy: I already put in so much effort into “this”, I have to see it through.
@Joan
You seem to be stuck in the ‘I got paid so it’s not a problem with the business model’ mindset.
Recruit scams are not sustainable in the longterm, regardless of who’s running them and it’s got nothing to do with belief, refunds or value.
If your commissions structure entirely revolves around membership fees rather than product sales sooner or later you’re going to run out of new members to signup and the business collapses.
This is exactly what has happened and you’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise, or that it won’t happen again with the same recruitment dependent model in another business.
@Joan
Are you still believing in some ideas from “The Secret” or something? That ideas will work if people believe in them, and they will only require a positive mindset to work?
Recruitment schemes are doomed to fail no matter how positive you are, or no matter which mindset you use. Ideas needs first of all to be founded in reality to work. You will only temporarily be able to make them work if you’re using a positive mindset as the “basic foundation”.
The idea that Max Stegemeier will change to become a honest person seems to be founded in dreams rather than reality? It may be time to replace some of your ideas if you’re still believing in them.
My final thoughts are this: First of all, I didn’t see it as a recruitment scheme. I saw it as people helping people and also learning some internet marketing skills.
If you want a recruitment scheme, check out social security. Second, mindset has everything to do with any business. If you don’t believe in it, then nothing will work.
You could be handed a business on a platter but not believe in your ability to promote it or in how it can work if everyone helps out.
I have nothing else to say about this business… I have better things to do with my time than argue with dream stealers who never even tried.
So you are basing your opinion on what you saw the program *does*, not what it *is*.
Irrelevant derail attempt. Social security is compulsory, not recruitment.
Having a positive mindset will not turn turd into gold, or bend reality to your will. You are not Neo and this is not the Matrix.
I have an exact hub explaining the mindset of people like you, on why you are not rational and your irrational behavior leads you to denigrate those who ARE being rational.
http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Danger-of-Seeking-Positivity-and-Ignoring-Negativity
@Jean
Was there any other way to earn a commission in APM other than from the recruitment of others?
No.
Case closed.
@Joan
The original authors of books related to mindsets (Napoleon Hill, etc.) usually added some important parts, but more difficult to find. Belief will only work if the idea has a solid foundation in reality, at least if we’re talking about business ideas?
If you’re talking about other ideas then belief may have a greater impact.
You can see for yourself how Max Stegemeier’s ideas gradually have become failures, even if they worked in the beginning.
Your own belief hasn’t worked well, either. It didn’t change much in this opportunity, except that it made you able to recruit people in a downline for a short period of time. If this is your definition of a “successful idea” then we’re living on different planets.
Belief may change how you think, feel and act, but it won’t change a rotten business idea into a good one. Believing that belief may work here is self delusion.
This one is absolutely outrageous!
I couldn’t remember the exact date…I was in a hurry to pack for my London trip then my wife (Doreen) came told me that she wanted to try APM ‘cos she was rather fed up with her Clickbank promotion. I told her “NO”, stay far far away from anything with Max Stegemeier’s name in it. Then I left for the UK.
When I returned, she said she tried APM. Well, somehow she joined under Joan R. (She googled & found Joan’s recommendation in her blog).
Lucky for me as she didn’t touch my mailing lists. Otherwise I’d have suffered huge losses!
Does APM work? Of course not. My wife had promoted it to 10s
of 1,000s of people in several list-building sites (solo ads)
with 1,000s of clicks but no sale!
Correction: Oh yes – One sale – One sucker (poor fella) somehow signed up and paid 50 bucks to upgrade. So she earned $25 commission.
But the crazy part is this: She had spent several hundred bucks in solo-ad advertising!
Anyway, she admitted her fault and promised not to promote APM anymore.
Stay far away from this APM guy. If you’ve already joined but not making any money – Go get a refund.
I know Max personally and would like to get in touch with the person who runs this website. How can I do that?
There’s a big giant contact button on the top right of the page.