vStream TV Review: Legit media streaming for $349?
There is no information on the vStream TV website indicating who owns or runs the business.
The vStream TV website domain (“vstreamtv.com”) was registered on the 27th of January 2015 and lists a David Bremner as the owner. An address in the US state of Virginia is also provided.
Based on the Nutronix domain email address used to register the vStream TV domain, David Bremner would appear to be a relative of Bob Bremner (right).
Bob Bremner is the Founder of both Nutronix and The Legends Network.
Why this information isn’t provided on the vStreamTV website is a mystery.
Read on for a full review of the vStream TV MLM business opportunity.
The vStream TV Product Line
vStream TV market a $349 Android based streaming box.
As per the vStream TV website:
VStream TV’s Streaming Media Players seamlessly combines live TV and the best in streaming entertainment – bringing more hit shows, movies, music and more to your TV.
The technical specs provided for the vStream TV box are as follows:
Android 4.4 KitKat supports a Google browser, Flash10.2 and HTML5. The all new aluminum housing is low-noise for cooling.
AmLogic S805 Quad Core ARM Cortex A5 1.5 GHz CPU + Quad Core Mali 450 GPU
DDR3 1 GB and 8 GB NAND Flash storage
One question that popped up in my head was who is providing the licensing rights for the content streamed through the box?
This information is unfortunately not provided on the vStream TV website.
The vStream TV box is simply advertised for a one-time cost of $349, with the box itself providing access to a continuously updated library of streamable media content.
The vStream TV Compensation Plan
A copy of the vStream TV compensation plan is provided on the company’s website, however further research reveals this to only be a partial copy of the plan.
As such I’ve had to combine information from vStream TV affiliate presentations as well as the official compensation plan documentation provided by the company.
vStream TV Affiliate Ranks
There are twelve affiliate ranks within the vStream TV compensation plan.
Along with their respective qualification criteria, they are as follows:
- Junior Executive – generate 100 PV in sales volume and have a downline that has generated at least 100 GV
- Executive – have a downline that has generated at least 1500 GV
- Senior Executive – have a downline that has generated at least 2500 GV
- Regional – have a downline that has generated at least 5000 GV
- National – have a downline that has generated at least 10,000 GV
- International – have a downline that has generated at least 20,000 GV
- 1 Star – have a downline that has generated at least 50,000 GV
- 2 Star – have a downline that has generated at least 100,000 GV
- 3 Star – have a downline that has generated at least 200,000 GV
- 3 Star Ruby – have a downline that has generated at least 300,000 GV
- 3 Star Emerald – have a downline that has generated at least 600,000 GV
- 3 Star Diamond – have a downline that has generated at least 1,200,000 GV
Note that PV stands for “Personal Volume” and is sales volume generated by an affiliate. This includes their own purchases.
GV stands for “Group Volume” and is the sales volume generated by an affiliate’s downline (including their own purchases).
Retail Commissions
Retail Commissions in vStream TV are paid out via a unilevel style compensation structure, based on the retail sales activity of recruited affiliates in a downline.
A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of a unilevel team, with every personally recruited affiliate placed directly under them (level 1):
In turn, if any of these level 1 affiliates go on to recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 2 of the original affiliate’s unilevel team.
If any level 2 affiliates go on to recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 3 and so on and so forth down a theoretical infinite number of levels.
Commissions are paid as a percentage of the retail sales activity taking place within a vStream TV affiliate’s unilevel team, with commissions paid out as follows:
- Junior Executive – 30% on level 1 and 5% on levels 2 and 3
- Executive – 30% on level 1 and 5% on levels 2 to 4
- Senior Executive – 30% on level 1 and 5% on levels 2 to 5
- Regional – 30% on level 1, 8% on level 2 and 5% on levels 3 to 5
- National – 30% on level 1, 8% on levels 2 and 3 and 5% on levels 4 and 5
- International – 30% on level 1, 8% on levels 2 to 4 and 5% on level 5
- 1 Star – 30% on level 1 and 8% on levels 2 to 5
- 2 Star – 30% on level 1, 8% on level 2 to 5 and 3% on level 6
- 3 Star and above – 30% on level 1, 8% on levels 2 to 5 and 3% on levels 6 and 7
Note that 2 Star or higher ranked affiliates earn an additional 2% bonus on retail sales volume generated through one generation of 2 Star affiliates.
For the purpose of qualification, each unilevel leg is treated individually (the bonus is paid until a 2 Star or higher ranked affiliate is found in that particular unilevel leg).
Fast Start Bonus
The Fast Start Bonus pays out a commission on product purchase made by recruited affiliates within their first 56 days with the company.
The Fast Start Bonus is paid using the same unilevel compensation structure as outlined above in the “retail commissions” section of this review.
Residual Commissions
Residual commission in vStream TV are provided via a similar unilevel style compensation structure as used in retail commissions and the Fast Start Bonus.
Residual unilevel commissions are paid out as a percentage of the sales volume generated by a vStream TV affiliate in a unilevel team. This excludes their retail sales volume, only counting their own purchases and that of their recruited downlines.
How much of a commission is paid out depends on an affiliate’s own rank and what level of their unilevel team the affiliate generating the sales volume is placed:
- Junior Executive – 10% on level 1 and 5% on levels 2 and 3
- Executive – 10% on level 1 and 5% on level 2 to 4
- Senior Executive – 10% on level 1 and 5% on levels 2 to 5
- Regional – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on level 3 and 5% on levels 4 to 6
- National – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 and 4 and 5% on levels 5 and 6
- International – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 to 5 and 5% on level 6
- 1 Star – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 to 5, 5% on level 6 and 7% on level 7
- 2 Star – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 to 5, 5% on level 6 and 7% on levels 7 and 8
- 3 Star to 3 Star Emerald – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 to 5, 5% on level 6 and 7% on levels 7 to 9
- 3 Star Diamond – 10% on level 1, 5% on level 2, 8% on levels 3 to 5, 5% on level 6 and 7% on levels 7 and 8 and 8% on level 9
Matrix Commissions
Pro Member vStream TV affiliates are charged a $49.95 a month fee.
This fee is used to pay monthly commissions via a 2×15 matrix compensation structure.
A 2×15 matrix structure places an affiliate at the top of a matrix, with two positions directly under them:
These initial two positions make up level 1 of the matrix, with each branching out into an additional two legs each to make up the second level of the matrix.
These second level positions again branch out into two positions each to make up the third level, and so on and so forth down a total of fifteen levels.
Exact commission details through the matrix are sketchy, however it appears vStream TV affiliates are paid $5 per position filled starting from the third level of the matrix.
Additionally a 100% Check Match bonus offered on the matrix income of personally recruited affiliates.
One affiliate presentation also mentions a $2.25 Infinity Bonus offered on affiliates placed beyond the first fifteen levels of the matrix, however no further details are provided.
Note that in order to qualify for matrix commissions, in addition to paying $49.95 a month, vStream TV affiliates must also personally recruit at least two affiliates.
Recruitment Bonuses
Billed as Rank Advancement Bonus, vStream TV pay out the following bonuses based on how many recruits are in an affiliate’s downline:
- Regional – 75 affiliates in a downline pays out $150
- National – 150 affiliates in a downline pays out $300
- International – 300 affiliates in a downline pays out $600
- 1 Star – 500 affiliates in a downline pays out $1000
- 2 Star – 1000 affiliates in a downline pays out $2000
- 3 Star – 2000 affiliates in a downline pays out $4000
- 3 Star Ruby – 5000 affiliates in a downline pays out $10,000
- 3 Star Emerald – 25,000 affiliates in a downline pays out $50,000
- 3 Star Diamond – 100,000 affiliates in a downline pays out $100,000
I believe the way these bonuses work is that the downline quota must be reached at the applicable affiliate rank (no recruitment requirements exist for vStream TV affiliate rank promotion).
Note that affiliates in a downline can be personally recruited or recruited by an affiliate’s up and downline.
Joining vStream TV
Basic affiliate membership with vStream TV is free, however the company also offers an unadvertised “Pro Member” option.
Pro Membership costs $49.95 a month and offers affiliates “discounts of up to $180 per vStream box” purchased, access to a “Discount Savings Club” and various marketing tools.
At the time of publication, the Pro Member option is not mentioned on the vStream TV website, nor does it appear in the company’s official compensation plan material.
Conclusion
To evaluate the retail viability of vStream TV’s box, I was originally going to go searching for a product comparison.
By the time I finished going over their compensation plan however, I soon realized that the company pretty much destroys retail viability itself.
How?
Who on Earth is going to pay $349 when you can pay $49.95 and get a discount of “up to $180” per box ordered?
I will note that the discount appears to be based on how many boxes are ordered, but still… if you can pay $49.95 a month, sell a few boxes on eBay and come out cheaper than $349 for your own box purchase, why would you pay $349 retail?
Anyway, just incase there’s something I’m missing – how does vStream TV’s box stack up against the competition?
The product description of vStream TV’s box appears verbatim on an Amazon product listing for a “StreamSmart S4 Quad Core TV Box”.
Four appear on Amazon, three listed at $349 and one at $348. All have the same $4.49 shipping rate.
The same product has recently appeared on eBay, selling for the same $349. I’m guessing that these are vStream TV affiliates trying to sell units they purchased with their Pro Member discount at full retail.
How long’s that going to last if enough people sign up as vStream TV affiliates and catch on?
StreamSmart themselves have a website over at “streamsmartdirect.com”.
Noticeably absent are details on how to purchase the company’s product(s). And as for legalities such as broadcast rights and licensing?
StreamSmart is a smart TV box that streams in HD with no monthly fees or contracts. The StreamSmart receiver will give you access to movies, TV shows, live sports, PPV events, live streams of network channels, and 3d movies all in HD!!!
The movie selection is nearly unlimited. Whether you’re looking for a classic like Gone with the Wind or movies that are still in the theaters, they will be there.
Do you currently use a streaming service like Hulu, Netflix, or Amazon Prime? Imagine not having to wait to get the programming you want.
Streaming companies have to pay expensive distribution rights which are constantly passed on to the customer. At StreamSmart, all of the content is available immediately, if not in “real time”, meaning live.
Tired of paying a premium for PPV events like UFC, Boxing, or WWE? Stream them all LIVE in HIGH DEFINITION with StreamSmart!!!
Cancel your NFL Ticket, Red Zone Channel, NDA League PAss, and NHL Center Ice. With StreamSmart, they are all F-R-E-E and in HD!!!
Uh, if I didn’t know any better, I’d suggest that all that’s happening here is the streaming of illegal torrents via a database StreamSmart themselves maintain.
Either that or there’s some dubious cloud-based “restreaming” of existing legal stream services going on here.
In any event, on the legitimacy front what StreamSmart present on their website isn’t very convincing.
Not helping is the fact that there’s zero information about the StreamSmart company on their website, and the company’s website domain registration is set to private (registered only recently on December 10th, 2014).
Like it or not, distribution rights cover everything you see in the cinemas and on TV – somebody has to pay for those rights or you’re not watching a legal copy of the media in question.
Please note that “rage against the machine” type comments attempting to argue for or against current media distribution systems will be marked as spam.
The issue is whether or not what StreamSmart and vStream TV are offering is legit, not whether you agree or disagree with current media distribution models.
Moving onto vStream TV’s compensation plan, the free membership appears to be a gimmick – with vStream TV presentations noting that paid affiliates can earn an “additional 30%” on the sales volume of their downline.
The idea seems to be to get everyone to pay $49.95 a month, which they make back through the matrix via the recruitment of new affiliates.
The matrix component of vStream TV’s compensation plan by itself is a chain-recruitment model.
Affiliates buy in for $49.95 a month and are then paid to recruit new affiliates who do the same. Through the matrix no retail activity takes place, with all revenue and commissions paid out sourced from monthly fees charged to affiliates.
Even if you ignore every other aspect of the vStream TV opportunity, this alone drags the entire business opportunity over into pyramid scheme territory.
Pending some major transparency efforts on vStream TV’s behalf, starting with company structure, management and answering the question of legality regarding the StreamSmart boxes they are reselling, I can’t see anyone taking the company too seriously.
Approach with caution.
The problem with this model is it requires really stupid suckers to buy into it, because the same box is available on Amazon for $64.00.
amazon.com/DIAOTEC-Android-Mali-450-Streaming-Miracast/dp/B00OZACYNM
You can compare the specs yourself. It’s likely they just put in the popular torrentplayer called PopcornTime.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popcorn_Time
Which does run on Android. Popcorn Time is free.
So the business model is sell something that cost $65 RETAIL for over 5x the price. Yep, really profitable, selling to ignorant sheeple.
Thank you for this, I was told about this a few days ago, but a few things I didn’t get, This clears some of that up.
Too many MLM’s coming and going, this is the new quick get in one. One thing it had also was about internet, but noone can answer me on that also.
Are they also saying that you don’t need to pay for wifi or that the box just transmits it, and you can get cheaper wifi without having to borrow the box from a company. There is no details on that and it’s wide open for misinterpretation.
Thanks again for this information I think i’ll sit back with the popcorn and watch another mlm miss about to happen from people not doing there homework and jumping in because it sounds good.
Nothing but an overpriced box with an affiliate program attached to it so they can attract the unscrupulous pimps and pay them while conning consumers out their money!
I think you described better case scenario with bittorent as they can can be fast and have real quality HD video.
What I think they are going to do is to use streams from few websites out there that broadcast almost any channel but unreliably and sometimes in horrible quality.
In any way, they are going to sued out of existence if this thing catches on.
$45 is inline with TV over IP entry level box cost. I installed one of those for acquaintance.
This is all the rage now with immigrant (not Spanish) communities that want home news and movies only in their language.
Box prices range from $40 to $120 and subscription is from $15 to $30 monthly. Because of subscription I assume most deals are legal.
apparently their boxes come with much beter content, faster streaming, and then the Money BAck Guaranteed, Warrant.
The key here is not the legality. The key is whether or not the box is better, the money back guaranantee is real, the warranty is solid, and the customer service is solid.
I have the cheap box and it is tough. People WIILL pay a premeium if these boxes dont FREEZE, take hours to buffer, etc.
But if they dont and they are the same boxes….eventually people realize that a better box can be had for about 100 dollars or less all over ebay.
Places that keep their own database of illegal streams have been shut down left and right. Just look at what happened to PiratesBay and the various Torrent sites.
Heck, even companies that WANT to do it somewhat legit, like Aerio, got sued out of business. And all they want to do is location shifting and time shifting (i.e. what’s already available via Slingbox and DVRs, albeit as a service).
The box itself is worth about $50 RETAIL (less if wholesale), and with PopcornTime derived client it will stream a LOT of pirated content for free. Thus, charging $350 to start and $50 a month is absolutely bull****.
For $50 a month I can subscribe to cable or Dish and get the real channels, and they’ll throw in DVR and Slingbox for free.
If idiots want to sell them for $350 only idiots will buy them.
There’s bazillion free channels out there too. But this vStream guy is talking about “in-theater movies” and ESPN and such which can only be referring to illegal streams and torrents.
Chinese has something similar called TVPad, currently on gen3, one time payment of about $250, bazillion channels from China and Hong Kong and Taiwan and all over Asia. Obviously all in Chinese.
Send this guy’s website to the MPAA and watch the fireworks fly.
@Big
The latter. It’s not a router/modem it’s just a receiver. You still need to pay for internet and hook it up to a wifi network.
@Boris
That’s if the $49.95 went towards a box subscription. It doesn’t, it’s just to cover matrix commissions.
You can buy the box for $349 and walk away, and you have the same service through it as someone paying $45 a month.
@Jon
Uh, I beg to differ.
From an MLM perspective that’s terrible advice.
Both, actually.
There’s no way this box can be better than the Roku or FireTV or AppleTV or the namebrand boxes. In all likelihood it’s the SAME BOX as the $65 or cheaper on eBay or Amazon.
Websites in China wholesale lists the price as low as $42 each if bought in big lots. There are basically TWO companies making this, both in Shenzhen China: Zoomtak, and Green Hightech.
Many of these off Amazon even outright claims you can watch 200000 movies and tv shows without any subscription.
Furthermore, the $50 a month payment is basically a monthly payment to get the devices at a discount, but there’s commission going up X levels. That’s PAY TO PLAY.
As long as you pay the $50, you *may* earn some money from downlines. That’s not commission. That’s holding your commission hostage.
I figured it out, I think.
This guy slapped a MLM on a dubious box outfit called
NOLINK://myfreecabletv.com/
But obviously they didn’t bother listing the disclaimer:
But they list every single TV series, movies, sports, etc.
So it’s shadiness on top of shadiness.
This is what exactly torrent indexing sites do and claim. They often get raided and closed down too. But I do not see any protection for user.
If they use torrent service, their user’s IPs are exposed. Everybody, or almost everybody who received a warning letter, knows if you use torrent software, protect your IP info through additional software or service.
I highly doubt these morons cared enough for user safety.
There is a 13:32 promo for VStreamTV on YouTube, under an account with the name “Blair Bremner.” VStream’s homepage links to the same promo. The promo has a YouTube upload date of Feb. 20, 2015.
This promo plants the seed the New York Times is on the VStream train. In fact, the Times’ logo appears at the beginning of the promo, the first two minutes of which features Molly Wood of the Times. She explains how she conducted a “digital audit” to reduce expenses.
Molly is a tech columnist and video host for the Times, and now she’s in a commercial for VStream. I’m wondering if VStream has her consent, as well as that of the Times.
The video is part of story published by the Times on July 9, 2014. The story is titled “Cutting the High Cost of Digital Living.”
NOLINK: nytimes.com/2014/07/10/technology/personaltech/cutting-the-high-cost-of-digital-living.html?ref=personaltech&_r=0
At about the 2:07 mark of the VStream promo on YouTube, the video switches abruptly away from Molly and the Times’ copyrighted content and becomes a straight commercial for VStream.
youtube.com/watch?v=1WZ-lbV2Sa0#t=113
If there is no permission, this is just outrageous.
Of course, there’e also someone over at MLM.com using Kevin Thompson’s name to sell VStream.
The quote, from March 6 in a tread titled “Cut the Cable” in the “MLM Product Launches” section:
PPBlog
Molly Wood is a tech writer that used to work for CNET before moving east. Heck, it’s probably included without NYT’s permission.
the physical address provided for vstreamTV, is also an exact match for the address of nutronix. so these companies may be common ‘bremner family’ enterprises :
8529 Meadowbridge Rd Suite 300
Mechanicsville, VA 23116
this is helpful, because the MPAA will know exactly where to send it’s C&D.
MPAA [motion pictures association of america] :
Another kodi based box with plugin modules pre installed.
The users gamble on the PR nightmare of taking cases to the end users. ISP warning letters for infringing content will come soon.
People forget their ISP would rather you pay them than do it on your own. Review the Viewsat cases from a few years back.
People need to remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want free tv put up an antenna.
Interesting to see the freetv movement going MLM though. Usually it’s kept in house.
here are some details of the viewstat case, in case david bremner, is interested :
it is incredibly ‘brave’ of david bremner to sell TV devices for streaming stolen content, in the broad daylight of MLM.
this may have something to do with the fact that his relative and co address sharer bob [Robert] bremner, had been jailed for tax evasion during his previous pyramid based activities:
bob must have told david that jail is nice, hence david is straining to get there.
Could have swore I read before that Blair is Bob’s kid?
I was so hot for Molly Wood to say the least when I was watching her on Cnet.
Of cause she did not endorsed it. They just stole her clip.
Just watched their promo video. This “service” is not torrent-based. Somebody is mining video uploading services and adding some IMDB functionality for synopsis and actors.
Live channels come from channels live feeds through somebody’s paying account. Live channels do not include cable. They also provide clips, but those could be linked to channel website for free.
Overall, you can watch latest movies or 10 Broadcast TV channels or latest TV shows on demand as long as somebody manually mining streams from movie/TV uploading websites, stripping them of ads and stealing them.
Your IP is not exposed right now, but when some agency will raid their office, they will have everybody IPs, addresses and credit info on file. It will be up to MPAA if they sue participants. And of cause you immediately lose the service.
Personally, I would not risk it even for free. Protection is the most important thing in content stealing. And I do not see how would they protect you when they get arrested.
If you want free lunch use Newsgroups/Secure Torrent services/Upload Aggregator websites. It will not be on demand and often will not be perfect. But that is the price of safety.
Starting a vid with a real news story and following with the commericial is a tried and true brandjacking technique used by link-posting scams for years now – and now being used by the binary options scammers.
But PopcornTime (or variant) does that too.
Robert “Bob” Bremner apparently passed his passion for prison to his offspring Blair Bremner…
Virginia State records have some interesting domestic violence/ assault charges on the kid. How low can a man be when he has to beat up on a woman He too was sentenced and spent time in the cage. Richmond Virginia Criminal Court.
David Bremner is the family pawn for registry ( business and online ) Bob Bremner would rather sacrifice his offspring then go back to Prison for illegal conduct.
ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Unpublished/004895.U.pdf
Like father, like sons!
This tech has been out for a few years, through Xbmc open source platform through Xbox.
I can’t talk for legality but it’s very accessible by all, like rocks on the ground, so how do regulate it.
It works to allow movies, music, tv dating way back be accessible, once everything has hit the Internet its there forever including sports.
This is America so don’t be surprised if someone Is trying to make a dollar any way they can.
By the way all these boxes that are cheap on net don’t come pre-programmed to be functional, so you can order 100 of them,but if you don’t know how to program them your stuck with the box until you figure it out if you can.
Most want a finished product not something they have to work on that they know nothing about. So actually it’s not a bad deal to receive this for the price charged unless your knowledgeable on the subject.
Most people don’t know how a car works but they just want drive. Same thing here.
hmmm, I read somewhere that streaming the content is not the same and downloading the content for a personal copy.
Is a streaming box such as this actually illegal? Seems to be a grey area. The note about peer to peer doesn’t apply here as I see it.
Regarding the box itself. The value of the item is up to the purchaser and what the market will bear.
While I can buy a box on ebay and install popcorntime or XMBC or whatever, I may not want to or know how, so that to me adds value.
I did not know that. This way their programming cost is almost zero if they just bought or stole somebody else’s plugin.
Yes, it is a gray area. Owners of this company will be civilly and criminally liable. There is no ifs or buts about this.
End users is another matter. If streaming process does not have P2P functionality and box can not save movies/TV shows for watching later you should be relatively safe.
So I am changing my position. It is safe for end use unless we do not know that P2P is introduced and than box becomes poison again.
Most interesting case here is how MPAA is going to handle affiliates who sell boxes.
Will it be like in olden days when it was legal to sell hacked cable box and illegal to watch it, or selling these media boxes becomes the same as selling services included in the boxes? I do not know, but I would not want to risk it either.
Those boxes already programed can be bought all over the internet for $100 to $150.
The more important issue here is the Bremners are known scammers and launch a new deal every year to 18 months with a new name and hide it under their Nutronix umbrella.
Their last venture was just this past year “The Legends Network”.
On December 20th right before Christmas they decided they were not going to pay the distributors because I am guessing they wanted all the money for their family Christmas.
Some of the distributors obviously unaware of what type of people the Bremners are couldn’t buy Christmas presents for their families and some were not able to pay their rent and mortgages.
Not only that, they moved large downlines from under some people so that they could make more money for themselves. Isn’t stealing a person’s downline illegal???
This is the Bremner’s track record. They keep doing this over and over again each time screwing over a different group of network marketers who had no idea of their past and future agendas.
Only greedy fools who don’t care about anybody but themselves and making a quick buck would be promoting this company if they know about what the Bremners did to everyone in The Legends Network!
Anybody stop to wonder why the Legends Network is no longer growing? Anybody wonder why everyone left?
This is from an article about a ruling by the European Union on streaming. The entire article can be seen here.
bgr.com/2014/06/05/streaming-movies-and-tv-shows-for-free/
I don’t think a customised box running customised firmware/software is going to qualify as a user using a web browser. That’s obviously talking about someone sitting at a device (phone/tablet/pc/game console) with an actual browser.
vStream TV is “out of the box” functionality with one purpose in mind.
The Streaming boxes are no different than a web browser. People can find the same content on a computer and hook up an HDMI cable to a TV and see the same content.
The Streaming boxes are just little computers no different than an Android phone. The boxes still do not ever download any content.
Streaming is Streaming no matter what device you use.
Except they’d be doing so on a computer with a web-browser. Which is not what a streaming box is.
A purpose built box being sold for $349 with limited functionality is not the same as a consumer phone, computer or tablet.
Not according to the article about the recent court-decision which you provided.
Very good article from an opinion from The White House Obama Administration.
The White House on Wednesday reiterated that illegally streaming large amounts of copyrighted movies, TV shows and music on the Internet should be a felony.
But if you read the article you will see that as of now there is no law on the books making it illegal to stream content. Until a law is passed all streaming content appears to be legal for now.
thehill.com/policy/technology/224679-white-house-streaming-illegal-music-movies-should-be-a-felony
That’s article deals with criminal infringement.
Outfits like vStream TV are likely to be sued under civil copyright laws (by content owners), should a case be brought against them.
This is a good discussion and helping us all learn about streaming. It is definitely a gray area but I am sure the European Union only mentioned viewing on websites because they did not know about streaming boxes. It really is the same thing.
Here is the ruling
That’s entirely speculation on your part. And what you think or how you interpret the law is irrelevant, as it’s clearly written in English and describes an end-user using a computer or similar device (phone/tablet/gaming console etc.).
Stream boxes are markedly different as I’ve mentioned previously – in that they are purpose built.
Common-sense dictates that if your providing (in this case openly selling) third-party licensed content, which you yourself are not licensed to distribute, you’re doing something you shouldn’t be.
(Ozedit: Please note that “rage against the machine” type comments attempting to argue for or against current media distribution systems will be marked as spam.)
If these boxes were illegal then companies like Jetstream would have been shut down years ago. They have sold thousands of these things for over $300 each.
Vstream is late coming to market with these. Here is a box sold at Best Buy. It does what all streaming boxes do. The user just has to program it which is not that hard to do.
I am not promoting this box or any box just adding the link for information only.
(Ozedit: Link removed)
@ chris
from the white house article you linked:
when vstream Tv sells set top boxes, for profit, which allows for large scale streaming of illegal, infringing content, it is easily a criminal felony offence.
Sorry about the one comment. I am not sure what I said was wrong.
vStream TV’s boxes are being sold as is (plug and play). There is no configuration on the user-end.
(Ozedit: What Amazon does or doesn’t do is neither here nor there. Offtopic comments removed.)
Seriously ???
You’re going to go with the argument that a clearly labelled TV Personal Content Media Player which can be re programmed and retails at $84.99 is the same as a company selling an already programmed $349.00 box with the sole purpose of allowing the user to illegally access content ???
Good luck with marketing that line of B/S
jetstream, has subscription plans, which means they are paying forward, for content. you choose your channels and pay for them.
vstream is about buying the box, and then streaming stolen content for free.
(Ozedit: Please note that “rage against the machine” type comments attempting to argue for or against current media distribution systems will be marked as spam. Last warning.)
@Chris
You’ve obviously go some sort of vested interest in streaming (as evidenced by your first two comments, attempting to spam market some other third-party streaming box).
That’s fine, but this isn’t the place for it. If you want to argue the merits of streaming, do it elsewhere.
Here we’re discussing vStream TV, with a particular focus on their MLM offering of a stream box that streams content it doesn’t have the rights to distribute.
Go back to the review I wrote and read how this is being marketed. What other companies (JetStream, Amazon et al.) are doing is entirely irrelevant.
Jetstream has no subscription plans. You just by the box just like Vstream. Check your facts.
I do have a streaming box but it is not any of these we are talking about and I do not promote any box. I also do not know what I am saying that does not meet your guidelines. Sorry about that
Ah one last comment on JetStream:
Gotta love crafty pirates. “Our software” implicates them in the illegal distribution of content they don’t have a license to distribute.
You can look at the lawsuits and convictions against The Pirate Bay’s founders to see whether just providing access to the content is legal.
And again I’ll point out, whether you agree or disagree with the current laws or distribution models is irrelevant. That’s not the issue here.
Anyway the JetStream box (hardware) might be legal, but making claims like this is just asking for trouble:
It’s only free because you’re stealing it.
Throw on an MLM compensation plan and well, here we are. The marketing is what will do vStream TV in, ie. the motive behind the purchase.
Look I’m not to argue the point because it’s irrelevant.
Let’s however not pretend your first few comments on this blog weren’t just blatant spam links to some other third-party stream box. All in all you tried to drop three links to this provider.
That’s not normal consumer behavior.
Anjali,
I know for a fact that Jetstream boxes have no monthly fees. You need to check your facts. Also all streaming boxes do not have any content on the boxes. I have been reading these posts and I like the arguments on the merits of streaming.
Not sure why you are saying not to argue for or against streaming. Most of the posts in the article says its illegal so one should be allowed to argue differntly
That’s neither here nor there.
The issue is an MLM business opportunity in the US is marketing a product they market as being able to provide third-party copyrighted content “for free”.
They themselves clearly do not have a distribution license to do so, neither do they have any agreements with aforementioned content owners.
Feel free to discuss that, otherwise spam.
I think the only thing that should be argued in this article is the mlm compensation plan not the streaming legality.
I think Vstream should just sell streaming boxes like the old water filter companies and not have the matrix and not require an autoship.
It would be more like a direct selling company. More like Avon. I am sure this site has no issues with Avon.
The companies that sell streaming boxes don’t push the buttons on the box for people. People have to make their own choice to turn it on and click a link and watch a movie.
The Ford company sells cars. If they sell a car to a bank robber that uses a Ford car as a getaway car Ford is not liable for their car being used illegally.
Or if someone uses a Ford car to run over a person and kill them. Ford is not liable. This is the same thing.
I have no issued with vStream TV selling a computer, with which the end-user is free to do use as they see fit.
That’s clearly not what is being marketed (or sold to consumers) here though.
vStream TV are marketing stolen third-party content through an MLM business opportunity. How they distribute the content is irrelevant.
i got my facts off the jetstream website. if they are ‘lying’ on their website i cannot be responsible for that:
– We have strong partnerships with MTN and GMC and are ready to custom tailor a package to your yachts technical and budgetary requirements.
– Customer chooses TV channels
– 3-, 6- and 12-month subscription plans
the above, definitely gives the impression that jetstream has channel packages and subscription plans.
Correct, and you can buy a XBMC compatible Android-based TV box for $60, then buy a USB drive with KODI loaded on it that’s plug and play for another $15-20 (or you can download it for free, but not turnkey) then “enjoy”, and not pay $300+ for the same ****.
The live TV on the streaming boxes comes from a company called USTVNOW. Anyone can go to that website and get 6 free channels that are NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, CW, PBS.
If a person wants more live channels they can pay for them.
The live TV on streaming boxes is not all free just those 6 channels. USTVNOW was not made for streaming TV boxes.
How on Earth can you claim every stream box under the sun uses one service? Let alone vStream TV?
@Anjali
You are not looking at the correct Jetstream site. I am not going to give the link but you need to google something like Jetstream tv box. You are looking at a different product.
I just know USTVNOW is the main service people use.
Right. So in other words you don’t know and just pulled that out of your arse…
OZ
You never commented on this post. I would like your opinion.
(Ozedit: See comment #57)
I will agree with you “half-way”. The fact that the content is likely illegal is “somewhat” related. And here we comes to two things: reliability, and value.
VALUE
$300+ is more than Blu-Ray players (most are down to $80 or less) and Amazon Prime subscription is merely $99 which includes all the streaming movies in Amazon Instant you want (albeit, not the latest latest as those are VOD) for an entire year.
For $300 you can get Netflix AND Hulu AND Amazon Prime for a whole year AND still have money left over. AND it’s be all legal.
RELIABILITY
The pirated content, streamed from overseas, are NEVER going to be reliable, and may even disappear mid-stream. Streams appear and disappear on a minute by minute basis.
I’ve actually tried to watch so-called “NBA game streamed” and it’s a nightmare. Half the links don’t work, the other half is so overloaded I’m watching a slideshow on a watch-sized portion of the screen.
All in all, pay $300+ for a box that’s worth at best, $80, for unreliable content of dubious legality is just … stupid, but people has a RIGHT to be stupid.
HOWEVER, if you want to pay $50 a month to SELL these to naive sheeple for $300 each (and pocket $150 per box), I honestly don’t know how you can live with yourself.
I think everyone commenting in the article has to agree that the argument over whether streaming is legal or not is all our own opinions and there are no laws in the US yet that says it is illegal.
Until a law passes making them illegal then the only argument we all should be discussing is the compensation plan in this article. Thank you for whoever wrote the article. Good research and information.
well, chris you clearly said ‘jetstream’ so i had no reason to go off looking for ‘jetstreambox’.
so, they not only pirate content but ‘brandnames’ too?
it’s clear jetstreambox, is as illegal as vstream TV. just because they haven’t been ‘stopped’, is not any reflection on their legality.
everyday, we see people here claim – oh, but our MLM is running, the FTC/SEC hasn’t stopped us, this means we’re Legal!
it doesn’t mean dang legality wise.
@K Chang
People have to make decisions on their own to spend money on something.
I can buy the best steak dinner at Outback for about $25 and its great. I can also buy the same cut steak dinner at Ruths Chris for more than double the price and its not much different. If I want to spend more the same thing its my choice.
Why do you really care so much about the price of an item? Same goes with cars. I can buy a KIA car for way less than a similar style Toyota.
I think the KIA is just as good. No reason to keep arguing if a streaming box is over priced or not.
@K Chang
I don’t understand why you are so concerned about the price of a streaming box. A person has a right to buy what they want.
Kia sedan cars are way less than a Mercedes sedan model and are very nice. Rolex watches cost way more than a Tag.
If someone wants to spend $300 for a streaming box who really cares.
The problem is USTVNow is only meant to be used OUTSIDE of the US.
In any case, they only have a 45-day trial. The actual service is NOT free. it’s $29 a month ($39 a month with DVR)
In fact, they are doing an Aerio (i.e. they’ll get a cablebox and hook a TV tuner to it) if you want to buy the “diplomat package” which means they are going to be sued out of existence as soon as MPAA learned of their existence, unless MPAA grant them a “military only” license of some sort.
I know its not free. I said that. The first 6 stations are free. I have it on my computer and it works great.
what chris?
first you say lets not discuss the legality of streaming.
then you don’t want to discuss Vstream box’s price?
if you are willing to discuss the MLM/compensation plan side of the Vstream model, then pricing is an intrinsic part of the discussion.
if the product is clearly overpriced compared to similar market offerings, it’s obvious that the ‘pay to play’ money has been bundled with the product. that’s illegal.
checkout the burnlounge case. the court found that though the product had ‘some value’ it was not on par with the price it was being sold at.
Of course… *if* they are properly informed. And the website is misleading as heck: not only you need your own broadband (cable or ADSL), you’ll need WiFi to hook it up to and even then you don’t really get all the channels “promised”.
For you and I, who knows how this works, we know the caveats.
For your grandma (just as a hypothetical example), this ain’t gonna replace her cable box.
45-day trial, afterwards, only work on PC. If that’s what they included on the box, it’s “bait and switch”.
@Jeff
Nice try.
Streaming content you don’t have a license to stream, in this case selling this very thing via an MLM business model, is the issue here.
Streaming in general, who gives a shit?
@Jeff
This is where your MLM ignorance is showing.
Overpriced products in MLM = no retail viability.
No retail viability = only affiliates purchasing product.
Only affiliates purchasing product and getting paid when they recruit affiliates who purchase the product who get paid when they recruit etc. etc. = product-based pyramid scheme.
The USTVNOW is not preloaded on any box. A person has to set that up if they want.
Off course a person has to have internet but you do not have to have wifi.
In what your are saying about price. Then all mlm companies would be guilty of that.
I can’t think of any mlm company that the price would not be cheaper if it was not mlm. But mlms selling products have been around since Amway. They are not going anywhere.
I did some checking on the Vstream compensation plan. A person does not have to purchase anything monthly to get a device.
People can also purchase up to 20 boxes at one time at a reduced price to resell. You can get paid without recruiting anyone. People can also join for free and still get paid on members they sell boxes to.
uh, FTC took amway to court and the court compared amway product prices to similar products in the non MLM space. the court found that the prices were comparable.
this was one of the reasons amway was found not to be a pyramid scheme, by the court.
the FTC took burnlounge to court, and the court tried to assess the price of the burnlounge products.
even though there was nothing exactly comparable in the market, the court heard expert opinion to adjudge the pricing. the court found the products to be very overpriced.
if you really want to argue the pricing of vstream boxes, the court seems the best place to ask that question.
so are you waiting for someone to take you there, or will you just ask yourself? it would be simpler to ask the FTC first. then you can proceed to court with them!
on top of selling overpriced set top boxes, vstream further engages in unlicensed, stolen streaming! double trouble!
Hi Guys
I am a tech guy and I 100% agree that this is a SCAM !!!
I bought a Matricom Box in 2013 for $108 on Amazon for educational purposes and loaded a software called XBMC on it and followed some directions on Youtube and was able to install all the channels that Vstream offers.
Furthermore , this software can be installed on Android, windows and Apple platforms for FREE. I cant believe that this company would charge people for it.
Currently it is called KODY you can research for your self on youtube and educate yourself.
I dont normaly write much on this blog but I could not just sit back and let them cheat people any longer.
Thank you for reading
Yes, I checked it out and this guy is 100% right. What they showing in promo video is XBMC software from kodi.tv.
You guys are not comparing apples to apples.
Some streaming boxes cost more because they are just higher quality with better parts. The more expensive ones have more RAM and faster processing.
I had a couple cheaper models and they just did not work good and there was also no support or warranty.
The Vstream box is a top of the line box from what I see from the specs.
I have a similar box that I purchased last summer for $399. My box has full customer support and a 1 year warranty.
It seems expensive but I was able to cut my cable bill and Netflix and Hulu and have saved $105 per month for the last 6 months. That has saved me $630 minus the cost of the box of $399.
So I have kept $230 that would have gone to the cable company. I would have paid $600 for the unit I have. I don’t think its over priced at all.
Hey Tech Guru, I be in the Market for one of these Boxes for $300 as would any other that has a TV set.
Our market is bigger than some Tech dude Pre load XBMC and do you really think that ppl are going to look online on how to build a TV set.
We-us consumers don’t have time for your silly nonsense tech crap..
Simple… Buy a TV, buy a streaming media player…. Done….. Plug and Play.. Typical Engineers/Techs.. Thanks for the retailers.. Nuff Said..
The box from matricom is better in quality and price and of you don’t have the knowledge how to insall you can buy it fully loaded on ebay.
second minor issue, don’t forget by using this box you are violating copyright laws 🙂
this is not a joke, there is now way that vstream can be legal.
I’m sorry guys but this company will not last.
You mean legal crap, not tech crap.
Do not kid yourself. You can not buy higher quality hardware than Roku 3, Boxy or AppleTV2. And it will cost you just $100. The rest of the money you will be paying for unreliable streams of pirated media content.
Consumers do not want to know how to manage all the tech. But they do not want to be lied too either.
I ma sure if you tell them that these companies soon will be litigated out of business and their IPs constantly blocked, you will find 100 times less customers than you potentially have right now.
So they cost $85 instead of $50. *yawn* STILL doesn’t justify the $300-350 price.
Of course, that’s why so many guys are selling boxes and $20 “turnkey” USB keys with KODI preloaded. Plug it in, follow two prompts, wait a few minutes and voila XBMC/KODI loaded. Can’t compete with that, can you?
I am all for mlm but this one is not a company I would recommend to my worst enemy lol.
Spoken like a true freetv fanboy.
Enjoy your liability – It’s only a matter of time before not only the providers, but end users as well will be brought in to civil litigation.
The people selling these devices will get hit first and hardest..
I could go into a lot of technical details, but I will strive to keep my view simple.
What is often called “Premium Content” and the like is not free. Be it by ads, subscription, a theater ticket or some combination of those, such content is paid for.
If you are trying to get a steady supply of free “Premium Content”, outside of free samples or promotional deals, then you are trying to get something for nothing.
And trying to get something for nothing never really works in the long run. There is no real “free lunch”. K. Chang’s comments telling of his experience is not uncommon. In fact, a lot of pirated stuff I have seen is horrible quality and poor consistency.
Quite frankly, there is a lot of cool stuff out on the Internet that is -legally- free to watch, or is paid for with ads. And, considering some of the low prices offered by major services (less than $10 US a month), the quality and consistency alone make it a better deal than “free” pirated garbage and overpriced cable.
It’s such a good deal, cable companies are worried about a growing number of people “cutting the cable” and a growing number of younger people don’t even consider cable worth it to start in the first place.
“Premium Content” for free is a “free lunch”
And such a claim for a free lunch is too good to be true.
Xorly
as opposed to $349 illegal streaming devices, google chromecast streams stuff form your PC, phone, tablet, using the WiFi in your home/office. this comes at only approx 50$ with no monthly payments.
you can stream legal youtube stuff, facebook or even watch movies saved on your HDD.
so, where is the need to sell illegal, unlicensed, boxes at 349$ and get yourself into trouble? why not develop a product similar to chromecast which works off the computer or phone, and makes the content ‘personal usage’.
i’m not a techie, correct me if i’m wrong.
We will see what the FCC says when I send them information about this company, I bet a big Mac meal that they say this is illegal and outright piracy
thehill.com/policy/technology/224679-white-house-streaming-illegal-music-movies-should-be-a-felony
white-house-streaming-illegal-music-movies-should-be-a-felony
A felony? Really, You want to charge us with a felony because we watched Two Broke Girls on a streaming website that wasn’t Netflix, Hulu, or Xfinity/Comcast?
I could maybe understand if I was downloading it and selling it or rebroadcasting it somewhere for profit. But were just streaming the video.Get a grip Secwatchin..
We’re really drifting off topic here.
The point is even illegal context INDEXERS (such as torrent sites, which host no content) are really piracy enablers and subject to legal challenges everywhere, and any sort of box that claims access to premium content is by default, also a piracy enabler.
Whether the USER is liable is not the point. It’s the financial VIABILITY of selling such a device, and that is a risk you need to evaluate for yourself.
Yes, box sellers broadcasting streams for profit. Cost of the box is $100 tops. Rest of the money are for broadcasting/indexing of illegal streams.
Problem with these streaming boxes, they are configured to receive 99% pirated streams. If seller does not explicitly disclose this, he will be in the world of legal problems. But he may be in legal troubles if he discloses it too.
End user will be quite a different matter, this blog is mostly of legalities of MLM or (Pretend MLM) companies, effect of distributors/affiliates and products viability. And this does not look good at all on all three counts.
I just joined the company, and ordered a box from myself from my free website they gave me.
In softlauch thru Mon the 17 for $314 w shipping, then it goes back to $349 for one. or less for multiple orders.
I did not have to join the pro-membership auto-ship. However in reading and trying to understand everything, the autoship product to keep them legal and pay promembers is a savings club, and then the ability to buy the boxes at a discounted level for yourself, or to sell at retail if you chose to.
It also allows you to particpate in greater levels of commission than a free member distributor could do.
I found it striking when I saw Kevin Thompson’s name mentioned. Just because you hired someone who I (and others) hold in high regard as a lawyer, doesn’t mean you are actually taking his advice.
I’ve seen more than one company over the years that had great lawyers dispensing advice that was sound and wise- but the company not bothering to follow it.
Xorly
Streaming is legal in Europe, Canada and most countries around the world, and right now its legal for personal use in USA, provided your not selling the content (NOT Equipment), or using it for commercial use.
If the law changes I see this company moving offshore and business as usual.
People don’t let these Debbie Downers stop you from your dreams…they are merely fleas on a dog, and they show up every infestation like clock work
@Julie
December 2014:
torrentfreak.com/police-shut-down-spains-top-pirate-streaming-sites-141204/
There’s still the recruitment commission matter. Moving offshore to the boonies won’t matter when the company is being run out of the US.
@bob
There’s nothing legal amount mandatory affiliate autoship to generate commissions and pay to play.
People, don’t let sweettalkers talk you into something that ain’t true either. There is no free lunch, and you’ll “pay” for it one way or another.
In that case, I suggest you look up Burnlounge, which WAS shut down by FTC as a pyramid scheme… and how their free vs. paid positions compare to your explanations.
agreed. they shouldn’t let you steal their money so they can’t achieve their dreams.
1) Streamer websites are using advertising to cover cost which makes it commercial streaming.
2) By selling box that strips advertising from streams but adding to price of the box to make profit makes it commercial streaming.
So you are substituting one illegal activity by another.
Wrong again. You can not move MLM offshore and do business as usual. Boxes may theoretically still work, but distributions by MLM model will be blocked.
I think they may just using his name. They could have paid for one or two consultations just to do some name dropping. Problem with figuring out the truth, even honest lawyers prefer not to discuss their business with client. It is usually confidential.
All can we do to ask OZ or any top bloggers with previous connection with Kevin, to ask Kevin what he can disclose about his relationship with company. Or whether company lied about him consulting them.
@ Julie
There are restrictions on streaming copyrighted contents. Broadcasting is legal too, but one cannot broadcast nor stream copyrighted content without the copyright holder’s permission legally.
Selling a box made & explicitly advertised to allow the user to view copyrighted material against that copyright holder’s consent could well be viewed as a violation of the DMCA here in the USA
This is a huge wrong. If you keep viewing illegal streams that violate the copyright holder’s rights then you risk some serious legal issues here in the USA.
Your ISP can cut off your internet connection and the copyright holder can pursue you as well.
I am a harsh critic of the DMCA and some of the draconian interpretations of Intellectual Property (IP) law. But my opinion does not change the fact that the DMCA and other related laws are the laws of the land.
The company moving offshore does -not- get you off the hook for violating copyright and IP laws. Likely, the user of such a device will be warned and would do well to heed that warning.
This is a poor attempt to attack critics on a personal level, rather than seriously address what are major legal issues.
You can use all the circumlocution you want, but it still comes down to trying to get something (“Premium Content”) for nothing (free).
And no matter how thin you slice it, it’s still bologna.
Xorly
Boris said …
“…..All can we do to ask OZ or any top bloggers with previous connection with Kevin, to ask Kevin what he can disclose about his relationship with company. Or whether company lied about him consulting them.”
True, they would be lying or stretching the truth about their relationship with him. It would not be the first time that has happened.
Xorly
I just joined the company, and ordered a box from myself from my free website they gave me. Its a great website too!
In soft launch thru Mon the 17 for $314 w shipping, then it goes back to $349 for one.
I did not have to join the pro-membership auto-ship. However in reading and trying to understand everything, the auto ship product to keep them legal and pay pro-members is a savings club, and then the ability to buy the boxes at a discounted level for yourself, or to sell at retail if you chose to.
It also allows you to participate in bigger levels of pay-out than a free member distributor.
“Access to saving” is not a viable MLM product. Reason being you’re not actually selling anything.
This is pseudo-compliance, which doesn’t work. vStream TV affiliates are getting paid to recruit new affiliates. They have to pay a fee to qualify for commissions and only get paid when those they recruit pay the same fee.
Now what??
Well they either get shut down for being a pyramid scheme, or recruitment dries up and those who bought in last are left holding the bag.
The product is a separate issue, the jury is still out on whether or not marketing a box advertised as being purpose-built to illegally stream copyrighted content will get them in trouble.
Here is what is said about another:
hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/dish-chinese-broadcasters-sue-streaming-782375
Good find. Replace TVPad with vStream TV and… well, what’s the difference?
If vstream/nutronix are including Kodi TV per-installed with the box they may be in some jeopardy for including systems that link to questionable content. That’s a little nebulous though.
Worse, they appear to be in violation of the GPL as they do not disclose their source code modifications. This is a requirement of the GPL for rights to use the software.
That is legally actionable and will likely land them in some trouble.
G
Oz, consider this other angle.
Not only can the potential piracy / Copyright issues get the company in trouble, but it can get the user of the device in trouble.
It’s the user who will be risking warnings, threats or even termination of their internet service from their ISP. It is the users who might face possible sanctions by the copyright holders as well.
Xorly
Oz, Consider this.
Bob Bremner and Blair Bremner are getting their new boxes from a Canadian company for under $100.00 dollars all in. They burned the bridge with 2 other suppliers in the last 3 weeks!
Price shopping can work against you at times when you already have other agreements in place.
The same box, from the same manufacturer is being sold all over Canada for $125.00, their product is being drop shipped from China with a new label on it to hide the provider.
Bob Bremner’s need to generate some serious cash flow to meet volume requirements. The massive mark up will potentially buy some time with creditors.
The returns and charge backs will be the kiss of death when people find the product source and retail ads all over the internet for 1/3 of the price!
History will repeat itself!
@ Chris
How did the meeting go with the suppliers from Canada?
Did your dad or David lock them up on the Exclusive contract?
Where are you guys setting up Canadian distribution so the people up in Canada don’t have to pay duty on products entering their country?
Will the just be shipped from the Canadian manufacturer instead?
There is a very good post about this over priced box these crooks are selling on the MMG forum by andyseattle.
This discussion seems to have broader implication then just a company selling a device that allows streaming contents.
The scope of discussion is not just U.S.laws that makes this legal or illegal, but the privacy and freedom of accessing contents via internet.
Recently new Federal Law passed that seems to give more power to the consumer than the cable/dish companies. This is new and early development of this new technology (media streaming, being netflix was the first) that is very interesting how this is going to unfold.
There are some interesting articles that might be helpful.
(Ozedit: Links to completely offtopic information removed.)
Streaming video content is something people are already doing through places like Youtube. Who is to say that streaming and watching contents that are shared via Youtube is legal or illegal?
If this is illegal why Youtube is still in business? This is unregulated space, because not a single country or company can dictate or control this mega living open-space called World Wide Web. Many have tried but all failed.
But I can see if the company operates in U.S., this might potentially have some legal issues when it rises.
@TC
I see you’ve just come fresh from a vStream TV marketing webinar.
Allow me to clear the air:
1. Net neutrality has absolutely nothing to do with streaming copyrighted content you do not have a license to distribute.
2. Youtube has the appropriate licenses to distribute content on their network. They also have the appropriate DCMA policies in place to deal with users uploading copyrighted content.
3. Illegally streaming content you don’t have a license to stream is not an unregulated space. Nor is it anything new.
Look up what Net Neutrality means and how it is unrelated to this matter. And if you too lazy to look it up, let me explain it to you by analogy.
There are two kind of highways: free and paid with tolls. Net Neutrality ruling makes sure that Internet highways stay free for for all the data(including video) traffic.
Agency that regulates Net Neutrality assumes that all traffic is legitimate. If some traffic is illegitimate, it is for other agencies to stop it. This agency just makes sure that Internet roads are paved and free for companies to send their video through.
And please do not pretend that there is some kind of gray area here.
Little puzzled by this whole streaming box thingy.
$399 for a dedicated streaming box? I can buy an inexpensive desktop computer, on sale, for that – a tablet for less. Either will be far more powerful than “THE BOX”.
OK – so they won’t come pre-loaded with the ‘software’. That’s what google is for. Lots of free software – legal and illegal to download – your choice. And at least you’ll have the choice and flexibility to do what you want.
I’ve had a HTPC (Home Theater PC) set up for many years – stream, play games or just surf the internet – the TV, in reality, is just a very big monitor.
Have nothing against things being overpriced. apparently neither do many people else designer jeans and apple computers would never be purchased.
BUT – there is the ‘cool’ and “feel good” factor that people will pay oodles for.
So what’s cool about this box to justify the price and limited functionality?
They are selling box to computer illiterate people and pitching that they can have all benefits of computer without owning one.
Because everybody already knows that you can get a lot of stuff on Internet for free. But with this box you do not have to spend additional time or braincells or monthly payment to get it. This is hidden sales-pitch.
They’re marketed to sheeple who “heard” that you can watch “anything” for “free” on the “interwebs” but don’t want to learn what that really meant.
OK TC, I will try to break this down again, even though I have talked about the same point in this or another thread.
TC says:
Yes, people stream video all the time, they broadcast video too. Broadcasting and streaming are perfectly legal and for streaming a license is not needed since you are not using the public airwaves.
Copying things is also perfectly legal.
But it is about -what- you are copying, broadcasting or streaming. It is illegal to copy for distribution for others just as it is illegal to broadcast or stream works against the permission of the copyright holder if it is a copyrighted work.
TC goes on to say:
Youtube enforces the DMCA. If you post copyrighted content, the holder of that copyright can fill out a form on Youtube’s web page and it will be pulled.
In fact, people have abused this with “Fake DMCA” claims.
Most of what is on Youtube is posted by the people who made the content. And yes, they gave permission to Youtube to stream it when they uploaded it and/or when they set up their account.
Not all streaming is created equal, if you stream copyrighted content against the consent of the copyright holder then it is illegal.
Streaming itself is not illegal, violating copyrights is what is illegal.
The streaming or distribution of copyrighted content, in the US and many other countries is -very-much- regulated.
Then TC says:
True, but not the overriding fact when you get down to practicalities.
People selling or using these kinds of things are still selling or using them within the legal jurisdiction they are doing it in.
TC then says:
Yes, a company operating in the US, or anyone selling stuff in the US is very much risking a pile of legal troubles. This risk can go onto the user of the device too.
ISPs have been cracking down more and more as they come under pressure from big media companies. It is not unprecedented at all for legal actions to reach even the end user.
If you are selling a device, advertising it as a way to get copyrighted content for “free”, in violation of the copyright holder’s expressed consent then you are inviting legal trouble-
And you would be selling a lie as well. You are trying to tell people they can get something (premium content) for nothing.
You don’t need my decades of experience with this stuff to know you can’t get something for nothing.
Xorly
And if you’re caught posting copyrighted material on YouTube more than twice, the YT account will be cancelled.
Oz, Consider this.
There is no residual ( one time ) in paying three times the retail, never mind the $85.00 they pay for the box to raise money to pay creditors they owe for their line of silver products which they pay $9.83 for and were selling for $49.95 at one time.
Bob Bremners company is in massive debt. They are looking for ways to bypass credit card payment to eliminate any charge backs or refunds.
Blair felt this would be the best way to keep potential commissions clean from charge back issues and not have to pay any refunds back when history repeats itself.
The idea is to collect as much money as possible first and ship when the product lands April 2nd.
So money comes in first to balance the orders and they wire the money to the importer secondly. Rotate, Rotate, Rotate!
Interesting huh?
Streaming has been available for years, and technology has improved to eliminate buffering and lock ups, so if you have the right technology, you can buy technology direct from China for under a $100.
But beware, it is not as easy to load programming apps as some make it out to be. And by all means, beware of using computer for you will regret it as most have spyware, malware and adware attached, and you won’t know it until weeks later.
When I read the posts about prices, everything is not always equal.
I paid over a hundred for my first streaming system, and it died after four months, can’t load a thing, so I guess the old saying, you get what you pay for, applies here as well.
I bought an exact Apple IPhone6 from China supplier for $80. and it is amazing how well it has been performing.
To think Apple’s manufacturing cost is $43. and they sell for $700. Plus is more crazy than any streaming box selling for $400. like Ubox system.
As to legality, Aereo was copying and rebroadcasting programming based on subscribers who paid for contect.
Obviously, they got sued by Comcast, and lost on a split decision and didn’t appeal because it was too expensive, but again, they were hit with copyright infringement, and it was a split decision.
Sounds like even that was a gray area since they accessed content the same way all do, through FCC open bandwidth, so it will be interesting to see what these cable companies will do to try and stop streaming. Not much as I see it.
One article I read on Aereo was a constitutional lawyer who will take on any case of cable company harrassment for anyone watching streaming content, so this is getting interesting.
With hundreds, if not thousands of streaming sites worldwide, I am looking forward to breaking the monopolies of cable and satellite crooks who force you to pay for what you don’t watch.
And who likes their cable or satellite company, did you ever read all those fees and how they add up?
I sure have, and even at $300. I would have my return on investment in syatem in couple months with savings alone, never mind those who offer distributor options.
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempt removed)
In time prices will come down as competition goes up, nothing new about technology, it always drops as new faster IC processor chips amd RAM memory comes down in price.
So with an almost instant return on investment for latest and greatest systems, so how can you lose, streaming is here to stay and legally, they are only hardware, software and firmware manufacturers and resellers are in clear, and I can’t see how content providers can block access like they tried to do with old cable descramblers.
Took them a decade to defeat descramblers with filters, half sine wave signals, you name it, they tried to block cable theft, and when FCC went digital in 1999 they went to specific recievers which they were able to program to stop theft, again, totally different issue from accessing streaming content from FCC bandwidth, open to everyone.
@Greg
There must be someone going around pitching these streaming boxes to the MLM community. Between vStream, uBox and Genesis Global coming out with them all within the last few months, it’s too much of a coincidence.
@Ahoz
How ever you dress it up, these are purpose built boxes designed to stream copyrighted content, without compensating the copyright holders of said content.
FCC bandwith? Please.
Stealing copyright content will never be legal, no matter how you do it.
A computer store sells hardware, vStream TV are selling copyright theft.
no such thing as ‘FCC open bandwidth’. They just approved ‘open internet’ that they can regulate.
Open internet just guarantees that providers can’t charge more for “premium” speed, while throttling every who doesn’t pay.
Can the people promoting MLM stream companies stock hijacking it as a disingenuous marketing point already?
I know it doesn’t help when the management of these companies are doing it, but cmon… educate yourselves already.
Eliminated buffering? It is serious news to tech community that buffering is eliminated!!!!
Buffering can be mitigated. But every video stream needs buffering. And you will be surprised, or not, that most of streams on those boxes will need to stop in the middle and buffer.
Second. You did not buy iPhone6 for $100 from China. It is impossible.
iPhones are sold through Apple even in China. You can not buy them legally from Foxcomm factory that assembles them. You bought a cheap knock off.
Real iPhone6 cost $250-$300 to make if other important overheads are not included. Who are you trying to fool here.
I am not against cheating a system or cable companies. But I am against calling tiger a bunny (lying to people faces) and involving other people in something they do not know or understand.
If you are stealing and bragging about, do not pretend that there is some gray area you can hide in.
By the way, you said “investment”. A no-no in MLM or even in most pyramids’ communities.
More importantly, from an MLM opportunity point of view, anyone intending to join vStream is relying on potential customers either being totally ignorant or as dishonest as they are.
Surely selling via MLM is hard enough as it is, without getting into something which is illegal, complicated, subject to being cut off by the providers AND lays the customer open to being penalized
my point was there is no such thing as ‘FCC open bandwidth’.
I know radio stations have to get permission on what they can use and how much. Even XM Radio – when it existed as itself – had tried to get more bandwidth at one time and was denied.
Bandwidth has rights attached to it. It is far from ‘open’. i.e.: American Honda also retains the right to some of the company’s (SiriusXM) bandwidth to transmit messages to Acura vehicles via a service known as AcuraLink.
Excellent point that I almost forgot. This way Comcast can not charge Netflix more for bandwidth, than it is charging its partially-owned service Hulu(which I remembered). But even legitimate none-paying service streams can be throttled(that I forgot).
But in my understanding, provider only can do throttling if Internet traffic capacity at some point is closer to the full capacity or for other tech issues. And they can not throttle HTML/e-mail/telephony(none-heavy) traffic.
Proponents of these boxes mentioned that “FCC released broadband capacity recently”. But FCC can not release broadband capacity because it does now have any. This is directed of cause at gullible newbies.
Also, there is a difference between Internet Public radio or website broadcasting legitimate free clips and pirate streaming websites.
Pirates can not go court and complain about throttling. Eventually people will start realizing that video on their pirated boxes is way slower than ones on Roky or Boxie boxes.
Serial MLMers of cause will try to hide this fact because it breaks “positivity” dogma.
@littleroundman
Breaking the law is nothing new to Bob Bremner or Blair Bremner. They were both been sentenced in criminal court and did prison time.
Piracy is illegal, stealing commissions is illegal.
This will attract a certain type of personality to their company. Fastest way to qualify a criminal mind, see what they are selling and for how much.
Piracy is illegal, and piracy involves copyright infringment, as in copying content.
Streaming is not copying anything, and with hundreds, if not thousands of streaming content provider websites worldwide.
Even if content was being copied and sold bypassing content owners, good luck stopping them, never mind the millions who will be watching streaming video in near future.
So you acknowledge illegal activity is taking place and just don’t care.
You should have just stated as much and left it at that. Spare us the marketing rhetoric.
Illegal – Hardly
Article 5 of Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament (Ozedit: has nothing to do with streaming unlicensed content. Offtopic derail attempt removed.)
Unless your a scammer yourself I think the previous comment was more than relevant, unless of course you’re keen to keep the argument running.
Fair suck of the saveloy – 90% of the comments relate to the legal issue and you’re allowing comments which clearly are incorrect ie, someone must be paying for a subscription and retreaming – lol – seriously.
The fact is there are laws in place since early 2000 which repute any claim of wrong doing against copyright holders, now apart from the company not having names on their website and a few people upset because an advertising campaign did not turn out as promised, are there any real issues with this group or could it be this may actually be a product that will sell.
PS – we’re selling plenty, qand yes people know that could do it cheaper themselves but have not the shills, time or inclinatin and are therefore quite happy paying for distribution margins just like they would if they purchased in a retail shop.
There’s nothing legal about selling purpose-built devices to stream content from illegal sources.
That’s the bottom line.
If you really are Australian, might I suggest you read your local newspaper, specifically for a story from the past week along the lines of:
i dont know what australia hdtv is blabbering about, because the Article 5 of Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament, actually makes acess to copyrighted material even more tough:
Under the DMCA, potential users who want to avail themselves of an alleged fair use privilege to crack copy protection (which is not prohibited) would have to do it themselves ‘since no equipment would lawfully be marketed for that purpose’.
Under the Copyright Directive, this possibility would not be available since ‘circumvention of copy protection is illegal’
^^ It’s entirely offtopic since copy protection isn’t the issue here.
@oz, don’t publish this if it doesn’t make sense, but this is the phrase that caught my eye; “production, distribution etc. of equipment used to circumvent [both] access….”
legal access should be through distributors who are paying for the material, right? access cannot be through equipment engineered to circumvent legal access?
By saying that
then you are saying that all iPads, iPhones, Android phones, laptops, computer towers, Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire, all Smart TV’s, Google Chromecast, Google Nexus, WD TV, Playstation 4, Samsung Smart Media Player, Xbox One, etc. are not legal to sell.
The creators of all these devices are fully aware that steaming can occur, meaning they are purpose built to have the capacity to stream content whether you consider it illegal or not.
Until there is a law stating it is illegal – it is not.
A lawyer explained, no one can come after you retroactively in common law countries. For example, before prohibition in the United States, alcohol consumption was legal, after the law was enacted, it was not.
Ex post facto laws do not permit retroactive criminal legislation as expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3.
The designer/manufacturer of any hardware or product cannot control what people do with the device, and is not responsible in any way for their behavour. For example, if you go to McDonald’s and they give you a bag for your food and you decide to throw that bag out the window, effectively littering, is McDonald’s responsible? They sold the bag.
In many countries, whether it is legal or not to stream is an unregulated space. But in some places like Europe the courts have deemed streaming copyrighted material is not illegal as long as no copies are made.
Currently in the United States anyone can stream content as long as it is not downloaded or used for public performance, and you cannot make money off of it.
There is no way to target the equipment without targeting other devices from the Tech Gorillas, like Google, Youtube, MetaCafe, Daily Motion, Vimeo, etc where you can watch streaming content.
At this point the VstreamTV is a green light, and it would take years to expect any sort of legislation to be drafted, if any. As we have seen in the past SOPA didn’t work either.
Also, the possible true intentions of the ISP’s was to charge for streaming content in order to find a way to shut down streaming. But with net neutrality enacted, they can’t do it. This decision supports streaming on the net as well.
VStreamTV at this point in time is a global business opportunity that is legal.
None of those devices are purpose built to stream content the seller has no right to stream.
Nor is the marketed attached to any of those devices tout illegal access to copyrighted content.
Honestly, what part of “purpose built” did you not understand?
There is nothing legal about accessing copyrighted content illegally. Ditto selling purpose-built devices advertised as having one sole purpose, that being to access content the company selling you the box does not hold distribution rights to.
You can waffle on all you want with the irrelevant analogies, facts are facts.
yes, i can use my fridge as a cupboard. no one can control my decision about that.
vstream boxes are ‘designed’ to allow access to copyrighted material For Free, and they are fully responsible for selling and illegal product, and making profit from that.
They Are Making Money by providing equipment for illegal streaming. that is illegal in any language. in any country.
Equivocation fallacy.
You’re trying to conflate “streaming” with “illegally streaming copyrighted content”.
NONE of the devices you named advertise any sort of “watching anything for free” type of illegally streaming copyrighted content.
Jerry, let me know when you can watch anything you want, have made your $349 back from this MLM nutritional company.
Blah Blah Blah!
Until you can show the readers a Law in USA this is illegal then Shut Up!
Streaming is Legal because its unregulated, or has never had any laws passed
Breathing is free, as air has no laws or regulations
Please provide exact specific law to back up your argument its not (you cant…so shut up again!)
@Rose
Selling devices purpose-built to access content the company selling the device does not have the rights to distribute is not legal.
You don’t need new laws, this is already covered under existing law.
You cannot sell devices sold on the marketing premise of accessing copyrighted content you don’t have any permission to access.
You probably do not read copyright notices when you buy DVD/Blueray/On Demand. It clearly said that that you can not copy, resell or broadcast what you bought. It is same thing as you can not stream it.
Do not pretend to be stupid. It does not work. If you a pirate, be a pirate. Just do not pretend that by selling pirated staff you are doing business as usual.
Jerry, have you ever tried any of those devices? Does any of these devices come with preinstalled software to receive copyrighted material for free?
Here is the difference, Jerry. That is why they are legal and yours is not.
indeed. it’s as if you shouldn’t have posted your nonsense at all.
I doubt they even have what they advertise. That for me is more the issue than if restreaming is legal or not.
i notice “purpose built” mentioned a lot.
What if the box was sold for the purpose of turning your TV into a smart tv which you could use for the purpose of browsing the internet, reading emails, skyping a loved family or even for business.
Completing spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentation or documents. Checking online feeds of cameras you have installed at your business premise. Watching endless amounts of porn.
And by the way there’s a free Kodi app installed (award winning software) which is totally legit, legal software until you enable third party (not so legal I would like to think) addons.
But the end user will have to make the choice of enabling these third party addons. What happens in a case like this?
Rose:
Nobody has said streaming is illegal. Please quit arguing against a position nobody has taken.
It is illegal to sell devices for the explicit purpose of violating copyright owner’s rights.
This law is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, also known as the DMCA. Others apply as well.
Breathing is indeed regulated, for example, breathing Nitrous Oxide is illegal without a doctor’s approval. Not really an analogy for this situation.
Perhaps slightly better is pointing out it is illegal to breath using a stolen oxygen tank. Stealing is still illegal.
Now, you can shut up with the strawman arguments, there is no point in arguing against a position nobody here has taken. And that has been made clear many times already.
Xorly
@Delman
How about we don’t waste our time going off on irrelevant tangents.
The vStream website is clear on what these boxes are for, and the purpose of the software they come pre-installed with.
vStream TV are selling purpose-built boxes to view content they do not have a license to distribute.
On an unrelated note, why is it every vStream TV affiliate that comes on here just ignores the fact that copyright infringement is being committed and launches into irrelevant tirades.
If it’s not offtopic waffling about how streaming isn’t illegal, they’re citing laws that have nothing to do with copyright infringement…
Get it through your heads, nothing legitimizes purpose built piracy boxes, being marketed as “free cable tv and illegal movies for life!”
DMCA and general copyright law, simple enough.
As for a case, how about this one: DISH sues maker of TVPAD, a very similar device mainly aimed at Asian markets
businesswire.com/news/home/20150319005733/en/DISH-Leading-Chinese-Language-Television-Providers-Sue-TVpad#.VTJoUlXBzGc
Ok fair enough OZ. If a TV box is sold with Kodi app installed without illegal add on installed & activated. Does this not make it legal to sell?
Essentially there is nothing illegal on the box! It is up to the end user to go and locate the illegal addons & activate it.
Yes, if it sold by itself even with Kody app it is legal to sell. If user downloads illegal addons it would make user liable and as well as maker of illegal addon liable and website that hosts illegal addons liable.
But without illegal addons, value of the box is around $60 + $20 for Kody. Who would pay $400 then?
Yes, those third party addons that offer copyrighted content for free are illegal. As from recent cases, you can not even install app that streams broadcast channels with ads intact if it is not authorized by channel owner/broadcaster.
If box comes preinstalled with illegal addons than whoever preinstalled them and/or sold this box is breaking the law. Liability of user maybe questionable than (sometimes end users can go with stupidity defense if no disclosure is available).
Blair Bremner will tell you off the record “If these dumb ass stupid people are will to pay for it, we can make a fortune off it”.
We are flying under the radar and I love it!
@Delman
Provided you’re not marketing as “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV LICENSED PAYTV STREAMS AND ILLEGAL MOVEIS 4 LIFE!”, then sure.
The marketing is just as important as the hardware.
Jerry was right, the VstreamTV is legal.
The DMCA does not apply to watching streaming content. The Digital Millennial Copyright Act – DMCA – is in regards to the attempted circumvention of Digital Rights Management technology that is embedded in CD’s and DVD’s.
The Digital Millennial Copyright Act was written 17 years ago and designed to prevent people from creating or disseminating devices that “code crack” the Digital Rights Management software in CD’s and DVD’s.
Watching streaming content facilitated by streaming devices does not violate the DMCA.
@Roger
Selling boxes with pre-installed software and “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV, PAYTV AND ILLEGAL MOVIES FOR LIFE!” marketing would easily qualify as the above.
PayTV and content licenses = access control. No fee, no license to distribute. And vStreamTV are obviously not paying the copyright holders of the content they are advertising is accessible through their box without any user-configuration.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
Did you ever even read anything about Copyright Laws you are breaking? Here is link to the law.
gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title17/html/USCODE-2010-title17-chap5-sec506.htm
Internet is computer network. You are making copyright material available to members of the public for commercial gain knowing that said material is only for commercial distribution.
You are breaking the law. Copyright Law U.S.C. Title 17 Section 506. Case closed.
The act of delivery of a work being “prepared” for commercial distribution, in essence a pre-release.
This means that works that are not ready or complete are somehow released when they are in a “preparation” stage. There are no works available that are in a preparation stage on the VstreamTV.
The VstreamTV is connected to a wi-fi or ethernet connection and by no means for the purpose of mass “public performance.” It is specifically marketed as not to be used for public performance.
At what point does a work no longer constitute commercial distribution? After being purchased doesn’t the work become the property of the person who bought it?
Hasn’t the right to “show” the content to whomever they want become the option of the owner? How many people out there share their movies with their friends and family? Is sharing illegal?
@Hammad
None of that addresses a purpose built box advertised as “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV, EPISODES AND ILLEGAL MOVIES FOR LIFE!”.
vStream TV do not own the distribution rights, nor are they in a partnership with anyone who does, for the available content they specifically advertise.
…you don’t need distribution rights to sell a Streaming Box – the vstream box itself nor the company host…store…or make copies of the stuff that is being streamed
…the vstream searches the Internet for free streams … & it comes installed to stream Facebook… Netflix…Youtube… FoxNews.com… Apple Itunes…
you can browse the web with a browser… use Google… check your email… & play candy crush & access the Playstore to install apps on the box…because it runs on the Google software
…and…Wherever you got that line about a purpose built box for free cable tv episodes and illegal movies for life, did not come from Vstream…
@Robin
vStream TV don’t sell that, they sell “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV AND ILLEGAL MOVIES ALL YOU CAN EAT LOLZ!”
Taken directly from the vStream TV website:
There’s a difference.
How can you say it with straight face. Releasing per-released shows/movies without permission of studio is the biggest crime in copyright laws. People, if they are caught, always go to jail for this crime.
Stop spouting complete nonsense. There is not gray are with this box preinstalled with illegal software. You are breaking Copyright Law U.S.C. Title 17 Section 506.
gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title17/html/USCODE-2010-title17-chap5-sec506.htm
I am going to repeat this link until people stop reading and stop pretending to be stupid.
It did not come from manufacturer of the box (some unnamed Chinese company).
It came directly from people who are installing software on the box, marketing box and selling box. And it comes from people inventing excuses for it.
I agree with Robin…
The box does a lot more functions than specifically streaming. (fact)
OZ your purpose built theory is incorrect. (GONE) Don’t repeat BS
Did you even look at all the other functions this box does besides streaming?
Oz you would have to say computers/phones/tablets etc are in the same category. As they do the same functions in many ways.
Perhaps ripp on UBoxLive who are charging $449 vs $299 than run out of facts here…
My view is new law will have to be drafted to stop streaming and online content (youtube etc), and when the rest of the world gives it ‘legal’ status …I say NO it wont happen.
There is more argument for streaming is legal than NOT.
Amazon (Ozedit: is not an MLM company and is therefore irrelevant.)
Once again, vStream TV affiliates attempt to steer the discussion towards the legality of streaming…
Streaming is legal, selling a purpose-built box that is advertised as “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV, PAY PER VIEW AND ILLEGAL PIRATED MOVIES FOR LIFE LOLOL!” is not.
Yet that’s precisely what vStream TV and their affiliates are selling, via an MLM business model.
What else the box can or can’t do is irrelvant. This is what is being marketed and sold to the general public.
VStreamsTV’s box displays links…
Linking websites (Ozedit: Cut. vStream TV is not a “linking website”.)
Attention vStream TV affiliates:
You and your company are advertising “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV, PAY PER VIEW AND ILLEGAL MOVIEZ 4 LIFE LOLOLOL!!” via an MLM business model in the US.
Proof.
Any further attempts to derail or introduce completely irrelevant dialogue into the discussion will not be responded to and simply marked spam.
Oz, thank you.
The constant against the straw-man of “streaming isn’t illegal”, when nobody said it was illegal, was getting old.
It’s just dodging the main point- they are trying to push the idea that, for the price of the box, you can get something (premium content) for nothing (without paying or someone paying).
Xorly
Here is a small example of what will happen eventually to illigal streamers:
(Ozedit: Link removed, public screening is not what’s happening here.)
VStreamTV’s box searches and finds external links to content…it does not host content, download content…big difference.
The important question to answer is VStreamTV directly linking to infringing content on another site constitutes direct infringement. NO!
Nope. If that were true, ThePirateBay wouldn’t be in as much **** it is now. Instead, its leaders are being arrested on sight
techcrunch.com/2014/11/04/police-finally-arrest-the-third-and-final-founder-of-the-pirate-bay/
and now it’s about to lose its domain name.
extremetech.com/internet/203911-the-pirate-bays-domain-name-may-be-seized-next-week
At best, you’re hoping for security through obscurity (i.e. there’s bigger fish to fry). If you are resting your financial freedom on that, you may as well flushing your money down the drain nwo.
It comes preinstalled with app that directly links to infringing content. So answer is YES!!!
It also downloads infringing content. YES!!! It promotes illegal activity. YES!!!! It does not disclose to end user that they will be breaking the law. YES!!!
@Steve
Actually the only important question to answer is whether vStreamTV and their affiliates are advertising “ZOMG FREE CABLE TV, UNLICENSED PAY PER VIEW STREAMS AND ILLEGAL MOVIES ALLYOUCANEAT LOLOLOL!”… the answer to which of course is yes.
In re-reading most of these comments, I’m wondering WHY @oz et.al. continue this thread.
If I had a dollar for every time I read the words “purpose-built” I’d very happy – meaning I think we all get the idea.
It seems everything is “legal” save for the fact that THESE companie(S) are building boxes which are apparently Illegal.
Not sure how many of you posting here are also on FB; but I’m seeing a lot of people who I know getting either the Ubox, Jetbox etc. etc. Clearly, who would deliberately want to pay $399 when they can get the same thing for $299? But I digress.
I believe that due to social media (FB especially) being what it IS, that as more and more people become aware of this “box”, they will purchasing it too – particularly with the 30 day free return if not satisfied.
My friends LOVE it. These are smart individuals who would not risk jailtime for doing something illegal……..so I’m not really sure where all of this is headed.
At the very top was an honest and excellent review, followed by 1,000 comments. That being said, we have the folks denouncing the box as being illegal; and those who are confused – LOL.
In the end -the bottom line – is that people WILL CONTINUE to buy these boxes.
As with all things electronic, prices will fall, so that will no longer be an issue. That can only happen as more and more companies decide they want to create a “bigger, better, and cheaper box”. Before you know it – it will the Roku box of the 2015’s.
Whose going to pull the switch? Just sayin’ . . . . . . .
I apologize for leaving a few words out and my grammar/spelling. I type too fast and forget that I can’t edit what I’ve written, from a writer’s perspective. 🙂
Is that these no-name boxes are overpriced and thus is nothing than a facade that is overpriced to feed money to the top recruits and the company from the ignorant masses.
People who know nothing should buy Roku / FireTV / Apple TV / Android TV (or whatever it’s called nowadays). It’s cheaper to go legal. The potentially illegal boxes don’t do any more than the legal ones legally, but costs several times more.
And if they want to go illegal, they should know the real risks rather than ad copies that overpromises and underdelivers.
So if someone wants to buy the items to get the same service offered by vstream, what would they purchase or need to obtain.
Part of the vstream enticement is that you do not need to connect to a computer.
Vstreamtv sells boxes without Genesis / Kodi installed.
Just like Amazon does, and many other online electronics retailers.
… There for the box is NOT purpose built, or has intent to stream as its NOT set up to do so, or has the software capability.
If a distributor installs these software programs on the box, to access streaming content then they have the responsibility ‘if’ any legal issues arise. NOT Vstreamtv
There for the box is just a computer, like any other device that could be used for streaming if the owner of the box/user decides to download the software.
They would have to go after the end user, and we know globally the majority of countries have said no to that.
Is this a new development, because that wasn’t previously the case.
Trying to pretend like it was is disingenuous.
So they now publicly admit they are selling a $50 box for $300-400.
Hahahahaha.
The primary function of the VStream boxes seems to be streaming related.
Computer manufacturers will normally not call their computers something like that. “VStream TV’s Streaming Media Player” indicates a more specialised use.
A cell phone will be seen as a cell phone even if it will require a third party subscription to work as a cell phone
Nu Rev ( DBA VStream) may be selling empty boxes for $349.00+shipping. But then why do they show people how to download the required set ups..
Blair and his underground buddies were promoting The Fight Of The Century FREE. No need to pay the PPV fees.
Bob Bremner is feeling the pressure and wants to avoid prison time at age 72. Bob has no desire to visit his old cell a second time!
Wonder if the box works in Prison? Blair ( sorry Chris ) you are on here watching. What do you think? I heard you can watch every season of prison break in the seasonal shows!
Lol @ VstreamTV pseudo-compliance.
You’re still selling purpose built boxes if “how to use our device to watch unlicensed content” forms part of your marketing pitch.
Streaming isn’t illegal in itself. The illegal part is about WHAT they’re streaming from WHICH sources, i.e. copyrighted material from unlicensed sources.
The illegal part may also be about whether the box is being marketed and sold for that specific purpose.
But it will need to be about something specific, e.g. the Mayweather vs. Pacquaio fight. “Access to 2,000 TV-channels” isn’t very specific. Many of those TV-channels are probably free to watch and may not be harmed by some additional distribution.
There’s a promo video on the vStreamTV website that prominently has displayed “movie2k.to” in the thumbnail.
A quick visit to that website reveals a bunch of stream links to unlicensed content.
This is an official vStreamTV corporate marketing video. It also shows Kodi pre-installed.
No mention of it not being bundled with the box, so they’re still marketing purpose-built boxes from the corporate side.
The video is pretty much a step by step how to access unlicensed content using vStream TV’s purpose-built box.
i read the review hoping to gain incite and it was very informative.
even the issues deemed irrelevant but i feel that the box in it self weather legal or illegal by the time the law is in forced or created to be in-forced some will be happy some will be sad and some will be mad but most of all some one will get paid.
Here your hip pocket is irrelevant. There are greater issues at play.
Going on about “getting paid” only betrays how low you personally are willing to sink.
The real attraction here is getting away with breaking the law.
Some people have a compulsive fetish for shop lifting, stalking, sex, gambling, tax evasion, cheating on a spouse, strip clubs, alcohol, narcotics, mile high clubs, breaking and entering, pirating software and now ripping of the movie production industry.
Something the Bremner family knows all to well!
The business model does not work period. The boxes they sell for a ridiculous price can be purchases do 29.95.
You can dowload Kodi for free which is the platform they use to stream movies.
The cashback program you get as an affiliate is comical at best…..and has almost become expected with any membership these days. If you think you dont have a cashback program…look again…because chances are you have 3 or 4 with other memberhips.
The only people that will buy boxes will be the affiliates who are trying to rip others off.
Vstream is not part of the Net Neutraility issue here…They are selling a mini computer that comes preloaded with software…plain and simple..
Key Words = CASH, GRAB, MONEY, GAME, ONLINE, OFFLINE, UNETHICAL, CRIMINAL, BEHAVIOR, BOB, BLAIR, BREMNER, CHEAT, STEAL, JUSTIFY, RIP, OFF, SCAM, MONOPOLY, JAIL, FREE, MOVIES, PAY PER VIEW, DESPARATE, NU REV, MECHANICSVILLE, VIRGINIA, $75.00, PROFIT, COMPANY, V STREAM, BOX, BEFORE, COMMISSIONS, CALCULATED, PLUS, BREAKAGE, UR, SCREWED, BIZ, OPPORTUNITY, SEEKERS, BOGUS,OPPERATION, WE, NEED, MONEY, Broke
Justify it any way you want. A rose is a rose! And this does not smell like a rose!
VStream is the real deal this product for mlm at $49 amonth is doable for all.
Over 18 years of this industary now comes along a product with real VALUE.
you’ve been losing money for 18 years. why should anyone listen to you?
If by “doable” you mean “pay them $49 a month”, absolutely.
If by “doable” you mean “someone pay for for this box”, you must be living somewhere without an Internet, and this is a shill speaking in your name.
Down Town Eddie,
How’s it going man? Whatcha paying them $49 a month for bro?
Don’t tell me you bought into to that phantom membership Sherlock!
A lot of “I think” going on here. Don’t see anyone with negative comments that have tried it. I have and it is the best on the market right now.
It is legal too because the FCC rule says the airway is free.
My question is how has cable and satellite got by with it for so long. They are scrambling to come up with something to compete. You do need internet service to connect by wifi or plug the internet into the box.
If you want cheap you get cheap! VStreamTV now has a TV guide and great things to come!
And that has what to do with vStream TV marketing content they don’t have a license to distribute?
Don’t regurgitate crap you heard at a marketing presentation, you just make yourself look like an idiot.
Whenever the developers of the third-party software use get around to it, sure.
(Ozedit: The issue is the marketing of purpose-built piracy boxes. Nobody is debating the legality of hardware or streaming technology.)
My take on all this is, in this time and age where everything is so expensive and people losing their jobs and people working from home saving money is the thing to do and if you can save money watching the same stuff as you would paying hundreds of dollars a month for just about free then I will pay 50 dollars a month and make me some money…
We have all a free will and choices pay for the high cable bill or get a box..do the math 49.95 x 12 months is 599.40 versus cable that is at least 149.00 a month times 12 months…
unless your rich saving money is always better than throwing it away..
So steal everything you can’t afford… Piracy is piracy chief, and profiting from it puts a big target on your back.
I agree with post #66 Why would I not just pay for netflix (which I do) and hulu where I know the content is legal and it will not drop me on a dime.
As for the business opportunity part – no way would I sell this to others without knowing for a FACT it is legal. I sleep well at night and I plan on keeping it that way.
Wow, you guys all sound so smart with all your “knowledge” about law, and technology, and peoples’ criminal records.
Vstream is not selling pirated content. The company is not violating the DCMA or copyright law.
The facts are that (Ozedit: vStream is selling access to piracy through a purpose-built piracy box. Offtopic derail attempts removed.)
^^ You can crap on all you want, there’s nothing legitimate about selling piracy.
And the fact that this is being done through the MLM industry is a disgrace.
By that logic, homeless bums should have a license to rob anybody and not get arrested.
Hilarious, dude. Hilarious.
Yeah right. You guys are all disgruntled broke people probably. You offered no substantiated rebuttal except for your OPINIONS about the matter.
The fact remains that there is nothing ILLEGAL about this enterprise under the laws that currently exist.
And to the shrill who called out a person about “18 years and you’re still broke so why should we listen to you?” comment, the person was talking about Nutronix being in business 18 years, not himself.
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed)
hurtin’ your scam are we. lmao!
(Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempt removed)
You guys don’t care about the FACT that NOBODY is pirating anything “because of a box”, and no laws have been broken.
Facts > opinions. Documentation beats conversation.
The box turns ANY TV into a Smart TV, but it can’t turn dumb opinionated people into smart informed people who debate using factual data and statements instead of opinions.
Everybody has opinions but my stand is based on facts. *wink* Adios.
P.S. While reading the MAPS commentary about ceasing U.S. operations, there’s a large advert for the Smart Stream box on that very page. Lol. So legit! *eye roll* 😀
Num num num, cookies. Off to get the milk!
The fact is that is your opinion. You have cited no facts or caselaw to back them up. And what was it that you said about opinions?
Go look in a mirror, buddy.
The ads here are Google ads. They will typically reflect some “areas of interest” for the individual user. So I have “Meet Asian Beauties”, “Fisher Investment” and “MLM software multi level” ads displayed. 🙂
K Chang, you’re one of those dudes who always has something to say like you’re some authority.
No case law can be looked up regarding Vstream because no laws have been broken by the company and that IS A FACT not an “opinion”.
We are discussing Vstream specifically not whatever else you want to throw in the mix. Show me a case, any case, in any jurisdiction that is specific to Vstream. I’ll wait.
Yah, M Norway, I got you. I realized afterwards it’s the cookies. Ha ha.
I never said I was some authority, and I have no idea how you came to that mistaken conclusion, and for you to harp on it just compounds your own mistake.
You can really say that without even defining WHICH laws? Such a blanket statement… Who died and appointed you God over all domain of mankind?
Moving the goalpost. You insist Vstream have broken no laws, then ask for proof of active lawsuits against VStream.
You don’t have to be actively prosecuted to have broken laws. Get your own criteria straight before comment further.
@Jaye
There is nothing legal about selling purpose-built piracy boxes.
The motive behind the purchase matters, just like it does in any other MLM.
In vStreamTV, that motive is piracy.
The old “if a regulator hasn’t shut us down we’re legal” argument? Come on chief…
Piracy is illegal. Selling piracy is illegal. Selling purpose-built piracy boxes is illegal.
Your particular company not facing regulatory action doesn’t negate the above. Which, by the way, is fact – not opinion.
The only opinions here are from you in an attempt to justify the sale of piracy.
@Jaye If you’ve got nothing further to contribute on the topic of selling piracy boxes, we’re done here. Leave the offtopic stuff for Facebook.
PS. You’re putting your faith in a bitter Zeek Rewards investor who then went on to scam people in AddWallet, another Ponzi scheme.
I’m not interested in the character attacks. My faith is not in anyone else but myself. I am not a rep for Vstream nor in MLM. I am a retired CEO of a video marketing firm.
Anything I said that made you think otherwise was non-clarity or an illustration on my part, (Rather be a shill than shrill, etc.)
Now, you are saying piracy instead of copyright infringement. In the U.S. there is a difference.
Piracy is unauthorized duplication that is sold in the gray market. I am aware of a case from a few years ago involving MGM, a company I worked for before starting my firm.
Copyright infringement is the use of works without permission, that infringes on exclusive rights, including the right to reproduce, distribute, or display, or perform protected works.
Piracy and copyright infringement are two separate events, not one and the same. Though copyright infringement certainly does feed piracy. Can we agree on this? The language of the law matters. So, you need to frame your argument in the proper context.
Congress is pushing the Justice Department to make providers who haven’t paid licensing fees, felons. Viewers would be guilty of a misdemeanor.
This hasn’t happened in my opinion, because companies like ROKU have paid licensing fees to content creators and entities that hold the copyright.
The question becomes in my mind then, have the Bremner’s paid licensing fees like Roku and a handful of others….Apple TV, Chromecast, Xbox etc.
As far as the Bremners go, I don’t know. I honestly have never met or spoken with them. I do know that at one time they used rebranded Smart Stream boxes, and I have spoken with that CEO as recently as last week.
If Vstream is streaming content that they haven’t paid licensing fees for (copyright infringement), then yes, stay far away. I will re-state though,their TOS strictly forbids piracy. Anyone can see their TOS.
MLM in general, I have found, is a very dirty industry. I haven’t participated in it because I don’t want to sully my reputation.
You do a great job breaking comp plans down, and elements of importance.
I think you need to clarify the distinction of your argument though. The true question should be, have the Bremner’s paid licensing fees or not to the copyright holders?
If I find I have mis-stated anything here, I will come back and correct it though I am sure you will have deleted it already.
Of course they haven’t. They’re just reselling piracy boxes like the rest of the MLM stream companies that popped up this year.
A one-time fee cannot cover ongoing license subscriptions.
if you read the review above, the first question oz has asked, is about the licensing:
P.S. What we are talking about in industry and legal terms are channel development and licensing agreements. I have read Roku’s. You can Google it and read the PDF.
Maybe we should Google the same query for VstreamTV and see what if any thing comes up. Or email support at their site. Or call corporate.
That would be the documentation basis for your review or argument. That is an airtight case.
Thank you Anjali. I must confess I have not read everything in detail. Merely skimmed recent posts.
That is my fault and I accept responsibility for it. I hope my last post has been more useful.
Oz, do we know for certain that they have not? Not defending them. Asking the question from a legal standpoint. Are you assuming it because nothing is stated on their web site?
Tell you what. I’ll ask for their channel development and licensing agreement directly and see what the outcome is.
Roku is very transparent in providing their info. Let’s see what Vstream does in that regard. Is that fair?
We know only that the information is not provided on the vStreamTV website. You’d think if they had it they’d flaunt it.
As you point out, other services that do pay licensing fees are transparent about it (precisely to fend off claims of selling piracy).
When vStreamTV launched there was no licensing information and the usual “zomg free pay per view, free movies, free everything!” advertising. It’s not hard to put two and two together.
Buy by all means, let us know what they say.
definitely! milk and cookies are usually an effective combination 🙂
The Supreme Court decision regarding Aereo is an interesting read. The court referred to exploiting a loophole. If no CDLA exists with VstreamTV, then some loophole must be being exploited, I am assuming.
Anyway, I’m in the process now of getting some answers. BBL.
So far, it seems we are both right. I said what they are doing is legal by existing laws. You (Oz) have spoken directly upon the character (ethics) of the company’s owners. Thus, I am sure Oz already knows this and has likely spoken on it.
The loophole, if there is no licensing agreement (which I haven’t yet verified), is that it is legal, because no content is downloaded and stored. You are allowed access to content that is already on the internet, and the software on the box streams it to you.
The ethics comes in regards to whether or not, who ever is providing the content on the net has a CDLA with the legal copyright holders.
So at this juncture, to be accurate, we must say “legal but unethical”. The laws haven’t caught up yet to the rapidly advancing technology.
So, Oz is correct ethically (important) and I have been accurate from a legal basis as the laws are NOW.
Haven’t found a CDLA for NuRev DBA VstreamTV, but they do have a no piracy clause in their TOS.
I’m still going to ring them up and ask for a CDLA, but it’s probably a waste of my time, as I’ll likely get the aforementioned loophole (not called a loophole) response from them.
An interesting process of discovery, so no, I wouldn’t do business with them from an ethics point of view.
Thank you, Oz. Please feel free to delete any previous uninformed comments (though you certainly don’t need my permission). lol.
I will come back with VS’s answer if you still want me to.
Except we’re talking about “online piracy”.
NOLINK://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/2/11/5400322/ufc-shuts-down-illegal-streaming-site-will-prosecute-mma-news
you are making the same mistake that others, on the several MLM ‘streaming box’ threads here, have made.
you question the legality of ‘streaming’. this is not relevant to this discussion of vstream selling streaming ‘devices’.
these devices are legal in themselves, it is HOW they are SOLD that makes them illegal.
if these devices are sold and advertised as capable of accessing copyrighted stuff illegally, the device seller becomes liable for copyright infringement.
this is called the ‘inducement doctrine’ which has solid case law behind it, via a US supreme court decision which first formulated this doctrine in 2005, in MGM studio Vs grokster.
in MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd, 2005, which is a US Supreme Court decision, the bench unanimously found that:
so, there is established caselaw which makes vstream boxes illegal.
Thank you K Chang. Obviously I need to get up to date about “online privacy”. My career was pretty old school era. All in all a good learning experience.
*Piracy — not a fan of auto fill either.
When all is said and done, I have to side with MPAA and RIAA in this mess.
MPAA is trying to revive SOPA against FB, twitter, Google, and Yahoo’s wishes, all of whom claim it is censorship. (I won’t be offended at all if Oz cleans up my mess. I’ve taken up a lot of space).
Thank you to all who contributed to my learning.
I agree.
I’ve researched this a bit myself and it seems that the unauthorized streaming of copyrighted content, e.g., movies, is not, in most cases, prohibited under current law in the European Union or North America.
In fact, I was unable to locate any jurisdiction where the unauthorized streaming of copyrighted material is illegal under current law.
The unauthorized downloading and use of copyrighted material or hosting of the same, for either streaming or download, is illegal in the U.S. and numerous other jurisdictions.
From an ethical perspective, the above-mentioned unauthorized streaming is … cheezy rationalizations aside … theft however, it doesn’t seem that the law has kept up with the technology, leaving what you described as a “loophole”.
However, as stated in the U.S. article at the link below:
bciptf.org/?p=1654
You also mentioned this in comment #231.
If the U.S. moves to make viewing of streamed unauthorized copyrighted material illegal, it reasonable to anticipate that other countries … who may also be already looking at this issue … will follow along.
But, let’s backtrack a bit.
I assume the reviews published on BehindMLM are targeted towards folks who are looking for a legitimate opportunity in MLM … as opposed to experienced pyramid/ponzi scheme players who are just looking to grab as much cash as they can before things collapse.
For folks seeking a legitimate MLM, The legality of the product being offered is obviously one consideration … and a consideration that needs to be viewed from an affiliate, rather than personal use, perspective.
However as previous commenters have mentioned, it isn’t the only consideration and in this instance the arguing back and forth over the legality of the product has, in my view, derailed discussion of the opportunity and compensation plan itself.
So for discussion purposes, let’s just accept that the product is legal and see what we’re left with.
I think Oz’s review and comments from people like K. Chang have covered most of the potential issues a prospective vStream affiliate should consider.
To begin with, vStream has more than one characteristic of a (definitely illegal) product based pyramid scheme. I think Oz and other commenters have covered these off.
Additionally, vStream affiliates will be competing in a market where, as K. Chang and others have pointed out, their product is anywhere from two to four times the price charged by competitors for near identical products on sites like eBay.
I think it’s fair to say that vStream is marketing its box on a “free media content”, etc. basis and many purchasers may assume everything is on the up and up with this.
These people might be somewhat perturbed if the “free content” disappears/becomes illegal to view at some point and/or they unexpectedly receive, whether in error or not, “cease and desist” type letters from their ISP or elsewhere.
This may be problematic for vStream affiliates who persuaded family, friends, co-workers to shell out fairly big bucks for the box on a “free content” basis … even more if they also hooked these people up with the scheme itself.
I mean, it’s one thing if I decide to buy a “fully loaded XMBC/Kodi” box for my own personal use and in full awareness of the ethical, and perhaps future legal, issues and am willing to accept any consequences my decision might have.
It’s quite another if I’m selling these to other folks who may not be aware of or are misled about these issues.
Based on reviews I’ve read for similar devices, another issue that could arise is that there may be high failure rates for the devices and/or functionality that may not meet customer expectations, e.g., wi-fi that doesn’t connect.
All in all, I can’t see an upside for anyone, other than veteran pyramid/ponzi players, from vStream but, I can see a lot of potential headaches for ethical affiliates.
Except of course for Bob, given the amount he’s charging for an OEM android smart box that can be purchased in bulk from sites like Alibaba for under $50.00 per unit … in some cases, well under.
I’ll just mention that in respect of your comments concerning licensing fees, I assume these are paid by the content provider, e.g., Netflix, rather than the “smart box” box maker, e.g., Roku.
In the case of vStream, the company isn’t, to my knowledge, hosting or providing the content. They’re just providing the “fully loaded” streaming device and software, e.g., Kodi with non-sanctioned addons, e.g., Genesis.
better look harder. people have been busted many times for making pirate satellite cards when they were in use.
Thank you DGR, and I’m aware of being able to buy these boxes from Alibaba and Aliexpress super cheap. I have a discount from Smart Stream if I want it. I don’t think I’m investing in any of it though until everything is sorted out, and that may be a long time, if ever.
Good point too about the box makers and who pays for the licensing rights.
I also have not found anything re: “legalities” outside of SOPA (which didn’t pass), the MGM case years back, and the Aereo case in the U.S.
In any case, way too problematic from many different angles, and I do care what kinds of people I associate with either directly or indirectly.
Even when something is “legal” ethics still matter. I can not as a former associate of MGM condone copyright infringement, nor do I condone it regardless of what the media is. Music, movies, books, whatever.
Whip, you are referencing satellite cards but this issue is the about the internet as a channel for content delivery.
They are not necessarily inclusive of one another re: legalities in the USA, but I really don’t know about that. That’s the sticky goo of wading through all of this stuff.
I find irony in the fact that the MPAA was founded in 1922 to combat censorship by the U.S. government; and now FB, Google, Yahoo, and twitter want to prevent the resurrection and passage of SOPA calling it censorship.
Fascinating….
P.S. I cannot support copyright infringement regardless of my prior involvement with MGM or not. It’s just wrong.
I have no reason to look harder because I’m not looking at joining vStream or any other MLM or have any interest in buying a “fully loaded XMBC/Kodi” android box or in trying to rationalize the use of software which has the primary purpose of streaming unauthorized copyrighted content.
In my view, vStream is a product based pyramid scheme.
Arguments about the legality of the product, unless supported by legislation, legal decisions, etc. that prove beyond doubt that unauthorized streaming of copyrighted content is illegal in a particular jurisdiction, just serve to deflect attention from what’s, in my view, the product based pyramid scheme reality that anyone, other than ponzi/pyramid players, needs to consider before becoming a vStream affiliate.
@Jaye
No harm no foul, we’re all here to learn.
REGARDING VSTREAM – while most comments are about the legalities and the structure of this MLM operation – I wish to comment on the box itself! IT IS HORRIBLE~
I have hooked it up and initially there were a few sections with various programming – one was Premium and noted as ‘trial’ – that section disappeared in a matter of hours (not days).
Probably 98% of the programming is for the Asian market (this box is made in China after all) – there is tons of programming for other languages, but just about NOTHING for the US market – I can’t access a single network or cable station – save for an ABC setup that is some guy interviewing celebs.
All the good cable broadcasting is not available without subscriptions up to $70 per year for each of them!
There is essentially NOTHING worth watching, no news (oh there is something on one channel that is US news from many weeks ago, NOTHING current.
I don’t know about the networking part of this because I despise MLM operations, and it could be a total scam, but the box is worthless, especially given it costs 5 times similar boxes.
I am guessing that one must have a router of some sort, and then you will be paying for what you want to view – all of this is a contradiction to what the company website states – thus what they have said is a LIE.
For pennies on t heir dollars you can get a similar device like Roku. But there is no valid streaming without paying – and then there is legality of this vstream outfit – they could be brought down by any number of possibilities.
BUT BOTTOM LINE THIS DEVICE IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY, AND MAY NOT BE WORTH A DIME AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.
So… My neighbor introduced this to me this morning. I just bought ROKU last week. He says “get your money back!” LOL!
Well my plan is to wait till Sunday and see if I can get all the Football and Basketball games I want to watch. If so, then I AM IN!
Why? Cuz the price of this tech is cheaper than Sunday Ticket and NBA Pass. Nuff said!
Haters can hate but I’d rather see my football and appreciate the hustle.
Because you don’t have a problem pirating copyrighted content.
Hello KChang and OZ! It’s been years since I have chatted with you guys.
I have been a fan of you guys for a long time now. I didn’t like U guys in the beginning because I didn’t understand you both. Now that I have grown to know U through your blogs, I like U guys even more.
You have saved me a lot of trouble since TVI Express where the CEO finally got arrested and Zeek Rewards in which that CEO got arrested. So I naturally had to come and check to see what U had on VStreamTV powered by NXR Global.
I was reading SparklePlenty27 post and saw that he/she was displeased with the VStreamTV Media Center. If he/she needs any help with that box, I’ll be more than happy to solve the problem.
He/she probably didn’t sign up as a free member so they can get updated emails from the Company concerning the VStream. There is also a very busy forum to help assist them too. That info is always scrolling across the television.
I joined this Company when it soft launched it’s media center back in Feb. of 2015. I own 3 VStream media centers and have had no problem with them. I also have the newest version of the VStream called the VSII. All work fine.
I have also sold approx 30 media centers and my customers are all very pleased and excited with their media centers. I haven’t had a cable bill in 7 months now a savings of approx $875.00.
I work personally with all 30 of my customers making sure that they enjoy the use of their media centers. I sure wish K Chang would stop calling us idiots for buying products with our own money.
$600 for 3 boxes and I am already profitable, not to mention, cable free. 1000’s of channels to watch and almost any thing I want to watch including music of all kinds.
The Company also maintains 24 hours updates on all their media centers.
I see you have done research on the Bremner family and yes, Blair is the son of Bob Bremner. He is the VP of Marketing and Bob is the CEO.
I see that you finally found the address and as U can see it is a working address. This is their Headquarters located only 5 minutes from where the NASCAR race is held here in Richmond, VA.
The comp plan is easy as far as I can see. You can become a free member and sell the VStreamTV media centers and make a $200 commission which is paid immediately to your checking or savings account.
You do not have to buy the VStreamTV media center in order to market the product. You can also upgrade if you like to Pro Member. Upgrading is not required to market the VStream media center, but it is required if you want to receive the travel perks package, reduced pricing on nutritional products and VStream discount price.
Also OZ and K Chang, if U done your research, U would also note that NXR Global flagship products is in the nutritional field along savings in travel, restaurants, stores, etc.
All is included in the $49.95 Pro Members fee. Since October of 2015, the comp plan has now been changed. Pro Membership is now $68,50/mo autoship with a new VStream media center every 6 months (free shipping included). The $49.95 Pro Members perk is included.
Since reading a lot of OZ and K Chang investigative post, and U guys do a fantastic job, former investigator myself, You have impressed me immensely. I believe NXR Global have a good comp plan. Simple and easy to understand.
So I’ll leave U guys to dissect my post and I’ll humble myself to some of your suggestions.
Thank OZ and K Chang for all U guys do to keep us idiots (lol) out of trouble. Much success to U guys and I’ll continue to read your investigated post.
Oh! By the way, thanks for your imput on MWR Life. I was thinking about getting involved since one of my friends was showing me his impressive commission to get me to join.
Have a fantastic day!
Hi 3rd Eye!
IPTV Stalker has the NFL Football ticket and NBA Pass along with Hockey already on it. Hope U can get it. That add-on has over 891 channels on it.
Hey Tony, welcome back and thanks for the support.
If you’ve got no problems with theft and profiting from it, hey… go nuts.
Just curious if it was possible to sell this product without getting into a pyramid scheme.
Not through vStream TV. You sign up as an affiliate you have access to the compensation plan.
You might not personally recruit but you’re still part of it as an affiliate.
Hi Aleks! The answer is, first, This Company is not a pyramid scheme. The answer to your main question is yes. You can sell this product without having to a part of the compensation plan. You come in as a free member and you can sell all you want.
Now Oz, let’s get this straight, No one can become a part of the compensation plan unless they become a Pro member.
The compensation plan has been revised/changed. You can come in as a totally free member and market the VStream Media Center and create immediate income.
Free members do not have to sponsor anyone. Have a great day!
Oh dear, you’re really not very good at this whole “pyramid scheme” denial thing, are you ???
If it was as easy as having a handful of so called “free members” members to avoid pyramid scheme laws, there wouldn’t be any pyramid scheme prosecutions, would there ??
From a potential
victimmembers’ point of view, if members CAN or DO make the bulk of their income from recruitment, potential new members should avoid the business like the plague.1) Pyramid / endless chain recruitment schemes are illegal
2) The reason they ARE illegal is pyramid / endless chain recruitment schemes are guaranteed to collapse soon after recruitment numbers drop, resulting in many / most participants losing their money.
And if paid members outnumber the free members… then free members don’t mean much, do they?
@Tony
That’s access to the compensation plan which means free or not, you’re an affiliate.
Even if it’s single-level commissions, all that means is the MLM side of the business is still tied up in being a Pro member.
@ littleroundman
1) Pyramid / endless chain recruitment schemes are illegal
Then what you are telling everyone that all MLM businesses are illegal and they shouldn’t join them. Right?
What I’m pointing out is, if, for whatever reason, someone decides to take the risk of joining an illegal pyramid scheme,a second factor they need to consider is, in practical terms, they have a 90plus percent chance of losing their money anyway, purely based on mathematics.
Strawman argument / fallacy of composition. Pyramid schemes often disguise themselves as MLMs, but not all MLMs are pyramid schemes.
The difference is what you got paid on… actually selling stuff, or by recruiting people.
False. Chain recruitment is illegal, which is all littleroundman said.