Xocai Norway member Association threatens critics
These days most of the lawsuits we hear about in the MLM industry are from former members suing a company they used to belong to, or government agencies bringing cases against a particular MLM company that was doing something they shouldn’t.
Despite the constant legal threats, death threats, legal action, insults and accusations that those of us who attempt to cover the MLM industry endure to provide the general public with reliable and up to date information, thankfully we’re for the most part left alone to get on with what we do.
Unfortunately however this isn’t always the case and today we look at one such recent example involving Norwegian Xocai members and a local blogger who dared to analyse and raise concerns about the business.
Xocai, for those unfamiliar with the company, is based in the US and was founded back in 2005 by mother and son duo Jeanette and Andrew Brooks. Xocai are a division of parent company ‘MXI Corp’ and, using a MLM business model, market what they call “healthy chocolate” to the world (for more info on Xocai, see the BehindMLM Xocai review).
In Norway, Xocai’s healthy chocolate is marketed as being
- beneficial for diabetics
- able to strengthen the immune system
- help against fatigue and provide extra energy
- improve memory and concentration
- prevent various forms of cancer, heart disease and blood clots
- balance glucose levels
- prevent skin diseases (eg. psoriasis)
- improve digestion
- help against osteoporosis and calcium deficiency
- fight off depression
- prevent visible signs of early ageing
- stabilise blood pressure
- prevent infections
A tall order I’m sure you’ll agree for a mere bar of chocolate – healthy or not.
One particular Norwegian blogger, going by the name of “Morten”, took objection to the manner in which Xocai was being advertised in Norway and wrote a series of blog posts critical of the way Xocai was being marketed locally.
These articles were published in 2010 and, as is often the case here on BehindMLM a lengthy discussion on the topics Morten covered in his analysis followed.
After a while the discussions organically tapered off with the original article serving as a beacon of third-party analysis for those conducting their due diligence on Xocai in Norway.
Then, coimpletely out of the blue, in April of this year the Norwegian chapter of Xocai affiliates, under the banner of the organisation ‘Sjokoservice Norge’, sent Morten the following email:
Hello,
As an association for over 9 000 Norwegian Xoçai-members, we have over the last year received over a hundred complaints from our members concerning your blog.
Most of our members seem to think enough is enough when it comes to your defamatory claims about the product and brand name Xoçai, the company MXI Corp. and the representatives of the company – thus everything you have written on your blog for some time now has been sent to the company’s lawyers in the USA – where these are currently preparing a lawsuit on the grounds of your untrue claims that have damaged the brand name and product Xoçai, the company MXI Corp. in the USA and the company’s representatives.
From the signals we have received it will be a seven digit lawsuit, and that’s not in Norwegian «kroner».
This is because the company now wishes to make an example once and for all, and such create precedence for other countries in Scandinavia and Europe.
We have also been asked on numerous occasions to account for your blog and person on our website, which we now have done on the grounds of information sent by our members.
You can read more on: sjokoservice.no.
We are of course aware that the company [company name removed] doesn’t have any responsibility for your blog – but as it can be documented that a lot of your activity on the blogpage has been during work hours, we assume it is with your employer’s [company name removed] knowledge and blessing in accordance with your terms of employment.
In the light of your cynical activities it must be admitted that this isn’t the best advertisement for the company [company name removed] and your co-workers, neither now nor when the process starts.
Best regards,
Foreningen Sjokoservice Norge
Quite obviously furious that someone dared critically analyse Xocai and its product, Sjokoservice Norge, through MXI Corp in the US, seemingly wanted to “make an example” out of Morten to discourage other analysts and commentators from looking too closely into what Xocai’s Norwegian members were getting up to.
The threats didn’t just stop there though, Sjokoservice Norge then took it one step further and published an open letter on their association’s official website accusing Morten of making ‘untrue, undocumented and defamatory claims‘ and reiterated the claim that ‘all his untrue statements and defamatory claims have now been sent to the company’s lawyers in the USA to initiate a lawsuit‘.
The open letter from Sjokoservice Norge included a photo of Morten, information on the company he works for, his private phone number, home address, email addresses and encouragement for readers to harass Morten using the information Sjokoservice Norge had supplied.
As is commonly the case with companies and individuals that threaten lawsuits against those who participate in analysis of the MLM industry, the letter made no mention of what exactly was “untrue, undocumented and defamatory“, but rather merely sought to punish Morten for expressing his views.
Rather then state what was factually incorrect about Morten’s article and analysis, Sjokoservice Norge used the flimsy (and sadly common) dismissive argument that
[Morten] employed by [anonymous company] has for some time played a cynical, unethical and immoral game to promote his own website (blog) to earn money.
An amusing irony at best, given that MLM companies and their affiliates’ primary objective is to make money themselves, and at worse a painfully thin strawman defense, in that it fails to even remotely address the concerns and valid points raised.
Cmon guys, if you want to run around the internet blindly claiming that Xocai chocolate “prevents cancer” (amongst other things), sooner or later someone is bound to call you out on it.
Had that of been the end of it, even at this point it’s all too easy to wholly condemn the actions of Sjokoservice Norge undertook on behalf of the alleged 9,000 Norwegian Xocai members they represent.
By all means refute the analysis and claims made, as with BehindMLM open channels of communication are always made available via blogging platforms so it’s not like this isn’t possible. But extending far beyond that, the intention of Sjokoservice Norge goes clearly beyond the supposed defense of Xocai and it’s painfully obvious they saw fit to attempt to make an example of Morten on their own.
The day after the Sjokoservice Norge letter went up on their website, the association sent Morten yet another email:
Hi,
As the association for Norwegian Xoçai members we have over the last year received hundreds of complaints concerning your blog.
Most of our members seem to think enough is enough when it comes to you defaming claims about the product and brand name Xoçai, the company MXI Corp. and the representatives of the company, where everything that has been written on your blog for some time has been sent to the company’s lawyers in the USA.
We have also been asked on numerous occasions to account for your blog and person on our website, which we now have done on the grounds of information sent by our members.
You can read more on: sjokoservice.no
The last weeks the organization has received several e-mails from Norwegian Xoçai members, with the following attachments.
From what we’ve been told this information is being sent out to ca. 9000 members in Norway alone, as well as your co-workers at [anonymous].
It’s obvious someone has put a lot of effort in gathering this data. Who is responsible, and why information concerning your family and home address has been sent out to our members all around Norway is something on which we don’t wish to speculate, but in the light of the information we have received we assume the probability of you receiving quite a few inquiries from Norwegian Xoçai members is high.
Best regards
Foreningen Sjokoservice Norge
In a nutshell?
We can’t disprove or adequately address your valid points and concerns, so instead we’re just going to make your life difficult to discourage others from asking too many questions.
The attachments referenced in the email included
- detailed directions to Morten’s house
- photos and personal information of Morten’s parents, siblings and wife (occupations, date of birth and addresses)
- Google maps photos of Morten’s house
If you read between the lines Sjokoservice Norge are quite openly asserting that Morten can expect visits and confrontation from Xocai’s Norwegian members after actively distributing the information to them.
Sjokoservice Norge, who charge Norwegian Xocai members $57 USD a year for membership, is headed up by Chairman Terje Ragnar Babsvik and spokesperson Roger Meyer. As I understand it, neither of these men (or anyone from Sjokoservice Norge) contacted Morten in an official capacity before they made legal threats and published personal information on the organisation’s website.
Babsvik is credited as being a Xocai ‘Double Diamond Executive’ and has been credited at a company conference as being ‘the most successful (Xocai) distributor outside the U.S..‘
Despite the open-ended threats made against Morten, his family and his co-workers, seeing as Sjokoservice Norge had failed to stipulate what exactly it was they believed was ‘untrue, undocumented and defamatory’ Morten responded by extending Sjokoservice an olive-branch, giving them a chance to clarify their concerns:
Hi,
I refer to the e-mail sent to [anonymous]@[anonymous].no at 14:31 today, as cited below.
Thank you for the feedback. If you can specify and document which claims you consider incorrect on my website I will of course correct these.
I want the information I publish to be as correct as possible so people who look for information on the subjects I write about will get as correct as possible picture of the situation.
I invited you to such a dialogue when I published the article. I quote from the blogpost:
“If you have information which could contribute to clarify some of these points I would appreciate you leaving a comment.”
I would appreciate it if you could provide the name and telephone number of a representative of your association, so I can contact this person to discuss the case more closely.
Not surprisingly, the response Morten received from Sjokoservice Norge failed to make note of a single example,
I refer to your email of April 23rd.
As the association for representatives in Norway we take note of your wish to publish as correct as possible information on your blog. This is, however, too late, as the brand name Xoçai already is done as a result of untrue and defamatory claims.
That you invited to a dialogue when publishing the article is of no consequence, since the company behind the brand Xoçai in the USA never received such.
In addition you have the cheek to attempt to play the ball over to us by writing “If you can specify and document which claims you consider incorrect on my website I will of course correct these.”
When untrue and defamatory claims about the brand Xoçai, the company MXI corp. and the representatives of the company are put forth it is not our responsibility to disprove this, but you as the person responsible for and editor of the blog who has to document the defamatory claims presented.
Almost predictably, at the heart of Sjokoservice Norge’s actions is not something that can simply be backed up with fact, but rather the hope that the mere act of threats against the author will be enough to discredit the information itself.
We can see no reason for further controversy on this subject, as your untrue statements and libelous claims have been sent to the company’s lawyers in the USA to start proceedings.
It can still be said that after we published information on your blog and person on our website we receive feedback from our members daily.
In a closed group on Facebook your blog and person is currently the subject of heated discussion, where creative ideas are being put forth to stop your attack on the product Xoçai, the company MXI Corp. and the representatives of the company – once and for all.
The Xoçai-representatives in Norway are in principle a pleasant and polite group of adults, but now most of them fell enough is enough, and many are becoming really cranky.
Some of the posts on Facebook and the e-mails we receive daily are so angry and crass that we have to do our utmost to calm their tempers.
We have received many suggestions; from warning against your blog and person in all social media and blogs, to contacting newspapers. We can imagine the title: “Bloggers puts forth false claims in cynical ploy to make money on advertisements”.
[Morten] and the blog [anonymous].no will be used as examples in the article. Some of our members work within the media and have already found interest for this angle.
Some also wish to gather a group of people to visit you at [place of residence] to discuss your blog face to face. We have of course discouraged such action, but it’s out of our hands.
In Norway publishing the personal contact details of someone, their family and the place of their employment and encouraging your organisations members to contact these people apparently constitutes the discouragement of such actions Sjokoservice Norge’s member wished to undertake, as detailed above.
In the light of the above, and when the case now is with the company’s lawyers, we can see no reason to discuss the case over telephone. However, 9000 Norwegian representatives have some pull within the company MXI corp. in the USA.
A suggestion could be that you remove all mention of the product Xoçai, the company MXI corp. and the representatives of the company from your blog.
If you agree to such a solution we will remove what is written about you on our webpages, as well as asking our 9000 Norwegian members to bury the hatchet.
In addition to this we will do our utmost to influence our parent company MXI corp. in the USA, so they might put the case on ice since the case seems to have been resolved.
We remain still – the choice is yours.
Best regards
Foreningen Sjokoservice Norge
And there in the above paragraphs you have the crux of the matter. Someone analysed and wrote a critical analysis of Xocai in Norway. A few years later the association representing Xocai associates in Norway claimed the author was making ‘untrue statements and defamatory claims’ and set about publishing his personal information, that of his family and the company he worked for. Despite admitting that their members have huge tempers and are “angry and crass”, they also openly encouraged said members to contact said person using the information they provided.
After being approached in a cool and calm manner to clarify what exactly it was they found untrue and defamatory in Morten’s analysis, they then expressed no interest in doing so.
Instead, they demanded that the information simply be taken down or that the author face threats of an escalation of their vendetta against him via media outlets, pending legal action from the US division of Xocai and MXI Corp and whatever actions their “angry and crass” members saw fit to conduct.
Welcome to the world of what goes on behind the scenes between the MLM industry and those that don’t just blindly sing the praises of the companies that inhabit it.
Sadly, in this particular instance the abhorrent conduct of Sjokoservice Norge that extended well beyond the traditional dialogue boundaries between critical analysis and the MLM industry won out.
After consulting with lawyers of the company Morten worked for, it was decided that the best course of action was to remove the two articles Morten had written back in 2010.
After Morten informed Sjokoservice that their demands had been met, they then proceeded to wash their hands of any involvement in the entire incident:
When it comes to your comment in the e-mail of April 27th where you request we don’t send you, your family or your employer any threats – we wish to refute this.
We have never sent you, your family or your employer any threats, but informed you of the information we have received form several of our members.
As an association we cannot take responsibility for what individuals might do, since this is out of our control.
What certain violated individuals might do as a counter to your harassment of the MLM-business, independently of which MLM-company the might be involved with, is merely hypothetical and something we can’t take responsibility for.
When you have chosen to attack the MLM-business you must expect many annoyed people who have MLM as a living feeling violated.
Supposedly, these are the conditions those of us who cover the MLM industry and dare to raise concerns against and conduct analysis of MLM companies, their business models and members are expected to endure.
Following Sjokoservice Norge’s threats and conduct being made public last week, Chairman Terje Babsvik and his brother Jon-Atle Babsvik (closely involved in the running of SjokoService Norje) have publicly denied any knowledge of the threats made against Morten by Sjokoservice Norge.
Sjokoservice Norge’s official spokesperson, Roger Meyer, who personally went on to threaten another blogger who dared write an article exposing Sjokoservice Norge’s conduct, has since gone into hiding on vacation and “is impossible to get a hold of”.
To date not one of the claims and concerns raised by Morten about Xocai’s healthy chocolate in Norway has been refuted and/or disproven in any official capacity by Sjokoservice Norge, Xocai or MXI Corp.
…apparently it still prevents cancer.
Further reading:
– “Xocai – the nasty tale of a Norwegian chocolate mafia” (Tjomlid.com, 28th June, 2012). Note that the author of this article, Gunnar Roland Tjomlid, has since had legal threats made against him by Sjokoservice Norge for daring to publish the information, despite reviewing and confirming it is correct in its entirety.
-“Xocai is not okay! Legal threat against skeptical critic in Norway” (Doubtful News, sourced June 27th 2012, 404 as of February 15th, 2018)
-“Bloggers were threatened with million lawsuit after having blogged about the “Healthy Chocolate”” (Dagbladet, June 27th 2012)
-“Chocolate bosses delete their tracks” (f-b.no, June 29th 2012)
Time to get the EFF involved… I hope they have a Norwegian or at least an European chapter?
Pfft, how pathetic and amateurish are they to respond in that way, like babies. I guess it just adds fuel for Morton (and others) to continue on the noble quest for the truth. Not very bright xocai!
But still it’s these type of communists that could do something silly so take care Morten.
The 2 articles mentioned 8 specific websites belonging to Xocai distributors, and some of them received more negative focus than others.
* mereliv.no (screenshot from website)
* sjokosjokk.no
* sjokoladenmin.no
* helsekakao.no (main example in one of the articles)
* helsesjokolade.net
* energisjokolade.com
* baakvaag.net
* sjokolade4you.no
THE REAL REASON?But the real reason for the threats seems to be about negative feedback from potential customers/distributors. The articles climbed to positions close to #1 on the Google search-hits after a while, overshadowing Xocai’s own marketing in that local market.
The original annoying blog has now been removed, but instead it popped up several others. The original problem simply exploded into several others, more serious problems — they even got an article from the main TV-station in Norway (NRK, translated to “Norwegian Broadcasting”), the most major of two nationwide TV-stations in Norway. “Nationwide” means 80% or more.
Google translated article from NRK.NO.
Original article in Norwegian.
TOP OF THE FOODCHAIN?As far as I can see, Terje Ragnar Babsvik seems to be the local organizer in Norway, the one who has the right to do something without asking for permissions, the one who has the right to mess things up and make a local problem become more global. 🙂
He runs Sjokoservice Norge (sjokoservice.no) as the chairman of the board, a non-profit association for the Xocai distributors in Norway. He also runs Chico Choco EU Ltd., registered in the UK and Norway (according to information on a blog).
I have only had time to look briefly into this story, so I haven’t done any independent research here. The sources I have used are the different blogs that popped up when I searched “Xocai” from Norway.
From some local news in Norway:
Adam Paul Green has also been involved in some internet-actions against the new blogger, the one who republished the story.
At least Adam Paul Green seems to be a little smarter than “the chocolate mafia” in Norway. Using a couple of hours to remove something after a complaint is respectable enough. People can’t expect more than that.
The headline of the newspaper story is “Chocolate bosses deletes their tracks”.
I posted links to this and the Norwegian article on Reddit, but haven’t gained much traction.
Now the “chocolate mafia” has answered.
One sentence is interesting:
Well, earlier this year I met a Xocai-seller and he claimed that Xocai cured psoriasis, and that there were plenty of scientific studies that supported this claim.
When asking for a copy of or a link to these studies, he contacted Jan-Vidar Pedersen in Sjokoservice, and instead of reproving him for making such a claim, he provided this to help:
That page ends with the following:
The website helsesjokolade belongs to Jan-Vidar Pedersen in Sjokoservice. Recently he removed the link to this and about 20 similar pages from the navigation meny of his site. Strange…
American or Norwegian, these Xocai members sure sound like a slimy bunch don’t they.
I want to sincerely thank Behindmlm.com for bringing this unfortunate story to light; this is NOT the first such incident that Behindmlm.com has reported on — and it certainly will NOT be the last.
Sadly, it is an often repeated story of how ONE individuals lack of good judgment (at a given time) can affect an entire communities positive reputation, good deeds and purpose. Comprehending who really benefits from these types of stories is obvious.
Regardless, the perception of outsiders matters to most of us. Hopefully, the intelligent and insightful readers of Behindmlm.com can do as they normally have done (ergo: See the bigger picture for what this is truly about ALL while striving to understand the motivations of what makes someone go rogue in this manner).
~CLICK HERE for the latest UPDATE
(from Sjokoservice.no) ENGLISH
http://adampaulgreen.com/sjokoservice-no-english-version-update/
~CLICK HERE for the latest UPDATE
(from Sjokoservice.no) NORWEGIAN
http://adampaulgreen.com/sjokoservice-no-norewegian-report-update/
Well of course they do. Morten’s analysis of Xocai in Norway was taken down after Sjokoservice Norge’s blackmail threats hit home. They made all sorts of accusations yet to date failed to challenge or refute any of Morten’s claims.
Instead all they’ve done is publish the standard marketing spiel rubbish after they’ve made threats against Morten, his co-workers and his family.
Disgraceful and a poor reflection on Xocai and MXI Corp. Moreso when you consider to date not one Xocai affiliate has been held accountable for this nonsense.
Some of this crap was published on the Sjokoservice Norge website itself, like they don’t know who’s responsible. Please.
Is this ‘one individual‘ still with the company? Or is this sort of conduct permissable under their contract with MXI Corp in the US?
Yeah, right. Maybe you can reveal the noble purpose behind posting the bloggers name together with a bunch of picture ads) without asking for his permission)?
Sorry, but this is not about one person unintentionally doing a mistake. It seems more to be a company and a system founded on lies, illusions and cynical purposes.
As mentioned, Jan-Vidar Pedersen in Sjokoservice has published more than 20 stories about people that claim to be cured from a long list of spesific diseases – just by eating the Xocai chocolate. Why did he recently remove the links to these pages from his navigation menu? And why does he encourage other distributors to make such illegal claims?
There are plenty of Norwegian web pages with advertisements for Xocai. So far I havn’t found one not breaking the new EU regulations about health claims.
I credited you for being smarter than “the chocolate mafia”, because you removed the offending material within reasonable time when you received a complaint. Instead of being involved in something that is partly outside your reach.
“ONE individual’s lack of good judgment”?
You probably mean Roger Meyer, Terje Ragnar Babsvik or Jan-Vidar Pedersen? They all seems to fit within the profile.
* Roger Meyer is the official contact in Sjokoservice Norge
* Jan-Vidar Pedersen is the legal contact
* Terje Ragnar Babsvik is the Chairman of the Board
All 3 of them seems to be on top of the Xocai network in Norway, and leaders for the Xocai member association there.
THE ORIGINAL ARTICLES
The two critical articles about Xocai was published in 2010, and the blogger had email-contact with Roger Meyer and Jan-Vidar Pedersen before/after the articles were published. The two authors did also answer questions in the comment threads related to the articles. The comment thread gradually died out after some time.
Article #1 (republished in another blog):
30 points you should check before you start as a Xocai distributor Google translated
Article #2 (republished in another blog):
Xocai, a healthy chocolate? Google translated
There IS some “damaging information” there, in some important questions about the patent, the processing method, the ingredients and similar topics.
Note:
The Google translation is understanable in most parts, but heavy misleading when it comes to prices and price comparing, because it will replace NOK randomly with USD $ or GBP £. So “a monthly cost of $900” means “a monthly cost of $150”, and “a daily cost of £30” means alot less (around $5 or so).
I can clearly see WHY these two articles have become more and more annoying in the 1.5-2 years before they were removed, when they gradually climbed the search hits. They are asking critical questions about something that is the main core of Xocai’s sales arguments, the arguments used by the distributors for WHY consumers should buy Xocai instead of other dark chocolate (or even WHY consumers should buy chocolate at all on a regular basis).
And someone in Sjokoservice Norge has obviously found these two articles so harmful and so threatening to the business that he decided to “do something” to get rid of them?
Or if the emails sent out from Sokoservice Norge were anything to go by, they had enough members fuming and stamping their feet to warrant officially sanctioned action at an association level.
I don’t think that was exactly what was happening, but you are very close to it. You can probably find something similar in the WAZZUB-thread.
1. One of the distributors have tried to recruit the wrong customer.
2. the potential customer searches the internet to find logical reasons to avoid it, and finds the two articles with lots of ammunition.
3. the potential customer fires the ammunition against the distributor, and tells him where he have found it.
4. the distributor tells about the problem to the management
When this pattern has been repeated over and over again, then someone in the management will decide to “do something” about it, to solve the problem as he sees it. And what he clearly can see is the two negative articles under point 2, so he won’t even bother to check point 1, 3 and 4 (definitely NOT the last point).
The problem has to be solved under point 1, 3 and 4, not under point 2. There will always be some negative information about a product or an opportunity, and trying to “do something” about it will only make the problem become worse if you’re acting in an area outside your own control.
Point 1:
The distributors will need training in how to detect whether a customer is the right type, or will potentially become a problem. Why on earth will someone have a problem in their downline? The sales methods used clearly fails on some people.
Point 3 and 4:
The distributors will need training in how to handle the problems, when the training under point 1 has failed. But that kind of training will have to start with the management, so they can act as a backup. You can’t expect distributors to become qualified when the management isn’t.
I have tried to analyse this from a different viewpoint than the “Chocolate Mafia”, using a method to analyse the points for “inside their own control” and “outside their own control”.
Point 2 is the one that is most outside their own control. You can’t act as a decision maker on the internet, on other people’s websites, unless your decision is really close to the other person’s own decisions. Here we can clearly SEE IT too, the unexpected effects when people tries to solve something from the wrong direction.
Point 1, 3 and 4 is directly under their own control. The problem has to be identified within these 3 points, before someone decides to “do something” to solve it. The main problem here can be found under point 4, the management.
It seems like the “Chocolate Mafia” has been able to identify a part of the problem — “disreputable participants”, “a few rogue players” and “less-than-serious operators”.
Quoted from the press release, link found in the post by Adam Green:
Instead of focusing on the 9000 members, they would have made it easier if they had analysed “Which one of them has the same email-address as us?” or “Which one of them will send a letter like that from our email-address, and sign it with Sjokoservice Norge?”.
The few rogue players may be much closer than they think, and now they finally have a chance to “do something” with that problem.
I’ll guess he’s trying to say something like “I feel deeply wounded and defamed about the unfair treatment from the world in general, and from Norwegian bloggers and reporters in particular. No one seems to understand me.
I will now close my eyes and focus on myself and my own health, and hope the problem will disappear by itself. I will certainly NOT do anything to solve it.”
The reason for cutting some corners here was because I got the same feeling I have got from several leadership calls, where the leader talk and talk and talk forever without coming to the point.
I had the feeling of someone trying to drown me in propaganda, so I had completely lost interest before I came halfway through the press release.
The problem is Xocai Norway is not asking the right questions
1) Are we marketing to the right people?
Clearly, they are not, because they marketed to people who ask questions, and do their own research
2) Are we dealing with the problem the right way?
When someone tells you that you have a problem, shooting the bearer of bad news does NOT solve the problem. Same thing is happening here: silencing the website pointing out problems in your operation does NOT solve the problems.
3) Now that it’s a PR nightmare, what do we do?
Blaming “rogue ops” is a common tactic, but it won’t fly, as it was sent and received MULTIPLE TIMES. whoever sent the threat and composed the response to response is highly placed enough to do this, and if the leaders claim they don’t know who did it or care then they are just idiots.
Does Xocai have a code of ethics that affiliates need to adhere to? Has code of ethics been violated? And what are the penalties, if any?
This sounds to me like a couple of guys just puffing their chests. Has the blogger tried the chocolate? Did the other guy really say what he claims? I think we all need to make up our own minds.
Why do you need to try the chocolate to analyse how Xocai is marketed and the claims being made by affiliates?
As for Sjokoservice’s claims, they aren’t refuting the information published on their website nor the email communications they sent out. Asking whether or not they actually did either seems a bit silly with that in mind.
Who’s the other guy? The press release was from Terje Ragnar Babsvik, Chairman of the Board in Sjokoservice Norge, posted in translated version on Adam Green’s website.
“Has the blogger tried the chocolate?” The statistical probability is relatively low, between 0.2% and 1.0%. Maybe he has and maybe he hasn’t, but who cares anyway? There’s several bloggers involved in this story, so it’s difficult to guess which “the blogger” you mean. But most of them didn’t seem to be very interested in the chocolate.
One problem here is that he doesn’t identify WHERE those “rogue players” are, whether they are higher up in the system or lower than him, or on the same level. So when I try to identify them from top to bottom in the organization, too many of them may potentially fit within the profile of being “less-than-serious operators”.
It’s possible to GUESS that the problem is localised to Norway from some of his statements:
So the “mafia-methods” are probably only indirectly connected to the company in the U.S., while the main problem can be found within the organisation in Norway, if I have guessed right. He could have said that directly in the press release.
The organisation in Norway seems to make the situation worse, e.g. in being vague when they should have been clear and direct, and in using sales methods when they should have used damage control methods.
The guy literally tries to drown his audience in propaganda where he should be absolutely clear and factual. He doesn’t even touch the main problem, except for some vague statements about “rogue players”. “We feel deeply wounded” has got more attention than the main problem.
It’s a bit more than that. It’s edging dangerously close to cyberbullying, a lot like Anti-Abortion activists publishing details about workers of a clinic, where they live, their photo, what car they drive, etc.
Irrelevant. Chocolate does not cure anything (except maybe “craving for chocolate”)
You’re welcome to check the website yourself, if you doubt the quotes.
THAT part, I agree, but remember, “trust, but verify”. (immortal words of Ronald Reagan).
To clarify something here:
“Mafia” and “Mafia methods” derives from how this case has been presented in Norwegian blogs and online newspapers, including mainstream media. It relates mostly to this part of the emails, but also to the methods in general:
He directs the responsibility for collecting the matherial downwards in the organisation to anonymous “Norwegian Xocai members”.
A problem with this is that he partly throws some of the responsibility over to the mother organisation, the MXI Corp. in the U.S., in that the members are independent business owners and reports to MXI Corp. rather than to Sjokoservice Norge.
Normally I would have expected some kind of local leadership when a company introduces itself into a market, but the guys at Sjokoservice Norge doesn’t seem to have that function at all, neither in their roles in Sjokoservice Norge nor in their roles as Xocai distributors.
They clearly states the problem is outside their own control, and dircts the responsibility upwards and downwards in the MXI Corp. organisation:
So in reality, this seems more to be an organisational problem in the MXI Corp. rather than a local problem in Norway. Obviously they can’t have any local leadership levels in place, able to handle situations like this one.
The ones they have in place tries to direct the responsibility away from themselves. But trying to direct the responsibility downwards will also direct it upwards, to MXI Corp. itself and it’s organisational structure.
One of the problems here seems to be a vague leadership structure, where no one in the local organisation seems to know how to handle the case. The email was sent to 9000 distributors, and none of them was able to handle it in a proper way.
In the average population, at least 5% would have responded to the situation if they involuntarily had been included in a threat. A normal reaction could have been “Don’t include me in that threat, I’ll prefer to do my business in other ways than that”.
I haven’t checked all the facts yet, but a temporarily conclusion points in the direction of organisational problems in the MXI Corp. itself, where leaders on all levels tries to push the responsibility downwards in the organisation and to something outside their own control.
The situation in Norway have only made the problem become visible, but it’s not the problem itself.
Again, I think this is getting blow out of proportion and I am still not sure why. I have read all of the articles on both sides, with all of the names listed.
Does someone have something to gain by all of this? Is this helping anything?
MXI Corp. should probably have some use of it, as a method for learning from mistakes and how to find better methods next time.
The two original articles wasn’t much of a problem, before some people decided “to handle the problem” in their own way 2 years after the articles first were published.
There will always be some negative info popping up when people do their own research on the internet. But KNOWN negative info is usually not a problem. The people who are interested in the chocolate or the opportunity will buy it anyway.
NEGATIVE INFO WON’T HURT THE SALE
People who are searching the internet for information have usually made their decision already, so they will look for specific information that can support their own decision.
The ones who aren’t interested will find the negative articles, and decide NOT to buy the chocolate. But that is probably the same decision they initially had before they started to search. But the distributors will probably need training in how to handle negative feedbacks, and in how to feel more relaxed in situations like that.
The ones who ARE interested will probably buy the chocolate anyway. They will consider other information to be more important. They will read the articles, but then they will look for other information that will support their own decisions. And if they have read the articles, they will probably become more “immune” to stuff like that.
So what’s most important here is to give the distributors proper training, in how to handle negative feedbacks and in how to feel more relaxed about it.
SJOKOSERVICE NORGE
Trying to remove the articles was a bad idea, and the methods they used made the idea even worse. And how they handled the situation afterwards didn’t help much either. A short and factual statement would have been much better than trying to drown people in meaningless propaganda.
Sjokoservice Norge also tried to give the impression that MXI Corp. was involved, and would sue the blog for defamation to set an example for the European market, an “If you mess with us then you will have to pay for it” example. But instead they only attracted more people willing to mess with them.
Sjokoservice Norge HAS set an example for the Europan market. “If you mess with us, then we will publish a press release where we won’t answer any of your questions. Instead we will try to drown you in marketing propaganda”.
MXI CORP.
MXI Corp. didn’t impress me either, in how they handled the situation. If you have a problem in a market, it will usually be better to take control over the situation than to free yourself from responsibility. And then we have a strategy called “get ALL the skeletons out of the closet at the same time, and make sure you don’t have any skeletons hidden”.
MXI’s reaction was “We have been informed about the situation. We have not authorized any actions like that, and we are currently investigating the situation”. Plus my addendum: “And we will need lots of time to investigate it, so you can’t expect to hear from us before next year, if your lucky”.
MXI Corp. has several skeletons in the Norwegian market. The marketing there used lots of misleading and illegal claims. Most of THAT marketing has been removed from the internet now, but they clearly HAD lots of misleading marketing.
THE PATENT?
On thing I haven’t found any information about is the “patented cold pressing method”.
Some distributors used arguments like that for why the Xocai chocolate should be more healthy than other chocolate, and as a method to defend the high price. A distributor should normally be able to document claims used in marketing, if anyone asks about it.
“Patented method” is clearly a claim in marketing, but none of the distributors were able to give any information about patent number and where it was registered. This in one of the skeletons they still have hidden in the closet.
From EU UCP Directive, the blacklist:
“Patented cold pressing method” will need to be documented if anyone asks about it. The distributor will need to have the information available at any given time if he uses “patented” and similar claims in the sales dialogue.
Marketing material will need to have the information available in the same section where the claim is presented, not hidden somewhere else.
If you prefer to use expressions like “patented” in marketing and sales, then you should also be willing to document it. Having a patent isn’t enough, the marketing will still be misleading if you can’t give people the correct information about it.
The only “patent” I found was the registered brand name or trade name “healthy chocolate”. But we can’t claim that a “patent” like this will give the product some extra value for the consumer, like making the product become more healthy.
A part of the two articles focused on the misleading health claims, where some distributors directly or indirectly claimed that the product had some “curative effect” or preventing effect on some diseases.
Sjokoservice Norge and other distributor websites have removed most of the misleading material now from the internet, but there clearly has been a problem — what Terje Ragnar Babsvik called “rogue players”.
RESISTANCE IN A MARKET
It’s a normal reaction from the market when someone starts to ask critical questions about the marketing methods, when they are questionable in the first place. And for Xocai I clearly have found questionable methods.
The normal reaction from a company should be to do something with their own marketing methods, the area that is directly under their own control. They can’t expect the market to change, something like “gradually all the people in the world will become much more positive” or “if we threaten enough people, the problem will be solved”.
In Norway, they have come to a point where their initial marketing methods have started to fail. The market has become less willing to accept misleading marketing claims without showing negative reactions to them. For a distributor, it will usually be better to join a company before it has reached a stage like that.
So the question for MXI Corp. should be something like this:
“Our marketing methods have started to fail, in that they attracts lots of negative reactions from the market. What do we need to do about it?”
It’s important that they identify it that way, to be their own marketing methods rather than some vague cause in the market itself.
Xocai just made the topic list of “Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe”
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=1&pid=365
If they can get the guy to take down the site through intimidation, it’s a win for them.
The negative publicity, however, is actually HURTING Xocai folks. It’s call the Streisand effect: the harder you tried to suppress info, the more attention you draw to it.
Chocolate diet has been disproved in subsequent studies.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/04/09/eat-chocolate-for-better-health/
“Choco Late” has tried to publish under multiple aliases, I’d assume it’s Adam Green himself (or his downline)… y’know, doing the whole ‘oh hey guys, I’m “researching” MXI and Xocai, here’s a link to my blog. PS. You’re all negative.”
I’d say it’s a little hasty, give him more rope to hang himself, but it’s your blog. 😉
I consider ‘I have nothing to say, here look at this (link to my blog)’ comments as spam.
I have never questioned the statements about chocolate having a general positive effect on the health, both fysically and mentally. I learned that from “Charlie and the chocolate factory” by Roald Dahl, several years ago. 🙂
In EU, it has recently become allowed to make SOME health claims about SOME chocolates. So it CAN be defined as “nutrional supplement” or something similar. But Xocai’s marketing in Norway had clearly illegal claims.
I have only been analysing the marketing, whether it was misleading or factual, whether it was the cause of the troubles or if it has worked as it was meant to be working. So when I found one or more misleading claims, it was easy to identify the marketing as the cause of the trouble (one of them).
@K. ChangDon’t make it become a discussion about health effects, unless you want to be drowned in scientifical studies. You will end up having to answer 5 posts per day outside your own field of expertise. Remember SugarMums? 🙂
Detailed discussions about health effects will be outside the main topic of this blog, and ouside the topic of this article, so Oz will probably have stop a discussion like that after a few posts when the posts continues to go off-topic.
@Choco LateI have balanced K. Chang’s link with the information about some health claims being allowed in EU, to prevent further off-topic discussions. A link to the scientifical study would be meaningless, but I have browsed through it in 5 minutes.
Can anyone help me with some advice?
I’m in the US and my husband & I own a business. Our office manager started selling Xocai and now she is using OUR company’s CLIENT DATABASE to solicit to…both to request orders and sign people into her MLM.
We are getting complaints from OUR clients that she is being too persistent and aggressive with her constant emails, Facebook messages, and texting our clients!!!
I want her fired because what she is doing is totally inappropriate and she is just using us with no regard for how she is jeopardizing our relationship with our client base.
Have any of you dealt with a similar situation or know anyone else who has? I’m afraid for our business.
Thank you all!!
My answer is simple:
Your OM is WAY OUT OF LINE, soliciting YOUR clients for HER PRIVATE business!
Give her ONE CHANCE, sit her down in your office with your hubby present, and explain this very clearly:
Have the termination papers typed up and ready to go. Show her the envelope and the letters.
Then tell her: I have no problem with you running a side business, that is your problem. But FIND YOUR OWN CLIENTS instead of using MY client list as your lead generator!
I will give you ONE CHANCE to fix this, and keep working here, or you pack your desk NOW.
Send an apology to EACH of MY clients that you spammed that you did it without my permission, it’s purely your own act, not condoned by the business, and you are deeply apologetic and will NEVER do it again!
What will it be?
If she refuses, FIRE HER IMMEDIATELY, WITH CAUSE! That way she doesn’t even get unemployment!
If she accepts, let her know that she’s expected to start apologizing right away, and if you hear ANY further complaints about her pushing those chocolate she’ll get fired, with NO FURTHER WARNING!
And keep an eye on her, install an activity tracker on the office computer.
Oh, and make sure you have her sign a memo of understanding, and put it in her personnel file.
Basically that she understands she’s now on “probation”, and has promised to cease and desist activities aforementioned (i.e. stealing your client list). She was NOT authorized to use your client list for other purposes, and she promised to never do it again.
Have her sign it, give her a copy, along with the proof, like phone logs, complaints from clients, etc. all goes into her personnel folder.
That way later, if you have to fire her, you have paperwork to show cause. Just make sure everything is documented.
(You *may* want to have the clients make a written complaint, like e-mail print out, just to make sure there’s a hardcopy file)
Dunno about the legality of it but I would have fired her immediately upon receiving complaints from clients they were being solicited for some other business by one of my employees.
That’s pretty low, using your client list to market her business, withot authorisation or thought as to how this reflects on your business and its operations. Then of course there’ the ethics…
K. Chang
THANK YOU SO MUCH for such a detailed and specific reply! I am printing this out for my husband to see!!! I really appreciate this advice and this is definitely in line with what I have been wanting to do right from the start! He needs to understand that my outrage over this is NOT personal! This is about BUSINESS!
OZ:
I totally agree! It’s crazy because She has been our OM for TEN years but everything has gone downhill ever since she started this stupid MLM business!!!!
Thank you both again for advice!!!!
Oh, one more thing.
As she’s female, appeal to her female instincts… empathy.
Let her know how much YOU are hurt by this.
Not only can this hurt your BUSINESS, you are also DEEPLY hurt that you can’t trust her with your business info, and this is after TEN YEARS of business relations, presumably as a personal friend as well!
One further idea, I don’t know how good you two are though… sounds like your husband want to be the good cop, and you be the bad cop.
So talk it over with your husband. He can be the “good cop” presenting the offer, AFTER you hit her over the head with the threat of termination as the bad cop.
You start with the letter of termination, blah blah blah. “I ought to fire you right now! You have NO IDEA how much damage you did to this business, not to mention betray our trust!”
“But he said we should give you another chance.”
“He can explain what you need to do to make it up to us.”
Just stay there to make sure he doesn’t go too easy on her. 😀
@Janet McDonald
You’ll need to stop the use of YOUR client list as her mailing list.
I’m not sure about the details for how to do it, but I agree with K. Chang in the documentation part = make sure you’ll able to document it.
Those of your clients who have signed up must be able to protect themselves. You’re not responsible for their decisions. You’re responsible for your employees, for doing the controls needed and make sure they’re acting ethically.
It seems like she’s giving her own business a higher priority than your’s?
I would have given her a detailed description of the problem:
Try to solve that problem first, before you focus on your “I want to fire her” feelings?
If you fire her, she will be outside your control and can continue to spam your customers. So from my viewpoint, you should first make sure the problem is under control, and THEN you can decide to fire her.
I have pointed out some problems in Xocai’s marketing methods, in that they are trying to “drown” their potential customers in propaganda-like marketing, whether the customer is interested or not. I’ll guess something similar has happened to your clients.
A part of the problem can probably be found in Xocai’s training, they are too onesided in their methods.This is partially reflected in a few comments here:
MY SUGGESTION:
1. Reduce your “I want to fire her” feelings, at least temporarily. You’ll need to talk about solutions first, how to solve the current problem with your clients.
2. Get an overview over the problem, how many of your clients have been affected, and how many of them have made complaints to you about the situation.
3. Look at it from your clients’ viewpoint. Their first priority is probably to get the marketing stopped.
4. Contact your Office Manager as soon as possible and TELL her about the problem, but keep it relatively neutral (you will need an overview before you can make any decisions). ASK her to stop marketing against your clients immediately, until both of you have the necessary overview over the situation.
My strategy here has been to make you less emotional and more rational about the problem. Point 2 contains lots of rational activities, where you will be focused on getting an overview over the problem. The more relaxed you are about the situation, the better you will be able to solve it
I have also tried to identify a better viewpoint = try to solve it from your clients’ viewpoint rather than your own.
I used neutral expressions, “TELL her” and “ASK her”. You will probably need some assistance from her to solve the problem. Try to keep her on your side as best you can until you have more control over the situation.
I’m not trying to push you in any direction, only the initial reactions.
I have been Service Manager in a company for 6 years, the guy who was sent out to fix problems with dissatisfied customers (business to business).
I would have used a similar method as described above, making myself become more relaxed as the most important step.
Your clients don’t blame YOU for the problem, but they want you to solve it. It isn’t YOU who is the problem from their viewpoint. Solve the problem and they will be satisfied.
Thank you K. Chang for even more detailed info! I’m definitely going to be studying this to help me with our plan!
Thank you M Norway I like ur approach too! I’m going to use all of this great info to deal with this situation the right way!
Much appreciated! :)))))))
Shame on anyone using unethical business practices in ANY business. Advocates and critics alike!
The truth shall set you free.
I wasn’t aware of any unethical business practice on the part of the critics… since the critics are not in a “business” per se… 😉