World Ventures Review: Travel niche recruiting scam
World Ventures is a MLM company founded back in 2005 within the travel industry niche. Founded by Wayne Nugent and Mike Azcue, World Ventures is located in Plano, TX (Dallas) and is ‘privately owned and operated and debt-free‘.
As of the last few years the travel niche within the MLM industry seems to have become somewhat saturated with new startups. World Ventures is particularly notable in this respect as the company has now been around for six years, long before the trend towards travel companies occurred.
For this reason a review of Travel Ventures is particularly interesting. A review of World Ventures is going, provides us with a snapshot into the potential future of some of the newer travel niche MLM startups of late.
So, did being one of the first companies to combine travel and MLM pay off for World Ventures?
Let’s find out.
World Ventures’ Products
World Ventures offers three ‘products’ for sale, all of which appear to be memberships;
DreamTrips Membership
A World Ventures DreamTrips membership entitles a member to make us of World Venture’s bulk buying capacity.
As a company, World Ventures purchases vacation trips in bulk at a discount and then makes them available to their members.
World Venture’s claim that ‘members typically save the price of their membership within their first two trips‘.
Membership to DreamTrips is a once off payment of $199.99 and then a $49.99 monthly fee recurring.
Luxury DreamTrips Membership
Luxury DreamTrips membership, in contrast to the regular DreamTrips membership, is aimed at ‘the discerning traveler‘.
Operating in a similar fashion to a regular DreamTrips membership, the Luxury DreamTrips membership offers the member access to ‘high-end, lavish getaways offered to you at incredible discounts‘.
Unlike the regular DreamTrips membership however, the luxury offerings are solely aimed at small groups. Therefore if you want to travel on a Luxury DreamTrips package, you need to fulfill the group requirement (the number varies depending on the trip), before you can travel.
To help with this, a Luxury DreamTrips membership covers you, your spouse, a friend and any dependent children you have.
As I’m reading it, there are no single travel opportunities available with a Luxury DreamTrips membership.
The cost of joining the Luxury DreamTrips membership program is a once off payment of $999.99 and then a monthly fee of $99.99.
The LTC Package
As a Leisure Travel Consultant (LTC), purchasers are provided with a personalised travel website. Through this website LTC members can retail travel trips via third party travel company ‘Roxia’ and earn a commission.
Other services provided to LTC members include 24 hour roadside assistance, a tax advice hotline and the 24/7 Rovia concierge service.
Training opportunities are also provided (via Rovia) to allow the LTC consultant to earn greater commissions on the travel packages sold via their provided travel portal website.
None of these services are provided by World Ventures themselves, it’s all outsourced to third party travel vendor Rovia.
An LTC membership will cost you a one time payment of $199.95 and then $24.99 a month.
Note that an LTC membership does not provide you with access to either DreamTrips or Luxury DreamTrips vacations, membership for access to these trips needs to be purchased separately.
The relationship between Rovia and World Ventures
Like nearly all travel niche MLM companies, World Ventures themselves do not directly provide the travel services they make available to their members.
Instead, the travel side of World Ventures is handled by a third party company, Rovia.
Rovia is a reportedly twenty five year old company who, as far as I can see don’t have any other affiliation with World Ventures beyond providing World Ventures and its members with access to their travel portal backend.
Note that this is an exclusive relationship though. You can’t purchase the DreamTrips memberships or an LTC package from Rovia directly, you need to go through World Ventures.
Given that World Ventures thus have a 100% marketshare in Rovia’s membership products, perhaps there is then a relationship at a management level between the two companies.
Footnote: I was unable to find any but from a business position the relationship makes sense. Otherwise why would a third party with no vested interest in World Ventures opt to limit their market share to one company exclusively?
The World Ventures Compensation Plan
World Ventures offers its members access to a binary compensation plan which, as far I can see is quite solid.
World Ventures members have access to direct commissions, residual income and various bonuses and travel and training incentives as their success with World Ventures grows.
I’ve previously undertaken a full indepth review of the World Ventures compensation plan, so I won’t go into too much more detail here.
I will however reiterate the bulk of my compensation plan conclusion which was that a lot of the residual commissions and bonus pool access is tied into how well a World Ventures member can ‘sell’ DreamTrips memberships or the LTC package to other people and keep them on autoship.
To be a ‘Qualified Representative’ you need to actively sell at least one of World Ventures products (memberships) a month. Being a one time purchase this means you’re out there trying to recruit sell new prospects to the membership programs.
Don’t do this and you’ll remain at the ‘Active Representative’ level in the compensation plan which simply provides you with direct commissions. A paltry once off commission of $20 for a DreamTrips membership or LTC Package sale or $150 for a Luxury DreamTrips sale.
Hardly income replacing and nowhere near high enough to solely generate a full time income off of.
The World Ventures Income Disclosure
One thing a lot of companies don’t provide the general public with is an income disclosure. Cutting through hype and marketing spiel, an income disclosure provides a quick snapshot of how a particular business is faring or has fared over a period of time.
World Ventures thankfully do provide an income disclosure spanning the fiscal years 2006 to 2009.
So how did they fare?
The single most important fact to take away from World Ventures’ income disclosure is the fact that 73.7% of World Ventures’ Representatives did not earn a commission during their time in the business.
Out of the 26.3% of representatives that did earn a commission, 26.28% failed to progress past the rank of ‘Qualified Representative’ and took home an average annual commission of just $193 and $684 (Active and Qualified Representatives respectively).
How does earning up to $684 a year in commissions sound to you? Well, if you join World Ventures you’ve got a 99.98% chance of achieving your goal.
The complete income disclosure statement is available directly from World Ventures.
Conclusion
For me, the income disclosure statement for World Ventures pretty much says it all. The fact that World Ventures retail ‘memberships’ and not actual products via Rovia is a reflection of this.
Whilst it’s true that World Ventures don’t directly financially compensation you for bringing others to the business itself, you still have to bring others to the Rovia business to get anywhere in the compensation plan.
And this, despite being a third party recruitment, is still recruitment dependent MLM.
If we accept that, then it’s easy to dissect the compensation plan as being reliant on World Ventures’ members to have to go out and recruit new prospects to Rovia’s own membership programs.
Sure they might not join or be interested in World Ventures’ attached business opportunity, but you are still recruiting them into something (Rovia).
A failure to recruit people is what I’d put down the atrocious 99.98% failure rate (those earning less than $700 annually) in World Ventures.
Although direct commissions on memberships are available ($20 and $150), they are hardly enough to sustain an income off of and provide and real financial security.
Moreso I suspect they are included to satisfy legal requirements rather than to offer any real incentive to World Ventures’ Representatives.
The second major problem I see with World Ventures is that, whilst discounts are claimed to be made available via the travel packages offered by Rovia, one would need to carefully weigh up whether the monthly fees payable justify the savings made on the initial discounts offered.
A year of DreamTrips membership (including initial purchase price) is $749.88, a Luxury DreamTrips membership is $2099.88 and an LTC package is 224.94.
There’s no point saving hundreds of dollars in travel bookings if you’re just going to lose it in membership fees.
This is obviously going to vary from representative to representative based on their individual travel service needs, but I believe is the strongest factor that needs to be taken into a World Ventures membership consideration.
These two points for me are the bottom line when it comes to weighing up the World Ventures MLM business opportunity and can be summarised in two short questions;
-
- Do I have what it takes to beat a 99.98% failure rate?
- Will I save more in travel costs than you’ll pay World Ventures and Rovia in monthly membership fees?
The answers to both questions should be more than enough to guage whether the World Ventures opportunity is for you.
Update 6th September 2019 – In September 2019 BehindMLM published an updated WorldVentures review.
The way I see it, as long as you get your 4 friends or whoever to sign up with you…than who cares if you can turn it into the business or not. You pay nothing ever again, and you get to enjoy cheap vacations with your friends for the rest of your life.
@Phil
So long as they get their four friends, who then need to go get their four friends, who need to go get four friends…
Honestly, you don’t see the problem here?
That’s the beauty of pyramid schemes and shady matrices… You don’t lose… It’s all your downlines that lose. As long as you have THAT mentality, i.e. “f*** everybody else, I’m just out for myself.” then sure, go join.
This article is now over a year old (I’m reading it on May 1, 2012) and at least for how things are with World Ventures right now, it is not accurate.
The structure has changed, the products have changed, and contrary to what K. Chang says in the comments, it is not a pyramid scheme or shady anything.
The downline doesn’t lose as they offer an amazing product for an amazing price. Refering 4 friends is easy because the product and company are that good. The company offers phenomenal support and work is done as a team effort.
There really is nothing to lose by joining World Ventures and everything to gain.
@B. Scott — unfortunately, that’s what all of the “victims” say before the realize it’s a scam. Care to try again? Heard it all before from TVI Express folks.
What makes World Ventures DIFFERENT from the scam, such as TVI Express? Apart for the superficial stuff, like NOT based in India?
For reference I paid a visit to the website…
The products look the same (has LTC been renamed ‘DreamTrips Life’?)
At the end of the day World Venutures’ products are still just membership which itself is not a viable product. When you sell membership to other services and reward 100% of your commissions on the sale and renewal of said membership, you’ve got yourself a pyramid scheme.
You claimed everything has changed yet here are your own words:
Products? What products… still sounds like a recruitment game to me.
Reading Rovia’s LTC program makes it clear that it is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to WorldVentures. Anybody can join LTC (and their higher level, such as BTA or TRS, with more training and more responsibilities)
This is looking more and more like TVI Express claiming “tie-up” with Travelocity when they’re merely an affiliate.
The product is trvel, therefore it can’t be a pyramid scheme.
World Ventures themselves don’t handle travel, their product is membership to access third party travel services (not run by the company).
Furthermore no commissions are earnt via World Ventures based on use of the travel services.
In short, the commissions offered by World Ventures have nothin to do with travel and are just paid out on membership fees.
Pyramid scheme.
Hmmm…all I can say is I am laughing your “pyramid scheme” all the way to the bank. Been in for two years. Took three trips last year that were AMAZING for ridiculously good prices and turned $365 into over 10x that in one year.
While that is not income replacing…that is only the first year (this year I have already made considerably more). I have personally had 6 friends who saw this the way I did. Of those 6 … all 6 are still in WV and have thanked me more than once for “changing their life!” (each one has been in WV for almost 2 years as well).
In my opinion, the numbers reflected in the income disclosure are what they are because a lot of people are simply lazy. Anyone who thinks they will turn $365 into millions by sitting on their butts and eating bon bons is deluding themselves.
Anything worth having is worth working for. I work “maybe” 10 hours a month at this point. Seeing my current success (yes…I suppose I am in that .02% you referred to – which is really not an accurate number if you actually read the income disclosure statement…that % was based on who hits the HIGHEST level) with the smallish effort I have put into this business I can’t wait to see what happens next!
Oh…and btw…more inaccuracies in that you don’t have to bring in a new person every month. I have been in two years, brought in 6 people and have paid only $365 one time and one monthly fee of $65 because I was not ready to start yet when I started and content to pay that fee for the month instead of doing something.
That is ALL I have paid in to the company in two years. They have paid me WAY more than I paid them…
If getting this big of an ROI is a pyramid scheme then call me a sucker who likes to have $ deposited into my bank account each week/month. Cause that is what this has been for me!
Perhaps rather than writing a review without actually trying something, you should consider trying it! Invest $365 into writing your review…become a rep and see what article you write a year from now! Game on?
@my2cents
How much you make is irrelevant when assessing whether or not World Ventures is a membership driven pyramid scheme or not.
Whether you spend 10 hours or 100 hours a month recruiting members, it’s again irrelevant when assessing whether or not World Ventures is a membership driven pyramid scheme.
This was taken directly from the compensation plan and is what is presented to prospective members. If World Ventures have removed this qualification clause from their business model, they should approprietly also remove it from their compensation plan material.
Or it could just be the backend operations don’t match what’s presented on the front end of things. This is often the case with pyramid schemes (it’s all about the $$$ coming in from membership fees, whether the other mechanicals work or not is irrelevant).
ROI has nothing to do with it, a business model solely determines whether or not a MLM company is a pyramid scheme or not.
World Ventures business model relies on the constant recruitment of new members in order for commissions to be paid out. Infact you are unable to earn a commision unless either a membership fee is paid and/or a new member is recruited.
Trying something is irrelevant when assessing whether or not it is a pyramid scheme. Analysis of the business model alone determines this.
If World Ventures still pay out 100% commissions from membership fees with no other marketable product, 1 year or 100 years from now the review and conclusion will remain the same: World Ventures is a pyramid scheme.
@my2cent –
you got schooled by oz
A pyramid scam is an operation where people are paid for recruiting others with no product in mind. The folks at worldventures are paid for selling a travel membership.
There’s a legitimate product its talked about on the oprah show and by traveler/ author jack canifield. Donald trump and Robert Kiyasaki are huge propriortors of network marketing. Ever heard of rich dad poor dad oz?
Yes, and?
So what happens when this market becomes fully saturated…I guess they will just use a new product lol.
The story start like that: one old friend call me and he say,hello how are you ………………….. and later he say i have a great dell for you and we meet he show me some videos and some photos.
i sing in but on the end he say:: i need some credit or debit card to pay for you business pack or something like that and i say to my boy friend to give me hem visa card than i ask my old friend Chris, will don’t have any problem whit the card yeee and he say don’t worry everything will ok.
And what happen one mount later, my boyfriend comeback from work and start to ask me way World Ventures take a around 50 euro from my card and i was very surprise way and how, i was start to think way is must by something wrong and i was start to search and i find out that some payment every mount and that make me angry every mount 50 euro i tray to cancel my account or deleted but i don’t find from ware.
was pass one mount more and was happen the same World Ventures take again around 50 euro from my boy friend card that way i want to delete my account and also i don’t have a time to search a or to offer people to sing in so place delete my account.
My email is (Ozedit: email removed) and my ID# (Ozedit: ID removed) i hope so someone will do something about that, and if no one do something i will still search on all web forums and places wear World Ventures post and i will live the some comments !!!!!!!!
The only people who can do something are World Ventures themselves, get in contact with them.
The problem is not only the market becoming saturated with “product” but, the market being saturated with people who have been approached with the “opportunity” to participate in an “opportunity”
Test it for yourself.
Tell people you would like to show them an “opportunity” and see how many of them come back with It’s not Amway, is it ??
So is this worldventure membership thingy worth to join? It just getting started in my country (its hot news) and i was wondering should i ‘invest’?
As per the World Ventures compensation plan, it’s an unsustainable pyramid scheme.
Should you join….? You tell us.
So glad I got my girlfriend out of this scam!
Just go out an look at all of the people trying to warn you about their scam.
Run Run Run
The two owners are tax cheats
@oz…”A pyramid scam is an operation where people are paid for recruiting others.
The folks at worldventures are paid for selling a travel membership.”
Have you ever heard of any other business that are membership sustained? How about any Gym in america. Pretty sure they make the majority of their money on Memberships. Not to mention they have contracts.
Or maybe you have heard of a store called COSTCO
In 2005, Costco had total revenues of close to $53 billion and net profits of $1.063 billion – thus achieving a 2% profit margin. Here’s what is interesting, revenues from Costco’s membership fees (which are pure profit) were $1.073 billion. Thus, membership revenues entirely make up Costco’s profits.
So how is a Membership driven system not sustainable? How is WV any different in providing memberships to save people money?
Also Oz, a “pyramid scheme” is the exchange of money between two people, where there is no product or service. And they are illegal.
WV has a product… Its called Dreamtrips, and a service called Rovia, and if you don’t think it’s legit, call Carnival Cruise Lines and ask them if they will give you a discount if you book 10,000 or 20,000 cabins from them this year and see if they will give you discount for buying bulk, and then do some research and see how many cabins World Ventures/Rovia bought from them this year.
I don’t know, maybe i’m just naive. Maybe I missed something in the fine print, but I’ve been in for 4 months, I don’t pay my fees anymore (haven’t since the initial Membership Fee, because I was able to show this horrible scam to a few friends who have been thanking me ever since. How annoying)…
Anyways, WV has been a game changer for me, and I’ve made more than it cost to join, worked hard enough to get my monthly membership fees waived (which took about 6hours of total work…maybe) And booked our honeymoon for May 2013, so I’ll let you know how it was, but I already know it saved us over $1900. So if it’s not for you, don’t join, that simple.
Neither of those business are MLM, and neither pay out cash commissions on acquisition of new members. They are obviously not MLM income opportunities.
Oh dear…
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Membership is not a product, neither is Rovia, it’s a third party service offered by a third party company that has nothing to do with World Ventures.
World Ventures itself only offers membership, which makes it a pyramid scheme.
Well, points for being honest.
@oz… None of your responses make any since. MLM or not, business is business. oh, and I’ve worked for gyms before selling memberships, that was my job. Not to train them, not to sell them supplements, not to teach them how to use the equipment. Just to sell them a membership.
If People didn’t sign up, I didn’t make anything. People fail because they don’t work hard enough at something. Plain and Simple.
Oh, and World Ventures has never paid me in Cash. You get a check. Wow, what a shady company…
Bottom line is this. I’ve made more than it cost to join, saved more than it cost to join, don’t pay a membership fee and I am still happily learning and earning more all the time.
Have I quit my day job yet, nope… but a couple hours here and there, I make a couple hundred extra a month, I travel cheap, and earn $$ when I book my own travel, and at this point it doesn’t cost me anything.
Think what you want, but membership, or business aspect… WV is Still a great deal.
Trouble is the travel side of World Ventures is completely detached from the compensation plan.
In MLM, this is called a pyramid scheme.
Seriously…? /facepalm.
If you’re only selling memberships in MLM, you’re in a pyramid scheme.
Seriously? Pyramid schemes can be in any type of company. There is no difference between WorldVentures and SAM`S Club except for that SAM`S sells items that can be thrown away or broken whereas WorldVentures sells family, fun, fulfillment, and financial freedom.
If that’s not enough, WV is also a personal development company in disguise that builds leaders out of people.
Anyways. Does SAM`S make profit off of its products? Barely at all. They get their money from the memberships. Does that make Sam’s a pyramid scheme? No. Then why would WV be one? It isn’t. The ONLY way you can possibly fail at MLM (specifically WorldVentures) is by quitting. It’s a game of how badly do you want freedom in every sense of the word.
The people that call WorldVentures a scam are the quitters, employees of the world, and the people that can’t stand that there’s a 19 year old kid from Alabama making more money than them just for traveling and showing people how to get what he has.
To build a rock star team, you show people (preferably people you wouldn’t mind traveling with) the opportunity. Some will see and understand the great opportunity and potential while some will not. Some will… Some won’t… So what… NEXT.
You get your four so you no longer have financial obligations to the company. (Imagine if AT&T did that. You, oz, would probably call them a scam.) While you are getting your four, you spend every free second you have helping each of your new recruits get their four and training them to do the same as you.
Wash, rinse, repeat. Your responsibility as their sponsor is to try to get them to make more money than you. You take care of your troops, they will take care of you. Or at least that’s my method.
Incomes aren’t replaced without a lot of work, especially six figure incomes. It’s the hardest work you will ever partake in, but it pays off when you’ve put in your effort and you get those keys to that brand new BMW.
Or that extra monthly $1000 check to go towards any vehicle imaginable (car, truck, boat, yacht, plane, and etc.). Or that extra monthly $3000 check to go towards any house you want. Which is just icing on the cake compared to the minimum $50,000 a month when you hit IMD rank.
I mean really, how could any of this be a scam? This company has and will continue to be a blessing for many. But hey, oz, WorldVentures isn’t for everyone. I mean, I’m only 19… I need someone to mow my yard, cook my food, file my taxes, and monitor my house while I travel the world.
Nope. There’s got to be a multiple levels of payment where existing members are compensated on the recruitment of new members.
Look I know you’re 19 and everything and I’m not going to pull the age card, but you really need to go do some research and what constitutes an MLM company.
Between Sam’s Club and World Ventures, one is a MLM company that pays out on the recruitment of new members down multiple levels, the other isn’t.
people who have analysed the business model. Making up childish names for these people doesn’t change the model itself.
Note how this has nothing to do with the sale of any product. It’s just membership, recruit, recruit, recruit.
Straight outta Egypt.
Did you do math in school?
Then you have no idea what the LEGAL definition of a pyramid scheme is, do you? Sam’s Club is a Buying Club, not MLM or a pyramid scheme.
That’s not what it was advertised as. If you got some side benefit from it, great, but stick to what it was SUPPOSED to do, please.
Your assertion is ridiculous. Cost to join Sam’s club is $40 PER YEAR. With 50 million members (as of 2008), that’s only 2 billion in revenue. According to Walmart’s balance sheet, Sam’s Club had sales revenue of 46.9 BILLION (as of 2009).
So you have to resort of ad hominem attacks. Guess you ran out of LOGICAL and FACTUAL arguments.
WOW !!!
What insight.
So, of the 7 BILLION plus people on the planet, the “ONLY” people who recognize World Ventures as a fraud are “quitters and employees”
And, not only that, “GUNNER” knows how much money all 7 BILLION people earn and the fact a “19 year old” SAYS he earns more than them annoys them.
So, not even room in there for one or two people who say World Ventures is a fraud for “other” reasons ??
All I can say is, the World Ventures training must be extensive and in depth to allow it’s people to make such deadly accurate observations.
Only “quitters and employees”, Eh ???
@LRM — I think Gunner read too much Robert “Rich Dad” Kiyosaki. Sounds like that “quadrant” thinking, too much E, not enough B or something like that. Didn’t Kiyosaki declare bankruptcy a month or two ago?
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/rich_dad_bankrupt_dad_UNJgqVDYCEthW1TEAYYwXN
One of his companies did, not him personally.
He did it after he was sued by one of his early backers, lost the case and was hit with a $24million dollar judgement.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/334777
The difference is that you recruited CUSTOMERS to the gym, not new RECRUITERS to do the same work as yourself. A pyramid scheme will pay you for recruiting new recruiters, and all recruiters will have to pay for the right to recruit other recruiters (using a slightly simplified description).
People fail because of many different reasons. Working hard enough may be one of them, but working hard can also be the reason for failure. Many people fail because they’re working too hard on something, e.g. spending too much efforts on concepts that are deemed to fail.
My question is Where did you get your informayion that there was a monthly fee for membership. I just recently joined and only had a one time payment. That I KNOW OF!?
I think the bigger question is where did you get this from?
The review certainly doesn’t mention monthly membership fees…
Could it be a cut-and-paste random rebuttal?
I joined WV back in 2009 and I definately lost money, however there is a very precise plan that if you follow it, you will make money. Most people have a hard time following directions, including myself.
If I were to dedicate myself as trained I would have done amazing. I cannot say enough good things about the leadership and training. BC of my WV training, my outside sales career has been highly successful.
Si even if you arent down for an mlm.. the training, especially the View and Journey.. you absolutely cant beat!
In world ventures the cost is included so you can take advantage of the club discounts. So in order to recruit other people you have to be apart of it.
Who cares about the past of Wayne and Mike. Your judging men off of their pasts. SAMs is similar in the fact that both by their products in bulk. It’s obvious that you haven’t done enough research.
Yes, everything isn’t going to go as smoothly as the video shows. You should understand that in pyramid schemes they don’t offer to buy you a BMW or pay for your house.
You’ve said it yourself MLM Is a legal business tactic. Of course you can’t get rich fast but you can easily get rid of the monthly payments. It’s more about saving money on trips than the money.
The point being, you have to recruit to earn.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
People just do not join WV. Those that they do, quit in a period of less than 3 months when they already paid additional 150 in membership fees. Even if you recruit 4 persons, after they quit, you will have to pay the membership once a month.
If you only recruit 4 and they manage to recruit 100’s, if one of them quits, you will have to pay monthly fees. To be allowed any commission you should recruit at least one member each recurring month, despite of the numbers in your downline.
As far as the product is concern, I think it is great to have 3 day trips with only $100. But, in order to go to those locations (at least fron my country) you need to pay the air fares which are very expensive.
My third and last comment is the recruit one train one rule of WV. It goes like this: you recruit 1 member each month and train them to recruit 1 member each month.
Month 1 = 1 downline
Month 2 = 2 downline
Month 3 = 4 Downline
month 4 = 8 downline
Month 5 = 16 downline
Month 6 = 32 downline
Month 7 = 64 downline
Month 8 = 128 downline
Month 9 = 256 downline
Month 10 = 512 downline
Month 11 = 1024 downline
Month 12 = 2048 downline
Wow thats great. That means too much money. Now let us continue with this equation:
Month 13 = 4096 Downline
Month 14 = 8192
Month 15 = 16384
month 16 = 32768
Month 17 = 65536
Month 18 = 131072
Month 19 = 262144
Month 20 = 524288
Month 21 = 1048576
Month 22 = 2097152
Month 23 = 4194304
Month 24 = 8388608
By the end of the 3rd year you need to start recruiting aliens. If You take into account the 99.98% failure factor, you will probubly have a decent downline after you’ve lost all of your friends.
Ok so my understanding from what Oz says is that it’s a pyramid scheme just because you get paid off of recruiting new members.
Well I took a look into the company and yes it is pretty close to what you say but it isn’t exactly that.
In World Ventures you get paid off of just selling memberships not recruiting members. If you just sold memberships you get paid not 100% of the purchase of the memberships like Oz made it seem but you get paid a commission override on the initial payment and a commission override on their monthly payments.
Not only that but as you make sales the company also gives you free money to travel which allowed me to take 11 free vacations last year not including all the other bonuses they provide.
Although the gym is not a MLM it sort of works the same way because when you sell a gym membership you get a commission override and get paid for, so if they gave you (the buyer of the membership) the option to sell and make money off of selling memberships too then we will be in the same situation as World Ventures.
Now you can go out and just sell memberships and make your money like that but it can take forever in order for you to make any real money like that because you have a limited network and know only so much people.
So what they allow you to do is to also allow the members who purchased the membership to become a representative themselves. You also have the option of becoming a representative without purchasing the product.
And when someone decides to become a representative without purchasing the product no one gets paid anything at all for the person just becoming a representative hence the “The point being, you have to recruit to earn” is totally not true.
Now because you tipped the domino and found a new person who wanted to become a representative you also get a commission override on the sales they make so not only do they benefit from what they do you do too. And that also goes for all the representatives they found as well slowly building your network and over time when it gets big enough you will obviously be making a lot of money
I also wanted to point out the fact that throughout all the comment responses I’ve seen it seems to be a lot more opinions going around than facts.
Yes it is true what Oz says that any MLM company who solely pays on recruiting new members is a pyramid scheme. But world ventures does not pay on recruiting new members at all but solely on memberships sold and the monthly fees paid, they just give you the opportunity to leverage your time with someone else who wants to be a representative and get paid on what you both do and also give them the opportunity to do the same just like Amway and many other large MLM companies,
Seriously…?
You’re trying to make some absurd distinction between “selling memberships” and “recruitment”?
Stop wasting my time.
“The gym” isn’t MLM, so don’t waste our time bringing it up.
Getting paid to sell memberships = recruitment.
It’s really that simple.
“Amway and many other large MLM companies” do not pay you to recruit new members into the scheme, paying you commissions solely on the continuation of payment of said membership fees.
Absolute fail on every account.
Ok so from what i see on your last post Oz you have said absolutly nothing because first of all selling memberships is not recruiting and any idiot can obviously tell the difference.
Because you can sell 100 memberships and get paid, or you can recruit 100 representatives and get nothing. so the reason im trying to make an absurd distinction between “selling memberships” and “recruitment” is because there is a huge difference.
so lets call that one a fail on your part.
now i have done amway and they do pay you for recruitning new representatives so is amway a scheme ?? because from my understanding they are one of the biggest legal MLM companies out there.
So that is another fail on your part.
All your saying is fail, fail, fail, to everthing but you are still saying nothing. so please dont respond until you actually have something to say.
but i have one question are you or have you ever been a part of world ventures ?
…I really don’t know what to say to this. I think we’ve hit a new low of MLM marketing stupidity on BehindMLM.
Look, as per the World Ventures compensation plan you recruit new members you get paid. I don’t know what dictionary you’re using or what bullshit sales pitch you were given but that’s the way the comp plan works.
No, they don’t. And if you’re going to continue to make such claims back it up with the relevant quote from their compensation plan that states so.
Note this review isn’t about Amway so any continued further discussion of Amway without the explicit example cited from their compensation plan that defines a commission paid out solely upon the recruitment of new members will be marked as spam.
So too will any further nonsensical claims that selling memberships is not recruitment.
First of all you completely ignored my question. so it seems like your only looking at what i write just to talk negative about it and not ti give me an actual response.
You are being extremely ignorant, as i said the memebership and the representative business systems are two completely different things. now if you can post a link of the compensation plan you seem to know so well, i might add some credibility to everything you have been saying.
In amway you get paid on PV and BV, PV being personal volume which is how much products you have sold or consumed yourself, and BV being how much your downline has sold or consumed themselves. when signing up a new representative you are awarded 150 BV therefore being paid for recruiting a new member.
now you are right this isnt about amway but the facts remain the you get some sort of payment for recruiting new members into the “scheme”
I’m afraid the fail is on your part, as you’ve yet to establish what *you* perceive as the difference between “selling a membership” vs. “recruitment”.
If you are claiming that the matter of getting paid is the difference, getting paid is the REWARD for doing the action, not the action itself.
It’s pretty much “you say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to”, unless you can actually explain it.
As per the World Ventures compensation plan, affiliates earn commissions when they sell membership subscriptions the company claims are “products”.
These “products” are infact membership schemes offered via third parties, with World Ventures paying out commissions upon the continued payment of said membership fees (and skimming a bit off the top for themselves).
World Ventures itself has no products other than membership subscriptions – which in MLM are not viable products.
No doubt this BV is paid out on the purchase of product (sales commissions) by the new affiliate, and not merely the act of joining Amway.
Amway market tangible products, World Ventures market membership schemes with affiliates required to continually recruit new members into the scheme to generate commissions. Bid difference.
To sell a membership is to get someone to buy the product am i right ?
When someone buys the dreamtripslife membership all they get access to is the discounts on vactions, time shares, coupons to thousands of stores and and online portal where they can shop through where they can get free travel money for shopping at stores they already shop in.
they are not allowed to sell the membership or to reffer anyone they are just allowed to use the membership for its benefits simply put they are only a member of the trave club.
To recruit a representative is basically to find someone who also wants to sell the membership. when you become a representative you do not have access to any of the benefits of becoming a member you can only get paid for the memeberships you sold, that is why i said that they are two completely different things.
Membership itself is not a viable product in MLM, so no.
If you are paying out commissions solely on the recruitment of new members (membership fees), you’re running a pyramid scheme. New members have to recruit in order to generate commissions – that’s the problem.
What they get access to is irrelevant. It is the sale of membership (recruitment) that generates the commission through World Ventures.
Still recruitment. And if you want to earn anything you have to recruit.
As a final note, all these memberships are marketed internally via World Ventures as “products”. They are not marketed as third-party membership subscriptions but rather membership levels within the World Ventures company itself.
According to the federal trade comission, a MLM that solely pays on the recruitment of new distributors/representatives is a scheme, you do not get paid on the recruitment of representatives.
the is a fine line between being the person selling the product and the person consuming the product. although the product is not tangible just how a bjs, costco, or sams club membership is not tangible, it does not make the product any less legal just because the company itself is simply a MLM.
at a core they are all the same intagible product that have different benefits but can not be deemed illegal just because of their distribution choice.
No.
Membership is *access* to the product. At best, it’s a “derivative”.
If you sell a vacation / plane ticket / cruise, you sold travel.
You do NOT sell travel in WV. You sold membership that allows (possibly discounted) access to travel.
WV claims to be a “buyer’s club”, with the words “leverage buying power”. Do you know which laws buying clubs are supposed to follow? Or a better question… does WV?
Or perhaps you want to read this case from back in 1993, and see if it sounds similar to WV? In that they are reselling someone’s else’s membership, but most of the cost went to paying commission to people who brought in the most recruits?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/esp/esp7.html
You need to read up more on MLM law instead of skimming the FTC website and pick out the parts you like.
Go look up “Webster vs. Omnitrition”, and what MLM lawyers say about “ultimate consumer”… THEY CANNOT BE INSIDE THE COMPANY.
Then ask yourself this simple question: is the ultimate consumer for WV inside or outside the company?
@Dan
Given that World Ventures only sell memberships, new affiliates must recruit if they wish to earn any commissions.
No recruitment = no commissions.
Commissions in World Ventures are not dependent on use of the “product”, only the sale of the membership itself (recruitment).
Ding ding ding, now we’re getting it.
None of which are MLM companies, and are therefore not relevant or comparable.
Yes, it does. If you are selling memberships and earning a commission on the sale of memberships with no retail products or services (tangible or otherwise) being sold, you are in a pyramid scheme. End of story.
Choosing not to recruit does not excuse the fact that if you wish to earn commissions you need to recruit.
Ah, heck, I’ll do it for you.
From Grimes and Reese, MLM attorneys, on buying clubs
(Ozedit: link 404, removed Dec 2019)
Same guys, on the Omnitrition case
(Ozedit: link 404, removed Dec 2019)
Got all that?
im wondering why did i even strart in this argument, because lets say i prove you wrong or i get proven wrong nothing is going to happen unless you take your argument to court and shut down the company. so this is all completely pointless.
I admit you guys hold a strong argument, and i understand the fact that according to you the simple fact thet the product itself is not tangible but simply gives you access to discounted travel and other benefits makes its illegal because it is sold by indidviduals and not a travel agency and what mainly makes it illegal is that it is sold by a MLM company.
but i wish to be scammed a couple more times so i can make some extra money go on some more free vacations get another car, and not only that but every single person i reffered to get scammed a couple more times so the can have a couple more cars.
all im saying is that illegal or not, we will all find out when the company gets shut down, as for now im enjoying it to the fullest and so is everyone around me, and since i made the decision to join life has beeen nothing but great, simply put im glad i decided to do this.
So basically you’re just another, “I accept it’s a recruitment scam but as long as I’m getting paid f’em, right?” pyramid scheme participant.
Why am I not surprised.
That’s what you should have opened with, not this garbage about selling memberships not being recruitment. Think of the time we could have saved.
everything said on this post simply doesnt hold much of a purpose, so you couldve saved a lot of people a lot of time by simply saying nothing to begin with, whatever happens is going to happen anyways unless you do something about it.
Nope, you’ve misunderstood completely.
NO ULTIMATE CONSUMER = PYRAMID SCHEME.
And the court rules that members that qualify for the comp plan (whether s/he actively participates or not) is IN the company, and thus, NOT ultimate consumer.
Thus WV is very likely a pyramid scheme.
Whether it’s good or bad for you is besides the point.
Ah well, even if it only causes the next World Ventures affiliate to barge in here trying to convince us that up is down and down is up to pause for thought, I think we’ve still achieved something today.
It’s all about information. Your personal financial is irrelevant. And as for not saying anything, I wasn’t about to let your little “selling membership isn’t recruitment” gem go unchallenged.
Definitely not to someone who’s hostile to its contents and armed with disinformation and bad explanations.
If you cannot readily and easily sell back a membership, which cannot be done without a lot of grief, it’s not worth getting a membership in the first place.
I got a GRN membership back in 2009 and have never sold a membership as an affiliate and never used the membership. Now, $4,000 later, I’m stuck with something I will probably never use and cannot sell to anyone.
I highly recommend that no one ever get involved with the hype and lies suckers like myself bought in programs like GRN or any other “travel” program.
I am going to a meeting soon and have a few questions. I have read most of the comments on here but I need more clarification. Here are my questions and concerns.
1. All I want it for is to travel. What will it cost me to do this ?
2. Is it called a membership or a representive?
3. Am I mistaken in what I read? Do you have to travel in pairs or can a single person travel alone?
4. How hard is it to book a trip? If only so many spots are purchased from WV in a resort or a cruise then how hard is it for a person to get that open spot?
5. Is there a limit as to how many trips I can take a year?
6. Does trip discounts include airfare because a true travel agent get’s airline discounts?
7. Because I’m interested in travel only, will I have a yearly fee or will I be required to continually get people in the business (or both)???
Lastly, what is the one important question (that I don’t know to ask) to the person that will be showing me the plan?
The travel costs are the same as the membership costs. It’s all one big recruitment driven opportunity.
If you’re in it for the travel there might be better options around. With no retail option World Ventures is an MLM business opportunity as opposed to a straight travel club. They themselves only resell third-party offers, so you might find it cheaper to go through those third-partys directly.
Hei guys!
I just scrolled down here before had a chance to read all comments. I am from Latvia. Worldventures has just started here and some of my friends (not with the highest IQ) are already in. I am getting a bit nervous.
Mr Oz – what patiance u show!)))
So what I think about worldventures:
1. WV is not economically viable- MLM pyramid scheme.
2. VW has sekt based psichological aprouch – they look and sound sick.
3. VW is debiting yr CC monthly without yr approval.
4. All money for memberships and trips goes thru VW accounts.
5. This will end with Large scam, when year 2013/14/15 just before Christmas, VW will transfer all money from their accounts to offshore bank. End of story.
6. Participants of WV are gullible or too young.
7. My poor friends who are in VW has lowered their social standing, but they dont care- they have new friends and stupid hopes.
8. Participants will have extra tax bills for income and criminal cases for illigal entrepreneurship. etc
Same b.s. from another “company” complete with starry eyed neophytes looking for fast$$.
I just checked compared actual dreamtrip from ROVIA:
http://corp.roviaescapes.com/escapes/greatescapes?pc=1302141&dc=RCC
Amsterdam bilderberg hotel 4 nights/ 5 days
447$ per person per room sharing for two= room for two will cost u- 894USD.
http://www.hotels.nl/amsterdam/jan-luyken/?arrival=2013-02-11&departure=2013-02-16
If i book myself thru hotels.nl it will cost me 545USD. Total minus 350USD or 65% more expensive. WTF?
I just want to say thanks to OZ for the valuable information on WV. They almost got me to join. Don’t let them wear you down stay one step above the scam and con-artist that are out there.
Thanks again Ive been sitting here for about an hour just reading you go back and forth shutting every rep that recruited another rep to help them in this argument. They couldn’t even succeed in this. LOL
i joined in december. my folks went south to texas from up here in dakotas, i probably saved them 50 bucks on 2 rooms as they traveled to brownsville. we are all corperate lodging members. 2 of the 3 rooms they used were cheaper on rovia than corperate lodging (which has always had cheap rooms).
my inlaws are going to cancun in march. immediately after i joined, i ran their same trip on travelocity (they booked through a local travel agency). 1100 dollar savings over local travel agency, 800(400 each) over travelocity.
i joined strictly to travel, don’t do much of it, but figure in a year or two, should have some good points built up. also, don’t forget about the extra few dollars saved when ordering online at the online mall. our town has best buy, walgreens and walmart. either 59.00 or 65.00 per month for the fees. i already have 1 person signed up, and should have #2 in the next week or so.
i really can’t complain, if you cannot afford the lose of the inital 199.00 + a few monthly fees until you reach your 4 new members, this is definately not for you. if i loose 200-300 bucks, i guess i will loose it.
i don’t figure on quitting my job, or retiring from this, but i do fully expect to save some money on travel.-
@doug
Yeah, totally not a recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
I joined a few years back and never received comission on any of my booked travels. I have had a very hard time reaching anyone to get to the bottom of it.
Oz you are to be commended for your patience and clear thinking.
It is unbelievable how greed can defy logic.
DO NOT JOIN WORLD VENTURES IT IS A PYRAMID SCHEME
Oz… Thanks so much for all your help I was looking everywhere for some answer regarding this crazy bs of a business which my kid brother from college wants to join.. And since I’ve been in real business for a while he need my advise on whether to join or not..
I’ve been scheme so many time with so many MLM now I know better so far in counting 10 pyramids so no more and I definitely don’t want my little brother to go down that pass of wasting time.
I call tomorrow and tell him no way Jose… You Ain’t no time for this.
Thank you Dr.Oz, I accidentally went to one of these presentations (I was lied to).
I knew it was a scam but i have no background knowledge on how to argue with these people. You have given me a lot of information and now i know how to give a legit argument.
I just wanted to add that I was trying to convince two of my friends not to get it, the moderator of the presentation ridiculed me, insulted me, called me names.
It got me really angry and just wanted to share this experience. It felt like a cult man…..
The reason many HYIP ponzi and endless chain recruiting (pyramid) schemes “feel like a cult” is because they use the same type of methodology and techniques to ensnare their victims
None of it accidentally, by the way.
One infallible way to identify pyramid schemes that try to hide their true nature by selling some kind of “product” is the ratio of representatives to external customers.
In any normal business external customers (those who purchase a product without being reps) are far more than the reps, so a ratio of 1:10 is normal and probably on the conservative side.
In scams like this the ratio can be 10:1 or more, i.e. almost everyone who buys a product becomes a rep.
I joined last month- i have no success – no “recruits”. My friends – do not have the money to join – and now – the monthly fees begin.
I was intoxicated when i joined – i remember giving my credit card and thats about it – how can i get out of this and or see what I signed for commitment on my credit card…anyone know??
If you’re not interested in recruiting people and participating in the pyramid scheme, then it’s probably time to call your credit card company.
Either way, getting out of the company is extremely easy, if that is what you desire to do.
If you bought the product and also chose to be a representative, which provides you the licensing to market WorldVentures’/Rovia’s product, then you have an easy opportunity to eliminate the monthly payment and benefit from the deeply discounted prices on vacation packages.
If you do desire to take advantage of the opportunity that you have been given, get back with your sponsor and tell he or she that you are their responsibility. As your sponsor, it is their responsibility to help you in any way possible to get your four people to buy the product (which is travel).
And if your sponsor did take advantage of the fact that you were intoxicated, I do apologize on their behalf because that IS NOT how we do business in WorldVentures/Rovia.
Also, if you do wish you withdraw from WorldVentures/Rovia, get back with your sponsor. He/She should be able to instruct you how.
And give the sponsor the chance to talk you out of it? Muahahahahaha.
I am not setting you up to have your sponsor talk you out of it. I am not here to talk you into or out of anything Pam. I am just providing you with supported information from an individual that has the credentials to help you in your en-devours with WorldVentures.
Your sponsor doesn’t seem very helpful so if you need any help with getting out or staying in, I can provide the help.
@Oz
I agree with you that the representative side of this company is a pyramid scheme, because the only way you make money is by selling memberships. But, do you think the membership only side of the company is a pyramid scheme?
You’re paying for membership that allows you to use a third party service that can’t be used elsewhere. Exclusive service gives you discounted trips.
If you don’t get a single other person to join, you’re spending $860 for the first year and $660 every year after that on the membership. If using their exclusive booking engine leads you to $860 or more in savings the first year, it’s a good buy.
You could make things easier on yourself and recruit people, but you don’t have to in order to receive some benefit to the program. You just don’t receive the greatest benefit unless you become a rep. So to me, membership side = Costco, Rep side = pyramid.
Love to hear your thoughts. Hopefully you’ll respond to me even though I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
There are no buts. This is a review of the World Ventures MLM business opportunity, not third-party travel services.
Then the whole thing’s illegal, as you can’t be “sorta illegal”, which is like “sorta” dead or “sorta” pregnant.
@Oz
So you have no opinion on the travel side of the company because the review is only for the business opportunity side?
@Chang
I think the reason WV has dodged legal sanctions is because it is “just legal enough.” You can make $20 as a rep by selling a membership.
That $20 isn’t conditional on who the person who bought a membership tells->who they tell->who they tell->etc. That person that buys a membership doesn’t have to recruit anyone, they could just be using the company for wholesale travel.
You’re right though when you say that the greatest business benefit is from recruiting 4, who recruit 4, who recruit 4, blah blah blah.
If you are to be successful within this company (beat the failure rate, which by definition in the article is more than $684 a year), you have to
(1) sell tons of memberships to people who don’t recruit others to reduce their fees and just use the exclusive access to Rovia at face value (implausible, since that would be over 1,200 memberships at $20 a piece), or you have to
(2) screw people over by involving them in becoming a rep, which that side of it cannot be sustained (one of the comments above states that a successful strategy would stick you with recruiting aliens by year 3).
When that side can’t be sustained, I think to myself, what services does their rep fee provide them? Nothing.
Option 1 of being successful with things is unrealistic and option 2 is pyramid scheme. It seems like they’ve stayed out of legal trouble because they have option 1 in their compensation plan. That’s what the review points out as well.
On a website called “BehindMLM”? Whodathunkit…
Product value in an MLM opportunity only becomes relevant to me if the product actually has something to do with the business model.
If I can just recruit people, sell them on the income opportunity and earn recruitment commissions – the attached product is irrelevant.
There is no travel side of the company.
The travel is handled by a different company.
There re only two “products” sold by WV none of which is travel.
@Oz, It’s obvious these people are not listening to you. WorldVentures is not a real product. A real product is gym membership, real estate, cellphone service, or even real estate investing.
How does one get paid in WorldVentures? Recruiting others to join. There’s no services being done or products being sold. It’s a illegitimate and quite possible illegal activity to take part in.
If folks are so eager to invest their money for the long haul, then why not invest in some real assets. I’ve read horror story after horror story about WorldVentures and to see that they have no legit product or service to make off of I know not to waste my time on it.
K.Chang- from the first link you posted, if the answer is ‘yes’ to each of the following questions, then it is a “buying club”-
1) Is the organization a corporation?
Partnership?
Unincorporated association?
Other business enterprise?
(2) Is the enterprise organized “for profit”?
(3) Does the enterprise have “members”?
(4) Is the primary purpose of the enterprise to provide benefits to members (i.e., discounted goods or services)?
(5) Do these benefits result from, or are they promoted as stemming from, the cooperative purchases of goods or services?
Maybe I’m way off base here, but does WorldVentures avoid “buying club” status by answering ‘no’ to #2–not organized “for profit”? That may sound ridiculous, however, I believe all the revenue goes towards commissions, so the company itself earns no profits.
The founders, Azcue and Nugent, share the top spot in the company and then one has the left spot and the other the right (with everyone else branching off below them).
Now, if I’m wrong and they are a “buyer’s club” by legal definition, why do they still exist?
You’re right, that sounded ridiculous and constructed. “For profit” and “not for profit” is about something else, about the MAIN purpose of an organisation, not about where the profit ends up.
It makes more sense to test it against point #4.
Here you can answer “no”. The primary purpose of the enterprise is NOT to provide benefits to members, but to provide profit for its organisers.
The business side of it acts only as a disguise for a chain recruitment plan, where the organisers and people close to the top will earn most of the financial gains.
“Why do they still exist?”
They haven’t been shut down yet. And members have continued to join them, so the plan hasn’t collapsed either.
While it is not possible to answer your question without an outright audit of the company’s finances, typically 30-70% of the revenue goes toward commissions, not 100%.
Furthermore, a buyer’s club *can* be for Profit. PriceClub/Costco is one such. The difference is in PRIMARY PURPOSE, not profit, as M_Norway already explained. Furthermore, if they claim non-profit, they are not registered as a non-profit org. Thus, this may just be you trying to figure out an argument FOR them, instead of BY them.
As for why do they still exist? “There are bigger fish to fry” is an often given answer. Police can’t catch every criminal, and so on and so forth.
Just my 2c:
Registered as one no doubt.
Yes.
Yes.
No. The primary purpose of any MLM income opportunity is to generate commissions.
No. The profits are generated via the sale of memberships to the opportunity itself. Travel is irrelevant as it’s provided by a third-party and not commissionable.
Thank you oz, it was extra curious why they offer discounts to people under 25. Assuming it would be easier, and questions wouldnt be asked.
thanks again for saving me from throwing 300$ away and losing friends from recruiting them to this bs. Now im spending my time unrecruiting my friends that have already been victimize by this LEGAL scam
Why not invest the 50 a month membership fee into a Roth IRA once you hit retirement you can use that money to live on a beautiful island. In the meantime you can travel very cheap to anywhere you want to go. With a little research you can find cheap travel.
Me personally I don’t have the time it takes to convince someone to join. I am a small business owner the only way to succeed is long hours hard work dedication. Don’t fool yourself even Donald trump puts in long hours.
The majority of Americans only have vacation once a year anyways. Reminds me of all that time sharing people are now trying to get rid of.
Just curious; If this is by defination a “pyramid scheme”, then why after over seven years in business with most people who’ve signed up either failing and dropping out; why aren’t they shut down by now?
I’m curious how they could have lasted this long if what they’re doing is illegal.
Law enforcement on pyramid schemes is reactive. World Ventures have been country hopping around for a while now.
A lack of action in no way justifies or proves the legitimacy of the business model, the business model alone defines what World Ventures is, that being an obvious recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
As for illegal and legal, that’s neither here nor there and up to the authorities to determine.
Wow, yea I joined this company in mid feb after doing all the research,watching all the videos and getting excited about it. I’ve talked to some in my upline about it and try tell me it’s the greatest thing they’ve ever done.
Yet in my world, I’ve done all steps, recruited no one and have lost about $500 so I’m getting out before the loss grows even more. I’ve also had people that know me and trust me scoff me and even quit talking to me because of this.
This is a very cleverly crafted trap. I’m usually of sound mind on these things but it got me
They just settled out of court on their lawsuit… And they just recruited my damn sister 🙁
http://courtecom.dallascounty.org/pav/ (Ozedit: case number is “dc1109451”)
I heard world venture from my friend.
And I was brought to the presentation one day. I was totally shocked when I saw the buble gum presentation. Where it actually showing travel business involved trillions of USD world wide.
And, so on and on the presentation. I was tempted to join. Maybe because of the presentation itself and excitement about the whole thing. And the slogan as well “Make Living….Living”
I was planned to invest at that point because it looks workable. But I took a few days back home and cool my mind and do some research.
And,here I am, discovered WV is a pyramid scheme…subject to some assumption from my research :-
1. World Venture is selling membership that provide cheap travel packages but they don’t seems to make money from that. Where they earn from? Our membership fees and monthly membership? What I see is they make money from new members.
2. Like one of the guy said (forgive me for not remembering your name) when the market is fully saturated, WV is not gonna get new members that much anymore. How do they sustain those high ranking executive? This is not answered for sure. Monthly membership is good enough? Well, I don’t think so.
3. Those executive representatives are trying to persuade us to join by saying follow our path, we can do it, so does you. But does that works for everyone. I think this is the biggest lie… that’s doesn’t work. It’s like not every one will be able to persuade others to join. I can foresee many end up by losing friends or families…
This 3 basically is just my opinion. It doesn’t 100% right. If you do agree with me please post up. If you don’t, feel free to write up as well.
This is not a debate, but I just wanna know am I close to the truth.
Of course they make money from it. It’s an annual fee though so new recruitment is always required (otherwise thouse at the bottom lose money and don’t pay their fees).
Move to a new country (at which point we usually get an influx of “WV is not a scam!” type comments here.
Of course they are. See above.
Read my article on “Travel MLMs”, which explains why they don’t go together.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/genre-analysis-does-mlm-and-travel-make.html
As someone who actually participated in this I can tell you it is a pyramid scheme (scam). this was in august of 2012.
It is all good until your friend gives you the how to guide for selling it and you realize your “friend” just played you, and you see line for line the statements your “friend” just used to convince you it is a good idea.
But that proves it worked, right? 😉
I see that some fans of this are citing that Ernst and Young’s Young Entrepreneur award picked it as a finalist in 2010 in the Southwest region (one of two dozen or so) “and therefore it can’t POSSIBLY be a scam!”
One simple counter-example: Equinox, No.1 on Inc 500 fast grower and cover of Inc in 1996, closed by FTC 4 years later as pyramid scheme.
@Oz, It’s obvious these people are not listening to you. WorldVentures is not a real product. A real product is gym membership, real estate, cellphone service, or even real estate investing.
How does one get paid in WorldVentures? Recruiting others to join. There’s no services being done or products being sold. It’s a illegitimate and quite possible illegal activity to take part in.
If folks are so eager to invest their money for the long haul, then why not invest in some real assets. I’ve read horror story after horror story about WorldVentures and to see that they have no legit product or service to make off of I know not to waste my time on it.
@K.Chang, FTC closed down Equinox, and these folks still don’t realize WorldVentures is a pyramid scheme. No legitimate products
My ex-girlfriend got recruited by her best friend, into the WorldVentures cult. She got sucked in and lost perspective.
I lost her as a result as she would try and force me to recruit my friends, and we would argue.
It appeals to uncaring superficial types, the types who turn on the television and see people as either beautiful or ugly, the types who don’t mind screwing their friends. Her and her friend will no doubt lose money and friends.
You could lose ur girlfriend by arguing over other issues such as finance. If u have a heart to share good things with others but not “recruit” them as such u would do better.
Its not about YOU only, its about the other individual…Hunting for a scapegoat is very unkind & self-centred…
I’ve just attended the talk as well, July 2013.
There is the MLM side which commission is paid on recruitment. if you get 4 other to join then monthly payment of usd $60 its waive for you.
A few things which I notice its not mention before since the first post. Maybe just implemented to encourage people to join.
1) They said out of the monthly $65, $50 is going into a Rovia account which you have, so per year you paid $720 and $600 is in your account, which they say indirectly you save for travel.
2) For Rovia there is a price pledge that they guarantee, if you find any price lower for the same destination and dates, they will refund you and even give you the trip for free. This is how confident they are. So if we are member we can make use of this privilege we are using the Rovia search engine.
In this case even if you dont recruit, but u join as member just to get the lowest prices possible, it’s ok, isn’t?
I want to ask all those members who are already in this, do you know of this privilege? if yes, I would like you guys to do a random search on any flight only on Rovia using your account say from any country in america to asia and then compare this with other search engine like expedia, kayak, zuji, travelocity.
If the savings very great? if yes, then of course its worth joining as a member (looking at the travel deals only, doesnt matter you recruit or not) else its another MLM scam.
Agree?
Rovia != World Ventures.
What Rovia do and don’t do is irrelevant, as far as World Ventures go all you’re buying from them is affiliate membership. Said membership does little more than permit you to sell the same membership to other people, receiving a commission each time you do.
Choosing not to recruit doesn’t negate the fact that you can ignore Rovia entirely and, so long as you pay your own monthly membership fees, earn a commission based on how many people you’ve recruited into the scheme.
@Oz you got a very bad impression of MLM. although i am dislike MLM as well, but personally i feel that introducing (recruiting) people to this program, it does benefit them by having the lowest price guarantee for travelling.
I reckon as long as people benefit from the program, it doesn’t matter if its a MLM program or not.
any WV members out there did a comparison in the price between Rovia and other booking sites, it will be useful for everyone to know. Thanks!
Whether they benefit or not is irrelevant. WV pay out commissions on the recruitment of new affiliates and have no product of their own (Rovia != WorldVentures).
You state “it does not matter” if we’re talking MLM, however when we consider recruitment commissions and no product, it most certainly does matter.
Bad or good impressions of MLM aside, World Ventures fits the definition of a pyramid scheme.
Then you’re ignoring the LEGAL aspects… the law says you CANNOT pay on recruitment. That would make the thing a pyramid scheme.
@Oz, K.Chang, so the WV is illegal!
Any WV member wan to state your view? seem like that they are doing quite well
I was approached by a friend about investing either as a rep or just for the travel discount. I have spent hours devouring information, what did it for me is
1. the cost of the initial fee plus $660 a year in membership fees, as I am not an avid traveler there is no need, I am pretty sure I can use my corporate and/or AAA or groupon if I need a vacation that badly;
2. their income disclosure statement nailed the head on that coffin.
I am not a fan of “cult” persuasion and prefer to keep my friends, my friends/family are not my financial ladder, that would make them rungs under my feet. Not cool.
Very glad to say I turned this person down, if they shun me for life, then I escaped two drains. HA!
This MLM is not for everyone. If you don’t travel much and your friends are the same way then this is not for you.
If you have some money and love to travel and your friends do the same then this may work for you.
You get discounts, the money you invest monthy payments, becomes rovia bucks and can be used toward your vacations.
When you work for your employer you will never pass him up. You are at the bottom of the pyrimid, Its the most elaborate pyramid sceam ever put together. You work your but off eat crap when corporate cuts your pay, you do what you are told and if you dont like it you quit are get fired with no pay. But when the CEO gets fired he gets $10million bonus. What are the % of being the boss/ CEO after all the crap?
But if you get involved in an MLM you are the boss and you show the product and if that person likes it good if they don’t good also, you just keep working. Just like your job! You just keep working!
Then from the down line thru sales (vacations and other spending, shopping thru rovia) just like a none member does, (vacations and other spending, shopping) just the money is spent thru other places, the funds don’t go thru WV/Rovia you’re new company, you get payed from the volume of sales coming from your down line..
Very simular to your and my job, you work the bottom line take care of the customers, work to pass some one because you work harder and you get a small amount of money more, and a pat on the back.
Look at the older people around you at your work place, and ask them if they can retire on the little crapy fixed retirement? SS will be no more soon, so don’t even think that will help you when you turn what ever age they decide to make it…
MLMs are for some people and not for others. Just make shure you understand what you are promoting and you like it..But they work and can make you a happy camper, and it can be done while you work your 40 hour job……Best wishes for all!
^^^ Waffle waffle waffle. Meanwhile World Ventures is still a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
I’m a little confused. Can you describe a pyramid scheme?
Why not read what a MLM lawyer wrote?
(Ozedit: link 404, removed Dec 2019)
Specifically Chapter I Section C
@Anthony
At it’s simplest, you’re paid to recruit new affiliates, who are then paid to recruit new affiliates. The MLM aspect kicks in when payments are made over multiple levels.
Travel has nothing to do with World Ventures as a business opportunity. All you do is recruit new affiliates and therein lies the problem.
Point #5 is about legitimate MLM companies. The rules will not apply to generally accepted standards for fair trade, even if a company temporarily slips out of correct ratio for something, e.g. the company is about to build up a sales force in a new market.
But it’s not about “constructed legal excuses” either, e.g. “We would eventually have become legitimate, we only needed to set up a HUGE sales force first”.
The rules I have set up there are the correct definitions for promotional pyramids, “product based chain recruitment systems”.
1. Since the illegal parts are about participants recruiting other participants into a plan, you can separate retail sale distributors from the ones who have the right to recruit other participants (if a company has 2 different types of distributors).
2. “Gives consideration” is simply about ANY type of payment, directly or indirectly, that the player will have to pay for the right to participate in the plan (“pay to join”, “pay to play”, “pay for your paycheck”, “pay for promotions”, etc.).
The “consideration” can be disguised as over priced products, over priced training, over priced marketing materials, and so on. The “MLM exception” will only apply to fair trade practices, i.e. disguised payment systems won’t make the plan become more legitimate.
* TRADE is about an “exchange of values”.
* WORK is about an “exchange of values”.
Recruiting a true sales force (distribution chain) and training them will have some value for a company. Recruiting a chain of recruiters will only lead to the company eventually being shut down, and it shouldn’t be compensated either (the work doesn’t hold the value it needs to hold to qualify as legitimate).
Discounts, rebates, coupons, vouchers and similar systems do generally not hold any value on their own. PRICE is simply a “trade mechanism”, not a retailable product or service.
An income opportunity is not a retailable product or service. It holds no “exchangeable value” in itself.
So WV signs up (travel agents) for rovia via pyramid scheme. Agents get bonuses for signing more people thru WV. Rovia pays residule for booking vacations thru them, all the way thru the down line?
No, WV sign up WV affiliates – that’s what they get their bonus paid out of and on. Rovia affiliate membership costs nothing.
True or not, it’s irrelevant to the WV commissions structure, which pays out solely on the recruitment of new WV affiliates, paid out of WV affiliate membership fees.
Just thought it’d be worth pointing these out:
First, Rovia is only 5 years old: rovia.com/about_us , so I’m not sure why the review states it’s 25 years old.
Second, found this at the bottom of the DT site:
dreamtrips.com/rewards
“WorldVentures, DreamTrips, Rovia and the WorldVentures, DreamTrips, and Rovia logos are trademarks of WorldVentures Holdings LLC.”
After looking at WV and Rovia trademark ownership, it becomes clear that Rovia is owned by WV:
tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4804:14j9d1.3.3
tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4804:14j9d1.4.1
Both state:
However, on the Rovia site, it states:
Of course, Trademark ownership does not necessarily mean that Rovia LLC (if it exists) is owned by World Ventures LLC, but I think it is safe to say that Rovia and WV are one and the same.
Perhaps Rovia is its own, non-MLM business entity, while WV is the MLM business (the only other example I can think of is LoC and Amway).
That being said, does it increase or decrease its legitimacy? No idea.
I don’t believe the Rovia website is talking about Rovia LLC.
Here’s the pre-approved marketing spiel Rovia send out to their travel partners:
You can google any of the above phrases and verify this yourself.
Putting aside corporate structure, they’re obviously not the same as there’s Rovia partners around that have nothing to do with World Ventures.
At best WV is a subsidiary of the holding company that participates in Rovia’s partner program. That Rovia is owned by the same holding company (if it is) does not make them the same. World Ventures as an MLM opportunity is still independent of Rovia, and provides no product or service of its own.
It’s the same as investment groups that buy up multiple MLM companies. This doesn’t mean they all become the same company – they still each function independently.
Didn’t Troy Dooly announce that World Ventures is merging with Numis Network?
K Chang,
That was the marketing spiel. In reality, Numis is closing its MLM business model and moving its binary structure to WV (maintaining downline integrity). Not really a “merger,” just the best way to put it without the reps freaking out about Numis closing its doors.
That makes sense. Rovia might be the service that was started in ’08, but Rovia LLC is the actual company. Thanks for clearing that up.
I Googled this exact phrase though: “Rovia, LLC is a 25-year old travel company with offices in South Carolina and executive offices in Plano Texas” and the first one was a rep-created LinkedIn page (I know this because the “company website” leads to a replicated WV landing page), and couldn’t see anything on a Corporate level. I guess it’s irrelevant though.
I wasn’t aware of investment groups that buy up MLM companies. It may be possible that Rovia and WV are their own independent subsidiaries of a holding group.
This may be significant though: they have the same exact Corporate Address:
Bottom of any Rovia webpage: Rovia
Bottom of WV terms & conditions:
http://gs1.wpc.edgecastcdn.net/80289E/media/1/PDF/unitedstates_us/termsofuse_us.pdf
I don’t know too much about corporate business, but I would assume that subsidiaries of a holding group usually have their own offices, especially if they have nothing to do with each other.
Actually, I just checked the WV contact page. They even have the same phone number.
http://i.imgur.com/P4DlYUU.png
http://i.imgur.com/Jng90m5.png
(WV info from worldventures.com/contact/ )
Something that may clear it up though:
I think WV Holdings, LLC is the holding group you were talking about that owns both WV and Rovia, LLC. It may be possible WV Holdings purchased Rovia at some point.
Usually yes, World Ventures is far from usual though. Typically these schemes do everything on the cheap, so long as they’re affiliates are out there recruiting new affiliates that’s pretty much all they care about.
You stated before that Rovia has partners that are not WV. Can you explain what the partnership entails, or share some information on who the partners may be? I can’t seem to find anything.
Back when I wrote the review they let anyone sign up as a partner. Now they’re calling them “customers” and “corporate services”.
I haven’t been keeping track of Rovia since I wrote the review, back then they were just another travel portal anyone could sign up with and attach a business too (like Travelocity). You can still sign up as a customer but the resell aspect of it seems to be toned down/removed.
Fact remains though, they are a third-party to the WorldVentures opportunity.
It’s still there if you poke around a bit:
dreamtrips.rovia.com/rovia/aboutus
“Clients” and TRSs are partners.
It’s possible they basically bought Rovia and merged it.
I think YTBI merged a travel booker, something-Connect. When YTBI was getting hammered by multiple states, the owner of the travel booker bought the company back and separated it from YTBI (then went on to provide service to TVI Express scam… *sigh*)
Rasheed,
Thanks for that interesting analysis of the Numis merger. Frankly, I couldn’t understand how Numis Network could survive in a sustained weak metals market, especially with the guarantee to buy everything back, unless they were backed by the Fed!
Online, the “merger” was really hyped in some of the groups I’m in, as a positive thing. I didn’t realize that Numis is out of business. The presentations were enticing, considering that you could use your monthly WV payments for vacations, and all the top leaders easily recruited enough lambs so the monthly fees didn’t come out of their pockets, during the post merger blitz!
I guess the problem is that you need to cash in your vacation bucks before WV goes under.
As a successful business owner and experience in MLM, World Ventures is like any other direct sells company. It has a product (Dream Trips) and offers services, via Rovia to it’s customers.
Every business offers a product…even Zumba lol. However, I feel some individuals feel opportunities like this are “too good to be true” when it is easy as 1+1=2.; it’s not that complicated lol.
Furthermore, MLM companies, such as World Ventures, have created more billionaires than the regular 9-5. Donald Trump owns a huge MLM company and Warren Buffett has been noted as the smartest investor in the world…oh and he owns # MLMs with the similar structure as World Ventures.
Honestly, who are we taking advice from…successful individuals or our broke brother-in-law? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want his lifestyle! I believe you have to do what others don’t today to have what they won’t tomorrow. Thank God for MLM companies!!!
Oh…btw…a Pyramid Scheme is the exchange of money for products and services that you don’t get. If WV was a “pyramid scheme”, the Feds would have shut it down a loooooonnngggg time ago (Federal Trade Commission, 2013).
No, it isn’t.
That it does, however WorldVentures itself pays commissions only on the recruitment of new WorldVentures affiliates.
What Rovia do or don’t do is neither here nor there.
Affiliate membership to WorldVentures is not a viable MLM product.
No, it isn’t.
This is the “we’re legal until the authorities shut us down” argument. It fails because a business model and compensation plan define an MLM company as a pyramid scheme or not, not the authorities shutting it down.
Being shut down is the end-result of an MLM company’s business model and compensation plan.
I will just say, that my husband and I have been members for 14 months now and world ventures has done everything that was promised to us.
you guys are a bunch of idiots to think that this is a “pyramid scheme” and that it Is still in operation in its 8th year. you obviously are not educated enough to know what a pyramid scheme is. with world ventures we have products and we have services.
we are both retired parents now because of world ventures. How could this still be in business if its a pyramid scheme?
It has been validated by the Federal Tax Commissioners and Ernest Young, if you don’t know who that is, they validate the books for Miss America! LETS GET A CLUE!
The people it does not work for is those who show nobody and that makes it a scam to them. is it a scam because of that?? NO! they were just lazy and did nothing!
@Celeste
Pay you to recruit new affiliates? Of course they have… that’s their business model. So long as you keep recruiting why wouldn’t they pay you?
I’m just going to leave the irony of the above statement as is.
Delicious.
How sad.
Evidently because people like you keep recruiting new affiliates into the scheme.
ORLY? They validated World Venutes compensation plan and business model did they? Tell me more!
don’t recruit any new affiliates. Yes, we’re all well aware of how pyramid schemes work.
My mind is now clear of fog on this matter about this MLM and others like it. You have stated and emphasized the obvious with your research. Thank you for the review Oz. God bless you.
And Bernie Madoff did so for a decade. So what? Just because they’ve done so doesn’t mean they will continue to do so. EVERY scam victim trusted the scammer… right up to the moment they found they were scammed. Your logic holds no water.
Madoff that right back at you. “Appeal to age” fallacy.
We quoted and interpreted definition from MLM lawyers. You can’t seem to point out what we got wrong. Are you sure you’re using your head? Seems you’re using your heart to do a head’s job.
Bull****. Someone (themselves?) nominated them for “Young Entrepreneur” award sponsored by E&Y. They didn’t even win (just “finalist”)
Get your own facts straight, please. It really makes you look like a raving lunatic waving around irrelevant facts as “validating” your viewpoint.
No worries Mario. Glad you found the information of use.
just ran across this thread, this is an argument that will never be won. Some folks believe this stuff with an infallible passion, while others see nothing but a rip off. Hence the often used comparison to religion, whoops I mean cult.
Law is what is written, but that doesn’t make it right. There are so many more sinister “legal forms” of business I can’t imagine MLM being anywhere near the worst of them.
Oz, Chang you are talented in your knowledge of law, and what is and isn’t;however, the world would be a better place if your skills were applied to something that actually mattered.
There is no argument. World Ventures is a recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
Oz, has the company changed at qll since this review? I only ask because I know one of the top earners with WV, and he actually teaches his team to lead with the value of their customer program.
Never mind…lol
I don’t believe it has. Customers = affiliates.
You sign someone up and earn a commission out of their affiliate fee. They then do the same.
From memory there are travel commissions but they are third-party and have nothing to do with the MLM side of the business, which is pure recruitment and membership fees.
Warning people about potential scam is not “something that actually mattered”? Is that like a polite way of saying “why don’t you go bother someone else and leave us alone”?
Frankly, I was bored of all the drivel a long way back in this thread and the mud slinging about WV being a pyramid, and the misinformation as to what a pyramid actually is.
If you actually read the terms and conditions of a person operating as a business it is all geared towards the sale of the product of DreamTrips. Where the problem would have been is in if a person decides to operate and sell the business package alone. None of us operate in this way and the rules state that it will not happen either as there will be no benefit to anyone.
You only get paid on the sale of the product (much like insurance brokers do. oh dear, are you going to go after them too??)but if you only sold the business side there is no commissions earned at all. The only way that you will get paid if you are just in the business side of the program is if you sell the DreamTrips membership and you will only receive your commissions if you continue to do so every month of at least one membership.
So in a nutshell, product sales are commissionable but the sale of the business package alone is not. The safeguards have already been put in place to prevent us from being ‘one of those funny shaped things’!!
The binary compensation plan is also a solid one as it compensates those who build teams.
The money does not all flow to the top as it would in a pyramid scheme but only to those who work hard to build their business. Lazy people are only compensated for the effort they have made and not from everyone else.
Hence someone can have joined the travel club and decided to make a go of it at least 4 years after their sponsor joined and can still earn more than him/her. I think that is fair.
FYI… The proper definition of a pyramid scheme is “the exchange of monies between parties where there is clearly no product with the promise of a high return on the ‘investment'”. (Ozedit: offtopic derail attempt removed)
And what is “DreamTrips”? Access to something else… otherwise known as a membership subscription.
Oh and if you sign up to it, you can also get paid when others also sign up for it… on multiple levels.
Just like… y’know, a pyramid scheme.
Access to third-party travel discounts is not a viable MLM product.
No. Plenty of pyramid schemes bundle crap with membership to mask the pyramid nature of the scheme. The MLM travel niche in particular is notorious for such behaviour.
By recruiting large downlines who pass up commissions… to the top. Yep, got it. Totally not like a pyramid scheme.
Teams of recruited affiliates… yep, still not a pyramid scheme. Y’huh.
Whether it’s fair or not has nothing to do with the price of fish in China. You’re paid to recruit, that’s the problem.
Try the FTC:
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/inv08-bottom-line-about-multi-level-marketing-plans
Wrong. You’re describing a “pure” pyramid scheme. Modern pyramid schemes have evolved into “product-based pyramid scheme”.
Glad to have found this post actually, some of my friends wanted to recruit me in this program, I knew it was a pyramid scheme but I went on the internet to look it up just incase.
If only some of my friends would be wise enough to quit this rather then trying to scam others to join this pyramid scheme scam.
Network marketing is taught at Harvard because it is a powerful and predictable business model.
Think about what you’re saying guys. Do you really think the government is going to let an illegal operation stand? Many cannot sustain themselves because of their “products,” thus the FTC comment posted above. Many organizations are very solid.
Amway was taken to civil court not criminal on the grounds that it was a “pyramid scheme” because it did not sell its products over the counter, not because it was illegal. Amway won and is still in business today. No other suit has ever been brought since.
In a true network marketing organization, people in the downline can make more than the upline. The fraudulent companies come to an end of themselves. Stay away from those. The mis-information here is funny.
^^ What does any of that have to do with World Ventures being a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme?
That’s a faulty argument to make. By your logic any crime is legal unless you get caught – which makes no sense.
All that’s relevant here is World Ventures business model. Chatter about Harvard, “organizations”, and Amway is just smoke and mirrors.
Geez, not THAT old chestnut again.
You must be a real newbie at this if you’re trying to use that old (discredited) argument.
MLM is not “taught” at Harvard.
The MLM business model is “discussed” at Harvard as one element of business studies course/s.
MLM exists, so it forms a legitimate part of any business related subject matter.
“Today ponzis are the subject of the lesson and tomorrow we are discussing multi level marketing is NOT the same as “MLM is taught at Harvard”
Seems to be a wise method. Try to follow your own advice yourself, rather than telling other people to do it? 🙂
You repeated some series of “beginner level arguments”, the type of arguments people will tell to beginners, so called “half truths”. It would normally end up in the spam bin.
No it isn’t. You’ve been reading a lie that’s perpetuated since 1984… By a network marketer whose name is Beverly Nadler. Who also perpetuated the lie that MLM created more millionaires than any other industry.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/07/mlm-mythbusting-did-harvard-business.html
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/11/mlm-mythbusting-no-mlm-did-not-create.html
Long time since I’ve been here but thought I’d drop back in …
A few things Oz. Please correct me (as i’m sure you will!) if this paraphrasing is incorrect:
For an MLM NOT to be a pyramid it requires (amongst other things) that an actual product be sold. You have made it clear in your posts that you don’t think WV sell a real product because membership itself isn’t a real product.
My question is:
Do you say that VW dream trips/ membership (or whatever its called) is not a ‘real’ product necessarily because it’s membership based or rather because that is a common front for pyramids?
IMHO
The test about VWs “product” and hence its relationship to the business model should be whether the product is viable as a stand-alone retail product outside of the business opportunity.
1. Does the ‘product’ offer any value for customers who don’t participate in the business?
2. What is the ratio between customers and distributors?
3. Do you need to purchase the product in order to sell it?
Whether it’s membership-based or not would seem ultimately irrelevant (except, perhaps as a warning sign). One could easily hypothesise about an MLM based on gym membership that wasn’t a pyramid (even though I’ve never heard of one, and doubt it exists).
I have some ideas about testing these but don’t want to waste my time if they’ve already been done.
to retail customers (non-affiliates).
Having a product alone is neither here nor there. Every modern-day pyramid scheme has a product or service ruse.
That WV’s memberships are access to discounts, which are not a valid MLM product in and of themselves, is a secondary issue.
You and I both know the answer to this.
If we take Norway as an example, 95 of memberships were held by affiliates (5% retail). That’s clearly pyramid scheme territory.
WV do not disclose these figures (Norway’s were released by regulators) but with the same business model deployed globally, I’d peg the global retail figure well under 10%.
WorldVentures does have a product that is available to be used by members as well as non members. WorldVentures also carries a large non-member, retail customer base via Rovia and DreamTrips Marketplace.
“Available” doesn’t cut it. Also access to third-party discounts is not a ‘product’.
Proof?
It was 5% in Norway and likely to be similar globally. Well into pyramid scheme territory.
The sale of travels was rather insignificant to the sale of opportunity, when both Norwegian and Swedish consumer protection authorities analysed it.
* Cost of the opportunity (first year) NOK 6,200
* Travels purchased NOK 500 (per average member)
NOK 6,200 is about $1,000 – $1,050
NOK 500 is about $80 – $90
I’ve just 3 quick comments to make:
1. You wrote: “There’s no point saving hundreds of dollars in travel bookings if you’re just going to lose it in membership fees.”
Reality: The membership fee paid gets converted into DreamTrip points which you can apply to featured DreamTrip Reward vacations.
#2. Worldventures is NOT a scam or pyramid scheme because there is an actual product/service being sold.
If you buy a membership to Sam’s club are you realizing savings by buying in bulk? (Yes, you are) Is the Sam’s Club membership an actual product or service (Yes, being a member gives you access to the store–online or brick & mortar) Worldventures buys vacation packages in bulk and sells them to its members–passing the discounts on, that’s it.
So they partnered with Rovia to provide the service, I’m not sure why that is relevant.
#3 You wrote: “Do I have what it takes to beat a 99.98% failure rate?”
Yes, I’ve seen statistics outside of this article that say that there is a 99% failure rate for MLMs as an industry BUT, when I looked at the disclosure statement for WV and like you, saw that the failure rate is about 74%, I figured it was a good business investment because I’ll take a 26% chance of success over a 1% chance, especially when I have clear guidelines on how to do it.
The allure for an MLM is the low cost of entry and exit into the business which is way better than going all out and starting a traditional small biz. What your article doesn’t mention is that the upline team is supportive and it’s something I haven’t witnessed with other MLM opportunities like Mary Kay or Avon, that’s a huge benefit in and of itself.
Regardless, the money paid in fees is still a cost.
False. Firstly plenty of pyramid schemes have products.
Secondly World Ventures sell access to discounts. Access to discounts is not a valid MLM product.
Ugh put down your copy of pyramid scheme excuses 101 please.
Sam’s Club is not an MLM company, what they do or don’t do is irrelevant.
Because WorldVentures themselves do not sell a product other than affiliate membership.
Said membership is commissionable = pyramid scheme.
False. A third-party purportedly purchases the vacations, World Ventures only provides access to said discounts.
Not sure who you’re quoting but it’s not me.
Subjectively irrelevant. “Upline” is not an entity, it’s an individual.
You entirely failed to address WorldVentures’ recruitment commissions, which are at the heart of it being a pyramid scheme.
Fail.
That argument has been repeated over and over again by several companies in MLM, but the argument itself is flawed. It may convince you (if you repeat it over and over again), but it will not convince a court.
Generally speaking, you can’t point to a single argument like “it has products”, and use that argument to determine that a business is operating legally.
That method will only work inside a cult, used by the cult members to convince themselves. It won’t convince “normal people” (unless they REALLY want to believe in it).
“Most recent decision = FTC v Burnlounge”
BurnLounge had actual products. That didn’t save it from being halted by an FTC action. The last appeal was handled by an appellate court in June 2014.
The illegal part in a pyramid scheme is the pyramid scheme itself = a chain recruitment system where participants pay to participate in the system (pay directly or indirectly), where they can earn rewards directly or indirectly from others doing the same ( = paying to participate in the plan).
Lack of retail sales outside the network itself is one of the symptoms. It can also be described from a different perspective as “high internal consumption, motivated by the right to earn commissions”.
For BurnLounge, the Moguls had quite different “purchase pattern” than the non-Moguls. They bought the most expensive “membership packages” that would offer them the right to earn higher commissions, while the “consumers” generally bought the inexpensive ones.
That just means you ran into a good upline. It says NOTHING about the company itself.
There are at least TWO parts to evaluating a MLM company: how well the company runs its side of the operations… and how the affiliates/distributors/participants are running their own side of the operations.
You can only witness one side, but you have very little data on the other side and must look for more yourself.
What you’ve done is you looked at your side, and somehow convinced yourself that the coporate side *must be* as well run as the side you witnesses, without actual evidence to support such conclusions.
Chang & Oz if you feel it and know it with your whole being that WV is a scam and a pyramid, both those names if they are labelled on a company Feds and whoever in the security sector will jolt from their seats to hunt, arrest and close the company.
Chang why don’t prove this to this forum by giving Feds a tip to arrest Worldventures????
Feelings have nothing to do with it, WorldVenture’s compensation plan makes them a pyramid scheme.
Not that I presume to know how regulators work inside and out, but that’s just bullshit right there.
Nothing needs to be proven, just look at WorldVenture’s compensation plan.
Whether “the feds” move to shut WorldVentures down is neither here nor there.
You think the Feds move at our beck and call? Hahahahaha. Who do you take us for? LEO insider? We’re just guys with computers and some brain cells who don’t take company PR spin for granted.
Your fantasy world doesn’t exist. In the real world, it takes months, even YEARS for the Feds and law enforcement to act. Go check the history of TVI Express, Zeek Rewards, TelexFree, etc. And we’re talking about the US.
The fastest I’ve seen LEO move was Colombia shutting down WCM777, and that’s mainly due to a TV report.
Prove what to who? You seem to not understand this website at all. You may want to read Oz’s “about” section again.
As per disclosure, I am a WorldVentures representative, MBA from the Booth School, University of Chicago.
This has been a long thread.
Worldventures reps sell memberships (a product: a service) to a travel club where the prices are significantly cheaper. People buy it without becoming a representative.
Conclusion: the product (a service) is real and has value. This is assertion is fact and is not debateable.
If offering a service at the cost of an initial fee and monthly fee is an improper practice, much of the wholesale and service industry uses improper practices.
Next:
A rep can work ALONE, ENTIRELY AVOIDING the developement of her/his downline/binary tree and still make money via personal sales bonuses, “cycling,” and qualifying for each and every incentive the compensation plan offers, including promotion to the highest rank of International Marketting Director. YOU NEVER NEED TO ENROLL ANOTHER REPRESENTATIVE.
Not to mention, non-representatives still qualify to have their fees removed. An incentive-based reward for referrals is legal, commonplace and accepted in the service industry. Do research. This, too, is no debateable.
And:
EVERY SINGLE incentive/bonus in this business is based on “Sales Credits” and subsequent “Sales Volume,” never on the recruitment of new representatives. Rather, sales credits are only attributed when a representative sells a membership package to an individual.
Moreover, a rep’s “monthly sales volume” is a combination of a rep and her team’s efforts at selling Dreamtrips products. The size of a representative’s binary tree/network/team/binary organization is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT.
The publically available Detailed Compesation Plan is publically available, and can be understood by anyone with an eigth-grade reading comprehesion level.
Note: A rep’s (or team’s) sales volume is a combination of intial product fees, monthly fees of dreamtrips membership holders (regardless of network/rep status) AND the purchases of PHYSICAL (non-service) PRODUCTS offered at DreamTrips’ Marketplace.
@K.Chang:
You seem to be stuck on the idea of membership fees generating the income of others within the network. You claim this is a fundamental principle of a “pyramid scheme.”
To which membership fees are you referring, that of a DreamTrips Package or the initial fee to become a WorldVentures representative?
Your response to this question is pivotal. If you believe the former to be true, your claim is unsustainable, cannot be proven, and neglects the administrative costs of providing subdomains to reps and paying for outsourced sales trainers for WorldVentures reps.
If you believe the latter to be true, you neglect Rovia’s position in the Rovia-WorldVentures partnership. Monies accrued in this fashion facillitate the relationship between the partners. The fiscal details of that relationship (unfortunately) are private between the two entities.
In closing:
The founders of WorldVentures were finalist for the Ernst and Young award in 2010. Past winner of the award include: Michael Dell of Dell Computers (1989), Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com (1997), and Reid Hoffman and Jeff Weiner of LinkedIn Inc. (2011).
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has never had a complaint against WorldVentures or Rovia.
World Travel Awards consistently recognize Rovia as the world leading travel search engine.
WorldVentures even has Oprah’s stamp of approval, one of the most coveted stamps in any industry.
I trust the vetting and credibility of these organizations which voluntarily praise WorldVentures. The world trusts them as well, which substaniates the company’s continually expanding international presence.
Last:
Much of the grudge you hold applies to ALL outsourced marketing companies that do not offer a tanglible products. It also applies to companies that do not conduct their own marketing.
This is problematic for a number of reasons and illustrates a poor grasp of several business concepts. You lack credibility.
I fully anticipate you’ll attack my credibility as well. You will not offer factual information against my claims. Your delivery will be emotional rather than analytical. And you will be perfectly content after you “tell off that evil independent representative.”
Thanks,
(P.S. pardon typos….I’m tired and sleepy. lol)
That shows is a severely flawed understanding of consumer behavior, marketing techniques, business doctrine, and the policies regulating the field per FTC in the U.S.
You claim this: Roughly the same people who bought the product also decided to be a rep, therefore WV in pyramid scheme “territory.”
Take a moment and read what you’re saying here. And read what you’re neglecting as well, the 5% who get every benefit of Dreamtrips without being a representative.
Is that 5% penalized? No.
Does WV require its Reps to be Dreamtrips Customers? No.
Does WV require its Customers to be Reps? No.
Is there any monetary or tangible incentive which renders buying the product AND representative status in conjuction?
No.
Is it impossible that the people of Norway valued the product and wanted to market it as well?
I challenge you to find an indisputable connection between the two entirely separate opportunities: business and product.
Ask these questions. Evaluate your claims without tossing in your opinion or guessing “global retail figure[s].”
@Mr. MadeupFacts
Memberships which provide access to third-party discounts.
The rest of your waffle is entirely irrelevant in the face of WorldVentures paying out recruitment commissions.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time sparing us the bullshit “non-debateable” garbage.
Access to third-party discounts + recruitment commissions + MLM = pyramid scheme. That’s the only non-debatable equation that matters here.
Selling access to discounts is not a valid MLM product. Nothing is being consumed or used.
What your selling by defacto qualification (see Norway ruling, which revealed that pretty much the only people buying access to travel discounts are affiliates participating in recruitment commissions – for the purpose of qualifying for said commissions), is access to a compensation plan that pays you to recruit.
Nope. If the FTC investigated WV in the US, they’d draw the same conclusion.
Access to third-party discounts that only affiliates participating in a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme, for the sole purpose of qualifying for said commissions, is a no-brainer.
Nope. Learn how to read. The figures from Norway (which are obviously going to be reflective of World Ventures’ global operations) are massively skewed toward affiliates being the only ones purchasing access to third-party travel discounts – again, for the sole purpose of qualifying for recruitment commissions.
Whether they are or not is irrelevant to the fact that:
a. access to third-party retail products is not a viable MLM product and
b. 95% of WorldVentures’ revenue is derived from affiliates participating in a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
The rest of your waffle is entirely irrelevant in the face of the above facts.
PS. Stay on topic. Comments waffling on about “market this” and “market that” and attempts to derail by introducing other companies into the discussion will be marked as spam.
When studying for your MBA, did anyone take the time to point out the difference between the words “CAN” and “DO”
Talking about what reps CAN do is irrelevant.
What they actually DO is what matters.
The fact that WV not only lets it’s reps do what they are doing, but encourages them to do so only compounds its’ problem, as has been demonstrated by the Norwegian decision.
FTC says:
“Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It’s best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors [read Independent Representatives] you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products”
Worldventures Says:
(Ozedit: Nobody cares what World Ventures says, as per the FTC you quoted (I bolded the relevant section) – World Ventures is a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.)
I can´t believe you guys that you are keep screeming WV is a scam for several years now (some of your posts dates back 2010)…
You are constantly repeating that WV is a pyramide scheme cos they have no product – but for me – travel packages at discount prices that they provide to their customers are very good, versatile and intriguing products.
(Oh I forgot to mention – yes I´m a member of WV)…why?? simply because I love to travel…
I could give example after example of their travel packages… their service (like rate shrinker, dreamtrips promise etc.) is verified… I got a friend who travel around the world more than 200 days per year.
He checked the Rovia search engine (for plane tickets) and he found out that Rovia search engine is at least as good or even better (dreamtrips promise) as other search engines he used before….and guess what – after he checked everything he sign up.
Just rateshrinker (which automatically search a better price for you) gives him so much added value that all the entry fees are nothing compared to what he saves ($ €) now.
You have also mentioned that solicitation and enrollment with the membership fee is a pyramid scheme. From where do you expect that all the bonuses will be paid from??
There is no free lunch in today´s market…
… and if you look at their membership fees:
– initial membership fee (let´s say gold membership) is 200$ which I received right away back into my account- and I could spend that money immediately,
– monthly fees that you paid (50$) you also receive back (after a year of enrollment) – I look at this as monthly saving for my vacation.
The upside of all of this is that if you enroll 4 members – your monthly fees are waived (look at it as WV thank you gesture) – and what wrong with that?
Even though that you enrolled 4 members and you don´t paying your monthly fees anymore, WV pays you 600$ (each year) which you can spend on your Dreamtrips – how cool is that??
So please explain me in what kind of pyramid scheme I got involved??
I did´t lose NO money, the products (travel packages) are great.
(Ozedit: Offtopic marketing spam removed. Self-nominated circle-jerk awards don’t legitimize a business model (compensation plan.)
What about BMW car bonus – Would you (as a CEO of BMW) let your brand (for which you work for decades) to be branded with the pyramid scheme company??
About a income disclosure;
– in the WV you don´t have only representatives who join WV – but you also have members (who are just using the products/travel packeges)…so take that into account when you try to explain WV income disclosure.
In the WV compensation plan it states that representatives are prohibited to solicit other WV members to become representatives (for example- when they meet on the vacations)…and those representatives who did that were banned from WV immediately.
In the pyramid scheme compensation plan your downline can´t earn more money than a sponsor, right?
WV compensation plan is binary system (right leg, left leg). In order to get your monthly commissions you have to have 30 people in each leg.
Lets take for example that a sponsor have 100 people in right leg and only 20 people in left leg. (His downline member have perfectly aligned L&R leg 30/30)…so..if my logic serves me correctly – downline member is entitled to the monthly commissions, while his/her sponsor isn´t…
Sound like a perfect safety switch for NOT TO BE A PYRAMID SCHEME.
You don’t matter.
WorldVentures offer access to third-party discounts. Access to third-party discounts is not a viable (stand-alone) product or service.
All that’s being sold here is WorldVentures affiliate membership, which qualifies participants to recruit new affiliates and get paid.
You could, and it’d be entirely irrelevant – seeing as WorldVentures only provide access to discounts on third-party products and services.
From the sale of products and services to retail customers. Not membership fees to join a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
No they’re not. You just steal the funds from those who you recruited each month. Somebody still has to foot the participation fees bill.
You do know this has nothing to do with BMW the company right? Any more so than the computers World Ventures use getting upset they’re using their brand of electronics to run their operation.
I removed the marketing spam because the “awards” crap you posted is just circle-jerk industry awards. You nominate yourself, pay a fee and either win or get your affiliates to vote for you to win.
This in no way legitimizes or overrides a compensation plan. And it certainly shouldn’t enter into the equation when evaluating an MLM business opportunity.
Everyone has access to the comp plan = affiliates.
Also having 5 non-affiliates and thousands of affiliates is also irrelevant. And watch out for sneaky “we count affiliates who don’t pay fees (ie. they’ve left the company) as retail customers” bullshit too.
False.
Nothing you’ve said negates the fact that affiliates pay WorldVentures fees to qualify to earn commissions when they recruit new affiliates. Meanwhile nothing is being marketed to or sold to retail customers.
not to mention that if one of the 4 drops out, they have to scurry to find a replacement or they have to pay again.
FYI.
Calling WV a pyramid scheme is essentially correct. When you join or signed up for the business, your told that you recruit 4 members and your membership dues are waived as long as those 4 members stay active members in the Biz.
You are compensated in different ways but there are degrees of recruiting membership and selling their products.
So yes they actually promote a kind of pyramid model in their documents in the Biz.
I think its harsh to label them a scheme because that has a demeaning nature, and it is associated with old school tactics of false promises that’s been exercised by unscrupulous people over the years.
I remember as far back as the 70’s where companies were taking money and trying to recruit with a scheme that only rewarded those few who were at the top levels. Those just entering the scheme got burned when these companies fail apart.
These schemes typically were just money transfers and where short lived leaving the lower ranks with nothing but false promises. So be careful here because with legit company’s who pay out monies from the top down are not all bad. Its just another way to earn money.
WV having no real relationship in travel deals except buying in bulk to me is irrelevant. Are they legit is the bottom line.
I find no fault in a company who uses a pyramid type payout to there down line as long as they are doing as promised.
There are tons of companied using this style of recruitment or selling. This is what they promote and if you are that kind of sales person wanting this type of a job, who cares! MLM has been around a long time as well as WV.
I suspect they will be around for a long time in the future. They are global with a tremendous following.
Legit? Yep I think so! Pyramid type pay outs…Yep whether you call it that or not it is.
Folks if you don’t believe its not, you need the go back and look at the business model they promote, you know where it says it starts with you and your recruitments fall to the left or right and their recruitment falls the same, etc….yep it’s a pyramid looking payout.
Whether I would call it a scheme, with what that has meant in the past, well I wouldn’t but that’s me.
Final thought….If your into travel and discounted fees and such, like the recruitment and income model, go for it….There are plenty of na Sayers out there like those here who won’t.
Know its payouts and look at it’s opportunity, and make a decision that your income will be based on your efforts, bad or good.
It’s possible you may start and put it on the back burner, but its also possible you will get the discounted travel deals, and maybe and make a ton of money. Just keep and open eye, this is what MLM is or direct marketing is. Your choice!
^^ Spoken like a true pyramid scheme apologist. There is nothing remotely legitimate about pyramid schemes like World Ventures.
Horseshit.
I was apart of 12 daily pro and readytoachieve.com. Both werent around long and been shut down.
This program has been around for almost a decade and its still growing! Unlike other programs I mentioned, I actually know of someone that’s doing very well with this.
Personally I think you should take WV off your list of scams, between success stories and the longevity of the company I think that alone proves its not. Oh I’m not a member yet, but I planning on it.
Only because people like you who have no problem ripping off others keep joining.
Neither of those have anything to do with World Ventures being a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
I’m not surprised, by your own admission you seem to be attracted to scams.
How do you know that? It was banned in Norway and Sweden, so it doesn’t grow in any of those countries.
It doesn’t seem to grow in the U.S. either, but I haven’t checked any local factors (it you join, it will of course grow in that local area).
What you don’t seem to realize is the MLM portion didn’t start until a few years ago.
Back in 2006 their tagline was “World’s Greatest Travel Search Engine”
In 2008 it changed to “the future of travel”, and they actually have seller of travel permits out of FL, NV, and WA, but NOT TX.
TVI Express moved into the US in Late 2009.
The WorldVentures as you know it today was launched January 2010. That’s when it adopted the tagline “where people are making a living… living!” and it emphasized the MLM model as competition to TVI Express…
When TVI Express got hit with the cease and desist in 2010 as a pyramid scheme, that’s when WorldVentures started taking off, along with several competitors like CruiseMatrix, Pyxism, and ClubSeaBreeze, and others.
And it’s hardly the first travel-based MLM… YTB was founded even earlier at 2001. It was sued out of multiple states (esp. California by then AG Jerry Brown) between 2006 and 2009. It lingered on before declaring bankruptcy in 2013 and was bought up and reorganized by someone else.
So, your “appeal to age” fallacy is just that… a fallacy. There are many exceptions should you care to look for them. You simply don’t know enough about your own company to make an effective argument.
i will follow the discussion from here. some very informativ content in here !
very short i will add my experiance: in greece i was introduced by an agent and i didnt join.
their rethoric skills and persuation methods were fantastic and demonstatration with ipad etc… couldnt see myself in profit with a simple calculation.
before i signup i want to find at least 2 people who are interested by simply telling them the facts about wv. none were interested so quit.
but what i really want to see is people talking about their backoffice technology which in my eyes is impressive.
the dynamic multi tier affiliate system which really is a comission generator only if the product is from “real value” i would participate.
one very high representative showed me how the leg system works in his account- its amazing but it was 1 year ago and i cannot recall everything.
only the fact that until now i only worked with static tier3 level comissions from my business (financial transaction volume). i need to know more here..
(Ozedit: snip) its a pyramid scheme OZ, the best one I have seen and proud to be part of (Ozedit: snip).
Goodness,
if WV is the best you’ve ever seen, you really do need to start getting out more.
5 years later – have they been shut down yet?
They have in a few countries.
Since they are still functioning, does that make them a valid pyramid scheme?
No such thing. A pyramid scheme is a scam.
That people are still being recruited into World Ventures is neither here nor there.
You should see what these guys are doing in China…. Brainwashing has never been easier. from a community that was, only until recently allowed to travel.
They are operating illegally in China as they are not registered. So all payments are via Hong Kong and in USD.
My eight year marriage has busted up because of the incredible brain washing techniques used by world ventures two con-men.
Cannot wait for the Chinese security bureau to catch up with the leaders over here.
Interesting thread – and it goes back so far! I was looking into World Ventures to compare it to another travel related company. This has provided some great information.
I will check out the website to see if anything has changed much – any chance to update the write up if we find things have changed?
Sure. World Ventures are still paying recruitment commissions last they were in the news though (Norway/Malaysia).
You guys are getting me worried. But thank you for this thread.
I found out more about Rovia. That company just doesn’t make any money… quite the opposite… they only spend! And spend way more money than they have.
I guess with the vast majority of their members coming from China, they are safe to keep going this way for some time.
First of all, I do not disagree with OZ regarding WV, but I do have one question for OZ.
In your opinion, OZ, is there such a thing as a legal and legitimate network marketing company, or in your opinion, are all network marketing companies illegal pyramid schemes?
If you’re selling products to retail customers, you’re in a legitimate MLM company.
If you’re primarily getting paid to recruit new affiliates (or affiliates are the majority of your customers), you’re in a pyramid scheme.
Okay, good to see you do recognize that there are legitimate MLM companies, and yes, there must be a retail element!
“If you’re primarily getting paid to recruit new affiliates (or affiliates are the majority of your customers), you’re in a pyramid scheme.”
Yes, recruitment programs are at high risk to be deemed pyramid schemes, and most likely will always be considered such! The jury is still out, however, on whether affiliates being the majority of your customers constitutes a recruitment scheme or not.
With many companies, there is a lower price advantage to being an affiliate, so why not be an affiliate to purchase a product you really want and use, at a lower price?
No it’s not. Go look up Vemma and Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing.
That’s what the preferred customer class is for.
MLM companies that don’t offer discounts to retail customers on autoship and generate the majority of their revenue from affiliates are pyramid schemes.
Okay, before I respond to your last comments, OZ, I want to clarify a point for any previous posters that are of the school of thought that because a company offers ‘a product or service’ for sale they are not an illegal pyramid. Or, put another way, “we have a product/service, so therefore we are a legal MLM company.
That is just NOT true. Having a ‘product/service’ in and of itself does not make a company a legal MLM company, and therefore not an illegal pyramid scheme. I just wanted to clarify that!
Further to my comments above regarding this, I would like to draw your attention to what I believe to be the most recent action against a company by the FTC, and that is FTC vs Herbalife (Ozedit: Snip, see below.)
@global6s
This is offtopic. Furthermore, you’re welcome to search coverage here on BehindMLM of the Herbalife settlement.
In a nutshell, Herbalife settled because they are a pyramid scheme with little to no retail. Had they of gone to court they’d have been destroyed.
And the most recent FTC action is Vemma, which is still ongoing. Please read up on these cases before even beginning to argue that retail doesn’t matter in MLM.
FTC investigations into Vemma, BurnLounge, Fortune High-Tech Marketing and Herbalife were all initiated over concerns there wasn’t significant retail sales activity taking place.
This has nothing to do about personal consumption by affiliates, which is legal. When it’s done at the expense of retail sales volume, this however is a strong indication of pyramid recruitment taking place.
PS. Do not waste my time with idiotic non-MLM examples about windows in an attempt to justify pyramid fraud.
Excuse me! I should have said the most recent concluded action against a company by the FTC was FTC vs Herbalife. And, nowhere have I suggested that retail doesn’t matter in MLM!
My point is the settlement agreement in the case of FTC vs Herbalife did not change the rules regarding ‘personal use’ (except for Herbalife) that have been in MLM law now for several years.
I have in fact read up on the cases you mention, and have in fact referred you and your readers to legal considerations (Ozedit: Offtopic derail attempts removed)
I never mentioned anything about personal use. This is a strawman argument you created and then proceeded to argue against.
Affiliate recruitment with little to retail activity defining an MLM company as a pyramid scheme has nothing to do with personal use.
And instead of relying on “legal considerations”, try reading actual case files. Many of which are cited in BehindMLM’s coverage of MLM related FTC actions.
You clearly haven’t read up on the cases mentioned or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Anything further offtopic that isn’t directly related to World Ventures will be marked as spam.
(Ozedit: If you wish to discuss Herbalife or any other MLM company, do it in an article discussing that topic (search bar is on the top right). Offtopic spam removed.)
Where are all the haters now??
WV about to (marketing BS removed)
@MindfulBiz
What a pyramid scheme is “about to” do is irrelevant to the fact that it’s a pyramid scheme.
And if you wish to discuss other companies or engage in pathetic attempts to legitimize a pyramid scheme through association, do it elsewhere.
The card is already in circulation. Having an actual product for sale with no “recruitment” of any sort attached nullifies all of your arguments now.
I’m sorry what? Some payment card is a product?
And the 1990s called, they want their regulatory standards back.
Having a product is no longer relevant, as every MLM pyramid scheme these days does. You need to be selling a product/service to retail customers.
As the Norwegian Gaming Board revealed, WorldVentures has little to no retail sales. Ergo it’s a pyramid scheme.
And lol at the attempt to “nullify” years of pyramid scamming with “hay, we finally have a product in 2017!”
You can’t legitimize a pyramid scheme short of a business model overhaul, and World Ventures don’t appear to be doing that any time soon.
Why is a travel company touting some “payment card” as a product any way?
So affiliates can run around the internet touting 1990s regulatory “we have a product!” cliches?
Actually no. There are thousands of partners in the dining and entertainment space and the company was planning on issuing a simple rewards card to members in order to keep track of travel points they receive every time they frequent one of these places.
They ended up spending over $110 million and developed the first smart card of its kind that does it all. Robert H from Shark Tank consults on the security of it.
Which has what to do with paying a fee to join WorldVentures as an affiliate and getting paid to recruit others who do the same?
The question was asked why the card came to be. The card has nothing to do with becoming a member or a rep it’s purely for retail sale by reps. The large majority of card purchasers will be Joe Public that has no affiliation to WV on any level.
The review you’re commenting on concludes World Ventures is a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme based on its business model.
If you wish to discuss irrelevant marketing spam do it elsewhere.
The card (which is not even out yet so GG on baseless predictions) has nothing to do with WorldVenture’s MLM opportunity, which has been operating as a pyramid scheme since day 1.
If you don’t wish to address that and instead publish marketing spam, Facebook is where you want to be. You should be there.
I have a legitimate question, as I’m here as an objective observer.
If this company is an illegal pyramid scheme, then why are governments around the world, especially USA, allowing it to remain in business for 12+ years?
You’d have to ask the governments of the world.
Norway is the only government I’m aware of that shut World Ventures down.
Traditionally they haven’t really operated in the US in any significant capacity, although that could change with Vick Strizheus and David Wood trying to get it going.
The problem with fraud it creates victims.
But MLM creates self-blaming victims, i.e. either they are too ashamed to complain, or they blamed themselves for the failure, not seeing the system had been rigged against them.
It’s very much like the Matrix: if the victims don’t see themselves as victims, living within the delusion, are they still victims?
But I’m talking about MLM in general. WV has been mostly flying under radar of regulators by marketing travel, not recruiting, as well as skirting regulations by exploiting international boundaries.
In many Asian countries, they claim NOT to be selling any travel at all… they just sell membership and souvenirs. Any transactions are between members and their US HQ. (See Taiwan and Malaysia)
When the travel industry in Taiwan called them “Crazy Travel” and petitioned government ban in 2015, WV reined in their affiliates and launched “travel local” campaign in taiwan and went low-key.
In China, similar thing happened. In 2015 individual provinces in China caught some affiliates going full pyramid scheme: recruit recruit recruit! And caught a few.
“WV DreamTrips” got declared “Internet Pyramid” by China Bureau of Industry in November 2015. And they went full underground, but they didn’t go away, as there are further reports in 2016 and March 2017, that Chinese government had to make a public announcement again.
So WV *is* illegal in China as well
(citation: NOLINK://finance.sina.com.cn/chanjing/gsnews/2017-03-15/doc-ifychhus1378216.shtml )
But WV was able to go underground or keep quiet when affiliates attract attention of local reps, and do some PR thing to divert attention, or skirt laws by exploiting international boundaries.
That card is called FLYE, and it’s been a total disaster for WV. Millions have been lost on it… they sold it, unready and not working properly to their reps, ripping those people off.
Instead of paying for the card, most intelligent people are using Android Pay or Google Pay which are free.
Also, as of April 2018, the Get 4 Pay No More program is ended (grandfathered for those who joined prior to April, but you must still always have 4 people…i f one leaves, you must find another one or you’ll be paying your monthly again).
Even worse, since September of 2017, WV has not been paying their reps the commissions, residuals and dream car/home payments they worked for and are owed. They are also millions in debt to vendors that they haven’t been paying either.
Check out Glassdoor to see what corporate employees are saying…. massive monthly layoffs. Open talk of bankruptcy. Continual fleeing of C level officers after seeing the true financials (3 since January of 2018). No cash on hand. Nugent paying corporate payroll with his personal funds. Double IMDs leaving.
They didn’t even make the DSN 2018 Top 10 (but they continue to lie about making $2 Billion since 2015).
Any news regarding Worldventures? Last reply was 10 months ago.
I’ve been “rookie investigating” and one of the things I’ve noticed was the following:
In the Direct Selling News website (which I don’t really know if it is reliable), Worldventures has gone from $926.6 million in revenue in 2016 from $377 million in 2018 having completely disappeared from the 2017 list. That’s a 60% revenue reduction in 2 years!
Why is that? And why are they gone from the 2017 DSN list?
By this time top “leaders” said the company would blow up everywhere and it was only a matter of time before everyone knew about it and those who were “entrepreneur and better than the common sheep” would get rich if they got on board early enough.
Seriously, the more I dig in, the more I realize how ridiculous this is.