AISPA’s Ashok Bahirwani is completely misguided
I was forced to start this update today with the above proverb after reading various news items which were not only factually incorrect but in most case was an attempt to place before the readers/viewers old wine in a new bottle.
This is the case of churning out old news in new packaging. Was this an attempt of a frustrated adversary?
I ask myself a few questions. Why over the last couple of days have the Speakasian Panelists been bombarded with so much disinformation about the impending investigation of individual panelists by the authorities and the seizing of their accounts?
Is it to spread panic amongst the panelist family? Is this a desperate attempt by the enemy to influence the authorities against SAOL?
Thus is the opening tone of All India Speak Asian Panelist Association’s (AISPA) President Ashok Bahiwani’s latest update published on their website.
And fair enough, albeit Bahirwani could look a bit less cultish by referring to anyone negatively reporting on Speak Asia as ‘the enemy’, but I digress.
Working for Speak Asia’s members, it must certainly be frustrating to see things misreported in the media. Good on him for addressing the misreporting and getting some truth out there.
However, after making his corrections, Bahirwani then launches into some obviously ridiculous diatribes of his own.
Why chastise the media when you yourself are no better?
Here are the choice take away points from Bahirwani’s latest update… and why he’s utterly misguided and wrong.
I ask myself, has there ever been a case in the history of independent India, when employment has been generated for over 20 lakh people within a short period of 10 months, has this ever been done by any Government, semi Government, or any NGO.
Probably not, because ponzi pyramid schemes are illegal. By having no retail product and paying members commissions for recruiting new members to the scheme, Speak Asia experienced unprecedented growth in India.
But that doesn’t mean it’s not an illegal ponzi scheme.
Attempting to paint the actions of the regulators and authorities as some sort of jealousy is ridiculous, Speak Asia’s business model is what it is and is the sole reason they are in the courts today.
I ask myself, how is SAOL a fraud that it is been made out to be? Here is a company which had regularly paid their panelists without fail till 12th May, 2011.
Because paying panelists does not legitimise the ponzi scheme business model. Even if tomorrow Speak Asia were allowed to resume operations under an unchanged business model, it’d be mere weeks, if not months before the entire operation collapsed anyway!
Some payment has to flow through a pyramid scheme, otherwise they don’t grow. The illegality stems from the fact that nothing is really being sold and all the company is doing is shifting money from those recently joining the company to those who have already joined.
Given that a 1:1 ratio of payment between new members and existing members wouldn’t attract anyone, this payment ratio must then deliver more than those who join put in. The end result is that you need, at the very least, two new members to deliver a return to one existing members (usually more).
Even with two new members having to cover the recurring commissions of one existing member, and then two new members being required for those two new members and so on and so forth, eventually the model requires so many new members that it eclipses the entire population of Earth.
This, and this alone is why Speak Asia has not been able to continue it’s business operations. Anyone with the slightest mathematical inclination should be able to understand this.
The company has not been able to pay their panelists since 12th May 2011, not because they do not want to pay, but because they are not being allowed to pay.
And let us look at why Speak Asia aren’t allowed to pay. As Bahirwani notes,
the entire case of the EOW is based on one, YES ONE, solitary FIR filed by a disillusioned individual going by the name of Mr. Khosla.
Kkhosla complained he wasn’t getting paid and following this FIR being filed, an investigation was launched into Speak Asia. In the process of this investigation it’s inevitable that Speak Asia’s business model would come under scrutiny.
Now as I’ve mentioned earlier, all there is to the Speak Asia compensation plan is that
- There is no retail product being sold.
- Money is merely shifted to existing members from new members joining via recruitment commissions.
That’s it. There’s no hidden complexities, no additional clauses, no deeper information. If you want to understand the Speak Asia business model, then merely understand those two points and you’ve got it.
In light of this Speak Asia’s bank accounts were frozen as the business model is a blatant illegal pyramid scheme in its current form. Not because they were or weren’t paying out people.
Thus the argument that ‘we can’t pay anyone because the government seized our accounts, it’s all their fault!’ is completely ridiculous.
If the police investigate an illegal drug ring and seize equipment that is vital to the continued operation of said drug ring, would it make any sense that the drug ring complains that it can’t produce illegal drugs because of the police’s actions?
Speak Asia’s financial operation as a pyramid scheme is no different, and entirely illegal. The seizing of their bank accounts effectively prohibits operation of the business plan.
Now if a court clears them, then by all means unfreeze the accounts and let Speak Asia bumble down the track to inevitable collapse when it’s members can’t find enough new recruits to feed the machine.
Until then, enough with the nonsense about how Speak Asia cannot pay anyone. This is not why they are being investigated and it’s not why their accounts were frozen.
Anyone claiming otherwise is severely (and possibly deliberately) misleading the public and showing not only great incompetence but a demonstrated clear lack of understanding of the regulatory problems Speak Asia are facing.
Lastly, there’s the matter of the ‘revolutionary business model‘;
What amuses me no end is everybody wants to hang SAOL by the first visible pole without even trying to understand the revolutionary business module.
The only crime that SAOL has possibly done is that they have been ahead of their time, much ahead.
Not understanding the business model, are you kidding me? It’s the exact understanding of the business model that has allowed for such investigations into Speak Asia, the company’s CEO’s to go into hiding and the freezing of any and all bank accounts associated with the company.
If you want to understand Speak Asia’s business model, as mentioned earlier, this is all you need to grasp;
- There is no retail product being sold.
- Money is merely shifted to existing members from new members joining via recruitment commissions.
If you understand in plain English those two points, then you understand Speak Asia’s ‘revolutionary‘ business model. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to your face and taking you for an idiot.
Oh, and one more thing, Ponzi schemes have been around since the early 1920’s – there is absolutely nothing revolutionary about them.
Finally I’ll leave you with Bahirwani’s closing thoughts;
This has unfortunately resulted, in robbing over 20 lakh Indian citizens, of their basic right to seek gainful employment and is in gross violation of their basic human rights.
Whilst it is true that 20 lakh Indian people have been robbed, fortunately it’s got nothing to do with the government or the criminal investigations into the company.
If anything, the longer the authorities let Speak Asia continue their operations the more people would have been sucked in before the mathematical certainty of the company’s implosion.
Then of course everybody would be blaming the government for not doing anything earlier. As it stands, 20 lakh people getting sucked into a pyramid scheme is already too much and let’s hope under Speak Asia no more do.
The attempt to pin this on the government is merely the misguided defense of those not willing to accept that Speak Asia operate on an unsustainable platform.
As a panelist, when you participate in an illegal scheme you pretty much forfeit your right to the return of that money if it can’t be recovered (say for example the CEO siphons it off to India).
Despite their claims, Speak Asia cannot pay you out until the criminal investigations are resolved into the company. Otherwise the government are potentially letting a criminal entity operate whilst under investigation.
Naturally in light of this Speak Asia will do everything they can to wedge you against the government, as it takes the heat off them and allows them to pursuit the legitimization of a business model that is clearly illegal for a reason.
The larger it grows, the more lives it ultimately destroys.
That, my friends is the cold, hard truth of the matter.
Once again I commend Bahirwani for providing daily updates and correcting the media but enough with the bullshit and misleading arguments, reasoning and statements.
The position you are in within the Speak Asia panelist community should not be abused or misused in order to serve the needs of a company seeking to utilise a fundamentally flawed business model.
And it’s high time you accepted this.
A case has been registered against the Company and its officials/associates by Hyderabad EOW under sections 120B and 420 of IPC and sections 4, 5 and 6 of the Prize Chits and Money Circulation Scheme (Banning) Act, 1978.
The Company must clearly tell about the genuine total income earned upto August 31, 2011 from sale of aggregated survey panels in international panel exchanges (as per explanation given by CEO Manoj Kumar during press conference held on May 16, 2011).
Merely boasting about having a big client list for the survey panels is not enough as clients can be easily acquired by selling goods/sevices at throwaway prices. If the Company has really earned genuine income by selling the survey panels, which is more than the subscription money collected from the Panelists, then it can confidently claim about not running a money circulation scheme.
Being Secy. of AISPA which claims to represent interests of 19 lakh Panelists, it is Mr. Bahirwani’s prime duty to get the relevant facts and figures from the Company and quote them to justify AISPA’s apparent blind faith in the legitimacy of the Company’s business model.
He can easily clear all the doubts regarding illegality of the Company’s business model during the press conference called by AISPA on September 19, 2011 in Mumbai.
Ah, the standard “dream stealer” blame game. It’s always someone else’s fault, it cannot be the company itself. Company itself is always right. Nobody else understands us except us. All hail the company.
Perfect signs of a cult.
@Observer
Wow that’s an interesting bit of information I hadn’t heard before. Any idea when Speak Asia are required to respond by? This seems far more relevant in establishing whether or not Speak Asia is a pyramid scheme rather than panelists complaining about not being paid.
He could, but you know he won’t. I imagin this press conference is just going to be a bunch of people harping on about how the company can’t be held responsible for not paying panelists if the government has frozen their money… but I guess we’ll have to wait till tommorow to see.
You, can not understand, because you are loser and you are only want to gain bread and butter in your life.
New era work is always mysteries you wait for some time and i must offer you to join and earn.. if your age is more then 40 than you re\member when call center work is started in India many of people are shouted like you.
Get well soon,Mamu
Jhapee… jhapee… japee.. .
Really…? After presenting my thoughts as best I can and the solid irrefutable reasoning behind them, that’s what you’re brining to the table.
Oh please, Speak Asia’s business model is not new era work. Ponzi schemes have been around since the 1920’s (and earlier, although in a less public light).
Uh what? You’re trying to compare Speak Asia’s pyramid scheme business model to call centre work?
Apples and oranges my friend… mangoes and guavas.
aispa is representing the panelists case.
aispa supports speakasia.
it is not aispa’s prerogative to explain the business model of the company .that is the company’s prerogative and they will do so ably in court.
aispa is holding a press conference to bring before the media the plight of lacs of indians who have lost their livelihood.
What’s there to explain? I neatly summarised for you in 2 points!
Will you or will you not acknowledge those two points are entirely what the business model of Speak Asia is about?
Also, don’t you think it’s disingenious to go around proclaiming Speak Asia’s business model as being ‘ahead of its time’ and ‘revolutionary’ without explaining to anyone what exactly it is?
If that’s all your doing, then it’s a waste of time.
The sob stories of Speak Asia panelists in no way validates or legitimises Speak Asia’s business model. Nor should it have any outcome on the bearing of the regulatory investigation or be taken into consideration when discussing the legality of what is clearly a pyramid scheme.
In a democracy the peoples voice always carries a lot of weight.[are you from north korea?]
the authorities [mca,rbi.judiciary etc] do not work in a vacuum ,they’re always picking up on the mood of the people and the need of the hour.
the discontent of the people has landed several top notch politicians in jail only recently.
these press conferences give us a platform from where we can wave out madly to the powers that be ,so that they take notice of our plight.
Uh, by all means let it carry weight but ultimately if the voice is in support of an unsustainable pyramid scheme which will financially destroy even more people if it’s allowed to continue, then what do they hope to achieve?
The sob stories of Speak Asia panelists in no way shape or form has any bearing on the legality of Speak Asia’s business model, the model itself stands on its own and is being put in the context of an existing legal framework.
In North Korea, you wouldn’t be able to put on your little show, whereas I believe your free to, but ultimately it’s irrelevant and pointless to do so in an attempt to legitimise a legally flawed business model.
Neither of those factors have any bearing on a criminal investigation!
What if a knife maker paraded their employees around claiming that they were going to be fired because knife sales were down, citing the illegality of murder as a primary factor?
Does that mean the judidiciary would re-evaluate the legal status of murder?
Speak Asia isn’t manufacturing knives and a pyramid scheme isn’t murder, but the concept your putting across is the same!
Your plight is to campaign for the legality of pyramid schemes. Only a complete knucklehead government would legalise them.
this may come as a surprise to you but you are not the indian judiciary.
in our democracy we do not hang people or corporates before listening to them.
saol has not yet been heard in any court .
nobody has a right to declare any judgement before the due process of the law .
what you think is entirely upto you and i can absolutely say with full conviction that you will absolutely not influence our authorities.[they don’t know you exist]
aispa on the other hand represents approx two million indian souls and has a clear chance of being heard.
By all means be heard, I never suggested otherwise other then stating that it was ‘just a waste of time‘ if the idea was to legitimise Speak Asia’s business model.
A model which is quite simple and illegal the world over for very good reason. The authorities don’t need to know I exist and they don’t need to take into consideration anyone’s sob story to analyse Speak Asia’s business model and ascertain if it’s nothing more than a pyramid scheme.
For the record, will you agree or disagree (if not in an AISPA official capacity, then in a personal one) that the business model of Speak Asia is nothing more than
This is a simple request which asks nothing more than a simple answer.
Except it is SpeakAsia’s business model that is in question, and that was what lead to its account being frozen. You can’t separate the two.
Plight of all the indians who got scammed, but chose to continue to believe in the scam in the hope it’s NOT a scam. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Dream on.
They are arrested instead.
Sure it has. Its lawyers argued for release of bank freeze which allowed extra 600 crore of money to leave India for Singapore. its lawyers failed to convince judge to dismiss the FIR, or the allow consolidation of cases. Its lawyers also failed to challenge the advertising ban. Need I go on?
What you meant to say was “SAOL has not been declared guilty of being a fraud and a scam”. It has definitely had its day in court… many times.
Except AISPA and SAOL’s lawyers, asking for judgment of dismissal BEFORE the trial started.
Of course not. So you’re wasting time here as much as we are, and you have even LESS reason to be here, since all you got is your “conviction” (interesting choice of word with multiple meanings) while we have logic and facts.
Clearly, you’re ran out of arguments, since you’re down to “Your opinion means nothing.” That’s an observation, not a refutation.
Except they’re on the wrong side. They should be suing SAOL as a group and HELP the government win, then they’ll get to divide up the money that’s frozen. Instead, they are out to delay and fight the government case as much as possible.
it’s early days yet.lets not get ahead of ourselves.
you are in the front row guys you get to see all the action in real time.lucky you!
time will tell who wins.
chang is right when he says all we’re doing is wasting our time here.
reminds me of ditzy uncle who was trying to shoo everyone off this site.
got to work for the press conference tomorrow.wish us luck!
Thank you for demonstrating your membership in cult of money. All who believe in SAOL will be saved and achieve great wealth. All who fight or denounce SAOL will be doomed to wage slavery. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Absolutely hilarious.
What’s next? Hunger strike? Demonstration in the streets? Riot? Self-Immolation?
If that’s the best comeback you got, (and thus far, you have seemingly given up every position you held about SAOL) clearly SAOL’s doomed. You’re left with nothing but faith.
A simple question with a simple answer… and yet still all anju can do is dodge it.
I hope the press give them a grilling tommorow over the same points raised here.
No doubt we can then all read about how the press ‘just doesn’t get it’ the next day in Bahirwani’s AISPA update.
AISPA are refusing to answer even the simplest of questions put forward to them, this is spin doctoring at its finest.
And if discussing Speak Aisa on BehindMLM is a waste of time, god only knows how much more a waste of a time it is to set up a press conference to try and convince the media that pyramid scheme should be made legal because people lost their livelihoods.
For all those supporting Speakasia.. and don’t understand Ponzi schemes.. here is a small illustration…
A Company lets call it NetM places an Ad, stating that pay 1 lakh and get a Honda City. It sounds too good to be true. A Honda City costing 9 lakhs, you get for only 1 lakh.
A person say Mr A, responds. He pays 1 lakh and what he really gets is 10 coupons worth 1 lakh each. What Mr A, has to do is sell it to 10 people and remitt the money to NetM. So somehow Mr A convinces 10 of his friends and he sells those 10 coupons and he gets a Honda City Car. Technically he has paid only 1 lakh and he got his Honda city. Remaining money was given by his friends who brought the coupon.
So the cost of Honda City is 9 Lakhs, Mr A paid 1 lakh and his friends 10 Lakh. NetM made a cool 2 Lakh over the price of Honda City.
Now Mr A’s friends who brought the coupons from him, would need to send those coupons to NetM and in return they’ll receive 10 coupons each. Now they’ll have to find 10 More people and in return they’ll receive each one Honda City. So technically each person here is paying only 1 Lakh and getting a Honda City. Cool. Eh? Now lets look at the numbers
Lets say 100 people Initially invest 1 Lakh in NetM. So the number of people at various level would be as follows
Level 1 -> 100 People
Level 2 -> 1000 People
Level 3 -> 10000 People
Level 4 -> 100000 People
Level 5 -> 1000000 People
Level 6 -> 10000000 People
At level 6, the number of people reach 1 Crore. Now it would be impossible for people at level 6 to get 10 crore more people who have the capacity to invest 1 lakh. And if it reaches Level 7, then there would be 10 Crore people who will have to find 100 Crore people which is entire countries population, and definitely 60% of Indians cannot even dream of 1 lakh rupees.
Now crores of people at level 6 and level 7 would be left with coupons worth lakhs each, which is technically of no use. This is the reason MLM is unethical and illegal in many countries.
So if you see this scheme from top, it looks brilliant. But at level 5 or Level 6 it collapses.
No it doesn’t. The All India NetM Association for panelists hold a press conference showcasing the sob stories of a few members and demand that the scheme continue after it collapses.
Then the laws of mathematics, who saw the press conference on television, cave in and decide pyramid schemes aren’t so unsustainable after all.
Everybody lives happily ever after and decks their houses out in Yug appliances and rainbows.
Proud to be a NetMian,
Jai yo NetM!
@Oz & K Chang … I apologize for posting huge messages here…
Now I’ll take another example. This is based on recruitment benefit
Example: A Company lets call it NetData, offers a scheme. I’ve taken Speakasia model here.
Invest 11,000 become member (Panelist) . What you get is you receive 2 surveys per week and on sucessful completion you receice 500 per survey. So in 1 month, you receive 4000 and in a year 52000. Cool.
Now you could recruit 2 sub-panelists under you, and for each subpanelist who joins, the panelist above him receives 1000 Rupees for each person. And after that who ever joins the subpanelists and under them, every member above them would receive 200 rs each, irrespective of how many people join in.
Here if we look, we see a HUGE opportunity to make money. By way of survey and by way of recruiting.
Lets take an example that in the begining 1000 people join the company and each member would be receiving 4000 rupees per month fixed. So the lure for more money would ensure that every member would get more person and try to make the chain bigger and bigger.
So if we assume that each member at the end of the tree added 2 new members each week, based on that please check these calculations
A1: Level 1 : Week 1.
B1: New Panelist Joined : 1000
C1: Total Panelist : 1000
D1: Total Income (“C1” x 11000) : 1,10,00,000 (1 Crore 10 Lakhs)
E1: Payout for surveys (“C1” x 1000) : 10,00,000 (10 Lakhs)
F1: Payment for referals : 0
G1: Amount Left with Company : 1 Crore
A2: Level 2 : Week 2.
B2: New Panelist Joined : 2000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each week)
C2: Total Panelist : 3000
D2: Total Income (“C2” x 11000) : 33,000,000 (3 Crore 30 Lakhs)
E2: Payout for surveys (“C2” x 1000) : 4,000,000 (40 Lakhs)
F2: Payment for referals : 20,00,000 {B2 x 1000}
G2: Amount Left with Company : 2.70 Crore {D2 – (E1+E2+F1+F2)}
A3: Level 3 : Week 3.
B3: New Panelist Joined : 4000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each week)
C3: Total Panelist : 7000
D3: Total Income (“C3” x 11000) : 7,70,00,000 (7 Crore 70 Lakhs)
E3: Payout for surveys (“C3” x 1000) : 70,00,000 (70 Lakhs)
F3: Payment for referals : 42,00,000 {(B3 x 1000) + (B1x200)}
G3: Amount Left with Company : 5.98 Crore {D3 – (E1+E2+E3+F2+F3)}
A4: Level 4 : Week 4
B4: New Panelist Joined : 8000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each week)
C4: Total Panelist : 15000
D4: Total Income (“C4” x 11000) : 16,50,00,000 (16 Crore 50 Lakhs)
E4: Payout for surveys (“C4” x 1000) : 1,50,00,000 (1 Crore 50 Lakhs)
F4: Payment for referals : 84,00,000 {(B4 x 1000) + (B2x200)}
G4: Amount Left with Company : 12.44 Crore {D4 – (E1+E2+E3+E4+F1+F2+F3+F4)}
If you use MS Excel, you could trace out this very easily and you could see that at level 17 onwards, this pyramid would fail as it would’ve reached 10 Crore panelist. After that no more recruitments would happen and company won’t be able to pay.
Speakasia is right now at level 11. So the balance sheet looks like this
A11: Level 11 : Week 11.
B11: New Panelist Joined : 1024000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each week)
C11: Total Panelist : 2047000
D11: Total Income (“C11” x 11000) : 2,251,70,00,000 (2251 Crore 70 Lakhs)
E11: Payout for surveys (“C11” x 1000) : 204,70,00,000 (204 Crore 70 Lakhs)
F11: Payment for referals : 107,52,00,000 {(B11 x 1000) + (B9 x 200)}
G11: Amount Left with Company : 1628.48 Crore {D11 – (E1+E2+E3…E11+F1+F2+F3…F11)}
If we take a Scenario where each person at the bottom level adds a 2 new member every month, then we need to multiply the value of “E# row” with 4000 instead of 1000. And in that scenario, the numbers at level 11 would be
A11: Level 11 : Month 11.
B11: New Panelist Joined : 1024000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each Month)
C11: Total Panelist : 2047000
D11: Total Income (“C11” x 11000) : 2,251,70,00,000 (2251 Crore 70 Lakhs)
E11: Payout for surveys (“C11” x 1000) : 818,80,00,000 (818 Crore 70 Lakhs)
F11: Payment for referals : 107,52,00,000 {(B11 x 1000) + (B9 x 200)}
G11: Amount Left with Company : 403.68 Crore {D11 – (E1+E2+E3…E11+F1+F2+F3…F11)}
And if you want to take scenario, where each panelist at the bottom is able to add 2 sub panelist every 2 months, then we need to add E# row with 8000. And at 11th level we will see the figures as follows
A11: Level 11 : Month 22.
B11: New Panelist Joined : 1024000 (Each sub-panelist adds 2 new member each Month)
C11: Total Panelist : 2047000
D11: Total Income (“C11” x 11000) : 2,251,70,00,000 (2251 Crore 70 Lakhs)
E11: Payout for surveys (“C11” x 1000) : 1,637,60,00,000 (1637 Crore 60 Lakhs)
F11: Payment for referals : 107,52,00,000 {(B11 x 1000) + (B9 x 200)}
G11: Amount Left with Company : -1224.41 Crore {D11 – (E1+E2+E3…E11+F1+F2+F3…F11)}
So we see, if the panelists grow slowly, then they face huge losses. Thats why they market aggressively and pay you recruitment bonuses, so that people recruit more and more panelists as soon as possible. This gives them opportunity to earn maximum.
Also they start giving points which could be redeemed for money later on. So people usually don’t withdraw it. They let it accumulate it, so that they could withdraw a big amount to fulfill their dreams.
Then after some time, the law enforcement catches up and blocks stuff. People think that due to the Law enforcement their money is stuck, etc, etc.
@Oz … yeah some people will never learn… if these figures open few minds… then I’ll be happy to have saved some… 😀
I appreciate the efforts of some readers who have painstakingly done research on speakasia, despite not being members themselves. They have genuine concern about people getting duped and therefore devoted considerable amount of time and effort in compiling the data and replying to various points.
At the sametime, I cannot help wondering the rationale of those 20 lac people who joined and are still supporting the company even 4 months after the payouts have stopped. Are they dumb or plain greedy?
Mr.Ashok bahirwani, for that matter is head of a MNC. So I am sure he must have done his due diligence. I am sure there would have been some souls who would have done their calculations before joining and not after this has happened.
Its high time some laws come up so that ponzy schemes are not floated and genuine companies are supported.
it’s estimated that Albania, which broke into CIVIL WAR after collapse of multiple ponzi schemes / pyramid schemes, have up to 30% of their GDP tied in such schemes during the late 1990’s. And that means BILLIONS of dollars. The schemes are so hungry for money, they are offering to “double your money in one month when the schemes are near collapse.
Neither, actually. They’ve been brainwashed into not believing the government, but instead to only believe in SAOL and their uplines, nobody else. They are conditioned into disbelieving anything anybody else says that is contrary to what they already believe in, even if they have to bend truth into a pretzel to fit that into their reality, usually by dismissing the truth right in front of them.
Those are the signs of a religious cult, except this is about money, not religion.
Doubt it. You know how they will dismiss it? “I don’t have to look at those numbers. You don’t understand how it really works.”
Once I ran into a guy who tried to explain that it takes 8 people to cycle out a guy off a 2×3 matrix (i.e. 1-2-4-8 pyramid). I asked him what the heck did he came up with 8 when it’s clearly 14. Took him 3 posts before I realized he only counted the bottom-most layer. That’s some creative accounting. 😀
Who the hell this misguided calculator ?? trying to prove that his views are right and other 20 lakhs peoples are fool ??
company has entered in products, all knows that except this poor fool fellow . Why he not quoting other cos registered in India having same type of bussiness, because they are run by powerful politicians ?? name a few:- nmart , admatrix and many more run by his ( claimed to be very clever fellows , politicians)media tycoons. those alongwith this fool writer are trying to take away the employement of 20 laks peoples.
They don’t know that SAOL has a pool of more than 800 co’s to exchange the surveys and getting profits from that income too and can pay its panelists from that. And no succefull bussiness house will ever disclose its stratgies to the ever gready media whose fool making ads income is under threat by SOAL when it enters in ads bussiness and thats the main reason , media is always negative about SAOL.
Let everything be cleared in Court and than we will see how this false and negative propoganda making media, politicians and their spoons chhamchhas( like the one who has started this subject)will survive infront of the power of 20 lakh peoples.
till than u can write whatever u like without going into its details. every one know this game of banning only SAOL and not other such type co’s. We r not going to be misleaded by such -ve propogandas anymore. Jai Speakasia
Jai Hind
support AISPA’s appeal for giving charity to earthquake victims by donating in PMs relief fund.
although we don’t need any charity if all the black money of carrupt politicians, media tycoons and other offenders of our country ( whose detail list is with me ) can be seized and put in such causes . support SAOL , support Anna , Support India against curroption. thanks
Well What else, SOAL has been able to fool 20L people. Also I’ve given example on how companies fool people. Every pyramid scheme is the same.
What product YUG? Some cheap china made stuff, which you people believe to be made in Germany? Also 100 crore worth goods have been seized by the customs. You guys won’t believe any of the leading news paper/media. But will believe any rumor because you want to hear that only.
If SOAL is allowed to run further, then who knows 20 crore people would be cheated. Try to understand the math.
But till now not even a SINGLE company has claimed that they do business with SOAL? Whatever names they took, everyone denied. Do they feel ashamed to declare that they do business with SOAL, the so called BEST COMPANY ON PLANET EARTH????
SOAL People say words like Precision Marketing… with 20 lakh (this is not total members, but inclusive of members with multiple IDs). 20 Lakh is nothing. An average town of India will have much more people than 20 lakhs.
Also now you are claiming that 20 lakh families are in trouble, that means 11,000 is a big amount for them. Who will pay huge money for their surveys and target them for selling their products?
Family struggling for 11,000 rupees and giving surveys on Mercedes Benz??? ROFL..
Forget about media, at least they could provide their audits?
They never shown anyone their balance sheets? If they show their balance sheet in the court, then it’ll be a big relief and for that Manoj and Haren don’t even need to come to India. They could email/fax it. Just like those scanned mails posted by them..
Why is that each and every media is against SOAL? Media houses have competition among themselves and many would be bitter rivals. Still they all say wrong about Speakasia? Only AISPA is supporting SOAL. Infact even Manoj must be surprised that people still remaining a fool..
LOL… LOL… LOL… lets see, the court is again and again bashing you guys, still never learnt a lesson. And what is 20 lakh members? Huh? Times Of India sells more than 20 crore news paper and would charge few thousands/lakhs for ads. And SOAL gets 20 lakh * 400 rs per survey from client.. LMAO…
And finally I would like to tell you, here in this site, we oppose all types of pyramid scheme companies.
Finally, I really feel pity for the innocent people who have invested in these kinds of scheme and lost their hard earned money. But I really hate those guys who promote these kinds of stuff and knowingly brain wash gullible people to part with their hard earned money.
Why not? DMG scam in Colombia fooled SIX MILLION people. SpeakAsia ain’t the first, ain’t the last, ain’t the biggest.
E-zine Product that has nothing to do with its core business.
Because that’s not the topic, SAOL is.
Scamming people is not employment.
Clearly you didn’t watch the news conference where the company admit to lying about its clients, and nobody commissioned them to make ANY surveys.
Thus far every one of your points is bogus, ignores reality except those that fit your view. Thus, your complaint is completely bogus as well.
You’re basically saying because SAOL has so many members/victims, it should be allowed to continue to exist even though it has an illegal business model. That’s bogus argument.
Democracy cannot override the law and the constitution. If it can, law and constitution have no meaning. It’s tyranny by the majority. SAOL members ain’t even much of a majority compared to population of India. It’s merely a blip on the radar, nothing more.
AISPA’s conference was yesterday and as of yet nothing much seems to have come of it. A bit surprising really seeing as it was put on entirely for the press.
Thus far all I’ve seen is this short clip from Zee News.
Kind of amusing that Bahirwani states the only cause of concern is the ‘arrest of our panelists’.
What about the reasons a panelist might be arrested? Say, for in being involved in pyramid scheme…
@anju
By all means republish your comment, but please refrain from copy and pasting entire articles with attribution to their original author.
On a related note, how did your press conference go yesterday? Almost 24 hours later it appears to have been a total non-event?
well it seems we just belong to different ‘cults’
a case of the pot calling the kettle black
what we are to speak asia you are to amway
you cannot take a moral high ground and say we are right and amway is right [lots of people digress]
you cannot say we are wrong to support speakasia[lots of people digress]
both our pet projects are facing the heat under the same act[prize chit etc]
why are you jumping the gun and saying amway is right and speakasia is wrong .are you bigger than the judiciary now?
hey do you want aispa to help you set up a press conference ?
hey your company is only 5.5 lacs strong compared to saols 2 million you’re pretty small fish.
whaaaaat!
you’re not showing my ‘research’?
that was from corporate frauds watch and the author is shyam sunder a lawyer and attorney.it was clearly mentioned at the bottom.
another case of self regulated press hitting the edit button when it suits them.
if you’re finding the post long just put the link
i’m waiting.
What on Earth are you talking about? I’m not a member of either.
What I can distinguish however is a compensation plan this is product based with retail commissions, and a pyramid scheme, and this is not limited to Speak Asia and Amway.
For completely different reasons!
I never said Amway were right and Speak Asia are wrong. That’s for the courts to decide. What I can say however is that after looking at both company’s business models, one is a blatant recruitment game that is heavily tilted towards the recruitment of others, and the other has a solid retail commission system in place as part of it’s larger compensation plan.
Care to guess which is which, and furthermore which is more likely to not be ruled illegal?
And which company would that be?
You published one line of your own text and then several giant paragraphs of unedited plagiarism without crediting your source.
Like I said, feel free to republish but do so properly.
In name only, you didn’t attribute the source.
By all means use articles to strengthen whatever it is you’re trying to get across but one line of text plus giant unedited paragraphs obviously copy and pasted from somewhere (not attributed) are marked as spam.
You want me to go out and attribute what you publish here and if I don’t claim censorship?
Yeah, good luck with that son. Get off your lazy arse and properly attribute your own comments.
As a publisher I get annoyed when people copy entire articles without attribution, I imagine Corporate Frauds Watch (if that’s where it was sourced) are the same. This is a courtesy extended to them as a fellow publisher, it has nothing to do with your silly conspiracy theories.
2nd mention:
Mustn’t have been all that much of a success if all you did was rush on here to publish about a reader getting banned from a third party website rather than update us on the particuliars.
Apart from Zee News, I haven’t seen anyone cover it. All that’s surfaced is a 4 minute long Youtube video shot after the conference in what looks to be a public carpark on a handycam.
why is chang on the corporate fraud watch website [and getting chucked out from there subsequently!]bringing out the big guns and fighting hard?
behind mlm pretends to look hard and long at different mlm’s and give a critical review.
have you ever critiqued amway?do you find absolutely NO fault in it’s structure?
i find it hard to believe that without some PERSONAL stake in amway you guys would spend precious time on some pissant site fighting tooth and nail for amway
out with it.
Again, what on Earth are you talking about?! I couldn’t care less if Kasey was banned from somewhere.
Just like Amway’s compensation plan has no bearing on Speak Asia’s compensation plan, what happens to Kasey elsewhere on the web is irrespective to what he contributes here. That information stands on its own.
No. But I do know they have a solid commission based on the retail sales of their tangible products. Within the context of Speak Asia this greatly differentiates them from Speak Asia’s simplistic pyramid scheme business model.
Amway was introduced into the discussion on Speak Asia in attempt to detract attention away from Speak Asia. Granted this is a discussion about Speak Asia and beyond stating the simple fact that the two companies share no similarities compensation plan wise and are being investigated for different reasons, I couldn’t care less about Amway as this isn’t about them. It’s about Speak Asia.
Believe it.
Out of all the nonsensical rubbish commentary published about Speak Asia on the many sites out there, I believe what’s here on BehindMLM is, and I’m being blunt, possibly the only discussion even remotely based in rationalism and presented in an educated manner.
After all, it’s why you’re here isn’t it?
3rd mention:
the press conference was very good .the press empathized.they didn’t ask stupid questions about the business model of the company because they know that an associations conference is different from a companies conference .after about an hour the press conference will be uploaded on aispa.co.in.
our PR agent is preparing his report on the conf and will submit it by the evening.around 23 representatives of different media were present [mainly print media].
print reports will start appearing from tomorrow.
besides amway which other mlm’s do you support actively?
that was a carpark and it was a handycam.
that was just a short update by mr.bahirwani for the people who could not attend the conf.
i’m nobody’s son but definitely some body’s daughter.
Stupid only in the sense you cannot defend it to people who have no vested financial interest in being able to participate in it or not.
So they listened to your member’s sob stories… which came about because of Speak Asia’s business model… which is apparently stupid to ask questions about.
Any half competant journalist would be able to put that connection together (unless your PR team specifically briefed them not to ask questions about Speak Asia directly).
Great, I look forward to reading them.
I don’t support any MLM company, I merely evaluate any given opportunity on its own merit and publish my opinions and review.
Non-support for any particular opportunity is the key difference between those of us with no vested interest in MLM companies and those of us with (such as yourself).
Whether Amway are banned or Speak Asia is banned is of no personal consequence to me – however it is clear the two companies employ completely different business models rendering comparison invalid.
My interest is and always will be in the MLM industry at large.
There is apparent method behind this madness of Ashok Bahirwani’s panicky message on September 17, 2011 fixing press conference at a short notice on Sept. 19, 2011.
On Sept. 16, 2011, Aaj Tak TV Channel reported that 150 top panelist accounts of SAOL are under scanner of Finance Ministry. This news triggered damage control action by the real mastermind behind SAOL scam as till now he has very smartly managed to keep the glare away from himself and his team of top leaders.
Along with several blogs/websites created soon after SAOL’s downfall, AISPA appears to be the mastermind’s need based creation (with Ashok Bahirwani’s exclusive control on AISPA website) to keep the panelists’ minds engaged in eternal hope and also to keep AISPA’s diversionary pressure on the authorities so that he along with his group of top leaders remains out of investigative agencies’ radar.
The untold story behind SAOL scam has been revealed in UTV Bloomberg TV Programme “Exposed: Ponzi Scheme: Ugly Truth”. This sting operation video is available as Part3 of this series on the website http://www.strategyindia.com/blog, uploaded on Sept 16, 2011 (originally uploaded on YouTube on Sept 12, 2011).
During the sting operation, a promoter of ponzi schemes unwittingly explained his modus operandi to UTV Bloomberg team, posing as potential promoters for launching a new ponzi scheme. He also spilled beans about SAOL.
As per him, SAOL’s mastermind had operated a similar scheme a few years ago, wherein he made a profit of Rs 6 crore. Then he worked for one full year to make a smoothly operating ponzi scheme at a really grand scale with five star hotel culture.
All the operations of SAOL are from Mumbai. Haren Kaur is merely a dummy director with no work to do and just earning some transaction based commission. Operating from a hotel in Mumbai and continuously surrounded by 1000 of his frontline leaders, the mastermind has made a cool profit of Rs 1000 crore while SAOL distributors and employees are behind bars or in hiding,CEO Manoj Kumar and Haren Kauy are absconding abroad and the panelists are left in the lurch.
Several months before SAOL’s downfall, his full team moved over to operate a similar type ad based Ponzy scheme “launched from abroad”. There is one clue offered to his identity that the ad based scheme’s mastermind is SAOL mastermind’s own brother.
Now this is enough material for BEHIND MLM and its well-informed readers like Anju to fill in the blanks and make the SAOL story complete instead of running around in circles and wasting everybody’s time. It also provides an opportunity for BEHIND MLM to complete its story about the ad based Ponzy scheme.
That was very intersting to watch Observed.
So allegedly the brother of whoever is actually running Speak Asia started up AdMatrix… meanwhile Speak Asia’s owner is running things from a hotel in Mumbai.
Unfortunately higher than Anne Wessel being the public face of AdMatrix, I’ve got no idea who we’re talking about… and I very much doubt anju is going to fill in the blanks. Herself, along with most of AISPA are probably all in on it.
Video of the AISPA press conference on Monday afternoon;
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Lots of empty chairs and Bahirwani argues that because people have been paid, Speak Asia is legit.
Does he have rocks in his head? Paying people doesn’t legitimise a pyramid scheme!
He even claims the shutting down of it is a human rights violation because people ‘have nowhere else to go’. Right, so lets excuse all ponzi schemes then.
@ Observer, Speakasian Panelists will never ever believe any of the Media content. They’ll only believe whats posted in the blogs .. and that too only positive contents about Speakasia.
They’ll stop believing that their father/mother/brother/sister/children as their relative if they even think negative about Speakasia. 😀
There you go again, making accusations without forethought.
Amway’s model was initially declared illegal and only accepted by the American FTC after the landmark lawsuit in 1979 during which they agreed to some fundamental rule changes. Even then they are not always in the clear around the world.
Not to mention what’s legal is not always good for you. Alcohol and cigarettes comes to mind.
The fact that Amway is only illegal in ONE state in India, whereas SAOL is under investigation and illegal in MULTIPLE states, would indicate that you seem to be holding a minority opinion.
According to a 19th September press release put out by Speak Asia Marketing, apparently the RBI finally met up with Speak Asia executives (I thought they were all in hiding and/or jail?).
After a presentation into how Speak Asia works (dear god… are they still claiming ‘nobody gets it?), Speak Asia has been given 2 weeks to respond to some enquiries the RBI had about their presentation.
Why they couldn’t just answer those enquiries at the time of the presentation is beyond me… it’s not like it’s a complicated or hard to understand business model.
One of the companies that the guy in the video was talking about…..the one with two websites….one ending in .com and the other in .net….I think they are http://www.globalfxtrades.com and http://www.globalfxtrades.net
A week ago, I had sent a mail to globalfxtrades.com asking them if the other one (www.globalfxtrades.net) was theirs. I received no reply.
Could very well be GlobalFXTrades… it seems to fit.
On a related note, all these official looking certificates these guys put on their various websites… all forgeries?
The Deccan Chronicle is reporting that those running Speak Asia have already moved on to other ventures, they cite something called ‘ Precision India Marketing Limited’ but I can’t seem to find and web presence for them.
Anyone know anything further?
Meanwhile the next court action involving Speak Asia seems to be 10th October for the Supreme Court and then the 12th for the panelists PIL.
Before then Speak Asia has to get back to the RBI to clarify the business model, so that should be interesting too.
Forgeries or not I don’t know but the company’s no. given on the certificate is 7580367 whereas the no. given on the page below shows 07580367.
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/0dcf4969644a06e233a8ff108e3dade3/compdetails
In Europe companies can be registered in 24 hours for about 150 Euros. It’s no big deal. You can do it through an agent/proxy so your own name need never appear.
TVI Express, for long time, claimed to exist in UK as “TVI Services”. When THAT company was dissolved in March 2011, that lie quietly died.
who is this observer person[smells like BFF moneylife]
why is secret observer not giving out the name of the ‘mastermind’ and his brother .is it a national secret?
seems like a well spun conspiracy theory except for the fact that speakasians from mumbai who have had a ring side view and lots of direct contact with any number of company officials have ne’er heard any such grand story.
i wish things had been so murky and shady and shrouded in secret[it would’ve made things so much more exciting]
however as we see it there’s just a lot of running around and lots of legal work and lots of prayer and lots of hope
and i reiterate WE ARE GETTING THERE!
oooooh!aispa is a highly secret organization made up of people from the steamy underworld of mumbai!
anju is their top notch conwoman who spends her time conning soapbax and mr.amway on the world famous site behindmlm
GET A LIFE!
ha ha aha aha!you guys have finally developed a sense of humor.
Not relevant, the information they bring to the table is the only thing that matters. This information appears to be backed up by a credible tv show (albeit with a interviewee who appears far from credible). This doesn’t mean it should be written off without due diligence though.
And the fact that he’s provided video proof is a touch above the usual ‘prayers and lots of hope‘ rhetoric we usually get when AISPA or Speak Asia are questioned on anything (such as Speak Asia’s business model for example).
Yeah I couldn’t help but wonder that too, assuming Observer knows who it is.
That’s kind of the whole point, you’re not supposed to know.
make up your confused minds .one moment we’re IN on everything and one moment we’re not SUPPOSED to know.
just so that you know, in our pil hearing in the mumbai high court a few days back[forget the date] the judge [a new bench]pulled up the eow asking why it needed so much time to file it’s reply[duh!could that be because they don’t have any proof to back up their claims of moneylaundering and ponzi scheme etc?]
you are also seeing that resultant of legal movements ,the rbi finally met with saol representatives.[why dint they meet saol before churning out their now infamous ‘cautionary letter?].
time has to be granted for query reply because the the reply has to be in written with all reqd documents attached etc.a few days would have been enough why the rbi choose a date 2 weeks away is known only to them [time wastage tactics?]
There’s a distinction to be made here between AISPA management and its members (please don’t go on about how nobody runs AISPA, there’s a clear chain of command there).
What proof beyond the Speak Asia business model do they need?! Whether Speak Asia is a ponzi scheme or not is right there in black and white in its compensation plan!
Because Speak Asia cancelled the meeting, it claimed all its officials (bar those hiding overseas) were in jail.
Probably to be sure that Speak Asia didn’t kick up a fuss about how little time it had been given.
I was under the impression that the two weeks was a deadline. If so, why don’t Speak Asia just deliver their response now, assuming of course that it’s ready.
(doesn’t take long to print out the compensation plan and send it off).
ashokji is doing just fine.thanx for asking.
his mom had been ailing for sometime now and his family has taken a spiritual view that she is now released from the burden of a failing body.
before the cautionary letter nobody had been arrested[get your timeline right]
it was the C letter which put into motion the chain of events leading to the arrests.
what nonsense !you’re now trying to insinuate that aispa has some murky going on’s.prove it!
fellas, were just a bunch of ordinary citizens who wont settle for bad treatment from the authorities.we have every right to fight for what we believe in and your incurable negativity just doesn’t stand a chance of stopping us.
Why do the RBI need to meet with Speak Asia before releasing a cautionary letter.
And how about you get your timeline right. RBI granted Speak Asia an audience after the cautionary letter was issued (because Speak Asia demanded it), and Speak Asia postponed it.
I said no such thing. All I’m saying is that if the theory that the owner of Speak Asia is sitting in Mumbai running things, then AISPA’s management would most likely be in on it (or know who it is).
Given that this theory hasn’t been proved either way (I certainly don’t know who the person is that is being referred to in the Bloomberg show or who runs AdMatrix), it’s nothing more than a suggestion.
Till it’s proven, it’s not even an accusation… so let’s just leave it at that.
Perhaps, but Speak Asia’s business model did and continues to do a good enough job of it.
if speakasia postponed a meeting there must be a letter to this effect.
show that letter or shutup about this alleged ‘postponement’ forever.
ask your BFF moneylife to furnish the same for you and also request them to refrain from coming up with their dingbat TALES.
It could have been a letter, maybe it was an email, a fax, a telephone call who knows. If there’s a written record of it, it’d be with the RBI.
What’s your point?
I’m not the RBI.
Money Life are a credible operation, time to get over it.
Speaking of credibility, what happened to all those defamation cases Speak Asia promised us. Weren’t they threatening to sue half of the Indian media at various points in time?
http://speakasiateamupdate.blogspot.com/2011/09/blog-post.html
Something funny
^^ If the marketing blogspot site is to believed, the above letter is fake.
the site mentioned above is a fake site.
some trouble mongers probably
i have some clarification about secret observers the ‘mastermind brothers’ story
they are no masterminds ,they are brothers who are franchisees of speakasia and ad matrix .
they are probably holed up in a hotel to avoid the eow.
they are just one of the many franchisees speakasia has ,and are definitely not ‘running’ everything.
another example of how the press [moneylife?]loves to blow things out of proportion.
there is nothing wrong if people want to join some other mlm’s as well since their income has dried out temporarily.heck! am i not considering joining prelaunch?that wont mean i’m abandoning speakasia.
i know people who participate in several mlm’s at the same time
trivia-most amway ‘distributors’ are now speakasians too.
Regarding the two brothers, I don’t think you can blame the media in that instance… the names were dropped in an interview with a shady figure being recorded via hidden cam. Seems like a hell of a lot of effort to go out and get their own shady figure only to bleep out company and people’s names for the show broadcast!
Out of curiosity, what’s the explicit difference between a franchisee and member of Speak Asia?
Anju seem to know a lot about the Insiders … In the videos they never mentioned anything much. And here she even claims that they are franchisees of both SpeakAsia and AdMatrix.
Makes me doubt, that both Anju and Ashok Bhairwani… are part of the inner circle of Speakasia…
franchisees and distributors sell subscriptions of the ezine.
members or panelists are people who purchase the ezine and this gives them an opportunity to participate in various company activities :-
fill up SOME,ALL or NONE of the surveys offered.[which i do]
sell MANY,SOME or NONE subscriptions [i have sold none]
sell adspace on the company site[upcoming]
sell products of the company [you know customs is holding the first consignment]
participate in training programs
you are free to do all or none of the above
your reward points will reflect the exact amount of work
done by you
the surveys collected are sold on international panel exchanges and income earned from these sales is reflected in the books of the company.
if riffraff worked for aispa he would be in the inner circle too
there are no great grand mystical secrets here
when you are in touch with lots of people, things get around
Aren’t all panelists by default franchisees or distributors seeing as financially there’s no distinction between the two in the compensation plan?
As for the rest… yeah, believe it when I see it. From my understanding the products being held had nothing to do with resale rights by panelists, rather they were to be bought with rewards points by existing members so that Speak Asia didn’t have to pay out so much of it’s membership fees to existing members.
If I recall correctly when this was announced there were quite a lot of members simply telling everyone to ignore the products and just cash out anyway.
Uh what? I thought the official line has always been ‘they’re commissioned’. Remember when they got caught out flat out lying about their survey clients?
franchisees and distributors have a totally different compensation plan from panelists.
to purchase products you can pay fully by cash or, pay by cash and reward points.
anybody can buy these products panelists and non panelists .
panelists however get an added discount on these products.
sorry,my bad,the company does get commissioned to do particular surveys AND also sells surveys on international panels exchanges.
speakasia is one of the largest panel providers in the world today due to it’s sheer size and the fact that it covers a whole range of demographics.
How so? You pay $X to Speak Asia and beyond that there’s no difference. Panelists can recruit and distribitors can do surveys.
Why would the international community be interested in the survey results coming out of India. Aren’t these things usually hyper localised?
I’d be taking that assertion with a huge grain of salt.
The major problem with Speak Asia’s surveys is the question of accuracy. What use are survey results polluted with subpanelist contributions (ie. 1 person submitting ten responses to the same survey because they have ten sub-panelist accounts)?
If you can’t provide accurate results, nobody is going to buy your published survey findings.
buying products or further selling them is a matter of CHOICE only.
whaaaaat?
of course the whole world is interested in surveys from india.
didn’t you know that china and india are on everybody’s radar because of the huge untapped market potential they represent.
you can have a total of 3 sub panels for each identity and will receive three separate surveys for them.
for more panels you have to establish an identity from a family member. a parent or sibling or whatever.you have to provide their pan card as proof of their existence .
since the family member represents a different demographic age,sex,financial independence etc] they can fill in the same survey with their unique perspective.
the company has further introduced many other safeguards like tracking the ip address and other such tech stuff that i refuse to understand.
Yeah, but within the compensation plan it requires the same membership. There’s only membership option is what I’m getting at.
China yes, but India… yeah not quite yet in my opinion. Locally sure, but not in the global marketplace.
So that’s still calling the overall accuracy of the work done into question. Even 2 surveys handed in by the same person affects the credibility of the survey results, let alone 3 and on a mass scale.
That’s not going to mean much. Internet cafes can be used and if family members are encouraged to join that just complicates things as they’ll all be on the same IP address.
franchisees and distributors have to purchase a large number of subscriptions from the company in advance and they earn as they sell these subscriptions.i mean they have to carry an inventory of the company product.
panelists on the other hand purchase only one subscription from the franchisee and then sell it further.they don’t have to keep large sums of money invested in the company.
the very fact that you are unaware of india’s gobal presence has pissed me off.
go study emerging markets of the world
-china india and Brazil and the primary contenders.
If both can earn the same commission bonuses for recruiting new members, what’s the incentive to be a franchisee?
None of this mind you was ever mentioned in the publicly available compensation plan. No wonder Speak Asia have been carrying on about explaining their business model, they’ve been hiding bits of it from everyone.
They have a global presence sure, it’s just what I’d call a strong consumer market.
Take something as simple as Adsense for example. It’s well known that despite India’s internet population, Adsense traffic from India is worth peanuts.
That’s only a small example but the market as a whole isn’t a strong one. India certainly isn’t consumer hungry like China is. Emerging yes, but it’s not what I’d call a strong consumer market.
China is an established market and growing. India has a long ways to go yet.
And Brazil… both India and Brazil are years behind China’s economic growth and demand. I’m not trying to put India down here, just stating what I think is an accurate assesment between China’s and India’s consumer markets.
The ‘shady person’ who has revealed during the sting operation about SAOL mastermind’s modus operandi in detail is actually a well-experienced and highly successful rival mastermind of similar ponzy schemes and has unwittingly revealed in detail modus operandi of his own ponzi schemes as well in two parts of the sting operation’s video telecast on UTV Bloomberg (Parts 2 & 3 of the video reports are available on the website http://www.strategyindia.com/blog).
His estimate of Rs 2200 crore collected by SAOL mastermind is confirmed by subsequent press reports (A figure of Rs 2276 crore is mentioned in Deccan Cronicle, Hyderabad report dated September 22, 2011).
Being a similar scheme scam operator with full market dynamics understanding, he holds very high regard for SAOL mastermind’s meticulous initial detailed planning for one year and execution capability which made him earn cool profit of Rs 1000 crore which is a record fantastic achievement among such scamsters.
His revelation that SAOL mastermind moved his team of leaders with his brother at the top panelist to Admatrix scheme well before SAOL scheme closure is also confirmed by Anju.
Anju Agarwal’s repeated desperate attempts to establish legality of SAOL’s business model points needle of suspicion towards her (or is it his) closeness to SAOL mastermind and CEO Manoj Kumar, who vehemently defended legality of SAOL’s business model during press conference held on May 16, 2011 (“We are not running a ponzi scheme”).
It may not be a big surprise if Anju turns out to be Manoj Kumar himself, who considers himself to be an extremely clever professional and has ample time available at hand to try proving legality of SAOL’s business model.
Now that Anju has confirmed about her awareness of SAOL mastermind and his brother “who are holed up in a hotel to avoid the eow”, she can reveal their names. Even otherwise, the authorities are after them to get hold of Rs 1,000 crore profit siphoned off from SAOL scheme (Admatrix profit figures are yet to be revealed).
RED HERRING. SAOL sells a VIRTUAL product, e-zine, that needs NO INVENTORY. Your argument is COMPLETELY irrelevant and therefore bogus.
the fact that you continue to defend a scam pissed me off.
Completely irrelevant. You just claimed that SAOL is an e-zine publisher, not a consumer survey company. Clearly, you can’t even track your lies properly, and is talking about of both sides of your mouth.
first i was ashok now i’m probably manoj kumar .hey you missed out haren kaur ,tarak bajpai etc or maybe i’m all of them rolled into one.
i bloody well think this shady observer person is the ‘enemy’ who brought saol down.
i have made no such confirmation that some mastermind has shifted his team to admatrix.all i said was one brother is franchisee of saol and one is of admatrix.i do not know their names but i guess i could find out ,i bet it’s not a national secret.
everybody and anybody is welcome to join admatrix or any other scheme it is not illegal to do so.
chang the defender[distributor] of amway ,cant keep up.
saol publishes an ezine ,runs surveys and sells products.
who said a company can do only one thing at a time?
though the ezine is a virtual product each ezine has a pin number and distributors and franchisees have to purchase a large number of pins in advance[stock up so to say]
again, the amount a franchisee earns on selling a pin differs drastically from what a panelist earns on selling a pin.this is because distributor margins are volume based and are much smaller than retail margins.
the very fist press conference of saol clearly explained their business model in detail .however the press did not report any of it.they got stuck at -saol apologized for LYING-and just couldn’t get over this statement and this became the basis of their future reporting . the company lied then apologized hence proved-SCAM!
the so called lie, as all speakasians know, was more of a half drunken gaffe when some blabbermouth manager was talking to some members of the press informally [not on record-he did not probably know somebody was recording him on a cell phone].
by the way ashokji has been a corporate honcho,manoj kumar is a well known management guy internationally,it’s almost complimentary that you guys think a simple graduate could be either of these people.
thaaanks man!
soapbox, dontcha dare say saol has been ‘hiding’ bits and peices of info.
pray,why would they do that?to get shut down on the basis of a single complaint?do they particularly ENJOY incarceration?just for fun?
you say speakasia and people immediately cover their ears and start screaming ponzi!scam!cheats!WHO HAS BEEN LISTENING?
Not really, Speak Asia’s own business model did a pretty good job of that…
I don’t know if this is a new official company line, but no they don’t. At the time of suspended payments Speak Asia sell nothing but memberships to the company and this has not changed.
What they were ‘going to do’ doesn’t count until it’s implemented.
The e-zine is not sold, subscription to it is sold, and given that subscription is inseperably tied into membership, and that the real commissions in Speak Asia are tied into membership, the real item being sold is membership.
PINS are nothing more than membership accounts. There’s no inventory of them and you don’t stock them. You stock and keep inventory of real tangible products, not virtual ones and memberships.
Man, I thought it was bad enough Speak Asia were rewarding panelists with boatloads more money than completing surveys. And now you’re saying franchisees earnt even more money than panelists for recruiting?!
So pretty much there was zero incentive for franchisees to do anything but recruit.
Out of curiosity and to draw a comparison, what was the exact dollar amount franchisees earnt for recruiting someone to Speak Asia.
A press conference doesnt change the fact that no information whatsoever was presented to the general public on their website about franchisee agreements. This information was kept hidden from the public.
Lied, caught out, and then went into damage control is a far more accurate summary. They only apologised because they were caught out, otherwise the lies would have remained in place to cover their operations.
What are you talking about? CEO Manoj Kumar personally apologised for mentioning the company names after they put out press releases denying have any involvement whatsoever with Speak Asia.
It came straight from his own mouth.
I conducted thorough research into Speak Asia before writing my review on them. At the time no mention whatsoever was made about franchisee agreements and payouts in their compensation plan.
In that sense this information was kept hidden from the public. Sounds like you had to hear about the franchisee agreements via Speak Asia management or word of mouth from existing investors.
Is there anything recorded on paper and publicly available about it?
Oh please, they were shut down on the basis of their business model. Nothing more nothing less. If a complaint is what it took to spark an investigation into the business model, then so be it.
Let’s not dismiss the entire investigation into Speak Asia as being the result of what you portray to be a petty complaint.
Anyone who’s spent a few minutes looking at their compensation plan… really, it’s not rocket science.
On a related note, Bahirwani is sounding as embarassingly cultlike as ever in his latest AISPA update;
One of us, one of us!
o come on !thats just ashokji’s literary style.
it’s motivational.
people like it.
who cares that you don’t?
i’m not completely sure but i think a franchisee gets 2 or 3%of the subscription cost[ ie 10,000 rs].this means a franchisee must be getting 200 or 300 rs per subscription.these sales do not constitute the downline of the franchisee .he gets no bonuses for a pair of subscriptions.
as a panelist i get 1000rs for every subscription sale and 3000 if i get a pair.
a franchisee has to pay the company for a certain number of pins in advance and this constitutes his virtual stock.
It’s awkwardly cultish, that’s what it is… and saying it’s his literary style doesn’t change that.
Why do you have to reduce it to ‘you either like it or you don’t’? As an unbrainwashed observer I’m merely calling it out Bahirwani’s rhetoric for what it is.
Is there any precautionary limit to the amount of memberships a franchisee can pre purchase? Or were people just being told there’d be no problem ofselling their ‘stocked’ memberships and then being left in the lurch?
this is how the gaffe happened.
during gennext in goa a senior manager was was having an informal tete a tete with some press over drinks.[our press just LOVE their free drinks].
this half drunk fellow said some stupid things about companies for which surveys were done.
some sly media guy got this down on his mobile and this became the sacrosanct truth.
did the media officially ask the company for an explanation?no.they just raked up a lot of muck and the company was forced to call for a press conference to clarify.
was the press conference covered honestly and with integrity?no.all the media deduced from the conf was that the company apologized for their lie[gaffe] and how that was enough to hang them by.
How dare the media take a senior manager’s comments in an official capacity at an official company event… what an OUTRAGE!
And they recorded him, how deceitful and sly!
Whether he was drunk or not is inconsequential and no excuse, he got his information from somewhere… and the chain of command only goes up.
What, they can’t take senior managers at their word now? Speak Asia had to admit their lies and Manoj Kumar apologies on behalf of the company for lying. He never said anything about rogue managers or even bothered to distance the company from the comments.
Ergo these lies were being widely circulated within the company at the time.
It’s a bit hard to scrape any honesty and integrity from a press conference called to basically admit you went on the record to lie and mislead the general public.
Inside the cult you’re far too forgiving. Look outside your financially vested interests and realise that companys lying about their operations is a big deal and huge hit to their credibility.
That lie alone did untold damage to Speak Asia’s reputation and credibility.
whaddyou mean left ‘in the lurch”?who’s left whom in the lurch?
the company’s operations were not shut down of it’s own volition as you very well know.
you also know the company is fighting hard to restart operations.
so who’s being left in the lurch?
as usual and predictably you media only half listen and that too to an extent that suits you.
was the press conf covered with honesty and integrity?no.
the press conf had lots more to offer besides the gracious apology offered by the company.like the concept and business model.but who cares about that?
So it’s not the government now? Or does your “enemy” keep shifting? So now it’s traitors?
Making stuff up now, aren’t you? I’ve only said Amway is legal in the US, and in MOST of India, which is way more than SAOL. Still trying to change the subject, eh?
SAOL runs surveys, REQUIRES those who take surveys to subscribe to the ezine, and claim that is their product. Even their senior officials and attorney have different versions of what the company is supposed to be doing.
The company’s own officials, namely, Manoj Kumar, and their legal counsel at the time, what’s that fellow’s name, Kirogi or something like that?
Why? Each person only needs ONE copy of e-zine. Did you just admit that SAOL “encourages” panelists to buy extra copies?
Did you just tell us that SAOL also ‘encourages’ the panelists, now called franchisees, to sell the e-zines? Is that the same thing as recruiting?
You’re not tracking properly. The SAOL lawyer said one thing, Manoj Kumar said another, and apologized for a THIRD explanation offered earlier by “marketing”. Three people, three different explanations. It was explained in detail, and none of the details match up.
So it’s the police’s fault for a criminal to be arrested? Quite a bit of logic inversion.
If SAOL did not have an illegal business model, it would not be halted by the government. Thus, the ultimate blame belongs with SAOL, not the various enemies you’re trying to blame.
And your proof of that is what?
Except the concept and business model doesn’t track with the lawyer’s version, and the so-called ‘gracious apology’ is known as ‘spin control’, and you STILL have not explained why would a company recruit panelists on a binary plan with virtually NO CONFIRMED CLIENTS to do survey for.
The concept is fine, the execution is illegal pyramid scheme.
you seem to have a parrot like answer to everything -it’s ponzi ,it’s pyramid, it’s illegal -ad infinitum.
it is nothing of the sort unless proved in court.
amway is on trial in andhra
speakasia is on trial in mumbai and andhra.
yeah i see how widely disparate their positions are.
you say saol is on trial in several states .name them.
the proof that the press conf was not covered honestly is the media themselves who picked up snippets from the conf and spiced them together to make the company look bad.
for example they showed a media guy asking ‘who are your clients?’
in response they have shot of the ceo manoj sipping water as if he was avoiding the question.
in reality manoj kumar gave a detailed answer.
then this sort of coverage gets copied from channel to channel and overnight you have created a scam company who is avoiding questions.
if they wanted to avoid questions why’d they have the press conf in the first place?
panelists and franchisees are different.
you understand different?
this is a tomato. this is a potato. they are different.get it?
thus spake chang overlord of amway ,india.
so we’re halfway there aren’t we?
lets see-the concept is fine-great !that’s out of the way then.
what are we left with ?illegal pyramid scheme-meaning old members are paid by new members.
but if the company can prove HANDSOME revenue from panel sales that’s resolved too isn’t it?
toldya toldya toldya.
Anju, please read my Comment right at the top.
You have woken up after 96 comments.
Still not too late to get a straight reply from your friends who running the show from their hideouts.
thanx!thought you would address me as mr.manoj kumar![my,my, you’re really going overboard with your compliments]
let the rbi and the courts decide what amount of survey income is sufficient to disprove a money circulation scheme.
i don’t have to get any replies from anybody in any hideout.the only person hiding out here is quite clearly yourself .don’t like your name much do you?ashamed ,eh?
why don’t you ask your friends who bribed them to launch this
perfectly orchestrated attack against saol.
i see you have not gone crazy writing to the pmo and rbi about nmart.
get after nmart then we’ll think you’re fighting fair.
miss hoity toity, i shall wake up at any precious time i choose to.
has all the angry speakasian traffic stopped coming to your site?is that why your’e here twiddling your thumbs?
So you don’t dispute the observation at all. Is that a tacit approval?
There’s a difference between fact, and criminal behavior.
A person who committed a crime is a criminal, but until convicted he’s legally innocent. You can’t seem to see the difference. Just because a company haven’t been convicted of fraud doesn’t mean it had NOT been documented committing fraud.
Twisting my words AGAIN? I said
I’ll take back the illegal part, as it is “innocent until proven guilty”, but SAOL is under investigation as illegal scheme in multiple states in India.
So where’s the FULL FOOTAGE of the press conference? SAOL must have it somewhere. I don’t see any press releases disputing the news coverage.
The best way for SAOL to prove what happened is to release the full footage, instead of sending you to explain things without evidence to back yourself up.
It’s called “spin control”. Look it up.
And where is this documented on the SAOL website, as of 1 year ago? Or did you just made that up?
Your effort in hanging irrelevant title on me is rather amusing. I think I’ll call you Anju SAOL Master from now on.
Why don’t you define “panel sales” first? THEN we shall see whether it counts as pyramid scheme or not.
I think Shyam over at CorporateFraudsWatch is going after NMart. 🙂
@anju
Left in the lurch as in after you’ve bought memberships to resell, the company is done with you.
Of course not duh, when was the last time a pyramid scheme voluntarily shut down?
Given the most important event of the conference, that Speak Asia lied about its client list, was front and centrestage of the subsequent reporting, sure it was.
The media summarise into point form speeches and press conferences all the time, so stop playing the victim card. The business model has been understood for months now as it’s clearly been on display on the Speak Asia website since the company started.
Contrary to popular belief you don’t need a press conference or official explanation from the company to understand Speak Asia’s simplistic compensation plan (trust me, I analyse tons of them for BehindMLM and Speak Asia’s is as ‘pyramid-scheme simple’ as they come).
Oh please, that’s the tired ‘but you took me out of context!’ argument.
The media didn’t add anything to the footage, Speak Asia made themselves look bad by lying to everyone about their supposed survey contracts.
This was of the single most significant announcement at the press conference. Nobody cared about the compensation plan expalanation because we already knew what it was.
But did he answer the question? No.
Why waste everybodies time with bullshit PR speak when you can summarise Kumar’s answer with a shot of him drinking water. Speak Asia have completely and continue to avoid the question of who their clients are.
If they were doing a decent job they shouldn’t have to worry about the competition. Why is the survey industry so protective of it’s business contracts. Every other industry in the world is transparent when it comes to business relationships, but oh no, not survey companys. Then it’s all top secret hush hush.
Everybody knows there is no client list, hence the dodging of the question under the guise of ‘waah we don’t want to tell or our competitors will steal our contracts (because we’re doing such a shit job?)’. Rather then listen to Kumar waffle on, why not just summarise his response ‘sorry, we’re not going to tell you anything… so I’m going to take a sip of my water instead’.
Think about it, if the company could prove they made more from selling the results of their surveys then in membership WHY HAVEN’T THEY JUST GONE AHEAD AND PROVED IT?!
Seriously, it’s such a non-issue to prove and couldn’t possibly take more than a few minutes and some slideshows. The fact that this is dragging on for so long is absolute confirmation the idiots running Speak Asia cannot prove they are even selling their survey results, let alone making more on them than from memberbership fees.
… it doesn’t take a genius to work out this is merely going to be more than they are bringing in from memberships.
Given the company obviously doesn’t have any clients… good showing the RBI anything that isn’t dodgy!
Sidenote to everyone: what is this nMart stuff?
You don’t need a court to form the strong educated opinion that a company is a pyramid scheme. These have been around since at least the 1920’s and the model is well known.
Analyse MLM compensation plans and you can spot them a mile away. Do you honestly think some wildly different arguments are going to be used in the courts? Or that Speak Asia are going to present some alternative compensation plan for analysis.
They’re going to be analysing the same compensation plan and business model we are here and given it’s flaws will inevitably arrive at the same conclusion.
No amount of ‘explanations’ or spin doctoring from Speak Asia will change that. All that happens is the company goes to meeting with the authorities, explains their model and comes away crying about how they were misunderstood or how everyone is against them.
It’s really a simple model, recruit people and get paid commissions. There’s never been a product and you know as well as I that any future plans cannot be taken into consideration legally as they were never enacted on and as such in no way factored into Speak Asia’s operations up until the point they were effectively shut down by the regulators.
@K Chang
It was never mentioned on the Speak Asia website.
I’m starting to think it was an unofficial policy that Speak Asia used via word of mouth only to boost membership sales figures. Due to franchisee commissions (or hell, even the word ‘franchisee‘) never being publicly advertised or featured in the compensation plan, it seems they’re trying to weasle it in now as some kind of official policy that always existed.
Seriously, up until a few days ago despite detailed discussions about Speak Asia on multiple websites on multiple websites, nobody ever mentioned franchisee agreements or a franchisee compensation plan. Now all of a sudden we’re discussing it front and centre stage.
Sounds like a certain association received a memo recently from management to push the concept in their discussions…
@Oz — NMart is another suspect pyramid scheme hot and heavy in India. If you check CorporateFraudsWatch.blogspot.com it’s there somewhere.
Ah ok.
Checked out NMart’s hopeage and got a .NET server application error. Guess I’ll wait till they’ve fixed their problems and see if it’s worth giving them a review.
the press conf was called to explain speakasia’s business model and not merely for apologizing.the press could have asked some intelligent questions about the structure[distributors/franchisees]of the company .
but to do that they would have to THINK wouldn’t they? that’s HARD WORK.the press doesn’t like hard work , they just waddle in and out of conferences gorging on free food and picking up some gift vouchers along the way.
‘thinking’ is not in their job description.
saol has no clients for their surveys according to you [you have access to their bill books apparently]
great!that’s it!game over!
so why isn’t the eow [4 months and several arrests later,and with lots of alone time with the coo tarak]swaggering into court, saying this ONE sentence and putting saol away forever?
why are they limping into court every fortnight and pleading for more time?they have taken two extensions already and have been rapped by the judge.
how difficult is it for them to say ‘your honor, we have proof beyond all doubt that saol has nary a client.hence proved they are a money circulation scheme.please permit us to personally hang them’.there.done.
i mean i’m giving them permission to quote me ,since they are unable to come up with the lines themselves.
‘Sounds like a certain association received a memo recently from management to push the concept in their discussions…’
above is from your in house intelligentsia.
ha!when in doubt hit under the belt.right?cast aspersions left ,right and center.
since it’s inception saol has functioned using a distributor/franchisee network.
how’d you think they were conducting their business?selling their ezine door to door?
this may not be their exact same structure, [ i am not privy to their paperwork as you apparently are] but largely this is how things are done in india-
there is a central distributor
there are four sub distributors under him catering to north.south.east.west.
there are franchisees under the sub dis catering to a particular city or district.
the distributors have low margins ,the franchisees have larger margins and the retailers[panelists] have the largest margins.
of course the distributors and franchisees must have signed lengthy contracts.remember they are all registered in india.
why haven’t YOU asked this question before?rest assured all your queries shall be answered as time goes by.c’mon and think up now.
so now i am the spokeswoman for saol?i have been sent over by the high command to plant stories here?
tsk tsk,whatever will you think up next?
Everybody already knew Speak Asia’s business model, it’d been up on their website unchanged for almost a year. The focal point was clarifying and answering questions on who their clients were following companies mentioned as customers of Speak Asia denying any involvement.
Ultimately the company lied and this was huge news. Nobody cared about the business model as we already knew and understood you recruit people and you get paid big commissions.
They didn’t have to, the structure of the company had been on Speak Asia’s website unchanged for nearly a year! Everybody there clearly understood how the company worked. We’re not talking uneducated farmers in villages here, we’re talking educated journalists and a relatively simple business model to grasp.
New members come in and everybody gets paid.
Pretty much, we’re just going through the motions now… or waiting for Speak Asia to come up with whatever nonsense they are going to present to the RBI.
If they had clients the entire process could be done and dusted within 24 hours. The RBI gave Speak Asia two weeks and it seems they’re taking full advantage of the time period given to them to come up with whatever fluff they can.
You guys can go and file petitions and PIL’s with the authorities with twenty four hours of announcing them but Speak Asia can’t present simple business records indicating who their clients are and the balances made from the sale of survey results in under two weeks?
Because the investigations are ongoing and Speak Asia hasn’t made it easy. Their CEO’s are in hiding and the authorities have had to instead rely on their own sources and what they’ve gleaned from who’s left in India.
People who no doubt claim to know nothing (such as the panelists Bahirwani was banging on about at the press release), making the investigations all that much harder. Like you said, word gets around, but not having an official position within the company means there’s nothing stopping people from pretending to be mere panelists and obstructing investigations.
Speak Asia’s management and member’s hate for the authorities, who are constantly referred to ‘the enemy’ in some sort of misguided war Speak Asia’s members see themselves in, is no secret.
See above. Speak Asia is clearly working hard in the hope the authorities will put this into the ‘too hard’ basket and move on.
If that were to happen, you people would be crying about how the authorities never even gave you a chance. The RBI has given Speak Asia two weeks to respond.
We’re all awaiting Speak Asia’s response.
No, the above was my opinion. Get over it.
Not everything is a conspiracy theory against AISPA and Speak Asia.
Up until a few days ago, I can confidently say that the franchisee side of the business, along with the alleged seperate compensation plan was never made public.
Speak Asia always presented themselves as a ‘the largest panelist community (or sovereign consumers once it was established they were lying about their survey clients) in India’. They never mentioned franchisees on their website or in their official compensation plan documentation. Nor was it presented publicly as an entry point into the company via the Speak Asia website.
So you yourself are admitting you’ve never seen any official documentation outlining a compensation plan or business structure for franchisees.
Brilliant.
Is it possible that neither you or myself have ever seen one that there simply isn’t one?
Sounds to me like a bunch of panelists bought a whole bunch of memberships in order to earn the commissions of them and then decided to call themselves franchisees in order to try and sell the memberships (pins) to new members (given they’d paid a wholesale cost for them, most likely at a discount rate than a new panelists membership from Speak Asia themselves).
That’s an educated guess.
Because it has never been mentioned before, nor was it featured on the Speak Asia website or in any compensation plan documentation or anything referring to Speak Asia’s business model.
Evidently Speak Asia did a pretty good job of keeping their franchisee agreements ‘off the table’ and unofficial. There might have been zoning agreements in place internally, but none of this was presented to the public.
Asking rhetorical questions is a waste of everybody’s time, stick to the discussion at hand.
Also I remember you mentioning a panelist can only have 3 sub panels. This is wrong. The compensation plan stated you can have up to 9 sub panels as a premium panelist.
Each Premium Panelist can have 3 Premium panelist accounts, and a grand total of 27 sub panelist accounts themselves.
Yes, one person can submit 27 survey responses… is it any wonder Speak Asia don’t have any credited commissioned survey clients?
over the last few days i have had many avataars.
first i was male. then ashok bahirwani .then manoj kumar.now corporate spy.
chang you got to stop complaining about some petsy names.
so now eow cannot find proof because the company is not actively helping them to do so
LOL
so now the panelists have tied the eow’s hands behind their backs and the poor guys[wanna adopt?]cant work.
LOL
pssst.see the press conf again .we’re the poor guys who are being arrested.
if the eow cant find proof, it’s probably because there is NO proof. ever consider that?
your educated guess is merely BS.you dint know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.
the distributors and franchisees are registered entities which is not possible without signed contracts.you dint know.get over it.
Uh.. what are you talking about? You asked why it’s taking them so long to do anything, I said they’re investigating and investigations take time. Longer when a company isn’t co-operating (having your CEOs hiding overseas and obstructing investigations from afar won’t make things go any faster).
I note Kasey has had similar problems with you making up quotations based on what was actually said to you. I’d ask that you actually read what is written in response to you and reply accordingly.
Accusing people of stating what they didn’t only serves to make you look rather stupid.
What on Earth does being arrested for being involved in a pyramid scheme have to do with a press conference?
If they had clients the entire process could be done and dusted within 24 hours.
emmm?exactly where should saol have gone to be dusted down and come clean?
they tried press conf-got shouted down.
they wrote to the pmo[prime ministers office] and the pmo neatly filed away their plea to read on a rainy day.
they approached the mca[ministry of corporate affairs],who shrugged them off saying it was not in their purview.
they approached the rbi which sat on it’s hands.
some ngo writes to rbi ,they spring into action and trot off a C letter to the bank.
on the whim of the ngo the rbi gets the bank to close saol’s account.they could have had the decency to invite saol and hear their side of the story.
the courts knock rbi on their heads and force them to meet with saol.
finally after 4 months saol has managed an audience with the powers that be.
this is where the dusting down will happen.
saol will come out all clean and shiny faced because 2 million panelists believe it is.
To the RBI, they’re the ones waiting on a reply.
I imagine this would satisfy the EOW too.
None of those actions were simply providing records indicating that Spek Asia made more from selling survey results to companies than from new memberships.
I actually went back and looked at what Kumar said. His defense was that Speak Asia did surveys on those companies, no doubt with the intent to sell the survey results to the companies.
Of course if the company doesn’t buy (why would they when one respondent can respond 27 times) then there’s nobody to sell the surveys to.
I’d guess that to keep the membership money rolling in, Speak Asia just continued to make up surveys about companies that were never commissioned. That’s why this has been dragging on for so long as the company itself is having great difficulty presenting anything official that proves otherwise.
Instead they run around like idiots claiming nobody gets their business model or compensation plan.
What two million panelists believe does not alter a compensation plan and business model, nor does it change the facts infront of us. I personally can’t wait to see Speak Asia’s response to the RBI, it’s going to be either full of irrelevant explanations of their business model or they’re going to come up with some bullshit reason about why they can’t respond.
If they prove they’ve been selling surveys to clients and generating more than they’ve brought into via memberships I’ll be the first to write about it.
i personally can’t wait to see Speak Asia’s response to the RBI,
congratulations dear soapbox.exactly my sentiments!
finally we agree.
You are confused and delirious. I have NEVER accused you of being anybody else. YOU are the one who hang titles on me, like “Amway Overlord”. Or is your memory that short and selective?
You mean they are NOT believed in a press conference. How can you get shouted down at your own press conference when there is nobody to compete with for attention?
As if PM’s office will do anything to interfere in a criminal and civil investigation…
So SAOL admits it is an India company and now wants MCA recognition and protection?
They got that meeting, and it was DELAYED AT SAOL’S REQUEST.
It was CID that froze the bank account, and SAOL’s lawyers got the freeze lifted for 3 weeks, during which over 100 million USD leaked out to Singapore.
A meeting that was then DELAYED BY SAOL.
Because 2 million people will it so? I think that’s called faith, which is not logical.
A meeting that was then DELAYED BY SAOL.
you keep repeating this but have no proof .
I have NEVER accused you of being anybody else.
pardon me? when did i say specifically YOU accused me.
soapbox insinuated that I was ashok and observer insinuated i was manoj .
don’t be so petty Mr.Amway Armour.
SAOL is under investigation as illegal scheme in multiple states in India.
name them.
SAOL’s lawyers got the freeze lifted for 3 weeks, during which over 100 million USD leaked out to Singapore.
so why are haren and manoj still fighting?they should have been in the bahamas by this time?they can go someplace else and run their little scam?why take on the might of the indian govt?
I think that’s called faith, which is not logical.
ever heard the saying ‘faith can move mountains’
As much as you lot hate them, Moneylife are a credible publication… proof enough.
Nobody has refuted this fact other than Speak Asia’s members unofficially doing so because they think the media are out to get them (when they’re not politely being asked to attend AISPA press conferences, the result of which which were spectacularly anti-climatic).
Not even Speak Asia themselves have officially denied delaying the meeting.
Speak Asia have had ample time to take action against Money Life or anyone else publishing so called lies against them. I remember the idiotic claims made by members that the company were going to sue everyone for negatively reporting on them and to date nothing.
Unless you’ve got proof contradicting what is reported, you’ll accept what is reported as fact. Or convince Speak Asia to legally challenge what is published.
Moneylife didn’t present the delay as an opinion, they presented it as fact.
Uh… ok then.
Who says they aren’t?
For the moment it’s more likely profitable to keep the legal nonsense going on the hope a pyramid scheme will make it through India’s legal system and prevail.
The alternative is 1.8 million (or 1.2 million as seems to be commonly cited as of late) Indians and a judicial system baying for your blood.
Not withstanding Manoj Kumar’s immediate and greater family still residing in India, and the possibility of someone higher then Kumar and Kaur pulling the strings knowing full well if they walk they will be outed by angry members. Members who only keep their silence whilst the hope that Speak Asia will resume operations lingers.
i was reading your writeup on monavie as i got a call today inviting me to a monavie meeting. nobody is going to drink such expensive juice in india so i’m not going.
what shocks me is that a company can overprice a product by a factor of almost 8-10 times ,put a spin on it, and sell it, and that it is a fine healthy mlm?
if you find saol immoral you should find this too to be equally immoral.even here money is merely exchanging hands under the guise of some colored flavored sweet water.
saol first created a huge market for itself ,and then went around sourcing products for this market, so that it could convert it’s market strength into a very REAL price advantage for it’s panelists.i find this much more moral and upstanding.
‘Immoral’ is not neccesarily ‘illegal’. Stop trying to draw bullshit comparisons.
As much as I might agree Monavie is overpriced, it’s still a tangible product I can purchase without joining the company (retail) and use.
We’ve already had Amway, and now you’re trying to compare a juice product company with a pyramid scheme. Speak Asia’s product isn’t overpriced… the problem is they have no product. You’re selling memberships.
You admitted that yourself with the whole franchisee thing, franchisees buy memberships and resell them (call them pins or whatever, each pin is still a membership account to Speak Asia).
you keep missing the point.
the franchisees sell pins to an ezine.in todays day and age a product is not always ‘tangible’.the ezine is as much a product as your sweet water bottle and can be bought independently .an invitation to participate in company’s activities is just that-an invitation.you cant stop people from inviting you, use your power -decline.
No they don’t, and I can’t believe we’re still discussing this – THEY SELL MEMBERSHIPS!
Be that as it may, it’s not what is being sold, memberships to Speak Asia are and that’s evidenced by the fact that you cannot purchase an e-zine subscription without membership to Speak Asia.
You cannot purchase an e-zine without joining Speak Asia and handing over your details as membership.
It’s right there in the compensation plan, end of story. Yes I can purchase the e-zine and ignore it, but I’ve still purchased membership into the company, which is in reality really what was sold to me since I have no alternative option seeing as the e-zine is distributed to Speak Asia members only
You have no proof it did not happen either. In this case, it was published by Moneylife, which had INFINITELY more reputation than SpeakAsia. Enough said. Unless you can provide proof otherwise, it’s your word against theirs, and their reputation is better than yours.
Your selective memory is amazing, as this is what you wrote:
Clearly, your memory is excellent only when it serves your purposes.
Didn’t police from other states are waiting for the folks who got bail? Again, your selective memory is betraying you.
That’s not what we’re discussing. You were claiming it was EOW and RBI who froze the account. You, upon being proven wrong, tried to derail the discussion by speculating as to motives of Haren Kaur and Manoj Kumar. We don’t need to know their motives to document the fraudulent behavior of SpeakAsia.
Only in songs and prayers, not in business. Just because a million people believe in a fraud doesn’t make the fraud legal.
They at least have a real product, that can be purchased and consumed, and they are able to convince people to pay top dollar for it.
None of this “conversion” thing was mentioned until AFTER the “great reveal” press conference and AFTER the investigation began. You are jumbling timelines and trying to derail the topic.
you believe what you want to believe.
i will believe what i want to believe
there’s really no resolution to this.
check out this link
http://bombayhighcourt.nic.in/casequery_action.php?auth=bV9zaWRlZmxnPU9TJm1fZmlsX25vPTAxNTA0MDIxMDAyMDExJm1fc3I9UyZtX3NrZXk9UyZtX25vPTIxMDAmbV95cj0yMDExJm1faGM9MDE=
see?
slowly and steadily it will be proven that we are on the side of the truth.
our courts are so bogged down that cases like these take aeons and aeons to reach judgement.
you can believe moneylife and i can believe our lawyers phoenix law [top five in india].I can bet they have a much better reputation than moneylife.plus they are handling the case themselves.straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
No sorry, you don’t get off that easy.
There is cited credible proof against your word, and you have nothing to back up your claims.
You are wrong.
Who are all those people and what is ‘Media Content and Communications Services Pty Ltd’?
I know it’s in pre-admission, but any idea when it’s up? There’s no accompanying documentation, for all we know it has nothing to do with MoneyLife or anything related to the discussion here.
@OZ — Media Content and Communications Services is the parent company of Star News, the folks that first broke the story that SAOL is a scam.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=22571620
So until then, it’s a draw. 🙂 Of course, launching such a lawsuit is a long ways from WINNING such a lawsuit.
star news did not BREAK the story that saol was a scam,star news were first to DECIDE that saol was a scam.
you have to see their reportage to believe the depths of depravity they fell to.
winning this lawsuit ?wont happen in this lifetime.it will probably take years just to get admitted in court.
i told you the press is scott free in india.getting them is so so time consuming it’s a wonder people even try.
slowly and steadily it will be proven that we are on the side of the truth.
i said the above in the context that you guys did not believe such a lawsuit existed.
this is just one little step in further showing that saol is not lying ,if it says it has filed a suit ,then it has.
also on an unrelated note ,soapbox’s contention that manoj kumar is taking on the indian govt to secure his family in india is pretty lame.
the eow already picked up his homemaker wife and minor son and took them on a free ride from delhi to mumbai and back .they subsequently released them because they could not manage any reasonable excuse to further harass them.IF they are still in india ,there are other ways to quietly move them out of the country.
i don’t think manoj kumar is worried about assorted uncles and aunt’s and nephews, because the eow cannot possibly harass them without reason.
ashokji is currently uploading a writeup on the exact status of all cases related to saol.read it and brush up on your GK.
after saol secured bail from mumbai and thane[both maharashtra] and further vijaya wada and hyderabad [both andhra] which other police from which other state is investigating?
there have been no fresh fir’s filed anywhere else.two states cannot be said to be’ multiple ‘states.
amway is being investigated in andhra.
saol is being investigated in andhra and maharashtra.we got the extra special maharashtra package[free!] because our dear friend kirit somaiya operates here and can pull any number of strings.
What was that expression? You say po-tay-to. I say po-tah-to. Same difference.
I believe Oz linked to it. So watched it already.
There’s really no point for you to claim “depravity”. We already know you don’t trust the media. I guess you couldn’t resist putting in another insult.
I’ll give you that one. Dictionary definition says “multiple” must be MORE than two. 🙂
@Kasey
So nobody is suing MoneyLife then. I’m more than happy to quote them as a reputable source so for me that’s enough to cite them with credibility.
Till I hear otherwise from a reputable source that Speak Asia didn’t postpone the meeting, the statement stands as fact.
@anju
Fair enough, but it’s existance doesn’t automatically negate the possibility that Speak Asia is indeed a scam. It certainly doesn’t mean they’re not lying about their survey market income.
I don’t know the particulars of the case but thus far nothing has been released by Speak Asia convincing me it’s not just a giant money game. If all they’re objecting to is being called a scam, I imagine the case isn’t going to be worth pursuing at the conclusion of the other ongoing cases.
I wasn’t insinuating the government would do anything, but rather highlighting what 1.8 million angry Indians were capable of.
What was it, they made a silly flash game where you literally shot at the heads of people calling Speak Asia a scam a few months back now didn’t they?
That was created merely on the allegations of a scam. God knows what’s possible if the memberbase turns against the company as a result of the fallout of a final court decision against Speak Asia.
I’ve seen a few dates mentioned in the first half of October… should be an interesting month whether this goes for or against Speak Asia one way or another.
this is not cambodia.
even if speakasia goes down everybody and their families will never be threatened by any speakasian.
we are the educated middleclass of india .this is india not pakistan.
if speakasia goes down we will hug manoj kumar and say WELL FOUGHT!
Seriously… have you seen the vicious vitriol AISPA and Speak Asia’s members flood the internet with on a daily basis?
‘we’re at war!’
‘the enemy this, the enemy that!’
‘(insert public figure who criticises Speak Asia here) must die!’
‘RIP THEIR FUCKING NECKS OFF AND SHIT DOWN THEIR THROATS!’
I’m taking some liberties but it’s been quite the orchestrated campaign those following this over the past few months have witnessed.
If Speak Asia is legally declared a pyramid scheme, where is all that anger and frustration going to be directed?
Ah, the belief that the pyramid scheme business model is somehow worth fighting for, despite it being illegal the world over.
Well… except maybe in Cambodia.
ha ha ha !
that’s just the way we talk .we watch too much tv and have been learning from star news and cronies.
we’re just DRAMATIC , don’t take it so seriously.unless it’s politically instigated indians never resort to violence.
remember,we threw out the british with fasting and praying?
that’s the kind of WAR we like.
a war without violence is nonetheless a war.
if speakasia loses this fight all the anger and frustration will be laid at destiny’s door, and we’ll all be off, getting on with our lives.
till then we shall fight this WAR and do our damnest to WIN!
Apparently some Indians take a more active approach against scammers…
http://www.manipur.org/news/2011/02/18/kcp-mc-warns-network-agents-to-surrender/
Come on now they’re peace loving Indians… it’s just the way they talk.
I’m sure the KCP(MC) just want to give the leaders a hug.
Check this news : http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_speakasia-investors-pocketed-rs1052-crore_1592858
I suspect this Anju is also among the top panelist/AKA hand in glove with the promoters… but sooner or later… Law Enforcement will catch up…
On Sept 24, 2011 I wrote that during the sting operation, another mastermind of similar scams had stated that SAOL mastermind had siphoned off Rs 1000 crore. This is now corroborated by DNA reported figure of Rs 1052 crore.
The Bhaskar has reported closure of Admatrix. Ram Simran Pal, the alleged mastermind behind SAOL and Admatrix is reported as absconding.
Anju wrote on Sept 24, 2011:
This is being provided to reinforce riyfkm’s remarks.
read about the kcp
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/manipur/terrorist_outfits/kcp.htm
apparently you wish to compare 2 million educated law abiding citizens to some marginal terrorist organization.
I think our anti terrorism forces are dealing with them quite nicely and killing them off with frequent regularity.
our north east has been plagued by terrorism and secessionists since independence [no thanks to big bro china].
this has nothing to do with the larger picture of india and nobody knew the kcp existed till you concernedly pointed it out .thanks for the GK.
reality check.
‘this anju’ joined saol in april 2011 and has a downline size of 0[zero aka zilch].
if the eow wants to arrest me for supporting saol ,i recommend riffraff and observer to do some carpooling and drive the eow over personally[tea and snacks on the house people!].
the dna report says top leaders have made serious cash they havent said one fellow pocketed everything.won’t there be fat cats in amway or monavie or any other mlm who have made serious money by
1]joining up in the early days.
2]getting out there and selling 24/7.
it is a known fact that mlm can bring in the money like most other businesses cant.why is everybody so wide eyed with shock and awe? don’t they know their mlm. should they go back to school?
i love the way people keep hiding in the rafters here and emerge suddenly to make borderline threats to me.i am scare.wheres my daddy?
so we can thus surmise that speakasians are not really a threat to anybody but the people trying to pull us down are the real threat.are you kcp?
I just love how everytime the EOW or RBI talk to the media they absolutely contradict all the spin and bullshit Speak Asia themselves put out in the interim.
Quite obviously the EOW are doing much more than just sitting around wasting time until the hearings as Speak Asia would have you believe.
No doubt we’ll soon hear about how DNA are lying and that the EOW spokesperson is defaming Speak Asia and how they’re going to sue them to the moon. Oh and probably a new press conference too… because it’s impossible as far as AISPA is concerned that any panelists were in on it at a management level.
I’d love to hear Anju’s take on this Ram Simran (it appears his name is spelt Ram Sumiran Pal?) Pal guy. No doubt his importance in the scheme will just be brushed off and he’ll be portrayed as a mere innocent panelist who knew nothing.
@anju
Probably, but what does that have to do with Speak Asia?
In Amyway you sell household goods, in Monnavie you sell juice… in Speak Asia you sell memberships.
Membership to something is not a product or service.
Please don’t waste your time stating otherwise as we’ve already had this discussion.
Anyone able to translate that from Hindhi? It mentions hotels and Ram Sumiran Pal.
There’s also a boatload of conversation there too – http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=260997453928920&id=121965407832126
hello! what was the purpose of the aispa press conference?
we wanted to tell everybody that despite stating in the high court that they want to protect the panelists, the eow now wants to arrest panelists.we knew where the eow was headed.there is no surprise element here for us.
the eow has to file it’s charge sheet by october end .with one month left to go they have entered the last phase of their investigation and are now targeting panelists.
seems they haven’t found any thing substantial from the company personnel,the company books ,the company website,the franchisees computers etc .
so now they will pick up a bunch of panelists and spend some taxpayer money flying them around between andhra and mumbai.
they get free food and lodging too.
if this makes our eow happy so be it.we love our eow and will always work toward making them happy and fulfilled.
i have spoken to a senior speakasian about this ram person. hope to get a call back soon.
To carry on about how innocent all the panelists are… and attempt to use their economic plight to prematurely kickstart the operations of a pyramid scheme under the presumed assumption it would be given legal clearance to recommence operations.
They seem to be doing the best they can granted Speak Asia’s CEO’s are hiding overseas and not voluntarily giving up any of their banking details or information.
If they were assisting, the EOW wouldn’t have to send off letters to the Singapore government requesting this information.
Clearly you don’t understand the meaning of “some”.
Once a member joins up and pays a fee of Rs11,000, SpeakAsia allows them to respond to market research which clients want conducted. Members also earn reward points that can be encashed for giving opinions on product and other promotional strategies,” said Himanshu Roy, joint commissioner of police, crime.
the above from todays dna.
this is the only part of the report that interests me.
the joint commissioner has abstained from saying ‘fake survey’s and also uses the phrase ‘which clients want conducted’.
this is the real news which we are waiting for.
the rest is all expected balderdash.
i will attempt to make the hindi translation of your post
last night on a highway hotel i held a party which was attended by the following
ram surinder pal ,sudesh raadhe,machinder vaikar,dr. vishwakarm.
we spoke for about an hour during which they told me that they along with some other panelists had gone to the eow day before yesterday to explain how a franchisee functions.
how do you run your franchisees
what formalities do you complete for becoming a franchisee
do you pay sales tax and income tax
so these people explained in detail the above to the eow.
done.
not word for word but pretty much so .
i don’t know if this is true. i’ll try and find out.
Well it shouldn’t be… seeing as he’s not in the EOW.
Perhaps he’s saving the negative for the court room. Wouldn’t want Speak Asia and AISPA crying about how nobody ‘gets it’ all over again.
got the call back from my speakasian friend.
ram is one of the oldest franchisees of saol and has made a boatload of money.
on aug 8th 2011,the eow had summoned all saol franchisees to their office in mumbai.
all the franchisees duly turned up from all over india [voluntarily].
ram was also there and was duly questioned.nobody was arrested and everybody was left off by late evening.
i reiterate. ram is no mastermind .he is a franchisee.he is not running things.
either ,hiding in the rafters ,observer should back up her conspiracy theory with solid proof or shutup about it.
Well if his brother runs AdMatrix, that certainly adds a lot of weight to the claims made by that guy on the Bloomberg show.
AdMatrix have been connected to the funneling of funds out of India and into Singapore by Speak Asia, which would be all the more easy to do if your brother was running AdMatrix.
Did your contact confirm Ram is indeed hiding in a hotel in Mumbai? And if so state why?
i don’t see why company officials and top leaders are expected to put up tents and live outside the eow.
pending the end to all this nonsense, if they have gone off on a vacation who can you blame?
why cant the eow send it’s teams from street to street,city to city,hotel to hotel looking for them.
or put out arrest warrants?they love arresting people and flying them around don’t they?
this is the only part of the report that interests me.
of course joint commissioner roy is eow.
…seriously, a vacation. That’s what your running with.
Oh dear.
Im not aware of who works for the EOW, I thought the fact that DNA specifically mentioned EOW officers and police officers meant they were working for different departments.
Anju says:
Oz has quoted DNA:
During SAOL Seminar held at Shanmukhanand Hall on April 26, 2011, COO Tarak Bajpai very reverentially introduced Ram Sumiran Pal as Apex Panelist (initiator of the pyramid scheme).
Ram explained the initial confusion and difficuties when he started enrolling panelists. He ended his speech with his claim that he was nearly earning Rs 30 lakh every day because of his being at the top of the pyramid. There was thunderous applause from the packed Hall.
(Incidentally, this very expensive Seminar was sponsored by Suresh Padhey,one of the four gang members who were present in the dinner after their EOW encounter.)
Taking Bloombeg sting operation revelations as the central theme which is getting corroborated as more and more evidence is emerging from independent sources, the overall current position is as follows.
Ram Sumiran Pal is undisputed grand mastermind behind SAOL and Admatrix. He cleverly added 850 fake and also free IDs below him. As a result he was fraudulently earning huge recruitment commissions and his gang members were also earning but at a much lower scale.
Out of Rs 1052 crore earnings by the gang, Rs 1000 crore (as revealed in Bloomberg sting operation) was looted by Ram through his 850+ IDs.
In July 2011, when it became clear that it would not be possible to continue with the fraud, a new website was created in a hurry (without putting product details)and migration to SAOL’s new website was made subject to the panelist keying in his bank details. If the mastermind did not enter bank details for his 850 fake IDs, then these IDs will vanish forever alongwith the trail of the looted money. A great mastermind at work !
Anju will continue to reiterate “ram is no mastermind” and won’t mind lobbying for him till the very end. After all, Ram can afford clever spin masters.
That’s some astute observation there ‘observer’. Have you informed the relevant authorities of this angle?
I’d hate for the court cases to roll on over the next few weeks without having all this at least investigated.
Sounds a lot like TVI Express, with Tarun Trikha early on claiming just to be a distributor, and part of the “advisory board”. There was even a fake biography online where he claimed he was nothing until he encountered TVI Express. And he got 250000 downlines.
http://tviexpressteamasia.blogspot.com/2010/11/tarun-trikha-in-tvi-story.html#more
Only when it becomes impossible to disguise the fact any more, about 2 years into the scam, did Tarun Trikha remove himself from advisory board, and a few months later, reveal himself to be CEO of TVI Express, and a “parent organization” called V2 Global.
Clearly, these folks work off the same script.
Another one arrested http://zeenews.india.com/business/news/news_content.aspx?newscatid=3&newsid=31396
I am sure Anju will defend him as totally innocent like a small baby…
so haren and manoj are mere fronts ?
they have been hired by ram pal as clever spin doctors?
on an unrelated note thanx for calling me clever too. i’m virtually building a list of compliments you can’t seem to stop giving me .
maybe ram pal is the first franchisee of the company.maybe tarak bajpai loves and ‘reveres’ him.which company can afford to ignore an outperforming franchisee.
i think saol was making lots of money. whyever would they require a panelist to pay for hosting a seminar ?you had to buy tickets to attend that seminar and the one held at talkatora stadium in delhi.the collection on tickets alone would have covered the costs of the seminar and maybe still leave a small profit.
do you think the eow is raving mad ?ram pal walked into their office of his own volition.they would have chained him to his chair there and then.
all this hoarse whispering of observer about ‘mastermind’ seems like a delirious daydream of someone with nothing much to do . what are you doing here? you should be outside the eow office demanding an immediate audience.
haren and manoj will pat you on your back and ‘reverentially’ thank you for getting them off the hook.
about that so called ‘sting operation’ all i see is two shady guys in a low lit room with a handycam.their girlfriends must be relieved that all they were doing is talking.
without PROOF any conspiracy story is just a story.i’ve been told that myself,any number of times, when i try to blame people for saol’s troubles.
riffraff it ain’t my fault if the eow is tearing around arresting people.any innocent baby who ‘speaks(in)asian ‘will probably also get arrested.
let the eow do what they’re doing.after all they are paid by taxpayer money so they have to appear very busy indeed.
after going around the mulberry bush[mumbai-andhra-mumbai]this poor soul will also make bail.
what can we say?we are helpless citizens ,the eow can harass anybody.
we have faith in our judiciary .all this nonsense will stop sooner or later.
till then let the eow enjoy its free run.
about the alleged 850 blank ID’s my upline doesn’t have a clue.
but logic demands that the eow ,having had access to tarak bajpai for one and a half months, must have surely grilled him to the bone on this.
if he did not give a sustainable reasoning for this ,the eow would have thrown a huge tantrum in court about this, and the judge would not have allowed bail.
Of course they don’t.
Unless of course they realised that Bajpai is just a pawn and they’ve got their eyes set on bigger fish to fry.
These guys do this for a living and I’m sure it’s not the first pyramid scheme they’ve had to investigate. I’m more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this stage.
As I’ve said before, the next few weeks should be interesting.
bajpai will be so happy to know that he is merely a pawn.
i’m getting a nagging feeling here that the eow ,not having been able to establish any credible wrongdoing by the company ,is now trying to use diversionary tactics.
this is actually great for us because it’s further strengthens our belief that we will soon get an upper hand in this matter.
please note that the company is currently engaged in talks with the rbi.
no ansy pansy company would go around forcing the court to force rbi to give them an audience.
if the court prima facie saw something really ‘illegal’ in the company they would have held back their hand till the end of investigations and not ordered the rbi to meet saol immediately.
thank god shady observer[eow spokesperson?]is not in our judicial system.
Another character certificate is available on the following link: http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=fhyMG2Xn658
Suficient material for Anju to start hopping mad again.
Another interesting link:
http://indian-mlm-news.blogspot.com/2011_09_01_archive.html
QED.
There’s one too many co-incidents here from unrelated sources and different timestamps… and it’s starting to make a pretty good case against this Ram Sumiran Pal guy.
I am kind of curious as to how they used Seven Rings to route money if they ran off in 2007, unless of course they kept the company name open in Singapore.
The fact that Seven Rings and Speak Asia operate out of Singapore is also pretty damning.
Here’s a Deccan Chronicle report confirming the ‘Indian MLM News’ blogs claims – http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/hyderabad/interpol-speak-asia%E2%80%99s-trail-526
Also of note;
This perfectly fits the sentiment put forth in the Bloomberg show where the gentlemen predicted the owner would attempt to start a new scam long before the Speak Asia mess was concluded, regardless of how it turned out.
These guys appear to be quite professional, able to operate and start up their new scams quite quickly and irrespective of the trail of financial destruction they leave behind from previous ventures.
Maybe Speak Asia getting too big is what will finally expose and bring them down.
edit: Is this the guy? – http://palkut.com/index.php?do=/group/speak-asia-support/member/
He’s listed as being in India and part of the support team for Speak Asia.
There’s also some guy called Satish Pal listed here – http://palkut.com/index.php?do=/group/speak-asia-support/member/user/browse/view_top/
There’s only three people in the group, Satish Pal, Sumiran and some female account ‘archana’ (is that the sister mentioned?)
Archana Shahi has a Facebook page here – http://www.facebook.com/people/Archana-Shahi/564726205
Ashok Bahirwani and Ram Sumiran Pal appear in her friends list so it’s her.
Someone called ‘Manoj Kumar’ is freinds with Satish, but I don’t recognise the photo at all – http://palkut.com/index.php?do=/manoj_madhur/
How many Manoj Kumars are there in Speak Asia??
edit again: They are all in this group, Direct Selling India – http://palkut.com/index.php?do=/group/direct-selling-changing-the-face-of-india/
Direct Selling India was started by Satish Pal on September 5th, 2010. The group is listed as being in ‘Dubai, India’. Apparently where CEO’s Manoj Kumar and Harendar Kaur are hiding out. Yet another connection!
Aptech tied up with Italy’s Seven Rings International, to train graduates in Soft Skills and Corporate Computing Skill Development. Aptech would be the exclusive training delivery partner for participants of Seven Rings International in India. Aptech & Seven rings announced their first training initiative viz. the Campus2Career (C2C) program.
above is taken from the link
http://www.aptech-worldwide.com/pages/media/press-releases/2008/press-releases-2008-24oct.html
now aptech is UP THERE as far as indian companies go .highly respectable ,top notch and listed on both exchanges.it’s been around since 1989.
why would aptech EVER TIE UP WITH SOME SHADY MLM?
maybe the business failed, but there is a vast difference between a failed business venture and a fraudulent one.
i can’t find any complaints or court cases against sevenrings.
consider this, i am running a business model with a franchisee based model, and my business fails[lack of funds ,lack of oversight, sheer stupidity whatever].
failure is a part of life and people don’t stop trying because of it.
i come back with a big better business plan which is also franchisee based.
whom will i approach first .wont i first prefer to work with my old franchisees[the ones that performed] and drop the ones that let me down.
people build professional working relationships with one another.in sales and marketing it is common to see a team leave with it’s manager to some other venture.
so for people to have a shared working professional history is definitely not a reason for disrepute.
as for fund transfers etc we’ll have to leave that to the eow ,wouldn’t we, seeing that we have no access to relevant documents.
oops!sorry! missed out on the main point of the above post.
manoj kumar and rajiv mehrotra of tulsient were the india heads of seven rings international.
information from the grapevine [trusted but not guaranteed] tells me that ram sumiran pal was a manager in hdfc bank when the mlm bug hit him.
if some mlm’s died on him it’s surely not his personal responsibility.
if i sell amway today ,and shyam sunder of corporate frauds watch gets amway killed off ,i won’t become a criminal mastermind will i?
lets keep some perspective here.
As far as I can tell, Seven Rings had a revolving matrix recruitment driven binary plan that also paid commissions with matrix pairs – the same as Speak Asia did.
I’d say Seven Rings collapsed due to its compensation plan. The company ‘Seven Rings Education Private Limited’ is still registered as ‘active’ with India’s MCA.
Manoj Kumar and Rajiv Rajeev Mehrotra were involved in Seven Rings management, and Satish Pal was heavily marketing it.
Kumar popped up again as the CEO of Speak Asia, almost a year after it had been running.
Preeti Pal and Ram Pal (brother and sister or husband and wife?? Ram also seems to go by the name of Ram Niwas Pal or Ram Niwas Sharma or Ram Sumiran Pal) started doing Admatrix in early March (March 15th?). They were both identified as leaders within the company.
Both Preeti Pal and Ram went into hiding when AdMatrix collapsed. This is why they are reportedly hiding in a hotel in Mumbai.
Ram’s brother, Satish Pal could be behind both operations. He’s hung low but has shown support for SpeakAsia with his brother on the palkut.com social network site. His brother Ram Sumiran Pal started a support speak asia group and his brother joined.
Satish has also published various Pro Speak Asia media on the site.
Money has been funneled from Speak Asia via AdMatrix and Seven Rings and these two are the only names linking up all three companies. The Speak Asia support group started by Ram Sumiran Pal on palkut also lists it’s location as Dubai, where Speak Asia CEO’s Harendar Kaur and Manoj Kumar are supposedly hiding.
I strongly think it’s entirely plausible that the Pal’s are indeed running Speak Asia. The economic link is a strong one and no other names link all three companies.
Furthermore Ram Sumiran Pal and Satish Pal have been listed as team leaders in AdMatrix and Seven Rings respectively, Anju has also confirmed that Ram Pal is very high up, if not the first franchisee in Speak Asia.
This corroborates the Bloomberg tv article interviewee who states that the real owners of AdMatrix and Speak Asia placed themselves high up as members, but not disclose they were management.
Given that Manoj Kumar was kept quiet in Speak Asia I believe he was also in at the top somewhere but for whatever reason (Speak Asia needing a permanent Indian CEO face), he had to come out so to speak. The original plan would have been to no doubt keep Kumar, Pal and Mehrotra’s involvement in Speak Asia quiet.
Their relationship goes back to 2007 with Seven RIngs International.
(edit: I’ve got about 60 windows open and have been researching all this for the past 5 hours or so). I’m going to take a break now but I’ll probably put this all together tommorow in a proper article.
Note that the above is my opinion and educated guess on the runnings of Speak Asia and based purely research I’ve done. There’s just too many convenient co-incidences with these Pal brothers, the various MLM ventures they’ve been involved in since 2007 and random bits of information that have popped up from completely unrelated sources linking them all together.
Oz, please see following link:
http://www.thebhaskar.com/2011/09/blog-post_7491.html#links
It is commented in Hindi that Ram’s wife Preeti Ram Pal was running Admatrix administration from her office and also collecting cash payments there. The person offering his comment has regretted that this scam collapsed too soon at Rs 10 crore level as he expected this scam to yield a respectable figure of Rs 1000 crore (comparable to SAOL scam).
@Observer — interesting, but not verifiable info. Hmmm…
mlm’s arrived with a bang in india around the mid 1990’s.there are over 1500 mlm’s operating here.
in over 15 years the govt has not been able to sit down at a table and write out some laws to regulate this industry. direct selling companies are overseen by an autonomous body called idsa.
it has been left to the acumen of ordinary citizens to decide which opportunity they would like to join.
so on a continuous trial and error basis people keep getting their hands burnt.
in a country like india where neither the govt nor private enterprise can provide jobs for a large number of educated youth an mlm opportunity seems like the only way out for many.
as i see it ,with a rationalistic view as against your sensationalistic view,ram pal,his brother ,his wife maybe his entire family are old mlm hands .hey ,they’re making good money from it they need all the hands they can find.
is it illegal to join an mlm opportunity?the govt doesn’t have time to regulate it so the blame falls on citizens who probably had no choice but to join up.
do you see admatrix approaching the rbi and courts for relief?only a company that is convinced that it has it’s house in order will do such a thing.
in my view pal and his family members and all his neighbors too are free to take up as many franchisees as they want.
it is the govt’s responsibility to see that such companies do not set up shop, not pal’s.
i can also say ,with all the talk i keep hearing,that the pal’s are only franchisees, albeit rich successful franchisees.
they had the EAR of the company management but nonetheless they are only franchisees.
they have worked with manoj kumar in his sevenrings venture and probably got along like a house on fire.
when speakasia was launched they were probably offered the first franchisee ship and they happily accepted.
if they took up the franchisee ship of admatrix too they are perfectly in their rights to do so.
maybe they are franchisees for other companies too?
the pals launched a website called speakindia as a meeting place for speakasians .this was hugely popular but lately with the aispa website and the companies blogsite lots of speakasians have migrated from there.
i have also reason to believe that the management is slightly pissed off with the pals.
Shocking news from Mumbai Mirror: Speak Asia didn’t have clients,surveys were fake:
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2011100120111001020731998a655a9f8/Speak-Asia-didn%E2%80%99t-have-clientssurveys-were-fake.html
This Bahirwani rascal is not telling the truth of what prevailed on Oct 4, 2011 between SAOL representatives and RBI. All negatives posts of insiders at his site were immediately removed.
What I have come to know from insiders at RBI is that RBI told them to go to hell until and unless Haren Kaur is present in person at the meeting as she is the main accused in various court cases on lifting the corporate veil of SAOL.
Another thing is that RBI has the full list of panelists with their bank account details and accumulated RPs. Haren Kaur has to deposit all the dues running into thousands of crores (most probably gleamed by EoW computer sleuths off their website) with the GoI before any matter represented by SAOL will be given a hearing.
RBI has also informed SAOL representatives that government of Dubai and Singapore have been contacted to hand over the fugitive, Haren Kaur.
Jutamaro ‘Joot math bolo..!’, whatever you are telling is full of lie & nothing else, show your original name Jutamaro, “Joot bolne ke liye aayae ho kya..?” That’s why you kept your name as Jutamaro..! Anyhave keep doing your work, you use to do in almost in many forums & comment sessions also..!
Everybody wants speakasia to give back the money, we all are waiting for that eagerly, but people have different point of view..! Let’s wait & see.
I’m still very much confused Jutamaro, Why RBI or EOW is not announcing publicly that SpeakAsia is a Fraud company, why they are not telling that SpeakAsia did fraud & duped this much of amount and those people represented in the management have given Red Corner Notice &
also why they are not uploading their name in the CBI Red Corner Notice List Online? Same thing has happened to nearly more than 560 companies in past one year, nothing has happened like that?
Also, We have to study who is called as a fugitive & to whom & all Red corner notice can be given? Any have lets hope for the best..!
@Roy — while jutamaro’s information cannot be corroborated, claiming he’s “full of lie” would be premature, as you have no information to refute his claims either (other than Bahirwani’s blank void).
right chang!
pal runs speakasia and jutamaro is one hundred percent correct.
giddyup and ride into lala land.
@Rob
The EOW have called out Speak Asia’s fraud twice now. The first was claiming that none of their surveys were commissioned, and instead were prepared in Mumbai, and the second is the allegation of over 800 fraudulent panelist accounts within the company.
MoneyLife introduced a third claim that Sanjeev Dandona confessed that Speak Asia was a ‘ponzi scheme’, but they’ve quoted an ‘anonymous source’ within the EOW (whereas the other claims have an officer name put to them).
Speak Asia have refuted MoneyLife’s claim, but to date neither Speak Asia or AISPA have addressed the fraudulent accounts or fraudlent survey claim directly (Ashok rambled on about how there can be no fraudulent surveys, but didn’t address the fact that the company has apparently lied on multiple occasions now about having corporate clients for its surveys).
if saol wanted to run away with money who would have stopped them? a company not registered in India was doing press conference to clarify its business!!
can u believe its still fighting for its business. why? they have had every opportunity to run away with people’s money & still govt. won’t do anything.
Out of 500 mlm companies govt. or the officials have got just one saol!! strange but true….are the remaining clean or paying ? i bet half of them have literally run away with people’s money but still govt and people like the admin of this website sees only one company saol!!
i m member of Ram Survey another survey company who is still running but not paying since last 5 months. i wonder why no one is taking its name? not even the media or the so-called double standard psuedo protectors of investors or members!
Because management want to continue their scams. Pal and whoever else is above Kaur and Kumar know this is it…. if they don’t defend their scam they’re done.
That and the government have too thoroughly got involved now, if they abandon ship their inner circle will give them up and whoever is still hiding in India will be finished.
What does and doesn’t happen to Speak Asia is not a redemption of any other company. Each is to be taken on a case by case basis. Perhaps the government is looking for precedent with Speak Asia.
There must be over 50 companies by now featured on BehindMLM. Clearly you are blinded by your own bias.
Why every body dose not stop knocking their heads and let them fight their own way?
Cant we leave the environment free from complexes of arguments for sometime? Even if something has to happen right in favor of the system it will be highly affected by conflicting views.
@rajana
Nobody is saying Speak Asia can’t fight their own way, not wanting to scrutinise and analyse them though is just leaving people unaccountable for their actions.
This is business, nobody is unaccountable.
@Chandra
Only English articles please. I’m not publishing anything Hindhi as it’s mostly rubbish and there’s a reason no English source exists.
Daughters being auctioned off to secure a guilty verdict, please. What nonsense.
Dear All
Ram Pal & Sumiran Pal are real brothers and Satish Pal is there friend. Ram Pal & Sumiran Pal was based in Secundrabad and was staying in rented apartment. With a Mumbai based MLM Company they swifted to mumbai.
soon He along with his friend Akshay Thakker started Mihir Virani his 1st MLM Venture as a Director. The company was a fraud. As he understand that running a business with Indian Promoter is not safe. He got in connection with Mr. Manoj Paul through a New Paper Add.
Then they invented an idea that if the Promoter of the company is from outside India it was easy for them to carry out the fraud. Then both this people has promoted Mango, then Seven Rings & then through his brother Sumiran Pal Speak Asia & then Admatrix.
And Sumiran Pal was not manager in HDFC Bank He was initially worked as Marketing Executive to ICICI Prudential Life and then may be had joined HDFC Life.
Ashok bahirwani’s post on various issues:
=========================================
He is not what he is representing himself – a simple panelist.
http://www.speakindiaonline.com/profiles/blogs/speakasia-a-new-comers-view
It is called recruitment scam.
Ashok gives contradictory statement on his own statement!
http://www.speakindiaonline.com/profiles/blogs/reply-to-the-media-i-am-a
It’s not a civil matter from the beginning. The FIR was lodged for cheating someone and then is changed to money laundering case due to evidence collected by investigation agency. So you have spent many years in corporate world and know everything?
http://www.speakindiaonline.com/profiles/blogs/reply-to-ms-deeptiman-tiwary-article-in-mumbai-mirror
Impossible! “We are”? How could you? You are just a panelist, aren’t you?
You have posted something like this “i subscribed to E zine by taking three ids (Tripod) and 4 subpanels under myself” then why you need a subscription?
http://www.speakindiaonline.com/profiles/blogs/misinformation-and-negative-reporting-in-times-of-india-my-reply
By trying to quash FIRs against speakasia?
==========================================
If you look at the current situation then all updates after May 2011 appears to be released by panelists and fake blogs. No company official is saying anything in public to protect the company.
The legal battle appears to be fought by lawyers and some investors. In the end whom you will hold up for all the answers?
However hard the lawyers will try they can never stop the investigation. The courts favor nobody – neither speakasia nor EOW. All the judgments are given based on the facts and figures presented in evidence.
In speakasia case it is impossible for the lawyers to prove a legal business of the company. You can only provide details about what you have done, you cannot say what you wanted to do in the future.
It will take a long time to execute the procedure because the top administrators of speakasia are absconding and it is not possible to complete the procedure until they get nabbed.
Till then new dates will come, one after the other.
@Andy
Yet if you were to believe the updates the panelists and senior panelists provide on Facebook, along with Ashok’s updates and Anju’s on here… anyone would think Speak Asia had been personally congratulated by every police department in India and was due to restart business operations tommorow.
Even now with the RBI wishing to file an affadavit in the SC Solomon James writ 383 case before the next hearing you have clowns on the various pro-Speak Asia Facebook pages suggesting this affadavit will be some sort of clarification that the RBI never instructed banks to block Speak Asia’s transactions.
Something they’ve already been claiming for months and have no need to file an affadavit over (this circular has been admitted into court already I think? And at the very least has been seen by all parties involved).
Then there’s the whole Bajpai filing for anticpatory bail just days after the EOW say they are going to move to get his bail cancelled presumably so that they can arrest him.
And then Ashok Bahirwani running away and hiding out at Aman Azad’s place when he thought the EOW were going to arrest him – turns out they just wanted to interrogate him. Thankfully the court ordered Bahirwani to assist the EOW so now if he runs again he’s done for.
Third interrogation of Bahirwani by the EOW is tommorow… big hush hush as to what it’s all about though.
The police don’t interrogate you in matters related to what they’ve described as ‘the biggest ponzi scheme in Indian history’ to have a cup of tea.