Dubli Review: Recruitment and e-commerce
Dubli operates in the e-commerce MLM niche, with the company claiming to have a corporate headquarters office in Cyprus.
An address in the US state of Florida is provided on Dubli’s website, presumably to plant the seed that the company has a US presence. Further research however reveals that this is just virtual office space provided by Regus (starting at $109 a month).
It’s noted that the images used by Dubli to represent their purported Florida office look nothing like images of the actual office space provided by Regus:
What the story is there I’m not sure.
Heading up Dubli is CEO Michael Hansen (right).
As per Hansen’s Dubli corporate bio,
In 1996, he commenced his entrepreneurial career by developing a successful chain of Mexican themed franchise restaurants which he sold in 1999 to pursue a career in the Network Marketing industry where he achieved the highest position in two US-based network marketing companies, in telecommunications and financial services.
I did see a Michael Hansen pegged to a few MLM opportunities but, due to language-barriers, am not sure if it is the same person. In any event, Hansen went on to launch Dubli in 2003 and has been running the company ever since.
As for Dubli, I first wrote about them all the way back in 2010 – when the company was mostly focused on online penny auctions.
BehindMLM reviews were a bit different back then, so you’ll have to excuse the deviation from the standard most of you are used to today.
I never got around to properly reviewing Dubli’s compensation plan then, as momentum for the company petered out shortly after the initial buzz.
As I recall though, the basic gist of it revolved around the selling of “Dubli Credits”, which were then used in the company’s auctions.
Over the next four years Dubli persisted with their model, occasionally fluttering in and out of the MLM industry’s consciousness.
During this time the company underwent more than a few relaunches in an attempt to get their auction business off the ground, but it wasn’t until 2012 that things began to take off.
As explained in Dubli’s annual report, filed August 2014:
During fiscal 2012, the auctions program generated an increasing number of transactions during the first three quarters and then grew significantly in the fourth quarter.
The fourth quarter growth is attributable to significant discount bonus feature added to each auction by the Company, a promotional device designed to build web site traffic and increased sales of goods and other products.
During 2012, Dubli sold a total of $2.09 billion in auction credits. Quarter 4 alone saw a 1330% increase in auction revenue, $1.9 billion up from $143,000 the previous quarter.
Business Associates affiliated with our network marketing company purchased 96.0% of all DubLi Credits sold in fiscal year 2012.
Retail activity was insignificant.
With Dubli affiliates purchasing credits came commission liabilities, which, despite selling $2 billion worth of credits in 2012, saw Dubli abandon their auctions in 2013:
Although the addition of a random bonus discount that varied from 50% to 90% per auction increased transaction volume significantly which resulted in an increase in gross revenue recorded during the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2012, the profit margin on a majority of the transactions were negatively impacted and less than the expectation as desired by the Company.
Consequently, after conducting an evaluation of the auctions program, we decided to discontinue this part of our business model during 2013 and to focus our resources on potentially more profitable programs for our e-commerce platform.
Dubli’s e-commerce model as its known today was launched March 2013 (it existed previously in different forms, but failed to generate significant revenue):
After we discontinued the auctions program in fiscal 2013, we modified our business model to focus on… selling Premium and V.I.P. Member Package subscriptions to online customers.
That said, it’s only these last few months that the company has gained any traction. As evidenced by recent review requests and a recent schmooze event held out in Dubai, Dubli are now again trying to enter the US market.
I believe this is the first serious attempt to re-establish themselves in the US since the company ditched their penny auctions last year.
Read on for a full review of the Dubli MLM business opportunity.
The Dubli Product Line
Dubli owns an e-commerce platform, which provides access to third-party affiliate deals.
The company offers free customer access to the platform, with customers able to receive a “cashback” on purchases made.
In addition to free customer membership, two paid subscriptions exist offering a higher percentage cashback:
- Premium ($4.95 a month) – regular cashback + 4%
- VIP ($99 annually) – regular cashback + 6%
The Dubli Network Compensation Plan
The Dubli compensation plan pays out on the shopping activities of customers and recruitment efforts of affiliates.
Dubli Affiliate Membership Ranks
There are six affiliate membership ranks within the Dubli compensation plan.
Along with their respective qualification criteria, they are as follows:
- Team Member – starting affiliate rank
- Team Leader – recruit and maintain at least three affiliates or pay between $2475 to $12,000
- Team Coordinator – recruit and maintain at least three Team Leader ranked affiliates
- Sales Director – recruit and maintain at least three Team Coordinator ranked affiliates
- Vice President – recruit and maintain at least five Sales Director ranked affiliate legs
- Senior Vice President – recruit and maintain at least five Vice President ranked affiliate legs
If a Dubli affiliate signs up customers, they earn 25% of the subscription fee paid by Premium and VIP customers.
A 25% commission is also payable on any commissionable revenue generated by these customers.
Commissionable revenue is generated when customers purchase through Dubli’s shopping portal and third-party merchants pay Dubli a commission.
Note that any new customers referred by existing Dubli customers (not affiliates), are tracked to the affiliate who introduced the referring customer. This includes any commissions payable on their subscription fees and shopping activity.
Shopping activity by a personally recruited affiliate’s customers is also commissionable, payable according to a Dubli affiliate’s membership rank:
- Team Member – 5%
- Team Leader – 10%
- Team Coordinator – 15%
- Sales Director – 20%
- Vice President – 25%
- Senior Vice President – 27.5%
Dubli pay out commissions directly on the recruitment of new affiliates.
Recruitment commissions are paid out as a percentage of membership fees paid by newly recruited affiliates.
- Business License – $495
- Team Leader Accelerator – $2475
- Platinum Team Leader Accelerator – $6000
- Elite Team Leader Accelerator – $12,000
How much of a percentage is paid out is determined by how many affiliates a Dubli affiliate and their downline have recruited:
- Team Member – 5%
- Team Leader – 10%
- Team Coordinator – 15%
- Sales Director – 20%
- Vice President – 25%
- Senior Vice President – 27.5%
At the upper tier of the Dubli compensation plan, a Senior Vice President is paid $2750 for each Elite Team Leader Accelerator affiliate they recruit.
A further bonus commission is payable if an affiliate recruits groups of three affiliates within a rolling thirty day period:
- recruit three Business License affiliates = $300 per group of three
- recruit three Team Leader, Platinum Team Leader or Elite Team Leader Accelerator affiliates = $1500 per group of three
Coded Bonus (recruitment and customer commissions)
The recruitment of a new Dubli affiliate always generates a 27.5% commission, paid out of their sign-up fees.
When a Senior Vice President recruits a new affiliate, they are paid the full 27.5%. At all the other ranks, only a percentage of this 27.5% is paid out (see above in “recruitment commissions”).
When this happens, the remaining percentage is paid out via a coded bonus.
Eg. If a Team Coordinator recruits a new affiliate, they are paid 15% of the recruited affiliate’s membership fees.
12.5% remains to be paid out (27.5 – 15), so the system searches the affiliate’s immediate upline for a higher ranked affiliate.
In this example, let’s say the affiliate’s immediate upline was a Vice President. Their percentage payout is 25%, however 15% has already been paid out, so they are paid 10%.
2.5% of the 27.5% total commission still remains to be paid out, so the system then continues to search higher for a Senior Vice President ranked affiliate to pay the last 2.5% out to.
Note that in the above example, if the immediate upline was a Senior Vice President ranked affiliate, they would have been paid 12.5% (27.5 – 15). Given that the whole 27.5% has been paid out, the system would not need to search any higher.
Note that the coded bonus also applies to customer commissions, with 27.5% always paid out on recruited affiliate’s customer shopping activity (see “customer commissions” above).
The Production Bonus is yet another recruitment commission, paying out $500 per ten affiliates recruited into an affiliates downline.
Affiliates are only counted towards the Production Bonus quota if there are no equally ranked affiliates between the affiliate qualifying and where the newly recruited affiliate is placed in their downline.
Note that only Team Coordinator or higher ranked affiliates can qualify for the Production Bonus.
Partner Program Certification
Dubli’s Partner Program involves third-party companies white-labeling their e-commerce platform and signing up their existing customers to it.
Details on this are sketchy. What I was able to ascertain is that a Dubli affiliate needs to purchase a Team Leader Accelerator package or higher to participate.
I’ve seen commissions of up to 30% mentioned on activity generated by Dubli Partners, but no specific breakdowns.
Golf & Beach Resort Promotion
If a Dubli affiliate achieves the rank of Senior Vice President within 30 months of joining Dubli, the company will award them with the title to a house built on property Dubli purportedly owns in the Cayman Islands.
Affiliate membership to Dubli is available at three price-points:
- Business License (basic affiliate membership) – $594 ($99 + $495)
- Team Leader Accelerator – $2475
- Platinum Leader Accelerator – $6000
- Elite Leader Accelerator – $12,000
Note that all affiliates are required to pay an additional $99 monthly fee after their first month.
Apart from the “team leader” packages auto-promoting an affiliate to the Team Leader rank and increasing their commission percentage payout, the only other difference between the packages is what’s bundled with them.
- Business License – 10 annual or 100 monthly trial VIP customer subscription vouchers
- Team Leader Accelerator – 30 annual and 200 monthly trial VIP customer subscription vouchers and Partner Program Certification
- Platinum Leader Accelerator – 30 annual and 200 monthly trial VIP customer subscription vouchers, Partner Program Certification and Partner Registration Voucher (includes first year monthly fees)
- Elite Leader Accelerator – 30 annual and 200 monthly trial VIP customer subscription vouchers, Partner Program Certification, 3 Partner Registration Vouchers (includes first year monthly fees)
Note that with the customer subscription vouchers, a 99 cent fee must be paid to activate them.
The first problem with Dubli is that it has no readily identifiable products or services.
The e-commerce platform belongs to the company, with only Partners who pay to rebrand and deploy it. As far as the MLM side of the business goes, all that’s on offer is access to third-party discounts.
To establish whether any of these offers were exclusive, I randomly picked three third-party merchants in the Dubli Mall and had a look at how Dubli has affiliated with them.
Pet Doors offers a 5.2% cashback, with Dubli affiliated with them through “Affiliate Traction”:
As per their website,
AffiliateTraction, with offices in Santa Cruz California, is the largest multi-national affiliate marketing agency in the world.
We provide all-inclusive affiliate program management and promotional services for global brands and retailers.
Next I looked up “2modern.com”:
The “tqlkg” domain link redirected me to the website of Converstant, who bill themselves
the world’s largest affiliate network, we have a commanding presence in every major product category. Over 50 percent of the affiliate advertisers on the web choose to work with us.
The third company I checked was “bikini.com”. At first I couldn’t see anything in the source-code that openly revealed a third-party, but then I noticed conspicuous HTML comments under the “verifications” section of the code:
Present on all Dubli Mall listings, what you’re looking at there is a collection of affiliate referral codes for the various network Dubli are involved in. If no direct URL for an affiliate network is used, then one of those codes triggers a referral cookie and tracks the sale.
I didn’t look any further than that, but it’s apparent that most, if not all, of the merchants Dubli offer access through their portal is via third-party affiliate programs.
This I later confirmed by going over
As such, a typical purchase through the platform would look something like this:
- merchant makes a sale
- third-party affiliate network collects their fee
- Dubli paid their affiliate commission
- Dubli affiliates paid a percentage of commission Dubli receive
This is additionally confirmed in a 10K filing, also from August of this year:
DubLi offers our own online “DubLi Shopping Mall” that allows customers to search and shop for products offered by various online stores. DubLi is not the supplier of these products.
We provide links to products sold in numerous merchants’ online stores based on the customer’s searches and earn a commission on the purchases made by the customers that we refer.
For all customer purchases that are completed with the respective online store (known as merchant partner in the affiliate network) which sold the product, the Company receives a set percentage based on the completed customer purchase (transaction share) or a flat dollar amount for each transaction that is directed from a DubLi Shopping Mall or Shopping Mall.
Albeit on a much larger scale, this is akin to me signing up as an Amazon affiliate, getting customers to purchase through my link and then offering whatever Amazon pay me as “cashback” to my customers.
Further analysis of Dubli’s Premium and VIP customer subscriptions though is where things start get murky.
One constant I noticed in Dubli affiliate marketing is that the coded bonus paid out on affiliate purchases (up to 27.5% of whatever Dubli is paid), is roughly the amount Free affiliates receive.
As such, I believe the cashback amounts Free members of Dubli receive is roughly the amount Dubli are paid by the affiliate networks they’ve enrolled themselves in.
This begs the question where does the extra 4% and 6% offered to Premium and VIP customers come from?
Taken from Dubli’s FAQ:
Per the Terms and Conditions of both the Premium and V.I.P. Memberships, you are only eligible to receive your annual Cashback after you have subscribed to the membership for 12 consecutive months.
The obvious answer is the $4.95 a month and $99 annual fee these customers are charged.
But if so, then a potential revenue liability exists if a customer acquires more cashback in the 4-6% bonus amounts then what they pay Dubli year on year.
Dubli could be hedging their bets that enough of their Premium and VIP customers aren’t going exceed the amount they pay the company in bonus cashback, but that’s a pretty dangerous gamble to wage your entire business on.
The bonus percentages obviously aren’t coming from the merchant network (see mention of “fixed percentages” and “flat dollar amounts” received from Dubli above).
And if it’s not coming from customer subscriptions, then that leaves affiliates – which is unlikely seeing as Dubli force them to purchase a VIP subscription and pay $99 a month for commission eligibility.
These monthly fees however could be redirected to cover bonus cashback percentage liabilities from the customer network.
With free customer membership still receiving the default cashback amount and not being required to put in any money of their own, I still think Dubli are making these additional cashback amounts up from the fees charged Premium and VIP members.
Possible evidence of this strategy is available with the mention of a loan taken out (from Dubli’s CEO no less) in August:
As previously reported in the Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended September 30, 2012 of DubLi, Inc. (the “Company”), on August 11, 2014, the Company entered into a revolving loan agreement with Michael Hansen, the Company’s President and Chief Executive Officer, who is also the controlling stockholder.
The unsecured promissory note (the “Note”) is for a maximum of $3 million which may be drawn as needed by the Company.
Interest is calculated at 6% per annum from the date of the amount drawn and all principal and interest is due and payable in full on December 31, 2015.
On August 27, 2014, the Company entered into an amendment and restatement of the revolving loan agreement with Michael Hansen (the “Amended Note”) whereby the maximum amount available under the loan agreement was increased by $2 million, for an aggregate amount of up to $5 million.
All the other existing terms of the Note remained unchanged in the Amended Note.
As of August 28, 2014, the Company’s borrowings under the Amended Note totaled $1.5 million.
That loan is barely a month and a half old and it’s already been extended beyond its original agree amount, and half of the initial amount has already been borrowed (and presumably spent).
And I have to mention that I found it rather odd that the CEO of Dubli is making loans (which attract interest) to the company himself. Something about that just doesn’t sit right with me.
By all means go out and get a loan from a bank or what not… but the CEO loaning the company he works for? Yeah, might be legal but definitely doesn’t feel kosher.
As to the loan itself, I only brought it up as a possible revenue source to make up liabilities that arise out of Premium and VIP customers receiving “too much” cashback.
Dubli themselves have no inventory or shipping costs, so other than affiliate commissions what else could be costing them so much so quickly?
In any event, why is any of this relevant?
Well, if they’re hedging their bets on enough customers not making enough cashback to match the fees they pay, this is hardly sustainable in the long-term.
This might explain the need for the MLM side of the business, as one would think Dubli’s e-commerce network should have been taken off by now.
Unfortunately analysis of Dubli’s compensation plan takes things from murky to toxic.
Continuing analysis of the customer subscriptions, the inherent danger Dubli faces is that, in bundling so many subscription vouchers with paid affiliate memberships, there won’t be a significant amount of customers purchasing subscriptions.
Dubli already experienced this back in 2012 when they incentivized affiliates purchasing credits, and although that resulted in a revenue explosion, ultimately commission liabilities (not to mention regulatory liabilities) saw the company pull the plug on the auctions.
With affiliates being given plenty of customer subscription vouchers to splash around, are we going to see a repeat performance?
How Dubli is marketed needs to be paid attention to here, because it’s quite reasonable for the company to claim this latest launch has resulted in thousands of new customer subscriptions going forward.
Who paid for the subscriptions however is ultimately what will count. If most, if not all, of the customer subscriptions Dubli holds were paid for by affiliates, we’re probably going to see a similar scenario to that of Zhunrize.
Zhunrize, another MLM e-commerce platform company, was shut down earlier this week by the SEC.
Like Dubli, Zhunrize also charged affiliates thousands of dollars to participate, however upon investigation by the SEC it was revealed that
substantially all of its revenue has comes from the sale of memberships (referred to as stores) and the corresponding monthly internet hosting fees associated with operating those stores, rather than the sale of products.
If thousands of Dubli affiliates spending at least $594 each to join the company dwarfs whatever Dubli received from its affiliate networks and any fees from retail customers buying memberships, then compliance wise the company has a big problem.
And that’s only one of the significant compliance challenges facing the company.
The other is the blatant recruitment-driven pyramid scheme Dubli have embedded into their compensation plan.
Pay $594 to participate as an affiliate, recruit new affiliates and get paid.
At no point in the Dubli compensation plan (which co-incidentally is not provided openly anywhere on the company’s website), is there any customer requirement pegged to either the amount of customers an affiliate must sign-up, or how much they spend (cumulatively) in the e-commerce platform.
As such, it’s entirely possible for a Dubli affiliate to totally ignore the e-commerce platform and just treat Dubli as a chain-recruitment pyramid scheme.
As I mentioned in the compensation plan analysis of this review, at the top-tier a Dubli affiliate is paid $2750 for each Elite Leader Accelerator affiliate they recruit ($12,000).
Compounding this is the fact that affiliates are wholly encouraged to solely focus on affiliate recruitment, as every affiliate membership rank (which increases an affiliates commission percentage payout), is tied to direct and indirect recruitment.
Nowhere in Dubli’s compensation plan, other than 5% direct commissions at the base-level, are affiliates encouraged to acquire and maintain non-affiliate e-commerce customers.
Under this scenario, one could swap out the e-commerce network because it fails to have any relevance to your typical Dubli affiliate’s focus – other than serving to kill time in marketing presentations.
The e-commerce platform very much feels like the hook here, with the actual guts of Dubli’s compensation plan revolving around affiliate recruitment and compensating affiliates who recruit the most.
The recruitment commissions paid out on affiliate membership fees alone should be enough to trigger a regulatory investigation. Let alone analysis of the e-commerce platform and whether or not it’s actually functioning as advertised.
All in all I’d highly recommend prospective affiliate inquire as to how many paid members (that is members who paid for subscriptions themselves without the use of a voucher), a prospective upline has.
Then weigh that amount against the affiliate VIP subscriptions they have and any non-affiliate subscriptions that originated via the use of a voucher (the upline paid for).
If you don’t see significant non-affiliate funds being generated through the e-commerce platform, then there’s a good chance most of the money being generated is being raised purely on the affiliate recruitment side of things.
And if that’s the case, avoid at all costs.
Dubli is a publicly traded company who are required to make regular filings with the SEC, they’re only going to get away with this for so long before it catches up with them.
I’ll finish up with an appropriate quote from Dubli’s August 10-K filing:
Our network marketing program is subject to a number of federal and state regulations administered by the Federal Trade Commission and various state agencies in the United States, as well as, regulations on direct selling in foreign markets administered by foreign agencies.
We are subject to the risk that, in one or more markets, our network marketing program could be found not to be in compliance with applicable law or regulations.
Regulations applicable to network marketing organizations generally are directed at preventing fraudulent or deceptive schemes, often referred to as “pyramid” or “chain sales” schemes, by ensuring that product sales ultimately are made to consumers and that advancement within an organization is based on sales of the organization’s products rather than investments in the organization or other non-retail sales-related criteria.
The recent flurry of affiliate activity and the likely millions subsequently paid out in commissions isn’t likely to go unnoticed.
Update 27th September 2014 – Regarding the cashback frequency, it’s been brought to my attention that VIP members are paid cashback monthly with a 60 day delay.
Premium members are paid cashback annually but only if they pay $4.95 for 12 consecutive months.
I’ve been waiting for this – thanks so much for your review and analysis. What do you think about some of the names behind the MLM side – ie, Matt Trainer, etc.?
The videos and a personal contact mention you do not at all *have* to recruit customers yourself – in fact, the model at the moment is about completing “tasks” and then getting credit in their “rotator” mechanism to receive random customer commissions that way (rotator starting payment in a few weeks – apparently).
As there’s no detail beyond person-made YouTube videos (look for Team WUKAR), I’m guessing there’s zero guarantee of payment behind that mechanism, and the only payments they’re legally tied to are the DIRECT customer and affiliate referrals?
Couldn’t care less.
Although if they’re behind the comp plan, it’s a pretty piss-poor reflection of their standing in the industry.
A customer rotator? So what, they’re going to turn this into a passive opportunity ala Zeek Rewards?
Sign up, pay fee, dump VIP accounts on company-supplied customer accounts… profit.
Zeek was only shutdown 2 years ago, cmon!
If they’re focusing on affiliate recruitment, customer activity is neither here nor there. Commission generation is tied to affiliates signing up and paying their fees (upfront and $99 monthly).
They can use their vouchers as toilet paper and still collect the upfront and monthly residual commission from recruited affiliates in their downline.
Thanks, this has been really helpful. They’re trying to hook prevously non-MLM people with the spin of you don’t need to recruit any business affiliates OR even direct customers if you don’t want – you can solely just complete tasks for credit in the customer commission rotator and earn money just through some back-end SEO/video task work.
It smellt a bit fishy to me, mostly because there’s no written guarantee, and could easily take your $594 (or $2574), and claim ‘technical difficulties’ to never fulfill the rotator scheme!
That side has not promised big money, and they are quite clear that the big money is in the affiliate/MLM side, but by opinion the appeal to people who would normally not touch MLM with a barge pole, it’s either going to be really good or really bad!! (no prizes for guessing which side you guys predict)
I would be extremely weary of affiliates in a publicly traded MLM company, who are required to file regular reports and declarations with the SEC, that are openly selling customers to their downlines and marketing said company as a passive income opportunity.
Let’s just say Rod Cook are less than thrilled with these folks. There’s news item that DubLi’s head bailed out a scammer from jail, so it’s suspect that the scammer is a highly placed affiliate.
There is a guy out there by the name of Dustin Mitchell, that just got out of jail and is calling himself a vice president of international business developement at Dubli (or something of the sort). Could this be the guy that got bailed out?
He is also saying on his facebook page to come see him speak at the Amway conference in Australia with Dexter Yeager.
I can promise you that Yeager has no clue who this crack pot is, let alone be willing to share a stage with him. He has had VERY little success in ANY of his network marketing deals yet claims (more so that the rest) that he is some highly successful, world renound, sought after, whatever.
Among other things he claims to be
This quote was from one of his profiles and I am quite sure its a complete fabrication. You be the judge.
He eludes to having his own legal team and talks about holding a variety of fictitious titles, degrees, relationships, experience etc.
Here is a quote from ONE of his facebook pages. “James Arthur Ray and Dustin Mitchell are planning their winter tour dates. Would you like us to come to your city?”
I can bet that J.A. Ray has no clue who this guy is.
Long story short its and endless list of complete BS. This person is a deeply disturbed and mentally deranged individual. His antics run far and wide.
If you look him up you will be taken down a path of VERY odd, creepy and disturbing behaviors that are coupled with more than just “false claims” but downright unsettling visions of grandeur. I can almost hear the voices in his head MYSELF when I read some of this stuff. ha ha..
Yes, THIS is exactly the kind of person Dubli likes to do business with. They are a perfect match.
Be careful if you post anything, he may get his “legal team” after you, ha ha.
I just saw someone over on Businessfor Home say that Dubli has a 400:1 Customer to distributor ratio,,, ha ha What a joke. Do those reps actually believe what they say? I have seen people say some dumb things but this one is hilarious.
Try searching for a product online and see if a Dubli site shows up offering that product.
Are they counting the number of Vouchers they give out at signup as customers? Where the HELL to they think they are coming up with that number? Those reps will be lucky to get 2 customers each for that crappy deal.
Even if they DID have that number of registered customers it still wouldnt matter because they wont and DONT use the program. TRUST me, Dubli is the LAST place a consumer is going to go for a deal.
Thank you for the report you hit on some good points here mostly some rif raf drama from the past. One thing though i will say after reviewing the compensation plan, i will have to correct you that Dubli does have customer requirements for affiliates.
Also, each affilate is required to acquire at least 1 new VIP customer per mo. (as in the monthly fee that you mentioned) from what i have read.
Other than that they seem to new in the states and id like to follow this company more to see how they continue to develop. ill report back more to you
The guy that was calling himself the Senior Vice President of Dubli just put a post on Business for Home that he was just “fired” from Dubli. I know the REAL reason he got fired but his delusion is kind of funny.
Now he is calling himself the President and CEO Publisher of Network Marketing Lifestyles Magazine.
Such as? I spent 5-6 hours researching and failed to come across any.
Paying $99 a month != acquiring a VIP customer.
Isn’t James Arthur Ray the guy who killed two people via his “sweat lodge” vision quests through negligence?
Not sure about that one K. Chang. It very well could be.
James Arthur Ray is the former Herbalife speaker who was sentenced to two years following the deaths of three participants in one of his nonsense sweat lodge frauds and is one of The Salty Droids’ least favourite scumbags.
@CommonSense totally not backing DubLi up, but they are *claiming* it’s going to go big with American consumers because they’re essentially recruiting their BAs to do SEO work to get the site viral. Though I don’t doubt most startups MLMs claim this!!
With the revenue streams on the consumer end, is it possible that the percentages they’re paying Free members are *less* than they receive, so the difference is pocketed as income and also used to help pay the difference in percentages to VIPs? Surely that’s the same model as legitimate cashback websites (Topcashback and Quidco in the UK are very successful and there’s no MLM side).
I am not a business nor MLM person & have only been digging into DubLi for a friend, but on the surface, it could ‘work’ simply because other websites have done identical in other markets. Unless of course they don’t care if it works, pull out all the money they possibly can before 12 months is up and leave thousands of “VIPs” without their enhanced cashback payments – which I get is what you watchdogs are predicting! What you want to bet the 25% BAs earn isn’t payable for 12 months either?!
I keep waivering back and forth on DubLi…sounds like there’s some shady people involved and in all likelihood will go tits up inside of 2 years, but seems there’s a *possibility* of a little money to be made if you only dip your toe, keep your head down, and get out quick. *shrug*
yes thats true , because the cash back side seems genuine . but the high membership cost and the commissions paid thereon, is the money making machine .the cashback income may be too piddly to count .
Fortune High Tech Marketing [FHTM] , also had a retail product side, with very small margins , the main earnings came from memberships and monthly fees paid to FHTM. on the surface FHTM appeared legit because of branded retail products, but the truth was those products were not generating sizeable income. FHTM , as we know was shut down.
dubli launched in india in april this year. i found some indian dubli team leaders on the net , and called them . it was sold to me as a recruitment scheme . invest around Rs20,000 and get other people to join .
they threw names like myntra jabong, make my trip , which are very popular online shopping portals . a quick search did not throw up any tie ups of these companies with dubli for cashback . so either it a lie, or it works some other way with these companies, which i am not aware of.
internet shopping is growing but has not yet come of age in india. it’s a little difficult to imagine a middle class person from a small city , going crazy shopping on jabong 🙂
Cashback programs in and of themselves can be successful for the retailers and affiliate with the right marketing and direct relationships with retailers. (ie E-bates)
BUT, If you are trying to make an MLM out of “cashback” alone, especially as a third party It will NOT work. PERIOD! There is NOT enough margin. This is NOT debateable in any fashion. Its just MATH.
Dubli is NOT a viable or practical selling system. In the scheme of things and compared to ligit companies, they move/produce virtually ZERO in dollar volume. Dubli is nothing more than a paid for recruiting, mass signup game.
Ask yourself this: How much sales by dollar volume has Dubli produced for the retailers? How much have end consumers actually spent through Dubli?
If you can even find that ACTUAL number (without it being something someone made up). Compare it to BILLIONS that the legitimate companies that Dubli and the rest of them are trying to copy.
Where is Dubli ranked in any of the retailers reports on who their top referers (affiliates) are? Compare that to the companies that consistantly rank in the top 10.
Trust me, you will not find Dubli on the list at all because the retailers have no idea who Dubli even is.
Regardless of concept, you are NOT going to compete in an e-commerece environment with a few computers and a handfull of people. It takes a HUGE backbone with HUNDREDS of employees, IT people, Marketing departments etc, to get the job done.
It takes MILLIONS of dollars in Server banks and infrastructure. Assembling a few affilaite links and recruiting a bunch of mlm’ers will NEVER cut it. Never has, never will.
Can a company start small and work their way up? YES, but NOT with a business model like Dubli. The pyramid will crash LONG before they build any meaningful equity or buying power into the company that would afford them the people, credibility and infrastructure they need.
You cant build a REAL company just on the money from signing up distributors and they CERTAINLY cant do it on some measly little 3rd party, affiliate comissions. It will NEVER happen the way they are currently setup. NEVER!
just got the dirt from a team leader in dubli :
dubli is in prelaunch in india and will formally launch end of the year .
this guy has a team of 250 people already , his cash back earning for the month of august was 15$ and ‘other income’ was 450$
out of 250 people only 5 people from his team shopped online in august
he was a sweet guy , feel bad ratting out , but this shows how the money flows.
I recently ran across an article that stated, on average, on-line spending is about $1700 a person per year.
Commissions on affiliate programs run from about 2 or 3% on the low end up to 8-10% on the high end (there are probably exceptions, of course).
Let’s say, on average, Dubli is getting 7% of that $1700 ($119)and pays 5% ($85) to the free customers. That leaves them with a profit of $34 per person a year.
And that original $1700 figure comes from shopping the entire internet not just limited to the stores that Dubli has on their site.
JUST for argument’s sake, Let’s say it doesn’t look viable because they haven’t started the intense SEO work to drive traffic – no idea how true, but apparently they do have some pretty decent SEO brains in their employ, and once things ramp up, it could start to drive a reasonable amount of traffic.
I do get what you’re saying, that it’s in no way a long term viable business.
My pet theory is I think the smaller tier early adopter BAs could probably make a bit of money in the beginning – nothing major, just a bit of extra cash in their pockets, but would be wise to cut and run fairly quickly as it will crash out within 1-2 years.
I could be wildly off, just a theory! Probably too optimistic for most, haha.
Allow me to correct an error in the review. I’m not a Dubli distributor on the MLM side, but I am a customer on the cashback side. Meaning, I recently paid $99 for the annual VIP membership to get increased cashback on purchases. Concerning when the cashback is normally paid, this is not correct:
That was actually their answer to this FAQ on their site, concerning canceled memberships:
Here’s the correct question and answer, from their FAQs:
So it’s approx. 60 days – not 12 months – when you’re eligible to recieve your cashback. Big difference, and quite reasonable. (I agree that 12 months under normal circumstances would be ridiculous.)
I’d also like to add that despite buying the annual VIP membership just a couple of weeks ago, I’m already up to over $120 in cashback as you can see here in this screenshot of my account (with more purchases planned):
So speaking only as a customer of Dubli’s cashback program, I’m thrilled with what I’ve seen so far. The purchases are tracked and they typically appear within a couple of days.
I did purchase a washing machine from Best Buy a week ago that hasn’t appeared yet, but they say to allow up to 14 days for purchases to appear. I’ll be happy to report back once they’ve paid my $120 plus to my Payoneer debit card.
Thanks for clearing that up, but I’m still confused by the wording of “annual cashback”.
That wholly suggests that the cashback is paid annually.
There definitely seems to be conflicting information on the Dubli website about this. I’m not at all understanding what cancelled memberships have to do with 12 month eligibility periods.
(If somebody can better explain this to me I’ll update the review accordingly)
Any idea where the extra member cashback funds are coming from? Obviously not the third-party affiliate networks as they only pay Dubli a fixed amount (regular “cashback”).
That’s one of the major problems I see sustainability wise with Dubli’s business model (in addition to the recruitment commissions being paid out on the affiliate end, which you claim you’re not a part of so I won’t ask).
Cashback for Premium members is paid annually. Cashback for VIPs is paid monthly, as shown on their site:
Perhaps that is creating the confusion.
You can ask 🙂 I’m not a Dubli affiliate/distributor, as I stated above.
So Premium customers pay monthly fees, but receive cashback annually.
Well, obviously that’s just there as a donkey option to create the illusion of choice then. Nobody in their right mind is signing up for annual cashback.
Again, thanks for the clarification.
If I may ask, you’re involved in the MLM industry – any reason you didn’t take up affiliate membership?
Agreed, that’s why I chose the VIP option.
Why would someone pay $99 to get the same cashback incentives that other companies give for free?
Oz, yes there is a flat % that retailers pay. Usually the affiliate would keep a portion and give the other portion to the consumer in the form of cashback. They CAN have tiers and allow the consumer to get more cashback. There is a little wiggle room there. This opens up far more questions than it answers though.
By having a VIP level, it generates less commissions for the company or sales force. Hence, the signup fee to help makeup for that.
Beyond that, as a company, you would have to hope that the consumer does not “use” the service to the point beyond breaking even. In fact, from a profitability per transaction standpoint, you would hope they dont use it at all as a VIP.
ALSO, since it greatly decreases group comissions per cashback transaction, income becomes dependent on signing up new customers. There is NOTHING residual about this pay structure. Its all churn and burn baby.
Sure, because in Dubli’s case, I think the product (cashback to customers) offers a much broader opportunity for me as an online marketer than the affiliate side.
By showing customers how they can save money on things they would buy anyway, I’m able to earn commissions without having to recruit or draw circles on a whiteboard. 🙂
Aren’t customers limited to a static $20 a pop on signing up VIP customers? Bit of a short-term opportunity no?
I would MUCH rather have a percentage of every transaction than a one shot $20
BUYing a discount makes no sense at all. And please don’t say buying clubs. They are NOT MLM.
She is definitely smart by not jumping into the business side. No one in their right mind would want to recruit to get paid. Especially if they have to do it on a mass scale and KEEP doing it.
Why do they have to? For example, let’s say you signed up for the cheapest $595 “team member” option.
Tissa has stated she is interested in recruiting customers – so as long as she’s happy to recruit enough to cover her intial fee, so long as her aspirations are fairly low, she could get in, get 25 customers and make $500 profit (=$1125 = $595 fee + $530 profit), plus more down the line from their purchases.
I think SO LONG as you didn’t stick around too long or get too greedy, you could use this launch hype quite well before the company crashed and burned from poor business model.
Perfectly legal, no?
Both approaches are equally valid.
Affiliate marketers usually go for the one-time commission from a sale. Network marketers prefer recurring commissions from one sale. Others like myself fall somewhere in-between.
Each model has its variables, and a lot depends on marketing strategy.
No. But even if it was, you really care that little about your credibility, integrity and ethics?
according to the dubli leader i spoke with yesterday , premium members get their regular cash back monthly , but the extra 4% is paid annually.
VIP members receive the full cashback on a monthly basis.
in india, the joining affiliate Business license is for approx 340$
i was told a guy who was on the board of coke , is on dubli’s board . is this true or hype?
and dubli being a listed company , is one of the highlights of selling the scheme.
tissa’s case shows how valuable the cashback program can be for regular high value shoppers.
if i were a travel agent making hundreds of hotel bookings for my clients , i could forward the hotel discounts to my clients and get cash back in my account for every booking .with a proper clientele a cash back MLM can definitely create value for its members.
Yeah but we’ve already established it’s not sustainable.
The money has to come from somewhere, and with only a fixed amount coming from the merchants (regular “cashback”), the bonus percentages are coming from affiliate/customer fees.
Those funds are already covering recruitment fees and what not so there’s only so much money to go around.
My theory is that this is why Dubli are borrowing from their CEO. They’re hedging their bets on attracting enough customers who don’t receive more cashback then they pay in fees.
Like I said in the review, that’s a dangerous gamble.
ha, i called up myntra customer care , they have NO cash back program at all . they have gift cards and coupons but no cash back .
Or you could do the same thing for FREE through other companies without having to spend $99 to $12,000 for the “privilege”
FYI. the affiliate commission on travel is not based on the total price of the package. If travelocity shows 3% cashback, they are paying 3% on THEIR profit, NOT the total package price. If its a $5000 trip you might get paid 3% on $200 of that $5000.
Moot point anyway.
One direct question from me …
Are you being paid anything EXTRA from Dubli, directly or indirectly, to use the card in a specific way, e.g. do you receive any additional payments other than the $20 recruitment commission and your own cash back?
The reason for the question is that it has always been difficult to find any “only customer, not an affiliate” for Dubli earlier. You fit directly in as a solution to that problem, as a “proof” for “We do actually have real customers”.
I’m not sure which card you mean. I use my usual Visa, MasterCard, or Amex etc. to shop at the merchants.
I’ve opted for Dubli to pay my cashback to my Payoneer debit card, which is a MasterCard that can be used like any other MasterCard.
I do not receive any additional payments from Dubli other than $20 referral fees and cash back from my own purchases.
I’m only a customer. I’m not participating in the affiliate program at all. I created my customer account at Dubli.com; I’ve never created an account at DubliNetwork.com (the affiliate side).
you have probably kept away from the affiliate side of the business to ‘keep your hands clean’.
but could you explain , that as a VIP customer WHERE is your extra bonus 6% cash back generated from ? this is not exactly a cashback , as the vendor is NOT paying it .it is more like a commission from dubli.
according to the law , from koscot thru burnlounge , the non negotiable condition for MLM , is that commissions have to be related/generated from ‘product sales’.
could you explain HOW your 6% bonus is connected to product sales?
She is gaming the system knowing perfectly well that her money are dirty.
The whole ebates system is nonsense. You save few percent of purchases at best, but enticed to spend much more than you need.
As I said earlier. The extra 6% CAN come from the money that the stores pay the affiliates. I am not saying it DOES in this case BUT there is wiggle room there.
Typically an affiliate commission will be 8%. 1/2 of that goes to the affiliate and 1/2 goes to the consumer. If they pay for an VIP membership then the customer can get a higher percentage BUT the “Dubli Rep” would get less towards their commission.
The question is: Does adding the 6% come out to MORE than the store is paying the affiliate? That would take some homework to figure out. Find out who their 3rd party affiliate bank is, (who ALSO takes a percentage) then, do the math from there. All stores typically pay different ammounts. They range from 2% to 12% with the average being somewhere around 8% the last time I checked.
Using Tissa’s list of things she purchased, I was able to find some percentages:
Lowe’s pays out 4% which puts Dubli in the hole for 2%
1800flowers pays 6% which makes it a wash for Dubli
I wasn’t able to find Hyatt Hotels but Marriott pays 3 %
Best Buy pays 5% on appliances (which Tissa said she bought one about a week ago).
Thanks for the revue, Tissa is a guy by the way
You can give this free cashback offer to 1 million people, and only less than 1% of them will use it SOMETIMES
Affiliates are making pennies on customers
Not one single person can show me proof that they are making a living just from bringing in customers
It’s a scheme that will get shut down soon
Yes, but those are standard affiliate commissions typically published on their sites.
Speaking as a long-time affiliate marketer, higher commissions are almost always negotiated behind the scenes based on volume and lead quality. I’ve experienced this personally, and there’s no doubt that companies can negotiate even higher percentages.
Take 1800Flowers for example. Indeed their site states 6% commissions to affiliates, but purchases via ZoolaRewards pay twice that, at 12% cashback:
How are they able to do that?
Membership in ZoolaRewards is completely free, so clearly they’re not taking from membership fees to pay cashbacks. Obviously they’ve negotiated a deal with 1800Flowers or some third-party aggregator based on volume.
A similar scenario is entirely possible with Dubli. I don’t think any of us are privy to what Dubli may or may not have negotiated with whomever.
All I’m really qualified to comment on is that I’m seeing Dubli’s cashback program working very well on the customer side.
I know of bloggers and youtubers that do make money off of affiliate programs (and ads) but I think it’s more in the area of “mad money” as opposed to being able to live off of it.
Plus they have large audiences and their blog and/or youtube channel focuses on a specific topic or closely related topics.
If so, then why the monthly, annual cashback wait? They’d be paying the excess all in one hit.
Additional transactions on their part means more processor fees. Makes no sense.
And they’re offering fixed percentage bonuses on all cashbacks. They can’t negotiate fixed bonuses with all the affiliate networks they’re participating in. The only other fixed source of revenue are membership fees (both customer and affiliate).
right. your example of 1800flowers and zoola proves that .we now have two scenarios:
1]if your 6% bonus is coming from affiliate member fees , then even at customer level, dubli is a pyramid scheme.
2]if dubli has negotiated high commissions from vendors , and your 6% bonus comes from that , then it raises a pertinent question: cashback which should have accrued to free members thru their shopping is being routed to paid members.
for instance , if zoola and dubli both have a 12% commission deal from flower1800 , then zoola members[all free] will each avail of the cashback EQUALLY. however in dubli free members may get less cashback to create a pool for your 6% bonus.
i am sure free dubli members are unaware that their shopping rewards are being stolen from them without their knowledge.
this is clearly a ‘deceptive and unfair trade practice’ under FTC Act 5 .
Federal Trade Commission Act , Section 5: Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices:
this would absolve the customer side of dubli from pyramiding or deception.the affiliate side however, would remain an out and out pyramid scheme.
Regardless a third party affiliate portal is not a viable mlm product
They are a 3rd party affiliate of linkshare and commision junction. The 60 days is the time it takes for linkshare or CJ to bill the merchant, collect the money then pay the affiliate(dubli).
You cannot sell for most of these companies without going through those affiliate managing companies. Dubli is just a 4th party with a active affiliate relationship with a 3rd party affiliate program managing company.
You can join linkshare for free and sell for walmart Best Buy and most other major big box retail and online businesses, and earn a commision of the sales you produce!
Where is the extra 6% cash back bonus of VIP members coming from????
Is it internal revenue (marketers joining)??
If a rich customer buys $10 million of stuff through the portal as a VIP member, then how would Dubli pay this person the cashback??? What about 5 rich people doing the same thing?? 50 people??
The 6% extra VIP cashback isn’t coming from the store like Walmart and Apple … I could be wrong …
That’s my guess.
Dubli themselves don’t disclose this information.
Speaking of ponzies. At 7:17 in a video you’ll hear Tony Rush admit hes made $150,000 and none of it came from the cash back from the tool bar.
He’s making money by enrolling hundreds of people for $2500 each. Thats illegal. Follow the money. You can bet the federal agencies are starting to.
If Rush’s backoffice is anything to go by, Dubli has nothing to do with e-commerce and everything to do with recruiting people who pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to qualify to earn when they recruit people who do the same.
This is just affiliate money being recycled from new recruits to those who do the most recruiting.
people worship Rush and will go all-in $12k just to get his attention to have a chat.
a lot of lives will be ruined by this company. all the people that say they can simply build a customer base without recruiting are heavily trying to recruit.
Looking at the video numbers, I’d be surprised if they were still around this time next year.
There’s the added disadvantage that, being a public company and already having had their hand slapped for something else, they are already on the radar with the feds.
FYI. the affiliate commission on travel is not based on the total price of the package.
If travelocity shows 3% cashback, they are paying 3% on THEIR profit, NOT the total package price.
If its a $5000 trip you might get paid 3% on $200 of that $5000.
I dont understand this part. If I booked a $5000 trip what would my rebate be?
It’s what happens when you yourself don’t offer any products and services other than affiliate membership.
Maybe I am mistaken, but isn’t Dubli paying a PERCENTAGE of whatever their PERCENTAGE from the merchant is?
1) Dubli affiliate makes a purchase thru Dubli portal for $100
2) Retailer pays Dubli a set percentage of the purchase price (for this example, let’s say 10%) which equals $10 for Dubli
3) Dubli pays their affiliate a set percentage of the Dubli percentage funds (let’s say 6%) for a cashback to the affiliate of 60 cents.
If this is how they have it structured, Dubli has $9.40 remaining that they can use for other means, or as profit.
If that’s the case then the shopping portal becomes even less attractive.
Cashback percentages are already low, a percentage of a <5% percentage is hardly worth it (nobody is paying Dubli 10% unless the merchant is pushing something shonky).
And it would only serve to increase the disparity between recruitment commissions and the cashback network.
Oz, then maybe Dubli is acting in a go-between capacity, the consumer is a pseudo-affiliate of the retailer, thus getting the full amount of the affiliate agreement with the retailer is.
It is all very confusing to me (obviously).
You have to take the free account as the baseline. That’s what Dubli receive from merchants.
That amount as a percentage of what is actually paid Dubli makes no sense, as it would put the network at a massive disadvantage (4% of typically 1-5% is nothing, even when hundreds of dollars are spent to purchase something).
The answer as to where the extra cashback comes from lies in Dubli bundling sample memberships (which cost them nothing to produce), with affiliate membership options that cost thousands of dollars.
That money doesn’t just disappear. Some of it is used to pay recruitment commissions and inevitably some of it is going to be recycled into cashback.
Dubli is a big convoluted mess, in part because they don’t explain dollar for dollar the mechanics behind the cashback. Writing the review was headache enough for me.
I obviously need to dig into it all further. I was considering joining, but I’ve had some doubts from the beginning.
As nothing is truly free, the income to pay the “Free” accounts is a total wash for Dubli to lead people to the paying customer side of the business.
They dress it up to make it attractive to buy in.
Not enough. Typical Amazon affiliateship pays a few percent. Even those “Cashback with every purchase” credit/debit cards pays like 1% or more, and you don’t have to pay a penny. Dubli talks a lot but in the end, it’s “pay us, and we promise to pay you back, really”
So the question is: do you understand the scheme well enough to trust their promise to hand over your money?
After reading this whole thread. I still dont know it wont work on the customer side not the recruiting side.
If Dubli is making a spread on all the sales no matter what the rebate is they are making money. Right?
From my understanding, Dubli becomes an affiliate with X company which agrees to pay Dubli 5% (or whatever %). Dubli tells it’s free customers that it will pay them 3%. Mr.Customer buys $100 from X company. X company pays Dubli $5 and Dubli pays Mr. Customer $3 out of that. Dubli makes $2.
Enough free customers and/or purchases made by free customers and Dubli could make some money before expenses (web site, any staff, etc.) but they’re not going to rich off of it.
My example doesn’t include travel as somebody stated that travel items are done differently.
When you start adding in the different levels and payouts for bringing people in (as customers only), etc. that the numbers don’t start adding up.
The mlm/business side is just 100% ponzi.
I dont know whats so complicated. They “pre-purchase” 20 years worth of “autoships” then assign them to their moms, dads, aunts, uncles, Dogs, cats, and goldfish etc.
They pay the comissions on the “vouchers” before they are sold. Its a paid for recruiting game PERIOD! Nothing else matters beyond that.
I have been in a networking based e-commerce business for 6+ years. I know EXACTLY how this works. The way Dubli has their commissions structured they will need 10,000 reps in their pay line’s to make $5000 a month residual off of consumer “shopping”.
There is respectively NO residual income here. Its not freakin rocket science. Its really simple math. If anyone cant see that, they do NOT belong starting ANY type of business.
Thank you so much for writing this! My husband’s friends are losing their minds over anything and everything Dubli.
It’s like his facebook newsfeed has been taken over by Dubli, they don’t even post about their real lives anymore it’s all Dubli and Wukar and “we’re going to be millionaires drinking cocktails in Grand Cayman in 2 months.”
Oh and by the way DUBL is a pink sheets (Over The Counter) stock. To quote ehow…
Read more: ehow.com/info_8148945_pink-sheet-stocks.html
One of the Terms and conditions of Dubli !!!
It seems to be about “testimonials” and other types of marketing efforts. It means you won’t be compensated or asked for permission for that type of use. They won’t need to remove that type of material.
People can still complain about misleading information.
Which makes it worthless as a service (not obviously useful) and dangerously risky as an income opportunity, doesn’t it?
I am both a customer and a BA(buisness associate) with Dubli and i just read this whole tread. I have been with Dubli over a year now,and i will just give some of my inputs on all of this.
As a customer, me and my wife have received over 1200.00 dollars from cashback purchases. We are VIP members so, our $99.00 fee was recovered. It does take sometime useally over 60 days for the cashback to be available for transfer to your bank account or dubli mastercard.
I have had 6 transactions not process due to various reasons, but it was do to not following the correct way to activate the cashback.
As a premium or VIP you can get your cashback out at anytime after the 60 or so day for the processing. As free member you can only take it out once a year on your anniversary day.
So as a customer i am very satisfied so far. VIP’s can only be used as a personal account and can’t be used by a buisness. There is a buisness or corporate account that basically is the same as the free account.
Now on the buisness associate side, i still am working on this. I never joined Dubli to recruit people, i just never done this before and have no experience in mlm, but what got my attentions is the non-profit program that no one has mentioned so far.
So for any non-profit organization Dubli offer a free branded website that the non-profit can use to promote to their members and they will receive a 30% commission on all of their members annual cashback amounts.
So my idea was just to build a large customer side and if they do use it like we did i will get a % of that as a buisness associate.
Now as far as all the other comments i did not analyze that deep, and will probably pay for that lol.
(Ozedit: recruitment spam removed)
Unfortunately the customer cashback side of Dubli, at least as far as the bonus percentage goes, can’t exist without the recruitment side of the business (MLM).
Well it’s all there for you in the review. Additional cashback doesn’t just materialize out of thin air, it’s subsidized out of the ridiculous affiliate package fees charged.
Out of curiosity, which package did you come in at?
I came in at the TLC level. That included 10 VIP vouchers that i sold. It also allowed me to sign up Non-Profits.
Just one other note, it looks like some of the major retails like WalMart are naming Dubli as the number one affiliate producer. Not sure if this is important or not.
Team Leader Accelerator?
Why would someone who “never joined Dubli to recruit people” drop $2475 on affiliate membership?
What, for a replicated branded website for your non-profit? Cmon son.
Did any of the people you sold the VIP vouchers to sign on as affiliates?
None of my VIP have signed Business Associates if thats what you are asking and thats because i did not tell them anything about that side of Dubli.
They have renewed their VIP’s and i am getting commission on their cashback.
Also out of that 2475, i made back 1000 just by selling the 10 VIP’s that i got as part of the package and i also received 20 for every VIP for referring them as a customer and 25 for the annual commission that i get as a Business Associate so thats another 450.
So i paid 1000 to be able to sell to the non-profits. If you take the 1200 that i made as a customer using the VIP plus the 1000 for my VIP vouchers plus the 450.00 for the referral and commission i have made back my money and i am not counting my other commissions for cashback from my customers.
I am certainly not making any significant money this way but if the company sticks around i may be in a few years. Bottom line is i don’t feel like i am selling something to anyone. i am just showing them how to save money on something most people do, which is shop online.
Check out my website if you want to really find out how Dubli works. Let me be clear, i am not recruiting new buisness associates i am trying to build a customer side. This is what i was told i can do and make money and that why i did it.
Well if that’s the case then more power to you.
Like I said previously though, know that the additional VIP cashback is unsustainable without the supply of fees charged. If enough VIP members receive over $99 in annual cashback the system runs red.
At that point they can dip into affiliate package funds or continue to accumulate debt.
Oz you may be right and i will bring this up and check into it more in depth. The way it was explained to me was that Dubli negotiates with all of the merchants on the cashback it receives, then it pays its members a certain portion, then it keeps the rest.
Because of the volume that dubli is sending these merchants the merchants may increase the amount of cashback. So the idea is that even the extra VIP 6% is still being covered by the merchant cashback. Hope this helps.
6% flatrate across all merchants? Cashback is typically set by the merchants, not a third-party company.
And the volume argument is bust, as you can’t measure volume without signing up a merchant, which would require agreeing to a 6% uniform cashback.
Retail doesn’t work like that, the margins are already typically stretched thin per sale.
The fact that Dubli themselves don’t clarify this publicly indicates it’s the weak point of their cashback model.
I mean if they were able to keep 2% of cashback for non-VIP members, why bother having the MLM side of the business at all?
As per Tony Rush’s reveal video, there’s evidence of a disconnect with Dubli’s top MLM commission earning affiliates and cashback commissions. In that, those who are earning significant money in Dubli are certainly not earning it as a result of referring non-affiliate cashback customers.
Rush himself earnt some $150,000 or so in two months from memory, all from affiliate recruitment. Cashback was so negligible he didn’t even bother to show it.
Tony Rush did a wonderful job in showing how much of a pyramid scheme DubLi is with his reveal video. Well done Tony!
Seasoned MLM pros like Tony Rush see the opportunity to use Dubli to recruit and make quick money. He also already has team base that will do or follow his lead.
There’s another guy that made over 500k in 29 days, the fastest VP in Dubli history.
After doing my research in the MLM buisness the common elements i saw, was a bunch of guru’s promoting deceiving techniques like (open end questions, close end questions) an other sales type techniques to lure young or unsuspecting people to join their MLM.
Then they want you to build a team to do the same. This just did not sit right with me, so i dont really pay any attention to that side of the buisness.
Dubli did offer the other side the i mentioned before and i have not seen any other MLM out there that gave this option. I may be wrong but most MLM are product driven.
You should. Regulators will go after the company first, and only then might go after individual affiliates.
Good point OZ i will certainly keep that and all the info in this blog in mind. Thanks for all your good info. I guess if i dont recruit anyone i should be safe. Lol.
Firstly, apologies I haven’t included a photo as I could not work out how to do this. Secondly, I really just want to ask for clarification on DubLi being a ponzi scheme.
So I get the whole recruiting people and if your income is predominately from recruitment – then alarm bells. But how about doing tasks, earning credits and exchanging those credits for customers or business associates. You essentially have done work / provided a service and are paid for that work through customers and business associates. Still a ponzi?
Another question I have is – if it was a ponzi scheme, your posts date back to 2010, why has the authorities not done anything, surely they would have done something by now, its been 4 years +?
Really just looking for clarification as I consider all this.
Thanks in advance.
You’re using the term Ponzi instead of pyramid, those two terms are not interchangeable and refer to different business models.
That doesn’t negate the recruitment side of the business.
You’d have to ask the authorities.
If I had to guess it’s because Dubli never went anywhere until they relaunched with recruitment-focused commissions. They were not even a blip on the radar until recently.
Now you’ve got affiliates posting $100,000+ in recruitment commission videos. How long do you think that’s going to go unnoticed?
What is the difference between ponzi and pyramid then please?
I can definitely see that these video’s that Tony Rush, Kristian Hoenicke, Tar’Lese Rideaux and the like are putting out there with all the money they are making just from recruiting is going to cause issues.
Are all countries subject to the same legalities regarding ponzi schemes?
Another way of describing a pyramid scheme is as an “endless chain recruiting scheme”
Once recruiting stops, as in, new recruits can’t be found, the scheme collapses.
Many modern ‘net based schemes are combinations of both ponzi and pyramid
@ jill somers
the difference is that ponzi schemes are not recruitment based , but are direct investments ; and pyramid schemes are recruitment driven with commissions for recruitment .
the similarity is that both are money transfer systems without any real ‘economic activity’ underlying them.
when they crash , most participants lose money .
and yes , they are illegal everywhere.
I have a relatively long blogpost where I deal with the differences and how each type can be disguised so the sheeple can’t tell them from real businesses.
Thanks guys – so all in all – your view is that DubLi is a pyramid scheme? And one should stay away from it as eventually the authorities will catch up with them?
It’s very likely a hybrid MLM / Ponzi / Pyramid scheme where you can BUY your way to higher ranks instead of via sales alone for greater rewards.
That in itself, is very reminiscent of Lyoness and why Lyoness is under investigation in Australia where ACCC (their FTC) already charged Lyoness with operating illegal money scheme.
By doing it half and half, they’ll confuse the sheeple who who keep looking at the legal half and put in money, while the “leaders” who paid in early for the top positions are reaping the rewards and encourage followers to go all in (i.e. join at the middle under them so they can benefit).
Either that or it will organically collapse (stall).
There’s no sustainable retail activity taking place within the business.
So today I found out that DubLi have direct relationships with the retailers. I am told that they do not offer cashback via third parties or other affiliate programs. Do you think this is BS?
I know that they definitely have a direct relationship with Apple, because as you know Apple don’t normally offer discounts.
Keen to hear everyone’s thoughts on this. Apologies for all the questions – but I am exploring the customer side not the recruitment of associates side. So want to know absolutely everything and anything.
Told by who? Did you see any proof?
Does it make any difference? The primary part of the business will still be the recruitment of new participants.
If you’re looking at DubLi as an income opportunity, it will be that part of the business you will be joining. The only realistic way to make any income is to recruit minimum 3 additional participants, and to help them recruit minimum 3 additional participants, and so on and so forth in an endless chain of recruitment of new investors.
If you google “Dubli compensation plan”, you will find that the compensation plan has been relatively unchanged in the last 5 years or more. Only the front side of the business has changed = it has introduced new “next big thing on the internet” components one or two times per year.
The main part of the business has always been about the recruitment of new investors = people paying for “positions” disguised in different ways.
——– Pay directly for a position ——–
•Team Member – starting affiliate rank
•Team Leader – recruit and maintain at least three affiliates (or pay $2475)
•Team Coordinator – recruit and maintain at least three Team Leader ranked affiliates (or pay xxxx, I don’t remember the amount)
•Sales Director – recruit and maintain at least three Team Coordinator ranked affiliates (or pay $12,000)
———– Recruitment required ———
•Vice President – recruit and maintain at least five Sales Director ranked affiliate legs
•Senior Vice President – recruit and maintain at least five Vice President ranked affiliate legs.
please go through the official apple internet reseller list . neither is dubli inc and neither is medianetgroup [parent company of dubli] , on this list .
If you’re primarily looking at the customer side of the business, I don’t really see any problems. I haven’t analysed that part of the business either.
It’s relatively common to use a “customer side” of a business as a feeder program for the “opportunity side” of the business.
A feeder program will feed the main program with a stream of “prospective new participants” = people they actively can try to recruit into the main opportunity.
dubli inc seems very ‘gentleman corporate’ if you look at their board of directors .these are stalwart corporate folks with backgrounds ranging from microsoft to senior positions in publicly traded companies :
1] blas moros comes from microsoft
2] Lester Rosenkrantzis is a wall street veteran , including a 17 year tenure as CEO of Rosenkrantz, Lyon & Ross, Incorporated, a NYSE-member firm.
3] david sassnet’s experience encompasses more than 12 years with the auditing and consulting firm of Deloitte & Touché, LLP.
michael hansen the CEO is the founder of dubli inc , and his CV is not that strong .
what are the top three guys doing with dubli ?
Is the board actually doing anything? Or is Hansen just paying them to use their names (along with Dubli affiliates)?
@ jill somers
dubli is lying about ‘apple’ and its lying about ‘walmart’ too . in india they are lying about tie ups with retailers like myntra and flipcart . i called the companies and checked that no such tie ups are there.
if dubli has direct tie ups with apple and walmart and what not, there will be some proof , because these are things a company would celebrate , instead of hide.
Read more : ehow.com/how_5966899_become-online-retailer-walmart.html
They DO NOT have direct relationships. They DO NOT have the buying power or track record to negotiate with retailers. They dont even know what it takes to make that happen, let alone, do it.
It takes loads of clout, years of results, years of negotiations and a HEAVY corporate infrastrucre to make that happen. TRUST me, the retails have no clue who Dubli is. If they even attempted to make the approach to retailers, they would be laughed out of the building. Not that it even matters, because its just a paid for recruiting pyramid scheme, but, Whoever is saying “they have direct relationships” is flat out LYING to you. It is COMPLETE BS!
Why would you even CONSIDER working with some cheap, BS knockoff off recruiting deal? Dubli (and the rest of these dime a dozen “cashback” deals) are not doing anything but trying to copy a successful e-commerce and product brokerage company and they are doing a very, VERY poor job of it.
Innovation wins the race, NOT imitation. Dubli is pathetic at best.
For a supposedly “direct” relationship with Apple, they got a pretty shitty deal. Here are restrictions if you shop through a Dubli link:
“The iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus are not eligible for Cashback. There will be no Cashback paid for purchasing the new iPad Air 2 and iPad mini 3. Cashback is not available on MacPro, Bose Products, Gift Cards, Shipping, iTunes, Gift Wrap and Apple One to One Membership.”
Like others have said – they have no direct relationship. They simply signed up for a bunch of affiliate programs and slapped them all on one website.
Let me shed some light on not just the “customer” or “retail” side, as I think a lot of good affiliate marketers have kind of exposed Dubli so far, ( how they can pay MORE cashback $$ to customers who pay DUBLI $99 etc etc), let me tell you whats going on the MLM side.
I am a member of Dubli/WUKAR who stopped promoting this immediately I begin seeing whats going on.
Matt Trainer who is “WUKAR” joined this directly under Dubli (some say that DUBLI even paid him big $$ to get this kickstarted in the US) and with the help of some big names in MLM begin promoting Dubli.
Trainer claims he can drive so much traffic to both customer and the biz side (TM`s) that he literally would have to hire 1000’s of people (and thats where YOU come in), join his team at the $2475 TLA level and you will have access to his massive traffic rotator, however you will be required to simply “copy/paste work….but hurry, b/c on Oct 1st the offer will end.
I joined in early Sept, sent all of the google hangout/webinars around to anyone interested in joining until our new marketing system was ready. There was a big meeting in Dubai in early Oct. and supposedly after that the marketing/funnel system would be ready.
Long story short, it is now mid Nov and the marketing system/funnel/rotators still havent launched, people are still passing around the same google hangout videos from Aug.
Now, however, instead of generating traffic/signups for say 2K WUKAR members, he is going to have to provide signups for over 6K members????? The rotators have not been cut off yet, nor has his massive funnel system been launched yet? It is supposed to launch THIS week though???
Members have been making videos for the traffic rotators for over a month now! Notice I said making videos and not copy/paste work.
Traffic rotator participants are required to buy VideoMaker FX and create videos and insert long tailed keywords. The Video FX link in the back office is an affiliate link for, you guessed it, Matt Trainer.
You make a video and submit it to Trainers team to be approved/disapproved and if approved it earns you credits for the rotator, when it launches.
I think you get my drift here as basically, Trainer and his buds (the guys directly below him) are tearing it up in commissions on recruits!
Promises of lots/houses in the Caymen Islands, a “millionaires club”… which is Trainers promise of anyone who hit SD rank by Oct.31 would be inducted into a special club where Trainer would not personally take a dime from Dubli until EVERY SD (from that Oct 31 date) each made $1 million.
Talk about smoke, hype and mirrors!!
Also it was just realeased where the comp plan for MLM side is no longer a direct pay commission structure, but is now a 2×2 binary. Anyone who knows how that works knows that the guys on top earn most of the $$.
Finally, they calim there are 11 million customers in Dubli? I could not find ONE person who has claimed or proved they have been paid by Dubli as a customer. I am not saying that no one has been paid cashback $$, I am saying I have not seen where anyone has.
There are a lot of WUKAR members who have PENDING cashback payments, but I have yet to see anyone paid.
This is whats going on in the BUSINESS side of WUKAR.
So Tony Rush and friends make hundreds of thousands of dollars recruiting people and then they pull the ladder up after them.
…after using “you can earn just like us!” as the marketing spiel no doubt. Which of course is now impossible because they’ve pulled a bait and switch.
2×2 binary or matrix?
Its a binary, you can search youtube for several videos for D2G2 Dubli comp plan.
Team WUKAR has a Google + group with over 5K people. The only things posted are all of the new TLA members joining and people who got cash back on something they have bought (no reports of anyone ACTUALLY paid, just pending as noted in my previous post.
I have yet to see anyone earning any kind of real $$ except by recruiting other TM, TLA`s.
And yep Oz, Trainer, Rush etc are earning a LOT of money and will earn far more with a 2×2.
No official docs?
I was under Tony Rush in Empower Network. He will stop at nothing to get dollars in his pocket.
Run from him if he asks you to do business with him. And chances are, you can out run him because hes a bit on the husky size.
I hear that Tony Rush has ‘resigned’ from Empower Network?
Could someone explain why a 2×2 binary is disadvantageous to someone new or ‘average’ Joe?
Apparently the new Dubli levels now included a low $99 option to get started on the ‘business’ side…then I guess ‘work you way up’
See here: https://behindmlm.com/companies/empower-network/empower-network-decline-taking-its-toll/#comment-324113
A 2×2 matrix is disadvantageous because those who join later are encouraged to recycle their commissions to purchase new matrix positions.
While they do this those who got in early also repurchase but they have enough positions to make withdrawals too. So this goes on and when recruitment slows down those at the bottom, once they have enough positions to start withdrawing, realize there’s no money left.
Dunno what a 2×2 binary is.
@synergy As a new Business Associate in slightly over two weeks, count me as one of those people who had a pending and now has money in the bank.
DubLi had $370 showing as pending in my account. They pay on the 15th of the month on the old plan. (Weekly now) So, they notified me three days ago that they transferred my “pending” to Payloution.
Yesterday, Payloution notified me that they had transferred my money ( I had requested that they transfer it automatically) to my bank. Today, the money was in my account.
My pending turned into real dollars.. You have to tell DubLi by the 9th how much of your pending you want transferred and you have to tell Payloution to transfer or have it done automatically, like me.. And it wasn’t even the 15th yet.
You implied that DubLi might not really pay and I wanted to correct the implied dishonesty.
Oz, evidently this is not what you are refering to as a 2X2. No one is encouraging any one to purchase more “positions. In fact that would be against the rules and be of no advantage. You get paid your money.
I know the kind of matrix you are talking about, but this is not that kind. It’s not a 2X2 matrix that you are referring to.
So what is a 2×2 binary then? Makes little sense.
Something Dublu has that I haven’t seen elsewhere is their toolbar. When you turn it on, it reminds you when you go to a website that Dubli pays cash back with how much you get.
Even shopping for shoes last week, I googled them and every retailer that pays cash back, pops up a little DubLi box in the Google listing. I selected the stores that paid cash back to shop at.
I think with that kind of convenience, people will use DubLi simply because of the convenience and because they are constantly reminded they can get cash back. The little box shows how much back on each level. If you constantly notice you could get more cash back, that will be an incentive to upgrade.
Just a thought. And everyone I’ve talked to agrees that the long term income is by having customers, not for downline. Short term, yes, but long term, no.
And therein lies the problem for late joiners.
Early joiners are not interested in the “long term”
As Oz points out in post #109 above, the “Tony Rush” type early joiners are invited in early so they can bring their mailing lists with them.
They recruit like crazy, then, as soon as the number of incoming new members slows, take their recruitment commission and disappear, exactly as Rush has done with Empower and all his previous “opportunities”
This leaves late joiners holding the bag and desperately trying to eke out a few bucks enough to cover their costs with usually overpriced and non competitive or unmarketable “product”
Shopping Genie, Shopping Sherlock and a few others. The toolbar is likely licensed/third-party.
Yeah but they’re not. Let’s not pretend Dubli is new and shiny. The only thing shiny about it is the recruitment commissions.
Yeah, that’s the pseudo-compliance talking. Meanwhile *wink wink nudge nudge* everyone earns commissions on affiliate recruitment.
Is the $370 from cash back on purchases or is it from recruitment commissions?
this is the current state of the Dubli property In the Caymans, which they don’t own, its a planed development with a partner called crown acquisitions:
I have a number of acquaintances pumping this all over social media, all claiming there one level away from receiving a Cayman property, of which aren’t even close to being built, and from my investigations have not been approved by the Cayman government.
The developer partnered with Dubli, Jason Pickthall is a convicted felon, and recently bankrupt:
Both Dubli and Crown Acquisitions don’t have the hundred million it would take to develop the resort they are advertising, The operating cost of just a resort is huge, and anyone that thinks Dubli is any position to fund and cover such and operation is seriously lacking in reason, and those that are behind this team Wakur are of the most predatory of individuals.
Here are the minutes from the British environmental committee questioning Pickthall on his business, and you will see it raises more questions than it answers.
If you scroll down three quarters, you will see that the Cayman government has not granted them permission to develop the rum point property, Dublis supposed future 175 unit, artificial lagoon and golf course.
@ Skeptic….You obviously did not read my post. I did not say that Dubli does not pay, I said that I do not know anyone who has been paid any CASH BACK money.
You were paid on comissions, big difference.
Has anyone else heard that all Dubli merchants have to pay $6,999 to get started with Dubli then $499/month going forward as a monthly msintenence allowence?
I haven’t heard that much.
They recently modified their comp plan though (recruiters pulled the ladder up after them), but I have yet to see a copy of it.
Tony Rush pulling the ladder up after he’s made money?
And John Lavenia? The Zeek-master himself?
Say it isn’t so?
@ Oz….. No official docs?
Like you said previously….
“Dubli compensation plan (which co-incidentally is not provided openly anywhere on the company’s website).”
Most if not ALL of Dubli`s T&C are coming fom Team WUKAR now??
The company Dubli is trying to emulate had the toolbar going back almost 10 years ago. MANY companies had a toolbar. Years of experience as leaders in networking/e-commerce says tool bars dont meet their potential.
You are bragging about antiquated technology. There is NEW technology that does everything the toolbar does and then some.
Yes, I am sure you HAVE NOT seen anyone else that has it. ONE there is a good reason for that because its like 2005 technology and TWO because you obviously do not know enough about where your company is even getting its ideas.
Seriously, you have not even looked at the space you are existing in and who made it possible.
Why the hell would you pay $2000+ dollars to get 1/10 of what the company you are trying to copy has for $400. Why would you want to build a team of 10,000 reps over and over to make $50K per year in residuals when you can do it ONCE with only 100 reps?
I cant fault anyone for not knowing what they dont know but seriously, even SLIGHT market research will show what a joke this DUBLI thing is compared to the originator.
Which leads me to this. You guys need to stop throwing the term “binary” around so freely without knowing what it is.
The ONLY company that has a BINARY comp plan is the one who invented it 23 years ago. Its actually called Binomial marketing and has a success rate 40 to 400 times greater than MLM or anything Calling themselves a binary.
AGAIN, people try to copy that too. The way all these 300+ companies have bastardized it is beyond pathetic. They simply use the term as a gimmick yet turn it upside down to funnel all the money to the top anyway.
Its just funny how people’s “experience” shows the complete lack OF.
I’m a bit reluctant to source compensation plan updates from affiliates as they’re subject to change.
Dubli have a responsibility to provide the general public with their compensation plan. Their continued failure to do so speaks volumes about their attitude to compliance and transparency.
95% of their affiliate’s do not even know what they are in as a result.
I have yet to meet even ONE that has an offocial copy of the business plan, let alone be able to properly explain it. And yes, I have asked ALLOT of them, including the “experienced” “celebrities”.
Oh and Yes Oz. There are TONS of cashback tool bars and app’s. A simple Google search for “cashback toolbars” will reveal endless results with dozens upon dozens of them.
For anyone to say they dont know of any other company that does that means they simply did not look, dont know how to look, or were afraid to look.
Absolutely NOTHING Dubli has done or IS doing is unique. They own NO technology, ideas, or products of their own and have nothing proprietary and they have ZERO market share.
Therefore it is NOT a company or business at all, by any means. Its just another couple of online douschebags trying to create a facade at best.
On a side note: They are 1000% ABSOLUTELY lying about the number of customers they have. They are counting the number of vouchers sold with the startup packages as customers.
Just because they bundle 200 vouchers with the startup does NOT mean they have 200 customers. This is Crooked in every respect.
I sure hope they are not using those numbers to gain favor from investors. THAT would DEFINITELY be fraud.
They’ve timed bringing in the “big hitters” perfectly. We’re in the biggest shopping period of the year which will bring in people just for the cash back alone. Those numbers will entice others to join on the business side. Add in the ones who will have a New Year goal of starting their own business.
Everything will be rolling fairly strong until the holidays are over which means shopping goes back down and then the credit card bills from the holidays come rolling in.
Unlikely, esp. if the information is sourced from Dubli, not from the “retailers” you claimed.
TVI Express, the pyramid scheme that was hot about 4 years ago, claimed “direct tie-up” with every hotel chain, cruise line, airline, and travel related companies in the world. They actually don’t have ANY such. They are simply an affiliate to Travelocity, which is very easy to qualify.
They were so blatant, they got sued by Lufthansa… and the lawsuit came back as “unable to deliver”… their address ain’t even real.
One must also recall all the logos plastered by Phil Ming Xu’s “WCM777”, everybody from Wendy’s and Holiday Inn was mentioned and implied that PMX helped them with financing in China. All that went KAPUT when PMX and WCM777 was shut down by SEC and State of California.
What PMX really did was gave two million to his sister who then opened up a boutique shop… and lost a ton of money. When the receiver tried to track down the money, she played turtle, then basically gave the receiver two containers full of uncataloged cloths that’s worth at best tens of thousands of dollars.
Don’t believe company’s own advertising. It’s subject to embellishment, “telephone effect”, rumor mongering, and basically, “crap info”.
Oz, just got an email over the weekend about the “new comp plan.”
This is from Dubli, not WUKAR:
Sounds like backoffice report changes rather than an actual change in the plan itself.
Dubli continue to be coy in putting anything in writing regarding updates to their compensation plan.
It also sounds like an opportunity for the “big” guys to siphon money from the “little” guys who are unaware of how the comp plan works.
There seems to be a sense of entitlement around some of those guys.
Either way, its not a good opportunity when there are different rules for different people.
Well Buck Reed explains it all to us here.
Buck explaining it:
Buck and Micheal telling us how amazing it is:
of course hes now serving 7 years for another fraud:
DubLi has filed a $15 million lawsuit against Dustin Mitchell. Since Michael Hansen claims he was never affiliated with DubLi I am not sure exactly what damages the company has incurred. Nevertheless, Mitchell is counter suing DubLi, Inc. for $50 million, and filing three separate suits against DubLi executives.
Each for suit seeks a judgement against the executive for $10 million for defamation, slander and deceptive business practices.
Meanwhile, Mitchell seems unphased and had decided to run for United States Congress.
The litigation website has been updated though.
Have you heard this, Oz? Dubli was so desparate to make a splash in the United States market they apparently paid the airfare for some of the leaders to fly last-minute to their event in Dubai.
They have a lot of selling to do. No one seems to like the new binary plan which is very advantageous for the leaders at the top, but not so much for the others.
I was aware they flew some people out to the Dubai bash.
Not sure what the status of the company is… last I heard they paid out hundreds of thousands in recruitment commissions and then pulled a bait and switch by changing the comp plan.
What are you REALLY afraid of?
I’ll admit I don’t have “leader” knowledge about dissecting comp plans and such. And I am relatively “new” to this Industry. I have had failures in other companies on-line with companies virtually guaranteed to succeed. I also don’t have any sort of huge list of followers…just a “warm market”.
Here’s what I DO know: (and yes I am an associate with DubLi)
1) I joined at the $495. level, and used 1 of my vouchers to become my own VIP customer. I then “sold”, cash-in-hand, my other 4 vouchers to friends/family. Boom…I’ve made back my investment.
2) I’ve recruited a team of 8, also very new to the industry and I’ve earned and been PAID 10% commission on whatever level they came in at.
3) I have 40 personal customers so far (in 2 months). Some are Paid and I earned commission on their membership, and some are FREE which I think is awesome for those really needing to save money.
4) My “newbie” recruits…have also been able to recruit and build customer lists…all this WITHOUT any advertising or SEO rotator yet.
5) I have ZERO autoship or products I HAVE to buy each month. I do have to sell 1 VIP membership/monthly…which if you can’t find 1 new customer each month—look inward at your skills
6) I am shopping (not alot as i’m single mom of 1) but I’m discovering more merchants/services being added all the time. I even saved on a hotel booking I needed. I now order ALL my boxed groceries on-line–why wouldn’t I want CASH BACK?!
7) my customers are SHOPPING…just changed HOW they shop. and I earn commission on ALL that shopping. Do you think they will quit shopping on-line in a year or two if they’re saving money?
8) No, it’s not a new concept. Neither was the newest cell phone company, or Dodge coming after Ford. The lion share will go to where offers the MOST benefits and EASIEST way to the customer.
9) the money flow makes sense. the Stores are happy, customers are happy, DubLi is happy = Associates are happy. Maybe the concept is TOO simple so people need to find fault/flaws/discrepancies.
I could care less what the Leader’s plans are…I’m finally succeeding at a home business and my customers are happy (which i might add, yes finally something my family/friends support)
So I may be a small “fish” but all I know is I’m getting paid, I’m not playing “my lotions betta than yours” and I’m saving myself and customers money….What’s wrong with the Customer finally getting something back on the money they’re already spending?
Oh I don’t know, cliched jargon from newbie MLM marketers?
Yes and no product or service has been sold to retail customers. You bought in and resold your own affiliate purchase.
Between your customers and affiliates, which has generated higher commission revenue thus far (excluding your giving away of vouchers you yourself purchased)? Be honest.
Signing up free customers is easy. The real money in Dubli is affiliate recruitment, just ask Tony Rush and other high-earning affiliates.
Yeah that’s the marketing line. Yet the numbers don’t back it up. It’s far more lucrative to just focus on affiliate recruitment in Dubli (which is what “the leaders” all do).
That’s only a trickle of the money flow. The river of money flow is affiliates signing up and generating commissions for those that recruited them.
More power to you. It’s easy to see why they’d support you if all they had to do was accept a free voucher you threw their way.
Meanwhile the lack of retail activity within Dubli continues…
Have you and your customers actually received the cash back money from the shopping part only?
I’m not talking about it showing up on a screen in your back office stating that you are going to get X amount back. I’m asking if it has actually been paid out – put into your personal bank account or on your credit card or however is is to be paid out?
I have seen numerous people saying they have been paid but all of it has been coming from the business (recruiting) side.
When it comes actually getting their hands on the money they supposedly got through cash back, I have yet to see one person state that it has been paid out to them.
That is NOT binary. The ONLY company that has a true binary plan is the one who created it 24 years ago. Anything else is just some shitty, novelty, derivative of it that has been cannibalized to funnel all the money to the top.
The end result is ZERO difference between that, and typical MLM pay structure outcomes.
It’s hilarious watching this scam scramble now that zeek exposed what a fraud reverse and penny auctions are.
Though, one would think that the same person allegedly winning ALL the auctions would have been the first clue. lmao
When did you regress to kindergarten “dares”? Very immature attitude of yours there… Very much so.
Some of which, you’ve merely been told. Let’s see which is which.
You bought 5 vouchers for $495, then sold 4 vouchers to others to join.
Are you aware you have engaged in ‘referral selling’, i.e. pay into the system, then get discounted/refunded contingent on introducing OTHERS into paying the $495 as well, which is ILLEGAL in all 50 states AND Canada?
Ditto. You’re paid for RECRUITING, not selling.
Ditto first comment.
By telling their family and friends, same as you did. What exactly does that prove? Nothing.
Ditto first comment, again.
And how much are you really getting, since every debit and credit card nowadays offer anywhere from 1% to 5% cashback?
That’s what Quixtar (Amway) said a decade ago. Hahaha.
And it’s not Dubli… Because it COSTS $495 to get in, AND you have to keep finding more people. How much shopping / recruiting do you need to make back that $495? Wait, you already answered it… and it’s potentially illegal already. (Ditto #1)
Maybe the concept is you forgot you paid $495 and have to find 4 other suckers to make back your money, so each of THEM are out $495. Easy to do, yes.
Referral selling is illegal, dear. You’re a noob so you are excused, but go research it yourself, don’t take my word for it. Don’t ask your “leader” either, because s/he doesn’t know jack about this.
Money trumps morality, bravo. or is that money begets ignorance?
If you paid $495, you’re not just a customer. You’re a Ponzi participant and potentially engaged in illegal referral selling.
Here’s to hope that you’ll actually make sense of your actions rather than trying to “rationalize” it away by blaming “sour grapes” on everybody who’s trying to explain to you that you’re both wrong and naive.
oz what are the chances there will be a claw back similar to what’s happened with Zeek’s rewards.
Currently there are Several to a dozen Team Wukar members who have been particularly predatorily on social media web sites, I’ve seen many of them brag on their posting about the money they’ve made recruiting, even claiming to have Cayman plot, which is hard to believe since the land Dubli is supposedly partnered with isn’t divided into lots or even cleared government permission to develop.
This is all good because there’s a huge digital foot print now, that clearly reveals the fraud. Dubli hasn’t filed an SEC form in 2 years, they just keep putting up the same two year old report every quarter.
I can’t answer that, it’s up to US regulators.
They don’t comment on open investigations so I know just as much as you do.
is there’s an ongoing investigation?
Regulators in the US don’t typically confirm/deny investigations unless the party being investigated discloses knowledge of an investigation first, or legal action is taken.
Neither has happened in the case (no pun intended) of Dubli yet.
I live in the Cayman Islands. Dubli does not own a resort here.
See my earlier posts, they don’t own land, they’ve merely placed a deposit on 15 potential lots on the crown acquisitions rum point property, that as of march of 2014 was still being denied permission to develop.
They’re promoting the Cayman property in a way that makes it seem as if it already is built.
they could have gotten one a lot cheaper from that scammer who had some on Ca.
If your referring to Jason Pickthall, that is the scammer dubli is partnered with, and no, they are not even close to being developed. Neither dubli or crown acquisitions have the tens of millions it would take to develop and then run this.
If you look at Google satellite, you can see a partially cleared land to the left of Maliportas pond, its mixed in some swamp area, that would require a lot of work to even begin to make usable.
The whole company is predatory, and the team Wukar people plugging this to the unsuspecting are of the lowest of types, since they are bragging about the ten million they have raised for dubli and certainly the leaders know the property is a lie.
I’ve confronted one already and he shrugged it off, hope the SEC claws them back and they are forced to return the cash they stole from others. here’s the Google address
Delays delays and more delays…
Anyone else hear Wukar have just ‘realised’ that to track all the rotator keywords and videos will cost $1,000,000/month+
…but they’re ‘working on it’…so hang in folks, it might take a year, but keep knocking those videos out!
People on the ‘ground’ will be feeling frustrated for sure…those who signed up to work just the rotators only.
Anyone hear anything else?
I vaguely remember WUKAR spruiking some SEO guy they had who “gave up millions of dollars” worth of SEO contracts to pimp Dubli?
Sounds like a pretty colossal stuffup for someone attributed the guru status other WUKAR leaders were bestowing on him.
From someone on FB ABout Dubli:
No….I’m talking about the guy that ran the WCM777 scam. He invested in golf courses in California. When he got jammed up, they have to be liquidated.
Dubli could have easily bought one of those for a song. But, I don’t believe they have any.
IOW – There is no significant amount of money to be made from customers on the cash back side.
To make any more than a few bucks, you have to get it through recruiting people into the business side.
I haven’t analysed the details for that part, but Dubli has never been about the “front part” of the business, it has always been about recruiting new affiliates into various “positions” (BA, TL, etc.).
The “front side” of the business is needed to make the business look legitimate. It may also act as a “feeder program” for the other side of the business.
It will reflect my description, “Dubli has never been about the front side of the business”. The Facebook post used hypothetical data to calculate the cashback commission. If it had been a very active part of the business, people would have referred to real income examples rather than to hypothetical data.
People will first look at their own “direct knowledge”, e.g. their own commissions. If they don’t find it there, then most people will look for “indirect knowledge”, e.g. other people’s direct knowledge about it. And then they will try to figure it out themselves.
Fractions of a percent sounds much more sustainable than what they were advertising.
If the that affiliate’s assertion is true though, it also raises some serious questions about false advertising. At the very least Dubli have been misleading through their lack of non-clarification of the cashback system.
Of course not. eCommerce retail has razor thin margins with online comparison shopping. There is no margin to offer rebates more than a token amount.
Which basically means Dubli is STILL a recruitment-driven scheme with an irrelevant online mall attached to it as disguise.
Heck, even Lyoness’s cashback seem to be more lucrative than this. 😀 It’s cheaper too. 😀
I see on Facebook that Team Wukar now has 8000 members. I was offered this opportunity a few months ago and fortunately for me I checked the payplan first and could not find any reason why you could make money from this.
I agree 100%, if you stop recruiting your income will stop. BTW thank you for the great work you guys do!
The example seemed to be about commissions from cashback = what the BA can earn in commission when a VIP customer he has introduced is purchasing something from Apple Store. “A penny here and a penny there … and you’ll soon becoming rich”.
The customer gets 7%
Dubli gets 0.8% –> the BA gets 0.2%
the guy they are talking about is Matt Trainer, the brain behind WUKAR, he is also a convicted felon and scammer, like Buck Reed.
I want to thank all those that got involved with this thread. I was recently offered an opportunity to join up with team WUKAR this week and did my usual behind-the-scenes investigation of all the nuts and bolts of Dubli before jumping on board.
I’m what you’d call a seasoned network marketer that has never really grabbed hold of the whole MLM concept, cuz it just hasn’t been my style of marketing.
After following up with all of the info on this thread, I’ve made it a point to not get involved in this mess. It sure looked promising on the front-end, but after performing my due diligence, I know otherwise.
Here’s how Tony speaks about his peers once he’s left the company. This is what he truly thinks of David Wood.
Nice guy. Makes you really want to work with Tony, doesn’t it?
So here’s a question from a guy named Ray:
And here’s how Tony responds …
These all mean the product can’t stand on it’s own either and throws ‘AUTHENTICITY’ out the window. The guy’s a blowhard douche
Slightly OT: I took a look at Tony’s FB page and saw that Brent Payne had given Tony’s above rant an “Amen”.
Hadn’t seen Brent in some time but a few clicks later revealed that he’s been starting up a new mlm company that sells a personal development app. Probably a lot of the old LLI material updated and put into video format. vimnow.com
anyone know what up, im hearing rummors and reading posts on the WUKAR leaders youtube accounts. Lots of wukar recruits are asking questions, seems like no one understands the new binary, and most havent been paid.
Here’s one comment from about a week ago
Looks like a house of cards. i like the one where they ask about the cayman house, becasue the land is still swamp, im thinking they will have trouble answering that one.
Bunch of goofballs joining something before they even know how they get paid or DONT get paid. Ill bet she didnt get much of a response.
I have yet to talk to a Dubli rep that has a copy of the comp plan, let alone be able to explain it.
Sad to say its common in MLM. If people actually knew how to read a comp plan, or knew how they ACTUALLY get paid, there would be very few companies left to choose from.
I haven’t exactly gone looking for it but a copy of this “lol we recruited everyone now no more recruitment commissions” comp plan has yet to surface.
I was introduced to the business as well. I was very skeptical. I chose to be a free member that later upgraded to a vip.
I’ve read the entire thread, great points are made. Without knowing what you people are smarter than me figured out, I didn’t want to do it. Now I’m glad I didn’t.
Few questions…. What mlm is the best?
Do you use dubli at all? If so, how much do you have pending and or received? If not, why not? A penny saved is a penny earned. I agree, their business model can’t sustain given the valid points you made, but as long as it does use it to your advantage.
I’ve made $354 cash in hand with another $240 pending from black Friday alone. I’ve used ebates, it’s great but I never even came close to this amount. If something is they’re and not only dubli u still will. All this in addition to using my bank cash back card.
I view this all as gas money at the very least. I know I’ll make my money back and won’t have to pay for the membership out of pocket again.
Outside of the MLM aspect which is moot for customers, what’s the crime in using?
there’s nothing illegal about the E commerce platform, but its not really theirs, they’re just using third party applications, you could easily find your self rather than using the Dubli web site, ( I supposed they made it convenient ). What’s questionable is the Pyramid recruitment scheme they have back ending it, and where they are generating the money to pay more cash back to the VIP members, because its greater than what the retailer is offering, so where is it coming from? Its illegal in the United States, Canada, and the EU to run a business where the bulk of your income generated is from recruitment. So to answer your question, you might be enjoying the cash back returns, however they funds you are receiving may be coming from an an illegal pyramid scheme where many unsuspecting, or just naive people will lose theirs.
Thanks for your reply Dave. How do I find them myself? Which do you have set up? They’re are places that aren’t on the site that I would like to use. Also, I’ve used priceline numerous times and priceline appears to have given them their own portal where they don’t even send you to priceline’s site. What does that mean?
I agree, their recruitment strategy is questionable. I’m interested in the cash back not building a business. If they keep it open and pay the percentages, the show goes on. People lose money in business everyday. I’m getting money for things I had to and will have to buy.
I would still like to know a great mlm. It seems that everyone has something negative to say about everyone that I’ve heard of.
One post mentioned the board being paid to be on the board. I thought that at first too. Does anyone have resources to check I to their financial info? If you have a lot of money and have a great rep, why that on the line for a pyramid scheme? Every where I’ve worked is actually structured the same. Why are they not pyramids and dubli and all mlm are?
if you set up a paypal account they will give you cash back with a number of companies. PayPal is most certainly affiliated with the companies they advertise with, as they are one of the largest E commerce companies on the planet. Also some visa and master cards work in conjunction with PayPal giving even more back, you’ll need to look into it further. I’m not much of an MLM guy, i did DD on dubli as a stock investor and it what i found put my red flags up. You wont find any financials on Dubli because they haven’t updated a SEC file in two years, and haven’t released their current compensation plan, also the CEO having an unregulated loan to the company is also a big red flag ( what interest rate does it have? can he determine it? )
here are some free cash back web sites, some of these work with paypal as well
As you can see in this screenshot, I was paid $125 today in cashback on purchases I’ve made, loaded on to my MasterCard:
They released an annual SEC 10-K Dec 24th 2014, go.
Thanks for linking that. I was going to do a writeup but then I realized it was only for the financial year ending September 2013.
Dubli did record $3 million in net revenue for the year, but that was before they rebooted earlier this year in the US. Dubli wasn’t a blip on the radar for 2013 so there’s not much point covering the rest of the report.
If you look at the statements, by ditching their auctions they made huge cuts to their revenue deficits (auctions were bleeding them dry via commission payouts). That’s the primary factor for the net revenue as opposed to the 27 million loss during 2012.
Another point of interest is Hansen is paid $420,000 annually and is loaning Dubli millions to stay afloat. He’s going to want to collect interest and I’m not sure how long that’s going to continue to go on for (latest loan agreement was signed Aug 2014 for another 5 years).
Next year’s report (ending September 2014) is the one that’ll be interesting to go over. Or even the first quarter for 2014 whenever that’s filed. No doubt their statements will show a huge boost in revenue from membership sales (affiliate revenue), but little else.
Hopefully their statements include net revenue from the shopping portal or some such, as that’ll be a key indicator of people using the portal. Won’t tell us if it’s retail or affiliate activity, but at least it’ll give us a number to compare against (affiliate) membership revenue.
That’s if they don’t pull a dodgy and try to group affiliate voucher purchases with retail shopping portal memberships though.
Looking at the recent filings the reports are behind (the year ending September 2012 was only filed back in August). In the latest 10-K they do state they’ve hired an accounting firm after acknowledging their current management’s lack of experience, so hopefully the first quarter report for next year will be out before the middle of the year.
In any event, as I understand it things have quietened down now that they’ve switched over to this binary plan that nobody knows anything about.
Early adopters did their recruiting and made bank, with the plan now appearing to be something something magic adoption of shopping portal nobody is interested in.
Just like Jubi, eh?
If it really “stands on its own” and sell itself they wouldn’t need salespeople at all. 😀
So what your saying, they realized that they’d be shut down if they continued with the recruitment comp plan, so now there’s some hybrid plan that keep some people at the top happy and the rest are no longer interested. lol.
Just call it what it really is: bait and switch.
Searched around and found the addition to the Dubli comp plan:
^^ According to that guy the binary is whacked on top of the existing recruitment-driven compensation plan. I’ve heard differently.
Pending official compensation plan documentation from Dubli itself, I’m hesitant to put anything to paper as I suspect it’s changed again since that video was uploaded (September 2014).
Over the last 90 days, the big income stories have gone away. The screen shots are less and less pronounced.
What you’ll start to see now is Tony Rush and John Lavenia selling systems to all of the members.
“Home Business Labs” is the next money grab. They even call it the “Tony Rush” funnel. His ego and arrogance knows no bounds.
Now they’ll cross-recruit from other people’s teams in Dubli. Once a cross-recruiter, always a cross-recruiter.
In other news, what happened to their follow-up training event? I’m betting they can’t book it because people are starting to drop out as fast as they were joining back in August and September.
Dubli is using accrued accounting = revenue isn’t registered before the sale has been fully completed.
You can add “Deferred income” (liability) to the amount it has RECEIVED from affiliates or customers. It can have some different names, e.g.:
* Unearned subscription fees and advertising (7,011,100 )
* Business Associates payable (10,915,104 )
* Customer deposits (2,209,879 )
I’m not sure about the second one, “Business Associates payable”.
Option (c ) can be compared to Zeek Rewards’ “Cash available”. People paid real money in, and received some type of internal currency (Bidding Credits), which could be used in auctions to win internal giftcards, which could be transferred to an internal “Cash Organizer” and be used to buy more internal currencies (Bidding Credits).
That’s a circular system based solely on non monetary transactions. The fact that people had 2 options to withdraw it as real money doesn’t make the third option become real money.
That’s probably one of the reasons for why those auctions were decided to be discontinued in October 2012. They had simply become too risky after the shutdown of Zeek Rewards.
THE SECOND AUCTION TYPE
(both auction types)
The total amount of Bidding Credits purchased for real money in 6 months (October 1 2012 – March 28 2013) was $25,466,222, if I have guessed correctly.
$1,668,892 worth of products and S&H was distributed. That must have been related to the Unique Bid Auction (because the Express Auction only distributed internal giftcards).
I will need to check on the internet what the affiliates actually could buy for those internal giftcards. Dubli in its July 2014 version sold customers / downlines to affiliates.
My 2 previous posts, #191 and #192, were both based on Dubli’s Form 10-K “Annual Report … for the fiscal year ended September 30 2013”, published December 24 2014, link found in post #182.
From my POV, Dubli has always been operated as a pyramid scheme disguised behind a facade of insignificant but legitimate business activities (pretending to be more significant than they really are), so I specifically checked how income from recruitment scheme / auctions had been reported, but without digging too deep into details.
Some general conclusions can probably be made based on that “quick look”, but I would need more information to back up those conclusions.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
CONTENT OF THE REPORT
PART I (I didn’t use that)
PART II (I used some financial data from page 24)
Item 7. Management’s Discussion and Analysis of …
PART III (I didn’t use that)
PART IV (descriptions of auctions were found there, page 44+++)
Item 15. Exhibits and Financial Statement Schedules
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
The report seems to have been designed to make it difficult to get the true context, e.g. by presenting corresponding information “here and there”.
* The table on page #24 could give the impression of a $700 million business, i.e. the face value of auctioned giftcards were more than $700 million. But the Bidding Credits sold were only $25.5 million = 3.5% of what Dubli pretended to be the real “auction activity”.
My conclusion is that any legitimate part of the business is rather insignificant, but presented so it can look more significant than it really is.
Here’s a list of Dubli Inc. (Nevada) subsidiaries, from the 10-K:
I added that list because it probably is a complete list. Some of the company names were known, others were unknown.
The network activity is probably organized through the BVI located Dubli Network Limited. Other activities are organized in other jurisdictions, and this list shows which jurisdictions.
Sounds Tony et al, are gearing up their exit plan from Dubli.
But I thought they were all going to hang out party in the Caymans drinking margaritas all day on their SVP properties. I’m shocked this might have been deceptive.
I’m sorry to report, Dave, that they already have too many Senior Vice Presidents who’ve qualified for those “plots” in the Caymans. So, not only have they not developed the area as of yet, but they don’t have enough to go around.
2015 will be very interesting to watch for sure.
They supposedly have all of this incredible traffic coming from SEO guru Matt Trainer, but how many of those people will buy in for $2500 especially when they see the first ones in got specially arranged deals (like being compensated by Dubli for cross-recruiting).
but what about all these people in 2010, you can see here they were invited to select out their plot of swamp, I mean land. Are you telling me they are still waiting for their dream houses on millionaires row to be built. I know Jason Pickthall ( the developer ) is still in jail, maybe their just waiting for him to get out. 🙂
The word on the street is Matt’s rotator plan is in a major delay, this is from a posting on a blog.
I joined Dubli because of Team Wukar. We received an update last night and we’re looking at a MAJOR delay with the SEO rotator. I have a decision to make, do I stay or do I go?
2015 will be interesting
Only if you’re watching.
Not if you’ve got money invested.
Does this dubli thing really legit. I have a friend that went in for 2800 and i really dont know if i should join or not i have mixed feelings about this.
Im pretty sure he did not join for 2800 he is just telling me so i can join too.
Why did your friend join Dubli for $2800? Why would you join for $2800?
You and I sure as shit know it has nothing to do with acquiring cashback customers.
Hell, just ask your friend how many non-affiliate cashback customers he’s acquired (excluding people he pitched the opportunity to and then settled to spam them a temporary membership voucher when they refused).
Last time I checked, a few months ago, you could join at any level:
* BA Business Associate ($500 or $600), a.k.a. TM Team Member
* TL Team Leader ($2,500)
* TC Team Coordinator (appr. $6,000)
* SD Sales Director (appr. $12,000)
The amounts are from memory. I’m not sure how accurate they are now, but they should be “within range”.
From my point of view, you’re a little too late or a little to early. Dubli will usually come up with some “new, innovative changes, which will become the next big thing on the internet” – one or two times per year. It will have some momentum for a few months, but after that the business will be almost dead.
Save your money brother. This company is a complete mess and I wouldn’t be surprised if they close the doors this year. I “bought it” to the concept of Dubli and the idea of partnering with “Team WUKAR” closed the deal for me. The problem is both have failed in a big way.
Dubli is constantly changing things (new binary for one) and their customer support is a complete joke.
I do use the membership and it appears to work relatively well, but the main thrust from WUKAR and Dubli is to recruit, recruit, recruit.
The only reason the “leaders” are making money is due to their recruiting efforts. Most are former Empower Network leaders who have swung over a nice sized group.
WUKAR has failed to deliver the goods on their marketing. Folks are bitching and moaning over the “Rotator” and people have made hundreds of thousands of videos yet they’ve seen noting from it yet.
It’s my opinion that they traffic is there but the conversions for both free and VIP memberships suck so bad they wouldn’t dare open the traffic flood gates yet.
I thought I was going to be an easy sell and boy was I wrong. Thankfully I didn’t opt for the $2400 package…that would have made for a bad year.
Dubi’s own marketing sites are about as bad as it gets. They have pre-written auto-responders that absolutely destroy the English language. It’s embarrassing
Michael Hanson parades around like he’s gods gift and he’s pretty arrogant as well.
Wait until the new VP’s find out the lots in Cayman (that they’ve been promised) are still tied up with the government.
The owner of Crown Acquisitions Worldwide is apparently in jail for beating up some pool girl. I hope he rots in hell!
Good luck but take my work for it and stay clear!
That didn’t surprise me. 🙂
EN’s methods and other similar methods are primarily designed “to activate people, in a way they believe in themselves (the people)”.
They’re designed to generate ACTIVITY rather than RESULTS, to keep people busy for a period of time and to make them willing to pay.
Empower Network and other similar programs have simply analysed “What can people be willing to pay for?”.
The answer to that question is that “people will be willing to pay for IDEAS they can believe in, ideas they already have (more or less)”. They will usually prefer some NEW ideas of the same type as the ones they already believe in.
Some ideas are easier to sell than others, e.g. a “think positive” idea may be relatively easy to sell to some people. It will be even easier to sell if you add some substance to it, e.g. “program your mind to become successful”. Adding some pseudo science to back up the idea may work on some people.
People can be willing to pay for the results they BELIEVE they will get. They won’t need to get those results in reality. Simple ideas like “blog daily, to drive traffic to your primary lead capturing page” will be much easier to sell than more complicated ideas that actually may work.
I’m pretty sure people BELIEVED the rotator and other components would be a solution that actually could work?
The key is to get OTHER PEOPLE to believe in those ideas. You won’t need to believe in them yourself. If you believe too strongly in some ideas, you will most likely “oversell it”.
Sales people like Tony Rush will use rather vague arguments, e.g. “If you see what I see” (allowing people to fill in their OWN ideas), “Work with Tony Rush” (allowing people to fill in their own ideas for what they can expect from that).
So lets say i join for 500 and gdt people to join om 99 follar a year passes, dont i get money for it and commision on the cashbacks that they save?
Until Dubli release the new comp plan visible to everybody, that’d be unconfirmed speculation.
the compensation plan is all over youtube. people are explaining how it is…
i still do not get what this rotator mean..i mean for the client side is good…only if you shop non stop online and never hit a grocery store you can make some money back on trips and flights that u book.
like i said ive been going at it for 2 months and i dunno wat to do. other places people say how good dubli is and bla bla bla and here and other places say how shit and dumb dubli is lol.
i really dont know why he joined at that level maybe he is talking shit and just is working with someone that is on that level..
i think he said if u join at that level you can bring in non profit organisations and make good commissions out of everyone that joins from that non profit organisation.
i have a feeling it 2will be good for a little while and then they are going to decide to close everything down and fuck all the people that put money in it….
heck they dont even fucking have a phone number that u can call them if therer is something wrong with ur payments or you cashback rewards.
So how many non-profit organisations has he brought into Dubli since joining then?
How many do you see yourself bringing in?
But it’s NOT on the Dubli website, is it? So how *do* we know it’s the more accurate and up to date version? Or even the OFFICIAL version? And why isn’t it on PAPER or PDF? So you can keep a copy in case they renege on you?
What Youtube got are people’s INTERPRETATION of the plan, not the plan itself. Beware of the “telephone effect”.
Sorry, one more point.
A comp plan is a contract between you and the company. It defines how you are being compensated, and what you have to do to be thus compensated. It needs to be a DOCUMENT, i.e. something that can be SIGNED, or at least inspected.
Amway has their IBO agreement visible to all. Heck, even CostCo (non-MLM, buyer’s club) have them available online.
Youtube vid is not a document you can sign. It’s member’s own INTERPRETATION of the comp plan, reflecting his/her understanding (and/or misunderstandings) and mindset. It’s an advertisement.
AFAIK, it means the random folk who got to Dubli without a referral code gets assigned to a rep via this “rotator”.
Chances of you benefiting from this rotator is negligible to nil, since they’ll never tell you how it really works, or how many people went through and joined via that way.
I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but I’ve seen it happen (somewhere else).
Ask yourself these questions:
* Does the Dubli business model make sense? (Where are they getting the money to pay you all? Does what they claim make sense?)
* Does it make sense for you join Dubli? (i.e. are you being paid enough for your efforts, given the comp plan)?
* How likely are you to actually make money via Dubli? (i.e. counting expenses and time, are you better off flipping burgers or do Dubli?)
Feel free to share your personal answer to these three questions. I won’t answer them for you yet, as I want to hear what YOU think about these three questions, do they make sense to you, etc. etc.
Been a recipient on this blog for a while now, and i will try and clear up a few things. I have been a BA for over a year now.
1.The customer side works. I have earned over 1500.00 in one year and i have actually received my money on my dubli mastercard debit card and used the money for this years holiday shopping.
2.I have over 100 customers signed up and out of those 13 are vip, which 10 off those i sold my original vip vouchers that i got as part of my TLC package.
3.It is not easy to sign up customers. i found if i take time to show the how the cashback works they sign up, but very few convert to VIP or even use the cashback because they forget they have it or just dont want to bother. I have signed up 1 non profit organization, but other in my area have singed up numerous, mostly sports organizations.
4. I personally never signed up in order to recruit other BA’s. I was turned off by the tactic’s that were being presented to my by a so call mlm expert. He wanted us to use tricks to make people say yes to something they did not fully understand.
My gut instinct was right as we see now all these get rich quick gurus join. Ps this person is now in jail for past crimes not associated with Dubli. My reason to sign up was that i saw the value to the customer and the chance to help the non profits.
5. Dubli is not into the Auction stuff anymore.
6.Customer service has been pretty responsive via email for me.
7. If you are a current BA the comp plan and explanation is available in your back office, but dont ask me to explain. I know what commissions i get from my customers thats it.
8.i have made back my initial investment, from both the cashback as a customer and some stock that i bough last year, so right now i am just using the cashback for my personal and buisness purchases, and slowly growing my customer side.
i dont see any significant revenew for me fron this usless Dubli decides to promote the cashback rather then the buisness side of this. I have met the CEO several times and his view of Dubli is that everyone in the world with now Dubli like they know Google.
I fell he is not focusing on this right now so where this goes is up in the air for now. hope this helps everyone.
honestly i really dont know how to answer to your three questions because i have never been to a meeting…i live in canada and my friend told me there is only 3 people in canada that pitch dubli including him…i really had hard time believing that.
now the post above me is a guy that is explaining how good dubli is while the previous post are guys saying that dubli sucks and its a bad thing…this is where im stuck at…even if u sign up non profit organization doesnt mean that u will make money because the organisation has to sign other people up.
if you join for 500$ you can get people to sign up and get revenue off them and a 25$ bonus off every person u refer too….but you only get a percentage off the savings of people not on how much they spend…
so at the end i find that u need to have alot and i mean alot of people under you so u can make some ok money.
So let’s be honest:
* Does the Dubli business model make sense? (Where are they getting the money to pay you all? Does what they claim make sense?)
Unknown, unlikely. Affiliate commission generally is in the 1-4%. Even if Dubli takes no cut for them to offer cashback, PLUS 4-6% bonus doesn’t make sense, esp. if the upline gets something too. So, where that money’s coming from? (One possibility is they are taking it from the “accelerator packs”)
* Does it make sense for you join Dubli? (i.e. are you being paid enough for your efforts, given the comp plan)?
If you can shop enough to make back the monthly / yearly dues, why not. But BUYING your rank up instead of recruiting? Forget it.
* How likely are you to actually make money via Dubli? (i.e. counting expenses and time, are you better off flipping burgers or do Dubli?)
You’ve answered this one: unlikely, requires a LOT of recruiting.
So that pretty much summed it up: don’t bother. it makes little sense as a business (for you). It only makes sense as a “money saver”.
Borrowed concepts, 3rd party technology, no innovation of their own, their “competetion” is free. 99.2% of all commissions is derived from recruiting efforts, their “leadership” has a track record of going from deal to deal.
NO ONE in the company has EVER built a network that has lasted more than 3 years. NO ONE in the company has EVER built a residual income.
The company will collapse under its own weight in a few short months. Dubli will NOT see a 2016 in any reasonable form unless they drastically change.
A quick Google search will tell you that nothing has really changed since 2007. Some minor changes to the compensation plan, some new components to the front side of the business when the old ones have become outdated. That’s all.
“Dubli compensation plan” (random examples)
Aug 2007 NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3_x4YimRUQ
May 2010 NOLINK://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd5k5k_dubli-network-compensation-plan_tech
Apr 2014 NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jpKuF6Hio
I don’t think there has been any disputes about that? The auctions worked too. The dispute was usually about how many real customers it had, and whether it was a primary part of the business or a secondary part.
There is one thing we cn agree on is…you need a lot fo custumers just tp see a couple of hundred dollars a year
We clearly can. That was my conclusion too in the statement “nothing has really changed from 2007 to 2014” (post #218).
What the hell is team wukar?
Search results indicated some top earners, e.g. John Lavenia, Tony Rush, Matt Trainer.
Jim brought it up in post #203, “wukar didn’t deliver”, and I replied to that post with “That didn’t surprise me”.
He also mentioned something about a “rotator”. I replied to that too, but I didn’t know exactly what it was. My post was mostly about some general ideas, not specifically about wukar or the rotator.
People buy IDEAS, e.g. it may be easier to sell the IDEA of “the collective efforts of a whole team, organized by top earners” than it will be to sell the idea “join and recruit”. People may expect to get something EXTRA from the first idea.
You can look at post #203 to see what Jim expected to get.
It’s much easier to sell the idea “you won’t need to recruit anyone personally, the team leaders will do the closing for you. All you need to do is to promote the business and drive traffic to the website (by doing some simple activity). The system itself will generate profit for you”.
“Wake Up * Kick Ass * Repeat” (according to the logo)
Through my own research (I’m pretty good at digging up the dirt) I’ve learned thet two firms both from the same location in England, one named Oasis and the other Crowne (sounds like a Pub name, like the Rose & Lion) are behind the Cayman Island development.
Fron what I’ve discovered is that neiher company has a proven track record in this field. Essentially what they do is buy plots of land to divide into lots to be sold at a substantial markup of approx. 33%.
They claim this is deserved because the exclusivity of the planned development. In the case of the one Dubli is talking about, it means a gated community with a 4 hole (yes, you read that right – FOUR Holes only) golf course. You be the judge if all that exclusivity, is worth it.
Please take note that I could not find any link or tie-in (although I would not be surprised (birds of a feather etc.) with Dubli. Also take note that these lots are available for sale and are currently being pedaled and sales are being made.
It seems some firms will always fill their quotas with the unfortunate who fail to do their research and I only hope, this little bit helps.
its actually an exclusive swamp at this time. :).
mine’s based in reality.
Wuh? You need 9 or 18 holes to be called a “golf course”.
lol…..it’s not even considered a pitch and putt.
did you look at the map? the Water hazards are huge 🙂
no. it won’t affect my joke will it? 🙂
DUBLI is the joke 🙂
No it adds to the joke, the property isn’t even close to being a pitch n putt. its over half swamp land, maybe they can have a dubli alligator farm.
Until then, they will have to settle for mud wrestling 🙂
Mud wrestling with Tony Rush in corner and Matt Trainer in the other corner.
If you cover both of them with mud, they look like giant oompa Loompas.
you can see by the visits to Dubli it peaked in September, October, had a small spike in December is now on its way back down.
The word i got from a WUKAR member is the team is crumbling, the “rotators” which were promised to deliver customers and affiliates are non-existent, and people are leaving.
They were posting Wukar team size updates till DEC, then stopped.
Tony posted that they are having an event in Vegas next month. It’s for Dubli people but is on the Home Business Labs site.
I wouldn’t rely on the alexa website for any reliable information.
If Matt Trainer really has SEO experience, he’d easily be able to push fake traffic through the site. His girl friend recently lost thousands of fake followers on Instagram.
The WUKAR and Dubli leaders are all very deceitful.
I’ve only seen about 25 likes on Tonys Facebook page, so a far cry from what id expect from a team of 8000 people, and of course the typical caveat emptor is at the bottom once you register.
No Refunds, No Transfers, All Sales are Final. When you purchase you are agreeing to these terms as is.
At the upcoming Las Vegas Event, Tony Rush is going to dive in and teach the participants the exact strategies he used to cross-recruit, exagerate incomes and how he hid his signing bonuses from his subscribers.
You don’t want to miss these exciting presentation. I wonder if they’ll have MLM Attorney Kevin Thompson as a way to add credibility.
If anyone attends this event, can they ask Rush if he was the mystery affiliate paid $1 million to join Dubli?
I mean really, you don’t need to hold a big gala training event to tell people you got paid to join and bring your Empower Network team over.
Would LOVE to see how many people actually make it to that “training” in Vegas. Its one of the cheapest places to travel to in the US and I doubt very many Dubli people can even afford that. This outta be good.
Seriously, what are they going to train them on? How to get people to follow you into the next deal? What else do they know how to do?
While this is being marketed to Dubli people and they are bringing in the Dubli CEO as a guest speaker, it is not a Dubli event. This will give them the opportunity to round up as many of the Dubli sheeple in one spot as they can and get their “loyalty” to Rush, Lavinea, etc.
When it’s time for them to jump to the next scam, they will have their downline already in place to take along with them.
As seen on Tony Rush’s personal Facebook Wall —
Here’s the ironic part.
The biggest cross-recruiter in the history of network marketing is telling you it’s a safe space to come to his call, join his Facebook group, and opt-in to their generic mailing list.
Something else to note. If you listen in, you’ll see they don’t open the line for questions.
Live question and answer can’t happen in an environment where people are pissed off.
It’s an admission of guilt.
Train wreck in slow motion.
Here we go….again!!
Team WUKAR are finally ‘launching’ on Feb 10th I hear…and also they are announcing ‘WUKAR PRO’ – yup, you guest it…will cost the poor old ‘Wukar team member’ some hard earned money which would have normally gone towards their childrens inheritence…
Oh the poor people!!
Talk about bait and switch and being fleesed at every conceivable level…
Is HomeBusinessLabs free or ‘paid for’ also?
Better join now to get into the WUKAR Founders Club! Only the first 10,000 paying members get in!
So now with this new update that team wukar is gonna pull out people are going to make a bit of money for a while and then it will be all closed for another 4 5 months?
It seems like it’s all about WUKAR now, very rarely do I see any mention of Dubli these days
lol Wukar leader ship at its finest, Kristian Hoenicke , what do you think of this?
Its called avoiding everyone because the Wukar scam is unravelling and he’s working on his next one, but please be patient he’s working on a better way to help everyone, but it will take several weeks.
But please show up the my Vegas event and fork out five hundred dollars, what an ass.
So Tony Rush’s mob have severed ties with WUKAR, sounds like the wheels are coming off the bus then.
Gotta wonder where Dubli management is in all of this. Busy poaching other leaders with million dollar bribes I guess…
So sad to see all this pullig down on people who are really doing something amazing for their teams, Dubli having such a great product actually saving money on your shopping (yes and they do pay out!) and giving such a great opportunity to non-profit organizations to receive more income for FREE!
(Ozedit: Offtopic waffle removed)
So fed up with negative shit people always right about companies and people who are really making a difference! I believe every opportuniy works, it’s YOU who doesn’t want to work!
Dubli doesn’t have a product.
Access to third-party discounts is not a viable MLM product.
but only you are making yourself read it. lol
So fed up with positive **** people who just want to toss around platitudes in condescending whining tones: “why are you so negative about _____”.
If you have problem with the review, address why. “You’re just so negative” is your OPINION, which is NOT A FACT to be argued.
FWIW, Kim seem to have made a second career out of selling supplements, “health” products, and Empowered Network in the past few years. Now she’s selling water filters.
It looks like Team Wukar has now experienced the ego of Tony Rush. Along with his little Muppet John Lavenia. The only people left to willing to follow these stooges are the unknowing.
In the last six months:
Tony Rush screws David Wood by cross-recruiting the snot out of Empower Network.
Tony Rush gets a signing bonus with Dubli thanks to the edification of Team Wukar and then privately denies it when asked.
Tony Rush says screw you, Wukar. I don’t need you anymore.
I’ll go and build Home Business Labs so I can charge my members monthly and build my income that way for awhile until the next deal comes along.
A word to the wise.
Look out if Tony Rush wants to come to your organization.
What the heck is in the water down there in Dothan?
Well what did people expect from Matt trainer, a persons past behavior is generally the best indication of their future behavior.
Him and his brother already served time for a two and half million dollar fraud, in which he gambled alot of peoples savings away in Vegas then fled to Panama.
Not completely related but interesting none the less:
full article here:
Has this dood got hid numbers right?
Compare them to the review and work it out. Trouble with Dubli is when shopping has been the focus they never went anywhere.
Then they switched up the focus to affiliate recruitment last year and Tony Rush and co. all jumped on board.
Now it’s supposedly somewhere in the middle (they won’t release their actual comp plan), so it’s floundering again.
Looks like Kristian H. has now fled Team WUKAR as this just came out about an hour ago….
Not going to mention what my name is but I’m in a chat which includes WUKAR Sales Directors and above. After the email went out from Colton an argument exploded in the WUKAR SD and above chat, enjoy:
Here’s a continuation of the conversation above:
So uh, WUKAR hold events where management get up on stage and simulate man-on-man oral sex.
I can provide any information from the inside of team Wukar as I’m a part of all their systems.
Matt Trainer is definitely running a scam just like he did in the past. This guy needs to be put back in prison along with his girlfriend Tar’Lese.
My team signed up major non profits. Not one of them had any success getting their own members to sign up for dubli.
The reason why? The product is not incredible, the savings is nothing compared to Amazon and other sites.
When will you wake up and realize you were brainwashed into Matt Trainer’s bogus dreams.
Yet, that’s exactly how you treat them. Who cares if they got the email, they are their own people to chose as they wish right? I mean, that’s what you’re saying right? YOU wouldn’t be using them to make YOU money right?
Anyone that works for a real company is free to work a second job without the real company saying one word – certainly can’t say the same in his scam world.
They can also go to another job if they feel that’s better for them. Other companies are going to make offers to other company’s employees. Happens all the time in the real world.
No, they’re not or they’d be free to do as they wish and YOU wouldn’t worry about losing income from them.
Employees can come and go in a real company and the owners still make money because they are selling real products.
These disingenuous scumbags make me puke.
then they are an employee.
Not to worry, everyone. John Lavenia (who’s been in Give Opp, Zeek Rewards, Liberty League, Empower Network, and now Wukar and Home Business Labs) will save the day.
He’s the author of “Integrity Is Everything.” And the best friend of Tony Rush.
And he is a raving looney member of the “church” of $cientology, so he is well aware of how to fleece the gullible.
The latest email from Team Wukar below. It’s really sad how Team Wukar leaders have manipulated young Ben into providing services he could charge for good money for free. Meanwhile, they suck poor Ben’s money out of him for their racket. How long will 1000s of poor Wukarians allow the leaders to continue to scam all of them.
Why is this so?
$99 is the price of VIP (customer) membership, not the price of BA (TM Team Member) membership?
I dont remember the exact prices, but here’s a list:
* BA $600 or $500 Business Associate (TM Team Member)
* TL $2,500 Team Leader
* TC $6,000 Team Coordinator
* SD $12,000 Sales Director
– – – – – – Non BA – – – – – –
* VIP $99 annually
* Premium $5.95 monthly
So what are they going on about $99 BAs then if it’s not possible…?
Geez, you’d think Dubli’s own affiliates would know the business model.
When you’re dealing with that type of people (former EN members, etc.), “friendly reminders” can be highly needed. 🙂
He didn’t say it wasn’t possible, only that it wasn’t allowed. 🙂
Founder’s Club? what happened to Matts Millionaire’s Club? exclusive for the first one thousand, now its a founders Club for the first ten thousand?
Every time I listen to one of their videos its like listing to a Cult,
“you have to believe. because if you believe people will sense your sincerity”
“its like building a plane on the way down”
“We owe it to people to share this life changing opportunity with them ”
“apple had rough times”
Yeah like Wukar is comparable to Apple, what a bunch of weak minded zealots. At least some of them are starting to figure our this was a Matt Trainer & Rich Cook pump and dump as more and more are coming out about being taken.
I’m fairly certain legal action will be taken, there some good reading on pissed consumer dubli.pissedconsumer.com/wukar-beware-20150121585081.html
Now Tyron Indalsingh (major ponzi scumbag) is advertising several other ponzi scams to replace this bloated pig that he was pimping in a major way only a couple months ago!
So if I read this right, Team WUKAR is a pyramid scheme within a pyramid scheme?
$99 BA was added a couple months ago by Dubli.
However Wukar leaders say if a BA sells a $99 BA package they won’t have access to Wukar’s fabulous marketing tools because it’s a slap in the face to those who bought in at the $595 TM or $2,475 PPA package.
them taking the $595 or $2495 is the slap in the face.
So basically WUKAR don’t want to do business with anyone who doesn’t commit hundreds or thousands of dollars towards WUKAR affiliate’s commissions.
Sorry, I mean anyone who “isn’t serious about the business”.
Looks like the Extreme FB Group (HBL/Tony Rush) is kicking people out for simply asking questions for which they can’t seem to answer! If you have a differing opinion – watch out!
Run for the hills if you’re ever approached and offered Dubli.
How will poor Tony, WUKAR and their misfits ever get paid if people are only doing a $99 signup? ha ha.
Tony should be fine with this, He can just call them a wussy, Tell them they need to be a BadAss and go “all in”. That seems to have served him well 🙂
Ironic that on the day we all remember Auschwitz, a place where a persons individuality was erased… The HBL ‘leaders’ are ‘erasing’ people for having a differing view & valid questions!
Wake up people! Never stop asking questions!
yo oz why is there so much people hating on you and saying that everything you say its a lie and bullshit?
Everybody loves BehindMLM… until I review an opportunity they started or are in as an affiliate.
Well, that much is true for the MLM underbelly crowd. If only for the reason that education and understanding are counter-productive to scamming people.
Compensation plans are usually publicly available (Dubli hide theirs for some reason), so BehindMLM reviews can usually be verified considering that’s what they’re based on.
Do your own research and, unless you’re lying to yourself, you’ll likely draw the same conclusions I do.
haters gotta hate. no scammer ever likes their scam revealed.
It’s called cognitive dissonance. 🙂 The short explanation is when a brain receives two mutually conflicting set of facts.
People who joined the scheme (“it’s the greatest thing ever!”) then found BehindMLM (“it’s a scam and this is why…”) have to resolve the dissonance in their head by reconciling the two, and often what they’ll do is go with what they **want** to believe (“it’s the greatest thing ever!”) and attack the one they do NOT want to be true (“it’s a scam”).
I recommend you to read a guest post I did for something else:
(Ozedit: Please choose one username if you wish to continue commenting here.)
After reaching out to the company about their compensation plan, I was received the following response:
This really seems strange to me, since they also hold BAs liable for the compensation plans they allow to be promoted.
According to the policies and procedures:
So I reached out to a member and attained the “most current copy” of the compensation plan, which apparently was difficult for them to find (I was first offered a video instead). You better believe there wasn’t a single mention of the Cayman lots!
One other thing I found interesting in the policies and procedures:
I’ve definitely seen this rule broken by a few.
Simply put, any MLM company in 2015 still hiding their compensation plan from the general public is waving a huge red flag.
What’s worse is Dubli have been around for years in one format or another. They should know better…
From Dubli Support in answer to questions posed:
Further pressing for an answer…
And confirmation about just how LITTLE commission you make:
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Wow, my oxymoron’o’meter just ‘sploded.
Publicly available information hidden in the Dubli backoffice? Thanks for the laugh…
I suppose by that logic Dubli claims their compensation plan is publicly available too.
a listed company [ pink sheet or not], making such horrendous statements is UNbelievable.
why is the federal SEC or even state SEC, not doing anything? this company is in full public view, and it is ‘listed’ for heavens sake, inaction is a piss poor public message!
the securities act was enacted for public protection, and dubli is cocking a snook at the SEC, without a care in the world.
nobody but nobody, should be allowed to USE the protection of SEC registration, to conduct open fraud.
They’ve always been a scam and that’s why they keep moving the goal posts hoping to stay one step ahead of regulators.
Oz, have you done a review on home business labs? I spit out my coffee when I saw Tony, John and Kristian are now claiming they have a “rotator” lmfao that members pay $15 to receive free leads from.
These guys are crooks of the highest order, I hope they all end up behind bars.
Ive provided information in earlier posts in-regards to cayman properties, according to their own SEC file they have only placed a 900k down payment with Crown World the, owners of the cayman properties, on 15 lots.
Crown World was recently question for Land Banking which is illegal, I’ve provided minutes for that inquiry, and its clearly stated in the minutes that the Cayman Government has not cleared Crown World to begin the development.
The land is still swamp, requires extensive work, I’ve provided satellite images.
Dubli even has a video from 2010 where they have 12 or so SVP picking their lots from the first iteration of Dubli. Are these people still waiting? was this staged? or did Dubli just change the conditions on them? who knows.
Simply put the Cayman properties are fictitious, they they have used this over and over again to bring in the naive and gullible.
Dubli would require profits in the hundreds of millions to have the resources it would need to develop the resort they are advertizing. To quote another poster, “PLEASE PEOPLE Wake Up!”
Alexa statistics. Dublinetwork.com and Teamwukar.com have exactly the same “Country” statistics. Homebusinesslabs.com is slightly different.
Downline builder != MLM opportunity.
Unless they have an MLM compensation plan attached?
I dont need a company to provide Cars, Property Bonuses or anything else. Put ALL the money in the pay plan so people can get paid what they are owed, And i will buy my own car/property and take the tax write off myself.
“free” car? “free “property” What a joke. Where do they think the money comes from to aquire this stuff? Are land owners just giving property away to special people these days?
TRUST ME you are paying for it. DEARLY and you dont even get the deduction, ha ha. Yes MLM’ers are Sooooo Business savy, ha ha ha NOT! 🙂
Here’s the latest smoke and mirrors team WUKAR email update:
Its sooo cool to see that team WUKAR has cracked the code on how to generate this “amazing” amount of traffic that will sign up for their deal.
Funny how companies with Hundreds of full time IT people, Hundreds of the top SEO and SEM people in the world, the principals and investors from Adobe, Amazon, and many other ecommerece companies with household names, 100million+ unique visitors a month already in place and BILLIONS of dollars to play with, cant do.
Team WUKAR is is awesome. They cracked the code that industry experts have been working on for for decades, in just a few short months. AMAZING!
How stupid are the Cancer research people? Geez, All they have to do is call team WUKAR and we will have a cure in a couple weeks. Duh!
so they are going with a ptc scam now?
Their mention of credits sounds like PTC or a Traffic Exchange (Manual or Autosurf).
The type of people they will attract are those who are only interested in clicking and surfing for pennies.
Now we have reps mining email addresses and adding people as customers without their permission. Not that this is something rare with crap deals, but interesting none the less.
Kudos to them for actually responding BUT, Here is the rediculous message you get when asking to be removed.
Could there have been a typo? Sure. 5 minutes after recieving a spam message on FB where the email address is listed? Yup. Still possible 🙂 Likely?
Great, Now I am on an Auto-Responder with no link to opt out. ha ha, The level of professionalism never ceases to amaze me with these people.
Dubli Corporate is going to get a nice email on that one ha ha.
Pretty much, these “cashback” deals have been left alone because they are just too miniscule to be bothered with and will dissapear all on their own anyway. BUT if they keep being annoying little gnats. They will be swatted in short order.
I am sure the Big Dogs would have no problem finding Copyright, Trademark and Patent infringments amongst other things.
Poking the Bear is NOT a good idea in this case. ha ha.
An interesting read from an ex Wukar member, i assume he hasn’t really learned his lesson as hes linked Home business labs at the end of the review. But its worth noting that nothing that Wukar claimed to have set up is currently functioning.
I’d be interested in knowing how many members left during this last month.
a TOTAL waste of time credibility and money. Has anyone ever worked with “leads” before? If they generate any leads at all it will not be enough to spread around. Even if their was enough, the leads are going to suck so bad its not even funny.
If they get “leads” do these hacks actually think they know how to handle them? I dont care how many tripple dipple optins and HOW many qualification questions they answer.
This all pie in the sky BS. Even if they do get a few signups, what then? The only way they will know how to support them is to tell them to “buy leads” ha ha… How insane is that?
Besides all this. ANY company or person that talks about what they are GOING to do instead of what they DID, is just rediculous.
For the most part, We dont talk about shit unless its DONE and functional. All this stringing people along stuff is NONSENSE.
Whats home business lab?
It’s downline builder program run by Dubli affiliates.
What does that mean..what is it for
It’s a tool for recruiting new affiliates into Dubli, under these specific affiliate’s downlines.
tony rush, who is a top affiliate of dubli, runs a company called home business labs.
you can see the video on the website of HBL, to understand what they are offering : homebusinesslabs.com/members/login.php
basically they offer you ‘training’ and sell you ‘business leads’ to help you recruit fresh dubli members to your team.
this is completely illegal, and tony rush is stupid to put up websites offering ‘recruitment leads for sale’.
amway, stopped its affiliates from setting up ‘tools and leads’ subsidiaries, a long time ago, and recently, herbalife also had to stop their affiliates from doing this.
if dubli goes down, tony rush will also be dead in the water, for running a ‘pyramid within a pyramid’.
If I remember correctly, they offer a marketing system “Ingreso Cybernetico” (autoresponder, downline builder, website builder, etc.). I’m not very interested in that myself, so I didn’t bother to check any details.
It’s easier to recruit people if you can offer some type of “system” people can believe in, or some type of training they can believe in. Generally speaking, it’s easier to recruit people if you can offer IDEAS they already believe in (or CAN believe in, or really want to believe in), plain and simple ideas people already are familiar with.
over the last 10 days or so home business labs is offering a new system called ‘myInspiredMedia’ at 67$ a month to pro members. i guess they have to keep introducing new ‘systems’ to keep the public paying in – oh, our last system dint work for you?- try this new system, by paying here!
Home Business Labs
Yesterday at 3:53am:
it’s just incredibly sweet of tony rush to give stuff worth 300$ for ‘free’, to people who will pay in 67$, month after month after month, but it’s ‘free’, so ….
That’s why I gave that additional explanation. It isn’t about the system, training or idea itself, but about what people already believe in (or CAN believe in, or really want to believe in).
* The people who join HBL or WUKAR believe in certain ideas, e.g. the idea that “people make money on the internet because they use better marketing systems than other people”.
* If people believe in other ideas, e.g. the idea that “people make money because they program their own minds to become successful on a daily basis”, then HBL would have needed to add that type of component.
If people in general believe that penny auctions are highly profitable, then a program offering profit sharing from a penny auction website will have a fair chance to attract a lot of investors. If people stop believing in ideas like that, then you must find other ideas they can believe in (or really want to believe in).
I don’t know how much people paid for the old system, but people DO buy newer and better models and they even try other brands from time to time.
A new model or brand, offered at the right time to the right price, can regenerate some of the “excitement” people felt initially when they bought into the opportunity. That excitement is probably important.
A new and better model may prevent some of them from leaving the opportunity too early (they would have felt stupid if OTHER PEOPLE had made success with the new model, while THEY themselves decided to leave it and didn’t have any success).
* New brand? YES
* Better model?
* Right price?
* Right time?
The people who joined WUKAR / HBL already believed in (or really wanted to believe in) the idea that a marketing system is one of the core factors people must have to be able to become successful. They will be willing to try MANY new systems, but usually only for some months.
right. tony rush has put up a video on his HBL website, which says that mcdonalds and dominoes, have shitty products, but are successful, only because they have a ‘great marketing system’ in place.
it’s like a ‘great marketing system’ is some self running, magical machine, which will start spewing out profits, when tacked into place.
and, if tony rush has invented the ultimate marketing system, he should patent it, and beat mcdonalds and dominoes to the bank. why just leak hot air?
Matt Trainer’s team WUKAR rotator launches in 3 days! Can’t wait to read his next excuse.
He’s pacing at home right now with Rich Cook and Tar’Lese Rideaux trying to think of what they could say to their sheep to add more time.
A major part of the problem is that people actually BELIEVE in certain ideas, e.g. that “internet is a gold mine” or that they can buy income as a product (buy the opportunity to earn an income).
The problem isn’t about whether they CAN buy income opportunities, but about that the whole idea is rather dysfunctional in itself, e.g. the “tap into the Internet’s largest pool of FREE traffic and leads” idea.
They obviously didn’t join because someone “tapped into the pool”, but they strongly believe other people will do it. 🙂
tony rush’s ‘home business labs’ is hosting a dashy flashy event at las vegas from 19th-21st feb, 2015. this is probably timed to publicize his ‘newly minted’ ‘‘myInspiredMedia’ marketing system.
the special guest at this event is CEO Michael Hansen of dubli.
so, if the SEC/FTC come calling, hansen can never pretend that he had no knowledge that top affiliates were running lead generation businesses behind his back. hansen is publicly blessing rush and HBL, there can be no return to innocence for him.
idiots have to pay around 300$ to attend the event and breathe the same air as the dubli gods. said idiots, will then continue paying 67$/month to HBL, and wait for their computers to start printing cash for them.
all this, is of course, over and above the cash they sink in dubli.
People really like to believe in ideas like that. MLM and network marketing are primarily based on ideas of the same type, that a “system” will generate profit. And some people CAN actually earn a profit if enough people believe in the same idea.
They really do don’t they. People are so gullible.
“When the company went bankrupt, it had paid about $30 million to 394 pigeon breeders – but had committed to paying them a further $350 million.
The only way it could make those payments, court heard, was to find more breeders.
In turn, that would put Pigeon King on the hook for a further $3 billion in payments.”
Matt Trainer proposed to Tar’Lese, have a funny feeling this event will somehow be a part of the excuse the marketing moron gives for his delayed beloved rotator.
I get all of WUKAR’s updates, I can’t wait to post their excuse after Tuesday’s “rotator launch” failure #13 by the self proclaimed “best SEO” on the planet that no other SEOs have heard of.
Latest Facebook post from Tar’Lese on Team Wukar’s facebook page:
LOL so many folks did not pay the $99 monthly fee to stay active. Dubli has reactivated all of them, they are getting really desperate now and so is team WUKAR.
This is great stuff. Today is Matt Trainer’s expected rotator launch. Yeah right.
I am getting my snacks ready for the big show today. Just saw this status update from one of the Wukar members. This is going to be brutal!
So just to clarify, were people dropping out of Wukar and Dubli by discontinuing the 99 dollar a month fee? So basically Dubli is saying comeback, look we reactivated your account for free, hoping people will give it one last chance.
Tom since you were a former BA, have you made any money from sales or purchases through your store, anything close to making up for the original BA price and the continued 99 fee.
Would you explain what exactly is Matt trainers Rotators launch, from what i understand of this i dont see how a series of home made videos by Wukar BA’s would result in any business traffic to the store.
Secondly I’ve done a lengthy search and i can not find a single product or any company supposedly affiliated with dubli, linked to the dubli store through Google. Yet i can find tons linked to PayPal, fat wallet other credit card vendors.
Just type LG LED (or any other product) Cash Back on Google, i have yet to see a single link to dubli. I doubt Matt Trainers Rotators will correct this.
Yes, Dave, They are the “Largest e-commerce site in the world” ha ha yet they dont handle a single transaction?? Ha ha. The rejects dont even know what e-commerece is.
Its a bunch of affiliate links with miniscule profit margins and nothing more. There are ZERO direct contracts with the stores.
You cannot do SEM or SEO for a product from a page full of affiliate links. They do NOT list or sell products or handle the transaction’s. This is NOT e-commerece, its affiliate marketing at best. A very lame attempt of it at that.
As far as the “recruiting system” Yes, Brilliant. Just sign a bunch of people up that think they can get rich by doing nothing more than paying $67 to sign other people up that thing the same way. AWESOME business plan.
🙂 drrrummrolll and red carpets! bugles and a tin band!
it’s entirely possible, that WUKAR gets off to a smart start, but for how long?
this new rotator is not evidence of any ‘real business growth’, it’s only about ‘reinventing’ the scam, to attract fresh ‘greenhorns’. WUKAR is nothing but a serial scam within a scam [dubli], which is rebooted everytime recruitment slows.
and matt trainers men are crowing like they invented sunshine!
Right on queue…
Matt Trainer’s ‘Launch’ video starts off with (yep you guessed it)…an apology!
Apparently they have been ‘hacked’…(but wanted to meet his launch committement so here’s a video anyway!)
How much longer can people be strung along…
With Dubli temporarily reactivated inactive accounts… another month or so?
ha ha,,, HACKED?? The scammers version of “my dog ate my homework” ? Yeah, havnt heard that one before.
Seriously? They are not even creative enough to come up with an original excuse?
HACKED? Bwahahahahahahaha snort….fart….burp…..Now I have seen and heard everything this fraudster can do. Next excuse will be the planning of the wedding, then preparing for the new baby, then what?
In order to stay active as a Dubli Business associate you have to sell at least 1 VIP customer membership a month or pay the $99 out of pocket. If you don’t you eventually become inactive.
Look at the timing here, Dubli sends an email 2 days ago saying congratulations you’ve been reactivated, we’re sorry for our mistakes. 2 days later Team WUKAR announces they’ve been hacked and the rotator is delayed once again.
What comes next will be another reboot in an effort to get people to recruit again.
I made less than $50 on commissions from customer’s purchases. 99% of my income came from recruiting which is WRONG! I couldn’t do it anymore, I knew it wasn’t morally right.
As far as the rotator, Matt Trainer has his sheep making videos using keywords such as, best hotel in New York, Cheapest clothing in UK, Least Expensive Online Electronic Ciggarettes in Maine, etc. etc.
The videos were to be the first link when folks searched for these keywords on Google containing a link to Dubli, if the videos attracted any customers or business associates they would be fed into the rotator and distributed amongst team members.
This concept attracted many business associates to Team Wukar. Pisses me off even writing this. Matt Trainer is a crook and needs to go back to prison.
yuck! does this mean you had to forcefeed yourself all the snacks you prepared for the grand show ? 🙂
what a damp squib that show was! how does matt trainer manage to keep his flock together, inspite of being a piss poor idiot?
this could be a comedy show!
here’s look at the underbelly of dubli and wukar .
a dubli recruit has posted a complaint about his upline WUKAR Team member, trying to prise 400$ from him to ‘win a car’ from dubli. trying to get your money back from dubli? a near impossible feat !
it’s a ‘listed’ company, somebody ‘should’ be looking into them.
Matt Trainers latest launch video:
– No more video creation (task) – So will all those folks who went out and bought VideoMakerFX be grateful now?
– New WAVE system (Basically a video sharing over social networks tool linked back to the Wukar video site) – oh and it’s $49.99/month
– Some deal if you’re in the Founders Club (but still a charge)
– A Wukar Leads System CRM with tracking (again a $19.99/month charge)
Hmmm….can you see where this is going?
Why won’t someone come out and fully explain where they think the money will come from so all these people using all these tools have an end goal?
Is it perhaps that apart from recruit, recruit and more recruiting…the fact is that for every $100 customer spend the Dubli BA will barely earn $1 (Fact confirmed by Dubli support).
Where is the residual income?
Where will Dubli get the money from to pay the extra 4-6% for VIP’s?
The person above summed it up:
Claim your MORALS back people. Don’t let people mess with them.
Do the maths yourself.
Unless the investigation starts YESTERDAY, It will collapse under its own weight well before regulators will have a chance to do anything about it.
Unless they totally re-invent themselves (AGAIN) I cannot see this lasting another 6 months and I am being generous.
seeing this has limed along for at least 2 years…… surprised they can’t just get the guy who always won their bogus ‘reverse auctions’ to purchase product. lmao
Another example of people having been ‘mis-sold’ on joining…
Someone asks: “Team Wukar was the ability to create a team under me, through the accumulations of credits. In listening to Matt’s latest video, he mentioned “one click, one credit” which was not expounded upon but seems to be a departure from the original plan of being able to trade credits for BAs and/or customers. Could someone please let us know how this translates into team building?”
Constant shifting of goalposts, delays, dragging things out…this guy is good! Before people know it, it’ll be Christmas again!
Is there anyway that acn and dubli can join forces?
Someone said in a post above that if u are a dubli BA for 500 dollars, every 100 dollars someones spends all you get is 1$? How is that possible
I think, whoever said that was being VERY generous at 1% commission. Keep in mind too, that that percentage gets watered down as it becomes group volume.
How is it possible? With a stroke of a pen. Yes ACN does it to with an average of 1/4%
They make next to nothing on residuals, Most of the money is from recruiting.
The real question is how is it possible that people fall for that crap when there are companies out there paying 15% -20% of group volume? The argument that they sell things people need and use everyday (services) VS lotions and potions is complete bunk.
A person can sell ANYTHING they believe in and more people per household use “lotions and potions” More and more often than Services. A household spend WAY more on products each month than on services.
What does group volume mean?
So ur saying selling household items is better then selling house services?
I think the best way to make money of dubli is getting non profit organization to come and sign up under u…right?
Group volume is the volume you get paid on that is generated by the sales organization. Personal volume is sales volume that you produce yourself.
If you dont know these things, please take time to study some legitimate companies and their pay plans before getting involved in ANY of them.
The ONLY way to make money in Dubli is by recruiting people. If you want a quick trip to ridicule island, go ahead and put the Dubli NPO program in front of a board of directors for one. ha ha..
I dont know jack shit about this…in this site everyone is talking as if dubli is the worst company ever…while my closest friends talk as if its a life changing company.
How much money you get if u recruit someone?
Had a few non profits on the team under me. They had a ridiculous time gettng their members on board and those that did used it so little the commissions were pennies. It’s a crap third party product nobody wants.
Ask your friends how many affiliates they’ve recruited vs. retail shoppers they have.
You can also look at how you were approached, was it with promises of riches or the merits of Dubli’s e-commerce platform?
Honestly i think they have been giving away those vouchers.. one of his friend’s knows someone that does this and probably promised him so muchstuff and believe it.
So they paid their participation fee, and are now using the vouchers attached to the fee as a marketing tool to recruit new participants.
Who will of course also pay their participation fee, which results in your friends getting paid.
They will then use their bundled vouchers to attract new participants, who will also pay a fee… and your friends will earn residual commissions.
With nothing being marketed or sold to retail customers, what does that sound like to you?
Soulds like scrap? But how much are they getting payed ?
Apparently less than the original compensation plan in this review.
Big recruiters got in last year, made thousands recruiting new suckers and then the comp plan changed to some binary thing.
Nowhere near as attractive so Dubli is in a bit of a rut at the moment (affiliate teams fighting with eachother, top-earners offering further recruitment cash incentives etc.).
Isn’t it worth it just to give. it a try at the 500$ option? Instead of wasting 2500?
Save your money and stay away from being part of the problem.
Why not just WATCH whoever recruited you and see how much money he made vs. how many people he recruited?
Any idea how i can get my 2500 back? Can i do a chargeback on my card seeing as i did not receive the things promised?
Someone needs to stop these people!
I was a part of WUKAR, a team of Dubli. The customer cash back side is totally legit if you shop online. Or it was until January.
Their having a big challenge paying the cash back from shopping now as of Feb 2015.
I feel bad for how people were duped to come into this scam. I was duped as well because we were told it wasn’t like othe MLMs. No recruiting. It’s customer based focused on just cash back from stores you already know and trust.
Well, even during the holidays, the busiest shopping season in the US, there were a lot of people joining but not able to recruit VIP customers.
WHY? because there are other legit deal sites out there that don’t require a $99 annual membership.
Yeah it’s a scam. Yeah it made me a lot of quick money. I’m sorry.
you could try for a chargeback, alleging fraud. you could try contacting the company for a refund, and check their response. if the company does not support your request, you could try complaining to the SEC.
dubli is a listed, pink sheet company, the SEC will take complaints against it seriously.
Their having a big challenge paying the cash back from shopping now as of Feb 2015—john L
i wonder why they have a problem paying shopping cash back? those funds are apparently coming from the vendors they have ‘tie ups’ with for ‘discounts’? this shows that a part of the cash back, is coming from affiliate investments, as has always been suspected.
thus, neither is the cashback portion of dubli legit, and obviously it’s recruitment scam was never legit either. and with recruitment obviously slowing down, dubli may be near death.
Since Matt and Tar’lese are enjoying posting pictures of their new beach front condo on Facebook, no doubt paid for with many Wukar members 2400 dollar fees, I would contact other individuals that feel they have been deceived and organize a class action lawsuit.
If dubli is going bad how come they just had a convention n dubai and india?
There’s been very little mention of Dubli lately from any of the WUKAR/HBL leaders. Looks like they’re all busy pushing their own services and slowly distancing themselves from Dubli.
Tar’lese has daily posts of her Instagram business and is currently in the works for “a new project that is going to help thousands of people properly market their businesses.”
I wonder where they’ll go from here.
“Going bad” is probably exaggerated (I haven’t read all those comments).
It’s a part of the normal strategy for Dubli.
1. Launch a new business idea, “the next big thing on the internet”, something people can believe will be “hot”. It doesn’t need to be a NEW idea, but it will need to look new.
2. Then use some experienced people to spread the rumour that Dubli will be the hottest opportunity in the near future, “the place where you really can make some money if you join early” (many people believe in the “early in” idea).
3. It will look really hot for a couple of months because many believe in the same idea (they try to join early). But when those new opportunity seekers find out that they’re not making any money then Dubli will rapidly become colder again.
4. Offer some “internal income source” to people with a downline, e.g. “Dubli University”, “Dubai Event” or whatever (something the “leaders” can sell to their downline).
5. Repeat from point #1 (“don’t let it get too cold”).
– – – – – – – – – – – –
“The next hot thing” will probably come in April 2015 or August 2015.
What would that matter one way or another? Is that how you evaluate the viability of a business?
FHTM had a convention a few weeks before they got SLAMMED by the FTC. So have many others before them.
What difference does it make how many people are still dumb enough to believe in the company and show up at an event?
That just CONFIRMS the fact they are going down. If you have THAT many uneducated gullible people in an organization, there is NO WAY it can last 🙂
What does having a convention have to do with “going bad”?
And India and Dubai? Sounds like a recruiting effort to me as neither of those are growth markets for the company. And if they are as of late (India in particular), it’s going to be for all the wrong reasons (recruitment).
I could swear they tried India already and failed a couple years ago when they were still the bogus ‘reverse auction’.
of course, in india, dubli is all about recruitment, and if it catches on, it will continue to be all about recruitment. internet shopping is catching on rapidly, but not nearly enough for supporting third party product MLM’s.
some time ago, i called a couple of dubli india leaders, off their phone numbers on facebook. they sold me dubli, as a purely ‘recruitment’ based scheme.
one of them even told me his earnings breakup. the earning from the retail shopping side was a hopeless fraction of the earnings on the recruitment side.
he had no qualms about that, he admitted that the money was in getting people to sign in under yourself.
its disappointing to hear that Matt and Tar’lese will most likely get away with this fraud, of which I’m sure they collected the lions share of commission from the recruitment fees.
There was never a millionaires club, Cayman properties, or rotators lead generator, yet these two frauded up to ten thousand people out of their hard earned cash on these empty promises.
Now dubli and the Trainers will retreat for a while and create a new concept to fraud a new group with, and our authorities, despite hundreds of complaints do nothing, how very sad.
its crazy how something gets hot for couple of weeks then no one is hearing about it or talking about it..just some b.a that payed a lot of money only talk about it.
Soo what are you guys hearing about dubli lately?
Nothing much. Alexa continues to decline and everyone’s gone quiet.
My guess is the recruitment is slowing down and it probably won’t see the year out.
Who is alexa
Alexa.com website statistics.
dubli.com – second largest traffic is from india, after the US.
dublinetwork.com – third largest traffic is from india, quite close to canada which is at number two. US leads at number one.
teamwukar.com – no presence in india. concentrated mostly in the US and canada.
the above suggests that india may be a ‘work in progress’, for the dubli market.
it appears dubli is slowing down, india may be their last hope. if they kick off here, they may survive a bit longer.
dubli india private limited, a subsidiary of dubli, registered itself in india on jan 2nd,2015.
the registration address is :
12th Floor, Tower-C, Building No. 8
DLF Cyber City Phase-II
Gurgaon – 122002
Haryana – INDIA
this is a posh address, in an area favored by many foreign companies for office space.
the directors are named as:
– MUNISH NAGRATH
– MICHAEL BRUDEVOLD HANSEN
this shows that dubli, indeed, has a major india expansion plan. their growth in india, in 2015, could well decide their life span.
a registered company in india, with posh office space, and some real shopping involved, may not attract the attention of authorities.
If you google “Dubli India”, you will find a prelaunch in October 2013 and a launch in April 2014.
But it does actually jump from country to country. It may have launched earlier too.
the dubli launch in april 2014, was focused on recruiting ‘leaders’ who would be ‘founder members’ of dubli, india.
in august 2014, we see a sharp spike in the traffic to dubli.com and dublinetwork.com. we also see that india is one of the top traffic generators for these sites.
this could coincide with rapid recruitment in india, starting august 2014, which has petered out/assumed a slower growth rate from thereon.
All moot points. Their business model, they way it is currently setup is COMPLETELY and utterly unsustainable, PERIOD! End of story!
Look at post #365. It has a partial explanation.
The growth in August 2014 didn’t come from India, it came from the relaunch in USA (e.g. team WUKAR).
if you check team wukars alexa rating, it shows a sharp spike in traffic, from mid september to dec, 2014. [alexa.com/siteinfo/teamwukar.com]
a spike in traffic in august, can be seen both on dubli.com and dublinetwork.com, the traffic graphs are quite similar to each other, but differ from teamwukars traffic graph.
so, the growth in august 2014, could coincide with recruitment in india, after getting the ‘leaders’ on board, following the april, 2014 launch.
full form of the abbreviation WUKAR:
‘Wake Up Kick Ass Repeat’
creative to say the least! 🙂
I asked you to look at post #365 first. Dubli doesn’t operate like a normal MLM company. It has a short growth period related to a prelaunch, launch or relaunch of a “new” idea, “the next big thing on the internet”.
And India had that in late 2013 / early 2014. North America had it in August 2014. It doesn’t grow locally after that short growth period. After the short growth period, people starts to feel dissatisfied and will leave the opportunity. They will jump to other opportunities.
Your theory assumes that Dubli is operating quite differently in India, that it has a more stable business model in that country than it had in North America.
Dubli India may have been slightly “revitalised” in August 2014, but the majority of new participants came from North America.
Teamwukar was probably first established in September 2014, but that doesn’t mean the PEOPLE first joined Dubli in September. Tony Rush joined in August
Teamwukar is an “internal team”. It was created around Dubli members, so the spike in ranking is simply about Dubli members joining Team WUKAR. It isn’t about a stream of new people coming in from the outside.
i thought WUKAR was ‘private team/company’ which acted as a ‘feeder’ for dubli, and made some money on the side, from selling training, leads, etc.
i was not aware that dubli was the ‘feeder’ for team WUKAR.
why would CEO hansen, fall all over matt trainer, if he was the one providing business to trainer, and not the other way around?
if tony rush joined in august, and WUKAR was established in september, then a september spike in WUKAR traffic, is quite explainable as a recruitment rush.
Team wukar was probably a “Plan B”. “When Dubli starts to fail, we will need to offer something different”.
Dubli has been around since 2007, so experienced people know they only have a short time to make a profit. They can recruit people into Dubli while Dubli still is “hot”, but then they will need to offer something different if they wish to keep people interested.
i did. i saw post#365, before posting my reply. you said:
the spike in august may be from india, the spike in mid september may be from WUKAR, and together these two, cause the graph to peak at this point. thereafter the decline sets in, proving your point about people becoming cold again.
The teamwukar.com website was registered on August 13 2014. But it didn’t become active before September. The people signing up in September came primarily from Dubli. They were first introduced to the Dubli opportunity, and then they were introduced to a marketing system “team WUKAR”.
And then they were introduced to a “Plan C”, Home Business Labs’ marketing system. And they have probably been introduced to a “Plan D” ana a “Plan E” too. But that hasn’t prevented many of them from leaving Dubli.
He probably joined Dubli in mid August 2014, joining John Lavenia’s team.
uh, how do You know that people first joined dubli in september, and THEN joined team WUKAR?
this is what WUKAR FAQ says:
understand? if you sign up for dubli, under a WUKAR member, you become a WUKARian.
if you sign up under a ‘non’ WUKAR member, you do not get to be a WUKARian.
so, what comes first?
every WUKARian is a dubli-ite
every dubli-ite is not a WUKARian.
Dubli came first. WUKAR is simply an addition to Dubli.
Dubli is “marketing campaign driven” rather than “recruitment driven”. It will attract people when they believe it offer something “hot”, but you can’t slowly build up an organization there.
When you see a slow growth and “recruited leaders first” program then you’re not looking at Dubli but rather at your own ideas.
Dubli was probably “hot” in India in late 2013. I don’t believe it was “very hot” there in most of 2014, but Dubli India may have become a little “warmed up” when Dubli became “hot” in North America.
uh, yes, everybody knows that.
i was saying WUKARians join dubli through team WUKAR. people don’t join dubli first, and then join team WUKAR.
in india, i understand that a bunch of heavy duty ‘leaders’ got recruited first, from the launch in april, 2014, through august, and then these leaders started an active recruitment drive, leading to a sharp spike in the traffic of dubli.com and dublinetwork.com, and brought india to the second position as a traffic generator, for these sites.
i have some information about how indian MLM leaders work. they spend months, negotiating, renegotiating, hemming and hawing, before getting down to work, with a new company.
but, neither of us has fool proof info, so this is best left here.
Team WUKAR has another event coming up. For $1,000 you can party with Matt Trainer at his condo overlooking the ocean. As well as private dinners and mentoring from the leaders of WUKAR.
It looks like Team WUKAR is shifting its focus elsewhere (off of Dubli) …
(Email received to all founding members)
So basically the WUKAR brand is poisoned, so they’re going to rename and run a scheme within a scheme.
Closed off groups that bleed the system rarely work out. Nobody joins if they know those recruiting them are getting a sweeter deal.
Team Wukar is now Team X factor. Oz, is it possible to write an article about team X factor aka team Wukar?
IF you search Team X factor there is nothing online, if you write a review people will see that first. These guys are crooks and I will follow them and make people aware of them until I die.
Team X Factor? *groan*
Is it an MLM opportunity within itself or just still just a Dubli feeder?
of course they are!
WUKAR will bring up so many negative hits, for anyone searching the net.
so, change the name, and newbies can be recruited into ‘team gagaga X factor’!
lol they did a live hangout recently and Rich Cook, the founder of Team XFactor lmao literally says great business minds have to make decisions fast so we came up with Team Xfactor which has no affiliation with Team Wukar.
The name of that video is “Dubli | Team Xfactor | Best Team in Dubli Prelaunch”.
Xfactor are claiming Dubli is still in prelaunch, who are they kidding?
Is there a comp plan video for Dubli? Didn’t they switch to a binary plan a few months ago?
It sure seems like the former big claims of $20,000 months – $100,000 months are long gone. The only way the leaders are making money is by having events.
This weekend, Home Business Labs (Tony Rush, John Lavenia, and company) is in Phoenix upcharging their members by tens of thousands of dollars to teach them their secrets.
neither. team wukar is going through a metamorphosis.
dubli is failing, wukar cannot subsist on dubli alone.
so, wukar is now rebranded as ‘team x factor’, which matt trainer is calling ‘an agnostic’.
team wukar was a ‘believer’ which followed dubli. team x factor is an ‘agnostic’ which can follow any MLM, and sell its tools and training’s and training events. get?
in order to not cut the umbilical cord completely, rich cook, is going to handle the dubli recruitment, while matt trainer and others will start pursuing other MLM’s with their feeder and training program.
so, wukar is downsizing it’s relation with dubli, and spreading its wings to fly away.
this video tells the whole story:
(Ozedit: Affiliate link removed)
I had to remove that last URL, it’s an affiliate referral link.
Ok, so a goup of people who have NEVER created ANY residual income EVER are going to sell tools and training on how to build network to make said residual?
Yeah, makes sense. Where do I sign up?
Are people REALLY that stupid and think so little of themselves that they buy into what these total losers at wukar have to say?
Matt Trainers apology for Wukar, at 23.00 mark you can hear Matt confess his brilliance for all of us, then at the 31.00 mark he spouts and very unconvincing apology and some crap about wanting unconditional love.
The stories I’m hearing of people losing thousands are coming in regularly.
…these are the guys who simulate oral sex on stage and call it a “team conference” right?
trainers video starts with a heavy duty ‘tourism advertisement’ which ends with ‘welcome to wukar’.
so, is wukar a tourist destination spot? 🙂
OMG what a meaningless fluff piece about – hey i am a convicted ex felon, but please love me with your money!!
what is wukar? what the hell does wukar DO?
if trainer is so bloody ‘fearful and scared’ to share his ‘knowledge’, why doesn’t he just keep it to himself? i mean, who’s asking him to share and blabber!!
These people like to have a selling point whenever things decline and they want to reboot.
Redemption is often a theme used.
David Wood’s another one who does this sort of stuff every time EN slumps.
Recently it was giving up alcohol (and blaming that for the bad decisions), now it’s ninja turtles videos on Facebook…
As far as I can tell, wukar is a group of people that hang out in a private chat room, and get a discount on Matt’s video editing software and a discount to attend his training conferences.
Not entirely sure what that entails, but according to Matt he’s helped billionaires make billions, and was a helicopter pilot, was commercial engineer, owned a real estate company, owned a car dealership, was a computer programmer and created trading software for large banks, owned a hedge fund, became a webmaster for Hollywood celebrities.
None of which can be confirmed except his hedge fund he ran as a front for his Ponzi scheme.
Wukar rises May 23, like a phoenix from the ashes, with a special thousand dollar rate for Wukar members, hurry spots are limited.
UPDATE on “What Tar’Lese Is doing:
Someone called her out on the thread:
Isn’t this classic ‘bait n’ switch’? Which these people are able to repeat and repeat by always dangling the next big thing.
The video Dave posted was the video they played at the Wukar launch party last year in San Diego. I was at that event. Seeing it now makes me even more furious. Crooks.
Here we go again….
So, the ‘Future’ as Matt Trainer sees it – he’s going to show people how to build a million dollar business within 90 days!!
Going to build his own re-targeting company and ‘inviting’ people to become members to get access to some of his tools.
So more monthly outgoings for the poor un-educated. (They really should read The Emperors Clothes fable)
Not forgetting Tony Rush, who we hear is ‘launching’ his new ‘Pro’ site…
Laughable, when you consider their Dubli people were all sold on ‘not having to do anything other than a daily task’…
Do your own research people and if it seems too good to be true, it most definately is!
heres a Matt’s Bio from his new site
Matt is the marketing master and renaissance man who founded The Automati. He is a widely regarded as one of the smartest marketers on the planet. He teaches all his wealth creation secrets to Automati members.
I believe he forgot to mention Narcissist
check it out for your self – theautomati.com
That Matt Trainer video is the biggest joke ever. Any quality person looking for a real business online will immediately click the “X” button.
Heck, even the “lottery mentality” people looking for something for nothing will go buy lottery tickets instead of participating in that nonsense.
As for Tony Rush, he and John Lavenia are attempting to bring back the Unified Wealth Solutions model they ran back in 2008 when they got Liberty League members to subscribe to their websites for $40/mth.
Here’s the real question to ask:
Is there ANYONE … even just ONE person … who’s benefitted from Matt Trainer, Tony Rush, Wukar, Dubli, Home Business Labs, etc.
Meaning they’ve gone from zero to even $5,000 per month within the last six months.
Answer … NO! [Sigh!]
Yes. Michael Hansen 😉
Looks like Tony Rush, Mike Dillard and possibly HBL (at least Rush is using a funnel page through them) are testing the waters of selling to preppers and dropped, or at least aren’t promoting, Dubli.
Hot off the press from Tony Rush
Some guy commented ‘Sales or recruiting’ (which has now been deleted)
People still paying $500/month to be in his co-op group and for what, 20 or so new Dubli customers?
When will they wake up and realise they aren’t getting a return on their investment!
That $10.4 M number is ridiculous.
The only money being made is by Tony, Kristian, John, Randy and Bobby collecting $97/mth payments for its suckers to buy their marketing system and then then the poor souls paying hundreds of dollars for traffic to gain customers which is the dumbest ROI ever if you stop to do the math.
The important thing to remember is no one (not one) has followed those guys and created an income capable of walking away from their jobs since they joined last August.
Some track record.
Eye-opening update from Team WUKAR Founder Matt Trainer on the admitted train wreck of Dubli (“Liars”), Wukar and Home Business Labs (“a-holes”) … youtu.be/TBMkE9dtTYI
well, quite a ‘hammy’ performance by matt trainer! if things dont work out for him, he is good for bollywood 🙂
a little while back when WUKAR announced that they would be joining other MLM besides dubli, it was clear that the WUKAR/dubli partnership was over. this is because dubli was failing and WUKAR was failing and the time for ‘excuses’ was nigh.
it seems WUKAR has hit rock bottom, and investors are threatening matt trainer with a class action suit.
time to reboot!
so, matt trainer sets up a hamfest full of cuss words and some fist shaking and starts afresh. after a long explanation about why the name TEAM WUKAR does not suit his ‘mission’ anymore he announced a change to a fresh name.
aaaaand the new name is WUKAR !
yeah, if you delete ‘team’ from ‘team wukar’ everything changes! so, WUKAR will have everything Except ‘Team’ Spirit? that will work well in MLM.
bottom line : people who lost money to matt trainer may kindly cussword off, and the rest can continue paying in for his ‘education system’ which is going to challenge google and yahoo [um, what’s the connection?]
children, WUKAR failed/crashed/burnedout and now matt trainer wants to reboot. pay him, pay him.
People actually listen to potty mouth morons like that?
So is he admitting that MLM’s are shit?
How can people look up to this guy?!
Matt Trainer is like the elementary school bully all grown up.
He actually makes Tony Rush seem like a nice guy.
But both churn and burn. Churn and burn.
How many more times are people going to follow these crooks?
The bottom feeders always stick together.
all these clowns are. all they have is intimidation to get their marks.
Bullying the bullies by exposing their scams…love it!
Home Business Labs has moved on to selling beachbody products. Tony Rush’s favorite line, “right place, right time” is echoed in all of their live webinars so far.
I feel bad for the sheep that continue to follow Tony Rush and his band of crooks.
Regardless of all of this drama , we used and still use the Dubli Shopping Portal. We did get over $600 cashback in the last year.
With or with out the biz opp attached, that is money we would not have gotten with our the shopping portal.
We also loved finding new places to shop to get the best prices plus cashback.
But… you’re still an affiliate, right?
How much would you have gotten with a regular Cashback card and how Much did that cost vs. Dubli?
$50/mo = lollerz
The majority of this info is incorrect or outdated.. The business packages listed are not correct, the compensation plan is not correct, so on and so forth. Monthly voucher purchase is no longer required
No comp plan on the Dubli website (public), so…..
Did any of you see the article on Michael Hansen that was just published on the business from home blog. That Dustin Mitchell guy that accused DubLi and Hansen of stock manipulation, fraud, and operating a ponzi scheme a couple years ago might have had some truth to it.
Go to the businessfromhome.org blog, Hansen has done the same thing twice before to manipulate stock prices and launder money.
This dude is bad news. If you’re looking for an MLM opportunity I definitely wouldn’t look at DubLi.
Oh and I just found this article on the the Obtainer.
Took a long time but it looks that Dubli is collapsing very soon.
Customers have not been able to get there Cashback paid since over 2 month now… looks like there is no money left. Unbelievable for how long this scam has been going.
Hello everyone !
I am writing from Italy (Sicily).
These days I have had contacts with the staff of DUBLI who offered me this “good job” with new innovations even offline credit card mastercard circuit that with the use is a cash back in all physical stores.
I read your doubts in the activity of DUBLI and that this would be a well-designed SCAM activity but maybe not yet fully exploded.
My question, however, is this: How come this activity is still going on and nobody stops it as a proven SCAM. The people who contacted me believe in your good business.
What do you think, I should actually reject this job offer?
Thanks to Who will answer why here in Italy there is no news fresh this company but slo Youtube video that the activity.
Hello to all….
Dubli is the usual story of hopping from one country to the next to survive.
Alexa suggests it’s currently being propped up by Japan. After that who knows.
I only keep lose tabs on Dubli, usually by way of annual reports detailing huge losses each year.
When you write “Do I keep losing cards on Dubli” does it mean that affiliated people do not renew their annual package contracts?
So you are saying that participating in scams is considered a job in Sicily? That’s scary.
No, I only requested more information about the activity..
I couldn’t find any reference to this so not sure what you mean (auto-translate error?).
OK .. maybe it was like you say a translator error ..
But I ask you:
1. When you mentioned Alexa, who is Alexa? I do not know her.
2. Then I ask you by reading all the comments on this page, how does the OMINTO Company to issue a rechargeable credit card connected to the MASTERCARD Circuit which can also be used offline with the possibility of cashback?
Is the MASTERCARD Company not aware of the situation in DUBLI and that it could also damage its image?
The same card can in fact be used all over the world, so also in the Nations that have already had to deal with this Florida company.
I just wanted to understand better what you think ….
Alexa is a website, they estimate traffic to other websites and rank them as such.
Not sure about the Mastercard thing, or how it relates to the viability of Dubli’s business model.
The cashback side of Dubli is legitimate but not really competitive, otherwise it’d have taken off by now.
The problem is as an MLM company it’s only viable as a pyramid scheme. Hence the jumping from one country to the next and not building a long-term sustainable business in any of them.
Ok …. thanks again for the answer.
I will try this business despite all the information received, then in a while I’ll write to you and let you know how this activity goes and if the people involved will have received a cashkack benefit over time.
Certainly to enter I will have to pay 580.00 EURO, but also for any activity a minimum must be invested.
Thanks again and … good work to you.
See you soon and hopefully ..
Good luck. From memory Dubli already had a crack in Italy a few years back.
Seems there’s only Asia left to recruit in now.
It is very easy to hire a company to put your logo on a prepaid card. Costs less than 1000 Euros to setup. They are NOT the same as credit card.
OK .. Oz …
Meanwhile, thank you and I will inform you in the future ..
@Antonio, you were offered a job where you have to pay $580 Euro?
Smell something fishy there?
OK .. Kasey also thanks to you for the clarification.
But I want to say that I’m not so much 1000 Euro but I say because the MASTERCARD before issuing a possible card with a logo of a company does not carry out a minimum assessment.
There is no security office in the MASTERCARD headquarters or something that filters affiliation requests and can then accept the application or not.
I insist on this subject because we assume that any person in the future uses the Dubli Mastercard and is in a country where the American company has already been present in a negative way, no merchant can refuse payment because he does not know all the dynamics of DUBLI.
It is therefore ????
This is why it is essential to filter affiliation requests.
Hello and sorry for the long reasoning … Greetings.
You are thinking “If MasterCard let them join they must be a reputable business”. That is an ASSUMPTION, as you are ASSUMING Mastercard conducts a thorough review of the business before allowing them to use the logo.
But the Mastercard logo merely identifies the “network” of ATMs and merchants associated with the logo the card has access to.
As long as Dubli does not cheat Mastercard, Mastercard does not care about Dubli’s “other problems”.
Let’s think about this for a moment. Let’s say “Juan” has a bad reputation in town. He drinks and boasts links with the mafiosos and narcos and anyone who crosses him will be sorry. But he got an inheritance from Tio Ricardo and want to open an account in the local bank. Can and should the local bank turn him away because Juan is a nasty guy?
Of course not.
So why do you expect Mastercard will do the same to Dubli, i.e. judge a business based on its reputation?
The stock prices of DubLi / Ominto speak a clear language:
Anyone who invests in these unsuccessful sheds will only finance the luxurious life of the bosses at the top of the pyramid.
Hi YO …
Yes … I was offered a job where you have to pay € 580.00.
The fact is that someone says, but if they offer you a job, why pay, right?
I think that if the work is a direct employee of a company, company or other work maybe even in the government, then you do not have to pay but if the work is self-employed then you must make an investment and as if a person wants to open a bar, a pizzeria a restaurant or something else, then you have to put your capital so you have to buy equipment, pay rent, bills, etc. etc..
Let’s say that in DUBLI you have to put your own capital, your capital and then resell the various packages of the business type, where you should return the amount spent more than the revenue.
I do not know if I sno explained?
OK .. Kasey .. clear enough your reasoning.
I approve it .. And according to you, the cheat of DUBLI towards the Company could be finalized MASTERCARD?
Thank you Melanie for your precious comments …
But what exactly is a scheme with pyramidal activity and therefore what is a Multilevel Marketing (MLM) system?
This system exists when a company, which produces consumer goods (eg cosmetics, household items, books, etc.) or offers services (financial products, telephony contracts, etc.), searches for only to let them buy such products or services, but also to make them self-employed vendors of the company’s products.
The new retailers, in turn, are encouraged to look for other consumers and sellers, as they earn not only on sales directly made, but also on sales made by their “recruited”.
For the information material and the products delivered by the company, the new appointee must pay an “access fee” to the system. The relationship of collaboration can be of continuative or occasional nature, it can last several years and to obtain some earnings it requires a commitment often initially underestimated, or it can last so little that the initial investment does not agree.
So this says to us in Italy the new law (2005).Before nothing was expected.
(Ozedit: Snip, see below.)
Dubi neither produces goods or sells them. They only provide access to third-party discounts.
The MLM side of the business incorporates this but focuses primarily on affiliates paying a fee and recruiting others who do the same.
Hence the lack of sustainable business, years of operating losses and the need to migrate from market to market when recruitment dies.
Can you write that in Italian or whatever your native language is? The meaning is not clear in your sentence.
Perhaps, start here:
Kasey..scrivo in italiano, ti chiedo:
Secondo Te, come la DUBLI può ingannare o truffare la Società della Mastercard ?
Hai qualche idea in merito ?
Antonio, is that your last name of first name?
Is that question important? I am not DUBLI. I cannot answer for them.
Questa domanda è importante? Io non sono DUBLI. Non posso rispondere per questo.
Tell me.. Dickie d.
Thank you for your answer..
Hi Oz …!
Yesterday I had my first meeting, at my request, with the staff of DUBLI ITALIA, to make me describe the activity of the American Society.
I asked the DUBLI person, if the activity is regular and is not a pyramidal sale.
Your answer was obviously NO. He also added, that so far since he entered in DUBLI (June 2016) neither he nor his collaborators and customers have never had problems of any kind and that have until now received always, according to the free and paid registration methods, always the cash back.
However, I have reserved the entrance to this activity waiting to know from others (even Authorities) if the business does not hide something shady. We’ll see.
If you ask people in a pyramid scheme about it they’re going to tell you it’s rosy.
If you want to do some real due-diligence ask the person trying to recruit you how much they make off legitimate retail shoppers versus recruiting affiliates such as yourself.
I will ask Him and in the meantime I have requested other news also from the Competition Authority and the Market, hereinafter the link: agcm.it