Bidify affiliates going on “recruitment strike”?
Immediately after the Zeek Rewards Ponzi collapse, Bidify pulled their compensation plan offline with the mindset that their plan as it was then would also most likely be seen as a Ponzi scheme by US authorities.
Ditching the Ponzi points style compensation they had in favour of a retail sale of bids style plan, Bidify pushed ahead into unchartered territory:
Could a penny auction survive attached to a MLM style compensation plan that wasn’t just a blatant Ponzi coverup?
So far the answer appears to be yes, with Bidify chugging along and seemingly having survived the Zeek Rewards Ponzi apocalypse. With a multitude of MLM penny auctions sitting in continously extended prelaunch phases (whilst paying out recruitment commissions to their members), how Bidify will fare in 2013 with some serious competition though remains to be seen.
In the meantime, one particular development within the Bidify affiliate sphere recently caught my eye.
Apparently fed up with Bidify only offering affiliates the Towah payment processor to withdraw their earnings out of, eight days ago one Bidify affiliate called on fellow affiliates to join them on a “recruitment strike”.
The reason behind the strike appears to be ongoing problems between Bidify’s affiliates and the Towah payment processor.
Blaming the payment problems on “draconian regulations”, the affiliate claims that on a Bidify conference call Chief Creative Officer, Frode Jorgensen (photo right), acknowledged that
all payments were easy to make except for U.S. customers (Bidify affiliates)…it is harder to get a payment to someone in the U.S.
Yet despite these ongoing problems, to date Bidify has failed to set up an alternative payment processor for its US based affiliates.
Seemingly rallying against Jorgensen in particular, on October 15th the affiliate called on him to ‘implement Payza at least to help the people in the U.S. get paid‘.
Not having received a solution to the problem a week later, on October 20th the affiliate announced a “recruitment strike”, calling on other affiliates to join in:
I am not going to recruit anyone into Bidify until Frode puts Payza and Solid Trust Pay into place as payout options that can compete with Towah.
Because it is so hard to get money out using Towah, it is advantageous for Bidify to keep Towah as their only payout option.
I ask all of you to go on strike with me and not recruit anyone until Bidify puts Payza and Solid Trust Pay into place as both payment and payout options.
Remember, there are hundreds upon hundreds of affiliates who are having problems getting their money out of Bidify.
Please join me.
One week later,
I can not thank you enough for the outpouring of Bidify member support for the suggestion I made above.
GO ON STRIKE AND NOT RECRUIT ANYONE UNTIL FRODE DOES WHAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO.
Frode will feel the effect of the lack of recruiting and will put Payza or Solid Trust Pay into place as payment processors for Bidify affiliates who want to cash out using these legal payment methods.
Remember, it may be the only way we can force him to do something that should have been done long time ago.
Come on Frode, put Payza and Solid Trust Pay in place as payment processors that we can use to both make payment and also to receive payouts from Bidify.
Curiously, despite the apparent shift in focus to customer acquisition and retail purchasing of bids, Bidify’s affiliates appear to be of the mindset that in order to have their demands met by the company, that striking on the recruitment of new affiliates is the most effective way to get their message across.
Despite the changes made to Bidify’s compensation plan, could this indicate a resilience in the affiliate base and business to shift away from a focus on affiliate recruitment rather than customers and Bidify’s Bidsson penny auction?
One would think that if retail customers and their bid purchases were indeed the lifeblood of the company, surely refusing to process customer bid purchases and find new customers for Bidsson would have a far greater impact and attract Bidify management’s attention than refusing to recruit new affiliates.
As per the actions of some of Bidify’s affiliates however, this doesn’t appear to be so.
Whether or not the Bidify recruitment strike gains enough traction to force company management to implement more workable payment solutions to the company’s US based affiliates remains to be seen, but it certainly begs the question as to why thus far no action has been taken.
If things aren’t working out between Towah and Bidify’s US based affiliates, obviously an alternative solution needs to be found. Why none has been found even months after Bidify launched however remains unknown.
Possible fearing retaliation against Bidify for airing their grievances with Towah publicly and stopping their recruitment of new affiliates, “HerculesUnchained” of the MoneyMakerGroup forum urges those wishing to participate to
contact (him) by private message only so you do not reveal on this forum that you are joining the strike against Frode by not recruiting.
QUESTION: Is there any material difference between a company making slow and/or non payments to all its’ members and the same company not paying its’ US members thus making itself appear solvent ??
Maybe it’s just cynicism born of a long term interest in the world of pseudo MLMs, but, to me, the Bidify situation appears to be nothing more than a variation on the HYIP ponzi technique of employing selective payouts to extend the lifespan of a failing money game.
If I read the entry correctly, Bidify is not refusing to pay, but rather, only paying through Towah instead of the more widely accepted payment processors like STP / Payza.
Given that Zeek had shown us that one needs to keep MILLIONS of dollars at each processor as hedge against chargebacks, I can see why they are reluctant to use multiple payment processors.
However, they should have considered the difficulty in paying US affiliates when they setup their US operations (including legally registering corp in US).
Only goes to prove that this venture is not as well-thought-out as it seem to the starters.
Which is why I used the descriptive “material difference”
Never mind the “reason” given, the end result is there are a large number of U.S. members not receiving money and consequently more money remains in the pool to make it appear as if Bidify is solvent.
Selective payments, payment processor difficulties, compliance issues, ID verification problems, the cheque is in the mail, it makes no material difference
Bidify had appr. 2 months as a pyramid/Ponzi hybrid, paying commissions for recruitment of additional “investors” rather than from a “pool”. Then it had 4 months as a Ponzi/pyramid hybrid, with reinvesting of money as a major part of the business model.
So it was already heavily under-balanced when the 2 new compensation plans were introduced in August 2012.
Bidify is in a situation where it will have to distribute losses to the investors. It looks like they’re preferring to pay the top earners on the expense of the late-joiners. “paying friends on the expense of strangers”.
A “recruitment strike” will only have some meaning if people previously recruited on a regular basis. Most participants in Bidify seems to have been “striking” for the last two months already? 🙂
I personally can’t see why you’d limit yourself to just Towah, especially given the problems US members appear to be having with it.
All I can think of is there might be some exclusivity agreement Bidfy signed when they partnered up. Not that that makes much sense…
From a Bidify affiliate today (29/10/2012):
And another affiliate on Towah problems:
It wouldn’t make any sense IF we were talking about a real MLM business.
On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if we were instead talking about a HYIP disguised as a MLM.
For little or no additional expense, the people behind Bidify stand to make money for every day Bidify remains functioning at any level.
The hosting is paid up, the webpage is costing nothing extra to keep online, the software is on auto pilot.
In fact, economies of scale are at work and the startup costs are being amortised with each new “deposit”
Any reasonably tech savvy teenager could be running the whole shooting match from his/her bedroom.
A quick perusal of the “usual suspect” HYIP ponzi forums reveals Bidify still maintains a “paying” status, even though payments to its’ largest group of member in the U.S.A. have slowed to a crawl.
Bidify is probably in “controlled shutdown modus”, only keeping it alive.
Towah is a network marketing company in itself. You can either be recruited by a merchant member or by an ordinary member.
It has eWallets for transactions between members, e.g. money IN/OUT between a merchant member (network marketing company) and ordinary members (e.g. affiliates of the NWM company), FROM and TO “internal Towah accounts” = no need to move any money when it’s about internal transactions.
The normal method for payouts are by loading the Towah MasterCard debit card from the Towah Club account, something like this:
Bidify’s eWallet –> member’s eWallet (internal transaction)
member’s eWallet –> loading the debit card –> payout
I found something about some payment issues from July 18th 2012:
To see the status of bidify/bidsson, go to alexa.com and look up bidify.com and bidsson.com . Then look at the “Reach” graphs for both web sites.
A sharp drop in late August (when the similar pyramid/Ponzi scheme Zeekrewards was shut down) followed by a gradual decline, clearly shows that the bidify/bidsson pyramid scheme is collapsing.
The collapse of the scheme is of course the reason why members are not being paid; When new members are not joining the pyramid, there will of course not be money for the older members, especially when the scheme operators feel the need to secure the money for themselves.
Knowing that the real boss behind Bidify is Frode Jørgensen, recruiter and operator of several pyramid and Ponzi schemes (T5PC, PIPS, WGI, PlexPay, AmityFunds, Juugo), this comes as no great surprise.
Fraudy’s main claim to infamy comes from his carreer as founder and CEO of the large Ponzi/pyramid scheme PlexPay, which was raided and shut down by Norwegian police in 2005. Eventually, after appeals, the Norwegian Supreme Court sentenced him to 2 1/2 years prison in 2009, for operating an illegal pyramid scheme.
Additionally, Fraudy and PlexPay were subject to Cease and Desist Orders from Kansas and Alabama, and a 50 000 USD fine (unpaid) from Kansas.
With this CV, it was not difficult to see that Bidify was a pyramid/Ponzi scheme, with the Bidsson penny auctions functioning as the ‘legitimacy disguise’.
Regarding the payment processor Towah, it should be noted that the boss (excecutive director, founder and CEO) of Towah is also a well-known member of the Norwegian pyramid scheme community. He is mainly known for having been one of the five so-called ‘World Leaders’ (a sort of super-member) in the very large pyramid scheme World Games Incorporated (WGI), which was later re-named to Aspiritus and then collapsed.
Frode Jørgensen was actively marketing this pyramid.
Petterøe was one of the most active spokesmen for WGI around 2002 – 2005, and he later started a WGI clone called ‘Nova Lusus’, which collapsed fairly quickly.
Around the same time he started Towah, which has functioned as payment processor for several pyramid and Ponzi schemes of Scandinavian origin, e.g. Enigro/Unaico and JuuGo (operated by Frode Jørgensen & Co).
So, with Towah boss Petterøe being an experienced pyramidster and aquantance of Frode J, Petterøe of course knows the workings of pyramid and Ponzi schemes.
He of course also knows that when a pyramid or Ponzi is in the decay/collapse phase, it is important to obstruct and delay payouts to the members, using various excuses, thus preserving the remaining money for the scheme owners’ bank accounts.
Therefore, Frode Jørgensen will retain Towah as the payment processor for Bidify, and not add any (possibly more legitimate) other payment processors, because this can lead to more money flowing out of the hands of Frode Jørgensen and his accomplices.
Some gift card auctions posted today on Bidsson:
Is this a joke?
I am the one who started this thread because of the words I used on the Money Maker Group forum. Please read everything below as it will all set the record straight:
No one but me is on strike. I was only trying to get Frode’s attention so he would feel pressured to add Payza and Solid Trust Pay as payout options.
No one has ever contacted me by private message or by email or posted a message on this forum (MoneyMakerGroup) that they were on strike and that they were not recruiting anymore. So there is nostrike going on.
In fact, I call off the strike because I want Bidify to succeed. So no one go on strike please. But I do call upon you to contact Frode via Bidify support and ask him to put Payza and Solid Trust Pay as payment options. I think we all would like that.
I call upon the admin of Behind MLM dot com to remove the thread he started using what I said on this forum. You should have contacted me first to check out what I meant when I said to everyone that I could not thank them enough for the outpouring of Bidify member support concerning my suggestion that everyone go on strike.
What I meant by that statement IS NOT THAT MEMBERS HAD CONTACTED ME AND SAID THEY WERE GOING ON STRIKE but rather that I BELIEVE THAT EVERYONE FEELS THE SAME WAY I DO. I was only trying to reinforce my point by phrasing it in the way I did but it was not exactly and technically truthful in the exact words I used. So I ask you all to forgive me for using the exact words I did which the admin of Behind MLM used about Bidify in this thread.
So I ask the Admin of Behind MLM dot com to remove the above thread because no one has gone on strike except me. No one technically showed their support for the strike. I was only assuming that everyone felt the same way I
did and thus used the words I did. But they were technically not truthful and again.
I ask forgiveness from Frode and anyone who may have been hurt by what I said and by what has come of these words and how the admin of Behind MLM has taken them and run with them without contacting me first and checking out exactly what took place before he posted the thread built on what I said.
If he had done that he would have gotten the truth about exactly what has happened and he would have found out that no strike has taken place.
PLEASE DISREGARD THESE WORDS BELOW THAT I WROTE:
Here is what I should have said instead of using these exact words above:
I did not really mean to go on strike in my last post. We need to keep recruiting and keep Bidify healthy. But at the same time I know you wish that Bidify would add the payment processors Payza and Solid Trust Pay just as I want them added.
So instead of going on strike please contact Frode via online Bidify support and ask him politely to install Payza and Solid Trust Pay as payment processors so we have more options for payouts. Thanks for understanding.
I am not posting this because I have been threatened by the admin of Bidify because no one knows who I am. I am only posting this to make right a wrong that has developed by what I said and how it was taken and used wrongly.
What you wrote is there for everyone to see, and there is no mistaking it for you calling on a strike and then thanking your fellow Bidify affiliates for joining you:
As such, your redactions and calls for people to simply “disregard” what you wrote are somewhat amusing. Either you were lying when you made the original comments, or you’re lying today.
Whichever the case I guess is ultimately irrelevant, point being Bidify affiliate’s appear to be fed up with Towah and Bidify’s lack of inaction in implementing alternative payment processors.
Moral of the story? Don’t run around the internet telling porky pies… and then more porky pies to cover up your original porky pies.
Maybe he’s just… wishy-washy?
Something is missing here, not only those in USA can’t withdraw from Towah, my entire downline from all around the world can’t use it.
I can’t use it, my top leaders can’t use it and on this issue the replies from Frode and support are now ZERO.
I believe they just want to shut it down OR make us all leave so they won’t have to pay the Bidsson Bonus nor Founder Bonus that they promised. If they stop paying that they can either pocket the profits or improve the payplan to pay that out on the bonus pools.
The other questions, is why the hell are they using the Club Asteria payment processor?
That payment processor (Towah) is even banned in many countries around the world and as we have seen so far, it doesn’t work for everyone, just for the lucky few that receive their debit card.
€ 0.08 01/11/2012 COMM Bidsson Bonus. it’s no joke
It ain’t your money UNTIL it’s in your wallet (or bank account) 🙂 Remember that.
Obviously, Mr. HerculesUnchained has received an e-mail or call from Frode Jørgensen, threatening to confiscate all his assets in Bidify, unless he promptly withdraws his statements about a ‘recruitment strike’ and all other negative comments about Bidify, and apologises most humbly.
Such confiscations are very common against “disloyal” pyramid/Ponzi members, especially when the pyramid/Ponzi scheme is in the decay/collapse phase; Cash payouts from the scheme have to be prevented, and an illusion of ‘all is well’ has to be maintained.
The situation is somewhat reminiscent of the Moscow Trials in the late 1930’s: When Stalin’s opponents (usually his former supporters) had been severely tortured and threatened that their family would be executed or sent to the GuLag’s in Siberia, they would confess to all accusations, no matter how absurd. They would also testify that their confession were completely voluntary.
However, Mr. HerculesUnchained should not worry about his Bidify ‘investments’ at all:
No matter what he does, his money is lost, as it has already been used to pay out pyramid/Ponzi ‘profits’, or to fill the hungry ‘black’ bank accounts of Frode Jørgensen & Co in offshore money laundering havens.
HerculesUnchained may get some promises that he will be paid “very soon”. But it should be remembered that “very soon” in pyramid/Ponzi newspeak means ‘never’ in conventional English.
The main problem is that Frode tried to turn a really good rev share penny auction/mlm program into a traditional MLM program…
The End of Zeek caused all the problems… Bidify was doing a REAL profit share from REAL profits from the Penny Auctions.
You mean a Ponzi scheme.
Actually Zeek Rewards being a Ponzi scheme caused all the problems.
Except that those auction profits seemingly appear to by and large have been coming from members, ie. a Ponzi scheme.
“Confidence is high that everyone will get paid before Christmas”.
– Gregory James Kennedy, WGI (2005).
Bidify was doing a VIRTUAL profit share from VIRTUAL profits, just like Zeek did. Whether the bids were used or not does not make the profit become more “real”. REAL profit will require REAL money coming in from external sources.
Bidify was able to pay money OUT as long as enough investors paid enough money IN to cover the payouts. Zeek’s collapse made it difficult for all the other MLM penny auctions to recruit new investors. The supply of fresh money coming IN dried out rather quickly.
No money coming IN from new investors –> no money being paid OUT to the old ones, other than some small amounts paid from membership fees.
Playing Devil’s advocate here:
Todd illustrates a significant point. He is an inveterate ponzi/pyramid scheme player and dabbles in running them himself. He once claimed to be some sort of top recruiter in Bidify back when it was more or less a Zeek clone and expressed pride in that achievement. But then that all changed.
After the “week of three comp plans” Bidify was no longer what Todd would call a “REAL” profit share program (ponzi) but rather took on the trappings of a real network marketing company. The problem is the Todd Hirsch’s of the world didn’t sign up for that sort of thing.
They don’t want to make real commissions off of real sales to real customers, that’s a little too much like.,…work. One of Bidify’s problems is their affiliate base was made up of people like Todd.
I don’t think we can conclude, based only on the immanent failure of Bidify that legitimate MLM penny auctions can not work. I’m not optimistic for their prospects but Bidify came to the table with unclean hands. By the way the same notion would have applied to Zeek had they survived to rejigger their comp plan and launched whatever the hell “ZeeBates” was supposed to be.
IF Bidify had launched with a clean comp plan that clearly showed to the ponzi people “this isn’t the program you’re looking for” and if instead of being headed up by a veteran pyramid schemer it was instead run by legitimate marketers perhaps things could have been different.
There would never have been as much prelaunch buzz and it would have been difficult to beat the “chicken and egg problem.” You need to auction high end items to attract bidders but you need enough bidders to avoid losing money on high end items (assuming they don’t use shill bids).
In a post-Zeek world I think you’d need to be an idiot to try to launch a non ponzi penny auction/MLM program. Look at the failure rate for non MLM penney auctions and a fair game of craps is a safer bet. But I don’t think that Zeek and Bidify are conclusive proof that the concept can not work. But it is a strong indicator that some network marketers are far more enthusiastic about joining ponzi schemes than ponzi players are about participating in straight MLMs.
Wondering if the so called auction car winner was all “FAKED” or “REAL”?
As mentioned on the Bidsson site:
Is the Bidsson site “SECURE”?
I am in no way internet savy but it seems that when you go to sign up on Bidsson that there is not an HTTPS but rather an HTTP.
Does anyone know if the site is actually secure since they do ask one to input personal info?
Login is also plaintext. They would not pass a PCI audit. Anyone logging into Bidsson in any public area where someone is sniffing the network will have their user name, password, and all transactions viewable.
Thanks this is what I thought! Scarey when you really think hard about it.
It appears the Bidify site also does not have a secure sign up.
They are supposed to re launch on the 4th at some point.
I think bidify/bidsson has a lot of work ahead of them if they want to prove they are not a ponzie scheme. Although i think it will be next to impossoble to a complish.
I need help. I am trying to dispute my bidify charge with citibank and they are saying they deliver services. But I don’t know what to do.
I said they change their compensation system, when I joined they promise me certain things but after I joined they change their entire system. I don’t know what to do
I want to find the best way to dispute SKYFRIPAY COM