Joining Avant requires selling products or recruiting?
The essential idea is that the mark, Mr. X, makes only one payment.
To start earning, Mr. X has to recruit others like him who will also make one payment each.
Mr. X gets paid out of receipts from those new recruits. They then go on to recruit others.
As each new recruit makes a payment, Mr. X gets a cut. He is thus promised exponential benefits as the “business” expands.
-Wikipedia’s definition of a successful pyramid scheme model
One of the fine lines that a lot of MLM companies struggle to walk on is the balance between retail selling and recruiting.
Naturally in order for the business to grow new members, associates or distributors must be recruited but in order to sustain this growth there also needs to be strong sales.
These sales need to be independent of product purchases from within the company’s member base.
Failure to ensure this usually results in the eventual collapse of the business, that is if the authorities don’t catch up with the company first.
This should be common knowledge to anyone running a multi-level marketing company.
Let alone somebody who’s been in the industry for nearly a decade.
Listening in on a recent Avant back office call I was therefore quite surprised at the level of blatant recruitment pushing going on.
The following call is part of the automated recruitment system made available to Avant members to assist them in recruiting new business associates to the company.
Automated systems are all the rage these days and the idea is that you simply get people onto these calls and they get all the information they need.
This replaces the effort you’d otherwise put into each and every new prospect that comes your way when you’re explaining the company to them.
Avant is by no means unique in this aspect but a listen in of their current back office call certainly raised some concerns.
The following is taken directly from the recording itself, all I’ve done is edit out some of the testimonial fluff between the various segments.
The first part of the call is about Avant’s leadership bonus. This is a direct monetary reward for recruiting people to Avant.
Under the Wikipedia definition of a pyramid scheme model, the requirement to purchase Elevate (Avant’s $1495 personal development course) can be seen as the ‘required payment‘.
The call then goes into the ‘residual override compensation program’.
This program rewards people with a monetary payment if they recruit 5 people who purchase Elevate.
If those recruited 5 people recruit another 5 people who purchase Elevate, you get paid again.
This payment goes 4 levels deep and all that’s required is the recruitment of Avant associates and a once off purchase of Elevate.
Brent Payne then goes on to urge listeners to ‘share this opportunity with as many people as you can’ and to ‘talk to everyone you come into contact with‘.
Then comes the emotional guilt trip;
if you care about others…I feel you have a responsibility to show them this life changing opportunity.
Following this Payne goes for blunt and actually sets a task for listeners to go out and recruit five people into Avant and purchase Elevate ‘and help them duplicate your efforts‘.
No longer is recruiting optional or a reward for those willing, instead it’s a direct order from the CEO himself.
Payne then closes by stating that you don’t even have to understand the Avant’s compensation plan to make money.
All you have to do is go out and recruit five people to Avant and get them to purchase Elevate.
Then help them duplicate your efforts, help the members they recruit duplicate their efforts and so on and so forth.
See where this going?
After all the controversy that surrounded the marketing efforts of Liberty League when it was in its prime its massively disappointing to see Avant being marketed this way.
Last night Avant came out of prelaunch and is now fully operational.
Hopefully there’s a change in how the Avant business opportunity is currently being marketed, otherwise I fail to see how the business will be sustainable in the long term.
Whether the hard emphasis on new member duplication was just a prelaunch phase or how Avant will be long term marketed remains to be seen.
It’s definitely all about recruiting.
Avant tries to plug directly into potential distributors’ hearts by playing the Lets-Save-Earth card. The info and links to Four Years Go work at putting fear into people’s minds that if they don’t do something now they will lose out.
It makes you feel, and that makes you want to do something. This, incidently, is how Scientology recruit new members by tapping into a personally emotional issue and then convincing the candidate that they need ‘auditing’ to fix their psychological issues.
As a psychologist, I generally wait for people to approach me for help.
While there are a couple of moving promos on the Avant site that make you think about global issues and how every individual can make a difference, it just seems like they are disguising their real cause, which is one that really only donates 1% of profits toward changing human habits. The other 99% goes to the pocket of the founder, no doubt.
Here’s an interesting quote from Avant:
“As far as we know, no-one who has seen this opportunity has been able to walk away and not get involved…”
Well, I’ve walked away without getting involved. Should we tell them they can’t say that anymore?
Cheers,
Nickers
I will second that…in fact, I would run as fast and far away as possible!
Yes, this ‘opportunity’ is all about recruiting. Who knows what the Elevate program is really even about? Or where the events will be held, who the speakers are, etc.?
Brent and Co. are riding on those who were successful at LLI to come on board, the ones who will sign up with blind faith. Many people trust Brent and Co. to lead them, but, you see, these ‘leaders’ will do just about anything for money in their pocket.
yes Brent has figured out that its easier to make money by conning others than working for an honest living..
what the hell is this?
just saw it on a facebook wall of someone i know…
Hi Alison,
Thanks for adding me! I look forward to connecting more in the future. Hope you’ve had an amazing weekend and are set for an even better week ahead!
Prosperity & Light,
Evi in PA
…www.7FigureFreedom.com/eviguarinimoreland?capture1 What happens when the #1 Chief Operating Officer and the #1 Billionaire Entrepreneur launch a new online business ?
Your Mentor For Success | Wendy Stevens
http://www.7FigureFreedom.com
http://www.7figurefreedom.com/eviguarinimoreland?capture1
who the heck is Evi Guarini-Moreland?
sorry Oz- wasn’t sure which topic to post this in?
Haha that woman never quits. Anyone coming across a Wendy Stevens opportunity needs to run! These marketers are generally an unethical group, but she may be the worst of them all.
Wendy paid the people at http://www.ripoffreport.com to take down her negative posts and even endorse her. She used to light up that page with complaints. Start a Wendy blog Oz and you too can have a pay day soon.
With Trump network…
Happened to have come across an astrology article by Lynn Hayes about the eclipse today, which I found interesting…
http://blog.beliefnet.com/astrologicalmusings/2010/06/capricorn-full-moon-eclipse-ju_comments.html
Then, happened to be on FB, and for some reason, looked at Brent Payne’s wall, and he posted verbatim Lynn’s article, without any credit to her!
It was like he was wanting to take credit for this…and, the few comments posted so far after him copying this made it seem as though he really thought of this, unbelievable!
Unfortunately you need to be on Payne’s friend list for the Facebook link to work.
Presenting other people’s work without acknowledgement doesn’t surprise me. Half of the MLM industry thinks ‘social media’ is setting up a Twitter account and regurgitating inspirational quotes off some list.
Hey there Oz… long time no see!!
Tony is back in the house. Mr Rush has joined Avant!
Gday Martin!
Yeah I’ve heard about Tony joining Avant. Not sure what this means for his Numis business, seems that lasted less then six months. I’m also wondering if Rush joined Avant at an executive level or as a standard associate.
Tony seems pretty committed to Avant for now, he’s even started to spout out the tincan PR article flood for some SEO love: http://www.articlebliss.com/Art/430529/53/Avant-A-Review-Of-The-Personal-Development-Network-Marketing-Company.html
Payne and Krider stole the content for their “beyond freedom” programme directly from someone esles work – so this is no suprise.
Tony Rush is the most arrogant, insulting person I have ever come into contact with – as displayed on previous boards.
this is what these conartists do – jump from one “biz” to another – scamming money off their groupies at every turn.
Look at Micheal Hamburger – LLI -> Lifepath -> Wealth Masters and all his groupies follow along like religious nutters following Jesus.
Tony is full of it.
Polaris and Avant have similar pay plans yet he’ll tell you they are MLM and he is not. Spin meister. He is amongst the best in the business in spin.
Here’s what Tony left out. No product shipment yet. No level 2 conference until 2011. No mention of the level 3 conference. Yet he’s claimed that people are already making $20,000 a month. How?
What intelligent human being joins an opportunity with no product no track record and no idea. Oh. Answered my own question.
Hi! I was surfing the net and was intersted in what you meant about Advant selling products or recruiting…Correct me if I’m wrong…but isn’t an pyramid just an excange of money and no products?
From what I see on their ads Advant has a product…I’m not connection as of yet with this company, I was just getting information on the Business.
By the way how do you expect people to follow what your saying if we don’t know who you are and what expeience you have with network marketing or MLM”s? I also want to thank you for if not for you I may not have gone on to look at their informaton more…..
A pyramid scheme also exists when any products are grossly overpriced, as is the case with all the self help companies such as Avant, LLI/PMG, Lifepath etc.
For example Avant charges a ridiculous US$16,495 for two people to attend their 4 day conference. Do the math folks, it don’t add up to much.
@Keri
Avant does indeed have a product but the balance between monetary reward for recruiting to the business and product commissions is slightly skewed in my opinion.
Sadly one of the trends over the last decade or so in MLM has been working out to get as close to the laws prohibiting pyramid schemes from operating as possible. This often includes having a token product or weighing distributor commissions on recruitment rather then retail sales.
Simple, the information I present can often be verified and researched further into by the reader. The internet is full of websites praising various opportunities and then hitting you with a sales pitch to join, or slamming an opportunity and then hitting you with a sales pitch to join some other opportunity.
I do neither. I try to present information that stands alone along with my own personal opinion.
I have no experience in MLM or network marketing. As such I’m not aligned with any company nor trying to push one onto you. This means the often used ‘you’re just bitter you failed’ accusation can’t be used and it’s also easy for me to get into the mindset of someone conducting their due diligence on a company.
Getting into the mindset of a ‘new’ MLM’er looking into businesses is an important aspect of my work and hopefully makes my work more accessible and readable. I’m glad this article prompted you to look further into Avant or any opportunity you’re looking to pursue.
Thoroughly investigating companies should be standard practice for anyone looking to get into MLM.
@Keri — the American FTC (Australian equivalent is ACCC) have established a guideline known as the Koscot Test, based on the case US vs. Koscot Interplanetary. One of the criteria says that a distributor’s income from the MLM must be at least 70% from actual sales of product/service and no more than 30% from recruiting.
Your local laws will be different, but that is a good proportion to consider. A real business should be about selling, not about recruiting. If there is NO product, just recruiting, then it is a pyramid scheme.
To answer the question above, it is about recruiting. Here is a post from Tony Rush’s personal Facebook account yesterday:
“Holy smoke…the new Avant Marketing System’s squeeze pages are converting at over 50%…..over 4,000 leads generated in this system yesterday alone. If you ever wanted to join Avant but were wondering about marketing…..the code has been cracked! :)”
Pure marketing B.S. Hype. Smoke. Mirrors.
Tony is obviously selling the system. Recruiting recruiters. By the way, Tony has an inside deal with Avant. He makes money by selling you the system of autoresponders and splash pages that he says are converting at 50%. That’s the real reason Tony is there.
Brent Payne is bringing back the old Liberty Leaguers to host calls which hopefully will attract the followers back for another round of fleecing. It all feels good now. But wait until people are strong-armed to buy conference tickets for an insane $25,000.
A couple more comments:
1) Having a product in itself proves nothing. Product must be SOLD TO OUTSIDE CONSUMERS. In a pyramid scheme disguised by a product, there is no outside sales. All sales are from upline to downline, or automatically shipped from company to downline, with no sales to actual consumers.
2) I just wrote an article about how a scam recruits its victim. I’ve identified 13 different tactics they or their “followers” use to deny criticism and create false aura legitimacy. I welcome any comments:
http://hubpages.com/hub/TVI-Express-Scam-Tactic-Analysis-How-and-Why-Do-People-Fall-for-a-Scam
Wow, so in just 10 days time Tony Rush will have 20,000 people under him.
Gee, they’re going to have to hire a football stadium by the time Avant’s first conference rolls around…
@K. Chang
Holy crap, that’s a mountain of valuable information for anyone doing research into TVI Express. Definietly worth the read and I think a lot of it can be applied to quite a few MLM opportunities in general.
Consider me impressed and this an open invitation if you ever want to guest publish something on BehindMLM. Keep up the great work Kasey.
Here is more evidence that Tony Rush Brent Payne David Varrone and all of Avant is selling recruiting and not a personal development product.
http://the-bignews.com
Breaking the financial speed limit
Just push a button
Automatic roadmap to your success
Gee. It sure seems easy.
If you look at the weareavant.com site you will see that the mccleary’s are no longer founding members. Looks like 2 of the 4 founders are gone. I wonder wha is going on in the ranks of avant… Tony and Gene taking over?
Du Cati be kidding me? THIS is the dumbest video I’ve ever seen. Avant Cribs showing off the house of Gene Braxton?
Cool. So he leases two vehicles and probably does not own that house either. And if he does, he’s in big trouble with the down market.
http://the-bignews.com Video 2
Oh, by the way, no talk about the products. Selling the system to sell the system.
I actually enjoyed watching that second video lol. Credit to Gene for knowing how to take the piss out of himself.
What did raise my eyebrow was during the second half the mention of making money just by generating leads. By going down this path you’re effectively disgarding the value of whatever product you attach to the lead generating system (or portal as they put it).
Then the business becomes simply about generating leads who if they buy in, because they want a big house, a Ducati or whatever, then they too focus on just generating leads… and… well whether there’s a system recruiting for you or you’re doing it yourself, at the end of the day it shouldn’t be what a MLM business is about.
Avant is having a free training event in Arizona this weekend. I guess registration was low from the usual price of $395 which is about what Liberty League used to charge. It will be interesting to see how many people show up in Arizona.
Great ..
so the CONVICTED FELON Stevens is now back in bed with Payne?
LOL … heard Rush, Braxton and Lavania are also on board
Hell …this is like Hitler’s boys getting back together to run Berlin in 47 … guess when Mike Hamburger is done screwing folks over at Wealth Masters he can suck back up to his brother in law Payne to screw more folks over like he did continously when him, Rush, Lavania and Stevens were conning folks into getting 2nd mortgages on their homes over their lies of being 7 figure income earners
Wonder how many incentivized lead companies they will “recommend” such as they did over at LLI with the 3 lead companies owned and operated by the LLI “Leaders”
Guess Stevens is on a major roll .. booted out of Lifepath Unlimited and left Trump telling everyone she was gonna write a book … hell … write that book Wendy telling everyone about your 2002 CC Fraud conviction that is right there on Google under WENDY STEVENS CRIMINAL RECORD
This will be entertaining .. Tony Rush got busted over at LLI w/Hamburger getting negative comments about LLI taken down at Wikipedia and Payne “mastered” screwing folks over at GP with Neid and Krider so give this just a matter of time until the lawsuits and heat from the AG in Arizona follows like it did continously when Payne was running LLI
Heard about Payne and the snake charmers (Braxton, Lavenia, Rush, Stevens, etc) back together to con folks out of more
money with Bretty boy’s latest “venture”
Lets look at some of the folks who were deep inside the trenches every day for the LLI “No Selling … No Telling” Pyramid con that was built along the same lines as Global Prosperity, was shut down in Australia by authorities and kept the AG very busy with complaints and lawsuits:
Wendy Stevens:
Former EMC member and convicted felon Wendy Stevens was booted out of Lifepath Unlimited and recently the same results with Trump’s Wellness “opp” ..
Convicted of fraud and forgery, no less: http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tcca/PDF/023/stevensw.pdf
A lot of former EMC members joined Lifepath Unlimited, run by Joe Neid, real last name is Niedospial. He claims that he was CEO of Liberty League International, but he posted this testimonial where he listed himself as COO (small but telling difference):
http://www.scottsdalecomputerrepairservice.com/testimonials.html
John and Shannon Lavenia:
The Lavenias seem to have gone a bit quiet following the launch of the Northstar Connect system.
John Lavenia last held a conference in Melbourne Australia in December. Tickets started off at $700 and something US, then dropped to $297 and then a week or so before the event dropped to $0.
That’s not a typo, the tickets were given away for nothing.
Following this event I don’t really know what the Lavenia’s have been up to. A software platform they seem pretty heavily involved in, Marketing Pro Plus, seems to have been launched, relaunched or updated recently.
The Lavenias have been pimping it out and seem to have made a new promotional video for it.
The Marketing Pro Plus website is ‘powered by Unified Wealth Solutions’ which I believe is owned by the Lavenias.
Marketing Pro Plus is also being advertised via Twitter by Tony Rush so I’m not sure if it’s got something to do with Northstar Connect or is just the Lavenia’s work.
Tony Rush
Tony Rush was arguably one of the most well known EMC members of Polaris Media Group. He was often cited as the ‘mouthpiece’ of the company and charged with policing the internet and countering any negative information published.
Late last year he quit Polaris Media Group with fellow EMC members Gene Braxton and Shannon and John Lavenia.
Shortly afterwards it was announced that the four of them were forming an MLM training company, Northstar Connect. I have no idea how successful or non successful this venture has been but it’s apparently not been successful enough to provide a full time income.
Recently Rush announced his involvement in the Numis Network. From the brief research I’ve conducted into this company, they are in the business of selling numismatic collectible coins.
The problem with mass marketing collectibles via MLM is that the more people that own something, the more it’s collectible value drops.
Then there’s the fact that people seem to be selling the same coins on eBay Numis are offering it’s distributors but for cheaper. This begs the question as to whether the Numis Network opportunity is about the coin products themselves, or simply about remarketing the business opportunity to new prospects.
Tony Rush is currently flogging the Numis Network business opportunity on his website, rather then the companies retail products themselves.
GREAT EXAMPLE OF TONY RUSH in ACTION …. posted online from one the “fortunate ones” to have interfaced with Rush:
Ad C
September 15th, 2010 at 12:02 pm Ad C(Quote)
Oz,
I gotta say a big thankyou to for these threads about LLI/PMG you really did help alot of people. I was once a LLI’er and a PMG’er but not to a great extent thankfully, i did lose a couple grand on advertising, etc.. but I did learn a huge lesson. If its too good to be true, people, it probably is. I could never ethically sell any of LLI/PMG to anyone because I myself questioned the integrity of it all.
I then quit the system (gee they make it hard to quit) and had to fight to get some money back from the months they still had me subscribed when i TOLD them via email I quit. Im fairly sure I did get some money back which was good.
I recently recieved an email from Tony Rush about some stupid product he was trying to hack to people. I think replied to him advising him to stop selling people “Bullsh*t”. Well I can tell you he wasn’t entirely happy with my email and we had a few emails back and forth, with him saying that (in so many words) im a failure and go ahead and live my mediocre life lol.
Sounds like I touched a nerve with old Tony? If you dont cave to their bullcr*p they get offended it would seem lol :O Poor Tony. Poor LLI/PMG…hahaha. Oh Also, I had Rachel Oliver as my “leader” and I can tell you, one of the most condesending, self involved, unhelpful people I could of ever come accross – and I wondered to myself “If this Banshee Woman is up here, whos running hell?” (Thankyou Van Wilder for you wise words).
There were so many warning signs from the start, I wish I was wiser, but i NOW am. Thankyou again OZ, you really made people wake up to it all.
Kind regards,
Ad C
Gene Braxton: As for Braxton …. I do remember getting an email from Rush a while ago, quoting a letter from Braxton and promoting some forgettable piece of rubbish.
Gene Braxton, John and Shannon Lavenia, and Tony Rush are all involved in Marketing Pro Plus. They are close friends and Scientologists.
They lost their contract with Polaris Media Group after their Northstar Connect system bombed. It didn’t do anything that it was promised to do.
Yip, Tony Rush & Gene Braxton are in some marketing thing together. Here’s a copy of an email I received today:
Last week’s live “role-play” call was a HUGE success.
As promised — Tony Rush and Gene Braxton are back on Tuesday to offer you another opportunity to
hone your prospecting skills!
It doesn’t matter if you’re in Dubli, TVI, Polaris Media Group,Trump Network, Numis Network, Monavie, etc….
….it’s still all about creating conversations with your prospects that cause them to WANT to know more about you and your
business.
So, if you’re not enrolling as many people as you want in your busines….this call is for you!
NOTE: this is an INTERACTIVE call. You’ll be invited to play the role of a prospect…OR Tony & Gene will be the
“prospect” and you can “call” them. This will give you a GREAT opportunity to get personal coaching on your
prospecting!
TUESDAY NIGHT (Wednesday morning for Australia/NewZealand)
PHONE: 1-712-432-3100
PIN: 729187
TIME: 5pm EST (New York Time)
Also, the PowerProspecting video will be taken down this week. If you haven’t watched it, click here to get that info now
before it’s gone:
Click Here To Watch The Video Before It’s Taken Offline
See you on the call!
To your IMMEDIATE success,
Gene Braxton and Tony Rush
Have you seen one Gene Braxton’s latest website? http://www.TheTopEarner.com .
go to ten seconds into the video.
Quote — “For nearly a decade I’ve shown thousands of people all over the world how to earn huge incomes from home.”
Gene is in Numis. Along with Tony Rush.
Their claims seem to slightly overinflated.
Perhaps the Numis Network is a category worthy of air time over on BehindMLM.com .
Here’s the video you’ll receive when you opt-into Gene’s website:
http://www.thebest7minutes.com/movie.html
Some of my favorite quotes:
“The most powerful network marketing plan in HISTORY” – Tony Rush
“Guys, I’m not exaggerating.” – Tony Rush
“A single mother on welfare can find a way to get started.” – Tony Rush
Yeah guy they’re crooks… that’s really well established – but you spent over 30 minutes copying and pasting all that? Joe, joe and nelson?
This blog puts out great info but some of you commenters – and I know you’re just one guy joejoenelson – some of you commenters have a bad case of somebodypissedinmywheatiesfiveyearsago seasoned with a bit of OCD and mixed with an assload of psychosis.
Seriously, it’s like a loser convention of ex-LLI’ers – most of you are badmouthing the companies you’re not with, some of you are defending the company that you are with, and a few of you were ripped off and are screaming that you want to help keep it from happening to others – but really you’re just pissed cuz you were fucked in the ass with a horse cock and now you’re looking for your own horse cock so you can fuck them right back.
Why is it that you see this so much in the personal development mlm arena? Not one of you self help companies is doing really well – and it’s no wonder why.
Personal Development is a multibillion dollar industry and you jokers have a minuscule percentage of that – because you’re a bunch of bitter backstabbing bitches. That’s the only BBB you’ll be a part of.
Wealth Masters International, LifePath Unlimited, GiveOpp, Polaris Global Marketing… you’re a carnival of assholes – a sad sack of unoriginality. I’d shit on you but my shit doesn’t deserve that.
too funny …
Wendy Stevens is back in action as one of the “Players” with Lavenia’s latest pyramid scam?
I guess the heat being applied by the continual lawsuits and fines from the AG in AZ was getting too hot to handle for the snakes named Rush, Braxton, Stevens, etc
Love the “claims” they are all millionaires and in particular Stevens claiming to have authored a book is right there with Palin’s claim with her garbage she touts as a book
The only the EX snakes at LLI like Rush and Stevens – along with Michael Hamburger – were good at were conning folks into getting a 2nd mortgage on their homes to become “Players” like they were … and loved the bullcrap incentivized leads through Lavenia’s butt buddy Donny Glanville that were shoved down the prospects throats with 1000% markup ..
Stevens and company left behind a long trail of blood and nothing will change as this pack of con artists have the morals of folks like Dick Cheney …
DO NOT SPEND ANY MONEY WITH THESE FULL TIME CON ARTISTS !!!
Remember …. WENDY STEVENS is back onboard with AVANT and
did major damage over at LLI with Payne and lets look at her background shall we?
Wendy Steven’s dirty little secret. This is what she does not tell you about herself when she is on stage or on the phone running her mouth.
Wendy Stevens admitted in a Tennessee court that she stole and illegally used the credit cards of several of her personal friends and that other people that she knew also.
Her appeal was denied by the court because she had such an extensive history of committing the same type of credit card fraud and theft. Investigators found store surveillance video from a local Target store in Tennessee, that caught Wendy Stevens on tape using a stolen credit card.
See Wendy Steven’s criminal past here:
http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tcca/PDF/023/stevensw.pdf
More “fans” of Avant “superstar” Wendy Stevens:
http://208.86.2.178/blog.php?b=9058
Flashback to how Bretty Payne / Shane Krider ran the Liberty League International Pyramid:
* Who owns ExtremeLeadsUSA and why does that matter?
ExtremeLeadsUSA is Liberty Leagues featured online lead generation service.
Liberty League recommends if you are going to purchase leads online, you purchase them from ExtremeLeadsUSA.
Why is this important?
Shane Krider (the co-founder of Liberty League International) owns ExtremeLeadsUSA.
This information is at http://www.networksolutions.com. Do a WHO IS search and enter http://www.ExtremeLeadsUSA.com
Shane Krider and Brent Payne developed a business where their associates must have leads in order to be successful.
Then they develop a lead generation service and recommended it as their featured online lead generation service to their associates.
It was not disclosed to Liberty League associates that a co-founder of LLI owns the online lead generation service that Liberty League recommends they use.
What this appears to be, is the founders of Liberty League International developing as many income streams as possible, from Liberty League associates.
If you had attended Liberty Leagues business overview call, you would have heard the script for this part of the call and it goes something like this
Industry Professionals have valued this course at well over $5,000. Apparently, education does not come cheap these days; ask anyone who is paying for college. Making if affordable for anyone who seriously wants to get it, Liberty League offers Beyond Freedom for only $1,495.
In September 2006, a new, unused Beyond Freedom program sold on eBay for $108. I sell on eBay frequently and I can tell you that if something with a value of $5,000 (or even $1,500) is up for auction, it does not sell for $108.
Who are the big money makers and can you REALLY duplicate their success: It’s important you take a close look at this if you are really serious about signing on with Avant …
The big money makers are the people at the TOP of the pyramid.
In order to have the same success as a top income earner, you must be able to DUPLICATE what a top income earner does.
It is critical you understand this.
Many of the top income earners use the fact that they ARE top income earners to get people to join their enterprise.
Don Glanville (a top income earner and EMC Member) ran a 15-page, copy-written ad on eBay. The ad includes pictures of Don in “suppossed” million dollar home, in front if his expensive cars and sitting on his $20,000 bed. The caption underneath one of his pictures states that his sunglasses cost $1,700 … all as fake as Lavenia’s home setup in Scottsdale that was a front to con folks into raising over $20,000 for LLI offshore events
LETS LOOK AT HOW THE CON GAME @ LLI THAT BRETT PAYNE RAN WORKED:
Did Liberty League REALLY enforce the same advertising rules and regulations for all associates, or are family members of the co-founders exempt? No.
According to the compliance guide, the use of the name Liberty League International may not be used in advertising unless permission is granted.
Michael Hamburger was a top income earner and trainer with Liberty League International. Michael was granted permission to use the name Liberty League International in his ads.
Michael ran a 3-page ad in the Home Business Connection magazine which is designed to look like a magazine article.
If we go back to the discussion on duplication, most will agree that a three-page advertisement in a magazine is NOT duplicable by new associates.
Yet, Liberty League approved Michael Hamburger to run an ad and recruit new associates into his enterprise using a method that is NOT duplicable by his new associates.
In March 2005, Michael Hamburger was on the cover of the Home Business Connection magazine. Here again, is a top income earner using his status AS a top income earner to recruit new associates into his enterprise.
What does this have to do with anything?
Michael Hamburger is Brent Payne’s brother in-law!
MORE ON THE CON PYRAMID SCAM BRETT PAYNE RAN AT LLI WITH KRIDER, STEVENS, RUSH, GLANVILLE, etc:
Profiteering and non-disclosure
Remember Don Glanville, the top income earner with a 15-page copy-written ad on eBay?
Don Glanville is the owner and operator Quicklister.
Quicklister is a lead generation service that Liberty League International, the top income earners and team leaders promote to new associates who are looking for a way to generate leads on the internet.
Here’s what my team leader emailed me when they rolled out the Quicklister service.
Liberty League proudly announces our Advanced Marketing Center powered by Quicklister. This amazing new product contains the most cutting-edge tools for you to market and run your business! For a limited time only, your first month will be FREE! To upgrade your subscription to the Advanced Marketing Center, click˜My Account then Upgrade Subscription — UPGRADE NOW!!!
So, here you have Liberty League International PROMOTING services that are OWNED and OPERATED by Liberty Leagues top income earners, in which the owners and operators are making profit from the LLI customer base.
Payne and company ran with Neid (???) over at GPI … same Pyramid con game that the Feds shut down … LLI had the same exact business model and was in constant trouble with Lawsuits and heat from the AG in Arizona
NOTHING WILL CHANGE… CON ARTISTS LIKE TONY RUSH AND WENDY STEVENS WILL DO WHAT THEY DO BEST: LIE AND TAKE THE MONEY OF OTHERS WITH FABRICATIONS ABOUT THEIR INCOME CLAIMS…
Tony: by the way…how is that $60,000 home ya own in Bama?
LOL!
A little vulgar, but an interesting observation. Why do we see so much negativity from those involved in personal development mlm’s?
That’s original…. one of the more interesting comments here. Quite colorful and descriptive.
I had to repeat that. It slays me!
I had the “honor” of personally interfacing with Stevens, Hamburger and Lavania …
Thank god I didn’t fall for their con act of getting a 2nd mortgage on the home as they pushed that aspect hard to get
the money and then run to the next sucker.
I see Stevens is pushing hard to bury her criminal record to make sure everyone knows she lives in Florida and does not
want folks to realize that is her pathetic ass online with the 2002 felony charges in Tennessee.
More amazing is how Hamburger never ran into trouble or got his ass kicked with the crap he pulled … and now see he is running the show over at Wealth Masters which is equal to Bush being back in charge of the USA.
Let me all burn a slow death in hell where their criminal asses belong
was approached by Wendy Stevens at one of the LLI events in Arizona …
Pathetic con artist … obvious as hell from the starting bell that she is after your money and when told no she will speak
down to you with her “success stories”
anyone know if she is still on probation?
Classic Brett Payne who learned the “tricks” over at Global Prosperity:
Just an aside, Karl Schneider, Denise Hopkins, Bob Kilgore, Ronnie in Tucson, Ben Collier, Willie Stevens, Nelson Cornelius and Joe Thomas are publishing from the same IP address and are most likely the same person.
Pointless insults don’t contribute to the discussion.
I’ll take a guess… Because they thought there really are some “shortcuts” to personal development and they felt very disappointed when they realized there aren’t any, and they have been following a “false prophet”, to use a religious term?
I think you’re right, K.Chang. I also think that the large profit margins attract con artists. This is me being cynical, but I’d wager that the top distributors for these personal growth MLM’s have neither purchased nor completed the very programs that they sell.
That commenter was right when he said some of these “commenters have a bad case of somebodypissedinmywheatiesfiveyearsago seasoned with a bit of OCD and mixed with an assload of psychosis.”
I’d like a copy of one of these personal development kits; does anyone know where I can get one on the cheap?
Everything posted is 100% Facts about the con snake artists named Lavenia/ Stevens/ Hamburger/ Tony Rush and his right hand boy Braxton
Facts hurt and so is the damage these con artists do on a daily basis
anyone care to debate that:
STEVENS IS NOT A CONVICTED FELON?
HAMBURGER AND RUSH WERE BUSTED FOR TRYING TO TAKE FACTS DOWN OFF WIKIPEIDA REGARDING THE LLI PONZI SCAM?
THAT PAYNE AND COMPANY RAN 3 LEAD COMPANIES SELLING INCENTIVIZED CRAP LEADS TO LLIers?
4 …. 3 ….. 2 …. 1
I didn’t think so …..
You pay the shipping and I’ll send you LLI’s Beyond Freedom, Polaris Global’s Beyond Freedom Evolution, and Avant’s Elevate Program. Just message me at:
someonepissedinmywheaties (at ) gmail dot c o m
Nothing better than watching the Snakes with their “I am a millionaire” bullcrap when Liberty League was still in a functioning situation … hell Hamburger on stage reminded me of watching Sarah Palin and her notes on the palm routine
Sure ya are Tony Rush the Lead Broker who owns a home with an estimated market value of $60,000 and his right hand boy Geno Braxton ….
Their act at SUPER SATURDAYS in Scottsdale was the crap that goes into a Hollywood Movie …
Karl, if you have any of the following symptoms:
1. 8 or more online personas
2. an overpowering desire to talk trash about your former colleagues
3. nothing better to do than post several comments, one after another, utilizing your various online personas
You maybe at risk for Online Multiple Personality Disorder, or OMPD.
Call 1-800-IM-CRAZY for an informational pamphlet on OMPD. This informative brochure contains recommendations for lifestyle changes that can help you control your OMPD along with a handy card that you can give your psychiatrist for a fast and easy diagnosis.
OMPD is treatable through prescription medication such as Lithium, Mercury and Lead.
The most noticeable improvement, at least to those around you, is that the unrelenting aroma of shit that permeates your body and soul will be replaced with your normal bodily odors. This is because you’ll no longer be “full of it.”
You’ll also discover that there are a lot of things better
You don’t have to live with OMPD. It is treatable. Any side effects experienced while medicated are surely an improvement over the way you are now.
Don’t be selfish, Karl; pick up your phone and dial 1-800-IM-CRAZY. Trained operators are standing by.
Love seeing the snakes now out trying to defend con artists
like Rush and Stevens …
Good luck as their “track records” is the stuff of “Legends”
in the world of internet related crime activities
Pack up your shit, Mike Bromell, the insulting snake oil salesman has arrived.
Congratulations OZ, Mike Bromell has now joined in on the board. Google this nut case and see what a nasty human being this man is. He is a racist and crazy. He has been attacking me online and over the phone for years.
Mike is notorious for posting under fake names and has shut boards down due to his over posting of crap.
He is also well known in the industry for calling people and trying to pitch them on doing PR work, selling leads or whatever else he is up to.
Once he gets a NO, a switch flips in his brain and he begins harassing the person on the phone, to include but not limited to vulgarity, threats, screaming and more. His attacks become very personal. He is a scary little man.
Mike Bromell has made attacking the leaders in this industry his life mission. He has attacked Tim Darnell & Jack Weinzierl from Advantage Conferencing repeatedly.
He has attacked every top leader at LLI, including Brent Payne, Shane Krider, John Lavenia, Michael Hamburger, Wendy Stevens, Gene Braxton, Tony Rush and more.
Jason Cox had Mike fired from his pathetic job at Smart Age Media for his threatening behavior over the phone. He has attacked IGI Galleries and was removed from IGI due to his lies and harassment.
It is not just IGI & LLI that have caught Mike’s eye. Mike has repeatedly attacked Joe Neid from LifePath Unlimted and the top leaders there. Mike has attacked Jay Kubaseek and Aaron Parkinson from Carbon Copy Pro.
You can always tell Mike by his repetition in vocabulary and by posting the same BS under similar names. He got banned from SoapBoxMom repeatedly. He got banned from Scam.com. He gets banned by most reputable boards. He says the same things over and over. “Brett Payne” & the repeated false allegations claimed year after year to be facts was the big giveaway.
Mike is well known for calling people’s ads and using fake names. He goes under the alias of Mitch Baker and others. His behavior is disgusting.
He has been caught on voicemail and posted to youtube (Ozedit: video unavailable as of March 2020)
I highly recommend blocking his IP address.
I dunno who Mike Bromell is but your behavioural description fits what’s been going on here.
I’ve started just marking as spam the masses of comments that just regurgitate the same old shit he’s already left as comments. Currently he seems to have a hard on for Wendy Stevens and the Avant team.
Will continue to do so unless he has something new to say. You don’t need to publish the same copy and paste a dozen times.
Can’t help but wonder who you are too :).
I removed the resume as I don’t think we need to get that personal with him, assuming of course that it is him.