AutoTrade Gold Review: Panthera Trade & Pansaka sec fraud
Despite the company going by AutoTrade Gold, it actually operates off a domain belonging to Panthera Trade Technologies.
Supposedly Panthera Trade Technologies has an “API platform dedicated to AutoTrade Gold”.
Panthera Trade Technologies claims it’s “one of the introducing brokers of LegoMarket LLC.”
LegoMarket LLC is a shell company incorporated in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
AutoTrade Gold licenses are sold through a third company, Pansaka.
On their website, Pansaka refers to itself as “PT. Pansaky Berdikari Bersama”.
Given that…
- AutoTrade Gold affiliate registration is through Pansaka; and
- AutoTrade Gold support is provided by Panthera Trade Technologies
…it is highly probably that whoever is running AutoTrade Gold is also behind Panthera Trade Technologies and Pansaka.
Neither AutoTrade Gold, Panthera Trade Technologies or Pansaka provides company ownership information.
Pansaka’s website operates off an Indonesian domain. This suggests whoever’s behind AutoTrade Gold might have ties to Indonesia but isn’t definitive.
Panthera Trade Technologies’ website domain (“pantheratrade.live”), was privately registered on June 3rd, 2021.
Pansaka’s website domain (“pansaka.co.id”), was privately registered on December 7th, 2020.
At time of publication, Alexa ranks the US as the top source of traffic to both Panthera Trade Technologies’ and Pansaka’s websites (50% and 46% respectively).
Indonesia is the only other notable source of traffic, coming in at 38% and 44% respectively.
This does support AutoTrade Gold’s ties to Indonesia. The US traffic dominance however is unclear.
Update 10th January 2022 – A reader in the comments below has provided some insight into Pansaka’s CEO.
Dinar Wahyu Saptian Dyfrig, aka Wahyu Kenzo, is Pansaka’s CEO.
Given the close proximity of Pansaka to AutoTrade Gold and Panthera Trade, he’s assumed to ber running or involved in the running of those too.
According to Dyfrig’s social media profiles, he’s based out of Jakarta in Indonesia. This brings us full-circle. /end update
As always, if an MLM company is not openly upfront about who is running or owns it, think long and hard about joining and/or handing over any money.
AutoTrade Gold’s Products
AutoTrade Gold has no retailable products or services.
Affiliates are only able to market AutoTrade Gold affiliate membership itself.
AutoTrade Gold’s Compensation Plan
AutoTrade affiliates pay a fee to access AutoTrade Gold’s trading bot.
- License 1 – pay $112 and you are able to trade with $100 to $500
- License 2 – pay $224 and you are able to trade with $100 to $5000
- License 3 – pay $560 and you are able to trade with $100 to $30,000
- License 4 – pay $2800 and you are able to trade with $100 to $1,000,000
- License 5 – pay $3920 and you are able to trade with $1,000,000 or more
Note that although USD amounts are provided, all payments within AutoTrade Gold and its associated companies are made in cryptocurrency.
The MLM side of AutoTrade Gold pays on funds traded by downline affiliates.
AutoTrade Gold Affiliate Ranks
There are five affiliate ranks within AutoTrade Gold’s compensation plan.
Along with their respective qualification criteria, they are as follows:
- Trader – sign up as an AutoTrade Gold affiliate
- Sub IB Partner – invest at least $3000, and personally recruit at least twenty affiliates who together have invested at least $30,000
- Sub IB – invest at least $7500, and personally recruit at least thirty-five affiliates who together have invested at least $75,000
- IB – invest at least $15,000, and personally recruit at least fifty affiliates who together have invested at least $150,000
- MIB – invest at least $250,000, personally recruit at least one hundred affiliates who together have invested at least $500,000, and generate a total downline of two thousand five hundred affiliates who together have invested at least $5,000,000
Referral Commissions
AutoTrade Gold pays referral commissions via a unilevel compensation structure.
A unilevel compensation structure places an affiliate at the top of a unilevel team, with every personally recruited affiliate placed directly under them (level 1):
If any level 1 affiliates recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 2 of the original affiliate’s unilevel team.
If any level 2 affiliates recruit new affiliates, they are placed on level 3 and so on and so forth down a theoretical infinite number of levels.
AutoTrade Gold caps payable unilevel team levels at four.
Referral commissions are paid as a percentage of funds invested across these four levels based on rank:
- Traders to Sub IBs earn 20% on level 1 (personally recruited affiliates) and 10% on level 2
- IBs earn 20% on level 1 and 10% on levels 2 and 3
- MIBs earn 20% on level 1 and 10% on levels 2 to 4
AutoTrade Gold affiliate membership fees also generate business volume. It is unclear whether commissions are paid out on this volume.
Joining AutoTrade Gold
AutoTrade Gold affiliate membership is tied to a $112 to $3920 license fee payment.
- License 1 – $112
- License 2 – $224
- License 3 – $560
- License 4 – $2800
- License 5 – $3920
The more paid in license fees the higher an AutoTrade Gold affiliate’s income potential.
Note that full participation in AutoTrade Gold’s income opportunity requires both a Pansaka and Panthera Trade Technologies account.
Also note that all payments within AutoTrade Gold are made in cryptocurrency.
AutoTrade Gold Conclusion
AutoTrade Gold is your typical “lulz can’t touch our money” trading bot Ponzi scheme, run through Pansaka and Panthera Trade Technologies.
You have a trading bot, supposedly trading in gold, created by persons unknown and generating an advertised 15% a month.
Needless to say anyone on the planet with a bot generating a 15% monthly return, isn’t selling you access for as little as $112.
If AutoTrade Gold was a bot actually capable of consistently generating 15% a month, whoever is running the scheme would invest and compound their way to riches.
That’s not happening for what should be obvious reasons.
AutoTrade Gold represents it generates trading revenue via “the gold market”.
Supposedly this will be expanded to cryptocurrency, oil and forex trading at some point.
No evidence of actual trading is provided (the only acceptable proof would be audited financial reports).
The basis of a “lulz can’t touch our money” Ponzi scheme is rigged trades. This creates the illusion of returns being paid to affiliates until new investment dries up.
At that point a collapse is triggered, resulting in trades universally rigged in favor of AutoTrade Gold’s admin. This process cleans out affiliate accounts.
This exit-scam is typically accompanied via a communication claiming the bot was hacked or malfunctioned.
One point of due-diligence I want to address is AutoTrade Gold feigning legitimacy through LegoMarket LLC.
LegoMarket has meaningless basic registration with the NFA. And equally meaningless registration with the Australian Securities and Investment Commission.
Both of registrations are meaningless, primarily because LegoMarket is a faceless shell company, incorporated in a red flag jurisdiction and likely with bogus details.
LegoMarket’s NFA basic registration is meaningless because it doesn’t address AutoTrade Gold being an unregistered securities offering.
LegoMarket’s ASIC registration is meaningless. No financial filings have been made and AutoTrade Gold isn’t actively soliciting investment from Australian residents.
LegoMarket is also registered as a shell company in Australia as “LEGO MARKET LLC PTY LTD”.
For the purpose of due-diligence, basic incorporation anywhere is meaningless.
With the US and Indonesia being its primary source of new investment, AutoTrade Gold and its associated companies need to be registered with financial regulators in both countries.
In the US that’s the SEC. In Indonesia securities are regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
Neither AutoTrade Gold or its associated companies are registered with the SEC or FSA, because as above it’s a “lulz can’t touch our money” Ponzi scheme.
If you want to ignore that, by not registering at a minimum AutoTrade Gold is still committing securities fraud.
The math behind Ponzi schemes guarantees that when they collapse, the majority of participants lose money.
Signing up to Pansaka and Panthera Trade also requires AutoTrade Gold affiliates to hand over personal information.
Send your valid ID (identity card, passport or driving license) as well as a selfie with your ID close to your face.
This additionally opens up AutoTrade Gold affiliates to identity theft.
Sending your personal information to randoms over the internet is generally a bad idea.
Sending your personal information to randoms running Ponzi schemes is asinine.
Update 9th March 2023 – Dinar Dyfrig has been arrested in Indonesia.
Some info that may be useful; Pansaka is registered in Indonesia. The CEO is Dinar Wahyu but he is more known by his nickname Wahyu Kenzo.
Traders who trade ATG and ATC can withdraw their profits and funds 24/7 from PantheraTrade.
Other than using the ATG and ATC bots it is also possible to manually trade on PantheraTrade using the MT4 trading terminal. You only need to provide proof of identity when opening an account on the PantheraTrade broker site.
Proof of identity is something required by any broker. Proof of identity on Pansaka is not required.
Pansaka office location: goo.gl/maps/mhaP5YTpEhgi9F6T6
CEO Pansaka: instagram.com/wahyukenzo88
CEO Pansaka: youtube.com/watch?v=Yje6T2dHv8I
Pansaka registration with the Indonesian Ministry of Communication and Information: pse.kominfo.go.id/tdpse-detail/2905
Thanks for the heads up. I’ve added your research to the review.
Thru the MT4 application you can monitor the gold trades in real time.
For the trades to be rigged, AutoTrade Gold would need to know the future.
There is a chance they are delaying the gold price feed to MT4.
I have many MT4 brokers and will try to compare gold pricing to ensure they are in sync. I will report back in a few weeks.
Not your bot, not your trades. AutoTrade Gold can do whatever they want with your account balance.
Worrying about MT4 nonsense is meaningless. There is no substitute for registration with financial regulators and providing audited financial reports.
Again, if a live trade is placed on MT4, you are watching it in real time. Say you buy Gold hoping it will go up $8 before you sell it.
In MT4 you have to wait in real time for it to go up knowing there is a good chance it will go down forcing your equity to downdraw as you wait for the price to come back up, or concede an outright loss.
I will watch their trades and compare their Gold price data to my other MT4 accounts to make sure they are not delaying the gold price data.
If they are delaying the gold price data to mt4, then that would indeed allow them to ‘know’ the future in a fraudulent way. I will report back in a few weeks.
And? Not your bot, not your trades.
Look past the bUt I cAn SeE tRaDeS! phase.
Ok so the next time they post a trade, I will manually copy it to another broker and see if it pans out. I agree, it will take more than a couple wins to prove valid.
Their trades are verified on myfxbook, meaning they match the real market.
Is it enough to ensure that it’s real, i cant say.
@Me
No legally required audited financial reports, no verification.
Only one reason an MLM company wouldn’t provide reports and choose to operate illegally…
You will not be able to copy any transaction because all transactions are copy protected.
This is done so that transactions cannot be copied to another account.
Not sure if this is helpful information but with PantheraTrade (LegoMarket) you can also open a Standard or Pro MT4 account and do live/manual trading or install your own EA.
I meant that it is not possible to establish reliably whether this is an adviser or a financial pyramid.
That can definitely be established.
Passive investment opportunity? Securities offering.
No retail? Pyramid scheme.
What do yo mean with “no retail”?
PantheraTrade does not “claim” to be related to “LegoMarket LLC”. They are related.
The daily/weekly reports emails are sent from LegoMarket LLC.
Retail = retail customers. If everyone is an affiliate there is no retail.
Obviously AutoTrade Gold, Panthera Trade, Pansaka and LegoMarket are all the same company run by the same people.
Regardless, what is claimed is noted in the review.
Thank you. I’m a retail customer. I use the ATG and the ATC robots to earn money from trading profits.
I have no issues withdrawing whenever I want.
There are no retail customers in AutoTrade Gold. You signed up as an affiliate.
Can you explain the difference between an “affiliate” and a “retail customer”.
Affiliate = access to comp plan.
Retail customer = no access to comp plan.
Sorry but wat is “comp plan”?
Mate I think it’s time for you to hit the books and MLM 101.
I have been withdrawing frequently. Still confused what you mean with “comp plan”.
I just watched a gold deal online. The deal opened, after a while it closed in profit in real time. Where is the pyramid scheme here?
Read the review. You pay the company to use their bot, literally you invest money (not your bot, not your trades) and recruit others who do the same.
Then you receive a percentage of funds invested by those under you, up to four levels deep. That’s your pyramid scheme.
Can you recruit people? Do you make a commission off those you recruit? How much of a commission? Even if you don’t recruit anyone, could you if you wanted to?
That is a “comp plan” i.e., an MLM compensation plan for its affiliates.
It is another pyramid marketing, Ponzi scam. Also a handy means of organised criminals to get hold of cryptocurrency to fund other organised crime. And identify theft to cover their tracks!
It still amazes me how many people fall for these scams!
I have caught the last three trades in real time. The first thing I did was switch to LQDFX and Hugosway MT4 accounts to compare their gold delivery prices and time stamps with ATG’s.
I can say with confidence that ATG is not delaying the data feed to their MT4 terminal. The real time data accurately matches LQDFX and Hugosway.
All three trades averaged about 2-3 minutes of live action, and all three ended in profit. However, I did notice that ATG is ending trades prematurely BEFORE posting the closing trade to Mt4.
I believe this is to prevent copy bots from opening and closing their trades on other accounts, but I could be wrong.
Thus far, for the 3 trades I have caught in real time, both the opening and closing prices and their corresponding time stamps are accurate as compared to 2 other legit FX brokers.
I will keep studying the trades.
“Comp” = compensation. When you sign up and pay AutoTrade Gold, you’re signing up as an affiliate.
That means you can sign up others under you. It does not matter whether or not you do sign up others; the fact that you can means you’re an affiliate, not a retail customer.
There are no retail customers in this scheme, which by definition makes it a pyramid scheme. The fact that new investment is used to pay earlier investors makes it a Ponzi scheme, also.
Whether or not they have a bot making a few trades here and there is of no importance. They have not registered their security offering with the proper regulating bodies, nor have they provided audited 3rd-party financial reports.
That alone tells you they are operating illegally. The only way you can earn money with them is by their stealing from others on your behalf.
Your money was stolen the moment you invested it. That’s how Ponzi schemes work. When they stop working (and eventually, they ALL do), most of the participants are left crying and poor.
You’ve been warned.
I have an account with 3 other brokers, including Icmarkets, and they all have similar referral programs where you get rewarded for recommending them to others.
Cool. Entirely irrelevant.
Let’s take it all in order. The client receives a percentage of the Adviser’s license sold once. The client receives a percentage of the traded volume of his subordinate organization. If he does not sell the adviser, then he does not receive his percentage. If he does not have a subordinate organization, he does not receive bonuses. What is the pyramid?
I’ve been calling this scam for over a year now. Nice to finally see it exposed here.
They’re quite active in France. I think for a while their first market was France and Indonesia (not sure if indonesians can participate tho).
The trades are delayed by a few seconds.
If you guys are trying to compare manually then you’ll not see anything because it’s to fast, you’ll only see the trades that last a few minutes and those are irrelevant they dont make the profits.
The 99% of the profits come from those very fast trades that last only few seconds, those at the moment you get them they’re already almost closed with great “profits”.
When there is a big moove they set up a trade in the past so that they allready know the direction of the market, then the market is likely to keep going in that direction so you think it’s a real trade making profits and if market goes back they can just close the trade with smaller “profit”.
It’s an old well known type of trading scam. 3TGFX, Perfecto , 5 gulden has been running that type of scam like 5 years ago they were paying like 2-3%/month the trades had a bigger delay and would last a few minutes at least.
In this forum: mql5.com/en/forum/355847
the modos explain that Legomarket has been banned from MQL5 for mnipulating datas on their server. That’s exactly what i’ve explained they write fake trades on their server.
Trades are delayed because the ATG and ATC trading robots use MAM trading. LegoMarket offers MAM trading but also IcMarkets, FPMarkets and several other brokers.
The delay is done on purpose otherwise any hillbilly who is copying a MAM trade master account (e.g. ATC or ATG) could resell the signal on MQL5 at $30 per month while the master trader who does the trading, as well as the broker, lose out.
This is why our Russian friends at MQL5 ban servers that are delayed as they cannot make money from these signals.
Anyone who tries to copy the signal complains to MQL5 because it isn’t working.
Having said this, LegoMarket have recently upgraded the server and our now on LegoMarketLLC2-Live and you will find many ATG and ATC signals again on MQL5.
I am guessing it is only a matter of time before MQL5 decides to remove them again.
Other than this, you can actually also open a standard account on PantheraTrade and trade manually. You can deposit and withdraw from your “Standard” or “Pro” manual trading accounts whenever you want as with any other broker.
Read. The. Review. If you can’t see the pyramid, then either you’re blind or you’re in denial. Can’t think of any other way.
You can’t enter the scheme without paying for a license, so the comment about referring an affiliate without a license is irrelevant.
On that volume you are getting paid, most likely recycling funds from those recruited after you. The trading commissions are also coming from below.
Your whole down like is a pyramid within a pyramid.
If you had joined over a year ago you would have withdrawn your initial deposit twice and still be trading today 😉
This remark just shows how little you know about this MAM trade program. Indonesia has the most users by far.
This might come as a shock to scammers but some people aren’t interested in stealing money.
AutoTrade Gold, Panthera Trade and Pansaka aren’t registered to offer securities in Indonesia. They’re just as illegal there as they are anywhere else.
That’s complete nonsense. I’ve invested and worked with various brokers with PAMM and MAMM and they never had a delay.
If they dont want to be copied then they should use a PAMM (on a regulated broker).
The delay is just because they need time to see where the market went the last few seconds and set up a fake trade.
Being able to trade by yourself in one of their account is meaningless, those accounts are not connected to the market, it’s like trading on a demo account.
Common Practice for years I am even Developing a system that does similar using A broker with slower market quotes because they use a third party liquidity provider for there broker which in turn makes the price quotes delayed.
Then you use a fast broker that provides there own liquidity and make profits off the price difference of the traded asset. Not a scam clearly just a well Dev system! Also a form of Arbitrage.
But here it’s not what they do and the delay is on themselves.
I got trap into this unfortunately, they launched maintenance windows every weekends as from last one until the 2 next week.
Ofc withdraws are blocked during the called maintenance slots.
Today they opened it again so I requested the first one. The plan is to get off the boat as soon as I can.
i need advice here if anyone would be generous enough.
i am actually new to this world of trading and i am stilll eager to learn. i have placed my money here and there. i am trading forex on few of the Indonesian local brokers.
And just so happens i also put some money on this ATG 4 months ago. my account balance on pantheratrade has gained about 100% ever since i joined and i haven’t withdraw any yet.
now, reading through this site got me worried about this robot trading program but at the same time i am also FOMO haha.
so can anyone tell me if i should continue or ditch this?
obviously i am gonna keep researching and asking around about this.
Dumping money in scams != trading
Read the review and make your own decision regarding your finances.
Congratulations on doubling your account 🙂 Withdraw your initial investment and continue trading with your profits is what I would do.
Thieves gonna thief.
Last week I was this question to Pantheratrade support….
They answer to me this…
all week my withdrawal status was pending and eventually canceled. and today I am waiting for the withdrawal.
I have a screenshot of closed stores if anyone wants to Mail. they were in plus 143 USD, and they closed the store only in plus 67 USD, at that time MT4 showed a plus of 122 USD …. something is wrong with them.
Tony, it’s the same situation for everyone everyday. You see the benefit into the live mt4 that does not reflect the end benefits you receive on your account. I believe they take their part in this gap.
About the withdraw, it eventually got cancelled because they announced a so called ‘maintenance’ during the weekend between Jan and mid Feb.
One of mine that I requested on a Thursday got cancelled too on Friday, I requested again on Tuesday morning and received it later in the week.
But of course they do not respect the possibility to withdraw everyday between weekend… for the last 3 weeks I could withdraw once a week only.
So far my goal is to get off the boat as quick as I can, which seems possible for the moment.
After that that’s not my problem anymore and such platform won’t get any of my concern in the future… I’m done with all this shit.
They are not giving any money back since 2/2/2022.
If you try they says today withdrawal is limited please try again tomorrow or withdrawal is deactivated please try later this happens every day.
What to do now ???? Secondly nor reply of support ticket they just close the support ticket.
Bit hard for me to confirm a collapse on this one due to language-barriers and the way it’s set up.
Do you have evidence of your withdrawal problems?
What can you do? You gave money to randoms over the internet and now it’s gone. Sorry for your loss.
Apparently they pay but you need to request your withdrawal at the right moment.
In a french forum i’ve seen a guy saying it work best if you request between 2h and 5h AM Europe time.
They say they will use crypto very soon for deposits and withdrawals through an indonesian exchanger.
They have already put out documents to teach the members to use crypto for transactions.
Uh, from the review:
Wasn’t AutoTrade Gold already using crypto?
so far i have only been told to use crypto for transactions, until now. Withdrawals always just been through the panthetrade website.
though im not sure if other members have used the crypto payments before because in the telegram group everyone just keeps talking about withdrawals from pantheratrade website.
they plan on 18th march they will implement transactions using crypto.
Yeah, those are in crypto right?
If they were in USD then that’s news to me. It also means AutoTrade Gold has lost its banking channels (fraud detected).
no the pantheratrade website wasn’t transacted in crypto. because ive been requesting withdrawals in USD amounts.
only now they are trying to teach to use crypto.
but from the review it says it uses crypto payments all along?
Yeah I was tracking the investments. Wasn’t aware withdrawals were made in USD.
If there’s been no issue with USD withdrawals and only now they’re switching them to crypto, that’s a sign they’ve lost their banking channels. It happens when banks detect suspicious activity and file SARs.
If things continue to decline, we might see a token issued. Or they’ll just shut up shop.
they once mentioned a plan to make a coin for transaction purpose, a “fixed rate” coin called PTH.
Crypto for deposit and withdrawals is nothing new and has already been used on this Digital Trading bot since over a year for international members.
Traders in Indonesia (where the company is based) had the choice to make transfers using Crypto or bank transfers.
They stopped using bank transfers as the Indonesian 3rd party payment gateways were always reaching their daily cash limits.
Moving to USDT (and LTC, BTC) will solve that issue. The company is fully licensed in Indonesia with Bappebti (CoFTRA) and other governmental agencies.
You can find their CoFTRA licenses back on the Indonesian government websites and are available for everyone to see.
This review is outdated by the way as lots has changed over the last 1-2 months.
Today I was added to a Telegram Channel (no idea how they got my contact details) multi-miners, and it has more red flags than the Soviet Union.
They also have old messages identifying themselves as Excel Investment Company and it seems that the main market is South America (they share video testimonies in which people “thank MMIC for the blessings and for providing an opportunity in Crypto”)
@John
That’s not a thing. Payment processors and banks love money.
Detection of fraud sees accounts closed. Banks and processors typically give a company 30 days notice of account closure. Which appears to be what’s happened here.
Forcing everyone onto crypto is an attempt to hide fraud and circumvent financial regulations.
Securities in Indonesia are regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Otoritas Jasa Keuangan) (OJK). CoFTRA registration = meaningless.
Feel free to provide filed audited financial reports. We both know there aren’t any because AutoTrade Gold, Panthera Trade and Pansaka are scams.
@Carlos
Panthera Trade’s second largest source of website traffic is Mexico. It’s probably spreading there.
Recruitment in the US has completely collapsed. Indonesia remains the primary market for new victims.
If their processors in Indonesia have filed fraud reports, that explains why AutoTrade Gold want to look like they’re active elsewhere.
@Oz
According to the Indonesian laws, OJK (Financial Services Authority ) is authorized only for stock exchange and other financial services, while Bappebti ( Commodity Futures Trading Regulatory Agency) is the one authorized for commodities trade ( gold, crypto, etc.).
And? Securities fall under “financial services”.
If AutoTrade Gold isn’t registered with OJK they are committing securities fraud. OJK registration and filing of audited financial reports is what matters.
The fraudulent investment scheme is the issue here, not the medium used to commit securities fraud.
On the website similarweb wich is much more accurate than Alexa, their main trafic come from indonesia 55% then France 26% then USA 3,49% then Réunion (a french island) 3,46% etc…
Indonesia and France have always been their main markets. The trafic is growing strong the last few 3 months.
Over the years I’ve found Alexa pretty accurate for MLM. At least as far as plotting promotion and rise/falls of recruitment against website traffic. Can’t speak to anything else as that’s all I’ve used it for.
That said I know Amazon is shutting Alexa down on May 1st. I think they’ve already begun to wind down so that’s probably affecting accuracy.
I was going to go looking at what the alternatives are sometime next month. Will probably switch to SimilarWeb having looked at it.
Probably be a few months transition as I adjust to a different set of statistics to track.
ox pls stop ur nonsense comment and sounds like pseudo expert here . from ur comment I knw u know nothing about pansaka ,panthera and ARTG ATC – period .. I hv invested I got no problem with WD ,infect I WD near usd 100k so far.
How much you stole through AutoTrade Gold doesn’t make it any less of a scam.
Please spend some of your ill-gotten gains on literacy classes. Thanks.
ooof these triggered comments are getting interesting wkwkwk
Please give us your name. The victims will need it to sue you to get some of their money back once the unregulated Autotrade gold fakebroker ponzi scam will collapse and stop paying.
Since February I have been trying to withdraw but I have received nothing.
Is pantheratrade a scam?
They are ongoing the final push, with 50$ withdray fees and a 7% day. LMAO.
@Mwai
Panthera Trade was a scam from day one. You not being able to withdraw is only the end of the scam.
what is the status of your withdraw in the system ?
some are able to withdraw lately.. is this some kind of false hope? wkwk
how is the one in france doing?? anyone here using the robot in france?
Yes usually they keep paying a few small requests to let people still have hope so that some assholes will continue to recruit new victims.
The frenchs have problems withdrawing as well. you can check what people are saying on the forum “maniabook.argentmania” you can use Chrome to translate, the admins have classified it with the rank “Suspicious”.
Hi im from indonesia, the owner of this ponzi scheme is already flew away. I have been monitoring all the MIB, IB, and “upliners”.
We’re getting ready to taking down this scheme and hunt all their leader.
In this since August ‘21 no withdrawals to date.
To X. Apparently you know who the owner of thies onzi scheme is. Care to share his name?
You also say “We’re getting ready to taking down this scheme”. Care to share who the “we”in this sentence?
In the mean time it is clear that Panthera Trade has not been taken down. It still trades. The withdrawal method via Legocoins is not used anymore because Legocoins crashed.
They promised withdrawal in USDT in the near future. I wait for that and will believe it when it works.
ATG 5.0 seems to be licenced:
Centralized Crypto exchange dedicated to trading robots Pantheratrade. Certified by the Ministry of Commerce of the Republic of Indonesia (Bappebti).
See pdki-indonesia.dgip.go.id/detail/IPT2022005200?type=trademark&keyword=ATG
I was going to let the first comment slide… but then you had to follow up with more nonsense.
A dead Ponzi scheme with an active website and bullshit trade data is still a dead Ponzi.
As per #79 above, AutoTrade Gold collapsed mid 2021. Sorry for your loss.
You linked to some intellectual property filing. That has nothing to do with registration with financial regulators. It’s even more meaningless than basic incorporation.
Securities in Indonesia are registered by the Financial Services Authority. AutoTrade Gold is not registered with the FSA.
ATG and its associated shell companies aren’t registered to offer securities in any jurisdiction.
Thanks for your prompt and very friendly reaction.
In the mean time me and my friends are awaiting more positive news from Panthera Trade in the near future.
The perfect marks.
You and your friends got scammed. Sorry for your loss.
Imagine you are so slow to the game you come in a year later oblivious.
True. I stepped in 6 months ago after a friend of me who sold her jewelry and car to be able to invest, had again all her jewelry and car and more then $100.000 in Panthera Trade.
She, in my opinion was NOT scammed. I know several friend who also made a lot of money.
I find many sites on Google stating that Panthera Trade / LegoMarket is a scam. My friends who have already withdrawn all they invested and still continue with their additional profit, show otherwise.
True it looks like scam (incorporation in disrepute countries, ongoing difficulties with their website resulting in no possibility to invest or withdraw. But that is not a proof a scam. It is an indication of a possible or probable scam.
Again before their management completely botched up the release of their new website, resulting in people who withdrew money to get the money twice, they closed withdrawals, fired the manager and are now slowly releasing the new website function by function.
The new withdrawal function is planned for the end of this month. GIve them time to mid September (plans tend to be more often optismistic than pessimistic).
If mid September I still cannot withdraw I will begin to seriously wonder if you were right. If I can withdraw by then I wonder if all posters on this site who claim for months now, will apologize …
Sounds more like a Reboot
How the fact they operate illegally, unaudited and already collapsed before is *NOT* an indication of it being a scam to you somehow I don’t really understand though.
Are you that desperate?
This isn’t rocket science.
MLM + securities fraud = Ponzi scheme.
All that means is new victims were recruited into the scam, from whom you’ve now stolen (as your funds were stolen by your friends who recruited you).
AutoTrade Gold is a Ponzi scheme in which the majority of investors are guaranteed to lose money. Whether you personally manage to steal from others is neither here nor there.
I do not see MLM practice in Panthera Trade. (Ozedit: snip, read the review)
man it’s a pantheratrade or autotradegold 5.0 is a fucking scam..
I’m Indonesian I placed my money there since mid 2021, I’ve only withdrawn a little portion of my intial deposit once on december 2021, and ever since then withdrawal issues have been up and I can’t withdraw any money.
It started with excuses from IT maintenance for delaying withdrawal, then their ATG team flew to Dubai for whatever shity purpose probably for avoiding Indonesian authorities.
Then a maximum amount of $2000 withdrawal limit, then a limit of only $100 per week, and I’ve requested my withdrawal part many times and up till now non have been paid except rejections and rejections and rejections.
I have been fooled, I applaud their hustle, I will not be fooled again by any scams hopefully.
I have exited most of their telegram and whatsapp group because I got frustrated and I can’t do shit about it, so I need to move on.
Thank you for this website though, I will keep on reading about potential scams or ponzi schemes in my spare time.
@ MarcBali if i agree with you to wait till September. can you tell me who feeded you this story to wait ? 🙂 or you are also a sales agent for this frud company that even not respond on any platform !!!
where are you hearing all these news when they don’t respond ?
There are several telegram channels, some by Panthera trade, some by customers. Progress and plans are regularly communicated. This is the Panthera channel: (Ozedit: link removed) the autotrade Gold EA Alert and there are other channels.
There are also zoom meetings With the software manager from Panthera where sometimes I get reports from.
Customers also get regularly updates of plans and progress via email from Panthera trade.
Possibly this is a scam, I fully understand that. But there are also many indicators it might not be a scam. For instance, why keeping up the pretense during many months when withdrawals and investments are impossible.
They did not do this to have more customers because investments are also blocked. Why communnicating plans, updated plans, progress, have zoom meetins with some customers during these months?
To saqib iqbal: No I am not working for Panthera. I am just another customer.
We also have a whatsapp group of which I am also member in which the group members communicate whatever news they find on telegram and other sources.
@MarcBali, Bro the part of why they are still interacting, updating, communicating, etc with customers, isn’t it obvious?
THEY ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT MORE FOOLS LIKE ME TO JOIN AND ROB THEIR MONEY. Marcbali bro di dunia trading harapan itu ga boleh di pelihara wkwk.
It’s also obvious to me now that they are scammers because they flew to dubai which is the capital where scammers can strive (I read an article on this site explaining why Dubai is the safe haven for scammers to liveby and I also grew up in UAE as an expat and knew about the country haha).
So fuck ATG 5.0, fuck the people who are working with them, I have moved on from that investment I just hope the rest of the current atg believers realize that they have been scammed and need to accept it and learn from it and move on and possibly warn others not to join.
They’ve not been recruiting since the maintenance started. The signup page and referral links are no longer active. They will make these active again when things are back to normal.
They’re also not asking for members to deposit fresh funds (not even possible even at the moment) and they are no longer enforcing account limits.
If they are scammers then they must be charity scammers because they are paying out more withdrawals (still breadcrumbs) than they are chasing fresh funds.
Be less desperate.
Was a scam.
Still a scam.
Will always be a scam.
To AntiMLM: You remind my of the story of the apostles (Ozedit: derail waffle removed)
Oh shutup. Your Ponzi has collapsed, take the L and move on.
You waxing lyrical about pseudo-religious “Not believing what’s in front of them” is exactly what you are doing.
You follow the preachings of false prophets disregarding the damage they have done.
Hey guys, I just read the whole thread. Regardless of whether this is a ponzi or not, is anyone still able to withdraw their funds, or has it been completey impossible since February 2022?
To Raffi Doumanian: Not yet possible.
An email sent by Panthera Trade on August. 16th, explains that more testing is necessary before the next release.
Truth or lie? (This question is not meant to illicit 100 of angry replies but just to explain my feeling).
AutoTrade, Panthera Trade and Pansaka are scams. Everything is a lie to get you to lose more money.
Honestly I am not here to get emotional, I don’t know why people here are easily triggered. I’m sure that 99.999% I won’t be able to withdraw anything but it doesn’t hurt to pop in once in a while and ask.
Another question: I found a site called (removed) and they claim they can help you get your money back from ATG, is this legit?
Anyone who isn’t law enforcement or a regulator claiming they can “get your money back” from scams is running a recovery scam.
They’ll promise you recovery and the script will begin. Eventually they’ll ask for a fee. You pay the fee and get double-scammed.
To Raffi: In this (for once) I agree with OZ. Most of these socalled recovery sites are scams themselves.
Hahhahahah this is hilarious, I assumed it would be something like this. Okay thanks, I’ll save my time
How did you come to the correct conclusion that these recovery sites are scams? Have you had experience with these sites? Or was it just common sense?
Btw, ALL (not most) of them are scams.
It is interesting that you understand that they are scams yet you cannot grasp the fact that your program is indeed a Ponzi scam.
Nah, it isn’t being triggered. We simply do not sugar-coat the facts.
When we inform people why they are not able to withdraw anything and they can’t accept the facts, that is something they have to deal with.
Finally I’ve found an interesting discussion about ATG, thanks to this website. Based in Belgium, I got informed through different and unofficial sources but most of the time pro ATG.
Which does not help being realistic and move on eventually. However, is anyone got serious information since your last messages? In a way or another?
“Serious information”?
ATG is a Ponzi scheme. That’s not going to change.
Marc as we are now in October I guess by now you were able to withdraw and everyone owes you an apology?
So, indeed I begin to seriously wonder if you were right. But I am still hoping (I am Belgian too like the original poster and we have a saying “Hope gives/makes life”.
Latest news from 1 week ago:
As I said before: Yes, it can be a scam. But there are still several indications that they are still working on getting there act together.
There is also other news: Panthera trade is under police investigation since April.
The news said:
Today is 7 October: Later I will look at the Panthera Web site and see what has changed
To Caroline,
I am Belgian too. The ATG and ATC trading brings incredible profits, but since March it is not possible to withdraw.
I suggest you do NOT invest until this problem is completely solved.
The “profits” is just stealing money of people who invested after you.
All Ponzi schemes collapse, which is what you’re seeing play out.
How many people who are customers and know the system have already told you how many times it is NOT a Ponzi scheme?
In addition: The profits cannot be from the people who invested after me: it is not only withdrawals that are impossible.
As far as I know also investments are not possible. But I think investments are maybe again possible now …
ATG’s business model is a Ponzi scheme.
Why would anyone listen to dumb fucks who don’t understand basic mathematics over reality?
The penny will drop one day. One day…
What strategies do ponzi scammers plan to do once they go international? anyone care to explain or share a link to read about?
Go international = recruit more victims to keep the Ponzi going a bit longer.
@Marc, I invested a year and a half ago too late for me too. We are on the same “news” channels, thanks for your reply.
Oz must be right, all the lights are red. This pyramid organisation, with a sponsor you know and trust completely (my sponsor =my sales manager, half the team followed.
A lot of blah blah blah with PowerPoint and figures), and the rest is history. But the CEO is identifiable, and it’s been almost a year, how will “Kenzo” get out of this?
I’m certain Bernie Madoff’s friends and family that supported his Ponzi scam for 17 years would like to have a chat with you about how to identify scams – “has been running for a year” is chicken feed.
To Caroline: I have never identified this a pyramid construction.
I have never asked to bring new customers. I don’t know of any incentive scheme to bring new customers. Have you gotten incentives?
Scroll up cuh.
I like it when the Ponzi scammers lampoon themselves.
Getting a bad smell from the sniff test,like Marc and Caroline are a shill team trying their darndest to get the scam to run longer
It’s a unilevel MLM incentive scheme with multiple levels whether you realize or not. It’s also a Ponzi by design.
@Marc: sponsors have rebates apparently, and mine was very insistent that I tell my friends about this “great investment”. Fortunately, I didn’t.
This is the first time I’ve read a discussion that makes sense and where those who express doubts are not insulted. So thank you all, pro or con Ponzi schemes:)
That’s correct but not unusual as almost every broker has a rebate and referral program. IcMarkets has them, CMC Markets, Oanda …
Not sure why you would thank anyone who is “pro” ponzi scheme…They are low life scammers who try to “con” you and your friends out of money.
It is rather ironic that there are “pro” ponzi scheme scumbags who are ex-CONS as they served time in prison for ponzi based crimes.
By taking the money and running. It’s unlikely to be difficult to disappear in Indonesia.
One plane ticket to Dubai and the prospect of his being collared by either the US or Indonesian authorities reduces to zero.
This is assuming he isn’t a patsy.
It does seem easy to disappear…
Saying thank you to the “pros” was ironic and a way of saying that anywhere else on the web, it’s impossible not to be insulted and no constructive discussion can take place.
Yes I am angry and I feel stupid, naive, to have fallen into this trap. No need to tackle me, I just find real arguments here that have taken away my last doubts of seeing my money again.
Fair enough.
Yes generally Toxic Positivity is the only thing allowed in the “follower” groups. This site is more neutral as long as you don’t try bullshitting without evidence or come with hollow arguments.
Correct, and this was the reason thanking you. Time to accept the truth, move on and forget we are powerless.
Something new with ATG….?
Withdrawal is currently disabled, Please visit again later.
That’s the message on pathera trade website for past 6 months.
To Maddy,
Yes disabled and i believe will be like this forever.
Thank god i did withdraw many times when everything was working so i will not lose anything….. loose the interest i’ve made since stop working but my capital and interest gained before is in my bank.
I am not so lucky 🙁 . Just heard that the police investigation SP3 is still going on.
Thank god i did withdraw many times when everything was working so i will not lose anything….. loose the interest i’ve made since stop working but my capital and interest gained before is in my bank.
yea I wasn’t lucky myself… lost all what I deposited because never I never withdraw a considerable portion of profits, I just let it compound thinking it was the smartest idea hahaha…
but ever since this whole ATG scam, something triggered in me to learn and build my own algorithm for trading gold..
now I have a pretty good algorithm system for trading metals, forex, and crypto. It took me hours and hours to backtest and forwardtest countless algo strategy. I actually feel grateful ATG happened 🙂
The losers are whoever trusted to invest money with ATG.
The clever losers are those who only invested what they can afford to lose. The dumbest losers are those who went all in with ATG.
There are no clever loses in a Ponzi scheme. Math is math.
Latest news I heard regarding the SP3 police investigation: ”
This might explain why it takes so long to implement withdrawal. Corruption in Indonesia is rampant. A friend of mine is in jail more than 6 months while his lawyer is negotiating with the authorities about his release.
Indonesia is a beautiful country with lots of positive points. But t is certainly not perfect.
latest news:
2 days ago my friend went to Phanteras Teknology Office building in Jakarta and they told him that soon the investors will receive an email with instruction on how to activate the new Panthera…. lets see.
Some already received the email.
Good news if true, Is it possible to put a copy of that email in this discusion?
Sorry i do not have the email.
Panthera said to my friend that they already issued some email.
whe need to find a good lawyer.
I suggested the same already a long time ago. Friends counseled not to do it. If we do we all lose more money to pay the lawyer.
The outcome can be either:
1. The company wins which is certainly a possibility because the owner is VERY rich and in Indonesia the courts are very corrupt
2. The company loses and goes bankrupt. Also, then we won’t see any money.
As long as they exist there is very slim possibility, they can finally reach an understanding with the government about how to tax the crypto benefits, how to implement the withdrawals and how to get all necessary licenses and permits.
Get real. Your money is gone. This is a blatant Ponzi and you have lost your investment.
The company is operating illegally in every country it is doing business. Hard to believe a company that is operating illegally could win in court, but only an attorney can determine if there is a case.
So, if I already lost my money in this scam I should now lose more money by paying a lawyer?
Maybe it is hard for you to believe that such a company could win in court. It shows you have no idea how courts operate in Indonesia.
If you want legal advice then yeah, you need to see a lawyer.
Gotta love Ponzi investors. Will readily throw money into scams and lose it.
The same dumbasses: wHy DoN’t LaWyErS wOrK fOr FrEe?
I never said I did. I was just pointing out the obvious that it would be hard for an illegal company to win in court claiming it was legal. As I said, only an attorney in your country can answer your question.
Either understand you lost it all, or pay an attorney to see if you could possibly get some of it back. Only an attorney can tell you what your chances are of winning. There may be attorneys in your country that will give you a free 30 minute consultation.
I have on the other hand worked with law enforcmment officials in Indonesia assisting them in their investigations, getting these type of illegal companies shut down; and getting them to court to stand trial, and the perps were convicted
Have you filed a criminal complaint with the Indonesian authorities? If not, why not?.
Others have filed a criminal complaint and it is under review since April of May. Indeed several of these illegal companies have been shut down.
So, the question is: why is Panthera (as one of the largest of these companies) not shut down and still negotiating with the government on how to implement taxation and withdrawal.
My opinion is that the police can’t determine the per’s because no name appears officially linked to the robot?
I don’t want to lose any more money on this joke by paying a lawyer, who will tell us that he can’t do anything because we knew that ATG was not regulated.
However, I don’t want to sit back and do nothing either. Maybe we could put our ideas together and create a group?
A competent regulator would just round up the top promoters and work up from there.
Regulators in south-east Asia aren’t the best at tackling MLM Ponzi schemes. Expecting much after the fact unless complaints are filed is pushing it.
ATG was very much regulated under securities law, regardless of which country you’re in.
To Caroline:
The robot is sold by a company Pansaka. There seems to be links between Panthera, Pansaka and an Indonesian called Wahyu Kenzo who is a very successful (read rich) business man. So, the names are known to everybody including the police.
The bot last trading was on the 29th of November.
Well my robot other one i don’t know.
To Renato:
Last thursday I heard maintenance on MT4 till Sunday. Monady everything OK.
Today I hear: MT4 can’t be op yet, because it’s still a process of synchronized data to the main server..from MT4 and v3….
the length of the process is because it involves hundreds of thousands of members’ personal data with a fantastic amount of funds so you need to be careful so that the results are accurate. we just wait until the process is complete
MarcBall, what a load of BS. Exit scam in full view. Amazing how credit card companies can process millions of members and trillions of dollars in nanoseconds and these idiots want you to believe they can’t handle a few hundreds of thousands members and their money?
Nest up will be a server error that is causing the delay, or they found an error in the code and it has to be fixed before payments can resume, or some other excuse they can dream up that sounds plausible to the members.
hahahaha why are you guys still having hope?
they been saying maintenance bullshit since early this year, january or February.
just give it up and accept you lost lol. they won and took advantage of your stupid judgement. move on and learn your mistakes, make money somewhere else.
if you guys are still young its good ATG happend. many many lessons I gained from this.
and if you guys are old and don’t have time then hahaha, you wasted your youth being stupid, just wait for the next life lol. not gonna be worth fighting for what you lost.
To Foogi:
I do not waste time on this i just check every now and again
As i said before i did put some money but i also withdrawn much much much more than i invested so i will not loose anything even if i can’t withdraw anymore….. but of course this is a pain in the arse.
Hope is the last thing to die maybe get lucky maybe not
To MarBali:
Lets wait.
I dont even check up on ATG since so long, unlike some people looking at mt4 ATG bot once in a while. though I only been receiving notifications on emails for these comments.. its interesting to see the comments to be honest, but i just can’t help making fun of the hopeful believers.
on the other hand I open mt4 to work on my own algorithm.. which is amazing :).
To Renato: You are lucky you could withdraw (more than) your investment. I started investment in Februari this year and 1 month later the problems began.
What other choice than lets wait do we have 🙂
To MarcBali:
I started on April 2021 so i had about 10 months of it before problems started.
Yesterday ( 07/12/22 ) my robot started trading again and twice.
good job for checking it up and feeling the unnecessary emotions you are probably having hahaha.
To Foogi:
No emotion whatsoever.
how can whe contact autorite?
Typically through their website.
@Dom
To do what ??
cry in your mistakes lazy people, cry.
keep at it with chasing that lost cause, keep at it. you have not learn your lesson, you prolly never will.
Gains are only earned by worthy people, indeed you are not one. hahaha.
I can’t stop laughing always inventing something:
I can’t stop laughing always inventing something
Anyone who still believes in ATG lives in La La Land. That Dr Francois is the biggest numbskull of all the ATG Zombies.
Investors: ” just gonna stand there and watch me burn? ”
ATG: ” yes ”
Investors: ” Well, that’s alright, because I like the way it hurts. ”
ATG: ” good to know ”
Investors: ” Just gonna stand there and hear me cry? ”
ATG: ” yes dumb bitches”
Investors: ” Well, that’s alright, because I love the way you lie, I love the way you lie ”
ATG: ” life is sweet ”
The CEO of Wahyu Kenzo arrested.
on the bright side for him, he has a nice pyjama now.
youtu.be/olW2ZtvSIg8
Indeed seems to be all over Indonesian news, fantastic!
cnnindonesia.com/nasional/20230308160903-12-922507/crazy-rich-wahyu-kenzo-tersangka-robot-trading-raup-rp9-triliun
cnbcindonesia.com/market/20230308155508-17-420005/ini-dia-crazy-rich-wahyu-kenzo-yang-nipu-pakai-robot-trading
tvonenews.com/daerah/jatim/105928-sebelum-ditangkap-ternyata-crazy-rich-wahyu-kenzo-suka-pamer-hidup-hedon-di-media-sosial
This one had a lot of apologists IIRC. Will cover tomorrow, thanks for the leg-work!
yes! get rekt ATG believers!!! hahahahaha…