PonziTracker TelexFree May 2nd bankruptcy hearing live
Our thanks to PonziTracker for live updates on what’s going on inside the court room as the TelexFree bankruptcy hearing takes place. Note that additional sources/reporting may appear below.
- 12:20 P.M.: U.S. Trustee just filed amended declaration of Sheriff’s Deputy with color copies of checks seized from former CFO Joe Craft.
- 12:25 P.M.: More motions appear on docket. One is request for admittance to practice in Nevada Bankruptcy court by an attorney representing two “creditors.” Docket may be quite crowded if all creditors’ counsel follow suit.
- 12:35 P.M.: Hearing appears to be close to starting.
- 12:44 P.M.: Participants asked to turn off cell phones. Hearing beginning.
- 12:47 P.M.: Court in session. 14 Matters before the Court.
- 12:50 P.M.: Attorney introductions starting.
- 12:51 P.M.: Gordon Silver and Greenberg Traurig for TelexFree. One GT lawyer is out in hall working on “late developments.”
- 12:52 P.M.: SEC wants to approach bench to discuss “late developments” and provide Court with documents. SEC will consent to District Court entering final orders and judgments for motions except to First Day Motions (if it gets that far)
- 12:54 P.M.: Late development appears to be related to SEC’s belief that this case should not be Chapter 11 case. Reading between the lines, could be Chapter 7 case (liquidation)
- 12:54 P.M.: Attorneys for at least two sets of victims making appearances.
- 12:55 P.M.: “Late-breaking developments” have emerged. Attorneys to brief court.
- 12:55 P.M.: Debtor’s attorney handed civil forfeiture action appearing to be commenced by U.S. Attorney’s Office. His attorney’s belief is that not appropriate to talk about at the moment. Party that sought civil forfeiture action does not appear to be before court, so TelexFree attorney says is not appropriate to discuss.
- 12:57 P.M.: TelexFree counsel says papers appear to be subpoenas and warrants in connection with civil forfeiture action commenced by U.S. Attorneys Office. Concern is over evidentiary nature of papers. Counsel doesn’t believe it impacts today’s proceedings. Thinks it is “unfair” to have SEC say this impacts motions before the Court.
- 12:55 P.M.: Debtor’s attorney handed civil forfeiture action appearing to be commenced by U.S. Attorney’s Office. His attorney’s belief is that not appropriate to talk about at the moment. Party that sought civil forfeiture action does not appear to be before court, so TelexFree attorney says is not appropriate to discuss.
- 12:57 P.M.: TelexFree counsel says papers appear to be subpoenas and warrants in connection with civil forfeiture action commenced by U.S. Attorneys Office. Concern is over evidentiary nature of papers. Counsel doesn’t believe it impacts today’s proceedings. Thinks it is “unfair” to have SEC say this impacts motions before the Court. Or “this collective effort by the Government to shut us down will kill us.”
- 12:59 P.M.: SEC counsel says Court can take judicial notice. Says there was civil and criminal forfeiture action. 26 warrants in support of forfeiture acts, have all been filed.
- 1:00 P.M.: SEC says they are asset forfeiture actions, do not violate automatic stay under Chapman (cited by TelexFree). These actions seized all known assets for debtors, including cashier’s checks.
- 1:01 P.M.: Anything subject to debtor’s estate has been seized by U.S. Attorney’s Office.
- 1:02 P.M.: Court will not consider papers in connection with rulings on pending matters.
Judge: “It is my intention to rule on all matters, in open court by Monday at the latest”. Will work on orders over the weekend. Judge will not delay anything. Doesn’t mind if proceedings are in Massachusetts or Nevada.
- 1:02 P.M.: Court will not consider papers in connection with rulings on pending matters, and not inclined to take papers into evidence. Judge now reviewing papers.
- 1:03 P.M.: Warrants were apparently under seal. Court says record will not include this, and won’t be considered as evidence. Reviewed simply to be mindful of actions going on in Massachusetts court.
- 1:04 P.M.: Court will take short break – about 15 minutes – to review documents. Court will hear SEC’s Motion for Change of Venue first. Notice of Hearing regarding abstention second. Debtors’ motion for scope of TRO next. Then U.S. Trustee’s Motion for Appointment of Trustee will be heard. If there is time, First-Day Motions will be heard. Court doubtful to be able to rule today. But will rule on all matters that will be appropriate to resolve by Monday at the latest. Debtor needs to know, as well as other people. Court will not delay in resolving issues. Resolution thus likely at beginning of next week.
- 1:06 P.M.: Massachusetts sheriff’s deputy is present by phone, Court says he does not need to appear unless there are plans to cross-examine deputy. Court will adjourn and reconvene at 1:25 P.M.
- 1:25 P.M.: Looks to be getting underway shortly.
- 1:27 P.M.: Court in session. Court reviewed documents, issued in Massachusetts District Court on April 24, 2014 and unsealed recently (today?). Copies are not certified or authenticated. Court does not take judicial notice, and won’t consider as evidence today.
- 1:30 P.M.: TelexFree counsel says that, if you transfer this case, stay motion has to be heard to decide whether debtor lives or dies.
- 1:31 P.M.: Court will proceed first with motion to transfer venue.
Particulars of hearing the first motion are being sorted.
- 1:34 P.M.: TelexFree wants to have evidence heard first, Court agrees as does SEC. SEC wants to call TelexFree officers first, U.S. Trustee wants to have sheriff’s deputy heard first.
- 1:38 P.M.: TelexFree counsel complaining of non-compliance with local rules regarding witnesses and evidence by SEC.
- 1:42 P.M.: Appears that sheriff’s deputy will not testify, and his declaration and amended declaration will be admitted into evidence.
- 1:48 P.M.: More evidentiary housekeeping. Counsel for TelexFree opposes admission of SEC affidavit because affiant is not available to testify.
- 1:52 P.M.: Argument continuing over admission of evidence and submission of witness/exhibit lists.
- 1:53 P.M.: Court recognizes flexibility of local rules when matters on shortened time, will not admit one of the declarations as hearsay, other will be allowed to testify as he is available.
- 1:57 P.M.: Going over admission of exhibits by debtors, SEC, and U.S. Trustee.
- 2:02 P.M.: U.S. Trustee objects to exhibit 21, which is exchange of emails contained in MacMillan declaration regarding $38 million in cashier’s checks seized. Exhibits 1-20 will come in. Exhibit 21 will be subject to developing testimony, will remain out.
- 2:07 P.M.: Witness testimony is up next.
- 2:10 P.M.: Now to order of witness testimony. Witnesses remaining to be called are William Runge, Stuart McMillan, and Timothy Meighan on rebuttal.
William Runge (testimony)
- 2:10 P.M.: First witness will be William Runge. Runge is Chief Restructuring Office of TelexFree. Works with Alvarez & Marshal.
- 2:13 P.M.: Covering Runge’s background and C.V. Runge has been doing this for 22 years.
- 2:15 P.M.: Initially contacted by TelexFree attorneys on April 9, 2014 to interview for position. Interviewed the next day with Wanzeler, Merrill, and McMillan. Was engaged later that afternoon on the 10th. Understood role was to assist through bankruptcy and guide company through Chapter 11 process.
- 2:17 P.M.: Meighan is also A&M employee, working with Runge to understand business, locate assets, and develop business plan.
- 2:19 P.M.: Debtor had 6 bank accounts, 5 brokerages, and 6 or more merchant accounts. Wells Fargo had informed TelexFree it was closing account and asked it to come pick up Cashiers Check in amount of $26 million.
- 2:20 P.M.: Understood additional 9-10 checks existed. Said debtor had difficulties maintaining relationships with banks.
- 2:21 P.M.: Made arrangements for Craft to pick up cashier’s checks and deposit into newly-established escrow account. Meighan was arranging to go with Craft to deposit checks.
- 2:24 P.M.: Attempting to provide foundation for entry of Exhibit 21 (emails regarding cashier’s checks). Says federal government seized Meighan’s email, imaged hard drive, and returned.
- 2:25 P.M.: Checks were collected from Merrill and Wanzeler Monday morning with intention of placing in safe deposit box.
- 2:26 P.M.: Checks never placed into safe deposit box. Says Craft was tied up and delayed in depositing checks that Monday.
- 2:28 P.M.: Runge got called by Meighan and told they were preparing to leave office, but were stopped by federal agent and belongings were seized.
- 2:31 P.M.: U.S. Trustee objects to admission of Exhibit 21, says Meighan is there to testify and can be put on.
- 2:34 P.M.: Court sustains objection to introduction of Exhibit 21 based on hearsay, Runge can still testify as to personal knowledge.
- 2:36 P.M.: No reason to believe Mr. Craft was trying to steal checks. Exhibit 21 offered in its entirety into evidence. Court still sustains objection to entering Exhibit 21 into evidence, but Mr. Meighan will be allowed to testify to remove hearsay issues.
- 2:39 P.M.: Runge says there is a business here to reorganize, a VoIP business where bundled minutes are sold. Phone service is “partially” working. When TRO was filed and assets (servers) were seized, service stopped. Company was eventually able to get partial service working.
- 2:41 P.M.: Have had discussions with U.S. Attorney’s Office over retrieving servers.
- 2:43 P.M.: Some customers have been able to make long distance calls. TelexFree not able to accept credit cards or any funds, nor in position to sell phone service. Website is partially running. Sole function of website is to provide information to 700,000 promoters.
- 2:45 P.M.: Runge thinks it would take matter of weeks to come up with new business plan. Asked about whether bankruptcy is better or worse than marshaling assets for benefit of creditors. Multiple objections.
- 2:47 P.M.: New compensation consultant retained, has been working with MacMillan on compensation. No further questions. SEC to cross-examine.
William Runge (cross-examination by SEC)
- 2:49 P.M.: Runge says not aware why banks shut down TelexFree. Runge hasn’t encountered such a situation before.
- 2:52 P.M.: Runge didn’t authorize Craft to tell agents he was consultant, or for Craft to put checks in briefcase and walk out.
- 2:54 P.M.: Court preparing to break for lunch. Looking for input from parties as to likelihood of completion of hearing in afternoon session. Parties believe so.
- 4:18 P.M.: Instructions given to turn off cell phones. Proceedings to begin soon. Before they do, please feel free to click the donate button at the bottom of the screen, and any donations are much appreciated. The cost to connect to the hearing is $30/hr.
- 4:27 P.M.: Technical difficulties interrupt Runge’s testimony.
- 4:30 P.M.: Runge expecting chargebacks from creditcard processors as result of bankruptcy.
- 4:32 P.M.: Cross-examining Runge about his declaration. He admits that, of the debtors, only one had direct employees.
- 4:33 P.M.: Merrill and Wanzeler hired MacMillan, who hired Runge. Neither Merrill nor Wanzeler currently employed by Debtors, but remain sole shareholders.
- 4:36 P.M.: As of bankruptcy filing, Runge estimates balance in Debtors’ accounts: $31 million in bank accounts, $28 million in brokerage accounts, and close to $30 million with payment processors. None of these accounts located in bank located in Nevada.
- 4:38 P.M.: Runge was working at company headquarters until raid, and then moved back to Georgia. No duties performed in Nevada.
- 4:39 P.M.: Runge being questioned about company’s questions to Nevada. As far as Runge knows, only connection is papers on file with Nevada government and a mailbox.
- 4:42 P.M.: SEC lawyer grilling Runge methodically to prove lack of ties to Nevada, as well as offices of professionals employed by TelexFree.
- 4:44 P.M.: Runge being questioned about TelexFree’s business and compensation plan. Learned state of Massachusetts was investigating around April 10, 2014 – 5 days before charges were filed.
- 4:45 P.M.: Asked whether TelexFree could have upgraded its computer systems due to revenues received from purported significant growth, without entering bankruptcy.
- 4:47 P.M.: Point made that company had already changed its compensation plan once without filing for bankruptcy.
- 4:49 P.M.: Company had computer system that managed payment information referred to as back office that was hard to get information out of.
- 4:51 P.M.: Books Runge reviewed showed that $1 billion in revenue came in the door in 2013.
- 4:53 P.M.: Runge’s firm was in the process of imaging TelexFree’s systems as the company’s headquarters were raided on April 15, 2014.
- 4:54 P.M.: Discussing TelexFree’s issues with Brazil. Understood Brazilian government shut it down. Runge thinks Brazilian government thought it was some kind of scheme.
- 4:55 P.M.: Runge understands revenues from second compensation plan showed that new plan had payouts of 50-85%. Generally, need payout of 38-40%. Payout was too high. Runge disclosed this rule of thumb was from MacMillan and various consultants.
- 4:57 P.M.: Runge never reviewed marketing materials and what TelexFree was promoting. Runge is not aware of specific differences between first and second compensation plan.
- 5:00 P.M.: Promoters tried to withdraw $174 million in payments after rule change, which was much higher than normal. Company did not (honor) majority of payment requests.
- 5:01 P.M.: Company became aware some individuals had multiple accounts, sometimes hundreds, which was forbidden under the contract. Runge doesn’t recall who told him that.
- 5:06 P.M.: Actual sales of VoIP product since March rule change are unknown. $100,000 to $300,000 per day in revenue coming in, according to Runge, after rule change.
- 5:08 P.M.: Runge reluctant to speculate about future of contracts with Promoters ir whether all or specific amount will be deemed valid.
- 5:10 P.M.: Prior to April 13th, Runge was not provided with estimation of total amount of contracts at stake that would seek to be rejected. SEC asks if he had heard figure of $5 billion. Runge said he had heard someone say $5 billion, but cannot remember. Says possibly from company’s prior management, but cannot recall.
- 5:13 P.M.: Runge not aware of any secured creditors, or of any potential fraudulent transfer or conveyance actions.
- 5:14 P.M.: Speaking about whether Runge agrees with fact that Debtors offer competitive product priced advantageously to competitors. Runge doesn’t know who direct competitors are to company. Seems to be trying to draw Runge into debate about price.
- 5:16 P.M.: All promoter products held in name of TelexFree, LLC. Not sure why other two debtors list same top creditors.
- 5:18 P.M.: Names of top 30 creditors were discussed among Runge and company management to confirm there were no insiders. End of SEC questioning.
William Runge (cross-examination by DoJ)
- 5:19 P.M.: MacMillan hired as consultant several weeks before company filed bankruptcy.
- 5:21 P.M.: Runge was present at board meeting immediately before bankruptcy. Wanzeler was terminated from company after it was apparent he was subject to restraining order. Says they were asked to resign.
- 5:24 P.M.: Runge was informed that company was spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buyback VoIP products from promoters.
- 5:27 P.M.: Runge not aware how many VoIP packages were sold to general public.
- 5:27 P.M.: As a result of rolling out new comp plans, company revenues declined from $3 million per day to $100,000 to $300,000 per day – a 90% decrease. Was determined that new compensation plan was not sustainable.
- 5:32 P.M.: Craft had been working with Wanzeler and Merrill for two years as a consultant.
William Runge (redirect by TelexFree)
- 5:34 P.M.: Runge has met with attorneys from Debtors’ counsel in Nevada. No more questions, witness excused.
Stuart Macmillan (testimony)
- 5:37 P.M.: Court issues warning about cellphone use.
- 5:38 P.M.: Court says that .mp3 file of testimony will be available free at some point. Ponzitracker will provide a link to that if/when it becomes available.
- 5:40 P.M.: Reviewing MacMillan C.V.
- 5:41 P.M.: Originally asked whether he wanted to be CEO, but decided he wanted to be consultant originally. Became CEO in April 2014 just before filing.
- 5:43 P.M.: MacMillan lives in Florida, and office is in Florida.
- 5:43 P.M.: Craft was assisting with bankruptcy in compiling numbers needed. Craft was then a signatory and able to open bank accounts.
- 5:44 P.M.: MacMillan is only independent board member.
- 5:45 P.M.: MacMillan and Runge decided it would be best if people named in TRO would not be officers or directrs. Craft and Merrill resigned, Wanzeler did not and was terminated.
- 5:46 P.M.: MacMillan working with another network marketing executive in compiling business plan. Have also brought in telecom consultant, as well as application creators. Trying to put together plan and looking at new products to develop strategy as well as compensation strategy.
- 5:48 P.M.: In his view, company is absolutely capable of being reorganized. Describes an app that was released and quickly rose to top 5 of apps.
- 5:49 P.M.: Would appear that minutes over network were increasing 20% each month. 14 million minutes. Last data he saw was that 80,000 to 100,000 people were using minutes.
- 5:51 P.M.: Working on short-term compensation plan. Once servers are back, should take about a month to have new compensation plan. 75% of customers are outside of United States, and are in South America, Asia, Europe, etc. Larger concertration in Western Europe, Asia, and Dominican Republic.
- 5:53 P.M.: Promoters and associates are similarly located due to pattern of selling to friends and family. Does not know what percentage of customers in Massachusetts. Has not made decision about location of headquarters going forward, but had thought about Florida.
- 5:55 P.M.: Believe that, based on 80,000 people selling 14 million minutes a month, should be in $50 million range of revenue right away. Company has received tens of thousands of phone calls from customers. Many can’t figure out why they can’t use products.
Stuart Macmillan (cross-examination by SEC)
- 5:59 P.M.: MacMillan loves network marketing.
- 6:00 P.M.: MacMillan doesn’t understanding advertising aspect, says it is inconsistent with what he understands network marketing to be. No idea of correlation between ads placed and revenue.
- 6:01 P.M.: Had no role in changing compensation plan or rolling it out.
- 6:01 P.M.: This is not first case MacMillan has heard of with SEC enforcement action involved with allegations of pyramid scheme. Understands there are things to be careful of, such as payment of commission dollars for product or service.
- 6:03 P.M.: MacMillan only aware that Wells Fargo had told TelexFree to go elsewhere, and had heard that other banks and payment processors had told TelexFree to take their business elsewhere. Happened fairly regularly with payment processors.
- 6:04 P.M.: As to $1 billion in revenue during 2013, MacMillan says he was told by Craft. Number was not broken down any further.
- 6:08 P.M.: Company currently using AMazon cloud services to operate website.
- 6:10 P.M.: Understanding is that Mr. Craft didn’t try to walk out of office with checks. Instead, his understanding is that checks were in briefcase and Mr. Craft was going to get the checks.
- 6:11 P.M.: Discussing promoter contracts. Standard form contract. Before execution of search warrant, MacMillan had never looked at the contract.
- 6:16 P.M.: Talking about backup database – what A&M were able to image before search warrant executed.
- 6:18 P.M.: Agrees that number of promoters in Nevada is less than number in Massachusetts. Suggests that data enabled MacMillan to analyze location of every customer or promoter.
- 6:20 P.M.: Company hasn’t been trying to recruit new promoters since filing.
- 6:22 P.M.: Each VoIP contract had maximum of 3,000 minutes of use per month.
- 6:23 P.M.: Comp plans are lifeblood of marketing companies. This was running “hot,” and running at 80% and did not make sense. Typically run 38% – 45%. And advertisement issue did not make sense. Did not have knowledge about breakdown between promoter purchases and third-party purchases.
- 6:25 P.M.: MacMillan doesn’t have a problem with promoters using commission money to purchase VoIP products. SEC lawyer questions whether that means new money is coming in.
- 6:27 P.M.: Trying to get handle on trailing liabilities (obligations to promoters) in March after new compensation plan.
- 6:29 P.M.: Getting into pricing of TelexFree to competitors. Network marketing exec working with MacMillan said he was excited about product. MacMillan optimistic because this exec is optimistic. Knows six were listed, but MacMillan does not know of them. MacMillan keeps touting availability of app as key competitive advantage.
- 6:33 P.M.: MacMillan understood top 30 creditors listed on all three bankruptcy petitions because companies were to be rolled into one. Not aware of total liabilities. MacMillan sat around table with customer service and finance person to inquire about whether top 30 creditors had connection to business. Wanzeler wasn’t there, and Merrill was asked. Raised issue that several of top 30 have addresses in Coconut Beach, where Wanzeler is located. MacMillan is unaware of relationship, if any.
- 6:36 P.M.: No explanation for drastic increase in payment requests following roll-out of new plan. Understood that entry rate to be promoter in new plan was 10% of what old plan required to be promoter.
- 6:38 P.M.: No secured creditors or real property, as far as MacMillan knows. Agrees that vast majority of creditors are promoters. Understanding that company is trying to set aside all promoter obligations to investigate. MacMillan agrees it is standard form contract.
- 6:42 P.M.: Talking about furniture in call center for 30 people. MacMillan says it is substantial amount of furniture. Not sure if servers owned or leased. MacMillan says that he believes there is a patent on the app.
- 6:46 P.M.: TelexFree app had 16,000 downloads in first five days. Not sure if any new customers from introduction of app.
Stuart Macmillan (cross-examination by DoJ)
- 6:48 P.M.: Delving into why MacMillan is not the one providing sworn testimony in support of first-day motions.
- 6:50 P.M.: MacMillan knows there was a reasonableness cap, but doesn’t know the exact amount of minutes that was the cap.
- 6:51 P.M.: Bases projection of $50 million in revenue based on 80,000 – 90,000 members paying $49.90 per month.
- 6:54 P.M.: Discussing resignations and terminations referenced on April 17. When MacMillan received TRO, he discussed with Runge and then asked for resignations. MacMillan asked all three to resign because he decided it wasn’t in best interests of company for them to remain involved after issuance of TRO.
- Craft’s role with company was doing taxes. No more questions. Witness excused.
- 7:00 P.M.: Court will take 10-minute break, and will resume in ten minutes.
- 7:13 P.M.: Court back in session. Meighan still left, and Exhibit 21 not in evidence. Meighan called as a witness.
Tim Meighan (direct examination by TelexFree)
- 7:15 P.M.: Testimony starts with email exchange in Exhibit 21. Meighan recognizes emails. Assisted in collection of emails, they came from his firm-issued computer. Setting foundation for admission of Exhibit 21.
- Offered into evidence. Court wants to know why TelexFree wants Exhibit 21 into evidence, and TelexFree says to prove that A&M directed efforts. Court will allow entry of Exhibit 21, finding that Meighan either authored or received emails. Objection is overruled, and court will accord appropriate weight.
- 7:24 P.M.: Had several conversations with Mr. Craft about depositing checks. Meighan wanted to go before lunch, Craft wanted to go after. Ended up not going.
- 7:29 P.M.: Federal agents arrived around 2:00 P.M. Walked around with agents, and Meighan told them he was consultant hired to help company prep for bankruptcy. Says he explained who he was, gave him A&M business card. Said his laptop was his. Federal agents said it was grounds for being searched. Waited around until 5:00 P.M. Does not recall Craft running out with checks or with briefcase. Agents did not threaten Mr. Craft or try to restrain him. Meighan was with Craft most of the time.
- No SEC Cross.
Tim Meighan (cross-examination by DoJ)
- 7:33 P.M.: Meighan testifies there were a few times he wasn’t with Craft during times agents executed search warrant. No more questions.
- No redirect. Witness excused.
Closings
- 7:35 P.M.: Court looking to firm up evidentiary record. Nothing further added by Debtor. Nothing from SEC or U.S. Trustee. Record closed with respect to evidence.
- Court will take input from parties as to whether moving forward will involve argument. Debtor ready to proceed today. SEC willing to rest on papers with venue motion. Same with abstention. Not sure, given all evidence, that argument is necessary.
- Court asking Debtor how long will be needed for argument.
Ponzitracker will be concluding coverage at this point, as the cell phone carrying the call is about to shut off due to low battery. I will monitor the court docket and report any updates at that time.
Thank you.
It appears creditors’ (affiliates?) attorneys are wishing to be heard today too…
And it begins…
I’m curious… How does this process of providing a live feed work? Do you have someone in the courtroom? Is this on a local TV station? In other words, how is this being broadcast?
Late development sounds interesting, wonder if it will have any bearing on the motions today…
Someone’s inside in the back typing furiously on a silent keyboard. 😉
It must be by Ozmosis
I have an audio feed from someone in the court room (quality is god awful). Jordan Maglitch for Ponzi Tracker is in the room.
AT least one appears to be an ambulance chaser who is elbowing his client into line as a putative “class representative” in the event this results in a class action tort case somewhere along the line.
Judge sounds quite agitated…
US Attorney’s office has filed civil forfreiture warrants, 26 of them, in any and all assets related to TelexFree and the 8 defendents. SEC says this trumps any bankruptcy attempt as these are CRIMINAL forfeitures.
Judge is reading out agenda…
Judge: “It is my intention to rule on all matters, in open court by Monday at the latest”.
Will work on orders over the weekend.
Reconvening at 10:25 due to some witness? Wait not 2:45, it’s 10:25…
With rulings likely to be made next week, I’m curious how we get any indication on the first few hearings (the most important IMO).
Tone of the Judge, arguments made (which we already know…)? Should be interesting!
Due back in session in 10 minutes.
One thing I’m slightly confused about. If those warrants are executed? What assets are there for the bankruptcy court to oversee? Or what assets are TelexFree going to reorganize with?
They may have found something related to i-Payout or other payment processor? That part has been missing in most court documents.
Apparently the warrants are new, so we haven’t heard of them.
What are they going to reorganize with?
Court is back in session…
That’s one thing they’re fighting over, Oz.
Generally speaking, GT is going to argue that Automatic stay precludes even forfeiture, while SEC/USAtt is going to argue that
“Bankruptcy Code section 362(b) provides that the stay does not preclude, among other things, the commencement or continuation of criminal, paternity, child support, alimony or maintenance actions…”
Well the warrants seem to have been issued? Court isn’t taking them in as evidence but is mindful of them.
I still don’t get how they are going to go forward if the warrants are valid (I assume they’ve been signed off on if they’re “recent developments”).
Humph. Just lost my live audio feed. Have to rely on updates now.
Man, one of the lawyers has such a whiny annoying voice.
I was under the impression that asset seizure was only for criminal offenses. The DOJ has an Asset Seizure and Money Laundering Office. The FBI also has a seizure program. Are you sure this was a civil seizure?
Civil and criminal seizure.
Long dialogue currently going on. Not sure but I think it’s TelexFree’s lawyer and Judge.
Yep, TelexFree lawyer complaining about SEC non-compliance with court rules…
I think GT is relying on this interpretation of Chapman / Coho Res.
“Title 11 USC § 362 “provides that the filing of a bankruptcy petition operates as a stay of the `commencement or continuation’of all non-bankruptcy judicial proceedings against the debtor.”
Case detail can be found here:
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/345/338/550640/
Meanwhile in Dominican Republic, police
arrested Telexfree leader.
http://eldia.com.do/allanan-la-residencia-del-cabecilla-de-telexfree/
Talking about jurisdiction at the moment (think it’s the judge), can’t quite make out what is being said.
Arguing about court procedures related to SEC affidavits being presented as evidence…
Apparently SEC attorney claiming not aware of rules of witness lists.
It could be both, Hoss.
SPECULATION: Money was seized under 18 U.S. Code § 981 (civil) and there is a parallel or sealed criminal indictment that includes a forfeiture allegation.
PPBlog
Half the story translated:
Oz please post the audio link
No link. It’s a phonecall.
Discussing exhibits now (this is for the SEC venue-change hearing). Court has rejected one declaration, will admit other.
SEC seem to be going for 362(b)(4) that claimed forfeiture trumps automatic stay of bankruptcy
https://www.courtlistener.com/bap9/aPCR/in-re-chapman/
Arguments should start any moment now on the venue-change…
People who want to take bets should also study these two documents:
SEC enforcement vs Bankruptcy
http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=transactions
and of course, SEC vs. Brennan
http://www.leagle.com/decision/2000295230F3d65_1288.xml/S.E.C.%20v.%20BRENNAN
Going offline for 2 hours. 🙂
Macmillan’s email exchanges are out. Won’t be submitted.
I think this puts a pretty big dent on TelexFree’s arguments. Much of what they’ve filed over the past few days has revolved around Macmillan’s declaration.
Is Macmillan himself on that court?
He’s being called as the second witness after Runge (TelexFree’s “hide the money from from the SEC” guy), so I imagine so.
Wonder what the Judge’s official reaction will be to the “stash the money!” story…
I just read the exhibit 21 (the Craft E-mails) they confirm McMullins explanation of why Craft had the checks in his possession and that the intent was to put them in a safety deposit box.
In fact the last e-mail on the 15th is Craft agreeing to meet a bankruptcy advisor group out of NYC to put the checks in a deposit box. Shortly thereaftere the raid took place. Another e-mail in the series was written by Wanzeler who wrote that he thought that his e-mail account had been hacked. Interesting.
I considered it more than a coincidence that the SEC knew of Merrils withdrawal activity on the 11th and then crashed the Telexfree offices where Craft had the checks right after he stated his intentions to deposit them in a safe box. Seems like a wire tap or survelillance op.
I am not clear on why the e-mails were not admitted. Anyone have an explanation?
I agree with what you said Hoss
Exhibit 21 will likely be admitted once Meighan testifies that he wrote and authored the emails. Purely hearsay objections right now because Runge didn’t write some.
Emails have been admitted now I think.
I believe the original objection had to do with supporting assertions in the declaration with the assertions in the emails. Meighan will be called to testify to remove hearsay issues, hence the inclusion now I believe.
I think I get it. These e-mails are second hand hearsay because McMullin was not a party to the e-mails. He has no first hand knowledge. Mangheim was the receipient and replier which is why he is going to testify.
If he confirms thhe content of the e-mail they may be accepted into evidence.
I think i will wait for the court transcript, but this is not going well for the SEC and DoJ…The judge is allowing to mutch allegations from the Telexfree legal team…my hope are in the sealed documents civil/criminal…
Hur dur, because they know a Ponzi scheme when they see one?
Lunch-break?
Hmm… might try to get a nap in.
I’m getting that vibe too. I hope it swings back towards “you’re a Ponzi scheme, no bankruptcy for you!” at some point.
Has anyone else thought this might be an awesome case for “Phoenix Wright”, the videogame “ace attorney”?
I can even imagine every “evil” character… LOL! If you don’t know who that is, you may find out here.
Just to light things up. 🙂
I see it differently.
Runge is a 22 Year pro. with a good rep. He said he had never seen anything like it and that he did not authorize craft to say he was a consultant or sneak out with the checks. It makes Craft look like the sneaky dude which is what the SEC is trying to prove.
Why did it stopped? Break lunch already?
Fair call Hoss. I’m curious what the explanation for Craft’s actions will be then… maybe Macmillan can fill in the blanks (he’s up next).
Yeah they’re on lunch break for an hour. I’m going to go have a nap.
Hmmmmm
Great Haircut.
And that was that? 🙂
I wish.
They’re 5 mins overdue now. Not sure what’s going on.
Afternoon session just began.
Warning has been issued about streaming hearing.
Ponzi Tracker updates will continue, as Maglich is dialed in via an official service provided to lawyers (for a fee).
I know there’s a few hours to go yet. But one thing I’m unclear on is that, AFAIK they’re still on the venue-change hearing.
I don’t think they’re going to finish that, and if they do, certainly not make it past the second hearing for the day.
Does that mean a future date to continue the hearing?
That’s gunna put a dent in TeleFree’s “waste time” strategy. And the May 7th preliminary injunction hearing isn’t going anywhere…
PonziTracker is taking donations to help cover the cost of the call.
Meanwhile the SEC are really driving the “TelexFree has no connections to Nevada” point home.
Getting into interesting territory with Runge. Wonder if they can get him to admit new affiliate funds were used to pay existing affiliates (P-P-Ponzi scheme).
Lol! Just show me the monay!
Bait and switch >> Typical Ponzi run on the bank >> TelexFree collapse.
Likely not retail money, given that affiliates were required to have VOIP accounts under them to qualify for weekly ROI. 99.9999999% of affiliates were buying the required contracts themselves.
Not to mention all the “strategies” that were floating around (calling on affiliates to create positions under themselves, which they’d fund entirely – including required VOIP subscriptions).
Hope its getting well that i can get my dimes back 😉
What a maroon….
I *think* that’s $5 billion in Ponzi liabilities, not money in.
If so, that totally blows the $1 billion figure we had prior.
TelexFree’s AdCentral Ponzi liabilities are $5 billion? Holy fuck!
SHUT THEM DOWN LANDIS!
From RTP news night service: Two separate investigations launched in Portugal on Telexfree promoters, one by Ministério Público (I believe this is equivalent to US Attorney) and another by Tax Authoruty. The 3 TF creditors living in Madeira were specifically named for tax evasion.
Reportage focused a lot of dramas, especially in the small locality of Caniçal (4000 hab.) where apparently all families joined the scheme.
just pop some popcorn and seat in front of my computer. enjoying the coverage and the lies from the pimps.
Any of you guys have a telexfree account?
I think not, otherwise you would like that telexfree wins today is not it?
I think they need to ask him whether he knows the name of the company that he’s working for because he doesn’t seem to know much about anything.
He doesn’t know his competitors? lol, He’s sooooooo fired!
This guy doesn’t know much, does he? Obviously hired for the sole purpose of trying to stash Ponzi winnings before the regulatory smack-down.
@marco
You just don’t seem to be getting it… TelexFree has no money to pay you chief. It’s all gone to the top promoters.
Win or lose the bankruptcy case, you’re still not getting all of your investment back.
Hey faraoh…..pass the popcorn….
Lol… the DoJ get a cross-examine too!
I thought the SEC questions were bad enough!
Certainly not, Marco, Telexfree winning today means bye bye to your refund. They have directly said they would try by all means to reject all former contracts with their promoters.
Nobody in their perfect mind would root for Telefree today, expect for Wanzeler, Merrill and the rest of the gang.
Can’t wait for Macmillan to take the stand, cross-examination should be a riot.
We will see, that is always a way to swerve the sistem 😉
Lol at Macmillan declaration making it sound like Wanzeler was some defiant hero. “I won’t quit, you’ll have to fire me!”
Of course it was nothing more than a strategic move by Macmillan.
hey guys this is seriuous now, i invested money on telexfree and this week i went to boston SEC office to file my formal complaint, i spoke with three investigators who were very interested on the information i had to pass to them.
one of them said with conviction that telexfree will never operate the same type of business in this country ever again , but not guarantied that some top pimp would open another business under someone else name and carry over some non claimed revenue from telexfree.
the job now is to transfer the case to boston and rescue some of the cash to refund victims.
Correction: “Runge was informed that company was spending hundreds of millions of dollars
to buyback VoIP products fromon AdCentral Ponzi ROIs for promoters.”Answer: none.
There goes Joe Craft’s MLM career. RIP.
This is key, seeing as the new comp plan made no difference to retail customers (Telex99 was still $49.90 a month).
Quite obviously all revenue coming in was from affiliates, with the remaining hundreds of thousands attributable to VOIP payments for ROI qualification.
After affiliates had withdrawn their ROIs, the $100,000 to $300,000 a day would drop significantly.
Um think Rung may be ending a career today too….
Macmillan must be shitting bricks knowing he’s up next.
Here we go, Macmillan is up now.
Well, it’s time for Mr. MacMillan to earn his 50 grand a month salary.
That’s what a $300,000 retainer and $50,000 a month salary did to Macmillan’s initial decision…
Hi everyone,
if telexfree wins today what is going to happen?
Lets see what he doesn’t know or has forgotten
Pigs will start flying for starters… water will turn into wine, down will be up, up will be down – that sort of stuff.
I’m following a live feed on youtube now, at this moment, where some Telexfree Zombies are claiming that ALL of Telexfree’s requests were granted/accepted in the court today…. Are they crazy ????
if telexfree win or loose you will never see your money again, please correct me OZ if im wrong
Runge’s cross-examinations were much more entertaining than his initial testimony. Have to wait for Macmillan to finish telling his version of the story before the lols commence.
Telexzombies are already spamming everywhere claiming big victory, the court has approved the “judicial recovery” of Telexfree!
Not kidding.
can you share the feed?
Wait I take that back…
TOP 5 APPS = $5 BILLION IN REVENUE, NO SWEAT!
Somebody is still streaming the hearing despite all the warnings?
The Zombies are claiming BIG Victory.
Oh it’s a feed of laughing affiliates. I thought it was a court link. Nevermind.
(some guy seems to be translating an audio feed from the court room into Portuguese?)
The only chance that anyone may get a bit of cash back is if Telexfree is shut down and clawbacks begin. It isn’t just the Ponzie 8 that will be giving money back. There’s plenty of pimpet back ground singers that will be handing over their piggy banks.
im brazilian but i hate these guys who doenst understand the language and start to sing victory before it even ends!!!
They based that brilliant conclusion on the few orders that were signed by the judge at the beggining of the hearing, allowing Telexfree to pay their employers (subject to the TRO) and stuff like that.
The poor creatures don’t seem to have realized until now that the bankruptcy processor was going on.
Only problem?
Where are they going to find 80,000 sales reps post Ponzi collapse (?), and the only people using VOIP pre-collapse were Ponzi participants.
LOGIC-XSPLODE!
Cross-examination time!
I got $90000 in telexfree, it means i will lose my money?
These guys in the youtube link (the Telexfree Zombies) are probably living in an “alternate universe”…. Either this or they are “trolls” 🙂 They are now scheduling parties to celebrate their confirmed Victory !! Incredible !
He doesn’t know what the adds are about?…lol
Somebody may want to sell this guy a clue.
maybe some top pimps would load some of their earnings into the so called ¨new compensation¨ plan to help it payoff the botton people.
GIVE THAT MAN A BANKRUPTCY, STAT!
TelexFree CEO doesn’t understand company’s 2 year old business model.
Take new affiliate money and use it to pay existing affiliates… while getting them to publish irrelevant spam all over the internet.
The Telexfree Zombies are now claiming in the live feed that FULL VICTORY was ACHIEVED !!! They remind me of the “Iraq Information Minister” during the 2003 War…
Do you remember that crazy guy that used to appear on TV to inform how Saddam was crashing the NATO troops ?
But of course he didn’t ask any questions.
Well ok, maybe one: “How soon can you pay me that $300,000 retainer?”
OMG!!!! I can’t beleive these guys….lol
I’m firing him too….lol. Maybe the nice guys from the SEC will fill em in…
yes, but i don’t know if the translation is “okay”.
Quick note: the dude “translating” the hearing starts to read some comments of affiliates celebrating the “””victory”””, when he reads the comments of Paula Tejano. Paula Tejano is a joke, a trick name, translated to english means something like Dick Inyo Ass.
What’s there to break down? It all came from affiliate Ponzi investors…
I’m going to give Wanzeler his job back. At least he knew what was going on…..lol
Speaking of Wanzeler, I wonder if they’ll ask him where Wanzeler and Merrill are currently at?
So basically they are claiming they knew nothing. They just cashed their checks and didn’t ask questions.
im with you
Right. Maybe he just wanted to read them a bedtime story…?
LOLOLOLOL. I know I’m kinda getting delirious here (6:15am local time), but seriously?
Yo cmon man… what kind of BS are these guys trying to get away with here? What kind of dumbass CEO knows jack shit about the company he signs on with?!
How many years experience in MLM does Macmillan have again?!
And they really think the court is going to swallow the mountains of BS on display today? My god it’s beyond hilarious.
Carlos Costa was a hack compared to the comedic stylings of Macmillan and Runge.
Oz, when you have a minute, have a look at KCC court docs. The judge signed today some orders similar to those already signed 17 Apr.
That’s what the Telexzombies are celebrating about.
Yeah I saw those. I’m too tired to go through them now so I’ll just see this hearing out and then hit the sack.
Will go through them when I wake up (nothing looked too significant when I skim-read the titles). TF can’t pay anyone because of the TRO, so the orders seem mostly hollow.
Fail. Ignorance (feigned or otherwise) is no excuse for the running of a Ponzi scheme, especially when that data is readily available.
I’ve read them now more carefully, Oz, and finally found the trick that escaped me at the first diagonal reading. Those orders were signed today as interim, waiting final decision TODAY! 😛
Telexzombies are stupid as they can be.
Zombies are using this doc to spam the victory!
http://www.kccllc.net/telexfree/document/1412524140502000000000013
Would’ve liked for the SEC to have forced the issue a little on the promoters using commission money to buy VOIPS, that’s medular.
Other than that, the judge would have to be a complete ignorant to swallow all the “i didn’t know’s” that have been given. They don’t even know their competitors? Are excited because an unnamed “expert” is excited. Foolish and amateur.
” A final hearing on the Motion shall be set for May 2, 2014 at 9:30 a.m.” – kakakakakaka
@Restelo
Ah, if they’re interim till today then they’re not even worth writing about…
One can only wonder what is going through Judge Landis’ mind right about now…
By the looks of it that will be extended or delayed at least over the weekend. In other words interim administration is still in effect. I thought the interim order was signed two weeks ago?
As far as I see things now, the court audience going bad for the zumbis !
He is probably trying to remember the name of a good Trustee.
This has been a recurring theme regarding retail customers during the hearing.
The reason TelexFree can’t come up with any figures on them is because they don’t exist.
Patented on the App LOl so hard that I hit the floor….popcorn everywere lol
So let me get this straight: A couple of new people in a company are trying to convince a judge that said company they apparently know very little about can have success if protected by bankrupcy by selling products and apps they also know nothing about competing in a market they know even less about.
That’s a winning combo!
IMHO, SEC is building a lot of rope to let MacMillan hang himself, since he basically proved that he doesn’t need to be in Nevada, and he and Runge are presuming that they were dealing with a real telecom, not a pretend telecom.
Next SEC is going to claim jurisdiction over ponds trumps even bankruptcy stay and it will be all over. Though we will have to wait till Monday.
Merrill: Can you play dumb?
McMullin: Huh? What?
Merrill: You’re hired.
“you have now entered the twilight zone”…
Hehehehehehehe
In an amended order. I believe those orders were pending since 17 April and he signed them with “interim” value just before this hearing started. It possibly is some bureaucracy.
Other than Landis going out back to have a giggle, I’m not sure what happens now.
Order? Or moving on to the next hearing? There’s only an hour left in the session… and they haven’t even finished the first hearing on the schedule.
And there’s still at least one witness to hear.
Ah yes, that Meighan guy. I forgot about him.
I think today is going to wind up with his testimony and what not, with a order under advisement over the weekend (delivered early next week).
Guess they’ll have to schedule another hearing for the rest of the motions (13).
…or Landis could have heard enough and put a stop to the nonsense right now.
Thirteen more hearings of “I don’t know”? Cmon now…
And we’re back. Hats off to Maglich for the coverage.
Donate people! (7hrs of live blogging and counting!)
A few TelexFree affiliate Facebook groups are ripping off Maglich’s updates with no credit whatsoever, or worse still trying to pass them off as their own. For shame.
I dont know who the Nevada justice system work but the judge has to rule on the “shorten hearing motions” pending that the hole point of the the term “shorten motion” save time decide fast …
Not sure why this is so important to them.
I’d have to look back but I will bet that he has not signed any orders that required the interim order to have been signed. However, it needed to be signed before this Hearing because he would be sitting over the jointly administered estates.
Well that exhibit 21 admission “ex nunc pro tunc” just killed my fun time, damm the judge really whant´s to hear the hole BS Telexfree legal team is trying 2 pull…
I´m getting really confused here Meighan was whit Craft but there is no mention of him in the affidavit from the homeland Se. agent that caugth Craft…whit the bag whit the checks..
Yeah that’s a bit strange. Meighan does acknowledge he wasn’t with Craft 100% of the time though.
And he’s using “doesn’t recall”… he says / she says?
The judge has to hear the whole story and allow both sides to have their say. Don’t be discouraged by the admittance of the emails. These guys sound soooooo clueless they’re doing a great job for our side. : )
Anyway Meighan’s done, 20 minutes left for the day…
Her come the part were all expecting the motion cross your fingers and hope lady justice is not that blind…
It’s gone! 😮
Ohnoes!
The best part and the coverage is done…well the telexzombies are already shouting all over facebook and other sites that they won lol so mutch madness….
Yes but how does today end?!?!?
What if they go into overtime!
ARGGHHH PONZI CLIFFHANGER!
In Courtus Interruptus
Not very satisfying.
Indication from Court was that it would not rule today, but rather would hear all argument so that ruling could be made by early next week.
Thanks for your time and effort PT
Seconded. Cheers Jordan… and make sure you give that phone (and your fingers!) some rest.
I think I’m gunna call it a
nightmorning.Framed little cloud above judges head reads:
Boy did I earn my martini today. : )
Good Work Oz and Ponzitracker!
Ponzitracker by all means send me the call info to my email and i will gladly report connecting using my Skype account (wouldn’t that be ironic!) that has lots of monthly minutes left on it. 🙂
ARGGHHH PONZI CLIFFHANGER!
You can say that again!
Thank you for all your work Oz.
Sweet Dreams!
Thank you OZ
great work tonight !
I watched the court hearing in las Vegas in person. The new management seems clueless. What.s preventing the old management and ringleader a from gleei.g the country? Why were they not in court? Grilling new tf management seems pointless unless the or heads will roll along with the others
26 subpoeas / civil forfeiture warrants will probably be an interesting upcoming story.
United States Attorneys = federal prosecutors = there has to be a new type of complaint (or else it would have been handled by SEC lawyers).
My guess = it probably involves money laundering in large scale.
That inconspicuous $5 billion dollar revenue dark cloud is hanging menacingly over their heads. It’s to about rain.
Meanwhile…
MacMillan: “I don’t know about all that other stuff. But that app! OOooooh that app is gonna get us all outta hear and back to Ponzi land! I can smell it! If you could only smell it too, judge! Can’t you just smell it in the air?”
Hi Jamil, have you watched it till the end? What about the argument? Anything remarkable?
BTW, thanks a lot to Oz and Ponzitracker for their fantastic work following today’s hearing.
@David
Don’t worry the judge is all there.
Court preceedings can be frusrating to say the least because when hearing the other side we become worried that the judge will be swayed by their words and forget ours.
I think it was Hoss who I felt said it perfectly in a post just a day or so ago…I can’t quote him and don’t have time to go back and look for it but it had to do with what is said in court and is not necessarily what is perceived as fact,…..ugh!!!
If Hoss reads this perhaps he’ll remember the post I’m trying to referrence and put it up. I think it would be good for people to read again especially after today. Helllllo Hoss?
BTW you can read a bit about the judges background on the Ponzitracker site.
He’s no dope….think we’re in good hands.
@Jamil Junior
So what was said in the final minutes? hmmmmm? Go back to face book Jamil Junior. That’s where you belong.
When you grow up then perhaps you can join in here.
That was me.
I said:
@littleroundman
Well said, and I agree…but the particular post I”m thinking of expressed pretty much the same thought but it was said in say 6 short sentences. And so I thought it was easy to understand.
I’m pretty sure it was a Hoss thought. I’ll find it tomorrow.
I’m one that appreciates when talking in the “written voice” a thought or expression can be conveyed with the least amount of words…. so those are always post’s that stick in my memory.
Real life…????? talk waaaaay to much….lol
You guys are awesome. This is way better than TV.
I’m truly not conversant with the flowery legal jargon. But I’m an ardent subscriber to comprehensive and mutual justice nonetheless.
I, and many others here in Uganda, had invested with willing consciousness given the compelling lucrativeness. God forbid, but the looming results as regards the future of Telexfree are akin to disaster and trauma.
We’ll keep our fingers crossed as we watch the unfolding circumstances. Everybody is tying ones fate to the temple of justice in either Nevada or anywhere as it will be directed. But. please, try to be earnestly considerate of the massive stakeholder body.
Then you should allow SEC to liquidate the company, because today’s testimony indicates CLEARLY that the company ONLY has less than $100 million in assets to pay $5 BILLION in obligations, so the only way it can survive is to make that $5 billion owe to you all (i.e. all of your money) disappear.
At least with SEC you may get SOMETHING back. If you allow company to reorganize you get NOTHING. They want to VOID IT ALL! Understand? ALL OF IT!
Thanks, Dorothy. Lol!!
Here it is:
ponzitracker.com/main/2014/5/1/pivotal-telexfree-bankruptcy-hearing-set-for-friday.html
@LRM that’s punchy. I like it.
@Dorothy
I dont’ remember..was is “if the law is on your side argue the law…..etc ”
Right. No need to rub salt in the wounds so to speak.
True
But if Telexfree is permitted to reorganize hundreds of thousands of Telexfree promoters and a potentially seven billion smart phone users worldwide will have the opportunity to obtain a Telexfree app and VOIP minutes for only $49.99 per month. That’s something right?
Look on the bright side. It can’t get any worse.
Put in thousands of dollars, get back bazillion minutes few if any people can use. Muahahahaha.
Best option I see as a solution for this will be to distribute all the money in the accounts that Telexfree has between the affected promoters who could not have the return of their investments.
Let Telexfree continues its operation, get the cost of the voips down and let many promoters decide if they want to continue working with Telexfree having the money owed to them invested on TF or let them decide if they want their money back.
And also prosecute former executives and top promoters of TF seizing all the money they earned on TF having civil or criminal penalties in case it applies for operating a ponzi scheme and invest the money gathered from top PIMP promoters on the company to let it continue working. I think this is a fair deal.
@Vic
Who’s going to run it?
Macmillan is just there to try and get the company off the hook. He’s being paid $50,000 a month (plus $300,000 retainer) out of Ponzi money. As long as he’s getting his $50,000 payment, he’s happy to rock up to court, co-ordinate lawyers and continue to prolong the inevitable.
You think he’s going to stick around when the company is making peanuts each month?
Prosecute the owners and there’s nobody left to run things.