The Dubli Shopping Network – What’s it all about?
Dubli market themselves as a reverse auction shopping portal with a business opportunity attached for prospective Dubli Business Network Associates.
Dubli is based in Europe and have a market in Europe, the US and more recently Australia. They also seem to have somewhat of a shady failed past in China.
With claims like;
- “Dubli is a business opportunity where anyone can establish their own business in a competitive market; with little if no risk”
- Dubli is “poised to change the rules of the online shopping game”
- The use of “ingenious ideas” by Dubli
- “When DubLi.com takes off, it will go stratospheric” and
- frequent comparisons to eBay’s multi billion dollar business model
you’re probably expecting big things from Dubli. Let’s take a closer look and see if they deliver.
1. Dubli credits
At the heart of the Dubli business model is their credit system. One credit costs US$0.80 cents and can be used in either of the two auction models offered by Dubli.
Credits are bought by Dubli Business Associates and then resold to retail customers. The retail customers then use the credits to participate in the auctions Dubli offers.
2. The Dubli business opportunity
The Dubli business opportunity is available to anyone who signs up as a Dubli Network Business Associate and purchases an e-Biz kit for $175 USD.
The Dubli Business Associate then purchases credits in packages at a 5% discount and resells them onto other Business Associates or retail customers.
Depending on the level of the Business Associate commission is earned when these credits are spent in the auctions or resold by the Business Associates they were initially resold to.
Whilst the selling of products is tied into the Dubli shopping portal itself, it is clear that to make any money Dubli Business Associates will have to market and sell credits. Without the constant selling of this virtual commodity a Business Associate is unable to make any money.
Selling Dubli credits to retail customers and other Business Associates is the core business of being a Dubli Network Business Associate.
3. The Dubli reverse auctions
As mentioned earlier, the core of Dubli’s business model is their selling of credits for use in what they call reverse auctions. Taken specifically from the Dubli website;
DubLi.com – a reverse auction portal for high level
branded merchandise.
Wikipedia defines reverse auctions as an auction where “sellers compete to obtain business, and prices typically decrease over time“.
In a Dubli.com auction it is the buyers who compete against each other in order to theoretically lower the price of the auction. Aside from clearly not falling within the definition of a reverse auction to begin with, the catch with Dubli’s style of auction is that it costs bidders each time they wish to compete against each other.
Two types of auctions are offered by Dubli, ‘Xpress’ and ‘Unique Bid’.
Xpress
In the Dubli Xpress auctions an item is set at a fixed starting price. Bidders can then use credits to view the current price of an item and then decide whether to purchase it or not.
Each credit spent to view the current price on an item decreases it’s current selling price by 25 cents.
ie. An item is initially priced at $5.oo. You spend a credit and the get to view the item’s price, which is now $4.75. If you pass and someone else comes along and chooses to spend a credit and view the price they now see it for $4.50 and so on.
It’s worth noting that if you don’t buy the item, the credit spent to view the current price is dead money, or to put it more accurately pure profit for Dubli.
Unique Bid
In Dubli’s Unique Bid auctions, items are auctioned off within a set time limit. This time limit is known to bidders and the winner of the auction is the person who has the lowest unique bid. Bids can be made in increments of $0.25c.
I’m not entirely sure what happens if there is no lowest unique bid. Say for example nobody bids above $5.00 for an item but every bid $5.oo and lower has multiple bidders.
Again it’s worth noting that if you don’t win an auction the money spent on bidding is gone. For items costing hundreds or thousands of dollars and the ability to place multiple bids at a time (up to 1000 at once), this could wind up being a costly venture.
From a business associate perspective there does seem to be a level of risk in that you are trading the virtual commodity of Dubli credits, of which the value is directly tied into the company itself.
You put in an order with a tradable currency and in return you receive virtual stock that is worth nothing if Dubli goes bust. This is the biggest risk I think people should be taking into consideration when deciding to join Dubli.
As of yet I haven’t even looked at the compensation plan.
For buyers (and potential customers if you’re a business associate), the very real risk is there that due to the nature of Dubli’s auctions it’s quite easy to pump a lot of money into them and not win anything.
As a customer experiencing this on a repeat basis isn’t going to see me sticking around for long.
Whilst the shopping experience on Dubli might be dubbed ‘fun’, spending money and having nothing to show for it isn’t really a successful long term satisfaction model for your customers.
It’s interesting that paying to view the “bid” price in the Xpress auctions attempts to appeal to the sunk cost fallacy, possibly increasing the chance customers will buy items after paying money to view the prices.
As to the unique bidding procedure, it’s another interesting auction model, although sellers will only get a reasonable price for their item if they can attract a lot of bids. This requires desirable items (iPods, laptops, etc) for sale. However, uninteresting items run the risk of selling at a steep loss if they don’t attract enough bids, which is likely to deter sellers and thereby reduce the scope of items which will be available for purchase.
Obscuring actual costs by requiring the use of credits to bid is a cheap psychological trick, although that doesn’t mean it can’t be effective. Similarly the game-like auctions appear to mimic gambling and are likely to appeal to those susceptible to gambling addictions. Such people would likely become regular customers after winning a few early bargains.
Personally I don’t see how introducing an intermediary transaction (credits) and additional complicated bidding rules into any auction transaction will appeal over the long term to potential customers. While DubLi might manage to attract curious customers and sellers, most aren’t going to stay, especially if they believe they’re getting screwed over.
Very much so.
Not only do you have the investment factor (which can add up quickly at 80 cents a credit, but also the knowledge that other bidders can snatch up the item from underneath you.
I had a quick look at the Dubli website over the weekend and for the most part they just seem to be selling gift cards loaded with a preset value, at a loss. Not sure who’s making money here or if this is a loss lead product but it’s not making much sense from a business perspective considering alternative auction inventory is so small.
This is why I believe Dubli hasn’t and won’t take off, the long term viability just isn’t there. The risk of getting burnt (investing money with no product return) is just too high for a buyer and, in the long term far outweighs any short term savings to be made.
i signed up and i didn’t have to buy any business associate stuff. i was looking to sell neways products on there as we have friends doing the same thing with other products. atm i haven’t done anything with dubli in regards to putting the products up/on/any information.
i know when i went on there the first time i didn’t find their shop/only found the auctions and that didn’t impress me at all. the cards they are auctioning sound like what other auction sites are doing – bidrivals.
interesting to see what happens. there are people here who are very thrilled with it.
I was under the impression you couldn’t sell items yourself unless you sold merchandise to Dubli as a wholesaler or whatever they call it?
Didn’t think individual companies themselves could list auctions via Dubli. I know there’s a half arsed shopping portal set up but again you need to go through Dubli to sell anything there. I don’t even think it’s an open application process?
Have you looked at Dubli recently, as I’ve noticed it being spammed around.
It seems to have morphed into a cash back mall.
There appear to be 3 membership options: free, premium (pay monthly to get a higher cash back %), and VIP in which you pay the most and earn money by referring other VIPs.
VIP member spam claims the site was created by same organisation that created bing (really?), that they are the #1 referrer for many of the merchants listed (hmm?), and they are a public company (which may be true I suppose).
Time for a review I think!
On the review list, can’t say when a review will be written though.
TelexFree surprised me this week with the amount of new news coming out. Probably be the same next week with the hearing on the 23rd.
When there’s lots of news to cover the reviews get a bit behind :(.
A quick spin through their “shopping mall” shows that all they did was signed up for a bunch of affiliate programs and put them on one site. The percentage of the cash back that the free members get is less than what the merchants are offering their affiliates.
A VIP would have to spend over $1,000 to break even on the $99. Considering that the a good portion of the merchants are specialty and/or UK based, that would be pushing it since this is gearing up to be promoted by Americans and the “big boys” like Amazon are not merchants. It’s just a front for the business opportunity scheme.
^^ I think some of you have been reading BehindMLM long enough for me to perhaps start outsourcing reviews 🙂
Oz – you taught us well 🙂
I did find this article written in August about their penny stock. Note the mention of virtual office and a mention that SEC said they were not in compliance on reporting back in May (they may have rectified this).
http://www.hotstocked.com/article/87865/dubli-inc-otcmkts-dubl-on-a-treacherous-run.html
I have looked at Dubli just recently, a couple of times within the last 2 weeks. I tried to identify changes in the business model, but it’s basically using the same idea it always have used = “introduce a new component to the front side of the business, and market that component as the next big thing on the internet”.
Dubli has a “front side” (customer side) and a “business side” (recruit new participants). The business side is a true pyramid scheme, even if it has some “products” attached to the membership packages. I haven’t identified those “products” clearly, they’re not very important.
“CUSTOMER SIDE” AND “BUSINESS SIDE”
Front side “products” = memberships.
* Free member (generates commissions on cashbacks)
* Premium member, $4.95 per month (25% commission)
* VIP member, $99 per year (25% commission)
Business side “products” = membership “positions” (one time fee).
* BA Business Associates, $495 membership fee
* TLA Team Leader Associates, $2,475 membership fee
* TC Team Coordinator, $6,000 membership fee
* SD Sales Director, $12,000 membership fee
BA is called TM Team Member in North America. TLA can be called TL Team Leader in North America. I may use both versions (BA/TM and TLA/TL) from time to time, depending on the videos I have watched.
Here’s one video explaining “customer side” and “business side”:
NOLINK://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP1u-v7WKy8
COMMISSIONS
[Recruitment commissions, business side]
BA/TM gives the right to earn 5% commission
TLA/TL = 10% commission
TC = 15% commission
SD = 20% commission
VP (Vice President) = 25% commission
SVP (Senior Vice President) = 27.5% commission
“Fast start bonus”:
If you recruit 3 new associates within 30 days: $500 bonus
If you recruit 10 new associates within 30 days: $1,500 bonus
Production bonus:
It was presented in another video, but I don’t remember the details.
[Customer side commissions]
25% commission on every VIP or Premium membership fee
25% on commissionable cashback
RECRUITMENT QUALIFICATIONS (BUSINESS SIDE)
BA/TM = no recruitment of new associates needed
TLA/TL = recruit 3 BA/TM to be promoted to TLA/TL
TC = recruit 3 TLA to be promoted
SD = recruit 3 TC to be promoted
VP (Vice President) = recruit 5 SD
SVP (Senior Vice President) = recruit 5 VP
Note that you can BUY your way to the first 4 positions, but that won’t make any sense if you don’t have any plans about recruiting others into the same system.
PRODUCTS
People have vaguely mentioned some “products” in a few of the videos I have watched.
* MasterCard prepaid debit card (part of the VIP package?)
* an online Magazine
* replicated websites
* coupons and vouchers (e.g. VIP membership voucher, VIP trial)
* a “certification” for something
* “DubLi Academy”
* Dubli events (e.g. one in Dubai)
CUSTOMER REQUIREMENTS
I don’t remember the details there, but VP or SVP required 30 customers to qualify for commissions.
You can probably BUY the required customers directly from Dubli. It was vaguely mentioned in one of the videos I watched.
That’s the problem. Most videos have focused primarily on the “business side” of Dubli, typically on how much commission people can earn from recruitment. Other parts are often “vaguely mentioned”, so I haven’t been able to produce a complete overview.
THE SOURCES I HAVE USED = mostly Youtube videos
I have looked at 6-8 videos, all from 2014 (March/April and July/August). There’s no real change in how the business side is being marketed.
I even compared it to a 2012 video and a 2007 video. There’s no major changes in how that part of the business is being marketed.
Here’s some additional information, found in the SEC filings, “Annual report for the fiscal year that ended September 30 2012” (Form 10-K).
Business (Page 3 in the 10-K):
Note that this is information needed in a review, but I didn’t try to filter anything. I copied the whole text DIRECTLY from the 10-K.
* Clamshell Enterprises, Inc was unknown to me.
* MediaNet Group Technologies, Inc. was the name used when Dubli “went public”.
* DubLi, Inc. was the current name (in September 2012).
SOURCE:
nolink://ir.dublicorp.com/sec.cfm
nolink://ir.dublicorp.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1213900-14-6259&CIK=1097792
I will probably pick up some more information from the same source (the 2012 Annual report). I will mark that information as “Continued”.
[Continued]
From page 5 in the 10-K (a small fraction of the description of the auctions):
Note that this is how the business was described in 2012. They have replaced “Credits” with “Membership packages”.
CORRECTION
I may have missed something when I started to read the 10-K. The information was mostly about the year 2012 (or the years prior to 2012), but suddenly it focuses on 2013 and 2014.
The report seems to have been updated PARTLY in some parts, updated until early August 2014. The rest of it seems to have been copied from earlier reports.
“Monthly business licenses” was new to me.
“Marketing packages” is probably about the business side packages.
“Sales Training Material” is probably about “DubLi Academy”.
“VIP and Premium memberships” explains itself.
“Rebates” explains itself.
“Online sale of software, etc.” explains itself.
That’s how DubLi itself explains how people can earn commissions.
OWNERS
Page 22, “Item 2. Properties”, lists Tom Kjaer (Tom Kjær in Danish), as a major owner with 17.35% of the shares.
I will probably find a list of major shareholders somewhere in that document, but this one identified some “inside trading”.
Dubli as a company don’t officially earn any money, but the inside owners do (ordinary share holders don’t). They probably have some “mixed roles”, i.e. profiting indirectly from the network marketing activity through some “leadership bonuses” or something.
“the sale of Credits” and shopping mall with cashback rewards? Sounds a lot like Lyoness
[Continued]
Part II of the 10-K is about share prices etc., and about revenue.
[2012]
Those figures actually show that the auction was profitable, but the network wasn’t. That is related to that the membership packages back then contained “Credits”. People could buy a higher position by buying more “Credits”, and they could use those “Credits” in auctions (I don’t think they actually had to USE the bids themselves either).
Auction items were typically gift cards that could be exchanged for cash, so they were basically refunding some of the costs via the auctions.
The auctions actually had a “money laundering” function = make illegal revenue look legitimate. “Illegal revenue” is about money paid in by the participants themselves for “Credits”. It will LOOK legitimate when presented as revenue from an auction.
“DUBLI IS ALL ABOUT SELLING THE OPPORTUNITY”
From my understanding of it, Dubli is all about selling the opportunity, disguised behind a facade of something that looks like legitimate business activities, and it’s very little about selling products or services to real customers.
Little has changed from 2012 to 2014, the members are still mostly focusing on recruitment of new Business Associates.
The different “Customer side” components are needed to make it look less like a pyramid scheme, e.g. for regulatory purposes and for marketing purposes. They may LOOK LIKE opportunities in themselves, like inexpensive opportunities to make some “pocket money” mostly through cashback and rebates.
Trained people will try to make an opportunity look more legitimate, i.e. they will present it as they want a general market to see it. That’s why I looked at multiple marketing videos, to avoid getting the impression trained people want me to get.
Some videos clearly focused on the customer side of the business, but they didn’t mention anything about those more expensive membership packages. I picked that information up from less experienced ones, from videos that were more difficult to find.
[Continued]
From page 28 in the 10-K
I have failed to identify the “Partner Program” mentioned there. It was mentioned somewhere in the 10-K, but I believe it was in one of the “old” parts about 2012. I believe it may contain some interesting details.
Yet again, it’s Dubli’s OWN description. It will focus on 3 parts = expanding the business, expanding the business, expanding the business.
The fact that the auctions were discontinued shows that they weren’t really profitable, they had other functions than that. I mentioned “money laundering” and “facade of legitimacy” as potential functions.
2009/2010 … NOW
[Slightly off-topic, it’s about my impressions rather than about the 10-K]
I checked Dubli the first time in 2009 or 2010, but without “studying” it in details. The focus back then was on recruiting partners to “the next big thing on the internet”, based on false information about how popular the auctions were in foreign markets (Germany was used to promote the program in the U.S. and Australia). People who checked those claims found very little activity in the German market.
I have checked it a few times between 2010 and now (the few times someone has brought it up). Each time I have checked, Dubli has just recently added a new component to the “front side” of the business, a new “next big thing on the internet”.
The real business opportunity has always been about expanding the network. Most of the money comes in from that part, from the Business Associates themselves.
Most of the times (between 2010 and now), I have tried to detect any significant activity among “customers”. I have never found any, that part of the business seems to have very little activity. That was also reflected in the 2012 revenue (in my previous post).
TONY RUSH
[Slightly off-topic, it’s about Tony Rush’ marketing methods]
“The next big thing on the internet” was also reflected in Tony Rush’ video invitation (mentioned in an Empower Network thread). From my POV, Tony Rush is experienced enough to identify how to market an opportunity (e.g. he will typically focus on “potential” and “major parts of ideas” rather than on the details).
Tony Rush actually described it indirectly, “if you see what I saw”, “nobody has done that before”, plus a focus on how much money people could expect to earn.
Income opportunity seekers of the type the video was meant for will usually fall for that type of marketing, they will apply their OWN ideas when they’re trying to identify “what Tony Rush had seen”. Even if they don’t see it themselves, they will believe HE has seen something important about the program’s “potential”. So they will pretend they have seen something.
[Continued]
From page 29 in the 10-K, describing the Business Associate Program (probably copied from the 2012 report).
I was unfamiliar with that “Co-operative Advertising”. It’s probably a method to disguise some of the payments from the participants.
It will make the revenue coming in from network marketing fees look less significant. It will also “legitimize” some of the commissions paid out to people in upline (it will make it look like revenue coming in from customers).
* One of the videos I watched mentioned that Business Associates could BUY customers from Dubli, e.g. to meet the “customers required” criteria.
* Some of the alternatives for the Membership packages offer “VIP 30 day trial” at a low cost, around $1 per voucher IIRC. That indicates that most of the customers actually are fake customers generated by the BAs themselves as “Trial memberships”.
Each time I have checked, Dubli has shown very few signs of any real customer activity. It has always been about selling “the next big thing on the internet” to income opportunity seekers.
PART III (FROM THE 10-K, page 42)
Board of Directors:
Executive officers:
That part about Board Members and Executive Officers also have biographical information.
AUDIT REPORT, MOSTLY ABOUT 2011/2012
Page 59 in the 10-K.
Dubli doesn’t officially make any profit, but the insiders do. It doesn’t have any real business activity (other than the network marketing part, and the parts directly related to that).
The main owner is Michael Hansen, he has both the majority of common shares (16.7%) and 100% of some “Super Voting preferred shares” (185,000 shares total, each with 2,000 votes).
I have checked Dubli’s “Shopping Blog”, where “Weekly Deals” and other offers are being / have been presented.
The results for different blog cathegories:
Weekly deals, May 2013 –> still active (September 2014)
Entertainment, March 2013 –> December 2013
Fashion, August 2013 –> March 2014
Food & Drink, August 2013 –> March 2014
Health & Beauty, June 2013 –> February 2014
House & Home, September 2013 –> December 2013
Tech, March 2013 –> still active
Travel, June 2013 –> still active
Some of those cathegories have been rather short lived. They have probably been added to make it look more impressive and “complete”, to make it look more like a real shopping mall.
DUBLI ACADEMY
I have also tried to check “Dubli Academy”. It only has vague descriptions, but it was described as “education modules” “focused on professional network marketing”.
Normally that means that people in upline can earn commissions from selling “educational modules” to people in downline. Some of the modules are probably required if you want to advance in the organization.
Dubli is extremely vague on some details. That’s why I have preferred to check random videos rather than the company’s own information.
“22,000 business associates in 100 countries”
That statement is from Dubli’s own website. Statements like that are usually exaggerated, both for the number of affiliates and for the number of countries.
THE PARTNER PROGRAM
I also tried to check that program, using Dubli’s own website as a source. The program is designed for businesses = “add your customers to Dubli’s customer base and earn a percentage from all their purchases”, plus something about marketing tools.
The idea was vaguely described. It will not attract any experienced business people, so that Partner Program may be a “facade” (it may be used to make people BELIEVE there’s a stream of customers coming in from that part of the program).
“Drive customers to the Dubli.com website”
According to Dubli’s own website, the Business Associates do not need to sell any products (to external customers). “Their job is to drive customers to the Dubli.com website, to sell an IDEA rather than selling a product”.
There’s nothing wrong in that from a sales perspective. The problem is that very few are focusing on the customer side of the business, they’re not DOING what Dubli claim they should do.
If “driving customers to the Dubli.com website” had been a main function, internet had been flooded with that type of marketing. But so far I haven’t seen anything.
The argument “they don’t need to sell anything” was part of a more complete description about “downloadable products”, “no inventory loading”, etc., so it’s actually used to sell the opportunity.
DIFFICULT TO CHECK
Dubli is rather difficult to check if you want to know about details. The company itself is rather vague, it doesn’t provide the details people normally will be asking about.
It PRETENDS to be trying to attract customers, but it doesn’t provide enough information to get the customers interested. It looks like it actually is trying to REDUCE the number of customers.
I have used Dubli’s OWN description, “drive customers to the Dubli.com website”. In that scenario, the website itself should do the sales job. But it doesn’t do that, the website looks more attractive to income opportunity seekers than to customers.
Laveina’s comment about getting in now because two years from now will be too late screams ponzi.
I give it a year at the most.
As of November 2014 things have changed. The extensive research done appears to be slightly inaccurate. The overview has mixed more of the business side to the customer/retail side.
I only work the the Dubli.com retail side because most people don’t want a business or want to talk to others about making money but they will share a sale, good food, etc. and for a free/no charge membership or V.I.P., (99.00/yr) with higher cash back and other benefits.
It is still customer acquisition and IF a referral is made Dubli.com with pay a referral fee like most of the other companies.
Dubli.com and DubliNetwork.com are 2 separate entities. Although I’m on both my main focus is the cash back on everyday products and services and I don’t mention a business opportunity.
You can’t selectively separate parts of the business. The retail side exists to mask the recruitment side (business opportunity).
Nope. Dubli is an MLM company. How they carve it up is irrelevant.
If you’re truly interested in cashback retail, there’s plenty of other networks for you to promote. Dubli do only use publicly available offers after all (see cookies in their source-code).
Yeah but you’re still an affiliate. And still able to earn recruitment commissions.
You said it yourself, “people don’t want…” – suggesting you’ve already tried to build a downline. And don’t pretend like you wouldn’t sign up a new affiliate and collect those recruitment fees if you did find somebody interested.
Mind you, there’s nothing on you if you did recruit and earn – the problem is with Dubli’s compensation plan. They’ve since switched to a binary nobody seems to be able to provide any specific information on, but as I understand it it’s still just recruitment with cashback tacked on.
these videos they post make me laugh.. they say nothing, just hurry join us, look at us, its cool to join us. Hurry while there’s time to join us.
First there was the Millionaires club, where every on in it would make there a million in the first 18 months, well I’m fairly sure all but the leaders only made a few thousand, recruiting.
Now there’s a Founders Club, “get in while you can” “ten thousand will lead the way” “No matter how hard they try and stop it Wukar will fly” so they’ve created this illusion they some how they are special, and others are jealous and conspiring to stop them, Really?.
So what will be after this Club? the Assistant founders club, the ten thousandires Club, Matt trainers breakfast club.
I’d really like to know if they have permission to use Bastille’s music, i might just fire an email off 🙂
Have read all reviews and gained insight but it leaves me confused. Can any one guide whether joining Dubli as business associate will generate decent revenues ?
A better question is how much $$$ do you have to spend, over what amount of time, and how many people do you have to recruit to generate “decent” revenue?
The proper answer should have been “minimal (it’s a job, albeit one I control)”, “within a year or less”, and “zero, since I am selling things, not recruiting”.
If you realize the answers are NOT what you should be expecting (you are putting in large amount of dollars, they give “weasel” answers like “it depends on how hard you work/recruit”, or they say “you have to build your team in order to make good money”), perhaps they are not telling you the truth.
But then, scams (and scammers) never tell you the whole truth. That is the way it works… They tell you the good parts, and leave you to find the bad parts AFTER you already gave them your money (and brought in all your friends and family in excitement).
It’s difficult to make money in DubLi. It’s “hot” for a few weeks or months in a country, but then it suddenly gets “ice cold” with many dissatisfied investors. The people you have recruited will usually leave within few months because they don’t make any money. Even experienced people seem to be dissatisfied.
DubLi has used appr. the same business model for several years = heavily promote “the next big thing on the internet” for a few months, then let it cool down again.