Is cash gifting the core of the Empower Network?
In keeping with general tabs on the MLM industry as part of my research and what not here at BehindMLM, I process a lot more material on a daily basis than I write about.
One particular video came across my desk a week or so ago.
Despite being published a year and a half ago, I felt was worth dissecting as it pretty much confirmed the viewpoints I held about the company after reviewing the Empower Network late last year.
The “No Excuses Summit” is an annual training event (independent of Empower Network) run by Ferny Ceballos and his “crew”.
The footage we’re going to analyse today (available at the end of this article) is taken from the second No Excuses Summit which was held in mid 2011.
It features none other than Empower Network CEO David Wood as a speaker.
The footage from Wood’s presentation starts with him on stage telling the audience that he’s going to share “a couple of key concepts on recruiting through presentations and getting people to do stuff”, which Wood reveals he thinks “is important”.
Wood begins by sharing with the audience his belittling of a waitress in Costa Rica (where he lives). After telling the waitress that “money is trash”, Wood then proceeded to rip up a $50 bill infront of her (Wood claims that this was the equivalent of her weekly wages).
Wood claims he did this because he “spends a bunch of money and it’s there again the next day”.
Wood presses on and then tells the audience about his “ultimate discovery about money”. He shares how he hated school and that the idea of going to school, getting a job and earning money before retiring is “stupid”.
This belittling of people who have jobs is a common tactic deployed by marketers to present the idea that only two options exist in life: holding down a job you hate or participating in whatever it is they are pushing.
Wood does so by claiming to have once “worked in a cubicle” where he had to ask his boss to go to the toilet. Wood claims that his boss refused his request and told him to wait for the break.
Short of acknowledging that this is simply an attempt to appeal to their target demographic (unhappy and desperate people) and noting that it’s complete baloney, this isn’t something I want to get into here.
After finishing outlining the process of getting an education, working and retiring – Wood declares it to be “the stupidest shit ever”.
Wood then tries to justify the opportunity he’s in (it’s not clear what opportunity he is talking about, but it’s probably not Empower Network as it hadn’t launched yet), by claiming that it’s ok “98% of people don’t make it” in the opportunity, because “90% of people” who work don’t make it either.
Wood states that “at least if you fail in this you only spend $500”.
Now as I said, I’m not here to have the whole “getting a job is BS” discussion because that’s not what caught my attention in the video. What Wood does next however is definitely worth paying attention to.
Wood attempts to break down having a regular job as simply “a boss giving you money”. For someone who just declared having a job was “the stupidest shit ever”, I thought this was the height of irony.
No boss in the world simply gives you money. You work and you earn it.
Despite the apparent “stupidity” of Wood’s statement, why he made it then gets clearer as the presentation progresses:
[3:50] So in other words the only way to get money is to have someone giving it to you, right?
I mean isn’t that a funny concept, I mean nobody ever thinks about that. How do you get money? Well somebody has to give you money.
Actually, despite claiming that nobody has thought about it, what Wood is infact describing is a well-known concept in scam circles and is referred to as “cash gifting”.
Cash gifting requires no work and is simply the exchange of money between individuals, typically involving a pyramid like structure with money moving up the pyramid to those on top.
[4:04] So anyway I realised this and I said, “well what’s better right, boss giving me money… or thousands of people giving me money all the time and I don’t even have to talk to them.
Wood then sings the praises of his supposed “cash breakthrough”, reasoning that if one person stops giving him money that it doesn’t matter “because there’s lot more people giving me money every month”.
And then, right at the [4:45] mark Wood delivers the most important message of the video.
So then it became this thing, how can I get lots of people to give me money all the time – where they just keep giving it to me all the time.
Just a few short months later, Wood co-founded the Empower Network with David Sharpe.
Apart from David Wood openly professing that people giving money to people is “why he likes (the MLM) industry [4:56]”, I couldn’t help but observe that Wood’s cash gifting ideas perfectly superimpose on top of Empower Network’s business model.
When I went over the Empower Network business model late last year and reviewed the company, one of the things that struck me was that it was entirely possible to join the company and simply earn commissions by recruiting others.
This of course is the definition of a pyramid scheme, but close analysis of Empower Network’s product revealed an even more worrying conclusion.
With the company using the free WordPress blogging platform to power its network, essentially aside from hosting fees and the yearly domain registration of the company, you’ve got a bunch of people paying eachother money each month for something that is free.
The fact that WordPress is free is entirely why Empower Network pay out 100% commissions between members. Peeling back the business model onion, members are essentially just giving eachother their monthly membership fees.
Throw in a perpetual 1-up compensation plan that passes money up on the 2nd, 4th, 6th and every 5th sale thereafter.
As long as people continue to pay monthly membership fees, money continues to trickle up the company – right to the top where Empower Network’s CEO David Wood and President David Shape have positioned themselves.
One must remember that now with thousands of members gifting eachother either $25 or $100 a month, it was only just recently that Empower Network allowed members to turn off the mandatory business opportunity advertising that completely dominated any content members were publishing on their Empower Network blogs.
Prior to that the mandatory emphasis on any member-generated content was to recruit new members into the scheme and get them gifting their uplines either $25 or $100 a month.
Why David Wood thinks the concept of cash gifting is a “breakthrough” I have no idea, but as long as people continue to stump up their monthly gifting fees Empower Network will continue to stay afloat.
Now entering their second year of business (the typical breaking point for pyramid and Ponzi schemes), it’ll be interesting to see if the company can survive without having to “relaunch” in new countries to keep the gifting going.
It’s hardly a breakthru… P.T. Barnum’s competitor David Hannum said back in 1869 that “there’s a sucker born every minute” (the quote was often misattributed to P.T. Barnum) Both of them claimed to have a stone “giant” and toured the nation displaying to people who paid to gawk at the fake.
Wood just basically created the modern equivalent. If you can provide a service that cost you nothing (or nearly nothing), and convince a lot of people pay you (and other people) $$$ for that service, all the power to you. 🙂 Heck, one billionaire in China is selling canned air (no joke).
So Woods was able to convince a lot of people to overpay for something and reap the benefits… Well, at long as he did not do it fraudulently, it’s quite legal! It may not be quite ethical, but it’s legal.
WordPress is free though and the EN template is already paid for. So what exactly are people paying for?
$25/$100 a month for replicated WordPress hosting? At those prices you’re going to have a hard time justifying value (beyond “but it let me recruit new members who paid me money!”).
Not to mention the fact that nobody is actually paying EN anything, it’s just members giving money to other members with mandatory passups trickling up the company all the way to the founders.
Marketing aside, you could obliterate the WordPress side of things and leave the compensation plan entirely intact. Dunno about you but that hardly sounds legal, let alone sustainable.
If cash gifting is so illegal how is it that the Cash Tracking System has been operating for so many years and not been investigated as being illegal?
No idea what Cash Tracking System is, but by that silly logic if I murder someone today and am not caught instantaneously that means murder must be legal too.
Seems cash gifters live up to their reputation /facepalm.
Sorry Oz, my post wasn’t meant to come across as challenging, I just don’t get how CTS (Cash Tracking System) a gifting program that has been around for at least 15 years (they claim) and information is hard to get as far as doing due diligence keeps going.
They claim it’s perfectly legal in all countries. Would love to have heard your take on this ‘activity’. I know it’s not considered a MLM or even a Network Marketing business.
Like I said it is hard to find any information and the members are discouraged from advertising it directly. It is supposedly an ‘invitational’ activity and if one deters from their set rules they are immediately deactivated. Sounds way too closed and suspicious.
@didocade – A quick search seems to lean toward the idea that CTS operated under a couple of previous names.
The current domain was registered back in 2008 and supposedly launched in 2009. I could not find any mention of them prior to about 2010. But I did stumble across their support center and it states that they have no physical address.
They could shut down and reopen under a different name whenever they wanted to keep out of legal trouble.
@didocade
If they’re intentionally lying low, that’s a pretty strong indication of whether or not cash gifting is legal in the US.
I’d say the reason they haven’t been busted is due to operating under the radar. When you have $600M Ponzi schemes like Zeek Rewards being openly advertised anywhere and everywhere still taking a year and a half to go under it’s no surprise that small schemes go undetected.
Simply put there’s just not enough manpower out there to go after the small fish. Doesn’t make them any less scammy though.
When I read this I just shook my head and feel sorry for David Wood. Life is alot more than accumulating Money and screwing people.
It is really sad and unfortunate that the MLM industry attracts so many David Woods of the world with very questionable ethics, morals and values.
I am in Empower Network guys and I hate to tell you this, but apparently you guys have no idea what you’re talking about. It isn’t anything like you are describing in this article.
You are describing it as someone looking in from the outside, although someone (ahem) was apparently a “member” if they were able to attend the event. The products inside Empower Network we sell are the most powerful I’ve ever seen anywhere hands down! You have to own the products to sell them.
The “member” here reporting on this video apparently hasn’t bought all the products because if they had, there’s no way they would be saying all this stuff that is so far off its actually funny. It’s apparent you guys have no idea what you’re talking about, LOL!
Take it from someone REALLY on the inside that DOES know what they’re talking about. Just get ALL in and do ALL the training, do the 8 core committments, listen to all the inner circle audios, do all the $15K formula videos, get the Costa Rica and the Masters and then when you are done with all that awesome training and making tons of money with it, THEN rewrite this report and I guarantee you you’ll be singing a different tune.
Ah, the “you’re not a member, you don’t know what you’re talking about defense”. Must be straight out of the “badass” rebuttal handbook.
All information pertaining to Empower Network’s business model was sourced directly from the company itself. If they are misrepresenting their business model then there’s an even bigger problem here.
WordPress is powerful, it’s also available for free.
How anyone can claim members are actually buying products through Empower Network when members simply gift a set amount of money each month to their uplines (who must do the same) is beyond me.
You’re not “buying” anything, you’re just giving money to your upline.
Making money doesn’t define an MLM business opportunity, its compensation plan and business model does.
“Badass” fail.
I have learned some way to blog but i dont think i am gonna join to all the programs which arent really necessary.. those guys who earn a lot of money they are buyig clicks.
I dont think it is really necessary concept although i am in Empower Network i havent earned anything. Next month Iam gonna quit.
Empower Network is NOT a gifting program, and you have taken what David wood said out of context, It’s easy to write an article like this one and take everything someone says out of context in order to back your claim.
First of all the money is not funneled to the top, you are paying the person who referred you for the product (Blog Platform and training materials) which help you understand marketing.
I know you claim wordpress is free, but what you get at wordpress is a stripped down blog that requires widgets and plugins. One said plugin called SEO pressor ($47.00 single site or $99.00 unlimited site), which helps you understand your SEO score.
That’s just 1 of the features that comes with the EN blog platform, which is SEO optimised. Poke fun all you want, but I know what EN is about, and while you are poking fun at us, we are laughing hard at you.
Come on now, it’s a bit hard to take “how can I get lots of people to give me money all the time – where they just keep giving it to me all the time” out of context.
Paying 100% of your money for being “referred”? Sounds like gifting to me.
As for the funneling of money? You have to pass up gifted “referring” fees from those you recruit, so does your upline, so does your upline’s upline… right up to the top of the pyramid, where David and David have placed themselves.
Go study the EN compensation plan please.
Doesn’t change the fact that WordPress is free. As for plugins… really, you’re going to justify thousands of people gifting eachother because of a $99 plugin?
Even if the plugins for the domain were $1000 in total, that still doesn’t justify thousands of people gifting $25/$100 eachother each month.
And if you were in actuality paying for plugins or WordPress (which is free), you’d be paying EN, not just gifting your money to your upline.
It’s disheartening that you’d refer to a cash gifting scheme where those at the bottom unable to recruit will ultimately lose out as “fun”, but that’s more of a reflection on yourself and EN than anything else.
WordPress is free yes, but hosting is not. Someone has to pay for the hosting of the WPMU program and the support for the servers it sits on.
Charging someone for a blog that they dont have to maintain is not new or illegal.
You say it’s gifting. But its really just someone overpaying for a blog they can get for free. Nothing illegal about that.
Um, I am a member and I know the comp plan, probably better than you. So because I earn 100% commission on a product sale that makes it gifting?
Can you point me to a link from the FTC that says because someone earns 100% of a PRODUCT sale, that makes it a gifting scheme??
Don’t come with this crap that it’s a FREE blog platform at wordpress. The EN blog is a REAL product, just as are the reaining materials.
Thanks.
I can point you to a link where cash gifting is mentioned as an illegal chain recruiment scheme?
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2002/04/spam.shtm
It didn’t answer what you REALLY asked about, but it answered your question “Can you point me to a link …”.
A cash gifting program is just a pyramid scheme type, where you will have to pay “consideration” to participate in it, where you can earn “financial gains” when other participants are being introduced to the plan.
Cash gifting is typically about CASH, both for “considerations” and for “financial gains”. It’s typically about direct transfers of money between the members, not involving the organiser directly.
The organiser will usually earn money indirectly, e.g. if every fifth cash gift is passed upwards the owner will earn 20%. Or he can earn by selling other products to the participants.
Cash gifting schemes are more commonly organised as “private clubs” rather than as registered companies. They will usually not involve any goods, services or intangible products in the distribution of money among the members.
@EN Member
There’s not much to know given the simplistic nature of it.
If you are handing over 100% of your membership fees to your upline, you’re not purchasing anything, product or otherwise. You’re gifting a sum of money each month to your upline.
See Kasey’s reply. Gifting is illegal in the US.
Facts are facts.
A real product nobody is paying for. You could replace the blog with chopsticks and everyone could still gift eachother each month.
@Jeff
How can you claim Empower Network affiliates are paying for anything when all they do is gift 100% of their membership fees to their upline each month?
Nobody is paying EN for anything.
No my question was point me to a link that shows if I purchase a product and that person gets 100% of the sale show me where that is illigal.
They are NOT membership fees, you are purchasing a monthly subscription for a blog platform which IS a real product.
In that case I am purchasing chop sticks, it’s still a product. Now if you take the chopsticks out of the picture, then that is gifting, but because there are chopsticks involved there is a real product and that sir is not gifting.
You’re not paying for SEOpressor, are you? It has an affiliate program, paying its affiliates a one time 50% commission per sale.
You can buy it and use it, but you can’t sell copies of it in retail to other customers. You can’t charge anyone for using it either, e.g. as a owner of a website. If it’s included as a plugin, it’s free to use without charges.
If anyone has the right to charge any monthly fees for using SEOpressor it will be the owner of the Copyright, not the owner of a website..
Purchasing from who?
Each month you gift 100% of your membership fees to your upline. What do these gifted membership fees actually pay for? Participation in a company wide cash gifting scheme.
If I walk into a restaurant and give $20 to the owner and walk out with some complimentary chopsticks, that doesn’t mean I bought the chopsticks.
Replace chopsticks with blog network, $20 with $25/$100 and add on a cash gifting MLM income opportunity and that’s pretty much EN.
Attaching irrelevant or token products to pyramid and cash gifting scheme membership fees is nothing new.
Actually, in that case, you bought the food, but when asked, you told everybody you really bought the chopsticks. It just happen to come with the food. And the company also told everybody they only sell chopsticks.
My reference to SEO Pressor was just that, a feference. The EN plugin is like pressor it’s not SEO Pressor itself.
It’s obvious you know nothing about how EN works. So first you say replace blog with chopsticks, and now it’s bacl to the blog.
Get over yourself already, EN is a LEGAL as it gets. I am still waiting for that link I asked for in my first post.
Who said anything about food here, Oz was compairing the EN blog to something worthless such as chopsticks.
No matter how you put it it’s still a real product, and that makes it as legal as it can be.
Great article! Looked into this as you have done and it is a Cash Gifting scheme without a doubt – very shady!
@En Member: Why do you have people paying you directly and you paying your upline directly and not paying EN? It’s because there is no real product that they need to be compensated for. WordPress is free.
The template design and any plugins were paid for a long time ago at a nominal fee. Any training materials were a one time cost for them to set up. They even have you get your own payment processor (at an extremely high percentage rate from what I gather).
The answer is because there is no real product.
As a side note, there is a site called ibotoolbox which is a free site to promote your company. Yes, I signed up to check it out. While it could be used for any company, it appears that the majority of the people are involved in MLM.
The purpose appears to get your website noticed and higher Google rankings through the use of press releases and other means. I saw numerous EN people on there which means that just having a EN blog and posting on a regular basis (as the claims go), doesn’t seem to be cutting it.
I did a quick experiment with a free Blogger blog and spent a few minutes writing a submitting a PR. Within hours, I had a front page Google ranking on my keywords. In other words, I was able to achieve the same thing EN promises for free.
The only difference was that I was not able to sign someone up to pay me $25 to do the same thing because what I was doing was free and I was not giving them a product in return for their $25. That is illegal.
@EN
Nobody is debating whether or not WordPress exists, all I’m saying is nobody is paying for it.
Oh and there’s no “EN blog” product, it’s just WordPress – which nobody is buying or paying for because it’s free. All that occurs is a bunch of people gift 100% of their membership fees to eachother each month.
Cash gifting comes under pyramid schemes laws in the US, which is obviously illegal but that’s neither here nor there. We analyse business models here.
Hmm, after looking at EN a bit more. Each person pays $19 per month for the blog, and then $25 just goes to the upline.
So the $19 you actually get value {a blog and hosting)
The $25 is the gift to the upline. ( no value exchanged)
So yes pyramid gifting scheme. (will not last)
I told you it was a type of pyramid scheme / chain recruitment scheme. It’s not regulated by any separate laws about Cash Gifting.
Your question was rather meaningless, and you received the answer you deserved to it. Cash Gifting is just another name for chain recruitment schemes.
Here’s a link:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17337_20942-201450–,00.html
The $19 (actually $19.95) is the cost of the merchant account, E-wallet. The blog is free.
Because once I purchase the product I am considered the owner as long as I am subscribed. Same with the upper level products. I am considered the owned so therefore I can re-sell the product.
Really? so $19.95 a month for an Ecomerce site is a lot? How about Authorize.Net with a $99.00 set up fee and that is $20.00 a month as well, Ewallet has no set up fee.
So then close it down. And close Clickbank down too, they are loaded with digital products just like EN, but by your standards it’s illigal.
BTW do you know how many WordPress membership sites there are out there????? Ohhh I am still waiting for that link.
Okay big man, put your money where you mouth is. Proove to me that the EN blog is NOT a real product…
Yes there are people out there paying for it. If you self host it, then YOU pay for it.
Are you asking him to prove the right thing though?
Nobody said EN isn’t a “real product”. We’re debating what’s it worth. Oz’s position is that EN should be paying YOU for the content, while your position is that you should be paying EN for the hosting.
What does “EN has a real product” have anything to do with this?
The article is based on EN being a product less gifting scheme
@EN Member
Jesus Christ…
And I quote:
Last I checked WordPress owned WordPress, not EN. WordPress give WordPress away for free.
As someone who selfhosts WordPress, I have never paid WordPress a dime.
In any case, all of this is irrelevant because EN members simply gift 100% of their monthly membership fees to eachother. They aren’t purchasing anything other than the ability to recruit new members who will likewise gift them payments each months.
Clickbank is not MLM or a cash gifting scheme and is therefore irrelevant.
Unless they are cash gifting schemes paying with an MLM compensation structure they are irrelevant.
This is from Wikipedia (with cited sources for reference you are welcome to check yourself):
Further requests for a link clarifying that cash gifting pyramid schemes are illegal will be marked as spam.
Once again, total Badass fail.
Comprehension fail too.
The article is actually based on EN being a gifting scheme with products nobody is actually paying for.
As evidenced by the fact that each month EN members gift 100% of their membership fee to their upline.
You’re asking the wrong question, so you can’t expect any meaningful answers, other than the answers you already have got.
* You’re asking specifically for FTC, but Cash Gifting will more often be more similar to traditional pyramid schemes than to promotional pyramids. They are usually not handled by the FTC, but by local state laws. They may also be handled by Lottery Laws or Gambling Laws rather than Commercial Laws.
* You’re asking specifically about commissions. Pyramid schemes are not about commissions, but about “chain recruitment of participants”, “considerations” and “financial gains”.
Here’s your question:
You have received 2 links, FTC and Michigan AG, both showing you that cash gifting schemes are illegal chain recruitment schemes.
You will need to improve your own questions before you can expect any meaningful answers.
BTW, attaching a product to a pyramid or cash gifting scheme won’t make it become more legit. It will still be an illegal scheme, with a product attached to it. And it will still be a distribution of money among the participants even if you give it other names.
Yes I know cash gifting is illegal, that was not what I asked. I asked for someone to show me that if I sell my product and get 100% of the sale that is illegal.
(Ozedit: removed spam)
“Your” product? You don’t own WordPress or EN’s hosting server so are in effect paying for nothing.
What you and every other EN member is doing however is gifting 100% of your monthly membership fee (which allows you to participate in the scheme) to your upline.
If people were in fact buying something they’d be paying EN for it and receiving a cut of the commission on the sale of said product. But they’re not, so it’s gifting.
Perhaps you just refuse to see the analogy by dismissing it out of hand.
This is a good discussion but I did have to throw in my 2 cents.
Correct me if I am wrong but is the basis of this article to use the things that Dave Wood said in the summit to validate your claim that EN is a cash gifting program or that it is a cash gifting program because they sell an EN optimized blog that yes I know you can get for free and buy your own hosting?
No, that’s NOT what Oz said.
“EN Optimized” is a myth. EN’s domain got a higher rank because they convinced thousands of other people to put content on their domain, so SEO leads to that domain.
But instead of paying people for all that content (Hubpages, Squidoo, etc.), they are CHARGING people for hosting all that content.
And the money doesn’t go straight to EN, but rather, to those people who referred you to EN.
This article focuses more on the former, but it’s a follow on from the initial Empower Network review I did which focuses on the latter.
Okay so is this article an an update based on what David Wood said to validate your claim that EN is cash gifting? My 2 cents is that these quotes that you highlight can honestly only be seen from your perspective?
Regardless if your money comes from a job, career, business, or charity the only way to actually get money from any of these sources is if someone gives it to you. This is how I take that statement from the outside of this argument looking in.
Do you think that some of the quotes that you list can be looked at from different perspectives. I understand that this is your forum so of course your perspective is the one this site even exist.
If you bothered to read the BehindMLM Empower Network review, you’d know the answer to this question.
The cash gifting presentation was merely an observation which just happened to support the cash gifting findings following analysis of Empower Networks’ business model and compensation plan.
With exception to the last one, nobody is “giving” you anything. You earn it.
Giving and earning are not the same thing, regardless of what cash gifting participants and supporters might tell you.
No. Wood’s comments are obviously in reference to gifting and given Empower Network’s compensation plan, this is hardly co-incidental.
If I tell the world “apples” and then go on to start a business based on the concept of “apples”, you’re suggesting I might have actually meant to say “oranges”.
Replace apples with cash gifting and oranges with “different perspectives” and that’s pretty much what you’re trying to suggest. I’m a big fan of “the simplest explanation”.
Wood gets on a state and gives a presentation on cash gifting, a few months later he starts an MLM company with a cash gifting compensation plan. This isn’t rocket science…
Not at all.
In a “job” you are selling your labour to the employer at an agreed rate.
There is no “giving” involved.
Sorry to get you upset because I did read your first review and based my question on the way that this review is presented. I am not sure what in my question caused you to assume that I did not read the previous review.
You saying that no one is “giving” you anything, you earn it in my opinion is all in wording because whether you earn it or not in order for you to have money in you possession someone has to give it to you.
If you work and earn $200 somebody has to give it to you in order for you to have it. So, your response here merely just worded to change the perspective of the reader. I have a job that I work 40hours a week at and I “earn” a paycheck. Even though I “earn” a check somebody has to “give” it to me.
This is the same as having a website, that I will put on record does a good job of reporting on different companies, that is presented as presented as “to provide the public with relevant and accurate MLM information, news and company reviews.” but on the other hand in certain situations, not all or most, present certain things in a way to validate your claims.
While I don’t think you do this with every review I did think that this particular article was not presented in an unbiased way.
Your apples and oranges analogy “in my opinion” does not hold serve. But thank you for your continued service to the industry as you have many reviews that are awesome.
If you’re talking about this article, it’s not a review. Not every article published on BehindMLM is a review.
My opinion has not changed since first analysing the Empower Network business model.
Giving something to someone is a gift. Earning money for work is entirely different.
You can try to wordsmith all you want but they are entirely different concepts.
You earnt that money, you weren’t given it. Your time was exchanged for payment.
You and I both know in the absense of mentioning work or a job, that David Wood was not talking about doing work and having someone “give” you a salary in the literal sense. As above, a salary is “given” in exchange for time, it is not simply given as a gift, which is clearly the context of Wood’s presentation.
“How can I get people to give me money all the time?”
By all means point out any factual errors in the analysis presented.
This article was a follow on from analysis of the Empower Network business model. I’d agree without the compensation plan and business model analysis it could be perceived as bias as there’d be no solid foundation for the specific interpretation of Wood’s specific wording.
Given that the business model was thoroughly analysed prior to publication of this article though, your claims fall flat.
Again, feel free to point out any factual errors in the above analysis. Your “what if we pretend he’s talking about oranges when he’s clearly not” logic isn’t going to cut it.
I maintain that Wood’s specific terminology regarding gifting in the cited presentation, when combined with the compensation plan of the company he went on to co-found just months later, is no co-incidence.
Okay that answers my questions as I thought that this was a review of your intial post. This article must must be based on your desire to provide the public with relevant and accurate MLM information and news.
We can split hairs all day on on how we want to phrase it, but I have had plenty of jobs in the past that did not give me what I have earned.
So if we are splitting hairs on the “give” and “earned” word usage to describe how income comes into your possession can have an influence on what the message Dave Wood was presenting. and felt what David Wood validates your claim that EN is cash gifting.
I understand your perspective though…..agree to disagree 🙂 respectfully
That’s great, doesn’t change the fact that you earnt the money (an exchange of your time for payment) as opposed to having it given to you.
When you consider Empower Network is a cash gifting scheme and then have a listen to David Wood just a few months before he co-founded the company, there’s nothing to disagree on.
When you consider
I think it is regardless of opinion on that ever is being “considered” one could agree or disagree on everything.
the fact that you earnt the money (an exchange of your time for payment
I know you cannot earn money in anything without the exchange for time so at least we agree on one thing. I knew it could happen 🙂
EN being a cash gifting scheme and Wood describing a cash gifting scheme in his presentation aren’t “opinions”, they’re facts.
EN is a cash gifting scheme based on analysis of the compensation plan and business model.
Wood described a cash gifting scheme (people giving him money all the time (monthly) based on his presentation description exactly fitting the definition of a cash gifting scheme.
You’re choosing to disagree based on opinion, but that does not change the above facts.
Glad to see you’ve come around. Earning is most definitely not the same as having someone “give” you money (which in MLM equates to participation in a gifting scheme).
Sounds like you two simply have a disagreement on the value of what EN offers.
Oz’s view is that blog platform is free (or nearly free that it is easily covered by a few ads or the SEO / promo value it presented) thus all payment is essentially cash gifting
Ray’s view is that you actually really PAY for the blog platform and disagrees with Oz’s view on what the payment constitutes. However, Ray has failed to explain where the money goes (if you get blog from EN, you should be paying EN, right?)
100% of the money goes to your upline, who don’t own the EN domain or pay for the hosting of the EN blog. How is that not cash gifting?
K. Chang I am glad that you at least acknowledge that human being can actually have two different view points while looking at the same thing.
My view is that you are not being the blogging platform template from EN you are buying it from an affiliate that owns the template. EN has a separate monthly fee that goes to EN to be an affiliate.
I believe that you are accurate on this assessment as one may view no value in a EN template optimized blog and someone else may. One person may not see value in the other products that are sold and someone else may see tremendous value.
I guess however you view it is based on what you are looking for.
If you are looking for ways to view the business model and what Wood says as cash gifting that is “YOUR” personal viewpoint, but it does not change the FACT that someone else can look at the business model, products, and what Wood says as a valuable educational resource to learn marketing skills online where you can put in the TIME and WORK to LEARN what they teach.
Are there other educational resources available to teach these same things for free, or at a different price point? ABSOLUTELY!
My view is that the sell of each product 100% commissions goes to the person who took the time to sell the product. EN makes there money based on affiliate fees and compensation business model.
Again this is my “view”
So as an EN affiliate if I am paying my upline directly because they “own the template”, why is my upline paying their upline each month for the template too?
Why are EN members paying their uplines for something they already own?
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
As it stands, monetary wise the EN networks have a value of $0. Nobody is paying for them.
The concept of cash gifting is not a “view point”, it’s a specific business model which Wood describes to the ‘T’ in his presentation (lots of people giving him money all the time).
It also happens to be the perfect definition of EN’s MLM compensation plan (lots of people giving eachother money, all the time (monthly)).
Of course it doesn’t. Likewise seeing at such does nothing to change the fact that the MLM business model is still cash gifting. You’re trying to shift the goalposts based on perceived (non-monetary) value of EN’s products.
I’ve never questioned the (non-monetary) value of the product, only the EN business model. Arguing that there’s a monetary value to EN’s products is a moot point because nobody is actually paying EN for them.
1. How can EN members sell EN products and yet you claim that EN only make money off of afiliate fees?
2. EN make no money themselves via the compensation plan (commissions) as it’s just members gifting members 100% of their monthly membership fees.
The above points aren’t “views” or “opinions”, they’re cold hard facts.
Ah, but having different views doesn’t mean both views are equally valid. 🙂 There are occasional situations where information is incomplete that could cause such difference in viewpoints, but whose view is “more” valid and fits more of the facts? That is the question.
Great Point
This is an inaccurate statement! Not based on opinion, but fact because the company receives pass-ups as well and based on your statement you did not know this.
I am not exactly sure what you mean by “perceived value” or non-monetary value?
Either someone see’s value or they don’t, value isnt something that is perceived. My 2 year olds blanket is of value where someone else may see it as just a regular blanket.
This is another inaccurate statement, because the compensation plan is structured where affiliate pass up sales themselves to the company. I did not see this FACT stated in the previous or current review/update/viewpoint
Because they agreed to buy a product that has a monthly fee associated with it in order for you to own it. My satellite radio in my car is mine……..I own that service as long as I DECIDE to keep paying for it.
I am not trying to convince or sway you to my way of thinking, my mere observation of this article as a follow up to your previous post on EN had some inaccuracy’s in your comments that are based on your viewpoints more than actual facts.
Agree to disagree!
I’m sorry what? David Wood and David Sharpe receive gifting passups as affiliates.
Are you suggesting EN as a company have an affiliate account above David Wood and David Sharpe?
Why is the company not presented with a gigantic oversized check then at it’s various events?
Perceived value is your personal value, monetary is a fixed dollar amount, dictated by the market.
EN give their products away for free as long as members participate and continue to gift their uplines 100% of their membership fees.
Given that nobody pays EN for their products, the products haveno monetary value. Any perceived personal value is irrelevant to analysis of the business model.
As per the EN compensation plan, members gift eachother each month – right up to David Wood and David Sharpe, who have positioned themselves at the top of the cash gifting pyramid.
The company itself makes no revenue from these monthly cash gifting payments (the compensation plan).
Again, if each month members are paying to own the product, how on Earth are they buying it from their uplines who also must pay each month to own it. How can you sell something you don’t own until you’ve paid for it each montha long with everyone else in your downline?
Let’s face it, affiliates obviously don’t own the EN blog, web hosting, WordPress template or EN domain. They have no control over it and it is bundled with monthly gifting fees as a service, not a tangible product they can do with as they see fit.
Your satellite radio analogy falls short because the company you buy it from owns the product. You’re not buying it from an individual (not employed by the satellite company) who is also paying to own the product each month whilst simultaenously charging (and keeping 100% of the fee you pay) you to “own” the product.
Your satellite radio service is also not an MLM business opportunity and is thus irrelevant.
I’ll continue to wait patiently for you to disprove one fact presented in the analysis.
There is nothing to disagree on, because the above is based on factual analysis of the EN business model and compensation plan – not personal opinion and interpretation as your own “views” are.
I really think the whole pass up part of the compensation plan from where I see it proves the author’s cash gifting argument.
Unless I am missing something, the members are making a point that they earn 100% commission for working hard to make a sale. However certain sales are passed up to the one who sold them.
If I understand correctly, you could also receive the commission from a “buyer” on one product while the second product you sold to the same “buyer” gets passed up and that continues all the way up to the top.
I am not well versed in comp plans but are there other legitimate companies in MLM, Network Marketing or Direct Sales that have pass ups similar to this?
The “pass-up” comp plan is known as the Aussie 2-up. Len Clements, a MLM expert (though usually pro-MLM) had this to say about it:
http://www.marketwaveinc.com/viewarticle.asp?id=4
So, there you go. Even pro-MLM folks say it’s a bad idea. 🙂
Good discussion
So your research of talking to the owners have confirmed that the company makes no revenue?
“Gifting” is how you view it.
Whether you view it as bad or not only time will tell. I view that their products have a monetary and non monetary value because of the educational value.
We shall all see how this plays out, but either way i know that MANY people will be able to use the education that is sold in EN to enhance their marketing skills in any other area of business or marketing that they may be involved in. MLM or not.
Thanks for the discussion!
But the owner sits at the top of the chain, doesn’t he?
So he makes money at the top, even though the company itself may not.
So who’s REALLY paying for the hosting? Hmmm?
@ray
Couldn’t care less what the owners say, unless of course they’re grossly misrepresenting their business model via their compensation plan (in which case they have much bigger problems to worry about).
The cash gifting claim is not a view, it’s a factual conclusion based on analysis of Empower Network’s compensation plan.
I’d consider ignoring the compensation plan and talking to owners grossly deficient due diligence.
The education is irrelevant (and no, nobody is paying for them). How EN earn their commissions is all that matters.
How does that happen? Each month their downlines gift 100% of their membership fees to them.
The education is irrelevant
This is where the conversation must stop……..if you personally view this education as irrelevant then I COMPLETELY understand why there is a difference in opinion.
We will see how it plays out
We’re discussing Empower Network’s business model and MLM commission structure, of which the education is completely irrelevant to.
You could replace the education with a bar of soap, bags of dogfood or used tampons and it wouldn’t make a difference to how EN affiliate’s are paid out (pay your upline $25/$100 a month for the opportunity to recruit people who pay the same to you).
Why this news to you I have no idea. If you wish to discuss the merits of the education Empower Network offers, there’s plenty of marketing sites and Empower Network cheerleading blog entries out there.
🙂
I hope you find joy in your day 🙂
Cheers.
@Ray, there are SEVERAL things that determines the legitimacy of the company… the principals (who’s running it?), the products (what is it selling?), the business model / comp plan (how does it make money and how does it pay the affiliates), and other misc compliance stuff like registration and such.
You may be able to argue that the some products (education) are worth something, but when it’s mixed in with a relatively worthless blog you have an uphill battle.
Perhaps you need to ask… how many of the affiliates actually avail themselves to the education?
@ K. Chang
As I left with Oz we will all see how the business plays out, whether it proves to be legit or not.
My arguement is simply that I do not believe that educational tools cannot be considered of having no value monetary or not.
Im sure that we can all agree that education is of extreme value or else sites like this would not exist, as Oz is using this platform to educate and provide value to the work from home industry as a whole.
I am not knocking that at all because I do think there is value in what Oz provides.
Perhaps you need to ask… how many of the affiliates actually avail themselves to the education?
I have actually talked to quiet a few and like any thing else there is a MAJOR difference in results and opinions between the ones that do and the ones that don’t. I find this to be true of any MLM/networking marketing/ etc…….
In analysis of an MLM compensation plan and business model, the monetary value is all that matters.
Are customers (be they affiliates or retail) paying for the product or something else. Gifting 100% of their membership fees to eachother, clearly in EN network participants are simply paying for the opportunity to recruit new affiliates who in turn gift their fees to them.
Cash gifting schemes by definition cannot be legit. There is a serious fundamental flaw in the business model when you’re relying on a constant new injection of new recruits paying membership fees at the bottom to pay out those at the top.
This will end in two ways:
1. Members at the bottom will be unable to find new recruits and stop paying their monthly gifting fees. Those above them will stop earning commissions and also stop paying their monthly gifting fees etc. This is called a pyramid scheme collapse.
2. They’ll be shutdown by someone, at which point affiliates and figureheads in the MLM industry will claim that they “had no idea” EN was a cash gifting scheme, “never saw this coming” and are pretty sure “it was never meant to be a cash gifting scheme when it launched”.
Oz I thought we finished off with cheers 🙂
Are customers (be they affiliates or retail) paying for the product or something else. Gifting
I believe this to be the biggest factor in your analysis and based on your view or my view the we shall see who is right respectfully.
This will end in two ways:
You are right it could, neither you or I know 100% what the future holds for EN or any business or person. However their is a third possibility…………EN continues to grow at the rate that it has for the past 2 years.
I am sure you are aware of what studies have shown on MLM/Networking companies in there 2-3 year of operation.
So as I left it with you earlier……..we shall all see 🙂
There are no customers in Empower Network, only affiliates. Choosing not to recruit does not make you a customer.
As per the EN compensation plan, we don’t need to wait and see anything. You’re already wrong.
Of course not, although my track record speaks for itself. Well I suppose it’s not really my track record, anyone can analyse a business model and identify weaknesses and sustainability fallacies.
Please don’t bundle cash gifting schemes into the same category as long-standing retail product-based MLM companies. They are apples and oranges.
So you’re going to ignore the cash gifting compensation plan and go with blind optimism. Best of luck to you.
I do not claim to know 100% of the companies that you have analyzed. And this is not to be funny or sarcastic but have you been 100% correct on every company that you have analyzed?
Again based on YOUR anaylsis of EN YOU have found it to be a cash gifting scheme and compensation plan
So I guess we will see if you are correct because there have been other programs in the past that have been accused of this same thing you are saying and ended up be legit. So I do not understand your blind optimism comment.
We can agree that we both respectfully will see if you are correct or not. Either way you have received ALOT of traffic to your site and I have learned a TRREMENDOUS amount of education from the EN products.
That is not a plug and my trying to sell on your blog but merely a fact that is relevant for the long term. Both of us will have received value.
@ray
When it comes to the business models, yes. It’s quite simple to follow the money.
The rest is mostly research and errors can and have been made (dollar figures here and there and usually backgrounds on admins etc.). I entirely stand by the 100% accuracy rate when it comes to analysis of business models (methodology and money trail) though.
I note you’re now attempting to divert attention onto myself, away from the factual analysis of EN’s business model. Won’t get you very far I’m afraid.
Feel free to point out how it’s not a cash gifting scheme, given that participants in a cash gifting scheme gift eachother money and not the scheme (company) they are participating in.
So along with blind optimism, you’re going to add made up “facts” to the mix too? Like I said, I good luck with that.
Neither of which is relevant in analysis of the EN business model.
I can’t help but notice that you didn’t answer the question. 🙂
@ k chang
no your right I cant given you an exact number of affiliates that I have spoken to and asked that questions but it has been quite a few. I apologize for not keeping an exact count on how many 🙂
@ OZ
just so Im clear 100% of the companies business models that you have analyzed have turned out to be a scam or scheme?
What do you mean by this?
This is no attempt to divert any attention away from EN and on to you but merely a question to validate there being a basis to have a difference in opinion on how EN operates.
You have made comments before about how the company does not make any money because everyone is just gifting eachother…….well I am not the professional on analyzing companies but I know for a FACT how the company gets its money however I will leave it to you the professional to put that information out there.
Your statement that no one is paying the company is inaccurate. You can research that.
So are you honestly trying to tell me that no company has ever been called a scam or scheme by a few critics and turned out to be totally legit??? That is wearing a pretty big pair of blinders if so.
That’s somewhat of a derail, isn’t it? We’re talking about Empower, not “other companies that have been vindicated” (if they exist).
@ray
Nothing “turns out” to be anything. Based on analysis of the business model, it either is or it isn’t a “scam or scheme”.
To date I’m unaware of being wrong on a call of a business model, based on analysis of a compensation plan (money flow).
Sometimes admins hide their details and I have to work with what I can ascertain. In these situations usually group information clarifies points (or the admin themselves) and information gets corrected.
Rarely if ever do I have to modify compensation plan analysis, and when I do it’s usually just misquoted figures here or there. The money flow side of things is solid and I take great care to make sure it is.
I’ll sometimes take days to get my head around a compensation plan if at first I can’t work out where the money comes from and how it is paid out.
There’s no need to have an opinion.
Fact: EN members gift 100% of their monthly membership fees to eachother each month, with members passing up said payments on multiple levels.
Fact: The above is the exact definition of an MLM cash gifting scheme.
Leave opinion out of the discussion please.
The company gets money via the $19.95 pay to play fee. This is not commissionable.
Not on this website. I couldn’t care less about “a few critics”, stop shifting the goalposts.
Anyway enough derailing. Either disprove that EN is a cash gifting scheme or stop trying to derail the discussion. “Other companies” are irrelevant.
This is not the only way that the company gets money, which is the main point that I am making.
It is not my job, website, or position to disprove anything to you however with your incomplete facts on how EN gets money, opinions on whether this is a cash gifting scheme or not will vary.
Now once you include the full details of how EN gets its money I will not “derail” your discussion as I me you and k chang have been the only ones having a discussion with each other lol.
My other companies comment was no attempt to derail, just merely to support my position that there can be different opinions about businesses and the only way any of us will ever know is to see how they end up.
Obviously there have and are MANY that obviously are schemes or scams, but like I said we will see with EN.
🙂 Cheers 🙂
As per the compensation plan, yes it is. The compensation plan is all that matters in MLM.
If EN are misrepresenting the business via a misleading and factually incorrect business model, as stated previouslt then we have even bigger problems here.
Great. Then stop wasting my time.
Facts are facts and EN fits the cash gifting MLM business model to a ‘T’. End of story.
LOL wasting your time…….didnt know putting my opinion on a blog was wasting anyones time. If I am wasting your dont read or respond what I write.
This is irrelevant to your EN argument.
You asked me to disaprove your claim, my response is that with all of your experience in analyzing companies there are things which you have stated that are inaccurate.
As per the compensation plan the affiliate fee is NOT the only way that the company receives money. This is a FACT that you have not stated or researched or just may not even know.
If you continue to state that the only way the companies gets money is from affiliate fees that is an inaccurate statement.
End of story……respectfully
@ray: When you pass up your 2, 4, 6 and every 5th sale after that, who are you passing them up to – your sponsor or EN direct?
(Ozedit: you were warned, either prove that the EN compensation plan is wrong regarding company revenue or stop claiming that it is and wasting everybody’s time)
@ray: No. The question I asked is who does the passed up sales go to.
Yes, I already knew the answer but wanted to see if you avoided it. And you did. The passed up sales go to the sponsor. This, as Oz has stated, is gifting.
Oz… Have a look at this. Clipped from Facebook:
@ray
It’s not a claim, it’s fact based on the EN compensation plan.
Like I said, stop wasting mine and my reader’s time then.
Yes, yes it is. Either prove otherwise or stop wasting my time with your “you just don’t get it, I know the real story” crap.
(future comments that claim the EN revenue based on their compensation plan is wrong without provided proof will be marked as spam)
@Max
Kind of says it all really doesn’t it.
Here is my proof, research and see what is all the way at the top of the compensation plan. Have you done that? and it is not Dave and Dave.
(Ozedit: Sorry about the missing comment. I read the first part and hit spam, then when I was going through my spam list read it again and unspammed it but it didn’t save. Then it was lost when I cleared the spam bin.
I was waiting for you to publish another comment so I could republish what you wrote as above)
Empower Network itself cannot participate legitimately as an affiliate with Dave and Dave passing up commissions to it.
Dave Wood: “how can I get people to keep sending me money, all the time.”
And you still haven’t proved anything. Post a link to the EN company affiliate account recruitment capture page. What it the company’s affiliate account name?
Given the checks D&D parade around their events, it’s obvious the Daves are at the top of the gifting pyramid with the entire Empower Network affiliate base gifting up commissions to them.
And even if the company has an affiliate account (which is a red flag in itself), that doesn’t change the mechanics of the compensation plan which still functions as a member-funded cash gifting scheme.
If EN took 80% of the money and paid out 20% to affiliates, would that be OK?
Compensation wise sure, as it would demonstrate affiliates actually paying for the service EN offers (access to a blog network).
Note that 80% could be any percentage. As it stands now affiliates are paying EN nothing and simply gifting eachother.
What it would not do though is address the fact that WordPress is free. This fact pretty much negates an MLM compensation structure tied into offering of a WordPress powered blogging service.
Single level affiliate opportunities can get away with marketing access to WordPress blogs (and many SEO blog networks do), however MLM is strongly tied into the monetary value of the product.
You couldn’t, for example, get away with marketing a $2 bottle of milk for $900 even if you only kept 1% of the sale and gave the rest away in commissions. If you were paying out on multiple levels you’d get busted over the value of your product.
Why?
No retail customer would pay $900 for a $2 bottle of milk. The only people purchasing the product would be affiliates attached to the comp plan.
With WordPress being free, the same applies to EN – regardless of whether they are paying out 90%, 50% or as you put it 20%.
Would you pay for access to a service that held no monetary value because it’s free without an MLM compensation plan attached to it?
No. And neither would any other EN affiliate.
And before anyone chimes in with a SEO argument. First and foremost subdomains and even pages off the EN domain itself have individual pagerank. Link wise, EN would have never gotten off the ground without the attached cash gifting compensation plan, so they are not independent of eachother.
All of the SEO benefits touted today are only a there as a result of the cash gifting scheme attached to the domain. There is nothing special or unique about the EN domain itself or the subdomains affiliate’s are given.
What value would you give a WordPress blog that was all set up with advertising, hosting, naming and ready to go.
I ask this because I have had 2 blogs in the past and lost them through 1. my inexperience in not keeping backup and it disappearing overnight taking 6 months work with it, and 2. my hosting service going broke and disappearing overnight.
I doubt this would happen with EN as the 2 owners are extremely experienced in blogging plus the blogging platform is marketed as the cheap entry to the business.
When I asked about the company keeping 80%, I was referring to the training products, not the WordPress blogging platform. All of the products pay 100% commission (less admin costs) EXCEPT for the latest product, Costa Rica Masters, which costs $3,500 with $3,000 to upline and $500 to the company.
PS love your work Oz
Attached to a gifting scheme? Nothing.
On its own when we’re talking a replicated theme hosted on a subdomain, any inherent value is severely diminished. That and the true value of a blog is always going to lie in the content.
In any case, it’s all irrelevant because of the giant gifting scheme the EN blog network is attached to. You can’t place a value on something that nobody is paying for.
I will state however that a WordPress hosted blog is free, you don’t get a domain with EN so what they offer is essentially the same – hell it’s the same platform.
Whack on some plugins and you’ve got EN, minus the attached cash gifting scheme.
The so-called “cash gifting” inside Empower Network between affiliates could not happen unless tied to the products. In other words, when I give someone in my upline $500, I get access to Costa Rica Intensive, an 11 video course of approx 30 mins each.
EN could decide to keep $400 of that and just let the upline have $100 as commission for selling it to me. However the company has decided as incentive to let affiliates keep 100% of all product sales except the latest one Costa Rica Masters, where EN keeps $500.
Wood and Sharpe have obviously modeled EN on MLSP, but taken all the setup techie stuff out of it. Do you consider MLSP to be a cash gifting scheme?
What are you talking about? You can totally ignore the blog platform and just keep gifting your upline and recruit others who then gift to you.
In terms of compensation plan, the person you are gifting to (who does not give any money to Costa Rica) cannot possibly be selling you something they do not own.
Thus you are simply gifting money to another member in the scheme, with EN observing this and rewarding you for your participation. Had you of been actually paying EN for access to their event, that would be a different story.
Thus they are not sales, but gift payments. EN affiliates do not run the events, EN does and nobody is paying them.
No idea, haven’t looked at it. If it involves 100% commissions being paid out on multiple levels however, then it most certainly is. They left that scheme to start their own, I wonder why.
For someone that is very knowledgeable about the industry such as yourself OZ, I think it shows a lack of responsibility to your viewership to make this statement that you have no idea, haven’t looked, and they left that scheme” when as you said you don’t even know MLSP.
This is about Empower but to prove the point that was made about EN comparison to MLSP was made. I think that the question was a really good one and I would like to see a good response in reference to the cash gifting that according to your analysis is taking place.
Would you rather I lie about it and make stuff up? If Sharpe and Wood are still with MLSP then I retract that part of my statement. Otherwise I have no idea what you’re on about.
If MLSP offer 100% commissions paid out over multiple levels in a similar fashion to EN, then obviously they too are a gifting scheme.
Oz, I go back to an earlier statement you made:
I then asked the question:
And you replied in part:
At what stage does this commission payout go from reward for selling company products to cash gifting? 80%, 90%, 99%, 100%?
Wood and Sharpe are affiliates, just like all the other members. I guess that is why they can run the biz at bare bones and give everyone 100% commissions cos they are receiving the same deal.
I also wonder if they are charging around 12% commission on their latest product, Costa Rica Masters, because of accusations of cash gifting – but that’s just a guess on my part.
If you are correct and it is operating illegally as a cash gifting scheme, it would be easily fixed by charging, say, 1% commission on all sales.
Looking forward to your analysis mate.
100% is gifting with nothing being bought or sold.
If you drop that percentage you can still be a pyramid scheme if you’re massively overcharging a product simply to pay out commissions.
Ie. An MLM company selling torn up bits of newpaper for 10c with affiliates paying $100 a month on autoship for with $99.90 being paid out in commissions would quite obviously be a pyramid scheme.
Why?
Lack of value and obviously no retail customers.
If such a company existed of course we’d still get members here swearing black and blue the value of the newspaper and how everyone was in actuality buying and selling a product.
As above, this won’t work. WordPress is free and has no monetary value.
I’ve yet to see a legit MLM company with owners competing against their affiliate base. Food for thought.
You’re not selling PRODUCTS, you’re selling MEMBERSHIPS to an income opportunity. And income opportunities are normally illegal to sell.
To sell a product, you must first own the right to sell it. You don’t own the right to sell WordPress or WP Plug-ins in retail, only the right to use them.
What about the hosting?
Yes, that could probably be tradeable, but it isn’t very realistic that people would buy the hosting for $40 per month.
We will simply ignore all “constructed theories” people are using to defend what they’re doing. It’s simply plain BS, and they probably know it themselves, too. 🙂
We have heard more than enough people trying to brainwash themselves into “being compliant”, e.g. “this is not an investment, we’re purchasing sample bids”.
The hosting, WP and plug-ins are simply a method to organise the income opportunity, with the organisers at the top. You’re paying for the income opportunity itself, not for the organising of it.
What I find interesting is it is generally the same people who complain about unwarranted government intrusion in their lives who will put themselves in the position of being the victim of a pyramid scheme.
Pyramid and ponzi schemes are illegal BECAUSE they don’t work as promised and BECAUSE by far the vast majority will lose money.
Not simply because some bureaucrat decided he or she doesn’t like them.
It’s a simple choice.
If people want to participate in MLM schemes which choose to operate in a grey area, that’s their choice.
Smart people, on the other hand, would be far more likely to look at the number of MLMs available and CHOOSE one which CHOOSES to remain unambiguously “legally” AND “morally” sustainable.
My questions are all referring to the training products, not the blog platform.
And I have seen similar products online that are more expensive than those inside EN.
I’m not trying to justify anything, just trying to be objective about it as you are Oz and get an honest complete analysis of the EN biz.
You can’t be selective when it comes to the compensation plan, it’s all connected.
In any case, you’re not purchasing training when you gift 100% of the money you supposedly paid for the training to your upline. Your upline doesn’t own the rights to or market the product themselves. How could they? They themselves never paid for it either.
EN sees you gift money to your upline and sends you the training. No money is actually paid to EN itself, they just reward you for participating in their gifting scheme.
If a tiny proportion of the “sale” is being sent to EN, then one needs to look at whether it represents the value of what’s supposedly being purchased. If not, it’s just another attempt to skirt laws on gifting and what I refer to as psuedo bullshit compliance.
You can thank similar schemes such as “we’re not investing, we’re buying penny auction bids to give away to real customers!” for birthing that term.
What, and you think I’m not? Any opinions I form of an MLM company are only after thorough analysis of their business model and compensation plan.
If my upline did not pay for a product I buy (there are currently 5), they do not receive my payment.
After I have paid for a product, and used it (or not), and I then go and recruit someone else to buy that same product, I then earn a commission. For example, most businesses on Clickbank sell their products this way. And I don’t even have to own the Clickbank product to be able to sell it.
In EN, you cannot earn commission on a sale unless you own the product. Do you have a problem with the word “own”? Is it OK for me to “own” a Clickbank product but not an EN product?
But you didn’t earn a commission. You either pocket the sales proceeds, or pass it up to your upline.
@K.Chang – yes, I pocket the sales proceeds. Just another way of saying I earned 100% commission.
Then what does the seller get out of it?
Incorrect. If your upline don’t gift money to their uplines each month, they don’t qualify to receive your gifting payment.
Gifting an EN member 100% of your fees each month isn’t buying a product.
They’re not buying a product either. You gift your upline, recruit someone who then gifts you. You’re not paying for products.
I’m going to stop you there because that’s horseshit.
Clickbank isn’t MLM. Being a single level affiliate program, if Clickbank product creators were selling through affiliates at 100% commissions they’d be making no money.
Given that nobody is buying the product from EN, you don’t own anything. You don’t own WordPress, the EN domain or their hosting.
EN let you access all of the above in exchange for participating in their gifting scheme. If you don’t gift your upline, no EN blog for you.
I didn’t say Clickbank was MLM. This what I said –
I’m talking about the method of product sale – people receiving a commission for selling something someone else made and still owns, whether single level or multi level.
And yes, Clickbank couldn’t sell products with 100% commissions. But EN can and does, on 4 out of 5 of their products. Maybe the commission made on one is enough to cover the costs of the other 4?
So don’t waste my time with it then.
Clickbank don’t use an MLM business model and are as such irrelevant.
Nobody is selling anything in Empower Network because nobody is paying the company for anything. In Clickbank you pay the owner of the product who pays a commission on that sale to the affiliate who made the sale.
The affiliate making the sale is selling the product or service from the source, through Clickbank.
In EN you just gift your upline each month, which qualifies you to recruit new members who in turn gift you each month.
Gift more money to your upline to qualify for larger gifting payments from your downline.
Any further comments trying to compare Clickbank to EN will be suitably marked as spam.
I was just searching for your review of MLSP but there isn’t one. It’s been around since 2008 and I was a previous member, like a lot of EN affiliates.
They have recently made some changes such as 100% commissions on some of their products. I’m not sure of all the details but would be interested to hear your analysis as a comparison to the EN model.
I’ll add MLSP to the review list if they’re not on there already (it’s a long list).
Just wanted to say that WordPress might be free but Empower Network (of which I am not a member) runs a site that is valuable to members because it is getting high search engine rankings and lots of traffic.
This makes is it a good place to post articles etc.
(Ozedit: removed offtopic comments)
@Harry
According to Alexa just 5.3% of the traffic to the Empower Network domain was from search engines. That’s some heavy duty search engine ranking right there.
The rest of the traffic of course is EN’s affiliates participating in the income opportunity and the result of their marketing efforts to recruit new affiliates.
But no, it’s the search engine rankings that are “valuable”. Rightio.
Hey OZ
You should be a FTC Agent or something. Why waste time blogging where you don’t get anything. Your analytical skills should get you a J.O.B at FTC agency.
@AJP
Thanks for the suggestion but I don’t see blogging as a waste of time.
hey guys i joined EN the first day of this month. I got few more days before my subscription expires but I already cancelled my account just now. It’s not for me. I can’t play mind games just to earn money.
I have to start again and search for another opportunity with little to no investment if possible. Can you suggest one or two please? anything but legit and does not require tricking (weird tricks) people. it’s holy week alright.
The problem with “recommendations” is twofold… First, any one who hates this website will claim it’s some sort of a bias (against anything that’s NOT chosen), and two, the opportunity that does NOT involve trickery is quite rare indeed.
Instead, I’d recommend you use what I termed… “mom test”.
Would my mom use this product without reservation? (Not just because I asked her to?)
Would my mom put her money into this company? (Not because I asked her to?)
Would my mom be proud of me if I did (put my money into this company)?
Of course, this would require you to be VERY VERY HONEST TO YOURSELF, and self-deception is a common skill among MLMers.
Signs of Zeek being a Ponzi had been out there for years had anyone bothered to look. Even when this website and other critics pointed the signs out, there are still people lining outside Zeek office in NC BEGGING Zeek to take their money because they are convinced it’s NORMAL to expected DAILY profit of 1-3% by doing minimal work when even “common sense” would say there is no such thing.
We don’t SUGGEST anything. We’re ANALYSING the companies or opportunities from many different viewpoints (the readers’ viewpoints).
Try to deliver a solution to something in a market where people can be willing to pay for it, where people HAVE the money to pay and are INTERESTED in a solution?
The solution doesn’t have to be your own, e.g. you can deliver information found on the internet and reorganize it to something people can be willing to pay for. I’m not talking about COPYING here, you’ll need to add something of value to it yourself.
It’s difficult to give you any suggestions, because you’re looking for opportunities rather than for problems to solve within your own range of skills.
What agency would be the one to investigate EN, if it did come to that. The SEC? And if they did in fact shut it down, would there be a receivership, refunds and clawbacks as it is with Zeek?
EN has the fundamental problem of most MLMs… mixup between affiliate and consumer. So it would be FTC, or the state AG’s that start an investigation, if any.
But let me just say… it’s not illegal to tell people that your stuff is worth a lot more than it really is. It kinda depends on the viewpoint. It depends on if you told lies or misrepresented stuff of what it is.
I guess what I am saying is it’s okay to make up **** about the VALUE of what you offer, but not okay to lie about WHAT you offer. There’s a subtle difference, and the more veteran promoters know about it and can exploit it.
We’ve all seen the ads like “$200 value, included free if you order now!”
Nobody really believes that the stuff they include is really worth $200, right?
Same here. It’s NOT illegal to sell hosting for $25 when it’s worth zero elsewhere, when it’s clear what they offer is hosting and shopping cart (and whatever) for $25. It’s when they say $25 buys X and Y and Z, but you only get X and Z, then there’s fraud.
@K.C
How is a cash gifting scheme handled when it is shut down?
I’ll instead refer you to Rod Cook’s MLMWatchDog. He has a whole section on “Cash Gifting” schemes people mistake for MLMs.
http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/home_gifting_illegal_pyramid_schemes_scams.html
After reading the article it looks like a whole lot of people go to jail. Also, where would the “potential crook list (the one the FBI runs on the web)”. I have been trying to expose an mlm subcategory for months now.
Wow this must be a moron convention. Not even the author knows what the hell they’re talking about. The example that is given about David Wood saying that they only way to make money has nothing to do with cash gifting.
The Empower Network has multiple products a B rating with the better business bureau.
The only money that changes hands happens when someone purchases one of the products that Empower provides.
One guy in here says that it’s 19 dollars for the blogging system. That isn’t true. That is an affiliate fee. The blog is $25 a month and 70% of that is a commission.
Affiliates paying affiliates != the sale of a product. And BBB ratings have nothing to do with a business model, which is defines the nature of an opportunity.
That only happened after we raised the gifting issue (check the date of this article) and Empower Network called the lawyers in.
Ever since the gifting was busted the scheme has been in decline (because selling WordPress doesn’t make sense and the only people paying are recruited affiliates).
Nah you’re at the wrong place. Your people are the next door down.
Is EN still active?
David Sharpe left a long time ago. Tony Rush left in August 2014. John Lavenia left in August 2014, etc., etc.
And you’re the first one to make a comment about EN in a very long time.
Nope, you missed the party by more than two years. What rock did you crawl out from under to have missed all the fun?
Wood’s stirring what’s left of EN with promises of everyone paying $97 a month for WordPress plugins.
There’s a $17 or so gifting payment affiliates can make to “upgrade” in the meantime.
Basically you “sell” the Kalatu WordPress plugins to you downline, and they pay you $17.
Needless to say no retail customers are going to be paying $97 a month for WordPress plugins… but we might see a brief uptick in “rahrah” affiliate posts over the next few weeks till it flops like ENv2 did.
Ha! Looks like the tax dodger is afraid to lose his happy home in Costa Rica!