PIE 24/7 Review: Marketing tools & ambiguous comp plan
PIE, which stands for “Personal Independent Earnings”, launched in 2011 and refer to themselves as “The First Totally Complete Entrepreneurial Business Academy”.
Heading up PIE is founder David T. Rosen.
In a marketing video on the PIE website, Rosen explains;
Back in 1987 I discovered network marketing and when I first saw it, I thought “This is the answer”.
However, I quickly also discovered that it really wasn’t working. It didn’t work for everybody, and that was a problem.
So I decided to do something about it.
On his LinkedIn profile, Rosen (right) credits himself with having worked at “PIE Business” since 2002. The PIE 24/7 website domain however (“pie247.com”), was only registered in January 2011.
PIE in one form or another appears to have been around since 2002, with PIE 24/7 likely to be its latest incarnation.
I did try to track down what opportunities Rosen was involved in prior to launching PIE, but didn’t find anything concrete.
One last thing I’ll flag is that while Rosen lists his own location on LinkedIn as Ontario in Canada, there is no corporate address provided on the PIE 24/7 website.
The PIE 24/7 website domain registration is private, again failing to provide this important contact information.
Why PIE 24/7 do not disclose where they are operating out of is not clear.
Read on for a full review of the PIE 24/7 MLM business opportunity.
The PIE 24/7 Product Line
PIE 24/7 market a range of internet marketing tools, which they sell in two membership bundles:
- Retail – $20 a month and
- Entrepreneur – $25 a month
Bundled with both membership plans is access to:
- PIE-branded website builder
- 168 Day Challenge – appears to be some sort of business orientated personal development course
- lead capture pages
- an email marketing suite
- an advertising rotator
- text optimizer – “helps you to ensure your text is focused on your customers”
- “free apps” – freely available third-party applications
- a domain registration service
Available only to Entrepreneur membership holders is access to:
- a messaging service
- “marketing tools”
- live and recorded mentoring sessions and
- guest speakers
The PIE 24/7 Compensation Plan
The PIE 24/7 compensation plan pays affiliates retail commissions, residuals through a matrix and potentially a share in 15% of company-wide sales volume.
PIE 24/7 Affiliate Ranks
There are eight affiliate ranks within the PIE 24/7 compensation plan.
Along with their respective qualification criteria, they are as follows:
- Deputy PIEoner – ign up as a PIE 24/7 affiliate (no MLM commissions)
- PIEoner – generate at least 25 PV
- Team PIEoner – recruit at least one affiliate who qualifies at the PIEoner rank
- Regional PIEoner – recruit at least two affiliates who qualifies at the PIEoner rank
- Global PIEoner – recruit at least three affiliates who qualifies at the PIEoner rank
- Jewel PIEoner – recruit at least one affiliate who qualify at and maintains the Global PIEoner rank
- Master PIEoner – recruit at least two affiliates who qualify at and maintain the Global PIEoner rank
- Crown PIEoner – maintain Master PIEoner rank and recruit at least one new PIEoner ranked affiliate every 28 days
The insertion of the acronym “PIE” into the ranks would appear to be an attempt to play on the word “pioneer”.
I’ve copied the names of the ranks verbatim, which I’m guessing means someone at PIE 24/7 forgot pioneer has two instances of the letter “e”.
Note that “PV” above stands for “Personal Volume”. This is sales volume accumulated by retail membership sales.
Retail Commissions
Retail commissions are paid out on the sale of PIE 24/7 retail memberships ($20 a month).
The sale of a retail membership generates 20 PV, from which a 25% commission is paid out ($5). This is a monthly ongoing commission, paid out for the life of the retail membership.
Note that all new PIE 24/7 affiliates forfeit the first 45 PV they generate via retail sales.
This in effect sees them pass up two retail sales commissions and 5 PV from their third, to the affiliate who recruited them.
PIEoner and higher ranked affiliates also receive a 25% commission on the first 20 PV affiliates they personally recruited generate ($5).
Matrix Commissions
Residual commissions in PIE 24/7 are paid out using a 3×10 matrix.
A 3×10 matrix places an affiliate at the top of the matrix, with three positions directly under them (level 1):
These three positions in turn branch out into another three positions each, making up level 2 of the matrix. Each level 2 positions again branches out into another three positions each, making up level 3 of the matrix.
This branching out continues for a total of ten levels, with commissions paid on the sales volume of affiliates in filled matrix positions.
Positions in the matrix are filled via the recruitment of affiliates, with each filled position in the matrix representing a recruited affiliate.
Affiliates can be recruited directly or indirectly via the recruiting efforts of an affiliate’s upline and and downline.
How much of a commission is paid out per filled position (based on that affiliate’s sales volume), depends on what level of the matrix that position is on:
- level 1 – 15%
- level 2 – 2.5%
- level 3 – 5%
- levels 4 and 5 – 2.5%
- level 6 – 5%
- levels 7 to 9 – 2.5%
- level 10 – 6%
Note that a PIE 24/7 affiliate’s rank also limits the amount of matrix levels they can earn from as follows:
- Deputy PIEoner – no matrix commissions
- PIEoner – 2 levels
- Team PIEoner – 3 levels
- Regional PIEoner – 5 levels
- Global PIEoner – 6 levels
- Jewel PIEoner – 7 levels
- Master and Crown PIEoners – all 10 matrix levels
Master Earnings Bonus
The Master Earnings Bonus is a bonus pool made up of 15% of the company-wide sales volume in PIE 24/7.
Master and Crown PIEoner affiliates can qualify for an equal share of the pool by recruiting a new PIEoner ranked affiliate.
This qualification must be maintained every 28 days, with the 28 day timer counting down from the day the last PIEoner affiliate was recruited.
If no new PIOner affiliates are recruited within the 28 day qualification period, the affiliate no longer qualifies for a share in the Master Earnings Bonus pool until they once again meet the qualification requirement.
Joining PIE 24/7
Affiliate membership with PIE 24/7 is $25 a month.
There is also a non-MLM affiliate membership option for $10 a month (only paid on personal sales, no MLM commissions).
Conclusion
The big question of legitimacy with PIE 24/7 is answered with whether or not an affiliate’s own $25 a month fee generates PV in the compensation plan.
Unfortunately I couldn’t find a definitive answer to this.
The PIE 24/7 compensation plan re-enforces that no commissions are paid on the recruitment of affiliate, but doesn’t explicitly mention whether or not an affiliate’s own $25 a month “product purchase” generated sales volume.
I’m not sure whether this is deliberate or simply an oversight by the company.
If an affiliate’s own $25 a month fee doesn’t generate sales volume, that’s great as it means PIE 24/7 affiliates are only paid on retail sales.
The benefit of building a large affiliate downline is that you then get a cut of their retail sales, which is what the core of any MLM opportunity should be about.
If an affiliate’s $25 a month fee does generate PV though, then we have a problem as effectively the fee becomes a monthly autoship – and this brings with it the possibility of getting paid on chain recruitment.
I have a sneaking suspicion the latter scenario might be at play here, given the affiliate recruitment rank qualifiers and that this is how PIE 24/7 recommend affiliate’s build their business:
Primary Steps To Maximize Your Earnings…
1. Register and become an Active IBO – You become an Active IBO by registering as an IBO and having at least 20 PSV.
2. Personally register and help 3 or more become Active IBO’s.
This is the first step in becoming a qualified Active IBO and if you are a product user makes your subscription free.
3. Help 3 or more of your personal Active IBO’s also register 3 or more Active IBO’s – Completing the step qualifies you to receive maximum earnings and can really accelerate your income.
Thas sounds an awful lot like the blueprint of an autoship chain recruitment opportunity, but note in step 1 PIE 24/7 don’t clarify how an affiliate should generate 20 PV (PSV).
This might be pseudo-compliance in that they don’t mention an affiliate’s own payment of $25 a month qualifies them, but that this is how the vast majority of affiliates are qualifying.
Or it could simply be that affiliates have to make actual retail sales to generate this volume. Although if that’s the case then I’m not entirely sure why PIE 24/7 don’t just say that.
On the retail viability front, I had a look at the website building demo PIE 24/7 showcase on their website and sure enough – it was WordPress:
They’re demoing a multi-user WordPress install with some sort of theme plugin. The main point though is that WordPress is free.
The theme(s) PIE 24/7 use might be custom, but the blogging platform itself is free and made by a third-party.
This leads me to believe the rest of PIE 24/7’s offerings are also third-party in nature.
This in itself isn’t a problem, but reduces PIE 24/7’s offering to reselling third-party services – which in some cases are free to begin with.
Is this worth paying $20 a month for on a retail level?
I’d advise any prospective PIE 24/7 affiliates to check with their potential uplines how many retail customers they have. That should give you an idea of the retail viability of PIE 24/7’s marketing tools bundle.
Also enquire as to whether or not an affiliate’s own $25 a month fee generates PV, and while you’re at it ask where PIE 24/7 is actually operated out of.
Why a company this old fails to provide absolute basic information about itself and its comp plan escapes me. It definitely can (and should) be improved on.
this is just another PIE in the Sky, ponzi/pyramid scheme with sham ‘training and internet tools’ products.
we need more originality from ponzi planners, have they no Sense of Fun??? must they punish us with the same repetitive ‘ponzi offerings’ ???
ouch. crass and misspelled. ouch.
its all good at PIE 24/7.
It will become clear shortly. Please be patient.
What exactly will become clear?
This business has been around for years… why the need to “be patient”?
Good things take a while
the Feds are moving in soon? awesome.
It’s ready now, check it out.
stop being so bloody secretive, CHECK WHAT OUT ???
do you mean the PIE website? has it been changed or something?
this is what i found on pie247.com :
Step 1 Become a PIE 24/7 PIEoneer
Step 2 Personally invite 3 who become PIEoneers
Step 3 Have your 3 PIEoneers do the same
is this ^^^ what you made us wait for, patiently? is this ^^^ the good things that took a while?
speak freely mark ! do not be secretive mark !
It just took forever to complete. The owner is a bit of a perfectionist, when it comes to it and has done his very best to make it last for a very long time.
Where should I start…
PIEoneers earn only from PSV (Personal Sales Volume) and not from the business (recruitment).
Reseller: No commissions paid for recruitment, great way for someone to make 25% on each sale residual and have the option to upgrade to the Matrix Plans at their wish.
One sale ($50 Plan) and the business is free)
Business Plan: $25 ($15 go to product and $10 go towards the business)
Entrepreneur Plan: $50 ($40 are PSV and $10 go to the business).
Important to note, PIEoneer’s only earn on Personal Sales Volume.
PIE Webs is not WordPress, the reason for the word press link, is due to the company site. It is built with wordpress components and lots “from scratch coding”.
I would like to show everything that is out there right now, just don’t know if I am allowed to post links to show it on here.
I do know everything about it, so please ask me anything.
I do truly believe deeply in it and in the vision of PIE 24/7. The reason why it toke so long, is because the owner wanted to do it right and for everyone to succeed (sounds cheezy, I know, but true).
There is not another company which can provide a equal opportunity for everyone (ask me for details, everything I say I can prove immediately.
There is even a exact replica setup of the system with free to use products before anyone risks anything. This way there is no risk for anyone to experience it.
This is definitely not a fly by night operation. Looking forward to the response here and would love to shed as much light on it as possible. There is nothing to hide (which is really uncommon for a MLM).
the youtube channel PIE 24/7 and PIE Global have longer product videos (what they are and how they benefit everyone who runs any type of business) and more tutorials viewable.
These are just first versions, one of the PIEoneers did them.
Reason why PIE 24/7 exists is due to the fact that previous and present MLM do not allow everyone a equal opportunity to make money.
Due to the fact that machines and technology will keep taking our jobs, we all need to become Entrepreneurs again, aka. Creators of ourselves (and being able to truly take care of ourselves in our current economics.
The 85% company payout back to the field ensures that PIEoneers indeed have a new modern career in front of them. Only 15% go towards the company to sustain itself and pay for staff, offices around the world.
In PIE 24/7 it does not matter if you start today or in 10 years, the only difference is the earning you could have already earned. The reason why PIE 24/7 made is so doable for everyone to receive maximum company payout, is so everyone, everywhere has a chance to succeed, not only the master marketers and people who can stand in front of a crowd of people, etc.
That all being said, please check it out yourself and especially the products, as they are very cool and fun to use. There is a lot of heart, soul and thought in the creation of PIE.
Are you still using a matrix-based comp plan? In that I sign up, but a matrix position and then recruit fee-paying affiliates who are put in my matrix – generating me a monthly commission every month they pay their affiliate fee?
I identified this as a major point in the review:
You wrote:
Which doesn’t sound promising.
There is no cost to register and ALL commissions are generated from Sales Volume not from recruitment.
There are 4 ways to join…
1. Free you get great products for free, see how your team can build and an opportunity to make money – it is an exact replica of PIE 24/7 but free(if any of the people you invited for free register before you, you will get a one time 25% commission and that person will fall in your uplinks matrix.
HOWEVER, should you decide to join as an IBO you will get the 25% commissions on all renewals AND when qualified received PIE Bonuses from those members even though they are not part of your direct team!)
2. Become an IBO $10 ( non-commissionable and is used for research and development and the hosting of all your sites and services) and gives you the right to resell our products and earn a 25% commission (when you have sales volume of $15 or more you become an Active IBO and get a position in the matrix)
3. Become a Business IBO ($10 non-commissionable and you have sales volume of $15 – the $15 is commissionable) you can earn 25% on personal sales, you get a position in the matrix and can earn matrix commissions (a total of 45% paid through 10 levels).
4. Become an Entrepreneur IBO ($10 non-commissionable and you have sales volume of $40 – the $40 is commissionable) you can earn 25% on personal sales, you get a position in the matrix, can earn matrix commissions (a total of 45% paid through 10 levels) and when qualified earn PIE Bonuses, which are 15% of the total sales volume (They are calculated based on the number of personal enrollees, how well your personal enrollees are building and the overall size of your team – NOTE: If 2 IBO’s do the exact same thing both will earn the exact same amount of money)
All 3 ways to earn are unlimited including Matrix Commissions, each matrix position can have an unlimited amount of sales volume. For example; if an IBO makes 9 product sales of $40 to non IBO’s, matrix earnings would be calculated on $360 and paid all the way upline.
In my personal opinion and from what I have learned so far, The PIE Wealth system is the fairest and most lucrative system available today.Please do let me know where I can go more into detail.
If affiliates are the only ones buying, then that’s defacto recruitment commissions.
Separating your product/service from the affiliate membership is pseudo-compliance if there’s no retail sales being generated.
From your description of the four way to join, sounds like there’s still no retail customers – every option is attached to the income opportunity.
In MLM, this is a major red flag.
The reselling you mentioned sounds external, akin to purchasing product from an MLM company as an affiliate and then selling it outside of the comp plan.
Correct, there is no cost to join and all sales are generated from product sales.
Sorry if I wasnt’t clear, but we have 8 times more product users then IBO’s at this point, and our users LOVE our products/services.
Our products are designed to help all businesses both make and save money, be it a lemonade stand or IBM.
Our users love the convenience of having all their tools in one place, the fact that they are all interconnected and because of the tremendous value they especially love the savings they receive.
You could have a sales rep walk up and down any street to businesses and make sales all day long, without ever mentioning MLM. Our line is that great!
And ALL of those sales, even though they are sold to a non IBO purchaser, generate the SAME commissions for the seller and upline – another first, of many, in the industry and exclusive to PIE.
And i forgot to mention – there is one more purchase option on the registration page – Products Only for $40, and as you can see there is no “RETAIL” markup, our products are the same price for everyone, both IBO’s and users.
Anybody can go the site and purchase just products or any level of business participation – it is their choice. Great questions. Thank you.
Well those are pretty solid numbers. If that keeps up then more power to you.
Thank you.
Yeah the fact that they are just using a wordpress site with possibly a custom plugin is pretty much the reason I want nothing to do with this.
I use wordpress, so why would I spend another 50$ a month? This makes no sense. Typical ponzi…..
Hi Alvin, the Product PIE Webs is not a WordPress at all (more details in comment #8).
I agree with you, if it was based on wordpress, it would be aweful to charge anything for it, as its free.
Ask someone you know to give you free access to check it out. I think you might like it a lot.
PIE webs is only one of many products which PIE 24/7 has in store 🙂
So how is the Pie doing? Considering joining but am worried about the payment processor in Barbados and the way you get paid is payza.
It hasn’t exactly been very active …
The good thing is that they seem to have been speeding up a little in 2015.
Mark can probably answer your questions about “payment processor Barbados” and “Payza”.
Personally I don’t like “You are the Brand / Millionaire Mindset” ideas. They shouldn’t be duplicated with many poor copies, i.e. the fact that they focus on that idea isn’t a very good sign. Then they will compete in the same market as everyone else, in the wannabe market.
One of the reasons for WHY i don’t like them is because I have seen them being duplicated in reality. That’s not a very impressive sight.
A look at pie247.com:
There’s hundreds or thousands of websites focusing on exactly the same ideas, trying to promote something. They’re not very successful, but a few originals may have made it work.
What’s wrong with that idea is that it sounds “hollow” and “worn out”, like something from a marketing book written by one of the “gurus” in the late 90’ies.
It doesn’t sound like an original idea, like something people can be interested in (other than as some type of habit, “the good old Millionaire Mindset idea”).
TEST
* “People buy IDEAS”. That’s correct enough.
* “They buy the ideas they already have, and truly love to believe in”. Partly true, but the idea fails here.
People need something new, some “stimuli”. The idea of “Millionaire Mindset” will eventually be worn out, and it will become difficult to sell. The other ideas had the same problem.
– – – – end test – – – –
Most of the ideas here seem to be rather old. They circulated around in the 1920’ies and ’30ies, in the 1970’ies, ’80ies and ’90ies, and in the early 2000s. But then they had more substance.
“Old ideas + lack of substance” isn’t very attractive.
Here’s something for Oz and others …
… in that order. If you don’t have time for the second part (provide relevant information), focus strongly on the first part. 🙂
Products:
The products themselves seemed to be “fair enough” — “something people can be interested in”.
I would most likely have tried to balance the material better = less mindset and more factual information about the products. The other method is to be more specific about mindset (keep the focus, but add more substance to that part).
Some search results:
Millionaire Mindset 3.84 million hits
You are the brand 678 million (poor search method)
Lifestyle of your dreams 379 million (poor search method)
There’s millions of websites out there talking about Millionaire Mindset, branding yourself as an expert, lifestyle of your dreams, etc., etc.
Most of those websites belong to people trying to brand themselves as “experts in their chosen fields”, copying what they can find from other “experts” of similar types — i.e. there’s a lot of junk out there / very little of interest.
A SUMMARY FOR POSTS 19, 20, 21.
I believe someone has picked up the wrong types of ideas from one or more “marketing guru” here, or rather from “selfdev gurus”.
It isn’t about that all ideas are bad, but some parts are. One example is the idea “promote yourself as an expert in your chosen field”. People don’t fool anyone other than themselves with ideas like that.
Some parts seem to have been picked up from books, but not interpreted correctly either by the author or the reader — e.g. picked up from books, but not tested in reality.
Replicated blog sites aren’t going to get you any exposure. Think Empower Network and their silly SEO claims from 2-3 years ago.
I was a member of PIE for 14 months. I was paid for 7 months then not paid for 7 months.
David T. Rosen is the Wizard of Oz. Avoid or be scammed.
He lives in Toronto & has left a trail of people in his wake.
He takes advantage of people with mental issues, I have been part of pie off and on.
The highest amount of paying members it ever had was 120. The original idea was good with the products however no one can use them without a great investment in time and technical know how.
I ended up losing everything and getting into debt. There was an office but it was never used, the rent was not paid and one guy even worked with him till he ended up becoming homeless and is now on disability damaged to the core, he used to be in charge of a lot of things and did all in high hopes and trust into David for two years.
apparently 6 million went into pie, and I never even had one payout from it throughout all the time.
Sadly from what I heard no one can work long with this guy as its always about him. He needs to have the idea coming from him. The smallest things even.
Always looking for people to blame when things go wrong instead of showing some humanity.
Anyways, I liked the idea with usable products and better ones, however not with such a admin. It never started and never ended.
I am in co-op 50-50 and it only works if everyone does their part in a 2 x 2 matrix…
if you donate and do not get 2 and teach to get 2 you just donated to their cause… which is no different than gofundme,
everyone has to donate… it is a gift share and receives program in which case it is a Mobius loop where everyone gets paid.
when they do not get their two you have to look for drivers that will… otherwise the loop stops…
the only way to remedy this is to find drivers for the 2×2 then it stays in the family you help to create… gift, share, and receive…
^^ So close to self-awareness. Almost there.
Stupid Chinglish robot go BRRRRR derp
INFINITE MONEYYYYYY