Leaf International Review: Advertising ROIs
There is no information on the Leaf International website indicating who owns or runs the business.
The company’s (prelaunch?) domain (“preleaf.com”) was registered on the 7th September 2012 and names a “Magnar Kongestol” with an address provided in Norway.
On Leaf International’s “Get Satisfaction” support page, Kongestol is listed as an employee of the company,
however his exact position within Leaf International is not provided.
MLM history wise, the only information I was able to find on Kongestol was that he was “Chairman of the Board” for the company “Goodle Adz”:
Goodle Adz launched in mid 2010 and under the guise of affiliate’s purchasing advertising, paid out ROIs from the money invested by other affiliates. The company also paid recruitment commissions upon the acquisition of new affiliates who invested.
When they launched in 2010, Goodle Adz claimed to be
only one concept, (although being the core one) in a big puzzle counting a total of approx 10 media and advertising concepts, which in the next 12 – 18 months will form a complete picture, unlike anything else you have seen online or offline!
Once the new investments dried up a few months after launch however, Goodle Adz collapsed.
Read on for a full review of the Leaf International MLM business opportunity.
The Leaf International Product Line
Leaf International claim to have two primary products, advertising and a “website builder”.
Leaf International’s advertising is sold through the “Leaf Advertising Network” and consists of text and banner ads and featuring a website in their “Website Optimizer” and “Leaf Search”.
The Website Optimizer ‘rotates the websites from Associates, Affiliates and Customers through a viewing platform called a website Rotator‘, with Leaf International associates being ‘required to view 20 sites a day in this system in order to qualify for the Daily Rebate payout‘.
Leaf Search is
an internal search engine that offers an additional traffic source for websites in Leaf.
No further information was provided on Leaf’s “website builder” but going by the name it appears to be some sort of website design tool.
The Leaf International compensation plan prices the website builder at between $68 (premium) to $138 (e-commerce) a month. Advertising is charged at a minimum of $50, capped at $10,000 a day.
The Leaf International Compensation Plan
The Leaf International compensation plan revolves around the sale of advertising and a website builder, along with monthly fees to participate in an affiliate funded matrix commission pool.
Leaf International Membership Ranks
There are four membership ranks within the Leaf International compensation plan and, along with their qualification requirements, they are as follows:
- Starter – pay Leaf International $48
- Manager – a minimum of five personally recruited affiliates whom each have recruited 2 new affiliates themselves, a total of at least 15 affiliates in your downline, $20,000 sales volume from each recruitment leg and a total $100,000 in sales generated by your downline
- Executive – a minimum of ten personally recruited affiliates whom each have recruited 2 new affiliates themselves, a total of at least 30 affiliates in your downline, $50,000 sales volume from each recruitment leg and a total $500,000 in sales generated by your downline
- Senior Executive – a minimum of fifteen personally recruited affiliates whom each have recruited 2 new affiliates themselves, a total of at least 45 affiliates in your downline, $100,000 sales volume from each recruitment leg and a total $1,500,000 in sales generated by your downline
Note that for each new affiliate recruited, a “recruitment leg” is created under the recruiting affiliate. Also note that Leaf International do not specify whether or not the sales volume qualifications are monthly or annual requirements.
Retail commissions in Leaf International involve the selling of either the website builder or advertising to retail customers.
Commissions are paid out at a rate of 25% for sales of the website builder and 10% on advertising.
Referral commissions are also offered on retail sales made by an affiliate’s downline, paid out on two levels of recruitment (affiliates you recruit (level 2) and those they recruit (level 3)).
Referral retail commissions are paid out as follows:
- Level 2 – website builder sales 10%, advertising 5%
- Level 3 – website builder sales 5%, advertising commissions paid out as follows (Starter – no commission, Manager – 2%, Executive – 3.5%, Senior Executive – 5%)
A commission incentive is offered to affiliates who make an effort to sell the website builder to retail customers, raising the base commission offered to up to 150%:
- if 5% of an affiliate’s total generated website builder sales are to retail customers, the commission payout is increased to 17% on level 1, 7% on level 2 and 3% on level 3
- if 10% of an affiliate’s total generated website builder sales are to retail customers, the commission payout is increased to 25% on level 1, 10% on level 2 and 5% on level 3
Daily Rebate Commissions
As per the Leaf International compensation plan,
For each dollar of Advertising purchased an Associate is rewarded one Ad Credit. Associates are paid daily based on their total amount of Active Ad Credits.
The Daily Rebate percentage is calculated from the total amount of Advertising sales by Leaf for each particular day. The Rebate can be anywhere from 0% to 4%.
Aside from having advertising credits, affiliate’s must qualify to earn via the Daily Rebate by
- surfing at least 20 sites a day through the “website optimizer”
- rating all sites visited (at least three must be given “advanced feedback”)
- spamming the internet with at least one recruitment ad a day, placed ‘via an approved Leaf source‘
If the above conditions are met, Leaf International affiliates earn a daily percentage of the Daily Rebate, subject to the amount of advertising credits they have (one advertising credit = $1) and their membership rank:
- Starter – 1.5%
- Manager – 2.2%
- Executive – 3%
- Senior Executive – 4%
Advertising credits pay out a daily ROI for 90 days, with Leaf International recommending to its affiliates
that at least 20% of commissions be used to repurchase more Advertising in order to most effectively maximize the Daily Rebate payment and continue to grow the total Active Ad Credit volume.
Note that the Daily Rebate is paid out virtually. If affiliates wish to actually cash out their earnings they must make a request to do so, and are only able to qualify if they have personally recruited at least one affiliate.
For each affiliate recruited into Leaf International, they are placed in the recruiting affiliate’s 3×9 matrix.
A 3×9 matrix places an affiliate at the top of the matrix with three legs directly under them (level 1). In turn, these three legs branch out into another three legs and so on and so forth down 9 levels:
Each of these legs is a recruited affiliate position (total positions = 29,526) with positions able to be filled either via direct recruitment, or the recruiting efforts of an affiliate’s up and downlines.
In order to qualify for matrix commissions, a Leaf International affiliate must ‘have three associates of any level directly recruited by them‘ (recruit 3 new members) and pay a monthly fee between $38 to $148
There are four price points between this range, each offering an increase in paid traffic, the amount of websites able to be placed into the “website optimizer” and provided capture pages.
Commissions are paid out as a percentage of each affiliate’s monthly fee, with how much of a percentage of the fees paid dependant on what level an affiliate is placed in the matrix:
- Levels 1 and 2 – 4%
- Level 3 – 5%
- Levels 4 and 5 – 6%
- Level 6 – 4%
- Levels 7 and 8 – 5%
- Level 9 – 6%
Joining Leaf International
Membership to Leaf International is $48 annually.
If an affiliate wishes to earn matrix commissions, they must pay an additional $38 – $148 a month.
Building on the traditional Ponzi scheme “buy advertising and earn a ROI” model, Leaf International introduces a retail offering to the recipe, throws in some online marketing tools and pairs it with a 3×9 pyramid scheme.
First we’ll take a look at the advertising. Displayed on the Leaf Advertising Network, which appears to be superimposed on top of their rotator, the “website optimizer”.
As far as advertising revenue goes, nobody is viewing these ads other than Leaf International members, who in turn are only doing so to qualify for their Daily Rebate. With little organic or targeted exposure, the notion of attracting retail advertisers seems slim to none.
Leaf claims to offer advertising positions on its “Leaf Search” search engine, but who is going to be using that given it only indexes sites uploaded into their rotator?
Retail Product sales (the website builder) also appear to be nothing more than a token offering, with the company rewarding affiliates who achieve just 5 or 10% retail sales (meaning a whopping 90-95% of their business comes from Leaf International affiliates). This is a good an indication as any as to the level of retail activity Leaf International are expecting.
Despite this however, the company still attempts to place an emphasis on retail sales:
The importance of retail sales cannot be overstated. The focus of Leaf is not just a work from home opportunity, but to provide powerful tools that can help any business improve their marketing and sales.
In order to maintain proper growth for the company it is very important to market Leaf products directly to customers and not just to those looking to start a work from home business.”
Paying homage to the “wink wink, nudge nudge” compliance that has plagued the MLM industry these last few years in particular, I fail to see how an expected 5 to 10% retail sales within a business could be construed as “important”.
With the advertising side of Leaf International offering less value than the website builder (which itself is a stretch priced at $68-$138 a month (who exactly is this “product” targeting?), I’d say the 90-95% affiliate money figures will be even less in the advertising side of things.
With each dollar spent on Leaf International advertising equating to an advertising credit, members are paid a virtual money ROI based on the total amount of advertising sales generated that day.
Considering the complete lack of value offered to retail advertisers, this ROI is obviously going to be largely paid out of affiliate money.
In offering a daily payout as such, the Daily Rebate can be boiled down to affiliates earning a daily ROI, based on how much they themselves have invested in advertising credits and convinced others to invest.
The true value and incentive for affiliates to purchase advertising lies with the 90 day ROI paid out (with the expectation it will pay out more money than they’ve themselves invested), not the advertising itself. This value and incentive of course doesn’t exist for retail customers, thus we’re looking at an affiliate-funded Ponzi scheme.
Note that this perfectly explains the $10,000 daily investment cap in advertising, which makes no sense otherwise (as a retail revenue source, why would you limit advertising purchases at all?).
In an attempt to balance their Ponzi scheme payouts, Leaf International cap their affiliates from investing (and re-investing $10,000 daily). They also restrict affiliate’s cashouts by restricting them from withdrawing ‘more money than the revenue they have created‘.
Leaf International define “revenue” as
purchases made by their customers, Affiliates or Associates they have directly sold to, but does not include an Associates own purchases.
So whilst affiliates are given advertising credits for their own investments, ultimately they are restricted from actually cashing out beyond the investment money they have brough into the business, via recruitment (as per the complete lack of advertising value, let’s not pretend there’s going to be a retail side to this).
This recruitment of investors is only further emphasised by the daily spam requirement affiliates must adhere to if they wish to earn their daily virtual ROI. This requirement exists solely to attract new investors into the scheme.
Such balances might balance the withdrawals out (offering virtual ROIs to everyone except those who succeed in encouraging others to invest), but effectively it’s still a Ponzi scheme and suffers from the fundamental problem that unless new investments are coming in, there’s nothing to pay out.
The matrix commissions only add to the red flags, with the entire commissions structure being a “pay to play” pyramid scheme. Paying out 100% affiliate money, affiliates pay a monthly fee and in turn earn a percentage of their downline’s paid monthly fees.
Whatever is attached to the fees is of course irrelevant, because it is only the paying of the fees that generates commission revenue. No recruited affiliates paying fees = no monthly matrix commissions.
Looking at “Goodle Adz”, it’s clear to see where the inspiration for Leaf International comes from and despite attempting to present a more legitimate offer this time around, Kongestol still ultimately winds up offering a business that primarily pays out a daily ROI from newly invested affiliate money.
Whack on a pyramid scheme to boot in the form of a monthly fee-based matrix, some mumbo-jumbo about charities, and that’s pretty much all there is to the Leaf International business opportunity.
Founder: Helge Normann
Co-founders: Some religious movement in the U.S.
Co-founders: People from a religious environment in Norway
Failed Norwegian Ponzi scheme with international connections, but with few international members. Launched in July 2010, after 5 months prelaunch. Can have had up to 4,300 members total, but the real number is probably 2,000 to 2,500 members – 90% from Norway.
Members were mostly recruited from a religious environment, but I wasn’t able to identify it 100%.
It hasn’t exactly “collapsed”, but it isn’t very active either. Last news posted on GOODLENEWZ.com is from June 2012.
The last time I heard about them was approx. 1 year ago, when they had a leadership meeting in Norway – selling franchises to wannabe leaders.
Related business names:
Freedom Globe Media
d/b/a Doing Business As names:
GoodleToolz (video e-mails, some other stuff)
GoodleCity, advertising portal (franchise)
unknown penny auction
any other Goodle…z names you can find 🙂
Leaf International may simply be a GoodleAdz restart or a franchise.
GoodleAds original incarnation burned out a few months after launch. I think anything they’ve done since then was shortlived.
I think this might be it. It’s too rooted in what they’ve previously been doing… or trying to do.
“Burned out” is the correct description. “Trying to do” is also correct.
One of Helge Normann’s previous projects was Green Planet, a pyramid scheme collapsed in 2006, restarted as Better Globe (with Rino Solberg as new CEO). Normann has been involved in or organized different schemes since the 1980-ies.
“Religious movement” was about the Pentecostal movement, where the organizers and founding members all were connected to that movement in some way, both in the U.S., in the UK and in Norway.
Recruiting people in the prelaunch period February to July 2010 was mostly done through the PeopleString network.
Business relations (from memory):
* A business man in Australia has partly been involved in organizing GoodleAdz, e.g. by providing some of “tools”.
* A business man in the U.S. had a similar role.
Friends in business (from memory):
* “Your Freedom in His Kingdom” (YFIHK), a network selling gold medallions with religious motives.
“From memory” means SOME connections popped up when I searched the internet in 2010, but I was only trying to get an overview over the situation and didn’t focus on details.
Some additional d/b/a names:
And then we’re back to “burned out” and “trying to do”. The network seems to be “burned out” most of the time, waking up for short periods of time in February, June and October each year, “trying to do something” rather than just doing it, before returning to its normal state of inactivity in the following months.
The “unknown” penny auction is of course GoodleBidz.com, currently not active. It hasn’t been active, either.
Updates on norway.goodlenewz.com shows some random activity in 2012, e.g. trying to introduce GoodleAdz in Africa in May 2012, and several meetings in the U.S. in June 2012. The information found there is mostly in Norwegian, but posts from 2010 were mostly in English.
The main company names behind GoodleAdz are “Freedom Globe xxx”, e.g. “Freedom Globe Media & Advertising”, “Freedom Globe Enterprises”, “Freedom Globe International”.
It won’t exactly be a surprise if Leaf International Inc is owned by a “Freedom Globe xxx” company.
I managed to get in contact with Magnar Kongestøl regarding an article in my Norwegian blog:
Use Google Translate if you can’t understand Norwegian.
He was really mad and promised to take juridical steps if I published anything that was linking him or Leaf International to pyramid schemes or other illegal activity.
We need an update. This is paying up to 4% a day. Will not last.
I have been poking and probing around.nobody seems to know where this (company)is located..??
I have heard Panama but the address i has told..takes me to a law firm in Panama that sell’s offshore license’s for as little as $900.. then i heard the were moving to the state’s (Idaho) I doubt it..
Another reason to stay away!
For fun & giggles..here is the address i was given for the company of leaf.. Google it if you want ? Ipasa Building 3’rd floor, 41st street balboa district, Panama City, Republic of Panama
I found mostly typical frauds, plus an Offshore Legal Services company.
Panama Offshore Legal Services
IPASA Building, 3rd Floor, 41st Street off Balboa Avenue, Panama City, Republic of Panama
Honest Questions: If small businesses pay for advertising through Leaf, are they not getting real people (customers) scanning their websites (daily requirement by associates)?
Who’s to say an associate isn’t a potential customer? Therefore, isn’t this a true product they are purchasing, i.e., the traffic?
Small business aren’t interested in advertising to people who are only viewing their ads to qualify for a Ponzi scheme ROI. The only things that get advertised on these kinds of sites are opportunities affiliates are in.
Customer maybe, but they’re not a retail customer.
Affiliate money being used to pay ROI = Ponzi scheme, regardless of what products or services are attached.
So associates cannot be real customers? They have a good income, are looking at these sites, can like, share and comment and buy these services or products.
Associates are people who need services and products just like anyone else. So, in fact, they are potential customers. These businesses will get more views than if they were searched through Google because they don’t rank in Google.
If you don’t know about something, you shouldn’t act like an authority on it. Have you looked in the SWO? There are indeed many more sites than affiliate opportunities, 10,000 plus and growing.
I said they cannot be retail customers.
Noboody outside of the income opportunity is interested in advertising to Ponzi scheme participants. Thus all your left with is new affiliate money being used to pay existing affiliates a daily ROI.
Whatever is there is only there because an affiliate participating in the Ponzi opportunity put it there. Zero retail.
There’s a legal difference between participants and customers, and people are either one of them but not both.
* “Participants” = people who have the right to participate in the business activity. Recruiting people and earning commission is typically about participation. It’s also about the RIGHT to participate, not about whether or not they actually have recruited anyone.
* “Customers” = people who don’t have the right to participate in the business activity. Buying products or services is not a type of participation.
Participants can have self consumption of goods or services. There’s nothing wrong in that, but it doesn’t make them become customers.
The advertisement business here isn’t a real business, it’s more similar to a Ponzi / pyramid hybrid of some type. The primary function isn’t to watch ads, but to recruit other advertisers and earn commissions from their investments.
Watching the ads has one primary function, and that is to generate daily activity and keep people occupied, make the investment opportunity FEEL like some type of “work”.
It may have SOME value for the advertisers, but I don’t believe it’s one of the main motives for joining. If it is one of the main motives, it will be reflected in hundreds of external advertisers buying ads for short periods of time.
We’re not. We’re analysing business models rather than laws, and people can normally add opposing opinions if they want to, as long as they keep it on topic and factual.
If you feel the business idea has high value for you as an advertiser I will clearly respect that viewpoint, but then you should also be prepared to answer some follow up questions about it, e.g. about conversion ratio and the type of business.
After numerous day’s and getting deleted on LEAF’s facebook page.. someone finally sent me what they call the new address of Leaf..after googleing it.. not to impressed.. was told this would be their new corporate office.. but, leaning on the side that a couple leader’s have leased this for ???
from source on facebook..then it was deleted..
That address belongs to Dennis Richardson Law Firm / Representative Dennis Richardson.
It also has a Real estate brokers and agents listed there.
Former tenants, type of business:
* Voice telephone communications
* Telephone communication, except radio
* Drug clinic, outpatient
Goodness fishbay, give it a break! Are you trying to find out a truth for re-assurance or too bored in your life that you must slander and defame others?
If you are able to find anything at all about this Leaf company, sounds like they are at least progressing towards fruition.
I have no interest, personally or financially, in this company. I found it more interesting your need to wander in a temper tantrum of an unknown company instead of constructively seeking answers.
Move on fishbay, you wouldn’t find answers with those eyes closed.
We sell online advertising through a sustainable business. Through Leaf, I am making a rebate on my advertising, promoting my websites and getting customers. I am seeing comments on my websites. I can see when somebody shares and likes my websites, and I can see when my views are finished (like any other ad runs its course.)
I have also found many websites doing my daily SWO’ing, if you will, that I would have never found googling because they don’t rank, so they are getting real traffic, and I’ve even purchased through a website.
I have nobody in my downline.
Why should Google, Yahoo, et cetera make all the money? Just because they always have? The brick and mortar, mom and pops, little guys can get REAL advertising with REAL people and make an advertising rebate off of their paid advertising.
Just wanted to share the proof so that you know Leaf is not a ponzi and will be around for a long time.
(Ozedit: recruitment spam removed)
@Julie – you know you can’t even cash out your earnings unless you get an equal amount of purchases in your downline, right? So until you recruit, whatever you think you’re making is just numbers on the screen.
That right there should show you it’s a ponzi. Add that to the fact that just like you, everyone else is earning rebates (thus are affiliates). Think about it – why would anyone buy advertising as a customer (even if they do think it has value) when the only difference is that they would forgo the daily rebate?
So no matter what, you’ll always have a 100% affiliate funded program, where each purchase creates a liability with the rebate. With many of the top leaders grandfathered in at the 4%/day level, it’s pretty clear it’s not sustainable.
And just one more question – explain the business logic behind why you purchasing advertising through a company would automatically qualify you for a >100% rebate. Even if it was sustainable, the business model fundamentally makes no sense.
Please be more specific, e.g. the TYPES of businesses you’re promoting and number of customers you have got from the advertising. I only need ONE example, but you can add more if you like.
Its predecessor “GoodleAdz” never managed to lift from the ground, but it WAS “around”
for a long timerandomly over a period of 2 years. It may still be “around”.
OUUCCCHHHH….!!!! You may be right,,Maybe i am bored. Maybe i am trying to find out the truth.. either way, When i try to find out what i would consider appropriate questions about this business, my questions get deleted .. then I’m told to contact customer service with my issue. (What issue)..
Wanting to know were this LEAF is located? Wanting to know who own’s LEAF? Wanting to know if Leaf is legal to operate here in the states .. These questions should not get deleted..They should be answered to everyone (anyone) all the time..
if people are getting involved in any business anywhere..and can’t find these simple facts..they should open their eyes….!!!
My so called temper tantrum has been responsible for me passing on many.. many of these unknown company’s.. that by the way a lot of my friends DID NOT pass on.. Now, they lost and some of them lost big.. So, don’t tell me to GIVE IT A BREAK..
A step by step process is normally more interesting …
1. “I pay money IN to Leaf, and get AdCredits”
2. Then I can use AdCredits to purchase a number of views
3. Then I earn a daily rebate in AdCredits
4. Then I can use the AdCredits to purchase more views
3. Then I earn a daily rebate in AdCredits
4. Then I can use the AdCredits to purchase more views
3. Then I earn a daily rebate in AdCredits
4. Then I can use the AdCredits to purchase more views
That will also explain the business idea. Money comes IN from the affiliates under point #1, and after that it’s simply about “points” (AdCredits).
MONEY is being paid OUT through other parts of the compensation plan, to people who have recruited a downline and to the organizers.
* the money will end up where it belongs, at the organizers and people who have contributed to recruit more investors,
* AdCredits will end up where it belongs, at the people watching 20 webpages per day to earn their daily AdCredit rebate, dreaming about what they can buy when the AdCredit balance has multiplied 2 4 8 16 32 or more times.
Julie may of course have another explanation, I only tried to give her an example. She might have something about how the AdCredits can be “converted” into money, or something about “equal to money”.
I forgot to mention one thing …
Everyone who joins relatively early and recruit minimum 2 new investors have a relatively fair chance to get their money back – in THEORY. But Leaf has probably several people grandfathered in at a higher level than yourself, a “Founders Club” or something (they simply HAD TO promise people SOMETHING to attract them).
But you can still beat those founders if you withdraw 100% of all commissions from your downline.
The “founders” joined because they believed in “the Greater Fool” theory, i.e. “There should be many more fools out there, making us become the smart ones”. And they were right. Julie was there, eagerly waiting for a chance to earn AdCredits.
What a load of bollocks. Leaf are paying you a ROI out of newly invested money under the guise of purchasing advertising.
Yes, Ponzi schemes can be passive – what’s your point?
Well for starters, they’re not running a Ponzi scheme.
I joined up Leaf using the free account and had a look around.
It seem to me that Vleaf is changing. Have a look at vleaf.com they no longer say anything about offering compensation for recruiting. Interesting.
While I am still convinced from exterior, the business model, the questions about owners/founders, address so on, that it is a pyramid scheme/ponzi scam.
But from the interior, it is damn convincing that it is not. But it also raised 2 questions.
1: You are able to add any website, and invest an ad on that website within Leaf community Social Web Optizimer. Once you ‘add’ a website, no one else can claim that website.
Now that brings up my first question: Is this copyright breach? You are adding a website, and then place ad and earn money from it on an intellectual property that is not yours.
2: I found out that as long you meetind daily requirement, no matter how many views you get for your ad, you get same % rebate as every other Leaf for your ad investment. If you do get a lot of views, you get the bonuses.
Okay that kinda make sense, since ad attracts traffic and traffic gives you money. Wait a minute.. who pays you for the Traffic? Leaf? And who pays Leaf? Hmmm. That part still doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when the actual website isn’t paying Leaf for all the traffic, in fact the website wouldn’t even know about Leaf and all see is “spike in traffic”
Despite all that.
I actually like the concept of SWO. It can be gamechanging and it is possible that Leaf HQ knows that which is why they are changing the model, terms and conditions, so on.
Put it this way; Leaf and SWO isn’t for everyone, it is actually for website owners and developers.
If made a legimate website. I would go to Leaf, register it, advertise it so I can get traffic to my website and get feedback.
The feedback would improve my website while it is in construction and refining, and the traffic can kickstart my ACTUAL advertising I have on my website from Google Ads, whatever.
Just stopped back to let you know that the advertising has real value. I just got a comment about my website from a potential customer.
I have saved a number of websites to my favorites and ordered something from one of them. Many of the associates that I talk to are finding awesome businesses that they never heard of.
Leaf is sustainable and has a great product. Website builder coming soon for those businesses that don’t have a website. Cities coming soon to target the advertising. Who really cares about who the founders are. Facebook was started in a dorm room.
Whether the advertising has value or not is irrelevant when the company pays out a ROI to existing affiliates using new affiliate money.
The only people advertising are going to be affiliate-investors. Bang for buck it makes no sense for retail advertisers to advertise on money game websites. Despite them all claiming they provide great value to retail advertisers.
There is nothing targeted about showing advertising to people viewing them because they expect a ROI (unless perhaps you advertise similar schemes to them, which is pretty much all these sites end up advertising).
Leaf is offering double value on new advertising purchases for the next month. So, for example, $5000 gets credited as $10,000. Pretty clear that they’re running on of money when you see something like that, so should be close to game over, right?
Is vleaf leaf international a ponzi?…
Can you see any retail activity within the company?
It’s a hybrid type = recruitment AND investment. I haven’t analysed the details. It will reward recruitment more than investments, so a quick answer is “pyramid / Ponzi hybrid” (Ponzi scheme investments to attract investors, but with a compensation plan that heavily will favorise recruitment and prevent to much withdrawals from non recruiters).
When identifying a business model, you should first try to identify the most significant part of it, “the core engine of the business”.
Leaf International is in the “Attract money from investors by offering ROI and recruitment commissions” niche. The rest of the business is about rather insignificant details, it will be about attracting a specific TYPE of investors, e.g. people believing in specific ideas (e.g. “If we call it rebate rather than ROI, then the payouts will be completely legitimate”.
Leaf International has primarily been set up to attract a specific type of “true believer investors”, probably from another program that already has collapsed.
If leaf is a illegal ponzi, how come the sec has not shut them down like zeek?
Ask the SEC. This is the “we’re legal until the authorities shut us down” argument and it’s flawed. A company’s business model determines what it is, not regulatory action.
Regulatory action only holds those responsible accountable for the business model.
Funny, that’s what Zeekheads asked “if it’s illegal, why haven’t SEC or FTC shut it down already?” right up to the day Secret Service changed the locks on Zeek office.
That’s not the question you should be asking. Because you don’t know when the government will strike. If they telegraph their intent, the leaders will be long gone.
But that’s NOT what you’re really asking is it? Your real question is “how long can I milk this cow? And can I make back what I put in?”
i have a question anyone have the registration with the chamber of comerce of panama to the company?…
I don’t believe they hand those out. I know they’re not searchable online.
I am a member of leaf and I have been asking the questions about how leaf can say they share a percentage of the daily profits if the points don’t translate into $$$? leaf doesnot add to one’s total volume. the total volume only increases when you get more people under you to put money in.
I bought the dream of creating a new social network that combines business and people in a better way and tapping into the multi billion $$$ market…since I joined in august lots of things have changed.
I have met with and talked with the ceo and top marketing guy. they were great in the beginning, but they would not answer questions of paying co percentages(which is supposed to be a selling point…..I would like to sell it if they would tell me how I could HONESTLY do so).
so the great profit sharing from what I can see (since the top people that I have called and e-mailed as well as those in line above me won’t answer my questions and have gotten really upset with me) are only points that are used to indicated what you can take out of the co. and the profit sharing is members getting people to sign up and sharing that $$ with leaf.
I asked how we would profit from creating the social network for leaf and was told that maybe this co is not for you……..I am still waiting for answers.
I find it very curious that there are many people that profess to be Christian involved and they seem to be treating this as a religion….if one is not a true believer they are castigated.
I have not found very many jesus like responses …there are some nice people involved….but they don’t like being questioned….they also focus on signing new members and not taking care of you once you are signed up…..
leaf is now supposedly registered in Nevada and headquarters in Coeur d alene Idaho. the foreigners are out and it has been reorganized. time will tell if it is going to make it.
the vision is a good sell. how that will translate to actuality will have to be seen. my friends and I bought the concept of a different business model that is true profit-sharing with innovative social network….
my concern is that the multilevel aspect of the business (us) may build the social network for leaf who would then make $$$$$ on big advertisers and not need us after we built the thing…..
they implied that we would make $$$$ from that advertising in the socialnetwork…but I have asked how and there is nothing in place presently to fofill that.
Can somebody advise me on how to recover my fund from leaf nternational.
Contacting Leaf itself and your local authorities is your best bet. The chance you’ll get any of it back though are realistically slim.
Chalk it up as a lesson learnt.
Thank you for the most helpful information.
re: Leaf..I had posted more on the 16th that did not get in. I am curious as to why.
I said that if one lived in the Spokane or Coeur d Alene area one could go to the corp. office as the policy of John, the CEO encouraged walk in visits to the corp office. I said I had met with him there and at meetings and met the CFO and other founders. I have met the top marketing people and they ran many meetings I attended.
I said I, and my friends agreed that these people are very sincere and come across as good people and not the typical MLM hawkers. The only person that is very typical of pushing a MLM sales pitch is the head marketing guy who just can’t help being that way…..but he is a nice guy.
This is my, and others close to me opinion. This is from many interactions in one on one, conversations, e-mails and meetings.
In the earlier post I said that the vision they are promoting is admirable and exciting and hopefully doable…..so much so, that some of us are just hanging out to see if it can fly. Then if it can fly how can it (the social network) make money for us that created it.
I said that the people that I have been around and had around me in Leaf are really nice people. Some have never done a MLM before and are somewhat naive but like the vision that was promoted—-which is about interconnectivity and helping one another.
If all of this does not get posted then this site has an agenda and I thought this was supposed to be a neutral forum. I only want to be informative in a real way…..I am still watching and hanging out…..
Oh, yes, one other thing that I posted before that did not get on the forum, My up line had a meeting with a powerful buisnessman she knows, and his opinion was that of all the MLM’s out there, this one looked pretty good. I know my upline very well ans she is trusted by me….what else can say — lynn
And Paul “Zeek Rewards” Burks looks like a grandpa. So?
Frankly, if they don’t look sincere, you would have left. So it doesn’t really mean anything by itself.
Perhaps you should do some research on how much does it really cost to get a domain and hosting for a website, vs. how much it costs to buy the equivalent ads on Google Adsense (which we know works, instead of some no-name ad network Leaf uses) and see if Leaf’s prices are competitive, to see how it’s generating that profit share…
So, are saying you are not sure how to evaluate a business on your on? Is hearsay evidence acceptable in making business decisions? Is emotion acceptable in evaluating a business?
Define “powerful business man”. Are you sure you/she is not confusing that with “POLITE business man” ?
People that have a dream are very susceptible to hearing only what they WANT to hear. At the same time, MOST successful business people didnt get there by telling other people their business ideas are stupid.
I often try to tell it like it is but I will also, be polite an uninsulting when people present me a business opportunity, even if it is a stupid one. Often I will say “yeah, looks great” etc, etc, rather than dash their dreams or get into a pissing match.
You also say that there arent many “mlmers” in the company? So, in otherwords, even the MLMers dont find merit in this?
I’m going off memory here, but I believe you attached recruitment spam to the end of your initial comment. I sent it to the spambin.
As for Leaf, being nice wont get them anywhere. Every social network MLM to date has failed, there is just isn’t enough advertising dollars to go round. Less so when the network is just full of opportunity participants.
I agree with you all…… I just wanted to give as much info as I could…cause I have met these people….and if you were referring to me about recruitment spam….I did not.
I have not signed anyone up nor do I intend to unless I see things happen the way they intended in their sales pitch….so, no I would not and have not tried to recruit anyone since june 2013….. I cant sell something unless I think it has integrity and I am still waiting to see…..just sharing with you all.
I don’t usually take the time to do this ..as Socrates said — or should have, “your opinions. are vomit” and I usually don’t think another opinion is needed—so I don’t waste my time or the readers out there with my “vomit” just trying to be somewhat informative….
and you guys are right in your anaylasis and opinions. I really appriciate this site, by the way…..
Not sure why the initial comment didn’t come through then lynn. I only flag comments for spam for specific reasons. Nothing I saw in the repost would have triggered it.
I would like it if you could re do your review of leaf international. what you describe above is no longer the case as leaf has changed a lot. they have revamped just about everything including the upcoming introduction of the IT app.
Had a look at the comp plan on the leaf site and it still uses a 3×9 matrix and revolves around affiliates spending money on advertising.
So uh, other than stuff they’ve bundled with the same old comp plan, what exactly has changed?
See how easy it is to fool people ??
All they have to do is pretend they will have a new app at some vague time in the future and people send money.
Forget about “show me the money”
Smart people would say “show me the app” before committing the money.
Here’s to hoping they introduce the app “soon” instead of like a whole YEAR of vaporware like Rippln.
FOMO, LRM. FOMO (fear of missing out)
I somehow don’t think this is the sort of situation he had in mind when Winston Churchill so famously said:
“Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, give up. Never give up. Never give up. Never give up.”
“Your achievement can be no greater than your PLANS are sound.” — Napoleon Hill
If your plans are not sound, no matter how much you don’t give up, there will be little if any achievement.
That sounded like a “general disclaimer” for the rest of the content. 🙂
“These methods might fail, but then we will blame your plans rather than the methods”.
Except that’s the part that’s NEVER mentioned by people who cite Napoleon Hill. 🙂
This company is now called Leafit and it us another Scam STAY AWAY. RIP OFF COMPANY!
Any new news on this company?
Nothing further on my end.