KB Gold Review: European based gold investment
KB Gold (which stands for “Karat Bars Gold”) is purportedly a German company and as such I had a bit of a difficult time conducting research into the company.
The company’s official website appears to solely exist in German and contains no information about the company itself.
From what little I was able to glen from affiliate owned sites however (I always take information on affiliate owned websites with a grain of salt), it appears KB Gold is a division of “KB Kapital & Business GMBH”, who
are a 16-year old company that has its own gold mines, production, refinery and storage facilities.
In their first 14 years, their main products were wealth management, insurance and pension plans.
In May 2008 KB launched the gold purchase plan into their portfolio. This quickly became a huge success and since some 30.000+ customers in Germany, Austria and Switzerland have made gold purchase plans with KB.
Again with this all being sourced from German sources, I haven’t been able to independently verify the information.
Management wise I’ve read that a “Mike Koschine” is running things, with no other executive position holders publicly named.
Koschine himself appears to be a real person, but once again I wasn’t able to verify any past history in MLM (he apparently launched KB’s operations back in 1994.
Read on for a full review of the KB Gold MLM business opportunity.
The KB Gold Product Line
As the name suggests, KB Gold market gold itself to “investors”. Investors hand over money to KB Gold and the company converts this into gold (which they themselves purportedly produce). KB Gold market this as a “savings plan”.
Payment is made monthly and gold is stored with KB Gold in Switzerland. Obviously this raises the question of whether or not the gold really exists, however the company claims
gold valued at € 3,000 or more can be delivered directly to your front door, free of charge.
In 2010 several investigations were opened by German authorities after suspicions into whether or not KB Gold were producing the gold they claimed they were with these investigations closed upon authorities verifying the gold actually existed.
By all accounts there appears to be legitimacy on the gold manufacturing side of the business.
The KB Gold Compensation Plan
Dubbed the “KB Franchise System”, KB Gold’s compensation plan revolves around the purchase of gold (investment), with each 100 EUR invested equating to 100 points for the KB Gold affiliate who referred the customer.
KB Gold Membership Ranks
Within the KB Gold compensation plan there are nine membership ranks and, along with their respective qualification criteria, they are as follows:
- Consultant in training – entry level affiliate position
- Consultant – 300 points generated cumulatively
- Junior Consultant – 800 points generated cumulatively
- Senior Consultant – generate a minimum of 500 points monthly
- Supervisor – generate a minimum of 1250 points monthly
- Manager – generate a minimum of 2500 points monthly
- Area Manager – generate a minimum of 4000 points monthly
- Country Manager – generate a minimum of 6000 points monthly
- Executive Manager – generate a minimum of 9000 points monthly
Note that points are tallied using a unilevel compensation structure, meaning that an affiliate’s downline’s efforts also count toward their monthly point total (down infinite levels).
Recruitment Commissions
KB Gold affiliates are paid recruitment commissions, paid out per new customer/affiliate signed up who invest a minimum of 1,500 EUR.
How much of a commission is paid out depends on an affiliate’s membership rank:
- Consultant in training – 100 EUR
- Consultant – 200 EUR
- Junior Consultant – 280 EUR
- Senior Consultant – 350 EUR
- Supervisor – 420 EUR
- Manager – 500 EUR
- Area Manager – 575 EUR
- Country and Executive Managers – 650 EUR
Note that these are the maximum pay outs available, subject to a signed up customer investing 1,500 EUR in gold. If a customer has invested less (100 EUR minimum), payouts are still made but are based calculated pro-rata, based on how much of a percentage of 1,500 EUR has been invested.
Eg. If a customer has invests 750 EUR initially, the affiliate will receive half their membership rank bonus (with the other half paid out incrementally until the customer has invested 1,500 EUR total).
Residual Commissions
Residual commissions are paid out monthly on the continued investment in gold by recruited customers/affiliates.
Residual commissions are paid out on the amount of gold invested in during any given month, with how much of a commission paid out dependant on an affiliate’s membership rank:
- Consultant – 1%
- Junior Consultant – 1.5%
- Senior Consultant – 2%
- Supervisor – 2.5%
- Manager – 3%
- Area Manager – 4%
- Country and Executive Managers – 5%
Bonus Pools
The KB Gold compensation material makes mention of “KB Global Funds” and “GMI Bonus” pools, however no further information is provided.
Joining KB Gold
Membership to KB Gold is free, there is no distinction between KB Gold customers and affiliates.
Conclusion
On the gold manufacturing side of things, I don’t really see any problems with the KB Gold business model. Quite obviously it’s an investment with affiliates only purchasing the gold with an expectation of receiving an increased return as the gold value increases, however gold itself is a tangible product.
Should KB Gold not be actually purchasing gold with the money sent to them, there’d obviously be a problem but as per the German authorities investigations this appears to not be the case, in that dollar for dollar gold is being matched to the money coming in.
MLM wise there’s a big issue however with no differentiation between customers and affiliates. KB Gold is free to sign up to (as either customer or affiliate) with all customers able to recruit affiliates and participate in the compensation plan.
The minimum 100 EUR investment in gold cited frequently throughout the compensation plan could easily be construed as the minimum required to participate, and therefore it would be possible to join KB Gold and treat it as a pyramid scheme with a 100 EUR minimum buy in.
Naturally real gold or not, that would obviously not be sustainable as eventually KB Gold’s affiliates would run out of new members to recruit. Why, when gold itself is a tangible product, KB Gold have set up their compensation plan this way I have no idea.
And on that note, for a company that claims to have been in business since 1994, I do think it’s worth pointing out that the complete lack of information on the KB Gold website is pretty underwhelming.
A lot of the affiliate sites I visited (for lack of a better reference point) mentioned KB Gold wanting to or already having expanded in the US and much of the rest of the world. If they’re doing so with the shell of a website they’ve got now best of luck to them.
Until that’s sorted out I’d be thinking long and hard about joining KB Gold and working this business. These days due diligence via the internet is a given and the last thing you want are non-German members finding themselves at a German language only website that explains nothing to them about the company (and looks as if it was coded using Frontpage and 90s era HTML coding standards).
All in all I think KB Gold is a bit hit and miss but ultimately I think the lack of differentiation between customers and affiliates drags the opportunity into “be cautious” territory.
A lack of differentiation means a lack of true retail sales and with the company storing your bought gold for you (with no way of seeing it until you’ve invested 3000 EUR minimum), that’s not exactly confidence inspiring (despite the fact that I’m sure there are KB Gold members out there who could attest they’ve received gold via delivery from the company).
Definitely approach this one with caution folks.
I have watched and read your reviews for several years and appreciate the service you provide to many of us. However, on this review there seems to be some confusion.
Karatbars International and KB are two very distinctively different companies. Mike Kochine does own KB Edelmetal but has nothing to do with Karatbars International.
I never mentioned “Karatbars International”.
As best I could tell KB Gold is a MLM company attached to this KB Edelmetal gig.
Sorry, was just confused when you said, “KB Gold (which stands for “Karat Bars Gold”)”
Karatbars is a trademarked name of Karatbars International
😉
I checked some of their marketing claims around March 2010, when KB Gold was introduced in Norway, BEFORE they drowned the internet in marketing and BEFORE they corrected some mistakes (e.g. producing better “proofs”).
In Norway, it was introduced by well-known people from the pyramid/Ponzi scheme environment, also known as “experienced networkers”.
The “proof” for the goldmine in Turkey was only a license to search for minerals in an area. The price for a license like that is around €5,000 if I remember it correctly.
* It was from the correct authority (natural resources authority)
* 18 months old (OK in itself, the licenses are usually for 3 or 5 years with renewal rights)
* but there’s a big difference between “having a licence” and “producing gold from our own goldmine”
* the area didn’t show any signs of mining activity (I used several different sources, e.g. Google Earth and Google Maps, several pictures from the area).
German reporters tried to investigate other parts of their claims, e.g. the office in Turkey and the “Gold Vault in Saint Gotthard’s Massif”. Both claims were false. That video has later been drowned in KB Gold’s own marketing.
The conclusion in 2010 was “several red flags”. I did NOT check it as an opportunity, I only tried to verify their own different claims and other information I found.
One funny thing in 2010 was the corrections they made. I posted comments in a pyramid forum, e.g. about the goldmine — “A goldmine isn’t just a whole in the mountain side, it will need roads, trucks, refinery, buildings, workers”. And that popped up on their website a few weeks later, pictures from a real goldmine showing EXACTLY what I had requested.
The only thing they had forgot was the terrain. The pictures showed a relatively flat terrain, but the goldmine should be in a very rough terrain.
The sources I used in 2010 were the TalkGold forum, a local pyramid forum in Norway, KB Gold’s own website(s), some German information (e.g. warning from the authorities, investigation by reporters).
Investigations by the German authorities in 2010 were probably more reliable than my research.
The more I think about it the more I’m not really comfortable with a product you buy but the company keeps for you.
I’m not accusing anyone of anything but there’s just way too much wiggle room for fraud there. And with a 3000 EUR cap before you can see anything, it’d be a long time before those participating would get a heads up.
I will point out that e-Buillion was indicted by US Federal court for fraud, and the owner, Jim Fayed, was later found guilty of killing his business partner, and sentenced to death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency#Management_and_political_risks
The licence was for an area in Turkey named Caglayan, in the north-eastern part of Turkey, near the Georgian border.
County or state: Borcka
County capital city: Artvin
Place: Caglayan
Coordinates in decimal degrees:
41.460475° (North)
42.039532° (East)
I used Google Earth, Google Maps and several other sources when I checked that area in 2010. A goldmine is much more than just a hole into a mountain. 🙂
KB Gold (company name KB Edelmetall GmbH) tried to push a similar scheme in 2010 – 2011; Gold “certificates” sold by MLM (a.k.a. pyramid scheme) methods.
2 problems with this scheme:
1) If you bought gold from KB Gold, you would pay approximately:
– 30% more than the sell-back price to KB Gold
– 50% more than the world market gold price
– 45% more than gold coins like e.g. Krugerrands
If you bought gold for less than 3000 EUR, the losses were even worse.
2) The customer did not actually receive the gold, only a company-printed “certificate” that the gold was stored in an unknown/unverified vault somewhere. There were stong doubts that the gold actually existed, and if the company should fold, no guarantee that the gold/money would be returned to the owner.
If you google ‘KB Gold’, ‘KB Edelmetall’ or ‘Mike Koschine’, you get numerous hits in German Language, often with strong warnings from consumer authorities, consumer advocates or news media, against investing money with this company.
On 14 July 2010, an associate of KB Edelmetall, who was carrying 815 950 EUR in undeclared cash, was arrested at Frankfurt Airport before he could board a plane to Riga in Latvia. This money was seized by German authorities, as it was suspected that instead of using this money (paid in by KB Gold customers/investors) to purchase gold, KB Edelmetall was going to deposit (money laundering) the money in Latvian banks.
On 24 March 2011, a German court ruled that KB Edelmetall GmbH had to pay back all money paid in by investors.
Conclusion:
Stay away from KB Gold, KB Edelmetall, Mike Koschina and associated comanies / schemes.
If you want to invest in gold, by 1 oz gold bars or gold coins (e.g. Krugerrands, Canadian Maple Leaf) and store them in a secure location controlled by yourself! Don’t mix up gold investment with any kind of MLM/pyramid scheme!
I found one of the reports, from “Frontal21” news (in German):
I checked KB Gold in March 2010, and the report from “Frontal21” was posted a few months later, in August 2010.Main points of the feature from German TV Network ZDF:
– KB gold uses horror propaganda in their marketing, and targets owners of “black” (undeclared) money.
– Financial and consumer protection experts warn customers against KB Edelmetall (= KB Gold).
– KB Gold advertise that they have a gold processing and gold bar manufacturing plant at a specific address in Ankara, Turkey. When the reporters check this address, they find that the address is an ordinary residential building, with no such gold processing plant.
– The core company is stated to be KB AG, registered in Lüzern, Switzerland. However, no such company exists (and is not known) at the specified address in Lüzern (Merkurstr. 7, CH-6020 Emmenbrücke).
– KB Edelmetall has an office in München. However, they refuse to answer any questions, stating that they are representing a Swiss company.
– In a related case, interview with a German lady who had invested (modestly) in a gold savings plan with Sutor Bank in Hamburg; When she became unemployed and wanted to withdraw the savings, she found that every Euro was lost, consumed by various fees imposed by Sutor Bank and its partners.
As a final insult, an additional fee of 270 EUR, in addition to all the money the lady had ‘saved’ (and lost), was claimed by Sutor Bank.
– The German Financial Oversight Authority states that it performs no monitoring of gold investment/savings schemes.
– Conclusion: Golden times for the bloodsuckers, poor times for the customers.
Note: Mike Koschina was running KB Edelmetall in 2010, and is still running it.
Note 2: Mike Koschina is a German citizen. It is therefore probable that KB AG in Switzerland is simply a mailbox company established for tax evasion and money laundering purposes.
Note 3: In September 2010, five German banks had terminated the bank accounts of KB Edelmetall.
RUMOURS
Rumours in 2010 indicated a Slovenian organizer for the NWM part of the scheme, but I didn’t find more info on that part.
“Slovenian organizer” means the scheme has originated from Slovenia, in the pyramid scheme “environment”, with KB Gold in Germany as a facade for a pyramid scheme, and had been tested locally in Slovenia, Germany and neighbouring countries, before it was introduced in Scandinavia via experienced organizers there.
I didn’t try to verify any of those rumours, because of language problems.
TYPICAL INVESTOR PROBLEM
Lots of different company names can be a problem for investors, e.g. when they make an agreement with company “A”, the money goes through companies “B” and “C”, before it ends up in “D” or “E”, where some of the companies involved are located in different countries/jurisdictions.
KB Gold seems to have been organized in that way, making it chaotic for investors to identify where their money has ended up. This method is commonly used in frauds to skim money from investors.
“Rumours” and “typical investor problem” were parts of my initial check in March 2010, but I didn’t dig deep into any details. An initial check is only meant to get an overview over potential problems, not to draw any absolute conclusions.
My mother has been trying to close her account with Karatbars for over a month now. They keep giving her the run around.
They offered her an amount, which she accepted, but karatbars Int. is claiming fees might be associated to her account. When I closed my account, it was easy. They wired the agreed amount back to the debit card I used within 4 days. My mother banks at the same institution as I.
Now, they have completely ignored her request. No response back to at least 5 emails sent about the return of her money, which they promised.
Don’t invest in this company. Stay far away. There many other reputable gold dealers out there; Karatbars isn’t one of them.
Has it been determined wether KB Gold and karatBar Gold are two totally seperate companies? As KaratBar Gold seems to have attracted several high ranking organo gold distribtors who are now pushing KaratBar Gold heavily from Australia through facebook?
As I understand it “KB Gold”, “Karatbars Gold” and “Karatbars” in the MLM world refers to the KB Gold MLM opportunity reviewed here.
This is separate to the “KaratBars International” company which golfer girl mentioned in her comment (#1).
Run far away from a company that can’t even keep its own name straight. Either it picked a name that’s too common/ too scammy, or it’s a scam with a sound-alike name to a real biz.
Is karatbars.com official website for the Karatbars International that golfer girl mentioned in first comment ? I got this video that points to it youtube.com/watch?v=YUB1nXG-avU then I found this mykbgold.com/tag/kb-vision/page/2/
If my findings are correct KB Gold, KB Gold Vision and Karatbars International are all the same thing just with different names, with Karatbars International being the latest installment of this whole scheme.
Also, can someone find out where did they take photos for the “team” karatbars.com/index.php?page=karatbars_team
I am just about to invest in karatbars. I have enlisted some friends. As a true freind would not like to lead them down false paths.
I will enclose another point of view I found on the net. Please where can one find the facts. Many people have requested that I do an insight in to the world of KBI 9999.
First of all, I would like to say that a woman who requested me to do an examination of Karat Bars International lost approximately 17,000 US dollars. From this tidbit of information, I began to do a little more snooping around and have found some interesting information.
Karatbars International is rated by the Better Business Bureau as C MINUS according to the US government. This means that multiple customer have filed complaints and shows that Karatbars International is not an organization to be trusted or an organization that needs any investment of time or money.
The origins of KBI lie in Germany which can make it difficult for any American in the US to interpret government records from Germany through legit business practices. If there is any issue in America, then there will be no way to recover funds because it is a German company.
The German government reveals that only 2% of people involved in KBI recieve an income, whilst 98% sit in the dust. They work for the 2% to make money and sacrifice all of the gold and glory. Also, only 90% of costs are used to cover the cost of the business and help earn any type of income through selling Gold in smaller increments. Only 5% of people earn an income that is more than $50 dollars a week.
No matter how much your upline is telling you, you have to understand that they are planting dreams into your head to have the idea that there is an EASY way to earn money. But that is not correct. Earning money involves working for it. There is no such thing as EASY money. Remember if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn’t true.
KBI is also marketed via spam e-mails. This means that in order to approach as many people as possible they hacked into MLM schemes that had the e-mail list of organizations such as Monavie, Bidify, TVI Express, Unaico, and ZeekRewards. All of these companies sound familiar because they have been investigated by the FBI as well as the SEC and SHUT DOWN.
They bought out these e-mails from these companies as the company was going down to approach people who already had been vulnerable to previous schemes. If they are marketing people via e-mail they must be desperate for people who have too much time on their hands to read their spam inbox.
Another issue one should look into before committing any time into KBI is what is the potential for this product realistically? KBI sells people on a wonderful idea, but is that idea sustainable in the long run and is it possible that people will be able to profit from this legitimately time and time again.
Do not fall prey to greedy people who come up with ideas to rip off the poor little people sold on an idea with no factual evidence. KBI is a scam and will not be able to hold up appropriately.
Do not lose your money to an idea that sounds good, make sure you invest your time and money with a strong foundation that does not have any flaws in the system.
I haven’t checked KB Gold / KaratBars since 2010, when it was introduced in Norway through a pyramid scheme forum.
What TYPE of investment do they offer now? A position in the network (what they offered in 2010), or something else?
A POSITION IN THE NETWORKA position in the network means you will become a distributor for KB, and can recruit other distributors in a downline and earn commissions from that. You can of course also sell memberships to retail customers, if they have any.
You can also participate in your own private gold saving plan, e.g. make monthly purchases from KB (partially or fully paid, receivable as physical gold or as gold certificates).
CUSTOMER TYPE OF MEMBERSHIPA customer type of member can buy gold for personal use or for resale, but they can not earn any commission from recruitment of other customers or distributors.
A reduced price can be a type of recruitment commission, e.g. sales methods like “Recruit 2 other customers on monthly autoship and get 10% discount on your personal purchases”.
Customers do normally not recruit other customers actively, and if they do that it will normally be about a ONE TIME reward in products rather than about REPEATED commissions or discounts.
WHY I’M ASKING?I know how it was sold when it was introduced in Norway in 2010, but I’m not updated on how it typically is being sold now.
In 2010, they typically tried to sell the opportunity itself = recruit new distributors INTO the program rather than selling products TO consumers.
But after that I have found a couple of forum posts where people have planned to buy gold from KB as customers rather than as distributors. People wanting to buy something as consumers will typically ask other types of questions than people wanting to join an opportunity.
I’m asking because the information I found then was too vague to be interpreted, e.g. some vague information about discount or “referrals”.
Wow…. Looks like a lot of confusion and speculation, truths and down right lies mentioned above. Maybe I can help clear up some of this.
In 2008 I was approached by a mutual friend in regard to KB Edelmetal (aka KB Gold) The owner of the company was Mike Koschine. While I liked the business model to allow an easy and affordable option for the average person to obtain 999.9 bullion, it seemed the company took forever to open outside Germany & Switzerland.
I am not aware of any gold company from Norway and can not comment on that. This is what I know to be true and accurate on both companies of KB Edelmetal & KB Vision who later became Karatbars International.
I later found out, a gentleman by the name of Harald Seiz had developed the basic business structure on how to make gold affordable for the masses by distributing small units and had given Mike Koschine the business plan.
At the time, Mike Koschine did own the refinery KB Malden in Turkey and yes it had purchased land in Turkey for exploratory search of gold within the mines located there. However, Mike did not want to offer gold through the internet but rather direct sales.
Harald Seiz was emphatic that this could be done IF you aligned yourself with reputable companies in the industry. During this time, I watched as the Frontal 21 videos were made, but I also spoke with others who said they had never had a problem with quality with KB Gold.
The Frontal 21 clips have been proven to be false numerous times… I think if you check a little further you will find the same.
In one video, they went to a neighborhood in a different town and could not find the office. It was obvious they knew the name of the town KB was located in but opted for the sensationalism of their purported story. They were slammed by others including pictures of the office with people standing in front of the building.
The second story had to do with close to a million euros being confiscated at the airport in Frankfort. This was true, but the rest of the story was…. The security company hired to deliver cash to the refinery in Turkey declared the cash in Munich and when they arrived in Frankfurt the declaration was not showing in the system.
They conveniently sensationalized the story, neglected to inform the public the funds were being carried by licensed security personnel. This also was cleared up and all funds were released back to KB.
At this time, Harald Seiz decided that Mike would always be a controversial figure and chose to separate himself from the situation. He set out on his own and created KB Vision. In the beginning of KB Vision, the gold came from KB Malden refinery in Turkey. He began KB Vision which began delivery to the US and other countries as an E commerce company in April, 2010.
As I said, in the beginning Harald purchased the product from the refinery owned by Mike Kochine. The refinery required a contract of 100 grams to be acquired over time. The first 25 grams were to be held in reserve until the completion of the contract.
This was a difficult hurdle and one Mr. Seiz did not want to operate under. After a course of events, Mr Seiz decided to completely separate himself from Mike Koschine and move forward with his business model he laid out in the beginning. He then decided to trademark his company internationally but you can not trademark initials…. which is why the company is known as Karatbars International today.
Mr. Seiz aligned himself with refineries that are only listed on the LBMA’s good delivery list of refineries. He did away with the 100 gram contract from KB Malden refinery. He wanted clients to be able to acquire one gram at a time and take delivery if they so chose.
He also offered free storage in the reputable vaults of Prosegur in Germany. Prosegur is the 3rd largest transporter of precious metals in the world today and the largest in Germany.
The Karatbars business model is not MLM, it is legally and officially recognized as an E commerce company with an affiliate arm. The company offers 7 different pay streams. They do not require personal sponsorship’s of others or any purchase of gold to earn an income. There are no fees involved to have a Karatbars account. If you refer others, you get paid, if you don’t you are not penalized.
I have worked with Harald Seiz for the past 3 years, and I personally think he is one of the most honest men I have ever worked with. Commissions have been paid on time …every time and sometimes early. My gold has arrived safely to my door every time I purchased.
The comments above in reference to Karatbar having a C- rating with the BBB…. Really???? When did the BBB start reporting on companies based in Germany??? Karatbars is not listed with the BBB… They are however recommended by Bund de Sparer a German Consumer Watchdog group our of Germany.
The lady that wrote the blog about the C- rating hides behind a fake name and has her blog set to where it is hard to find out who she is. A few friends had their computer guys try to find out who this was.. So far, we know she lives in the San Diego area and she works for another gold company.
The entire article is bogus and she obviously knows nothing about what it takes to be aligned with the LBMA refineries or the World Gold Council members such as Prosegur.
Actually Better Business Bureau is not an government organization. It is private organization.
Thanks for the additional information golfergirl.
My only issue was this paragraphs:
Do any of those “pay streams” pay out commissions over multiple levels? If so then Karatbars is an MLM company, period.
Choosing not to recruit and earn commissions on said recruitment does not negate possibility to recruit and get paid on said recruitment.
If Karatbars are paying affiliates to recruit new affiliates, with nothing being bought or sold to the general public in the process, then that fits the definition of a pyramid scheme.
My comment was about KB Gold in spring 2010. It was introduced through typical pyramid scheme channels, e.g. former “World Leaders” from collapsed pyramid schemes.
There’s no doubt what it was about, a recruitment based income opportunity with a lot of misleading marketing claims. It was also marketed on the TalkGold forum.
“KB Gold” was the name that was used in Norway, in March 2010, and also on the TalkGold forum. It was the same group of companies as “KB Edelmetall” and “KB Vision”, and different other company names (I checked some company registries in Germany and Switzerland).
The description of “customers / distributors” were EXAMPLES for what I was asking about. I was asking about how it typically was marketed, e.g. as an income opportunity or as purchases of gold. Those two types will have appeal to quite different types of markets.
In 2010, it was typically marketed as a recruitment based income opportunity by former pyramid scheme organizers. That will effectively kill the interest in most other parts of the market, it will attract get rich quick’ers rather than gold buyers. It will also attract “investigations” like the Frontal21 report.
Why anyone would get involved with this I have no idea. Gold for the masses? The masses can easily invest in a Gold ETF on a recognized stock exchange with almost no cost, immediate liquidity and SPIC insurance.
What possible benefit is there to having a few slivers of gold in a vault in Turkey that is controlled by an unknown company? Totally illiquid. exorbitant transaction fees. Completely unsafe….and the holdings are not even accessible if needed. Wow. What people will buy into is amazing.
It’s about laminated plastic cards with a “mini gold bar” 995.0 gold, 0.5 grams to 20 grams (0.5 1.0 2.5 5.0 10.0 20.0 grams), brand name “Atakulche (TM)” (atakulche.com/en-US/).
That brand name was only an example. I checked one of the refineries listed, and that brand name was one of the brand names it used.
It sounds like what those crackpot “No Federal Reserve Dollars Here” use.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/29/137478762/the-tuesday-podcast-libertarian-summer-camp
Sorry. I missed it. What are talking about? Gold Bars or Plastic cards?
I gave you a link to show you one example for how to deliver and store small quantities of physical gold into a market in standardised units. The plastic card is just one of the methods, and it’s optional.
It can also be rebranded, or be equipped with additional info (certificates, serial number, magnet stripe, bar codes, chip, etc.). Plastic cards can also be used as a method to deliver physical gold through automated systems like specialised ATMs.
Exchange Traded Funds are more similar to buying shares in the stock market. They’re classified as “financial instruments” or “derivatives”. “Gold to the masses” has a little more “schwung” than “derivatives to the masses” = it’s easier to sell the idea.
There is now more than $75 billion invested in ETFs holding or tracking gold, and GLD is one of the most widely traded securities in the world.
How’s that for Schwung!
Re KaratBars, just found this out:
http://cafe4eck.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/oberstaatsanwalt-aus-munchen-ermittelt-gegen-mike-koschine-grenzuberschreitend-wegen-betruges-mit-edelmetall/
Karatbars apparently had some reps falsely claiming endorsements in Africa.
http://consumerwatchdogbw.blogspot.com/2014/01/why-would-you-buy-gold-and-why-would.html
I have been looking over Karatbars the last few days and read your review here, as I always consult Behind MLM as part of my due diligence on any MLM company. I see that your review is dated November 20, 2012. It appears that much about Karatbars has changed since then.
Their Website is now available in several languages, including English. It also appears that the membership ranks, recruitment commission schedule, and residual commission schedule have been significantly altered.
Karatbars now has a 12-week program, kind of like a fast start program. (Google “Karatbars 12-week program” to learn how it works.)
Would you kindly re-review Karatbars and post an updated review in this space? Thanks.
Karatbars International or KB Gold? I don’t recall ever formally reviewing Karatbars International (it is on my list though).
Karatbars International (www.karatbars.com), please.
In my experience any “program” with a “fast start” component is looking to get as much up front money as possible. Then merely keep the upstart noob investing as long a possible. IMHO just a way to infuse the “program” with quick funds.
I may seem jaded, but these outfits make me want to puke. I’ve been pitched on Amway/Quixtar, Zeek, Melaluca (sp?), Amway (again), Lyoness, and KB gold. Over and over and over and over same pitch same nonsense. You can get rich without much effort! Bullspit. Bullspit. Bullspit. It’s all Bullspit. Hell I’m tempted to call Bullspit on all and I mean all MLM “opportunities”. Now that I think of it, I’m sick of working for a living. All these scammers are making a killing by playing off the greed and lazy nature of the general population.
Hmmmm. Y’all join me! I’m starting my own darn MLM! Just go to (OZeditnotrequired- no MLM/BULLSHIT allowed 😉 dotcom. and sign up! In no time you can piss off all friends and family, lose your money, and best of all, fudge up your life! Plus I’ll have your contact info to sell to other scammers! Cheers.
ConsumerWatchdog has this to say about Karatbars
http://consumerwatchdogbw.blogspot.com/2014/01/some-more-pictures-from-karatbars.html
Yep, all opportunity, no gold.
Thanks. I’ve found out more about this company from reading the comments on this post then I have from googling around.
The general consensus being, if you want to invest in gold it’s better to do so via regular spot gold dealers, or in a gold eft. I personally am trading gold via my fore broker and with the price appreciating over the last few days, things are looking good.
Thanks for providing this platform to out these scam artists, and for everyone’s contribution.
Correct. If you PRIMARILY want to invest in physical gold, buying coins from a local or international dealer is the best choice (for most consumers). I have frequently followed discussions in a gold forum since 2010/2011, and coins from local or international dealers are the preferred choice for most people (in Norway).
ETF like funds are one of the choices if you only want to speculate in the price of Precious Metals, if you don’t want to own physical gold in the long term. Some of the physical gold investors (consumers) will use it as a secondary choice.
If you PRIMARILY want to participate in a recruitment driven opportunity, KB Gold was (or is) a choice. Having an income opportunity attached will be a red flag for most consumers and investors, but you will find a very limited market where people primarily are interested in opportunities.
Karat bars on Quebec media warning this weekend.
http://www.lautorite.qc.ca/en/press-releases-2014-corpo.html_2014_alert-karatbars.html
This review is ten years old, but the scam still exists. I have been watching the criminal activities of notorious liar and cheat Mike Koschine for many years.
In the former German forum mlm-infos.com the dubious activities of Mike Koschine have been often and heavily criticized since 2004. I am now starting a comprehensive update.
Oz wrote:
KB Kapital & Business GmbH in Munich was founded in April 2006 and was liquidated in August 2013. The managing director was Mike Koschine.
northdata.de/KB+Kapital+%26+Business+GmbH,+M%C3%BCnchen/HRB+161895
KB Edelmetall GmbH in Lucerne (Switzerland) was founded in July 2008. The company was insolvent since May 15, 2013 and was liquidated due to lack of assets on June 19, 2013. The managing director was Mike Koschine.
moneyhouse.ch/de/company/kb-edelmetall-gmbh-in-liquidation-4210344881
On April 30, 2013, Mike Koschine founded AURUM ADVANTAGE LTD with 500 euros of equity. On December 9, 2014 the company was dissolved.
share-your-photo.com/dad4004b63
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08509558
Three company bankruptcies are now already known. Where has the gold gone that Mike Koschine allegedly stored for his customers?
KB Edelmetall AG, founded on August 26, 2010, with its current registered office in Schaan (Liechtenstein), still exists. In this company Mike Koschine was a member of the Board of Directors until May 1, 2013. The current board member is Michael Mayer from Germany. Or Michael Martin?
moneyhouse.ch/de/company/kb-edelmetall-ag-18406307439/messages
Michael and Martin are typical first names in German-speaking countries. I suspect that one of these names is wrong. Mike Koschine is running this scam alone and does not need any confidants who could testify against him in a court case.
The entries in the commercial register are confusing. Liechtenstein is known for not always working or checking correctly. In the past, Liechtenstein was a well-known money laundering haven in Europe. OneCoin scammer Martin Mayer from Liechtenstein is a well-known example of this fact.
The current imprint on kb-edelmetall.li also names “Michael Martin”:
share-your-photo.com/8cf32df76a
The current imprint on goldshop.li also names “Michael Martin”.
share-your-photo.com/cf5c0f26cc
The current imprint on kb-edelmetall.de also names “Michael Martin”.
share-your-photo.com/e8c30eee92
No imprint contains a telephone number! For me, this is always a clear indication of fraudulent companies.
As usual with Mike Koschine, he has installed several websites with the same content.
Sequel follows.
Although Mike Koschine offers and sells only the smallest amounts of gold, large and huge gold bars are depicted in the videos.
On the websites there is this video from November 26, 2010.
share-your-photo.com/0be453beba
youtube.com/watch?v=gUm1DLc4YAU
The website trendgold.at in the title of the video does not exist! The other website missiongold.info mentioned on YouTube no longer exists, of course. The alleged gold trader Mike Koschine had no money for his own web space, because the website was hosted here for free: site4free.tk.
web.archive.org/web/20110107171300/http://www.missiongold.info/
We know that Mike Koschine and Harald Seiz know each other very well. Both operate the same “business model”: selling the smallest gold bars as a substitute for money suffering from inflation. The buyers overlook the fact that these mini-bars are not accepted anywhere as a means of payment. Even banks don’t buy them.
But Mike Koschine claims:
Video from October 2011 with Mike Koschine, Managing Director KB Edelmetalle:
share-your-photo.com/a68e8f1e9f
youtube.com/watch?v=k4QWB6EDxMY
Only five likes with 1,049 views? A disgraceful result for Mike Koschine. That’s how it is when a scammer promises heaven on earth if you buy his “gold bars” of 1 gram, 0.5 gram or 0.01 gram.
Mike Koschine also has his own channel on YouTube. KB Precious Metal TV with 9 subscribers and a video from July 2016:
share-your-photo.com/0d4e98c4ec
youtube.com/watch?v=xF9IB3eZquU
Why does Mike Koschine mention a gmail address under the video? Honest businessmen use one that is mentioned on the website(s). This video also has only seven likes with 1,266 views.
james pingera commented:
5mnz7fg links to this video from August 2010:
youtube.com/watch?v=MhgzkO6pxu0
The video is a recording of a program of the ZDF (Second German television program). See comments #9 and 10.
Sequel follows.
This screenshot from January 22, 2021 names Mike Koschine as Managing Director and Ruggel in Liechtenstein as the company headquarters.
share-your-photo.com/7e1017472c
web.archive.org/web/20210122160942/http://goldshop.li/impressum/
Mike Koschine writes Ruggel, but correctly it should be Ruggell. Google knows 59 companies or persons in Industriestraße 56. A gold dealer or known persons are not among them.
After that, “Michael Martin” was named Managing Director and
became the company’s new headquarters.
share-your-photo.com/cf5c0f26cc
web.archive.org/web/20210414172853/https://goldshop.li/impressum/
My suspicion that “Michael Martin” does not exist has been confirmed. The guy’s full name is Michael Martin Hilti and actually lives in Schaan.
moneyhouse.ch/de/list/person/hilti-michael-martin
He is a successful entrepreneur and about 77 years old. Would this man do “business” together with a scammer like Mike Koschine? Because this is not yet finalized, I will not upload a photo.
Mike Koschine had several branches in Hungary with this website:
arany9999.eu
A screenshot from the WebArchive:
share-your-photo.com/c078d6d79d
web.archive.org/web/20130424040641/http://arany9999.eu/
On his web pages he links to this video from aramy9999.eu:
share-your-photo.com/872db6276f
The video from July 2011 on YouTube:
share-your-photo.com/dc38163960
youtube.com/watch?v=XjMroFBsAE4
The gold sellers from Hungary on Facebook:
facebook.com/arany9999
Here is linked to karatbars.com – the fraud portal of Harald Seiz:
share-your-photo.com/7cd5f30348
In my view, this is further proof that Mike Koschine and Harald Seiz also cheated together at times.
Bad news from Liechtenstein. The phone number of the scammers from Schaan remains secret!
“Michael Martin” has reacted to my email like this:
“Please tell me your phone number so we can contact you.”
share-your-photo.com/7adb196aee
Dennis Nowak, who is currently cheating with his own company ELIXOO, was a business partner of Mike Koschine in the past.
News from October 10, 2010
share-your-photo.com/113e67d11b
openpr.de/news/476591/Dennis-Nowak-verlaesst-KB-Gold.html
Addition to comment #43.
The Hungarian website arany9999.eu no longer exists, but the domain was re-registered on April 22, 2021. (Arany is the Hungarian word for gold.)
share-your-photo.com/79d606aa45
whois.eurid.eu/de/search/?domain=arany9999.eu
I discovered a photo series entitled “Csapatunk” (Our team) in the WebArchive on arany9999.eu. One photo in this series clearly shows the well-known fraudster Harald Seiz:
share-your-photo.com/b367955379
web.archive.org/web/20150209175322/http://arany9999.eu/galleries/show/4/csapatunk
The Facebook account of the Hungarian fraudsters – Investment Arany 9999.eu – with 316 followers has not been updated since October 13, 2014.
share-your-photo.com/e251e75ddc
facebook.com/arany9999
The website arany9999.eu listed the following cities in Hungary with branches: Győr – Budapest – Sopron and Mosonmagyaróvár.