World Ventures Review: Travel niche recruiting scam
World Ventures is a MLM company founded back in 2005 within the travel industry niche. Founded by Wayne Nugent and Mike Azcue, World Ventures is located in Plano, TX (Dallas) and is ‘privately owned and operated and debt-free‘.
As of the last few years the travel niche within the MLM industry seems to have become somewhat saturated with new startups. World Ventures is particularly notable in this respect as the company has now been around for six years, long before the trend towards travel companies occurred.
For this reason a review of Travel Ventures is particularly interesting. A review of World Ventures is going, provides us with a snapshot into the potential future of some of the newer travel niche MLM startups of late.
So, did being one of the first companies to combine travel and MLM pay off for World Ventures?
Let’s find out.
World Ventures’ Products
World Ventures offers three ‘products’ for sale, all of which appear to be memberships;
A World Ventures DreamTrips membership entitles a member to make us of World Venture’s bulk buying capacity.
As a company, World Ventures purchases vacation trips in bulk at a discount and then makes them available to their members.
World Venture’s claim that ‘members typically save the price of their membership within their first two trips‘.
Membership to DreamTrips is a once off payment of $199.99 and then a $49.99 monthly fee recurring.
Luxury DreamTrips membership, in contrast to the regular DreamTrips membership, is aimed at ‘the discerning traveler‘.
Operating in a similar fashion to a regular DreamTrips membership, the Luxury DreamTrips membership offers the member access to ‘high-end, lavish getaways offered to you at incredible discounts‘.
Unlike the regular DreamTrips membership however, the luxury offerings are solely aimed at small groups. Therefore if you want to travel on a Luxury DreamTrips package, you need to fulfill the group requirement (the number varies depending on the trip), before you can travel.
To help with this, a Luxury DreamTrips membership covers you, your spouse, a friend and any dependent children you have.
As I’m reading it, there are no single travel opportunities available with a Luxury DreamTrips membership.
The cost of joining the Luxury DreamTrips membership program is a once off payment of $999.99 and then a monthly fee of $99.99.
As a Leisure Travel Consultant (LTC), purchasers are provided with a personalised travel website. Through this website LTC members can retail travel trips via third party travel company ‘Roxia’ and earn a commission.
Other services provided to LTC members include 24 hour roadside assistance, a tax advice hotline and the 24/7 Rovia concierge service.
Training opportunities are also provided (via Rovia) to allow the LTC consultant to earn greater commissions on the travel packages sold via their provided travel portal website.
None of these services are provided by World Ventures themselves, it’s all outsourced to third party travel vendor Rovia.
An LTC membership will cost you a one time payment of $199.95 and then $24.99 a month.
Note that an LTC membership does not provide you with access to either DreamTrips or Luxury DreamTrips vacations, membership for access to these trips needs to be purchased separately.
The relationship between Rovia and World Ventures
Like nearly all travel niche MLM companies, World Ventures themselves do not directly provide the travel services they make available to their members.
Instead, the travel side of World Ventures is handled by a third party company, Rovia.
Rovia is a reportedly twenty five year old company who, as far as I can see don’t have any other affiliation with World Ventures beyond providing World Ventures and its members with access to their travel portal backend.
Note that this is an exclusive relationship though. You can’t purchase the DreamTrips memberships or an LTC package from Rovia directly, you need to go through World Ventures.
Given that World Ventures thus have a 100% marketshare in Rovia’s membership products, perhaps there is then a relationship at a management level between the two companies.
Footnote: I was unable to find any but from a business position the relationship makes sense. Otherwise why would a third party with no vested interest in World Ventures opt to limit their market share to one company exclusively?
The World Ventures Compensation Plan
World Ventures offers its members access to a binary compensation plan which, as far I can see is quite solid.
World Ventures members have access to direct commissions, residual income and various bonuses and travel and training incentives as their success with World Ventures grows.
I’ve previously undertaken a full indepth review of the World Ventures compensation plan, so I won’t go into too much more detail here.
I will however reiterate the bulk of my compensation plan conclusion which was that a lot of the residual commissions and bonus pool access is tied into how well a World Ventures member can ‘sell’ DreamTrips memberships or the LTC package to other people and keep them on autoship.
To be a ‘Qualified Representative’ you need to actively sell at least one of World Ventures products (memberships) a month. Being a one time purchase this means you’re out there trying to recruit sell new prospects to the membership programs.
Don’t do this and you’ll remain at the ‘Active Representative’ level in the compensation plan which simply provides you with direct commissions. A paltry once off commission of $20 for a DreamTrips membership or LTC Package sale or $150 for a Luxury DreamTrips sale.
Hardly income replacing and nowhere near high enough to solely generate a full time income off of.
The World Ventures Income Disclosure
One thing a lot of companies don’t provide the general public with is an income disclosure. Cutting through hype and marketing spiel, an income disclosure provides a quick snapshot of how a particular business is faring or has fared over a period of time.
World Ventures thankfully do provide an income disclosure spanning the fiscal years 2006 to 2009.
So how did they fare?
The single most important fact to take away from World Ventures’ income disclosure is the fact that 73.7% of World Ventures’ Representatives did not earn a commission during their time in the business.
Out of the 26.3% of representatives that did earn a commission, 26.28% failed to progress past the rank of ‘Qualified Representative’ and took home an average annual commission of just $193 and $684 (Active and Qualified Representatives respectively).
How does earning up to $684 a year in commissions sound to you? Well, if you join World Ventures you’ve got a 99.98% chance of achieving your goal.
The complete income disclosure statement is available directly from World Ventures.
Conclusion
For me, the income disclosure statement for World Ventures pretty much says it all. The fact that World Ventures retail ‘memberships’ and not actual products via Rovia is a reflection of this.
Whilst it’s true that World Ventures don’t directly financially compensation you for bringing others to the business itself, you still have to bring others to the Rovia business to get anywhere in the compensation plan. And this, despite being a third party recruitment is still recruitment dependent MLM.
If we accept that, then it’s easy to dissect the compensation plan as being reliant on World Ventures’ members to have to go out and recruit new prospects to Rovia’s own membership programs.
Sure they might not join or be interested in World Ventures’ attached business opportunity, but you are still recruiting them into something (Rovia).
A failure to recruit people is what I’d put down the atrocious 99.98% failure rate (those earning less than $700 annually) in World Ventures.
Although direct commissions on memberships are available ($20 and $150), they are hardly enough to sustain an income off of and provide and real financial security. Moreso I suspect they are included to satisfy legal requirements rather than to offer any real incentive to World Ventures’ Representatives.
The second major problem I see with World Ventures is that, whilst discounts are claimed to be made available via the travel packages offered by Rovia, one would need to carefully weigh up whether the monthly fees payable justify the savings made on the initial discounts offered.
A year of DreamTrips membership (including initial purchase price) is $749.88, a Luxury DreamTrips membership is $2099.88 and an LTC package is 224.94.
There’s no point saving hundreds of dollars in travel bookings if you’re just going to lose it in membership fees. This is obviously going to vary from representative to representative based on their individual travel service needs, but I believe is the strongest factor that needs to be taken into a World Ventures membership consideration.
These two points for me are the bottom line when it comes to weighing up the World Ventures MLM business opportunity and can be summarised in two short questions;
- Do I have what it takes to beat a 99.98% failure rate?
- Will I save more in travel costs than you’ll pay World Ventures and Rovia in monthly membership fees?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:14 pm Phil(Quote)
The way I see it, as long as you get your 4 friends or whoever to sign up with you…than who cares if you can turn it into the business or not. You pay nothing ever again, and you get to enjoy cheap vacations with your friends for the rest of your life.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:06 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Phil
So long as they get their four friends, who then need to go get their four friends, who need to go get four friends…
Honestly, you don’t see the problem here?
November 18th, 2011 at 4:53 pm K. Chang(Quote)
That’s the beauty of pyramid schemes and shady matrices… You don’t lose… It’s all your downlines that lose. As long as you have THAT mentality, i.e. “f*** everybody else, I’m just out for myself.” then sure, go join.
May 2nd, 2012 at 6:22 am B.Scott(Quote)
This article is now over a year old (I’m reading it on May 1, 2012) and at least for how things are with World Ventures right now, it is not accurate.
The structure has changed, the products have changed, and contrary to what K. Chang says in the comments, it is not a pyramid scheme or shady anything.
The downline doesn’t lose as they offer an amazing product for an amazing price. Refering 4 friends is easy because the product and company are that good. The company offers phenomenal support and work is done as a team effort.
There really is nothing to lose by joining World Ventures and everything to gain.
May 2nd, 2012 at 7:48 am K. Chang(Quote)
@B. Scott — unfortunately, that’s what all of the “victims” say before the realize it’s a scam. Care to try again? Heard it all before from TVI Express folks.
What makes World Ventures DIFFERENT from the scam, such as TVI Express? Apart for the superficial stuff, like NOT based in India?
May 2nd, 2012 at 8:09 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
For reference I paid a visit to the website…
The products look the same (has LTC been renamed ‘DreamTrips Life’?)
At the end of the day World Venutures’ products are still just membership which itself is not a viable product. When you sell membership to other services and reward 100% of your commissions on the sale and renewal of said membership, you’ve got yourself a pyramid scheme.
You claimed everything has changed yet here are your own words:
Products? What products… still sounds like a recruitment game to me.
May 2nd, 2012 at 8:19 am K. Chang(Quote)
Reading Rovia’s LTC program makes it clear that it is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to WorldVentures. Anybody can join LTC (and their higher level, such as BTA or TRS, with more training and more responsibilities)
This is looking more and more like TVI Express claiming “tie-up” with Travelocity when they’re merely an affiliate.
May 5th, 2012 at 6:25 am hi(Quote)
The product is trvel, therefore it can’t be a pyramid scheme.
May 5th, 2012 at 7:21 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
World Ventures themselves don’t handle travel, their product is membership to access third party travel services (not run by the company).
Furthermore no commissions are earnt via World Ventures based on use of the travel services.
In short, the commissions offered by World Ventures have nothin to do with travel and are just paid out on membership fees.
Pyramid scheme.
July 26th, 2012 at 1:28 pm my2cents(Quote)
Hmmm…all I can say is I am laughing your “pyramid scheme” all the way to the bank. Been in for two years. Took three trips last year that were AMAZING for ridiculously good prices and turned $365 into over 10x that in one year.
While that is not income replacing…that is only the first year (this year I have already made considerably more). I have personally had 6 friends who saw this the way I did. Of those 6 … all 6 are still in WV and have thanked me more than once for “changing their life!” (each one has been in WV for almost 2 years as well).
In my opinion, the numbers reflected in the income disclosure are what they are because a lot of people are simply lazy. Anyone who thinks they will turn $365 into millions by sitting on their butts and eating bon bons is deluding themselves.
Anything worth having is worth working for. I work “maybe” 10 hours a month at this point. Seeing my current success (yes…I suppose I am in that .02% you referred to – which is really not an accurate number if you actually read the income disclosure statement…that % was based on who hits the HIGHEST level) with the smallish effort I have put into this business I can’t wait to see what happens next!
Oh…and btw…more inaccuracies in that you don’t have to bring in a new person every month. I have been in two years, brought in 6 people and have paid only $365 one time and one monthly fee of $65 because I was not ready to start yet when I started and content to pay that fee for the month instead of doing something.
That is ALL I have paid in to the company in two years. They have paid me WAY more than I paid them…
If getting this big of an ROI is a pyramid scheme then call me a sucker who likes to have $ deposited into my bank account each week/month. Cause that is what this has been for me!
Perhaps rather than writing a review without actually trying something, you should consider trying it! Invest $365 into writing your review…become a rep and see what article you write a year from now! Game on?
July 26th, 2012 at 2:34 pm Oz(Quote)
@my2cents
How much you make is irrelevant when assessing whether or not World Ventures is a membership driven pyramid scheme or not.
Whether you spend 10 hours or 100 hours a month recruiting members, it’s again irrelevant when assessing whether or not World Ventures is a membership driven pyramid scheme.
This was taken directly from the compensation plan and is what is presented to prospective members. If World Ventures have removed this qualification clause from their business model, they should approprietly also remove it from their compensation plan material.
Or it could just be the backend operations don’t match what’s presented on the front end of things. This is often the case with pyramid schemes (it’s all about the $$$ coming in from membership fees, whether the other mechanicals work or not is irrelevant).
ROI has nothing to do with it, a business model solely determines whether or not a MLM company is a pyramid scheme or not.
World Ventures business model relies on the constant recruitment of new members in order for commissions to be paid out. Infact you are unable to earn a commision unless either a membership fee is paid and/or a new member is recruited.
Trying something is irrelevant when assessing whether or not it is a pyramid scheme. Analysis of the business model alone determines this.
If World Ventures still pay out 100% commissions from membership fees with no other marketable product, 1 year or 100 years from now the review and conclusion will remain the same: World Ventures is a pyramid scheme.
October 11th, 2012 at 6:51 pm jonjo(Quote)
@my2cent –
you got schooled by oz
November 9th, 2012 at 8:08 pm travellingman(Quote)
A pyramid scam is an operation where people are paid for recruiting others with no product in mind. The folks at worldventures are paid for selling a travel membership.
There’s a legitimate product its talked about on the oprah show and by traveler/ author jack canifield. Donald trump and Robert Kiyasaki are huge propriortors of network marketing. Ever heard of rich dad poor dad oz?
November 9th, 2012 at 8:11 pm Oz(Quote)
Yes, and?
November 15th, 2012 at 9:09 am John walsh(Quote)
So what happens when this market becomes fully saturated…I guess they will just use a new product lol.
November 21st, 2012 at 1:52 am Tatiana(Quote)
The story start like that: one old friend call me and he say,hello how are you ………………….. and later he say i have a great dell for you and we meet he show me some videos and some photos.
i sing in but on the end he say:: i need some credit or debit card to pay for you business pack or something like that and i say to my boy friend to give me hem visa card than i ask my old friend Chris, will don’t have any problem whit the card yeee and he say don’t worry everything will ok.
And what happen one mount later, my boyfriend comeback from work and start to ask me way World Ventures take a around 50 euro from my card and i was very surprise way and how, i was start to think way is must by something wrong and i was start to search and i find out that some payment every mount and that make me angry every mount 50 euro i tray to cancel my account or deleted but i don’t find from ware.
was pass one mount more and was happen the same World Ventures take again around 50 euro from my boy friend card that way i want to delete my account and also i don’t have a time to search a or to offer people to sing in so place delete my account.
My email is (Ozedit: email removed) and my ID# (Ozedit: ID removed) i hope so someone will do something about that, and if no one do something i will still search on all web forums and places wear World Ventures post and i will live the some comments !!!!!!!!
November 21st, 2012 at 10:59 am Oz(Quote)
The only people who can do something are World Ventures themselves, get in contact with them.
November 21st, 2012 at 11:59 am littleroundman(Quote)
The problem is not only the market becoming saturated with “product” but, the market being saturated with people who have been approached with the “opportunity” to participate in an “opportunity”
Test it for yourself.
Tell people you would like to show them an “opportunity” and see how many of them come back with It’s not Amway, is it ??
November 24th, 2012 at 9:56 am yw(Quote)
So is this worldventure membership thingy worth to join? It just getting started in my country (its hot news) and i was wondering should i ‘invest’?
November 24th, 2012 at 9:57 am Oz(Quote)
As per the World Ventures compensation plan, it’s an unsustainable pyramid scheme.
Should you join….? You tell us.
November 27th, 2012 at 7:24 am Eddie(Quote)
So glad I got my girlfriend out of this scam!
Just go out an look at all of the people trying to warn you about their scam.
Run Run Run
The two owners are tax cheats
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:00 pm Vince(Quote)
@oz…”A pyramid scam is an operation where people are paid for recruiting others.
The folks at worldventures are paid for selling a travel membership.”
Have you ever heard of any other business that are membership sustained? How about any Gym in america. Pretty sure they make the majority of their money on Memberships. Not to mention they have contracts.
Or maybe you have heard of a store called COSTCO
In 2005, Costco had total revenues of close to $53 billion and net profits of $1.063 billion – thus achieving a 2% profit margin. Here’s what is interesting, revenues from Costco’s membership fees (which are pure profit) were $1.073 billion. Thus, membership revenues entirely make up Costco’s profits.
So how is a Membership driven system not sustainable? How is WV any different in providing memberships to save people money?
Also Oz, a “pyramid scheme” is the exchange of money between two people, where there is no product or service. And they are illegal.
WV has a product… Its called Dreamtrips, and a service called Rovia, and if you don’t think it’s legit, call Carnival Cruise Lines and ask them if they will give you a discount if you book 10,000 or 20,000 cabins from them this year and see if they will give you discount for buying bulk, and then do some research and see how many cabins World Ventures/Rovia bought from them this year.
I don’t know, maybe i’m just naive. Maybe I missed something in the fine print, but I’ve been in for 4 months, I don’t pay my fees anymore (haven’t since the initial Membership Fee, because I was able to show this horrible scam to a few friends who have been thanking me ever since. How annoying)…
Anyways, WV has been a game changer for me, and I’ve made more than it cost to join, worked hard enough to get my monthly membership fees waived (which took about 6hours of total work…maybe) And booked our honeymoon for May 2013, so I’ll let you know how it was, but I already know it saved us over $1900. So if it’s not for you, don’t join, that simple.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:18 pm Oz(Quote)
Neither of those business are MLM, and neither pay out cash commissions on acquisition of new members. They are obviously not MLM income opportunities.
Oh dear…
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Membership is not a product, neither is Rovia, it’s a third party service offered by a third party company that has nothing to do with World Ventures.
World Ventures itself only offers membership, which makes it a pyramid scheme.
Well, points for being honest.
December 4th, 2012 at 4:24 am Vince(Quote)
@oz… None of your responses make any since. MLM or not, business is business. oh, and I’ve worked for gyms before selling memberships, that was my job. Not to train them, not to sell them supplements, not to teach them how to use the equipment. Just to sell them a membership.
If People didn’t sign up, I didn’t make anything. People fail because they don’t work hard enough at something. Plain and Simple.
Oh, and World Ventures has never paid me in Cash. You get a check. Wow, what a shady company…
Bottom line is this. I’ve made more than it cost to join, saved more than it cost to join, don’t pay a membership fee and I am still happily learning and earning more all the time.
Have I quit my day job yet, nope… but a couple hours here and there, I make a couple hundred extra a month, I travel cheap, and earn $$ when I book my own travel, and at this point it doesn’t cost me anything.
Think what you want, but membership, or business aspect… WV is Still a great deal.
December 4th, 2012 at 7:22 am Oz(Quote)
Trouble is the travel side of World Ventures is completely detached from the compensation plan.
In MLM, this is called a pyramid scheme.
Seriously…? /facepalm.
If you’re only selling memberships in MLM, you’re in a pyramid scheme.
December 5th, 2012 at 2:49 am Gunner(Quote)
Seriously? Pyramid schemes can be in any type of company. There is no difference between WorldVentures and SAM`S Club except for that SAM`S sells items that can be thrown away or broken whereas WorldVentures sells family, fun, fulfillment, and financial freedom.
If that’s not enough, WV is also a personal development company in disguise that builds leaders out of people.
Anyways. Does SAM`S make profit off of its products? Barely at all. They get their money from the memberships. Does that make Sam’s a pyramid scheme? No. Then why would WV be one? It isn’t. The ONLY way you can possibly fail at MLM (specifically WorldVentures) is by quitting. It’s a game of how badly do you want freedom in every sense of the word.
The people that call WorldVentures a scam are the quitters, employees of the world, and the people that can’t stand that there’s a 19 year old kid from Alabama making more money than them just for traveling and showing people how to get what he has.
To build a rock star team, you show people (preferably people you wouldn’t mind traveling with) the opportunity. Some will see and understand the great opportunity and potential while some will not. Some will… Some won’t… So what… NEXT.
You get your four so you no longer have financial obligations to the company. (Imagine if AT&T did that. You, oz, would probably call them a scam.) While you are getting your four, you spend every free second you have helping each of your new recruits get their four and training them to do the same as you.
Wash, rinse, repeat. Your responsibility as their sponsor is to try to get them to make more money than you. You take care of your troops, they will take care of you. Or at least that’s my method.
Incomes aren’t replaced without a lot of work, especially six figure incomes. It’s the hardest work you will ever partake in, but it pays off when you’ve put in your effort and you get those keys to that brand new BMW.
Or that extra monthly $1000 check to go towards any vehicle imaginable (car, truck, boat, yacht, plane, and etc.). Or that extra monthly $3000 check to go towards any house you want. Which is just icing on the cake compared to the minimum $50,000 a month when you hit IMD rank.
I mean really, how could any of this be a scam? This company has and will continue to be a blessing for many. But hey, oz, WorldVentures isn’t for everyone. I mean, I’m only 19… I need someone to mow my yard, cook my food, file my taxes, and monitor my house while I travel the world.
December 5th, 2012 at 10:37 am Oz(Quote)
Nope. There’s got to be a multiple levels of payment where existing members are compensated on the recruitment of new members.
Look I know you’re 19 and everything and I’m not going to pull the age card, but you really need to go do some research and what constitutes an MLM company.
Between Sam’s Club and World Ventures, one is a MLM company that pays out on the recruitment of new members down multiple levels, the other isn’t.
people who have analysed the business model. Making up childish names for these people doesn’t change the model itself.
Note how this has nothing to do with the sale of any product. It’s just membership, recruit, recruit, recruit.
Straight outta Egypt.
Did you do math in school?
December 5th, 2012 at 10:54 am K. Chang(Quote)
Then you have no idea what the LEGAL definition of a pyramid scheme is, do you? Sam’s Club is a Buying Club, not MLM or a pyramid scheme.
That’s not what it was advertised as. If you got some side benefit from it, great, but stick to what it was SUPPOSED to do, please.
Your assertion is ridiculous. Cost to join Sam’s club is $40 PER YEAR. With 50 million members (as of 2008), that’s only 2 billion in revenue. According to Walmart’s balance sheet, Sam’s Club had sales revenue of 46.9 BILLION (as of 2009).
So you have to resort of ad hominem attacks. Guess you ran out of LOGICAL and FACTUAL arguments.
December 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm littleroundman(Quote)
WOW !!!
What insight.
So, of the 7 BILLION plus people on the planet, the “ONLY” people who recognize World Ventures as a fraud are “quitters and employees”
And, not only that, “GUNNER” knows how much money all 7 BILLION people earn and the fact a “19 year old” SAYS he earns more than them annoys them.
So, not even room in there for one or two people who say World Ventures is a fraud for “other” reasons ??
All I can say is, the World Ventures training must be extensive and in depth to allow it’s people to make such deadly accurate observations.
Only “quitters and employees”, Eh ???
December 5th, 2012 at 6:00 pm K. Chang(Quote)
@LRM — I think Gunner read too much Robert “Rich Dad” Kiyosaki. Sounds like that “quadrant” thinking, too much E, not enough B or something like that. Didn’t Kiyosaki declare bankruptcy a month or two ago?
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/rich_dad_bankrupt_dad_UNJgqVDYCEthW1TEAYYwXN
December 5th, 2012 at 7:50 pm littleroundman(Quote)
One of his companies did, not him personally.
He did it after he was sued by one of his early backers, lost the case and was hit with a $24million dollar judgement.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/334777
December 5th, 2012 at 9:35 pm M_Norway(Quote)
The difference is that you recruited CUSTOMERS to the gym, not new RECRUITERS to do the same work as yourself. A pyramid scheme will pay you for recruiting new recruiters, and all recruiters will have to pay for the right to recruit other recruiters (using a slightly simplified description).
People fail because of many different reasons. Working hard enough may be one of them, but working hard can also be the reason for failure. Many people fail because they’re working too hard on something, e.g. spending too much efforts on concepts that are deemed to fail.
December 8th, 2012 at 12:54 am Elizabeth(Quote)
My question is Where did you get your informayion that there was a monthly fee for membership. I just recently joined and only had a one time payment. That I KNOW OF!?
December 8th, 2012 at 2:47 am Oz(Quote)
I think the bigger question is where did you get this from?
The review certainly doesn’t mention monthly membership fees…
December 8th, 2012 at 3:27 am K. Chang(Quote)
Could it be a cut-and-paste random rebuttal?
December 13th, 2012 at 1:16 pm jennjenn(Quote)
I joined WV back in 2009 and I definately lost money, however there is a very precise plan that if you follow it, you will make money. Most people have a hard time following directions, including myself.
If I were to dedicate myself as trained I would have done amazing. I cannot say enough good things about the leadership and training. BC of my WV training, my outside sales career has been highly successful.
Si even if you arent down for an mlm.. the training, especially the View and Journey.. you absolutely cant beat!
December 20th, 2012 at 5:08 am Ku fan(Quote)
In world ventures the cost is included so you can take advantage of the club discounts. So in order to recruit other people you have to be apart of it.
Who cares about the past of Wayne and Mike. Your judging men off of their pasts. SAMs is similar in the fact that both by their products in bulk. It’s obvious that you haven’t done enough research.
Yes, everything isn’t going to go as smoothly as the video shows. You should understand that in pyramid schemes they don’t offer to buy you a BMW or pay for your house.
You’ve said it yourself MLM Is a legal business tactic. Of course you can’t get rich fast but you can easily get rid of the monthly payments. It’s more about saving money on trips than the money.
December 20th, 2012 at 8:08 am Oz(Quote)
The point being, you have to recruit to earn.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:37 pm Mike T.(Quote)
People just do not join WV. Those that they do, quit in a period of less than 3 months when they already paid additional 150 in membership fees. Even if you recruit 4 persons, after they quit, you will have to pay the membership once a month.
If you only recruit 4 and they manage to recruit 100′s, if one of them quits, you will have to pay monthly fees. To be allowed any commission you should recruit at least one member each recurring month, despite of the numbers in your downline.
As far as the product is concern, I think it is great to have 3 day trips with only $100. But, in order to go to those locations (at least fron my country) you need to pay the air fares which are very expensive.
My third and last comment is the recruit one train one rule of WV. It goes like this: you recruit 1 member each month and train them to recruit 1 member each month.
Month 1 = 1 downline
Month 2 = 2 downline
Month 3 = 4 Downline
month 4 = 8 downline
Month 5 = 16 downline
Month 6 = 32 downline
Month 7 = 64 downline
Month 8 = 128 downline
Month 9 = 256 downline
Month 10 = 512 downline
Month 11 = 1024 downline
Month 12 = 2048 downline
Wow thats great. That means too much money. Now let us continue with this equation:
Month 13 = 4096 Downline
Month 14 = 8192
Month 15 = 16384
month 16 = 32768
Month 17 = 65536
Month 18 = 131072
Month 19 = 262144
Month 20 = 524288
Month 21 = 1048576
Month 22 = 2097152
Month 23 = 4194304
Month 24 = 8388608
By the end of the 3rd year you need to start recruiting aliens. If You take into account the 99.98% failure factor, you will probubly have a decent downline after you’ve lost all of your friends.
January 3rd, 2013 at 3:19 pm Dan(Quote)
Ok so my understanding from what Oz says is that it’s a pyramid scheme just because you get paid off of recruiting new members.
Well I took a look into the company and yes it is pretty close to what you say but it isn’t exactly that.
In World Ventures you get paid off of just selling memberships not recruiting members. If you just sold memberships you get paid not 100% of the purchase of the memberships like Oz made it seem but you get paid a commission override on the initial payment and a commission override on their monthly payments.
Not only that but as you make sales the company also gives you free money to travel which allowed me to take 11 free vacations last year not including all the other bonuses they provide.
Although the gym is not a MLM it sort of works the same way because when you sell a gym membership you get a commission override and get paid for, so if they gave you (the buyer of the membership) the option to sell and make money off of selling memberships too then we will be in the same situation as World Ventures.
Now you can go out and just sell memberships and make your money like that but it can take forever in order for you to make any real money like that because you have a limited network and know only so much people.
So what they allow you to do is to also allow the members who purchased the membership to become a representative themselves. You also have the option of becoming a representative without purchasing the product.
And when someone decides to become a representative without purchasing the product no one gets paid anything at all for the person just becoming a representative hence the “The point being, you have to recruit to earn” is totally not true.
Now because you tipped the domino and found a new person who wanted to become a representative you also get a commission override on the sales they make so not only do they benefit from what they do you do too. And that also goes for all the representatives they found as well slowly building your network and over time when it gets big enough you will obviously be making a lot of money
I also wanted to point out the fact that throughout all the comment responses I’ve seen it seems to be a lot more opinions going around than facts.
Yes it is true what Oz says that any MLM company who solely pays on recruiting new members is a pyramid scheme. But world ventures does not pay on recruiting new members at all but solely on memberships sold and the monthly fees paid, they just give you the opportunity to leverage your time with someone else who wants to be a representative and get paid on what you both do and also give them the opportunity to do the same just like Amway and many other large MLM companies,
January 3rd, 2013 at 3:23 pm Oz(Quote)
Seriously…?
You’re trying to make some absurd distinction between “selling memberships” and “recruitment”?
Stop wasting my time.
“The gym” isn’t MLM, so don’t waste our time bringing it up.
Getting paid to sell memberships = recruitment.
It’s really that simple.
“Amway and many other large MLM companies” do not pay you to recruit new members into the scheme, paying you commissions solely on the continuation of payment of said membership fees.
Absolute fail on every account.
January 3rd, 2013 at 3:45 pm Dan(Quote)
Ok so from what i see on your last post Oz you have said absolutly nothing because first of all selling memberships is not recruiting and any idiot can obviously tell the difference.
Because you can sell 100 memberships and get paid, or you can recruit 100 representatives and get nothing. so the reason im trying to make an absurd distinction between “selling memberships” and “recruitment” is because there is a huge difference.
so lets call that one a fail on your part.
now i have done amway and they do pay you for recruitning new representatives so is amway a scheme ?? because from my understanding they are one of the biggest legal MLM companies out there.
So that is another fail on your part.
All your saying is fail, fail, fail, to everthing but you are still saying nothing. so please dont respond until you actually have something to say.
but i have one question are you or have you ever been a part of world ventures ?
January 3rd, 2013 at 3:50 pm Oz(Quote)
…I really don’t know what to say to this. I think we’ve hit a new low of MLM marketing stupidity on BehindMLM.
Look, as per the World Ventures compensation plan you recruit new members you get paid. I don’t know what dictionary you’re using or what bullshit sales pitch you were given but that’s the way the comp plan works.
No, they don’t. And if you’re going to continue to make such claims back it up with the relevant quote from their compensation plan that states so.
Note this review isn’t about Amway so any continued further discussion of Amway without the explicit example cited from their compensation plan that defines a commission paid out solely upon the recruitment of new members will be marked as spam.
So too will any further nonsensical claims that selling memberships is not recruitment.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:15 pm Dan(Quote)
First of all you completely ignored my question. so it seems like your only looking at what i write just to talk negative about it and not ti give me an actual response.
You are being extremely ignorant, as i said the memebership and the representative business systems are two completely different things. now if you can post a link of the compensation plan you seem to know so well, i might add some credibility to everything you have been saying.
In amway you get paid on PV and BV, PV being personal volume which is how much products you have sold or consumed yourself, and BV being how much your downline has sold or consumed themselves. when signing up a new representative you are awarded 150 BV therefore being paid for recruiting a new member.
now you are right this isnt about amway but the facts remain the you get some sort of payment for recruiting new members into the “scheme”
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:23 pm K. Chang(Quote)
I’m afraid the fail is on your part, as you’ve yet to establish what *you* perceive as the difference between “selling a membership” vs. “recruitment”.
If you are claiming that the matter of getting paid is the difference, getting paid is the REWARD for doing the action, not the action itself.
It’s pretty much “you say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to”, unless you can actually explain it.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:27 pm Oz(Quote)
As per the World Ventures compensation plan, affiliates earn commissions when they sell membership subscriptions the company claims are “products”.
These “products” are infact membership schemes offered via third parties, with World Ventures paying out commissions upon the continued payment of said membership fees (and skimming a bit off the top for themselves).
World Ventures itself has no products other than membership subscriptions – which in MLM are not viable products.
No doubt this BV is paid out on the purchase of product (sales commissions) by the new affiliate, and not merely the act of joining Amway.
Amway market tangible products, World Ventures market membership schemes with affiliates required to continually recruit new members into the scheme to generate commissions. Bid difference.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:34 pm Dan(Quote)
To sell a membership is to get someone to buy the product am i right ?
When someone buys the dreamtripslife membership all they get access to is the discounts on vactions, time shares, coupons to thousands of stores and and online portal where they can shop through where they can get free travel money for shopping at stores they already shop in.
they are not allowed to sell the membership or to reffer anyone they are just allowed to use the membership for its benefits simply put they are only a member of the trave club.
To recruit a representative is basically to find someone who also wants to sell the membership. when you become a representative you do not have access to any of the benefits of becoming a member you can only get paid for the memeberships you sold, that is why i said that they are two completely different things.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:37 pm Oz(Quote)
Membership itself is not a viable product in MLM, so no.
If you are paying out commissions solely on the recruitment of new members (membership fees), you’re running a pyramid scheme. New members have to recruit in order to generate commissions – that’s the problem.
What they get access to is irrelevant. It is the sale of membership (recruitment) that generates the commission through World Ventures.
Still recruitment. And if you want to earn anything you have to recruit.
As a final note, all these memberships are marketed internally via World Ventures as “products”. They are not marketed as third-party membership subscriptions but rather membership levels within the World Ventures company itself.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:55 pm Dan(Quote)
According to the federal trade comission, a MLM that solely pays on the recruitment of new distributors/representatives is a scheme, you do not get paid on the recruitment of representatives.
the is a fine line between being the person selling the product and the person consuming the product. although the product is not tangible just how a bjs, costco, or sams club membership is not tangible, it does not make the product any less legal just because the company itself is simply a MLM.
at a core they are all the same intagible product that have different benefits but can not be deemed illegal just because of their distribution choice.
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:55 pm K. Chang(Quote)
No.
Membership is *access* to the product. At best, it’s a “derivative”.
If you sell a vacation / plane ticket / cruise, you sold travel.
You do NOT sell travel in WV. You sold membership that allows (possibly discounted) access to travel.
WV claims to be a “buyer’s club”, with the words “leverage buying power”. Do you know which laws buying clubs are supposed to follow? Or a better question… does WV?
Or perhaps you want to read this case from back in 1993, and see if it sounds similar to WV? In that they are reselling someone’s else’s membership, but most of the cost went to paying commission to people who brought in the most recruits?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/esp/esp7.html
January 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 pm K. Chang(Quote)
You need to read up more on MLM law instead of skimming the FTC website and pick out the parts you like.
Go look up “Webster vs. Omnitrition”, and what MLM lawyers say about “ultimate consumer”… THEY CANNOT BE INSIDE THE COMPANY.
Then ask yourself this simple question: is the ultimate consumer for WV inside or outside the company?
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:00 pm Oz(Quote)
@Dan
Given that World Ventures only sell memberships, new affiliates must recruit if they wish to earn any commissions.
No recruitment = no commissions.
Commissions in World Ventures are not dependent on use of the “product”, only the sale of the membership itself (recruitment).
Ding ding ding, now we’re getting it.
None of which are MLM companies, and are therefore not relevant or comparable.
Yes, it does. If you are selling memberships and earning a commission on the sale of memberships with no retail products or services (tangible or otherwise) being sold, you are in a pyramid scheme. End of story.
Choosing not to recruit does not excuse the fact that if you wish to earn commissions you need to recruit.
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:08 pm K. Chang(Quote)
Ah, heck, I’ll do it for you.
From Grimes and Reese, MLM attorneys, on buying clubs
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/Primer.htm#buying
Same guys, on the Omnitrition case
http://www.mlmlaw.com/saleswatch/omnitrition.html
Got all that?
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:27 pm Dan(Quote)
im wondering why did i even strart in this argument, because lets say i prove you wrong or i get proven wrong nothing is going to happen unless you take your argument to court and shut down the company. so this is all completely pointless.
I admit you guys hold a strong argument, and i understand the fact that according to you the simple fact thet the product itself is not tangible but simply gives you access to discounted travel and other benefits makes its illegal because it is sold by indidviduals and not a travel agency and what mainly makes it illegal is that it is sold by a MLM company.
but i wish to be scammed a couple more times so i can make some extra money go on some more free vacations get another car, and not only that but every single person i reffered to get scammed a couple more times so the can have a couple more cars.
all im saying is that illegal or not, we will all find out when the company gets shut down, as for now im enjoying it to the fullest and so is everyone around me, and since i made the decision to join life has beeen nothing but great, simply put im glad i decided to do this.
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:28 pm Oz(Quote)
So basically you’re just another, “I accept it’s a recruitment scam but as long as I’m getting paid f’em, right?” pyramid scheme participant.
Why am I not surprised.
That’s what you should have opened with, not this garbage about selling memberships not being recruitment. Think of the time we could have saved.
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:41 pm Dan(Quote)
everything said on this post simply doesnt hold much of a purpose, so you couldve saved a lot of people a lot of time by simply saying nothing to begin with, whatever happens is going to happen anyways unless you do something about it.
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:42 pm K. Chang(Quote)
Nope, you’ve misunderstood completely.
NO ULTIMATE CONSUMER = PYRAMID SCHEME.
And the court rules that members that qualify for the comp plan (whether s/he actively participates or not) is IN the company, and thus, NOT ultimate consumer.
Thus WV is very likely a pyramid scheme.
Whether it’s good or bad for you is besides the point.
January 3rd, 2013 at 5:46 pm Oz(Quote)
Ah well, even if it only causes the next World Ventures affiliate to barge in here trying to convince us that up is down and down is up to pause for thought, I think we’ve still achieved something today.
It’s all about information. Your personal financial is irrelevant. And as for not saying anything, I wasn’t about to let your little “selling membership isn’t recruitment” gem go unchallenged.
January 3rd, 2013 at 6:23 pm K. Chang(Quote)
Definitely not to someone who’s hostile to its contents and armed with disinformation and bad explanations.
January 5th, 2013 at 4:28 am Don(Quote)
If you cannot readily and easily sell back a membership, which cannot be done without a lot of grief, it’s not worth getting a membership in the first place.
I got a GRN membership back in 2009 and have never sold a membership as an affiliate and never used the membership. Now, $4,000 later, I’m stuck with something I will probably never use and cannot sell to anyone.
I highly recommend that no one ever get involved with the hype and lies suckers like myself bought in programs like GRN or any other “travel” program.
January 13th, 2013 at 12:25 am Rick(Quote)
I am going to a meeting soon and have a few questions. I have read most of the comments on here but I need more clarification. Here are my questions and concerns.
1. All I want it for is to travel. What will it cost me to do this ?
2. Is it called a membership or a representive?
3. Am I mistaken in what I read? Do you have to travel in pairs or can a single person travel alone?
4. How hard is it to book a trip? If only so many spots are purchased from WV in a resort or a cruise then how hard is it for a person to get that open spot?
5. Is there a limit as to how many trips I can take a year?
6. Does trip discounts include airfare because a true travel agent get’s airline discounts?
7. Because I’m interested in travel only, will I have a yearly fee or will I be required to continually get people in the business (or both)???
Lastly, what is the one important question (that I don’t know to ask) to the person that will be showing me the plan?
January 13th, 2013 at 12:55 pm Oz(Quote)
The travel costs are the same as the membership costs. It’s all one big recruitment driven opportunity.
If you’re in it for the travel there might be better options around. With no retail option World Ventures is an MLM business opportunity as opposed to a straight travel club. They themselves only resell third-party offers, so you might find it cheaper to go through those third-partys directly.
January 14th, 2013 at 11:03 am Ar4a(Quote)
Hei guys!
I just scrolled down here before had a chance to read all comments. I am from Latvia. Worldventures has just started here and some of my friends (not with the highest IQ) are already in. I am getting a bit nervous.
Mr Oz – what patiance u show!)))
January 14th, 2013 at 11:57 am Ar4a(Quote)
So what I think about worldventures:
1. WV is not economically viable- MLM pyramid scheme.
2. VW has sekt based psichological aprouch – they look and sound sick.
3. VW is debiting yr CC monthly without yr approval.
4. All money for memberships and trips goes thru VW accounts.
5. This will end with Large scam, when year 2013/14/15 just before Christmas, VW will transfer all money from their accounts to offshore bank. End of story.
6. Participants of WV are gullible or too young.
7. My poor friends who are in VW has lowered their social standing, but they dont care- they have new friends and stupid hopes.
8. Participants will have extra tax bills for income and criminal cases for illigal entrepreneurship. etc
January 14th, 2013 at 7:10 pm notasheeple(Quote)
Same b.s. from another “company” complete with starry eyed neophytes looking for fast$$.
January 15th, 2013 at 9:34 am Ar4a(Quote)
I just checked compared actual dreamtrip from ROVIA:
http://corp.roviaescapes.com/escapes/greatescapes?pc=1302141&dc=RCC
Amsterdam bilderberg hotel 4 nights/ 5 days
447$ per person per room sharing for two= room for two will cost u- 894USD.
http://www.hotels.nl/amsterdam/jan-luyken/?arrival=2013-02-11&departure=2013-02-16
If i book myself thru hotels.nl it will cost me 545USD. Total minus 350USD or 65% more expensive. WTF?
January 31st, 2013 at 12:19 pm Jay(Quote)
I just want to say thanks to OZ for the valuable information on WV. They almost got me to join. Don’t let them wear you down stay one step above the scam and con-artist that are out there.
Thanks again Ive been sitting here for about an hour just reading you go back and forth shutting every rep that recruited another rep to help them in this argument. They couldn’t even succeed in this. LOL
February 1st, 2013 at 9:01 am doug(Quote)
i joined in december. my folks went south to texas from up here in dakotas, i probably saved them 50 bucks on 2 rooms as they traveled to brownsville. we are all corperate lodging members. 2 of the 3 rooms they used were cheaper on rovia than corperate lodging (which has always had cheap rooms).
my inlaws are going to cancun in march. immediately after i joined, i ran their same trip on travelocity (they booked through a local travel agency). 1100 dollar savings over local travel agency, 800(400 each) over travelocity.
i joined strictly to travel, don’t do much of it, but figure in a year or two, should have some good points built up. also, don’t forget about the extra few dollars saved when ordering online at the online mall. our town has best buy, walgreens and walmart. either 59.00 or 65.00 per month for the fees. i already have 1 person signed up, and should have #2 in the next week or so.
i really can’t complain, if you cannot afford the lose of the inital 199.00 + a few monthly fees until you reach your 4 new members, this is definately not for you. if i loose 200-300 bucks, i guess i will loose it.
i don’t figure on quitting my job, or retiring from this, but i do fully expect to save some money on travel.-
February 1st, 2013 at 10:45 am Oz(Quote)
@doug
Yeah, totally not a recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
February 2nd, 2013 at 2:57 am Sheryl Abel Sears(Quote)
I joined a few years back and never received comission on any of my booked travels. I have had a very hard time reaching anyone to get to the bottom of it.
February 6th, 2013 at 7:18 am Lycos(Quote)
Oz you are to be commended for your patience and clear thinking.
It is unbelievable how greed can defy logic.
DO NOT JOIN WORLD VENTURES IT IS A PYRAMID SCHEME
February 9th, 2013 at 5:59 pm Proboy(Quote)
Oz… Thanks so much for all your help I was looking everywhere for some answer regarding this crazy bs of a business which my kid brother from college wants to join.. And since I’ve been in real business for a while he need my advise on whether to join or not..
I’ve been scheme so many time with so many MLM now I know better so far in counting 10 pyramids so no more and I definitely don’t want my little brother to go down that pass of wasting time.
I call tomorrow and tell him no way Jose… You Ain’t no time for this.
February 19th, 2013 at 8:59 am Ax(Quote)
Thank you Dr.Oz, I accidentally went to one of these presentations (I was lied to).
I knew it was a scam but i have no background knowledge on how to argue with these people. You have given me a lot of information and now i know how to give a legit argument.
I just wanted to add that I was trying to convince two of my friends not to get it, the moderator of the presentation ridiculed me, insulted me, called me names.
It got me really angry and just wanted to share this experience. It felt like a cult man…..
February 19th, 2013 at 2:44 pm littleroundman(Quote)
The reason many HYIP ponzi and endless chain recruiting (pyramid) schemes “feel like a cult” is because they use the same type of methodology and techniques to ensnare their victims
None of it accidentally, by the way.
February 20th, 2013 at 9:39 am Lycos(Quote)
One infallible way to identify pyramid schemes that try to hide their true nature by selling some kind of “product” is the ratio of representatives to external customers.
In any normal business external customers (those who purchase a product without being reps) are far more than the reps, so a ratio of 1:10 is normal and probably on the conservative side.
In scams like this the ratio can be 10:1 or more, i.e. almost everyone who buys a product becomes a rep.
February 21st, 2013 at 5:23 am pam(Quote)
I joined last month- i have no success – no “recruits”. My friends – do not have the money to join – and now – the monthly fees begin.
I was intoxicated when i joined – i remember giving my credit card and thats about it – how can i get out of this and or see what I signed for commitment on my credit card…anyone know??
February 21st, 2013 at 9:41 am Oz(Quote)
If you’re not interested in recruiting people and participating in the pyramid scheme, then it’s probably time to call your credit card company.
February 21st, 2013 at 10:29 am BGF(Quote)
Either way, getting out of the company is extremely easy, if that is what you desire to do.
If you bought the product and also chose to be a representative, which provides you the licensing to market WorldVentures’/Rovia’s product, then you have an easy opportunity to eliminate the monthly payment and benefit from the deeply discounted prices on vacation packages.
If you do desire to take advantage of the opportunity that you have been given, get back with your sponsor and tell he or she that you are their responsibility. As your sponsor, it is their responsibility to help you in any way possible to get your four people to buy the product (which is travel).
And if your sponsor did take advantage of the fact that you were intoxicated, I do apologize on their behalf because that IS NOT how we do business in WorldVentures/Rovia.
Also, if you do wish you withdraw from WorldVentures/Rovia, get back with your sponsor. He/She should be able to instruct you how.
February 21st, 2013 at 11:28 am K. Chang(Quote)
And give the sponsor the chance to talk you out of it? Muahahahahaha.
February 21st, 2013 at 12:33 pm BGF(Quote)
I am not setting you up to have your sponsor talk you out of it. I am not here to talk you into or out of anything Pam. I am just providing you with supported information from an individual that has the credentials to help you in your en-devours with WorldVentures.
Your sponsor doesn’t seem very helpful so if you need any help with getting out or staying in, I can provide the help.
February 24th, 2013 at 1:43 pm J(Quote)
@Oz
I agree with you that the representative side of this company is a pyramid scheme, because the only way you make money is by selling memberships. But, do you think the membership only side of the company is a pyramid scheme?
You’re paying for membership that allows you to use a third party service that can’t be used elsewhere. Exclusive service gives you discounted trips.
If you don’t get a single other person to join, you’re spending $860 for the first year and $660 every year after that on the membership. If using their exclusive booking engine leads you to $860 or more in savings the first year, it’s a good buy.
You could make things easier on yourself and recruit people, but you don’t have to in order to receive some benefit to the program. You just don’t receive the greatest benefit unless you become a rep. So to me, membership side = Costco, Rep side = pyramid.
Love to hear your thoughts. Hopefully you’ll respond to me even though I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
February 24th, 2013 at 2:46 pm Oz(Quote)
There are no buts. This is a review of the World Ventures MLM business opportunity, not third-party travel services.
February 24th, 2013 at 5:27 pm K. Chang(Quote)
Then the whole thing’s illegal, as you can’t be “sorta illegal”, which is like “sorta” dead or “sorta” pregnant.
February 24th, 2013 at 11:25 pm J(Quote)
@Oz
So you have no opinion on the travel side of the company because the review is only for the business opportunity side?
@Chang
I think the reason WV has dodged legal sanctions is because it is “just legal enough.” You can make $20 as a rep by selling a membership.
That $20 isn’t conditional on who the person who bought a membership tells->who they tell->who they tell->etc. That person that buys a membership doesn’t have to recruit anyone, they could just be using the company for wholesale travel.
You’re right though when you say that the greatest business benefit is from recruiting 4, who recruit 4, who recruit 4, blah blah blah.
If you are to be successful within this company (beat the failure rate, which by definition in the article is more than $684 a year), you have to
(1) sell tons of memberships to people who don’t recruit others to reduce their fees and just use the exclusive access to Rovia at face value (implausible, since that would be over 1,200 memberships at $20 a piece), or you have to
(2) screw people over by involving them in becoming a rep, which that side of it cannot be sustained (one of the comments above states that a successful strategy would stick you with recruiting aliens by year 3).
When that side can’t be sustained, I think to myself, what services does their rep fee provide them? Nothing.
Option 1 of being successful with things is unrealistic and option 2 is pyramid scheme. It seems like they’ve stayed out of legal trouble because they have option 1 in their compensation plan. That’s what the review points out as well.
February 24th, 2013 at 11:27 pm Oz(Quote)
On a website called “BehindMLM”? Whodathunkit…
Product value in an MLM opportunity only becomes relevant to me if the product actually has something to do with the business model.
If I can just recruit people, sell them on the income opportunity and earn recruitment commissions – the attached product is irrelevant.
February 25th, 2013 at 5:41 am Lycos(Quote)
There is no travel side of the company.
The travel is handled by a different company.
There re only two “products” sold by WV none of which is travel.
February 25th, 2013 at 6:33 am Burger Palace(Quote)
@Oz, It’s obvious these people are not listening to you. WorldVentures is not a real product. A real product is gym membership, real estate, cellphone service, or even real estate investing.
How does one get paid in WorldVentures? Recruiting others to join. There’s no services being done or products being sold. It’s a illegitimate and quite possible illegal activity to take part in.
If folks are so eager to invest their money for the long haul, then why not invest in some real assets. I’ve read horror story after horror story about WorldVentures and to see that they have no legit product or service to make off of I know not to waste my time on it.
February 25th, 2013 at 3:13 pm Kyle(Quote)
K.Chang- from the first link you posted, if the answer is ‘yes’ to each of the following questions, then it is a “buying club”-
1) Is the organization a corporation?
Partnership?
Unincorporated association?
Other business enterprise?
(2) Is the enterprise organized “for profit”?
(3) Does the enterprise have “members”?
(4) Is the primary purpose of the enterprise to provide benefits to members (i.e., discounted goods or services)?
(5) Do these benefits result from, or are they promoted as stemming from, the cooperative purchases of goods or services?
Maybe I’m way off base here, but does WorldVentures avoid “buying club” status by answering ‘no’ to #2–not organized “for profit”? That may sound ridiculous, however, I believe all the revenue goes towards commissions, so the company itself earns no profits.
The founders, Azcue and Nugent, share the top spot in the company and then one has the left spot and the other the right (with everyone else branching off below them).
Now, if I’m wrong and they are a “buyer’s club” by legal definition, why do they still exist?
February 26th, 2013 at 2:17 am M_Norway(Quote)
You’re right, that sounded ridiculous and constructed. “For profit” and “not for profit” is about something else, about the MAIN purpose of an organisation, not about where the profit ends up.
It makes more sense to test it against point #4.
Here you can answer “no”. The primary purpose of the enterprise is NOT to provide benefits to members, but to provide profit for its organisers.
The business side of it acts only as a disguise for a chain recruitment plan, where the organisers and people close to the top will earn most of the financial gains.
“Why do they still exist?”
They haven’t been shut down yet. And members have continued to join them, so the plan hasn’t collapsed either.
February 26th, 2013 at 4:18 am K. Chang(Quote)
While it is not possible to answer your question without an outright audit of the company’s finances, typically 30-70% of the revenue goes toward commissions, not 100%.
Furthermore, a buyer’s club *can* be for Profit. PriceClub/Costco is one such. The difference is in PRIMARY PURPOSE, not profit, as M_Norway already explained. Furthermore, if they claim non-profit, they are not registered as a non-profit org. Thus, this may just be you trying to figure out an argument FOR them, instead of BY them.
As for why do they still exist? “There are bigger fish to fry” is an often given answer. Police can’t catch every criminal, and so on and so forth.
February 26th, 2013 at 7:50 am Oz(Quote)
Just my 2c:
Registered as one no doubt.
Yes.
Yes.
No. The primary purpose of any MLM income opportunity is to generate commissions.
No. The profits are generated via the sale of memberships to the opportunity itself. Travel is irrelevant as it’s provided by a third-party and not commissionable.
March 12th, 2013 at 6:18 am dagreatemelio(Quote)
Thank you oz, it was extra curious why they offer discounts to people under 25. Assuming it would be easier, and questions wouldnt be asked.
thanks again for saving me from throwing 300$ away and losing friends from recruiting them to this bs. Now im spending my time unrecruiting my friends that have already been victimize by this LEGAL scam
March 24th, 2013 at 2:55 am Tess(Quote)
Why not invest the 50 a month membership fee into a Roth IRA once you hit retirement you can use that money to live on a beautiful island. In the meantime you can travel very cheap to anywhere you want to go. With a little research you can find cheap travel.
Me personally I don’t have the time it takes to convince someone to join. I am a small business owner the only way to succeed is long hours hard work dedication. Don’t fool yourself even Donald trump puts in long hours.
The majority of Americans only have vacation once a year anyways. Reminds me of all that time sharing people are now trying to get rid of.
March 25th, 2013 at 3:35 am Chuck(Quote)
Just curious; If this is by defination a “pyramid scheme”, then why after over seven years in business with most people who’ve signed up either failing and dropping out; why aren’t they shut down by now?
I’m curious how they could have lasted this long if what they’re doing is illegal.
March 25th, 2013 at 8:00 am Oz(Quote)
Law enforcement on pyramid schemes is reactive. World Ventures have been country hopping around for a while now.
A lack of action in no way justifies or proves the legitimacy of the business model, the business model alone defines what World Ventures is, that being an obvious recruitment driven pyramid scheme.
As for illegal and legal, that’s neither here nor there and up to the authorities to determine.
March 27th, 2013 at 2:16 am easyE(Quote)
Wow, yea I joined this company in mid feb after doing all the research,watching all the videos and getting excited about it. I’ve talked to some in my upline about it and try tell me it’s the greatest thing they’ve ever done.
Yet in my world, I’ve done all steps, recruited no one and have lost about $500 so I’m getting out before the loss grows even more. I’ve also had people that know me and trust me scoff me and even quit talking to me because of this.
This is a very cleverly crafted trap. I’m usually of sound mind on these things but it got me
March 29th, 2013 at 3:08 pm Mike(Quote)
They just settled out of court on their lawsuit… And they just recruited my damn sister
http://courtecom.dallascounty.org/pav/ (Ozedit: case number is “dc1109451″)
April 8th, 2013 at 3:46 pm Cheong(Quote)
I heard world venture from my friend.
And I was brought to the presentation one day. I was totally shocked when I saw the buble gum presentation. Where it actually showing travel business involved trillions of USD world wide.
And, so on and on the presentation. I was tempted to join. Maybe because of the presentation itself and excitement about the whole thing. And the slogan as well “Make Living….Living”
I was planned to invest at that point because it looks workable. But I took a few days back home and cool my mind and do some research.
And,here I am, discovered WV is a pyramid scheme…subject to some assumption from my research :-
1. World Venture is selling membership that provide cheap travel packages but they don’t seems to make money from that. Where they earn from? Our membership fees and monthly membership? What I see is they make money from new members.
2. Like one of the guy said (forgive me for not remembering your name) when the market is fully saturated, WV is not gonna get new members that much anymore. How do they sustain those high ranking executive? This is not answered for sure. Monthly membership is good enough? Well, I don’t think so.
3. Those executive representatives are trying to persuade us to join by saying follow our path, we can do it, so does you. But does that works for everyone. I think this is the biggest lie… that’s doesn’t work. It’s like not every one will be able to persuade others to join. I can foresee many end up by losing friends or families…
This 3 basically is just my opinion. It doesn’t 100% right. If you do agree with me please post up. If you don’t, feel free to write up as well.
This is not a debate, but I just wanna know am I close to the truth.
April 8th, 2013 at 10:48 pm Oz(Quote)
Of course they make money from it. It’s an annual fee though so new recruitment is always required (otherwise thouse at the bottom lose money and don’t pay their fees).
Move to a new country (at which point we usually get an influx of “WV is not a scam!” type comments here.
Of course they are. See above.
April 9th, 2013 at 1:10 am K. Chang(Quote)
Read my article on “Travel MLMs”, which explains why they don’t go together.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/genre-analysis-does-mlm-and-travel-make.html
April 19th, 2013 at 12:19 am G. Maurer(Quote)
As someone who actually participated in this I can tell you it is a pyramid scheme (scam). this was in august of 2012.
It is all good until your friend gives you the how to guide for selling it and you realize your “friend” just played you, and you see line for line the statements your “friend” just used to convince you it is a good idea.
April 21st, 2013 at 5:45 am K. Chang(Quote)
But that proves it worked, right?
I see that some fans of this are citing that Ernst and Young’s Young Entrepreneur award picked it as a finalist in 2010 in the Southwest region (one of two dozen or so) “and therefore it can’t POSSIBLY be a scam!”
One simple counter-example: Equinox, No.1 on Inc 500 fast grower and cover of Inc in 1996, closed by FTC 4 years later as pyramid scheme.
May 19th, 2013 at 1:49 am Burger Palace(Quote)
@Oz, It’s obvious these people are not listening to you. WorldVentures is not a real product. A real product is gym membership, real estate, cellphone service, or even real estate investing.
How does one get paid in WorldVentures? Recruiting others to join. There’s no services being done or products being sold. It’s a illegitimate and quite possible illegal activity to take part in.
If folks are so eager to invest their money for the long haul, then why not invest in some real assets. I’ve read horror story after horror story about WorldVentures and to see that they have no legit product or service to make off of I know not to waste my time on it.
@K.Chang, FTC closed down Equinox, and these folks still don’t realize WorldVentures is a pyramid scheme. No legitimate products